| schestowitz | Fanboy: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/08/29/steve-jobs-is-the-snow-leopard/ | Aug 30 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Benchmarks of Ubuntu Linux 8.04 and Wine http://bit.ly/99foz | Aug 30 00:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ShopForLinux to Sell GNU/Linux Preinstalled http://ur1.ca/aqb9 | Aug 30 00:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Sins in the Boston Press http://www.openmediaboston.org/node/872 | Aug 30 00:20 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's Entry Into GNU/Linux Desktop Still Due http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/67982.html | Aug 30 00:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Advocacy of GNU/Linux and Its Importance Stressed http://bit.ly/DIZNV | Aug 30 00:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] As GIMP Matures, More Developers Move to GNU/Linux http://ur1.ca/aqbp http://ur1.ca/aqbq http://ur1.ca/aqbr | Aug 30 00:27 | |
| seller_liar | gimp will install cmyk by default ? | Aug 30 00:29 |
| seller_liar | I believe cmyk is not installed because of soft patents | Aug 30 00:30 |
| ThistleWeb | from what I know, cymk is a very advanced feature | Aug 30 00:31 |
| seller_liar | trolls use cmyk against gimp | Aug 30 00:32 |
| ThistleWeb | it's not sw patents that stop it from being in the gimp, it's a heavy investment of dev time and resources | Aug 30 00:32 |
| seller_liar | "Oh boy gimp does not have cmyk!" | Aug 30 00:32 |
| ThistleWeb | professional printers work in cymk | Aug 30 00:32 |
| ziggyfish | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Will-Launch-Windows-7-in-New-York-City-732017/ - Windows 7 release - Oct. 22 | Aug 30 00:33 |
| ThistleWeb | apparently it gives a more accurate colour for print | Aug 30 00:33 |
| seller_liar | I don t know | Aug 30 00:33 |
| ThistleWeb | which is a large part of why the gimp does not cut it for pros yet | Aug 30 00:33 |
| seller_liar | for me, cmyk costs more cartidges | Aug 30 00:33 |
| seller_liar | for me, cmyk costs more cartridges | Aug 30 00:33 |
| ThistleWeb | it's more than competative for web art though | Aug 30 00:34 |
| ThistleWeb | I believe the gimp peeps have been working on cymk for yrs | Aug 30 00:34 |
| seller_liar | gimp is very good ,but people which use photoshop use the lack of cmyk argument | Aug 30 00:34 |
| ThistleWeb | bit depth is another key factor | Aug 30 00:34 |
| ThistleWeb | photoshop has a much deeper bit depth | Aug 30 00:34 |
| seller_liar | http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/separate.shtml | Aug 30 00:34 |
| ThistleWeb | again, it's a print issue | Aug 30 00:35 |
| ThistleWeb | for those making stuff for websites, the gimp is fantastic | Aug 30 00:35 |
| ThistleWeb | many amatuers / home users work in rgb too, which the gimp can do just fine | Aug 30 00:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Warsow 0.5 Comes to GNU/Linux http://bit.ly/BKePQ | Aug 30 00:35 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] DRM-infected Windows Games Run in Wine http://ur1.ca/aqc5 | Aug 30 00:35 | |
| ziggyfish | interesting | Aug 30 00:36 |
| ziggyfish | http://www.vancouversun.com/business/story.html?id=1942346 | Aug 30 00:36 |
| ThistleWeb | for most users the gimp is fine for print stuff too | Aug 30 00:36 |
| ziggyfish | Microsoft and Bell no longer sympatico | Aug 30 00:36 |
| ThistleWeb | but pros making high res billboards etc the gimp is nowhere near good enough | Aug 30 00:37 |
| ThistleWeb | yet | Aug 30 00:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microblogging/Blogging Tools for GNU/Linux Listed http://bit.ly/8hZgu | Aug 30 00:38 | |
| schestowitz | cyk is adobe fud | Aug 30 00:39 |
| schestowitz | For shills | Aug 30 00:39 |
| schestowitz | *cymk | Aug 30 00:39 |
| ThistleWeb | adobe use similar tricks to MS with photoshop, around 80% of photoshop users are using illegal copies, but adobe use this to establish a standard, and make sure the pros have to pay | Aug 30 00:39 |
| schestowitz | and GIMP supports it | Aug 30 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Since over a year ago | Aug 30 00:39 |
| ThistleWeb | most users hardly use a fraction of the features | Aug 30 00:39 |
| ziggyfish | ThistleWeb: that reminds me of Word, users don't use a fraction of the features | Aug 30 00:40 |
| ThistleWeb | ziggyfish: exactly | Aug 30 00:40 |
| seller_liar | yes , but insist to buy a new versiion even don t use all features | Aug 30 00:41 |
| ThistleWeb | photoshop is the industry standard, despite the high percentage of illegal copies | Aug 30 00:41 |
| ThistleWeb | I stand corrected, the gimp does have cymk | Aug 30 00:42 |
| ThistleWeb | never noticed that before | Aug 30 00:42 |
| ziggyfish | ThistleWeb: was just about to say | Aug 30 00:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Marvels of Gentoo Discovered http://www.mikanotoko.org/blog/?p=22 | Aug 30 00:43 | |
| ThistleWeb | I only use rgb personally | Aug 30 00:44 |
| ThistleWeb | I don't notice the difference, but then it's a print thing | Aug 30 00:45 |
| ziggyfish | ThistleWeb: CYMK is 100% compatible wit RGB. | Aug 30 00:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Selection of GNU/Linux Distributions for Biomedical People http://bit.ly/I9TNg | Aug 30 00:46 | |
| schestowitz | Yes | Aug 30 00:47 |
| ThistleWeb | another inertia advantage photoshop has is the amount of plugins, filters, third party tutorial etc stuff | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | CYMK is FUD | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | They moved on to other anti-GIMP FUD | Aug 30 00:47 |
| ziggyfish | (this is going back a couple of years when I actually did a course in graphics design) | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Search 'Adobe" in BN | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Adobe uses tactics similar to Microsoft | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Addiction of ids | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | And BSA | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | Extortion of schools | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | I have E-mails | Aug 30 00:47 |
| schestowitz | To show this black on white | Aug 30 00:47 |
| ThistleWeb | I was always led to believe professional printers preferred (or demanded) cymk to get an accurate colour reproduction | Aug 30 00:48 |
| ziggyfish | RGB is additive. where as CYMK is subtractive. | Aug 30 00:49 |
| ThistleWeb | I don't resent Photoshop too much, it is a very good program, if very expensive. It's priced well out of most people's range | Aug 30 00:50 |
| ThistleWeb | for most peeps it's not worth the price | Aug 30 00:50 |
| ziggyfish | Printers normally work in CYMK because it's easyer to convert a CYMK to the correct ink levels than what it is RGB | Aug 30 00:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dell us Boosting GNU/Linux Support, Not Receding http://bit.ly/jdRwP | Aug 30 00:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Linux Phones Confirmed http://bit.ly/2RrXQ | Aug 30 00:53 | |
| ThistleWeb | many tutorials designed for photoshop can be converted to other apps which is handy, unless it's using some photoshop only filters | Aug 30 00:54 |
| ThistleWeb | like MS, if Adobe cracked down on every illegal copy, they'd lose a HUGE chunk of their market to FOSS alternatives | Aug 30 00:55 |
| ThistleWeb | so they're forced into a hypocrites position of whining about illegal copies, while relying on them for market share | Aug 30 00:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Iceland's Education System Adopts Free Software http://bit.ly/20APL0 | Aug 30 00:57 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Big Win for Dr. Richard Stallman http://bit.ly/YwA9g | Aug 30 01:02 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Big Funding Comes to Wikimedia and Creative Commons http://ur1.ca/aqd7 http://ur1.ca/aqd8 | Aug 30 01:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] rPath Helps Fog Computing, OpenGoo Eliminates It http://ur1.ca/aqde http://ur1.ca/aqdf http://ur1.ca/aqdg | Aug 30 01:06 | |
| ThistleWeb | bbl | Aug 30 01:10 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Digital Fascism Targets Unencrypted Drives http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080801/0310141861.shtml | Aug 30 01:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Technology Adoption in Africa Promoted Through Open Standards http://ur1.ca/aqdt | Aug 30 01:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] FCC Can't Do Its Own Type of Job http://bit.ly/Xmvhy | Aug 30 01:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Censorship/Web Abuse Courtesy of Obamaa [sic] and Mpaandelson [sic] http://ur1.ca/ap4o http://ur1.ca/aqe1 | Aug 30 01:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intellectual Monopolies Apply to Homework and Ideas Now? http://ur1.ca/aqe4 http://ur1.ca/aqe5 | Aug 30 01:20 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Study: File Sharers Buy More Music http://bit.ly/eigby | Aug 30 01:20 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Pirate" Company Microsoft Corp. "Steals" Ideas Again | Aug 30 01:24 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Pirate" Company Microsoft Corp. "Steals" Ideas Again http://bit.ly/m3Cby | Aug 30 01:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Obamaa Administration -- Packed with RIAA Lawyers -- Uses Public Money to Fight the Public http://ur1.ca/aqef | Aug 30 01:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Samsung to Make Ballnux Phones (Microsoft Tax-Infected) http://bit.ly/JYKWX | Aug 30 01:30 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SCO is Finished - Analysis http://bit.ly/Ghg8p | Aug 30 01:31 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] B0ng Briberies Are Over as Microsoft Runs Low on Cash and Borrows Money http://ur1.ca/aqeq | Aug 30 01:33 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Evidence That OOXML is Just a Proprietary Wannabe ODF Catchup http://bit.ly/ATsiw | Aug 30 01:35 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Malware Provides Reasons to Move to GNU/Linux http://bit.ly/XLg3d | Aug 30 01:37 | |
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| schestowitz | Heh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8aqx6e403g&feature=related | Aug 30 01:48 |
| twitter1 | what's it about? | Aug 30 01:50 |
| twitter1 | I can't get it from here because youtube broke clive for Lenny and this network blocks the usual ssh port | Aug 30 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Just some Bush bashing | Aug 30 01:52 |
| schestowitz | I'm watching Cosmos (full show) on my other screen ATM | Aug 30 01:53 |
| twitter1 | good show | Aug 30 01:55 |
| twitter1 | I still don't do the multi screen thing. | Aug 30 01:56 |
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| Eruaran | Ive been watching the shills on CNet | Aug 30 02:18 |
| schestowitz | WHich one/s? | Aug 30 02:18 |
| twitter1 | which ones are not shills? | Aug 30 02:19 |
| Eruaran | the writer I mentioned the other day | Aug 30 02:19 |
| Eruaran | as well as known shills like Mr Dee | Aug 30 02:19 |
| Eruaran | (Andre) | Aug 30 02:19 |
| Eruaran | And others like 'superswiss' | Aug 30 02:19 |
| schestowitz | I've exposed at least one so far | Aug 30 02:19 |
| schestowitz | Other than Microsoft employees | Aug 30 02:19 |
| schestowitz | superswiss? | Aug 30 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Who's dat? | Aug 30 02:20 |
| Eruaran | there's another one I've noticed as well but I have forgotten his name for now | Aug 30 02:20 |
| Eruaran | someone shilling on cnet | Aug 30 02:20 |
| Eruaran | they're all using the same phrases and terms | Aug 30 02:20 |
| Eruaran | one that keeps coming up is "modern Windows" | Aug 30 02:20 |
| twitter1 | is he referring to X11? | Aug 30 02:21 |
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| twitter1 | like xorg? | Aug 30 02:21 |
| Eruaran | no, he's referring to Windows 7 | Aug 30 02:21 |
| twitter1 | lol | Aug 30 02:21 |
| twitter1 | Vista is deh modern | Aug 30 02:22 |
| twitter1 | Modern M$, no sales. | Aug 30 02:22 |
| Eruaran | In the face of Snow Leopards release and the latest Mac ads, they're playing up the fact that yes, Windows XP is almost a decade old, but Windows 7 is infinitely more secure.. they refer to Vista and Windows 7 as "modern Windows" | Aug 30 02:22 |
| twitter1 | infinite security blanket | Aug 30 02:22 |
| twitter1 | I've seen that, see my Vista 7 Hype Log. | Aug 30 02:23 |
| Eruaran | "superswiss" does all the things you'd expect a paid Microsoft shill to do | Aug 30 02:23 |
| Eruaran | confuses the issue, introduces red herrings, attacks the messenger etc | Aug 30 02:24 |
| Eruaran | lies | Aug 30 02:24 |
| twitter1 | http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/216759 | Aug 30 02:24 |
| twitter1 | Windows 7 is better than OSX is the big talking point for these dorks now. | Aug 30 02:25 |
| twitter1 | Everything our competitor was last year, Windows 7 is tomorrow, we promise. | Aug 30 02:25 |
| twitter1 | It did not work so well for Vista. | Aug 30 02:25 |
| twitter1 | another nice little lie they have going is that there was not enough marketing for Vista. Billions of dollars worth of advertising is described as "quiet" | Aug 30 02:26 |
| twitter1 | I have articles from the Vista failure log that show their advertising reached more than 90% of every market they surveyed. | Aug 30 02:27 |
| twitter1 | Just as consistently, only about 12% of people said they wanted Vista. That number dwindled off to single digits as the failure stories arrived. | Aug 30 02:28 |
| twitter1 | Network World, Information World and Channel Web have all come out with blithering articles saying Windows 7 is better in every way than Mac. | Aug 30 02:29 |
| twitter1 | Randall Kennedy and Mitchell Ashley were particularly idiotic. | Aug 30 02:30 |
| Eruaran | Steven Musil has weighed in doing the same thing now as well | Aug 30 02:32 |
| Eruaran | And I expect we'll see the usual belated tripe from Preston Gralla as well | Aug 30 02:32 |
| Eruaran | They are using the same talking points | Aug 30 02:33 |
| Eruaran | Not surprising really, October 22 is only about 6 weeks away from release now. | Aug 30 02:35 |
| Eruaran | (vista 7) | Aug 30 02:35 |
| Eruaran | Note: they'll shift terms from OS X to Macintosh (not Mac or iMac or Macbook etc) but the deliberately 80's sounding "Macintosh" | Aug 30 02:37 |
| Eruaran | And when they speak of Windows 7 they'll speak in terms of "modern Windows", "bigger" market share, "most popular" etc | Aug 30 02:38 |
| Eruaran | What never ceases to amaze me is the boldness of the claims made. It garuntee's they'll end up with egg on their faces. | Aug 30 02:40 |
| twitter1 | This post attracted a troll. http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=5709911 | Aug 30 02:46 |
| twitter1 | Yes, the same people did the same things for Vista too. Many of them apologized. | Aug 30 02:47 |
| twitter1 | Windows 7 is Vista, so the bigger, bolder claims are just that much dumber. | Aug 30 02:48 |
| twitter1 | but the Windows people are stuck. | Aug 30 02:48 |
| twitter1 | Vista killed the upgrade inevitability and many other myths | Aug 30 02:49 |
| twitter1 | they can't rely on these myths to generate sales but they also can't fix Vista. | Aug 30 02:49 |
| twitter1 | I suppose they think they can just keep lying until computing power catches up with their garbage. | Aug 30 02:50 |
| twitter1 | fat chance. | Aug 30 02:50 |
| Eruaran | Windows 7 looks good on an i7... there are plenty of stupid people who will buy an i7 and say "Widnows 7 is fantastic" while they ignore being told, "dude, you have an i7... anything is fast on an i7". | Aug 30 02:51 |
| Eruaran | You can virtualize Vista on an i7 on Fedora or other distro and play your blockbuster Windows games... and it will still be fast. | Aug 30 02:53 |
| Eruaran | (with good graphics card of course) | Aug 30 02:54 |
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| Eruaran | Our company is currently dealing with one such idiot who has gone to Consumer Affairs complaining we wont fix or replace or refund his faulty computer. Reason we wont ? Simple: Its not faulty. He refuses to accept that Windows 7 RC 7100 isn't fully compatible with his games. | Aug 30 02:56 |
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| Eruaran | He refuses to go back to XP because he's thinks Windows 7 is so great (even though it has never worked properly for him). The main game he plays is CoD4. The irony here is that you can play CoD4 with Wine on your GNU/Linux system. | Aug 30 02:58 |
| Eruaran | Before his system was sent to head office for further testing (more technicians wasting time testing a perfectly good computer), his stuff was stored in the back room... every time I walked past that door and saw his black i7 system with its 24" monitor I thought, "what an idiot". | Aug 30 03:00 |
| Eruaran | He's claiming we "recommended" the release candidate of Windows 7 to him | Aug 30 03:01 |
| Eruaran | No such recommendation was made | Aug 30 03:01 |
| Eruaran | It got to the point where I said to this guy, "What ? You want me to fix Microsoft's software for them ?" | Aug 30 03:03 |
| twitter1 | You assume Windows 7 will work. Vista has proved otherwise. I know people who have gotten some nasty system failures. -> there are plenty of stupid people who will buy an i7 and say "Widnows 7 is fantastic" | Aug 30 03:07 |
| twitter1 | I'm sorry about your upset customer. | Aug 30 03:08 |
| twitter1 | Give him an old hard drive with GNU/Linux and CoD4 at no charge. | Aug 30 03:09 |
| twitter1 | Tell him you are sorry that Windows 7 let him down and that's the best you can do. | Aug 30 03:10 |
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| twitter1 | It's hard to dual boot gnu/linux with modern windows. | Aug 30 03:13 |
| twitter1 | I tried to dual boot Mepis and XP on a Dell laptop four years ago. XP did nasty things like disable the wireless in a way that could not be reversed with the keyboard. I'd have to go into XP, enable the wireless and kill the system before it turned it back off. | Aug 30 03:15 |
| twitter1 | three more US banks fail. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSdMMGzkt1do | Aug 30 03:20 |
| twitter1 | 84 down this year | Aug 30 03:20 |
| ziggyfish | IPod's suck | Aug 30 03:23 |
| twitter1 | pc world gives reasonably positive coverage of the Windows 7 deadly sins effort http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/170842/windows_7s_deadly_sins.html | Aug 30 03:33 |
| ziggyfish | Windows 7 still has driver issues (can't even recognise my virtual box network adapter) | Aug 30 03:44 |
| twitter1 | I'm sure that's intentional. | Aug 30 03:46 |
| twitter1 | tip of the iceberg for driver fail, just wait till real people get their hands on it. | Aug 30 03:46 |
| twitter1 | It's Vista all over again. | Aug 30 03:46 |
| ziggyfish | i've install the guest additions, and still no signs of working. Try to configure it, but every thing has changed (can't do anything with this GUI, it makes me want to use a commandline) | Aug 30 03:48 |
| twitter1 | good command lines make me want to use command lines | Aug 30 03:49 |
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| ziggyfish | it has to be better than the windows GUI :P | Aug 30 03:51 |
| twitter1 | anything is better than Windows GUI | Aug 30 03:52 |
| oiaohm | Dos twitter1? | Aug 30 03:52 |
| twitter1 | DOS sucks | Aug 30 03:53 |
| twitter1 | paths are painful | Aug 30 03:53 |
| oiaohm | Exactly. Windows GUI is at least better than Dos. | Aug 30 03:53 |
| twitter1 | no, both suck | Aug 30 03:53 |
| oiaohm | Mind you not by much. | Aug 30 03:53 |
| twitter1 | DOS can actually be useful in machine applications. Legacy but still better than windows itself | Aug 30 03:54 |
| twitter1 | Each new version of Windows has brought another layer of instability and restrictions. | Aug 30 03:55 |
| twitter1 | DOS is a little less painful with cygwin, but it's not really DOS after that. | Aug 30 03:56 |
| oiaohm | cygwin is pure windows programs. | Aug 30 03:56 |
| ziggyfish | It's like comparing one pile of garbage to another, anyway IHMO DOS, is a lot better than the Windows 7 GUI, at least I can find what I need | Aug 30 03:57 |
| twitter1 | Where do you want to suffer today? | Aug 30 03:57 |
| twitter1 | Google Docs trumps M$ Office again by offering translation. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/27/AR2009082702115.html | Aug 30 03:57 |
| oiaohm | Now that would make a good anti MS slogon twitter1 | Aug 30 03:57 |
| ziggyfish | This is weird the device manager says that the network adapter is working fine, however the troubleshooter says it isn't | Aug 30 03:58 |
| oiaohm | In what os/distribution ziggyfish | Aug 30 03:59 |
| ziggyfish | Windows 7 | Aug 30 03:59 |
| twitter1 | Wine, Virtual Box, Dual Booting. They all go the same way for me. After setting them up, they never get used. | Aug 30 04:00 |
| ziggyfish | Virtual Box | Aug 30 04:00 |
| oiaohm | Wine gets used by me when I have vlc under Linux go nuts and decide not to play particular videos. | Aug 30 04:00 |
| twitter1 | I got rid of my last Windows dual boot about six years ago. Had not used it for years and the wife had not used it for months. | Aug 30 04:00 |
| ziggyfish | twitter1, just having a look at what the next Windows will look like | Aug 30 04:01 |
| twitter1 | That's some rare video, ohm. VLC always comes through for me. | Aug 30 04:01 |
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| oiaohm | My vlc in this system has gone strange. | Aug 30 04:01 |
| oiaohm | It should play the video but it does not instead it goes splat. | Aug 30 04:01 |
| oiaohm | h264 I think I have the number right. | Aug 30 04:02 |
| ziggyfish | oiaohm: DRM??? | Aug 30 04:02 |
| oiaohm | Its refusing to play. | Aug 30 04:02 |
| twitter1 | You goove on non free software, ohm, lots of strange things happen when you pay with that kind of thing. | Aug 30 04:02 |
| twitter1 | The further away you get from non free software, the fewer problems you have. | Aug 30 04:03 |
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| _Hicham_ | Launchpad# | Aug 30 04:03 |
| _Hicham_ | new and interesting project | Aug 30 04:03 |
| _Hicham_ | http://projects.qnetp.net/projects/show/launchpad-sharp | Aug 30 04:03 |
| oiaohm | Video it refusing to play is big buck bunny and a few other blender created ones twitter1 | Aug 30 04:04 |
| _Hicham_ | gpg# also : http://projects.qnetp.net/projects/show/gpg-sharp | Aug 30 04:04 |
| twitter1 | email the author | Aug 30 04:05 |
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| _Hicham_ | as i said the only remaining thing that requires sharp bindings for its is schestowitz | Aug 30 04:05 |
| _Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC | Aug 30 04:05 |
| _Hicham_ | the biggest troll of all the times | Aug 30 04:05 |
| _Hicham_ | wb | Aug 30 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | I just got my new Sansa in the mail | Aug 30 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | this one supports AAC and Ogg Vorbis | Aug 30 04:05 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Aug 30 04:05 |
| twitter1 | tell them to release Big Buck Bunny as theora | Aug 30 04:05 |
| twitter1 | or to put it on Internet Archive | Aug 30 04:06 |
| _Hicham_ | how much did it cost u ? | Aug 30 04:06 |
| oiaohm | 700 meg + download twitter1. Don't have the quota for it at moment twitter1 | Aug 30 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | $40 | Aug 30 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | it's got 4 gigs internal and I already have a 16 gig micro SD card I can plug into it | Aug 30 04:06 |
| twitter1 | 700 MB + fail or 400 theora + success, the choice was the authors | Aug 30 04:07 |
| oiaohm | Or vlc for windows in wine that works perfectly. | Aug 30 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | I use h.264 for video anyway | Aug 30 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | Theora still has yet to do better than it or DivX | Aug 30 04:07 |
| oiaohm | Until the bug disappears. | Aug 30 04:07 |
| twitter1 | I think Internet Archive has been transcoding to theroa | Aug 30 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis kind of impressed me though because at q6 (~192 kbps) it provides the full frequency response of a CD | Aug 30 04:08 |
| twitter1 | most reasonable web sites and good content is moving that way | Aug 30 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | all the way up to 22.05 Khz | Aug 30 04:08 |
| _Hicham_ | except twitter1 | Aug 30 04:08 |
| twitter1 | so you won't need that windows install running VLC for much more than Silverblight soon. | Aug 30 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | so Vorbis makes a good audio codec, but Theora has yet to release an encoder I would think about using | Aug 30 04:08 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 is still using wmv for encoding | Aug 30 04:08 |
| twitter1 | heh | Aug 30 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | I used to use WMV back when it was that or DivX 3 | Aug 30 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | but there weren't a lot of options then and frankly by 1998 standards, WMV was the best | Aug 30 04:09 |
| _Hicham_ | wmv is one of the most supported formats | Aug 30 04:09 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks to uncle billy | Aug 30 04:09 |
| oiaohm | vlc under wine is screwly too no text. | Aug 30 04:09 |
| oiaohm | Basically I have a few system gremlims at moment. | Aug 30 04:10 |
| twitter1 | I have very few wmv files. | Aug 30 04:10 |
| twitter1 | where do you find trash like that? | Aug 30 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, ffmpeg can playback WMV files jsut fine under Linux | Aug 30 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | WMA too | Aug 30 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | it has encoders for both too, but they don't work nearly as well as Microsoft's | Aug 30 04:10 |
| twitter1 | Wikipedia, Internet Archive, Boing Boing and other great sites are moving to theora. I'm a happy. | Aug 30 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, looks like Newegg accidentally sold too many of these as refurbs | Aug 30 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | and had to send me a brand new one | Aug 30 04:11 |
| twitter1 | I'm sure Bill and Steve are not so happy, but better they lose out on DRM and video software revenue than everyone lives in a pay per play universe. | Aug 30 04:12 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, it plays Audible books too | Aug 30 04:12 |
| DaemonFC | are those DRM'd? | Aug 30 04:13 |
| oiaohm | Some DaemonFC | Aug 30 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | I got a coupon for a free book from them | Aug 30 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | I'll cash it in and check them out I guess | Aug 30 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | I also got a coupon for 12 free mp3s from Rhapsody | Aug 30 04:14 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Aug 30 04:14 |
| DaemonFC | they're pimping out everybody, huh? | Aug 30 04:14 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Aug 30 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | setup program is on a business card sized CD, never actually seen one of these | Aug 30 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | Damn Small Linux brags that it fits on them though | Aug 30 04:15 |
| twitter1 | Don't blame Windows for internet woes, blame a pretty girl http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&ned=us&topic=t&ncl=drvIzPLeV7ADG2MKKKvokODM3v3eM | Aug 30 04:16 |
| twitter1 | pathetic | Aug 30 04:16 |
| DaemonFC | it does not say it supports Vorbis | Aug 30 04:16 |
| DaemonFC | but I know their new-ish firmware does | Aug 30 04:16 |
| DaemonFC | they added it last year | Aug 30 04:16 |
| DaemonFC | it also supports FLAC | Aug 30 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | doubt I'd get too many albums on it like that though | Aug 30 04:17 |
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| DaemonFC | the processor is much faster than the one in the View, guess it would have to be to support Vorbis and FLAC | Aug 30 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | menus breeze by though | Aug 30 04:20 |
| _Hicham_ | Omar87 : مرحبا بالأخ العزيز عمر | Aug 30 04:21 |
| twitter1 | nifty, what does it say? | Aug 30 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | Al Salamuu something or other | Aug 30 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | it's the thought that counts | Aug 30 04:21 |
| oiaohm | http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/08/29/2159221/Dell-Says-Re-Imaging-HDs-a-Burden-If-Word-Banned << Hmm don't stop our kick backs | Aug 30 04:22 |
| _Hicham_ | $40 is really cheap | Aug 30 04:23 |
| _Hicham_ | and does this sansa have a good sound quality ? | Aug 30 04:23 |
| twitter1 | bablefish fails | Aug 30 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Haven't tried that yet | Aug 30 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | I'm setting it up and now I'm going to get the firmware updated | Aug 30 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 30 04:24 |
| _Hicham_ | be aware that upgrading the firmware is not always a good idea | Aug 30 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | It doesn't replace the firmware on the device | Aug 30 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | it loads the new firmware onto the internal memory | Aug 30 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | so you can get rid of it if something goes wrong | Aug 30 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | and you still have the original firmware in the ROM | Aug 30 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather use 8 megs of storage than risk flashing a programmable ROM so I think they made the right call | Aug 30 04:25 |
| _Hicham_ | great idea | Aug 30 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | the automated updater on these only supports Windows | Aug 30 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | you can download the ROM though and copy it over manually | Aug 30 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | then reboot the unit | Aug 30 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | so it's possible to upgrade them on Linux | Aug 30 04:27 |
| twitter1 | That will teach Dell to fill their HDs up with M$ crap in the first place. | Aug 30 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Kick backs twitter1 | Aug 30 04:28 |
| oiaohm | Its been profitable. | Aug 30 04:28 |
| twitter1 | If they had a reasonable mix of OS and software, the loss of Word would not be a big issue. | Aug 30 04:28 |
| twitter1 | kickbacks are only profitable to the monopoly holder, ohm. | Aug 30 04:28 |
| twitter1 | everyone else gets what M$ lets them have. | Aug 30 04:28 |
| twitter1 | The loss of Word should no more damage Dell than a bad batch of eggs damages the local grocer. | Aug 30 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | Windows knows what the device is | Aug 30 04:29 |
| twitter1 | Rule of Law and free market, Ohm, it's good for everyone. | Aug 30 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | even has a device stage for it | Aug 30 04:30 |
| DaemonFC | http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7807/81739974.png | Aug 30 04:30 |
| oiaohm | Difference here twitter1 shop was being paid to provide the eggs twitter1 | Aug 30 04:30 |
| oiaohm | Trial ware does not make it on to OEM machines for free. | Aug 30 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | it costs the people that put it there quite a lot of money | Aug 30 04:31 |
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| DaemonFC | through two plugins, I can even extend Windows Media Player to play Vorbis and Flac and Windows Explorer and WMP to read and edit Vorbis and Flac tag files | Aug 30 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | and sync them through MTP | Aug 30 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | that's kind of funny actually | Aug 30 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | apparently Microsoft changed their minds and let unsigned codecs work with Windows 7 after all | Aug 30 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | I'll probably use MSC though so Linux doesn't freak out and die | Aug 30 04:39 |
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| twitter1 | people do buy shelf space. grocery stores that sell it suck. | Aug 30 04:42 |
| twitter1 | http://translate.google.com/translate_t?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&text=%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%AD%D8%A8%D8%A7+%D8%A8%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A3%D8%AE+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B2%D9%8A%D8%B2+%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%B1&file=&sl=ar&tl=en&history_state0=# | Aug 30 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart does | Aug 30 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | they make you pay for "prime placement" | Aug 30 04:42 |
| twitter1 | google translate works, but not with Konq 3.5 for some reason. had to use iceweasle | Aug 30 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | they also narrow down almost every product to the top three sellers | Aug 30 04:42 |
| twitter1 | what's really cool is that kipper and all the other tools I take for granted deal with Arabic without any further effort on my part. | Aug 30 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | except for consumabled and some electronics | Aug 30 04:43 |
| twitter1 | Pidgin has something funny to it. AIM does right to left but IRC does not. | Aug 30 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | whoa | Aug 30 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | it does play Vorbis | Aug 30 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | and it sounds awesome :) | Aug 30 04:45 |
| twitter1 | Hello brother Aziz Omar <- مرحبا بالأخ العزيز عمر | Aug 30 04:46 |
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| DaemonFC | I rated AoTuv's Vorbis encoder on my own ABXing | Aug 30 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | near as I can tell, it's about 40-50% more efficient than Lame | Aug 30 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | and tied with WMA Pro | Aug 30 04:51 |
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| ick, MTP -> DaemonFC: and sync them through MTP | Aug 30 05:08 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter the suspicious | Aug 30 05:09 |
| got anything to recommend MTP? From what I've read it's a really stupid thing to do to a working USB device. | Aug 30 05:11 | |
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| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : still encoding ? | Aug 30 05:22 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_: Nah, in a video call right now with a friend | Aug 30 05:24 |
| DaemonFC | browsing in the background | Aug 30 05:24 |
| DaemonFC | I do like this new Sansa though, it does have full and proper support for Vorbis and Flac | Aug 30 05:24 |
| _Hicham_ | video call using Skype ? | Aug 30 05:24 |
| DaemonFC | you may need to get the firmware update though | Aug 30 05:24 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Aug 30 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Live Messenger | Aug 30 05:25 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the firmware update for ? Vorbis support ? | Aug 30 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | twitter: I am using MSC, using MTP to sync Vorbis files just feels *wrong* | Aug 30 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Aug 30 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | mine already had the Vorbis and FLAC support on the factory firmware | Aug 30 05:26 |
| DaemonFC | but not all of them do | Aug 30 05:26 |
| DaemonFC | if you get one used you may need to upgrade it | Aug 30 05:26 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Aug 30 05:26 |
| _Hicham_ | now that is a real music player | Aug 30 05:26 |
| _Hicham_ | with Vorbis support | Aug 30 05:27 |
| DaemonFC | one of the few affordable players that does bother to support Vorbis | Aug 30 05:27 |
| DaemonFC | well, name brand players anyway | Aug 30 05:27 |
| _Hicham_ | do players vendors pay patent fees ? | Aug 30 05:27 |
| DaemonFC | for MPEG and Windows Media decoders, yes | Aug 30 05:27 |
| DaemonFC | I think they pay 10 cents per device that supports Windows Media and 35 cents to license MPEG patents | Aug 30 05:28 |
| DaemonFC | there's no way to avoid that though because there aren't any MP3 players that don't play MP3 (obviously) or WMA | Aug 30 05:28 |
| DaemonFC | so you're sending 10 cents to Microsoft and 35 cents to FhG, Thomson, and the MPEG forum every time you buy a portable device | Aug 30 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | even if you never intend to use those decoders | Aug 30 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft must charge 10 cents because they know what Windows Media support is worth :P | Aug 30 05:30 |
| DaemonFC | they practically give it away in comparison to other formats just to get widespread player support | Aug 30 05:31 |
| DaemonFC | There's no WMA Pro or Lossless support on anything other than Zune | Aug 30 05:32 |
| DaemonFC | the decoding process is so complicated that most player manufacturers don't want to put in a faster CPU and higher capacity battery just to support them | Aug 30 05:33 |
| _Hicham_ | what if music players stopped using mp3 and wma ? do u think that it will matter ? | Aug 30 05:33 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt there's any chance they'll stop supporting either | Aug 30 05:33 |
| DaemonFC | if anything, the industry is pushing most commercial content to MPEG variants | Aug 30 05:34 |
| DaemonFC | the only reason these players support WMA is because of the DRM | Aug 30 05:34 |
| _Hicham_ | FOSS phobia | Aug 30 05:34 |
| DaemonFC | subscription music services can't DRM MPEG files as easily | Aug 30 05:34 |
| DaemonFC | so those are always WMA | Aug 30 05:34 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the best way to transcode files from mp3 to ogg vorbis ? | Aug 30 05:35 |
| _Hicham_ | from your experience ? | Aug 30 05:35 |
| DaemonFC | I don't | Aug 30 05:35 |
| DaemonFC | I encode from CDs or FLAC files | Aug 30 05:36 |
| DaemonFC | transcoding between lossy formats is pointless | Aug 30 05:36 |
| DaemonFC | if you're going to do that you may as well just leave them as MP3s | Aug 30 05:36 |
| DaemonFC | transcoding just gives you all the artifacts from the MP3 file plus the ones that Vorbis would introduce | Aug 30 05:37 |
| DaemonFC | To really work effectively, you have to go back to a lossless source | Aug 30 05:37 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft tried distributing an MP3 to WMA convertor with Plus! for Windows XP | Aug 30 05:37 |
| DaemonFC | it claimed it could store all your music in WMA at 64 kbps and have it sound just as good | Aug 30 05:38 |
| _Hicham_ | WMA is very lossy | Aug 30 05:38 |
| DaemonFC | WMA Standard is | Aug 30 05:38 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: حيا الله الأخ الحبيب هشام. | Aug 30 05:38 |
| DaemonFC | that has more to do with bad psychoacoustic model than bad file format | Aug 30 05:38 |
| DaemonFC | WMA Pro fixes that | Aug 30 05:39 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: رمضان كريم و كل عام و أنتم بخير | Aug 30 05:39 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft pretty much trashed WMA Standard and wrote WMA Pro from scratch | Aug 30 05:39 |
| DaemonFC | they're both very different codecs | Aug 30 05:39 |
| _Hicham_ | Omar87 : رمضان كريم، بمزيد من الثواب و المغفرة | Aug 30 05:40 |
| _Hicham_ | لنا و لكم يا أخ عمر | Aug 30 05:40 |
| DaemonFC | in some ways, WMA codecs are technically superior to Vorbis | Aug 30 05:40 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: آمين يا رب. لنا و لكم و لجميع المسلمين إن شاء الله تعالى. | Aug 30 05:40 |
| DaemonFC | they have 6 different block sizes that the encoder can choose from, for example | Aug 30 05:40 |
| DaemonFC | but if the encoder isn't properly switching block sizes, it just leads to more distortion | Aug 30 05:41 |
| DaemonFC | but in theory you could get better results | Aug 30 05:41 |
| _Hicham_ | is wma specification free ? | Aug 30 05:42 |
| DaemonFC | the bitstream format is actually very good, Microsoft hired some very smart people for that part | Aug 30 05:42 |
| DaemonFC | WMA specification is not free, the bitstream has been reverse engineered though | Aug 30 05:42 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft doesn't own all the patents for all the things WMA does | Aug 30 05:43 |
| _Hicham_ | reverse engineering is not legal | Aug 30 05:43 |
| DaemonFC | they actually license a lot of stuff that's been used in AAC and High Efficiency AAC | Aug 30 05:43 |
| DaemonFC | for WMA Pro | Aug 30 05:43 |
| DaemonFC | clean room reverse engineering is legal, it's how Wine is built | Aug 30 05:43 |
| DaemonFC | ffmpeg has done the same thing for Windows Media codecs | Aug 30 05:44 |
| DaemonFC | well, the two profiles of the WMA Standard codec, WMV 8 and 9 anyway | Aug 30 05:44 |
| DaemonFC | Linux doesn't support playback of WMA Pro or Lossless because they use different bitstream formats than WMA Standard | Aug 30 05:45 |
| DaemonFC | so ffmpeg doesn't have codecs for them | Aug 30 05:45 |
| DaemonFC | you may be able to play them back with RealPlayer, I haven't looked into that | Aug 30 05:45 |
| _Hicham_ | but moonlight do i think ? | Aug 30 05:45 |
| DaemonFC | Fluendo supports them I believe, but you have to pay to license that | Aug 30 05:45 |
| DaemonFC | the binary codecs for Moonlight provided by Microsoft support all Windows Media codecs, all AAC profiles, MP3, and h.264 | Aug 30 05:46 |
| DaemonFC | but they only work in Moonlight | Aug 30 05:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Fluendo Codecs are for Gstreamer I think ? | Aug 30 05:48 |
| DaemonFC | correct | Aug 30 05:48 |
| DaemonFC | that's why Mandriva uses Gstreamer in KDE | Aug 30 05:49 |
| DaemonFC | they use a subset of the Fluendo codec pack in Mandriva PowerPack | Aug 30 05:49 |
| DaemonFC | Anyone can use the Fluendo MP3 decoder legally | Aug 30 05:51 |
| _Hicham_ | so Gstreamer is the only way to get legal codecs ? | Aug 30 05:51 |
| DaemonFC | the source code for it is available under BSD license | Aug 30 05:51 |
| DaemonFC | Well, that all depends | Aug 30 05:51 |
| DaemonFC | anyone can pay royalties and their codecs will be legal | Aug 30 05:52 |
| DaemonFC | but I think Fluendo is the only one that does it | Aug 30 05:52 |
| _Hicham_ | so we are infringing the law by using Mplayer and VLC ? | Aug 30 05:52 |
| DaemonFC | technically | Aug 30 05:53 |
| DaemonFC | more like, the person distributing them is | Aug 30 05:53 |
| DaemonFC | I haven't ever heard of anyone going after individual users over codec infringement | Aug 30 05:54 |
| _Hicham_ | a criminal | Aug 30 05:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's much easier to sue the distributor | Aug 30 05:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's why Winamp makes their serial algorithm so easy to figure out | Aug 30 05:54 |
| _Hicham_ | but they didn't | Aug 30 05:54 |
| DaemonFC | the Pro version just covers the cost of the encoder licenses | Aug 30 05:55 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Aug 30 05:55 |
| _Hicham_ | they should do sthg about that | Aug 30 05:55 |
| DaemonFC | Winamp is owned by AOL | Aug 30 05:55 |
| _Hicham_ | by contributing to vorbis code base | Aug 30 05:55 |
| DaemonFC | they can't just pass out unlicensed codecs and get away with it like VLC can | Aug 30 05:55 |
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| _Hicham_ | instead of giving money to FhG and Thomson | Aug 30 05:55 |
| _Hicham_ | why VLC can ? | Aug 30 05:56 |
| DaemonFC | there's so much demand for MP3 that they can't just not support it | Aug 30 05:56 |
| DaemonFC | VLC as far as I know is a nonprofit | Aug 30 05:56 |
| DaemonFC | and I'm not sure where they are based | Aug 30 05:56 |
| DaemonFC | could easily be in a country that doesn't care about the patents | Aug 30 05:56 |
| yuhong | I just posted this about the history behind the idea that free is illegal. | Aug 30 05:57 |
| yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/27/free-is-illegal-says-msft/#comment-72851 | Aug 30 05:57 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : they are based in France | Aug 30 05:57 |
| _Hicham_ | in Paris | Aug 30 05:57 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know what the laws are like there | Aug 30 05:57 |
| DaemonFC | the guy that makes Foobar2000 is smarter about that, course he has to be since he's in the US | Aug 30 05:58 |
| yuhong | France is in the EU I think. | Aug 30 05:58 |
| DaemonFC | he only distributes decoders with Foobar2000 | Aug 30 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Mpeg is a interesting case. | Aug 30 05:58 |
| yuhong | And the EU do not allow software patents. | Aug 30 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | encoding support in Foobar2000 just passes command lines to a command line encoder | Aug 30 05:59 |
| oiaohm | There are legal questions that have not been tested that may mean that Mpeg patents are ruled out under entrapment. | Aug 30 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | so it'll ask you to provide Lame.exe or Oggenc2.exe or NeroAACEnc.exe | Aug 30 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | or whatever | Aug 30 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | but you can use any command line encoder with it | Aug 30 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | but since he doesn't provide them, they can't sue him | Aug 30 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Very few countries support software patents. | Aug 30 06:00 |
| DaemonFC | and technically, you can use the FhG encoder with it | Aug 30 06:00 |
| DaemonFC | which is free for personal use to make MP3s for your own music library | Aug 30 06:00 |
| DaemonFC | I've also played around with Real's Helix MP3 encoder | Aug 30 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Real has a Mp3 licence. | Aug 30 06:01 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Aug 30 06:01 |
| DaemonFC | Lame is just source code | Aug 30 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | but RareWares compiles them | Aug 30 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Lame is the source of mp3. | Aug 30 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | so does the guy running lame.bakerweb.biz | Aug 30 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | he has a script that build the version out of CVS every 3 days too | Aug 30 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | which is overkill since it can go months without changing lately | Aug 30 06:02 |
| oiaohm | I really would like to see if entrapment laws apply to patents. | Aug 30 06:02 |
| DaemonFC | entrapment? | Aug 30 06:03 |
| oiaohm | Because mp3 is a classic case of it. | Aug 30 06:03 |
| oiaohm | Mp3 source and spec was released to everyone without notice of possiable patent risk by the very people that took out the patents. | Aug 30 06:03 |
| DaemonFC | Fraunhofer started sending cease and desist orders out back in 1998 | Aug 30 06:03 |
| oiaohm | That is years latter. | Aug 30 06:04 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Aug 30 06:04 | |
| oiaohm | MP3 was first submited to the standard bodies in 1991. | Aug 30 06:05 |
| oiaohm | So almost 1/4 of the patent possiable live was gone by the time anyone tried using the patent. | Aug 30 06:05 |
| oiaohm | If mp3 got ruled as entrapment lot of other patents would also go by by. | Aug 30 06:06 |
| _Hicham_ | mp3 is the most used format for music | Aug 30 06:09 |
| _Hicham_ | and it will be for a long time | Aug 30 06:09 |
| oiaohm | That came into being from 1991 to 1997 when every though it was free can clear. | Aug 30 06:10 |
| yuhong | Well, the laches defence could be applied here. | Aug 30 06:10 |
| _Hicham_ | we don't hear music player, we hear : "mp3 player" | Aug 30 06:10 |
| oiaohm | Ie the entrapment. | Aug 30 06:10 |
| _Hicham_ | which talks of itself | Aug 30 06:10 |
| yuhong | http://www.wilmerhale.com/publications/whPubsDetail.aspx?publication=2359 | Aug 30 06:10 |
| oiaohm | Yep yuhong | Aug 30 06:10 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Aug 30 06:11 |
| oiaohm | Mp3 patents could be 100 percent void. | Aug 30 06:11 |
| oiaohm | just no one has taken it to court to find out. | Aug 30 06:11 |
| oiaohm | http://www.videolan.org/videolan/team/ VLC is in france were software patents don't apply. | Aug 30 06:13 |
| oiaohm | That is the other thing not sorted out. Do software patents apply to end users if software came from overseas. | Aug 30 06:14 |
| _Hicham_ | every country has its law | Aug 30 06:14 |
| oiaohm | Basically software patents are a huge mother of a mess. | Aug 30 06:14 |
| _Hicham_ | i don't think that international law includes software patents | Aug 30 06:15 |
| oiaohm | At least 12 test cases need to be done in every country with software patents to sort out the rules. | Aug 30 06:15 |
| oiaohm | international law does not include software patents because there is no agreement even on how long they should last. | Aug 30 06:15 |
| oiaohm | I always find it strange that DaemonFC seams to loss connection when arguement turns hot. | Aug 30 06:16 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC passed out from alcohol and marijuana | Aug 30 06:18 |
| _Hicham_ | software patents shouldn't exist | Aug 30 06:18 |
| _Hicham_ | they are an obstable to science | Aug 30 06:19 |
| oiaohm | Lets put it this way. Patents if they exist on any standard should have to be fully declared. | Aug 30 06:19 |
| oiaohm | Failure to do so should make the Patents invalid. | Aug 30 06:19 |
| oiaohm | In my eyes. | Aug 30 06:20 |
| oiaohm | Patent system would not be as big of problem if people were not always doing entrapment with patents. | Aug 30 06:20 |
| twitter1 | how about the multiple hundred million dollars Lucent got out of M$ over them? -> oiaohm: Mp3 patents could be 100 percent void. | Aug 30 06:20 |
| twitter1 | it would be nice if there were no software patents | Aug 30 06:21 |
| twitter1 | Credit card thief is guilty -> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aXHW5gbDC0EA | Aug 30 06:22 |
| yuhong | I know. | Aug 30 06:22 |
| twitter1 | I've not seen a good article on the place M$ and Windows have in this fraud. | Aug 30 06:23 |
| twitter1 | but it appears to be central -> In the new case, the hackers used software known as malware and so-called injection strings to attack the computers and steal data, prosecutors said. They installed “sniffer” programs to capture data “on a real-time basis” as it moved through the computer networks and used instant messaging services to advise each other on how to navigate the systems, according to the indictment. They also | Aug 30 06:24 |
| twitter1 | Windows, Windows and Windows. | Aug 30 06:25 |
| twitter1 | People, please stop using Windows for anything but games. | Aug 30 06:25 |
| yuhong | Well, this seems to be a targeted attack. | Aug 30 06:25 |
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| yuhong | And even though indeed Unix malware is less common than Windows malware, targeted attacks against Unix are much more common than Unix malware. | Aug 30 06:27 |
| yuhong | Thus Unix security is still important. | Aug 30 06:28 |
| yuhong | http://www.geekzone.co.nz/juha/840 | Aug 30 06:29 |
| _Hicham_ | twiiter1 : I use Linux for games | Aug 30 06:33 |
| _Hicham_ | I am playing a great Adventure Game on Linux | Aug 30 06:33 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the Penumbra Trilogy | Aug 30 06:33 |
| _Hicham_ | if anyone have heard of it | Aug 30 06:33 |
| _Hicham_ | works great | Aug 30 06:33 |
| yuhong | Well, yea Linux games are another mess altogether. | Aug 30 06:33 |
| _Hicham_ | yuhong : did you play that game ? | Aug 30 06:35 |
| _Hicham_ | actually I have three superb working games | Aug 30 06:35 |
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| _Hicham_ | Penumbra Trilogy, Cold War, and Postal2 | Aug 30 06:35 |
| _Hicham_ | all work great | Aug 30 06:35 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux not being done for gaming is just a myth | Aug 30 06:36 |
| _Hicham_ | you just need to install proprietary drivers in most of the cases | Aug 30 06:36 |
| omar | Hi all | Aug 30 06:36 |
| yuhong | No, but I have heard that id Software has de-emphesized Linux game ports. | Aug 30 06:36 |
| yuhong | And there is this infamous blog article by the developer of Braid: | Aug 30 06:37 |
| yuhong | http://braid-game.com/news/?p=364 | Aug 30 06:37 |
| yuhong | I don't play games often however. | Aug 30 06:37 |
| yuhong | I am no fan to games, I prefer to spend time reading and programming instead. | Aug 30 06:38 |
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| oiaohm | M$ did not try the entrapment line twitter1 | Aug 30 07:45 |
| oiaohm | It also was not in MS best interest to void the patent. | Aug 30 07:47 |
| oiaohm | Common argument since other people paid the patent is valid. | Aug 30 07:51 |
| oiaohm | History has a lot of invaid patents being paid for. | Aug 30 07:51 |
| oiaohm | Nice bit of patent law you get paid millions for a invalid patent you never have to pay it back. | Aug 30 07:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Off to Wings & Wheels at Dunsfold for a bit of fun with the boys in the family. http://www.wingsandwheels.net/ | Aug 30 07:53 | |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: thanks for reminding me Vista 7 ain't compatible with s* | Aug 30 09:29 |
| schestowitz | This is why AVERAGE (non-MSDN subs) will hate Vista 7.. some of them | Aug 30 09:29 |
| schestowitz | I can't wait till that turd is released in Oct. and the hype budgets runs out | Aug 30 09:29 |
| schestowitz | Give it till Jan 10 for people to speak louder against VIsta 7 than MS marketing | Aug 30 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Not bribed bloggers | Aug 30 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Not MSDN subs | Aug 30 09:30 |
| oiaohm | I have people running Windows 7. Ok nice little bug left it eats laptop batteries. | Aug 30 09:30 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Aug 30 09:34 |
| schestowitz | Reported some while ago | Aug 30 09:34 |
| schestowitz | I think I have it in the log | Aug 30 09:34 |
| schestowitz | Let me check to be sure | Aug 30 09:34 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Vista_7_Reality_Log | Aug 30 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Not sure, but I probably put it under one post or another\ | Aug 30 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Can't remember where | Aug 30 09:35 |
| schestowitz | Oh, here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/25/vista-7-campaign/ | Aug 30 09:36 |
| schestowitz | Mentions battery life | Aug 30 09:36 |
| schestowitz | I shall do some posts now :-) | Aug 30 09:37 |
| schestowitz | Been a while. | Aug 30 09:37 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEANo-opxwc&feature=related | Aug 30 09:41 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr5MCbIPPsA&NR=1&feature=fvwp | Aug 30 09:54 |
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| Eruaran | wow, clearly a lot of astroturfers on PC World | Aug 30 10:19 |
| Eruaran | I'm not even going to bother trying to argue with these parrots, just remind them that astroturfing is illegal in the US and Europe. | Aug 30 10:20 |
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| oiaohm | Yet a lot of astroturfing home base is the USA Eruaran | Aug 30 10:30 |
| oiaohm | Basically its illegal but in the USA no one has gone to jail for it so they keep on doing it. | Aug 30 10:31 |
| *Eruaran nods | Aug 30 10:35 | |
| oiaohm | If there home base is Europe they can be charged and will get fined for it. | Aug 30 10:43 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mainstream Media Finally Discovers Microsoft’s Anti-Google AstroTurf http://bit.ly/4ycHl1 | Aug 30 10:45 | |
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| schestowitz | Eruaran: PC World=IDG | Aug 30 10:49 |
| oiaohm | IDG=Pay enough money and we will say what you want even if its wrong and we had to cook the numbers to back it. | Aug 30 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: you mean IDC | Aug 30 11:20 |
| schestowitz | iDC is owned by IDG | Aug 30 11:20 |
| schestowitz | ANd IDG does adverts with Microsoft | Aug 30 11:20 |
| schestowitz | Look at the staffing (editorial) | Aug 30 11:20 |
| schestowitz | ZDNet and CNET are worse in that regard. They pick Microsoft employees even | Aug 30 11:20 |
| oiaohm | ZDNet and CNET are invaded systems. | Aug 30 11:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ha gente chata -> http://bit.ly/9R93u Ver comentários... http://ff.im/7nwM9 | Aug 30 11:21 | |
| oiaohm | One way IDC is better they need money to lie. | Aug 30 11:21 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Group from Boston That Makes Microsoft Scared (Not Novell) http://ping.fm/2yTjY | Aug 30 11:47 | |
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| trmanco | http://www.transmissionbt.com/ | Aug 30 12:32 |
| trmanco | new design | Aug 30 12:32 |
| trmanco | and a transmission update | Aug 30 12:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Já viram o novo design do transmissionbt.com? -> http://is.gd/2HqX1 | Aug 30 12:33 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: it's for Machs [sic] | Aug 30 12:36 |
| trmanco | ? | Aug 30 12:36 |
| oiaohm | transmissionbt vs deluge | Aug 30 12:37 |
| trmanco | transmission use to suck on early days | Aug 30 12:38 |
| trmanco | 1.06 was terrible | Aug 30 12:38 |
| ThistleWeb | one issue that drove me mental about transmission, was that when you selected individual files from a multi-file torrent, transmission would insist in partly downloading files you explicitly told it you didn't want too, taking up space | Aug 30 12:40 |
| ThistleWeb | leaving you having to delete stuff you'd already said you didn't want | Aug 30 12:41 |
| schestowitz | http://www.h-online.com/security/Attack-on-WPA-refined--/news/114105 | Aug 30 12:41 |
| schestowitz | Punditry: http://blog.internetnews.com/dneedle/2009/08/are-web-driven-multitaskers-su.html | Aug 30 12:42 |
| trmanco | when was that? | Aug 30 12:42 |
| trmanco | what version I mean | Aug 30 12:42 |
| ThistleWeb | it still happens in the current version | Aug 30 12:43 |
| schestowitz | A Twist In Namespaces http://phpbuilder.com/columns/marc_plotz008282009.php3 | Aug 30 12:43 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a long standing issue with transmission | Aug 30 12:43 |
| trmanco | I'm sure it will be fixed | Aug 30 12:44 |
| ThistleWeb | it means if you have a large torrent, you have to have the properties open to make sure you select all the stuff at 100% to copy out, and not everything in the folder | Aug 30 12:44 |
| oiaohm | The partly downloading the files you don't want do keep some bittorrent networks happy with you. | Aug 30 12:44 |
| ThistleWeb | even when it's unticked, and you've deleted it, it re-appears like a MS rep at a FOSS conference, uninvited, unwanted and irritating | Aug 30 12:45 |
| ThistleWeb | it wouldnt be so bad if it only used up the 2 or 3% file size, but it allocates the full file size, and only downloads a fraction of the file | Aug 30 12:47 |
| ThistleWeb | apart from that, transmission is quite nice | Aug 30 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Lack of cache is part of the cause of that problem. | Aug 30 12:49 |
| schestowitz | The U.S. versus Monsanto? http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/08/26/the_doj_versus_monsanto/index.html | Aug 30 12:59 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, Microsoft uses Novell as a ticket to these conferences | Aug 30 12:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody Axolotl verges on wild extinction - http://bit.ly/zSzXP oh no, one of my favourite animals (and words) #extinction | Aug 30 13:02 | |
| schestowitz | Estonia wants to host the EU's central database of personal data [German]: http://futurezone.orf.at/stories/1625043/ | Aug 30 13:03 |
| ThistleWeb | Estonia? EEK!! | Aug 30 13:04 |
| ThistleWeb | mind you, given the UK's recent history with IT privacy and competency, it may be in safer hands in Estonia | Aug 30 13:05 |
| schestowitz | Huge GSM flaw allows hackers to listen in on voice calls http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/08/25/huge-gsm-flaw-allows-hackers-to-listen-in-on-voice-calls | Aug 30 13:06 |
| schestowitz | Estonia was also downed by Microsoft zombies in 2007 | Aug 30 13:06 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah | Aug 30 13:07 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we can use transmission one day to download all the IDs and medical records of UK residents | Aug 30 13:07 |
| schestowitz | That's possible even now, I bet | Aug 30 13:07 |
| schestowitz | Imagine... | Aug 30 13:07 |
| schestowitz | millions of nodes going at it | Aug 30 13:07 |
| schestowitz | and the govt going frantic, knowing not what to do but "switch off" the internets [sic] | Aug 30 13:07 |
| ThistleWeb | not torrents, but plenty of p2p users cluelessly set their entire HD as a shared folder, private stuff included | Aug 30 13:07 |
| schestowitz | I'm surprised it hasn't happened yet at a large scale | Aug 30 13:08 |
| ThistleWeb | hence leaks about stuff like the pres's helecopter designs | Aug 30 13:08 |
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| omar87 | hi all. | Aug 30 13:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me vai a fonte... | Aug 30 13:20 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: Home Office data loss included drug records < http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39730190,00.htm > | Aug 30 13:23 |
| schestowitz | "oh noez! me viagr1!" | Aug 30 13:23 |
| schestowitz | welcome back, omar87 | Aug 30 13:23 |
| ThistleWeb | the HO do seem to be rather good at losing data | Aug 30 13:28 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* "BBC outsources tech news to Microsoft - http://bit.ly/dg3BO the story's obviously a fake, since the BBC did this *years* ago" http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/3600020842 | Aug 30 13:28 |
| schestowitz | It did | Aug 30 13:28 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8222873.stm "Olympic aim to get Britons online - http://bit.ly/j0gnj apart from the 7 million to be thrown off for filesharing" http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/3622517087 | Aug 30 13:32 |
| schestowitz | Roads are ruining the rainforests < http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327236.700-roads-are-ruining-the-rainforests.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > | Aug 30 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Ok how is that news Roads stuff rainforest up because loggers and other groups can get in and wild life does not have car sence. | Aug 30 13:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/08/27/the_recession_and_king_coal/index.html "The collapse of natural gas prices in the face of abundant supply, and astonishing projections for the amount of fuel that can be recovered in the future from shale formations, has been a big story this year. Climate activists are overcome with glee, because compared to coal, natural gas is a spick-and-span clean, low-carbon source of energy that can | Aug 30 13:39 |
| schestowitz | be counted on as a reliable backup to volatile wind and solar." | Aug 30 13:39 |
| oiaohm | shale oil is what Australia has huge stacks of on mainland. | Aug 30 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Very hard stuff to extract. | Aug 30 13:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How pollution may lead to hunger/suicide: "Indian farmer suicides continue over debt and poor rainfall" < http://ping.fm/tXldo > | Aug 30 13:41 | |
| schestowitz | http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/08/rms-1-symbolics-0.html | Aug 30 13:43 |
| schestowitz | \"Nowadays, many babble about RMS being not so great, being sexist, yadda, yadda... | Aug 30 13:43 |
| schestowitz | It's better to fancy an image of a younger RMS with teen-like energy, vowing to right things and keep the good ol' American thinking about freedom of ideas -- and discovering this is indeed fragile and has to be protected. | Aug 30 13:43 |
| schestowitz | Compare this to a younger Bill Gates with his manifesto full of... well, he was angry because people were taking his cheese." | Aug 30 13:43 |
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| schestowitz | "Two U.S. agencies have received nearly 2,200 applications asking for about $28 billion in funding for a first round of grants and loans for broadband deployment. The requests far outpace the $7.2 billion set aside for broadband deployment in a huge economic stimulus bill passed early this year." | Aug 30 13:47 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9137194/U.S._receives_2_200_applications_for_broadband_funding | Aug 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanite Oil fields not all are dead. | Aug 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Some are alive and growing. | Aug 30 13:47 |
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| oiaohm | Just not many. | Aug 30 13:47 |
| schestowitz | Australia is scarcely populated, so I doubt energy is an issue | Aug 30 13:48 |
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| oiaohm | Scarely populated is what makes energy a issue. Mostly cost. | Aug 30 13:49 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: http://www.thepublicdomain.org/2009/08/26/what-intellectual-property-law-should-learn-from-software/ http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2469&blogid=14 | Aug 30 13:50 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: but not supply | Aug 30 13:51 |
| schestowitz | Canada is similar. They have many potential energy sources | Aug 30 13:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ft.com/cms/s/239a27ea-8eb2-11de-87d0-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F239a27ea-8eb2-11de-87d0-00144feabdc0.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=&nclick_check=1 | Aug 30 13:52 |
| schestowitz | ^Microsoft ends "free" windows | Aug 30 13:52 |
| schestowitz | VERY good for Linux | Aug 30 13:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: Anvil! The Story Of Anvil http://bit.ly/R6uhc | Aug 30 13:53 | |
| schestowitz | Bugs and Fixes: A Rare Emergency Fix From Microsoft http://www.pcworld.com/article/170542/bugs_and_fixes_a_rare_emergency_fix_from_microsoft.html | Aug 30 13:55 |
| schestowitz | What the heck is "Microsoft Xbox certification"? http://www.2theadvocate.com/entertainment/55044827.html | Aug 30 13:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: The social history of the MP3. http://bit.ly/lgxvT | Aug 30 13:57 | |
| schestowitz | More clues about the special relationship between Microsoft and TG Daily: http://news.zergwatch.com/2009/08/23/microsoft-responds-to-xbox-failure-rate-claim-rrod/ | Aug 30 13:58 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: australia produces 80 percent of the oil we use. | Aug 30 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Wow. NOT a SIGNLE headline about Vista this week. | Aug 30 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Australian reserves for australia are still good for another 300 years. | Aug 30 14:04 |
| schestowitz | 11 for "dows 7" | Aug 30 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Without picking on the shale or locked off fields. | Aug 30 14:04 |
| MinceR | doze 7? | Aug 30 14:05 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: just filtering by headlines | Aug 30 14:07 |
| schestowitz | "dows" catches more | Aug 30 14:08 |
| MinceR | :) | Aug 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/170701/windows_7_starter_edition_is_too_wimpy_for_new_netbooks.html | Aug 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | "Sadly, many buyers will shell out $400 or so for a reasonably-powered netbook with a 10-inch display, only to learn they’ve been saddled with a feeble version of Windows 7. A classic bait-and-switch? It sure looks that way. It’s also a recipe for consumer ire. Nobody wants to pay a fairly significant sum for a consumer electronics device, only to learn they must pay an additional $80 for features they were expecting." | Aug 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | Wait for Vista 7 | Aug 30 14:08 |
| schestowitz | It'll be horrible | Aug 30 14:08 |
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| schestowitz | "Modern Windows(R)" | Aug 30 14:10 |
| MinceR | lol | Aug 30 14:10 |
| schestowitz | =pay $80 to connect to server | Aug 30 14:10 |
| schestowitz | "Windows Transaction Edition" | Aug 30 14:10 |
| schestowitz | It'll failk | Aug 30 14:10 |
| schestowitz | Like trying to compete against Google Apps _on the Web_ by charging all for subscription | Aug 30 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | 10 More Tech Company Photoshop Disasters < http://www.pcworld.com/article/170859/10_more_tech_company_photoshop_disasters.html > | Aug 30 14:37 |
| schestowitz | "It's amazing what they're doing with cell phone cameras these days. Forget pixel count, this mystery phone is so advanced that it can apparently zoom back and take a picture of itself, taking a picture of its subjects. No word on U.S. pricing or release date." | Aug 30 14:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Microsoft_Teaches_the_Public_That_Free_is_Illegal | Aug 30 14:52 |
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| oiaohm | Last one picks on google for photoshoping schestowitz | Aug 30 14:57 |
| oiaohm | What is kinda wrong thinking a lot of public air photos are edited. | Aug 30 14:57 |
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| twitter1 | Heh. Netbooks with Windows 7. What's really funny about that is that they don't have optical drives, so the victim can't "upgrade" it themselves without spending money on a tech or an external drive. | Aug 30 15:00 |
| twitter1 | chances are that no version of Windows 7 will actually work on netbooks. | Aug 30 15:00 |
| twitter1 | PC World races to M$'s defense with photochop blunders, ha ha. | Aug 30 15:01 |
| twitter1 | it's not racism to chose the race of people in your advertisement, I swear. Honest to God, no one's thinking about race at M$! | Aug 30 15:03 |
| twitter1 | magical zoom? lame, that's a normal looking picture. | Aug 30 15:04 |
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| twitter1 | laptop chop, also lame. they replaced the laptop image - fair game. | Aug 30 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Is Your PC Bot-Infested? Here's How to Tell | Aug 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/170546/is_your_pc_botinfested_heres_how_to_tell.html | Aug 30 15:08 |
| twitter1 | M$'s blunder is just the latest in a long line of abuse. Like firing an employee for taking pictures of Apple computer delivery and the infamous "Apple Switcher" they created from stock photos. | Aug 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | How to remove zombies... install Linux? | Aug 30 15:09 |
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| twitter1 | What's the latest Windoze half life on a network? The last time I saw, it was around 4 minutes. | Aug 30 15:10 |
| twitter1 | It's been shorter than the time it takes to download patches for a long time. | Aug 30 15:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] just voted "Ass, legs" on "Wich part of my body u like the most??? LOOOL xD" vote too ➔ http://bit.ly/171F68 | Aug 30 15:10 | |
| twitter1 | What's the most beautiful thing on a person? | Aug 30 15:11 |
| twitter1 | their smile | Aug 30 15:11 |
| DaemonFC | the new network stack has cut down on my connection latency a little I believe | Aug 30 15:12 |
| twitter1 | Even if you measure the p0wn half life of windows in days, virtually all windows PCs will be p0wned by the end of the month. | Aug 30 15:13 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1: funny how I've never had my system turned into a zombie | Aug 30 15:14 |
| DaemonFC | maybe that's because I don't automagically just trust any bit of no named freeware from god knows where | Aug 30 15:14 |
| twitter1 | The computer desk photochop is funny but at least a decade old. | Aug 30 15:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Just posted "Todos :-P" on http://bit.ly/171F68 | Aug 30 15:15 | |
| twitter1 | I must be the only person on Earth with enough patience to look trough this lame PC World defense of M$. | Aug 30 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | I keep the Windows Live Messenger ad server in my hosts file resolving to 127.0.0.1 | Aug 30 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 30 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | and I keep a spyware blacklist using ActiveX killbits | Aug 30 15:16 |
| DaemonFC | I'm actually very concerned about anything that "phones home", about the only things that can actually send any information to a Microsoft server in the background are Automatic Updates if you leave them on, or the NTP service | Aug 30 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | you can turn either of those off | Aug 30 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | or use a different network time server | Aug 30 15:18 |
| twitter1 | painting loaded with as many images of vulva as possible to sell a game - rude but intentional. | Aug 30 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Media Player can grab album art and update your tags, but that's opt-in | Aug 30 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | lets see.....Windows Defender has an explicit opt-in that you can use to report what it did with spyware | Aug 30 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Live Messenger sends what version of Windows you have and if the installation succeeded or failed | Aug 30 15:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] just voted "every part :D" on "Wich part of my body u like the most??? LOOOL xD" vote too ➔ http://bit.ly/171F68 | Aug 30 15:21 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Just posted "ok, every part " on http://bit.ly/171F68 | Aug 30 15:21 | |
| DaemonFC | WGA checks are done manually by the user with a standalone tool that doesn't send MS anything except a ping to make sure it's the latest version | Aug 30 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | then you paste the code it generated | Aug 30 15:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is going to relax and see a movie | Aug 30 15:22 | |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Confused By Race, PCs and Macs http://www.crn.com/hardware/219500305;jsessionid=K1P45SNYVXYRTQE1GHRSKHWATMY32JVN | Aug 30 15:27 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: let's not bring WIndows jargon into it | Aug 30 15:28 |
| schestowitz | Why don't you use Linux? | Aug 30 15:28 |
| twitter1 | I give up on that PC World article. It's java script sucks life and the article itself is really lame. | Aug 30 15:30 |
| twitter1 | Nice RMS clip, Roy. | Aug 30 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. | Aug 30 15:30 |
| schestowitz | I was looking for a different one | Aug 30 15:30 |
| schestowitz | For another purpose | Aug 30 15:31 |
| schestowitz | It's hard to search for videos you watched before | Aug 30 15:31 |
| schestowitz | No trascripts | Aug 30 15:31 |
| schestowitz | *nsc | Aug 30 15:31 |
| twitter1 | there's something that RMS does not argue that can be. People can and do make a good living working on free software. | Aug 30 15:31 |
| twitter1 | There will always be a living in things that are useful. | Aug 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | Here's a good read: | Aug 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/49918/Microsoft-Destroyed-FASAs-Development-Culture | Aug 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | http://play.tm/news/26411/fasa-founder-accuses-microsoft/ | Aug 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | If you can comment on it, I'll weave in with next post | Aug 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | twitter: more to the point re: rms interview | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | How many Microsofts are there? | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | How many proprietary sw companies turn a profit (never mind fortune)? | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Very few. | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | VC gambles | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Esp. these days | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | COmpanies like Google are the ones to rise | Aug 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Semi-open | Aug 30 15:33 |
| twitter1 | RMS has commented on the poor economics of non free software before. | Aug 30 15:33 |
| twitter1 | In the case of Maxsima, most of the companies formed to steal the public domain source code failed. | Aug 30 15:34 |
| twitter1 | this is an important lesson | Aug 30 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The one company that does routinely make Linux games has a product activator | Aug 30 15:36 |
| DaemonFC | and requires you to have an internet connection when they phone home every 14 days | Aug 30 15:36 |
| DaemonFC | (or all the games stop working) | Aug 30 15:37 |
| MinceR | LGP doesn't do that | Aug 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | LMAO http://gcn.com/articles/2009/08/26/microsoft-app-compatibility-support.aspx | Aug 30 15:38 |
| schestowitz | They know Vista 7 will fail | Aug 30 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Compatibility issues. | Aug 30 15:38 |
| schestowitz | "However, those beset by such problems need to be prepared to open their wallets to get such support. Microsoft's Advisory Services help costs $210 per hour and is available for up to 20 hours. The program doesn't provide any on-site support." | Aug 30 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=lgp_copy_protection&num=1 | Aug 30 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | spyware and product activators come to you courtesy of LGP | Aug 30 15:38 |
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| *omar has quit (Client Quit) | Aug 30 15:39 | |
| DaemonFC | so your DRM opt-in fallacy now applies to native Linux software | Aug 30 15:39 |
| MinceR | i missed that | Aug 30 15:39 |
| MinceR | so now i'll have to find cracks even if i buy something from LGP | Aug 30 15:40 |
| MinceR | that's great. | Aug 30 15:40 |
| MinceR | i guess some companies never learn | Aug 30 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | DRM opt-in fallacy: "You have the CHOICE, the choice to install our DRM, or not access your data" | Aug 30 15:40 |
| MinceR | :) | Aug 30 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they've been DRMing their games for almost a year now | Aug 30 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | and refer to people who use unlicensed copies as "pirates" | Aug 30 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | they're as bad as EA Games | Aug 30 15:41 |
| schestowitz | I've found a job for ryan: http://www.thetechherald.com/article.php/200935/4288/Microsoft-issues-the-call-for-official-store-staff | Aug 30 15:41 |
| MinceR | well, i guess that means i don't have to pay for games for a while :> | Aug 30 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | to justify the DRM, Linux Game Publishing did an "experiment" | Aug 30 15:41 |
| DaemonFC | they said they uploaded a deliberately crippled game to Bittorrent trackers with a bug that made it crash on a certain point | Aug 30 15:42 |
| twitter1 | Hmph. M$ tries to use the "too big to fail" defense in the i4i case. | Aug 30 15:42 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Issues Out-of-Cycle Updates, Zero-Day Fixes http://www.hardocp.com/news/2009/08/22/microsoft_issues_outofcycle_updates_zeroday_fixes/ | Aug 30 15:42 |
| DaemonFC | and found that they were receiving support calls from people who had downloaded their games off bittorrent | Aug 30 15:42 |
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| twitter1 | if they get their 120 extension or plain off the hook, it wil really stink. | Aug 30 15:43 |
| Omar871 | Hi all | Aug 30 15:43 |
| twitter1 | smaller companies get wiped out by bogus patents and defending themselves all the time, but M$ gets let off so Dell and HP won't suffer? Give me a break. | Aug 30 15:43 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft should be denied the use of language like "genuine advantage", which is Orwellian lies: http://www.financialexpress.com/news/microsoft-launches-office-genuine-advantage-in-india/507883/ | Aug 30 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Technically that's not an IE security issue | Aug 30 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | the killbit just adds a flag in the registry that says the affected plugins are not compatible with IE | Aug 30 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | if you don't have any plugins that were created with that version of their toolkit, you wouldn't be affected anyway | Aug 30 15:45 |
| twitter1 | Windows 7 backward compatibility is now a "profit center" | Aug 30 15:46 |
| twitter1 | ha ha | Aug 30 15:46 |
| twitter1 | thanks for the link, Roy. | Aug 30 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | that's one reason why Sun Java is dangerous | Aug 30 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | it not only has all of its own security flaws, but when it's running in IE it's an ActiveX control that may have been made with the affected toolkit | Aug 30 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Names Top Ten Windows Malware < http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352207,00.asp > | Aug 30 15:48 |
| schestowitz | twitter: security too | Aug 30 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | the only good part about that is that in Vista or Server 2008 or later, Java would be constrained by the "Protected Mode" global low privilege settings for IE | Aug 30 15:49 |
| schestowitz | Make software less secure, then charge for security | Aug 30 15:49 |
| schestowitz | Likewise for compatibility | Aug 30 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | That's one reason why they have to keep issuing so many emergency patches for Firefox on Windows | Aug 30 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | Mozilla won't support the "protected mode" low integrity process token | Aug 30 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | anything that connects to the internet ideally would | Aug 30 15:50 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s Vista service pack, er, ‘Windows 7’ can’t compete < http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/22205/ > | Aug 30 15:50 |
| schestowitz | THose fools are also free advertisers for Apple | Aug 30 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox actually still works even if you flag it as a low integrity process yourself, but it throws bogus errors on startup | Aug 30 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | Opera works fine in that configuration though | Aug 30 15:51 |
| twitter1 | Vista 7 failure log updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Aug 30 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | they're both already running as "Standard User" anyway, which shouldn't let them do damage past your User folder, but defining where they have write access contains any possible damage much further | Aug 30 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | ideally, only their settings and cache folders | Aug 30 15:53 |
| twitter1 | Security as an "add on" just like Works to Office. You can spend more but you will never get where you are going. | Aug 30 15:54 |
| twitter1 | That's been the M$ business model all along. | Aug 30 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | stupidity is the cause of most Firefox vulnerabilities, especially the ones exclusive to Windows | Aug 30 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | because there's just no reason for it to happen | Aug 30 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | they couldn't contain it when it's running on XP, but they could protect users of later Windows versions with a simple patch that would take them about 10 minutes to write and 10 minutes to test | Aug 30 15:55 |
| MinceR | which would make it more secure for all 3 vista users? :> | Aug 30 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of their vulnerabilities have to do with the insane privilege level of extensions and plugins, they're still using the Netscape Plugin API which is simple and stupid and essentially you just have to trust the plugin to not do anything bad because there aren't any safeguards | Aug 30 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | and extensions are basically a way to write a program that runs in the browser out of scripts, style sheets, and XUL and it's also just as bad as running a native program for your platform with the rights of the logged in user | Aug 30 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | people were complaining for years about Microsoft shipping things like this | Aug 30 15:58 |
| MinceR | you mean RadioActiveX? | Aug 30 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | apparently it's OK when Mozilla rolls out the red carpet for bad guys, to be fair, I think they actually do check most of the stuff that ends up on their official add-on site | Aug 30 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Firefox extensions and plugins are actually jsut as bad if not worse than ActiveX controls | Aug 30 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | the only thing that keeps drive by downloads from happening on Firefox like they did on IE 6 is that by default, you can only install add-ons from addons.mozilla.org | Aug 30 16:00 |
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| MinceR | i've explained already why this argument of yours is without merit | Aug 30 16:00 |
| MinceR | i will not repeat myself. | Aug 30 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | it's not without merit, the basic security architecture of Firefox is that there isn't one | Aug 30 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | they designed it to be extensible, not secure | Aug 30 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | (You really can't always have both) | Aug 30 16:01 |
| MinceR | once again, you're confusing things installed by the user with things that show up on random webpages visited by the user. | Aug 30 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: And if they weren't as fast as they usually are with patches, then they would have serious levels of infestations | Aug 30 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | because all it takes it one decent remote vulnerability and they can do a drive by download | Aug 30 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | *is | Aug 30 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox is a sieve, and you don't need to look any further than what they've patched to tell that much | Aug 30 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's probably only in contest with IE on XP for most remote security holes | Aug 30 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva 2010 Beta ships with Epiphany using Webkit now btw | Aug 30 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | so sooner or later, GNOME and Mandriva will have removed their Gecko/Xulrunner dependencies and everything that needs a rendering engine will all be Webkit based | Aug 30 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | Apple had the choice of using Gecko or extending KHTML several years ago and their reason for going with KHTML was that the source code was clean, efficient, and easy to audit | Aug 30 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | Gecko was not | Aug 30 16:07 |
| twitter1 | The Slashdot article on M$ screws Google is full of troll comment pyramids. | Aug 30 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | I think browsers based on Webkit are probably the future of Linux distributions | Aug 30 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | It certainly would suit Debian's lifecycle much better than Gecko | Aug 30 16:09 |
| MinceR | /. is in a sad state now | Aug 30 16:10 |
| MinceR | i don't even bother to read the comments now. | Aug 30 16:10 |
| twitter1 | It's nice to see the mainstream press understanding this issue. Wired covered it earlier http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/20/1310200 | Aug 30 16:10 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: well, we don't have to have only one. we can choose. :> | Aug 30 16:10 |
| twitter1 | and, of course, Roy has been doing excellent astroturf exposure for a long time. | Aug 30 16:10 |
| MinceR | it would be nice to be able to tell a browser which rendering engine to use per tab. | Aug 30 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | I mean per default, and to integrate things like Yelp (Help system) and for things like Mandriva Control Center | Aug 30 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | Gecko is just too heavy and too insecure, it adds a lot of baggage to the system | Aug 30 16:11 |
| twitter1 | eh, just run multiple browsers in your virtual desktops. | Aug 30 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: There's IETab for Firefox :) | Aug 30 16:11 |
| MinceR | i was thinking more along the lines of gecko/webkit/dillo/links2 | Aug 30 16:12 |
| twitter1 | if publishers would just stick to standards all of the browsers wold work | Aug 30 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | Adobe CS3 was using Opera as a rendering engine | Aug 30 16:12 |
| MinceR | twitter1: except for IE. :> | Aug 30 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | CS4 is using Webkit now though' | Aug 30 16:12 |
| MinceR | hm, opera would be nice as an option, if it's possible. | Aug 30 16:12 |
| twitter1 | I use right click "open in" for pages that give Konq problems | Aug 30 16:12 |
| twitter1 | opera and IE run in wine should both work with Konq's right click - but you might have to set it yourself. | Aug 30 16:13 |
| twitter1 | all the rest are fixed by your distro automatically | Aug 30 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | Why would you run Opera in Wine? | Aug 30 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | it runs natively on Linux | Aug 30 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | IE in Wine is mostly for developers checking their pages (or amusement) | Aug 30 16:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tellus-international-and-the-york-group-announce-a-global-strategic-alliance-to-deliver-a-comprehensive-growth-services-offering-to-the-microsoft-partner-community-2009-08-25 | Aug 30 16:15 |
| schestowitz | For a moment there I thought it was York Capital... :-) | Aug 30 16:15 |
| twitter1 | Roy, we need to kill the popularity myth. | Aug 30 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | I've never used IE for more than maybe 20-30 minutes every time there's a new version | Aug 30 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | I just cannot stand it | Aug 30 16:15 |
| twitter1 | gnu/linux is not secure because of obscurity and because people don't use it. | Aug 30 16:15 |
| twitter1 | it's secure because it's good quality code and it's diverse | Aug 30 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1: People use the lack of worms to try and connect the dots to "Linux is secure" | Aug 30 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | without even bothering to secure it | Aug 30 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu doesn't even ship with the firewall on | Aug 30 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | if you use a port scanner, Ubuntu will reply to things like pings by telling you if the port is open or not | Aug 30 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | (which is braindead stupid and even Microsoft stopped doing THAT in 2004) | Aug 30 16:17 |
| twitter1 | free software has fewer errors than non free code, is generally more efficient so less code is used for any given purpose and it does not contain user hostile operations, like autorun and executables in media files. | Aug 30 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | hah | Aug 30 16:18 |
| MinceR | last time i checked, ubuntu kept no ports open by default | Aug 30 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | I've seen some pretty horrendous software from both categories | Aug 30 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox is about like the second coming of MSIE, for Linux users | Aug 30 16:18 |
| twitter1 | open ports are just another user hostile op | Aug 30 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox being used by default in GNOME distributions is almost good enough reason by itself to use KDE isntead | Aug 30 16:19 |
| twitter1 | free software architecture and distribution diversity are also very helpful and complement the natural diversity of the Linux kernel itself. | Aug 30 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | there's no good reason why open source would by nature be more secure | Aug 30 16:19 |
| MinceR | there are reasons why it is. | Aug 30 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | you're implying that all programmers that work on any closed source software are idiots that put in blatant security flaws | Aug 30 16:20 |
| MinceR | of course someone who lives with closed eyes is unaware of them. | Aug 30 16:20 |
| twitter1 | this is in marked contrast to the Windows monoculture, where every machine loads the same i386 drivers in exactly the same locations | Aug 30 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | and that Linux has *never* had a bug | Aug 30 16:20 |
| MinceR | no, i'm not | Aug 30 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | and you're just not telling the truth there | Aug 30 16:20 |
| MinceR | you're putting words in my mouth. | Aug 30 16:20 |
| MinceR | that's a pretty poor troll tactic. | Aug 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | It's design | Aug 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | Not the "open source" bit | Aug 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | UNIX | Aug 30 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | I was talking to twitter1 | Aug 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | UNIX didn't suffer from W0rms like Win32 did | Aug 30 16:20 |
| twitter1 | no, Roy, it's both. | Aug 30 16:21 |
| twitter1 | Freedom complements the good design of Unix. | Aug 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | Shouldv'e said "not _jUST_:" | Aug 30 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: That day is coming if Ubuntu is being rolled out like it is for small web servers | Aug 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | *should've | Aug 30 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | it's pretty easy to misconfigure a web server running on Linux | Aug 30 16:22 |
| twitter1 | it's disappointing to see Boycott Novell pass on the popularity myth without comment. | Aug 30 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | it's pretty easy to misconfigure a web server perioud | Aug 30 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | *period | Aug 30 16:22 |
| twitter1 | first link http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/30/security-why-gnu-linux/ | Aug 30 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | there's plenty of 0day vulnerabilities in Linux | Aug 30 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | people don't report them because they want to use them | Aug 30 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | they save them for when it's worth exposing | Aug 30 16:23 |
| twitter1 | every time a Windows user reads that, they think that moving to free software is not worth their effort | Aug 30 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: That hacked police dept website you posted the other day said that much | Aug 30 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | something like "We could root them but why expose one of our Linux 0days just for these people?" | Aug 30 16:24 |
| twitter1 | "by the time I get there it will suck just like Windows does, so why bother?" - that's the point of this particular lie | Aug 30 16:24 |
| twitter1 | they have used the same lie against Netscape and Apple. | Aug 30 16:24 |
| twitter1 | I've been hearing it for more than 12 years. | Aug 30 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1: Linux architecture goes against secure system design | Aug 30 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | right down to the way drivers are handled | Aug 30 16:25 |
| twitter1 | The promised wave of malware only ever arrives on Windows. | Aug 30 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | it's a damned miracle nothing large scale has happened yet | Aug 30 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | I happen to like Andrew Tanenbaum's MINIX design concepts a lot better | Aug 30 16:26 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: time for you to look at the design of windows. get some perspective. | Aug 30 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | Windows is moving more drivers out to user space every release | Aug 30 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | most of the audio stack and some parts of the video drivers and most of the networking are user space now | Aug 30 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | the application compatibility hacks are in their own directory and not part of the kernel anymore | Aug 30 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | of course their reasons are hardly altruistic | Aug 30 16:29 |
| MinceR | as opposed to... ? | Aug 30 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | it does make for a far more secure system, but it also makes it easier for things like DRM to operate | Aug 30 16:29 |
| MinceR | parts of alsa are user-space. most of X is user-space. | Aug 30 16:29 |
| twitter1 | I hate it when people try to "be fair" like this -> With billions of dollars at stake, the sophisticated D.C. operations and message machines are an inevitable result of Google and Microsoft's epic struggle for dominance | Aug 30 16:29 |
| MinceR | (and more of it goes to user-space since KMS) | Aug 30 16:29 |
| twitter1 | Google is big on the web but it's just another website. | Aug 30 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: I suggest you read a little about MINIX | Aug 30 16:30 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: i know what minix is. | Aug 30 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | driver crashes that would bring Linux down in a split second wouldn't even affect MINIX | Aug 30 16:30 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: you brought it up. | Aug 30 16:30 |
| twitter1 | M$ fucks hardware itself, web standards and the whole market. | Aug 30 16:30 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: that's true of all microkernel systems. | Aug 30 16:30 |
| twitter1 | there's no comparing the two companies | Aug 30 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | system services that fall over a and die on Linux are resurrected immediately by MINIX if they stop responding | Aug 30 16:30 |
| twitter1 | Google's efforts, even in bringing out an OS, are mostly monopoly escape measures. | Aug 30 16:31 |
| MinceR | which doesn't make windows any better than linux. | Aug 30 16:31 |
| twitter1 | Windows blows chunks. | Aug 30 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | I still do like MINIX and it would be nice as a production OS rather than just a research one | Aug 30 16:31 |
| twitter1 | no security, no virtual desktops, no stability. it's nearly impossible to use | Aug 30 16:31 |
| twitter1 | total garbage | Aug 30 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | I've ran it on some pretty minimal hardware that Linux would have no chance on | Aug 30 16:32 |
| MinceR | i'd like to see GNU/Hurd as a production OS. | Aug 30 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | with X and Equinox loaded too | Aug 30 16:32 |
| twitter1 | that would be nice | Aug 30 16:32 |
| twitter1 | a gpl3 kernel | Aug 30 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | well, HURD is as old as I am | Aug 30 16:32 |
| MinceR | though i guess most of the things i liked about its description are natural consequences of using a microkernel system. | Aug 30 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | and it still doesn't really work | Aug 30 16:32 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: so? | Aug 30 16:32 |
| twitter1 | I have to thank Lefty for showing the benefits of GPL3. | Aug 30 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Maybe by 2050 at this rate | Aug 30 16:33 |
| twitter1 | the market is flooded with GNU/Linux devices that users have no hope of modifying. | Aug 30 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | we'll have flying cars before we have GNU/HURD | Aug 30 16:33 |
| twitter1 | cell phones, and tivo like devices are big offenders | Aug 30 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | so? | Aug 30 16:33 |
| twitter1 | the FSF was right on target | Aug 30 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | I don't care about modifying my cell phone because I don't need to | Aug 30 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I pay them to do | Aug 30 16:34 |
| MinceR | and do they do everything you want them to? | Aug 30 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | indeed they do | Aug 30 16:34 |
| MinceR | you're lucky to have so few needs. | Aug 30 16:34 |
| twitter1 | people should work hard to port linux drivers to hurd and make hurd a viable option | Aug 30 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | well, that won't happen | Aug 30 16:35 |
| twitter1 | hurd and gpl3 can be a great market differentiator | Aug 30 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | if HURD wasn't licensed like it is, then maybe it wouldn't scare every company on Earth away | Aug 30 16:36 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: could you lend us your crystal ball? | Aug 30 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | GPL3 is a piss poor license, it's designed to make any project that needs commercial backing fail | Aug 30 16:36 |
| twitter1 | Anyone who thinks Windows has a future needs to get out of the fortune telling business. | Aug 30 16:36 |
| MinceR | no, it's designed to protect the freedom of the users. | Aug 30 16:36 |
| MinceR | and the freedom of the developers. | Aug 30 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, freedom to not have any drivers | Aug 30 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | enjoy that, tell me how it goes | Aug 30 16:37 |
| MinceR | before getting too flippant, you should take the time to understand what i said. | Aug 30 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | if it doesn't boot up and if it doesn't recognize anything you have even if it does, the result is the same as never having even started the project | Aug 30 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | cause nobody can use it anyway | Aug 30 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | their ideals are good but their pragmatism is lacking | Aug 30 16:38 |
| twitter1 | people who believe in free markets should be opposed to software patents and in favor of gpl3 | Aug 30 16:38 |
| twitter1 | software patents are an ugly state intrusion on free markets | Aug 30 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | of course they are | Aug 30 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | the only people that really win with software patents are lawyers | Aug 30 16:39 |
| MinceR | people should also be opposed to tivoization. | Aug 30 16:39 |
| twitter1 | they are intellectual monopolies that harm everyone's freedom, users, developers, even non free software owners | Aug 30 16:39 |
| twitter1 | i4i what a great name | Aug 30 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | software patents are Everybody vs. Everybody and the lawyers ALWAYS get their cut | Aug 30 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | i4i is a patent troll | Aug 30 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | but they went after microsoft so you support them | Aug 30 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | when it's SCO, patents are bad | Aug 30 16:40 |
| MinceR | m$ deserves to have a taste of their own medicine. | Aug 30 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | when it's i4i, patents are good | Aug 30 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | am I right? :) | Aug 30 16:40 |
| MinceR | if they're killed by their own tactics, it's all the better. | Aug 30 16:41 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.146.54.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 16:41 | |
| DaemonFC | it would be hilarious but it wouldn't fix the problem MinceR | Aug 30 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't work like that | Aug 30 16:41 |
| twitter1 | M$ has eaten a lot of it's own medicine. PJ has a nice list of M$ lawsuits | Aug 30 16:41 |
| MinceR | it would fix one of the problems | Aug 30 16:41 |
| MinceR | there are a couple of problems in the field of IT | Aug 30 16:41 |
| MinceR | m$ is one of them. | Aug 30 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | even if Microsoft collapses, the software patent ssytem is still there | Aug 30 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | and they'd jsut be replaced by something as bad | Aug 30 16:41 |
| twitter1 | M$ has traditionally survived by using it's monopoly rents, but their cash is all gone now | Aug 30 16:42 |
| MinceR | then we have to continue fighting the sw patent system... and whatever comes into m$'s place. | Aug 30 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | you're saying you'd rather pop an aspirin to cover up the symptom instead of the disease | Aug 30 16:42 |
| MinceR | in any case, i doubt anything that comes into m$'s place can be nearly as powerful | Aug 30 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | *instead of curing the disease that is | Aug 30 16:42 |
| MinceR | no, not really | Aug 30 16:42 |
| twitter1 | so big hits like the i4i case will really hurt now. the business was never sustainable | Aug 30 16:42 |
| MinceR | i'm saying that both diseases need to be cured. | Aug 30 16:42 |
| MinceR | (also, your analog fails) | Aug 30 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | so if Microsoft tanks and the software patent system and all the patent trolls are still out there | Aug 30 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | what happens? | Aug 30 16:43 |
| MinceR | we'll have one less problem on our hands, that's what. | Aug 30 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | no, what would happen is probably that Apple would cannibalize most of Microsoft's marketshare in the consumer market | Aug 30 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | and have no competition | Aug 30 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | so instead of a couple bad guys fighting each other you'd just create one all powerful bad guy | Aug 30 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft collapsing would just leave a power vacuum | Aug 30 16:45 |
| twitter1 | Obama pledges to loosen up Katrina money. http://voices.kansascity.com/node/5659 | Aug 30 16:47 |
| twitter1 | that would be nice | Aug 30 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | I thought it was already pretty loosened up | Aug 30 16:47 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-233-208.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 16:47 | |
| DaemonFC | to all the contractors who donated generously to election campaigns | Aug 30 16:47 |
| twitter1 | Billions of dollars were allocated but never spent. | Aug 30 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | or maybe Obama is just sending it to his contributors now instead of Bush's | Aug 30 16:48 |
| schestowitz | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090830/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_olmert_2 Former Israeli prime minister Olmert indicted | Aug 30 16:48 |
| *amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Aug 30 16:48 | |
| schestowitz | The current one if a former felon too | Aug 30 16:48 |
| schestowitz | People there seem able to elect criminals to run the country | Aug 30 16:49 |
| MinceR | crApple can't get into the business market so they'd be pretty powerless in the consumer market too. | Aug 30 16:49 |
| MinceR | also, they'd have to lose their "different" image to gain dominance in a market. | Aug 30 16:49 |
| MinceR | but yes, we need to fight crApple, too. | Aug 30 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | Hope, Change = RIAA officials in the Justice Dept. and escalating the war in Afghanistan | Aug 30 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | woohoo | Aug 30 16:49 |
| twitter1 | fraud is petty crime in a land of mass murder | Aug 30 16:49 |
| MinceR | they stand against everything that computing is about. | Aug 30 16:49 |
| schestowitz | AT least Obama and others are less avert when it come to bribery and such | Aug 30 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: They're every bit as crooked as Bush's guys | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | At least there's trial | Aug 30 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | just owe favors to different bad guys in some cases | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | When will Bush be brought to courts? | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Bush and his Duck (Cheney)? | Aug 30 16:50 |
| twitter1 | we shall see | Aug 30 16:50 |
| MinceR | never? | Aug 30 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | they won't | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | That'll be bad for PR | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | The US is a PR nation | Aug 30 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | we're not turning over a former US president to anyone | Aug 30 16:50 |
| MinceR | or when the current corrupt society we have is finally destroyed? | Aug 30 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Can't hold rich and powerfful to the law | Aug 30 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | hell, I wouldn't even give them Clinton | Aug 30 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Not even other white-collar criminals like Gates and Ballmer | Aug 30 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Among many others | Aug 30 16:51 |
| schestowitz | bbl | Aug 30 16:51 |
| schestowitz | g2g | Aug 30 16:51 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to MinceR | Aug 30 16:51 | |
| twitter1 | me too | Aug 30 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | Spain is just going to embarrass itself if it even asks for him | Aug 30 16:51 |
| *twitter1 has quit ("Leaving.") | Aug 30 16:52 | |
| *MinceR sets ban on *!*i=opera@*.hsd1.in.comcast.net | Aug 30 16:53 | |
| *MinceR has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (persona non grata) | Aug 30 16:53 | |
| Diablo-D3 | ugh, he was back again? | Aug 30 16:56 |
| *DaemonFC (i=none@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 16:57 | |
| *MinceR sets ban on *!*@*.hsd1.in.comcast.net | Aug 30 16:57 | |
| *MinceR has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (ban evasion) | Aug 30 16:57 | |
| *MinceR removes ban on *!*i=opera@*.hsd1.in.comcast.net | Aug 30 16:57 | |
| MinceR | schestowitz keeps unbanning him | Aug 30 16:58 |
| MinceR | and then he keeps coming back and trolling | Aug 30 16:58 |
| cubezzz | he seems to be almost a microsoft apologist | Aug 30 17:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: do me a favor | Aug 30 17:01 |
| MinceR | almost? | Aug 30 17:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: stop being a fag | Aug 30 17:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: I agree | Aug 30 17:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | if he wasnt such a goddamned troll, he would be | Aug 30 17:01 |
| cubezzz | I was invited to a Microsoft event about Sharepoint and powershell yesterday | Aug 30 17:06 |
| cubezzz | had to decline :) | Aug 30 17:06 |
| cubezzz | not even sure what Sharepoint is | Aug 30 17:06 |
| cubezzz | it's a bit of a drag that most of my friends who are in IT are Microsoft users | Aug 30 17:07 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-216-102.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 17:17 | |
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| ThistleWeb | I wonder if he's a bit on an inbetweenie, too FOSS for the MS fanbois to accept him, and too MS for the FOSS peeps to accept him, and he gets a tad confuzled trying to seek attention in both camps to find himself constantly banned | Aug 30 17:29 |
| ThistleWeb | I'd imagine someone with XP in one of their nicks, who seems to slink back into the habit of trolling on behalf of MS may be a clue as to his intentions | Aug 30 17:30 |
| ThistleWeb | would a Linux user use a Windows product name? | Aug 30 17:31 |
| ThistleWeb | would someone who's in for a chat have several names to keep switching when one is banned? | Aug 30 17:31 |
| *Diablo-D3 is now known as eXPerience | Aug 30 17:32 | |
| eXPerience | bwahhahahahaha | Aug 30 17:32 |
| *eXPerience is now known as Diablo-D3 | Aug 30 17:32 | |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Aug 30 17:32 |
| ThistleWeb | how sad do you need to be to spend hours changing nicks to get back into somewhere you're constantly pissing off and getting banned? | Aug 30 17:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | I bet hes even banned from 4chan | Aug 30 17:33 |
| ThistleWeb | more to the point, why the hell does the ban get lifted at all? | Aug 30 17:33 |
| ThistleWeb | he don't learn. He's not the accidental victim.....it's what he lives for, he will do it again and again if he's allowed. It's like the abusive hubby | Aug 30 17:34 |
| ThistleWeb | I reckon he's just desperate for attention, and causing fights is how he achieves it | Aug 30 17:35 |
| MinceR | which is pretty much what trolls are | Aug 30 17:35 |
| ThistleWeb | it's understandable why he craves attention if he keeps getting kicked out of places | Aug 30 17:38 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Aug 30 17:51 | |
| ThistleWeb | the social skills of a teaspoon | Aug 30 17:52 |
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| MinceR | that's pretty demeaning of teaspoons :> | Aug 30 17:53 |
| ThistleWeb | lol, true, my bad | Aug 30 17:53 |
| ThistleWeb | toadstool? | Aug 30 17:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | mushroom | Aug 30 17:56 |
| ThistleWeb | mushrooms at least have a purpose | Aug 30 17:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, they get you stoned | Aug 30 17:57 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm sure he'll have some suggestions himself when he comes back......again | Aug 30 17:59 |
| cubezzz | I haven't encountered too many people who actually wrote FOSS code _and_ use Microsoft | Aug 30 18:03 |
| ThistleWeb | it's like the windows user who runs without an anti-virus and hasn't been infected, I'm sure there are handful, dotted around the world but good luck in finding any | Aug 30 18:04 |
| cubezzz | windows user without internet, sure it's possible :) | Aug 30 18:05 |
| ThistleWeb | not to mention a hermit | Aug 30 18:09 |
| ThistleWeb | no removable media | Aug 30 18:09 |
| ThistleWeb | you cant log onto freenode with the same nick on 2 clients at once can you? | Aug 30 18:10 |
| cubezzz | I don't think so | Aug 30 18:11 |
| ThistleWeb | thought so, k, I'll bbl, I;m gonna see if I can set up irssi | Aug 30 18:11 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @brunomiguel: melhor blogger do mundo procura novo emprego http://ur1.ca/arq5 [RT, pff] | Aug 30 19:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Um emprego em que se esteja bem com bom ambiente | Aug 30 19:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] jabber.org (the IM service part) is down !jabber !xmpp #xmpp #jabber | Aug 30 19:17 | |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-188-55.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:27 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Agora ando me armar em freelancer, mas nunca ganho bids nenhumas, é lixado ganhar reputação nesta area... mas com o tempo creio que vou lá | Aug 30 19:27 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@*.hsd1.in.comcast.net | Aug 30 19:28 | |
| MinceR | :( | Aug 30 19:30 |
| schestowitz | I didn't mean for you to ban him at all | Aug 30 19:30 |
| schestowitz | I was just going to the gym] | Aug 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | and trmanco was apparently away somewhere | Aug 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | The rules do say that the pro-Microsoft cr*pfloods are against the policy | Aug 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | Otherwise there's high tolerance for trolling | Aug 30 19:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: none of us want him here | Aug 30 19:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | just leave the damned ban there | Aug 30 19:33 |
| MinceR | indeed. | Aug 30 19:33 |
| ThistleWeb | hight tollerance for trolling? some in here jump to the accusation after a few sentences | Aug 30 19:34 |
| schestowitz | I can't, Diablo-D3 | Aug 30 19:34 |
| ThistleWeb | high* | Aug 30 19:34 |
| schestowitz | He's a little pitiful sometimes. | Aug 30 19:34 |
| MinceR | he can be pitiful elsewhere. | Aug 30 19:34 |
| ThistleWeb | indeed | Aug 30 19:35 |
| MinceR | "Go be invulnerable in Jersey. *PUNT*" | Aug 30 19:35 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: daemon (Ryan) has been here for half a year | Aug 30 19:35 |
| schestowitz | He has history | Aug 30 19:35 |
| schestowitz | [and probation officer] | Aug 30 19:35 |
| MinceR | that's exactly 6 months more than necessary. | Aug 30 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Before the bans he stormed this channel with anti-Linux | Aug 30 19:35 |
| ThistleWeb | the reasoning of "it's been that way for a while so it should remain" worked well for the monarchy when the peeps wanted to ellect their leaders | Aug 30 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Let's see what's on in Groklords | Aug 30 19:36 |
| ThistleWeb | it also worked well for the slave traders | Aug 30 19:36 |
| ThistleWeb | ^^ sarcasm btw | Aug 30 19:36 |
| MinceR | also, there were billions of years when he wasn't here | Aug 30 19:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://blogs.sun.com/CoreJavaTechTips/entry/superduper_slow_jar | Aug 30 19:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow. | Aug 30 19:37 |
| MinceR | if we're going for tradition, i think that wins | Aug 30 19:37 |
| ThistleWeb | look forward, not back | Aug 30 19:37 |
| MinceR | SunBlood1000? :> | Aug 30 19:37 |
| ThistleWeb | unless his probation officer is also a regular in here, and this channel is his monitoring | Aug 30 19:39 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-37-90.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:44 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: sounds like a metal band | Aug 30 19:44 |
| MinceR | :) | Aug 30 19:44 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:45 | |
| schestowitz | Supernova=Sunfart | Aug 30 19:45 |
| MinceR | nah | Aug 30 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Hey, wallclimber | Aug 30 19:45 |
| MinceR | farts don't make the farter explode | Aug 30 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Long time no see | Aug 30 19:45 |
| wallclimber | Hey! we've been working on the hit lists | Aug 30 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Join the call for a strong climate treaty! http://www.avaaz.org/en/tcktcktck/ | Aug 30 19:46 |
| wallclimber | I have a question | Aug 30 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | Aug 30 19:46 |
| wallclimber | okay, i don't know how to phrase the question, so never mind | Aug 30 19:46 |
| wallclimber | I'm going to send you the lists in a few minutes...I'm still putting together the other text pages (we're proofing them now) | Aug 30 19:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "The CIA report into prisoner abuse reveals a new, ugly reality: America's torturers weren't simply following orders" http://ping.fm/mFhcE | Aug 30 19:47 | |
| wallclimber | But the lists will probably take some time for you to set up for a web page, so I thought you'd like to have them asap | Aug 30 19:48 |
| wallclimber | ...yes? | Aug 30 19:48 |
| wallclimber | MinceR: " farts don't make the farter explode" (I am sorry I missed the rest of that conversation...lol) | Aug 30 19:49 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: no urgency | Aug 30 19:49 |
| MinceR | 205339 <@schestowitz> Supernova=Sunfart | Aug 30 19:49 |
| MinceR | that was the rest of it :) | Aug 30 19:49 |
| schestowitz | I'm dwarfed by Microsoft news | Aug 30 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Lots od nasty things they do at present | Aug 30 19:49 |
| wallclimber | Okay, then we'll start putting it together... | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: MinceR> SunBlood1000? :> | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | <ThistleWeb> unless his probation officer is also a regular in here, and this channel is his monitoring | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | * amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-37-90.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> MinceR: sounds like a metal band | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | <MinceR> :) | Aug 30 19:50 |
| wallclimber | Look for it later tonight or tomorrow morning | Aug 30 19:50 |
| wallclimber | in email | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Thanks! | Aug 30 19:50 |
| schestowitz | It shows targeting of journalists by Microsoft | Aug 30 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Cause some people accused BN of putting up lists of writers | Aug 30 19:51 |
| schestowitz | We got flak for it from people who are poorly ranked in it | Aug 30 19:51 |
| heh. M$'s shit lists are much worse. | Aug 30 19:51 | |
| schestowitz | Like this: http://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/2008/06/12/boycott-novells-free-software-credibility-list-and-me/ | Aug 30 19:51 |
| wallclimber | On figuring out the lists of names...they were VERY hard to read...we made the best guesses we could and then started searching online to match the name to the publications. We found the correct spelling of MOST of them, we hope | Aug 30 19:52 |
| M$'s lists are all about "for us or against us" your list is simply one of honesty | Aug 30 19:52 | |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: no need to hurry with comes | Aug 30 19:52 |
| we know from previous Comes email that M$ has favorites they give "insider" information | Aug 30 19:53 | |
| schestowitz | when cday helped me out I was in a hurry for other reasons. That's no longer the case. | Aug 30 19:53 |
| and we know from Randal Kennedy that people who criticize M$ are punished. | Aug 30 19:53 | |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.47.11.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:53 | |
| Omar87 | Hi all | Aug 30 19:53 |
| schestowitz | twitter: yes, they did | Aug 30 19:53 |
| schestowitz | They still do this | Aug 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Like Dina Bass | Aug 30 19:54 |
| *tacone (n=rooms@93-33-33-245.ip42.fastwebnet.it) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:54 | |
| schestowitz | THey check the background of people whom they talk to | Aug 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Mary Jo Foley explained to me that they sort of rank, punish and reward | Aug 30 19:54 |
| wallclimber | Well, even though there's no hurry, it would be good to get them finished so you can post them at your leisure | Aug 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | As in, glorify VIsta 7 and we'll give you an interview with Ballmer laster this year | Aug 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | That's just how they work | Aug 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Say something bad about Microsoft's racketeering against Linux and we will stop responding to you mail | Aug 30 19:55 |
| wallclimber | Many of the names on the hit lists have moved on to other publications now...one name we think uses a second pen name (I'll point it out when I send it to you) | Aug 30 19:55 |
| schestowitz | maybe Randal Kennedy is sucking up now for dollars | Aug 30 19:55 |
| then there's the "normal" practice of "embargos" and who gets WE press releases that techcrunch complained about last year | Aug 30 19:55 | |
| schestowitz | Wait until he collects something | Aug 30 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Maybe a job at MSFT even | Aug 30 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Like Pete Galli | Aug 30 19:56 |
| schestowitz | Or Peter O'Kelly | Aug 30 19:56 |
| schestowitz | Or Ashley Highfield | Aug 30 19:56 |
| wallclimber | Anyway, just wanted to check in and give you an update | Aug 30 19:56 |
| schestowitz | twitter: link? About TechCrunch? | Aug 30 19:56 |
| schestowitz | I had OIN promise me an 'exclusive' | Aug 30 19:56 |
| schestowitz | That's how they work | Aug 30 19:57 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: thanks, that's excelent | Aug 30 19:57 |
| let me dig it up | Aug 30 19:57 | |
| schestowitz | Last week we peaked at 8,000 unique visitors/day | Aug 30 19:57 |
| *tacone has quit (Client Quit) | Aug 30 19:58 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Aug 30 19:58 | |
| schestowitz | Whiner: http://www.cyberslapp.org/cases/page.cfm?PageID=92 | Aug 30 19:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] INTERNET - PROCEED CAUTIOUSLY http://imgur.com/2UQd.jpg | Aug 30 19:58 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.cyberslapp.org/about/ | Aug 30 19:58 |
| schestowitz | "This web site is sponsored by a coalition of civil liberties and privacy groups (listed below) who have come together to protect the right to speak freely and anonymously on the internet. That right is endangered by a new form of lawsuit, called a "CyberSLAPP" suit, which threatens to overturn the promise of anonymous online speech and chill the freedom of expression that is central to the online world." | Aug 30 19:58 |
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| *Xarver (n=kenneth@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 19:59 | |
| http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219917 | Aug 30 19:59 | |
| Xarver | hi if you released a program under the LGPL and gave your source code could people modify it and sell it? | Aug 30 19:59 |
| Xarver | wondering, because if so, that's not really right... | Aug 30 20:00 |
| Xarver | because then they could steal your idea and make money off of it with your source | Aug 30 20:00 |
| ThistleWeb | Xarver: it wouldnt affect your ability to use the code the way you want, and changes they make they'd have to give back | Aug 30 20:02 |
| It is important for people to have anonymous speech on the internet. | Aug 30 20:02 | |
| ThistleWeb | so they'd be selling something their customers can get from you for free | Aug 30 20:02 |
| Xarver | yes but what if they sold the binary | Aug 30 20:02 |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-148-243.lns11.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 20:02 | |
| ThistleWeb | they'd have to provide the source too | Aug 30 20:02 |
| ThistleWeb | along with the LGPL rights they got | Aug 30 20:03 |
| Xarver | but they would still make money off of our product | Aug 30 20:03 |
| Xarver | your* | Aug 30 20:03 |
| ThistleWeb | there's nothing to stop them | Aug 30 20:03 |
| ThistleWeb | same with glp software | Aug 30 20:03 |
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| ThistleWeb | gpl* | Aug 30 20:03 |
| Xarver | Why is it like that? That means some big company could take your product, sell it, and make more money. | Aug 30 20:04 |
| You also have the Gartner emails where Gartner promised not to bash Vista if it was late. In that batch of email there were lots of reporter rankings, with reward and punishment. | Aug 30 20:04 | |
| just use the GPL Xarver, then there are no problems. | Aug 30 20:04 | |
| Xarver | but what if you want to sell your product :| | Aug 30 20:04 |
| Xarver | for money | Aug 30 20:05 |
| ThistleWeb | if you have a company selling something, while the creators are offering it free, they have a tough sell | Aug 30 20:05 |
| Xarver | but if you are both selling ot | Aug 30 20:05 |
| Xarver | it* | Aug 30 20:05 |
| ThistleWeb | they can't get any advantage in features etc as they have to give everything they change back | Aug 30 20:05 |
| Xarver | ? | Aug 30 20:05 |
| Xarver | ah I see\ | Aug 30 20:06 |
| ThistleWeb | whats to stop peeps compiling the source from you? | Aug 30 20:06 |
| ThistleWeb | instead of downloading your binary | Aug 30 20:06 |
| Xarver | what if someone compiles my source and sells it for 5 when I am selling it 100 | Aug 30 20:06 |
| ThistleWeb | most FOSS paid projects dont sell the software, they sell the support | Aug 30 20:07 |
| ThistleWeb | they, as the creators, get more goodwill than cloners who fork your work and try to make money from it | Aug 30 20:07 |
| Xarver | true, but that wouldn't make as much as money would it? Unless you had a large userbase. | Aug 30 20:07 |
| ThistleWeb | FOSS isn't about making lots of money | Aug 30 20:08 |
| Xarver | what if you wanted to | Aug 30 20:08 |
| ThistleWeb | if your coding for those aims, you'd need to go closed, and fight all the battles the closed devs do now, with how to protect your app from unauthorised installs etc | Aug 30 20:08 |
| Xarver | ah | Aug 30 20:09 |
| ThistleWeb | then if you go closed, you lose all the benefits of others using and improving it | Aug 30 20:09 |
| ThistleWeb | you have to do all that yourself | Aug 30 20:09 |
| Xarver | I see | Aug 30 20:09 |
| ThistleWeb | if it's a novel idea which can be implemented in FOSS, someone will, and their pace of improvements will soon outstrip yours, leaving your customers going to them anyway | Aug 30 20:10 |
| the biggest thing you lose is the toolchain | Aug 30 20:10 | |
| schestowitz | Ex-Wives and Others Eagerly Await the UBS Tax-Cheater List < http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090823/us_time/08599191782900 > | Aug 30 20:10 |
| ThistleWeb | you can either embrace FOSS as a model, or fight against it | Aug 30 20:10 |
| it's much easier to put gpl'd pieces together than it is to start from scratch or buy junk | Aug 30 20:10 | |
| Xarver | so, for example, you have a distro, and you sell it for 44 dollars ( 2 year support ) with a help center. Do you have to make the free one have a help center? | Aug 30 20:10 |
| It depends on what kind of company you are | Aug 30 20:11 | |
| Xarver | open | Aug 30 20:11 |
| ThistleWeb | no, you dont sell it at all | Aug 30 20:11 |
| ThistleWeb | you sell a support contract | Aug 30 20:11 |
| if you are just trying to get work done, you go with free software and get the job done | Aug 30 20:11 | |
| ThistleWeb | give away the distro | Aug 30 20:11 |
| you don't have to sell it because the value was in the job | Aug 30 20:11 | |
| ThistleWeb | offer an optional support contract for a fee | Aug 30 20:11 |
| Xarver | but chances are only a small amount will need support | Aug 30 20:11 |
| ThistleWeb | it's your help and knowledge that's valuable | Aug 30 20:11 |
| if you are some kind of software huckster like M$, you are stuck with M$ problems. | Aug 30 20:11 | |
| if you are a support company, then what you do depends on what your clients want. | Aug 30 20:12 | |
| ThistleWeb | FOSS isn't a route to mega-bucks, no matter how you cuit it | Aug 30 20:12 |
| they might not want to distribute their code | Aug 30 20:12 | |
| ThistleWeb | it can provide a healthy living though | Aug 30 20:12 |
| IBM is making billions for support | Aug 30 20:12 | |
| Xarver | how could you get people to get support from you instead of say, an IRC channel? | Aug 30 20:12 |
| ThistleWeb | it's also a lot more honest with the end users | Aug 30 20:12 |
| you provide excellent support and build a reputation for getting the job done | Aug 30 20:13 | |
| ThistleWeb | paid support is from trusted pros round the clock | Aug 30 20:13 |
| that's how you make money in any honest field | Aug 30 20:13 | |
| Xarver | How about if you made a distro on a cd, sold the cd 44 dollars (with support). You also offer it free online. So people only pay for the cd | Aug 30 20:14 |
| ThistleWeb | some users, specially companies want to know they can call a number 24/7 and have someone answer and knowledgable to fix it | Aug 30 20:14 |
| I don't know Xarver, go for it. | Aug 30 20:14 | |
| good luck | Aug 30 20:14 | |
| Xarver | It's just me pondering. | Aug 30 20:14 |
| *Xarver is 11 | Aug 30 20:14 | |
| wallclimber | Xarver, as a small business person, myself, I'd much rather have someone I can get help from, personally, rather than having to take time to outline a problem on an IRC channel | Aug 30 20:14 |
| Xarver | >.> | Aug 30 20:14 |
| 11 what? | Aug 30 20:14 | |
| Xarver | years old | Aug 30 20:14 |
| cool | Aug 30 20:15 | |
| Xarver | :3 | Aug 30 20:15 |
| ThistleWeb | look at the support deals offered by redhat, novell etc | Aug 30 20:15 |
| ThistleWeb | even canonical | Aug 30 20:15 |
| Xarver | novell D:< | Aug 30 20:15 |
| Xarver | -P | Aug 30 20:15 |
| Xarver | :P | Aug 30 20:15 |
| bbl | Aug 30 20:15 | |
| ThistleWeb | they have different rates depending on the evel of support | Aug 30 20:15 |
| ThistleWeb | 9-5 is cheaper than 24/7 | Aug 30 20:16 |
| ThistleWeb | some have a certain number of tickets free, then a price per ticket after that | Aug 30 20:16 |
| Xarver | I see | Aug 30 20:16 |
| ThistleWeb | who's better placed to know the product than the peeps who created it? | Aug 30 20:16 |
| ThistleWeb | you always have that advantage over anyone else offering support | Aug 30 20:17 |
| Xarver | ^.^ | Aug 30 20:17 |
| ThistleWeb | if the product grows enough you can set up authorised support with differet peeps | Aug 30 20:17 |
| ThistleWeb | look at asterix pbx for example | Aug 30 20:18 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Aug 30 20:18 | |
| ThistleWeb | they have official support options in a few countries now, done by partnering with local firms | Aug 30 20:18 |
| Xarver | never heard of it :P | Aug 30 20:18 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a FOSS pbx phone system | Aug 30 20:19 |
| Xarver | oh | Aug 30 20:19 |
| ThistleWeb | redhat offer certificates and training so peeps can be up to their standards of support | Aug 30 20:19 |
| Xarver | :) | Aug 30 20:20 |
| ThistleWeb | there are ways to do it | Aug 30 20:20 |
| *Xarver wants to make Linux distro >.> | Aug 30 20:20 | |
| *Xarver can't do much until he's an adult S; | Aug 30 20:21 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php?page=3 | Aug 30 20:22 |
| schestowitz | "I've used TechSmith products at work, particularly SnagIt, back when I used to need to do screen captures for work in my Windows days, and I found their software absolutely wonderful. It's nice you can get Camtasia for the Mac now, but please, please, please wonderful TechSmith guys, could there be a Linux version of SnagIt someday?" | Aug 30 20:22 |
| ThistleWeb | you can learn | Aug 30 20:23 |
| ThistleWeb | you have the net | Aug 30 20:23 |
| Xarver | yeah | Aug 30 20:23 |
| Xarver | I know python and started learning C yesterday or so | Aug 30 20:23 |
| ThistleWeb | gaining knowledge and skills is never a bad things | Aug 30 20:23 |
| ThistleWeb | thing* | Aug 30 20:23 |
| Xarver | schestowitz: I want a Camtasia for Linux :P | Aug 30 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Did you ask them? | Aug 30 20:24 |
| Xarver | recordmydesktop is the only one that works well and isn't that fully featured | Aug 30 20:24 |
| Xarver | and no | Aug 30 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Tell them Linux grew to have high market share | Aug 30 20:24 |
| Xarver | :P | Aug 30 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer says more than Mac OS X | Aug 30 20:24 |
| Xarver | really? | Aug 30 20:25 |
| schestowitz | Xarver: http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ballmer_Linux_Bigger_Competitor_than_Apple | Aug 30 20:25 |
| Xarver | WOW | Aug 30 20:25 |
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| Xarver | pwnt | Aug 30 20:25 |
| schestowitz | "DeLuca runs bodybuilding.com, a fitness website and online retailer. The plaintiffs sell dietary supplements ("syntrax," whatever that is). The plaintiffs allege that their competitors posted shill reviews to bodybuilding.com designed to harm the plaintiffs' business. The plaintiffs sued both bodybuilding.com and the putative shillers. This ruling deals only with bodybuilding.com's liability" | Aug 30 20:25 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2009/08/online_retailer_1.htm | Aug 30 20:26 |
| Xarver | another way of making money would be to sell laptops ThistleWeb ? | Aug 30 20:26 |
| ThistleWeb | if you treat the FOSS / Linux community right, they will treat you right, compare Redhat with Novell for the right and wrong way to do things | Aug 30 20:26 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah you could do | Aug 30 20:26 |
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| ThistleWeb | I like gtkrecordmydesktop for screencasts | Aug 30 20:29 |
| ThistleWeb | it's quite simple but it has all the options I need | Aug 30 20:29 |
| Xarver | :\ | Aug 30 20:31 |
| Xarver | And I requested it schestowitz :P | Aug 30 20:31 |
| Xarver | ThistleWeb: It's OK, but it should have more features like zooming in to places. And compiz does that but is a bit slow on my computer. | Aug 30 20:32 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah it doesn't do that yet lol | Aug 30 20:35 |
| ThistleWeb | there was another one | Aug 30 20:35 |
| ThistleWeb | istanbul | Aug 30 20:35 |
| ThistleWeb | I think that's also gtk | Aug 30 20:35 |
| ThistleWeb | not sure what features it has | Aug 30 20:36 |
| Xarver | ThistleWeb: I have tried that | Aug 30 20:36 |
| Xarver | it's like the same thing as recordmydesktop but stripped down | Aug 30 20:36 |
| ThistleWeb | k | Aug 30 20:36 |
| Xarver | even LESS features >.> | Aug 30 20:37 |
| Xarver | And xvidcap only does xwd for some reason | Aug 30 20:37 |
| popey | Xarver: have you tried ffmpeg with hufyuv and use compiz to zoom? | Aug 30 20:37 |
| Xarver | popey: " And compiz does that but is a bit slow on my computer." | Aug 30 20:37 |
| popey | sorry, missed that | Aug 30 20:37 |
| Xarver | It's ok ;) | Aug 30 20:37 |
| popey | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc/2009-June/013251.html anyway | Aug 30 20:37 |
| Xarver | Is there some way to only enable one feature of compiz not all :| | Aug 30 20:37 |
| popey | take a look at that | Aug 30 20:37 |
| ThistleWeb | I still reckon hufyuv sounds like a Welsh swear word | Aug 30 20:38 |
| popey | no extra features, but it's a nice way to record high quality video | Aug 30 20:38 |
| popey | i use recordmydesktop for the videos at http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/ | Aug 30 20:38 |
| Xarver | it's so weird when you're almost the only one in your channel | Aug 30 20:38 |
| popey | with compiz off | Aug 30 20:38 |
| Xarver | I prefer mandriva | Aug 30 20:38 |
| Xarver | with gnome now | Aug 30 20:38 |
| ThistleWeb | popey: I noticed the screencast post you did with your settings | Aug 30 20:39 |
| popey | seems to work well enough | Aug 30 20:40 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a balancing act | Aug 30 20:41 |
| ThistleWeb | finding a decent screen size which is readable without being too big | Aug 30 20:41 |
| ThistleWeb | I like the way screencasters do it | Aug 30 20:41 |
| trmanco | http://www.reddit.com/tb/9fm0n | Aug 30 20:42 |
| trmanco | http://archlinux.org/ | Aug 30 20:44 |
| schestowitz | EMC Corp. co-founder Richard Egan dead at 73 < http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1193982&srvc=home&position=active > | Aug 30 20:45 |
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| schestowitz | Clients Flee Cerberus, Fallen Fund Titan http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125148681701267563.html | Aug 30 20:51 |
| *Balrog is now known as Guest45182 | Aug 30 20:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Dutch Royal Family Wins Favorable Ruling On Privacy Against Associated Press" http://ping.fm/b943H AP has been nasty recently | Aug 30 20:54 | |
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| _Hicham_ | hi don schestowitz ! | Aug 30 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Hey, what's up, sir? | Aug 30 21:01 |
| _Hicham_ | did u see the launchpad# project ? | Aug 30 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Is it AGPLv3 yet? | Aug 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | For Internet Addicts, a Place to Get Help < http://www.mediabistro.com/webnewser/connected/for_internet_addicts_a_place_to_get_help_129681.asp > | Aug 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Dell conquers Europe with its Ubuntu netbooks, enters the Netherlands http://vinnl.newsvine.com/_news/2009/08/21/3177292-dell-conquers-europe-with-its-ubuntu-netbooks-enters-the-netherlands | Aug 30 21:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is bored! | Aug 30 21:07 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : creating launchpad# proves that canonical supports mono | Aug 30 21:08 |
| trmanco | I'm famous | Aug 30 21:09 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : yes you are | Aug 30 21:10 |
| trmanco | really | Aug 30 21:10 |
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| _Hicham_ | you are known all over the internet | Aug 30 21:10 |
| trmanco | http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/08/gwibber-2-20.html | Aug 30 21:10 |
| trmanco | se that | Aug 30 21:10 |
| trmanco | see* | Aug 30 21:10 |
| trmanco | take a close look at the first pic | Aug 30 21:10 |
| trmanco | I've seen this post a couple of times, but I only noticed it now :| | Aug 30 21:12 |
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| trmanco | I wonder where I can get a bar like the one on that website | Aug 30 21:13 |
| _Hicham_ | very famous Tony | Aug 30 21:14 |
| *trmanco sniffs the source code | Aug 30 21:14 | |
| *trmanco achim :| | Aug 30 21:14 | |
| sebsebseb | What a great video and the winner is... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymbB8RT6Aas | Aug 30 21:16 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: mono?? | Aug 30 21:17 |
| trmanco | http://www.wibiya.com/ | Aug 30 21:18 |
| trmanco | found it | Aug 30 21:18 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : launchpad# are C# bindings for launchpad | Aug 30 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Oh! | Aug 30 21:18 |
| schestowitz | the # | Aug 30 21:19 |
| schestowitz | OK | Aug 30 21:19 |
| schestowitz | just mailed this: | Aug 30 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "I apologise if my link to your blog was misunderstood. My point was that you, like Asay, focused on gpl2, in a way which hypothetically resembles a headline which says Firefox (version 2.0.x) is falling. I hope you have seen the SFLC's good rebuttal to Black Duck's #s." | Aug 30 21:19 |
| tacone | Gh. Mono bindings to launchpad :-o | Aug 30 21:20 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: omgubuntu! | Aug 30 21:21 |
| schestowitz | new site btw | Aug 30 21:21 |
| schestowitz | tacone: it's like putting fins on a bird | Aug 30 21:21 |
| tacone | Gh | Aug 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Or adding a Microsoft rep to a FOSS event | Aug 30 21:22 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: have a look at the link I gave :) | Aug 30 21:22 |
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| schestowitz | sebsebseb: I added it to my set of daily links a moment ago | Aug 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Thanks | Aug 30 21:22 |
| sebsebseb | set of daily links? | Aug 30 21:22 |
| tacone | Waiting for a launchpad XLS export feature :-) | Aug 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is heavy | Aug 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz | See Firefox starting | Aug 30 21:23 |
| trmanco | ## | Aug 30 21:23 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: your article about MS being worried about Linux in 97, got onto linuxtoday the other day, not read it yet | Aug 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: yes, tonight | Aug 30 21:23 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: tonight?? | Aug 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: not Linux | Aug 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz | LUNIX | Aug 30 21:23 |
| schestowitz | L-UNIX | Aug 30 21:23 |
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| schestowitz | Loonix | Aug 30 21:24 |
| MinceR | i know a guy who uses the nick "Loonix" :) | Aug 30 21:24 |
| twitter1 | twitter reads of real horror http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Terror | Aug 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: this video is now new btw | Aug 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | I have a better one coming | Aug 30 21:24 |
| twitter1 | I wonder if this is how people in Iraq live now | Aug 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | There's lots of red | Aug 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Bloodshed | Aug 30 21:24 |
| twitter1 | hostage taking | Aug 30 21:24 |
| twitter1 | executions | Aug 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Klein calls it shock doctrine | Aug 30 21:25 |
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| twitter1 | elimination of free pres | Aug 30 21:25 |
| twitter1 | s | Aug 30 21:25 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah it might look nice Windows 7 RC on boot up, but it's still slow | Aug 30 21:25 |
| *sebsebseb loves the bootup speed of Ext4 | Aug 30 21:25 | |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu will get faster | Aug 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Fedora is fast | Aug 30 21:25 |
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| sebsebseb | it already is fast | Aug 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | f12 | Aug 30 21:25 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh you done the beta? | Aug 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | And Vista 7 will stay for several years | Aug 30 21:25 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 11 is the best OS yet | Aug 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | While Linux runs ahead every 4 months | Aug 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: nope | Aug 30 21:26 |
| _Hicham_ | I am glad that F12 will be mono free | Aug 30 21:26 |
| twitter1 | What makes you think M$ will last several years? | Aug 30 21:26 |
| trmanco | _Hicham_, are you sure? | Aug 30 21:26 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : you | Aug 30 21:26 |
| twitter1 | Vista has slain them. | Aug 30 21:26 |
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| _Hicham_ | trmanco : sure about what ? | Aug 30 21:26 |
| trmanco | [21:35] <_Hicham_> I am glad that F12 will be mono free | Aug 30 21:27 |
| twitter1 | Vista 7 will just be gross. | Aug 30 21:27 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : the default install and livecd, yes | Aug 30 21:27 |
| twitter1 | bad sales, retail and OEM collapse | Aug 30 21:27 |
| twitter1 | the end of M$ will put a stop to mono if the demise of Novell does not | Aug 30 21:27 |
| trmanco | ah... ok, but I wouldn't be putting fireworks just yet, as it still hasn't been released | Aug 30 21:28 |
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| sebsebseb | twitter1: ,but yet schools are giving netbooks with it to students/pupils http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_management/2009082800235NWDPSW | Aug 30 21:29 |
| twitter1 | they are just burning money | Aug 30 21:30 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: it has to OEM's or something | Aug 30 21:30 |
| trmanco | not me :-P | Aug 30 21:30 |
| trmanco | bribery? | Aug 30 21:32 |
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| twitter1 | Wikipedia ACPI article is thoroughly scrubbed of criticism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acpi | Aug 30 21:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] /me is still bored!!!1!1!1!1!1!1!11!1!!!!!11111111 | Aug 30 21:35 | |
| schestowitz | Why does http://d0od.blogspot.com/2009/08/gwibber-2-20.html promote Moon Lie? | Aug 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz | See banner | Aug 30 21:39 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: yes, they burn money | Aug 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz | And the NSW story seems somewhat corrupt | Aug 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about it at the time | Aug 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is not compatible with software | Aug 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz | That's gonna sting a lot of people | Aug 30 21:40 |
| schestowitz | One guy from the IRC had people return a PC case Vista 7 won't run the software | Aug 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Drivers too are an issue | Aug 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 Vista+ | Aug 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Still old issues unresolved | Aug 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Newer wallpaper, ripoff of KDE4 features | Aug 30 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Too little, too late, too heavy, too slow | Aug 30 21:42 |
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| twitter1 | I took a little trip to an Office Depot and had a look at the computers there. The cheapest was a $300 HP netbook. Everything was running XP or Vista and it was mostly broken. | Aug 30 21:47 |
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| twitter1 | The $300 netbook was on a black screen, I can't find my boot drive message. | Aug 30 21:48 |
| twitter1 | The more expensive netbook had some kind of network error messages. | Aug 30 21:48 |
| twitter1 | Store had about three shoppers in it. | Aug 30 21:48 |
| twitter1 | Dead zone. | Aug 30 21:49 |
| twitter1 | Target has removed their netbook display. EEE PC is gone from their floor and that was all they had left for computers. | Aug 30 21:51 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] In-built Linux Multi-touch (New Video) http://ping.fm/La7Km | Aug 30 21:53 | |
| twitter1 | ACPI article editor uses IE 7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jimmi_Hugh | Aug 30 21:55 |
| twitter1 | nice | Aug 30 21:55 |
| twitter1 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ClueBot | Aug 30 21:56 |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux is already ahead of Vista 7 | Aug 30 21:56 |
| twitter1 | of course | Aug 30 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Too bad it doesn't have a 1bn marketing budget | Aug 30 21:56 |
| trmanco | he can divide by zero | Aug 30 21:57 |
| twitter1 | why would anyone want to waste a billion dollars on that? | Aug 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz | And no ability to threaten shops that 'dare' to put a Vista machine on display | Aug 30 21:57 |
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| twitter1 | Wouldn't it be better to spend a billion dollars on something useful? | Aug 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz | To show people that there is *GASP* choice for something OTHER than LINUX | Aug 30 21:57 |
| MinceR | twitter1: to keep others from wasting a lot more on vista7 | Aug 30 21:57 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.146.54.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 21:57 | |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 is good... | Aug 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz | For the 'economy' | Aug 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Make more new PCs | Aug 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz | By, buy, but... | Aug 30 21:58 |
| twitter1 | waste is bad for everyone | Aug 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | consumption is GUT | Aug 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | twitter: doesn't matter! | Aug 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Markets don't have any account of environment | Aug 30 21:58 |
| twitter1 | another editor of ACPI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Favonian | Aug 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Quarter goals are driven by...... PROFIT! :-) | Aug 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Burn, burn, burn | Aug 30 21:58 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 30 21:58 | |
| schestowitz | Until the neifhbours come with torches | Aug 30 21:58 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, wallclimber | Aug 30 21:59 |
| ThistleWeb | wb wallclimber | Aug 30 21:59 |
| wallclimber | Hi Roy, the hit list is in the mail | Aug 30 21:59 |
| twitter1 | says he's not a communist or a porn star, also interested in reverting vandalism.. | Aug 30 21:59 |
| schestowitz | See what Microsoft has to cope with (poor Ballmer): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/30/linux-multi-touch-demo/ | Aug 30 21:59 |
| wallclimber | Hi Thistleweb! | Aug 30 21:59 |
| schestowitz | twitter: weird editors there in Wikipedia | Aug 30 22:00 |
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| wallclimber | We've had power outages and brownouts here, in the afternoons, all week long - so I just wanted to let you know to check your email (and say hi to everyone) and now I'm shutting down for the day...Take care everyone! | Aug 30 22:01 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hurry Up, Vista 7, Hurry Up... You're SO Behind GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/QbEyV | Aug 30 22:05 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Income Falls While GNU/Linux Income Grows http://ping.fm/aFDHb | Aug 30 22:06 | |
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| twitter1 | you have to go back to 2008 to find criticism of ACPI in an ACPI article http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface&diff=222744706&oldid=222289513 | Aug 30 22:07 |
| twitter1 | as noted in 2001, it did take years to get ACPI straight and it's still dangerous. http://lwn.net/2001/0704/kernel.php3 | Aug 30 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, well.. someone ought to edit it | Aug 30 22:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dell Spreads GNU/Linux Desktops in Europe http://ping.fm/XzCX5 | Aug 30 22:13 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] National Health Information Network Shows Off Some Free Software http://ping.fm/9BDcm | Aug 30 22:14 | |
| twitter1 | part of the criticism was removed by the now defunct account http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:FreeRangeFrog | Aug 30 22:15 |
| schestowitz | Frog?? | Aug 30 22:16 |
| schestowitz | Defunct? | Aug 30 22:16 |
| schestowitz | There was a person with a name to do with frog deleting the BillG memo | Aug 30 22:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] EuroBSDCon 2009 is Coming (UKUUG) http://ping.fm/4C4Xg (via @glynmoody ) | Aug 30 22:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft's Bing decides on bribery: http://is.gd/2I9qF | Aug 30 22:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] International GNU Cooperative Sweden http://ping.fm/jQRgq | Aug 30 22:20 | |
| twitter1 | yes, it was either free range frog or muslim hybrid that removed the gates memo http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface&diff=next&oldid=241905560 | Aug 30 22:21 |
| twitter1 | looks like muslim hybrid | Aug 30 22:21 |
| twitter1 | the frog claims he's "gone" | Aug 30 22:21 |
| MinceR | it's the free encyclopedia that not anyone can edit! | Aug 30 22:22 |
| *schestowitz listens to CDs from 12 years ago | Aug 30 22:23 | |
| twitter1 | it's an encyclopedia that's been astroturfed intensely | Aug 30 22:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wall Street-listed Companies Turn to Free Software http://ping.fm/iyqCb | Aug 30 22:23 | |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: basically people can have virtual XP in Windows 7 | Aug 30 22:24 |
| *MinceR is listening to: TeeCee & Moss - Five-Ever | Aug 30 22:24 | |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: for apps | Aug 30 22:24 |
| MinceR | i'm listening to modules from an old collection :) | Aug 30 22:24 |
| *trmanco is listening to nothing | Aug 30 22:24 | |
| twitter1 | listening to the world around me | Aug 30 22:24 |
| twitter1 | people coming and going, working and playing | Aug 30 22:24 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: it takes RAM | Aug 30 22:24 |
| schestowitz | And it's poorly integrated | Aug 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | I can also virtualise DSL here on Mandriva | Aug 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Why? Because I can | Aug 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Will I? No. | Aug 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Cause it's dumb | Aug 30 22:25 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh you use Mandriva? | Aug 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | YEs | Aug 30 22:25 |
| sebsebseb | how come | Aug 30 22:25 |
| sebsebseb | ? | Aug 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Strange questiobn | Aug 30 22:25 |
| trmanco | twitter1, put that piece of text back in there | Aug 30 22:25 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well loads of distros to choose from, so why Mandriva? and I didn't say Mandriva is a bad distro | Aug 30 22:26 |
| twitter1 | I don't have a wikipedia account, nor do I really want to waste time with the WE douchebags who will revert things. | Aug 30 22:26 |
| sebsebseb | anyway yes, virtual maching another Linux distro inside a distro can be a bit silly depends, same for a version of Windows inside another one | Aug 30 22:26 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: that's the poinbt | Aug 30 22:26 |
| twitter1 | I'd rather point out the crime and shame the criminals | Aug 30 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Mant distros | Aug 30 22:26 |
| schestowitz | So I change all the time | Aug 30 22:26 |
| schestowitz | I used PCLOS in July | Aug 30 22:26 |
| sebsebseb | ah ok | Aug 30 22:27 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: but in Windows it's for different versions | Aug 30 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Like running Fedora 4 in Fedora 12 | Aug 30 22:27 |
| schestowitz | As a matter of "practicality" | Aug 30 22:27 |
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| trmanco | LOL | Aug 30 22:28 |
| trmanco | "I removed the Bill Gates paragraph. After going through the linked articles and the PDF copy of that email, it seems to me that it's irrelevant and quite impossible to level any sort of charge against Microsoft over that." | Aug 30 22:28 |
| twitter1 | I've collected all the ACPI stuff that matters. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/183403 | Aug 30 22:28 |
| trmanco | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface | Aug 30 22:29 |
| trmanco | better start an ACPIpedia | Aug 30 22:29 |
| trmanco | so there is a place for criticisms and soecs | Aug 30 22:30 |
| trmanco | specs* | Aug 30 22:30 |
| twitter1 | Austrailian Defense Force choses Ballnux | Aug 30 22:30 |
| twitter1 | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/08/30/214236/Australian-Defence-Force-Builds-17m-Linux-Based-Flight-Simulator | Aug 30 22:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Hoje fui meter gasoleo e estava a 1.069 € ao litro... não querem roubar mais um pouco, nao? | Aug 30 22:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open Access Defended by European Commission, Legal Experts http://ping.fm/wbUpm http://ping.fm/5apRB | Aug 30 22:34 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Governments Embrace Free Software for Support from Their People http://ping.fm/gcMFK http://ping.fm/gErNr | Aug 30 22:36 | |
| twitter1 | that talk page is trolled out by the same people. Free Range Frog especially. | Aug 30 22:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Australian Defence Force Chooses GNU/Linux (the Wrong Type) http://ping.fm/Nobbi | Aug 30 22:40 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] eBook Standards Promoted by Google http://ping.fm/7PQb6 | Aug 30 22:46 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Smart Card Standards Demoted by Microsoft http://ping.fm/3RCSg | Aug 30 22:46 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Crimes in FOSS Basher McAfee http://ping.fm/eyING | Aug 30 22:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Home Office Can't Secure Data http://ping.fm/hsEJg | Aug 30 22:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Call to Abolish Mandelson-Geffen Anti-Internet Law http://ping.fm/G0OyN http://ping.fm/BKCy4 http://ping.fm/f366e | Aug 30 22:50 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] China Finds Excuses to Run Nationwide Censorship http://ping.fm/EzOjU http://ping.fm/n5eEn | Aug 30 22:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Apps Grows Online Empire with Zoho Integration http://ping.fm/T2oRL | Aug 30 22:52 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intellectual Monopolies Now on Breast Cancer and Food http://ping.fm/JZBYQ http://ping.fm/2K0wq | Aug 30 22:55 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Intellectual Monopoly Mustn't Apply to Software, USPTO Wakes Up http://ping.fm/uY9V1 | Aug 30 22:58 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Something Too Fishy in EPO: Big Business Controls Policy http://ping.fm/BF5Al http://ping.fm/ERRHu | Aug 30 23:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patent System, as Always, Favours Monopolists (Different Rules Apply to Them) http://ping.fm/oXyzd | Aug 30 23:06 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Pro-Microsoft Blogger/Journalist Complains That "Ribbon" is Atrocious http://ping.fm/qTTy1 | Aug 30 23:09 | |
| *amarsh04__ is now known as amarsh04 | Aug 30 23:09 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Partner Complains That Microsoft Destroys Partners (FASA, Bungie Studios) http://ping.fm/MMeWG | Aug 30 23:10 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Chris Matyszczyk of CNET the Latest Among Many to Call B0ng "Bribery" http://ping.fm/cf9K8 | Aug 30 23:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Yahoo Looks Beyond the Pact of Bartzmer and Ballmer http://ping.fm/nRugE | Aug 30 23:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Plan to Force IE Users to Use Bong [sic] is Not Working Out http://ping.fm/dJgnw | Aug 30 23:19 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Antitrust Attorney Says Authorities About to Block Yahoosoft! http://ping.fm/jJ0J4 | Aug 30 23:20 | |
| twitter1 | It is not enough to block Yahoosoft. M$ should pay for the crime of destroying Yahoo. | Aug 30 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Where? | Aug 30 23:24 |
| schestowitz | In Indonesia? | Aug 30 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft owns the US | Aug 30 23:24 |
| schestowitz | For IT | Aug 30 23:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bell Seemingly Dumps Microsoft http://ping.fm/aNbEk | Aug 30 23:27 | |
| twitter1 | They conspired to destroy Yahoo's share price, install friendly board members and do other things to ruin Yahoo. | Aug 30 23:28 |
| twitter1 | They used the US government, corruptly, to block the Google Yahoo deal. | Aug 30 23:28 |
| twitter1 | They filled the press they own and influence with nonsense about Yahoo's impending demise. | Aug 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | YEah, well, Microsoft is a malicious attachment if you know what I mean | Aug 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | They still do | Aug 30 23:29 |
| twitter1 | It's straight forward stock manipulation and fraud. | Aug 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | They use some Hispanic groups too | Aug 30 23:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Admits Hotmail Shambles http://ping.fm/88Fhj | Aug 30 23:29 | |
| schestowitz | To fight regulators ATM | Aug 30 23:29 |
| twitter1 | these are crimes | Aug 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | Saying the deal is good | Aug 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | Using AstroTurfs | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Crimes where? | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Not by GWB standards :-p | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | The army does the same thing | Aug 30 23:30 |
| twitter1 | In the US, it's a form of insider trading. | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | "Weapons of mass destruction" | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Well, it's Microsoft | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Expect organised crime | Aug 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | See huistory | Aug 30 23:30 |
| twitter1 | I'd rather see justice. | Aug 30 23:31 |
| twitter1 | If we don't demand it, who will? | Aug 30 23:31 |
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| schestowitz | Justice where? | Aug 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Not in the Land of the Fee | Aug 30 23:31 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Uncle "Microsoft" Wants to Lure Brazilian Schools Away from GNU/Linux? http://ping.fm/kldsW | Aug 30 23:33 | |
| schestowitz | Those mobsters can't leave Brazil alone. Brazil committed the 'crime' of moving all schools to GNU/Linux. | Aug 30 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Tell Chavez to send in the troops :-) | Aug 30 23:34 |
| twitter1 | I do not think Chavez has an amphibious force sufficient to conquer Redmond. | Aug 30 23:35 |
| twitter1 | He'll have to nuke it from orbit. Tell him to aim well, I live close by. | Aug 30 23:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's Corruption of the Obama Administration in the Press business-technology-hardware-amp-equipment-us-microsoft-lobbying_6808591 ... | Aug 30 23:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's AstroTurf Against Google Blows Up http://ping.fm/V9rQF | Aug 30 23:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple Found Connected to AstroTurf Agencies http://ping.fm/XloZW http://ping.fm/XILmi | Aug 30 23:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Micros^H^H^H^H^HBBC's Ashley Highfield Takes Cheap Shots at Apple http://ping.fm/D1Yeq | Aug 30 23:45 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] It's Official: Vista 7 is Junk for Sub-notebooks http://ping.fm/U1bfT | Aug 30 23:50 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Foresees Compatibility Issues, to Charge $210/Hour http://ping.fm/BeWTx | Aug 30 23:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Office 2007 is Buggy, Uninstaller Broken http://ping.fm/Tqv27 | Aug 30 23:52 | |
| schestowitz | No wonder companies and homes dump Office. | Aug 30 23:53 |
| amarsh04_ | wow, I just received an email from Bradley Kuhn of FSF about the GPL compliance I queried about my ADSL router | Aug 30 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Aug 30 23:54 |
| amarsh04_ | I'll check with the post office in a few minutes to see if I have an acknowledgement card back from the registered letter I sent to the router vendor | Aug 30 23:55 |
| schestowitz | They'll maybe settle or comply | Aug 30 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Win-win | Aug 30 23:59 |
| schestowitz | Did you disassemble things to find infringement? | Aug 30 23:59 |
| amarsh04_ | they may also have to explain why they ignored my earlier email | Aug 30 23:59 |
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