| schestowitz | hex editing? | Aug 31 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| twitter1 | a google search for the phrase "nuke it from orbit" turned up this 2006 advice from M$ http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-11193-0.html?forumID=81&threadID=192833 | Aug 31 00:00 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: in the "too scared to reply" bin | Aug 31 00:00 |
| twitter1 | lame. | Aug 31 00:00 |
| amarsh04_ | BusyBox on iConnect625 login: root | Aug 31 00:00 |
| amarsh04_ | Password: | Aug 31 00:01 |
| amarsh04_ | BusyBox v0.61.pre (2007.10.19-02:33+0000) Built-in shell (ash) | Aug 31 00:01 |
| twitter1 | it was obvious back in 2002 that wipe and reload was the only thing that would fix a malwared out M$ box. | Aug 31 00:01 |
| schestowitz | YouTube says I've watched 16,530 clips since registering. | Aug 31 00:01 |
| schestowitz | WOw | Aug 31 00:01 |
| Xarver | YouLube | Aug 31 00:01 |
| twitter1 | more efficient than TV | Aug 31 00:01 |
| amarsh04_ | that, plus archived mailing list postings from one of their employees on busybox mailing lists convinced me that they included busybox | Aug 31 00:02 |
| schestowitz | LinTube | Aug 31 00:02 |
| Xarver | :P | Aug 31 00:02 |
| Xarver | They should have a video site that uses open video | Aug 31 00:02 |
| Xarver | :P | Aug 31 00:02 |
| Xarver | they already do, but in betas... | Aug 31 00:02 |
| twitter1 | GNU/Linux LiveCD is the best and easiest way to nuke a Wintel box. | Aug 31 00:02 |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: sounds reasonable. PRobably will hit the headlines next week | Aug 31 00:02 |
| twitter1 | prevents recurrence | Aug 31 00:02 |
| twitter1 | truth hurts -> I wonder how long it will take before the “Screw Microsoft” meetings commence? Probably never. It probably won’t happen because Microsoft is doing a good enough job themselves, and I like to think Google is smart enough to know money is much better spent elsewhere | Aug 31 00:03 |
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| twitter1 | jaw drops -> Microsoft does have some diamonds in their rough though — one example is their development tools, frameworks and platforms. This includes WPF, Silverlight and Microsoft Surface | Aug 31 00:04 |
| twitter1 | can't stop laughing. | Aug 31 00:04 |
| Xarver | Lol | Aug 31 00:05 |
| Xarver | Silverlight is shit. | Aug 31 00:05 |
| Xarver | :P | Aug 31 00:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKkOSMaTk4&feature=related | Aug 31 00:05 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Aug 31 00:05 | |
| schestowitz | Xarver: it gained no momentum | Aug 31 00:05 |
| schestowitz | It's Kia | Aug 31 00:05 |
| Xarver | exactly | Aug 31 00:06 |
| Xarver | It's flash on crack. | Aug 31 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft RIA DOA | Aug 31 00:06 |
| Xarver | Brb, going to log out so my volume control shows up. | Aug 31 00:07 |
| Xarver | :P | Aug 31 00:07 |
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| amarsh04 | back in a moment, konversation is going crazy trying to reconnect to another network | Aug 31 00:07 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @daily_finance Microsoft's secret 'screw Google' meetings in D.C. -- DailyFinance http://bit.ly/18wcWR | Aug 31 00:19 | |
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| twitter1 | Windows malware spys on skype http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/154401,skype-trojan-can-log-voip-conversations.aspx | Aug 31 01:16 |
| twitter1 | PJ thinks Psystar is an attack on the GPL. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009081716312060 | Aug 31 01:31 |
| twitter1 | and sees a new Florida lawsuit as more evidence of that http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009082822245880 | Aug 31 01:31 |
| twitter1 | that seems rather twisted | Aug 31 01:32 |
| twitter1 | She quotes some old troll who says that a company can violate the GPL by using "first sale," which is nonsense. | Aug 31 01:41 |
| twitter1 | First sale is about ownership of goods. GPL is about publishing. I can buy a pile of books and sell them for whatever price I want, so long as I'm not a predatory monopoly dumping the books. That does not give me the right to publish new copies of the book. | Aug 31 01:43 |
| twitter1 | A company that's commercially redistributing GPL'd code is on the GPL hook. | Aug 31 01:45 |
| twitter1 | That does not justify Apple's obnoxious restrictions. The GPL is permissive and allows publication so long as software freedom is not violated. Apple's EULAs take freedom away and do not allow sharing at all. | Aug 31 01:47 |
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| schestowitz | Just finished the second episode of Cosmos | Aug 31 01:58 |
| schestowitz | gn | Aug 31 01:58 |
| *cubezzz looks around | Aug 31 02:52 | |
| cubezzz | hey, DaemonFC isn't here :) | Aug 31 02:52 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft just seems full of hatred | Aug 31 02:55 |
| cubezzz | probably due to Ballmer's bad attitude | Aug 31 02:55 |
| cubezzz | not probably, definitely | Aug 31 02:55 |
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| yuhong | http://rdist.root.org/2007/10/03/iommu-virtualization-or-drm/ | Aug 31 04:06 |
| yuhong | (the title says it all) | Aug 31 04:06 |
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| yuhong | http://rdist.root.org/2007/10/03/iommu-virtualization-or-drm/ | Aug 31 04:21 |
| yuhong | (the title says it all) | Aug 31 04:21 |
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| twitter1 | nice Wired article, Roy. http://slashdot.org/submission/1064175/Internet-Driving-Literacy-Revolution | Aug 31 05:42 |
| twitter1 | LOL -> Open access journals have no such imperative, since they are giving it away, so readers have no expectations that the stuff is unique and never seen before. | Aug 31 05:45 |
| twitter1 | I get new stuff on the interwebs all day long. What I expect from formal journals is stale, inconvenient and expensive. | Aug 31 05:46 |
| twitter1 | Perhaps even corrupt. | Aug 31 05:47 |
| twitter1 | Journals of the future will be peer reviewed but the paywall must vanish. | Aug 31 05:47 |
| twitter1 | Most journals function as parasites that prevent the dissemination of generations of knowledge. | Aug 31 05:48 |
| twitter1 | uh oh http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aFf1GKa_OkhU | Aug 31 06:35 |
| twitter1 | if only reporting on Windows 7 were this frank http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/171103/snow_leopard_which_apps_wont_run.html | Aug 31 06:40 |
| twitter1 | Another Windows 7 hype by bashing OSX article http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219500292 | Aug 31 06:42 |
| twitter1 | actually, that one is mostly positive about OSX but it still hypes Windows 7 as if "modern Windows" were worth using. | Aug 31 06:43 |
| twitter1 | SJVN tries to upgrade Windows, OSX and Ubuntu. Ubuntu wins for ease of use, of course. http://blogs.computerworld.com/14629/the_easiest_operating_system_to_update_is | Aug 31 06:51 |
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| twitter1 | N's upgrade problems mirror those seen by Mossberg and Dvorak http://slashdot.org/submission/1064199/Ubuntu-is-Quickest-and-Easiest-Upgrade | Aug 31 07:20 |
| twitter1 | Windows 7 Failure Log is updated http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215957 | Aug 31 07:20 |
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| twitter1 | Did clippy write this article? I usually don't pick on grammar and spelling but this one wins a prize http://topnews.us/content/26797-windows-7-should-appeal-businesses-analysts | Aug 31 07:23 |
| twitter1 | -> Though, analysts believe that Windows 7 should appeal to businesses, yet sluggish economy could the importance of the new operating system. | Aug 31 07:24 |
| twitter1 | WTF does that mean? | Aug 31 07:24 |
| twitter1 | -> August sales slow as PC buyers were waiting for Windows 7 OS and will eventually rise after the launch of windows 7. | Aug 31 07:25 |
| twitter1 | No, sales are slow because M$ killed GNU/Linux netbooks, the only category that was selling. Windows 7, buggy and expensive, won't fix that problem even in a "recovery" | Aug 31 07:26 |
| twitter1 | People want light and portable. | Aug 31 07:26 |
| twitter1 | Business will treat Windows 7 the same way they treated Vista because they are one and the same dog. | Aug 31 07:27 |
| twitter1 | It looks like Vista 7 won't even get the fanboy sales spurt and channel stuffing that Vista did. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/171099/windows_7_rollouts_slow_and_steady_not_a_storm.html | Aug 31 07:29 |
| twitter1 | Hmmmph, that makes two articles based on Directions on Microsoft fluff. | Aug 31 07:30 |
| twitter1 | -> Cherry was bullish on Windows 7, saying it solves numerous issues that kept users away from Vista. | Aug 31 07:31 |
| twitter1 | oh yeah. | Aug 31 07:31 |
| twitter1 | If there was not enough "pent up demand" after six years of XP, there won't be now. | Aug 31 07:32 |
| twitter1 | LMAO -> wildly popular PowerShell scripting | Aug 31 07:32 |
| twitter1 | wild | Aug 31 07:33 |
| twitter1 | the wildly popular posix or wildly popular bash. | Aug 31 07:33 |
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| twitter1 | it will be fun to watch M$ dig up all of their old NT hype to promote their second rate command line. | Aug 31 07:35 |
| twitter1 | Windows 7 deadly sins campaign continues to get good press coverage. | Aug 31 07:36 |
| twitter1 | The M$ shit list must be growing faster than Sweaty B can throw chairs and curse. | Aug 31 07:36 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Bachelor parties are fun. | Aug 31 07:58 | |
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| twitter1 | the kind of netbook that might run Windows 7 http://www.itproportal.com/portal/news/article/2009/8/30/us-firm-launch-dual-screen-laptop/2/ | Aug 31 08:16 |
| twitter1 | only 15 lbs. | Aug 31 08:16 |
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| twitter1 | CMD has a howto for astroturf and front group detection http://www.prwatch.org/node/8531 | Aug 31 08:30 |
| schestowitz | OK, now I do a a marathon of posts (about 10) | Aug 31 08:34 |
| twitter1 | cool | Aug 31 08:43 |
| twitter1 | happy canned goods day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident | Aug 31 08:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What People Say About Microsoft’s War on Open Standards http://bit.ly/SHuAP | Aug 31 09:12 | |
| schestowitz | Thanks for all the links | Aug 31 09:13 |
| schestowitz | I scooped up what's in them that's helpful | Aug 31 09:13 |
| amarsh04 | schestowitz, have you ever covered the taser company's spin-doctoring of the negative aspects of their products? | Aug 31 09:14 |
| amarsh04 | was reading http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/08/31/2671344.htm and wondered what our state was heading for with their use | Aug 31 09:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] http://ping.fm/f1MyY Analysis Links: What Happens to SCO Next | Aug 31 09:22 | |
| schestowitz | amarsh04: They sued Half Life, IIRC | Aug 31 09:23 |
| schestowitz | To police their image, using trademarks | Aug 31 09:23 |
| schestowitz | But I don't know their "PR" efforts (AstroTurf) | Aug 31 09:23 |
| schestowitz | The UK moves towards adopting these too | Aug 31 09:24 |
| schestowitz | Taser is a lot like waterbroarding in the sense that there's campaigns to hide the harms | Aug 31 09:25 |
| amarsh04 | exactly, schestowitz | Aug 31 09:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Insider/Partner Warns All That Microsoft “Destroys” Partners http://ping.fm/G98wb | Aug 31 10:07 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Starter Edition Called “Too Wimpy” by IDG, Compatibility Problems Foreseen http://ping.fm/loKbB | Aug 31 10:39 | |
| oiaohm | I worked out something to day key management server is MS next lock. | Aug 31 10:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft screwing themselves while they try to screw Google: http://is.gd/2J6t6 | Aug 31 11:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Neocleus to be Led by Man Who Gave Previous Employer to Microsoft http://ping.fm/U5cmg | Aug 31 11:15 | |
| Omar87_ | ROFL! Garret Rogers: "Microsoft does have some diamonds in their rough though — one example is their development tools, frameworks and platforms. This includes WPF, Silverlight and Microsoft Surface " | Aug 31 11:39 |
| Omar87_ | Microsoft Surface is a diamond.. :) | Aug 31 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft Surface is a clone of a good idea. | Aug 31 11:40 |
| Omar87_ | Hilarious.. :P | Aug 31 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft surface had the idea of becoming a money system. | Aug 31 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Hahahaha | Aug 31 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Diamonds | Aug 31 11:41 |
| Omar87_ | :D | Aug 31 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Zune!!!!!!!! | Aug 31 11:41 |
| schestowitz | "Surface is OK... now, now... if we only could find customers to buy the darn thing" | Aug 31 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Surface problem is price tag. | Aug 31 11:42 |
| oiaohm | MS wants 15 000 USD for it. | Aug 31 11:43 |
| oiaohm | 5 000 USD they would have sold like hot cakes. | Aug 31 11:43 |
| Omar87_ | Silverlight is a diamond. :D | Aug 31 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Really. | Aug 31 11:45 |
| oiaohm | How do you make that. | Aug 31 11:45 |
| Omar87_ | How do I make what? | Aug 31 11:45 |
| oiaohm | Silverlight is a clone of flash and web standards are threating to nuke flash. | Aug 31 11:46 |
| oiaohm | WPF maybe it is one of the simpler GUI create systems to code in. Just not cross platform. | Aug 31 11:46 |
| oiaohm | That Silverlight as a diamond. | Aug 31 11:47 |
| schestowitz | He joked | Aug 31 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Garret Rogers -- who's he? MS employee? | Aug 31 11:49 |
| schestowitz | "Evangelist"? | Aug 31 11:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Is Microsoft Trying to Derail Another Massive Migration to GNU/Linux in Brazil? http://ping.fm/IgLHT | Aug 31 11:49 | |
| oiaohm | Problem I have with surface by the time MS wakes up they have to drop the price. Linux will be out with multi touch. | Aug 31 11:51 |
| oiaohm | And multi terminal from a single machine. | Aug 31 11:51 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @cleomorgause: 30+ PHP Best Practices for Beginners http://bit.ly/obYNM #php | Aug 31 12:00 | |
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| schestowitz | tacone: go to WordPress panel | Aug 31 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Do you get that Akismet error? | Aug 31 12:02 |
| schestowitz | It seems to have been down for hours | Aug 31 12:02 |
| tacone | lemme see | Aug 31 12:03 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: did you see the multitouch video? | Aug 31 12:03 |
| tacone | schestowitz: it has a maximum of comments per month i think | Aug 31 12:03 |
| tacone | otherwise you have to pay | Aug 31 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I see | Aug 31 12:04 |
| schestowitz | Maybe that's why | Aug 31 12:04 |
| schestowitz | Thanks | Aug 31 12:04 |
| schestowitz | "A DNS problem or firewall is preventing all access from your web server to Akismet.com. Akismet cannot work correctly until this is fixed. Please contact your web host or firewall administrator and give them this information about Akismet and firewalls." | Aug 31 12:04 |
| schestowitz | "Last checked 7 hours ago." | Aug 31 12:04 |
| tacone | i don't see any error. | Aug 31 12:04 |
| schestowitz | Ah. It's back up. | Aug 31 12:04 |
| tacone | oh ok | Aug 31 12:04 |
| schestowitz | It checks this once in x hours | Aug 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | First time I see it going down | Aug 31 12:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Boycott Novell covers a particular type of stories http://ping.fm/B6dLz | Aug 31 12:06 | |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: I did but that is still not in all the main line toolkits | Aug 31 12:24 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Losses and Antitrust Barriers for Microsoft Online http://ping.fm/7MHwK | Aug 31 13:05 | |
| oiaohm | More I am reading about 2.6.32 kernel is going to be great. KSM in there. vga aborbitor and a lot of other important clean ups. | Aug 31 13:12 |
| oiaohm | So chrismas is really going to be nice. | Aug 31 13:12 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Acabei de almoçar mesmo agora... não sou muito apreciador de sopas... especialmente quando se tem de mastigar muito... | Aug 31 13:17 | |
| *trmanco is cleaning up some obsolete packages | Aug 31 13:22 | |
| *trmanco is done | Aug 31 13:23 | |
| oiaohm | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/1531792/open-sauce-saves-novell-bacon | Aug 31 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Anyone else suspect spell checker problems. | Aug 31 13:27 |
| schestowitz | No | Aug 31 13:27 |
| schestowitz | it's intentional humour | Aug 31 13:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: seen the video yet? | Aug 31 13:28 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> oiaohm: did you see the multitouch video? | Aug 31 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Yes schestowitz. I have also see the glut intergration video with multitouch. | Aug 31 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Now we still have qt and gtk to do the intergration and X11 to have the patches be out main line. | Aug 31 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Basically 2010 is looking like the year Linux goes desktop and beyond. | Aug 31 13:36 |
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| MinceR | every year is the year of linux on the desktop | Aug 31 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: man | Aug 31 13:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | you'd love con's new sched patch | Aug 31 13:39 |
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| Diablo-D3 | it makes linux desktops perfect | Aug 31 13:39 |
| MinceR | con is back? | Aug 31 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: yup | Aug 31 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | hes working on a new sched to replace mingo's | Aug 31 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | since mingo cant code worth of shit | Aug 31 13:40 |
| MinceR | :) | Aug 31 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | you should add #ck on oftc to your autojoin | Aug 31 13:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple Connected to AstroTurfing Agency Reverb Communications http://ping.fm/6UhpM | Aug 31 13:48 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Vou ver um filme | Aug 31 13:54 | |
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| oiaohm | Diablo-D3 sorry to say con had the issue wrong. | Aug 31 14:14 |
| oiaohm | 90 percent of the problem has nothing to do with the scheduler and desktop. | Aug 31 14:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @coalhot: is pissed at the Free Library of Philadelphia and the way they block you from using firefox on your flash drive...BUH! | Aug 31 14:15 | |
| oiaohm | People like to forget Windows NT was at first designed to be a real-time OS. So does not have excess ammounts of locking in the OS design. | Aug 31 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel developers for a time went insane with lock usage. | Aug 31 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Real-time tree complete merge should complete sometime in 2010 as well. | Aug 31 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Seeing most of the desktop sched issues disappear. | Aug 31 14:18 |
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| Aondo | so no separate realtime patch for the kernel? | Aug 31 14:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Deep Influence in Malta and the United States http://ping.fm/MaHcw | Aug 31 14:43 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Tidying the house on a bank holiday. Dust a plenty! Also lots of clothes for the charity shop. Including a few !debian t-shirts ;) | Aug 31 15:07 | |
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| Diablo-D3 | back | Aug 31 15:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Seca de filme... | Aug 31 15:10 | |
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| peon-dev | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Vista-SP2-Fails-to-Install-on-Intel-x64-Multiple-CPUs-Multi-Core-CPUs-120300.shtml | Aug 31 15:53 |
| peon-dev | some vista fodder | Aug 31 15:53 |
| peon-dev | cheers | Aug 31 15:54 |
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| schestowitz | I guess it's then same for Vista 7 then | Aug 31 15:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | you want to read the most epic blog post ever? | Aug 31 15:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://dooce.com/2009/08/28/containing-capital-letter-or-two | Aug 31 15:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | BAM | Aug 31 15:57 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: Bilski Revisited, FFII Seems Confused, EU Seemingly Hijacked by Large Corporations < http://ur1.ca/au25 > | Aug 31 16:13 | |
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| wallclimber | This one made me laugh, very funny stuff...it has to do with AT&T and iPhones and IE: | Aug 31 16:31 |
| wallclimber | http://www.semiaccurate.com/2009/08/20/t-cant-see-apple-products-it-sells/ | Aug 31 16:31 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @phoronix: ALSA 1.0.21 Released With Many Driver Updates http://ff.im/-7qVRO | Aug 31 16:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Recording @uupc at my place tonight, which will make a pleasant change (for me) :) | Aug 31 17:11 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352212,00.asp | Aug 31 17:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | 6 cores in 40 watts | Aug 31 17:18 |
| *phoenixz (n=quassel@201.175.36.100) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 17:21 | |
| *Lns (n=lns@pdpc/supporter/professional/lns) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 17:30 | |
| schestowitz | We need AMD, so that's good | Aug 31 17:31 |
| schestowitz | http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/08/30/lawsuits-over-the-hold-your-wee-for-a-wii-contest-or-why-i-dont-like-to-leave-my-house/ | Aug 31 17:32 |
| schestowitz | He seems to just be blogging a lot this weekend (after the ban) | Aug 31 17:32 |
| schestowitz | British plan to tackle asteroids < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8230138.stm > This doesn't prevent supernova-type impact which you can't see in advance cause it's reaching almost the speed of light | Aug 31 17:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard apology or not, see what got exposure from Microsoft Press(R): http://ping.fm/KHluc | Aug 31 17:35 | |
| schestowitz | Why is Google using Solr for search? < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10321751-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad > | Aug 31 17:37 |
| *proteus (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 17:54 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Can Ubuntu 9.10 Outperform Mac OS X 10.6? http://is.gd/2JGKe || Yes it can, even in Alpha stage... | Aug 31 17:59 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] "Of the 26 tests shown in this article, Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" was the clear winner in 12 of the 26 tests" | Aug 31 18:00 | |
| trmanco | http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/windows7sins-teaser-video | Aug 31 18:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Teaser video from the Windows7sins event: http://is.gd/2JHeV | Aug 31 18:05 | |
| cubezzz | surely it's still possible to buy a Linux netbook? | Aug 31 18:07 |
| MinceR | it's definitely not easy | Aug 31 18:07 |
| MinceR | especially here in hungary | Aug 31 18:07 |
| cubezzz | I've been buying used Panasonic Toughbooks and putting Fedora 10 on them | Aug 31 18:08 |
| cubezzz | seems to be a lot of those around, and Linux works well on them | Aug 31 18:08 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1531874/most-software-companies-infringe-patents http://www.cato.org/tech/tk/090828-tk.html | Aug 31 18:08 |
| schestowitz | Oops. * zoobab01 | Aug 31 18:08 |
| cubezzz | MincR, does GNU/Linux have a big following in Hungary? | Aug 31 18:09 |
| cubezzz | MinceR | Aug 31 18:10 |
| MinceR | it seems to score well on linuxcounter, but the masses are clueless | Aug 31 18:10 |
| cubezzz | not positive, but I don't think we have software patents in Canada | Aug 31 18:11 |
| cubezzz | the patent has to include something about hardware | Aug 31 18:12 |
| cubezzz | Dell has been shipping some laptops with dual boot, XP + Ubuntu | Aug 31 18:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Sins – Teaser Video http://ping.fm/gQUVW | Aug 31 18:19 | |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: shipping them? | Aug 31 18:20 |
| schestowitz | That'd be news | Aug 31 18:20 |
| cubezzz | yeah, his customer of mine said he got a dual boot machine and he didn't even ask for it to be dual boot | Aug 31 18:21 |
| cubezzz | XPS series I think | Aug 31 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Still Windows tax | Aug 31 18:22 |
| cubezzz | true | Aug 31 18:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft Deal Fails to Appease Yahoo Shareholders: http://is.gd/2JIFP | Aug 31 18:23 | |
| schestowitz | It rains again | Aug 31 18:26 |
| schestowitz | For wallclimber it's over 40 degrees celcius | Aug 31 18:27 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: is it really that much of a drought down south? | Aug 31 18:27 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: it's like serving you caviar with white bread on the side | Aug 31 18:28 |
| cubezzz | ;-) | Aug 31 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Then charging premium for the bread | Aug 31 18:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] August 2009 Web Server Survey: http://is.gd/2JJb3 | Aug 31 18:30 | |
| trmanco | schestowitz, nop | Aug 31 18:30 |
| trmanco | it was already low | Aug 31 18:30 |
| schestowitz | I found out something interetsing today | Aug 31 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft-Netcraft | Aug 31 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft uses them for recommendation in 2000 | Aug 31 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Mike Pettyjohn | Aug 31 18:31 |
| schestowitz | What's his connection, if any, to Microsoft? | Aug 31 18:31 |
| trmanco | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/31/microsoft_screw_google/ | Aug 31 18:36 |
| trmanco | pft | Aug 31 18:36 |
| trmanco | they deny it | Aug 31 18:37 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 18:52 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html | Aug 31 18:55 |
| schestowitz | Hey, wallclimber | Aug 31 18:55 |
| schestowitz | I haven't opened the mail yet | Aug 31 18:56 |
| schestowitz | I made 13 posts so far today, so maybe I should wait with the MOG one till the morning | Aug 31 18:56 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Gavin Clarke | Aug 31 18:56 |
| schestowitz | He's a Microsoft shiller | Aug 31 18:56 |
| schestowitz | So he helps the Microsoft PR | Aug 31 18:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @natetrue: "...atheism destroys the possibility of personal identity, choice, and objective and subjective meaning." http://k2w.qlnk.net/ | Aug 31 18:57 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, telling kids they might go to burn in h*ll really give them "personal identity, choice, and objective and subjective meaning" | Aug 31 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Advocating And Supporting Insecure Practices < http://ardchoille42.blogspot.com/2009/08/canonical-advocates-insecure-practices.html > | Aug 31 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva and Ubuntu both default to auto-login IIRC | Aug 31 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Bad practise | Aug 31 19:01 |
| wallclimber | No worries and no hurry, it'll all get done in time. | Aug 31 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Lock workstation and anyone can get it by merely rebotting | Aug 31 19:01 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: :-) | Aug 31 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Yes, just 4 more | Aug 31 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Not long ones, either | Aug 31 19:02 |
| wallclimber | That's good. | Aug 31 19:02 |
| wallclimber | is there a way to make the font bigger in gedit? | Aug 31 19:02 |
| wallclimber | can I set the font size? | Aug 31 19:03 |
| wallclimber | as it is, it strains my eyes to use it very much | Aug 31 19:03 |
| wallclimber | is there a better text editor? | Aug 31 19:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A fazer o jantar | Aug 31 19:05 | |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-173-64-154-25.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 19:09 | |
| yuhong | Well, to be honest, I think the recent Reverb incident about astroturfing was about iPhone apps. | Aug 31 19:11 |
| yuhong | Not about any of Apple's own products, but third-party iTunes applications. | Aug 31 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Sun sales plummet 30.6% in Q4 < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/31/sun_f2009_numbers/ > | Aug 31 19:12 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: doesn't matter | Aug 31 19:12 |
| schestowitz | The iPhone market is already covered elsewhere | Aug 31 19:12 |
| schestowitz | The point of the BN post is different | Aug 31 19:12 |
| schestowitz | APple works with cyber-thugs | Aug 31 19:13 |
| yuhong | Yes, but do they itself actually ask that PR firm to do unethical things? | Aug 31 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Turns out EMC co-founder didn't quite die | Aug 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | He shot himself: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/30/richard_egan_obituary/ | Aug 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Smoked and got cancer | Aug 31 19:15 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.146.54.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 19:16 | |
| yuhong | I think they probably got enough marketing from fanboys, thanks to the magic of SJ. But we will see, of course. | Aug 31 19:16 |
| schestowitz | "The devastating blow of stage 4 lung cancer came in May this year. He was not a healthy man, also suffering from diabetes, emphysema, and high blood pressure. Three months later he acted decisively, to end his life." | Aug 31 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Ewww "Joe Tucci" | Aug 31 19:16 |
| yuhong | http://rdist.root.org/2007/10/03/iommu-virtualization-or-drm/ | Aug 31 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer's buddy | Aug 31 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Magic of Steve Jobs? | Aug 31 19:17 |
| schestowitz | WHat's that about? | Aug 31 19:17 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: opinion? | Aug 31 19:17 |
| yuhong | Well known, I think. | Aug 31 19:17 |
| yuhong | But that is not my point. | Aug 31 19:17 |
| schestowitz | ballmer is also well known | Aug 31 19:18 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit (Client Quit) | Aug 31 19:18 | |
| schestowitz | He doesn't make many fanboys | Aug 31 19:18 |
| yuhong | Of course. | Aug 31 19:18 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.146.54.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 19:18 | |
| yuhong | Not as many as Steve Jobs, certainly. | Aug 31 19:18 |
| yuhong | My point is that, do Apple actually use this PR firm to do unethical things. | Aug 31 19:19 |
| yuhong | http://blogs.bnet.co.uk/sterling-performance/2009/06/09/apple-magic-how-does-steve-jobs-do-it/ | Aug 31 19:20 |
| yuhong | That is not my point however. | Aug 31 19:21 |
| schestowitz | WHo knows...... | Aug 31 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Let's check | Aug 31 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Help me out and do some googling | Aug 31 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Were there incidents were apple got busted badly? | Aug 31 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Like letters from dead people? | Aug 31 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Or bribing bloggers? They do send schwag | Aug 31 19:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=apple+astroturfing&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Aug 31 19:23 |
| schestowitz | BN in #3 and #4. Heh. | Aug 31 19:23 |
| yuhong | Anyway, Apple just released Snow Leopard, and back in WWDC 2009, Apple used similar words to BN to describe Vista 7, which I asked you to cover. | Aug 31 19:23 |
| yuhong | And the first one was about a lobbying group doing astroturfing. | Aug 31 19:24 |
| schestowitz | http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-players/iriver-h120-20gb/4864-6490_7-30571493-642.html | Aug 31 19:25 |
| schestowitz | " | Aug 31 19:25 |
| schestowitz | "beware of the Apple Shills" | Aug 31 19:25 |
| schestowitz | on November 7, 2003 | Aug 31 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Pros: Beware of reading too many reviews by the shills and plants from Apple. The I-Pod should truly fear this product, as I think it looks much cooler, and the joystick is great for navigation. I have had an iRiver flash player for over a year now, with no i | Aug 31 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Cons: When is somebody going to come out with a good portable player with quality audio outputs that will transfer to my stereo system and has a decent remote." | Aug 31 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Penny Arcade Apple Shills? < http://www.ben.geek.nz/penny-arcade-apple-shills/ > | Aug 31 19:27 |
| *phoenixz has quit (Connection timed out) | Aug 31 19:27 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/490005049.html "Even long-time Apple shills such as John Gruber and Macworld Magazine took Apple to task for its cheap shot, which prompted a well-placed and -timed jab back from Microsoft." | Aug 31 19:28 |
| schestowitz | The guy who wrote this is known to be quite a Microsoft fan himself | Aug 31 19:28 |
| first line of penny arcade article -> Update: I was wrong. And I apologise | Aug 31 19:29 | |
| yuhong | The last one was about Windows viruses, and the interesting thing is that there is enough Mac trojans now that Apple has built in basic protection into Snow Leopard. | Aug 31 19:32 |
| "basic protection" was "built in" to Xandros too, but it was a farce. | Aug 31 19:33 | |
| basic protection comes from good design, execution and diversity | Aug 31 19:33 | |
| yuhong | Yep, running as non-admin isolates viruses on all modern operating systems. | Aug 31 19:34 |
| Praises for mac are believable. I know people who love their macs and the things they say make sense. | Aug 31 19:35 | |
| Praises for Windows are not believable. No one loves their Pee Cee anymore. | Aug 31 19:35 | |
| ThistleWeb | both Apple and Linux do have the advantage of genuine fans, something | Aug 31 19:36 |
| Real Windows users are defensive and insulting, but don't have much real praise for the software they use. It's all "this is what everyone uses, you commie!" | Aug 31 19:36 | |
| ThistleWeb | both Apple and Linux do have the advantage of genuine fans, something MS will never have* | Aug 31 19:36 |
| yuhong | Yep, I know, it is called conformity. | Aug 31 19:37 |
| and investment protection. | Aug 31 19:37 | |
| they seek to protect their time and money investments | Aug 31 19:37 | |
| ThistleWeb | even the most loyal MS employee must wonder at the quality of their products if they constantly have to pay people for praise, and can't win it on merit | Aug 31 19:37 |
| yuhong | Xandros Anti-Virus was indeed a GUI front-end on ClamAV. | Aug 31 19:38 |
| ThistleWeb | but then, if they're living in a bubble where all they see are MS products | Aug 31 19:38 |
| One of the first things people think of when you tell them that they could be using free software is, "do I have to throw away all of my software?" | Aug 31 19:38 | |
| they fear leaving what they perceive is a majority position. | Aug 31 19:39 | |
| yuhong | And the answer is no, there is Wine or a couple of other solutions for running Win apps. | Aug 31 19:39 |
| of course, M$ throws their software away for them quicker than gnu/linux does | Aug 31 19:39 | |
| yuhong | Quicker? | Aug 31 19:39 |
| wine is probably better at running XP apps than Windows 7 will be, for example | Aug 31 19:40 | |
| schestowitz | This looks like Windows: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/1018_signs.jpg | Aug 31 19:40 |
| ThistleWeb | you do need to be careful when talking of savings by switching to FOSS, as money already spent can't be reclaimed, only escaping the next round of spending to get future versions can be saved | Aug 31 19:40 |
| yet with dosbox you can run Windows 3.1 and applications. | Aug 31 19:40 | |
| yuhong | And Windows's NTVDM too. | Aug 31 19:40 |
| sticking with windows is spending good money after bad, the sooner you switch the more you save. | Aug 31 19:41 | |
| yuhong | Upgrades are free in Linux world in general. | Aug 31 19:42 |
| yuhong | But I wonder how long Linux binary compatiblity last. | Aug 31 19:42 |
| Vista was a tipping point. There's way too much inertia in the turn for M$ to remain dominant. | Aug 31 19:42 | |
| yuhong | Of course not. | Aug 31 19:42 |
| People are beginning to understand that the Windows experience will not improve. | Aug 31 19:42 | |
| That makes alternatives the safe place to go. | Aug 31 19:43 | |
| schestowitz | Lousy "prizes" http://tech.yahoo.com/news/infoworld/20090831/tc_infoworld/89628 | Aug 31 19:43 |
| schestowitz | <yuhong> But I wonder how long Linux binary compatiblity last. | Aug 31 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Binary? | Aug 31 19:43 |
| schestowitz | See contradicton | Aug 31 19:43 |
| ThistleWeb | Vista was the first time the sheep rebelled against MS en masse | Aug 31 19:44 |
| yuhong | Of course. | Aug 31 19:44 |
| schestowitz | No product is removed from the market, either | Aug 31 19:44 |
| yuhong | Of course. | Aug 31 19:44 |
| schestowitz | You could virtualise Fedora 2, free of charge (if there's no way to comple anymore) | Aug 31 19:44 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder how many will fall for Windows 7, then realise further down the line they've been conned | Aug 31 19:44 |
| yuhong | And Apple took big advantage of the rebellion. | Aug 31 19:45 |
| ThistleWeb | and how many of those will give MS anoother chance with Windows 8 | Aug 31 19:45 |
| less than were suckerd by vista | Aug 31 19:45 | |
| schestowitz | yuhong: Apple is for the rich, still | Aug 31 19:45 |
| yuhong | If you don't believe me, take a look at the Get a Mac ads from that era. | Aug 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | APple has success in the US | Aug 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | So the English-speaking media pretends it's just Windows and Apple | Aug 31 19:45 |
| yuhong | I know, and the "Apple tax" was a big part of MS's defense against Apple. | Aug 31 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft and Apple focus on US, EU and Japan cause that's where the $$ is | Aug 31 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Not market share | Aug 31 19:46 |
| schestowitz | They are $-driven, not market share-driven | Aug 31 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Linux spreads better | Aug 31 19:46 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Aug 31 19:46 |
| schestowitz | "have it, it's free," is the Linux way | Aug 31 19:46 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Aug 31 19:47 |
| schestowitz | It would not make economic sense for APple to build shops in Brazil | Aug 31 19:47 |
| ThistleWeb | I reckon most peeps don't think stuff like DRM affect them, until their shiney new Windows insists that some music they try to play is illegal, or some app they want to run is illegal...at which point they will not be so keen to continue using Windows if they have to constantly look for iffy cracks to get round it | Aug 31 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Same with the OS and viruses | Aug 31 19:48 |
| ThistleWeb | "like butter, Linux spreads faster and smoother" | Aug 31 19:48 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: on what exactly? | Aug 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | They buy a new PC when viruses slow Windows down | Aug 31 19:48 |
| yuhong | Of course not. | Aug 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | And buy no music when it expired | Aug 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | magentar: | Aug 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | <yuhong> I think they probably got enough marketing from fanboys, thanks to the magic of SJ. But we will see, of course. | Aug 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | ^^ MinceR | Aug 31 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Mr. Magic Jobs | Aug 31 19:49 |
| MinceR | i agree | Aug 31 19:49 |
| MinceR | but they still make their own | Aug 31 19:49 |
| schestowitz | SJ... shines your kitchen | Aug 31 19:49 |
| schestowitz | It's mmmmmmmmmmagic | Aug 31 19:49 |
| MinceR | the fag^Wfanboys would probably miss the official marketing if it disappeared. | Aug 31 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Watch the language there, MinceR | Aug 31 19:49 |
| ThistleWeb | Aopple only want the affluent, who can afford to splash out on convienience and street-cred-with-their-mates stuff | Aug 31 19:49 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: is Linux is butter (better), does it make Microsoft toast? | Aug 31 19:50 |
| yuhong | Redicious, I long ago posted a link, about what Apple actually does. | Aug 31 19:50 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe, but I'm now in a quandry as I like burnt toast | Aug 31 19:50 |
| yuhong | Funny. | Aug 31 19:50 |
| schestowitz | I burnt y toast on Friay | Aug 31 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Almost set off the alarm | Aug 31 19:51 |
| ThistleWeb | @/ I may never look at toast the same way again | Aug 31 19:51 |
| schestowitz | *Friday | Aug 31 19:51 |
| ThistleWeb | well, when I say burnt....not too burnt but showing | Aug 31 19:51 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Aug 31 19:51 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: it was an honest typo ;) | Aug 31 19:51 |
| schestowitz | A Beginner's Guide to Compiling Source Code http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/216 | Aug 31 19:52 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: at some point you lose food molecules | Aug 31 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Nutrients turn to smoke | Aug 31 19:52 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah I know, I look for well fired morning rolls too | Aug 31 19:53 |
| yuhong | Yep, I know. | Aug 31 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Ideal is to get rid of the h2o and make no burning at all | Aug 31 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Just crisp | Aug 31 19:53 |
| yuhong | http://www.fasblog.com/electronics/why-are-americans-obsessed-with-apple/ | Aug 31 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Fed chairman hit by ID thieves http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/28/fed_chair_id_theft_scam/ he must be Fed Up | Aug 31 19:57 |
| ThistleWeb | apple are about being trendy, being part of an exclusive club. Many peeps buy them because they want to be accepted by their peers as part of that club | Aug 31 19:57 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Aug 31 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Apple is not trendy | Aug 31 19:58 |
| schestowitz | It's an image they buy | Aug 31 19:58 |
| schestowitz | PR drek | Aug 31 19:58 |
| yuhong | I would not go that far. | Aug 31 19:58 |
| schestowitz | It's actually a bit demeaning to some of their cleintele | Aug 31 19:58 |
| ThistleWeb | it helps that apple make slick products which give a very good user experience to the peeps who buy into apple's lifestyle and use apple apps for everything | Aug 31 19:58 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Aug 31 19:59 |
| ThistleWeb | people buy into the apple lifestyle | Aug 31 19:59 |
| ThistleWeb | not just a product | Aug 31 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Is it really "good user experience"? | Aug 31 19:59 |
| ThistleWeb | they associate themselves with the apple image | Aug 31 19:59 |
| schestowitz | I've used those and didn't notice the difference | Aug 31 19:59 |
| schestowitz | It's appliances, that's all | Aug 31 19:59 |
| yuhong | I think so. | Aug 31 19:59 |
| yuhong | Yep, integration sure play a lot of role here. | Aug 31 19:59 |
| ThistleWeb | from what I've heard, if you use your apple products with other apple products in the narrow ways apple like, then you'll have a very good experience | Aug 31 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Is musicians like Apple, do they like DRM like apple? ;-) | Aug 31 20:00 |
| schestowitz | People should be taught about what Apple does to music | Aug 31 20:00 |
| yuhong | Yep, Can you say integration? | Aug 31 20:00 |
| MinceR | only the "musicians" who own record companies | Aug 31 20:00 |
| MinceR | (metallica) | Aug 31 20:00 |
| yuhong | Well, they are now DRM-free for music. | Aug 31 20:00 |
| ThistleWeb | you only start to see how much you are restrained when you start to step beyond what apple want from it's users | Aug 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: nop | Aug 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | That's the PR lie | Aug 31 20:01 |
| yuhong | Why? | Aug 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | See OS X | Aug 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | DRM mess | Aug 31 20:01 |
| ThistleWeb | like prefering a different music app than iTunes | Aug 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They also have tiered pricing | Aug 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | No DRM=more expensive | Aug 31 20:01 |
| yuhong | No, not anymore. | Aug 31 20:01 |
| yuhong | But at first, yes. | Aug 31 20:01 |
| MinceR | http://www.defectivebydesign.org/sites/defectivebydesign.org/files/appledrmfail.png | Aug 31 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Snow Leopard security - The good, the bad and the missing http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/29/snow_leopard_security/ | Aug 31 20:02 |
| yuhong | They are now DRM-free for music, not ONLY for music. | Aug 31 20:02 |
| ThistleWeb | plenty of people do like the apple lifestyle | Aug 31 20:02 |
| yuhong | They are now DRM-free for music, but ONLY for music. | Aug 31 20:02 |
| ThistleWeb | although apple do seem to be doing their damnest to help test the faith of some fans / customers with some of the control freakery things they do | Aug 31 20:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have DRM-free books | Aug 31 20:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're called... books. | Aug 31 20:03 |
| MinceR | i have DRM-free books, too. they are called "text files" | Aug 31 20:04 |
| ThistleWeb | each new story about apple's insane control freakery I see a few more previous apple fans say that's one too many, and claim not to buy apple any more | Aug 31 20:04 |
| yuhong | And on the OS X "DRM mess", I like to mention PT_DENY_ATTACH, which is easily patched out because the xnu source is public. | Aug 31 20:05 |
| ThistleWeb | of course, any comments like that about any company can easily be just words, or heat of the momment | Aug 31 20:05 |
| schestowitz | US Senate cyber security bill sparks debate, "internet takeover" fears http://www.boingboing.net/2009/08/28/us-senate-cyber-secu.html | Aug 31 20:06 |
| yuhong | As an example of open source politics inside Apple. | Aug 31 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Apple yanks apps and uses patents offensively | Aug 31 20:07 |
| ThistleWeb | surely "internet takeover" is much more likely with a MS infrastructure, as well as the MS built in back doors, you have MS exploits leaving it a malware writers dream | Aug 31 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Also remember the breaking of interop, which had amarok stand up with Palm | Aug 31 20:07 |
| MinceR | yuhong: that PT_DENY_ATTACH part only shows crApple's intentions and their disdain for even their "developers". | Aug 31 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Palm filed a complaint against Apple | Aug 31 20:07 |
| MinceR | yuhong: the executable format they use still has support for DRM. | Aug 31 20:07 |
| MinceR | yuhong: and nobody asked them for that. | Aug 31 20:07 |
| ThistleWeb | palm are just wankers lol | Aug 31 20:08 |
| ThistleWeb | pun intended* | Aug 31 20:08 |
| MinceR | well, now they are | Aug 31 20:08 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: well yeah... just why countries other than the US need to abandon Widnows | Aug 31 20:08 |
| MinceR | but so are crApple. | Aug 31 20:08 |
| yuhong | But that is not my point, my point is that with xnu being open source it is easily patched out. | Aug 31 20:08 |
| yuhong | There is some kexts that patch it out, but that is not even nesserary when you have the source. | Aug 31 20:09 |
| MinceR | my point is that crApple thought their "developers" would be too stupid to realize that. | Aug 31 20:09 |
| yuhong | And yes, Apple yanking apps is well known. | Aug 31 20:09 |
| MinceR | DRM being ineffectual (as it always is) doesn't mean the users of DRM didn't want to screw their customers. | Aug 31 20:10 |
| MinceR | it means they've tried hard and failed. | Aug 31 20:10 |
| yuhong | Of course. | Aug 31 20:10 |
| MinceR | and i don't think such behavior should be condoned, or even tolerated. | Aug 31 20:10 |
| schestowitz | US Dems fill inboxes with 419 scams < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/28/democratic_party_419_abuse/ > | Aug 31 20:11 |
| yuhong | http://amarok.kde.org/blog/archives/1076-Apple-breaks-Palm-Pre-compatibility.-Or-an-open-letter-to-Palm.html | Aug 31 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Linux And Viruses: Should You Worry? < http://www.nillabyte.com/blog.php?b=218 > | Aug 31 20:15 |
| ThistleWeb | Apple continually breaking compatibility baffles me, the user still buys from the Apple store | Aug 31 20:15 |
| yuhong | http://lowendmac.com/ed/fox/09ff/apple-path-to-evil.html | Aug 31 20:15 |
| ThistleWeb | same with blocking the iPod on linux | Aug 31 20:16 |
| ThistleWeb | they're still buying an iPod | Aug 31 20:16 |
| MinceR | they're idiots. | Aug 31 20:17 |
| MinceR | and that article gets it wrong | Aug 31 20:17 |
| ThistleWeb | it seems like being determined to refuse some customers unless they are willing to conform exactly to what you want | Aug 31 20:17 |
| MinceR | crApple's path to evil began with the Lisa | Aug 31 20:18 |
| yuhong | BS, IMO. | Aug 31 20:18 |
| MinceR | and throwing all respect toward computing and users to the wind. | Aug 31 20:18 |
| MinceR | starting the cult of the idiot box. | Aug 31 20:18 |
| ThistleWeb | mind you, it does go with the Apple "smugness" gene they build into everything | Aug 31 20:18 |
| yuhong | Lisa was long long ago, in 1983. | Aug 31 20:18 |
| MinceR | (and m$ gladly joined the cult of the idiot box) | Aug 31 20:18 |
| MinceR | yuhong: indeed. | Aug 31 20:18 |
| yuhong | And was Lisa considered evil? I don't think so. | Aug 31 20:19 |
| MinceR | i do consider it evil | Aug 31 20:19 |
| MinceR | it was the first instance of disposing of functionality in favor of "usability" | Aug 31 20:19 |
| yuhong | That IMO is not that evil. | Aug 31 20:19 |
| MinceR | i consider it the antithesis of computing. | Aug 31 20:19 |
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| MinceR | computers are there to help us process and manage information, not to be a toy we can give to idiots to play with. | Aug 31 20:20 |
| yuhong | Maybe, but i would not go so far to consider that evil. | Aug 31 20:20 |
| yuhong | Did anyone in 1983 consider Lisa evil, I doubt so. | Aug 31 20:21 |
| MinceR | if functionality that would allow a particular user to get his job done is disposed, he won't get any closer to doing his job, no matter how easy it is for him to fool around otherwise. | Aug 31 20:21 |
| ThistleWeb | in 1983 the big kahuuna was IBM | Aug 31 20:21 |
| MinceR | i was too young to even know about it then | Aug 31 20:21 |
| ThistleWeb | companies like Apple and MS were plucky upstarts | Aug 31 20:22 |
| yuhong | Of course, but that is bad, not evil. | Aug 31 20:22 |
| MinceR | (and too far inside the eastern bloc) | Aug 31 20:22 |
| ThistleWeb | peeps favour the underdog | Aug 31 20:22 |
| yuhong | Yep, and that is well known. | Aug 31 20:22 |
| ThistleWeb | they give a lot more leeway to the underdog in what they do to compete | Aug 31 20:22 |
| yuhong | How did MS became evil was another mess altegether. | Aug 31 20:22 |
| MinceR | well, i consider "well, you're just too damn stupid to be able to ever use this function, so we'll just throw it out!" evil. | Aug 31 20:22 |
| MinceR | m$ has always been evil | Aug 31 20:23 |
| yuhong | I would consider it bad, but not evil. | Aug 31 20:23 |
| yuhong | I always like to dig out this when talking about how MS has become evil. | Aug 31 20:27 |
| yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/01/antitrust-letters-doj/ | Aug 31 20:27 |
| ThistleWeb | part of me wonders if govts would prefer windows to be the defacto standard even if MS wasn't gaming the system | Aug 31 20:27 |
| MinceR | afaik they started out evil -- conning companies into buying their shoddy wares, many of which were stolen to begin with. | Aug 31 20:28 |
| ThistleWeb | an OS so insecure is a malware writers delight, which means it's easy for the security services to infect a suspects pc and spy on them | Aug 31 20:28 |
| ThistleWeb | through a shell of course | Aug 31 20:28 |
| ThistleWeb | if the average user was on a more secure OS, that'd be much harder to do and they'd run out of easy targets | Aug 31 20:29 |
| ThistleWeb | I wouldn't be at all surpried to find some proof leaked in years to come about MS making a deal with DHS to ignore certain spyware in return for a freindly panel looking into anti-trust alegations | Aug 31 20:30 |
| ThistleWeb | act like a peice of software was a MS .dll | Aug 31 20:31 |
| ThistleWeb | and marked "safe" | Aug 31 20:31 |
| yuhong | Maybe, but I would not go that far. | Aug 31 20:31 |
| ThistleWeb | a system which lets software install without the user even being aware of it must be great for getting intel | Aug 31 20:32 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe it wouldn't be so blatant | Aug 31 20:32 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe it would only be a deal for the US govt | Aug 31 20:33 |
| ThistleWeb | being the true patriots that they are /sarcasm | Aug 31 20:33 |
| yuhong | And, yep, MS's "stealing" of code from user groups was why the GPL was created. | Aug 31 20:33 |
| ThistleWeb | it's just a thought from the tinfoil hat department | Aug 31 20:34 |
| yuhong | And it was 6 years after that open letter to hobbyists that RMS decided that leaving other users helpless was bad, and thus started the free software movement. | Aug 31 20:35 |
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| schestowitz | "It looks like the tipping point is arriving in the mobile phone space. | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | If all these ship, then Samsung will be among those providing a | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | linux-based mobile phone | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fonearena.com/blog/2009/08/23/samsung-i8320-leaked.html | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/08/27/samsung-confirms-its-linux-based-smartphone-os/ | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | Hope they can take time to clean house and find a nice out of the way | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | place for any residual 'softers. | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | The Samsung phone looks like it will be LiMo-based: | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.limofoundation.org/ | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | - | Aug 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | PS. I'm still thinking about the 30 & 120 second summaries." | Aug 31 20:54 |
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| ThistleWeb | maybe Linux needs to be more what Windows users expect, perhaps Malware Linux would punch through more :P | Aug 31 21:03 |
| ThistleWeb | complete with pre-installed wine running as root | Aug 31 21:03 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Aug 31 21:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | too many people do run as root. and distro's that run as root by default should be shunned | Aug 31 21:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | anybody here up on the Psystar article by PJ at http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090829201948789 | Aug 31 21:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have always agreed with PJ, but on Psystar she seems to have come out in support of Apple, and their EULA and EFI | Aug 31 21:07 |
| ThistleWeb | I don't think she favours anyone, she looks at it an interprets what she sees | Aug 31 21:08 |
| Omar87_ | LOL | Aug 31 21:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | myself I cannot agree with the Apple or MS EULA so I run Linux | Aug 31 21:08 |
| Omar87_ | I love it when people start comparing netbooks to iphones. :) | Aug 31 21:08 |
| ThistleWeb | tries to explian complicated lawyer speak to non-lawyer types so they get the general jist of what's going on | Aug 31 21:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ThistleWeb, it almost seems she does favor Apple to me. PJ still has great respect from me, and always will. | Aug 31 21:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | PJ shines of the lawyer end, for sure | Aug 31 21:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But I view the EULA of MS and Apple with the same low regard as software patents in general. | Aug 31 21:11 |
| schestowitz | New video: Novell and his friends < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB2nbklha_M > | Aug 31 21:11 |
| schestowitz | Hey, Chips_B_Malroy | Aug 31 21:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Roy | Aug 31 21:11 |
| Omar87_ | Hi all | Aug 31 21:11 |
| schestowitz | Omar87_: yes, maybe to show how useless iphone is | Aug 31 21:12 |
| schestowitz | The iphone ads hee brag about copy and paste *LOL* | Aug 31 21:12 |
| schestowitz | *here | Aug 31 21:12 |
| Omar87_ | schestowitz: Some of them claim that netbooks suck because the monitor is too small, lol. :) | Aug 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: yes, I skep Groklaw on Psystar | Aug 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | She's wasting FAR too much time defending a lousy comapny | Aug 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Apple has enough money for lawyers | Aug 31 21:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | If anyone is interested in the comments on PJ's site, I would say the comments are going about 3 to 1 against Apple in favor of Psystar. | Aug 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | It's like silly people who defend OIN and help LF (IBM and coalition) | Aug 31 21:14 |
| schestowitz | But.....Psystar has resemblance to SCO | Aug 31 21:14 |
| Omar87_ | schestowitz: They claim that you can bring the iPhone closer to your eyes while you can't do that with netbooks. | Aug 31 21:14 |
| schestowitz | That's why I thin pJ covers it | Aug 31 21:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Apple is as guilty IMO of illegal Eula as MS is | Aug 31 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Omar87_: why bother? | Aug 31 21:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am not trolling PJ, as she has done so much for us. | Aug 31 21:15 |
| Omar87_ | schestowitz: lol | Aug 31 21:15 |
| schestowitz | It might explode, too | Aug 31 21:15 |
| Omar87_ | schestowitz: Yeah. | Aug 31 21:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I agree with PJ that Apple will most likely win the court case, but thats because here in the states, big powerful corps win | Aug 31 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Aug 31 21:17 |
| schestowitz | They make the rules | Aug 31 21:17 |
| schestowitz | SO they can adapt them | Aug 31 21:17 |
| schestowitz | Rich people are also admired in the States | Aug 31 21:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | some of these corrupting corporations started out in the USA, but they have become mulitnational | Aug 31 21:17 |
| schestowitz | It comes through (mis)education | Aug 31 21:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, they are admired, because they control the news media | Aug 31 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Aug 31 21:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | think MSNBC | Aug 31 21:18 |
| schestowitz | And school curriculum | Aug 31 21:18 |
| schestowitz | GE | Aug 31 21:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | CNN | Aug 31 21:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Fox | Aug 31 21:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you will never ever hear someone on those channels say that the Gates Foundation could just be a way to dodge taxes and control money | Aug 31 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | Restore Ubuntu Panels Back To Their Default Settings http://helpforlinux.blogspot.com/2009/08/restore-ubuntu-panels-back-to-their.html | Aug 31 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: I meant, NBC=GE, MS | Aug 31 21:21 |
| schestowitz | People don't mind | Aug 31 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Tell them that a profit-making companies tells them what to think of the world and they won't mind | Aug 31 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: USA Today has just published Gates PR | Aug 31 21:22 |
| schestowitz | And the Microsoft blogs linked to it, obviously | Aug 31 21:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | PJ has stated that if Psystar wins, and defeats the Eula, that will hurt the GPL. I don't believe that. She also says that it will kill MS. Not so sure about that, unless there was an easy way to get your MS tax money back here in the US | Aug 31 21:22 |
| schestowitz | This is appalling | Aug 31 21:22 |
| schestowitz | I don't care about Psystar | Aug 31 21:22 |
| schestowitz | It's some dodgy tiny company not worth the fuss | Aug 31 21:23 |
| schestowitz | I've not been persuaded otherwise | Aug 31 21:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | me either, Psystar itself is nothing to me. Mac OS X I don't use. I had a loaner with Tiger for about 6 weeks a year or so ago. I did not like it compared to Linux. It was safer than windows, but what isn't? | Aug 31 21:24 |
| schestowitz | PJ writing about APple reminds me of Phoronix | Aug 31 21:24 |
| schestowitz | They get some other visitors... the Mac types | Aug 31 21:24 |
| schestowitz | [Phoronx does OS X benchmarks now] | Aug 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | But it's a distraction IMHO | Aug 31 21:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | guess u right | Aug 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | PJ could use the time looking at Linux topic. Again, IMHO | Aug 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | *topics | Aug 31 21:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Psystar case will go on forever, is my guess, just like SCO | Aug 31 21:25 |
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| schestowitz | OS X does not do nice desktop effects | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | I just use the apps | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Firefox and all | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Linux has anti-aliasing | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I didn't ask MinceR to do what he did | Aug 31 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox malware is now in the wild | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | I went to the gym | Aug 31 21:26 |
| MinceR | i regret nothing | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | He kicked you for some reason when left in guard, BUT | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | You have to stop trolling | Aug 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | You're already starting | Aug 31 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/08/31/mozilla-firefox-attacked-by-a-spyware-extension/ | Aug 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Anti-Firefox rhetorics | Aug 31 21:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mac OS X you had to hunt for software like Windows, not a secure way to get your software, therefore not quite as secure as most GNU/Linux, IMO | Aug 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Extension=adding software | Aug 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I can also add the rm -rf extension | Aug 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | That's not a flaw | Aug 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Now, let's stay on topic | Aug 31 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | not if it's already deleted all your files and account settings | Aug 31 21:28 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: they have no repos | Aug 31 21:28 |
| schestowitz | They download and run stuff | Aug 31 21:28 |
| DaemonFC | if the payload is already delivered, how does removing it help? | Aug 31 21:28 |
| schestowitz | I.e. same as Winders [sic] | Aug 31 21:28 |
| trmanco | I'm sure every Firefox user knows where to get his extensions | Aug 31 21:28 |
| DaemonFC | provided you can even still log in or know there's something wrong (it could be hiding its activities) | Aug 31 21:29 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: um, you could use addons.mozilla.org? | Aug 31 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Warsow 0.5 released < http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2602 > | Aug 31 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Gamezzzzz for Linux | Aug 31 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla does https | Aug 31 21:29 |
| schestowitz | They also probe updates | Aug 31 21:29 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Is my twitter account still connected to this channel? | Aug 31 21:29 |
| schestowitz | After that Korean translation that was malicious | Aug 31 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | it is a social engineering exploit, the kind of people who install this tuff probably just forget about it and it lurks in the background spying on everyone that uses the computer | Aug 31 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | why would they know it was there? | Aug 31 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: yes, why? | Aug 31 21:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Such an amazing video! I recommend everyone in the world to watch it: http://bit.ly/RRmnM | Aug 31 21:29 | |
| DaemonFC | *stuff | Aug 31 21:29 |
| *MinceR social engineers DaemonFC to run "format c: /u /autotest" as Administrator | Aug 31 21:30 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: let's not move in that subject | Aug 31 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | that's why I said that shared systems are the most at-risk and there's nothing to stop them from brute forcing your sudo password | Aug 31 21:30 |
| schestowitz | And nothing about your coder-decoder nonsense, either | Aug 31 21:30 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: No, nothing, I was just trying something. Thanks. | Aug 31 21:30 |
| schestowitz | So you got a new player I saw in RSS | Aug 31 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | so I suggest not letting other users have access to sudo or an Administrator account | Aug 31 21:30 |
| MinceR | yeah, brute forcing passwords is omg-easy | Aug 31 21:30 |
| schestowitz | Not i* at least | Aug 31 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: It is if they have unlimited run time to figure it out | Aug 31 21:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | This Firefox malware that DaemonFC puts the link to, is exactly what we are saying about Mac OS X and windows getting software from all over, its why GNU/Linux is more secure getting almost everything from a repo. Even with Firefox, its best to get your extenstions and addons from them. | Aug 31 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | given infinite time, almost any password chosen by a human can be cracked | Aug 31 21:31 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: sure, if the life expectancy of the universe is not an issue | Aug 31 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | it wouldn't take that long, most passwords would be cracked in a matter of minutes or hours | Aug 31 21:32 |
| MinceR | who said a human has to choose? we have really nice random password generators around | Aug 31 21:32 |
| MinceR | even diceware | Aug 31 21:32 |
| Omar87 | DaemonFC: This ain't no theory, ya know. :) | Aug 31 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | no it's not a theory, brute forcing works surprisingly well on most users because they can set up weak passwords | Aug 31 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | most server-grade operating systems force a minimum length, a certain number of capital letters, and two or three numbers | Aug 31 21:33 |
| MinceR | users can set up weak passwords. they can also dunk their computer in a tub of water while it's turned on. | Aug 31 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | you can't make an account that uses weaker passwords cause it won't let you | Aug 31 21:34 |
| MinceR | i'd be happy to hear about those server-grade operating systems. | Aug 31 21:34 |
| Omar87 | DaemonFC: That's why companies use mechanisms to change the passwords every fraction of a second. | Aug 31 21:34 |
| MinceR | (also, handholding a server admin? wtf?) | Aug 31 21:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Linux has been so secure it has not been necessary to set up more than simple passwords | Aug 31 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | Windows Server has forced this since 2003 | Aug 31 21:34 |
| MinceR | LOL | Aug 31 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Order your entropy enlarger from Pfizer now | Aug 31 21:34 |
| MinceR | windows is a server-grade operating system now? | Aug 31 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | more so than consumer Windows | Aug 31 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Ah gawd | Aug 31 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Now WIndows marketing | Aug 31 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's not a bad idea to force the user to set up a good password | Aug 31 21:34 |
| MinceR | um, what isn't more so than consumer windows? | Aug 31 21:35 |
| MinceR | m$-dos? | Aug 31 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | even most Linux distributions warn you now | Aug 31 21:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and those complicated password have not helped windows that much either | Aug 31 21:35 |
| MinceR | it's a bad idea to let someone without any expertise to admin a server _at all_ | Aug 31 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | that's why there's so many botnets and such, shared computers | Aug 31 21:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its a bad idea to let anyone on the internet with windows period | Aug 31 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | you let a kid on your system, it can be toast in minutes | Aug 31 21:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | a malware target just waiting to happen, windows is | Aug 31 21:36 |
| MinceR | i don't give root to the kid i let on my system. | Aug 31 21:36 |
| ThistleWeb | when people are forced to use passwords that are too long or awkward with chars, numbers etc they're more likely to write them down | Aug 31 21:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or forget them | Aug 31 21:36 |
| trmanco | there is no way a normal computer can brute force a strong password protected with a md5 salted hash | Aug 31 21:36 |
| MinceR | nor do i give them my own password. | Aug 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: that's a local security issue | Aug 31 21:37 |
| schestowitz | Like wife/kids | Aug 31 21:37 |
| MinceR | people should use password managers | Aug 31 21:37 |
| trmanco | the only method that comes into my mind now is with rainbow tables, huge ones | Aug 31 21:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | how many windows users have brought me their machines that cannot remember their passwords | Aug 31 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: But Firefox's extensions essentially make it an operating system on an operating system | Aug 31 21:37 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: my pw manager if my Palm address book | Aug 31 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | that's exactly the kind of bad behavior that made cross platform malware possible | Aug 31 21:38 |
| schestowitz | WIth 'locks' | Aug 31 21:38 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: emacs is an OS on an OS too! | Aug 31 21:38 |
| trmanco | yep | Aug 31 21:38 |
| schestowitz | [Which are easy to overcome] | Aug 31 21:38 |
| trmanco | :D | Aug 31 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Linux / UNIX: Test Graphical Performance ( 3D Acceleration / FPS ) < http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-test-my-graphical-performance/ > | Aug 31 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3130/tspyeboda.jpg | Aug 31 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | There's what the extensions menu would look like with this spyware installed | Aug 31 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | pretty convincing huh? | Aug 31 21:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | every OS will be open to Trojans. But GN | Aug 31 21:40 |
| MinceR | the one that runs out of ROM and nobody can install apps on would probably be safe | Aug 31 21:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But GNU/Linux will be less suseptible to | Aug 31 21:40 |
| MinceR | (thin clients might work, if you lock down the server enough) | Aug 31 21:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Trojans are most files come from repos | Aug 31 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Which is why I welcomed the idea of "Splashtop Linux" | Aug 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Too diverse | Aug 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Also randoming stuff | Aug 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Bad extensions are a matter of scarcity | Aug 31 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | it makes it easy to browse the web from something that has no access to your installed system | Aug 31 21:41 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: well, i didn't look at it that way, but you're right about that | Aug 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | When people have loaded repos they don't look 'out there | Aug 31 21:41 |
| MinceR | then again, a livecd/livedvd could do that too | Aug 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | 'Same with Firefox extsnsions | Aug 31 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but it's much slower that way | Aug 31 21:42 |
| schestowitz | I only use stuff from Mozilla's repo | Aug 31 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | running from your system firmware ROM, booting into Splashtop is nearly instant | Aug 31 21:42 |
| schestowitz | How To Enable RAR Support In Ubuntu Linux http://www.addictivetips.com/ubuntu-linux-tips/how-to-enable-rar-support-in-ubuntu-linux/ | Aug 31 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | You can boot into a working Linux environment that can't harm your system in under 10 seconds | Aug 31 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | that was what impressed me | Aug 31 21:42 |
| schestowitz | The issue is this: Advocating And Supporting Insecure Practices < http://ardchoille42.blogspot.com/2009/08/canonical-advocates-insecure-practices.html > | Aug 31 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Auto-login is silly | Aug 31 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Esp. in shared envs | Aug 31 21:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Windows and Mac users have to hunt all over the internet for freeware programs and trojans are commonplace on those systems | Aug 31 21:43 |
| DaemonFC | it's also funny because the Splashtop environment wouldn't be affected by any censorware installed in the real operating system | Aug 31 21:43 |
| DaemonFC | so kids could hit like, F8 and boot into an OS that doesn't have the nannyware | Aug 31 21:44 |
| schestowitz | NICE >> "While I am still pondering a good topic for my next CS oriented post, I thought I would finally take the time to promote and show off some of the changes I have been making to the Kubuntu installer, Ubiquity." http://www.shtylman.com/archives/44 | Aug 31 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: I've seen a few interesting examples of malware piggybacking on cracked Windows software | Aug 31 21:45 |
| DaemonFC | it is a real concern, probably overplayed by Microsoft and the BSA, but it's out there | Aug 31 21:45 |
| DaemonFC | the best lies have a grain of truth because it makes them easier to swallow | Aug 31 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | saying "pirated software can contain viruses" is true, saying "most pirated software contains viruses" is a lie with an element of truth | Aug 31 21:46 |
| schestowitz | :S Python... Gross < http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2009/08/python-gross.html > | Aug 31 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | it still accomplishes their goal of scaring the reader without providing real stats | Aug 31 21:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, almost any software can be trojaned. P2P stuff, I would think too. Freeware stuff for windows is routinely. | Aug 31 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft put some of those "infected" Windows discs on torrent sites | Aug 31 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | and conspired with antivirus makers to "detect" the "infection" | Aug 31 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | but you should still make sure the MD5 and SHA1 match what the official image computes to | Aug 31 21:49 |
| DaemonFC | I've seen where antivirus makers have been paid to detect things like keygens that upon further analysis, posed no harm to the system (it's true that some really are harmful though) *shrugs* | Aug 31 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | almost all the name brand antivirus detects software cracks and keygens that are benign to system security, I've seen NOD32, Avast, AVG, Norton, McAfee, Trend PC-Cillin, and Norton all doing it | Aug 31 21:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The last xp install I did a had a piece of windows freeware that a trojan passed threw 4 antivirus programs and 1 antimalware scan, and only after install did it detect. It was so bad, that even after I got rid of it, the antivirus sites recommended repartitioning, installing a fresh mbr, reformatting | Aug 31 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | err, I mentioned Norton twice :P | Aug 31 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | probably because it's the worst out of the bunch for false alarms and letting real malware in | Aug 31 21:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | windows is not worth the pain of installing because the the trojan problem | Aug 31 21:52 |
| DaemonFC | I worked on my aunt's laptop for over three hours a couple months ago pulling out spyware infestations that bypassed and disabled Norton, crippled Windows Firewall and Defender, and shut down Automatic Updates | Aug 31 21:52 |
| DaemonFC | it's really that easy to bypass Norton that all the really bad stuff out there does it | Aug 31 21:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | In windows, my trick was to install about 4 antivirus programs but to use only one as a shield, or memory resident. That way I could update and scan with each. | Aug 31 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | the only reason I bothered to disinfect the system was so I could back up her documents without it freezing and crashing | Aug 31 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | I still had to do a format and reinstall | Aug 31 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | the damage that the spyware did to that copy of Vista was permanent, and even removing the spyware wouldn't fix it | Aug 31 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Enchance your vlc player with new skins < http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/341-enchance-your-vlc-player-with-new-skins > | Aug 31 21:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | for bad windows malware infections, you had better run dban on your hard drive DaemonFC | Aug 31 21:54 |
| schestowitz | because of Ubuntu many people think of Linux as the "Brown OS"| | Aug 31 21:54 |
| schestowitz | jono: how is the re-theming of Ubuntu coming along? | Aug 31 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I wish they'd switch to the Dust theme by default | Aug 31 21:54 |
| MinceR | it seems Karmic will be red | Aug 31 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | that's a lot more elegant than "Human" | Aug 31 21:54 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: part of karma? | Aug 31 21:54 |
| MinceR | at least the bootup race seemed to show it as such | Aug 31 21:55 |
| MinceR | but it was a low-quality video | Aug 31 21:55 |
| schestowitz | It's more like greyish from what I saw | Aug 31 21:55 |
| schestowitz | People show Ubuntu as the "Linux reference" | Aug 31 21:55 |
| schestowitz | It bodes badly next to other OSes | Aug 31 21:55 |
| schestowitz | It's just a theme | Aug 31 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | I'm really watching KDE more than GNOME anyway lately | Aug 31 21:55 |
| schestowitz | But they could pick something from gnome-look | Aug 31 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME distributions like Ubuntu have done a lot of bad things that I don't really like or agree with | Aug 31 21:56 |
| trmanco | kde has better integration than gnome | Aug 31 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | mainly with regards to dumbing the system down | Aug 31 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | and Pulseaudio | Aug 31 21:56 |
| trmanco | pulseaudio is fine | Aug 31 21:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am coming across more and more hard drives that cannot be reconized until DBAN is run on them because of windows malware that even affects the partition tables and the mbr | Aug 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Fine. | Aug 31 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | dumbing down of GNOME is why the GUI utilities are useless and you end up making shell scripts to avoid them | Aug 31 21:56 |
| MinceR | pulseaudio sucks | Aug 31 21:56 |
| trmanco | ah geeze | Aug 31 21:57 |
| MinceR | it should be made non-standard | Aug 31 21:57 |
| MinceR | i mean non-default | Aug 31 21:57 |
| trmanco | pulseaudio works | Aug 31 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather have "too many options" in a program than have them remove the one or two that I need | Aug 31 21:57 |
| MinceR | until you load the system | Aug 31 21:57 |
| trmanco | I have my system fully loaded | Aug 31 21:57 |
| trmanco | you are probably using an old version | Aug 31 21:57 |
| MinceR | the last version i used was in jaunty, i think | Aug 31 21:58 |
| MinceR | in any case, it's pointless bloat | Aug 31 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Windows has audio hangups | Aug 31 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | Jaunty uses Pulseaudio 0.9.14 | Aug 31 21:58 |
| schestowitz | When I used it anyway it did | Aug 31 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | which had many visible bugs | Aug 31 21:58 |
| trmanco | pulseaudio 0.9.14 | Aug 31 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Decade ago | Aug 31 21:58 |
| trmanco | yes | Aug 31 21:58 |
| trmanco | and it works | Aug 31 21:58 |
| MinceR | well, when i used windows it had task scheduling that made it practically unfit for playing music in the background | Aug 31 21:58 |
| MinceR | it probably still has that | Aug 31 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Windows chops music | Aug 31 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The new audio stack in Windows works fairly well | Aug 31 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Old Linux had more of this issue | Aug 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Old as in old | Aug 31 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 9x was pure garbage | Aug 31 21:59 |
| jono | schestowitz, not had much time to work on it | Aug 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | That's working very well now | Aug 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Same for cursor interaction | Aug 31 21:59 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, it does when you putt too much load onto the FS | Aug 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | in SuSE 8 the cursor would slow down under load | Aug 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Not it's extremely rare as it gets high priority | Aug 31 21:59 |
| trmanco | simply by opening explorer is too much for the FS | Aug 31 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | I never really liked 9x, I switched over to NT as soon as they had hardware DirectX acceleration (Windows 2000) | Aug 31 21:59 |
| *Guest45182 is now known as Balrog | Aug 31 21:59 | |
| schestowitz | I'm sure jono changes the brown to somehing black | Aug 31 22:00 |
| MinceR | NT couldn't even set the 0th palette entry | Aug 31 22:00 |
| MinceR | it was unfit for gaming | Aug 31 22:00 |
| DaemonFC | I was dual booting with NT 4 but I went with Windows NT 5 (2000) full time | Aug 31 22:00 |
| DaemonFC | I used 98 though, til it was out | Aug 31 22:00 |
| MinceR | the background flash in WinQuake looked horrid because of that bug | Aug 31 22:00 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: toying yes, gaming no | Aug 31 22:01 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: NT 4 had to use software accelerated DirectX | Aug 31 22:01 |
| DaemonFC | that caused a whole bunch of issues | Aug 31 22:01 |
| MinceR | (we played that a lot on school computers back in the day) | Aug 31 22:01 |
| *trmanco times haven't changed... | Aug 31 22:02 | |
| DaemonFC | basically with NT 4, gaming was off limits unless you had a really really fast CPU | Aug 31 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | which I did, but I still had Windows 98 for games, which allowed hardware acceleration :P | Aug 31 22:02 |
| trmanco | what kind of fast? 1Ghz? | Aug 31 22:02 |
| MinceR | putting the windowing system into the kernel did a fat lot of good to it :> | Aug 31 22:02 |
| MinceR | X was still faster in userspace | Aug 31 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | trmanco: By 1998 standards, 300-400 Mhz was hella-fast | Aug 31 22:02 |
| trmanco | :| | Aug 31 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | I started that system with dual K6/2 300s | Aug 31 22:03 |
| trmanco | tape sized cpu's | Aug 31 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | and ended up with dual K6/2 550s | Aug 31 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 31 22:03 |
| trmanco | hehe | Aug 31 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | so it could handle anything I threw at it even without a graphics accelerator, I only really had those for the extra visual effects and later when games did start needing them | Aug 31 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | I had two Voodoo 5 5500's in SLI mode by the end of the upgrades | Aug 31 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia and ATI just had nothing like it (Nvidia got it when they bought 3dfx) | Aug 31 22:05 |
| DaemonFC | also had 768 kbps ADSL back when that was considered practically lightspeed :P | Aug 31 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | I ran an OpenNap server til I got a cease and desist notice from the RIAA | Aug 31 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | that was before they were suing people but were sending out threatening letters like crazy | Aug 31 22:07 |
| schestowitz | <DaemonFC> trmanco: By 1998 standards, 300-400 Mhz was hella-fast | Aug 31 22:07 |
| schestowitz | No, maybe 97 or 96 | Aug 31 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 98 still ran on a 486 | Aug 31 22:07 |
| DaemonFC | at 66 Mhz I believe | Aug 31 22:08 |
| DaemonFC | not exactly fast, but it did run, there was no "Product Activation" back then so if you had one Windows disc you were using that same copy on everything in the house | Aug 31 22:09 |
| DaemonFC | so I had an old 486 I tried it out on | Aug 31 22:09 |
| MinceR | even if you had a 286 in the house? | Aug 31 22:09 |
| DaemonFC | 286 was a 16-bit CPU you know? | Aug 31 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | it may run the original MINIX or Windows 3.1 in Standard Mode | Aug 31 22:10 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 3.11 only ran in 386 enhanced mode, there was a debugging mode that would start up in Standard Mode, but you couldn't do much | Aug 31 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | so you really really needed a 386 by then | Aug 31 22:11 |
| trmanco | I had an old IBM Pentium with 3.11 | Aug 31 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | but that was like 1993 if I recall, a 286 was already ancient | Aug 31 22:12 |
| trmanco | 3.1* | Aug 31 22:12 |
| trmanco | I then installed 95 | Aug 31 22:12 |
| MinceR | "if you had one Windows disc you were using that same copy on everything | Aug 31 22:12 |
| MinceR | in the house" | Aug 31 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | ok, within reason | Aug 31 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | geez | Aug 31 22:13 |
| MinceR | now that we bring reason into the picture, there isn't that much left for win98 ;) | Aug 31 22:13 |
| MinceR | even the old pentium mmx 233 in the other room runs painfully slow with it | Aug 31 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | it's more constrained by too little RAM than slow processors | Aug 31 22:14 |
| MinceR | iirc it has 48 MB or something weird like that | Aug 31 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | there's your problem | Aug 31 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | at the time, 32 megs was the bare minimum | Aug 31 22:15 |
| MinceR | yes, the problem is that in windows, memory management sucks even more than task scheduling | Aug 31 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | not really | Aug 31 22:15 |
| MinceR | yes really | Aug 31 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | the performance monitoring tools will show you how much RAM each process is using | Aug 31 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 uses about as much as Ubuntu | Aug 31 22:16 |
| trmanco | wtf | Aug 31 22:16 |
| trmanco | windows 7 uses twice as much as ubuntu | Aug 31 22:16 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: i think you're counting disk buffers into that memory usage figure on ubuntu there :> | Aug 31 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | even with tons of tabs open in Opera, and Utorrent running several torrents, and playing a music file in Foobar2000, and the antivirus, and all that, I'm sitting at about 1 gig of used RAM right now | Aug 31 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu doesn't last that long before it's up over a gig | Aug 31 22:17 |
| trmanco | ... | Aug 31 22:17 |
| MinceR | but at least now you don't run out of GDI and USER memory (or whatever those pools were) | Aug 31 22:17 |
| trmanco | that's a lie | Aug 31 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | without at least a gig, Ubuntu is jsut painful | Aug 31 22:17 |
| trmanco | as MinceR said you must be counting buffers | Aug 31 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | I tried to run it on an older Dell with 512 megs and it was thrashing the disk trying to keep up with Firefox | Aug 31 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | yeah, sure it was | Aug 31 22:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The problem with windows is: malware, price, stability, phoning home, WGA, DRM, constant patches, upgrade cycles, reboots almost daily | Aug 31 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | I don't believe anyone would be happy with Ubuntu and 512 megs of RAM | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | free -m | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | total used free shared buffers cached | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | Mem: 1002 924 77 0 28 418 | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | -/+ buffers/cache: 477 524 | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | Swap: 2243 33 2209 | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | see cached | Aug 31 22:18 |
| trmanco | that's what counts | Aug 31 22:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | believe it | Aug 31 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: I've had this system up for over 10 days now | Aug 31 22:19 |
| trmanco | I mean buffers/cache | Aug 31 22:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have a relative running Ubuntu with 512mb of ram, happy too | Aug 31 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | the last reboot was to install Daemon Tools which has to run as a rootkit to fool SecuROM | Aug 31 22:19 |
| trmanco | I know of people running ubuntu on 512MB | Aug 31 22:19 |
| trmanco | even less | Aug 31 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | I popped in a spare 512 MB module in the Dell to bring it up to 1 GB | Aug 31 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu woke up then | Aug 31 22:20 |
| trmanco | nah | Aug 31 22:20 |
| trmanco | then must must have a crapload of bloat then | Aug 31 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | nope, freshly installed | Aug 31 22:20 |
| trmanco | that bullshit | Aug 31 22:20 |
| trmanco | is | Aug 31 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not saying GNOME isn't bloated though | Aug 31 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | it really is | Aug 31 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | XFCE will run fine in 512 megs | Aug 31 22:21 |
| trmanco | and so will gnome | Aug 31 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME needs 1 GB | Aug 31 22:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Gnome might be a little more bloated | Aug 31 22:21 |
| trmanco | but it's not that bloated | Aug 31 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | I ended up using LXDE regardless | Aug 31 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | it's just so much faster than GNOME on 1 GB or less that it's ridiculous | Aug 31 22:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but wait till Miguel adds more Mono to it, then it really will be bloated | Aug 31 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | with LXDE, you're looking at running Linux well with 256 megs | Aug 31 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | you may get away with 128 megs with WindowMaker | Aug 31 22:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, agreed the window manager in Linux makes a huge difference in memory useage | Aug 31 22:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IceWM | Aug 31 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | it's night and day really, if you don't have at least 1 GB, use LXDE is what I always tell people | Aug 31 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | cause the system lagging behind you is annoying as all hell | Aug 31 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | much more so than putting up with a "lighter" desktop environment | Aug 31 22:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its good for running virtuabox on marginal machines, then use a low resource WM | Aug 31 22:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but most distro's will let you select the window manager at the log in screen | Aug 31 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | It's nothing against GNOME or KDE, but more features always means more resources | Aug 31 22:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sometimes users need the full feature wm | Aug 31 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME has a lot of feature bloat and fewer and fewer options with every release, it's really bizarre | Aug 31 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | how something can get more bloated and less useful at that rate in 6 month intervals is mind blowing | Aug 31 22:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I stopped trying to keep up with Gnome | Aug 31 22:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or Ubuntu | Aug 31 22:26 |
| trmanco | you're on what now? | Aug 31 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | I've started promoting KDE as the preferable full desktop lately, and LXDE as the lightweight | Aug 31 22:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mepis 8, KDE 3.5.10 | Aug 31 22:27 |
| trmanco | :) | Aug 31 22:27 |
| Omar87_ | Man, programming is so damn boring when you work alone. | Aug 31 22:27 |
| trmanco | Omar87, alone how? | Aug 31 22:28 |
| trmanco | alone at home or alone (closed source)? | Aug 31 22:28 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: With no team. | Aug 31 22:28 |
| trmanco | yes sometimes it might be frustrating | Aug 31 22:28 |
| trmanco | but it's even more frustrating when you have a team of incompetent idiots... | Aug 31 22:29 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: So true. | Aug 31 22:29 |
| trmanco | I prefer working alone in that case | Aug 31 22:29 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: Same here. | Aug 31 22:29 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: I'm trying to learn Django. Too bad Python is not so famous in Jordan. So finding a good team of Django'ers in Jordan seems more like a dream that won't come true anytime soon. | Aug 31 22:31 |
| trmanco | heh | Aug 31 22:31 |
| trmanco | is that some kind of a framework? | Aug 31 22:32 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: Yup. | Aug 31 22:32 |
| MinceR | webapp framework | Aug 31 22:32 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: An amazing one. | Aug 31 22:32 |
| trmanco | heh, good luck | Aug 31 22:32 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: Thanks. | Aug 31 22:32 |
| MinceR | it's probably better than Ruby on Fails :> | Aug 31 22:32 |
| Omar87 | MinceR: LOL. :D | Aug 31 22:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Aug 31 22:33 |
| trmanco | ... | Aug 31 22:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | java > * | Aug 31 22:33 |
| trmanco | I like ruby | Aug 31 22:33 |
| neighborlee | who cares about gnome..they think mono is safe using tomboy, what else is there to say | Aug 31 22:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | gnome sucks anyhow | Aug 31 22:33 |
| MinceR | i do -- they have a panel that can display the clock vertically :> | Aug 31 22:33 |
| trmanco | oh c'mon | Aug 31 22:33 |
| MinceR | (and the date) | Aug 31 22:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm pondering if kde4 is worth trying out | Aug 31 22:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | as much as I hate kde, gnome has gotten incredibly shitty | Aug 31 22:34 |
| trmanco | Diablo-D3, I've heard it is | Aug 31 22:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | waiting for as long as I can to move to KDE4 | Aug 31 22:35 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: What would you recommend as an alternative to Gnome and KDE? | Aug 31 22:35 |
| trmanco | I'll move in a couple of weeks | Aug 31 22:35 |
| trmanco | I'm tired of gnome | Aug 31 22:35 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: Please don't tell me XFCE. | Aug 31 22:35 |
| trmanco | time for a fresh start | Aug 31 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | omar87: something not involving X | Aug 31 22:36 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: I'm starting to hate too. | Aug 31 22:36 |
| trmanco | I don't hate it | Aug 31 22:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Runs on Vista 7 (Picture) http://ping.fm/j7zyl | Aug 31 22:36 | |
| Diablo-D3 | I wonder if xfce has gotten unfucked | Aug 31 22:37 |
| Omar87 | trmanco: Actually, yeah, me neither. But I'm kind of feeling bored of it. | Aug 31 22:37 |
| trmanco | I'm just sick of seeing the same apps and panels... I don't mod much my desktop... how it comes is how a normally use it with some minor little tweaks | Aug 31 22:37 |
| trmanco | And I don't like to mix | Aug 31 22:37 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: e.g.: Fluxbox? | Aug 31 22:37 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: or Openbox? | Aug 31 22:38 |
| trmanco | if the DE is gtk based, I stick with gtk based apps, no QT... | Aug 31 22:38 |
| trmanco | and vice-versa | Aug 31 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I could care less about the dumb qt/gtk fuckery anymore | Aug 31 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I can make either look like the other | Aug 31 22:38 |
| trmanco | what do you use? | Aug 31 22:38 |
| trmanco | ascii? | Aug 31 22:38 |
| MinceR | i freely mix gtk and qt apps | Aug 31 22:38 |
| MinceR | and the curse at the bugs of both toolkits :> | Aug 31 22:39 |
| MinceR | (gtk seems to be more annoying though) | Aug 31 22:39 |
| trmanco | I like to keep my stuff as consistent as possible | Aug 31 22:39 |
| *cubezzz-laptop (n=cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 22:39 | |
| MinceR | i use qtcurve for both so they look consistent | Aug 31 22:39 |
| MinceR | (except for qt4 apps, which tend to look a little different) | Aug 31 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | QT 4 seems to be a much better toolkit than GTK+ | Aug 31 22:40 |
| trmanco | what about all those gtk libs that are loaded when you first use an app | Aug 31 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | it's unfortunate that Google chose GTK+, probably throwing all the Ubuntu users a bone | Aug 31 22:40 |
| MinceR | i have 4GB of RAM. :> | Aug 31 22:40 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC, didn't you have some kind of disease against KDE? especially KDE 4.x | Aug 31 22:40 |
| trmanco | ah | Aug 31 22:40 |
| trmanco | I see | Aug 31 22:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: OS deathmatch: Snow Leopard vs Windows 7 http://notnews.today.com/?p=628 | Aug 31 22:40 | |
| trmanco | I only have 1 :| | Aug 31 22:40 |
| MinceR | anyway, those libs never seemed all that problematic to me | Aug 31 22:41 |
| trmanco | and I don't expect to upgrade anytime soon | Aug 31 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | the quality of the toolkit and the quality of KDE 4 are separate issues | Aug 31 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | KDE as of 4.3 is pretty good though, and usable as of 4.2 | Aug 31 22:41 |
| trmanco | as the toolkit evolves so does kde | Aug 31 22:41 |
| trmanco | I see you slightly changed your mind about it | Aug 31 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | well, KDE 4.0 was a disaster and it took them a while to sort it out | Aug 31 22:42 |
| trmanco | ... | Aug 31 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | when that was the competition, GNOME looked better | Aug 31 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 31 22:42 |
| trmanco | I wonder how gnome 3.0 will be | Aug 31 22:42 |
| MinceR | it was a work in progress | Aug 31 22:42 |
| MinceR | releasing it was the disaster. | Aug 31 22:42 |
| MinceR | trmanco: i fear for GNOME Shell. | Aug 31 22:42 |
| trmanco | I phear mono based gnome | Aug 31 22:42 |
| MinceR | it might mean loss of panel functionality. | Aug 31 22:42 |
| MinceR | (what little there was, anyway) | Aug 31 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: They never would have taken the criticism if they labeled it as a beta and kept KDE 3.x going for another year | Aug 31 22:43 |
| trmanco | that would just take sime time to get use to | Aug 31 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | they were trying to get more users to stumble onto more bugs and report them | Aug 31 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | and they got it :P | Aug 31 22:43 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: or if distro maintainers have waited with forcing users to switch. | Aug 31 22:43 |
| trmanco | ... and they fixed them | Aug 31 22:43 |
| trmanco | most of them | Aug 31 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | Debian and Mepis are still using KDE 3.5, right? | Aug 31 22:44 |
| MinceR | i'm afraid GNOME will live through the same hard times with 3.0 | Aug 31 22:44 |
| MinceR | Debian Lenny is 3.5 | Aug 31 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | apparently they want to let KDE 4.x continue settling | Aug 31 22:44 |
| MinceR | i read the next release will only have kde4, though :/ | Aug 31 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | most likely | Aug 31 22:44 |
| MinceR | i don't see why is it such a big problem to have kde3 and kde4 installed side-by-side | Aug 31 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | KDE will probably be 4.4 by the next Debian release | Aug 31 22:44 |
| cubezzz-laptop | didn't like kde 4+ | Aug 31 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: It's tacky and they don't want to support it | Aug 31 22:45 |
| trmanco | 4.4 is due in late January | Aug 31 22:45 |
| cubezzz-laptop | too piggy and too slow | Aug 31 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | but you can install KDE 4 on Debian unofficially | Aug 31 22:45 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: i wonder if kde4 dolphin or konqueror has the usable find functionality i'm used to. | Aug 31 22:45 |
| MinceR | last time i checked it was an unusable, horrid mess. | Aug 31 22:45 |
| trmanco | heh | Aug 31 22:45 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: you can use online communities | Aug 31 22:46 |
| trmanco | MinceR, what do you use as you web browser? | Aug 31 22:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, Mepis 8 is currently based on Debian and using KDE 3.5. Warren is working on Mepis 8.5 which will use KDE 4.3 as default | Aug 31 22:46 |
| MinceR | currently iceweasel | Aug 31 22:46 |
| trmanco | that's gtk :| | Aug 31 22:46 |
| cubezzz-laptop | gnome doesn't seem to have it's own version of klipper nowadays | Aug 31 22:46 |
| MinceR | if i have time to get stow sorted out, i'll probably have ff 3.5 and opera | Aug 31 22:46 |
| MinceR | and i'll give Iron for Linux a try. | Aug 31 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | I use Konqueror on my KDE systems | Aug 31 22:46 |
| trmanco | ah opera is cute | Aug 31 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | as the file browser | Aug 31 22:46 |
| trmanco | (QT) | Aug 31 22:46 |
| MinceR | Qt, not QT | Aug 31 22:46 |
| MinceR | QT is QuickTime. :> | Aug 31 22:46 |
| trmanco | yes | Aug 31 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | (Dolphin is the default, but Konqueror is still selectable in the control panel) | Aug 31 22:47 |
| trmanco | ok sorry | Aug 31 22:47 |
| trmanco | :-P | Aug 31 22:47 |
| MinceR | not even Konqueror has the kde3 find behavior | Aug 31 22:47 |
| trmanco | I kinda kept shift pressed for too long | Aug 31 22:47 |
| MinceR | which puts a find panel on top, instead of in a new window | Aug 31 22:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | midnight commander is also an option | Aug 31 22:47 |
| MinceR | and uses the same icon view for the results instead of a reduced functionality list | Aug 31 22:47 |
| MinceR | midnight commander uses the mouse less effectively | Aug 31 22:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mc | Aug 31 22:47 |
| trmanco | any gecko based Qt browser? | Aug 31 22:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | true | Aug 31 22:48 |
| DaemonFC | trmanco: Nope. | Aug 31 22:48 |
| MinceR | also, the find window kde4 uses is undecorated and hard to dig up if you lose it | Aug 31 22:48 |
| trmanco | webkit? | Aug 31 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | Gecko doesn't make a good rendering engine for projects outside of Firefox | Aug 31 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | even GNOME admits that now | Aug 31 22:49 |
| MinceR | Iron uses WebKit | Aug 31 22:49 |
| trmanco | it works fine in epiphany | Aug 31 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Mandriva 2010 will have Epiphany using Webkit | Aug 31 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | and the extensions set has been ported so that includes adblock and such | Aug 31 22:49 |
| MinceR | Kazehakase had the option for a long time too | Aug 31 22:49 |
| MinceR | i couldn't get it to work though. | Aug 31 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | I've just never liked the thought of having Xulrunner as a system component | Aug 31 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | it reminds me of IE 4 too much | Aug 31 22:50 |
| trmanco | ok | Aug 31 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | where if you remove Firefox, you rip out most of the desktop | Aug 31 22:50 |
| trmanco | so I'm better off using konquerer em khtml | Aug 31 22:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what does Galleon use? | Aug 31 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | Webkit should be the system's HTML renderer because it's so much less resource hungry and it's so much more secure | Aug 31 22:51 |
| trmanco | or Arora | Aug 31 22:51 |
| MinceR | the system should have an HTML renderer as such? | Aug 31 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | that's if you actually *need* an HTML renderer in the desktop | Aug 31 22:51 |
| MinceR | if it has to, why not let the user choose? | Aug 31 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | I'm still not totally sold on that, but at least KDE does it as well as can be expected | Aug 31 22:52 |
| trmanco | Chips_B_Malroy, is uses gecko | Aug 31 22:52 |
| trmanco | last time i've checked | Aug 31 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | Mincer: How about opening Help in whatever the user selects as their web browser? | Aug 31 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | why not? | Aug 31 22:52 |
| MinceR | or at least let the app/toolkit developer choose | Aug 31 22:52 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: that could work nicely | Aug 31 22:52 |
| MinceR | (well, except that you'd have to hack in some functionality into it) | Aug 31 22:53 |
| MinceR | (such as find and glossary) | Aug 31 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | it removes the complications and security hazards from the desktop environment | Aug 31 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | let those be handled by whoever makes the users web browser | Aug 31 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | free up your guys to work on other pieces of the desktop | Aug 31 22:53 |
| MinceR | sometimes an HTML widget will still be needed | Aug 31 22:54 |
| MinceR | for example in the forum app i started developing and then put on hiatus until i redesign it | Aug 31 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | well, it still wouldn't need to be a full web rendering engine would it? | Aug 31 22:54 |
| MinceR | probably not | Aug 31 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | you could make a subset with only the functions related to the Help system | Aug 31 22:54 |
| MinceR | usually some limitations are even necessary (for example in an email client) | Aug 31 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | right, you don't want scripting in email for obvious reasons | Aug 31 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | most clients disable that, but the engine can still do it, so it leaves a potential vulnerability | Aug 31 22:55 |
| DaemonFC | this is why I think if it has to be done, the HTML engine in Webkit would probably be ideal, the Javascript engine is a separate component anyway | Aug 31 22:56 |
| DaemonFC | just don't include that in the system's renderer? | Aug 31 22:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Newspapers completely fucked sooner than you thought: http://bit.ly/qj1U0 down 29% in the last year! | Aug 31 22:56 | |
| DaemonFC | there would be more duplication but less complexity than what they have now anyway, if it makes sense | Aug 31 22:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I bought a sunday paper first time in about 5 years, was $2.50 | Aug 31 22:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its no wonder they are dieing | Aug 31 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | you could write an index system out of CSS and Javascript that any modern browser should understand, so I still like that option | Aug 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | You bought a tree | Aug 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | with ads on it | Aug 31 22:58 |
| MinceR | a dead tree | Aug 31 22:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, just for a 2 for 1 coupon for the buffets | Aug 31 22:58 |
| MinceR | i bought a dead-tree based bimonthly funny paper | Aug 31 22:58 |
| MinceR | it was still funny | Aug 31 22:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lol | Aug 31 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | $2.50 for a newspaper when loading Google News would be free and save you a trip to the vending machine | Aug 31 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | that is why they are dying | Aug 31 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | Rupert Murdoch is now bitching that the BBC is free | Aug 31 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | he's mad because he can't compete with free | Aug 31 22:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, I tried to get the coupon online, believe me | Aug 31 22:59 |
| schestowitz | I bitching about Rupert Murdoch being a b*ch | Aug 31 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | so he'll never sell the public on a paid version of his "news" services | Aug 31 22:59 |
| cubezzz-laptop | all broadcasters are 'free' | Aug 31 23:00 |
| neighborlee | dain I wish OURS were freee | Aug 31 23:00 |
| neighborlee | ;0 | Aug 31 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: At least get your money's worth, open the paper machine and take the coupons out of all of them | Aug 31 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 31 23:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I must be the only one to like Fox news | Aug 31 23:00 |
| neighborlee | in here.I suspect you are LOL | Aug 31 23:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but only because I don't trust any news outlet, and therefore listen or read most of them | Aug 31 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | I used to walk up, put in 50 cents and take like all the morning's copies copies | Aug 31 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 31 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | just to be an asshole | Aug 31 23:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its sometimes better to read both sides | Aug 31 23:01 |
| neighborlee | lol | Aug 31 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | had plenty of grocery coupons though | Aug 31 23:01 |
| neighborlee | fox usually gives you the RIGHT side,,you got that right <grins> | Aug 31 23:01 |
| neighborlee | not right as in opposite of wrong ;)) | Aug 31 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | Fox usually gives you their opinions masquerading as news | Aug 31 23:02 |
| neighborlee | yup | Aug 31 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | with the opening weasel words "Some people say..." | Aug 31 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | it's not journalism, it's Pravda | Aug 31 23:02 |
| neighborlee | I mean take oreilly for starters.what a wonker | Aug 31 23:02 |
| cubezzz-laptop | ideally journalists should be impartial | Aug 31 23:02 |
| neighborlee | who in their right mind thinks HE is THE NEWS ?? | Aug 31 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz-laptop: Some people say that anyway | Aug 31 23:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | neighborlee, yes, but I don't trust CNN either, they cannot even get the weather right | Aug 31 23:02 |
| neighborlee | unashamed, right wing bull pucky is wshat he is | Aug 31 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: SOME people say he is | Aug 31 23:02 |
| neighborlee | I watch msnbc usually | Aug 31 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: According to SOME people, CNN can't be trusted | Aug 31 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 31 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: SOME people say that Keith Olbermann is the antichrist | Aug 31 23:03 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I get all my news from stallman.org | Aug 31 23:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | trust none is my motto | Aug 31 23:03 |
| cubezzz-laptop | j/k | Aug 31 23:03 |
| neighborlee | LOL | Aug 31 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | the phrase "Some people say" should be banned from TV news | Aug 31 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | by law | Aug 31 23:04 |
| cubezzz-laptop | "the news" is usually not that good | Aug 31 23:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The only news that I relied on was from PJ until today | Aug 31 23:04 |
| neighborlee | what happened today that I missed | Aug 31 23:05 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Walter would disapprove of what news has become | Aug 31 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | I usually watch MSNBC though, they make fun of Republicans and I hate Republicans | Aug 31 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | at least they're my kind of biased | Aug 31 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 31 23:05 |
| neighborlee | lol | Aug 31 23:05 |
| neighborlee | well I watch itin part because of madow ;) | Aug 31 23:05 |
| neighborlee | and a few others | Aug 31 23:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, I used to be an Republican | Aug 31 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | I agree with that quote "When the state Democratic Party finds in its wisdom to nominate a yellow dog, I will support the dog, but lower than that, you will not take me" | Aug 31 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 31 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | thus giving rise to the phrase Yellow Dog Democrat | Aug 31 23:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I don't have much taith in either party here to do the right thing. | Aug 31 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | a Yellow Dog Democrat will support even bad candidates the Democrats nominate just to keep the Republicans out | Aug 31 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | that's me | Aug 31 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | believe me, I had to hold my nose to vote for Jill Thompson/Dennis Oxley last year as the state's governor/lt governor, Mitch Daniels was much worse though | Aug 31 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | theres hinting that he may run for president in 2012 | Aug 31 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | I really hope people aren't stupid enough to elect him after what his administration has done to Indiana | Aug 31 23:09 |
| cubezzz-laptop | how about Palin for 2012? :) | Aug 31 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | OK, if it came down to Palin and Daniels, I'd rather have Daniels | Aug 31 23:09 |
| MinceR | depends on which Palin | Aug 31 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | cause he may be a con artist, but he's not a firebrand Christian | Aug 31 23:09 |
| MinceR | i fully support Michael Palin! | Aug 31 23:10 |
| cubezzz-laptop | MIcheal Palin, LOL | Aug 31 23:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, Obama will win a second term unless he really screws up | Aug 31 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | SOME people say he already has | Aug 31 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | and they want YOU to join the SOME people | Aug 31 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 31 23:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | some people will always say that | Aug 31 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | well you know SOME people say the pharmaceutical industry has the right to price gouge | Aug 31 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | \and those would be the people organizing the "grassroots" tea parties | Aug 31 23:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its about hate, getting people to hate the party in power, both sides do it | Aug 31 23:11 |
| *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") | Aug 31 23:11 | |
| DaemonFC | it didn't take any convincing for me to be pissed when in 2000 | Aug 31 23:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it serves no purpose to get mad | Aug 31 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | heh, don't get me wrong, I think we should be calling for Bush's head | Aug 31 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | but it should be us that takes it | Aug 31 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | saves face you know? | Aug 31 23:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | why? | Aug 31 23:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what good would that do? | Aug 31 23:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Outperforms Mac OS X 10.6 (Leopard Snort) http://ping.fm/zAqk7 | Aug 31 23:13 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | I was surprised he got re-elected | Aug 31 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | most of the people in this country were just as much victims of that administration | Aug 31 23:14 |
| *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 31 23:14 | |
| DaemonFC | by letting him go, we've set a bad precedent that we can't be trusted to punish American war criminals | Aug 31 23:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the swift boating got him re-elected Cubezzz | Aug 31 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | while we demand the rest of the world fork over theirs | Aug 31 23:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Well you see DaemonFC why Bush will not be tried? | Aug 31 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | Bush and his former cabinet continue to cash in our credibility every day they go without standing trial | Aug 31 23:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Obama and the Dems will not go there and try Bush | Aug 31 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | less important people are arrested over petty crimes and risk losing 20 years of their life in prison every day | Aug 31 23:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ask yourself why? | Aug 31 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | why should we make an exception for Bush and his cabinet? | Aug 31 23:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its not up to us | Aug 31 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | the Constitution says differently | Aug 31 23:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Top Tips for People Who Abandon Windows for GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/2FLk3 http://ping.fm/IOOV1 | Aug 31 23:16 | |
| DaemonFC | it says that he should be given a fair trial by a jury of peers | Aug 31 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | same as any other suspected criminal | Aug 31 23:17 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Has a US President ever stood trial? | Aug 31 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | no | Aug 31 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't make that right though | Aug 31 23:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, while you are correct, still, its the powers that be that could take Bush to trial, not us, the public, its not going to happen | Aug 31 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | I also believe the US Constitution should be amended so that the president cannot pardon himself or anyone in his administration | Aug 31 23:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Simple reason its not going to happen | Aug 31 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | Congress could override the veto | Aug 31 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | with a two-thirds majority | Aug 31 23:18 |
| cubezzz-laptop | The President pardoning himself definitely seems wrong | Aug 31 23:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | nope | Aug 31 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon | Aug 31 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | right after taking office | Aug 31 23:19 |
| cubezzz-laptop | and lost re-election if I remember correctly | Aug 31 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | you can't tell me that this wasn't arranged | Aug 31 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, he did | Aug 31 23:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Awareness on GNU/Linux Raised by Gujarat Government http://ping.fm/H6FTm | Aug 31 23:19 | |
| DaemonFC | actually, Ford was not elected | Aug 31 23:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, why I still don't like Ford too. Even though he wasn't the worst Pres | Aug 31 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | he was a congressman who replaced Spiro Agnew after Agnew resigned over corruption charges | Aug 31 23:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Aug 31 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | then when Nixon resigned, Ford became president | Aug 31 23:20 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Ford didn't seem _that_ bad | Aug 31 23:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | pardoning is different than trying someone DaemonFC | Aug 31 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | pre-emptive pardoning is also a bad thing | Aug 31 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | which should not be allowed | Aug 31 23:21 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Nixon worse than Bush? :) | Aug 31 23:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Once you start trying former Presidents when the opposing party comes to power, where does it stop? | Aug 31 23:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | niether party so far has done it | Aug 31 23:22 |
| cubezzz-laptop | yeah, the Bush era is over, time to move on | Aug 31 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: So helping each other break the law without consequences is right? | Aug 31 23:22 |
| MinceR | they're all criminals anyway, aren't they? | Aug 31 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | they just watch each others backs? This is acceptable? | Aug 31 23:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Zealand Post Dumped Microsoft Office, Now Tries GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/2BrNf | Aug 31 23:22 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Read the History books, Marus and Sulla ancient Rome, that is where it leads to | Aug 31 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | so it's that or just letting them get away with breaking whatever laws they will | Aug 31 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | flagrantly | Aug 31 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't sound like either is preferable | Aug 31 23:23 |
| MinceR | the people should be able to drive them away | Aug 31 23:24 |
| MinceR | i think that was the old idea | Aug 31 23:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its supposed to be a system of checks and balances, but its badly broken | Aug 31 23:24 |
| cubezzz-laptop | DaemonFC, well there's the two term limit, in Canada the Prime Minister can keep going | Aug 31 23:24 |
| MinceR | but it doesn't work in practice now :/ | Aug 31 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz-laptop: Two term limit brings its own problems | Aug 31 23:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Multi-booting with GNU/Linux Now Web-based Too http://ping.fm/sv5Za | Aug 31 23:24 | |
| DaemonFC | means the second term, they do whatever they want because they can't be re-elected anyway | Aug 31 23:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ask yourself this, which branch of the US gov is not owned by the corporations? | Aug 31 23:25 |
| MinceR | neither? | Aug 31 23:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MinceR=correct | Aug 31 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | the judicial system isn't as corrupt as the legislative or executive | Aug 31 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | but it's still pretty bad | Aug 31 23:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wrong | Aug 31 23:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it the easiest to corrupt | Aug 31 23:26 |
| MinceR | it still needs to be cleansed with fire | Aug 31 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | there have been federal judges that have shot down the worst parts of the PATRIOT Act | Aug 31 23:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DOJ antitrust | Aug 31 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | so I believe it's still not totally corrupt | Aug 31 23:26 |
| MinceR | m$ got out of the antitrust case proven guilty and unpunished | Aug 31 23:26 |
| cubezzz-laptop | yeah, the DOJ was supposed to break up Microsoft | Aug 31 23:26 |
| MinceR | so it's a complete failure | Aug 31 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | after striking the worst provisions, Congress amended the Act to be more in line with the Constitution | Aug 31 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | so the judicial system still provides important oversight of the other branches | Aug 31 23:27 |
| MinceR | when it feels like doing so | Aug 31 23:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFc, I did not say everything was totally corrupt, only real bad | Aug 31 23:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Loads of New Linux Features (Kernel Space) http://ping.fm/ckgu3 | Aug 31 23:27 | |
| MinceR | (probably in the cases nobody considers important enough to throw a truckload of money at them for) | Aug 31 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: When we start having obvious witch hunts and show trials the likes of which go on in China | Aug 31 23:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The US gov is run by the rich | Aug 31 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | I'll lose the rest of my faith in the system | Aug 31 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | right now the justice system is the only thing that hasn't been fully corrupted | Aug 31 23:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but then, most of these same corporations, like MS are multinationals, and also corrupt other countries as well | Aug 31 23:29 |
| MinceR | indeed | Aug 31 23:29 |
| MinceR | and they use the US Government as a vector | Aug 31 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | notice I didn't say it's clean, I said that you're not guaranteed to lose every cause the state charges you with | Aug 31 23:29 |
| MinceR | (ACTA, anyone?) | Aug 31 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | in China, you are always going to lose | Aug 31 23:29 |
| MinceR | (WCT, anyone?) | Aug 31 23:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS only pretends to be a native American company when the EU slaps them around a bit | Aug 31 23:29 |
| cubezzz-laptop | native American? | Aug 31 23:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sorry | Aug 31 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | a native American company? as in they operate on a native American reservation? | Aug 31 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 31 23:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | bad choice of words there | Aug 31 23:30 |
| cubezzz-laptop | no taxes on the RES :) | Aug 31 23:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | OMG, cubezz don't tell MS that, or they will move to the Res | Aug 31 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Aug 31 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | providing good jobs and affordable water and eelctricity? | Aug 31 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | *electricity | Aug 31 23:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KMail Gets Very Nifty with More Plasma http://ping.fm/hpiwl | Aug 31 23:31 | |
| DaemonFC | you should see how some of those people live | Aug 31 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | they're destitute | Aug 31 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | some reservations are like miniature third world countries on the US mainland :P | Aug 31 23:32 |
| cubezzz-laptop | the money doesn't trickle down, it's an old story | Aug 31 23:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Chrome for GNU/Linux Ahead of Windows (in 64-bit Support) http://ping.fm/aEdFn | Aug 31 23:32 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, a lot of them get tired of the shit and leave | Aug 31 23:33 |
| MinceR | nah, it would make more sense for them to claim religion status | Aug 31 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | the "tribe" only exists because a few people get very rich in the business of breaking US laws | Aug 31 23:33 |
| MinceR | they have a lot of backing for that already | Aug 31 23:33 |
| MinceR | and so could crApple | Aug 31 23:33 |
| MinceR | then they could follow in the footsteps of L. Ron Hubbard | Aug 31 23:33 |
| MinceR | (then again, infiltrating the IRS might prove difficult for them...) | Aug 31 23:33 |
| MinceR | but perhaps they could gain tax-exempt status :> | Aug 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | Operation Show White? | Aug 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | is what you're referring to | Aug 31 23:34 |
| MinceR | Snow White | Aug 31 23:34 |
| MinceR | could be | Aug 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | errr | Aug 31 23:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy> I would expect Chrome for Linux to now proceed faster than the windows version, cause this is what Google needs most likely for GoogleOS | Aug 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | Snow White | Aug 31 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | typo | Aug 31 23:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vector Linux 6.0 Light Live CD is Released http://ping.fm/w6gSV | Aug 31 23:34 | |
| MinceR | they also want to attack IE ASAP | Aug 31 23:35 |
| MinceR | and they can do that best on winblows | Aug 31 23:35 |
| MinceR | i guess we'll see what happens | Aug 31 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | Internet Explorer only runs on Windows now | Aug 31 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 31 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | the old UNIX packages still install on Solaris | Aug 31 23:35 |
| MinceR | i'd expect them to have separate teams at least for the platform-specific parts | Aug 31 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | and HP-UX | Aug 31 23:35 |
| MinceR | so the winblows and linux versions might not be competing for resources that much | Aug 31 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | the OS X version was only related to the Windows version of Internet Explorer in that they both had the same name | Aug 31 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | they were very different programs | Aug 31 23:36 |
| MinceR | i've heard they even had different rendering engines | Aug 31 23:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Distributions That Are Good for Entertainment http://ping.fm/j687g | Aug 31 23:36 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they did | Aug 31 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | Trident on Windows, Tasman on the Mac | Aug 31 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | UNIX versions of IE had a subset of Trident, without ActiveX support | Aug 31 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | Tasman was actually very standards compliant for the time | Aug 31 23:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] was lovely to have @laurcowen @tonywhitmore and @daviey at my place for @uupc recording.. @ciemon you were missed :( | Aug 31 23:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Scientific Linux Live CD/DVD 4.8 is Released (Red Hat Clone) http://ping.fm/hSQVu | Aug 31 23:37 | |
| DaemonFC | the IE For UNIX project was also how the Windows NT, 2000, and XP RTM source code leaked | Aug 31 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | not all of it, just the parts that were related to porting IE | Aug 31 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | the company that was contracted to do the porting "MainWin" lost a laptop with that source code on it | Aug 31 23:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Targets #FogComputing and Sub-notebooks http://ping.fm/MAgRd http://ping.fm/RgSXT | Aug 31 23:39 | |
| DaemonFC | anyhow, it didn't look like the source code would be particularly useful for writing malware based on | Aug 31 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | by the time it leaked, there had been so many service packs for Windows 2000 and XP past that snapshot of the code, that it was largely useless to malware writers | Aug 31 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft had already patched the obvious exploits with the latest service packs by the time the source leaked | Aug 31 23:41 |
| MinceR | or was it? DUN DUN DUN! | Aug 31 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | the code released involved XP RTM | Aug 31 23:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sensei Dumps Windows for GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/QsDke | Aug 31 23:41 | |
| DaemonFC | when it leaked, XP was already past SP2 | Aug 31 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | most of the files the source code had leaked for had changed quite a bit by SP2 | Aug 31 23:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Debian Shows Its Muscle http://ping.fm/hAVxg http://ping.fm/bmZf9 | Aug 31 23:42 | |
| DaemonFC | so unless there were some unpatched RTM or maybe SP1 systems out there, the rest of the XP users were fairly safe | Aug 31 23:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Debian Derivative ELive Has New Release http://ping.fm/bUe3T | Aug 31 23:43 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Advice for GNU/Linux (Ubuntu) Users Going to School http://ping.fm/DeBIW | Aug 31 23:45 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kubuntu GNU/Linux Installer Gets Modernised http://ping.fm/3Q5QP | Aug 31 23:48 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Samsung Confirmed to Have Linux Phones, Details Leaked http://ping.fm/z2dMD | Aug 31 23:50 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: More astroturfers | Aug 31 23:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux on Sub-notebooks Receives Splendid Review (from LJ) http://ping.fm/yXwhV | Aug 31 23:54 | |
| DaemonFC | Radian6 has indexed my complaints about Comcast | Aug 31 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | http://conversation.radian6.com/AiHAlerts/landing.php?userKey=4b16c8fc9ce220b0cef7a5ec6101c8d0&blogPostId=1688426188&topicFilterIds=53604&clientId=4&link=http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/comcast-internet-service-down-for-over-nine-hours-last-night/ | Aug 31 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.radian6.com/cms/home | Aug 31 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | "By enhancing the richness of social media metrics atop web analytics data, brands can see the impact of social media content on their own website traffic, conversions, and sales." | Aug 31 23:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Interview with Larry Augustin, Now FOSS CRM CEO http://ping.fm/KbHUG | Aug 31 23:57 | |
| *neighborlee has quit ("Leaving") | Aug 31 23:59 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] VMukti and China Mobile Learn to Do it the Free Software Way http://ping.fm/KjwHR http://ping.fm/DbYDK | Aug 31 23:59 | |
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