IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 6th, 2009

schestowitzExcept search, although acquisitions help some pieces (E.g. Deja News)Aug 06 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Talking of which I don't seem to be able to get the daily build today....maybe its a little late....Aug 06 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] So Microsoft "admits" does it? I don't think it was a secret...we already knew...http://tinyurl.com/m2f9tw #microsoft #windows #linux #xpAug 06 00:02
_goblinGood article that one Roy (Microsoft admits that Linux desktop elephant exists)Aug 06 00:04
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Unethical Microsoft Front Group Attacks Migration from Microsoft/Novell to Google http://ping.fm/3m5BVAug 06 00:08
schestowitz_goblin: there's another one on this subject comingAug 06 00:09
schestowitzI do a burst of posts at the moment. joy..Aug 06 00:09
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Could be Delayed Due to Massive Bug — Claim http://ping.fm/w1hyBAug 06 00:30
_goblinlol....Aug 06 00:37
_goblinmassive bug?  consuming massive amounts of memory?  Sounds like Windows is working perfectly to me....Aug 06 00:38
_goblindont worry....buy it anyway...."It will be better next time....."Aug 06 00:38
schestowitzVista 8Aug 06 00:47
schestowitzOr don't use checkdisk.. for now.. more bugs are out there to be identified, sitllAug 06 00:47
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF 1.2 Gains Approval, Garners Support, Microsoft Carries on Lying http://ping.fm/CROa1Aug 06 01:01
Diablo-D3hey schestowitzAug 06 01:03
Diablo-D3http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/05/1555219/XML-Library-Flaw-mdash-Sun-Apache-GNOME-Affected?from=rssAug 06 01:03
Diablo-D3did I paste that yet?Aug 06 01:03
Diablo-D3because thats OMFGHORRIFYINGAug 06 01:03
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schestowitzDOS flawAug 06 01:28
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Xarverschestowitz: Problem, recordmydesktop crashes when I stop recording :(Aug 06 01:31
schestowitzI've never used that programAug 06 01:33
Xarverhmm know any recording programs that work well?Aug 06 01:34
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mikankunXarver: xvidcap is the best one I know ofAug 06 01:47
XarverokAug 06 01:49
Diablo-D3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4Q7xgxDJh4&fmt=22Aug 06 01:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Should be Reported to the ASA/Equivalent for “TCO”, Benchmark Frauds http://ping.fm/4MiF2Aug 06 02:03
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schestowitzgnAug 06 02:17
twitterM$ fail submission http://slashdot.org/submission/1050951/M-Blames-Linux-and-Google-for-Revenue-FailAug 06 02:28
twitterM$ Death Watch is updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/213707Aug 06 02:33
cubezzzredhat stock price is down from 2000 tooAug 06 02:39
cubezzzof course, doj didn't break up microsoftAug 06 02:40
cubezzzactivation was the last straw for me, change your motherboard then you have to re-activate...Aug 06 02:41
cubezzzno more microsoft after thatAug 06 02:42
cubezzzI was using Unix System V in the 80's and saying windows 2.0 sucked :)Aug 06 02:44
Diablo-D3cubezzz: yeah butAug 06 02:48
Diablo-D3redhat is... a meh stockAug 06 02:48
cubezzzI bought in at $10 :)Aug 06 02:49
cubezzzit went as low as $3 per share at one pointAug 06 02:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @ericasadun: Source found! It is http://despair.com/ and they sell t-shirts of the venn diagram, de-motivators and more. Cool site...Aug 06 03:22
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twitterM$FT from $58 to $20.  Google, from $100 in 2004 to $450 today.  IBM $135 to $120.  Apple $200 to $165.  Red Hat is not the best example, but they have shown solid growth since falling off their IPO euphoria (ie being broken by M$ ten years ago)  Novell never enjoyed such euphoria, unless you consider a $40 share price lofty.  Now $4.66 It is kind of sad to see how they were crushed in the mid 90s and then again in 2000. Not even tAug 06 04:00
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twitterMark Shuttleworth aligns himself with Mono and M$ ->  I enjoyed Linus Torvalds' recent interview where he talked about prejudice against Microsoft in the Linux community, and how poisonous it is. The same is true of prejudice against Ubuntu here in Debian.Aug 06 04:09
twitterThis is an unfortunate abuse of the word "prejudice."  A person would have to suspend their memory and capacity to reason to trust M$.Aug 06 04:11
twitterThe kind of judgment people use in dealing with abusers is the opposite of prejudice.Aug 06 04:11
twitterDebian has worked wonderfully and does not need to get on a Ubuntu release schedule.Aug 06 04:13
ThistleWeb"prejudice" means to pre-judgeAug 06 04:15
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ThistleWebpeeps in the debian community have had their beloved debian shunted aside and the limelight taken by ubuntu, which relies on their workAug 06 04:16
twitterI'm not sure what upstream projects have been feeding him, but as a user I have no interest in Debian's excellent release schedule.  The "it's done when it's done" and easy upgrade path is why I use Debian.Aug 06 04:16
ThistleWebsome dont like the modifications ubuntu have made to make it user firendlyAug 06 04:16
twitterI don't like those modifications but don't care.Aug 06 04:17
ThistleWebso they wont even listen to any suggestions made by mark, or ubuntuAug 06 04:17
ThistleWebthats what he means by prejudiceAug 06 04:17
ThistleWebthey pre-judge his intentionsAug 06 04:17
twitterI surely don't think badly of Ubuntu's commercial successAug 06 04:17
ThistleWebit's not an abuse of the termAug 06 04:17
twitterno, a disagreement is not a pre judgeAug 06 04:17
twitterit's just a disagreementAug 06 04:17
ThistleWebthey judge his intentions without giving him a fair hearingAug 06 04:18
ThistleWebthats what he meansAug 06 04:18
twitterI don't care about his intentions.Aug 06 04:18
ThistleWebyou just claimed he misuses the term "prejudice"Aug 06 04:18
twitterIf I wanted Ubuntu, I'd use Ubuntu.Aug 06 04:18
ThistleWebI'm explaining that it's not a misuseAug 06 04:19
twitter"prejudice against Microsoft in the Linux community" is rather clear.Aug 06 04:19
twitterand clearly a misuse of the term.Aug 06 04:19
ThistleWebI dunno, they did relase under the gplAug 06 04:20
twitterI have yet to judge Ubuntu in the same way because Shuttleworth consistently says good things about software freedom.Aug 06 04:20
ThistleWebeven if they had toAug 06 04:20
ThistleWebthe code speaks for itselfAug 06 04:20
ThistleWebeven if it was submitted with gritted teethAug 06 04:20
twitterSo, you trust M$?Aug 06 04:21
ThistleWebto reject it because it was MS, even if it met all other criteria would be wrongAug 06 04:21
ThistleWebof course notAug 06 04:21
twitterWant to run gnu/linux on top of M$?Aug 06 04:21
ThistleWebnot with code under MS termsAug 06 04:22
twitterso, I see the code speaks for itself, even for you.Aug 06 04:22
ThistleWebthe code they submitted was under the same licence as many others, the GPLAug 06 04:22
twitterand you have no use for it, neither do I.Aug 06 04:22
ThistleWebit waqsn't a MS-modified GPLAug 06 04:23
ThistleWebit was the gplAug 06 04:23
ThistleWebsame as many othersAug 06 04:23
ThistleWebwhat makes theirs different?Aug 06 04:23
twitterversion 2 has been replaced.Aug 06 04:23
ThistleWeband?Aug 06 04:23
ThistleWebwhat doe sthat have to do with anything?Aug 06 04:23
ThistleWebit's still gplAug 06 04:24
twitterif you want to protect your freedom, use gpl3Aug 06 04:24
ThistleWebhang on, didn't you ignore me?Aug 06 04:24
twitterI generally do and our conversation reminds me why.Aug 06 04:25
ThistleWebthe point is that MS submit code to scratch their itchAug 06 04:25
ThistleWebso does everyone elseAug 06 04:25
ThistleWebthey didn't try to get it in with conditionsAug 06 04:25
ThistleWebbecause they couldn'tAug 06 04:25
twitterso what?  where are you going with this?Aug 06 04:25
ThistleWebbut they didn'tAug 06 04:25
ThistleWebmy point is that to reject MS GPL code just because it came from MS is pre-judiceAug 06 04:26
ThistleWebit's still gplAug 06 04:26
ThistleWeblike any other gpl codeAug 06 04:26
twitterwhat you say is true, but I've rejected it because I have no use for their codeAug 06 04:27
twitterso your point is only to yourselfAug 06 04:27
ThistleWebthat's fine, they gpl code they've submitted has a use to to some peeps, not to all, which is the same as all foss codeAug 06 04:28
twitteryou too have rejected the code because you have no use for it.Aug 06 04:28
ThistleWebI have no use for evolution eitherAug 06 04:28
ThistleWebnot kdeAug 06 04:28
ThistleWebbut it;s all goodAug 06 04:28
ThistleWebyou can't just look at yopur narrow use and accept / reject what you useAug 06 04:29
ThistleWebpeople have every right to prejudge monoAug 06 04:29
ThistleWebthey are right toAug 06 04:29
ThistleWebbecause of all the uncertainties it entailsAug 06 04:29
twitterI doubt anyone wants to put their gnu/linux in M$'s cage.Aug 06 04:30
twitterhypervisor or monoAug 06 04:30
ThistleWebbut not their gpl hypervisor codeAug 06 04:30
ThistleWebbecause it'sgplAug 06 04:30
ThistleWebI dont doubt they hated releasing it under the GPLAug 06 04:30
ThistleWebbut they diAug 06 04:30
ThistleWebdidAug 06 04:30
twitterMy conditions for acceptance of M$ continue to be the same, complete abandonment of software patents and gpl of all their code.Aug 06 04:31
twitterThat would make M$ an honest company.Aug 06 04:31
twitterUntil then, I have no use for them.Aug 06 04:31
ThistleWebof course they're not an honest company, but they were forced to release the hypervisor code in an honest way, even if they did lie about the whyAug 06 04:31
ThistleWebso you're prejudiced against code coming from MS until the company accept your outlookAug 06 04:32
ThistleWebthat's a very correct definition of "prejudice"Aug 06 04:32
twitterno, I don't want code that's not free.Aug 06 04:32
ThistleWebit is freeAug 06 04:32
ThistleWebit's GPLAug 06 04:32
twitteryou run in circlesAug 06 04:33
fewai.e. The GPL workedAug 06 04:33
fewabut that doesn't mean the code is any goodAug 06 04:33
twitteror usefulAug 06 04:33
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ThistleWebMS released the hypervisor code under the GPLAug 06 04:33
ThistleWebwhoich make sit greeAug 06 04:33
ThistleWebfree*Aug 06 04:33
twitterI think that's the sixth time you have said the same thing.Aug 06 04:34
fewaJust because the legal liability of the GPL worked doesn't make the code they were forced to release (not out of good will) any goodAug 06 04:34
ThistleWebnothing else they released is, but that isAug 06 04:34
yuhongBTW, another use for the word "schmoozing":Aug 06 04:34
ThistleWebI know they were forced to, but they still didAug 06 04:34
yuhonghttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/27/1528201/Managers-Schedule-vs-Makers-ScheduleAug 06 04:34
fewaThistleWeb, that doesn't make the code goodAug 06 04:34
ThistleWebyes, they lied, tried to play the PR gameAug 06 04:34
fewaas many kernel hackers would say, lets see the codeAug 06 04:34
ThistleWebI never said it did make the code goodAug 06 04:34
ThistleWebjust that it was freeAug 06 04:35
twitterit is what it isAug 06 04:35
fewaas kernel hackers would not admit bad codeAug 06 04:35
twitteryou are what you areAug 06 04:35
ThistleWebit should be treated like any other free software, and judged on merritAug 06 04:35
fewaThistleWeb, no, its contrib, it dependant on non-free softwareAug 06 04:35
twitterI agreeAug 06 04:35
ThistleWebnot pre-judged because it came from MSAug 06 04:35
fewaagreedAug 06 04:35
twitterjudged because it's stupidAug 06 04:35
fewaOn merit, the APIs that are trying to add already existAug 06 04:36
ThistleWebstupid? how old are you?Aug 06 04:36
twitterhow old are you?Aug 06 04:36
cubezzzI'm 43 :)Aug 06 04:36
fewathey were put there for KVM and I do not see why MSFT needs a special API for its software, that is not the way the kernel usually does thingsAug 06 04:36
twitterprobably because M$'s other software is non free and needs a "stable" apiAug 06 04:37
ThistleWebdon't get me wrong, I'm not defending MS here, I'm responding to the claims that there's a misuse of the term prejudiceAug 06 04:37
twittersome dinky little thing that only M$ would bother to changeAug 06 04:37
ThistleWebI get where they're coming fromAug 06 04:37
fewaBut yes, the code they released, under legal liability, it not, it itsself, a bad thingsAug 06 04:38
ThistleWebI don't defend anything MS have some vague patent claim onAug 06 04:38
twitterWe all know what M$ wants.Aug 06 04:38
ThistleWebbut the gpl is the gplAug 06 04:38
fewaand it does not add legal liability to and people who use itAug 06 04:38
ThistleWebthey did release the hypervisor stuff under that licence, as much as it must have galled themAug 06 04:38
twitterThistleWeb is ThistleWebAug 06 04:38
twitterred is redAug 06 04:39
ThistleWebso why should they not be treated the same as other gpl code contributers for that codeAug 06 04:39
fewaHowever, it actually does add liability to those that use it, liability for viruses and other malware, as the MSAPI only runs on MSFT softwareAug 06 04:39
twitterbecause M$ is a convicted felon, not worthy of trust, that's why.Aug 06 04:39
twitterthat's called judgmentAug 06 04:40
ThistleWebso you're pre-judging themAug 06 04:40
twittergood judgmentAug 06 04:40
yuhongYep, but it doesn't add liability to those that don't use it.Aug 06 04:40
ThistleWebwhich is the point Linux is makingAug 06 04:40
fewayuhong, agreedAug 06 04:40
ThistleWebanythign coming from MS must be badAug 06 04:40
ThistleWebbefore you even look at itAug 06 04:40
twitterLinus liked DRMAug 06 04:40
ThistleWebit must be badAug 06 04:40
ThistleWebwhich is prejudiceAug 06 04:40
twitter***twitter ignores troll who goes in circlesAug 06 04:41
ThistleWebI thought you already did, make sure and do it right this timeAug 06 04:41
cubezzzno, that isn't true, all the early 8-bit computers used a microsoft basic rom, I can't say _that_ was badAug 06 04:41
ThistleWebwhat Linus is saying is that code should be judged on merritAug 06 04:42
fewaThistleWeb, you are trying to evangalize for nothingAug 06 04:42
ThistleWebregardless of where it comes fromAug 06 04:42
ThistleWebby determining that anything coming from MS is bad you are pre-judging themAug 06 04:42
yuhongcubezzz: See http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000845.html.Aug 06 04:42
ThistleWebeven if it's under a licence you agree withAug 06 04:42
fewaThistleWeb, but what is wrong with judging people based on the past actions?Aug 06 04:43
fewa*people and businessesAug 06 04:43
ThistleWebfewa: nothing if they tried to put stuff in under a non-gpl licnceAug 06 04:43
fewaThistleWeb, isn't that how judgement works?Aug 06 04:43
ThistleWebbut they didntAug 06 04:43
ThistleWebthey released under the gplAug 06 04:43
fewaThistleWeb, are we going to start judging people based on their future actions?Aug 06 04:43
ThistleWeblike many othersAug 06 04:43
ThistleWebno, judge on the code itself, not where it came fromAug 06 04:43
ThistleWebit's GPL ffsAug 06 04:44
fewaThistleWeb, by defending them so adamentally you are in practice, breaking your own rule of not treating MSFT the same any anyone elseAug 06 04:44
ThistleWebfewa: explain pleaseAug 06 04:44
fewaThistleWeb, you would not raise an eyelash is a Free software development firm turned down code from some other company as it was not good enoughAug 06 04:44
fewathat they might feel it hijacks their workAug 06 04:45
fewathis is all hypotheticalAug 06 04:45
ThistleWebI'm saying treat the GPL code they submit like any other GPL code from anywhere elseAug 06 04:45
cubezzzyuhong: interesting articleAug 06 04:45
fewaThistleWeb, but by making such a fuss you are treating their code differntlyAug 06 04:45
fewaThistleWeb, you are saying that is deserves attentionAug 06 04:45
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/irc-log-25072009.htmlAug 06 04:45
ThistleWebfewa: this has NOTHING to do with the quality of the codeAug 06 04:45
ThistleWebthe quality means it;s being judged on merritAug 06 04:45
fewaThistleWeb, which is based on pre-judgement that MSFT deserves attentionAug 06 04:45
yuhong"Perhaps we should bring up the issue of how MS got evil again."Aug 06 04:46
fewaThistleWeb, but are you the one to judgeAug 06 04:46
ThistleWebwhich is what Linus wantsAug 06 04:46
ThistleWebnot looking at the submitter being MS and rejecting iwithout even looking at itAug 06 04:46
cubezzzI'm totally off the microsoft platform, I don't program on it, I probably would have stuck with Amiga if Commodore survivedAug 06 04:46
ThistleWebso accept or reject their code on merrotAug 06 04:47
ThistleWebnot on who submitted itAug 06 04:47
ThistleWebthat's my pointAug 06 04:47
fewaThistleWeb, you don't seem to understand that giving someone/some business attention is a form of pre-judging, and therefore treating for you to pretend you are only treating it like any other code under the GPL is neglecting realityAug 06 04:47
ThistleWebtreat their code like any other gpl codeAug 06 04:47
fewaYou have already pre-judgedAug 06 04:47
ThistleWebok, so we should reject all gpl code?Aug 06 04:48
fewathat is a straw manAug 06 04:48
ThistleWebbecause even looking at it is pre-judging it?Aug 06 04:48
ThistleWebthats what you just saidAug 06 04:48
fewastate facts, not appeals to "equality" when equality doesn't existAug 06 04:48
ThistleWeblook at the code for the code itslefAug 06 04:48
ThistleWebnot who it came fromAug 06 04:48
fewaBecause the matter of the fact is that MSFT deserves no special attentionAug 06 04:48
ThistleWebif it's not good enough, fine, reject itAug 06 04:48
fewaAccording to your reasoning of equalityAug 06 04:49
ThistleWebbut not becuase it came from MS, but because it's not good enoughAug 06 04:49
ThistleWebthey do deserve special attentionAug 06 04:49
fewaThistleWeb, this fight is mis-placedAug 06 04:49
fewaThistleWeb, noone is infringing on MSFTs rightAug 06 04:49
ThistleWebso you inspect it even closerAug 06 04:49
fewathey have every right to fork the kernelAug 06 04:49
ThistleWebbut still judge it for the code itselfAug 06 04:49
ThistleWebnot who it came fromAug 06 04:50
fewabut to assume that others will give it attention, and must actively reject it, rather than simply ignore it if it sucks or has no promiseAug 06 04:50
fewaIs hypocracyAug 06 04:50
ThistleWebeh?Aug 06 04:50
fewaThistleWeb, i yield you your straw manAug 06 04:51
ThistleWebI'm starting to see Linus's frustration in this conversationAug 06 04:51
fewaThistleWeb, what do you think I am defending?Aug 06 04:51
fewaThistleWeb, are your pre-judging me?Aug 06 04:51
ThistleWebI'm guessing we're on crossed wires somewhereAug 06 04:52
ThistleWebmy point is simply thisAug 06 04:52
fewayou have an assumption that I am arguing for something I am notAug 06 04:52
ThistleWebMS do a LOT of harm to FOSS, they seek to destroy itAug 06 04:52
fewauntil you understand what I am saying you cannot refute meAug 06 04:52
ThistleWebbut they did (for whatever reasons) release the hypervisor under the GPLAug 06 04:53
ThistleWebwhich means the hypervisor stuff should be judged like any other gpl codeAug 06 04:53
ThistleWebif it's good, fine, if not, reject itAug 06 04:53
yuhongBTW, on the term "Vista 7", here is someone outside of BN using it:Aug 06 04:53
ThistleWebdon't look at the sender and reject itAug 06 04:54
yuhonghttp://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/77909774/m/914001330041Aug 06 04:54
fewaThistleWeb, simply because MSFT exist, doesn't give them a bigger assumption that what they do is productiveAug 06 04:54
ThistleWebjust because it came from MSAug 06 04:54
yuhong""We don't know what the Beta to Retail will require of Vista 7, so it's not a terrible deal. "Aug 06 04:54
fewaThistleWeb, your have fallen into the trap of thinking that MSFT's rights are being infringed, and we need to actively prevent infringementAug 06 04:54
fewawhich is just a straw manAug 06 04:54
ThistleWebthey have the right to be treated like any other GPL contriubter on the GPL code the contributeAug 06 04:55
ThistleWebequality means nothing if you decide some can't playAug 06 04:55
fewaThe Linux community has no obligation to treat MSFT with more attention and respect than any other newcomer to the communityAug 06 04:55
ThistleWebexactlyAug 06 04:56
ThistleWebso examine their code closelyAug 06 04:56
ThistleWebaccept or reject it on meritAug 06 04:56
fewaThistleWeb, thats unwarrented attentionAug 06 04:56
ThistleWebnot on the fact that it comes from MSAug 06 04:56
fewaanyways, your argument is goin in circlesAug 06 04:56
fewaand you completely, still, miss my pointAug 06 04:57
ThistleWebprejudice is deciding that anything from MS is bad, no matter if they do play by our licencing rulesAug 06 04:57
fewayou have been brainwashed into false ideas of equalityAug 06 04:57
fewaThistleWeb, I have not refuted thatAug 06 04:57
fewanot challenged thatAug 06 04:57
fewaYou just don't know what inequality isAug 06 04:58
ThistleWebwhichmeans that treating their GPL code any different is prejudiceAug 06 04:58
fewaThistleWeb, do you have some self-interest in Microsoft?Aug 06 04:58
ThistleWebyeah actually I doAug 06 04:58
fewaThistleWeb, no, people have the right to treat any code however they wantAug 06 04:58
ThistleWebI'll be happy when they declare bankrupcyAug 06 04:58
fewaThistleWeb, and MSFT has all the right to fork the kernel and release their own versionAug 06 04:58
fewathey also have the right to petition kernel developersAug 06 04:59
ThistleWebof course they do, it's GPLAug 06 04:59
ThistleWebthey wont find many takersAug 06 04:59
fewabut the kernel developers have no obligation to give a fuckAug 06 04:59
ThistleWebbut legally they canAug 06 04:59
fewawhich is the think you completely missAug 06 04:59
fewa/ignore ThistleWeb allAug 06 04:59
ThistleWebwhich is the point Linux is making, prejudging MS purely because it comes from MS, regardless of the fact that on this occasion they've released under our licenceAug 06 05:00
twitterM$ casts blame in latest Vista failure http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/05/windows_7_show_stopper_bug/Aug 06 05:01
ThistleWebLinus*Aug 06 05:01
twitterit's dah drivers!Aug 06 05:01
fewaIt is largely the driversAug 06 05:01
fewaWindows has a broken binary driver mode that holds back innovation and makes new compiliation incompatible with old hardwareAug 06 05:02
yuhongtwitter: "7 failure" or "Vista 7 failure", not "Vista failure".Aug 06 05:02
fewaIt also make security problems impossible to fixAug 06 05:02
yuhongI would not got hat far.Aug 06 05:02
fewaand makes hardware much slower than it could beAug 06 05:02
twittercalling it a "show stopper" is  "out of place" ha haAug 06 05:02
fewa*much slower than the drivers from open developmentAug 06 05:03
twitterit's Windows.Aug 06 05:03
fewaWindows is developed in an inferior mannerAug 06 05:03
yuhongWell, to be sure this problem will have to be debugged properly, and this is true for any OS.Aug 06 05:03
fewathat leads to an inferior productAug 06 05:04
fewaespecially on the topic of driversAug 06 05:04
fewaLinux requires no driver CDsAug 06 05:04
ThistleWebthere are no driver cds for linuxAug 06 05:05
ThistleWebso it's just as well it requiers noneAug 06 05:06
fewaLinux works with more hardware out of the box than any other OSAug 06 05:06
yuhongWell, driver CDs may be needed for backports, but once the driver is merged into mainline, eventually the need will be eliminated.Aug 06 05:06
fewayuhong, noone would use the CDAug 06 05:06
fewathey would download the latest gitAug 06 05:06
fewafrom that vendorAug 06 05:07
ThistleWebyeah, normal joe sixpack knows all about gitAug 06 05:07
fewaand in 2 commands they would have a running kernel, or a running moduleAug 06 05:07
yuhongYep, that also can be used as well.Aug 06 05:07
yuhongOr maybe just download a Linux patch from the vendor.Aug 06 05:08
fewawget http://driver/source/for/rhelAug 06 05:08
fewainstall kernel-headersAug 06 05:08
fewamake compileAug 06 05:08
fewamodproveAug 06 05:08
yuhong*Linux tarballAug 06 05:08
fewaNo restartAug 06 05:08
fewa^^^^^Aug 06 05:08
ThistleWebwell, it seems that some users here prefer hardline discrimination to pragmatic equality so I'll say goodbye at this point and take BN off my auto IRC login, keep fighting the good fight, and I;ll still stay on the RSSAug 06 05:10
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fewamehAug 06 05:11
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twitterdamage control over the 3GB memory leak in a critical sub component is in full swing. check disk utility sheesh.Aug 06 05:19
twitterIt's not a show stopper, M$ will shove it out the door ready or not.Aug 06 05:20
twitterha ha haAug 06 05:20
twitterit's like Vista all over again.Aug 06 05:20
fewaMSFT: releasing known faulty products as good since 1985Aug 06 05:21
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twitterLMAO.  "Mixed results" show that it's still slower than XP, which Ubuntu wipes. http://www.dailytech.com/Windows+7+RTM+Gets+Benchmarked+Results+Are+Mixed/article15892.htmAug 06 05:21
twitterhttp://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/05/1919259Aug 06 05:22
twitterand there's a newer one.Aug 06 05:22
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/submission/1037137/Ubuntu-with-Ext3-is-Faster-than-Windows-7-and-XPAug 06 05:24
fewaext4 is even fasterAug 06 05:25
cubezzzI have to say windows 2000 was the "best" windowsAug 06 05:33
cubezzzXP itself is a pigAug 06 05:33
cubezzzVista is just a super-pigAug 06 05:34
yuhongIt is not a show-stopper since it is not MS's fault, at least according to MS.Aug 06 05:42
yuhongAs I said to be sure this problem will have to be debugged properly, and this is true for any OS.Aug 06 05:42
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yuhongAnyway, what I want to discuss is another use for the word "schmoozing".Aug 06 05:44
yuhonghttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/07/27/1528201/Managers-Schedule-vs-Makers-ScheduleAug 06 05:44
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twitterI think this sums things up nicely.  http://slashdot.org/submission/1051033/Windows-7-Still-Slower-than-XP-and-UbuntuAug 06 05:46
twittervista failureAug 06 05:46
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Got my hands on build 3.0.198.0 of Chromium. Ive been with this since the very early builds, excellent work! #linux #chromiumAug 06 08:21
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Face on Chromium has gone! Must have been unique to .197....I should really investigate further and find out why. #linux #chromiumAug 06 08:23
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*schestowitz gets tired of Firefox memory leaks, but extensions might be to blameAug 06 08:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What a Difference a Decade Makes http://ping.fm/W0N3aAug 06 08:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "China says no to Bing..." http://tinyurl.com/mgore6 #microsoft #bing #google #linux #windowsAug 06 08:42
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #wikimedia video won't play properly in Chrome 3 cos Google can't be bothered using a non-broken decoder http://is.gd/24xoB idjits. #theoraAug 06 09:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Confirms Existence of Anti-GNU/Linux Teams http://ping.fm/nL1tCAug 06 09:16
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fewalawl i got the chomium buildAug 06 09:30
Ngschestowitz: I wish to complain about the anti-gnu/linux teams story... otters are awesome cute critters and your use of that picture is deeply unfair to otters! ;)Aug 06 09:35
schestowitzOtters are cuteAug 06 09:36
schestowitzIt's supposed to add a gentle side to the story,.. like locatsAug 06 09:36
schestowitz*lolcatzAug 06 09:36
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schestowitzI seem to be having connectivity issues with the BN server today. Other nodes reach it just fine. It's flapping.Aug 06 09:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] When Patents Are Not a Monopoly Strong Enough… http://ping.fm/7zk30Aug 06 09:51
schestowitzNewspaper Websites Pull In 70 Million Visitors In June http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/08/05/newspaper-websites-pull-in-70-million-visitors-in-juneAug 06 10:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's search as buggy as Windows: "Bing Indexing NoIndex/Nofollow Content" http://ping.fm/7zOo9Aug 06 10:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Once Again: The Music Industry Does Not Equal The CD Business http://ping.fm/GLT93Aug 06 10:07
schestowitzAmie Street Also Takes Away Features... But At Least Is Honest And Upfront About How They Hate Having To http://techdirt.com/articles/20090731/0311565725.shtmlAug 06 10:10
MinceRhttp://punditkitchen.com/2009/08/05/political-pictures-illegally-downloaded/Aug 06 10:11
schestowitzPoor ol' rich man... Berkshire Profit on Goldman Sachs Passes $2 Billion < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVCQuRSFQf1I >Aug 06 10:12
schestowitzAnd who pays for it?Aug 06 10:12
schestowitzTaxpayers (bailout).. more money from ordinary citizens to a monopolistAug 06 10:12
schestowitzMinceR: nice gearAug 06 10:14
schestowitz Technology 'priority for Britons' http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/uk/8186127.stmAug 06 10:15
schestowitz"Britons are more willing to cut back on holidays and meals out than on spending on communication technology during the recession, an Ofcom review suggests."Aug 06 10:15
schestowitzIt's not just a recessionAug 06 10:16
Ngwhat is it then? :)Aug 06 10:17
schestowitzCisco profits (nearly) cut in half < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/05/cisco_q4_2009_financials/ >Aug 06 10:17
schestowitzNg: whar the numbers sayAug 06 10:18
schestowitzThis is encouraging news: AMD beta seeks CPU-GPU harmony < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/05/amd_beta_opencl_for_cpus/ >Aug 06 10:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Police learn Tomlinson officer could face manslaughter charge < http://ping.fm/hv7Hf > Maybe a little over the line?Aug 06 10:42
schestowitzoiaohm: Australia terror suspects planned barracks suicide attack, say police http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/04/australia-barracks-terrorism-plot-suspectsAug 06 10:42
oiaohmLOL schestowitzAug 06 10:43
oiaohmBasically Australian mil messing with media.Aug 06 10:44
schestowitzWhy? To defend Web monitoring?Aug 06 10:46
oiaohmAustralian media like china found out if they want to get somewhere there is almost no way to stop them.Aug 06 10:48
oiaohmThe report you have in the UK is stuffed up.Aug 06 10:49
oiaohm4 media personal entered an australian mil base and were arrested for being terror suspects with items that could be used to plan for a suicide attack ie cameras.Aug 06 10:50
oiaohmYes lost in coversion.Aug 06 10:50
schestowitzTranslation..Aug 06 10:51
schestowitzOr broken telephone effectAug 06 10:52
schestowitzhttp://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/08/inspired-by-freedom.htmlAug 06 10:52
oiaohmBoth are englishAug 06 10:52
oiaohmSomeone miss read the austalian reports.Aug 06 10:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Netbook usability design and case studies - freescale semiconductor http://ur1.ca/8kjhAug 06 10:52
oiaohmBasically the only way to keep australian media out of somewhere they should not is jail them.Aug 06 10:53
oiaohmMaking them terror suspects added the option to hold them for 7 days without charage as a threat so they don't come back as well.Aug 06 10:54
fewaoiaohm, hmm what is wrong with freedom of the pressAug 06 10:54
fewaoiaohm, if you neglict them freedoms it will only spill over to everyoneAug 06 10:55
schestowitzSeigo moving.... http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/07/pieces-coming-together.htmlAug 06 10:55
fewamaybe they shouldn't be on a military base, but that doesn't have anything to do when them being part of the mediaAug 06 10:55
fewaIf anybody deserves the right to be somewhere and cover something, it is the mediaAug 06 10:56
oiaohmfewa you don't know our media.Aug 06 10:57
fewait doesn't matterAug 06 10:57
fewayou have to apply rules to everyoneAug 06 10:57
fewarules cannot be specific to the mediaAug 06 10:57
oiaohmKeep out signs are basically invite signs to them.Aug 06 10:57
fewaIn the united states the constitution under the first amendment gives rights to take picturesAug 06 10:58
fewaoiaohm, then give them tresspass violationsAug 06 10:58
fewabut it has nothing to do with them being part of the mediaAug 06 10:58
oiaohmTake pictures while not tresspass is legal.Aug 06 10:58
oiaohmThis case they were on the mil base taking photos.Aug 06 10:59
fewahttp://carlosmiller.com/Aug 06 10:59
oiaohmKeeping them out with secuirty guards only works so long against determed media here to find a story.Aug 06 11:00
fewahttp://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/12/photographers-anti-terror-lawsAug 06 11:00
fewathey could be doing as part of trying to get people to set rules against them in discriminatory mannersAug 06 11:00
fewaoiaohm, who are they harming?Aug 06 11:00
oiaohmPlace they were trying to get into was classifed coms fewaAug 06 11:01
fewaoiaohm, did they harm anyone?Aug 06 11:01
oiaohmGet hands on classifed coms could.  They are classifed to protect people doing operations overseas.Aug 06 11:02
fewaoiaohm, and what would you have changed to fix it? how would it help?Aug 06 11:02
oiaohmAnd with Australian media don't drop on them like a ton of bricks they will.Aug 06 11:02
fewaoiaohm, does that effect you?Aug 06 11:02
fewaoiaohm, what would happen if these got information?Aug 06 11:03
oiaohmLot of things could.  Like having who to kill to stuff up current operations.Aug 06 11:03
oiaohmAs I said classifed for good reason.Aug 06 11:04
fewaoiaohm, how do you know that?Aug 06 11:04
fewado you just trust them?Aug 06 11:04
oiaohmThe information will be declasified in 15 yearsAug 06 11:05
oiaohmIts only operational protection.  So it all will be open to auditing one day.Aug 06 11:05
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fewaI dont know about the UK, but this is what the US military does: http://killinghope.org/bblum6/overthrow.htmAug 06 11:06
oiaohmIts not like the USA classifed stuff that never sees the light of day.Aug 06 11:06
fewa*AustraliaAug 06 11:06
oiaohmNot Australian mils nature to do that.Aug 06 11:07
fewadoesn't even mention the recent Coup is HondurasAug 06 11:07
fewaand the elites call for overthrow of regime in IranAug 06 11:07
oiaohmAustralian mil normal works with locals to make peace.Aug 06 11:07
fewaThats what most Americans think about YugoslaviaAug 06 11:08
oiaohmWith the idea of leaving as soon as able.Aug 06 11:08
fewabut its not what happenedAug 06 11:08
oiaohmFor the simple reason we don't have numbers of mil to be long term stuck.Aug 06 11:08
oiaohmIraq and afagainsen have been some of australias longest off mainlane deployments.Aug 06 11:08
fewawell then pass laws that restrict aaccess to these places, that punish people who infiltriate these placesAug 06 11:09
fewabut laws cannot be targeted at mediaAug 06 11:09
fewathat is not equality under the law, and its a slippery slopeAug 06 11:09
oiaohmThere is equality under the law here.Aug 06 11:10
fewabut anyways, you know moreAug 06 11:10
oiaohmBeing media does not give any special protection.Aug 06 11:10
fewaRight to free speechAug 06 11:10
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oiaohmThere is no such things as rights under australian laws.Aug 06 11:11
fewalegallyAug 06 11:11
oiaohmEven legally.Aug 06 11:11
fewaexclusive rights to propertyAug 06 11:11
oiaohmNoAug 06 11:11
fewaits not common law?Aug 06 11:11
oiaohmexclusive rights to property only exist here to the point of critical need.Aug 06 11:12
fewabut i do admit those types of rights are quite differntAug 06 11:12
oiaohmSo it is possiable for police and others in a case of critical need to take your property and use it for the greater good.Aug 06 11:13
fewasame thing hereAug 06 11:13
oiaohmIts not really a right if there is a loop hole that voids the right.Aug 06 11:13
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fewayes it isAug 06 11:14
fewaall civil rights are only as valid as the government that grants themAug 06 11:14
fewaso there is a loop hole that if there is government overthrow you loose your rightsAug 06 11:14
oiaohmIts like freehold land here.   You don't own the minerals under it.   So a mining company can take out a claim and push you off it.Aug 06 11:14
fewayeah we have that change against common law here tooAug 06 11:15
oiaohmHere as far as property right goes is far money for what you lost.Aug 06 11:15
oiaohmYou have no real legal grounds to dispute property being taken away from you.Aug 06 11:16
oiaohmIf you get fair payment for it.Aug 06 11:16
fewaIn the US there is this irrational concept of suing peopertyAug 06 11:16
oiaohmthat also not wise here.Aug 06 11:17
oiaohmThe judges here in case of a non solvable dispute can just take the propertity sell it and split the money.Aug 06 11:17
oiaohmDispute over.Aug 06 11:17
oiaohmBasically we don't have what USA people would refer to as rights.Aug 06 11:18
oiaohmClosest thing we have to rights is anti descrimination laws.Aug 06 11:18
oiaohmThat everyone must be treated equal no matter how rich or poor they are.Aug 06 11:18
fewacivil forfeiture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_v._$124,700Aug 06 11:19
fewaoiaohm, thats a very good principalAug 06 11:19
fewaegalitarianismAug 06 11:19
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oiaohmIts far better than the USA right system fewaAug 06 11:21
oiaohmThere are not loop holes.Aug 06 11:21
fewayeah i am not decidedAug 06 11:21
fewastill a common law backgroundAug 06 11:21
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fewaUS system seems more conservativeAug 06 11:22
oiaohmanti descrimination is basically its own legal body here to see to it.Aug 06 11:22
fewabut its more neuanced than thatAug 06 11:22
fewaI see common carrier as one of the halmarks of non descriminationAug 06 11:23
oiaohmComplete job is to find cases where descrimination has been applied.Aug 06 11:23
oiaohmAnd punish those who took part.Aug 06 11:23
oiaohmIe not passive form like normal common law.Aug 06 11:23
fewaIt was a political power move for the FCC to state that telecoms are not common carriersAug 06 11:23
fewaallows them to sidestep lots of law, and instead dictateAug 06 11:24
fewaoiaohm, you can do that in the US tooAug 06 11:24
fewaits just the words used to describe it are differntAug 06 11:24
fewaamendment 14 and 15 are about "rigts" to equalityAug 06 11:25
fewabefore the civil war US didnt have such a thingAug 06 11:25
oiaohmanti descrimantion is a Ombudsman .  Not just a bit of paper somewhere.Aug 06 11:28
fewathe forced desegregation of schoolsAug 06 11:28
fewait happenedAug 06 11:28
oiaohmIe active 100 percent of the time.Aug 06 11:28
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_v._Board_of_EducationAug 06 11:28
oiaohmOmbudsmans job is to find and punish anyone taking part in descrimination.Aug 06 11:28
fewaWill here you have to have grounding to sue, so i see your distinctionAug 06 11:28
oiaohmNormal people don't have to go head to head with goverment or anyone less here with there money if they have a valid case.Aug 06 11:28
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oiaohmIts one of our biggest protections is that its active and simple.Aug 06 11:28
oiaohmCompared to doing the same thing in the USA that would require lot of resources from the people being descriminated against.Aug 06 11:29
fewaoiaohm, so is Australian law ...Aug 06 11:29
fewai cant think of qord, two sides of argumentsAug 06 11:30
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fewaso the judicial system is a large part of sociatal regulation there?Aug 06 11:31
oiaohmJudicial system is major key stone here.Aug 06 11:31
fewaI like thatAug 06 11:31
oiaohmIn the form of Ombudsman's.Aug 06 11:31
fewastrong jury and court system seems rationalAug 06 11:31
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oiaohmA Ombudsman not doing there job and proven so can be personally sued.Aug 06 11:32
oiaohmFor damages.Aug 06 11:32
oiaohmSo they take there job very seriously.Aug 06 11:32
fewamuch better than BS corporate personhood hereAug 06 11:32
oiaohmWhat is the point of rights if they are not enforced.Aug 06 11:33
fewawhere noone claims responsibilityAug 06 11:33
fewaand there is noone to hold responsibleAug 06 11:33
oiaohmWe basically see no need for having written rights while we have enforcement of the basic ideals of the law.Aug 06 11:33
fewaa system of getter equality is more important than written writes, that is trueAug 06 11:33
oiaohmThe idea of fair treament is written into most countries laws.Aug 06 11:33
fewaa means to petition the government is a productive mannerAug 06 11:34
fewathat is super importantAug 06 11:34
fewaand key to a functioning democracyAug 06 11:34
oiaohmReally you miss something.Aug 06 11:36
oiaohmOmbudsmans also exist here to inspect into goverment kick backs.Aug 06 11:36
oiaohmFrom companies.Aug 06 11:36
oiaohmI really don't know how the USA goverment system would hand that.   Were taking money in serect will get people kicked out of being part of goverment.Aug 06 11:37
fewaRalph Nader pushed through the Freedom of Information Act hereAug 06 11:37
fewait does largely that, and quite successfullyAug 06 11:38
oiaohmHad that for ages.Aug 06 11:38
fewauntil the Bush regineAug 06 11:38
fewawhich just ignored itAug 06 11:38
oiaohmFreedom of information request is a public request to see information here.Aug 06 11:38
fewahe needs to be brought to justice for authorizing tortureAug 06 11:39
oiaohmOmbudsmans are allowed to see documents that never can be released to the public.Aug 06 11:39
oiaohmWithout question.Aug 06 11:39
fewaall people can see documents hereAug 06 11:39
fewaexcept personal information, and classifiedAug 06 11:39
fewa*personal about subjects, not government actorsAug 06 11:39
oiaohmOmbudsman can see personal and classified if it could be linked to a valid case.Aug 06 11:40
fewasame hereAug 06 11:40
fewacalled a subpeonaAug 06 11:40
oiaohmNo supeona required.Aug 06 11:40
schestowitzBlack Hat Wi-Fi network hit by 154 DoS attacks < http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/08/black-hat-wifi-network-hit-by.html >Aug 06 11:40
oiaohmOmbudsman basically automatically has the supeona to look.Aug 06 11:40
fewaoiaohm, what do you mean linking to valid case however?Aug 06 11:40
fewathat is basically a subpoenaAug 06 11:41
oiaohmNote the could be.Aug 06 11:41
fewabut i do see the distinctionAug 06 11:41
oiaohmOmbudsman only has to suspect wrong doing.Aug 06 11:41
fewathe personal data part is quite limitedAug 06 11:41
oiaohmTo investiage.Aug 06 11:41
fewathats why alot of spammers use FOIAAug 06 11:41
oiaohmFreedom of information is not fast here.Aug 06 11:42
fewaIt is fast hereAug 06 11:42
oiaohmOmbudsman can tell you in 24 hours if there is anything is wrong.Aug 06 11:42
oiaohmWithout having to wait a week for Freedom of information to be processed.Aug 06 11:42
fewaWell, i do admit there needs to be people that can be held responsible for actionsAug 06 11:43
fewaof every government business dealAug 06 11:43
oiaohmOmbudsman job is purely to hold everyone responsible for there actions.Aug 06 11:43
oiaohmThey came part of our system due to large numbers of people we had breaking the law and bribing there way around it at one point.Aug 06 11:44
oiaohmIts not just goverment deals that need to be held responsible.Aug 06 11:45
fewaof courseAug 06 11:45
oiaohmThere is nothing in the USA system with the power and responsiablity of our Ombudsans.Aug 06 11:46
oiaohmThere is a lot of power given out in the USA.   The responsiablity bit is badly missing.Aug 06 11:47
fewait was designed that way from the startAug 06 11:47
oiaohmOurs had major responsiablty probems before Ombudsans came into effect.Aug 06 11:49
fewaBut still, have you been to the US?Aug 06 11:49
fewaAlso US government is vey federalAug 06 11:49
fewalots of state controlAug 06 11:49
oiaohmI still have to get there.Aug 06 11:49
oiaohmStates here almost went rogue due to illegal things going on here.Aug 06 11:50
oiaohmAt one point.Aug 06 11:50
fewaThe way things usually change around here is starting as state referrendumsAug 06 11:50
oiaohmAlso our states are larger than yours.Aug 06 11:50
fewaand then once over half it becomes federalAug 06 11:50
fewaoiaohm, how many states?Aug 06 11:50
fewaover how many people?Aug 06 11:51
oiaohm6 states total.Aug 06 11:51
oiaohmstates totalAug 06 11:51
fewaoiaohm, yours making a hastly generalizationAug 06 11:51
oiaohmLand area fewaAug 06 11:51
fewawhat about californiaAug 06 11:51
fewatexasAug 06 11:51
fewaalaskaAug 06 11:51
oiaohmalaska and western australia are close.Aug 06 11:51
fewaand what does land area how to do with governanceAug 06 11:51
fewapopulation is more important IMHOAug 06 11:53
oiaohmWe don't have many state referrendums cost of running them due to area makes them very time wasting.Aug 06 11:53
oiaohmSo normally state goverments here agree and go straight to federal referrendums.Aug 06 11:53
fewano good/cheap mail system?Aug 06 11:53
fewahmm federal referrendums are on same ballot hereAug 06 11:54
fewastates run federal electionsAug 06 11:54
oiaohmNot allowed here.Aug 06 11:54
fewaits caused alot of problems here recentlyAug 06 11:54
oiaohmSince states here still are allowed to do a referrendum to break away from country.Aug 06 11:54
fewawith diebold fraudAug 06 11:54
fewabut also federal doesn't have referrendums hereAug 06 11:55
fewaonly electionsAug 06 11:55
oiaohmto prevent voiting fraud is costly.Aug 06 11:55
fewaalso votes are state by statesAug 06 11:55
fewanot by peopleAug 06 11:55
fewaaka, more example of being quite federalAug 06 11:55
oiaohmOur votes here directly apply to seats in the federal goverment.Aug 06 11:55
fewabut there is a move to switch presidential votes to popular voteAug 06 11:55
oiaohmSeats are layed out on population numbers.Aug 06 11:56
fewathis is the difference between party representation and geographical representationAug 06 11:56
oiaohmSo states don't have equal number of seats.Aug 06 11:56
fewaI like the partimentary system alotAug 06 11:56
fewaseems betterAug 06 11:56
fewaalso your instant runoff ballto systemAug 06 11:56
fewalike the only place that has that here is San FranciscoAug 06 11:57
oiaohmand every vote in the seat edges move to keep numbers in seats close to equal.Aug 06 11:57
oiaohmIt gets even funnier at times particular people cannot run in the seat they always did because since the line moved they no longer live in that seat so cannot run for it.Aug 06 11:58
fewahmmAug 06 11:58
fewaThe Democrat and Republican parties do alot of anti-competitive stuff hereAug 06 11:58
fewaquite descructive to democracyAug 06 11:58
oiaohmWe only have one major problem here.Aug 06 11:59
oiaohmPreferinal voting.Aug 06 11:59
fewahere in Washington they crushed our representative primary voting systemAug 06 11:59
fewaand replaced it with fake spectator democracyAug 06 11:59
fewawhere its the parties that have all the powerAug 06 11:59
fewanot the people, or the canidatesAug 06 11:59
oiaohmWe get independants into goverment a bit.Aug 06 11:59
fewa(but this only applies to party-based seats)Aug 06 12:00
oiaohmBut its really hard for them.  Since they have to win by a large margin.Aug 06 12:00
fewaThe party system here is very corrupting to the democratic systemAug 06 12:00
fewafor example even if a presidential canidate gets on the ballots on enought states to make it possible to winAug 06 12:00
oiaohmSince our major parties agree to give preferenal votes to the other parties over the independants.Aug 06 12:00
fewa(quite an achievement)Aug 06 12:00
fewathen they still can't get into the debatesAug 06 12:00
oiaohmThe way it works sux.Aug 06 12:00
fewabecause the dabates are run by the Demo + Rep partiesAug 06 12:01
fewaand they excluse everyone elseAug 06 12:01
fewathey even got local police forces to remove Ralph Nader, a third party canidate, from the place of the debates when he had a valid ticket for itAug 06 12:01
fewaIt makes a mockery of democracyAug 06 12:02
oiaohmLets say we have 3 running.   1 has 45 precent a independant.   1 has 30 percent party 1 and the other has 25 part 2.  Since parties 2 gave preference to party 1  And since they are the lowest they get removed and there votes get transfered to party 1Aug 06 12:02
oiaohmSo the indepenant loses.Aug 06 12:02
fewawhat?Aug 06 12:02
fewagot a link on the descriptionAug 06 12:03
fewaI though the voter sets the instant runoffAug 06 12:03
oiaohmThat is our voting system.Aug 06 12:03
fewanot the candidatesAug 06 12:03
fewaI like a unlimited instant runoff voteAug 06 12:03
fewaorder as many canidates as you wish in your order of preferenceAug 06 12:03
oiaohmThe candidates here get to set simple voting.Aug 06 12:03
fewathats wierdAug 06 12:03
fewabut i dont really undestand it, so cant really judge itAug 06 12:04
oiaohmIe you place 1 in there box and they get to see your preference for you.Aug 06 12:04
oiaohmIf you number each box you get to set your own preferences.Aug 06 12:04
oiaohmYes evil.Aug 06 12:04
fewahmm its so alienAug 06 12:04
oiaohmHuman nature to be lazy.Aug 06 12:04
fewacause here everything in same boxAug 06 12:04
fewano parlimentAug 06 12:04
fewavery differn'tAug 06 12:04
oiaohmAnd its problem causing.Aug 06 12:05
oiaohmIts the one major problem our goverment system has.Aug 06 12:05
oiaohmThat the person coming secound can get in just because person coming first did not get over 50 percent is kind bad.Aug 06 12:05
fewahere there is alot of mail-in-only votingAug 06 12:06
fewain other words, if the US "spreads democracy" it will not really be democracy, but a spectator sportAug 06 12:07
oiaohmAlso here unlike the USA everyone has to vote.Aug 06 12:08
fewafelon voter disenfranchisement is wierdAug 06 12:08
oiaohmFailure to do so is a fine first year.  secound year 2 days in jail.Aug 06 12:08
fewaoh wutAug 06 12:08
fewai dont support thatAug 06 12:08
fewaYou cant force someone to voteAug 06 12:08
fewajust make it easyAug 06 12:08
fewaand freeAug 06 12:08
oiaohmIf you turn up and rip up the vote paper you have done what is required.Aug 06 12:09
fewahow many do that?Aug 06 12:09
oiaohmSome times a lot.Aug 06 12:09
fewathought so :PAug 06 12:09
fewadoes it count as a none of the above vote?Aug 06 12:09
oiaohmWithout out it there were cases of zero votes for a complete seat.Aug 06 12:10
fewaholy shitAug 06 12:10
oiaohmWhat caused major problems.Aug 06 12:10
fewayour turnout is woorseAug 06 12:10
fewai thought US had a problemAug 06 12:10
oiaohmWithout fines Australians basically would not turn up to vote.Aug 06 12:10
oiaohmLittle bit of nice ness the day you have to vote becomes a public holiday.Aug 06 12:11
fewaEU vote turnout is so over the placeAug 06 12:12
oiaohmHow far do you have to travel to vote.Aug 06 12:12
fewai vote by mailAug 06 12:12
oiaohmSome of our seats here have 50 to 100 kms to voting location.Aug 06 12:12
fewait costs 41c, which i think should be changedAug 06 12:12
oiaohmMail voting is not prefered here.  Simple reason we have had cases of postal vote fraud in past.Aug 06 12:13
fewai dont doubt itAug 06 12:13
fewavoting is a mess hereAug 06 12:13
fewaDiablo(tm) voting systemsAug 06 12:13
oiaohmI know the idea of forced votes sounds bad at first.Aug 06 12:14
fewawhere the CEO announced publically his support of GWBAug 06 12:14
fewain a very suggestive wayAug 06 12:14
oiaohmIt also means our poll stations only have to be open for 1 day.Aug 06 12:14
fewaCOmputerized voting with no paper trailAug 06 12:14
oiaohmI think the usa has them open for a week or something stupid.Aug 06 12:14
fewaand congress forcing out systems that actually workAug 06 12:14
oiaohmWe have no computeriesed voting.Aug 06 12:15
fewait was horribleAug 06 12:15
fewaoiaohm, no in the US its only one dayAug 06 12:15
oiaohmDo you have a day off work?Aug 06 12:15
fewa tuesday after the first mondayAug 06 12:15
fewanoAug 06 12:15
fewabut should beAug 06 12:15
fewai think some states doAug 06 12:15
oiaohmHere is off work.Aug 06 12:15
fewaand businesses doAug 06 12:15
fewatuesday after the first monday in novemberAug 06 12:15
fewaone dayAug 06 12:15
fewaalot of fraud here tooAug 06 12:16
oiaohmOk this gets more warped.Aug 06 12:16
fewaunderstaffing polling stations in porr communitiesAug 06 12:16
fewaso that they have to wait hoursAug 06 12:16
oiaohmOut going goverment here gets the day here.Aug 06 12:16
fewawhile the rich areas only takes 10 minutesAug 06 12:16
oiaohmOf the vote for seats.Aug 06 12:16
fewaThey should change the law where citizens can vote in other areasAug 06 12:17
fewato force these things not to happenAug 06 12:17
oiaohmunderstaffing polling stations would have Ombudsman up you tail here so bad you would not dare do it.Aug 06 12:17
fewaIts one of the great american disenfranchisementsAug 06 12:17
fewaonly second to poll taxesAug 06 12:18
oiaohmDefault we can vote at any polling station.Aug 06 12:18
fewaused to prevent the blacks in the south from votingAug 06 12:18
oiaohmWhat are poll taxes.Aug 06 12:18
fewaafter the civil warAug 06 12:18
oiaohmYou don't mean you have to pay to vote.Aug 06 12:18
fewaforcing people to pay to voteAug 06 12:18
oiaohmIf that was done here no one would vote.Aug 06 12:18
fewaand discriminatorallyAug 06 12:18
fewaonly to black peopleAug 06 12:19
oiaohmIts kind our nature.Aug 06 12:19
fewait was a sad dayAug 06 12:19
oiaohmYou guys have major problomes.Aug 06 12:19
fewathe US had to pass a constitutional amendment and bring in the military to abolish itAug 06 12:19
fewaSlavery was a big problemAug 06 12:19
fewabut ive only heard about thisAug 06 12:19
oiaohmWe had slavery here for a while too.Aug 06 12:20
fewaas i live in the westAug 06 12:20
fewaThe forced desegregationAug 06 12:20
oiaohmBefore our system got Ombudsman's and slavery forbin.Aug 06 12:20
fewathey had to have guards for each black studentAug 06 12:20
fewato prevent them from being killed and beat upAug 06 12:20
oiaohmI guess you heard of the rum rebionion in australia.Aug 06 12:20
fewano, but there was prohibition is the USAug 06 12:21
oiaohmThe problem was people were being paid in rum instead of cash.Aug 06 12:21
fewaa nation wide ban on alcoholAug 06 12:21
oiaohmYou require cash to buy land.Aug 06 12:21
fewaoiaohm, the United States is very diverseAug 06 12:21
oiaohmAustralia is fairly diverse.Aug 06 12:22
oiaohmJust with lots of spaces.Aug 06 12:22
fewawe got that tooAug 06 12:22
fewaive seen it in the USAug 06 12:22
fewathey call it the great plainsAug 06 12:22
fewause to be heards of buffaloAug 06 12:22
oiaohmYours are normally living great spaces.Aug 06 12:23
fewanow its cowsAug 06 12:23
oiaohmNot like our deserts.Aug 06 12:23
oiaohmGet stuck out there you are basically stuffedAug 06 12:23
fewaand antelopeAug 06 12:23
fewaoiaohm, we got that tooAug 06 12:23
fewathe whole state of Navada is like thatAug 06 12:23
oiaohmMost of our population is also conserated on the east sea board.Aug 06 12:24
oiaohmLike over 70 percent of it.Aug 06 12:24
fewawe have two seaboardsAug 06 12:24
fewaand the easy is very wideAug 06 12:24
oiaohmOther seaboard boards basically have no one on them.Aug 06 12:25
fewabut ive not really been thereAug 06 12:25
oiaohmBasically most of australia has no one in it.Aug 06 12:25
fewabig culture difference between west and eastAug 06 12:25
oiaohmsame here.Aug 06 12:25
fewaand of course culture in central, + alaska, + hawaiiAug 06 12:25
oiaohmperth is about the only highlight on the west.Aug 06 12:25
oiaohmThere are no other major citys on the west sea board.Aug 06 12:26
oiaohmNote the west sea board also has the largest state.Aug 06 12:26
oiaohmIe 1 state for the complete thing.Aug 06 12:27
oiaohmwhere the east is 3 states.Aug 06 12:27
fewaie alaskaAug 06 12:27
oiaohmReason why I said alaska and our west are basically the same.Aug 06 12:27
fewawhat about your aborigines there?Aug 06 12:27
oiaohmExcept alaska is cold and west is god darn hot.Aug 06 12:28
fewayeahAug 06 12:28
fewa:PAug 06 12:28
fewaclimate of west prob more like navadaAug 06 12:28
fewaand southern californiaAug 06 12:28
oiaohmWhat would be your windest.Aug 06 12:28
fewain the plainsAug 06 12:29
oiaohmIt has the rorring 40's wind hitting it too.Aug 06 12:29
fewaoklahomaAug 06 12:29
oiaohmBasically put all three together and you have the west here.Aug 06 12:29
fewaNevada dessert wasnt too windy when i was thereAug 06 12:29
oiaohmaborigines here we are still having problems getting there communities working.Aug 06 12:30
oiaohmThey so like living out in the middle of no where.Aug 06 12:30
fewawhat is their legal situationAug 06 12:30
oiaohmEqualsAug 06 12:30
fewalegal situation here is a messAug 06 12:31
fewasame in CanadaAug 06 12:31
oiaohmThey do have land rights as well where they can claim particular sites of importance.Aug 06 12:31
fewathey are all US, (or canadian) citizens, but there is alot of additonal politicsAug 06 12:31
fewaFor example they have their own national health systemAug 06 12:32
oiaohmCurrently our biggest problem is getting medical and education to them.Aug 06 12:32
fewasingle-payerAug 06 12:32
oiaohmAnd I do mean getting medical and education to them.Aug 06 12:32
fewaThey probably get better health care coverage than non-indians here, if they want itAug 06 12:32
oiaohmNot really.Aug 06 12:32
fewaas US healthcare is such a messAug 06 12:32
fewathe elites here have tried to defraud all the veterns from their entitlement to healthcareAug 06 12:33
oiaohmOk here due to how far they live away from normal here they have 10 to 20 years less live span than the adverage for our aborigines.Aug 06 12:33
oiaohmThen take for thousands of years they had nothing like beer.   So when they get drunk they get badly drunk.Aug 06 12:34
fewaDiffernt cultures tooAug 06 12:34
fewahere the natives have huge problems with alcoholismAug 06 12:34
fewawell ok, same thingAug 06 12:35
oiaohmIts not exacly the same thing.Aug 06 12:35
oiaohmProblem with getting drunk here for them is the suger.Aug 06 12:35
oiaohmThey are not genically use to that as well.Aug 06 12:35
fewabut alcohol isn't that goodAug 06 12:36
oiaohmWhen I say badly drunk I mean almost dead.Aug 06 12:36
fewathats dessert societyAug 06 12:36
fewamakes a differnt compositionAug 06 12:36
oiaohmBasically you don't help them drown there sorrows if you want them alive the next day.Aug 06 12:37
fewain addition to lack of metobolism of alcohol like we have hereAug 06 12:37
oiaohm1 or 2 bottles and some of them here turn volient as well.Aug 06 12:38
fewaalcohol is poisonAug 06 12:38
oiaohmDue to slow metobolism and very little resistance to alcohol.Aug 06 12:38
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fewaits just that many westerners have some immunityAug 06 12:38
oiaohmNew zealanders have way more than westernersAug 06 12:39
Ngalcohol dehydrogenase \o/Aug 06 12:40
fewaall those debtors :PAug 06 12:40
schestowitzRed Bull give ya wings!Aug 06 12:41
schestowitzbanned in Europe nowAug 06 12:42
schestowitzThose kids partying all night tillt he heart attackAug 06 12:42
fewacaffeine drinks do need some sort of regulationAug 06 12:42
Ngit's only banned in france right now afair?Aug 06 12:42
Ngoh some of germany tooAug 06 12:42
Ngwoah and denmark. epic nannyismAug 06 12:43
fewabanning is a bit extremeAug 06 12:44
fewaand doesnt make much senseAug 06 12:44
NgindeedAug 06 12:44
Ngwe have a growing market for "energy" drinks in the UK atm, there are a variety of brands that sell them in all shapes and sizes and strengthsAug 06 12:45
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fewathat originated in the USAug 06 12:53
fewaYOu havnt seen how big they get hereAug 06 12:54
schestowitzGartner spread FOSS FUD, as usual, Asay feeds them along with other FOSS-hostile ones like Forrester that Microsoft paid to attack Linux: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10303566-16.htmlAug 06 12:54
schestowitzI've just made Firefox nearly redundant for browsing. I'll brose with gekco in Thunderbird insteadAug 06 12:55
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/Microsoft-acknowledges-competition-from-Canonical-and-Red-Hat--/news/113935 (Microsoft acknowledges competition from Canonical and Red Hat)Aug 06 12:55
schestowitzA Late X Server 1.7 Means No Update For Ubuntu 9.10 < http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzQzNA >Aug 06 13:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Thanks to a tip from @kabatology , I have just moved to ThunderBrowse as my primary Web browser (Konq and FF are secondary).Aug 06 13:05
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Aug 06 13:08
schestowitzGoogle Launches A Major Offensive Against Microsoft With “Going Google” http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/08/02/google-launches-a-major-offensive-against-microsoft-with-going-google/Aug 06 13:38
schestowitzShanghai bans heavy polluting vehicles from downtown http://mobile.shanghaiist.com/2009/08/03/shanghai_bans_heavy_polluting_vehic.phpAug 06 13:40
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schestowitzEC Survey: Third Of Young People Won’t Pay For Online Content < http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-ec-survey-third-of-young-people-wont-pay-for-online-content/ > That's fine!Aug 06 13:50
schestowitzTwitter's downAug 06 13:55
schestowitzhttp://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=linux_s_user_interface_puts_ms_windows_t&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 "|[ctrl][alt][numlock] doesn't seem to work on my KDE 4.3 / Debian Sid setup. Is it an XOrg thing? A DE thing (which DE)?Yes the Windows desktop is not a fun place to be."Aug 06 13:57
MinceRisn't there an xorg.conf (or *.fdi) setting to enable that?Aug 06 13:58
schestowitzMinceR: doesn't work in KDE 3.5.10 hereAug 06 14:00
schestowitzkde 4.3 is here :) quick gentoo (upgrade) guide < http://www.linuxized.com/2009/08/kde-4-3-is-here-quick-gentoo-upgrade-guide/ >Aug 06 14:00
schestowitzLGP is looking for C/C++ developers for porting games to Linux  < http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2586 >Aug 06 14:02
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schestowitzbblAug 06 14:07
fewaBritish Lawmaker David Davis Challenges US Threats to Suppress Evidence of CIA Torture http://www.democracynow.org/2009/8/5/british_lawmaker_david_davis_challenges_usAug 06 14:11
oiaohmMy current kde is part way between kde 3.5 and 4.2Aug 06 14:37
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fewawhat do you mean?Aug 06 15:03
fewathe core system is completely rewrittenAug 06 15:03
MinceRyou can probably mix and match apps thoughAug 06 15:07
oiaohmITs heavy mixed and matched.Aug 06 15:08
oiaohmI still have kde 3.5 doing lot of wm work.  But support things like clock and network  controls are from 4.2Aug 06 15:09
oiaohmBasically there is not enough left of kde 3.5 to be just 3.5 any more and there is not enough kde 4.2 to be 4.2Aug 06 15:10
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Balroghttp://advice.cio.com/shane_oneill/bing_search_tainted_by_pro_microsoft_resultsAug 06 15:16
Balroghttp://search.slashdot.org/story/09/08/06/1334225/Bing-Search-Tainted-By-Pro-Microsoft-ResultsAug 06 15:16
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thenixedreporthttp://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/08/walking-kid-home.htmlAug 06 15:36
twitterha ha, look how safe RFID tagged passports make you http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/08/fed-rfid/Aug 06 15:41
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Balrog_twitter is being ddos'edAug 06 15:53
twitterall is clear in TacomaAug 06 15:53
twitterpeople seem to like benchmarks showing that Vista 7 is slower than XP and that Ubuntu slaps them both  http://slashdot.org/submission/1051033/Windows-7-Still-Slower-than-XP-and-UbuntuAug 06 15:56
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Omar87HiAug 06 15:57
twitterWith benchmarks like that, M$ is stuck talking about "look and feel"Aug 06 15:57
twitterbut it's hard to see what kind of good feeling a slow, buggy system will yeild.Aug 06 15:57
MinceRthe feeling of desire of something that sucks less.Aug 06 15:57
Omar87I was chatting in Chris Pirillo's channel at the Wyldryde network.Aug 06 15:57
fewathats what happens you insert huge DRM scemes into your products, making them less usefull and performingAug 06 15:58
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MinceRand "look and feel" is not something m$ should be proud of anyway :>Aug 06 15:58
Omar87Tried to start a polite argument about M$ begging iPhone devs to save her child.Aug 06 15:58
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twitterdigital restrictions are designed to impedeAug 06 15:58
Omar87But I was kicked immediately by the bots. :)Aug 06 15:58
twitterthey must hate "M$" charactersAug 06 15:59
twitterI like watching Chris Pirillo explode over VistaAug 06 15:59
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twitterM$ people like to call free software advocates, "zealots," but only windows is annoying enough to raise passions like that.Aug 06 16:00
fewaif you have passions about Linux, you cn use them to change itAug 06 16:01
fewaor any free software for that mannerAug 06 16:01
twitterhttp://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215115Aug 06 16:01
Omar87twitter: I didn't really write it "M$", I actually wrote the full name.Aug 06 16:02
twitterhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqalHbrttV0&feature=relatedAug 06 16:02
twitterthen your kick must have been manualAug 06 16:02
twitteroh yes, here it is.  The big Chris Vista rant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2JJZMhFaG0Aug 06 16:03
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Omar87twitter: But then take a look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYIfyDENTIY&feature=channelAug 06 16:07
Omar87twitter: This guy's totall retard.. :)Aug 06 16:07
Omar87twitter: correction--> This guy's a total retard.. :)Aug 06 16:08
Omar87twitter: a month after a BSOD came and kicked him in the ***, he came back yapping: "It's not Vista's problem. It's your 'junky hardware' that is the problem."Aug 06 16:11
Omar87twitter: I'm just wondering how much did Ballmer pay him for these words.Aug 06 16:12
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schestowitzBalrog: any link about the twitter status?Aug 06 16:18
schestowitz> * BNc has quit ("malformed JSON string, neither array, object, number, string or atom, at character offset 0 (before "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLI...")Aug 06 16:19
schestowitz"Oh my God. They killed twitfolk. You b*stards"Aug 06 16:19
schestowitz> <twitter> M$ people like to call free software advocates, "zealots"Aug 06 16:22
schestowitzYou could call people who push you to using Windows "Zealots"Aug 06 16:22
schestowitzZealots should have nothing to do with what's done more commonlyAug 06 16:23
schestowitzw.youtube.com/watch?v=yX8yrOAjfKM&NR=1Aug 06 16:24
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schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8186822.stm ( Lenovo makes third straight loss ) Lenovo is close to Microsoft, so this if good newsAug 06 16:41
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schestowitzGlobal banking collapse fails to dent broadband < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/06/ofcom_market/ >Aug 06 16:43
schestowitzHi, _Hicham_ Aug 06 16:43
_Hicham_hi schestowitzAug 06 16:43
schestowitzTwitter is up and down today (I hear it's DDOS) and also been sued http://ping.fm/43m5XAug 06 16:43
schestowitzBrit diplomats' mission to expose Scientology's 'diploma mill' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/06/scientology_diplomat_probe/Aug 06 16:47
XarverGuys I want to make a screencast on programming probably what should it be aboutAug 06 16:48
_Hicham_Xarver : about Aspect Oriented ProgrammingAug 06 16:48
XarverAspect?Aug 06 16:48
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schestowitzObject?Aug 06 16:49
schestowitzAOP?Aug 06 16:49
XarverI only know of functional and objectAug 06 16:50
schestowitzCVS vs Git vs SVNAug 06 16:50
XarverHeheAug 06 16:50
XarverI know nothing about them though :PAug 06 16:50
schestowitzECT is troilling Wals? http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/67776.htmlAug 06 16:52
schestowitz*trolling WalesAug 06 16:52
XarverSo any screencast ideasAug 06 16:59
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thenixedreportHey Roy.Aug 06 17:03
thenixedreportDid you get my e-mail?Aug 06 17:03
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Balrogschestowitz: it's slowly coming back upAug 06 17:09
BalrogFacebook is also acting up, btwAug 06 17:09
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schestowitzthenixedreport: let me chrckAug 06 17:14
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Palm-Pre-and-My-Tether/?kc=rss (Palm fires back at Apple as Pre debuts on Amazon)Aug 06 17:14
schestowitzBalrog: makes me feel better to find other victims of DDoS. It's a real nightmareAug 06 17:15
schestowitzthenixedreport: yes, sounds goodAug 06 17:15
schestowitzCan you say more about it?Aug 06 17:15
schestowitzI wouldn't ever try to fork the FS or use another nameAug 06 17:16
schestowitzLook what the OSS people did... RMS was right.. they just confusedAug 06 17:16
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Omar87HiAug 06 17:20
Omar87So what about that Bloatnux thing?Aug 06 17:20
schestowitzHave you installed it?Aug 06 17:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard: what's with all the WP FUD? http://bit.ly/fKEgdAug 06 17:20
Omar87NopeAug 06 17:20
Omar87Haven't even downloaded it yet.Aug 06 17:21
schestowitzthenixedreport: yes, that's RMS...Aug 06 17:21
schestowitzIt might be worth airingAug 06 17:21
Omar87So what about it?Aug 06 17:21
schestowitzIf the idea is to establish another name and spread it by all sorts of mean, it would probably be damaging like a forkAug 06 17:22
schestowitzOmar87: like it says in the post, it's filled with monoAug 06 17:22
Omar87It's real?Aug 06 17:22
schestowitzYes, go get itAug 06 17:23
schestowitzYou can run it as a live CD tooAug 06 17:23
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Omar87And why would I wanna use something filled with Mono? :)Aug 06 17:23
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1496436/internet-advertising-continues-fall (Internet advertising continues to fall )Aug 06 17:24
schestowitzOmar87: it's a statement against Mono advocatesAug 06 17:25
schestowitzImplying mono opposers are ill paranoidAug 06 17:25
schestowitzThis one shows Mono is bloat and risky (SueMe Linux)Aug 06 17:25
Balrogschestowitz: we don't know much about what's going onAug 06 17:25
Balrogother then some people are trying to bring those sites down (twitter appears to be down again)Aug 06 17:25
schestowitzDid Twitter do something?Aug 06 17:26
schestowitzLike allow people to annoy China?Aug 06 17:26
BalrogTwitter doesn't actively prevent people from annoying ChinaAug 06 17:27
schestowitzWas there a controversy?Aug 06 17:27
schestowitzThe one I can think of is IranAug 06 17:27
Balrogapparently notAug 06 17:28
schestowitzThere was an article this morning in the MSBBCAug 06 17:28
Balrogas I said, facebook is acting up tooAug 06 17:28
schestowitzThe founder of Twitter said that the downtime or whatever was not caused by orders from the US governmentAug 06 17:28
schestowitzHe dismissed some rumoursAug 06 17:28
Balrog//that/ downtimeAug 06 17:28
schestowitzFacebook acting up? Good!Aug 06 17:28
schestowitzis.gd!Aug 06 17:28
Balrogthis downtime is by ddosAug 06 17:28
Balrogthis downtime is by ddosAug 06 17:28
Balrogerr sorryAug 06 17:29
Balrog...why good?Aug 06 17:29
schestowitzI know, I'm semi-joking, BUTAug 06 17:29
schestowitzIn a way, more DDOS will raise awareness of WIndows botnetsAug 06 17:29
Balrogtrue.Aug 06 17:29
schestowitzPeople will say enough and kick more Wintendo boxes off networksAug 06 17:29
schestowitzOur DNS servers are messed up by themAug 06 17:29
schestowitzI'm using opendns at the moment cause of thatAug 06 17:29
BalrogI hear.Aug 06 17:30
Balrog:\Aug 06 17:30
schestowitzthenixedreport: if we were to set up a pro-ethics movement, then what...?Aug 06 17:32
schestowitzI find that many issues won't dabble in FS unless they have a good understanding of /why/Aug 06 17:32
schestowitzThey think of power (Firefox), not ethicsAug 06 17:32
schestowitzI learned that people are educated to misunderstand freedom and associate it with fake choice and other things, and not by accident.Aug 06 17:33
schestowitzEFF deals with rights, not freedomAug 06 17:34
schestowitzBut then there's FSF, which revolves around GNU system and GPL for developersAug 06 17:34
schestowitzRMS is also increasingly interested in broader political issuesAug 06 17:34
schestowitzPatent systems are among them.Aug 06 17:34
Omar87~"It will have to be 2010 before the economic news starts to get better, just in time for the world to end in 2012. µ "~ Huh?Aug 06 17:36
schestowitzOmar87: where from?Aug 06 17:37
Omar87I personally don't believe that 2012 will be the end of the world.Aug 06 17:37
schestowitzOmar87: there's that 2012 stupidityAug 06 17:37
Omar87http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1496436/internet-advertising-continues-fallAug 06 17:37
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=2012+apocalypse&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8Aug 06 17:37
schestowitzOmar87: INQ is humourous, so maybe it was intended as a joke about the apocalypse nutteryAug 06 17:38
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thenixedreportGuess which distro I'm going to try next?Aug 06 17:44
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 17:44
thenixedreportCentOS?Aug 06 17:45
thenixedreportAgain.Aug 06 17:45
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 17:45
thenixedreportI bought an extra machine.Aug 06 17:45
XarverHave you tried Mandriva?Aug 06 17:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft blames open source for revenue fall: http://u.nu/5trrAug 06 17:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft slammed over Bing's sponsored online drug ads: http://u.nu/2urrAug 06 17:52
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schestowitzcentos on a desktop?Aug 06 17:53
schestowitzCaitlyn tried.Aug 06 17:53
thenixedreportOn a netbook, yes...Aug 06 17:53
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 17:53
thenixedreportI think I'll try it on the netbook I just purchased (when it arrives sometime next week).Aug 06 17:54
thenixedreportI read her column.Aug 06 17:54
thenixedreportThere is a problem.Aug 06 17:54
schestowitzWhy don't you try bloatnux?Aug 06 17:54
thenixedreportHer recommendation against the distribution is based on a very small issue.Aug 06 17:54
schestowitzIt's the latest BN distroAug 06 17:54
schestowitzSueMe was Slax based and Shane doesn't maintain it anymoreAug 06 17:54
XarverSo any screencast ideas?Aug 06 17:54
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 17:54
schestowitzXarver: kde 4.3, definitelyAug 06 17:55
schestowitzWe ought to have promotional videos of it. You could manually install it from repos/sourceAug 06 17:55
XarverMandriva 2009.1 doesn't have kde 4.3 :(Aug 06 17:55
thenixedreportAny enterprise environment worth anything would test any security updates before applying them anyway.Aug 06 17:55
XarverNah I'd rather wait 'till November for 2010Aug 06 17:56
schestowitzXarver: you can build it for MandruvaAug 06 17:56
thenixedreportBesides which, even workstations have (or should anyway) limited access to the Internet to protect from vulnerabilities.Aug 06 17:56
schestowitzOr check the cooker people.Aug 06 17:56
thenixedreportAt least, that's what a smart IT crew would do.Aug 06 17:56
Xarverschestowitz: did you do it?Aug 06 17:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 'Kill IE6' campaign gains force; 30M Web users get switch pitch: http://is.gd/25cjxAug 06 17:56
thenixedreportSo the whole thing over a Firefox update not being applied asap is really a red herring as far as I'm concerned.Aug 06 17:56
Xarver>.>Aug 06 18:00
schestowitzthenixedreport: I'm sort of trying to avoid Firefox now for most thingsAug 06 18:00
schestowitzI use ThunderBrowseAug 06 18:00
thenixedreport?Aug 06 18:01
schestowitzFirefox is needed for sites with cookies and FlashAug 06 18:01
thenixedreportThunderBrowse?Aug 06 18:01
schestowitzYeahAug 06 18:01
schestowitzFOund out about it in the afternoonAug 06 18:01
schestowitzI do everything in my mail client and kate nowAug 06 18:01
thenixedreportWow.Aug 06 18:01
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:01
thenixedreportAnd an irc client...Aug 06 18:02
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:02
schestowitzNot reallyAug 06 18:04
schestowitzxchatAug 06 18:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A Late X Server 1.7 Means No Update For Ubuntu 9.10: http://is.gd/25cBhAug 06 18:04
schestowitzI also use Konqueror for stuffAug 06 18:04
schestowitzMy relationship with Firefox went bad because extensions seem to cause conflicts, so it can mess up and take over 1GB of RAM (and slow down before I notice)Aug 06 18:04
thenixedreportUnderstood.Aug 06 18:05
schestowitztrmanco: as we all know, all that Linux is.. is Ubuntu /sarcasmAug 06 18:05
thenixedreportI'm waiting for a webkit-based browser to rise up.Aug 06 18:05
schestowitzChromeAug 06 18:05
thenixedreportNot necessarily.Aug 06 18:05
thenixedreportThere are other projects.Aug 06 18:05
thenixedreportI would rather they succeed before Chrome does.Aug 06 18:05
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:06
schestowitzthenixedreport: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10303762-92.htmlAug 06 18:06
schestowitzWatch itAug 06 18:06
schestowitzThere's another oneAug 06 18:06
thenixedreportYeah, and?Aug 06 18:06
schestowitzhttp://blog.lynxworks.eu/20090802/replacing-firefox/Aug 06 18:06
schestowitzAAroraAug 06 18:06
schestowitzGive it a shotAug 06 18:06
schestowitzAroraAug 06 18:07
thenixedreportI've used it.Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreportIt's fast!Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreportVery fast.Aug 06 18:07
schestowitzThere's the one with a long nameAug 06 18:07
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:07
schestowitzNot sure it's maintainedAug 06 18:07
schestowitzSomething like kanbaulatrsddk3@#Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreportThere's also Midori.Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreportThough they need to speed it up a little bit.Aug 06 18:07
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Twitter hit by denial of service attack (CNN): http://is.gd/25cZY #ddos #dosAug 06 18:07
thenixedreportI don't care about skinning a web browser.Aug 06 18:07
schestowitzI'm trying to escape some plugin bloatAug 06 18:08
schestowitzMore is not always betterAug 06 18:08
schestowitzClutter...Aug 06 18:08
schestowitzWeight...Aug 06 18:08
schestowitzSpywareAug 06 18:08
thenixedreportCould that be anti-sec that's trying to take down Twitter?Aug 06 18:08
schestowitzLike Alexa, Netcraft, Compete...Aug 06 18:08
schestowitzOT Yikes,. No wonder it smells like plastic here. My stove burned a cereal box :-oAug 06 18:10
thenixedreportlolAug 06 18:11
thenixedreportCentOS is installing rather quickly.Aug 06 18:11
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 18:11
thenixedreportWoot!Aug 06 18:11
fewa5?Aug 06 18:12
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MinceR192813 < schestowitz> There's the one with a long nameAug 06 18:12
MinceRKazehakase?Aug 06 18:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @stroughtonsmith: "Apple Rejecting All e-Book App Store Submissions?" http://tinyurl.com/noc8ph (truncated)Aug 06 18:13
trmancohttp://news.cnet.com/8301-27076_3-10302768-248.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=WebwareAug 06 18:13
trmancois this actually new?Aug 06 18:13
trmancoI can't remember what service they were going to shut down a few days agoAug 06 18:14
fewaMSFT has been shutting down failed projects foreverAug 06 18:14
fewaIts had so many latelyAug 06 18:14
trmancoto manyAug 06 18:14
trmancothat I can't even keep track ofAug 06 18:14
fewaand they all look the sameAug 06 18:14
fewathats why it doesn't matter, and don't care if that individual one is newAug 06 18:14
trmancohopefully they will shut down their IM serviceAug 06 18:14
trmancoand then hotmailAug 06 18:15
fewathey wont do thatAug 06 18:15
trmancoor live mail or msn mais or whateverAug 06 18:15
fewathey may start taxing itAug 06 18:15
trmancomail*Aug 06 18:15
schestowitzMinceR: that's the oneAug 06 18:15
fewatrying to squeeze money out of usersAug 06 18:15
schestowitzI think it was longerAug 06 18:15
schestowitzGecko basedAug 06 18:15
trmancoomgAug 06 18:15
fewa*wringing itAug 06 18:16
trmancolook at thisAug 06 18:16
MinceRiirc it could be compiled with WebKit tooAug 06 18:16
MinceRi never managed to do so thoughAug 06 18:16
trmancoHi, Tony Manco.Aug 06 18:16
trmancoMicrosoft News (MicrosoftFix) is now following your tweets on Twitter.Aug 06 18:16
fewaThats why people should have their own names, names they ownAug 06 18:16
trmanco"# Bio News about Microsoft. (Not Affiliated with Microsoft Corp)"Aug 06 18:16
trmancoah, I feel more comfortable nowAug 06 18:17
schestowitztrmanco: he did this with another FOSS companyAug 06 18:17
trmancoit's probably a bot that searches for certain keywords and then follows the posterAug 06 18:17
taconeyum. linuxoutlaws compares samsung with the first iphoneAug 06 18:17
schestowitzSee BN on "MicrosoftFix"Aug 06 18:17
schestowitzGoblin and others wrote about itAug 06 18:18
taconewith nice resultsAug 06 18:18
fewatrmanco, it looks fairly sane http://twitter.com/MicrosoftFixAug 06 18:18
schestowitztacone: Samsung = ms patent racketAug 06 18:18
fewaaka Microsoft Admits Fear of Linux - PC World http://tinyurl.com/nrpx8q #MicrosoftAug 06 18:18
fewaMicrosoft Admits That Linux Desktop Elephant Exists - ChannelWeb http://tinyurl.com/n3kkxb #MicrosoftAug 06 18:18
taconethe android samsungAug 06 18:19
schestowitzStillAug 06 18:19
taconems patent racket = pretty much anyoneAug 06 18:19
zoobab01http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/sc34/Aug 06 18:19
zoobab01Microsoft organising the SC34 meeting of ISO for OOXML maintenanceAug 06 18:20
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schestowitzzoobab01: who pays for dinner?Aug 06 18:21
schestowitzGeorg Greve: http://identi.ca/notice/7301023 "Microsoft planning to freeze ODF at "broken useless" level by blocking updates at ISO? Seems quite possible..."Aug 06 18:22
fewaschestowitz, see how it archives the target linkAug 06 18:24
fewathats something done with foresightAug 06 18:24
schestowitzUS CTOAug 06 18:25
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/169637/obamas_cto_gets_warm_welcome_in_silicon_valley.htmlAug 06 18:25
schestowitz""I'm a big fan of open collaboration, not specifically open source," he said. "I have no problem with people buying Microsoft and Oracle, but the challenge is the dollars spent on top of that afterwards, the custom development." Various departments create custom software modules and don't share them with other departments, he said. "So we're trying to create a way of sharing intellectual property.""Aug 06 18:25
schestowitzintellectual what:?Aug 06 18:25
fewajunkAug 06 18:26
schestowitzfewa: the ISO one?Aug 06 18:26
fewaits political stagingAug 06 18:26
fewathat quoteAug 06 18:26
fewayou erect the straw man of describing a non-rival good as property, and then you professing about sharing itAug 06 18:27
fewawhen sharing is the whole pointAug 06 18:27
fewait the classic opressive gameAug 06 18:27
fewatake away someones rights, and then sell them back piecemealAug 06 18:27
schestowitz"Open"...Aug 06 18:28
schestowitzWell, Microsoft JasonM has just redefined it againAug 06 18:28
schestowitzTo be symbiotic with RANDAug 06 18:28
schestowitzGlyn wrote about iAug 06 18:28
schestowitz*itAug 06 18:28
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XarverAny screencast ideas? :PAug 06 18:38
schestowitzWhat is this junk...? http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=54074Aug 06 18:40
schestowitzXarver: screencast about screencasts about screencasts.....Aug 06 18:41
XarverO.oAug 06 18:41
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jlundstocholm/status/3166988159Aug 06 18:44
trmancohttp://news.cnet.com/8301-19518_3-10304823-238.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20Aug 06 18:44
trmanco:oAug 06 18:44
schestowitzLund is a Microsoft shillAug 06 18:45
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schestowitzSupported Features http://xkcd.com/619/Aug 06 18:59
MinceRthat comic failsAug 06 19:00
XarverI love xkcdAug 06 19:00
MinceRask adobe about fixing trash, don't expect random kernel patches to do so.Aug 06 19:00
MinceRgenerally i love it tooAug 06 19:00
MinceRbut this strip fails hard.Aug 06 19:00
MinceRif he were to argue that the linux kernel is incapable of supporting smooth full-screen video playback, he should take a look at mplayer, vlc and xine.Aug 06 19:01
MinceR(also, with compiz i can zoom on a flash video arbitrarily in real-time and it remains as "smooth" as it was in its original size.)Aug 06 19:01
XarverMy favorite:http://xkcd.com/303/Aug 06 19:01
Xarverhttp://xkcd.com/303/Aug 06 19:01
MinceR:)Aug 06 19:01
MinceRalso, i'd check if swfdec can do what the whine is about.Aug 06 19:02
Xarvermandriva one comes with all the stuff I needAug 06 19:03
schestowitzAlmostAug 06 19:04
schestowitzPCLOS has moreAug 06 19:04
schestowitzIf you get Kaffine in Mandriva, then you have codecs tooAug 06 19:04
schestowitzXarver: yes, 303 is funnyAug 06 19:04
Xarver:DAug 06 19:04
Xarvertwitter is SLOW todayAug 06 19:05
schestowitzXarver: it's under DDoSAug 06 19:05
schestowitz<trmanco> http://news.cnet.com/8301-19518_3-10304823-238.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20Aug 06 19:05
schestowitzBlame Windows zombiesAug 06 19:05
Xarver:PAug 06 19:06
trmancoyeahAug 06 19:07
schestowitzComplaint mode: http://www.workswithu.com/2009/08/05/rethinking-ubuntus-update-policyor-not/Aug 06 19:07
schestowitzNice pic: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/08/hands-on-kde-43-delivers-a-social-desktop.arsAug 06 19:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] On the Ethical and Education Value of GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/Cmq11Aug 06 19:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Instability to Learn as a Windows Trap and Perceived 'Problem' in GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/B3I7xAug 06 19:23
twitterno zombies here!Aug 06 19:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Air Navigation Now Done with GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/73THwAug 06 19:28
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twitterhe he, "this has fail written all over it" http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/08/is_murdochs_plan_to_charge_for_online_news_doomed.phpAug 06 19:32
schestowitzIt isAug 06 19:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Children Receive GNU/Linux Desktops in Large Numbers http://ping.fm/d6s9sAug 06 19:36
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment 4.3 Review http://ping.fm/ZeuDgAug 06 19:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Twitter crashes for ninety minutes, nerds traumatised http://is.gd/2590JAug 06 19:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz more space-filling than malice. Study didn't say what NewScientist claimed, news sites don't care. SNAFU. #wikipediaAug 06 19:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @wikileaks New Zealand censors force business paper to remove Vodafone story http://bit.ly/2ZneI - please forwardAug 06 20:00
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Future Motorola Phones Are Running Linux, Coming Soon http://ping.fm/WYRt2Aug 06 20:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO is Dying, Sale Blocked http://ping.fm/ztG2uAug 06 20:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Bribed-for Vista 7 'Coverage', as Explained by John C. Dvorak http://ping.fm/JOdfuAug 06 20:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft is Escaping Tax Again http://ping.fm/PoWg6Aug 06 21:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I have done tech support to normal people. This is gold: The Over-The-Phone Interface Test http://bit.ly/w9FVnAug 06 21:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Love real ale, hate this sort of thing... RT @scissorkicks CAMRA need to end this shit NOW. http://twitgoo.com/230joAug 06 21:11
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schestowitzthenixedreport: I'm listening to http://tllts.org/dl.php , but in the latest episode they are all over the placeAug 06 21:23
schestowitzNo signal (valuable info) so far..Aug 06 21:23
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Collapse board. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/12621.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/526395.htmlAug 06 21:40
schestowitzpopey: you're mentioned in min3: http://linuxoutlaws.com/podcast/ogg/105Aug 06 21:42
popeythanks schestowitzAug 06 21:42
thenixedreportListen for their guests.Aug 06 21:43
thenixedreportIt's more like having a conversation than a show.Aug 06 21:43
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 21:43
schestowitzthenixedreport: yeahAug 06 21:44
schestowitzWell, I got a little boredAug 06 21:44
thenixedreport:)Aug 06 21:45
schestowitzI do like the show, but it's 2.5 hours longAug 06 21:50
schestowitzNot compressed enough, so more drossAug 06 21:50
trmancohttp://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-09-047/Aug 06 22:02
trmancohttp://www.zerodayinitiative.com/advisories/ZDI-09-048/Aug 06 22:02
schestowitzhttp://img40.yfrog.com/i/jkp.png/Aug 06 22:08
schestowitzThe OOXML trolls keep chatting about BNAug 06 22:08
schestowitzIncluding Microsoft employees...Aug 06 22:08
schestowitzI'll carry on ignoring them, BUT... I have a post about themAug 06 22:08
trmancoiBone?Aug 06 22:09
MinceRjesusPhone?Aug 06 22:10
schestowitzStoneAug 06 22:10
trmancoiTrollAug 06 22:11
MinceRnah, Stone is proven technologyAug 06 22:11
MinceRand it does everything the jesusPhone does, except for the touchscreen.Aug 06 22:11
trmancoit's damaging technologyAug 06 22:11
schestowitzStone+touchscreen: http://www.modmyi.com/forums/attachments/native-iphone-ipod-touch-app-discussion/108771d1224045646-feature-comparison-between-stone-iphone-stone.jpgAug 06 22:11
schestowitzOK, I'll do some new posts. Lots today...Aug 06 22:12
thenixedreporthttp://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=23Aug 06 22:14
thenixedreportSo after August 15, the CentOS team may accept donations again.Aug 06 22:14
Xarverwhy not accept donationsAug 06 22:14
thenixedreportThey want an accounting of the money donated.Aug 06 22:15
thenixedreportRemember, the domain name and the funds was controlled by one person who almost dropped off the face of the earth.Aug 06 22:15
Xarver:PAug 06 22:15
Xarveraccounting?Aug 06 22:15
thenixedreportIn other words, they probably want to be able to tell everyone where the donated money went.Aug 06 22:16
thenixedreportWhether it be hosting costs, purchased hardware, etc........Aug 06 22:16
thenixedreportObviously if it turns out the thing was building and building and was left there, it won't take long.Aug 06 22:17
thenixedreportbrbAug 06 22:17
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_goblinhello all...Aug 06 22:36
XarverhiAug 06 22:36
_goblinrains really heavy here.....Aug 06 22:36
Xarversunny hereAug 06 22:37
schestowitzHey, _goblin Aug 06 22:38
schestowitzI've just listened to the OutlawsAug 06 22:38
schestowitzYour Linux InlawsAug 06 22:39
schestowitzWere you one among the 40 who listened live?Aug 06 22:39
schestowitzBad Day for Twitter: Attack from Microsoft Windows Zombies, Texas Lawsuit Over Software Patents http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/06/techradium-and-ddos-vs-twitter/Aug 06 22:39
_goblinyepAug 06 22:39
_goblinI think it was ep 104...Aug 06 22:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Darryl (who comments on my blog) suggests that "kids giving away Linux" is anti-competitive! here: http://tinyurl.com/kvkufp #microsoftAug 06 22:40
_goblinIve got a cracking comment posted on my blog, check this:Aug 06 22:40
_goblinQoute Darryl "And its not like the FOSS kids dont also give away product for free to gain market share. Their whole model is based on anti-competative tactics, like bait and switch, and price fixing. If FOSS linux were ever to create a product of value and gain some market share, it would stand a strong risk of coming under the FTC’s eyes itself for it’s questionable buiness methods."Aug 06 22:41
_goblinl "And its not like the FOSS kids dont also give away product for free to gain market share. Their whole model is based on anti-competative tactics, like bait and switch, and price fixing. If FOSS linux were ever to create a product of value and gain some market share, it would stand a strong risk of coming under the FTC’s eyes itself for it’s questionable buiness methods."Aug 06 22:41
_goblinsorry....Aug 06 22:41
_goblinmis paste...Aug 06 22:41
_goblinSo kids giving away disks is bad (according to Darryl)...I suppose it is for those working in Redmond.Aug 06 22:42
_goblinI am sure the FTC will come down hard on those pesky kids advocating Linux.Aug 06 22:43
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MinceRonly if it's paid enough.Aug 06 22:45
_goblinDarryl has to be a joke poster surely?Aug 06 22:45
trmancoreal "hackers" don't use shit systems -> http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10302236-245.htmlAug 06 22:47
trmancoand they usually like to keep off the radar too...Aug 06 22:47
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_goblingood article....Aug 06 22:48
_goblinIt reminds me of the "scene" parties of the early 90's.....Aug 06 22:49
_goblinyou never gave the location of the real ones.Aug 06 22:49
schestowitz_goblin: 105Aug 06 22:50
_goblinno havent caught it yet...Aug 06 22:50
_goblinI dont think...Aug 06 22:51
_goblinI think it was 104 I listened to live.Aug 06 22:51
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trmanco...Aug 06 22:57
oiaohmhttp://www.osnews.com/story/21962/Office_2010_To_Get_File_Format_Ballot  << Great even worse.Aug 06 22:58
oiaohmMS seams to be out to avoid the EU regulators.Aug 06 23:00
ThistleWeboiaohm: so you can pick from a working MS format, or a (supposedly working) broken odfAug 06 23:00
oiaohmMS is being forced to come into line with odf 1.2 as well.Aug 06 23:02
oiaohmBut the issue is that is mandoray if its done the wrong way you could have produced document hell in a business.Aug 06 23:02
ThistleWebmaybe they've finally, reluctantly seen the writing on the wall, that the EU are gonna keep hammering them on case after case, with fine after fineAug 06 23:03
oiaohmOr maybe they are running out of money to resist.Aug 06 23:03
ThistleWebthat they're now reluctantly trying to placate the EUAug 06 23:04
ThistleWebindeedyAug 06 23:04
ThistleWebeach new fine, is anther chunk of cashAug 06 23:04
ThistleWebthey know they've only had to deal with the EU wrath on a tiny fraction of their practises / crimes, that there's a whole book load of charges they could face yetAug 06 23:05
oiaohmYep the EU system has only really been testing the waters again MS.Aug 06 23:06
_goblinmaybe the fines could pay for our hosting the Olympics?Aug 06 23:08
oiaohmMost likely could but would also basically kill MS _goblinAug 06 23:08
ThistleWebyeah, I wish the UK had left the bids for that to other countries who want to waste tax payers moneyAug 06 23:08
_goblinI bet the other countries our laughing their heads off now....Aug 06 23:09
_goblinmiddle of recession and we have to foot the bill.Aug 06 23:09
ThistleWebthe UK has NEVER been able to turn an event into a legacyAug 06 23:09
ThistleWebyet it's used as a reason to bid EVERY timeAug 06 23:09
_goblinand turn it into a farse.Aug 06 23:09
oiaohmReally Australia had the most spreed out Olympics ever.Aug 06 23:09
ThistleWebwe'll buuild new infrastructure, new stadia, new roads etc that will let us help generations of atheletes etcAug 06 23:10
oiaohmDifferent sports were in different capitial citys.Aug 06 23:10
ThistleWebit's all PR bullshitAug 06 23:10
_goblinthistleweb: yep just like the dome.Aug 06 23:10
oiaohmSo lot of infrastructure updates that were needed were done when we did our OlympicsAug 06 23:10
ThistleWebOz has a good sporting base thoughAug 06 23:10
oiaohmMost were over due updates.Aug 06 23:10
_goblinand if theres any benefits to the UK, it will only be London that gets them...to hell with the rest of the countryAug 06 23:10
oiaohmWith the size of UK you could have done what australa did more simply.Aug 06 23:11
ThistleWebso any world sports event held in Austrailia can only be good, they already have a legacy in place, and new investment will add richness to thatAug 06 23:11
oiaohmDistace between venues here was bigger than the lenth of the UK.Aug 06 23:12
ThistleWebthe Aussies know how to turn that investment into a long term gainAug 06 23:12
oiaohmAnd it worked.Aug 06 23:12
ThistleWebthe Brits have NEVER managed thatAug 06 23:12
ThistleWebnot onceAug 06 23:12
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/06/msft-avoidance-of-a-gpl-lawsuit/ Sun’s Chief Open Source Officer: Microsoft’s Linux Code Apparently About Avoidance of a GPL LawsuitAug 06 23:12
_goblinThistleweb: true......very true.Aug 06 23:12
oiaohmAir companies did great in the OlympicsAug 06 23:12
ThistleWebyet we still throws billions away for that 2 weeks int he world spotlightAug 06 23:12
schestowitzTwitter is in the s*itter todayAug 06 23:12
oiaohmWith the australian setup.Aug 06 23:12
oiaohmIt coverd some of the costs.Aug 06 23:13
_goblinlolAug 06 23:13
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Currently reading “Getting past first base…” @forakerdesign - http://bit.ly/x9TLEAug 06 23:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sun’s Chief Open Source Officer: Microsoft’s Linux Code Apparently About Avoidance of a GPL Lawsuit http://ping.fm/22CYiAug 06 23:13
ThistleWebif we had all the bases covered, with NHS funding, school funding etc and had money left over.....fine, give tax rebatesAug 06 23:13
ThistleWebwe have plenty of REAL needs for that money, all screaming for cashAug 06 23:13
_goblinThistleweb: Could not agree more....so many places need investment.Aug 06 23:13
_goblinEspecially in the north.Aug 06 23:14
ThistleWebyet a prestige event is the chosen way to spend / waste that moneyAug 06 23:14
oiaohmHow are your sporting locations _goblinAug 06 23:14
ThistleWeball over the countryAug 06 23:14
ThistleWebevery area has it's own priorities for spendingAug 06 23:14
oiaohmI guess like it was here in need of replacements almost everywhere.Aug 06 23:14
_goblinoiaohm: I don't really know....the real cost of this though is the policing.Aug 06 23:15
ThistleWebwhen so little investment is done over too long, it comes down to EVERYTHING needs cash NOWAug 06 23:15
ThistleWebour rail network is a jokeAug 06 23:15
ThistleWebit's largely VictorianAug 06 23:15
oiaohmWe have it simpler there too there are very few ways into AustraliaAug 06 23:15
_goblinbut as long as certain UK locations look good for a few weeks, to hell with everyone else in the UK.Aug 06 23:15
ThistleWebwe have high speed trains but they can't get those speeds because the tracks can't copeAug 06 23:15
oiaohmMajor cost for ours in policing was getting our SAS upto speed with in modern city combat if it was required.Aug 06 23:16
oiaohmThat include runs threw the cities.Aug 06 23:17
oiaohmTo locate good placement locations.Aug 06 23:17
_goblintheres also the issue of cleaning...........Nottinghill is two days at a fraction of the attendance expected for the Olympics....Aug 06 23:17
ThistleWebthats what happens when you allow trians to run for profit, they only spend the absolute minimum to help boost profits, so the infrastructure gets minimal repairs, not overhaulingAug 06 23:17
oiaohmCleaning here was sold to a recycling firm.Aug 06 23:17
ThistleWebmajor events do create temp jobsAug 06 23:17
_goblinWe can't even get people out of London quickly on new years eve.Aug 06 23:17
ThistleWebthey bring in touristsAug 06 23:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme 20 Tips on How to Write for the Web | Webdesigner Depot http://bit.ly/VJVyAAug 06 23:18
_goblinand it will be London that reaps those rewards.....Aug 06 23:18
ThistleWebbut the lavish spending on the bidding, then preparing for it with private contractors creaming most of the money is a jokeAug 06 23:18
oiaohmLot of the roads in sidney were restricted to bus only for the and more buses put on.Aug 06 23:18
ThistleWebapparently that area of London is badly in need of upgradesAug 06 23:18
_goblinwhilst places in the north go to rack and ruin, hidden from the eyes of the camera in favor of the image of a prosperous UK.Aug 06 23:19
oiaohmFor the ollipmics.Aug 06 23:19
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_goblinI sound like George.Aug 06 23:19
oiaohmThe effect did increase the speed people could be moved by about 400 percent.Aug 06 23:19
ThistleWebthe footie world cup is a prefect exampleAug 06 23:19
oiaohmCars are highly ineffective.Aug 06 23:19
_goblinah...footie...different matter...Aug 06 23:19
_goblinyep World Cup, all for it!Aug 06 23:19
ThistleWebif the UK (not england) hosted it, we already have LOTS of stadia already in place capable og hosting the biggest gamesAug 06 23:20
ThistleWebthey're in use every week for permier league gamesAug 06 23:20
_goblinAgreed Thistleweb: but then its all about making the bigger show than the last country....Aug 06 23:20
ThistleWebyeah, always gotta be "the best yet"Aug 06 23:20
ThistleWebbankrupt a small country paying for the opening ceremonyAug 06 23:20
_goblinand what about the Olympic logo....Aug 06 23:21
_goblinlook how much that rubbish cost.Aug 06 23:21
ThistleWebthese events are an excuse to milk the taxpayer for contractsAug 06 23:21
oiaohmOur opening ceremony cost less than the one before it.Aug 06 23:22
ThistleWeboiaohm: like I stated, the Aussies are smart bastards when it comes to hosting major eventsAug 06 23:22
oiaohmDoes help that lots of the fancy fireworks are made in Australia.Aug 06 23:22
oiaohmSo every Olympics is basically australian income.Aug 06 23:22
ThistleWebsomething we Brits seem incapable of doingAug 06 23:22
oiaohmThe on stage items were designed to be recycled.Aug 06 23:23
oiaohmIf you look closely all the tin sheds were using full un cut sheets where able.Aug 06 23:23
oiaohmLarge ammount of cost comes from left overs.Aug 06 23:24
oiaohmGood planing can keep the open show costs down.   You are not going to be able to match chinas with there army of people.Aug 06 23:24
oiaohmYou are going to have to do a good show by being smarter not costing more.Aug 06 23:25
ThistleWebshameless plug alert - my screencast on mozilla usability is finally out  hackerpublicradio.orgAug 06 23:27
ThistleWebI recorded it a couple of months ago, it's been sitting on the FTP sinceAug 06 23:28
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oiaohmWe also recycle event sites.Aug 06 23:28
ThistleWebChina is a low wage country tooAug 06 23:29
_goblinIll check it out and link it Thistleweb!Aug 06 23:29
oiaohmWe got the Olypincs and the next year the same locatiosn built for Olypincs to host other events.Aug 06 23:29
oiaohmSo recovering and making profts on them.Aug 06 23:29
ThistleWeb_goblin: ty, the file on the hpr feed is the audio only mp3, the avi is optional, thats the way HPR do things. I really want peeps to watch it to see what I'm getting itAug 06 23:30
oiaohmIf UK gets there planing good it will be fine.Aug 06 23:30
oiaohmEven china did the same.Aug 06 23:31
ThistleWeboiaohm: lol, you have more faith in the UK than it deservesAug 06 23:31
oiaohmIf you go to china now every single location for the games has been recycled into something.Aug 06 23:31
ThistleWebit will go just as smooth as the Dome, or the Scottish Parliment buildingAug 06 23:31
ThistleWebmany times over budgetAug 06 23:31
ThistleWebonly just done in timeAug 06 23:31
ThistleWebwith lots of corners cutAug 06 23:32
oiaohmOur parlement house was over budget too.Aug 06 23:32
ThistleWeband the contractors waltzing all the way to the bankAug 06 23:32
oiaohmBuilding into a hill has its problems.Aug 06 23:32
ThistleWebin the Scottish Parliment case, it was MSP's always wanting new stuff added AFTER the plans had been finalised and acceptedAug 06 23:32
oiaohmOnly thing in our Parliment house that is above the past ground level is the flag pole sticking out the top.Aug 06 23:33
ThistleWebbuilding into a hill will provide natural insulationAug 06 23:34
oiaohmAs you can guess our Parliment house has a limited number of windows.Aug 06 23:34
ThistleWebwhich will help cut running costs I'd assumeAug 06 23:34
ThistleWebthat tooAug 06 23:34
_goblinThe Shires!Aug 06 23:34
_goblinCall me Bilbo!Aug 06 23:34
ThistleWeblolAug 06 23:34
ThistleWebgrass roofAug 06 23:35
_goblinIll let you be GandalfAug 06 23:35
ThistleWebI gave up the pipe weedAug 06 23:35
_goblinand Ballmer can be GolumAug 06 23:35
oiaohmOk we do have some complete citys that are mines turned into houses.Aug 06 23:35
_goblinactually.......Aug 06 23:35
_goblinthere is a similarity come to think of it....Aug 06 23:35
oiaohmYes the roof of the Australian Parliment house has to be mowed.Aug 06 23:36
oiaohmReal nice fun job there.Aug 06 23:36
oiaohmGets even funnier it took almost 100 years to decide on what the Australian Parliment house should look like so they could move out of the temporary one.Aug 06 23:39
oiaohmYou talk about your goverment having problems making up there minds on the plans.Aug 06 23:40
oiaohmOur capitial city was build to be one.Aug 06 23:40
ThistleWebstuff like that comes down to who's gonna be the one in front of the cameras taking the plaudits when it opensAug 06 23:40
ThistleWebiff they'e likely to be booted out before that happens, a party will block itAug 06 23:41
ThistleWebthey dont want to start a project only to have the opposition at the finish line taking the applauseAug 06 23:41
ThistleWebthat can happen in reverse too, with a major disaster like the dome, where the new govt will take the blameAug 06 23:43
oiaohmIts the size of the block of land they were playing with.Aug 06 23:43
ThistleWebin that case, the govt didnt changeAug 06 23:43
oiaohmThe Parliment house makes up about 15 percent of the cities land area.Aug 06 23:43
oiaohm300 x 300 metter building.Aug 06 23:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme Sticky (Fixed) SideNav Layout with CSS http://bit.ly/VF2mdAug 06 23:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How GNU/Linux Devoured Microsoft’s Business Model http://ping.fm/yQd34Aug 06 23:51
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