| trmanco | yes in money | Sep 30 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| trmanco | how can a bank have so much money? | Sep 30 00:13 |
| cubezzz | million, billion, trillion, quadrillion, quintillion... sextillion | Sep 30 00:16 |
| cubezzz | wait a sec | Sep 30 00:16 |
| cubezzz | that can't be right :) | Sep 30 00:17 |
| cubezzz | 10^21 | Sep 30 00:17 |
| cubezzz | all the money ever minted wouldn't be close to 1 sextillion | Sep 30 00:18 |
| trmanco | it's absurd | Sep 30 00:18 |
| cubezzz | unless there's some sort of hyper-inflation | Sep 30 00:21 |
| trmanco | no bank has that kind of money | Sep 30 00:22 |
| cubezzz | there was a $100 trillion Zimbabwean dollar note | Sep 30 00:22 |
| cubezzz | assuming U.S. dollars there's maybe a few trillion | Sep 30 00:22 |
| trmanco | but not a billion of a trillion | Sep 30 00:23 |
| cubezzz | no :) | Sep 30 00:24 |
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| trmanco | gn | Sep 30 00:30 |
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| schestowitz | gn | Sep 30 01:24 |
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| cubezzz | zaurus is great, but 32 megs is not a lot | Sep 30 01:50 |
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| oiaohm | http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/9/27/173 << Linus is always fun. | Sep 30 01:56 |
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| cubezzz | it would be cool if we could colour code the tabs in konsole | Sep 30 02:17 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @santhoshtr: Outsourcing of computer education in schools fails #foss #karnataka #kerala http://bit.ly/XbFsX | Sep 30 05:59 | |
| cubezzz | quiet tonight | Sep 30 05:59 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] More complete misunderstanding (or more cynically #doublespeak) of #patent s by #EU #politicians http://ur1.ca/co2r http://ur1.ca/co2s | Sep 30 06:58 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @fish_pond: [New Post]: A Vicious Manifesto http://bit.ly/guDiu #thefishpond | Sep 30 07:45 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @fish_pond: [New Post]: A Vicious Manifesto http://bit.ly/guDiu #thefishpond #dalit #kerala | Sep 30 07:46 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Might Support Intel’s #Moblin to Make #GNU #Linux More Microsoft Dependent http://ping.fm/qZjSk | Sep 30 08:05 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Freedom and the Fallacy of Market Share http://ping.fm/yt9TO | Sep 30 09:10 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Jaspersoft CEO: US #Law and Policies Reinforce Proprietary, “Closed Source” Rights and Policies http://ping.fm/fh1y6 | Sep 30 09:21 | |
| cubezzz | that was weird | Sep 30 09:23 |
| cubezzz | I was listening to this piece of classical music... and I'm thinking, that's familiar | Sep 30 09:23 |
| cubezzz | then it hits me | Sep 30 09:24 |
| cubezzz | it's the waltz that uhura plays on Squire of Gothos :) | Sep 30 09:24 |
| cubezzz | Johann Strauss's "Rosen aus dem Süden" | Sep 30 09:29 |
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| cubezzz | Strauss II I should say | Sep 30 09:31 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] If Microsoft could "do" security, there'd be no holes to exploit, nor would an industry have sprung up to fill them http://tinyurl.com/y ... | Sep 30 09:37 | |
| schestowitz | Great post from Carla: http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/09/mark-shuttlewor-1.html | Sep 30 09:37 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Further action in postal dispute - Congrats, your plans to disrupt millions of lives are on target http://tinyurl.com/ybfsgl4 | Sep 30 09:51 | |
| schestowitz | My ongoing Kafka-esque nightmare of dealing with Palm and their App Catalog submission process. < http://jwz.livejournal.com/1096401.html > | Sep 30 09:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Groklaw's very long defense of Richard Stallman (and expose of Miguel de Icaza): http://ping.fm/08CqP | Sep 30 09:53 | |
| schestowitz | Ewww... http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-09-30-012-35-OS-CY-EV-0001 | Sep 30 09:55 |
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| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/4466354232 "RT @newsbrooke In the EU, the real opposition to openness isn't MEPs but Council of Europe says EU Ombudsman #icic09 >> there's a surprise" | Sep 30 10:06 |
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| schestowitz | G20 bra girl charged for posing as a police officer < http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23749027-bra-girl-charged-for-posing-as-a-pc.do > | Sep 30 10:07 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody US dollar set to be eclipsed, World Bank president predicts - http://bit.ly/8qtU9 saying the unsayable #economics | Sep 30 10:20 | |
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| schestowitz | Water tensions in central Asia < http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/3267 > | Sep 30 10:27 |
| schestowitz | “We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to remove new restrictions on photography in public places.” http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/09/thanks-for-keeping-us-in-picture.html | Sep 30 10:28 |
| schestowitz | One thousand billion worlds < http://www.sergebrunier.com/gallerie/pleinciel/index-eng.html > [Flash] | Sep 30 10:31 |
| schestowitz | Alcatel Boosts Fiber Speed to 100 Petabits in Lab http://gigaom.com/2009/09/28/alcatel-lucent-boosts-fiber-speeds-by-10x-in-lab/ | Sep 30 10:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Gordon Brown promises "magical happyland of unicorns and faeries" to Labour conference http://notnews.today.com/?p=674 | Sep 30 10:34 | |
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| schestowitz | Unauthentication < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/unauthenticatio.html > | Sep 30 10:35 |
| schestowitz | Watch the picture of Brown...... | Sep 30 10:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard this reminds me that their conference will shut down the health club I go to next week, as usual. They love secrecy. | Sep 30 10:38 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Superheavy Element 114 Finally Re-created < http://ping.fm/r2xC0 > 2 atoms in one week. How many atoms used to 'manufacture' it? | Sep 30 10:43 | |
| schestowitz | A world's supernation to be? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/asia/29beijing.html?_r=1&hp | Sep 30 10:46 |
| schestowitz | Blech. http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom/anthony-barnett/2009/09/29/blair-to-be-our-president | Sep 30 10:50 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090929/0456146358.shtml "Update: Well, that was fast. Given public backlash, the gov't has already decided to back down and rewrite the laws to allow mobile phone navigation systems." | Sep 30 10:52 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: you missed something important moblin project is not intel any more. Moblin project owns to the Linux foundation and usable by all distributions. | Sep 30 10:59 |
| oiaohm | So effectively Silverlight 3.0 release by MS is a direct cross of turf with Novell. | Sep 30 11:00 |
| schestowitz | Here's a random thought: | Sep 30 11:01 |
| schestowitz | Education does not really cost anything anymore. | Sep 30 11:01 |
| schestowitz | It costs only a connection fee | Sep 30 11:01 |
| schestowitz | A _diploma_ however is expensive | Sep 30 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Only those affluent are allowed to /claim/ wisdom | Sep 30 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Cost of Education is the documentation of proff that you have done stuff. | Sep 30 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Many successful people never went to college because they were buy with self-teaching | Sep 30 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Like here Education records have to be kept for 70 years. | Sep 30 11:02 |
| schestowitz | It would be interesting to make a list of people who achieved stuff and their qualifications | Sep 30 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Yes 70 years. | Sep 30 11:03 |
| oiaohm | That is not cheep. | Sep 30 11:03 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: about Silver Lie, do you think it's a case of Microsoft polluting Linux via Novell? | Sep 30 11:03 |
| schestowitz | And if so, what role does Intel play | Sep 30 11:03 |
| schestowitz | And how does Intel getting source code relate to the separate Moon Lie project? | Sep 30 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Intel is just messing with MS. | Sep 30 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Intel does not want anything with patent questions. | Sep 30 11:04 |
| oiaohm | So if MS provides it directly MS loses the Means to patent attack. | Sep 30 11:04 |
| schestowitz | What does Intel think of sw pats? | Sep 30 11:04 |
| schestowitz | zoobab: ? | Sep 30 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Does Intel have software patents? | Sep 30 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Intel does not want anything disrupting there sales of hardware. | Sep 30 11:05 |
| schestowitz | Or just h/w+s/w (Combined) patents? | Sep 30 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Software patent could block there sales. | Sep 30 11:05 |
| oiaohm | So effect intels bottom line. | Sep 30 11:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&q=intel+software+patents\&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Sep 30 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Ie injections. | Sep 30 11:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.jamesshuggins.com/h/tek1/software_patent_intel.htm | Sep 30 11:06 |
| oiaohm | Remember intel does not produce software. | Sep 30 11:06 |
| oiaohm | So software patents are no advantage to intel. | Sep 30 11:06 |
| oiaohm | Time has moved a lot for intel since 1994 | Sep 30 11:07 |
| oiaohm | 1993-1994 Intel had a profitable complier business. | Sep 30 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Time changes schestowitz. | Sep 30 11:08 |
| schestowitz | I saw the year | Sep 30 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Which compiler/s did they work on? | Sep 30 11:09 |
| schestowitz | They now help gcc a bit | Sep 30 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Optimising to their h/w | Sep 30 11:09 |
| oiaohm | icc is intels | Sep 30 11:09 |
| oiaohm | Intel is slowly fusing the tech from there complier into gcc. | Sep 30 11:10 |
| oiaohm | http://software.intel.com/en-us/intel-compilers/ | Sep 30 11:11 |
| oiaohm | Yes intell still sells it. | Sep 30 11:11 |
| oiaohm | But its not a major profit arm. | Sep 30 11:11 |
| oiaohm | Basically if MS provides silverlight and .net for Linux in a patent safe way Intel would not get in way. | Sep 30 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Now the stuff Novell has Intel is not going to touch with a 10 foot pole intel is not stupid they don't want the head aches. | Sep 30 11:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Garmin-G60-on-ATT-and-Motorola-Cliq-on-TMobile/?kc=rss | Sep 30 11:14 |
| schestowitz | Not x86 | Sep 30 11:15 |
| schestowitz | Intel is really having a hard time looking ahead | Sep 30 11:15 |
| schestowitz | Mobile devices will reject Atom | Sep 30 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Sep 30 11:15 |
| schestowitz | It's a slimmed down dinosaur, not a fox | Sep 30 11:16 |
| oiaohm | If intel loses Atom they still have there arm chip production. | Sep 30 11:16 |
| schestowitz | I know | Sep 30 11:16 |
| schestowitz | That would be a bigger issue to Windows ecosystem | Sep 30 11:16 |
| schestowitz | the .EXE ecosystem | Sep 30 11:16 |
| oiaohm | And the production plants they give to other arm makers. | Sep 30 11:16 |
| schestowitz | But Intel has chip design business as well | Sep 30 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Yes lot of custom arm chips come out Intel plants. | Sep 30 11:17 |
| schestowitz | My brother in law works on that | Sep 30 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Intel chip design is not just x86. | Sep 30 11:17 |
| schestowitz | Intel doesn't want to offshore design | Sep 30 11:17 |
| schestowitz | Then they just become some fab company in China and Singapore | Sep 30 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Ok lot at this stage goes into x86. | Sep 30 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Intel can restruct. | Sep 30 11:17 |
| schestowitz | IBM has patents there too | Sep 30 11:18 |
| oiaohm | No matter what happens in the OS market. | Sep 30 11:18 |
| schestowitz | And SUN | Sep 30 11:18 |
| schestowitz | What Oracle will do with SPARC, who knows? | Sep 30 11:18 |
| schestowitz | They deny selling to HP now | Sep 30 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Note they are all part of Linux foundation. | Sep 30 11:18 |
| schestowitz | Wanting to fasten Oracle DBs with hardware refinements instead | Sep 30 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Oracle required hardware arm. | Sep 30 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Software without hardware is being a dieing breed. | Sep 30 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Sparc chips have always been great for particular database loads. | Sep 30 11:19 |
| oiaohm | I wonder if Orcale will do a Sparc daughter board. | Sep 30 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Ie database accelerator to stick in x86 machines. | Sep 30 11:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.techcast.com/events/linuxcon/roundtable/ | Sep 30 11:22 |
| schestowitz | Poland detained a Linux guy for visa problems | Sep 30 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Idiots. | Sep 30 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Skip to minute 3 | Sep 30 11:23 |
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| oiaohm | arm chip rise is causing major problems biggest x86 company at risk is amd. | Sep 30 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Amd does not own there production plants. | Sep 30 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Windows hardware is still a pain in but when it turns up. | Sep 30 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Ie windows only hardware. | Sep 30 11:28 |
| oiaohm | Currently downloading the roundtable. | Sep 30 11:28 |
| schestowitz | Download? | Sep 30 11:32 |
| schestowitz | Oh wait. | Sep 30 11:32 |
| schestowitz | Do we have ogg somewhere? | Sep 30 11:33 |
| schestowitz | I can produce one | Sep 30 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Its a flv file. | Sep 30 11:33 |
| oiaohm | My system kind grabs them. | Sep 30 11:33 |
| schestowitz | Linux has a belly | Sep 30 11:34 |
| schestowitz | *Linus | Sep 30 11:34 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Linus too ("bloated") | Sep 30 11:34 |
| schestowitz | *Linux | Sep 30 11:34 |
| schestowitz | Damn. I can't type it right | Sep 30 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Yep he is starting to look like the penguin. | Sep 30 11:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sb7Jyn1Bi4 | Sep 30 11:36 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I'm not sure; he was never really slim | Sep 30 11:37 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't matter. | Sep 30 11:37 |
| schestowitz | I like how he's honest about disliking conferences | Sep 30 11:37 |
| schestowitz | And he says what he dislikes about them... and I agree on that in general | Sep 30 11:37 |
| schestowitz | I hate conferences. They are also poor use of time, not pointless, boring and outdates | Sep 30 11:38 |
| schestowitz | In the past people needed conferences | Sep 30 11:38 |
| schestowitz | It's the only way they could present material | Sep 30 11:38 |
| schestowitz | Journals were the only way for them to communicate work across the continents | Sep 30 11:38 |
| schestowitz | But that's all quite old | Sep 30 11:38 |
| schestowitz | We're better connected even without burning gas (carbon) and eating 'sample foods' | Sep 30 11:39 |
| schestowitz | When I went to a IEEE conference in Arlington I just went with a friend to DC instead | Sep 30 11:39 |
| schestowitz | Linus still like the small conference in Australia and goes there every year | Sep 30 11:40 |
| schestowitz | He seems to like Australia a lot | Sep 30 11:40 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: head of samba. | Sep 30 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Linus and the head of samba are always found close when he is in Australia. | Sep 30 11:41 |
| schestowitz | http://www.samba.org/~tridge/ ? | Sep 30 11:45 |
| schestowitz | His PhD thesis is just 103 pages long. http://www.samba.org/~tridge/phd_thesis.pdf | Sep 30 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Yep tridge | Sep 30 11:48 |
| oiaohm | Tridge was with Linus when he got bit by penguin as well. | Sep 30 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Understanding the Linux File System http://linux.bihlman.com/2009/09/29/understanding-the-linux-file-system/ | Sep 30 11:50 |
| schestowitz | I never saw that penguin incident | Sep 30 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Wait. | Sep 30 11:51 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's on YouTUbe if someone captured it | Sep 30 11:51 |
| schestowitz | I can't quite find anything on Google | Sep 30 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Tridge took Linux to an Australian zoo for ideas for a mascot. | Sep 30 11:53 |
| schestowitz | "Linus: I've been to Australia several times, these days mostly for Linux.Conf.Au. But my first trip - and the one when I was bitten by a ferocious Fairy Penguin: you really should keep those things locked up! - was in 93 or so, talking about Linux for the Australian Unix Users Group.[13]" | Sep 30 11:53 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tux | Sep 30 11:53 |
| oiaohm | Before Linus was famous. | Sep 30 11:53 |
| schestowitz | From http://apcmag.com/linus_torvalds_talks_future_of_linux_page_3.htm | Sep 30 11:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Aren't newspapers supposed to "report the news" not support one party over another? http://tinyurl.com/ychldjd | Sep 30 11:55 | |
| Diablo-D3 | "because as far as I'm concerned, the whole and only point of a distribution is to make it easy to install (so that I can then get to the part I care about, namely the kernel), so Debian or one of the "compile everything by hand" ones simply weren't interesting to me." | Sep 30 11:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | BWHAHAHA | Sep 30 11:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow | Sep 30 11:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | I've lost all respect for linus | Sep 30 11:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | what a tard | Sep 30 11:56 |
| schestowitz | They don't stop...... http://www.serverwatch.com/article.php/3841406/Linux-Is-Bloated-Does-Anyone-Care | Sep 30 11:57 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: Linus just stated exactly what distributions should be about. | Sep 30 11:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: he just described debian as some offshoot of gentoo | Sep 30 11:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | debian has been the easiest installable distro for a decade | Sep 30 11:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | and if debian is too hard for him, theres ubuntu | Sep 30 11:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | fucking moron | Sep 30 11:59 |
| oiaohm | No he did not. | Sep 30 12:00 |
| oiaohm | At the time that quote is from Diablo-D3 debian was still one of the most painful packaged versions to install. | Sep 30 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Compared to other distributions around. | Sep 30 12:01 |
| schestowitz | http://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/09/install-amarok-22-rc1-in-ubuntu-jaunty.html | Sep 30 12:01 |
| schestowitz | The Wikipedia feature in Amarok seems to have changed recently | Sep 30 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the API | Sep 30 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Some intros to artists I could get don't show up anymore, not for the same tracks anyway | Sep 30 12:01 |
| schestowitz | Amazon API for album covers worked for me some years ago, but it seems to be blocked now too | Sep 30 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: Linus talked about Debian in his latest interview | Sep 30 12:02 |
| schestowitz | He never tried Debian IIRC | Sep 30 12:02 |
| schestowitz | He uses Fedora ATM on all his machines | Sep 30 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Wife too | Sep 30 12:02 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: time of the quote ws 2007 | Sep 30 12:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: I just quoted it | Sep 30 12:03 |
| schestowitz | It was fine back at the time | Sep 30 12:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | debian has never been hard to install | Sep 30 12:03 |
| schestowitz | I used apt-get a lot | Sep 30 12:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | and since hes never used it, how the fuck does he know | Sep 30 12:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | I hope debian crucifies him | Sep 30 12:03 |
| schestowitz | That's my point | Sep 30 12:03 |
| schestowitz | Not that | Sep 30 12:03 |
| schestowitz | That he might not know | Sep 30 12:03 |
| schestowitz | He has an image of debian as hard | Sep 30 12:04 |
| schestowitz | But that's Gentoo | Sep 30 12:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, he fucking described gentoo | Sep 30 12:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | OH LOOK, COMPILE SHIT, THATS SOOOOOOO DEBIAN ISNT IT | Sep 30 12:04 |
| schestowitz | He doesn't need repos | Sep 30 12:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | fucking asshole | Sep 30 12:04 |
| schestowitz | He uses Alpine, which is no longer supported by Washington U for a few years, AFAIK | Sep 30 12:04 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: watch your language | Sep 30 12:04 |
| oiaohm | 2007 was pre debians graphical installer schestowitz | Sep 30 12:05 |
| schestowitz | But he talks about package management | Sep 30 12:05 |
| schestowitz | I installed Ubuntu 4.10 without a GUI either | Sep 30 12:05 |
| schestowitz | It's not hard | Sep 30 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Debian even still how has some package manager issues as well. | Sep 30 12:06 |
| schestowitz | And Ubuntu already had a graphical package manager | Sep 30 12:06 |
| schestowitz | Like a front end to Debian's apt | Sep 30 12:06 |
| oiaohm | aptitude works. | Sep 30 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Most of the other frontends for apt can screw up badly. | Sep 30 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Like syngergy on me to fix 3 missing packages by reinstalling 2000 packages. | Sep 30 12:07 |
| oiaohm | It was a part install break. | Sep 30 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Debian package management is not as good as it should be at times. | Sep 30 12:08 |
| schestowitz | My only issue at the time is that openssh was not installed by default | Sep 30 12:09 |
| schestowitz | But Debiubuntu (at that stage Ubuntu was just a Debian with a new logo) was OK with the installer and package manegement | Sep 30 12:09 |
| schestowitz | All the hardware detected perfectly out of the box | Sep 30 12:10 |
| schestowitz | Dell model, can't recall the line | Sep 30 12:10 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: have you moved to kde4 full time yet? | Sep 30 12:10 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Sep 30 12:11 |
| schestowitz | We need more people to move others to it | Sep 30 12:11 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.3 has pased my tollerence test. | Sep 30 12:11 |
| oiaohm | And I am picky. | Sep 30 12:11 |
| schestowitz | So that developers concentrate on improving it and get backtraces | Sep 30 12:11 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.4 I am looking forward to. | Sep 30 12:11 |
| schestowitz | The microblog thing hogs x after about a day | Sep 30 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Some bug... | Sep 30 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Just need to be closed and reopened to fix, no big deal | Sep 30 12:12 |
| schestowitz | And you said it's brand new | Sep 30 12:12 |
| oiaohm | timetrace tool that is coming is going to be useful. | Sep 30 12:12 |
| schestowitz | I.e. didn't exist in 4.2.x | Sep 30 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Currently you cannot see enough to locate exactly where the hogging is. | Sep 30 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Ok at the 45 min mark in the roundtable video is good. | Sep 30 12:13 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@86.108.48.166.go.com.jo) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 12:20 | |
| schestowitz | hoa | Sep 30 12:26 |
| schestowitz | Xerox bought ACS | Sep 30 12:26 |
| schestowitz | $6bl | Sep 30 12:26 |
| oiaohm | That might not be good. | Sep 30 12:27 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Sep 30 12:31 |
| schestowitz | Novell is there | Sep 30 12:31 |
| schestowitz | " | Sep 30 12:31 |
| schestowitz | The deal comes just five months after ACS and Novell Inc.'s Provo office formed a strategic alliance in which ACS took over computer operations. Nearly 100 Novell employees went to work for ACS. | Sep 30 12:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_13437828 | Sep 30 12:31 |
| schestowitz | "In June this year Affiliated Computer Services said it would take over the running of Novell's data center operations in Provo, Utah as part of a global services deal which will see the outsourcer take Novell's data center products to market. Under the IT outsourcing arrangement, around 150 Novell data center staff will move to ACS.." | Sep 30 12:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=2704BEFD42DC40D1A659C9E8F93FCF6D | Sep 30 12:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/burton-reduces-server-costs-over,977437.shtml | Sep 30 12:33 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: where is your bot? | Sep 30 12:33 |
| trmanco | oops | Sep 30 12:33 |
| trmanco | I knew I forgot something | Sep 30 12:33 |
| *phIRCe (n=b0t@bl8-225-212.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 12:33 | |
| schestowitz | Where do you tun it from? | Sep 30 12:33 |
| schestowitz | Desktop or server? | Sep 30 12:34 |
| trmanco | desktop | Sep 30 12:34 |
| trmanco | I have no server that supports sockets | Sep 30 12:34 |
| trmanco | :| | Sep 30 12:34 |
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| *masticator (n=blah@24.187.189.135) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 12:36 | |
| oiaohm | Ok someone is at longlast doing a apparmor update to use correct secuirty framework interfaces. | Sep 30 12:41 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Sep 30 12:44 |
| schestowitz | I thought it was history | Sep 30 12:44 |
| schestowitz | Novell sacked the team | Sep 30 12:44 |
| schestowitz | In late 2007 | Sep 30 12:44 |
| schestowitz | The leader now works for... Vole | Sep 30 12:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | so why isnt everyone just using selinux already | Sep 30 12:44 |
| oiaohm | You always want more than 1 that works Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Its called secuirty through obsecuirty. | Sep 30 12:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SECURITY THROUGH OBSCURITY | Sep 30 12:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | goddamnit | Sep 30 12:46 |
| oiaohm | There is. | Sep 30 12:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | dont make me have to drive to your house and kick some clue into you | Sep 30 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Not MS define. | Sep 30 12:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | first rule of security: the enemy already knows everything about your system | Sep 30 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Its like putting up a warning sticker on a house that there is an alarm. | Sep 30 12:47 |
| oiaohm | But you don't tell them what alarm you are using. | Sep 30 12:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | first rule of security: the enemy already knows everything about your system | Sep 30 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Some companies still hide their use of Linux | Sep 30 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: enemy does not already know everything. | Sep 30 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Fear is key to reduce number of enemies. | Sep 30 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Windows flaw is lack of veration so there is no fear for attackers in most cases. | Sep 30 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes designing secuirty you presume the worse that attacker was internal Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:05 |
| MinceR | Fear is the mind-killer. | Sep 30 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Its like fitting alarm stickers and no alarm. | Sep 30 13:06 |
| oiaohm | In a high crime area it can reduce breakins by almost 60 percent. | Sep 30 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Yes it supprising how effective a sticker is. | Sep 30 13:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you're nuts | Sep 30 13:07 |
| vcent | encryption is the ultimate in security by obscurity, they go to great lengths to make sure the enemy does not know your equipment, or key. | Sep 30 13:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im glad you dont do computer security for a iving | Sep 30 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: I do computer secuirty as a living. | Sep 30 13:07 |
| MinceR | encryption done right isn't security by obscurity | Sep 30 13:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | encryption done right merely buys time | Sep 30 13:07 |
| oiaohm | I know what causes number of attack attempts to be reduced Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, and you fail | Sep 30 13:08 |
| vcent | I do, actually miltiary security, the equipment has these letter on it that you might recognise NSA. | Sep 30 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Less attacks more time to spend on true attacks. | Sep 30 13:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: a very boring three letters | Sep 30 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Secuirty through obsecuirty is only one layer of a complete system Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | security through obscurity is not a layer | Sep 30 13:08 |
| oiaohm | It is a layer. | Sep 30 13:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a waste of time | Sep 30 13:09 |
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| Diablo-D3 | the enemy already knows everything | Sep 30 13:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only thing you can do is buy time, you can never stop someone who wants your data bad enough | Sep 30 13:09 |
| oiaohm | That is design logic. | Sep 30 13:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | security through obscurity does not buy you time | Sep 30 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Not attacker reduction logic. | Sep 30 13:09 |
| oiaohm | So you have more time so you can go after the determined. | Sep 30 13:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #UNIX and #Linux Eat Microsoft's Share in #Servers , #Phones, #Desktops http://bit.ly/n8tvp | Sep 30 13:11 | |
| phIRCe | Title: 40 years of Unix - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 131.15 KB | Sep 30 13:11 |
| oiaohm | Single packet knocking to open ports is effective for hiding servers. | Sep 30 13:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | nope, its not. | Sep 30 13:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | the enemy already knows everything. | Sep 30 13:11 |
| oiaohm | It is. | Sep 30 13:11 |
| oiaohm | If enemy cannot find target they cannot attack target. | Sep 30 13:11 |
| oiaohm | This is reduction logic. | Sep 30 13:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #Software Should be Treated and Judged by #Freedom http://www.mygnulinux.com/?p=124 | Sep 30 13:12 | |
| phIRCe | Title: My GNU/Linux » Why Software is not treated fairly .::. Size~: 37.39 KB | Sep 30 13:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only way the enemy cannot attack the target is if it doesnt exist | Sep 30 13:12 |
| oiaohm | I want the least number of attackers to deal with. | Sep 30 13:12 |
| oiaohm | This is what the obsecuirty layers are about. | Sep 30 13:12 |
| vcent | your not right up on security Diably, and it does buy you time, do you know what the term "traffic flow secure" means, and if so tell me why thats not security by obscurity ? | Sep 30 13:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | which dont work | Sep 30 13:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gentoo Interviews OSTC Poland's Patryk Rządziński http://bit.ly/F5BFX | Sep 30 13:13 | |
| oiaohm | They do work Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: they dont! | Sep 30 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Like the ssh attacks. | Sep 30 13:13 |
| oiaohm | I have not had that work against any of my servers. | Sep 30 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Because ssh is not displayed. | Sep 30 13:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, and everyone who monitors your traffic already know about your port knocking trick | Sep 30 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Its a one of key. | Sep 30 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Off key | Sep 30 13:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxCon Roundtable Published as Video http://www.techcast.com/events/linuxcon/roundtable/ why moderated by Novell employee? | Sep 30 13:14 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Linux Pro Magazine Live Streaming .::. Size~: 4.39 KB | Sep 30 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Non replayable. | Sep 30 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Nice bit when an attacker replays I know they are there. | Sep 30 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Sorry it works. | Sep 30 13:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | it really doesnt, no. | Sep 30 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Yes it does. | Sep 30 13:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | security through obscurity is what noobs do. | Sep 30 13:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | its the same shit windows "admins" spew | Sep 30 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Leaving ports exposed means you have noobs filling your logs up. | Sep 30 13:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only secure machine is one in a concrete box at the bottom of the ocean | Sep 30 13:15 |
| MinceR | with no wires going through the concrete | Sep 30 13:15 |
| MinceR | and no power. | Sep 30 13:15 |
| oiaohm | So a non usable machine Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: ding! | Sep 30 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Remember I was talking about reduction. | Sep 30 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Not zero attackers. | Sep 30 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Limited area of attackers. | Sep 30 13:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | it only takes _one_ to make it through | Sep 30 13:16 |
| vcent | again, you guys have not ever worked in the area, and it shows. :) know what tempest is ? | Sep 30 13:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] List of Groupware Applications for GNU/Linux and Review of Personal Organiser for GNU/Linux http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/200909211 ... | Sep 30 13:17 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 30 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Finding that one is simpler if you don't have a million others making a mess Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:17 |
| MinceR | what is this, some sort of dickwaving contest? | Sep 30 13:17 |
| oiaohm | So providing the one with a place to hide Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:17 |
| oiaohm | The reduction is a key part of having system monitorable. | Sep 30 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Effectively. | Sep 30 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: temoest is an out of date security standard on trying to stop unintentional data leaks through transmission mediums | Sep 30 13:18 |
| oiaohm | you are really a noob when it comes to setting up real world systems with long term monitering Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:18 |
| vcent | well googled :) | Sep 30 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Its never just one method. | Sep 30 13:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: no, its basic security for data storage facilities | Sep 30 13:19 |
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| Diablo-D3 | its everything from communications over wire/wireless in/out of the building to proper disposal of information storage devices | Sep 30 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Have you ever used data one way gateway hardware Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:20 |
| oiaohm | My systems have mixtures of layers. | Sep 30 13:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: it predates research into, for example, the remote keyboard reading trick | Sep 30 13:20 |
| vcent | btw, it's not a standard, and it's not out of date, tempest hazard mean that a spy can sit outside your house and with special equipment monitor the small signals radiating from your keyboard and monitor. | Sep 30 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | see above | Sep 30 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | tempest basically recommends building your "house" into the side of a gigantic mountain | Sep 30 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | the US government actually has such a facility. | Sep 30 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | several, actually | Sep 30 13:21 |
| oiaohm | No tempest can be blocked quite simply. | Sep 30 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Its called a faridays cage. | Sep 30 13:22 |
| vcent | no it does not, it just requires special design mods to your PC and keyboard and monitor, mainly earthing and shielding. | Sep 30 13:22 |
| MinceR | you probably still need to block sound, vibration and light. | Sep 30 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: faraday cages are not perfect | Sep 30 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they're only one part of useful security scheme if you actually need something like that | Sep 30 13:23 |
| vcent | it's common practice in the military to both shield and exploit it | Sep 30 13:23 |
| oiaohm | faraday cage can be build good enough even with flaws in contrustion that stop tempest dead. | Sep 30 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Power is the most fun part. Must be charge battery independ to system powering. | Sep 30 13:24 |
| vcent | unless you think it's an out of date standard that is, and do nothing | Sep 30 13:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: its based on research in the 60s, 70s, and 80s | Sep 30 13:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | some techniques still work, some need to be modified, new ones need to be added on, some dont apply anymore | Sep 30 13:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | common sense is the ultimate security standard... something stuff like this will always forget. | Sep 30 13:25 |
| vcent | lots of things today are based on research at some time in the past. | Sep 30 13:26 |
| vcent | all in fact | Sep 30 13:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Phones from #Palm Gain Carriers http://bit.ly/HauqG | Sep 30 13:26 | |
| phIRCe | Title: WebOS upgraded as Palm tips more carriers - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 64.76 KB | Sep 30 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Electromagnic is the simplest to deal with. | Sep 30 13:26 |
| oiaohm | The method to deal with them was designed long ago. | Sep 30 13:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | tempest only deals with one kind of side channel attack anyhow | Sep 30 13:26 |
| oiaohm | all the side channel attacks have counters. | Sep 30 13:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #Linux #Phones Comes from #Google , Clarification About #Android Made http://bit.ly/9Kc29 | Sep 30 13:27 | |
| oiaohm | Most are not hard to counter. | Sep 30 13:27 |
| phIRCe | Title: Two Linux smartphones set for October release in U.S. - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 67.98 KB | Sep 30 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: most arent | Sep 30 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Try to name one that is not simple to counter. | Sep 30 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Sound there are ways to counter it. | Sep 30 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Light is simple. | Sep 30 13:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | acoustic analysis is fucked up, btw | Sep 30 13:28 |
| vcent | if you have security that is simple to counter, it's not much good | Sep 30 13:28 |
| oiaohm | The attacks most are simple to counter. | Sep 30 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Its just building stuff right. | Sep 30 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Most people don't bother so these crappy attacks that should not work do. | Sep 30 13:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #GNU #Linux #Tablet is Powered by #Ubuntu http://bit.ly/f9Qm3 | Sep 30 13:29 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Lighthouse SQ7: A Tablet that Shouts at Twitter - Lighthouse SQ7 - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 61.83 KB | Sep 30 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Like you don't find web sites handing like credit cards using hardware one way gateways for storage. | Sep 30 13:29 |
| oiaohm | So attackers who get in get a chance to take everything. | Sep 30 13:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: a properly built storage facility is designed that you dont even trust your own employees | Sep 30 13:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sharp #Smartbook Running #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux is Unveiled, Unboxed http://bit.ly/CpsdW | Sep 30 13:31 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Sharp NetWalker PC-Z1 mini-laptop unboxed .::. Size~: 25.22 KB | Sep 30 13:31 |
| vcent | that sounds like a well designed facility | Sep 30 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: yes but you don't want any more people to watch then you have to. | Sep 30 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Like you don't want to have to watch the complete world population. | Sep 30 13:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: but you know your facility is secure if the whole world can watch it and find nothing. | Sep 30 13:32 |
| vcent | but if you held my data, I would expect you to make sure it was secure from everyone including your own employees | Sep 30 13:32 |
| oiaohm | That is presuming that a human built device is perfect Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: it doesnt have to be perfect | Sep 30 13:32 |
| oiaohm | I don't presume that human built item is perfect without flaw. | Sep 30 13:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | it just has to buy time until a more perfect one is built\ | Sep 30 13:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, any form of encryption _can_ be brute forced | Sep 30 13:33 |
| oiaohm | If everyone out side can see everything they could find a flaw. | Sep 30 13:33 |
| vcent | oimahm, no it cant | Sep 30 13:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | it just needs to be secure against easily performed brute force attacks until that time at which the data secured is no longer useful | Sep 30 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Becuase you gave them too many chances to try. | Sep 30 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Obsecuirty is also about reducing attempts. | Sep 30 13:33 |
| oiaohm | so reducing trys to providing the best chance of lasting. | Sep 30 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Mixture of stuff is required Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Part hiding so least numbers get to known brute force. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, if you're storing your data in a way the outside can freely access it, you've dont wrong | Sep 30 13:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | but thats not obscurity, thats just completely clamping down. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| vcent | you cant brute force military encryption, | Sep 30 13:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: yes you can | Sep 30 13:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: if the encryption can be unlocked, it can be unlocked. | Sep 30 13:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What Moving from #Proprietary to #FreeSoftware Mentality Practically Means http://bit.ly/wqkc0 | Sep 30 13:36 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Why Open Source is not Magic Pixie Dust, Part 284 - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 79.06 KB | Sep 30 13:36 |
| vcent | no you cant, there is not enough computers in the world to even de encrypt a small message. | Sep 30 13:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only way to design an encryption standard that is perfect is to design one that can never be unencrypted. | Sep 30 13:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: computers become faster and faster | Sep 30 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Not always can you 100 percent shut the doors because some data has to go to the outside Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:36 |
| oiaohm | So you need those points as hard to find and attack as possiable Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: an attack against AES can be performed | Sep 30 13:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: with a million dpllars now you can attack AES in about 100 years. | Sep 30 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Shorter Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:37 |
| vcent | computers do become faster, but the number of calculations to decrypt it far exceeds the number to encrypt it, by a massive amount so it works both ways. | Sep 30 13:37 |
| oiaohm | AES 256 takes less to crack than AES 128 | Sep 30 13:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: not entirely true | Sep 30 13:37 |
| oiaohm | due to flaw in AES block shuffling. | Sep 30 13:37 |
| vcent | Traffic flow secure, rolling and variable length keychains, | Sep 30 13:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open Content Movement Makes Many New Gains http://bit.ly/1UctRK http://bit.ly/CfYOQ http://bit.ly/1hDJ5g | Sep 30 13:38 | |
| phIRCe | Title: TechLaw: Sen. Durbin Proposes $15 Million in Grants for Open Textbook Creators .::. Size~: 34.1 KB | Sep 30 13:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | some rijndael implementations suck dick | Sep 30 13:38 |
| oiaohm | AES 256 is wraped AES 128 | Sep 30 13:38 |
| vcent | EVERY character is encrypted with a differnt keychain, so you use massive encryption to try to work it out, but the next charactor is a different key | Sep 30 13:38 |
| oiaohm | AES 128 even that it encrypted you can still see pictures and the like partly in it. | Sep 30 13:38 |
| vcent | and traffic flow secure means the data might be data or crap, it's always outputting stuff. | Sep 30 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Not always do you need to decrypt to see information. | Sep 30 13:39 |
| vcent | cant be decripted, even if you have the crypto device, because you dont have the keymats | Sep 30 13:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: traffic flow security is fun | Sep 30 13:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Year of #FSF / #GNU Anniversary Celebration Ends Today http://bit.ly/FnCxP | Sep 30 13:40 | |
| phIRCe | Title: 25 years of GNU - support software freedom! - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 28.31 KB | Sep 30 13:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, no, AES 256 is not a wrapped 128 | Sep 30 13:40 |
| oiaohm | It is Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:40 |
| oiaohm | Complex wrapper that has a few nice flaws. | Sep 30 13:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, they all use the same code path | Sep 30 13:41 |
| oiaohm | So giving up bits of the 128 key contained inside 256 as weill as removing the wrapper off the top. | Sep 30 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Leaving you with a AES 128 ecrypted file with a few known bits. | Sep 30 13:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #HumanRights of #British Citizens Compromised http://bit.ly/VLT1O http://bit.ly/3jroVj http://bit.ly/2rVjEx | Sep 30 13:42 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Restraining Orders - Big Brother Watch .::. Size~: 32.62 KB | Sep 30 13:42 |
| phIRCe | Title: open...: Thanks for Keeping us in the Picture .::. Size~: 101.87 KB | Sep 30 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: and btw, there are versions of rijndael that arent limited to the version described in aes | Sep 30 13:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're not limited to merely 256 bits for the key. | Sep 30 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Longer key does not mean better Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:43 |
| oiaohm | In the case of AES longer key used on top the more of the 128 base key you solve. | Sep 30 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, it doesnt... but you can also through it through more rounds as well | Sep 30 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Its the rounds where the flaws is. | Sep 30 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're trying to claim 14 isnt enough for 256 | Sep 30 13:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | when it is | Sep 30 13:43 |
| oiaohm | The method for using longer keys is where aes goes flat on face. | Sep 30 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Each crypt system has its flaws. | Sep 30 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Pays to be aware of them. | Sep 30 13:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, but its currently the best we have | Sep 30 13:45 |
| oiaohm | No its not the best we have. | Sep 30 13:45 |
| vcent | best available to general public, again it's very weak encryption compared to the real thing. | Sep 30 13:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: not quite | Sep 30 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Again no vcent | Sep 30 13:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | its how you use it that matters | Sep 30 13:46 |
| oiaohm | The general public has access to a broader range of crypts to use. | Sep 30 13:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | nothing forces you to use a single encryption method, for one | Sep 30 13:46 |
| oiaohm | That do work on more complex keys safer than aes. | Sep 30 13:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | nor does it force you to use a single key | Sep 30 13:46 |
| vcent | Ok, it's the best encryption money can by, nothing on earth is better to it, | Sep 30 13:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | vcent: uh, its free | Sep 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Ie not flawed and not proving less and less secruity the large the key gets. | Sep 30 13:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact almost all the AES finalists were free | Sep 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | ie simpler to brute. | Sep 30 13:47 |
| vcent | they are all weak encryption compared to military, and security | Sep 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | No some of the open soruce ones are Militrary rated. | Sep 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Highter than AES | Sep 30 13:47 |
| oiaohm | AES was rated higher until it was found the expand key method in it was flawed. | Sep 30 13:48 |
| vcent | ofcourse you can brute it, it's only one key, no matter how long it is, now try it when the key changes for every character you send, | Sep 30 13:48 |
| vcent | how do you decrypt one charactor ?? you cant. | Sep 30 13:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: uh | Sep 30 13:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | no | Sep 30 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Its called pattern flaws vcent | Sep 30 13:49 |
| vcent | thats right so what patter does something make when there is ONLY ONE of them ?? | Sep 30 13:49 |
| vcent | great you get a dot. | Sep 30 13:49 |
| vcent | big help. | Sep 30 13:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | seeing as AES was joint project between the NSA and NIST to choose a standard that can encrypt top secret data | Sep 30 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, it works | Sep 30 13:50 |
| oiaohm | At the time yes. | Sep 30 13:50 |
| oiaohm | As with all things made by humans humans can screw up Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | rijndael was chosen for AES in 2000 | Sep 30 13:50 |
| vcent | might be from NSA and NIST but it's not what they use for military and security. | Sep 30 13:50 |
| *fewa (n=fewa@unaffiliated/fewa) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 13:50 | |
| oiaohm | Failure is 2007 Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes and there has been no _useful_ failure | Sep 30 13:51 |
| oiaohm | When the flaw was found Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:51 |
| oiaohm | That means 256 is a smaller key to brute than 128 aes. | Sep 30 13:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: it sounds like you're describing a side channel attack | Sep 30 13:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | not an attack on AES | Sep 30 13:51 |
| oiaohm | And each time the aes goes larger. | Sep 30 13:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | either provide it or shut up. | Sep 30 13:51 |
| oiaohm | The functional key to crack will reduce. | Sep 30 13:52 |
| oiaohm | AES over 256 is pointless unless the upper code is changed. | Sep 30 13:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | you forget, I read bruce schneier's blog | Sep 30 13:52 |
| trmanco | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/august-2009-browser-stats-ie-continues-its-slow-decline.ars | Sep 30 13:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Try to "Save the Coach and Horse Industry in the Age of the Automobile” http://bit.ly/2sm2TZ | Sep 30 13:53 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Hadopi 2 The Relapse « kNOw Future Inc. .::. Size~: 41.06 KB | Sep 30 13:53 |
| phIRCe | Title: August 2009 browser stats: IE continues its slow decline - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 43.06 KB | Sep 30 13:53 |
| oiaohm | I have not forgot to read bruce schneier's. Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:53 |
| trmanco | at the bottom of that article you can see their own statistics | Sep 30 13:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: Im already aware of the attacks those two russian guys have been doing | Sep 30 13:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I think you're trying to quote them but dont actually get what they meant | Sep 30 13:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | they didnt prove 256 was easier than 128 | Sep 30 13:54 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: The russian guys methods missed something. | Sep 30 13:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | they proved 256 is easier _per bit_ than 128 | Sep 30 13:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | that doesnt mean less computation time per attempt | Sep 30 13:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MarkCuban Attacks to Make the Web More Like TV http://www.p2pnet.net/story/29024 http://bit.ly/tahV5 | Sep 30 13:55 | |
| phIRCe | Title: p2pnet news » Blog Archive » Mark Cuban on net neutrality: Flat out wrong .::. Size~: 62.14 KB | Sep 30 13:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | it just means the apparent security of 256 over 128 is ever slightly less | Sep 30 13:55 |
| phIRCe | Title: Netflix Everywhere: Sorry Cable, You're History .::. Size~: 57.05 KB | Sep 30 13:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | it doesnt prove an actual encryption break has happened | Sep 30 13:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | now, this may eventually lead to one | Sep 30 13:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have a prototype attack that they came out with a couple months back that works on weakened versions of AES | Sep 30 13:56 |
| oiaohm | They did not expand the key to see that a solve point comes Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 13:56 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 30 13:57 | |
| oiaohm | So aes cannot go larger. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | and when AES is broken, oiaohm, it still wont mean what you think it does | Sep 30 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Or you will break it. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | it only means it takes less time than a brute attack: it still takes FOREVER | Sep 30 13:57 |
| *magentar (n=magentar@ip-62-143-93-17.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 13:57 | |
| oiaohm | if you add on more bits you will bring the solve point shorter. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | which means we select a new standard, AES2. | Sep 30 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Exactly normal AES is limited. | Sep 30 13:58 |
| fewa | why doesn't shit like this get Apple sued http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/26/quicktime_drm_cripples_adobe_programs/ ? | Sep 30 13:58 |
| phIRCe | Title: DRM in latest QuickTime cripples Adobe video editing code • The Register .::. Size~: 21.73 KB | Sep 30 13:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: because no one gives a fuck about an adobe bug | Sep 30 13:58 |
| oiaohm | And hopeful the replacement AES2 is not hiding another destruction bug. | Sep 30 13:59 |
| fewa | perhaps this would be the thing enabled by the "material default" no-disclaimable clause | Sep 30 13:59 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, maybe not in computing, but in publishing there are many would might have had their business come to a standstill | Sep 30 13:59 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, just read the story | Sep 30 13:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: thats not what I meant | Sep 30 13:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | quicktime exposed a bug in adobe's software | Sep 30 13:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | I already read about it when it happened | Sep 30 13:59 |
| fewa | Did they disclose that this "upgrade" could cause this harm | Sep 30 14:00 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, you didn't read the article | Sep 30 14:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | they probably didnt know about it | Sep 30 14:00 |
| fewa | its all DRM | Sep 30 14:00 |
| fewa | not defects at all | Sep 30 14:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not actually drm | Sep 30 14:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | its adobe produced buggy files | Sep 30 14:00 |
| fewa | Adobe doesn't have enought DRM for Apple | Sep 30 14:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | adobe did fix their software | Sep 30 14:00 |
| fewa | Apple mandates DRM | Sep 30 14:00 |
| fewa | they make their APIs declare DRM | Sep 30 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | uh-huh | Sep 30 14:01 |
| fewa | and the default is to assume users are criminals | Sep 30 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Also the demo here of quantum cracking here Diablo-D3 shows that most of the stuff like AES could have less than 10 years before something desktop can shatter it. | Sep 30 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | so if you dont like it, dont run adobe softare. | Sep 30 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes | Sep 30 14:01 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, in this case it was Apple's software | Sep 30 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: but thats an entirely different issue | Sep 30 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: not really | Sep 30 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Sep 30 14:01 |
| fewa | but yeah if it was Adobes I would be attacking them | Sep 30 14:01 |
| fewa | hmm | Sep 30 14:01 |
| oiaohm | The flaw in AES 256 makes the cracking device simpler to build Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:01 |
| fewa | well I don't use Adobe software either | Sep 30 14:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes and no | Sep 30 14:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mono-Nono Explains the "Microsoft Hater" Label http://bit.ly/4fbQ7U | Sep 30 14:02 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Traitorous Thoughts .::. Size~: 19.32 KB | Sep 30 14:02 |
| oiaohm | It is yes Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: it still takes _time_ | Sep 30 14:02 |
| fewa | but when this sort of ship happens due to companies trying to assume people as criminals thats a tortious damage | Sep 30 14:02 |
| oiaohm | quantum not much time. | Sep 30 14:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | quantum computing only changes the definition of time | Sep 30 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Currently doable in quite resonable time if you have a full bench to cover in gear. | Sep 30 14:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | quantum computing may also not work | Sep 30 14:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Contrary to popular opinion. Google Chrome _can_ crash, and _can_ take out _every_ instance of the browser. #dataloss | Sep 30 14:04 | |
| Diablo-D3 | it _also_ may make techniques that we didnt use because it takes too much time usable | Sep 30 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Working systems also work so the may not work is not the issue. | Sep 30 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Each quantum processing chip must be designed to match exactly what it is cracking. | Sep 30 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes | Sep 30 14:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | which means, for example, a polymorphic version of AES would defeat it | Sep 30 14:05 |
| oiaohm | Not for sure. | Sep 30 14:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | such as randomly selecting key size and number of rounds | Sep 30 14:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | but that, too, is security through obscurity | Sep 30 14:05 |
| oiaohm | If the chip can be designed to process for the polymorphic AES you are using still stuffed. | Sep 30 14:05 |
| trmanco | http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/world/birds-sucked-into-jets-engines/story-e6frev00-1225781047351 | Sep 30 14:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: 200 birds sucked into jet's engines | The Daily Telegraph .::. Size~: 60.94 KB | Sep 30 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: either way | Sep 30 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | if that stuff happens | Sep 30 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | a new standard will be invented | Sep 30 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Current issue is size and setup time. | Sep 30 14:06 |
| oiaohm | Full bench of gear to setup around a chip is kinda insane. | Sep 30 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | we wont have to worry about bin laden's magic quantum computing bomb for another decade | Sep 30 14:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Windows Home Server requires a 65GB disk to install onto. Yeah, its a media tank, but just for install? | Sep 30 14:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows Home Server Delayed, Again, Like the Critical Data Loss Patches http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=4101 Excuses, excuses | Sep 30 14:07 | |
| Diablo-D3 | so we have time | Sep 30 14:07 |
| oiaohm | So far only working demos I have seen are here in Australia so you most likely have time Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | there are three reasons encryption on the internet exists | Sep 30 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | porn, banking, and bittorrent. | Sep 30 14:08 |
| oiaohm | But 10 years might be optimistic if someone has a brain wave how to pack the bench of gear down. | Sep 30 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not quite worried about any of the three yet | Sep 30 14:08 |
| oiaohm | We do have to keep a eye on it Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, _you_ do | Sep 30 14:08 |
| oiaohm | Just in case things progress bit faster than we expect. | Sep 30 14:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont really give a shit atm | Sep 30 14:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Apple's Monopolistic Behaviour Hurts #Linux http://bit.ly/8tkRE http://techdirt.com/articles/20090929/0337136349.shtml http://www.slate ... | Sep 30 14:09 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Palm Pre backs away from Apple iTunes • The Register .::. Size~: 21.1 KB | Sep 30 14:09 |
| phIRCe | Title: Why Apple Should Let Other Devices Connect To iTunes | Techdirt .::. Size~: 172.49 KB | Sep 30 14:09 |
| phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 1.95 KB | Sep 30 14:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | jesus christ url much | Sep 30 14:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dumping #Microsoft #SharePoint Now Made More Trivial http://bit.ly/3PaVF7 #lockin #defective | Sep 30 14:11 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Cracking Open the SharePoint Fortress - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 96.09 KB | Sep 30 14:11 |
| oiaohm | banking lot are not depending on encryption alone any more Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Lot here are backing it up with SMS confirmation Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | sure, they can do that with me when they buy me a cell phone | Sep 30 14:14 |
| oiaohm | I had to get a cell phone to deal with 1 bank online here. No other option. | Sep 30 14:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow, I'd sue | Sep 30 14:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | they already have my email address | Sep 30 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Legally cannot here. | Sep 30 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Online access does not have to be provided. | Sep 30 14:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm not paying $75 a month for the privilege of doing business with them | Sep 30 14:15 |
| oiaohm | Its not that much. | Sep 30 14:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | it is here. | Sep 30 14:16 |
| oiaohm | Prepaid about 5 dollars a month. | Sep 30 14:16 |
| oiaohm | 5 AUD a month | Sep 30 14:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | here prepaid phones suck badly, often cut out, break easily, and cant do anything | Sep 30 14:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I dont think they can do sms yet | Sep 30 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Prepaid phones here SMS perfectly. | Sep 30 14:17 |
| oiaohm | Its the one thing they do well here. | Sep 30 14:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont like doing business with economic terrorists, and thats the way it is | Sep 30 14:17 |
| oiaohm | The SMS thing came in after the cracking demo. Good part is the bank is concidering providing a form of free page/phone device. | Sep 30 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Ie only can do one task confirm or fail transation. | Sep 30 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Also we don't have like the USA burn phones. All phones here you must present a drivers licence or other id paperwork to get Diablo-D3 | Sep 30 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow, that should be struck down | Sep 30 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont care if its not the US, thats a bad violation of privacy | Sep 30 14:21 |
| MinceR | agreed | Sep 30 14:21 |
| oiaohm | You think your goverment did a lot in the chase of terror to the public. | Sep 30 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Before sep 11 you could get phones without paperwork. | Sep 30 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Here. | Sep 30 14:23 |
| fewa | geeze | Sep 30 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, which is why people need to fight terrorism | Sep 30 14:23 |
| fewa | so cell phones are little spying devices | Sep 30 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | not only in the deserts of iraq, but in their own government offices | Sep 30 14:23 |
| fewa | thank god for that 4th amendment | Sep 30 14:23 |
| schestowitz | fewa: among other things | Sep 30 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | the terrorists won because WE ELECTED THEM | Sep 30 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | remember that people | Sep 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | That's just the added value (not to you) | Sep 30 14:24 |
| oiaohm | USA added the requirement that cell phones have to contain a gps chip | Sep 30 14:24 |
| fewa | here they do it in violation of the law | Sep 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | If these gadgets can be popularised and imposed by employers, they'll manage to track you down | Sep 30 14:24 |
| oiaohm | So you can turn them quite simply into tracking devices. | Sep 30 14:24 |
| schestowitz | "They" as in employers, rescuers... AND government (just don't mind that last part) | Sep 30 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: then I wont carry mine. | Sep 30 14:24 |
| fewa | I don't use cell phones cause they are not yours | Sep 30 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | which means I wont pay for it either | Sep 30 14:25 |
| oiaohm | People have no clue how much privacy is gone. | Sep 30 14:25 |
| fewa | Its the phone companies, and the economic manager's | Sep 30 14:25 |
| masticator | schestowitz: they are also used by law enforcement and emergency services people to save lives | Sep 30 14:25 |
| schestowitz | Italy wants to get into Skype convos now too | Sep 30 14:25 |
| schestowitz | They don't like being out | Sep 30 14:25 |
| schestowitz | They blame "criminals" and "terrorists" | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | In Austria I think they already have a skype back door | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | Not sure about Germany though | Sep 30 14:26 |
| masticator | and I got news for you, employers are taking away blackberries from people to cut wireless costs because they are very expensive to mainain | Sep 30 14:26 |
| oiaohm | Scary one is when someone in the usa go the idea of having vending machines message you when you where close to them. | Sep 30 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | then skype should be made illegal | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | masticator: yes, I said that | Sep 30 14:26 |
| fewa | masticator, look at network neutrality | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | It can be used for good and for bad | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | Or it can be marketed using the good to do the bad | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | Same with TPM | Sep 30 14:26 |
| fewa | the FCC in the us hands over billions of dollars of EMSpectrum to incumbants | Sep 30 14:26 |
| schestowitz | Security and restriction | Sep 30 14:27 |
| schestowitz | Fine balance | Sep 30 14:27 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm and I discussed it some months ago | Sep 30 14:27 |
| trmanco | http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9pbeu/on_mono_miguel_stallman_and_fusion_with_microsoft/ | Sep 30 14:27 |
| phIRCe | Title: On Mono, Miguel, Stallman and Fusion with Microsoft; Groklaw's PJ in full on "set up us the bomb" mode : linux .::. Size~: 133.47 KB | Sep 30 14:27 |
| oiaohm | Now the bad part about USA GPS chip rule user of device does not have have access to it. | Sep 30 14:27 |
| fewa | look at DTV, they valued it at $11-70 BIllion, and they were require by congress (at the behest of lobbiests) to prohibit auctioning | Sep 30 14:27 |
| oiaohm | Ok have the means to track me fine. | Sep 30 14:27 |
| fewa | massive corporate welface | Sep 30 14:27 |
| fewa | *welfare | Sep 30 14:27 |
| masticator | Now THAT article is a mouthful. | Sep 30 14:27 |
| oiaohm | But I should have the right to know when in hell I am. | Sep 30 14:27 |
| masticator | I needed four cups of coffee to try to interpret that. | Sep 30 14:27 |
| fewa | if there was real network neutrality, real equality, then prices would be much lower | Sep 30 14:28 |
| fewa | and there would be a cornucopia of free software operating systems on phones | Sep 30 14:28 |
| fewa | as we have it, there are multiple _incompatible_ networks around the US | Sep 30 14:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Music of the day .::. Michael Feiner - It must be the music : http://is.gd/3OLQs | Sep 30 14:29 | |
| fewa | its a total mess | Sep 30 14:29 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Michael Feiner - must be the music (extended mix) .::. Size~: 102.71 KB | Sep 30 14:29 |
| oiaohm | I like that I am starting to see MS people kind of beg | Sep 30 14:29 |
| masticator | there's going to be a ton of open source operating systems on phones. | Sep 30 14:29 |
| oiaohm | Like the meet us half way on zdnet. | Sep 30 14:29 |
| fewa | a whole business centered around gouging people with overages, length contracts that make competition impossible | Sep 30 14:29 |
| masticator | oiaohm: I resemble that comment, thanks. | Sep 30 14:29 |
| masticator | I have no problem with meeting half way. | Sep 30 14:30 |
| fewa | and fundamentally unneutral networks | Sep 30 14:30 |
| fewa | that do nothing but hinder innovation, competition, and progress | Sep 30 14:30 |
| oiaohm | When selling a new product you should have enough new features so you don't need to beg like that masticator | Sep 30 14:30 |
| masticator | beg? | Sep 30 14:30 |
| fewa | masticator, but if the Telecoms retail complete control how will that be freedom? | Sep 30 14:31 |
| masticator | products fail or succeed on whether or not consumers accept them in the marketplace | Sep 30 14:31 |
| schestowitz | good comments, trmanco | Sep 30 14:31 |
| schestowitz | More people start to realise BN was right all along | Sep 30 14:31 |
| schestowitz | Since 2006 | Sep 30 14:31 |
| masticator | I don't care, I don't subscribe to Stallman's ideologies. | Sep 30 14:31 |
| fewa | It will be a bastard child like Android, locked in, poisoned with non-free components (Google even sends cease-and-decist letters to forkers) | Sep 30 14:31 |
| masticator | wireless carries want polished products | Sep 30 14:32 |
| fewa | masticator, but how can there be competition if Telecoms say what can and cannot run on their networks | Sep 30 14:32 |
| fewa | masticator, instead of just saying what protocols can be used | Sep 30 14:32 |
| masticator | not half baked consumer electronics with OSes thta do not meet the needs of their customers | Sep 30 14:32 |
| fewa | masticator, but what about Verizon phones, the things stick of feces | Sep 30 14:32 |
| masticator | I may go with a verizon android device next | Sep 30 14:33 |
| fewa | masticator, they can't do basic functions, property display HTML, run faster JAVA apps | Sep 30 14:33 |
| oiaohm | moblin I am finding funny. | Sep 30 14:33 |
| fewa | they are useless piles of junk | Sep 30 14:33 |
| masticator | I abandoned my blackberry contract yesterday because my employer stopped paying for it. | Sep 30 14:33 |
| fewa | masticator, just compare with phones of japan to see the difference | Sep 30 14:33 |
| oiaohm | There is no such thing as a true moblin only OS. | Sep 30 14:33 |
| oiaohm | moblin is a framework any distribution can have. | Sep 30 14:33 |
| fewa | innovation canot happen when there is no ability to get new customers | Sep 30 14:33 |
| masticator | and I got sick of AT&T's coverage issues | Sep 30 14:33 |
| fewa | due to anti-competitive lock-in, spectrum privitization | Sep 30 14:34 |
| fewa | and DRM | Sep 30 14:34 |
| masticator | so I'll probably get an android as my next device | Sep 30 14:34 |
| oiaohm | I also like the dell new hybred laptop as well. They refer to the arm chip with linux on as the spare tire just in case windows breaks. | Sep 30 14:34 |
| fewa | masticator, the spectrum is a public spectrum, it could be used with open protocols and a lease system | Sep 30 14:34 |
| masticator | on verizon, because their coverage in the NY area and most of the places I travel is better. its an issue of practicality | Sep 30 14:34 |
| fewa | small-scale | Sep 30 14:34 |
| fewa | instead of incumbant only | Sep 30 14:34 |
| masticator | software is only a very small issue when it comes to problems in the wireless industry | Sep 30 14:35 |
| fewa | masticator, thats because the verizon network in completely incompatible with the other networks, no other country has such a mess of incompatibility | Sep 30 14:35 |
| masticator | in the US we have two types of transcievers in use | Sep 30 14:35 |
| masticator | plus ther is the whole idea of device exclusivity | Sep 30 14:35 |
| masticator | that the carriers make the manufacturers participate in | Sep 30 14:35 |
| fewa | anti-compeitive | Sep 30 14:35 |
| masticator | and the whole subsidization racket | Sep 30 14:35 |
| fewa | there is no subsidization | Sep 30 14:36 |
| masticator | software is the least of its problems | Sep 30 14:36 |
| masticator | fewa it is percieved subsidization | Sep 30 14:36 |
| fewa | if phones were a free market prices would be what telecoms are claiming is "subdized" | Sep 30 14:36 |
| masticator | thats why I said racket | Sep 30 14:36 |
| fewa | Theys why people can buy prepaids and throw them in the trash | Sep 30 14:36 |
| oiaohm | fewa: not exactly true. | Sep 30 14:37 |
| oiaohm | So far in this area we have 3 networks that you cannot cross towers between. | Sep 30 14:37 |
| fewa | well OK, it is the worst mess possible | Sep 30 14:37 |
| masticator | oiaohm: those things have very low manufacturing costs | Sep 30 14:37 |
| fewa | The united states needs network neutrality for cellular communications | Sep 30 14:38 |
| oiaohm | Australia started off with a clean network with high prices fewa | Sep 30 14:38 |
| masticator | fewa: they dont need network neutrality, the smartphones which cost so much need modular designs | Sep 30 14:38 |
| oiaohm | Ie One company ie the goverment owned the lot. | Sep 30 14:38 |
| fewa | The Military tore down Iraq cellular towers owned by a local government | Sep 30 14:38 |
| masticator | so that GSM/HSDPA and CDMA trancievers can be swapped on the same unit | Sep 30 14:39 |
| masticator | if a customer wants to move networks | Sep 30 14:39 |
| masticator | and so a manufacturer doesnt have to make an excuslive design to one carrier | Sep 30 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Here we have basicallly got rid of CDMA | Sep 30 14:39 |
| fewa | then they gave a no-bid contract to build a US-style cellular system--imcompatible with every other network in the middle east--for an outrageous sum of federal monies. | Sep 30 14:39 |
| masticator | oiaohm CDMA is a good technology | Sep 30 14:39 |
| oiaohm | That is something we are fairly good with. | Sep 30 14:39 |
| masticator | it has its merits | Sep 30 14:39 |
| oiaohm | 3g and GSM is all we have. | Sep 30 14:40 |
| masticator | but the market has to decide on these things, not forced government action | Sep 30 14:40 |
| oiaohm | CDMA was droped due to encryption problems masticator | Sep 30 14:40 |
| fewa | Its vagrant Corporate Welfare | Sep 30 14:40 |
| oiaohm | This is what happens here. Secuirty problems in the phone network sees phones be cut off. | Sep 30 14:41 |
| masticator | oiaohm where do you live? | Sep 30 14:41 |
| fewa | AU | Sep 30 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Australia masticator | Sep 30 14:42 |
| oiaohm | We have quite a regulated phone system. | Sep 30 14:42 |
| fewa | and it works better than the US's | Sep 30 14:42 |
| oiaohm | Define better. | Sep 30 14:42 |
| fewa | idk, u know more than me | Sep 30 14:42 |
| masticator | I don't know enough about australia's market dynamics to comment, really. | Sep 30 14:42 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes people cannot change networks because there phone is not up to new systems. | Sep 30 14:43 |
| masticator | what may work for them won't necessarily work in the US. | Sep 30 14:43 |
| oiaohm | Like some telstra old phones cannot be connect to new carriors becuase they don't inculde the new encyption that might be in place in the next years. | Sep 30 14:43 |
| masticator | my biggest beef with wireless carriers in the US, and I dont know if it exists anywhere else, is that phones themselves only have 1 year warranties but contracts are 2 years. | Sep 30 14:43 |
| oiaohm | And when it becomes enforces your phone is basically dead. | Sep 30 14:44 |
| masticator | so when your phone dies after 1 year, you get hit with full retail when you have to buy a new phone from your carrier. | Sep 30 14:44 |
| fewa | the contracts should be deemed illegal | Sep 30 14:44 |
| masticator | and in AT&T's case you have to re-up your contract to extend it | Sep 30 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Normally it 4 year old phones. | Sep 30 14:44 |
| fewa | they only hurt the market | Sep 30 14:44 |
| oiaohm | That are dead. | Sep 30 14:44 |
| masticator | I dont have a problem with contracts. | Sep 30 14:44 |
| oiaohm | But you don't want to buy old stock. | Sep 30 14:44 |
| Omar87 | Hi all | Sep 30 14:45 |
| fewa | they have to provide a _commodity_ | Sep 30 14:45 |
| masticator | the warranty of the device needs to match the contract | Sep 30 14:45 |
| fewa | markets can only function with commidities | Sep 30 14:45 |
| masticator | so it should be a 1 year contract | Sep 30 14:45 |
| oiaohm | Here we have contracts and non contracts. | Sep 30 14:45 |
| masticator | if the manufacturers cannot commit to 2 years | Sep 30 14:45 |
| fewa | and telecoms do all they can to destroy the markey | Sep 30 14:45 |
| oiaohm | All phones here must be aquirement off contract. | Sep 30 14:45 |
| fewa | *market | Sep 30 14:45 |
| schestowitz | hi Omar87 | Sep 30 14:46 |
| fewa | but ID rules, wow, sounds like UK | Sep 30 14:46 |
| masticator | it doesnt work well in every country. | Sep 30 14:46 |
| masticator | I was in the bahamas on vacation about six months ago | Sep 30 14:46 |
| oiaohm | Biggest pest here is if you aquire phone on contract you have to pay a fee to use another carrior. | Sep 30 14:46 |
| masticator | nothing is subsidized | Sep 30 14:46 |
| masticator | the phones are so expensive | Sep 30 14:46 |
| oiaohm | Really? | Sep 30 14:46 |
| masticator | because nobody pays income tax. | Sep 30 14:46 |
| fewa | masticator, alot is because of trade issues | Sep 30 14:47 |
| fewa | tariffs | Sep 30 14:47 |
| fewa | I talked with someone in Egypt | Sep 30 14:47 |
| fewa | and all electronics were like that | Sep 30 14:47 |
| oiaohm | 99 AUD phone without contract masticator | Sep 30 14:47 |
| oiaohm | How is that expensive. | Sep 30 14:47 |
| masticator | so because they have no income tax, they pay when they shop | Sep 30 14:47 |
| masticator | so an iphone costs 1000 dollars. | Sep 30 14:47 |
| fewa | everything much more expensive than US, which has a functioning market | Sep 30 14:47 |
| oiaohm | So you want to be flashy masticator | Sep 30 14:47 |
| masticator | ok, but even a basic nokia costs 300 bucks. | Sep 30 14:47 |
| oiaohm | What the. | Sep 30 14:48 |
| fewa | the iPhone isn't yours | Sep 30 14:48 |
| masticator | so theres a huge market for second hand phones | Sep 30 14:48 |
| masticator | that come from europe and the US. | Sep 30 14:48 |
| oiaohm | Basic nokia here new is under 99 | Sep 30 14:48 |
| oiaohm | USD is more than AUD. | Sep 30 14:48 |
| masticator | all phones in the bahamas use pay as you go sims | Sep 30 14:48 |
| fewa | ^^ | Sep 30 14:48 |
| masticator | virtually every one. | Sep 30 14:48 |
| fewa | 1 U.S. dollar = 1.13352981 AUD | Sep 30 14:48 |
| masticator | in hong kong they do the same, but phones have two sims | Sep 30 14:49 |
| oiaohm | I guess your get ripped badly. | Sep 30 14:49 |
| masticator | one for incoming calls | Sep 30 14:49 |
| oiaohm | 2 sim model is 150 AUD | Sep 30 14:49 |
| masticator | and one for outgoing using pay as you go plans | Sep 30 14:49 |
| fewa | 1 Canadian dollar = 0.931966 U.S. dollars | Sep 30 14:49 |
| fewa | eek | Sep 30 14:49 |
| fewa | I remember when 1 CAD = 0.64 USD | Sep 30 14:49 |
| oiaohm | USD has sliped. | Sep 30 14:49 |
| masticator | yeah not such a bargain to shop in canada anymore. | Sep 30 14:50 |
| fewa | oiaohm, not really | Sep 30 14:50 |
| masticator | I used to buy a ton of stuff there. | Sep 30 14:50 |
| oiaohm | I remember when it was about 2 AUD to 1 USD. | Sep 30 14:50 |
| oiaohm | It has sliped to AUD. | Sep 30 14:50 |
| masticator | used to bring back entire cases of cuban rum | Sep 30 14:50 |
| fewa | oiaohm, it went up against YEN, YUAN, EURO post-2008 | Sep 30 14:50 |
| masticator | and whisky | Sep 30 14:50 |
| Omar87 | http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs240.snc1/8718_140630154633_539864633_2394898_2783195_n.jpg | Sep 30 14:50 |
| phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.01 KB | Sep 30 14:50 |
| fewa | but yeah from 2002-->2007 | Sep 30 14:50 |
| fewa | (Bush) | Sep 30 14:50 |
| fewa | and clinton/greenspan | Sep 30 14:51 |
| fewa | policies | Sep 30 14:51 |
| oiaohm | I guess its partly that we are closer to where the phones are made. | Sep 30 14:51 |
| fewa | oiaohm, nope | Sep 30 14:51 |
| fewa | cheap in US too | Sep 30 14:51 |
| fewa | of course very efficient distribution to US | Sep 30 14:51 |
| fewa | parts(TW/CH)-->assembly-->HK/SHZ-->LA--train/truck-->big-box store-->customer | Sep 30 14:52 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 14:53 | |
| oiaohm | Most of the cheep ones here are GSM | Sep 30 14:54 |
| oiaohm | ie the short range models. | Sep 30 14:55 |
| Omar87 | Anyone knows of a good Python-written IRC bot? I'm looking for something I can study. | Sep 30 14:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Ice Age 3 – Created Partly On XFCE | The Digital Prism | Sep 30 14:56 | |
| fewa | creepy-ass World Bank dictator 7:30 http://www.democracynow.org/2009/9/29/headlines | Sep 30 14:56 |
| phIRCe | Title: Democracy Now! | Headlines for September 29, 2009 .::. Size~: 37.23 KB | Sep 30 14:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] $338M Patent Ruling Against Microsoft Overturned - Did anyone expect any different from Microsoft? http://tinyurl.com/y9xnncs | Sep 30 14:58 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | $338M Patent Ruling Against Microsoft Overturned .::. Size~: 141.51 KB | Sep 30 14:58 |
| Omar87 | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090927151401988 | Sep 30 14:59 |
| phIRCe | Title: Groklaw - On Mono, Miguel, Stallman and Fusion with Microsoft .::. Size~: 133.63 KB | Sep 30 14:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Ice Age 3 – Created Partly On XFCE oops, forgot the URL http://tinyurl.com/yah6e97 | Sep 30 15:00 | |
| masticator | Pam should stick to her focus area | Sep 30 15:02 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Sep 30 15:04 |
| schestowitz | She had suppressed her feelings about Mono and Miguel long enough | Sep 30 15:04 |
| schestowitz | And now RMS is attacked for it | Sep 30 15:04 |
| schestowitz | He suppressed it too | Sep 30 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Cause they are afraid of being ad-hominem-ed to irrelevance | Sep 30 15:04 |
| schestowitz | I say, "to hell with it. Say the truth, politely" | Sep 30 15:05 |
| schestowitz | Others are like, "welll, I have my opinions, but I'd rather not spread about it cause it's embarrassing" | Sep 30 15:05 |
| schestowitz | BTW.. | Sep 30 15:05 |
| schestowitz | apropos, it's very much like this in politics too | Sep 30 15:05 |
| schestowitz | Many candidates are shy to admit they are atheists | Sep 30 15:05 |
| masticator | schestowitz she went compltely off the rails, it wasnt even a rational article | Sep 30 15:05 |
| schestowitz | Cause it's not good for electability | Sep 30 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Miguel annoys me in one ways than 1. | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdvlXk7Gzwo&feature=related Kevin Powell went agnostic. | Sep 30 15:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Naomi Wolf with Kevin Powell at the Brooklyn Book Festival .::. Size~: 139.23 KB | Sep 30 15:06 |
| Omar87 | http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/29/microsoft-unveils-barrelfish-multi-core-optimized-os/ | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | "Oh, no!" | Sep 30 15:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft unveils Barrelfish multi-core optimized OS .::. Size~: 139.09 KB | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | "Hide" | Sep 30 15:06 |
| *masticator is now known as JPerlow | Sep 30 15:06 | |
| schestowitz | The voters will stone them scary "atheists" | Sep 30 15:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm actually minorly interested in barrelfish | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | roy@roy:~$ whois 24.187.189.135 | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Optimum Online OOL-2BLK (NET-24-184-0-0-1) | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | 24.184.0.0 - 24.187.255.255 | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Optimum Online (Cablevision Systems) OOL-CPE-BRFDNJ-24-187-176-0-20 (NET-24-187-176-0-1) | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | 24.187.176.0 - 24.187.191.255 | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | # ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2009-09-29 20:00 | Sep 30 15:06 |
| schestowitz | # Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database. | Sep 30 15:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @ThistleWeb who who expect different http://ur1.ca/cous from a special court taking away from geographical distribution? http://ur1.ca/couw | Sep 30 15:07 | |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: are you forging or not? | Sep 30 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Just making sure. | Sep 30 15:07 |
| JPerlow | I figured I would get that over with. | Sep 30 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Ah... | Sep 30 15:07 |
| JPerlow | Next. | Sep 30 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Miguel and me have bad history. Started off when I was trying to get a unified applicaiton menu system for desktops on Unix/Linux that snow balled into the freedesktop project. Yes freedesktop name comes to one of my lines in the argument over the menus. | Sep 30 15:07 |
| schestowitz | But Jason, I could say a similar thing | Sep 30 15:07 |
| *phIRCe has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 30 15:07 | |
| schestowitz | Why did you or /I/ touch on the subject? | Sep 30 15:07 |
| schestowitz | As in Mono? | Sep 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Not many people want to touch it | Sep 30 15:08 |
| JPerlow | I have no problem touching it. | Sep 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Me neither | Sep 30 15:08 |
| JPerlow | its an interoperability technology. | Sep 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | I think not | Sep 30 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Patent risk not work gain. | Sep 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | It's interop the Microsoft way | Sep 30 15:08 |
| JPerlow | well, then we agree to disagree. | Sep 30 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Let me show you a diagram | Sep 30 15:08 |
| JPerlow | so? | Sep 30 15:09 |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: lets take intel and moonlight. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Intel will not touch moonlight. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| oiaohm | so MS has been forced to release silverlight correctly. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Visual illustration; http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/05/embrace-extend-and-monodevelop/ | Sep 30 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Without the risk to end users. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| JPerlow | well, its not particularly functional yet. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| JPerlow | it makes sense for them to license the technology directly from microsoft. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| JPerlow | moonlight doesnt work with every silverlight app. | Sep 30 15:09 |
| schestowitz | And have us pay? | Sep 30 15:09 |
| schestowitz | And for what? | Sep 30 15:10 |
| schestowitz | To help Microsoft compete with Adobe? | Sep 30 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Moonlight does not provide patent coverage for at users. | Sep 30 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Heck, Adobe charges us nothing on the spot | Sep 30 15:10 |
| JPerlow | Intel obviously feels it makes sense to include silverlight in their product. | Sep 30 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Adobe just uses Linux users to expand market share, but there's no licensing associated with it | Sep 30 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Really. | Sep 30 15:10 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: so does Nokia | Sep 30 15:10 |
| oiaohm | moblin is not a intel product JPerlow | Sep 30 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Since around March 2008 IIRC | Sep 30 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Media is dumb. | Sep 30 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Moblin is Linux foundation product. | Sep 30 15:11 |
| JPerlow | well, its a cross vendor initiative which LF sponsors. | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | It's not | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: PJ wrote to me about this | Sep 30 15:11 |
| JPerlow | but there will be many moblins. | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | It's still Intel | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Just passing it elsewhere for spread | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | And the same issues then get inherited | Sep 30 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Control of moblin is transfered to Linux foundation these days schestowitz | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | What is LF? | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | It's just a bunch of people in an office | Sep 30 15:11 |
| JPerlow | Linux Foundation. | Sep 30 15:11 |
| schestowitz | And it's controlled by IBM et al | Sep 30 15:11 |
| JPerlow | as I said, cross vendor initiative. | Sep 30 15:12 |
| schestowitz | T'so is current CTO | Sep 30 15:12 |
| JPerlow | for what its worth I find moblin to be somewhat redundant. | Sep 30 15:12 |
| schestowitz | And it was Rex Marcus (or Rex Marcus) beforehand, i.e. Novell | Sep 30 15:12 |
| oiaohm | All items controls by the Linux foundation are open to everyone to use. | Sep 30 15:12 |
| JPerlow | it will either succeed or fail in the marketplace. | Sep 30 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Novell moderated panel discussion in linuxcon | Sep 30 15:12 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: it will succeed either way | Sep 30 15:13 |
| schestowitz | It's a breeding ground for Intel work | Sep 30 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Like fast boot | Sep 30 15:13 |
| schestowitz | So it'll help sell Intel chips | Sep 30 15:13 |
| oiaohm | http://moblin.org/projects | Sep 30 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Intel doesn't even know what DE it wants | Sep 30 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Moblin is a set of really interested project. | Sep 30 15:13 |
| schestowitz | GNOME, then Xfce... SUSE, Ubuntu, Fedora and back..... | Sep 30 15:13 |
| oiaohm | that are designed to intergrate into distrobutions. | Sep 30 15:14 |
| schestowitz | x86 | Sep 30 15:14 |
| oiaohm | So there is really no one thing called moblin | Sep 30 15:14 |
| JPerlow | in any case, I do have real work to do today, but I'll hang out on the channel. | Sep 30 15:14 |
| oiaohm | as an installed system. | Sep 30 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu Moblin Remix | Sep 30 15:14 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: thanks for stopping by, BTW | Sep 30 15:14 |
| oiaohm | There is the fedora, Suse and even a debian version. | Sep 30 15:14 |
| schestowitz | I'm not a foe and neither are you | Sep 30 15:14 |
| schestowitz | I was surprised by that dinosaur picture | Sep 30 15:14 |
| oiaohm | Moblin can also be used on normal PC hardware. | Sep 30 15:14 |
| schestowitz | I think your post would have been better off without it | Sep 30 15:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @ThistleWeb Also: how can the judge, ruling for #Microsoft vacate a juries verdict and dictate his own in its place? http://ur1.ca/covt | Sep 30 15:15 | |
| JPerlow | I liked the dino picture. | Sep 30 15:15 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Sep 30 15:15 |
| schestowitz | Well, it creates misconceptions | Sep 30 15:15 |
| JPerlow | I had it commissioned for the piece. | Sep 30 15:15 |
| schestowitz | It's also face modifications | Sep 30 15:15 |
| JPerlow | I thought it was quite clear. | Sep 30 15:15 |
| schestowitz | I never modify faces cause people hate that. I had bubbles and stuff. | Sep 30 15:16 |
| JPerlow | I asked for a picutre of stallman as a dinosaur. | Sep 30 15:16 |
| schestowitz | *add speech bubbles | Sep 30 15:16 |
| JPerlow | with a meteor streaking over his head. | Sep 30 15:16 |
| schestowitz | He's progressive | Sep 30 15:16 |
| JPerlow | people are asking for it on t-shirts. | Sep 30 15:16 |
| JPerlow | I might do a whole cafepress store with these things. | Sep 30 15:16 |
| schestowitz | He doesn't cling on to spying technology like cellphones | Sep 30 15:16 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Sep 30 15:16 |
| schestowitz | With income passed to the FSF :-) | Sep 30 15:17 |
| JPerlow | if you were annoyed by that picture you should see the one of steve jobs. | Sep 30 15:17 |
| schestowitz | I think I know it | Sep 30 15:17 |
| schestowitz | The one you used before | Sep 30 15:17 |
| schestowitz | A lemon-face | Sep 30 15:17 |
| oiaohm | Fun bit for MS I wonder how MS will react with DRI2 framework get threw. | Sep 30 15:17 |
| oiaohm | Ie normall X11 and moblin sharing the same screen. | Sep 30 15:17 |
| JPerlow | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=10209 | Sep 30 15:18 |
| oiaohm | MS wants to divide and conquer Linux. | Sep 30 15:18 |
| JPerlow | I asked for a caricature of steve jobs and thats what I got. | Sep 30 15:18 |
| JPerlow | my younger brother does all my special case artwork. | Sep 30 15:18 |
| JPerlow | he's a hollywood CGI artist. | Sep 30 15:19 |
| schestowitz | How about a Miguel caricature? | Sep 30 15:19 |
| oiaohm | Don't take that to a Linux conf JPerlow | Sep 30 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Miguel is sort of stuck with the direction he chose now | Sep 30 15:19 |
| schestowitz | He can't get out | Sep 30 15:19 |
| oiaohm | You will be dead JPerlow | Sep 30 15:19 |
| JPerlow | oiaohm: I'm tempted to wear it to a linux conference. | Sep 30 15:19 |
| oiaohm | One of the highest constrations of apple laptops I see is at a Linux conf. | Sep 30 15:19 |
| JPerlow | I respect miguel. | Sep 30 15:19 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: what program does he use? | Sep 30 15:19 |
| oiaohm | highest numbers of apple laptops | Sep 30 15:20 |
| JPerlow | for 2D or 3D? | Sep 30 15:20 |
| JPerlow | for 3D he uses maya. | Sep 30 15:20 |
| JPerlow | for 2D he uses photoshop and zbrush. | Sep 30 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Miguel is Ok | Sep 30 15:20 |
| schestowitz | But his more recent work is bad | Sep 30 15:20 |
| oiaohm | Ok look up who stuffed up porting evolution to windows in 2000 JPerlow | Sep 30 15:20 |
| schestowitz | And ESPECIALLY after the 2006 deal | Sep 30 15:20 |
| schestowitz | He knows it | Sep 30 15:20 |
| trmanco | http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/info-fsf/2009-09/msg00003.html | Sep 30 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Look up IDG's article from Mix 2007 | Sep 30 15:20 |
| oiaohm | Miguel has promissed a lot of things over time. | Sep 30 15:21 |
| oiaohm | and not kept them. | Sep 30 15:21 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: it's in the FSF site | Sep 30 15:21 |
| schestowitz | I posted this a few hours ago in here | Sep 30 15:21 |
| oiaohm | I have got to the point with Miguel trust when you have results with Miguel | Sep 30 15:21 |
| trmanco | I haven't read my feeds yet | Sep 30 15:21 |
| JPerlow | Novell has limited resources. | Sep 30 15:21 |
| oiaohm | Note I have been dealing with Miguel since 1995 JPerlow | Sep 30 15:21 |
| JPerlow | personally, I would rather see miguel at a company which can give him free access to a large amount of resources to do the work he wants to do. | Sep 30 15:22 |
| oiaohm | He had that JPerlow | Sep 30 15:22 |
| JPerlow | Had? | Sep 30 15:22 |
| JPerlow | where? | Sep 30 15:22 |
| oiaohm | and he still would promise and not deliver. | Sep 30 15:22 |
| schestowitz | Ximian | Sep 30 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Before the company he was in got taken up by novell JPerlow | Sep 30 15:22 |
| JPerlow | Ximian? | Sep 30 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Yep Ximain | Sep 30 15:22 |
| JPerlow | Ximian was a startup. | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | He brought the folks to Novell | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | Nat | Sep 30 15:23 |
| JPerlow | a very small startup. | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | Net leads the desktop | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | Yes, a Microsoft empoyee decides on Linux desktop at Novell | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | And Canonical has similar issues | Sep 30 15:23 |
| JPerlow | oh here we go with the religion again. | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | /NetNat/ | Sep 30 15:23 |
| schestowitz | /s/Net/Nat/ | Sep 30 15:23 |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: he had full freedoms at Ximian | Sep 30 15:23 |
| JPerlow | yeah, and it was a START UP | Sep 30 15:24 |
| JPerlow | that means no capital | Sep 30 15:24 |
| oiaohm | When he was at Ximiam me and him had out first fight that lead to the create of the freedesktop project. | Sep 30 15:24 |
| oiaohm | He was argueing that wm could not use a common storage format for start menu applications because it would effect performance. | Sep 30 15:25 |
| oiaohm | yes a completely stupid arguement. | Sep 30 15:25 |
| oiaohm | His defensive arguements have not got any better when it comes to avoiding having to do work. | Sep 30 15:25 |
| JPerlow | programmers are passionate people | Sep 30 15:26 |
| oiaohm | Every time Miguel puts up a stupid argument its normally him trying to go the lazy path. | Sep 30 15:26 |
| JPerlow | and there isnt only one good way to do things | Sep 30 15:26 |
| schestowitz | At Microsoft there is | Sep 30 15:26 |
| oiaohm | but there are sure 100 percent bad way of doing things. JPerlow | Sep 30 15:26 |
| oiaohm | Like every wm having different menu systems so you cannot find applications. | Sep 30 15:26 |
| oiaohm | So poor user suffers. | Sep 30 15:27 |
| fewa | yep pretty obvious | Sep 30 15:27 |
| *ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 30 15:27 | |
| fewa | standards are vastly more important than performance | Sep 30 15:27 |
| JPerlow | at the moment I find gnome to be inconsistent in terms of the way it does things | Sep 30 15:27 |
| JPerlow | and KDE 4.x unfortunately unstable | Sep 30 15:27 |
| fewa | esp when its not even a real performance issue | Sep 30 15:27 |
| oiaohm | Try JPerlow KDE 4.3 you have not by that comment. | Sep 30 15:27 |
| oiaohm | 4.3 is very much stable JPerlow | Sep 30 15:27 |
| JPerlow | so I'd pick inconsistent over unstable at the present | Sep 30 15:28 |
| oiaohm | KDE just took a while to settle in. | Sep 30 15:28 |
| JPerlow | oiaohm: when I install the next milestone of openSUSE I'll have a look at it. | Sep 30 15:28 |
| oiaohm | As is normal after a huge change. | Sep 30 15:28 |
| oiaohm | I stayed with KDE 3.5 for a long time. | Sep 30 15:28 |
| oiaohm | Until the stabliseation state of KDE 4.x complete. | Sep 30 15:29 |
| JPerlow | I run a lot of systems in my lab | Sep 30 15:29 |
| JPerlow | I look at all the distributions. | Sep 30 15:29 |
| JPerlow | my main linux desktop is centos | Sep 30 15:29 |
| fewa | wow | Sep 30 15:29 |
| JPerlow | but thats just for running admin tools and such. | Sep 30 15:29 |
| oiaohm | With Miguel JPerlow always remember he is developer first user second. Always has been. | Sep 30 15:29 |
| fewa | your in the dark ages | Sep 30 15:30 |
| JPerlow | I also use windows 7. | Sep 30 15:30 |
| oiaohm | Ie he thinks of users second. | Sep 30 15:30 |
| fewa | more dark ages | Sep 30 15:30 |
| JPerlow | in VMs, I have quite a few other distros. | Sep 30 15:30 |
| schestowitz | CentOS dude just cites BN: http://dag.wieers.com/blog/why-wouldnt-you-want-a-microsoft-party-in-your-livingroom | Sep 30 15:30 |
| oiaohm | So people like me look at Miguel with distrust because we know better than trust. | Sep 30 15:30 |
| JPerlow | I love dag wieers. | Sep 30 15:30 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: try 4.3 | Sep 30 15:31 |
| schestowitz | It's a great KDE release | Sep 30 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Linus I trust. | Sep 30 15:31 |
| JPerlow | schestowitz: I'll look at it on Kubuntu 9.10 and opensuse 10.2 | Sep 30 15:31 |
| JPerlow | right now I have too many other things going on | Sep 30 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Kubuntu is mangled KDE. | Sep 30 15:31 |
| trmanco | wow | Sep 30 15:32 |
| trmanco | Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 33554432 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 19954280 bytes) in /home/trmanco/public_html/phirce/Class.phIRCe.php on line 402 | Sep 30 15:32 |
| trmanco | somebody crashed my bot | Sep 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: I've used Kubuntu 9.10 for several weeks | Sep 30 15:32 |
| oiaohm | I am using debian sid 4.3 | Sep 30 15:32 |
| schestowitz | I trust it enough to run it as the main environment, as alpha | Sep 30 15:32 |
| oiaohm | Ok normally scare diving. | Sep 30 15:32 |
| oiaohm | but it working fine. | Sep 30 15:32 |
| JPerlow | schestowitz: you're a college student. | Sep 30 15:33 |
| fewa | schestowitz, that video is hilarious | Sep 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: No. | Sep 30 15:33 |
| JPerlow | I have different needs. | Sep 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | I finished all my actual work like 3 years ago | Sep 30 15:33 |
| fewa | Microsoft: "our users are sheep" | Sep 30 15:33 |
| JPerlow | so what exactly do you do now? | Sep 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | I hang around here and do what I do | Sep 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: like I wrote, I know you do mixed envs for companies | Sep 30 15:33 |
| schestowitz | So your use of Windows is acceptable | Sep 30 15:34 |
| schestowitz | It's PJ who used it against you | Sep 30 15:34 |
| JPerlow | used it against? | Sep 30 15:34 |
| JPerlow | lol. | Sep 30 15:34 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 30 15:34 |
| schestowitz | Did you not see? | Sep 30 15:34 |
| JPerlow | PJ and I correspond a great deal. | Sep 30 15:34 |
| schestowitz | She used your Hess-type blog against you | Sep 30 15:34 |
| JPerlow | she is entitled to whatever opinions she has. | Sep 30 15:34 |
| JPerlow | we belong to shared professional groups. | Sep 30 15:34 |
| schestowitz | See where she talks about your item on why you must use WIndows | Sep 30 15:35 |
| JPerlow | and we've even used each other for assistance on various matters. | Sep 30 15:35 |
| schestowitz | Everyone does | Sep 30 15:35 |
| oiaohm | Reports code of conduct schestowitz | Sep 30 15:35 |
| *phIRCe (n=b0t@85.241.225.212) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 15:35 | |
| schestowitz | Sometimes people speak publicly and sometimes not | Sep 30 15:35 |
| schestowitz | With Twitter and stuff it gets easier and more transparent | Sep 30 15:35 |
| JPerlow | unfortunately, that peice of writing is one of the most incomprehensible screeds I've ever seen. | Sep 30 15:35 |
| JPerlow | its quite inconsistent with her regular work. | Sep 30 15:36 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: mashup | Sep 30 15:36 |
| trmanco | the pdf crashed my bot | Sep 30 15:36 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: not really | Sep 30 15:36 |
| JPerlow | I don't know how to respond to something like that, because it had very little to do with the main point of my article. | Sep 30 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Since SCO was down and OOXML scandals were over she was all over the place | Sep 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Copyright, Google, Wolfram, Psystar... | Sep 30 15:37 |
| JPerlow | I would trust Pam to read a legal brief and analyze litigation issues. | Sep 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | And only about one article/day | Sep 30 15:37 |
| JPerlow | she has very little understanding of technology. | Sep 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Less than 500/yar | Sep 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: not true | Sep 30 15:37 |
| oiaohm | The SCO case kinda weakend PAM general reporting. | Sep 30 15:37 |
| JPerlow | well, she has never worked in IT. | Sep 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Not based on what I know | Sep 30 15:37 |
| schestowitz | I never worked in law | Sep 30 15:38 |
| JPerlow | So you're not qualified to write about it :) | Sep 30 15:38 |
| schestowitz | We go on gut feeling in some fields that she does not | Sep 30 15:38 |
| oiaohm | You never have to work in IT to write correctly from user point of view JPerlow | Sep 30 15:38 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: true | Sep 30 15:38 |
| trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Sep 30 15:38 |
| schestowitz | On legal issues I'd rather quote someone like Piana | Sep 30 15:38 |
| *phIRCe has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 30 15:38 | |
| *phIRCe (n=b0t@85.241.225.212) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 15:39 | |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: Scoble was deeply insulted when I wrote he doesn't get technology | Sep 30 15:39 |
| trmanco | http://ur1.ca/cous | Sep 30 15:39 |
| oiaohm | The idea that a person has to work in IT to write about it is wrong. | Sep 30 15:39 |
| JPerlow | oiaohm: I disagree. | Sep 30 15:39 |
| schestowitz | There are many popular bloggers who just make it interesting and different | Sep 30 15:39 |
| trmanco | oops | Sep 30 15:39 |
| trmanco | it gonna crash again | Sep 30 15:39 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the write ups from non IT people on what works and what does not are more useful. | Sep 30 15:39 |
| oiaohm | To open source developers. | Sep 30 15:39 |
| schestowitz | Lessig isn't a techie either | Sep 30 15:40 |
| oiaohm | What is not useful is when people don't say what works. | Sep 30 15:40 |
| schestowitz | He's a good academic and law person though | Sep 30 15:40 |
| JPerlow | lessig is a litigation professional with a concentration on technology law. | Sep 30 15:40 |
| fewa | schestowitz, agreed | Sep 30 15:40 |
| fewa | copyright, not technology | Sep 30 15:40 |
| fewa | these are differn't | Sep 30 15:40 |
| JPerlow | fewa: frequently the same thing | Sep 30 15:40 |
| oiaohm | For open source people we don't need more tech writing reports. | Sep 30 15:40 |
| schestowitz | He uses a Mac to do his presentation stuff and he groks law, but he won't be talking about Linux | Sep 30 15:40 |
| fewa | copyright in the age of the internet | Sep 30 15:41 |
| schestowitz | He also played down RMS' work | Sep 30 15:41 |
| oiaohm | We have enough of the in developers doing it JPerlow | Sep 30 15:41 |
| vcent | oimohm writing about things that work is not news, | Sep 30 15:41 |
| JPerlow | computer litigation is frequently over copyright | Sep 30 15:41 |
| schestowitz | Decades later he admitted he was wrong, publicly | Sep 30 15:41 |
| fewa | the consequences of technology, instead of the technology itsself | Sep 30 15:41 |
| fewa | very differn't things JPerlow | Sep 30 15:41 |
| JPerlow | oiaohm: I consider a developer someone who works in IT. | Sep 30 15:41 |
| oiaohm | Part of news is reviews vcent | Sep 30 15:41 |
| JPerlow | not all developers are IT professionals, however. | Sep 30 15:41 |
| oiaohm | If a product is worth while. | Sep 30 15:41 |
| vcent | then it's a review | Sep 30 15:41 |
| fewa | and its really just a form of return to pre mass-media culture | Sep 30 15:42 |
| fewa | but now it can occur in a much more rapid pace | Sep 30 15:42 |
| JPerlow | well I really must get to work. But as I said, I'll leave the channel open. | Sep 30 15:42 |
| oiaohm | You see a lot of news can be reported positive or negitive without reviewing what you are talking about you report it wrong vcent | Sep 30 15:42 |
| oiaohm | Like reporting a murder as positive would be wrong. | Sep 30 15:43 |
| vcent | thats right, thats the difference between reporting and reviewing. | Sep 30 15:43 |
| oiaohm | And reporting someone killing an attacker as neigtive would be bad. | Sep 30 15:43 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 15:43 | |
| fewa | "Evildoer shot by peace-keeper today" | Sep 30 15:43 |
| vcent | review is opinion reporting is factual or should be | Sep 30 15:43 |
| fewa | "Recent hit victory for war on terror!" | Sep 30 15:44 |
| oiaohm | How to report the factual. | Sep 30 15:44 |
| oiaohm | Is bent by your own point of view vcent | Sep 30 15:44 |
| trmanco | http://www.xitimonitor.com/en-us/search-engine-barometer/search-engine-barometer-august-2009/index-1-2-6-177.html?xtor=11 | Sep 30 15:44 |
| oiaohm | People working in IT have a bad habit of being bias one way or the other. | Sep 30 15:44 |
| fewa | "'Newly dead not terrorized', says Pentagon spokesman" | Sep 30 15:44 |
| vcent | wheras factual reporting is just the facts not your opinion, | Sep 30 15:44 |
| vcent | like a man was killed by a car today, is a fact. | Sep 30 15:45 |
| vcent | "he was probably speeding" is opinion | Sep 30 15:45 |
| fewa | vcent, there is no way to report facts without opinion | Sep 30 15:45 |
| vcent | journalism 101 | Sep 30 15:45 |
| fewa | vcent, each inclusion is an opinion that one fact is more important than another | Sep 30 15:45 |
| oiaohm | Very rare reports are that cut and dried vcent | Sep 30 15:45 |
| oiaohm | Lot based on opinion has to be reported with positive or neightive contexts. | Sep 30 15:46 |
| fewa | Why does the media report everyday on the DJIA, which only measures the wealth of the very biggest companies? | Sep 30 15:47 |
| vcent | well yea, bad things generally negative, good things generally positive. | Sep 30 15:47 |
| oiaohm | In it word somethings are grey vcent | Sep 30 15:47 |
| vcent | yes | Sep 30 15:47 |
| fewa | why not the unemployment numbers? new jobless? number of foreclosures? number of bankruptcies? | Sep 30 15:47 |
| vcent | except the real facts | Sep 30 15:47 |
| oiaohm | positive or negitive depend on point of view. | Sep 30 15:47 |
| fewa | median income trends? | Sep 30 15:47 |
| fewa | these are all facts | Sep 30 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Even the real facts. | Sep 30 15:48 |
| fewa | but simply by giving some facts more weight you express bias | Sep 30 15:48 |
| oiaohm | MS killed a department. Is that good or bad. | Sep 30 15:48 |
| vcent | no by definition, a fact is a fact, sorry. | Sep 30 15:48 |
| fewa | vcent, wrong | Sep 30 15:48 |
| vcent | ok | Sep 30 15:48 |
| oiaohm | reporting has to be done with context. | Sep 30 15:48 |
| vcent | reporting can be wrong, but the fact of what REALLY happend, REALLY happend. | Sep 30 15:49 |
| vcent | if you cant get that I give up. | Sep 30 15:49 |
| oiaohm | Not always. | Sep 30 15:49 |
| vcent | sure. | Sep 30 15:49 |
| oiaohm | Really happend X shot Y | Sep 30 15:49 |
| vcent | schrodengers cat mabey, | Sep 30 15:49 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBkS1pvE2EY | Sep 30 15:50 | |
| oiaohm | One report has X has a saint because Y was classed as bad. | Sep 30 15:50 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - The Plan For Iran .::. Size~: 108.41 KB | Sep 30 15:50 |
| oiaohm | Then the report from the other side has it inverted vcent | Sep 30 15:50 |
| vcent | key word "REPORT". | Sep 30 15:50 |
| oiaohm | All due to bias. | Sep 30 15:50 |
| oiaohm | Very rare is reporting not bias. | Sep 30 15:50 |
| fewa | vcent, case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfwSByIo4ks | Sep 30 15:50 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Daily Show's Karl Rove Moment of Zen Completely Sums Him Up? .::. Size~: 163.32 KB | Sep 30 15:50 |
| vcent | I know reporting is bias. | Sep 30 15:51 |
| oiaohm | Because if you have no bias its boring vcent | Sep 30 15:51 |
| fewa | vcent, watch it | Sep 30 15:51 |
| vcent | no thanks | Sep 30 15:51 |
| fewa | its pretty good, i recommend it to anyone | Sep 30 15:51 |
| oiaohm | Part of good reporting is reviewing to make sure you have your biases the right way. | Sep 30 15:51 |
| fewa | If vcent decides he to not be part of this discussion | Sep 30 15:52 |
| vcent | I agree reporting is biased, what more do you want ? | Sep 30 15:52 |
| vcent | that is not what I was saying. | Sep 30 15:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @deepakurup: RT @mjasay A survey indicates that 96% of French public sector agencies use open source http://bit.ly/dDb6i - many enjoy Alf | Sep 30 15:53 | |
| phIRCe | Title: FR: "Almost entire public sector is using open source' — .::. Size~: 27.24 KB | Sep 30 15:53 |
| fewa | schestowitz, great example of how facts can be quite biased (and deceptive) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfwSByIo4ks | Sep 30 15:53 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Daily Show's Karl Rove Moment of Zen Completely Sums Him Up? .::. Size~: 163.32 KB | Sep 30 15:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Does anybody have a Google Wave invite to send me? Please! | Sep 30 15:54 | |
| trmanco | google wave is a trend on twitter | Sep 30 15:54 |
| oiaohm | vcent that video shows that even 100 percent fact can misslead and be bias. | Sep 30 15:55 |
| oiaohm | The art of miss leading is leaving out points. | Sep 30 15:55 |
| vcent | I know it can allready, I said I agree on that point, | Sep 30 15:55 |
| oiaohm | I know reporters get taugh there is such thing as non bias reporting. It is a rare thing for a person to pull off. | Sep 30 15:56 |
| trmanco | 2000 more results since you started searching. Refresh to see them. | Sep 30 15:57 |
| trmanco | :O | Sep 30 15:57 |
| vcent | thats why we got brains, and an ability to understand not everything you see or hear is the truth. | Sep 30 15:58 |
| oiaohm | One of the biggest causes of reporter miss leading there readers is not doing there back ground history on who they are talking to. | Sep 30 15:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @ragsagar: PLUS meeting on Oct 2nd Friday 11:00 am at Mission School. http://plus.sarovar.org/ | Sep 30 16:05 | |
| phIRCe | Title: PLUS - Palakkad Libre Software Users Society .::. Size~: 8.29 KB | Sep 30 16:05 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 30 16:08 | |
| Diablo-D3 | hmm | Sep 30 16:15 |
| *Diablo-D3 wishes SHA3 would hurry up | Sep 30 16:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Retreats From New Policy as the Company Loses Sense of Faithfulness http://bit.ly/aivT4 | Sep 30 16:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @drbekbal: Boat tragedy TVM Control room no 0471 2333198 . Place of tragedy Manakavala | Sep 30 16:17 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Novell Retreats From New Policy as the Company Loses Sense of Faithfulness | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.31 KB | Sep 30 16:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @drbekbal: 26th confirmed death mostly from Karnataka, one from Calcutta and two foreigners | Sep 30 16:18 | |
| trmanco | http://cgi.ebay.com/Google-Wave-Invite_W0QQitemZ180413798949QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Software?hash=item2a01801a25&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 | Sep 30 16:20 |
| trmanco | this is madness | Sep 30 16:20 |
| phIRCe | Title: Google Wave Invite - eBay (item 180413798949 end time Oct-02-09 19:33:40 PDT) .::. Size~: 66.65 KB | Sep 30 16:20 |
| trmanco | US $4,050.00 | Sep 30 16:20 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: someone just mailed me calling you a shill | Sep 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Sep 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | -quote- | Sep 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | Why did Sharp abandon the Zaurus Linux PDA ? | Sep 30 16:21 |
| schestowitz | ot: See this shill trash Stallman. It's curious that he once worked on | Sep 30 16:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @aidanskinner http://bit.ly/g2izT <-- peanuts by bukowski (this is brilliant) | Sep 30 16:22 | |
| schestowitz | the Sharp_Zaurus http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?page_id=100 | Sep 30 16:22 |
| phIRCe | Title: Peanuts, by Charles Bukowski .::. Size~: 2.17 KB | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | -unquote- | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | -quote- | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | >From Wikipedia: It says Sharp, droped the product while it was still | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | popular, refuse to sell it directly in the UE/US market, and | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | ultimately replace it with WinCE ? | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | "The Zaurus had many things going for it, but it failed miserably in | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | the US and European consumer market" | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.zatz.com/authors/authorpages/jasonperlow.html | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | This is the exact opposite of that really happened. SL series was ever | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | only sold in Japan and third party companies were responciple for | Sep 30 16:22 |
| trmanco | US $5,100.00 | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | importing them to EU. | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | -unquote- | Sep 30 16:22 |
| schestowitz | -quote- | Sep 30 16:23 |
| fewa | up $1k already? | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Zaurus | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | ------- | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | See this self serving BS straight from the horses mouth as to why the | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Sharp Zaurus and as to how the WinCE is better than the Palm. | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | "The highly protective, secretive nature of a Japanese consumer | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | electronics firm just didn't translate well over to the free-wheeling, | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | bohemian mindset of the Open Source and Linux developers" | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | -unquote- | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | -quote- | Sep 30 16:23 |
| fewa | at 2 days 11 hours left it will then get really high.... | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computingunplugged.com/issues/issue200602/00001725001.html | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | ---- | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | We know what effort was spent keeping TRON (the real time OS) out of | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | the US. MS 'partnered' with the consortium and - guess what - it went | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | nowhere ... | Sep 30 16:23 |
| phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | -unquote- END. | Sep 30 16:23 |
| phIRCe | Title: Sharp Zaurus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 68.78 KB | Sep 30 16:23 |
| phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Rest omitted | Sep 30 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Wave it away | Sep 30 16:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @MSF_access: OFFICIAL LAUNCH_Patent PooL_We need cheaper and better drugs for patients living with HIV/AIDS http://bit.ly/INbiU | Sep 30 16:25 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Make it Happen - Help us Push for the Pool .::. Size~: 15.97 KB | Sep 30 16:25 |
| schestowitz | That's how it works when critics of Mono or RMS appear | Sep 30 16:25 |
| schestowitz | First they do background back for ad hominem | Sep 30 16:25 |
| zoobab | ls | Sep 30 16:27 |
| JPerlow | thats an article I havent seen on my screen in a while | Sep 30 16:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @MSF_access #Patent Pool for access to HIV/AIDS drugs http://ur1.ca/cp2i If not then fallow Brazil lead and manufacture generics? | Sep 30 16:30 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Make it Happen - Help us Push for the Pool .::. Size~: 15.97 KB | Sep 30 16:30 |
| JPerlow | schestowitz: many people have emailed me calling you a complete lunatic, but whats a few shills and lunatics between friends? | Sep 30 16:36 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Sep 30 16:36 |
| schestowitz | They need to manufacture some libel | Sep 30 16:37 |
| JPerlow | the zaurus was pulled from the US because it got horrible reviews in the mainstream press | Sep 30 16:37 |
| JPerlow | I worked with the sales team who desparately tried to keep it here. | Sep 30 16:37 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz uses a zaurus | Sep 30 16:38 |
| JPerlow | mossberg ripped it apart, as did many other reviewers | Sep 30 16:38 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if Sharp will bring that new Ubuntu gadgets, well... to anywhere 'xept Japan | Sep 30 16:38 |
| JPerlow | from a technology perspective it was a very advanced handheld | Sep 30 16:38 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: Ha! | Sep 30 16:38 |
| schestowitz | I was just going to emntion Moosberg | Sep 30 16:38 |
| schestowitz | *Mossberg | Sep 30 16:38 |
| schestowitz | When you said "bad reviews" | Sep 30 16:38 |
| schestowitz | We have some E-mails from Mossberg to BillG | Sep 30 16:38 |
| JPerlow | it was before its time, and the japanese didnt understand how to manage an open source community or 3rd party developers | Sep 30 16:38 |
| JPerlow | the retailers wouldnt carry it either | Sep 30 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Maybe fear? | Sep 30 16:39 |
| JPerlow | the biggest success it had was in vertical markets | Sep 30 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Like Wal-Mart and the Microsoft 'taskforce' there (against Linux) | Sep 30 16:39 |
| JPerlow | I mean it had bad reviews because it didnt work. | Sep 30 16:40 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/27/bias-in-wall-street-journal/ | Sep 30 16:40 |
| JPerlow | not for the people who wanted them most. | Sep 30 16:40 |
| JPerlow | as a PDA organizer it was horrendous. | Sep 30 16:40 |
| phIRCe | Title: Walt Mossberg and Bill Gates Know Each Other Well | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 131.71 KB | Sep 30 16:40 |
| JPerlow | as a handheld computer it was excellent. | Sep 30 16:40 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: I quite liked it when I saw friends using it | Sep 30 16:40 |
| fewa | Microsoft is not virtical | Sep 30 16:40 |
| schestowitz | Maybe a marketing issue? | Sep 30 16:40 |
| fewa | its horizontal | Sep 30 16:40 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/22/microsoft-taskforce-vs-walmart-linux/ <- Microsoft pressures stores to drop Linux (smoking gun) | Sep 30 16:41 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Antitrust: “The Linux Threat on the Desktop” (2006) and Predatory Response | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 174.48 KB | Sep 30 16:41 |
| JPerlow | they didnt market it well and the japanese were extremely restrictive what could be done with the ROMs, plus the developer toolkit was outrageously expensive | Sep 30 16:41 |
| JPerlow | other than that, great peice of electronics. :) | Sep 30 16:42 |
| schestowitz | Maybe products that begin with a Z are bound to fail | Sep 30 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has the same problem | Sep 30 16:44 |
| JPerlow | beats me, I like the letter Z | Sep 30 16:45 |
| fewa | hmm, interesting challenge | Sep 30 16:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ~100 #Novell Employees to Work for #Xerox http://bit.ly/keU6J | Sep 30 16:48 | |
| schestowitz | Zoooon. | Sep 30 16:48 |
| phIRCe | Title: ~100 Novell Employees to Work for Xerox | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.16 KB | Sep 30 16:48 |
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| trmanco | http://www.engrish.com//wp-content/uploads/2009/10/nokia-connocting-poopie.jpg | Sep 30 17:04 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 30 17:04 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: they mispelled Nokia? | Sep 30 17:05 |
| trmanco | I dunno | Sep 30 17:06 |
| schestowitz | BN server is SOOOOOOOOO slow | Sep 30 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Not sure what's occupying it. I used to be able to check more quickly | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | load average: 10.33, 5.89, 4.77 | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | ID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S PU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 1562 mysql 15 0 808m 96m 3208 S 155.5 6.3 19981:33 mysqld | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13038 apache 16 0 257m 42m 4612 S 0.0 2.8 0:07.90 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13627 apache 16 0 255m 42m 3568 S 3.3 2.7 0:02.90 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13068 apache 16 0 256m 42m 4460 S 0.0 2.7 0:13.55 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
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| schestowitz | 12997 apache 15 0 256m 41m 4508 S 0.0 2.7 0:06.70 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 12322 apache 15 0 256m 41m 4608 S 0.0 2.7 0:11.09 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13069 apache 15 0 256m 41m 4152 S 0.0 2.7 0:11.10 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13157 apache 16 0 256m 41m 4496 S 0.0 2.7 0:05.50 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13890 apache 16 0 256m 41m 4180 S 0.0 2.7 0:02.58 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13557 apache 16 0 254m 40m 3460 S 0.0 2.6 0:02.85 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13582 apache 15 0 255m 40m 4260 S 0.0 2.6 0:05.89 httpd | Sep 30 17:07 |
| schestowitz | 13988 apache 16 0 254m 40m 3380 R 5.0 2.6 0:01.69 httpd | Sep 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | 13983 apache 15 0 252m 38m 3540 S 0.0 2.5 0:02.21 httpd | Sep 30 17:08 |
| schestowitz | 13967 apache 16 0 252m 38m 3332 R 18.9 2.5 0:02.11 httpd | Sep 30 17:08 |
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| schestowitz | about/csharp/regular/smellyhippy)? | Sep 30 17:12 |
| smellyhippy | aye | Sep 30 17:13 |
| schestowitz | It does not smell right | Sep 30 17:13 |
| smellyhippy | no it smells up :) | Sep 30 17:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Blames #Vista7 for Another Delay http://bit.ly/TQJfT | Sep 30 17:19 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Blames Vista 7 for Another Delay | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.33 KB | Sep 30 17:19 |
| trmanco | mysql is really big | Sep 30 17:19 |
| *fewa has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Sep 30 17:24 | |
| schestowitz | I can't figure out what causes it | Sep 30 17:26 |
| schestowitz | I tailed the log and it seems like normal browser activity, no particular page | Sep 30 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Just a lot of traffic it seems (based on a live logview) | Sep 30 17:27 |
| schestowitz | We have visitors who use Macs :-S | Sep 30 17:28 |
| smellyhippy | I'd imagine you have a few vistors using windows too | Sep 30 17:28 |
| smellyhippy | if you're on about your site | Sep 30 17:28 |
| smellyhippy | heading home, cyall | Sep 30 17:29 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] HOW TO MAKE IT BIG IN ANY FIELD: 1. Be so good it's undeniable. 2. Dedicate 10,000 hours to getting that good. http://is.gd/3OZAO | Sep 30 17:40 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Chase Jarvis Blog: The Secret to Success in Photography .::. Size~: 161.16 KB | Sep 30 17:40 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I think it's the vauge transpotter in me that means I like watching chuggington with the kids :S | Sep 30 17:46 | |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4668653&tt=s | Sep 30 17:47 |
| phIRCe | Title: FARK.com: (4668653) Don't be a menace to south central while texting and driving and drinking your juice says LaHood .::. Size~: 76.99 KB | Sep 30 17:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | best fark headline ever | Sep 30 17:47 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @Info_Activism: Today's Mobile Case Study: Using @Ushahidi to document human rights abuses: http://bit.ly/U0Wxn | Sep 30 17:55 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Documenting human rights abuses | Mobiles in-a-Box .::. Size~: 12.07 KB | Sep 30 17:55 |
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| schestowitz | Absolute HOOD! | Sep 30 18:00 |
| *Joeh has quit () | Sep 30 18:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Cracks #SharePoint and #Office Lock-in, Microsoft Still Morbidly Obsessed with #GNU #Linux http://bit.ly/ZhguE | Sep 30 18:09 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Google Cracks SharePoint and Office Lock-in, Microsoft Still Morbidly Obsessed with GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.37 KB | Sep 30 18:09 |
| JPerlow | roy, maybe you're right, a clown might help | Sep 30 18:10 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/schestowitz | Sep 30 18:11 |
| schestowitz | "@mjasay Here is one example among many (and most of my posts) that mentions you positively. http://bit.ly/ZhguE " | Sep 30 18:11 |
| phIRCe | Title: Roy Schestowitz (schestowitz) on Twitter .::. Size~: 36.18 KB | Sep 30 18:11 |
| phIRCe | Title: Google Cracks SharePoint and Office Lock-in, Microsoft Still Morbidly Obsessed with GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.37 KB | Sep 30 18:11 |
| schestowitz | Asay is still upset that I sometimes criticise him | Sep 30 18:11 |
| schestowitz | He's like one of those people who ignore praise and only mock criticism | Sep 30 18:11 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: I do the post about you next :-p | Sep 30 18:12 |
| JPerlow | why postpone the inevitable | Sep 30 18:13 |
| JPerlow | by all means use a crazy graphic to go with it | Sep 30 18:14 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Internet ad spend bigger than television http://is.gd/3P46X | Sep 30 18:23 | |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Sep 30 18:29 | |
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| schestowitz | JPerlow: heh. | Sep 30 18:44 |
| schestowitz | You give me iedas now | Sep 30 18:44 |
| schestowitz | If There is a “Microsoft Hater” Label, Should There Also be an “Apple Hater” Label? | Sep 30 18:44 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/30/use-of-daemonising-labels/ | Sep 30 18:44 |
| phIRCe | Title: If There is a “Microsoft Hater” Label, Should There Also be an “Apple Hater” Label? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.57 KB | Sep 30 18:45 |
| JPerlow | although me showing up in your chat channel hardly counts as news. | Sep 30 18:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If There is a “Microsoft Hater” Label, Should There Also be an “Apple Hater” Label? http://bit.ly/eS47Y | Sep 30 18:45 | |
| schestowitz | Which is your favourite dinosaur? | Sep 30 18:45 |
| phIRCe | Title: If There is a “Microsoft Hater” Label, Should There Also be an “Apple Hater” Label? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.57 KB | Sep 30 18:45 |
| JPerlow | I like velociraptor. | Sep 30 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I could make something if you want. | Sep 30 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Sep 30 18:45 |
| JPerlow | he's sprightly. | Sep 30 18:45 |
| schestowitz | Let's see what I can find | Sep 30 18:45 |
| JPerlow | or should I say they. | Sep 30 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I need to find royalty-free ones | Sep 30 18:46 |
| JPerlow | the females were probably the pack hunters. | Sep 30 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Ah! | Sep 30 18:46 |
| schestowitz | Perfect. http://www.sxc.hu/photo/442605 | Sep 30 18:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: stock.xchng - Velociraptor in Park (stock photo by drsonline) .::. Size~: 21.46 KB | Sep 30 18:46 |
| schestowitz | This was the only result in Stock Xchange | Sep 30 18:46 |
| schestowitz | And it's royalty-free | Sep 30 18:46 |
| *schestowitz looks around http://www.google.com/images?hl=en-GB&q=perlow&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Sep 30 18:47 | |
| phIRCe | Title: perlow - Google Images .::. Size~: 40.82 KB | Sep 30 18:47 |
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| schestowitz | Is Sharon Perlow your wifey? http://www.elementsforwomen.com/perlowW.jpg | Sep 30 18:47 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 30 18:47 |
| JPerlow | nope. | Sep 30 18:47 |
| schestowitz | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/3787931/Microsoft-Please-Release-Windows-Server-as-a-Workstation.htm | Sep 30 18:48 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft, Please Release Windows Server as a Workstation — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 70.66 KB | Sep 30 18:48 |
| JPerlow | I certainly hope you don't intend to target my wife. | Sep 30 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Can I use http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/img/2008/12/jason-perlow.jpg ? | Sep 30 18:48 |
| JPerlow | by all means, you can attack me personally as much as you want. | Sep 30 18:48 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 30 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Please? | Sep 30 18:48 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: no, no attack | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | I didn't attack you either | Sep 30 18:49 |
| JPerlow | well, i don't own that photo. | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | I showed that people in Linux Today did | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | I actually defended you in that fist post | Sep 30 18:49 |
| JPerlow | my wife took it, but datamation used it. | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Hehe :-) | Sep 30 18:49 |
| JPerlow | for the whole two columns I wrote for them. | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Well, I was writing for Datamation roo | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | *too | Sep 30 18:49 |
| schestowitz | They put Microosft ads in Linux articles though | Sep 30 18:50 |
| JPerlow | they pay their bills. | Sep 30 18:50 |
| JPerlow | microsoft buys ad space everywhere. | Sep 30 18:52 |
| JPerlow | I don't know who turns them down. | Sep 30 18:52 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/perlow_velociraptor_in_park.jpg | Sep 30 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Done :-) | Sep 30 18:54 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 30 18:54 |
| schestowitz | In haste, with GIMP | Sep 30 18:54 |
| schestowitz | WHich... | Sep 30 18:54 |
| schestowitz | By the wau... | Sep 30 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Prepdates GNOME :-) :-) | Sep 30 18:54 |
| schestowitz | *Predates | Sep 30 18:54 |
| JPerlow | yes | Sep 30 18:54 |
| JPerlow | however it could be argued that without gnome, GTK+ would not nearly be so popular | Sep 30 18:54 |
| JPerlow | excellent graphic | Sep 30 18:55 |
| JPerlow | you're much better in gimp than I am | Sep 30 18:55 |
| JPerlow | I really wish there was a decent book on it | Sep 30 18:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @AnthonySteele "self-regulation bears the same relationship to regulation that self-importance does to importance." http://bit.ly/zHu6M | Sep 30 18:59 | |
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| schestowitz | JPerlow: you used to advocate OS/2 | Sep 30 19:04 |
| schestowitz | I once saw this in GOogle Groups | Sep 30 19:04 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: I never likes books cause you must use to learn GUIs | Sep 30 19:04 |
| schestowitz | My mother learned GUIs from books | Sep 30 19:05 |
| schestowitz | But it's a bad approach, IMHO | Sep 30 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Not good use of time | Sep 30 19:05 |
| schestowitz | There are GIMP tutorials | Sep 30 19:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | how do you learn a gui from a book? | Sep 30 19:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats like trying to learn how to drive by playing with a deck of cards | Sep 30 19:05 |
| JPerlow | some of us like having reference material. | Sep 30 19:06 |
| JPerlow | schestowitz: Yes, I was an OS/2 advocate in my early 20s. | Sep 30 19:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | if its not built into the software its quite useless imo | Sep 30 19:06 |
| JPerlow | mid 20's. | Sep 30 19:06 |
| JPerlow | diablo: gimp's docs are rather lacking | Sep 30 19:07 |
| JPerlow | it's built in docs, anyway | Sep 30 19:08 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. | Sep 30 19:21 |
| schestowitz | The Novell employees have started a little campaign against me in Twitter | Sep 30 19:21 |
| JPerlow | yes they don't like you very much. | Sep 30 19:21 |
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| JPerlow | I suspect that whatever hate campaign that they've spread about you pales in comparison to the number of times I've had to hit the "block" button in tweetdeck this week. | Sep 30 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Sep 30 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Well, don't take it hard | Sep 30 19:25 |
| schestowitz | SOme people never saw your history of posting, so they just yell, "SHILL!!" | Sep 30 19:25 |
| JPerlow | I live in New Jersey and grew up in Queens, New York. Abuse is a spectator sport. | Sep 30 19:25 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: it's funny to see where the attacks came from | Sep 30 19:26 |
| JPerlow | If I could use one hundred percent OSS, I would. The constraints of what I do for a living and some of the other technologies I use make that unrealistic. | Sep 30 19:26 |
| schestowitz | You'd _think_ they should be more tactful about associating themselves with an action against a critics, which only brings more attention to the site's message | Sep 30 19:27 |
| JPerlow | however, I am currently working on an article about the people who are candidates for one hundred percent OSS. | Sep 30 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, I'm almost done with that last post | Sep 30 19:27 |
| JPerlow | With the RMS peice I am absolutely comfortable with having a minority or even an unpouplar opinion from the position of Free Software. | Sep 30 19:28 |
| JPerlow | so I expect a large degree of displaced anger in return. | Sep 30 19:28 |
| tessier | hah....I was just reading a random blog entry and found this: http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/why-zsh-rocks/ | Sep 30 19:28 |
| phIRCe | Title: Why zsh rocks « SmSpillaz Blog .::. Size~: 22.98 KB | Sep 30 19:29 |
| tessier | Check out the note down at the bottom. | Sep 30 19:29 |
| schestowitz | I have to wonder if the Groklaw post triggered that supposed 'unveiling' of an attack site on us | Sep 30 19:29 |
| tessier | What groklaw post? | Sep 30 19:29 |
| JPerlow | what attack site? | Sep 30 19:29 |
| schestowitz | tessier: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090927151401988 | Sep 30 19:30 |
| phIRCe | Title: Groklaw - On Mono, Miguel, Stallman and Fusion with Microsoft .::. Size~: 168.27 KB | Sep 30 19:30 |
| schestowitz | Basically, Groklaw goes rambo on Mono | Sep 30 19:30 |
| tessier | Ah. Did it mention BN? I read that yesterday and didn't see any mention of BN | Sep 30 19:30 |
| schestowitz | And also speaks openly about de Icaza (expose) | Sep 30 19:30 |
| JPerlow | I guess Pam won't be sending me any more Christmas cards. | Sep 30 19:30 |
| schestowitz | tessier: no, it didn't | Sep 30 19:30 |
| schestowitz | That's separate | Sep 30 19:30 |
| tessier | So who is talking about an attack site? | Sep 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: Maybe Hunnukah cards? | Sep 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | Anyway... | Sep 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | She's not like that, unless you're marbux !! | Sep 30 19:31 |
| JPerlow | I honestly do think what Pam does is extremely valuable. | Sep 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | tessier: no, not attack | Sep 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | Just people trying to disredit me | Sep 30 19:31 |
| schestowitz | No actual attack | Sep 30 19:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Surprise! Aust gov't sells people out to Microsoft http://bit.ly/kJZvh | Sep 30 19:32 | |
| schestowitz | It broke out earlier... with Novell employees (*LOL*) adding their voice | Sep 30 19:32 |
| schestowitz | Usually they keep very, very quiet | Sep 30 19:32 |
| JPerlow | I'm not entirely pleased with the way development has gone on with SLE or openSUSE either | Sep 30 19:33 |
| JPerlow | but its for purely technical reasons. | Sep 30 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | That Aussie links is interesting | Sep 30 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Seems like a kickback-type thing | Sep 30 19:34 |
| schestowitz | "You rub my back, I rub yours" | Sep 30 19:34 |
| tessier | http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9clxw/microsoft_still_sabotages_linux_mbrs_in_vista_7/c0c9bht | Sep 30 19:34 |
| JPerlow | I happen to think mono is a valid technology and one that could be extremely popular, provided that micorosoft adds some guarantee that litigation will never ensue as a result of using it. | Sep 30 19:34 |
| phIRCe | Title: smspillaz comments on Microsoft Still Sabotages Linux MBRs in Vista 7 - Microsoft had resorted to nothing short of technical sabotage (bar the usual excuses) to make it painful if not impossible to run operating systems alongside Windows .::. Size~: 72.05 KB | Sep 30 19:34 |
| schestowitz | I think it can sometimes be called a collusion too, maybe not | Sep 30 19:34 |
| JPerlow | I think that given miguel's participation in codeplex that some sort of formal indemnification is probably in the works. | Sep 30 19:34 |
| JPerlow | I would also like to see codeplex become a cross-vendor organization. | Sep 30 19:35 |
| JPerlow | because that would give it some actual validity. | Sep 30 19:35 |
| schestowitz | tessier: Compiz is Novell | Sep 30 19:35 |
| schestowitz | smspillaz never liked me much | Sep 30 19:36 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: it has Novell and donetnuke | Sep 30 19:36 |
| schestowitz | It's like someone who signs a petition with the sig. of the wife and 5-y-o | Sep 30 19:36 |
| JPerlow | I mean much broader participation. | Sep 30 19:37 |
| JPerlow | technologies that do not include mono. | Sep 30 19:37 |
| JPerlow | frankly I have far more conerns over the OSS projects under Oracle's domain than microsoft's. | Sep 30 19:38 |
| JPerlow | Mono is the bird flu in terms of concern | Sep 30 19:38 |
| JPerlow | oracle is the swine flu. | Sep 30 19:38 |
| MinceR | who's this smspillaz idiot? | Sep 30 19:38 |
| MinceR | some novell drone? | Sep 30 19:38 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: I wouldn't worry about hold an unpremissible opinion. | Sep 30 19:39 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: Oracle has Java (probably will have) | Sep 30 19:40 |
| JPerlow | java, mysql, openoffice.org, a few other things | Sep 30 19:40 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] 500k jars (2 months supply) labeled Axle Grease Shit 2.0 in the warehouses. Whoops. http://is.gd/3Pbgt | Sep 30 19:43 | |
| phIRCe | Title: iSnack2.0 faces axe as Vegemite fans vent fury .::. Size~: 94.74 KB | Sep 30 19:43 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Sep 30 19:44 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Give your artist money. Encourage them to ask. http://bit.ly/iYIzO | Sep 30 19:49 | |
| phIRCe | Title: amanda fucking palmer » blog .::. Size~: 36.67 KB | Sep 30 19:49 |
| JPerlow | where is this content feed coming from? | Sep 30 19:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @picturecool God must use Bing #photo http://bit.ly/jpb3K | Sep 30 19:50 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Yfrog - photoshopn.jpg - Uploaded by joshuajcohen .::. Size~: 64.39 KB | Sep 30 19:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Groklaw Groks #Mono , #MigueldeIcaza, #Microsoft, and More http://bit.ly/YatWl | Sep 30 19:52 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Groklaw Groks Mono, Miguel de Icaza, Microsoft, and More | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.46 KB | Sep 30 19:52 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: it comes from Twitter | Sep 30 19:52 |
| schestowitz | I can add you :-) | Sep 30 19:52 |
| schestowitz | We added regular readers and contributors to it | Sep 30 19:52 |
| JPerlow | I hope you like food articls | Sep 30 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Seems like I have new fans. http://twitter.com/Elland_Road | Sep 30 19:54 |
| phIRCe | Title: Elland Road (Elland_Road) on Twitter .::. Size~: 14.13 KB | Sep 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Probably a sockpuppet of youknowho | Sep 30 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, let's see what's in the news :-) | Sep 30 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Boffins invent time telescope < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1556913/boffins-invent-telescope > | Sep 30 19:55 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-42-197.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 19:56 | |
| schestowitz | Firefox will not get a ribbon < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1556731/firefox-ribbon > | Sep 30 19:57 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: what do you think of the ribbons? You said you use Vista7. | Sep 30 19:57 |
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| JPerlow | I despise them | Sep 30 20:03 |
| JPerlow | I wrote an article about why I hate them | Sep 30 20:03 |
| JPerlow | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9373 | Sep 30 20:04 |
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| schestowitz | JPerlow: ah. That's why I remembered something. | Sep 30 20:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eben Moglen on SCO and the Legal Future of Free Software (2004) http://bit.ly/16ty6W | Sep 30 20:22 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Eben Moglen on SCO and the Legal Future of Free Software (2004) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.95 KB | Sep 30 20:22 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Sep 30 20:26 | |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8282468.stm | Sep 30 20:27 |
| phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.34 KB | Sep 30 20:27 |
| schestowitz | SOme of them think they can delete blog | Sep 30 20:28 |
| schestowitz | As Llilly found out, it doesn't work this way | Sep 30 20:28 |
| *smippy has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Sep 30 20:29 | |
| schestowitz | Is anyone joining Wave? | Sep 30 20:31 |
| trmanco | I need an invite | Sep 30 20:32 |
| schestowitz | There's a bug in lists.gnu.org's subscriptions. !fsf !gnu http://identi.ca/notice/11044333 | Sep 30 20:37 |
| phIRCe | Title: Oğuzhan Öğreden (ogreden) 's status on Wednesday, 30-Sep-09 13:13:49 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.32 KB | Sep 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: buy one | Sep 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz | $4000 | Sep 30 20:37 |
| trmanco | yeah right | Sep 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Sell the car or something | Sep 30 20:37 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 30 20:37 |
| schestowitz | To join Wave testers. *LOL* | Sep 30 20:37 |
| trmanco | I can get one for free | Sep 30 20:38 |
| JPerlow | man, when you have 16GB of ram on your workstation, you forget how many browser windows you have open | Sep 30 20:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.sorbaioli.org/2009/09/30/25-years-of-gnu-support-software-freedom/ | Sep 30 20:39 |
| phIRCe | Title: Graziano Sorbaioli » Blog Archive » 25 years of GNU support software freedom! .::. Size~: 27.15 KB | Sep 30 20:39 |
| Omar87 | Anyone here used the CLIPS system? | Sep 30 20:39 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: did you get ssd luv and leave the family (yet)? | Sep 30 20:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6IQ_FOCE6I | Sep 30 20:40 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Here Comes Another Bubble v1.1 - The Richter Scales .::. Size~: 123.24 KB | Sep 30 20:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.daniweb.com/news/story226546.html | Sep 30 20:44 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ballmer Won't Call Google by Name in Interview - Windows Vista and Windows 7 News Story .::. Size~: 33.52 KB | Sep 30 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | [03:39:50] <JPerlow> man, when you have 16GB of ram on your workstation, you forget how many browser windows you have open | Sep 30 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have 8 | Sep 30 20:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | firefox has about 150 tabs open across 12 windows | Sep 30 20:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | its currently using a little over 800 megs. | Sep 30 20:45 |
| JPerlow | schestowitz: I only have a few small SSDs. | Sep 30 20:45 |
| JPerlow | primarily for mysql databases. | Sep 30 20:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | so apparently I can have about 1500 tabs across 120 windows. | Sep 30 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmm.. weird | Sep 30 20:46 |
| schestowitz | BN serves me a different page than others | Sep 30 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Cached | Sep 30 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe it's browser cache | Sep 30 20:46 |
| JPerlow | a few larger capaicty SSDs would be nice | Sep 30 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: +swap | Sep 30 20:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats another 16 gigs. | Sep 30 20:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | (yes, I have 16 gigs of swap) | Sep 30 20:47 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: ssd makes boot fast | Sep 30 20:47 |
| schestowitz | See Ars technica boot chart | Sep 30 20:47 |
| schestowitz | I have 10gb swap | Sep 30 20:47 |
| JPerlow | I wrote a peice on it | Sep 30 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Why can't people leave the GIMP alone for its name? http://jakedth.tumblr.com/post/200516105/rename-gimp | Sep 30 20:50 |
| phIRCe | Title: Jacob Lludkrab's Personal Weblog. - Rename GIMP .::. Size~: 15.51 KB | Sep 30 20:50 |
| JPerlow | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9190 | Sep 30 20:50 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: why are the numbers so high? | Sep 30 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Does it autosave and make spare slugs? | Sep 30 20:51 |
| schestowitz | I've always wondered why ZDNet didn't upgrade WordPress to make informative URLs. It's s/w-compat with old-style URLs like the above | Sep 30 20:51 |
| JPerlow | I didn't build the thing | Sep 30 20:51 |
| schestowitz | CNET employed Mullenweg at one points | Sep 30 20:52 |
| schestowitz | For about a year, after he had quit college in Texas | Sep 30 20:52 |
| schestowitz | So he set them up with the blogs | Sep 30 20:52 |
| JPerlow | I like wordpress for blog sites for for large content sites, I dunno | Sep 30 20:52 |
| schestowitz | ZDNet does not use an old version | Sep 30 20:52 |
| schestowitz | <meta name="generator" content="WordPress 2.6.5" /> | Sep 30 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Yikes!!!! | Sep 30 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Tell ZDNet they can be 0wn3ed | Sep 30 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Unless it's LTS | Sep 30 20:53 |
| schestowitz | 2.0 was | Sep 30 20:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13448442 | Sep 30 20:56 |
| phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 302 Moved Temporarily .::. Size~: 0 KB | Sep 30 20:56 |
| schestowitz | "HP considers reorganization?" | Sep 30 20:57 |
| JPerlow | I thint they use wp-mt | Sep 30 20:57 |
| JPerlow | different codebase | Sep 30 20:57 |
| schestowitz | http://codeplex-mark.livejournal.com/552.html | Sep 30 20:58 |
| phIRCe | Title: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 2.02 KB | Sep 30 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Who is COdeplex Mark? | Sep 30 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Don Marti; "In practice, the GPL turns out to be "business friendly" because it _saves you an argument_. Actually making a company decision, especially a legal one, is expensive. If you use a non-copyleft license, _you_ have to decide what to do with the derivative work." | Sep 30 20:59 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: MU? | Sep 30 20:59 |
| schestowitz | "The 2.8.4a version of WordPress MU is now available for download' http://mu.wordpress.org/download/ | Sep 30 21:00 |
| phIRCe | Title: WordPress MU : Download .::. Size~: 5.94 KB | Sep 30 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Kept in sync with main branch | Sep 30 21:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/news/docview.rhtm/592098 | Sep 30 21:01 |
| phIRCe | Title: Bletchley Park News .::. Size~: 12.94 KB | Sep 30 21:01 |
| trmanco | !quit phIRCe | Sep 30 21:01 |
| *phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so!(http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/)") | Sep 30 21:01 | |
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| trmanco | http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13448442 | Sep 30 21:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: HP considers reorganization? - San Jose Mercury News .::. Size~: 60.72 KB | Sep 30 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Let's test trmanco's bot for Russian. | Sep 30 21:02 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bletchleypark.org.uk/news/docview.rhtm/592098 | Sep 30 21:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: Bletchley Park News .::. Size~: 12.94 KB | Sep 30 21:02 |
| schestowitz | http://news.ferra.ru/hard/2009/09/24/90957/ | Sep 30 21:02 |
| phIRCe | Title: IDF: ïåðñïåêòèâû Moblin è íåòáóê Dell Inspiron Mini 10v íà áàçå Ubuntu Moblin Remix - Ferra.ru .::. Size~: 33.05 KB | Sep 30 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Meh. | Sep 30 21:02 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 30 21:02 |
| MinceR | it's still a dell. | Sep 30 21:02 |
| trmanco | Encoding: windows-1251 | Sep 30 21:03 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnfol.com/090924/101,1587,6571720,00.shtml | Sep 30 21:03 |
| trmanco | I only use utf-8 | Sep 30 21:03 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Silverlight½«Ö§³ÖMoblin - IT - ÖнðÔÚÏß .::. Size~: 24.83 KB | Sep 30 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Intel made some noise about turbolinux | Sep 30 21:03 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cheaplaptops.org.uk/20090928/video-how-to-install-linux-on-zipit-z2-wireless-messenger/ | Sep 30 21:05 |
| phIRCe | Title: Video: How to install Linux on Zipit Z2 Wireless Messenger .::. Size~: 27.21 KB | Sep 30 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Not as good as JPerlow's zaurus but cheaper | Sep 30 21:05 |
| schestowitz | And it starts with a Z too | Sep 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Which means it dies in the market like Zune | Sep 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Zafara | Sep 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Zimbra... | Sep 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Zimbra might be save from Microhoo! | Sep 30 21:06 |
| schestowitz | *saved | Sep 30 21:07 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ddj.com/hpc-high-performance-computing/220300084 | Sep 30 21:09 |
| phIRCe | Title: Dr. Dobb's | NVIDIA Releases OpenCL Drivers | September 28, 2009 .::. Size~: 81.22 KB | Sep 30 21:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.builderau.com.au/blogs/betaliving/viewblogpost.htm?p=339271197 | Sep 30 21:12 |
| phIRCe | Title: Non-professional Oracle wrestling - Blogs - Beta Living - Builder AU .::. Size~: 50.83 KB | Sep 30 21:12 |
| schestowitz | He can't manage to install Oracle? | Sep 30 21:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.finextra.com/fullpr.asp?id=29958 | Sep 30 21:18 |
| *sdgg has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Sep 30 21:19 | |
| trmanco | the bot is dead | Sep 30 21:21 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: your colleague floats a lot of rather 'radical' ideas in recent weeks: http://www.daniweb.com/news/story226594.html | Sep 30 21:21 |
| schestowitz | This is the latest among many. How would that work? Do we assassinate all but one distro? | Sep 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | If so, who voted? | Sep 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | *votes | Sep 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Are forkers or the distro to be forked? | Sep 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | As in pitchforked? :-| | Sep 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | The idea of having one unified distro and killing the rest is very Leninist | Sep 30 21:22 |
| schestowitz | One should do an analogy for Universal Linux | Sep 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Using a parable like Universal Ice Cream | Sep 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | We decide on one flavour and have only that our entire life | Sep 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | It would simplify things for ice cream men | Sep 30 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Only one kind of carton with one single flavour | Sep 30 21:24 |
| *Adus (n=joeh@78.149.201.254) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 21:25 | |
| schestowitz | Easier to produce, can't serve anything wrong to hungry kids and adults | Sep 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10363373-83.html | Sep 30 21:25 |
| schestowitz | "A lot of people fear big Government, I believe this fear is misplaced when the biggest danger to our freedoms and freedom of choice is big business. This is also why I have turned off cookies so I cannot be tracked, I do not mind the government tracking me because I do not purposely break any laws but Big business can do almost anything Our Government can do. I use Linux because of this, Microsoft has bean working hard at taking | Sep 30 21:26 |
| schestowitz | over Linux and succeeded with some flavors of Linux. Lord help us if they get them all." | Sep 30 21:26 |
| schestowitz | http://www.usnews.com/blogs/washington-whispers/2009/09/29/steven-chu-works-to-save-energy.html | Sep 30 21:26 |
| Adus | How exactly is Microsoft trying to take-over linux? | Sep 30 21:28 |
| JPerlow | They'll buy novell, that will keep roy busy | Sep 30 21:29 |
| JPerlow | lol | Sep 30 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Too much redundancy (GroupWise, SUSE, eDirectory...) | Sep 30 21:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft treats Novell like it treats Citrix | Sep 30 21:30 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4737 | Sep 30 21:31 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9254 | Sep 30 21:32 |
| JPerlow | i actually think they should buy both companies | Sep 30 21:32 |
| schestowitz | What for? They already got 'em by the b0lls | Sep 30 21:33 |
| *phIRCe has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 30 21:33 | |
| schestowitz | Same with Yah00! | Sep 30 21:33 |
| JPerlow | well, the fact you have to buy licenses for citrix ica and load balancing on top of RDP and windows client lic is a bit of a double whammy | Sep 30 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Bartz would make a good fit for that image of a runaway groom (shotgun wedding) | Sep 30 21:34 |
| JPerlow | its a major obstacle to large citrix deployments | Sep 30 21:34 |
| Adus | You really think license fees are that much of a restriction? In my experience maintenance is always the expensive part of any deployment. | Sep 30 21:35 |
| JPerlow | with citrix that is built into any large deal | Sep 30 21:36 |
| JPerlow | very prohibitive | Sep 30 21:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/images?hl=en-GB&q=bartz+ballmer&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Sep 30 21:36 |
| *Adus has quit () | Sep 30 21:37 | |
| schestowitz | IBM Opens Linux Innovation Center in Kazakhstan < http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090930005351&newsLang=en > First article about it that I see not referring to comedy and ridicule from "Borat" | Sep 30 21:39 |
| *Adus (n=joeh@89.242.145.169) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 21:39 | |
| JPerlow | I like khazakstan | Sep 30 21:39 |
| JPerlow | biakonur cosmodrome is there | Sep 30 21:40 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 21:41 | |
| Adus | Can't say I've ever been. | Sep 30 21:42 |
| JPerlow | you won't without having 30 million dollars. | Sep 30 21:42 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baikonur_Cosmodrome | Sep 30 21:42 |
| schestowitz | I had to look that up..... | Sep 30 21:42 |
| Adus | I meant to Khazakstan in general. | Sep 30 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Joyce Estate Pays $240,000 In Attorneys' Fees To Shloss And Her Counsel < http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/node/6265 > | Sep 30 21:43 |
| JPerlow | not on my a-list of vacation destinations | Sep 30 21:43 |
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| *phIRCe (n=b0t@85.244.51.122) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 21:44 | |
| *iKonaK has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 30 21:45 | |
| schestowitz | "For the past few years, it's become increasingly common for police to put GPS devices on suspects' cars to track where they are." http://techdirt.com/articles/20090930/0051136364.shtml | Sep 30 21:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: Massachusetts Says Cops Need Warrant To Stick GPS Device On Your Car | Techdirt .::. Size~: 53.47 KB | Sep 30 21:46 |
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| schestowitz | JPerlow: Costa Rica crossed out, eh? | Sep 30 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Short flight, unlike Asia | Sep 30 21:46 |
| JPerlow | whats wrong with costa rica? | Sep 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Nothing. | Sep 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Crossed out from "places to visit" | Sep 30 21:47 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, you went there a year ago with your friend Heron or whoever | Sep 30 21:48 |
| JPerlow | they're close to jurassic park. | Sep 30 21:48 |
| JPerlow | where all the velociraptors are. | Sep 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz | jurassic park dosn't exist :-) | Sep 30 21:48 |
| JPerlow | dammit! | Sep 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: so you reconcile evolution with other things like scripture | Sep 30 21:48 |
| JPerlow | I've never been to costa rica. | Sep 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: oh. | Sep 30 21:48 |
| schestowitz | I thought you did. | Sep 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Puerto Rico? | Sep 30 21:49 |
| JPerlow | Yes. | Sep 30 21:49 |
| Adus | So where are you guys based? | Sep 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Where Vista was manufactured AFAIK | Sep 30 21:49 |
| JPerlow | New York. | Sep 30 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Manchester | Sep 30 21:49 |
| Adus | Manchester... sorry. :p | Sep 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20090930/0126206365.shtml | Sep 30 21:50 |
| phIRCe | Title: The Myth Of Crowdsourcing... Or Misunderstanding Crowdsourcing? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 56.36 KB | Sep 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I wonder how to read it | Sep 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz | "Manchester [sorry, I should have guessed" | Sep 30 21:50 |
| schestowitz | "Manchester [sorry to hear it]" | Sep 30 21:50 |
| Adus | sorry to hear it. | Sep 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Oh. | Sep 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Why? | Sep 30 21:51 |
| Adus | Because I don't really like Manchester... | Sep 30 21:51 |
| JPerlow | havent been to manchester. | Sep 30 21:51 |
| JPerlow | been to cardiff. | Sep 30 21:51 |
| JPerlow | been to milton keynes. | Sep 30 21:51 |
| JPerlow | london. | Sep 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: David from Wikimedia left a comment: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/30/counter-article-to-perlow/#comments | Sep 30 21:51 |
| phIRCe | Title: Groklaw Groks Mono, Miguel de Icaza, Microsoft, and More | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 117.22 KB | Sep 30 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Adus: it's like brands | Sep 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz | People are fascinated by city names | Sep 30 21:52 |
| *iKonaK has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 30 21:52 | |
| schestowitz | Where the central banks are located people flock | Sep 30 21:52 |
| JPerlow | I'm known for my graphics on top of my articles. | Sep 30 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Your brother's? | Sep 30 21:52 |
| *iKonaK (n=iKonaK@89.137.173.224) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 21:52 | |
| JPerlow | I use a number of his, yes. | Sep 30 21:53 |
| JPerlow | but I also make my own. | Sep 30 21:53 |
| schestowitz | GIMP? | Sep 30 21:53 |
| JPerlow | yep. | Sep 30 21:53 |
| Adus | schestowitz: I've been to Manchester, I don't like it. It has nothing to do with the name. | Sep 30 21:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/30/unisys_end_user_services/ | Sep 30 21:53 |
| phIRCe | Title: Unisys takes services to the desktop • The Register .::. Size~: 26.12 KB | Sep 30 21:53 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/30/expedition_21_launch/ | Sep 30 21:55 |
| phIRCe | Title: Clown blasts off for ISS • The Register .::. Size~: 20.61 KB | Sep 30 21:55 |
| schestowitz | IIS lasts off, for clowns | Sep 30 21:55 |
| Adus | Clowns with a considerable amount of spare cash. | Sep 30 21:55 |
| schestowitz | A little taste for technology | Sep 30 21:57 |
| JPerlow | 25 million. | Sep 30 21:57 |
| JPerlow | as I said. | Sep 30 21:57 |
| schestowitz | IIS does not exactly run on stable platforms | Sep 30 21:57 |
| *iKonaK has quit (Client Quit) | Sep 30 21:57 | |
| JPerlow | That's a load of crap, but you're entitled to your opinion. | Sep 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | NASA had issues with Windows viruses in space | Sep 30 21:58 |
| Adus | Is there really a need for all the Microsoft hate? | Sep 30 21:58 |
| schestowitz | Hate? | Sep 30 21:58 |
| Adus | whatever you like to call it :) | Sep 30 21:58 |
| JPerlow | Adus: if you subscribe a purist free software ideology as dictated by stallman, hate is part and parcel of the religion | Sep 30 21:59 |
| JPerlow | there is no ground for tolerance there | Sep 30 21:59 |
| Adus | JPerlow: I don't, at all. | Sep 30 21:59 |
| JPerlow | well then you're going to get really bored in this room. | Sep 30 22:00 |
| schestowitz | http://mediakey.dk/~cc/linux-versus-windows-os-impact-on-uptime-and-speed/ | Sep 30 22:00 |
| phIRCe | Title: Mediakey - Open Source, PHP, Java, SEO, Content Management, MySQL, Virtuel Hosting, Joomla, Linux, Internet Marketing .::. Size~: 2.14 KB | Sep 30 22:00 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: even the Yankee Group showed so | Sep 30 22:00 |
| schestowitz | They showed Windows becoming LESS stable | Sep 30 22:00 |
| Adus | Well, actually, I came in to find out why and hear the arguments for that standpoint. | Sep 30 22:00 |
| schestowitz | And that's the Yankee Group | Sep 30 22:00 |
| schestowitz | aka Microsoft pay-to-say buddy | Sep 30 22:00 |
| JPerlow | roy, I've deployed huge windows only environments with extremely reliable uptimes. its a question of patch managment and good system administration guidelines being applied. | Sep 30 22:01 |
| schestowitz | So you're a good Windows admin? :-) | Sep 30 22:02 |
| JPerlow | now, as to whether it is easier to become lazy in a windows only environment and deteriorate your systems, thats a different topic of discussion. | Sep 30 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Joking aside, I prefer relying on more than one case/incident | Sep 30 22:02 |
| schestowitz | That's what some surveys are done for | Sep 30 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Sadly, many surveys are paid for by companies | Sep 30 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Even academia got corrupted by funding from companies | Sep 30 22:02 |
| Adus | and I'm sure I could find a survey which totally disagrees with the findings of another. | Sep 30 22:02 |
| schestowitz | You could | Sep 30 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Many companies paid for white papers, which are whitewash | Sep 30 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Few analysts out there are indpendent | Sep 30 22:03 |
| schestowitz | They only put forth this illusion | Sep 30 22:03 |
| schestowitz | Becuase that's how their work will be valued | Sep 30 22:03 |
| Adus | I have a feeling I'm the exact type of human you will dislike. As I say, I came here to hear the argument, I certainly don't agree. | Sep 30 22:04 |
| schestowitz | The arguments about Novell are not new | Sep 30 22:05 |
| schestowitz | They can be found in the site, as well | Sep 30 22:05 |
| Adus | It's very easy to say that a report or survey is biased. But it's hypocrisy to say that a report which happens to say what you want it to is not. | Sep 30 22:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/30/google_wave_preview/ | Sep 30 22:06 |
| phIRCe | Title: Google Wave: Testers line up for the love-in • The Register .::. Size~: 22.92 KB | Sep 30 22:06 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I claim it for neither | Sep 30 22:06 |
| JPerlow | Adus: well I like you already. | Sep 30 22:06 |
| schestowitz | I even blast the LF-funded IDC 'studies' | Sep 30 22:06 |
| schestowitz | And ones from Novell | Sep 30 22:06 |
| schestowitz | IDC is a pay-to-sayer | Sep 30 22:06 |
| Adus | I think your point is "everyone is out to look after themself" | Sep 30 22:07 |
| Adus | What a suprise. | Sep 30 22:07 |
| schestowitz | That's how they do business | Sep 30 22:08 |
| schestowitz | Likewise, the FSF says it cannot trust companies, which is fair enough | Sep 30 22:08 |
| Adus | You put your finger on it I think, business. Businesses exist to be profitable. | Sep 30 22:08 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat too has its objectives... and *sough* s/w patents | Sep 30 22:08 |
| schestowitz | *sough*->*cough* | Sep 30 22:09 |
| schestowitz | Adus: it's besides the points | Sep 30 22:09 |
| schestowitz | Business is also a hierarchical (tyrannical) construct | Sep 30 22:09 |
| schestowitz | A better capitalism can be more peer-like, a la Linux Foundation | Sep 30 22:10 |
| schestowitz | This produces better products faster and allows participants to do business based on quality of service and such | Sep 30 22:10 |
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| schestowitz | Internet ages enables a lot of stuff that did not exist | Sep 30 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Like exclusionary research, which becomes rather slow and antiquated | Sep 30 22:11 |
| Adus | "better" and "faster" are subjective terms. | Sep 30 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Not much so | Sep 30 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Better can be judged in many ways | Sep 30 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Including speed | Sep 30 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Where speed can be pace of improvement | Sep 30 22:11 |
| schestowitz | Studies show that patents slow innovation, for example | Sep 30 22:11 |
| Adus | and for every "better" you can say about Linux, there will be one for Windows, or Mac OS. | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | And Nobel laureates agree | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Adus: how long for? | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | They rely on flow of income to keep up | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft already struggles | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | It lost many engineers | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | It sturuggles to keep up with patching | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | ATM, Microsoft sends many jobs to the East to save money | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | Novell too | Sep 30 22:12 |
| schestowitz | It's ethical only if you consider the issues of globalisation | Sep 30 22:13 |
| schestowitz | And this is not globalisation done right | Sep 30 22:13 |
| schestowitz | Because Novell and Microsoft would not pay them the same | Sep 30 22:13 |
| schestowitz | The margins and profits are thus increased for the already-wealthy, now at a more global scale | Sep 30 22:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/30/zimbra_six_dot_o/ | Sep 30 22:15 |
| phIRCe | Title: Yahoo! spruces open source Exchange rival • The Register .::. Size~: 23.61 KB | Sep 30 22:15 |
| Adus | I'll take those in order shall I. | Sep 30 22:16 |
| Adus | Software Patents is a very specific issue. I have no particular issue with them, though I wouldn't object if they disapeared. It's a very far cry from the sort of "revolution" you are suggesting. It's unlikely that you're going to overthrow the biggest software developers overnight. | Sep 30 22:17 |
| Adus | Microsoft have presence in nearly every country in the world. It's true that they have made cuts, but nothing substantially larger than other companies restructuring during the recession. | Sep 30 22:19 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-174-90.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 22:19 | |
| Adus | I believe they cut 5000 jobs of at 100,000 headcount company. | Sep 30 22:19 |
| schestowitz | eWEEK lets Alfresco write an 'article' http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/How-to-Make-Web-20-Work-Using-OpenSource-Enterprise-Content-Management/ | Sep 30 22:20 |
| phIRCe | Title: How to Make Web 2.0 Work Using Open-Source Enterprise Content Management .::. Size~: 109.58 KB | Sep 30 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Have they run out of reporters. So they do placements now | Sep 30 22:20 |
| schestowitz | Adus: no, a lot more | Sep 30 22:20 |
| schestowitz | What they declare to investors because they must is not the full picture | Sep 30 22:20 |
| schestowitz | And Red hat is actually hiring, not cutting | Sep 30 22:21 |
| Adus | Microsoft are still hiring. | Sep 30 22:22 |
| Adus | They made cuts in areas, to invest money in other areas | Sep 30 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Adus: they sack | Sep 30 22:23 |
| schestowitz | They bring interns and stuff | Sep 30 22:24 |
| schestowitz | It's cheap | Sep 30 22:24 |
| *amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@118.210.41.64) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 30 22:24 | |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/07/layoffs-and-microsoft-utah/ | Sep 30 22:24 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Lays Off More Employees Across the US, But Hires Near SCO | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.68 KB | Sep 30 22:24 |
| schestowitz | Another misuse of the "open source"brand (IMHO): http://www.core77.com/blog/object_culture/big_idea_group_open_source_innovation_company_helps_bring_products_to_market_14795.asp | Sep 30 22:25 |
| phIRCe | Title: Big Idea Group "open source innovation company" helps bring products to market - Core77 .::. Size~: 25.17 KB | Sep 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | "open source innovation " | Sep 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | There's "open source food" | Sep 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | There's "open source sex" | Sep 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | There's "open source energy" | Sep 30 22:25 |
| schestowitz | There's "open source wine" | Sep 30 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Is there "open source propritary softare" yet | Sep 30 22:26 |
| schestowitz | *iet * ware | Sep 30 22:26 |
| MinceR | that's the best | Sep 30 22:27 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) | Sep 30 22:33 | |
| JPerlow | why does sex need to be open source? | Sep 30 22:34 |
| *amarsh04__ is now known as amarsh04 | Sep 30 22:34 | |
| JPerlow | what the hell is proprietary about it? | Sep 30 22:34 |
| MinceR | the partners? :) | Sep 30 22:36 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: as in 'mix and match'? | Sep 30 22:36 |
| ThistleWeb | recumplie this | Sep 30 22:36 |
| ThistleWeb | recumpile* | Sep 30 22:36 |
| schestowitz | So women can recompile their man | Sep 30 22:37 |
| ThistleWeb | lol | Sep 30 22:37 |
| MinceR | copy, alter, share | Sep 30 22:37 |
| MinceR | ;) | Sep 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Comment out the bad traits | Sep 30 22:37 |
| MinceR | use for any purpose | Sep 30 22:37 |
| JPerlow | sorry but no woman is changing my source | Sep 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz | No warranty | Sep 30 22:37 |
| ThistleWeb | you could say that's what babies are, recompiled from sperm and egg | Sep 30 22:37 |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 30 22:37 | |
| schestowitz | Until it hits Mono | Sep 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Then the project gets tainted | Sep 30 22:37 |
| schestowitz | STDs in the code spoli the broth | Sep 30 22:38 |
| ThistleWeb | open sauce | Sep 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz | *spoil | Sep 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Hey, AlanBell | Sep 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: maybe she already does | Sep 30 22:38 |
| schestowitz | By choosing particular films for you to watch :-) | Sep 30 22:38 |
| AlanBell | Hey Roy | Sep 30 22:39 |
| schestowitz | We have Jason here :-) | Sep 30 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Burying hatchets, smoking the mackerel pipe and frying some ssds | Sep 30 22:42 |
| schestowitz | [they don't burn well... SHEESH] | Sep 30 22:43 |
| schestowitz | This medal tradition is silly. They can just game it or sell awards: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/09/prweb2959774.htm | Sep 30 22:46 |
| schestowitz | BOSSIE. Sounds like BOSS, means little than some Web page with names of companies | Sep 30 22:47 |
| schestowitz | *little more | Sep 30 22:47 |
| JPerlow | my wife wants to go out to dinner. But I'll keep the channel open. | Sep 30 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Cool, nice to have you around, JPerlow | Sep 30 22:57 |
| JPerlow | You say that now, but you'll regret it later. | Sep 30 22:57 |
| schestowitz | If you're looking to pick up dirt here, then you could also pick it from logs | Sep 30 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Or comments, whatever. | Sep 30 22:59 |
| schestowitz | If you do a dinosaur of me, holler at me first. | Sep 30 22:59 |
| schestowitz | ;-) | Sep 30 22:59 |
| JPerlow | its more interesting when you know the opposition is in the room. | Sep 30 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Joe? | Sep 30 22:59 |
| JPerlow | Don't tell me he hangs out here as well. | Sep 30 23:00 |
| JPerlow | he has more than enough time to fill with his real job. | Sep 30 23:00 |
| Adus | Are we talking about another Joe here, not me? :p | Sep 30 23:01 |
| schestowitz | Do you know each other? | Sep 30 23:01 |
| JPerlow | If you are referring to Zonker, yes. | Sep 30 23:01 |
| JPerlow | we're good friends. | Sep 30 23:01 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 30 23:02 | |
| schestowitz | I know. | Sep 30 23:02 |
| Adus | Ah another Joe. Damn common name. | Sep 30 23:02 |
| schestowitz | I've no real problem with Zonker. He does it for the pay | Sep 30 23:02 |
| schestowitz | I don't delve into people's personal lives | Sep 30 23:03 |
| JPerlow | well thats a relief, I was worried you'd find all the bodies buried in my basement. | Sep 30 23:03 |
| schestowitz | But companies are people, so for their professional activities they should not be expected to be, well...... invisible and protected by steel walls | Sep 30 23:03 |
| JPerlow | anyways.. wife hungry. | Sep 30 23:03 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: no bodies | Sep 30 23:03 |
| JPerlow | later | Sep 30 23:03 |
| schestowitz | Just skeletons | Sep 30 23:03 |
| schestowitz | You keep em in your closter | Sep 30 23:04 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 30 23:04 | |
| schestowitz | *closet | Sep 30 23:04 |
| Adus | Making a personal attack on someone is pointless and under-handed. A company is fair game, but you can't expect everyone to agree. | Sep 30 23:04 |
| schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/open_source/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220300411&subSection=Open+Source | Sep 30 23:09 |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Open Source Advocate Joins Startup -- Web Site Analytics -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 83.55 KB | Sep 30 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft open source henchman | Sep 30 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Not advocate | Sep 30 23:09 |
| schestowitz | He advocates Microsoft at the expense of FOSS | Sep 30 23:09 |
| cubezzz | the title is apt | Sep 30 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Adus: people make decision @ "company" | Sep 30 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Even folks like Phipps acknowledge it | Sep 30 23:10 |
| Adus | But that is no reason for a personal attack | Sep 30 23:10 |
| Adus | people act on behalf of a company, it's no reason to make a personal attack in my opinion. | Sep 30 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Companies are groups of friends at the top (x) giving orders to people at the bottom at layer x+1 | Sep 30 23:10 |
| cubezzz | what personal attack? | Sep 30 23:10 |
| schestowitz | That's pyramid structure where the managers basically do everything | Sep 30 23:10 |
| schestowitz | So people like Gates and Ballmer are accountable | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Not this 'thing' called Microsogy | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | *ft | Sep 30 23:11 |
| cubezzz | MicroSoggy! | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | People act on behalf of people | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | They can also act badly for compliance with orders from those who act badly | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | it's no excuse | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | There are ethical companies out there too | Sep 30 23:11 |
| schestowitz | ANd that's why they receive little flak | Sep 30 23:12 |
| Adus | So as far as you are concerned, any code Microsoft might in the future make open-source is not valid because it might be in their interest? | Sep 30 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, _goblin | Sep 30 23:16 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm fine with HP giving self-serving code because it's not trying to destroy FS | Sep 30 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm fine with IBM giving self-serving code because it's not trying to destroy FS | Sep 30 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm fine with Red Hat giving self-serving code because it's not trying to destroy FS | Sep 30 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm fine with Sheraton giving self-serving code because it's not trying to destroy FS | Sep 30 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm fine with Exxon giving self-serving code because it's not trying to destroy FS | Sep 30 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm fine with China giving self-serving code because it's not trying to destroy FS | Sep 30 23:17 |
| Adus | I get the point. | Sep 30 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft indoctrinates staff against FS (not just inside Microsoft) | Sep 30 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft tries to illegalise FS | Sep 30 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft sued Linux by proxyt | Sep 30 23:18 |
| Adus | So, in an ideal world Microsoft would collapse? | Sep 30 23:18 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft commits many crimes [less revevant to it] | Sep 30 23:18 |
| schestowitz | And Microsoft is still run by the same thugs | Sep 30 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has not changes ONE bit | Sep 30 23:19 |
| schestowitz | The above examples are 1-month old | Sep 30 23:19 |
| schestowitz | When some pedo keeps molesting kids you don't slap him on the wrist. You put him in prison. | Sep 30 23:19 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's other crimes withstanding | Sep 30 23:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.laquadrature.net/en/act-now-the-future-of-eu-internet-may-be-sealed-tonight | Sep 30 23:20 |
| phIRCe | Title: Act now! The future of EU Internet may be sealed tonight. | La Quadrature du Net .::. Size~: 27.65 KB | Sep 30 23:20 |
| schestowitz | Police officer will be charged for G20 assault < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/28/g20-police-officer-assault > | Sep 30 23:21 |
| schestowitz | "Sergeant Delroy Smellie has been charged with assault after a video emerged of a woman being hit with a baton during the G20 summit protests in London." | Sep 30 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Smellie... not a good name, either. | Sep 30 23:21 |
| Adus | I don't see any examples schestowitz, I see you accusing. | Sep 30 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I have examples | Sep 30 23:22 |
| _goblin | hi Roy! | Sep 30 23:22 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/ | Sep 30 23:22 |
| phIRCe | Title: Main Page - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 27.52 KB | Sep 30 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Adus: research the issues | Sep 30 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is a rogue company | Sep 30 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Like a failed state but the commercial equiv. | Sep 30 23:22 |
| Adus | schestowitz: I trust that/your site to be about as neutral and objective as fox news. | Sep 30 23:23 |
| schestowitz | It has resorted long ago to terrorising as a business model and destruction of potential competition | Sep 30 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Buy buying the competition, using tricks to destroy them, bribery, cheating, poaching, etc. | Sep 30 23:23 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I'm sure MSNBC you will find more informative | Sep 30 23:24 |
| schestowitz | Between the articles about Barbie and Ken you might find some piece on Microsoft offering "free" security | Sep 30 23:24 |
| schestowitz | ANd about Gates caressing cute puppies | Sep 30 23:24 |
| schestowitz | And it there's cross-publication affinity you'll also find praises for word's greatest heroic horsemen Donald Trump, Carl Icahn, and Dick Cheney | Sep 30 23:25 |
| Adus | schestowitz: I was making a remark about the neutrality of boycottnovell being questionable. I'm not arguing any other source of information is neutral. | Sep 30 23:26 |
| schestowitz | http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/publicoption_pelosi/?rc=tw | Sep 30 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Adus: you can deduce from references URLs | Sep 30 23:26 |
| schestowitz | If that suits you better | Sep 30 23:26 |
| schestowitz | BN mostly accumulates information from sources it cites | Sep 30 23:27 |
| schestowitz | Adus: I am not hostile t/w you | Sep 30 23:27 |
| *Lns has quit ("Φ") | Sep 30 23:27 | |
| schestowitz | Some people wrongly assume that sites with a 'hostile' message towards /hostile/ behaviour of companies are inherently malign and intolerant | Sep 30 23:28 |
| MinceR | Adus: in an ideal world, m$ would not have been allowed to exist. | Sep 30 23:28 |
| schestowitz | If you have questions, feel free to ask | Sep 30 23:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not just Microsoft | Sep 30 23:28 |
| MinceR | or rather, there would have been no opportunity for it to exist | Sep 30 23:28 |
| Adus | Yes, of course it does. But it does not accumulate references to sources which are making any opposing points, which makes it fundamentally non-neutral. I am not saying that is neccesarily a bad thing, the site exists to make a point. I'm simply saying that it's not neutral in any way. | Sep 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | Or regulation would force it to have changed (long ago) | Sep 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | But the government is beneath companies where Microsoft is located, so they make the rules | Sep 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | Adus: it does | Sep 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | On Saturdays I also post positive things | Sep 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | For Novell | Sep 30 23:29 |
| schestowitz | I hide nothing | Sep 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | I select relevant fragments to shorten | Sep 30 23:30 |
| Adus | That is hardly a neutral point of view | Sep 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Look for the sources and indetify corroboration | Sep 30 23:30 |
| schestowitz | You can't get quotes and documents wrong | Sep 30 23:30 |
| Adus | however, to the discussion. Microsoft does exist | Sep 30 23:31 |
| Adus | what would you propose to do with it? | Sep 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Novell threw a -REDACTED- copy of the deal just before Easter | Sep 30 23:31 |
| MinceR | Adus: the facts are neutral. | Sep 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz | It wanted to push it under the rug and for no-one to look | Sep 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz | That -- to me-- is an example of Novell hiding the 'bad news' | Sep 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Only Novell press releases to be obeyed | Sep 30 23:31 |
| schestowitz | With drones at TCMNet pretending these are articles by changing a few words | Sep 30 23:32 |
| Adus | MinceR: I'd argue that very little in an argument like this is fact which is absolute. Either way, the site is not neutral and claiming it is, is foolish. | Sep 30 23:32 |
| Adus | What I want to know is how you'd solve the problem. | Sep 30 23:32 |
| schestowitz | I could try to pretend | Sep 30 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Like moles such as MOG do | Sep 30 23:32 |
| MinceR | i'd argue that a lot in an argument like this is absolute fact. | Sep 30 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Pretend to be neutral while attacking | Sep 30 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Enderle does that too | Sep 30 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They are not stupid | Sep 30 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They construct FUD patiently | Sep 30 23:33 |
| MinceR | and a lot more follows from those absolute facts naturally and obviously. | Sep 30 23:33 |
| Adus | MinceR: We're not going to agree about neutrality and facts. | Sep 30 23:33 |
| MinceR | m$ is doing a very shoddy job of pretending that they're not the bad guys. | Sep 30 23:34 |
| Adus | But again, how would you solve it? Microsoft exists. | Sep 30 23:34 |
| Adus | What would you do with Microsoft? | Sep 30 23:34 |
| MinceR | i'd close them down | Sep 30 23:34 |
| MinceR | use their assets to offset as much of the damage they've done as possible | Sep 30 23:34 |
| MinceR | and i'd punish the leaders. | Sep 30 23:34 |
| Adus | And let 91,000 people lose their jobs, and throw the software industry into total chaos? | Sep 30 23:34 |
| MinceR | most of those people were doing either shoddy or evil or both jobs. | Sep 30 23:35 |
| MinceR | their "developers" are useless. | Sep 30 23:35 |
| Adus | How is causing 91 thousand people to lose their jobs good for the little man? | Sep 30 23:35 |
| schestowitz | fewa would love this: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8584 | Sep 30 23:35 |
| phIRCe | Title: Amy Goodman Interviews CMD's Wendell Potter | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 22.66 KB | Sep 30 23:35 |
| Adus | Is that so MinceR? | Sep 30 23:35 |
| MinceR | the little man should have looked whom they were supporting. | Sep 30 23:35 |
| MinceR | what about the little man who is made to suffer by what m$ does? | Sep 30 23:35 |
| schestowitz | Adus: straw man and fallacy | Sep 30 23:36 |
| MinceR | do you not care about those? the majority? | Sep 30 23:36 |
| MinceR | those who had a clue can still find jobs | Sep 30 23:36 |
| schestowitz | The whole "letting people be laid" defense of provably BS | Sep 30 23:36 |
| schestowitz | It's down to economics | Sep 30 23:36 |
| MinceR | well, i wouldn't hire anyone from m$, but that could be just me | Sep 30 23:36 |
| MinceR | i mean, the quality of their products speaks for itself | Sep 30 23:36 |
| Adus | I'd say Microsoft is pretty much all about economics, and they seem to be doing alright. | Sep 30 23:37 |
| schestowitz | Their interests more so | Sep 30 23:37 |
| MinceR | the nauseating, disgusting propaganda their marketroids put out also speaks for itself | Sep 30 23:37 |
| schestowitz | They tend to bring the Microsoft culture into the next employer | Sep 30 23:37 |
| MinceR | and the crimes their lawyers did also speak for themselves. | Sep 30 23:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/26/AR2009092601748.html | Sep 30 23:37 |
| phIRCe | Title: McChrystal Says Insurgents Are Winning Communications Battle - washingtonpost.com .::. Size~: 103.32 KB | Sep 30 23:37 |
| schestowitz | Propaganda | Sep 30 23:37 |
| MinceR | 003756 < Adus> I'd say Microsoft is pretty much all about economics, and they seem to be doing alright. | Sep 30 23:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8584 | Sep 30 23:38 |
| MinceR | sure, as long as economics is all about taking all you can and giving nothing in treturn | Sep 30 23:38 |
| phIRCe | Title: Amy Goodman Interviews CMD's Wendell Potter | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 22.66 KB | Sep 30 23:38 |
| MinceR | s/tre/re/ | Sep 30 23:38 |
| schestowitz | "Takers" economy | Sep 30 23:38 |
| MinceR | as long as you accept the fallacy that everything is fair in business | Sep 30 23:38 |
| MinceR | because it's business | Sep 30 23:38 |
| MinceR | and that ethics don't apply to business | Sep 30 23:38 |
| Adus | I'm pretty sure that's exactly what business and economy is all about. | Sep 30 23:38 |
| schestowitz | As in, "good for me, brainwash the rest to believe it's good for them" | Sep 30 23:38 |
| MinceR | hiding behind an artificial entity does not entitle you to do all kinds of evil to anyone you can, in the name of the Almighty Money. | Sep 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Ethics don't apply to business | Sep 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Any person would tell you that | Sep 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz | That's why accountability does not exist | Sep 30 23:39 |
| Adus | Whose Ethics? | Sep 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz | And people must be treated like corporations, or vice versa rather | Sep 30 23:39 |
| MinceR | if i killed someone you love in the name of a company, would you just wave and say "it's business"? i don't think so. | Sep 30 23:39 |
| Adus | I wasn't aware Microsoft were in the business of murder. | Sep 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz | Corporations as an organism without ethics | Sep 30 23:39 |
| schestowitz | *Are | Sep 30 23:40 |
| Adus | Whose Ethics? | Sep 30 23:40 |
| MinceR | you can't follow a metaphor, can you? | Sep 30 23:40 |
| schestowitz | People's | Sep 30 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Sep 30 23:40 |
| MinceR | stands to reason | Sep 30 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu | Sep 30 23:40 |
| MinceR | if you had a clue, you wouldn't be here defending m$. | Sep 30 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Mutual respect, reciprocity | Sep 30 23:40 |
| Adus | MinceR: Murder is a long way from abusing market position. | Sep 30 23:41 |
| MinceR | sane people's ethics. perhaps most human beings aren't sociopaths like ballmer is. yet. | Sep 30 23:41 |
| MinceR | Adus: the point was hiding behind a corporate identity while committing crimes. | Sep 30 23:41 |
| MinceR | Adus: the individuals are still responsible. | Sep 30 23:41 |
| Adus | "crimes"? | Sep 30 23:41 |
| *MinceR sighs | Sep 30 23:41 | |
| MinceR | look them up, i'm not going to bother with spoon-feeding you | Sep 30 23:42 |
| MinceR | remember, they've been found guilty in some antitrust cases, even if not sufficiently punished. | Sep 30 23:42 |
| Adus | Well, I think if they have been found guilty and you don't agree with the punishment, it's a matter to take up with your government, not Microsoft. | Sep 30 23:43 |
| MinceR | in fact, there happens to be a handy website around that mentions a lot of those crimes. but i won't tell you which one it is, but it's obvious. :> | Sep 30 23:43 |
| MinceR | there are matters to take up with the government, too. | Sep 30 23:43 |
| MinceR | corruption is one that's even relevant to this case. | Sep 30 23:43 |
| MinceR | btw, you're trying to ignore the point that they were found guilty. | Sep 30 23:43 |
| Adus | If there is proven crime, the legal system should deal with it. Something which you might find questionable is not neccesarily crime though. | Sep 30 23:44 |
| *test (n=test@89.243.155.137) has left #boycottnovell ("futile") | Sep 30 23:44 | |
| MinceR | it should, but it fails to do so. | Sep 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz | There is proven crime | Sep 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz | End of story | Sep 30 23:44 |
| MinceR | the legal system is corruptible. | Sep 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz | It otherwise seems like we are trolled in some way | Sep 30 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Violation of law and felonies are crimes | Sep 30 23:44 |
| Adus | YEs, and that's a matter for the legal system to deal with | Sep 30 23:45 |
| Adus | not you. | Sep 30 23:45 |
| schestowitz | The information is avialble from that 'biased' site, usdoj.gov or whatever | Sep 30 23:45 |
| MinceR | who said only the legal system can deal with those matters? | Sep 30 23:45 |
| MinceR | especially considering the fact that it has failed to do so? | Sep 30 23:45 |
| schestowitz | ELgal system is appointed by companies | Sep 30 23:45 |
| schestowitz | USDOJ has cronies in it, for a fact | Sep 30 23:45 |
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| schestowitz | To understand all this you need to gather knowledge about the political system | Sep 30 23:46 |
| Adus | You have proof of this schestowitz? | Sep 30 23:46 |
| MinceR | ultimately everything is subject to control by those who control lots of resources | Sep 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz | People are largely misled as to how their system work | Sep 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz | They are 'trained' well at schools those people | Sep 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz | Uncle Sam takes care of all the people | Sep 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz | And the judge in the gown is a God | Sep 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz | Never mind the TPB case with a series of potentially corrputed judges | Sep 30 23:46 |
| schestowitz | Adus: look up Barnett | Sep 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Look up NYT | Sep 30 23:47 |
| _goblin | Adus: hello | Sep 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Look up Washpost | Sep 30 23:47 |
| Adus | You think TPB is fine? That it's perfectly acceptable? | Sep 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz | That's not thw question | Sep 30 23:47 |
| Adus | Hello _goblin | Sep 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Straw man again | Sep 30 23:47 |
| schestowitz | The judge was on the side of the plaintiff | Sep 30 23:47 |
| _goblin | Roy: In regards to TPB, (and I profess to not know the Swedish legal system) what I will say is this...... | Sep 30 23:48 |
| MinceR | potentially corrupted? those judges were in the employment of the local branch of the MAFIAA | Sep 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Like putting the Pope in a case against chunrch burners | Sep 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't matter the crime | Sep 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: I'm not defendign TPB | Sep 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz | I'm attacking the 'legal' process | Sep 30 23:48 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: exactly | Sep 30 23:49 |
| _goblin | In the UK the judge is very unlikely to have an input in the guilt of a defendant....sure the sentence is passed by the judge but the guilt is not usually.....in certain cases the judge can direct the jury....I do not believe that happened.... | Sep 30 23:49 |
| MinceR | Adus: well, since you believe in the law so much, let's just say that what the TPB was doing was legal. | Sep 30 23:49 |
| schestowitz | RIAA lawyers infect the DOJ now | Sep 30 23:49 |
| _goblin | Roy: yeah I know... | Sep 30 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Biden must be happy | Sep 30 23:49 |
| MinceR | and they knew that. | Sep 30 23:49 |
| schestowitz | His buddies from the MAFIAA will invite him for many dinner after he's a ex-CP | Sep 30 23:49 |
| schestowitz | *VP | Sep 30 23:49 |
| MinceR | what they didn't expect was that in Sweden, the law doesn't matter if enough money is waved against it. | Sep 30 23:49 |
| _goblin | IMHO a corrupt judge could influence sentence nothing more.... | Sep 30 23:50 |
| MinceR | s/the // | Sep 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: exactly | Sep 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Thr rich wins | Sep 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz | More motions | Sep 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Or more soft briberies | Sep 30 23:50 |
| _goblin | and if that case had been heard in the UK I don't believe there would have been a guilty verdict. | Sep 30 23:50 |
| Adus | _goblin: I think the system in Sweden is considerably different than to here in the UK | Sep 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Deep pockets for endurance or persuasion | Sep 30 23:50 |
| _goblin | Adus: It may well be....Ive never looked into it... | Sep 30 23:50 |
| schestowitz | http://ardchoille42.blogspot.com/2009/09/ten-of-best-gnome-themes.html | Sep 30 23:51 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ian's Thoughts: Ten Of The Best GNOME Themes .::. Size~: 92.68 KB | Sep 30 23:51 |
| trmanco | http://www.plope.com/smartest_guy_in_the_room | Sep 30 23:51 |
| Adus | I think it's a bit like the Netherlands, where there is no trial by jury | Sep 30 23:51 |
| Adus | but I could be wrong. | Sep 30 23:51 |
| Adus | I used to live in Norway as well, but I don't know how it works there either. | Sep 30 23:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/1038_signs.jpg [IMG] | Sep 30 23:52 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting... .::. Size~: Too big! | Sep 30 23:52 |
| _goblin | I think TPB case, also though suggests a case against google and its cache, since if my understanding is correct Google is storing those pages.........."knowing allowing" | Sep 30 23:52 |
| _goblin | *knowingly allowing | Sep 30 23:52 |
| _goblin | IMO of course. | Sep 30 23:52 |
| Adus | I think that's a bit different. | Sep 30 23:53 |
| _goblin | Looking at the case from the UK copyright theft legislation it fits as much as TPB site does. | Sep 30 23:53 |
| Adus | They are caching sites which are already publicly available, and you can prevent your site appearing if you want. | Sep 30 23:53 |
| _goblin | yes but they are storing the same pages that TPB is found guilty of... | Sep 30 23:54 |
| _goblin | think of it this way | Sep 30 23:54 |
| schestowitz | They ignore letters | Sep 30 23:54 |
| schestowitz | That's their problem | Sep 30 23:54 |
| _goblin | what if it was indecent images? | Sep 30 23:54 |
| Adus | _goblin: They'd remove it. | Sep 30 23:54 |
| _goblin | but they didnt did they? (TPB pages I mean) | Sep 30 23:54 |
| schestowitz | No | Sep 30 23:54 |
| _goblin | "knowingly allowing" | Sep 30 23:54 |
| schestowitz | They didn't | Sep 30 23:54 |
| cubezzz | there is no "neutral" really | Sep 30 23:55 |
| cubezzz | only people who don't have a computer :) | Sep 30 23:55 |
| _goblin | as I say, if the case was in the UK and was heard, I believe Google would be in for a summons at the very least. | Sep 30 23:55 |
| Adus | Presumeably the copyright holder for the relevant item would have to issue a takedown notice to google though | Sep 30 23:56 |
| _goblin | Adus: that I wouldnt know. | Sep 30 23:56 |
| Adus | and if they didn't, that's sort of their own fault. | Sep 30 23:56 |
| _goblin | Adus: but in criminal law that would be no defence | Sep 30 23:56 |
| schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/09/carbon-nanotubes-may-power-ultracapacitor-car.ars | Sep 30 23:57 |
| phIRCe | Title: Carbon nanotubes may power ultracapacitor car - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 43.6 KB | Sep 30 23:57 |
| Adus | _goblin: I'd be very surprised if "knowingly allowed" would be legally provable in a case like that | Sep 30 23:57 |
| _goblin | Adus: consider the example of indecent images. If you know you have them you are in constructive posession....the water gets a little muddied when talking about copyrighted material.... | Sep 30 23:57 |
| Adus | Google would I am sure, argue that without being informed of the material, they were not aware. | Sep 30 23:57 |
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| _goblin | Adus: and it would be considered if that is a reasonable defence... | Sep 30 23:58 |
| _goblin | Adus: after TPB press Id say not. | Sep 30 23:58 |
| Adus | I think it would be, if they took appropiate action when informed of the content | Sep 30 23:59 |
| _goblin | Adus: TPB was not some members only BT tracker and on stats alone Google would have been aware of its existance through its search results. | Sep 30 23:59 |
| trmanco | http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4070 | Sep 30 23:59 |
| phIRCe | Title: Qt for Android | kdedevelopers.org .::. Size~: 18.93 KB | Sep 30 23:59 |
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/09/felicia-day-recruits-millions-for-her-guild/ | Sep 30 23:59 |
| phIRCe | Title: How Felicia Day Recruited Millions for Her Guild | GameLife | Wired.com .::. Size~: 109.57 KB | Sep 30 23:59 |
| _goblin | Adus: It would not (IMO) be reasonable to say Google had deniability. | Sep 30 23:59 |
| Adus | But google indexes of billions of pages. | Sep 30 23:59 |
| _goblin | Adus: yes and we are talking TPB here. | Sep 30 23:59 |
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