| Ha ha, Europe will eat IE after all. http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136168/Microsoft_kills_Windows_7E_puts_IE_back_in_upcoming_OS | Aug 02 00:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Evolution Is Making Women Hotter: http://is.gd/1YeXV | Aug 02 00:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Office Breaks Cross-platform Compatibility, OpenOffice.org Gains New UI, Microsoft Fights ODF While PSPP Adopts It http://ping ... | Aug 02 00:04 | |
| ping fail | Aug 02 00:05 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Aug 02 00:05 |
| -> Betting that European antitrust regulators will okay its proposal for a "ballot screen" and facing opposition from computer makers and corporate customers, Microsoft late Friday abandoned plans to ship Windows 7 without IE | Aug 02 00:06 | |
| schestowitz | They'll get slapped | Aug 02 00:06 |
| The fun news always comes out on Friday afternoon, Redmond time. | Aug 02 00:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MS Office Breaks Cross-platform Compatibility, OpenOffice.org Gains New UI, Microsoft Fights ODF While PSPP Adopts It http://ping.fm/4Sc0N | Aug 02 00:06 | |
| schestowitz | Opera's (And EU's) turn | Aug 02 00:06 |
| hope so | Aug 02 00:06 | |
| schestowitz | They could get fined | Aug 02 00:06 |
| schestowitz | THey already committed their crimes for IE | Aug 02 00:06 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder if some "bugs" in the ballot screen will install IE "accidentally" if anything other than IE is chosen, and intentionally if IE is chosen | Aug 02 00:09 |
| ThistleWeb | which they'll no doubt have a fix for "sometime next year" | Aug 02 00:09 |
| ThistleWeb | whoopsie | Aug 02 00:09 |
| ThistleWeb | consumer picks firefox, they get firefox and IE | Aug 02 00:09 |
| ThistleWeb | with firefox set as the default, until some other update a while later switches it "accidentlly" to IE | Aug 02 00:10 |
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| ThistleWeb | either that, or IE will "accidentally" be listed as a critical update to Windows, so it installs itself later anyway, even if it's not chosen by the consumer | Aug 02 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Or MS will cost cut the IE branch. | Aug 02 00:13 |
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| oiaohm | Or MS will try to make IE trident engine as part of using MS Office so people working in Offices would have great intergration and not need another web browser. | Aug 02 00:15 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, integrated malware | Aug 02 00:16 |
| a choice of non free browsers on top of Vista 7 is hardly a real choice, much less software freedom. | Aug 02 00:17 | |
| ThistleWeb | nah, MS make Opera too right? | Aug 02 00:17 |
| oiaohm | Choice is choice twitter | Aug 02 00:17 |
| oiaohm | Biggest problem we have is a lot of people don't believe they have a choice. | Aug 02 00:18 |
| ThistleWeb | it aint about free software, it's about giving the customer a choice | Aug 02 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Once customer knows they can have a choice they can ask for more choice so weaking MS location. | Aug 02 00:18 |
| ThistleWeb | of course we'd prefer their choice to be free, but they will pick on features and reputation | Aug 02 00:18 |
| ThistleWeb | in which case firefox will stand in good sted | Aug 02 00:19 |
| ThistleWeb | opera is mentioned a lot in forums and blog posts | Aug 02 00:19 |
| oiaohm | Big issues I have is that OEM can take away browser selection from users. | Aug 02 00:19 |
| ThistleWeb | as a good browser, which it is | Aug 02 00:19 |
| If you don't have software freedom, you can't make real choices. | Aug 02 00:19 | |
| oiaohm | I can see MS offering cut price Windows for OEM locking it. | Aug 02 00:19 |
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| ThistleWeb | twitter: lol | Aug 02 00:20 |
| As you pointed out IE will some how become a default. | Aug 02 00:20 | |
| oiaohm | Its a good first step. | Aug 02 00:20 |
| ThistleWeb | OEMs will be pressured to click that IE ballot button before the customer sees their PC | Aug 02 00:20 |
| oiaohm | But we know MS we cannot take the presure off yet. | Aug 02 00:20 |
| Software that has owners makes choices for you and there's nothing you can do about it other than replace it with free software. | Aug 02 00:20 | |
| ThistleWeb | the EU will have to be wise to that | Aug 02 00:21 |
| Obviously. | Aug 02 00:21 | |
| oiaohm | Big issue is trident engine is not replacable. | Aug 02 00:21 |
| ThistleWeb | twitter: I suppose you'd want a ballot screen with a library of lectures about free software, and how it's important before the screen comes up letting them choose? | Aug 02 00:21 |
| oiaohm | Removing the front end does not stop other programs using the flawed back end. | Aug 02 00:21 |
| But the EU would do better to crack down on OEM manipulation and bust M$ for anti-trust the US has already found them guilty of. | Aug 02 00:22 | |
| ThistleWeb | so you have to sit through hours of video beofe the button comes up | Aug 02 00:22 |
| ThistleWeb | plenty of peeps think "free" means cost | Aug 02 00:22 |
| ThistleWeb | in which case ALL their choices will be free | Aug 02 00:22 |
| What I want is to be able to buy a computer with my choice of OS. | Aug 02 00:22 | |
| oiaohm | twitter: all these restrictions the EU are placing on MS come from being classed as in breach. | Aug 02 00:22 |
| ThistleWeb | choice is about being able to choose non-free | Aug 02 00:23 |
| ThistleWeb | if they want to | Aug 02 00:23 |
| ThistleWeb | or not giving a shit about free | Aug 02 00:23 |
| ThistleWeb | pick on reputation | Aug 02 00:23 |
| oiaohm | You cannot force choice on consumers if consumers don't know about choice. | Aug 02 00:23 |
| ThistleWeb | the goal of free is to be the better option on merit | Aug 02 00:23 |
| ThistleWeb | which firefox is | Aug 02 00:23 |
| oiaohm | EU is working in the direction of what you want twitter. | Aug 02 00:23 |
| I don't think you read what I wrote. | Aug 02 00:24 | |
| oiaohm | I did but you don't understand what the EU is exactly upto. | Aug 02 00:24 |
| ThistleWeb | anyone who gets in peoples faces preaching to them on a subject they don't care about is apt to be ignored | Aug 02 00:25 |
| oiaohm | People don't normally live threw changing OS's if they don't know the applications in the OS they are changing to. | Aug 02 00:25 |
| oiaohm | You have to crack the top level first. | Aug 02 00:25 |
| ThistleWeb | by forcing free software down their throats you are preaching to them | Aug 02 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Before you can go after the OS and get users choosing freely | Aug 02 00:25 |
| ThistleWeb | not only that, but denying them a choice if you dont agree with it | Aug 02 00:26 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the EU people suspect that Linux broad cpu support will give it the advantage anyhow once you crack the application level. | Aug 02 00:26 |
| oiaohm | Windows N and the Ballot are both about trying to break the application level. | Aug 02 00:27 |
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| oiaohm | Good saying. Users don't use the OS they use Applications. | Aug 02 00:28 |
| you are putting words into my mouth ThistleWeb. | Aug 02 00:28 | |
| oiaohm | It is so true. | Aug 02 00:28 |
| ThistleWeb | call me curious, but for someone so hardline about software freedom, why do you share the name of a closed source service? | Aug 02 00:28 |
| I had the name first. | Aug 02 00:28 | |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, so you said before, but peeps associate the name twitter with the service, not you | Aug 02 00:29 |
| ThistleWeb | you dont mind being associated with a closed service | Aug 02 00:29 |
| *** twitter ignores ThistleWeb | Aug 02 00:29 | |
| ThistleWeb | while preaching free | Aug 02 00:29 |
| oiaohm | ThistleWeb: why not. | Aug 02 00:29 |
| oiaohm | He had name first. Normal rules of the internet apply you handle can be anything. | Aug 02 00:30 |
| Vista 7 Hype goes into overdrive. http://reviews.cnet.com/windows/microsoft-windows-7-professional/4505-3672_7-33704140.html | Aug 02 00:30 | |
| ThistleWeb | I'd have thought a name change would be considered after the twitter service got popular | Aug 02 00:30 |
| oiaohm | twitter talking about twitter could get interesting. | Aug 02 00:30 |
| ThistleWeb | twitter is a well known closed service | Aug 02 00:31 |
| -> Windows 7 is more than just spin. It's stable, smooth, and highly polished, introducing new graphical features, a new taskbar that can compete handily with the Mac OS X dock, and device management and security enhancements that make it both easier to use and safer. Importantly, it won't require the hardware upgrades that Vista demanded, | Aug 02 00:31 | |
| All the usual lies. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Aug 02 00:31 | |
| ThistleWeb | as a free preacher I'd feel kinda ashamed to have the name of a closed service | Aug 02 00:31 |
| ThistleWeb | there's practical advocacy, and there's preaching | Aug 02 00:32 |
| ThistleWeb | anyhoo, back to the subject | Aug 02 00:32 |
| oiaohm | A true free preacher know history. Most closed operations don't have the long term staying power. | Aug 02 00:37 |
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| oiaohm | twitter site will be replaced in time by the next most popular thing. | Aug 02 00:38 |
| ThistleWeb | it always will be, and we'll still have twitter preaching free from a failed closed service | Aug 02 00:39 |
| ThistleWeb | the name of a * | Aug 02 00:39 |
| ThistleWeb | at least now, it's hanging onto the cota tails of a successful and popular closed service | Aug 02 00:39 |
| ThistleWeb | branding is all about association of words, "twitter" peeps associate with the closed service, not this guy | Aug 02 00:40 |
| ThistleWeb | who knows, maybe the twitter service will one day demand the twitter freenode account transferred to them under some trademark laws | Aug 02 00:43 |
| ThistleWeb | to help them protect their brand | Aug 02 00:43 |
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| _goblin | hi all.... | Aug 02 00:44 |
| ThistleWeb | hey _g | Aug 02 00:44 |
| _goblin | just got in from work... | Aug 02 00:45 |
| _goblin | listening to George Galloway on the way home....he's a great man.... | Aug 02 00:45 |
| ThistleWeb | _goblin: was he purring? | Aug 02 00:46 |
| _goblin | dangerous dogs, euthenasia..... | Aug 02 00:47 |
| _goblin | and a few other subjects.... | Aug 02 00:47 |
| _goblin | I really respect him....I don't agree with everything he says but I do like the way he stands by it. | Aug 02 00:47 |
| _goblin | he is an awesome debater. | Aug 02 00:47 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, he is one of the few principled politicians | Aug 02 00:47 |
| _goblin | shook his hand once... | Aug 02 00:48 |
| _goblin | very modest man. | Aug 02 00:48 |
| _goblin | Moshe Goldfarb is really trying on COLA.... | Aug 02 00:50 |
| _goblin | I really hope Hadron is a different person and not a sock puppet of his... | Aug 02 00:50 |
| _goblin | otherwise the only person who reads and agrees with what he says is himself. | Aug 02 00:50 |
| ThistleWeb | it's easier to convince yourself | Aug 02 00:52 |
| ThistleWeb | you know you're in trouble when you talk yourself into a corner | Aug 02 00:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Ugly Reality of the Yahoo-Microsoft Deal http://ping.fm/F3mgU | Aug 02 00:59 | |
| _goblin | I really need to get up to date with this "Lefty" business. I had too much on at the time and missed the main part of what actually happened. | Aug 02 00:59 |
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| oiaohm | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/07/28/july_2009_web_server_survey.html << Boy I knew it had to be bad to be released late but I did not dream this bad. | Aug 02 01:07 |
| oiaohm | Anthoer month like july and MS could be back to market percent in web servers they had in 1996-1997 | Aug 02 01:12 |
| cubezzz | microsoft not doing well? awwww | Aug 02 01:21 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: these graphs are not accurate | Aug 02 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does a lot worse | Aug 02 01:22 |
| schestowitz | I hear they have just teens (10%-20%) in server market share | Aug 02 01:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] if you have ever had the misfortune to work within 1000 miles of advertising or meeja: http://businessguysonbusinesstrips.com/ | Aug 02 01:23 | |
| schestowitz | See "Totals for Active Servers Across All Domains June 2000 - July 2009" | Aug 02 01:23 |
| cubezzz | they seemed to have peaked in 2000-01 and in 2007 | Aug 02 01:23 |
| schestowitz | What happened there?/ | Aug 02 01:23 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: GoDaddy deal around that time | Aug 02 01:24 |
| schestowitz | I.e. Microsoft buys millions of parked domains | Aug 02 01:24 |
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| oiaohm | Also that was the time asp was popular around 2000-01 as well. | Aug 02 01:26 |
| oiaohm | The .net buzz is wearing off at the moment as well. | Aug 02 01:27 |
| cubezzz | I also note that apache was close to 70% market share around 2005 | Aug 02 01:27 |
| fewa | lots of lighttpd, nginx too | Aug 02 01:27 |
| cubezzz | so microsoft was coming on strong, but now is in decline | Aug 02 01:27 |
| fewa | now | Aug 02 01:27 |
| oiaohm | All the open source web servers were reporting to be appache in 2005 as well. | Aug 02 01:28 |
| oiaohm | Including google. | Aug 02 01:28 |
| fewa | exactly | Aug 02 01:28 |
| cubezzz | does netcraft track browser market share? | Aug 02 01:28 |
| oiaohm | So appache numbers really did not change. | Aug 02 01:28 |
| oiaohm | apaches growth numbers also has been fairly stable 1 or 2 million a month. | Aug 02 01:30 |
| cubezzz | I guess that would be hard to track | Aug 02 01:30 |
| oiaohm | People attempt. | Aug 02 01:30 |
| oiaohm | The problem is squid proxies. | Aug 02 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Ie is the proxy 1 or 1 billion users. Using cookies can be cleared. So you numbers are basically 100 percent shot. | Aug 02 01:31 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Java just got #1 spot for popular IT skill | Aug 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux was #2 in that survey | Aug 02 01:32 |
| schestowitz | .NET is down | Aug 02 01:32 |
| oiaohm | Counting web browers is like trying to count the numbers of Linux installs out there. | Aug 02 01:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FCC Takes on Apple Just Weeks After Microsoft Executive Becomes Managing Director of the FCC http://ping.fm/CgazB | Aug 02 01:32 | |
| Perhaps M$ pushes Mono as an escape from Winblows, which is failing. | Aug 02 01:33 | |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: too site- and location-dependent | Aug 02 01:33 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, I've been hearing around 60% +- for IE these days | Aug 02 01:33 |
| fewa | twitter, its just more blow | Aug 02 01:34 |
| People leave Windows because of it's poor performance and low security. | Aug 02 01:34 | |
| oiaohm | cubezzz super fuzzy figure. | Aug 02 01:34 |
| fewa | ie BS | Aug 02 01:35 |
| cubezzz | http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0 | Aug 02 01:35 |
| oiaohm | You would have to give a + or - 20 numbers. Mixture of sites suggest more in the direction of -20 ie under 50 percent somewhere. | Aug 02 01:35 |
| fewa | .NET sites tend to be unfuntional | Aug 02 01:35 |
| fewa | like requiring a cookie reload on first view | Aug 02 01:36 |
| oiaohm | .Net is evil to make work perfectly with opera and firefox as well. | Aug 02 01:37 |
| ick, cubezzz -that site gave me a Vista themed popup. | Aug 02 01:37 | |
| cubezzz | sorry dude :) | Aug 02 01:37 |
| black bar with a half done and glowing red angry close button. | Aug 02 01:37 | |
| cubezzz | but it's good that firefox is over 20% then the IE only sites will decrease in number | Aug 02 01:38 |
| Roy has covered how these sites misjudge real deployments by partnering with mostly big media sites. | Aug 02 01:39 | |
| Like he says, site and region dependent. | Aug 02 01:39 | |
| fewa | like MSFT sites | Aug 02 01:40 |
| fewa | totally unfunctional | Aug 02 01:40 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers << cubezzz | Aug 02 01:40 |
| oiaohm | As you can see the stat sites disagree | Aug 02 01:40 |
| fewa | http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://www.microsoft.com/interop/ | Aug 02 01:41 |
| fewa | seriously | Aug 02 01:41 |
| It's funny how some people are still trying to spin the latest Vista 7 rejection news http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=218800198 | Aug 02 01:41 | |
| 54 errors, 15 warnings. ha | Aug 02 01:41 | |
| fewa | "Microsoft Interoperability" | Aug 02 01:42 |
| There's been a lot of web breakage lately. The most insulting of which reject my browsers to recommend IE 6. | Aug 02 01:42 | |
| These are mostly sites I would not care about if I were not interested in their failures and lies. | Aug 02 01:43 | |
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| schestowitz | See you in the morning (better posts to come then) | Aug 02 01:51 |
| oiaohm | More fun twitter try doing a MS partner exam on firefox. You get to enter all the answers then it fails to accept them. | Aug 02 01:55 |
| oiaohm | http://xmlvm.org/overview/ I am going to have to play with this. | Aug 02 01:58 |
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| fewa | MSFT also does browser detection | Aug 02 02:02 |
| fewa | if you send a email from iceweasel in hotmail it sends blank | Aug 02 02:03 |
| fewa | *bad browser detection | Aug 02 02:03 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Bobby McFerrin demonstrates the universal pentatonic scale http://vimeo.com/5732745 | Aug 02 02:40 | |
| cubezzz | hmmm, median is 65% | Aug 02 02:47 |
| flash | Aug 02 02:50 | |
| fewa | twitter, should i transcode from MPEG-4? | Aug 02 02:52 |
| A direct link to the mpeg4 or a theora would be very nice, thank you. | Aug 02 02:53 | |
| fewa | http://bitcast.vimeo.com/vimeo/v/471/995/4719956.mp4?e=1249183508&h=10f893df07dc79ec5f47713ba2170fc7 | Aug 02 03:04 |
| fewa | that was PITA | Aug 02 03:04 |
| fewa | http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/34765 | Aug 02 03:07 |
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| Oxford Skype is Winblows only. http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/network/voip/skype.xml.ID=download | Aug 02 04:04 | |
| kind of stupid for them to use Windows and worry about bandwith. | Aug 02 04:05 | |
| -> you must not have Skype Start automatically with the computer as this may make your machine consume excessive network resources, making it more likely that a Skype ban would have to be re-introduced. | Aug 02 04:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] The Petra trip was friggin' AMAZING!! :D | Aug 02 04:15 | |
| :) | Aug 02 04:15 | |
| *Eruaran studies the electric universe | Aug 02 04:15 | |
| a fun submission http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1714541 | Aug 02 04:19 | |
| Eruaran | lol | Aug 02 04:22 |
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| ziggyfish | does anyone like the new UI for OOo | Aug 02 04:24 |
| ziggyfish | I know I don't, it's horrible, absolutely horrible. | Aug 02 04:24 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: for 3.0 or? | Aug 02 04:25 |
| ziggyfish | http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_ui_july | Aug 02 04:25 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: at the moment I am wondering about what the Firefox 4.0 GUI will look like http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8176014.stm | Aug 02 04:26 |
| sebsebseb | whoops wrong link | Aug 02 04:26 |
| sebsebseb | ,but that's interesting as well | Aug 02 04:27 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: this link http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8177829.stm | Aug 02 04:28 |
| fewa | twitter, geeze, why dont they just use SIP? | Aug 02 04:28 |
| ziggyfish | sebsebseb, has the world gone mad? | Aug 02 04:32 |
| ziggyfish | at uni we are using the latest version of Microsoft Project because of the UI. | Aug 02 04:32 |
| sebsebseb | So Firefox copying Chrome, and Open Office copying Office 2007 hmm | Aug 02 04:35 |
| sebsebseb | grr need to intall Java to try their prototype | Aug 02 04:35 |
| sebsebseb | and also Ubuntu want's to become more Mac OS X like | Aug 02 04:35 |
| ziggyfish | *we arn't* | Aug 02 04:35 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: you aren't what? | Aug 02 04:36 |
| sebsebseb | copying or making something that looks very similar to propritary software, not really the best thing | Aug 02 04:36 |
| ziggyfish | at uni we aren't using the latest version of Microsoft Project because of the UI | Aug 02 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: to begin with you said that was the reason | Aug 02 04:38 |
| Eruaran | I think the whole big fat ribbon along the top is a bad idea in relation to the kinds of widescreen monitors people are looking at these days | Aug 02 04:38 |
| Eruaran | It doesn't make sense | Aug 02 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | the GUI for Office 2003 was good enough really | Aug 02 04:39 |
| I like the way KDE's kicker scales down and can be put where you want it. | Aug 02 04:39 | |
| Eruaran | It think KOffice is more on the right track - placing most buttons and tools down the right side rather than along the top... even though I think it could be implemented in a more usable fashion | Aug 02 04:40 |
| It's hard to be all things to all people, so flexibility is key. That's what makes KDE rock. | Aug 02 04:41 | |
| sebsebseb | if Open Office starts looking to much like Microsoft Office I probably won't be that happy | Aug 02 04:41 |
| Eruaran | Yes I think a "put it where you want it" interface is the way to go... (which KDE has already been pursuing) | Aug 02 04:41 |
| sebsebseb | why make it look like Microsoft Office? | Aug 02 04:41 |
| Eruaran | I like the Plasma approach | Aug 02 04:42 |
| sebsebseb | many people already think it's just a free version of Microsoft Office that isn't as good, because they don't understand about open source | Aug 02 04:42 |
| Eruaran | Don't like where that toolbar is ? No problem, just grab it and move it somewhere else. | Aug 02 04:42 |
| Who are these "many people" and who told you what they think? | Aug 02 04:42 | |
| M$ would like to say silly things like that but we know better and should reject it. | Aug 02 04:43 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: in general most people that know about Open Office, are going to prefer Microsoft Office | Aug 02 04:43 |
| ziggyfish | Eruaran, agreed | Aug 02 04:43 |
| ziggyfish | the ribbon takes up way to much space, very hard to find things. | Aug 02 04:43 |
| sebsebseb | and many people probably see Open Office as something that can be used, for people that can't afford to buy Microsoft Office, and that out of the two Microsoft's is better | Aug 02 04:43 |
| no, people who like M$ Office will like M$ Office. | Aug 02 04:43 | |
| But even they hate the new version of M$ Office and would prefer Open Office at the moment. | Aug 02 04:44 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: many people are locked into MS Office, and refuse to do Open Office or other alternatives | Aug 02 04:44 |
| It is something that should be capitalized on, but IBM and Sun drop the ball. | Aug 02 04:44 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: not sure about that, Office 2007 has sold pretty well as far as I know | Aug 02 04:44 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: what you mean capitalzied on? | Aug 02 04:44 |
| Yes, M$ Office people are strange and irrational people who don't want to use anything that does not come from M$. | Aug 02 04:45 | |
| sebsebseb | twitter: well Firefox is an exception | Aug 02 04:45 |
| I think Sun should have advertised how much more familiar the OO interface was and pushed it while M$ customers are unhappy with the new Office ribbon. | Aug 02 04:45 | |
| sebsebseb | well some like the ribbon | Aug 02 04:45 |
| Every M$ Office user hates the new Office. I've seen people curse at it and I've never seen a person like it. | Aug 02 04:46 | |
| It killed all of their shortcuts. | Aug 02 04:46 | |
| sebsebseb | I have been able to avoide it nicely since the release :) | Aug 02 04:46 |
| sebsebseb | I have a feeling though that both my parants think it's better than 2003 | Aug 02 04:46 |
| You should ask them before you tell people that. | Aug 02 04:47 | |
| Eruaran | Would it be possible to give OOo a KDE4 front end that lets you manipulate the interface ? | Aug 02 04:47 |
| sebsebseb | twitter: not much point, they are also locked into XP | Aug 02 04:47 |
| There's always a point to knowing what people think before you report it as a fact. | Aug 02 04:47 | |
| Like I've said. I've never seen anyone outside of the Wintel press say anything good about the new office. | Aug 02 04:48 | |
| sebsebseb | anyway if Firefox or Open Office or other open source programs, go down hill enough, to the extent where loads of current users don't like them, well they can be forked, that's one advantage of open source | Aug 02 04:48 |
| sebsebseb | if the ribbon is so bad, this Open Office idea hmm | Aug 02 04:49 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, yeah, dont spread heresay | Aug 02 04:50 |
| *sebsebseb needs to try that prototype, but installing Java in Ubuntu can be a bit of a pain, in fact I been thinking about what it's called the Sun one | Aug 02 04:50 | |
| ziggyfish | sebsebseb, let me hold your hand though the process :P | Aug 02 04:51 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: lol | Aug 02 04:51 |
| sebsebseb | it's been a while since I installed java | Aug 02 04:51 |
| sebsebseb | so I forgot the package name | Aug 02 04:51 |
| ziggyfish | click on System->Administration->'Synaptic Package Manager' | Aug 02 04:52 |
| ziggyfish | let me know when you have gotten that far | Aug 02 04:52 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: heh I am not an Ubuntu noob :) | Aug 02 04:53 |
| sebsebseb | anyway I remembered jre | Aug 02 04:53 |
| sebsebseb | :) | Aug 02 04:53 |
| ziggyfish | * sebsebseb needs to try that prototype, but installing Java in Ubuntu can be a bit of a pain, in fact I been thinking about what it's called the Sun one | Aug 02 04:54 |
| sebsebseb | sun-java6-jre that's what it's called | Aug 02 04:54 |
| ziggyfish | what are you complaining about | Aug 02 04:54 |
| ziggyfish | yes | Aug 02 04:54 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: that I forgot the name of the package for java, but I got it now | Aug 02 04:54 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: I remember when had to use tab and something to accept their lisense, but not now | Aug 02 04:55 |
| ziggyfish | if you can't remember do a search for java | Aug 02 04:55 |
| sebsebseb | it's installed now | Aug 02 04:56 |
| ziggyfish | nice | Aug 02 04:56 |
| Eruaran | I'm having a play with the OOo Renaissance prototype | Aug 02 04:56 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: I didn't really need help with this, I was just saying, also these days I am rather likely to be helping other people, not the other way round, and that's been quite a while now | Aug 02 04:56 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, so did you read the EULA? | Aug 02 04:56 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: I think I have read it before | Aug 02 04:56 |
| sebsebseb | or quite a lot of it | Aug 02 04:57 |
| ziggyfish | sebsebseb, no problem, it's just that you complained about something so simple. that I had to take some fun out of it | Aug 02 04:57 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: I was already searching before you said | Aug 02 04:58 |
| sebsebseb | or whatever | Aug 02 04:58 |
| ziggyfish | look at it this way I believe that installing something on Linux is 10 times easyer than installing the same thing on windows. | Aug 02 04:58 |
| sebsebseb | same here | Aug 02 04:59 |
| ziggyfish | anyway you got it installed in the end. sorry | Aug 02 04:59 |
| sebsebseb | if doing something pre made | Aug 02 04:59 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, how about you learn to use google, | Aug 02 04:59 |
| sebsebseb | if compiling that depends on distro to some extent, if you end up with dependancy issues or not | Aug 02 04:59 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, when have you had that? I know i do not | Aug 02 05:00 |
| fewa | to install basic things | Aug 02 05:00 |
| sebsebseb | fewa: normalley i'll apt-get stuff | Aug 02 05:00 |
| *sebsebseb wanted to get away from Ubuntu, but... | Aug 02 05:01 | |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: why won't it just load up in the browser? why do I have to download the jnlp file, and then that don't do much good when I say open in Sun Java 6 web start. what did I do wrong? installed the wrong java package or something? | Aug 02 05:08 |
| *sebsebseb using this place for a little support, oh this could be interesting | Aug 02 05:08 | |
| ziggyfish | just wait | Aug 02 05:09 |
| ziggyfish | it will download it's self and run for you | Aug 02 05:10 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: first time I do it, it says it's downloading it, but it won't run for me | Aug 02 05:10 |
| fewa | sebsebseb, go to irc.mozilla.org#firefox | Aug 02 05:10 |
| sebsebseb | ziggyfish: opening the file again, won't do any good | Aug 02 05:10 |
| fewa | or #ubuntu | Aug 02 05:10 |
| sebsebseb | already in #ubuntu | Aug 02 05:10 |
| fewa | then ask there | Aug 02 05:10 |
| Eruaran | just put in my two cents reponse to the prototype Impress interface | Aug 02 05:23 |
| sebsebseb | lame general Linux channal is going to be useless right now as well for my issue it seems | Aug 02 05:23 |
| wow http://www.boingboing.net/2009/08/01/america-makes-nothin.html | Aug 02 05:25 | |
| ziggyfish | Eruaran, me as well | Aug 02 05:35 |
| ziggyfish | #linux is always good, have helped people out there, in my spare time | Aug 02 05:36 |
| *ziggyfish has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Aug 02 05:38 | |
| 23.7 trillion in public looting http://www.prwatch.org/node/8476 | Aug 02 06:36 | |
| somehow this seems appropriate http://english.chinamil.com.cn/special/jygg/index.htm | Aug 02 06:36 | |
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| schestowitz | That's a known fact... | Aug 02 07:54 |
| schestowitz | That US export is mostly arms and so-called "IP" | Aug 02 07:54 |
| schestowitz | The US produces very little because it's done more cheaply elsewhere | Aug 02 07:55 |
| schestowitz | Weapons were sold heavily to Turkey for strategic reasons after the Cold War | Aug 02 07:55 |
| schestowitz | These days it's Egypt and Israel for similar reasons (guarding oil resources) | Aug 02 07:55 |
| schestowitz | And Colombia too | Aug 02 07:55 |
| schestowitz | The vast majority of the world's arms seem to come from the west | Aug 02 07:56 |
| schestowitz | US military expenditure exceeds that of the rest of the world combined | Aug 02 07:57 |
| fewa | the United States is one of the countries with the most abundant natural resources | Aug 02 07:57 |
| oiaohm | So the US military is the best to take lend of gear and never return it. | Aug 02 07:57 |
| fewa | but instead we build the most inefficient system, that requires the importation of mass amounts of foreign oil | Aug 02 07:58 |
| fewa | suburbanizing, simultameously burning more fossil fuels, and destroying farm land | Aug 02 07:58 |
| schestowitz | Money should be funneled to healthcare rather than to DoD | Aug 02 07:59 |
| fewa | and this was no accident | Aug 02 07:59 |
| schestowitz | A lot of this budgets is 'black' in the sense the public is not even allowed access (visibility) to it. | Aug 02 08:00 |
| schestowitz | Maybe over a trillion per year | Aug 02 08:00 |
| fewa | Standard Oil and Firestone rubber agressively dismantled California/LA mass transit in the 20s | Aug 02 08:00 |
| schestowitz | fewa: "but instead we build the most inefficient system, that requires the importation of mass amounts of foreign oil" | Aug 02 08:00 |
| schestowitz | No, it's effetcive | Aug 02 08:00 |
| oiaohm | DoD is require. But so is health care. With USA state of health care how would they cope with a bioweapon attack. | Aug 02 08:00 |
| fewa | The huge interstate highway system sold as a "military system" | Aug 02 08:01 |
| schestowitz | And it controls things well | Aug 02 08:01 |
| schestowitz | Insurance companies are happy | Aug 02 08:01 |
| schestowitz | ANd people are controlled by debt, which is made the norm | Aug 02 08:01 |
| fewa | Fixing health care is the single most important thing to holding up the US economy | Aug 02 08:01 |
| schestowitz | So when people are grown up they are always saddled by debt and debt-masters (or mistresses) | Aug 02 08:01 |
| schestowitz | It's how it's designed | Aug 02 08:01 |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTh-Yu9RfF0 | Aug 02 08:01 |
| schestowitz | No healthcare, either | Aug 02 08:01 |
| fewa | There are efficient systems, even in the US | Aug 02 08:02 |
| schestowitz | You need to pay to keep healthy | Aug 02 08:02 |
| schestowitz | brb | Aug 02 08:02 |
| oiaohm | Here we have a base health care level. | Aug 02 08:02 |
| oiaohm | Catch is if you make over a particular ammount of income you are on your own. | Aug 02 08:03 |
| oiaohm | And have to pay for the goverment medical support. | Aug 02 08:03 |
| fewa | guess how they voted? http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090730/hr3200_weiner_1_rc.pdf | Aug 02 08:04 |
| oiaohm | There is no point having a army if your population is dead. | Aug 02 08:04 |
| schestowitz | Heh. Glenn Beck is such a stooge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcvKyH2LttI&feature=related | Aug 02 08:11 |
| fewa | Jon Stewart also pointed out the 45 second hypocricy | Aug 02 08:14 |
| fewa | guess you cant see it there | Aug 02 08:15 |
| fewa | but glen beck contradicts himself in one sitting | Aug 02 08:15 |
| fewa | http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-29-2009/so-you-think-you-can-douche | Aug 02 08:16 |
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| schestowitz | fewa: I guess Obama "really hates white people" since he grew in a house with white parents/grandparents, which make up half of his family. How can FAUX be so stupid? | Aug 02 08:36 |
| fewa | They are intellectually dead, they dont have anything left | Aug 02 08:36 |
| fewa | don't have anything left but fear | Aug 02 08:36 |
| fewa | That is the Republican party | Aug 02 08:37 |
| schestowitz | THey also hate atheists | Aug 02 08:37 |
| fewa | but many real conservatives _are_ athiests | Aug 02 08:37 |
| oiaohm | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9136116/Adobe_patches_12_Flash_bugs_3_caused_by_Microsoft?taxonomyId=86 << hmm nice cluster of bugs will be out there. | Aug 02 08:37 |
| schestowitz | They would rather you were part of a Satanic cult, as long as you don't suggest the world didn't start in a "poooof!" 6000 years ago | Aug 02 08:38 |
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| schestowitz | Gosh, the USPTO site is such utter crap | Aug 02 08:57 |
| schestowitz | They put quotes (") in the URLs!!!! | Aug 02 08:57 |
| schestowitz | Who designs this stuff? You can't even link to the patent | Aug 02 08:57 |
| tessier__ | Great article about btrfs on lwn.net http://lwn.net/Articles/342892/ | Aug 02 09:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: CityWare Under Siege, Kappos for Change We Can Believe in, and Skype http://ping.fm/kMhic | Aug 02 09:04 | |
| tessier__ | This will really help Linux to remain competitive | Aug 02 09:04 |
| tessier__ | I was worried about the state of Linux filesystems two years ago, especially with zfs on the loose | Aug 02 09:05 |
| tessier__ | But this looks to be shaping up even better than zfs | Aug 02 09:05 |
| schestowitz | tessier: what will Oracle do with ZFS? | Aug 02 09:05 |
| schestowitz | AFAIK, it never said anything on the subject | Aug 02 09:05 |
| schestowitz | And Oracle now owns both ZFS and btrfs | Aug 02 09:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I have 'GIMP 2 for Photographers' (belongs to @tonywhitmore), will give it back tomorrow :S | Aug 02 09:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] (that was @andysc btw) | Aug 02 09:06 | |
| tessier__ | schestowitz: No idea. Hopefully GPL it but it doesn't really matter what they do with it at this point. | Aug 02 09:06 |
| tessier__ | Oracle doesn't own btrfs. It is GPL'd and lots of different people and companies have contributed. | Aug 02 09:07 |
| schestowitz | I know | Aug 02 09:07 |
| schestowitz | I was gonna rewrite that (re btrfs) | Aug 02 09:07 |
| fewa | tessier__, yeah that article was awesoem | Aug 02 09:07 |
| schestowitz | Novell contributes to it too | Aug 02 09:07 |
| schestowitz | I guess Oracle owns a lot of btrfs copyrights | Aug 02 09:07 |
| fewa | disambiguates the ambiguabigable | Aug 02 09:07 |
| fewa | brtfs is licenced under GPL, and that cannot be taken away | Aug 02 09:08 |
| fewa | but probably GPL2 only.... | Aug 02 09:09 |
| tessier__ | It's for the kernel so.... | Aug 02 09:09 |
| Ng | they could take Chris Mason off the project, which would considerably slow it down | Aug 02 09:09 |
| fewa | still matters | Aug 02 09:09 |
| Ng | but I wouldn't have thought oracle care less about btrfs than they did before buying sun | Aug 02 09:09 |
| tessier__ | I don't think this changes anything for btrfs | Aug 02 09:10 |
| fewa | They care alot about file systems | Aug 02 09:10 |
| tessier__ | And there is a good chance that btrfs is better technology than zfs | Aug 02 09:10 |
| Ng | I also don't think they'll GPL zfs | Aug 02 09:10 |
| fewa | definitely | Aug 02 09:10 |
| tessier__ | zfs can't resize the filesystem. I was surprised to read that. | Aug 02 09:10 |
| fewa | cause they would rather focus people onto brtfs, then fork energies with zfs | Aug 02 09:10 |
| fewa | and brtfs seems much better | Aug 02 09:10 |
| Ng | tessier__: that seems so surprising that I don't believe you :) | Aug 02 09:11 |
| oiaohm | Oracle has been lead developer on btrfs | Aug 02 09:18 |
| oiaohm | But oracle is really not a threat to the open source world. | Aug 02 09:18 |
| fewa | they are now a large player | Aug 02 09:19 |
| fewa | and provider of open source | Aug 02 09:20 |
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| _goblin | good morning all | Aug 02 09:24 |
| amarsh04 | tessier__, in an earlier interview of Valerie Aurora, she made the very good point that it would not be good to have filesystem development stagnate then have new developers come along without access to old developers who could explain what did and didn't work and why | Aug 02 09:25 |
| amarsh04 | however much the developers wrote down, there were still design decisions that did not have their full rationale written down for others to read | Aug 02 09:26 |
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| _goblin | Anyone here running Chromium? | Aug 02 09:58 |
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| fewa | i am | Aug 02 10:13 |
| fewa | not as my main browser though | Aug 02 10:13 |
| oiaohm | btrfs is going on because zfs is not exacty fine. | Aug 02 10:16 |
| _goblin | fewa: Same here, once flash gets sorted I will be switching...its made a fan of me! | Aug 02 10:19 |
| fewa | what? | Aug 02 10:19 |
| fewa | firefox 3.5 is great | Aug 02 10:19 |
| fewa | I use it for practically everything | Aug 02 10:19 |
| fewa | chromium gives the web providers control, instead of the users | Aug 02 10:20 |
| fewa | things like greasemonkey, stylish, etc | Aug 02 10:21 |
| fewa | make firefox great | Aug 02 10:21 |
| fewa | cslite | Aug 02 10:22 |
| fewa | and Mozilla is dedicated to open video | Aug 02 10:23 |
| oiaohm | Really chrome is a protozone. | Aug 02 10:24 |
| oiaohm | Lot of its tech will appear in firefox. | Aug 02 10:24 |
| fewa | Its designed to push other browsers to do thing that are important to google | Aug 02 10:24 |
| oiaohm | Its part that firefox really does not have room to experment with the numbers of Users they have either. | Aug 02 10:25 |
| fewa | http://blog.mozilla.com/cjones/2009/06/21/multi-process-firefox-coming-to-an-internets-near-you/ | Aug 02 10:28 |
| fewa | They do things | Aug 02 10:28 |
| oiaohm | That is not really experment that is take in tech that is proven able to operate. | Aug 02 10:30 |
| fewa | google didn't really experiment | Aug 02 10:30 |
| fewa | but they did quite successfully influence through action | Aug 02 10:31 |
| oiaohm | Name a browser before chrome that was multi process. | Aug 02 10:32 |
| fewa | wasn't ie suppose to have that | Aug 02 10:33 |
| fewa | (in a non-secure way) | Aug 02 10:33 |
| oiaohm | It was not. | Aug 02 10:33 |
| fewa | ahh that was vaporware | Aug 02 10:33 |
| fewa | well ok, that was their thing | Aug 02 10:33 |
| fewa | trying to make the browser a OS | Aug 02 10:33 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Aug 02 10:33 |
| fewa | v8 | Aug 02 10:33 |
| fewa | they pushed performance | Aug 02 10:33 |
| oiaohm | Trying to fix cross tab/windows exploits in web browsers. | Aug 02 10:34 |
| fewa | realy want performance | Aug 02 10:34 |
| oiaohm | In the end lead to fixing up performance | Aug 02 10:34 |
| fewa | oiaohm, related tabs run in same process | Aug 02 10:34 |
| fewa | but yes, security model of chromium is good | Aug 02 10:34 |
| oiaohm | the security model is purely what chromium was about. | Aug 02 10:34 |
| oiaohm | It will be nice as that tech spreeds. | Aug 02 10:35 |
| fewa | security + speed + multi-process | Aug 02 10:35 |
| oiaohm | speed was not there first worry with chrome. | Aug 02 10:35 |
| oiaohm | It kinda just happen. | Aug 02 10:35 |
| fewa | they hired a group to create v8 | Aug 02 10:35 |
| fewa | first native bytecode | Aug 02 10:36 |
| fewa | best for ARM too | Aug 02 10:36 |
| oiaohm | They suspected they would take a major speed hit from the secuirty. | Aug 02 10:36 |
| oiaohm | That never came. | Aug 02 10:36 |
| fewa | native threads are fast | Aug 02 10:36 |
| fewa | lots of engineering | Aug 02 10:36 |
| fewa | but ok | Aug 02 10:37 |
| oiaohm | After chrome worked then the idea of web OS took off. | Aug 02 10:37 |
| oiaohm | The secuirty design was so much like a OS is not much more really to make it a OS. | Aug 02 10:37 |
| fewa | what about native code browser | Aug 02 10:37 |
| fewa | anyways | Aug 02 10:38 |
| oiaohm | That is later than chrome secuirty model. | Aug 02 10:38 |
| oiaohm | Everything has a order of steps. | Aug 02 10:38 |
| fewa | native code is dumb IMHO | Aug 02 10:38 |
| oiaohm | chrome secuirty model has created a lot of branches. | Aug 02 10:38 |
| oiaohm | native code is really no dumber than .net or java. | Aug 02 10:39 |
| fewa | but .net and java are ISA-independant bytecode | Aug 02 10:39 |
| oiaohm | Exactly what makes that good. | Aug 02 10:39 |
| mib_3425 | "web OS's" or thin client OS's have been around for far longer then native "on desk" OS's. remember the VT100 days ? | Aug 02 10:40 |
| fewa | native client is not ISA-independant | Aug 02 10:40 |
| fewa | mib_3425, yep | Aug 02 10:40 |
| oiaohm | ISA-independant has very few advantages. | Aug 02 10:40 |
| oiaohm | Each computer needing to convert it to native for speed. Masive numbers of machines world wide doing exactly the same processing. | Aug 02 10:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A new antitrust exhibit ties together documents that show how Microsoft planned to attack GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/HQSvT | Aug 02 10:41 | |
| oiaohm | Auditing harder for user than if likes of python or javascript was sent. | Aug 02 10:41 |
| fewa | ^ | Aug 02 10:41 |
| fewa | clients can always cache compiles | Aug 02 10:42 |
| oiaohm | In theory arm or x86 instructitons can be used in a ISA independant way. | Aug 02 10:42 |
| fewa | emulation is slowwwwww | Aug 02 10:42 |
| oiaohm | There are JIT for x86 running. | Aug 02 10:42 |
| oiaohm | So just as slow as java or net really. | Aug 02 10:43 |
| oiaohm | arm is really neater instruction set for it. | Aug 02 10:43 |
| oiaohm | Really ISA independant bytecode still has a form of emulation. | Aug 02 10:44 |
| fewa | well i think it should be source | Aug 02 10:44 |
| oiaohm | I guess you can see now like me there is not that much advantage to bytecode. | Aug 02 10:44 |
| fewa | seems like a form of NIH | Aug 02 10:45 |
| fewa | but with native code dont you have to rely on ISA security contexts? | Aug 02 10:47 |
| fewa | thats why bytecode is used | Aug 02 10:47 |
| fewa | to have a virtual machine with security contexts | Aug 02 10:47 |
| oiaohm | No you don't have to just depend on ISA security contexts with native code. | Aug 02 10:48 |
| oiaohm | It is another invalid argument used to explain why ISA bytecode is required. | Aug 02 10:48 |
| fewa | cause thats how the kernel works on x86, rings | Aug 02 10:48 |
| fewa | native client uses a special compiler | Aug 02 10:49 |
| oiaohm | Just like you process ISA bytecode before they are run. Same can be done to native code. | Aug 02 10:49 |
| fewa | and then verifier | Aug 02 10:49 |
| oiaohm | So rejecting or altering any suspect code. | Aug 02 10:49 |
| fewa | ahh native code already has that? | Aug 02 10:49 |
| fewa | I thought it was just a user-mode sandbox | Aug 02 10:49 |
| fewa | of the processor | Aug 02 10:49 |
| oiaohm | Does not have to be only that. | Aug 02 10:50 |
| oiaohm | You can have binary verfication before running. | Aug 02 10:50 |
| oiaohm | Same methods are used to detect defective compliers. | Aug 02 10:50 |
| fewa | not saying thats why bytecode is required, but x86 sanitizer is supposedly not reliably created yet | Aug 02 10:51 |
| oiaohm | x86 sanitizers exist. | Aug 02 10:51 |
| oiaohm | They are still restrictive. | Aug 02 10:51 |
| oiaohm | Ie lot of different cpu instructions are still off limits. | Aug 02 10:52 |
| fewa | what do you have to sanitize in user mode? | Aug 02 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Its basically a scan over the binary before its run. | Aug 02 10:52 |
| fewa | JIT scan? | Aug 02 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Check the code for defects. | Aug 02 10:52 |
| oiaohm | Just like bytecode scan for valid. | Aug 02 10:53 |
| oiaohm | It can be doing JIT alterations. | Aug 02 10:53 |
| oiaohm | Like adding buffer overflow protections. | Aug 02 10:54 |
| oiaohm | http://web.yl.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~tosh/kml/ Some of the research on sanitizers are to allow things like this to work fewa | Aug 02 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Also some of the reasearch is also to make detection of when JIT and AOT compliers stuff up. | Aug 02 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Possiable. | Aug 02 11:01 |
| fewa | I should try it in kvm | Aug 02 11:03 |
| oiaohm | Issue was when java did bytecode means to statically solve code effectively did not exist. | Aug 02 11:05 |
| oiaohm | So the bytecode was designed to provide more data to make solving possible. | Aug 02 11:05 |
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| oiaohm | Research has moved on since then. | Aug 02 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Aug 02 11:32 |
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| satipera | Roy I notice there is not a Comes antitrust article on Wikipedia. Perhaps there should be? | Aug 02 11:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Yahoo Chief Gets ‘No Confidence’ Vote on Search Deal (Update3): http://is.gd/1YTU7 | Aug 02 11:48 | |
| fewa | satipera, yeah go ahead | Aug 02 11:50 |
| fewa | didnt notice that | Aug 02 11:51 |
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| satipera | I would if I knew enough about it. | Aug 02 11:52 |
| fewa | schestowitz, duel licence you wiki under CC-BY-SA-3.0 | Aug 02 11:52 |
| fewa | under the terms of the GFDL-1.3 | Aug 02 11:52 |
| fewa | -NOW_ | Aug 02 11:52 |
| fewa | schestowitz, NOWWWWWW | Aug 02 11:52 |
| fewa | as in, today | Aug 02 11:52 |
| fewa | schestowitz, relicence, then read GFDL | Aug 02 11:53 |
| fewa | as in today | Aug 02 11:53 |
| fewa | right friggen now | Aug 02 11:53 |
| fewa | satipera, start with http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Comes_vs_Microsoft | Aug 02 11:55 |
| fewa | satipera, doesnt take much. look at finial runing, summarize that, then procede to summarize evidence | Aug 02 11:56 |
| satipera | Ty I will start reading it now. | Aug 02 11:56 |
| satipera | I suspect it will be a bit of a battle ground | Aug 02 11:57 |
| satipera | But that is good publicity | Aug 02 11:57 |
| fewa | you could use pastebin before you commit first draft | Aug 02 11:59 |
| fewa | satipera, have you found the finial ruling? | Aug 02 12:05 |
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| fewa | satipera, http://www.iowamicrosoftcase.com/pdfs/SettlementAgreement.pdf | Aug 02 12:12 |
| satipera | Fewa, I would do this but I am pretty sure there are many people who would do a much better job, I do not want to do a poor job which will be ripped apart. | Aug 02 12:18 |
| fewa | well just do what you can do, and dont commit it, do it to the BN page | Aug 02 12:18 |
| fewa | we will make that the staging area | Aug 02 12:18 |
| satipera | Okay I will think on it. | Aug 02 12:19 |
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| fewa | wait it ended in settlement, not ruling | Aug 02 12:51 |
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| mib_3425 | fewa, what did ?? i missed it | Aug 02 12:59 |
| fewa | comes v microsoft ended in settlement | Aug 02 13:00 |
| mib_3425 | yes, it did i was just reading the PDF, reading it, it really did not go well for comes or the group against MS. They would have lost huge court costs for almost no return. $10 to $25 per license is nothing. | Aug 02 13:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @glynmoody ITV: a case study in intellectual and moral bankruptcy - http://bit.ly/12O426 | Aug 02 13:24 | |
| mib_3425 | or you can do what they do in australia, put 14 year old girls on lie detectors on a national radio program and quizz her about her sexual history !! (where she admits of being raped at 12) the radio inquisitor asked the girl if she had any "other" sexual experences besides that !!!.. it was a desaster. how stupid would you be to put a 14 YO girl on radio, hooked to a lie detector, what a stunt | Aug 02 13:42 |
| oiaohm | comes group did not have major overheads mib_3425 | Aug 02 13:44 |
| mib_3425 | they had 2 high prices new york laywer firms, im sure they did not do it for free. | Aug 02 13:44 |
| oiaohm | What is more valueable. Charging client or having the past case with a win. | Aug 02 13:46 |
| oiaohm | From the point of view making profit from patent trolls attacking MS it was a good PR stunt mib_3425 | Aug 02 13:47 |
| mib_3425 | but they did not get a win, not ever a moral one, if they spent all that time and money on lawyers, evidance, time, for $10 to $25 rebate on each license. No its not worth it. Lawyers would be 10's of thousands in this case or more. | Aug 02 13:47 |
| mib_3425 | attacking MS and winning is a good PR stunt yes. | Aug 02 13:48 |
| mib_3425 | comes had little to do with patent trolls IMO | Aug 02 13:49 |
| oiaohm | It is still a win. Both of those firms picked up latter patent trolls attacking MS. | Aug 02 13:49 |
| oiaohm | So recovered that tempory loss with massive profit. | Aug 02 13:49 |
| mib_3425 | what firms, the legal firms ?? | Aug 02 13:49 |
| mib_3425 | so it was a win for the lawyers, we could of worked that out !! | Aug 02 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Both the new york ones. | Aug 02 13:50 |
| oiaohm | No loss for comes either. | Aug 02 13:50 |
| oiaohm | USA law is a warped business mib. | Aug 02 13:51 |
| mib_3425 | what was his court and lawyer expenses, and loss of income from loss of work, all for $10 to $25 per license, and I dont think a painter would have that many licenses | Aug 02 13:51 |
| oiaohm | What expenses. | Aug 02 13:51 |
| mib_3425 | Also the lady lawyer, who had intensiosn of moving into politics until she came under unvestigation for tax fraud. | Aug 02 13:52 |
| oiaohm | The law firms were just as interested in the legal out come as comes was. | Aug 02 13:52 |
| mib_3425 | Lawyer cost, loss of income while in court, and laywer costs, they are not cheap. | Aug 02 13:52 |
| oiaohm | If it had been a big win it would have opened up a pandora box of other cases. | Aug 02 13:53 |
| mib_3425 | I bet they did not do it for gratis. | Aug 02 13:53 |
| oiaohm | If they did not win it was good advertisement that they would take on MS. | Aug 02 13:53 |
| oiaohm | So either way they were not losing. | Aug 02 13:53 |
| mib_3425 | It's good to take on big business, but only if you win. | Aug 02 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Did they have to pay MS costs. | Aug 02 13:54 |
| oiaohm | Answer no. | Aug 02 13:54 |
| oiaohm | So it was not a loss. | Aug 02 13:54 |
| mib_3425 | No but they had to pay their own costs, which would be considerable | Aug 02 13:54 |
| mib_3425 | far more than what they got back in return for the settlement. so comes lost really | Aug 02 13:54 |
| oiaohm | Yet all major law firms risk so much each year testing the law. | Aug 02 13:54 |
| oiaohm | To see if a stack of cases they have are worth pushing forwards with. | Aug 02 13:55 |
| mib_3425 | spin it all you like, comes is out of pocket for the cost and effort that was put into it. | Aug 02 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Comes was really not out of profit. | Aug 02 13:55 |
| mib_3425 | if anything it showed that they are not with the risk of taking them further. | Aug 02 13:55 |
| oiaohm | law firm is also not really out of profit either. | Aug 02 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Main target was not longer achivable. | Aug 02 13:56 |
| mib_3425 | No law firm would get paid, but expenses were not requied to be paid by MS so comes would have to pay the litigators, and thats expensive for little return. | Aug 02 13:56 |
| mib_3425 | so yes, he's out of pocket | Aug 02 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Ie block from product distributions. | Aug 02 13:56 |
| oiaohm | You are wrong on that bit. | Aug 02 13:57 |
| mib_3425 | on what ? | Aug 02 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Every year all major lawyer firms run so much that they take costs on. | Aug 02 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Comes case is one of those. | Aug 02 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Its normally the more interesting non run of mill cases. | Aug 02 13:58 |
| oiaohm | The ones that if they work will open up huge new profit streams. | Aug 02 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Of course not all of them work. | Aug 02 13:59 |
| mib_3425 | im sure the laywers did not do it for free, even if they did comes only got $25 bucks or less per license, basically nothing. | Aug 02 13:59 |
| oiaohm | They did mib_3425 | Aug 02 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Its how come the case got so far in the first place. | Aug 02 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Its is no more than law firm gambling. | Aug 02 14:00 |
| oiaohm | If the case payed off there were at least another 3 to 4 hundred cases that could have be placed against different companies. | Aug 02 14:01 |
| mib_3425 | but still they did not get a win, or even a moral win so it was a lost cause for the laywers, saying they went against MS but had to settle is no endorsement of your abilities. especially when you read the settlement they agreed on. | Aug 02 14:01 |
| mib_3425 | they (the lawyers) either had nothing or were spineless. | Aug 02 14:01 |
| mib_3425 | to settle for the nothing they did. | Aug 02 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Aug 02 14:01 |
| oiaohm | The power card was gone. | Aug 02 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Ie means to block MS from distributing product until is was sorted. | Aug 02 14:02 |
| mib_3425 | no way a vicory, its a defeat, $10 to $25 rebate, no expenses or costs or fine is not a successfull settlement by no means. | Aug 02 14:02 |
| oiaohm | So left firms facing a problem that MS could drag it out for years. So simpler to settle. | Aug 02 14:02 |
| oiaohm | The big thing they wanted to find out is if distributing product could be blocked. | Aug 02 14:03 |
| schestowitz | fewa: hey | Aug 02 14:03 |
| oiaohm | It was a gamble mib_3425 | Aug 02 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I'll do that (relicense the Wiki) | Aug 02 14:03 |
| mib_3425 | and the answer to that is clearly no | Aug 02 14:03 |
| mib_3425 | it cant be blocked. | Aug 02 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Before that case software status was not clearly defined. | Aug 02 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes the annoying requirement of test cases to be sure how law will be applied. | Aug 02 14:04 |
| oiaohm | you call it a defeat. A defeat would have been getting nothing. | Aug 02 14:05 |
| oiaohm | It was more the legal equal of a draw. | Aug 02 14:05 |
| schestowitz | Apple makes a mockery out of themselves | Aug 02 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Just seen an iPhone ad on TV | Aug 02 14:06 |
| schestowitz | They brag about cut & paste | Aug 02 14:06 |
| schestowitz | "You can copy a phone number and paste it in a text" | Aug 02 14:06 |
| schestowitz | "You can copy an article and paste it.." | Aug 02 14:07 |
| schestowitz | That's a UK ad | Aug 02 14:07 |
| schestowitz | What a joke | Aug 02 14:07 |
| oiaohm | When another idea to attack companies like MS appear you can bet some law firm some were will take it on as a gamble. | Aug 02 14:07 |
| schestowitz | Palm could do this like a decade ago | Aug 02 14:07 |
| schestowitz | And they killed an app that did this in early versions of iPhone | Aug 02 14:07 |
| schestowitz | Can I legally relicense GFDL-1.3 as CC-BY-SA-3.0 like Wikipedia did after RMS changed him stance? | Aug 02 14:08 |
| fewa | read gfdl 1.3 | Aug 02 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Also comes case was not a loss. MS was forced to settle and was unable to ask for there record to be sealed mib_3425. | Aug 02 14:08 |
| fewa | at the end | Aug 02 14:08 |
| oiaohm | So lot of future usable documents are left from the comes case mib_3425. | Aug 02 14:09 |
| Ng | schestowitz: I was thinking about copy & paste this morning and while I don't remember how palm did it, I think the iphone's implementation is nicer than the one is most desktop OSes | Aug 02 14:09 |
| Ng | mainly because I hate selecting stuff and realising I was one character short and having to drag the mouse the whole way again. You can continue selecting with appropriate keyboard poking, so why not use the little iphone-style stalks to do it with the mouse too :) | Aug 02 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Remember mib_3425 art of war. Its no if you win or loss a battle is if you win or lose the war. | Aug 02 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Ng: klipper is good | Aug 02 14:11 |
| schestowitz | CTRL+ALT+V for past selections | Aug 02 14:11 |
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| oiaohm | I always think it funny just because a case did not end in all out victory people try to call it a lose. | Aug 02 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Its not always the case that is valueable it sometimes all the information got in discovery. | Aug 02 14:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Arranjar maneira de fazer um fake cron de modo a regenerar o HP :-) | Aug 02 14:17 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: done | Aug 02 14:18 |
| schestowitz | Relicensed | Aug 02 14:18 |
| schestowitz | fewa: are you there? | Aug 02 14:20 |
| fewa | yep | Aug 02 14:20 |
| schestowitz | I think it's all done right. I hope you find the way to share it widely | Aug 02 14:23 |
| fewa | sorry for urgency, but i read that clause | Aug 02 14:23 |
| schestowitz | I can't mess with Wikipedia or self promote. If people wish to put Comes content there, that'll be great. | Aug 02 14:23 |
| schestowitz | fewa: AFAIK, RMS added the clause to permit migration to CC | Aug 02 14:24 |
| fewa | i know | Aug 02 14:24 |
| schestowitz | It was in the news some months ago. Wikipedia is relicensing in the same direction. RMS takes no offense in that | Aug 02 14:24 |
| schestowitz | I was at the gym until now, so all the urgent calls didn't reach me.. | Aug 02 14:24 |
| fewa | np | Aug 02 14:25 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Aug 02 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm seams linuxtracker is now having Ddos fun. | Aug 02 14:28 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: aye | Aug 02 14:29 |
| schestowitz | Since days/weeks ago | Aug 02 14:29 |
| schestowitz | brb | Aug 02 14:29 |
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| Omar87 | Hi guys! | Aug 02 14:42 |
| Omar87 | Here are more amazing pics for the Firefox Petra trip! http://www.flickr.com/photos/41022061@N05/ | Aug 02 14:43 |
| Omar87 | Enjoy! ;) | Aug 02 14:43 |
| schestowitz | Little MSFT news in thew past week | Aug 02 14:50 |
| schestowitz | They become smaller.. less impact | Aug 02 14:50 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: thanks, I'll put it in Daily Links | Aug 02 14:52 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Cool! | Aug 02 14:53 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: How did you like them? :) | Aug 02 14:53 |
| schestowitz | Petra is amazing. | Aug 02 14:54 |
| schestowitz | All the MSFT news would obviously be about Yahoo | Aug 02 14:55 |
| schestowitz | Hyped up for no good reason.. | Aug 02 14:55 |
| schestowitz | Ewwww. ... Fester... http://www.canada.com/news/Microsoft+Ballmer+hopes+Yahoo+talks/1406349/story.html | Aug 02 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Shaved his head again... | Aug 02 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Movement made on health care...Microsoft partners with Yahoo...Madoff's wife sued < http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?id=160867 > | Aug 02 14:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ahah, já acabei :-) | Aug 02 15:00 | |
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| schestowitz | Alexander Wolfe (anti-Linux writer): "Being a big fan of Windows 7..." | Aug 02 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Haha. | Aug 02 15:13 |
| schestowitz | He give away his real bias... later on when he attacks Linux as usual (Groklaw called it a "Jihad"), then this will be valuable as a reference | Aug 02 15:13 |
| schestowitz | About 30 articls matching "dows 7" in the past week | Aug 02 15:14 |
| schestowitz | "Vista": only 3 !! | Aug 02 15:14 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've just look at Google News feeds for 7 days. Among 480 headline only 3 mention Vista (real), 30 mention Vista 7 (the imaginary). | Aug 02 15:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz remember around the April quarterly results, when they started the press talking about windows 8? | Aug 02 15:16 | |
| Yes, it's new version number time. The M$ people will be louder and nastier than ever. | Aug 02 15:17 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is sued over XBox 360 again: http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6214434.html | Aug 02 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Does anyone here know comScore? | Aug 02 15:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : they will talk about it more when Vista 7 is used by real angry people and Microsoft TEs can't keep up with them (silenci ... | Aug 02 15:24 | |
| Vista 7 hype log is getting new entries http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Aug 02 15:25 | |
| comScore. I've seen that before. | Aug 02 15:25 | |
| Omar87 | http://omarsflosscorner.blogspot.com/2009/08/firefox-petra-trip.html | Aug 02 15:25 |
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| Omar87 | That was my new blog post. Enjoy. ;) | Aug 02 15:26 |
| schestowitz | twitter: they too are going to bed with Ballmer, so their 'Web stats' will be even more questionable from now on http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2455223/ | Aug 02 15:26 |
| schestowitz | Zune : FAIL. http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-whats-become-microsofts-answer-the-ipod-bc-cpt-/2009/07/29/4298759.htm | Aug 02 15:26 |
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| Omar87 | -I just wrote it, notify me of any typos/suggestions- | Aug 02 15:26 |
| Omar87 | And please, it would be great if you vote it up for me too: http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/The_Firefox_Petra_trip :) | Aug 02 15:27 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] The Firefox Petra trip! http://tinyurl.com/n6xpvw | Aug 02 15:30 | |
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| schestowitz | Wow. Reading Microsoft news is now a pleasure compared to 2 years ago. It's so much bad news for the company that used to be something. | Aug 02 15:36 |
| Vista 7 is really M$'s last gasp. They are blowing all of their remaining resources right now. | Aug 02 15:37 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, on marketing | Aug 02 15:37 |
| schestowitz | They should just Fix Vista(R) | Aug 02 15:37 |
| They can't and they know it. | Aug 02 15:37 | |
| All resources are tuned to OEM strangulation and hype. | Aug 02 15:38 | |
| Omar87 | twitter: And still, they seem to fail in making it any different than Vista. :) | Aug 02 15:38 |
| oiaohm_ | Thing I find so funny. Linux teams are still just placing there pieces and not really attacking yet. | Aug 02 15:38 |
| Even the marketing is the same. | Aug 02 15:38 | |
| oiaohm_ | If MS has to work this hard in a basic time of peace for them. | Aug 02 15:38 |
| oiaohm_ | What are they going to do when the war comes. | Aug 02 15:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVqcF9XowV8 (Apple "Get a Mac" ad: Bake Sale) | Aug 02 15:38 |
| they have the Vista capable nonsense again | Aug 02 15:39 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGPTtlUTeZU (Fix Vista?) | Aug 02 15:39 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm_: Linux won't attack as "Linux" | Aug 02 15:40 |
| they have the same "news" outlets filled with glowing reviews | Aug 02 15:40 | |
| schestowitz | Only as "IBM" or "Ubuntu" or whatever | Aug 02 15:40 |
| schestowitz | Each company wants its own implementation (distribution) for return of marketing investment | Aug 02 15:40 |
| they promise that Vista 7 is everything that Vista should have been and that gnu/linux and mac actually are | Aug 02 15:40 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah.. | Aug 02 15:41 |
| schestowitz | SOme people say the opposite | Aug 02 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Then they get attacked | Aug 02 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft probably contacts editors | Aug 02 15:41 |
| oiaohm_ | IBM and Ubuntu is are not on a full war footing. | Aug 02 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Like Ziff Davis whom they bribe with contracts | Aug 02 15:41 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm_: let them wait for Microsoft to get more frail | Aug 02 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Linux development moves on.. KDE too | Aug 02 15:42 |
| the usual M$ lie is that free software just copies M$ features. | Aug 02 15:42 | |
| it's transparently the opposite of reality | Aug 02 15:42 | |
| oiaohm_ | The issue here is when they really do. | Aug 02 15:42 |
| schestowitz | BBC corruption (Highfield, Microsoft, BBC, Huggers et al): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/bbc-worldwide-joins-with-microsoft-for-vod-service-1764652.html How to build a collusion | Aug 02 15:42 |
| oiaohm_ | ADS server will allow NAS server to go head to head with MS small business. | Aug 02 15:42 |
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| oiaohm_ | So another device battle. | Aug 02 15:43 |
| there's nothing wrong with cherry picking features | Aug 02 15:43 | |
| schestowitz | Better than cherry-picking 'Editions' | Aug 02 15:43 |
| schestowitz | I.e. choose your level of crippleness | Aug 02 15:43 |
| oiaohm_ | netbooks kinda was damaging. | Aug 02 15:43 |
| schestowitz | Still uis | Aug 02 15:43 |
| schestowitz | They have a new scheme | Aug 02 15:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/07/31/microsoft_plans_to_use_windows_7_to_raise_netbook_prices.html Microsoft plans to use Windows 7 to raise netbook prices | Aug 02 15:44 |
| free software allows users to cherry pick features from all of the desktops they like | Aug 02 15:44 | |
| schestowitz | Won't work | Aug 02 15:44 |
| schestowitz | ^^meaning the price elevation | Aug 02 15:44 |
| schestowitz | ATM is already cheaper than Atom drek | Aug 02 15:44 |
| raising themselves right out of the market | Aug 02 15:44 | |
| schestowitz | And runs for longer, too | Aug 02 15:44 |
| oiaohm_ | MS is pinned. | Aug 02 15:45 |
| M$ expects a burst of revenue from the faithful who will purchase "ultimate" family packs right away. | Aug 02 15:45 | |
| oiaohm_ | They are trying to work there way out. | Aug 02 15:45 |
| The fanboy squirt and channel stuffing. | Aug 02 15:45 | |
| oiaohm_ | Apple at the top Linux at the bottom. | Aug 02 15:45 |
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| I don't think they will get a lot of channel stuffing action this time. All of the last victims are out of business. | Aug 02 15:46 | |
| schestowitz | Major blow for the VOle: | Aug 02 15:46 |
| schestowitz | http://comic-con.gamespot.com/story/6214211/bungie-probably-exiting-halo-franchise-new-ip-deal-close | Aug 02 15:46 |
| Those that survive don't have the capacity. | Aug 02 15:46 | |
| oiaohm_ | Family packs also have a neightive effect. | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Yes, channel stuffing won't work | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Those that survived learned their lesson | Aug 02 15:47 |
| oiaohm_ | On total income that can come in. | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Thus the need for AstroTurf for VIsta 7 | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | THey got caught | Aug 02 15:47 |
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| Omar87 | schestowitz: Did you read my blog post? :) | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | We even had Microsoft TEs in Boycott Novell promoting VIsta 7 | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Many don't get caught | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | They attack critics of the OS | Aug 02 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: yes, looks good | Aug 02 15:48 |
| schestowitz | didn't notice typos | Aug 02 15:48 |
| *schestowitz hopes the skull's better | Aug 02 15:48 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Great, thanks! :) | Aug 02 15:48 |
| shreddar | Offtopic: So guy's, it's been awhile. Got a new computer finally. Dual partitioned. With a wireless repeater in place of adapter. | Aug 02 15:48 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Yeah man, I'm great now. Thanks. ;) | Aug 02 15:48 |
| oiaohm_ | dbus is slowly intergrating the back end of the Linux deskop. | Aug 02 15:49 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Can you vote it up for me please? http://www.fsdaily.com/Community/The_Firefox_Petra_trip | Aug 02 15:49 |
| that's the funny thing. All M$'s efforts to make things complex eventually backfire. | Aug 02 15:50 | |
| schestowitz | Closing In on 1 Billion Downloads, Firefox Readies the Balloonshttp://www.crn.com/software/218900197;jsessionid=QVHHHJDHRVHNYQSNDLPSKHSCJUNN2JVN | Aug 02 15:50 |
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| schestowitz | Closing In on 1 Billion Downloads, Firefox Readies the Balloons http://www.crn.com/software/218900197;jsessionid=QVHHHJDHRVHNYQSNDLPSKHSCJUNN2JVN | Aug 02 15:50 |
| free software has the resources and ability to make it all work, but Windows chokes | Aug 02 15:50 | |
| schestowitz | Omar87: I did half an hour ago | Aug 02 15:51 |
| oiaohm_ | Just time is the factor twitter | Aug 02 15:51 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Great! Thanks a lot. ;) | Aug 02 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Wait.. | Aug 02 15:51 |
| schestowitz | I have a quesitopn | Aug 02 15:51 |
| schestowitz | It has occurred to me that Microsoft spoke about Vista 7 for netbooks [sic] | Aug 02 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Where has *that* gone? | Aug 02 15:52 |
| oiaohm_ | MS still says it coming. | Aug 02 15:52 |
| schestowitz | Like "fast boot" and WinFS....? | Aug 02 15:52 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm_: not for netbooks | Aug 02 15:52 |
| schestowitz | They want to make them fat and expensive | Aug 02 15:52 |
| schestowitz | They want to kill this form factor | Aug 02 15:52 |
| schestowitz | See Apple Insider article | Aug 02 15:52 |
| oiaohm_ | Yes they recent press reports still say netbooks support is coming to Vista | Aug 02 15:52 |
| way, way gone. schestowitz: Where has *that* gone? | Aug 02 15:53 | |
| oiaohm_ | Now you have me doing it. | Aug 02 15:53 |
| shreddar | Vista doesn't have netbook support yet? | Aug 02 15:53 |
| see my hype log for the promises | Aug 02 15:53 | |
| schestowitz | They talk about Starter Edition | Aug 02 15:53 |
| oiaohm_ | Windows 7 starter has faster start time. | Aug 02 15:53 |
| shreddar | Also, It's out already? | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | Where they changed restriction | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | No more 3-app-only | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | Cause of Linux, duh | Aug 02 15:53 |
| oiaohm_ | Yep | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | But... | Aug 02 15:53 |
| they all talk about having "seen" vista 7 on netbooks. | Aug 02 15:53 | |
| schestowitz | Where is that Vista 7 for netbooks then? | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | It'll be too fat after RC | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | ITWire tried it | Aug 02 15:53 |
| it's BS | Aug 02 15:53 | |
| schestowitz | It's too far | Aug 02 15:53 |
| schestowitz | *fat | Aug 02 15:54 |
| of course | Aug 02 15:54 | |
| shreddar | I knew they get ride of that restiction. | Aug 02 15:54 |
| oiaohm_ | Windows 7 also allows netbooks to have larger ram and large cpu. | Aug 02 15:54 |
| oiaohm_ | Wonder why. | Aug 02 15:54 |
| schestowitz | "Allows" | Aug 02 15:54 |
| schestowitz | To make them expensivce | Aug 02 15:54 |
| schestowitz | They call them mini notebooks | Aug 02 15:54 |
| schestowitz | They want to kill netbooks | Aug 02 15:54 |
| They are simply interested in the illusion of efficiency | Aug 02 15:54 | |
| schestowitz | and make dual-core Atoms | Aug 02 15:54 |
| shreddar | smartbooks | Aug 02 15:54 |
| schestowitz | Intel is making those | Aug 02 15:54 |
| it was all marketing | Aug 02 15:54 | |
| schestowitz | Gas-Guzzling laptop | Aug 02 15:54 |
| shreddar | They can't do that with smartbooks | Aug 02 15:55 |
| they can't do it with cell phones | Aug 02 15:55 | |
| schestowitz | It's not smartbooks | Aug 02 15:55 |
| schestowitz | It's ARM sub-notebooks | Aug 02 15:55 |
| schestowitz | They rename them to insult them | Aug 02 15:55 |
| oiaohm_ | smartbooks are a arm plan. | Aug 02 15:55 |
| they can't run Vista with anything but monster PCs | Aug 02 15:55 | |
| oiaohm_ | What is basically a upscaled phone. | Aug 02 15:55 |
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| schestowitz | They already attack ARM with words | Aug 02 15:55 |
| shreddar | smartbook is not an insulting name at all. | Aug 02 15:55 |
| shreddar | 'smart' | Aug 02 15:55 |
| schestowitz | No | Aug 02 15:55 |
| schestowitz | It implies it's not a computer | Aug 02 15:56 |
| schestowitz | More like a phone | Aug 02 15:56 |
| shreddar | thats a compliment | Aug 02 15:56 |
| oiaohm_ | Because a smart book is basically a phone chipset. | Aug 02 15:56 |
| crunchpads, GNU/Linux delivering on Bill Gate's favorite pet project, the tablet PC from 2001 | Aug 02 15:56 | |
| shreddar | it makes it a consumer device | Aug 02 15:56 |
| oiaohm_ | Phones today can still do a hell load. | Aug 02 15:56 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Aug 02 15:57 |
| schestowitz | iPhone can do copya nd paste | Aug 02 15:57 |
| schestowitz | just WOW | Aug 02 15:57 |
| oiaohm_ | I was hoping that MPX would already be out by this poing. | Aug 02 15:57 |
| shreddar | consumer devices incedentally is where microsoft keeps failing. | Aug 02 15:57 |
| schestowitz | I saw it on TV | Aug 02 15:57 |
| schestowitz | My Palm M130 could do that | Aug 02 15:57 |
| schestowitz | How 'sophisticated' | Aug 02 15:57 |
| oiaohm_ | Really the phone one is sneeky. | Aug 02 15:58 |
| my EEE PC has the same power my 2002 laptop has. | Aug 02 15:58 | |
| oiaohm_ | Biggest problem for Linux has been the lack of kick backs. | Aug 02 15:58 |
| shreddar | If it has internet it's a computer | Aug 02 15:58 |
| shreddar | just don't tell consumers that | Aug 02 15:58 |
| I've gotten it to run debian of USB and external hard drive | Aug 02 15:58 | |
| oiaohm_ | Including the means to include phone plan addes the kick backs. | Aug 02 15:58 |
| worked with Etch and Lenny. | Aug 02 15:58 | |
| oiaohm_ | The sooner read time scanning support gets added to Linux kernel the better as well. | Aug 02 15:59 |
| oiaohm_ | So OEM can get anti-virus company kick backs. | Aug 02 15:59 |
| neither Vista nor XP would even fit on it. | Aug 02 15:59 | |
| those kick backs are pure BS. | Aug 02 15:59 | |
| shreddar | window ce could | Aug 02 15:59 |
| oiaohm_ | There will be a point of no return. | Aug 02 15:59 |
| shreddar | Windows CE | Aug 02 15:59 |
| it's just a way of punishing OEMs that don't do what M$ says. | Aug 02 15:59 | |
| oiaohm_ | Windows CE has very few applications that are paid to be placed on it. | Aug 02 15:59 |
| oiaohm_ | So from a cut throat OEM Windows CE is not that profitable. | Aug 02 16:00 |
| shreddar | That the great thing about it. | Aug 02 16:00 |
| oiaohm_ | There are more applications for Linux that pay kick backs than Windows CE. | Aug 02 16:01 |
| oiaohm_ | And Linux is cheaper. | Aug 02 16:01 |
| shreddar | And modern dont forget modern | Aug 02 16:01 |
| oiaohm_ | So in a gready OEM argument Windows CE loses. | Aug 02 16:01 |
| shreddar | Windows CE is based on 95 I think | Aug 02 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Who is this moron? http://blogs.reuters.com/mediafile/2009/07/29/barry-dillers-take-on-microsoft-yahoo-and-more/ http://www.marketingpilgrim.com/2009/07/dear-microsoft-thank-you-love-barry-diller.html | Aug 02 16:03 |
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| oiaohm_ | No shreddar Windows CE is cut down NT. | Aug 02 16:03 |
| oiaohm_ | Very nastly cut down NT. | Aug 02 16:03 |
| shreddar | Oh | Aug 02 16:04 |
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| oiaohm_ | Most of the useful NT features are removed. | Aug 02 16:04 |
| schestowitz | Linux can also do preferential placements of software | Aug 02 16:04 |
| schestowitz | The issue is inclusion of proprietary, use-hostile s/w the user won't want | Aug 02 16:04 |
| oiaohm_ | If it reduces sale price and gets more sales gready don't care. | Aug 02 16:06 |
| oiaohm_ | Hardware sales are purely about greed. | Aug 02 16:07 |
| shreddar | Still, Windows CE is going to be in that Nvidia thing. | Aug 02 16:07 |
| shreddar | And Chrome OS won't be out until' later. | Aug 02 16:08 |
| shreddar | But they still can't be charging a butload for it like they want | Aug 02 16:09 |
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| oiaohm_ | shreddar: to be expected. | Aug 02 16:09 |
| oiaohm_ | Nvidia does not want a fully open source market. | Aug 02 16:10 |
| shreddar | Why not? | Aug 02 16:10 |
| oiaohm_ | They worked massively over the years to slow down that from happening. | Aug 02 16:10 |
| oiaohm_ | No more secrects in there drivers of course shreddar | Aug 02 16:10 |
| mib_3425 | virtually all sales are about greed for both the buyer who has a greed for the product and the seller who has a greed for the markup profit. | Aug 02 16:10 |
| shreddar | Oh. Yeah that make sense. | Aug 02 16:11 |
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| oiaohm_ | Nvidia caused the 2000 team that started to sort out X11 drivers to break up. | Aug 02 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Don’t Expect A Microsoft E-Reader Any Time Soon < http://paidcontent.org/article/419-dont-expect-a-microsoft-e-reader-any-time-soon/ > Darn. I was gonna buy one...... | Aug 02 16:12 |
| shreddar | oiaohm How? | Aug 02 16:13 |
| schestowitz | mib_3425 is Mutex | Aug 02 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Pretending to be on MIB, which is blocked from FreeNode anyway | Aug 02 16:14 |
| oiaohm_ | By taking the tech developed and splintering there own driver away shreddar. | Aug 02 16:15 |
| oiaohm_ | Basically geting higher performance from the tech the other video card companies developed. yet sharing nothing of thiers. | Aug 02 16:15 |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Aug 02 16:15 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 02 16:15 | |
| mib_3425 | bye | Aug 02 16:15 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I can see him now up there spinning Microsoft legal cases | Aug 02 16:15 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@121.218.173.254 | Aug 02 16:16 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked mib_3425 from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 16:16 | |
| schestowitz | No, bye, ban | Aug 02 16:16 |
| schestowitz | It's Mutex again | Aug 02 16:16 |
| schestowitz | He's even spinning Microsoft's crime | Aug 02 16:16 |
| schestowitz | <mib_3425> spin it all you like, comes is out of pocket for the cost and effort that was put into it. | Aug 02 16:17 |
| shreddar | Whats Mutex been saying? | Aug 02 16:17 |
| schestowitz | <mib_3425> It's good to take on big business, but only if you win. | Aug 02 16:17 |
| schestowitz | <mib_3425> Also the lady lawyer, who had intensiosn of moving into politics until she came under unvestigation for tax fraud | Aug 02 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Conlin... | Aug 02 16:17 |
| schestowitz | <mib_3425> attacking MS and winning is a good PR stunt yes. | Aug 02 16:17 |
| oiaohm_ | Mutex has no understanding how law firms work. | Aug 02 16:17 |
| schestowitz | He's on the same IP | Aug 02 16:17 |
| oiaohm_ | What they did was profitable. | Aug 02 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Now pretending to be MIB user, which he ain't. Watch out for this linSUX mole... he's here to praises Microsoft and smear Linux, as always | Aug 02 16:18 |
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| *** twitter ignored mib_3425 right away | Aug 02 16:18 | |
| schestowitz | shreddar: Mutex has had over a dozen nyms here. He ban-escapes and trolls | Aug 02 16:19 |
| schestowitz | "CPE-121-218-173-254.nsw.bigpond.net.au" | Aug 02 16:19 |
| shreddar | This is the great thing about IRC | Aug 02 16:20 |
| shreddar | accountabiliy | Aug 02 16:20 |
| oiaohm_ | Mutex has one thing in common. | Aug 02 16:20 |
| oiaohm_ | No one of his arguements has a real world understanding. | Aug 02 16:20 |
| TEs will use botnets and multiple nyms. they have to put their arse into everything | Aug 02 16:21 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dvorak moved to GNU/Linux and now he talks about Microsoft's decline: http://ping.fm/mQi2h | Aug 02 16:21 | |
| he promised he would. | Aug 02 16:21 | |
| Vista was too much for him. | Aug 02 16:22 | |
| Eruaran | This is not new but I found it an interesting read nonetheless: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/30/readers-write-how-microsoft-got-windows-nt/ | Aug 02 16:23 |
| schestowitz | More MSFT cutbacks? http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=BDA06E01-1A64-67EA-E472D78E2835A376 | Aug 02 16:26 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft uses publicity stunts to make software that's Microsoft-limited: http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/high-on-a-hill/post.htm?id=63012462&scid=hm_bl | Aug 02 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: Microsoft press sez "Microsoft Attacks Sage in ERP Market Battle" http://mcpmag.com/articles/2009/07/28/microsoft-attacks-sage-in-erp-market-battle.aspx Do you want Clippy with that? | Aug 02 16:39 |
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| shreddar | I think I got disconnected or something | Aug 02 16:43 |
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| shreddar | I keep typing but nothing appeared | Aug 02 16:44 |
| wallclimber | Roy, you did a great job with the latest Comes exhibit - especially tying it all together with the Halloween docs | Aug 02 16:44 |
| shreddar | http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Barney-Actimates/dp/B000AQOH2Q | Aug 02 16:45 |
| shreddar | That's one of Microsoft ventures | Aug 02 16:45 |
| Eruaran | TBS offers better software than either Sage or Microsoft. Still proprietary, but you can have web apps rolled out on a Linux network. | Aug 02 16:46 |
| wallclimber | I laughed when Dvorak called it "Creepy Barney" | Aug 02 16:46 |
| shreddar | I love you. You love me. We're a happy --[This device cannot start] | Aug 02 16:47 |
| wallclimber | lol | Aug 02 16:47 |
| Eruaran | That purple thing belongs on FailBlog | Aug 02 16:48 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: thanks | Aug 02 16:48 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: just retype them. I saw you dropping off the server from here | Aug 02 16:48 |
| wallclimber | :) | Aug 02 16:48 |
| schestowitz | http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+7+OEM+Master+Key+Leaked+Can+Activate+Any+OEM+Build/article15816c.htm <------ Microsoft ensuring that Vista 7 gets /some/ users | Aug 02 16:48 |
| wallclimber | i always figure "leaked" keys are leaked on purpose by MS | Aug 02 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Aug 02 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Or they just let them be... | Aug 02 16:50 |
| shreddar | schestowitz. I was saying I liked roughly dafteds "The Rise and Fall of Platforms" | Aug 02 16:50 |
| wallclimber | sort of priming the pump | Aug 02 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Like "oooohhh... 'damn'... those people will get it for free now"... Oh wel...... | Aug 02 16:50 |
| shreddar | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/9E4D6D41-F4E9-44E4-930F-E876DAAA9131.html | Aug 02 16:50 |
| schestowitz | As Bill Gates put it not so long ago, "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not." | Aug 02 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft had the beta 'leaked' | Aug 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | OMG OMG OMG... the cow is out the barn!! | Aug 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | "Don't get it back... let it spread...:" | Aug 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | That'll show em !! Those p1rat3s !! | Aug 02 16:51 |
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| wallclimber | then they'll figure out a way to collect later | Aug 02 16:52 |
| shreddar | Isn't the RC available on their site? | Aug 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: thanks for that cartoon you made me BTW | Aug 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | That pony was not edible, I'm sure.. | Aug 02 16:52 |
| wallclimber | i think it's due to expire soon, isn't it? | Aug 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Paper hasn't good nutrients | Aug 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | What does a pixel taste like? | Aug 02 16:52 |
| _goblin | hi all.... | Aug 02 16:52 |
| shreddar | Oh really? | Aug 02 16:53 |
| wallclimber | Roy...you're funny :) | Aug 02 16:53 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: no, they now give it for FREE to all 'testers' | Aug 02 16:53 |
| schestowitz | It just shows they want it to spread | Aug 02 16:53 |
| schestowitz | And they want PR | Aug 02 16:53 |
| wallclimber | no expiration? | Aug 02 16:53 |
| shreddar | You know retail sales of Window only acount for 20% of it's sales. | Aug 02 16:53 |
| schestowitz | it's not about asking for payments, which they don't expect in much of the world anyway | Aug 02 16:53 |
| shreddar | 80% is licensed to OEMs | Aug 02 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Most of the world does not pay for Windows | Aug 02 16:53 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, expiration exists | Aug 02 16:54 |
| schestowitz | But those who tried to 'steal' it will get the RTM for free | Aug 02 16:54 |
| schestowitz | It was in the news some days ago | Aug 02 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Part of the Vista 7 PR Slog | Aug 02 16:54 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: depends where | Aug 02 16:54 |
| schestowitz | 80% of total sales | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | As in, Microsoft will count sales and then say how much OEMs buy | Aug 02 16:55 |
| wallclimber | I'm looking it up...it was the Beta Build 1 | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | BB1 | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | BetaVista7 Ultra Supreme Ed. | Aug 02 16:55 |
| shreddar | well they their financial reports so yes. | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | It has gotten fatter | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | No kidding | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | People who tested it say RC is fat | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | So it won't fit well on PCs | Aug 02 16:55 |
| schestowitz | Wait. And. Watch. | Aug 02 16:56 |
| schestowitz | They will talk about it in the press a lot more when Vista 7 is used by real angry people and Microsoft TEs can't keep up with them (silencing dissent) | Aug 02 16:56 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: DIlger doesn't do the cartoons anymore | Aug 02 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Either lack of time or realisation that it makes the site look funny-yet-less-professional | Aug 02 16:57 |
| shreddar | what? | Aug 02 16:57 |
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| schestowitz | shreddar: RDMaf | Aug 02 16:57 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: RDMag | Aug 02 16:57 |
| schestowitz | What's this about? http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Barney-Actimates/dp/B000AQOH2Q | Aug 02 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Is that what's bundles with XP? | Aug 02 16:57 |
| schestowitz | For people to put next to the PC to suit default wallpaper? | Aug 02 16:58 |
| shreddar | No it's refferenced in Dvoraks article | Aug 02 16:58 |
| schestowitz | Or its it the Micro-softwear thing? | Aug 02 16:58 |
| schestowitz | The whole "buy shirts from us' gig? | Aug 02 16:58 |
| wallclimber | Dvorak lists all MS faulures, and Creepy Barney was one of them | Aug 02 16:58 |
| wallclimber | *failures* | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I can't wait to buy my Madoff t-shirt too | Aug 02 16:59 |
| shreddar | Microsoft made a barney toy. | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Go out and flaunt being associated with a convicted monopolist... Gah! | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: maybe that's why they offshore to the east | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Job Vacancy: | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Skills requires: operating machine | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | ducation: knitting | Aug 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Salary: $20 (per day0 | Aug 02 17:00 |
| wallclimber | knitting? | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does it the ol' skool wat | Aug 02 17:00 |
| wallclimber | booties? | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | *way | Aug 02 17:00 |
| wallclimber | blankets? | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | No | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Patented drugs | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is good at monopolising things | Aug 02 17:00 |
| shreddar | Not really | Aug 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Gates was accused of monopolising AIDS research | Aug 02 17:01 |
| shreddar | really? | Aug 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | For profit, probbaly. He invests in the stakeholders | Aug 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: yes | Aug 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | It was in /. | Aug 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | And NYT IIRC | Aug 02 17:01 |
| shreddar | F*(& | Aug 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | It was some academics or WHO that accused him | Aug 02 17:01 |
| shreddar | Well, I believe their is already a cure | Aug 02 17:02 |
| shreddar | It's drug companies that want to suppress it. | Aug 02 17:02 |
| Eruaran | Perhaps he wants to monetize suffering in a novel way | Aug 02 17:02 |
| shreddar | some lady in africa has atibodies or somethin' | Aug 02 17:02 |
| shreddar | anti-bodies | Aug 02 17:02 |
| wallclimber | drug companies make WAY more money in ongoing treatments than cures | Aug 02 17:02 |
| wallclimber | in their eyes you're a better customer if you have to take their meds for the rest of your life, as long as they prolong your life | Aug 02 17:03 |
| Eruaran | Cure patients (users) but with something that keeps them sick. Captive market. | Aug 02 17:04 |
| wallclimber | if you're cured they lose money | Aug 02 17:04 |
| wallclimber | on the other hand, an occasional cure is good for their stocks | Aug 02 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Needs Big Acquisitions < http://www.thestreet.com/story/10554321/1/microsoft-needs-big-acquisitions.html?cm_ven=GOOGLEN > Yeah, just what consumers need: less choice | Aug 02 17:05 |
| wallclimber | they just don't want to cure too much | Aug 02 17:05 |
| shreddar | I think AIDs was manufactored to begin with | Aug 02 17:05 |
| schestowitz | Same with insurance companies, shreddar | Aug 02 17:06 |
| shreddar | like alot of biological weapons | Aug 02 17:06 |
| wallclimber | okay, discussing drug companies makes my blood pressure rise...lol | Aug 02 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Ill people with no coverage=> chaos => more dependence | Aug 02 17:06 |
| shreddar | profit | Aug 02 17:06 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yeah, but remember the slogans | Aug 02 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Patents=innovation | Aug 02 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Drug companies=saving people | Aug 02 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Insurance=making us scure | Aug 02 17:07 |
| schestowitz | War in Iraq=defending American soil | Aug 02 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Memorise these.... it's your dose and your patriotic duty | Aug 02 17:07 |
| schestowitz | ;-) | Aug 02 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft has new leas AstroTurfer and his trooPR Ina Fried writes about her new boss(ish): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10297575-56.html | Aug 02 17:08 |
| schestowitz | This whole PR junk is disgraceful | Aug 02 17:09 |
| schestowitz | A bunch of people lying for a living | Aug 02 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Like the above example, they perfume/beautify it to themselves | Aug 02 17:09 |
| wallclimber | Waggoner Edstrom again...sheesh | Aug 02 17:09 |
| schestowitz | The guy who grants monopolies says he increases innova~1 | Aug 02 17:09 |
| schestowitz | The marketer is just "helping small poor companies" | Aug 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | The banker is "helping the poor people get loans" | Aug 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | The lawyer is there to save humanity from... well... other lawyers. | Aug 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Etc etcl;. | Aug 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Dina Bass:" Microsoft Prescribes Permanent ‘Diet’ as Sales Slump" | Aug 02 17:12 |
| schestowitz | More praise. | Aug 02 17:12 |
| schestowitz | E-mails show Dina Bass as close to Microsoft | Aug 02 17:12 |
| wallclimber | Shaw says he's "allowed to fail"...that's soooo reassuring | Aug 02 17:12 |
| schestowitz | She only knows WIndows, say Microsoft people | Aug 02 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Shaw should be sent to a vacation in some island | Aug 02 17:12 |
| schestowitz | These are the smiling people who don't exactly make people smile | Aug 02 17:13 |
| schestowitz | They attack other people's businesses | Aug 02 17:13 |
| schestowitz | And spread junk like this: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-outlines-three-tenets-for-office-web-apps.ars | Aug 02 17:13 |
| schestowitz | PR is the new name for propaganda since WW2 | Aug 02 17:13 |
| schestowitz | The Nazis gave the ideas a bad name | Aug 02 17:13 |
| schestowitz | But the methods remain identical | Aug 02 17:13 |
| schestowitz | The underlying psychology of influencing minds is taught at PR schools where surf dudes (and gals) learn how to distribute deception and be all smooth about it | Aug 02 17:14 |
| shreddar | How Microsoft can take out Google. Make their search result better with more servers and offer free advertising to every one of Googles current clients. | Aug 02 17:14 |
| wallclimber | I'm thinkin' that Google is seriously not worried about Bing or Yahoo | Aug 02 17:15 |
| natas | Watch out for Godwin's law Schestowitz | Aug 02 17:16 |
| shreddar | $$$$$$$$$$:::::::::::............ <disinigrating> | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | BTW, that Ars Technica article is one among many of that PR batch (W-E prodding journos) to push away the real news: http://www.techspot.com/news/35620-microsoft-publishes-emergency-ie-patch.html | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | natas: none touched there | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Propaganda history is real | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | PR was coined by Benays | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Bernays | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | After WW2 when "propaganda" got a bad connotation | Aug 02 17:16 |
| schestowitz | He adopted some of the lessons from his uncle Sigmund | Aug 02 17:17 |
| schestowitz | natas: Godwin's law is about comparisons. None made here | Aug 02 17:17 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: there's no Bing and Yahoo! | Aug 02 17:17 |
| natas | its about comparisons with nazi's | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | Thus they needn't worry | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | They folded the better engine among the two | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | natas: it's not | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | I said that "PR" was coined because of the Nazi era | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | That's an historical fact | Aug 02 17:18 |
| natas | ""As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3]" | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | Godwin law would have to involve a comparison | Aug 02 17:18 |
| schestowitz | natas: keyword "comparison" | Aug 02 17:19 |
| shreddar | Propaganda Relations | Aug 02 17:19 |
| schestowitz | They could call it that | Aug 02 17:19 |
| hmmm, M$ can't keep it's PR people on staff? Or do they just fire them all? | Aug 02 17:19 | |
| schestowitz | As I remember it, it was a panel thing | Aug 02 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Like the "open source" thing | Aug 02 17:19 |
| schestowitz | A bunch of people in the room thinking of names | Aug 02 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Open source in the late 90s | Aug 02 17:19 |
| shreddar | Erectile Disfuntion | Aug 02 17:19 |
| natas | [02:34] <@schestowitz> PR is the new name for propaganda since WW2 | Aug 02 17:20 |
| schestowitz | People like ORLY, | Aug 02 17:20 |
| schestowitz | PR was coined by a group to | Aug 02 17:20 |
| schestowitz | natas: I'll get you refs | Aug 02 17:20 |
| schestowitz | There's also a BBC programme | Aug 02 17:20 |
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| schestowitz | But Wikipedia ought to have the backgroudn too | Aug 02 17:20 |
| natas | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law | Aug 02 17:21 |
| schestowitz | natas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dA89CBBOC0 | Aug 02 17:22 |
| wallclimber | In the most recent Comes exhibit, one of my favorite lines is this: | Aug 02 17:22 |
| wallclimber | "Obviously, in terms of economic effects, IP is on par with motherhood & apple pie in its role in the world economy." | Aug 02 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Learn the history of PR | Aug 02 17:22 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: Glyn Moody put it well... | Aug 02 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Let me find it.. | Aug 02 17:22 |
| schestowitz | http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/07/batik-makers-say-tidak-to-copyright.html http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/07/are-patents-intellectual-monopolies-you.html | Aug 02 17:23 |
| schestowitz | http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/07/whats.html What Are Intellectual Monopolies For? | Aug 02 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Patents Part of a "Neo-colonialist Plot" -- Glyn Moody http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/07/whats.html | Aug 02 17:23 |
| schestowitz | "If you still doubted that intellectual monopolies are in part a neo-colonialist plot to ensure the continuing dominance of Western nations..." | Aug 02 17:24 |
| schestowitz | It's the ability to say, "I can have this idea, you can't" | Aug 02 17:24 |
| *shreddar has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Aug 02 17:24 | |
| schestowitz | "So give me your cattle and minerals and in return I'll sell you soke 'IP'" | Aug 02 17:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] NY Times portrays GE's censorship of Olbermann as a normal occurrence. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/business/media/01feud.html | Aug 02 17:24 | |
| schestowitz | GE lobbies for software patents and owns NBC | Aug 02 17:24 |
| wallclimber | Mostly I thought it was interesting that they want people to equate "mom and apple pie" with IP | Aug 02 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Who said this? | Aug 02 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Vinod? | Aug 02 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Eye Pea Pie | Aug 02 17:25 |
| fewa | wallclimber, ? | Aug 02 17:25 |
| wallclimber | It's in the most recent Comes | Aug 02 17:25 |
| fewa | *wtf | Aug 02 17:26 |
| http://bayimg.com/eAgCLAabl | Aug 02 17:26 | |
| fewa | yeah, if reason can't win, try emotion | Aug 02 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Puts Positive Spin on Sales Drop < http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/169386/microsoft_puts_positive_spin_on_sales_drop.html > | Aug 02 17:26 |
| black shirts and world domination invite some things. | Aug 02 17:26 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft? Spin? No way!! | Aug 02 17:26 |
| wallclimber | 6. Securing our Current & Future IP | Aug 02 17:26 |
| wallclimber | under that heading, page 3 | Aug 02 17:26 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: IP address? :-) | Aug 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Just get a static IP from the ISP | Aug 02 17:27 |
| fewa | 6. Making people worship us | Aug 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz | THat'll sort em out... unless they made up something... | Aug 02 17:27 |
| wallclimber | lol...you're confusing me | Aug 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Let's create something called inellectual oxygen | Aug 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz | We can pollute all the air | Aug 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz | And then sell premium air | Aug 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz | CHarge a bundle for it | Aug 02 17:28 |
| schestowitz | That's the business model of inellectual oxygen (IO) | Aug 02 17:28 |
| LOL, from the Fried article -> Shaw, who has headed the Microsoft account at the agency, replaces Simon Sproule, who was in the post for just a few months | Aug 02 17:28 | |
| can you fail harder please? | Aug 02 17:28 | |
| schestowitz | He ran away | Aug 02 17:28 |
| schestowitz | I noted this in an update in BN | Aug 02 17:28 |
| screaming, I'm sure. | Aug 02 17:28 | |
| schestowitz | I sometimes update old posts and people don't notice | Aug 02 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Either corrections or added info | Aug 02 17:29 |
| schestowitz | "Car businss sucks right now," he''d proabbly say | Aug 02 17:29 |
| wallclimber | well...while I'm reading this, I have two home made apple pies in the oven, baking | Aug 02 17:29 |
| schestowitz | "But not as bad as MSFT" | Aug 02 17:29 |
| more lols, -> Shaw will officially trade in his orange vendor badge for a blue Microsoft employee one on August 24. | Aug 02 17:29 | |
| ah, the prestige and the glory of a blue badge | Aug 02 17:29 | |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: cool. Can I come over? | Aug 02 17:29 |
| wallclimber | sure! | Aug 02 17:30 |
| apple pie | Aug 02 17:30 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: blue badge sounds weird | Aug 02 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Like they are a KGB mini | Aug 02 17:30 |
| it is weird | Aug 02 17:30 | |
| schestowitz | "We're getting the gang back together." --J Allard, high Microsoft senior(2007) | Aug 02 17:30 |
| wallclimber | if I could send you all slices thru IRC I'd do it...everyone but Mutex, that is | Aug 02 17:30 |
| they have a rigid little pecking order with Gates at the top. | Aug 02 17:31 | |
| schestowitz | Someone I know calls them a "ring" | Aug 02 17:31 |
| It's virtual pie, Mutex can eat it too. | Aug 02 17:31 | |
| schestowitz | Because of influence in govts | Aug 02 17:31 |
| schestowitz | Gates can too | Aug 02 17:31 |
| wallclimber | i might add some sour grapes to his slice | Aug 02 17:31 |
| schestowitz | I have a video.. | Aug 02 17:31 |
| schestowitz | Or Gates eating pie | Aug 02 17:31 |
| schestowitz | But he got it all over himself | Aug 02 17:31 |
| there was a video about Mojave that mixed the pie throwing thing very well. | Aug 02 17:32 | |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft: Revenues drop 17 percent" | Aug 02 17:32 |
| schestowitz | MS is still spinning this one | Aug 02 17:32 |
| schestowitz | And they miss the key thing | Aug 02 17:32 |
| damage control | Aug 02 17:32 | |
| schestowitz | Profit down sharply | Aug 02 17:32 |
| schestowitz | And financial fraud in the past | Aug 02 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Debt-taking | Aug 02 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Many sites still pretend XBox360 is a success | Aug 02 17:33 |
| schestowitz | I bet W-E and MS feed them this disinfo | Aug 02 17:33 |
| schestowitz | And they parrot it to overwhelm the turth | Aug 02 17:33 |
| wallclimber | i had to laugh at Ballmer declaring that people "just don't get it" with the Yahoo thing | Aug 02 17:33 |
| schestowitz | The truth is that XBox lost like $5-6bn | Aug 02 17:33 |
| schestowitz | And they don't want people to know this as it would start a stampede to other consoles | Aug 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yes, many reports on that | Aug 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | "Even as the broader market rallied, Yahoo shares dropped as much as 6 percent on Thursday. The stock recovered a little in late trading, but is still down 14 percent since the agreement was announced on Wednesday morning." http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE56T6H220090730 | Aug 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | YHOO got nixed when Bartzmer was put in charge | Aug 02 17:34 |
| wallclimber | Ballmer apparently "sees" things that no one else does | Aug 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Decker was supposed to be in charge | Aug 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Bartzmer said at first she did not come to sell the company | Aug 02 17:34 |
| wallclimber | will ballmer ever be fired? | Aug 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Not at all | Aug 02 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Just to sell OUT | Aug 02 17:35 |
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| schestowitz | wallclimber: investors want him fired | Aug 02 17:35 |
| schestowitz | They E-mailed me too | Aug 02 17:35 |
| schestowitz | They created a coalitaiton | Aug 02 17:35 |
| schestowitz | No idea where it got | Aug 02 17:35 |
| shreddar | I changed browsers in the hope that I wouldn't be disconnected again. | Aug 02 17:35 |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Aug 02 17:35 | |
| wallclimber | what hold does he have that he can't be gotten rid of, I wonder? | Aug 02 17:36 |
| shreddar | I was using Chrome Beta for Linux | Aug 02 17:36 |
| schestowitz | No influential people left in Microsoft | Aug 02 17:36 |
| schestowitz | Too many departures | Aug 02 17:36 |
| schestowitz | So no-one can sack him or replace him with... well, who? | Aug 02 17:36 |
| schestowitz | Even VIsta 7 was given to some no-namer | Aug 02 17:36 |
| schestowitz | A guy who was lower management for ages | Aug 02 17:37 |
| shreddar | Once Bill left I think the pretty much implied they were through | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Vaghte IIRC | Aug 02 17:37 |
| shreddar | He a investor | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | He didn't leave, shreddar | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | See his trip to India for example | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | He's now a lobbyist for MSFT | Aug 02 17:37 |
| shreddar | But he's not the CEO | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | He wasn't for ages | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | He made Ballmer CEO when Microsoft failed badly | Aug 02 17:37 |
| wallclimber | so is billg afraid of steve? | Aug 02 17:37 |
| shreddar | If Microsoft tanks then who's going to go down? | Aug 02 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Don't know | Aug 02 17:38 |
| who cares? | Aug 02 17:38 | |
| schestowitz | He's like McNealy, the insane version | Aug 02 17:38 |
| schestowitz | And McNealy was not a thug, AFAIK | Aug 02 17:38 |
| M$ is full of thugs | Aug 02 17:38 | |
| schestowitz | They can find some ponytailed guy to put the company to sleep | Aug 02 17:38 |
| schestowitz | twitter: some left | Aug 02 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Like Joachim Kempin, Allchin, Maritz... | Aug 02 17:39 |
| I doubt the replacements are any better. | Aug 02 17:39 | |
| schestowitz | But they may end up in another criminal org | Aug 02 17:39 |
| wallclimber | i always thought, if things got too bad for MS, they'd sell off Office...though I think they'd do what SCO is trying to do | Aug 02 17:39 |
| schestowitz | I hear that VMware has fraud going | Aug 02 17:39 |
| schestowitz | A former employee told me | Aug 02 17:39 |
| wallclimber | and only sell it to a "friend" so they can keep control | Aug 02 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Vmware is run by former Microsoft thug/s | Aug 02 17:39 |
| shreddar | No they sould Open Source Office and Windows. | Aug 02 17:39 |
| shreddar | They sue for patents | Aug 02 17:39 |
| shreddar | Or they could be like Sun and put their EULA in the license | Aug 02 17:40 |
| wallclimber | wouldn't open sourcing windows or office be a cause of great embarassment for ms? | Aug 02 17:40 |
| I don't think they can find a sucker that would take the deal. Who wants M$ Office? | Aug 02 17:40 | |
| shreddar | Make everyone else fix thier bug | Aug 02 17:40 |
| M$ will go free or perish. | Aug 02 17:41 | |
| there is no real alternative for them | Aug 02 17:41 | |
| schestowitz | Remember FAST? http://www.infoworld.com/d/applications/microsofts-fast-search-mate-social-networking-907 | Aug 02 17:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft blew a billion on another search company | Aug 02 17:41 |
| schestowitz | Not much came out of it except for fraud | Aug 02 17:41 |
| YaF | Aug 02 17:41 | |
| shreddar | The only reason they don't is because others would use undocumented APIs | Aug 02 17:42 |
| schestowitz | That fraud situation still stans | Aug 02 17:42 |
| Yet another Fraud. | Aug 02 17:42 | |
| wallclimber | might there not be things in windows and office code that they don't want anyone to know about? | Aug 02 17:42 |
| wallclimber | just curious | Aug 02 17:42 |
| probably | Aug 02 17:42 | |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yes | Aug 02 17:42 |
| schestowitz | They are not ready for it | Aug 02 17:42 |
| shreddar | like gimped ODF? | Aug 02 17:42 |
| they filled it with anti competitive stuff for Word Perfect | Aug 02 17:42 | |
| schestowitz | They said so | Aug 02 17:42 |
| wallclimber | the potential law suits could be huge | Aug 02 17:43 |
| shreddar | intentionally gimped | Aug 02 17:43 |
| those will come anyway. | Aug 02 17:43 | |
| shreddar | like Windows 2 and 3 on top of DR-DOS gimped | Aug 02 17:43 |
| they have already lost many over the same issues | Aug 02 17:43 | |
| schestowitz | Ballmer: "[W]e’ve worked very hard on making the value of a commercial company surpass what the open source community can deliver, because frankly, it’s not a business model we can embrace. It’s inconsistent with shareholder value." | Aug 02 17:43 |
| schestowitz | From http://www.microsoft.com/msft/speech/FY07/BallmerFAM2007.mspx | Aug 02 17:43 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: they have just been sued again | Aug 02 17:44 |
| schestowitz | Over XBox360 | Aug 02 17:44 |
| Ballmer is entitled to his opinion. Reality is showing something else. | Aug 02 17:44 | |
| schestowitz | http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6214434.html | Aug 02 17:44 |
| shreddar | Yep shareholders would leave in droves if the did open source | Aug 02 17:44 |
| schestowitz | twitter: yes, that they need to sell h/w | Aug 02 17:44 |
| schestowitz | Like IBM | Aug 02 17:44 |
| schestowitz | THey tried | Aug 02 17:45 |
| Balrog__ | shareholders are already upset over Ballmer's words | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | XBox, Zune... | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | All failed | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: some want him out | Aug 02 17:45 |
| shreddar | You mean becoming a Ad company? | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | It's impossible to speak for all of them. | Aug 02 17:45 |
| shreddar | or something else? | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | They even whitewash a collapse in profits | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | For 2 consecutive qtrs | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft and INTC now deny netbooks are an issue to them | Aug 02 17:45 |
| Balrog__ | Most don't consider XBox a failure | Aug 02 17:45 |
| schestowitz | That;'s another contradictiobn | Aug 02 17:45 |
| wallclimber | i'm curious who in MS doesn't want him out...he can't be easy to work for or with | Aug 02 17:46 |
| Balrog__ | Zune, on the other hand, is obvious | Aug 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: that's cause of naivety | Aug 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | XBox *IS* a failure | Aug 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer reluctantly admits this | Aug 02 17:46 |
| shreddar | Consumer Devices are a money pit for MS | Aug 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Last year he called Zune and XBox funny profucts | Aug 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Cause they can't make money off that | Aug 02 17:46 |
| schestowitz | had it not been for Win+MSO they would be out on the street with so many fialures | Aug 02 17:47 |
| shreddar | They've lost quite a bit more that $10 billion on them. | Aug 02 17:47 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: new: http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-whats-become-microsofts-answer-the-ipod-bc-cpt-/2009/07/29/4298759.htm | Aug 02 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | "To be sure, the Zune provides a tiny, and apparently deteriorating portion of Microsoft's business. Revenue for the non-gaming side of Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices unit, which includes the Zune, tumbled 42 percent to roughly $211 million for the fourth fiscal quarter ended in June _ or about 2 percent of the software giant's total, according to regulatory filings." | Aug 02 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | "To be sure, the Zune provides a tiny, and apparently deteriorating portion of Microsoft's business. Revenue for the non-gaming side of Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices unit, which includes the Zune, tumbled 42 percent to roughly $211 million for the fourth fiscal quarter ended in June _ or about 2 percent of the software giant's total, according to regulatory filings." | Aug 02 17:48 |
| ThistleWeb | if or when MS drop the xbox, will the then use the FCC to investigate Sony for having a monopoly on the high end game console market by default? | Aug 02 17:48 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: "What's shocking is that the cash cows, specifically the Windows operating system and the Office suite, have managed to finance all these idiotic efforts for so many years. While Microsoft's profits and sales were way down this last quarter, it is only a matter of time before losses begin. Read more about the disappointing earnings." http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-the-party-over-for-microsoft-2009-07-24 | Aug 02 17:48 |
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| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: not FCC | Aug 02 17:48 |
| schestowitz | Maybe FTC or ITC | Aug 02 17:48 |
| schestowitz | Cause they also need to embargo imports | Aug 02 17:48 |
| schestowitz | Where is XBox360 assembled anyway? | Aug 02 17:48 |
| schestowitz | Taiwan? China? | Aug 02 17:49 |
| shreddar | ThistleWeb they'll fail because of Nintendo dominated the market | Aug 02 17:49 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft stores coming to Arizona and California < http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/07/microsoft-stores-coming-to-arizona-and-california.ars > Now you can do to Microsoft what Kramer did to Barn Yard | Aug 02 17:50 |
| ThistleWeb | nintendo fill the lower end, sony and MS the high end | Aug 02 17:50 |
| schestowitz | You can now yell at Microsoft people right to their face | Aug 02 17:50 |
| ThistleWeb | which would be down to just sony when MS gove up ont he xbox | Aug 02 17:50 |
| wallclimber | when the MS store opens in Scottsdale, I'm going to visit it | Aug 02 17:50 |
| shreddar | low end and high end doesn't matter with the courts | Aug 02 17:50 |
| schestowitz | You know what vanished from the headline this week totally? Bong | Aug 02 17:51 |
| schestowitz | It's history | Aug 02 17:51 |
| shreddar | bing? | Aug 02 17:51 |
| schestowitz | It's a good thing we have Google News Archives to document that stuff (Bong Search) | Aug 02 17:52 |
| wallclimber | bing is a cherry...it has pits | Aug 02 17:52 |
| schestowitz | gizmodo.com/.../zune-guerrilla-marketer-arrested-at-sxsw-244276.php < Gizmodo - Zune Guerrilla Marketer Arrested at SXSW - Arrests > | Aug 02 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Gizmodo seems to be down | Aug 02 17:52 |
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| shreddar | the link is broke | Aug 02 17:53 |
| Omar87 | Hi guys! | Aug 02 17:53 |
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| shreddar | hey | Aug 02 17:53 |
| Xarver | hello | Aug 02 17:54 |
| Omar87 | When you wander around FSDaily, do you guys notice ads about Visual Studio Team System? | Aug 02 17:54 |
| Omar87 | Could those ads be coming through AdBard? | Aug 02 17:54 |
| Omar87 | Shouldn't we notify the FSDaily staff about this? | Aug 02 17:55 |
| shreddar | Side Topic: Did Technical Evangelist popularise the use of Fanboy as derogotory or was that just projection? | Aug 02 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Nintendo profit falls 66 percent < http://news.stv.tv/business/112668-nintendo-profit-falls-66-percent/ > | Aug 02 17:56 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: I know. THe site's down | Aug 02 17:56 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: I think they have something except Ad Bard | Aug 02 17:56 |
| Omar87 | Except? | Aug 02 17:57 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: who was called "fanboi" first? I see it used against Apple a lot | Aug 02 17:57 |
| schestowitz | "Shillboy" | Aug 02 17:57 |
| shreddar | I see it used agaist all of MSs competitiors | Aug 02 17:58 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I think we should tell the to remove it one way or another, because it does not relate to FOSS in any way. | Aug 02 17:58 |
| shreddar | IBM Apple Sony Nintendo | Aug 02 17:58 |
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| schestowitz | shreddar: I never saw the word internally at Microsoft | Aug 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | But Mary Jo Foley used the word to refer to APple fans when she E-mailed me | Aug 02 17:59 |
| seller_liar | I was thinking.... | Aug 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Maybe W-E would use the word | Aug 02 17:59 |
| seller_liar | Is it possible to microsoft have some association with centos attack? | Aug 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | No | Aug 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Lance | Aug 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Not related to them | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | BUT.. | Aug 02 18:00 |
| seller_liar | Maybe , ms payed lance | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | The attack on CEntOS int he press might | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | I mean, they spread FUD | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | That sticks in people's memory. | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | "Centos... dying... dead' | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | It came from sites I don;'t trust, either. | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | That's why I made a post fast | Aug 02 18:00 |
| seller_liar | because centos and fedora is derived from red hat | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | And I was right, it was reolved quickly | Aug 02 18:00 |
| seller_liar | ms hates red hat | Aug 02 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Aug 02 18:01 |
| Balrog_ | well at least it's resolved | Aug 02 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft attacked Red Hat the other day | Aug 02 18:01 |
| schestowitz | In its Redmond 'newsppaers | Aug 02 18:01 |
| schestowitz | I could find it if you wish | Aug 02 18:01 |
| schestowitz | I just prefer not to draw attention to it | Aug 02 18:01 |
| seller_liar | don t worry I will find thanks | Aug 02 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's cockey illusion of a 'press' is some kind of stain on the news feeds (Google) | Aug 02 18:01 |
| seller_liar | microsoft is desperate | Aug 02 18:02 |
| seller_liar | is attacking everything | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Never directly | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | They use shills | Aug 02 18:02 |
| seller_liar | wikipedia, slashdot , forums and all other media | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | And other drone companies | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Like SCO | Aug 02 18:02 |
| seller_liar | yes | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Even Novell | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | To the extent that they can | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | They have faithful folks there like de Icaza | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | And former employess of Microsoft liek Nat Friedman | Aug 02 18:02 |
| seller_liar | Icaza is a hypocrite | Aug 02 18:02 |
| schestowitz | So the SUSE desktop is now coordinated by a Microsoft guy | Aug 02 18:03 |
| seller_liar | Icaza talks is not your fault about ms deal | Aug 02 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu's the same in a way | Aug 02 18:03 |
| seller_liar | but he is lying | Aug 02 18:03 |
| schestowitz | A desktop manager or whatever came from Microsoft to do Ubuntu | Aug 02 18:03 |
| schestowitz | The one who wants GIMP removed.. | Aug 02 18:03 |
| *desu (n=desu@unaffiliated/desu) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 18:03 | |
| schestowitz | To replace with Fspot (Mono0 | Aug 02 18:03 |
| seller_liar | Microsoft is attacking inside | Aug 02 18:04 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: it's back(server): http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/zune-guerrilla-marketer-arrested-at-sxsw-244276.php (Zune Guerrilla Marketer Arrested at SXSW) | Aug 02 18:04 |
| wallclimber | why on earth would anyone think that fspot would be a good Gimp replacement??? | Aug 02 18:04 |
| shreddar | schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=3597 | Aug 02 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Guerrilla Marketer==shill | Aug 02 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Watch the photo | Aug 02 18:04 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: not just in Novell | Aug 02 18:05 |
| schestowitz | There's also an injection of anti-GNU people inside FOSS | Aug 02 18:05 |
| shreddar | It seem they still want people to upgrade to more expensive Windows. | Aug 02 18:05 |
| schestowitz | People who don't give a damn about FOSS | Aug 02 18:05 |
| schestowitz | They exploit it and insult those who care | Aug 02 18:05 |
| seller_liar | yes ,I know | Aug 02 18:05 |
| schestowitz | [about FOSS] | Aug 02 18:05 |
| shreddar | I noticed that too. | Aug 02 18:05 |
| seller_liar | Greg kH is an example | Aug 02 18:05 |
| shreddar | Linus | Aug 02 18:06 |
| seller_liar | Linus in last article was very ,very stupid | Aug 02 18:06 |
| shreddar | Lately he seems to value develpement proccess more than freedom | Aug 02 18:06 |
| seller_liar | Linus is hating gplv3 progress and fsf progress | Aug 02 18:06 |
| Xarver | Why? | Aug 02 18:07 |
| shreddar | GPLv3 would make Micorosoft's code more exceptible. | Aug 02 18:07 |
| seller_liar | because gplv3 is not exploitable to give more and more money at cost of freedom | Aug 02 18:07 |
| Xarver | oh | Aug 02 18:08 |
| schestowitz | I never managed to find out why the previous CFO of MSFT jumped ship: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nz-cfo-microsoft-turns-his-hand-slashing-costs-106778 | Aug 02 18:08 |
| schestowitz | Their new guy (CFO) came from the PAPER INDUSTRY | Aug 02 18:08 |
| seller_liar | gplv3 protects the user against tivoization | Aug 02 18:08 |
| seller_liar | a common strategy used in embedded technology | Aug 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: not just them | Aug 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | Also some companies that use Linux | Aug 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | They treat it like proprietary | Aug 02 18:09 |
| seller_liar | and other non pcs technologies | Aug 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | And try to make it so | Aug 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | Then they vilify those who stand in their way | Aug 02 18:09 |
| seller_liar | this is because linux does not like gplv3 | Aug 02 18:09 |
| seller_liar | because it protects against proprietarization of free software | Aug 02 18:10 |
| schestowitz | It's about money to him/them | Aug 02 18:10 |
| schestowitz | IBM seems to be quitly in favour | Aug 02 18:10 |
| schestowitz | The "conspiracy of silence" of Pieter called it | Aug 02 18:10 |
| schestowitz | *quietly | Aug 02 18:10 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guide2.co.nz/money/news/business/nz-cfo-at-microsoft-turns-his-hand-to-slashing-costs/11/9832 | Aug 02 18:11 |
| schestowitz | "Also a former managing director of merchant bank CS First Boston NZ Ltd, and a former director of the New Zealand Rugby Union, Mr Liddell told the Wall Street Journal that there was a sense that the software sector had "hit bottom"." | Aug 02 18:11 |
| seller_liar | IBM does not like gpl | Aug 02 18:11 |
| shreddar | Does anyone think there's a chance of Software patent becoming enforcable? | Aug 02 18:11 |
| seller_liar | IBM uses permissive licenses and pressure linux foundation to use gplv2 | Aug 02 18:11 |
| schestowitz | tessier: do you have public posts about the ActiveX silencing incident? | Aug 02 18:12 |
| seller_liar | I don t know , IBM is a monster which engulfs all technology of world | Aug 02 18:12 |
| seller_liar | IBM is a "satisfied" company | Aug 02 18:12 |
| schestowitz | In a way, not entirely | Aug 02 18:12 |
| seller_liar | because it have more than 90 billion in stock | Aug 02 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Some Asian companies are vastly bigger | Aug 02 18:13 |
| schestowitz | But they are in manufacturing | Aug 02 18:13 |
| natas | IBM probably use GPLv2 because the Kernel is GPLv2 and IBM dont really do aps they do mainframe OS's. | Aug 02 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Sub-contractors to American giants, for now | Aug 02 18:13 |
| natas | IIBM is a hardware company. | Aug 02 18:13 |
| seller_liar | Monopoly over mainframes | Aug 02 18:13 |
| natas | yes, thats true, and they get into anti-trust troubles for it as well. | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | natas is Mutex | Aug 02 18:14 |
| seller_liar | IBM must lose power | Aug 02 18:14 |
| natas | Or embrace and extinguish their opposition. | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | The bloody troll | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Nyshifts again | Aug 02 18:14 |
| seller_liar | IBM must be 1/10 of size | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Tries to accuse of Godwin Laww | Aug 02 18:14 |
| shreddar | IBM would still have us paying 10,000 dollars for PCs | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Results | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | 58.168.80.134 resolves to | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | "CPE-58-168-80-134.nsw.bigpond.net.au" | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Top Level Domain: "net.au" | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Country IP Address: AUSTRALIA | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | To get registration information from the Internet "Whois" database for net.au: | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Frequently Asked Questions | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Return to Main Page | Aug 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | This is a free service provided as-is without any warranty or guarantee whatsoever. So that this service is available for everyone to use, please limit lookups to less than 75 per 24 hour period. Thanks for your understanding.--- Frank | Aug 02 18:14 |
| natas | “so what are you so scared of Roy ? why do I put so much fear into you ? seems like you dont like to have your beliefs questioned or checked” | Aug 02 18:14 |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Aug 02 18:15 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 02 18:15 | |
| seller_liar | Is nata troll?? | Aug 02 18:15 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-mfawbeycojdoszza | Aug 02 18:15 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked natas from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 18:15 | |
| schestowitz | Yes | Aug 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: he has used almost 20 names | Aug 02 18:15 |
| seller_liar | wow | Aug 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | he keeps coming back at a rapid rate | Aug 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | Must be some paid shill or something | Aug 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | Personal attacks too | Aug 02 18:15 |
| seller_liar | How trolls have so much time to do these things? | Aug 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | He's from "Linsux" | Aug 02 18:16 |
| seller_liar | I think the all trolls are payed for someone | Aug 02 18:16 |
| schestowitz | The anti-Linux site | Aug 02 18:16 |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Aug 02 18:16 | |
| schestowitz | He'll be back | Aug 02 18:16 |
| schestowitz | He has been back who knows how many time...? | Aug 02 18:16 |
| schestowitz | *time | Aug 02 18:16 |
| schestowitz | *times | Aug 02 18:16 |
| schestowitz | Also in BN comments | Aug 02 18:16 |
| *DontLIVEinFEARof (i=3aa653db@gateway/web/freenode/x-ckfjpekmhqzxyfcl) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 18:17 | |
| seller_liar | Troll does not have a life | Aug 02 18:17 |
| seller_liar | It 's only a slave ..... | Aug 02 18:17 |
| seller_liar | from microsoft | Aug 02 18:17 |
| Xarver | lol | Aug 02 18:17 |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Aug 02 18:18 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 02 18:18 | |
| schestowitz | 58.166.83.219 resolves to | Aug 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | "CPE-58-166-83-219.nsw.bigpond.net.au" | Aug 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Top Level Domain: "net.au" | Aug 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Country IP Address: AUSTRALIA | Aug 02 18:18 |
| DontLIVEinFEARof | “so what are you so scared of Roy ? why do I put so much fear into you ? seems like you dont like to have your beliefs questioned or checked” | Aug 02 18:18 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-ckfjpekmhqzxyfcl | Aug 02 18:18 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked DontLIVEinFEARof from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 18:18 | |
| schestowitz | I'll keep op for now.. | Aug 02 18:18 |
| *TheReaper (i=3aaa13e1@gateway/web/freenode/x-oothcatcggilstsj) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 18:19 | |
| seller_liar | blocks this stupid DontLIVE | Aug 02 18:20 |
| *shreddar has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Aug 02 18:20 | |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: he nymshifts | Aug 02 18:21 |
| seller_liar | Block ip | Aug 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | He tries to lurk by doing all sorts of tricks | Aug 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | seller_liar: too manu | Aug 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Unless I block the whole ISP | Aug 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | We have several Australians here | Aug 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran, oiaohm... | Aug 02 18:21 |
| seller_liar | ok | Aug 02 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft gags security researchers: "Yesterday, security experts involved with two separate lines of research declined to comment further about the findings they had already published, saying or hinting that they were doing so at Microsoft's request." http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9135959/Researchers_clam_up_about_Microsoft_s_rush_patches | Aug 02 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft also did this to tessier | Aug 02 18:22 |
| schestowitz | But they demanded with a C&D (AFAIK) that he takes down a blog post about a vulnverability | Aug 02 18:23 |
| schestowitz | That's how Microsoft 'handles' security | Aug 02 18:23 |
| schestowitz | By intimidation and threats to sue | Aug 02 18:23 |
| *desu has quit (Connection timed out) | Aug 02 18:23 | |
| schestowitz | Plunge in Oil and Copper Drags Wall Street Lower http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/30/business/30markets.html?_r=1&hp | Aug 02 18:24 |
| schestowitz | CES to be opened up by two -- not one -- convicted monopolists. Wonderful.... http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090729005928&newsLang=en | Aug 02 18:28 |
| schestowitz | "U.S. District Judge Leonard Davis in Tyler, Texas, yesterday sided with VirnetX in the defining of key terms in patents it claims are infringed by Microsoft." | Aug 02 18:30 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aP.RW9XI64q8. | Aug 02 18:30 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip68-230-37-218.ph.ph.cox.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Ex-Chat") | Aug 02 18:33 | |
| *shreddar (i=62f0385c@gateway/web/freenode/x-hmweofssiovymrbp) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 18:34 | |
| shreddar | Well I keep getting disconnected | Aug 02 18:34 |
| shreddar | freenodes web client must be messed up. I'll use Pidgen if it does it again. | Aug 02 18:35 |
| shreddar | wait does freenode let you use your own client anymore? | Aug 02 18:38 |
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| ThistleWeb | freenode will work with most clients | Aug 02 18:40 |
| *ThistleWeb is on xchat | Aug 02 18:40 | |
| Balrog | Use X-Chat 2.0 | Aug 02 18:41 |
| Balrog | (the official Windows version of X-Chat is "shareware" | Aug 02 18:41 |
| ThistleWeb | never thought to look at the version number until now, I'm on 2.8.6 | Aug 02 18:41 |
| shreddar | I'm using Ubuntu | Aug 02 18:41 |
| ThistleWeb | there's a build for windows that's free | Aug 02 18:42 |
| shreddar | I have Pidgen | Aug 02 18:42 |
| ThistleWeb | freeware, not shareware | Aug 02 18:42 |
| shreddar | is it irc.freenode.net ? | Aug 02 18:42 |
| ThistleWeb | yes | Aug 02 18:42 |
| shreddar | alright I'll try it hold on. | Aug 02 18:43 |
| *shreddar has quit () | Aug 02 18:43 | |
| schestowitz | "I have been asked to start websites about the other Banksters. Today I am announcing the launch of www.JPMorgan666.com" http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/08/goldman-sachs-and-jp-morgan-banksters.html | Aug 02 18:44 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.81.14.246) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 18:44 | |
| Balrog | ThistleWeb: the official windows version is "shareware" | Aug 02 18:44 |
| Balrog | so if you're using windows you want the unofficial "x-chat 2.0" build | Aug 02 18:44 |
| Balrog | which is FOSS | Aug 02 18:44 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah the official one is shareware | Aug 02 18:46 |
| ThistleWeb | cant remember the url, but I did find the unnocifical build, free | Aug 02 18:46 |
| ThistleWeb | the reason they give, is that none of them develop on windows, so it's going out of their way to make a windows version | Aug 02 18:47 |
| *Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@pool-64-222-238-7.port.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 18:48 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] pygame 1.9.0 released - http://www.pygame.org/news.html May give it a little look..... #linux #python | Aug 02 18:50 | |
| schestowitz | Dvorak told me he'll write more nice things about Linux... | Aug 02 18:57 |
| tessier | schestowitz: ActiveX silencing incident? I'm not sure what you are referring to. | Aug 02 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Ballard said Microsoft tried to pull some info you published | Aug 02 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Unless it was someone else | Aug 02 19:00 |
| *shreddar1 (n=jeffrey@c-98-240-56-92.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:02 | |
| shreddar1 | OK I hade to use irssi instead | Aug 02 19:02 |
| shreddar1 | Pidgen would let me join any chats | Aug 02 19:02 |
| shreddar1 | wouldn't | Aug 02 19:02 |
| shreddar1 | not on freenode anyway | Aug 02 19:03 |
| ThistleWeb | I've always thought pidgin is a great all rounder, but not a great irc client | Aug 02 19:03 |
| ThistleWeb | shreddar1: did you try empathy? | Aug 02 19:04 |
| shreddar1 | no never heard of it? | Aug 02 19:04 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a kinda new pidgin | Aug 02 19:04 |
| ThistleWeb | from the gnome project | Aug 02 19:04 |
| ThistleWeb | pidgin with voice | Aug 02 19:04 |
| ThistleWeb | google for empathy gnome and you'll find it, it's also in most repos | Aug 02 19:05 |
| ThistleWeb | I believe it's planned to be the default PM client in gnome | Aug 02 19:05 |
| shreddar1 | I mad now because I acidentally removed the ubuntu logout/shudown button and have to use gnome version instead. | Aug 02 19:05 |
| tacone | it'll be the default in karmic koala i believe | Aug 02 19:05 |
| ThistleWeb | could be right, I know they want to get it in as soon as they deem it ready enough | Aug 02 19:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Real men program in C: http://is.gd/1ZmgK | Aug 02 19:06 | |
| schestowitz | shreddar1: I never shopped around for irc clients, but xchat works well. It's darn stable, too | Aug 02 19:06 |
| ThistleWeb | I've tried a few but keep going back to xchat | Aug 02 19:06 |
| shreddar1 | the only problem with irssi is the name dissapear after 20 lines of comments | Aug 02 19:07 |
| shreddar1 | nicks i mean | Aug 02 19:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @trmanco: sounds like a Linus quote | Aug 02 19:08 | |
| ThistleWeb | I find that any links posted that go beyond the edge and onto the next line are a PITA to copy and paste, as they cut off and dont get the rest of the link | Aug 02 19:09 |
| ThistleWeb | that could be the terminal more than the app thugh | Aug 02 19:09 |
| ThistleWeb | though* | Aug 02 19:10 |
| schestowitz | If You Have Nothing to Hide... < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/08/if-you-have-nothing-to-hide.html > | Aug 02 19:10 |
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| shreddar1 | Hey does anyone remember that Microsoft guy that went on the OS/2 dissusion group back in the mid 90s i think? | Aug 02 19:17 |
| shreddar1 | I can remember his alias it started with a 'b' i believe | Aug 02 19:18 |
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| shreddar1 | Did the IRC Chat split or something? | Aug 02 19:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | no | Aug 02 19:27 |
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| schestowitz | World Bank Initiates Carbon Footprint Analysis < http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/010233.html > | Aug 02 19:29 |
| schestowitz | shreddar1: I'll check another node | Aug 02 19:29 |
| schestowitz | IPv6: The essential guide < http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/073009-ipv6-guide.html?fsrc=netflash-rss > | Aug 02 19:30 |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.8.130) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:34 | |
| schestowitz | Blech. paying too much attention to shils4hire like IDC and Gartner only helps them do more of the same: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10300845-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad | Aug 02 19:34 |
| I agree. | Aug 02 19:35 | |
| schestowitz | Britain's rendition cover-up < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/jul/28/rendition-diego-garcia > | Aug 02 19:35 |
| *shreddar1 is now known as shreddar | Aug 02 19:38 | |
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| shreddar | Ok I got back my user switcher applet | Aug 02 19:39 |
| *Rex_cop (i=7cb86010@gateway/web/freenode/x-lpgvzoqwdeylzswc) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:41 | |
| schestowitz | Memories... http://alexking.org/blog/2006/08/16/ive-left-feedlounge | Aug 02 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Rex_cop: | Aug 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Rex_cop | Aug 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | 124.184.96.16 resolves to | Aug 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | "CPE-124-184-96-16.nsw.bigpond.net.au" | Aug 02 19:45 |
| *Tallken (n=Tallken@93.102.44.99.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:45 | |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Aug 02 19:45 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 02 19:45 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-lpgvzoqwdeylzswc | Aug 02 19:45 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Rex_cop from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 19:45 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Aug 02 19:45 | |
| shreddar | My desktops back to normal. | Aug 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | ^^Mutex | Aug 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: got logoff buttons? | Aug 02 19:46 |
| shreddar | yep | Aug 02 19:46 |
| shreddar | " user switcher applet" | Aug 02 19:46 |
| shreddar | Sometimes I feel like using KDE again | Aug 02 19:46 |
| trmanco | lol | Aug 02 19:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Martin Roth & Alex Bartlett - Off The World (Gareth Emery rmx)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~b1hke | Aug 02 19:52 | |
| trmanco | kde has better integration than Gnome | Aug 02 19:52 |
| schestowitz | because of the "k"? | Aug 02 19:53 |
| schestowitz | I use xchat (gtk) | Aug 02 19:53 |
| trmanco | no | Aug 02 19:53 |
| schestowitz | I was joking | Aug 02 19:53 |
| *RStwits (i=79d80e26@gateway/web/freenode/x-hjhnzzbzlgxxfecj) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:53 | |
| trmanco | well, I might have a lot to do with that, yes | Aug 02 19:53 |
| trmanco | but that's not all | Aug 02 19:53 |
| schestowitz | RStwits: -> 121.216.14.38 | Aug 02 19:54 |
| RStwits | scared again Roy :) | Aug 02 19:54 |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Aug 02 19:54 | |
| trmanco | I usually only like to stick with the original DE widget set | Aug 02 19:54 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 02 19:54 | |
| *shreddar_ (n=jeffrey@c-98-240-56-92.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:54 | |
| RStwits | why do i scare you so ? | Aug 02 19:54 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-hjhnzzbzlgxxfecj | Aug 02 19:54 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked RStwits from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 19:54 | |
| schestowitz | Obsessed trol | Aug 02 19:54 |
| trmanco | meh | Aug 02 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Mutex | Aug 02 19:54 |
| ThistleWeb | lol, this reminds me of whack-a-mole | Aug 02 19:54 |
| schestowitz | He's wasting time (lookups) | Aug 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | is abuse goes even months back | Aug 02 19:55 |
| ThistleWeb | he keeps popping his noggin out a new hole, only to be met with a kiss from a mallet | Aug 02 19:55 |
| *d (i=7cbbb1b9@gateway/web/freenode/x-sogunvjlrunwszwv) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:55 | |
| ThistleWeb | not timmy mallet either, although I;m not sure what would be worse | Aug 02 19:55 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-sogunvjlrunwszwv | Aug 02 19:55 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked d from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 19:55 | |
| schestowitz | 124.187.177.185 | Aug 02 19:55 |
| trmanco | lol | Aug 02 19:55 |
| trmanco | limit the channel or something | Aug 02 19:56 |
| trmanco | or put it invite only | Aug 02 19:56 |
| trmanco | for a while | Aug 02 19:56 |
| schestowitz | 124.187.177.185 resolves to | Aug 02 19:56 |
| schestowitz | "CPE-124-187-177-185.nsw.bigpond.net.au" | Aug 02 19:56 |
| schestowitz | He's just IP-hiking | Aug 02 19:56 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I can manage. He'll lose patience | Aug 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Or run of IPs | Aug 02 19:57 |
| trmanco | :-) | Aug 02 19:57 |
| shreddar_ | “Through this agreement with Yahoo!, we will create more innovation in search, better value for advertisers and real consumer choice in a market currently dominated by a single company,” -- said bizarro ballmer of bizarro microsoft | Aug 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Medical Records R Us http://www.cringely.com/2009/07/medical-records-r-us/ | Aug 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | "And it IS a problem. That’s the only part of this debate that all sides agree on. The doctors feel beleaguered and Lord knows that sick and uninsured people sure do, too. Even corporate fat cats are appalled at the explosive growth in health spending which today takes more of our GDP than any other expense category, costing approximately $2.5 TRILLION per year." | Aug 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Let's just let Microsoft manage our medical records | Aug 02 19:58 |
| schestowitz | So much easier... :-D | Aug 02 19:58 |
| shreddar_ | http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2009/jul09/07-29release.mspx | Aug 02 19:58 |
| schestowitz | There's that "innovation" word again | Aug 02 19:58 |
| *Roy_is_scared (i=7cb8a168@gateway/web/freenode/x-wkpkdelwxzrbwxvt) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:58 | |
| Roy_is_scared | Why is it Roy you are so scared of a fair debate, are you worried I will check your facts and catch you out as telling lies ? Or is it just that you cant brain wash me like you’re plebs ? | Aug 02 19:58 |
| shreddar_ | I really like the consumer choice part | Aug 02 19:58 |
| Roy_is_scared | Why is it Roy you are so scared of a fair debate, are you worried I will check your facts and catch you out as telling lies ? Or is it just that you cant brain wash me like you’re plebs ? | Aug 02 19:58 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!i=7cb8a168@*gateway/web/freenode/x-wkpkdelwxzrbwxvt | Aug 02 19:58 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Roy_is_scared from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 19:58 | |
| schestowitz | Ballmer speech recipe: "Microsoft... Google steals your data.. innovation... consumer... innovation..." | Aug 02 19:59 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Aug 02 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Mutex is preparing his line for copy and paste | Aug 02 19:59 |
| *RUN_ROY_RUN (i=7cbb9745@gateway/web/freenode/x-zpezmllysbipfsgy) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 19:59 | |
| RUN_ROY_RUN | Why is it Roy you are so scared of a fair debate, are you worried I will check your facts and catch you out as telling lies ? Or is it just that you cant brain wash me like you’re plebs ? | Aug 02 19:59 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/x-zpezmllysbipfsgy | Aug 02 19:59 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked RUN_ROY_RUN from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 19:59 | |
| schestowitz | It's like the mole that gets whacked in the middle of a sentence | Aug 02 20:00 |
| ThistleWeb | when you get bumped out almost before you can speak, you cant expect him to type that fast, so he has to | Aug 02 20:00 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/freenode/* | Aug 02 20:00 | |
| schestowitz | I'll try to block the whole of this IRC client momentarily | Aug 02 20:00 |
| shreddar_ | are these TE's the reason IRC keeps messin' up? | Aug 02 20:00 |
| schestowitz | If I used the wildcards right | Aug 02 20:00 |
| ThistleWeb | he dont seem intelegent enough to realise that any new name coming in at this time will be suspicious, even if the name dont give it away | Aug 02 20:00 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: best to ignore them | Aug 02 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They break up meaningful dialogues | Aug 02 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Like earlier... with the discussion about Comes | Aug 02 20:01 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 02 20:01 | |
| schestowitz | Fewa proposed Wiki changes and then the Mutex troll started to block the discussion | Aug 02 20:01 |
| *schestowitz hopes to remember to expire the ban on all of gateway/web/freenode. | Aug 02 20:02 | |
| schestowitz | The Register is being very dishonest | Aug 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | First they had a report about CentOS and "Dying" | Aug 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | And now this: "CentOS back from brink of death" | Aug 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | What a load of FUD/BS | Aug 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | "Brink of death" | Aug 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Cade Metz | Aug 02 20:03 |
| ThistleWeb | I dunno, the whole resurection story plays well with the religious peeps | Aug 02 20:04 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe they'll get some new customers under the belief it's the official Jesus sanctioned Linux | Aug 02 20:04 |
| ThistleWeb | what OS would Jesus run? | Aug 02 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Hold cr* | Aug 02 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Look att he AstroTurf: | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/02/centos_alive/comments/ | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | All the anti-Linux types | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | It's just like in other forums | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | The anti-Linux slog | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | "The damage is done. They're not going to attract any new users and this debacle will serve as an excellent stick with which to beat IT budget managers in order to move to something less politically unstable..." | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Like Windows???/ | Aug 02 20:05 |
| shreddar_ | I centos any good? | Aug 02 20:05 |
| ThistleWeb | centos is RH unbranded | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | "And now Google Chrome will further fragment the Linux market." | Aug 02 20:05 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a pro level distro | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | The TEs/Microsoft partners bang hard on it | Aug 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, it is | Aug 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | And there are other clones | Aug 02 20:06 |
| shreddar_ | I know people keep saying that aobut Chrome | Aug 02 20:06 |
| ThistleWeb | RH is the same thing, with RH support | Aug 02 20:06 |
| ThistleWeb | where centos is community supported, and unbranded | Aug 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | In worst case you move to an identical one like Scientific.. or pay for RHEL | Aug 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | COmpare that to OS/2 or Windows... | Aug 02 20:06 |
| shreddar_ | even though I won't likely use most of the what make GNU/Linux | Aug 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Where failure means end of line | Aug 02 20:06 |
| ThistleWeb | I think RH have some proprietary management apps to help add value to RH | Aug 02 20:07 |
| schestowitz | "Add value" | Aug 02 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Sounds Ballmery | Aug 02 20:07 |
| ThistleWeb | but appart from that centos IS RH | Aug 02 20:07 |
| ThistleWeb | you know what I mean, to encourage peeps to buy RH support, rather than go with centos | Aug 02 20:07 |
| shreddar_ | It'll be anouther Browser based OS | Aug 02 20:07 |
| shreddar_ | like GOS or cloud | Aug 02 20:07 |
| schestowitz | "Consumer... innovations... TCO.. value for the investors..." | Aug 02 20:07 |
| *shreddar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 02 20:08 | |
| schestowitz | Isn't Cloud just a gOS version? | Aug 02 20:08 |
| schestowitz | 2.0? | Aug 02 20:08 |
| shreddar_ | Am I still connected? | Aug 02 20:08 |
| shreddar_ | I said timed out | Aug 02 20:09 |
| shreddar_ | it said | Aug 02 20:09 |
| shreddar_ | Any one say yes if this text is showing up | Aug 02 20:10 |
| ThistleWeb | shreddar_: its showing | Aug 02 20:10 |
| MinceR | you didn't say "yes" :> | Aug 02 20:10 |
| shreddar_ | Ok good | Aug 02 20:10 |
| *mib_3425 (n=cheese@58.168.106.83) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 20:10 | |
| mib_3425 | I got my email back from the FTC as well, the one where I explained to him who you were Roy and why you should be ignored. I told him you’re an unemployed permanent student living off his lawyer dad’s income and in the UK and that he has no interest in US or MS businesses apart from his own personal hatred. He was amused J | Aug 02 20:11 |
| shreddar_ | Wait I meant Cloud and Webconverger | Aug 02 20:11 |
| ThistleWeb | another bump coming methinks | Aug 02 20:11 |
| mib_3425 | It's allways good to see the truth come out after all. | Aug 02 20:11 |
| shreddar_ | GOS isn't a browser OS | Aug 02 20:11 |
| mib_3425 | Isnt it roy ! | Aug 02 20:11 |
| mib_3425 | you like the truth dont you Roy ... ??? or do you. | Aug 02 20:12 |
| shreddar_ | mib_3425 are you using mibbit? | Aug 02 20:12 |
| ThistleWeb | shreddar_: thats Mutex....again | Aug 02 20:12 |
| shreddar_ | Oh | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | 58.168.106.83Results | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | 58.168.106.83 resolves to | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | "CPE-58-168-106-83.nsw.bigpond.net.au" | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Top Level Domain: "net.au" | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Country IP Address: AUSTRALIA | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | To get registration information from the Internet "Whois" database for net.au: | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Frequently Asked Questions | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Return to Main Page | Aug 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | This is a free service provided as-is without any warranty or guarantee whatsoever. So that this service is available for everyone to use, please limit lookups to less than 75 per 24 hour period. Thanks for your understanding.--- Frank | Aug 02 20:12 |
| mib_3425 | I felt you did not disclose to the FTC who you were Roy so I thought I would make sure they knew. I hpe you dont mind. | Aug 02 20:12 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@58.168.106.83 | Aug 02 20:13 | |
| ThistleWeb | determined to waste hours trying to get in to somewhere he knows h's not wanted | Aug 02 20:13 |
| *schestowitz has kicked mib_3425 from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Aug 02 20:13 | |
| *schestowitz reads Linux news | Aug 02 20:14 | |
| schestowitz | shreddar_: let me check the "cloud" thing | Aug 02 20:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.thinkgos.com/index.html Good OS - gOS and Cloud operating systems | Aug 02 20:16 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wI6Tr0Tz5U "gOS Cloud - First Hands on (Google Chrome OS?)" | Aug 02 20:16 |
| *shreddar (n=jeffrey@c-98-240-56-92.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 20:23 | |
| shreddar | http://webconverger.com/ | Aug 02 20:23 |
| schestowitz | THey have had many release in the past year | Aug 02 20:23 |
| schestowitz | *releases (about 20) | Aug 02 20:23 |
| probably using windows and only has a single depth clipboard -> schestowitz: Mutex is preparing his line for copy and paste | Aug 02 20:24 | |
| shreddar | Ofcourse Google will probably try to make it have more advanced apps not useually scene in browsers. | Aug 02 20:25 |
| shreddar | Because of Native Client and O3D | Aug 02 20:25 |
| shreddar | oh and Gears | Aug 02 20:25 |
| shreddar | and whatever else that might help move developer on to the open web | Aug 02 20:26 |
| MinceR | the "J" at the end of his line is probably a wingdings smiley | Aug 02 20:27 |
| schestowitz | http://mono-nono.com/2009/08/02/announcing-the-source-com/ | Aug 02 20:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://zip.4chan.org/tg/src/1249228975374.jpg | Aug 02 20:28 |
| schestowitz | New site: "The basic idea is to promote and discuss FLOSS, with a bit more emphasis on the Free aspect. There’s been a downright anti-Free / anti-ideals trending in the FLOSS world for quite sometime, and some of us think the Freedom aspect of FLOSS could use a little positive promotion." | Aug 02 20:28 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: lol | Aug 02 20:28 |
| shreddar | Don't they have that already? | Aug 02 20:29 |
| FSF is pretty big on freedom. | Aug 02 20:29 | |
| The more the merrier. | Aug 02 20:29 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: No! No!! Too much!!! | Aug 02 20:29 |
| schestowitz | It makes you a zelaot, a terror~1!! | Aug 02 20:29 |
| schestowitz | OMG save the children. please, think of the children | Aug 02 20:30 |
| Freedom == Terror? nice | Aug 02 20:30 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Aug 02 20:30 |
| schestowitz | That's the hope anyway... in the daemonisation battle | Aug 02 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Oppressor=good | Aug 02 20:30 |
| MinceR | not terror, TERROR~1 | Aug 02 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Freedom=bad | Aug 02 20:30 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: in newer versions of DOS it did lowercase | Aug 02 20:30 |
| shreddar | I you don't give me money the terriosts have won | Aug 02 20:30 |
| Remember the Alamo! | Aug 02 20:31 | |
| shreddar | If | Aug 02 20:31 |
| -> Santa Anna directed the Mexican Congress to authorize the army to treat any foreigners found fighting in Texas as pirates. The resolution effectively banned the taking of prisoners of war; in this time period, captured pirates were executed immediately. | Aug 02 20:31 | |
| pirates! | Aug 02 20:31 | |
| schestowitz | "Save us from the terrorists... give us freedom... here, here.... have my hands... put shackles on them... *sigh of relief* ahhhhhhhhh.. frrreeeedom" | Aug 02 20:31 |
| shreddar | I keep leaving off letter after the I for some reason | Aug 02 20:31 |
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamo | Aug 02 20:31 | |
| MinceR | i didn't know that; also, i meant the "~1" part | Aug 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: that'sa patent | Aug 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | it's a Microsoft INNOVA~1 | Aug 02 20:32 |
| MinceR | :) | Aug 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | You could be sued for it | Aug 02 20:32 |
| MinceR | MICROS~1 INNOVA~1 | Aug 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | You stole this genius idea | Aug 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Who would ever want long filenames/ | Aug 02 20:32 |
| is that really part of their lame patent? | Aug 02 20:32 | |
| I can imagine, but still... | Aug 02 20:32 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, it's really hard | Aug 02 20:32 |
| shreddar | I think I heard that too | Aug 02 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Think of how to abbreviate strings by appending a numbers... | Aug 02 20:33 |
| some compatibility is more backward than others. | Aug 02 20:33 | |
| schestowitz | THEN.. wait for it -- you have a table that tells you where to look | Aug 02 20:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] (a little) coding and debugging ... | Aug 02 20:33 | |
| *mikankun has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Aug 02 20:33 | |
| schestowitz | You know, kind of like ID numbers and DBs | Aug 02 20:33 |
| MinceR | ooh | Aug 02 20:33 |
| shreddar | MICROS~ ANTIT~ | Aug 02 20:34 |
| or remembering the block number where a file starts.... | Aug 02 20:34 | |
| schestowitz | More importantly, nobody 'stole' this INNOVA~1 | Aug 02 20:34 |
| schestowitz | It's about complying with Microsoft's cra*py design | Aug 02 20:34 |
| heaven forbid | Aug 02 20:34 | |
| schestowitz | Being able to acess files | Aug 02 20:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: that should make a decent tshirt | Aug 02 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Linux has had superior file systems | Aug 02 20:34 |
| shreddar | i did it wrong | Aug 02 20:35 |
| schestowitz | And the same goes for document format | Aug 02 20:35 |
| of course | Aug 02 20:35 | |
| schestowitz | Nobody opens .DOC to 'steal' Microsoft's ideas | Aug 02 20:35 |
| see above comment on backwards | Aug 02 20:35 | |
| schestowitz | It's about accessing data your neighbour sends you | Aug 02 20:35 |
| *desu has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Aug 02 20:35 | |
| *shreddar_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 02 20:36 | |
| shreddar | But should you pay for the privilage? | Aug 02 20:36 |
| should I have to pay someone to access my hard drive? | Aug 02 20:37 | |
| should I pay every time I read a book in a public library? | Aug 02 20:37 | |
| If these questions make you laugh, please forward $5.00 to the Free Software Foundation. | Aug 02 20:38 | |
| schestowitz | Yikes. www.howtoforge.com/ sold out to IDG | Aug 02 20:39 |
| schestowitz | They advertise with those scum, who I hear mistreat people | Aug 02 20:39 |
| shreddar | LO-- Oh | Aug 02 20:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: dude | Aug 02 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | all companies mistreat people | Aug 02 20:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | get over it | Aug 02 20:40 |
| shreddar | A assholes rape women get over it. sheeesh!!! | Aug 02 20:40 |
| shreddar | All | Aug 02 20:41 |
| schestowitz | "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the world." --Richard Stallman | Aug 02 20:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | shreddar: your english, it sucks | Aug 02 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: how many langs can you speak? | Aug 02 20:42 |
| _goblin | Diablo-D3....hmmm | Aug 02 20:43 |
| schestowitz | shreddar won, get over it | Aug 02 20:43 |
| MinceR | sheesh | Aug 02 20:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] that a great site by the way. http://bit.ly/15EYUU @brandisb | Aug 02 20:43 | |
| schestowitz | Google Chrome OS Images Leaked - Again? | Aug 02 20:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Google_Chrome_OS_Images_Leaked_-_Again/551-105049-643.html | Aug 02 20:44 |
| schestowitz | That whole 'cloud' fantasy is what might get some 'sheep' to give it a whirl | Aug 02 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: one | Aug 02 20:44 |
| schestowitz | So if you have a laptop with gOS... | Aug 02 20:44 |
| _goblin | those are the ones I linked in my article.... | Aug 02 20:44 |
| schestowitz | You save your data and all | Aug 02 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Then you move to a place without Wi-Fi and have no access to data | Aug 02 20:44 |
| schestowitz | The joy! | Aug 02 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Too many people rely on GMail and 'cloud'... pop3 is phased out in some places, I hear, just like IMAP | Aug 02 20:45 |
| _goblin | those shots look like a modified KDE DE. | Aug 02 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Aug 02 20:45 |
| _goblin | and I think the penguin is just for show.... | Aug 02 20:46 |
| trmanco | but it shouldn't | Aug 02 20:46 |
| _goblin | the other ones on my site have what appears to be a modified Xfce DE..... | Aug 02 20:46 |
| trmanco | it being xfce has more logic | Aug 02 20:46 |
| *shreddar_ (n=jeffrey@c-98-240-56-92.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 20:46 | |
| _goblin | fave DE there for me.... | Aug 02 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Adobe updates Flash and Shockwave http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1495821/adobe-updates-flash-shockwave | Aug 02 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Molbin uses xfce | Aug 02 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Funny typo there. Mole Bin. | Aug 02 20:47 |
| trmanco | :-) | Aug 02 20:48 |
| schestowitz | It stinks. Anyway, Moblin changed DE about a year ago | Aug 02 20:48 |
| email in the US is broken, you are forced to ISPs -> schestowitz: Too many people rely on GMail | Aug 02 20:48 | |
| schestowitz | Moblin also chose Ballnux for base | Aug 02 20:48 |
| shreddar_ | Ballnux | Aug 02 20:48 |
| shreddar_ | Ballnux? | Aug 02 20:48 |
| trmanco | lol | Aug 02 20:49 |
| ISPs will not let you run mail servers and "admins" have been trained to filter those who do anyway. | Aug 02 20:49 | |
| schestowitz | SUSE/Xandros | Aug 02 20:49 |
| trmanco | suse | Aug 02 20:49 |
| it is a network freedom issue that makes software freedom pointless | Aug 02 20:49 | |
| you can't run a normal mail server if your ISP blocks your ports. | Aug 02 20:49 | |
| Gmail is one of the least obnoxious options to chose from. | Aug 02 20:50 | |
| they allow imap and pop, so you can use the client you want. | Aug 02 20:50 | |
| IP v6, I'm told, will take care of some of these problems. | Aug 02 20:51 | |
| but nothing will guard against ISP malice but reasonable laws. | Aug 02 20:51 | |
| Iceland is in the news again. http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/08/02/166221/Censorship-Struggle-Underway-In-Iceland | Aug 02 20:52 | |
| shreddar_ | I did a search and apparentally it uses something that pay MS | Aug 02 20:53 |
| shreddar_ | Silverlight? | Aug 02 20:54 |
| shreddar_ | Mono? | Aug 02 20:54 |
| shreddar_ | Oh nevermind see it. | Aug 02 20:55 |
| Slashdot covers the M$'s self imposed monopoly reward farce http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/02/1724255/Microsoft-Drops-Windows-7-E-Editions | Aug 02 20:55 | |
| schestowitz | "Within 24 hours of releasing the document, WikiLeaks received a legal threat from Kaupthing's lawyers. " | Aug 02 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Life on the edge for truth seekers | Aug 02 20:55 |
| schestowitz | You see how it works? | Aug 02 20:55 |
| shreddar_ | What gets me is that W7 in the US won't have a browser ballet | Aug 02 20:56 |
| shreddar_ | ...or be interoperable with other browsers | Aug 02 20:56 |
| shreddar_ | (IE) | Aug 02 20:57 |
| MinceR | i still prefer the "ban winblows in the EU" option. | Aug 02 20:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Icelandic bank is attacking truth seekers after exposure of a scandal http://ping.fm/yWsZg | Aug 02 20:57 | |
| At least ban Windows from public institutions. | Aug 02 20:58 | |
| *shreddar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 02 20:58 | |
| It should be easy for the EU commission to put bans on new M$ purchases in place for their own offices and member states. | Aug 02 20:58 | |
| Move to ODF, etc. | Aug 02 20:59 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: /s/windows/microsoft/ | Aug 02 20:59 |
| MinceR | even better. | Aug 02 20:59 |
| sounds good to me | Aug 02 21:00 | |
| shreddar_ | There's no reason why MS can't support OOs compatible ODF when everyone else has. | Aug 02 21:00 |
| shreddar_ | Same goes for internet browsers | Aug 02 21:00 |
| EU could easily put a ban on phony standards. | Aug 02 21:01 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft was almost embargoed last year | Aug 02 21:01 |
| schestowitz | An MP proposed it | Aug 02 21:01 |
| schestowitz | For Microsoft's current crimes | Aug 02 21:01 |
| that MP needs to do it again. | Aug 02 21:01 | |
| MinceR | there's no reason why we have to allow a known monopoly abuser (repeat offender, too) sell their products. | Aug 02 21:01 |
| shreddar_ | MS was almost split-up at one point wasn't it? | Aug 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | But they have lobbies | Aug 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | And they can 'punish' the COmmission | Aug 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Scary stuff | Aug 02 21:02 |
| they will punish anyway. best to do what's right | Aug 02 21:02 | |
| schestowitz | It's like the Russian government trying to meddle with the Mafia | Aug 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | There's overlap and there's danger | Aug 02 21:02 |
| shreddar_ | They'd probably have just pulled off a AT&T then. | Aug 02 21:03 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Aug 02 21:03 | |
| schestowitz | New Novell lamer PR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwACrQ80T1Q | Aug 02 21:04 |
| *shreddar (n=jeffrey@c-98-240-56-92.hsd1.ms.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 21:09 | |
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| shreddar | I think I might be having some IRC probelems. Have no idea why. | Aug 02 21:10 |
| shreddar | But I guess I not the only one. | Aug 02 21:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Labour to put CCTV in worst 24.7 million households http://is.gd/1ZtU1 | Aug 02 21:12 | |
| shreddar | 1984 aplha stage | Aug 02 21:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im actually wondering if thats wrong | Aug 02 21:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | the homes they're putting them in are people who have serious fucking issues | Aug 02 21:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're basically imprisoning them in their own homes instead of putting them in prison | Aug 02 21:19 |
| MinceR | politicians? | Aug 02 21:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, druggies, child abuses, complete fucktards | Aug 02 21:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | ie, most of the UK | Aug 02 21:19 |
| shreddar | It's usefull | Aug 02 21:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think if the UK was nuked, the average world IQ would jump 10 points | Aug 02 21:19 |
| MinceR | i think if the human race was exterminated, it would jump even more :> | Aug 02 21:20 |
| shreddar | who will determine who the druggies and child abusers were | Aug 02 21:20 |
| _goblin | Diablo-D3 - You have probably offended at least 35% of this channel... | Aug 02 21:20 |
| MinceR | he was probably shooting for more :> | Aug 02 21:21 |
| _goblin | quite ironic since he can't hold a sentence without swearing. | Aug 02 21:21 |
| *shreddar_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 02 21:21 | |
| Diablo-D3 | _goblin: only 35%? | Aug 02 21:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have to try harder | Aug 02 21:21 |
| MinceR | see? | Aug 02 21:22 |
| _goblin | yep. | Aug 02 21:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | er, heh | Aug 02 21:22 |
| shreddar | The propper sollution is not invasion of privacy. what ever the case. | Aug 02 21:24 |
| _goblin | agreed in theory but then it's never clear cut is it? | Aug 02 21:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | well | Aug 02 21:24 |
| _goblin | should a sex offender not be monitored? | Aug 02 21:24 |
| shreddar | 24/7 survailence on your home? | Aug 02 21:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | look how fucked up child services are in the UK | Aug 02 21:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | children get taken away from good parents and they dont take them away from bad parents | Aug 02 21:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think there should be a mass exodus in the UK | Aug 02 21:25 |
| _goblin | by your behaviour I'd suggest they are pretty bad in your country too. | Aug 02 21:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | why "by my behavior" | Aug 02 21:25 |
| shreddar | 24/7 survailence on your home is not exceptible no matter who you are. | Aug 02 21:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | _goblin: I'm against 90% of the population having children | Aug 02 21:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know why? my tax payer money somewhere is paying for it | Aug 02 21:26 |
| shreddar | If your dangerous enough to be under survailence well that what prisons for | Aug 02 21:26 |
| _goblin | " 24/7 survailence on your home is not exceptible no matter who you are." - Not even convicted sex offenders who could re-offend? | Aug 02 21:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | either through federal aid or welfare or just the little fuckers end up in prison | Aug 02 21:26 |
| shreddar | Again, If your dangerous enough to be under survailence well that what prisons for. | Aug 02 21:27 |
| _goblin | shreddar: What about terrorists? If the 911 atrocity could have been avoided by an invasion of privacy would you still be against it? | Aug 02 21:27 |
| schestowitz | BTW, the link from David was satirical | Aug 02 21:27 |
| schestowitz | No-one's putting CCTVs at homes | Aug 02 21:27 |
| MinceR | won't prisons work in the terrorist case? | Aug 02 21:27 |
| shreddar | Oh | Aug 02 21:28 |
| shreddar | Well I hope goblin and Diablo were kidding | Aug 02 21:28 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: don't get him startd | Aug 02 21:28 |
| _goblin | shreddar: Sorry? | Aug 02 21:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | shreddar: about what? | Aug 02 21:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | I've been stirring shit for the past 10 minutes =P | Aug 02 21:28 |
| schestowitz | NotN means Not News | Aug 02 21:28 |
| _goblin | shreddar: What I was saying was would you be against invasion of privacy if it could prevent terrorism. | Aug 02 21:29 |
| schestowitz | It's David's site... | Aug 02 21:29 |
| _goblin | Roy: Yeah...I saw... | Aug 02 21:29 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: they should also monitor what leads to terrorism, IMHO | Aug 02 21:29 |
| schestowitz | A combination of both | Aug 02 21:29 |
| _goblin | yep | Aug 02 21:29 |
| _goblin | I think the point is, you cannot "blanket" cover the privacy issue in one statement. There are always exceptions. | Aug 02 21:30 |
| _goblin | I draw the line at invasion of privacy for commercial purposes.... | Aug 02 21:31 |
| _goblin | Phorm springs to mind..... | Aug 02 21:32 |
| schestowitz | Why can't I just play DVDs in Linux? http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26652/1231/ | Aug 02 21:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: hurr what? | Aug 02 21:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can just play dvds in linux | Aug 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: no, my point was different | Aug 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: yes | Aug 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | lib-css | Aug 02 21:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | the MPAA doesnt even bother with decss legal shit anymore | Aug 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: they need to find out what leads to resentment | Aug 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | E.g. segregations, crusades around the world, racism, etc. | Aug 02 21:35 |
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| _goblin | Roy: I was aiming that at Shredder.... | Aug 02 21:35 |
| shreddar_ | aiming what | Aug 02 21:35 |
| shreddar_ | I think IRC keeps splitting | Aug 02 21:35 |
| _goblin | the comment of " 24/7 survailence on your home is not exceptible no matter who you are" | Aug 02 21:35 |
| _goblin | to which I replied: | Aug 02 21:35 |
| _goblin | I think the point is, you cannot "blanket" cover the privacy issue in one statement. There are always exceptions. | Aug 02 21:36 |
| schestowitz | I must be doing somethign wrong.. Sound in Linux just works for me.. http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/08/sound-on-linux-is-confusing-defuzzing-part-1-alsa/ http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/08/sound-on-linux-is-confusing-defuzzing-part-2-pulseaudio/ | Aug 02 21:36 |
| _goblin | Listening to Gutsy Geeks...... | Aug 02 21:36 |
| _goblin | very good show. | Aug 02 21:36 |
| shreddar_ | Not when it comes to the privacy of your own home | Aug 02 21:36 |
| schestowitz | It's still runnin'? | Aug 02 21:36 |
| _goblin | yep | Aug 02 21:37 |
| shreddar_ | prison maybe but not your home | Aug 02 21:37 |
| schestowitz | I saw no links to them in a while | Aug 02 21:37 |
| _goblin | Shredder: My point was, would you be against 24 hour survellance on the home of a potential terrorist? | Aug 02 21:37 |
| shreddar_ | Yes | Aug 02 21:37 |
| _goblin | Sheddar: Even if it could prevent attack? | Aug 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Intel still disappoints with Linux support: http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/08/02/so-xserver-xorg-video-intel-280-still-screwed/ http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/08/intel-video-performance-in-910-alpha-3.html | Aug 02 21:38 |
| shreddar_ | Kick them out if you think their dangerous | Aug 02 21:38 |
| _goblin | not that easy...certainly here in the UK we have to work under law. | Aug 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Kick /out/? | Aug 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | How does that resolve anything? | Aug 02 21:38 |
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| schestowitz | McCarthyism\ | Aug 02 21:38 |
| MinceR | sound on linux works for me, too | Aug 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Like when Erdos was denies access the the US | Aug 02 21:38 |
| MinceR | on debian without any setup | Aug 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Cause he didn't hate COmmunism | Aug 02 21:39 |
| MinceR | and on ubuntu with my pulseaudio killer script | Aug 02 21:39 |
| _goblin | shreddar: What about covert observation on a subject to collect evidence on an active criminal? | Aug 02 21:39 |
| schestowitz | They collect evidence on Microsoft UK? | Aug 02 21:40 |
| shreddar_ | Well that I haven't thought about | Aug 02 21:40 |
| he he. Remember asking questions about Vista 7 and netbooks? | Aug 02 21:40 | |
| shreddar_ | Because I know they do that | Aug 02 21:40 |
| _goblin | Roy: Lol....don't think theres a CCTV tape long enough to record it all. | Aug 02 21:40 |
| http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10301433-64.html | Aug 02 21:40 | |
| it did not take long for that to appear | Aug 02 21:40 | |
| schestowitz | Haha | Aug 02 21:41 |
| schestowitz | So they try to make netbooks disappear | Aug 02 21:41 |
| and for it to turn up well in Google news results. | Aug 02 21:41 | |
| schestowitz | Hardly news | Aug 02 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is too fat for Netbooks | Aug 02 21:41 |
| right, more empty promises and failure | Aug 02 21:41 | |
| ultrathins for ultrafat software | Aug 02 21:41 | |
| shreddar_ | I though that was because they wanted to charge 100 | Aug 02 21:41 |
| MinceR | "i'm going to make this pencil disappear!" | Aug 02 21:41 |
| shreddar_ | $100 and it not be noticeable | Aug 02 21:42 |
| shreddar_ | Like epecially when the device it'self is 100 | Aug 02 21:42 |
| shreddar_ | $100 | Aug 02 21:43 |
| #2 pencils are a drag on my plutonium writing implement business, gotta do something about those #2 pencils. | Aug 02 21:43 | |
| shreddar_ | That's lousy anology | Aug 02 21:43 |
| thanks | Aug 02 21:43 | |
| ARM + GNU/Linux are really a drag on Intel/Winblows (toxic hardware and software), they gotta do something about those cheap computers. | Aug 02 21:44 | |
| MinceR | well, the winblows on arm offer might turn them at each other's throats. | Aug 02 21:45 |
| shreddar_ | Fundamentatlly Its the fact that people are wanting cheaper computers now. That's killing MS's high margins. | Aug 02 21:46 |
| *shreddar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 02 21:46 | |
| MinceR | ...except m$ will never be able to develop it. | Aug 02 21:46 |
| Brooke Crothers of CNet makes no mention of computers and software that meets all of the goals he mentions. | Aug 02 21:46 | |
| sad. | Aug 02 21:46 | |
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| No one should have to pay $600 for an overheating, electricity wasting, privacy violating and freedom hostile "ultrathin" that can't stay on long enough to play a movie, when they could have nice ARM or MIPS running GNU/Linux box that can and costs less than $200. | Aug 02 21:49 | |
| Wintel is completely outclassed. | Aug 02 21:50 | |
| schestowitz | Why is OOo pulling a ribbon? http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/prototyping_a_new_ui_july | Aug 02 21:50 |
| schestowitz | ARM-based computers will cost GBP89 here, I've read | Aug 02 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Thin, powerful, run the whole day, use some custom Linuxes like Ubuntu Remix | Aug 02 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Netbook Remix | Aug 02 21:52 |
| schestowitz | At that price point, Windows' assumption of a business model is dead | Aug 02 21:52 |
| shreddar_ | Netbook Reboot | Aug 02 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft knows this | Aug 02 21:52 |
| shreddar_ | Netbook Begins | Aug 02 21:52 |
| schestowitz | So it won't port WIndows to ARM | Aug 02 21:52 |
| schestowitz | For many other reasons too | Aug 02 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft will just attack ARM, e.g. with FUD | Aug 02 21:53 |
| shreddar_ | I think WinCE is on ARM | Aug 02 21:53 |
| schestowitz | shreddar_: it also boots very fast | Aug 02 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Seconds | Aug 02 21:53 |
| schestowitz | WinCE is a dinosaur | Aug 02 21:53 |
| shreddar_ | but they want High magins | Aug 02 21:53 |
| shreddar_ | margins | Aug 02 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Enjoy the 'app's | Aug 02 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Solitaire for ARM | Aug 02 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Maybe minesweeper | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | and IE6!! | Aug 02 21:54 |
| shreddar_ | Wait so was I right about WinCE bing Win95? | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Good luck on 'the Web' | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | winnt | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | a hack | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Still ancient POS | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Full of holes for sure | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Hey, maybe they can make another ugly hack off of VIsta | Aug 02 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Vistarm | Aug 02 21:55 |
| shreddar_ | WinCE 7 | Aug 02 21:55 |
| schestowitz | It'll be successful.. like Origami | Aug 02 21:55 |
| schestowitz | And Vistagami atter that | Aug 02 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Both sank like a boulder | Aug 02 21:55 |
| schestowitz | http://codeghar.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/state-of-linux/ "Things don’t always remain the same but if they are getting better, it’s a victory for all of us." | Aug 02 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Why so pessimistic? The Microsoft shills (demoralisers)? | Aug 02 21:57 |
| MinceR | there's one thing they did right about wince: elimination of drive letters. :) | Aug 02 21:57 |
| schestowitz | My worst turned best day with Fedora < http://dodoincfedora.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/my-worst-turned-best-day-with-fedora/ > | Aug 02 22:00 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: they did? | Aug 02 22:00 |
| MinceR | they did | Aug 02 22:00 |
| schestowitz | How is USB handled? | Aug 02 22:00 |
| schestowitz | No UDB? | Aug 02 22:00 |
| MinceR | well, the memory card is mounted under \Storage Card | Aug 02 22:00 |
| schestowitz | /myusbdr~1/ ? | Aug 02 22:00 |
| MinceR | afaik nt could do that too but it would make too much sense | Aug 02 22:01 |
| MinceR | and it would look too little like CP/M | Aug 02 22:01 |
| MinceR | and we can't have that | Aug 02 22:01 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Aug 02 22:01 |
| schestowitz | Showing the origins of the ripoff | Aug 02 22:01 |
| schestowitz | Didn't they hire one of Gary's guys to replicate C/PM from memory? | Aug 02 22:01 |
| MinceR | i've read that they've stolen some code from him | Aug 02 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Aug 02 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Code monkey INNOVA~1 | Aug 02 22:02 |
| MinceR | then paid him off when he threatened to reveal it | Aug 02 22:02 |
| schestowitz | They sued anyway | Aug 02 22:02 |
| schestowitz | There's still an archive | Aug 02 22:02 |
| MinceR | they took drive letters from CP/M and directories from Unix :> | Aug 02 22:02 |
| schestowitz | But people only saw Windows in many homes | Aug 02 22:02 |
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| schestowitz | So anything like Windows is a 'theft' of their ideas | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Like Firefox | Aug 02 22:03 |
| MinceR | of course | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Or a word processor where you can change fonts | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | And windows interface | Aug 02 22:03 |
| MinceR | such a novel idea | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | It is | Aug 02 22:03 |
| MinceR | and pretty much everything they stole from Xerox? :) | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft says so | Aug 02 22:03 |
| MinceR | (and the taskbar, which they apparently stole from Acorn) | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | And there's the bluster about R&D | Aug 02 22:03 |
| schestowitz | "Vista cost ... blah blah... $6bn to develop... yeah yeah...{" | Aug 02 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Apple 'stole' theirs too | Aug 02 22:04 |
| schestowitz | The DOCK!! | Aug 02 22:04 |
| schestowitz | Pirates of Silicon Valley | Aug 02 22:04 |
| MinceR | iirc the CP/M code stealing was actually done by those seattle guys gates bought QDOS from | Aug 02 22:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | guy | Aug 02 22:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | and the guy didnt steal it from anyone | Aug 02 22:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | it was a pos someone bill went to college with wrote | Aug 02 22:05 |
| schestowitz | Physics for Programmers http://matthewhelmke.net/2009/07/31/physics-for-programmers/ | Aug 02 22:05 |
| shreddar | QDOS was ripped from CP/M | Aug 02 22:06 |
| shreddar | thats what i heard | Aug 02 22:06 |
| shreddar | also CP/M from Unix | Aug 02 22:06 |
| MinceR | CP/M-86, actually | Aug 02 22:07 |
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| cubezzz | probably there was something before Unix too | Aug 02 22:09 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Hi | Aug 02 22:09 |
| MinceR | yes, MULTICS, for example :> | Aug 02 22:09 |
| MinceR | and probably ITS | Aug 02 22:09 |
| schestowitz | This guy is producing many Linux wallpapers | Aug 02 22:10 |
| schestowitz | http://my.opera.com/it-s/blog/2009/07/30/wallaper-a-day-day-2 | Aug 02 22:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: I'm sorry man, but I should agree with the comments about the post you made regarding the ACCC decommissioning of Novell. | Aug 02 22:10 |
| schestowitz | The problem we have is on of Linux being poisoned | Aug 02 22:11 |
| schestowitz | That's Microsoft WIndows aside | Aug 02 22:11 |
| schestowitz | To get rid of this illness of Linux tax it's part of the route | Aug 02 22:11 |
| cubezzz | Linux tax? | Aug 02 22:12 |
| See Novell/M$ deal for details of Linux Tax. | Aug 02 22:12 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: It's not consistent. ACCC is not decommissioning Novell because of their bad practices against Linux, or anything, as much as they basically want to place themselves between the daemon's jaws. | Aug 02 22:12 |
| cubezzz | ah, the whole reason for this channel then :) | Aug 02 22:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stefanoforenza.com/ubuntu-mono-chicken/ | Aug 02 22:13 |
| schestowitz | "I should also say Jo is a little bit disappointed by our secret plot to not talk about that, so I thought I could blog about it. | Aug 02 22:13 |
| schestowitz | The most zealous of Mono opponents seem to have a policy of pretending this doesn’t exist. Roy’s known about it for days now without mentioning it on his site. This is the only anti-Mono blog to talk about it. Essentially, there seems to be some effort to pretend it doesn’t exist, from the people who should be supporting it most." | Aug 02 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I guess downloading it makes one a "chicken" and "little" | Aug 02 22:14 |
| Vista 7 failure log is updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Aug 02 22:14 | |
| schestowitz | It's also a distraction for them to use to say, "look! There is no problem with Mono in Ubuntu default" | Aug 02 22:14 |
| schestowitz | or, "look, no-one downloads this other thing:" | Aug 02 22:14 |
| Vista 7 Hype log is updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Aug 02 22:14 | |
| cubezzz | I remember one guy telling me that if Microsoft could somehow control the internet it could completely control all PCs | Aug 02 22:14 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: correct | Aug 02 22:14 |
| cubezzz | this was around 1995 or so | Aug 02 22:15 |
| schestowitz | I didn't claim it was driven by resentment at ACCC | Aug 02 22:15 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Unfortunately, that is. | Aug 02 22:15 |
| shreddar | http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1800387&postcount=1 | Aug 02 22:15 |
| shreddar | Microsoft want a Linux tax? | Aug 02 22:16 |
| shreddar | "..." | Aug 02 22:16 |
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| M$ Linux Tax, a brief time line -> http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219107 | Aug 02 22:17 | |
| cubezzz | if people can easily download iso's of fedora and dozens of other Linuxes, that should negate the 'Linux Tax' | Aug 02 22:18 |
| schestowitz | Jason on his PC.. http://meandubuntu.wordpress.com/2009/07/31/dell-mini-and-kernel-2-6-28-14/ | Aug 02 22:19 |
| shreddar | Well I think being a distorbutor would be harder because of lisences. | Aug 02 22:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/technology-explained-how-the-internet-works/ | Aug 02 22:21 |
| cubezzz | most motherboards have a keyboard bios chip that says Microsoft (C) 1977 on it, you could call that a Microsoft Tax too | Aug 02 22:21 |
| shreddar | really? how much do OEM's pay for those? | Aug 02 22:22 |
| cubezzz | good question | Aug 02 22:23 |
| cubezzz | I got a ton of old motherboards, let me see if they all have it | Aug 02 22:25 |
| I doubt my Zaurus or my EEE PC or any of the nice MIPS netbooks have these -> keyboard bios chip that says Microsoft (C) 1977 | Aug 02 22:31 | |
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| *#boycottnovell :End of Channel Ban List | Aug 02 22:33 | |
| *#boycottnovell :End of Channel Exception List | Aug 02 22:33 | |
| http://config.fsf.org/trac/public/wiki/lemote-yeeloong.office.fsf.org | Aug 02 22:34 | |
| M$ BIOS junk and ACPI are indeed part of the M$ Tax. | Aug 02 22:36 | |
| schestowitz | Let's have some fun with Linux wins (Stories).... :-) | Aug 02 22:37 |
| shreddar_ | You start | Aug 02 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Here is goes... | Aug 02 22:38 |
| cubezzz | right, you can't see the actual chip these days, but on older motherboards you could see it | Aug 02 22:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Uses GNU/Linux to Harm its Sworn Enemy, Microsoft http://ping.fm/PaZng | Aug 02 22:39 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Runs on a Carpet Cleaner http://ping.fm/xgmIP http://ping.fm/HaCUD | Aug 02 22:40 | |
| shreddar_ | You know, I don't really see it as them TRYING to kill MS as much as them trying to advance the internet in ways that MS's business model cant stand | Aug 02 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes, selfishly too | Aug 02 22:41 |
| schestowitz | But in a way that empowers users | Aug 02 22:41 |
| schestowitz | Not necessarily advertisers and publishers | Aug 02 22:41 |
| schestowitz | But it diverts people to pages they actually want to visit | Aug 02 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Making it a powerful too that benefits many IMHO | Aug 02 22:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Details About Microsoft's Fear of GNU/Linux, as Expressed in SEC Filing http://ping.fm/XlIVO | Aug 02 22:44 | |
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| shreddar_ | MS has always been afraid of the internet replacing Windows as a platform | Aug 02 22:44 |
| shreddar_ | That's why the stoped development on IE, I think. | Aug 02 22:45 |
| shreddar_ | Even IE as a platform would comoditize Windows. | Aug 02 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | That's what I reckoned as well (re IE) | Aug 02 22:46 |
| IE is little more than a Windows Explorer. It will only take you where Bill wants you to go. | Aug 02 22:49 | |
| Splendid Isolation. | Aug 02 22:49 | |
| http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/z/zevonwarren16200/splendidisolation440641.html | Aug 02 22:51 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Report on Desktop GNU/Linux from Bob Sutor http://ping.fm/LCwoi | Aug 02 22:53 | |
| -> Michael Jackson in Disneyland | Aug 02 22:53 | |
| Don't have to share it with nobody else | Aug 02 22:53 | |
| Lock the gates, Goofy, take my hand | Aug 02 22:53 | |
| And lead me through the World of Self | Aug 02 22:53 | |
| Who needs a standards compliant browser when you have files like mspaint.exe ? | Aug 02 22:54 | |
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| trmanco | mspaint :O | Aug 02 22:58 |
| shreddar | Their Online Services Business lost 2.3 billion | Aug 02 22:58 |
| shreddar | or 2.4 billion if you round it off (which i didn't) | Aug 02 22:58 |
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| shreddar | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/02/third-parties-less-secure-win32/ | Aug 02 23:02 |
| shreddar | It looks like they're pulling a simular move to the one on Netscape | Aug 02 23:02 |
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| sebsebseb | hk | Aug 02 23:04 |
| sebsebseb | hi | Aug 02 23:04 |
| shreddar | impeding their development | Aug 02 23:04 |
| shreddar | hey | Aug 02 23:05 |
| shreddar | nevermind I guess I'm reaching to far. | Aug 02 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Aug 02 23:08 |
| schestowitz | I'm too tired | Aug 02 23:08 |
| schestowitz | I'll do some more links... | Aug 02 23:09 |
| shreddar | ok | Aug 02 23:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] History of btrfs and Introduction to Other Linux File Systems http://ping.fm/02SHS http://ping.fm/gBH8X | Aug 02 23:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Making OpenOffice.org Look Great(er) http://ping.fm/Drrkt | Aug 02 23:13 | |
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| schestowitz | brb | Aug 02 23:24 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 2 23:35:42 2009 | ||
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| cubezzz | ok, it seems that a separate keyboard controller chip is a thing of the past | Aug 02 23:14 |
| cubezzz | in the old days there was a intel 8042 chip that controlled the keyboard | Aug 02 23:15 |
| shreddar | keyboards now are put together quite differently. | Aug 02 23:16 |
| *schestowitz () has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 02 23:17 | |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Aug 02 23:35 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Aug 02 23:35 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 17:24:05 2009 | Aug 02 23:35 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Aug 02 23:35 | |
| shreddar | their like calculars now. | Aug 02 23:35 |
| shreddar | they're | Aug 02 23:35 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 02 23:36 | |
| cubezzz | I'm still trying to figure out what chip said "(C) Microsoft 1977" | Aug 02 23:37 |
| cubezzz | because I definitely remember seeing it | Aug 02 23:37 |
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| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Aug 02 23:45 | |
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| shreddar_ | Aright I'm bored now. So long. | Aug 02 23:50 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Beach attempt to break world record for bikini-clad beauties fails as 'only 42' turn up: http://is.gd/1ZCLn | Aug 02 23:56 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mandriva GNU/Linux 2010 Reaches Second Alpha http://ping.fm/81uzO | Aug 02 23:56 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @trmanco 42 not enough? | Aug 02 23:59 | |
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