IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 21st, 2009

ul 21 00:00:26 <sebsebseb>schestowitz: if I have this correct, open source is just a development model, it's a way to make software and that's that, where as with free software it's pretty much the same thing reallly, except they care much more about the freedoms that are gained
sebsebseband open source is likely  to get commercial branding, where as free software won't?Jul 21 00:01
mikankunyeah open source is more of a development model while free software is more of a philosophyJul 21 00:01
oiaohmProblem is not everyone working on open source are doing it for free.Jul 21 00:02
oiaohmTo be correct most are not.Jul 21 00:02
mikankunthe term open source came about from people wanting to promote free software to businesses without talking about freedomJul 21 00:02
sebsebsebmikankun: did it oh?Jul 21 00:02
oiaohmLot are paid to do tech support.Jul 21 00:02
oiaohmOr added features there company wants mikankunJul 21 00:02
schestowitzSwine flu will [enter scare words here]... 21 00:03
oiaohmMS CPAL normally does not cover everyone working on open source projects.Jul 21 00:03
sebsebsebFirefox  is freesoftware nope,   the Debian thing,  etc.    FSF having a version of their own etcJul 21 00:03
mikankunoiahm; I know. Stallman himself made money by adding things to emacs for different companiesJul 21 00:03
*mkhelp (i=R1@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 00:03
*mkhelp (i=R1@ has left #boycottnovellJul 21 00:04
mikankunfirefox is free softwareJul 21 00:04
oiaohmFirefox is still classed as free software.Jul 21 00:04
schestowitzNoJul 21 00:04
schestowitzMPLJul 21 00:04
sebsebsebif Firefox is free software,  why is  there Iceweasel in Debian?Jul 21 00:04
oiaohmTrademark is protected.Jul 21 00:05
mikankunbecause firefox images are trademarkedJul 21 00:05
sebsebsebexactlyJul 21 00:05
sebsebsebthe code is open sourceJul 21 00:05
sebsebsebwhich meansJul 21 00:05
oiaohmProgram is still freesoftwareJul 21 00:05
sebsebseba  proper free software version can be made using that code, however the program itself surely isn't free software, because of the trademarks and branding?Jul 21 00:05
oiaohmYou can still take it rework it.Jul 21 00:05
oiaohmIf you read GPL licencing.Jul 21 00:05
oiaohmYou will find it strictly forbid what Debian did.Jul 21 00:06
sebsebsebalso surely true free software has to be lisensed under the GPL :)Jul 21 00:06
schestowitzThink Chromium/ChromeJul 21 00:06
oiaohmIe patch program and not alter version to show it as such.Jul 21 00:06
mikankunthe MPL is a GPL compatible free software licenseJul 21 00:06
sebsebsebschestowitz: yep   Chrome is     Chromium with Google's propritary stuffJul 21 00:06
schestowitzRHEL for artwordJul 21 00:07
schestowitz*workJul 21 00:07
sebsebsebschestowitz: hmm?  and quite a few versions distros out there, that are Redhat without it's brandingJul 21 00:07
schestowitz4 I know ifJul 21 00:07
schestowitz*ofJul 21 00:07
sebsebsebas for Ubuntu it's obviosuly a mixture of  open source and free software,   hence also  why there is gnewsense and suchJul 21 00:08
sebsebseband the branding yeahJul 21 00:08
schestowitzoiaohm: Cisco might not be as rich as you suggested 21 00:08
mikankunthe ubuntu repositories contain non-free softwareJul 21 00:08
sebsebsebmikankun: some of themJul 21 00:08
schestowitzThere's also what Slated calls "poisonware"Jul 21 00:08
schestowitzLike MonoJul 21 00:08
schestowitzWith MCP and some exclusionsJul 21 00:09
sebsebsebhere we go the Mono hate :DJul 21 00:09
mikankunyeah I know not all of themJul 21 00:09
schestowitz"If you threaten to sue people when you get butthurt … don’t even bother." 21 00:10
schestowitzHehe.Jul 21 00:10
oiaohm66,558 employees << note staff numbers.Jul 21 00:10
oiaohm2000 is not many.Jul 21 00:10
schestowitzNo rumours about more MS layoffsJul 21 00:10
oiaohmThinking downturn stoped a lot of hardware updateds.Jul 21 00:10
schestowitzJust a modest proposal from mini-MicrosoftJul 21 00:10
schestowitzIf layoffs come next week, nobody spoke about itJul 21 00:11
schestowitztacone here: 21 00:11
*pk has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 00:13
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 00:16
schestowitzByfield has just published about RMS and cult of VIrgin MaryJul 21 00:25
schestowitzAs expected, he took the side that's against RMSJul 21 00:25
schestowitzI don't think balance was fair there at allJul 21 00:25
sebsebsebschestowitz: what's this>Jul 21 00:26
sebsebseb?Jul 21 00:26
schestowitz 21 00:27
twittergnewsense is ubuntu without non free drivers, flash and other non free software.  -> sebsebseb: as for Ubuntu it's obviosuly a mixture of  open source and free software,   hence also  why there is gnewsense and suchJul 21 00:27
*Hammerhead ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 00:29
Hammerheadvisio guru's?Jul 21 00:29
schestowitzWho wants op for the night?Jul 21 00:29
sebsebsebschestowitz: me,  but  I may not be here in a few hours or soJul 21 00:30
schestowitzHeh. Net Freedom: Italian Blog Strike < >xJul 21 00:30
schestowitzsebsebseb: I would trust someone who has been here for a long time to build trustJul 21 00:30
sebsebsebschestowitz: I thought I might get refused :)  it's ok thoughJul 21 00:30
schestowitzWe just had trolls here recently, so we need to leave it guardedJul 21 00:31
sebsebsebtwitter: yep and I  used it in vm beforeJul 21 00:31
sebsebsebschestowitz: well   anti  Novell  stuff is going to  attract  some trolls,  for obvious reasons,  as in not everyone will agree,  and  others may not even care,  but  want to troll some where, because they think it's funJul 21 00:33
schestowitzgnu/opensolaris might never be a realityJul 21 00:33
schestowitzNot under the guard of Oracle. They don't care about freedomJul 21 00:33
sebsebsebyeah  opensolaris on the desktop seems  pointless,  well it's really a server OS and such?Jul 21 00:34
twitterIs there enough of OpenSolaris that's free for it to live on it's own?Jul 21 00:34
schestowitzOracle has btrfsJul 21 00:34
sebsebseboh there are some OS's out there that use  the opensolaris kernel,   I  have even tried one or two or three or whatever in vm  recentlyish,  not a proper try thoughJul 21 00:35
twitterPhillips uses SolarisJul 21 00:35
schestowitzIt could mix some stuff with zfs and make a better LinuxJul 21 00:35
schestowitztwitter: also Windows in scanner front endJul 21 00:35
sebsebsebscanner front end???Jul 21 00:35
twitterEnough people use Solaris that they might want to liberate it if Oracle decides to kill.Jul 21 00:35
schestowitzFree from Philips, iRex launches A4 e-book reader 21 00:36
schestowitzPhilips patent racket: Philips could be in the firing line after Sisvel's Berlin patent raids < >Jul 21 00:36
twitterIt might be easier to liberate Solaris than it would be to port all the legacy code that runs on top.Jul 21 00:37
sebsebsebtwitter: well   opensolaris and  Java and  Virtualbox  are  open source,  so  if  Oracale mess them up,  the code  will get forked and live on as something else I expectJul 21 00:37
twitterIan Murdock said that Solaris 11 was going to be Open Solaris.Jul 21 00:37
twitterThere's a lot of scientific software that runs on Solaris, though much of it has been ported to GNU/Linux for obvious reasons.Jul 21 00:38
schestowitzPossibleJul 21 00:38
schestowitzOOSolarisJul 21 00:38
notzedi tried opensolaris on a new box.  it didn't even boot.  on and old box it was just way too slow to start up to be competetive with linux as a desktop osJul 21 00:39
schestowitzOracle OpenSolarisJul 21 00:39
schestowitzWith OOoJul 21 00:39
schestowitzOOOoJul 21 00:39
schestowitzOracle OpenOffice.orgJul 21 00:39
sebsebsebuhJul 21 00:39
sebsebsebhas it been renamed?Jul 21 00:39
sebsebsebalready?Jul 21 00:39
schestowitzOOS+OOOo   ooooooooooooo! ShinyJul 21 00:39
schestowitzOracle office=OrificeJul 21 00:40
schestowitzInstead of seagulls the branding is a sharkJul 21 00:40
twitterOne of the most popular radiation therapy treatment planning systems runs on top of Solaris, so does a lot of other radiation transport code.Jul 21 00:40
*Lns has quit ("Φ")Jul 21 00:40
twitterSun used to make very hard to beat workstations.Jul 21 00:41
sebsebsebnotzed: Open Office still has the Sun branding for nowJul 21 00:41
sebsebseb:)Jul 21 00:41
sebsebsebit seemsJul 21 00:41
twitterNow serious work gets done on GNU/Linux clusters, but it would be nice if Sun liberated enough of Solaris to work their hardware as well as x86 cruft.Jul 21 00:42
sebsebsebseems some of you don't like Oracale,    and yeah  Sun have made them selves or bought out some interesting productsJul 21 00:42
twitterWhat's to like about Oracle ?Jul 21 00:42
sebsebsebinteresting programsJul 21 00:42
twittersuch as?Jul 21 00:43
sebsebsebtwitter: I don't really know anything about them,  except that they  have  a  commercial  database which is very popular,  and they also have it for Linux :)Jul 21 00:43
sebsebsebtwitter: Virtualbox :)   that was a good buy from InnotekJul 21 00:43
oiaohmBranding of Openoffice will only change when the transfer is fully complete.Jul 21 00:43
sebsebsebtwitter: Java is  pretty popular,  and Open Office,   sadly  Open Office isn't popular enough to compete properly against Microsoft OfficeJul 21 00:44
twitterI was asking what of interest Oracle has... and now they have it all.  Ahhhh.Jul 21 00:44
oiaohmIssue here openoffice really is not trying against Ms Office.Jul 21 00:44
sebsebsebtwitter: and now they have it all?Jul 21 00:45
oiaohmMajor changes will happen to openoffice due to Koffice heading to windows and mac.Jul 21 00:45
sebsebsebwell not exactly,  I mean Google also have some great apps :)Jul 21 00:45
twitterOpen Office has competed with that M$ cruft rather well.Jul 21 00:45
schestowitzMicrosoft is afraid oif Google AppsJul 21 00:45
oiaohmOpensource vs Opensource drives open source.Jul 21 00:45
schestowitzIt targets it with a lot of FUDJul 21 00:45
sebsebsebschestowitz: yep hence Office 2010 onlineJul 21 00:45
schestowitzAnd beyondJul 21 00:45
oiaohmOpensource really does not compete with closed.Jul 21 00:45
twitterin outer spaceJul 21 00:46
schestowitzPeople don't go out and buy softwareJul 21 00:46
twitteron the moonJul 21 00:46
sebsebsebschestowitz: as long as it works on Linux :D   altough I would rather  use Google Docs of courseJul 21 00:46
schestowitzNoi if they can hope online and get goingJul 21 00:46
schestowitzGoogle Apps gives this to kidsJul 21 00:46
twitterSo will companies, when they find out they have to pay for M$'s online stuff anyway.Jul 21 00:46
schestowitzSo they dump office in schools and stuff.. to young agesJul 21 00:46
schestowitzOOXML for lockinJul 21 00:46
schestowitzNot even ECMA OOXMLJul 21 00:46
sebsebsebyepJul 21 00:46
twitterIs anyone using that OOXML shit yet?Jul 21 00:46
schestowitzJust some proprietary 'stuff'Jul 21 00:47
oiaohmDumping Software is not something Ms can do for ever.Jul 21 00:47
schestowitzI got my first .docx weeks ago... mass mailed.. also with PDFJul 21 00:47
sebsebsebtwitter: yeah  my  Mum  at least,   and I guess my Dad as well,  and  loads of other people :(Jul 21 00:47
oiaohmIt is damaging there bottom line.Jul 21 00:47
*thenixedreport has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 00:47
twitterI've heard about some public school systems going there, but I don't think ... ah, your mom.Jul 21 00:47
schestowitzOOXML was good for showing a lot of intl' misconductJul 21 00:47
oiaohmOne of the fun things areas where it dumped on public schools has growning illegal usage.Jul 21 00:47
oiaohmie parrents using kids version for business.Jul 21 00:48
schestowitzI can still point at each country and show how Microsoft misbehaved thereJul 21 00:48
schestowitzOOXML was a classicJul 21 00:48
schestowitzIt forced the beast out of Microsoft's tummyJul 21 00:48
oiaohmSo small businesses MS bread and butter are not buying as many copies of Office.Jul 21 00:48
*Hammerhead has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jul 21 00:48
notzedi don't think it was very far under the surface, that beastJul 21 00:48
sebsebseboiaohm: what you mean MS bread and butter?Jul 21 00:48
oiaohmDumping always kicks you in ways you don't expect.Jul 21 00:48
twitterThere's a popular insult from New Orleans, "Y' mama!"  as in, "your mother does this and that nasty thing."Jul 21 00:48
oiaohmMost of MS income comes from Small business sebsebsebJul 21 00:49
schestowitzI thought I had made up "Visaster"Jul 21 00:49
schestowitzBut I see it in other places now..Jul 21 00:49
schestowitzWHo was the first? :-pJul 21 00:49
schestowitz,1000000567,10013233o-2000440676b,00.htmJul 21 00:49
twitterI wonder if, "Ya mama uses OOXML" would be insulting enough to keep people from using it.Jul 21 00:49
sebsebseboiaohm: well yeah they only properly care about companies,  the average  computer  homeuser/consumer is to ignorant to reolize, and so  continues using Micrsooft's stuff pretty happileyJul 21 00:49
schestowitzI published many things with "Visaster" in early 2007Jul 21 00:49
oiaohmLinux distributions really don't target smaller.Jul 21 00:50
oiaohmLinux targets larger businesses.Jul 21 00:50
schestowitztwitter: why not "Yo Dad"?Jul 21 00:50
oiaohmFreeipa tech and other bits are required to make Linux target smaller.Jul 21 00:50
schestowitzOr "Yo Son"?Jul 21 00:50
sebsebseboiaohm: nearly any computer can use Ubuntu for example,  with a little help from someone with know howJul 21 00:50
twitterI'm not sure.  It's a sexist culture.Jul 21 00:50
sebsebseboiaohm: any computer user aboveJul 21 00:50
schestowitzOr fun of older generationsJul 21 00:50
Balrog_schestowitz: I have a computer that can't run ubuntu 9.04Jul 21 00:50
oiaohmNetwork intergration sebsebseb.Jul 21 00:50
Balrog_only 8.10Jul 21 00:50
Balrog_:(Jul 21 00:50
twitterPeople take offense about their mom more often than their dad.Jul 21 00:50
oiaohmAds and exchange sebsebseb.Jul 21 00:51
twitterLots of single moms might have something to do with it.Jul 21 00:51
sebsebseboiaohm: networks yeah well  I  know that  Linux can be great for networking,  also  I think evolution can  do  exchange stuff nowJul 21 00:51
sebsebseboiaohm: and Ad's  hmm how about a Linux/Unix server instead? :)Jul 21 00:51
oiaohmlinux is not that great to have central management sebsebseb.Jul 21 00:51
oiaohmIts not just plugin join to network server hello central management.Jul 21 00:52
twitterFor men, it's better to think of obscure people.  Dentist in Hokido, for example.Jul 21 00:52
oiaohmSomething that is needed for the small business market sebsebseb.Jul 21 00:52
sebsebseboiaohm: how about Apple for networking and all that?   ,but right  Macs are more expensive than PC'sJul 21 00:52
oiaohmApples lose on price most of the time.Jul 21 00:52
twitterAll that infowar stuff is for M$ people.  They like to insult their customers.Jul 21 00:53
oiaohmApple do have better small business networking than MS really.Jul 21 00:53
twitterBetter to keep the message on target.Jul 21 00:53
sebsebsebtwitter: what are you talking about?Jul 21 00:53
twitterPeople are wonderful.  Winblows sucks.Jul 21 00:53
twitterOh, I was just dreaming up anti-OOXML propaganda.Jul 21 00:53
sebsebsebtwitter: according to   oiaohm  Winblows dosn't suck, because it's better than Linux for networking and suchJul 21 00:53
sebsebsebtwitter: or at least for small business'sJul 21 00:53
twitterSee above mention of "Ya mama uses OOXML"Jul 21 00:54
oiaohmNo I did not say it was great sebsebsebJul 21 00:54
sebsebsebtwitter: well that's basically what he said wasn't it?Jul 21 00:54
oiaohmParticular markets have issues with Linux.Jul 21 00:54
twitteroiaohm is entitled to his wrongness.Jul 21 00:54
twitterI ignore him.Jul 21 00:54
twitterI'm told he's a M$ rep.Jul 21 00:54
sebsebsebhehJul 21 00:55
twitterpaid to be here.Jul 21 00:55
oiaohmWrong twitterJul 21 00:55
twitterI don't need that.Jul 21 00:55
oiaohmI am not paid to be here.Jul 21 00:55
Balrog_twitter: that's a little farfetched to say the leastJul 21 00:55
twitterWindows should not be put on a network, ever.Jul 21 00:55
twitterI use it at a small business and it sucks life all day.Jul 21 00:55
Balrog_but we use Linux where I work ... samba for Windows compatibilityJul 21 00:56
oiaohmIssue is setup complexity with small business.Jul 21 00:56
Balrog_the main university computer department recently switched from Exchange server (bad) to gmail (not any better)Jul 21 00:56
oiaohmWindows still suxs because its sets up simple and is insecure as hell.Jul 21 00:56
sebsebsebBalrog_: gmail not any better?  well really  gmail is for homeusers/consumers ?Jul 21 00:56
Balrog_it's one of those gmail business contractsJul 21 00:57
twitterThe M$ network layer itself blows chunks, the GUI representation is awful and and security is the pits.Jul 21 00:57
Balrog_problem is, google has your dataJul 21 00:57
twitterM$ networking does not work at all.Jul 21 00:57
twitterWhy not just run exim?Jul 21 00:57
twitterKDE groupware?Jul 21 00:57
oiaohmWindows users have a gui.Jul 21 00:57
oiaohmThat walks them threw the setup.Jul 21 00:57
sebsebseboiaohm: so do Linux users :)  let's see,  Gnome,  KDE,  XFCE, and so onJul 21 00:57
twitterKontact is best of class.Jul 21 00:57
Balrog_twitter: oiaohm is right, on that regard. Windows has been making stuff easy for the non-pro end user. Whether it's done right or not, is another storyJul 21 00:58
twitterEven if M$ had the best applications in the whole world, they would still go down with M$ insecurity.Jul 21 00:58
Balrog_it's not about 'best' it's about 'easiest'Jul 21 00:58
sebsebsebBalrog_: well Ubuntu  for example  is getting easier and easier,  and  6 month release cycles :)  where as with Windows well most  of the users your talking about are still running XP,  and that was released 2001Jul 21 00:59
Balrog_or more easy then text basedJul 21 00:59
Balrog_true, but we're talking servers here :)Jul 21 00:59
sebsebsebBalrog_: now that is a pretty long time ago when we are talking computer software yearsJul 21 00:59
oiaohmTell twitter to remove the ingnore he is making a idiot out him self.Jul 21 00:59
Balrog_so far I've found OS X much easier than Windows ... Linux is good but you need to be comfortable with terminalJul 21 00:59
sebsebsebBalrog_: wrongJul 21 00:59
oiaohmLinux issue is simple configuration for small business is not simple enough.Jul 21 00:59
Balrog_it's getting better thoughJul 21 00:59
oiaohmIt needs to be performanable by a idiot.Jul 21 01:00
notzedit's nothing to do with easy or best.  it's forced bundling and taking middle management out to lunchJul 21 01:00
sebsebsebBalrog_:  the average homeuser/consumer can get by rather nicely with Ubuntu really, without using a terminalJul 21 01:00
Balrog_sebsebseb: I said /servers/Jul 21 01:00
oiaohmHomeuser not needing a network server setup is great.Jul 21 01:00
sebsebsebif companies want to be stupid and run Windows server, well that's there problem :)   personally I care a lot more about  the desktop marketJul 21 01:00
oiaohmLinux distrubtions have focused and got the home user and high end right.Jul 21 01:00
twitterBarlog_ the software I use at home is far easier to use and keep up than anything I use at work.  M$ fails all around.Jul 21 01:01
oiaohmThey have missed the all important middle.Jul 21 01:01
Balrog_twitter: that's my point. People who want to run a small business server get confusedJul 21 01:01
oiaohmBalrog_ tell twitter that its also mine.Jul 21 01:02
Balrog_I personally find Linux easy to set up ... but many people have trouble with terminal and allJul 21 01:02
twitterI use gnu/linux at home.Jul 21 01:02
oiaohmHome is fineJul 21 01:02
Balrog_(I manage a real Linux www server :) )Jul 21 01:02
oiaohmSmall business is the issue.Jul 21 01:03
Balrog_yes exactlyJul 21 01:03
oiaohmwhen Linux hits that then MS will hurt.Jul 21 01:03
twitterI manage several real gnu/linux www servers.Jul 21 01:03
twitterone of them's on my WAPJul 21 01:03
Balrog_large enterprise / education works wellJul 21 01:03
Balrog_I have one on my WAP too (well actually on a NAS hooked up to my WAP)Jul 21 01:04
twitterWhat works for them can work for everyone.Jul 21 01:04
twitterIt's just a matter of community support.Jul 21 01:04
Balrog_twitter: then instead of complaining, make Webmin work really wellJul 21 01:04
twitterand that's moving in the free software directionJul 21 01:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "I’m too much in love with my KDE setup right now." 21 01:04
Balrog_it certainly could use improvement :)Jul 21 01:04
twitter***twitter ignores Barlog_Jul 21 01:04
Balrog_twitter: look, I do this stuff.Jul 21 01:05
Balrog_when you know terminal / cli / etc, it seems easy, but when you don't it's hard as ***Jul 21 01:05
oiaohmschestowitz: would you mind please theating twitter.Jul 21 01:05
oiaohmI am personsally sick of twitter attuded someone don't agree just add them to ignore.Jul 21 01:06
schestowitztwitter sees bad people in too many people IMHOJul 21 01:06
schestowitzThreshold lowJul 21 01:06
oiaohmSo twitter just is becoming a destraction to other wise valid chat.Jul 21 01:06
twitterI don't have time to talk to people who tell me to "stop complaining and improve free software X because it sucks."Jul 21 01:07
schestowitzIn Slashdot it's a mess, but here you know who's a regular and now a trollJul 21 01:07
twitterThat's troll talk.Jul 21 01:07
schestowitzDepends.Jul 21 01:07
Balrog_you're trying to say that everyone should learn CLI and all ... well its not going to happenJul 21 01:08
twitterIt was going in circles.  Windows is best and easy.  I did not come here to have that BS shoved in my face.Jul 21 01:08
schestowitzBut he can ignore silentlyJul 21 01:08
twitterWindows is an inexcusable mess.Jul 21 01:08
schestowitzNo need to announce dissingJul 21 01:08
oiaohmI never said once it was best.Jul 21 01:08
oiaohmI said they had 1 thing wright.Jul 21 01:08
oiaohmright.Jul 21 01:08
oiaohmThat is getting them market.Jul 21 01:09
twitterI need to announce it so that the target understands why I ignore.Jul 21 01:09
schestowitzcpanel is nice for hostingJul 21 01:09
twitterand so does everyone else .Jul 21 01:09
schestowitzBut I no longer need it muchJul 21 01:09
Balrog_unfortunately, cpanel and the others suck at mail config, and certain other services :( ... I've played with webmin and it's not too good at that regardJul 21 01:09
oiaohmtwitter: each market has a list of things that they depend on.Jul 21 01:09
schestowitzoiaohm: be aware that Linux people talking about Linux weakness gives ammo to Linux oppositionJul 21 01:09
schestowitzSimple factJul 21 01:09
Balrog_I just ssh in and do it that wayJul 21 01:09
schestowitzAnd Microsoft presentation quotes thatJul 21 01:09
schestowitzAnd its "TEs" tooJul 21 01:09
oiaohmI am aware of it.Jul 21 01:10
schestowitzI just use SSH and FISH://Jul 21 01:10
oiaohmThere is also the issue that you put head in sand problem does not go away.Jul 21 01:10
schestowitzI can edit files directly over FTP with graphical editorsJul 21 01:10
twitterThere's nothing wrong with talking about free software improvements.  People like oiaohm don't do anything but that and most of it is bullshit.Jul 21 01:10
twitterkonq does sftp excellently.Jul 21 01:11
schestowitzt doesJul 21 01:11
twitteralso calls and works with gui editorsJul 21 01:11
schestowitzmultithreading in kon in FTP worked in KDE 3.1Jul 21 01:11
oiaohmtwitter: you are bady wrong about that I don't do anything.Jul 21 01:11
schestowitzBut it had an issue with some serverJul 21 01:11
schestowitzIt also overlooaded them for thumbnails under some settingsJul 21 01:12
twitterworked pretty well on Debian to Debian.Jul 21 01:12
schestowitzAll resolved later. KDE 3.1 is OLD (2002 or 2003)Jul 21 01:12
oiaohmOver the years I have put in many feature requests in gcc kde and gnome that have all been intergrated.Jul 21 01:12
twitterKDE 4 has interesting previews for sftp file selection.Jul 21 01:12
oiaohmI try to get developers working on releated projects in the same room twitter.Jul 21 01:12
oiaohmWhere I can.Jul 21 01:12
twittermight take a lot of traffic but is excellent on local networks.Jul 21 01:13
oiaohmI fall into the class of a enabler not a programmer most of the the time.Jul 21 01:13
oiaohmAnd to enable things to happen you have to know where the problems are.Jul 21 01:13
twitterit's only when you have to deal with inadequate commercial grade telco bandwith that free software has problems.Jul 21 01:13
oiaohmSo you can talk to the right people and request it.Jul 21 01:13
*sebsebseb dislikes KDE 4 more than Microsoft, well except for those few apps he likes to run in Gnome as wellJul 21 01:13
*sebsebseb Long live KDE 3!Jul 21 01:14
twitterEven so, KDE4 does thubnails well over crappy 60KB crimped network.Jul 21 01:14
schestowitzI did a lot of blogging about KDE powerJul 21 01:14
schestowitzIn 2004 and 2005 mostlyJul 21 01:14
schestowitzIt's still getting betterJul 21 01:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Evidence in support of UK DNA database is "most unclear and badly presented piece of research" 21 01:14
sebsebsebschestowitz: no it's getting worse in a lot of ways now with KDE 4 as a GUI, but better with most of the apps :)Jul 21 01:14
twitterYes, both KDE 3 and 4 continue to improve.Jul 21 01:15
schestowitzKDE4 worked well for meJul 21 01:15
oiaohmAsk twitter a simple question do I always talk postive about MS.  No I don't.Jul 21 01:15
sebsebsebtwitter: well  KDE 3 is sadly on the verge of dieing :(Jul 21 01:15
schestowitzI don't use it at home yetJul 21 01:15
twitterI don't think so.Jul 21 01:15
oiaohmThere is no OS I talk postive about all the time.Jul 21 01:15
twitterKDE 3 will only die when 4 is much better.Jul 21 01:15
schestowitzI will when I do a distro refresh. KDE4 just worked when I used itJul 21 01:15
twitterDebian still uses 3.Jul 21 01:15
sebsebsebtwitter: distros are already getting rid of KDE 3  and stuffJul 21 01:15
schestowitzsebsebseb: not dying, expiring due to evolutionJul 21 01:16
twitterUbuntu uses gnome.  I'm not crying.Jul 21 01:16
twitterhell, Debian has Gnome as a default on install.Jul 21 01:16
sebsebsebtwitter: Ubuntu 9.04 uses a Gnome that does not follow upstream properly, as a result they have done something I really don't likeJul 21 01:16
twitterI don't like a lot of things Ubuntu does.  No big deal.Jul 21 01:16
sebsebsebtwitter: yeah when they remove a feature that has been there all along, untill a stupid change,  it's not funny, when been using that feature,  and when  the only way to get it back, is to remove their change that really want as wellJul 21 01:17
twitterjust move to Debian and load your features yourself.Jul 21 01:17
twitter:)Jul 21 01:17
sebsebsebtwitter: I am talking about  the removed shut down and logout  from the system menu,   because of Ubuntu's version of the fast user switch appletJul 21 01:17
schestowitzThe abuse issues in BN appear to have ended todayJul 21 01:17
schestowitzDDOS once in the afternoon, downtime half an hourJul 21 01:17
sebsebsebtwitter: Debian is stability I heard,  really I want later stuff first, but Fedora woudn't install on here :(Jul 21 01:17
schestowitzI'll head to bedJul 21 01:18
sebsebsebtwitter:  gave me  an error,   said it was probably a bug and to report itJul 21 01:18
twittergnJul 21 01:18
twitterin the end, everyone creates their own distro.Jul 21 01:18
sebsebsebtwitter: not trueJul 21 01:18
oiaohmThat is also a problem.Jul 21 01:18
twitterdon't be sad that no one else has exactly what you want, be glad that you can make things exactly as you want.Jul 21 01:18
twitteryour choice of software is .... a kind of distribution.Jul 21 01:19
twitteryou could package it and share it if you wanted.Jul 21 01:19
twitterbut it's something that works best for youJul 21 01:19
oiaohmtwitter calls me a troll but he is a extream side of coin.Jul 21 01:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GOP Candidate: If We Lose Elections, We Still Have Guns 21 01:19
oiaohmI want a world where users don't have to go to creating there own distribution to get what they want.Jul 21 01:20
oiaohmReally where user can customise like having there own distribution and not even notice.Jul 21 01:20
cubezzzI've always liked fedoraJul 21 01:21
oiaohmLinux Standard Base and Freedesktop are slowly providing the techs  to allow distribution intergration.Jul 21 01:21
Balrog_ubuntu is getting better, but there still are problems especially on the server end :( ... well not for me, but some people I know have complainedJul 21 01:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boston press keeps its door shut to readers.. 21 01:23
oiaohmFocus has been slightly wrong.Jul 21 01:23
*fewa has quit (No route to host)Jul 21 01:23
oiaohmUser base of open source drives its focus.Jul 21 01:24
oiaohmIts been a failure to envolve small business and address there problems.Jul 21 01:24
oiaohmGood part is being aware of it future can change.Jul 21 01:24
oiaohmThis is where lot of people who say Linux has lost have it wrong.   They may get something wrong but you can always try to improve.Jul 21 01:25
twitterBoston trolled out ->  these forums are insidiously contributing to the devaluation of journalism, blurring the truth, confusing the issues, and diminishing serious discourse beyond even talk radio’s worst examples.Jul 21 01:29
oiaohm  This here also shows a big problem.   Distribution design for shipping applications is harmful.Jul 21 01:29
twitterFunny that I don't see these kinds of problems on Groklaw very often.Jul 21 01:30
oiaohmReason why I would never be suggesting building more distributions.Jul 21 01:30
twitterA well run forum is a beautiful thing.Jul 21 01:30
oiaohmInstead we need to design something that distributions don't exist.Jul 21 01:30 needs to pay better attention and they have to realize that commercial interests are going to spam them with troll comments.Jul 21 01:30
amarsh04sebsebseb, you can download a debian netinstall snapshot image, add testing and unstable to /etc/apt/sources.list and run debian unstableJul 21 01:31
Balrog_oiaohm: I home they're looking at gentoo unstableJul 21 01:31
sebsebsebamarsh04: I  want something   cutting edge not to complexJul 21 01:31
sebsebsebamarsh04: and I haven't done netinstall for Ubuntu  beforeJul 21 01:32
twitterunstable.  fun to play with not for work unless your work is software development.Jul 21 01:32
twitterfunny thing from ->  buy a legitimate newspaperJul 21 01:32
oiaohmSoftware developers need to be able to release straight to end user.Jul 21 01:32
oiaohmNo mainatainer crap in middle.Jul 21 01:33
amarsh04sebsebseb, I was convinced of Debian's simplicity when I was able to upgrade glibc without rebootingJul 21 01:33
twitterI'm told they are cheap these days and that individual reporters have always been cheaper.Jul 21 01:33
oiaohmSo reducing the numbers of people to blame for problems.Jul 21 01:33
Balrog_well with gentoo, the 'maintainer' writes patches to correct stuffJul 21 01:33
oiaohmThoery.Jul 21 01:33
oiaohmFact is that the patches correct and break stuff.Jul 21 01:34
sebsebsebamarsh04: I want to get rid of my Ubuntu install soon,  if  I knew where I could download the ISO for Debian,  I mean I looked, but it was like where I get it fromJul 21 01:34
sebsebsebamarsh04: yeah maybe I should give  Debian a try as host OS for a whileJul 21 01:34
amarsh04I'll give you the URL in a moment, sebsebsebJul 21 01:34
twittergoogle debian installJul 21 01:35
sebsebsebanyone used vectorlinux?Jul 21 01:35
oiaohmIt normally adds lower knowleged person about the source code to the application doing alterations.  Balrog_ compared to the main distribution.Jul 21 01:35
oiaohmIe from the software developers.Jul 21 01:35
oiaohmvectorlinux is not to bad.Jul 21 01:36
oiaohmBasically slackware with a human usable package manager.Jul 21 01:36
oiaohmOne thing I do give slackware is you don't end up with package database problems.Jul 21 01:37
amarsh04 21 01:38
sebsebseboiaohm: well thing is they have a paid for delux version now, which comes with Open Office and Gimp and such, and some sort of supportJul 21 01:38
sebsebseboiaohm: where as it seems the standard version won't have those programs by defaultJul 21 01:39
amarsh04look under the heading "netinst (generally 135-175 MB) and businesscard (generally 20-50 MB) CD images"Jul 21 01:39
sebsebseboiaohm: I been distro trying in vm's  the  last two weeks or so here and there, in fact I have been down the whole listJul 21 01:39
Balrog_I just use gentooJul 21 01:39
sebsebseba lot of  non English distros,   and  distros  that haven't been updated since  2007, 2008. or February :(Jul 21 01:39
Balrog_:(Jul 21 01:39
oiaohmYou can still install Openoffice sebsebsebJul 21 01:40
oiaohmDelux version is just a 2 disk version.Jul 21 01:40
sebsebseboiaohm: yeah that's what I thought, but would have to compile myselfJul 21 01:40
oiaohmBinaries are downloadable.Jul 21 01:40
oiaohmThere is the slackware repo behind vectorlinux.Jul 21 01:40
sebsebsebwhen I tried their older vectorlinux live cd in  Virtualbox, I was rather impressed with itJul 21 01:41
oiaohmOf course they need to make some money.Jul 21 01:41
sebsebseboiaohm: ok so it's not just some commercial distro after all?Jul 21 01:41
oiaohmProviding a delux version for people with slow connections is a nice sneeky.Jul 21 01:41
amarsh04back later, ISP sent a replacement adsl modem/router to tryJul 21 01:42
sebsebsebanyway at the moment I don't even need Open Office, or Gimp or whatever else it's missing in the standard version,  but  it's  good to know that those programs can be installed in the standard version if I want themJul 21 01:42
sebsebseb,but I am just after a good host at the momentJul 21 01:42
sebsebsebthen I am going to have loads of virtual machines anyway :)Jul 21 01:42
sebsebseboiaohm: I  had issues  getting installed  more properly in  Virtualbox,  and then  the  already made  VM  was a  stupid RAR file and then uhJul 21 01:43
*sebsebseb hates RAR filesJul 21 01:43
*Balrog_ hates rar files too :(Jul 21 01:43
Balrog_at least there's unrarJul 21 01:43
Balrog_though ace files are worseJul 21 01:43
sebsebsebBalrog_: yeah, but when I wanted that vectorlinux  rar,  I try to open then normalley with achrive manager, extract some files, and get weird filesJul 21 01:44
oiaohmUpdate unrar sebsebsebJul 21 01:44
Balrog_ewJul 21 01:44
sebsebseboiaohm: well  it's seen  as being bad,  by people who know  Linux distros,  them not including OPen Oiffce and Gimp in the standard install,   those two are so standard for  Linux distrosJul 21 01:44
Balrog_remember that unrar is still not fossJul 21 01:44
Balrog_though if you feel like making a foss version, there's some code here < > that may helpJul 21 01:45
sebsebseboiaohm: it was one from Ubuntu repo,  I want to get rid of this  try something else,  I have been thinking Vector,  maybe Debian,  or just  put  that  KDE  3  netbook remix  CD's,   I have my reaosns to do a clean install againJul 21 01:45
oiaohmxubuntu look at it some time.  sebsebsebJul 21 01:45
Balrog_it's right now for mac only, but it shouldn't be impossible to port :)Jul 21 01:45
oiaohmIt also missing openoffice.Jul 21 01:45
Balrog_just install oooJul 21 01:46
sebsebseboiaohm: I have it's not for me,   I have however these last two weeks been trying  some  XFCE distros in vm, and been rather impressed with them, thing is they were also oldJul 21 01:46
sebsebseboiaohm: sure, but it can be easilly installedJul 21 01:46
sebsebsebtwo weeks or so above, but exact dosn't matter for this oneJul 21 01:46
oiaohmSome kde base distrutions only have koffice by defualt as well.Jul 21 01:46
*amarsh04_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 01:46
sebsebsebKOffice I haven't given it a proper try ever, had it open a few times, and it seems pretty impressiveJul 21 01:47
oiaohmThe idea that anything has to be included by default is wrong.Jul 21 01:47
sebsebsebalso  I quite like Abiword :)   I love Abiword,  and  there's Gnumeric for spreadsheets as wellJul 21 01:47
*_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 01:47
oiaohmOnly requirement to be a Linux distribution is a Linux kernel.Jul 21 01:47
_Hicham_and be oiaohm compliantJul 21 01:48
_Hicham_otherwise it will be denied the use of the linux trademarkJul 21 01:48
_Hicham_that is how it goesJul 21 01:48
Balrog_what about GNU/Linux ?Jul 21 01:48
Balrog_I mean, you could put the linux kernel with bsd userland, right?Jul 21 01:48
_Hicham_you have to abide by schestowitz' rulesJul 21 01:48
_Hicham_BSD userland?Jul 21 01:48
oiaohmGNU describes the user land.Jul 21 01:48
_Hicham_there is no BSD userland I thinkJul 21 01:48
oiaohmandroid uses a BSD userland.Jul 21 01:49
_Hicham_BSD is a kernelJul 21 01:49
oiaohmBSD is a kernel and a userland.Jul 21 01:49
oiaohmDebian offers GNU on a freebsd kernel as a option.Jul 21 01:49
sebsebseboiaohm: I  am not  exactly sure how to use  anything else when it comes to installing stuff,   to much time on Ubuntu it's dumbed me down, as in using apt-get and aptitude,  so   I wonder about installing slackware packages in vectorlinuxJul 21 01:51
oiaohmvectorlinux has a package manager.Jul 21 01:51
sebsebseboiaohm: in fact the above is another reason why Debian hmm,  maybe not,  since that uses apt-get and aptitude  as wellJul 21 01:51
sebsebseboiaohm: the vectorlinux I have been trying looked so nice :)Jul 21 01:52
oiaohmslackware you can install parts just by extracting acrives.Jul 21 01:52
*ThistleWeb ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 01:52
oiaohm 21 01:52
oiaohmYes vector package manger has a nasty nameJul 21 01:53
twitteraptitude is very powerful, works as well or better than rpmJul 21 01:53
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jul 21 01:53
twitterwhat matters is the availability of repositories.  Fedora, Debian and other free software distributions are everywhere, so you always are assured good package download times.Jul 21 01:53
sebsebsebtwitter: sure, but I been using apt-get and then the last year or so aptitude sometimes as well,  since  second release in Ubuntu in 2005,  so yeah I want to  try something differnet,  and I would hardly ever compile anything from source in Ubuntu, so I am probably going to get issues still if I try thatJul 21 01:53
_Hicham_it is the apt-get port to slackJul 21 01:53
twitterI use apt-getJul 21 01:54
twitterused to use dselectJul 21 01:54
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 01:54
sebsebsebwell portage is meant to be the best one, what archlinux usesJul 21 01:54
twitterI recommend synaptic for people who want an easy guiJul 21 01:54
sebsebsebor did I maybe get mixed up with the Gentoo one hmmJul 21 01:54
sebsebsebtwitter: same here, since that's what I am used toJul 21 01:55
sebsebsebtwitter: ,but I recommend commands for people that know what they want to install, quicker and faster :)Jul 21 01:55
twitterKDE's apt-io slave is funJul 21 01:55
sebsebsebtwitter: uh above, quicker and easierJul 21 01:55
_Hicham_portage is in gentooJul 21 01:55
_Hicham_arch uses pacmanJul 21 01:55
_Hicham_oiaohm-get is the best package manager of allJul 21 01:56
sebsebseb_Hicham_: yep I thought I had it mixed up, I meant pacman is the one that apparantly is the bestJul 21 01:56
oiaohm  Interesting.  You like a blood releation  of the bsd tree sebsebsebJul 21 01:56
sebsebsebnever heard of that package managerJul 21 01:56
twittersometimes, being able to open the packages in multiple tabs of a browser is nice.  Like when you are trying to figure out what package to use.  It's especially handy to be able to open the project home page and compare packages in split planesJul 21 01:56
twitterKonq just rocks.Jul 21 01:57
sebsebseboiaohm: uh what?Jul 21 01:57
oiaohmportage is a releation of the bsd ports system sebsebsebJul 21 01:57
twitteronce you know what you need to download, apt-get install does the rest.Jul 21 01:57
sebsebseboiaohm: I have heard things from people, but I have only   used apt-get and aptitude and  RPM   in Fedora Core 2 and 4,  with no net hmmJul 21 01:58
sebsebseboiaohm: drag and drop and install or however it went, it was easyJul 21 01:58
sebsebseboiaohm: yeah and compiled from source beforeJul 21 01:58
sebsebsebuh I keep on highling you :D  well  I am used to  the big  Ubuntu support channelJul 21 01:58
_Hicham_compiling in ubuntu is easyJul 21 01:59
sebsebsebgiving support  there mainly rather than reciving, since  I started doing  that again last summer or whenever it wasJul 21 01:59
oiaohmUbuntu wine maintainers drove me nuts for a while.Jul 21 01:59
_Hicham_you should try fedora 11Jul 21 01:59
_Hicham_Ubuntu patches are nonsenseJul 21 02:00
oiaohmBack porting patches leading to wine doing really strange things.Jul 21 02:00
sebsebseb_Hicham_: I wanted to, but  when I tried to install,   I got an error and it told me it was a bug probably and to report itJul 21 02:00
sebsebsebthat's when I tried to do the custom install so I could use the partitions I hadJul 21 02:00
sebsebseband yes I know Ubuntu do some pretty shitty  stuff at times, when it comes to upstreamJul 21 02:00
_Hicham_was it Fedora 11 final ?Jul 21 02:00
sebsebseb9.04  is  profe of this,  of course the newbies won't know, unless they are toldJul 21 02:00
sebsebseband yes Fedora 11 final from the DVDJul 21 02:00
*HivenGlaven (n=teddy1@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 02:01
_Hicham_you could have done u r own partitioning schemeJul 21 02:01
sebsebsebI have partitions I need to keep for nowJul 21 02:01
sebsebsebwell vectorlinux will look way better than Fedora :)  that's what I want,  a  desktop OS, that looks really nice by default :)Jul 21 02:02
sebsebseband also  technically is pretty good,  so  Windows 7 or  Vista or XP etc, are out of courseJul 21 02:02
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 02:02
_Hicham_vectorlinux uses KDE by default i thinkJul 21 02:02
sebsebsebwell even if it's KDE 4,  I expect it will be a nice looking oneJul 21 02:03
sebsebsebunlike most of the distros that use itJul 21 02:03
twitterTry EliveJul 21 02:03
_Hicham_openSUSE and Mandriva have the best KDE implementationsJul 21 02:03
mikankune17 is sexyJul 21 02:03
sebsebsebtwitter: well   you can't just download Elive,  they want a donationJul 21 02:03
twitterIt's hard to beat the beauty of EnlightenmentJul 21 02:03
sebsebsebanyway tried other stuf that used enlighment in vmJul 21 02:03
sebsebseband it was kind of interestingJul 21 02:03
sebsebseb,but i'll stick with Gnome and KDE 3 for now,  and  a little XFCEJul 21 02:04
twitterYou can always download their "development version"Jul 21 02:04
twitterOr you used to be able to...Jul 21 02:04
_Hicham_GNOME 2.26 is greatJul 21 02:04
oiaohmVector Linux fairly much gives you the windows manager how the developer project designed it.Jul 21 02:04
sebsebsebhard to beat the beauty of enlightment, well  maybe so, if it's set up properly by the distro or youJul 21 02:04
oiaohmThey don't spend time altering things.Jul 21 02:05
sebsebseboiaohm: is  latest vector KDE 4 or not?Jul 21 02:05
twitterYou can't have it both ways.Jul 21 02:05
twitterYou either take stuff from upstream or you customize it.Jul 21 02:05
oiaohm6 has KDE 4Jul 21 02:05
_Hicham_oiaohm : patches are necessaryJul 21 02:05
sebsebsebthere's a Gnome version as well?Jul 21 02:05
oiaohm_Hicham_: to do what.Jul 21 02:05
oiaohmMost of the distribution patches are not what you call necessary.Jul 21 02:06
_Hicham_oiaohm : to integrate the s/w with the distro at leastJul 21 02:06
_Hicham_patches for integrationJul 21 02:06
twitterElive is probably worth the money.Jul 21 02:06
_Hicham_are necessaryJul 21 02:06
oiaohmKDE freedesktop standard following.Jul 21 02:06
oiaohmIntergration does not require alterations to the main kde packages.Jul 21 02:06
twitterthere's also austrimudiJul 21 02:06
_Hicham_it dependsJul 21 02:06
oiaohmYou just add a package with the mine types and memu entries.Jul 21 02:07
oiaohmThere is no depend about it.Jul 21 02:07
twitterprobably time to look at E17 distros again.Jul 21 02:07
oiaohmYou only need to patch kde to alter its appearnce in some way.Jul 21 02:07
oiaohmOr its operation.Jul 21 02:07
oiaohmNot for intergration.Jul 21 02:07
_Hicham_it is not that evident to ship vanilla packagesJul 21 02:07
oiaohmThere is a lot of selection to tamper done by ubuntu that could be done cleaner.Jul 21 02:08
twitterhere's something nice 21 02:09
_Hicham_Ubuntu is a bad caseJul 21 02:09
_Hicham_I am talking about Fedora patchesJul 21 02:09
_Hicham_they are all adopted by upstreamJul 21 02:09
oiaohmFedora different case.Jul 21 02:09
oiaohmPatch is normally on the way upstream and Fedora ships it out for user testing.Jul 21 02:10
oiaohmUsing a development distribution that should be expected.Jul 21 02:10
twitter 21 02:11
oiaohmFedora does avoid lot of the theming alterations and the like other distributions patch into packages where items like KDE provide a theming path away from vanilla packages.Jul 21 02:12
sebsebseboiaohm: heh I got one guy that reall thinks Vector won't do what I wantJul 21 02:12
sebsebseboiaohm: maybe it won't quite,  but  it's worth giving it a proper try as host OS for a bit I thinkJul 21 02:13
_Hicham_sebsebseb : Wolvix is lighterJul 21 02:13
sebsebseb_Hicham_: what's that?Jul 21 02:13
_Hicham_a slackware based distroJul 21 02:13
sebsebseb_Hicham_: and I have 1GB RAM, so I don't exactlly need light waightJul 21 02:13
_Hicham_1GB is not too muchJul 21 02:13
sebsebseb_Hicham_: yeah  it's a bit sucky if I want to run two vm's at once,  but I can make do with just oneJul 21 02:13
_Hicham_sebsebseb : what distro r u using right now?Jul 21 02:14
sebsebseb_Hicham_: I don't like XFCE that much,   well I have tried some other distros in vm where it looks a lot nicer than XubuntuJul 21 02:15
sebsebseb_Hicham_: Ubuntu 9.04 at the momentJul 21 02:15
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Jul 21 02:16
_Hicham_great choiceJul 21 02:16
sebsebseb_Hicham_: not quite,   but it's been working well for me with Ext4 :)Jul 21 02:17
sebsebsebExt4 isn't seen as  100% stable in 9.04Jul 21 02:17
_Hicham_it is for me, at leastJul 21 02:17
_Hicham_never had a problem with itJul 21 02:17
sebsebseb_Hicham_: which distro are you on?Jul 21 02:17
_Hicham_Fedora 11Jul 21 02:17
sebsebsebah right yeah, but that's Fedora 11Jul 21 02:18
sebsebsebthey have the later kernel and  Ext4 by defaultJul 21 02:18
_Hicham_I have kernel 2.6.29Jul 21 02:18
sebsebseb9.10  and  Ext4 is defaultJul 21 02:18
_Hicham_2.6.29.6-213.fc11.i586Jul 21 02:18
_Hicham_it is the default too in fedoraJul 21 02:19
sebsebseb2.6.28-13-generic  and this upgrade kernel wasn't that long ago,   it was 2.6.28  something else beforeJul 21 02:19
sebsebsebupdate above,   altough with upgrade still makes reallyJul 21 02:19
sebsebseb_Hicham_: they have done some bad things here and there to 9.04 the Gnome  side of it anywayJul 21 02:20
_Hicham_what bad things sebsebseb?Jul 21 02:21
sebsebseb_Hicham_: you know fusa yeah?  the log outer?  right?Jul 21 02:21
sebsebsebfast user switch appletJul 21 02:21
_Hicham_yesJul 21 02:21
_Hicham_I love itJul 21 02:21
sebsebsebwell in Ubuntu...Jul 21 02:22
sebsebsebwhat they have done is also made it show Pidgin  login/logout statusJul 21 02:22
sebsebseband you can do your away and such for Pidgin with itJul 21 02:22
_Hicham_is that bad ?Jul 21 02:22
sebsebsebso when pidgin is not on it shows a red shutdown icon, and when pidgin is on the green online iconJul 21 02:23
sebsebsebwhat's bad isJul 21 02:23
sebsebsebas a result of it,  they have removed shut down and logout from the system menuJul 21 02:23
sebsebseband the only way to get it back, is to remove fusa, so if want both,  problemsJul 21 02:23
_Hicham_wowJul 21 02:23
_Hicham_very nastyJul 21 02:23
sebsebsebyour being sarcastic or?Jul 21 02:23
sebsebsebthey make shut down into some noob thing now,   shut down isn't so special that it deserves it's own icon and all thatJul 21 02:24
_Hicham_i am not sarcasticJul 21 02:24
_Hicham_I wouldn't have liked that changeJul 21 02:24
sebsebsebthen notify-osd   at least one person thinks is bad, the black  update notifications and  banshee  changing a  song and suchJul 21 02:24
_Hicham_sincerelyJul 21 02:24
sebsebsebindeed  I have used that featureJul 21 02:25
sebsebsebever since I used Gnome in 2004Jul 21 02:25
sebsebsebsince 2004,  since Fedora Core 2Jul 21 02:25
_Hicham_do u use banshee ?Jul 21 02:25
sebsebseband then they do that stuff :(Jul 21 02:25
sebsebsebI know,  I know it's Mono,  but I like Banshee :)Jul 21 02:25
sebsebsebRythombox used to be ok, but not  that great,  and  Banshee would be rubbish at the time, but then Banshee became better than RythomboxJul 21 02:25
_Hicham_did u try exaile ?Jul 21 02:26
sebsebsebnot sure if I didJul 21 02:26
_Hicham_try exaile and u will never think of banshee againJul 21 02:26
sebsebsebmaybe one day i'll do that    commandline   music playerJul 21 02:26
ThistleWebsebsebseb: moc does work niceJul 21 02:26
sebsebsebThistleWeb: the shell program I am thinking of?Jul 21 02:27
ThistleWebI dont see much difference between banshee, exaile, rythmbox and amarokJul 21 02:27
ThistleWebyes, music on commandJul 21 02:27
*sebsebseb never understood what the big deal was/is with AmarokJul 21 02:27
ThistleWebterminal music playerJul 21 02:27
_Hicham_sebsebseb : exaile is a command line player ?Jul 21 02:27
ThistleWebnoJul 21 02:27
ThistleWebmoc isJul 21 02:27
sebsebseb_Hicham_: exile can do 21 02:28
ThistleWebexaile, rythmbox, amarok and banshee are all in the same genre of music managersJul 21 02:28
sebsebsebwell most of these palyers canJul 21 02:28
_Hicham_sebsebseb : of courseJul 21 02:28
_Hicham_all players do last.fmJul 21 02:28
ThistleWebI prefer a simple player like AudaciousJul 21 02:28
_Hicham_me tooJul 21 02:28
_Hicham_I love audaciousJul 21 02:28
ThistleWeball I want is a system tray icon I can minimise, with multimedia buttons for pause etcJul 21 02:29
ThistleWebkeeps it in the background with easy controls and only takes up a lil 25x25 icon spaceJul 21 02:29
_Hicham_it is my beloved playerJul 21 02:29
sebsebsebMy favourite player is Windows Media Player!Jul 21 02:29
_Hicham_sebsebseb : really?Jul 21 02:30
twitterI think amarok has what you wantJul 21 02:30
sebsebseb_Hicham_: yepJul 21 02:30
_Hicham_what does make it so special ?Jul 21 02:30
sebsebsebhehJul 21 02:30
sebsebsebI was jokeing :)Jul 21 02:30
twittersebsebseb is big jokerJul 21 02:30
ThistleWebdifferent peeps want different things from their softwareJul 21 02:30
twitteramarok has scripts and pluginsJul 21 02:30
sebsebsebtwitter: I might joke sometimes yeahJul 21 02:31
_Hicham_I am against banshee and its mono stackJul 21 02:31
neighborleesebsebseb, how can shutdown be seen as some noob thing, I mean everyone needs to do it at some point no matter what your preferred way of doing it is right ? ;)Jul 21 02:31
oiaohmAmarok has a shop selling music behind it as well as some great scripts.Jul 21 02:31
sebsebsebneighborlee: I meant the way they have a special icon for itJul 21 02:31
neighborlee?Jul 21 02:31
oiaohmI will be truthful I don't like using it all the time.Jul 21 02:31
sebsebsebneighborlee: in Ubuntu 9.04Jul 21 02:31
neighborleesebsebseb, fasik there has always been a shutdown icon in ubuntuJul 21 02:31
neighborleefaik ^Jul 21 02:31
_Hicham_oiaohm never uses X serverJul 21 02:31
oiaohmI do use X server _Hicham_Jul 21 02:32
neighborleehmJul 21 02:32
sebsebsebneighborlee: special icon or applet if you like, that also does those other things I mentionedJul 21 02:32
sebsebsebneighborlee: read above scroll up again,  you missed stuff I said  obviosulyJul 21 02:32
oiaohmWould not be here without it _Hicham_Jul 21 02:32
neighborleeno I saw made no sense though in conjunction WITH pidginJul 21 02:32
neighborleegooglingJul 21 02:32
sebsebsebneighborlee: which OS are you on?Jul 21 02:32
neighborleewindowsJul 21 02:33
sebsebsebexactly  Pidgin  status being linked to a  shutdown/logout/restart applet,  now that's not really a great thingJul 21 02:33
*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 02:33
ThistleWebthis is another part of why I dont get peeps pushing banshee, it's comparable in terms of features and functions with rythmbox and exaile (gtk) and amarok (qt).....well, 1,4 anywayJul 21 02:33
sebsebsebespesailly when  the original applet is only for  changing usersJul 21 02:33
ThistleWebso there's no real benefit to having bansheeJul 21 02:34
neighborleeThistleWeb, It's sadly , rather obviousJul 21 02:34
neighborlee:)Jul 21 02:34
ThistleWebit don't bring anything unique to the tableJul 21 02:34
sebsebsebneighborlee: Windows why?Jul 21 02:34
neighborleeThistleWeb, except mono dependency ;)Jul 21 02:34
neighborleesebsebseb, why notJul 21 02:34
ThistleWebwell, there is that lolJul 21 02:34
neighborlee:)Jul 21 02:34
sebsebsebneighborlee: ,because it's basically a joke to be using Windows as a Linux user, unless you have a proper valid reason :)   or  are new to LinuxJul 21 02:35
neighborleeoh so you mean you'd rather have it on the menu, not panelJul 21 02:35
ThistleWebsadly, many linux users have to suffer windows at work or schoolJul 21 02:35
sebsebsebneighborlee: now your getting thereJul 21 02:35
neighborleekkJul 21 02:35
sebsebsebneighborlee: however it's still meant to be in the system menuJul 21 02:36
sebsebsebneighborlee: and the applet is only meant to be for   changing usersJul 21 02:36
neighborleehehJul 21 02:36
sebsebseb,but  with Ubuntu 9.04   they  didn't follow upstream Gnome when it came to thisJul 21 02:36
neighborleeeach ownJul 21 02:36
neighborleeas in to ^Jul 21 02:36
neighborleeI kinda like panel myself..faster-Jul 21 02:36
neighborleesimilar to windersJul 21 02:36
*neighborlee runsJul 21 02:36
neighborleefastJul 21 02:37
neighborlee-erJul 21 02:37
neighborlee:)Jul 21 02:37
sebsebsebmeant to have both  and done properly,  but sadly  Ubuntu 9.04 did this  silly stuff,  well apparantly some  profesional designers even came up with the ideaJul 21 02:37
sebsebsebone guy left Ubuntu, because of this, and a few other reasonsJul 21 02:37
sebsebsebhe switched to Gentoo on one computer, and Debian on the otherJul 21 02:37
neighborleeubuntu does  many ODD mehJul 21 02:37
oiaohmHistory of the most popular distribution doing odd things goes back a long way.Jul 21 02:38
sebsebsebneighborlee: have you used it?  it seems your some Windows users, that is in here for some reason, that knows something about  Linux,   or you use Linux as well, but not on your desktop?Jul 21 02:38
oiaohmMandriva before ubuntu I remember its strangness.Jul 21 02:38
sebsebseboiaohm: not  quite,  if you mean Ubuntu,  because first release was in 2004Jul 21 02:38
neighborleesebsebseb, many times yupJul 21 02:39
neighborleesebsebseb, its been a while o_0Jul 21 02:39
neighborleeoiaohm, yeah mandriva indeed...I used to really adore urpmfJul 21 02:39
sebsebsebneighborlee: are you a Windows fan boy in desguise kind of?  :DJul 21 02:39
neighborleeoiaohm, and MCC especiallyJul 21 02:39
neighborleesebsebseb, that depends I guess on the topic :)Jul 21 02:39
oiaohmHistory kinda says you become the most popular linux destribution you maintainers will go nuts.Jul 21 02:40
neighborleesebsebseb, if you are asking am I a linux or windows apologist..the answer is a firm and resounding zero/noJul 21 02:40
neighborleeoiaohm, lolJul 21 02:40
ThistleWebwhen you absolutly, positivly need that virus to run properly, you can't beat WindowsJul 21 02:40
neighborleeloolJul 21 02:40
neighborleeThistleWeb, how true  :))Jul 21 02:40
oiaohmWine is not far behind these days.Jul 21 02:41
sebsebseboiaohm: Wine is getting there and so is virtulazation for  3D gamesJul 21 02:41
ThistleWeblinux will never be ready for the desktop until they reach that malware compatibility level that the gold standard has setJul 21 02:41
neighborleeThistleWeb, unless its  vista..their new control thing is a NIGHTmare...even windows users can't stand it though arguably it makes things safer ?<no idea,,I dont get infected as I operate safely,,err as safe as windows GETS>Jul 21 02:41
sebsebsebWindows 7 on October 22ndJul 21 02:42
sebsebsebenough fools will upgradeJul 21 02:42
sebsebseband IE6 will hopefuly die at last :)Jul 21 02:42
neighborleelolJul 21 02:42
neighborleetalk about internet suicide o_0Jul 21 02:42
ThistleWebplenty of peeps see the stock market as an indicator or quality products / servicesJul 21 02:42
neighborleeeven my friends who use vista religiously...dont use IE ;))Jul 21 02:43
ThistleWebmy folks would willingly get the new windows because "it must be the best"Jul 21 02:43
ThistleWebdespite me trying to educate themJul 21 02:43
neighborleehmmm :)Jul 21 02:43
neighborleeloyal fan base ? ;)Jul 21 02:43
ThistleWebnon-tech usersJul 21 02:43
neighborleeyupJul 21 02:43
ThistleWebwho believe MS got where they are BECAUSE they are the bestJul 21 02:43
oiaohmVista is fun.Jul 21 02:44
neighborleeM$ is counting on itJul 21 02:44
ThistleWebthat if others were better, the positions would be reversedJul 21 02:44
neighborleeoiaohm, heh,,and very frustratingJul 21 02:44
sebsebsebThistleWeb: people that don't know enough about computers, that's whoJul 21 02:44
oiaohmwinsock crashes computer takes forever to start.Jul 21 02:44
oiaohmAnd event log does not log anything.Jul 21 02:44
oiaohmYep also webbrowsers are paper weights.Jul 21 02:44
ThistleWebmy response? "no probs, but don't call me for support"Jul 21 02:44
sebsebsebVista has been ok on this computer, of course I have hardly used it also :)Jul 21 02:44
sebsebsebin fact last time I booted it,  was some time last year,  as far as I knowJul 21 02:45
sebsebsebif I remember correctly,  such a long time agoJul 21 02:45
oiaohmWith winsock crashed Vista takes about 15 mins to login.Jul 21 02:45
ThistleWebI hang my winsock out for Santa each year but all I get is mothballsJul 21 02:45
oiaohmLinux can be stuffed up but at least it does not keep you waiting.Jul 21 02:46
*edbian (n=ed@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 02:46
edbianIs this channel devoted to boycotting the Suse Linux mother Novell??Jul 21 02:46
oiaohmThis is not only anti Novell.Jul 21 02:47
ThistleWebnovel is the adopted mother of SuseJul 21 02:47
neighborleelolJul 21 02:47
oiaohmIts anti genernal company bad threatment of end users.Jul 21 02:47
ThistleWebit already existed before Novell bought itJul 21 02:47
edbianIC ICJul 21 02:48
edbianSo what has Novell done that is so "bad" ??Jul 21 02:48
ThistleWebedbian: did you read the "about BN" on the siteJul 21 02:49
ThistleWebit explains why the site started and what it's aboutJul 21 02:49
sebsebsebsomeone  edited Vista and got it to boot in like 20 seconds, took a lot of junk out and stuff, put on another window managerJul 21 02:49
edbianGive me a link to the site and I will :)Jul 21 02:49
neighborleesebsebseb, hehJul 21 02:49
sebsebsebneighborlee: no joke I am seriousJul 21 02:50
ThistleWebit's I thinkJul 21 02:50
ThistleWeb  <<read the introductionJul 21 02:52
sebsebsebhmm edbian sort of ruined the descussion or was it finnished?Jul 21 02:54
ThistleWebdo they make stripey winsocks?Jul 21 02:55
edbianI am reading the siteJul 21 02:55
edbian:)Jul 21 02:55
edbianThey are evil! :0Jul 21 02:55
neighborleeedbian, your rug bunnies ?Jul 21 02:55
neighborleemore cute actually than dangerous o_0Jul 21 02:55
neighborleebut heyJul 21 02:55
edbianNever heard that expression before.Jul 21 02:56
edbianWhat is more cute than dangerous?  My smiley?Jul 21 02:56
ThistleWebedbian: Roy does a good job of dissecting stuff, then posting the full unedited version for you to compare, or check it's not out of context etc, as well as posting links to where he finds stuffJul 21 02:56
edbianneighborlee: = Roy?Jul 21 02:57
ThistleWebhe's basicly saying "this is what's going on, please feel free to investigate on your own"Jul 21 02:57
ThistleWebno roy = schestowitzJul 21 02:57
ThistleWebMr BNJul 21 02:57
sebsebsebedbian: neighborlee seems to be someone that likes WindowsJul 21 02:57
ThistleWebwindows are handy, they let the light inJul 21 02:58
ThistleWebcareful when walking about in the buff though ;)Jul 21 02:58
ThistleWebedbian: there's a whole world of info on BN that companies like MS try to ensure stays unreported by the mainstream mediaJul 21 02:59
ThistleWebif you're new to it all, it can be like Alice's rabbit holeJul 21 02:59
ThistleWebMS are very prolific in their crime spreeJul 21 03:00
edbianThistleWeb: Big Brother stuff huhJul 21 03:00
edbianlolJul 21 03:00
edbianI don't think I've ever hear the phrase "very prolific in their crime spree"  before :)Jul 21 03:00
ThistleWebMS are very inovative, but not in areas they can boast about to the publicJul 21 03:01
ThistleWebbribery, threats, astroturfingJul 21 03:01
ThistleWebit sometimes baffles you as to how they get away with as much as they doJul 21 03:02
ThistleWebbut then, organised crime paysJul 21 03:02
ThistleWebmake sure the bullies and bribes get to their targets on timeJul 21 03:03
oiaohmedbian: BN holds lots of information about court cases MS has lost documenting how they do business.Jul 21 03:04
oiaohmMS idea of doing business is not always legal.Jul 21 03:05
ThistleWebgroklaw is another similar site at preserving a legal history of various court actionsJul 21 03:09
ThistleWebabout MS, SCO etcJul 21 03:09
oiaohmThe blog side is schestowitz having some fun.   Documenting and logging is not the most fun job.Jul 21 03:10
ThistleWebyepJul 21 03:11
*edbian (n=ed@ has left #boycottnovell ("Ex-Chat")Jul 21 03:14
tessierschestowitz: Sorry, got distracted by work earlier. How is everything?Jul 21 03:17
neighborleesebsebseb, mostly necessityJul 21 03:18
sebsebsebneighborlee: why?Jul 21 03:18
neighborleesebsebseb, beyond that, d efinitely not so much..I admire and prefer oss b ecause its the great equalizerJul 21 03:18
neighborleesebsebseb, business needsJul 21 03:18
sebsebsebtessier: he is sleeping I thinkJul 21 03:19
neighborleesebsebseb, which im hard at work trying to circumvent ;(Jul 21 03:19
sebsebsebneighborlee: not just business,   all computer usersJul 21 03:19
neighborleeI mean me specificallyJul 21 03:19
tessiersebsebseb: Yes, I figured such.Jul 21 03:27
*wayne (n=teddy1@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 03:34
*HivenGlaven has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 03:45
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.")Jul 21 03:45
*twitter ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 04:16
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jul 21 04:22
*dsmith_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 04:47
*wayne has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 04:51
*dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Jul 21 05:38
twitterCome into my web, said the spider to the fly 21 05:38
*scelbybyteprimer (n=teddy1@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 05:39
twitterLinux on top of Windows.  FAT chance that's going to work right.Jul 21 05:39
twitterspyware in your blackberry straight from the phone company. 21 05:47
twitterRMS opines, " A cell phone company  installed spyware in its subscribers' blackberry computers.  The users found out only because of a fortunate bug that caused visible annoying symptoms.  The phone company was able to do this because the software in the blackberry is proprietary, thus not under the users' control.  The user's only known defense against these malicious features is to reject proprietary software and insist on free sJul 21 05:48
twitterYou can also point to Navistar and cell phone tapping by the US Federal government.  If it has a microphone a computer and is hooked to a network, make sure it's got free software.Jul 21 05:49
twitterThis is also true for Tivoised GNU/Linux phones.Jul 21 05:50
twitterwho's going to know what's really going on in a phone if you can't compile it yourself and run it.Jul 21 05:51
twitternon free software on top of GNU/Linux is just as untrustworthy as non free software elsewhere.Jul 21 05:52
twitterevery reign of terror has to have assassins 21 05:53
twitterRMS compares the program to one in Russia.  He also notes that the CIA goon squad could kill people in the US as easily as anywhere else.Jul 21 05:55
neighborleeLOL silverlight needed to view video of this 'cooperation' ;))Jul 21 06:10
neighborleegotta love itJul 21 06:10
*sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 06:22
Omar87LOLJul 21 07:16
*iKonaK (n=iKonaK@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 07:16
Omar87Microsoft are still determined to shove their junk down our throats.Jul 21 07:16
Omar87Too bad there are troll out there who clap whistle for this filthy propaganda.Jul 21 07:16
*iKonaK has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 07:16
Omar87who clap *and* whistle..Jul 21 07:16
*wallclimber ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 07:19
*wallclimber has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 07:21
tessierWow. SCO's goose is cooked.Jul 21 07:21
tessierGo Go Groklaw Buttrape!Jul 21 07:21
tessierAn Oracle developer is adding transcendent memory (tmem) to the Linux kernel...interesting.Jul 21 07:26
tessierOracle is doing some fairly good things for Linux.Jul 21 07:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Launchpad now Open Source under GNU AGPL 3 21 07:33
tessieroiaohm: Weren't you telling me about tmem the other day? I'm just reading about it on linux-kernel...neat stuff.Jul 21 07:37
schestowitzHey, tessier Jul 21 07:38
schestowitzSOmething in server settings seems to prevent automatic upgrade in WordPress. I did some research on it.Jul 21 07:38
schestowitzI'm not sure if PHP5 is installed. Some say it mind help.Jul 21 07:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] MSFT contributes kernel code to run virtualized Linux client on top of Win 2k8 host. So ass-backwards... 21 07:40
schestowitztessier: basically, what the WordPress software attempts to do is to pass in a file via FTP to localhost, but it fails.Jul 21 07:40
schestowitzIdentical issues are described here: 21 07:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Canonical previously said they'd not open source the whole of launchpad but changed their mind, and have. 21 07:41
schestowitzSee Otto's repliesJul 21 07:41
*tessier checks the php versionJul 21 07:43
tessierYep, it's php 5.1.6Jul 21 07:43
tessierschestowitz: The server is not running any sort of ftp. I don't understand where ftp would fit into upgrading wordpress.Jul 21 07:45
schestowitztessier: basically, WordPress upgrads itself when neededJul 21 07:46
schestowitzIt fetches in files via FTP to install plugins tooJul 21 07:47
schestowitzIt works on another hostJul 21 07:47
tessierIt FTP's out and brings the files down?Jul 21 07:47
schestowitzmaybe it can be temporarily allowed?Jul 21 07:47
schestowitztessier: yesJul 21 07:47
tessierOr does the server need to run an ftp server itself for something to ftp into?Jul 21 07:47
schestowitzThen it does all the rest like uncompressing, upgrading, installing, etc.Jul 21 07:47
tessierThere should be nothing stopping wordpress from ftp'ing files from another serverJul 21 07:47
schestowitzDoesn't the server already run just SSH/SCP?Jul 21 07:48
schestowitzOh, I see...Jul 21 07:48
schestowitzI'm always just using fish:// (SCP)Jul 21 07:48
schestowitzit basically works like thatJul 21 07:49
schestowitzThere are two optionsJul 21 07:49
schestowitzOne of SFTP and one FTPJul 21 07:49
schestowitzAnd WordPress needs login credentials of the localhostJul 21 07:49
schestowitzI.e. same as used for SCPJul 21 07:49
tessierYes, the server already rnus ssh/scp/sftpJul 21 07:49
tessierYou can give it your boycottn credentialsJul 21 07:50
schestowitzTHat's what I tried, but it gave the error shown in the WordPress forums (as above)Jul 21 07:50
schestowitzIt seems not to connectJul 21 07:50
tessierI still don't understand how ftp is being used here.Jul 21 07:55
tessierAre you running an ftp client and trying to connect to the server?Jul 21 07:55
schestowitzI reckon maybe the connection is made from the outsideJul 21 07:57
schestowitztessier: WordPress connects.Jul 21 07:57
schestowitzOr maybe it calls for a connection to be made to localhost and pass the gunzipped softwareJul 21 07:57
tessierWordPress the company?Jul 21 07:58
tessierAs in they upload updates to you?Jul 21 07:58
schestowitzI've just tried from Konqueror and could connect via SFTPJul 21 07:58
schestowitztessier: yesJul 21 07:58
schestowitzfor the software (WordPress) to install the patchJul 21 07:59
tessier 21 07:59
tessierFrom that description it sounds like wordpress itself goes out and downloads the softwareJul 21 07:59
tessierConnects to the ftp server at wordpress.orgJul 21 07:59
tessierSo we don't need to run our own ftp server...Jul 21 08:00
schestowitzI wonder why it requires that I give it login cedentials for the local account on the serverJul 21 08:00
tessierNo idea.Jul 21 08:01
tessierI need to get some sleep. I can help you out with this some more tomorrow. Sounds like I need to do some more reading on this automatic upgrade thing.Jul 21 08:01
schestowitzTHanks a lot.Jul 21 08:02
schestowitzGood nightJul 21 08:02
schestowitzIt would ease all future upgradesJul 21 08:02
tessiernight!Jul 21 08:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] _Really_ didn't need to see that in my news reader at breakfast time. Good points made though. :(Jul 21 08:13
*Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.")Jul 21 08:19
*tacone (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 08:41
*wizz_ (n=wizz@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 09:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The days of publishing anything in print may be numbered. 21 09:25
schestowitzThe latest sort of talking point out there seems to be that SUgar -- not abuse from companies like Intel and Microsoft -- harmed OLPCJul 21 09:26
schestowitz"They didn't just lose focus, they lost a lot of goodwill by working with MS. " 21 09:28
Ngworld sees negroponte as OLPC's biggest mistake? ;)Jul 21 09:34
Ngthe guy seems to have done a lot of harm to his own project ;(Jul 21 09:34
schestowitzHe spoke to Gates back around 2006 ot 07Jul 21 09:35
schestowitzGave him some memory sticks in 2007 AFAIKJul 21 09:35
schestowitzTurned people offJul 21 09:35
taconeuhJul 21 09:38 has a good post on rmsJul 21 09:39
schestowitzHe hates himJul 21 09:39
taconewell... not really good. yet another attack.Jul 21 09:39
schestowitzAhJul 21 09:39
schestowitzYes another. No surprise thereJul 21 09:39
taconeshameful post. worth readingJul 21 09:39
schestowitz 21 09:40
schestowitz 21 09:40
schestowitztacone: I'd rather read something not from those who want Linux to become a proprietary sort of platform.Jul 21 09:40
taconei wonder why those people use linuxJul 21 09:41
taconedo they, at least ?Jul 21 09:41
*pk ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 09:41
schestowitzHeh. 21 09:43
schestowitztacone: they use it cause they like itJul 21 09:43
schestowitzBut I wish they understood what's behind itJul 21 09:43
schestowitzThey are like the open source type... make money, don't think about freedomJul 21 09:43
*wizz_ has quit (Connection timed out)Jul 21 09:45
schestowitzSymbian signed malware - does signing matter? < >Jul 21 09:52
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 09:56
schestowitz_Goblin: did you see the Wilcox article?Jul 21 09:59
*wizz (n=wizz@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 10:00
_Goblinthe one where he closed his blog?Jul 21 10:04
schestowitzNo.Jul 21 10:04
schestowitzHe writes for BetaNews nowJul 21 10:04
_Goblinyeah I have the RSS....havent read it yet..Jul 21 10:05
_Goblinany good?Jul 21 10:05
schestowitzNo.Jul 21 10:05
schestowitz 21 10:05
schestowitzFUD advice to his friends at RedmondJul 21 10:05
schestowitzI'm telling you, Wilcox is not your friendJul 21 10:05
_GoblinIll give it a look...Ive been busy with COLA this morning....Jul 21 10:05
schestowitzLook at his work as an 'analyst'Jul 21 10:05
_Goblinand in regards to Wilcox.......Jul 21 10:05
_GoblinI agree with you....Jul 21 10:06
_GoblinI did say some time ago I was wrong about him.....Jul 21 10:06
schestowitz_Goblin: re COLA, don't feed that trollsJul 21 10:06
_Goblinno i dont.Jul 21 10:06
schestowitzTHat's what they want. Pay them no attention or filter them like many of us doJul 21 10:06
_GoblinI am going to be highlighting one for an article...Ive collected some interesting info on him....Jul 21 10:07
_Goblin"Moshe Goldfarb"Jul 21 10:07
schestowitzSomeone sent me pages of his writings in Jupiter Research.. from (pages no longer there, apparently)Jul 21 10:07
schestowitzA Microsoft-focused person needs Microsoft to succeed, for his/her livelihoodJul 21 10:08
_GoblinI am using him as an example to those who dont use the NG's....Jul 21 10:08
schestowitzThere is no "Moshe"Jul 21 10:08
schestowitzIt's one among hundreds of nymsJul 21 10:08
_Goblinyep....but I have an ace up my sleeve which is not shown on COLA.Jul 21 10:08
schestowitzThat name is actually one of a holocuast surviver that Gary M Stewart defamesJul 21 10:08
schestowitz_Goblin: the trolls are there to derail dicussionJul 21 10:09
_Goblinyep.Jul 21 10:09
schestowitzTo change topic when distraction is neededJul 21 10:09
schestowitzBest way to fight them: ignore, stay on topicJul 21 10:09
_GoblinI dont think they will derail this one though.Jul 21 10:09
schestowitzPro-linux, no sight of trollsJul 21 10:09
schestowitzNo, they never managed to derail itJul 21 10:09
schestowitzNot in over a decade. it even gained paceJul 21 10:10
_GoblinI think its a good sign....if there wasnt a fear there would be no trolls.Jul 21 10:10
schestowitzYesJul 21 10:11
schestowitzSaid before..Jul 21 10:11
schestowitzLinux is the biggest threat to themJul 21 10:11
schestowitzMicrosoft eases back on IE 8 default < >Jul 21 10:15
schestowitzThey treat is like Microsoft is the good guy, after all the horrible things it didJul 21 10:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nice new game coming to Linux: ("After 6 years, fan-made Star Fox looks great")Jul 21 10:15
schestowitzFew days left before Microsoft financial embarrassment. No doubt some Mac people will be jubilant tooJul 21 10:17
oiaohmBiggest threat is not really Linux.   Biggest threat is if anything appears that is cross platform that breaks there ms office/server interlink.Jul 21 10:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @markey: Launchpad finally opens up :) 21 10:20
schestowitzHehe. People make predication and NUMBERS for 2020.. 21 10:21
schestowitzThat's too far for predictions on mobile 'apps'Jul 21 10:21
schestowitzoiaohm: middleware like Java/Netscape?Jul 21 10:22
schestowitzThat was a risk over 10 years agoJul 21 10:22
schestowitzWhen Linux was not common or practical for desktops yet (1995 say..)Jul 21 10:22
oiaohmIts part of the reason for the agressiveness of MS against google.Jul 21 10:25
schestowitz SaaSJul 21 10:26
oiaohmkontact being ported cross platform incombination with kolab is a threat to the all important outlook exchange hybred.Jul 21 10:26
oiaohmsamba lining up to provide a ADS.Jul 21 10:27
schestowitzOr in simple terms, running apps via the browser, as Microsoft feared when Netscape thrivedJul 21 10:27
oiaohmBasically threats coming thick and fast.Jul 21 10:27
schestowitzNetscape+Java means rich applications over the WebJul 21 10:27
oiaohmAll from different directions.Jul 21 10:27
schestowitzMicrosoft wrote about itJul 21 10:27
oiaohmThey still fear the Netscape+Java like event.Jul 21 10:27
oiaohmExcept coming from google firefox and chrome.Jul 21 10:28
schestowitzHow will they monetise Office on the Web?Jul 21 10:28
schestowitzThis is insane and they know itJul 21 10:28
oiaohmAdvertising.Jul 21 10:28
schestowitzThey FUD GOogle Apps now endlesslyJul 21 10:29
oiaohmThey hope.Jul 21 10:29
schestowitzAnd they also use their proprietary formatsJul 21 10:29
schestowitzThey had another plotJul 21 10:29
oiaohmWonder how long before effective add replacement appears for on line MS Office.Jul 21 10:29
schestowitzMake Office online only to people with desktop copy of OfficeJul 21 10:29
schestowitzBut it misses the pointJul 21 10:29
schestowitzSo the issue remains.Jul 21 10:29
schestowitzSubscription? People don't want to pay. Other services are freeJul 21 10:29
oiaohmGoogle is working on means to run native code for web interfaces.Jul 21 10:30
schestowitzoiaohm: ads are the same issueJul 21 10:30
schestowitzTHey competeJul 21 10:30
schestowitzThey don't have monopoly onlineJul 21 10:30
schestowitzSo they don't set the rulesJul 21 10:30
oiaohmEven that they have spent billions trying to make a online monopoly.Jul 21 10:30
schestowitzLostJul 21 10:30
schestowitzNot just spentJul 21 10:30
schestowitzLike half a billion/quarter (or year)Jul 21 10:31
oiaohmYep since about 1995Jul 21 10:31
oiaohmIts a lot of cash lost.Jul 21 10:31
oiaohmI really don't see how MS can keep up dumping product for much longer.Jul 21 10:34
schestowitzWe need to show the angle of OOo and Linux versus Office and Windows profits, respectively.Jul 21 10:34
schestowitzStudents get Office free sometimesJul 21 10:34
oiaohmMS needs windows 7 to sell big time.Jul 21 10:34
schestowitzI heard from DaemonFC about it going for $5Jul 21 10:35
schestowitzSome people auction it on ebayJul 21 10:35
Ngoiaohm: they will sell a bunch of it automatically through new PC sales ;)Jul 21 10:35
oiaohmOEM's want it for less than Vista NgJul 21 10:35
schestowitzDoes V7 has a lockin?Jul 21 10:35
schestowitzOther than Vista's?Jul 21 10:36
schestowitz 21 10:36
schestowitzHere is Ballmer going insane over the economy and V7Jul 21 10:36
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 10:38
trmanco 21 10:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Attitude Says It All 21 10:46
oiaohmProblem is also the dumping is cutting into there PC sales of Office as well NgJul 21 10:47
schestowitztrmanco: they are miserable. And two faced.Jul 21 10:48
schestowitzIgnore the puppets like RamjiJul 21 10:48
trmancobut it is a good thing, sort ofJul 21 10:48
Ngoiaohm: sure, they'll still make a lot of money, just maybe less than before as they slowly contract and die :)Jul 21 10:48
schestowitzThe commands comes form above and he's still a PR peonJul 21 10:48
*amarsh04_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 10:49
trmancowhat they did, they did it to "promote" it's technology (which has no comparison with kvm), but hey, better then nothingJul 21 10:49
schestowitzEwww..Jul 21 10:49
schestowitzWatch the Novell ads at the top of the pageJul 21 10:49
trmancobut, the patch really should be reviewed, and well tested before linux becomes a hole...Jul 21 10:50
trmancoI didn't scroll to topJul 21 10:50
oiaohmMS is already in the contract stage.Jul 21 10:50
oiaohmThe question is can MS level it out before they die.Jul 21 10:51
schestowitz"Red Hat Inc., up $1.72 at $22.32"* 21 10:51
schestowitzoiaohm: not many admins will run Linux on WindowsJul 21 10:52
schestowitz"Oops. I can't reach my Linux server..."Jul 21 10:52
schestowitz"Why?"Jul 21 10:52
schestowitz"Well, WIndows crashed"Jul 21 10:52
schestowitzOr "WIndows has a Patch Tuesday"Jul 21 10:52
oiaohmSorry to say I know a lot here that will.Jul 21 10:52
oiaohmAt least at first.Jul 21 10:52
trmanco"Linus once say “If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won” ? :) "Jul 21 10:52
schestowitzWhy would anyone run a Ferrari on a  skaeboardJul 21 10:52
schestowitzoiaohm: they can make lock-insJul 21 10:53
oiaohmThese are MS brain washed Admins I am talking about.Jul 21 10:53
NgI think you can argue it both ways. It lets people moving to Windows get their linux stuff off bare hardware, and it lets people wanting to migrate away from windows prove the technologies without additional hardwareJul 21 10:53
schestowitzAll sorts of addictions...Jul 21 10:53
schestowitzBUT...Jul 21 10:53
schestowitz Microsoft's Linux driver offering planned for yearsJul 21 10:53
schestowitzSo bear in mind this is an OLD strategyJul 21 10:53
schestowitzIt might be out of date by nowJul 21 10:53
*amarsh04__ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 10:54
oiaohmIt was planed for years.Jul 21 10:54
schestowitzHyper-Pee never took offJul 21 10:54
oiaohmIt was meant to be something unique for Novell.Jul 21 10:54
oiaohmTo give Novell an advantage over other distributions.Jul 21 10:54
schestowitzThey still sort of struggle, but they control the management of VMware via EMCJul 21 10:54
oiaohmGuess what it has not worked out.Jul 21 10:54
schestowitzRed Hat made an agreementJul 21 10:54
schestowitzMonths agoJul 21 10:54
schestowitzSo it changedJul 21 10:55
schestowitzBut Red Hat pays Microsoft $0Jul 21 10:55
schestowitzSo Microsoft sort of gave up thereJul 21 10:55
schestowitzAnd they never beat Red Hat like they hoped in 2006Jul 21 10:55
schestowitzRed Hat still _hires_Jul 21 10:55
oiaohmRedhat wants to inspect every patent they sign off on.Jul 21 10:55
oiaohmNot a game patent holders like.Jul 21 10:55
schestowitzHmmmmm... should I post some Linux news?Jul 21 10:56
schestowitzBeen a day since I last did...Jul 21 10:56
schestowitzHappyGeek from LinuxDevice seems to be on a very long vacation, no?Jul 21 10:56
schestowitz*DevicesJul 21 10:56
schestowitzHe took over when Rick Lehrbaum left. I hope there's no permanent cessation or something.Jul 21 10:57
schestowitzI've totally lost track of TuxMachines newsJul 21 10:58
oiaohmTax time schestowitzJul 21 11:04
_GoblinRoy, completely off topic here....Have you seen the TV Sitcom the IT Crowd?Jul 21 11:04
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 11:04
*amarsh04 ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 11:04
oiaohmNormal break in device releases.Jul 21 11:04
schestowitz_Goblin: no, I haven't watched new sitcoms in yearsJul 21 11:06
_GoblinI would recommend...Ive just started watching it...IT guys in a basement of offices....the title music ends in a BSOD...its very good.Jul 21 11:07
Ng_Goblin: "I'm sorry, are you from the past?" ;)Jul 21 11:08
*amarsh04_ has quit (Connection timed out)Jul 21 11:08
_Goblinyeah..... 1840 I came here in a DelorianJul 21 11:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] India Bets on GNU/Linux with New Chips 21 11:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux is on the Shelves 21 11:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New List of Great New Features in Linux 21 11:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How the Freedom and Transparency of Linux Advance Itself 21 11:13
*amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 11:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Japanese Nuclear Lab Uses GNU/Linux 21 11:21
*pk has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jul 21 11:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sims 3 Runs on GNU/Linux 21 11:25
*amarsh04_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 11:41
*magentar ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 11:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment and GNOME Join Their Powers 21 11:47
*magentar has quit ("reboot")Jul 21 11:48
*amarsh04__ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 11:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Short Review of PCLinuxOS 2009.2 I used it and liked itJul 21 11:49
*wizz has quit ("Leaving")Jul 21 11:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Release of GeeXboX 1.2.3, Specialised GNU/Linux Distribution 21 11:50
*magentar ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 11:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Phones from Palm to Get an SDK Soon The Future is "Open Source Smartphones" 21 11:53
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 11:56
*scelbybyteprimer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 11:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software is Big Business, Income 21 12:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software CMSs Show That Drupal,Joomla, WordPress Skills Pay a Lot 21 12:02
*amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))Jul 21 12:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Freedom Software Comes to Genomics 21 12:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Calls Summer of Code "Externship" 21 12:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rackspace Tries to Antagonise Amazon Lock-in 21 12:12
*_Goblin has quit ("Lost terminal")Jul 21 12:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Foundation Site on Apollo 11 Software 21 12:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The EFF Finds New, Borader Coalition Against the ACTA Conspiracy 21 12:15
*ugufjhfj ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 12:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Man Claims to Own Photographs of His Sculpture 21 12:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Indonesia Says Intellectual Monopolies Are Against the Religion 21 12:19
*fewa ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 12:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO is in Big, Big Trouble (More "Fraud" Claimed) 21 12:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono is Not-So-Free Software (Ask Microsoft) 21 12:26
*amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 12:26
oiaohmI can understand why its getting more and more possiable to make 3d models from photos.Jul 21 12:27
schestowitzWhy?Jul 21 12:28
schestowitzResolution?Jul 21 12:28
schestowitzCPU power?Jul 21 12:28
schestowitzYou need undrstanding of the imageJul 21 12:28
schestowitzThen you can do speculative stereovisionJul 21 12:29
oiaohmWith sculpures.Jul 21 12:29
schestowitzOur brain has stereovisiob built inJul 21 12:29
oiaohmIts light .Jul 21 12:29
schestowitzLikewise inreverses the image that we see (flipping it upside down)Jul 21 12:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Linux 'Contribution' is All About Windows, Embrace, and Extend 21 12:29
oiaohmYou only 1 photo to make a part 3d image.Jul 21 12:29
oiaohmUsing the way shadows work.Jul 21 12:29
oiaohmBasically you can just take pictures from different angles and join them up to make a 3d model.Jul 21 12:30
schestowitzYes, that's not newJul 21 12:30
oiaohmIt is a lot of processing time but doable.Jul 21 12:30
schestowitzI was doing a PhD in the area and location of corners and edges allows you to build 3d mapsJul 21 12:31
schestowitzEven the human eye can do itJul 21 12:31
*amarsh04 ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 12:31
schestowitzCover one eye and judge by undersranding of your surroundingJul 21 12:31
schestowitzoiaohm: speed dpeends on image sizeJul 21 12:31
oiaohmWith my eyes I sometimes are only working on 1.Jul 21 12:31
schestowitzA lot of things can tested in 32x32Jul 21 12:31
schestowitzOr 32x32x32Jul 21 12:31
oiaohmOnly problem I have is airborn objects.Jul 21 12:32
oiaohmThat needs both eyes to range.Jul 21 12:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How the FSF Resolved the Debate About #mono (Which is Indeed a Trojan) 21 12:34
oiaohmHard bit for processing is working out how the different angles 3d models join up.Jul 21 12:34
oiaohmIe what is back ground and can be junked..Jul 21 12:34
*pk ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 12:40
*Python1320 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jul 21 12:40
*Python1320 (n=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 12:41
neighborleeoiaohm, thx for url..I was hoping to hearing something definitely soon about the new promise ;)Jul 21 13:08
*tacone (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 13:34
*ThistleWeb ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 13:35
*harrytuttle (i=528c0ab2@gateway/web/freenode/x-b35c750fb0ec00dc) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 13:38
harrytuttlehello, im still looking for someone who knows how to do properly a distro (ubuntu) repackagingJul 21 13:40
harrytuttleanyone done this before?Jul 21 13:41
taconereason ?Jul 21 13:41
*ugufjhfj has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jul 21 13:41
taconeschestowitz: mdz likes sam varghese and BNJul 21 13:41
tacone 21 13:41
harrytuttletacone: getting experience with doing a forkJul 21 13:42
taconeyou want to fork the entire distro ?Jul 21 13:43
*pk has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 13:45
*amarsh04_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 13:49
Muttleysurprised you guys haven't done one yet. could call it uBNuntuJul 21 13:54
harrytuttlewell, not completely fork, maybe call that a derivateJul 21 13:57
trmancothere already are manyJul 21 13:57
harrytuttlethen why not add another one? :_)Jul 21 13:58
harrytuttlei saw 2 tools: remastersys and reconstructorJul 21 13:58
ThistleWebubuntu does need a good xfce and kde variant so there's still a niche to fillJul 21 13:59
harrytuttleare there limits as to do add or reconfigure stuff?Jul 21 14:00
ThistleWebthough I coubt canonical would be endorse either one considering they have official versions themselvesJul 21 14:00
ThistleWeb;)Jul 21 14:00
harrytuttlei mean, would adding/removing stuff be as simple as apt-get?Jul 21 14:01
*monkeyboy (i=dcff07ea@gateway/web/freenode/x-1105b2347bcc83ee) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 14:01
*monkeyboy has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 14:02
ThistleWebyou could go the crunchbang route, but on your own path, start with the ubuntu minimal cd and build your distro from that, rather than the full ubuntuJul 21 14:02
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jul 21 14:03
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 14:05
*thenixedreport (n=thomas@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 14:06
thenixedreportWhat's up?Jul 21 14:07
thenixedreportHow's it going everyone?Jul 21 14:07
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:07
MinceRthe direction opposite that of the gravitational field of the nearest cosmic bodyJul 21 14:07
MinceR:)Jul 21 14:07
thenixedreportCool.Jul 21 14:07
thenixedreportGetting stuff on Ebay is pretty difficult.Jul 21 14:07
thenixedreportAt least if you're budget is really low.Jul 21 14:07
desuD:Jul 21 14:08
thenixedreport 21 14:08
*desu slaps MinceR Jul 21 14:08
MinceRdesu desu desu desuJul 21 14:08
thenixedreportI'm thinking about bidding on the EeePC.Jul 21 14:08
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:08
thenixedreportSo Bruce Byfield was biased I hear.Jul 21 14:09
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:09
desuMinceR MinceR MinceRJul 21 14:09
thenixedreportDoes anybody know the e-mail address of RMS?Jul 21 14:09
thenixedreportThat way, I can do what Byfield failed to do (note: I haven't read Byfield's piece yet)Jul 21 14:09
MinceRi'd expect to find it on fsf.orgJul 21 14:09
fewarms@stallman.orgJul 21 14:09
thenixedreportI'll take a look there.Jul 21 14:09
MinceRright, he has a personal site tooJul 21 14:10
thenixedreport@fewa: has he responded to e-mails sent there?Jul 21 14:10
fewawhoops that wrongJul 21 14:10
thenixedreportOh.Jul 21 14:10
thenixedreportOk.Jul 21 14:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 50 New CSS Techniques For Your Next Web Design: 21 14:10
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:10
fewarms aT gnuJul 21 14:10
thenixedreportAh, thanks.Jul 21 14:10
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:10
thenixedreportNow are there certain e-mail address (such as ones from Google) that he won't read at all?Jul 21 14:11
fewawell its better to use your own name for your emailsJul 21 14:11
fewainstead of having another company own your nameJul 21 14:12
thenixedreportSo using my gmail address wouldn't be a good idea then?Jul 21 14:12
amarsh04_rms has replied to an email I sent... using my isp account's email addressJul 21 14:12
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Jul 21 14:13
desutrmanco: nice....Jul 21 14:19
trmanco:-)Jul 21 14:19
Balrogso ... launchpad has been released as FOSS under the agplJul 21 14:27
Balrog 21 14:27
ThistleWebBalrog: it has? wow, I thought it'd been delayedJul 21 14:28
Balrogand all of it, tooJul 21 14:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] most important microsoft patent mystery finally solved earth-shattering!Jul 21 14:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Verdict on Microsoft’s Linux Patch: Embrace, Extend, and Assimilate 21 14:34
schestowitz<Muttley> "uBNuntu" would only need mono-nono preinstalledJul 21 14:35
schestowitzAnd I think gnewsense is already doing thatJul 21 14:35
schestowitzBut gnewsense is not for everyone('s hardware)Jul 21 14:35
Balrogschestowitz: why is there even mono in gnewsense's repos?Jul 21 14:35
ThistleWebschestowitz: did you hear the latest Linux Action Show? BN get's a mentionJul 21 14:35
ThistleWebinbetween some mono loveJul 21 14:35
MinceRthey might be using the ubuntu reposJul 21 14:35
MinceRlike kubuntu and xubuntu doJul 21 14:36
Balrogahh.Jul 21 14:36
thenixedreportBingo.Jul 21 14:36
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:36
twitterUgh.  Byfield is a tool.Jul 21 14:36
twitterHe printed Lefty's smear of RMS.Jul 21 14:36
schestowitzBalrog: in the repos it's OKJul 21 14:36
schestowitzChoice and FreedomJul 21 14:36
schestowitzJust don't depend on itJul 21 14:36
schestowitzAs the FSF saidJul 21 14:36
schestowitzThat was always the suggestion. Don't distribute with Microsoft stuffJul 21 14:37
schestowitzSame for wine to an extent... but Wine only runs .exesJul 21 14:37
twitterLet's see 21 14:37
schestowitzThistleWeb: I couldn't find the mentionJul 21 14:37
twitterJuly 3, "Let's Settle the Mono Debate"Jul 21 14:37
ThistleWebit's about 50 mins inJul 21 14:37
schestowitzGroklaw was unimpressed by all of Byfield's pieces on MonoJul 21 14:38
twitterJuly 8, "Open Source Landmark:  Mono Freed at Last?"Jul 21 14:38
schestowitzHe tries to seem balancedJul 21 14:38
ThistleWebthey do the mature adult thing when talking about "zealots who give us all a bad name" without naming BNJul 21 14:38
schestowitzBut the convictions show throughJul 21 14:38
ThistleWeba site about novell and boycottingJul 21 14:38
twitterJuly, "Richard Stallman, Leadership and Sexism"Jul 21 14:38
ThistleWebmaybe it's about 40 actually now I think abou titJul 21 14:39
twitterIt's pretty transparent, just like his treatment of Boycott Novell and Slashdot shich he also smears.Jul 21 14:39
schestowitzwhat was the URL?Jul 21 14:39
MinceRi don't see what's "mature" or "adult" about itJul 21 14:39
ThistleWebit's around the middle anyway, the mono stuff takes up quite a large partJul 21 14:39
twitter 21 14:39
ThistleWebMinceR: I guess you missed the sarcasmJul 21 14:39
ThistleWebjupiterbroadcasting.comJul 21 14:39
MinceRi guess i did :>Jul 21 14:39
schestowitz"...Lefty and some anonymous troll, which has escalated to the point where the other party has been emailing me (the blog owner) threats and conspiracy theories..."Jul 21 14:40
schestowitzSee? I told you.Jul 21 14:40
schestowitz "That amazes me, too. I posted a single comment on BoycottNovell and between 8:24AM and 2:39PM I got 18 emails in my inbox, all from a guy named "Lefty", who is one of the worst astroturfers on BN."Jul 21 14:40
schestowitzhe mailed me like 20 times tooJul 21 14:40
twitterHe starts the article with four or five paragraphs of apology for what he's about to do.  Dismisses opposition and quotes Lefty.Jul 21 14:40
schestowitzBut let's not talk about itJul 21 14:41
schestowitzI don't want to be on this firing lineJul 21 14:41
schestowitzThistleWeb: thanks for the video linkJul 21 14:41
twitterThen they shut you up ahead of time.Jul 21 14:41
MinceRhm, does not banning astroturfers reflect badly on us then?Jul 21 14:41
MinceR"astroturfers on BN"Jul 21 14:41
twitterno, it reflects badly on astroturfersJul 21 14:41
ThistleWebnp, I subscribe to the audio rss feed but they do have it in various versionsJul 21 14:41
MinceRschestowitz: you could give him a shiny new line in your sieve/maildrop/procmail script :>Jul 21 14:42
ThistleWeblike I said, there's a lot about mono in that epJul 21 14:42
twitterIT management's web site sucks.  It's one of those that's broken for Lenny users.Jul 21 14:42
ThistleWebthen onto peeps who make the community "look bad" which they include you and RMSJul 21 14:42
*Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 14:42
Diablo-D3 21 14:42
Diablo-D3oh wowJul 21 14:42
ThistleWebBryans latest blog post is also on the same theme about RMSJul 21 14:42
Diablo-D3I dont think I've ever laughed so hard everJul 21 14:42
twitterIt serves an advert that blows up every browser I have on Lenny and I can only read the trash in KDE 4.Jul 21 14:43
schestowitz<tacone> schestowitz: mdz likes sam varghese and BNJul 21 14:43
schestowitzHe does?Jul 21 14:43
schestowitzI got the opposite impression for some reason.Jul 21 14:43
taconeschestowitz: read the link. obviously not.Jul 21 14:43
schestowitzSOme people spread the misconception that I have something against UbuntuJul 21 14:43
Diablo-D3schestowitz: read that url I just posted nowJul 21 14:43
Diablo-D3it is beyond epicJul 21 14:43
schestowitzBecause some zealots out there use BN posts to troll UbuntuJul 21 14:43
twitterThe usual smear Roy, that you hate Linux and freedom.Jul 21 14:44
twitterThe trolls will say anything to have people not listen to you.Jul 21 14:44
thenixedreport 21 14:46
taconeschestowitz: this comment 21 14:46
thenixedreportHe responded to my comment.Jul 21 14:46
thenixedreportAnd dang.Jul 21 14:46
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 14:46
MinceRinteresting -- the man who pretty much founded the community makes it look bad by standing up to the same idealsJul 21 14:46
MinceRperhaps they should look for another community then.Jul 21 14:46
schestowitzThistleWeb: 21 14:47
schestowitzThistleWeb: 21 14:47
schestowitzLundy uses Windows at workJul 21 14:47
ThistleWebBryan does like controversyJul 21 14:48
ThistleWebBrayn and Chris seem like nice blokes, just some of their opinions have been kinda oddJul 21 14:49
twitterUgh, Byfield takes it to the next level ->  What compounds the problem is that sexism is an ongoing problem in free software, but many people are reluctant to admit the fact.Jul 21 14:50
MinceRhuh?Jul 21 14:50
MinceRi've never heard of that beforeJul 21 14:50
MinceRwhat did he pull that out of?Jul 21 14:50
twitterFree software is sexist according to Byfield.  Didn't you notice?Jul 21 14:50
twitterHe pulled it out of the thin air after reading Lefty's blog.Jul 21 14:51
trmancono extra op?Jul 21 14:51
twitterA world that's dominated by irc and email exchanges about code is the least sexist place on earth.Jul 21 14:52
trmancoI could be one, I'm always online :-PJul 21 14:52
trmancoas long as my bouncer doesn't dieJul 21 14:52
MinceRif we want extra ops, we should use flags in chanserv, imoJul 21 14:52
MinceRotherwise it just won't stickJul 21 14:52
trmancoyeahJul 21 14:52
twittermore shit.  -> women's participation in free software is much lower than their participation in proprietary software development -- less than one-twentieth, according to the keynote that Angela Byron delivered at this year's Open Web Vancouver conference? Why else do organizations like LinuxChix and Debian Women exist?Jul 21 14:53
twitter->  as disturbing as his comment and justification undeniably are, to concentrate on them too much would be a waste of energy. For all his accomplishments, Stallman is one person, and, like anyone, he is capable of errors in judgment. We should deplore his comment and move on.Jul 21 14:55
twitterThat's it people, let's be mature adults and condemn RMS.Jul 21 14:56
twitterIt's obvious that RMS hates the Virgin Mary, Apple Pie and kittens.Jul 21 14:56
thenixedreport@twitter: I'm gonna quote you.Jul 21 14:56
thenixedreport:PJul 21 14:56
twitter-> to keep silent, I believe, is to accept free software while it is less than it can be -- and that is not something that I want to do. Nor should anyone else.Jul 21 14:57
twitterThat's it!  To make free software better, we have to all parrot a hatchet job.Jul 21 14:58
twitterSanctimoniously accept a lie about the free software world and perpetuate it.Jul 21 14:59
twitterLook, I'm ridiculing Byfield.  I must hate men.  Sexisim!Jul 21 14:59
twitterAsk yourself why there's so few "real journalists," as he likes to call himself, in the free software world?Jul 21 15:00
twitterI heard this was addressed at the M$ sponsored Sockpuppet Con 2006.Jul 21 15:01
*scelbybyteprimer (n=teddy1@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 15:01
twitterThat's enough of this for me.  Byfield has really shown his true colors on this one.Jul 21 15:03
*skjg (i=5496edb6@gateway/web/freenode/x-7aa885ef93e4dd44) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 15:03
schestowitzThistleWeb: it's no news that Action Show resents usJul 21 15:04
schestowitzSee the posts I showed youJul 21 15:04
schestowitzThey also have the FSFJul 21 15:04
ThistleWebyeah I read themJul 21 15:04
ThistleWebLAS seem to be pissing many Linux peeps offJul 21 15:05
schestowitzGNU/Linux peepsJul 21 15:05
schestowitzBut what's new to me is that Lundy is a Windows user :-DJul 21 15:05
schestowitzPricelessJul 21 15:05
twitterha ha, Grey Geek dreams on ->    It wouldn't suprise me if De Icaza moved to UbuntuJul 21 15:05
twitterI would not be surprised if Icaza was using Windows.Jul 21 15:06
*wallclimber ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 15:06
twitterI know other .NET people who are.  It seems to go hand in hand.Jul 21 15:06
schestowitztwitter: he does sometimesJul 21 15:06
schestowitzhe releases Windows-only s/w a while backJul 21 15:06
twitterfiguresJul 21 15:07
ThistleWebjust reading (or skimming over) the comments on  and noticed a thread, most of the attacks are all from a pretty prolific poster called AnonymousJul 21 15:07
schestowitzMinutes apartJul 21 15:07
twitterSo, I'd be surprised if Icaza moved to Ubuntu, from Windows.Jul 21 15:07
schestowitzWho knows....Jul 21 15:07
schestowitzI would not go as far as suggesting that people do a puppet show in their own blog for decorative discussionJul 21 15:08
twitterLefty's blog had 100 comments immediately.Jul 21 15:08
skjgThistleWeb: lol, you realize that "Anonymous" is not one guy but everyone who isn't logged in while entering a comment? ;PJul 21 15:08
twitterIt's as if he set it up that way to pretend he's open to feed back.  Open at the bottom of a 100 post sewer.Jul 21 15:08
ThistleWebskjg: again IRC let's me down in expressing sarcasm :/Jul 21 15:09
skjg:DJul 21 15:09
ThistleWebdamn IRCJul 21 15:09
ThistleWebwe need smileys ala YahooJul 21 15:09
ThistleWeb:(Jul 21 15:09
schestowitzThistleWeb: I found it amusing that LAS accuses Red Hat of spreading FUSJul 21 15:10
schestowitz*FUDJul 21 15:10
schestowitzOhhhh.. those Fedora  'zealots' say there are legal issues with MonoJul 21 15:10
schestowitz[so does the FSF]Jul 21 15:11
ThistleWebyeah they have made some bizarre claims about RH and Fedora in recent weeksJul 21 15:11
schestowitzRed Hat does not spread FUDJul 21 15:11
schestowitzIt also competes with Novell, which spreads MonoJul 21 15:11
ThistleWebI have no love for Fedora but I respect their value to the FOSS ecosystem, and RH don't get anywhere near the praise they deserve for their contributionsJul 21 15:12
ThistleWebLinux would be a lot worse off without RHJul 21 15:12
ThistleWebsometimes LAS do have a point, but the way they choose to make it is provocativeJul 21 15:14
ThistleWebbut it's a "show", which means "do your TV presenter act" when explaining stuffJul 21 15:14
twitterThere you go. 21 15:21
twittertime to go to work.Jul 21 15:21
*twitter has quit ("Leaving.")Jul 21 15:21
*twitter ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 15:26
twitter:)Jul 21 15:26
*harrytuttle has quit ("Page closed")Jul 21 15:27
fewaLAS?Jul 21 15:28
fewaRH contributes a ton of stuffJul 21 15:28
*amarsh04 wonders which Lundy people are referring to. This one: ?Jul 21 15:31
ThistleWebLAS = Linux Action ShowJul 21 15:32
amarsh04Pia Waugh works for Senator Kate Lundy these daysJul 21 15:33
ThistleWebfound at jupiterbroadcasting.comJul 21 15:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Revisited: The FSF’s and Red Hat’s Position on Mono 21 15:35
wallclimberI've avoided reading much about the Stallman "sexist remarks" kerfluffle, but I decided to read some of the links posted here.Jul 21 15:41
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 15:41
amarsh04schestowitz, should the recent article: "OPEN SOURCE EVEN OF THE YEAR OPEN WORLD FORUM UNVEILS PROGRAM" use the word "EVENT" instead of "EVEN"?Jul 21 15:42
*pk ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 15:42
wallclimberit seems to me that people are making a huge problem out of a very small incidentJul 21 15:42
schestowitzamarsh04: is the typo in the original too?Jul 21 15:43
schestowitzwallclimber: it was a parodyJul 21 15:43
schestowitzI hope you don't read the 'wrong' links aboveJul 21 15:43
schestowitzThey are put here to show the anti-RMS biasJul 21 15:43
wallclimberi know.Jul 21 15:43
wallclimberI'm pretty good at spotting the garbageJul 21 15:44
wallclimber: )Jul 21 15:44
wallclimberit all just seems like people making a lot of noise about something silly, to take attention away from real issuesJul 21 15:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] According to #Microsoft, #Linux is a bigger threat to the company than #Apple - #windows #vista #fossJul 21 15:46
amarsh04it's in the original schestowitz, so I'm emailing the contact for that web siteJul 21 15:47
wallclimberi can personally attest to the fact that sexism, and prejudice against old folks exists.  But if we all get our feelings hurt every time an ignorant person says something thoughtless, we'd never get anything accomplishedJul 21 15:47
schestowitzamarsh04: no needJul 21 15:47
schestowitzIt's their own problemJul 21 15:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "According to #Microsoft, #Linux is a bigger threat to the company than #Apple" - #windows #vista #fossJul 21 15:47
_Goblinsorry guys for the double post....forgot the ""Jul 21 15:47
schestowitzGood recapJul 21 15:48
taconeF-spot can be conveniently substituted by, which is 21 15:51
taconebad, you link to the hicham repository, while now it's in the officialJul 21 15:51
amarsh04sometime schestowitz I feel that sites with typos need reminding that they've had typos that no-one even noticed for a while... makes them realise how little some people notice what's on some web sitesJul 21 15:52
taconeyou link also to the official one, but it's messyJul 21 15:52
schestowitzNo big deal..Jul 21 15:52
schestowitzIMHOJul 21 15:52
taconei agree. i just noticed because of the trackbackJul 21 15:53
taconeno problem for me.Jul 21 15:53
amarsh04I don't mind linking to a site with comments that links back to an original article when part of the information is how others reacted to the original articleJul 21 15:54
amarsh04dead tree newspapers can be disengeneous (sp) lifting from web sites but leaving too little detail to find the source web pagesJul 21 15:55
_GoblinI've sometimes found "little gems" in the press that didnt appear in a RSS feed or google....(in relation to mags)Jul 21 15:56
_Goblina good example was yesterdays article on the IT pro's linux surveyJul 21 15:56
thenixedreportE-mailed Stallman.Jul 21 15:57
thenixedreportHopefully, he'll write back.Jul 21 15:57
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 15:57
_GoblinI would love to attend one of his talks...not because I agree with everything he says but I think he's a very interesting, educated individual...Jul 21 15:58
wallclimberGoblin: I agree, I think it would be great fun to attend one of his talks.  I do, however, think he's sometimes a bit lacking in people skills.Jul 21 16:00
_GoblinI don't agree with many on the IP debate...whilst I feel patents harm innovation, in respect of copyright I believe that software freedom should extend to developers also and they should have freedoms to release their work in anyway they want....Jul 21 16:00
_GoblinI believe RMS doesnt hold with that.Jul 21 16:00
wallclimberHmmm, don't developers already have the freedom to release their work any way they want?Jul 21 16:01
amarsh04sourcewire just replied about the "EVEN"/"EVENT" typoJul 21 16:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "I cant take it - Rocco & Bass T" ♫ 21 16:01
_Goblinyes. but doesnt RMS want "free data" and holds with a stance of "you can't steal it"??? I could be wrong there, but I am sure I heard a talk once with him saying something along those lines...Jul 21 16:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @JohnBirmingham OMFG Yes!!!! RT @Mr_RPBrown How to Become a Writer - The Harsh Reality 21 16:02
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jul 21 16:02
_GoblinI stand to be corrected though.Jul 21 16:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "June - Rocco & Bass -T" ♫ 21 16:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Tell Me When - Rocco & Bass-T" ♫ 21 16:05
thenixedreportLooks like I might be a response in a day or two.Jul 21 16:07
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 16:07
thenixedreport*getJul 21 16:07
thenixedreportWhoops.Jul 21 16:07
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 16:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IBM’s Latest Filing Regarding SCO Bankruptcy Mentions “Fraud” 21 16:10
_GoblinLol.... might want to see this:Jul 21 16:12
wallclimberBoth IBM and Novell's filings are great, they all sound very very peeved, and determined...very determined to get to the bottom of thingsJul 21 16:12
_Goblin"The Curious Case of Boycott Novell"Jul 21 16:12
_Goblin 21 16:12
schestowitzMicrosoft vs BN. Woo wha. *Sigh* They make it official...Jul 21 16:13
schestowitzWho wants op? I'm off for a whileJul 21 16:14
_GoblinNot me thanks!Jul 21 16:15
_GoblinI say...wallclimberJul 21 16:15
_Goblinor nixedreportJul 21 16:15
wallclimberwhat do I have to do?Jul 21 16:16
wallclimberI can stay logged in and watch things if neededJul 21 16:16
_GoblinRoy, I know you won't like this, but I have to do a response to that Armchair Theorist on my site...Jul 21 16:16
_Goblinwallclimber: I'm not sure if Roy is still here...Jul 21 16:17
_Goblinwallclimber: but you should put your name forward for would be good.Jul 21 16:17
wallclimberso tell me what "op" is, so I'll be smarterJul 21 16:17
wallclimber: )Jul 21 16:17
wallclimberOops "ops"Jul 21 16:18
_Goblinsimply the one who keeps an eye on the channel and kicks any trolling or vulgarityJul 21 16:18
_Goblinthat sort of thing.Jul 21 16:18
wallclimberoooh, I would love to kick some trolls...lolJul 21 16:18
wallclimberj/kJul 21 16:18
thenixedreportI'm actually going to head out briefly.Jul 21 16:18
thenixedreportGot some business with the university.Jul 21 16:18
_GoblinI'll second you when Roy is next in the channel (for ops)Jul 21 16:19
thenixedreportI'll stay logged in though.Jul 21 16:19
_Goblinwhat uni?Jul 21 16:19
_Goblinin the UK?Jul 21 16:19
_Goblingraduated at Heriot Watt in Scotland myself.Jul 21 16:19
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to _GoblinJul 21 16:20
_Goblinlol....Jul 21 16:20
schestowitzbblJul 21 16:20
_Goblintake care Roy..Jul 21 16:20
wallclimberbyeJul 21 16:20
*amarsh04 used to work at 21 16:20
_GoblinI miss my uni days....Jul 21 16:21
*_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 16:24
_Hicham_hi Lord SchestowitzJul 21 16:24
_Goblinhi _Hicham)Jul 21 16:25
_Goblinhi _Hicham_Jul 21 16:25
_Hicham_how r u doing _Goblin ?Jul 21 16:25
thenixedreport 21 16:27
thenixedreportMy response.Jul 21 16:27
_Goblinyeah not bad....Jul 21 16:27
_Goblinnixedreport, I will be making an article on my own blog...I won't be baited to that Microsoft employee's page.Jul 21 16:27
_Hicham_a microsoft evangelist between us ? greatJul 21 16:29
_Goblin_Hicham_ that article is way out of context...if ever there was proof of trying to discredit BN, I think thats it.Jul 21 16:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] US Republicans appeal directly to the "violent crazy person" demographic 21 16:31
_Hicham__Goblin : this blogger is just an MS puppetJul 21 16:32
_Hicham_giving his ass for nothingJul 21 16:32
_Goblinagreed....I can use his post to highlight the underhanded tactics to others less acqainted with what is happening here.Jul 21 16:33
amarsh04thenixedreport, that was a very calm and constructive responseJul 21 16:34
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 16:39
_GoblinThe question to be considered is: Does anyone think it strange that an MS employee would monitor BN channel?  If he truely believed what he was saying wouldnt he simply ignore?  Afterall I avoid the moon landing conspiracy sites because I find no worth in them....Jul 21 16:42
*wayne (n=teddy1@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 16:43
_Goblinhe makes quotes of 2 people (I believe) from an Ubuntu forum and whilst he tries to claim these comments show Roy as being discredited, he fails to mention the publicity gets within the Linux community....I have a contact in the press over in the UK...Jul 21 16:44
_GoblinI too have been monitoring and doing a little research...I think certainly with some aspects of whats going on here there will be an interest....Jul 21 16:45
*scelbybyteprimer has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jul 21 16:45
wallclimberGoblin:  I think monitoring is understandable, but commenting so much, and then bogging about it and drawing attention to it, while continually refusing to address the actual issues that BN headlines, is a bit over the topJul 21 16:46
_GoblinI think it highlights a bigger issue....if you look at my COLA activity you will see I post nothing offensive or vulgar, yet because I support a Linux platform myself (and now apparently my family) are the topic of hateful and vulgar posts...Jul 21 16:48
_Goblinall because I dare to suggest an alternative to Microsoft.Jul 21 16:48
wallclimberI sometimes think some of BN's headline are a bit overly dramatic, but it's not hard for readers to read the original sources if they wish, and make up their own mindsJul 21 16:48
_Goblinyes but I think every blogger is guilty of that and I think its made clear in the text that follows.Jul 21 16:49
_GoblinI recently made an article entitled "Facebook of Ballmer"Jul 21 16:49
_Goblinof course it wasnt...Jul 21 16:49
wallclimberlink?  May i read it?Jul 21 16:49
_Goblinstandby....Jul 21 16:49
_Goblinbe's my unique sense of humour....Jul 21 16:50
_Goblin 21 16:50
wallclimberreading now...Jul 21 16:50
wallclimberlol...VERY funny! : )Jul 21 16:54
_Goblinthanks - too kind..Jul 21 16:55
_Goblinmy email got hammered over that one.Jul 21 16:55
amarsh04one could make comments about the Barmer^Hy army (-:Jul 21 16:56
wallclimberthen you must have done something rightJul 21 16:56
_GoblinI think the KISS fans really took offense at the Ballmer story....Jul 21 16:56
wallclimberthere are still KISS fans???Jul 21 16:56
_Goblinthe MS shills got sort of lost in the plethora of hate from KISS fans.Jul 21 16:56
_Goblinapparently so...Jul 21 16:56
_GoblinI had one chap who typed about 1000 words telling me why they were the greatest.Jul 21 16:56
_GoblinI felt I had to respond and appologize when he had spent the time typing it.Jul 21 16:57
wallclimber(I'm on a business call...)Jul 21 16:57
*amarsh04 remembers seeing the dvd for KISS' show with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra in the music performance dvd shelvesJul 21 16:57
*_Goblin_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 17:03
_Goblin_just eating the hottest (spicy) chicken ive ever had...Jul 21 17:07
amarsh04sounds good... indian/thai/mexican...?Jul 21 17:10
_Goblin_caribeanJul 21 17:10
_Goblin_I believe....just wish I could spell it.Jul 21 17:11
amarsh04not familiar with that cuisineJul 21 17:11
_Hicham__Goblin : am I invited ?Jul 21 17:11
_Goblin_Im a big fan since I first went to nottinghill carnival and got my first taste of it....Jul 21 17:11
amarsh04"where the west indies cricket team come from" (-:Jul 21 17:11
_Goblin_btw if you are ever in the UK at the end of August I recommend going to the canival....its a great day.Jul 21 17:12
amarsh04thanks... I'm not sure if I ever will, had some family members over there March 2008 and they found it coldJul 21 17:14
amarsh04back in a while, have to get a few things doneJul 21 17:15
trmanco 21 17:16
*_Goblin has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 17:17
trmanco 21 17:17
*mikankun has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jul 21 17:37
*vida18 (i=564af050@gateway/web/freenode/x-98bdb11cce778c73) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 17:42
*vida18 has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 17:42
*vida18 (i=564af050@gateway/web/freenode/x-544ecce320a3fa7b) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 17:43
vida18Microsoft Office 2008 doesn't support ODF !!!Jul 21 17:44
*vida18 has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 17:45
*pk has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 17:48
*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 17:49
*cubezzz has quit ( 21 17:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @Seahorsemystic Universal grade change form 21 17:52
*Lns (n=lns@pdpc/supporter/professional/lns) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 17:53
trmanco 21 17:57
*amarsh04_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 17:59
wallclimberwow...I'd never read about "Deal Factories" before...Jul 21 18:06
wallclimberat least, not that there was a specific official name for themJul 21 18:08
*cubezzz ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:10
*tacone (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:11
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 18:12
wallclimberSam Ramji told The Reg we should: "Expect more from us on Red Hat in the coming weeks." (should RedHat be worried?)Jul 21 18:12
trmanconot at allJul 21 18:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #lameclaimtofame I grew up across the street from Australian cricketer Terry Alderman. His parents still live there.Jul 21 18:13
*macabe has quit ("Konversation terminated!")Jul 21 18:15
wallclimbertrmanco: when Microsoft says for someone to "expect more from us" - one must wonder if that's a threat or a promiseJul 21 18:16
trmancogood pointJul 21 18:16
*desu has quit ( 21 18:17
*desu (n=desu@unaffiliated/desu) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:18
wallclimberIn the "Deal Factory" powerpoint I was reading a while ago, it states that "In competitive situations: Don't lose" - isn't RedHat a serious competitor?Jul 21 18:22
wallclimberOops, I forgot to give a link to the "Deal Factory" - 21 18:22
*amd-linux (i=58418471@gateway/web/freenode/x-082e29199e251f96) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:23
amd-linuxis Roy here?Jul 21 18:24
*amd-linux has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 18:25
*tacone has quit ( 21 18:27
*Python1320 has quit ( 21 18:27
*fewa has quit ( 21 18:27
*tacone (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:29
*Python1320 (n=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:29
*fewa ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:29
*fewa has quit ()Jul 21 18:29
*fewa ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:29
*mikankun (n=mikankun@unaffiliated/angelfly) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:31
*amd-linux (i=58418471@gateway/web/freenode/x-278f1e635ff28645) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:39
amd-linux### But, even with the Sloan Foundation’s grant, INTERPOL did not have enough resources to make sure that the delegations of some of our less fortunate member countries could attend this conference. So, at the last minute we called Microsoft - already a partner of INTERPOL in fighting computer virus attacks and fighting sexual exploitation of children over the Internet - in order to help fund the travel costs of a numJul 21 18:40
*wallclimber has quit ( 21 18:40
*tessier has quit ( 21 18:40
amd-linuxMicro-Soft sponsored Interpol conferences in 2005.Jul 21 18:41
amd-linux 1.aspJul 21 18:41
amd-linux 21 18:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Be with you - Nixon" ♫ 21 18:42
amd-linuxMicro-Soft was or maybe still is "sponsoring" even Interpol. That is frightening. I wonder who else is on their payroll.Jul 21 18:43
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Jul 21 18:43
*tessier ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:44
*tessier__ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:44
*tessier has quit (Connection reset by peer)Jul 21 18:44
*yuhong ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 18:51
*yuhong has quit (Client Quit)Jul 21 18:52
*desu has quit ( 21 19:01
*desu ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 19:02
schestowitzI won :-DJul 21 19:07
Balrogwon what?Jul 21 19:07
Diablo-D3against who?Jul 21 19:08
schestowitzTable tennisJul 21 19:08
schestowitzHe's a better playerJul 21 19:08
schestowitzI was luckyJul 21 19:08
schestowitzQuarter finalsJul 21 19:08
Balrogcool.Jul 21 19:08
schestowitzI've just seen that smear from a Microsoft employeesJul 21 19:14
schestowitzOther Microsoft trolls and employees joined him in the comments with smearsJul 21 19:14
amd-linuxDid you guys read Vargheses article on the sexist allegations against RMS?Jul 21 19:15
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 21 19:16
amd-linuxTo me, this flaming shows that the FOSS community is beginning to be bored - the giant is falling, it is safe to assume that FOSS will take over the software world :-)Jul 21 19:16
schestowitzHeh.Jul 21 19:17
schestowitzWell.. what's the article's URLJul 21 19:17
_Goblin_there done...Jul 21 19:17
amd-linuxI mean both sides - I have not read everything about this issue because I think it is such a small thingJul 21 19:17
amd-linux 21 19:17
_Goblin_"A case of not so curious opinion" complete!Jul 21 19:17
amd-linuxRMS is a unique person who is not a politician, so he is stepping on others' toes from time to timeJul 21 19:19
amd-linuxbut the bloggosphere seems to be glad about the discussion - it fills up the summer gap nicely :-)Jul 21 19:20
schestowitz"Bryan Lunduke is also engaged in spreading doubts about Stallman:..." 21 19:20
schestowitzHere comes the anti-RMS brigagdeJul 21 19:21
schestowitzThey found their excuseJul 21 19:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "A case of not so curious opinion" - #microsoft #vista #windows #linux #foss #xpJul 21 19:21
schestowitzamd-linux: indeedJul 21 19:21
*Omar87 ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 19:21
schestowitzANd now I have a group of Microsoft employees smearing me tooJul 21 19:21
Omar87HiJul 21 19:21
amd-linuxwell, yeah - all these young Jedis should not forget that they would be nada without RMS and TorvaldsJul 21 19:21
schestowitz"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."Jul 21 19:22
schestowitz--Winston ChurchillJul 21 19:22
amd-linuxwhat about MS employees? You closed the comments so this should not be an issue anymore?Jul 21 19:22
schestowitzI'd have to do more Comes soon...Jul 21 19:22
amd-linuxdid you read my Interpol linkJul 21 19:23
schestowitzamd-linux: been quiet on the troll's frontJul 21 19:23
schestowitzAbusive E-mails declined tooJul 21 19:23
amd-linuxhehe, it is summer - trolls are on vacation :-)Jul 21 19:23
schestowitzI'll just do the news today, some more Comes tomorrow :-)Jul 21 19:23
schestowitzamd-linux: yeah, like WOng's "on vacation" excuseJul 21 19:23
schestowitzI'm a Microsoft employee...Jul 21 19:24
schestowitzBut I'm out of the office now..Jul 21 19:24
schestowitzSo I can troll...Jul 21 19:24
schestowitzI.e. do my 'rela jobJul 21 19:24
schestowitz--MS TEJul 21 19:24
amd-linux 21 19:24
schestowitzI honestly don't even think they go to MicrosofytJul 21 19:24
schestowitzTHeir blogs are outside MSDNJul 21 19:24
schestowitzThey probabluy 'work' (troll) from homeJul 21 19:25
schestowitzWong does not have a MS IP addressJul 21 19:25
schestowitzHe uses a GMAIL E-mai, address!!!!Jul 21 19:25
schestowitzTalk about disgusting affiliationJul 21 19:25
schestowitz*disguisingJul 21 19:25
schestowitzTHe fact that he responds with a smear is indicate of this being problematic to meJul 21 19:25
amd-linuxwell, obviously you were hitting some nerves :-)Jul 21 19:26
amd-linux"So, at the last minute we called Microsoft - already a partner of INTERPOL in fighting computer virus attacks and fighting sexual exploitation of children over the Internet - in order to help fund the travel costs of a number of our delegations and some other conference costs. "Jul 21 19:26
amd-linuxthat is from the Secretary General of InterpolJul 21 19:26
amd-linuxopenly admitting that Interpol is being funded by a company.Jul 21 19:27
schestowitz Jul 21 19:29
schestowitzDoes this require Silverlie?Jul 21 19:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Punched the bare-handedly about four or five times earlier this evening. My hand sort of hurts me a little now..Jul 21 19:29
schestowitzSomeone just mailed me thisJul 21 19:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Punched the wall bare-handedly about four or five times earlier this evening. My hand sort of hurts me a little now..Jul 21 19:30
mikankundoesn't look like it requires itJul 21 19:32
schestowitzmikankun: thanks.Jul 21 19:35
*amd-linux has quit ("Page closed")Jul 21 19:36
trmancowhere can I find a tarball of all pdf from comes vs microsoft?Jul 21 19:49
schestowitzIt used to be a torrentJul 21 19:50
schestowitzWe need to transcribe moreJul 21 19:53
schestowitzMicrosoft tried to 'invalidate' them by illegitimising the siteJul 21 19:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Chairs in Redmond will not like this one: 21 19:54
trmancoI can't find them :|Jul 21 19:55
schestowitzThere are 3+ mirrorsJul 21 19:55
schestowitzTHey aren't going anywhereJul 21 19:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT @schestowitz Chairs in Redmond will not like this one: #windows #microsoft #vista #xp #7 #linuxJul 21 19:56
schestowitzBTW, please stay polite in IRCJul 21 19:56
schestowitzOur foes monitor itJul 21 19:56
schestowitzWIth or without logsJul 21 19:56
schestowitz"CJ" for example was here (he worked for Microsoft) and now he participates with other Microsofters in s smear campaign against BN where he quotes IRC.... and they pass it around COLA and other placesJul 21 19:57
schestowitzMicrosoft profits are expected to decline  < >Jul 21 19:57
Diablo-D3heh, microsoft is pretty shitty stock thoughJul 21 19:59
Diablo-D3if I was an investment manager, I could never recommend it to my clientsJul 21 20:00
schestowitzEven if they bribe you to?Jul 21 20:00
schestowitzYou know, firms like Moody's were caught doign thatJul 21 20:00
schestowitzThey sell recommendationJul 21 20:00
Omar87Hi there.Jul 21 20:00
schestowitzAnd they sell mocking of your rival's stockJul 21 20:00
schestowitzFraudStreet(R) Services...Jul 21 20:00
schestowitzOmar87: some of your remarks, guys, are being used to discredit the siteJul 21 20:01
Diablo-D3schestowitz: they'd have to bribe me with an awful lotJul 21 20:01
schestowitzPlease be civil here at all times.Jul 21 20:01
schestowitzThey don't quote all of us and they also quote some of the trolls, but still....Jul 21 20:01
Diablo-D3microsoft just happens to have an awful lotJul 21 20:01
schestowitzNot reallyJul 21 20:02
Omar87schestowitz: Execuse me?Jul 21 20:02
schestowitzWhy would it borrow money?Jul 21 20:02
schestowitzOmar87: don't curse trollsJul 21 20:02
Diablo-D3remember, I take bribes in unmarked hundreds.Jul 21 20:02
schestowitzIgnore themJul 21 20:02
schestowitzNot you specificallyJul 21 20:02
Diablo-D3$500k minimumJul 21 20:02
schestowitzIt was a group that went into a swear-fightJul 21 20:02
Omar87schestowitz: When did I do that?Jul 21 20:02
schestowitzTroll love threatening and provoking to collect counter attack (defense)Jul 21 20:03
schestowitzIt's like when someone tosses an egg on Prescott and then makes him punchJul 21 20:03
schestowitzOmar87: when there were trolls in IRCJul 21 20:03
schestowitzBest to always ignore themJul 21 20:03
Omar87schestowitz: Okay, I won't curse them anymore, I promise.Jul 21 20:04
schestowitzThanks. I learned this the hard way...Jul 21 20:04
schestowitzWe're monitored closely now because we expose lots of thingsJul 21 20:05
Diablo-D3schestowitz: see, if microsoft pays me $500k right nowJul 21 20:05
Diablo-D3I will launch a large smear campaign against youJul 21 20:06
schestowitzYeah, I know :-)Jul 21 20:06
Balrogsmear campaigns usually fail, Diablo-D3Jul 21 20:07
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I dont seem to be getting any email :<Jul 21 20:07
schestowitzMicrosoft paid $15000 for Mac smearsJul 21 20:07
schestowitzOffered to Mac bloggersJul 21 20:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'No more CCTV', cries top CCTV cop 21 20:07
schestowitzI can find you the citeJul 21 20:07
Diablo-D3Seriously, I'm good at smear campaignsJul 21 20:07
schestowitzTHey also paid $200 for professors to mention Microsoft productsJul 21 20:07
schestowitzIt was in the news in the 90sJul 21 20:07
schestowitzDiablo-D3: you already smeared us beforeJul 21 20:07
Diablo-D3I could launch a thousand twitters at a drop of a hatJul 21 20:07
schestowitzDid you remove that smear?Jul 21 20:08
Diablo-D3schestowitz: at no point did I smear youJul 21 20:08
Diablo-D3I merely stated you go to extremes.Jul 21 20:08
schestowitzYou didJul 21 20:08
schestowitzNo, you liedJul 21 20:08
schestowitzYou could have asked for evidenceJul 21 20:08
*skjg has quit ("Page closed")Jul 21 20:08
Diablo-D3I also stated you had a ddos.Jul 21 20:08
Diablo-D3I also connected the two for my thousands of readers.Jul 21 20:08
schestowitzYes, I didn't DDOS myself . That'\s where you liedJul 21 20:08
schestowitzAnd TuxMachines referenced you Jul 21 20:09
Diablo-D3maybe tuxmachines is microsoft ran! oh noes!Jul 21 20:09
schestowitzYou celebrated the DDOS.Jul 21 20:09
schestowitzTux Machines is very trustworthyJul 21 20:09
Diablo-D3*gasp!*Jul 21 20:09
Diablo-D3maybe you work for microsoft!Jul 21 20:09
schestowitzMy favourtie Linux siteJul 21 20:09
Diablo-D3it all makes sense now!Jul 21 20:09
schestowitzYeah, Microsoft is behind pay,mentsJul 21 20:10
Diablo-D3thats the story of their lifeJul 21 20:10
schestowitzI figured if they are pressed towards bankruptcy they'd be pressured and pay faster ;-)Jul 21 20:10
schestowitzMy role at Microsoft is to criticise itJul 21 20:10
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I mean, really, its not like you can google my name with thrown in and find pages with my name on itJul 21 20:10
schestowitzReverse psychologyJul 21 20:10
schestowitzBy showing their criminal deeds I improve their image...Jul 21 20:11
schestowitzWha???Jul 21 20:11
Diablo-D3wait, I think you cantJul 21 20:11
schestowitzYou don't have a nameJul 21 20:11
schestowitzOhJul 21 20:11
Diablo-D3I do have a nameJul 21 20:11
schestowitzYou do..Jul 21 20:11
Diablo-D3/whois me moreJul 21 20:11
schestowitzP**k M*dJul 21 20:11
Diablo-D3wait, wtf?Jul 21 20:12
schestowitzNot to disclose it publiclyJul 21 20:12
Diablo-D3apparently you _can_ find my name on microsoft's websiteJul 21 20:12
Diablo-D3I stand corrected.Jul 21 20:12
MinceRdisregard the number of *-s :>Jul 21 20:12
schestowitz 21 20:13
Diablo-D3wow, I should mention this on my blogJul 21 20:13
schestowitzWhottt?Jul 21 20:13
Diablo-D3it'll give me street cred and shitJul 21 20:13
Diablo-D3"Possible Ex-Microsoft Employee says .NET sucks"Jul 21 20:13
MinceRlolJul 21 20:13
Diablo-D3I'll be so rich via ad views!Jul 21 20:13
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btw, why the fuck aren't you running ads on BNJul 21 20:14
schestowitzNo credibilityJul 21 20:14
schestowitzAnd it doesn't payJul 21 20:14
Diablo-D3thats no excuse!Jul 21 20:14
Diablo-D3hehJul 21 20:14
MinceRi think you should put "Possible Ex-Microsoft Employee" on your calling cardJul 21 20:14
Diablo-D3you get more page views than I doJul 21 20:14
schestowitzShane got $50/month and paid most of it to the hostJul 21 20:14
Diablo-D3and I make like $100 a monthJul 21 20:14
MinceRperhaps with the "Possible" part emphasizedJul 21 20:14
schestowitzAd revenues are mythsJul 21 20:15
schestowitzEsp. in tech sitesJul 21 20:15
schestowitzTechies don't click ads, let alone see anyJul 21 20:15
schestowitzEsp. Linux ones...Jul 21 20:15
schestowitzBN is an entity that's no business.Jul 21 20:16
Diablo-D3schestowitz: yetJul 21 20:16
Diablo-D3I dont get paid by clickJul 21 20:16
schestowitzNo, everJul 21 20:16
Diablo-D3so your entire argument is flawedJul 21 20:16
schestowitzDiablo-D3: is that really your name?Jul 21 20:17
schestowitzAnd: was that a different Microsoft guy with the same name"?Jul 21 20:17
Diablo-D3yes, thats really my nameJul 21 20:18
Diablo-D3and I have no clue if thats me on microsoft's siteJul 21 20:18
Diablo-D3its probably some microsoft smear campaignJul 21 20:18
Diablo-D3its clever, I'll give them thatJul 21 20:18
schestowitzI'm exposed, eh? Microsoft harvests libel about meJul 21 20:19
Diablo-D3schestowitz: seriously thoughJul 21 20:20
Diablo-D3I've been insulting microsoft on the internet longer than you haveJul 21 20:20
Diablo-D3if anything, you're a noobJul 21 20:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It's amazing how much libel about me I find by searching "schestowitz" in [Lies warning]Jul 21 20:21
Diablo-D3I mean, you're attacking the right company, but you really need to start automating this stuffJul 21 20:21
Diablo-D3you need something like slashcodeJul 21 20:22
schestowitz <- racist site according to LXerJul 21 20:22
schestowitzPeople's summer boredom is troublignJul 21 20:22
_Goblin_Diablo-D3 - Why do you need to attack anyone.?  The truth will out since in my honest held opinion Linux/FOSS is the far better system.Jul 21 20:22
schestowitz"You! You sexist! THAT sexist... Roy does this...  Ballmer goes mad..."Jul 21 20:22
Diablo-D3_Goblin_: because they attacked firstJul 21 20:23
Diablo-D3its merely a counterattackJul 21 20:23
schestowitzI suppose most people missed the accusations against Phoronix....Jul 21 20:23
Diablo-D3the truth is not enough to winJul 21 20:23
_Goblin_Diablo-D3: People will come over to FOSS if and when they are ready.  I think we need to maintain the moral highgroundJul 21 20:23
Diablo-D3its who can scream the loudestJul 21 20:23
Diablo-D3_Goblin_: moral shmoralJul 21 20:23
schestowitzKeep your Linux skillsJul 21 20:23
Diablo-D3you cant win against microsoft that wayJul 21 20:23
schestowitzThey will be valuable in time to come...Jul 21 20:23
_Goblin_Firefox is.Jul 21 20:23
Diablo-D3firefox doesnt really give a shit about windows, to be fairJul 21 20:24
_Goblin_I can't remember any ff advocates shouting about the browser..Jul 21 20:24
_Goblin_it gained popularity because its better than IEJul 21 20:24
schestowitzLots of mass-replacing of gear and software.. unemployed MCSEs...Jul 21 20:24
Diablo-D3_Goblin_: noJul 21 20:24
Diablo-D3it gained popularity because it was firstJul 21 20:24
schestowitzWhat is an MCSE in an industry without hamburgers..?Jul 21 20:24
Diablo-D3netscape had a browser firstJul 21 20:24
_Goblin_what, in the face of a prebundled IE on a mainstream OS?Jul 21 20:24
Diablo-D3firefox is a descendant of that browser.Jul 21 20:25
_Goblin_when that happened FF should have been wiped out.Jul 21 20:25
_Goblin_it wasnt because its better.Jul 21 20:25
Diablo-D3also, msie is actually quite buggyJul 21 20:25
Diablo-D3most people arent using it anymore because a lot of sites dont work right in itJul 21 20:25
_Goblin_instead of "attack" it should be "highlight"Jul 21 20:25
Diablo-D3msie was never popularJul 21 20:26
_Goblin_if FOSS is doing something better highlight it.Jul 21 20:26
Diablo-D3even the stats people like to tout saying msie was, they're largely fakedJul 21 20:26
schestowitz_Goblin_: Diablo-D3 lied about us, saying we DDOSed ourselves !!\Jul 21 20:26
MinceRi remember thatJul 21 20:26
Diablo-D3its easy for microsoft to start hitting lots of popular sites running public surveys on browser usageJul 21 20:26
schestowitzAnd used the F* word IIRC to celebrate the attacksJul 21 20:26
_Goblin_Ah....I must admit I didn't like the way he was claiming to be a l33t linux user a few days ago.Jul 21 20:26
_Goblin_I remember being sarcastic to him...Jul 21 20:27
Diablo-D3schestowitz: let it go already, the article was never that badJul 21 20:27
MinceRactually it wasJul 21 20:27
schestowitzI'd be careful with those here who pretend to be friends.Jul 21 20:27
_Goblin_I must be a good judge of IRC character.Jul 21 20:27
Diablo-D3_Goblin_: I havent been a "l33t" linux user for over a decadeJul 21 20:27
Diablo-D3schestowitz: you should, however, take my adviceJul 21 20:27
schestowitzThe news is bloody boring todayJul 21 20:27
schestowitzThere's NOTHINGof substance.. not even for Apple/MSJul 21 20:28
_Goblin_yep...Jul 21 20:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: your site looks like something that'd be for 9/11 truthersJul 21 20:28
schestowitzI should do more COmesJul 21 20:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: build a new one.Jul 21 20:28
schestowitzDiablo-D3: no, that's oursJul 21 20:28
schestowitzoursJul 21 20:28
_Goblin_I'm going to watch National lampoons Animal House.Jul 21 20:28 has some polical content in the blogJul 21 20:28
_Goblin_damn funny film.Jul 21 20:28
schestowitzI became more interested in politics recentlyJul 21 20:28
Diablo-D3schestowitz: no, I mean bn'sJul 21 20:28
_Goblin_just got to wait for the kids to go to bed....not suitable and all that.Jul 21 20:28
schestowitzIt was all about tech and personal stuff (including esearch) beforeJul 21 20:28
schestowitzMary Jo pretends it's all fine and dandy with Microsoft code: Microsoft's Linux code release: Not all fear and loathing in Linux land 21 20:34
schestowitzShe should read GroklawJul 21 20:34
schestowitz_Goblin_: in your new twitter avatar you look like a cowboyJul 21 20:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz "BN a Trojan site!!" it's like n.koreans being told s.korean magazines will poison them if they touch themJul 21 20:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] f playing catch with a, throwing ragdoll. she just caught the dolly, reliably! and she's learning to throw properly too!Jul 21 20:38
schestowitzWow. Major news... 21 20:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Trojan' for truth, @davidgerardJul 21 20:39
*sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 20:39
sebsebsebhiJul 21 20:39
schestowitzHi there.Jul 21 20:41
schestowitzIP masked, good.Jul 21 20:41
schestowitzI had to rub it off manually this morning.Jul 21 20:41
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah I saw you had done  to the other one toJul 21 20:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] and now freda's catching and throwing a blowup cbeebies blob ball reliably! my daughter, her every trivial developmental step is fascinatingJul 21 20:42
sebsebsebschestowitz: well I used IRC for ages with it showing,   but in public logs hmmJul 21 20:42
sebsebsebschestowitz: anyway fun to have a cloakJul 21 20:43
Diablo-D3[04:01:08] <schestowitz> I had to rub it off manually this morning.Jul 21 20:43
Diablo-D3see, its stuff like that that lets microsoft quote you out of context to make you look badJul 21 20:44
MinceRthen we'll have to quote them letter by letter, each out of context... oh wait, we don't need toJul 21 20:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] more chairs break, @_goblin 21 20:46
schestowitzDiablo-D3: you can quote me out of context on many thingsJul 21 20:46
schestowitzI can do that to Microsoft employees tooJul 21 20:46
schestowitzIt doesn't make it correctJul 21 20:46
schestowitzI rubbed off an IP to protect privacy, that's allJul 21 20:47
Diablo-D3it makes it funny as hell, thoughJul 21 20:47
_Goblin_Diablo-D3: I think its comments like yours about "attacking" Microsoft that make people quote this chat room.Jul 21 20:47
_Goblin_I dont think anyone would be here if we didnt have an honest held belief that FOSS/Linux was the better platform.Jul 21 20:47
schestowitzIt's IRCJul 21 20:47
schestowitzNot a formal letterJul 21 20:47
_Goblin_I just wish we would get a Windows user here with an honest held belief who would discuss sensibly.Jul 21 20:48
_Goblin_they seem few and far between sadly.Jul 21 20:48
sebsebseb_Goblin_: there's a channel for them on this networkJul 21 20:49
Diablo-D3_Goblin_: let them quote itJul 21 20:49
schestowitz 21 20:49
schestowitzWhy does LT link to it? Not about Linux but a Linux blogJul 21 20:49
schestowitzIt's miserable when they quote from IRCJul 21 20:50
schestowitzIt's is more miserable when they quote chats/newsgroups or commentsJul 21 20:50
sebsebsebschestowitz: anyway thanks regarding hostname thingJul 21 20:50
schestowitzAnd it's far worse then they quote ANY arbitrary person/trollJul 21 20:50
schestowitzTo claim, for example, that Boycott Novell "calls for the death of Microsoft employees"Jul 21 20:51
schestowitzBased on troll commentsJul 21 20:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Finally back in my apartment. Will return to my Brother's tomorrow. Caught in a flame war with a nut-case called Jon W(r)ong :-(Jul 21 20:51
schestowitzTheir new spiel is that BN is sexistJul 21 20:51
schestowitzWhy?Jul 21 20:51
schestowitzCause some arbitrary people in IRC made some sexist remarks at some stageJul 21 20:51
schestowitzHehe. Jonathan Wrong from Microsoft.Jul 21 20:52
*maco (n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw) has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 20:52
macodesu: women are retarded at computers, huh?Jul 21 20:53
schestowitzI'm quote in Chinese news.. 21 20:53
schestowitz*quotedJul 21 20:53
schestowitz东莞市Jul 21 20:53
sebsebsebmaco: hi  maco,  maybe you seen me on  IRC beforeJul 21 20:54
_Goblin_I wonder if Mr Wong will respond to me?Jul 21 20:54
desumaco: not all. but most are.Jul 21 20:54
_Goblin_desu: I wouldnt let my wife hear you say that....Jul 21 20:54
schestowitz"What kind of state arrests people for what they read? A tyrannical one." 21 20:54
schestowitz_Goblin_: Wrong shots himself in the footJul 21 20:55
macoi can think of a few thousand competent sysadmins and developers in linuxchix, devchix, codechix, ubuntu-women, debian-women, and well...then there are the women like Valerie Aurora (aka Val Henson) and me, with our names in the kernel changelog...Jul 21 20:55
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I have a copy of communication revolution sitting on my deskJul 21 20:55
schestowitzhe's raising awareness of MS TEs who trot blogsJul 21 20:55
_Goblin_schestowitz: ?Jul 21 20:55
Diablo-D3schestowitz: why do I never get arrested :<Jul 21 20:55
schestowitzThat ought to make them more visible and AstroTurfing knownJul 21 20:55
desumaco: i never said ALL are retarded...Jul 21 20:55
_Goblin_ahJul 21 20:55
schestowitzIn a way, it's more negative publicity for themJul 21 20:55
MinceRi'm reading byfield's sexism rant nowJul 21 20:55
_Goblin_sorry....I will try in keep up...Jul 21 20:55
MinceRit's... sad.Jul 21 20:56
_Goblin_*toJul 21 20:56
schestowitzI have a complaint filed with the FTC about itJul 21 20:56
sebsebsebmaco: oh you have contributed to the Linux kernel?Jul 21 20:56
macodesu: i'd contend that there's not a difference in computer literacy between men and women. most of each are incompetent outside their narrow fieldJul 21 20:56
_Goblin_I have a bundle for them...Its my list of "gifters" who never declared.Jul 21 20:56
macosebsebseb: yes, fixed my sound driverJul 21 20:56
MinceRhe tries to disguise the fact that his argument has no legs by jumping right into the rant and quoting the text he's ranting about only on the second page.Jul 21 20:56
_Goblin_I kept their names off my blog...Jul 21 20:56
schestowitz_Goblin_: any we don't know about?Jul 21 20:56
_Goblin_yepJul 21 20:57
schestowitzIt's easy to miss those who didn't blogJul 21 20:57
sebsebsebmaco: by contributing to the actsaul  kernel code?Jul 21 20:57
_Goblin_I have over 30Jul 21 20:57
schestowitzThanks, I'll keep  an eye on openbytesJul 21 20:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Who is that guy on your current avatar?Jul 21 20:57
macosebsebseb: alsa is part of the kernel, yesJul 21 20:57
_Goblin_from various proprietary firms.Jul 21 20:57
MinceRit makes me wonder why anyone even read byfield before.Jul 21 20:57
sebsebsebmaco: oh  right coolJul 21 20:57
Diablo-D3schestowitz: read privmsgJul 21 20:58
sebsebsebmaco has a point though,   people  aren't  good at everything when it comes to a computer,  as a result certain aspects  they really won't be good at thatJul 21 20:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Just saw your twit on #BN! - Its me!Jul 21 20:58
desumaco: from what i've seen around me, most of the computing industry is composed up of men... i only have ~15% female teachers at my university...Jul 21 20:58
MinceRbyfield's rant is just like this: 21 20:58
sebsebsebsadly it's true that  when it comes to  more technical   computer stuff, things are rather male dominatedJul 21 20:59
desuno offense, there may be many women who're much better than most men at computing, but when you're counting numbers, women are outdone by menJul 21 20:59
schestowitz_Goblin_: cowboy in England ::pJul 21 20:59
_Goblin_more....outlaw...Jul 21 20:59
macosome people can code up a storm but get confused as all hell if you give them a graphical app and tell them to use it. some are the other way around.Jul 21 21:00
schestowitzAh..Jul 21 21:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Do you think there is a relationship between Linux and goatee beards? :)Jul 21 21:00
*schestowitz has no goateeJul 21 21:00
schestowitzIf I grow one, it's blondJul 21 21:00
sebsebsebmaco: true some people don't like GUIJul 21 21:00
_Goblin_maybe its slackware and goatees then. ;)Jul 21 21:01
macooh and Muttley, "are they hot?" is not the correct response to Debian Women being mentionedJul 21 21:01
_Goblin_At least when I visit manchester roy, you will have a frame of reference if we meet up for a drink!Jul 21 21:01
_Goblin_I wont wear the hat though...I promise.Jul 21 21:02
macoare you looking at somethng as narrow as 'hackers' or something broader? it probably approaches 50% when you include digital animators, graphic designers, testers, sysadmins, etcJul 21 21:02
*ml2mst (n=marti@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 21:02
schestowitzHeyJul 21 21:03
schestowitz_Goblin_: sure.Jul 21 21:03
ml2mst_goblin_: fun :-)Jul 21 21:03
_Goblin_Or if youre down London can pop in...the wifes a great cook!Jul 21 21:04
_Goblin_For the MS faithful: That was not sexist, she actually is...she used to be a chef...Jul 21 21:04
*cj ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 21:04
cjschestowitz: have you signed up yet? 21 21:04
sebsebsebcj: heh I am still not an ubuntuforms member, after  all this time, as in using it since second release in 2005Jul 21 21:05
sebsebsebor did I do some old account that I forgot about,  don't think soJul 21 21:05
fewasebsebseb, you get debian now?Jul 21 21:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: my twit on #BN? that's interesting. A new feature?Jul 21 21:06
sebsebsebfewa: nope,  plus  I get the impression with Debian it's all about stability, rather than the greatest stuffJul 21 21:06
fewasebsebseb, debian has both, and debian stable is more up to date than both hardy and intrepidJul 21 21:06
schestowitzThanks for the smears, cj , why are you here?Jul 21 21:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: logged on to #BN on my Fedora Box (KDE/Konversation) ;-)Jul 21 21:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Yeah its a feature where all of BN contacts on Twitter are broadcast into the channel. Its a nice feature.Jul 21 21:07
sebsebsebfewa: Jauntey Jackalope is  currently the latest releaseJul 21 21:07
fewasebsebseb, Debian sid is always more up to date than ubuntu as ubuntu simply copies from debian wholesale, without doing any debuggingJul 21 21:07
macos/e//Jul 21 21:07
sebsebsebfewa: yep I heard that,   they pretty much use the Debian repo,  with some changes to it of courseJul 21 21:07
macokarmic's frozen for alpha 3Jul 21 21:07
fewasebsebseb, Debian stable is more up to date than Jaunty on all but the most core thingsJul 21 21:07
fewasuch as the linux kernelJul 21 21:08
fewasebsebseb, and Debian testing is always more up to date than UbuntuJul 21 21:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: yes I guess there is a relationship between Linux and Goatees :-)Jul 21 21:08
macostable? really? ubuntu syncs from sidJul 21 21:08
Diablo-D3theres a relation between microsft and goatse.cxJul 21 21:08
*Diablo-D3 coughsJul 21 21:08
macognome and kde get packaged directly, before they even hit debianJul 21 21:08
fewamaco, but Ubuntu freezes for months before the releaseJul 21 21:08
fewaand stops syncingJul 21 21:08
schestowitzIranian consumers boycott Nokia for 'collaboration'  < >Jul 21 21:09
macodebian import freeze is after 2 months i thinkJul 21 21:09
sebsebsebmaco: when's alpha 3 coming out?Jul 21 21:09
fewamaco, Canonical only has 1 person working on all of KDEJul 21 21:09
macofeature freeze is 11 weeks before release, i believeJul 21 21:09
macofewa: yes, i know, that's RiddellJul 21 21:09
sebsebsebfewa: you mean the KDE  3 version don't you?Jul 21 21:09
macosebsebseb: next week i guessJul 21 21:09
fewasebsebseb, testing has KDE 4Jul 21 21:09
macosebsebseb: there is no kde3 version of kubuntu anymoreJul 21 21:09
fewasebsebseb, and KDE 4 in ubuntu is _really_ buggyJul 21 21:09
sebsebsebmaco: the ISO is still thereJul 21 21:09
sebsebsebmaco: there's a remixJul 21 21:10
macothats 8.04Jul 21 21:10
macoooooh the remixJul 21 21:10
macothats not a canonical thing at allJul 21 21:10
sebsebsebmaco: I read it's semi officalJul 21 21:10
sebsebsebfewa: yeah I don't like KDE 4 at all,  except for some of those apps that I will run in Gnome anywayJul 21 21:11
*sebsebseb Long live KDE 3!Jul 21 21:11
sebsebsebnewer is not always better, which  is shown  by that KDE 4 thing,  when you look at it overall, and compare it to KDE 3Jul 21 21:12
macosebsebseb: well remix means its got all official packages, just not necessarily main onesJul 21 21:12
macohahah i haaaaaaaaaaaaate kde3Jul 21 21:12
sebsebsebI  hate something about Ubuntu 9.04Jul 21 21:12
sebsebsebhate it so muchJul 21 21:12
macoit always made me run back to gnome. the configuration dialogs were just brain overload.  kde4's so much more usable. and plasma's prettyJul 21 21:13
sebsebsebyeah the  no shutdown and  logout in system menu,  because of their edited version of fusaJul 21 21:13
sebsebseband only way to get it back in the menu, is if remove fusa, so if want both features hmmJul 21 21:13
macothats because duplicating things like that tends to cause confusionJul 21 21:13
sebsebsebit's annoying when they remove a feature which I have been using since the second releaseJul 21 21:13
ml2mstMatter of personal preference, I LOVE KDE4 ;-)Jul 21 21:14
sebsebsebmaco: well the upstream  Gnome version of fusa, is just an account switcher,  with shut down and logout still being in the system menuJul 21 21:14
fewasebsebseb, but Ubuntu's lousey packaging of KDE4 shouldn't be your deciding factorJul 21 21:14
macoubuntu does that differently because well....why the hell should log-out-and-switch and log-out be separate?Jul 21 21:15
sebsebsebmaco: well in that case,  it should all be in the system menu :)Jul 21 21:15
macothe system menu would get huge if that was the case :PJul 21 21:15
macothe system menu needs to shrink. dramatically.Jul 21 21:16
macothe preferences menu is HUGEJul 21 21:16
macodoesnt even fit on 1280x800Jul 21 21:16
fewaif the ubuntu account switcher code is clean i think it should be merged upsteamJul 21 21:16
fewabut i doubt Canonical has submitted itJul 21 21:16
sebsebsebnow basically what they done is,  made  shut down and logging  out into this  fancy feature,  with the icon,   that they  are also using for Pidgin status.   what has Pidgin  got to do with  switching users or logging out or shutting down?  nothingJul 21 21:16
fewasebsebseb, exactlyJul 21 21:16
_Goblin_hooray.........a retraction of sorts from Mr Wong:Jul 21 21:17
_Goblin_"I didn't realize that is not a "Linux community". In fact, upon a second visit to the site, I realize that is is far from being representative of the Linux community. I have updated my blog entry to reflect this fact."Jul 21 21:17
_Goblin_just been posted on my blog.Jul 21 21:17
sebsebsebfewa: apparantly    Ubuntu's fusa  was  done by professinoal designers,  to me it's  this noob feature thing,   well Ubuntu is getting most the Linux newbiesJul 21 21:17
sebsebsebfewa: and they won't know what is and what isn't in upstream  GnomeJul 21 21:18
macosebsebseb: sure it doesJul 21 21:18
macosee when you log out, you are going awayJul 21 21:18
macoits about presenceJul 21 21:18
sebsebsebyep, but I should really be able to have both features like 8.10,  that's  fusa, and in the system menu :)Jul 21 21:18
*conley has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 21:18
macoi *think* pidgin is set to away when you switch userJul 21 21:18
fewasebsebseb, and Canonical has no hesitation to monkey patch their own stuff without any discussion from the maintainers of those systemsJul 21 21:19
macoi think upstream ignored the patchJul 21 21:19
macoive been having a hard time getting simple little string change patches into kdeJul 21 21:20
fewahmm theylaunched the glitorious siteJul 21 21:20
macogitoriousJul 21 21:20
fewawhich looked like a big step to opening up developmentJul 21 21:20
macoas in "git"Jul 21 21:20
*conley ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 21:20
macoi thought only amarok had moved over so farJul 21 21:20
fewaand they contributed alot of patches and improvements to gitoriousJul 21 21:20
fewaand qt right?Jul 21 21:21
macono idea. i dont have much upstream involvementJul 21 21:22
sebsebsebfewa: I have tried some other distros that used  KDE 4 in vm,   all looked  pretty much the same to me,  don't take long and I am off itJul 21 21:22
*conley is now known as beardJul 21 21:23
*beard is now known as conleyJul 21 21:23
sebsebsebfewa: if you had  said    this  "sebsebseb, but Ubuntu's lousey packaging of KDE4 shouldn't be your deciding factor"   about  XFCE,  I  would be so agreeing with you now,  because  I have tried other distros  in  VM that used XFCE,  and their default set ups were so  better than  XubuntuJul 21 21:24
fewai havnt really used xfceJul 21 21:24
fewai use lxdeJul 21 21:24
fewafor low-memJul 21 21:24
*sebsebseb wants a distro that comes with loads of good stuff by default, so packages, to themes and desktop backgrounds and even screensaversJul 21 21:24
desusebsebseb: you can make one :PJul 21 21:24
sebsebsebdesu: I think vectorlinux is the cloest  I found so farJul 21 21:25
fewasebsebseb, why fill it up with endless bloat by default when it only takes a few commands to add what you want?Jul 21 21:25
sebsebsebdesu: the older Live CD I tried in vm, I was like wow.   I coudn't get the later one installed in vm and working properly since something to do with xorg and graphics driver,   I want to try it as hostJul 21 21:25
desuo..Jul 21 21:25
sebsebsebdesu: some people were like to me, oh it's bad, since  you get Open Office and Gimp on the delux CD,  then I talk to someone in here about it last night,   and he made it sound good as well.    I  can compile/install my own Open Office and Gimp in there, but nahJul 21 21:26
fewasebsebseb, 21 21:26
sebsebsebone of there versions is  KDE 4 hmm, but the other is using some window manager that looks nice by the screenshotJul 21 21:26
fewa^^^^^^^^^Jul 21 21:26
desuo...Jul 21 21:27
*desu will try out vector linux soonJul 21 21:27
sebsebsebso  I may end up using VectorLinux  as host for now, when I sort my computer out again,   or do  Debian maybe,   or  put on that  KDE  3  remix  CD as host OS :)   Long live KDE 3!Jul 21 21:27
fewabest KDE 3.5 would probably be debian lennyJul 21 21:28
desuo.OJul 21 21:28
desukde3?Jul 21 21:28
fewadesu, sebsebseb doesnt have any idea what he is talking aboutJul 21 21:28
sebsebsebfewa: oh I seen some nice KDE 3 in PCLinuxOS and stuff in vm, sadly  they  aren't  up to date enough at the moment with a 2009 versionJul 21 21:28
desufewa: apparently soJul 21 21:28
desusebsebseb is a bot!Jul 21 21:28
sebsebsebsomeone dosn't know what I am talking about?Jul 21 21:29
sebsebsebor the other guy?Jul 21 21:29
sebsebsebschestowitz am I a bot?Jul 21 21:29
desuD:Jul 21 21:29
desuyay, i managed to convince sebsebseb that he's a bot ^_^Jul 21 21:29
sebsebsebnot quite :)Jul 21 21:30
desuat least made him doubt his existence :/Jul 21 21:30
schestowitz"Strange. ODF still not viewable in BB v5.0.0.90. Any settings to tweak?" 21 21:30
*fewa desu rulesJul 21 21:30
sebsebsebmaybe  it's true  The MatrixJul 21 21:30
desu=3=Jul 21 21:30
*schestowitz becomes ELIZAJul 21 21:30
sebsebsebmaybe the machines are controlling us and  things are like The MatrixJul 21 21:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: same old sh1t from W(r)ong :-pJul 21 21:31
desuD:Jul 21 21:31
desu...what have i started....Jul 21 21:31
sebsebsebhehJul 21 21:34
schestowitz_Hitcham_ will be delighted that "Miggy" comes for a visit.. 21 21:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Before sending a server to a customer, do your research. 21 21:39
ml2mstOh dear I am a IRC virgin, can anyone see what I write?Jul 21 21:43
desunopeJul 21 21:44
ml2mstRoy requested to use a IRC client. I am using Konversation now ;-)Jul 21 21:44
ml2mstNope?Jul 21 21:44
ml2mstLOL :-)Jul 21 21:44
desunope ;/Jul 21 21:44
desu*:/Jul 21 21:44
desulolJul 21 21:44
ml2mstAh, not as difficult as I expected :-DJul 21 21:45
desuyes :PJul 21 21:46
ml2mstdesu: thanks!Jul 21 21:49
desuno probs :PJul 21 21:50
macodesu: by the way, i recommend looking up Ada Lovelace Day postsJul 21 21:52
macoa ton of women were profiled for ALDJul 21 21:52
ml2mst_Goblin_: still here?Jul 21 21:53
ml2mst_Goblin_: Jon W(r)ong proved to be an idiot.Jul 21 21:54
ml2mst_Goblin_: personal attacks, slander and gossip can't hardly be called "professional".Jul 21 21:55
desumaco: i'm sorry if i offended you... i do agree that there are many women who're better at computers than most men.... most of the comments i made that day were only to troll a troll that was trying to troll this channel, and should not be taken seriously...Jul 21 21:55
macopssst apologies aren't supposed to be followed by "if"Jul 21 21:56
fewamaco, ?Jul 21 21:57
macoi just don't think saying "women are retarded at computers" is going to encourage any women reading those logs to say "hmm...maybe i CAN contribute"Jul 21 21:57
fewamaco, now your trollingJul 21 21:57
macoits not as if they're non-public logsJul 21 21:57
schestowitzml2mst: friends from Microsoft are there in his comments tooJul 21 21:57
schestowitzHe posted this in COLA to have the Microsoft trolls join the discussionJul 21 21:58
schestowitzFriendly (crowd) to himJul 21 21:58
fewamaco, its not as if there are endless amounts of public logs out there that nobody readsJul 21 21:58
trmancoml2mst, wow, you're here :-PJul 21 21:58
Balrog...?Jul 21 21:58
macofewa: no, im just telling him that apologies, when properly done, do not include "if". "i'm sorry *if*..." says "i'm not sorry, but if you want me to pretend..."Jul 21 21:58
schestowitzcj  (from here in IRC) added to his smears with his own smear jobJul 21 21:58
schestowitzHe worked for Microsoft at the timeJul 21 21:58
fewamaco, the if is a standard way of apoligzying--apparently you dont know englishJul 21 21:59
ml2msttrmanco: great to see you too :-)Jul 21 21:59
macofewa: no it is notJul 21 21:59
desumaco: okay, i'll try it again...Jul 21 21:59
fewacause if you apologize when none is wanted than you are an idiotJul 21 21:59
maco"i'm sorry *that* what i said was offensive" is the proper wayJul 21 21:59
*ugufjhfj ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 21:59
_Goblin_just responded to Mr Wong on my be fair, he took the time to post.Jul 21 21:59
trmancomaco, the lady g33k?Jul 21 21:59
fewamaco, and anything that needs to be apologized for requires that person be offendedJul 21 21:59
Balrogwell if it's obvious that what was said is offensive that is the proper wayJul 21 21:59
desui apologise to all those women who were offended by my comments. it wasn't meant to be taken seriouslyJul 21 21:59
macoalso not the way to do it "i'm sorry you took offense"Jul 21 21:59
desumaco: better now?Jul 21 22:00
macotrmanco: ayeJul 21 22:00
ml2mstIndeed Roy requested to use a real IRC client (not the chainserver web thingy) I installed Fedora 10/KDE4 so here I am ;-)Jul 21 22:00
macodesu: yes, thank youJul 21 22:00
trmancowowJul 21 22:00
fewamaco, so now you are just trying to get somebody to kiss your assJul 21 22:00
fewamaco, which he handsomely didJul 21 22:00
_Goblin_have I missed something?Jul 21 22:00
macofewa: no, i'm waving about the cluebat ;)Jul 21 22:00
desu-.-Jul 21 22:00
Balrogwhat's going on in here...?Jul 21 22:00
*desu slaps fewaJul 21 22:00
ml2mst_Goblin_: No, but we have missed you ;-)Jul 21 22:00
*fewa slaps desu with a large troutJul 21 22:01
desuthe truth is obvious enough already, stop stating it again ¬_¬Jul 21 22:01
_Goblin_Balrog: I was just thinking the same thing.Jul 21 22:01
desuthough i had no idea anybody ever read those logs ¬_¬Jul 21 22:01
desuall 9001 lines of it ¬_¬Jul 21 22:01
BalrogI'm sure the trolls do...Jul 21 22:01
_Goblin_Im off for a smoke...things might be clearer when I return.Jul 21 22:02
fewaBalrog, then they would be intelligent, which they are notJul 21 22:02
Balrogwell the smarter onesJul 21 22:02
macoBalrog: excerpts were posted in a comment on one of the postsJul 21 22:02
Balrogbeing smart is different from being intelligent :)Jul 21 22:02
macothat's how i saw themJul 21 22:02
maco 21 22:02
desumaco: link please?Jul 21 22:02
Balrogahh. I see.Jul 21 22:02
desunvm..Jul 21 22:02
Balrogisn't zatoichi a troll? Or am I wrong?Jul 21 22:04
Balrog(anyway, I dislike the use of "the Ukraine" ... "the" shouldn't be there)Jul 21 22:05
fewameh i guess those things were a little of colourJul 21 22:05
desumaco: those comments are taken out of contextJul 21 22:05
macodesu: there's a link to the full context. i was reading the chunk where that stuff comes inJul 21 22:06
schestowitzShields leave KDE ... 21 22:07
macooh god ittoolboxJul 21 22:08
schestowitzBalrog: thanks, you told meJul 21 22:08
macoanyone ever figure out how the hell to delete an account on that stupid site?Jul 21 22:08
macoer...kde's not a window manager, sillyJul 21 22:09
schestowitz<Balrog> it's ok, many people make that mistake :)Jul 21 22:09
schestowitz^Which ain't helping !Jul 21 22:09
schestowitz:-)Jul 21 22:09
schestowitzThat's how I hear the country referred toiJul 21 22:09
fewayep, people who dont get it: that you can even use kwin in GNOME, etcJul 21 22:09
schestowitzit TOOL boxJul 21 22:09
schestowitz;-)Jul 21 22:09
schestowitzBSD's diva blogs thereJul 21 22:10
schestowitzThey have decent blogsJul 21 22:10
macofewa: i assume he's mixing up "desktop environment" or "session" and "window manager"Jul 21 22:11
macothat i use xmonad in kde would surely confuse himJul 21 22:11
ml2mstSchestowitz: I've seen W(r)ong's "contribution" in COLA and responded to his garbage.Jul 21 22:11
fewamaco, he should try awesome wm :PJul 21 22:12
ml2mstSchestowitz: IIRC you linked to one of the idiot's posts before.Jul 21 22:12
ml2mstSchestowitz: the man is insane and can not me taken serious.Jul 21 22:12
macofewa: thats what my bf usesJul 21 22:13
schestowitzJason from mono-non bought a Dell: 21 22:13
macoer he's trying kwin to see what vanilla kde is like. he says kwin, metacity, compiz, xmonad, awesome.... none of them work how he wants by defaultJul 21 22:13
MinceRpoor guy.Jul 21 22:13
schestowitzHey, maco Jul 21 22:13
schestowitzDidn't get to chance to say "hi"Jul 21 22:14
MinceRdude, i got a big, shiny turd.Jul 21 22:14
macohelloJul 21 22:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst I think it highlights why posts must be challenged,it doesnt matter if it was intentional or not Linsux(IMO) does not speak for FOSSJul 21 22:14
schestowitzMinceR: no preceding "i"/Jul 21 22:14
MinceRwell, it's a dellJul 21 22:14
MinceR(see also: dell logo with s/d/h/)Jul 21 22:15
schestowitzSell Computers?Jul 21 22:15
schestowitzDoesn't sound so negative.Jul 21 22:15
*pk_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 22:15
schestowitzMinceR: Dell was among the first to support usJul 21 22:15
schestowitzAmong the major OEMsJul 21 22:15
MinceRand they're against us nowJul 21 22:16
MinceRjust like all the othersJul 21 22:16
schestowitzI wish they had said openly what they did with Microsoft in June 2007, one week before Microsoft attacked Linux formallyJul 21 22:16
schestowitzNot againstJul 21 22:16
MinceRbut my main problem with dell is that their build quality sucks like a black holeJul 21 22:16
schestowitzSelling it is helpingJul 21 22:16
MinceRand that their support sucks tooJul 21 22:16
schestowitzI used Dell in two offices... always workedJul 21 22:16
MinceRschestowitz: paying m$ tax secretly isn't helpingJul 21 22:17
schestowitzb0rked HDDs, but all the rest was fineJul 21 22:17
*neighborlee has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jul 21 22:17
MinceRcharging extra for linux isn't helping eitherJul 21 22:17
schestowitzEven in 2003 when SuSE was a lot more primitive with hw supportJul 21 22:17
macoMinceR: dell charges ~ $50 less for ubuntu than windowsJul 21 22:17
schestowitzDell worked with it out of the boxJul 21 22:17
MinceRmaco: there was an analysis of thatJul 21 22:17
schestowitzMy other Dell box at MCC ran Ubuntu 4.10Jul 21 22:17
macoexcept when they screw up and put a sale on some hardware component on windowsJul 21 22:17
schestowitzmaco: trueJul 21 22:17
fewamaco, but they dont sell machines with Ubuntu realy anymoreJul 21 22:17
MinceRiirc they offered a free ram/whatever upgrade for windows onlyJul 21 22:17
schestowitzSOmetiems the configurator of Dell goes nutsJul 21 22:18
fewamaco, go to dropped desktop, low end laptopJul 21 22:18
MinceRand they've only ever offered 1 laptop with ubuntuJul 21 22:18
MinceRobviously some low-end crapJul 21 22:18
schestowitzAnd then it can show comparable offerings where Linux is the expensive offerJul 21 22:18
MinceRand even that offer was carefully hiddenJul 21 22:18
fewaMinceR, now they have a higher-end oneJul 21 22:18
schestowitzIn servers, Dell messes up the configurator tooJul 21 22:18
MinceRso now they have _two_ ubuntu laptop offers?Jul 21 22:18
schestowitzMinceR: not tureJul 21 22:18
MinceRwow, that's some great supportJul 21 22:18
schestowitz*trueJul 21 22:18
fewaMinceR, they dropped the lower end oneJul 21 22:18
MinceRoh.Jul 21 22:18
schestowitzThey offer sub-notebooksJul 21 22:18
schestowitzAnd they now sell very high-end laptops with UbuntuJul 21 22:19
schestowitzSo at least 2 models IIRC, maybe 3Jul 21 22:19
MinceRat this moment they happen to have such an option?Jul 21 22:19
schestowitzXPS also...Jul 21 22:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: Heh? it's crystal clear that "LINSUX" is 100% ANTI-LINUX. And in case you haven't noticed it. I am a HUGE fan of Openbytes ;-)Jul 21 22:19
MinceRif they really cared, they'd offer it as a choice in the configuratorJul 21 22:19
fewao wait two laptopsJul 21 22:19
MinceRit runs on all their hardware anyway, doesn't it?Jul 21 22:19
schestowitzLinsu*** openly states being anti-LinuxJul 21 22:19
macoMinceR: thats what i mean about having a saleJul 21 22:19
schestowitzThey send some of their chaps here to 'posion' the channelJul 21 22:19
MinceRand then i didn't even mention the "genuine windows" spamJul 21 22:19
MinceRmaco: i seeJul 21 22:19
macowhen dell first released ubuntu computers i made this blog post. 21 22:19
MinceRmaco: well, that shows how much they mean to support usJul 21 22:20
fewaMinceR, that would be a thing, would silence any concerns over tyingJul 21 22:20
schestowitzmaco: they still ignore OOo requestsJul 21 22:20
schestowitz#2 top requestJul 21 22:20
schestowitzIt would send their spouse Microsoft screaming out the roomJul 21 22:20
MinceRstill, the 4 hardware failures in 2 years on my dell laptop convinced me not to buy dell againJul 21 22:20
macoMinceR: about laptops isnt true either. there were 2 laptops, 2 desktops, and a netbook over time. right now there are no desktops because theyre about to release a new line of them and they're just clearing stock on the old modelsJul 21 22:20
schestowitzOffice is a much bigger cash cow than WidnowsJul 21 22:20
*Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.")Jul 21 22:21
fewamaco, and Dell's overview was definitely good, much better than the confusing HP "The Linux command line interface is disabled on this Mini."Jul 21 22:21
fewawtf does that mean?Jul 21 22:21
MinceRafaict all major brands are either against us or just don't care.Jul 21 22:21
MinceR(and in this case, "don't care" means "obediently display the obligatory m$ ads everywhere")Jul 21 22:21
macoMinceR: and it would be *bad* to offer it as a regular choice because a lot of dell's hardware sucks for linux :P dont want people choosing ubuntu because its cheaper and also choosing a non-working webcam. they DO make senseJul 21 22:21
macoitd just be really freaking nice if theyd put ubuntu somewhere VISIBLEJul 21 22:22
MinceRmaco: so at any given time up to 2 of their laptops works with linux? i doubt it.Jul 21 22:22
fewamaco, _Linux_ visibleJul 21 22:22
macoMinceR: they only have like 2 or 3 laptop modelsJul 21 22:22
MinceRthe one i got was never offered with linux, afaik -- yet it worked fully, except for the modem, which i never tried.Jul 21 22:22
macofewa: well they dont offer any other linuxesJul 21 22:22
fewamaco, but its still LinuxJul 21 22:22
macocorrection: for HOME department, they only have two or three modelsJul 21 22:23
*wayne has quit ()Jul 21 22:23
macothey dont offer any of their nice business line stuff with linux :-/Jul 21 22:23
schestowitzmaco: a friend of mine who hangs out hee sometimes... she bought her mom a Dellbuntu because her mom preferred itJul 21 22:23
macofewa: yes, but im saying that since ubuntu is the specific linux they're using, itd be nice if it was visible when you visit rather than having to hunt it downJul 21 22:23
schestowitzThere's a campaign going on to build /perception/ that people would dislike itJul 21 22:23
fewaim sure they have business customers that buy w/ LinuxJul 21 22:23
schestowitzThe 'nightmare stories' (FUD)... to create expectancy and scare Dell tooJul 21 22:24
fewamaco, just trying to prevent the confusion of Linux=Ubuntu, or even "wtf is Linux" for someone who uses ubuntuJul 21 22:24
schestowitzLike that news report where the college student whined over Ubuntu from DellJul 21 22:24
schestowitzwallclimber said she thought it was a fake.. oh, actually it was her daughterJul 21 22:24
macofewa: guess why my blog says "ubuntu linux"?Jul 21 22:24
fewanothing wrong with them only having one vendor to share support contracts, etcJul 21 22:24
schestowitzPerfect plot to get the zealotsJul 21 22:24
schestowitzPerfect plot to get the zealots goingJul 21 22:24
fewaIve read alot of good reviewsJul 21 22:25
thenixedreportBtw Roy.Jul 21 22:25
schestowitzDell said in 2008 that they would serve SMB with GNU/Linux in EuropeJul 21 22:25
macomy mom's ubuntu computer is 7 or 8 years old. my step brother built it for her, and ive been handling hardware add-onsJul 21 22:25
schestowitzI guess it never materialisedJul 21 22:25
fewaon youtube, on the manufactures siteJul 21 22:25
thenixedreportNew WordPress is available.Jul 21 22:26
schestowitzIn the strong Linux markets like France and GermanyJul 21 22:26
macoSMB?Jul 21 22:26
thenixedreportIt said to notify the administrator.Jul 21 22:26
thenixedreport;)Jul 21 22:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin: I think you are doing a great yob, by exposing those idiotic trolls. Please never give up. I LOVE openbytes!Jul 21 22:26
schestowitzthenixedreport: yes, I need to sort out the auto-upgrade thing. ping tessier_ Jul 21 22:26
Diablo-D3hey guysJul 21 22:26
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 22:26
fewaschestowitz, samba?Jul 21 22:26
Diablo-D3whats the best anti-microsoft blog post that isnt bn'sJul 21 22:26
schestowitzfewa: no, WOrdPressJul 21 22:26
schestowitzOn two servers where I have blogs it runs smoothlyJul 21 22:27
schestowitzThe BN server won't doJul 21 22:27
fewa<schestowitz> Dell said in 2008 that they would serve SMB with GNU/Linux in EuropeJul 21 22:27
schestowitzI can find itJul 21 22:27
schestowitzI think I can find itJul 21 22:27
fewamaco and I dont know what you are sayingJul 21 22:27
schestowitzThe Microsoft analysts spread FUD about it laterJul 21 22:27
schestowitzIDC or ForresterJul 21 22:27
schestowitzCan't recall whichJul 21 22:28
thenixedreportI had to do a minor tweak so the auto upgrade would work with my hosting provider.Jul 21 22:28
fewaDell had a ad for Mini + Ubuntu Linux that hit the spot perfectlyJul 21 22:28
thenixedreportMainly a text file setting the PHP version to the latest.Jul 21 22:28
fewaif only they would run itJul 21 22:28
schestowitzDiablo-D3: it's not anti-MicrosoftJul 21 22:28
schestowitzIt's critical of MicrosoftJul 21 22:28
schestowitzBased on deedsJul 21 22:28
Diablo-D3you know what I meanJul 21 22:28
tessier_schestowitz: HiJul 21 22:28
Diablo-D3I need something that isnt bn so I can link to itJul 21 22:28
schestowitzThe policement is "anti-criminal"?Jul 21 22:28
schestowitz*menJul 21 22:28
macofewa: at first they listed the ubuntu mini next to the windows ones. now they dont :(Jul 21 22:28
fewamaco, they were pressured by MicrosoftJul 21 22:29
schestowitz[or policewoman]Jul 21 22:29
fewamaco, like how Asus obviously did a back-room dealJul 21 22:29
macoyou have to go to or to find ubuntu stuff now. itd be nice if the "laptops" page had both visibleJul 21 22:29
schestowitztessier_: maybe we can look into autoupgrade again?Jul 21 22:29
schestowitzIt worked on two other servers where I run WordPressJul 21 22:29
schestowitzI think it's down to server settings somewhereJul 21 22:29
macoi just buy from companies that don't sell windows at allJul 21 22:29
fewaI just put it together myselfJul 21 22:30
schestowitzI read these WordPress forums threads with suggestionsJul 21 22:30
fewabuy hardwareJul 21 22:30
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btw, you _do_ use supercache, right?Jul 21 22:30
thenixedreportSpeaking of hardware.Jul 21 22:30
fewaits alot cheaper that wayJul 21 22:30
schestowitzDiablo-D3: no wp-cacheJul 21 22:30
thenixedreportAnyone know where I can get a cheap notebook with ATI graphics?Jul 21 22:30
Diablo-D3wp-cache sucksJul 21 22:30
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 22:30
Diablo-D3hereJul 21 22:30
schestowitzI have supercacheJul 21 22:30
schestowitzJust not enabledJul 21 22:30
Diablo-D3use itJul 21 22:30
Diablo-D3on fully on modeJul 21 22:30
Diablo-D3wp-cache is a posJul 21 22:30
schestowitz"Super' scares meJul 21 22:30
macofewa: im of the opinion that buying it with linux is slightly better because then its one more OEM sale without windows to counteract the marketshare calculations. buying parts can just be construed as upgrading a windows machineJul 21 22:31
schestowitzSounds prone to flakinessJul 21 22:31
Diablo-D3schestowitz: my blog gets more hits than youJul 21 22:31
Diablo-D3trust me when I say use it.Jul 21 22:31
Diablo-D3I would have never survived being slashdotted with outJul 21 22:31
*ml2mst is taking a shower BRBJul 21 22:31
fewamaco, tying is illegal. also there is 21 22:32
thenixedreportIf I get ./ed, I'd have to upgrade hosting providers.Jul 21 22:32
thenixedreport:)Jul 21 22:32
fewaand market share in sale is irrelevent, its network effects and moneyJul 21 22:32
schestowitzI keep getting these messages with Microsoft-hostile zealotsJul 21 22:32
_Goblin_"my blog gets more hits than youJul 21 22:33
schestowitzI don't know how to get rid of itJul 21 22:33
schestowitzBlunt ones...Jul 21 22:33
_Goblin_lolJul 21 22:33
trmancowong is here?Jul 21 22:33
fewabuying a comp with Windows incures a Windows tax to MicrosoftJul 21 22:33
schestowitzLater on they get us in troubleJul 21 22:33
_Goblin_whats your site Diablo?Jul 21 22:33
schestowitzLike that "Fink" idiotJul 21 22:33
Diablo-D3_Goblin_: adterrasperaspera.comJul 21 22:33
schestowitzIt that's a real nameJul 21 22:33
schestowitzSomeone just mails me thisJul 21 22:33
schestowitz"To the point, all public institutions (all universities and mostJul 21 22:33
schestowitzschools) and all agencies have to document travels, especially since perJul 21 22:33
schestowitzdiem is paid.  It would be possible for an investigator to round up aJul 21 22:33
schestowitzlist of *all* MSFT-paid trips made by state employees.  The rats wouldJul 21 22:33
schestowitzbe mostly a subset of that list.Jul 21 22:33
schestowitz-"Jul 21 22:33
trmanco"Before I do that, I would like to ask him: “What on earth is a Microsoft employee doing, hiding in the shadows of an IRC channel in his spare time?“"Jul 21 22:33
trmanco_Goblin_, :>Jul 21 22:33
trmancoyou wrote thatJul 21 22:33
schestowitz"Roy Schestowitz wrote:Jul 21 22:33
schestowitz> > Not sure about "rats"...Jul 21 22:33
schestowitzI would say that a fair number of those that got "free" trips to the USJul 21 22:33
schestowitzpaid for by MSFT turn out to be rats.  Not to disparage rats, though."Jul 21 22:33
macofewa: dont look at the microsoft partJul 21 22:34
macofewa: look at the others who say "we wont make $foo for linux because thats on 0.1% of the marketshare, so we don't care"Jul 21 22:34
trmancoit's not that lowJul 21 22:34
fewaschestowitz, yep, and for example here in washington state a ton of money comes from the gates foundation, which basically dictates how teaching is to be doneJul 21 22:34
schestowitzSame with state and church, I thinkJul 21 22:34
schestowitzI cover this in BNJul 21 22:35
trmancofortunately, there is more than just the USJul 21 22:35
schestowitzThe whole state signs deal with MicrosoftJul 21 22:35
schestowitzOr universitiesJul 21 22:35
schestowitzCurriculum dealsJul 21 22:35
schestowitzMicrosoft bribed professors $200 to mention MicrosoftJul 21 22:35
schestowitzMaybe it still doesJul 21 22:35
Diablo-D3$200 is shit thoughJul 21 22:35
fewamaco, but its simply wrong, lots of ISVs for governments and such produce Linux versions because alot of organizations have deployed Linux. Even Microsoft's number for Linux are much higherJul 21 22:35
Diablo-D3I mean, thats like what, a few ounces of pot?Jul 21 22:35
_Goblin_trmanco: yep...Jul 21 22:36
Diablo-D3thats like a day for an average professorJul 21 22:36
macofewa: so im saying if we consciously buy machines with linux or tell hardware manufacturers "i'm returning this because there's no linux support"--make it *prominent* that linux is our OS--we get a better shot at having them realize we exist, we're a sizable minority (not insignificant) and maybe actually paying attention to us in decision-makingJul 21 22:36
trmancounder what nym?Jul 21 22:36
fewaagreedJul 21 22:36
fewa 21 22:36
_Goblin_pass..Jul 21 22:36
macofewa: yes ive seen.Jul 21 22:36
Diablo-D3maco: this is why I bough ATIJul 21 22:36
Diablo-D3nvidia support is absolute shitJul 21 22:36
desumaco: it still wont work...Jul 21 22:36
desuthat's what's been happening for quite a few yearsJul 21 22:36
macoDiablo-D3: this is why i buy intel. they have FOSS drivers.Jul 21 22:36
Diablo-D3so does AMD.Jul 21 22:36
*schestowitz thinks he should really stop relying to mail from Microsoft hatersJul 21 22:36
Diablo-D3AMD is spending money on getting DRI to support r600/700 better than fglrx doesJul 21 22:37
macoDiablo-D3: only on the old stuffJul 21 22:37
*tessier_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jul 21 22:37
maco-ati is FOSS, but fglrx isn'tJul 21 22:37
Diablo-D3AMD doesnt want to develop drivers, they're not in that business.Jul 21 22:37
maco-ati only supports old hardwreJul 21 22:37
Diablo-D3They recognize we're better at it than anyone elseJul 21 22:37
Diablo-D3maco: fglrx is almost deadJul 21 22:37
Diablo-D3but I bought ATI because fglrx _does_ workJul 21 22:37
Diablo-D3nvidia binary doesnt.Jul 21 22:37
fewaDiablo-D3, its like in IdiocracyJul 21 22:38
fewaDiablo-D3, brought to you by *, get paidJul 21 22:38
Diablo-D3I dont care if a driver is binary if the damned thing actually worksJul 21 22:38
Diablo-D3AMD bought ATI and did what they did, thats just bonus pointsJul 21 22:38
trmanco-ati works wonderfully hereJul 21 22:38
fewaAMD spent money developing for x86-64Jul 21 22:38
Diablo-D3Im on r700, btwJul 21 22:38
_Goblin_right off to watch National Lampoons Animal House...Jul 21 22:38
fewaATI is still largely a differnt company, right?Jul 21 22:38
_Goblin_back laterJul 21 22:38
Diablo-D3fewa: noJul 21 22:39
Diablo-D3all the upper management was fired and so was most of the middle mangementJul 21 22:39
fewamerger is completeJul 21 22:39
Diablo-D3all the real employees work for AMDJul 21 22:39
Diablo-D3and the ATI name was taken off the ATI buildingJul 21 22:39 also redirects to amd.comJul 21 22:39
Diablo-D3so yeah, the merger is completeJul 21 22:39
schestowitzThey said they would keep the nameJul 21 22:39
Diablo-D3schestowitz: they didntJul 21 22:39
schestowitzAlmost promised IIRCJul 21 22:40
Diablo-D3radeon 5000 is supposed to be the first amd named chip familyJul 21 22:40
fewagets them above the position of Intel on graphicsJul 21 22:40
schestowitzIntel is unethicalJul 21 22:41
schestowitz"Criminal" even, by definitionJul 21 22:41
Diablo-D3EVERYONE is unethicalJul 21 22:41
macowhy?Jul 21 22:41
schestowitzWhy is the word too strong?Jul 21 22:41
fewathey paid OEMs to not buy AMDJul 21 22:41
macooooh right forgot thatJul 21 22:41
Diablo-D3they paid for that thoughJul 21 22:41
schestowitzmaco: bribes, bullying, destruction of evidence, obstruction of justiceJul 21 22:41
Diablo-D3AMD is winning anyhowJul 21 22:42
schestowitzNot reallyJul 21 22:42
fewavery similar to Microsoft's per-processor sold feesJul 21 22:42
Diablo-D3intel's market share for x86 is decreasingJul 21 22:42
Diablo-D3amd's is increasingJul 21 22:42
schestowitzIt's said to be gaining some shareJul 21 22:42
schestowitzMy old laptop used AMDJul 21 22:42
macothey do still take the cake on FOSS drivers though, whether you look at graphics or wireless, theyve got FOSS drivers for all of itJul 21 22:42
schestowitz400MhzJul 21 22:42
Diablo-D3amd also has basically dominated the graphics marketJul 21 22:42
fewaIntel was forced to clean room engineer amd64Jul 21 22:42
Diablo-D3fewa: yupJul 21 22:43
Diablo-D3which was hillariousJul 21 22:43
schestowitzmaco: true, they also patch Linux a lotJul 21 22:43
Diablo-D3they implemented it incorrectly on early gen shit tooJul 21 22:43
Diablo-D3I don't care about Intel thoughJul 21 22:43
fewabut yes Intel provides alot of patches to the Linux kernelJul 21 22:43
Diablo-D3AMD isn't exactly innocent eitherJul 21 22:43
schestowitzIt's like when a kid's dad is a gangster, but the kid must love him anywayJul 21 22:43
Diablo-D3AMD was formed by former Intel engineers shortly after 8086 came outJul 21 22:43
schestowitzIntel attacked OLPC with LinuxJul 21 22:43
schestowitzWe could use ARMJul 21 22:44
Diablo-D3Intel just makes shit products, they're not really guilty of much thoughJul 21 22:44
macoschestowitz: intel attacked linux with linux, you mean ;)Jul 21 22:44
Diablo-D3schestowitz: arm wasnt ready yetJul 21 22:44
fewaDiablo-D3, AMD also came from IBM insisting that Intel would not be the only producer of x86 chips when IBM choose that ISAJul 21 22:44
schestowitzOn server... Poer BladesJul 21 22:44
Diablo-D3ARM has only recently become usefulJul 21 22:44
schestowitz*PowerJul 21 22:44
Diablo-D3fewa: actually, noJul 21 22:44
schestowitzmaco: no, WindowsJul 21 22:44
schestowitzMandriva was there for goodwillJul 21 22:44
Diablo-D3fewa: the us military basically told intel to stfu because they wanted a second supplierJul 21 22:44
macoschestowitz: huh? olpc was linux...Jul 21 22:44
schestowitzIntel sells hardwareJul 21 22:44
schestowitzIf the hardware runs AMD, Intel attacksJul 21 22:45
Diablo-D3fewa: the courts found in AMD's favor when Intel sued them over this because the US Military told them toJul 21 22:45
fewaI dont like Intel's virtical integrationJul 21 22:45
schestowitzmaco: yes, Intel was anti-OLPCJul 21 22:45
fewavertical*Jul 21 22:45
Diablo-D3I dont blame intel for being anti-olpcJul 21 22:45
macoschestowitz: but you just said they attacked olpc with linuxJul 21 22:45
schestowitzTHey fear cheap computingJul 21 22:45
schestowitzIt would ruin themJul 21 22:45
Diablo-D3olpc got in bed with microsoftJul 21 22:45
schestowitzThey also don't like netbooksJul 21 22:45
schestowitzNow they make them more expensiveJul 21 22:45
Diablo-D3and negroponte is a fucktardJul 21 22:45
schestowitzWatc languageJul 21 22:46
Diablo-D3schestowitz: btwJul 21 22:46
Diablo-D3apple's investment in pa semi is coming to fruitionJul 21 22:46
MinceRthey've driven a lot of hype by it?Jul 21 22:46
MinceRthat's all they do anywayJul 21 22:46
Diablo-D3just like I said two years ago "I wonder why apple doesnt buy pa semi, they have their own ppc core and its ultra lower power, it competes with ARM for larger products where ARM doesnt quite fit"Jul 21 22:46
Diablo-D3then they bought pa semiJul 21 22:47
Diablo-D3pa semi also has an arm license, they have cortex a8 design thats perfect for future iphonesJul 21 22:47
MinceRa piece of sand would be perfect for future iphonesJul 21 22:47
MinceRit's not like they can be used for anything interesting anyway.Jul 21 22:47
MinceR 21 22:48
Diablo-D3MinceR: the hardware is powerfulJul 21 22:48
schestowitzI'm catching up with some old news... seen this from Carla yet? 21 22:48
Diablo-D3apple just wastes itJul 21 22:48
MinceRexactlyJul 21 22:48
schestowitzThunderbird messed up when I went awayJul 21 22:48
MinceRwhich makes it irrelevantJul 21 22:48
Diablo-D3alsoJul 21 22:48
Diablo-D3HURRRRRRRRRRJul 21 22:48
Diablo-D3wowJul 21 22:48
*ml2mst is back from the showers, this will probably piss Flatfish off :-)Jul 21 22:49
*Diablo-D3 pastes that image in other channelsJul 21 22:49
macoheh been sitting in my rss for  a whileJul 21 22:49
MinceRthe only way you can make use of that hardware is by throwing away the software you've paid for and the warranty you've paid forJul 21 22:49
MinceRand also potentially violating some lawsJul 21 22:49
Diablo-D3wellJul 21 22:49
Diablo-D3thats why I like android phonesJul 21 22:49
MinceRmeanwhile the competition gives you devices that do a lot more for lessJul 21 22:49
Diablo-D3it already runs whats essentially what I'd installJul 21 22:49
MinceRi'm considering androidJul 21 22:50
MinceRthey're doing some native code supportJul 21 22:50
MinceRi wonder where that will getJul 21 22:50
macough yeah a la carte tv would be great! syfy, history, comedy central, bbc america: all i needJul 21 22:50
Diablo-D3well, it'll get super optimized libs for stuff that actually mattersJul 21 22:50
MinceRalso, i wonder if one can teach it not to sync with Big Brother HQJul 21 22:50
Diablo-D3stuff will still be java oriented thoughJul 21 22:50
Diablo-D3although their java impl is damned fastJul 21 22:50
MinceRalso, there seem to be third-party projects to make shit actually workJul 21 22:51
Diablo-D3oh get thisJul 21 22:51
Diablo-D3I booted android in virtualboxJul 21 22:51
MinceRperhaps we'll even see non-java apis for phone stuffJul 21 22:51
Diablo-D3holy crap is it fastJul 21 22:51
fewamaco, and ESPN would cast $5/monthJul 21 22:51
fewathey currently charge cable companies like $2/m per subscriberJul 21 22:51
MinceRalso, does/will openmoko have 3g support at all?Jul 21 22:52
fewawhile is huge in the cable businessJul 21 22:52
Diablo-D3hehJul 21 22:52
Diablo-D3I pay $65/mo for 50 channels of analogJul 21 22:52
schestowitzWalter Cronkite dies at 92 < >Jul 21 22:52
macofewa: ew, sportsJul 21 22:52
fewamaco, i dont like sports, just remarking at the economicsJul 21 22:53
macoschestowitz: are you just going through last week's RSS?Jul 21 22:53
Diablo-D3yeah reallyJul 21 22:53
fewawhen you have lots of block pricing the economics are interestingJul 21 22:53
fewabecause the cable companies refuse to be utilities at delivering channels and instead insist on carefully crafted bundlesJul 21 22:54
*Diablo-D3 listens to huey lewis and the news - back in timeJul 21 22:55
schestowitzmaco: yes, TuxMachines, my favourite siteJul 21 22:55
Diablo-D3hey MinceR hey MinceRJul 21 23:03
Diablo-D3 21 23:03
MinceR:)Jul 21 23:03
*maco (n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw) has left #boycottnovell (" - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")Jul 21 23:03
fewalawlJul 21 23:04
MinceRthe brick is newer than the stone and yet it doesn't do anything new :>Jul 21 23:04
schestowitzThe brick has another gripJul 21 23:07
schestowitzIt's the 3G model of the stoneJul 21 23:07
MinceR:)Jul 21 23:07
schestowitziStone is a trap though.. you pay subscription to own itJul 21 23:07
schestowitzIf you open it up it self destructsJul 21 23:07
Diablo-D3mortgage, physicsJul 21 23:08
Diablo-D3you have a pointJul 21 23:08
*schestowitz has over 100 tabs open in FirefoxJul 21 23:09
Diablo-D3I have almost 200 across 12 windowsJul 21 23:09
schestowitzhardware4linux is back online < >Jul 21 23:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Troy is back at KDE! :-) 21 23:12
fewaschestowitz, what was the win32 gui api for UNIX called?Jul 21 23:13
schestowitzEmpathy is now in Karmic < >Jul 21 23:18
*Krenso ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 23:19
schestowitzBad rap for Satanic Edition.. 21 23:20
MinceRoh noes, they dare to not worship jesus christ, say no to themJul 21 23:23
schestowitzA LOT of GPL FUD recently...Jul 21 23:24
schestowitzWhy Apache is not the bottom of the open source incline < >Jul 21 23:24
schestowitzAll synched and mutually-fuelingJul 21 23:24
Diablo-D3it should be, btwJul 21 23:24
Diablo-D3cherokee > apacheJul 21 23:24
schestowitzMinceR: Another Reason I Don’t Like Apple < >Jul 21 23:25
schestowitzValid reasonJul 21 23:25
MinceRindeedJul 21 23:25
MinceRit's just more proof that crApple really does want to lock-in its usersJul 21 23:25
MinceRof course, the fanboys will never learnJul 21 23:26
schestowitzBlind loveJul 21 23:27
MinceRindeedJul 21 23:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu 8.04.3 LTS released 21 23:28
*amarsh04_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 23:28
schestowitz 21 23:32
schestowitzheh. He moved from Mandriva to Red Hat, so he put a red hat on his daughter's headJul 21 23:33
MinceR:)Jul 21 23:33
balzacGNU POwAHJul 21 23:35
schestowitzLinux Mail Storage Formats: Mbox vs MailDir < >Jul 21 23:36
schestowitzHey, balzac Jul 21 23:36
balzachey RoyJul 21 23:36
schestowitzGNu is under attackJul 21 23:36
schestowitzTHe GPL smeared and RMS alsoJul 21 23:36
schestowitzHe's a terrible comedianJul 21 23:36
balzacWhat are the freedom haters up to now?Jul 21 23:36
*tacone (n=Adium@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 23:37
schestowitzBlack Duck, which was founded by a Microsofter and still has another one on boatd spread FUDJul 21 23:37
balzacM$ or open source attack?Jul 21 23:37
schestowitzIt added CodePlexJul 21 23:37
schestowitzAnd then said GPL was decliningJul 21 23:37
schestowitzWHich is nonsenseJul 21 23:37
fewathey want people to be happy with Microsoft ripping them offJul 21 23:37
schestowitzThen all the GPL hater came out shouting death to the GPLJul 21 23:37
fewainstead of using GPL3Jul 21 23:37
schestowitzAnd RMS' old routine of mocking sexist sects is being spun as RMS being sexistJul 21 23:38
taconethey said they use gpl2 so they won't sue for patent. non senseJul 21 23:38
schestowitzYeahJul 21 23:38
schestowitzBut..Jul 21 23:38
fewa(if that is what people want them im fine with it, but Microsoft is trying to put veils around peoples eyes)Jul 21 23:38
schestowitzFor the kernel they usually need gplv2Jul 21 23:38
balzacTime for some Peking DuckJul 21 23:38
schestowitzgplv2 and v3 don't always mix wellJul 21 23:38
balzacGPL haters came out on what forum?Jul 21 23:39
fewaGPL2 GPL3Jul 21 23:39
schestowitzThe Black in Black Duck means secretJul 21 23:39
fewa*orJul 21 23:39
schestowitzLike a black boxJul 21 23:39
schestowitzThey should call it Black Dark SoftwareJul 21 23:39
schestowitzLike Net ApplicationsJul 21 23:39
fewaboth prevent embrace, extend, extinguishJul 21 23:39
schestowitzWhich is another Microsoft-backed lieJul 21 23:39
schestowitzThey measure some sites in the USJul 21 23:39
schestowitzMicrosofter a chiefJul 21 23:40
schestowitzand Microsoft their paying clientJul 21 23:40
fewathe numbers are fakedJul 21 23:40
schestowitzYesJul 21 23:40
schestowitzNot global, eitherJul 21 23:40
schestowitz 21 23:40
schestowitzThey try to scare game makers and h/w vendorsJul 21 23:40
fewaits just a carefully crafter way of manipulating the market by telling the market what to thinkJul 21 23:40
balzacBlack Duck needs to crawl back under it's rockJul 21 23:40
balzacyepJul 21 23:41
balzacthey're trying to propagandize their way to suppress GNUJul 21 23:41
schestowitzI confronted them over itJul 21 23:41
schestowitzThey didn't retractJul 21 23:41
balzacGNU is like a long-suffering but irrepressible beast which will not be denied its moment of triumphJul 21 23:41
schestowitzThey insisted Microsoft is now all nice anf fluffyJul 21 23:41
schestowitzThrey know BN was a critic all alongJul 21 23:41
fewaLies that are meant to manipulate markets are illegalJul 21 23:42
schestowitzThey added heaps of Windows-only 'open source' 0s and 1sJul 21 23:42
schestowitzAnd then announced that proportionally GPL declinedJul 21 23:42
balzacthat's why I generally say "f*ck open source"Jul 21 23:42
schestowitzfewa: yeah, good luck seeking justice over thatJul 21 23:42
fewabut still needs to be saidJul 21 23:42
schestowitzAnalyst pump stocks all the timeJul 21 23:42
fewapeople need to know that those who rip them off are reaking the lawJul 21 23:43
schestowitzSee the Comedy Cantral bit from Stewart (???/) and the Cramer Mad Money Show cotoroversy (CNBC)Jul 21 23:43
balzacbrbJul 21 23:43
fewaif they were confident in that knowledge then they wouldnt succumb to the spin as muchJul 21 23:43
schestowitzThe whole financial press is too capable of manipulating for profitJul 21 23:43
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jul 21 23:43
fewaIt is only the jews that defend a whole profession from hypocracy and ridicule, as most in those systems would rather through group think burn themselves to the groundJul 21 23:45
schestowitzGood lad: 21 23:45
schestowitzfewa: financial is a meta0-industryJul 21 23:46
fewaJohn Stewart makes a strong effect to make sure he isnt grouped into the Junk of the mediaJul 21 23:46
schestowitzNot sure it's an ethnic thing, ehtough.Jul 21 23:46
fewayeah i shouldnt have said thatJul 21 23:46
schestowitzJohn Stewart is funnyJul 21 23:46
schestowitzColbert is too weird sometimesJul 21 23:46
fewavery differnt backgroundsJul 21 23:47
schestowitzIt's an oversimplificationJul 21 23:47
fewawhat?Jul 21 23:47
fewacolbert?Jul 21 23:47
schestowitzAlthough the other day at the sauna we discussed some of the secret societiesJul 21 23:47
schestowitzSome say they could be worth trillionsJul 21 23:47
schestowitzAnd have existed for centuries with rules to prevent disclosuresJul 21 23:48
fewaBut without being proped up by the masses they would be worthlessJul 21 23:48
schestowitzDid you see the film "how money is made" (or something like that?)Jul 21 23:48
fewaAny ruling class can only rule through controlJul 21 23:48
fewaand upon the ignorance of the masses--often manufacturedJul 21 23:49
schestowitz"While ever firm is different, my best guess is that a single vendor open source firm should start out with the GPL and switch over to Apache when it thinks it can take the extra heat." 21 23:50
schestowitzfewa: they could get housewives and elderly couples to put their money in FraudStreet(R)Jul 21 23:50
schestowitzThese people have no inside informationJul 21 23:51
schestowitzSO the market can be inflated and then massively abandoned by those with insider informationJul 21 23:51
*amarsh04__ ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 23:51
schestowitzIt's not so uncommonJul 21 23:51
schestowitzIt's a sort of pyramid scheme, but rrequires explanationJul 21 23:51
fewaor fraud instruments--like leveraged byoutsJul 21 23:52
schestowitzSuppose you have a finite number of people and fundsJul 21 23:52
fewabuyouts*Jul 21 23:52
schestowitzYou want all of them to join the scheme at some levelJul 21 23:52
schestowitzAs long as you control the company or bankJul 21 23:52
schestowitzBut they are bottoms in this pyramid, stilllJul 21 23:52
fewaforced Fred Meyers groceries here to take on huge debt and then be acquired by KrogerJul 21 23:52
fewaall fraud against the companyJul 21 23:52
schestowitzWhere's "here"?Jul 21 23:52
fewaa form of fraud completely unenforced: that Board members are assumed to be working in the interest of their companiesJul 21 23:53
fewaPacific Northwest USJul 21 23:53
balzacschestowitz: you know what this Black Duck doodoo means?Jul 21 23:55
balzacIt means the proprietary software establishment lead by Microsoft is desperately seeking a glimmer of hope, as they see the GNU stampede comeing over the horizon.Jul 21 23:56
*ThistleWeb ( has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 23:56
balzacThey're trying to make their own good newsJul 21 23:56
balzacThey'd have us believe GNU is not really like the tide, eating away the foundation of their sand castle empire.Jul 21 23:56
schestowitzExactlyJul 21 23:57
balzacBut GNU is exactly the embodiment of the forces of entropy and reorganization that they most fear.Jul 21 23:57
schestowitzI de-legitimised them based on deedsJul 21 23:57
schestowitzThey also stole a databaseJul 21 23:57
schestowitzFrom PalamidaJul 21 23:57
schestowitzThey are a proprietary software-only companyJul 21 23:57
balzacyeah, I wondered why Palamida quitJul 21 23:57
schestowitzQuit?Jul 21 23:57
balzacmaybe because the truth was getting too scaryJul 21 23:57
schestowitzGPLv3 or altogether?Jul 21 23:57
balzactracking GPL propagationJul 21 23:57
schestowitzYeah.Jul 21 23:58
balzacthey stopped their monthly trackingJul 21 23:58
schestowitzBlack f* stole their DBJul 21 23:58
schestowitzWhich took a lot of work to achieveJul 21 23:58
schestowitzEven with the typosJul 21 23:58
balzacYeah, Black Duck probably screen-scraped the data or something.Jul 21 23:58
schestowitzThere are articles about itJul 21 23:58
schestowitzBlack Duck hopes people will forgetJul 21 23:58
balzacBlack Duck has the hand of Microsoft up its cloaca.Jul 21 23:58
schestowitzI never didJul 21 23:58
schestowitzI don't knowJul 21 23:59
schestowitzBut Doug Levy was from MicrosoftJul 21 23:59
schestowitzHe founded this thingJul 21 23:59
schestowitzHe's still in the boardJul 21 23:59
schestowitzNot the only one from Microsoft, eitherJul 21 23:59
balzacDoug Levy is the hand of microsoft up in the cloaca of the Black DuckJul 21 23:59
fewathere is no way to tell what percentage of codeJul 21 23:59
schestowitzI recently researched to see who's in chanrgeJul 21 23:59
*_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@ has joined #boycottnovellJul 21 23:59
schestowitzfewa: indeedJul 21 23:59
fewaany number of somebody who says they know are BSJul 21 23:59

Generated by 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!