| Will | At that price, 9 out of 10 people will just buy MS Office, and the 10th will buy MS Office and then maybe download OpenOffice later. | Sep 09 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Foxconn Prepares Microsoft's and Intel's Worst Nightmare -- Wintel-Free Sub-£100 PC http://ping.fm/x9DCC | Sep 09 00:03 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hands-on Review of the ARM-based Ubuntu PC from Sharp http://ping.fm/6cymH | Sep 09 00:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] job i waited two weeks on has indeed evaporated. I can't tell you just how pleased I am at this moment. | Sep 09 00:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why the Linux-powered Frankencamera is Good News for Open Source Hardware http://ping.fm/wDRQj | Sep 09 00:14 | |
| sebsebseb | ok just caught up with the interesting convo that was going on here | Sep 09 00:15 |
| sebsebseb | I wanted to quote/copyin a few things and comment | Sep 09 00:15 |
| sebsebseb | want not wanted above | Sep 09 00:15 |
| sebsebseb | [21:56] <MinceR> also, have fun with your full-screen streamed video in flash | Sep 09 00:15 |
| sebsebseb | [21:57] <MinceR> with 5 fps at 100% CPU load on each core | Sep 09 00:15 |
| sebsebseb | [21:57] <MinceR> it's the state of the art! | Sep 09 00:15 |
| sebsebseb | heh yeah I have had this problem in Ubuntu, Firefox with Flash and a few tabs or whatever, and the computer becomes barely useable | Sep 09 00:16 |
| sebsebseb | [22:03] <_Hicham_> everybody is working toward a better Web | Sep 09 00:16 |
| sebsebseb | Oh yeah? | Sep 09 00:16 |
| sebsebseb | well no HTML 5 <audio> and <video> in Safari I heard :( | Sep 09 00:16 |
| MinceR | safari is malware, not a web browser | Sep 09 00:17 |
| sebsebseb | and they say Internet Explorer 8 has better web standards support, but obviously not enough for the web to become much better, when it comes the most used browser, I assume it will become the most used | Sep 09 00:17 |
| MinceR | also, nokia wants <audio> and <video> to die because it doesn't push DRM enough for them | Sep 09 00:17 |
| MinceR | oops | Sep 09 00:17 |
| MinceR | i mean crApple wants that | Sep 09 00:17 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: Safari is a malware? | Sep 09 00:17 |
| MinceR | but nokia probably still wants the same | Sep 09 00:17 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: yes, ever since hypeTunes silently pushed it as an "update" | Sep 09 00:18 |
| MinceR | that was enabled by default | Sep 09 00:18 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: oh bunddled software ah yes | Sep 09 00:18 |
| ThistleWeb | I believe Safari either is or will be html5 compliant, the thing they objected to was ogg, so they can use their own formats with the <video> and <audio>tags | Sep 09 00:18 |
| sebsebseb | you install a program, but you also get others | Sep 09 00:18 |
| MinceR | installing programs without the user's approval is specific to malware. | Sep 09 00:18 |
| MinceR | ThistleWeb: so they are only willing to support patent-encumbered formats? | Sep 09 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no safari on linux | Sep 09 00:18 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: well if they are doing it on Windows, I guess that's better than loads of users, only having Internet Explorer | Sep 09 00:19 |
| MinceR | cupertino needs a healthy load of napalm too | Sep 09 00:19 |
| ThistleWeb | MinceR: I believe it's partly that, partly their OWN formats, and only those capable of DRM | Sep 09 00:19 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: ,but will they use Safari in that case is the thing | Sep 09 00:19 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: pushing it as malware is problematic | Sep 09 00:19 |
| sebsebseb | pretty much any browser is better than IE, not including those fake browsers of course, yeah the IE shells | Sep 09 00:19 |
| ThistleWeb | nokia objected to ogg as they believed it was patent encumbered | Sep 09 00:19 |
| MinceR | and eroding the portability of free formats is not acceptable | Sep 09 00:20 |
| sebsebseb | heh I guess in a way even Lynx or Links are better than IE :D | Sep 09 00:20 |
| ThistleWeb | they all agreed on having the tags, just not the format used in them | Sep 09 00:20 |
| MinceR | ThistleWeb: if they said that, they were lying | Sep 09 00:20 |
| sebsebseb | text only browsers can also be quite fun | Sep 09 00:20 |
| ThistleWeb | MinceR: you're speaking to the choir, I know that | Sep 09 00:20 |
| MinceR | remember that nokia also basically teld the FLOSS community that they should cater to nokia's wishes for DRM support | Sep 09 00:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why the EU is Right is Blocking Oracle's Takeover of MySQL http://ping.fm/eu8pt http://ping.fm/EfoRm | Sep 09 00:20 | |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR thusnelda new codec seems very ahead | Sep 09 00:20 |
| MinceR | i haven't heard of that one | Sep 09 00:21 |
| _Hicham_ | it is getting a lot of R&D | Sep 09 00:21 |
| MinceR | what is it and who are making it? | Sep 09 00:21 |
| sebsebseb | [22:08] <MinceR> originally the idea was that the business that makes better products will prosper | Sep 09 00:21 |
| sebsebseb | [22:08] <MinceR> better products survive, and our lives get better | Sep 09 00:21 |
| _Hicham_ | really ? | Sep 09 00:21 |
| sebsebseb | [22:08] <MinceR> but that's not what's happening | Sep 09 00:21 |
| MinceR | Ogg? | Sep 09 00:21 |
| MinceR | (Xiph) | Sep 09 00:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Yes | Sep 09 00:21 |
| sebsebseb | well it seems to me that most of the best software today is opensource/freesoftware, and well those don't tend to get made by commercial companies | Sep 09 00:21 |
| sebsebseb | rather they get made by a community of volunters from all over the world | Sep 09 00:21 |
| _Hicham_ | a new implementation of Theora | Sep 09 00:21 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 09 00:21 |
| sebsebseb | ,but technology is meant to make life easier isn't it? well Microsoft haven't made my life easier | Sep 09 00:22 |
| sebsebseb | in fact certain problems in my life, are really Microsoft's fault | Sep 09 00:22 |
| _Hicham_ | the video about MS vs FOSS that schestowitz posted the link to was hilarious | Sep 09 00:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FogComputing Barriers Fought Against by GNU/Linux Leader, #P2P http://ping.fm/ovPEx http://ping.fm/zSJGW | Sep 09 00:22 | |
| MinceR | most of the problems with IT are m$'s fault | Sep 09 00:22 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: indeed | Sep 09 00:22 |
| _Hicham_ | MS made surfing the Web harder | Sep 09 00:22 |
| MinceR | some of the rest are crApple's or adobe/macromedia's fault | Sep 09 00:23 |
| sebsebseb | indeed | Sep 09 00:23 |
| _Hicham_ | When I first installed Linux, first thing I was looking for was compatibility with Windows programs | Sep 09 00:24 |
| _Hicham_ | now I don't even have wine installed | Sep 09 00:24 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: They made surfing the web harder, how? | Sep 09 00:24 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : by making writing plugins to IE harder | Sep 09 00:24 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: they've harmed web standards heavily | Sep 09 00:24 |
| _goblin | _Hicham_: Its only the demoscene I keep Wine on my system for.... | Sep 09 00:24 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: indeed | Sep 09 00:24 |
| sebsebseb | exactly | Sep 09 00:24 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: they've convinced people to write m$-html and m$-css and m$-jscript instead | Sep 09 00:25 |
| sebsebseb | since they don't take the web standards seriosuly enough | Sep 09 00:25 |
| sebsebseb | the web sucks basicalley | Sep 09 00:25 |
| sebsebseb | of course the average computer user, has no idea | Sep 09 00:25 |
| ThistleWeb | not only harder, but made sure the waters are full of predators, many on autopilot | Sep 09 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | writing IE plugins required that you have MS Visual Studio Pro | Sep 09 00:25 |
| MinceR | macromedia/adobe convinced them to embed massive amounts of flash into that m$-html mess | Sep 09 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | It is still required | Sep 09 00:25 |
| MinceR | m$ also tried to push RadioActiveX but thankfully that failed | Sep 09 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why there is not as much plugins for IE | Sep 09 00:25 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: Radio???? | Sep 09 00:25 |
| _Hicham_ | only big companies write IE plugins | Sep 09 00:26 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: i'm mocking ActiveX | Sep 09 00:26 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: it deserves it. | Sep 09 00:26 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: yeah I was wondering what you meant by Radio, and I know that Activex can be the reason that malware gets onto a Windows install, well and IE of course | Sep 09 00:26 |
| MinceR | and outlook | Sep 09 00:26 |
| MinceR | and a lot more things | Sep 09 00:27 |
| sebsebseb | yep | Sep 09 00:27 |
| sebsebseb | [22:09] <wallclimber> I think one reason why microsoft was able to get the hold it did was because ordinary people had nothing prior to compare it to. | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | [22:10] <MinceR> ordinary people lost control before they could get their bearings | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | [22:10] <wallclimber> they had nothing to look at to see if it was well done, or not | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | [22:10] <MinceR> OEM agreements sprang up | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | [22:10] <MinceR> before people knew what was happening, m$ was already making their products subtly incompatible with those of competitors | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | [22:10] <MinceR> (mainly me$$y-do$) | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | well yeah, Windows is the first OS for many people | Sep 09 00:28 |
| sebsebseb | and before the PC, many people didn't have a computer | Sep 09 00:28 |
| ThistleWeb | aka My First Virus | Sep 09 00:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kofi Annan Seemingly Inspired by Free Software http://ping.fm/gjak7 | Sep 09 00:28 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why Google Should Support Ogg and Stop Making up Excuses http://ping.fm/cvq4W | Sep 09 00:28 | |
| sebsebseb | and yes Microsoft products can be known to spread like a virus | Sep 09 00:28 |
| MinceR | nah | Sep 09 00:29 |
| ThistleWeb | "I must be really good at this computery thing, I didn't even have to press a button to get infected" | Sep 09 00:29 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: nah? | Sep 09 00:29 |
| MinceR | viruses are a lot more efficient and stuff | Sep 09 00:29 |
| MinceR | there's a quote about this, i'll see if i can find it | Sep 09 00:29 |
| MinceR | http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-115 | Sep 09 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | [22:11] <wallclimber> when windows was new, everyone thought it would get better, so they cut microsoft a lot of slack | Sep 09 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | Well at the time Windows 3.1 was seen as being a pretty good OS, wasn't it? | Sep 09 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | Windows 95 was | Sep 09 00:30 |
| sebsebseb | that's for sure | Sep 09 00:30 |
| Will | Since it looks like more people are active now, I'll repeat a question from earlier: How do you go about trying to get someone to try OpenOffice when MS dumps Office 2007 for $20 or less? | Sep 09 00:31 |
| MinceR | 3.1 wasn't an OS | Sep 09 00:31 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: GUI for DOS? | Sep 09 00:31 |
| MinceR | yes | Sep 09 00:31 |
| sebsebseb | oh ok | Sep 09 00:31 |
| sebsebseb | yeah and MS Bob for Windows 95, and I think 3.1 as well? | Sep 09 00:31 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : for how much have u used Windows | Sep 09 00:31 |
| MinceR | Will: one idea i can think of is bundling it with GNU/Linux, or preinstalling it | Sep 09 00:31 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Sep 09 00:31 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: didn't count, probably more than 10 years | Sep 09 00:31 |
| Will | sebsebseb: I really think MS software used to be half-decent for the time, circa 10 years ago | Sep 09 00:32 |
| *GoodStudent (n=GoodStud@41.252.37.81) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 00:32 | |
| GoodStudent | Nokia N97 - what software other than PC Suite can I use to access and backup my "vanished" contact list? | Sep 09 00:32 |
| sebsebseb | Will: I agree in the 90's MS was alright really | Sep 09 00:32 |
| sebsebseb | Will: ,but then get to 2000 and well you know | Sep 09 00:32 |
| _Hicham_ | MS was never right | Sep 09 00:33 |
| MinceR | GoodStudent: dunno, but have you tried wammu/gammu? | Sep 09 00:33 |
| _Hicham_ | we were slaves to MS | Sep 09 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: indeed | Sep 09 00:33 |
| *Xarver (n=kenneth@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 00:33 | |
| MinceR | also i faintly remember reading some sync stuff for linux that relied on a small symbian app being installed on the phone | Sep 09 00:33 |
| MinceR | i don't remember any half-decent m$ software | Sep 09 00:33 |
| sebsebseb | many people had/have to start with Windows, because they were/are young, and so didn't have their own computer yet | Sep 09 00:34 |
| sebsebseb | plus most poeple don't know about Linux | Sep 09 00:34 |
| sebsebseb | that use computers | Sep 09 00:34 |
| Will | What was out there to compare to Win95/98? | Sep 09 00:34 |
| MinceR | most people didn't know about OS-es at all | Sep 09 00:34 |
| GoodStudent | MinceR: what are those? | Sep 09 00:34 |
| MinceR | Will: OS/2 Warp 4 | Sep 09 00:34 |
| GoodStudent | thired parties softwares? | Sep 09 00:35 |
| MinceR | GoodStudent: yes | Sep 09 00:35 |
| sebsebseb | if you got to start on a family computer and your parants are using Windows, well you got to start with that, plus if school are using it | Sep 09 00:35 |
| Will | I've been thinking a little about the lock in MS basically ambushed the whole world with. I'm not sure that could have worked with any other product. Software was new, and most importantly, just intangible data. | Sep 09 00:36 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of people know about Linux and use Windows | Sep 09 00:36 |
| MinceR | Will: hm, OS/2 3.0 was already "Warp" so that could count too | Sep 09 00:36 |
| GoodStudent | thank you MinceR | Sep 09 00:36 |
| Will | Data in which every part was man-made. | Sep 09 00:36 |
| sebsebseb | also Linux was really only for geeks untill like 2000? | Sep 09 00:36 |
| MinceR | GoodStudent: np | Sep 09 00:36 |
| GoodStudent | i hope it'll works ... otherwise i'm dead meat | Sep 09 00:36 |
| sebsebseb | geeks and clever companies yeah | Sep 09 00:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Microsoft Bankrolled Racketeering (Nathan Myhrvold) http://ping.fm/osle6 | Sep 09 00:36 | |
| sebsebseb | go back to 1995 what was there to compete with Windows 95? | Sep 09 00:36 |
| Will | You couldn't build cars that only run on certain highways. | Sep 09 00:37 |
| sebsebseb | that loads of people knew about | Sep 09 00:37 |
| sebsebseb | that used a computer or were going to use one | Sep 09 00:37 |
| sebsebseb | nothing at all, except for Apple | Sep 09 00:37 |
| sebsebseb | right? | Sep 09 00:37 |
| ThistleWeb | amiga? | Sep 09 00:37 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: there was OS/2, like i said before :> | Sep 09 00:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSF Opposes Google's Virtual Ownership of Books http://ping.fm/8Cgv5 | Sep 09 00:37 | |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: yeah, but loads of people didn't know about OS/2 ? | Sep 09 00:37 |
| MinceR | afaik it was better designed and better made than windblows | Sep 09 00:37 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : there was Debian, Redhat, Slackware in 95 | Sep 09 00:37 |
| MinceR | but still it was just protected-mode DOS | Sep 09 00:38 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: yeah, but Debian, Redhat, and Slackware, were only really for geeks at the time? | Sep 09 00:38 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: not many knew about it | Sep 09 00:38 |
| MinceR | even less knew about GNU/Linux | Sep 09 00:38 |
| Will | Of course, MS also sabotaged OS/2 | Sep 09 00:38 |
| _Hicham_ | so everybody was an MS shill then | Sep 09 00:38 |
| MinceR | computers in general were only really for geeks and businesses who could afford to support themselves, weren't they? | Sep 09 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | I guess a computer was a kind of luxary for many in the early 90's and even dial up | Sep 09 00:39 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: how did you jump to that conclusion? | Sep 09 00:39 |
| Will | remember the MS demo app for OS/2? Written specifically to crash? | Sep 09 00:39 |
| MinceR | i don't remember | Sep 09 00:39 |
| ThistleWeb | pre 2000 could you get a PC for less than £1000? | Sep 09 00:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz trouble is the chinese "competitors" to IE are still mshtml.dll so not actually competition. | Sep 09 00:39 | |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : no | Sep 09 00:39 |
| sebsebseb | exactly they were quite pricey to begin with as well | Sep 09 00:40 |
| _Hicham_ | Computer were only for rich people | Sep 09 00:40 |
| ThistleWeb | rich people who often wouldnt risk breaking it by truing to install a different OS | Sep 09 00:40 |
| ThistleWeb | given that installing an OS wasn't easy then | Sep 09 00:40 |
| ThistleWeb | certainly not easy compared to modern OS's | Sep 09 00:41 |
| sebsebseb | [22:11] <wallclimber> when windows was new, everyone thought it would get better, so they cut microsoft a lot of slack | Sep 09 00:41 |
| MinceR | according to WP, OS/2's design was pretty crappy too | Sep 09 00:41 |
| sebsebseb | I guess so, plus other stuff was on it's way out, the BBC, the Achorn, etc | Sep 09 00:41 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: rich people could afford to use computers as desk ornaments :> | Sep 09 00:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft's anti-Linux 'Training' Gaffe Used to Train People to Dislike Microsoft http://ping.fm/tP1N3 | Sep 09 00:41 | |
| MinceR | i guess that's what crApple is for | Sep 09 00:41 |
| MinceR | or rather than desk ornaments, more importantly status symbols | Sep 09 00:42 |
| sebsebseb | Windows was a good choice in the early 90's | Sep 09 00:42 |
| sebsebseb | ? | Sep 09 00:42 |
| sebsebseb | sounds like it | Sep 09 00:42 |
| sebsebseb | and even in the late 90's | Sep 09 00:42 |
| MinceR | it was one of the few choices on PCs | Sep 09 00:42 |
| MinceR | and most of those choices were crap, including windblows | Sep 09 00:42 |
| trmanco | lol | Sep 09 00:43 |
| trmanco | dos was probably the best choice | Sep 09 00:43 |
| trmanco | I still remember 3.11 | Sep 09 00:43 |
| sebsebseb | What about Mac OS 9 or whatever it was? | Sep 09 00:43 |
| _Hicham_ | Windows is still dominating | Sep 09 00:43 |
| MinceR | i doubt there was macos 9 back then | Sep 09 00:43 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: ,because of computer ignorance, and them gaining most of the desktop market in the 90's | Sep 09 00:43 |
| trmanco | we would be left at a command prompt and had to start the windows manually | Sep 09 00:43 |
| MinceR | macos "classic" always sucked anyway | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | it never even got preemptive multitasking | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | something the sinclair QL got pretty early :> | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | even windblows got some form of it | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | crApple had to steal BSD and Mach to do it | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | and what multitasking they did have was a horribly ugly hack, too | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | it started out as MultiFinder | Sep 09 00:44 |
| MinceR | and it was the reason why all windows of the same app are raised at the same time even in osx | Sep 09 00:45 |
| sebsebseb | I did a quote and didn't get anyones reply to that, but I did my comment, that was a little while ago | Sep 09 00:45 |
| cubezzz | in the early 90's there was still Amiga | Sep 09 00:45 |
| ThistleWeb | for a sec I thought that was MuttFinder, which for some reason made me think of a dating service for ugly peeps | Sep 09 00:45 |
| MinceR | there was amiga, about which i knew almost nothing. :) | Sep 09 00:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Microsoft's much-hyped Hyper-V drivers in Linux 2.6.32 but likely *not* 2.6.33: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/884983 | Sep 09 00:45 | |
| MinceR | ThistleWeb: maybe that's what the crApple cult is? | Sep 09 00:46 |
| *zlg (i=8fee69cc@gateway/web/freenode/x-emkzrfiblxfmxwzj) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 00:46 | |
| cubezzz | there seems to be mono on Fedora 10, yes? | Sep 09 00:46 |
| cubezzz | I don't remember installing it | Sep 09 00:46 |
| sebsebseb | [23:50] <sebsebseb> [22:11] <wallclimber> when windows was new, everyone thought it would get better, so they cut microsoft a lot of slack | Sep 09 00:46 |
| ThistleWeb | cubezzz: I believe Fedora is a mono-free zone by default | Sep 09 00:46 |
| sebsebseb | [23:50] <sebsebseb> I guess so, plus other stuff was on it's way out, the BBC, the Achorn, etc | Sep 09 00:46 |
| MinceR | Acorn | Sep 09 00:46 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: yes Acorn | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 11 has mono | Sep 09 00:47 |
| MinceR | they even invented the panel, didn't they? :) | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | because of Tomboy | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 12 is mono free | Sep 09 00:47 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I heard they are going to remove MOno | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _goblin | Mint is infested.... | Sep 09 00:47 |
| cubezzz | _Hicham_, yeah I have Tomboy on here | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Gnote looks great | Sep 09 00:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bartzmer Does Not Trust Yahoo! Even Before Selling to Ballmer http://ping.fm/oC1G6 And this is who they appointed as CEO??? | Sep 09 00:47 | |
| MinceR | at least i don't know any earlier appearance of the panel than Arthur | Sep 09 00:47 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu seems to like Mono, since F-Spot and Tomboy | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _goblin | even down to Moonlight. | Sep 09 00:47 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : r u on Fedora ? | Sep 09 00:47 |
| cubezzz | yes | Sep 09 00:47 |
| MinceR | (unless we count the 'exposed desktop area' of windblows 1.0 which could only hold icons of minimized apps as a 'panel') | Sep 09 00:48 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: Fedora 11 woudn't like my partitions, I got an error when I tried to install, it said it was probably a bug | Sep 09 00:48 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: I tried to do a custom install with it keeping most of my partitions | Sep 09 00:48 |
| sebsebseb | heh and I read Fedora 11 was meant to have loads of the installer bugs fixed | Sep 09 00:48 |
| sebsebseb | later on | Sep 09 00:48 |
| Will | _goblin: I've known about Mint and mono, but I still refer new Linux users to it. | Sep 09 00:48 |
| cubezzz | reading about Tomboy now | Sep 09 00:48 |
| sebsebseb | there's an alternative to Tomboy that doesn't use Mono | Sep 09 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : did u download Fedora 11 final ? | Sep 09 00:49 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: yes | Sep 09 00:49 |
| sebsebseb | and burnt to DVD and got the error | Sep 09 00:49 |
| cubezzz | I sure don't remember installing Tomboy though | Sep 09 00:49 |
| sebsebseb | I even tried a magazine DVD with Fedora 11 on it later on, and same thing | Sep 09 00:49 |
| sebsebseb | and I thought I would get the same error | Sep 09 00:49 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : what was the error ? | Sep 09 00:49 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: didn't write it down | Sep 09 00:50 |
| Will | I don't want new users to be the slightest bit unsettled, and Mint goes beyond Ubuntu to preinstall things like codecs and flash | Sep 09 00:50 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : u should have filed a bug | Sep 09 00:50 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I think I have seen you around in another channal? | Sep 09 00:50 |
| ThistleWeb | Mint is also what I recommend for new users | Sep 09 00:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard indeed | Sep 09 00:50 | |
| sebsebseb | bug reports could have done, but I guess screw Fedora 11, if it won't let me install it | Sep 09 00:50 |
| ThistleWeb | mint xfce is glorious | Sep 09 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : I go to other channels occasionally | Sep 09 00:51 |
| cubezzz | Tomboy.exe hmmm | Sep 09 00:51 |
| trmanco | lol | Sep 09 00:51 |
| Will | I say that because some of the people I've shown Mint to are the kind that would have a panic attack if someone replaced their blue e with Firefox. They literally wouldn't be able to get on the internet after that. | Sep 09 00:51 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I did try to get some help with the Fedora issue in their channal, but no luck | Sep 09 00:51 |
| cubezzz | Tomboy.exe is a MS WIndows executable | Sep 09 00:51 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : linked to MS dll | Sep 09 00:52 |
| _Hicham_ | those dlls call the mono runtime | Sep 09 00:52 |
| ThistleWeb | why would an exe be in a linux distro by default? | Sep 09 00:52 |
| sebsebseb | at the moment I am running well what should have been Karmic Alpha 5 after doing the updates for alpha 4, but I guess that's now how it works when alpha, since I don't for example have this new log in screen that I heard about | Sep 09 00:52 |
| sebsebseb | ,but yeah alpha = bugs and that | Sep 09 00:52 |
| sebsebseb | not how above | Sep 09 00:53 |
| _Hicham_ | too bad that u missed Fedora 11 | Sep 09 00:53 |
| *sebsebseb nearly left Ubuntu, because of their stupid edited FUSA (Fast User Account Switcher), which resulted in them removing shutdown and logout from the system menu, where it's meant to be | Sep 09 00:54 | |
| sebsebseb | apparantly there may be a way to add that back by editing gconf or something, but I don't know | Sep 09 00:54 |
| Will | sebsebseb: I haven't even upgraded that far yet. | Sep 09 00:54 |
| sebsebseb | I mean only way to get it back would be to remove fusa otherwise, but really I want both things like Ubuntu 8.10 | Sep 09 00:54 |
| sebsebseb | Will: what are you using? | Sep 09 00:54 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I didn't miss out | Sep 09 00:54 |
| Will | 8.04 LTS. | Sep 09 00:54 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I vm'd it | Sep 09 00:54 |
| Will | I just never got around to updating. | Sep 09 00:55 |
| cubezzz | is Tomboy open source? | Sep 09 00:55 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: and that, plus even booted a DVD from a magazine that had Fedora 11 on it, later on | Sep 09 00:55 |
| _Hicham_ | did it work on the vm ? | Sep 09 00:55 |
| sebsebseb | Will: well 8.10 is a nice release, unless Internet won't work on it, that's the other computer | Sep 09 00:55 |
| sebsebseb | Will: 9.04 is a not that good release | Sep 09 00:55 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: yes | Sep 09 00:56 |
| Will | sebsebseb: And I kinda want to see what it is like to stay on an LTS, since that's the way I'd have to sell it to corporate people. | Sep 09 00:56 |
| *GoodStudent (n=GoodStud@41.252.37.81) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 09 00:56 | |
| sebsebseb | Will: well no Ext4 for you then | Sep 09 00:56 |
| sebsebseb | Ext4 is a bit hmm in 9.04, because of the kernel they have, 9.10 will use by default | Sep 09 00:56 |
| sebsebseb | and 10.04 is the next LTS and that will have by default | Sep 09 00:56 |
| cubezzz | ok, yum remove tomboy then until I know what the score is | Sep 09 00:57 |
| Will | There are things Ubuntu could do better about making certain key parts of the LTS release not get so stale over time (Firefox, OpenOffice, etc) | Sep 09 00:57 |
| sebsebseb | Will: indeed they only do security updates | Sep 09 00:57 |
| Will | I just updated them manually, but not everyone will be able to do that. | Sep 09 00:57 |
| _Hicham_ | they can't update those packages | Sep 09 00:57 |
| sebsebseb | maybe jono will see this now, now that I highlited him, he works for Canonical | Sep 09 00:57 |
| _Hicham_ | otherwise, it won't be an LTS | Sep 09 00:57 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: maybe he has highlighting disabled | Sep 09 00:58 |
| MinceR | or he isn't watching | Sep 09 00:58 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : u have to recompile FUSA | Sep 09 00:58 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: yep or that | Sep 09 00:58 |
| *jono reads | Sep 09 00:58 | |
| Will | Hicham: understood, and by default I don't think they should. But they could also point to a central cluster of PPAs or something like that for people that want to upgrade apps while staying on an LTS. | Sep 09 00:58 |
| _Hicham_ | there are lots of PPAs Will | Sep 09 00:59 |
| _Hicham_ | u can get anything u want from PPAs | Sep 09 00:59 |
| ThistleWeb | one confusing part I've seen with ubuntu ppa's is that there;s often several of them for the same app, so you don;t know which to use | Sep 09 00:59 |
| Will | And my sources.conf file shows it | Sep 09 00:59 |
| ThistleWeb | VLC for one | Sep 09 00:59 |
| _Hicham_ | it depends on packagers | Sep 09 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | and their reputation | Sep 09 01:00 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: recompile FUSA??? | Sep 09 01:00 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : yes, without the patches | Sep 09 01:00 |
| Will | sebsebseb: I've been waiting for ext4 to settle out for a release or two, but I've looking forward to it. | Sep 09 01:01 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: so that's what I would have to do on 9.10, to have like 8.10, system menu, and fusa | Sep 09 01:01 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: for logout and shutdown | Sep 09 01:01 |
| Will | sebsebseb: why do you say 9.04 is not good? | Sep 09 01:01 |
| _Hicham_ | u have to recompile FUSA and probably gnome-panel | Sep 09 01:02 |
| sebsebseb | Will: ,because Ext4 isn't done properly in it, what's new let's see, KDE 4.2, this fusa thing I am on about in Gnome, a black log in screen that I don't like, the background changer effect in Gnome :) and you can put like colour at the top and bottom if a background isn't big enough, again a Gnome feature | Sep 09 01:02 |
| sebsebseb | Will: did I miss something, not as such, | Sep 09 01:03 |
| sebsebseb | it will change here and there under the hood as well of course | Sep 09 01:03 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I am more interested in end user features :) | Sep 09 01:03 |
| Will | Hicham: about the PPAs, they are there and they mostly work. But if you don't know about them, you might not find out. And you have to go hunting for them, which is sometimes it or miss. | Sep 09 01:03 |
| *schestowitz adds ThistleWeb to Twitter aggregator for BN IRC | Sep 09 01:03 | |
| sebsebseb | Will: oh yeah and the amount of people that want Firefox 3.5 in 9.04 | Sep 09 01:04 |
| ThistleWeb | does that mean my tweets will appear here? | Sep 09 01:04 |
| sebsebseb | thing is since there security updates only system | Sep 09 01:04 |
| sebsebseb | Will: they don't just provide the proper Firefox 3.5, instead they got a shiretoko which is rather simaller to the final, but it has the development logo | Sep 09 01:04 |
| sebsebseb | and newbies tend to want the proepr Firefox branding and all that for sure | Sep 09 01:04 |
| Will | sebsebseb: I used Ubuntuzilla to update to 3.5 on 8.04 | Sep 09 01:05 |
| sebsebseb | Will: to be honest this PPA system is a bit of a joke really, surely it would be better if for major packages, they had updates from the repo, that weren't just security updates | Sep 09 01:05 |
| sebsebseb | so yeah Firefox, Open Office, that kind of thing | Sep 09 01:05 |
| sebsebseb | with 9.04 it's Firefox 3.5 that many people want, with 8.10 it was Open Office 3 | Sep 09 01:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz the myhrvold story is now on slashdot front page http://is.gd/336lI | Sep 09 01:06 | |
| sebsebseb | Will: also I have read that really ppa's should normalley be recommended to experienced users, because things can sometimes go wrong as a result of them | Sep 09 01:06 |
| ThistleWeb | it'd be nice to somehow set the ppa's to be standby setups, where peeps could use a newer ppa version of an app until it got to that point in the normal repos, at which point it'd switch over | Sep 09 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is always missing a major upstream update | Sep 09 01:07 |
| ThistleWeb | they're a good idea on the whole | Sep 09 01:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Two slashdot front page stories in a day! http://is.gd/336lI http://is.gd/336sI the latter slashdotted NotN, which got 35,000 hits so far | Sep 09 01:07 | |
| Will | It's release cycles aren't quite in sync with OpenOffice, etc. some times. (most times) | Sep 09 01:07 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : do u know how to recompile packages ? | Sep 09 01:07 |
| Will | sebsebseb: here's the thing. I agree with only security updates by default for LTS. Because that's taking the Debian stable "rock-solid" approach. New features mean new potential bugs. | Sep 09 01:07 |
| sebsebseb | jono: Construcitve negative Ubuntu feedback above, maybe you can help get something done about some of it as well :) | Sep 09 01:08 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: thats because you're trusting your system to another user and their skills, integrity etc rather than the official team | Sep 09 01:08 |
| Will | But, I also think there should be the option to upgrade the big stuff. | Sep 09 01:08 |
| jono | sebsebseb, can you summarize the issue to me? | Sep 09 01:08 |
| sebsebseb | jono: Which issue? | Sep 09 01:08 |
| Will | jono: are you an ubuntu dev? | Sep 09 01:08 |
| jono | I don't understand what you are asking from me | Sep 09 01:09 |
| ThistleWeb | jono is My Community with Ubuntu | Sep 09 01:09 |
| jono | I am the Ubuntu Community Manager | Sep 09 01:09 |
| ThistleWeb | Mr* | Sep 09 01:09 |
| ThistleWeb | and a thoroughly nice bloke | Sep 09 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | great that to have u here jono | Sep 09 01:09 |
| Will | jono: well, we were talking a little about the PPA system with some ideas. Is that what you mean? | Sep 09 01:09 |
| jono | thanks ThistleWeb _Hicham_ :-) | Sep 09 01:10 |
| ThistleWeb | when he's not growling into a mic* ;) | Sep 09 01:10 |
| jono | ThistleWeb, hehe | Sep 09 01:10 |
| jono | what about PPAs? | Sep 09 01:10 |
| trmanco | ppa's are great | Sep 09 01:10 |
| sebsebseb | jono: Oh I guess I am not really asking anything as such, was just saying why I think 9.04 is a bit of a bad release, and how I think it would be better if major stuff got updated in the repo such as Firefox, and Open Office and such, rather than the use a ppa for later version thing, because of security updates only, or in the case of 9.04 for Firefox get Shiretoko | Sep 09 01:10 |
| Will | jono: Well, here's my take | Sep 09 01:10 |
| schestowitz | "Re: Ubuntu Forums compromised?" | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > Hi, I've been reading the BoycottNovell site and find it very | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > interesting. I've been using Ubuntu and hanging round the Ubuntu Forums | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > since April 2008, never used FOSS before that. In the past six months or | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > so I've noticed a change in the tone and the types of comments I see in | Sep 09 01:11 |
| trmanco | SRU doesn't allow stuff like that to happen I think | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > the Community Cafe <http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=11>. | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > There's been a lot more people praising Windows (especially Vista 7) and | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > some people getting very prickly and aggressive at any posts that | Sep 09 01:11 |
| sebsebseb | jono: security updates only is good for most packages, but for major stuff, people tend to want the latest, latest Firefox, latest Open Office etc, and in Windows oh they can have it really easiley | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > criticise Windows. That's not so bad, but the worrying thing is some of | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > them identify themselves as "Ubuntu Forums Staff". This guy in | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > particular, Hymn to Life, seems like a total Windows fanboy: | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=63934736 | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 09 01:11 |
| jono | sebsebseb, it doesnt get updated in the repo as we have a Stable Release Policy - making major revisions causes too many regressions | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > It's all a little worrying, so I thought I'd mention it to you. It | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > really looks to me like Ubuntu Forums have been targeted for intensive | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | > "perception management" in recent times. | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | They do this in many forums, especially before major releases (for the past decades). Can you provide examples? | Sep 09 01:11 |
| Will | jono: I'm still on Ubuntu 8.04. In the time since that, things like Firefox and OpenOffice have gotten pretty stale. I agree about the decision to only do sec updates to prevent regressions. | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | ^got this message some minutes ago BTW | Sep 09 01:11 |
| schestowitz | I wouldn't do much with it lacking examples... | Sep 09 01:12 |
| Will | jono: but, for those that don't mind taking a slight chance, it would be good to have a way to update at least the big things. | Sep 09 01:12 |
| Will | jono: And I think most of it is already in place | Sep 09 01:12 |
| Will | jono: The PPAs. | Sep 09 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | jono : the thing is before featurefreeze, upstream projects schedule should be taken into account | Sep 09 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | to make Ubuntu development version really a development version | Sep 09 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | and be synced with upstream projects | Sep 09 01:13 |
| Will | jono: The problem is, the PPAs aren't always well advertised to new users, and hunting for a PPA can be a little hit or miss. | Sep 09 01:13 |
| _Hicham_ | I mean major ones | Sep 09 01:13 |
| jono | Will, if you prefer to update big pieces, I would recommend Debian Unstable | Sep 09 01:13 |
| jono | it may suit you better | Sep 09 01:13 |
| sebsebseb | jono: yeah something better than ppa's for major stuff, something more supported and more offical, like a proper repo, main multiverse, etc, something like that | Sep 09 01:13 |
| jono | _Hicham_, it is, our schedule is based around GNOME | Sep 09 01:14 |
| jono | Will, yeah we need to do a better job with PPAs | Sep 09 01:14 |
| Will | jono: I've updated them myself (debs or src when necessary): I'm just trying to think of ways to make it simpler for users that might not know how to do stuff like that. | Sep 09 01:14 |
| jono | sebsebseb, the problem is resources: if we have our developers work on PPA updates for major software, they are not doing distribution work on the next release | Sep 09 01:15 |
| jono | sorry folks, I am going to have to run | Sep 09 01:15 |
| jono | have a call | Sep 09 01:15 |
| jono | take care! | Sep 09 01:15 |
| Will | jono: thanks | Sep 09 01:15 |
| sebsebseb | jono: I meant a repo that can be added for later major packages, rather than having to use a ppa, or install in some other way, from source or whatever | Sep 09 01:15 |
| Will | jono: and your reply to seb is true. That's why I'm trying to think of improvements that minimize the amount of new effort. | Sep 09 01:16 |
| Will | jono: but instead tie together what is already there. | Sep 09 01:16 |
| trmanco | sebsebseb: backports exist | Sep 09 01:16 |
| sebsebseb | jono: a repo that can be added I mean enabled, a bit like backports for example, but for major versions of packages | Sep 09 01:16 |
| trmanco | they are just not active | Sep 09 01:16 |
| trmanco | backports repo | Sep 09 01:16 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: backports won't give people the very latest Firefox or Open Office, or whatever people are going on about at the time | Sep 09 01:17 |
| trmanco | it doesn't, but it can be used for that kind of software | Sep 09 01:17 |
| trmanco | for people who want it, they just need a tick | Sep 09 01:17 |
| sebsebseb | jono: maybe instead of adding it to it's own repo, add those package updates to backports or something, anyway your away, but hopefuly you wil read this later on | Sep 09 01:17 |
| schestowitz | http://bruno.kerouanton.net/blog/2009/09/06/frhack-in-live/ [photos | Sep 09 01:18 |
| Will | trmanco: Would doing something like that be true to the meaning of backports? | Sep 09 01:19 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 09 01:19 |
| Will | I mean, isn't a backport when you take a few features or bugfixes of a new version and port them into an old version? | Sep 09 01:19 |
| trmanco | just fetch the packages from ubuntu+1 and add it into backports of ubuntu | Sep 09 01:19 |
| trmanco | not only that | Sep 09 01:20 |
| trmanco | buntu does that for security updates | Sep 09 01:20 |
| Will | trmanco: If I seem like I'm flipflopping, it's because I also understand and agree with why Ubuntu LTS does what it does by default. | Sep 09 01:20 |
| trmanco | they cherry pick patches and patch the current release | Sep 09 01:20 |
| sebsebseb | Will: I had 8.04 on the other computer for a while | Sep 09 01:21 |
| trmanco | I remember in that specific version (8.04) that a lot of people requested an updated version of transmission into backports and it happened | Sep 09 01:21 |
| sebsebseb | Will: for it's usage it was fine, because of who was going to manly use it, my little brother, for some games and yeah | Sep 09 01:22 |
| trmanco | it wasn't just patches | Sep 09 01:22 |
| sebsebseb | Will: ,but yeah 8.04 does get old, eventaully I decided to upgrade to 8.10, and got the Internet connection issue | Sep 09 01:22 |
| trmanco | it was a complete new version backported from 8.10 | Sep 09 01:22 |
| Will | And I know full well I could just upgrade to 9.04 (probably will to 9.10), but a lot of businesses won't be happy with changing software every 6 months. But the LTS cycle might make sense to them. So I need to know about it before I try to pitch it. | Sep 09 01:22 |
| sebsebseb | Will: when 8.10 came out I thought 8.10 wasn't that worth upgrading to, but then this 9.04 thing came out, and I thought for that computer 8.10 would be better really | Sep 09 01:22 |
| sebsebseb | nice to have auto shutdown and that :) | Sep 09 01:22 |
| sebsebseb | one minute and it shut downs unless you tell it to do it already or restart or whatever | Sep 09 01:23 |
| trmanco | that feature saved me once from shutting down the computer accidentally | Sep 09 01:23 |
| trmanco | thanks to it's 60 second hold | Sep 09 01:24 |
| sebsebseb | Will: I helped two not that technical people get set up with Ubuntu, and by what I had seen in 9.04 and that, 9.04 was so not worth them using as their install | Sep 09 01:24 |
| trmanco | I pressed the power button by accident | Sep 09 01:24 |
| sebsebseb | Will: they both use 8.10 at the moment, altough this woman has 8.04 on an old lap top at the moment as well | Sep 09 01:24 |
| sebsebseb | Will: newer is not always better, but I think even for business the LTS, could get a bit old, when they aren't giving new versions of Firefox and Open Office and such from the repo | Sep 09 01:24 |
| schestowitz | Even decades later, Cosmos is still a brilliant programme. | Sep 09 01:25 |
| Will | sebsebseb: Think about how many businesses still use IE6, even though they have nothing that specifically requires IE. | Sep 09 01:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=867KuzMG-bg&feature=related | Sep 09 01:25 |
| sebsebseb | Will: well some do, stupid business apps that were made for IE only | Sep 09 01:26 |
| sebsebseb | oh that dicussion earlier is over I guess, but this is my last quote | Sep 09 01:26 |
| sebsebseb | [22:14] <ThistleWeb> wallclimber: one area MS have been very successful in, is making people afraid of their PCs. When something goes wrong it's always the users fault for clicking on something, not MS fault for letting it auto execute and install whatever malware | Sep 09 01:27 |
| sebsebseb | indeed at that | Sep 09 01:27 |
| Will | sebsebseb and wallclimer: agreed | Sep 09 01:27 |
| sebsebseb | Will: to what? | Sep 09 01:27 |
| Will | MS is most of the reason so many people are still scared of computers. | Sep 09 01:27 |
| Will | afraid they might "break" it just by touching it, or just generally not very comfortable around it. | Sep 09 01:28 |
| sebsebseb | Will: yeah and the anti virus companys and anti spyware companies are meant to help them, become less scaired? ,but really they take advantage of them, and suck money out of them? | Sep 09 01:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] From the press Im reading Windows 7 parties are being slated already! Who wants to be associated with them? #microsoft #vista #windows #xp | Sep 09 01:28 | |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: is BNc a user or a bot? | Sep 09 01:29 |
| trmanco | bot | Sep 09 01:29 |
| Will | I might be scared too if I had a car that was prone to acting up, stalling out, etc., and the hood was fused shut so that I couldn't even tinker in there and fix it. | Sep 09 01:29 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: that's what I thought, since not seen them actsaully talk here | Sep 09 01:29 |
| trmanco | he talks | Sep 09 01:29 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: well in that case maybe I have hmm | Sep 09 01:30 |
| trmanco | I'll show you | Sep 09 01:30 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: the notice stuff doesn't count as takling in the channal | Sep 09 01:30 |
| ThistleWeb | not surprised it's being slated, it's essentially buying friends. Anyone who can't get friends on their own merits does not deserve to have any, bought friends will tell you what you want, not what they mean | Sep 09 01:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] See!! | Sep 09 01:30 | |
| trmanco | :) | Sep 09 01:30 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: thought a notice hmm | Sep 09 01:31 |
| sebsebseb | through | Sep 09 01:31 |
| trmanco | yeah, it just a twitb0t | Sep 09 01:31 |
| Will | what exactly does one do at a Windows 7 party, anyway? | Sep 09 01:31 |
| trmanco | play monkey games and eat junk food | Sep 09 01:31 |
| sebsebseb | Will: Pay Microsoft fan boys the entrance fee :D | Sep 09 01:31 |
| Will | Install an OS? How fun is that? (Windows, OSX, or Linux)? | Sep 09 01:32 |
| trmanco | and cheap booze | Sep 09 01:32 |
| Will | And then sit around a laptop... | Sep 09 01:32 |
| sebsebseb | What do people do at the Ubuntu release partys? | Sep 09 01:32 |
| -_Hicham_/#boycottnovell-sebsebseb | Sep 09 01:32 | |
| Will | sebsebseb: touche | Sep 09 01:32 |
| ThistleWeb | Will: it's like a digital swingers party, where peeps swap viruses instead of wives | Sep 09 01:32 |
| trmanco | w00t | Sep 09 01:32 |
| sebsebseb | Will: What? | Sep 09 01:32 |
| trmanco | hmm | Sep 09 01:33 |
| Will | sebsebseb: good point there | Sep 09 01:33 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : they drink beer and dance with chicks | Sep 09 01:33 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 09 01:33 |
| trmanco | :D | Sep 09 01:33 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu hires some chicks to animate the party | Sep 09 01:33 |
| trmanco | Hire? | Sep 09 01:33 |
| _Hicham_ | it is Shuttleworth himself who pays the chicks | Sep 09 01:33 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu you meant Canonical | Sep 09 01:33 |
| trmanco | no paying | Sep 09 01:33 |
| trmanco | it's free | Sep 09 01:33 |
| trmanco | :-p | Sep 09 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | wearing all the T-Shirt : I do it with Ubuntu | Sep 09 01:34 |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-66-71.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 01:34 | |
| trmanco | they community | Sep 09 01:34 |
| trmanco | the* | Sep 09 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | so everybody is doing it with Ubuntu | Sep 09 01:34 |
| *Will wonders if anyone might try to crash a Win7 party with a dual boot Ubuntu laptop. | Sep 09 01:36 | |
| trmanco | kubuntu actually | Sep 09 01:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Win7 is based on Ubuntu | Sep 09 01:36 |
| trmanco | Will: I've already thought of going to one of those parties dressed as a tux | Sep 09 01:36 |
| *Will thinks Kubuntu would be even better to use for the Win7 party | Sep 09 01:36 | |
| trmanco | and it wasn't just me | Sep 09 01:36 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 09 01:36 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: Win7 based on Ubuntu hmm, I know your joking here, but what's funny about that? | Sep 09 01:36 |
| trmanco | indeed | Sep 09 01:36 |
| Will | Bring a KDE4 laptop to the party and see how long it takes for people to figure out you aren't running Windows 7 | Sep 09 01:37 |
| trmanco | lol | Sep 09 01:37 |
| sebsebseb | or impress them with Compiz Fushion | Sep 09 01:37 |
| sebsebseb | or something | Sep 09 01:37 |
| trmanco | I'll even add the orb instead of the k | Sep 09 01:37 |
| trmanco | the windows orb | Sep 09 01:37 |
| _Hicham_ | Chromium code is bigger than Mozilla's Code | Sep 09 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | it fits on a whole cd | Sep 09 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | and it is just a browser | Sep 09 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | while Mozill's code is a lot of components | Sep 09 01:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Watched District 9 the other day, it's an awesome movie. Loving that it's set in SA too, instead of the usual Hollywood settings. http:/ ... | Sep 09 01:38 | |
| trmanco | the git has unnecessary stuff | Sep 09 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | browser, mail client, calendar and some other stuff | Sep 09 01:39 |
| trmanco | that's why it's so big | Sep 09 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : it is not git | Sep 09 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the tarball | Sep 09 01:39 |
| trmanco | wow | Sep 09 01:39 |
| trmanco | well, tarball is identical to git | Sep 09 01:39 |
| trmanco | without the db's and other junk | Sep 09 01:39 |
| trmanco | in a compiled state it's small | Sep 09 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the same size as firefox | Sep 09 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | no, it is more | Sep 09 01:41 |
| Will | trmanco: fair warning though: If you use the latest KDE4 instead of 4.0 or 4.1, people might guess that it isn't Windows sooner. | Sep 09 01:41 |
| _Hicham_ | because Firefox with XUL bundled with it, is 9MB | Sep 09 01:41 |
| Will | because it will crash less often. | Sep 09 01:41 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 09 01:41 |
| trmanco | ok guys, time for me to go | Sep 09 01:42 |
| trmanco | gn | Sep 09 01:42 |
| Will | gn | Sep 09 01:42 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: bye | Sep 09 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | gn trmanco | Sep 09 01:46 |
| Will | You know, about those Best Buy ads... It's all about Windows vs. Linux. Very little in there about the Mac. | Sep 09 01:46 |
| ThistleWeb | do best buy sell macs? | Sep 09 01:46 |
| Will | yes | Sep 09 01:46 |
| ThistleWeb | I reckon most peeps considering macs would go to a mac store | Sep 09 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | sebsebseb : is that u http://www.sebsebseb.net/ ? | Sep 09 01:46 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: no | Sep 09 01:47 |
| Will | ThistleWeb: but here's what's strange about it to me: MS Best Buy training against Linux, which Best Buy doesn't sell anyway, but nothing against Macs, which Best Buy does sell and which might take the place of a PC sale. | Sep 09 01:48 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: I don't speak French | Sep 09 01:48 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: there has been some French guy or whatever using my name before on this network though, in some small channal that I got booted from when I complained about using my name. | Sep 09 01:49 |
| sebsebseb | so maybe the person behind that website | Sep 09 01:49 |
| ThistleWeb | Will: if they buy either windows or a mac from best buy, best buy still win | Sep 09 01:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] "cringe worthy" is how many are describing the idea of Windows 7 parties... and I thought Clippy was hated. #windows #microsoft #vista #xp | Sep 09 01:50 | |
| ThistleWeb | if they;ve been shopping around and seen a cheaper linux, best buy cant sell them linux, so they lose a sale | Sep 09 01:51 |
| Will | makes sense | Sep 09 01:51 |
| ThistleWeb | MS have cut their profits so much on netbooks that they cant even price match a cheaper linux netbook | Sep 09 01:51 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: Bnc is a Perl script | Sep 09 01:51 |
| ThistleWeb | so they lose if the customer chooses linux | Sep 09 01:52 |
| ThistleWeb | hence the lies and deception | Sep 09 01:52 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: ah ok | Sep 09 01:52 |
| Will | ThistleWeb: that brings me to a point I've been meaning to bring up. | Sep 09 01:52 |
| Will | You know how Adobe won't release a Linux version of Photoshop? And a few other cases like that? | Sep 09 01:53 |
| Will | In the absence of Linux versions, we have things like the Gimp | Sep 09 01:54 |
| Will | And Gimp will continue improving and getting better | Sep 09 01:54 |
| Will | (It's already more than good enough for the things I do with it) | Sep 09 01:55 |
| ThistleWeb | photoshop relies on companies who cant afford not to get caught with proper licenced versions. Corporations all use Windows for regular office tasks, and Macs for design stuff | Sep 09 01:55 |
| sebsebseb | Will: apparantly eventaully there will be an online Photoshop | Sep 09 01:55 |
| ThistleWeb | as long as that's the norm, those are the only 2 platforms Adobe will target | Sep 09 01:56 |
| Will | But my point is that once the opensource equivalents in various areas get to a certain point, might they start replacing the proprietary stuff outright? | Sep 09 01:56 |
| Will | Leaving Adobe et al painted into a corner? | Sep 09 01:56 |
| ThistleWeb | they know that something like 80% of photshop installs are unlicenced but they dont care | Sep 09 01:56 |
| ThistleWeb | of course | Sep 09 01:56 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: Microsoft same kind of thing | Sep 09 01:57 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: exactly | Sep 09 01:57 |
| sebsebseb | they know a lot of their stuff is pirated, but they don't care that much, because people still get locked in | Sep 09 01:57 |
| Will | Whereas if Adobe had come out with a Photoshop for Linux from the getgo, Gimp might never have progressed to that point. | Sep 09 01:57 |
| ThistleWeb | any company being audited and found to have unliceneced copies of expensive software get hammered in fines and bad PR | Sep 09 01:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin my windows 7 drinking game page is at about 30k hits so far today | Sep 09 01:57 | |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: PR?? | Sep 09 01:58 |
| ThistleWeb | pr = public relations | Sep 09 01:58 |
| ThistleWeb | bad press | Sep 09 01:58 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: yeah I thought I had seen PR or something like that being used before, but in that case I coudn't remember what it meant | Sep 09 01:58 |
| sebsebseb | yep if business or goverment or schools use pirated software they can get in a lot of trouble | Sep 09 01:59 |
| sebsebseb | and quite a lot of schools don't really have that much money, but yet they are wasting it on Microsoft and other commercial software | Sep 09 01:59 |
| Will | Microsoft practically gives it away to schools though. Office for $20. Get the kiddies hooked young. | Sep 09 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | money they could be spending on something else, that's better for the school | Sep 09 02:00 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 09 02:00 | |
| sebsebseb | Will: well yeah now days | Sep 09 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | it's all part of the vender lock in | Sep 09 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | they aren't doing it to be nice really | Sep 09 02:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard LOL...is it with balloons or without? | Sep 09 02:00 | |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: I remember a lil local council near me who had an employee install like a single licence XP on lots of new PCs because he didnt know better, and he was "saving money" | Sep 09 02:00 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: and what happended? | Sep 09 02:01 |
| ThistleWeb | someone grassed them, they got an audit | Sep 09 02:01 |
| ThistleWeb | and got hammered in fines | Sep 09 02:01 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: remind me what an audit is (assuming I know heh) | Sep 09 02:01 |
| ThistleWeb | in addition to the guy and his boss losing their jobs, they had to spend even more tax payers money on buying new licences for every PC they had unlicenced installs on | Sep 09 02:02 |
| ThistleWeb | an audit is where the officials turn up and check each PC, with every serial number on every peice of software, and check whether you're registered to it, if it's volume licenced, are you going over your number etc | Sep 09 02:03 |
| sebsebseb | ok | Sep 09 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | I asked somewhere else as well | Sep 09 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | yeah check to make sure it's all legal | Sep 09 02:04 |
| ThistleWeb | my cue would be "well, we cant afford to buy all these licences, I guess we'll just move the whole lot to Linux" | Sep 09 02:04 |
| Will | makes me wonder what they'd do in an office run on open source. Would they understand that there is no serial number? | Sep 09 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: oh yes those threats have been sued before | Sep 09 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: by companies that don't really care about the freedoms | Sep 09 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | hoping to get a better deal on Microsoft software | Sep 09 02:04 |
| sebsebseb | used not sued above | Sep 09 02:05 |
| ThistleWeb | Will: the auditors are only looking for software on their employers books | Sep 09 02:05 |
| ThistleWeb | if they're not being paid to look after openoffice's interests, they wont even check an openoffice install, regardless of whether it's open or closed source | Sep 09 02:05 |
| ThistleWeb | they exist to make money, so they want to focus on stuff they can take action on | Sep 09 02:06 |
| ThistleWeb | if they find infringements | Sep 09 02:06 |
| ThistleWeb | if MS are paying them, they'll look at every peice of MS software on every PC in your company | Sep 09 02:07 |
| sebsebseb | ok | Sep 09 02:08 |
| ThistleWeb | it wont be the company themselves doing the audits, it'll be a separate company paid to get results | Sep 09 02:09 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: yep | Sep 09 02:09 |
| ThistleWeb | in addition to examining the PC's they will crawl over the paperwork, receipts etc relating to software purchasing / licencing | Sep 09 02:10 |
| ThistleWeb | I'd imagine everything they find would be checked at the vendor end too, to make sure it matches | Sep 09 02:10 |
| ThistleWeb | then a report sent to the software vendor, like MS, who would then send in the lawyers | Sep 09 02:11 |
| ThistleWeb | where you are not in a good position to negotiate anything other than a hard shafting | Sep 09 02:12 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: and then those people might switch to opensource/freesoftware or not | Sep 09 02:12 |
| Will | sebsebseb: you'd think getting burned like that would be the best pitch ever for open source, but then people sometimes have a surprisingly high tolerance for abuse at the hands of proprietary software. | Sep 09 02:13 |
| ThistleWeb | audits can be a great seller of FOSS, but only if theres someone in the company who knows about it and can suggest it as an alternative, if not, these things are sold as a "there's no other choice" thing | Sep 09 02:14 |
| ThistleWeb | companies also need their daily routine to continue relentless | Sep 09 02:14 |
| Will | ThistleWeb: I'm thinking about a long term switch with an initial seed trial. | Sep 09 02:15 |
| ThistleWeb | so any hassle of having to devote time and resources to seeking alternates quickly can be a turn off, when they can sign a cheque and turn what they have into legal versions | Sep 09 02:15 |
| Will | Not change the minute the audit is over | Sep 09 02:15 |
| ThistleWeb | MS like to ensure that peeps think MS is the only game in town too | Sep 09 02:16 |
| ThistleWeb | to ensure that all retailers sell only Windows | Sep 09 02:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin http://bit.ly/QMYQg | Sep 09 02:16 | |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: or have the alternatives hidden away like Dell | Sep 09 02:16 |
| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: exactly | Sep 09 02:17 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: http://www.dell.com/ubuntu well that's obvious enough for us, but we know it's there, the average Dell customer doesn't, well I assume you knew it was there :D | Sep 09 02:18 |
| Will | ThistleWeb: In my case, I got exposed to Linux in school. But for other people, there is the internet. I'm wondering how many people, thoroughly dissatisfied with Vista, have ever some much as googled to try to find something better or at least see what their options are. | Sep 09 02:18 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: well I assume that you knew, that it is there, above | Sep 09 02:19 |
| ThistleWeb | Will: they will seek other MS options to escape vista....which (to them) is windows 7 | Sep 09 02:19 |
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| ThistleWeb | sebsebseb: yep | Sep 09 02:19 |
| sebsebseb | little mistakes here and there, is rather fine on IRC, but I still like to correct myself, when things don't quite make sense properly | Sep 09 02:19 |
| Will | Dell took down their Ubuntu desktop a while back | Sep 09 02:20 |
| sebsebseb | Will: oh? | Sep 09 02:20 |
| Will | They promised that they were only refreshing it and it would be back in July | Sep 09 02:20 |
| ThistleWeb | IRC is a live chat, where things sometimes get mixed up, typos etc It's like any live conversation | Sep 09 02:20 |
| sebsebseb | I read that pre insatlled Ubuntu Dell is also available in Holland, or something like that | Sep 09 02:21 |
| Will | Still nothing, though a source on the internet claims that there really is something in the works between Canonical and Dell and that new models are still on the way. | Sep 09 02:21 |
| ThistleWeb | the point is "being understood" | Sep 09 02:21 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: exactly | Sep 09 02:21 |
| ThistleWeb | it always amazes me when people chat in real time in English, when it's not their first language, and speak it well too | Sep 09 02:21 |
| ThistleWeb | I learned a lil Spanish but couldn't hold a convo in it | Sep 09 02:22 |
| Will | sebsebseb: If you want Linux preinstalled, try System76 or ZaReason | Sep 09 02:22 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah I hear a lot of good things about system76 | Sep 09 02:22 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: yeah there was someone earlier, first I thought maybe it was some teenager, because of the gparted screenshot of Ubuntu with the Mac OS X look, but then later I find out it was someone from Malaysisia | Sep 09 02:22 |
| ThistleWeb | dann from tllts got a laptop from them a while back | Sep 09 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: and yeah there English was pretty good | Sep 09 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: it seems a lot of the younger Ubuntu users, want it to look like Mac OS X | Sep 09 02:23 |
| ThistleWeb | fab from LO is another great example | Sep 09 02:23 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: to be exact there were two screenshots, the other of computer, but this is also irelivant | Sep 09 02:24 |
| sebsebseb | making Linux distros look like OS X hmm | Sep 09 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | I did it quite a while ago for a bit | Sep 09 02:25 |
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| Will | sebsebseb: I really like the gnome-colors theme | Sep 09 02:25 |
| ThistleWeb | osx does look stylish if you like that style | Sep 09 02:25 |
| sebsebseb | Will: which theme? | Sep 09 02:26 |
| ThistleWeb | themes are all personal | Sep 09 02:26 |
| sebsebseb | Will: gnome default or? | Sep 09 02:26 |
| Will | sebsebseb: It looks nice, and it isn't a Windows/OSX copycat | Sep 09 02:26 |
| Will | sebsebseb: I'll get the link | Sep 09 02:26 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu has a nice enough default theme for Gnome really | Sep 09 02:26 |
| sebsebseb | and with a little bit of customzing of Gnome, it will be even better | Sep 09 02:26 |
| ThistleWeb | there's a MacPup which is Puppy designed to mimic OSX in style | Sep 09 02:26 |
| Will | sebsebseb: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717 | Sep 09 02:27 |
| sebsebseb | the log in screen I like blubuntu :) which is in the repo, but with this new gdm hmm I am wondering about themes | Sep 09 02:27 |
| sebsebseb | the new one that is in Karmic | Sep 09 02:27 |
| Will | Shiki-Colors is the theme, Gnome-Colors is the icon set, and Arc-Colors is the GDM login theme | Sep 09 02:27 |
| ThistleWeb | even if it looks like osx, it's still linux, with all the freedom that entails | Sep 09 02:27 |
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| ThistleWeb | and it can be easily rethemed if you get bored with the osx theme | Sep 09 02:28 |
| ThistleWeb | try doing that with a mac | Sep 09 02:28 |
| Will | sebsebseb: Linux Mint uses the Green variant as it's default theme. | Sep 09 02:28 |
| Will | ThistleWeb: I've used one, you can't. All you can change is the wallpaper. | Sep 09 02:28 |
| ThistleWeb | the mint 6 icons are the only default icons I've ever liked enough not to change | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | More re: Ubuntu Forums shills: | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > Well there's that guy on the forum staff I mentioned already, called | Sep 09 02:29 |
| sebsebseb | Will: those screenshots look ok, but I am not so keen on the darker themes | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > Hymn to Life, and this guy seems to be a shill: | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=63939046 (Tristam Green). | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > There's a whole bunch of them though, and it's never one particular | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > standout comment, it's a general pattern.... The thing about | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > astroturfing is that although it looks incriminating sometimes, it might | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > just be a genuine Windows fan who also likes Linux - but in the past six | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | > months or so, the pro-Windows activity seems to have become more pronounced. | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. I've raised the issue with their community manager. I don't want to injure the team in a way that only disrupts the whole company (disrepute). | Sep 09 02:29 |
| schestowitz | It seems lke Mutex might be here | Sep 09 02:30 |
| ThistleWeb | for me, the default theme on any dirtso means nothing as I always change it to suit my tastes | Sep 09 02:30 |
| Will | schestowitz: which themes do you like best? I always like stumbling upon really cool themes (KDE or Gnome). | Sep 09 02:30 |
| sebsebseb | Will: Mint is to green by default for my likeing | Sep 09 02:30 |
| sebsebseb | Will: and it's more newbie and all that by default really | Sep 09 02:30 |
| sebsebseb | and better to use real Ubuntu I think | Sep 09 02:30 |
| ThistleWeb | green can be a delicate thing, the right balance and blend looks fresh and sweet, but it can look awful too | Sep 09 02:31 |
| sebsebseb | Will: well I guess Mint is more newbie, not used it properly | Sep 09 02:31 |
| sebsebseb | Will: only in vm | Sep 09 02:31 |
| *ThistleWeb keeps switching between mint xfce and crunchbang | Sep 09 02:31 | |
| ThistleWeb | I've been tempted to break that pattern recently by trying Arch | Sep 09 02:32 |
| Will | sebsebseb: true. Mint does kind of hide things from you a little more than Ubuntu. Maybe "hand-holding" or "software wizards" is the concept I'm looking for. | Sep 09 02:32 |
| Will | I prefer stock Ubuntu for me. | Sep 09 02:32 |
| sebsebseb | Will: Mandriva is more newbie than Ubuntu also really, plus it has parantel controls, which one of Microsoft's anti Linux thingeys, said Linux does not have | Sep 09 02:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : nice. I was gonna write about it in the morning. | Sep 09 02:32 | |
| sebsebseb | Will: well I haevn't used Mandriva properly, plus something happended with the vm or whatever it was hmm | Sep 09 02:33 |
| Will | sebsebseb: whenever I do rock the boat on this machine, I'm probably going to give Mandriva a trial run before going to a buntu again. | Sep 09 02:33 |
| Will | Mandrake used to be :) ... Then it Mandriva became :|, then :{ ..., and now I hear Mandriva is back to :> | Sep 09 02:34 |
| sebsebseb | Will: parantal controls maybe more than one anti Linux thing from Microsoft said that Linux distros don't have. anyway yeah having one for Ubuntu in the repo at least, would be good, I don't think there is one in the repo | Sep 09 02:35 |
| Will | If anyone would know somethine about parental controls for Linux, I'd think Helios would. | Sep 09 02:37 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: it's ashame that Arch didn't work well in a vm | Sep 09 02:37 |
| sebsebseb | ThistleWeb: someone helped me set up with the like very basic, and then I try and load up the OS in vm, and it closes, it was something to do with the kernel or whatever | Sep 09 02:37 |
| ThistleWeb | arch seems mixed | Sep 09 02:38 |
| ThistleWeb | as it's a rolling distro, I'd be wary of an upate breaking something | Sep 09 02:38 |
| sebsebseb | some of the Arch Linux users have trolled Ubuntu channals before as well | Sep 09 02:39 |
| sebsebseb | it's nice to have choice differnet distros and that | Sep 09 02:39 |
| schestowitz | Will: Oxygen | Sep 09 02:39 |
| sebsebseb | ,but Ubuntu is the one that has most chance at gaining a proper market share on the desktop I think, I mean like 20 or 30% percent | Sep 09 02:39 |
| sebsebseb | so that's a good one to support | Sep 09 02:40 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu is the juggernaut we should all get behind, regardless of whether we use it or not | Sep 09 02:40 |
| ThistleWeb | everyone else will benefit from it's increasing presence | Sep 09 02:41 |
| sebsebseb | well some people are worried that if Ubuntu gains to much of the market | Sep 09 02:41 |
| ThistleWeb | plenty will start with ubuntu, then move to a different distro | Sep 09 02:41 |
| sebsebseb | that a lot of companies and such will be making for Ubuntu, but not aother distros as well | Sep 09 02:41 |
| ThistleWeb | if they make for ubuntu, ubuntu is FOSS, the code can be adapted to other distros to get them seamlessly working too | Sep 09 02:42 |
| Will | That, and the distros built on top of Debian/Ubuntu might not even need adaptation | Sep 09 02:43 |
| ThistleWeb | Will: very likely | Sep 09 02:43 |
| Will | It bewilders me why Linux distros fight (not compete, fight). All it takes is for one distro to win. Then all win. | Sep 09 02:43 |
| schestowitz | How Google Looks at Spam Complaints < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/08/how-google-looks-at-spam-complaints > | Sep 09 02:44 |
| schestowitz | I've sent them lists before | Sep 09 02:45 |
| schestowitz | They handle spam sites | Sep 09 02:45 |
| Will | ThistleWeb: If you go looking for older software that maybe hasn't been maintained as well, the only binaries you find are RH9, FC1,2 or something similar. Nowadays, you usually have a much better chance of finding a deb than an rpm. | Sep 09 02:47 |
| sebsebseb | Will: well some people are worried that if Ubuntu gains 20% or 30% market share, that all distros lose except one, and that one can basically do whatever they like | Sep 09 02:49 |
| Will | sebsebseb: what I don't see is how any one distro can really dictate if all the code is open source. | Sep 09 02:50 |
| Will | and besides, the alternative to one distro gaining 20-30% might be that all distros never get more than a small share (that collectively totals somewhere around 10-15%) | Sep 09 02:52 |
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| Will | It's not like Linux is going to die or wither if it doesn't increase market share, but still, a higher market share of Linux makes life easier for Linux users, and the diversity benefits the industry as a whole. | Sep 09 02:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090908164954318 | Sep 09 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft tries to sue Linux by proxy again? | Sep 09 02:54 |
| schestowitz | This criminal company... | Sep 09 02:54 |
| sebsebseb | Will: well not everything in Ubuntu is freesoftware or open source | Sep 09 02:54 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu is creating a bigger and bigger wave, every other distro will benefit from it's wake | Sep 09 02:54 |
| bruce89 | Will: the lack of diversity would be good? | Sep 09 02:55 |
| Will | bruce89: not lack of diversity. More diversity. Less monoculture. ~30% split between Windows, OSX, and Linux. | Sep 09 02:57 |
| bruce89 | no, not Linux, Ubuntu | Sep 09 02:57 |
| bruce89 | so less diversity in the FOSS space | Sep 09 02:57 |
| Will | sebsebseb: good point there, but I'm guessing the power of Red Hat will counterbalance that somewhat. If you make closed source code that runs only on a Debian derivative, you are ignoring the Red Hat market. | Sep 09 02:59 |
| bruce89 | I can see there is an issue with regard non-FOSS code being packaged on all sorts of distros | Sep 09 02:59 |
| Will | bruce89: the rise of one distro shouldn't kill off the others. At worst, their situation probably would be no worse that it is now. What would you suggest? | Sep 09 03:00 |
| bruce89 | well, to be frank, this is a non-issue | Sep 09 03:00 |
| bruce89 | basically because FOSS will never get such a large share | Sep 09 03:01 |
| bruce89 | of course it will in certain circumstances, but not in normal peoples' houses | Sep 09 03:02 |
| _Hicham_ | well, FOSS might get such a share | Sep 09 03:02 |
| Will | in time. years maybe | Sep 09 03:02 |
| Will | decades, maybe | Sep 09 03:02 |
| _Hicham_ | if it is 100% graphical | Sep 09 03:02 |
| sebsebseb | yep years | Sep 09 03:02 |
| sebsebseb | 10 years maybe | Sep 09 03:02 |
| bruce89 | I don't refute it is getting higher, but I don't see it as an issue | Sep 09 03:02 |
| _Hicham_ | like Mandriva, or SUSE | Sep 09 03:02 |
| bruce89 | I mean, if I was a developer, I'd like people to use my programs, but I also wouldn't care if they didn't | Sep 09 03:03 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: Surely the shell can be used in those as well? | Sep 09 03:03 |
| _Hicham_ | basically, if u add the hardware detection of Ubuntu with the ease of use of Mandriva and openSUSE, u will get a really user friendly system | Sep 09 03:03 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: also with Ubuntu people can normalley get by quite nicely not needing to use the terminal, unless they got to configure hardware or something like that | Sep 09 03:03 |
| bruce89 | I don't see what U-word does to hardware detection, aside from bundling a bunch of other modules | Sep 09 03:04 |
| sebsebseb | bruce89: yeah since you don't really care about market share | Sep 09 03:04 |
| sebsebseb | bruce89: heh you done U-word in here now as well :D | Sep 09 03:04 |
| _Hicham_ | there is nothing wrong with ubuntu | Sep 09 03:05 |
| ThistleWeb | U-word? who mentioned U-bends? Did we swicth topics to plumbing? | Sep 09 03:05 |
| _Hicham_ | they are doing a great job | Sep 09 03:05 |
| Will | bruce89: The only magic thing about the U-word is that it tries to attack one of the achilles heels of Linux: marketing. | Sep 09 03:05 |
| _Hicham_ | except | Sep 09 03:05 |
| _Hicham_ | they are not keeping up with upstream | Sep 09 03:06 |
| bruce89 | but they don't, it's just hype | Sep 09 03:06 |
| _Hicham_ | that is their main fault | Sep 09 03:06 |
| _Hicham_ | bruce89 : do u have sthg against ubuntu ? | Sep 09 03:06 |
| bruce89 | well, I don't really | Sep 09 03:06 |
| _Hicham_ | why do u think that they r not doing their job well ? | Sep 09 03:07 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: he does to some extent | Sep 09 03:07 |
| _Hicham_ | why is it so popular then ? | Sep 09 03:07 |
| bruce89 | I do worry about people confusing Ubuntu as the actual developers of everything that is bundled | Sep 09 03:07 |
| ThistleWeb | _Hicham_: the "U-word" thing kinda makes me think I smell a shill | Sep 09 03:07 |
| _Hicham_ | bruce89 : we can't avoid that | Sep 09 03:07 |
| Will | bruce89: a good concern | Sep 09 03:07 |
| Will | Since you see websites like "10 new features in $Ubuntu+1" | Sep 09 03:08 |
| bruce89 | I don't think the "Ubuntu App Store" will help | Sep 09 03:08 |
| Will | and those are just features in the next Gnome release | Sep 09 03:08 |
| _Hicham_ | bruce89 : how can they sell Ubuntu then ? | Sep 09 03:08 |
| bruce89 | it's up to them | Sep 09 03:08 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not them who made it, it is them who packaged it | Sep 09 03:08 |
| _Hicham_ | they make it clear | Sep 09 03:08 |
| bruce89 | I was referring to Will's advertising of new features thing | Sep 09 03:08 |
| Will | bruce89: acutally, I've found the app store concept to be the best way to explain Linux software installation to people. | Sep 09 03:09 |
| bruce89 | isn't it just a new UI to apt? | Sep 09 03:10 |
| Will | bruce89: Well, what I mean, separate from the Ubuntu App Store project, is that people can't seem to wrap their heads around software installation in Linux, then I say, "It's like the iphone", and a lightbulb magically comes on. | Sep 09 03:11 |
| bruce89 | I'm sure not everyone has an iPhone | Sep 09 03:11 |
| Will | no, but even people that don't often know about it. | Sep 09 03:11 |
| Will | and the app store | Sep 09 03:12 |
| bruce89 | but maybe it's part of the modern trend to not have a willingness to learn things | Sep 09 03:12 |
| _Hicham_ | there is nothing wrong with an Ubuntu App Store | Sep 09 03:12 |
| bruce89 | apart from the naming, I don't mind | Sep 09 03:13 |
| _Hicham_ | what is wrong with the naming ? | Sep 09 03:13 |
| bruce89 | also, I notice they yet again resist PackageKit | Sep 09 03:13 |
| _Hicham_ | bruce89 : they don't resist PackageKit | Sep 09 03:14 |
| _Hicham_ | they are studying its integration | Sep 09 03:14 |
| bruce89 | so why bother with Yet Another Package UI? | Sep 09 03:14 |
| _Hicham_ | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/PackageKit | Sep 09 03:15 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u mean ? | Sep 09 03:16 |
| _Hicham_ | PackageKit isn't a package manager | Sep 09 03:16 |
| _Hicham_ | it can be, but it is not its purpose | Sep 09 03:16 |
| bruce89 | well, it seems hypocritical to have people saying "We need one distro", when Ubuntu won't accept PackageKit | Sep 09 03:16 |
| Will | I seem to remember seeing somewhere that PackageKit doesn't allow user interaction to make config choices at package install time, and the debian package system was designed to let users make config choices at install time. Is this correct? | Sep 09 03:16 |
| _Hicham_ | did u see the url ? | Sep 09 03:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Will : exactly | Sep 09 03:17 |
| bruce89 | anyway, I can see I'm not going to get anywhere here | Sep 09 03:17 |
| _Hicham_ | that is one big issue | Sep 09 03:17 |
| _Hicham_ | bruce89 : because u lack the basics | Sep 09 03:17 |
| bruce89 | that's a new one | Sep 09 03:17 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Sep 09 03:17 |
| _Hicham_ | u came over to troll | Sep 09 03:18 |
| _Hicham_ | but there is no place here for trolls | Sep 09 03:18 |
| bruce89 | sebsebseb: you see, thanks for this | Sep 09 03:18 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: no he didn't actsaulley | Sep 09 03:18 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: he came over, because of me, but not to troll | Sep 09 03:18 |
| bruce89 | I don't see how explaining my side of the story can be considered trolling | Sep 09 03:18 |
| bruce89 | but if that's your definition, good luck to you | Sep 09 03:18 |
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| Will | doesn't Kubuntu use KPackageKit? | Sep 09 03:22 |
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| bruce89 | I'd like to apologise for the fuss, and indeed I haven't kept up with Ubuntu's changes | Sep 09 03:30 |
| sebsebseb | _Hicham_: ^ | Sep 09 03:31 |
| sebsebseb | above | Sep 09 03:31 |
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| DaemonFC | Empathy is now crashing whenever I try to start it | Sep 09 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | and not triggering Apport | Sep 09 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | nice | Sep 09 03:56 |
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| _Hicham_ | nice DaemonFC | Sep 09 04:09 |
| _Hicham_ | nice nightly tester | Sep 09 04:09 |
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| DaemonFC | hmmm, Empathy doesn't show who has ops? | Sep 09 04:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Just watched Chad Wollenburg's SELF talk, well done Chad, good stuff. http://tinyurl.com/njjuft | Sep 09 04:33 | |
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| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : are u becoming nuts? | Sep 09 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | meh, just trying Empathy again | Sep 09 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | they probably figured it would be simpler not to have it tell you what the hell is going on in an IRC room | Sep 09 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | and not let you change your MSN name | Sep 09 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | those are features and preferences after all :) | Sep 09 04:35 |
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| _Hicham_ | it is a young project | Sep 09 04:37 |
| _Hicham_ | when did it appear? | Sep 09 04:37 |
| _Hicham_ | in gnome-2.24 | Sep 09 04:37 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is just its seconf release | Sep 09 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they depend on 90% of Pidgin being installed anyway | Sep 09 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | libpurple | Sep 09 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | or else it only understands a few simple things like Jabber | Sep 09 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder why they're defaulting to it if it's nowhere close to ready | Sep 09 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | there's also no option to disable chat logging | Sep 09 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | I'd call it one hell of a regression over Pidgin | Sep 09 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | "Let's make something that uses the same resources as Pidgin while taking all the user's freedom away" | Sep 09 04:42 |
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| DaemonFC | much better | Sep 09 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | why they think all their users are simplistic morons who are afraid of features is beyond me | Sep 09 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu has traditionally skipped out on other GNOME apps due to this kind of crap | Sep 09 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | something tells me that most users would take one look at the official GNOME desktop and run screaming back to Windows XP | Sep 09 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Empathy is still young | Sep 09 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | and u don't have to use it | Sep 09 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | like most of default gnome apps | Sep 09 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | who runs totem ? | Sep 09 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | who runs rhythmbox ? | Sep 09 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | I use Totem, sometimes | Sep 09 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | who runs epiphany ? | Sep 09 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | come on | Sep 09 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | I am right now | Sep 09 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 09 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany-Webkit | Sep 09 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | I'm gonna run it through PeaceKeeper | Sep 09 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Epiphany is terrible with certificates | Sep 09 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany Webkit is looking a hell of a lot better than the Gecko version | Sep 09 04:48 |
| _Hicham_ | the usable browser to date is firefox | Sep 09 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | nobody can deny that | Sep 09 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | I have version 2.27.92 out of their PPA along with the Extensions | Sep 09 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | the ad blocker is working too :) | Sep 09 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | I know | Sep 09 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | but few extensions | Sep 09 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | I don't use extensions much | Sep 09 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | do u use certificates ? | Sep 09 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | Why they push basic functionality like middle click to scroll out to extensions is beyond me though | Sep 09 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | that reeks of bad design | Sep 09 04:50 |
| _Hicham_ | GNOME is moving towards Webkit | Sep 09 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 09 04:50 |
| _Hicham_ | Evolution has an experimental Webkit backend | Sep 09 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | I've been waiting for them to for a long time | Sep 09 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like Gecko or Xulrunner | Sep 09 04:51 |
| _Hicham_ | why? | Sep 09 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | they don't fit in as system components | Sep 09 04:51 |
| _Hicham_ | well, gnome is still using xulrunner | Sep 09 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | they're steered totally according to the needs of Mozilla products | Sep 09 04:51 |
| _Hicham_ | for the help system | Sep 09 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they're removing dependencies on legacy crap like Xulrunner left and right | Sep 09 04:52 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla is still improving the code | Sep 09 04:52 |
| _Hicham_ | it is getting faster and faster with every release | Sep 09 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | by the next GNOME release, all this deprecated crap should be gone | Sep 09 04:52 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, yelp will be based on webkit | Sep 09 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany Webkit is 3 times faster than Firefox 3.5 | Sep 09 04:52 |
| _Hicham_ | did u do a test ? | Sep 09 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | according to Peacekeeper | Sep 09 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Sep 09 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany Webkit is over 3 times faster than FF 3.5 | Sep 09 04:53 |
| _Hicham_ | is this a javascript test ? | Sep 09 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | I lost my last Firefox benchmark though so I'm running it again | Sep 09 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | it was like 1108 | Sep 09 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany Webkit got 3087 | Sep 09 04:54 |
| _Hicham_ | did u enable tracemonkey ? | Sep 09 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's a combined average though | Sep 09 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | Javascript blows Gecko away | Sep 09 04:54 |
| _Hicham_ | stubborn head | Sep 09 04:54 |
| _Hicham_ | u just want to say what u like | Sep 09 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | I'll post it when Firefox crawls to the finish line in about 10 minutes | Sep 09 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | crawls is really too kind | Sep 09 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | more like limps | Sep 09 04:55 |
| _Hicham_ | crazy DaemonFC | Sep 09 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3361/screenshotlw.png | Sep 09 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox did a little better on this run | Sep 09 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 09 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | those are google test | Sep 09 05:03 |
| _Hicham_ | u can't trust them | Sep 09 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, blame the benchmarks for Firefox dragging ass | Sep 09 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | and Futuremark, not Google | Sep 09 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 05:04 |
| _Hicham_ | speed is not everything | Sep 09 05:04 |
| _Hicham_ | how do u see Chromium vs Epiphany webkit ? | Sep 09 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | when Epiphany Webkit is officially released? | Sep 09 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | I still see it as having the advantage | Sep 09 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | official adblocking, not a port of a shitty Windows program | Sep 09 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | other reasons | Sep 09 05:06 |
| _Hicham_ | Chromium is faster | Sep 09 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | it's obvious Google doesn't know how to port applications | Sep 09 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | they got a team of Windows programmers to make a very Windows-centric application | Sep 09 05:06 |
| _Hicham_ | of course | Sep 09 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | then spread FUD about Linux and GTK+ being hard to develop for | Sep 09 05:06 |
| _Hicham_ | they didn't do that | Sep 09 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | yeah they did | Sep 09 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | no, just the technology differs | Sep 09 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | WTL is very different | Sep 09 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/67261.html | Sep 09 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | if u have ever worked in WTL u would know | Sep 09 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | "Linux is a server OS, only used on the desktop by enthusiasts," bonch added. "Accept it, because the kind of standardized APIs that are needed are not going to happen with the attitudes that this community has." | Sep 09 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | from WTL there is a long road | Sep 09 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | that's straight from the Chrome development team | Sep 09 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | APIs are standardized | Sep 09 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | Chrome is bullshit | Sep 09 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | high level APIs | Sep 09 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's also spyware | Sep 09 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not | Sep 09 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | Chromium is Open Source | Sep 09 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | Srware Iron disables the spyware in Chrome | Sep 09 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't use Chrome | Sep 09 05:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I use Chromium | Sep 09 05:09 |
| _Hicham_ | even when I was on Windows | Sep 09 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRWare_Iron | Sep 09 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRWare_Iron#Differences_from_Chrome | Sep 09 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | Chrome has no built in ad blocking, no privacy controls for cookies, and spies on the user on behalf of Google | Sep 09 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | sending back personally identifiable information | Sep 09 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | Google Chrome is really the same thing as Microsoft Internet Explorer | Sep 09 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | possibly worse | Sep 09 05:11 |
| _Hicham_ | because it is not Open Source | Sep 09 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | I was psyched about it too til I read what kind of privady invading shit it does | Sep 09 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | and realized there's just no good way to block ads and web parasites | Sep 09 05:11 |
| _Hicham_ | use Open Source version | Sep 09 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | cause Google would lose 5 cents | Sep 09 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | *privacy | Sep 09 05:11 |
| _Hicham_ | u r always stubborn | Sep 09 05:12 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u expect from a closed source app ? | Sep 09 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | Perhaps more to the point, "instead of accepting responsibility for their choice -- every choice comes with an opportunity cost -- they instead divert blame to the Linux platform, citing irrelevant points," Enderandrew explained. | Sep 09 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | Google is promoting Windows | Sep 09 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | and spreading anti-Linux FUD | Sep 09 05:12 |
| _Hicham_ | of course they are | Sep 09 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | in a lot of ways, Google is a very Windows centric company | Sep 09 05:13 |
| _Hicham_ | because it is hard to distribute linux programs | Sep 09 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | they have more in common with Microsoft than they compete | Sep 09 05:13 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the way to make money | Sep 09 05:13 |
| _Hicham_ | they can't concentrate on Linux | Sep 09 05:14 |
| _Hicham_ | because there is no money for them on Linux | Sep 09 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | in the past, they've ported applications to Linux by encapsulating the Windows version in an included copy of Wine | Sep 09 05:14 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux is on the server | Sep 09 05:14 |
| _Hicham_ | possible | Sep 09 05:14 |
| _Hicham_ | it is hard to make cross-platform optimized apps | Sep 09 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | you don't start by writing a program that uses every piece of Win32 | Sep 09 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | and then bitch about Linux | Sep 09 05:16 |
| _Hicham_ | if u want optimized programs for Windows, there is not a lot of alternatives | Sep 09 05:16 |
| _Hicham_ | and the choice they made is the best on Windows | Sep 09 05:16 |
| _Hicham_ | even though undocumented | Sep 09 05:16 |
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| twitter1 | me hardies! | Sep 09 05:18 |
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| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Chrome is really an attempt to harm Linux | Sep 09 05:20 |
| _Hicham_ | just compiled firefox-3.7a1pre | Sep 09 05:20 |
| _Hicham_ | it seems faster | Sep 09 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | Linux has plenty of web browsers, what it could do without is a company deliberately dragging out their port and cursing at Linux because of their own incompetence every step along the way | Sep 09 05:20 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not them being incompete | Sep 09 05:22 |
| _Hicham_ | there are priorities | Sep 09 05:22 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox has been demoted from my Favorites list :) | Sep 09 05:23 |
| DaemonFC | in favor of Epiphany | Sep 09 05:23 |
| twitter1 | chrome can no more kill gnu/linux than dillo can. | Sep 09 05:24 |
| _Hicham_ | hi twitter1 my friend | Sep 09 05:25 |
| twitter1 | :-* | Sep 09 05:25 |
| twitter1 | hold that thought _Hicham_ | Sep 09 05:26 |
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| _Hicham_ | Wow, Firefox-3.7 is linked with libnotify | Sep 09 05:29 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Sep 09 05:29 |
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| _Hicham_ | wb twitter1 | Sep 09 05:32 |
| twitter1 | what does "wb" mean? | Sep 09 05:34 |
| twitter1 | "Welcome Back" | Sep 09 05:34 |
| twitter1 | "Wild Beer"? | Sep 09 05:34 |
| twitter1 | "Wilder Beast" as in, she moaned like a wb? | Sep 09 05:35 |
| _Hicham_ | I gotta go eat sthg, I got a long fasting day in front of me | Sep 09 05:40 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : still doing tests ? | Sep 09 06:05 |
| _Hicham_ | on the peacekeeper front-page, Firefox is the fastest | Sep 09 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, playing with Galaxium | Sep 09 06:07 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 09 06:07 |
| _Hicham_ | mono apps again ? | Sep 09 06:09 |
| _Hicham_ | does it have webcam support ? | Sep 09 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | not yet | Sep 09 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | it's planned | Sep 09 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | the only thing supporting in the released version is MSN Messenger | Sep 09 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | the SVN version adds Jabber and IRC | Sep 09 06:12 |
| _Hicham_ | so there is mono in mint also ? | Sep 09 06:17 |
| _Hicham_ | this is ridiculous | Sep 09 06:17 |
| _Hicham_ | we have dozens of IM, no one is fully supporting audio and video | Sep 09 06:18 |
| _Hicham_ | there is experimental webcam support in aMSN though | Sep 09 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | my thoughts exactly | Sep 09 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | everyone is just reinventing the work already done | Sep 09 06:18 |
| _Hicham_ | instead of focusing on usability, they do diversity | Sep 09 06:19 |
| _Hicham_ | why offer diversity if nothing is satisfying | Sep 09 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | Galaxium is proceeding slowly because they're trying to do proper supports of all features in every network | Sep 09 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather have proper support for one network at a time than something that just kind of halfasses its way through everything | Sep 09 06:21 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 06:21 |
| _Hicham_ | it is mono based, which means a memory hog | Sep 09 06:21 |
| _Hicham_ | and lots of bugs | Sep 09 06:21 |
| _Hicham_ | did u test seamonkey 2.0 beta by the way ? | Sep 09 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | actually, it's quite responsive | Sep 09 06:22 |
| _Hicham_ | what is that? galaxium ? | Sep 09 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | who cares if Empathy uses 10 megs less RAM if it guts the program of all the features you use? | Sep 09 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 09 06:23 |
| _Hicham_ | Empathy is promoting telepathy framework | Sep 09 06:25 |
| DaemonFC | hell with it | Sep 09 06:25 |
| DaemonFC | if it doesn't work, I don't care if it doesn't use any RAM | Sep 09 06:25 |
| _Hicham_ | this means better desktop integration | Sep 09 06:25 |
| _Hicham_ | telepathy is a framework | Sep 09 06:25 |
| DaemonFC | I know | Sep 09 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | Empathy isn't very impressive | Sep 09 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's actually pissing me off worse than Pidgin, which is an accomplishment | Sep 09 06:29 |
| _Hicham_ | Empathy is just a client | Sep 09 06:29 |
| _Hicham_ | it lacks features in the UI | Sep 09 06:30 |
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| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Most websites support Firefox | Sep 09 06:33 |
| _Hicham_ | some websites even recommend Firefox over IE | Sep 09 06:33 |
| twitter1 | Pidgin does MSN, Skype does it's own thing and Ekiga is a free software video phone. -> _Hicham_: we have dozens of IM, no one is fully supporting audio and video | Sep 09 06:35 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : things were changing recently | Sep 09 06:36 |
| _Hicham_ | Empathy and Pidgin support Audio/Video on Jabber | Sep 09 06:36 |
| twitter1 | very cool, it's about time. | Sep 09 06:36 |
| _Hicham_ | aMSN have experimental Audio/Video chat for MSN | Sep 09 06:37 |
| twitter1 | Anything that works with M$ is doomed to pain and failure. My bets are on jabber. | Sep 09 06:37 |
| _Hicham_ | and twitter1 is here with us | Sep 09 06:37 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have a jabber account? | Sep 09 06:37 |
| _Hicham_ | we should have a room on Jabber too | Sep 09 06:37 |
| twitter1 | but anyone can go out and buy a $140 netbook that does skype video out of the box | Sep 09 06:38 |
| twitter1 | yes, I have jabber accounts. | Sep 09 06:38 |
| _Hicham_ | did u test Audio/Video ? | Sep 09 06:38 |
| twitter1 | not yet | Sep 09 06:38 |
| twitter1 | what version of pidgin does video? | Sep 09 06:38 |
| _Hicham_ | 2.6.2 | Sep 09 06:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what version do u have ? | Sep 09 06:39 |
| twitter1 | whatever is in Debian testing. | Sep 09 06:41 |
| twitter1 | http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/pidgin | Sep 09 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | Pidgin doesn't do video | Sep 09 06:43 |
| DaemonFC | I think they said something about video for Jabber or something | Sep 09 06:44 |
| DaemonFC | I don't use Jabber, I never have | Sep 09 06:44 |
| twitter1 | 2.6.1 from what I've read, Google's video support is Winblows only right now. | Sep 09 06:45 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u need an update | Sep 09 06:45 |
| twitter1 | Google really needs to get a gnu/linux clue. | Sep 09 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, it wouldn't be profitable | Sep 09 06:45 |
| twitter1 | Android not profitable..... | Sep 09 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | I'll bet you $50 that there's no official video chat support from Google for Linux | Sep 09 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | ever | Sep 09 06:46 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : go to about dialog, it should have sthg like enable-audio-video | Sep 09 06:46 |
| twitter1 | Keep your money DaemonFC. | Sep 09 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | well, there has to be a deadline for a bet | Sep 09 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | so 5 years | Sep 09 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | guarantee you they won't have it in the next 5 years | Sep 09 06:46 |
| twitter1 | Android will be doing video chat sooner than that. | Sep 09 06:47 |
| twitter1 | and android is gnu/linux | Sep 09 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, They're using Linux in their products | Sep 09 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't mean they support Linux | Sep 09 06:47 |
| twitter1 | I suppose Winblows video chat is a form of advertising. | Sep 09 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | just means it's a glob of code they can commandeer for their product | Sep 09 06:47 |
| twitter1 | The sooner they get people off Winblows, the better off they will be. | Sep 09 06:47 |
| twitter1 | Writing things for Winblows is a dead end for Google. | Sep 09 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | "Android uses Linux as its kernel,[90] but according to Google, it is not a conventional Linux distribution. It does not have a native X Window System, nor does it support the full set of standard GNU libraries like its system libraries (GNU C Library). This specific modification makes it difficult to reuse existing Linux applications or libraries on Android.[91]" | Sep 09 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | so the GNU/Linux spam really doesn't apply to Android | Sep 09 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, I've never been big on the GNU/Linux spam | Sep 09 06:49 |
| _Hicham_ | http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3206/screenshotco.png | Sep 09 06:49 |
| twitter1 | The checkmate for M$ and traditional telco is Open Spectrum. Google and M$ are hot on the trail of TV white spaces, but M$ will regret it. | Sep 09 06:49 |
| DaemonFC | if you want to spam for every project that's had a hand in a Linux distribution, you're gonna have a god awfully long name | Sep 09 06:49 |
| DaemonFC | cause GNU didn't even write more than 1/5th of the code in a typical Linux distro | Sep 09 06:49 |
| DaemonFC | they just want to tack onto the Linux bandwagon by pretending they can take credit for X, KDE, and everything else too | Sep 09 06:50 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : go take ur pill | Sep 09 06:50 |
| _Hicham_ | it is time for it | Sep 09 06:50 |
| twitter1 | no, just the compiler and other indispensable infrastructure. No one needs GNU. | Sep 09 06:50 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, There's no such thing as a GNU operating system | Sep 09 06:50 |
| twitter1 | just people who want working computers. | Sep 09 06:51 |
| _Hicham_ | GNU was the sparkle | Sep 09 06:51 |
| twitter1 | Hurd is one. | Sep 09 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | even if they ever did finish HURD, they'd still rely on tons of third party code like X and a desktop environment | Sep 09 06:51 |
| _Hicham_ | they don't need to do anything | Sep 09 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | sound systems | Sep 09 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | etc | Sep 09 06:51 |
| twitter1 | X is not part of an OS. M$ has confused you. | Sep 09 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | even if GNU finished HURD and shipped a system that worked, they still wouldn't have written more than 25% of the system | Sep 09 06:51 |
| _Hicham_ | nobody is talking about a GNU OS | Sep 09 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | so there is no GNU OS | Sep 09 06:52 |
| _Hicham_ | where did u read that ? | Sep 09 06:52 |
| _Hicham_ | GNU never said that they have an OS | Sep 09 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | by GNU's own fudged figures | Sep 09 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | they wrote about 20% of the code in a Linux disto | Sep 09 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | and Linux is about 1.5% | Sep 09 06:52 |
| _Hicham_ | nobody said that | Sep 09 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | so even if they did make a GNU OS, only about 21.5% or so would actually be GNU | Sep 09 06:53 |
| _Hicham_ | u r totally crazy | Sep 09 06:53 |
| _Hicham_ | who cares if it GNU or not ? | Sep 09 06:53 |
| twitter1 | I'm sure RMS would agree with Daemon and I'm equally sure his system is almost 100% GNU. | Sep 09 06:53 |
| _Hicham_ | as long as it is free ? | Sep 09 06:53 |
| DaemonFC | being exceedingly generous, they have only had a direct hand in about 1 in 5 lines of code in a Linux system, | Sep 09 06:53 |
| twitter1 | Freedom is the important bit. | Sep 09 06:53 |
| twitter1 | But it's all interdependent. | Sep 09 06:53 |
| DaemonFC | they want 50% of the credit for writing 20% of a working OS | Sep 09 06:54 |
| _Hicham_ | GNU or not is not important | Sep 09 06:54 |
| twitter1 | Show me a BSD that does not use GCC, for example. | Sep 09 06:54 |
| twitter1 | Even Sun uses GCC these days. | Sep 09 06:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Linus doesn't care about such things | Sep 09 06:54 |
| _Hicham_ | what matters is freedom | Sep 09 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | you don't need GCC to compile a Linux distribution | Sep 09 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | ICC can do it too | Sep 09 06:54 |
| twitter1 | lol | Sep 09 06:54 |
| _Hicham_ | have u tried ? | Sep 09 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | they want to act like they wrote the whole system even though you don't need any of their code to make an OS using Linux | Sep 09 06:55 |
| DaemonFC | Linux is the only defining point of a Linux system | Sep 09 06:56 |
| twitter1 | Anyway. Google's strategy with Android is to provide free, ubiquitous networking. | Sep 09 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | the rest of it either compiles and ships with every other POSIX system | Sep 09 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | or has alternatives | Sep 09 06:56 |
| twitter1 | They will have video phones and they will rout around damaged telco bandwith. | Sep 09 06:56 |
| twitter1 | They think they can earn billions in extra advertising revenue this way. | Sep 09 06:56 |
| twitter1 | and those billions will build a lot of towers. | Sep 09 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | they don't say whether they include GNOME in their figure anyway | Sep 09 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | if they did and you use KDE instead, who knows how much of the system they wrote? | Sep 09 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | 10% maybe? | Sep 09 06:57 |
| _Hicham_ | GNOME is GNU | Sep 09 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | KDE isn't | Sep 09 06:58 |
| _Hicham_ | Gnu Network Object Model Environment | Sep 09 06:58 |
| DaemonFC | so I don't think they can just throw GNOME into their figure | Sep 09 06:58 |
| _Hicham_ | KDE is separate | Sep 09 06:58 |
| DaemonFC | because it's not guaranteed to be part of the installed system | Sep 09 06:58 |
| _Hicham_ | what if Hurd is complete ? | Sep 09 06:58 |
| twitter1 | hurd is working. | Sep 09 06:58 |
| _Hicham_ | wouldn't it be a GNU OS ? | Sep 09 06:58 |
| DaemonFC | if HURD is complete and they make a GNU/HURD OS with no X Server or desktop environment | Sep 09 06:59 |
| twitter1 | You can get gnu/hurd from debian now. | Sep 09 06:59 |
| _Hicham_ | he seems to ignore that | Sep 09 06:59 |
| DaemonFC | then it is a GNU OS | Sep 09 06:59 |
| DaemonFC | as long as it is either overwhelmingly their code, or 100% their code, it can be called GNU OS | Sep 09 06:59 |
| _Hicham_ | so the missing bit is X ? | Sep 09 06:59 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 09 06:59 | |
| _Hicham_ | u r completely insane | Sep 09 06:59 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Taking 50% credit for writing 10-20% of the system is bullshit | Sep 09 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | it really is | Sep 09 07:00 |
| twitter1 | I think you have made your point by now, FC. | Sep 09 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | they want to belittle the various people that wrote the other 80-90% of the system | Sep 09 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | and make theirs look like it's more important | Sep 09 07:00 |
| twitter1 | No one believes it and repeating it is not helping. | Sep 09 07:00 |
| _Hicham_ | as I told u, u need ur pill | Sep 09 07:01 |
| _Hicham_ | otherwise u will start kicking urself | Sep 09 07:01 |
| DaemonFC | the only way GNU/Linux exists is as part of a spam campaign | Sep 09 07:01 |
| _Hicham_ | go take ur pill | Sep 09 07:01 |
| twitter1 | spam? | Sep 09 07:01 |
| _Hicham_ | come on, don't waste time | Sep 09 07:01 |
| twitter1 | the FSF is a spammer? | Sep 09 07:01 |
| _Hicham_ | go go go | Sep 09 07:01 |
| DaemonFC | or as GNU/X.org/KDE/Linux perhaps | Sep 09 07:01 |
| DaemonFC | maybe we should call it Mandriva GNU/X.org/KDE/Linux | Sep 09 07:01 |
| twitter1 | gnu/DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:02 |
| DaemonFC | or maybe we should just peg everyone into the name that wrote part of the code that's in the system | Sep 09 07:02 |
| twitter1 | an GNU Daemon would be nice. The old one is repetitive. | Sep 09 07:02 |
| DaemonFC | don't stop til they have to cover the front, back, and both sides of the box with who wrote the OS | Sep 09 07:02 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 09 07:02 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonGNU | Sep 09 07:03 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@121.45.212.182) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 07:04 | |
| _Hicham_ | remove all the binutils if u don't like GNU | Sep 09 07:04 |
| _Hicham_ | recompile the kernel without gcc | Sep 09 07:04 |
| _Hicham_ | and do not use GTK apps | Sep 09 07:04 |
| DaemonFC | "Some people object that the name "Linux" should be used to refer only to the kernel, not the entire operating system. This claim is a proxy for an underlying territorial dispute; people who insist on the term GNU/Linux want the FSF to get most of the credit for Linux because [Stallman] and friends wrote many of its user-level tools. Neither this theory nor the term GNU/Linux has gained more than minority acceptance." | Sep 09 07:05 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy#Opinions_supporting_.22Linux.22 | Sep 09 07:05 |
| DaemonFC | "Well, I think it's justified, but it's justified if you actually make a GNU distribution of Linux ... " - Linus Torvalds | Sep 09 07:05 |
| twitter1 | Don't be dissing minorities, Daemon. | Sep 09 07:06 |
| DaemonFC | now that's a good one | Sep 09 07:06 |
| twitter1 | there is GNUSense | Sep 09 07:06 |
| DaemonFC | "because if you actually make your own distribution of Linux, you get to name the thing, but calling Linux in general "GNU Linux" I think is just ridiculous." | Sep 09 07:06 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : forgive him the poor, he doesn't have money for the pill | Sep 09 07:07 |
| twitter1 | Debian calls itself GNU/Linux when it's not using hurd, bsd or solaris. | Sep 09 07:07 |
| twitter1 | What do Fedora and Red Hat call themselves? | Sep 09 07:07 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : here is a new one : DaemonFC you shill, go take ur pill | Sep 09 07:07 |
| DaemonFC | Debian named their Linux distribution | Sep 09 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | they have the right | Sep 09 07:08 |
| twitter1 | Debian and derivatives make up more than half of the "Linux" world. | Sep 09 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | if I want to make a Linux distribution and pander to the marketing spam, that's my right | Sep 09 07:08 |
| _Hicham_ | I make up the other half | Sep 09 07:08 |
| twitter1 | So, that's clearly more than a "minority" opinion of the participants. | Sep 09 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, Naw | Sep 09 07:08 |
| _Hicham_ | u can't even do ur homework | Sep 09 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | Debian's opinion | Sep 09 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | and their opinion does not necessarily represent their own users | Sep 09 07:09 |
| twitter1 | I'm not sure about your "right" to rename Linux. Linus has a trademark. | Sep 09 07:09 |
| DaemonFC | much less users of Debian forks | Sep 09 07:09 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu's name does not include the GNU/Linux spam | Sep 09 07:09 |
| DaemonFC | they are Ubuntu Linux | Sep 09 07:09 |
| twitter1 | DeamonFC's opinion is pretty much DeamonFC's opinion. | Sep 09 07:09 |
| DaemonFC | Linux Mint is not GNU/Linux Mint | Sep 09 07:10 |
| DaemonFC | personally I doubt they even want to lend credence to the silly ideas of a few | Sep 09 07:10 |
| DaemonFC | in fact, I don't even think Ubuntu has Linux in it's official name, I think the entire OS is just names Ubuntu | Sep 09 07:12 |
| DaemonFC | and it's taken for granted that Linux is a part of Ubuntu | Sep 09 07:12 |
| DaemonFC | *named | Sep 09 07:12 |
| *RZC (n=rzcashma@c-98-199-82-161.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 07:13 | |
| DaemonFC | so, in desperation, GNU rigged their uname utility to report GNU/Linux, whatever | Sep 09 07:13 |
| DaemonFC | I still think it's petty and retarded | Sep 09 07:13 |
| RZC | Hi all. | Sep 09 07:13 |
| RZC | Roy, are you awake? | Sep 09 07:14 |
| *DaemonFC renames twitter1 to everyone who has every contributed to his DNA in all of history separated with a backslash each time | Sep 09 07:15 | |
| DaemonFC | it'll be interesting when he goes to sign something, but it's the only proper way | Sep 09 07:15 |
| DaemonFC | *ever | Sep 09 07:15 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC DaemonFC | Sep 09 07:17 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:19 |
| *DaemonFC thinks that _Hicham_ is Tom Cruise Crazy' | Sep 09 07:19 | |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:20 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J9KRZ0PnAs | Sep 09 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | nyaaah | Sep 09 07:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill Go Take Your Pill | Sep 09 07:21 |
| twitter1 | stop | Sep 09 07:22 |
| _Hicham_ | this is better than what he was writing | Sep 09 07:22 |
| _Hicham_ | he was repeating the same old stuff when he enters in crisis | Sep 09 07:23 |
| twitter1 | He mentioned Ubuntu, a commercial distribution that reflects the feelings of it's users even less than Debain does. In fact, it's hard to think of a software distribution that more clearly reflects the will of users than Debian. | Sep 09 07:27 |
| twitter1 | Ubuntu mostly reflects the will of Mark Shuttleworth, who calls it "Linux" http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/146 | Sep 09 07:27 |
| RZC | hey all again... anyone have familiarity with VirtualBox? | Sep 09 07:28 |
| twitter1 | not much. | Sep 09 07:29 |
| twitter1 | I made it run a liveCD once. | Sep 09 07:29 |
| _Hicham_ | RZC : what is up ? | Sep 09 07:29 |
| twitter1 | it's funny, when you search Shuttleworth's blog, everyone but him uses the term "gnu/linux" . People in the comments and people interviewing him all say this but Shuttleworth stubbornly calls the whole OS it's kernel. | Sep 09 07:30 |
| RZC | I'm trying to figure out whether I can copy my guest OS XP.vmdk over to its own partition and boot it up from there. I'm taking an exam with my laptop and it needs XP software on it... Running linux with VirtualBox will freak out the test takers. | Sep 09 07:30 |
| twitter1 | the same thing seems to be true of Fedora, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=fedora+gnu%2Flinux&aq=f&oq=&aqi= | Sep 09 07:31 |
| _Hicham_ | RZC : copy the files to a shared folder, copy the contents to the first primary partition, recreate the mbr, and ur done | Sep 09 07:32 |
| RZC | I don't need to use a Vboxmgr clone command? | Sep 09 07:33 |
| _Hicham_ | u want to run XP natively if i did understand ? | Sep 09 07:34 |
| RZC | yep, but XP is already set up in a .vmdk VirtualBox file. | Sep 09 07:34 |
| RZC | Yes, I want to dual-boot directly into the XP partition that I'd be setting up. | Sep 09 07:35 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no other way, u have to extract the files off the vmdk | Sep 09 07:37 |
| _Hicham_ | that wouldn't take more than half an hour | Sep 09 07:38 |
| RZC | will it boot? | Sep 09 07:39 |
| _Hicham_ | RZC : u will have to use WinXP CD | Sep 09 07:40 |
| RZC | (the vmdk XP guest OS was installed and configured in Virtualbox). | Sep 09 07:40 |
| RZC | what would I need the CD for? | Sep 09 07:40 |
| RZC | the mbr? | Sep 09 07:40 |
| _Hicham_ | and u should copy the contents to the first primary partition | Sep 09 07:40 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, the mbr | Sep 09 07:40 |
| _Hicham_ | *the first primary partition* | Sep 09 07:41 |
| RZC | Ubuntu is on the first primary partition. This would be on the third. | Sep 09 07:41 |
| RZC | I suppose I can move the partitions around with gparted. It's really that important? | Sep 09 07:41 |
| RZC | ...that XP be on the first partition? | Sep 09 07:41 |
| _Hicham_ | RZC : the first primary partition should have a Windows compatible filesystem | Sep 09 07:43 |
| _Hicham_ | why not run XP virtualized ? | Sep 09 07:43 |
| _Hicham_ | is it that important to have it in native ? | Sep 09 07:43 |
| twitter1 | ha ha, CNet picked up the M$ training for Best Buy employees, " Microsoft mis-educates Best Buy on Linux" http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10346669-62.html | Sep 09 07:44 |
| twitter1 | not very well informed author, " Netbooks and laptops, a space in which Linux has feature parity, if a lack of interest from consumers. " | Sep 09 07:45 |
| twitter1 | no one is interested in saving $50 on a $300 computer while getting better performance with gnu/linux? | Sep 09 07:46 |
| twitter1 | "feature parity" please! | Sep 09 07:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu preloaded dell notebooks are more expensive than those with Windows | Sep 09 07:46 |
| RZC | I'm taking a standardized exam using the laptop, and booting XP from Ubuntu will freak out the examiners. | Sep 09 07:47 |
| twitter1 | if you have to use XP, the exam is not very standardized. | Sep 09 07:47 |
| RZC | I don't want to raise any suspicions of cheating, etc., so I'm just setting up a native Windows to run for the exam... | Sep 09 07:47 |
| twitter1 | I'm surprised they let you use your own laptop at all. | Sep 09 07:47 |
| RZC | hehe yeah, the exam is XP, and I'm paying an extra fee to use my own laptop. | Sep 09 07:48 |
| RZC | anyway, I figured that Virtualbox is taking up the space anyway, so why not just move THAT .vmdk to its own partition to boot natively (unless you know of a way to boot directly into a .vmdk)...? | Sep 09 07:49 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : good one | Sep 09 07:49 |
| twitter1 | Ina Fried shill does sad damage control for M$, basically claiming Windows 7 is secure because one or two bugs only BSoD all other versions of Windows. | Sep 09 07:50 |
| twitter1 | -> Microsoft issued a formal security advisory late Tuesday on a reported zero-day flaw in Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008. However, the software maker also said that the flaw does not affect the final version of Windows 7, contrary to earlier reports. | Sep 09 07:50 |
| _Hicham_ | the OS I am planning to release is more secure | Sep 09 07:50 |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 07:51 | |
| twitter1 | but then, -> Microsoft is already dealing with a separate, still unpatched flaw reported last week. Attacks have already been seen based on that vulnerability. Microsoft has taken issue with the fact that that flaw, like the latest one, was reported publicly | Sep 09 07:51 |
| _Hicham_ | holy Vista | Sep 09 07:51 |
| twitter1 | Windows 7 is holy Vista | Sep 09 07:52 |
| _Hicham_ | why don't u like Windows ? | Sep 09 07:52 |
| _Hicham_ | it is helping us | Sep 09 07:52 |
| MinceR | we need to be helped because of windows in the first place | Sep 09 07:52 |
| _Hicham_ | can u rob a bank if it is running a fortified Linux or BSD ? | Sep 09 07:52 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Sep 09 07:52 |
| twitter1 | I hate Windows because I had to use it. | Sep 09 07:52 |
| twitter1 | and still have to use it. | Sep 09 07:52 |
| MinceR | do i rob banks? | Sep 09 07:52 |
| _Hicham_ | but if they are running Windows u could | Sep 09 07:52 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : u do | Sep 09 07:52 |
| MinceR | no, i don't | Sep 09 07:53 |
| twitter1 | please do not rob banks | Sep 09 07:53 |
| RZC | alright, gnight | Sep 09 07:53 |
| twitter1 | there are enough people already doing that | Sep 09 07:53 |
| MinceR | not yet, anyway | Sep 09 07:53 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 the bank robber | Sep 09 07:53 |
| *RZC has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 09 07:53 | |
| _Hicham_ | always looking at the browser throbber | Sep 09 07:53 |
| _Hicham_ | never spend a night sober | Sep 09 07:53 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : big hug to u as always | Sep 09 07:58 |
| twitter1 | thanks _Hicham_, I needed that | Sep 09 07:59 |
| twitter1 | Vista 7 bugs reported in USA Today... http://blogs.usatoday.com/technologylive/2009/09/new-security-flaws-unmasked-in-vista-windows-7.html | Sep 09 08:00 |
| twitter1 | slap. | Sep 09 08:00 |
| _Hicham_ | Ok, I am gonna use Vista then | Sep 09 08:02 |
| _Hicham_ | since it is now secure | Sep 09 08:02 |
| twitter1 | Everytime I see the Vista button scheme, I can't help but think how ugly it is. | Sep 09 08:02 |
| _Hicham_ | Vista stolen its UI from GNOM | Sep 09 08:02 |
| _Hicham_ | *GNOME | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | Most GNU/Linux looks better by far than their stuff does. Every piece of it. | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | the fonts. | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | the icons | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | the borders and buttons. | Sep 09 08:03 |
| _Hicham_ | I have a cool font from openSUSE | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | Vista is a mess. | Sep 09 08:03 |
| _Hicham_ | Fifth-Leg font | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | here's an example http://lifehacker.com/5354879/disable-the-new-libraries-feature-on-windows-7 | Sep 09 08:03 |
| twitter1 | look how screwed up that dialog is | Sep 09 08:04 |
| twitter1 | wtf are "libraries"? It sounds like symlinks. | Sep 09 08:05 |
| twitter1 | "underhyped" lol | Sep 09 08:05 |
| twitter1 | yes, they are talking about symlinks. http://lifehacker.com/5254211/windows-7s-best-underhyped-features | Sep 09 08:07 |
| _Hicham_ | some system location to frustrate the users more | Sep 09 08:07 |
| *Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@68.238.49.173) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 08:07 | |
| _Hicham_ | Windows do not have symlinks | Sep 09 08:08 |
| _Hicham_ | did u use Windows 7 ? | Sep 09 08:08 |
| twitter1 | I thought NTFS had them, my bad. | Sep 09 08:08 |
| twitter1 | No. I do not use Windows, except at work where I'd never touch a thing. | Sep 09 08:08 |
| twitter1 | funny the lengths they have to go to just to share. | Sep 09 08:09 |
| twitter1 | Konq gives you three options when you drag files, "move, copy, link" | Sep 09 08:10 |
| twitter1 | chose "link" for /home/user/public_html .... tada, I've created a "library" | Sep 09 08:11 |
| twitter1 | with grsync, I can sync my "library" wherever I decide to create it. | Sep 09 08:11 |
| twitter1 | Windows is simply hostile to sharing and user organization | Sep 09 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | NTFS does have symlinks | Sep 09 08:12 |
| twitter1 | They still depend on file extensions but hide them.... ugh. | Sep 09 08:12 |
| twitter1 | but Windows don't use them, right? | Sep 09 08:12 |
| twitter1 | ha ha. | Sep 09 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_symbolic_link | Sep 09 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | they were added to facilitate Services For UNIX Applications | Sep 09 08:13 |
| twitter1 | I hate how their file manager copies or moves things without asking you based on what kind of freaking device you drag to. | Sep 09 08:13 |
| twitter1 | -> I'm using Dropbox to sync my files across multiple computers—including a subset of my music collection. Rather than trying to use hacks to sync directories outside my DropBox folder or dropping to the command-line to create some symlinks, it was as simple as adding my Dropbox music collection folder to the Music library. | Sep 09 08:14 |
| twitter1 | "dropping to the command line" in Windows is quite a painful fall. | Sep 09 08:14 |
| DaemonFC | the NTFS symlinks don't work right on the Home editions of Windows but you can create them | Sep 09 08:14 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : can't u use KDE on Windows ? | Sep 09 08:14 |
| twitter1 | no, I don't own a copy of Windows | Sep 09 08:15 |
| DaemonFC | you can use some tools from Windows 2003 server to help with that though | Sep 09 08:15 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, You can use KDE applications on Windows | Sep 09 08:15 |
| twitter1 | I don't expect KDE to work on Windows anyway. | Sep 09 08:15 |
| twitter1 | think it's a big waste of effort | Sep 09 08:15 |
| DaemonFC | not KDE itself, directly anyway | Sep 09 08:15 |
| DaemonFC | you can compile KDE through SUA or Cygwin and replace Explorer with it | Sep 09 08:15 |
| twitter1 | M$ will screw it up | Sep 09 08:15 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1: They never have before | Sep 09 08:16 |
| twitter1 | Why would I go through all that trouble when I could just install a decent OS in 15 minutes. | Sep 09 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | plenty of alternate shells have been made for or ported to Windows | Sep 09 08:16 |
| twitter1 | M$ is infamous for sabotaging "competition" | Sep 09 08:16 |
| twitter1 | It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of how often and how badly. | Sep 09 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | Show me where they have every stopped anyone from using their own shell | Sep 09 08:17 |
| twitter1 | Just look at iTunes or Netscape. | Sep 09 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | *ever | Sep 09 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | iTunes sabotages Windows due to poor design | Sep 09 08:17 |
| twitter1 | If Apple and Netscape can't escape their malice, no one can. | Sep 09 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | that's Apple's fault | Sep 09 08:17 |
| twitter1 | yeah, right. | Sep 09 08:17 |
| twitter1 | Apple wants it's Windows users to have a bad time. Ha. | Sep 09 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | Apple makes shitty blaoted software that fucks around with parts of the system it has no business interfering with | Sep 09 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | they make inferior software | Sep 09 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | and when it breaks Windows, they blame Windows | Sep 09 08:18 |
| twitter1 | Apple so wants to sabotage M$ that Office on Mac must be a horror. | Sep 09 08:18 |
| twitter1 | The only thing all the broken Windows applications have in common is Windows. | Sep 09 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | it's not Microsoft's fault that Apple can't do a proper port | Sep 09 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | Apple insists on bringing in 20 layers of unrelated garbage | Sep 09 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | every time you install something of theirs | Sep 09 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | it's ridiculous, it's not that they're making bad Windows software, it's that they're making bad ports of bad Mac OS X software | Sep 09 08:20 |
| twitter1 | Every non free software writer has to treat non free OS like a weary stranger and bring in their own kit. | Sep 09 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | not true | Sep 09 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | Apple has the resources and the people to make a proper Windows program | Sep 09 08:20 |
| twitter1 | Windows lacks decent time keeping, network stack, so many things | Sep 09 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | they very much choose not to | Sep 09 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | Apple is arrogant | Sep 09 08:20 |
| twitter1 | every time you use something from Bill, you put yourself at his mercy. | Sep 09 08:21 |
| DaemonFC | use Apple programs on Windows, look at what they do | Sep 09 08:21 |
| DaemonFC | they add system services | Sep 09 08:21 |
| DaemonFC | itnerfere with the system startup sequence | Sep 09 08:22 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 08:22 | |
| twitter1 | these are non free software problems. | Sep 09 08:22 |
| DaemonFC | and install 3 or 4 unrelated applications behind your back that you did not request | Sep 09 08:22 |
| twitter1 | Adobe has them too | Sep 09 08:22 |
| twitter1 | it's all a game of screwing the user to them | Sep 09 08:22 |
| DaemonFC | I've never had those kinds of problems with any software on Windows other than Apple's | Sep 09 08:22 |
| DaemonFC | Apple's software is more like something you'd get from a far east spyware vendor | Sep 09 08:23 |
| twitter1 | WGA | Sep 09 08:23 |
| twitter1 | Windows Update | Sep 09 08:23 |
| twitter1 | it's all shit. | Sep 09 08:23 |
| DaemonFC | Apple has very few software engineers that have any idea what they're doing | Sep 09 08:23 |
| MinceR | crApple has engineers? | Sep 09 08:23 |
| MinceR | what do they use them for? cleaning the toilets? | Sep 09 08:24 |
| DaemonFC | Webkit is about the only project they haven't totally fucked up beyond recognition | Sep 09 08:24 |
| twitter1 | DaemonFC will teach Woz to build computers. | Sep 09 08:24 |
| twitter1 | "do it the M$ way, Woz" | Sep 09 08:24 |
| MinceR | is Woz worthy of attention at all? | Sep 09 08:24 |
| twitter1 | no, he's busy cleaning toilets | Sep 09 08:24 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, just because I don't subscribe to your spam and outright nonsensical hatred doesn't mean I like Microsfot | Sep 09 08:25 |
| DaemonFC | *Microsoft | Sep 09 08:25 |
| MinceR | the m$ way of building computers is what led to xbox360 :> | Sep 09 08:25 |
| twitter1 | Zune | Sep 09 08:25 |
| twitter1 | Squirt, ewwww! | Sep 09 08:25 |
| MinceR | did zunes die, too? | Sep 09 08:25 |
| twitter1 | I don't know. Have you seen one in person latley? | Sep 09 08:25 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Zune isn't going anywhere | Sep 09 08:25 |
| twitter1 | yeah, they sit in stores | Sep 09 08:26 |
| DaemonFC | it's one of those things that Microsoft has the cash to subsidize for years without turning profits | Sep 09 08:26 |
| MinceR | i mean the hardware, like RROD in xbox360-s | Sep 09 08:26 |
| twitter1 | they have done that already ... | Sep 09 08:26 |
| DaemonFC | you think they're in every Walmart because they're selling? | Sep 09 08:26 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft COMPENSATES Walmart for the loss of sales in that shelf space | Sep 09 08:26 |
| twitter1 | I don't think they are selling. | Sep 09 08:26 |
| DaemonFC | just to keep Zune on the shelf | Sep 09 08:26 |
| twitter1 | lovely. | Sep 09 08:26 |
| twitter1 | looks so nice there burning M$ money. | Sep 09 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart is making money on the Zune without selling enough of them to make money from selling them | Sep 09 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | it's actually pretty funny | Sep 09 08:27 |
| twitter1 | it's called dumping and it's against the law | Sep 09 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, No, it's not dumping | Sep 09 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | dumping would be selling them impossibly cheap | Sep 09 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, If Microsoft was selling the Zune for $20 just so that nobody else could ever get any sales, that would be the definition of dumping | Sep 09 08:28 |
| twitter1 | yes, they use their profits from their OS monopoly to subsidize an attack on an unrelated market, that's the textbook definition of predatory pricing, aka "dumping" | Sep 09 08:28 |
| MinceR | well, one could argue that they're renting zunes out to wal-mart impossibly cheap | Sep 09 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | foreign manufacturers dump inferior products in the USA all the time | Sep 09 08:28 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 09 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | where's the anti-dumping laws then? | Sep 09 08:28 |
| twitter1 | someone at the US DOJ put those laws under a rock. | Sep 09 08:29 |
| MinceR | just like antitrust laws | Sep 09 08:29 |
| MinceR | and of course most of the constitution :> | Sep 09 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, twitter1, Zune is a payola scheme | Sep 09 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | not a dumping operation | Sep 09 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | get your organized crime straight :) | Sep 09 08:30 |
| twitter1 | it is both | Sep 09 08:30 |
| twitter1 | and no one wants it | Sep 09 08:30 |
| twitter1 | music rental programs, so sad. | Sep 09 08:30 |
| twitter1 | Zune is their poster child. | Sep 09 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | it's not dumping because they're not setting the prices below cost just to run others out of the business | Sep 09 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | it *is* payola because they're paying for shelf space to stifle competition | Sep 09 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | but retail payola isn't new | Sep 09 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | Tide laundry detergent is also a payola system | Sep 09 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | they pay for shelf space and they make 20 varieties of Tide | Sep 09 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | it's a kind of area denial | Sep 09 08:32 |
| twitter1 | Even you, DaemonFC, say that M$ subsidizes Zune. That's dumping. | Sep 09 08:32 |
| twitter1 | The price of Tide includes the shelf space fees. | Sep 09 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | no, they subsidize through payola, not dumping | Sep 09 08:32 |
| twitter1 | Zune does not. | Sep 09 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | dumping is price manipulations, payola is pay to play | Sep 09 08:32 |
| twitter1 | they pay that from Winblows money. | Sep 09 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | right, they're running the payola scheme with money from profitable divisions | Sep 09 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | just like the old RIAA payola system where they paid radio stations for airtime | Sep 09 08:33 |
| twitter1 | Except the business as a whole is no longer profitable. | Sep 09 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | out of their record sales profits | Sep 09 08:33 |
| twitter1 | look at the $40 billion dollar cash pile they burn in less than five years. | Sep 09 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, They've overextended themselves | Sep 09 08:34 |
| twitter1 | now they fire employees and go into debt | Sep 09 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | they've eaten too much of a loss on Zune and XBOX and other minor unprofitable divisions | Sep 09 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | more than they figured on | Sep 09 08:34 |
| twitter1 | yes, so they were not really able to subsidize Zune and Xbox after all, were they? | Sep 09 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, It's like a momentum | Sep 09 08:34 |
| twitter1 | and so Zune and Xbox will soon meet a long delayed death or the company as a whole will. | Sep 09 08:35 |
| DaemonFC | they're still trying to push Zune because they still hope that they can turn it around and they've already paid the expense of launching it and designing it and manufacturing it | Sep 09 08:35 |
| twitter1 | there's no momentum behind Zune, Xbox or Windows. | Sep 09 08:35 |
| DaemonFC | it's like passing a point of no return | Sep 09 08:35 |
| twitter1 | They are in free fall. | Sep 09 08:35 |
| twitter1 | "Death spiral" as they like to call it. | Sep 09 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | death spiral? I doubt it | Sep 09 08:36 |
| twitter1 | Vista | Sep 09 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | they'll be much smaller before this is over though | Sep 09 08:36 |
| twitter1 | they took six years to make Vista | Sep 09 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | they need to jettison dead weight divisions and use the money they get in the fire sale for core business expenses | Sep 09 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | that's what you see happening now | Sep 09 08:37 |
| twitter1 | it failed, so they have to fire people. Do you think they can fix Vista in two years with fewer employees? | Sep 09 08:37 |
| twitter1 | the forces of their collapse are out of control | Sep 09 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, They're shuttering and selling the "garrison" units they have out on the frontier | Sep 09 08:37 |
| twitter1 | it is a death spiral. | Sep 09 08:37 |
| twitter1 | they lose employees and are unable to fix what ails them. | Sep 09 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | it's like a point where an empire stops expanding and starts contracting, but it's still not too late to maybe fix it | Sep 09 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | depends on how long they let themselves think that the Zune has a chance | Sep 09 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | and how many more XBOX 360s break down | Sep 09 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | if I was them I'd go ahead and axe the Zune right now | Sep 09 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | probably not the XBOX 360 though, but reliability would need to be improved | Sep 09 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | at least to last (on average) past the span of the warranty | Sep 09 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | they currently have that set at three years I believe | Sep 09 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | there's no reason why they couldn't commit to price reduction and reliability improvement at the same time | Sep 09 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | Ballmer is too much of a loose cannon, someone needs to 86 him before he does anymore damage | Sep 09 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | the board should put it to a vote to fire and replace him | Sep 09 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | it would be better to just get that over with now rather than later | Sep 09 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | if he does more damage, there will be a shareholder initiative that gets rid of him, and maybe even some of the board | Sep 09 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | actually, the time to get rid of Ballmer was last year when he started talking about a Yahoo deal | Sep 09 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | Bing is not catching on but it is racking up debt and giving them another failed unit to put down later | Sep 09 08:46 |
| twitter1 | Firing Ballmer won't fix M$. | Sep 09 08:46 |
| twitter1 | All of the problems will still be there. | Sep 09 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | ballmer actually did microsoft good | Sep 09 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/177490.asp | Sep 09 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | he went to buy yahoo | Sep 09 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | he didnt | Sep 09 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | yahoo stock price dropped in half | Sep 09 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | then he bought yahoo | Sep 09 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | When the Seattle PI starts attacking Bing, you know it's already a failure | Sep 09 08:47 |
| twitter1 | it's hotmail all over again. | Sep 09 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | it's not even winning over IE users and it's the default search engine | Sep 09 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont know why microsoft just doesn't partner with google | Sep 09 08:47 |
| twitter1 | it's easy to see why google won't partner with M$ | Sep 09 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | OH WAIT, THAT'D MAKE SENSE, NEVERMIND | Sep 09 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think web applications are the future | Sep 09 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | twitter1: google never said no | Sep 09 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft never asked. | Sep 09 08:48 |
| twitter1 | there's a long line of corpses that said yes | Sep 09 08:48 |
| twitter1 | Google's smarter than that | Sep 09 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | web applications are something Microsoft and the FSF both have reasons to hate | Sep 09 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | google is bigger than microsoft | Sep 09 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | if anything, microsoft would be the corpse | Sep 09 08:48 |
| twitter1 | M$ is going to be corpse anyway. | Sep 09 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: web applications are not your enemy | Sep 09 08:49 |
| twitter1 | They way M$ did ASP, yes they were the enemy. | Sep 09 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | because web apps don't just have the potential to make Windows irrelevant, but also, they're obfuscated and can reduce "GNU/Linux" to just a platform to boot the computer to run more nonfree software | Sep 09 08:49 |
| *AlanBell (n=alan@80.68.93.145) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 09 08:49 | |
| DaemonFC | so they both have good reasons to be trying to kill web apps | Sep 09 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | linux _is_ a platform to run software | Sep 09 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | it always has been | Sep 09 08:49 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-194-147.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 08:49 | |
| DaemonFC | right, but it's jsut such a slap in the face to "software freedom" | Sep 09 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | software freedom is also the freedom to not choose free software | Sep 09 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | it's like using the FSF's software as a platform to run exclusively nonfree software | Sep 09 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | it's an irony is what it will be | Sep 09 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | RMS's fanaticism is a slippery slope | Sep 09 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | the user must be free to run whatever he wants, period | Sep 09 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | the FSF has, ironically, created the ideal platform to run nonfree software | Sep 09 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no | Sep 09 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | the FSF hasnt | Sep 09 08:51 |
| *jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 09 08:51 | |
| Diablo-D3 | linux is not the ideal OS | Sep 09 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | linux isnt even theirs to begin with | Sep 09 08:51 |
| twitter1 | What Bing shows is that given a choice, M$ loses. | Sep 09 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | because all of a sudden, the CEO of BIG EVIL Co. can take their software, not pay anything to use it, and tie it into his nonfree web apps | Sep 09 08:51 |
| MinceR | "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy | Sep 09 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | twitter1: well, if bing actually provided useful results, even I'd use it | Sep 09 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: it leads to locking out closed source software | Sep 09 08:51 |
| twitter1 | It won't. | Sep 09 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is also bad | Sep 09 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | Bing is jsut as bad as Live Search | Sep 09 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | in some cases, worse | Sep 09 08:52 |
| MinceR | and a non-free OS doesn't guarantee the user to be free to run whatever he wants | Sep 09 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | bing _is_ live search | Sep 09 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | its the same product | Sep 09 08:52 |
| MinceR | bingo is just m$n search/live search rebranded for the second time | Sep 09 08:52 |
| twitter1 | oh well | Sep 09 08:52 |
| MinceR | (or more?) | Sep 09 08:52 |
| twitter1 | bong. | Sep 09 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: I think third | Sep 09 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | it was something else before msn/live search | Sep 09 08:52 |
| twitter1 | the vista bong 7 | Sep 09 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | hah | Sep 09 08:52 |
| twitter1 | 7ista Bong | Sep 09 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd buy that | Sep 09 08:52 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: i don't remember RMS wanting to lock out nonfree software | Sep 09 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: he basically does | Sep 09 08:53 |
| MinceR | just wanting to make sure that you can do everything you want without it | Sep 09 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | but cant figure out a way to do it without pissing off the largest FSF donators | Sep 09 08:53 |
| twitter1 | RMS wants people to have freedom | Sep 09 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | freedom also includes the right to use closed source software | Sep 09 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | RMS and his ilk sometimes forget this | Sep 09 08:53 |
| twitter1 | does freedom include the right to buy slaves? | Sep 09 08:53 |
| *proteus has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 08:54 | |
| twitter1 | or sell yourself into bondage? | Sep 09 08:54 |
| twitter1 | to rob, rape and pillage? | Sep 09 08:54 |
| twitter1 | no, there are limits to freedom. | Sep 09 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | but twitter, I _can_ buy slaves | Sep 09 08:54 |
| twitter1 | where your actions harm others, society protects itself | Sep 09 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | if I had a basement, I would surely have a hot asian locked up in it | Sep 09 08:55 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 09 08:55 | |
| twitter1 | no one is safe in a society that allows it's members to be mistreated | Sep 09 08:55 |
| twitter1 | non free software is wrong in many ways | Sep 09 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, It's funny you should say that | Sep 09 08:55 |
| twitter1 | you are easily amused, I like that | Sep 09 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | people are not predisposed to doing the right thing without tangible benefits for themselves | Sep 09 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes an ego boost is enough | Sep 09 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | usually it manifests itself in sex or money | Sep 09 08:56 |
| twitter1 | where free market forces fail to protect the public interest, a reasonable public makes laws to protect itself. | Sep 09 08:57 |
| twitter1 | there are minimum wages | Sep 09 08:57 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, So you prefer forcing people to use Linux and free software, even if they don't want it, by edict? | Sep 09 08:57 |
| twitter1 | I'd rather start by eliminating government protection of non free software. | Sep 09 08:58 |
| twitter1 | It is easier to eliminate it that way. | Sep 09 08:58 |
| twitter1 | Software patents | Sep 09 08:58 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, So in a free market where you lose, the market is rigged? | Sep 09 08:58 |
| twitter1 | bye bye. | Sep 09 08:58 |
| twitter1 | why do I pay to enforce software patents? there's no public interest in them. | Sep 09 08:59 |
| DaemonFC | it's trivial to buy a computer with no OS | Sep 09 08:59 |
| twitter1 | copyright of binary files | Sep 09 08:59 |
| twitter1 | bye bye | Sep 09 08:59 |
| twitter1 | without these things, non free software would vanish overnight. | Sep 09 08:59 |
| twitter1 | the public pays for these disservices | Sep 09 08:59 |
| twitter1 | they should refuse | Sep 09 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, So where is the motivation for improvement or creation of new things? | Sep 09 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | if you can't make money off them and anyone can steal your idea? | Sep 09 09:00 |
| twitter1 | I don't care. | Sep 09 09:00 |
| twitter1 | business methods never deserved patent protection, neither did software. | Sep 09 09:01 |
| DaemonFC | where's the motivation to do better if you don't benefit from your own efforts? | Sep 09 09:01 |
| twitter1 | the free software world shows plenty of motivation | Sep 09 09:01 |
| twitter1 | people can make money on things besides boxed software | Sep 09 09:01 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, You're saying that someone should go through the effort and hard work of inventing something so that someone else can take it | Sep 09 09:01 |
| twitter1 | software is not an invention | Sep 09 09:02 |
| DaemonFC | it would be like me getting a college degree so I could work and give you all my money | Sep 09 09:02 |
| DaemonFC | what's in it for me? | Sep 09 09:02 |
| twitter1 | it's a method or math | Sep 09 09:02 |
| twitter1 | I don't know. What's in free software for you? | Sep 09 09:02 |
| DaemonFC | a new type of software is as much an invention as a new type of engine for a car | Sep 09 09:02 |
| twitter1 | What's in it for Google? Billions of dollars. | Sep 09 09:02 |
| DaemonFC | so surely you think that the person who invents a new car engine design should get stiffed too | Sep 09 09:03 |
| twitter1 | Don't blame me for your inabilty to make money honestly, DaemonFC, and expect me to subsidize you with idiotic patent laws. | Sep 09 09:03 |
| twitter1 | a new engine might be a real invention. software is not. | Sep 09 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | then don't expect me to do anything that benefits you | Sep 09 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | you're proving my point | Sep 09 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | you want people to work and invent without being paid | Sep 09 09:04 |
| twitter1 | I don't expect you to do anything for me. | Sep 09 09:04 |
| twitter1 | I want to be free to write software without having to pay a troll like M$ for some bullshit patent. | Sep 09 09:04 |
| twitter1 | I don't care what you do. | Sep 09 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, Pretty much anything you buy, you're paying for someone's patent | Sep 09 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | even buying a TV dinner, you're probably paying for a patented process somewhere | Sep 09 09:05 |
| twitter1 | does that make it right, or more or a burden? | Sep 09 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | if it wasn't for profitability, we'd still be a hunter gatherer society | Sep 09 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | there wouldn't be any technology at all | Sep 09 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | we'd all live in caves | Sep 09 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | and live to the ripe old age of 20 | Sep 09 09:06 |
| twitter1 | free software, so easy but DaemonFC can not understand it. | Sep 09 09:06 |
| twitter1 | DaemonFridgidCaveman | Sep 09 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | I understand that they mimic the proprietary software that preceded them | Sep 09 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | what have they done that was totally new? | Sep 09 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | what have they done that has not been done before? | Sep 09 09:07 |
| twitter1 | name any major software that does not have roots in free or government projects | Sep 09 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | you're evading the question | Sep 09 09:07 |
| twitter1 | no, I'm showing you your error | Sep 09 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | what totally new thing has free software given us? | Sep 09 09:07 |
| twitter1 | Maxsima -> Maple -> MathCAD and friends | Sep 09 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox is more or less free software, but they didn't make the first successful web browsers | Sep 09 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | Pidgin is free software, but it didn't invent instant messaging | Sep 09 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | or friends lists | Sep 09 09:08 |
| twitter1 | Mosaic -> Spyglass -> IE and friends | Sep 09 09:08 |
| twitter1 | do you see a pattern in what I'm telling you? | Sep 09 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | free software is spawned in response to a broad category of proprietary software | Sep 09 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | with rare exception | Sep 09 09:09 |
| twitter1 | but nothing is really unique. | Sep 09 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | it would be nice if the model produced something new that hadn't been tried ebfore | Sep 09 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | *before | Sep 09 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | improving on a design is a good thing too | Sep 09 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | but it's not just free software that does that | Sep 09 09:10 |
| twitter1 | reasonable practitioners have the same ideas and implement them in software | Sep 09 09:12 |
| twitter1 | that's why there should be no software patents, they steal methods from the commons. | Sep 09 09:12 |
| twitter1 | no one should have a monopoly on methods | Sep 09 09:12 |
| twitter1 | useful inventions, perhaps, but not methods and math | Sep 09 09:12 |
| twitter1 | The Knoll brothers made bunch of routines to manipulate images. These became Photoshop. Yet each and every one of these methods was implemented independently by hundreds of researchers. | Sep 09 09:13 |
| twitter1 | There's no end of the collections and the software written on top of them. | Sep 09 09:13 |
| twitter1 | No, non free software got it's start by stealing public software. | Sep 09 09:13 |
| twitter1 | Bell, a public monopoly, decided that they would own their government funded Unix. ha! | Sep 09 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | or maybe because it implemented the ideas in such a better way that theirs was worth paying for? | Sep 09 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | hundreds of thousands of people paying for Photoshop | Sep 09 09:14 |
| twitter1 | Several companies tried to split up and "monotize" maxsima. Most failed. | Sep 09 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | you don't just fork over thousands of dollars without asking yourself if there's a damned good reason for it | Sep 09 09:14 |
| twitter1 | If the implementation was so much better, these companies would not need patent protection, would they? | Sep 09 09:15 |
| twitter1 | How many thousands of dollars have you spent on software, DeaemonFC? | Sep 09 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | if GIMP was really a Photoshop equal, then Photoshop would stop selling | Sep 09 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | Adobe would go out of business | Sep 09 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | GIMP is no Photoshop killer | Sep 09 09:15 |
| MinceR | except for all the people used to photoshop who won't even try anything else | Sep 09 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | it's just a neat little bit of freeware | Sep 09 09:15 |
| twitter1 | Photoshop is becoming small market. | Sep 09 09:16 |
| MinceR | it isn't freeware, it's free software | Sep 09 09:16 |
| MinceR | freeware is free proprietary software. | Sep 09 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | same thing to most people | Sep 09 09:16 |
| twitter1 | mostly legacy and commercial work, niches | Sep 09 09:16 |
| twitter1 | Gimp is adequate for most users. | Sep 09 09:16 |
| twitter1 | Like I said, MinceR, legacy. | Sep 09 09:17 |
| MinceR | s/free p/gratis p/ | Sep 09 09:17 |
| MinceR | to make it less ambiguous. | Sep 09 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | so professional users for whom GIMP is not adequate should use GIMP anyway? | Sep 09 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | even though it doesn't do what they need? | Sep 09 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | GIMP is probably driving Photoshop prices higher for people that do need it | Sep 09 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | by making the market for Photoshop smaller, Adobe would have to sell Photoshop at a much higher price | Sep 09 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | so if GIMP is good enough for 75% of users, Photoshop has to be four times more expensive than it would otherwise be | Sep 09 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | GIMP isn't changing the fact that people are being gouged, it's just making fewer people get gouged much more | Sep 09 09:20 |
| schestowitz | GIMP may not be BST | Sep 09 09:21 |
| schestowitz | *BST | Sep 09 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | so in the end, it's suppressing creativity so you can touch up photos of your Aunt | Sep 09 09:21 |
| schestowitz | *BEST | Sep 09 09:21 |
| schestowitz | But for more than 90% of users it's near perfect | Sep 09 09:21 |
| schestowitz | They would not lack a single feature | Sep 09 09:21 |
| MinceR | and it beats photoshop in some ways | Sep 09 09:21 |
| MinceR | its GUI is superior, for example | Sep 09 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | ick | Sep 09 09:22 |
| MinceR | that's the InterCAL compiler. | Sep 09 09:22 |
| MinceR | unrelated to GIMP. | Sep 09 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | I really stopped using GIMP so much when GIMPshop started going unmaintained | Sep 09 09:22 |
| MinceR | unless you want to implement INTERCAL-Fu, of course ;) | Sep 09 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, when they get these last few really annoying bugs out of Epiphany Webkit, it's going to be one hell of a nice program | Sep 09 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | that's kind of an annoying inconsistency of GNOME though if you ask me | Sep 09 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany is nice and simple and straightforward | Sep 09 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | then you get to Evolution and it has an option for things you didn't know you even needed | Sep 09 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | I mean all kinds of options, like 30 in the right click menus alone :) | Sep 09 09:25 |
| MinceR | oh noes, options | Sep 09 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, There's a point between no options and overload | Sep 09 09:25 |
| MinceR | and it's pointless | Sep 09 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | I think that fact was lost on them | Sep 09 09:25 |
| MinceR | if you want an idiot box, buy a crApple "computer" | Sep 09 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | well, I don't know how exactly they put so many features in it and managed to miss the one or two I need every time | Sep 09 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | I'm still using Thunderbird | Sep 09 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | though Claws is nice | Sep 09 09:27 |
| DaemonFC | Claws seems more like a GNOME application than Evolution | Sep 09 09:27 |
| MinceR | at least Evolution handles IMAP (including offline mode and shared folders) correctly | Sep 09 09:27 |
| twitter1 | So, DaemonFC, how much money have you spent on all of this wonderful, non free software? | Sep 09 09:27 |
| twitter1 | What's it really worth to you? | Sep 09 09:27 |
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| DaemonFC | which software in particular? | Sep 09 09:28 |
| twitter1 | rude public network kicks people off | Sep 09 09:28 |
| twitter1 | I thought the little DaemonFC had gone to bed. | Sep 09 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | I would say that most of my games have given me at least enough amusement for what I paid | Sep 09 09:28 |
| twitter1 | I must have missed how many thousands of dollars DaemonFC has spent on software. | Sep 09 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | When did I do that? | Sep 09 09:29 |
| twitter1 | you didn't, because non free software is not really worth that much to you. | Sep 09 09:29 |
| twitter1 | just like a ditch is not worth that much to me, so you better not go out into your back yard to dig and expect to get rich that way. | Sep 09 09:30 |
| twitter1 | maybe if you got a patent on a clever method, you might make yourself the only person who could dig ditches | Sep 09 09:30 |
| twitter1 | then we could all thank you for your hard work. | Sep 09 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | I don't remember doing that either | Sep 09 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | the only hole in a backyard I'm tempted to dig right now...... | Sep 09 09:31 |
| twitter1 | you asked me why you should go out and write software | Sep 09 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | out of good taste, I won't say | Sep 09 09:31 |
| twitter1 | when people like me would not pay you | Sep 09 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, torture yourself all you like | Sep 09 09:31 |
| twitter1 | I answered that I did not know why you should exert yourself | Sep 09 09:31 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think anyone has a patent on masochism | Sep 09 09:32 |
| DaemonFC | so you can jsut knock yourself out | Sep 09 09:32 |
| twitter1 | no thanks | Sep 09 09:33 |
| twitter1 | and I think we should all exert a lot less effort on software patents and copyright "protection" of other people's living. | Sep 09 09:33 |
| twitter1 | it's funny you should mention work and knocking myself out. I'm at work right now and I'm surely knocking myself out. | Sep 09 09:34 |
| twitter1 | I'm doing it for pride in a job well done. | Sep 09 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | talking to me and being paid? | Sep 09 09:35 |
| DaemonFC | wow | Sep 09 09:35 |
| twitter1 | I'm taking data. There's a lot of observing nothing. | Sep 09 09:36 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure you're doing a bangup job doing whatever it is you're doing | Sep 09 09:36 |
| twitter1 | yes, thank you. | Sep 09 09:36 |
| twitter1 | ;-) | Sep 09 09:36 |
| twitter1 | Some people do these things. | Sep 09 09:36 |
| twitter1 | PJ's take on the M$ OIN patent story is interesting http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090908164954318 | Sep 09 09:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw that | Sep 09 09:39 |
| schestowitz | I was gonna write about it too | Sep 09 09:39 |
| schestowitz | I saw this ysterday morning (WSJ) | Sep 09 09:39 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany Webkit also seems to consume much less memory | Sep 09 09:40 |
| DaemonFC | I've had it open for hours with almost a dozen tabs at any time and it's only using 72 megs of RAM | Sep 09 09:40 |
| schestowitz | Everything in kde4 takes up less memory | Sep 09 09:44 |
| schestowitz | Except knode | Sep 09 09:44 |
| schestowitz | It gobbles up more than before | Sep 09 09:44 |
| twitter1 | good morning. | Sep 09 09:44 |
| schestowitz | Investors unhappy as Yahoo boss Bartz earns $2m from share sales from the Guardian reports that Yahoo’s CEO sold $2 million worth of shares since March of this year. Clearly, Yahoo investors are not happy that the CEO would make such a significant sale when the company continues to struggle to find its place. | Sep 09 09:44 |
| schestowitz | http://searchengineland.com/yahoos-ceo-carol-bartz-selling-out-2-million-yhoo-shares-sold-25322 | Sep 09 09:44 |
| twitter1 | yes, KDE rocks like that. | Sep 09 09:44 |
| twitter1 | I hate having to fire up Mozilla. | Sep 09 09:44 |
| schestowitz | Bartzmer... she's not much of a YHOO fan, is she? | Sep 09 09:44 |
| twitter1 | but Mozilla does the unfriendly javascript very well. | Sep 09 09:44 |
| schestowitz | She said, "I didn't come here to sell the company" | Sep 09 09:45 |
| schestowitz | True | Sep 09 09:45 |
| schestowitz | She didn't sell | Sep 09 09:45 |
| schestowitz | She sold out | Sep 09 09:45 |
| schestowitz | Gave it to Ballmer for less than a billiob | Sep 09 09:45 |
| schestowitz | Idiot. | Sep 09 09:45 |
| twitter1 | true | Sep 09 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | you can easily use apps for KDE from within GNOME or vice versa | Sep 09 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | applications shouldn't affect your choice of desktop too much | Sep 09 09:50 |
| twitter1 | yes, and it does not. I use E16 but tend to run KDE apps before Gnome. | Sep 09 09:50 |
| twitter1 | with a few exceptions, like pidgin. | Sep 09 09:51 |
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| twitter1 | You are way out in front of the Patent Troll investigation, Roy. | Sep 09 10:00 |
| twitter1 | Your research on Innovative Research and the Gates Foundation are first rate. | Sep 09 10:01 |
| twitter1 | It's finally being picked up too. | Sep 09 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, I've never really liked the minimal desktop environments or the window managers, maybe it's just me | Sep 09 10:11 |
| twitter1 | E16 is not minimal | Sep 09 10:13 |
| twitter1 | and you can augment it with other things, like KDE's kicker | Sep 09 10:14 |
| twitter1 | at least you could with KDE3.5 | Sep 09 10:14 |
| twitter1 | E16 has first rate pagers. | Sep 09 10:15 |
| twitter1 | the separation between virtual windows and virtual desktops is excellently carried out and it's very good for organizing work. | Sep 09 10:16 |
| twitter1 | KDE started to get their pager working, but they have a long way to go on the 2D front. | Sep 09 10:17 |
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| twitter1 | it is so fast and efficient that I don't want cubes and other eye candy. | Sep 09 10:17 |
| twitter1 | I've used E16 for five years or so and I've just scratched the surface of what it does | Sep 09 10:18 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Wants to Attack Linux Using Patents, via Proxies/Trolls — Claim http://ping.fm/6TvKM | Sep 09 10:27 | |
| twitter1 | NYT ridicules self congratulatory economists http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/06/magazine/06Economic-t.html?_r=1 | Sep 09 10:27 |
| schestowitz | "They're professionals!" | Sep 09 10:28 |
| schestowitz | --Greenspinach | Sep 09 10:28 |
| twitter1 | the same paper praises another group of "professionals" who have wrought almost as much turmoil, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/technology/personaltech/03basics.html | Sep 09 10:30 |
| twitter1 | more security absurdity | Sep 09 10:30 |
| twitter1 | Before you dare plug your M$ or Apple Peeee Ceeee into a network, carefully do the the following 25 useless things. | Sep 09 10:31 |
| twitter1 | 1. Turn on your firewall. No specific or practical settings are given .... | Sep 09 10:33 |
| twitter1 | "Updating" your software.... | Sep 09 10:33 |
| twitter1 | 2. check for updates from Microsoft and accept whatever they say | Sep 09 10:34 |
| twitter1 | 3. Make sure your computer did #2 | Sep 09 10:34 |
| twitter1 | 4. clicking the Start button | Sep 09 10:35 |
| twitter1 | 5. click All Programs | Sep 09 10:35 |
| twitter1 | 6. click Windows Update | Sep 09 10:36 |
| twitter1 | 7. click “check for updates.” | Sep 09 10:36 |
| twitter1 | 8. visit M$ website to pretend you know what you are doing above. | Sep 09 10:36 |
| twitter1 | 9. Sooner or later, you will see a screen asking if you want to “Help protect Windows automatically.” | Sep 09 10:37 |
| twitter1 | 10. Choose the first option, “Use recommended settings,” | Sep 09 10:37 |
| twitter1 | schedule exactly what time your updates by: | Sep 09 10:38 |
| twitter1 | 11 - 15 repeat steps 4 through 7. | Sep 09 10:39 |
| twitter1 | 16 - ?. select Change Settings and make your choices | Sep 09 10:40 |
| twitter1 | many clicks skipped | Sep 09 10:40 |
| twitter1 | turn on the Internet Explorer Phishing Filter, unknown number of clicks | Sep 09 10:40 |
| twitter1 | New subtask, ADD SECURITY SOFTWARE | Sep 09 10:41 |
| twitter1 | "Firewalls won’t help fend off viruses or Trojan horses that can come through e-mail messages, Web sites and pop-up ads. " | Sep 09 10:41 |
| twitter1 | many zero cost options are mentioned, "even penniless students have no excuse to go without" but no gnu/linux | Sep 09 10:42 |
| twitter1 | many clicks not listed. | Sep 09 10:42 |
| twitter1 | above was poorly defined subtask, get an anti-virus program. | Sep 09 10:43 |
| twitter1 | 17. New subtask - filter your internet, "Since a lot of malicious programs now come through Web sites, you will also want to use one of the many free tools available to help you avoid malicious sites." | Sep 09 10:44 |
| twitter1 | several programs are mentioned, all absolutely FREE. unknown number of clicks to install said, begware skipped. | Sep 09 10:45 |
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| twitter1 | assume, generously, that getting all of your malware defense programs only cost you 10 clicks and half an hour. ha ha. | Sep 09 10:46 |
| twitter1 | 27. New subtask with many clicks - SORT OUT THE APPLICATIONS | Sep 09 10:47 |
| twitter1 | "New Windows PCs typically come loaded [with crapware!]" | Sep 09 10:47 |
| twitter1 | eliminate the programs you don’t need | Sep 09 10:47 |
| twitter1 | 28. click Start button | Sep 09 10:48 |
| twitter1 | 29. click Control Panel | Sep 09 10:48 |
| twitter1 | 30. click Programs | Sep 09 10:48 |
| twitter1 | 31. see a list of what is on your machine | Sep 09 10:49 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 10:49 | |
| twitter1 | 32 - ? Select unwanted programs and then hit the Uninstall button at the top of the program list. | Sep 09 10:49 |
| twitter1 | Assume 5 clicks were skipped nuking dozens of programs. | Sep 09 10:50 |
| twitter1 | 37 - ? sign up for automatic updates from the makers of any software you intend to keep - unknown number of clicks. | Sep 09 10:50 |
| twitter1 | Are we there yet? NO! | Sep 09 10:51 |
| twitter1 | 40 - ? To help you make sure you have checked out everything, download Secunia PSI, Unknown number of clicks. | Sep 09 10:51 |
| twitter1 | above program will make sure that all the programs on your PC get security patches. they promise, heya! | Sep 09 10:52 |
| twitter1 | a never ending task, "always be careful about which software you install from the Internet" | Sep 09 10:52 |
| twitter1 | So, there are at least 40 worthless things to do for any new Windows computer. Horrible isn't it? | Sep 09 10:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Best Buy Reminds Us of the “New” Microsoft... the *Real* Microsoft! http://ping.fm/bcCe9 | Sep 09 10:53 | |
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| twitter1 | Does the author really expect people will do all of those things? like print out the article and step by step clicky clicky? you have to print it because the system will reboot itself about six time. | Sep 09 10:54 |
| twitter1 | schestowitz, what did RMS say about patents and mosquitoes? | Sep 09 10:56 |
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| twitter1 | cool article, Roy. | Sep 09 10:59 |
| MinceR | i bet i could upgrade that new windblows computer to gnu/linux with way less than 40 clicks | Sep 09 11:05 |
| DaemonFC | so I tell Hulu to give me a long ad so I can go take a nice long leisurely piss | Sep 09 11:06 |
| DaemonFC | and they give me a 2 minute 30 second ad about birth control pills | Sep 09 11:06 |
| DaemonFC | so I had time to get some iced tea made up too :) | Sep 09 11:07 |
| DaemonFC | I know I don't want kids because kids are what stupid men have | Sep 09 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | it's like Exxon, one spill and you pay for it for the rest of your life | Sep 09 11:09 |
| DaemonFC | so I'll stick to television and iced tea | Sep 09 11:09 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 09 11:09 |
| schestowitz | twitter1: RMS: "Fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents, any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria." | Sep 09 11:11 |
| twitter1 | thanks. | Sep 09 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | so schestowitz, if you eliminate the mosquito, what happens? | Sep 09 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | surely they're more than just a nuisance? | Sep 09 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | they're part of a delicate system that doesn't react well to change | Sep 09 11:15 |
| MinceR | ecological catastrophe? | Sep 09 11:15 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 09 11:15 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Everything that exists is part of the system, take out a piece at random just because it pissed you off, you could end up bringing the whole thing down | Sep 09 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | better that a few people die of malaria than the entire ecosystem of Earth breaks down and everything dies | Sep 09 11:16 |
| DaemonFC | wouldn't you agree? | Sep 09 11:16 |
| MinceR | i would | Sep 09 11:17 |
| MinceR | i'd rather modify humans than modify the environment :) | Sep 09 11:17 |
| DaemonFC | perhaps RMS could have phrased his argument differently? | Sep 09 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, We're a part of the system as well | Sep 09 11:18 |
| MinceR | i'm sure he could have | Sep 09 11:18 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: we're already affected by forces other than evolution | Sep 09 11:18 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, I would compare humans to the Zebra Mussel | Sep 09 11:18 |
| twitter1 | MinceR and DaemonFC, your messages all have the same time stamps..... | Sep 09 11:19 |
| MinceR | twitter1: are you lagged? | Sep 09 11:20 |
| MinceR | or hiding seconds? :> | Sep 09 11:20 |
| twitter1 | Nonsense -> DaemonFC: better that a few people die of malaria than the entire ecosystem of Earth breaks down and everything dies | Sep 09 11:21 |
| twitter1 | no lag here | Sep 09 11:21 |
| twitter1 | the seconds were exact for about 20 lines | Sep 09 11:21 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, or maybe we kill the mosquito and more people die of starvation and AIDS? | Sep 09 11:22 |
| DaemonFC | does that help? | Sep 09 11:22 |
| MinceR | twitter1: maybe your server is... or mine | Sep 09 11:23 |
| twitter1 | 100 years ago, mosquitoes would kill thousands of people a week in my home town, New Orleans. | Sep 09 11:23 |
| MinceR | in any case, i don't see matching seconds | Sep 09 11:23 |
| MinceR | and irssi doesn't say i have 1s lag or more | Sep 09 11:23 |
| twitter1 | We can check the public logs later. | Sep 09 11:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Seemingly Affected by Several More “Critical” Flaws This Month http://ping.fm/3HsCe | Sep 09 11:23 | |
| MinceR | the ecosystem is not something to meddle with lightly. | Sep 09 11:23 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, Now it's just hurricanes and people who live off the government complaining that we didn't pick them up and carry them out in time | Sep 09 11:23 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 11:24 |
| twitter1 | people drained the swamps around New Orleans and stopped dying. | Sep 09 11:24 |
| DaemonFC | progress | Sep 09 11:24 |
| MinceR | and how many animals and plants were killed by draining the swamps? | Sep 09 11:24 |
| twitter1 | you are too stupid for words, DaemonFC. | Sep 09 11:24 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It doesn't matter, cause there's MORE PEOPLE now | Sep 09 11:24 |
| DaemonFC | don't you get it? | Sep 09 11:24 |
| DaemonFC | we're all that matters | Sep 09 11:24 |
| MinceR | right | Sep 09 11:25 |
| DaemonFC | if we have to kill hundreds of species to save a few of ourselves, so be it | Sep 09 11:25 |
| DaemonFC | right? yay humans! | Sep 09 11:25 |
| twitter1 | You are welcome to make yourself into plant food. | Sep 09 11:25 |
| MinceR | after all the best way for a human to die is by the consequences of overpopulation :> | Sep 09 11:25 |
| MinceR | right? | Sep 09 11:26 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It'll get to that | Sep 09 11:26 |
| DaemonFC | already has gotten to that for a lot of the world | Sep 09 11:26 |
| twitter1 | MinceR and DaemonFC will decide who lives and breeds. That will be fair. | Sep 09 11:26 |
| DaemonFC | irresponsible and indiscriminate breeding | Sep 09 11:26 |
| MinceR | twitter1: quote my line that said i will decide on this matter. | Sep 09 11:27 |
| twitter1 | you advocate mosquitoes killing people. | Sep 09 11:27 |
| twitter1 | that is a decision. | Sep 09 11:27 |
| MinceR | congratulations, you've just failed at reading comprehension. | Sep 09 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | people having 50 kids just to watch die of AIDS, malaria, and starvation | Sep 09 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | relying entirely on people in other countries giving them hand outs | Sep 09 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | it's stupidity, madness | Sep 09 11:28 |
| twitter1 | I don't think even a communist big wig ever had 50 kids. | Sep 09 11:28 |
| MinceR | the first question would be "why are there so many mosquitoes where lots of people live?" | Sep 09 11:28 |
| MinceR | imo | Sep 09 11:28 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, If you were in one of these places, would YOU have 50 kids just so they could all die? | Sep 09 11:28 |
| twitter1 | because people live close to the water, it's basic transport. | Sep 09 11:28 |
| MinceR | i'd rather not | Sep 09 11:29 |
| DaemonFC | these places are like the closest thing to hell on Earth | Sep 09 11:29 |
| twitter1 | more than 80% of the US lives in places like that. | Sep 09 11:29 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, Oh bullshit | Sep 09 11:29 |
| DaemonFC | there's some people that keep themselves in poverty and live on welfare by choice | Sep 09 11:29 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't say that's the majority | Sep 09 11:29 |
| twitter1 | You think they all live in Kansas, woops there used to be lots of wetlands there too. | Sep 09 11:30 |
| twitter1 | what do you know about welfare and poverty? -> there's some people that keep themselves in poverty and live on welfare by choice | Sep 09 11:30 |
| DaemonFC | I believe in hell, absolutely | Sep 09 11:30 |
| DaemonFC | I believe people make their own hell | Sep 09 11:30 |
| DaemonFC | for themselves to live in | Sep 09 11:30 |
| MinceR | there's worse | Sep 09 11:31 |
| MinceR | people make my hell, too | Sep 09 11:31 |
| DaemonFC | speaking of hell, has anyone noticed that the Somali pirates are going after the countries they know won't shoot them now? | Sep 09 11:32 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 11:32 |
| MinceR | i haven't heard of the somali pirates recently | Sep 09 11:32 |
| schestowitz | Me neither | Sep 09 11:33 |
| schestowitz | I hear a lot about "pirates" though | Sep 09 11:33 |
| schestowitz | Mostly Windows uers | Sep 09 11:33 |
| MinceR | yarr! | Sep 09 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, How much do you figure we could ransom each copy of Windows for? | Sep 09 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | How much do you figure they'll pay to have each one back safely? | Sep 09 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 09 11:34 |
| twitter1 | Have you ever been on food stamps, DaemonFC? | Sep 09 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, Uhhm, I've picked up overtime before or gotten a second job when I thought things were going to get that bad | Sep 09 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | there's always work, there's also always going to be people with an "I don't wanna work" ache | Sep 09 11:35 |
| twitter1 | I'll take that as a no. Your parents were hard working or well off and so are you. | Sep 09 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | not at all | Sep 09 11:36 |
| twitter1 | but you don't know shit about poverty. | Sep 09 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | that's because I've made some effort to avoid it | Sep 09 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 11:36 |
| twitter1 | it's pretty obvious from the obnoxious and stupid things you say. | Sep 09 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, since I told you how much I DON'T get in welfare, how about you tell ME how many 60 hour weeks you've ever worked | Sep 09 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | I think it's only fair | Sep 09 11:37 |
| twitter1 | I don't count them, thank you. | Sep 09 11:37 |
| twitter1 | I'm on the job right now. | Sep 09 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it has to happen first | Sep 09 11:37 |
| DaemonFC | I keep forgetting that, sorry | Sep 09 11:38 |
| twitter1 | one day, you will get a job | Sep 09 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | I've had a fucking job ever since I was 16 years old and moved out on my own | Sep 09 11:38 |
| DaemonFC | thank you very much | Sep 09 11:38 |
| twitter1 | mouthing off here is not working, FC. | Sep 09 11:39 |
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| DaemonFC | well, just because you've never pulled yourself up... | Sep 09 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | I mean it's probably easy for you to milk the system | Sep 09 11:39 |
| DaemonFC | is what I'm getting at | Sep 09 11:40 |
| twitter1 | tell me more about me | Sep 09 11:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @pvilela: Continuar a usar formatos proprietários de documentos e video no século XXI é como continuar a usar papel selado para escrever | Sep 09 11:40 | |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Sep 09 11:40 | |
| twitter1 | You seem to know all about New Orleans, welfare and me. This is amusing. | Sep 09 11:40 |
| DaemonFC | well, I'm sure that like me, you had it so easy that you moved out at 16 and lived in your car for a few months just to get away | Sep 09 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | but what would I know about black people, hurricanes, and not getting the hell out of the way? | Sep 09 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | you're absolutely right | Sep 09 11:41 |
| twitter1 | living in your car taught you about "black people"? | Sep 09 11:41 |
| DaemonFC | cause Jesse Jackson comes over and starts mouthing off that I didn't send them enough of my paycheck | Sep 09 11:42 |
| twitter1 | and hurricanes? | Sep 09 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | on the evening news | Sep 09 11:42 |
| twitter1 | ???? | Sep 09 11:42 |
| twitter1 | I think you have a racial hang up. | Sep 09 11:42 |
| DaemonFC | look at the videos of the Walmart getting sacked | Sep 09 11:43 |
| DaemonFC | or the National Guard being shot at | Sep 09 11:43 |
| DaemonFC | the only white person in any of the videos is the reporter | Sep 09 11:43 |
| twitter1 | My brother in law was shot at. Tell me about it. | Sep 09 11:43 |
| twitter1 | Tell me some more. | Sep 09 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | they cause the damned problem for themselves and then it's bitch bitch bitch about me not subsidizing more of their free shit | Sep 09 11:44 |
| twitter1 | "they"? | Sep 09 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | frankly I'm sick of hearing it | Sep 09 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's not my problem that they didn't get out of there | Sep 09 11:44 |
| twitter1 | you know someone who says things like that? | Sep 09 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather they just take their steaks they got with food stamps and their big screen TVs that their SSI check paid for, said thank you, and went on their way | Sep 09 11:45 |
| twitter1 | So, "they" should have just driven away.... like you did when you were 16? In your mom's car. | Sep 09 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | but it's a sense of entitlement, and those never get much smaller | Sep 09 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | my car | Sep 09 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | that I paid for in cash | Sep 09 11:46 |
| twitter1 | that's nice. | Sep 09 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | I was more responsible at age 16 than those people are at any age | Sep 09 11:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gartner Group is Attacking Free Software, Again http://ping.fm/gVKEi | Sep 09 11:46 | |
| twitter1 | what people? | Sep 09 11:47 |
| twitter1 | people who don't own a car? | Sep 09 11:47 |
| DaemonFC | those damned complainers in New Orleans | Sep 09 11:47 |
| twitter1 | You sound a lot like the people at Innovative Emergency Management. | Sep 09 11:47 |
| twitter1 | Everyone just drive out of town! | Sep 09 11:48 |
| DaemonFC | I would have let them drown too, the money we saved on food stamps and crazy checks are like instant reparations for the hurricane damage | Sep 09 11:48 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 09 11:48 |
| twitter1 | very funny. | Sep 09 11:48 |
| twitter1 | not | Sep 09 11:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | new orleans was a mistake. | Sep 09 11:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | stuff like that makes me very angry | Sep 09 11:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | this could have all been prevented at a fraction of what it continues to cost us | Sep 09 11:49 |
| twitter1 | How about Manhattan? | Sep 09 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Save money? easy! | Sep 09 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | take the trailers back, auction them off | Sep 09 11:49 |
| DaemonFC | let the ingrates sleep under bridges for a while | Sep 09 11:50 |
| twitter1 | That's being done, actually. | Sep 09 11:50 |
| DaemonFC | we're soooooo mean | Sep 09 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: the trailers should be destroyed | Sep 09 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know, that whole thing was fucked up | Sep 09 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | FEMA bought them, and then wouldnt let anyone live in them | Sep 09 11:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | and then, AND THEN, we finally find out why | Sep 09 11:50 |
| twitter1 | probably. they were full of harmful vollitiles that made people sick. | Sep 09 11:50 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Right, their free trailer has just enough of a microscopic amount of toxins in it | Sep 09 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | JUST ENOUGH to sue the government over | Sep 09 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | when they could have been sleeping under bridges | Sep 09 11:51 |
| *PetoKraus has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 11:51 | |
| twitter1 | the trailer parks were run like prisons. | Sep 09 11:51 |
| DaemonFC | like I said, poor them | Sep 09 11:51 |
| twitter1 | at one point, they banned reporters from visiting | Sep 09 11:51 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 11:51 | |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, Like I said, we should just take them back | Sep 09 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | let them fend for themselves | Sep 09 11:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: there should be no toxic components used like that | Sep 09 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | there probably wasn't | Sep 09 11:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | there was | Sep 09 11:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | they used unsafe levels of toxins | Sep 09 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | they probably are exaggerating TRACE AMOUNTS | Sep 09 11:52 |
| twitter1 | it made people sick. | Sep 09 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | just to sue the govt over | Sep 09 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | oh bullshit | Sep 09 11:52 |
| DaemonFC | these people are mooches and freeloaders | Sep 09 11:53 |
| DaemonFC | they'll hire an ambulance chasing lawyer to get more money for nothing | Sep 09 11:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | I doubt it | Sep 09 11:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | there really is a issue with that shit | Sep 09 11:53 |
| twitter1 | What do you care FC, you wanted everyone to drown. | Sep 09 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | ambulance chasing lawyers and freeloaders? | Sep 09 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, there is a problem in that they are allowed to operate that way | Sep 09 11:54 |
| twitter1 | DaemonFC seems to have some sort of 1970's vision of the welfare state. | Sep 09 11:54 |
| twitter1 | and serious racial prejudices | Sep 09 11:55 |
| twitter1 | he's applied them both to disaster relief. | Sep 09 11:55 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure there was some white trash around somewhere | Sep 09 11:55 |
| DaemonFC | there always is | Sep 09 11:56 |
| twitter1 | I'm looking at it. | Sep 09 11:56 |
| twitter1 | ;-) | Sep 09 11:56 |
| twitter1 | better drown them too. | Sep 09 11:56 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, quit looking in the mirror now | Sep 09 11:56 |
| DaemonFC | your face will freeze like that | Sep 09 11:57 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 11:57 |
| twitter1 | or send in the mosquitoes | Sep 09 11:57 |
| DaemonFC | the honkies | Sep 09 11:57 |
| DaemonFC | the crackers | Sep 09 11:58 |
| DaemonFC | the cracker ass crackers | Sep 09 11:58 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, I thought about making a theme for Google Chrome that was designed to look like it was covered in duct tape | Sep 09 11:58 |
| DaemonFC | thought about calling the theme Alabama Chrome | Sep 09 11:58 |
| twitter1 | now you know about Alabama? | Sep 09 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | sure | Sep 09 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | it's a little patch of Haiti right here in the US of A | Sep 09 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 09 11:59 |
| twitter1 | you must have seen that on TV too. | Sep 09 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | we could probably get out of this recession a lot quicker if we gave the deep south states to Mexico | Sep 09 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | just saying | Sep 09 12:01 |
| twitter1 | your worldliness beggars description | Sep 09 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | nah, giving Louisiana, Texas, and Alabama to Mexico would be like the best bait and switch since blankets infected with Smallpox | Sep 09 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | I'm serious | Sep 09 12:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Microsoft is so short on cash it can't afford balloons outside the US http://is.gd/34thU #fail | Sep 09 12:03 | |
| twitter1 | the trolls here had the same talking points -> Gartner is actively discouraging adoption of MySQL. | Sep 09 12:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @davidgerard: Microsoft is so short on cash it can't afford balloons outside the US http://is.gd/34thU #fail | Sep 09 12:05 | |
| DaemonFC | if it handles like a tank and takes 3 hours to install.... | Sep 09 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | are you sure it's a conspiracy? | Sep 09 12:06 |
| twitter1 | ha ha. The Reg missed the most important national slight of all in the Vista 7 launches. Germany gets BEvERages in blue cups. | Sep 09 12:16 |
| twitter1 | everyone else is left high and dry | Sep 09 12:16 |
| twitter1 | sad really. | Sep 09 12:20 |
| twitter1 | 17 dead in Turkish floods. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/09/09/turkey.floods/ | Sep 09 12:21 |
| twitter1 | tell us about it DaemonFC | Sep 09 12:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Microsoft and Adobe change the agenda at public events and competitors http://ping.fm/DJBdu | Sep 09 12:21 | |
| *magentar has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 09 12:23 | |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 12:25 | |
| twitter1 | Sleep, DaemonFC, you really outdid yourself last night. | Sep 09 12:26 |
| twitter1 | Major awful trolling. | Sep 09 12:26 |
| twitter1 | Yuhong Bao loves to say, "I would not go that far" | Sep 09 12:27 |
| twitter1 | so does oiaohm. do we have a sock puppet? | Sep 09 12:29 |
| schestowitz | He went on for a few days with almost no trolling | Sep 09 12:29 |
| twitter1 | http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+%22I+would+not+go+that+far%22&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 | Sep 09 12:29 |
| twitter1 | confidence building | Sep 09 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Yeah, I noticed | Sep 09 12:29 |
| schestowitz | But it's how he speaks | Sep 09 12:29 |
| twitter1 | both of them? | Sep 09 12:29 |
| twitter1 | or is it someone's fake oriental accent? | Sep 09 12:30 |
| schestowitz | just yuhong | Sep 09 12:30 |
| twitter1 | as Lefty mentioned the other month... | Sep 09 12:30 |
| *twitter has quit (holmes.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Sep 09 12:30 | |
| twitter1 | hmmm I wonder why I left. | Sep 09 12:31 |
| twitter1 | up all night, ick | Sep 09 12:32 |
| schestowitz | Oops. | Sep 09 12:33 |
| schestowitz | I'm still marked as away | Sep 09 12:34 |
| *schestowitz Not used to the new iRC client yet | Sep 09 12:34 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Sep 09 12:34 | |
| twitter1 | you are right, it's just yuhong. | Sep 09 12:34 |
| schestowitz | tessier: ping | Sep 09 12:35 |
| schestowitz | tessier: we may have found a better caching method | Sep 09 12:35 |
| schestowitz | tessier (when you get back): http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/db-cache/ | Sep 09 12:35 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Can enable it to then check effect on q/sec | Sep 09 12:36 |
| twitter1 | ah. it was ohm.. I thought I remembered him saying that. | Sep 09 12:36 |
| twitter1 | it's a tiresome phrase. | Sep 09 12:36 |
| schestowitz | Everything is tiresome at 4am | Sep 09 12:40 |
| *twitter (n=willhill@97-113-230-249.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 12:42 | |
| *irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to twitter | Sep 09 12:42 | |
| schestowitz | Hoover is putting so much non-FOSS stuff in OStatic.. still. http://ostatic.com/blog/search-documents-in-the-federal-register-with-govpulse | Sep 09 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Try loading up an ng with 350,000 articles | Sep 09 12:47 |
| schestowitz | oops. | Sep 09 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Wrong tab | Sep 09 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Asay digs the Gartner anti-FOSS rubbish. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10346397-16.html?tag=mncol;title | Sep 09 12:49 |
| twitter1 | Things are more tiresome after listening to some kind of BS about how people in New Orleans deserved to drown. Bad trolling last night. | Sep 09 12:54 |
| twitter1 | Racist and nasty. | Sep 09 12:55 |
| schestowitz | Cool. We got cited in Ostatic just now.. http://ostatic.com/blog/does-microsoft-deliver-anti-linux-rhetoric-to-best-buy-workers | Sep 09 12:55 |
| schestowitz | "George Bush doesn't care about black people.." | Sep 09 12:55 |
| twitter1 | No, that would have been nice. | Sep 09 12:56 |
| twitter1 | small sample -> (02:57:07 AM) DaemonFC: I would have let them drown too, the money we saved on food stamps and crazy checks are like instant reparations for the hurricane damage | Sep 09 12:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] "Microsoft used a similar approach in 1995, when it forced Intel to drop development of Native Signal Processing... http://ff.im/7PiBM | Sep 09 12:58 | |
| twitter1 | (02:50:33 AM) DaemonFC: cause Jesse Jackson comes over and starts mouthing off that I didn't send them enough of my paycheck | Sep 09 12:58 |
| twitter1 | (02:50:37 AM) DaemonFC: on the evening news | Sep 09 12:58 |
| twitter1 | (02:38:14 AM) DaemonFC: there's some people that keep themselves in poverty and live on welfare by choice | Sep 09 13:00 |
| twitter1 | nuts | Sep 09 13:00 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 09 13:00 |
| twitter1 | "reparations" | Sep 09 13:04 |
| schestowitz | HTC's Tattoo Phone Runs Android, Provides Design, UI Options < http://ostatic.com/blog/htcs-tattoo-phone-runs-android-provides-design-ui-options > | Sep 09 13:05 |
| schestowitz | Time to look more beyond Microsofrt | Sep 09 13:05 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is basically dead beef | Sep 09 13:05 |
| MinceR | time to look beyond android, too :> | Sep 09 13:05 |
| schestowitz | They already know it | Sep 09 13:05 |
| schestowitz | The issues will be DRM, Apple, and SaaS | Sep 09 13:05 |
| schestowitz | Android id DRM drek | Sep 09 13:05 |
| schestowitz | It's not a victory to FOSS | Sep 09 13:06 |
| twitter1 | he he -> schestowitz: Microsoft is basically dead beef | Sep 09 13:06 |
| MinceR | 0xdeadbeef | Sep 09 13:07 |
| twitter1 | yes | Sep 09 13:07 |
| twitter1 | oooohhhh, shiny phone. | Sep 09 13:08 |
| schestowitz | Christopher Blizzard (Mozilla) | Sep 09 13:08 |
| schestowitz | Ogg promoter | Sep 09 13:08 |
| twitter1 | the keep putting the camera on the wrong side. | Sep 09 13:09 |
| schestowitz | /shiny/shi*y/ | Sep 09 13:09 |
| twitter1 | how are you supposed to do video phone like that? | Sep 09 13:09 |
| twitter1 | with a mirror? | Sep 09 13:09 |
| twitter1 | the real question is boot. | Sep 09 13:11 |
| twitter1 | can you boot the OS of your choice with it or is it a Tivo? | Sep 09 13:11 |
| MinceR | normal models are tivoized | Sep 09 13:15 |
| MinceR | dev versions aren't but they aren't guaranteed to be usable as a phone. | Sep 09 13:16 |
| MinceR | also, you have to give out personal details to google before you can even register as a developer, which is a prerequisite to obtaining one | Sep 09 13:16 |
| MinceR | (also, it costs money) | Sep 09 13:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Windows Interface Source Environment: http://bit.ly/CYmL9 || This... http://ff.im/7PlaQ | Sep 09 13:16 | |
| twitter1 | you are probably better off with wifi only anyway -> MinceR: dev versions aren't but they aren't guaranteed to be usable as a phone. | Sep 09 13:17 |
| MinceR | not really | Sep 09 13:18 |
| MinceR | wifi coverage is tiny | Sep 09 13:18 |
| MinceR | and most of it is private | Sep 09 13:18 |
| twitter1 | but you get to keep your software and network freedom that way. Open Spectrum is the real solution. I know, I'm a broken record. | Sep 09 13:19 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: blog about the WISE-Mono relationship, please | Sep 09 13:20 |
| twitter1 | As things are, I don't want any of these "smart phones" | Sep 09 13:20 |
| trmanco | meh | Sep 09 13:20 |
| trmanco | THan I'm gonna be attacked | Sep 09 13:20 |
| trmanco | http://friendfeed.com/trmanco/73b6eda8/windows-interface-source-environment-this | Sep 09 13:20 |
| twitter1 | You will be attacked for being here. Might as well have fun and earn it. | Sep 09 13:21 |
| trmanco | stuff has been quite for me | Sep 09 13:21 |
| trmanco | quiet* | Sep 09 13:21 |
| twitter1 | the poor trolls had a little party when I started to submit stories with "Microsoft" instead of "M$" | Sep 09 13:22 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8245700.stm lawsuit in 3, 2, 1.... | Sep 09 13:23 |
| twitter1 | I disappointed them right away. http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1359795&cid=29335887 | Sep 09 13:23 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: so I'll write about it, not cite it | Sep 09 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Apropos, fear of criticising Mono is exactly what they want | Sep 09 13:24 |
| trmanco | It's not really fear | Sep 09 13:24 |
| schestowitz | It's a form of gagging... like the poilitically-correct paradigm | Sep 09 13:24 |
| trmanco | I would not call it fear in my case | Sep 09 13:24 |
| schestowitz | A form of censorshop by intimidation | Sep 09 13:24 |
| schestowitz | No | Sep 09 13:24 |
| schestowitz | Some editors worry | Sep 09 13:24 |
| schestowitz | Like when Chris Smart wrrote about Mono | Sep 09 13:25 |
| trmanco | just see the wise part on that pdf | Sep 09 13:25 |
| schestowitz | Editors don't want to be seen as criticising Mono | Sep 09 13:25 |
| trmanco | and see if it doesn't make you remind on .NET and Mono | Sep 09 13:25 |
| trmanco | the EU should continue to sue microsoft | Sep 09 13:25 |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 09 13:26 |
| trmanco | and force them to remove IE and WMP from it's OS for example, these two apps were only made to cause problems and extend the companies monopoly | Sep 09 13:27 |
| trmanco | company's | Sep 09 13:27 |
| *trmanco goes back to reading that pdf | Sep 09 13:27 | |
| *trmanco reads about Java | Sep 09 13:28 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.0.111) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 13:31 | |
| twitter1 | ah, the 90's when ruining a company was so much cheaper -> A ruling later ordered Microsoft to pay $1 Million to Bristol Technologies | Sep 09 13:31 |
| trmanco | "Consistent with its behavior in response to other competitive threats, Microsoft has used | Sep 09 13:31 |
| trmanco | unfair and anti-competitive tactics to try and slow the uptake of Linux. In particular, Microsoft | Sep 09 13:31 |
| trmanco | has made and continues to make broad, unsubstantiated claims that software developers | Sep 09 13:31 |
| trmanco | distributing Linux or other open source software, as well as their customers, are infringing | Sep 09 13:31 |
| trmanco | Microsoft’s patents.130 However, although Microsoft has claimed that as many as 235 patents | Sep 09 13:31 |
| trmanco | may have been infringed131, it has consistently failed to identify which patents are at issue." | Sep 09 13:31 |
| twitter1 | aaarrrrG! | Sep 09 13:31 |
| twitter1 | bumped by this network again. | Sep 09 13:32 |
| twitter1 | yes, that's a little suspicious! | Sep 09 13:33 |
| trmanco | ? | Sep 09 13:33 |
| twitter1 | You are violating hundreds of our secret patents! | Sep 09 13:33 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 09 13:33 |
| twitter1 | We are so proud of our innovation that we can't tell you about it unless you take this big pile of cash and agree they are great. | Sep 09 13:34 |
| MinceR | the emperor's clothes :> | Sep 09 13:34 |
| twitter1 | or we will Crush you! | Sep 09 13:34 |
| twitter1 | Borat Voice, "If you cheat, I willl crush you." | Sep 09 13:35 |
| trmanco | "Even when Microsoft claims to be implementing a standard, the reality is that Microsoft’s | Sep 09 13:35 |
| trmanco | implementations routinely either only partially conform or else somehow extend the standard, so | Sep 09 13:35 |
| trmanco | that software developed to work with Microsoft’s version of the standard will not work with | Sep 09 13:35 |
| trmanco | other vendors’ implementations of the same standard." | Sep 09 13:35 |
| trmanco | ex. ODF | Sep 09 13:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Is #Mono WISE? http://ping.fm/Ucy45 | Sep 09 13:35 | |
| schestowitz | Flight site hacker 'identified' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8244028.stm > | Sep 09 13:36 |
| schestowitz | Do they care just because it's related to MS Flight Sim? | Sep 09 13:36 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 09 13:36 |
| trmanco | that was fast schestowitz | Sep 09 13:36 |
| twitter1 | ODF, C, java, javascript, ASCI ... | Sep 09 13:36 |
| trmanco | asci? | Sep 09 13:37 |
| trmanco | oh yeah | Sep 09 13:37 |
| trmanco | the windows-1502 charset | Sep 09 13:37 |
| twitter1 | ASCII | Sep 09 13:37 |
| trmanco | or whatever that is | Sep 09 13:37 |
| twitter1 | yes, they corrupted ASCII | Sep 09 13:37 |
| trmanco | yeah, I understood | Sep 09 13:37 |
| trmanco | they tried | Sep 09 13:37 |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 09 13:37 |
| twitter1 | Word was not enough. | Sep 09 13:37 |
| twitter1 | line feeds and returns were not enough | Sep 09 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Well, they can't be taken to jail for it | Sep 09 13:38 |
| schestowitz | in worse scenario, they'll pay fines | Sep 09 13:38 |
| schestowitz | And then "give meals to the poor" to do the PR thing | Sep 09 13:38 |
| twitter1 | let them eat Vista coupons. | Sep 09 13:38 |
| schestowitz | And masses of foolish sheep will not realise that a criminal company is running rounds on em | Sep 09 13:38 |
| trmanco | "HTML standard used for writing web pages.146 Unfortunately, Microsoft’s implementation is | Sep 09 13:38 |
| trmanco | subtly incompatible with the standard, which could lead web developers who test their sites in | Sep 09 13:38 |
| trmanco | Internet Explorer 8 to write their sites in a way that will not work in other browsers.147 Other, | Sep 09 13:38 |
| trmanco | earlier examples of this conduct include Microsoft’s approach to the Windows graphical user | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | interface (discussed in section II.A) and Microsoft’s approach to Java developer tools (discussed | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | in section II.H). Again, these are just a few examples of Microsoft’s hollow interoperability | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | promises. Microsoft’s history clearly demonstrates its longstanding practice of making one set | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | of statements about interoperability in public and then implementing a wholly different approach | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | to interoperability in practice." | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | they are following closely the development of html5 | Sep 09 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Sep 09 13:39 |
| schestowitz | To see how to derail it maybe | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | and it might be for the reason stated above | Sep 09 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Inject something into oit | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 09 13:39 |
| schestowitz | They have a chair in the working group now | Sep 09 13:39 |
| schestowitz | Not WIlson | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | I would say video | Sep 09 13:39 |
| schestowitz | And their buddy Apple is there too | Sep 09 13:39 |
| trmanco | wmv <video> | Sep 09 13:40 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 09 13:40 |
| schestowitz | x-| | Sep 09 13:40 |
| twitter1 | nooooooo! | Sep 09 13:40 |
| twitter1 | I imagine M$ will soon be handing out "surplus" Vista DVDs, to unfortunate people who "know someone" | Sep 09 13:40 |
| trmanco | but at least they "stole" an html engine that supports video | Sep 09 13:40 |
| *Ng (n=cmsj@nurukipa.tenshu.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 13:40 | |
| Ng | huh, OIN bought a bunch of Microsoft patents | Sep 09 13:40 |
| trmanco | I wonder is khtml support html video | Sep 09 13:40 |
| twitter1 | there are so many places to stick Steve Ballmer's head here http://bayimg.com/tag/300/ | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | what for? | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | porn? | Sep 09 13:41 |
| twitter1 | M$ patents porn? | Sep 09 13:41 |
| twitter1 | that would be good | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | no the sire | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | it's from the creators of pirate bay | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | "uncensored image hosting" | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | we need more stuff like that | Sep 09 13:41 |
| trmanco | is the RIAA going to sue that site too? | Sep 09 13:42 |
| twitter1 | yes, very nice. it's almost as nice as a public library .... | Sep 09 13:42 |
| trmanco | "yes it contain copywrited images" blah blah blah | Sep 09 13:42 |
| trmanco | no search? | Sep 09 13:43 |
| trmanco | http://baywords.com/ | Sep 09 13:43 |
| trmanco | :D | Sep 09 13:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Goldman Sachs Insiders Steal 200 Million a Day" < http://ping.fm/44bWk > | Sep 09 13:44 | |
| schestowitz | Wall Street -- Death Profits < http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stephen-gyllenhaal/wall-street----death-prof_b_278996.html > | Sep 09 13:45 |
| schestowitz | Is the police in the United States still operating? | Sep 09 13:45 |
| trmanco | "Microsoft’s conduct has allowed it to protect its monopolies, which has led to a lack of | Sep 09 13:46 |
| trmanco | choice, higher prices, and less innovation than would otherwise have prevailed in a competitive | Sep 09 13:46 |
| trmanco | marketplace. The barriers to entry surrounding Microsoft’s core monopolies remain very high, | Sep 09 13:46 |
| trmanco | and Microsoft’s market shares and profit margins in desktop operating systems, office | Sep 09 13:46 |
| trmanco | productivity suites, and browsers have continued to reflect its overwhelming monopoly power in | Sep 09 13:46 |
| trmanco | these markets.148 In short, Microsoft’s misconduct has harmed and continues to harm consumers | Sep 09 13:46 |
| trmanco | significantly." | Sep 09 13:46 |
| schestowitz | "Immediately after the AIG bailout, Paulson announced his federal bailout for the financial industry, a $700 billion plan called the Troubled Asset Relief Program, and put a heretofore unknown 35-year-old Goldman banker named Neel Kashkari in charge of administering the funds." | Sep 09 13:46 |
| schestowitz | http://timothysykes.com/blog/2009/09/06/goldman-sachs-in-rolling-stone-magazine-a-cool-conspiracy-theory/ | Sep 09 13:47 |
| twitter1 | I don't know if you saw this one the other day.... http://bayimg.com/eadIMAaCM | Sep 09 13:48 |
| twitter1 | the net scrubbers instantly labeled it "offensive" | Sep 09 13:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Linux phone is coming. http://ping.fm/aD2g9 | Sep 09 13:48 | |
| schestowitz | Morse sales and profits sink in economic storm < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/morse_sales_fall/ > | Sep 09 13:49 |
| trmanco | "The Windows API is … so deeply embedded in the source code of many Windows | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | apps that there is a huge switching cost to using a different operating system | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | instead. … It is this switching cost that has given customers the patience to stick | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | with Windows through all our mistakes, our buggy drivers, our high TCO, our | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | lack of a sexy vision at times, and many other difficulties… Customers constantly | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | evaluate other desktop platforms, [but] it would be so much work to move over | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | that they hope we just improve Windows rather than force them to move. In short, | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | without this exclusive franchise called the Windows API, we would have been | Sep 09 13:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/ms_linux_pitch/ | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | dead a long time ago." | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | "EC Decision, supra note 52, ¶ 463 (citing an internal Microsoft memo drafted for Bill Gates by C++ General | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | Manger Aaron Contorer and dated Feb. 21, 1997)." | Sep 09 13:50 |
| schestowitz | I have this memo | Sep 09 13:50 |
| schestowitz | In BN, as text | Sep 09 13:50 |
| trmanco | I like the register | Sep 09 13:52 |
| twitter1 | Over the last 10 years, everything has been rewritten with free software. | Sep 09 13:52 |
| trmanco | a site like that could only be from outside the US | Sep 09 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Ah Gawd | Sep 09 13:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft shill Gavin Clarke portrays Microsoft firearm sale as a good deed for Microsoft. ROLLS EYES. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/microsoft_sgi_patents_oin/ | Sep 09 13:53 |
| schestowitz | THe Register is ruined by those shills | Sep 09 13:53 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: THe Regsiter changed | Sep 09 13:53 |
| schestowitz | THey signed a deal with Microsft | Sep 09 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Then had Live/MSN toolbar | Sep 09 13:54 |
| trmanco | but ti still has some quality | Sep 09 13:54 |
| schestowitz | And they also have Microturfs in the staff | Sep 09 13:54 |
| schestowitz | Some. | Sep 09 13:54 |
| trmanco | but they still have some quality* | Sep 09 13:54 |
| twitter1 | ho ho, there was a report from Office Depot. | Sep 09 13:54 |
| twitter1 | that means the Best Buy rejection was more than an isolated incident. | Sep 09 13:54 |
| twitter1 | it's nice to think this was a common reaction. | Sep 09 13:55 |
| twitter1 | "Windows 7 more secure than GNU/Linux, like the stuff that runs Google and most of the web? Yeah, right!" | Sep 09 13:55 |
| twitter1 | -> Redmond has acknowledged the materials are authentic. | Sep 09 13:56 |
| twitter1 | wow | Sep 09 13:56 |
| schestowitz | "On Tuesday, Microsoft responded with MS09-048, a security advisory that fixes a variety of networking vulnerabilities in Windows operating systems, including those discovered by Louis and Lee." | Sep 09 13:56 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/microsoft_cisco_patch_tcp_vuln/ | Sep 09 13:56 |
| twitter1 | what I like is that these holes were left open for more than a year. | Sep 09 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Office Depot? | Sep 09 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Wait. | Sep 09 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Are they in it too? | Sep 09 13:57 |
| schestowitz | We have Staples and Best Buck [sic] | Sep 09 13:57 |
| twitter1 | yes, that's what the Reg article is about. | Sep 09 13:57 |
| twitter1 | remember the accusation that M$ left these holes open on purpose but fixed them in Vista 7 RTM, just so they could say "Windows 7 is the secure in ways that XP and Vista are not"? | Sep 09 13:59 |
| schestowitz | I like how they paint Linux is Red | Sep 09 13:59 |
| schestowitz | And Windows 7 in green | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | more on wise | Sep 09 13:59 |
| schestowitz | See the second image and first | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | “Please give me one good reason why we should even consider [enabling | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | Microsoft technology to work on competing systems]. (Hint: any good answer | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | needs to include making more money and helping kill Unix, Sybase or Oracle.)” | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | —James Allchin, Microsoft Senior Vice-President51" | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | wait | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | I'll past this on bn | Sep 09 13:59 |
| trmanco | paste* | Sep 09 13:59 |
| twitter1 | penguin in hellfire! | Sep 09 14:00 |
| schestowitz | It would look different if Linux background was green | Sep 09 14:01 |
| schestowitz | And Windows 7 in red | Sep 09 14:01 |
| schestowitz | They play psychological marketing game, | Sep 09 14:01 |
| schestowitz | Linux is fire and blood | Sep 09 14:01 |
| twitter1 | http://slashdot.org/submission/1055145/Windows-7-Security-Woes-and-the-M-RTM-Lie | Sep 09 14:01 |
| twitter1 | Software Communism! | Sep 09 14:01 |
| twitter1 | Let Big Brother Love and Watch you instead. | Sep 09 14:02 |
| schestowitz | Gangester | Sep 09 14:02 |
| schestowitz | *Gangsters | Sep 09 14:02 |
| twitter1 | Linux is selling his source code to the Red Chinese! | Sep 09 14:03 |
| *amarsh04__ is now known as amarsh04 | Sep 09 14:03 | |
| twitter1 | Uncle Ballmer would never do that. | Sep 09 14:03 |
| twitter1 | No matter Ho came to dinner. | Sep 09 14:04 |
| twitter1 | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/04/16/0227229 | Sep 09 14:05 |
| trmanco | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/09/mono-vs-wise/comment-page-1/#comment-73302 | Sep 09 14:05 |
| trmanco | there | Sep 09 14:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @wikileaks We need you! We now have to spend ALL our time fundraising. Help keep WikiLeaks PUBLISHING: http://bit.ly/1LTFX - please fwd | Sep 09 14:07 | |
| twitter1 | very well done. | Sep 09 14:07 |
| twitter1 | it's funny M$ thinks they can get away with the same tricks again and again. | Sep 09 14:08 |
| trmanco | the hole pdf is on bn anyway | Sep 09 14:08 |
| trmanco | whole* | Sep 09 14:08 |
| twitter1 | yes, but context is good. | Sep 09 14:09 |
| trmanco | lunch time brb | Sep 09 14:10 |
| twitter1 | All of Comes vs Microsoft is somewhere on the web. | Sep 09 14:10 |
| twitter1 | enjoy lunch | Sep 09 14:10 |
| trmanco | thanks | Sep 09 14:10 |
| twitter1 | pulling the threads together makes the whole valuable. | Sep 09 14:11 |
| twitter1 | Poor Kraft. Bought by Phillip Morris. Now comes cost cutting. | Sep 09 14:12 |
| twitter1 | PS3 Beatles game gets a lot of press. I suppose they are the ReFab 4 now. | Sep 09 14:16 |
| schestowitz | See last comment here: http://lwn.net/Articles/348468/ | Sep 09 14:16 |
| twitter1 | Joseph SHill? | Sep 09 14:17 |
| twitter1 | almost all the comments there are good. | Sep 09 14:19 |
| twitter1 | -> Sounds awfully similar to the arguments I was hearing 10-11 years ago when it was ActiveX which was going to pull World+dog into Microsoft's orbit as no other browser platform than IE would be able to handle the great content being made with ActiveX. | Sep 09 14:19 |
| twitter1 | -> Much like OfficeOpenXML will be over us all so we'd better welcome it over OpenDocument, because Microsoft will never implement the latter. Except they did, because customers demanded it. Just like they did with this thing called "the web" a couple of years ago. | Sep 09 14:19 |
| twitter1 | -> What do you think will be more successful: a web application framework created and implemented by Microsoft, a web application framework created and implemented by Adobe, or a web application framework created and implemented by Microsoft, Google, Apple, Mozilla, Nokia and a whole lot more companies? | Sep 09 14:20 |
| trmanco | last option | Sep 09 14:23 |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 14:24 | |
| twitter1 | bbl | Sep 09 14:28 |
| *twitter1 has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 09 14:28 | |
| *tacone (n=Adium@151.80.0.111) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 14:42 | |
| trmanco | schestowitz: have you posted the logs from yesterday? | Sep 09 14:44 |
| *DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 14:44 | |
| trmanco | I need to copy some links from there | Sep 09 14:44 |
| trmanco | found it | Sep 09 14:46 |
| trmanco | forget it | Sep 09 14:46 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: ys, they are up | Sep 09 14:47 |
| trmanco | yep seen them | Sep 09 14:47 |
| schestowitz | Here's an idea | Sep 09 14:48 |
| schestowitz | For those with extra time in their hands... to find out how many US stores flogged the anti-Linux material from Microsoft | Sep 09 14:49 |
| schestowitz | We have 3 large US retailers now | Sep 09 14:49 |
| schestowitz | None outside the US that we know about, yet | Sep 09 14:49 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna do another post exposing this and making an index in the Wiki | Sep 09 14:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Trying out the ubuntu-boot ppa from @keybuk. Scary. | Sep 09 14:49 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Confirmed: #Microsoft Brought Anti-GNU/Linux #Propaganda to #OfficeDepot Too (3rd US retailer so far) http://ping.fm/ttjDY | Sep 09 14:53 | |
| schestowitz | Tomorrow there will be Microsoft PR from Paris | Sep 09 14:54 |
| schestowitz | The whole interop thing | Sep 09 14:54 |
| schestowitz | More lies and pretence | Sep 09 14:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1532852/microsoft-bribes-best-buy-staff-slam-mac-linux "Whereas Windows 7's release candidate gave me a blue screen of death while running Abobe Illustrator yesterday.." | Sep 09 15:05 |
| schestowitz | But the fans of Window (shills for the most part) claim that BSoD is a thing of the past | Sep 09 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Seems like another VIsta | Sep 09 15:06 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't experience any in the RTM | Sep 09 15:08 |
| DaemonFC | I had plenty of them in the betas and RC | Sep 09 15:08 |
| trmanco | it will need to take a dump soon, just keep using it, but don't put heavy load on it, or else | Sep 09 15:13 |
| trmanco | those fuckers raised the price of 7! | Sep 09 15:16 |
| trmanco | "it was 49.99 for an upgrade and then I check today and it's 119.99 | Sep 09 15:16 |
| trmanco | ARGH! | Sep 09 15:16 |
| trmanco | (going from Vista to 7) | Sep 09 15:16 |
| trmanco | sons of biOOOOtches" | Sep 09 15:16 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 09 15:16 |
| trmanco | follow up | Sep 09 15:17 |
| trmanco | "Ubuntu FTW. Linux has changed my view of computers. Everything is much | Sep 09 15:17 |
| trmanco | easier and virus free. Don't take the plunge mate! Take the time to Linux!" | Sep 09 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | trmanco: the $50 was only for the first 2 weeks of preorders | Sep 09 15:17 |
| schestowitz | Google Will Seek EU Publishers’ Permission For US Books Project < http://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-google-will-seek-eu-publishers-permission-for-us-books-project/ > | Sep 09 15:18 |
| trmanco | they should have given a free upgrade to all the vista users | Sep 09 15:18 |
| trmanco | FREE! | Sep 09 15:18 |
| schestowitz | All Windows | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | And Office | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Old argument | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | About making Office obsolete | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Thtough format incompat | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Old tricks | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Managing to selll the same product over and over again | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | They say that's the "genius" of gates|Microsoft | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Only a monopolist can get away with it | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Upgrades are a but like patahces | Sep 09 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Except they get called Service Pack or the like of it | Sep 09 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 should be a SP for VIsta | Sep 09 15:20 |
| schestowitz | re: Google | Sep 09 15:20 |
| schestowitz | I want books digitised, but not by Google | Sep 09 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Make it an effort like socialism | Sep 09 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Make the books be managed by all of us | Sep 09 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Not Google | Sep 09 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Plasmonic Laser Heralds New Generation of Computing < http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/24093/ > | Sep 09 15:21 |
| schestowitz | China's new real-name requirement: another global trend http://rconversation.blogs.com/rconversation/2009/09/chinas-new-real-name-requirement-another-global-trend.html | Sep 09 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Russian Facebook Clone Planning International Expansion: Peculiar Competition to Facebook http://profy.com/2009/09/07/russian-facebook-clone-planning-international-expansion/ | Sep 09 15:24 |
| schestowitz | The Andrew Thomas shill is doing the job for Microsoft again | Sep 09 15:26 |
| schestowitz | Trying to portray them as innocent | Sep 09 15:26 |
| schestowitz | With a 'lovely' photo of Ballmer | Sep 09 15:26 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft cleared in Russian antitrust case" | Sep 09 15:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft 'buys' those journos | Sep 09 15:26 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 15:30 | |
| schestowitz | "Myhrvold is using the patent system in a way that does just the opposite. In thinking about how to reform the patent system, a good yardstick would be to look for policy changes that would tend to put Myhrvold and his firm out of business." http://timothyblee.com/?p=781 | Sep 09 15:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Tuning in to random numbers" < http://ping.fm/kYoPy > interesting, via @glynmoody | Sep 09 15:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody Another Reason Open Source is Better: No Abandonware - http://bit.ly/10K020 Microsoft gives up trying to patch Windows 2k | Sep 09 15:43 | |
| *tacone has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 15:46 | |
| schestowitz | Don't be fooled: swine flu still poses a deadly threat < http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17753-dont-be-fooled-swine-flu-still-poses-a-deadly-threat.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news > | Sep 09 15:46 |
| schestowitz | Is There Any Innovation That Hollywood Won't Try To Kill? http://techdirt.com/articles/20090907/0127156120.shtml | Sep 09 15:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another reason to dislike Big Media: "How The UK Gov't Extrapolated 136 Self-Reported File Sharers Into 7 Million" http://ping.fm/LeF8u | Sep 09 15:56 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Glenn Beck Didn't Rape And Murder Anyone... But He Doesn't Want Websites Discussing It < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090908/0321546127.shtml > | Sep 09 15:58 |
| schestowitz | ^^your b/f, DaemonFC | Sep 09 15:58 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC <3 Glenn | Sep 09 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | ... | Sep 09 16:01 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/rtb.php "Silence Techdirt" | Sep 09 16:01 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Sep 09 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Only $100ml | Sep 09 16:01 |
| schestowitz | Sprint Offers Palm Pre For $100 For A Month, Maybe Two... Then, Oops, Not At All < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090908/1504336131.shtml > | Sep 09 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | Streisand Effect | Sep 09 16:04 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Sep 09 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Biggest Windows glitch ever? http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/biggest_windows_glitch_ever.html?ana=from_rss | Sep 09 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Watch the picture | Sep 09 16:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Biggest Windows glitch ever? http://ping.fm/EeST4 | Sep 09 16:07 | |
| MinceR | FUD avalanche from m$ >> http://quaoar.ww7.be/ms_fud_of_the_year/569458-microsoft-attack-linux-retail-level-probably.html | Sep 09 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: http://www.projecthoneypot.org/faq.php | Sep 09 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | did you ever think about helping with that? | Sep 09 16:12 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: old news? | Sep 09 16:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.projecthoneypot.org/create_account.php | Sep 09 16:13 |
| MinceR | might be | Sep 09 16:13 |
| schestowitz | "..have read and understand the Privacy Policy." | Sep 09 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Spyware? | Sep 09 16:14 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: BN made 3 posts about it | Sep 09 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Soon 4 | Sep 09 16:14 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 09 16:14 |
| schestowitz | 4th is about Office Depot | Sep 09 16:14 |
| schestowitz | THey had this done there too | Sep 09 16:14 |
| schestowitz | And Staples had another thing | Sep 09 16:15 |
| schestowitz | Wal-Mart..? | Sep 09 16:15 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: can you find out about Wal-Mart? | Sep 09 16:15 |
| schestowitz | You used to work there | Sep 09 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Probably not | Sep 09 16:15 |
| schestowitz | Maybe former colleagues you can phone to ask if they got indocrinated? | Sep 09 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | they deleted my Pipeline/Wire login when I quit obviously | Sep 09 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 16:15 |
| schestowitz | Well done for quitting | Sep 09 16:16 |
| schestowitz | You don't need to help that beast | Sep 09 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I might be able to talk to one of the employees there who would have gotten such a module | Sep 09 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | if he still works there | Sep 09 16:16 |
| schestowitz | "An Obama administration official was pressured to resign by Republicans. They attacked him for calling Republicans "assholes", which is nothing compared to what they call Obama, and for doubting the official story of who was behind the 9/11 attacks." | Sep 09 16:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jul-oct.html#09%20September%202009%20%28Republicans%20pressured%20Obama%20official%29 | Sep 09 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | they would only give out the module to people who work at least part time in electronics | Sep 09 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | that would mean at least 16 hours a week in that department regularly | Sep 09 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Module... hehe | Sep 09 16:17 |
| schestowitz | Like robots on the production line | Sep 09 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | they don't give you the raise unless you work at least half your hours there though | Sep 09 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | for at least 3 weeks in a row | Sep 09 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Module #00f4 installed into $employee #555FGS5G | Sep 09 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | so they like to do things like 16 hours, 16 hours, 15 hours, repeat | Sep 09 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | they get to short you 50 cents an hour that way | Sep 09 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | they also do that with some of the hourly management so they can continue paying them cashier or stocker wages | Sep 09 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | if the assistant manager thinks he or she can dupe someone into working the extra responsibilities for free, they do it | Sep 09 16:19 |
| schestowitz | The likes of Wal-Mart still call the shots in USia though... http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/corporocracy.png | Sep 09 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: It only took me about 6 months of working there to become a department manager, and about another 6 months to go salary | Sep 09 16:21 |
| *magentar (n=magentar@ip-94-79-143-196.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 16:21 | |
| DaemonFC | some people stay there in the same position for years on end | Sep 09 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | well, most do | Sep 09 16:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/07/us-german-afghan-rift "German foreign minister calls attack 'necessary' as US commanders criticise ordering mission that left 70 civilians dead" | Sep 09 16:21 |
| schestowitz | More killing of innoncent | Sep 09 16:22 |
| schestowitz | They beg for resentment this wau | Sep 09 16:22 |
| schestowitz | *way | Sep 09 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | that's why I said get into management, get into college, or prepare to spend the rest of your life eating shit and grinning | Sep 09 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | you'll never get ahead in that company if you're paid by the hour | Sep 09 16:22 |
| schestowitz | Wal-Mart the Beast Eats Indiana | Sep 09 16:22 |
| schestowitz | Red-Stroe | Sep 09 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Rd-St*re | Sep 09 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | they'll give you raises that don't even work out to inflation each year | Sep 09 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Is there inflation? | Sep 09 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | inflation can go up 4-5% and you may only get a 30-40 cent raise | Sep 09 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | you figure it out :) | Sep 09 16:23 |
| schestowitz | In the US, have food prices risen sharply yet? | Sep 09 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Y'know, to help the many unemployed...? | Sep 09 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Not really, they've gone down actually | Sep 09 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | around here anyway | Sep 09 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart is in a vicious price war with ALDI | Sep 09 16:24 |
| schestowitz | ALDI? | Sep 09 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | they already ran a local grocery store out of town | Sep 09 16:24 |
| schestowitz | In the US? | Sep 09 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 09 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Isn't it Irish? | Sep 09 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | German | Sep 09 16:24 |
| schestowitz | Oh. | Sep 09 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | they're trying to out-cheap each other | Sep 09 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | so they're selling most grocery items below cost | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Well, you know who wins,.. | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | The one that mistreats the staff better and pays less | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Lower wages -> Power costs | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Everyone's happy, temporarily | Sep 09 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | as long as you either get it at ALDI or buy the generic Walmart groceries, you get a pretty good deal | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | /power/lower | Sep 09 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, can't go on forever obviously | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Good to whom? | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | People are dumb | Sep 09 16:25 |
| schestowitz | THey don't understand economic consequences | Sep 09 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: ALDI actually pays much better | Sep 09 16:26 |
| schestowitz | It's like Russia 15 years ago | Sep 09 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | they start out around $10 an hour here | Sep 09 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart starts at around $7.50 /hr | Sep 09 16:26 |
| schestowitz | But they also eliminate jobs | Sep 09 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Centralisation | Sep 09 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | ALDI is much more efficient in many ways | Sep 09 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Mom and pop shops mean more jobs IN THE HANDS OF WORKERS | Sep 09 16:27 |
| schestowitz | As in, those who work in 'the mills' own the mills | Sep 09 16:27 |
| schestowitz | I.e. collect the sweat of their brow | Sep 09 16:27 |
| schestowitz | People have a simplified model of things | Sep 09 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | there haven't been any real "mom and pop" stores I've seen in years | Sep 09 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | it's all owned by huge conglomerates | Sep 09 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | all of it | Sep 09 16:27 |
| schestowitz | THeir crocoddilian part of the brain tells them that it's OK to take orders from leaders | Sep 09 16:27 |
| schestowitz | It's not thinking | Sep 09 16:28 |
| schestowitz | It's following orders to put food in the table. THey pay the price much later | Sep 09 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The "local" chain that they drove out was actually taken over by an "asset management firm" in Florida | Sep 09 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | a few years ago | Sep 09 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | they used to be based in Indianapolis | Sep 09 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: When a Walmart Supercenter opens, the managers go around town sizing up the competition | Sep 09 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | and writing a report on how long it will take Walmart to run them out of business | Sep 09 16:29 |
| schestowitz | OK | Sep 09 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's not "if", it's "when" | Sep 09 16:29 |
| schestowitz | I've just realised that Konvesation doesn't use the KDE spellchecker | Sep 09 16:29 |
| schestowitz | This is not good | Sep 09 16:30 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: am I missing something? | Sep 09 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Does Konversation do in-line spellchecking? | Sep 09 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: There's a policy for management there that's called "Never be beaten" and it means precisely that | Sep 09 16:30 |
| schestowitz | New: Obama's offered HOPE is sweatshop slavery < http://open.salon.com/blog/ezili_danto/2009/04/09/obamas_offered_hope_is_sweatshop_slavery > | Sep 09 16:31 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 16:31 | |
| DaemonFC | it means use ANY tactics, even bordering on illegal, to crush the other stores | Sep 09 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Well, that's the Land of the Free (MArket) | Sep 09 16:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] 'Lying down' NHS staff suspended - petty or what? http://tinyurl.com/nyhuma | Sep 09 16:31 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I've helped them run out more than just one competing store | Sep 09 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | the one here was a Marsh supermarket, there was also a Scott's in another town | Sep 09 16:32 |
| schestowitz | "Staff at Swindon's Great Western Hospital face possible dismissal after posting online pictures of themselves taking part in the Lying Down Game." | Sep 09 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | I think I've mentioned before how the price comp thing works | Sep 09 16:33 |
| schestowitz | I've never come across this | Sep 09 16:33 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8246197.stm | Sep 09 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | you scan their items and punch in their price then dock the scanner with the store computer when you get back | Sep 09 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | and it will determine Walmart's new price, which is always about 10% lower | Sep 09 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | people are stupid | Sep 09 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, old trick | Sep 09 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | as long as you can be way cheaper on all the stuff they watch, you're good | Sep 09 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | bread, milk, eggs, breakfast cereals, canned soups, TV dinners | Sep 09 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | where you work in the profits is in all the stuff where people don't watch the prices | Sep 09 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | you can also be considerably more expensive than your competitors in many cases by just making it look like you cut the price to the bone | Sep 09 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | like if Kmart has a widget for $2.99, you can make your widget $3.44 | Sep 09 16:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Climate change: melting ice will trigger wave of natural disasters" http://ping.fm/roRce | Sep 09 16:35 | |
| DaemonFC | you actually make another 45 cents on each widget, but it registers in people's minds that you have it cheaper because of the oddball price point | Sep 09 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | another good one is a loss leader on every aisle endcap | Sep 09 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | a shitty emachine with Vista Basic ought to get them to look for a minute, decide they don't want it, and go down the aisle and end up getting a Dell with Vista Premium for $200-$300 more | Sep 09 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Sri Lanka expels UN official who criticised camps http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/06/sri-lanka-un-official-camps Yikes | Sep 09 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | a $30 no-name microwave with no features gets them going down the aisle, and they end up buying the $120 model | Sep 09 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Microwaves cause cancer | Sep 09 16:38 |
| schestowitz | ANd Microsoft is cancer :-p :-p | Sep 09 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | the endcaps are where all the ridiculously impossible generic cheap shit goes | Sep 09 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's not where you make your money, you're just setting them up to figure every item in the aisle is a good deal | Sep 09 16:39 |
| schestowitz | "Jacky Rowland was reporting Friday from the West Bank village of Bil'in, explaining to viewers about the separation fence and the weekly protests that take place there, when Israeli troops began firing tear gas at the protesters and then directly at her. " http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1112501.html | Sep 09 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Take more babies away from bad parents, says Barnardo's chief < http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/06/children-babies-parents-care-barnardos > There's hope for the kids at the Ballmer household | Sep 09 16:40 |
| schestowitz | "My children - in many dimensions they're as poorly behaved as many other children, but at least on this dimension I've got my kids brainwashed: You don't use Google, and you don't use an iPod." --steveb | Sep 09 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | I always set it up like that then plays around with the layout til I figured out where most people ended up throwing something in the cart | Sep 09 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | then I'd put whatever had the highest profit margin at that point | Sep 09 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | *played | Sep 09 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | the XBOX 360 is not doing well, I can tell that just by where they gave Microsoft their shelf space | Sep 09 16:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Brown -- like Obama -- defends banksters' 'right' to use taxpayers' money for bonuses. http://ping.fm/O4Q2B | Sep 09 16:42 | |
| schestowitz | Former president of Brazil says hardline war on drugs 'has failed' < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/06/brazil-cardoso-war-drugs-decriminalisation > I never did drugs, so..... | Sep 09 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | at least at the local store it looks like the PS3 is selling the best | Sep 09 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | followed by the Wii | Sep 09 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | then the PS2 | Sep 09 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | then the 360 | Sep 09 16:43 |
| schestowitz | 360 does OK in the US | Sep 09 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Home turf | Sep 09 16:43 |
| schestowitz | And the US press cites though numbers | Sep 09 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | it's not doing well | Sep 09 16:43 |
| schestowitz | It's embarassing outside the US | Sep 09 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Same with many fuigures | Sep 09 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | they're jsut not doing as poorly here as in most places | Sep 09 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Pretent US consumer is 'the WORLD' | Sep 09 16:44 |
| schestowitz | *pretend | Sep 09 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Damn. | Sep 09 16:44 |
| schestowitz | I need a spellchecker in this thing | Sep 09 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | they're actually doing better in Canada | Sep 09 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | considering the size of the market there | Sep 09 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The Zune was always the butt of all my jokes while I worked there | Sep 09 16:45 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&ei=ecGnSvvHGdefjAfNor2mCA&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=konversation+spell+check&spell=1 | Sep 09 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Zune was taken off shelves | Sep 09 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Not by consumers | Sep 09 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | I kept telling people that the punishment on my watch was having to dust the Zune case | Sep 09 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Back to the warehouse | Sep 09 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Overstocked | Sep 09 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Sep 09 16:45 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it sold well..... on CLEARANCE | Sep 09 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I don't even want one on CLEARANCE | Sep 09 16:46 |
| schestowitz | LOL @ "I kept telling people that the punishment on my watch was having to dust the Zune case" | Sep 09 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | I had the chance to get a 4 gig model Zune for $50 or a 4 gig Sansa Fuze for $40 | Sep 09 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | the Fuze actually not only plays FLAC and Vorbis in addition to all the formats Zune supports, but it has an expansion slot | Sep 09 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | for Micro SD cards | Sep 09 16:47 |
| schestowitz | Ah!!!!!!!!!1 | Sep 09 16:47 |
| schestowitz | Got it | Sep 09 16:47 |
| schestowitz | http://konversation.kde.org/wiki/Konversation_Tips_and_Tricks "Right click the text input line and select Auto Spell Check. " | Sep 09 16:47 |
| schestowitz | Spellcheck's in da house! | Sep 09 16:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Free Ad Space | The Digital Prism - Terms & Conditions apply http://tinyurl.com/lbtyer | Sep 09 16:47 | |
| schestowitz | Zune might be disconteinued altogether | Sep 09 16:47 |
| schestowitz | The team is jumping ship, still | Sep 09 16:47 |
| schestowitz | It has no distinguihser | Sep 09 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Except "squirting" maybe | Sep 09 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I got to try one out before they launched | Sep 09 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | it took me about 2 minutes to tell for sure I hated it | Sep 09 16:48 |
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| schestowitz | HD stands for hardly dead | Sep 09 16:49 |
| schestowitz | Just. ALmost. There. Now. | Sep 09 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | the first model was just a rebranded Toshiba Gigabeat S | Sep 09 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | with added wifi | Sep 09 16:49 |
| wallclimber | Hi! | Sep 09 16:49 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: we in Monty Python mode? "I'm not dead" "Yes you are" "I feel better" "You're not fooling anyone you know" | Sep 09 16:49 |
| wallclimber | I just left a comment on the Gartner article...i replied to another comment by "glen" | Sep 09 16:49 |
| ThistleWeb | hey all btw | Sep 09 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Hey, ThistleWeb, wallclimber | Sep 09 16:50 |
| wallclimber | :) | Sep 09 16:50 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, it was a tosh wince pda | Sep 09 16:50 |
| schestowitz | BAr the features | Sep 09 16:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @thistleweb : how about BN ads (or just link)? ;-) | Sep 09 16:50 | |
| schestowitz | Like Web browsing for the wifi | Sep 09 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | Me at the meeting on Christmas Eve: "OK, you've all heard about Charlie Brown and the little Christmas Tree nobody loved. Go con your relatives into buying a Zune or something" | Sep 09 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 09 16:50 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: almost caught up now, can do next Comes exhibit | Sep 09 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Mandriva has Wine 1.1.29 with their Pulseaudio driver included now | Sep 09 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | means no more funky audio cutouts | Sep 09 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 09 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | if you use the RPM bundles from WineHQ you lose the Pulseaudio driver | Sep 09 16:52 |
| schestowitz | "glen" created an account just to say "bye" | Sep 09 16:52 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: you want included in the free ad thing? | Sep 09 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | I have no idea why they don't make that thing officially a part of Wine | Sep 09 16:52 |
| wallclimber | which one? I let everyone work from home today, needed a quiet workday here. So if it's not a lot of pages I can do it now | Sep 09 16:52 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: no audio issues here | Sep 09 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | it solves practically every Wine/Pulseaudio pain in the ass you can run into | Sep 09 16:53 |
| schestowitz | None so far | Sep 09 16:53 |
| schestowitz | No downtimes since I set up this machine, either | Sep 09 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I Suseified my Mandriva | Sep 09 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 09 16:53 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: sure, if you can. BN does no blogroll, never did sadly.. | Sep 09 16:53 |
| ThistleWeb | I think I may need a script or plugin to rotate these automatically | Sep 09 16:53 |
| ThistleWeb | my offer requires nothing in return, it's fine | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: SUSE=SLAB? | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Mono? | Sep 09 16:54 |
| ThistleWeb | in fact I'll put you on the blogroll | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I have an image revolver | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Hold ob. | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | *on | Sep 09 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Yes | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | Is PHP good | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | ? | Sep 09 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | I like the SLAB menu | Sep 09 16:54 |
| ThistleWeb | that'd be better | Sep 09 16:54 |
| schestowitz | It'ds a script you put in a folder with the images to cycle through | Sep 09 16:55 |
| ThistleWeb | does it change the links too? | Sep 09 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You have to revert to the normal GNOME menus from the Mandriva Control Center | Sep 09 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | else the Application Browser sorts everything wrong | Sep 09 16:56 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: http://ma.tt/scripts/randomimage/ | Sep 09 16:56 |
| schestowitz | I've used it since 2005 | Sep 09 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Tomboy is not part of the default setup | Sep 09 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | Mono and Beagle are still here | Sep 09 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | Gnote is in the repository | Sep 09 16:57 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: ah, links might be tricky | Sep 09 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder if Mandriva is getting ready to part ways with Mono | Sep 09 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Maybe | Sep 09 16:57 |
| schestowitz | It's not leaving kde | Sep 09 16:57 |
| schestowitz | Not as KDE4 matures well | Sep 09 16:57 |
| schestowitz | It could soon refocus on kde | Sep 09 16:58 |
| schestowitz | Seems like kde 4.0 had them explore more of the gnome option | Sep 09 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | I replaced the Desktop Search backend with Tracker | Sep 09 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | Tracker does as good a job as Beagle with half the RAM use | Sep 09 16:58 |
| schestowitz | historically, like SUSE, it's a kde distro | Sep 09 16:58 |
| trmanco | so much for mono being slim | Sep 09 16:58 |
| schestowitz | GNOME is more liked by the Spanish crowd, I think | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Maybe related to some other factors | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | But Brazil schools chose kde | Sep 09 16:59 |
| trmanco | because it was initially baked by a mexican? | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | They'll have good times wit kde4 | Sep 09 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | trmanco: The whole idea about Mono saving space is that the runtime handles a lot of things so the applications can theoretically be a bit smaller | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: likely so | Sep 09 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | they still balloon in RAM usage when you load them though | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Many gnome devs have spanish name | Sep 09 16:59 |
| trmanco | "theoretically" | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | KDE is Germany-based | Sep 09 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Kuegler et al | Sep 09 17:00 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 09 17:00 |
| ThistleWeb | looking for wp ad plugins and found this one >> http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/datafeedr-ads/ | Sep 09 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | so you may save a few megs hard disk space but use 50 megs more RAM when you load the application | Sep 09 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Mono is Massachusetts | Sep 09 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Made by two Microsoft folks | Sep 09 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Nat and Mig | Sep 09 17:00 |
| trmanco | DaemonFC: you said "theoretically" | Sep 09 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | well yeah | Sep 09 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | well, Mono applications are every bit as bad as .Net on Windows | Sep 09 17:01 |
| trmanco | that's what they usually sau | Sep 09 17:01 |
| trmanco | say* | Sep 09 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | I tried using CDBurnerXP on Windows and it ate all my RAM and crashed Vista | Sep 09 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | ruined the DVD I was trying to burn | Sep 09 17:02 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 09 17:02 |
| trmanco | I've used that app before with no problems, when I used windows | Sep 09 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | it works better on XP | Sep 09 17:02 |
| DaemonFC | much better | Sep 09 17:03 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Sep 09 17:03 |
| schestowitz | I never though about crashes while burning | Sep 09 17:03 |
| schestowitz | My OS never crashes actually | Sep 09 17:03 |
| DaemonFC | I've never seen a disc burning program eat 3.5 GB of RAM, attack the swap file, and freeze the machine before | Sep 09 17:03 |
| DaemonFC | first time for everything I guess | Sep 09 17:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Republican caught out having *heterosexual* intercourse http://is.gd/352lw | Sep 09 17:03 | |
| schestowitz | 3.5 GB of RAM is OK for average Vista 7 dabbler | Sep 09 17:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats news alright | Sep 09 17:04 |
| schestowitz | People who test the thing are computer enthusiasts who love Microsoft | Sep 09 17:04 |
| *schestowitz watches the video | Sep 09 17:05 | |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: that datafeedr plugin looks great, I can set up groups etc and it rotates them for me | Sep 09 17:05 |
| trmanco | "Buying a new Windows, why not get a new computer with that?" | Sep 09 17:05 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: there are also hypermark revolvers | Sep 09 17:06 |
| schestowitz | I use one | Sep 09 17:06 |
| schestowitz | For quotes that change | Sep 09 17:06 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah I thought about that before. I may still use that. I love quotes from peeps like Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett | Sep 09 17:07 |
| schestowitz | Haha. Great video. Owned. Career ruined. | Sep 09 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I could just never really get used to KDE 4, I know it's supposed to be more Windows-like, that's debatable | Sep 09 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | I've always jsut found myself going back to GNOME | Sep 09 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | I think the debate is mostly academic except for a point here or there | Sep 09 17:12 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 is like KDE3, better | Sep 09 17:12 |
| schestowitz | More features, some features missing, everything working better overall | Sep 09 17:12 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The last time I was using KDE regularly it was like 2.x | Sep 09 17:13 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME was unthinkable | Sep 09 17:13 |
| schestowitz | The architecture underneath is improved, so it's better with RAM and CPU (I feel so) and it's more reliable (again, for me anyway) | Sep 09 17:13 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME was still on 1.4 at the time according to Wikipedia | Sep 09 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | which is about where I remembered it | Sep 09 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | if you think GNOME is inconsistent now, you should have seen 1.x | Sep 09 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | no two applications looked or worked remotely the same | Sep 09 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | it was one giant free for all | Sep 09 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Websites 'breaking consumer laws' < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8245799.stm > | Sep 09 17:14 |
| DaemonFC | I installed GNOME as part of Red Hat Linux because I had no idea what I was doing | Sep 09 17:15 |
| DaemonFC | no such thing as a Live CD or "sane defaults" back then so I ended up installing every desktop it had and trying them all | Sep 09 17:16 |
| schestowitz | "Go !FSF! Thanks for protecting GFDL licensed works! !CC, why aren't you filing suits like this? http://ur1.ca/bc56" http://identi.ca/notice/9668046 | Sep 09 17:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Dear BBC. Please get tech journos with more clue. http://bit.ly/Xo4zI is embarassing to watch. You're perpetuating nonsense. No love, Al. | Sep 09 17:19 | |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Sep 09 17:20 |
| schestowitz | :"Windows Windows Windows ..." --BBC/Ballmer | Sep 09 17:20 |
| schestowitz | BillBallmerCorporation | Sep 09 17:21 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, the SecuROM crap is back for some reason using Mandriva's build of Wine | Sep 09 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | should I file a bug on this? | Sep 09 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | I think I will | Sep 09 17:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4174 | Sep 09 17:26 |
| schestowitz | http://ocw.tufts.edu/Course/57/Coursehome <-- Blender 3D Design, Spring 2008 | Sep 09 17:28 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: do you do rendering? | Sep 09 17:28 |
| wallclimber | it depends on what needs rendering...tell me what you need | Sep 09 17:29 |
| schestowitz | I was just asking cause of Blender | Sep 09 17:31 |
| schestowitz | 3-D rendering is fun | Sep 09 17:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bigbuckbunny.org/ | Sep 09 17:31 |
| wallclimber | ahhh, 3-D rendering. No, I can draw most anything with a pen and some paper, and do pretty well with vector art, but i'm an illustrator for print, mostly. I've only played around a bit with Maya and blender and some others I've forgotten. | Sep 09 17:33 |
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| wallclimber | if i were younger i think i'd have been VERY interested in learning 3-d - and i love good animation, but i've been an illustrator for about 40 years now (give or take) so i'm probably never going to do much 3-d...but you never know | Sep 09 17:35 |
| wallclimber | to be honest, blender is a little intimidating...and you know how old people are, they hate to learn new stuff lol | Sep 09 17:35 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. http://www.cringely.com/2009/09/burn-baby-burn/ | Sep 09 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Just seen the above... a moment ago | Sep 09 17:37 |
| wallclimber | (reading it now) | Sep 09 17:38 |
| schestowitz | "That’s a huge savings compared to the $200,000+ an MIT-level education would cost today (remember the MIT online degree — there is one — costs the same as if you were attending in Cambridge)." | Sep 09 17:38 |
| schestowitz | High education = a system for ensuring the rich stays rich | Sep 09 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Cambridge even offers favouritism to kids of Cambridge elumni | Sep 09 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Alumni | Sep 09 17:39 |
| schestowitz | A well known fact | Sep 09 17:39 |
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| schestowitz | Selling certificates to block equality | Sep 09 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Very corrupt, yet unquestionable system for the most part | Sep 09 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Like the USPTO, it should be susceptible to a lot more criticism | Sep 09 17:40 |
| schestowitz | US health care system is still a fiasco, too | Sep 09 17:40 |
| schestowitz | Big Pharmas...... | Sep 09 17:40 |
| schestowitz | WHere to begin...? | Sep 09 17:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.cringely.com/2009/09/women-and-children-first/ "Lehman Brothers would still be in business, Bear Stearns, too. Merrill Lynch would be independent. AIG would not have failed. Even Bernie Madoff would probably still be in business — at least for awhile." | Sep 09 17:41 |
| schestowitz | I like his writings.. | Sep 09 17:41 |
| schestowitz | "There are 51 million mortgages in America and the average mortgage payment in 2006 was $1686, so paying everyone’s mortgage for six months would have cost $516 billion — hundreds of billions less than the Bush/Paulson/Obama/Geithner/Bernanke plan, and quicker, too." | Sep 09 17:41 |
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| DaemonFC | heh | Sep 09 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | found the problem | Sep 09 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | Wine in Mandriva doesn't attach a Windows drive letter to your disc drive | Sep 09 17:42 |
| schestowitz | "When the “unsinkable” ship Titanic hit an iceberg and sank on its maiden voyage in 1911, as any teenage girl will tell you, the rich people got nearly all the lifeboats (except for John Jacob Astor IV who ordered another drink, giving up his seat), dooming the lower-class passengers including, of course, poor Leonardo DiCaprio." | Sep 09 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | so I made my DVD drive F:\ in Wine | Sep 09 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | hey, if it's happy, I'm happy | Sep 09 17:43 |
| schestowitz | "Much the same thing seems to be happening in the case of the current economic crisis, where the people who are hurting the most seem to be getting the least. I’m beginning to believe the crisis could have been fixed quicker and cheaper simply by helping the women and children instead of the bankers." | Sep 09 17:43 |
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| wallclimber | yes, they helped the bankers, then rearranged some deck shairs...the band is now playing "Nearer My God To Thee" waiting for the fishies to surround them | Sep 09 17:45 |
| wallclimber | glug glug glug | Sep 09 17:46 |
| wallclimber | *chairs* | Sep 09 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Chip Maker VIA joins the Linux Foundation < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/145088 > | Sep 09 17:47 |
| wallclimber | however, as Rhett Butler once told Scarlett, there's more money to be made in the destruction of a civilization than in the building of one...we'll see | Sep 09 17:47 |
| wallclimber | Life does seem to go on, no matter what... | Sep 09 17:48 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: I don't know if the rumours are true about eugenics | Sep 09 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Sep 09 17:49 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: not for everyone.. ("Life does seem to go on, no matter what..."). See what happens in most of the world('s population) | Sep 09 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | packages are hitting Cooker faster than they hit Ubuntu's development branch | Sep 09 17:49 |
| DaemonFC | that update manager alerts me about every hour, hehe | Sep 09 17:49 |
| schestowitz | In Afghanistan just now, innocent civilians had planes from the sky fry them | Sep 09 17:50 |
| schestowitz | 70 deaths of innocent people. Little "oops" on the radar... now, if that happened in US soil, you'd hear about it | Sep 09 17:50 |
| schestowitz | *on | Sep 09 17:50 |
| DaemonFC | according to the Taliban and the Taliban news agency? | Sep 09 17:51 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 17:51 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Sep 09 17:51 |
| wallclimber | well, it was meant in a general sense...even the worst most inhumane events in history didn't manage to stop humanity from continuing. | Sep 09 17:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/07/us-german-afghan-rift "German foreign minister calls attack 'necessary' as US commanders criticise ordering mission that left 70 civilians dead" | Sep 09 17:52 |
| DaemonFC | next best thing | Sep 09 17:52 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: history of human kind is short | Sep 09 17:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Watching Wendy Seltzer's SELF talk on Copyright | Sep 09 17:52 | |
| schestowitz | Less than 200,000 years some say | Sep 09 17:52 |
| schestowitz | That's nothing | Sep 09 17:53 |
| schestowitz | And look how fast we ruined so much in one century (20th) | Sep 09 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Whaling, deforestation, extinctions, satellite garbage, water pollution, lack of fossil fuel soon | Sep 09 17:54 |
| wallclimber | it isn't good to be glib and dismissive of humanity's self-destructive tendencies, but it's also self-defeating to give into them. Fear freezes people's hearts, and they can't function when they give into fear. that's all i'm saying. no matter what happens, we have to retain our ability to live and deal with whatever life throws our direction. | Sep 09 17:54 |
| schestowitz | But this justifies ignoring climate change | Sep 09 17:55 |
| schestowitz | As in, "let our kids figure out a way out of this mess we cause" | Sep 09 17:55 |
| schestowitz | I don't have kids and grandkids yet, but when I do, then these questions will bother me more | Sep 09 17:55 |
| schestowitz | I see what friends who are older are saying | Sep 09 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Some just don't want to talk about it because it depresses them | Sep 09 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'll let your kids figure it out as they choke to death on the polluted smoking shell this generation leaves behind | Sep 09 17:56 |
| schestowitz | It's serious stuff, ryan | Sep 09 17:56 |
| schestowitz | You guys in Wal-martown don't mind much | Sep 09 17:57 |
| schestowitz | Sell, sell, sell, win, win, win | Sep 09 17:57 |
| DaemonFC | has nothing to do with Walmart | Sep 09 17:57 |
| schestowitz | But it's an innate things | Sep 09 17:57 |
| schestowitz | There will be destruction not due to economics, which are man-made | Sep 09 17:57 |
| schestowitz | nAtural reosuces like air are what really should have monetary value | Sep 09 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Just not yet | Sep 09 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | I don't care because there's nothing I can do about it and even if I could, I won't live to see it | Sep 09 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Cause it's abundant | Sep 09 17:58 |
| schestowitz | If you had lived in Mars where oxygen is 50 times thinner, then you'd sell air too | Sep 09 17:58 |
| wallclimber | yes, those things will certainly be part of the challenges our young generations must face. the best we can do is teach them how to problem-solve, and how to survive in difficult times. i think what gets forgotten is how many times people have risen to the tasks at hand, in very heroic ways. i haven't had an easy life, but i've survived it with a sense of pride in my ability to survive. | Sep 09 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Or 'import' it | Sep 09 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Or manufactuire some with plants | Sep 09 17:58 |
| schestowitz | We're not suitable for life elsewhere | Sep 09 17:59 |
| schestowitz | It's a pipedream | Sep 09 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Even Hawkins talks about it | Sep 09 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Cause he understands the inevitability | Sep 09 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, if climate change could be bombed and was going to wipe us out in 10 years instead of 100 | Sep 09 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | we'd have the problem solved overnight | Sep 09 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Even the DNA with millions of 'bits' don't have anything to prevent it | Sep 09 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Let alone the 3 'layers' in the brain. | Sep 09 17:59 |
| schestowitz | It's doomed to inflate and then lead to deflation | Sep 09 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Like many animals | Sep 09 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: What's the difference anyway? | Sep 09 18:00 |
| schestowitz | 99% of the Earth's creatures are extinct | Sep 09 18:00 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: not for us | Sep 09 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | would you rather it be an asteroid or the sun growing hotter and hotter and boiling away the oceans and burning the atmosphere? | Sep 09 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | everything on this planet will be dead eventually | Sep 09 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | wiped out | Sep 09 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Sun is not an issue | Sep 09 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | whether we do it or a natural disaster does it | Sep 09 18:01 |
| schestowitz | It has billions of years to still burn gases | Sep 09 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but Earth wouldn't have that long | Sep 09 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Asteroids are rare | Sep 09 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Comets are frequent | Sep 09 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | the sun would growing hotter as it ages, right? | Sep 09 18:01 |
| schestowitz | One in the early 1900s for instance | Sep 09 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Don't think si | Sep 09 18:02 |
| schestowitz | *so | Sep 09 18:02 |
| schestowitz | But the atmosphere grows thinner | Sep 09 18:02 |
| schestowitz | And Venus serves as a lesson of what it entails | Sep 09 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Or was it Mercury? | Sep 09 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | the Earth has another billion years under ideal conditions before it can't even support bacteria anymore | Sep 09 18:02 |
| schestowitz | Billion is lots of time | Sep 09 18:03 |
| DaemonFC | that's if nothing happens between now and then | Sep 09 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Even a million is a lot | Sep 09 18:03 |
| wallclimber | but i'll bet the cockroaches will live on | Sep 09 18:03 |
| wallclimber | :) | Sep 09 18:03 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: that always do | Sep 09 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Like SCO | Sep 09 18:03 |
| DaemonFC | statistically there will be another asteroid like the one that killed the dinosaurs several more times between then and now | Sep 09 18:03 |
| schestowitz | It's like the movie plot. Cockroches and McBrides are eternally alive | Sep 09 18:03 |
| DaemonFC | or bigger | Sep 09 18:04 |
| schestowitz | /s/that /they/ | Sep 09 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | *now and then | Sep 09 18:04 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: wait | Sep 09 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Dinosaus were not killed this way. It's just a theory | Sep 09 18:04 |
| wallclimber | not to change the subject (doom and gloom is always quite fascinating), but i can do a comes doc now if you want...which one? | Sep 09 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | humans don't have long left anyway | Sep 09 18:04 |
| zlg | mars used to have an atmosphere and liquid water on it's surface, but runaway greenhouse, and ozone stripping destroyed it's "environment". | Sep 09 18:04 |
| schestowitz | One among several | Sep 09 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | evolution would have to start again | Sep 09 18:04 |
| DaemonFC | from small mammals or whatever happens to survive | Sep 09 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | if anything | Sep 09 18:05 |
| schestowitz | Thanks, mutex | Sep 09 18:05 |
| schestowitz | I guess. | Sep 09 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: The Earth is one giant temp agency | Sep 09 18:05 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: see http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/px06394.pdf | Sep 09 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | inhabited by whatever is living on it at the moment | Sep 09 18:06 |
| wallclimber | Daemon, that's priceless | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | “Linux is a cult that captures the best-and-brightest kids.” | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | –Jim Gray (Microsoft Research) | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | Nathan Myhrvold (CTO) | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | The pragmatic answer is that much of the “trend” towards free software is very likely due to the novelty of the Internet. | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | [...] | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | Although many people claim that Linux is growing, my bet is that if you subtract out web servers and related new niches, the growth is much more modest. | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | [...] | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | If nobody can beat Linux and Apache with commercial products, then shame on all of us in the industry! | Sep 09 18:06 |
| wallclimber | Okay, will get 'er done | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | [...] | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | In [a world where the operating system is much cheaper] you could postulate some sort of socialist ideal where the OS is some Linux like public domain thing. | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | [...] | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | So, [a world where the operating system is much cheaper] is a nightmare. The system software industry is sucked dry, undermining the foundations of computing. It surely is not an idyllic vision of the future. [...] Only some draconian force – such a misguided government – would put the industry in this sad situation. | Sep 09 18:06 |
| schestowitz | you can reuse the text above | Sep 09 18:06 |
| wallclimber | back in a bit... | Sep 09 18:07 |
| schestowitz | Thanks a lot! | Sep 09 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | time to find my no dvd crack for Oblivion | Sep 09 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 18:07 |
| MinceR | lol | Sep 09 18:07 |
| MinceR | the internet is so new | Sep 09 18:07 |
| wallclimber | ha! I didn't realize it before now, but today is 09-09-09... (ok, it's true, i'm easily entertained by trivial things :) | Sep 09 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Mono-nono site seems to have gone to sleep | Sep 09 18:10 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: yeah, I thought about it the other day | Sep 09 18:10 |
| schestowitz | He's to 10-10-10 | Sep 09 18:10 |
| MinceR | there was also 09-09-09 09:09:09 | Sep 09 18:10 |
| schestowitz | In 1 year, one month and 1 day from now | Sep 09 18:11 |
| wallclimber | I think that was just a platform for jo shields to make points on... | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: damn, I missed it | Sep 09 18:11 |
| wallclimber | (meaning mononono) | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@boycottnovell ~]$ uname -a | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | Linux boycottnovell.com 2.6.18-128.1.10.el5xen #1 SMP Thu May 7 11:07:18 EDT 2009 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@boycottnovell ~]$ date | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | Wed Sep 9 09:20:02 PDT 2009 | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | [boycottn@boycottnovell ~]$ | Sep 09 18:11 |
| schestowitz | 11 minutes ago in San Diego | Sep 09 18:11 |
| *tacone1 (n=Adium@151.82.7.244) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 18:20 | |
| *tacone1 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 18:24 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Just printed to the HP 6310 from iPhoto on the Mac and F-Spot on Ubuntu. Remarkably similar experience. All worked no issues. | Sep 09 18:27 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.lenzg.net/archives/276-FrOSConOpenSQL-Camp-summary.html | Sep 09 18:32 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 09 18:34 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.248.137.182) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 18:47 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | Sep 09 18:47 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u don't sleep at all ? | Sep 09 18:47 |
| MinceR | the devil never sleeps | Sep 09 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | hi twitter ! | Sep 09 18:50 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _Hicham_ | Sep 09 18:52 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: used this? http://stick.gk2.sk/blog/2009/09/svg-edit-2-3-is-out/ | Sep 09 18:55 |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 9 18:57:16 2009 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 9 18:57:16 2009 | ||
| schestowitz | http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0230744087/disruptiorguk-21 released | Sep 09 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_: What he said | Sep 09 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 09 18:59 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 09 19:00 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : did u take ur pill ? | Sep 09 19:01 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : did u see the trolling session of DaemonFC after u left ? | Sep 09 19:03 |
| schestowitz | oldie: Banks Eye Linux From Sidelines < http://www.americanbanker.com/btn_issues/13_3/-121145-1.html > | Sep 09 19:04 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I took a glimpse | Sep 09 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Did he cr*pflood well? | Sep 09 19:05 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : no, repetitive as always | Sep 09 19:06 |
| _Hicham_ | nothing new | Sep 09 19:06 |
| _Hicham_ | he is just a parrot | Sep 09 19:07 |
| _Hicham_ | the same oldies | Sep 09 19:07 |
| _Hicham_ | I told him to go take his pills, but he was already deep in his hallucinations | Sep 09 19:08 |
| schestowitz | Nice GDM themes for Ubuntu and Gnome (with installation guide ) http://www.unixmen.com/linux-tutorials/361-nice-gdm-themes-for-ubuntu-and-gnome-with-installation-guide- | Sep 09 19:08 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: At City Hall in Minneapolis , he made the Hall of shame.. the Wanted List | Sep 09 19:10 |
| schestowitz | He was banned from Ubuntu Forums :-) | Sep 09 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | one of me anyway | Sep 09 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Judge Rejects Credit Rating Firms’ Free-Speech Claims http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/09/03/judge-rejects-credit-rating-firms-free-speech-claims/ | Sep 09 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Moody's are corrupt, criminal even | Sep 09 19:15 |
| schestowitz | They sell recommendations | Sep 09 19:15 |
| schestowitz | http://glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com/ | Sep 09 19:16 |
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/asus-eee-reader/ New Asus Color E-Reader Folds Like a Book | Sep 09 19:18 |
| schestowitz | Why try to emulate antiquated paradigms | Sep 09 19:18 |
| schestowitz | ? | Sep 09 19:18 |
| zlg | paradigm darwinism | Sep 09 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : did u see this : http://verofakto.blogspot.com/2009/07/what-wacky-web-we-weave.html ? | Sep 09 19:25 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Better caching method? | Sep 09 19:28 |
| tessier | Is that different thatn the current one? | Sep 09 19:28 |
| schestowitz | Yes, it caches queries | Sep 09 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Not pags | Sep 09 19:34 |
| schestowitz | *pages | Sep 09 19:34 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's one of those trolls whom I think is somehow associated with Mono. Don't feed those stalkers. | Sep 09 19:35 |
| trmanco | oh | Sep 09 19:35 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: no? | Sep 09 19:35 |
| trmanco | I didn't say anything | Sep 09 19:35 |
| trmanco | :-P | Sep 09 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Based on what I read | Sep 09 19:35 |
| trmanco | you are right | Sep 09 19:35 |
| _Hicham_ | wow, he seems to be here all the time | Sep 09 19:35 |
| trmanco | I wasn't referring to that | Sep 09 19:36 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I'll swap over to it and see how it works after it caches some queries | Sep 09 19:36 |
| _Hicham_ | I am wondering who is this person | Sep 09 19:36 |
| *schestowitz makes backups | Sep 09 19:36 | |
| trmanco | It should work better | Sep 09 19:36 |
| trmanco | then with some gzip mixed into it | Sep 09 19:37 |
| trmanco | it should be perfect | Sep 09 19:37 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I don't think bandwidth is the issue | Sep 09 19:37 |
| trmanco | ah ok | Sep 09 19:37 |
| trmanco | then no need for gzip then | Sep 09 19:37 |
| schestowitz | It's dynamic page delivery and all | Sep 09 19:37 |
| tessier | Ah. Query caching should indeed help. | Sep 09 19:37 |
| trmanco | tessier: there is nothing you can do server side is there? | Sep 09 19:38 |
| trmanco | like memcached or something | Sep 09 19:39 |
| tessier | trmanco: Query caching is server side. | Sep 09 19:40 |
| tessier | But to use memcached would require changes be made to wordpress code. The app has to be written to use it. | Sep 09 19:40 |
| tessier | There may be such a plugin for wordpress, I don't know. | Sep 09 19:40 |
| trmanco | http://ryan.wordpress.com/2005/12/23/memcached-backend/ | Sep 09 19:41 |
| trmanco | this is old | Sep 09 19:41 |
| tessier | I really don't do wordpress. This is the first time I have encountered it. Nowadays I do mostly django. | Sep 09 19:41 |
| trmanco | yes, you need a plugin | Sep 09 19:41 |
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| tessier | I am writing my own blog app (copied from a django book) so that I can redo tracyreed.org | Sep 09 19:41 |
| trmanco | heh, python :) | Sep 09 19:41 |
| tessier | I am working on getting plone out of my servers. | Sep 09 19:42 |
| _Hicham_ | migrating to a new CMS ? | Sep 09 19:42 |
| tessier | I like python so far. There aren't a whole lot of choices really. Ruby or Python are about it. | Sep 09 19:42 |
| tessier | _Hicham_: Yes. | Sep 09 19:42 |
| _Hicham_ | python is the best | Sep 09 19:43 |
| _Hicham_ | vive python | Sep 09 19:43 |
| tessier | I think so too. | Sep 09 19:43 |
| tessier | Ruby isn't bad but it is pretty similar to perl and not different enough from python to make it worth learning over python. | Sep 09 19:43 |
| tessier | Next will be scheme and then Haskell. | Sep 09 19:43 |
| tessier | Then I should be pretty well rounded. | Sep 09 19:44 |
| tessier | Would like to know C better but I just don't have much use for it these days. | Sep 09 19:44 |
| trmanco | lots of stuff is turning to the web | Sep 09 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | python is compact | Sep 09 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | with python we write less and create more | Sep 09 19:47 |
| trmanco | hmm | Sep 09 19:47 |
| _Hicham_ | with python, a lot of error detection mechanisms are automated | Sep 09 19:47 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I can't seem to connect wit fish:// | Sep 09 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Though ssh is working | Sep 09 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Could be be an issue with my client side? | Sep 09 19:48 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Ryan's memcache is very old | Sep 09 19:49 |
| schestowitz | I remember taking about it in the mailing lists | Sep 09 19:49 |
| schestowitz | It got canned | Sep 09 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Too many issues | Sep 09 19:49 |
| trmanco | hmmm | Sep 09 19:49 |
| trmanco | then I hope that plugin solves your problem | Sep 09 19:50 |
| schestowitz | fish just uses ssh, right? or scp? | Sep 09 19:50 |
| schestowitz | And scp uses ssh/openssh? | Sep 09 19:50 |
| trmanco | I don't know what fish is | Sep 09 19:50 |
| tessier | I don't know what fish is either | Sep 09 19:51 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I've enabled the new plugin | Sep 09 19:55 |
| schestowitz | It ought to cache db queries it says | Sep 09 19:56 |
| schestowitz | tessier: fish:// in Konqueror uses SCP to display a remote server's account as a filesystem/directort | Sep 09 19:56 |
| schestowitz | So I can browse the server as though it's a local directory and commit changes to it | Sep 09 19:57 |
| tessier | mysql is still getting pounded. Can you tell if the cache is growing? Or what the hit rate is? | Sep 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | I emptied the kde wallet, but still haven't managed to work it ough | Sep 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I'm trying to find if there's a front-end panel to this | Sep 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Sep 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Found one | Sep 09 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Expire a cached query after: 5 mins | Sep 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | I can change that | Sep 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | I enabled it just 2 minutes ago BTW | Sep 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | SO it hasn't had time to cache much | Sep 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Sep 09 19:58 |
| schestowitz | It wasn't even enabled :-) | Sep 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Switching it on | Sep 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Caching activated. Settings saved. | Sep 09 19:59 |
| schestowitz | load average: 0.81, 1.31, 1.20 | Sep 09 20:00 |
| schestowitz | So in about 3 minutes it reaches average load (cache flushed every 5 minutes) | Sep 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Pages seem to be loading without an issue | Sep 09 20:01 |
| schestowitz | load average: 0.37, 1.06, 1.12 | Sep 09 20:02 |
| schestowitz | "Compatible up to: 2.7" | Sep 09 20:02 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if it'll still be maintained in the long run (the plugin) | Sep 09 20:02 |
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| tessier | mysql still seems pretty busy. | Sep 09 20:13 |
| tessier | Might want to increase the cache time significantly and see what happens. How large is the cache? | Sep 09 20:14 |
| tessier | If it isn't large enough to hit 90% of your queries it will have too much turnover to do any good. | Sep 09 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: ok, let's try it | Sep 09 20:17 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I've increased it from 5 minutes to 20 | Sep 09 20:19 |
| tessier | The readme that comes with this thing says you can put something in the footer which displays statistics on queries etc. | Sep 09 20:20 |
| tessier | If it doesn't have any other way to read out performance info you might want to consider enabling that while you get things tuned up. You could put it in a comment in the page or something so end users don't see it. | Sep 09 20:21 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I could try supercache too | Sep 09 20:22 |
| schestowitz | I never ran it on the site, but it's installed | Sep 09 20:22 |
| schestowitz | tessier: | Sep 09 20:23 |
| schestowitz | <!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 0.904 seconds --> | Sep 09 20:23 |
| schestowitz | <!-- Cached page served by WP-Cache --> | Sep 09 20:23 |
| tessier | Aren't you already using some other cache thing? | Sep 09 20:23 |
| tessier | .904 seconds is a long time to serve a page. | Sep 09 20:23 |
| schestowitz | I can see if there's a way to display more | Sep 09 20:23 |
| schestowitz | Can I do both? I thought I can, but I fearer a conflict | Sep 09 20:23 |
| schestowitz | *feared | Sep 09 20:23 |
| tessier | You should be able to do both. db query caching is separate from page caching. Should be anyway. | Sep 09 20:24 |
| tessier | No technical reason why you couldn't do both. | Sep 09 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Let's try :-) | Sep 09 20:24 |
| tessier | memcached /win 2 | Sep 09 20:24 |
| tessier | oops | Sep 09 20:24 |
| _Hicham_ | latest chromium integrates well in gnome | Sep 09 20:28 |
| schestowitz | I've enabled supercache | Sep 09 20:29 |
| everything is easy to "integrate" with free software | Sep 09 20:29 | |
| schestowitz | In moderate mode | Sep 09 20:29 |
| schestowitz | "HALF ON Super Cache Disabled, only legacy WP-Cache caching." | Sep 09 20:29 |
| schestowitz | I can go higher | Sep 09 20:29 |
| schestowitz | It's still caching inividual pages | Sep 09 20:30 |
| schestowitz | So may take a while to reach a point where load can be assessed | Sep 09 20:30 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't seem to cache yet | Sep 09 20:31 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 20:31 | |
| schestowitz | <!-- Dynamic Page Served (once) in 3.357 seconds --> | Sep 09 20:32 |
| schestowitz | It's still just using db-cache on the face of it | Sep 09 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Ah!!!!!!1 | Sep 09 20:33 |
| schestowitz | OK | Sep 09 20:33 |
| schestowitz | I have both running now | Sep 09 20:33 |
| schestowitz | But only 13 pages cached so far :-) | Sep 09 20:33 |
| schestowitz | So expire time of 3600 seconds | Sep 09 20:33 |
| tessier | How can you tell how many pages are cached? | Sep 09 20:33 |
| schestowitz | ought to save several hundreds of most visited pages | Sep 09 20:33 |
| schestowitz | tessier: there's an interface for me to cahck | Sep 09 20:34 |
| schestowitz | I can also flush it | Sep 09 20:34 |
| tessier | cool | Sep 09 20:34 |
| schestowitz | So there's DB cache and also full page cache | Sep 09 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Which means WordPress doesn't touch the DB | Sep 09 20:34 |
| tessier | Nice | Sep 09 20:34 |
| schestowitz | DB cache may be good for comments and stuff | Sep 09 20:34 |
| schestowitz | But let's see how it behaves when cache accumulates | Sep 09 20:34 |
| schestowitz | 30 Cached Pages by supercache | Sep 09 20:35 |
| schestowitz | I can make it even better | Sep 09 20:35 |
| schestowitz | With "Cache and Super Cache enabled" | Sep 09 20:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes schestowitz, I told you to use supercache like 3 months ago | Sep 09 20:36 |
| tessier | Good caching will make the site much harder to DoS | Sep 09 20:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is what I told roy. | Sep 09 20:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | but roy never listens to me | Sep 09 20:37 |
| schestowitz | I could add compression | Sep 09 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | my wordpress site survived slashdot frontpage + digg frontpage at the sametime | Sep 09 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | via supercache | Sep 09 20:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | a few vistors hits roy's, and it falls over | Sep 09 20:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: It's her factory. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/14201.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/527940.html | Sep 09 20:38 | |
| tessier | compression can help a bit also but not nearly as much as caching. It's still probably worth doing if it is easy | Sep 09 20:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | compression imo isn't recommended there | Sep 09 20:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | your httpd should be doing it instead | Sep 09 20:39 |
| tessier | Right | Sep 09 20:40 |
| tessier | That is what I assumed we were talking about | Sep 09 20:40 |
| tessier | Didn't know wp could do that | Sep 09 20:40 |
| Balrog | do not compress twice or you will have issues | Sep 09 20:41 |
| schestowitz | OK | Sep 09 20:48 |
| schestowitz | I'll leave it as it is, but there is room for improvement. Should I carry on? | Sep 09 20:49 |
| tessier | Does it give you any cache hit rate info? | Sep 09 20:50 |
| tessier | Or let you specify the size of the cache? | Sep 09 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 09 20:50 |
| schestowitz | It stores page cache for 1 hour | Sep 09 20:50 |
| schestowitz | And db cache for 20 minutes | Sep 09 20:50 |
| tessier | Is the cache hit rate increasing? | Sep 09 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Decreasing, I think | Sep 09 20:50 |
| schestowitz | In the sense that less pages get caches over times | Sep 09 20:51 |
| schestowitz | *time | Sep 09 20:51 |
| tessier | The cache hit rate should be increasing as the cache gets populated. | Sep 09 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Oh, that | Sep 09 20:51 |
| schestowitz | No, no visibility on that | Sep 09 20:51 |
| tessier | That is the most important thing to know about a cache. | Sep 09 20:51 |
| tessier | I still see mysql using a ton of cpu time in top. Hard to know if this stuff is helping or not. | Sep 09 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Page cache is maxed up after 1 hours, but I'll change it to 5 hours | Sep 09 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Changed to 15000 seconds | Sep 09 20:57 |
| tessier | <!-- Served in 1.225 secs. --> | Sep 09 20:59 |
| tessier | It should be more like .1 secs | Sep 09 20:59 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if pages that have not been caches yet slow things down | Sep 09 21:02 |
| tessier | Do you have <? loadstats(); ?> in your page somewhere? | Sep 09 21:02 |
| tessier | Yes, pages not cached yet will slow things down until they are cached. | Sep 09 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Bear in mind I flushed a lot of cache when we started doing this, so basically it's building up again | Sep 09 21:02 |
| tessier | Usually a few pages are hit very frequently so the effect of caching is pretty fast | Sep 09 21:02 |
| tessier | 80/20 rule etc | Sep 09 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Let me try <? loadstats(); ?> | Sep 09 21:02 |
| tessier | That might give us some useful info | Sep 09 21:03 |
| schestowitz | I can't seem to find a place to squeeze it into | Sep 09 21:05 |
| tessier | Just put it in a comment in the footer | Sep 09 21:05 |
| schestowitz | db-cache doesn't even echo what the interface implies it ought to | Sep 09 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Like # of queries | Sep 09 21:06 |
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| tessier | hrm | Sep 09 21:06 |
| trmanco | everybody is moving to webkit.... | Sep 09 21:18 |
| schestowitz | brb | Sep 09 21:18 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 9 21:25:00 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Sep 09 21:25 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Sep 09 21:25 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 18:24:05 2009 | Sep 09 21:25 | |
| *schestowitz () has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 21:25 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Sep 09 21:25 | |
| *BNc () has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 21:26 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Urinal protocol vulnerability: http://is.gd/35q2n | Sep 09 21:26 | |
| *Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect | Sep 09 21:30 | |
| *#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | Sep 09 21:30 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Sep 09 21:42 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from twitter | Sep 09 21:43 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Sep 09 21:43 | |
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| schestowitz | EU Cracks Down On Misleading Electronics Websites http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/09/eu-cracks-down-on-misleading-electronics-websites | Sep 09 21:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] hmmm, wtf is a DNS Trojan? | Sep 09 21:50 | |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.249.10.132) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 21:52 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Já me lembro... move on! | Sep 09 21:52 | |
| trmanco | I forgot about the DNS fiasco a year ago | Sep 09 21:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/itic_server_availability_rankings/comments/ "I'm sorry, but with Laura DiDio's record in the SCO farce (google for it or check Groklaw) I would want some additional corroboration to anything she says, even if it's "the sky is blue"." | Sep 09 21:54 |
| tessier | Nice... | Sep 09 21:55 |
| schestowitz | She's still doing it | Sep 09 21:55 |
| schestowitz | BN has articles about that as well | Sep 09 21:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] The truth about managing geeks: http://bit.ly/u2nQS So true! If only more CEO's got it. | Sep 09 22:07 | |
| schestowitz | Comments on: Apple yanks C64 emulator from App Store http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=113133 | Sep 09 22:07 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] MSFT's analysis of security: http://is.gd/35tpS | Sep 09 22:16 | |
| *trmanco recommends a read on that post | Sep 09 22:16 | |
| schestowitz | I'm going to remark on it later | Sep 09 22:18 |
| schestowitz | It's the old lies | Sep 09 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1533003/tesco-microsoft-plan-virtual-dvds | Sep 09 22:21 |
| schestowitz | Seems like Microsoft found a shill in Tesco, again | Sep 09 22:21 |
| schestowitz | "SOFTWARE ALCHEMIST Microsoft has admitted that its Vista operating systems is shipping with a bug that was first discovered in Windows machines in 1999." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1532862/ancient-flaw-hits-vista | Sep 09 22:21 |
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| _Hicham_ | extensions are working in chromium | Sep 09 22:22 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 09 22:24 |
| trmanco | long time | Sep 09 22:24 |
| *_Hicham__ (n=chatzill@41.249.9.167) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 09 22:28 | |
| _Hicham__ | trmanco : did u install adsweep on chromium ? | Sep 09 22:28 |
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| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: yep more attempts at pushing silverlight | Sep 09 22:29 |
| _Hicham__ | I am adopting silverlight | Sep 09 22:29 |
| ThistleWeb | doesn't it have parents? | Sep 09 22:29 |
| trmanco | nop | Sep 09 22:29 |
| schestowitz | Heh. Watch this headline. That's my line !! :-) http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/6836/2/ | Sep 09 22:29 |
| _Hicham__ | trmanco : how do u know that extensions are working then ? | Sep 09 22:30 |
| trmanco | before I moved to kde, I use to have daily builds | Sep 09 22:30 |
| trmanco | and extensions were already working | Sep 09 22:30 |
| _Hicham__ | what extensions did u use ? | Sep 09 22:30 |
| trmanco | the greader one and the gmail one | Sep 09 22:31 |
| trmanco | and flash (if that counts) | Sep 09 22:31 |
| _Hicham__ | I just had a system freeze with chromium | Sep 09 22:31 |
| _Hicham__ | probably it was accessing a shared memory segment | Sep 09 22:31 |
| _Hicham__ | that is what selinux is for | Sep 09 22:31 |
| _Hicham__ | too bad i am disabling selinux | Sep 09 22:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Well, Scotland won't be in South Africa next summer :(, the axe has finally dropped. Cant say it was a surprise | Sep 09 22:32 | |
| _Hicham__ | I see the problem as webkitgtk not being mature enough | Sep 09 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Google's Chromium sandbox http://lwn.net/Articles/347547/ | Sep 09 22:33 |
| _Hicham__ | probably chromium's extensions are gonna be more buggy than firefox' ones | Sep 09 22:34 |
| _Hicham__ | it is very clear | Sep 09 22:34 |
| _Hicham__ | at least with firefox i ve never had a system freeze | Sep 09 22:35 |
| schestowitz | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/demonstration_o.html "The BBC has a video demonstration of a 16-ounce bottle of liquid blowing a hole in the side of a plane." | Sep 09 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Madness. | Sep 09 22:35 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Sep 09 22:36 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/images/stories/htc_tattoo2.jpg [img] | Sep 09 22:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft Foes Aim to Snatch Patent Advantage in Linux Tussle: http://is.gd/35v0s | Sep 09 22:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @pvilela: Venham os outros @ANSOL: #MEP o 1º partido a rsp http://is.gd/35pf8 às perguntas da ANSOL aos candidatos http://bit.ly/11XrUt | Sep 09 22:39 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @trmanco don't get excited. OIN only legitimises software patents. | Sep 09 22:39 | |
| tessier | Is that 16oz of liquid nitroglycerin? | Sep 09 22:42 |
| tessier | Liquid explosives is nothing new. | Sep 09 22:42 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Creating a Chrome Extension < http://www.brighthub.com/hubfolio/matthew-casperson/articles/48118.aspx > But help Firefox, don't be a vassal to Google. | Sep 09 22:43 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I sometimes wonder why all shops here keep certain chemicals behind the counter | Sep 09 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Developing with real-time Java, Part 1: Exploit real-time Java's unique features http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/j-devrtj1/index.html?ca=dgr-lnxw02java-RT-P1&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=grlnxw | Sep 09 22:45 |
| schestowitz | tessier: there are now 700 pages cached and DB-cache on top | Sep 09 22:45 |
| schestowitz | load average: 0.61, 1.75, 1.58 | Sep 09 22:45 |
| *_Hicham__ is now known as _Hicham_ | Sep 09 22:52 | |
| schestowitz | Another defeatist... Ha! http://www.daniweb.com/news/story221561.html# | Sep 09 22:54 |
| schestowitz | He was never a fan anyway | Sep 09 22:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Republican in "heterosexual" sex scandal http://notnews.today.com/?p=637 | Sep 09 22:56 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft helps Best Buy employees troll Mac users, too: http://is.gd/35wow || What next? FreeBSD or Amiga? | Sep 09 22:57 | |
| schestowitz | How to build a Twitter extension for Chrome < http://arstechnica.com/open-source/guides/2009/09/how-to-build-a-twitter-extension-for-chrome.ars > | Sep 09 22:57 |
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| _Hicham_ | our twitter should build that extension | Sep 09 22:58 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: it worked? | Sep 09 22:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme STATS: Average Twitter User Is a Teenage Girl http://bit.ly/hplFO | Sep 09 23:00 | |
| schestowitz | Dell renews Ubuntu Linux desktop line up http://blogs.computerworld.com/14701/dell_renews_ubuntu_linux_desktop_line_up | Sep 09 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: what did? | Sep 09 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | holy crap | Sep 09 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Twitter for oldies... "you make me feel so young: | Sep 09 23:02 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: the db-cache plugin | Sep 09 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | 2.6.31-rc9 /w bfs210-test4 | Sep 09 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | is | Sep 09 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | so | Sep 09 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | very | Sep 09 23:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | fast | Sep 09 23:02 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: load average: 0.68, 0.75, 1.10 | Sep 09 23:04 |
| zlg | why do you think there is a spike on every decade ? and on your 21 year ? | Sep 09 23:04 |
| schestowitz | I'm running two cache layers in a way now | Sep 09 23:04 |
| schestowitz | I can improve it further | Sep 09 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: it IS! | Sep 09 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: boots like a thunder | Sep 09 23:05 |
| schestowitz | And the desktop just feels good | Sep 09 23:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | screw that dude | Sep 09 23:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | firefox boots like thunder | Sep 09 23:05 |
| schestowitz | I'm on alpha8 | Sep 09 23:05 |
| schestowitz | rc8 i mean | Sep 09 23:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have like 150 tabs across 15 windows | Sep 09 23:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | and FFFFFFFFFFFFF its done | Sep 09 23:05 |
| schestowitz | That's a lot of cartoons !! | Sep 09 23:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | hah funny | Sep 09 23:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, its lots and lots of docs | Sep 09 23:08 |
| schestowitz | New FF released | Sep 09 23:09 |
| schestowitz | 3.5.3 | Sep 09 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I give kde too much credit from improvement that comes from linux with ext4 | Sep 09 23:09 |
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| Diablo-D3 | ext4 is really damned fast on stupidly written apps | Sep 09 23:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing | Sep 09 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Stay safe when using a Linux PC http://www.computeractive.co.uk/computeractive/features/2249043/stay-secure-linux-pc-4548852 | Sep 09 23:11 |
| MinceR | i wouldn't call data loss an "improvement" | Sep 09 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Get a linux AV | Sep 09 23:11 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it's fixed | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | That was before final | Sep 09 23:12 |
| MinceR | well, there's an extra hack to make things a little less broken, afaik | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | ext4 has been there in stable since .30, no? | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Mac OS crap has the same type of thing | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Massive data loss bug | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | In Leopard IIRC | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Circa 2007 | Sep 09 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Opera 10 tops 10 million downloads http://www.techradar.com/news/internet/opera-10-tops-10-million-downloads-633169 | Sep 09 23:13 |
| schestowitz | impressive | Sep 09 23:13 |
| schestowitz | 20 most bizarre Craigslist adverts of all time < http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6157363/20-most-bizarre-Craigslist-adverts-of-all-time.html > | Sep 09 23:14 |
| MinceR | well, you don't see me using macos, do you? :> | Sep 09 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | UNIX network performance analysis < http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-networkperfanalysis/?ca=dgr-lnxw100UNIX-Networkdth-A&S_TACT=105AGX59&S_CMP=grlnxw100 > | Sep 09 23:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it has its strength | Sep 09 23:18 |
| schestowitz | I just don't think it's any better than my current desktop | Sep 09 23:19 |
| MinceR | what does? | Sep 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | And I did have a chance to test drive os x | Sep 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: you should also try kde 4.4 or 4.3 | Sep 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | It's ready for use.. even in alphas | Sep 09 23:19 |
| MinceR | currently i'm trying to get a new keyboard :) | Sep 09 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Konversation is totally fine in alpha/beta | Sep 09 23:20 |
| MinceR | it's a pain to try to find a good keyboard with an inverted L-shaped enter key | Sep 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I have 3 keyboards here | Sep 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | None that I'm happy with | Sep 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | I keep swapping | Sep 09 23:20 |
| MinceR | shops and manufacturers tend to hold that detail secret | Sep 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Each has its pros and cons | Sep 09 23:20 |
| schestowitz | The one whose contact I like best has no multimedia keys | Sep 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | And it's white, unlike my boxes and monitors (black) | Sep 09 23:21 |
| MinceR | also, i want mine to be durable | Sep 09 23:21 |
| schestowitz | It's toilet white, like Macs | Sep 09 23:21 |
| MinceR | i'm looking at the Logitech G11 | Sep 09 23:21 |
| MinceR | but most shops only post the stock image | Sep 09 23:22 |
| MinceR | even Logitech only shows 1 layout | Sep 09 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Free Software Foundation files objection to Google Book Search settlement < http://www.fsf.org/news/2009-09-google-book-settlement-objection > | Sep 09 23:22 |
| MinceR | yet i know they offer multiple layouts | Sep 09 23:22 |
| schestowitz | If you optimise, you'll always be unhappy | Sep 09 23:22 |
| MinceR | Saitek didn't even offer a large photo of their Cyborg keyboard | Sep 09 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Saitek.. | Sep 09 23:22 |
| MinceR | the only keyboard manufacturer i've seen so far who were willing to actually show me their layouts was UniComp | Sep 09 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Heard of them, never bought | Sep 09 23:23 |
| MinceR | but their specialty is buckling spring and i've read that those are hard to press by default | Sep 09 23:23 |
| trmanco | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/microsoft_windows_security_bug/comments/#c_577560 | Sep 09 23:23 |
| trmanco | lol | Sep 09 23:23 |
| MinceR | which is exactly what i'm trying to avoid | Sep 09 23:23 |
| MinceR | and i've never had the opportunity to try them | Sep 09 23:23 |
| cubezzz | I like keytronic, but no one sells it around here | Sep 09 23:23 |
| MinceR | also, backlighting would be nice | Sep 09 23:24 |
| MinceR | my current usb/led light solution is suboptimal | Sep 09 23:25 |
| MinceR | funny how the ThinkLight works great but this doesn't | Sep 09 23:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Linux 2.6.27.33: http://is.gd/35ysk | Sep 09 23:26 | |
| schestowitz | Replacing X11 http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2009/09/replacing-x11.html | Sep 09 23:28 |
| MinceR | what's even harder to find is a cleaning cloth that can be put between the keyboard and the screen of a laptop, made for 17" laptops | Sep 09 23:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: lights? Why? | Sep 09 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Don't you have a brightly-lit comp. env.? | Sep 09 23:28 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: in my home setup the keyboard is pretty much shadowed from everything | Sep 09 23:28 |
| schestowitz | You ruins your eyesight if not | Sep 09 23:28 |
| MinceR | no, i only light the wall behind the screens | Sep 09 23:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not optimal, either | Sep 09 23:29 |
| MinceR | glare isn't optimal either | Sep 09 23:29 |
| MinceR | and luring arthropods in from the night through the window isn't optimal either :> | Sep 09 23:29 |
| schestowitz | I was told that overhead light is still needed | Sep 09 23:29 |
| schestowitz | After all those years with 12 fluorescents..... | Sep 09 23:29 |
| MinceR | actually placing the LED really far from the keyboard seems to work | Sep 09 23:30 |
| *schestowitz lights another lamp | Sep 09 23:30 | |
| MinceR | i should have thought of this earlier | Sep 09 23:30 |
| MinceR | maybe i'll just get a Logitech Internet 350 then :) | Sep 09 23:30 |
| tessier | MinceR: Happy Hacking Keyboard is nice and has no multimedia keys | Sep 09 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Our eyes work the most while reading | Sep 09 23:30 |
| MinceR | i want multimedia keys | Sep 09 23:30 |
| tessier | Why? | Sep 09 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Take care of your sight conditions | Sep 09 23:31 |
| MinceR | tessier: one-button pause for when someone comes in | Sep 09 23:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: SUPER+C | Sep 09 23:31 |
| MinceR | i said one-button :> | Sep 09 23:31 |
| schestowitz | I left mm keys behind | Sep 09 23:31 |
| MinceR | i already have Super+Down | Sep 09 23:31 |
| schestowitz | They require the finger to leave key positions | Sep 09 23:31 |
| MinceR | i'm no touch typist | Sep 09 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Unlike with alt+ctrl+super | Sep 09 23:31 |
| MinceR | the extra buttons i want are volume+, volume-, play/pause and one extra button i'm planning to bind later | Sep 09 23:32 |
| MinceR | i don't want lots of extra buttons because i'm not going to have them when i take the laptop elsewhere :> | Sep 09 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Amarok 2.X proxy settings http://linuxsysconfig.com/2009/09/amarok-2-x-proxy-settings/ | Sep 09 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Amarok2 is NICE | Sep 09 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Stable too | Sep 09 23:34 |
| schestowitz | SOme people complained about it in vain | Sep 09 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Amarok is also far later in v2 | Sep 09 23:34 |
| schestowitz | My RAM usage with very filled desktop is only 37%. It would be around 70% in kde3 (same h/w) | Sep 09 23:35 |
| schestowitz | Firefox 3.5.3 < http://www.ghacks.net/2009/09/09/firefox-3-5-3/ > | Sep 09 23:36 |
| schestowitz | http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-doesnt-work-just-recompile-34022 "So instead of telling people to recompile a program, which can break on the next update, tell them to submit a bug report and talk directly to the developers. That will guarantee a permanent fix and we will end up with a more professional image that will attract more people to be assimilated." | Sep 09 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, _goblin | Sep 09 23:37 |
| schestowitz | I was just about to post some of the wonderful news | Sep 09 23:38 |
| _goblin | Hi! | Sep 09 23:38 |
| _goblin | just got in from work.... | Sep 09 23:38 |
| _goblin | there's got to be more to life than work...surely.... | Sep 09 23:39 |
| _goblin | very bad day. :( | Sep 09 23:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @trmanco I prefer the FFII approach. Abolish software patents once and for all. | Sep 09 23:39 | |
| schestowitz | _goblin: Microsoft is the same. | Sep 09 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Bad days... | Sep 09 23:39 |
| schestowitz | http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg | Sep 09 23:39 |
| schestowitz | ^^^ Microsoft tried to control Linux in the channel | Sep 09 23:39 |
| _goblin | might cheer me up.... | Sep 09 23:39 |
| _goblin | ? | Sep 09 23:40 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 09 23:42 | |
| schestowitz | _goblin: maybe | Sep 09 23:46 |
| _Hicham_ | anyone here with some experience in working with gtkbuilder ? | Sep 09 23:46 |
| _goblin | Roy: I'm hopefully up in Manchester in a few weeks time... | Sep 09 23:47 |
| _goblin | be bringing the family for a short break to see relatives..... | Sep 09 23:47 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: if things are down, remember you could be worse. You could be cyber-prostituting for laptops like Costaboy | Sep 09 23:49 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: cool, I'd meet you if you're around here | Sep 09 23:49 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: not glade? | Sep 09 23:49 |
| schestowitz | USe Trolltech's (Nokia) tools for GUI | Sep 09 23:50 |
| schestowitz | It's LGPL now | Sep 09 23:50 |
| schestowitz | And it looks far better | Sep 09 23:50 |
| _goblin | :) Yeah I hope so..... You may be in for a little surprise (not in a bad way) when you find out what I actually do for a living..... | Sep 09 23:52 |
| _Hicham_ | _goblin : what do u do for a living? work as a hitman ? | Sep 09 23:52 |
| _goblin | lol no... | Sep 09 23:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Selling Point Emphasised as Microsoft Pulls the Plug on Another Windows http://ping.fm/4G0NK | Sep 09 23:53 | |
| _goblin | Im certainly not a criminal. | Sep 09 23:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Chrome for GNU/Linux - Official Launch Seemingly Near http://ping.fm/VZm7z | Sep 09 23:54 | |
| _goblin | its not really mysterious......suffice to say that although I helped with a family run software firm (for free) my real job is probably about as far removed from FOSS/Microsoft as you can get. | Sep 09 23:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ViewSonic VNB101 Boots Linux http://ping.fm/vzI9p | Sep 09 23:55 | |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 09 23:55 | |
| schestowitz | _goblin: cowboys ftw | Sep 09 23:56 |
| schestowitz | Do you know the Wolvix guy btw? | Sep 09 23:56 |
| _goblin | no....don't think so. | Sep 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | It always fascinates me to read his bio | Sep 09 23:57 |
| schestowitz | Read up on it | Sep 09 23:57 |
| _goblin | will do.... | Sep 09 23:57 |
| _goblin | is it on the site? | Sep 09 23:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz i'm using chromium 4 on ubuntu a bit, it's pretty nice | Sep 09 23:58 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle Delivers for GNU/Linux Before Any Other Platform http://ping.fm/B63YP | Sep 09 23:59 | |
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