IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 24th, 2009

DaemonFCthere's a tax on all blank media there that goes to the CRIAAug 24 00:00
DaemonFCwhether or not you burn music on itAug 24 00:00
Diablo-D3man, why is DaemonFC still hereAug 24 00:00
cubezzznot if you buy on the resAug 24 00:00
cubezzzj/kAug 24 00:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Korean Contest Launched 24 00:01
_Goblinbit of a sad story here: I had a warning from my ISP a while ago due to sharing a Linux distro on BT...either they were simply clueless or didnt like the idea of me using the bandwidth Im paying for.Aug 24 00:02
_GoblinI think the distro was Fedora......Aug 24 00:02
cubezzzmaybe your ISP likes Gentoo? :)Aug 24 00:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux 2.6.31 Reaches Seventh RC 24 00:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 7 Reasons Why GNU/Linux Overshadows Vista 7 24 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple and GNU/Linux Technically Not So Different After All 24 00:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz well yes. OTOH myISAM really is complete shit and should never be used, ever. also, daily backups.Aug 24 00:05
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux 2.6.31 Reaches Seventh RC 24 00:06
_Goblincubezzz: sorry afk....or it likes its customers to use its service like they are still on dialup.Aug 24 00:08
_Goblincubezzz: whilst paying broadband prices.Aug 24 00:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Simon Gives GNU/Linux Speech Recognition-Driven User Interfaces 24 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Development Glimpse at Mandriva Linux 2010.0 24 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SLAMPP 2.0.x (GNU/Linux Distribution) Released 24 00:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hilti Moves to Red Hat GNU/Linux 24 00:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at What's New in Ubuntu Linux 9.04 and a Review 24 00:18
trmancohehe myisamAug 24 00:18
trmancoit might be crap, but it is fastAug 24 00:18
trmancoinnodb is more reliable, but it also is slowerAug 24 00:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of the Ubuntu-based PC-OS 2009.03 24 00:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nokia's Linux Tablets Get Fennec, Sub-notebooks Coming Too 24 00:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Reasons Other Than Cost to Use Free Software 24 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software Heroes in the Press 24 00:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free Software in Education Defended, Expanded 24 00:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle's Ownership of Java and Other SUN Assets Not Final Yet 24 00:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Windows Viruses Lead to Bank Account Breaches 24 00:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Windows Standards of 'Polish' 24 00:39
DaemonFCactually that problem is gone in Windows 7Aug 24 00:40
DaemonFCas for malware, banks still use Windows XPAug 24 00:40
DaemonFCevery process is automatically an administrator processAug 24 00:41
DaemonFCnot goodAug 24 00:41
DaemonFCespecially if you have lots of people using that systemAug 24 00:41
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DaemonFC 24 01:32
Diablo-D3that url looks badAug 24 01:33
DaemonFCI don't use URL shorteners, they could lead to anythingAug 24 01:34
Diablo-D3I wasnt aware micheal jackson was for saleAug 24 01:36
DaemonFCdohAug 24 01:37
*DaemonFC donates his body to the children of the worldAug 24 01:37
*Diablo-D3 snarksAug 24 01:37
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DaemonFC 24 01:41
DaemonFCbest move review everAug 24 01:41
Diablo-D3oldAug 24 01:42
DaemonFCmehAug 24 01:42
DaemonFCstill goodAug 24 01:42
schestowitzInteresting: 24 01:42
Diablo-D3ffffffffAug 24 01:42
Diablo-D3not the zeigeist shit againAug 24 01:42
DaemonFCyeah, I was following them up to the second half of the sequelAug 24 01:43
DaemonFCwhere they let loose about how we should build a communist utopia that looks suspiciously like it was rendered on an Amiga Video ToasterAug 24 01:44
Diablo-D3fuck yeah amigaAug 24 01:44
Diablo-D3<3 amigaAug 24 01:44
DaemonFCI'd like to see how you'd get people to build thatAug 24 01:46
DaemonFCthe people that are smart enough would all want paid the big bucksAug 24 01:46
Diablo-D3screw the communist utopia shitAug 24 01:46
DaemonFCthe people who would be building it would want union jobsAug 24 01:46
Diablo-D3we need amiga back on the desktopAug 24 01:46
Diablo-D3that'd cause world pieceAug 24 01:47
Diablo-D3er, peaceAug 24 01:47
DaemonFCand the people and politicians calling for it would be the "Bush/Cheney '04" soccer moms and crazy people that masturbate in public and talk to buildings?Aug 24 01:47
DaemonFCperhaps?Aug 24 01:47
DaemonFCno?Aug 24 01:47
DaemonFCthe only thing people have ever worked together on that didn't involve huge monetary gains was banding together to kill the other guysAug 24 01:49
DaemonFCI want to know how they propose everyone in the world bands together to build the terraformed communist domesAug 24 01:50
DaemonFC 24 01:55
Diablo-D3 24 01:57
DaemonFC 24 01:58
DaemonFC 24 01:59
DaemonFC:DAug 24 01:59
DaemonFC 24 02:01
DaemonFC 24 02:05
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schestowitzStop putting Microsoft ads here, fanboiAug 24 02:07
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 24 02:08
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to fewaAug 24 02:08
DaemonFCthe worst part about it is that Plug and Pray used to be a Windows 98 jokeAug 24 02:11
Balroghaha, it isAug 24 02:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intellectual Monopolies and Bottling up “Free Water” 24 02:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Raises Prices, Dodges Old Brands 24 02:45
fewapatents are corporate welfare, that sums it up pretty nicelyAug 24 02:59
fewaesp the Bush brand of it: let pharmaceuticals patent things the the NIH largely researched, then force Medicare to pay more than any other country for pharmaceuticals by forcing them not to bargain for pricesAug 24 03:00
fewathats the polar opposite of "free market"Aug 24 03:00
Diablo-D3lookAug 24 03:01
Diablo-D3we get itAug 24 03:01
Diablo-D3bush sucksAug 24 03:01
fewabut the same republicans that passed that are still in officeAug 24 03:02
fewamany of them at leastAug 24 03:02
fewaso its not just bushAug 24 03:02
Diablo-D3ive been saying this for yearsAug 24 03:03
Diablo-D3and you know what?Aug 24 03:03
Diablo-D3fuck itAug 24 03:03
Diablo-D3tommorow, Im going to join the republican partyAug 24 03:03
DaemonFCmight as well just blindfold yourself in the voting booth and push buttons at randomAug 24 03:04
DaemonFCit's the same outcomeAug 24 03:04
fewaDaemonFC, that will be funnyAug 24 03:04
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: not trueAug 24 03:04
Diablo-D3I may accidently vote for ron paulAug 24 03:04
DaemonFCI may vote for Zombie JesusAug 24 03:05
Diablo-D3ron paul > *Aug 24 03:05
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DaemonFCsame thingAug 24 03:05
DaemonFCRon Paul is scarier than mostAug 24 03:06
DaemonFCthat's why he's a perennial fringe candidateAug 24 03:07
Diablo-D3one of few candidates I give money toAug 24 03:10
DaemonFCand there's money you'll never see againAug 24 03:11
DaemonFCit keeps Skeletor talking I guessAug 24 03:11
*Diablo-D3 just laughs at DaemonFC Aug 24 03:11
Diablo-D3what a silly childAug 24 03:11
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DaemonFC`damn it to hellAug 24 03:12
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DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Why waste perfectly good money on Ron Paul?Aug 24 03:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Just as Bad as Vista, But Microsoft Removes Choice 24 03:23
DaemonFCthose little $299 Acer netbooks at Walmart are all XPAug 24 03:25
DaemonFCI doubt anyone would notice any functional difference on a netbook no matter what OS it had on itAug 24 03:26
fewaDaemonFC, your dead rightAug 24 03:26
DaemonFCis that some kind of threat?Aug 24 03:27
fewa?Aug 24 03:27
DaemonFCwell, any OS can run a web browser and check your emailAug 24 03:28
fewaMost users don't see a functional difference between Linux and WindowsAug 24 03:28
DaemonFCan OS really isn't the selling point of a limited mini notebookAug 24 03:28
fewaBoth run FirefoxAug 24 03:28
DaemonFCor Opera for that matterAug 24 03:28
DaemonFCwhy the hell even have a netbook?Aug 24 03:29
DaemonFCOpera runs on my blackberryAug 24 03:29
schestowitzgn. fewa, pls keep an eye on the resident trolls ;-)Aug 24 03:30
fewagnAug 24 03:30
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DaemonFCI guess what I mean is that a netbook is too limited to replace a laptop and too bulky and unwieldy to try and pretend it's a mobile deviceAug 24 03:31
Balrogschestowitz: unfortunately, Windows 7 is getting people to upgrade :\Aug 24 03:32
fewadowngradeAug 24 03:32
DaemonFCWindows 7 already has about 0.6% of web trafficAug 24 03:32
DaemonFCand it's not even out til OctoberAug 24 03:33
BalrogDaemonFC: MSDN people have itAug 24 03:33
Balrogsuch as me ... I fall under MSDN-AAAug 24 03:33
Balrogwhich I get whether I like it or not :(Aug 24 03:33
fewaBalrog, you mean bribing people?Aug 24 03:33
Balrogand my "lab fees" pay for it :( no choice thereAug 24 03:34
DaemonFCthat;s funnyAug 24 03:34
Balrogfewa: no, people I know personally who aren't affiliated with MSAug 24 03:34
DaemonFCanyway, Opera Mini is probably the best mobile phone browser there ever wasAug 24 03:35
DaemonFCwhich is probably why it controls almsot 90% of that marketAug 24 03:35
fewaDaemonFC, ummmmmAug 24 03:35
fewathe iPhone alone is more than 10%Aug 24 03:36
DaemonFCiPhones are a rare and expensive thing that just screams lock inAug 24 03:36
DaemonFCPocket IE is a toyAug 24 03:36
DaemonFCFennec is jsut as badAug 24 03:36
WillIf it weren't for the whole "slag my mbr" part, I wouldn't mind installing Win7 to review it.  But I don't have a spare machine to use and don't want to bother straightening out the boot settings after the install.  Not enough free space at the moment to vm it.Aug 24 03:36
DaemonFCWill: Just restore GRUB laterAug 24 03:36
fewaDaemonFC, lawlAug 24 03:36
DaemonFCor tweak your Windows bootloader to boot into your Linux partitionAug 24 03:37
Willlooking forward to reading Goblin's review, though.Aug 24 03:37
DaemonFC"bitch bitch bitch, Vista7, bitch some more"Aug 24 03:38
DaemonFCsaved you the troubleAug 24 03:38
fewaDaemonFC, all you do it rave, it makes you look like a toolAug 24 03:38
DaemonFCwas there ever any doubt that an article from you people would be anything less than 100% bitching?Aug 24 03:39
WillI don't suppose 7 can be run off a USB stick, can it?Aug 24 03:40
DaemonFCI mean even the people that are paid by Microsoft to write reviews sometimes maybe give Linux a backhanded complimentAug 24 03:40
DaemonFClearn from that, makes you look slightly less of a shillAug 24 03:40
DaemonFCyes, it canAug 24 03:40
Willoh.  ok.  What is the minimum size USB needed?Aug 24 03:40
DaemonFCyou do need a rather large USB stick, but the price on those has dropped considerablyAug 24 03:41
Balrogbleh, iPhone is so easy to jailbreakAug 24 03:41
Balrogand more and more people are doing itAug 24 03:41
DaemonFCoh, you'll need about 14-15 gigs for the OSAug 24 03:41
Balrog(with all the negative publicity lately)Aug 24 03:41
DaemonFCprobably going to want a 32 gig thumbdriveAug 24 03:41
Balrogalso, iPod Touch is considered "iphone OS"Aug 24 03:41
fewaBalrog, id rather have a phone that didn't have to be broken out of jailAug 24 03:42
DaemonFCI'd rather have one wher eI don't feel the needAug 24 03:42
fewaand constantly track priviliage exploitation exploits to get thereAug 24 03:42
ThistleWebthe complaint about Windows 7 over writing the MBR and removing all references to non-Windows OS's that may be there, how is this different to previous Windows? XP does this, so does 2000, I think they all doAug 24 03:42
DaemonFCBlackberry does that for meAug 24 03:42
DaemonFCthey have always done thatAug 24 03:42
Willnevermind that.  For now anyway.  That and I'm not sure a review of the free trial version out now would be accurate for the retail version anyway.Aug 24 03:42
DaemonFCit's not some new developmentAug 24 03:42
DaemonFCit's the endless quest for yellow journalismAug 24 03:43
fewaThistleWeb, and Windows has had the same MBR since 200 IIRCAug 24 03:43
ThistleWebit's not right, they shouldn't be allowed to, but it's not new behaviour. Peeps who want to dual boot Windows and Linux have known for ages that you have to put Windows on first because of thisAug 24 03:43
WillYeah, I kinda thought that was old news too, to be honest.Aug 24 03:44
fewayou can also segregate it onto another drive and not allowing to to see the other race while installing itAug 24 03:44
DaemonFCor restore GRUB laterAug 24 03:44
DaemonFCit's not that difficultAug 24 03:44
ThistleWebeven dual booting with various Windows you have to put them on, oldest firstAug 24 03:44
DaemonFCyeah, Windows doesn't even want to dual boot with other versions of WindowsAug 24 03:44
ThistleWebit's good to draw attention to the abuse and arrogance of MS's MBR actionsAug 24 03:44
ThistleWebbut it's now newAug 24 03:45
ThistleWebnot*Aug 24 03:45
DaemonFCcourse I don't know why you wouldAug 24 03:45
DaemonFCdual booting Windows with Windows was onyl real useful when it was 98 and 2000 or possibly if you needed 95 and NTAug 24 03:45
fewaDaemonFC, maybe because every version of Windows breaks compatibility with old programs?Aug 24 03:45
DaemonFCfewa: I haven't ran into thatAug 24 03:45
DaemonFCI've thrown programs and games as far back as Windows 95 on Windows 7Aug 24 03:46
fewaDaemonFC, then you havn't used WindowsAug 24 03:46
fewaor are a shillAug 24 03:46
DaemonFCthe biggest problem I had was with the oridinal DOOM 95 engine which used a VxD for the mouseAug 24 03:46
DaemonFCloading the WADs into Doomsday works much better anywayAug 24 03:46
DaemonFC*originalAug 24 03:46
fewaDaemonFC, you yourself have said that Wine works better with old WIndows API stuff than WindowsAug 24 03:47
DaemonFCI also have DirectX games that date back to DirectX 3 which still work under DirectX 11Aug 24 03:47
DaemonFCreally old, yesAug 24 03:47
DaemonFCwe're talking ancientAug 24 03:47
DaemonFCWindows 3.1 softwareAug 24 03:48
Balrogfewa: Android and Pre also have to be broken out of jail :\Aug 24 03:48
DaemonFC64-bit Windows has no 16-bit compatibility system so you lose all your old Windows 3.x softwareAug 24 03:48
DaemonFCstill that's pretty goodAug 24 03:48
DaemonFCI have trouble getting Linux software from 2000 to work in modern distrosAug 24 03:49
WillI've kinda gotten a small sense of whiplash with some of the {upgrade, don't upgrade} to 7 arguments.  For a long time, some MS proponents have banged the drum that it would be too difficult for most users to relearn the UI if they switched to Mac or Linux.  Now the MS proponents make a big deal about how no one should be afraid to change the UI and go to 7.Aug 24 03:49
DaemonFCand end up using the Windows version in WineAug 24 03:49
DaemonFCWindows Vista's user interface was a train wreckAug 24 03:49
fewaWill, their hypocrisy shows through againAug 24 03:50
ThistleWebmost UI's have so much in common these days that it's not that difficult to get used to user-land stuff done in any of themAug 24 03:50
DaemonFCand to top that off, folder views had massive amount of bugs which always managed to give you the wrong icon viewAug 24 03:50
ThistleWebpees don't bat an eyelid when they get a new mobile phone with a new UI from their last oneAug 24 03:50
fewaIn the haloween documents (~1998) Microsoft internally recognized that a Win32 user would have a quick learning curve to use LinuxAug 24 03:51
ThistleWebthey spend a little time playing with it, and within a few days they can pretty much navigate to what they need with no mistakesAug 24 03:51
fewaall the rest is FUDAug 24 03:51
DaemonFCRibbon is more eye candy than anything, I don't see a major learning curve, it does uncomplicate things some thoughAug 24 03:51
ThistleWebevery car has a different UI with a lot of common traitsAug 24 03:51
ThistleWebyet drivers can switch from one to another quicklyAug 24 03:51
DaemonFCI'm going to laugh when someone makes a ribbon UI for GNOME or KDEAug 24 03:51
fewaDaemonFC, they have existed for 15 yearsAug 24 03:52
fewaeven in KDEAug 24 03:52
DaemonFCthat's because you don't have to learn 1,000 unintuitive and hard to remember commandsAug 24 03:52
DaemonFCthe positioning of the controls are just a little differentAug 24 03:52
DaemonFCno two unix utilities work alike, they all use the most bizarre names you'd never guessAug 24 03:53
DaemonFCand they all take different arguments formatted differentlyAug 24 03:53
BalrogDaemonFC: falsoAug 24 03:53
Balrogplease no fud :(Aug 24 03:53
Balrogfalse *Aug 24 03:53
DaemonFCgrepAug 24 03:53
Willbut they all have manpagesAug 24 03:53
BalrogeaseAug 24 03:54
DaemonFCwho the hell would call something "grep"?Aug 24 03:54
DaemonFCtell meAug 24 03:54
Balrogcat 'file' | grep 'regexp'Aug 24 03:54
DaemonFCif Satan designed an OS, the first thing he'd do would make a utility called grepAug 24 03:54
DaemonFCand then maybe he'd use 8.3 namingAug 24 03:54
DaemonFC:DAug 24 03:54
DaemonFCand case insensitive file namesAug 24 03:55
DaemonFCand case sensitive searchesAug 24 03:55
Willmust resist urge to make MS copying joke....Aug 24 03:55
DaemonFCnotice how only one of those is a DOS/old Windows annoyanceAug 24 03:55
DaemonFCthe rest never die in unixAug 24 03:55
DaemonFCinstead you get to use some bloat like Beagle to index a database of items to later be searched, which is smarter than the search utilities written in the 70sAug 24 03:56
BalrogDaemonFC: if you think UNIX commands are badAug 24 03:56
BalrogMS-DOS is horrible.Aug 24 03:56
DaemonFCthey're awfulAug 24 03:56
WillFrom wikipedia: grep is a command line text search utility originally written for Unix. The name is taken from the first letters in global / regular expression / print, a series of instructions for the ed text editor.Aug 24 03:56
DaemonFCwho uses DOS?Aug 24 03:56
Balrogthey get the job done fastAug 24 03:56
DaemonFCunix clones are the only remaining OS that things torturing the user with bizarre command line interfaces is coolAug 24 03:57
DaemonFC*thinksAug 24 03:57
Willit's not like you have to use the command line.Aug 24 03:57
WillBut sometimes the command line is just faster/more efficient than the GUI method.Aug 24 03:58
DaemonFCtrue, but the GUIs are usually so piss-poorly designed that it *is* faster to use the terminalAug 24 03:58
BalrogDaemonFC: what if you have only an SSH connection to work with?Aug 24 03:58
BalrogThat's very often the case for meAug 24 03:58
ThistleWebmany GUI's are fine for most usesAug 24 03:58
DaemonFCtry using KPackagekit on Kubuntu and tell me why a search for something that IS in the repo doesn't always show results?Aug 24 03:58
Willssh is a good case for command line.Aug 24 03:58
ThistleWebthey provide easy defaults in a way that lets normal (non-techy) peeps actually use a PCAug 24 03:59
DaemonFChuman beings don't work like thatAug 24 03:59
DaemonFCthat's why no successful consumer OS uses a command line as the primary interfaceAug 24 03:59
ThistleWebif you have a need for more advanced stuff, it's in your interests to get to know the fine controls of the tools you work withAug 24 03:59
WillThere's also all kinds of command line voodoo for manipulating files and directories with a single line that would take much longer to do by hand with a GUI filebrowser.Aug 24 03:59
DaemonFCthe task oriented user interface in Windows is so thorough that you could rip out the command prompt totally and most users would never feel like anything was missingAug 24 04:00
WillDaemonFC: Linux doesn't use the command line as the primary interface anymore.Aug 24 04:00
DaemonFCthe fact that you need a CLI in a OS meant for consumers is the first sign that it was designed poorlyAug 24 04:00
Willthough it certainly still can if need beAug 24 04:00
ThistleWebname an OS without a cliAug 24 04:02
ThistleWebdesktop OSAug 24 04:02
DaemonFCeven when I need to use arguments and switches in a utility (Lame for example), I'm not actually using a CLIAug 24 04:02
ThistleWebwiindows and osx also have oneAug 24 04:02
DaemonFCI tell the program what to pass to the encoder and it remembers it from then onAug 24 04:02
ThistleWebjust like Linux, most users can work just fine with a guiAug 24 04:02
DaemonFCbatch file operations just fall apart on a CLIAug 24 04:02
ThistleWebbut it's still thereAug 24 04:02
BalrogThistleWeb: only one I know ofAug 24 04:03
BalrogMac OS 9 and earlierAug 24 04:03
DaemonFCin Windows I tell it what to do once then I can select 1,000 files if needs be and it will process them with my optionsAug 24 04:03
ThistleWebBalrog: not used that, so I'll take your word for itAug 24 04:03
DaemonFCthe CLI is just not capable of thatAug 24 04:03
BalrogThistleWeb: it has absolutely NO CLIAug 24 04:03
DaemonFCI could make a script to do the working folder or subfolders maybeAug 24 04:03
ThistleWebthe point is that any OS designed with GUI use, also has a cli for those who want to use itAug 24 04:04
DaemonFCbut I lose the fine grained control and a lot of convenienceAug 24 04:04
DaemonFCand then I'm sitting there for hours doing a task that would take minutes in the GUIAug 24 04:04
ThistleWebor for those who want to get more specific functions out of apps that allow itAug 24 04:04
WillDaemonFC: do you know how to use regular expressions?Aug 24 04:05
DaemonFCpeople that argue for the CLI really, I think, want a return to black and white TVs that took 5 minutes to warm up before a picture appeared on the screenAug 24 04:05
DaemonFCit's the same line of sentimental notionAug 24 04:05
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DaemonFCfreaking dinosaursAug 24 04:05
neighborleeits not thatAug 24 04:06
neighborleeimho anywayAug 24 04:06
neighborleeits  geekideology101Aug 24 04:06
WillHere's one use case I was thinking of:  10,000 files.  You need to sort them into 3 bins based on part of the text string in the middle of the files.  About 3 lines, tops, in cli.Aug 24 04:06
neighborleeif its hard,,its a challenge and therfore im kewl if I can do itAug 24 04:06
DaemonFCI used DOS for years, and it's not because it was a good operating system, it's because it ran well on the puny hardware of the late 80s and early 90sAug 24 04:06
neighborleehardly grounds for imprisonment, but I dont like the attitude eitherAug 24 04:06
ThistleWebmost users can use their PC, regardless of the OS installed, and never see a CLIAug 24 04:07
neighborleecorrectAug 24 04:07
DaemonFCI can still use DOS, though I'm not arguing that it should make a comebackAug 24 04:07
neighborlee:)Aug 24 04:07
DaemonFCDOS really was not even an OS by today's terms, there were only a handful of system calls that it understood and then you're on your ownAug 24 04:08
WillThink of it as manual vs automatic transmission (except here the car has both and can freely switch between them).Aug 24 04:08
DaemonFCevery program on DOS was its own operating systemAug 24 04:08
DaemonFCDOOM even joked about that in the betas, the loader called itself the DOOM Operating SystemAug 24 04:08
neighborleenothing wrong with understanding how to use cli and whyAug 24 04:09
neighborleeBUT not out of box ;)Aug 24 04:09
Willneighborlee: agreed :)Aug 24 04:09
DaemonFCit had to use DOS4GW to extend DOS just enough to load DOOM in the first placeAug 24 04:09
neighborleeand it should always be last resort when helping others..Aug 24 04:09
neighborleeI want linux to be as useable and have as many apps/games as windows does ,,someday..not doing that will not help the cause on any level ;)Aug 24 04:10
DaemonFCI ended up registering some shareware called 4DOS as a replacement command interpreterAug 24 04:10
neighborleewindows out of box cli is nastyAug 24 04:11
neighborleeenough, but ...;)Aug 24 04:11
DaemonFCpeople complain now, they should have had to deal with DOS, they really should haveAug 24 04:11
neighborlee:)Aug 24 04:11
DaemonFCworry about how much memory under 640k you could free up, fuck around with EMM386Aug 24 04:11
BalrogI had to deal with DOS several years ago :(Aug 24 04:11
Balrogyes, I know that.Aug 24 04:11
DaemonFCor pay for Quarterdeck's QEMM386Aug 24 04:11
Willneighborlee: also agreed.  I don't think new users should be forced to know cli.  I just think cli has its place and should never be taken out/blocked off/whatever.  I grew up using the gui, but I learned the value and beauty of cli when it is the best tool for the job.Aug 24 04:12
DaemonFCI'd really prefer a standardized GUI paradigm and no CLI at allAug 24 04:12
neighborleeWill, yupAug 24 04:12
DaemonFCbut it's Linux, there's 1,000 variations of everythingAug 24 04:13
neighborleegah dont remind me ;))Aug 24 04:13
DaemonFCthere's no way to release an all encompassing "The Complete Idiot's Guide To Linux"Aug 24 04:13
DaemonFCit would take well over 100,000 pages to document everything and be obsolete next weekAug 24 04:13
DaemonFCthe introduction alone would make your head explodeAug 24 04:14
WillNot like a Win98 book is relevant today either.Aug 24 04:14
neighborleemany would likely not argue, but its made lots of advancements you must admitAug 24 04:14
DaemonFCmehAug 24 04:14
DaemonFCa how to use Windows book is typically about 200-300 pagesAug 24 04:14
DaemonFCand covers everything wellAug 24 04:14
DaemonFCand has room for cartoon stripsAug 24 04:15
ThistleWebyep, buy this, buy thatAug 24 04:15
neighborleelolAug 24 04:15
DaemonFCthere's a Complete Idiot's Guide to Ubuntu you know?Aug 24 04:15
DaemonFC:)Aug 24 04:15
neighborleeoh my you had that one coming ;))Aug 24 04:15
DaemonFCand you don't have to buy themAug 24 04:15
DaemonFCthe library has themAug 24 04:15
ThistleWebMS don't make a habit of wanting to educating peeps though, it's in their interests to keep users dumbAug 24 04:15
ThistleWebthe more peeps are encouraged with knowldege, the more they may start to wonder if there are alternates to MSAug 24 04:16
DaemonFCthe How To books for Vista were the largest ones yetAug 24 04:16
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ThistleWebspecially when they seek further knoweldge onlineAug 24 04:16
DaemonFCit almost approached the official ubuntu bookAug 24 04:16
WillDaemonFC, if there is, then good.  I'm fine with there being a small number of "beginner level" distros that people are shuttled toward.Aug 24 04:16
neighborleeDaemonFC, I dont doubt that at allAug 24 04:16
ThistleWebyour duty as a windows user is to keep buying stuff from MSAug 24 04:16
ThistleWebnothing elseAug 24 04:16
DaemonFCWill: I read the official ubuntu bookAug 24 04:16
DaemonFCit's a good referenceAug 24 04:16
WillI haven't read that oneAug 24 04:17
DaemonFCit basically is all about GNOME, but it has chapters for KDE and XFCE as wellAug 24 04:17
ThistleWebevery MS book wants to teach you how to do the basics in that version of Windows using only MS appsAug 24 04:17
ThistleWebwhich gives them an excuse to sella new version with the next Windows, and keeps people indoctrinated in the processAug 24 04:18
ThistleWeb"open up internet explorer tm and go to......"Aug 24 04:18
ThistleWebnot "open your web browser and go to....."Aug 24 04:19
neighborleewell MS lost on that one at leastAug 24 04:19
WillDaemonFC and neighborlee: I'd actually prefer to see, for the short term, the Linux mainstream condense around something like Ubuntu or one like it.  Gives companies a single target to shoot far.  Helps new people feel less overwhelmed.  The thing is, there's nothing "Starter" about Ubuntu.  They can do practically everything a Debian or Fedora or Gentoo user can.  And they can explore those later if they feel so inclined.Aug 24 04:19
ThistleWebit's promo / indoctrination thinly disguised as educationAug 24 04:19
neighborleeI dont recall details, but at least they lostAug 24 04:19
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 24 04:19
DaemonFCthe I've seen Windows books emphatically recommend FirefoxAug 24 04:20
ThistleWebI bet they're all marked "unofficial"Aug 24 04:20
neighborleeWill, I would love nothing less than to get behind ubuntu with all Ive got..but I can't do that for obvious reaonsAug 24 04:20
neighborleesonsAug 24 04:20
DaemonFCthe ones straight from Microsoft will go over how to use IEAug 24 04:20
DaemonFCthey all will to some extentAug 24 04:21
neighborleeWill, but yes,,precisely whats needed ,,for some distro...o_0Aug 24 04:21
DaemonFCsome books have a chapter for IE and a chapter for FirefoxAug 24 04:21
DaemonFCanyhow, Windows 7 lets you banish IE once and for allAug 24 04:21
neighborleeis ubuntu even testing yet for  delpha installs ?Aug 24 04:21
neighborleegahAug 24 04:21
neighborlee'delta'Aug 24 04:21
ThistleWebDaemonFC: no it don't, it still keeps the guts of IE installed regardless of the browser installationAug 24 04:22
ThistleWebthat's not banishingAug 24 04:22
ThistleWebIE cant be completely removedAug 24 04:22
DaemonFCwell yeah, IE is really only a frontendAug 24 04:23
DaemonFCWindows needs the layout engine for hyperhelp and to be embedded in other programsAug 24 04:23
WillAnd it doesn't have to be Ubuntu that becomes the "One".  I'm not distro-partisan.  It's just that Ubuntu looks like the one best positioned to do that at present.Aug 24 04:23
ThistleWebI also notice MS fully acceopt the reasons behind consumer choice and have offered the install window to ALL windows 7 users, not just in the IE where they've been forced to / sarcasmAug 24 04:23
DaemonFCI mean that the browser will never bother you again when you've already told it to go awayAug 24 04:24
ThistleWebso even if you choose not to install IE, you can still be vulnerable to it's exploitsAug 24 04:24
ThistleWebhow touchingAug 24 04:24
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 24 04:24
DaemonFCthe browser part is gone, so unless you run a malicious program that for whatever reason needs to embed TridentAug 24 04:25
DaemonFCby that time it already has access to your system because you ran it locallyAug 24 04:25
DaemonFCthings like the Safari carpet bombing attack couldn't workAug 24 04:25
DaemonFCWindows Live Mail, if you install it that is, only uses the restricted zone, can't run scripts or attachmentsAug 24 04:26
fewaDaemonFC, buckusAug 24 04:26
DaemonFCthere's not much of a security risk in having TridentAug 24 04:26
fewaMicrosoft has pushed the trident API hardAug 24 04:26
fewaand purposefully made it so other browsers cannot provide itAug 24 04:26
DaemonFCunless you're browsing around with it in Maxthon or somethingAug 24 04:26
DaemonFCMaxthon does embed TridentAug 24 04:26
DaemonFC:)Aug 24 04:26
DaemonFCit's very easy to make a web browser that uses Trident as the rendering engineAug 24 04:27
fewaDaemonFC, Its a security threat until it is removed from the systemAug 24 04:27
DaemonFCI fail to see howAug 24 04:27
DaemonFCunless you load it up in another browserAug 24 04:27
fewaDaemonFC, its easy to make a *cross-platform* browser that uses gecko, webkit, etcAug 24 04:27
fewaDaemonFC, and isn't full of holesAug 24 04:27
ThistleWebI am really starting to wonder if DaemonFC is a MS employeeAug 24 04:28
DaemonFCthere have only been like 4 holes in IE 8 so farAug 24 04:28
DaemonFCand none of them affect Vista or 7Aug 24 04:28
fewa.kick DaemonFC bullshitAug 24 04:28
fewao)Aug 24 04:28
fewao0Aug 24 04:28
DaemonFCMaxthon is actually about as popular as Firefox in ChinaAug 24 04:29
fewaWhy InPrivate is no excuse for IE's InDecent behavior.Aug 24 04:29
Willor the ads they tried to market it with ... :{Aug 24 04:29
DaemonFCthat was mainly in reference to ad blockingAug 24 04:29
fewa 24 04:29
DaemonFCMaxthon has ad blocking built inAug 24 04:30
DaemonFCand better privacy controlsAug 24 04:30
fewa^^ read the articleAug 24 04:30
fewaIE privacy is like safe prostituteAug 24 04:30
DaemonFCif you have Maxthon in Vista it has to use the zones model same as IE before anything elseAug 24 04:31
DaemonFCwhich means protected mode is onAug 24 04:31
WillEverytime someone plays the "oh noes, Google will eat your privacy" card, I always wonder, without necessarily absolving either side, why they never consider the issue of what data MS might be privy too ( or unintentionally allow to leak out through lax security).Aug 24 04:36
WillNot saying that MS is evil and Google is clean, just that the argument can be applied both ways.Aug 24 04:37
neighborleetotally agreedAug 24 04:42
neighborleeas always vigilence is necesssary..ever more tomorrow as today ;))Aug 24 04:42
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DaemonFCMicrosoft has always been big on "No PERSONAL information will be sent" and "Nobody will use the information to contact you"Aug 24 04:50
DaemonFCso basically it won't personally identify you but they can use it to beuild demographicsAug 24 04:50
DaemonFC*buildAug 24 04:50
DaemonFCit's no worse than what Google doesAug 24 04:51
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DaemonFC 24 04:53
DaemonFClots of themAug 24 04:53
ThistleWebwhatever their policies are, one thing they've never been good at is building secure softwareAug 24 04:54
ThistleWebdoes that policy cover the exploits?Aug 24 04:54
Willg'bye, allAug 24 04:55
DaemonFCNT was very secure til XPAug 24 04:55
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tessierIs there really anything to back up the claim that Bill Gates stole BASIC from a dumpster at Yale?Aug 24 04:55
DaemonFCthey had to undo a lot of its policies to make it work well with the kinds of applications people useAug 24 04:55
ThistleWebI don't remember asking if NT was secure before XPAug 24 04:55
tessierI don't remember NT being secure before XP.Aug 24 04:55
DaemonFCdoes Canonical's privacy policy cover their exploits?Aug 24 04:55
ThistleWebI asked if that policy about only using data to build profiles, but not sharing it covers exploits?Aug 24 04:56
DaemonFCI don't think the Russian mafia cares about your privacyAug 24 04:56
DaemonFCbut that's what you get for installing spywareAug 24 04:56
ThistleWebneither to MSAug 24 04:56
ThistleWebdo*Aug 24 04:56
ThistleWebahh, software installed without the users knowledge which secretly sends back data to whoever installed it, not unlike the WGAAug 24 04:57
ThistleWeblovingly called an advantageAug 24 04:58
fewaDaemonFC, Microsoft has long said things that are not trueAug 24 04:58
DaemonFCWGA has the same policy as WindowsAug 24 04:58
fewaDaemonFC, saying something is not private does not make this soAug 24 04:58
ThistleWebcomparing privacy policies, I'd trust a company who do most of their stuff int he openAug 24 04:59
DaemonFCif you can prove they're sending back personally identifiable informationAug 24 04:59
DaemonFCthen prove itAug 24 04:59
fewaThistleWeb, yes that importantAug 24 04:59
ThistleWebyes they do have a small portion behind closed doorsAug 24 04:59
fewaIf information is not public those who have it are all too liable to change it to suit their interestsAug 24 05:00
DaemonFCa lot of people, including the various government agencies, with smarter people than you on hand would love to know about itAug 24 05:00
ThistleWebbut the vast majority, not just the software, but meeting etc are held in publicAug 24 05:00
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DaemonFCFedora actually profiles your system and puts some of the information about it on a public websiteAug 24 05:00
DaemonFCso does OpenSuseAug 24 05:01
fewaDaemonFC, if you want it toAug 24 05:01
DaemonFCI don't see anyone complaining about SmoltsAug 24 05:01
ThistleWebdebian and ubuntu have the package popularity optionAug 24 05:01
fewaDaemonFC, and as you said, the information is made public, and doesn't include many of the things Microsoft collectsAug 24 05:01
fewasuch as IP address, uniquie hard drive numbersAug 24 05:01
DaemonFCWhat do they colelct?Aug 24 05:01
DaemonFCcan you prove any of these claims?Aug 24 05:01
fewaprocessor ID numbersAug 24 05:01
ThistleWebshowing which packages you use, but it's not ticked by default and is not requiredAug 24 05:02
DaemonFCthey don't store IP addressesAug 24 05:02
DaemonFCthose are immediately discardedAug 24 05:02
ThistleWebMS treat EVERYONE as a theifAug 24 05:02
fewaDaemonFC, Microsoft doesAug 24 05:02
fewa^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Aug 24 05:02
ThistleWebthat's how they justify the stuff they collectAug 24 05:02
DaemonFCyes, they don't store them thoughAug 24 05:02
ThistleWebto protect their shareholders interestsAug 24 05:02
fewaAnd this is even when copyright inffringement is not theftAug 24 05:02
ThistleWebthat's why all the DRMAug 24 05:03
DaemonFCjust opening a connection to a remote server gives them your IP addressAug 24 05:03
fewaDaemonFC, what makes you think thisAug 24 05:03
DaemonFCbecause that's how the system worksAug 24 05:03
fewaDaemonFC, every user of Windows has a unique IDAug 24 05:03
ThistleWebthey assume that not only your copy of windows may be pirated, but also the software you install on it and the media you have on itAug 24 05:03
DaemonFCit deletes your IP address from the information it storesAug 24 05:03
DaemonFCno they don'tAug 24 05:03
fewaDaemonFC, and their computer phones home to Microsoft every 2 weeksAug 24 05:03
DaemonFCthere's a hardware hash, but they don't send a detailed profilingAug 24 05:04
DaemonFCthey don't have toAug 24 05:04
fewaDaemonFC, and if they dont what happens?Aug 24 05:04
ThistleWebDaemonFC: have you nothing better to do that to keep wasting time here trolling under various names?Aug 24 05:04
fewaWhat happens if they turn off their Windows from phoning home DaemonFC ?Aug 24 05:04
DaemonFCthe hardware hash doesn't tell them what individual components you haveAug 24 05:04
DaemonFCit's just a collective ID that's stored alongsie your serialAug 24 05:05
DaemonFCthat could be you, me, anybodyAug 24 05:05
fewaDaemonFC, the privacy policy completely contradicts you.Aug 24 05:05
ThistleWebget kicked (eventually) after a prolonged period of trolling, just to bounce back in and keep it goingAug 24 05:05
ThistleWebwhy?Aug 24 05:05
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DaemonFCI don't know what you mean "various names"Aug 24 05:05
DaemonFCI've always used this name or one damned close to itAug 24 05:06
ThistleWebhow many Daemon names do you have?Aug 24 05:06
fewaThe tools collect information such as:Aug 24 05:06
fewa    * Computer make and modelAug 24 05:06
fewa    * Version information for the operating system and software using Genuine AdvantageAug 24 05:06
fewa    * Region and language settingsAug 24 05:06
fewa    * A unique number assigned to your computer by the tools (Globally Unique Identifier or GUID)Aug 24 05:06
fewa    * Product Key (hashed) and Product IDAug 24 05:06
fewa    * BIOS name, revision number, and revision dateAug 24 05:06
fewa    * Hard drive volume serial number (hashed)Aug 24 05:06
fewa    * )Aug 24 05:06
fewaIn addition to the configuration information above, status information, such as the following, is also transferred:Aug 24 05:06
fewa    * Whether the installation was successful if one was performedAug 24 05:06
fewa    * The result of the validation check, including information about any activation exploits and any related malicious or unauthorized software found, disabled or removed.Aug 24 05:06
fewa    * The name and a hash of the contents of the computer's start-up instructions file (commonly called the boot file) to help us discover activation exploits that modify this file.Aug 24 05:06
fewa 24 05:06
DaemonFCthe hash is based on the components you have, yesAug 24 05:06
DaemonFCit does not send them a detailed profileAug 24 05:07
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ThistleWebeven the location on the server says it all /genuine/Aug 24 05:07
*fewa sets ban on *!*i=opera@* 24 05:07
*fewa has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (enough trolling)Aug 24 05:07
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ThistleWebit's their excuseAug 24 05:07
ThistleWebI'm wating for MattDaemon to arrive lolAug 24 05:08
fewaWGA clearly collects alot of informationAug 24 05:08
ThistleWebor maybe he'd not thought of that oneAug 24 05:08
fewaIts essentially a evidence collect tool ECTAug 24 05:08
ThistleWebthe WGA does qualify as spywareAug 24 05:09
ThistleWeband the OGAAug 24 05:09
fewa*evidence collection toolAug 24 05:09
fewaThe Breach Response Tool (BRT) is used with computers running Windows Vista to detect activation exploits. This tool scans your computer for known activation exploits and notifies you if any activation exploits are found. Data is sent to Microsoft from computers running Windows Vista SP1 and later; no data is sent from computers running Windows Vista RTM.Aug 24 05:09
ThistleWebit also acts as a backdoor to accept instructions to denegrate a PC if it deems it's a prated copyAug 24 05:09
fewaI.E.: This tool downloads arbitrary code to your computer which it executes with Administrator permissionsAug 24 05:10
ThistleWebdid the OGA come into being? or was it shelvedAug 24 05:10
ThistleWeblast I heard about it, it was in the makingAug 24 05:11
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ThistleWebbut it may well have been announced with all the usual fanfare MS reserve for consumer hostile updatesAug 24 05:11
fewaWhy don't people just use, no product keys, no "Genuine Advantage" spyware and evidence collectionAug 24 05:11
DaemonFCbecause it's not compatible with OfficeAug 24 05:11
fewaDon't get treated like a criminal, get your critical software for free in a form you can audit itAug 24 05:12
ThistleWebback again, despite being kicked TWICE for trollingAug 24 05:12
*fewa sets ban on *!*i=none@* 24 05:12
*fewa has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (ban evading)Aug 24 05:12
ThistleWebwhy?Aug 24 05:12
Diablo-D3wow hes finally gone?Aug 24 05:12
*fewa sets ban on *!*i=*@* 24 05:12
ThistleWebfor nowAug 24 05:13
ThistleWebunless I'm reading it wrong, that ban is rather largeAug 24 05:13
twitterATT, "No Skype for you!" 24 05:13
ThistleWebin that it affects many more peeps than just himAug 24 05:13
*fewa sets ban on *!*Daemon*i*@* 24 05:13
*fewa removes ban on *!*i=*@* 24 05:13
fewawill that work?Aug 24 05:13
ThistleWebdunno, I'm hopeless at irc commands like thatAug 24 05:14
*fewa removes ban on *!*i=opera@* 24 05:14
ThistleWebI had to wait until he was kicked before to copy the command into my ignore listAug 24 05:14
ThistleWebeven then he was still showingAug 24 05:14
fewahmm in xchat there is a auto mask if you just use the persons nickAug 24 05:14
ThistleWebit looks more precise now thoughAug 24 05:14
ThistleWebI was reluctant to ban all opera, or all dynamic comcast IPs before, is IN, Indiana?Aug 24 05:15
fewaopera is a nameAug 24 05:15
fewawell i guess opera browser IRC from that netmaskAug 24 05:16
ThistleWebnormally it'd be India, but I doubt comcast opperate thereAug 24 05:16
fewais opera users in indianaAug 24 05:16
ThistleWebyep it'll be the default opera irc nameAug 24 05:16
ThistleWebwhich can't number that many to be fairAug 24 05:16
ThistleWebbut it's the principleAug 24 05:16
twitterThere is no privacy in Windows.  M$ now has it sending encrypted data back to themselves.Aug 24 05:16
ThistleWebnot only that, but they don't let anyone see the code that's doing itAug 24 05:17
fewaAnd if you block it it reverts to its default of assuming you are a criminalAug 24 05:17
ThistleWebcomparing to canonical is nonsense, since almost everything they do can be examined and modified if need beAug 24 05:18
twitterI do not understand why people use Windows.Aug 24 05:18
fewayep, trollingAug 24 05:18
fewaCanonical data is fully option, and fully publicAug 24 05:18
fewaas is the option Fedora system information, and the Linux oops projectAug 24 05:19
ThistleWeball I've seen him do tonight is act like a MS employee, fending off any criticism with bullshitAug 24 05:19
ThistleWebif he's not being paid for his efforts maybe he should beAug 24 05:19
Diablo-D3hes not very good at itAug 24 05:19
ThistleWebso he fits with the same quality control that MS is famous forAug 24 05:20
ThistleWebthey're not very good at anything, just persistantAug 24 05:20
twitterArs dissects ATT and Apple nonsense about VOIP 24 05:20
fewameh hes been doing this foreverAug 24 05:21
fewa2009 May 30 02:17:59  PDT<DaemonFC>Office feels more solid, but I can definitely see why a lot of users would cheap out and use OOo with the OOXML support pluginAug 24 05:21
ThistleWebwhy does he keep getting fresh chances here?Aug 24 05:22
ThistleWebpersonally I wouldn't let him back in at allAug 24 05:22
ThistleWebit's one thing to have a bad day and get drawn into an argumentAug 24 05:23
ThistleWebhe does seem rather persistent, not only with the tech stuff, but with some rather right wing, political, social rasict etc views aimed to stir people upAug 24 05:24
ThistleWebanyone who persists in trying to get in somewhere they KNOW they're not wanted suggests to me they either have no life or get some benefit from causing repeated disruptionAug 24 05:26
twitterHelios gets punched by crappy US insurance and health care scams. 24 05:26
twitteron suing M$ astroturfers 24 06:01
twitterastroturfers would like to hide behind "trash talk" and "opinion" but the thrust of their attacks are that the target is dishonest, incompetent and otherwise less than trust worthy - serious libel, especially when done for money by a PR firm.Aug 24 06:03
twitterIt is a shame, but not surprising,  that lawsuits like this are aimed at Google instead of M$ friendly ISPs or telcomsAug 24 06:05
ThistleWebmaybe I need a better fitting tinfoil hat, but I don't see anything MS related in that storyAug 24 06:05
fewatwitter, also fraud and mis-representationAug 24 06:06
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tessierThistleWeb: Make it tight enough and you'll see whatever you want to seeAug 24 07:07
tessiertwitter: What makes Helios and open source hero? I recently stumbled across his blog but I am not familiar with his deeds.Aug 24 07:07
tessiera/and/an/Aug 24 07:07
ThistleWebindeedAug 24 07:19
ThistleWebthat's the problem when you try to link everything, however makes the genuine links look like part of the same blunderbus attackAug 24 07:21
ThistleWebit makes you look obsessedAug 24 07:22
ThistleWebit makes you look like you're trying to through enough allegations about in the hopes that some will stick, not unlike what MS and their astroturf army do to usAug 24 07:24
fewaThats why there is this things called factsAug 24 07:27
fewa*these thingsAug 24 07:27
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amarsh04one has to love our local coverage of the release of the convicted Lockerbie bomber... the .au reporter has a decidedly Scottish accentAug 24 09:55
Diablo-D3lolAug 24 09:56
schestowitzSobering Reminder for Retailers of Need for Compliance/Security Updates? 24 10:02
amarsh04transcripts later tonight at 24 10:06
amarsh04credit card skimming is alive and well locally: 24 10:11
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Seems personal radio doofer refuses to play if i have adblockplus enabled. How many other sites will detect and degrade like this.Aug 24 11:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Fancy making a home made . Cardboard, two bits of glass and some gaffer tape?Aug 24 11:21
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 24 12:43:08 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 24 12:43
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Aug 24 12:43
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 18:24:05 2009Aug 24 12:43
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 24 12:43
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! 24 12:43
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 24 12:43
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Tech support cheat sheet 24 13:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: The Universe as seen from the music industry. 24 13:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Biggest anticlimax in a song intro. Got to be 'One Night In Bangkok (CHESS) - Murry Head' ?Aug 24 13:11
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Come _on_ Home Delivery Network Ltd - deliver my new webcam.. it left Reading at 08:30.. is it coming here via avian carrier..Aug 24 13:33
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fewaschestowitz, ahh, now I can think of why would use <meta> redirectsAug 24 13:51
fewaits so they can use cookies to track peopleAug 24 13:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Presentation of Georg Jacob at Froscon about software patents: 24 14:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Suggestions for where to buy small mirrors, like 4x3"? Could get a glass cutter I guess, rather not.Aug 24 14:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wow, loads of great suggestions, thanks @spode @ColinMacD @opensourcerer @DG_Jones @markphelan !Aug 24 14:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @popey not sure, but I think a wet stone tile cutter might work too if you have that...Aug 24 14:30
schestowitzfewa: I don't use em by choiceAug 24 14:45
fewawell this was mainly academicAug 24 14:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Baddies prefer Firefox and Opera : 24 14:53
trmanco 24 15:17
trmancoanother ms product diesAug 24 15:17
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Oooo logitech quickcam pro 9000 has arrived!Aug 24 15:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @beuno Someone was just reunited with their long-lost father through Launchpad Answers. O.M.G.Aug 24 15:36
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schestowitzretaAug 24 18:00
schestowitztrmanco: thanksAug 24 18:00
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schestowitzGood newsAug 24 18:09
schestowitzWe've got the full 83-page exhibits transcribedAug 24 18:09
schestowitzMicrosogt smoking gunAug 24 18:09
amarsh04exhibits for what? Comes vs Microsoft or something else?Aug 24 18:12
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] going to pembury this evening @arkadyrose and freda. just because we can. anyone else?Aug 24 18:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Just got a 83-page smoking gun from Microsoft transcribed. This should be fun -- Microsoft talks about bribing.Aug 24 18:34
neighborleeoh this  a case of google getting too big for its britches or what..or some really uniformed employee taking power into their own stunning indeedAug 24 18:35
neighborleeI could have  seen doing something IF someones life was at risk..from this it just seems a stinging opinionAug 24 18:36
DaemonFCneighborlee: Did you hear that the skank is now suing Google for $15 million?Aug 24 18:38
neighborleeI hope she winsAug 24 18:38
DaemonFCI hope she gets to eat shit and dieAug 24 18:38
DaemonFCpersonallyAug 24 18:38
schestowitzSo We Got Hacked < >Aug 24 18:38
schestowitzPoor dudesAug 24 18:38
neighborleewwwwwwell..:) injustice was serviced yes..Aug 24 18:39
schestowitzGood site, why did vandals hit it?Aug 24 18:39
DaemonFCshe needs to grow upAug 24 18:39
schestowitzDaemonFC: 18 mil???Aug 24 18:39
schestowitzHaha.Aug 24 18:39
schestowitzShe got free publicity just from the whole thingAug 24 18:39
schestowitzAnd she ain't hot, either.Aug 24 18:39
neighborleeim talking about port..imho she was the  one wronged hereAug 24 18:40
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DaemonFCit's not Google's fault that some guy started a blog on their service and insulted herAug 24 18:40
schestowitzStupid "Skank" 24 18:40
DaemonFCand they should not be required to out a blogger jsut because someone asksAug 24 18:40
neighborleethast not what happenedAug 24 18:40
neighborleegogled gave away ports privacyAug 24 18:40
DaemonFCthey should only turn over that info with a court orderAug 24 18:40
neighborleeand im not seeing any good reason for having done soAug 24 18:41
DaemonFCoh, I got that backwards thenAug 24 18:41
neighborleeno ones life was in jeopardy. or so goes the reportAug 24 18:41
neighborleeyupAug 24 18:41
schestowitz"The case erupted last week after the Manhattan Supreme Court ruled that Google must hand over the identity of the writer, who had targeted 36-year-old model Liskula Cohen online and called her a "psychotic, lying, whoring... skank". Aug 24 18:41
schestowitzOh waitAug 24 18:41
schestowitzSo there are TWO casesAug 24 18:41
schestowitzNot the same oneAug 24 18:42
DaemonFCahhhAug 24 18:42
neighborleehmAug 24 18:42
DaemonFCthey're both suing then?Aug 24 18:42
schestowitzNoAug 24 18:42
schestowitzNot that I know ofAug 24 18:42
schestowitzThe other one had Google expose the bloggersAug 24 18:42
schestowitzThis one is differentAug 24 18:42
DaemonFCwell if they did it without a court order, I'd say the blogger has a pretty solid caseAug 24 18:43
schestowitzThis one is a Port, not CohenAug 24 18:43
DaemonFCbut who knows, since there was an orderAug 24 18:43
schestowitzOh waitAug 24 18:43
DaemonFCwas it on Google to fight it?Aug 24 18:43
schestowitzOh.....Aug 24 18:43
schestowitzI catch up nowAug 24 18:43
schestowitzPort is the defamerAug 24 18:43
schestowitzIf anyone should sue, it's the defamed modelAug 24 18:44
schestowitz"Google is being sued for $15 million (£9 million) by a blogger, Rosemary Port, whose details were released after Liskula Cohen, a Vogue cover girl, was smeared as a "skank" on the internet. "Aug 24 18:44
schestowitz 24 18:44
neighborlee < thats the one I readAug 24 18:45
schestowitzIt's good publicity for that mode... she's not that great-looking anywayAug 24 18:45
schestowitzWithout this fiasco, people would not know herAug 24 18:45
neighborleeno ones life was should have resissted imhoAug 24 18:46
DaemonFCwhy do people feel the need to take a Linux distribution that already has in excess of 5,000 seeders from the real tracker and make their own torrent that has one seeder (them) and pollute other trackers?Aug 24 18:52
schestowitzWoW players cautioned < >Aug 24 18:52
DaemonFCand if thy must spam, can't they at least reseed?Aug 24 18:52
DaemonFC*theyAug 24 18:52
schestowitzDaemonFC: you can't "pollute"trackersAug 24 18:52
DaemonFCthey could easily just submit the original torrent to the new trackerAug 24 18:53
DaemonFCidiotsAug 24 18:53
DaemonFCwhy does Demonoid need a torrent for every version of every Linux distro ever released when the project site's torrent has enough trackers to easily sustain a download at your maximum connection speed at any given time?Aug 24 18:54
DaemonFCerrrAug 24 18:54
DaemonFCenough seedersAug 24 18:54
schestowitz Well, thank goodness it's.. Monday?Aug 24 18:54
DaemonFCI mean seriously, the last time I downloaded a linux ISO off a torrent, I think I was pulling it in at like 2 MB/secAug 24 18:55
schestowitzWhy do YOU mind?Aug 24 18:55
schestowitzYou're a WIndows userAug 24 18:55
DaemonFCbecause they crap up the index of new torrentsAug 24 18:55
schestowitzHave a nice cup of MSDNAug 24 18:55
schestowitz[and STFU :-p]Aug 24 18:55
DaemonFCI think I'll flag it inappropriateAug 24 18:56
schestowitzHaha. 24 18:57
schestowitz"A little history: Port's blog uses Google's Blogger software.  Port used her blog to call model Liskula Cohen a skank.  Cohen then sued in order to find out who was behind the insult, and following a legal skirmish, a federal judge forced Google to hand over the relevant information."Aug 24 18:57
schestowitzSo Google was sud TWICEAug 24 18:57
schestowitzIs IS the model who cried like a baby and sued GoogleAug 24 18:57
schestowitzI have people spread libel about me. It doesn't mean I run to Google suing.Aug 24 18:57
schestowitzThat model needs to grow a knob or somehtingAug 24 18:58
DaemonFCbecause you'd have to prove you were harmed and that the information was not only false, but provably soAug 24 18:58
DaemonFChence, no caseAug 24 18:58
schestowitzMicrohoo may still get derailed. 24 18:59
DaemonFCif I get on my blog because McDonalds hamburgers are contaminated with cyanide and they lose $10 billion and it was true and I could prove it, it's not libelAug 24 18:59
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*Daemon*i*@* 24 18:59
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*i=none@* 24 18:59
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzAug 24 19:00
DaemonFCyou're probably lucky that Novell and Microsoft don't consider you worth suingAug 24 19:00
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schestowitzThey would need to find false infomationAug 24 19:00
schestowitzI do cite sources from the pressAug 24 19:01
DaemonFCthey don't actually have to prove anything, they could just run you into the poor houseAug 24 19:01
schestowitzThe rest if opinion and described as suchAug 24 19:01
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schestowitzDaemonFC: bad PR for them and Streisand EffectAug 24 19:01
DaemonFCyeah, that's probably why they don'tAug 24 19:01
DaemonFCthey'd just give you attentionAug 24 19:02
schestowitzIt's not done, generally. look at the relationship b/w Groklaw and SCOAug 24 19:02
schestowitzThey'd rather just smear the site from the outsideAug 24 19:02
schestowitzMicrosoft and Novell employees smear BNAug 24 19:02
schestowitzANd meAug 24 19:02
DaemonFCthe people at Ubuntu Forums do not like youAug 24 19:02
schestowitzWHo's "people"?Aug 24 19:02
DaemonFCthere was a huge post about that with tons of repliesAug 24 19:02
DaemonFCwell, easily dozens, and that was the last time I lookedAug 24 19:03
schestowitzThere are Novell employees in places and there is disinformation.Aug 24 19:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: yeah, like those in Reddit who don't like me... tturned out to be Novell employeesAug 24 19:03
schestowitzThey are more annoyed by some zealots who try to associated themselves with BNAug 24 19:04
schestowitzTHey do more harm than goodAug 24 19:04
schestowitzFacebook May Expand Staff by 50%, Zuckerberg Says < >Aug 24 19:04
DaemonFCschestowitz: 24 19:05
DaemonFCthe distro maintainers also cited you in their official position on MonoAug 24 19:05
DaemonFClet me see if I can find that againAug 24 19:05
schestowitzWhy on Earth is Nokia using Windows?Aug 24 19:06
schestowitz 24 19:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: you show me Linsux peopleAug 24 19:06
schestowitzI don't care if an anti-Linux site hates meAug 24 19:06
schestowitzThe more the betterAug 24 19:06
schestowitzIf anti-Linux people hate BN, then it implies BN is good for LinuxAug 24 19:07
schestowitzMy stalkers love participating in such threats to poison other people against meAug 24 19:07
DaemonFC 24 19:08
schestowitzMr. PsychopathAug 24 19:08
DaemonFC"It is common practice in the software industry to register patents as protection against litigation, rather than as an intent to litigate. Thus mere existence of a patent, without a claim of infringement, is not sufficient reason to warrant exclusion from the Ubuntu Project."Aug 24 19:08
schestowitzdirecthexAug 24 19:08
schestowitzI've seen enoughAug 24 19:08
neighborleewho cares if ubuntu people dont like him..fanboiitis apparantly isn't a prerequisite to logical thinking ;)Aug 24 19:08
schestowitzThe usual Mono/anti-Linux folksAug 24 19:08
schestowitzneighborlee: it's not "Ubuntu people"Aug 24 19:08
schestowitzIt's Mono peopleAug 24 19:08
neighborleeI know,,Aug 24 19:08
schestowitzand anti-LinuxAug 24 19:08
schestowitzI know the namesAug 24 19:08
neighborleeim just making a generic replyAug 24 19:08
DaemonFCso in other words, Ubuntu will happily ship patent infringing code until we're actually threatened and it's too late, kthxbaiAug 24 19:09
schestowitzI've read enough for years to know some peopleAug 24 19:09
DaemonFCthey act as if the fact that they've shipped it thus far without being threatened or sued protects them from such a claim laterAug 24 19:09
schestowitzWith all these smears against us, more people  still choose to read and participateAug 24 19:09
schestowitzThe trolling reduced comments cause registration is a must nowAug 24 19:10
neighborleeif obama and health care reform,,'cared' about republicans making 'killl grandma' comments..OMgosh they might stop health care reform due to certain public outcry..but we all know its zealot lead by those    likely in health care companies/lobbyists opposing   it in favor of greed ;)Aug 24 19:10
schestowitzBut we have IRCAug 24 19:10
neighborleeso its a 'duh' moment :)Aug 24 19:10
neighborleemaybe slightly OT, but you GOTTA see this: 24 19:11
neighborleelook out data ;))Aug 24 19:11
schestowitzApple Cillusions 24 19:11
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schestowitz*coAug 24 19:11
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schestowitzBrocade results disappoint Wall Street < >Aug 24 19:13
DaemonFCWindows 7 has even more bizarre services that do weird thingsAug 24 19:13
DaemonFCand why in the hell do they still have the NetBIOS helper service running?Aug 24 19:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Microsoft product dies. 24 19:16
schestowitzNew cops get new toy. 24 19:17
DaemonFCit says the commercial version of it is not going to be removedAug 24 19:17
DaemonFCbusinesses have always been more receptive to "software as a service"Aug 24 19:17
DaemonFCit's even how they "buy" LinuxAug 24 19:17
schestowitzVista 7 is dead, DaemonFC Aug 24 19:17
schestowitzIt died some monthsAug 24 19:18
schestowitzIt died some months agoAug 24 19:18
schestowitzPeople found out the truthAug 24 19:18
DaemonFCit does use far less RAM than VistaAug 24 19:18
DaemonFCI've noticed thatAug 24 19:18
DaemonFCpart of that seems to come from selective starting and stopping of system servicesAug 24 19:19
DaemonFCeven network servicesAug 24 19:19
DaemonFCwhich has a tendency to knock you offlineAug 24 19:19
DaemonFCyou have to go disable them or set them to "automatic" start like they used to beAug 24 19:19
schestowitz 24 19:19
schestowitz 24 19:19
schestowitz 24 19:19
schestowitz 24 19:20
schestowitzHaha. 24 19:20
schestowitzI like The Register's attitudeAug 24 19:21
DaemonFClmfaoAug 24 19:21
schestowitz"Cohen responded by filing a defamation suit in Manhattan Supreme Court, in the hope of finding out who was behind the outrage. The court obliged, rejecting Port's defence that blogs "serve as a modern-day forum for conveying personal opinions, including invective and ranting", and therefore shouldn't be regarded as fact."Aug 24 19:21
schestowitzSee how they work?Aug 24 19:21
schestowitzDon't ask questions. Just sue away.Aug 24 19:21
schestowitzChilds: 24 19:22
schestowitzLeave him aloneAug 24 19:22
schestowitzWaste of taxpayers' money going after someone like ChildsAug 24 19:23
schestowitzThey should aim for the white-collar criminals in some offending companiesAug 24 19:23
DaemonFCWell that was pretty ####### disappointing...We could have rooted it with any one of various ####### kernel 0days but the idea of losing one while rooting these ##### was too much to bear.Aug 24 19:23
DaemonFCcoolAug 24 19:23
schestowitz Why WInders?Aug 24 19:24
DaemonFCthat's why it amuses me when Torvalds plays off local root access vulnerabilities as "Well, you have to be standing at the machine...."Aug 24 19:24
DaemonFChe damned well has to know you don'tAug 24 19:24
DaemonFCyou just need to compromise something running on that machine, like say, about any networked program, like Apache?Aug 24 19:25
schestowitzGoldman Sachs (Allegedly) Promotes Terrorism < >Aug 24 19:25
schestowitzHahaha!Aug 24 19:25
schestowitz"I won't call Lloyd Blankfein a skank. But I will point to awfully suspicious circumstances that may show full support of terrorism. Why not? It's just money."Aug 24 19:25
DaemonFCa local privilege elevation isn't automatically a remote vulnerability but it can be used on top of oneAug 24 19:26
DaemonFCso I really think he's doing Linux users a disservice by trying to downplay themAug 24 19:26
schestowitz"Well that's why they are on top, it's because they are clever! (that's a complement, not slander, FYI in case the Goldman rats are watching. muahz)"Aug 24 19:26
schestowitzI like this themeAug 24 19:26
DaemonFCGordon Gekko AKA Goldman Sachs?Aug 24 19:26
schestowitzBus Bombings Kill At Least 11 In Iraq < >Aug 24 19:27
DaemonFCyeah, the problem is that even after the Savings & Loan fraud in the 1980s, when it was plastered all over the news just how easy the system is to manipulate, the Republicans made sure to destroy even more of the regulation that kept that problem even somewhat containedAug 24 19:28
DaemonFC20 years later you get the housing bubble and crashAug 24 19:28
DaemonFCand the splash damage kills a good number of retirement accountsAug 24 19:29
schestowitzIt goes decades backAug 24 19:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: don't worry about  retirement accountsAug 24 19:29
DaemonFCowned by people who were unaware that the broker even stuffed their 401k full of toxic house mortgagesAug 24 19:29
schestowitzGive em some tobaccoAug 24 19:29
schestowitz"Oops. Your pension got a foreclosure. Sorry..."Aug 24 19:30
DaemonFCit was basically a carefully constructed daylight theft of not only millions of people's retirement accounts, but also the wholesale victimization of the poor and lower middle classAug 24 19:30
schestowitzI have press releases about speakers... like anyone gives a blip. 24 19:30
schestowitz 24 19:30
schestowitzThis means they lack enwsAug 24 19:31
schestowitzIt's summer... it's second great depression... no-one attends confs.. so they make noise about speakersAug 24 19:31
schestowitz401k becomes just 401Aug 24 19:31
schestowitzAnd 2 centsAug 24 19:32
DaemonFCthen the same people that took the lion's share of the financial beating still vote RepublicanAug 24 19:32
DaemonFCbecause of their Christian Values frontAug 24 19:32
DaemonFC:DAug 24 19:32
DaemonFCsingle issue voters are the worst kind of people in my opinionAug 24 19:33
DaemonFCthey're the easiest to manipulateAug 24 19:33
DaemonFCin it you have the "abortion rights" groups, the "anti-abortion" groups, the "gay marriage" voters, the "Jesus told me to hate you" votersAug 24 19:34
DaemonFCand the ones that vote for the guy who promises to give them the biggest "tax refund" while we're running on borrowed Chinese moneyAug 24 19:34
DaemonFCthose are basically the timeless hits of American politicsAug 24 19:35
DaemonFCnot just American politics though, the politics of anyone who ever had anything to do with the BritishAug 24 19:35
DaemonFCyou'll see the same sort of political blight everywhere that's been touched by the Christian churchAug 24 19:36
DaemonFCthe Protestants just put a new spin on itAug 24 19:37
DaemonFCschestowitz: Did you know that GOD personally said that I have a right to keep all my money?Aug 24 19:38
DaemonFCit's in the ConstitutionAug 24 19:38
DaemonFC:PAug 24 19:38
DaemonFCthat's why taxes are bad, God wants me to have all my moneyAug 24 19:38
DaemonFC(except the 10% that goes to the church)Aug 24 19:38
schestowitzYikes. 24 19:38
DaemonFCwhere did the 10% figure come from anyway?Aug 24 19:38
schestowitzWell, they don't pay taxesAug 24 19:39
DaemonFCI can go through my federal, state, and local taxes and it's still not as much as what the church would want from me every yearAug 24 19:39
schestowitzSacred things get good treatment and can't be criticisedAug 24 19:39
schestowitzIt's not like football teams and politicsAug 24 19:39
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DaemonFCthe church wants more of your income than the US governmentAug 24 19:40
Omar87HoAug 24 19:40
Omar87Hi*Aug 24 19:40
DaemonFCwhy aren't people angry about that?Aug 24 19:40
DaemonFC:DAug 24 19:40
schestowitzWhat does it do with the money?Aug 24 19:40
schestowitzDo more pew?Aug 24 19:40
DaemonFCnot paying the government has the very real consequences of being put in jailAug 24 19:40
DaemonFCnot paying the church just gets you vague threats of eternal damnationAug 24 19:40
Omar87Is it true that Red Hat have some closed parts of their code?Aug 24 19:41
DaemonFCOmar87: No.Aug 24 19:41
DaemonFCyou can't use their name or their logosAug 24 19:41
DaemonFCthe rest of the distribution is provided in source RPMsAug 24 19:41
Omar87DaemonFC: Yeah, I know.Aug 24 19:41
DaemonFCRed Hat is not selling you their distribution, they're selling support contractsAug 24 19:42
DaemonFCthe actual code for their distribution can be reassembled just as quickly as they update the source RPMs and you build themAug 24 19:43
DaemonFCCentOS often suffers a lag in security patches cause of that btwAug 24 19:43
Omar87DaemonFC: But I meant the code itself. Some people are trying their best convince me that Red Hat, despite all their achievements in the open source industry, they still hold some parts of their distro as proprietary closed-source.Aug 24 19:43
DaemonFCof at least a day or two after they're applied to RHELAug 24 19:43
DaemonFCnot true, just name and artwork, those are trademarksAug 24 19:44
amd-linuxApple os obviously sabotaging Linux: 24 19:44
amd-linux"os"="is"Aug 24 19:45
amd-linuxTrailers used to work for meAug 24 19:45
amd-linuxnot now anymoreAug 24 19:45
DaemonFCthat's because they don't want you using VLC's sorenson video codecAug 24 19:45
DaemonFCor Quicktime AlternativeAug 24 19:45
amd-linuxis there a QT codec for Linux?Aug 24 19:46
amd-linuxNo.Aug 24 19:46
DaemonFCofficially, noAug 24 19:46
DaemonFCthe official codecs are for Windows and OS XAug 24 19:46
amd-linuxApple is behsvng more and more like MSFTAug 24 19:46
amd-linuxbehavingAug 24 19:46
Omar87amd-linux: You can't blame them. To them, Linux is a threat.Aug 24 19:47
amd-linuxCompetition is always a threat. So yes, I do blame them.Aug 24 19:47
DaemonFCApple and Microsoft would rather compete with each otherAug 24 19:47
Omar87amd-linux: I think it's up to the Linux community/ecosystem to decide how compete back.Aug 24 19:48
amd-linuxThis kind of behaviour is not only chuldishAug 24 19:48
DaemonFCthat's why they always port their software between OS X and WindowsAug 24 19:48
amd-linuxbut also against anything that made the internet to what it is nowAug 24 19:48
schestowitzNew NASA rocket fuel 'could be made on Moon, Mars' < >Aug 24 19:49
Omar87amd-linux: True. But saying that to MS and Apple is just as good as telling a lumberjack that cutting trees in massive amounts will harm the environment. :)Aug 24 19:50
schestowitzamarsh04: let's see....Aug 24 19:50
schestowitz*amd-linuxAug 24 19:50
schestowitzIs it just or any quicktime stream?Aug 24 19:51
amd-linuxas far as I have seen it is only apple.comAug 24 19:53
amd-linuxgot this from ubuntu planetAug 24 19:53
schestowitzJobs ought to have had a heart transplantAug 24 19:54
amd-linuxhe fell prey to the dark side of success..... he is brilliant, but using his genious the wrong way IMHOAug 24 19:56
amd-linuxthe Nokia notebook.... boy that must have been expensive to Micro-Soft....Aug 24 19:59
amd-linuxPJ seems to be quite p***ed...Aug 24 20:00
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amd-linuxin the end it does not matter.... Micro-Soft has to pay to place its OS... even its XP OS from digital stoneageAug 24 20:01
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DaemonFCerrrAug 24 20:01
DaemonFCfor some reason Opera won't connectAug 24 20:02
amd-linuxheck yeah cause you use this ' characterAug 24 20:02
amd-linuxin your nickAug 24 20:02
DaemonFCuhhm, noAug 24 20:03
amd-linuxre Nokia netbook: but we have to admit that we lost the battle - but not the war....Aug 24 20:04
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amd-linuxa Nokia netbook with Linux would have been a high profile win....Aug 24 20:04
amd-linuxDaemonFC` has changed nick to DameonFCAug 24 20:04
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DaemonFCmuch betterAug 24 20:05
DaemonFChmmm, the Silverex build of Xchat for Windows thinks I'm on VistaAug 24 20:06
DaemonFCprobably just reads the major version numberAug 24 20:06
DaemonFCFreenode was effectively bought by UbuntuAug 24 20:10
DaemonFCwhen did I miss that?Aug 24 20:10
amd-linuxhehe that was a counterstrike to the Apple tactics wre to gstreamer headers :-)Aug 24 20:11
DaemonFCit only affects videos on right?Aug 24 20:11
DaemonFCwho gives a shit? :)Aug 24 20:11
amd-linuxright as far as I know but i liked to watch the trailers over thereAug 24 20:12
DaemonFChmmmAug 24 20:12
DaemonFCyeah, every once in a while there's some oddball Quicktime video you run intoAug 24 20:12
DaemonFCused to be worseAug 24 20:12
DaemonFCalso, you used to need the real Quicktime installed to watch them, which came in and tried to take over your computerAug 24 20:13
amd-linuxbut so obviously blocking Linux users is a new quality in the game, from apple....Aug 24 20:13
DaemonFCWindows Media Player 12 natively supports themAug 24 20:14
DaemonFCas well as DivX, h.264, AAC, and a bunch of other stuffAug 24 20:14
DaemonFCso Quicktime on Windows is no longer really ever needed anywayAug 24 20:15
amd-linuxthat wont help me here....Aug 24 20:15
schestowitzAvahi (Zeroconf) on Linux: What is it Good For? < > She makes the most boring articles everAug 24 20:16
amd-linux100% windows free since..... I forgotAug 24 20:16
amd-linux@schestowitz lolAug 24 20:16
DaemonFCisn't Avahi kind of like UPNP?Aug 24 20:17
schestowitzamd-linux: what's this thing about battle and PJ?Aug 24 20:17
schestowitzLinux is poised to gain on ARMAug 24 20:18
schestowitzNokia did a collab with IntelAug 24 20:18
schestowitzAnd then with MicrosoftAug 24 20:18
schestowitzThis month evenAug 24 20:18
MinceRthe part of avahi i know about is for choosing ip addresses on a subnet with no DHCP serverAug 24 20:18
schestowitzSo it was expectedAug 24 20:18
DaemonFCin fact, you're best off not to install anything Apple makes on WindowsAug 24 20:18
schestowitzLinux does very well.Aug 24 20:18
MinceR(in other words, pretty useless :> )Aug 24 20:18
schestowitzNokia is lostAug 24 20:18
schestowitzHas been for yeras nowAug 24 20:18
MinceRafaik nokia is moving to gnu/linux nowAug 24 20:18
schestowitzJust trying grab lots of stuff liie Symbian and trolltechAug 24 20:18
DaemonFCApple software has frequently been known to open up security holes and even prevent Windows from bootingAug 24 20:18
MinceRalso, you're best off not using anything crApple makesAug 24 20:18
MinceR 24 20:19
amd-linux@roy: I was talking about the Nokia netbookAug 24 20:19
DaemonFCApple doesn't bother with patching their own OS in a timely manner, much less Windows ports of their softwareAug 24 20:19
schestowitzI knowAug 24 20:19
amd-linuxit was supposed to come with LinuxAug 24 20:19
schestowitzNot reallyAug 24 20:19
amd-linuxbut came with Win XPAug 24 20:19
schestowitzThey do tablets with LinuxAug 24 20:19
schestowitzWindows is freeAug 24 20:19
schestowitzRemember:Aug 24 20:20
DaemonFCBonjour stopped Vista with SP2 from booting up for about a month before Apple bothered to fix thatAug 24 20:20
MinceRthere's a nokia netbook now?Aug 24 20:20
schestowitzLinux vs Windows = same priceAug 24 20:20
amd-linuxyeah but they have no GSM connectivity which renders them uselessAug 24 20:20
DaemonFCSafari caused the carpet bombing exploit last yearAug 24 20:20
amd-linuxhere in germany you now get a GSM flat rate for 10 Euros / monthAug 24 20:20
schestowitzNoAug 24 20:20
schestowitz2 yeras agoAug 24 20:20
schestowitzOr moreAug 24 20:20
DaemonFCMay of 2008Aug 24 20:21
DaemonFCand it took them a long time just to patch it, never admitting faultAug 24 20:21
DaemonFCthey never admit the damage their software does to WindowsAug 24 20:21
MinceRthey never admit any damage their products causeAug 24 20:21
MinceR(see also: exploding hypePhones)Aug 24 20:22
amd-linuxtheir meamo MIDs are not worth the money as the need WLAN for internet connectivity...Aug 24 20:22
amd-linuxMaemoAug 24 20:22
MinceRthat's what the N900 is supposed to fixAug 24 20:22
amd-linuxhopefully.... I need unwatched Internet in the offcieAug 24 20:23
amd-linuxofficeAug 24 20:23
DaemonFCMinceR: My biggest Apple facepalm moment was when I saw the sticker they put on every ipodAug 24 20:24
schestowitzamd-linux: chee up re NokiaAug 24 20:24
DaemonFC"Don't steal music"Aug 24 20:24
MinceRlolAug 24 20:24
schestowitzThey do phonesAug 24 20:24
schestowitzThey'll bomb in netbooksAug 24 20:24
schestowitzEsp. with Xp-peeAug 24 20:24
amd-linuxI think so tooAug 24 20:24
schestowitzThey also do tabletsAug 24 20:24
schestowitzBut it's fractionalAug 24 20:24
schestowitzThey experimentAug 24 20:24
schestowitzSo fat w/o successAug 24 20:24
amd-linuxan MID like the N810 with GSM would be  akillerAug 24 20:24
schestowitzThey can't sell phone too well anymoreAug 24 20:25
schestowitz*phonesAug 24 20:25
schestowitzDaemonFC: you can't steal musicAug 24 20:25
schestowitzThat would require blanking people's brainsAug 24 20:25
schestowitzThe SOveits experimented with it back in the days of the Cold War and the US did tooAug 24 20:26
DaemonFCschestowitz: I used to sing in the shower and make mp3s out of itAug 24 20:26
DaemonFCput it in a limewire share folderAug 24 20:26
DaemonFCgood timesAug 24 20:26
amd-linux@DeamonFC: Holy crap!!!!Aug 24 20:26
schestowitzYou killed limewireAug 24 20:26
MinceRDaemonFC is the cancer that's killing limewire? :>Aug 24 20:27
MinceR(obligatory /b/ reference)Aug 24 20:27
DaemonFCnah, I just detest LimewireAug 24 20:27
schestowitzI never used itAug 24 20:27
schestowitzI hardly ever touched p2pAug 24 20:27
DaemonFCI don't have anything against sharing, but Limewire is godawfulAug 24 20:27
DaemonFCkiddie porn and trojan horsesAug 24 20:27
DaemonFClittered with fake mp3sAug 24 20:27
DaemonFCand WMA files containing virusesAug 24 20:28
schestowitzLOLAug 24 20:28
schestowitzCan they?Aug 24 20:28
schestowitzBuffr overflows?Aug 24 20:28
DaemonFCcan they what? Embed a virus in a WMA?Aug 24 20:28
DaemonFCof courseAug 24 20:28
DaemonFCwell, not quite, but just as goodAug 24 20:28
DaemonFCschestowitz: WMA files allow you to DRM them with the ASF wrapperAug 24 20:28
schestowitz**** rooted by "Rick Astley - never goona give you up"Aug 24 20:28
DaemonFCthe ASF wrapper contains the URL of the licensing page of the person that created the fileAug 24 20:29
MinceRi never used limewire to access gnutellaAug 24 20:29
schestowitzI don't swing with ASFAug 24 20:29
DaemonFCwhen you open a WMA that's been DRM'd, Windows Media Player would open the "author's" site in an embedded IE 6 windowAug 24 20:29
schestowitzNor wm*Aug 24 20:29
schestowitzIE6Aug 24 20:29
DaemonFCwhich would use a browser exploit to launch a spyware installerAug 24 20:29
schestowitzGod have mercy!Aug 24 20:29
amd-linux:-)Aug 24 20:30
DaemonFCor just sign the spyware installed as "Click here to get the license to play this music"Aug 24 20:30
DaemonFClolAug 24 20:30
MinceRlolAug 24 20:30
*_goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 24 20:30
schestowitzHey, _goblin Aug 24 20:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Piratebay sunk? –a look at F.A.C.T and is piracy good for Microsoft? #microsoft #windows #linux #piracy #tpb #factAug 24 20:30
DaemonFCso if you couldn't manage to find an IE exploit, then you could always fall back to social engineeringAug 24 20:30
DaemonFCthe signing only costs you $200Aug 24 20:30
schestowitz_goblin: Aug 24 20:30
schestowitz 24 20:30
schestowitzBrits got burned by Conficker in hospitalsAug 24 20:31
schestowitzThis is like the 5th conficker incident I've heard of in UK-based hopistalsAug 24 20:31
DaemonFCschestowitz: There were also spyware installers that you "had to run" to "install" the music filesAug 24 20:31
schestowitzamd-linux: does the press in Germany have similar stories?Aug 24 20:31
_goblinIll take a look Roy, thanks.Aug 24 20:31
DaemonFCI ran into one on bittorrent and couldn't find that album anywhere elseAug 24 20:31
schestowitzPeople are dying because of WIndows. This is serious stuff.Aug 24 20:31
DaemonFCso I opened the installer with 7zip and extracted the music filesAug 24 20:32
DaemonFC:)Aug 24 20:32
DaemonFCall kinds of bad stuff in there, but the MP3 files were of decent quality :PAug 24 20:32
amd-linuxif you mean with regard to conficker results: not that I remember themAug 24 20:32
_goblinNHS with Microsoft software running it is a little like playing a game of Theme Hospital.Aug 24 20:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: I should write a gag plugin to Sims HospitalAug 24 20:33
amd-linuxbut I know it from the birth of my children that we also have Windows in the hospitals :-(((((((((Aug 24 20:33
DaemonFCwhere one of the things that can happen is a conficker infestation that crashes the life support system and kills your patientsAug 24 20:34
amd-linuxthose systems currently are not running Windows fortunatelyAug 24 20:34
_goblinDaemonFC: I wouldnt Microsoft says "It will be better next time"Aug 24 20:34
DaemonFCthey always brag about their "ongoing security improvements" with statistical data showing less malware infestations with every version of Windows and at every service pack levelAug 24 20:35
amd-linuxlife support systems run usually something like QNS, RTOS or elseAug 24 20:35
amd-linuxQNXAug 24 20:35
DaemonFCbut less infestations is not "no infestations"Aug 24 20:35
_goblinDaemonFC: You need to make up your mind, yesterday you were championing MS today you are slating them.Aug 24 20:36
DaemonFCso instead of a billion infected systems, you get 500 millionAug 24 20:36
DaemonFCit usually is something stupid the user doesAug 24 20:36
DaemonFCit would be nice if Microsoft could integrate Security EssentialsAug 24 20:36
DaemonFCbut they would run the antivirus cartel out of businessAug 24 20:36
DaemonFCand have them bitching to the EUAug 24 20:36
amd-linuxNO it would be nicer if MS would go out of business soon!Aug 24 20:37
amd-linuxthey are a pest to mankind with their crap products....Aug 24 20:37
amd-linuxand Gate's wet phantasies to rule the worldAug 24 20:38
_goblinDaemonFC: I believe the majority of MS faithful on the net are proprietary firms dependent on Windows selling....dont knock your allies.Aug 24 20:39
schestowitzZemlin pimps IDC. 24 20:39
DaemonFCunfortunately we have Justin Frankel to blame for GnutellaAug 24 20:40
schestowitz> Aug 24 20:40
schestowitz<_goblin> DaemonFC: I wouldnt Microsoft says "It will be better next time"Aug 24 20:40
schestowitzIf there is anyAug 24 20:40
DaemonFC(the network Limewire uses)Aug 24 20:40
amd-linuxLinus might blame me but MSFT=MON=XE (aka Blackwater)Aug 24 20:40
DaemonFCGnutella is a scourgeAug 24 20:40
DaemonFCyou're comparing Microsoft to Blackwater?Aug 24 20:41
DaemonFCthat's a stretchAug 24 20:41
amd-linuxforgot HALAug 24 20:41
DaemonFCI wasn't aware that Microsoft employed contract killers for the CIAAug 24 20:41
amd-linuxin their unehtical business behaviour, yes , I doAug 24 20:42
DaemonFCMicrosoft hasn't killed anyoneAug 24 20:42
amd-linuxunethicalAug 24 20:42
DaemonFCthey aren't a private army of mercenariesAug 24 20:42
amd-linuxA company never can kill anybodyAug 24 20:42
amd-linuxonly individuals canAug 24 20:42're back on side with MS then daemon...tha didnt take long.Aug 24 20:42
amd-linuxBlackwater also never killed anybodyAug 24 20:42
DaemonFCno, I said comparing them to Blackwater is stupidAug 24 20:43
schestowitz 24 20:43
amd-linuxthis is your opinion, and I accept it. But I ahve another opinionAug 24 20:43
amd-linuxhaveAug 24 20:43
schestowitz,----[ Quote ] Aug 24 20:43
schestowitz| Many of the incidents that have been reported by CfH include failure ofAug 24 20:43
schestowitz| the systems used by surgeons to see X-ray pictures on a computer screenAug 24 20:43
schestowitz| in wards and operating theatres. On some occasions the system is believedAug 24 20:43
schestowitz| to have crashed during an operation, forcing surgeons to suspend theAug 24 20:43
schestowitz| procedure while a hard copy of the X-ray is found.Aug 24 20:43
schestowitz`----Aug 24 20:43
schestowitz Aug 24 20:43
DaemonFCamd-linux: headache, aneurysmAug 24 20:43
_goblin"they aren't a private army of mercenaries" - Certainly not, mercenaries tend to be better organized and also to deliver what they promise.Aug 24 20:43
DaemonFCI don't make such distinctionsAug 24 20:43
DaemonFC:PAug 24 20:43
DaemonFC /sarcasmAug 24 20:44
DaemonFCyou're being overly dramaticAug 24 20:44
amd-linuxto make it clear: 99% of all MS employees are people like you and meAug 24 20:44
_goblinsomething you have never been guilty of Daemon?Aug 24 20:45
amd-linuxyou earning their monesAug 24 20:45
DaemonFCyou're comparing a pain in the ass that sells bad software to a private army of contract killersAug 24 20:45
amd-linuxmoneyAug 24 20:45
_goblinshall we start quoting your views from yesterday?Aug 24 20:45
amd-linuxbut their brain is rottenAug 24 20:45
amd-linuxlike MON, like XEAug 24 20:45
amd-linuxtop management I am talking, Ballmer et alAug 24 20:45
DaemonFCyou're right, Internet Explorer = Gunning down 17 civiliansAug 24 20:46
amd-linuxno, it is about ethicsAug 24 20:46
DaemonFCyou don't see that you're the one that's depraved and unethical?Aug 24 20:46
DaemonFCyou're trivializing BlackwaterAug 24 20:46
amd-linuxif MSFT would be in Blackwaters business, yes they would cover gunning down peopleAug 24 20:46
DaemonFCnice logical fallacyAug 24 20:46
_goblinamd-linux: I wouldnt bother....its like trying to have a conversation about quantum mechanics with Jar Jar Binks when talking with Daemon.Aug 24 20:47
amd-linuxyou are absolutely right that Blackwters crimes are worseAug 24 20:47
schestowitzMicrosoft talks of JihadAug 24 20:47
DaemonFCand if circles were rectangles, they'd have four pointsAug 24 20:47
DaemonFCyou're an idiotAug 24 20:47
schestowitzAnd it's Gates that stifles interopAug 24 20:47
DaemonFCjust admit itAug 24 20:47
schestowitzHe's a nasty wwasel smiling and wearing sweaters :-)Aug 24 20:47
schestowitzThe docs show thisAug 24 20:47
DaemonFCBallmer amuses meAug 24 20:47
schestowitzBig one coming this wekAug 24 20:47
_goblinschestowitz: and don't forget the MS faithful and their drones who make the same remarks.Aug 24 20:48
amd-linuxno, I want to make clear that missing ethics in business lead to bad resultsAug 24 20:48
DaemonFCamd-linux: You're trying to play connect the dotsAug 24 20:48
DaemonFCand failing miserablyAug 24 20:48
amd-linuxthe results are worse, obviously, in the case ob BlackwaterAug 24 20:48
_goblinamd-linux: look at Daemons views from yesterday.  That clearly shows what ethics he has....Aug 24 20:48
amd-linuxbut the cause is the sameAug 24 20:48
DaemonFCthe Salvation Army = BlackwaterAug 24 20:48
DaemonFCMcDonalds = BlackwaterAug 24 20:49
DaemonFCthe local supermarket is a businessAug 24 20:49
DaemonFCare they equal to Blackwater?Aug 24 20:49
_goblinShestowitz: I'm going to agree with Diablo for once.....can't we remove the troll?Aug 24 20:49
amd-linux@DeamonFC you know what I mean, they are not equalAug 24 20:49
amd-linuxbut only because they are in another businessAug 24 20:49
DaemonFCbut your town grocery store is a business, that means that they're BlackwaterAug 24 20:50
amd-linuxdont get tha5tAug 24 20:50
DaemonFCthey charge high prices, that's just like killing peopleAug 24 20:50
DaemonFCtheir produce is not as fresh as it could be, they're contract killersAug 24 20:50
cubezzz_goblin, didn't you have ops before?Aug 24 20:50
_goblinyepAug 24 20:50
amd-linuxthey are not charging high pricing, in fact we have a stiff competition here in retail grocery in germanyAug 24 20:50
_goblinevery so often when Roy is busy etc..Aug 24 20:50
_goblinIm not keen on it, but in the case of Daemon he needs to go.Aug 24 20:51
DaemonFCamd-linux:  You'd think the Germans would know something about depravityAug 24 20:51
amd-linuxlet me look up depravityAug 24 20:51
_goblinyesterday he was arguing almost the exact opposite to what he is saying now.Aug 24 20:51
DaemonFCisn't belittling or denying the holocaust a crime there?Aug 24 20:51
DaemonFCcause you're doing the same thingAug 24 20:51
_goblinDaemonFC: shut up you lowlife.Aug 24 20:51
amd-linuxdenying it is, yesAug 24 20:52
DaemonFCyou're an extremistAug 24 20:52
_goblinDaemonFC: that subject is one of the saddest moments in human history, it does not need bringing up in a tech discussion, especially by you.......Aug 24 20:52
DaemonFClooking for anything that justifies his viewsAug 24 20:52
DaemonFChe's doing the same thing as denying the holocaustAug 24 20:53
amd-linux@DeamonFC: dont get what you want to tell meAug 24 20:53
DaemonFCwhen he trivializes BlackwaterAug 24 20:53
amd-linuxAGAIN: Blackwater, Monsanto and Microsoft have one thing in commonAug 24 20:53
DaemonFCMonsanto is not Microsoft eitherAug 24 20:54
amd-linuxMISSING BUSINESS ETHICSAug 24 20:54
amd-linuxgot it?Aug 24 20:54
DaemonFCyou're a toolAug 24 20:54
DaemonFCI understand that muchAug 24 20:54
_goblinamd-linux: like I say, talking with DaemonFC is like a conversation with Jar Jar Binks.Aug 24 20:54
amd-linuxor with Elisa IIAug 24 20:54
amd-linux:-)Aug 24 20:54
_goblin:)Aug 24 20:54
DaemonFC_goblin: you can be his co-toolAug 24 20:55
_goblinDaemonFC: yep.....thanksAug 24 20:55
_goblinDaemonFC: what about his padawan, since I have started a Star Wars theme?Aug 24 20:55
amd-linuxDEamonFC = 24 20:55
DaemonFCnoAug 24 20:55
cubezzzcan't we just get back to dissing microsoft? :)Aug 24 20:55
amd-linuxroflAug 24 20:56
MinceR:DAug 24 20:56
_goblindaemon has other ideas....that is until he gets kicked.Aug 24 20:56
DaemonFCthe Jedi wouldn't make a habit out of lying to get what they wantAug 24 20:56
DaemonFCsince you started the Star Wars themeAug 24 20:56
DaemonFCand you're much too clumsy and stupid to be a SithAug 24 20:56
_goblinthats Microsofts chances out the window then. (no pun intended)Aug 24 20:56
DaemonFCso what would you be?Aug 24 20:56
DaemonFCYou'd be one of those combat droidsAug 24 20:57
DaemonFCsimple, robotic, fun to rip apart with a lightsaberAug 24 20:57
_goblinhopefully the exact opposite of whatever you are supposed to be.Aug 24 20:57
MinceRlightsabers don't rip, they cutAug 24 20:57
MinceRusuallyAug 24 20:57
amd-linuxDeamonFC: in one thing you are right: comparing bad vs very bad is difficultAug 24 20:57
MinceRwell, unless your combat droid is made of phrik alloy or something.Aug 24 20:58
MinceRor lightsaber blades. :>Aug 24 20:58
DaemonFCamd-linux: You're a nuisance, and _goblin is an outright pain in the assAug 24 20:58
DaemonFCthat wasn't difficultAug 24 20:58
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzAug 24 20:59
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 24 20:59
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to MinceRAug 24 20:59
DaemonFCMinceR:  VibrobladesAug 24 20:59
*schestowitz sets ban on *!* 24 20:59
*schestowitz has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (schestowitz)Aug 24 20:59
amd-linuxIt was just getting funny :-)Aug 24 20:59
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzAug 24 20:59
MinceR:)Aug 24 20:59
cubezzzI wasn't really sure what he was talking aboutAug 24 21:00
MinceRhe was dissing someoneAug 24 21:00
amd-linuxme neither ;-)Aug 24 21:00
*Diablo-D3 ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 24 21:00
MinceRi gathered that muchAug 24 21:00
_goblinanyway....daemonFC youve been given the role of Jar Jar you fill very well.Aug 24 21:01
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schestowitzHe'll sing the blues in the shower tonight (and make mp3s from it)Aug 24 21:01
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amd-linuxroflAug 24 21:01
amd-linuxhey, everybody likes jar jarAug 24 21:02
amd-linuxVader would have been worse....Aug 24 21:02
Diablo-D3I like this channel much more without daemon hereAug 24 21:03
amd-linuxhmmm, Diablo, you joined right after Deamon was kicked..... so how can you know?Aug 24 21:03
_goblinlolAug 24 21:04
Diablo-D3amd-linux: uh, what?Aug 24 21:04
amd-linuxif you  are not identical to DeamonFCAug 24 21:04
Diablo-D3he was banned before I went to bedAug 24 21:04
Diablo-D3who let him back in?Aug 24 21:04
amd-linuxok sorry did not know thatAug 24 21:04
cubezzzhow long does a ban last?Aug 24 21:04
Diablo-D3cubezzz: foreverAug 24 21:04
amd-linuxIP based ban lasts a few secondsAug 24 21:04
amd-linuxas long as it takes to turn of the DSL modem and turn it back onAug 24 21:05
amd-linuxoffAug 24 21:05
MinceRwe could ban by ISPAug 24 21:05
Diablo-D3amd-linux: not trueAug 24 21:05
MinceR:>Aug 24 21:05
Diablo-D3you can ban the whole subnetAug 24 21:05
Diablo-D3and isps with multiple subnets just equate to multiple bansAug 24 21:05
amd-linuxholy crap in my case thast would be quite some peopleAug 24 21:05
Diablo-D3yupAug 24 21:05
cubezzzwell, if it's a static ip...Aug 24 21:05
MinceRalso, daemons and devils (diablo) are distinct from each other ;)Aug 24 21:05
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schestowitzDemons use VistaAug 24 21:10
schestowitzDiablo uses Linux AFAIKAug 24 21:10
schestowitzVista: the OS from HellAug 24 21:11
Diablo-D3Linus: the OS from Bill Gates's own personal HellAug 24 21:11
Diablo-D3er, LinuxAug 24 21:11
schestowitzHey, what OS does steveb use? And billg?Aug 24 21:11
schestowitzI bet they might be using XPAug 24 21:11
Diablo-D3bill doesnt even use computers anymoreAug 24 21:11
schestowitzJust look at internal VIsta E-mailsAug 24 21:11
schestowitzAlso, steveb couldn't manage to fix an infected Windows machine for DAYSAug 24 21:11
MinceRbill doesn't need computers, he's a failed lawyerAug 24 21:12
Diablo-D3MinceR: not at allAug 24 21:12
schestowitzThey had to bring it in for Microsoft engineers to work on... like monkeys and lightbulbsAug 24 21:12
MinceRand ballmer probably just buys another PC when one gets infectedAug 24 21:12
Diablo-D3schestowitz: steve ballmer is kind of an idiotAug 24 21:12
cubezzzHe's crazy I'd sayAug 24 21:12
schestowitzMinceR: but he was given a university diploma many years later as honoraryAug 24 21:12
schestowitzHe was one heck of a legal dudeAug 24 21:13
Diablo-D3bill quit college to make moneyAug 24 21:13
schestowitzKnew how to break the law and get away with itAug 24 21:13
MinceRi wonder of "daemon" in this case is an alternative spelling of "demon" or the old word for neutral evil outsiders :>Aug 24 21:13
schestowitz"What do you mean by Netscape?"Aug 24 21:13
schestowitz"What do you mean by extinguish?"Aug 24 21:13
cubezzzdaemon is a Unix term isn't it?Aug 24 21:13
MinceRthat tooAug 24 21:13
MinceRprobably named after Maxwell's demonAug 24 21:14
cubezzzit's interesting that Linux caught on so much more than BSD, but BSD is actually olderAug 24 21:14
cubezzzyeah MinceR, that's what wikipedia saysAug 24 21:16
MinceRSystem V is even older :>Aug 24 21:16
cubezzzdidn't BSD come from the breakup of AT&T?Aug 24 21:16
trmanco 24 21:17
schestowitz "HTTP Server Error 503"Aug 24 21:17
MinceRi'm not sureAug 24 21:17
MinceRtrmanco: lolAug 24 21:17
trmancoahhhhhhAug 24 21:17
trmanconot againAug 24 21:17
trmancowhen will twitter learn that they need more server powerAug 24 21:17
trmancoand in various locationsAug 24 21:18
schestowitzWhen they make money maybeAug 24 21:18
schestowitzIt's a weird siteAug 24 21:18
schestowitzMany users, no incomeAug 24 21:18
schestowitzUnlike Digg evenAug 24 21:19
cubezzzwikipedia says 1977 for BSD but I am not 100% sure it was open source since 1977Aug 24 21:19
cubezzzsurely that predates Unix System VAug 24 21:19
MinceRwell, then AT&T UnixAug 24 21:19
Diablo-D3bsd is older than 1977Aug 24 21:19
cubezzz1983 for System VAug 24 21:20
schestowitzSystem viAug 24 21:20
trmanco 24 21:20
trmanco6Aug 24 21:20
MinceRvi vi vi?Aug 24 21:20
schestowitzSystem emacs is from 1983 or so, no?Aug 24 21:20
schestowitzThe emacs OSAug 24 21:21
schestowitzWith some Linus/X 'around' itAug 24 21:21
schestowitzLXDE can do it! LXDE on Android smartphone! < >Aug 24 21:31
schestowitzNoteworthy Linux console fonts 24 21:38
trmanco 24 21:39
trmancomore people need to start playing quake liveAug 24 21:39
trmancolinux peopleAug 24 21:39
trmancoor at least hit the website once a dayAug 24 21:40
trmanco 24 21:40
schestowitzDoes wget count?Aug 24 21:41
schestowitzWe could do cron jobs ;-) j/kjAug 24 21:41
trmancohehAug 24 21:41
trmancoI don't think soAug 24 21:41
trmancoI think I'm finally starting to understand regular expressionsAug 24 21:42
trmancoPCREAug 24 21:42
MinceRlinux people use q3a ;)Aug 24 21:46
_goblinI should really post more on MS-watch....that sites fallen appart since Joe left.Aug 24 22:01
_goblinjust finished a rather long post on MS stores.....Aug 24 22:02
schestowitz_goblin: no pleaseAug 24 22:02
_goblin?Aug 24 22:02
schestowitzChips already doesAug 24 22:02
schestowitzAnd it looks patheticAug 24 22:02
schestowitzNick has no readesAug 24 22:02
schestowitzThey seem to have leftAug 24 22:02
schestowitzAnd chips seems to be trolling his postsAug 24 22:02
schestowitzIt's better to neglect such sitesAug 24 22:03
_goblinThats a shame....the best place to challenge FUD would be MS watch since there will be legitimate MS users who read it.Aug 24 22:03
_goblinand they are the ones who should be given an informed choice.Aug 24 22:04
schestowitzWhy Has Nokia's Netbook Got Windows, Not Linux? < > What Gangstner group says.Aug 24 22:04
_goblinMS Watch is where I found out about Boycott Novell.Aug 24 22:04
_goblinand MS watch was the site which educated me to the practices of FUD spreading by dubious proprietary companies.Aug 24 22:04
schestowitzWilcox works with Scott Foulton nowAug 24 22:04
schestowitzSpreading Microsoft PR in BetaNewsAug 24 22:04
_goblinIve not been following him since he left MS watch.Aug 24 22:05
schestowitzThe APT2 project < >Aug 24 22:06
schestowitz_goblin: if you want to reach out to the Microsoft crowd, don'tAug 24 22:06
schestowitzYou're aiming at the highly indocrinatedAug 24 22:06
schestowitzLike Microsoft employeesAug 24 22:06
schestowitzIt's dyed in the woolAug 24 22:06
_goblinbut everyone has to start somewhere.Aug 24 22:06
schestowitzMainsream sites like Digg are betterAug 24 22:06
schestowitzI left over 13,000 comments thereAug 24 22:06
_goblina long time ago I was 100% MS.....Aug 24 22:06
schestowitzAnd 6-7,000 submissionsAug 24 22:07
_goblinyou see for a MS user who maybe is casual, in my opinion Digg is a little too confusing.....sites like MS watch are quite simple and straightforward and IMO the better choice.Aug 24 22:07
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schestowitzWho read em?Aug 24 22:20
schestowitzMostly pro-Microsoft enthusiastsAug 24 22:20
schestowitzThat's why they are given what they want - pro-MS PRAug 24 22:20
schestowitzSmartphone vendor slammed over privacy abuses 24 22:21
_goblinvery true mostly, although in my case as I say I would not have discovered BN...I would have simply been a Linux user oblivious to the underhanded tactics.   I also brought readers who were Windows users over to my blog, some of which are now Linux users (and very pleased to have made the switch)Aug 24 22:27
_goblinI do personally see a worth in contributing some time to sites like MS-Watch...whatever Joe is or isn't guilty of, he gave me a forum (and others) to put points across about Linux/FOSS that would not have been made otherwise....If you look at the end of Joes reign on MS watch, most of the comments came from Linux users and those MS faithful were very small in sent out a possitive message that there are alternatives.Aug 24 22:29
*schestowitz done with teaAug 24 22:33
schestowitzShould I post some news? I'm feeling so tiredAug 24 22:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Murdoch’s London freesheet closes 24 22:33
_goblinI dont like the sound of this:Aug 24 22:40
_goblin"The Press Team is a subset of the Marketing team, with a focus on tracking GNOME events worldwide, and communicating and engaging with journalists all over the world to help spread GNOME news."Aug 24 22:40
_goblinsounds like its getting closer to tactics of certain proprietary companies......Aug 24 22:40
_goblinits one thing promoting something on the back of honest held belief and personal experience.....its another doing it within the remit of a job description....Aug 24 22:41
_goblinI love Gnome (although XFCE is becomming a prefered choice) I would not be prepared to be an ambassador for any one product since at any time products/preferences can and do change.Aug 24 22:42
_goblinI remember my early experiences of Linux favored Fedora...I could not see myself using anything was the best I use Wolvix....things do change and I can't honestly say that in a years time I will still be using Wolvix, I will be using the product that is best for me...whatever that is.Aug 24 22:44
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schestowitzI'd rather battle against the unethical, not embrace itAug 24 22:50
schestowitzThe LF embraces the junk tactics tooAug 24 22:50
schestowitzIDC studies, marketing (PR), OIN which is hoarding patents, etc.Aug 24 22:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] nice evening at pembury. freda charmed cherry utterly.Aug 24 23:28
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