IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 25th, 2009

taconeintel says that the anti-trust fine violates its human-rights http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/intel-tells-eu-court-antitrust-fine-violated-its-human-rights.ars lol !Jul 25 00:03
yuhongYep, does EU recognize corporate personhood?Jul 25 00:05
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tacone..Jul 25 00:07
Balrog__come on, IntelJul 25 00:08
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schestowitztacone: Intel has no human rightsJul 25 00:16
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schestowitzCompanies want to be perceived as humansJul 25 00:16
taconebecause they're not humansJul 25 00:16
schestowitzBut they are tyrannies, by structureJul 25 00:16
taconethey're droids :-]Jul 25 00:16
schestowitzSo Intel has its rights even as a diabled personJul 25 00:17
schestowitzOr mentally derangedJul 25 00:17
schestowitzOr too tallJul 25 00:17
schestowitzIntel demands its rights as a lesbianJul 25 00:17
schestowitzping tessier Jul 25 00:17
taconenobody ever won with that claimJul 25 00:17
taconeseems like they're not the first ones that tryJul 25 00:17
taconebasically: fine too high = human rights violatedJul 25 00:18
taconewhich is bullshitJul 25 00:18
taconethey're everywhere. even your wooden table has intel processors hidden somewhere. the fine is right.Jul 25 00:19
yuhongYep, does Europe even recognize corporate personhood?Jul 25 00:19
taconedunnoJul 25 00:20
*tessier_ is a lesbian trapped in a man's bodyJul 25 00:20
tessier_schestowitz: Hey there. How's it going?Jul 25 00:20
schestowitzGreat, thanksJul 25 00:20
schestowitzTrolling has calmed downJul 25 00:20
taconein italy you have physic person and juridic personJul 25 00:20
schestowitzWe now requires all to registerJul 25 00:20
tessier_greatJul 25 00:20
schestowitzI have a minor issueJul 25 00:20
tessier_What is it?Jul 25 00:20
schestowitzogv is sent as plain textJul 25 00:20
schestowitzI modified /etc/mime.type to no availJul 25 00:21
schestowitzI don't know if I did this right and it Apache took effect without a restart (??)Jul 25 00:21
schestowitzI used to just do this in cpanelJul 25 00:21
tessier_What is ogv?Jul 25 00:21
schestowitzogg videoJul 25 00:21
tessier_ohJul 25 00:22
tessier_let me see...Jul 25 00:22
schestowitzSome people use this extensionJul 25 00:22
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schestowitztessier: thanks.Jul 25 00:22
yuhongMIME type should be video/ogg.Jul 25 00:23
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tessier_schestowitz: Looks like you did it right. You might need an apache restart.Jul 25 00:23
schestowitzNo urgencyJul 25 00:25
schestowitzyuhong repoted itJul 25 00:25
schestowitzAbout a video of RMS from last weekJul 25 00:25
yuhongYep.Jul 25 00:25
schestowitzIt didn't autoplay in FF 3.5Jul 25 00:25
fewaI figured out the problemJul 25 00:29
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schestowitzI've just upgraded wordpress smoothly from the CLIJul 25 00:29
schestowitzcp -r * ../public_html/Jul 25 00:29
yuhongAnd I verified it by telnetting to port 80 of boycottnovell.com and doing a HEAD command.Jul 25 00:31
Balrog_yuhong: telnet!?Jul 25 00:34
Balrog_ahh, port 80Jul 25 00:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: Why Microsoft’s Patents Are Useless; More Patent Failure News http://ping.fm/nUHMaJul 25 00:48
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schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8168235.stm "Microsoft has made a new proposal to European competition regulators that it hopes will end their row over the firm's Internet Explorer web browser."Jul 25 00:52
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schestowitzMicrosoft 'punishes' itselfJul 25 00:52
schestowitzIn the same vein: I will 'punish' myself by delivering a computer to me without Windows preinstalledJul 25 00:52
schestowitzThat'll SHOW me !!Jul 25 00:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft airbrushes anti-Apple ad http://ping.fm/6NjNKJul 25 00:55
Balrog__schestowitz: microsoft is feeling the pain (monetarily)Jul 25 00:57
Balrog__well, their anti-Apple ad was deceptive practicesJul 25 00:57
Balrog__it stated that the cheapest 15" Apple laptop costs $2000, which wasn't true for about a month nowJul 25 00:58
Balrog__and they just continued airing it :\Jul 25 00:58
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yuhongWell, in this it was really EU trying to punish MS, forcing MS to do this, unlike the Google Japan Pay Per Click disaster.Jul 25 01:02
schestowitzWell done to the Commission for keeping the pressure up. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/07/24/microsoft-gives-in-on-ie-bundling-issueJul 25 01:08
twitterM$ has been fined by the EU.  Have they ever paid any of those fines or will they do like Exxon did to Alaskans?Jul 25 01:09
twitter->  European buyers of its new Windows 7 operating system will be offered a list of potential browsers when they first install the software.Jul 25 01:10
schestowitzJust delayJul 25 01:10
schestowitzAppeals and extensions to deadlinesJul 25 01:10
twitterhow about people will be able to chose the OS they like?Jul 25 01:10
schestowitzNot yetJul 25 01:10
twitterThe EU had better press for their money, or it won't be there.Jul 25 01:11
schestowitz"Bezos apology is wonderful, and a great leadership example that is to be welcomed. It doesn't change the fact, however, that the Kindle/DRM combination is orthogonal to freedom. What happens when Bezos and his like are not the boss? I still don't want a Kindle (etc)." http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/links_for_2009_07_241Jul 25 01:11
twitter"orthogonal" LOL.Jul 25 01:12
twitterFSF said it better.Jul 25 01:12
schestowitzHas Twitter ((the Web site) just 'cleaned up' by removing obvious spam accounts?Jul 25 01:12
silentivmschestowitz, seems that yesJul 25 01:13
twittertwitter does not use Twitter.Jul 25 01:13
schestowitzsilentivm: good.Jul 25 01:13
silentivmyepJul 25 01:13
schestowitzOvernight last nightJul 25 01:13
schestowitz"nicephones4you" is now following you...''Jul 25 01:13
schestowitz"RebbeccaTheHottie has just added your Twit to her favourites.."Jul 25 01:14
schestowitzMore Microsoft layoffs likelyJul 25 01:17
twitterFSF response ->  The real issue here is Amazon's use of DRM and proprietary software. They have unacceptable power over users, and actual respect necessitates more than an apology -- it requires abandoning DRM and releasing the Kindle's software as free software."Jul 25 01:17
schestowitzAre there more layoffs in Microsoft's future? < http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3491 >Jul 25 01:18
twitterreplace Amazon with Microsoft or any other non free software company.Jul 25 01:18
cubezzzkindle is just too expensiveJul 25 01:19
yuhongtwitter: Well, I would not go that far, DRM and proprietary software are different issues.Jul 25 01:21
yuhongAmazon BTW just bought Zappos which is good at using Twitter.Jul 25 01:22
twitter->  I don’t see any potential for us to [inaudible] this year.Jul 25 01:23
twitterfill in the blanks!Jul 25 01:23
schestowitzDid Bozo buy Zappos on Amazon?Jul 25 01:23
yuhongFSF also mentioned the fact that Amazon has been a good example in premoting DRM-free music.Jul 25 01:24
schestowitz" I don’t see any potential for us to survive (??) this year."Jul 25 01:24
schestowitz" I don’t see any potential for us to kick the CEO out (??) this year."Jul 25 01:24
twitterfire the shills?Jul 25 01:24
schestowitz" I don’t see any potential for us to massage revenue (??) this year."Jul 25 01:24
yuhongBoth Zappos and Amazon always had good customer service, I have heard.Jul 25 01:24
twitterhide our massive swindleJul 25 01:25
twitter:)Jul 25 01:25
schestowitz" I don’t see any potential for us to actually pay taxes outside Ireland (??) this year."Jul 25 01:25
twitteravoid regulatory implosionJul 25 01:25
twittermaintain control of OEMsJul 25 01:26
twittersurvive is my favorite thoughJul 25 01:26
schestowitzLet's make a post from thatJul 25 01:26
schestowitzHave fun with readersJul 25 01:26
twitterWhat do the tell these people when they lay them off?  "I'm sorry, Bob, but Ballmer's new mansion comes first around here."Jul 25 01:28
twitter"We don't want someone else to have the world's biggest boat, now do we?"Jul 25 01:28
fewasorry we dont have enough money for big profits around hereJul 25 01:28
fewaso we will have to let you goJul 25 01:29
twitter5,000 little contributions from 60k/year salaries help make these things possible.Jul 25 01:29
twitterWow, 8% flunk in a day. http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:MSFTJul 25 01:31
twitterIt won't be long before that stock is back under it's $20 rock.Jul 25 01:31
twitterHuge sell off.  10 million shares.Jul 25 01:31
twitterall day longJul 25 01:32
twitterIt's like a fire at the toilet paper warehouse!Jul 25 01:32
twitterIt looks like what's bad for M$ is good for HP, Intuit, Google, Apple, Yahoo, Symantic, IBM, Adobe and many others that rose today.Jul 25 01:34
twitterNot so good for Novell.Jul 25 01:34
twitterM$'s Gozallez speaks well of Imaginary Property - >  we are focused on creating pragmatic solutions to real-life problems that matter to real customers.  Intellectual property licensing is and will continue to be part of those solutions.Jul 25 01:37
twitterpragmatism, paying extortion money rather than calling the police.Jul 25 01:37
schestowitzIntel Celeron Dual-Core Linux Performance < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=intel_celeron_e1400&num=1 >Jul 25 01:37
twitterno, sorry that's cowardiceJul 25 01:37
schestowitzMicrosoft: GPL Linux code release not due to violation < http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135887/Microsoft_GPL_Linux_code_release_not_due_to_violation?source=rss_opsys >Jul 25 01:38
yuhongBTW, when are you going to restart apache? Because yes it does look like you did it rightJul 25 01:39
schestowitzWhen the server is restarted, I guessJul 25 01:39
schestowitzUnless tessier chooses to do it nowJul 25 01:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I'm being defended here, along with RMS: http://ping.fm/WuCw0Jul 25 01:47
schestowitzMicrosoft Linux code originally violated GPL  < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26473/1090/ >\Jul 25 01:47
schestowitzMicrosoft says "no", but who can trust its word?Jul 25 01:47
twitterthe mono team has faith!Jul 25 01:49
schestowitzBelieve without evidenceJul 25 01:51
yuhongArs just posted this article.Jul 25 01:54
yuhonghttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/bill-gates-the-blogger-reminisces-about-microsoft-in-1979.arsJul 25 01:54
yuhongPerhaps we should bring up the issue of how MS got evil again.Jul 25 01:54
twitterIgnore decades of evidence for the sake of their belief in mono, M$ and Novell.Jul 25 01:54
yuhongSome more links:Jul 25 01:55
yuhongwww.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000845.htmlJul 25 01:55
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/01/antitrust-letters-doj/Jul 25 01:55
schestowitzgnJul 25 01:58
yuhongI heard that Gates was an aggressive businessman, that may be one of the causes.Jul 25 01:58
amarsh04night, schestowitzJul 25 01:59
cubezzzI can remember in the 80's I didn't think of microsoft as evilJul 25 02:00
cubezzzthey probably were, but I didn't think so at the time :)Jul 25 02:01
fewathats a decent article by AtwoodJul 25 02:01
fewamentions that Mike Gunderloy stuffJul 25 02:02
fewathat i brought up beforeJul 25 02:02
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cubezzzthe doj didn't really reel in microsoft thoughJul 25 02:05
cubezzzall  the talk about breaking up microsoft, then nothing happenedJul 25 02:05
fewathe advance of technologyJul 25 02:06
fewaits really the internetJul 25 02:06
yuhongThat was a different storyJul 25 02:08
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/15/2000-character-assassination-personal-attack/Jul 25 02:08
fewano its the same storyJul 25 02:08
cubezzzI still can't walk into a store and get a linux computer or a linux pda, so although things have really improved, there's still room for more improvementJul 25 02:08
fewathe internet allow the collaboration of thousands and millions of developers in a bazzar mannerJul 25 02:09
yuhongThe GNU Manifesto was written ten years after Gates wrote the Open Letter to Hobbyists.Jul 25 02:10
Will___Has Roy changed things so that one can't add new comments to an older article after a certain amount of time/new posts?Jul 25 02:12
cubezzzI miss amiga, I miss beos, I'm not going to miss microsoft, if they ever finally goJul 25 02:13
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fewahttp://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.htmlJul 25 02:14
Diablo-D3yay paul graham!Jul 25 02:15
cubezzzmicrosoft sort of killed off the hobbyist programming with the win32 stuffJul 25 02:15
cubezzzsay from 1993 to 2000Jul 25 02:16
Diablo-D3linux came out in 1993, no? :DJul 25 02:16
cubezzzbut how many people were using it in 1993? that's the thingJul 25 02:17
Diablo-D3at least 5.Jul 25 02:17
cubezzz;-)Jul 25 02:18
cubezzzbefore 1993 a lot of people liked Amiga, which was a pretty open systemJul 25 02:19
twitterHere's an obvious thought about the RMS slime.  What makes these losers think that only men can strip the Virgin of Emacs of her ignorance?Jul 25 02:20
twitterThis duffus says that kind of thing here, http://mjg59.livejournal.com/113408.htmlJul 25 02:21
Will___twitter : I finally found a video of the IGNUcios act.Jul 25 02:21
Will___I didn't see what all the fuss was about.Jul 25 02:22
twitterThe fuss will soon go away, like most marketing efforts.Jul 25 02:22
Will___In context, it looked like it was more just poking light fun at religions in general, rather than anything overtly against women.Jul 25 02:23
cubezzzmicrosoft isn't dead, the OEM's all are still kowtowing to microsoftJul 25 02:23
cubezzzmaybe not as much as before, but still...Jul 25 02:23
Will___But then I tend to take things like that lightly anyway.  Didn't seem like he meant anything by it.Jul 25 02:24
fewaWill___, exactly, noone caresJul 25 02:25
fewacubezzz, not SheevaPlug, not NAS, not phones, and nothing else that runs or will run ARMJul 25 02:26
twitterOEMs that continue to kowtow will go out of business.Jul 25 02:27
yuhongOr stop kowtowing, likely when the market share for Windows gets smaller.Jul 25 02:28
Will___fewa : as long as he doesn't sing.  (No offense, rms)Jul 25 02:28
cubezzzheh, RMS knows if he acts like a normal boring guy no one will pay any attention to himJul 25 02:33
cubezzzit's partly because of his eccentric behaviour that he gets so much attentionJul 25 02:34
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fewaIBM still needs to sue the shit out of Windows for abusing the PC trademarkJul 25 02:39
fewa*MicrosoftJul 25 02:39
Diablo-D3manJul 25 02:39
Diablo-D3who caresJul 25 02:39
Diablo-D3PC is overrated anyhowJul 25 02:39
Diablo-D3ALL computers are personalJul 25 02:39
Diablo-D3do we have computers that exist for other computers to use? noJul 25 02:40
yuhongWell, PC was a generic word before the IBM PC.Jul 25 02:40
Diablo-D3they all exist to do some human taskJul 25 02:40
fewaim not really that adamant about itJul 25 02:40
Diablo-D3PC existed because mainframes once roamed the wild ... plains... of ... a DCJul 25 02:40
Diablo-D3or somethingJul 25 02:40
fewaand i guess its genericJul 25 02:41
Diablo-D3its genericJul 25 02:41
fewaactually they started using it after Apple started using the termJul 25 02:41
cubezzzwell, I wouldn't call a mainframe a PC :)Jul 25 02:41
yuhongAnd most of today's x86 PCs are still IBM PC compatible.Jul 25 02:41
Diablo-D3IBM PC just referred to specifically IBM'sJul 25 02:41
Diablo-D3Macs are PCsJul 25 02:41
fewayou can put 16-bit OS's on themJul 25 02:41
fewa:PJul 25 02:41
Diablo-D3people like to bitch loudly when you say thatJul 25 02:41
Diablo-D3but they're PCsJul 25 02:41
yuhongYes, nowadays Intel Macs are PC compatible.Jul 25 02:42
Diablo-D3Apple likes to use the word PC to refer to John Hodgman's characterJul 25 02:42
fewaDiablo-D3, yet Apple buys the hardware cheap, and then forced its customers to buy over-priced stuffJul 25 02:42
Diablo-D3but its pretty dumbJul 25 02:42
Diablo-D3fewa: wellJul 25 02:42
Diablo-D3I like Apple stuff for one reasonJul 25 02:42
yuhongYou don't get much choice with x86 processors anyway.Jul 25 02:42
Diablo-D3shortly after Apple innovates... everyone else steals it and makes it betterJul 25 02:42
cubezzzsome lawyer said "Don't say WIndows, say PC so you don't get sued" :)Jul 25 02:42
Diablo-D3cubezzz: yet PC runs WindowsJul 25 02:43
fewaDiablo-D3, what? firewire?Jul 25 02:43
Diablo-D3fewa: iphone -> everything that runs androidJul 25 02:43
Diablo-D3fewa: thin laptops -> everyone else's thin laptopsJul 25 02:43
Diablo-D3fewa: lcd imacs -> everyone else's imac cloneJul 25 02:43
Diablo-D3fewa: osx's really shiny UI -> vista in aero modeJul 25 02:43
yuhongI mean today's x86 procesors anyways.Jul 25 02:43
fewaVista shitty gui....Jul 25 02:44
fewashut a shitty rip offJul 25 02:44
Diablo-D3ehhJul 25 02:44
Diablo-D3I actually like aero's lookJul 25 02:44
Diablo-D3well, in 7Jul 25 02:44
Diablo-D37 makes it classier than in vistaJul 25 02:44
Diablo-D3I never thought a black ui could work, but it doesJul 25 02:45
Diablo-D3now, the only problem is EVERYTHING ELSE IN 7 SUCKSJul 25 02:45
fewayou mean VistaJul 25 02:45
yuhongYou can still replace the BIOS, but with today's chipsets you have no choice but to use PC-compatible port addresses and hardware.Jul 25 02:45
fewaVista 7Jul 25 02:45
Diablo-D3fewa: no, because Im going to start calling vista 6Jul 25 02:45
Diablo-D3since it isJul 25 02:45
fewaNT 6.1Jul 25 02:45
twitterM$ death watch updated.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707Jul 25 02:45
Diablo-D3and 2k/xp are 5 :DJul 25 02:45
yuhongAnd Server 2008 R2.Jul 25 02:46
twitterM$ Patent Extortion timeline updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219107Jul 25 02:46
fewayuhong, aka anti-features http://www.fsf.org/bulletin/2007/fall/antifeatures/Jul 25 02:46
cubezzzif Dell or HP stopped with the "XXX recommends WIndows Vista" crap... I mean, do they really recommend it?Jul 25 02:46
fewacubezzz, the deals leaked, its MSFT moneyJul 25 02:47
yuhongIn fact there is a move to replace the traditional IBM PC compatible BIOS with either EFI or coreboot.Jul 25 02:47
twitterRoy has published the extortion behind "recommends Windows"Jul 25 02:47
cubezzzahaJul 25 02:47
fewahttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/Jul 25 02:47
cubezzzwell, still shame on Dell & HPJul 25 02:47
yuhongWhat are you referring as anti-features, just to clarify?Jul 25 02:48
twitterOEMs are price punished of anything M$ decides is not good enough for them, essentially pushing Windoze as the best Evar.Jul 25 02:48
fewayuhong, difference between "server" and "desktop" Windows versionsJul 25 02:48
yuhongI know, there are many differences.Jul 25 02:49
fewathe article points out the sole difference between NTW and NTSJul 25 02:49
fewaanti-featuresJul 25 02:49
yuhongbetween server and desktop windows.Jul 25 02:49
fewa"desktop" == cripplewareJul 25 02:49
yuhongYep, that is well know.Jul 25 02:49
yuhongYep, that is well known.Jul 25 02:49
twitteryou can say that again, fewa.Jul 25 02:50
yuhongAnyway, gn.Jul 25 02:50
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twitterWithout html, ssh, or even samba, how is anyone supposed to share anything with their friends?Jul 25 02:50
twittersneaker net?Jul 25 02:50
twitterWelcome back to the 80s.Jul 25 02:50
fewatwitter, they just use non-MS software, works better tooJul 25 02:51
fewabut then there is the 10-connection anti-featureJul 25 02:51
twitterOf course, but can you imagine trying to get things done with nothing but a Vista Family Pack?Jul 25 02:51
fewanoJul 25 02:52
cubezzzwe had "Fish Disks" in the old days, you could download them from BBS :)Jul 25 02:52
cubezzzalthough it's a bit ridiculous to say the 80's were "old days"Jul 25 02:52
twitter30 years ago in dog/computer years is dead.Jul 25 02:53
cubezzzI can certainly remember before WindowsJul 25 02:53
cubezzzbefore PCs evenJul 25 02:53
cubezzzwe are in the tail end of the dark ages of computing in my opinionJul 25 02:55
cubezzzI had make choices at computer stores in the 80's for operating systems than I do nowJul 25 02:57
cubezzzmake = moreJul 25 02:57
cubezzzAmigaDOS, GEM, TRS80 DOS, MS DOS, and what ever Apple usedJul 25 02:59
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cubezzzI hate to say it but computers were more fun back thenJul 25 03:03
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yuhongI said that before, but in case you still hasn't seen it, this was posted only hours after MS's Hyper-V Linux patch.Jul 25 03:19
yuhonghttp://lkml.org/lkml/2009/7/20/425Jul 25 03:19
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fewacubezzz, could they do this: http://www.double.co.nz/video_test/video.svgJul 25 03:22
cubezzzwe dodmJul 25 03:26
cubezzzwe didn't have www we had rubik's cubes :)Jul 25 03:26
notzedwell they could do something equivalent, without tearing and better sound fx too ...Jul 25 03:30
fewanotzed, your right :PJul 25 03:31
fewawaiting for somebody to say thatJul 25 03:31
twitterOh wow, just wow.  ->  The deal covers four main areas of collaboration for Microsoft and Sun: selling OEM Windows Server hardware,  ensuring that Solaris is supported as a guest operating system on Microsoft's virtualization products including Virtual PC.Jul 25 03:37
twitterAfter M$ killed, " a world of thin clients running Java backed up by expensive Sun servers " Sun suffered the ultimate ignominy of being a M$ OEM.Jul 25 03:39
twitterand having Solaris "supported" as a guest on top of M$ crap.Jul 25 03:39
twitterand the gnu/linux world is supposed to now jump for joy at being made the same offer?  Ha!Jul 25 03:39
twitterhttp://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2007/09/sun-to-sell-windows-server-boxes.arsJul 25 03:39
twitterComes vrs M$ is filled with their plots to derail both java and thin clients.Jul 25 03:40
fewawe welcome any offers by microsoft that will allow Windows to run as a better guest to KVM, VirtualBox, etcJul 25 03:40
twitterSun should have sued M$ for all of that.Jul 25 03:40
fewaand they are free to use the open documentation to use the virt-IO driverJul 25 03:41
twitterIt's clear that the only way out of the madhouse is to walk out, not strap a gang of lunatics onto your back for "support"Jul 25 03:41
cubezzzseems an incredibly bad move for Sun :-/Jul 25 03:41
fewano need for multiple frameworks to do the same thing in the Linux KernelJul 25 03:42
fewaas even though it is implamented as hardware, virtual hardware is just softwareJul 25 03:42
fewawhy cant they write to the existing API?Jul 25 03:43
twitterWho needs them?Jul 25 03:43
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twitterI've been running free software exclusively for almost a decade.  The further you get from the loony bin, the more you realize that you never needed any of it.Jul 25 03:44
twitterWhat M$ does and says only makes sense when you are an inmate and everywhere you look you see more M$.Jul 25 03:45
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twitterWhen you get out, you realize what a confining little word the M$ universe was and how much nicer it is in the sunshine.Jul 25 03:45
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twittercomparing M$ to a prison or loony bin.Jul 25 03:52
twitterhe heJul 25 03:52
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twitterA place with its own strange logic and rules enforced by people who pretend they mean well but who loath being there almost as much as they loath the inmates.Jul 25 03:53
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oiaohmPrison is a good way to put it.Jul 25 03:54
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tessierschestowitz: I just restarted httpd. Check if your mime change has taken effect.Jul 25 05:08
tessierRestarting http takes just a second. Nobody generally notices.Jul 25 05:09
fewatessier, restarts can actually work without downtimeJul 25 05:10
fewai dont know if apache does it howeverJul 25 05:10
fewayou just start the new ones up with a spinlock on the ports, before you shut the origional downJul 25 05:11
dsmith_wow twitterJul 25 05:12
dsmith_you are so rightJul 25 05:12
dsmith_:)Jul 25 05:12
dsmith_i get agitated when someone tells me "I need Windows"...or "I need to have Microsoft on my computer"Jul 25 05:13
dsmith_reminds me of a crack addictJul 25 05:14
fewadsmith_, http://lwn.net/Articles/90619/Jul 25 05:14
fewa" As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours. They'll get sort of addicted, and then we'll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade .Jul 25 05:15
fewa"Jul 25 05:15
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dsmith_lolJul 25 05:15
dsmith_wowJul 25 05:15
dsmith_yeaJul 25 05:15
dsmith_that was I was referring toJul 25 05:16
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oiaohmWhat it is dsmith_ is Stockholm Syndrome.  Read up about it a lot of people who say the need windows are following it.Jul 25 05:19
oiaohmIts not really addicted it something far worse.Jul 25 05:20
fewaCheck out the history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)#ControversyJul 25 05:21
fewaCheck out the history here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing)Jul 25 05:21
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ribbon_%28computing%29#Conflict_of_InterestJul 25 05:21
fewawhile someone else got out: http://openworld2010.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/veteran-developer-ditches-microsoft-for-open-source/ http://web.archive.org/web/20070911055336/http://www.afreshcup.com/2006/12/9/what-s-going-on-hereJul 25 05:22
dsmith_hmmmmmmmmmmmJul 25 05:24
fewasame eventJul 25 05:24
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dsmith_i forgot about the MS ribbon thingJul 25 05:27
dsmith_thats crazyJul 25 05:27
*dsmith_ tries to think of an anaologyJul 25 05:28
fewa"Microsoft itself represents a grave threat to the future of software development through its increasing inclination to stifle competition through legal shenanigans."Jul 25 05:28
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twitterIncreasing M$ FlailJul 25 05:31
Tallkeni wasn't expecting any1 online now lolJul 25 05:32
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twitter:)Jul 25 05:34
yuhongNow the MIME type is fixed, this <video> works for me now.Jul 25 05:35
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/17/richard-m-stallman-on-c-sharp/Jul 25 05:35
twitterha ha, another "emergency patch" http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135904/Microsoft_to_rush_out_emergency_IE_patchJul 25 05:40
*dsmith_ doesn;t have those issues anymoreJul 25 05:40
fewawhich ones?Jul 25 05:41
dsmith_Windows updatesJul 25 05:41
Diablo-D3whos hosting these videos?Jul 25 05:42
dsmith_LOL...Microsoft didn't give a reason for the rushed update but it may be trying to stay ahead of any public disclosure at next week's Black Hat security conference in Las Vegas.Jul 25 05:43
fewalolJul 25 05:43
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dsmith_funny it takes a conference for them to ACTJul 25 05:43
*dsmith_ wonders if IE7 and IE8 would be in existance if Firefox had never come aboutJul 25 05:44
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fewaprobably notJul 25 05:45
fewawhere would they get the feature ideas from?Jul 25 05:45
dsmith_hah trueJul 25 05:45
dsmith_why i the hell would someone pay a license for a gui ribbonJul 25 05:47
tessierhttp://usairsucks.orgJul 25 05:59
tessierI just put that up. They really screwed me over.Jul 25 05:59
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dsmith_wow tessier, thats sucksJul 25 06:20
oiaohmhttp://www.osnews.com/story/21890/Microsoft_To_Offer_Browser_Ballot_Caves_to_EU_Pressure  << I see MS is slowing seeing there is no such thing as argue with the EU regulators and win.Jul 25 06:21
tessierdsmith_: IndeedJul 25 06:22
twitterprivacy considered national security threat in Russia http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/07/25/0015250/Skype-Apparently-Threatens-Russian-National-SecurityJul 25 06:23
dsmith_A lot of people do not know about different browsers, they don't even know what a browser is. "The blue E is the internet"(I deleted the internet!)Jul 25 06:24
tessierWell, that's Russia. They've never been all that sane about freedoms or anything.Jul 25 06:24
dsmith_anyone get skype to work with an external phone or headset on linux?Jul 25 06:26
twitterhave not tried.  Works out of the box on 701SD EEEPC.Jul 25 06:26
twitterwith normal microphone.Jul 25 06:26
twitterand webcamJul 25 06:26
twitterblue tooth headset would be nice, if it will work around the house.Jul 25 06:27
twitterotherwise talk loud.Jul 25 06:27
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twitterspell check your email, selectively quote it, and strip headers.  http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/07/24/2243209/IBM-Seeks-Patent-On-Digital-Witch-Hunts?art_pos=7Jul 25 06:28
twitteryour boss is using stenography to track you.Jul 25 06:28
twitternastyJul 25 06:28
twitterha ha.  iPhone encryption of data is a farce.  http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/07/24/2218201/iPhone-3Gs-Encryption-Cracked-In-Two-MinutesJul 25 06:30
oiaohmOk that is getting up there.  Almost as bad a the lost dog in the air craft luguage that end up half way around the world form where it was going with its transport id lost.Jul 25 06:30
twitterand they did not talk about ATT back doors that are probably there too.Jul 25 06:30
twitterduhJul 25 06:30
fewamost software is like thatJul 25 06:33
oiaohmiphone encryption is not designed to keep data in by the sound of it.  But designed to get money to get data back when the phone breaks.Jul 25 06:34
fewa^^Jul 25 06:34
oiaohmNice secoundary business apple.Jul 25 06:34
fewaits iTunesJul 25 06:37
fewalolJul 25 06:37
oiaohmYep exactly fewaJul 25 06:37
fewawhy would someone even encrypt that except to lock themselves out of their own data?Jul 25 06:37
oiaohmSo when phones die Apple gets to sell more copies of the same songs.Jul 25 06:38
fewathats a jokeJul 25 06:38
fewawhen was music private?Jul 25 06:38
oiaohmFor secure devices where you do want data not recoverable when device dies you do what apple did in iphones.Jul 25 06:39
twittermusic is private when you have it on a device in your pocket.Jul 25 06:40
oiaohmMakes devices simpler to junk.Jul 25 06:40
twitterpeople encrypt their email, contacts and other jazz on iPhone, I suppose.Jul 25 06:40
twitterThe problem is that the device's software has owners.  Even if it were difficult for your neighbors to crack it open, you never know if the owner is really locked out.  When the owner is as disrespectful as Apple or ATT, you can be sure your privacy is zero.Jul 25 06:42
fewatwitter, no its iTunes specific i believeJul 25 06:42
fewameaning its uselessJul 25 06:42
fewaits just lock-inJul 25 06:42
fewaits against youJul 25 06:42
twitterokJul 25 06:42
twitterI don't care to own an iphoneJul 25 06:42
oiaohmApple just wrapped it up in words to make it sound good to end users.Jul 25 06:43
fewaits a jokeJul 25 06:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] I finally wrote about what those idiots did to me: http://usairsucks.orgJul 25 06:43
oiaohmIts very much like people and bitlocker.Jul 25 06:43
oiaohmMost people don't need it yet I still get people who never use bitlocker who tell me they got Windows Vista Business for it.Jul 25 06:44
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fewai hear bitlocker uses TPMJul 25 07:01
fewaoiaohm, you mean they got the less crippled version....Jul 25 07:03
oiaohmIf its not a feature you are ever going to use.  Why would it be a valid reason to buy it fewa.Jul 25 07:13
oiaohmYes I am too logical.Jul 25 07:13
fewa:PJul 25 07:13
Trialsbecause its supplied with other features thagt you will (may) use.Jul 25 07:14
fewaPut windows in a virtual machine, qcow2 supports encryption, or use loopbackJul 25 07:14
oiaohmtruecrypt also offers full encryption with windows even in a stealth partition.Jul 25 07:15
TrialsObviously if it is a feature you do use, then you would want it, or you can do the VM, qcow2 and so on.Jul 25 07:15
oiaohmIts just something that annoys me.Jul 25 07:15
fewahttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#TrueCryptJul 25 07:16
Trialsyour car probably goes faster than is legal for you to travel, but yet you still pay for the feature you may never use.Jul 25 07:16
fewasupposedly it is a very good productJul 25 07:19
fewacross platformJul 25 07:19
oiaohmAs I said too logical.  Trials.  I would not give speed as a reason that I got a car in most cases.  Maybe faster accelreation.Jul 25 07:20
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oiaohmI do give the fedora guys that the truecrypt licence is a mess.Jul 25 07:20
fewaits not just fedoraJul 25 07:20
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fewaevery distrobution has decided thatJul 25 07:20
oiaohmhttp://www.truecrypt.org/legal/licenseJul 25 07:21
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrueCrypt#LicensingJul 25 07:21
fewaI wish it was betterJul 25 07:21
oiaohmProduct great license is only fine in some countries.Jul 25 07:21
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TrialsI just read a great idea, about making the GPL expire after 5 years allowing GPL'd code over 5 years to go to the public domain. This would show that FOSS is willing to reform their own system, like they want to be done with Patents.Jul 25 07:26
fewaTrials, the problem is if propritary vendors can take that code, change it a little, and basically recopyright itJul 25 07:26
oiaohmThat is the dumb pirate bay idea.Jul 25 07:27
fewaaka eternal copyrightJul 25 07:27
fewaMicrosoft only changed the (c) notivce for Vista 7 like a week agoJul 25 07:27
Trialsbut you've had 5 years to make your profit and benifit from it, its your patent protection.Jul 25 07:27
fewacause they didn't really change it, but they still upgraded the eternal copyrightJul 25 07:27
Trialsif you cant do something with it in 5 years, you're too slowJul 25 07:27
oiaohmYou are badly wrong TrialsJul 25 07:27
fewaTrials, you dont get itJul 25 07:28
Trialsthats right, you give up copyright after 5 years, its public domain after that.Jul 25 07:28
oiaohmMost great projects take 10 years to get a foot hold.Jul 25 07:28
fewaTrials, no its notJul 25 07:28
TrialsThat is free software right.Jul 25 07:28
fewaTrials, as the propritary vendors will never release the codeJul 25 07:28
oiaohmSo you would have killed most open source TrialsJul 25 07:28
Diablo-D3http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/17/AR2009071701785_pf.htmlJul 25 07:28
fewaand then can just "extend" the APIs they control to force people to upgradeJul 25 07:28
Trialsmost project do not take that long, this is the computer age ~~Jul 25 07:28
fewaaka downgradeJul 25 07:28
fewato something imcompatibleJul 25 07:28
oiaohmThere is a reason why patent coverage is 20 years TrialsJul 25 07:28
oiaohm5 years is basically not workable.Jul 25 07:29
Trialsdont you want patent reform ?Jul 25 07:29
fewaTrials, copyrights, patents, which are you talking aboutJul 25 07:29
fewaTrials, two differnt topics, pick oneJul 25 07:29
oiaohmPatents also take massive ammount of paper work each one.Jul 25 07:29
Trialsseems workable, but it seems FOSS would have to give up other's freedom to do it.Jul 25 07:29
oiaohmWhere copyrights are cheep.Jul 25 07:29
fewaTrials, which are we talking about?Jul 25 07:29
oiaohmYou are talking at least 15 thousand dollars to take out a patent TrialsJul 25 07:30
oiaohmSo you have effectively killed open source.Jul 25 07:30
fewaTrials hasn't been clear on what he is talking aboutJul 25 07:30
Trialswe'll for an international patent yes,Jul 25 07:30
fewaand believes that binaries count as "public domain"Jul 25 07:30
oiaohmNo that is just for an Australian patent.Jul 25 07:30
Trialsim talking about copyright, and FOSS GPL expiring after a time period.Jul 25 07:30
oiaohmInternational add another 20 thousand TrialsJul 25 07:30
Trialsthen the software goes to public domain for all to FREELY use.Jul 25 07:30
fewaTrials, xcept that its binaryJul 25 07:31
fewaso noone has any idea what it actually doesJul 25 07:31
oiaohmClosed source software would also have to be required to give up source code.Jul 25 07:31
oiaohmOr you have created a completely miss blanced field.Jul 25 07:31
oiaohmSo open source will end.Jul 25 07:31
fewaTrials, binaries shouldn't be copyrightable, they are purely functionalJul 25 07:31
Trialsclosed source are not promoting their product as FREEJul 25 07:32
oiaohmMS does with IE.Jul 25 07:32
oiaohmSorry TrialsJul 25 07:32
fewaTrials is _Mutex_Jul 25 07:32
oiaohmLot of closed soruce programs out there are called free.Jul 25 07:32
TrialsFree use, not free source.Jul 25 07:32
fewa* [Trials] (n=teddy2@CPE-58-164-16-203.nsw.bigpond.net.au): ttfJul 25 07:32
fewakickbanJul 25 07:32
fewaschestowitz,Jul 25 07:32
oiaohmGPL is not free source and does not claim to be TrialsJul 25 07:32
Trialsmy argument too strong for you fewa ?Jul 25 07:32
oiaohmIf companies don't ahve the protection of GPL they might as well return to closed soruce.Jul 25 07:33
TrialsRule: 0 of the GPL disagrees with you, but whatever.Jul 25 07:33
oiaohmLinus could basically closed source Linux in 5 years with your change.Jul 25 07:33
oiaohmSame with everything else.Jul 25 07:33
oiaohmSee the BSD disaster all over again.Jul 25 07:33
TrialsNo because I said it goes public domain, thats public domain thats not proprietary.Jul 25 07:34
Trialsyou know the difference between public domain and closed ?Jul 25 07:34
oiaohmpublic domain and BSD licence are basically the same.Jul 25 07:34
oiaohmYou can take embed it in a closed source program and tell no one.Jul 25 07:34
oiaohmSo thank for ending open source.Jul 25 07:34
TrialsBSD are on Macs, there are far more BSD licenses than GPL licensesJul 25 07:34
oiaohmUnix world shows you what happens.Jul 25 07:35
oiaohmMacs have closed bits up.Jul 25 07:35
oiaohmBSD birthed most of the closed source Unixes.Jul 25 07:35
Trialsbsd hasnt thoughJul 25 07:35
oiaohmBefore Macs existed.Jul 25 07:35
oiaohmI have see the result of too open of licence.Jul 25 07:35
Trialslike what ?Jul 25 07:36
fewaTrials, what have you seen?Jul 25 07:36
Trialspopularity ?Jul 25 07:36
oiaohmEach of the Unixes become incompadible with each other.Jul 25 07:36
oiaohmEven that they had the same base code.Jul 25 07:36
oiaohmIn ways that full compadiblity could not be restored.Jul 25 07:36
Trialsapache is open source license its use by google and its big, BSD used by Apple its big. it's open source its not GPL sure.Jul 25 07:36
TrialsMIT is an open source license as well, there are lots of them.Jul 25 07:37
oiaohmMost open soruce licences have the restriction that you must give back your alterations.Jul 25 07:37
oiaohmThat was a lession from the BSD mess.Jul 25 07:38
Trialsmust dont, list the ones that do ?? apart from the GPLJul 25 07:38
Trialswhat ones require you to return code ?Jul 25 07:38
Trialsnone, apart from the GPl gthats rightJul 25 07:38
oiaohmYou missed firefox'sJul 25 07:39
oiaohmMost of the major project licences require source code return.Jul 25 07:39
oiaohmOlder licences formed in the time of the Unix mess like BSD and MIT don't have it.Jul 25 07:39
Trialsfirefox is a browser, not a license, its probably licensed under the mozilla license ?Jul 25 07:39
fewaTrials, you missed Oracle DBJul 25 07:40
oiaohmMozilla's licence.Jul 25 07:40
oiaohmSun even has licences that require code return.Jul 25 07:40
fewaBerkely DB*Jul 25 07:40
oiaohmMS even has licences that require code return.Jul 25 07:40
oiaohmThese are modern created licences TrialsJul 25 07:40
TrialsOracle DB is a database, what is the licenses, seems you are having lots of trouble listing them.Jul 25 07:40
fewaTrials, you came here to trollJul 25 07:40
oiaohmmozilla public licenceJul 25 07:41
fewaTrials, Sleepycat Public LicenseJul 25 07:41
oiaohmMost end in the words Public Licence TrialsJul 25 07:41
oiaohmBecause the code return is designed to protect the public from company close sourcing.Jul 25 07:41
Trialsmozilla is licenses undes the GPL for the code modifications section.Jul 25 07:41
oiaohmNo TrialsJul 25 07:41
fewaIts licenced under the Mozilla Public LicenceJul 25 07:42
TrialsWhat ones oiaohm, ?? has a return code like the GPL why cant you list them ?Jul 25 07:42
oiaohmmozilla public licence is GPL incompadible.Jul 25 07:42
oiaohmIt is a compeltely independant document TrialsJul 25 07:42
TrialsLicense MPL/GNU GPL/GNU LGPL/Mozilla EULA (for binary redistribution)Jul 25 07:42
Trials Firefox's source code is free software, released under a tri-license GNU GPL/GNU LGPL/MPL.[10] Official versions are distributed under the terms of a proprietary EULA.[11][12]Jul 25 07:42
oiaohmMPLJul 25 07:43
fewaTrials, are you going to read the document, or keep spouting misinformation and false incompetence?Jul 25 07:43
oiaohmMozilla Public Licence.Jul 25 07:43
oiaohmIts not GPL>Jul 25 07:43
oiaohmIts another licence.Jul 25 07:43
Trialsbut it IS ALSO the GPL and as such by the GPL it has to return code, so whats your point.Jul 25 07:43
oiaohmSome mozilla projects are pure MPL.Jul 25 07:44
Trials Firefox's source code is free software, released under a tri-license GNU GPL/GNU LGPL/MPL.[10] Official versions are distributed under the terms of a proprietary EULA.[11][12]Jul 25 07:44
oiaohmYou asked for another licence.Jul 25 07:44
fewaTrials, you can choose any one licenceJul 25 07:44
Trialshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_FirefoxJul 25 07:44
oiaohmRead carefully it reads tri-licence.Jul 25 07:44
Trialsdont argue with me, that says your wrong sorry.Jul 25 07:44
fewaTrials, you are contradicting youself, and pretending to cite authorityJul 25 07:44
oiaohmCode has 3 licences you can ship under.Jul 25 07:44
oiaohmGPL LGPL and MPL.Jul 25 07:44
Trialsand is one of those TRI licenses the GPL ??????Jul 25 07:44
oiaohmYet due to tri licence you could choose to ship under MPL only.Jul 25 07:45
fewaof GPL onlyJul 25 07:45
fewa*orJul 25 07:45
oiaohmBasically you can ship it in 3 forms.Jul 25 07:45
Trialsdoes not matter how many forms there are, as long as one of them is the GPL what I said holds true. as you know.Jul 25 07:46
oiaohmhttp://www.sun.com/cddl/cddl.html is anotherJul 25 07:46
oiaohmSolarias ships purely under cddl without GPL.Jul 25 07:46
oiaohmSorry what you said does not hold true.Jul 25 07:47
oiaohmAlso worse fact here the most dominate open source licence is GPL.Jul 25 07:47
TrialsI did not say there were not other licenses in use, just very very few that force the return of code like the GPL,  thats all I was saying, and so far you have not changed that fact.Jul 25 07:47
oiaohmNo you said no others.Jul 25 07:48
oiaohmThere are other licences.Jul 25 07:48
oiaohmAll of them modern.Jul 25 07:48
TrialsHow is the GPL most dominate ?Jul 25 07:48
oiaohmBSD and MIT are old licences.Jul 25 07:48
oiaohmMost projects using GPL compared to any other licence Trials.Jul 25 07:48
TrialsOSX is bsd based there are alot more BSD OS's than GPLJul 25 07:49
oiaohmWrong.Jul 25 07:49
fewaDead wrongJul 25 07:49
oiaohmBSD comes in second.Jul 25 07:49
oiaohmBy are large margin.Jul 25 07:49
Trialsyou saying OSX is not bsd based ?Jul 25 07:49
fewa_Mutex_, Trials, who pays you?Jul 25 07:49
oiaohmOSX is bsd based but in project numbers its nothing.Jul 25 07:50
Trialswhat are my questions too hard for you ? why not just answer them ?Jul 25 07:50
fewa_Mutex_, Trials, who pays you?Jul 25 07:50
oiaohmEven section that ship with OSX are GPL.Jul 25 07:50
Trialseverone know there are far more OSX's than linux's.Jul 25 07:50
fewaWho pays you to seed lies?Jul 25 07:50
fewaTrials, there are only 5 OSX'sJul 25 07:50
Trialswhat lies Fewa ?Jul 25 07:51
Trialsprove me wrong please,  and ill shut up.Jul 25 07:51
fewa_Mutex_ is it Microsoft? Apple?Jul 25 07:51
Trialsno one pays me, I do not work for anyone either.Jul 25 07:51
oiaohmApple desktop is small compared to Linux's super computer and embed numbers.Jul 25 07:51
fewa_Mutex_ do you do this in your basement?Jul 25 07:51
oiaohmBasically compared to Linux its numbers are nothing TrialsJul 25 07:52
TrialsLOL, thats funny fewa, hay here's an idea why not answer the questions instead of avoiding them by personal insults ??Jul 25 07:52
fewaTrials, what questions?Jul 25 07:52
oiaohmThe types of platforms Linux covers is larger than Apples.Jul 25 07:52
fewaWhat questions have not only begged false pretenses?Jul 25 07:53
Trialsok oiaohm no point in talking to someone who thinks linux is more popular than appleJul 25 07:53
oiaohmBasically desktop market is not everything.Jul 25 07:53
oiaohmApple is only more popular in a few restricted markets TrialsJul 25 07:53
Trialssure, but its huge and something.Jul 25 07:53
oiaohmMost people have linux devices and don't even know it.Jul 25 07:53
TrialsI would not call the desktop "restricted" but ok.Jul 25 07:53
fewaTrials, "huge and something", is that a number? quantifiable?Jul 25 07:54
oiaohmEven people using windows who will not touch Linux.Jul 25 07:54
oiaohmLinux has go into homes invistably.Jul 25 07:54
Trialsfewa, huge means alot yes..Jul 25 07:54
oiaohmLike adsl modems.Jul 25 07:54
fewaTrials, your router runs LinuxJul 25 07:54
Trialssure, i know that.Jul 25 07:54
oiaohmSo in compared of numbers of devices sold.Jul 25 07:54
fewaTrials, freenode, this IRC server, runs LinuxJul 25 07:54
oiaohmApple is nothing.Jul 25 07:55
oiaohmMS barely registers against Linux.Jul 25 07:55
oiaohmJust the desktop is what people see.Jul 25 07:55
oiaohmDamage the GPL licence and other licences like CDDL forced code returnes you will have massive effects.Jul 25 07:56
oiaohmThat you cannot see.Jul 25 07:56
oiaohmLike adsl modems being more expensive and more feature limited.Jul 25 07:56
oiaohmSo you will pay for it.Jul 25 07:56
oiaohmDo you dispute that TrialsJul 25 07:57
Trialssorry, was not listening, yes sure what you said.Jul 25 07:57
fewaTrials, lolJul 25 07:57
oiaohmSo you are a troll.Jul 25 07:57
fewaTrials, you a laughing stockJul 25 07:58
oiaohmThere is a lot more to the computer world than desktops.Jul 25 07:58
Trialsif that is what you call someone you dont agree with I guess I amJul 25 07:58
oiaohmI work in the world of embeded.Jul 25 07:58
TrialsSo do i oiaohm.Jul 25 07:58
oiaohmIt out number desktop.Jul 25 07:58
oiaohmBy a large number.Jul 25 07:58
Trialsand most "real" embedded, well the stuff that really matters does NOT run linux either.Jul 25 07:59
oiaohmRemember even nokia phone OS is under GPL.Jul 25 07:59
Trialsas you well know oiaohmJul 25 07:59
oiaohmLinux is not alone in the embed market.Jul 25 08:00
Trialsyes, I agree phones, and routers and bridges, DSL modems and GPS's and so on run a cut down GPLd code, I know that.Jul 25 08:00
oiaohmThat is where large section of GPL code is.Jul 25 08:01
oiaohmIn the stuff you cannot see.Jul 25 08:01
fewaPowering everyday activitiesJul 25 08:01
oiaohmAnd its growning.Jul 25 08:01
oiaohmBasically MS went after desktop.  Linux went after suppers.Jul 25 08:02
oiaohmLinux got suppers and MS got desktop.Jul 25 08:02
oiaohmNow Linux is going after embedded.Jul 25 08:02
fewasuperior development modelJul 25 08:02
Trialsas oiaohm knows SCADA systems are where most embedded processors are for each person on earth, in 2000 it was about 13 CPU's per person on earth. not more and they NO NOT USE FOSS or GPL.Jul 25 08:02
oiaohmDepends on the SCADA system.Jul 25 08:02
oiaohmThere are GPL SCADA systems.Jul 25 08:02
TrialsYes, it does, but nonoe are GPL linux, OK you would be able to show me where then I would be interested to see that.Jul 25 08:03
oiaohmI was talking about GPL numbers.Jul 25 08:03
fewaTrials, what Linux is not GPL, _Mutex_ the troll?Jul 25 08:03
oiaohmNot Linux alone.Jul 25 08:04
Trialswho said linux is not GPL ?Jul 25 08:04
oiaohmLinux makes up a large section.Jul 25 08:04
oiaohmboth there are other blocks.Jul 25 08:04
oiaohmboth/butJul 25 08:04
Trialswhat systems oiaohm and what is the supervisory application that they use ?Jul 25 08:04
fewaTrials, I thought you worked in embedded?Jul 25 08:04
Trialswhat control protocol does it use, DNP, Symax ?? or something else ?Jul 25 08:05
fewaTrials, and therefor you shouldnt have to ask redundant questions?Jul 25 08:05
Trialswhat do the PLC's run ?Jul 25 08:05
fewaTrials, there are even Ethernet UDP offload cards, cause Windows is so incapable of doing UDP/IP and TCP/IPJul 25 08:06
fewaThey run Linux/netfilterJul 25 08:07
Trialsgood for them :)Jul 25 08:07
oiaohmTrials since PLC have a standard for programing them some systems don't even bother with platform dependant code and just run java on a client OS.Jul 25 08:09
Trialsoiaohm, you've not worked in the SCADA industry have you ? but thats ok,Jul 25 08:10
fewaTrials, what did we say about personal attacks earlier?Jul 25 08:10
oiaohmSCADA has many different reasons and many different requirements.Jul 25 08:11
Trialsim just saying its clear his expertise is not in that area,Jul 25 08:11
oiaohmI guess you have been in a limited area of it TrialsJul 25 08:11
Trialswhich im sure oiaohm understandsJul 25 08:11
oiaohmMy experise is designing systems from scratch to do particular tasks.  SCADA  it self is not black and white.Jul 25 08:13
TrialsI worked for a SCADA company that did everything, including designing building and programming the PLC's the RTU's for industry and for our own use nation wide. one of the largest SCADA companies on the planet !!Jul 25 08:13
oiaohmMine monitoring I guess you have not done TrialsJul 25 08:14
oiaohmDifferent time frame requirements.Jul 25 08:14
oiaohmIt is still a SCADAJul 25 08:14
TrialsMy training is electronics engineering and software and ive build scientific instrumentation systems (custom) mostly, but spent 6 years working in SCADAJul 25 08:14
oiaohmThere are a lot of different forms of SCADAJul 25 08:15
Trialsmine monitoring, yes i have, they have a system here that got into some trouble because its called MACJul 25 08:15
Trialsused in long wall coal mining scada systems here, and intrinsicly safe.Jul 25 08:15
oiaohmCoal is a different beast to solid rock mines.  That I was dealing with.Jul 25 08:16
Trialswe have lots of those here too, and long wall is different to anythingJul 25 08:16
oiaohmEven more fun when the Mine is humanless all bar the transport trucks.Jul 25 08:17
Trialsagain, thats what long wall isJul 25 08:17
oiaohmHumanless for repair.Jul 25 08:18
schestowitzHeyJul 25 08:18
oiaohmThose are true sport TrialsJul 25 08:18
oiaohmHi schestowitzJul 25 08:19
fewaSupJul 25 08:19
schestowitzSO trials is like the 10th nymshift of Mutex...Jul 25 08:25
schestowitzIt figures (I knew he was a troll, but not the Mutex troll)Jul 25 08:25
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*@CPE-58-164-16-203.nsw.bigpond.net.auJul 25 08:25
*schestowitz has kicked Trials from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Jul 25 08:25
schestowitzI forgot to add an opJul 25 08:26
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oiaohmNo problem Trials run out of fight schestowitzJul 25 08:42
schestowitzIt took us days... to just do a quick WHOISJul 25 08:45
schestowitzBear in mind he supported other people who trolled this channel during the weekJul 25 08:45
schestowitzAnd I suspect he leaves comments in BN under "nemesis" (the one to kill Hubris)Jul 25 08:45
oiaohmI guess he worked out the side I work on.Jul 25 08:47
oiaohmRobotics.Jul 25 08:47
Diablo-D3om nom nom hubrisJul 25 08:48
oiaohmSCADA in them is way different.Jul 25 08:48
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oiaohmhttp://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20090724/  << I love codeweavers sence of fun.Jul 25 08:53
oiaohmProjecting when there income will beat MS.Jul 25 08:56
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oiaohmHmm something funny is going on netcraft has not released a july web server surveyJul 25 09:06
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schestowitzoiaohm: maybe on breakJul 25 09:15
Diablo-D3netcraft confirms netcraft is dyingJul 25 09:15
oiaohmnetcraft normally never takes a break schestowitzJul 25 09:18
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schestowitzHm... something happened to the server...Jul 25 09:19
Diablo-D3and my joke slips by =/Jul 25 09:19
oiaohmIf it gets to the end of month without one it will be really strange.  Normally the latter in the month worse the report is.Jul 25 09:19
oiaohmFor MS.Jul 25 09:19
schestowitzWeird. It just froze there for a sec (BN)Jul 25 09:19
schestowitzoiaohm: you mean towards month's end?Jul 25 09:19
schestowitzI've been thinking about it an hour agoJul 25 09:20
schestowitzMicrosoft's next report will show another fall by a third or soJul 25 09:20
schestowitzThere have _no_ new productsJul 25 09:20
schestowitzWhat happened to Office 2009?Jul 25 09:20
schestowitzIs it Office 2010 now/Jul 25 09:20
oiaohmWhen the report is good for MS its out on the start of the month schestowitzJul 25 09:22
oiaohmWhen it bad it slips back latter in the month that as been normal for netcraft for a while.Jul 25 09:22
oiaohmThey only have 6 days left in the month to release the July web servey.Jul 25 09:23
oiaohmThat is really cutting it late.Jul 25 09:23
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schestowitzoiaohm: their stats are not reliableJul 25 09:35
schestowitzThe Chinese folks run circles around themJul 25 09:35
schestowitzAnd then there's the Microsoft follisJul 25 09:35
schestowitz*iesJul 25 09:35
schestowitzI used to think Netcraft meant much. Now I mostly ignore itJul 25 09:35
schestowitzHehe. Technorati has scientology.org commercialsJul 25 09:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Hit some high stats in the COLA figures released. A great newsgroup: comp.alt.linux.advocacy get yourself over to it! #xp #microsoft #linuxJul 25 10:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Just put some idea's to the Wolvix forum for the next release. Great distro, check it out http://www.wolvix.org #linux #wolvixJul 25 10:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] So its off to the village fete today (after I have got a new exhaust for the car) Maybe some Twitpics later???Jul 25 10:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] New slogan for my site: "Openbytes – The blog for people with a GNUtee beard!" now thats creative thinking! #linux #windows #microsoftJul 25 10:23
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] White House Bans Twitter? < http://ping.fm/XIZ1U >Jul 25 11:09
oiaohmschestowitz: I know there stats are not reliable but is really bad when they cannot been it.Jul 25 11:20
schestowitzThey can't change definitions nowJul 25 11:26
schestowitzIt would make figures no longer compatibleJul 25 11:26
schestowitzBasically, it's like someone reverse-engineered their encryptionJul 25 11:27
schestowitzIf they 'fix' it now, that would invalidate what it already out there (media rendered not playable)Jul 25 11:27
schestowitzBenchmarks are similarJul 25 11:27
benJImancj: Why have you commented out the irclog you posted?Jul 25 11:28
schestowitzCompanies can optimise specifically to ace benchmarks (e.g. acid tests, JavaScript speed)Jul 25 11:28
schestowitzThis makes the benchmarks less valuable and meaningfulJul 25 11:28
*schestowitz knows that benJIman and cj are here just to stir up roubleJul 25 11:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] EFF's new lawsuit, and how the NSA is into social networking < http://ping.fm/VhpaK >Jul 25 11:50
schestowitz"Leland Yee, the Senator who sponsored the twice-failed California gaming law, has filed an amicus brief in support of Governor Schwarzenegger's appeal to the Supreme Court. Violent video games are apparently a very pressing issue in California." http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/07/sensationalist-legal-brief-aims-to-revive-ca-game-law.arsJul 25 11:51
Guest123ofcourse get rid of video games and they might be able to pay their bills.Jul 25 11:53
ThistleWebnot if you work int he games industryJul 25 11:57
ThistleWebsince it's comparable in size to Hollywood, there's more than a handful of these peepsJul 25 11:57
ThistleWebso many of these conservative campaigns stem from the Church losing it's appeal to other pursuits. If the peeps don't come to Church, they can't be led, controlled and indoctrinated. Things like sale of alchahol on Sundays was brought in because working men preferred to get wasted on their day off, rather than get up and go to ChurchJul 25 12:00
ThistleWebtypical, target the effect, not the cause ie the Chucrh gets more and more irrelevant by the day, with more and more peeps seeing a discord between it's bile and discrimination and the modern world they live inJul 25 12:02
ThistleWebthe more they fail to draw into their sects by choice, the more they feel the need to get their small minded views enacted into law to enforce the peeps who didn't willingly accept themJul 25 12:03
ThistleWebthe moral minority, by proxyJul 25 12:04
ThistleWeb*ban on the sale of alcahol on SundaysJul 25 12:05
ThistleWebif working men can't buy booze, they will be sober and more mailable by their wives to get up and go to churchJul 25 12:05
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schestowitzAlcohol can helpJul 25 12:06
schestowitzMight calm people down in anticipation for a bingeJul 25 12:06
ThistleWebyeah, any time you have to spend time listeing to BS, it certainly canJul 25 12:06
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ThistleWebcareful not to slide off the pewJul 25 12:06
ThistleWeblolJul 25 12:06
schestowitzIt's like the effect of drugs in medicine (including forms of heavy drugs... not just for anesthetic)Jul 25 12:06
Guest123laws should not be bound by any particular or ANY religion for that matter.Jul 25 12:07
schestowitzActually, wasn't LSD developed for these purpose?Jul 25 12:07
schestowitz[Before it went outside the confinement of the few]Jul 25 12:07
schestowitzSame with booze and religion to an extentJul 25 12:07
schestowitzLet me show you a debate I've watched since yesterday...Jul 25 12:07
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShzphSB7E5A&NR=1Jul 25 12:08
schestowitzAround part 6 Hitchens claims that he doesn't want religion to go awayJul 25 12:08
schestowitzGuest123: laws are about moralityJul 25 12:08
ThistleWebplenty of campaigns from conservative groups are all about banning or limiting things peeps have chosen to do instead of going to church. They believe that by removing that pursuit, the peeps will naturally come back to the flock to be indoctrinated and controlledJul 25 12:08
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schestowitzLaws in some countries don't separate church and stateJul 25 12:08
Guest123yes, morality, not religionJul 25 12:08
schestowitzOr mosque and state or whatever for that matterJul 25 12:09
schestowitzBut still, you don't see people running around nakedJul 25 12:09
schestowitzThat's less to do with morality and more with traditionJul 25 12:09
Guest123thats because of morals, not religionJul 25 12:09
schestowitzIt works fine in some culturesJul 25 12:09
ThistleWebeven some countries who do supposedly separate church and state have some very permanant tiesJul 25 12:09
schestowitzOthers take the other extreme, which is that flesh need not be visible, esp. for womenJul 25 12:09
Guest123as well different cultures and countries have different morals as well.Jul 25 12:10
ThistleWebthere's also a huge difference between religion, faith and beliefJul 25 12:10
schestowitzImagine a culture where you have to dress up your cat :-DJul 25 12:10
Guest123yes,Jul 25 12:10
Guest123they exist, and dogs and cows,Jul 25 12:11
ThistleWebthe first is a man made organisation concerned with it's own man made rules and continuing the status quo using the excuse of "god's will"Jul 25 12:11
ThistleWeb"thou must wear a dress and accept a pringle"Jul 25 12:11
schestowitz"though shall redeem emacs virgins"Jul 25 12:11
Guest123which god, is the problem, and its hard to find anything not man made or natural.Jul 25 12:11
schestowitz*thouJul 25 12:11
ThistleWebyeah, if every nutter who attacks someone on the instructions of God is telling the truth, then God must be a sadist as he backs all sidesJul 25 12:12
ThistleWebof course, calling God himself to the witness stand is kinda difficultJul 25 12:13
ThistleWebeven the top peeps don't have a phone number for himJul 25 12:13
Guest123thats because they "are" him, if you ask them.Jul 25 12:13
oiaohmThe greatest trick the devil could produce is tricking everyone into believing the existance of a god.Jul 25 12:13
ThistleWebdespite claiming to commune regularly with him, they seem to keep forgetting to mention that "he bug guy, there's a lot of peeps here who doubt you exist, any chance you could put that to rest with an appearance?"Jul 25 12:14
ThistleWebbig*Jul 25 12:14
schestowitzMPs urge 'pay as you drive' to counter road tax scepticism < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jul/24/pay-as-you-drive-tax >Jul 25 12:15
ThistleWebmaybe a Q&A listing all the peeps who claimed to be killing in his name, "do you know this person?" "did you insturct him to strap a bomb to himself and visit a roadblock?"Jul 25 12:15
schestowitzI based it on evidence, ThistleWeb Jul 25 12:15
schestowitzI'll believe the other side... when I see proof of a so-called 'God'Jul 25 12:15
Guest123ofcourse, they have the answer for all that, if you are not a true believer you dont get to see him, bad luck.Jul 25 12:15
schestowitzUntil then I see people trying to mix science and magic to confuseJul 25 12:15
schestowitzSaying things like "God made the big bang"Jul 25 12:16
schestowitzWhich escapes the issues of who created this creator in the first placeJul 25 12:16
schestowitzAll of this is based on superstition from times when a wheelbarrow was considered "innovation"Jul 25 12:16
ThistleWebyeah, as Douglas Adams said "science and ideas are honed through debate, where any weak argument will be shot down quickly, but with any religion, it has so many holes that it'd be debunked in minutes.....yet it's immune from being questioned"Jul 25 12:17
Guest123or the big bang in the first place.Jul 25 12:17
schestowitzAnd books that got modified over thousands of years (broken telephone effect)Jul 25 12:17
schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, immune to questiningJul 25 12:17
schestowitzUsing words like "Sacred" and "blasphemy"Jul 25 12:17
schestowitzBut why not produce evidence?Jul 25 12:17
ThistleWebsad that Ireland now has legalised blashpemey a few days agoJul 25 12:18
oiaohmFaith is a part of human nature in many ways.Jul 25 12:18
schestowitzThat's like me saying you can't insult my football team because the FLying Spaghetti Monster blessed itJul 25 12:18
ThistleWebsome peeps are hell bent on taking their communities backwardsJul 25 12:18
oiaohmYou lend people items at times on blind faith in them.Jul 25 12:18
schestowitzWhoa. Weird stuff in the Vista Sucks blogJul 25 12:19
schestowitzIt's like it turned into a VIsta7 marketing blogJul 25 12:19
ThistleWebwhen someone's life is shit, every day with all sorts of man made hardships, they turn to faith that in the next life they will be rewarded, if they only obey the preacherJul 25 12:19
schestowitzI have no explanation for itJul 25 12:19
schestowitzUnsubscribedJul 25 12:19
ThistleWebit's a welcoming promise, even if it's BSJul 25 12:19
schestowitzhttp://www.allgambian.net/NewsDetails.aspx?id=53 (AFRICA: Food production to halve by 20200Jul 25 12:19
ThistleWebhence poverty and hardship are ideal recruiting grounds for all sorts of religious fanaticsJul 25 12:20
schestowitzThese are based on national issuesJul 25 12:20
schestowitzReligions are often not the problemJul 25 12:20
oiaohmBuddhist not so much ThistleWebJul 25 12:20
schestowitzNational problems are only justified and tackled using religion as a settingJul 25 12:20
ThistleWeboiaohm: yeah Buddhism does seem to be more peacefull and accepting than the othersJul 25 12:21
schestowitzBiggest atrocities are in Congo... not related to religionJul 25 12:21
oiaohmUnder Buddhist its optional to believe in gods.Jul 25 12:21
schestowitzSocio-economic issues drive fanaticism like 9/11Jul 25 12:21
oiaohmThey follow the core of take resonsablity for your actions.Jul 25 12:21
Guest123biggest attrocities was the inquisition, and that was religiousJul 25 12:21
schestowitzIn partJul 25 12:22
schestowitzNarrow world viewJul 25 12:22
oiaohmNo such thing as just asking for forgiveness under Buddhists you deserve it.Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzCompeting beliefsJul 25 12:22
oiaohminquisition is funny.Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzNaJul 25 12:22
oiaohmThe bible forbids killing.Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzNopeJul 25 12:22
schestowitzIt encourages itJul 25 12:22
oiaohmYet the inquisition did hell load of it.Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzProvided it's the 'Bad Guy'Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzWhere bad can be "gentile", "gay", whatever...Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzBible is a very genocidal bookJul 25 12:22
oiaohmThe pure bible never directly supports killing.Jul 25 12:22
schestowitzEsp. Old TestamentJul 25 12:22
Guest123who what that guy, that killed that other guy in the bible, ,oh yea, Moses.Jul 25 12:22
oiaohmNew testment.Jul 25 12:23
Guest123why, because the other guy hit a slave.Jul 25 12:23
oiaohmThat was been used in the inquisition.Jul 25 12:23
schestowitzRemember the idea of Noah's arcJul 25 12:23
schestowitzBasically, 'God' wipes all human kind for being evilJul 25 12:23
oiaohmThat is what is wrong about lots of these so called religion caused problems.Jul 25 12:23
Guest123capital punishment for punching someone, and that was the profit Moses you remember him from the bible, the one that got the 10 commandments.Jul 25 12:23
oiaohmMiss translation schestowitzJul 25 12:23
schestowitzBut if s/he controls them all, why make them evil int he first place and then drown them?Jul 25 12:23
schestowitzThat's masochisticJul 25 12:24
Guest123I wonder why god wanted to tell moses "thou shallt not KILL".Jul 25 12:24
Guest123Unless its his own son.Jul 25 12:24
oiaohmYep 10 commandments.Jul 25 12:24
oiaohmRules that should over ride all actions.Jul 25 12:24
oiaohmRules with no execeptions.Jul 25 12:24
schestowitzHehe. 10 rulesJul 25 12:24
schestowitzSo what happened before them?Jul 25 12:24
Guest123which 10 commandments ?? do you refer too ??Jul 25 12:25
schestowitzDid people kill and rape everyone?Jul 25 12:25
schestowitzNo?Jul 25 12:25
ThistleWebis it the Catholics who believe we're all born sinners and have to live live by all sorts of rituals to clense?Jul 25 12:25
oiaohmA bit.Jul 25 12:25
schestowitzAnd if not, does it not show that morality come from within?Jul 25 12:25
schestowitzCOmpassion and all?Jul 25 12:25
schestowitzThistleWeb: so born to be guiltyJul 25 12:25
ThistleWebyepJul 25 12:25
oiaohmThou shallt not kill exists in most rellitions under differnet wordings.Jul 25 12:25
schestowitzANd to prayJul 25 12:25
ThistleWebif that's the case, then no matter what I do, I'm going to hell, so I may as well enjoy itJul 25 12:26
oiaohmYet extreamists love disobeying it.Jul 25 12:26
schestowitzTo pray for someone whose universe is like 10^10000000000000~ bigger than usJul 25 12:26
schestowitzWe sure get A LOT of attention for the small planet that we are !! :-)Jul 25 12:26
ThistleWebanyone seen the George Carlin - Religion Is Bullshit clip on youtube?Jul 25 12:26
Guest123you know there is more than 1 version of the 10 commandments, one is duteronomy and there are 2 others, so which one do you refer to :)Jul 25 12:27
oiaohmIf everyone following a religion followed it correctly there would be less problems.Jul 25 12:27
schestowitzBut it gets modifiedJul 25 12:27
oiaohmWhy do all religions have thou shall not kill.Jul 25 12:27
schestowitzFor example, how many people harmonise with evolution now?Jul 25 12:27
schestowitzHow many believe Earth is 6000 years old?Jul 25 12:28
schestowitzHow many people would stone a gay person?Jul 25 12:28
schestowitzSOme still assassinate abortionists.Jul 25 12:28
oiaohmBecause if you have shall kill you will not have a population for long.Jul 25 12:28
oiaohmSo every religion with shall kill disappears sooner or latter threw self caused destruction.Jul 25 12:29
ThistleWebI would stone a gay person, or a straight person...in fact I've gotten stoned with a lot of people over the years without even wondering who they like in the sack, as long as they roll a good joint and can have a laugh, they're cool by meJul 25 12:29
ThistleWebalthough I;m guessing it's a different meaning of "stone"Jul 25 12:29
Guest123everyone knows religion is a money making scheme and a way to subdue and control the populusJul 25 12:29
schestowitzhttp://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/07/22/mass_graves/index.htmlJul 25 12:30
ThistleWebGuest123: not everyoneJul 25 12:30
ThistleWebpeeps still fall for itJul 25 12:30
oiaohmThat is the issue with reading old documents ThistleWeb.  Meanings of words change.Jul 25 12:30
Guest123yes, sorry not everyone thats rightJul 25 12:30
oiaohmBest is the define world.Jul 25 12:30
oiaohmSmallest valid define is as far as you can see.Jul 25 12:30
Guest123all drug takers should be stonedJul 25 12:30
ThistleWebif they knew, it'd make them REAL stupid, best weeded out of the gene pool before they can breedJul 25 12:30
oiaohmStory of the flood in the bible does not sound that great if you take the smallest valid define of world.Jul 25 12:31
oiaohmAnd the size ship is right.Jul 25 12:31
oiaohmFor a world that size.Jul 25 12:31
ThistleWebjudging by some people's actions though, it does make you wonder if you're seeing living, breathing proof that someone somewhere pissed in the gene poolJul 25 12:31
Guest123noah's flood was the first example of copyright theft :)Jul 25 12:31
ThistleWebGuest123: every dope smoker should be stoned, or be given a refund on bad weedJul 25 12:32
Guest123its word for word from another bood.Jul 25 12:32
Guest123ThistleWeb, yes, :)Jul 25 12:32
Guest123boook.Jul 25 12:32
schestowitzHamlet tooJul 25 12:33
schestowitzBack then it was common to do mashupJul 25 12:33
schestowitzYou read and you seam together bits you likeJul 25 12:33
Guest123im trying to think of the title of the book,Jul 25 12:33
schestowitzMass publishing did not really exist before GutenbergJul 25 12:33
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schestowitzYou could perform and you could pass stories by scrolls and word of mouthJul 25 12:34
schestowitzWhen copying stories by hand you could make your own rendition on the flyJul 25 12:34
schestowitz[Since you do it manually anyway]Jul 25 12:34
schestowitzWhat people write is still the product of what they read and blend togetherJul 25 12:34
schestowitzEverything from choice of words to ideasJul 25 12:34
schestowitz"You are what you eat"Jul 25 12:35
ThistleWebfor a long time (compared to modern history) the only peeps who could read or write were the eliteJul 25 12:35
ThistleWebeven the bible was in latinJul 25 12:35
schestowitz"You write what you read"Jul 25 12:35
ThistleWebso you needed an official preist to interpret (and put their spin on) what it heldJul 25 12:35
ThistleWebwhen the Queen (cant remember who) wanted peeps to be able to read the bible in English, the church was outragedJul 25 12:36
ThistleWebit removed a layer of their control over their flockJul 25 12:36
ThistleWebas far as stories are concerned, there are no totally new storiesJul 25 12:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Someone called Nicholas Kolakowski carried on in Microsoft Watch.Jul 25 12:37
ThistleWebeverything is influenced by other stuff, with a new angle, or perspective mixed with another ideaJul 25 12:37
ThistleWebnot just storiesJul 25 12:37
Guest123gilgamesh thats rightJul 25 12:37
ThistleWebwhen you see that, and understand it, it grates to see hefty copyright / IP claims on evolutions of ideas, not totally new ideasJul 25 12:38
ThistleWebstar wars was a blend of a lot of classic stories and characters, with the only twist being that it's set in spaceJul 25 12:39
ThistleWebthe twist was new, but not the component partsJul 25 12:40
Guest123star wars was a modern day pirate movie, but its still star wars and its what it is, its copyrighted and it cost alot of money to make, money the copyright protect,Jul 25 12:42
ThistleWebevery story is a new take or combination on something(s) done before in a way that feels newJul 25 12:43
ThistleWebin every mediumJul 25 12:43
Guest123thats right, they all use words and actions and things, there is aJul 25 12:44
ThistleWebeverything has an inspiration, either conscious or subconsciousJul 25 12:44
schestowitzhttp://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/07/time-to-share-wealth.html (Time to Share the Wealth)Jul 25 12:44
Diablo-D3schestowitz: what is your time zoneJul 25 12:45
ThistleWebthe bad stortytellers dont have a unique way of expressing that insperation and end up plagerising their muse in their own wordsJul 25 12:45
ThistleWebthe good ones are held as artists who offer something newJul 25 12:45
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Jul 25 12:45
*schestowitz is at GMTJul 25 12:46
Guest123plagerising "in their own words" eh :)Jul 25 12:46
ThistleWebGuest123: I mean a rip off, but done in their own wordsJul 25 12:46
ThistleWebwhere the story is all but the same, with few changes. Written honestly but with no imaginationJul 25 12:47
Guest123ok what was star wars "all but the same" as ?Jul 25 12:47
ThistleWeblike writing a book where a female witch finds she's the chosen one, and goes to a school for witchesJul 25 12:48
ThistleWebbascily, harry potter with a female leadJul 25 12:48
ThistleWebwith star wars, it's the character types who were all well established, the crazy old man, the pirate, the princess etcJul 25 12:50
ThistleWebrescue the princessJul 25 12:50
ThistleWebsave the base from destructionJul 25 12:50
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ThistleWebrebuild in hidingJul 25 12:51
Guest123and that is "all but the same as " what ?Jul 25 12:51
ThistleWeb"rescue the princess" has been done a million times in a million ways, starting with fairytalesJul 25 12:51
ThistleWebbut not set in space, until star wareJul 25 12:52
ThistleWebwars*Jul 25 12:52
Guest123the rescue the princess in star wars was a very small sub-plot at best, its still not saying what Star wars is all but the same as?Jul 25 12:52
Guest123sure there are lots of rescue to princess movies, (not that i can think of ANY  right now,, ,can you ?)Jul 25 12:53
ThistleWebit was the first half of ep4 yesJul 25 12:53
ThistleWebit was part of the storyJul 25 12:53
ThistleWeba componentJul 25 12:54
ThistleWeblike the others, cherry picked and moulded into a new storyJul 25 12:54
ThistleWebif that'd been the whole movie peeps would have noticed it was an obvious plotJul 25 12:54
ThistleWebnot just movies, stories in general, regardless of their mediumJul 25 12:55
Guest123I still do see any movie or book that is "all but the same as" anything like star wars.Jul 25 12:56
ThistleWebthe point is that all stories are inspired by others, but with new twists or angles, even combining 2 ideas nobody has thought to combine beforeJul 25 12:56
ThistleWeb"all but the same as" refers to the compnents, not the overall story, that's what I'm trying to explainJul 25 12:57
ThistleWebthe princess is a well used charJul 25 12:57
ThistleWebthe wise old man tooJul 25 12:57
ThistleWebthe pirateJul 25 12:57
ThistleWebthe hero with a swordJul 25 12:58
ThistleWebthese are all very well worn componentsJul 25 12:58
schestowitzMicrosoft desperately look for new ways of making money.. this time selling PCs: http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Report_Is_this_the_first_look_inside_the_Microsoft_store_experience51643372.htmlJul 25 12:58
ThistleWebjoined together in a story, set in spaceJul 25 12:58
ThistleWebplenty of ghost stories, or magic stories but none until harry potter thought about having a school for magic, with ghosts as part of the regular staffJul 25 12:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] EA holds "Harass a Booth Babe" contest http://bit.ly/q0SHV WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE WRONG WITH THIS GREAT IDEAJul 25 13:00
Guest123yes, I know, and all great books are made of component words, movies are made of component characters, people, times, places, actions, things and so on, like saying Star wars was based on world war 1 or 2 or whatever, things happen and they are stylised and acted out in movies and books and so on.Jul 25 13:00
ThistleWebexactly, so nothing is new. It's all inspired from something, twisted into a new telling or angleJul 25 13:01
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Guest123lots of things are new, new things happen all the time.Jul 25 13:01
ThistleWebyes, new mashups of other ideasJul 25 13:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] If anyone ever tells you #wikipedia is "too deletionist": http://is.gd/1LXnU (HT @mike_peel)Jul 25 13:02
Guest123you can create a new peice of music, it can be based on common scales, rythems, notes and progressions but it can be unique as well.Jul 25 13:02
ThistleWebwhen entertainment peeps whine about their "unique creations" needing to be protected from others copying them, they don't seem to get that it's not that unique, it's just their twist on stuff already in existenceJul 25 13:03
Guest123still uniqueJul 25 13:03
ThistleWebpeeps will be inspired by their work, just as they were inspired by others to create itJul 25 13:03
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: you know what?Jul 25 13:04
ThistleWebwhich is why CC seems like a very apt licenceJul 25 13:04
Diablo-D3I intend on making a movie thats a rip off of all movies ever...Jul 25 13:04
Diablo-D3and in a mind blowing moveJul 25 13:05
ThistleWebgo for it, you wont be the first with that ideaJul 25 13:05
Diablo-D3make DRM so strong you can only buy the disc, you cant ever watch itJul 25 13:05
ThistleWebplenty of spoofs exist from that very ideaJul 25 13:05
ThistleWebsome better than othersJul 25 13:05
ThistleWebthe difference with a spoof is they WANT the references to be noticedJul 25 13:06
ThistleWebthey twist comedy into themJul 25 13:06
Diablo-D3nope, no comedyJul 25 13:06
Diablo-D3in fact, I may not even film anythingJul 25 13:06
ThistleWeband bank on the recognition of the originalJul 25 13:06
Diablo-D3its just going to be random scenes from other moviesJul 25 13:06
Diablo-D3randomly cutJul 25 13:06
ThistleWebthat's easy to do on a Mac I hear, so it shouldn't take you too longJul 25 13:07
Diablo-D3man, I could be rich doing thisJul 25 13:07
Diablo-D3since no one can watch it, they cant sue me for copyright infringementJul 25 13:07
ThistleWebwho said anything about the ability to watch it? if money changes hands it countsJul 25 13:07
Diablo-D3but they cant prove itJul 25 13:08
Diablo-D3in fact, I may just cat /dev/urandom into the discJul 25 13:08
ThistleWeblolJul 25 13:08
Diablo-D3and just _say_ I have shit on itJul 25 13:08
Diablo-D3THIS PLAN IS BRILLIANTJul 25 13:09
ThistleWeband in the reality you live in, people will actually give you money for this?Jul 25 13:09
ThistleWeblet alone enough money to make you richJul 25 13:09
ThistleWeblolJul 25 13:09
Diablo-D3if I wear black, grow a goatee, and fake a french accentJul 25 13:09
Diablo-D3it will workJul 25 13:09
Diablo-D3people _are_ that stupidJul 25 13:09
Guest123for you to really make the big money you need to give it away for free :)Jul 25 13:10
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: I mean, look at the whacko that had bags of trash as artJul 25 13:10
ThistleWebyeah, people are stupid, but they need to be convinced it's a good dealJul 25 13:10
Diablo-D3or the people who paid a shitload of money for paintings done by elephants (while being told they were done by some famous non-existant artist)Jul 25 13:10
ThistleWebanyhoo, we appear to be derailing the IRC, sorry schestowitzJul 25 13:11
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Phoronix looks for help keeping the site going. http://ping.fm/NRuotJul 25 13:27
schestowitzAgain: Microsoft's next operating system may start from BSD http://www.advogato.org/article/1013.htmlJul 25 13:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Phoronix (Linux hardware site) needs $$$ http://ping.fm/NRuotJul 25 13:33
oiaohmHistory of BSD and Linux GPL is a nasty one.Jul 25 13:35
schestowitzhttp://blogs.law.harvard.edu/doc/2009/07/21/a-jovian-black-eye/Jul 25 13:36
Guest123thats a big hole,Jul 25 13:38
trmancohttp://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20090724/Jul 25 13:42
trmancoLOOLJul 25 13:42
trmancosee the videoJul 25 13:42
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_GoblinHello all.Jul 25 13:49
schestowitz_Goblin: MS Watch is backJul 25 13:49
_Goblin? LOL.....Jul 25 13:50
schestowitzANd my DNS server is SOOOOOOOOOO laggyJul 25 13:50
_GoblinI wonder if Andre knows....Jul 25 13:50
_Goblin:(Jul 25 13:50
schestowitzI'll sod off in a moment unless it picks up speedJul 25 13:50
schestowitz_Goblin: nobody knowsJul 25 13:50
schestowitzNo comments thereJul 25 13:50
schestowitzRSS feed just been updatedJul 25 13:50
schestowitzThe new guy is not competent from what I've seenJul 25 13:50
schestowitzJust another MS PR repJul 25 13:50
schestowitzLike the one in Seattle P-IJul 25 13:51
_GoblinNicholas KolakowskiJul 25 13:51
schestowitzThe DNS server here is painfully slow since hal;f an hour agoJul 25 13:51
schestowitzI'm gonna go for a few hoursJul 25 13:51
_GoblinI would put money on a mentioning of something other than MS will get them crawling out of the woodworkJul 25 13:51
_Goblinok mate, see you laterJul 25 13:52
schestowitz"...an article that was brought to my attention by blade206 that was posted two months ago by Roy Schestowitz stating how Microsoft is still operating at a loss." http://www.gamekicker.com/Xbox-360/Will-Microsoft-Introduce-A-New-Console-Next-GenerationJul 25 13:53
trmancoschestowitz, change to opendnsJul 25 13:53
schestowitztrmanco: naaa..Jul 25 13:53
schestowitzDouble-spyingJul 25 13:53
trmancoon what?Jul 25 13:53
schestowitzhttp://www.gamesonsmash.com/?p=8164Jul 25 13:53
schestowitzBN cited on XBox matters tooJul 25 13:54
schestowitztrmanco: pages visitedJul 25 13:54
schestowitzThere's also Google, Alexa, Netcraft..Jul 25 13:54
trmancono big dealJul 25 13:54
schestowitzbblJul 25 13:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] #Microsoft Watch is back up! Lets see if it returns to its former glory under Joe Wilcox. So far comments == 0. #linux #microsoftJul 25 14:02
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oiaohmhttp://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/07/plasma-in-kde-44.html  KDE 4.4 plans are a interesting read.Jul 25 14:32
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Diablo-D3http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/LREBOIPSqFU/Network-Solutions-Suffers-Massive-Data-BreachJul 25 15:43
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schestowitzIt's a good thing I have nuttin' to do with Network SolutionsJul 25 16:02
schestowitzThis would stain them for goodJul 25 16:02
Diablo-D3schestowitz: uh, hello?Jul 25 16:03
Diablo-D3they've been stained for good since the dawn of the internetJul 25 16:03
schestowitzNetwork No-lussionJul 25 16:05
Diablo-D3Network Final Solution amiriteJul 25 16:05
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schestowitzI've shifted to opendns nowJul 25 16:17
schestowitzMuch better. The Windows zombies must be hammering on DNS here or somethingJul 25 16:17
schestowitzDestroying beauty because you can afford it < http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/07/destroying_beauty_because_you.php >Jul 25 16:18
trmancoschestowitz, :-PJul 25 16:27
schestowitz"Everyone wants to know how my month offline was. They ask it casually, like “How’s work going?” or “What’d you do this weekend?” But it’s not a casual question. It was a huge, incredible, transformative experience. Those 30 days felt like six months." http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/offline2Jul 25 16:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Russia may ban Skype - shocka http://ping.fm/vCiqNJul 25 16:36
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schestowitzhttp://spittoon.23andme.com/2009/07/24/direct-genetic-link-between-australia-and-india-provides-new-insight-into-the-origins-of-australian-aborigines/Jul 25 16:40
schestowitzLet's look at some MSFT news. This week it should be fun.Jul 25 16:41
twitterNYT notices that the US Cellphone market is craven, greedy, anticompetitive and suck.  http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/07/25/1438217/The-Irksome-Cellphone-IndustryJul 25 16:42
schestowitzYahoo!-Microsoft Pact: Alive Again? < http://online.barrons.com/article/SB124847524170080159.html?ru=yahoo#mod=yahoobarrons >Jul 25 16:44
schestowitzUS cellphone market = shared monopolyJul 25 16:44
schestowitzCartel/collusion/price-fixingJul 25 16:44
schestowitz"Don't give it too cheap, we won't either..."Jul 25 16:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "It's nice of Bill to make these available in a Microsoft-only video format" < http://ping.fm/LxzNT >Jul 25 16:45
schestowitzMicrosoft respond to Obama’s request to ‘put away the Xbox’ http://www.beefjack.com/blog/news/360/microsoft-respond-obamas-request-put-xbox/Jul 25 16:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz i'm sure banning it will work just fine and no-one will ever use voice over ip againJul 25 16:47
schestowitzYahoo profit rises. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Yahoo-2Q-profit-rises-8-pct-apf-1808658808.html?x=0&.v=23Jul 25 16:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Freda fanclub pics: F on her new chair! http://twitpic.com/bkllu http://twitpic.com/bkm12 http://twitpic.com/bklt7Jul 25 16:48
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/submission/1044751/Helios-Shares-the-WealthJul 25 16:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Our DNS server here has been down on its knees for over 3 hours now (maybe Windows zombies). Must use OpenDNS *sigh*...Jul 25 16:49
twitterI think the correct term is collective oligarchy -> schestowitz: US cellphone market = shared monopolyJul 25 16:49
twitterINGSOCJul 25 16:49
twitterIgnorance is strength.Jul 25 16:50
schestowitzYahoo shares recover following weak earnings report http://www.marketwatch.com/story/yahoo-shares-drop-on-weak-forecast?siteid=yhoofJul 25 16:50
schestowitzYahoo! still disappointsJul 25 16:50
schestowitzThere the old Yahoo, which should have sued Microsoft for aggravationJul 25 16:51
schestowitzThen there's the new one that Microsoft sort of took overJul 25 16:51
twitterI think every tech company but M$ is doing well right now.Jul 25 16:51
twitterHere's an interesting image I found on Wikipedia last night http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Crossroads_Able_Goats.jpgJul 25 16:51
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schestowitztwitter: rejoice the success of the 'Free market'Jul 25 16:52
schestowitzBow to the Invisible HandJul 25 16:52
schestowitzAnd come to realise that political scientist will humbly say that the US was never a democracy and neither was industryJul 25 16:52
schestowitzIt's run for the responsible men, since inceptionJul 25 16:52
twitterGovernment monopoly guided free hand must be better than real free market.  I love big brother.Jul 25 16:53
schestowitzThe industry is run for the Big Blues and ExxonsJul 25 16:53
twitterCleptocracyJul 25 16:53
twitterPeers of Exxon.  Lords of International Business Machines.  Bow.Jul 25 16:54
twitterkowtowJul 25 16:54
schestowitzThe press fails to capture the Yahoo! storyJul 25 16:54
schestowitzIt's frustrating that they fail to see or say what Microsoft did thereJul 25 16:54
schestowitzThey peels off the skin firstJul 25 16:55
schestowitzWaiting to eat the preyJul 25 16:55
schestowitz*eeledJul 25 16:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard As the saying goes, in Soviet Russia, Sykpe bans governmentJul 25 16:56
schestowitzVMware profits down, but shares u[Jul 25 16:57
schestowitz*upJul 25 16:57
schestowitzRed Hat, IBM, GOOG all upJul 25 16:58
schestowitzApple up too of courseJul 25 16:59
schestowitzCIT to Shrink to Avoid Bankruptcy Court < http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124818532000868603.html?ru=yahoo#mod=yahoo_hs >Jul 25 16:59
twitterThe CIT story is bad news.Jul 25 17:03
twittermore fraud fall out.Jul 25 17:03
schestowitzGood news: XBox is drowning.Jul 25 17:03
schestowitz"The EDD division's quarterly loss overall was $130 million, slightly decreased compared to a $171 million loss in the same quarter, a year prior." http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=24561Jul 25 17:03
schestowitzRevenue down by 25%Jul 25 17:03
twitterYahoo was killed when M$ blocked the Yahoo Google rescue.Jul 25 17:03
schestowitzIt used to be profitable for a while, not it loses moneyJul 25 17:03
schestowitzYes, that GOogle deal tooJul 25 17:04
schestowitzMicrosoft used the strings at DOJJul 25 17:04
schestowitzNow it wants the very same type of dealJul 25 17:04
schestowitzWait. Fraud at CIT?Jul 25 17:04
schestowitzI missed thatJul 25 17:04
schestowitzOr fallout from other frauds?Jul 25 17:05
twitterother fraudJul 25 17:05
twittergeneral, pervasive banking and investment fraud.Jul 25 17:05
schestowitzSome other fraudsters seem to have committed suicideJul 25 17:05
schestowitzI truly wonder sometimes what the suicide curves look like these daysJul 25 17:05
twitterI'd think it looks like murder.Jul 25 17:06
schestowitzMany people loses houses and go under great pressure. One FOSS guy killed himself some days agoJul 25 17:06
schestowitzI know him by name onlyJul 25 17:06
schestowitzHe left a wife and kidsJul 25 17:06
schestowitztwitter: Yes, sometimes it looks like they are suicidedJul 25 17:06
twitterI do not understand suicide.Jul 25 17:06
schestowitzFor things they may knowJul 25 17:06
twitteras the blog of helios shows, the joy of life is not in material things.Jul 25 17:07
schestowitzI can understand suicide int he euthanasia sense. If PHYSICAL suffering is too greatJul 25 17:07
schestowitzOr if chances of survival become slim anywayJul 25 17:07
schestowitzTo ruin perfectly-fine bodies for psychological burden makes no senseJul 25 17:08
schestowitzThen you have the embryo conundrumJul 25 17:08
schestowitzTHe whole thing about when life really begins and endsJul 25 17:08
schestowitzWe kill mature animals allt he timeJul 25 17:08
schestowitzEven calf or deersJul 25 17:09
schestowitzHelios enjoys life more than most peopleJul 25 17:09
twitteryesJul 25 17:09
schestowitzHe's there with kids... and fighting cancer sadlyJul 25 17:09
twittercancer is sad whenever people get it.Jul 25 17:09
schestowitzI lost two family members to it in the past decadeJul 25 17:10
schestowitzBut it's not an illness in the usual senseJul 25 17:10
schestowitzCellular issueJul 25 17:10
schestowitzWe can reduce probability of itJul 25 17:10
schestowitzRadiation and all...Jul 25 17:10
twitterSmoking, diet, pollution.Jul 25 17:11
schestowitzIllness is more of a bacterial issue. Biological outside one's own growth.Jul 25 17:11
schestowitzHad Helios (Ken) been wealthier he would probably be in good shape nowJul 25 17:11
schestowitzUS healthcare is criminally broken Jul 25 17:11
twitteryesJul 25 17:12
twitterdisease - An alteration in the state of the body or of some of its organs, interrupting or disturbing the performance of the vital functions, and causing or threatening pain and weaknessJul 25 17:13
twitter[1913 Webster]Jul 25 17:13
schestowitzA friend of mine wants to built a live USB Ubuntu..Jul 25 17:13
schestowitzHas anyone done this?Jul 25 17:13
twitterI'm sureJul 25 17:14
schestowitzI swear I never did it. Has anyone tried PCLinuxOS? I was gonna make last month.Jul 25 17:14
schestowitzIt can't be hard to make live USB keysJul 25 17:14
twitterany distribution will work on USB if you simply change boot and fstabJul 25 17:14
schestowitzThey must be a lot faster than Live CD (access speed/latency)Jul 25 17:14
schestowitzThere are many howtos out thereJul 25 17:15
schestowitzMy friend wanted me to build him oneJul 25 17:15
schestowitzHe should be able to sort one out with an howtoJul 25 17:15
twitterthe fastest are distributions like Puppy, which load completely into RAM.Jul 25 17:15
twitterMost distributions already have USB key versions.Jul 25 17:15
twitterdistrowatch sells them pre loaded.Jul 25 17:15
twitteror an advertiser does.Jul 25 17:16
twitterI posted it here a few days ago.Jul 25 17:16
schestowitzOh my god...Jul 25 17:16
schestowitzNo headline at all about Vista this weekJul 25 17:16
schestowitzNoneJul 25 17:16
twitterha haJul 25 17:16
schestowitzAmong 800 headlinesJul 25 17:16
schestowitz"Dows 7" => 28 matchesJul 25 17:16
schestowitzV4p0rv4r3Jul 25 17:16
schestowitzRTM intended to obscure bad resultsJul 25 17:17
schestowitzChange the subject of coversationJul 25 17:17
twitterseems to be spin about it, Roy, http://news.google.com/news?um=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=VistaJul 25 17:17
twitterdon't be blindsided.Jul 25 17:17
schestowitzYou know somehting..?Jul 25 17:18
schestowitzVista RTM generated TONS more buzzJul 25 17:18
schestowitzMaybe it's because it wasn't summerJul 25 17:18
schestowitzBut STILL...Jul 25 17:18
schestowitzTHis RTM met lackluster receptionJul 25 17:18
twitterForrester pushing bullshit here http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/forrester-vista-and-mac-os-gaining-in-the-enterprise.arsJul 25 17:18
schestowitzI remember Vista RTMJul 25 17:18
schestowitzForrester=anti Linux/FOSSJul 25 17:18
schestowitzMicrosoft pays themJul 25 17:18
schestowitzAlso IDCJul 25 17:18
schestowitzThe usual 'Vista 7 to boost eonomy nonsense"Jul 25 17:19
twitterWith release of Vista7, Vista will be pushed on idiot businesses as "stable" or something dumb like that.Jul 25 17:19
schestowitzThey can take the VIsta report and just change names and numbers, republish"Jul 25 17:19
schestowitzThey likely doJul 25 17:19
schestowitzVista 7 is not even SP1Jul 25 17:19
schestowitzIt's unreliableJul 25 17:19
schestowitzIt was RTMed prematurelyJul 25 17:19
schestowitzAs usualJul 25 17:19
twitter98, NT, 2000, XP, Vista, Vista7Jul 25 17:19
schestowitzWait until the /real-life' storiesJul 25 17:19
schestowitzDick and Harry putting it on a 2Ghz PCJul 25 17:20
schestowitzSince core..Jul 25 17:20
schestowitzSingleJul 25 17:20
Guest123he's saying xp is being pushed out by vista, that is my experience as wellJul 25 17:20
schestowitzGoing back to XPJul 25 17:20
schestowitzOr shouting at the slowness when they try to virtualise XP on Vista7Jul 25 17:20
twitterYou have to love the image Ars used.  http://static.arstechnica.com/vista_small.pngJul 25 17:21
schestowitzI see just many advertisements disguised as articles about Vista 7Jul 25 17:21
schestowitzIOW, same old stuffJul 25 17:21
twitterIt reminds me of Beck lyrics, "a giant dildo crushing the sun"Jul 25 17:21
schestowitzMany journos never even ran the thingJul 25 17:21
twitterLet me dig up the big journalist "vista sucks log"  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/192990Jul 25 17:23
twitterIt is still a minority of suckers who run Vista.Jul 25 17:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Even the Daily Mail's commenters think the paper's gone a step too tasteless http://is.gd/1MdEF (warning: Daily Mail)Jul 25 17:24
twitterDespite nearly three years of people not being able to buy computers with anything but Vista, nearly no one uses it.Jul 25 17:25
twitterYou can say Vista is pushing XP out, but it would be more correct to say that GNU/Linux or OSX has done the same.Jul 25 17:25
twitterI'm sure there are more GNU/Linux users in the world than there are Vista users.Jul 25 17:26
Guest123really ? !!!Jul 25 17:27
twitteryeah, really.Jul 25 17:27
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schestowitzThe same lies from IDC about Microsoft 'saving' the economy: http://www.bnamericas.com/news/technology/Microsoft_expects_partners_to_generate_over_US*20_per_dollar_of_Windows_7_salesJul 25 17:28
schestowitzNo word about the impact of LinuxJul 25 17:28
twitterI run into GNU/Linux people all the time in public places but almost never see Vista.Jul 25 17:28
schestowitzThese analysts should be shunnedJul 25 17:28
schestowitzThey are advertising companiesJul 25 17:29
schestowitzHardly even hiding itJul 25 17:29
trmancohttp://www.lukesurl.com/archives/916Jul 25 17:29
twitterGNU/Linux use is much higher outside of the English speaking world.Jul 25 17:29
twitteranyway, my point was that despite nearly unanimous press apology and rejection of Vista, they still echo M$ friendly bullshit and there's a constant drizzle of Vista stories in the news.Jul 25 17:30
schestowitztrmanco: LOLJul 25 17:32
fewaROFLJul 25 17:32
twitterStudies done a few weeks ago showed that all but a tiny minority of businesses were going to skip vista7.Jul 25 17:32
twitterthe Ars article is damage controlJul 25 17:32
twitterbut there's lots more damage where that came from.Jul 25 17:32
schestowitzLots of money at stakeJul 25 17:33
schestowitzSee what happened to BNJul 25 17:33
schestowitzIt said thisJul 25 17:33
twitterVista7 capable is a predictable sham http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/169037/free_windows_7_upgrade_may_not_reach_298_laptop_buyers.htmlJul 25 17:33
schestowitzSo a Microsoft TE secretly came to spin itJul 25 17:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why it's useful to know IRC abbreviations. http://ping.fm/rm5ciJul 25 17:33
schestowitzLater it did a while smear job on BN, after a complaint was put with the FTCJul 25 17:33
schestowitzMicrosoft PR: http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/microsoft-maintains-openness-push-539Jul 25 17:36
twittera dear Vista letter.  http://www.pcworld.com/article/168938/dear_vista_its_time_to_part_ways.htmlJul 25 17:36
twitterdoes not mention gnu/linuxJul 25 17:36
twitterPCWorld slams M$'s bad attitude http://www.pcworld.com/article/169030/redmonds_bad_attitude_brings_bad_earnings.htmlJul 25 17:37
twitter->   Microsoft had not cut spending by $3 billion more than it had forecast last year.Jul 25 17:39
fewaIts in take over stageJul 25 17:39
twitterbetter quote ->  the profit picture would have been even worse if Microsoft had not cut spending by $3 billion more than it had forecast last year. The savings came at the expense of thousands of laid-off Microsofties.Jul 25 17:39
twitterOuch!Jul 25 17:39
Guest123Not the companies you want in the same headline: "Red Hat, Chevron: Money Flow Leaders (RHT, CVX) "Jul 25 17:42
schestowitzDon't link to Bill SnyderJul 25 17:42
schestowitzHe's a Microsoft trollJul 25 17:42
schestowitzAnd investorJul 25 17:42
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/03/bill-snyder-agent-provocateur/Jul 25 17:43
schestowitzMany Vista eulogies are just Vista7 adsJul 25 17:44
fewayepJul 25 17:44
fewaevangalismJul 25 17:44
schestowitzTry to find analysis that show this for what it is --  dead end  for WIndows codebaseJul 25 17:44
schestowitzVista 7 is lots of PEJul 25 17:44
schestowitz*PRJul 25 17:44
schestowitzAnd TEsJul 25 17:44
fewain face oftough competition, evangalism of $NEXT_VERSION start immeditelyJul 25 17:44
schestowitzVista was more hyped up than Vista 7Jul 25 17:45
twitterThe fact was worth sharing, even if the source is unreliable.  Did M$ really cut their budget $3 billion more than forecast?Jul 25 17:45
twitterIt's impossible to say because M$ cooks the books.Jul 25 17:45
schestowitzBe careful around IDF (PCWorld).Jul 25 17:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Michael Jackson "news value missing" at autopsy http://notnews.today.com/?p=569Jul 25 17:45
fewatry to focus attention off of MicrosoftJul 25 17:45
schestowitzThey are Microsoft folks, even with money in MicrosoftJul 25 17:45
fewaand their inepitude of making anything worth usingJul 25 17:45
schestowitzThe whole budget talk is distractionJul 25 17:45
schestowitzOld storylineJul 25 17:45
schestowitz"Microsoft is SO SO rich'Jul 25 17:46
schestowitz"Untouchable"Jul 25 17:46
fewabullshitJul 25 17:46
schestowitz"Linux has 0.000000001% market share, so it's not worth talking about it"Jul 25 17:46
fewawhat was the other computer company that dropped like a fly?Jul 25 17:46
schestowitz"Microsoft's worst enemy is Microsoft"Jul 25 17:46
schestowitz"Vista 7 will fix everything'Jul 25 17:46
schestowitz"It's just a weak economy'Jul 25 17:46
schestowitzAnyway, the talking points should be avoided like the plagueJul 25 17:47
schestowitzThey are PRJul 25 17:47
Guest123"history is the best predictor of the future"Jul 25 17:47
fewaGuest123, when you have as bad of a track record as Microsoft who can possibly believe their talking points?Jul 25 17:47
twitterHa ha, Todd Bishop did the M$ conference in New Orleans http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/51051037.htmlJul 25 17:47
schestowitzMore proof of the Apple-MS relationship: Microsoft Hires Ex-Apple Exec for Retail Operations < http://www.pcworld.com/article/168769/microsoft_hires_exapple_exec_for_retail_operations.html >Jul 25 17:48
twitterMakes big fun of Vista and Vista7Jul 25 17:48
Guest123all you can believe is what isJul 25 17:48
schestowitz"Zune will klill iPod"Jul 25 17:48
cjbenJIman: someone I quoted without permission requested that I take it down.  since I did not ask permission to post the log, and since it was taken from a channel that does not have public logs, I complied.Jul 25 17:48
schestowitz"XBox 360 is great, wii is a "kids's toy"" (yes, Microsoft called it that in 2006/7)Jul 25 17:48
schestowitz"Bing will be the next great thing"Jul 25 17:49
schestowitz[it's already dying]Jul 25 17:49
fewadeadJul 25 17:49
schestowitz"Vista will be the last nail on Linux's coffin"Jul 25 17:49
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schestowitzHaha1Jul 25 17:49
fewaIt was the biggest gifJul 25 17:49
schestowitzI wonder if they blew the $100ml marketing budget of Bong in just 6 weeksJul 25 17:49
schestowitzNobody bothers covering it anymoreJul 25 17:50
cjbenJIman: thanks for readingJul 25 17:50
fewa“Save Vista” campaign gathers momentum http://notnews.today.com/2009/05/05/save-vista-campaign-gathers-momentum/Jul 25 17:50
schestowitzSo it's old news and the only ones using it are redirected from Live/MSNJul 25 17:50
fewaschestowitz, good Bong :PJul 25 17:50
schestowitz<Guest123> = MutexJul 25 17:51
schestowitzThe shills never get tiredJul 25 17:51
fewathey are paid...Jul 25 17:51
twitterBishop swallows the M$ spin in the end of that article.Jul 25 17:51
cjschestowitz: I saw a moderately attractive person wearing a Bing shirt in the grocery store.  I wonder if they were given the shirt for marketing reasons ;)Jul 25 17:52
twitternonsense about transitioning from Vista to Vista 7 not going to be as hard as transition from XP to Vista as if that had happened.Jul 25 17:52
schestowitztwitter: Bishop?Jul 25 17:52
cjI've not used bing, so I cannot comment on its worth...Jul 25 17:52
schestowitzWhere?Jul 25 17:52
schestowitzTodd writes just for the Bing-sponsored TechFLashJul 25 17:53
twitterhttp://www.techflash.com/microsoft/51051037.htmlJul 25 17:53
twitterrightJul 25 17:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: Vista in 2006 generated more hype than Vista 7. You'll need another campaign soon. http://ping.fm/93FfAJul 25 17:53
twitterhe talks about M$ trying to forget VistaJul 25 17:53
schestowitzVIsta will be expensive to patch and maintainJul 25 17:53
twitterbut he's all spunJul 25 17:53
schestowitzBig mistakeJul 25 17:53
schestowitzThey'll try to do a free upgrade and put it in he ditchJul 25 17:53
schestowitzThe margins meanwhile erodedJul 25 17:54
cj... I don't think Windows 7 is called 'Vista 7' is it?Jul 25 17:54
schestowitzSo VIsta was successful at harming the monopolyJul 25 17:54
schestowitzErosion of margins, not just market shareJul 25 17:54
twitter*** twitter ignores cjJul 25 17:54
schestowitzcj: piss off.Jul 25 17:54
cjperhaps XP should be called Vista 6?Jul 25 17:54
schestowitzFor those who don't know, cj participates in smear campaigns against usJul 25 17:54
schestowitzHe also worked for MicrosoftJul 25 17:55
benJImanOh noes.Jul 25 17:55
cjschestowitz: why the rancor?Jul 25 17:55
benJImanSomebody call a whaaaaambulance.Jul 25 17:55
schestowitzWe don't need to waste space on trolls, sorryJul 25 17:55
*cj waves.Jul 25 17:55
schestowitzI don't visit #windows channelJul 25 17:55
twitter***twitter ignores benJImanJul 25 17:55
twitterrude peopleJul 25 17:55
cjschestowitz: thoughts on opengl/mesa?Jul 25 17:56
twitteranyway, Bishop went to New Orleans for the big Vista 7 love fest and seems less than impressed.Jul 25 17:57
twitterVista 7 is going to fizzle like Vista did.Jul 25 17:58
twittermaybe worse, and not because of the economy.Jul 25 17:58
Guest123time will tell, as it did with VistaJul 25 17:58
schestowitzIt'sthe sameJul 25 17:58
cjhow is the campaign to reemove GLX from default desktop package sets in popular distros going, out of curiosity?Jul 25 17:58
schestowitzI keep asking, what's the selling point?Jul 25 17:58
twitterMost Windows users, especially gamers, are still on XP.  They are going to have the same migration issues they did with Vista.Jul 25 17:58
schestowitzSome new GUI?Jul 25 17:59
twitterXP emulation !Jul 25 17:59
schestowitzMore ribbons in  *cough* notepad?Jul 25 17:59
schestowitzWow!Jul 25 17:59
twitterLooks like KDE!Jul 25 17:59
schestowitzIt's the SAME as Vista underneathJul 25 17:59
schestowitzIt'll failJul 25 17:59
schestowitzExpected Vista adoption was higher than Vista 7 AFAIKJul 25 17:59
fewaIt has no security http://www.pretentiousname.com/misc/win7_uac_whitelist2.htmlJul 25 18:00
schestowitzThe PR and bribed bloggery successfully brainwashed many people who never tried for selvedJul 25 18:00
fewaBroken by designJul 25 18:00
schestowitz*selvesJul 25 18:00
twitterSweatly B once said that M$ would never do better than Vista.  Ha ha.Jul 25 18:00
schestowitzSo you'll see statements like, "many people like VIsta 7"Jul 25 18:00
fewaVista 7's calc.exe runs with Administrator priviliagesJul 25 18:00
schestowitzCOming from people who never tried itJul 25 18:00
schestowitzAnd Microsoft uses TEs to gag criticaJul 25 18:00
fewabecause Microsoft coders are incompetentJul 25 18:00
schestowitzThere are no laws against itJul 25 18:00
twitterThey did the same with Vista and had to apologize.Jul 25 18:01
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_Goblinhi all!Jul 25 18:01
schestowitz"[W]e're not going to have products that are much more successful than Vista has been." --Steve BallmerJul 25 18:01
schestowitzFrom http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/vista/windows_vista_no_longer_matters.htmlJul 25 18:02
schestowitzOKJul 25 18:02
schestowitzSo Vista 7 will be as 'successful' as VistaJul 25 18:02
schestowitzThanks for the info, SteveJul 25 18:02
cjschestowitz: should I stop my efforts to integrate an opengl drawing surface into gtk+ core?  IYHO?Jul 25 18:02
cjhiya, _Goblin!Jul 25 18:03
schestowitz_Goblin: it's a trolllJul 25 18:04
schestowitzDon't replyJul 25 18:04
schestowitzGuest123 is Mutex alsoJul 25 18:04
trmancohttp://bluwiki.com/go/Ipodhash/TakedownJul 25 18:04
schestowitzWith his illy tagline "that's true"Jul 25 18:04
schestowitzWghich he repeated here to mock groupthinkJul 25 18:05
schestowitzSome people justify trolling as "adding balance" or something, which means adding PR or ruining discussion foraJul 25 18:05
trmancohttp://mdeslaur.blogspot.com/2009/07/goodbye-apple.htmlJul 25 18:05
schestowitztrmanco: http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/ipod/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218600244Jul 25 18:05
schestowitztrmanco: yes, seen it.Jul 25 18:06
schestowitz"For the longest time, I could use gtkpod to seamlessly access my iPods from my Ubuntu desktop. It initially took some reverse-engineering effort to understand the iPod's data format to be able to access it from non-iTunes software, but it was possible. All of a sudden, Apple is trying everything they can to prohibit interopability."Jul 25 18:06
cj_Goblin: meh, I'd argue that schestowitz is the troll. ;)Jul 25 18:06
trmancoah okJul 25 18:06
schestowitzVisual search engine Searchme goes offline < http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2009/07/20/daily107.html?ana=yfcpc >Jul 25 18:07
cjbut srsly, schestowitz, what are your thoughts on opengl?  do you refuse to comment?Jul 25 18:07
twitterAdded a comment to Todd's M$ blog.  I hope he's got more than Bing funding to keep that comment up.Jul 25 18:12
schestowitzLet me get something right... did MSO09 become Office 10?Jul 25 18:12
schestowitzIs the story as simple as that?Jul 25 18:12
schestowitzWas it pushed back, as usual?Jul 25 18:12
twitterrebranded in the face of strong opposition?Jul 25 18:13
schestowitzMAybe rebranded againJul 25 18:13
schestowitzThey shouls try Kumo next timeJul 25 18:13
schestowitzIf they have energy left to tryJul 25 18:13
schestowitz“It’s not the first entry for Microsoft, They do this about once a year. From Bing’s perspective, they have a bunch of new ideas and there are some things that are missing. We think search is about comprehensiveness, freshness, scale and size for what we do. It’s difficult for them to copy that.” --Google CEO, regarding BingJul 25 18:13
twitterthere's not a lot left of "office 2009" at M$Jul 25 18:14
twitterhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=site%3Amicrosoft.com+%22office+2009%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=Jul 25 18:14
twitterwas there ever anything more?Jul 25 18:14
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack: The need for Microsoft.net < http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/askjack/2009/jul/23/dotnet-microsoft-net >>Jul 25 18:15
schestowitzHe would be better off learning LinuxJul 25 18:15
schestowitzLet me read up on the WikiJul 25 18:15
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=office+2009Jul 25 18:15
schestowitzI reckon it's just delayedJul 25 18:16
schestowitzMicrosoft CTO spoke about itJul 25 18:16
schestowitzThey have NOTHING until next reportJul 25 18:16
schestowitzOctober's endJul 25 18:16
schestowitzThey'll be screwed again (-33% or so)Jul 25 18:16
schestowitzTheir business model is running out of time. Shelf life soon to end.Jul 25 18:16
schestowitzSilver Lie (anti-Linux weapon) never caught onJul 25 18:17
schestowitzTHey bribed companies to accept it, but no volunteers seem to adopt itJul 25 18:17
schestowitzJust kickbacksJul 25 18:17
schestowitzGoogle still reignsJul 25 18:17
schestowitzThe Fog Computeing thing is all Linux and LAMPJul 25 18:17
schestowitzAzure is GONE from the newsJul 25 18:17
schestowitzAs is BongJul 25 18:17
schestowitzAnd OS/Office suites are commofdityJul 25 18:18
schestowitzPeople use online tools for docs, increasinglyJul 25 18:18
schestowitzNormal people, not office workersJul 25 18:18
schestowitzPublishers use LaTeXJul 25 18:18
schestowitzAnd many move to OOo tooJul 25 18:18
schestowitzDownload pace doubledJul 25 18:18
cjschestowitz: so, could it be said that you are avoiding the subject of opengl because your tacit acceptance of the use of this technology is too difficult to address, considering your vehement rejection of other patent-laiden technology?Jul 25 18:18
schestowitzFrom 1.3ml/week in 2007 to about 3ml/week some months aghoJul 25 18:18
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schestowitzwb, wallclimber Jul 25 18:19
wallclimberHi!Jul 25 18:19
schestowitzI'll do COmes soon. I caught up with all the news, finallyJul 25 18:19
cjI would love to hear how you resolve this cognative dissonanceJul 25 18:19
schestowitzMicrosoft's cash cows tremble, so we need to put them out there ASAPJul 25 18:20
schestowitzwallclimber: we even have Microsoft trolls here, like cjJul 25 18:20
wallclimberI noticed - they're hard to missJul 25 18:20
schestowitzMutex is backJul 25 18:20
schestowitzHe's called Guest123 Jul 25 18:20
schestowitzSounds like a real personJul 25 18:20
schestowitzReal name: "thats right'Jul 25 18:20
schestowitzUsing his favourite clientJul 25 18:21
schestowitzIceCatJul 25 18:21
cjperhaps it is because opengl was developed outside of microsoft and the patents later purchased, rather than having been developed in-house?Jul 25 18:21
schestowitzStrong week in Wall Street ruined by Microsoft: http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/24/markets/markets_newyork/Jul 25 18:22
schestowitzEveryone up, up, up. Microsoft down by a thirdJul 25 18:22
schestowitz"Sorry folks, but Microsoft (MSFT Quote) ain't what it once was. The software giant is losing its edge, as we saw with yesterday's  earnings report." http://www.thestreet.com/story/10552230/1/todays-outrage-who-cares-about-microsoft.html?cm_ven=GOOGLENJul 25 18:22
schestowitzThe Street are obviously some Linux fanatics, "anti-Microsoft"{Tm}Jul 25 18:23
wallclimberDid MS ever really have an "edge" to lose?Jul 25 18:23
cjschestowitz: interesting that you consider free software developers to be trolls whil you do not consider those who contribute nothing other than puditry to be part of the /one true/ communityJul 25 18:23
schestowitzwallclimber: did you see the NAscom article?Jul 25 18:23
schestowitzI have another one comingJul 25 18:23
cjs/not //Jul 25 18:23
wallclimberi'm reading nowJul 25 18:24
schestowitzI figured out the details of Gates' latest business trip to IndiaJul 25 18:24
schestowitzI found about 9 articles, so there's a followup comingJul 25 18:24
schestowitzwallclimber: mindshare edge, not technical edgeJul 25 18:24
cjschestowitz: do you dispprove of using opengl in free software?Jul 25 18:25
schestowitzWelcome to FOSS, cj.  I see you're  still at Washington after losing that job with MicrosoftJul 25 18:25
schestowitzTrust takes time to buildJul 25 18:25
schestowitzGiven your many recent smears against BN, your road to trust is longJul 25 18:25
cjschestowitz: I grew up in WAJul 25 18:26
schestowitzSorry to hear that...Jul 25 18:26
cjwhy?Jul 25 18:26
schestowitzI was jokingJul 25 18:27
schestowitzTell me thisJul 25 18:27
schestowitzIf you are here, I assume you negotiateJul 25 18:27
schestowitzBut at the same time in other site (inc. Microsoft TEs) you mock usJul 25 18:27
schestowitzWhich is it, cj?Jul 25 18:27
schestowitzCan you blame others for not trusting you?Jul 25 18:27
schestowitzYou're listed among the Mono people in the Mono Web siteJul 25 18:27
schestowitzSTOCKS NEWS US-Microsoft shares surge ahead of results  < http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=7438651&subject=markets&action=article > SOmeone with inside information must have made a bundle pumping up the stock, methinks :-)Jul 25 18:29
schestowitzCramer....?Jul 25 18:29
twitterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat only works with i386.  Why would people use that instead of IceWeasel which works with almost everything Debian uses?Jul 25 18:29
wallclimberwell, you know what they say, buy low, sell highJul 25 18:30
twitterthere were a lot of general pump stories, M$ was just riding with the rest.Jul 25 18:30
cjschestowitz: I have recently heard some disturbing things about you and yours, including that personal attacks have been made on the employment of at least one free software contributor.  My regard for those in question has diminished greatly, true.Jul 25 18:30
trmanco*sigh*Jul 25 18:31
twitterbefore the rise, Bill Gates was selling millions of shares at less than $20.Jul 25 18:31
cjschestowitz: the blog? check again.Jul 25 18:31
cjschestowitz: but back to my question.  opengl?Jul 25 18:31
twitterM$FT took an 8% dump yesterday.Jul 25 18:31
twitterbig big sell off.Jul 25 18:32
schestowitzFresh fines: http://www.clintonnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090723/NEWS/90723001 http://www.sunherald.com/218/story/1494872.htmlJul 25 18:32
schestowitzhttp://www.clarionledger.com/article/20090723/BIZ/90723024/Miss.+cashes+in+on+Microsoft+settlement http://www.ago.state.ms.us/index.php/press/releases/ag_receives_40_million_from_microsoft/Jul 25 18:32
schestowitzcj: I made no such attackJul 25 18:33
schestowitzIf some idiot who reads BN did something, that's not my responisbilityJul 25 18:33
schestowitzStop accusing me of things I have nothing to do withJul 25 18:33
cjis there a reason opengl developers are not being harrassed as other community members are?Jul 25 18:33
trmancoyesJul 25 18:34
schestowitzRichard Waters wrote so much in praise of Microsoft this weekJul 25 18:35
schestowitzTo spin the bad resultsJul 25 18:35
schestowitzHe has been boosting Microsoft for years in FTJul 25 18:35
cjschestowitz: tell lefty.  he seems to believe that you transmitted messeges approving of the actions.  if you do not approve, it would do your reputation good (in my eyes at the very least) if you were to publicly condemn the actions.Jul 25 18:36
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schestowitzPhoto Gallery: U.S. Layoffs Mount < http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/story/10459283/1/photo-gallery-us-layoffs-mount.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA >Jul 25 18:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] NZ Post dumps Microsoft Office for Google... http://ping.fm/TUy43Jul 25 18:40
schestowitzMicrosoft woes weigh on Dow < http://www.ifaonline.co.uk/ifaonline/news/1495256/microsoft-woes-weigh-dow >Jul 25 18:41
fewaschestowitz, does that include StarOffice still?Jul 25 18:42
schestowitzI see heaps of coverage about the death of Microsoft's YouTUbe challengerJul 25 18:42
schestowitzfewa: it would be separateJul 25 18:43
schestowitzI don't think StarOffice offers much more anymoreJul 25 18:43
fewaor in the NZ zealand government storing all their documents on Google's servers?Jul 25 18:43
schestowitzSOme artwork and indemnificationJul 25 18:43
schestowitzfewa: NZ PostJul 25 18:43
schestowitzBesides, with Microsoft Office it's the sameJul 25 18:43
schestowitzMicrosoft turned Widnows to total spyware in 2004Jul 25 18:43
fewareally? why the hell would companies want to store their documents on Microsoft's servers?Jul 25 18:44
schestowitzWith Google and Mcirosoft it's push versus pullJul 25 18:44
schestowitzfewa: digi-masochismJul 25 18:44
fewabut one is clearly illegal, and the other is only semi-illegalJul 25 18:44
fewaand harder to catchJul 25 18:44
schestowitz07/23/2009 09:15 PM: Microsoft to cut 5,000 jobsJul 25 18:44
schestowitzAppeared by mistakeJul 25 18:44
schestowitzRestractedJul 25 18:44
fewaCompanies and governments should use OpenOffice.org or another desktop ODF applicationJul 25 18:45
fewaor host web applications themselvesJul 25 18:45
schestowitzIt gete more comlicated at war timeJul 25 18:45
schestowitzImagine what if the US went to war with IranJul 25 18:45
schestowitzThey could suspend all the computing there remotelyJul 25 18:45
fewaDoing your business on anothers server's is ridiculousJul 25 18:45
schestowitzNations are naive about the effect of ownership of computer in digital agesJul 25 18:45
fewaclearlyJul 25 18:46
schestowitzfewa: GOogle does ODFJul 25 18:46
schestowitzWell enough for basicsJul 25 18:46
fewabut its on their serversJul 25 18:46
schestowitzYesJul 25 18:46
fewanot yoursJul 25 18:46
schestowitzNot open source eitherJul 25 18:46
schestowitzUnlike WaveJul 25 18:46
fewabig differenceJul 25 18:46
fewaschestowitz, not yet for WaveJul 25 18:46
schestowitzSo you can't pull it to your when it growsJul 25 18:46
fewabut they did promiseJul 25 18:46
schestowitzThere's Google ApplianceJul 25 18:46
schestowitzBut it's for enterprise searchJul 25 18:47
schestowitzNot for AppsJul 25 18:47
schestowitzHs.Jul 25 18:47
schestowitzMicrosoft Terminates Financing Relationship With CIT < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aqFBToQmMpX0 >Jul 25 18:47
fewahttp://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1315097&cid=28820119Jul 25 18:47
schestowitzI didn't know there was a tie there... same with Nortel that went titsupJul 25 18:47
schestowitzk00kie policyJul 25 18:48
fewathey want to track users like google doesJul 25 18:49
schestowitzMicrosoft: "Quick! Give us money!! We need it now!!!!1" Microsoft wins piracy lawsuit < http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2009-07/20/content_8449721.htm >Jul 25 18:49
fewa*copyright infringementJul 25 18:49
fewayou get these long articles completely about copyright infringement but they dont even mention the termJul 25 18:50
fewainstead the bullshit about IPRJul 25 18:50
fewaand pirating, which 50 years ago meant the polar opposite of what it means todayJul 25 18:51
fewa"piracy"Jul 25 18:51
schestowitzArrrrrrrrJul 25 18:51
fewaARRRRRRJul 25 18:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sues Google For OS Color Infringement http://ping.fm/ztPMi Satire of courseJul 25 18:51
fewalol just point to Apple v Microsoft, and have it thrown outJul 25 18:52
fewaMicrosoft claimed "look and feel" is not copyrightedJul 25 18:52
fewaand that image makes no sense, its begging a question which is irreleventJul 25 18:54
fewasatire....Jul 25 18:54
schestowitzNice mug: http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN2445033320090724Jul 25 18:55
trmancohow can they sue about something that does not yet exist?Jul 25 18:55
fewalol Ballmer looks like golemJul 25 18:55
schestowitz"Shares of Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) fell as much as 11% Friday, erasing much of the company's pre-earnings stock gains, after the software titan reported disappointing results for its fourth fiscal quarter because of a sharp slowdown in software sales."Jul 25 18:55
_GoblinSorry afk there..Jul 25 18:55
schestowitzhttp://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090724-710067.htmlJul 25 18:55
schestowitzfewa: waa?Jul 25 18:55
schestowitzIt's not Ballmer. Who is BallmerJul 25 18:56
fewathe mug shotJul 25 18:56
schestowitzReuters just used stock photosJul 25 18:56
schestowitzUncle FesterJul 25 18:56
fewaSteve BalmerJul 25 18:56
fewahowever its spelledJul 25 18:56
schestowitzWooz dat?Jul 25 18:56
schestowitzWait a second..Jul 25 18:56
schestowitzAre you telling me it's not the guy from The Adams family that inherited Microsoft from the Witch of the North>?Jul 25 18:56
fewadevelopers, developers, developers, developers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbEJul 25 18:57
schestowitzIt's really fun going though MSFT news todayJul 25 18:59
schestowitzLater you go through "Linux" and see the sharp contrastJul 25 19:00
schestowitzLinux is unaffected by slowdown. It needs no PR budget, eitherJul 25 19:00
fewa"we would have had more innovation if we had less competition" 2nd half http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8SAFRBmcUJul 25 19:01
schestowitzBarron's: " Microsoft (ticker: MSFT) is arguably the greatest tech stock of all time and one of the greatest technology companies of the 20th century." http://online.barrons.com/article/SB124847500662380143.htmlJul 25 19:03
schestowitzTypical Barron'sJul 25 19:04
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/11/eric-savitz-and-microsoft/Jul 25 19:04
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sebsebsebhiJul 25 19:04
fewathats not even spin, its downright liesJul 25 19:04
schestowitzYesJul 25 19:06
schestowitz" greatest tech stock of all time"Jul 25 19:06
schestowitz" greatest technology companies of the 20th century"Jul 25 19:06
schestowitzYeah, makers of VistaJul 25 19:06
schestowitzGreatest technologyJul 25 19:06
schestowitzRacketeering tchnologyJul 25 19:07
schestowitzThey pump up MicrosoftJul 25 19:07
schestowitzSince 2006 when I first noticed it (See BN post)Jul 25 19:07
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/index.php?s=barron%27sJul 25 19:07
schestowitz"Microsoft Corp. Is Declining Following Q4 Report"Jul 25 19:08
schestowitzErik Jorgensen talks about the demise of another unit of hisJul 25 19:08
schestowitzHe's new on the job IIRCJul 25 19:08
schestowitzHe'll probably quit like in predecessors sooner or l;ater. They jumped shp very fast in MSN/Live.Jul 25 19:09
schestowitzSome spin goes like this:Jul 25 19:09
schestowitzlump in Amazon with MSFT, selectievblyJul 25 19:10
schestowitzThen say the technology giants in egenral stagnateJul 25 19:10
schestowitzBUT.......Jul 25 19:10
schestowitzThis ignores all of Microsoft's big rivals, whose profits increasedJul 25 19:10
schestowitzHere we go.. another Vista 7 compatibility failure: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2350455,00.aspJul 25 19:12
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cjschestowitz: should I take your lack of response to the request to condemn the actions taken against lefty as tacitly condoning them?Jul 25 19:19
cjschestowitz++Jul 25 19:19
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJul 25 19:20
schestowitzIf Microsoft falters, who will step up? < http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2009533642_edit25economy.html >Jul 25 19:22
schestowitzLinux...?Jul 25 19:22
fewajunkJul 25 19:23
fewaStockholm SyndromeJul 25 19:23
schestowitz"NZ Post unit to ditch Outlook, Exchange and probably SharePoint for 2,100 workers" http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/tech/28C1A6D0FAAF2B3ECC2575F9001536DAJul 25 19:24
schestowitzGoogle executives' fighter jet poised to target climate change http://www.marketwatch.com/story/google-execs-fighter-jet-to-combat-climate-change?siteid=yhoofJul 25 19:25
schestowitzDollar falls vs euro; data, earnings spur optimism http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN2448246020090724?rpc=44Jul 25 19:27
twitterLumber, shipping, seafood and other honest things.Jul 25 19:28
twitterreplace M$.Jul 25 19:28
schestowitztwitter is a neighbour of the Myhrvold troll in KirklandJul 25 19:29
schestowitz:-pJul 25 19:29
schestowitzDollar mixed on disappointing earnings < http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8xN5q0b0X5GBVkEEfWfxdWKr6FAD99L2E880 >Jul 25 19:30
twitterThe main problem the dollar should have right now is the massive amount that was spent last year.Jul 25 19:32
schestowitzWhoa. "Charter, which is controlled by Microsoft Corp (MSFT.O) co-founder Paul Allen, filed for bankruptcy protection in March, buckling under the weight of $21.7 billion in debt, but said at the time it had reached agreements with key stakeholders that would allow it to exit bankruptcy in a matter of months." http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN2122365420090721?rpc=44Jul 25 19:32
schestowitzI wonder (Still) why Microsoft is borrowing money http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090720/blow-a-sad-trombone-for-microsoft/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_ticker Blow a Sad Trombone for Microsoft Jul 25 19:34
schestowitzBroadcom profit tumbles, shares follow < http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE56N0C020090724 > IIRC, Broadcom is in the LF now, but it was very Linux hostileJul 25 19:35
twitterStallman blogged on the insanity of bailout spending a month ago http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2009/06/bailout-costs-vs-big-historical-events/Jul 25 19:35
_Goblinkeep getting distracted.....everyone ok?Jul 25 19:36
_GoblinI hit the COLA charts! Quite pleased with myself.Jul 25 19:36
schestowitz"Microsoft is dying" < http://distorted-loop.com/2009/07/24/microsoft-is-dying/ >Jul 25 19:36
schestowitz_Goblin: yeah.. well, just don't feed (quote) troll stuffJul 25 19:37
cjschestowitz: any comment on actions against David Schlesinger which allegedly received approval from you?  Schlesinger has claimed that these actions are tantamount to terrorism.  Do you deny that you approved of these actions?Jul 25 19:37
schestowitz_Goblin: speaking of trolls...... ^^Jul 25 19:37
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_GoblinlolJul 25 19:38
_Goblinyou can tell by its questions.....a very bad attempt to trap you down an avenue.Jul 25 19:39
twitterbecause more money was spent on the bank bailouts than the race to the moon, WW2, the Louisiana purchase, New Deal, Vietnam War and other events COMBINED, We should all expect the dollar to assume the value of toilet paper.Jul 25 19:39
_Goblinmy advice- "No comment" or for the US people here - "The 5th"Jul 25 19:39
twitterThis will precipitate a depression in much the same way WWI and the UK abandonment of the gold standard precipitated the last big depression.Jul 25 19:40
schestowitzIndeed. Bailout is massive robberyJul 25 19:40
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schestowitzThe trillionaires don't get enough.. they want some more with which to wage intl' wars of powerJul 25 19:41
twitterAs a famous economist once put it, the laws of supply and demand are not to be conned.Jul 25 19:41
schestowitzChina has huge power and wealth nowJul 25 19:41
schestowitzLondon and NY must be shakin'Jul 25 19:41
_Goblinbless them...times are hard...they can only afford to clean their moats twice a week.Jul 25 19:41
twitterUS mergers are ending with Chinese ownership.Jul 25 19:42
twitterThis is the price paid for two decades of non free tradeJul 25 19:42
schestowitzJust 2?Jul 25 19:43
twitterI think the real sell out happened under Clinton in the early 90sJul 25 19:44
schestowitzCherish the marvels of Friedman's 'Free' market. LOLJul 25 19:44
cjschestowitz: should I assume that you have "no comment" as _Goblin has recommended?Jul 25 19:44
twitterUnchecked, it will result in Chinese Communist style wealth and power distribution.  We see it now in the L curve but things can and will get worse.Jul 25 19:44
_GoblinCJ - If you understood UK Law you could give him a special warning.....lol...You are rather poor, I am doing your job for you.Jul 25 19:45
_GoblinCJ - Why are you trying to bait Roy?Jul 25 19:45
twitter_Goblin.  Please ignore the cj troll.Jul 25 19:46
_Goblinaw.Jul 25 19:46
cjalthough you are not American, you have the right to avoid commenting on the ground that the answers that would be given could be used as evidence againstJul 25 19:46
_GoblinokJul 25 19:46
twitterthank you :)Jul 25 19:46
cj_Goblin: I am not trying to bait him.  I am trying to get an answer to a very serious question.Jul 25 19:46
_GoblinnpJul 25 19:46
_GoblinMoving on.....Jul 25 19:46
twitterlunch timeJul 25 19:47
twitterbblJul 25 19:47
_Goblinsee ya.Jul 25 19:47
cjschestowitz: I'm writing up a blog post on the subject, and I would like to get your comment on a few questions.Jul 25 19:47
cj1) do you condone, condemn or have no feeling on the actions taken against Schlesinger?Jul 25 19:48
cj2) What are your thoughts about patent-laden mesa code in the default desktop releases of many popular distributuions?Jul 25 19:48
_GoblinRoy, finally got PClos up on one of my rigs.Jul 25 19:48
_GoblinYou were right, its a pretty neat little distro.  I was going to do a feature but its been reviewed to death.Jul 25 19:49
_GoblinSame with Mepis.Jul 25 19:49
cjschestowitz: if I don't hear anything from you, I'll ask to see the message Lefty claims to have seen about your approval of the actions.Jul 25 19:50
_GoblinI am a total Wolvix convert now.  Its probably the punchiest distro I have ever used.Jul 25 19:50
cj3) have you or do you plan to contribute to the Software Freedom Law Center?Jul 25 19:52
sebsebseb_Goblin: interestingJul 25 19:52
sebsebseb_Goblin: I  was trying it  a bit in vm last night,  Fluxbox one yeahJul 25 19:52
sebsebseb_Goblin: ,but  what if I was to install it,  I can then just install Gnome myself?Jul 25 19:52
_Goblindefault is XfceJul 25 19:53
schestowitzASUS with Linux next week \0/ "First Garmin-Asus smartphones due out next week:" http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=AC464D71-1A64-6A71-CE17A329F7D564CEJul 25 19:53
sebsebseb_Goblin: I was thinking maybe  going   VectorLinux  or  maybe  this  WolvixJul 25 19:53
_Goblinmmm,no... I dont think you could easily have Gnome running...Jul 25 19:54
sebsebsebthing with  Volvix  is I got root by default  when I was trying,  which  I  wasn't so keen aboutJul 25 19:54
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_GoblinVector, I have necer used...and yep you are root after install, however a terminal command away from creating another one.Jul 25 19:54
cjschestowitz: I'll be offline for a few hours while I take the family to the beach.  I'll read the /lastlog scrollback when I get back to the internets, so take your time in responding and please include 'cj' in anything you would like me to read.Jul 25 19:55
_Goblinin your Wolvix control panel there is an option (I believe) for creating a new user.Jul 25 19:56
_Goblinsebsebseb: I have found Wolvix gives far better performance than any of the mainstream distros...Jul 25 19:57
_Goblinwith it being a beta there are still a few issues but these are so minor it is not even important to fix them if you dont want to.Jul 25 19:58
sebsebseb_Goblin: issues such as?Jul 25 19:58
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah  I been trying a lot of distros out recently in vm,  sadly a lot aren't  up to date enough at the moment :(Jul 25 19:58
_Goblina mysterious window that opens up upon login....simply needs to be closed.....easy to sort out though...Jul 25 19:59
sebsebseb_Goblin: ,but  give it some time,  and I think there will be loads more distros that are up to date enough, to choose from,  that are all goodJul 25 19:59
_Goblintrue.Jul 25 19:59
sebsebsebPCLinuxOS   kind of interesting distro reallyJul 25 19:59
sebsebseb2009  version not ready yet, but  I think in August it may beJul 25 19:59
_Goblinyep, its very good....Jul 25 19:59
_GoblinQuite a few people have commented about it.Jul 25 19:59
schestowitzA known Linux-hostile writer (Joab) writes some weird article for OpenSolaris: http://gcn.com/articles/2009/07/27/gcn-interview-foxwell-opensolaris.aspxJul 25 20:00
sebsebsebit's  hard to convert to another distro,  when   Fedora 11 won't install,   Gentoo and  what not  I  probably don't really want to run yet, since the complexityiesJul 25 20:00
schestowitzBasically, the future of OpenSolaris under Oracle is uncertainJul 25 20:00
_GoblinGentoo is overated as being complicated...Jul 25 20:00
sebsebseband when what I am currently using  Ubuntu,  is  actsaully  more up to date  than many other distros at the omentJul 25 20:00
sebsebsebmomentJul 25 20:01
_Goblinif it works for you then its the best distro.Jul 25 20:01
_GoblinI know many "hardcore" Linux users that love Ubuntu.Jul 25 20:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Numbers. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/11568.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/525484.htmlJul 25 20:02
sebsebsebohJul 25 20:02
_GoblinI certainly won't go back to it though.Jul 25 20:02
sebsebsebwell yeah it can be good for more  advanced users as wellJul 25 20:02
sebsebsebwhat are you currently running as your main distro?Jul 25 20:02
sebsebsebwolvix?Jul 25 20:02
_GoblinI think if a distro is "fit for purpose" its the best one for you.Jul 25 20:02
_Goblinand yes.Jul 25 20:02
_Goblinon my main rig.Jul 25 20:02
sebsebsebI want to do an LPIJul 25 20:03
_GoblinI have Mepis 8 running on the 2nd machine on my deskJul 25 20:03
sebsebsebI think I can study that at home, and then just go some where for examsJul 25 20:03
sebsebsebnot exactly sureJul 25 20:03
_Goblinand then AROS and a plethos of other distro's on the restJul 25 20:03
_Goblin*plethoraJul 25 20:03
sebsebsebwhen  used one distro for a few years,  and  only that distro properly,   so in my case Ubuntu,  well it kind of dumbs you down, because your used to doing sudo apt-get install or  sudo aptitude and such.   When I  ran Fedora Core 2 and 4,  I didn't have Internet   since stupid wireless deviceJul 25 20:04
sebsebseband this is one reason why Debian hmm,   I think not, since  then I will be using apt-get/aptitude as wellJul 25 20:04
_GoblinOne of the issues I have with Ubuntu is performance.Jul 25 20:05
sebsebsebI want to use something a little bit more complex than Ubuntu now really,   but  which distro, is the problemJul 25 20:05
_GoblinWhy?Jul 25 20:05
sebsebseb,because  a lot of distros aren't up to date enough at the momentJul 25 20:05
_Goblinwhat the packages or the kernel?Jul 25 20:05
sebsebsebbothJul 25 20:05
_GoblinUbuntu packages are poor....last time I checked I think Wine was about 5 versions behind the current.Jul 25 20:06
_Goblin(IMO)Jul 25 20:06
sebsebsebyeah, butJul 25 20:06
_Goblinwhy not compile?Jul 25 20:06
sebsebsebcan  get the winehq.org repo for Ubuntu, then keep on getting later ones :)Jul 25 20:06
_Goblina myth is that its difficult.....its not.Jul 25 20:06
sebsebseband for later kernels and such,  ppa'sJul 25 20:06
sebsebsebI am not so keen on the ppa thing,  but anywayJul 25 20:07
_Goblinyou've reminded me...Ill just check which version of Wine Im running.Jul 25 20:07
sebsebseband I have compiled stuff before of courseJul 25 20:07
sebsebseb_Goblin: your using WIne hmmJul 25 20:07
_Goblin1.1.25Jul 25 20:07
_Goblinnot atm...Jul 25 20:07
_GoblinI used to use it for WOWJul 25 20:07
sebsebsebwell  Linux distros are really meant to be alternatives to Unix :)Jul 25 20:08
_Goblinand now simply demoscene stuff.Jul 25 20:08
sebsebsebjust certain distros such as Ubuntu are catered more at Windows users, tha want to get away from WindowsJul 25 20:08
_GoblinI think thats true...but then theres nothing wrong with that in itself...Jul 25 20:08
sebsebsebI think thisJul 25 20:09
sebsebsebnative Linux app :)Jul 25 20:09
_GoblinI think though if Ubuntu tries to play the MS game (being jack of all trades) it will end up as the Vista of Linux.Jul 25 20:09
sebsebsebisn't one that does what you want,  ok Wine,  still no good,  how about a vmJul 25 20:09
_Goblinof course a native Linux app is always preferable, but until the demoscene mainstay convert to Linux, I still have a need of Wine.Jul 25 20:10
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sebsebsebWine and  vm no good since some stupid Windows 3D game or something?   You  really want to play that game hmm,   ok  fine do it in a psycial Windows install,   but maybe you should also consider buying a games console :)   and  not an Xbox of course :DJul 25 20:10
_GoblinWine is great and especially since the Demoscene often uses nastly little DX hacks to achieve results.....Jul 25 20:11
sebsebsebideally what I said, but  the more stuff that works well in Wine the better :)Jul 25 20:11
sebsebsebsince that will help with market shareJul 25 20:11
_GoblinI'm not a gamer so it doesnt have much appeal.....although I did like WOW...Jul 25 20:11
sebsebseband we need about 20%  or so,  for all hardware and software companies, to take us seriouslyJul 25 20:11
_Goblinin respect of market share, I think the PC is dying as a gaming platform.Jul 25 20:11
sebsebseball/most evenJul 25 20:11
_GoblinConsoles and piracy are what will kill off the mainstream PC gaming scene (IMO)Jul 25 20:12
sebsebsebwhen I said more stuff working well in Wine,  I didn't mean just gamesJul 25 20:12
sebsebsebI meant anythingJul 25 20:12
sebsebsebexcept Wndows viruses and such of course, heh heh :)Jul 25 20:12
_GoblinI know....but I was suggesting for many the appeal of Wine will be for games.Jul 25 20:13
sebsebsebyep it isJul 25 20:13
sebsebseband  sadly it won't cut it yet, for many gamesJul 25 20:13
sebsebsebor people have to configure the game to work, and the average user, dosn't know how to do thatJul 25 20:13
_Goblincouldnt comment, but then I would never recommend Linux to a PC gamer.Jul 25 20:13
sebsebsebI wouldJul 25 20:13
sebsebseb,but depending on their games,  I may recommend they dual boot with Windows as wellJul 25 20:14
sebsebsebalso Linux does have some pretty good native games as well :)Jul 25 20:14
_GoblinI mean PC gamer in the sense that they don't use their PC for anything else.Jul 25 20:14
sebsebsebWine and virtualization is getting there though :)Jul 25 20:14
sebsebsebfor gamingJul 25 20:14
sebsebseb3D gamingJul 25 20:14
_Goblinlike I say,  consoles and piracy on the PC will kill of the PC gaming scene.Jul 25 20:14
sebsebsebwell if that happens, a lot of these gamers  that won't  convert to Linux yetJul 25 20:15
sebsebsebwill do soJul 25 20:15
_GoblinI always said games were "the last bastion of salvation for the windows platform"Jul 25 20:15
sebsebsebquite a lot of gamers would go Linux, if   there games would work well with itJul 25 20:15
_Goblintrue.Jul 25 20:15
_Goblinbut then I have reservations of mass migration to Linux...Jul 25 20:15
sebsebsebwhat was that?Jul 25 20:15
sebsebsebwhat did you mean?Jul 25 20:16
_Goblinok....prepare for rant...!>!>Jul 25 20:16
_GoblinI believe Vista is sole fault of the average user....Jul 25 20:16
_Goblintheir demands for one click solutions to on click solutions...Jul 25 20:16
sebsebsebsole fault of the average user???Jul 25 20:16
_Goblinresulted in the bloated binary slug we see in Vista.  Microsoft tried to appeal to everyone for all things.Jul 25 20:17
sebsebsebVista is ok,  but  would have also been much better, if  most  Windows users,  actsaully knew  certain things about  Windows and Microsoft  and computing in generalJul 25 20:17
_GoblinLinux is something that is better but requires effort on behalf of the new user...its not just handed on a plate.Jul 25 20:17
sebsebsebMicrosoft  get away with a lot really,  because a lot of  people that don't know computers that well, rely on themJul 25 20:17
_GoblinI can see the forums now.....Jul 25 20:17
_Goblin"Ive just installed Linux, how do I get the spinny cube thing working?"Jul 25 20:18
_GoblinI also think that ANY platform having majority market share is bad for innovation.Jul 25 20:18
sebsebsebLinux distros  are really meant to be better  pretty much all the time, the problem at the moment though is, a lot of programs that  people want to  run,  won't work natively with Linux,  and  may need configuring in  Wine,  or  not work there at allJul 25 20:19
_Goblinand I always ask....what programs are these?Jul 25 20:19
_Goblinforgetting games for a minuteJul 25 20:19
_GoblinI cannot think of a Windows util that either hasnt got an equally good Linux equivilant, a linux port or runs through Wine.Jul 25 20:20
sebsebsebwell sometimes people want to run  freeware apps  that technically aren't that  great,  but  usabilitywise and such,  result in users likeing the programJul 25 20:20
_Goblinyes, but like what?  I can never pin anyone down to an answer with this....Jul 25 20:21
sebsebsebEbay Turbo ListerJul 25 20:21
sebsebsebthat's an example of a program,  that a woman wanted to run on  UbuntuJul 25 20:21
sebsebsebproblem was,  Wine  woudn't do it,  or it needed configuring for it, and we didn't know howJul 25 20:22
_GoblinEbay? thats it?Jul 25 20:22
sebsebseband  she didn't have enough RAM  so   virtual machines were outJul 25 20:22
sebsebsebanother example Kodek Easyshare, another womanJul 25 20:22
_GoblinIm sure there are alternatives.Jul 25 20:23
sebsebsebwe didn't have any luck in Wine,  and at the time, didn't have enough RAM to virtual machine it,   in fact she has tried that now even, but  there were some issuesJul 25 20:23
sebsebsebsure f-spot  digikam etc, but  none of those will upload to the kodek galleryJul 25 20:23
_GoblinIf Ebay/Kodak are the two reasons why people are not migrating them microsoft is certainly doomed.Jul 25 20:23
sebsebsebsure it's gamesJul 25 20:24
sebsebseband silly little appsJul 25 20:24
sebsebsebwhy people aren't  convertingJul 25 20:24
_Goblinyes but what silly apps....?Jul 25 20:24
sebsebsebthe two I just mentioned for exampleJul 25 20:24
ThistleWebpeeps have been conditioned to know they need anti-spyware, anti-virus etcJul 25 20:24
_Goblinyes but I refuse to believe that those two are responsible for the MS market share.Jul 25 20:24
ThistleWebwhile those don't exist on linux they will feel hesitantJul 25 20:25
sebsebsebThistleWeb: no they don't, if they know how to secure Windows properly :)Jul 25 20:25
ThistleWebeven thouugh they dont need them, they wont accept itJul 25 20:25
ThistleWebyou can;t secure windows properlyJul 25 20:25
_Goblindont plug it in to the wall....thats about the only way to secure Windows.Jul 25 20:25
sebsebsebit's not needed in Windows either, if  people truely know how to secure it :)Jul 25 20:25
ThistleWebit;'s impossibleJul 25 20:25
_Goblinbury it in concrete.  Its pretty secure then.Jul 25 20:25
sebsebsebdon't use admin all the time,   that's a startJul 25 20:26
_GoblinIE has another hole that is to be patched on tues (critical)Jul 25 20:26
fewasebsebseb, http://www.pretentiousname.com/misc/win7_uac_whitelist2.htmlJul 25 20:26
fewasebsebseb, how can you secure windows if its insecure by design?Jul 25 20:26
_GoblinconcreteJul 25 20:26
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_Goblinhonestly, you wont have a problem.Jul 25 20:27
_Goblinhi taconeJul 25 20:27
sebsebsebideally people  in general  need to be educated more when it comes to computers,   but security  companies won't just do it for example,  because they make money selling virus scanners and suchJul 25 20:27
taconehiJul 25 20:27
fewaalthough i admit most people who get malware do so by running some randoms person's codeJul 25 20:27
fewahowever, that is the only way to install software in WIndowsJul 25 20:27
fewathere is no secure wayJul 25 20:28
taconethese days malware comes via websitesJul 25 20:28
_Goblinlike Windows 7 RCJul 25 20:28
ThistleWebwith windows there is only "more secure" not "secure"Jul 25 20:29
sebsebsebThistleWeb: yep pretty muchJul 25 20:29
sebsebsebaltough no OS is 100%  secure, but  non  Microsoft OS's  tend to  be much more secure by default :)Jul 25 20:29
_Goblinnot tend.....are.Jul 25 20:30
fewaWindows is designed to be insecure by defaultJul 25 20:30
fewait makes Microsoft alot of moneyJul 25 20:30
fewaand insecure by designJul 25 20:30
sebsebseb_Goblin: in fact  there is one distro that was designed to be really insecure, but  that's for educational purpousesJul 25 20:31
_Goblinyep and gains support from 3rd party devs since they can make a buck out of its users too.Jul 25 20:31
fewasebsebseb, thats not a "tend" or "trend" howeverJul 25 20:31
sebsebsebfewa: in general   non Microsoft OS's   are usaully more secure by defaultJul 25 20:32
sebsebsebor  get rid of the usaully if you likeJul 25 20:32
_Goblinand the "in general"?Jul 25 20:32
sebsebsebwait noJul 25 20:32
_Goblin;)Jul 25 20:32
sebsebsebusually   is correctJul 25 20:33
sebsebsebnot all  non Microsoft OS's are going to be more secure by default,  but most will be :)Jul 25 20:33
fewathe vast majorityJul 25 20:33
fewaaka allJul 25 20:33
_Goblinname one.....Jul 25 20:33
_Goblinthat was to sebsebsebJul 25 20:33
_GoblinMojave ;)Jul 25 20:34
schestowitzI get an empty page for this: http://www.smartbrief.com/news/comptia/storyDetails.jsp?issueid=C5B2E3E0-758F-40C2-B0EB-327B78A19707 Does it work for anyone else?Jul 25 20:34
ThistleWebWindows cant afford to be secure, because they'd piss off their partners in the security software industry, who exist soley to fix the holes MS leave behindJul 25 20:34
_Goblinblank page here Roy.Jul 25 20:34
_GoblinThistleweb: As Moshe would say Bingo!Jul 25 20:35
taconeme aitherJul 25 20:35
tacones/a/e/Jul 25 20:35
ThistleWebpissing off the partners is some reward for covering your ass for all these yearsJul 25 20:35
fewaThistleWeb, you mean Security theatre businessJul 25 20:35
fewaneither secure, nor industryJul 25 20:35
sebsebseb_Goblin: there's one you can find on distrowatch   that was purpously designed to be as insecure as possible, because it's for security reasearchJul 25 20:35
ThistleWebwindows only holds together for more than a few days at a time BECAUSE of the help from anti-virus etcJul 25 20:36
_Goblinyes but then thats different.Jul 25 20:36
ThistleWebif it wasn;t for thse programs Windows would have fallen years agoJul 25 20:36
fewaThistleWeb, thats not a operating system, thats a test caseJul 25 20:36
_Goblinsebsebseb: I put it to you that you cannot find a distro less secure than Windows.Jul 25 20:36
sebsebseb_Goblin: well  my example :)Jul 25 20:36
_Goblinsebsebseb: No because thats intentional,Jul 25 20:36
sebsebseb_Goblin: and maybe some random  distro  is made by someone  that is  insecureJul 25 20:36
sebsebseb_Goblin: ,but in general  Linux distros are  more secure :)Jul 25 20:37
_Goblinsebsebseb: Maybe youre just guessing?Jul 25 20:37
fewasebsebseb, great heresayJul 25 20:37
_GoblinlolJul 25 20:37
_GoblinOh hang on sebsebseb....Jul 25 20:37
ThistleWebactually there is a linux distro designed to be insecureJul 25 20:37
_GoblinIve found an "allegedly" non MS OS insecure....Jul 25 20:37
ThistleWebit's built with security holesJul 25 20:37
fewaThistleWeb, thats on purpose thoughJul 25 20:37
ThistleWebto be fair, it's designed as a trainign distroJul 25 20:37
ThistleWebfewa: exactlyJul 25 20:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I hear rumours of a ~£120 (~$200) ARM based laptop running Ubuntu in time for UK launch at Christmas..Jul 25 20:38
ThistleWebto train peeps how to secure itJul 25 20:38
_GoblinMojaveJul 25 20:38
_Goblinthat would be pretty insecure.Jul 25 20:38
sebsebsebnot MojaveJul 25 20:40
sebsebsebsince it's not on distrowatchJul 25 20:40
sebsebsebI found another one when I went down the distrowatch listJul 25 20:41
_GoblinI was being flippant.Jul 25 20:41
sebsebsebthe whole list that is :DJul 25 20:41
_Goblinok...go for it.Jul 25 20:41
sebsebsebhere  and there,  during  a period of 2 or 3 weeks,  and now I don't remember which one it is :(Jul 25 20:41
_Goblinoh dear...Jul 25 20:41
_Goblinwell its certainly not one we are going to come across is it? ;)Jul 25 20:42
_Goblinwhy dont we simply give this distro a name........er.....Jul 25 20:42
sebsebsebgot itJul 25 20:42
sebsebsebhttp://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=dvlJul 25 20:42
_Goblinsince I am a fan of Wolvix......maybe we should call your insecure distro.....Bolix?Jul 25 20:43
ThistleWebthat'd be fun, a distro called MojaveJul 25 20:43
_Goblinthe one you link to is intentional.Jul 25 20:43
sebsebseb_Goblin: that's what I said beforeJul 25 20:43
ThistleWebbollux? sounds BritishJul 25 20:43
_Goblinyep....a good name for seb's insecure linux theory?Jul 25 20:44
_Goblinits Bollix though.Jul 25 20:44
sebsebseb_Goblin: I said in general  Linux distros will be more secure than Windows, unless  some  random  person who dosna't really know how to make a distro ends up making some insecure one,   or   they are purpously designed to be insecure  such as the example just nowJul 25 20:44
schestowitzBoolux has not been updated in AGESJul 25 20:44
schestowitzSince 2007 IIRCJul 25 20:44
_Goblinso sebsebseb, let me get this straight you are saying "generally" linux is more secure on the basis of one intentionally exploitable distro?Jul 25 20:44
schestowitz*BollJul 25 20:44
sebsebsebthat's something else, if  OS's are  really oldJul 25 20:45
sebsebseb,because they are not maintined anymoreJul 25 20:45
_Goblinlol...Jul 25 20:45
_Goblin95Jul 25 20:45
_Goblin98Jul 25 20:45
_GoblinMEJul 25 20:45
sebsebsebor  it's the old version of an OSJul 25 20:45
_GoblinWorkbench 1.3Jul 25 20:45
schestowitzV7Jul 25 20:45
sebsebsebwell then naturally   XP  may be more secureJul 25 20:45
_GoblinGem desktopJul 25 20:45
_Goblinrubbish.Jul 25 20:45
_Goblinaccording to MS vista is more secure.Jul 25 20:46
_Goblinthan XPJul 25 20:46
_Goblinlol.Jul 25 20:46
ThistleWebI just thought of something for the Brits to cheer about, we have a damn good Linux distro nowJul 25 20:46
_Goblinwhat Bollix?Jul 25 20:46
sebsebsebwhat was that distro one of the first.  ydresiul?Jul 25 20:46
ThistleWebactually 2Jul 25 20:46
sebsebsebuh spellingJul 25 20:46
_Goblin;)Jul 25 20:46
ThistleWebno, crunchbang, and mintJul 25 20:46
_GoblinCBL...mmmmJul 25 20:46
sebsebseby  something one of the first distros,  can that go online?  well if so,   maybe  XP is more secure then that distroJul 25 20:46
_Goblinits good.....although overkill on the pre-packaged apps.Jul 25 20:46
ThistleWebcrunchbang is english, mint is irishJul 25 20:47
ThistleWebcompared to the US or Germany it's still small fryJul 25 20:47
ThistleWebbut we're on the mapJul 25 20:47
ThistleWebwhooohoooJul 25 20:47
_Goblinnever used Mint.Jul 25 20:47
ThistleWebmint is very niceJul 25 20:47
_Goblinhad CBL 8.10 running for a while.....Jul 25 20:48
*ThistleWeb is using crunchbang 9.04 nowJul 25 20:48
_Goblinsorry, time to get l337 - #!CBLJul 25 20:48
_Goblinnice distro though...Jul 25 20:48
sebsebsebmint was  uhmm to green for my likeing by defaultJul 25 20:48
sebsebseband stuff like thatJul 25 20:48
_Goblinshould really give 9.04 a proper go.Jul 25 20:48
ThistleWebmint is a more polished ubuntuJul 25 20:48
sebsebseb_Goblin: Ubuntu 9.04  Gnome isn't that great reallyJul 25 20:48
_GoblinMints theme puts me in mind of Opensuse.Jul 25 20:49
_Goblinno seb, CBL 9.04.1Jul 25 20:49
sebsebseb_Goblin: 8.10 is better in certian ways, but 9.10 should be better so :)Jul 25 20:49
_Goblinits openboxJul 25 20:49
sebsebsebyesJul 25 20:49
sebsebsebI know crunchbangJul 25 20:49
sebsebsebI tried in vmJul 25 20:49
ThistleWebsheesh, the peeps hwo judge a distro on it's default theme knowing it can be changed with a clickJul 25 20:49
sebsebseband heard about it beforeJul 25 20:49
_Goblinvm?Jul 25 20:49
_Goblinu windows?Jul 25 20:49
sebsebsebvirtual machineJul 25 20:49
_Goblinyes I know what VM means.Jul 25 20:49
*tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 25 20:50
_Goblinwhy bother...just run a live CD....Jul 25 20:50
sebsebsebno I done my recant vm trying with Ubuntu as host :)Jul 25 20:50
ThistleWebI rarely keep the default theme / icons etc but the last mint 6 had real nice iconsJul 25 20:50
sebsebseb,because if I am trying nearly every distro on  distrowatchJul 25 20:50
_Goblinwhy?Jul 25 20:50
sebsebsebthat's in Engilsh and  maybe  worth trying as a desktop distroJul 25 20:50
_Goblinwhats wrong with the one you are using?Jul 25 20:50
sebsebsebI  am not going to burn loads of cd'sJul 25 20:50
ThistleWebmint xfce 6 was the first time in ages I've stuck with the default iconsJul 25 20:50
ThistleWebsebsebseb: remember to add pardus to your listJul 25 20:51
_GoblinIve just finally got around to updating XfceJul 25 20:51
sebsebseb_Goblin: Ubuntu 9.04  is alright,  except for one  feature in particularJul 25 20:51
sebsebsebThistleWeb: oh I been down the whole distro watch list :)Jul 25 20:51
sebsebsebrecentlyJul 25 20:51
_Goblinwhats that?Jul 25 20:51
ThistleWebpardus looks damn niceJul 25 20:51
_Goblinisnt it Greek or soemthing>Jul 25 20:52
ThistleWebI'm suspicious of any distro developed by any govtJul 25 20:52
_Goblinor TurkishJul 25 20:52
ThistleWebturkey yesJul 25 20:52
_Goblincool.Jul 25 20:52
ThistleWebit's a dual languagfe distroJul 25 20:52
ThistleWebvery ggod english and turkish supportJul 25 20:52
_Goblinwhat wrong with 9.04 sebsebseb?Jul 25 20:52
*ThistleWeb has been drinking, so forgive the typosJul 25 20:52
_Goblin* Goblin hasn't he's just thick.Jul 25 20:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Computers with GNU/Linux May become Libre and Gratis Too http://ping.fm/47bGlJul 25 20:53
sebsebsebThistleWeb: nope didn't do that one,   since  partly the distrowatch description I guess,  but  it will have been since the website is not in English, and I don't see  a link for EnglishJul 25 20:53
sebsebsebThistleWeb: oh there it is hmmJul 25 20:53
_Goblinbbl....shower time....Jul 25 20:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Powerhouse Behind Wine for GNU/Linux Desktops Sees Revenue Hike http://ping.fm/VIT6lJul 25 20:54
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well don't see a screenshot linkJul 25 20:54
sebsebsebwhen I was saying Y something distro before I meant YggdrasilJul 25 20:54
ThistleWebsebsebseb: apparently it;s a dual language distro, so anything other than english or turkish and you maybe on your own. It's gnome in case you were wonderingJul 25 20:54
ThistleWebI thinkJul 25 20:55
ThistleWebit's not based on anything, it has a lot of unique apps like it's own package managerJul 25 20:55
sebsebsebshame PCLinuxOS 2009 isn't ready yet and suchJul 25 20:55
ThistleWebit's getting a lot of good reviewsJul 25 20:55
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I am stuck with Ubuntu for now, unless  I do something  that isn't  mainstreame as suchJul 25 20:56
*crunchy135711 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jul 25 20:56
pcolonPardus is KDE4.2 - Parsix is GNOMEJul 25 20:56
sebsebsebI really don't like that KDE 4 thingJul 25 20:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Truly Free Software 3D Driver for ATI/AMD Gets Better http://ping.fm/0Ly0MJul 25 20:57
sebsebsebexcept for how many of the apps got better, but I can run those in Gnome anyway :)Jul 25 20:57
ThistleWebI stand corrected thenJul 25 20:57
*sebsebseb Long live KDE 3!Jul 25 20:57
schestowitz+1Jul 25 20:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah your a fan as well?Jul 25 20:57
cjby 'truly' do you mean unencumbered by opengl?Jul 25 20:57
ThistleWebpclinuxos 2007 was sweetJul 25 20:57
schestowitzI liked kde4 tooJul 25 20:57
schestowitzI haven't used it much thoughJul 25 20:57
ThistleWebnot tried 2009Jul 25 20:58
schestowitzJust not on my PCs yet.Jul 25 20:58
sebsebsebkde4  is to differnet  to kde3Jul 25 20:58
*ThistleWeb has grown out of QT since thenJul 25 20:58
sebsebsebso as a gui no thanksJul 25 20:58
sebsebseb,but it's apps in Gnome, sure :)Jul 25 20:58
sebsebsebThistleWeb: yeah if  I remember correctly  I vm'd   that as well recently PCLinuxOS 2007Jul 25 20:59
sebsebseb,but yeah I remember at the timeJul 25 20:59
sebsebsebgood reviews and everything,   but Ubuntu  was the one that kept on hitting off properlyJul 25 20:59
sebsebsebUbuntu may be like the new Windows one day!  As in the one with most of the marketJul 25 21:00
ThistleWebpeeps commented on an army of pclinuxos fans swamping forums, blogs etc.....I was one of them, not spamming, but chipping in every time someone recommended ubuntu with "you could also try pclinusos"Jul 25 21:00
sebsebseboh hehJul 25 21:00
schestowitzPCLOS does KDE3 stillJul 25 21:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Scale of 1-10, how gross is it that I just picked the now-solid melted cheese off the grill pan after cheese on toast?Jul 25 21:01
ThistleWebit was the first distro that worked with my hardwareJul 25 21:01
schestowitzI used 2009 for a weekJul 25 21:01
schestowitzJust before .2 came outJul 25 21:01
ThistleWeb2007 I meanJul 25 21:01
sebsebsebschestowitz: it has KDE3 in the 2009 version?Jul 25 21:01
schestowitzAnd it has KDE4 in the reposJul 25 21:01
sebsebsebsweet sounds good to me,  KDE3 in the repo for 2009 as well :)Jul 25 21:01
ThistleWebit allowed me to wipe my xp partition and move to linux full timeJul 25 21:01
schestowitzsebsebseb: yesJul 25 21:01
schestowitz3.5.10 IIRCJul 25 21:01
sebsebsebwhat about file  systems,  Ext4  as an option and such?Jul 25 21:01
schestowitzCan't remember, didn't checkJul 25 21:02
schestowitzI used it as a live cdJul 25 21:02
schestowitzSo ramdiskJul 25 21:02
sebsebsebI think 2009 is coming out at the end of August?Jul 25 21:02
ThistleWeb2009 still have the XP style window decorations?Jul 25 21:02
ThistleWeb2007 did, and they look better than XPJul 25 21:03
schestowitzthenixedreport: PCLOS?Jul 25 21:03
schestowitzNo.Jul 25 21:03
schestowitzIt has translucent windows decorationJul 25 21:03
ThistleWebkJul 25 21:04
ThistleWeb2007 was a blatant attempt to mimic xp, but it looked so much better than xpJul 25 21:04
schestowitzI figured Susan has many people read her site cause the toolbar in PCLOS (Firefox) links to tuxmachinesJul 25 21:05
schestowitzThistleWeb: also the logosJul 25 21:05
schestowitzThe splash screen in 2009 shows logo evolutionJul 25 21:05
ThistleWebit's been a while, I didn;t notice thatJul 25 21:05
ThistleWebbut the window decorations were XP, complete with XP minimise / maximise etcJul 25 21:06
ThistleWebbut betterJul 25 21:06
ThistleWebI'm not sure I could go back to kde nowJul 25 21:06
ThistleWebI've grown too GTKJul 25 21:06
ThistleWebif I could PClinux would get first dibs at impressing meJul 25 21:07
ThistleWebeven though it's .rpmJul 25 21:07
ThistleWeb:/Jul 25 21:07
*sebsebseb thinks he should give Mandriva and then PCLinuxOS 2009 a try as host OSJul 25 21:07
pcolonUses synaptic as package managerJul 25 21:07
sebsebsebthen maybe put karmic on hmmJul 25 21:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at Scientific Linux 4.8 http://ping.fm/kwqT0Jul 25 21:08
ThistleWebyep, synatpic is potentially it's saving graceJul 25 21:08
fewasebsebseb, KVM with virt-manager works wellJul 25 21:08
ThistleWebsebsebseb: mandriva and pclinuxos are just 2 splits along the same bloodlineJul 25 21:08
schestowitzMAndriva's package manager is great tooJul 25 21:08
ThistleWebthey both have the same mandrake DNAJul 25 21:09
pcolonSorry uses apt, synaptic is gui for aptJul 25 21:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] http://ping.fm/AZMIc Red Hat Educates Professors -- News ObserverJul 25 21:09
sebsebsebfewa: this computer does not have hardware virtualization so KVM is outJul 25 21:09
fewasebsebseb, then its not much of a host for any virtualizationJul 25 21:09
fewaunless its para-virt such as openVZJul 25 21:10
sebsebsebI wanted to do Fedora 11 as host OS really, but  when I try and do a custom install keeping my partitions,  I get an error  from Ananonda that basically says it's probably a bugJul 25 21:10
ThistleWebmandriva was the official path, while pclinux was a fork by mandrake devs who didn't like the direction mandriva was going, so it's a pure mandrakeJul 25 21:10
fewasebsebseb, virt extentions make a huge differenceJul 25 21:10
ThistleWebmandrake as it would beJul 25 21:10
ThistleWebfor good or illJul 25 21:10
sebsebsebyep I knew that PCLinuxOS is based on MandrivaJul 25 21:10
sebsebsebfewa: whatever that isJul 25 21:10
ThistleWebbased on mandrakeJul 25 21:10
ThistleWebnot mandrivaJul 25 21:10
ThistleWebhence all the Drake appsJul 25 21:11
fewasebsebseb, try OpenVZ then if you want your virtual machines to have performanceJul 25 21:11
ThistleWeblike drakeinstall etcJul 25 21:11
sebsebsebfewa: what's that?Jul 25 21:11
sebsebsebfewa: and Virtualbox works well enough for me :)Jul 25 21:11
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenVZ http://wiki.openvz.org/Main_PageJul 25 21:11
fewasebsebseb, it may, but with virt extentions it well work even betterJul 25 21:12
ThistleWebas good as PCLinux is, the name is terribleJul 25 21:12
fewamuch fasterJul 25 21:12
ThistleWebthey really need a new nameJul 25 21:12
fewaie native speedJul 25 21:12
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well  yes indeed it is, if your going to run the distro on a MacJul 25 21:12
ThistleWebeven when I was one of the PCLOS supporters I couldn;'t defend the nameJul 25 21:12
sebsebsebThistleWeb: the name sounds  newbie  friendly, and I guess that was the ideaJul 25 21:13
ThistleWebhmmmJul 25 21:13
fewabut OpenVZ can work at native speed even without virt-extentionsJul 25 21:13
fewaalso native IO unlike other virtualiztionJul 25 21:13
ThistleWebmaybeJul 25 21:13
ThistleWebthey do have other cool stuff like SAM linuxJul 25 21:13
ThistleWebsam was coolJul 25 21:14
ThistleWeban xfce distro fromt he ripper gangJul 25 21:14
sebsebsebUbuntu/Canonical have a major advantage though over other distros,  the free offical CD'sJul 25 21:14
ThistleWebmost distros have no moneyJul 25 21:15
ThistleWebubuntu does not have that problemJul 25 21:15
sebsebsebwell Shuttleworth bails them out each yearJul 25 21:15
sebsebseb,but it's not like they have money to advertise Ubuntu on the TV and suchJul 25 21:15
sebsebsebor do they, but they just don't want to yet?  hmmJul 25 21:15
ThistleWebthey dont waste moneyJul 25 21:16
ThistleWebthey're not an Apple etc in terms of promoJul 25 21:16
sebsebsebThistleWeb: advertising it on the TV  to the average consumer is a waste of money?Jul 25 21:16
ThistleWebthey dont make profits yetJul 25 21:16
sebsebsebexactly  hence no TV advertJul 25 21:16
fewasebsebseb, Microsoft wasted billionsJul 25 21:16
fewaand no profitJul 25 21:16
sebsebsebfewa: well if they wasted money,  they got it back later onJul 25 21:17
ThistleWebapparently shuttleworth has put a pencilled final date on his funding of ubuntuJul 25 21:17
sebsebsebThistleWeb: when's that?Jul 25 21:17
sebsebsebpencilled, you mean so he can  rub it out?  change his mind?Jul 25 21:17
fewathe guy has alot of moneyJul 25 21:17
ThistleWebhe knows that he;d need to fund it for X years before he expects it to be self sustainingJul 25 21:17
fewaand he owes it to LinuxJul 25 21:17
fewahe whole business was based on it: VeriSignJul 25 21:18
ThistleWebhence all the efforts at competing with novell and redhat in corporate environmentsJul 25 21:18
sebsebsebfewa: yeah  he made his money when the  Internet hit off or whatever,  I don't really know the proper storyJul 25 21:18
sebsebsebuh Internet?Jul 25 21:18
sebsebsebthe webJul 25 21:18
fewaVeriSignJul 25 21:18
ThistleWebright now, ubuntu is costing him moneyJul 25 21:18
schestowitzSOme refuteJul 25 21:18
sebsebsebyepJul 25 21:18
schestowitzNYtJul 25 21:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Can't Measure Its Market Share http://ping.fm/udgHKJul 25 21:19
schestowitzAnnual revenue $20mlJul 25 21:19
ThistleWebthe less it loses him per lonth, the more he'll be likely to extend the cut offJul 25 21:19
ThistleWebmonthJul 25 21:19
fewaOh whoopsJul 25 21:19
fewahe founded Thawte, not VeriSignJul 25 21:19
fewasold it to VeriSignJul 25 21:19
ThistleWebthe desktop is not his targetJul 25 21:19
fewathats where he gets his money, it was all built on LinuxJul 25 21:20
ThistleWebhe wants ubuntu on corporate servers with support contracts ala RHJul 25 21:20
sebsebsebyep server support and such, that's where the money isJul 25 21:20
sebsebsebhowever really  surely,   Desktop Ubuntu, is  what makes Ubuntu so popular?Jul 25 21:20
ThistleWebdesktop is the channelJul 25 21:21
sebsebsebThistleWeb: what do you mean?Jul 25 21:22
fewafree advertisingJul 25 21:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ASUS to Announce Linux Smartphones Next Week http://ping.fm/RW8Pw http://ping.fm/CcKgRJul 25 21:22
ThistleWebserver support is the goalJul 25 21:22
fewaHe wants to proove that it can be a good businessJul 25 21:22
sebsebsebwell most Linux servers are run on  Debian right?Jul 25 21:22
sebsebsebor Redhat or whatever?Jul 25 21:22
fewaand RHJul 25 21:22
ThistleWebhe also wants corps to adopt ubuntu as their desktops with support packagesJul 25 21:22
sebsebsebfewa: a tiny confusing with the name maybe, since it has desktop in it,  that servers are run with RedhatJul 25 21:23
sebsebseba tiny bit confusing maybe yep, same for NovellJul 25 21:23
fewa?Jul 25 21:23
fewaRedHat LinuxJul 25 21:23
fewaand Red Hat "Enterprise" LinuxJul 25 21:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux @ Dell is Back Cheaper Than Ever ($199 Sub-notebooks) http://ping.fm/p560oJul 25 21:24
sebsebsebRedhat Enterprise  Desktop Linux?   Redhat  Enterprise  Linux?Jul 25 21:24
ThistleWebyep, RH is the king of corporate server linux'sJul 25 21:24
sebsebsebwhere did I get desktop from, if that's wrong?Jul 25 21:24
fewaperhaps they had that brand tooJul 25 21:24
sebsebsebservers and companies hmm,  well  if they can get  educational establimsents running Ubuntu :D   also  a lot more home usersJul 25 21:25
ThistleWebDebian may be just as good, but corps prefer a sueable FTSE brand to a global communtiy of peepsJul 25 21:25
ThistleWebhence RHJul 25 21:25
fewaRH is on the S&P 500Jul 25 21:25
sebsebsebyep  I heard this kind of thing before, companies want someone  to blame/sue  if  things go badly wrongJul 25 21:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Laptops Are Now Cheaper Than Vista 7 (or Why Microsoft's Business Model is Kaput) http://ping.fm/WHI6pJul 25 21:26
ThistleWebit's the core of RH businessJul 25 21:26
fewaThistleWeb, you mean they dont like populist control :PJul 25 21:26
ThistleWebthe server marketJul 25 21:26
sebsebsebwith some  good education  when it comes to computers,   I can see   Desktop Linux hitting off a lot more :)Jul 25 21:26
fewasebsebseb, and less government MSFT moneyJul 25 21:27
fewaThey spend alot of tax-deductable dollars to make sure nothing changesJul 25 21:27
sebsebsebyep   Microsoft and it's  vender lock in   stuffJul 25 21:27
*hklsfd has quit ("Page closed")Jul 25 21:27
ThistleWebthey like someone to call 24/7 when a prob happens and know they have someone there to fix itJul 25 21:28
sebsebsebpractices?  is that a better word instead of stuff in that context?   I  think that's another word that can be usedJul 25 21:28
ThistleWebsomething RH specialise inJul 25 21:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Finds LEGS While Windows Remains ARMless http://ping.fm/8KDsjJul 25 21:29
fewaschestowitz, nice punJul 25 21:29
ThistleWebI've said it before, and I'll say it again, RH don;t get anywhere near enough credit for all they do for Linux in generalJul 25 21:30
fewaThistleWeb, absolutelyJul 25 21:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Ok, cheese aside, the other guilty pleasure is You've Been Framed. Does that make me a bad man?Jul 25 21:30
fewai go throught copyright files and its full of Red HatJul 25 21:30
fewaall over Debian and UbuntuJul 25 21:30
ThistleWebRH have their paws in a LOT of stuff peeps take for grantedJul 25 21:30
ThistleWebacross the Linux spectrumJul 25 21:30
fewaRH contributes highly to Linux and the GNU/Linux platformJul 25 21:31
ThistleWebevery time I hear an interview with someone from RH on a podcast it reminds me just how important RH are to LinuxJul 25 21:32
fewahopefully a Ubuntu success will not come at the expense of RHJul 25 21:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Exposing the Internals of Fog Computing is Important http://ping.fm/CbB5aJul 25 21:33
ThistleWebRH also keep the larger Linux community in mind with corporate decisions tooJul 25 21:34
ThistleWeblike patent agreementsJul 25 21:34
fewaand they are steadfast on open source driversJul 25 21:34
ThistleWebnot just themselvesJul 25 21:34
fewawhich benifits everyoneJul 25 21:34
ThistleWebexactlyJul 25 21:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Inherent in More Hardware http://ping.fm/ZfMGYJul 25 21:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Success in Indian Schools http://ping.fm/pGk9v Software Proving to be Great 131.htmlJul 25 21:39
fewayou messed up the linkJul 25 21:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Proving to be Great Success in Indian Schools http://ping.fm/aEZDhJul 25 21:40
schestowitzfewa: yes, I fixed itJul 25 21:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Glyn Moody ( @glynmoody ) on Why the Triumph of GPLv3 is Wonderful News http://ping.fm/8eVJWJul 25 21:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Importance of Freedom in Data, As Explained by Schindler http://ping.fm/YmZjFJul 25 21:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software is Clearly Taking Over http://ping.fm/iDdRiJul 25 21:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Carla Schroeder Explains Why Choosing the GPL for Programming is Good, C++0x is Good http://ping.fm/L2IInJul 25 21:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Newspapers -- Like Proprietary Software -- Allow Themselves to Die http://ping.fm/nsOnj http://ping.fm/Bk403 http://ping.fm/Tmxe8Jul 25 21:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Publication: "Should Copyright Of Academic Works Be Abolished?" http://ping.fm/gFK8tJul 25 21:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RIAA -- Like Microsoft -- Discovers That Attacking/Illegalising Competitors is Easier Than Competing http://ping.fm/U17ME http://ping.fm ...Jul 25 21:54
sebsebsebschestowitz: all those notices flooding the channal,  get's a bit  annoying, to be honest with youJul 25 21:55
schestowitzYou're here to bait us anywayJul 25 21:56
sebsebsebschestowitz: what?Jul 25 21:56
schestowitzYou also complained about ops and daemonised us in other channelsJul 25 21:56
sebsebsebschestowitz: and did what in other channals?Jul 25 21:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Public Counter-strikes Against X-Strike Laws http://ping.fm/aXHk4 http://ping.fm/encnU http://ping.fm/cNMe1Jul 25 21:57
schestowitzYou showed meJul 25 21:57
sebsebsebohJul 25 21:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: oh I think I know what your refering toJul 25 21:57
fewasebsebseb, its trueJul 25 21:57
fewahere to bait...Jul 25 21:58
_Goblinlol...he isn't very good though.Jul 25 21:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: and  that was in a tiny channal,  in fact  the one where I found out about this channal originalley,  and where someone  said something about trolls and this channalJul 25 21:59
sebsebsebPeople here trolls?  I don't think so,  I have also had some  pretty interesting discussions here so farJul 25 21:59
sebsebsebI'll be clear again, I am not here to troll :)Jul 25 21:59
_GoblinRoy, what did he say?Jul 25 21:59
sebsebsebI  just sometimes might say something slightly stupid or whateverJul 25 21:59
schestowitzsebsebseb: no trollingJul 25 21:59
fewasebsebseb, you mean trollJul 25 21:59
schestowitzit's funny when people say BN trollsJul 25 22:00
schestowitzit expresses an opinionJul 25 22:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Indoctrination Powerhouse Disney Deletes Its Own Commercials http://ping.fm/TFzrgJul 25 22:00
schestowitzIn its OWN turfJul 25 22:00
schestowitzTrolling is where you bother other people in their turf and ask for toilet paperJul 25 22:00
sebsebsebhehJul 25 22:00
schestowitzThat's what some people do here... but they are not US!Jul 25 22:00
schestowitzThey are here to disruptJul 25 22:00
schestowitzSee "commenting policy" in the WikiJul 25 22:01
sebsebsebschestowitz: the notice thing  I guess is part of the channel,  so fine fair enoughJul 25 22:01
ThistleWebbblJul 25 22:02
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sebsebsebI have been in quite a few general chat type channels on this network,  and not  particulery liked them,  but this one is pretty good :)Jul 25 22:03
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Video Games Get Riddled with Software Patents http://ping.fm/PJwlAJul 25 22:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Attempts to Divide the Free Software Community Amid Microsoft's Demise http://ping.fm/d3WLIJul 25 22:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Microsoft Layoffs Possible as Coming Quarter Will be Poor (No New Products) http://ping.fm/on6T2Jul 25 22:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] European Commission Gets Its Way Against Convicted Monopolist Microsoft http://ping.fm/OlotQJul 25 22:11
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Compatibility Broken Before Arrival (or on RTM) http://ping.fm/ffEbDJul 25 22:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is Losing Market Share in Phones (to Linux, Others) http://ping.fm/Kb0nfJul 25 22:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Shows a Form of Treason in India http://ping.fm/L09GbJul 25 22:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Company of Microsoft Cofounder Stuck in $21.7 Billion Debt http://ping.fm/eUoc0Jul 25 22:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Software So Holey That Emergency Patches Are Coming http://ping.fm/ENBtZJul 25 22:21
fewa*holy :PJul 25 22:21
schestowitzNo. :-)Jul 25 22:21
schestowitzHolesJul 25 22:21
fewaif only you took the shills literallyJul 25 22:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Admits Microsoft Office Can't be Secured (File Formats to Blame) http://ping.fm/akeTqJul 25 22:24
sebsebsebschestowitz: why do you do the notices?  tos how people where you get info for your  articles?Jul 25 22:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple Ditched for Its Hostility Towards Freedom, Choice, Competition http://ping.fm/pUXhvJul 25 22:25
schestowitzSome may like them in IRC, sebsebseb Jul 25 22:25
sebsebsebschestowitz: do you use these links though for  your  stuff?Jul 25 22:25
schestowitzI might laterJul 25 22:26
schestowitzI otherwise don't have them as notesJul 25 22:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple and Microsoft Resolve Their Fight Over Mass PR(opaganda) http://ping.fm/a3MIwJul 25 22:28
sebsebsebschestowitz: oh put in here   and use like a notepad as well?  ok fine fair enoughJul 25 22:28
schestowitzI use KateJul 25 22:29
schestowitzBut I share it here while it's new. Might take 1-2 days to blogJul 25 22:29
*fewa <= geditJul 25 22:29
sebsebsebschestowitz: that makes senseJul 25 22:29
sebsebsebfewa: same hereJul 25 22:29
schestowitzChurch of Kate is betterJul 25 22:30
schestowitzemacs and vi are medievalJul 25 22:30
sebsebsebChurch of Kate hmm?   well I heard of Church of Emacs beforeJul 25 22:30
schestowitzIn Church of Kate the leader of the cult is a femaleJul 25 22:30
*schestowitz even writes blog posts in KateJul 25 22:31
sebsebsebohJul 25 22:31
*schestowitz waits until Kate becomes an OSJul 25 22:31
schestowitzKateOS existsJul 25 22:31
sebsebseblike Chrome?Jul 25 22:31
schestowitzBut no updates in agesJul 25 22:31
sebsebsebah yesJul 25 22:31
sebsebsebKateOS teh Slackware based oneJul 25 22:31
sebsebseb?Jul 25 22:31
sebsebseband it's Polish as well or whateverJul 25 22:33
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schestowitzYesJul 25 22:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Microsoft is Dying" http://ping.fm/ooz38Jul 25 22:35
sebsebsebschestowitz: okJul 25 22:35
*BRBT_ is now known as Balrog_Jul 25 22:35
sebsebsebto the kate thingJul 25 22:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Collapses After Worst Results Ever http://ping.fm/QQHDgJul 25 22:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] After Billions in Losses, Microsoft XBox Unit Continues to Bleed Money http://ping.fm/buuDIJul 25 22:37
_GoblinXbox could never make any money (IMO) since it had so many hardware failures/returns.....Jul 25 22:38
_Goblinand just when it seemed to get itself sorted, along came the WIIJul 25 22:38
schestowitzTHey sell it at a losssJul 25 22:39
schestowitzOr else they would go nowhere when it comes to market shareJul 25 22:39
schestowitzMarket share != profitJul 25 22:39
schestowitzThey could keep WIndows market shareJul 25 22:40
schestowitzBut is they do, they could STILL lose moneyJul 25 22:40
schestowitzMany people use mysqlJul 25 22:40
schestowitzIt never made mysql AB richJul 25 22:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Abusive Conduct Has It Pay Mississippi $40 Million in Vounchers http://ping.fm/rWTpl http://ping.fm/qKogSJul 25 22:41
schestowitz*VouchersJul 25 22:41
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Microsoft Bong [sic] May Not Survive http://ping.fm/DppyI http://ping.fm/QSWTDJul 25 22:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Shortly After Terrible Results Microsoft Successfully Sues the World for Cash http://ping.fm/C0mXdJul 25 22:47
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schestowitzThis is brilliant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqNKD_nmXqM&feature=related (Bill Maher interviews Christoper Hitchens)Jul 25 22:58
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pcolonIs logging into BN's opening page different from logging to comment?Jul 25 23:19
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schestowitzYesJul 25 23:26
schestowitzWiki and blog are separateJul 25 23:26
pcolonThanksJul 25 23:27
Balrogschestowitz: what's this with Linus saying that what M$ did was ok ....?Jul 25 23:27
schestowitzIt's not about thatJul 25 23:28
schestowitzIt's more generalJul 25 23:28
schestowitzLinus never understood FS politicsJul 25 23:28
schestowitzHe didn't pretend to, eitherJul 25 23:28
schestowitzhe's focused on engineeringJul 25 23:28
schestowitzThat's fineJul 25 23:28
Balroghmm ok.Jul 25 23:29
notzedoh i think he understands it.  he just doesn't agree with it.  this whole 'he's only a pragmatist' stuff is nonsense.  you don't get to effectively lead an organisation as big as the linux kernel devs without politicsJul 25 23:49
Guest123understanding it and not having the same point of view are two different things, and Linus understands FS perfectly, few would understand FS politics less than Linus.Jul 25 23:53
Guest123** more than Linus :)Jul 25 23:55

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