| tessier | If the US wanted the economy and infrastructure destroyed they would have simply let the communists have it. The communists have done far more damage to the economy than agent orange possibly could have. | Oct 22 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tessier | I drove 2000km on a 100cc scooter there. I know something about the infrastructure (or lack thereof still 35 years later). | Oct 22 00:00 |
| fewa | but yes tessier the US backed pol pot | Oct 22 00:00 |
| tessier | You would think they could have done some rebuilding in that time. | Oct 22 00:01 |
| fewa | and massively bombed Cambodia | Oct 22 00:01 |
| tessier | fewa: So...the US supplised them with all of those AK-47's? | Oct 22 00:01 |
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| tessier | No doubt the US bombed Cambodia. The Ho Chi Minh trail ran through it. | Oct 22 00:01 |
| fewa | about bombing Nixon: "A massive bombing campaign in Cambodia. Anything that flies on anything that moves." | Oct 22 00:02 |
| tessier | Wish my wife were here to tell you something about Vietnam and Cambodia. She is in Westminster (little Sai Gon) shopping right now. She is tr1nity over on #kernel-panic. | Oct 22 00:02 |
| tessier | fewa: What do you think the communists intended to do after Vietnam if they took it easily? | Oct 22 00:02 |
| fewa | they were not commjnists | Oct 22 00:03 |
| mutx | ill just read a history book, or watch on of the thousands of doco's explaining the war, | Oct 22 00:03 |
| tessier | Who wasn't? | Oct 22 00:03 |
| fewa | "We are not communists ... we are revolutionaries" who do not 'belong to the commonly accepted grouping of communist Indochina."(Ieng Sary, 1977, quoted by Vickery, Cambodia: 1978-1983, p. 288). | Oct 22 00:03 |
| fewa | http://www.plp.org/cd_sup/khmerrouge.html | Oct 22 00:03 |
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| tessier | fewa: So...who were these guys? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Kampuchea | Oct 22 00:04 |
| tessier | And why does it say Pol Pot was their leader? And why was my grand-mother in law a member of the communist party of Cambodia? | Oct 22 00:04 |
| mutx | so tessier you are saying veitnam remained communist, even after the US went there to fight (and lose), the war againt communism, but after they "left" communism still existed, but the US won ? | Oct 22 00:06 |
| tessier | And why were the Cambodians all carrying AK-47's if the US supplied them? All of the other counter-revolutionary forces supplied by the US in the world carried American gear (Central America, etc) | Oct 22 00:07 |
| tessier | I didn't say they won. I said they won every battle they fought but left the job unfinished due to lack of support at home. South Vietnam was not communist after the Paris accords. Then the North invaded. The US tried to help. But the people of the US changed their minds halfway through so in 1973 the US left. In 1975 the final units of the South Vietnamese army were defeated. The US evacuated the few remaining personel and civilians. For | Oct 22 00:09 |
| mutx | the US changed their mind because they could see that the US was getting the ass'es kicked. | Oct 22 00:10 |
| fewa | The US has to invade south vietnam | Oct 22 00:10 |
| tessier | mutx: Nope. | Oct 22 00:11 |
| fewa | mutx, the US had vastly more destructive weapons | Oct 22 00:11 |
| fewa | and decimated large swath of jungle with agent orange | Oct 22 00:12 |
| tessier | Like I said, they won every battle and took out a whole lot more of the enemy. | Oct 22 00:12 |
| tessier | Unfortunately human lives to the North was so much water to be poured down the drain. | Oct 22 00:12 |
| mutx | yes, more destructive weapons, yet they still lost, against veit con on pushbikes. | Oct 22 00:12 |
| tessier | Ho himself said it. He would just keep marching meat into the south until they won or they ran out of warm bodies. | Oct 22 00:12 |
| tessier | Would you have preferred the US had gone nuclear? They certainly would have won at that point. Wouldn't have been much left to win though. What's the point in that case? | Oct 22 00:13 |
| fewa | there was great human cost in the south | Oct 22 00:13 |
| fewa | the sourth vietnamese resistance | Oct 22 00:13 |
| tessier | It was hard to know what the Soviet Union would tolerate in trying to win. | Oct 22 00:13 |
| tessier | Yes, there was. | Oct 22 00:14 |
| tessier | Unfortunately, the Vietnamese in general are pretty corrupt as a society. :( They sold each other out left and right. They were terrible allies. :( | Oct 22 00:14 |
| tessier | And it continues today. | Oct 22 00:14 |
| tessier | We can't import anything into Vietnam without having to bribe their stupid customs officials. | Oct 22 00:14 |
| tessier | I would like to be able to do more business there and help them out but they are just beyond help. | Oct 22 00:14 |
| fewa | tessier, they were not allies | Oct 22 00:14 |
| fewa | france was the ally | Oct 22 00:15 |
| tessier | fewa: South Vietnam was supposedly allies but you may be right from a certain point of view. | Oct 22 00:15 |
| fewa | it was French interests, colonialism | Oct 22 00:15 |
| tessier | France was the ally of the US in the Vietnam war? | Oct 22 00:15 |
| tessier | France was long since out of the picture. Paris accords etc. | Oct 22 00:15 |
| fewa | it was the french that had been kicked out | Oct 22 00:15 |
| tessier | Yeah, in 1954 or whatever. | Oct 22 00:15 |
| fewa | and the US couldn't see a country gain independence like that | Oct 22 00:16 |
| fewa | I just don't see why they would want anything to do with US forces | Oct 22 00:16 |
| fewa | hence corruption | Oct 22 00:16 |
| tessier | Wait, that was the Geneva conference. The Paris accords ended the war for the US in 1973. | Oct 22 00:16 |
| tessier | fewa: Huh? The US wanted an independent South Vietnam. And they got it for a while. | Oct 22 00:17 |
| fewa | they wanted a US client state in south vietnam | Oct 22 00:17 |
| fewa | like they imposed in Greece for example | Oct 22 00:18 |
| tessier | Greece is an independent country afaik. | Oct 22 00:18 |
| fewa | there awahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Greece#Greek_Civil_War | Oct 22 00:18 |
| tessier | France gave up all of their colonies throughout the 1900's. If Ho had been a little more patient he could have spared a lot of lives. | Oct 22 00:18 |
| fewa | "civil war" | Oct 22 00:19 |
| fewa | with massive UK and US interventionism | Oct 22 00:19 |
| tessier | You seem to think any time the US supports democracy vs communism the US wants a client state. | Oct 22 00:19 |
| fewa | they do | Oct 22 00:19 |
| tessier | So did the US get it? | Oct 22 00:19 |
| tessier | Or was it the UK? | Oct 22 00:19 |
| fewa | they set up dictaitorships | Oct 22 00:20 |
| fewa | and when they set up 'democracies' those institutions are condemned as soon as they go against the US | Oct 22 00:20 |
| fewa | look at palistine | Oct 22 00:20 |
| fewa | when they voted for hamas the US condemned it | Oct 22 00:20 |
| tessier | Or was it the UK? | Oct 22 00:20 |
| fewa | immediately declared it "undemocratic" | Oct 22 00:21 |
| tessier | oops, repeated a line accidentally | Oct 22 00:21 |
| tessier | You change subjects rather quickly. We've gone from Vietnam to Cambodia to France to Greece to Palistine... | Oct 22 00:21 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_military_junta_of_1967-1974 | Oct 22 00:21 |
| fewa | CIA-backed coup | Oct 22 00:22 |
| tessier | Hamas seems to want to kill jews rather badly. It's hard to imagine how they would be democratic. | Oct 22 00:22 |
| tessier | The CIA supported lots of anti-communist efforts all over the world. | Oct 22 00:23 |
| fewa | it ended in 1975 | Oct 22 00:23 |
| fewa | the CIA supported alot of vicious dictaitor around the world | Oct 22 00:23 |
| tessier | Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils. It isn't simple. | Oct 22 00:23 |
| mutx | like george bush | Oct 22 00:23 |
| fewa | Venezuela, Chile, Argentina, Nicaragua | Oct 22 00:23 |
| fewa | all overturned | Oct 22 00:24 |
| tessier | I think I would prefer to have an evil dictator running a neighboring country than a communist who would be just as ruthless but would allow nukes to be placed in their country on behalf of the Soviets. | Oct 22 00:24 |
| fewa | while the US stragles their economies and supports the dictaitors | Oct 22 00:24 |
| fewa | thats how the US kept Saddam Hussain in power | Oct 22 00:24 |
| tessier | That was the thinking and looking at the situation back then I can't say I disagree with it. | Oct 22 00:24 |
| fewa | what about a nationalist? | Oct 22 00:24 |
| tessier | Yep. The US is still cleaning up after the mess the cold war left. | Oct 22 00:25 |
| fewa | a locally-run power? | Oct 22 00:25 |
| fewa | this is happening in south america | Oct 22 00:25 |
| tessier | Let Iraq be run by a communist or a crazy nationalist. At least the nationalist wasn't out to destroy us. | Oct 22 00:25 |
| tessier | Not immediately anyway. That's about all one can ask for. | Oct 22 00:25 |
| fewa | Venezuela helped Argentina but its way out of the oppressive IMF | Oct 22 00:25 |
| fewa | Bolivia has amazing democracy | Oct 22 00:25 |
| fewa | real democracy | Oct 22 00:26 |
| fewa | "crazy nationalist"? | Oct 22 00:26 |
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| fewa | how about George Bush? | Oct 22 00:26 |
| fewa | is he a crazy nationalist? | Oct 22 00:26 |
| fewa | invading Iraq for no reason at all | Oct 22 00:26 |
| tessier | I didn't like Bush either but as far as nationalism goes he was nothing compared to Saddam and others who have graced the pages of history books. | Oct 22 00:26 |
| tessier | I agree that invading Iraq was a huge error in judgement. | Oct 22 00:27 |
| fewa | tessier, Saddam was a puppet of the US | Oct 22 00:27 |
| fewa | "error in judgement" | Oct 22 00:27 |
| tessier | fewa: In the beginning. Not in the later years. | Oct 22 00:27 |
| fewa | tessier, yes he was | Oct 22 00:27 |
| mutx | no he as certainly a vicious dictaitor supported by the CIA though | Oct 22 00:27 |
| fewa | Clinton bouyed him with the sanctions | Oct 22 00:27 |
| fewa | kept him in power | Oct 22 00:27 |
| tessier | He sure didn't seem to do what the US or many other countries were asking of him for being a puppet. | Oct 22 00:27 |
| tessier | And how Bush has come out of it looking like an idiot and really hurt his party. | Oct 22 00:28 |
| tessier | Doesn't seem to have worked out very well for him. | Oct 22 00:28 |
| tessier | s/how/now/ | Oct 22 00:28 |
| fewa | hurt his party. | Oct 22 00:28 |
| fewa | hahahaha | Oct 22 00:28 |
| fewa | yes, he did corrupt the repus | Oct 22 00:28 |
| tessier | They lost a lot of elections. That's not usually what they want. Or do you think that is all part of his master plan? | Oct 22 00:28 |
| fewa | but they went along with it | Oct 22 00:28 |
| fewa | every step of the way | Oct 22 00:28 |
| fewa | dems too | Oct 22 00:28 |
| tessier | What will be Bush's next move towards world domination? | Oct 22 00:29 |
| fewa | and the media still gives air time to cheny | Oct 22 00:29 |
| tessier | 9/11 messed with a lot of people's heads and made it easier for them. They took advantage of the situation. To their detriment, it turned out. | Oct 22 00:29 |
| fewa | and rove | Oct 22 00:29 |
| tessier | I haven't heard from either one of them much lately. They are laying low hoping Obama doesn't sick an investigation on them. | Oct 22 00:29 |
| fewa | The state dept will not leave Iraq | Oct 22 00:29 |
| tessier | Isn't Hamas is an acronym of Harakat al Mawqawama al Islamiyya meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement" ? | Oct 22 00:29 |
| fewa | its off the table | Oct 22 00:30 |
| tessier | I don't think they should either. | Oct 22 00:30 |
| schestowitz | tessier: did you watch Year One? | Oct 22 00:30 |
| schestowitz | I've just watched it, it's a good documentary | Oct 22 00:30 |
| tessier | I'm tired of leaving other countries as failed states. Now that the US has gotten involved they should be committed to finishing it and getting Iraq back on its feet. | Oct 22 00:30 |
| tessier | schestowitz: About the Khmer Rouge? | Oct 22 00:30 |
| fewa | east timor | Oct 22 00:31 |
| fewa | tessier, the US is a failed state | Oct 22 00:31 |
| fewa | there is a chomsky book about that | Oct 22 00:32 |
| tessier | A group named "Islamic Resistance Movement" would seem to be more interested in spreading religious nuttery. | Oct 22 00:32 |
| tessier | fewa: What I'm looking at outside my window says otherwise. You must have an odd definition of a failed state. | Oct 22 00:32 |
| fewa | Failed States: The abuse of Power and the Assult on Democracy | Oct 22 00:32 |
| tessier | No, that is not the generally accepted definition. | Oct 22 00:32 |
| fewa | there is great freedom | Oct 22 00:32 |
| fewa | but there is little democracy | Oct 22 00:32 |
| fewa | the US is a rogue state | Oct 22 00:32 |
| fewa | its a good book | Oct 22 00:33 |
| schestowitz | tessier: this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9159164859238659487&ei=cIzfSpmtI5fW-Aa6jMWNDA&q=year+zero# | Oct 22 00:33 |
| schestowitz | It contains more imagery than information though | Oct 22 00:33 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Thanks, I'll check it out | Oct 22 00:33 |
| schestowitz | ANd puts blame with Kissinger and Nixon | Oct 22 00:33 |
| schestowitz | It's from around 1975 | Oct 22 00:33 |
| fewa | https://www.amazon.com/Failed-States-Assault-Democracy-American/dp/0805079122 | Oct 22 00:34 |
| schestowitz | It's all new to me... history of the wars in south east Asia | Oct 22 00:34 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_States_%28book%29 | Oct 22 00:34 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Seems that everything that has gone wrong with the world is the fault of the US government. What coincidence. If only the rest of the world could run their affairs better and not be so easily corrupted. ;) | Oct 22 00:35 |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVGZSH3X45s | Oct 22 00:35 |
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| schestowitz | tessier: nope | Oct 22 00:35 |
| tessier | Meanwhile, the Muslim world remains in disarray and confusion nearly 100 years after their failed attempt at world domination. They should have been more patient. Just 50 years later the rest of the world would be total pushovers for the Americans. | Oct 22 00:35 |
| schestowitz | There are many angles to look at | Oct 22 00:35 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Indeed. And it is far from simple. | Oct 22 00:35 |
| fewa | tessier, you should read the book, as you are proposing that the US has supreme authority to invade and interfere in "failed states" | Oct 22 00:36 |
| tessier | Yet there are lots of blanket statements being thrown around clearly pointing fingers as if were as simple as a bank robbery. | Oct 22 00:36 |
| hexx | http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=73864459-1A64-6A71-CEA2AE38572874F2 | Oct 22 00:36 |
| hexx | may find this interesting | Oct 22 00:36 |
| mutx | the US does _NOT_ have a very good record of winning wars, | Oct 22 00:36 |
| tessier | fewa: I don't propose any such thing. | Oct 22 00:36 |
| fewa | <tessier> I'm tired of leaving other countries as failed states. Now that the US has gotten involved they should be committed to finishing it and getting Iraq back on its feet. | Oct 22 00:36 |
| fewa | watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVGZSH3X45s | Oct 22 00:37 |
| tessier | mutx: Then why wasn't everyone else victorious and the US not a problem for them? | Oct 22 00:37 |
| fewa | mutx, what does it mean to "win" a war? | Oct 22 00:37 |
| mutx | gee fewa, you dont know ???? | Oct 22 00:37 |
| tessier | mutx: I mean, if the US lost a lot of wars...why the problems with other countries? Why aren't they leading happy, victorious, prosperous, free, happy lives? | Oct 22 00:37 |
| hexx | how do private message in here? | Oct 22 00:38 |
| hexx | anyone? | Oct 22 00:39 |
| mutx | they usually are, so how did the US go on the COLD war, or the war on druge, or in nam, or Iraq or | Oct 22 00:39 |
| fewa | tessier, http://www.libertarian.co.uk/lapubs/forep/forep008.pdf A Few Words on Non-Intervention | Oct 22 00:39 |
| fewa | tessier, you are arguing that they hate us for our freedom | Oct 22 00:40 |
| hexx | guys, i just want to share this article, i dont have much time | Oct 22 00:40 |
| hexx | http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=73864459-1A64-6A71-CEA2AE38572874F2 | Oct 22 00:40 |
| tessier | Non-intervention is a double-edged sword. | Oct 22 00:40 |
| fewa | such arrogence | Oct 22 00:40 |
| hexx | hope its useful, im out | Oct 22 00:40 |
| schestowitz | hexx: thanks a lot, got it | Oct 22 00:40 |
| hexx | kk, yw | Oct 22 00:40 |
| tessier | Sometimes you attack when you didn't have to (Iraq) and sometimes you sit and do nothing until there is a disaster (Pearl Harbor, 9/11). | Oct 22 00:40 |
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| fewa | they are fairly similar events actually | Oct 22 00:41 |
| fewa | both "preventative wars" | Oct 22 00:41 |
| fewa | "preventative attacks" | Oct 22 00:41 |
| fewa | one instituted by the enemy, Japan, one instituted by the good guys | Oct 22 00:41 |
| schestowitz | "preventative attacks" usually means coup | Oct 22 00:42 |
| fewa | both will live in infamy | Oct 22 00:42 |
| mutx | the CIA knew about pearl harbour, why do you all the valuable assets (aircraft carriers) were put to sea the day before ? | Oct 22 00:42 |
| fewa | pearl harbor was not a coup | Oct 22 00:42 |
| schestowitz | ANd "instability in the region" is code phrase for "we don't like what happens there" | Oct 22 00:42 |
| fewa | "stability" == obedience | Oct 22 00:42 |
| fewa | "jobs" == profits | Oct 22 00:42 |
| schestowitz | The US overthrew over 50 regimes | Oct 22 00:42 |
| schestowitz | Whether all were justified is a separate question | Oct 22 00:42 |
| fewa | Iraq had no justification | Oct 22 00:43 |
| fewa | UK | Oct 22 00:43 |
| schestowitz | But all of this was unknown to many people before information opened up a bit | Oct 22 00:43 |
| fewa | UK's involvement either | Oct 22 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Inc. history | Oct 22 00:43 |
| schestowitz | fewa: "job creation, it's all about job creation..." --Palin | Oct 22 00:43 |
| fewa | well its not always used as a euphamism | Oct 22 00:44 |
| tessier | mutx: I'm pretty sure the CIA did not know about Pearl Harbor. You seem to think they are like God or something. | Oct 22 00:44 |
| schestowitz | It's funny when talking points collide | Oct 22 00:44 |
| fewa | like "green jobs" that a very valid concept Obama was talking about | Oct 22 00:44 |
| fewa | but mearly talk | Oct 22 00:44 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Were *any* justified? | Oct 22 00:44 |
| fewa | well --- he did get in alot of weatherization money in the stimulus bill | Oct 22 00:44 |
| mutx | sorry it was hoover (FBI) not the cia. | Oct 22 00:44 |
| fewa | tessier, watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVGZSH3X45s | Oct 22 00:45 |
| tessier | The FBI knew about Pearl Harbor? If anyone it would be more likely to be the CIA. The FBI isn't set up for operations or intelligence on foreign governments. | Oct 22 00:45 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I don't know | Oct 22 00:45 |
| tessier | fewa: Seen it. He's right a bout a few things but pretty nutty on others. | Oct 22 00:46 |
| schestowitz | There needs to be a justification/defence for each | Oct 22 00:46 |
| schestowitz | And it requires a lot of convincing evidence, not just the "he's a bad guy" thing | Oct 22 00:46 |
| tessier | schestowitz: There is. It's a matter of whether you think it is valid. And there opinions differ vastly. | Oct 22 00:46 |
| tessier | schestowitz: It's funny to travel the world and get peoples opinions of stuff like this. The average person is very friendly and understanding of other countries, cultures, religions, etc. But the fact that the extremists are the only ones yelling in our faces on a daily basis can give one a weird perspective. | Oct 22 00:48 |
| fewa | tessier, not much of a response, but ok | Oct 22 00:48 |
| tessier | I bet you could take the typical Muslim and the typical Jew and put them together for tea (assuming they spoke the same language) and have a perfectly fine time. But put them both on a podium in front of TV cameras in their home countries and things go nuts. | Oct 22 00:48 |
| tessier | fewa: Not much I can say. It's not like I have Chomsky here to question. | Oct 22 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Yes, people get along usually | Oct 22 00:52 |
| schestowitz | Except those blinded by some extreme faith | Oct 22 00:52 |
| schestowitz | ANd it gets accentuated with age | Oct 22 00:52 |
| schestowitz | But anyway, all of this is intended to help learn about the present | Oct 22 00:53 |
| schestowitz | For example, the history that led to certain resentment | Oct 22 00:53 |
| schestowitz | I don't remember history I learned at school and few people do | Oct 22 00:53 |
| schestowitz | But most people do get their 'history' lessons from language and implies statements in the news | Oct 22 00:54 |
| mutx | thats because news and everything that happens is "history". | Oct 22 00:54 |
| schestowitz | Stuff like, "why do they hate us" or "<this country> is an irrational hater".. | Oct 22 00:54 |
| fewa | the propaganda | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | mutx: going a longer way back though | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | There are omissions | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | In IT, for example, MSFT does this too | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | They rewrite history | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | The likes of Enderle go about trivialising crimes | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | So younger generations forget bad behaviour | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Look at Rockefeller | Oct 22 00:55 |
| schestowitz | Look at Gates, whose violations people can hardly recall | Oct 22 00:56 |
| mutx | you cant "rewrite" history, you can only lie about it, or not say all that happend, but what happend, happend | Oct 22 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Look how fast people forget genocide of the Indians or whatever | Oct 22 00:56 |
| mutx | you cant change what actually happend, no matter how many times you say it did not. | Oct 22 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Mutiny in India too.... | Oct 22 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Even Indians probably don't know much about it | Oct 22 00:56 |
| schestowitz | mutx: playing semantics, I see... | Oct 22 00:56 |
| mutx | well if you call facts and truth semantics, then I suppose so. | Oct 22 00:57 |
| mutx | but I cant see how you can change history, but saying something did not happen or happend differently, one is history the other is fiction. | Oct 22 00:58 |
| schestowitz | History as recoreded | Oct 22 00:58 |
| schestowitz | In people's minds/literature | Oct 22 00:58 |
| schestowitz | Minds rot | Oct 22 00:58 |
| schestowitz | Literature rots more slowly | Oct 22 00:58 |
| mutx | and yet, the facts and what really happened never changes. | Oct 22 00:59 |
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| fewa | schestowitz, on genocide of the indians, that is actually a rare exception IMHO | Oct 22 01:12 |
| fewa | in the us at least | Oct 22 01:13 |
| fewa | you may be referring to east india | Oct 22 01:13 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Chief Attacks #GaryMcKinnon http://ping.fm/fPmyK | Oct 22 01:23 | |
| schestowitz | fewa: no, both places | Oct 22 01:24 |
| schestowitz | UK and European-Americans separately | Oct 22 01:24 |
| schestowitz | Just the history of genocide more or less. | Oct 22 01:24 |
| fewa | in the 60s the atrocities against american indians was celebrated | Oct 22 01:24 |
| schestowitz | We remember more recent ones and forget others. | Oct 22 01:24 |
| fewa | or simply ignored | Oct 22 01:24 |
| schestowitz | Some were total exterminations | Oct 22 01:24 |
| fewa | in the popular movements of the 60s this changed, and now it is awknowledged, at least to some degree | Oct 22 01:25 |
| fewa | and while quite severe, it was not a total extermination | Oct 22 01:25 |
| fewa | it really depends on how successful the alienation of society is | Oct 22 01:26 |
| schestowitz | That's what I read recently | Oct 22 01:26 |
| fewa | like how severe it was, and still is, in the US's south | Oct 22 01:26 |
| schestowitz | That before the 1960s in academia you could not talk about the American-Indians | Oct 22 01:26 |
| fewa | Jackson | Oct 22 01:26 |
| fewa | s trail of tears was celebrated | Oct 22 01:26 |
| fewa | or there were giant biographies of him without a single mention of it | Oct 22 01:27 |
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| fewa | where the semiole indians were moved many states to Oklahoma I believe | Oct 22 01:27 |
| fewa | this had a big role in the Spanish-American war | Oct 22 01:27 |
| fewa | because Native americans were seeking skelter in Flordia, which was spanish | Oct 22 01:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] A chemist describes in small words the insane stunt #Trafigura actually pulled on that ship http://is.gd/4uOJU #wikileaks @arusbridger | Oct 22 01:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT A chemist describes in small words the insane stunt #Trafigura actually pulled on that ship http://is.gd/4uOJU #wikileaks @arusbridger | Oct 22 01:37 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Spreads #Fear to Market Its Products http://ping.fm/i5tAO #fud | Oct 22 01:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT A chemist describes in small words the insane stunt #Trafigura actually pulled on that ship http://is.gd/4uOJU #wikileaks @arusbridger | Oct 22 01:52 | |
| tessier | From my first day at Treasury, PowerPoint decks would arrive from GM (we quickly concluded that no decision seemed to be made at GM without one) requesting approvals. We were appalled by the absence of sound analysis provided to justify these expenditures. | Oct 22 01:55 |
| tessier | http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/21/autos/auto_bailout_rattner_excerpt.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009102109 | Oct 22 01:55 |
| tessier | Reminds me of "The Cognitive Style of Powerpoint" and the Columbia accident. | Oct 22 01:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] If you are a woman in Open Source, you will eventually give a talk about being a woman in Open Source. http://j.mp/2WC31l HT @skud | Oct 22 02:04 | |
| *yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-173-64-154-25.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 02:07 | |
| yuhong | Notice the similarities between this anti-trust exhibit and these blog entries by a MS employee: | Oct 22 02:08 |
| yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/px04372_b.pdf | Oct 22 02:08 |
| yuhong | http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2004/08/13/214338.aspx | Oct 22 02:08 |
| yuhong | http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2004/08/12/213681.aspx | Oct 22 02:08 |
| yuhong | Notice the similarities? | Oct 22 02:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 is Not a Game http://ping.fm/7i5cv #windows | Oct 22 02:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Federal court throws out erotic services lawsuit against Craigslist http://ur1.ca/e59l clear §230 immunity http://ur1.ca/e59p | Oct 22 02:11 | |
| schestowitz | Hey, yuhong | Oct 22 02:15 |
| yuhong | Hey, did you notice the three links I just entered above? | Oct 22 02:16 |
| schestowitz | Funny that they write about it in 2004 | Oct 22 02:17 |
| schestowitz | Any reason? | Oct 22 02:17 |
| yuhong | Not sure, but my point is that did you notice the similarities? | Oct 22 02:17 |
| schestowitz | fewa: just posted http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/irc-log-21102009.html | Oct 22 02:18 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: I didn't look closely | Oct 22 02:18 |
| yuhong | Between this anti-trust exhibit and the blog articles. | Oct 22 02:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Heard a local radio talking about Windows 7, compared to Vista it's great, but then compared to Vista even a ZX81 looks next gen. | Oct 22 02:18 | |
| yuhong | Yep, it is funny how Larry Osterman's blog articles on AARD are similar to an email by Aaron Reynolds himself that was revealed during the anti-trust lawsuit. | Oct 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | So what can be derived from all that? | Oct 22 02:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Want to read a site with non Microsoft software solutions? Forget Windows 7 and try Linux http://openbytes.wordpress.com/ | Oct 22 02:21 | |
| yuhong | Also, read some of the comments to Larry Osterman's blog article. | Oct 22 02:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #TSA confirmation hearing http://ur1.ca/e5a3 only fields softball questions http://ur1.ca/e5a6 thinks DNA on everyone adds #security 65:30 | Oct 22 02:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 , I wonder how long it will be before Microsoft wants you to spend again on 8? | Oct 22 02:22 | |
| schestowitz | http://ubuntumanual.org/posts/253/ultimate-geek-stuff-twidge-twitter-command-line-client-for-ubuntulinux | Oct 22 02:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 sins - http://windows7sins.org/ | Oct 22 02:23 | |
| yuhong | Particularly interesting is this one: | Oct 22 02:24 |
| yuhong | http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2004/08/12/213681.aspx#214386 | Oct 22 02:24 |
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| yuhong | "One thing to keep in mind in reading the document (and I read most of it) is that there are two sets of voices quoted. One is the technical team (Phil Barrett, Aaron Reynolds, etc). And there's the management team (BradSi, etc). | Oct 22 02:24 |
| yuhong | The technical team is almost entirely pointing out valid technical reasons why running Windows on DR-DOS is a bad idea. The management team's the people who are trying to find non-technical reasons to kill DR-DOS. | Oct 22 02:24 |
| yuhong | I'm a technical guy, not a management guy (as if it's not obvious at this point). I see the technical reasons and understand them. I don't necessarily see (and I don't agree with) the non-technical reasons. " | Oct 22 02:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #TSA confirmation hearing http://ur1.ca/e5a3 only fields softball questions http://ur1.ca/e5a6 uncandidly asks for DNA on all citizens 65:30 | Oct 22 02:24 | |
| *tessier (n=treed@216.105.40.113) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 02:25 | |
| schestowitz | yuhong: BradSi is a criminal | Oct 22 02:25 |
| yuhong | I know. | Oct 22 02:26 |
| schestowitz | I'm surprised he's still out there in Ignition Partners and stuff | Oct 22 02:26 |
| schestowitz | He's responsible for many of Microsoft's offences | Oct 22 02:26 |
| schestowitz | Including the anti-DR stuff | Oct 22 02:26 |
| schestowitz | not just AARD | Oct 22 02:26 |
| yuhong | Larry Osterman was not, and he was not even on the Windows team. | Oct 22 02:26 |
| schestowitz | Google "brad silverberg" | Oct 22 02:27 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure he's familiar with BN by now | Oct 22 02:27 |
| schestowitz | He thought he left his trash behind in the past | Oct 22 02:27 |
| *aishumythili (i=75c1e6bb@gateway/web/freenode/x-dqajonhtmrjygjpt) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 02:27 | |
| schestowitz | He knows what he Did Last Summer(TM) | Oct 22 02:28 |
| yuhong | "Did Last Summer(TM)" funny. | Oct 22 02:29 |
| schestowitz | BTW, I was surprised to find another white-collar criminal, Carl Icahn, in the latest news about the bankers' robbery | Oct 22 02:29 |
| yuhong | And on PSI and T3, do you remember Amdhel? | Oct 22 02:29 |
| yuhong | The vendor of IBM mainframe clones. | Oct 22 02:29 |
| schestowitz | Revenge time for I.B.M.; http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/IBM-Promotes-Ubuntu-Based-Cloud-Solution-in-U.S | Oct 22 02:30 |
| schestowitz | A day or so before Vista 7 | Oct 22 02:31 |
| schestowitz | IBM's Sutor called for Ubuntu launch parties to foil MS's | Oct 22 02:31 |
| yuhong | Yep, I recently linked to IBM's MS free initiave response to Win7. | Oct 22 02:31 |
| schestowitz | Google will make bis announcement tomorrow | Oct 22 02:31 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft to deliver results 10PM GMT | Oct 22 02:31 |
| yuhong | But my point is what T3 is doing now has some precedent. | Oct 22 02:32 |
| schestowitz | http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2009/10/gobolinux.html | Oct 22 02:32 |
| fewa | http://liebermanmustgo.com/ | Oct 22 02:33 |
| yuhong | And that precedent existed long before MS even existed. | Oct 22 02:34 |
| yuhong | When IBM was considered evil. | Oct 22 02:34 |
| yuhong | Now they are mostly reformed and the 31-bit to 64-bit transition in 2000 killed Amdhal and Hitachi who decided not to clone the new architecture. | Oct 22 02:35 |
| yuhong | Yes, IBM mainframes moved to 64-bit back in 2000. | Oct 22 02:36 |
| *DaemonFC (i=Ryan@69.245.242.208) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 02:38 | |
| yuhong | And 31-bit is NOT a typo. | Oct 22 02:39 |
| fewa | lol | Oct 22 02:41 |
| schestowitz | [02:34] <yuhong> When IBM was considered evil. | Oct 22 02:41 |
| schestowitz | was? | Oct 22 02:41 |
| yuhong | Yes, it was the subject of anti-trust probes for years, and that long before ms even existed. | Oct 22 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: AMD and Nvidia are saying there will be at least 20 DirectX 11 titles out before second quarter of 2010 | Oct 22 02:44 |
| yuhong | For example, look at the 1956 consent decree against IBM. | Oct 22 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | I'm thinking they'll have to include some DirectX 9/10 support in those though | Oct 22 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | XP and Vista usage share is going to be a factor, and the XBOX 360 only understands DirectX 9 and a subset of 10 | Oct 22 02:44 |
| schestowitz | FPS boredom | Oct 22 02:45 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft should be about ready to show off a new console anyway within 1-2 years | Oct 22 02:45 |
| yuhong | Yep, fortunately most games and graphic cards are backward compatible. | Oct 22 02:45 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: no money to spare | Oct 22 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | yuhong, They can fall back to DirectX 9 and only use 10 and 11 as a superset | Oct 22 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | they've done that to accomodate XP users in the past | Oct 22 02:46 |
| yuhong | A good book on this is "Big Blue: IBM's Use and Abuse of Power" from 1986. | Oct 22 02:46 |
| yuhong | DaemonFC: That is exactly what I said. | Oct 22 02:47 |
| yuhong | http://www.amazon.com/Big-Blue-IBMs-Abuse-Power/dp/0396085156 | Oct 22 02:47 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/21/how-does-bing-rank-tweets I'm sure users of 'the bong' (both of them) will be curious abut this | Oct 22 02:47 |
| JPerlow | wow, I go out for dinner and suddenly the channel gets interesting | Oct 22 02:48 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: what topic? | Oct 22 02:48 |
| schestowitz | IBM antitrust? | Oct 22 02:48 |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@166.199.67.173) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 02:48 | |
| JPerlow | reading the entire log, roy | Oct 22 02:48 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: it's not a "was" | Oct 22 02:48 |
| schestowitz | They are problematic in different ways, still | Oct 22 02:48 |
| schestowitz | Like swpat lobby | Oct 22 02:48 |
| yuhong | I know. | Oct 22 02:49 |
| schestowitz | They also have a sort of monopoly on console chips | Oct 22 02:49 |
| yuhong | And my point that the T3 lawsuit had some precedent that existed long before MS even existed. | Oct 22 02:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/21/googles-panoramio-gets-an-iphone-app | Oct 22 02:50 |
| yuhong | When IBM was truly the evil monopolist. | Oct 22 02:50 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw's analysis of mysql is quite paranoid IMHO | Oct 22 02:50 |
| schestowitz | "RMS withstanding" | Oct 22 02:50 |
| schestowitz | As in, "let's conveniently ignore him" | Oct 22 02:51 |
| schestowitz | ALso, Asay is not in cahoots with the Vole | Oct 22 02:51 |
| JPerlow | who the hell is the Vole? | Oct 22 02:51 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vole | Oct 22 02:51 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vole_%28Star_Trek%29#Cardassian_vole | Oct 22 02:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&q=inquirer+vole&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8 | Oct 22 02:52 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inquirer#Nicknames_and_terminology | Oct 22 02:52 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 22 02:52 |
| JPerlow | why don't you just say Microsoft? | Oct 22 02:52 |
| schestowitz | # | Oct 22 02:52 |
| schestowitz | # PR Bunny (also known as Spin Paramedic) - a Spin Doctor | Oct 22 02:52 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 22 02:52 |
| schestowitz | It's funnier the way INQ says it | Oct 22 02:53 |
| schestowitz | "# Open Sauce - Open Source" | Oct 22 02:53 |
| schestowitz | "# Chipzilla - Intel, coined by Terry Shannon, as known as Charlie Matco [25]" | Oct 22 02:53 |
| schestowitz | "# Chimpzilla - AMD" | Oct 22 02:53 |
| schestowitz | "# Mozzarella Foundation - Mozilla Foundation" | Oct 22 02:53 |
| schestowitz | Haha! | Oct 22 02:53 |
| schestowitz | It's always funny | Oct 22 02:53 |
| yuhong | Funny! | Oct 22 02:54 |
| JPerlow | a german with a sense of humor, how unique | Oct 22 02:54 |
| schestowitz | INQ is British | Oct 22 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Mike | Oct 22 02:54 |
| yuhong | Funny indeed. | Oct 22 02:54 |
| fewa | Fox news is in a halarous position | Oct 22 02:55 |
| JPerlow | I was referring to you. :) | Oct 22 02:55 |
| fewa | they are against the administratior | Oct 22 02:55 |
| fewa | and the administration is looking to boycott them | Oct 22 02:55 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Magee_%28journalist%29 | Oct 22 02:55 |
| schestowitz | fewa: boycott Fox? | Oct 22 02:56 |
| *aishumythili has quit ("Page closed") | Oct 22 02:56 | |
| fewa | boycott news wise | Oct 22 02:56 |
| fewa | no interviews | Oct 22 02:56 |
| schestowitz | Ah.. | Oct 22 02:56 |
| fewa | as the media is highly reliant on the government for news | Oct 22 02:56 |
| schestowitz | That would be like "boycotting rape" | Oct 22 02:56 |
| yuhong | Anyway, my point is that the issues T3 raised existed long before MS even existed. | Oct 22 02:57 |
| fewa | lol, 30 senators voted for rape | Oct 22 02:57 |
| schestowitz | With Fox there needn't be an explicit embargo | Oct 22 02:57 |
| fewa | did you see that schestowitz ? | Oct 22 02:57 |
| schestowitz | It's funny how Fox brings people in only to shout at them | Oct 22 02:57 |
| schestowitz | fewa: /for/ rape? | Oct 22 02:57 |
| fewa | http://www.alternet.org/blogs/healthwellness/143164/30_gop_senators_vote_to_defend_gang_rape/ | Oct 22 02:57 |
| fewa | 30 GOP Senators Vote to Defend Gang Rape | Oct 22 02:57 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Oct 22 02:57 |
| schestowitz | What is this, Congo? | Oct 22 02:57 |
| schestowitz | Oh. | Oct 22 02:58 |
| schestowitz | Merceneries | Oct 22 02:58 |
| fewa | a military contractor put in a line in the contract that supposedly said that if you were gang rape you couldn't sue | Oct 22 02:58 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, beat me to it | Oct 22 02:58 |
| fewa | and Al Franken proposed a ban on the practice | Oct 22 02:58 |
| schestowitz | Not as the headline suggests | Oct 22 02:58 |
| fewa | as this women was gang raped | Oct 22 02:58 |
| fewa | and was told she couldn't sue | Oct 22 02:58 |
| yuhong | And, BTW, to this day I still wonder what would happen if IBM was able to license CP/M-86 from Digital Research back in 1980. | Oct 22 02:58 |
| fewa | thats the type of contract tyranny | Oct 22 02:58 |
| fewa | why contracts are not a panacea | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Here are those who vote to protect a corporation over a victim of rape: | Oct 22 02:59 |
| JPerlow | yuhong: I suppose I'd still be using Visicalc. | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Alexander (R-TN) | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Barrasso (R-WY) | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Bond (R-MO) | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Brownback (R-KS) | Oct 22 02:59 |
| fewa | Daily show had a halarous segment on it | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Not the same as them suggesting legalising rape | Oct 22 02:59 |
| yuhong | I mean, back in 1980, IBM was the evil monopolist. | Oct 22 02:59 |
| fewa | where the senator argued that it wasn't the government's business meddling in government contracts | Oct 22 02:59 |
| schestowitz | Just them "supporting the troops" | Oct 22 02:59 |
| fewa | LOLOL | Oct 22 03:00 |
| schestowitz | yuhong: yes, ESR wrote about it | Oct 22 03:00 |
| JPerlow | back in 1980 I was playing 4-bit video games on my atari 2600. | Oct 22 03:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/I/IBM.html | Oct 22 03:00 |
| schestowitz | How many cores? :-D | Oct 22 03:01 |
| schestowitz | How to even address memory....? | Oct 22 03:01 |
| JPerlow | and Cylons were cylons and not attractive blondes. | Oct 22 03:01 |
| yuhong | And the fact that MS ended up having to buy SCP 86-DOS and license that to IBM was how MS got it's monopoly in the first place. | Oct 22 03:02 |
| yuhong | Which is why to this day I still wonder what would happen if IBM was able to license CP/M-86 from Digital Research back in 1980. | Oct 22 03:02 |
| JPerlow | I liked CP/M, I ran it on my Apple ][. | Oct 22 03:03 |
| yuhong | I know, remember the MS Softcard? | Oct 22 03:03 |
| JPerlow | yep, had one. | Oct 22 03:03 |
| JPerlow | and 80 column card | Oct 22 03:03 |
| JPerlow | so I could run wordstar and visicalc. | Oct 22 03:04 |
| yuhong | Funny how IBM inadvently caused another monopolist to emerge. | Oct 22 03:04 |
| JPerlow | yuhong, are you based out of NYC? | Oct 22 03:05 |
| yuhong | No, I am far from it. | Oct 22 03:05 |
| yuhong | See my previous IRC logs. | Oct 22 03:05 |
| JPerlow | I saw your verizon.net ident, I figured NY metro area. | Oct 22 03:06 |
| schestowitz | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091014/1831246537.shtml News Corp Lawyer: Aggregators Steal From Us! News Corp: Hey Check Out Our Aggregator! | Oct 22 03:06 |
| schestowitz | JPerlow: more near MS HQ | Oct 22 03:07 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Oct 22 03:07 |
| JPerlow | I didnt know verizon had pops out in seattle | Oct 22 03:07 |
| yuhong | But I have never visited it so far. | Oct 22 03:07 |
| JPerlow | Its a cool campus. | Oct 22 03:07 |
| JPerlow | free Starbucks. | Oct 22 03:08 |
| schestowitz | Old-School Beetle Runs on Batteries and Biodiesel http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/biodiesel-hybrid-bu/ | Oct 22 03:08 |
| yuhong | And on TechFlash, they were the ones who broke out the news about Steve Ballmer smashing an iPhone. | Oct 22 03:08 |
| schestowitz | Threatening to | Oct 22 03:08 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Oct 22 03:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-tech/offtheshelf-expedition-takes-flight-20091014-gw6o.html | Oct 22 03:09 |
| schestowitz | fewa: Fox News isn't even pretending anymore < http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/10/15/fox_news/index.html > | Oct 22 03:09 |
| fewa | but they are against the administration | Oct 22 03:10 |
| fewa | that is much harder to do than just parrot the administration like they did the last 8 years | Oct 22 03:10 |
| fewa | shows that there is alot of money and interests in keeping the practices of the past administration and holding back the current one | Oct 22 03:10 |
| yuhong | Shoreline, Washington to be more precise. | Oct 22 03:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another impossibly skinny Ralph Lauren model http://ping.fm/34gjS #starvation #RalphLauren #diet | Oct 22 03:11 | |
| fewa | and also shows the difference between the state and corporate/media sectors | Oct 22 03:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Verizon-Ringtones-Hit-Sour-Note-for-ASCAP-690325/ | Oct 22 03:13 |
| fewa | perhaps | Oct 22 03:13 |
| JPerlow | the pacific northwest is nice. I like going out there when I get the chance. | Oct 22 03:14 |
| schestowitz | Garth Brooks Complains That The Gov't Ignores Musicians http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091015/1836306554.shtml | Oct 22 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Why would Garth Brooks care? He's not a musician. | Oct 22 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Oct 22 03:15 |
| schestowitz | "The phrase is believed[citation needed] to have originated from an event that was said to have taken place in AD 867: Viking pirates from Sjaelland and Uppsala landed in Scotland and raided the monastery of Coldingham. When news of the raid reached Aebbe the Younger (the Mother Superior), she gathered her nuns together and urged them to disfigure themselves, so that they might be unappealing to the Vikings" | Oct 22 03:18 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face | Oct 22 03:18 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: he's OK | Oct 22 03:19 |
| schestowitz | Good voice | Oct 22 03:19 |
| schestowitz | I actually found this good voice in the SXSW collection | Oct 22 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | he's apparently more of an idiot/asshole than I had him figured for | Oct 22 03:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.tomhickox.com/Site/Tom_Hickox_2009.htmlhttp://www.tomhickox.com/Site/Tom_Hickox_2009.html | Oct 22 03:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.tomhickox.com/Site/Tom_Hickox_2009.html | Oct 22 03:19 |
| yuhong | http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/01/antitrust-letters-doj/ | Oct 22 03:20 |
| schestowitz | Oops. Here's a video of his leading song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYfmS0Z3dyQ | Oct 22 03:20 |
| schestowitz | It's one of those who are still marketing themselves in MySpace | Oct 22 03:20 |
| yuhong | Still my favorite explaination of why MS ended up being so evil. | Oct 22 03:20 |
| yuhong | Look at the "ENTER THE DUNGEON" section in particular. | Oct 22 03:22 |
| schestowitz | http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/10/helios-project-forms-alliance.html | Oct 22 03:22 |
| schestowitz | Symbian has just lost a key person | Oct 22 03:22 |
| schestowitz | Swissdisk suffers spectacular cloud snafu http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/19/swissdisk_failure/ | Oct 22 03:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] SFC: "U.S. citizens wrongly detained, deported by ICE" http://ping.fm/eOEoB | Oct 22 03:24 | |
| schestowitz | "America’s infrastructure is crumbling. The Highway Trust Fund, which finances the maintenance of our congested highways, flirts with insolvency. Innovative transit plans languish. And what is the government doing about it?" http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/transportation-bill-2/ | Oct 22 03:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bold words: "Fox News isn't just bad. It's un-American. " http://ping.fm/JENTq | Oct 22 03:26 | |
| JPerlow | I find fox news entertaining. | Oct 22 03:27 |
| JPerlow | much as I view this channel | Oct 22 03:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fun gallery: Gallery: 10 Cars Way Too Far Ahead of Their Time < http://ping.fm/GU0eL > | Oct 22 03:28 | |
| schestowitz | The 7 deadly sins of Windows 7 http://tech.yahoo.com/news/infoworld/20091019/tc_infoworld/96036 | Oct 22 03:28 |
| JPerlow | wow, randall definitely isnt getting any christmas cards from microsoft this year | Oct 22 03:30 |
| *yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.0.14/2009090216]") | Oct 22 03:30 | |
| JPerlow | http://io9.com/5286145/a-harvard-psychiatrist-explains-zombie-neurobiology | Oct 22 03:30 |
| JPerlow | best thing i read all week. | Oct 22 03:31 |
| schestowitz | randall got kicked out | Oct 22 03:31 |
| schestowitz | "I receive an e-mail from Julie McCormick at Waggener Edstrom in which she extends a "special save-the-date" invitation to attend a "unique, invitation-only" event being hosted by the Windows Client team. She labels the subject matter as "confidential"..." | Oct 22 03:31 |
| schestowitz | http://weblog.infoworld.com/enterprisedesktop/archives/2008/10/blacklisted_by.html | Oct 22 03:31 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I still want XP back | Oct 22 03:32 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really like Vista, never have | Oct 22 03:32 |
| JPerlow | The Windows Client team hates my guts | Oct 22 03:32 |
| DaemonFC | my system is more than enough for it, but it just feels wrong | Oct 22 03:33 |
| JPerlow | but the server team loves me. bipolar company. | Oct 22 03:33 |
| schestowitz | That zombie thing is for the "I want to believe" vrows | Oct 22 03:33 |
| schestowitz | *crowd | Oct 22 03:33 |
| JPerlow | oh cmon, brilliant stuff. | Oct 22 03:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Dell has just called Windows Vista "a bust", in public | Oct 22 03:35 | |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8319624.stm | Oct 22 03:37 |
| JPerlow | they also called the Itanium "an albatross" | Oct 22 03:38 |
| JPerlow | lol | Oct 22 03:38 |
| JPerlow | that was my personal fave | Oct 22 03:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/21/citrix_q3_2010_numbers/ | Oct 22 03:41 |
| JPerlow | he should spell Julie's name properly | Oct 22 03:42 |
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| schestowitz | The press totally 'forgets' to cover outlook of Microsoft results tomorrow | Oct 22 03:46 |
| schestowitz | I've tried many searches in Google News, but nothing comes up | Oct 22 03:47 |
| schestowitz | They extinguished the bad news using a decoy | Oct 22 03:47 |
| schestowitz | Ah! | Oct 22 03:47 |
| schestowitz | Found one, finally | Oct 22 03:47 |
| schestowitz | 1 hour ago: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iA93dRmJirBIZ5ACJFiLdZ_m00iwD9BFRFK80 | Oct 22 03:47 |
| JPerlow | roy I seriously doubt the press will forget anything if the next 3 months turn out to be a bust in terms of sale of durable goods. | Oct 22 03:48 |
| JPerlow | and we probably won't know the full extent of WIn 7 retail sales for at least 3 months | Oct 22 03:50 |
| JPerlow | if not more | Oct 22 03:50 |
| JPerlow | since all the windows 7 adoption planned at large enterprises is likely to occur in Q2 2010 | Oct 22 03:51 |
| JPerlow | or later | Oct 22 03:51 |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: lot of enterprises are looking at going sideways. | Oct 22 03:52 |
| oiaohm | Virtualize what they have and migrate. | Oct 22 03:52 |
| JPerlow | depends on the maturity level. | Oct 22 03:53 |
| oiaohm | IBM and Orcale looking at providing solutions to make it simple JPerlow | Oct 22 03:54 |
| JPerlow | really? I had no idea IBM did that. | Oct 22 03:54 |
| JPerlow | lol | Oct 22 03:54 |
| oiaohm | There is a key stone missing for major effect. Samba with ADS. | Oct 22 03:55 |
| JPerlow | not really. | Oct 22 03:55 |
| JPerlow | Centrify and Likewise are decent and mature products. | Oct 22 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Likewise depends on the existance of a ADS server JPerlow | Oct 22 03:56 |
| JPerlow | SAMBA4 really isnt high performance enough to be used as a identity managment solution. | Oct 22 03:56 |
| oiaohm | ADS is not only in SAMBA4 JPerlow | Oct 22 03:56 |
| JPerlow | yes, but both those products are much faster than Winbind/Samba4. | Oct 22 03:56 |
| oiaohm | Samba 3.5 will contain it as well. | Oct 22 03:56 |
| JPerlow | still slower. | Oct 22 03:56 |
| JPerlow | much slower. | Oct 22 03:57 |
| JPerlow | not when you are dealing with domains of users greater than 5000. | Oct 22 03:57 |
| oiaohm | Both still depend on the existance of a ADS server. | Oct 22 03:57 |
| JPerlow | yeah, so what's your point? | Oct 22 03:57 |
| oiaohm | likewise linking can be used with a samba ads server. | Oct 22 03:58 |
| JPerlow | Which is slow. | Oct 22 03:58 |
| oiaohm | Same with Centrify | Oct 22 03:58 |
| oiaohm | any ideas why it slow JPerlow | Oct 22 03:58 |
| oiaohm | You don't have to look too far JPerlow | Oct 22 03:59 |
| JPerlow | a number of architectual reasons, but you'd have to ask Jeremy. | Oct 22 03:59 |
| oiaohm | Major one is complier | Oct 22 03:59 |
| JPerlow | I suspect that at some point, with all the interoperability stuff that is published, Samba4's AD controller will be at parity with Microsoft | Oct 22 03:59 |
| JPerlow | probably within 2 or 3 years. | Oct 22 04:00 |
| oiaohm | Nothing to do with the samba code base JPerlow | Oct 22 04:00 |
| oiaohm | Same reason a lot of other large complex programs are slow. | Oct 22 04:00 |
| JPerlow | um, yeah it does. | Oct 22 04:00 |
| JPerlow | they have to fully implement everything in the published specs. | Oct 22 04:00 |
| JPerlow | they havent, yet. | Oct 22 04:00 |
| oiaohm | If you have build sambe with link time optimisations you would know its not as slow as you think. | Oct 22 04:01 |
| JPerlow | I would rather not waste my time and go with a commercial product with excellent tech support and high performance | Oct 22 04:02 |
| JPerlow | if AD integration was a concern | Oct 22 04:02 |
| JPerlow | otherwise, there are other ID management solutions out there that do not depend on AD. | Oct 22 04:03 |
| oiaohm | clustering works with samba 3.5 with ADS. | Oct 22 04:03 |
| JPerlow | oaiohm are you a reactos developer? | Oct 22 04:04 |
| *Balrog_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 22 04:04 | |
| oiaohm | never submited code there JPerlow | Oct 22 04:04 |
| oiaohm | I do know its code base JPerlow | Oct 22 04:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] October 23rd Brings Bad News for #Microsoft http://ping.fm/gAf0m #decline #stealthunder | Oct 22 04:04 | |
| JPerlow | well, I see you are on the channel, so I was curious. | Oct 22 04:04 |
| JPerlow | I havent spoken to those guys in a while. | Oct 22 04:05 |
| oiaohm | I have voice there due to a dispute between me and alex ion over secuirty design of windows. There are a few things different inside the reactos kernel for secuirty reasons. | Oct 22 04:05 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9360 "I’ve been playing with the Windows 7 Build 7000 (Beta 1) for several days now, and I’ve come to the conclusion that like Vista, it’s not a major improvement over what most users are currently experiencing with Windows XP, and is at best only a slight improvement over Vista SP1. In a number of cases, I think they’ve gone even further down the user rejection hole." | Oct 22 04:06 |
| schestowitz | But suddenly he sounds excited | Oct 22 04:06 |
| schestowitz | A little self-contradictory, IMHO | Oct 22 04:06 |
| JPerlow | no, not really. | Oct 22 04:06 |
| schestowitz | gn | Oct 22 04:06 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 04:06 | |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: also samba 3.5 ads binds onto a standard LDAP server. So allowing other access solutions to be used for Linux and Mac machines without issue. | Oct 22 04:07 |
| JPerlow | I think that Windows 7 is at best the Vista that end-users were promised 2 years ago. | Oct 22 04:07 |
| JPerlow | and anyone who purchased Vista should get 7 for free. | Oct 22 04:07 |
| JPerlow | or minimal media plus shipping costs, something analagous to what apple did with snow leopard. | Oct 22 04:07 |
| JPerlow | which will be the focus of my coverage next week after everyone else has had their say. | Oct 22 04:08 |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: MS is not in a place to give a OS away for nothing. | Oct 22 04:08 |
| JPerlow | I'm sure they could engender a tremendous amount of good will by providing Windows 7 at least at similar costs to Snow Leopard to existing vista users | Oct 22 04:09 |
| ThistleWeb | it is interesting how many "news" people claim Windows is the "best selling", when they never "sell" Windows, they sell licences to use Windows under certain restrictions | Oct 22 04:09 |
| JPerlow | no, they sell windows. | Oct 22 04:09 |
| JPerlow | they most certainly do, especially to large enterprises. | Oct 22 04:10 |
| ThistleWeb | in the eula, they cleraly state it's not a sale, it's a licence | Oct 22 04:10 |
| JPerlow | it's an entitlement, yes | Oct 22 04:10 |
| ThistleWeb | they got caught out in tax evasion accusations in India until part of their eula was read out in court | Oct 22 04:10 |
| ThistleWeb | they claimed it was a sale to get a lower tax rate | Oct 22 04:11 |
| ThistleWeb | where the eula said the exact opposite | Oct 22 04:11 |
| ThistleWeb | they also like to count pre-installed PCs as a "sale" or someone "choosing Windows" when they have no choice | Oct 22 04:12 |
| JPerlow | Thistle, do you honestly beleive that the average end user would "choose" an OS if given the opportunity? | Oct 22 04:13 |
| ThistleWeb | just as they counted all PCs installed with Vista, then downgraded because peeps hated Vista, as Vista sales, even though they left the store as XP | Oct 22 04:13 |
| ThistleWeb | they choose a PC, so they have some idea of their needs and can compare side by side instore | Oct 22 04:14 |
| ThistleWeb | if that choice also includes OS's then yes | Oct 22 04:14 |
| JPerlow | so in your ideal world, you'd give them either Linux or Windows as a choice then, when buying a PC. | Oct 22 04:14 |
| ThistleWeb | specially if MS are forced to display the added cost of Windows as part of the PC | Oct 22 04:14 |
| ThistleWeb | yes | Oct 22 04:15 |
| JPerlow | you're not addressing the cost to the manufacturer to support tht OS. | Oct 22 04:15 |
| JPerlow | if we gave users a choice of Windows or Linux, then which Linux? | Oct 22 04:15 |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL5iPKTzXAE | Oct 22 04:15 |
| ThistleWeb | ubuntu has the mommentum, so use that | Oct 22 04:15 |
| ThistleWeb | windows is ONE option as an OS | Oct 22 04:16 |
| JPerlow | and what about all the plugins and things users expect for certain functionality with certain perpipherals, etc? If they don't work? | Oct 22 04:16 |
| fewa | Ubuntu | Oct 22 04:16 |
| ThistleWeb | it's also a chargable extra onto the PC price | Oct 22 04:16 |
| fewa | either GNOME or KDE doesn't matter | Oct 22 04:16 |
| fewa | works right ou tof the box | Oct 22 04:17 |
| fewa | far better than Windows | Oct 22 04:17 |
| JPerlow | how much money do you think it costs Dell to integrate Ubuntu into preloads? | Oct 22 04:17 |
| fewa | and new software is less than 2 minutes away, and totally secure | Oct 22 04:17 |
| JPerlow | do you really think Canonical is giving Dell subsidies to do that? | Oct 22 04:18 |
| JPerlow | in substantial amounts? | Oct 22 04:18 |
| ThistleWeb | depends how many hardware vendors have been duped into making their stuff too reliant on windows | Oct 22 04:18 |
| JPerlow | at best Dell can support Ubuntu on a few models | Oct 22 04:18 |
| ThistleWeb | if they make or use crippled hardware it's their own fault | Oct 22 04:18 |
| JPerlow | if we were talking about giving Ubuntu preloads across the board, we'd be talking about a huge amount of labor and QA involved. | Oct 22 04:19 |
| ThistleWeb | which means jobs | Oct 22 04:19 |
| ThistleWeb | in a time of increasing unemployment, this would be a good thing no? | Oct 22 04:19 |
| JPerlow | even if suddenly all OSes were to be virtualized on chip, you'd still have to provide a lot of integration support | Oct 22 04:19 |
| JPerlow | the demand would have to exist for Dell to justify that. | Oct 22 04:20 |
| ThistleWeb | or the laws to force them | Oct 22 04:20 |
| ThistleWeb | why just Dell? | Oct 22 04:20 |
| JPerlow | I'm putting one manufacturer as an example. | Oct 22 04:20 |
| ThistleWeb | people can choose the hardware options they want to suit their needs | Oct 22 04:20 |
| JPerlow | assume all of the Tier 1s and Tier 2s would have to do that. | Oct 22 04:21 |
| ThistleWeb | but not the OS | Oct 22 04:21 |
| ThistleWeb | yet it's only one option | Oct 22 04:21 |
| ThistleWeb | even those who know about that and want another option are told they have to buy something they never intend to use, which adds to the price | Oct 22 04:22 |
| ThistleWeb | the people are not told it's a paid part of the package | Oct 22 04:22 |
| JPerlow | the entire ecosystem has to change and more people need to be exposed to linux to make that practical. | Oct 22 04:22 |
| ThistleWeb | that their PC can be cheaper without it | Oct 22 04:23 |
| ThistleWeb | not to mention more secure and more stable | Oct 22 04:23 |
| JPerlow | there are still entire groups of people where Linux would not be an ideal environment for them | Oct 22 04:23 |
| ThistleWeb | what I'd like to see, is OEM Windows installs be a 30 day trial version. Where the customer buys as key for whatever edition they want as an extra, either at the time of sale, or within that 30 days | Oct 22 04:24 |
| ThistleWeb | so they can have a multiple choice of eiditons to try for the 30 days | Oct 22 04:24 |
| ThistleWeb | try ultimate, see if their hardware is fine with it, if they need the extra features | Oct 22 04:25 |
| ThistleWeb | if they want to buy one, they enter their bought key and it unlocks | Oct 22 04:25 |
| JPerlow | it's a nice idea from the perspective of a FOSS advocate but it doesnt make sense to 90 percent of the people out there buying PCs. | Oct 22 04:25 |
| ThistleWeb | 30 day trial ends....all the options grey out, other than enter the key part | Oct 22 04:25 |
| ThistleWeb | why not, they're used to trial ware crap, their PC comes infested with it | Oct 22 04:26 |
| ThistleWeb | norton | Oct 22 04:26 |
| ThistleWeb | macafe | Oct 22 04:26 |
| ThistleWeb | works | Oct 22 04:26 |
| JPerlow | umm | Oct 22 04:26 |
| ThistleWeb | they've been well trained that software has a trial date | Oct 22 04:26 |
| ThistleWeb | and they have to pay to keep using it | Oct 22 04:26 |
| JPerlow | you completely underestimate the level of ignorance in your typical end user. | Oct 22 04:26 |
| JPerlow | I know a lot of users that let their virus software that comes with their PC time bomb out, and then have no protection | Oct 22 04:27 |
| ThistleWeb | in that case, why do companys pay to have that stuff put on? If it's not successful? | Oct 22 04:27 |
| JPerlow | because they dont understand what the time out messages mean. | Oct 22 04:27 |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: percentages. | Oct 22 04:27 |
| JPerlow | what makes you think they wouldnt ignore the messages from windows? | Oct 22 04:27 |
| ThistleWeb | in some cases, like service that can be true | Oct 22 04:27 |
| oiaohm | Even the percent that let it fail still a lot of profit. | Oct 22 04:27 |
| ThistleWeb | in apps like photoshop they can't NOT notice | Oct 22 04:28 |
| JPerlow | and then suddenly their OS stops working correctly and they get angry. | Oct 22 04:28 |
| ThistleWeb | when the trial runs out, it wont run beyond that screen telling them | Oct 22 04:28 |
| JPerlow | would never fly with the manufacturers. | Oct 22 04:28 |
| ThistleWeb | thats where the sale people will have to tell them, the OS is extra | Oct 22 04:28 |
| ThistleWeb | that you have to buy a nice neato sticker with a number on it | Oct 22 04:28 |
| mutx | they dont tell them the CPU is extra or the RAM, | Oct 22 04:29 |
| mutx | they dont give you a one month trial of AMD or INTEL for you to choose. | Oct 22 04:29 |
| JPerlow | lol | Oct 22 04:29 |
| ThistleWeb | no, it's listed in the bundle, but they can choose which cpu and ram to get | Oct 22 04:29 |
| ThistleWeb | if you want intel, you look for a bundle with intel | Oct 22 04:29 |
| ThistleWeb | if you think intel are scumbags and want to use amd you can | Oct 22 04:29 |
| JPerlow | thistle you have no idea how what average end user who buys retail computers expects when they open the box and fire it up | Oct 22 04:30 |
| JPerlow | they expect to be spoon fed and they expect it all to work. | Oct 22 04:30 |
| ThistleWeb | yes, something which works well, and is going to continue to work well for a while | Oct 22 04:30 |
| JPerlow | and the average end user has no idea what the difference between AMD and Intel is. | Oct 22 04:30 |
| ThistleWeb | instead they get something that's gonna get infected the first chance it gets | Oct 22 04:30 |
| mutx | or xp and vista for that matter | Oct 22 04:31 |
| JPerlow | at best, they see "2.4Ghz dual core, 4GB ram 500GB HD, 15 inch LCD" | Oct 22 04:31 |
| ThistleWeb | something which has to be rebooted at every turn | Oct 22 04:31 |
| JPerlow | and they run their hands over it and decide if they like the looks of it | Oct 22 04:31 |
| JPerlow | thats how most people buy computers | Oct 22 04:31 |
| ThistleWeb | then let OS's be part of that visual decision making process | Oct 22 04:31 |
| JPerlow | retarded. | Oct 22 04:32 |
| ThistleWeb | linux with compiz will draw many more eyeballs than aero | Oct 22 04:32 |
| oiaohm | More and more machines are appearing hybred. | Oct 22 04:32 |
| oiaohm | Part Linux Part Windows. | Oct 22 04:32 |
| JPerlow | if they've ben using windows for any period of time they want what they know. | Oct 22 04:32 |
| ThistleWeb | then let them CHOOSE windows | Oct 22 04:32 |
| ThistleWeb | while knowing its not free (cost) | Oct 22 04:33 |
| ThistleWeb | let them vote with their wallets | Oct 22 04:33 |
| mutx | they do | Oct 22 04:33 |
| ThistleWeb | they buy a PC | Oct 22 04:33 |
| JPerlow | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11197 | Oct 22 04:33 |
| ThistleWeb | they dont buy windows | Oct 22 04:33 |
| ThistleWeb | windows just comes with it | Oct 22 04:33 |
| JPerlow | for any of these "groups" I point out to have any effect at the initial time of purchase the vendor itself has to be willing to invest resources to support Linux | Oct 22 04:34 |
| ThistleWeb | if MS are so convinced that people are desperate for their stuff, they should have no fear of the customer being offered alternate options | Oct 22 04:34 |
| JPerlow | resources = time and money | Oct 22 04:34 |
| mutx | so what is the difference between that an choosing between maxtor and winchester Harddrives. | Oct 22 04:34 |
| ThistleWeb | which means jobs | Oct 22 04:34 |
| JPerlow | thistle: THEY DONT WANT TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE | Oct 22 04:35 |
| mutx | you generally get what your given, and it meets the market expectation. | Oct 22 04:35 |
| JPerlow | they want to simplify their operations | Oct 22 04:35 |
| JPerlow | scale down | Oct 22 04:35 |
| JPerlow | as it is, its a low margin business that has become commoditized | Oct 22 04:35 |
| mutx | what company offerers alternatives to itself ? | Oct 22 04:35 |
| ThistleWeb | the whole point of the capitalist system is that competition keeps prices in check, that the customer can vote with their wallets | Oct 22 04:35 |
| JPerlow | they can | Oct 22 04:36 |
| JPerlow | unfortunately, they dont vote with wallets | Oct 22 04:36 |
| ThistleWeb | when you have an entire indusrty deciding to unify around a few common vendors, it reduces choice | Oct 22 04:36 |
| mutx | and the system works. | Oct 22 04:36 |
| ThistleWeb | the customer has more and more limits on how they can choose to spend | Oct 22 04:36 |
| JPerlow | they vote on price, aesthetics and what they know, and not based on intensive research | Oct 22 04:36 |
| mutx | reduces but not eliminates. | Oct 22 04:36 |
| JPerlow | they walk into retail stores and see the shiny thing they like and buy it. | Oct 22 04:37 |
| ThistleWeb | what if they all decided to unify around putting seagate hard drives in new pcs | Oct 22 04:37 |
| oiaohm | Why is the question either Linux or Windows JPerlow | Oct 22 04:37 |
| JPerlow | they arent IT people. | Oct 22 04:37 |
| oiaohm | it does not have to be | Oct 22 04:37 |
| ThistleWeb | what if you had bad experiences with seagate | Oct 22 04:37 |
| ThistleWeb | you choose to buy non-seagate | Oct 22 04:37 |
| JPerlow | how the hell would you know if it was a seagate or not? | Oct 22 04:37 |
| ThistleWeb | but you cant in a new pc, because they all use seagate | Oct 22 04:37 |
| oiaohm | Problem I have I have had issues all drive makers. | Oct 22 04:37 |
| oiaohm | I buy drives based on support system. | Oct 22 04:38 |
| JPerlow | actually, my dell came with a WD. | Oct 22 04:38 |
| mutx | and if I have a bad experience with company x I can choose company apple or company Red Hat, or company Ubuntu and so on. | Oct 22 04:38 |
| mutx | where is my choice limited ? | Oct 22 04:38 |
| ThistleWeb | what if seagate deside to cut costs by making their hard drives windows only | Oct 22 04:38 |
| ThistleWeb | and all new pcs come with them | Oct 22 04:38 |
| JPerlow | your choice is going to become more and more limitec | Oct 22 04:38 |
| ThistleWeb | becuse unifying is supposedly a good thing | Oct 22 04:38 |
| oiaohm | Been done ThistleWeb | Oct 22 04:39 |
| mutx | what if Mac's decided to cut cost and make their OSX only for Macs. | Oct 22 04:39 |
| JPerlow | because more component vendors are failing | Oct 22 04:39 |
| oiaohm | Drives did not sell to well ThistleWeb | Oct 22 04:39 |
| JPerlow | and the companies will consolidate | Oct 22 04:39 |
| ThistleWeb | the other vendors only have home builders to sell to | Oct 22 04:39 |
| JPerlow | this is a retarded conversation. | Oct 22 04:39 |
| mutx | like apple ? | Oct 22 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is a monopoly in the true spirit of the word | Oct 22 04:40 |
| ThistleWeb | the point is, when you start to thin down the choices the customer has, you may as well privatise the entire process | Oct 22 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | no credible competition lets them do anything they want | Oct 22 04:40 |
| JPerlow | this is like the monty python argument sketch | Oct 22 04:40 |
| JPerlow | except it never ends | Oct 22 04:40 |
| mutx | is that MS's fault DeamnoFC ? | Oct 22 04:40 |
| oiaohm | Yes it is mutx | Oct 22 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | any company would do the same thing in the absense of credible competition | Oct 22 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | *absence | Oct 22 04:41 |
| oiaohm | MS Dos age if you wanted MS dos on your machines you had to agree only to sell MS Dos | Oct 22 04:41 |
| mutx | that no one is able to compete with MS, even though many other companies were doing OS's way before MS did. | Oct 22 04:41 |
| ThistleWeb | I understand why employees of companies wouldn't want customers to be educated and given a choice, as it screws their tatic of profiting from confusion | Oct 22 04:41 |
| oiaohm | Or pay MS even for machines that did not include MS DOS. | Oct 22 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | mutx, There's always been a few also-rans | Oct 22 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | most went out of business, some limp on as a niche | Oct 22 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | some thrive as a niche (Apple) | Oct 22 04:41 |
| oiaohm | MS made the current monopoly they hae no mutx | Oct 22 04:41 |
| oiaohm | Now. | Oct 22 04:42 |
| oiaohm | In the process destroying competition | Oct 22 04:42 |
| mutx | Like comodore pet, TRS-80, and many many others, all before DOS and MS, all gone now. | Oct 22 04:42 |
| oiaohm | Even the likes of DR Dos and other dos releations got destroyed the were just too expensive. | Oct 22 04:42 |
| oiaohm | Due to MS actions. | Oct 22 04:42 |
| oiaohm | Fragments of compeition are returning to the market. | Oct 22 04:43 |
| oiaohm | People forget when MS won the battle with other DOS's they over night quaded the price. | Oct 22 04:44 |
| ThistleWeb | I watched the movie Speed Racer yesterday, it it struck me the parallels with Microsoft and Novell, in the two corporate criminal enterprises in the movie | Oct 22 04:44 |
| ThistleWeb | rig races, serve bogus IP lawsuits etc | Oct 22 04:45 |
| ThistleWeb | all I thought of was Microsoft | Oct 22 04:45 |
| ThistleWeb | "if you don't sign that contract, your team will be served with IP lawsuits, you will never finish the race etc" | Oct 22 04:46 |
| oiaohm | When you really audit need in a lot of businesses Windows is really not required. | Oct 22 04:46 |
| oiaohm | Or if it is required it can be picked up by shared virtualisation. | Oct 22 04:46 |
| mutx | if got my november issue 1980 of "INTERFACE AGE", a computer magazine from the US it's very interesting to see all the computer companies, the OS's they use, and the products (and price) and the fact that Microsoft is not even mentioned at all in it. | Oct 22 04:46 |
| mutx | oh yes, and all the software for their apps are listed and printed out, therefore being Open source, but with no licence restrictions. | Oct 22 04:49 |
| oiaohm | Closed source is really a alien thing to the software world came latter and stuck around. | Oct 22 04:50 |
| fewa | I see my predictions about JPerlow were correct | Oct 22 04:51 |
| fewa | <JPerlow> this is a retarded conversation. | Oct 22 04:51 |
| fewa | yes, and you started it right? | Oct 22 04:51 |
| mutx | in fact in 1980, in that mags advertiser index, MS is not mentinoed at all. | Oct 22 04:52 |
| fewa | a not-so-sophisticated pro-Microsofter | Oct 22 04:53 |
| JPerlow | pro-microsofter | Oct 22 04:53 |
| JPerlow | thats an interesting term to describe me | Oct 22 04:53 |
| ThistleWeb | you did make your aligencies rather obvious | Oct 22 04:54 |
| fewa | a under miner of free and open source | Oct 22 04:54 |
| ThistleWeb | "customers should have choice of everything, as long as it comes with a windows install and they get some money from it" | Oct 22 04:55 |
| JPerlow | really, how do I make my allegiances to Microsoft obvious? how did you figure it out? | Oct 22 04:55 |
| ThistleWeb | dude, read your training manuals, they're bound to have examples of how others have given themselves away | Oct 22 04:57 |
| fewa | JPerlow made his opposition to free software clear here http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/wp-mobile.php?p=11266 | Oct 22 04:59 |
| JPerlow | I see, so you know everything about my background then. | Oct 22 04:59 |
| JPerlow | I have a firm disagreement with the fundamentals of the FSF. | Oct 22 04:59 |
| JPerlow | I am an Open Source proponent. | Oct 22 04:59 |
| fewa | hmm, thats also Microsoft's official position | Oct 22 05:00 |
| ThistleWeb | I disagree with the tones of some of the campaigns the FSF do, but broadly agree with their aims | Oct 22 05:00 |
| JPerlow | yes, but I have also had the benefit of being on the staff of a Linux print publication for almost 10 years. | Oct 22 05:01 |
| ThistleWeb | all you've done here is try to defend the status quo | Oct 22 05:01 |
| fewa | Yes, the post by JPerlow wasn't neccicarily wrong, but it did show who JPerlow doesn't like | Oct 22 05:01 |
| JPerlow | I do not agree with the FSF. Neither do a LOT of people invovled with the Open Source movement from the perspective of the Open Source definition. | Oct 22 05:02 |
| ThistleWeb | no doubt if vendors unified around linux, you'd be complaining about a lack of diversity] | Oct 22 05:02 |
| JPerlow | actually, I do not want diversity in Linux. | Oct 22 05:02 |
| fewa | JPerlow seems to be at war with copyleft | Oct 22 05:02 |
| fewa | the keeping of software free | Oct 22 05:02 |
| ThistleWeb | some people have a rebooting fetish that linux just does not meet | Oct 22 05:02 |
| oiaohm | Now that is where you have a problem JPerlow diversity is part of the system. | Oct 22 05:02 |
| fewa | and prevention of making propritary off-shoots | Oct 22 05:02 |
| ThistleWeb | some people like the thrill of having yet another infection to hunt down and remove | Oct 22 05:03 |
| JPerlow | I feel quite strongly we have too many distributions and we also have too many open source licenses. | Oct 22 05:03 |
| ThistleWeb | some people like paying for that privilidge | Oct 22 05:03 |
| fewa | JPerlow, the strict open source definition is very good | Oct 22 05:03 |
| oiaohm | JPerlow: how many real distributions do you think there are. | Oct 22 05:03 |
| JPerlow | I also feel increasingly that the GPL may be the wrong path for open source developers to take. | Oct 22 05:03 |
| fewa | it is essentially the Debian Free Software Guidelines | Oct 22 05:03 |
| oiaohm | There is less than 20 JPerlow | Oct 22 05:04 |
| JPerlow | That is still too many. | Oct 22 05:04 |
| oiaohm | Most of the others are no different to windows slipstreaming. | Oct 22 05:04 |
| fewa | JPerlow, MS-PL, MS-LPL ? | Oct 22 05:04 |
| fewa | instead of just using MIT or BSD | Oct 22 05:04 |
| oiaohm | You are aware that Open source threw out history goes threw divide and merge cycles JPerlow | Oct 22 05:05 |
| fewa | I think it depends on the developer | Oct 22 05:05 |
| JPerlow | I have not done enough due diligence to determine what licenses we should pursue. I like Asay's and others suggestions that Apache may be a good alternative. | Oct 22 05:05 |
| oiaohm | We are currently in a Merge cycle in a lot of ways. | Oct 22 05:05 |
| oiaohm | Like debian going duel kernel. Linux and FreeBSD. | Oct 22 05:05 |
| fewa | This is a great essay on why to use the GPL http://www.zedshaw.com/blog/2009-07-13.html | Oct 22 05:05 |
| ThistleWeb | the GPL is what protects it from companies like Microsoft and Apple | Oct 22 05:05 |
| fewa | The GPL is an amazing instrument because it really uses copyright law | Oct 22 05:06 |
| JPerlow | fewa, if you continue to try to put words into my mouth I'm simply going to mute you. | Oct 22 05:06 |
| ThistleWeb | if corps ran their businesses with a pinch of ethics and fairness, they wouldn't need that protection | Oct 22 05:06 |
| fewa | it is the only licence that actually streches the monopoly rights congress grants | Oct 22 05:06 |
| JPerlow | I dont have discussions with irrational and uncivil people. | Oct 22 05:06 |
| fewa | and puts that power firmly in the hands of the author, not the publisher or large corperation | Oct 22 05:07 |
| ThistleWeb | uncivil? | Oct 22 05:07 |
| fewa | just like the creative commons licences do for artists | Oct 22 05:07 |
| ThistleWeb | irrational? | Oct 22 05:07 |
| fewa | they give artists a real strong bargaining position | Oct 22 05:07 |
| oiaohm | The current core distributions are Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora most of the others don't rebuilds of them or are a blood releation to 1 of these 3. | Oct 22 05:07 |
| ThistleWeb | ahh, I get it, the troll starts the accusations to divert | Oct 22 05:07 |
| mutx | the GPL put's your copyright in the hands of the FSF. | Oct 22 05:07 |
| fewa | and Brazil has recommended that their copyright system be based on creative commons | Oct 22 05:07 |
| oiaohm | I really don't see where three competing is a major problem JPerlow | Oct 22 05:08 |
| JPerlow | I see the only three distributions for end users as Ubuntu and OpenSUSE. | Oct 22 05:08 |
| fewa | GPL does this: http://www.zedshaw.com/blog/2009-07-13.html and this: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/ | Oct 22 05:08 |
| JPerlow | and possibly other ubuntu derivatives. | Oct 22 05:09 |
| fewa | It firmly gives the user power | Oct 22 05:09 |
| ThistleWeb | so "too much choice" comes down to "ubuntu and opensuse" | Oct 22 05:09 |
| fewa | and the author | Oct 22 05:09 |
| fewa | instead of the distributer, the middle man, the corporation | Oct 22 05:09 |
| ThistleWeb | wow, we have a true socialist in our midst. You can't be trusted to choose for yourself, so we're gonna make that choice for your own good. Welcome to Windows | Oct 22 05:10 |
| oiaohm | You will see a little more debian. Mostly due to stablity problems with ubuntu a few netbook distributions are changing accross JPerlow | Oct 22 05:10 |
| fewa | ThistleWeb, exactly | Oct 22 05:10 |
| JPerlow | debian is primarily an embedded distribution | Oct 22 05:11 |
| fewa | GPL is choice | Oct 22 05:11 |
| ThistleWeb | you can choose the hardware you want, but we'll decide your OS | Oct 22 05:11 |
| oiaohm | Like how many expermental OS's has MS made JPerlow | Oct 22 05:11 |
| JPerlow | as a code foundry its fine, for end users its impractical. | Oct 22 05:11 |
| oiaohm | The list is long. | Oct 22 05:11 |
| fewa | the freedom of your fist ends at my face | Oct 22 05:11 |
| fewa | thats what the GPL does | Oct 22 05:11 |
| oiaohm | The dividing provides a location to try ideas without effecting everyone. | Oct 22 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Now when the best ideas are found merging normally happens. | Oct 22 05:12 |
| JPerlow | after midnight here. | Oct 22 05:12 |
| oiaohm | This cycle repeats over and over again in open source. | Oct 22 05:12 |
| ThistleWeb | that "we'll choose for you, instead of educating you to make your own choices" also reaches into MS's secuirty issues in IE too | Oct 22 05:12 |
| JPerlow | conference calls early in the am. Talk to you guys later. :) | Oct 22 05:12 |
| fewa | and by keeping it open source you prevent dark ages | Oct 22 05:12 |
| ThistleWeb | stuff enebaled to just run, so the customer is never bothered with a question about do they want it to run | Oct 22 05:13 |
| oiaohm | List of items that have merged in the last 12 months include a common systray. | Oct 22 05:13 |
| ThistleWeb | it just runs because MS told it to | Oct 22 05:13 |
| oiaohm | MS hates Linux because it is used as leavage against them. | Oct 22 05:13 |
| fewa | MS-LPL: you can only run this on Windows | Oct 22 05:14 |
| ThistleWeb | let's piss him off by dropping the subject, since that seemed to be his intent....come in, stir us up then leave | Oct 22 05:14 |
| fewa | well im not that riled up | Oct 22 05:14 |
| JPerlow | um, no its midnight. | Oct 22 05:14 |
| JPerlow | and I work for a living. | Oct 22 05:14 |
| fewa | you just have to explain yourself | Oct 22 05:14 |
| JPerlow | and I require sleep. | Oct 22 05:14 |
| ThistleWeb | yep, say hi to Steve for us | Oct 22 05:14 |
| JPerlow | Steve? | Oct 22 05:14 |
| JPerlow | no, my boss is named Sam. | Oct 22 05:14 |
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| fewa | when you bring up the fact that MS releases sham open source that is only allowed to run on Windows(tm) for example | Oct 22 05:15 |
| oiaohm | Read it closer fewa | Oct 22 05:15 |
| mutx | what sham open source, can only run on windows ? | Oct 22 05:15 |
| oiaohm | You must keep a version that runs on Windows. | Oct 22 05:15 |
| oiaohm | MS-LPL can have versions for Linux. | Oct 22 05:16 |
| fewa | still a stilt | Oct 22 05:16 |
| oiaohm | But still is suxs. | Oct 22 05:16 |
| ThistleWeb | it's codeplex that insists on only running on windows | Oct 22 05:16 |
| fewa | these are rational goals for the Microsoft corporation | Oct 22 05:16 |
| oiaohm | codeplex does host some Linux running programs. | Oct 22 05:16 |
| ThistleWeb | I think the ms-lpl can be used on anything, though I doubt any project who wanted any credibility as cross platform would use it | Oct 22 05:17 |
| oiaohm | But you must have windows version. | Oct 22 05:17 |
| fewa | they have a rational desire to increase the mindshare of the Win32 API, along the same inititives as laid out in Comes v Microsoft | Oct 22 05:17 |
| fewa | and planning documents long ago | Oct 22 05:17 |
| fewa | its just not open source | Oct 22 05:17 |
| fewa | and these goals conflict with free and open source software's aim to preserve the freedom to innovate on all platforms | Oct 22 05:18 |
| fewa | and in doing do, usually render most layers of the system commodities | Oct 22 05:18 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm : codeplex does host some Linux running programs. << for some reason my mind jumped to "porting malware to Linux | Oct 22 05:18 |
| ThistleWeb | seems like the kinda thing they'd love to do if they could get away with it | Oct 22 05:18 |
| fewa | Microsoft's actions are not irrational, but they are destructive | Oct 22 05:19 |
| oiaohm | http://openblade.codeplex.com/ I forget there are a few pure Linux programs on codeplex | Oct 22 05:19 |
| fewa | and damaging to innovation | Oct 22 05:19 |
| oiaohm | MS could not keep them out. | Oct 22 05:19 |
| oiaohm | Also gpl. | Oct 22 05:19 |
| fewa | like the code Microsoft realized it was violating the GPL | Oct 22 05:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] PHILLIES!!! Good job, now let's repeat it!!! | Oct 22 05:19 | |
| ThistleWeb | I reckon MS see their "open source" as windows only, free devs, where they control the project | Oct 22 05:20 |
| fewa | ThistleWeb, exactly | Oct 22 05:20 |
| fewa | ive talked with them | Oct 22 05:20 |
| fewa | they say that Microsoft has embraced open source | Oct 22 05:20 |
| fewa | I ask them: for whom? | Oct 22 05:20 |
| ThistleWeb | designed to further their platform without paying out for the work | Oct 22 05:20 |
| fewa | is Windows open source? | Oct 22 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Gets worse MS though they could dump care of that code on Novell. | Oct 22 05:20 |
| fewa | will it be before hell freezes over? | Oct 22 05:20 |
| oiaohm | One time Novell showed some back bone. | Oct 22 05:21 |
| oiaohm | and told MS to basically stick it. | Oct 22 05:21 |
| fewa | it seems redundant in usualy MS fashion | Oct 22 05:21 |
| oiaohm | So now we have 2 MS payed coders working on the Linux kernel. | Oct 22 05:21 |
| fewa | why cant they use the KVM virtio drivers? | Oct 22 05:21 |
| fewa | /interfaces | Oct 22 05:22 |
| oiaohm | Thinking MS hypvervisor is a blood releation to Xen that MS double crossed. | Oct 22 05:22 |
| oiaohm | KVM and XEN are kinda oposed to each other. | Oct 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | You are asking the wrong question fewa | Oct 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | Why cannot MS hyperversor and Xen use the same interfaces. | Oct 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | Is the question you were looking for. Answer MS being a ass hole. | Oct 22 05:23 |
| fewa | well anyways, either | Oct 22 05:23 |
| fewa | KVM really is better | Oct 22 05:23 |
| fewa | because it only requires only one driver | Oct 22 05:24 |
| fewa | for each piece of hardware | Oct 22 05:24 |
| oiaohm | SUN also has a hyperversor based of Xen yet its been able to share drivers. | Oct 22 05:24 |
| fewa | Xen just recreates all the problems of BIOS's all over again | Oct 22 05:25 |
| oiaohm | Xen has some techical merits over KVM fewa | Oct 22 05:25 |
| fewa | just a mess | Oct 22 05:25 |
| oiaohm | and KVM has a few techical merits of Xen. | Oct 22 05:25 |
| fewa | they should port the Xen user-space tools to the KVM kernel interface | Oct 22 05:25 |
| oiaohm | horses for courses. | Oct 22 05:25 |
| fewa | and dump Xen | Oct 22 05:25 |
| oiaohm | It is no the Userspace tools fewa | Oct 22 05:25 |
| oiaohm | it the way Xen is constructed. | Oct 22 05:26 |
| oiaohm | vs the way kvm is constructed. | Oct 22 05:26 |
| fewa | meh | Oct 22 05:26 |
| fewa | I think KVM is better, | Oct 22 05:26 |
| oiaohm | There are advantages and disadvantages to both designed. | Oct 22 05:26 |
| fewa | one device, one driver | Oct 22 05:26 |
| fewa | people thought a BIOS would be good, a standard API, etc | Oct 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Xen allows more isolulation. | Oct 22 05:27 |
| fewa | only caused problems | Oct 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Than KVM | Oct 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | But more isoluation also has its price. | Oct 22 05:27 |
| fewa | I don't see why a stripped down linux kernel cant do everything a xen microkernel cant do | Oct 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | because a striped down linux kernel is still larger than the xen kernel. | Oct 22 05:28 |
| fewa | I don't accept the wasted driver model | Oct 22 05:28 |
| mutx | a striped down monolithic kernel != microkernel. | Oct 22 05:28 |
| fewa | oiaohm, and a small BIOS is smaller than real stuff | Oct 22 05:28 |
| oiaohm | And contains more functionality that what is need in the isoluation core. | Oct 22 05:28 |
| fewa | The KVM is just so much more elegent | Oct 22 05:29 |
| fewa | because of the driver problems | Oct 22 05:29 |
| fewa | 1 device 1 driver | Oct 22 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Remember I said horses for courses. | Oct 22 05:29 |
| oiaohm | For things like phones where a secound OS must not be incontact with another OS threw any means Xen style is better. | Oct 22 05:29 |
| fewa | thats why MS wanted to control Xen | Oct 22 05:29 |
| oiaohm | For your general desktop virtualisation KVM is better. | Oct 22 05:30 |
| oiaohm | Server room it gets interesting to say the least and you have big mothers of fights over if XEN or KVM should be used. | Oct 22 05:30 |
| fewa | KVM==better :P | Oct 22 05:31 |
| mutx | who uses virtualisation in the server room ? and what for ? | Oct 22 05:32 |
| oiaohm | Mostly so you can transfer running servers from one machine to another while you do upgrades mutx | Oct 22 05:32 |
| fewa | mutx==troll | Oct 22 05:32 |
| oiaohm | MS licencing becomes a little bit of a pain in but there too. | Oct 22 05:33 |
| mutx | fewa why do you think im a troll? | Oct 22 05:33 |
| oiaohm | KVM also supports KSM that allows memory to be compressed in 2.6.32 kernel coming out and that might be the killer blow to Xen in the server room. | Oct 22 05:34 |
| oiaohm | More virtual servers less ram required. | Oct 22 05:34 |
| oiaohm | I am also looking forwared to http://code.google.com/p/compcache/ that might make it into 2.6.33 kernel. | Oct 22 05:35 |
| fewa | interesting | Oct 22 05:39 |
| fewa | but lots of overhead right | Oct 22 05:39 |
| fewa | is it nearly as element as tmpfs? | Oct 22 05:39 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the workload. | Oct 22 05:39 |
| fewa | *elegent | Oct 22 05:39 |
| oiaohm | Some work loads the swap access costs more than the compress and decompression. | Oct 22 05:39 |
| fewa | exactly | Oct 22 05:40 |
| oiaohm | Also if you are completely out of ram like the livecd | Oct 22 05:40 |
| oiaohm | its a help. | Oct 22 05:40 |
| fewa | tmpfs is really efficient | Oct 22 05:40 |
| oiaohm | compcache is also working on using compressed on drive swap. | Oct 22 05:40 |
| oiaohm | Now that could get really intestesting to say the least. | Oct 22 05:41 |
| oiaohm | Also part of compcache operation is finding duplicate pages the same when sending to swap fewa | Oct 22 05:42 |
| oiaohm | So pages just filled with zeros never end up sent to swap. | Oct 22 05:42 |
| fewa | http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=blob;f=fs/ramfs/inode.c;h=a6090aa1a7c138e31fd71eb3b99b8f9c3cbc6ab4;hb=d995053d045d777e78ba7eba71a6a0733f3aa726 | Oct 22 05:43 |
| fewa | dead simple | Oct 22 05:43 |
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| oiaohm | The disk from of compcache might be useful with suspend to disk too fewa | Oct 22 05:45 |
| fewa | when i last upgraded my kernel suspend to ram worked | Oct 22 05:48 |
| fewa | so i was happy :P | Oct 22 05:48 |
| fewa | http://lwn.net/Articles/334649/ | Oct 22 05:53 |
| tessier | oiaohm: I agree. Ability to overcommit memory is killer. | Oct 22 06:06 |
| tessier | oiaohm: I'm just concerned about the speed of kvm. | Oct 22 06:06 |
| tessier | kvm fits better with the selinux security model etc also. | Oct 22 06:06 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Letter to the European Commission opposing Oracle's acquisition of MySQL http://tr.im/CCpx | Oct 22 06:12 | |
| oiaohm | tessier: speed tests between kvm and xen don't show much difference. | Oct 22 06:22 |
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| tessier | oiaohm: How much is not much? | Oct 22 06:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Microsoft bets on Windows success - How many more paid stories will we see on the BBC? http://tinyurl.com/yk9spar | Oct 22 06:49 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] "it's not like consumers have a range of operating system choices from Microsoft" - IDG http://tinyurl.com/yf4gezk | Oct 22 07:02 | |
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| oiaohm | tessier: I would have to look it up. Last one I saw some cases kvm won some case xen won ie dead close. | Oct 22 07:32 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Nice reply from Rory Cellan-Jones to my somewhat ranty blog post yesterday. Thanks @ruskin147 http://bit.ly/34tMW5 | Oct 22 09:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Alan Grayson fulfills his oath of office to protect the #constitution http://ur1.ca/e5y5 inc ban on bills of attainder http://ur1.ca/e5ye | Oct 22 09:42 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 beats Harry Potter? http://tinyurl.com/yjuvxsb #windows #microsoft #xp #vista windows 7 | Oct 22 09:50 | |
| schestowitz | The New (New) Mediaconomy http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/haque/2009/10/the_new_new_mediaconomy.html | Oct 22 09:51 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab: spam problem? http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-190808/firm-monster-s-provides-an-effective-and-strategy-to-improve-business-campaign | Oct 22 09:58 |
| schestowitz | FOSS supporter passes away. http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.refondation.org%2Fblog%2F1930%2Ffrancis-muguet-nous-a-quittes&sl=fr&tl=en&hist | Oct 22 10:00 |
| schestowitz | fewa: http://www.prwatch.org/PublicOptionEssential | Oct 22 10:02 |
| fewa | maine has some of the best campaign finance laws in the country. Not sure if it applys to federal elections | Oct 22 10:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | yay maine | Oct 22 10:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no it probably doesnt | Oct 22 10:03 |
| fewa | well, the same system as what change-congress +lessig has been behind | Oct 22 10:05 |
| schestowitz | Court upholds verdict against tobacco firms http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/15/BAPS1A6BAL.DTL | Oct 22 10:05 |
| schestowitz | "Armey's FreedomWorks organization has fired up grass-roots opposition to President Barack Obama's health reform proposals, promoted town hall demonstrations and organized a giant anti-Obama D.C. march and rally in the nation's Capitol. That has put the 69-year-old Armey right where he wants to be: in the middle of the fight for the same conservative principles that have animated him since he was a farmer's son in South Dakota. " | Oct 22 10:06 |
| schestowitz | http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6672886.html | Oct 22 10:06 |
| fewa | Sweden has no campaign finance laws and manages to have a great democracy | Oct 22 10:07 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_ap_intimations_of_politico.php | Oct 22 10:08 |
| schestowitz | prwatch: "Another Reason to Worry: The Associated Press' New "Standard" for "News" Is Popularity" | Oct 22 10:08 |
| schestowitz | AstroTurf for dam: Another Reason to Worry: The Associated Press' New "Standard" for "News" Is Popularity | Oct 22 10:09 |
| schestowitz | Oops. http://www.patagoniatimes.cl/index.php/20091019914/News/Political-News/CHILE-PATAGONIA-SENATE-CANDIDATES-UNHAPPY-WITH-HIDROAYSEN-DAM-PROJECTS.html | Oct 22 10:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2009/10/20/2009-10-20_court_papers_give_glimpse_of_bernie_madoffs_life_behind_bars.html | Oct 22 10:10 |
| schestowitz | Pro-Stronger Copyright Propaganda Shows Up In Canadian Press http://techdirt.com/articles/20091021/0252526618.shtml | Oct 22 10:12 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/5049652420 "RT @jamie_love I have asked Barnes and Noble if the Nook supports text to speech. >>excellent question #nook" | Oct 22 10:16 |
| fewa | In other countries they at least treat the reader as smarted | Oct 22 10:21 |
| fewa | in the US there is all this "theft" bullshit | Oct 22 10:21 |
| fewa | even when the SCOTUS declared otherwise | Oct 22 10:21 |
| schestowitz | We will be billions of dollars poorer when coral dies http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18000-we-will-be-billions-of-dollars-poorer-when-coral-dies.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news | Oct 22 10:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody New research on aquaculture industry reveals murky waters surrounding fish-feed issue - http://bit.ly/2O6kn8 | Oct 22 10:36 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/3290 | Oct 22 10:37 |
| schestowitz | fewa: Counting the hidden ($120 billion) cost of US energy economy http://arstechnica.com/science/news/2009/10/counting-the-hidden-120-billion-cost-of-us-energy-economy.ars?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss | Oct 22 10:37 |
| fewa | of course | Oct 22 10:38 |
| schestowitz | fewa: externalities | Oct 22 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Make a Local Backup Of Your Gmail Account http://howto.wired.com/wiki/Make_a_Local_Back_Up_Of_Your_Gmail_Account | Oct 22 10:40 |
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| fewa | externalities are everywhere | Oct 22 10:40 |
| schestowitz | I had a colleague who had her gmail emptied one day | Oct 22 10:40 |
| fewa | externalities are probably larger than pricipals | Oct 22 10:40 |
| schestowitz | Work E_mail too | Oct 22 10:40 |
| schestowitz | fewa: usually sent offshore though | Oct 22 10:41 |
| fewa | on average | Oct 22 10:41 |
| schestowitz | As in Nike at all | Oct 22 10:41 |
| schestowitz | *and | Oct 22 10:41 |
| fewa | im only talking economics | Oct 22 10:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes, that | Oct 22 10:41 |
| schestowitz | A lot of the time cost is deferred | Oct 22 10:41 |
| schestowitz | Like pollution or loans | Oct 22 10:42 |
| schestowitz | The US is said to be in a debt of up to $55 tr | Oct 22 10:42 |
| fewa | the external revenue effect of actions is probably, on average, larger than the nominal revenue of the transaction | Oct 22 10:42 |
| schestowitz | While bankers receive massive bonuses for taking these loans and making money from thin air | Oct 22 10:42 |
| fewa | ask some economist you knwothat | Oct 22 10:42 |
| fewa | its an interesting question | Oct 22 10:42 |
| fewa | schestowitz, those are not externalities | Oct 22 10:42 |
| schestowitz | Six Years of Patch Tuesdays http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/six_years_of_pa.html | Oct 22 10:42 |
| schestowitz | fewa: I know, it's different | Oct 22 10:43 |
| schestowitz | But it's like living on drugs | Oct 22 10:43 |
| fewa | yes it is | Oct 22 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Much worse when the sobering up comes | Oct 22 10:43 |
| schestowitz | And they keep taking more pills, e.g. bailout | Oct 22 10:43 |
| fewa | and if externalities dwarf principals, which they probably do, it would point to a destablizing and break market ideas | Oct 22 10:43 |
| fewa | could be a real interesting study | Oct 22 10:44 |
| schestowitz | CMS news project: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8628 (Help Us Bust the Banksters; Join Our New Campaign) | Oct 22 10:44 |
| fewa | sure you could write a fascinating paper on it | Oct 22 10:44 |
| schestowitz | "The Banksters have pulled off the biggest heist of all time. They have crashed the global economy, throwing 7.5 million Americans out of work, emptying retirement and college funds and forcing many into hardship and homelessness. Yet they continue to be rewarded with trillions of taxpayer dollars that underwrite their Bankster bonuses, they prey upon the vulnerable with ballooning bank fees and macabre investment schemes such as " | Oct 22 10:44 |
| schestowitz | death bonds" and their taxpayer-subsidized lobbyists swarm Capitol Hill to prevent the passage of any meaningful reform of the financial system." | Oct 22 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | /s/CMS/CMD/ | Oct 22 10:44 |
| fewa | and this is only 1st generation externalities | Oct 22 10:44 |
| fewa | this is why libertarianism doesn't work | Oct 22 10:45 |
| fewa | even on strict economic sense | Oct 22 10:45 |
| fewa | there must be regulation to control externalities | Oct 22 10:45 |
| fewa | everything i read focusses on the externalities effect in a rational market | Oct 22 10:46 |
| fewa | and only on the viability of the transaction | Oct 22 10:46 |
| fewa | its the wrong question | Oct 22 10:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem with libertarianism is they think the market is rational | Oct 22 10:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not | Oct 22 10:46 |
| fewa | exactly | Oct 22 10:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | but the irrationality must be protected | Oct 22 10:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | so their outcome is the same | Oct 22 10:47 |
| fewa | Stiglitz won his nobel prize for that | Oct 22 10:47 |
| fewa | information assymtry | Oct 22 10:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: well | Oct 22 10:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem is | Oct 22 10:47 |
| fewa | even _if_ every market action is rational, the market does not work | Oct 22 10:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | we only need laws to stop people who think outside of the box | Oct 22 10:47 |
| fewa | *every market actor | Oct 22 10:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | I know a lot of libertarians would yell at me for saying this, but I'm right | Oct 22 10:48 |
| fewa | because one side, the incumbant, has more knowledge than the other side | Oct 22 10:48 |
| fewa | it is rational not to read a 100-page morgage document | Oct 22 10:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | for example, any bank who received a bailout played outside of the nominal rules set forth by society | Oct 22 10:48 |
| fewa | long legal documents are a waste of time | Oct 22 10:48 |
| *zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|Away | Oct 22 10:48 | |
| fewa | add extrenous transaction costs | Oct 22 10:48 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, yes | Oct 22 10:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | the US government really should seize bank assets and sell auction them off to force them to repay the entire amount immediately | Oct 22 10:48 |
| fewa | thats called bill of attainder | Oct 22 10:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and then start arresting anyone who played ball with the Fed | Oct 22 10:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | I actually agree with Ron Paul on killing the Fed | Oct 22 10:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | the Fed does not play within the same rules everyone else does | Oct 22 10:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | ergo, its dangerous | Oct 22 10:49 |
| fewa | if the fed is run correctly it could work, but it is corrupt | Oct 22 10:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | the fed isn't corrupt in that sense | Oct 22 10:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | the fed was designed to work exactly as it is now | Oct 22 10:50 |
| fewa | And I dont see it getting fixed | Oct 22 10:50 |
| fewa | the problem is leverage | Oct 22 10:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | "it isn't broken" | Oct 22 10:50 |
| fewa | and bust and boom | Oct 22 10:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem is, banks should quit doing business with the fed | Oct 22 10:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | if I started a bank, I wouldn't. | Oct 22 10:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not profitable | Oct 22 10:51 |
| fewa | the fed should not extend credit to foreigners | Oct 22 10:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: yes and no | Oct 22 10:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | the government should, the fed itself shouldn't on it's own | Oct 22 10:51 |
| fewa | 3,000 for each person in New Zealand | Oct 22 10:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have no problem with congress itself loaning actual real money to foreign nations | Oct 22 10:51 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 10:51 | |
| fewa | yes, it has to be by congress | Oct 22 10:51 |
| fewa | that is in the constitution | Oct 22 10:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have a problem with them loading fake money, or the fed doing it on it's own | Oct 22 10:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | the real problem here is the fed can create money | Oct 22 10:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean _actually_ create money | Oct 22 10:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | as opposed to just grease the gears of the economy | Oct 22 10:52 |
| fewa | so can the banks | Oct 22 10:52 |
| fewa | the reserve requirements are very low | Oct 22 10:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | the banks "can't" | Oct 22 10:52 |
| fewa | fractional reserve banking | Oct 22 10:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | the problem is the banks shouldn't even allowed to foreclose on people | Oct 22 10:52 |
| fewa | and derivitives to increase leverage | Oct 22 10:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | they banks can't prove the money they loaned was actually real | Oct 22 10:53 |
| fewa | "credit default swaps" | Oct 22 10:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: bingo | Oct 22 10:53 |
| fewa | and the repeal of Sarbanes-Oxley | Oct 22 10:53 |
| fewa | which seperated investment firms from banks | Oct 22 10:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | the property they have mortgages on should be seized from the banks and given back to the owners | Oct 22 10:53 |
| fewa | set up a firewall | Oct 22 10:53 |
| fewa | congress should have given $700 billion to the citizens | Oct 22 10:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | they can't prove they actually have a right to the property since they can't prove any real money was loaned out | Oct 22 10:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: I agree | Oct 22 10:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | if congress wanted the problem to be fixed, they should have handed every american about $20k | Oct 22 10:54 |
| fewa | thats $2,000 per person | Oct 22 10:54 |
| fewa | that is alot of money | Oct 22 10:54 |
| fewa | which the banks pocketed | Oct 22 10:54 |
| fewa | its soooo fucking corrupt | Oct 22 10:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | every company that would have benefited from being "bailed out" would have been "bailed out" | Oct 22 10:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | we personally would have done it | Oct 22 10:55 |
| schestowitz | [10:54] <fewa> thats $2,000 per person | Oct 22 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Think about average ameican | Oct 22 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Including kids | Oct 22 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Family of 5: 10k | Oct 22 10:55 |
| fewa | its a loan of support to the capitalism system | Oct 22 10:55 |
| fewa | *capitalist | Oct 22 10:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: yup | Oct 22 10:55 |
| schestowitz | Enough of sustainability for longer than stupid bankers before they next 'bubble' | Oct 22 10:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | but we really should shut down the fed | Oct 22 10:55 |
| fewa | schestowitz, its france's double december paycheck | Oct 22 10:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | i dont mind capitalism | Oct 22 10:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | but it falls apart when you let people play outside of the rules | Oct 22 10:56 |
| fewa | *the state-capitalist system | Oct 22 10:56 |
| schestowitz | "Free market" capitalism | Oct 22 10:56 |
| fewa | this is it in its naked form | Oct 22 10:56 |
| schestowitz | Not the capital issue | Oct 22 10:56 |
| schestowitz | The whole School of Chicago nonsense | Oct 22 10:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, goldman sachs is problematic | Oct 22 10:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | so is jp morgan | Oct 22 10:57 |
| schestowitz | They should be left to write their tripe is a distant island | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | citi mildly is, but not to that extent | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | and boa is staffed by fucking morons | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | how the fuck did they not profit this quarter | Oct 22 10:57 |
| schestowitz | The problem is that they 'infected' other countries with similar principles | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | what the hell were they doing | Oct 22 10:57 |
| schestowitz | The whole assimilation thing | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | they were handed a perfect quarter | Oct 22 10:57 |
| schestowitz | COuntries in Europe were better at resistance this spendings economy | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | with free money | Oct 22 10:57 |
| fewa | for $700 billion they could have abolished the payroll taxes on ~25% of the population for 1 year | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | and a get out of jail free card | Oct 22 10:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | and THEY STILL DID NOT PROFIT THIS QUARTER | Oct 22 10:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | boa should be shut down by force | Oct 22 10:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: exactly | Oct 22 10:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | we could have also abolished the american health care system | Oct 22 10:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | and borrowed the dutch system | Oct 22 10:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | and if theres an actual real overhead, that would have been covered for a good portion of our lives | Oct 22 11:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | with $700 billion | Oct 22 11:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody United States Under Pressure to Protect Tropical Forests - http://bit.ly/3WV2qC conserving tropical forests is a win-win-win | Oct 22 11:04 | |
| *zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00l | Oct 22 11:05 | |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: you know what I find amazing? | Oct 22 11:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | we're watching companies drown | Oct 22 11:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | if obamacare, as obama put it forth, passes.... | Oct 22 11:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | the largest health insurance companies will die. | Oct 22 11:05 |
| fewa | I thought "obamacare" was a derogatory word | Oct 22 11:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | no | Oct 22 11:06 |
| fewa | also, I have read views that are entirely the opposite | Oct 22 11:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | if the republicans would want to be derogatory, they'd call it negrocare | Oct 22 11:06 |
| fewa | that HR 3200 will give live support to the health insurers | Oct 22 11:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: I said as obama originally wrote it | Oct 22 11:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | congress has ruined it, basically | Oct 22 11:07 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("brb") | Oct 22 11:07 | |
| Diablo-D3 | obama riffed off the dutch system | Oct 22 11:07 |
| fewa | it will dump the sick onto the public option, making private insurance more profitable, and making the public option look bad | Oct 22 11:07 |
| fewa | seting up a way to prevent single payer | Oct 22 11:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: ever see the dutch system? | Oct 22 11:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have private health insurance companies | Oct 22 11:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | but they are _required_ to have so many sick people of every possible sickness | Oct 22 11:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | if they dont have enough sick people, they're no longer allowed to insure people | Oct 22 11:08 |
| fewa | http://www.pnhp.org/amendment/ | Oct 22 11:08 |
| fewa | http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/sebelius-not-only-it-not-single-payer | Oct 22 11:09 |
| fewa | "Asked if the administration’s program will be drafted specifically to prevent it from evolving into a single-payer plan, Sebelius says: “I think that’s very much the case”" | Oct 22 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Goldman Sachs’s Griffiths Says Inequality Helps All http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8upOpH5Q3Tw | Oct 22 11:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: like I said, congress ruined it | Oct 22 11:09 |
| fewa | that was Sebelius | Oct 22 11:09 |
| fewa | obama's health and human services appointee | Oct 22 11:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | yup | Oct 22 11:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | obama has changed his stance on a few things to help this through congress | Oct 22 11:10 |
| fewa | you mean he gave up on everything? | Oct 22 11:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | but if congress wasn't a bunch of dumbasses, they would have realized that SICK PEOPLE COST MONEY | Oct 22 11:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | basically. | Oct 22 11:10 |
| fewa | <Diablo-D3> but if congress wasn't a bunch of dumbasses, they would have realized that SICK PEOPLE COST MONEY | Oct 22 11:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | he should just have congress arrested for being terrorists | Oct 22 11:10 |
| fewa | its not their money | Oct 22 11:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: its everybody's money | Oct 22 11:10 |
| fewa | and Obama refused to makethat point | Oct 22 11:10 |
| fewa | even though its so blatently obvious | Oct 22 11:11 |
| fewa | Weiner had to make it for him | Oct 22 11:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | every day someone doesnt go to work, it costs the entire economy about a million dollars | Oct 22 11:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats real dollars | Oct 22 11:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | and most of it comes out of the pockets of rich people | Oct 22 11:11 |
| fewa | not really | Oct 22 11:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | yup, they suffer the most | Oct 22 11:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they're too stupid to do the math | Oct 22 11:11 |
| oiaohm | I | Oct 22 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only reason they dont care is they can afford to lose money | Oct 22 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: some have a different theory. | Oct 22 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | us poor people cant | Oct 22 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Don't provide medical support Sick people die sooner so removing problem. | Oct 22 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, bill gates, over 2008, lost more money than the GDPs of some small countries | Oct 22 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yes, but it costs so much money to train poor people | Oct 22 11:12 |
| fewa | Diablo-D3, http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html | Oct 22 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | just because they die doesnt mean you get what it cost to raise them back | Oct 22 11:13 |
| fewa | the rich doesn't suffer | Oct 22 11:13 |
| fewa | esp the rich that take pleasure in the suffering of others | Oct 22 11:13 |
| oiaohm | Also the schools in poor areas of the USA are not that well funded. | Oct 22 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: I think you misunderstood | Oct 22 11:13 |
| fewa | i do | Oct 22 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: the top 10% pay more out than the bottom 90% | Oct 22 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: but they're funded. | Oct 22 11:14 |
| fewa | not really | Oct 22 11:14 |
| fewa | the middle class are the ones that pay | Oct 22 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: if wealfare, public care, any public programs, and whatever else didnt exist, no, poor people wouldnt matter | Oct 22 11:14 |
| fewa | the upper 10% pay less than the middle class | Oct 22 11:14 |
| fewa | far less | Oct 22 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: not directly. | Oct 22 11:14 |
| fewa | yes, they pay less | Oct 22 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | fewa: per capita, they pay more | Oct 22 11:14 |
| fewa | look to this http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html to see why directly is BS | Oct 22 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | all of them combined, they probably pay less | Oct 22 11:15 |
| fewa | but there are a larger share of the economy | Oct 22 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Tax system here suxs for middle class. | Oct 22 11:15 |
| fewa | they should pay more | Oct 22 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | since theres about 1000 times more middle class | Oct 22 11:15 |
| fewa | oiaohm, probably not nearly as lopsided as the US's | Oct 22 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | taxes should probably be abolished anyhow | Oct 22 11:15 |
| oiaohm | Upper class has a lot more tax avoidance methods. | Oct 22 11:15 |
| fewa | almost solely paid by middle and lower-middle class here | Oct 22 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | we cant trust the government to use the money wisely | Oct 22 11:15 |
| fewa | not just tax avoidance of upper, outright waivers, corporate welfare, etc | Oct 22 11:16 |
| fewa | and a vicious attack on the estate tax aka "death tax" | Oct 22 11:16 |
| fewa | corporations are basically soverign entities in the US | Oct 22 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: mind you the goverments are kinda stupid. | Oct 22 11:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yup, which is why I don't trust them | Oct 22 11:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | I should actually be able to sue them | Oct 22 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Japan has worked it out due to that they are not going to have enough people to take care of there elderly. | Oct 22 11:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | japans mildly panicing | Oct 22 11:19 |
| oiaohm | This is some of the problem they may not be enough skilled people to take care of the sick anyhow. | Oct 22 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Little bit more than mildy Diablo-D3 | Oct 22 11:19 |
| oiaohm | 10 to 1 is really not good. | Oct 22 11:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Flight booked for the next Ubuntu developer summit in Dallas.Looking forward to seeing friends again. | Oct 22 11:19 | |
| fewa | Japan doesn't have as many elderly as US | Oct 22 11:20 |
| fewa | but I guess US pop is raising so more young | Oct 22 11:20 |
| fewa | while Japan is shrinking | Oct 22 11:20 |
| fewa | and europe does not have as many elderly due to WW2 | Oct 22 11:20 |
| oiaohm | IT age is causing less children to be born. | Oct 22 11:20 |
| schestowitz | re: "Japan doesn't have as many elderly as US " I think proportional to the overall population there is more | Oct 22 11:20 |
| schestowitz | Look it up in Wikipedia to be sure | Oct 22 11:21 |
| fewa | schestowitz, yes | Oct 22 11:21 |
| fewa | second part of sentence | Oct 22 11:21 |
| fewa | its the strinking birth rates | Oct 22 11:21 |
| oiaohm | More and more faimallys are have 1 or none children. | Oct 22 11:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | [06:17:39] <oiaohm> Little bit more than mildy Diablo-D3 | Oct 22 11:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: why do you think they're on the forefront of robotics? | Oct 22 11:21 |
| fewa | also the extremely high capital costs of society | Oct 22 11:21 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: exacty they are spending tons on robotics in the hope if provides a solution. | Oct 22 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: not only that | Oct 22 11:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | robotic women | Oct 22 11:22 |
| schestowitz | CG girls | Oct 22 11:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: you cant stick your dick in a cg girl. | Oct 22 11:23 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: no need to descend to band langugage | Oct 22 11:24 |
| schestowitz | VMware profits drop by half http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/vmware_q3fy2009/ | Oct 22 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft's new fortress | Oct 22 11:24 |
| schestowitz | "Oracle has failed to persuade the European Commission that it will provide a safe home for MySQL." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/oracle_eu_warning/ | Oct 22 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually | Oct 22 11:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wish oracle would kill mysql off | Oct 22 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: There is a secound problem. | Oct 22 11:25 |
| *Diablo-D3 so very hates mysql | Oct 22 11:25 | |
| oiaohm | Medical is getting to the point that lot of people could live to be over 100 years old | Oct 22 11:25 |
| oiaohm | That makes old age people a lot longer lasting problem. | Oct 22 11:26 |
| schestowitz | Goldman Sachs: Pay Inequality Good ! < http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/10/goldman-sachs-pay-inequality-good.html > | Oct 22 11:27 |
| schestowitz | I actually found this in Moody's feed | Oct 22 11:27 |
| oiaohm | Living to 200 years old is still problem matic. | Oct 22 11:27 |
| oiaohm | dna stops replicating issue kicks in. | Oct 22 11:28 |
| schestowitz | You'd have to start early | Oct 22 11:28 |
| schestowitz | So current generation might not enjoy that | Oct 22 11:28 |
| oiaohm | Lot of current people under 40 have good odd of living to over 100. | Oct 22 11:29 |
| oiaohm | That is of course if items like lack of sleep and the like don't destory there minds. | Oct 22 11:29 |
| oiaohm | Most people have a pre programmed max live span in dna between 105 and 160. | Oct 22 11:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow | Oct 22 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know whats funny as hell? | Oct 22 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/12/mono-vs-java-video/ | Oct 22 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | see that guy? | Oct 22 11:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | hes in #ck as bh | Oct 22 11:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I never knew he was chinese | Oct 22 11:32 |
| mutx | most people are chinese !!! | Oct 22 11:33 |
| oiaohm | That will change at some point mutx | Oct 22 11:33 |
| mutx | probably only to "all people are chinese" :) | Oct 22 11:34 |
| oiaohm | india population will change it at some point. | Oct 22 11:34 |
| oiaohm | china population is reducing. | Oct 22 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.metamorphosis.org.mk/world/cholandija-policiskite-sili-kje-koristat-softver-so-otvoren-kod-sekade-kade-shto-e-mozhno.html | Oct 22 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | most people are latino | Oct 22 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | think I'm kidding? go to texas some day | Oct 22 11:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | or florida | Oct 22 11:34 |
| satipera | hello all, https://secure.wikileaks.org/wiki/Removed_paper_on_Internet_censorship_trails_in_Australia%2C_NZ%2C_UK_with_NetClean_Whitebox%2C_2009 | Oct 22 11:34 |
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| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: world wide disagrees with you. Latino is third on the list. | Oct 22 11:35 |
| mutx | Diablo, you do know that there are other places and even countries apart from the US right :) | Oct 22 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: whats #2? | Oct 22 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Chinese, people from india then Latino | Oct 22 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | indian? | Oct 22 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Oct 22 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | mutx: this was the joke I was making | Oct 22 11:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | my humor is clearly too superior for this audience | Oct 22 11:36 |
| mutx | oh right, I get jokes LOL very funny | Oct 22 11:36 |
| mutx | even ones that bad ) | Oct 22 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Remember remove China and India from the earth and over 2/5 of the world population would be gone. | Oct 22 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Some places are slightly over populated. | Oct 22 11:37 |
| fewa | oiaohm, those places have always had high populations | Oct 22 11:39 |
| fewa | they are very fertile | Oct 22 11:39 |
| oiaohm | still china got to the point of over populateed and is working on the problem. | Oct 22 11:40 |
| oiaohm | india still has not worried about that problem yet. | Oct 22 11:41 |
| fewa | *they have not reacted | Oct 22 11:41 |
| fewa | they have the same problem china has | Oct 22 11:41 |
| fewa | but their government is comparatively weak | Oct 22 11:41 |
| fewa | "And finally, a cougar was spotted wandering near the software maker's suburban headquarters." | Oct 22 11:43 |
| mutx | im fairly sure, if most governments told it's people that they could only have one child, they would not stay in politics long. come the next electui | Oct 22 11:45 |
| mutx | election | Oct 22 11:45 |
| schestowitz | Symbian Releases Microkernel As Open Source, Finally http://ostatic.com/blog/symbian-releases-microkernel-as-open-source-finally | Oct 22 11:53 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/oct/20/nuclear-police-run-covert-network | Oct 22 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Example where police is used as a front for compnaies | Oct 22 12:02 |
| schestowitz | http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?262319 | Oct 22 12:03 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "When Texan jurors turned to the Old Testament to determine if a man on death row should die..." http://ping.fm/BWoYM | Oct 22 12:06 | |
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| schestowitz | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/21/sun-oracle-save-microsofts-pink-after-danger-data-disaster/ Sun, Oracle save Microsoft’s Pink after Danger data disaster | Oct 22 12:13 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.pythonprogramminglanguage.info/2009/10/20/simple-kde-trick-2-using-remote-desktops-with-avahi-krfb-and-krdc/ | Oct 22 12:23 |
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| phIRCe | Hello World! | Oct 22 12:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Well, this is embarrassing Firefox is having trouble recovering your windows and tabs. This is usually caused by a recently opened web page | Oct 22 12:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] LOL | Oct 22 12:33 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Reading http://www.debian.org/users/edu/tce-india TCE uses debian! | Oct 22 12:34 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Debian -- Department of Computer and Engineering, Thiagarajar College of Engineering, Madurai, India .::. Size~: 4.52 KB | Oct 22 12:34 |
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| schestowitz | zer0c00l: Ubuntu use Debian, too :-) | Oct 22 12:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Yay! My graze box just arrived. Get a free one at http://graze.com/ - use code Q4PTNZM ! Om nom nom nom. | Oct 22 12:45 | |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz: :) | Oct 22 12:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | what. | Oct 22 12:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Time Management for Anarchists http://is.gd/4vGbA yes, really | Oct 22 12:49 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Internet Archive: Free Download: Time Management for Anarchists #1 .::. Size~: 14.01 KB | Oct 22 12:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/1054_signs.jpg | Oct 22 12:50 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/nissan-land-glider/ | Oct 22 12:54 |
| phIRCe | Title: Nissans Wild Land Glider EV May Yet Fly | Autopia | Wired.com .::. Size~: 85.45 KB | Oct 22 12:54 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-19514_3-10379270-239.html | Oct 22 12:57 |
| phIRCe | Title: Ares I-X rocket hauled to launch pad for critical test flight | The Space Shot - CNET News .::. Size~: 85.99 KB | Oct 22 12:57 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/chris-dannen/techwatch/did-sears-just-win-book-price-war | Oct 22 13:00 |
| phIRCe | Title: Did Sears Just Whoop Wal-Mart, Amazon, and Target in the Book-Price War? | TechWatch | Fast Company .::. Size~: 38.53 KB | Oct 22 13:00 |
| schestowitz | "Looks similar to Mr. Garrison’s invention on South Park. I hope it doesn’t require the same functionality like his ride too." http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/eringo/ *LOL* | Oct 22 13:00 |
| phIRCe | Title: eRinGo EV Concept Is a 3-Ring Circus | Autopia | Wired.com .::. Size~: 75.49 KB | Oct 22 13:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Last night I watched the documentary Year Zero. It's a good reminder of important stuff that's censored. | Oct 22 13:10 | |
| schestowitz | Now PJ hypothesises that Microsoft wants to buy mysql with Monty's help. Far, FAR fetched. | Oct 22 13:16 |
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| schestowitz | http://gnuski.blogspot.com/2009/10/howto-virtualbox-on-debian-squeeze.html | Oct 22 13:22 |
| phIRCe | Title: lefty.crupps' GNUski bacon: HowTo: VirtualBox on Debian Squeeze (Testing / Sid) .::. Size~: 20.27 KB | Oct 22 13:22 |
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| schestowitz | http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2009/10/21/and-now-the-s-t-hits-the-mysql-fans Another stupid rant | Oct 22 13:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://askmonty.org/wiki/index.php/MariaDB | Oct 22 13:24 |
| phIRCe | Title: MariaDB - Askmonty.org .::. Size~: 27.67 KB | Oct 22 13:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Appropriate image, opening a window.....to let the bad guys in to trash your home and steal your stuff. ROFL! http://tinyurl.com/yjfu4jw | Oct 22 13:25 | |
| phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | Technology | Start me up, Windows .::. Size~: 63.69 KB | Oct 22 13:25 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IBM Takes Advantage of #Vista7 Problems to Market #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/e6el http://ur1.ca/e6em http://ur1.ca/e6en | Oct 22 13:58 | |
| phIRCe | Title: IBM tries to woo business customers from Windows 7 - Technology Live - USATODAY.com .::. Size~: 50.25 KB | Oct 22 13:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Should be Marketed for Its Good Applications, Too http://ur1.ca/e6et | Oct 22 14:00 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Raiden's Realm: Boosting Linux: Maybe we're going about it the wrong way? .::. Size~: 27.66 KB | Oct 22 14:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ZiffDavis Verdict: #GNU #Linux Does Everything Vista7 Can Do http://ur1.ca/e6ev | Oct 22 14:02 | |
| phIRCe | Title: LABS GALLERY: What Does Windows 7 Have That Linux Doesn't? .::. Size~: 46.18 KB | Oct 22 14:02 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Samsung Computers to Run #GNU #Linux , Then Maybe #Windows http://bit.ly/inaC3 #bios #boot | Oct 22 14:03 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Phoenix Pre-Boot Will Appear in Samsung Notebooks - Reviews by PC Magazine .::. Size~: 90.83 KB | Oct 22 14:04 |
| ThistleWeb | What does Windows have that Linux doesn't? Malware compatibility; it seems to be an enterprise requirement | Oct 22 14:06 |
| schestowitz | Maybe wine can bridge the gap. Maybe. | Oct 22 14:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Oops, just tagged @jonobacon as a spammer on linux.com. Silly layout meant I clicked 'Report User' by accident. | Oct 22 14:10 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Camp #KDE 2010 Announced, #Usability Debated http://ur1.ca/e6fs http://ur1.ca/e6fu http://ur1.ca/e6fv | Oct 22 14:15 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Camp KDE 2010 Registration Open! | KDE.news .::. Size~: 10.2 KB | Oct 22 14:15 |
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| phIRCe | Title: KDE4 Demonstrates Choice Is Not A Usability Problem | KDE.news .::. Size~: 22.35 KB | Oct 22 14:16 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora #GNU #Linux 13 Adds Exciting New Features http://ur1.ca/e6g5 http://ur1.ca/e4sc 12: http://ur1.ca/e6g6 | Oct 22 14:17 | |
| phIRCe | Title: [Phoronix] First Fedora 13 Features Listed: NFSv4, DisplayPort .::. Size~: 15.67 KB | Oct 22 14:17 |
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| phIRCe | Title: GNOME Screenshots: Fedora 12 Beta Released « Begin Linux Blog .::. Size~: 43.21 KB | Oct 22 14:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian #Squeeze to Have #Linux 2.6.32 http://bit.ly/2I1Gmi | Oct 22 14:19 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Kernel 2.6.32 for Debian Squeeze - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 25.13 KB | Oct 22 14:19 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Canonical Prepares for Massive Demand for #GNU #Linux CDs http://ur1.ca/e6gm http://ur1.ca/e6gn | Oct 22 14:26 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Keeping Ubuntu CDs Available | The Fridge .::. Size~: 11 KB | Oct 22 14:26 |
| phIRCe | Title: Getting Ready For Karmic Koala Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu &. Which one should you use? .::. Size~: 59.38 KB | Oct 22 14:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google's #Linux #Phones Listed, Some go PAYG http://ur1.ca/e6gv http://ur1.ca/e6gy http://ur1.ca/e6gz | Oct 22 14:28 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Android Avalanche: A Complete List Of The Android Phones So Far .::. Size~: 205.6 KB | Oct 22 14:28 |
| phIRCe | Title: Android goes PAYG • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 18.98 KB | Oct 22 14:29 |
| phIRCe | Title: Google Open Source Blog: TalkBack: An Open Source Screenreader For Android .::. Size~: 72.34 KB | Oct 22 14:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Dell Puts #Linux on Mobile Internet Devices http://bit.ly/2Bp9c6 #mid | Oct 22 14:29 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Dell Android MID makes web appearance - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 60.85 KB | Oct 22 14:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Applications for #Palm 's #Linux -powered Phones Now Visible on the Web http://ur1.ca/e6h3 | Oct 22 14:31 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Palm makes WebOS app catalog browseable on the web - you know, like Apple's should be .::. Size~: 95.8 KB | Oct 22 14:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla #Firefox 3.6 Promotes Free Fonts http://ur1.ca/e6hc http://ur1.ca/e6hd | Oct 22 14:34 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Mozilla to support Web Open Font Format in Firefox 3.6 - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 25.89 KB | Oct 22 14:34 |
| phIRCe | Title: Mozilla Throws Its Weight Behind Improving Web Type Adopts WOFF for Firefox - Webmonkey .::. Size~: 115.76 KB | Oct 22 14:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenOffice .org Has New Developer Snapshot http://bit.ly/cQhEq | Oct 22 14:39 | |
| phIRCe | Title: New: OOo-DEV 3.x Developer Snapshot (build DEV300_m62) available - GullFOSS .::. Size~: 57.61 KB | Oct 22 14:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Maker #Metasploit Bought by #Rapid7 http://bit.ly/Rky46 | Oct 22 14:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] vou almoçar... | Oct 22 14:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MitchKapor Enthusiastic About #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/JhZ1D | Oct 22 14:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Blender Takes Stock of Life as #FreeSoftware Program http://bit.ly/ebLm5 | Oct 22 14:43 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Building a Blender Bookshelf on Renderosity.com .::. Size~: 72.95 KB | Oct 22 14:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSFE Founder Launches Open Database Alliance http://blogs.fsfe.org/greve/?p=383 | Oct 22 14:45 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSF Starts New Campaign http://bit.ly/kzR6u | Oct 22 14:45 | |
| phIRCe | Title: freedom bits » What Ive been doing: New Opportunities. .::. Size~: 59.75 KB | Oct 22 14:46 |
| phIRCe | Title: Why is free software important to you? Submit your response to our new video campaign! - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 27.59 KB | Oct 22 14:46 |
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| DaemonFC | looks like I made the right call on Fedora | Oct 22 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | Fedora 12 has a brand new RadeonHD driver and Ubuntu Karmic won't | Oct 22 14:50 |
| MinceR | karmic lets you install on ext3, fedora doesn't :> | Oct 22 14:52 |
| MinceR | at least 11 doesn't | Oct 22 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Who cares? | Oct 22 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Oct 22 14:53 |
| MinceR | i do | Oct 22 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | by that I mean I don't care, of course | Oct 22 14:53 |
| MinceR | you aren't expressing yourself clearly | Oct 22 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, the DVD version of Fedora does let you install to ext3, the livecd does not | Oct 22 14:53 |
| MinceR | oh | Oct 22 14:54 |
| MinceR | i'll give that a try sometime, then. | Oct 22 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's not like they're just going to rip support for it, so I would say you're safe to use it | Oct 22 14:54 |
| MinceR | do they additionally supply an ext3 image on the dvd or do they use a different install method? | Oct 22 14:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK #Government Shares Some Data, #CreativeCommons Makes More Gains http://ur1.ca/e6iv http://ur1.ca/e6iy | Oct 22 14:54 | |
| phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | Technology | Government opens data to public .::. Size~: 51.63 KB | Oct 22 14:54 |
| phIRCe | Title: Al Jazeera Blogs Go CC - Creative Commons .::. Size~: 14.2 KB | Oct 22 14:55 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, You have to select manual partitioning and use ext3 on all the partitions you want it on | Oct 22 14:55 |
| MinceR | i did | Oct 22 14:55 |
| MinceR | and then the installer said it can only install to ext4 from the image it has | Oct 22 14:55 |
| MinceR | (did it want to use dd or something?) | Oct 22 14:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Proprietary #EVoting Code Does Nefarious Things http://techdirt.com/articles/20091020/1749566613.shtml | Oct 22 14:55 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Sequoia Accidentally Reveals (Potentially Illegal?) E-Voting Code | Techdirt .::. Size~: 89.46 KB | Oct 22 14:55 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR, It was a pain in the ass on my last system, I ended up being lazy and copying all the files I wanted to keep onto my Windows partition then formatting over XFS with Ext4 | Oct 22 14:56 |
| *zer0c00l|away (n=user@117.199.142.176) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 14:56 | |
| DaemonFC | there's obviously no direct path from one to the other without formatting if you use XFS | Oct 22 14:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSource #Database Foundation Designed to Protect Freedom of Data-organising Tools http://ur1.ca/e6j3 | Oct 22 14:56 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Is There an Open Source Database Ecosystem? - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 79.58 KB | Oct 22 14:56 |
| MinceR | i got off XFS already | Oct 22 14:57 |
| DaemonFC | ext3 kind of sort of upgrades to ext4, but I'd still format to get ext4 until they have e4defrag | Oct 22 14:57 |
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| DaemonFC | when they have that, you can remount ext3 as ext4 and immediately run e4defrag | Oct 22 14:57 |
| MinceR | i'll probably stay on ext3 until btrfs is stable | Oct 22 14:57 |
| zer0c00l | MinceR: Its because of a major bug in grub2 | Oct 22 14:57 |
| MinceR | huh? | Oct 22 14:57 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, BtrFS will support ext3 and ext4 conversions with no formatting | Oct 22 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | so you're safe in any event | Oct 22 14:58 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: i've heard of it | Oct 22 14:58 |
| zer0c00l | MinceR: fedora guys didn't allow ext4 partition to be bootable; | Oct 22 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | use whatever you like | Oct 22 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | zer0c00l, Fedora 12 does | Oct 22 14:58 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: is such in-place conversion in any way inferior to formatting anew? | Oct 22 14:58 |
| zer0c00l | DaemonFC: yes | Oct 22 14:58 |
| zer0c00l | DaemonFC: grub2 is in rawhide | Oct 22 14:58 |
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| zer0c00l | :D | Oct 22 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | Fedora 11 is using original GRUB | Oct 22 14:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OrphanedWorks Harmed by #IntellectualMonopolies http://bit.ly/NRhUk | Oct 22 14:58 | |
| phIRCe | Title: open...: Won't Somebody Please Think of the Orphans? .::. Size~: 104.68 KB | Oct 22 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | original GRUB hasn't been officially upgraded since like 1997 | Oct 22 14:58 |
| DaemonFC | it's a pretty sorry mess | Oct 22 14:59 |
| DaemonFC | GRUB 2 is much much better | Oct 22 14:59 |
| DaemonFC | original GRUB was being kept together by unofficial distro patches getting tossed around, so every distro ended up with different GRUB-related bugs too, obviously | Oct 22 14:59 |
| zer0c00l | MinceR, DaemonFC i m having ubuntu karamic in ext4 partition , after that i installed fedora 11 in ext3,fedora's grub was not able to boot ubuntu, then i enabled rawhide repo in fedora 11 and installed grub2 and everything works fine now | Oct 22 15:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Internet #Censorship Plans in #Australia Exposed Through #Wikileaks http://ur1.ca/e6ja | Oct 22 15:00 | |
| DaemonFC | LILO was actually much less scary than GRUB in many ways. I always kind of wondered why they didn't just work on LILO instead of hack GRUB together with popsicle sticks and chewing gum | Oct 22 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | FSF politics no doubt | Oct 22 15:01 |
| phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 22 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | Wikileaks is down | Oct 22 15:03 |
| mutx | there was nothing like installing linux, to be present for your effort with "li" | Oct 22 15:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Life is so unfair :| | Oct 22 15:04 | |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: because LILO requires you to rerun the lilo app to apply changes | Oct 22 15:06 |
| MinceR | while GRUB can understand filesystems | Oct 22 15:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | and grub2 is awesome | Oct 22 15:06 |
| DaemonFC | GRUB has also been the source of file system corruption bugs | Oct 22 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | including even ext3 from time to time | Oct 22 15:07 |
| DaemonFC | one of those bugs was affecting RHEL a while back | Oct 22 15:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | suspiciously sounds like bullshit | Oct 22 15:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Leaked Details Show High Levels of #Surveillance http://bit.ly/2L9A0G http://ur1.ca/e6k3 | Oct 22 15:10 | |
| phIRCe | Title: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.27 KB | Oct 22 15:10 |
| phIRCe | Title: One Nation, Under Surveillance - Homeland Stupidity .::. Size~: 46.33 KB | Oct 22 15:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Maria Berger, ex PSE MEP involved in the swpat directive, now judge at the ECJ: http://i5.be/Pz | Oct 22 15:11 | |
| phIRCe | Title: CURIA - Composition des chambres .::. Size~: 48.65 KB | Oct 22 15:11 |
| *desu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Oct 22 15:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #CSIRO Shows That Patents Hinder Science http://ur1.ca/e6kp http://ur1.ca/e02x #swpayt | Oct 22 15:17 | |
| phIRCe | Title: CSIRO Taxes Innovators To Fund Innovators? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 56.78 KB | Oct 22 15:18 |
| phIRCe | Title: AppleInsider | Apple, others hit with lawsuit over '90s Ethernet patents .::. Size~: 54.38 KB | Oct 22 15:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at Evil #Patent Colonialists That #BillGates Promotes http://ur1.ca/e6kz http://ur1.ca/e6l0 | Oct 22 15:21 | |
| phIRCe | Title: open...: Monsanto: Making Microsoft Look Good .::. Size~: 111.38 KB | Oct 22 15:22 |
| phIRCe | Title: open...: No Patents on Seeds...or We're Really Stuffed .::. Size~: 98.64 KB | Oct 22 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | I called my congresscritter's office and chewed some ass | Oct 22 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Oct 22 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | I feel a little better | Oct 22 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | I told them "I know he's missed half his votes to go play golf and if he's going to continue to obstruct healthcare reform, I'd rather pay him my tax money to go play some more golf and miss those votes" | Oct 22 15:23 |
| mutx | it's funny how the CSIRO invented the concept, which was not obvious, but it was the Texas company that "innovated" the product. | Oct 22 15:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: heh | Oct 22 15:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think congress should be arrested for fraud | Oct 22 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | Dan Burton = Total Whackjob | Oct 22 15:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IDG: #Vista7 Envies #GNU #Linux (KDE4?), "Starts out on the wrong foot" http://ur1.ca/e6lo http://ur1.ca/e6lp | Oct 22 15:29 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft's roadkill on the journey to Windows 7 ( - Software ) .::. Size~: 47.34 KB | Oct 22 15:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, basically | Oct 22 15:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're government contractors | Oct 22 15:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they're being paid to do a job they're not doing | Oct 22 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, They're playing both sides down the middle | Oct 22 15:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | which means they should be shot for terrorism | Oct 22 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | A bill that does some good for Americans that doesn't cost big business money: Approved | Oct 22 15:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think my way is more friendly | Oct 22 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | A bill that's good for Americans that hurts the profits of a few mega corporations: Denied | Oct 22 15:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] IDG: Customers Won't Buy #Vista7 (Ballmer Said so Too) http://ur1.ca/e6m1 | Oct 22 15:32 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Consumers Won't Pay $120 for Windows 7 Upgrade - PC World .::. Size~: 77.43 KB | Oct 22 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | Why would they? Microsoft is backporting all the meat to Windows Vista | Oct 22 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure they'll throw in a poison pill somewhere | Oct 22 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | Randall Kennedy surprised me with the honest nature of that Windows XP SP3 vs Vista vs 7 review | Oct 22 15:34 |
| DaemonFC | showing that Windows 7 is a tad lighter than Vista but XP still runs rings around both of them | Oct 22 15:35 |
| DaemonFC | every version of Windows up til Vista had enough good things added to it to compensate for the ~5-10% slowdown (especially if you had fast hardware) | Oct 22 15:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://zip.4chan.org/m/src/1256217945603.jpg | Oct 22 15:36 |
| phIRCe | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 22 15:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | so wait | Oct 22 15:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | a 7 patty burger... for windows 7? | Oct 22 15:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | WHY THE HELL DONT I LIVE IN ..... taiwan? korea? | Oct 22 15:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im pretty sure thats not moonrunes | Oct 22 15:37 |
| mutx | I upgraded from XP SP3 to Win 7, I find win 7 to be crisper and quicker than XP, but ive not done any benchmarks, good enough and really fast is good enough. | Oct 22 15:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | mutx: 7s a fair bit better than XP | Oct 22 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | mutx, More responsive and much slower is possible at the same time mutx | Oct 22 15:37 |
| mutx | yes, I think so too. | Oct 22 15:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | the real thing is | Oct 22 15:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | HOLY CRAP ITS SO MUCH BETTER THAN VISTA | Oct 22 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | you'll find that it runs games and gaming benchmarks slower | Oct 22 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | but yes, it "feels" faster because the kernel latency has been worked on | Oct 22 15:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: which is sad | Oct 22 15:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | since its still slower than bfs linux | Oct 22 15:38 |
| mutx | my frame rate on WoW did not significantly change, again, it's way fast enough for me, so it's a non issue, as it was with XP. | Oct 22 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | I was startled at how much faster it "felt" than Vista | Oct 22 15:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I could never game on windows (xp, vista, or 7) until they fix their insane input lag problem | Oct 22 15:38 |
| DaemonFC | but it didn't run my games any better | Oct 22 15:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont know how anyone games on windows | Oct 22 15:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | its insane | Oct 22 15:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | linux is so much better at it | Oct 22 15:39 |
| DaemonFC | in about half the things I've seen benchmarked, I recall that Vista with SP2 benchmarked better than Windows 7 | Oct 22 15:40 |
| DaemonFC | it's a tossup, I'd say they perform about the same | Oct 22 15:40 |
| mutx | when I can (and do) open a document and have it on my screen before I can move my hand from the mouse to the keyboard, it's way quick enough. | Oct 22 15:41 |
| *Lefty_ (i=795eb2fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-minirpamuqhmsxiq) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 15:42 | |
| Lefty_ | I have sixteen IDs on Slashdot? | Oct 22 15:42 |
| Lefty_ | I didn't know I even had _one_. | Oct 22 15:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well, apparent latency is a problem too | Oct 22 15:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | an OS _can_ be slower if it feels faster | Oct 22 15:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | since its a desktop OS after all | Oct 22 15:43 |
| Lefty_ | Can someone point me at all these IDs....? They're not doing anything there to pimp my web site, apparently. | Oct 22 15:43 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Oct 22 15:44 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Lefty_ from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Oct 22 15:44 | |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: I can honestly admit I'm impressed with 7 over Vista | Oct 22 15:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | but 2k still > 7 | Oct 22 15:45 |
| *Lefty_ (i=795eb2fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-fqepdzdbmqwzokfs) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 15:45 | |
| Diablo-D3 | and modern linux still > any windows ever | Oct 22 15:45 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on Lefty_!*@* | Oct 22 15:45 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Lefty_ from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Oct 22 15:45 | |
| Diablo-D3 | who is lefty anyhow? | Oct 22 15:45 |
| schestowitz | Some crazy guy | Oct 22 15:45 |
| mutx | someone Roy does not like by the looks of it. | Oct 22 15:45 |
| schestowitz | mutx: he breaks the policies | Oct 22 15:45 |
| mutx | oh K. | Oct 22 15:46 |
| schestowitz | And he runs a site dedicated to attacks on me | Oct 22 15:46 |
| schestowitz | I don't need to entertain him here | Oct 22 15:46 |
| mutx | yes, running a site that attacks people is pretty bad, I agree. !!! | Oct 22 15:46 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 15:46 | |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: what's in 2k that's not in VIsta7? | Oct 22 15:46 |
| *SomeOtherGuy (i=795eb2fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-tcupwyzowzbblmvk) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 15:46 | |
| SomeOtherGuy | Really, are you scared of a reasonable question, Roy? | Oct 22 15:46 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on SomeOtherGuy!*@* | Oct 22 15:47 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked SomeOtherGuy from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Oct 22 15:47 | |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: about 4gb of trash. | Oct 22 15:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: the only problem with 2k is its also missing all the modern stuff | Oct 22 15:47 |
| schestowitz | But not in RAM, right? | Oct 22 15:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, 2k uses a lot less ram | Oct 22 15:47 |
| schestowitz | I mean, all you need it to do is run apps | Oct 22 15:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres no reason for 7 to use that much either | Oct 22 15:47 |
| *Lefty- (i=795eb2fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-wglmaiimdvgskjtq) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 15:47 | |
| schestowitz | Security surely has not improved much | Oct 22 15:47 |
| *schestowitz has kicked Lefty- from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Oct 22 15:47 | |
| Diablo-D3 | oh jesus christ dude | Oct 22 15:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | just ban his nick | Oct 22 15:48 |
| schestowitz | To run apps you just need some platform that has even wine | Oct 22 15:48 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: he'd use another nick/route | Oct 22 15:48 |
| schestowitz | Just ignore it | Oct 22 15:48 |
| mutx | why not just confront the issues ? | Oct 22 15:48 |
| mutx | and be done with it. | Oct 22 15:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | or just +q him here | Oct 22 15:49 |
| schestowitz | Basically, people mostly run the OS to use a browser these days | Oct 22 15:49 |
| schestowitz | Browser, maybe games to some (younger people) | Oct 22 15:49 |
| MinceR | or find out his netblock and ban all webchats coming from it | Oct 22 15:49 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Apple stock #AAPL hits all time high http://ur1.ca/e6n9 | Oct 22 15:49 | |
| phIRCe | Title: AAPL hits all-time high .::. Size~: 64.15 KB | Oct 22 15:49 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: good for inveh!stors | Oct 22 15:50 |
| schestowitz | And to fanbois who dedicate their life to making some billionaires from CA rich(er) | Oct 22 15:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | its still worth noting | Oct 22 15:50 |
| schestowitz | Meh. | Oct 22 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Some numbers | Oct 22 15:51 |
| schestowitz | They quantify all sorts of things | Oct 22 15:51 |
| schestowitz | You could measure other things | Oct 22 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Apple grows among the rich populations | Oct 22 15:51 |
| schestowitz | It's about making money from hardware | Oct 22 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Linux grows in market share, and not just for money | Oct 22 15:52 |
| *chm (n=chm@dslb-084-057-201-124.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 15:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] TODAY IS INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY TELL EVERYONE http://capslockday.com/ #CAPSLOCKDAY | Oct 22 15:59 | |
| phIRCe | Title: INTRNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY - OCTOBER 22 AND JUNE 28 .::. Size~: 4.91 KB | Oct 22 15:59 |
| JPerlow | that was amusing | Oct 22 16:02 |
| schestowitz | ISN'T IT VISTA7'S DAY? | Oct 22 16:03 |
| trmanco | yeah | Oct 22 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/355/5/447 | Oct 22 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | That's what happens when some jackass parents don't believe in immunizations | Oct 22 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | "Conclusions This outbreak was caused by the importation of measles into a population of children whose parents had refused to have them vaccinated because of safety concerns about the vaccine. High vaccination levels in the surrounding community and low rates of vaccine failure averted an epidemic." | Oct 22 16:06 |
| schestowitz | There's no hype today | Oct 22 16:07 |
| schestowitz | So weird. | Oct 22 16:07 |
| schestowitz | It's like PR backfired | Oct 22 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | those parents should be flogged | Oct 22 16:08 |
| schestowitz | No gremlins materialising magically in forums like when VIsta was released | Oct 22 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | "Estimated costs of containing the disease were at least $167,685, including $113,647 at a hospital with an infected employee." | Oct 22 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | in other words "We don't believe in having our kids immunized, so we'll just turn them into a pandemic waiting to happen that costs the state hundreds of thousands of dollars to clean up" | Oct 22 16:09 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] TODAY IS INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY TELL EVERYONE http://capslockday.com/ <http://capslockday.com/> #CAPSLOCKDAY (via @boycottnovell) | Oct 22 16:09 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, there's lots of stuff about the subject in YouTube | Oct 22 16:09 |
| phIRCe | Title: INTRNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY - OCTOBER 22 AND JUNE 28 .::. Size~: 4.91 KB | Oct 22 16:09 |
| phIRCe | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 22 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I Think they should make it a criminal offense to not get your children vaccinated | Oct 22 16:09 |
| schestowitz | I GUESS i SHOULD LEAVE CAPS ON | Oct 22 16:09 |
| zer0c00l | schestowitz: lol | Oct 22 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | you're playing games with the community's health | Oct 22 16:10 |
| schestowitz | YES, THAT'S WHY THEY ARE CRITICISED FOR CHILD ABUSE | Oct 22 16:10 |
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| DaemonFC | it's not just child abuse | Oct 22 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | cause their kid could get sick and cough on me, and maybe I was one of the 1-2% the vaccine didn't work on | Oct 22 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | now I would be sick too | Oct 22 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | it's a crime against society | Oct 22 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | "In the early 2000s the MMR vaccine controversy in the United Kingdom regarding a potential link between the combined MMR vaccine (vaccinating children from mumps, measles and rubella) and autism prompted a reemergence of the "measles party", where parents deliberately expose their child to measles in the hope of building up the child's immunity without an injection. This practice poses many health risks to the child, and has been discouraged by th | Oct 22 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | e public health authorities." | Oct 22 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | glad to see that stupidity is truly universal | Oct 22 16:13 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-UtZrZzxTU | Oct 22 16:14 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Anti Vaccination Movement (1) - The Atheist Experience #589 .::. Size~: 154.77 KB | Oct 22 16:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Boozing... (mallu type) | Oct 22 16:18 | |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I put my name on the list for the H1N1 vaccine | Oct 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | what the hell? It's free | Oct 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't want to die cause I refused a free shot | Oct 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | this woman my mom works with has it and so do her kids | Oct 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | one of the kids was hallucinating yesterday :P | Oct 22 16:30 |
| zer0c00l | Posting notices to identi.ca using xmpp (pidgin) is slow :( | Oct 22 16:32 |
| zer0c00l | Takes long time to show up | Oct 22 16:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | zer0c00l: I hate the xmpp bridge | Oct 22 16:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | its useless crap | Oct 22 16:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | use gwibber instead | Oct 22 16:33 |
| zer0c00l | Diablo-D3: ok ; | Oct 22 16:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, the whole thing of using jabber is backwards | Oct 22 16:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | jabber isnt designed for mediums where you ignore most of the content | Oct 22 16:33 |
| zer0c00l | Diablo-D3: Will it post my notices or what? | Oct 22 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | I always get a flue shot, every year | Oct 22 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | last time I had the flu, I think I was like 7 years old | Oct 22 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | *flu | Oct 22 16:34 |
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| Diablo-D3 | zer0c00l: wait a couple seconds. | Oct 22 16:34 |
| zer0c00l | Diablo-D3: i am almost waiting for 15 mins :( | Oct 22 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | I just don't get sick with anything that often, but a flu shot can't hurt anything | Oct 22 16:34 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Sadly the frustration continues =P RT: @patrikgavin Windows 7 born from Vista's frustrations http://bit.ly/ERzF1 | Oct 22 16:34 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] I am posting this with #gwibber | Oct 22 16:34 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Windows 7 born from Vista's frustrations | Beyond Binary - CNET News .::. Size~: 215.14 KB | Oct 22 16:34 |
| zer0c00l | yeah, there comes my notice =P | Oct 22 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | Vista SP2 fixed a lot of the crap I was running into | Oct 22 16:35 |
| ThistleWeb | I'm not sure that's xmpp | Oct 22 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | not all of it by any means, but a lot | Oct 22 16:35 |
| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I9-XxBAEsQ | Oct 22 16:35 | |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - The Day I Died. NDE + Consciousness Documentary Pt1 of 6 .::. Size~: 128.72 KB | Oct 22 16:35 |
| ThistleWeb | I post to identica, which posts in turn to twitter, with identibash, and a firefox addon, as well as pidgin with jabber, the responses seem to vary on the twitter / identica side | Oct 22 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | bbl | Oct 22 16:36 |
| schestowitz | So far this docu is funny | Oct 22 16:36 |
| ThistleWeb | microblogs are not meant to be instant messages anyway, if you set your client to refresh too often they'll block it | Oct 22 16:37 |
| ThistleWeb | so if it refreshes every say 5 mins, does it really matter if it goes through instantly? | Oct 22 16:37 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Free software tools to find/fight pr0n http://ow.ly/vUt5 (via @sourceforge ) | Oct 22 16:39 | |
| phIRCe | Title: SourceForge.net: Community Hub .::. Size~: 3.89 KB | Oct 22 16:39 |
| schestowitz | Wow. I can't believe the Beeb covered this mumbo jumbo | Oct 22 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Like its documentary on string theory.. | Oct 22 16:44 |
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| *schestowitz moves on to watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmjxDad26VM | Oct 22 16:46 | |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Power of Nightmares .. One of the Best BBC Documentaries ever Part 1 .::. Size~: 133.11 KB | Oct 22 16:46 |
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| mutx | you think string theory is mumbo jumbo Roy ? | Oct 22 16:50 |
| JPerlow | mutx: I have to admit its a bit of a strange concept but I can't do the math | Oct 22 17:01 |
| mutx | yes, it is a very strange concept, but much of physics dont make any sense on normal human scales. | Oct 22 17:02 |
| mutx | and I cant do that math for it either. | Oct 22 17:02 |
| JPerlow | I've read kaku's books and also a few other m-theory books | Oct 22 17:03 |
| JPerlow | very weird stuff. | Oct 22 17:03 |
| mutx | yes it is weird, but so is a photon travelling through spece for 10 billion years, yet the photon experiences no distance or time elapsed, so a photon does not experience the dimention of time. | Oct 22 17:07 |
| mutx | or space or gravity. | Oct 22 17:07 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Latest spam/marketing from Crucial says it all.. "Windows 7 is here: Crucial can help you get enough memory" | Oct 22 17:33 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @Ruskin147 I'm told 100s of Linux and Apple fans are demonstrating outside TVC about my win7 coverage | Oct 22 17:35 | |
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| trmanco | http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium#5395358413061926434 | Oct 22 17:59 |
| trmanco | lol | Oct 22 17:59 |
| phIRCe | Title: Picasa Web Albums - Chris - Japan Linux S... .::. Size~: 29.39 KB | Oct 22 17:59 |
| schestowitz | "Nice trolling)" | Oct 22 18:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Quite a Timing: #Microsoft Senior Director Leaves http://ping.fm/g2LJa | Oct 22 18:24 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Quite a Timing: Microsoft Senior Director Leaves | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.87 KB | Oct 22 18:25 |
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| *crimsun is now known as jono | Oct 22 18:25 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] According to Fedora licensing guidelines 'WTFPL' is a good license ;) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing#Good_Licenses | Oct 22 18:29 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Licensing:Main - FedoraProject .::. Size~: 150.26 KB | Oct 22 18:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Seca do crl! | Oct 22 18:29 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Linus torvolts and windows 7 http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposium# (LOL) | Oct 22 18:34 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Picasa Web Albums - Chris - Japan Linux S... .::. Size~: 29.39 KB | Oct 22 18:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Putting 312 cans of drink and 144 mugs into the car for OggCamp! http://oggcamp.org/ | Oct 22 18:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Employee Wants the Company to Fire 20,000 More Staff http://ping.fm/qmSVj | Oct 22 18:44 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Microsoft Employee Wants the Company to Fire 20,000 More Staff | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.91 KB | Oct 22 18:45 |
| schestowitz | bbl | Oct 22 18:45 |
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| mutx | an anonamous MS employee LOL. sure !! | Oct 22 18:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | as a potential microsoft shareholder... why stop at 20k? | Oct 22 19:03 |
| mutx | does anyone here know what happend to RHT in 2001 to cause it's share price to drop from $160 to $3 ?? | Oct 22 19:18 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC NEWS | Business | Nokia suing Apple over the iPhone http://tinyurl.com/yfuqwb5 | Oct 22 19:28 | |
| phIRCe | Title: BBC NEWS | Business | Nokia suing Apple over the iPhone .::. Size~: 49.05 KB | Oct 22 19:29 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Mark'Oh - United (official video)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~f8ibl | Oct 22 19:46 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 28.31 KB | Oct 22 19:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Snoop Dogg - Gangsta Luv (Ft. The Dream) (Dirty) EXCLUSIVE 2009 DOWNLOAD LINK" ♫ http://blip.fm/~f8ik4 | Oct 22 19:50 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 28.31 KB | Oct 22 19:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Martin Roth & Alex Bartlett - Off The World (Gareth Emery rmx)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~f8iuv | Oct 22 19:55 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 28.31 KB | Oct 22 19:55 |
| mutx | please !!! why do we care what you're listening too ??? | Oct 22 19:56 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "David Guetta ft. Akon - Sexy Bitch (Official Video)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~f8j5q | Oct 22 20:00 | |
| phIRCe | Title: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 28.31 KB | Oct 22 20:00 |
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| trmanco | mutx: in case you haven't noticed... it's coming from twitter... | Oct 22 20:25 |
| trmanco | and you seem to be the only with problems about this... if you don't like it, ignore will do the job | Oct 22 20:27 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Quick poll for Britsh people.. Computer pop up windows - "Dialog" or "Dialogue"? | Oct 22 20:51 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @drew: Raising money for cancer research is NOT easy. It keeps me up at night. Drew Carey is making it possible. Follow @DrewFromTV | Oct 22 20:55 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Grayson Introduces Amendment to Stop People From Going #Broke or Homeless http://ur1.ca/e7et Elizabeth Warren http://ur1.ca/e7fw #hr3126 | Oct 22 21:12 | |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Alan Grayson Introduces Amendment to Stop People From Going Broke or Homeless .::. Size~: 178.1 KB | Oct 22 21:13 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - Professor Elizabeth Warren speaks about the Consumer Financial Protection Agency .::. Size~: 133.65 KB | Oct 22 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _Hicham_ | Oct 22 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Ah... I remember Elizabeth Warren | Oct 22 21:19 |
| fewa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A | Oct 22 21:23 |
| phIRCe | Title: YouTube - The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class .::. Size~: 163.24 KB | Oct 22 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Was it /you/ who showed it to me months ago? | Oct 22 21:23 |
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| fewa | yeah | Oct 22 21:26 |
| fewa | also Maxed Out | Oct 22 21:27 |
| fewa | on credit cards in the US | Oct 22 21:27 |
| fewa | and the assult on meaningful bankruptcy | Oct 22 21:27 |
| _Hicham_ | hi Lord Schestowitz | Oct 22 21:33 |
| fewa | sire Hicham? | Oct 22 21:34 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Seeds of Doubt in #BillGates Investments http://ping.fm/fEFJ8 | Oct 22 21:47 | |
| schestowitz | Mister _Hicham_. Been quiet recently? | Oct 22 21:49 |
| schestowitz | You must be working on an important project. | Oct 22 21:49 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: why do you refer to yourself as "we" in BN posts? | Oct 22 21:49 |
| oiaohm | Nice phoronix is starting to intergrate there performance tracking into main kernel development. | Oct 22 21:55 |
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| oiaohm | Something I have been meaning to ask do USA still use letter size paper a lot. | Oct 22 21:58 |
| voltronw | oiaohm: exclusively | Oct 22 21:59 |
| oiaohm | Here we are basically 100 percent A4 | Oct 22 22:00 |
| oiaohm | Its really annoying. | Oct 22 22:00 |
| fewa | why such a big deal | Oct 22 22:00 |
| fewa | they are almost the same size | Oct 22 22:00 |
| oiaohm | Install Printer drivers defaults to paper then printer refused to print. | Oct 22 22:01 |
| oiaohm | Because it cannot find letter and is only load with A4 | Oct 22 22:01 |
| voltronw | fewa: iso paper sizes are better because they are proportional to each other | Oct 22 22:01 |
| voltronw | fewa: as in A4 is half of A3 | Oct 22 22:02 |
| oiaohm | A5 is half A4 | Oct 22 22:02 |
| fewa | ahh thats cool | Oct 22 22:02 |
| fewa | half in area or demensions? | Oct 22 22:02 |
| oiaohm | Half one demension | Oct 22 22:02 |
| oiaohm | Half the longest demension and rotate page. | Oct 22 22:03 |
| fewa | part of American exceptionalism | Oct 22 22:03 |
| fewa | same with the metric system | Oct 22 22:03 |
| oiaohm | That process repeats for every A number increase. | Oct 22 22:03 |
| oiaohm | A0 is one very big bit of paper | Oct 22 22:04 |
| fewa | A4 (210 × 297 mm). | Oct 22 22:05 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A_size_illustration2_with_letter_and_legal.svg | Oct 22 22:05 |
| fewa | why such a wierd number | Oct 22 22:05 |
| oiaohm | Look at the full A fewa | Oct 22 22:05 |
| fewa | 1189 x 841 mm | Oct 22 22:05 |
| fewa | why so wierd | Oct 22 22:05 |
| fewa | why not the golden ratio? | Oct 22 22:06 |
| fewa | 1.4 ratio | Oct 22 22:06 |
| fewa | legal is golden ratio | Oct 22 22:07 |
| oiaohm | Number 1 there is a 1 mm allowance for cutting. | Oct 22 22:07 |
| oiaohm | In the full sizes. | Oct 22 22:07 |
| oiaohm | Its also the size paper that could be produced simply at the time the A standard was created fewa | Oct 22 22:08 |
| fewa | because it has the same width as legal? | Oct 22 22:08 |
| fewa | <oiaohm> Half one demension | Oct 22 22:09 |
| fewa | thats half area | Oct 22 22:09 |
| fewa | its the ratio so you can do that | Oct 22 22:09 |
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| fewa | with sqrt(2) ratio | Oct 22 22:09 |
| oiaohm | A0 is the production sheet size fewa | Oct 22 22:10 |
| oiaohm | At that the time A0 was created. Ie designed to cut down on waste. | Oct 22 22:10 |
| oiaohm | There is also http://www.papersizes.org/b-paper-sizes.htm B sizes I have never seen if there are C sizes | Oct 22 22:11 |
| oiaohm | that right C is envolopes | Oct 22 22:11 |
| MinceR | aren't B sizes used for books? | Oct 22 22:14 |
| oiaohm | A and B are both used in books. | Oct 22 22:15 |
| oiaohm | That is the other important thing about A and B due to the fact pages are scale you can print a stack of pages on a flat sheet then fold them up into a book. | Oct 22 22:15 |
| oiaohm | Also that they are a scale if you want to print book smaller no problem. | Oct 22 22:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Matthews picks health insurance talking points? with Weiner Before http://ur1.ca/e7mo After http://ur1.ca/e7mp From CNBC http://ur1.ca/bysr | Oct 22 22:18 | |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ANSI_size_illustration.svg Just to make the complete matter of paper confusing as hell. Ansi decided to use letters for sizes instead of numbers. | Oct 22 22:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sun , #Oracle , and #Microsoft Roles http://ping.fm/WJkEa | Oct 22 22:25 | |
| *WhatsRoyAfraidOf (i=795eb2fe@gateway/web/freenode/x-swdoefirblvjliqj) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 22:27 | |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Too bad, Roy's not around.... | Oct 22 22:27 |
| oiaohm | http://forum.winehq.org/viewtopic.php?t=6536 Some days people ask to do the most warped things to wine. | Oct 22 22:28 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | evidently asking simple questions isn't tolerated around here.... | Oct 22 22:28 |
| oiaohm | LOL WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Oct 22 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Of course roy would not be here now. | Oct 22 22:29 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | I'm still trying to understand where this claim that I've got multiple IDs on /. came from. | Oct 22 22:29 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | it's not as though he's got anything better to do. | Oct 22 22:29 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | =D | Oct 22 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Roy is in england WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Oct 22 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Check time. | Oct 22 22:30 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Yes, I'm well aware of that. | Oct 22 22:30 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | I guess that's why I'm not summarily kicked off. | Oct 22 22:30 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Back to the question. :) | Oct 22 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Writing style most likely. | Oct 22 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Yes can false positive. | Oct 22 22:31 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | asking embarassing questions, most likely. | Oct 22 22:31 |
| oiaohm | Most people have a pattern of words they like using WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Oct 22 22:32 |
| oiaohm | Fairly unique to writer. | Oct 22 22:32 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | aww, and little Brandon's not here, either. 悲しいよ！ | Oct 22 22:32 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | :'( | Oct 22 22:32 |
| oiaohm | Mistakes do happen. | Oct 22 22:33 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | I'm surprised more of you haven't voted in my polls.... | Oct 22 22:33 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | Or maybe all of you _did_. =/ | Oct 22 22:33 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | When asked whether this site was a good source of news and analysis, 8/10 respondent in my pols answered "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" | Oct 22 22:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Sitting down for a good shouting at the telly session with BBC Question Time #bbcqt | Oct 22 22:34 | |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | The logs from the 19th are quite entertaining. | Oct 22 22:36 |
| WhatsRoyAfraidOf | If "twitter" was trying to make himself look better, or even sane, I'd have to say it was a failed effort. | Oct 22 22:37 |
| *trmanco gives channel operator status to MinceR | Oct 22 22:41 | |
| *MinceR sets ban on *!?=795eb2fe@* | Oct 22 22:41 | |
| *MinceR has kicked WhatsRoyAfraidOf from #boycottnovell (you're not welcome here) | Oct 22 22:41 | |
| oiaohm | Ok who was that. | Oct 22 22:42 |
| trmanco | LOL | Oct 22 22:43 |
| oiaohm | luxsux or something. | Oct 22 22:43 |
| trmanco | no really | Oct 22 22:43 |
| trmanco | not* | Oct 22 22:43 |
| MinceR | lefty | Oct 22 22:43 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 22 22:44 | |
| oiaohm | O that fool. Dumb enough to post the exact same thing under multi users names with the same text. | Oct 22 22:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Julian will visit me next weekend (we're still friends). Needs help with Fedroa 8 (Werewolf). I think he understands the benefits of LNX. | Oct 22 22:45 | |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzYyNQ Now this might at long last deal with the distrobution not agreeing on package management. | Oct 22 22:47 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I wasn't paying attention | Oct 22 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Just finished 3 posts, gonna take a shower. | Oct 22 22:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Banshee is #Novell , #Mono , and ‘Forbidden’ #Microsoft #SoftwarePatents http://ping.fm/J9bS0 #swpat | Oct 22 22:49 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Needs to install Fedora 8 for his study (Nope, I didn't talked him into it) :-p | Oct 22 22:51 | |
| oiaohm | Does not matter schestowitz person wanting to challage you should only really do it at suitable times for your timezone. | Oct 22 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Hey, that's new: http://channeldvorak.com/ | Oct 22 23:02 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20091021/1759416629.shtml | Oct 22 23:04 |
| schestowitz | AP tries to stamp text http://www.townnews.com/articles/2009/10/20/publishers/doc4addf01ea5024023034442.txt | Oct 22 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | Anyone hear about the Windows 7 burger? | Oct 22 23:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-nu-subpoena-19-oct19,0,141534,full.story | Oct 22 23:06 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: Diablo-D3 posted a photo of it | Oct 22 23:06 |
| sebsebseb | http://go.theregister.com/feed/www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/10/22/windows_burger/ | Oct 22 23:06 |
| schestowitz | There's tons of TV ads today about Vista 7 | Oct 22 23:06 |
| schestowitz | Very poor ads, IMHO | Oct 22 23:06 |
| schestowitz | I saw a few earlier | Oct 22 23:06 |
| sebsebseb | I have only seen this burger so far | Oct 22 23:06 |
| schestowitz | "I made it" or "it's my idea" is the motto | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | In Aussie they use "security" | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | I find that hilarious | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | They know it's not more secure, but VIsta 7 has no selling points | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Remember Seinfeld and shows? | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | *Shoes | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | It figures. Vista and Vista 7 are about... nothing | Oct 22 23:07 |
| schestowitz | "It's a show... about NOTHING". | Oct 22 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | I guess I never saw the proper Seinfield advert | Oct 22 23:07 |
| MinceR | i wonder how much they paid BK for this | Oct 22 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | would be rather filling and unhealthey | Oct 22 23:08 |
| schestowitz | Seinfeld (the Show about Nothing TV-Promo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjDnGBrhhaQ | Oct 22 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | there double whoopers and a bit basicalley | Oct 22 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | three above | Oct 22 23:08 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: Vista 7 gives you coronary disease | Oct 22 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Then you need to have a surgery called McAfee or Norton | Oct 22 23:09 |
| sebsebseb | well Microsoft have a free basic virus protection product now | Oct 22 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Linux too | Oct 22 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu 9.10 release candidate also today | Oct 22 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | on the verge of vming it, since my install here that I been doing since alpha 4 well... | Oct 22 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | last night I was trying Mandriva 2010 RC1 Gnome in vm, that I had downloaded a while ago, RC2 being out now | Oct 22 23:13 |
| sebsebseb | seems ok | Oct 22 23:13 |
| schestowitz | I'm waiting for Mandriva 2010 | Oct 22 23:13 |
| sebsebseb | maybe the KDE 4 version is better some how, but I don't like KDE 4 much | Oct 22 23:13 |
| sebsebseb | the one I tried didn't seem that special | Oct 22 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | seems can set loads of stuff up using a nice graphical interface, Ubuntu should be more like that really | Oct 22 23:15 |
| sebsebseb | well I already knew about the control centre, and I had tried doing Mandriva before in vm, but stuff would go wrong etc | Oct 22 23:15 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz also when I installed that Mandriva into vm, it seems I coudn't do Ext4 or something hmm | Oct 22 23:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] http://popey.com/~alan/dialog.png is why I asked about dialog/dialogue. Pondered whether this was a bug or not. | Oct 22 23:17 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/22/twitter-is-for-old-people-0 | Oct 22 23:21 |
| sebsebseb | hmm got someone that is telling me again that they want to buy a Mac, plus now they have new designs or something | Oct 22 23:23 |
| oiaohm | Mandriva gnome is scary vm or not sebsebseb | Oct 22 23:24 |
| oiaohm | Most of mandriva developers focus on KDE. | Oct 22 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | oh so your saying the Gnome version sucks really? | Oct 22 23:25 |
| schestowitz | It's more future-looking | Oct 22 23:25 |
| schestowitz | GNOME rests a little too much on its laurels IMHO, with little improvement to gtk too | Oct 22 23:25 |
| schestowitz | jono complained about this | Oct 22 23:25 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: maybe they added more gnome focus when kde 4.0 was out | Oct 22 23:25 |
| schestowitz | They couldn't quite serve .0 to the clients | Oct 22 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Now the tide is shifting | Oct 22 23:26 |
| schestowitz | And GNOME shall enter 3.0, which might lead to similar temporary instability | Oct 22 23:26 |
| schestowitz | GNOME releases often, with small changes | Oct 22 23:26 |
| schestowitz | Uneven numbers are less stable | Oct 22 23:26 |
| schestowitz | I got some mail about this... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/nokia_sues_apple_iphone/ | Oct 22 23:27 |
| schestowitz | Nokia shows it's a patent whore | Oct 22 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | ok this Gnome KDE thing I wasn't following or uhmm understanding fully | Oct 22 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | KDE 4 is more future looking? | Oct 22 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | Gnome doesn't give back to GTK much? | Oct 22 23:28 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: extensible | Oct 22 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Qt's latest had nice stuff | Oct 22 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Let me find demos | Oct 22 23:28 |
| MinceR | aren't they making Gnome 3? | Oct 22 23:28 |
| sebsebseb | every time I tried KDE 4 as GUI, I would be like eww no, this is to differnet to KDE 3 | Oct 22 23:28 |
| sebsebseb | maybe if I customize a bit though here and there I can get something I like | Oct 22 23:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4 | Oct 22 23:29 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I didn't want to customize it, I just wanted defaults that I was happy with | Oct 22 23:29 |
| schestowitz | It also has OGL-enabled features | Oct 22 23:29 |
| schestowitz | So that you can have many overlapping objects | Oct 22 23:29 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, Shuttlewotth spoke about the possibility of Qt-based gbnome | Oct 22 23:30 |
| schestowitz | http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/14/1245204 | Oct 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | http://derstandard.at/fs/3413801 | Oct 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mark_Shuttleworth_Sees_Possibility_For_a_QT_based_GNOME | Oct 22 23:31 |
| voltronw | schestowitz: that article is 2 years old. no work has been done toward that goal | Oct 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Lily quits tecynology: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/22/luddite_allen/ | Oct 22 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Maybe she was getting abuse for being anti-advancement | Oct 22 23:32 |
| schestowitz | voltronw: July 2008 | Oct 22 23:33 |
| cubezzz | all the news places are talking about windows 7 | Oct 22 23:33 |
| oiaohm | I am the other way over sebsebseb I work with KDE 4.3 and like it. | Oct 22 23:33 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz yeah BBC technolgoy section probably have something not seen that yet | Oct 22 23:34 |
| sebsebseb | apparantly consumer support for XP, Vista, and 7, all run out in 2014 | Oct 22 23:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] So Microsoft lied all along about Blu-ray? http://ping.fm/REZJU | Oct 22 23:34 | |
| sebsebseb | or whatever someone here was saying the other day | Oct 22 23:35 |
| cubezzz | sebsebseb, then what? | Oct 22 23:35 |
| cubezzz | oh that's right, 128-bit windows :) | Oct 22 23:35 |
| sebsebseb | extended support for business | Oct 22 23:35 |
| sebsebseb | and there will be a new version of Windows in 2014 I expect or just before then | Oct 22 23:36 |
| oiaohm | Next 12 months the Linux push will expand. | Oct 22 23:36 |
| cubezzz | I already thought XP was too slow | Oct 22 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | I have heard of some sales department going Debian about a month ago | Oct 22 23:37 |
| cubezzz | but whatever, I don't really use it | Oct 22 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | ,but also yesterday evening about a hospital going OpenSuse | Oct 22 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | I don't have full details | Oct 22 23:37 |
| oiaohm | X11 getting released on time is going to shock a lot of people. | Oct 22 23:37 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: 128-slice toaster | Oct 22 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Never has happened in the complete history of the X11 project yet. | Oct 22 23:38 |
| sebsebseb | and when companies and such go Linux, some of the employees want to at home. | Oct 22 23:38 |
| schestowitz | oR GOVTs | Oct 22 23:38 |
| *schestowitz disabled CAPS | Oct 22 23:38 | |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: no really most cases more work gets done. | Oct 22 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Govt->business->home | Oct 22 23:38 |
| sebsebseb | Sales department went Debian, and then a woman wanted help with Ubuntu | Oct 22 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Thus EDGI, ousting of Peter Quinn.... | Oct 22 23:39 |
| sebsebseb | hospital went opensuse, so another woman bought a Linux magazine, and ended up putting Ubuntu on | Oct 22 23:39 |
| cubezzz | I might try the Fedora 12 beta | Oct 22 23:40 |
| cubezzz | or just go Fedora 11 | Oct 22 23:40 |
| sebsebseb | this idea that people use what works use though hmm, well if enough home users went Desktop Linux, I think small businesses and such would start to as well actsaulley | Oct 22 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Not the way it works sebsebseb | Oct 22 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Most people use at home what they use at work. | Oct 22 23:40 |
| cubezzz | I never did :) | Oct 22 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Most businesses use what is taught in schools. | Oct 22 23:41 |
| oiaohm | So forget worrying about home or business covert schools win. | Oct 22 23:41 |
| oiaohm | MS came aware of this early on. | Oct 22 23:41 |
| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 23:41 | |
| cubezzz | I have to admit, Microsoft does hit the schools | Oct 22 23:42 |
| cubezzz | wouldn't mind so much if it was a 50/50 split | Oct 22 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer Blames the Failure of Windows Vista on Security http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/ballmer_blames.html | Oct 22 23:42 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: f13 plan is out | Oct 22 23:43 |
| oiaohm | There is a growing number of countires now with pure Linux school system. | Oct 22 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Oct 22 23:43 |
| oiaohm | Long term results is those countries will mostly run on Linux | Oct 22 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Mostly SA | Oct 22 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Brazil | Oct 22 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Some in Europe | Oct 22 23:43 |
| *cubezzz nods | Oct 22 23:43 | |
| schestowitz | Particular regions | Oct 22 23:43 |
| schestowitz | And Russia soon | Oct 22 23:43 |
| cubezzz | Canada is really behind in this regard | Oct 22 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Not just the Pram region | Oct 22 23:44 |
| oiaohm | Windows 7 does nothing to address the secuirty problem. | Oct 22 23:44 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: coz' CA speaks Enlighs | Oct 22 23:44 |
| schestowitz | The English-speaking countries are diplomatic with Gates & Cronies | Oct 22 23:44 |
| cubezzz | and French don't forget | Oct 22 23:44 |
| schestowitz | No | Oct 22 23:44 |
| schestowitz | France has Sarko | Oct 22 23:45 |
| oiaohm | IBM is going to make a push at the desktop. | Oct 22 23:45 |
| schestowitz | The whore of US business | Oct 22 23:45 |
| schestowitz | But French people resent the US | Oct 22 23:45 |
| schestowitz | More so than some of Europe | Oct 22 23:45 |
| *Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 22 23:45 | |
| schestowitz | And they want their own software and cuisine and lifestyle | Oct 22 23:45 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, I meant French as in Quebec :) | Oct 22 23:45 |
| schestowitz | France is said to be #1 FOSS adopter in EU ATM | Oct 22 23:46 |
| schestowitz | I was in Quebec some years ago and some don't speak English | Oct 22 23:46 |
| cubezzz | that's true | Oct 22 23:46 |
| schestowitz | It's like country inside a country | Oct 22 23:46 |
| cubezzz | most of the Montrealers do though | Oct 22 23:46 |
| schestowitz | Vancouver has a lot of Chinese immigration | Oct 22 23:46 |
| schestowitz | I had a flatmate from there many years ago | Oct 22 23:47 |
| oiaohm | Thing is open source has been making progress. Just lots of people want to disregard it. | Oct 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Free software | Oct 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Libre | Oct 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | In SA | Oct 22 23:47 |
| oiaohm | http://sandboxgamemaker.com/ Now we are starting to see this. | Oct 22 23:47 |
| schestowitz | Matter of independence, not just coding | Oct 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | So open source does not have enough games. | Oct 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Lets make it simple for people to create games. So long term fixing the problem. | Oct 22 23:48 |
| schestowitz | LINA is coming | Oct 22 23:49 |
| schestowitz | 1.0 beta | Oct 22 23:49 |
| cubezzz | ncurses games ftw | Oct 22 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Like open source is not lacking 2d games. | Oct 22 23:49 |
| oiaohm | Its mostly lacking 3d games. | Oct 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Linux advocate ravi is coming back.. http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/10/blogger-to-wordpress-migration-step-by.html | Oct 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: >> you are in a maze with 2 openings | Oct 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | pick dagger | Oct 22 23:50 |
| cubezzz | WIndows and Linux doors? :) | Oct 22 23:50 |
| schestowitz | >> you have no hands | Oct 22 23:50 |
| cubezzz | I still play Lands of Lore sometimes | Oct 22 23:51 |
| cubezzz | on dosbox | Oct 22 23:51 |
| *chm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 22 23:52 | |
| schestowitz | I had Street Brawler a while back | Oct 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Some emulators ran it at the wrong speeds | Oct 22 23:52 |
| cubezzz | I'd buy a nice Linux adventure game for certain | Oct 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | It's good to know that nostalgia is salvageable shall you ever wish to rerun it | Oct 22 23:52 |
| schestowitz | If you want a Linux adventure get LFS | Oct 22 23:53 |
| cubezzz | uhhh | Oct 22 23:53 |
| cubezzz | I did actually | Oct 22 23:53 |
| oiaohm | http://au.gamespot.com/newthisweek.html?date=20091022&type=new_this_week&mode=all&sort=rdate&dlx_type=all&sortdir=asc&official=all%20B Notice something here. | Oct 22 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Hmm | Oct 22 23:53 |
| oiaohm | I was not going for bold. | Oct 22 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Numbers of PC games being released these days. | Oct 22 23:54 |
| cubezzz | yeah it's decreasing | Oct 22 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Masively so. | Oct 22 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Like that is only 2 games a week. | Oct 22 23:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Animals are welcomed to the 21st century. Mildly disturbing. http://ping.fm/jFOv3 (via rms) | Oct 22 23:54 | |
| oiaohm | How long until is 2 games a month. | Oct 22 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Depleted Uranium Weapons: The Dead Babies in Iraq and Afghanistan Are No Joke http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/?q=node/400 | Oct 22 23:55 |
| schestowitz | RMS: "3/4 of the babies born in Falluja are deformed — probably because of Dirty Uranium used by the Bush forces. Countries which are allied with the US should think twice about whether to allow the US to "defend" them in such a deadly fashion." | Oct 22 23:55 |
| schestowitz | So... | Oct 22 23:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] US forces go to take away imaginary weapons of mass destruction and use some themselves http://ping.fm/MEIN5 | Oct 22 23:57 | |
| schestowitz | Stupid neocons | Oct 22 23:59 |
| schestowitz | War crimes. | Oct 22 23:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "President Obama is fighting back against FOX." http://ping.fm/cjzFU | Oct 22 23:59 | |
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