| 26 00:00:05 <ShexNivis>aight tnxs : ) | ||
| schestowitz | But they can move the software elsewhere | Jun 26 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Like FreeSUSE | Jun 26 00:00 |
| ShexNivis | I really need to read more about why the novell boycott : S | Jun 26 00:01 |
| schestowitz | http://digg.com/linux_unix/FreeSUSE_A_Fork_of_SUSE_to_Come | Jun 26 00:01 |
| ugufjhfj | what the needs for a "FreeSUSE" ? | Jun 26 00:04 |
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| oiaohm | Suse does have some nice designed tools. | Jun 26 00:06 |
| oiaohm | People are still too much distrobution focused. | Jun 26 00:07 |
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| _Hicham_ | SuSE is really strong with YaST | Jun 26 00:18 |
| schestowitz | You can tell by the squeals what stresses MS right now: ODF, finance, antitrust, .NET/Mono (war over developers) | Jun 26 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Mandriva tried to do the same as SuSE | Jun 26 00:18 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jun 26 00:18 |
| _Goblin | I was impressed with Mandriva | Jun 26 00:18 |
| schestowitz | Madrniva has good admin front ends | Jun 26 00:18 |
| _Goblin | Great for a "family" distro | Jun 26 00:18 |
| _Goblin | imo..of course | Jun 26 00:18 |
| schestowitz | Work too, no? | Jun 26 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | but SchestowitzOS will have a great control center too | Jun 26 00:19 |
| schestowitz | Crossover Linux? No thanks! http://linuxsysconfig.com/2009/06/crossover-linux-no-thanks/ | Jun 26 00:19 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, it's LFS derivative | Jun 26 00:20 |
| _Goblin | I did consider the Crossover/Chrome installation...I resisted. | Jun 26 00:20 |
| schestowitz | You buy transistors at the shop and make your own PC | Jun 26 00:20 |
| _Hicham_ | _Goblin : why bother? | Jun 26 00:21 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a native Chromium for Linux... | Jun 26 00:21 |
| _Goblin | agreed..I didnt...I was a little dubious of beta Chrome....however that fear was unfounded...its very good. | Jun 26 00:21 |
| _Hicham_ | it is hell fast on Linux too | Jun 26 00:22 |
| _Goblin | even written about it on my blog.... | Jun 26 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Doom creator bought by Bethesda < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/24/id_software_sells_to_bethesda/ > | Jun 26 00:22 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin's blog is NSFW. It shows Windows XP. >:-| | Jun 26 00:22 |
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| _Goblin | ? | Jun 26 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Some notes on Fedora and Mono https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-June/msg00158.html | Jun 26 00:23 |
| cmorgan | schestowitz: that linuxsysconfig.com post is a bit misguided. the poster claims that because only some apps run wine isn't useful. the poster also doesn't seem to be aware of the wine project, freely available | Jun 26 00:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] id Purchased by ZeniMax Media http://ping.fm/LpMqQ Effect on Linux...? | Jun 26 00:27 | |
| oiaohm | Pirate bay guys are not getting a retrial. | Jun 26 00:27 |
| _Goblin | doesnt surprise me....Ive had a chance to read some of the evidence against them. | Jun 26 00:27 |
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| schestowitz | oh no, Farrah Fawcett dies at 62 < http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-farrah-fawcett26-2009jun26,0,4388762.story > | Jun 26 00:28 |
| schestowitz | cmorgan: indeed | Jun 26 00:29 |
| _Goblin | whilst the BT advocates and leechers are all busy moaning about the legal remifications of p2p filesharing, they seem blissfully unaware that in respect of the UK (and a downloader) there is no provision in law for the simple act of downloading material from say IRC or newsgroups. The issue is the sharing not the owning...I'd be surprised if a company took a downloader to court for the loss of income from a file off the newsgro | Jun 26 00:29 |
| _Goblin | the reason we have these civil claims and extortionate fines is that the company will argue a large loss of income.... | Jun 26 00:30 |
| schestowitz | They play foolish | Jun 26 00:30 |
| schestowitz | They want to spy on people and pass the cost to SOLVE NOTHING | Jun 26 00:30 |
| tacone | that's like that everywhere | Jun 26 00:30 |
| schestowitz | Had they clogged up the Web people would use HDDs and USBs | Jun 26 00:31 |
| tacone | RIAA uses copyright infringments as an excuse | Jun 26 00:31 |
| schestowitz | Even CD ROMs | Jun 26 00:31 |
| tacone | who downloads automatically shares | Jun 26 00:31 |
| schestowitz | So it won't stop sharing | Jun 26 00:31 |
| ugufjhfj | http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-michael-jackson-dead26-2009jun26,0,2152435.story | Jun 26 00:31 |
| tacone | so they're seen like a kind of black market | Jun 26 00:31 |
| schestowitz | It would just break the Web's privacy (what's left of it) | Jun 26 00:31 |
| _Goblin | the unfortunate evidence that was presented in TPB case though showed they had made money.... | Jun 26 00:31 |
| schestowitz | ugufjhfj: yes, seen it and talked about it earlier | Jun 26 00:31 |
| _Goblin | I think things would have been different if no money had been involved. | Jun 26 00:31 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: they also made Linux available | Jun 26 00:32 |
| schestowitz | The issue is ignoring takedown requets | Jun 26 00:32 |
| schestowitz | *sts | Jun 26 00:32 |
| tacone | so, downloading is never an issue, sharing is. | Jun 26 00:33 |
| _Goblin | yep. | Jun 26 00:33 |
| schestowitz | There are some people want to share or need to find and share | Jun 26 00:33 |
| schestowitz | Like Fedora 11 | Jun 26 00:33 |
| tacone | not because helping the stealing, but because claiming to be the copyright holder | Jun 26 00:33 |
| oiaohm | takedown requests are used by two groups. | Jun 26 00:33 |
| schestowitz | "Sealing"? | Jun 26 00:33 |
| oiaohm | 1 people wanting to protect content. | Jun 26 00:33 |
| oiaohm | 2 anti-virus companies. | Jun 26 00:33 |
| schestowitz | *Stealing"? Can they crack people's PCs and delete the shared files too? :-p | Jun 26 00:33 |
| oiaohm | Puting head in sand and refusing all takedown requests puts end users at risk. | Jun 26 00:34 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck them and their protected content | Jun 26 00:34 |
| schestowitz | "content" | Jun 26 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Shows how much they value art | Jun 26 00:35 |
| schestowitz | "content..." | Jun 26 00:35 |
| _Goblin | although one could argue that DRM is the fault of those who regard IP as anyones. | Jun 26 00:35 |
| _Goblin | if everyone "played the game" then there would be no need for DRM. IMO | Jun 26 00:36 |
| oiaohm | There is another case with another bittorrent group to find out if filtering has to be placed on trackers to block items removed by taken down request being put back up. | Jun 26 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Out come will have no legal cost for the bittorrent group involved. | Jun 26 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Meiga: One of The Best Linux File Sharing Programs http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/dead-simple-file-sharing-with-meiga-linux | Jun 26 00:37 |
| _Goblin | I think even if the RIAA and other are sucessfull, it will simply drive it deeper underground...hell we could even see a return to mail "warez" trading... | Jun 26 00:37 |
| schestowitz | BTW, I don't share files really. I got some legal torrents before | Jun 26 00:37 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: they won't stop sharing | Jun 26 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Listen... | Jun 26 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Clog up the Web | Jun 26 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Use 3-stike too maybe... | Jun 26 00:38 |
| schestowitz | That won't solve anything | Jun 26 00:38 |
| _Goblin | why cant the ISP's simply block the torrent sites? | Jun 26 00:38 |
| schestowitz | People can borrow a USB stick and get the neihbour's stash | Jun 26 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Forcing wares back into the mail system makes it more traceable. | Jun 26 00:38 |
| schestowitz | It's the nature of digital storage that f*s them up | Jun 26 00:38 |
| schestowitz | They need to change biz models | Jun 26 00:38 |
| oiaohm | And slower _Goblin | Jun 26 00:38 |
| oiaohm | So it would be a win _Goblin | Jun 26 00:38 |
| _Goblin | depends on the volume traded... | Jun 26 00:38 |
| _Goblin | 100 DVD's of XVID files.... | Jun 26 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Slower in spreed. | Jun 26 00:39 |
| _Goblin | delivered in two day or so would be alot quicker than most broadband speeds. | Jun 26 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Not slower in volume. | Jun 26 00:39 |
| _Goblin | aj | Jun 26 00:39 |
| _Goblin | ah | Jun 26 00:39 |
| _Goblin | sorry. | Jun 26 00:39 |
| _Goblin | But then the A500 scene never had an issue? | Jun 26 00:39 |
| _Goblin | will the days of the BBS return? | Jun 26 00:40 |
| oiaohm | Slower spreed means less competing with sales aroudn the world. | Jun 26 00:40 |
| _Goblin | like I say, the A500 didnt seem to have a problem with spreading warez... | Jun 26 00:40 |
| oiaohm | Unlikely to see BBS using phone system return. | Jun 26 00:40 |
| oiaohm | We might need wireless BBS | Jun 26 00:40 |
| _Goblin | true | Jun 26 00:40 |
| oiaohm | BBS was just the lead that created the framework for the internet to spreed. | Jun 26 00:41 |
| _Goblin | like I say though, ISP's banning known torrent sites would prevent the "average user" from getting access. | Jun 26 00:41 |
| oiaohm | Its not cheep to run a BBS. | Jun 26 00:41 |
| oiaohm | using wire. | Jun 26 00:41 |
| _Goblin | it could be argued that the "scene" was left alone until the "lamer" got involved and made it mainstream. | Jun 26 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Also is really trackable. | Jun 26 00:42 |
| schestowitz | http://linuxfud.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/the-unix-versus-nt-organization/ "The site authors denounced the claim that the UNIX versus NT Organization was “an anti-Microsoft movement”, stating that “this would be a poor description of what we are about.” We share this sentiment — if Windows is the best option for you, then you have the freedom to choose to use it. " | Jun 26 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Viruses have always spreed more commonaly in software wares than anything else. | Jun 26 00:42 |
| _Goblin | yeah....those brave souls who downloaded a "leaked" Win7 build off BT need a medal...as if WIndows wasnt insecure enough without downloading some dodgy build where you have no idea of its origins | Jun 26 00:43 |
| oiaohm | From virus control point of view I want to see software wares be no more. | Jun 26 00:44 |
| _Goblin | looking at binsearch for a minute, I wonder why it was BT that became the medium of choice.... | Jun 26 00:44 |
| _Goblin | on the odd occasion that I use BT to download a Linux distro, I find the speeds rather poor....its certainly not something I would use out of choice. | Jun 26 00:46 |
| oiaohm | BT was designed to address a problem. | Jun 26 00:46 |
| _Goblin | the NG's on the other hand use all my bandwidth and are blisteringly fast. | Jun 26 00:46 |
| oiaohm | When there are many peers sharing it works well. | Jun 26 00:46 |
| oiaohm | BT intergrated with ftp and http to self seed as needed would be the most productive. | Jun 26 00:47 |
| _Goblin | and agreed, but from the users point of view, they just want the stuff for free and could care less about anything else... | Jun 26 00:47 |
| oiaohm | Since the download from the ftp or http would be well and truly checksumed. | Jun 26 00:48 |
| _Goblin | thats why I say, surely for those people the NG's would be better and its unlikely a downloader could ever be tracked. | Jun 26 00:48 |
| _Goblin | and even if they were, they havent been sharing so a civil action would be rather pointless.. IMHO | Jun 26 00:49 |
| oiaohm | NG ? | Jun 26 00:50 |
| _Goblin | newsgroups. | Jun 26 00:51 |
| _Goblin | sorry. | Jun 26 00:51 |
| oiaohm | newsgroups are the realy old system | Jun 26 00:53 |
| _Goblin | Funny thing is, Virgin Media is apparently a great champion of the anti-piracy cause, yet it offers access to the binaries as part of its package (I believe) | Jun 26 00:53 |
| tacone | thou shalt not criticize da newsgroups | Jun 26 00:53 |
| _Goblin | and in regards to the newsgroups being old, does the consumer of copied material really care about how new or old they are? | Jun 26 00:53 |
| _Goblin | as long as they get their "warez" for free, I'd guess they would not be bothered. | Jun 26 00:54 |
| _Goblin | I mostly hang around on the newsgroups for COLA..however theres some great Amiga PD to be had in the binaries. | Jun 26 00:55 |
| oiaohm | newsgroups were just a minor upgrade from mailing lists. | Jun 26 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the really old tech still works great. | Jun 26 00:56 |
| _Goblin | but with .nzb and par2 they are a pretty effective means of distribution. | Jun 26 00:56 |
| _Goblin | without the concern of RIAA/peers/seeders etc etc | Jun 26 00:56 |
| _Goblin | and ratio's?!?!?! - looking at the private trackers now. | Jun 26 00:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FSFE head steps down. Good job from him, though. http://ping.fm/sFoet | Jun 26 00:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE 4.3 is coming soon: http://ping.fm/pljnj http://ping.fm/P1Cgv | Jun 26 01:02 | |
| tacone | http://www.linuxmasasi.com/ubuntu-mono-tabanli-uygulamalari-artiracak/ | Jun 26 01:02 |
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| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : I am having a weird issue when compiling latest xulrunner | Jun 26 01:26 |
| schestowitz | https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-June/msg00158.html | Jun 26 01:29 |
| schestowitz | "As a Mac user, I received two main recommendations. The first was a free, open-source program that security pros like called KeePass, which was built for Windows but is available for Mac, Linux and BSD if you also download the open-source software platform Mono." http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/how-to-securely-manage-all-your-passwords/ | Jun 26 01:29 |
| schestowitz | http://hicham.iblogger.org/?q=node/1 | Jun 26 01:29 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : thanks for promoting my blog | Jun 26 01:37 |
| schestowitz | I'll mention this tomorrow in a long post about mono | Jun 26 01:37 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna get some sleep now. Long day cause of comes | Jun 26 01:37 |
| _Hicham_ | gn | Jun 26 01:37 |
| schestowitz | I'll go on vacation next week | Jun 26 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | ur welcome if u come to morocco | Jun 26 01:38 |
| tacone | :) | Jun 26 01:38 |
| tacone | gn | Jun 26 01:38 |
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| tessier | How are things in BN land these days? | Jun 26 02:15 |
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| fewa | schestowitz, http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/25/exclusive_animal_rights_activist_jailed_at | Jun 26 03:27 |
| fewa | Andrew Stepanian, an animal rights activist who was jailed at a secretive prison known as a Communication Management Unit, or CMU. Stepanian is believed to be the first prisoner released from a CMU and will talk about his experience there for the first time. He was sentenced to three years along with six other activists for violating a controversial law known as the Animal Enterprise Protection Act. The ACLU has filed a lawsuit challengin | Jun 26 03:27 |
| fewa | g the legality of CMUs. We also speak with Stepanian’s lawyer and a reporter covering the story. | Jun 26 03:27 |
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| tessier | u | Jun 26 06:42 |
| tessier | uh | Jun 26 06:42 |
| tessier | Sure is quiet in here today... | Jun 26 06:42 |
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| Omar871 | Hey guys! Did you hear the news? Michael Jackson's dead! :D | Jun 26 07:36 |
| schestowitz | Hey there. | Jun 26 07:42 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, sad news | Jun 26 07:42 |
| schestowitz | There's family involved | Jun 26 07:42 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: yes, it's quieter because some aggravation and trolls were removed. This will increase signal/noise ratio, hopefully | Jun 26 07:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nathan Myhrvold/Bill Gates Use “Embrace and Extend” Against “Mak[ing] it Easy for People to Do Competitive Operating Systems” http://pi ... | Jun 26 08:02 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] That last link again: (Nathan Myhrvold/Bill Gates Use “Embrace and Extend”) http://ping.fm/77psU | Jun 26 08:07 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good New Review of CentOS 5.3 (Red Hat Clone) http://ping.fm/DMWIX | Jun 26 08:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 2 New Reviews of Ultimate Edition 2.2 (Ubuntu Derivative) http://ping.fm/8N6bU http://ping.fm/M7v07 | Jun 26 08:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at Ubuntu Netbook Remix http://ping.fm/fANId | Jun 26 08:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SheevaPlug with Linux Comes to the UK http://ping.fm/iaqzZ | Jun 26 08:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux on Board of More Printers Now http://ping.fm/9BIsd | Jun 26 08:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Linux Phones Carry on Coming from HTC http://ping.fm/KElJr http://ping.fm/5vdxJ http://ping.fm/23KiE | Jun 26 08:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sub-notebooks with GNU/Linux Cost Just £149.99 http://ping.fm/R4gm1 | Jun 26 08:37 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox 3.5 Preparations and Previews http://ping.fm/kjo0G http://ping.fm/ZKkDA http://ping.fm/Kmmsh | Jun 26 08:52 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eclipse Programming Will Benefit from Galileo http://ping.fm/agfm9 http://ping.fm/tHkS8 | Jun 26 08:57 | |
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| notzed | eclipse is a strange product | Jun 26 08:58 |
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| schestowitz | Do you use it? | Jun 26 08:59 |
| notzed | i've tried to a few times. its kind of ok but something always seems lacking. the thing that most put me off it was the stale plugin registry thing - every time i looked for something to do a specific task, I found a plugin, but it was never finished/outdated/or the site had vanished years ago | Jun 26 09:00 |
| notzed | (or it was proprietary) | Jun 26 09:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Use of Ruby is Up 40% in the US, Says Survey http://bit.ly/W4DNI | Jun 26 09:02 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Guardian Hands is Over to Readers http://ping.fm/JlI0Z , Dutch Newspapers Want Bailout http://ping.fm/nO2iY | Jun 26 09:02 | |
| notzed | if newspapers would start doing their job and providing a voice for citizens interests they might survive. As a platform for delivering marketing material they are rightly doomed. | Jun 26 09:05 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, people needn't cope with it | Jun 26 09:10 |
| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Jun 26 09:11 | |
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| schestowitz | Authors@Google: Christopher Hitchens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD0B-X9LJjs | Jun 26 10:37 |
| schestowitz | Good video | Jun 26 10:37 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Truth About the Insurance Industry http://ping.fm/Vi0Ff | Jun 26 11:02 | |
| schestowitz | UK.gov decides best form of cyber defence is attack http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/25/uk_cyber_security_strategy/ | Jun 26 11:02 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Great Firewall of Australia to block video games unsuitable for people under 15 http://ping.fm/yxNIN | Jun 26 11:07 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Executive Quits, Another Microsoft Executive Penetrates Juniper < http://ping.fm/p3pXW > | Jun 26 11:32 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Antitrust Settlement in Arizona Might Not be ‘Funny Money’ < http://ping.fm/ojMlW > | Jun 26 12:02 | |
| schestowitz | Is there any off the shelf software to block nad traffic? | Jun 26 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Like Bad Bahaviour but not tied to WordPress? | Jun 26 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Bad bots have been scouring one of my sites, draining up all the bandwidth (like 90%+ is junk requests). Is there any software that can filter/block these? | Jun 26 12:04 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: I need to run a mysql command on the DB | Jun 26 12:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Is Microsoft trying to silence @sjvn ? Seems probable. http://ping.fm/dyLv5 | Jun 26 12:37 | |
| ugufjhfj | http://ubuntu-virginia.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=869249 | Jun 26 13:03 |
| schestowitz | That's DaemonFC | Jun 26 13:12 |
| oiaohm | My god ubuntu people never supprise me how much of idiots they can be ugufjhfj | Jun 26 13:14 |
| MinceR | Vista was never really up for consideration, and I'm not about to go buy a copy to find out. | Jun 26 13:14 |
| MinceR | this is so unlike him | Jun 26 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Linux acpi flag is not used by the Linux kernel ugufjhfj | Jun 26 13:15 |
| ugufjhfj | that post is just bullshit? | Jun 26 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Foxcomm did make a ACPI at one point that effected Linux it also was stuffing XP up randomally. | Jun 26 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Take one guess what Linux tells the bios it is. | Jun 26 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: it's not Ubuntu | Jun 26 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Linux reports as something windows to the motherboard. ugufjhfj. Intel is design a new interface system more to the Linux kernel developers liking. Ie report list of features motherboard supports and OS users what it knows. | Jun 26 13:19 |
| schestowitz | It's an anti-Ubuntu chap called DaemonFC (ryan) | Jun 26 13:19 |
| schestowitz | He led to backlash against Linux, I think | Jun 26 13:19 |
| schestowitz | He said that /HE/ was the one making that post about Foxxcon | Jun 26 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Microsoft employs these people to beat the bush, who knows....... | Jun 26 13:20 |
| ThistleWeb | speaking of beating the bush, d'ya think his bruises have healed since he lost his job? :P | Jun 26 13:21 |
| oiaohm | dsdt.dsl 6467: Acquire (MUTE, 0x03E8) bits are the true bug. | Jun 26 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Yes they are causing random crashs on windows. | Jun 26 13:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest Lies and Denials from Mono Advocates, Microsoft < http://ping.fm/A6PZX > | Jun 26 13:22 | |
| oiaohm | There is firmware update for all foxcomm boards with the defective acpi table. | Jun 26 13:22 |
| oiaohm | By the way the defective acpi tables are from MS provided samples. Foxcomm was not to impressed with MS providing tables that even there own OS cannot work correctly with. | Jun 26 13:23 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: re Vista 7, someone tells me: "what's the difference between a full install cd and an upgrade? Answer: change a number in an INF file... investigate this, yet more soap productization by Fester" | Jun 26 13:29 |
| schestowitz | Is this true? | Jun 26 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Could be true. | Jun 26 13:31 |
| oiaohm | It was true for XP. | Jun 26 13:31 |
| oiaohm | http://lwn.net/Articles/291498/ << Linux acpi good read ugufjhfj. Yes Linux truly lies heavly. | Jun 26 13:35 |
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| oiaohm | I just did the opps. Running in a virtual machine and pressed ctrl-alt-backspace | Jun 26 13:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Innovation is Lawsuits by Proxy < http://ping.fm/VOR0f > | Jun 26 14:02 | |
| schestowitz | Is there a wordpress plugin from which to run arbitrary mysql queries? | Jun 26 14:03 |
| schestowitz | I don't have mysqladmin/front end | Jun 26 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Matt's plugin is not effective] | Jun 26 14:05 |
| schestowitz | It only hide coment form. It does not disable comments | Jun 26 14:05 |
| ThistleWeb | apart from phpmyadmin the only other one I know of is emma | Jun 26 14:05 |
| ThistleWeb | emma is a python desktop app btw not a wordpress plugin | Jun 26 14:11 |
| schestowitz | I can't get to it from the CLI | Jun 26 14:11 |
| ThistleWeb | try emma then, it may be in the mandriva repos | Jun 26 14:12 |
| ThistleWeb | it's in the ubuntu ones | Jun 26 14:12 |
| ThistleWeb | http://www.fastflo.de/projects/emma | Jun 26 14:14 |
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| schestowitz | I found a solution: http://ajaydsouza.com/wordpress/plugins/autoclose/ | Jun 26 14:21 |
| schestowitz | Testing it now | Jun 26 14:21 |
| schestowitz | OK | Jun 26 14:22 |
| schestowitz | Seems to work OK | Jun 26 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | Apple sued for $5m http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/26/apple_gift_card_lawsuit/ | Jun 26 14:38 |
| MinceR | lunch money | Jun 26 14:38 |
| schestowitz | How much does liver cost? | Jun 26 14:39 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: from china? donated by willing politcial prisoners? | Jun 26 14:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux: Wiggly windows? That's just the beginning! http://ping.fm/VDv4u | Jun 26 14:42 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: It's not just me drowning in v1agra-type comment spam. It got a LOT worse 3 days ago. | Jun 26 14:42 |
| schestowitz | I closed comment forms older than 5 days | Jun 26 14:42 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: "donated" | Jun 26 14:42 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: like "suicided" | Jun 26 14:42 |
| schestowitz | BT axes 20 jobs at Dabs.com http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/06/26/dabs_bt_job_cuts/ | Jun 26 14:43 |
| ThistleWeb | donated is an oft abused term when used by a regime who like to get their own way | Jun 26 14:43 |
| schestowitz | I never liked Dabs for bad service | Jun 26 14:43 |
| schestowitz | I bought my older PC there | Jun 26 14:43 |
| ThistleWeb | I love dabs.com | Jun 26 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Gates "donates" patents to kids in Africa | Jun 26 14:44 |
| schestowitz | He persuades government to pay for patents from companies he's a major investor in (by the millions) | Jun 26 14:44 |
| schestowitz | *billions | Jun 26 14:44 |
| schestowitz | Spammers swift to exploit Jackson death in email grab < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/26/jackson_death_spam/ > | Jun 26 14:46 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: lemmie guess, selling credit cards? | Jun 26 14:47 |
| schestowitz | Maybe kids | Jun 26 14:47 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 26 14:47 |
| schestowitz | DARPA: Can we have a one-cabinet petaflop supercomputer? < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/26/darpa_supercomputer_slim_size/ > | Jun 26 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Don't really notice spam hae very good filters schestowitz | Jun 26 14:49 |
| schestowitz | I have spam issues in another site which bots are targetting | Jun 26 14:51 |
| schestowitz | And I hear from other people with similar issues today | Jun 26 14:51 |
| schestowitz | It's wasting hours of people's time | Jun 26 14:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Airlines may die. "Oz airline Qantas has cancelled its $3bn order for 15 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, the BBC reports." http://ping.fm/IdeA9 | Jun 26 14:52 | |
| schestowitz | Those Windows zombies are costing maybe billions in damages per day | Jun 26 14:52 |
| schestowitz | admin: "Isnt really much you can do I am afraid, as they are technically genuine requests from lots of IPs so blocking them is very difficult." | Jun 26 14:52 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Can Email Patterns Predict When Companies Are In Trouble? < http://ping.fm/6gaBQ > This is why Comes vs MS exhibits are handy. | Jun 26 14:57 | |
| oiaohm_ | Go read on world war 2 and radio traffic monitoring. | Jun 26 15:01 |
| oiaohm_ | Activitiy can also show signs of trouble. | Jun 26 15:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Michael Jackson's Death Hits Twitterers Pretty Hard < http://ping.fm/wnVP2 > | Jun 26 15:02 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8434 (Prising Doors Open at The Economist) | Jun 26 15:03 |
| schestowitz | PR industry for American occupation in Iraq: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8431 | Jun 26 15:05 |
| schestowitz | CMD keeps track of this, but they lose funds. http://www.prwatch.org/node/8424 If only Groklaw or us actually had ANY funds... | Jun 26 15:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] learn how the healthcare sector fights against your health: http://ping.fm/M4D5O (The Health Care Industry vs. Health Reform) | Jun 26 15:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Russia uses spinners to improve its image < http://ping.fm/VrRuF > (Kremlin Creates Panel to Improve Russia's Image) | Jun 26 15:12 | |
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| schestowitz | Heh. http://www.ubuntu.org.uy/main/?q=node/1394 BN in Ubuntu Uruguay | Jun 26 15:18 |
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| twitter1 | -> (04:21:22 AM) schestowitz: Bad bots have been scouring one of my sites, draining up all the bandwidth (like 90%+ is junk requests). Is there any software that can filter/block these? | Jun 26 15:30 |
| schestowitz | twitter: it's a site with 1GB of b/w | Jun 26 15:30 |
| twitter1 | I've seen these too, for a couple of years. They claim to be Google bots, but I don't think Google searches my IP range (dynamic) | Jun 26 15:30 |
| MinceR | junk requests -- if they're invalid HTTP or something like that, an HTTP proxy could block them | Jun 26 15:30 |
| schestowitz | They are valid requests, from Windows zombies | Jun 26 15:31 |
| schestowitz | I can see user-agent stats | Jun 26 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Stickin' Windows zombies | Jun 26 15:31 |
| MinceR | what do you want to block them by? useragent string? | Jun 26 15:31 |
| twitter1 | They were not like that, they just requested junk files. Stuff no human would be interested in. | Jun 26 15:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I can't block Windows | Jun 26 15:31 |
| MinceR | i know | Jun 26 15:31 |
| twitter1 | I could think of no way to deal with them at the time. | Jun 26 15:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] click click, click click, click click: the sound of my laptop HD and both prospective replacements. bother. 2 more laptops to try to revive. | Jun 26 15:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] (that's why there was no notnews yesterday and may not be one today. and i really wanted a clear run for June. bah.) | Jun 26 15:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz and wikipedia and livejournal. and traffic was apparently spiking on EVERY web 2.0ish site. and SMS. | Jun 26 15:32 | |
| twitter1 | I wanted people and myself to have access to those files, it's why I shared them after all. | Jun 26 15:32 |
| twitter1 | gotta go. bbl | Jun 26 15:32 |
| schestowitz | See what David says | Jun 26 15:32 |
| schestowitz | > @schestowitz and wikipedia and livejournal. and traffic was apparently spiking on EVERY web 2.0ish site. and SMS. | Jun 26 15:32 |
| MinceR | you could replace those files with scripts that ban the requesting host by IP address via hosts.deny or iptables :> | Jun 26 15:32 |
| schestowitz | Joy. The pipes are filled with more MS junk | Jun 26 15:32 |
| schestowitz | Who pays the bills for this? | Jun 26 15:33 |
| oiaohm_ | twitter1 googlebots have very predictable ips. | Jun 26 15:33 |
| twitter1 | everyone. | Jun 26 15:33 |
| twitter1 | bye! | Jun 26 15:33 |
| MinceR | o/ | Jun 26 15:33 |
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| ah, I see. I was still here. | Jun 26 15:34 | |
| I still have to go.... | Jun 26 15:34 | |
| MinceR | :D | Jun 26 15:36 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.framablog.org/index.php/post/2009/06/25/odf-ooxml-support-microsoft-office-guerre-des-formats | Jun 26 15:41 |
| schestowitz | MS shill: "Don't you mean "ODF elephant" in the room? RT @dmahugh (...) Its a new role for me, being the ODF person in the room. #sc34 #openmalaysia" | Jun 26 15:42 |
| schestowitz | Elephant in the room. Invader in Malaysia. Company of crooks... | Jun 26 15:43 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8120324.stm "Millions of people who Googled the star's name were greeted with an error page rather than a list of results." | Jun 26 15:46 |
| schestowitz | Twitter turns to junk..? http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/141154/from/rss09 | Jun 26 15:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why is it that even on the Web a a defense plan is attack of others? http://ping.fm/Ob1s5 | Jun 26 15:52 | |
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| schestowitz | Use your ubuntu as a media center with Moovida < http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/292-use-your-ubuntu-as-a-media-center-with-moovida > | Jun 26 16:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle could use ownership of Java to promote Unbreakable and harm RHEL. JBoss uses Java. | Jun 26 16:17 | |
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| cj | what do you guys think about moonlight on android/the g1? | Jun 26 16:22 |
| cj | http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=442 | Jun 26 16:22 |
| MinceR | it might be illegal :> | Jun 26 16:24 |
| MinceR | "JNIEXPORT jboolean JNICALL Java_our_shit_here_SetSurface" | Jun 26 16:25 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 26 16:25 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many things on the Net are broken today. There's reporting regarding rise in junk traffic (Windows botnets). | Jun 26 17:07 | |
| schestowitz | "It's a sad, horrific story. Homeowner returns to find his house demolished. The demolition company was hired legitimately but there was a mistake and it demolished the wrong house." http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/06/authenticating_1.html | Jun 26 17:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Clear Shuts Down Operation < http://ping.fm/b6kxh > What happens to the data? | Jun 26 17:12 | |
| schestowitz | "Budapest, Hungary, June 23th, 2009 - Artex Studios, Inc.® is proud to announce the immediate availability of Mahjong ZodiacTM for Linux, a funny and colorful casual skill game. It has a very unique 3-matching and mahjong gameplay." http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/11471.html | Jun 26 17:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Glyn to MSJack: " @jackschofield I suppose people think "upgrade" means different things in different contexts" http://ping.fm/lu9sM | Jun 26 17:22 | |
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| cj | MinceR: yeah, nice naming convention, eh? | Jun 26 17:28 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody Update on Munich's GNU/Linux programme, LiMux - by middle 2012 80% of 14,000 computers to be converted | Jun 26 17:37 | |
| schestowitz | MPs Plot Against Transparency - and Lose the Plot http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/06/mps-plot-against-transparency-and-lose.html | Jun 26 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Iran Has Built a Censorship Monster, With Help From Western Tech < http://mashable.com/2009/06/22/iran-censorship-monster/ > | Jun 26 17:39 |
| tessier | schestowitz: What mysql command do you need to run? You should have full access to everything now. | Jun 26 17:41 |
| tessier | schestowitz: You can block the bot by IP with an iptables rule. | Jun 26 17:42 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I got it sorted out | Jun 26 17:42 |
| schestowitz | I use a front end | Jun 26 17:43 |
| tessier | cool | Jun 26 17:43 |
| schestowitz | Something for WordPress | Jun 26 17:43 |
| schestowitz | basically something that mass-closed comments | Jun 26 17:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Michael Jackson dies, apparently http://bit.ly/A31uw | Jun 26 17:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] http://ping.fm/RPjId "The emoting over Steve Jobs' secret liver transplant has clarified, says Douglas Rushkoff, just how childishly dep ... | Jun 26 17:47 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Supermarket suppliers 'helping destroy Amazon rainforest' < http://ping.fm/nuJPQ >[via @glynmoody] | Jun 26 17:52 | |
| schestowitz | NHS busted...? Government ordered to publish reviews of risky IT projects < http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2009/06/22/236526/government-ordered-to-publish-reviews-of-risky-it-projects.htm > | Jun 26 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Dutch Government: Save Newspaper Industry With Internet Access Tax < http://thenextweb.com/2009/06/23/save-newspaper-industry-tax-internet-access/ > | Jun 26 17:54 |
| schestowitz | San Francisco enacts first mandatory composting law in U.S. < http://www.ethicurean.com/2009/06/23/compost-sf/ > | Jun 26 17:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] EU, US act against China on raw material exports < http://ping.fm/NZwSr > Impeding free trade when it suits them. What a farce. | Jun 26 18:02 | |
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| schestowitz | The long tail of blogging is dying < http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/24/charles-arthur-blogging-twitter >. Comeback of microblogging..? | Jun 26 18:05 |
| schestowitz | Hidden Whale Culture Could Be Critical to Species Survival < http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/06/whaleculture/ > | Jun 26 18:08 |
| ThistleWeb | how long d'ya reckon it's gonna be before the Royal Mail want to tax email to make up for their loss in mail revenue? The more peeps send email, the less they have to send snail mail which may or may not get to it's destination, not to mention cost money and be a few days later than sent. | Jun 26 18:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nick Carr Cracked. http://ping.fm/15GIT | Jun 26 18:12 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: it might reduce spam | Jun 26 18:12 |
| schestowitz | Spain tops EU fishing 'overcapacity' ranking < http://www.euractiv.com/en/environment/spain-tops-eu-fishing-overcapacity-ranking/article-183468?Ref=RSS > | Jun 26 18:12 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: but people can still send packets | Jun 26 18:12 |
| schestowitz | Wave, Twitter, IRC, etc. | Jun 26 18:12 |
| schestowitz | Think tank: Costly libel suits are stifling science "Last year I published an article in The Guardian about chiropractors who claim to treat childhood conditions such as asthma, colic and ear infection. My views on that treatment clashed with those of the British Chiropractic Association (BCA) and it threatened to sue me for libel. " | Jun 26 18:13 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, I was just thinking of all the infrastucture the postal service has to cover every home in the country, and how snail mail was the only option, and they were the only provider, so the costs were divided by a lot more peeps | Jun 26 18:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/article6493564.ece The whole "IP" bubble in general harms as much as it helps. People think about how it 'protects' them... until they become the victim. | Jun 26 18:13 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: here in Manc some post boxes are 'shut' | Jun 26 18:14 |
| ThistleWeb | many PO's are closing | Jun 26 18:14 |
| ThistleWeb | local ones | Jun 26 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Think if the days or going to libraries for something like a Wikipedia article... or waiitng for a month for it to arrive by post | Jun 26 18:14 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: also the boxes in the streets, not just offices | Jun 26 18:15 |
| schestowitz | This would ease collection | Jun 26 18:15 |
| ThistleWeb | they were struggling for years anyway, how many PO's did you see which weren't overpriced cornershops with a window and a clerk | Jun 26 18:15 |
| schestowitz | and Windows, too | Jun 26 18:15 |
| ThistleWeb | I understand centralising them more | Jun 26 18:15 |
| schestowitz | The Russian post offices might still be moving to Red Hat | Jun 26 18:15 |
| schestowitz | E-mail spam is a whole big conspiracy of Royal Mail :-p | Jun 26 18:16 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 26 18:16 |
| schestowitz | And Data for All: Why Obama's Geeky New CIO Wants to Put All Gov't Info Online < http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/magazine/17-07/mf_cio > | Jun 26 18:16 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, you can opt out of paper spam but they dont want you to, as they get paid to deliver it knowing it usually goes from your letterbox to the bin without passing your eyeballs, and if everyone opted out then your post would be more expensive | Jun 26 18:17 |
| amarsh04 | I think that my local post office should just be more honest and place a paper recycling bin next to the rubbish bin adjacent to the (more than 1000) post office boxes | Jun 26 18:18 |
| schestowitz | http://wwmm.ch.cam.ac.uk/blogs/murrayrust/?p=2146 (Can we mashup pollution data onto OpenStreetMap in realtime?) I get lots of pollution here | Jun 26 18:18 |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz... are the instruments for measuring pollutants affordable and networkable enough for many people to be connecting them to the internet? | Jun 26 18:19 |
| ThistleWeb | it's an area the internet has destroyed, but we still need the infrastructure for parcels, legal documents etc | Jun 26 18:20 |
| schestowitz | Not for lon | Jun 26 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Not for long | Jun 26 18:21 |
| amarsh04 | post office delivers ebay and amazon.com orders here in .au | Jun 26 18:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.escience.cam.ac.uk/projects/mobiledata/ | Jun 26 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Basically if you live by the road, it's messy | Jun 26 18:22 |
| amarsh04 | if I want a pre-recorded compact disk, I can order it from amazon or similar, through my local retailer, or direct from the artist | Jun 26 18:23 |
| amarsh04 | in 2 of the 3 cases delivery is via the post office | Jun 26 18:23 |
| ThistleWeb | the UK have a separation between the PO (the office you go to buy stamps, renew licences etc) and the state monolopy Royal Mail (the peeps who handle all the mail and deliver it) | Jun 26 18:23 |
| ThistleWeb | there are other companies who do some parts of the mail delivery, but they cherry pick the most profitable areas to conpete against Royal Mail | Jun 26 18:24 |
| amarsh04 | bigger post offices here are run by Australia Post, smaller ones are franchises | Jun 26 18:24 |
| ThistleWeb | the PO's here (at least the local ones) are self employed franchises too | Jun 26 18:26 |
| amarsh04 | in our area 2 post offices remain, 5 franchise post offices were closed (which weren't really viable businesses anyway) | Jun 26 18:26 |
| ThistleWeb | who need to sell all sorts of other stuff to stay in business, poor selection of old shit at yr 3000 prices | Jun 26 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Sarychev Peak Eruption, Kuril Islands < http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=38985 > | Jun 26 18:27 |
| amarsh04 | in .au the official post offices do lots of other bill paying services, passport applications and the like | Jun 26 18:28 |
| ThistleWeb | it's like bus routes, a state monolopy guarantees that every household has a reasonably regular bus service regardless of how remote they are, where a private firm can cherry pick the popular routes and flood those to take customers away | Jun 26 18:28 |
| ThistleWeb | amarsh04: yep same here | Jun 26 18:28 |
| ThistleWeb | they complain when the govt want to move pensions / benefits etc to bank payments because they lose customers | Jun 26 18:28 |
| ThistleWeb | I try to avoid the PO for bill payments, as the banks do it without a charge | Jun 26 18:29 |
| ThistleWeb | if you're a customer of that bank | Jun 26 18:29 |
| amarsh04 | we never had "post office saving accounts"... post offices were agencies of the government owned bank | Jun 26 18:30 |
| amarsh04 | no extra charges for bill payments via post office here. Many people use a bank-affiliated service called BPAY here | Jun 26 18:30 |
| ThistleWeb | my central PO moved into the upstairs of a store, it's queue's used to be real long, now they have 3 less windows and longer queues, but that's progress and efficiency savings for ya | Jun 26 18:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK Government debt: That’ll be £2.2 trillion, please < http://ping.fm/1RNNS > | Jun 26 18:32 | |
| amarsh04 | I should get some sleep... local post office kept the same site but shrunk it to lease out other parts of its site to other shops | Jun 26 18:32 |
| amarsh04 | same counter staff though | Jun 26 18:32 |
| ThistleWeb | when 3 or 4 of the 9 windows were always empty anyway, at least moving to a new spot with less windows gives the impression of them working more efficient even if nothing has really changed | Jun 26 18:32 |
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| yuhong | Good thing I never have read digg, I read slashdot instead. | Jun 26 18:33 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8117915.stm ( 'Oldest musical instrument' found ) | Jun 26 18:33 |
| amarsh04 | I can't think of a post office in our state that requires stairs to access... | Jun 26 18:33 |
| schestowitz | MS apologists to Microsoft's rescue: http://www.itwriting.com/blog/1553-eu-responds-to-questions-on-microsofts-plans-for-windows-7.html | Jun 26 18:34 |
| ThistleWeb | they do have a lift for peeps unable to make the stairs, I doubt they would have gotten the licence without it | Jun 26 18:34 |
| ThistleWeb | they know PO's usual customers are pensioners | Jun 26 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Murdered journo: Russian supreme court orders retrial in Anna Politkovskaya murder case < http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jun/25/anna-politkovskaya-russia-supreme-court-retrial > | Jun 26 18:35 |
| yuhong | BTW, do you know what I am reading on slashdot. | Jun 26 18:35 |
| yuhong | This: http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/26/1422248/Copyfraud-Is-Stealing-the-Public-Domain | Jun 26 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Web filters to censor video games < http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/web-filters-to-censor-video-games-20090625-cxrx.html > | Jun 26 18:37 |
| yuhong | I sometimes go to digg, but that is almost always because it is listed in Google search results. | Jun 26 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Cute whale.. look like a baby dinosaur: Whales Might Be as Much Like People as Apes Are < http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/06/whalepeople/ > | Jun 26 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Digg used to be good | Jun 26 18:41 |
| MinceR | do we think the ACTA makes software patents mandatory? | Jun 26 18:41 |
| yuhong | But I never read it. | Jun 26 18:42 |
| yuhong | But I never really read it. | Jun 26 18:42 |
| yuhong | And I prefer slashdot now anyways. | Jun 26 18:42 |
| yuhong | And recommend slashdot. | Jun 26 18:43 |
| MinceR | i lean towards reddit but i haven't added the feed(s) yet. | Jun 26 18:43 |
| yuhong | I sometimes spend a lot of time on slashdot. | Jun 26 18:43 |
| schestowitz | More Linux for Italian schools. "The pilot should encourage other schools to also increase their use of open source operating systems, office productivity tools and for email." http://www.osor.eu/news/it-italian-government-to-increase-use-of-open-source-in-schools | Jun 26 18:44 |
| yuhong | BTW, on Joel on Software written by a former MS manager, yep his blog is I think famous. | Jun 26 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Was. | Jun 26 18:45 |
| yuhong | And he talks a lot about his previous work at MS, such as this | Jun 26 18:45 |
| ThistleWeb | M$ losing managers in different departments is a two edged sword, sure it's one more hit, but where are they going? Have they really left in spirit? | Jun 26 18:46 |
| yuhong | http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000052.html | Jun 26 18:46 |
| yuhong | About Excel for Windows. | Jun 26 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Financial Support Issues < http://ardour.org/node/2768 > | Jun 26 18:48 |
| yuhong | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/06/26/0652216/Microsoft-Backed-Firm-Says-IBM-Is-Anticompetitive | Jun 26 18:55 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah M$ hate monopolies if it's not theirs | Jun 26 18:55 |
| ThistleWeb | apparently monopolies are bad for consumer choice | Jun 26 18:56 |
| ThistleWeb | *in search and advertising | Jun 26 18:56 |
| ThistleWeb | but not in OS's and office suites | Jun 26 18:57 |
| yuhong | Not just in search and advertising. | Jun 26 18:57 |
| Omar87 | Hi guys! | Jun 26 18:57 |
| ThistleWeb | that was a Microsoft statement | Jun 26 18:57 |
| ThistleWeb | complaining about google | Jun 26 18:57 |
| ThistleWeb | to the DOJ | Jun 26 18:57 |
| Omar87 | Wait a minute: Dana Blankenhorn is a "He"? Not a "She"? | Jun 26 18:58 |
| ThistleWeb | being very selective about which monoplies it means | Jun 26 18:58 |
| yuhong | I mean they are targeting IBM this time. | Jun 26 18:58 |
| ThistleWeb | yep | Jun 26 18:58 |
| yuhong | The first comment on slashdot is BTW | Jun 26 18:58 |
| yuhong | Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! | Jun 26 18:58 |
| yuhong | http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1282815&cid=28480271 | Jun 26 18:59 |
| Omar87 | Guys, don't you find it hilarious, and also quiet disgusting that those who keep yapping about how Mono, .NET and all other M$ crap is "Cool, Good, better than Java... etc." are the same people who blame us for defending our beloved OS, Programming Languages, Frameworks, Programs.. etc.? | Jun 26 19:01 |
| ThistleWeb | it's the old Nixon defense of "ot's not if the Pres does it" | Jun 26 19:01 |
| yuhong | BTW, it would be interesting to compare IBM's OS/360 to MS's WIn32. | Jun 26 19:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] everyone on [insert dead celebrity here]: http://stereotypist.livejournal.com/131545.html | Jun 26 19:02 | |
| yuhong | In terms of lock-in. | Jun 26 19:03 |
| yuhong | And how both IBM and MS guards it. | Jun 26 19:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Cost of Windows: http://ping.fm/6OE6k “spam will cost $140 billion worldwide in 2008, of which $42 billion will be in the United States ... | Jun 26 19:07 | |
| yuhong | It would be interesting to see how the lawsuit would have been perceived if this was happening 20 years ago. | Jun 26 19:16 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] http://ping.fm/aXdJD Linux news getting buried | Jun 26 19:42 | |
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| hmph, lazy reporting from the Inquirer -> But it is also possible that if we start looking for links we should be able to connect suppression of Linux on digg to the assassination of President John Kennedy and the take-over of the White House by lizard people. | Jun 26 19:51 | |
| schestowitz | No, it's trolling | Jun 26 19:51 |
| schestowitz | But the INQ is dying | Jun 26 19:51 |
| It does not take much research to dig up M$'s history of astroturf. | Jun 26 19:51 | |
| schestowitz | Its reporters started moving away | Jun 26 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Editor left, Charlie starter own blog and I heard something about a coming announcement | Jun 26 19:52 |
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| Sad, there were some good ones at the Inquirer. | Jun 26 19:52 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: sometimes the INQ can be good | Jun 26 19:52 |
| schestowitz | I would not discount them | Jun 26 19:52 |
| schestowitz | That's why I read their RSS feed | Jun 26 19:52 |
| schestowitz | twitter: in this case, they did well | Jun 26 19:52 |
| schestowitz | They gave attention and audience to the real problem SJVN raises | Jun 26 19:53 |
| thanks for the link, it's nice to see astroturf stories get more "mainstream" treatment. | Jun 26 19:53 | |
| I think you have done a much better job of exposing M$ abuse. | Jun 26 19:54 | |
| schestowitz | Here's something you don't hear every dau: http://hdtv.biz-news.com/news/en_US/2009/06/25/0012/boxee-extends-to-all-windows-users-adds-apps "While Boxee has been available for Linux computers and Macs, it was only possible to get it for Windows as an invite-only alpha." | Jun 26 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Windows... alpha... last... experimental | Jun 26 19:54 |
| Here's an example of a story that got buried http://slashdot.org/submission/1026729/Intel-Redies-GNULinux-Friendly-ACPI-Replacement | Jun 26 19:54 | |
| It was hot yesterday and it's bombed out today. | Jun 26 19:55 | |
| schestowitz | AstroTurfing is like uber-taboo. The media knows it's there, but it can't really talk about it. | Jun 26 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Same goes for scwag | Jun 26 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Many journos get schwag and keep quiet about it | Jun 26 19:55 |
| that's why blogs like BN are good to read and traditional newspapers are failing. | Jun 26 19:55 | |
| here's a little link for lurkers who might be interested in Slashdot astroturf. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/204737 | Jun 26 19:57 | |
| here's my poison pen collection. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/206959 | Jun 26 19:57 | |
| schestowitz | I was happy to see /. covered the T3 lawsuit an hour or two ago | Jun 26 19:57 |
| schestowitz | It did bother (albeit HARDLY) to mention that MS funds it | Jun 26 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Another SCO | Jun 26 19:58 |
| schestowitz | But like with SCO, the media refuses to give attention to what everyone knows -- that MS fueled it financially | Jun 26 19:58 |
| schestowitz | http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2009/public/content/sponsors | Jun 26 20:02 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] OSCON 2009 has already sold out to Microsoft http://ping.fm/07vfd Microsoft bought a keynote spot, too | Jun 26 20:07 | |
| I wonder where they get the money. Kind of a shame for them to be screwing around with free software conferences while they fire employees. | Jun 26 20:08 | |
| Hint to M$ employees - better find work with people who care. | Jun 26 20:09 | |
| schestowitz | They EEE | Jun 26 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Either way, I'll slam ORLY again tomorrow | Jun 26 20:11 |
| schestowitz | it gets worse every year for O'Reilly. They accept more money and give Microsoft more control over the event. | Jun 26 20:11 |
| "I'm sorry, Bob. We really like your work but it was more important for us to give lots of money to the Open Source moment than it was to pay your salary. Word to the wife and kids, have a great life. " | Jun 26 20:12 | |
| Don't forget Elgen's nice tongue lashing. | Jun 26 20:12 | |
| That kind of caps off the whole "Open Source" thing for me. | Jun 26 20:13 | |
| gotta go, bbl. | Jun 26 20:13 | |
| schestowitz | Ebem Moglen | Jun 26 20:15 |
| schestowitz | *ben | Jun 26 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Elgen sound good too | Jun 26 20:16 |
| schestowitz | But it's like that Mike Elgan MS fan | Jun 26 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Not a nice picture | Jun 26 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Anyhoo, I'll do some daily links. Loads today! | Jun 26 20:16 |
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| yuhong | Yep, they sound so similar that they can be confused. | Jun 26 20:26 |
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| yuhong | Like what happened here. | Jun 26 20:28 |
| yuhong | BTW, on ACPI, have you heard about ACPI WMI? | Jun 26 20:29 |
| tessier | Microsoft-backed T3 argues IBM has unfairly sewn up the mainframe market. | Jun 26 20:30 |
| tessier | WTF? | Jun 26 20:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | tessier: lol thats like the folks at Zune saying Apple has unfairly cornered the MP3 player market | Jun 26 20:32 |
| schestowitz | tessier: there's more to it | Jun 26 20:35 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about it this morning in BN | Jun 26 20:35 |
| yuhong | Though to be honest I don't think O'Reilly will slam Linux or even Mac, so it is actually neutral and don't favor any OS. | Jun 26 20:35 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | yuhong: well its like asking John Madden to report on Soccer | Jun 26 20:36 |
| yuhong | Ars is neutral as well. | Jun 26 20:36 |
| yuhong | Also it is unlikely that O'Reilly will critise IBM or Google either, so again it is neutral. | Jun 26 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Besided the point re OSCON | Jun 26 20:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | yuhong: I hope they stay that way | Jun 26 20:37 |
| schestowitz | *Besides | Jun 26 20:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | I meant Ars | Jun 26 20:37 |
| yuhong | I think it will. | Jun 26 20:37 |
| yuhong | It's system guide has both Windows and Linux listed as OSes and even recommends dual-booting. | Jun 26 20:39 |
| yuhong | I am neutral as well, you know. | Jun 26 20:39 |
| yuhong | I never slam Linux or Mac or Windows. | Jun 26 20:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | yuhong: just the people and the company behind them? | Jun 26 20:39 |
| yuhong | Referring to what | Jun 26 20:40 |
| yuhong | O'Reilly or Ars? | Jun 26 20:41 |
| yuhong | While BN isn't neutral. | Jun 26 20:41 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | yuhong: all the OSs you mentioned | Jun 26 20:41 |
| yuhong | Yes, I don't critise any of them. | Jun 26 20:42 |
| yuhong | But I dot critise MS for their business tactics. | Jun 26 20:43 |
| yuhong | They are awful. | Jun 26 20:43 |
| yuhong | And that probably is a understatement. | Jun 26 20:43 |
| yuhong | My point is that OSCON is neutral, while BN is now. | Jun 26 20:44 |
| yuhong | My point is that OSCON is neutral, while BN is not. | Jun 26 20:44 |
| yuhong | http://www.web2summit.com/web2009/public/schedule/detail/10194 | Jun 26 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | yuhong: haha. | Jun 26 20:46 |
| yuhong | What? | Jun 26 20:47 |
| schestowitz | No, OSCON invites anti-OSS companies to a supposedly OSS conference | Jun 26 20:47 |
| schestowitz | I'll write about it tomorrow | Jun 26 20:47 |
| yuhong | Yes, but they don't critise OSS companies, and that is what I mean by neutral. | Jun 26 20:47 |
| yuhong | BTW, any other anti-OSS companies invited to OSCON? | Jun 26 20:48 |
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| yuhong | For example, MS premotes locking in OSS on non-OSS software, which is dangerous. | Jun 26 20:49 |
| yuhong | FSF has warned about traps like this many times. | Jun 26 20:49 |
| yuhong | Motif, Java (it is now open source, but...) | Jun 26 20:50 |
| yuhong | And I discussed it before. | Jun 26 20:50 |
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| schestowitz | Had Oreilly cared about ethics and not just money, he would decline Microsoft's money | Jun 26 20:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: unfortunately profit margins typically tarnish journalistic integrity | Jun 26 20:56 |
| schestowitz | He's not a journalist but mostly a publisher | Jun 26 20:56 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: but another reason Oreilly doesn't report on it is because he doesn't do articles on mainframes so much | Jun 26 20:56 |
| schestowitz | The issue is the prevelance of reporters who depend on money supply from those whom they cover | Jun 26 20:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Powers Storage http://ping.fm/39mz9 | Jun 26 20:57 | |
| schestowitz | GNU has serious issues with ORLY | Jun 26 20:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: well they get nice kickbacks, and the latest scoops from them if they do submit | Jun 26 20:57 |
| schestowitz | They essentially take RMS' work | Jun 26 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Then they strip off the ethics | Jun 26 20:57 |
| schestowitz | They monetise this work | Jun 26 20:57 |
| schestowitz | And at the same time abolish FSF, GNU, etc., | Jun 26 20:57 |
| schestowitz | I'm trying to figure out an analogy | Jun 26 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Can you think of something in history of science? | Jun 26 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Bricklin is the closest one I can think of -- with the spreadhseet | Jun 26 20:59 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: and what about Lotus Works? | Jun 26 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Whose work did it use? | Jun 26 21:00 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: heres an article where someone defends Bricklin's claim by stat VisiCalc was the first electronic spread sheet software to have electronic based features such as instantly moving to different rows and columns along with automatic calculation. Most seems to be semantics though: http://www.bricklin.com/firstspreadsheetquestion.htm | Jun 26 21:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux 2.6.31 is Already in Testing Mode, Slated for Release in Summer http://ping.fm/d19er | Jun 26 21:02 | |
| schestowitz | Carl_Rover2k12: is he lecturing these days? | Jun 26 21:03 |
| schestowitz | He's friends with PJ | Jun 26 21:03 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | schestowitz: not sure | Jun 26 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft pushes money into his pockets | Jun 26 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Not literally; sponsorships | Jun 26 21:04 |
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| yuhong | Yep, MS is trying to fool people into thinking that they support open source. | Jun 26 21:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment Looking for Developers from Ubuntu Camp http://ping.fm/izR7H | Jun 26 21:07 | |
| yuhong | While making it dependent on proprietary software. | Jun 26 21:07 |
| yuhong | So far, they successfully fooled O'Reilly and SourceForge. | Jun 26 21:08 |
| yuhong | Which is dangerous, as I said before, FSF warned about traps like this many times, including the now open source Java and Motif. | Jun 26 21:09 |
| yuhong | From <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html>: | Jun 26 21:12 |
| yuhong | "That doesn't mean it is a good idea to write the program so that it only runs on Windows. Doing so results in a program that is free software but “trapped” by Windows. " | Jun 26 21:12 |
| schestowitz | "sjvn@schestowitz Broken net? I thought it was just me--well AT&T actually--but I've seeing all kinds of erratic Internet behavior." | Jun 26 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Windows breaks the Web | Jun 26 21:14 |
| schestowitz | I have zombies eating up bandwidth | Jun 26 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Windows zombies hammering on sites I have | Jun 26 21:14 |
| schestowitz | And causing trouble with hosting limits | Jun 26 21:14 |
| yuhong | Well, you are right that Windows is the platform where the majority of malware are currently. | Jun 26 21:14 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: thanks, handy info | Jun 26 21:14 |
| yuhong | But is Linux botnets possible? I think so. | Jun 26 21:15 |
| yuhong | And all malware is ultimately the fault of the author. | Jun 26 21:15 |
| MinceR | windows provides more tools for malware authors to get their code running on a machine | Jun 26 21:16 |
| MinceR | more vulnerabilities | Jun 26 21:16 |
| yuhong | Certainly. | Jun 26 21:16 |
| MinceR | of course, the method that relies on convincing the user to install malware by hand exists on all systems that allow installing software at all. | Jun 26 21:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 20-25 Watts Suffice for Compete GNU/Linux Experience http://ping.fm/Q9fH3 | Jun 26 21:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu GNU/Linux Spreads Quietly, Unlike Marketing-obsessed Companies http://ping.fm/lxsuY | Jun 26 21:17 | |
| yuhong | I remember that BN were writing about the difference between "Windows malware" and "computer malware". | Jun 26 21:17 |
| yuhong | Well, in theory, WIndows, Mac, and Linux malware are all "computer malware". | Jun 26 21:18 |
| yuhong | But yes most malware is for Windows. | Jun 26 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Windows needs repos | Jun 26 21:18 |
| schestowitz | People just downloads bits of junk and execute them by double-clicking | Jun 26 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Linux is well ahead in that regard. it also saves time and catalogs apps | Jun 26 21:19 |
| fewa | security, quality, repeatability | Jun 26 21:20 |
| MinceR | no, windows needs to die | Jun 26 21:20 |
| yuhong | I know about package managers, and yes it makes downloading software less dangerous. | Jun 26 21:20 |
| schestowitz | If I need an app I click the shortcut in my main panel, enter a string lime "rss" or "search" and voila... just tick what you want installed | Jun 26 21:20 |
| fewa | repos are only really possible because of the licensing status of those programs | Jun 26 21:21 |
| MinceR | well, they could work in the gentoo way | Jun 26 21:21 |
| MinceR | (some ebuilds) | Jun 26 21:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] T-Mobile Goes with Linux for Phones http://ping.fm/FHqP2 | Jun 26 21:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] It's has been a long time since I've tweeted anything... | Jun 26 21:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] I'm going to watch a movie now, Went to the beach today, I'm tired, my legs are sore... | Jun 26 21:22 | |
| MinceR | you could tell the package manager to get the package from the official site | Jun 26 21:22 |
| MinceR | and tell it how to install it. | Jun 26 21:22 |
| yuhong | I remember that after the long delays the release of Windows 2000 that thurrott was warning that the days of monolitic OSes are over. | Jun 26 21:22 |
| MinceR | but it would probably be frowned upon and sw vendors would keep changing the location of the package. | Jun 26 21:22 |
| fewa | yuhong, they are | Jun 26 21:22 |
| MinceR | who's thurrott? | Jun 26 21:22 |
| yuhong | Linux really components the OS well with package managers. | Jun 26 21:22 |
| yuhong | Paul thurrott. | Jun 26 21:22 |
| fewa | yuhong, everything its HTTP API, and and distrobuted computing | Jun 26 21:22 |
| schestowitz | MS fan | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Professional fan | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Cheerleader if you like | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Monolithic works for small RT O/S | Jun 26 21:23 |
| fewa | but such a statement is just fluff | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Not for complex system | Jun 26 21:23 |
| yuhong | His Windows SuperSite was once one of my favorite sites to visit, but I don't read him often anymore. | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Look at the size of Linux | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | It's insane to build it like Windows | Jun 26 21:23 |
| yuhong | Linux really components the OS well with package managers. | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | And IR rendering engine likewise | Jun 26 21:23 |
| MinceR | it's insane to build anything like windows | Jun 26 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Rendering engines are now HUGE! | Jun 26 21:23 |
| fewa | remind me how many gigabytes windows 7 is | Jun 26 21:24 |
| schestowitz | How many lines of code is X? | Jun 26 21:24 |
| schestowitz | And how many developers work on it and patch it? BSD, Linux, H-P, IBM, Red Hat, even SCO.. | Jun 26 21:25 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Jun 26 21:25 |
| yuhong | But to be honest Linux 2.2 was delayed as well. | Jun 26 21:25 |
| fewa | ? | Jun 26 21:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Update on Those 300,000 GNU/Linux Sub-notebooks in Uruguay http://ping.fm/uVcEv | Jun 26 21:27 | |
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| schestowitz | yuhong: link? | Jun 26 21:28 |
| yuhong | I am trying to find it, but I remember reading that it was supposed to arrive in 1998, while it ended up releasing around the beginning of 1999, which is not as bad as 2000. | Jun 26 21:29 |
| yuhong | But 2000 had ACPI while 2.2 didn't. | Jun 26 21:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] VirtualBox 3.0 Almost Here, Will Enable DirectX Support from Linux http://ping.fm/SSVnJ | Jun 26 21:32 | |
| MinceR | 2000 also had its windowing system built into the kernel while 2.2 didn't. | Jun 26 21:32 |
| yuhong | Yes. | Jun 26 21:32 |
| MinceR | 2000 also managed files in a broken way in which 2.2 didn't. | Jun 26 21:32 |
| yuhong | Yes. | Jun 26 21:32 |
| yuhong | I often wonder if Linux developers began working on ACPI support at the beginning of 2.1 development, ACPI would have made it into 2.2. | Jun 26 21:33 |
| yuhong | I think drafts of the ACPI spec already existed by the beginning of 2.2 development. | Jun 26 21:34 |
| yuhong | In fact it was finalized around mid-1997, I think. | Jun 26 21:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox 3.5 (the "Ogg Release") Reaches New RC http://ping.fm/guUmj , Mozilla Starts Mozillaca Micro-blog http://ping.fm/zTI53 | Jun 26 21:37 | |
| yuhong | In any case, Linux 2.2 was released at the beginning of 1999, which means that the delays, if it even existed, was not that bad. | Jun 26 21:37 |
| yuhong | But anyway let's go back to MS's use of open source. | Jun 26 21:39 |
| yuhong | Google/IBM/Oracle, in comparison, run proprietary software on top of open source software, which is not as bad. | Jun 26 21:40 |
| yuhong | http://lkml.org/lkml/1999/1/28/135 | Jun 26 21:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] China Embrace Free Software in the Public Sector http://ping.fm/Xn5v0 | Jun 26 21:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desire for GNU/Linux in Austrian Schools http://ping.fm/k6v64 | Jun 26 21:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Victory for Free Software Licensing (MediaMosa)http://ping.fm/CuKrO , WordPress Sticks to GPL http://ping.fm/ehT2y | Jun 26 21:57 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ogg Wins More Support as Solution to Blobs in Web Pages http://ping.fm/nd60G http://ping.fm/lBl9R | Jun 26 22:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Phorm Uses the Same Technique as Iran's Regime to Spy on Users http://ping.fm/UJcQy | Jun 26 22:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Just added myself to the http://wefollow.com twitter directory under: #software #linux #open | Jun 26 22:17 | |
| trmanco | http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1915736 | Jun 26 22:22 |
| trmanco | http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/06/google-chrome-30190x-gets-bett.html | Jun 26 22:24 |
| schestowitz | BLING | Jun 26 22:26 |
| schestowitz | It's just Google, but with background pictures... and sucky results. | Jun 26 22:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Google Chrome 3.0.190.x gets better on Linux, Mac: http://is.gd/1eULR | Jun 26 22:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why MAFIAA Laws Won't Solve a Thing, Only Enforce Expensive Spying http://ping.fm/8rjDL | Jun 26 22:27 | |
| trmanco | BING "It's Google Google Google" | Jun 26 22:28 |
| schestowitz | I never visited bing | Jun 26 22:31 |
| schestowitz | And I'm not going to | Jun 26 22:32 |
| schestowitz | I once saw a toolbar of it in ms.com | Jun 26 22:32 |
| trmanco | http://www.techflash.com/How_a_Microsoft_veteran_learned_to_love_Linux_and_why_it_matters_48542167.html | Jun 26 22:33 |
| trmanco | I did | Jun 26 22:33 |
| trmanco | just to laugh at it | Jun 26 22:33 |
| schestowitz | I sent someone a Google Groups link today | Jun 26 22:33 |
| schestowitz | The trolls wash the c.o.l.a. NG | Jun 26 22:33 |
| trmanco | did you post that to COLA? | Jun 26 22:34 |
| schestowitz | This is good. It shows nervousness | Jun 26 22:34 |
| trmanco | I don't remember | Jun 26 22:34 |
| schestowitz | I posted the above to COLA | Jun 26 22:34 |
| schestowitz | I know the guy. He follows me in Twitter | Jun 26 22:34 |
| trmanco | he does? | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | have the link? | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | I'm downloading his book right now | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | it's free | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | I might read it | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | all | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_64/4964000/4964815/13/print/SoftwareWars.pdf | Jun 26 22:35 |
| trmanco | it was written with OOo 3.0 | Jun 26 22:36 |
| trmanco | :D | Jun 26 22:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] How a Microsoft veteran learned to love Linux, and why it matters: http://is.gd/1eVwf | Jun 26 22:37 | |
| trmanco | " If you enjoyed a free version of this book, and you want to send me a | Jun 26 22:37 |
| trmanco | donation as thanks for my two years of labor, that would be appreciated! | Jun 26 22:37 |
| trmanco | You could purchase a paper copy, or go to keithcu.com and click on the Pay- | Jun 26 22:37 |
| trmanco | Pal button. Any amount donated over $5 will be given to worthy efforts in | Jun 26 22:37 |
| trmanco | free software. If you'd like to contribute money towards a particular area of | Jun 26 22:37 |
| trmanco | free software, but don't know how, I can help! | Jun 26 22:37 |
| trmanco | " | Jun 26 22:37 |
| *_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 26 22:46 | |
| _Goblin | evening all. | Jun 26 22:46 |
| MinceR | hay | Jun 26 22:46 |
| _Goblin | I hope this is going to be a MJ free zone....... | Jun 26 22:46 |
| _Goblin | I think I've just about taken all I can of that story. | Jun 26 22:47 |
| MinceR | he won't be moving around much anymore ;) | Jun 26 22:47 |
| _Goblin | People say "forget the allegations remember him for his music"...I wonder if people will think the same when Paul Gadd passes away.... | Jun 26 22:48 |
| _Goblin | anyway...moving on... | Jun 26 22:48 |
| _Goblin | I wonder when ITV will get the message that Silverlight is not the way to provide their online content. | Jun 26 22:49 |
| _Goblin | since ITV is based on advertising revenue, you would think they would want to include as many viewers as possible... | Jun 26 22:49 |
| _Goblin | The BBC has and to be fair provides a very good online streaming service. | Jun 26 22:50 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: Mary Jo? | Jun 26 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Jun 26 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Michael Jackson | Jun 26 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Haha | Jun 26 22:51 |
| _Goblin | lol | Jun 26 22:51 |
| schestowitz | No, we don't talk about it here | Jun 26 22:51 |
| *jose (n=jose@98.64.49.38) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 26 22:51 | |
| _Goblin | But yes Roy...lets hope its a Mary Jo free zone too. | Jun 26 22:51 |
| schestowitz | After the trolls had left we talked about things that matter | Jun 26 22:51 |
| schestowitz | He's Senor Jose | Jun 26 22:51 |
| jose | hey | Jun 26 22:52 |
| jose | senor | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | What's up/ | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: it is | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | She sold out | Jun 26 22:52 |
| jose | hadn't dropped by for a while... | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Her blog is a Microsoft slut | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | it used to be more balanced | Jun 26 22:52 |
| jose | I wanted to point out a mono comment just written | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Now it's MS PR | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | I point this out every week | Jun 26 22:52 |
| _Goblin | Roy, proof that Microsoft's FOSS solutions are infecting everywhere...... | Jun 26 22:52 |
| jose | also the whole thread is about windows ports | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | It's just Vusta 7 this and that | Jun 26 22:52 |
| jose | great comes articles, btw | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | No critique, no balance | Jun 26 22:52 |
| _Goblin | theres a bar opened up down our road called......Moonlight. | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Same in Seatle P-I | Jun 26 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Boot lickers in the metaphoric sense | Jun 26 22:53 |
| schestowitz | And MS Watch is, well... gone/! | Jun 26 22:53 |
| schestowitz | jose: they invade OSCON again | Jun 26 22:53 |
| schestowitz | With money | Jun 26 22:53 |
| _Goblin | MS Watch.....I did enjoy myself there. | Jun 26 22:53 |
| schestowitz | They buy a keynote stand | Jun 26 22:53 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: they should sue Novell then | Jun 26 22:53 |
| _Goblin | Ill have to snap a photo and stick it on Twitpic | Jun 26 22:54 |
| schestowitz | I'm not even sure whose product Moonlight is | Jun 26 22:54 |
| schestowitz | It's for Microsoft | Jun 26 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Built by Microsoft programmers | Jun 26 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Who receive their paycheck from Microsoft via Novell | Jun 26 22:54 |
| _Goblin | Jo Shields is the head barman...;) | Jun 26 22:54 |
| cmorgan | moonlight is built by novell programmers | Jun 26 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Paid by whom? | Jun 26 22:55 |
| cmorgan | by novell | Jun 26 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Who pays Novell? | Jun 26 22:55 |
| jose | the comment http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-25-009-39-NW-MS-EV-0016 is not evolved. it just ties together a few things inspired largely by recent BN postings | Jun 26 22:55 |
| cmorgan | lots of people, microsoft, their other customers | Jun 26 22:55 |
| MinceR | they have other customers now? | Jun 26 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft voucher customers | Jun 26 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Those that pay MS for software patents | Jun 26 22:55 |
| MinceR | oh. | Jun 26 22:55 |
| _Goblin | who are the "other customers"? | Jun 26 22:55 |
| schestowitz | To buy their 'kosher' mono | Jun 26 22:55 |
| cmorgan | MinceR: i would presume. some of that should be given in their sec filings | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | eg.. | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | >> MSdotnet companies try to move to mono. Microsoft threatens lawsuit (stick) and offers a sweet deal with short-term savings or fully paid executive vacation trips (carrot) to move to the more capable and less risky MSdotnet. Company backs down from a move to the less capable, riskier, and less rewarding mono platform. | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | and | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | >> | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | Tomorrow dotnet patent trolls, who have Linux hooked, keep a steady assault on Linux as necessary (low profile perhaps) so that no major paying dotnet user moves to (mono or to) Linux. | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | and even.. | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | >> Canonical will compete with Novell for Microsoft's attention (again, giving Microsoft the upper hand as the jesters fight for a chance to entertain the King). Short-term (maybe 5 years), they will gain something once they license for the use of mono. Regardless of whether they survive long-term, they will have helped, along with Novell, to screw the wider Linux community (and companies like Red Hat). .. At least this appears to be where Canonical/Ubunt | Jun 26 22:56 |
| jose | u is headed through their newly expressed mono love and adoptions. Related contributions would be getting upstream Debian to shtt all over itself as well. | Jun 26 22:56 |
| cmorgan | jose: yep, its certainly possible. look at what happened to companies considering linux when sco showed up | Jun 26 22:57 |
| schestowitz | jose: good comment | Jun 26 22:57 |
| jose | imagine a world where all apps are mono or dotnet | Jun 26 22:57 |
| _Goblin | oh god... | Jun 26 22:58 |
| jose | microsoft related trolls can blackmail/bribe everyone they care to move over to the safer, better msdotnet | Jun 26 22:58 |
| schestowitz | jose: you know who manage Ubuntu's desktop? | Jun 26 22:58 |
| schestowitz | A Microsoft employee | Jun 26 22:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linkedin.com/in/rickspencer3 | Jun 26 22:58 |
| jose | linux becomes untouchable. | Jun 26 22:58 |
| jose | in many ways | Jun 26 22:58 |
| schestowitz | I don't know what Canonical recruiters were smokin' | Jun 26 22:58 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.26.205) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 26 22:58 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.26.205) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 26 22:59 | |
| schestowitz | jose: that's what they want | Jun 26 22:59 |
| schestowitz | You saw the Gates E-mail re c# | Jun 26 22:59 |
| jose | cmorgan, this goes beyond sco since we are talking about ms's lair.. they have oodles of patents and investments in dotnet (not in linux) | Jun 26 22:59 |
| cmorgan | jose: the same thing may happen with the kernel itself no? | Jun 26 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I should submit this to LinuxTOday | Jun 26 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Just haven't had the time with so many Comes-related tidying up | Jun 26 22:59 |
| cmorgan | jose: if they can rattle the patent cage a little companies tend to hesitate | Jun 26 22:59 |
| jose | schestowitz: yikes | Jun 26 23:00 |
| cmorgan | jose: no one knows what patents they have for .net but i would imagine they have lots of OS related patents too | Jun 26 23:00 |
| _Goblin | Roy, how about we do a BN distro??? | Jun 26 23:00 |
| cmorgan | jose: some of which are likely to conflict with the linux kernel | Jun 26 23:00 |
| jose | is canonical being tricked.. or have they been sold on a vision where they play the role of an important jester? | Jun 26 23:01 |
| jose | cmorgan, dotnet in the kernel.. i don't think so | Jun 26 23:01 |
| cmorgan | jose: no no. i mean MS has tons of patents, over 1k per year | Jun 26 23:01 |
| jose | schestowitz, i submitted one or two of the recent comes but they haven't showed up | Jun 26 23:02 |
| cmorgan | jose: so the certainly have patents on OS related technologies, and its likely that at least one of those is being infringed upon by linux | Jun 26 23:02 |
| jose | carla not around, i wonder who is manning the ship | Jun 26 23:02 |
| jose | _Goblin, anyone can start now working on the design.. the bn wiki can be used for this discussion and planning | Jun 26 23:03 |
| jose | ..for one or more BN distros | Jun 26 23:03 |
| jose | cmorgan, they likely have many many thousands of dotnet patent claims but a very very small number of patents really powerful against other os.. these other patents would cost them much to buy or conceive while the dotnet ones are a cakewalk | Jun 26 23:04 |
| cmorgan | jose: huh? MS has been developing operating systems for 25 years | Jun 26 23:04 |
| jose | they are a business. they want to buy low and see appreciation of assets instead of buying high | Jun 26 23:04 |
| cmorgan | jose: they likely have thousands of patents on OS related technologies | Jun 26 23:04 |
| jose | they cakewalk (the moonwalk) is what fortifies them.. | Jun 26 23:05 |
| jose | it's easy to patent a specialized api rather than a general concept.. while being the first of course | Jun 26 23:05 |
| cmorgan | jose: afaik you can't patent an api | Jun 26 23:06 |
| jose | cmorgan, they can patent every aspect of dotnet. you can copyright the api strings and spec and as well patent the semantics incorporated in the api | Jun 26 23:07 |
| jose | An api can lead to thousands of patent claims | Jun 26 23:07 |
| cmorgan | jose: sure, so people won't copy the exact api strings and that should be fine | Jun 26 23:07 |
| jose | copyright | Jun 26 23:07 |
| cmorgan | jose: but i think you are missing the point that in 25 years of os development they must have loads of os patents | Jun 26 23:07 |
| jose | the patent problem is much deeper and riskier | Jun 26 23:07 |
| jose | os are very old | Jun 26 23:08 |
| cmorgan | jose: theirs is much older than linux | Jun 26 23:08 |
| jose | plus technically anything can be part of the os | Jun 26 23:08 |
| jose | we are talking about avoiding prior art | Jun 26 23:08 |
| cmorgan | jose: i agree | Jun 26 23:08 |
| jose | linux is not an old os | Jun 26 23:08 |
| tessier | I've been using Linux for 15 years... | Jun 26 23:09 |
| jose | ibm likely has many more os patents and prior art then ms.. though it depends on where you draw the os line | Jun 26 23:09 |
| tessier | As far as software goes that is pretty old. Although new versions come out all the time. | Jun 26 23:09 |
| cmorgan | jose: if they've got .net patents that are implementations similar to java, libc etc then those patents aren't going to hold up | Jun 26 23:09 |
| jose | ms copies a lot..once it is proven | Jun 26 23:09 |
| jose | that has been their history | Jun 26 23:09 |
| jose | tessier, os are much older than 15 years | Jun 26 23:09 |
| cmorgan | jose: so you have to consider unique implementations of things in .net, and in any case, you only infringe if you do the same thing | Jun 26 23:09 |
| cmorgan | jose: well, same thing in the same way | Jun 26 23:10 |
| jose | you can patent specifics captured in an api. | Jun 26 23:10 |
| cmorgan | jose: i don't believe so | Jun 26 23:10 |
| jose | i'll give you a link .. i'm working on part 2, btw | Jun 26 23:10 |
| cmorgan | jose: otherwise why would the fsf be ok with the wine project? | Jun 26 23:10 |
| jose | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/04/the-api-trap-part-1/ | Jun 26 23:10 |
| cmorgan | or mingw | Jun 26 23:10 |
| jose | cmorgan, when you copy the api (as does mono) you are doing the same thing | Jun 26 23:11 |
| jose | take a look at that link | Jun 26 23:11 |
| jose | the wine project is a plan b | Jun 26 23:11 |
| jose | you don't see wine being pushed into linux | Jun 26 23:12 |
| cmorgan | jose: that article would be better with citations to lawyers that support the argument | Jun 26 23:12 |
| cmorgan | jose: i've heard many times that an interface is not patentable | Jun 26 23:12 |
| jose | ms' aggressive patent push is of this last decade.. wine covers older stuff | Jun 26 23:12 |
| cmorgan | jose: ianal so i can't really comment | Jun 26 23:12 |
| jose | behavior or a description of a machine or process, insofar as software is patentable, is patentable | Jun 26 23:13 |
| jose | api capture behavior and descriptions | Jun 26 23:13 |
| jose | cmorgan, i do hope software patents will be cut at the knees later this year or next year.. there are great arguments for doing so. | Jun 26 23:14 |
| cmorgan | jose: yeah. at least then it will put mono in the clear :-) | Jun 26 23:14 |
| cmorgan | and wine too | Jun 26 23:15 |
| jose | in part 2 i want to give a more full example.. eventually, i will want the fsf to look at those arguments more closely but I want to do as much legwork as i can first | Jun 26 23:15 |
| jose | and see what rebuttals show up in public discussions | Jun 26 23:15 |
| jose | it would put mono in the clear wrt patents and that would really help | Jun 26 23:16 |
| jose | but contributing to dotnet (see comments I quoted above) helps MonopolyPlatforms. | Jun 26 23:16 |
| cmorgan | yep | Jun 26 23:16 |
| cmorgan | off to dinner, later | Jun 26 23:16 |
| jose | Microsoft could not push as hard to MSdotnet, though. That would be great | Jun 26 23:16 |
| jose | later | Jun 26 23:16 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: let's do | Jun 26 23:18 |
| schestowitz | jose: I've done lots of work on the Wiki yesterday.. more to come | Jun 26 23:19 |
| schestowitz | The Comes area is now a lot tidier | Jun 26 23:19 |
| schestowitz | But we ought to set up indexes for topic | Jun 26 23:19 |
| schestowitz | A lady helps me do the text of the exhibit... she's off to her daughter's wedding now | Jun 26 23:20 |
| trmanco | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Wine_1_1_23_Released?t=26109163#c26109163 | Jun 26 23:20 |
| schestowitz | jose: if you want to do part 2 and 3 of mono-api, that will help. I still have it written down (since February) that you intend to do so. I'll repost that Mono comment tomorrow | Jun 26 23:21 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: "harlowsmonkeys" whom he mentioned is shill "Tim Smith" | Jun 26 23:22 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 26 23:22 | |
| schestowitz | He stalked me in Digg | Jun 26 23:22 |
| schestowitz | He still stalks me in other sites | Jun 26 23:22 |
| schestowitz | And he mod-bombs my accounts | Jun 26 23:23 |
| schestowitz | The comments you point to show that COLA's trolls are still very busy also in Digg (and Slashdot) | Jun 26 23:23 |
| schestowitz | If they are not PR agents they could be MS partners MVPs or something | Jun 26 23:23 |
| trmanco | oh I see | Jun 26 23:24 |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 26 23:24 | |
| yuhong | http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/savannah | Jun 26 23:25 |
| yuhong | Talks about problems with SourceForge, Google Code, and more. | Jun 26 23:25 |
| yuhong | "One additional reason to avoid Sourceforge is that they include advertisements for proprietary software in their mailing lists, so simply using a mailing list on Sourceforge is helping to promote non-free software." | Jun 26 23:27 |
| yuhong | "Google Code refuses to allow projects hosted there to use certain free software li"censes, including the GNU Affero GPL ... arguing that these licenses are insufficiently popular." | Jun 26 23:28 |
| yuhong | "Google Code refuses to allow projects hosted there to use certain free software licenses, including the GNU Affero GPL ... arguing that these licenses are insufficiently popular." | Jun 26 23:28 |
| yuhong | http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono | Jun 26 23:30 |
| jose | schestowitz, my position is that i'll do it if it happens because i always have platefuls of things i would like to do but don't find the time to do | Jun 26 23:30 |
| jose | recently i found motivation and an angle to do a part 2a | Jun 26 23:31 |
| jose | it would be an example.. hypothetical but using terms many could hopefully follow (cats and dogs instead of sw dev jargon and issues) | Jun 26 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Wow. | Jun 26 23:32 |
| schestowitz | RMS finally wrote about Mono., | Jun 26 23:32 |
| jose | part 2b, 2c, etc would involve examples, with some being real ones (but i have to work slowly up to those by going through the mechanics first) | Jun 26 23:32 |
| schestowitz | He's explicitly against it | Jun 26 23:32 |
| jose | btw, part 2 would not involve mono unless i chose it as a sample | Jun 26 23:32 |
| yuhong | Also, what about the first link that talks about problems with SourceForge, Google Code, and more? | Jun 26 23:33 |
| jose | part 3 would cover the microsoft threat..why would dotnet be riskier than say java | Jun 26 23:33 |
| jose | i also thought i might do a part 4 which would be an argument against sw patents in general. | Jun 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | This is massive | Jun 26 23:33 |
| schestowitz | I'l repost it | Jun 26 23:33 |
| yuhong | Also, did you see my first link that talks about problems with SourceForge, Google Code, and more? | Jun 26 23:34 |
| jose | sourceforge is much more likely to be vuln to ms | Jun 26 23:35 |
| jose | they can damage repos | Jun 26 23:36 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/26/stallman-says-no-to-mono/ | Jun 26 23:36 |
| jose | have tremendous amount of business intelligence.. to know who to target and how | Jun 26 23:36 |
| jose | just read the mono write-up by rms.. i think much the same can be said for mono/dotnet as a whole instead of just c# | Jun 26 23:38 |
| yuhong | What about this first one | Jun 26 23:38 |
| yuhong | http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/savannah | Jun 26 23:38 |
| jose | btw, yuhong, talk about fresh news.. that was posted like an hour ago i think | Jun 26 23:38 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jun 26 23:39 | |
| schestowitz | Indeed. | Jun 26 23:39 |
| jose | schestowitz, you are fast as well. | Jun 26 23:39 |
| schestowitz | brb | Jun 26 23:40 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu-16Wz347g | Jun 26 23:41 | |
| jose | yuhong, is "Savane" a typo or how is it related to Savannah? | Jun 26 23:48 |
| jose | did not know it supported git, btw. that is good | Jun 26 23:48 |
| yuhong | Savane is a fork of Savannah software. | Jun 26 23:51 |
| jose | ok | Jun 26 23:51 |
| jose | schestowitz, from your C# arti.. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/24/bill-gates-on-c-sharp/ .. | Jun 26 23:52 |
| jose | >> We have to spend a lot of money to make sure the openness of C# is well understood and that it is accepted at a level that allows our innovations to have traction. | Jun 26 23:52 |
| jose | I suppose what they paid Novell would be considered a lot of money | Jun 26 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Indeed | Jun 26 23:53 |
| *dlmarti has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 26 23:55 | |
| yuhong | That was posted a year ago, BTW, but still good. | Jun 26 23:58 |
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