| schestowitz | " Last modified 2009-06-26 05:43 PM " | Jun 27 00:19 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | "Debian's decision to include Mono in the default installation, for the sake of Tomboy which is an application written in C#, leads the community in a risky direction. It is dangerous to depend on C#, so we need to discourage its use." | Jun 27 00:19 |
| schestowitz | gn | Jun 27 00:20 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] #Bing , anyone use it? After initial hype I haven't seen much..Certainly Microsoft think Bing is great. Then again they thought #Vista was. | Jun 27 01:12 | |
| tessier | ugh. I am bored. | Jun 27 01:14 |
| tessier | Nobody uses Bing. | Jun 27 01:14 |
| tessier | I haven't run into it anywhere except ads on TV. | Jun 27 01:14 |
| tessier | Let MS keep pouring their money down the drain. I'm all for it. | Jun 27 01:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin put it this way: i have found wolframalpha actually useful in practice once, microsoft bob hope 0 times. except as comedy material. | Jun 27 01:17 | |
| ugufjhfj | hehe :) | Jun 27 01:18 |
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| heh. Trolls followed me here and now they change their nicks on Slashdot to match. http://slashdot.org/submission/1026729/Intel-Redies-GNULinux-Friendly-ACPI-Replacement | Jun 27 03:02 | |
| yhong did not get Mr. Gate's memo about making ACPI difficult for GNU/Linux. | Jun 27 03:03 | |
| if that is yuhong. | Jun 27 03:03 | |
| neighborlee | twitter, I heard you took michael's death rough as well sorry to hear , can relate..way too young o_0 | Jun 27 03:05 |
| I don't follow, neighborlee? | Jun 27 03:07 | |
| neighborlee | well I thought for sure roy said you had taken michael jacksons death rather roughly | Jun 27 03:07 |
| neighborlee | must have been someone else ;o-) | Jun 27 03:07 |
| neighborlee | yes it was you he mentioned specifically : <schestowitz> Twitter went bonkers too | Jun 27 03:08 |
| neighborlee | << | Jun 27 03:08 |
| neighborlee | but anyway no matter...it is what it is. | Jun 27 03:08 |
| must be. I don't see a reference to Michael Jackson above besides your own. | Jun 27 03:09 | |
| neighborlee | I just pasted it | Jun 27 03:09 |
| ah, now I see. | Jun 27 03:09 | |
| neighborlee | well roy must have been thinking of someone else ? | Jun 27 03:09 |
| The microblogging service. | Jun 27 03:09 | |
| neighborlee | lol | Jun 27 03:09 |
| Strange stuff. A TV was blaring where I ate. The White House secretary made an official statement. This is one of those reasons I don't have a TV or fool with the microbloging service. | Jun 27 03:11 | |
| I'm not sure how to escape the president of the United States. | Jun 27 03:11 | |
| neighborlee | well..im VERY glad I have a tv at times like this | Jun 27 03:12 |
| neighborlee | to see not just hear about peoples personal responses to such tragedy | Jun 27 03:12 |
| neighborlee | etc. | Jun 27 03:12 |
| To each his own. It is a crime, however, to waste spectrum on such pap. | Jun 27 03:12 | |
| neighborlee | but yeah Im sure it saves you on some bills :) | Jun 27 03:12 |
| Open spectrum would make internet service and all communications virtually free. | Jun 27 03:13 | |
| It would be much better if people interested in the POTUS's official statement about Michael Jackson's death could just visit the president's web site or any other web site that decided to carry such "news" | Jun 27 03:15 | |
| I think I've seen this before, but it's still funny. | Jun 27 03:28 | |
| http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone | Jun 27 03:29 | |
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| *Testtest is now known as zilog | Jun 27 03:46 | |
| Submitting RMS's Mono NoNo admonition to Debian, http://slashdot.org/submission/1028169/Richard-Stallman-says-No-to-Mono | Jun 27 04:06 | |
| An official FSF stand against Mono should take care of the mono threat until M$ goes under and removes the root cause of the problem. | Jun 27 04:08 | |
| zilog | why did the FSF license mono then ? | Jun 27 04:10 |
| Oh my! -> (03:15:12 PM) schestowitz: jose: you know who manage Ubuntu's desktop? | Jun 27 04:11 | |
| zilog | you mean someone who used to work for that "other" company. yes we know | Jun 27 04:12 |
| With all the talent that has been poured into KDE, Knoppix, Mepis, etc, they poached a M$ employee? Insane. | Jun 27 04:12 | |
| no one can license mono but Novel. | Jun 27 04:13 | |
| zilog | im sure there are lots of ex-softies working in FOSS, and lots of ex-FOSS working for MS too. | Jun 27 04:13 |
| zilog | Mono is licensed by the FSF, or at least approved by the FSF, who created the GPL which mono is licensed under. | Jun 27 04:14 |
| RMS is clear about it, zilog. | Jun 27 04:14 | |
| zilog | And I thought FAT was written in C not C# | Jun 27 04:14 |
| you seem to be confuse. try reading him again. | Jun 27 04:15 | |
| zilog | Yes, he is | Jun 27 04:15 |
| ;-) | Jun 27 04:15 | |
| ***twitter ignores zilog | Jun 27 04:15 | |
| zilog | LOL | Jun 27 04:16 |
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| yuhong | BTW, on MS created Windows dependent open source, one common one I know of if WTL. | Jun 27 04:43 |
| yuhong | It is used by Chrome on Windows, for example. | Jun 27 04:43 |
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| schestowitz | Turns out some ORacle people read BN.. | Jun 27 07:05 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.neoteo.com/bill-gates-le-tenia-miedo-a-linux.neo | Jun 27 07:08 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OSCON Sells Out to Convicted Monopolist Microsoft, Again < http://ping.fm/2NpZ5 > | Jun 27 07:42 | |
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| schestowitz | ACLU Explains Why It's Fighting To Protect Info On Anonymous Vegas Newspaper Commenters http://techdirt.com/articles/20090626/0224075370.shtmlhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20090626/0224075370.shtml | Jun 27 08:29 |
| schestowitz | Court Says Anti-Malware Software Maker Immune From Lawsuit From Zango http://techdirt.com/articles/20090626/0236515371.shtml | Jun 27 08:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Cost of Windows Zombies to the Economy Could be Trillions http://ping.fm/vC2fb | Jun 27 08:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google: No kids allowed http://ping.fm/e2PyW | Jun 27 08:37 | |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/04/23/how-to-remove-mono-from-ubuntu-904-jaunty-jackalope/#comments "Apparently the mess left behind by mono when it is purged is a known bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mono/+bug/350715 There are no plans to fix this until karmic, so users will have to delete /usr/lib/mono manually if they want a completely clean system." | Jun 27 09:23 |
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| schestowitz | http://ostatic.com/blog/defective-cds-stall-russias-plan-to-put-foss-in-schools "Since the government's migration plan covered only disk distribution, there are no plans in place to manage the technical aspects of the software installation. As a result, the project has all but come to a halt. A company spokesperson told one European news agency, "This is one of the largest open source software migrations in the world, and this erro | Jun 27 09:35 |
| schestowitz | r is a nightmare."" | Jun 27 09:35 |
| schestowitz | If only there was something to suggest Microsoft caused it ;-) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/11/bundling-of-windows-antitrust-ru/ | Jun 27 09:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Lunch with Microsoft to Talk About ODF, Which it is Attacking < http://ping.fm/nM1ee > | Jun 27 09:37 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7: Disablement as a Business Model < http://ping.fm/TSV5W > | Jun 27 10:12 | |
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| _Hicham_ | Good Morning! | Jun 27 10:34 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Reader’s Article: Mono as a One-way Bridge (to Windows) < http://ping.fm/cNgI1 > | Jun 27 10:42 | |
| schestowitz | "glynmoody: re "Lunch with MS": I'm meeting up with them - not for lunch - to argue about OOXML - with Richard Steele as the audience, to open his eyes" | Jun 27 10:44 |
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| dsmith_ | Thank you for all your work, your website is always enlightening | Jun 27 11:24 |
| dsmith_ | :) | Jun 27 11:24 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] T3 Receives Millions from “Unnamed Entity” After Microsoft Investment, to Attack GNU/Linux on Mainframes http://ping.fm/kOoBU | Jun 27 11:27 | |
| schestowitz | dsmith_: thanks, glad to hear | Jun 27 11:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #mocknblock @trekkie_shop twitterspamming violates my prime directive | Jun 27 11:32 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] Its total silence here..... the PCs making the noise.... How many times should they be told.....SWITCH OFF UR PC !!!!!! | Jun 27 11:37 | |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 27 12:11 |
| schestowitz | "I wonder if Stallman read this?: http://slated.org/why_dotgnu_is_wrong " | Jun 27 12:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] I love pointers .. :P | Jun 27 12:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO “Wants to Sue Linux Users Some More” After Another Mysterious Cash Injection < http://ping.fm/E19Ar > | Jun 27 12:22 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: Novell Still Applying for Software Patents (and Other Patent News) < http://ping.fm/iyl5W > | Jun 27 13:27 | |
| trmanco | "This is a serious danger, and only fools would ignore it until the day it actually happens. " | Jun 27 13:40 |
| trmanco | hahaha | Jun 27 13:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Why free software shouldn't depend on #Mono or C#: http://is.gd/1g1i3 | Jun 27 13:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] "This is a serious danger, and only fools would ignore it until the day it actually happens." | Jun 27 13:42 | |
| trmanco | "We should systematically arrange to depend on the free C# implementations as little as possible. In other words, we should discourage people from writing programs in C#. Therefore, we should not include C# implementations in the default installation of GNU/Linux distributions, and we should distribute and recommend non-C# applications rather than comparable C# applications whenever possible." | Jun 27 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Aye | Jun 27 13:44 |
| schestowitz | This will kick of a discussion on Monday | Jun 27 13:44 |
| schestowitz | Who has the last laugh? | Jun 27 13:44 |
| schestowitz | I told RMS about gnote | Jun 27 13:45 |
| trmanco | I wonder if there is a translation on this | Jun 27 13:45 |
| trmanco | or if he will mind me/other translate this into other languages | Jun 27 13:45 |
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| _Hicham_ | no one is this room | Jun 27 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | so quiet | Jun 27 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : r u here? | Jun 27 13:47 |
| trmanco | you should of came in some minutes earlier | Jun 27 13:47 |
| trmanco | :-p | Jun 27 13:47 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, http://is.gd/1g1i3 | Jun 27 13:47 |
| _Hicham_ | was it a troll discussion? | Jun 27 13:47 |
| trmanco | no troll discussion | Jun 27 13:47 |
| trmanco | that a fsf link | Jun 27 13:48 |
| trmanco | that's | Jun 27 13:48 |
| _Hicham_ | I completely agree with RMS point of view | Jun 27 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | tomboy is getting banned | Jun 27 13:49 |
| ugufjhfj | ::) | Jun 27 13:50 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes | Jun 27 13:53 |
| schestowitz | I'm always here | Jun 27 13:53 |
| schestowitz | We just don't have noise-makers | Jun 27 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Poor Novell | Jun 27 13:54 |
| schestowitz | The Novell trolls already run to Linus | Jun 27 13:54 |
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| schestowitz | "eet".. | Jun 27 13:54 |
| _Hicham_1 | schestowitz-sharp : C# bindings for libschestowitz | Jun 27 13:56 |
| ugufjhfj | lol | Jun 27 13:56 |
| schestowitz | They are deprecated | Jun 27 13:58 |
| trmanco | lol | Jun 27 13:59 |
| _Hicham_1 | schestowitz : DaemonFC is still banned? | Jun 27 13:59 |
| MinceR | as he should be | Jun 27 14:00 |
| zilog | yes, we would not want anyone to disagree here for sure.. | Jun 27 14:01 |
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| MinceR | what he did wasn't just "disagreeing" | Jun 27 14:02 |
| _Hicham_1 | MinceR : DaemonFC is a gentle creature | Jun 27 14:08 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 27 14:08 |
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| *schestowitz think zilog is Mutex | Jun 27 14:13 | |
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| Eruaran | hello | Jun 27 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, what's up? | Jun 27 14:21 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] Requesting an invite for Tweetboard Alpha (http://tweetboard.com) by @140ware, for my site: http://ReplaceWithYourURL.com | Jun 27 14:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] Requesting an invite for Tweetboard Alpha (http://tweetboard.com) by @140ware, for my site: http://bit.ly/nrhEw | Jun 27 14:32 | |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: what to do about mononono.rpm? | Jun 27 14:53 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : it is on my repo | Jun 27 14:53 |
| schestowitz | zilog is _Mutex_ by the way. Same IP domain, same type of trolling. | Jun 27 14:53 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : http://hicham.iblogger.org/linux/fedora/releases/11/Everything/i386/os/Packages/mononono-0.0.1-1.fc11.noarch.rpm | Jun 27 14:54 |
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| _Hicham_ | wow | Jun 27 14:55 |
| _Hicham_ | where might he be from schestowitz ? | Jun 27 14:55 |
| schestowitz | Aussie | Jun 27 14:57 |
| schestowitz | And Linsux | Jun 27 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Give him about 5 hours... to think of a new username :-D | Jun 27 14:57 |
| _Hicham_ | he is really sick | Jun 27 14:58 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: summer it here | Jun 27 14:58 |
| schestowitz | So there is not much news happening to talk about | Jun 27 14:58 |
| _Hicham_ | is it hot in the UK? | Jun 27 14:59 |
| schestowitz | I'll probably just take a break | Jun 27 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Yes, very hot here | Jun 27 14:59 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/woutervugt/status/2357647792 | Jun 27 14:59 |
| schestowitz | The MSFTers stalk on us in a way | Jun 27 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does not take criticism too well | Jun 27 15:00 |
| _Hicham_ | are u gonna take a vacation? | Jun 27 15:01 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nandanator] Not gyming for a week :( | Jun 27 15:02 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I'll still be around | Jun 27 15:04 |
| schestowitz | I finished all important things | Jun 27 15:04 |
| schestowitz | I want to get Comes done properly | Jun 27 15:04 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : is it true that Novell is gonna sell itself? | Jun 27 15:05 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @wordpresspt: Sondagem "prépreliminar": #wordcamp-pt ? fazemos ou não? Quem viria? Por favor RT. Obrigado | Jun 27 16:02 | |
| schestowitz | bbl | Jun 27 16:11 |
| MSFT stalker log, "The Troll Zoo" updated. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/204737 | Jun 27 16:13 | |
| I included the BN reference to PJ and other Slashdot trolling evidence. Very nice stuff. | Jun 27 16:15 | |
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| ha ha, -> The site authors denounced the claim that the UNIX versus NT Organization was “an anti-Microsoft movement” | Jun 27 16:23 | |
| Reality is anti-Microsoft | Jun 27 16:24 | |
| This Slashdot submission is hot now. http://slashdot.org/submission/1028169/Richard-Stallman-says-No-to-Mono | Jun 27 16:26 | |
| Let's see if the astroturfers bury it because RMS's No to Mono is damaging to Mono, or if they elevate it because it FUDs Debian. Such FUD, is after all, a reason for Mono. Ah, the dilemma for them. They might have to ask Ballmer himself for the wrong answer. | Jun 27 16:29 | |
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| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jun/25/windows7-uk-prices "Brooks says it will offer buyers the option to pick up a disc with IE8 and Windows Live Essentials (Mail, Messenger etc) "at no cost at retail"." | Jun 27 16:35 |
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| the_mad_hatter | Roy, 2007 article that considers Bill Gates a "Robber Barron" | Jun 27 16:38 |
| the_mad_hatter | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/27/how_to_copyright_michelangelo/page3.html | Jun 27 16:38 |
| _Hicham_ | Bill Gates is a friend of Linux | Jun 27 16:38 |
| the_mad_hatter | Mentions Corbis, Gates Image company that is attempting to become a monopoly image source. | Jun 27 16:38 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, :P | Jun 27 16:39 |
| the_mad_hatter | see you later | Jun 27 16:39 |
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| _Hicham_ | he even thinks of developing linux programs | Jun 27 16:39 |
| fewa | BillG founded corbis before he was rich | Jun 27 16:39 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, hey your website is acting oddly | Jun 27 16:39 |
| _Hicham_ | neighborlee : in which way? | Jun 27 16:39 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, if yu type in base url and try to then goto linux blah..it takes you to a. rather odd website..trys to sell you virus software, rather aggressively :) | Jun 27 16:40 |
| neighborlee | i trieed to open the rpm ,,I never could get a save as for file so I tried to go there manually..no dice. | Jun 27 16:40 |
| _Hicham_ | http://hicham.iblogger.org/linux/fedora/releases/11/Everything/i386/os/Packages/hicham-release-1-1.fc11.noarch.rpm | Jun 27 16:41 |
| _Hicham_ | this link doesn't work for u? | Jun 27 16:41 |
| fewa | Its copytheft | Jun 27 16:42 |
| fewa | the reapproiation of public domain works | Jun 27 16:42 |
| fewa | its criminal | Jun 27 16:42 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-196-62.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 16:44 | |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : what do u mean? | Jun 27 16:44 |
| fewa | the claiming of copyright on public domain works | Jun 27 16:44 |
| fewa | publishers do it, apparently corbis does it | Jun 27 16:44 |
| Bill Gates was always rich, fewa | Jun 27 16:44 | |
| fewa | once something enters the public domain it is theft to claim copyright over it | Jun 27 16:45 |
| fewa | its defrauding the public | Jun 27 16:46 |
| fewa | before everyone else at microsoft got super-rich | Jun 27 16:47 |
| I noticed something funny this morning. Thanks to Konqueror's VI motion commands and trackpoint, I spend a lot of time with my laptop in the supposedly impossible "one hand, on knee position" see here. http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=stock_photos | Jun 27 16:48 | |
| I get a of reading done with my laptop on my chest in bed. | Jun 27 16:49 | |
| Yeah, I have to drop it down to my knee to type. | Jun 27 16:50 | |
| trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5lOg5XIhqc | Jun 27 17:30 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: nice, I'll put that in daily links as embed | Jun 27 18:21 |
| schestowitz | twitter: indeed, Gates was born with a silver spoon in his mouth | Jun 27 18:22 |
| schestowitz | But people like heroes. I wonder if Jobs too was from affluent background. MJ wasn't for example. | Jun 27 18:22 |
| schestowitz | "lalala" is a Novell trolls (since 2007), you fed it. | Jun 27 18:22 |
| _Hicham_ | vive schestowitz | Jun 27 18:26 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: was monono tested sufficiently? | Jun 27 18:26 |
| schestowitz | We should put rpms and debs up in BN | Jun 27 18:26 |
| _Hicham_ | no, I had no feedback officially | Jun 27 18:26 |
| schestowitz | But I worry some might break some people's install, that's why I don't trust it yet | Jun 27 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Columbia Pictures Brings You "Facebook: The Movie" < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/06/24/columbia-pictures-brings-you-facebook-the-movie > | Jun 27 18:26 |
| _Hicham_ | just two people from the channel | Jun 27 18:27 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, it worked fine in fedora 11 at least | Jun 27 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Now we can add "endorsed by RMS" to mononono | Jun 27 18:27 |
| _Hicham_ | who tested it and said it was successful | Jun 27 18:27 |
| _Hicham_ | neighborlee tested it | Jun 27 18:27 |
| schestowitz | pkg: mononono.rpm - blessed by St. IGNUcius | Jun 27 18:27 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, we sorta already had that..this is certainly a nice addition :) | Jun 27 18:27 |
| schestowitz | !fsf rms warning about !debian and others depending on Mono: http://www.fsf.org/news/dont-depend-on-mono http://identi.ca/notice/5778840 | Jun 27 18:28 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I didn't put any mono package on my repo | Jun 27 18:29 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/5775889 | Jun 27 18:29 |
| _Hicham_ | should I start by schestowitz.exe? | Jun 27 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Hitchamware International software repos for libre lifestyle | Jun 27 18:29 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it needs BN.DLL | Jun 27 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Ask MigDLL de .EXEza | Jun 27 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Miguel: Windows hackers | Jun 27 18:30 |
| schestowitz | "Got a bad Registry..? Call Miguel, he'll fix it right UP!" | Jun 27 18:31 |
| schestowitz | "Some quality c# code... wallllla!" | Jun 27 18:31 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, im not in linux at this moment.so no doubt that explains the problem ...I was going to save to HD here and grab it later is al | Jun 27 18:31 |
| neighborlee | all | Jun 27 18:31 |
| _Hicham_ | no rush neighborlee | Jun 27 18:32 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: http://www.topix.net/topstories/iran | Jun 27 18:32 |
| schestowitz | CNN['news' | Jun 27 18:33 |
| schestowitz | http://cnnwire.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/27/ahmadinejad-zings-obama-as-critics-assail-iran/ | Jun 27 18:33 |
| schestowitz | No bias here. It's CNN | Jun 27 18:33 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, yes I heard...obama getting abit tougher,but then since he hasn't alienated anyone like bush did, this wil be ok ;) | Jun 27 18:33 |
| neighborlee | schestowitz, exactly.. | Jun 27 18:33 |
| schestowitz | neighborlee: not OBAMAA's fault | Jun 27 18:33 |
| schestowitz | He can be deceived by the Pentt4gon | Jun 27 18:34 |
| neighborlee | you misunderstand my point ;) | Jun 27 18:34 |
| _Hicham_ | they will just bring up another war in the middle-east | Jun 27 18:34 |
| neighborlee | he's getting tougher on deinejad.. | Jun 27 18:34 |
| _Hicham_ | fucking US strategy | Jun 27 18:34 |
| neighborlee | not anymore | Jun 27 18:34 |
| neighborlee | obama isnt a war type dude | Jun 27 18:35 |
| schestowitz | They could tell Obama that Iran is always a greater risk than Puerto Rico :-p | Jun 27 18:35 |
| neighborlee | well we can thank our lucky stars obama has a 'brain' | Jun 27 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Public support will be lacking | Jun 27 18:35 |
| _Hicham_ | if I was Ahmadi Najad, I would have expulsed every US citizen from Iran | Jun 27 18:35 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: won't happen, don't worry | Jun 27 18:35 |
| schestowitz | They'd need to dramatise too much to 'buy' a war from the public | Jun 27 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | because everyone there is suspicious | Jun 27 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | the CIA is doing its job | Jun 27 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Like 10 times more than Iraq | Jun 27 18:36 |
| neighborlee | _Hicham_, he's under a great deal of worldwide pressure now..his hand is very limited | Jun 27 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Nuclear attack with 4 minutes, not 40 (!!) ;-) | Jun 27 18:36 |
| schestowitz | =10 times more dangerous | Jun 27 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | the US can't afford a war alone | Jun 27 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | they need other countries help | Jun 27 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | like the UK | Jun 27 18:36 |
| neighborlee | thats why obama is smart..we have 'allies' | Jun 27 18:36 |
| neighborlee | unlike during bush admin ;) | Jun 27 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | they need schestowitz army | Jun 27 18:37 |
| neighborlee | lol | Jun 27 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Is Gates out now? | Jun 27 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Paul Gates was it? | Jun 27 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Can't recall his name.. | Jun 27 18:37 |
| _Hicham_ | General Schestowitz is gonna invade the world | Jun 27 18:37 |
| _Hicham_ | he is gonna take over the planet | Jun 27 18:37 |
| neighborlee | too late | Jun 27 18:37 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: my army fights with dumbbells | Jun 27 18:37 |
| ThistleWeb | bush did have allies, from all sorts of little tinpot countries who signed up to send a few goats for the war effort | Jun 27 18:37 |
| neighborlee | old news | Jun 27 18:37 |
| neighborlee | :L) | Jun 27 18:37 |
| neighborlee | ThistleWeb, LOL | Jun 27 18:38 |
| ThistleWeb | they all count | Jun 27 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Cannon fodder | Jun 27 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Like when the US fought the Sovier | Jun 27 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Like when the US fought the Soviets | Jun 27 18:38 |
| schestowitz | And recruited Afghans | Jun 27 18:38 |
| ThistleWeb | of course, another warm puppet "world leader" on the podium nodding at Bush's plan for the cameras is even more valuable | Jun 27 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | the US used Saddam as an agent also | Jun 27 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | Osama Bin Laden was an Agent also | Jun 27 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | frankly, I don't respect those | Jun 27 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | and I don't consider them as being muslims | Jun 27 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Thumbs up to Red Hat . http://www.marketnewsvideo.com/?id=200906BigLosers062509&mv=1 "Revenue increased 11% over the same quarter last year, while subscription revenue was up 14%. The company earned 10 cents per share, up from 8 cents in the same quarter last year." | Jun 27 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat >> Green Berets | Jun 27 18:40 |
| neighborlee | kewl | Jun 27 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft=software guerrilla | Jun 27 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : what do u prefer? RedHat way or Debian way? | Jun 27 18:40 |
| schestowitz | "I'm a huge fan of guerrilla marketing." --Joe Wilcox, MS Watch | Jun 27 18:41 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: both work perfectly for me | Jun 27 18:41 |
| schestowitz | This machine has both | Jun 27 18:41 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : and what is profitable? | Jun 27 18:41 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the profitable way? | Jun 27 18:41 |
| schestowitz | For packaging? | Jun 27 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Jun 27 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | who makes money the most | Jun 27 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Jun 27 18:42 |
| schestowitz | From what? | Jun 27 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | from open source | Jun 27 18:46 |
| _Hicham_ | SPI doesn't make enough money as RedHat | Jun 27 18:46 |
| schestowitz | UK climate change funding cut by 25% < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/26/hadley_centre_for_climate_change_budget_cut_mod_funding/ > | Jun 27 18:47 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: fair question, here's my take; | Jun 27 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Like in music, there's no scarcity | Jun 27 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Not in production and ALSO not inditribution | Jun 27 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | Printing 0s and 1s is not hard | Jun 27 18:48 |
| schestowitz | But distribution changed with broadband | Jun 27 18:48 |
| schestowitz | The same issue affects software | Jun 27 18:48 |
| schestowitz | So the whole notion of knowledge changes | Jun 27 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Many newspapers already die and many more will die. | Jun 27 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Things like YouTube will grow and CD sales will decline | Jun 27 18:49 |
| schestowitz | DRM won't catch on (too much hassle, high cost) and more artists will get their share | Jun 27 18:49 |
| schestowitz | No next "King of Pop" | Jun 27 18:49 |
| schestowitz | No next "software giant" | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | Google is not a software giant | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | It's a service | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | It's a Web site, essentially | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | You can't buy Google CDs at the sotre | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | You can, however, 'buy' your music at YouTube | Jun 27 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | the problem is that Debian and RedHat have the same policy | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | You can also download programs from repos or sourceforge | Jun 27 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | both focus on stability | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | Or you can run some over the nwtwork | Jun 27 18:50 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat makes money from being the repair guy | Jun 27 18:51 |
| schestowitz | And from giving patches | Jun 27 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | and Debian just from Donations | Jun 27 18:51 |
| schestowitz | Yes, they are stable | Jun 27 18:51 |
| schestowitz | BN runs on Red Hat clone | Jun 27 18:51 |
| schestowitz | Up for 23 days now | Jun 27 18:51 |
| schestowitz | Despite DDoS attacks | Jun 27 18:51 |
| schestowitz | Debian opens doors to support business | Jun 27 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Like HP | Jun 27 18:52 |
| schestowitz | HP makes like $100ml/year from Debian IIRC | Jun 27 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Jun 27 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | huge number | Jun 27 18:52 |
| MinceR | there's android though | Jun 27 18:52 |
| MinceR | google might be aiming for being a sw giant | Jun 27 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Good point | Jun 27 18:53 |
| schestowitz | It escaped me mind. They upize to PCs now | Jun 27 18:54 |
| schestowitz | *up-size | Jun 27 18:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Android code goes native < http://ping.fm/YmXXH > | Jun 27 18:57 | |
| schestowitz | Forgers on Twitter (what a mess): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8120891.stm (Jackson Twitter not me - Miliband) | Jun 27 18:57 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-mar-jun.html#26%20June%202009%20%28Urgent%3A%20Petition%20condemning%20violence%20in%20Iran%29 | Jun 27 18:58 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : my website showed up in google instantly after I created it | Jun 27 19:00 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks to u and tacone | Jun 27 19:00 |
| trmanco | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZvwyxJ9vk -> Wow | Jun 27 19:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Neocon US Colonel Calls for Military Attacks on "Partisan Media" < http://ping.fm/gRylL > 'Fun' of reporting. | Jun 27 19:02 | |
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| *_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 19:08 | |
| _Goblin | hi all | Jun 27 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | hi _Goblin | Jun 27 19:09 |
| _Goblin | massive showers here..... | Jun 27 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Barack Obama pleads with Congress to pass historic climate change billBarack Obama pleads with Congress to pass historic climate change bill < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jun/25/barack-obama-climate-change-bill > | Jun 27 19:09 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: just starting here too | Jun 27 19:10 |
| schestowitz | But 10 minutes ago I say here with direct sunlight in my face | Jun 27 19:10 |
| schestowitz | It also rained this morning | Jun 27 19:10 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I'll oggify it and post. Great post. | Jun 27 19:10 |
| schestowitz | INNOVA~1 | Jun 27 19:10 |
| trmanco | :) | Jun 27 19:10 |
| schestowitz | Windows OS: where you have top click on windows top to drag windows | Jun 27 19:11 |
| _Goblin | massive thunder too.. | Jun 27 19:11 |
| schestowitz | [to drag in one desktop, meh] | Jun 27 19:11 |
| _Goblin | think the weathers effected my bandwidth....gone from 315k per sec to around 230k on my D/L | Jun 27 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Thunders here too | Jun 27 19:12 |
| _Goblin | youre manchester right? | Jun 27 19:12 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: _Hicham_ laughs all the way to the sun | Jun 27 19:12 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: aye | Jun 27 19:12 |
| _Goblin | Im Bedfordshire......thats a hell of a storm cloud | Jun 27 19:12 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: well, winter time | Jun 27 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Winter comes early this year | Jun 27 19:13 |
| _Goblin | off topic: Ill have to snap a photo of the bar called "Moonlight" | Jun 27 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Jun 27 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | I am gonna package moonlight | Jun 27 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | since it is not in Fedora repos | Jun 27 19:15 |
| _Goblin | What Moonlight? Another "gift to the world"? | Jun 27 19:16 |
| ThistleWeb | _Goblin: how you getting on with claws? | Jun 27 19:16 |
| _Goblin | Theres as much chance of Moonlight getting on my machine as there is ballmer wearing deoderant... | Jun 27 19:17 |
| _Goblin | Thistleweb: Great....It is a little quicker.... | Jun 27 19:17 |
| ThistleWeb | :) | Jun 27 19:17 |
| _Goblin | It will be included in my distro (based on Knopix) | Jun 27 19:17 |
| hmmm, I fed the lalala troll. Did it get fat? I don't remember where that was this morning. Got link to the answer? | Jun 27 19:18 | |
| I probably don't want to see it. | Jun 27 19:18 | |
| _Hicham_ | I will create a Distro and call it SchestowitzOS | Jun 27 19:18 |
| _Hicham_ | it will be the best OS in the world | Jun 27 19:18 |
| _Hicham_ | speedy | Jun 27 19:18 |
| _Hicham_ | stable | Jun 27 19:18 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a LOT smaller in ram use too, my TB was about 51mb where claws came in at about 21mb | Jun 27 19:18 |
| _Hicham_ | and cutting-edge | Jun 27 19:18 |
| I think RMS has considered the issues raised by homer in his "why dotgnu" is wrong. | Jun 27 19:18 | |
| _Goblin | I am intending on this being pretty sweet.... | Jun 27 19:18 |
| _Goblin | and of course it will be BN certified. | Jun 27 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : Thunderbird doesn't use xulrunner | Jun 27 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is a waste of space and memory | Jun 27 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla should fix this | Jun 27 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | and synchronize the development of TB and FF | Jun 27 19:19 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah TB and FF are getting more off | Jun 27 19:19 |
| RMS things in terms of right and wrong. His assessment of "gratuitous risk" is correct. | Jun 27 19:19 | |
| ThistleWeb | neither are that light | Jun 27 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | but I think u can do it | Jun 27 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | u can link Thunderbird to existing xulrunner | Jun 27 19:20 |
| It is wrong for M$ to threaten people and right for people to do as they please. | Jun 27 19:20 | |
| _Hicham_ | that way, it will be very small | Jun 27 19:20 |
| ThistleWeb | I understand why a browser is heavier with lots of multimedia web 2.0 thingies, but an email client dont need to eat so much ram FFS | Jun 27 19:20 |
| advising people to avoid the mono trap is good policy, but he avoids backing software patents in general and M$'s threats in particular. | Jun 27 19:21 | |
| schestowitz | "According to the Techserve alliance U.S IT jobs fell by another 34,800 jobs in May to end about 5% below the record levels recorded in November 2008." http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1645 | Jun 27 19:22 |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : I already explained to you | Jun 27 19:22 |
| ThistleWeb | _Hicham_: how do you link TB to xulrinner? | Jun 27 19:22 |
| Using mono to rescue poorly spent work is a good idea. Wasting further resources on new M$ code is a bad idea. | Jun 27 19:22 | |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: it's a common word | Jun 27 19:22 |
| schestowitz | There was a bar called Longhorn | Jun 27 19:22 |
| schestowitz | They say that's what they called the dead OS after | Jun 27 19:22 |
| *ThistleWeb thought they both used xul | Jun 27 19:22 | |
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| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : by compiling TB the FF way | Jun 27 19:22 |
| _Hicham_ | to use system xulrunner | Jun 27 19:22 |
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| ThistleWeb | ahh | Jun 27 19:22 |
| SeanTilley | schestowitz: You would be proud of me, I just did a good write-up of Gnote. | Jun 27 19:22 |
| schestowitz | twitter: do a search in BN for lalala | Jun 27 19:23 |
| SeanTilley | schestowitz: http://www.fsdaily.com/EndUser/Free_Software_Take_Note_An_overview_of_Gnote_0_5_1 | Jun 27 19:23 |
| ThistleWeb | so why do the distros not do that, if it's that easy? | Jun 27 19:23 |
| _Goblin_ | ah...a disconnection.... | Jun 27 19:23 |
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| _Hicham_ | so, u need xulrunner-1.9.0, firefox-3.0.x, and thunderbird-3.0beta | Jun 27 19:23 |
| I know lalala is a troll from the few stupid things it has said. | Jun 27 19:23 | |
| _Hicham_ | distros don't do it because we dont have the same versions of TB and FF | Jun 27 19:23 |
| I can not remember how I last responded to it's nonsense. | Jun 27 19:23 | |
| _Hicham_ | TB and FF should use the same xulrunner | Jun 27 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | to reduce memory usage | Jun 27 19:24 |
| ut oh, paul murphy. I think you warned me about that one too. | Jun 27 19:24 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah, he's finished | Jun 27 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | linking every xul application to system xulrunner is a great benefit | Jun 27 19:24 |
| ThistleWeb | so they need to move forward together if they use the same xulrunner then, updating one will break the other | Jun 27 19:24 |
| schestowitz | He only writes once a week now | Jun 27 19:24 |
| schestowitz | he'll quit in Sept. | Jun 27 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : exactly | Jun 27 19:25 |
| ThistleWeb | :( k | Jun 27 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | what distro do u use? | Jun 27 19:26 |
| ThistleWeb | crunchbang as of a few days ago | Jun 27 19:26 |
| ThistleWeb | used to be mint | Jun 27 19:26 |
| _Hicham_ | what TB and FF versions do they have? | Jun 27 19:26 |
| SeanTilley | ThistleWeb: How is Crunchbang, by the way? I've been meaning to take a look at it. | Jun 27 19:26 |
| ThistleWeb | TB = version 2.0.0.21 (20090318) and FF = 3.0.11 | Jun 27 19:28 |
| ThistleWeb | crunchbang is sweet | Jun 27 19:28 |
| SeanTilley | What sets it apart from other linux distros? | Jun 27 19:28 |
| ThistleWeb | openbox is a bit more hands on than gnome | Jun 27 19:28 |
| ThistleWeb | it's one of the "ubuntu done right" distros like mint | Jun 27 19:28 |
| SeanTilley | I've never used it, I'm curious now. | Jun 27 19:29 |
| ThistleWeb | all the codecs installed and configured by default | Jun 27 19:29 |
| SeanTilley | Eh, I try and only use OGG when I can. | Jun 27 19:29 |
| SeanTilley | Still, having all those preconfigured is a nice thought. | Jun 27 19:29 |
| ThistleWeb | crunchbang is "openbox done right" int he same package, which really means it's set up with gui config tools, etc that you can install on any openbox distro | Jun 27 19:30 |
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| ThistleWeb | both mint and crunchbang are ubuntu based, so almost all the ubuntu tutorials and advice apply | Jun 27 19:30 |
| SeanTilley | Good to know. | Jun 27 19:30 |
| ThistleWeb | it uses the ubuntu repos | Jun 27 19:30 |
| ThistleWeb | synaptic etc | Jun 27 19:31 |
| SeanTilley | I just can't really do very well with non-Ubuntu distros, the commands vary wildly sometimes. | Jun 27 19:31 |
| SeanTilley | Non-ubuntu-based, rather. | Jun 27 19:31 |
| ThistleWeb | what distro do you use SeanTilley ? | Jun 27 19:31 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu with gnome? | Jun 27 19:31 |
| SeanTilley | For example, installing drivers in Fedora is different than in, say, DreamLinux. | Jun 27 19:31 |
| SeanTilley | I use Ubuntu for the time being, once the next gNewSense is out I hope to switch back to that. | Jun 27 19:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Of of the managers of Bing has just jumped ship. Wow! That was fast. | Jun 27 19:32 | |
| SeanTilley | Deltah is realllly outdated for the time being, and using Cmake with it is awkward. | Jun 27 19:32 |
| ThistleWeb | are you ok outside gnome? | Jun 27 19:32 |
| ThistleWeb | or do you prefer gnome | Jun 27 19:32 |
| ThistleWeb | openbox is way more hands on than gnome, with you having to make changes gnome would do for you | Jun 27 19:32 |
| SeanTilley | I tried building KDE /trunk on it, and got all sorts of weird errors that couldn't really easily be solved. | Jun 27 19:33 |
| SeanTilley | I don't mind Gnome, I guess I jump from DE to DE. | Jun 27 19:33 |
| ThistleWeb | of course, openbox is a LOT lighter in resources | Jun 27 19:33 |
| SeanTilley | So I've heard. | Jun 27 19:33 |
| ThistleWeb | I'd suggest trying Mint | Jun 27 19:33 |
| ThistleWeb | the main Mint is gnome | Jun 27 19:33 |
| SeanTilley | I'm kind of happy with the way Jaunty is, to be honest. | Jun 27 19:34 |
| ThistleWeb | they do have CE's (community editions) which are mint fans who prefer a different DE | Jun 27 19:34 |
| SeanTilley | I mean, once Ayatana is ported to gNewSense, I'll be happy enough. | Jun 27 19:34 |
| ThistleWeb | they have a KDE, XFCE and Fluxbox CE | Jun 27 19:34 |
| SeanTilley | I've enjoyed KDE 4.3 Beta 2 for a while now. | Jun 27 19:34 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, Mint is off in a different direction freedom wise, than gnewsense | Jun 27 19:34 |
| SeanTilley | Sadly it's too heavy for my laptop. | Jun 27 19:35 |
| SeanTilley | KDE, I mean. | Jun 27 19:35 |
| ThistleWeb | with non-free codecs all installed by default | Jun 27 19:35 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah KDE4 is too heavy for my lil pc too | Jun 27 19:35 |
| SeanTilley | Different solutions for different people. | Jun 27 19:35 |
| ThistleWeb | indeedy | Jun 27 19:35 |
| SeanTilley | If I just upgraded my laptop's RAM, I'd be fine. | Jun 27 19:35 |
| ThistleWeb | the beauty of FOSS | Jun 27 19:35 |
| SeanTilley | But money's tight nowadays. | Jun 27 19:35 |
| SeanTilley | Once I get a job, it won't be much of a problem. | Jun 27 19:36 |
| ThistleWeb | yep | Jun 27 19:36 |
| SeanTilley | Playing the waiting game stinks though. | Jun 27 19:36 |
| ThistleWeb | how much ram does your laptop have? | Jun 27 19:37 |
| SeanTilley | By the way, has anyone seen this video of the latest Nouveau driver? | Jun 27 19:37 |
| *_Goblin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 27 19:37 | |
| SeanTilley | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sLgtwEAgLo | Jun 27 19:37 |
| SeanTilley | I have 500 Mb, I believe. | Jun 27 19:37 |
| SeanTilley | Laptop supports up to 2 GB. | Jun 27 19:37 |
| ThistleWeb | that should be fine for any DE | Jun 27 19:37 |
| ThistleWeb | apart from Aero :) | Jun 27 19:38 |
| SeanTilley | lol, I don't care for Aero. | Jun 27 19:38 |
| SeanTilley | I'd use anything but that. | Jun 27 19:38 |
| ThistleWeb | nothing wrong with Aero's although they're too chocolatey for me | Jun 27 19:39 |
| SeanTilley | Too heavy for me. | Jun 27 19:39 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 27 19:39 |
| SeanTilley | Plasma/Air runs fine on my desktop. | Jun 27 19:39 |
| ThistleWeb | you should give crunchbang a go, it's a live cd like most thesedays. You'd be surprised how much snappier it is than gnome | Jun 27 19:39 |
| SeanTilley | I probably would, in some ways Gnome feels like it's still stuck in the 90s. | Jun 27 19:40 |
| SeanTilley | For example, dragging up from the windowlist creates these ugly boxes. | Jun 27 19:40 |
| ThistleWeb | although, installing openbox, lxpanel, obmenu, obconf and conky would get you pretty close to the crunchbang experience without the hassle of rebooting | Jun 27 19:40 |
| SeanTilley | Fair enough. | Jun 27 19:41 |
| ThistleWeb | after some config of course | Jun 27 19:41 |
| ThistleWeb | just a log out and change of session | Jun 27 19:41 |
| SeanTilley | I just did an article on Gnote: http://www.fsdaily.com/EndUser/Free_Software_Take_Note_An_overview_of_Gnote_0_5_1/ | Jun 27 19:41 |
| SeanTilley | It's really nice. | Jun 27 19:42 |
| SeanTilley | Bit quicker than Tomboy, too. | Jun 27 19:42 |
| ThistleWeb | not tried gnote yet | Jun 27 19:47 |
| SeanTilley | Visually it completely resembles Tomboy, except it's in C++ | Jun 27 19:47 |
| SeanTilley | And faster, of course. | Jun 27 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | I dont really need an app like that, I tried tomboy ages ago | Jun 27 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | I was in xfce for ages, they have their own note app | Jun 27 19:48 |
| SeanTilley | True, but I think an unencumbered replacement is a good thing. | Jun 27 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | of course it is, for peeps who have a need for it, gnote is a better option | Jun 27 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | I just dont have a need for an app like that | Jun 27 19:49 |
| ThistleWeb | I do have a lightweight xpad installed but, it may be getting removed, lol | Jun 27 19:49 |
| ThistleWeb | it came with crunchbang, and I guess it's not doing any harm | Jun 27 19:49 |
| SeanTilley | I find it's really useful for quick related notes in college classes. | Jun 27 19:49 |
| SeanTilley | Really good for lectures, although I can't personally think of other uses. | Jun 27 19:50 |
| SeanTilley | Maybe storyplotting or something. | Jun 27 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Anti-Linux folks (with history) like Dennis Byron start a rumour campaign about Red Hat being acquired: http://www.cnbc.com/id/31567406/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo | Jun 27 19:52 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, it has it's uses | Jun 27 19:52 |
| ThistleWeb | SeanTilley: tried basket? | Jun 27 19:52 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-196-62.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 19:52 | |
| SeanTilley | ThistleWeb: Not yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, is that for KDE? | Jun 27 19:52 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a QT app yes | Jun 27 19:53 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a note taker multiplied by 10 | Jun 27 19:53 |
| SeanTilley | How does it compare? | Jun 27 19:53 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a full on organiser | Jun 27 19:53 |
| ThistleWeb | you can draw a rectangle on a site and save it as a jpg | Jun 27 19:53 |
| ThistleWeb | grab and move it | Jun 27 19:53 |
| ThistleWeb | save pages | Jun 27 19:54 |
| ThistleWeb | movies | Jun 27 19:54 |
| SeanTilley | Wow, nice. | Jun 27 19:54 |
| SeanTilley | I'll have to check it out. | Jun 27 19:54 |
| ThistleWeb | you think gnote is impressive as a note taker, basket is gonna blow your mind | Jun 27 19:54 |
| SeanTilley | Interesting... | Jun 27 19:54 |
| ThistleWeb | there's nothing GTK even close | Jun 27 19:55 |
| ThistleWeb | notecase possibly, but even that is miles behind | Jun 27 19:55 |
| SeanTilley | Like I said, once I can afford a hardware upgrade, I plan on shifting over to KDE fully. | Jun 27 19:55 |
| SeanTilley | Qt apps are sadly quite slow on the laptop right now. | Jun 27 19:56 |
| SeanTilley | Even Amarok's been having problems. | Jun 27 19:56 |
| ThistleWeb | I dunno where basket is in the qt3-qt4 transistion | Jun 27 19:56 |
| SeanTilley | Works fine on the desktop, though. | Jun 27 19:56 |
| ThistleWeb | last I used it was ages back, as qt3 | Jun 27 19:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FUD warning. Linux-hostile (and pro-MS) chaps are trying to fly rumours about Red Hat being bought. This is nonsense. | Jun 27 19:57 | |
| SeanTilley | Common sense question: Who on earth would try to buy Red Hat? | Jun 27 19:57 |
| SeanTilley | They're such a large entity, it's a pointless move. | Jun 27 19:57 |
| ThistleWeb | http://basket.kde.org/ | Jun 27 19:57 |
| SeanTilley | Let's see if there's a Qt4 version yet... | Jun 27 19:58 |
| ThistleWeb | it's still in early dev apparently | Jun 27 19:58 |
| ThistleWeb | so it's a qt3 app for now | Jun 27 19:59 |
| SeanTilley | Hmm, the roadmap has some promising features. | Jun 27 19:59 |
| SeanTilley | I've never liked having to wait for these kind of things. | Jun 27 19:59 |
| SeanTilley | I remember waiting for KDEnlive to get ported to Qt4. | Jun 27 19:59 |
| ThistleWeb | I grew out of kde 3.x but kde 4 looks damn nice | Jun 27 20:00 |
| SeanTilley | "BasKet Note Pads has no developer anymore. Without new developers, I'm afraid the project will have to be stopped (and unavailable on KDE 4)." | Jun 27 20:00 |
| SeanTilley | Uhoh. | Jun 27 20:00 |
| ThistleWeb | wheres that? | Jun 27 20:01 |
| SeanTilley | http://basket.kde.org/version2.php | Jun 27 20:01 |
| SeanTilley | =[ | Jun 27 20:01 |
| SeanTilley | I hope he can manage to find more developers. | Jun 27 20:01 |
| SeanTilley | Some really great feature ideas. | Jun 27 20:02 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah | Jun 27 20:03 |
| SeanTilley | Well, this is a bummer. | Jun 27 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft bribed TechFlash with some money last week and look what they do in return: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Introducing_Bing_the_better_way_to_Google_49272392.html ('Bing, the better way to Google') | Jun 27 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Nothing there offers a disclosure | Jun 27 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Like, "oh, BTW, BING pays my wage" | Jun 27 20:06 |
| SeanTilley | lol, Collegehumor | Jun 27 20:06 |
| SeanTilley | "Google it with Bing. Google Docs, Google images, Google Google Google Google." | Jun 27 20:08 |
| ThistleWeb | it's interesting to use the name of a long dead 50's singer to capture the attention of todays youth, who think of anything before 2005 as "ancient" | Jun 27 20:08 |
| SeanTilley | Elvis? | Jun 27 20:09 |
| ThistleWeb | Crosby | Jun 27 20:09 |
| SeanTilley | I'm more of a Johnny Cash man myself. | Jun 27 20:09 |
| SeanTilley | Oh. | Jun 27 20:09 |
| SeanTilley | OH. | Jun 27 20:09 |
| SeanTilley | God, I'm ignorant. | Jun 27 20:09 |
| SeanTilley | =P | Jun 27 20:10 |
| *_Goblin_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jun 27 20:10 | |
| amarsh04 | do you drive a Wednesday Car, SeanTilley? (-: | Jun 27 20:10 |
| SeanTilley | amarsh04: I don't even have a car. I walk everywhere. | Jun 27 20:11 |
| ThistleWeb | SeanTilley: me too | Jun 27 20:11 |
| SeanTilley | I WISH I had a car, but home situations have complicated that severely. | Jun 27 20:12 |
| amarsh04 | I should do more walking... mind you, using stairs in a 4-wing, 6 storey building helps keep you fit | Jun 27 20:13 |
| SeanTilley | In a month, I might be able to get one. We'll see. | Jun 27 20:13 |
| ThistleWeb | come to think of it, Bing was well in with the mob in Vegas, so a corrupt celeb may be appropriate for Microsoft to latch onto | Jun 27 20:13 |
| amarsh04 | cars are money pits | Jun 27 20:13 |
| SeanTilley | Bing Crossedme. | Jun 27 20:13 |
| ThistleWeb | lol, yeah, ya don't cross the guys he associated with, unless you like cement shoes | Jun 27 20:13 |
| SeanTilley | Hey, at least Bing comes up with Wikipedia as the first entry for Satan. | Jun 27 20:14 |
| SeanTilley | Now let's look up Encarta. | Jun 27 20:14 |
| ThistleWeb | they'd be better going for the stoner crowd by calling it Bong | Jun 27 20:14 |
| _Hicham_ | Encarta is plain fucked | Jun 27 20:14 |
| _Hicham_ | die MS, die | Jun 27 20:14 |
| _Hicham_ | die again and again | Jun 27 20:14 |
| SeanTilley | I'd use a search engine called Bong. | Jun 27 20:15 |
| ThistleWeb | smokin results :) | Jun 27 20:15 |
| SeanTilley | It would give highly opinionated answers, but it'd be a great time. | Jun 27 20:15 |
| schestowitz | twitter made front page: http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/27/1759255/Richard-Stallman-Says-No-To-Mono?from=rss | Jun 27 20:15 |
| _Hicham_ | Big Bong :P | Jun 27 20:15 |
| _Hicham_ | mononono | Jun 27 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Big Bong: MSHashish | Jun 27 20:16 |
| ThistleWeb | or have mark & lard promote it with viral "biggity biggity bong" ads | Jun 27 20:16 |
| SeanTilley | Actually, I'd see MS as more of a tobacco corporation. | Jun 27 20:16 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : did u smoke Hashish before? | Jun 27 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Jun 27 20:16 |
| SeanTilley | I'll take my grass anyday. | Jun 27 20:16 |
| schestowitz | But it's airborne | Jun 27 20:16 |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-240-114-114.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 20:16 | |
| *ThistleWeb spent many afternoons smokin dope with mark & lard on the radio, playing PES of the playstation | Jun 27 20:17 | |
| ThistleWeb | it's been a while though | Jun 27 20:17 |
| SeanTilley | It's been a week for me. | Jun 27 20:17 |
| SeanTilley | It happens when you visit college sororities up north. | Jun 27 20:17 |
| ThistleWeb | SeanTilley: I had a revalation a while back, I either give up dope AND ciggies, or neither, so it was both | Jun 27 20:18 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Jun 27 20:18 | |
| SeanTilley | Gosh. I dunno if I could give up weed and be happy about it. | Jun 27 20:18 |
| ThistleWeb | coming close to 2 years now, and never regretted the decision to stop | Jun 27 20:18 |
| SeanTilley | I've quit tobacco cold turkey. | Jun 27 20:18 |
| ThistleWeb | that was my plan, but everyones different, and I can't do one, it's either neither or both. It took me a LOT of failed attempts to stop to realise that | Jun 27 20:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Ok, I think I am gonna begin selling some Hashish through BN, are u OK with that schestowitz? | Jun 27 20:19 |
| ThistleWeb | _Hicham_: lol | Jun 27 20:20 |
| SeanTilley | I'll buy. | Jun 27 20:20 |
| SeanTilley | So long as you sell a good dank ounce cheap. | Jun 27 20:20 |
| _Hicham_ | you gonna like it for sure | Jun 27 20:20 |
| SeanTilley | 80 bucks, take it or leave it. | Jun 27 20:20 |
| _Hicham_ | Morocco's Hashish is one of the best species in the world | Jun 27 20:20 |
| _Hicham_ | 80 bucks for what? | Jun 27 20:21 |
| ThistleWeb | for a sec there I thought that was Microsoft's Hashish lol | Jun 27 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Ok, enough high talk.. | Jun 27 20:21 |
| SeanTilley | A good ounce of whatever you're selling. | Jun 27 20:21 |
| schestowitz | You're fueling people who try to discredit BN | Jun 27 20:21 |
| ThistleWeb | was gonna say, that's a new business for them to get intp | Jun 27 20:21 |
| SeanTilley | I just hope it one day gets legalized in the US. | Jun 27 20:21 |
| SeanTilley | That'd be nice... | Jun 27 20:21 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : nobody can discret BN | Jun 27 20:21 |
| _Hicham_ | SeanTilley : come to Morocco, you ll get plenty of it | Jun 27 20:22 |
| SeanTilley | That's because discret is not a verb. | Jun 27 20:22 |
| SeanTilley | LOL | Jun 27 20:22 |
| _Hicham_ | *discredit | Jun 27 20:22 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: did you get the guardian CIF link I posted earlier? | Jun 27 20:23 |
| SeanTilley | Oh geez, poor Twitter. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7527211 | Jun 27 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Ingres takes corps off the Oracle drugs: http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090623005243&newsLang=en | Jun 27 20:23 |
| SeanTilley | What is with the fragmentation in the FOSS community anymore? | Jun 27 20:23 |
| schestowitz | <ThistleWeb> Apple's app store delete button pushers have struck again >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2009/jun/25/iphone-porn-application ? | Jun 27 20:24 |
| schestowitz | <ThistleWeb> schestowitz: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jun/25/windows7-uk-prices "Brooks says it will offer buyers the option to pick up a disc with IE8 and Windows Live Essentials (Mail, Messenger etc) "at no cost at retail"." ?\ | Jun 27 20:24 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, second one | Jun 27 20:25 |
| SeanTilley | @schestowitz: I really can't stand Apple's constant over-moderation of their store. If users can't install things on devices the way they want, why pay for them? | Jun 27 20:25 |
| schestowitz | twitter shook some trees in high palces | Jun 27 20:26 |
| schestowitz | He created more accounts because he got massively abused | Jun 27 20:26 |
| SeanTilley | It seems so. | Jun 27 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Then they used the accounts he escaped to to even attack more | Jun 27 20:26 |
| schestowitz | That's the MS mob | Jun 27 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Digg has those too | Jun 27 20:26 |
| SeanTilley | Geez. | Jun 27 20:26 |
| schestowitz | When I posted a comment in Digg, then the MS mob would mod it down 4 times within hours | Jun 27 20:27 |
| schestowitz | All consistent -4 | Jun 27 20:27 |
| SeanTilley | At least you've got FS Daily, Linsux has really winded down on even bothering with it anymore. | Jun 27 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Some of them trolls from COLA who stalked me and admitted gaming it for months | Jun 27 20:27 |
| yuhong | From http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2006/12/28.html | Jun 27 20:27 |
| SeanTilley | Creepy. | Jun 27 20:27 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: old news? | Jun 27 20:27 |
| I'm used to M$ abuse, thanks, SeanTilley. | Jun 27 20:27 | |
| yuhong | "This is the most frustrating thing about the practice of giving bloggers free stuff: it pisses in the well, reducing the credibility of all blogs. I'm upset that people trust me less because of the behavior of other bloggers." | Jun 27 20:28 |
| SeanTilley | twitter: Still, I can imagine it's a difficult routine to go through. | Jun 27 20:28 |
| SeanTilley | Some pretty toxic people out there. | Jun 27 20:28 |
| They do this to everyone who advances free software in a meaningful way. | Jun 27 20:28 | |
| yuhong | Yes, old news, but a recent BN article said some thing similar for twitter. | Jun 27 20:28 |
| yuhong | Yes, old news, but a recent BN article said something similar for twitter. | Jun 27 20:29 |
| The trolls must really be pissed that Slashdot front paged me again. They hate what I have to say almost as much as they hate RMS himself. | Jun 27 20:29 | |
| SeanTilley | Why not just collaborate and vote up the Free Software stories as a community? | Jun 27 20:29 |
| yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/20/microsoft-astroturf-te-twitter/ | Jun 27 20:30 |
| Vote as you will, if you care. | Jun 27 20:31 | |
| yuhong | Get it now? | Jun 27 20:31 |
| SeanTilley | mmhm | Jun 27 20:32 |
| yuhong | That Joel on Software article links to this also, which is good. | Jun 27 20:33 |
| yuhong | http://www.techcrunch.com/tag/payperpost/ | Jun 27 20:33 |
| SeanTilley | Nice. | Jun 27 20:34 |
| yuhong | It talked about the Google Japan pay per post disaster and more. | Jun 27 20:35 |
| schestowitz | http://adtmag.com/articles/2009/06/23/qa-with-software-pioneer-dan-bricklin.aspx (Q&A: Software Pioneer Dan Bricklin) | Jun 27 20:36 |
| schestowitz | twitter: don't let them get you down, it means you're on the right topic | Jun 27 20:36 |
| Thanks, but I have yet to let the opinion of a few loud idiots bother me. | Jun 27 20:37 | |
| It only bothers me when people I know are bothered by it. | Jun 27 20:37 | |
| schestowitz | yuhong: I like to that page of Joel a lot already | Jun 27 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Like 50 times before | Jun 27 20:38 |
| yuhong | Yes, but this is a good quote in light of MS astroturfing on twitter. | Jun 27 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I wrote about thaty Google AstroTurf | Jun 27 20:38 |
| schestowitz | I denounced Google for it several times. They also lobby in the EU | Jun 27 20:39 |
| yuhong | For what? | Jun 27 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Google absorb some MS poison (employees) | Jun 27 20:39 |
| schestowitz | That's some good piano-playin': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSBHNrgD9hw&feature=fvst | Jun 27 20:39 |
| yuhong | I am sure they do. | Jun 27 20:39 |
| yuhong | I am sure Google has absorbed some MS employees. | Jun 27 20:40 |
| yuhong | Yep, I said before that Google is not perfect. | Jun 27 20:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Known Microsoft Shill ACT Attacks FOSS: http://ping.fm/7psig | Jun 27 20:42 | |
| Hmph, Slashdot took the M$ out of my submission. Funny how M$ manages to tame them. | Jun 27 20:42 | |
| All it took was a pile of nyms to complain in the comments. | Jun 27 20:42 | |
| yuhong | Right now, I am reading about Zappos, which is a good example of usage of twitter. | Jun 27 20:43 |
| yuhong | twitter: Do you mean changing M$ to MS? | Jun 27 20:43 |
| My favorite complaint, the one that timothy responded to was this: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1284373&cid=28496257 | Jun 27 20:44 | |
| Yes, that's what I mean. | Jun 27 20:44 | |
| I type M$ to save time and convey meaning. | Jun 27 20:44 | |
| -> Wow, what are you, four years old? Is it really that hard to just use Microsoft?Where is the editor to edit this graffiti out? This crap does not belong on the front page of news site at all | Jun 27 20:44 | |
| yuhong | Well, I am not a fan of using terms like M$ myself. | Jun 27 20:45 |
| *_Goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 20:45 | |
| You are entitled to your opinion, yuhong. | Jun 27 20:45 | |
| but you should not rewrite what I say and pretend that I said it. | Jun 27 20:46 | |
| MinceR | you are entitled to my opinion. :> | Jun 27 20:46 |
| Right, I should be ignoring yuhong | Jun 27 20:46 | |
| MinceR | my opinion is that until m$ starts respecting the rest of the world, they don't deserve respect from the world. | Jun 27 20:46 |
| MinceR | thus they'll be called m$ until they stop waging a war on us. | Jun 27 20:46 |
| yuhong | "After SCO and MS suing over FAT patents, you would think avoiding anything MS would be a matter of common sense." | Jun 27 20:46 |
| respect must be earned. right now they deserve jail time. | Jun 27 20:47 | |
| MinceR | right, they deserve to be tortured to death, slowly. | Jun 27 20:47 |
| no one deserves that, do they MinceR? | Jun 27 20:47 | |
| SeanTilley | MinceR: Isn't torture a bit of a strong word? | Jun 27 20:47 |
| MinceR | so, should we start calling /. "$la$hdot", to accentuate their relationship with m$? :> | Jun 27 20:47 |
| too much work | Jun 27 20:48 | |
| MinceR | twitter: well, they certainly do everything they can to deserve it. | Jun 27 20:48 |
| MinceR | m$, that is. | Jun 27 20:48 |
| easier to reference slashdot like this, http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/06/27/1759255/Richard-Stallman-Says-No-To-Mono | Jun 27 20:48 | |
| MinceR | anyway, you said they don't deserve jail time and i agree. they deserve death. :> | Jun 27 20:49 |
| ? | Jun 27 20:49 | |
| They deserve jail. | Jun 27 20:49 | |
| _Goblin | I think a better punishment would be to force them to surrender their patent portfolio and release all MS products under GPL | Jun 27 20:50 |
| MinceR | oh | Jun 27 20:50 |
| MinceR | sorry, i've failed to read what you said. | Jun 27 20:50 |
| _Goblin | oh and make Ballmer change his shirt | Jun 27 20:50 |
| fewa | _Goblin, i think that is the only business strategy they have left | Jun 27 20:50 |
| SeanTilley | I really don't care for Microsoft's products in general. | Jun 27 20:50 |
| SeanTilley | No point in opening them up in my opinion. | Jun 27 20:50 |
| yuhong | But I don't think the law allow that. | Jun 27 20:50 |
| MinceR | SeanTilley: there are many apps that lock users into them though. | Jun 27 20:50 |
| fewa | by releasing their OS under the GPL they could maintain a lucrative business of fixing bugs and providing support | Jun 27 20:51 |
| _Goblin | ok then...at least can Ballmer put a fresh shirt on now and again..? | Jun 27 20:51 |
| SeanTilley | MinceR: This is very true, but I honestly prefer most of the FOSS alternatives anyway. | Jun 27 20:51 |
| MinceR | _Goblin: he won't need fresh shirts where he belongs. | Jun 27 20:51 |
| SeanTilley | For example, I now only use Jabber instead of MSN, Yahoo, and Aim | Jun 27 20:51 |
| Another way to reference Slashdot, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/217907 | Jun 27 20:51 | |
| _Goblin | lol | Jun 27 20:51 |
| ThistleWeb | I put an appeal to TIT radio and Linux Outlaws for developer help for the basket project | Jun 27 20:51 |
| yuhong | Well, in fact, there is already ReactOS, a clone of Windows. | Jun 27 20:51 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, you can also use pidgin | Jun 27 20:51 |
| _Goblin | unfortunate name...TIT radio | Jun 27 20:51 |
| MinceR | sounds like KTIT from Duke Nukem 3D | Jun 27 20:52 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, supports jabber, MSN, yahoo, aim, icq, etc, etc | Jun 27 20:52 |
| _Goblin | Trotters Independant Traders? (UK Joke) | Jun 27 20:52 |
| SeanTilley | fewa: Of course, I use Pidgin as my default Jabber client, I just refuse to support AIM, MSN, and Yahoo protocols | Jun 27 20:52 |
| MinceR | (though that could just be a callsign Duke makes up on the spot) | Jun 27 20:52 |
| yuhong | I use Windows Live Messenger on Windows and Pidgin with MSN protocols on Linux. | Jun 27 20:53 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, make alot of sense | Jun 27 20:53 |
| SeanTilley | fewa: I just don't like the "popular" protocols. | Jun 27 20:53 |
| fewa | You cant rely on proprietary central systems | Jun 27 20:53 |
| so run your own jabber server | Jun 27 20:53 | |
| SeanTilley | Yahoo, for example, caused some regressions when they updated their service a few weeks ago. | Jun 27 20:54 |
| SeanTilley | I just use Jabber.org | Jun 27 20:54 |
| fewa | SeanTilley, the new protocol is much better | Jun 27 20:54 |
| SeanTilley | Eh. | Jun 27 20:54 |
| yuhong | Ballmer will have to retire in less than a decade anyway, and then there will be an oppunitunity. | Jun 27 20:54 |
| fewa | instead of a complicated thing its just https, but yes its a big issue, the problem of propritary procols | Jun 27 20:54 |
| ThistleWeb | yuhong: unless he's in a jail cell next door to mahdoff | Jun 27 20:55 |
| fewa | i run a ejabber server | Jun 27 20:55 |
| SeanTilley | Nice. | Jun 27 20:55 |
| fewa | its quite easy to set up | Jun 27 20:55 |
| SeanTilley | So I've heard. | Jun 27 20:56 |
| fewa | just run a virtual machine with email, jabber, openid dedication | Jun 27 20:56 |
| SeanTilley | But I'm satisfied with just using Jabber.org's public server. | Jun 27 20:56 |
| fewa | web mail | Jun 27 20:56 |
| fewa | i should set it up where you can just turn it on and supply a domain name, that would be cool | Jun 27 20:57 |
| fewa | the instant identity server | Jun 27 20:57 |
| yuhong | To replace him, I mean. | Jun 27 20:58 |
| ThistleWeb | who knows, Microsoft's schemes may all come tumbling down before that | Jun 27 20:59 |
| yuhong | Apple's iChat is based on Jabber, as I remember. | Jun 27 21:01 |
| ThistleWeb | yuhong: I believe it is | Jun 27 21:01 |
| MinceR | so is gtalk | Jun 27 21:01 |
| ThistleWeb | same as GTalk | Jun 27 21:01 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Jun 27 21:01 |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 27 21:02 |
| fewa | yuhong, GTalk is federated with Jabber, but is not itsself jabber | Jun 27 21:02 |
| fewa | ie XMPP | Jun 27 21:02 |
| _Hicham_ | mixing compiler options to build firefox is not a good idea | Jun 27 21:02 |
| _Hicham_ | i tried to optimize it to my platform | Jun 27 21:03 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean pentium-m | Jun 27 21:03 |
| _Hicham_ | but at the end, all I got are random segfaults | Jun 27 21:03 |
| SeanTilley | Cool, now I have a Slashdot submission: http://slashdot.org/submission/1028445/Free-Software-Take-Note-An-overview-of-Gnote-05 | Jun 27 21:05 |
| SeanTilley | Let's see how long before someone votes it down. | Jun 27 21:05 |
| yuhong | If you have gdb you can debug them. | Jun 27 21:08 |
| MinceR | do they include "Link To Original Source" in news stories? because there's no other link there. | Jun 27 21:08 |
| SeanTilley | It says it right there on the page for me. | Jun 27 21:09 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : not worth it | Jun 27 21:13 |
| _Hicham_ | better recompile with fewer options | Jun 27 21:13 |
| fewa | this is so pro-facebook http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/06/27/1411242/The-Battle-Between-Google-and-Facebook | Jun 27 21:15 |
| fewa | basically a infomercial of face book, makeing the argument that the computer can tell you what to do , instead of just being a tool to get there | Jun 27 21:16 |
| schestowitz | How to install Chrome browser on Fedora linux, that works! < http://digitizor.com/2009/06/25/how-to-install-chrome-browser-on-fedora-linux-that-works/ > | Jun 27 21:17 |
| _Goblin | Been running Chrome on a few distros for a week now... | Jun 27 21:20 |
| fewa | chromium | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : Chromium is progressing slowly | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Goblin | love it. | Jun 27 21:21 |
| fewa | I dont | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | no Flash Support yet | Jun 27 21:21 |
| fewa | its only good for local sites | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Goblin | true... | Jun 27 21:21 |
| fewa | or wikipedia | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | I sticking to firefox | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | *I am | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Goblin | Ive found of late its become sloooow. | Jun 27 21:21 |
| fewa | as there is no privacy or customization control | Jun 27 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | I always get latest firefox version from Mercurial repos | Jun 27 21:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox 3.5 is just days away now | Jun 27 21:22 | |
| _Hicham_ | vive schestowitz | Jun 27 21:22 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I just compiled latest firefox from mercurial | Jun 27 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Re: burying Linux news (modbombing) http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-26-003-39-OP-CY-0000 "But why give anyone any other kind of power to kill a public story? It seems like positive competition would be the only appropriate way to demote a story." | Jun 27 21:22 |
| _Goblin | mm FF has always been my hardy companion, that was until I tried Chrome... | Jun 27 21:22 |
| _Hicham_ | no scrolling issues | Jun 27 21:22 |
| fewa | _Hicham_, i fallow the mozilla daily builds | Jun 27 21:22 |
| _Goblin | *not hardy Trusty.. | Jun 27 21:22 |
| _Hicham_ | Chromium is so hard to compile | Jun 27 21:23 |
| _Hicham_ | it has a 600MB+ of sources | Jun 27 21:23 |
| fewa | the inux version has no html5 video | Jun 27 21:23 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : it does | Jun 27 21:23 |
| fewa | but not the ppa version | Jun 27 21:23 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : did u check? | Jun 27 21:24 |
| fewa | there is a bug about it | Jun 27 21:24 |
| fewa | where they said you have to compile your own to get it | Jun 27 21:24 |
| _Hicham_ | weird | Jun 27 21:24 |
| fewa | may have changed since then, idk | Jun 27 21:24 |
| _Hicham_ | I tested it on the binary snapshots | Jun 27 21:24 |
| _Hicham_ | works without a problem | Jun 27 21:24 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/DebuginfoFS | Jun 27 21:26 |
| _Hicham_ | is that what you were complaining about ? | Jun 27 21:26 |
| _Goblin | Im currently running Chrome build 3.0.190.2 | Jun 27 21:26 |
| _Hicham_ | _Goblin : on which distro? | Jun 27 21:27 |
| fewa | see http://people.xiph.org/~greg/video/ytcompare/bbb_theora_325kbit.html | Jun 27 21:27 |
| fewa | doesnt work with the ppa deb | Jun 27 21:27 |
| _Goblin | deb based...Deep Red Linux...my own flavor of Satanic. | Jun 27 21:27 |
| fewa | http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=13416 | Jun 27 21:27 |
| fewa | Its because of them doing H.264 IMHO | Jun 27 21:28 |
| _Goblin | although once my other (main) rig is sorted I'll be putting it on that too..(RPM) | Jun 27 21:28 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a build problme | Jun 27 21:29 |
| _Hicham_ | *problem | Jun 27 21:29 |
| fewa | maybe the rpm is full, i could use alien and install that | Jun 27 21:29 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : just grab the daily snapshot from google | Jun 27 21:29 |
| fewa | id rather have the open source version | Jun 27 21:29 |
| fewa | with no eula | Jun 27 21:29 |
| _Goblin | mov ax,10 | Jun 27 21:30 |
| _Goblin | *error....sorry. | Jun 27 21:30 |
| fewa | but anyways i use firefox | Jun 27 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/snapshots/chromium-rel-linux | Jun 27 21:30 |
| fewa | ooo, didnt know they were doing those | Jun 27 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | these are the most up-to-date | Jun 27 21:30 |
| fewa | the ppa is daily too | Jun 27 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | I know | Jun 27 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | those binaries are ubuntu based | Jun 27 21:31 |
| fewa | chrome doesnt have a cool XML style: http://build.chromium.org/buildbot/snapshots/chromium-rel-linux/19470/changelog.xml | Jun 27 21:31 |
| fewa | unlike firefox | Jun 27 21:31 |
| yuhong | _Hicham_: Thanks, I am used to the MS symbol server on Windows, and it is good that someone is working on similar for linux. | Jun 27 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, I noticed that | Jun 27 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | Chromium will never be like Firefox on Linux | Jun 27 21:33 |
| fewa | chromium is a app machine | Jun 27 21:33 |
| fewa | that is what it is designed for | Jun 27 21:33 |
| fewa | a platform for delivering web applications | Jun 27 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | it will never catch up with Firefox on Linux | Jun 27 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | web applications are more dangerous | Jun 27 21:33 |
| fewa | meh still doesnt work | Jun 27 21:34 |
| fewa | no ogg/theora | Jun 27 21:34 |
| SeanTilley | Darn. | Jun 27 21:34 |
| SeanTilley | I really want Chromium's engine to support the HTML5 video tag already. | Jun 27 21:34 |
| fewa | it does | Jun 27 21:35 |
| fewa | but the linux versions dont have it compiled it | Jun 27 21:35 |
| SeanTilley | Does it? | Jun 27 21:35 |
| SeanTilley | Oh... | Jun 27 21:35 |
| fewa | chromium's engine is webkit | Jun 27 21:35 |
| SeanTilley | Well that's no fun. | Jun 27 21:35 |
| SeanTilley | Right. | Jun 27 21:35 |
| fewa | uses ffmpeg | Jun 27 21:35 |
| SeanTilley | I find that Webkit still has some catching up to do on the Linux side. | Jun 27 21:36 |
| fewa | it i quite fast | Jun 27 21:36 |
| fewa | *is | Jun 27 21:36 |
| SeanTilley | It doesn't quite have all the nifty features the MacOS builds do, though. Maybe soon. | Jun 27 21:36 |
| SeanTilley | Hopefully, HTML5 support will have that nifty Javascript player that FF 3.5 has. | Jun 27 21:37 |
| SeanTilley | It works beautifully in conjunction with iTheora. | Jun 27 21:37 |
| fewa | also webkit is good at moving boxes in html, which gecko is very bad at | Jun 27 21:37 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 27 21:37 | |
| SeanTilley | fewa: I've noticed that. Now, if Linux Webkit could just drag images the way it does on MacOS and Windows. | Jun 27 21:38 |
| fewa | http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody | Jun 27 21:38 |
| fewa | really good ^^^ | Jun 27 21:38 |
| fewa | the implamentations of <video> that use javascript are despicable | Jun 27 21:38 |
| SeanTilley | All I get is the "Image preview" symbol on the various webkit browsers I've tried. | Jun 27 21:38 |
| SeanTilley | fewa: I actually quite like the FF implementation. | Jun 27 21:39 |
| fewa | i said that wrong | Jun 27 21:39 |
| fewa | dont use javascript in your page to include <video< | Jun 27 21:39 |
| SeanTilley | Ah. | Jun 27 21:39 |
| *magentar (n=magentar@94.79.141.144) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 21:39 | |
| fewa | the implamentation is differnt, and there is a big security bug that is preventing javascript implamented features in firefox from running with js off | Jun 27 21:39 |
| SeanTilley | Gosh, I didn't know that. | Jun 27 21:40 |
| fewa | but browser implementation is differnt from web page implamentation | Jun 27 21:40 |
| SeanTilley | Hope they fix it soon, then. | Jun 27 21:40 |
| fewa | its not a security hole | Jun 27 21:40 |
| fewa | they just are refusing to have trusted js run in a page | Jun 27 21:40 |
| fewa | i said that wrong too | Jun 27 21:40 |
| fewa | lol | Jun 27 21:40 |
| SeanTilley | =/ | Jun 27 21:40 |
| fewa | most people dont run into it, only users of noscript | Jun 27 21:41 |
| fewa | if you turn of js, marquee, <video> <blink> <audio> doesnt work | Jun 27 21:41 |
| SeanTilley | Oh. | Jun 27 21:41 |
| fewa | cause firefox implaments these with javascript | Jun 27 21:41 |
| SeanTilley | Yeah. | Jun 27 21:41 |
| fewa | but even if they fixed this problem, sites that use javascript to set up a <video> element still require it | Jun 27 21:42 |
| fewa | or web browsers that are simple and work in phones, etc | Jun 27 21:42 |
| fewa | html has built in ways of doing feature detection and backup without needing js | Jun 27 21:43 |
| SeanTilley | Well, as long as browsers get native OGG playback one way or another. | Jun 27 21:43 |
| fewa | yeah its a fringe issue | Jun 27 21:43 |
| fewa | this is the way to do it: http://camendesign.com/code/video_for_everybody | Jun 27 21:43 |
| fewa | meh it should use flowplayer | Jun 27 21:45 |
| SeanTilley | Isn't flowplayer implemented in Flash? | Jun 27 21:48 |
| fewa | its for getting video to everyone, and many will not have <video | Jun 27 21:48 |
| fewa | it uses flash as a fallback | Jun 27 21:48 |
| MinceR | it would be nice to provide a download link anyway | Jun 27 21:49 |
| yuhong | Reminds me of when Netscape bet on JSSS and after it lost, had to implement CSS using JSSS resulting in buggy CSS support in Netscape 4. | Jun 27 21:49 |
| fewa | yuhong, what remind you of that? | Jun 27 21:49 |
| fewa | making video successful means providing fallbacks | Jun 27 21:50 |
| yuhong | Get Netscape 4, disable JavaScript, and then try to render a page using CSS in Netscape 4 if you don't believe me. | Jun 27 21:50 |
| fewa | <video> | Jun 27 21:50 |
| fewa | ahhh | Jun 27 21:50 |
| yuhong | Yep, the fact that <video> is implemented using JavaScript in Firefox. | Jun 27 21:50 |
| fewa | i think content web sites should not require javascript | Jun 27 21:50 |
| fewa | at least web-page provide javascript | Jun 27 21:51 |
| fewa | as most browsers these days are actually built on javascript | Jun 27 21:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Javascript is inevitable | Jun 27 21:51 |
| MinceR | i think browsers shouldn't be built on javascript | Jun 27 21:51 |
| _Hicham_ | you can't work around it | Jun 27 21:51 |
| yuhong | Yes I know about XUL. | Jun 27 21:51 |
| SeanTilley | It's a neat idea for a player, though. | Jun 27 21:51 |
| fewa | MinceR, why? | Jun 27 21:52 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : on what then? | Jun 27 21:52 |
| MinceR | because it's slow | Jun 27 21:52 |
| MinceR | on native code | Jun 27 21:52 |
| MinceR | browsers should be built on native code :> | Jun 27 21:52 |
| fewa | all the new js intrepreters generate native code | Jun 27 21:52 |
| fewa | tracemonkey, v8, the webkit one | Jun 27 21:52 |
| yuhong | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript_Style_Sheets | Jun 27 21:52 |
| MinceR | then there should be no technical obstacle to write all those things in native code instead of hacking them up in js. | Jun 27 21:52 |
| fewa | yuhong, I think the entere firefox "registry" is based like that | Jun 27 21:53 |
| fewa | shows its heritage | Jun 27 21:53 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : what is the point is writing them in native code? | Jun 27 21:55 |
| fewa | MinceR, what does it make slow? | Jun 27 21:55 |
| fewa | MinceR, only small parts of applications are performance-critical | Jun 27 21:55 |
| MinceR | still, they probably don't do well with memory usage | Jun 27 21:55 |
| fewa | and would you say chrome is slow? | Jun 27 21:56 |
| yuhong | What is frustrating about that JSSS/CSS debacle, is that it resulted in MS claiming they were more standard-compliant than Netscape in CSS. | Jun 27 21:56 |
| MinceR | i haven't used chrome | Jun 27 21:56 |
| MinceR | i've only used chromium via crossover chromium | Jun 27 21:56 |
| MinceR | i was put off by the horrible failure that is windows font rendering | Jun 27 21:56 |
| fewa | both chromium and firefox are based on javascript | Jun 27 21:56 |
| MinceR | so i'm waiting for chromium to be completed | Jun 27 21:56 |
| fewa | for scripting the interfaces | Jun 27 21:56 |
| MinceR | and firefox is much slower than it should be | Jun 27 21:57 |
| MinceR | it also eats memory | Jun 27 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Yum | Jun 27 21:57 |
| fewa | firefox 3.5 is much, much better | Jun 27 21:57 |
| schestowitz | My hack didn't help | Jun 27 21:57 |
| schestowitz | about:config | Jun 27 21:57 |
| fewa | and ie sucks | Jun 27 21:57 |
| _Hicham_ | I am just building the newest firefox | Jun 27 21:57 |
| fewa | and IE's native code makes add-ons horrible | Jun 27 21:57 |
| _Hicham_ | it is today's | Jun 27 21:57 |
| MinceR | i'll see 3.5 when it reaches the repos. | Jun 27 21:57 |
| *schestowitz needs to killall firefox, it won't close because of rotten plguins | Jun 27 21:57 | |
| fewa | schestowitz, i use to keep a seperate profile for flash | Jun 27 21:58 |
| SeanTilley | Yeah, I gotta admit FF 3.0 is a memory hog sometimes, 3.5 less so. | Jun 27 21:58 |
| fewa | run flash in another firefox | Jun 27 21:58 |
| MinceR | also, i realized that recent poor performance was most likely related to ubuntu being "smart" and rewriting fstab to use UUIDs to find the swap | Jun 27 21:58 |
| MinceR | thus when i installed debian, ubuntu stopped using swap. | Jun 27 21:58 |
| fewa | whoops | Jun 27 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Badboy: http://www.starryhope.com/linux/2009/synchronize-tomboy-notes-with-dropbox/ | Jun 27 21:59 |
| fewa | UUIDS are good however | Jun 27 21:59 |
| MinceR | there was a reason i used a device node there instead of a UUID. | Jun 27 21:59 |
| _Hicham_ | great firefox | Jun 27 21:59 |
| fewa | imho | Jun 27 21:59 |
| _Hicham_ | gets better everyday | Jun 27 21:59 |
| MinceR | good, unless you install another distro and use the same swap partition | Jun 27 21:59 |
| fewa | but ubuntu should mess with things | Jun 27 21:59 |
| _Hicham_ | every mercurial version gots better | Jun 27 21:59 |
| fewa | it like to mess with your settings in ways debian never would | Jun 27 21:59 |
| MinceR | they tend to insist on mkswap-ing them again | Jun 27 21:59 |
| MinceR | which leads to a new UUID | Jun 27 21:59 |
| yuhong | I recently had to debunk a claim that JS is the next ActiveX. | Jun 27 22:00 |
| _Hicham_ | do u think I should put my firefox builds on my repo? | Jun 27 22:00 |
| fewa | yuhong, nutjobs | Jun 27 22:00 |
| fewa | yuhong, but interesting | Jun 27 22:00 |
| yuhong | http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1278983&cid=28445693 | Jun 27 22:00 |
| fewa | i mainly block javascript cause it makes having 100 tabs alot faster | Jun 27 22:02 |
| fewa | alot of sites have polling CPU-wasting javascript | Jun 27 22:02 |
| fewa | also wastes RAM | Jun 27 22:02 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : but it makes some sites unusable | Jun 27 22:03 |
| fewa | i allow sites | Jun 27 22:03 |
| yuhong | Look at my response also. | Jun 27 22:03 |
| fewa | fairly easy to do | Jun 27 22:03 |
| fewa | yuhong, yep, ActiveX had no security policy | Jun 27 22:03 |
| yuhong | Other than code signing. | Jun 27 22:03 |
| _Hicham_ | ActiveX is just a fucking technology from MS to fuck people | Jun 27 22:03 |
| fewa | ^^^^^^^^^ | Jun 27 22:04 |
| fewa | its not even technology | Jun 27 22:04 |
| fewa | thats a overstatement | Jun 27 22:04 |
| _Hicham_ | crapology | Jun 27 22:04 |
| fewa | its just another way of running a Windows(tm) program | Jun 27 22:04 |
| fewa | while pretending its open(tm) | Jun 27 22:04 |
| yuhong | Yep, I mentioned that in my responce. | Jun 27 22:04 |
| MinceR | 231950 < fewa> alot of sites have polling CPU-wasting javascript | Jun 27 22:05 |
| MinceR | see, this is my problem with implementing parts of a browser in js :> | Jun 27 22:05 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : use no script | Jun 27 22:06 |
| MinceR | and the waste of RAM. | Jun 27 22:06 |
| fewa | MinceR, browser javascript is audited and well-written | Jun 27 22:06 |
| fewa | javascript on pages can be horrible, you have no way of knowing | Jun 27 22:06 |
| MinceR | and as somebody mentioned, disabling js may lead to crippling the browser. | Jun 27 22:06 |
| fewa | chromium deals with this a bit with a task manager | Jun 27 22:06 |
| fewa | and multi-process | Jun 27 22:06 |
| fewa | the problem isnt javscirpt, but blindly executing foreign code (in a security context of course) | Jun 27 22:07 |
| _Hicham_ | multiprocess | Jun 27 22:07 |
| fewa | actually multi-threaded | Jun 27 22:08 |
| MinceR | chromium is supposed to be multiprocess | Jun 27 22:08 |
| fewa | using green threads | Jun 27 22:08 |
| MinceR | what are "green threads"? | Jun 27 22:08 |
| fewa | native | Jun 27 22:08 |
| MinceR | that's still not multiprocess | Jun 27 22:08 |
| fewa | idk, that term was used in reference to intrepred languages, python ruby etc | Jun 27 22:09 |
| fewa | and while they can be multi-threaded they may use internal thread so not SMP | Jun 27 22:09 |
| fewa | same thing with erlang | Jun 27 22:09 |
| MinceR | the whole hype was about freeing all the memory used by a tab after closing the tab by terminating the process and thus freeing its pages. | Jun 27 22:09 |
| fewa | SMP is also really important | Jun 27 22:09 |
| fewa | i often run into firefox at 100% of 1 core cause JS runs in a single process | Jun 27 22:10 |
| fewa | worker threads deal with this a little | Jun 27 22:10 |
| MinceR | if tabs share memory then that memory can't be freed when the tab is closed | Jun 27 22:10 |
| fewa | chromium still links related tabs together | Jun 27 22:10 |
| fewa | cause apparently javascript can talk to other pages | Jun 27 22:10 |
| MinceR | ideally they should terminate the process even when another page is loaded but i don't know if they do that | Jun 27 22:11 |
| fewa | ive never seen how that is dont however | Jun 27 22:11 |
| fewa | *done | Jun 27 22:11 |
| MinceR | that talking to other pages functionality should be limited and allowing it should be the privilege of the user | Jun 27 22:11 |
| MinceR | if it should exist at all | Jun 27 22:11 |
| fewa | makes sense to have the OS do what it is good at however | Jun 27 22:11 |
| MinceR | i don't really see what it's good for | Jun 27 22:11 |
| fewa | garbage collection etc | Jun 27 22:11 |
| fewa | its only for subpages | Jun 27 22:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/Why_free_software_shouldnt_depend_on_Mono_or_C | Jun 27 22:12 |
| fewa | pages that were spawned, alot of pages create iframes and write into them | Jun 27 22:12 |
| MinceR | ic | Jun 27 22:12 |
| fewa | but i dont really understand the limits | Jun 27 22:12 |
| MinceR | for the purposes of this discussion i considered iframes to be part of the tab/page | Jun 27 22:12 |
| fewa | google login pages often have a https iframe that does login | Jun 27 22:13 |
| fewa | and can change the address of the page | Jun 27 22:13 |
| MinceR | then again, navigating in a framed page could be tricky | Jun 27 22:13 |
| MinceR | i hate that https iframe trickery | Jun 27 22:13 |
| MinceR | they should be straightforward about using https | Jun 27 22:13 |
| MinceR | instead of leaving the user to guess whether the login form is secure or not | Jun 27 22:13 |
| MinceR | i've seen many sites throw me randomly between https and http | Jun 27 22:14 |
| MinceR | it's annoying | Jun 27 22:14 |
| fewa | MinceR, hey but its better than wikipedia and myspace that dont have _any_ password security | Jun 27 22:14 |
| MinceR | not a lot better -- if i don't know i'm secure i won't rely on it | Jun 27 22:15 |
| fewa | but yeah i hate the cross-domain logins, like with youtube/google and yahoo/flikr | Jun 27 22:15 |
| yuhong | http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1276637&cid=28415535 | Jun 27 22:15 |
| MinceR | cross-domain logins are even worse | Jun 27 22:15 |
| fewa | you have no control over what is happening | Jun 27 22:15 |
| MinceR | they tend to screw with limiting cookies to the originating domain | Jun 27 22:15 |
| MinceR | so i set up my browser to be somewhat secure | Jun 27 22:16 |
| MinceR | and sites randomly break | Jun 27 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Response to latest Blankenhorn FUD: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-06-26-008-39-OS-CY-0000 | Jun 27 22:16 |
| fewa | MinceR, how do you block that cross-domain sharing? | Jun 27 22:16 |
| fewa | thats the other thing with js, so many pages incude js from like 10 companies | Jun 27 22:17 |
| yuhong | About Apple and open source, and the difference between a open source development model and licensing. | Jun 27 22:17 |
| MinceR | in opera there's a setting to only allow cookies from the page i'm visiting | Jun 27 22:17 |
| fewa | you have to trust every one of those companies to not mess with the page | Jun 27 22:17 |
| MinceR | it seems ff has it too but i haven't enabled it yet | Jun 27 22:17 |
| fewa | MinceR, i have that, the cross-domain logins get around that somehow | Jun 27 22:17 |
| MinceR | yuhong: crApple's approach to FLOSS is "we've already robbed you blind so now we're going to kill you" | Jun 27 22:17 |
| MinceR | fewa: i see | Jun 27 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks to Linux and the least privilegies model, we are more or less protected | Jun 27 22:18 |
| _Hicham_ | compared to windows users | Jun 27 22:18 |
| MinceR | fewa: i'm not even sure javascript can be prevented from reading all the cookies | Jun 27 22:18 |
| fewa | http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Cross_Domain_Communication | Jun 27 22:18 |
| fewa | MinceR, there are HTTP-only cookies | Jun 27 22:18 |
| fewa | that can only be accessed by HTTP | Jun 27 22:18 |
| MinceR | fewa: can i tell which ones should be http-only? | Jun 27 22:18 |
| MinceR | then there's the question of whether stuff like adobe trash can handle my cookies | Jun 27 22:19 |
| MinceR | and then we didn't even mention trash cookies | Jun 27 22:19 |
| fewa | I proposed to firefox allowing embeds to disallow the including site from setting cookies | Jun 27 22:19 |
| yuhong | On the matter of open source, video games and iPhone applications, you should study the video game crash of 1983. | Jun 27 22:19 |
| yuhong | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_crash_of_1983 | Jun 27 22:19 |
| fewa | should be submitted to w3, allowing the master site to set the security/privacy policies of included content | Jun 27 22:19 |
| SeanTilley | Well, I'm gonna go fellas. They're selling my favorite Chinese tea up at the square. Be on later tonight. | Jun 27 22:20 |
| fewa | http://wiki.developers.facebook.com/index.php/Cross_Domain_Communication | Jun 27 22:20 |
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| fewa | trickery | Jun 27 22:20 |
| yuhong | Well, crApple is even less common to MS. | Jun 27 22:20 |
| yuhong | Well, crApple is even less common than M$. | Jun 27 22:20 |
| MinceR | yet they support the conspiracy to force software patents on the freer parts of the world. | Jun 27 22:22 |
| MinceR | and to force DRM on users everywhere. | Jun 27 22:22 |
| yuhong | Well, music DRM is now dead. | Jun 27 22:24 |
| MinceR | so they concentrate on movie DRM | Jun 27 22:24 |
| ThistleWeb | it's not dead yet, it's feeling better in fact, it thinks it'll go for a walk | Jun 27 22:24 |
| *EDavidBurg (n=edavidbu@unaffiliated/edavidburg) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 22:24 | |
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| yuhong | I know. | Jun 27 22:24 |
| EDavidBurg | twitter: There's a thread on ubuntuforums warning about you | Jun 27 22:25 |
| yuhong | On the matter of Apple, open source, and DRM politics, I often mention the example of PT_DENY_ATTACH used in iTunes being easily patched out. | Jun 27 22:25 |
| MinceR | they also support software DRM, but don't seem to be forcing it that much yet | Jun 27 22:25 |
| yuhong | Thanks to the xnu source code being open. | Jun 27 22:26 |
| MinceR | probably because there are very few games for macos | Jun 27 22:26 |
| fewa | yuhong, apple <3 DRM | Jun 27 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Gads. I have vi. http://www.ss64.com/bash/vi.html | Jun 27 22:26 |
| fewa | http://www.defectivebydesign.org/itunes-drm-free | Jun 27 22:26 |
| MinceR | yuhong: which only shows what they think of their users. | Jun 27 22:26 |
| yuhong | What is <3? | Jun 27 22:26 |
| fewa | heart | Jun 27 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 27 22:27 |
| EDavidBurg | Baby don't hurt me? | Jun 27 22:27 |
| schestowitz | yuhong lacks a heart | Jun 27 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Like in Wizard of Oz :-p | Jun 27 22:27 |
| fewa | :P | Jun 27 22:27 |
| yuhong | Funny. | Jun 27 22:27 |
| yuhong | I remember the Steve Jobs letter about DRM in music that BN called a PR stunt. | Jun 27 22:29 |
| yuhong | Now that music DRM is dead, what do you think in retrospect. | Jun 27 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Configure Bacula for Open Source Backups < http://www.enterprisestorageforum.com/continuity/features/article.php/3824806 > | Jun 27 22:29 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: it was a stunt | Jun 27 22:29 |
| fewa | yuhong, they still DRM their videos | Jun 27 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Apple is with DRM very passionately | Jun 27 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Keep up with DBD | Jun 27 22:29 |
| fewa | yuhong, they still use DRM to lock out the iPod and IPhone | Jun 27 22:30 |
| yuhong | True, the letter said nothing about DRM videos. | Jun 27 22:30 |
| fewa | to lock down their OS | Jun 27 22:30 |
| EDavidBurg | Everything apple does is PR. They are a PR firm that also sells consumer electronics. | Jun 27 22:30 |
| yuhong | Or any other kind of DRM. | Jun 27 22:30 |
| schestowitz | iLock | Jun 27 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Oooh. Shiny | Jun 27 22:30 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, yep | Jun 27 22:30 |
| yuhong | I would not go that far. | Jun 27 22:30 |
| schestowitz | Apple made its fan even love the DRM | Jun 27 22:30 |
| EDavidBurg | What DRM is in the OS? | Jun 27 22:31 |
| yuhong | On iPhone? | Jun 27 22:31 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, athats their new model | Jun 27 22:31 |
| fewa | yuhong, tons of DRM on the iPhone | Jun 27 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is now exploiting kids in adverts | Jun 27 22:31 |
| schestowitz | Associating a company run by thugs with 9-y-o kids | Jun 27 22:31 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: But what stuff have they put drm in? Do you had examples? | Jun 27 22:31 |
| yuhong | And the letter said nothing about that. | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/01/apple-shows-us-drms-true-colors | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | Apple uses DRM to lock iPhones to AT&T and Apple's iTunes App Store; | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | Apple uses DRM to prevent recent iPods from syncing with software other than iTunes (Apple claims it violates the DMCA to reverse engineer the hashing mechanism); | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | Apple claims that it uses DRM to prevent OS X from loading on generic Intel machines; | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | # | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | # Apple's new Macbooks feature DRM-laden video ports that only output certain content to "approved" displays;. | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | Apple requires iPod accessory vendors to use a licensed "authentication chip" in order to make accessories to access certain features on newer iPods and iPhones; | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | The iTunes Store will still lock down movies and TV programs with FairPlay DRM; | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | Audiobook files purchased through the iTunes Store will still be crippled by Audible's DRM restrictions. | Jun 27 22:32 |
| yuhong | Well, on OS X on non-Mac hardware that is another mess altogether. | Jun 27 22:32 |
| fewa | and its completely legal | Jun 27 22:33 |
| yuhong | Yep, the Steve Jobs letter talked about music DRM ONLY, as I remember. | Jun 27 22:33 |
| fewa | and Apple knows that | Jun 27 22:33 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: So if it's legal and profitable what's to stop them? | Jun 27 22:34 |
| fewa | legal agression | Jun 27 22:34 |
| fewa | also the DMCA is very vague | Jun 27 22:35 |
| MinceR | even then, jobs lied. | Jun 27 22:35 |
| yuhong | I think it was important, but yes be aware that it is only music DRM that was written about. | Jun 27 22:35 |
| MinceR | jobs happily bent over for record companies when some others didn't | Jun 27 22:35 |
| MinceR | that's why itunes was way behind with DRM-free music. | Jun 27 22:36 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: Why is apple wrong to use a common, legal and profitable technology? | Jun 27 22:36 |
| fewa | MinceR, BillG had been doing the same thing, but was too preoccupied | Jun 27 22:36 |
| ThistleWeb | there needs to be a balnce in that it's legal for companies to use whatever DRM they want, but it's also legal for anyone to break it, and share the fruits of their work with others to get round it | Jun 27 22:36 |
| MinceR | this is one way in which ballmer is better than jobs: ballmer at least openly supports DRM | Jun 27 22:36 |
| MinceR | while jobs lies about it. | Jun 27 22:36 |
| Heh, there are smear threads on BN "warning" people about BN. -> EDavidBurg: twitter: There's a thread on ubuntuforums warning about you | Jun 27 22:36 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.52.75) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 27 22:37 | |
| I saw the latest version of their smear, thanks. | Jun 27 22:37 | |
| yuhong | Well, did jobs really lie? | Jun 27 22:37 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, Apple misuses DRM and the DMCA to claim that noone can interoperate with their products, or use the products they bought for their own purposes | Jun 27 22:37 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: What good is drm if it's easily broken? | Jun 27 22:37 |
| As Roy pointed out, such attention means I've done something right. | Jun 27 22:37 | |
| yuhong | Don't forget again that Jobs talked about music DRM only, nothing else about DRM | Jun 27 22:37 |
| ThistleWeb | EDavidBurg: that's the moint | Jun 27 22:37 |
| ThistleWeb | point* | Jun 27 22:37 |
| yuhong | What did jobs lie about? | Jun 27 22:37 |
| *dlmarti has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 27 22:37 | |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: So? Don't buy their products. Capitalism. | Jun 27 22:37 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, a choice of masters is not freedom | Jun 27 22:38 |
| MinceR | yuhong: iirc jobs claimed he didn't want DRM but the record companies forced it on poor little apple | Jun 27 22:38 |
| MinceR | yuhong: yet crApple happily sold DRM-encumbered songs when some other services were selling DRM-free ones. | Jun 27 22:38 |
| ThistleWeb | MinceR: that's how I remmeber it too | Jun 27 22:38 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple played the victim then | Jun 27 22:38 |
| yuhong | Well, they did use DRM-free as a carrot for tiered pricing. | Jun 27 22:38 |
| MinceR | yuhong: also, the osx executable format has builtin support for DRM, which was way before all this. | Jun 27 22:38 |
| MinceR | not even windows does that, afaik | Jun 27 22:39 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, and Apple is using the DMCA to subvert the freedom of individuals, that is not capatilism | Jun 27 22:39 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: Well, when you overthrow the bourgeoisie, let me know, I've got some ideas about how to run the gulags more efficiently. | Jun 27 22:39 |
| yuhong | Yep, I remember such protected executables being used to lock in OS X to Apple's hardware. | Jun 27 22:39 |
| yuhong | They -> Record companies | Jun 27 22:39 |
| MinceR | crApple also funds the B$A which among other crimes was pushing for sw patents in the EU | Jun 27 22:39 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: Au contraire, it's a perfect example of capitalism. | Jun 27 22:40 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: nope, it's a subversion of the idea of capitalism. | Jun 27 22:40 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: I think there are more importat freedoms inyour life that what devices you put your music on; the so | Jun 27 22:40 |
| EDavidBurg | Te simple fact is you're buying into their system and you have to play by their rules. | Jun 27 22:41 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, no im not | Jun 27 22:41 |
| yuhong | Well, the record companies did use DRM-free as a carrot for tiered pricing for iTunes Store. | Jun 27 22:41 |
| fewa | people dont buy into Apples system , the DMCA and their aggressive tactics force it on people | Jun 27 22:41 |
| yuhong | It was well-documented. | Jun 27 22:42 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: The dcma forced you to buy a MacBook? | Jun 27 22:43 |
| schestowitz | My cousin has just been robbed: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/story/1116597.html | Jun 27 22:44 |
| yuhong | http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/itunes-tracks-soon-to-bid-farewell-to-blanket-99-pricing.ars | Jun 27 22:44 |
| fewa | schestowitz, your cousin? | Jun 27 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 27 22:45 |
| schestowitz | His dad just told me | Jun 27 22:45 |
| schestowitz | "WIOD (610) news and the Miami Herald had this story. Of course, Scott’s | Jun 27 22:45 |
| schestowitz | office had a lot of damage. I do not know how they were able to defeat the | Jun 27 22:45 |
| schestowitz | alarm system in Scott’s office." | Jun 27 22:45 |
| EDavidBurg | fewa: Do you whois all the people who disagree with you? | Jun 27 22:45 |
| yuhong | So Jobs didn't really lie here. | Jun 27 22:46 |
| ThistleWeb | I think of the Apple situation as if it was Ubuntu, and all your stuff was tied into other Ubuntu revenue streams, and you had a hellava time getting your Ubuntu system to work with anything else | Jun 27 22:46 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: Then use fedora. | Jun 27 22:47 |
| yuhong | On iTunes app and video game lock-in, I often mention the video game crash of 1983 | Jun 27 22:47 |
| ThistleWeb | the whole point is that you spend more and more money investing in Ubuntu only stuff that it'd be costly to switch away from Ubuntu | Jun 27 22:47 |
| ThistleWeb | that's how Apple work | Jun 27 22:47 |
| yuhong | That is how lock-in work in general. | Jun 27 22:48 |
| fewa | ThistleWeb, if everything was tied to Ubuntu you could still make unlimited copies of Ubuntu for unlimited number of system, into the infinite future | Jun 27 22:48 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: Welco | Jun 27 22:48 |
| ThistleWeb | when you buy an apple product like an iphone or ipod your buying an appliance, a gadget, you're not swearing an oath of lifelong loyalty to a company | Jun 27 22:48 |
| fewa | and you could also freely change it to suit your needs | Jun 27 22:49 |
| yuhong | BTW, iTunes charged .30 to remove the DRM, and has since the beginning of iTunes Plus when the DRM-free music was limited. | Jun 27 22:49 |
| EDavidBurg | What is wrong with that business model? You chose to enter the system. | Jun 27 22:49 |
| ThistleWeb | you may choose to use their services, but you shouldnt be forced to | Jun 27 22:49 |
| EDavidBurg | You aren't. | Jun 27 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Watch what Novell employees are doing: http://foodformonkeys.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-build-monodevelop-with-visual.html | Jun 27 22:50 |
| ThistleWeb | so you can sync your ipod without itunes and not have Apple fuck with you on the next update? | Jun 27 22:50 |
| yuhong | Later after they adopted the tiered pricing they made it so you could individually select the music you want to convert. | Jun 27 22:50 |
| EDavidBurg | This comes from someone with MacBook and an iPod touch. It's really not as much of an issue as you all make it out to be. | Jun 27 22:50 |
| ThistleWeb | you have TWO apple products, they're BUILT to work seamlessly together | Jun 27 22:51 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: You weren't forced to buy the iPod, were you? No, you | Jun 27 22:51 |
| ThistleWeb | step outside the bubble ans you have a different experience | Jun 27 22:51 |
| EDavidBurg | Bought into the system. | Jun 27 22:51 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, you chose the needle | Jun 27 22:51 |
| ThistleWeb | some peeps like to avoid getting addicted | Jun 27 22:52 |
| EDavidBurg | I also use Linux daily... Apple products are not a prison, really. | Jun 27 22:52 |
| ThistleWeb | what's your ipod experinece like on linux? | Jun 27 22:52 |
| ThistleWeb | what do you use to sync it | Jun 27 22:52 |
| EDavidBurg | How many people here actually use apple products frequently? | Jun 27 22:53 |
| ThistleWeb | how long does that app work before Apple shove an update to your device and break it | Jun 27 22:53 |
| ThistleWeb | locking you into iTunes | Jun 27 22:53 |
| yuhong | I am in Shoreline School District, which mostly use Macs. | Jun 27 22:53 |
| EDavidBurg | And how many people just had one bad experience, and then absorb | Jun 27 22:54 |
| EDavidBurg | What Roy says about apple? | Jun 27 22:54 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.52.75) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 22:54 | |
| ThistleWeb | Apple products aint a prison if you keep buying Apple stuff | Jun 27 22:54 |
| EDavidBurg | You buy into their system, you play by their rules. | Jun 27 22:54 |
| EDavidBurg | Sigh. | Jun 27 22:54 |
| ThistleWeb | under conditions set by Apple, and prices set by Apple | Jun 27 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Apple | Jun 27 22:55 |
| EDavidBurg | I use plenty of non apple stuff. | Jun 27 22:55 |
| yuhong | Yep. And I said before, Macs are better than Windows PCs in many ways, but freedom is not an advantage of Apple. | Jun 27 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | fuck Mac | Jun 27 22:55 |
| ThistleWeb | so, what do you use on Linux to sync your iPod, you never answered | Jun 27 22:55 |
| EDavidBurg | Like: everything except my laptop and iPod | Jun 27 22:55 |
| yuhong | Macs seems to become more popular, and th is good.at | Jun 27 22:55 |
| yuhong | Macs seems to become more popular, and that is good. | Jun 27 22:55 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: I don't, my music was already on the mac partition, why move it? | Jun 27 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | to synchronize your iPod, use banshee | Jun 27 22:56 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: let's use a work other than f* | Jun 27 22:56 |
| schestowitz | It's not pleasant for some people to read threough | Jun 27 22:56 |
| schestowitz | [not me] | Jun 27 22:56 |
| ThistleWeb | EDavidBurg: have you tried under Linux? | Jun 27 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : sorry | Jun 27 22:56 |
| EDavidBurg | There are 9001 guides on the internet on how to sync iPods on Linux. | Jun 27 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | make love to them? | Jun 27 22:56 |
| yuhong | Zune is worse however. | Jun 27 22:57 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.138.35) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 22:57 | |
| ThistleWeb | that may be, but how long do they stay current for before Apple force another update to break them | Jun 27 22:57 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: No, why would I? My music isn't on Linux. | Jun 27 22:57 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, make lurve to them | Jun 27 22:57 |
| yuhong | Than iPod, I mean. | Jun 27 22:57 |
| ThistleWeb | I almost bought an iPod but held back, I wouldn't be seen dead with one | Jun 27 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | wb senor tacone | Jun 27 22:58 |
| tacone | hey | Jun 27 22:58 |
| yuhong | BTW, on video game and iPhone lock-in, I often recommend studying the video game crash of 1983. | Jun 27 22:58 |
| EDavidBurg | I don't think apple does it on purpose... They just don't maintain compatibility for something they don't support. | Jun 27 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | some mp3 players can play ogg too | Jun 27 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | and they are way cheap | Jun 27 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | chinese ones | Jun 27 22:58 |
| yuhong | I have one of those. | Jun 27 22:58 |
| yuhong | But don't use it often. | Jun 27 22:58 |
| yuhong | And yes Apple seems to ignore Linux, and that is a good thing in geneal. | Jun 27 22:59 |
| ThistleWeb | the excuse I heard about ipod / ogg was that ogg was software decoding, where they do everything else on hardware so it reduces battery life, which smells of BS to me | Jun 27 22:59 |
| ThistleWeb | if they wanted to, they could add it to the others on HW | Jun 27 23:00 |
| ThistleWeb | they have their own formats to push though | Jun 27 23:00 |
| yuhong | BTW, do you know of any hardware decoders for ogg. | Jun 27 23:00 |
| yuhong | Such as AAC. | Jun 27 23:00 |
| ThistleWeb | "maintain compatibility"? wow, you're a good apologist, I hope you're being well paid for your work | Jun 27 23:01 |
| yuhong | Why? | Jun 27 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple break compatibility on purpose | Jun 27 23:02 |
| yuhong | And yes MS sometimes hire MS apologists. | Jun 27 23:03 |
| ThistleWeb | yuhong: they do indeed | Jun 27 23:03 |
| yuhong | Evidence? | Jun 27 23:03 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: does being affected by the RDF at least feel good or something? :> | Jun 27 23:03 |
| yuhong | Good think Apple is not that sleazy. | Jun 27 23:03 |
| Was looking at that Ubuntu troll thread. First, it's a busy board with new "light hearted threads" started ever few minutes. Second, get a load of the posting history of the guy who started it. | Jun 27 23:03 | |
| http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=61082484 | Jun 27 23:04 | |
| registered in December of 08 | Jun 27 23:04 | |
| bombs the place with gems like this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1195330#6 | Jun 27 23:04 | |
| EDavidBurg | Its really is impossible for this channel to argue without resorting to ad hominem | Jun 27 23:04 |
| yuhong | Apple is pretty good at design however, and that is why I cited that slashdot comment in the first place. | Jun 27 23:04 |
| Oh yeah. I can believe that. A real old time Unix guy... ha ha. | Jun 27 23:05 | |
| EDavidBurg | twitter: Youre quite... Thorough. | Jun 27 23:05 |
| yuhong | Steve Jobs is a good dictator. | Jun 27 23:06 |
| troll. | Jun 27 23:06 | |
| yuhong | Which was why it was used as an example in this comment. | Jun 27 23:06 |
| yuhong | They were discussing Linux on the desktop. | Jun 27 23:08 |
| MinceR | yuhong: what sort of design is crApple good at? | Jun 27 23:09 |
| yuhong | It is well documented, just Google for "Apple design". | Jun 27 23:09 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple are good at PR, and having their products work well together | Jun 27 23:09 |
| yuhong | Certainly. | Jun 27 23:10 |
| ThistleWeb | they are stylish (assuming you like the Apple style) | Jun 27 23:10 |
| yuhong | Steve Job's magic is well known. | Jun 27 23:10 |
| MinceR | yuhong: i'm not interested in propagand and the drooling of fanboys. | Jun 27 23:10 |
| MinceR | yuhong: i'm interested in what was that apple made and didn't completely suck design-wise. | Jun 27 23:11 |
| yuhong | I am not a fanboy, BTW, I am neutral. | Jun 27 23:11 |
| MinceR | apple style is making a toilet seat lid, sticking a crApple logo on it and having fanboys swoon. | Jun 27 23:11 |
| MinceR | yes, any fanboy would tell me he's neutral | Jun 27 23:11 |
| yuhong | I would not go that far. | Jun 27 23:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] afflicted by lethargy, skipped off vagabonds. pleasant visit to @abigailb's 30th party. lots of train nerdery and bad youtube. | Jun 27 23:12 | |
| MinceR | or even that he actually dislikes crApple but it's just so awesome he can't stay conscious. | Jun 27 23:12 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple do have a style about them, where you can tell its an Apple product even if the logo was missing | Jun 27 23:12 |
| ThistleWeb | I can see why peeps like them | Jun 27 23:12 |
| ThistleWeb | even if I wouldn't touch one | Jun 27 23:12 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess that's the straitjacket in the form of corporate branding | Jun 27 23:13 |
| yuhong | I used MacBook s in schooland my favorite feature of it was MagSafe. | Jun 27 23:13 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: Apples asthetic has been ripped off a lot, usually poorly. | Jun 27 23:14 |
| yuhong | I know! | Jun 27 23:14 |
| MinceR | ooh, magsafe | Jun 27 23:14 |
| MinceR | should be called MagBurn. | Jun 27 23:14 |
| EDavidBurg | MagSafe is cool | Jun 27 23:14 |
| MinceR | something that burns itself in normal use is hardly "safe" | Jun 27 23:14 |
| yuhong | It is hot, yes. | Jun 27 23:14 |
| yuhong | It doesn't in my exprience, but it is hot. | Jun 27 23:15 |
| MinceR | http://www.appledefects.com/?p=285 | Jun 27 23:15 |
| EDavidBurg | MinceR: Heh, I've heard about that. It's not too common though, no more than most tech products havig faults. | Jun 27 23:15 |
| MinceR | at least most tech products don't have an obnoxious cult following saying they're absolutely perfect. | Jun 27 23:15 |
| MinceR | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/06/apple_magsafe_lawsuit/ | Jun 27 23:15 |
| MinceR | yes, that's something we see about every other hardware company. | Jun 27 23:16 |
| MinceR | oh, wait. | Jun 27 23:16 |
| ThistleWeb | the differnece is that with Apple you have to pay Apple to fix something at prices Apple decide that you could replace or repair yourself with generic parts | Jun 27 23:16 |
| MinceR | if they're willing to repair at all. | Jun 27 23:16 |
| ThistleWeb | the lack of a user replaceable battery in their gadgets speaks volumes | Jun 27 23:17 |
| MinceR | http://go2xserve.com/ | Jun 27 23:17 |
| ThistleWeb | it's all about upsell | Jun 27 23:17 |
| MinceR | btw, something that burns itself in normal use isn't "cool" either. | Jun 27 23:17 |
| MinceR | it's all about what the stupidest of users can be made to put up with. | Jun 27 23:18 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: Im glad you've discovered apple's business model; you're quite good at describing it. You're not ao good at saying why it's wron | Jun 27 23:18 |
| yuhong | Well, MagSafe don't burn in normal use in my exprience, but yes it is a good play on the word "cool". | Jun 27 23:18 |
| EDavidBurg | G | Jun 27 23:18 |
| MinceR | i'm sure the people who complained about it put it on top of the stove. | Jun 27 23:19 |
| ThistleWeb | EDavidBurg: it's wrong beacuse you dont sign a loyalty agreement with Apple when you buy a product........you only buy a product | Jun 27 23:19 |
| MinceR | because as we all know, macbooks are really cool >> http://www.appledefects.com/?p=288 | Jun 27 23:19 |
| EDavidBurg | MinceR: If it burned in normal use it would have been recalled by the us government a long time ago | Jun 27 23:19 |
| MinceR | the lawsuit is still ongoing. | Jun 27 23:19 |
| MinceR | so don't put all your bets on it not being recalled. | Jun 27 23:20 |
| yuhong | And they did recall some Apple power adapters. | Jun 27 23:20 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: You choose to use their products. Don like their system, don't use it. | Jun 27 23:20 |
| MinceR | i know it can feel bad to find out that the product you've paid so much for is a piece of crap, so i'll cut you some slack. | Jun 27 23:20 |
| MinceR | i don't choose to use their products because their products suck and because they're evil. | Jun 27 23:21 |
| ThistleWeb | are apple upfront to new customers that they are going to get addicted? | Jun 27 23:21 |
| _Hicham_ | be a man, a use Linux | Jun 27 23:21 |
| schestowitz | "My name is sendmail.cf. You killed my process. Prepare to vi." | Jun 27 23:21 |
| EDavidBurg | See, why is this a crusade? No one is evil! It's silicon! | Jun 27 23:21 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder how many peeps find out AFTER spending a fortune with apple that their investment only works with apple products | Jun 27 23:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Apple is a great company | Jun 27 23:22 |
| yuhong | Yes, you can always avoid Apple if you want. | Jun 27 23:22 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: [for me to ppop- on]? | Jun 27 23:22 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: The allure of apple products is the whole apple ecosystem surrouding it. They market it as a way of life. | Jun 27 23:22 |
| _Hicham_ | they produce high quality s/w | Jun 27 23:22 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: So, sort of. | Jun 27 23:22 |
| ThistleWeb | yep AKA a cult | Jun 27 23:22 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Jun 27 23:22 |
| fewa | yuhong, video game crash article is interesting | Jun 27 23:22 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: jobs is evil and isn't silicon. | Jun 27 23:22 |
| _Hicham_ | video games are essential | Jun 27 23:23 |
| yuhong | I don't believe jobs is evil. | Jun 27 23:23 |
| EDavidBurg | ThistleWeb: Linux and foss is a cult if apple is. | Jun 27 23:23 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: anyone who campaigns for sw patents and DRM is evil. | Jun 27 23:23 |
| MinceR | oh, now one needs to be religious to want freedom? | Jun 27 23:23 |
| fewa | MinceR, agreed | Jun 27 23:23 |
| MinceR | that's an interesting angle right there. | Jun 27 23:23 |
| yuhong | Yep, BS. | Jun 27 23:24 |
| ThistleWeb | yep one cult says follow us and obey our rules, thou shall not look elsewhere, another cult says free your mind, choose your own path | Jun 27 23:24 |
| fewa | companies that lobby for the government to mandate the loss of freedom | Jun 27 23:24 |
| MinceR | a strange cult. :> | Jun 27 23:24 |
| _Hicham_ | free s/w and proprietary one should exist together | Jun 27 23:24 |
| EDavidBurg | MinceR: Really? You're using the same words to describe Steve jobs as you would mass murderers? | Jun 27 23:24 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: yes i am. | Jun 27 23:24 |
| yuhong | Agreed that is BS also. | Jun 27 23:24 |
| _Hicham_ | Steve Jobs is sick | Jun 27 23:24 |
| _Hicham_ | don't say sthg bad about him | Jun 27 23:24 |
| EDavidBurg | Put down the lance. This is not a crusade. This is a computer. | Jun 27 23:24 |
| fewa | EDavidBurg, Apple is responsible for huge amounts of toxic waste | Jun 27 23:25 |
| ThistleWeb | on a side point, what happens to Apple after Jobs? | Jun 27 23:25 |
| fewa | cadmium, mercury | Jun 27 23:25 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: sorry, i have no patience for those who want to take my freedom away and tell me how i should live my life. | Jun 27 23:25 |
| EDavidBurg | Use what you like. Live and let live. | Jun 27 23:25 |
| fewa | these things kill | Jun 27 23:25 |
| MinceR | ThistleWeb: hopefully they die finally.. | Jun 27 23:25 |
| ThistleWeb | they built the PR around him being the genius behind all the success | Jun 27 23:25 |
| ThistleWeb | regardless of how much is really true | Jun 27 23:25 |
| MinceR | the only thing behind that success is human stupidity, especially usanian human stupidity. | Jun 27 23:26 |
| fewa | when Steve dies Apple is toast | Jun 27 23:26 |
| ThistleWeb | how do they move away from that without damaging him? | Jun 27 23:26 |
| fewa | it will be just like under scully | Jun 27 23:26 |
| yuhong | I would not go that far. | Jun 27 23:26 |
| ThistleWeb | they've known this for a while and gradually tried to spread Job's roles out | Jun 27 23:26 |
| ThistleWeb | but Jobs has always been there | Jun 27 23:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Not upgrading to #7? Imran Hussain thinks you could be lazy/ignorant (or both) http://tinyurl.com/n5fqc5 New article on Openbytes #microsoft | Jun 27 23:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Linux Benchmark Toolkit is Coming http://ping.fm/gSQKy | Jun 27 23:27 | |
| yuhong | But yep that Apple-NeXT-Be disaster was just stupid. | Jun 27 23:27 |
| fewa | and tried to mandate DRM so they have a legacy product to milk | Jun 27 23:27 |
| tacone | _Hicham_: people said jobs is sick many times. not everytime referring to his phisical health | Jun 27 23:27 |
| ThistleWeb | I doubt they will go under, but I reckon they will stumble | Jun 27 23:27 |
| ThistleWeb | peeps associate Jobs with the midas touch, that everything he OK's is an insta-hit | Jun 27 23:28 |
| ThistleWeb | which is funny given the ammount of revisionist treatment the media get with Apple deleting referneces to stuff | Jun 27 23:28 |
| fewa | _Goblin, lol, Vista 7 cause they are lazy, they have hit rock bottom | Jun 27 23:28 |
| yuhong | MS is lazy? I would not go that far. | Jun 27 23:29 |
| yuhong | But yes Apple is obsessed with secrecy. | Jun 27 23:29 |
| fewa | no that users are lazy | Jun 27 23:29 |
| fewa | you missed the point | Jun 27 23:29 |
| ThistleWeb | when a group of peeps need to OJK new products and ideas, there wont be the same certainty, and Apple will put out some duffers, specially if they try to "inovate" rather than just re-release the old stuff with a new version number | Jun 27 23:29 |
| fewa | that somehow users want to spend their time and money to get nothing in return | Jun 27 23:30 |
| fewa | that somehow they should appreciate the _priviliage_ of moving to Vista 7 | Jun 27 23:30 |
| yuhong | Yep, have you heard of design by committee? | Jun 27 23:30 |
| Wow, a useful and funny comment in a Slashdot thread -> '[RMS on mono] It's akin to saying that it is good to have support for FAT filesystems in Linux, but stupid to include a FAT partition by default when installing Linux along with applications that only work on FAT." | Jun 27 23:30 | |
| _Goblin | sorry I was afk | Jun 27 23:31 |
| EDavidBurg | I'd like to think my argument has left you speechless, but it's probably more likely that your tirades in response are not yet complete. | Jun 27 23:31 |
| fewa | twitter, exactly makes the point | Jun 27 23:31 |
| _Goblin | yep fewa: if youre not upgrading to 7, you could be ignorant/lazy | Jun 27 23:31 |
| yuhong | twitter: Indeed Linux distros are not that stupid. | Jun 27 23:31 |
| fewa | _Goblin, because not obeying M$ means your stupid | Jun 27 23:31 |
| _Goblin | don't forget "on recent technology" 7 is better than XP. | Jun 27 23:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sun-like (Not Apple Which Only Imitated) Docks for GNU/Linux Desktop http://ping.fm/OBGsB | Jun 27 23:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "The platform currently only supports Linux applications." http://ping.fm/pvObk | Jun 27 23:32 | |
| yuhong | Yep. | Jun 27 23:32 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg: which one of your "arguments" are you so enthralled by? | Jun 27 23:32 |
| _Goblin | I've learnt something...there was me thinking that just because my Z81 was nearly 30 years old, it isn't better than a top of the range PC. | Jun 27 23:32 |
| fewa | MinceR, ignore the troll when he gets deperate for attention | Jun 27 23:33 |
| MinceR | sorry. | Jun 27 23:33 |
| _Goblin | Hi EDavid...whats the claim today? Face on Mars is actually that of Ballmer? | Jun 27 23:33 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 27 23:34 |
| yuhong | Steve Jobs was able to project his personality into Apple itself. | Jun 27 23:34 |
| _Goblin | More likely the face on Uranus. | Jun 27 23:34 |
| MinceR | lol | Jun 27 23:34 |
| fewa | _Goblin, problem is that Vista 7 doesnt support many users hardware, their software, etc | Jun 27 23:34 |
| _Goblin | thats not a problem....you can buy more. | Jun 27 23:34 |
| yuhong | I think that is invitiable. | Jun 27 23:34 |
| _Goblin | its just lazy if you dont. | Jun 27 23:34 |
| yuhong | BTW, I don't use Vista 7 either, I use WIndows 7 or just shorten it to 7. | Jun 27 23:35 |
| _Goblin | Im sure MS will have a new Mojave for Vista 7 to "prove" everyone wrong. | Jun 27 23:35 |
| fewa | _Goblin, lazy to not buy new hardware when what you have works just fine? | Jun 27 23:36 |
| yuhong | Maybe, you don't really know. | Jun 27 23:36 |
| yuhong | Yep, I know about the upgrade cycle. | Jun 27 23:36 |
| fewa | Windows 7 even identifys itsself as Windows 6.1 | Jun 27 23:36 |
| fewa | ie Vista.1 | Jun 27 23:36 |
| _Goblin | according to Imran....everyones Lazy if they dont upgrade. | Jun 27 23:36 |
| yuhong | Yep, and the server version is called Windows Server 2008 R2. | Jun 27 23:36 |
| fewa | thats why its proper name is Vista 7 | Jun 27 23:37 |
| _Goblin | For those that are reading my posts that don't know me, I am of course being sarcastic. | Jun 27 23:37 |
| MinceR | "windows server" is a joke. | Jun 27 23:37 |
| _Goblin | I dont think many Windows users are laughing though. | Jun 27 23:37 |
| yuhong | But that is a different matter. | Jun 27 23:38 |
| fewa | http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2007/fall/antifeatures/ | Jun 27 23:38 |
| yuhong | I know. | Jun 27 23:38 |
| _Goblin | not a problem though, just dig into your pocket and upgrade. | Jun 27 23:38 |
| _Goblin | there's always something "better" to buy from Microsoft. | Jun 27 23:38 |
| *EDavidBurg (n=edavidbu@unaffiliated/edavidburg) has left #boycottnovell | Jun 27 23:38 | |
| fewa | ahh, i think alot of clueful windows users are realizing | Jun 27 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Windows server is paradox | Jun 27 23:38 |
| _Goblin | by David... | Jun 27 23:38 |
| _Goblin | *bye | Jun 27 23:38 |
| yuhong | But that is a different matter, I was referring to the server version of 7. | Jun 27 23:39 |
| fewa | Many users noticed that NTW and NTS were very similar. Digging further, an analysis published by O'Reilly revealed the kernel, and in fact every binary file included in NTW, was identical to those shipped in NTS. | Jun 27 23:39 |
| _Goblin | Whats 7? You mean Vista 7? | Jun 27 23:39 |
| fewa | they are _identical_ | Jun 27 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Well, INF changes | Jun 27 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Many different packages | Jun 27 23:39 |
| yuhong | _Goblin: Yes, but I don't use that name. | Jun 27 23:39 |
| schestowitz | And maybe a different Steve 'blesses' them | Jun 27 23:39 |
| fewa | Vista.1 | Jun 27 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Let us pray | Jun 27 23:40 |
| yuhong | Server 2008 R2 | Jun 27 23:40 |
| schestowitz | The make-or-drek edition | Jun 27 23:40 |
| yuhong | But not like Apple. | Jun 27 23:40 |
| ThistleWeb | seraly beloved, we are here to take to this thing called life, an amazing thing life , it can mean many things.......and here's where my memory of Let's Go Crazy by Prince fails ne lol | Jun 27 23:41 |
| ThistleWeb | it can mean forever, and that's a mighty long time. let me tell ya | Jun 27 23:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Gets Gaming Distros http://ping.fm/OCwUd | Jun 27 23:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat and Others Abandon Xen After Acquisition by Microsoft's Bride http://ping.fm/AfRMP | Jun 27 23:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[fsmag] nstalled #Twitterfox addon update! Bugs fixed and it now supports #Songbird http://fsmsh.com/3047 #fsmag #freesoftware. | Jun 27 23:42 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!n=DaemonXP@*.hsd1.in.comcast.net | Jun 27 23:43 | |
| *dlmarti (n=David@dsl092-055-171.phl1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 27 23:44 | |
| _Goblin | yuhong: I was being flippant. | Jun 27 23:45 |
| MinceR | rightly so. | Jun 27 23:45 |
| _Goblin | I was well aware of what 7 is (afterall Ive just used it on an article) | Jun 27 23:45 |
| yuhong | [schestowitz] "The platform currently only supports Linux applications." http://ping.fm/pvObk | Jun 27 23:46 |
| _Goblin | I hope EDavid comes back... | Jun 27 23:46 |
| yuhong | Ok wait. | Jun 27 23:46 |
| MinceR | i hope he doesn't | Jun 27 23:46 |
| MinceR | we can get as many crApple cultists as we want anyway. | Jun 27 23:46 |
| yuhong | Link is correct, sorry. | Jun 27 23:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Board Support for Linux http://ping.fm/AQJzR http://ping.fm/Mo5u6 | Jun 27 23:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IGEL Renews Its Linux Terminal Firmware http://ping.fm/e25Iz | Jun 27 23:47 | |
| _Goblin | is he Crapple? | Jun 27 23:47 |
| _Goblin | I thought he was a ballmerboy. | Jun 27 23:47 |
| MinceR | could be both | Jun 27 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Linusux | Jun 27 23:47 |
| schestowitz | /u | Jun 27 23:47 |
| MinceR | after all, m$ and crApple love each other, even if they sometimes pretend the opposite | Jun 27 23:47 |
| MinceR | and so do their fanboys. | Jun 27 23:47 |
| yuhong | I am neutral. | Jun 27 23:47 |
| _Goblin | ah Lin*** is that "site" still going? | Jun 27 23:48 |
| MinceR | yuhong: keep telling us that, maybe we'll believe you eventually. not. | Jun 27 23:48 |
| yuhong | MinceR: Yep that relationship is interesting. | Jun 27 23:48 |
| _Goblin | Yuhong: You say you are neutral right? | Jun 27 23:48 |
| MinceR | maybe when their empires collapse, they'll merge for one last desperate strike against users. | Jun 27 23:48 |
| yuhong | Well, I never critise either Mac, Windows, or Linux. | Jun 27 23:49 |
| _Goblin | Would you then agree that Vista was a catastrophic failure for MS and users are best advised to stick with XP? | Jun 27 23:49 |
| yuhong | MinceR: Unlikely. | Jun 27 23:49 |
| yuhong | _Goblin: Yes I don't think either Vista or XP is bad. | Jun 27 23:49 |
| MinceR | well, it's more likely that m$ will collapse first. | Jun 27 23:49 |
| tacone | i never criticize ballmer | Jun 27 23:49 |
| _Goblin | eh? | Jun 27 23:49 |
| yuhong | Agree. | Jun 27 23:49 |
| tacone | i only report what others say :P | Jun 27 23:49 |
| MinceR | and then the rabid m$ fanboys will flock to crApple | Jun 27 23:50 |
| yuhong | Which is IMO good. | Jun 27 23:50 |
| MinceR | (the ones that have it can even keep their *bsd fanboyism there) | Jun 27 23:50 |
| _Goblin | so if you dont critisize Mac/Linux/MS you infact don't have any opinion at all? | Jun 27 23:50 |
| yuhong | Yes. | Jun 27 23:50 |
| tacone | apple deserves a lesson | Jun 27 23:50 |
| MinceR | apple deserves death. that would be a lesson to others. | Jun 27 23:50 |
| yuhong | I would not go that far. | Jun 27 23:50 |
| tacone | MinceR: not that far, please. | Jun 27 23:51 |
| _Goblin | So then the question needs to be asked, why come into a chat room when you dont have an opinion on anything? | Jun 27 23:51 |
| MinceR | _Goblin: we'll give him one. :> | Jun 27 23:51 |
| yuhong | Because I like to discuss this stuff. | Jun 27 23:51 |
| tacone | should be say that death for a company is just to fail | Jun 27 23:51 |
| _Goblin | Yuhong: but you said yourself you dont critisize any of them. | Jun 27 23:51 |
| yuhong | No, but I like to discuss. | Jun 27 23:52 |
| MinceR | so what's left for him is to praise all of them. :> | Jun 27 23:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nokia Chooses GNU/Linux -- Not Symbian -- for Sub-notebooks http://ping.fm/5PpVY | Jun 27 23:52 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, failed Apple would do good | Jun 27 23:52 |
| yuhong | I would not go that far. | Jun 27 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Others would take over at its expense | Jun 27 23:52 |
| _Goblin | yuhong: and how does one discuss without opinion? | Jun 27 23:52 |
| ThistleWeb | _Goblin: you might say that, I couldn't possibly comment ;) | Jun 27 23:52 |
| schestowitz | More ethical players | Jun 27 23:52 |
| yuhong | But on crApple, substitute A with an i. | Jun 27 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Not brainwash Disney-obsessed Kawasaki-type PR firms. | Jun 27 23:52 |
| yuhong | I do have an opinion on that issue. | Jun 27 23:52 |
| MinceR | people won't recognize cripple as apple. | Jun 27 23:53 |
| MinceR | crApple is obvious. :> | Jun 27 23:53 |
| yuhong | Yes, but the substition would be funny. | Jun 27 23:53 |
| _Goblin | so yuhong, whats youre OS of preference? | Jun 27 23:53 |
| _Goblin | or do you tripple boot? | Jun 27 23:53 |
| ThistleWeb | the scary thing is that Apple do have some good products, if they took the digital straitjacket off them they'd be much more of a force than they are now | Jun 27 23:54 |
| yuhong | I run Windows and Linux dual-boot and my school uses Macs. | Jun 27 23:54 |
| _Goblin | why do you dual boot Linux? | Jun 27 23:54 |
| _Goblin | what advantage does Linux have over Windows for you? | Jun 27 23:54 |
| yuhong | To try it. | Jun 27 23:54 |
| _Goblin | right...and? | Jun 27 23:55 |
| yuhong | I like the exprience so far. | Jun 27 23:55 |
| ThistleWeb | night all | Jun 27 23:55 |
| _Goblin | gn | Jun 27 23:55 |
| yuhong | It is a good OS. | Jun 27 23:55 |
| MinceR | do or do not. there is no try. | Jun 27 23:55 |
| MinceR | ;) | Jun 27 23:55 |
| _Goblin | what do you like? whats good? | Jun 27 23:55 |
| MinceR | gn ThistleWeb | Jun 27 23:55 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jun 27 23:55 | |
| yuhong | I like all three and think they are good. | Jun 27 23:55 |
| _Goblin | no..thats not what I asked. | Jun 27 23:55 |
| _Goblin | What do you like about Linux...we will come onto the others shortly. | Jun 27 23:55 |
| yuhong | What I don't agree with is that failed Apple would do good. | Jun 27 23:56 |
| _Goblin | eh? | Jun 27 23:56 |
| _Goblin | No. What do you like about Linux? | Jun 27 23:56 |
| _Goblin | sorry, please tell me if I'm making the question too difficult. | Jun 27 23:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Glimpse at a Very Attractive New Sub-notebook Distribution of GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/FSfYY | Jun 27 23:57 | |
| schestowitz | it's hard to answer when you don't use Linux | Jun 27 23:57 |
| yuhong | It is nice, and I like it because it is open source and provides freedom. | Jun 27 23:57 |
| _Goblin | lol. | Jun 27 23:57 |
| _Goblin | so youre a coder? | Jun 27 23:57 |
| _Goblin | theres open source apps for Windows....what do you like about Linux? | Jun 27 23:58 |
| yuhong | Yes, and I am learning more about Linux programming. | Jun 27 23:58 |
| _Goblin | ah....Linux programming eh? | Jun 27 23:58 |
| _Goblin | So you like the freedom of Linux and at the same time the "prison" of Microsoft? | Jun 27 23:58 |
| _Goblin | youre a sort of transient being between two idealogies? | Jun 27 23:59 |
| yuhong | Not really, I am neutral on that as well. | Jun 27 23:59 |
| _Goblin | marvellous... | Jun 27 23:59 |
| _Goblin | Im sure you are... | Jun 27 23:59 |
| yuhong | But I do believe artificial scarcity is a bad thing. | Jun 27 23:59 |
| tacone | neutrality is good | Jun 27 23:59 |
| _Goblin | ok so freedom aside (I feel Im cross examining here) what does Linux offer you that Windows doesnt. | Jun 27 23:59 |
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