IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 25th, 2009

*Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-kueadeukxglyfxws) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 00:04
Chips_B_Malroy	Why should Mrs Zhou work for one month to buy Windows 7? http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/sinobytes/post.htm?id=63014447&scid=hm_bl Quote: "In China the upgrade won't come cheap, with the top version of Windows 7 - dubbed 'Ultimate' - costing the equivalent of a month's salary for the average Chinese office worker (the average Mrs Zhou, so to speak) at a low-to-medium level desk-job (that's about 2500 RMB; USD 366)"	Oct 25 00:05
Chips_B_Malroy	Windows 7 Launch Parties Fizzle http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/174237/windows_7_launch_parties_fizzle.html	Oct 25 00:06
fewa	Chips_B_Malroy, who cares?	Oct 25 00:08
Chips_B_Malroy	well, only those who use windows I guess Fewa	Oct 25 00:08
fewa	even then they dont give a shit about the advertising	Oct 25 00:09
Chips_B_Malroy	the parties were a joke, and a distraction	Oct 25 00:10
fewa	exactly my point	Oct 25 00:12
fewa	any coverage is good coverage	Oct 25 00:12
fewa	you have to understand that	Oct 25 00:13
Chips_B_Malroy	especially that which is almost free	Oct 25 00:13
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] This kid has a future in the NHL http://ur1.ca/ed4b		Oct 25 00:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Launch Said to Have Failed http://ping.fm/DPaRd		Oct 25 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Recites #Microsoft -Funded Lies About #Vista7 http://ping.fm/R5FF9 #idc #propaganda		Oct 25 00:26
schestowitz	fewa: what do you think about these posts	Oct 25 00:35
schestowitz	I don't think they serve as much of an advertiser	Oct 25 00:35
schestowitz	They don't repeat conventional PR points	Oct 25 00:35
fewa	its just that Chris was posting in here	Oct 25 00:35
schestowitz	Rather they show the issues	Oct 25 00:35
fewa	and I dont think anyone in here cares	Oct 25 00:35
schestowitz	Chips or Chris?	Oct 25 00:35
fewa	Chips :p	Oct 25 00:35
schestowitz	Yes, I agree what he cites is bad	Oct 25 00:35
schestowitz	That's the type of stuff I ignore	Oct 25 00:36
fewa	putting it out there, breaking the noise is good	Oct 25 00:36
schestowitz	Sob stories and fluff from CNET	Oct 25 00:36
fewa	and when its just covering the marketing	Oct 25 00:36
fewa	its junk	Oct 25 00:36
schestowitz	Or the fancy dramatic headlines that contain VIsta 7 boosting	Oct 25 00:36
fewa	useless	Oct 25 00:36
fewa	its begging the question	Oct 25 00:36
fewa	and advertising something noone heard about or gives a iota about	Oct 25 00:36
schestowitz	Armed with a cup of tea, I am doing a marathon of posts ATM :-))	Oct 25 00:37
fewa	cup o' tea :P	Oct 25 00:38
fewa	how brit of u	Oct 25 00:38
fewa	here in the US people drink that black tar stuff	Oct 25 00:38
schestowitz	Saying "Vista 7' makes people think too	Oct 25 00:39
fewa	yeah its good	Oct 25 00:39
fewa	break the noise	Oct 25 00:39
schestowitz	It makes them mix "7" with its predecessor and base	Oct 25 00:39
schestowitz	Which the press now says "is dead"	Oct 25 00:39
schestowitz	Nobody would buy Vista now	Oct 25 00:39
fewa	bury the failure as quick as possible	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	[00:38] <fewa> here in the US people drink that black tar stuff	Oct 25 00:40
fewa	and try to rebrand it	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	I used to 'do' coffeee	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	fewa: Mojave	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	Only for real	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	It's not so fa apart	Oct 25 00:40
fewa	yep	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	Mojave: 2008	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	And then SP2	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	Then Vista 7 beta	Oct 25 00:40
fewa	its always amazing how much the plans of these elites are in the open	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	Only for selected journos	Oct 25 00:40
schestowitz	The others got kicked out	Oct 25 00:40
fewa	not just on "trivial" matters of technology	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Not to be given laptop bribes at PDC (IIRC) from W-E	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	its just about listening for it	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Trend setting media	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Trend setting media	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	and then acting on what you read	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Trend setting media	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Set the tone	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Vista 7 is good	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	The empoeror looks good in boxers	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	and not succumbing to the propaganda	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	you have to _be bold_	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	and say it	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Oh	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	it wasn't beta BTW	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	what all the other smart people are thinking	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	It was pre-beta	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Only shown to like 20 people	Oct 25 00:41
fewa	thats what Grayson has hit on the nail	Oct 25 00:41
schestowitz	Like Ed Bott	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	And other known Microsoft shills	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	Or dans	Oct 25 00:42
fewa	"I'm just saying what everyone else is hearing"	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	*Fans	Oct 25 00:42
fewa	*thinking	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	Those whom you give a $2000 laptop would love the product and company either way	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	MVP treatment	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	I'm seeing some bad reviews	Oct 25 00:42
schestowitz	People buy Vista 7 and it's like VIsta	Oct 25 00:42
fewa	I likes the takers that braged about it	Oct 25 00:43
fewa	and such	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	No printer, games don't run, etc.	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	They'll run to XP some of them..	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	They are not gurus!!	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	They don't know what virtualisation means	Oct 25 00:43
fewa	aka this: http://www.oreillynet.com/xml/blog/2007/01/an_interesting_offer.html	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	No longer do MSDN subs (techNet) use this	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	Now it's down to John and Jane	Oct 25 00:43
fewa	Rick Jelliffe bragging about taking bribes	Oct 25 00:43
schestowitz	Yeah.	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	I know.	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	He hates me for writing about this a lot	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	But he's detested by many anyway	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	He sorta vanished from docs debate	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	Not seen anything from him in almost 1 years, at least 6 months	Oct 25 00:44
fewa	he asked for it	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	Not even wikipedia edits	Oct 25 00:44
schestowitz	Just very few	Oct 25 00:44
fewa	it was immediately pointed out	Oct 25 00:45
schestowitz	Then I exposed him some months ago	Oct 25 00:45
schestowitz	Before Weird flipped the table	Oct 25 00:45
fewa	"Since you openly admit to being paid my Microsoft you immediately destroy any credibility as a neutral commentator. End of story."	Oct 25 00:45
schestowitz	*Wier	Oct 25 00:45
schestowitz	*Weir	Oct 25 00:45
fewa	what should be obvious	Oct 25 00:45
fewa	Weir is a good rationalist	Oct 25 00:45
schestowitz	it's also Dough	Oct 25 00:45
schestowitz	Elephant in the Room Doug	Oct 25 00:45
fewa	you just state the facts that show hypocricy	Oct 25 00:46
schestowitz	Malaysia/US citizen	Oct 25 00:46
fewa	not very complicated	Oct 25 00:46
schestowitz	Depending on the day and card	Oct 25 00:46
fewa	thats what you do	Oct 25 00:46
fewa	will make change	Oct 25 00:46
fewa	and you do it consistantly	Oct 25 00:46
schestowitz	As FFII guy puts it, "some peopel change gender, Doug changes hats"	Oct 25 00:46
schestowitz	Doug came to Rick with the money	Oct 25 00:46
schestowitz	Lund, the other shills, brags to me when Doug buys him a sandwich	Oct 25 00:46
schestowitz	They are all having a good time at the bar	Oct 25 00:47
schestowitz	Brown also	Oct 25 00:47
schestowitz	The same bunch	Oct 25 00:47
schestowitz	Lund and Brown are friends	Oct 25 00:47
schestowitz	And Doug is there w/ them	Oct 25 00:47
schestowitz	It's funny when FFII goes through their photos and shows them hanging out together	Oct 25 00:47
schestowitz	Lund, Brown and Microsoft	Oct 25 00:47
fewa	doug is halarious	Oct 25 00:48
fewa	so immature	Oct 25 00:49
fewa	just amkes Microsoft look like the underdog	Oct 25 00:49
fewa	o guess this isn't Doug	Oct 25 00:51
fewa	http://blogs.technet.com/gray_knowlton/archive/2009/05/06/rethinking-odf-leadership.aspx	Oct 25 00:51
fewa	but still	Oct 25 00:51
fewa	its obvious they are loosing	Oct 25 00:51
fewa	when they have to stoop so low	Oct 25 00:51
fewa	Facts v. Ad Hominem	Oct 25 00:52
schestowitz	Oh	Oct 25 00:54
schestowitz	Knolton	Oct 25 00:54
schestowitz	Let me find s/t	Oct 25 00:54
schestowitz	Cause he hates me too	Oct 25 00:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows #Zombies Cost #Advertisers Billions http://ping.fm/crDj1		Oct 25 00:55
fewa	"hate"	Oct 25 00:55
fewa	thats it	Oct 25 00:55
_Hicham_	schestowitz : how comes that Mutex_ is back ?	Oct 25 00:55
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/13/gray-knowlton-will-be-happy/	Oct 25 00:55
schestowitz	Follow the link for context	Oct 25 00:55
schestowitz	I didn't make this picture, someone from IRC did	Oct 25 00:55
schestowitz	_Hicham_: he was given another chance -- a right to which he does not deserve based on today's behaviour	Oct 25 00:56
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schestowitz	Hey	Oct 25 00:57
_Hicham_	schestowitz : I like this channel's democracy	Oct 25 00:58
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_goblin	hi all.	Oct 25 01:05
_goblin	just back from work....	Oct 25 01:05
_Hicham_	_goblin : the big G plz :)	Oct 25 01:06
fewa	Google?	Oct 25 01:06
_goblin	lol	Oct 25 01:07
_goblin	ok	Oct 25 01:07
*_goblin is now known as _Goblin		Oct 25 01:07
_Hicham_	_goblin : thanks :)	Oct 25 01:07
fewa	ɢ	Oct 25 01:08
fewa	or this one: ɠ	Oct 25 01:08
_Hicham_	_goblin : how is it going with Wolvix ?	Oct 25 01:08
_Goblin	great	Oct 25 01:08
_Goblin	although, Ive been doing a little distro hopping and found a few new favs	Oct 25 01:09
_Hicham_	tell us	Oct 25 01:09
*fewa is now known as fe		Oct 25 01:09
_Goblin	Mandriva...surprise to me since its KDE	Oct 25 01:09
*fe is now known as fewa		Oct 25 01:10
_Goblin	Puppy Linux was also a hit in the home of the Goblin.	Oct 25 01:11
_Goblin	and Im looking again at #!CBL	Oct 25 01:11
_Goblin	“let those who have Windows 7 receive thy pity for they know not what they do..” – Goblin 3:16	Oct 25 01:12
_Goblin	and for the BN trolls that is a mickey take of an email I recieved claiming Linux Zealots.......Its mentioned on my site.	Oct 25 01:13
_Hicham_	Mutex_ is silent	Oct 25 01:13
_Hicham_	otherwise he would have defended Windows again	Oct 25 01:13
_Goblin	yeah....I think I upset him earlier.....	Oct 25 01:13
fewa	_Goblin, upset a troll?	Oct 25 01:13
_Goblin	I spend 1hr running rings around him.	Oct 25 01:13
_Goblin	it was a good time filler whilst I waited to go to work.	Oct 25 01:14
_Hicham_	is he a microsoft puppet ?	Oct 25 01:14
_Hicham_	is he paid by them ?	Oct 25 01:14
_Goblin	I wouldn't think so.	Oct 25 01:14
_Hicham_	by the way, Fedora 12 looks promising with its new Power Management Feature	Oct 25 01:15
_Goblin	Its more like he's a disgruntled Lins#x forum member who wants to get back at BN because Lins#x can't get any support.	Oct 25 01:15
_Hicham_	gotta test my laptop with it	Oct 25 01:15
_Hicham_	and see how long the battery can last	Oct 25 01:15
_Goblin	Fedora 12.....yep Ive looked and liked!	Oct 25 01:15
schestowitz		Oct 25 01:15
schestowitz	[00:58] <_Hicham_> schestowitz : I like this channel's democracy	Oct 25 01:15
schestowitz	Cool, thanks.	Oct 25 01:15
_Hicham_	schestowitz : wanna do a pushup contest with me ?	Oct 25 01:16
schestowitz	_Hicham_: yes, F12 gets good reviews	Oct 25 01:16
schestowitz	The developers of it are excited about it	Oct 25 01:17
schestowitz	_Hicham_: sure, but how?	Oct 25 01:17
schestowitz	Tomorrow there's another competition	Oct 25 01:17
_Hicham_	_Goblin : u sure he wants to get back to BN ?	Oct 25 01:17
_Hicham_	really ?	Oct 25 01:17
_Goblin	just trying to make sense out of his actions....he has such a weak stance, I couldn't think of any other reason.	Oct 25 01:18
_Goblin	he had a plethora of claims to make.....	Oct 25 01:18
_Goblin	apparently Im Roy's guard dog.	Oct 25 01:19
_Goblin	growl...	Oct 25 01:19
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Diablo-D3	hawt	Oct 25 01:19
_Hicham_	bad Diablo-D3 :)	Oct 25 01:20
_Goblin	talking of which here's mine: http://www.twitpic.com/1oyeq	Oct 25 01:21
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-173-64-154-25.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 01:21
yuhong	Curious to see your reaction to this slashdot article:	Oct 25 01:21
Diablo-D3	bwhah	Oct 25 01:21
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yuhong	http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/24/166241/A-Tale-of-Two-Windows-7s	Oct 25 01:22
yuhong	(This should be fun!)	Oct 25 01:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Bypasses the Law and Breaks the #Web for #Opera and #GNU #Linux Users, Again http://ping.fm/Nfvkt		Oct 25 01:26
yuhong	Curious to see your reaction to this slashdot article:	Oct 25 01:27
yuhong	http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/24/166241/A-Tale-of-Two-Windows-7s	Oct 25 01:27
yuhong	(This should be fun!)	Oct 25 01:27
schestowitz	[01:19] <_Goblin> apparently Im Roy's guard dog.	Oct 25 01:28
schestowitz	That's a psychological strategy	Oct 25 01:28
schestowitz	The USENET trolls use it too	Oct 25 01:28
schestowitz	They insult people's intelligence	Oct 25 01:28
yuhong	I agree, extremely silly.	Oct 25 01:28
schestowitz	Suggesting that they are parrots of someone else	Oct 25 01:28
schestowitz	Some people would say I parrot RMS or something	Oct 25 01:28
yuhong	Anyway, curious to see your reaction to this slashdot article:	Oct 25 01:28
yuhong	http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/24/166241/A-Tale-of-Two-Windows-7s	Oct 25 01:28
schestowitz	When in fact I disagree with RMS on issues	Oct 25 01:28
yuhong	(This should be fun!)	Oct 25 01:28
_Goblin	funny thing was, I wanted him to make an allegation of me....he tried and then fell flat on his face....	Oct 25 01:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Get it sorted Voldemort! - " Windows 7 Upgrade Emerging Problem" http://tinyurl.com/yjjn7h2 #microsoft #windows #xp #vista #fail		Oct 25 01:29
_Hicham_	yuhong : stop spamming	Oct 25 01:29
schestowitz	yuhong: reading	Oct 25 01:29
yuhong	OK, I just want to ensure you have received it.	Oct 25 01:29
schestowitz	yuhong: it's a Microsoft ad	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	No use for that	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	Slashvertisment	Oct 25 01:30
yuhong	It isn't.	Oct 25 01:30
yuhong	I don't think so.	Oct 25 01:30
yuhong	It mentions BOTH sides.	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/02/28/microsoft-slashvertisements-apache/	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	yuhong: hehe	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	Which both sides?	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	See the imbalance	Oct 25 01:30
yuhong	"It was the best of operating systems, it was the worst of operating systems. When it comes to the merits of Windows 7, it looks like Slate's Farhad Manjoo and PC Magazine's John Dvorak are going to have to agree to disagree. Manjoo gives Windows 7 a big thumbs-up (a sincere one, unlike Linus!), calling it a 'crowning achievement,' while Dvorak is less than impressed, saying, 'Win 7 is...	Oct 25 01:30
yuhong	...really just a Vista martini. The operating system may have two olives instead of one this time out, but it's still made with the same cheap Microsoft vodka.' So, for those of you who've had a chance to check things out, are things really different this time?"	Oct 25 01:30
schestowitz	Even tossing in Linus humour as validation	Oct 25 01:31
schestowitz	yuhong: it's fluffy	Oct 25 01:31
yuhong	Why?	Oct 25 01:31
schestowitz	"Your Account Has Been Compromised !"	Oct 25 01:31
schestowitz	Oh, no	Oct 25 01:31
schestowitz	My E-mail says my bank was compromised :-)	Oct 25 01:32
yuhong	It mentions Slate's Farhad Manjoo as pro Windows 7 and PC Magazine's John Dvorak as anti-Windows 7.	Oct 25 01:32
schestowitz	So muc junk, always from OE or Outlook	Oct 25 01:32
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:32
schestowitz	Farhad Manjoo	Oct 25 01:32
schestowitz	Haha	Oct 25 01:32
schestowitz	He's a big shill	Oct 25 01:32
fewa	all from WIndows computers	Oct 25 01:32
yuhong	Evidence?	Oct 25 01:32
schestowitz	http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+Farhad+Manjoo+&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GB	Oct 25 01:32
fewa	the most massive organized sydicate in eistance	Oct 25 01:32
schestowitz	Slate is Microsoft site	Oct 25 01:33
schestowitz	Now Washpost	Oct 25 01:33
schestowitz	Melinda French Patentates	Oct 25 01:33
schestowitz	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+slate&aq=f&oq=&aqi=	Oct 25 01:33
schestowitz	fewa: yes, zombies and spam are Windows	Oct 25 01:33
schestowitz	I have a great expose of the Gateses coming	Oct 25 01:34
schestowitz	Someone who looks at them exclusively mailed me today	Oct 25 01:34
schestowitz	Turns out he's a BN fan :-)	Oct 25 01:34
fewa	and this bullshit: http://blogs.msdn.com/dmahugh/archive/2009/05/09/1-2-1.aspx	Oct 25 01:37
yuhong	Well, I was expecting a fun flamewar.	Oct 25 01:38
cubezzz	I'm sure there's lots of people who don't like Gates	Oct 25 01:39
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:40
yuhong	Also noticed I already debunked some of the articles on BN on Vista 7.	Oct 25 01:42
_Goblin	nice find here.....if you want to see Windows 7 issues in real time, check out this twitter account:	Oct 25 01:47
_Goblin	http://twitter.com/MicrosoftHelps	Oct 25 01:47
fewa	nice	Oct 25 01:47
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_Goblin	theres some excellent quotes in there for my blog articles...	Oct 25 01:48
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cubezzz	I'd rather not even look at that	Oct 25 01:50
cubezzz	life is too short to look at windows problems	Oct 25 01:50
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yuhong	I know, in fact I read that MS created a lot of twitter accounts for WIndows 7.	Oct 25 01:52
fewa	lots of unofficial shills too	Oct 25 01:52
_Goblin	true, if it were a level playing field....but the MS faithful use dishonest methods to suggest Windows 7 is the ultimate....better that a user makes a decision based on informed choice.	Oct 25 01:52
fewa	yuhong, http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/10/exclusive-us-spies-buy-stake-in-twitter-blog-monitoring-firm/	Oct 25 01:53
fewa	this company has contracts with MSFT	Oct 25 01:53
fewa	http://www.democracynow.org/2009/10/22/cia_invests_in_software_firm_monitoring	Oct 25 01:53
_Goblin	cubezzz: "life is too short to look at windows problems" - Very true, I don't think anyone would be able to live long enough to be able to cover all of them...	Oct 25 01:54
fewa	and you cant fix them	Oct 25 01:54
fewa	as opposed to Linux problems	Oct 25 01:54
fewa	thats why Windows will die	Oct 25 01:54
_Goblin	fewa: Don't forget though, its never MS's fault.	Oct 25 01:55
_Goblin	fewa: and "it will be better next time"	Oct 25 01:55
fewa	even though only they can fix the problems...	Oct 25 01:55
yuhong	Really?	Oct 25 01:55
fewa	many of them	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	[01:52] <_Goblin> true, if it were a level playing field....but the MS faithful use dishonest methods to suggest Windows 7 is the ultimate....better that a user makes a decision based on informed choice.	Oct 25 01:55
fewa	only they can fix their own code	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	It's a matter of survival to them	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	Windowqs revenue down sharply	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	Windows is common carrier	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	No Windows sales, no Office	Oct 25 01:56
yuhong	Of course, but are all these problems really all MS's fault?	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	Margins declines	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	*declined	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	And people look at other options	Oct 25 01:56
_Goblin	yuhong: Yes, past behaviour and poor products.	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	Latvia ponders moving all to FOSS now	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	They adopted ODF already	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	fewa: I watched the Sudan and Iraq water dispute vids you sent us	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	Not too intereting TBH	Oct 25 01:56
cubezzz	how much are they selling windows 7 for?	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	I've begun watching the documentary Missing Link	Oct 25 01:57
yuhong	I know, MS code can have bugs, but I don't think all WIndows problems are caused byt hem?	Oct 25 01:57
cubezzz	and is it the same in each country?	Oct 25 01:57
_Goblin	"I know, MS code can have bugs, but I don't think all WIndows problems are caused byt hem?" - No none of them are. According to Microsoft its never their fault.	Oct 25 01:57
schestowitz	cubezzz: should be a free 'upgrade'	Oct 25 01:57
schestowitz	Esp. for VIsta -users- victims	Oct 25 01:57
cubezzz	yeah, you would think vista users would get windows 7 upgrade for free	Oct 25 01:58
schestowitz	_Goblin: mail http://twitter.com/MicrosoftHelps	Oct 25 01:58
cubezzz	is that actually the case?	Oct 25 01:58
schestowitz	ping it to ask:	Oct 25 01:58
schestowitz	"How can I install Linux on top of Windows?"	Oct 25 01:58
_Goblin	lol	Oct 25 01:58
_Goblin	good idea!	Oct 25 01:58
schestowitz	Or: "did Microsoft Help demolish the Yahoo!-Google deal?"	Oct 25 01:58
_Goblin	Ill give it a go.	Oct 25 01:58
yuhong	Of course, not normally, but people who recently bought Vista with a new PC should be able to get 7 for free.	Oct 25 01:58
fewa	"free"	Oct 25 01:59
schestowitz	No profit though	Oct 25 01:59
yuhong	Apple did the same thing with Snow Leopard.	Oct 25 01:59
fewa	its steeped in anti-features	Oct 25 01:59
schestowitz	Microsoft is stuck there	Oct 25 01:59
fewa	its a downgrade	Oct 25 01:59
schestowitz	The upgrade ramp	Oct 25 01:59
schestowitz	Planned obsolescence	Oct 25 01:59
fewa	upgrade treatmill	Oct 25 01:59
schestowitz	How to convince people that the old is broken	Oct 25 01:59
cubezzz	exactly	Oct 25 01:59
yuhong	But on MicrosoftHelps, yes that would be funny!	Oct 25 01:59
fewa	in reality, they wont get past XP	Oct 25 01:59
cubezzz	the upgrade treadmill	Oct 25 01:59
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:59
schestowitz	And that the news will be worth another expenditure.. for the same code with some modifications	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	It's essentially a charge for large patches	Oct 25 01:00
yuhong	I would not go that far.	Oct 25 01:00
fewa	no new features	Oct 25 01:00
yuhong	Not true.\	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	Unlike those who design a car to break after a limited time	Oct 25 01:00
fewa	the advertising just says it	Oct 25 01:00
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	Or in the case of PCs the CPU battery	Oct 25 01:00
_Goblin	there, done.	Oct 25 01:00
_Goblin	_Goblin @MicrosoftHelps How do you remove Windows 7 in favor of a Linux distribution? #microsoft #windows #vista #xp	Oct 25 01:00
_Goblin	less than 20 seconds ago from web	Oct 25 01:00
fewa	they call it 7, but it calls itsself 6.1	Oct 25 01:00
yuhong	Funny.	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	There is actually evidence to show that they do this	Oct 25 01:00
yuhong	There are new features.	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	But it's illegal, it's collusion	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	Yet no-one care	Oct 25 01:00
schestowitz	*cares to prosecute	Oct 25 01:01
cubezzz	Toshiba used to make microwave ovens	Oct 25 01:01
cubezzz	mine lasted about 25 years	Oct 25 01:01
fewa	the court systems need to get cheaper	Oct 25 01:01
cubezzz	they don't make microwave ovens any more	Oct 25 01:01
fewa	cubezzz, you go out of business if you make such a good Microwave	Oct 25 01:01
fewa	you have to keep people on treatmills to make money	Oct 25 01:01
fewa	like ink cartraiges	Oct 25 01:01
yuhong	A classic example is the Model M keyboard.	Oct 25 01:01
schestowitz	cubezzz: microwave is good for you	Oct 25 01:02
schestowitz	oops.	Oct 25 01:02
schestowitz	I mean, bad for you	Oct 25 01:02
fewa	yuhong, those are nice	Oct 25 01:02
cubezzz	lol	Oct 25 01:02
schestowitz	It's banned in Sweden	Oct 25 01:02
cubezzz	why bad?	Oct 25 01:02
schestowitz	There are experiments into it	Oct 25 01:02
fewa	I have an apple alluminum and i really like it	Oct 25 01:02
schestowitz	cubezzz: radiates the food	Oct 25 01:02
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:02
fewa	sure they made a good buck, but its a decent keyboard	Oct 25 01:02
fewa	schestowitz, meh, hardly	Oct 25 01:02
schestowitz	It's good for lazy people who eat in McDonalds	Oct 25 01:03
fewa	microswaves are great	Oct 25 01:03
schestowitz	I no longer use my microwave	Oct 25 01:03
yuhong	I read a lot about the problems with microwaves on Dr. Mercola.	Oct 25 01:03
schestowitz	Same with cellphones	Oct 25 01:03
schestowitz	People love to ignore those issue	Oct 25 01:03
yuhong	Again, often mentioned on Mercola.	Oct 25 01:03
schestowitz	They are led to believe it's OK cause everyone else does it	Oct 25 01:03
fewa	cellphones is an issue	Oct 25 01:03
fewa	but microwaves, meh	Oct 25 01:03
schestowitz	Marie Currie found out another way	Oct 25 01:03
fewa	should be put in a better casing	Oct 25 01:03
cubezzz	lots of "buy it now" on ebay: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 32BIT Operating System for $130	Oct 25 01:03
schestowitz	LOL	Oct 25 01:04
schestowitz	Any bids?	Oct 25 01:04
schestowitz	Nope	Oct 25 01:04
cubezzz	professional... ooooo :-P	Oct 25 01:04
schestowitz	Buy it NOW	Oct 25 01:04
schestowitz	Still in stock	Oct 25 01:04
schestowitz	How many?	Oct 25 01:04
cubezzz	I hate to think how bad normal edition would be	Oct 25 01:04
schestowitz	Starter is worse	Oct 25 01:04
yuhong	You know that you can heat a kitchen sponge in a microwave to kill bacteria.	Oct 25 01:05
fewa	cubezzz, http://www.cracked.com/blog/using-windows-7-may-lead-to-murder/	Oct 25 01:05
cubezzz	there's over 12,000 auctions for windows 7 on ebay	Oct 25 01:05
schestowitz	"Acer and Intel, for example, are already complaining that Windows 7 Starter Edition simply won't sell." http://www.bmighty.com/blog/main/archives/2009/05/is_microsoft_he.html	Oct 25 01:05
fewa	I saw it on the netbooks at bestbuy	Oct 25 01:05
yuhong	I know, they were forced to lift restrictions on Starter before release.	Oct 25 01:05
fewa	you cant change the background	Oct 25 01:05
yuhong	What is interesting is that some of them are not new.	Oct 25 01:05
yuhong	Remember XP starter and later Vista Starter?	Oct 25 01:05
fewa	ebay windows 7 http://www.cracked.com/blog/using-windows-7-may-lead-to-murder/	Oct 25 01:05
cubezzz	I must contain my (non) enthusiasm	Oct 25 01:06
yuhong	Of course, that is outrigious.	Oct 25 01:06
fewa	its called market segmentation	Oct 25 01:06
fewa	it comes from the "business folk"	Oct 25 01:06
fewa	that currently run the company	Oct 25 01:06
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:06
yuhong	Intel has many examples too, Intel VT.	Oct 25 01:06
yuhong	For example.	Oct 25 01:06
cubezzz	for everyone's unjoyment.... windows 7	Oct 25 01:07
yuhong	XP and Vista Starter were only available in developing nations.	Oct 25 01:07
fewa	AMD puts AMD-V on all their chips	Oct 25 01:07
fewa	takes out the bullshit	Oct 25 01:07
yuhong	Yep, nowadays even the new semprons have it.	Oct 25 01:07
fewa	"developing"	Oct 25 01:07
fewa	meaning shit poor	Oct 25 01:07
yuhong	Yep.	Oct 25 01:08
fewa	meaning, lets fuck with them	Oct 25 01:08
yuhong	Once there were the Pentium Pro which had built-in support for four CPUs.	Oct 25 01:08
fewa	Microsoft out-bidding Apple http://www.istartedsomething.com/20091024/windows-branded-laptop-30-rock/	Oct 25 01:08
cubezzz	I think I remember dual cpu pentium pro but not 4 cpu	Oct 25 01:10
yuhong	Then Intel with the Pentium II segmented that into it's own Xeon series, limiting the ordinary version to two CPUs.	Oct 25 01:10
cubezzz	now it's time for multi-core ARM cpu :)	Oct 25 01:10
yuhong	Then Intel with the Pentium 4 go one step further and segment that into another Xeon series, again limiting the ordinary version to only one CPU.	Oct 25 01:11
fewa	cubezzz, yes im waiting	Oct 25 01:11
yuhong	Initially the Xeon series was called Pentium II/III Xeon.	Oct 25 01:11
fewa	freescale was suppose to have a arm netbook out this christmas	Oct 25 01:11
yuhong	Then with the P4 they called it Xeon DP/MP (DP for two, MP for four).	Oct 25 01:12
yuhong	Later they renamed DP to Xeon 5000 series, MP to Seon 7000 series.	Oct 25 01:12
yuhong	And then they added a one CPU version called Xeon 3000 series.	Oct 25 01:12
yuhong	I have an Abit BP6 motherboards that could run dual Celerons, even though Intel always officially limit that to one CPU.	Oct 25 01:13
fewa	AMD is better	Oct 25 01:14
yuhong	AMD? Well, Athlons had built-in SMP support from the beginning, but it was not until June 2001 that AMD released the 760MP chipset.	Oct 25 01:15
fewa	idk	Oct 25 01:15
fewa	i just have always used AMD	Oct 25 01:15
fewa	cheaper in the consumer market	Oct 25 01:15
fewa	and no VT bs	Oct 25 01:15
yuhong	When that were released, AMD decided to segment into Athlon XP/MP series.	Oct 25 01:15
cubezzz	always?	Oct 25 01:16
yuhong	Then with the Opteron, they decided to segment into 1xx/2xx/8xx series, the first digit indicate the max CPUs.	Oct 25 01:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest Twists in the #SCO Case: #AutoZone Settlement and More http://ping.fm/k6u6L		Oct 25 01:17
yuhong	Anyway, sometime Windows problems are MS's fault, sometimes not.	Oct 25 01:18
cubezzz	I think I remember AMD 386	Oct 25 01:18
yuhong	The only way to determine is to debug the problem properly, and I has been recently learning a lot about WIndows debugging.	Oct 25 01:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Launch Said to Have Failed http://ping.fm/DPaRd #microsoft #windows #vista #xp windows 7		Oct 25 01:19
cubezzz	ok, they go back all the way to 8080	Oct 25 01:19
cubezzz	so yes, it was always possible to buy AMD cpu	Oct 25 01:19
yuhong	Yep, AMD was an Intel second-source.	Oct 25 01:19
yuhong	But Intel want to abandon this with the 386.	Oct 25 01:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 dropped off the trends on Twitter already? Oh dear. #microsoft #windows #vista #xp #fail		Oct 25 01:20
schestowitz	http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1707	Oct 25 01:20
schestowitz	"the limitations built into Microsoft’s development stack show it to be a dead end that will leave Microsoft marketing magnificent visions of its unfolding future while quietly figuring out how and when to abandon that code base for something else - and because that something could very logically be Linux it might be time for the Linux community to start paying a lot more attention to legacy interoperability with Windows."	Oct 25 01:20
yuhong	And lawsuits soon begin to erupt between Intel and AMD.	Oct 25 01:20
schestowitz	And that's from SCO/MicroTurf Murphy	Oct 25 01:20
schestowitz	yuhong: nope	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	Intel's is reactionary	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	AMD shows Intel crimes	Oct 25 01:21
cubezzz	lawsuits seem way to common	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	Convictions come from several countries	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	And Intel plays victims	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	*victim	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	But counter-suing	Oct 25 01:21
yuhong	Yep, I know.	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	Very Microsoft-like behaviour	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	"Apple is evil, TOO"	Oct 25 01:21
schestowitz	"Google reads your mail"	Oct 25 01:21
cubezzz	well, who should we buy from then?	Oct 25 01:22
yuhong	I know!	Oct 25 01:22
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:22
cubezzz	I always assume everyone can read my emails	Oct 25 01:22
yuhong	Even Google is not prefect, but it is definitely better than MS.	Oct 25 01:22
yuhong	No company is perfect, you know.	Oct 25 01:22
cubezzz	ok, I buy ARM for now :)	Oct 25 01:23
yuhong	ARM, I know that too.	Oct 25 01:23
yuhong	In fact, no one is perfect.	Oct 25 01:23
cubezzz	of course, but....	Oct 25 01:24
cubezzz	some are really REALLY not perfect :)	Oct 25 01:24
yuhong	Like MS.	Oct 25 01:24
yuhong	And these are the ones that deserve special attension.	Oct 25 01:24
cubezzz	ARM has low power use which is nice to have	Oct 25 01:25
cubezzz	I've been using ARM in my router too	Oct 25 01:26
cubezzz	and zaurus	Oct 25 01:26
fewa	http://i.imgur.com/WSfAi.jpg	Oct 25 01:26
yuhong	And on MS financial results, I think the CodeWeavers press release should be reviewd again.	Oct 25 01:27
fewa	yes	Oct 25 01:29
fewa	http://www.codeweavers.com/about/general/press/20090724/	Oct 25 01:30
yuhong	Apple already is showing anti-7 ads:	Oct 25 01:31
yuhong	http://features.csmonitor.com/innovation/2009/10/23/windows-7-parade-dampened-by-new-apple-ads/	Oct 25 01:31
_Goblin	wheres the Windows 7 parties showcase?	Oct 25 01:31
_Goblin	I was looking forward to seeing them..	Oct 25 01:31
*DaemonFC (i=Ryan@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 01:34
DaemonFC	I've been cleaning my apartment since I haven't been able to until now, I had already been putting it off for about a month before all this happened, now I haven't been able to for nearly a month	Oct 25 01:36
DaemonFC	I've got about 5 hours in on it between last night and tonight and I'm maybe 40% done	Oct 25 01:36
DaemonFC	I spent 3 hours on the bathroom last night and 2 hours doing my bedroom and the hallway tonight, I still have the living room and the kitchen and I'm not looking forward to those	Oct 25 01:37
yuhong	I am trying to dig up an article where there are videos of problems with Windows 7.	Oct 25 01:43
yuhong	This one:	Oct 25 01:44
yuhong	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/23/vista-7-videos-rants/	Oct 25 01:44
_Goblin	Give it time...there will be many...	Oct 25 01:44
_Goblin	"If you build it, they will come"	Oct 25 01:44
yuhong	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2EsdTMggo	Oct 25 01:45
yuhong	Beta, not RTM through.	Oct 25 01:45
_Goblin	my favorite Vista one was: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno	Oct 25 01:46
yuhong	I am not really an expert on how this part of 7 works.	Oct 25 01:46
fewa	yuhong, yeah i remember that one	Oct 25 01:46
fewa	vista one	Oct 25 01:46
fewa	vista hardware compatibility is atrocious	Oct 25 01:47
fewa	linux is better	Oct 25 01:47
yuhong	I know, I dug two hardware from garbage that did not have specific Vista drivers.	Oct 25 01:47
yuhong	One was a printer, but XP driver may have worked, did not try through.	Oct 25 01:48
yuhong	Another is a Handspring Visor, I tried the XP software on Vista and it did not work at all.	Oct 25 01:48
yuhong	And I know why, it relates to the timing of the Vista hardware detection, which is different from XP.	Oct 25 01:49
yuhong	To illustrate this difference, I suggest plugging a USB device into a Vista and XP computer that has no drivers, then initiate the driver search and installation using Found New Hardware on both, then unplug the device.	Oct 25 01:51
Xarver	yuhong: the last video shows him going into a Crack folder xD	Oct 25 01:51
fewa	then plug it into Linux	Oct 25 01:51
fewa	and...it...just...works	Oct 25 01:51
yuhong	Behavior of this is different between Vista and XP.	Oct 25 01:51
DaemonFC	fewa, I've never had a problem getting a device to work in Vista	Oct 25 01:51
yuhong	Vista will stop the driver installation, while XP won't.	Oct 25 01:52
DaemonFC	fewa, For the most part, you can use any WDM certified drivers on any Windows release between 2000-7	Oct 25 01:52
fewa	not for 64-bit	Oct 25 01:52
DaemonFC	the display driver model changed in Vista and again in 7 though	Oct 25 01:52
yuhong	And the version of HotSync on the old Palm Visor relied on the XP behavior.	Oct 25 01:52
DaemonFC	XP display drivers work in Vista or 7 but you are limited to DirectX 9 and no Aero	Oct 25 01:53
DaemonFC	fewa, You can use Vista and 7 64-bit drivers in XP x64	Oct 25 01:53
Xarver	schestowitz: I can't wait for Mandriva 2010 :)	Oct 25 01:53
DaemonFC	anyway, I've never had a problem	Oct 25 01:53
yuhong	In case you didn't see it, the Visor after a time-out automatically unplug the device.	Oct 25 01:53
DaemonFC	well, I take it back, Windows XP x64 wouldn't recognize my Sansa Fuze until I got the bright idea to just tell it it was an external hard drive :P	Oct 25 01:54
yuhong	But not the opposite because Vista x64 requires driver signing, while XP x64 did not.	Oct 25 01:54
fewa	<yuhong> But not the opposite because Vista x64 requires driver signing, while XP x64 did not.	Oct 25 01:54
*schestowitz has quit ()		Oct 25 01:54
fewa	more anti-features	Oct 25 01:54
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 01:55
*schestowitz () has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 01:55
yuhong	That driver signing do not require WHQL certification.	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	<fewa> more anti-features	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	<yuhong> I know.	Oct 25 01:55
schestowitz	Pasted too much in #boycottnovell-social	Oct 25 01:55
DaemonFC	schestowitz, really just depends on if you care	Oct 25 01:55
DaemonFC	I'd rather use Truecrypt than EFS or Bitlocker anyway	Oct 25 01:56
DaemonFC	much better	Oct 25 01:56
Xarver	schestowitz: you waiting for mandriva 2010?	Oct 25 01:56
yuhong	I was arguing about Vista's support for DRM on Blu-Ray once.	Oct 25 01:56
schestowitz	Xarver: we'll see.	Oct 25 01:56
DaemonFC	yuhong, No different than a Blu Ray player	Oct 25 01:56
DaemonFC	AnyDVD HD can bypass it	Oct 25 01:57
Xarver	schestowitz: The wallpaper for One is nice.	Oct 25 01:57
yuhong	And oiaohm argued that graphic card deencryption could solve this problem, but would MS really want to limit Windows to this.	Oct 25 01:57
schestowitz	Wallpaper is no reason to choose $distro	Oct 25 01:57
yuhong	Of course now.	Oct 25 01:58
yuhong	Of course not.	Oct 25 01:58
DaemonFC	yuhong, Just like how Windows Media Player supports User Prohibited Operations on DVDs	Oct 25 01:58
DaemonFC	just use VLC	Oct 25 01:58
yuhong	Yep, I know about that too.	Oct 25 01:58
Xarver	schestowitz: I know but I was just stating it was nice.	Oct 25 01:58
DaemonFC	The DRM isn't really "built in", it's just what Windows applications do by default	Oct 25 01:59
DaemonFC	it still lets you use other software that doesn't obey the DRM flagging	Oct 25 01:59
yuhong	I know about the DVD.	Oct 25 01:59
yuhong	I know about the DVD cracking and flagging.	Oct 25 02:00
yuhong	Anyway, I am going to watch a video.	Oct 25 02:00
yuhong	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLzB_kzR_CI	Oct 25 02:00
yuhong	Looks like they were doing DRM cracking.	Oct 25 02:02
_Hicham_	DaemonFC is always cracking DRM	Oct 25 02:03
DaemonFC	_Hicham_, The "DRM" in Windows is pretty lame and easy to bypass	Oct 25 02:03
yuhong	And it ended up crashing.	Oct 25 02:03
DaemonFC	it would be like every player coming with a built in burner and a button to turn off all their DRM	Oct 25 02:03
DaemonFC	just having it always provides fuel for anti-Windows/anti-Microsoft people though	Oct 25 02:04
DaemonFC	even though Linux can't usually even play the discs at all	Oct 25 02:04
yuhong	Unlikely to be Windows's fault.	Oct 25 02:04
DaemonFC	much less rip or copy them	Oct 25 02:04
DaemonFC	if you do follow like this really convoluted how to guide on Ubuntu's website, which is still illegal, you might be able to play some of your discs	Oct 25 02:05
DaemonFC	it's not exactly a motivator to go out and buy nice fancy new hardware	Oct 25 02:05
yuhong	I know.	Oct 25 02:06
yuhong	DaemonFC: Some old IRC logs:	Oct 25 02:06
yuhong	http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-22092009.html	Oct 25 02:06
yuhong	http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-16092009.html	Oct 25 02:07
DaemonFC	when there's some way that I can play every Blu Ray movie on Linux, rip or duplicate any of them, etc., please wake me up	Oct 25 02:07
yuhong	Yep, that is part of my point.	Oct 25 02:07
DaemonFC	obviously I don't care if it's legal or not, the fact is that I can't do that now in any event	Oct 25 02:07
yuhong	"I am wondering if we should not blame the OS vendors for DRM "anti-features", blaming Hollywood instead for demanding them."	Oct 25 02:08
DaemonFC	I need a Windows PC or a Mac which supposedly have all this DRM there to stop me, to rip a movie disc that Linux is not technically able to play	Oct 25 02:08
DaemonFC	do you see the irony?	Oct 25 02:08
yuhong	"I mean, if Linux was to add support for Blu-Ray, these same DRM anti-features would be needed to be added to Linux as well."	Oct 25 02:08
DaemonFC	they can put a cork in the Windows 7 Sins thing til that isn't the case	Oct 25 02:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Uses #IDG to Promote #Mono http://ping.fm/qbu6P		Oct 25 02:09
yuhong	Exactly.	Oct 25 02:09
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @schestowitz: #Government of #Kerala on Track with #FreeSoftware , #SanFrancisco Awakens http://ur1.ca/ecpa http://ur1.ca/ecpb		Oct 25 02:09
DaemonFC	Windows or Mac DRM amount to a tenth of a hill of beans, a minor nuisance requiring you to find other software	Oct 25 02:09
DaemonFC	I don't even remember the last time I used Windows Media Player or IE other than to gawk at them or cause there was this one site in ten thousand that somehow messes up Firefox that I need to print something from	Oct 25 02:10
yuhong	And on protected processes, yep my favorite example is Mac OS X's PT_DENY_ATTACH being easily patched out because the source code for the kernel is available.	Oct 25 02:11
DaemonFC	yuhong, I only opened and used Windows Media Player 12, IE 8, etc. cause of morbid curiousity	Oct 25 02:11
DaemonFC	yuhong, Or how about getting it to boot on a PC cause most of the OS is open source	Oct 25 02:12
DaemonFC	:P	Oct 25 02:12
DaemonFC	there's some patched kernels out there that add proper AMD processor support and everything	Oct 25 02:12
yuhong	I know that too.	Oct 25 02:12
DaemonFC	it's pretty wicked what these community hack jobs have managed to do	Oct 25 02:13
yuhong	Apple initially did not even release the source code for the first 32-bit only Intel version of Mac OS X.	Oct 25 02:13
yuhong	Apple initially did not even release the source code for the kernel of the first 32-bit only Intel version of Mac OS X.	Oct 25 02:13
DaemonFC	I ran Snow Leopard on my old Core 2 Duo PC	Oct 25 02:13
DaemonFC	it's not awful, but I wouldn't see why I'd buy a $2,000 Mac to get it	Oct 25 02:14
DaemonFC	you have to get a $2,000 Mac to get hardware as good as you'll find on a $1,000 PC	Oct 25 02:14
yuhong	They only released xnu source after they added 64-bit Intel support with the Mac Pro.	Oct 25 02:14
DaemonFC	but the OS upgrades are only $30, let's just talk about that ;)	Oct 25 02:14
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yuhong	Yep, after years of $130 Mac OS X upgrades, Apple priced Snow Leopard at only $30 for Leopard users.	Oct 25 02:15
DaemonFC	yuhong, Reminds me of when Microsoft had those $30 promo step-ups	Oct 25 02:15
DaemonFC	98 to 98SE or 98 to Me	Oct 25 02:15
Xarver	Funny it's less secure than 7. But since it has lower market share it's safe.	Oct 25 02:16
DaemonFC	Xarver, OS X is comically insecure	Oct 25 02:16
Xarver	:p	Oct 25 02:16
yuhong	I know, classic Mac OS is like that too.	Oct 25 02:16
DaemonFC	and vulnerabilities stay unpatched for almost a year sometimes after disclosure	Oct 25 02:16
schestowitz	load average: 10.32, 7.78, 4.32	Oct 25 02:16
schestowitz	Xarver: mandriva always has nice looks	Oct 25 02:17
yuhong	I know, Apple smeared security researchers like MS once did.	Oct 25 02:17
schestowitz	default looks	Oct 25 02:17
Xarver	schestowitz: I don't like laOra though :\	Oct 25 02:17
yuhong	9x and classic Mac OS has less services running than NT and Mac OS X.	Oct 25 02:17
schestowitz	Who's Laura? :-)	Oct 25 02:18
DaemonFC	Xarver, I'm still in the Microsoft Security Essentials beta program	Oct 25 02:18
schestowitz	Bush?	Oct 25 02:18
DaemonFC	I get builds a couple weeks before they're publically released	Oct 25 02:18
Xarver	I'm sorry for you DaemonFC	Oct 25 02:18
DaemonFC	but I had to sign an NDA so I'm not allowed to say anything beyond that	Oct 25 02:18
Xarver	schestowitz: Mandriva's default theme	Oct 25 02:18
schestowitz	Registrant:	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Domains by Proxy, Inc.	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	DomainsByProxy.com	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	15111 N. Hayden Rd., Ste 160, PMB 353	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Scottsdale, Arizona 85260	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	United States	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Domain Name: MOBLINZONE.COM	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Created on: 18-Nov-08	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Expires on: 18-Nov-09	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Last Updated on: 30-Nov-08	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Domain Name: MOBLINZONE.COM	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	Why are they hiding?	Oct 25 02:20
schestowitz	It this an Intel boosting site?	Oct 25 02:21
DaemonFC	Xarver, It's pretty good actually	Oct 25 02:21
schestowitz	I've always wondered if it's an Intel-owned site	Oct 25 02:21
schestowitz	Seems likely	Oct 25 02:21
DaemonFC	I use it to disinfect other people's PCs	Oct 25 02:21
yuhong	On MSE, Woody once critised OneCare.	Oct 25 02:21
DaemonFC	it finds all kinds of things that others don't seem to	Oct 25 02:21
schestowitz	http://moblinzone.com/partners	Oct 25 02:21
schestowitz	It doesn't say who owns the site though	Oct 25 02:21
yuhong	Calling it payola, but they like MSE because it is free.	Oct 25 02:22
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")		Oct 25 02:26
fewa	look Intel	Oct 25 02:26
*Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@68.238.49.173) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 02:29
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cubezzz	wow, another SCO story	Oct 25 02:34
cubezzz	http://blogs.computerworld.com/14973/sco_thrashes_on	Oct 25 02:34
schestowitz	cubezzz: yes, I wrote about that	Oct 25 02:37
DaemonFC	for some reason, Windows 7 takes a lot longer to sleep on this machine than Vista, but it resumes twice as fast	Oct 25 02:38
DaemonFC	:P	Oct 25 02:38
DaemonFC	http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/top50windows/Vista_Capable.png	Oct 25 02:39
DaemonFC	schestowitz, You should like that one	Oct 25 02:39
*Will (i=4c724679@gateway/web/freenode/x-fwwlircqpwciywqq) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 02:39
cubezzz	it's not hard to make fun of Ballmer	Oct 25 02:41
Xarver	lol	Oct 25 02:41
_Hicham_	is ballmer very rich ?	Oct 25 02:41
cubezzz	10 billion I believe	Oct 25 02:41
Xarver	I would expect he would be.	Oct 25 02:41
DaemonFC	cubezzz, 15 billion actually	Oct 25 02:42
DaemonFC	still, yes, very	Oct 25 02:42
_Hicham_	wow, pretty huge	Oct 25 02:42
_Hicham_	DaemonFC wishes he was him	Oct 25 02:42
cubezzz	no hair, fat? :)	Oct 25 02:42
DaemonFC	_Hicham_, A fat pig that's over twice as old as I am, losing his hair, and has heart problems	Oct 25 02:42
Xarver	Lol.	Oct 25 02:42
DaemonFC	no thank you	Oct 25 02:43
DaemonFC	I would take the $15 billion though	Oct 25 02:43
Xarver	heh	Oct 25 02:43
_Hicham_	what would u do with this money ?	Oct 25 02:43
DaemonFC	_Hicham_, Buy all the undergarments in the world and burn them	Oct 25 02:43
DaemonFC	followed by pants	Oct 25 02:43
cubezzz	don't forget sweaty	Oct 25 02:43
Xarver	Donate a hefty amount to gnome and other open source projects.	Oct 25 02:43
DaemonFC	Windows 7 is back in the XP performance ballpark anyway	Oct 25 02:44
Xarver	windows 7 is a RAM hog	Oct 25 02:44
cubezzz	so is XP	Oct 25 02:44
_Hicham_	haven't used Windows 7 yet	Oct 25 02:44
DaemonFC	Xarver, It's about even with XP for me	Oct 25 02:44
Xarver	http://www.winmatrix.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22381-512mb-ram-performance-comparison-windows-7-vs-vista-vs-xp/	Oct 25 02:45
_Hicham_	DaemonFC : still trying to clean Windows XP from Internet Explorer and stuff ?	Oct 25 02:45
DaemonFC	_Hicham_, That's easy to do with nLite	Oct 25 02:45
_Hicham_	DaemonFC : did u make sure that it deletes mshtml.dll ?	Oct 25 02:46
DaemonFC	that's called "Internet Explorer Core"	Oct 25 02:47
DaemonFC	you can bag that but it may anger a lot of other programs that expect it to be there	Oct 25 02:47
DaemonFC	but it would obviously clean up a lot of security bugs	Oct 25 02:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My take on: #Chinese and #Latvian Governments Promote Free(dom) Software and #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/if8mj		Oct 25 02:48
cubezzz	DaemonFC, I can't find any references for Ballmer's heart problems	Oct 25 02:48
_Hicham_	have u ever used Windows Trust ?	Oct 25 02:48
cubezzz	are you speculating or...?	Oct 25 02:48
schestowitz	cubezzz: cause he has no heart	Oct 25 02:48
DaemonFC	cubezzz, I remember reading it somewhere	Oct 25 02:48
DaemonFC	maybe I'm thinking of Dick Cheney	Oct 25 02:48
schestowitz	Hehe.	Oct 25 02:49
schestowitz	Wrng Fester	Oct 25 02:49
schestowitz	*Wrong	Oct 25 02:49
cubezzz	he certainly doesn't look to be in good shape	Oct 25 02:49
_Hicham_	Dick Cheney .... hahahaha	Oct 25 02:49
schestowitz	He needed to lose weight	Oct 25 02:49
_Hicham_	americans have some strange names	Oct 25 02:49
cubezzz	like Spiro Agnew? :)	Oct 25 02:50
schestowitz	Windows 7 Getting Over-Hyped http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2009/02/03/windows-7-getting-over-hyped/	Oct 25 02:50
DaemonFC	_Hicham_, You refer to Dick?	Oct 25 02:50
cubezzz	wow, even Dvorak thinks so	Oct 25 02:50
DaemonFC	nickname for "Richard" of course	Oct 25 02:50
DaemonFC	it's more fun calling him Dick though	Oct 25 02:50
_Hicham_	DaemonFC : yes	Oct 25 02:51
DaemonFC	I had a psychiatrist years ago names Richard that I would show my contempt for with that	Oct 25 02:51
DaemonFC	"Sure thing, Dick"	Oct 25 02:51
DaemonFC	"Whatever you say, Dick"	Oct 25 02:51
schestowitz	Neocon	Oct 25 02:52
DaemonFC	schestowitz, The Neocon is a dying breed	Oct 25 02:52
schestowitz	Not yet	Oct 25 02:52
DaemonFC	they're few, they're loud mouthed	Oct 25 02:52
schestowitz	BTW, did you watch that documentary?	Oct 25 02:52
DaemonFC	but they are a cohesive voting block	Oct 25 02:52
DaemonFC	that's why they should be feared	Oct 25 02:52
schestowitz	Strauss' thesis	Oct 25 02:52
DaemonFC	schestowitz, part of it	Oct 25 02:53
fewa	ehats the docudrama?	Oct 25 02:53
_Hicham_	good night all	Oct 25 02:53
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DaemonFC	schestowitz, For me, voting more or less consists of going in there, waiting 20 minutes or so, and pushing a button that submits a vote for all Democrats on the ballot	Oct 25 02:53
DaemonFC	then leaving	Oct 25 02:53
DaemonFC	but there have been a couple elections where that was not the case	Oct 25 02:54
fewa	some times the "Republican"s are more liberal than the "Democrats"	Oct 25 02:54
DaemonFC	sometimes you get a Republican running against a Libertarian, I'll usually go for the Libertarian as a protest vote	Oct 25 02:54
DaemonFC	Dick Lugar is the only Republican I've ever voted for	Oct 25 02:55
fewa	yeah you live in a differnt type of place	Oct 25 02:55
fewa	here you can get Dem v Dem	Oct 25 02:55
DaemonFC	fewa, not really	Oct 25 02:55
fewa	progressive Dem v plain Dem	Oct 25 02:55
fewa	<fewa> here	Oct 25 02:55
DaemonFC	re: The liberal Republicans	Oct 25 02:55
fewa	not IN	Oct 25 02:55
DaemonFC	the closest there is to that is a centrist Republican	Oct 25 02:55
DaemonFC	there are a few	Oct 25 02:55
fewa	Arlen Spector	Oct 25 02:56
fewa	Federal politics have moved so far right that he had to switch parties	Oct 25 02:56
DaemonFC	Arlen Spector is just a total coward	Oct 25 02:56
DaemonFC	fewa, No, he just figured he'd lose the primary if he ran as a Republican	Oct 25 02:56
DaemonFC	now he gets to lose the primary as a Democrat, I hope	Oct 25 02:56
fewa	he pushed for Campaign FInance reform	Oct 25 02:57
DaemonFC	we need a real Progressive Democrat in that seat, fewa	Oct 25 02:57
fewa	i guess that is bipartisan	Oct 25 02:57
DaemonFC	not some wolf in sheep's clothing	Oct 25 02:57
fewa	but yes	Oct 25 02:57
fewa	there are not enough progressives	Oct 25 02:57
fewa	lots of "dems" are not Dems	Oct 25 02:57
fewa	eg Liberman	Oct 25 02:57
fewa	http://liebermanmustgo.com/	Oct 25 02:58
DaemonFC	fewa, You mean Judas Liebermann?	Oct 25 02:58
DaemonFC	hehe	Oct 25 02:58
fewa	but Dem doesn't mean much	Oct 25 02:58
DaemonFC	I really hate him, he is the definition of "douche"	Oct 25 02:58
DaemonFC	a spineless douche at that	Oct 25 02:58
fewa	see the end of that vid	Oct 25 02:58
fewa	or maybe the second	Oct 25 02:59
fewa	on the daily show	Oct 25 02:59
DaemonFC	fewa, Bernie Sanders	Oct 25 02:59
DaemonFC	we could use a few more of him	Oct 25 02:59
fewa	he isn't a dem	Oct 25 03:00
fewa	the dems wont put their name on him	Oct 25 03:00
fewa	they just wont run against him	Oct 25 03:00
fewa	"Dem" is essentially an elite group that tries to sheep politics	Oct 25 03:00
fewa	"Rep" are all sheep to those types	Oct 25 03:00
fewa	progressives, thats what we need	Oct 25 03:01
fewa	and to hold Dems on their promises	Oct 25 03:01
fewa	EFCA for example	Oct 25 03:01
fewa	it should pass	Oct 25 03:01
fewa	this is the time	Oct 25 03:01
fewa	http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-13-2007/iraq-me-dave-petraeus---senate	Oct 25 03:06
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cubezzz	wow. the Toronto Maple Leafs lost, Toronto FC lost, Toronto Raptors lost, and Toronto Argonauts lost	Oct 25 03:16
cubezzz	I expect the leafs to lose, but not everyone else	Oct 25 03:17
fewa	Im sick of this bs http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/24/796267/-Mac-vs.-PC-meets-Dems-vs.-GOP	Oct 25 03:20
fewa	they have 60 votes	Oct 25 03:20
fewa	http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090831/geoghegan	Oct 25 03:20
fewa	they only need 51	Oct 25 03:20
fewa	they need to do something	Oct 25 03:21
fewa	need to actually say what their ideas are	Oct 25 03:21
fewa	pass healthcare	Oct 25 03:21
fewa	pass EFCA, actually banking reform (they hacn't done shit)	Oct 25 03:21
DaemonFC	fewa, EFCA and ENDA should both pass	Oct 25 03:29
fewa	ENDA?	Oct 25 03:29
fewa	Internet freedom preservation act	Oct 25 03:29
DaemonFC	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act	Oct 25 03:29
DaemonFC	fewa, there you go	Oct 25 03:29
fewa	HR 676 needs to get on the table	Oct 25 03:30
fewa	its the press that is holding that back	Oct 25 03:30
DaemonFC	fewa, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Transparency_Act	Oct 25 03:31
DaemonFC	that needs to pass too	Oct 25 03:31
fewa	yes	Oct 25 03:31
fewa	Obama is probably against it	Oct 25 03:32
DaemonFC	fewa, The institution that controls our money supply should not be allowed to do it behind closed doors	Oct 25 03:32
DaemonFC	I don't even think that a non-governmental institution should be allowed to	Oct 25 03:32
fewa	DaemonFC, www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB	Oct 25 03:33
DaemonFC	I would strongly support shutting down the Federal Reserve and transferring their "authority" to the US Treasury where it belongs	Oct 25 03:33
fewa	and it needs to be made clear that congres must sign off on certain levels	Oct 25 03:34
DaemonFC	fewa, The Federal Reserve answers to nobody	Oct 25 03:34
DaemonFC	no matter who we elect, it doesn't effect them at all	Oct 25 03:34
schestowitz	[02:53] <fewa> ehats the docudrama?	Oct 25 03:34
fewa	or even congress passing the base rate	Oct 25 03:34
schestowitz	Power if Nightmares	Oct 25 03:34
schestowitz	*of	Oct 25 03:35
fewa	http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-604	Oct 25 03:35
fewa	http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1207	Oct 25 03:36
fewa	can already pass in house	Oct 25 03:36
fewa	just need to pass it in house right now	Oct 25 03:36
fewa	and then get a vote in the senate	Oct 25 03:36
schestowitz	fewa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9cJEnJNYCE&feature=related	Oct 25 03:36
fewa	force them to do a vote on it	Oct 25 03:36
fewa	need to do the same on EFCA	Oct 25 03:36
fewa	ill download from archive.org	Oct 25 03:37
fewa	http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares	Oct 25 03:37
fewa	so elitist	Oct 25 03:38
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Will	schestowitz: http://ever-increasing-entropy.blogspot.com/2009/10/amazing-coincidence-or-something-more.html	Oct 25 03:39
fewa	wasn't victorian superiority similar?	Oct 25 03:39
Will	Might be worth looking into. Looks like HP might have killed off their Linux netbook on the day Win7 released.	Oct 25 03:40
fewa	Will, yes they did	Oct 25 03:41
fewa	few days before	Oct 25 03:41
Will	fewa: probably going to put Kubuntu 9.10 on my laptop soon. I want to see how long until someone mistakes it for Windows 7.	Oct 25 03:43
fewa	get the W7 background	Oct 25 03:43
fewa	with the logo	Oct 25 03:43
Will	fewa: see, I'd thought about that, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea. If I do that, they just assume I'm running Win7 and leave it at that. If I keep it mostly stock KDE 4, they see something that looks close, but not quite.	Oct 25 03:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GatesKeepers to Keep Track of #GatesFoundation http://ping.fm/tsvBO		Oct 25 03:46
Will	with some customizations that Win7 can't do, of course.	Oct 25 03:46
schestowitz	Will: yes, I put this link in earlier post	Oct 25 03:46
schestowitz	Not sure what to say\	Oct 25 03:46
Will	ok. must have missed it	Oct 25 03:47
schestowitz	They didn't kill it	Oct 25 03:47
schestowitz	They would not	Oct 25 03:47
schestowitz	HP is worried about their distro, too	Oct 25 03:47
schestowitz	They just did the marketing thing	Oct 25 03:47
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/01/leaked-oem-vista-ad-incentives/	Oct 25 03:48
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/12/tesco-lies-for-ms-cash/	Oct 25 03:48
schestowitz	Let the Vole blow another $500 , 000 , 000 on marketing the rebadged VIsta	Oct 25 03:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Israel threatens diplomatic relations if countries broadcast a film about Us-Palestine relations http://ur1.ca/edgw #freespeech		Oct 25 03:50
Will	It's not been like the 95 launch, that's for sure.	Oct 25 03:50
Xarver	schestowitz: BoycottNovell.com isn't loading for me.	Oct 25 03:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Israel threatens diplomatic relations if countries broadcast a film about US-Israel-Palestine relations http://ur1.ca/edgw #freespeech		Oct 25 03:52
Xarver	ok it loaded.	Oct 25 03:52
Xarver	schestowitz: A Linux company should make graphics that say "We don't recommend Windows."	Oct 25 03:54
fewa	nah, thats too negative	Oct 25 03:56
fewa	should just similar graphics	Oct 25 03:56
fewa	and say recommends Linux	Oct 25 03:56
Will	Xarver: banks have already said it, though perhaps they could stand to say it a bit louder.	Oct 25 03:56
fewa	or some distro	Oct 25 03:56
Xarver	:P	Oct 25 03:56
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DaemonFC	fewa, Aero on Windows 7 is using DirectX 10.1 now	Oct 25 03:59
DaemonFC	it'll work on old DirectX 9 cards though through some kind of extrapolation mechanism that Microsoft is calling 10 Level 9	Oct 25 03:59
schestowitz	Xarver: it can take a long time	Oct 25 04:03
schestowitz	The comment system clogs things up	Oct 25 04:03
Xarver	:\	Oct 25 04:03
Xarver	Iww Microsoft DaemonFC	Oct 25 04:05
Xarver	:P	Oct 25 04:05
schestowitz	gn	Oct 25 04:10
Xarver	gn	Oct 25 04:20
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willimm	hey	Oct 25 04:24
Xarver	hi willimm	Oct 25 04:27
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] LOL http://amosdesigns.net/?p=42 #firefox		Oct 25 06:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Ralph Nader on Al Jazeera about #bailout #AIG to-big-to-fail leaked plan http://ur1.ca/edqg http://www.mediafire.com/?kmyj1nzjmyt		Oct 25 08:29
fewa	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XedDoYD_YGY creapy shit	Oct 25 09:28
schestowitz	Hey	Oct 25 09:44
schestowitz	I'll watch it later	Oct 25 09:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @glynmoody ChangeTracker – keeping an eye on US Government websites - http://ur1.ca/edtd clever: we need more of these #ogov		Oct 25 09:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Getting ready for #oggcamp . Quite scary.		Oct 25 10:10
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RT: @prajna: RT @yarapavan: Fedena -- an #opensource school management system, built in India, using Ruby on Rails. http://fedena.com/		Oct 25 10:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OEM Documents Which #Microsoft Labels “MICROSOFT SECRET” http://ping.fm/vx44D		Oct 25 11:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Listening to @andysc talk about his twittering house. fantastic stuff		Oct 25 11:34
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DavidGerard	oh dear Lord. Have you seen this? The actual photos of the Windows 7 burger.	Oct 25 11:43
DavidGerard	http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/10/23/the-real-life-burger-king-windows-7-whopper-is-a-disgusting-joke-to-humanity/	Oct 25 11:43
DavidGerard	yeah, that won't make people associate win7 and LARD.	Oct 25 11:43
DavidGerard	as soon as you touch it, it starts exuding grease and fat http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/10/23/the-real-life-burger-king-windows-7-whopper-is-a-disgusting-joke-to-humanity/8-2/	Oct 25 11:44
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] windows 7 burger. ya rly. http://is.gd/4AH4Y the moment you touch windows 7, it starts dripping grease and LARD http://is.gd/4AH7O		Oct 25 11:47
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Diablo-D3	heh	Oct 25 11:53
Diablo-D3	DavidGerard: you should get on identica	Oct 25 11:53
schestowitz	LOL	Oct 25 11:54
schestowitz	http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11433&tag=content;col1	Oct 25 11:54
schestowitz	They simply renamed it (and changed a few icons and splash screens)!!	Oct 25 11:54
schestowitz	Windows 7, I HATE IT ALREADY!!!!	Oct 25 11:54
schestowitz	from: "Vista's NOT dead!!"	Oct 25 11:54
schestowitz	^^^that's a quote BTW	Oct 25 11:55
DavidGerard	Diablo-D3: probably. but that might require e.g. bothering.	Oct 25 11:55
schestowitz	DavidGerard: wrong marketing message for Microsoft	Oct 25 11:56
DavidGerard	i think someone slipped up. (slipped in the GREASE.) associating windows 7 with lard is, uh, not the best move.	Oct 25 11:56
Diablo-D3	btw, schestowitz	Oct 25 11:56
Diablo-D3	7 really is a vista sp	Oct 25 11:56
schestowitz	It drips "FAT"	Oct 25 11:56
schestowitz	I thought Vista 7 was supposed to whisper "light"	Oct 25 11:56
Diablo-D3	DavidGerard: the funny part is, apparently you can buy these in texas in many BKs	Oct 25 11:56
schestowitz	What's next? The VIsta 7 HUMMER?	Oct 25 11:56
schestowitz	Edsel....	Oct 25 11:56
schestowitz	Diablo-D3: it's more than an SP	Oct 25 11:57
Diablo-D3	schestowitz: no its not	Oct 25 11:57
schestowitz	In 2007 Allchin apparently said that he made a mistake	Oct 25 11:57
Diablo-D3	this is what sp1 should have been	Oct 25 11:57
schestowitz	He said he would make XP SP1 and 2 a separate OS	Oct 25 11:57
schestowitz	Or something to that effect	Oct 25 11:57
schestowitz	Bascially, SP means free 'upgrade'/patches in MS terminology	Oct 25 11:57
schestowitz	"New version" is code for "time to pay up again for the same thing"	Oct 25 11:58
schestowitz	Same for Office	Oct 25 11:58
schestowitz	SP vs version	Oct 25 11:58
Diablo-D3	this is why I dont pay for ms products	Oct 25 11:58
schestowitz	SPs haven't new wallpapers :-)	Oct 25 11:58
schestowitz	Shame...	Oct 25 11:59
schestowitz	They come via LAN, not a box that's impossible to open	Oct 25 11:59
schestowitz	ANd impossible to u/g to as well	Oct 25 11:59
schestowitz	XP->Vista upgrade in-place was broken	Oct 25 11:59
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schestowitz	Microsoft delayed Vista release due to it	Oct 25 11:59
schestowitz	But it released too early nonetheless	Oct 25 11:59
Mutex_	why are we still talking about vista and XP, they are history, or is it you have trouble finding fault with Win 7 ?	Oct 25 12:00
DavidGerard	vista is actually completely analogous to the Ford Edsel.	Oct 25 12:02
Mutex_	how so.	Oct 25 12:03
DavidGerard	windows 7 is an attempt to be analogous to the Ford Comet ...	Oct 25 12:03
DavidGerard	which was really a rebranded Edsel.	Oct 25 12:03
DavidGerard	read the wikipedia article on the Edsel.	Oct 25 12:03
DavidGerard	it was a hugely expensive research project, it underperformed in practice, it was too expensive, and consumers hated it.	Oct 25 12:03
DavidGerard	and the manufacturing quality was awful.	Oct 25 12:04
oiaohm	Win 7 issue start off with some basics too power hungery. Take too long to boot. And don't run on the full range of hardware out there.	Oct 25 12:04
Mutex_	so what has that go to do with Win 7 >?	Oct 25 12:04
DavidGerard	it was the same sort of corporate hubris.	Oct 25 12:04
DavidGerard	ford's attempt to get out of it was to rebrand the 1960 Ford Edsel Comet as just the Ford Comet.	Oct 25 12:04
DavidGerard	it was really an Edsel	Oct 25 12:04
oiaohm	We are basically at the end of the Wintel age Mutex_	Oct 25 12:04
DavidGerard	but they made it look like the other Fords	Oct 25 12:04
DavidGerard	and the marketing worked. the comet was a huge hit.	Oct 25 12:04
Mutex_	ok, so based on your "argument" I have an IQ question for you.	Oct 25 12:05
DavidGerard	even though it was an edsel under the skin.	Oct 25 12:05
schestowitz	DavidGerard: that burger doesn't look the same in reality (As in the commercials	Oct 25 12:05
Mutex_	Vista is to Win 7, as Linux is to ???	Oct 25 12:05
DavidGerard	Mutex_: linux in five years.	Oct 25 12:05
Mutex_	so "vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to Linux in 5 years " ???? !!!	Oct 25 12:06
DavidGerard	or any two LTS versions of Ubuntu.	Oct 25 12:06
DavidGerard	the same thing but improved.	Oct 25 12:06
oiaohm	Mutex_: what is more dominate in market uptake phones or pc's Mutex_	Oct 25 12:06
DavidGerard	linux distros improve on a much faster timescale than windows	Oct 25 12:06
schestowitz	DavidGerard: just FYI, Mutex_ hangs out here to hackele and troll	Oct 25 12:06
oiaohm	Then you wake up phone makers and pc makers are crossing turf at moment.	Oct 25 12:06
Mutex_	But linux has been around for what 18 years now,	Oct 25 12:07
oiaohm	Phone makers are inching into the netbook market.	Oct 25 12:07
Mutex_	Roy, I hang out here to see what claims your making at any time, so how would you answer that simple IQ question Roy ?	Oct 25 12:07
oiaohm	And how many years has x.org had funded developers Mutex_	Oct 25 12:07
oiaohm	4 years.	Oct 25 12:07
Mutex_	so	Oct 25 12:08
oiaohm	So basically for 14 years no gave a crap about graphical usage..	Oct 25 12:08
oiaohm	It was nothing more than something for fun.	Oct 25 12:08
DavidGerard	oiaohm: basically. xfree86 worked well enough.	Oct 25 12:08
Mutex_	So Roy, A question ... Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to ?????	Oct 25 12:08
DavidGerard	however, suse was employing keith packard to work on xfree86 through the late 1990s.	Oct 25 12:08
DavidGerard	it was the early 2000s that xfree86's cathedralism became a really big problem.	Oct 25 12:09
oiaohm	DavidGerard: keith had to split time.	Oct 25 12:09
DavidGerard	leading to the xorg breakaway.	Oct 25 12:09
DavidGerard	yeah but	Oct 25 12:09
DavidGerard	since the late 1980s, the centre of x development has been wherever keithp is.	Oct 25 12:09
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Its the second judge who is running "ecourts" in rhel wants me to enable video playback! rhn subscription was disabled ; Need help!		Oct 25 12:09
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #fglrx 9.10 is out, support for Radeon 5xxx series cards, still can't wait for #radeon & #radeonhd to be complete enough to run modern games		Oct 25 12:09
DavidGerard	full stop.	Oct 25 12:09
Mutex_	Roy generally there is a time limit on IQ questions :)	Oct 25 12:09
DavidGerard	he is dr x!	Oct 25 12:09
oiaohm	Last 4 years we have more than 1 developer paid on X11 DavidGerard	Oct 25 12:10
DavidGerard	schestowitz: nevertheless my answer is accurate ;-)	Oct 25 12:10
DavidGerard	oiaohm: yes indeed. it was xorg that started it to the dizzying heights of trying to drag it kicking and screaming out of the 1990s.	Oct 25 12:10
oiaohm	One of the big shocks is Nvidia stating to openly offer x.org patches.	Oct 25 12:10
Mutex_	Hmmm no reply Roy,, fair enough,,, Nuff said I guess. your silence kind of says it all.. IMO	Oct 25 12:11
DavidGerard	oiaohm: i suspect because nouveau is no longer marked "here be dragons, devs only" but is actually marginally usable.	Oct 25 12:11
oiaohm	Mutex_: You are asking to future.	Oct 25 12:11
DavidGerard	and because amd/ati is taking its open source drivers seriously.	Oct 25 12:12
Mutex_	"you are asking to future"... Hmmmm,	Oct 25 12:12
oiaohm	Ie windows 7 is many years latter than Vista.	Oct 25 12:12
oiaohm	So since Linux is kinda a timeless maker how can we give a valid answer Mutex_	Oct 25 12:12
Mutex_	ok perhaps you might like to answer that simple IQ question, that Roy does not seem to want to address.	Oct 25 12:12
DavidGerard	oiaohm: i think watching the likely evolution of linux is reasonable.	Oct 25 12:13
Mutex_	A question ... Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to ?????	Oct 25 12:13
DavidGerard	Mutex_: no, he doesn't want to address you. there's a difference.	Oct 25 12:13
DavidGerard	i answered the question. do you have a correct answer in mind?	Oct 25 12:13
Mutex_	does not want too, or cannot, all the same to me.	Oct 25 12:13
oiaohm	Why answer a question that is not a valid question Mutex_	Oct 25 12:13
DavidGerard	if it's an iq test it has a right answer.	Oct 25 12:13
DavidGerard	it's all the same to you because of registry corruption.	Oct 25 12:13
Mutex_	well can anyone else, mabey one of Roy's guard Dogs will stick up for him.	Oct 25 12:13
oiaohm	You could even answer it stupidly.,	Oct 25 12:13
oiaohm	Since Linux is timeless.	Oct 25 12:14
DavidGerard	i uderstand there are products from flashing ad banners that promise to fix that	Oct 25 12:14
DavidGerard	and they'll even in stall a free antivirus, apparently.	Oct 25 12:14
oiaohm	Linux is to Linux would be a valid answer Mutex_	Oct 25 12:14
DavidGerard	you appear to have installed several of these in your brain.	Oct 25 12:14
Mutex_	ok, so from this I understand no one here can answer my VERY SIMPLE QUESTION.. Nuff said.	Oct 25 12:14
oiaohm	Its like asking Windows is to ...	Oct 25 12:14
DavidGerard	Mutex_: i did answer it.	Oct 25 12:14
DavidGerard	what is the answer you had in mind, mutex?	Oct 25 12:14
oiaohm	Then answer Windows is to ....	Oct 25 12:14
DavidGerard	did you have an answer in mind?	Oct 25 12:14
oiaohm	Same question asking for a time compare to a item that is timeless Mutex_	Oct 25 12:15
Mutex_	funny David I dont see your answer in the log.	Oct 25 12:15
DavidGerard	Mutex_: you even questioned my answer.	Oct 25 12:15
DavidGerard	<DavidGerard> Mutex_: linux in five years.	Oct 25 12:15
Mutex_	ok, So I can safely assume that no one here is willing to answer that simple question, and expecially Roy.	Oct 25 12:15
DavidGerard	<Mutex_> so "vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to Linux in 5 years " ???? !!!	Oct 25 12:15
DavidGerard	<DavidGerard> or any two LTS versions of Ubuntu.	Oct 25 12:15
DavidGerard	<DavidGerard> the same thing but improved.	Oct 25 12:15
Mutex_	Case Closed.	Oct 25 12:15
DavidGerard	Mutex_: as trolls go, you have a severe case of registry corruption.	Oct 25 12:16
oiaohm	Mutex_: "A question ... Vista is to Win 7 as Windows is to ?????" Answer this form.	Oct 25 12:16
Mutex_	Ok, so you cant answer a simple question, so you resort to attacking me... Nice work.	Oct 25 12:16
oiaohm	If you can answer it you have a valid question Mutex_	Oct 25 12:16
oiaohm	If you cannot you don't.	Oct 25 12:16
DavidGerard	Mutex_: have you considered a future in creationism advocacy?	Oct 25 12:16
Mutex_	I can asnwer it.. ofcourse	Oct 25 12:16
DavidGerard	Mutex_: what is your answer to that simple question?	Oct 25 12:17
Mutex_	I want to know if you can.	Oct 25 12:17
DavidGerard	i did. what is your answer?	Oct 25 12:17
oiaohm	I have already provided answers.	Oct 25 12:17
schestowitz	Meh. http://www.regionaltimes.com/18oct2009/moneynews/mircosoft.htm	Oct 25 12:17
oiaohm	Note mine has windows there not Linux.	Oct 25 12:17
Mutex_	If you "give up" and ask nicely I may give you the answer but I would have hoped you could come up with ityourself.	Oct 25 12:17
Mutex_	Its not that hard !!	Oct 25 12:17
schestowitz	trmanco: where are you?	Oct 25 12:17
oiaohm	Both are timeless markers that cannot really be compared.	Oct 25 12:17
DavidGerard	you've been eating Windows 7 burgers, haven't you.	Oct 25 12:17
DavidGerard	your brain is clogging up with prions from mad cow disease.	Oct 25 12:18
schestowitz	7 Windows burgers	Oct 25 12:18
schestowitz	Cholesterol Screen of Death	Oct 25 12:18
DavidGerard	so you forget stuff people said five minutes ago while getting pissier and pissier.	Oct 25 12:18
DavidGerard	it's very sad.	Oct 25 12:18
oiaohm	Timeless markets will change meaning with time Mutex_	Oct 25 12:18
Mutex_	again, resorting to personal attacks, when you have nothing else to call on, it's called the LOWEST common factor	Oct 25 12:18
oiaohm	I don't believe you can answer it vaild Mutex_	Oct 25 12:18
oiaohm	I think you have something that is a joke answer Mutex_	Oct 25 12:19
Mutex_	sure you can, it's a simple question, why are you having so much trouble with it ?	Oct 25 12:19
oiaohm	Because you don't understand the question you ask.	Oct 25 12:19
schestowitz	When does the v7 family guy episode air?	Oct 25 12:19
Mutex_	Oh right, I dont understand it ... LOL	Oct 25 12:19
schestowitz	It would maybe be as hilarious as those viral v7 launch party videos	Oct 25 12:19
oiaohm	You have asked a question with a time context. Mutex_	Oct 25 12:20
Mutex_	Roy why dont you answer the question, to enlighten your followers.	Oct 25 12:20
Mutex_	instead of letting your guard dogs talk for you	Oct 25 12:20
schestowitz	There's no "Followers'	Oct 25 12:20
schestowitz	It's not a movement	Oct 25 12:20
oiaohm	Common MS person stunt Mutex_	Oct 25 12:20
schestowitz	Stop trolling	Oct 25 12:20
Mutex_	sure	Oct 25 12:20
oiaohm	Completely in breach of rules of english.	Oct 25 12:20
schestowitz	There are no 'attack dogs', either	Oct 25 12:20
Mutex_	oh ok... LOL	Oct 25 12:20
schestowitz	You're pushing the limits to be kickbanned again	Oct 25 12:20
schestowitz	You offer nothing here other than attacks on people	Oct 25 12:20
oiaohm	Yes I am crap at typing it but I do know the rules enough to to ask a stupid question pushing a time context.	Oct 25 12:20
oiaohm	Then using a term that does not have a time context Mutex_	Oct 25 12:21
Mutex_	because I say things that make you uncomfortable, Im sorry, but sometimes people like to know what your about,	Oct 25 12:21
oiaohm	No Mutex_	Oct 25 12:21
oiaohm	Give me your answer. Lets see how bad you have it wrong.	Oct 25 12:21
Mutex_	and im not the one who links Vista and Win 7 trying to tie them together, so I ask again.	Oct 25 12:21
DavidGerard	windows 7 from Viz: http://i.imgur.com/YeCS0.jpg	Oct 25 12:21
oiaohm	Rules of english and a question and example you created the context of the question.	Oct 25 12:22
Mutex_	So you agree, then you want to ban me for saying things you dont like to here, not for "abuse" as you have previously claimed, and that I asked you to show,	Oct 25 12:22
oiaohm	If you did not want to apply a time context you should not have used past and future forms of the same thing.	Oct 25 12:22
DavidGerard	kickbanning is appropriate for attempts at prion-like suffocation of conversation with deliberate stupidity	Oct 25 12:23
oiaohm	Ie Vista and Win 7 are both windows at two different time points.	Oct 25 12:23
Mutex_	so if you asnser is "Linux in 5 years" does that mean Linux TODAY is like Vista ?	Oct 25 12:23
oiaohm	No Mutex_	Oct 25 12:24
Mutex_	thats what you said.	Oct 25 12:24
Mutex_	remeber my question do you.	Oct 25 12:24
DavidGerard	personally i don't like linux at all. I far prefer freebsd.	Oct 25 12:24
DavidGerard	please kick mutex, he's being of negative net worth again	Oct 25 12:24
oiaohm	Rules of that kind of question there iis no link between example and question.	Oct 25 12:24
Mutex_	is negative bad David,	Oct 25 12:24
oiaohm	Please stop mudering english for your own ends Mutex_	Oct 25 12:24
Mutex_	or is it you just dont like answering hard questions?	Oct 25 12:25
Mutex_	it's easier to isolate than explain yourself. and your movives.	Oct 25 12:25
oiaohm	Ie " Vista is to Win 7	Oct 25 12:25
oiaohm	that is example.	Oct 25 12:25
schestowitz	Dog Purchases 5,000 Microsoft Points On Owners Xbox Live Account http://www.talkxbox.com/article3429.html	Oct 25 12:25
schestowitz	Easy to use..?	Oct 25 12:25
oiaohm	Example gives guidence how to solve question.	Oct 25 12:25
oiaohm	Not part of question Mutex_	Oct 25 12:25
oiaohm	Please use english right.	Oct 25 12:25
DavidGerard	it's like talking politics with US conservatives - after a short time you realise they literally don't understand the words they're using	Oct 25 12:26
schestowitz	oh, DavidGerard , did you see my quoting you yesterday in the Vista 7 post?	Oct 25 12:26
Mutex_	look it's clear your not capable of answering that simple question, so Ill leave it at that. it's a bit sad though. it's not that hard	Oct 25 12:26
oiaohm	You question was only linux is to..... With a time applied context.	Oct 25 12:26
DavidGerard	then they demand you explain something that made no sense in the first place using their made-up terms with made-up meanings.	Oct 25 12:26
oiaohm	No Mutex_ You got your english wrong.	Oct 25 12:26
DavidGerard	schestowitz: oh yes	Oct 25 12:26
oiaohm	I should expect no different from a MS troll.	Oct 25 12:27
DavidGerard	then they die when they can't pay a $50,000 medical bill. so, happy ending.	Oct 25 12:27
schestowitz	oiaohm: you help the troll derail the discussion and turn it to VIsta 7 boosting (and Linux bashing)	Oct 25 12:27
Mutex_	now im a troll,,,, C'mon ANSWER the simple question, and enough with the personal attacks.	Oct 25 12:27
oiaohm	When you create it in correct english schestowitz might have to Mutex_	Oct 25 12:28
Mutex_	gees I thought I asked a simple question that would of taken one line to anserm, and look what ive DONE !!! :)	Oct 25 12:28
oiaohm	No you though you could ask a question you could alter the context of peoples answers Mutex_ to do what ever you want.	Oct 25 12:29
schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll	Oct 25 12:29
Mutex_	Im sorry, I can ask a question, you're answer is your answer, NOT mine.	Oct 25 12:29
schestowitz	"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"	Oct 25 12:29
oiaohm	Yet you are so bad asking questions in english you created a invalid question Mutex_	Oct 25 12:29
Mutex_	you blaming me for you're answer ?	Oct 25 12:29
Mutex_	this is ontopic,	Oct 25 12:30
oiaohm	Yet you have not answers my question either Mutex_	Oct 25 12:30
Mutex_	what was that	Oct 25 12:30
oiaohm	I have at least provide my example answers.	Oct 25 12:30
oiaohm	Mutex_: "A question ... Vista is to Win 7 as Windows is to ?????" Answer this form.	Oct 25 12:30
Mutex_	Hay, that look's just like the question I asked you guys, so you now want me to answer it for you too ?	Oct 25 12:31
Mutex_	And the answer is "windows" for your question.	Oct 25 12:32
Mutex_	and if you need me to explain to you the answer to my question, say "I give" and ill give you the answer, if you cant work it out yourself.	Oct 25 12:32
schestowitz	Microsoft spins the preorders trick to create illusions: http://live.iencyclopedia.org/2009/10/windows-7-sales-more-than-vista.html	Oct 25 12:34
schestowitz	Vista did not put emphasis on preorders	Oct 25 12:34
schestowitz	So they compare apple and oranges	Oct 25 12:34
schestowitz	Also, the likes of the BBC added promotional links to preorders	Oct 25 12:35
schestowitz	THis is part of the successful /initial/ hype 'product'	Oct 25 12:35
schestowitz	I'm finding more evidence of it failing a week/month before launch	Oct 25 12:35
schestowitz	What is this creature? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8310867.stm	Oct 25 12:37
schestowitz	DavidGerard: how's the head?	Oct 25 12:38
DavidGerard	coughing up rancid slime and windows 7	Oct 25 12:39
DavidGerard	need to visit the doctor tomorrow for some antibiotics i think	Oct 25 12:40
DavidGerard	assuming this isn't all just viral	Oct 25 12:40
DavidGerard	the kid has a terrible case of windows 7 too, coughing and nose dripping snot	Oct 25 12:40
oiaohm	Note I also said Linux was a valid answer so was Windows in 5 years would also be a valid answer Mutex_	Oct 25 12:41
schestowitz	Does Freda use ubuntu? Tuxpaint?	Oct 25 12:42
oiaohm	Simple problem here you asked a question with too many valid answers because of lack of understanding of the question you asked Mutex_	Oct 25 12:42
Mutex_	so Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to Linux...... great :)	Oct 25 12:42
oiaohm	Linux is to Linux in 5 years time is also a valid answer.	Oct 25 12:42
oiaohm	Since Linux in 5 years time is still a future form Mutex_	Oct 25 12:42
DavidGerard	schestowitz: not yet	Oct 25 12:43
Mutex_	in that case you are saying Linux (today) is to VISTA, great again.... thanks for that.	Oct 25 12:43
DavidGerard	she basically uses the flash player to watch iplayer :-D	Oct 25 12:43
oiaohm	No you are not Mutex_	Oct 25 12:43
DavidGerard	oiaohm: please stop engaging with the troll	Oct 25 12:43
Mutex_	no that's what you said.	Oct 25 12:43
Mutex_	not me	Oct 25 12:43
oiaohm	Note I gave the answer Linux to your first question what I was refering to Mutex_	Oct 25 12:44
DavidGerard	there's an application called babysplat, which is for windows but is opeen source and runs perfectly under wine	Oct 25 12:44
DavidGerard	you thump any key and a random shape pops up on the screen and it makes a noise	Oct 25 12:44
DavidGerard	this DELIGHTS her	Oct 25 12:44
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Getting KDE4 on windows: http://www.thinkdigit.com/Features/Getting-KDE4-on-Windows_3550.html		Oct 25 12:44
DavidGerard	the best kids' toys are really simple	Oct 25 12:44
oiaohm	But you are wanting to create link between example and question answered that is invalid under the rules of english Mutex_	Oct 25 12:44
DavidGerard	right now she's playing iwth a spoon, spinning it round and round	Oct 25 12:44
Mutex_	yes, I know you did, so you are saying Vista is to Linux (today) and Win 7 in Linux (in 5 years), do you understand how these types are questions work ?	Oct 25 12:45
DavidGerard	very excited to be able to make a spoon spin round	Oct 25 12:45
oiaohm	No Mutex_ breach of rules of english.	Oct 25 12:45
oiaohm	You have crossed example with question.	Oct 25 12:45
DavidGerard	huh, i tried kde for windows	Oct 25 12:45
Mutex_	well YOU explain it please,,, Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is too ??????	Oct 25 12:45
DavidGerard	it basically didn't work.	Oct 25 12:45
DavidGerard	no programs would work.	Oct 25 12:45
oiaohm	The as is a break everything before as is an example of context.	Oct 25 12:46
oiaohm	In your question Mutex_	Oct 25 12:46
oiaohm	egg is to bird as pup is to ???? Mutex_	Oct 25 12:46
Mutex_	you've never done an IQ test oiaohm, I take it	Oct 25 12:46
Mutex_	Ive done many	Oct 25 12:46
oiaohm	Is there any releation ship between egg and pub	Oct 25 12:47
oiaohm	pup.	Oct 25 12:47
oiaohm	Answer no Mutex_	Oct 25 12:47
Mutex_	(got)	Oct 25 12:47
Mutex_	(Dog)	Oct 25 12:47
oiaohm	You poor undersanding of english is causing problem.	Oct 25 12:47
Mutex_	Egg is to bird as Pup is to dog,,, gee you cannot work that out ?	Oct 25 12:47
oiaohm	Now rewite that how you did with the answers to your question.	Oct 25 12:48
oiaohm	using my example and see how stupid you are being	Oct 25 12:48
Mutex_	Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to Linux.	Oct 25 12:48
Mutex_	so there, ive answered it for you, it's sad you could not do that yourself.	Oct 25 12:49
oiaohm	You rewrite " know you did, so you are saying Vista is to Linux (today) and Win 7 in Linux (in 5 years)"	Oct 25 12:49
Mutex_	no thats what David said...	Oct 25 12:49
oiaohm	egg is pup and bird is in dog	Oct 25 12:49
Mutex_	I did not say that. i commented on it	Oct 25 12:49
oiaohm	Yes complextly stupid.	Oct 25 12:50
oiaohm	completely stupid.	Oct 25 12:50
Mutex_	sure oiaohm, you dont too well in IQ tests ??? I wonder, (not accusing).	Oct 25 12:50
oiaohm	LOL Mutex_	Oct 25 12:50
oiaohm	I do very well in the logic side.	Oct 25 12:51
Mutex_	well your the one who siad "egg is to pup "and" bit is in dog... ???? WTF does that mean LOL	Oct 25 12:51
oiaohm	No Mutex_ that was answer to your stupid line.	Oct 25 12:52
Mutex_	"egg is pup and bird is in dog" great	Oct 25 12:52
oiaohm	Of course that line is stupid.	Oct 25 12:53
Mutex_	agreed.	Oct 25 12:53
Mutex_	so why say it	Oct 25 12:53
*schestowitz looks at http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Oxygen-Molecule+KDE+%26+GTK%2B+unified+theme?content=103741		Oct 25 12:53
oiaohm	It was the same kind of stupid your interlinked context was doing.	Oct 25 12:53
schestowitz	[12:43] <DavidGerard> she basically uses the flash player to watch iplayer :-D	Oct 25 12:53
schestowitz	I see...	Oct 25 12:53
schestowitz	Well, it's nice that there is loosers desktop integration with video now	Oct 25 12:54
Mutex_	no mine is a standard for of question used in IQ testing to assess people ability to group and think laterally	Oct 25 12:54
oiaohm	Invalid interlinked context Mutex_ by the rules of english because the results are stupid.	Oct 25 12:54
schestowitz	Back in the days playing videos was a breaking point for Linux	Oct 25 12:54
schestowitz	Now I watch HD videos over the network	Oct 25 12:54
Mutex_	for which you appear to have some difficulity.	Oct 25 12:54
Mutex_	thats why I asked if you had done many IQ tests ever.	Oct 25 12:54
Mutex_	It's a very very common form of question.	Oct 25 12:54
oiaohm	To be correct Mutex_ written invilad english to test laterally thinking is only found on USA created IQ tests.	Oct 25 12:54
schestowitz	[12:44] <DavidGerard> right now she's playing iwth a spoon, spinning it round and round	Oct 25 12:55
schestowitz	As long as it's not Uri Geller-like mumbo jumbo :-)	Oct 25 12:55
Mutex_	im not in the US oiaohm, im in the same country as you	Oct 25 12:55
oiaohm	Most IQ tests done in australia are from USA ones Mutex_	Oct 25 12:55
oiaohm	So you are not aware that a common question is truly invalid.	Oct 25 12:56
Mutex_	so it's still a standard form of question, and BTW there is nothing wrong with the english or structure of the question.	Oct 25 12:56
Mutex_	on that point you are just plain wrong	Oct 25 12:56
*DaemonFC (i=Ryan@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Oct 25 12:56
oiaohm	There is Mutex_	Oct 25 12:57
oiaohm	You created a question with almost unlimited numbers of correct answers.	Oct 25 12:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @davidgerard windows 7 burger.. http://is.gd/4AH4Y the moment you touch windows 7, it starts dripping grease and LARD http://is.gd/4AH7O		Oct 25 12:58
Mutex_	no only one correct answer,	Oct 25 12:58
oiaohm	There is not one correct answer that is the problem.	Oct 25 12:58
Mutex_	there actually is, or at least a very limited set of correct answers,	Oct 25 12:59
oiaohm	Its a commonly overlooked error in tests.	Oct 25 12:59
Mutex_	what is ?	Oct 25 13:00
oiaohm	Linux + time of any possitve value would been correct to your question .	Oct 25 13:00
schestowitz	Heh. From TC: "But Mike…Americans really do eat too much. I’m American, I eat too much. I dunno about the disgusting, because it all taste really freaking good."	Oct 25 13:00
oiaohm	But Linux is to Linux is incorrect any reason why Mutex_	Oct 25 13:00
oiaohm	Even that USA linked ones where the error first appeared.	Oct 25 13:00
oiaohm	Because both would be the same time Mutex_	Oct 25 13:01
oiaohm	And the example gives a time difference.	Oct 25 13:01
Mutex_	allright Ill refrase the question with typical BN bias, "Vista is to 'Vista 7' as Linux is too ?????	Oct 25 13:01
oiaohm	Same Vista 7 applies a future time.	Oct 25 13:02
oiaohm	You changed nothing about the question .	Oct 25 13:02
Mutex_	ok fair enough, that that means you are comparing Linux today with Vista, and Linux in the future to Win 7, but thats a fair answer, I can accept that.... Thanks :)	Oct 25 13:02
DaemonFC	schestowitz, My neighbor, who cleans my mom's house, comes over and knocks on the door. Glad I didn't open it now, cause she told me through the door later in the conversation she has the flu	Oct 25 13:03
oiaohm	Do the dog and bird again.	Oct 25 13:03
Mutex_	No "takebacksys"	Oct 25 13:03
DaemonFC	I told her not to come in or go into my mom's house ten called my mom, she was like "Are you SURE it's the flu?"	Oct 25 13:03
DaemonFC	I was like "Gee, I don't know, should I open the door and find out?"	Oct 25 13:03
oiaohm	Swap Linux today with egg, Vista with pup, Linux future with bird and Windows 7 with dog and tell me if you have a sane line Mutex_	Oct 25 13:04
oiaohm	All are equally releated nowns Mutex_	Oct 25 13:04
oiaohm	So are swapable and sentence should read sane.	Oct 25 13:04
oiaohm	What yours don't Mutex_	Oct 25 13:04
DaemonFC	swine flu is spreading like wildfire around here	Oct 25 13:04
DaemonFC	schools are being closed because literally half or more of the students have it	Oct 25 13:05
DaemonFC	I really don't feel like going anywhere I don't have to	Oct 25 13:05
oiaohm	Basically you are failing a IQ tested big time. Mutex_	Oct 25 13:05
DaemonFC	our government is too incompetent to make the vaccine fast enough	Oct 25 13:05
Mutex_	ok sure I am, and you have dogs eating birds,,,, LOL	Oct 25 13:06
DaemonFC	I took the vaccine on Friday, but it won't give me immunity until around next Friday	Oct 25 13:06
oiaohm	You are creating an answer out of a question that does not give the answer you are after Mutex_	Oct 25 13:06
Mutex_	it's ok, if you dont understand,,, really it is.... dont stress it...	Oct 25 13:06
DaemonFC	so I'm trying to avoid it until then	Oct 25 13:06
oiaohm	Ask a correct question Mutex_	Oct 25 13:07
schestowitz	'Mr. Klugian underscored his remark by reminding reporters that Iran attempted to install Microsoft Vista over three years ago: "They still haven't gotten that to work."' http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-borowitz/iran-trying-to-install-mi_b_332769.html	Oct 25 13:07
oiaohm	Or are you too dumb to be able to ask a correct question to get the answers you want Mutex_	Oct 25 13:07
DaemonFC	schestowitz, Well, it's because Iran is not paying for any of it	Oct 25 13:07
DaemonFC	and Microsoft couldn't sell it to them anyway due to the embargo	Oct 25 13:07
schestowitz	DaemonFC: it has Parsix	Oct 25 13:07
DaemonFC	hah	Oct 25 13:08
DaemonFC	good luck with that	Oct 25 13:08
Mutex_	it did, im sorry you have trouble with it, it is after all an IQ question, it sad you have to resort to attacking the question as opposed to simply answering it,,, but I understand the real answer does not suit the "facts" espoused here.	Oct 25 13:08
schestowitz	Schools run a Debian/Ubuntu derivative gradually	Oct 25 13:08
schestowitz	They snub the US	Oct 25 13:08
oiaohm	Mutex_: Its a question you pulled from a defective IQ test and reworded. You missed lots of important things.	Oct 25 13:09
zer0c00l	i have a doubt, fedora cannot be legally used in nations which comes under "us export regulations" ?	Oct 25 13:09
DaemonFC	schestowitz, I don't think the best ad for Linux is that all the repressive, unstable, third world dictatorships use it	Oct 25 13:09
DaemonFC	zer0c00l, There's nothing in Fedora that would stop Iran from using it	Oct 25 13:09
Mutex_	ok, oiaohm, I understand you dont like or quite understand that type of association question, I can accept that...	Oct 25 13:09
DaemonFC	Rd Hat wouldn't be in any trouble anyway, since they didn't sell them anything	Oct 25 13:09
Mutex_	thanks for trying thought.	Oct 25 13:09
DaemonFC	you can give them stuff, jsut not sell it	Oct 25 13:10
oiaohm	The egg bird pup dog is the classic example that pointed out the error in that question Mutex_	Oct 25 13:10
DaemonFC	*Red Hat	Oct 25 13:10
zer0c00l	DaemonFC: Seems like one cannot export it http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export	Oct 25 13:10
oiaohm	Its the only IQ test question to ever end up in PHD english books Mutex_	Oct 25 13:10
Mutex_	oiaohm, then im sure you would be ableto easily explain to all those here how that question works then... I look forward to that.	Oct 25 13:11
DaemonFC	zer0c00l, Well, they can't go after Red Hat anyway	Oct 25 13:11
oiaohm	Of how to get english wrong Mutex_	Oct 25 13:11
zer0c00l	DaemonFC: ok	Oct 25 13:11
DaemonFC	zer0c00l, And nothing stops you from sending a Fedora ISO to a Canadian server and then to Iran	Oct 25 13:11
DaemonFC	:)	Oct 25 13:11
Mutex_	oh wait, if you dont know something here, it's easier to just "attack" it.... that I too can understand.	Oct 25 13:11
oiaohm	I tried fixing my english by learn more and more about it Mutex_	Oct 25 13:11
Mutex_	keep trying. !!	Oct 25 13:11
oiaohm	End result is I end up with complex english mixed with bad .	Oct 25 13:12
DaemonFC	zer0c00l, Export laws don't really work well with free software	Oct 25 13:12
DaemonFC	they still use Firefox in "Parsix"	Oct 25 13:12
DaemonFC	that has the same export restriction	Oct 25 13:12
oiaohm	No matter how much study you do dyslexia is not cured.	Oct 25 13:12
DaemonFC	Iran isn't stable anyway	Oct 25 13:13
Mutex_	it's also not an english literature question, its an IQ question,	Oct 25 13:13
DaemonFC	they rely solely on one non-renewable resource and can't even refine enough oil to meet their own demands	Oct 25 13:14
DaemonFC	they end up reimporting it	Oct 25 13:14
oiaohm	Problem is it IQ question context taken from it is invalid Mutex_	Oct 25 13:14
Mutex_	it's common to question the question, when you cannot find the right answer, but its dont, and whats done is done.	Oct 25 13:14
oiaohm	Best test of a english question to confirm how valid it is. Takes swaping the nowns out.	Oct 25 13:15
oiaohm	Now if answers remain sane context you are taking is sane.	Oct 25 13:15
oiaohm	If answers go insane you have bad context.	Oct 25 13:15
Mutex_	you can be as critical as you like about the question, but it's not that hard , and its a common method of assessing your IQ. Do you always question the question if you dont understand it. as opposed to trying to just answer it ?	Oct 25 13:15
Mutex_	mabye ioaohm, you are not the best one to debate this subject.	Oct 25 13:16
oiaohm	Problem was I understood the question	Oct 25 13:17
oiaohm	Exactly what classes of answers it could take.	Oct 25 13:17
Mutex_	really,,, !!!! ok,, then why are you having so much troublewith it ?	Oct 25 13:17
oiaohm	No I am having trouble with you building context out of it that don't exist.	Oct 25 13:18
oiaohm	And that is poor understanding of english.	Oct 25 13:18
oiaohm	Mostly because you are not PHD class english.	Oct 25 13:18
DavidGerard	his english is fine. he's trolling.	Oct 25 13:19
schestowitz	LOL http://identi.ca/frankenspock	Oct 25 13:19
schestowitz	"My wife is weird. I love her lots though."	Oct 25 13:19
Mutex_	I didnt build any context, I was going on BN's context, of refering to Win 7 and "vista 7" so I ask, "Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is too ???? .. It's you guys who want to try to connect Vista with Win 7, but at the same time, cannot connect Linux with "anything "...	Oct 25 13:19
oiaohm	Are Vista and Win 7 releated.	Oct 25 13:21
schestowitz	Does anyone still remember WinMob 6.5?	Oct 25 13:21
schestowitz	http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354478,00.asp	Oct 25 13:21
Mutex_	yes,, is linux and linux related ?	Oct 25 13:21
oiaohm	Vista 7 is also something MS did on a Slide show Mutex_	Oct 25 13:21
schestowitz	Sounds like it's broken	Oct 25 13:21
oiaohm	For windows 7	Oct 25 13:21
schestowitz	oiaohm: Vista 7 is a second take at Vista	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	Reducing some cruft in the code	Oct 25 13:22
DavidGerard	schestowitz: the mini-microsoft post with everyone chiming in bitching about winmo was heartwarming	Oct 25 13:22
oiaohm	Lets just say we don't forget a MS typo Mutex_	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	Changing the UI somewhat (mostly the task bar and stuff)	Oct 25 13:22
DavidGerard	remember, these are the people hwo've completely drunk the ms koolaid	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	The rest is mostly the same	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	I notice there is little coverage of the reelase	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	Vista had FAR more coverage at the time	Oct 25 13:22
Mutex_	wow a typo,,,, how evil.. !!!!	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	ANd it's already quiet	Oct 25 13:22
schestowitz	Which is why I aksed about Family Guy episode	Oct 25 13:23
oiaohm	Its the media game you take every slip up you can get Mutex_	Oct 25 13:23
DavidGerard	is the ms astroturf engine slowing? are they throwing everything at win7?	Oct 25 13:23
schestowitz	Other than TV ads Microsoft can't keep up the hype	Oct 25 13:23
schestowitz	It'll be like WinMob 6.5	Oct 25 13:23
DaemonFC	schestowitz, There's enough tweaks to the kernel and the Display Window Manager to make it a nice upgrade over Vista	Oct 25 13:23
DaemonFC	I don't think it's must have	Oct 25 13:23
Mutex_	yea, when your "digging for dirt" you take what you can get ... I know	Oct 25 13:23
DavidGerard	windows income halved since last year. that was especially heartwarming.	Oct 25 13:23
schestowitz	ANd reviews will come from hockey moms in blogspot who can't get the darn thing to work with peripherals	Oct 25 13:23
DaemonFC	if you have a quad-core CPU, it is worth having	Oct 25 13:23
oiaohm	Also its funny Mutex_	Oct 25 13:23
Mutex_	it's purile	Oct 25 13:24
oiaohm	Windows the generic term is used on BN as well Mutex_	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	[13:23] <DavidGerard> is the ms astroturf engine slowing? are they throwing everything at win7?	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	I caught something	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	With post coming	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	Microsoftliterally fed bloggers	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	By the hundreds	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	777 in Korea	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	Microsoft bribed them to blog praises of Vista 7	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	How predictable	Oct 25 13:24
schestowitz	Like it paid people with schwag to Twit about it	Oct 25 13:25
DavidGerard	the one thing to be thankful for about the Windows 7 burger: at least they didn't do this for Windows 98. http://supersizedmeals.com/food/article.php/20060125050438458	Oct 25 13:25
schestowitz	I don't think they break a law here	Oct 25 13:25
schestowitz	And that's what's sneaky about it	Oct 25 13:25
schestowitz	[13:23] <DavidGerard> windows income halved since last year. that was especially heartwarming.	Oct 25 13:25
schestowitz	Remember the role of Windows	Oct 25 13:25
schestowitz	No Windows, no Office	Oct 25 13:26
schestowitz	It's the common carrier	Oct 25 13:26
DavidGerard	yeah, office income was down only 10%	Oct 25 13:26
schestowitz	No Windows server, no XAML and drek	Oct 25 13:26
schestowitz	Then it's all LAMP and (x)html	Oct 25 13:26
DavidGerard	i suspect units shipped was actually similar	Oct 25 13:26
DavidGerard	but mostly on netbooks.	Oct 25 13:26
DavidGerard	did they break out units shipped?	Oct 25 13:26
DaemonFC	DavidGerard, lmao	Oct 25 13:27
DaemonFC	the Windows 2000 Whopper would have been even better	Oct 25 13:27
oiaohm	To be correct MS called Windows 7. Vista #2 Ie Vista take 2 Mutex_. So would you be upset if we called it Vista #2 ?	Oct 25 13:27
schestowitz	There's no Works now	Oct 25 13:27
schestowitz	They moved Office to advertising model	Oct 25 13:27
schestowitz	Google Apps has become too appealing to some large office users	Oct 25 13:27
schestowitz	Massive deployments	Oct 25 13:27
schestowitz	P&G, Disnet, NZ Post...	Oct 25 13:27
DaemonFC	schestowitz, I get Office for free too	Oct 25 13:27
schestowitz	*Disney	Oct 25 13:27
Mutex_	would you be upset if I called Linux .. UNIX.. ???	Oct 25 13:27
DaemonFC	I don't have it installed at the moment though	Oct 25 13:27
DavidGerard	windows ME II II	Oct 25 13:28
schestowitz	Vista = Windows 6	Oct 25 13:28
schestowitz	Vista 7 = WIndows 6.1	Oct 25 13:28
DaemonFC	Mutex_, Microsoft referred to Linux as a UNIX derivative	Oct 25 13:28
schestowitz	See Registry	Oct 25 13:28
schestowitz	Same product	Oct 25 13:28
cubezzz	what does GNU stand for?	Oct 25 13:28
Mutex_	Vista = Vista, Win 7 = Win 7,,, Linux = Linux	Oct 25 13:28
Mutex_	lets call a spade a spade.	Oct 25 13:28
DaemonFC	it would be more appropriate to have called it a UNIX workalike or proabably moreso a POSIX compliant system	Oct 25 13:28
DaemonFC	but oh well, UNIX derivative helps them de-legitimize it	Oct 25 13:29
cubezzz	GNU is Not Unix	Oct 25 13:29
schestowitz	ALso gives SCO their FUD	Oct 25 13:29
oiaohm	Vista is windows 6 Windows 7 is windows 6.1 Mutex_	Oct 25 13:29
cubezzz	pretty basic	Oct 25 13:29
schestowitz	They can link to the libelous SEC filing from their funder, MSFT	Oct 25 13:29
Mutex_	and Wine is not an emulator .... Right !!!	Oct 25 13:29
oiaohm	Its miss labled to start off with Mutex_	Oct 25 13:29
oiaohm	So we are just labeling it even worse Mutex_	Oct 25 13:29
Mutex_	so you are ok with being just as incorrect, ok, but that does not look so good for you !	Oct 25 13:30
DaemonFC	Microsoft Windows [Version 6.1.7600]	Oct 25 13:30
DaemonFC	Copyright (c) 2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.	Oct 25 13:30
DaemonFC	C:\Users\Ryan>	Oct 25 13:30
DaemonFC	all you have to do is open a command prompt :P	Oct 25 13:30
oiaohm	So why does windows 7 product id code return windows 6.1 then Mutex_	Oct 25 13:30
Mutex_	so in that case we have Linux 1 and Linux 2 I take it.	Oct 25 13:31
oiaohm	Yet Windows 4.0 returns Windows 4.0 as product id code.	Oct 25 13:31
DaemonFC	oiaohm, according to Microsoft, they broke a lot of applications when they gave Vista the 6.0 version number	Oct 25 13:31
DaemonFC	so they gave Windows 7 version 6.1	Oct 25 13:31
oiaohm	Linux does have version numbers Mutex_	Oct 25 13:31
oiaohm	Kernel version numbers Mutex_	Oct 25 13:31
DaemonFC	they're probably telling the truth there	Oct 25 13:31
Mutex_	I know,	Oct 25 13:31
Mutex_	thats why I asked my original questions.	Oct 25 13:31
cubezzz	well, I seem to remember seeing 2.4 and 2.6 a lot	Oct 25 13:31
Mutex_	thats right so thats Linux 2	Oct 25 13:32
DaemonFC	a lot of aplication developers, or at least enough to be an annoyance, hard code the program to look for a certain major version number	Oct 25 13:32
schestowitz	DaemonFC: Netbooks, Office likely to keep hurting Microsoft sales, analyst says http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139835/Netbooks_Office_likely_to_keep_hurting_Microsoft_sales_analyst_says_	Oct 25 13:32
Mutex_	and Linux 1 is 1.xx	Oct 25 13:32
oiaohm	Distributions say linux 2.4 and linux 2.6 a lot	Oct 25 13:32
oiaohm	Linux version numbers are 3 key numbers Mutex_	Oct 25 13:32
Mutex_	So Vista is to Win 7 as Linux 1 is to Linux 2	Oct 25 13:32
DaemonFC	Star Trek: Borg won't run on Windows 98 or later because it assumes that if you don't have Windows 95, your PC is too old	Oct 25 13:32
DaemonFC	:P	Oct 25 13:32
oiaohm	First 2 are core the ones after that are patch numbers.	Oct 25 13:32
oiaohm	Funny enough Windows is the same Mutex_	Oct 25 13:32
DaemonFC	old example, but that stuff still happens	Oct 25 13:32
schestowitz	DaemonFC: does RTM /still/ say 6.1?	Oct 25 13:33
DaemonFC	schestowitz, I've been using the RTM since June 24th, and yes	Oct 25 13:33
DaemonFC	6.1.7600	Oct 25 13:33
oiaohm	3.0 3.5 4.0 5.0 5.1 6.0 6.1 are windows version numbers Mutex_	Oct 25 13:33
DaemonFC	schestowitz, 6.1.7600.16385 to be precise	Oct 25 13:33
Mutex_	so,, we have a list of Linux versionstoo.. you're point ?	Oct 25 13:33
oiaohm	Where is the 7.0 version number Mutex_	Oct 25 13:34
oiaohm	It don't exist Mutex_	Oct 25 13:34
Mutex_	what ?? for windows or Linux ??	Oct 25 13:34
oiaohm	For windows Mutex_	Oct 25 13:34
DaemonFC	schestowitz, Windows 2000 was NT 5.0, XP was 5.1	Oct 25 13:34
DaemonFC	I see about the same difference between Vista and 7	Oct 25 13:34
DaemonFC	it's a minor release with a number of important changes	Oct 25 13:35
DaemonFC	not a whole new major version though	Oct 25 13:35
Mutex_	I am simply saying windows OS's have different versions, that ARE DIFFERENT VERSION, and Linux has different versions that ARE DIFFERENT VERSIONS too.	Oct 25 13:35
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Mutex_	so why dont I refer to RH 7.1 as Linux 7 ??	Oct 25 13:36
DaemonFC	schestowitz, I don't see people screaming that Linux hasn't done anything for 6 years because they're still on version 2.6	Oct 25 13:36
DaemonFC	(2003)	Oct 25 13:36
oiaohm	Because if you did Linus would sue your asss off Mutex_	Oct 25 13:36
Mutex_	for what again ?	Oct 25 13:36
schestowitz	DaemonFC: thanks	Oct 25 13:36
cubezzz	different distro numbering, that's all it is	Oct 25 13:36
oiaohm	You cannot put Linux with a version number that does not own to Linux kernel.	Oct 25 13:37
Mutex_	thankyou cubezzz,, dead right.	Oct 25 13:37
oiaohm	You must declare full distribution name.	Oct 25 13:37
DaemonFC	schestowitz, Microsoft has always had a friendly marketing name and an NT version number that was hidden a lot deeper	Oct 25 13:37
oiaohm	You are aware RH 7.1 runs on solarias without Linux kernel Mutex_	Oct 25 13:37
Mutex_	but it ok to call Win 7 "vista 7" so you can try to attach some perceived negative conotation from Vista.	Oct 25 13:37
Mutex_	we all know why you do it, but most find it kinda purile.	Oct 25 13:38
oiaohm	Mutex_: Ms did the link first.	Oct 25 13:38
DaemonFC	2000 = NT 5, XP = 5.1, 2003/XP x64 = 5.2, Vista/Server 2008 = 6.0, Windows 7/Server 2008 R2 = 6.1	Oct 25 13:38
oiaohm	Vista 7 is just nicer than Vista #2 Mutex_	Oct 25 13:38
Mutex_	ok, the "he did it first " argument.. L(OL	Oct 25 13:38
DaemonFC	Windows Fundamentals for Legacy PCs was also NT 5.1 oddly enough, even though it was out in 2005 (after NT 5.2 was out), and used the WIM setup format from Vista	Oct 25 13:39
oiaohm	Note NT 4.0 before 2000 set kernel matching release number Mutex_	Oct 25 13:39
DaemonFC	I have a copy of that	Oct 25 13:39
Mutex_	oiaohm, whats you're point again ?	Oct 25 13:40
cubezzz	btw, what does Sun call the kernel in Solaris?	Oct 25 13:40
DaemonFC	oiaohm, NT 4 was a ain in the ass, not even worth using	Oct 25 13:40
oiaohm	You cannot set one rule then decide to change it latter and not expect people to pick on you for it Mutex_	Oct 25 13:40
DaemonFC	I didn't go NT until Windows 2000	Oct 25 13:40
DaemonFC	*pain	Oct 25 13:40
Mutex_	oiaohm, whats you're point again ?	Oct 25 13:40
oiaohm	Ms has 3 major release tags.	Oct 25 13:41
oiaohm	Version of Kernel.	Oct 25 13:41
oiaohm	year of release	Oct 25 13:41
oiaohm	and some made up name.	Oct 25 13:41
DaemonFC	NT 4 had no support for hardware accelerated DirectX, Plug & Play was off by default, no USB support at all, it's own driver model, and no compatibility shims if a Windows 9x app wouldn't work	Oct 25 13:41
DaemonFC	NT 4 was totally unfit for home use, Windows 2000 changed that	Oct 25 13:41
oiaohm	Now MS wants to add a forth with Windows 7 Mutex_	Oct 25 13:41
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")		Oct 25 13:41
Mutex_	it's clear you call it vista 7 so you can try to attach some negative conotation with Vista, thats why you do it, so why not just admit it and be done with it ??	Oct 25 13:42
Mutex_	be honest.. for once	Oct 25 13:42
oiaohm	Mutex_: do I normally use vista 7 in here.	Oct 25 13:42
oiaohm	I normally use windows 7.	Oct 25 13:42
Mutex_	um,,, ALOT do..	Oct 25 13:42
oiaohm	But vista 7 is shorter.	Oct 25 13:42
Mutex_	vista 7 is shorter than Win7 Hmmm.	Oct 25 13:43
oiaohm	And Ms called it vista #2 in there adveristing.	Oct 25 13:43
Mutex_	it's funny old world :)	Oct 25 13:43
Mutex_	oh, again with the "he did it first" argument LOL	Oct 25 13:43
DaemonFC	I got a craving for biscuits and gravy, crispy bacon on the side, and a black coffee	Oct 25 13:43
oiaohm	Win 7 could be a confusing problem in future as well.	Oct 25 13:43
Mutex_	C'mon be honest with yourself, and us.. we know why you do it,,, just admit it	Oct 25 13:43
oiaohm	Particually if MS does release a 7.0 kernel Mutex_	Oct 25 13:44
DaemonFC	oiaohm, You mean when they do call something NT 7.0?	Oct 25 13:44
DaemonFC	yeah	Oct 25 13:44
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oiaohm	Its part future protection of documents as well Mutex_	Oct 25 13:44
Mutex_	sure it is..	Oct 25 13:44
DaemonFC	oiaohm, They said Windows 8 would come in about 3 more years	Oct 25 13:44
Mutex_	any more excuses ???	Oct 25 13:44
DaemonFC	I say they'll call it NT 6.2	Oct 25 13:44
cubezzz	what does MIcrosoft call it internally?	Oct 25 13:45
cubezzz	just wondering	Oct 25 13:45
oiaohm	NT 6.1 cubezzz	Oct 25 13:45
oiaohm	Or the mountain code name.	Oct 25 13:45
Eruaran	greetings to all	Oct 25 13:45
DaemonFC	they tried a long 5 year cycle with all their addon teams latching onto the OS, that turned into Vista	Oct 25 13:46
DaemonFC	I don't think we'll see them do that again	Oct 25 13:46
oiaohm	Mutex_: How long do schestowitz documents go back. Long enough that it could run into the issue in future. schestowitz cannot call it NT 6.1 workstation because most user would not link that up as Windows 7.	Oct 25 13:47
Mutex_	so what, if they are truthfull and accurate it does not matter, if they are untrue and inaccurate then you have a problem.	Oct 25 13:48
oiaohm	If you have duplicate indexing you also have problems Mutex_	Oct 25 13:48
Mutex_	so you call it "Vista 7 " because that is more clear to everyone than calling it Win 7. Like the REST OF THE WORLD DOES>	Oct 25 13:49
Mutex_	nice logic... you program much do you :)	Oct 25 13:49
oiaohm	So they deal with the furture indexing problems.	Oct 25 13:49
oiaohm	Or is MS going to stay with NT 6.x for ever.	Oct 25 13:50
oiaohm	Or is the NT line dead?	Oct 25 13:50
Mutex_	by confusing the issue now, you expect to make it clear in the future, again we all know why you call it Vista 7 to connect it to Vista, you do it to connect Win 7 with the initial problems with Vista and yet you cant bring yourselves to admit the truth about why you use the term.. when it's clear for all to see.	Oct 25 13:50
oiaohm	is not NT 6.0 not connected to NT 6.1 ?	Oct 25 13:51
Mutex_	comeing up with some clap trap about future protection is well,, what do you think it is ?	Oct 25 13:51
Eruaran	Just like the Apple ad... Windows 7 is out and you won't have any of the problems you had with the previous version of Windows... "trust me".	Oct 25 13:52
oiaohm	You are aware that XP 64 bit is .1 larger than XP Mutex_	Oct 25 13:53
Mutex_	what ?	Oct 25 13:53
oiaohm	Windows 7 is just .1 larger than Vista.	Oct 25 13:54
oiaohm	XP is 5.1 XP 64 bit is 5.2 Mutex_	Oct 25 13:54
DavidGerard	Windows $NEXT_VERSION will floor all comers	Oct 25 13:54
Mutex_	sorry oiaohm, if I were you I would give up while your behind, you're a touch out of your depth here IMO.	Oct 25 13:54
DavidGerard	I am so excited about $NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm.	Oct 25 13:55
fewa	by definition	Oct 25 13:55
oiaohm	Mutex_: there are a lot of reason why its valid to call Windows 7 Vista 7.	Oct 25 13:55
DavidGerard	Forget about security problems, those are all fixed in $NEXT_VERSION.	Oct 25 13:55
fewa	it will have $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM	Oct 25 13:55
DavidGerard	And they’re finally ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF.	Oct 25 13:55
Mutex_	like what, apart from trying to tie it to Vista's initial problems.	Oct 25 13:55
DavidGerard	Also, there’ll be $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It’ll be awesome!	Oct 25 13:56
DavidGerard	... I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $NEXT_NEXT_VERSION.	Oct 25 13:56
zer0c00l	DavidGerard: lol	Oct 25 13:56
oiaohm	Also thinking that Vista and Windows 7 suffer from most of the same secruit flaws when they happen as well Mutex_	Oct 25 13:56
Mutex_	again, we all know why you call it Vista 7 just admit it, please, and we can all forget about it.. but this "denial" is just a joke.	Oct 25 13:56
DavidGerard	for your amusement: here's a version put through google translate and back by a web spammer: http://windows.myloger.com/2009/04/19/windows-next_version-miss-elaneous-musings/	Oct 25 13:56
Mutex_	be honest,, it wont hurt.	Oct 25 13:56
DavidGerard	translating two ways is how spammers generate generic text these days	Oct 25 13:56
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DavidGerard	less likely to immediately get reported as spam than markov chain output	Oct 25 13:57
oiaohm	Basically patched Vista and Windows 7 are basically the same internally other than version number being .1 one different Mutex_	Oct 25 13:57
cubezzz	I'm my own spam filter	Oct 25 13:57
cubezzz	I'm fast :)	Oct 25 13:57
cubezzz	mutt ftw	Oct 25 13:57
oiaohm	there is massive ammounts in common between the two OS's Mutex_.	Oct 25 13:58
Mutex_	and you know that HOW oiaohm ??? you dont,, you like to call it Vista 7 because it suits your brand of hatred for it... and you want to attach it to Vista.... just admit it.... FFS	Oct 25 13:58
oiaohm	Number 1 backups to server that merges files between machines Mutex_	Oct 25 13:58
Mutex_	and whats "in common" between Linux and Linux ???	Oct 25 13:58
oiaohm	So all that is left is the differences between files.	Oct 25 13:59
fewa	DavidGerard, Vista should be $CURRENT_VERSION	Oct 25 13:59
Mutex_	still cant admit it can you,,,, just cant form the words...	Oct 25 13:59
oiaohm	Between Linux versions the binaries normally don't merge. Mutex_	Oct 25 13:59
*cubezzz notes no one is saying GNU/Linux :)		Oct 25 13:59
oiaohm	Different compliers and built versions. No merge happens Mutex_	Oct 25 13:59
Eruaran	Not all distributions are purely GNU	Oct 25 14:00
oiaohm	So yes you sell large numbers of differences Mutex_	Oct 25 14:00
oiaohm	sell/see	Oct 25 14:00
fewa	God I want one of those lard sanwiches	Oct 25 14:00
Mutex_	ioaom which brings us all the way back to my origial IQ type question,	Oct 25 14:00
DavidGerard	windows 7! new from the tyres down! http://notnews.today.com/2008/10/14/next-windows-to-be-called-windows/windows-7/	Oct 25 14:00
cubezzz	I guess it's easier to just say the kernel name	Oct 25 14:00
Mutex_	Vista is to Win 7 as Linux is to ?????	Oct 25 14:00
oiaohm	Can you not type my handle Mutex_?	Oct 25 14:00
fewa	Windows lard	Oct 25 14:00
DavidGerard	fewa: careful you don't get a Windows 98 burger then	Oct 25 14:01
oiaohm	I have answer that completely Mutex_	Oct 25 14:01
cubezzz	is that the burger with 7 beef patties? :)	Oct 25 14:01
DavidGerard	http://supersizedmeals.com/food/article.php/20060125050438458	Oct 25 14:01
DavidGerard	(that's actually a 100-patty burger, but you'll lose count as well as your stomach before you get there)	Oct 25 14:02
oiaohm	MS people insult Linux cannot do X without including versions. When talking about Linux kernels you talk about Linux 2.4 or 2.6 depending on what you are doing Mutex_	Oct 25 14:02
cubezzz	hahaha, gross	Oct 25 14:02
Mutex_	so,	Oct 25 14:02
fewa	ughhhh DavidGerard , thats gross	Oct 25 14:02
oiaohm	Then when you are talking about if distributions can do something you call it that.	Oct 25 14:02
oiaohm	You are aware LSB distrobution id system returns what distribution and distributions version you are using. Mutex_	Oct 25 14:03
oiaohm	Independant to Linux kernel Mutex_	Oct 25 14:03
Mutex_	oiaohm, just admit why you really use the term Vista 7 and be done with it.. .we all know why,, but would like to hear it from YOU...	Oct 25 14:03
oiaohm	Particular important that lot of Linux distribitons also can use solarias or freebsd as kernel.	Oct 25 14:03
Mutex_	trying to defend the indefensible is sad. to say the least	Oct 25 14:03
fewa	nasty cheese	Oct 25 14:04
fewa	I cant eat one slice of that type of non-cheese	Oct 25 14:04
cubezzz	and they actually ate it all too	Oct 25 14:04
oiaohm	Mutex_: No I don't use Vista 7. I just understand the logic behind those using the term.	Oct 25 14:04
Mutex_	we understand the logic too,,	Oct 25 14:05
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Mutex_	and know why, but think it sad you cant admit it...	Oct 25 14:05
zer0c00l	Mutex_: try hard	Oct 25 14:05
zer0c00l	lol	Oct 25 14:05
oiaohm	The problem I don't see there call as wrong. After doing a binary compare Mutex_.	Oct 25 14:05
oiaohm	Because both OS are going to suffer from identical problems.	Oct 25 14:06
Mutex_	sure, you're a programming guru, who can analyse the very function of an operating system by comparing binaries	Oct 25 14:06
Mutex_	wow, you must be amazing !!!!	Oct 25 14:06
oiaohm	If they are the same they are the same.	Oct 25 14:06
oiaohm	You don't need to be a programming guru to work that out.	Oct 25 14:06
oiaohm	two idencical parts in two different OS's provide the same flaw area that simple.	Oct 25 14:07
Mutex_	but they are not the same, and im sure even you can work that out.... geezzz, again why cant you just admit that you call it Vista7 because you hope to attach the negative release of Vista with Win7... thats the REAL reason right,,,, so just admit it....	Oct 25 14:07
oiaohm	Have you done the compare of core parts Mutex_	Oct 25 14:08
Mutex_	do you actually have Win 7 and Vista installed on any of your machines oiaohm, or are you just making this up.	Oct 25 14:08
Mutex_	I dont need to do anything to know Win 7 is NOT Vista... simple as that,, it's called WIN 7 not freaking Vista 7... and you know it, and you use Vista7 for your own purile ends.... fair enough.. . all that needs to be said on the matter. IMO	Oct 25 14:09
oiaohm	None of my personal. Just a work network got one connected to a network with automatic client backups. That only keep 1 copy of files accross all the machines it backing up including core files.	Oct 25 14:10
wallc	Mutex, maybe they should both just be called "Mojave"? :)	Oct 25 14:10
oiaohm	It clearly showed very few files different Mutex_	Oct 25 14:10
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fewa	Mutex_, its NT 6	Oct 25 14:10
fewa	its the same damn thing	Oct 25 14:10
Mutex_	ok and based on that you make all sorts of amazing assumptions,,, I use Win 7 and vista and they are NOT the same, NO WAY KNOWS. and you know it,, and most people here know it...	Oct 25 14:11
fewa	maybe you could go work on making it better, instead of just pretending	Oct 25 14:11
Mutex_	if you dont know it, ,you dont know squat about operating systems	Oct 25 14:11
oiaohm	No its not a assumption Mutex_	Oct 25 14:11
fewa	Mojave: getting people to pay money for something that is essentially the same	Oct 25 14:11
oiaohm	XP to Vista large numbers of files are different Mutex_	Oct 25 14:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Massive thank you to everyone who has come to #oggcamp It's really humbling to see all the effort people go through for it.		Oct 25 14:12
oiaohm	Less files different the more secuirty flaws they will have in common Mutex_	Oct 25 14:12
oiaohm	Same applies to Linux distributions releation ships.	Oct 25 14:12
Mutex_	everyone who uses win 7 and have used vista all say it's different, and you saying they are not is kinda making you look a touch silly...	Oct 25 14:13
oiaohm	You can make ubuntus act complete different too by just changing the services loaded Mutex_	Oct 25 14:13
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oiaohm	Not like you really have to change anything major to make it feel different to users Mutex_	Oct 25 14:14
Mutex_	oh my,,, what a weak argument :) but expected,, no problem	Oct 25 14:14
oiaohm	At core level is Kubuntu and Ubuntu different Mutex_	Oct 25 14:15
fewa	KDE vs GNOME	Oct 25 14:15
oiaohm	Answer no.	Oct 25 14:15
Mutex_	so what ??	Oct 25 14:15
oiaohm	yet they fell 100 percent different to use Mutex_	Oct 25 14:15
oiaohm	Windows 7 lot of alterations are the same kind of windows dressing.	Oct 25 14:16
Mutex_	oh my you can configure an OS so it's not different to any other OS.	Oct 25 14:16
Mutex_	so I can say Winodws XP is just like Linux then right because I can configure both to look different..	Oct 25 14:16
Mutex_	sorry, ,im not buying it..	Oct 25 14:16
oiaohm	No Mutex_	Oct 25 14:16
Mutex_	thats what you said...	Oct 25 14:17
oiaohm	Windows XP and Linux have two different cores.	Oct 25 14:17
oiaohm	Kubuntu and Ubuntu use the same core.	Oct 25 14:17
oiaohm	Vista and windows 7 both basically use the same core.	Oct 25 14:17
Mutex_	and yet they are two separate products,	Oct 25 14:17
ThistleWeb	I see someone woke up with the wrong undies on this morning	Oct 25 14:17
Mutex_	so why call Win 7 ... Vista 7	Oct 25 14:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Should raffle prizes be pre-selected or should winners get to choose their own prize from what's left? #oggcamp		Oct 25 14:18
oiaohm	Yet people call kubuntu and ubuntu both ubuntu Mutex_	Oct 25 14:18
Mutex_	you dont call Kubuntu,,, ubuntu do you ??	Oct 25 14:18
oiaohm	Because the ubuntu dvd contains kubuntu Mutex_	Oct 25 14:18
Mutex_	so if someone else is missinformed and WRONG it's ok for you to be as well ?	Oct 25 14:18
Mutex_	thats your justification ?	Oct 25 14:18
ThistleWeb	time and a half on sundays Mutex?	Oct 25 14:19
Mutex_	again, oiaohm, mabey you are not the right person for this debate.	Oct 25 14:19
oiaohm	Also Kubuntu and Ubuntu use the same repo for patches.	Oct 25 14:19
oiaohm	To patch the same files.	Oct 25 14:19
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oiaohm	So have the same secuirty flaws.	Oct 25 14:19
oiaohm	So when tracking security issues they are the same Mutex_	Oct 25 14:19
Mutex_	again, oiaohm, what your saying supports MY case	Oct 25 14:19
oiaohm	Vista and Windows 7 have the same thing.	Oct 25 14:20
oiaohm	Same security flaws.	Oct 25 14:20
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oiaohm	So why not call them something to same to remind you they are Mutex_	Oct 25 14:20
wallc	I remember when Vista (didn't they call it Longhorn in development?) was in process. MS said it was all going to be different, and it took them, what, five years to finish Vista? But Mojave/7 just sort of jumped out the door fully grown...hmmmm	Oct 25 14:21
Mutex_	so we can call every version of Linux Ubuntu ??? is that ok with you /	Oct 25 14:21
Mutex_	>??	Oct 25 14:21
Mutex_	or every version of Linux SUSE ??	Oct 25 14:21
oiaohm	If they are ubuntu based yes Mutex_ and I am fine with that.	Oct 25 14:21
Mutex_	you fine with that ??	Oct 25 14:21
ThistleWeb	wallc: it's in any business'es interests to tell you whatver they think they have to, to get you to open your wallet for little new benefit	Oct 25 14:21
Mutex_	whenever we refer to linux we should say SUSE instead	Oct 25 14:22
oiaohm	If they are SUSE based I would be fine as well Mutex_	Oct 25 14:22
Mutex_	ok, im fine with that.	Oct 25 14:22
ThistleWeb	they only care that you buy the new version	Oct 25 14:22
oiaohm	No because not all are SUSE base Mutex_	Oct 25 14:22
ThistleWeb	not how you feel about it, or if it is value for money for you	Oct 25 14:22
Mutex_	they are all Linux kernal based, so they are the same thing right ?>?	Oct 25 14:22
oiaohm	If talking about a set SUSE based no problems Mutex_	Oct 25 14:22
Mutex_	thats your argument.	Oct 25 14:22
oiaohm	No it is not Mutex_	Oct 25 14:23
ThistleWeb	as long as they convince you enough not to return it as a fraud it's all good	Oct 25 14:23
oiaohm	Most of the services and kernel are identical Mutex_	Oct 25 14:23
Mutex_	well why did you say it then ??	Oct 25 14:23
oiaohm	In windows 7	Oct 25 14:23
willimm	Acualy, there are a few major groups of Linux distros. There are the Debian based ones, of which Ubuntu and it's deravitaves are based on, and RPM based distros, which include Fedora and it's deratives, and OpenSUSE, Slackware and Slackware based, and Sourced baced.	Oct 25 14:23
oiaohm	and vista	Oct 25 14:23
Mutex_	if you can have different versions of Linux with the same core linux you can have different versions of windows, with different kernels in it.... as they do..	Oct 25 14:23
oiaohm	Very much like the difference between kubuntu and ubuntu that do get called the same for secuirty tracking Mutex_	Oct 25 14:23
Mutex_	you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole here. give up while you're behind.	Oct 25 14:24
oiaohm	Mutex_: you are wanting to skip the fact they are highly the same.	Oct 25 14:24
oiaohm	Just because something has a Linux kernel does not mean anything above that is releated.	Oct 25 14:24
Mutex_	you are wanting to ignore the fact that SUSE is Linux and Ubuntu is Linux, and Debian is Linux,, but they are all different right or wrong...	Oct 25 14:25
oiaohm	Like android and ubuntu nothing at all in common in the userspace. yet both can have the same version kernel number.	Oct 25 14:25
Mutex_	where do you stand on this... make yourself clear.	Oct 25 14:25
schestowitz	Bulgaria Cabinet Short of Cash to Pay for Microsoft Deal http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=109045	Oct 25 14:25
oiaohm	Kernel alone common does not cause huge common ality of secuirty bugs. Mutex_	Oct 25 14:26
Mutex_	sorry, oiaohm, I tire of this circular argument, you have no point to get across..	Oct 25 14:26
oiaohm	It the level of commonality is far higher than just linux kernel that is shared between distributions.	Oct 25 14:26
oiaohm	that vista and windows 7 has.	Oct 25 14:26
oiaohm	If you wanted the same as linux kernel in Linux distributions have in commonality you could say everything from NT 3.0 to NT 6.1 are the same Mutex_	Oct 25 14:27
oiaohm	Yes they are that wildly different at the Linux kernel level. Due to different kernel options.	Oct 25 14:28
wallc	oiaohm, did mutex ever explain why he thinks Vista and Seven are different?	Oct 25 14:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] What happens on #oggcamp, stays on #oggcamp!		Oct 25 14:34
oiaohm	No he did not wallc	Oct 25 14:34
Mutex_	HAAH,, how's your r	Oct 25 14:34
wallc	That's what I thought.	Oct 25 14:34
Mutex_	"reading and comprehension"..	Oct 25 14:34
wallc	How's yours?	Oct 25 14:35
Mutex_	so by your logic, Ubuntu and SUSE are the same, so we should call Linux "SUSE" then...	Oct 25 14:35
oiaohm	No I did not say that. Mutex_	Oct 25 14:35
Mutex_	better than most here by the looks :)	Oct 25 14:35
Mutex_	yes, you did...	Oct 25 14:35
oiaohm	Ubuntu and SUSE use two different kernels.	Oct 25 14:35
Mutex_	so how your SUSE going on your machine ???	Oct 25 14:35
Mutex_	or should it be SUSE 2	Oct 25 14:35
oiaohm	So you say that ever version from windows 3.0 to windows 7.0 are the same Mutex_	Oct 25 14:36
Mutex_	no i dont, I say they are all different... keep digging,, (but DIG UP)	Oct 25 14:36
oiaohm	Because that is what you are trying to claim Mutex_	Oct 25 14:36
oiaohm	The difference between SUSE and Ubuntu is that huge.	Oct 25 14:36
Mutex_	no im saying they are different and you should not call them the same.	Oct 25 14:36
oiaohm	Windows 7 and Vista are about the difference between ubuntu and kubuntu Mutex_	Oct 25 14:37
Mutex_	you try to twist it around, but you lost this argument hours ago, all your doing now is entrenching your losing position... but thats your right, you are free to do that.	Oct 25 14:37
oiaohm	Same basic kernel few tweeks.	Oct 25 14:37
oiaohm	Same basic services	Oct 25 14:37
oiaohm	Just few more or a few less running.	Oct 25 14:37
Mutex_	ok, and that does not apply to the Linux world oiaohm ??	Oct 25 14:37
oiaohm	Different graphical.	Oct 25 14:37
Mutex_	youre now arguing MY case,,, LOL,, thanks for that.	Oct 25 14:38
oiaohm	Particular zones of the Linux world it applies.	Oct 25 14:38
oiaohm	and its critical to know for secuirty reasons.	Oct 25 14:38
oiaohm	Ie ubuntu gets a flaw suspect kubuntu machines and releation of having it.	Oct 25 14:38
oiaohm	You might as well call the ubuntu.	Oct 25 14:38
oiaohm	the/them	Oct 25 14:39
Mutex_	give it up,,, you lost, but thats ok,, just dont make it worse.	Oct 25 14:39
oiaohm	Vista and Windows 7 are basically blood releations.	Oct 25 14:39
oiaohm	Very little difference between them.	Oct 25 14:39
oiaohm	Yet look different.	Oct 25 14:39
oiaohm	XP would be a distance cousin.	Oct 25 14:40
wallc	I think Mutex just admitted that the difference between Vista and 7 is merely graphical...	Oct 25 14:40
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Mutex_	I did no such thing, clearing it far more different than that,	Oct 25 14:41
Mutex_	but nice try...	Oct 25 14:41
oiaohm	List the differences then Mutex_	Oct 25 14:41
ThistleWeb	Mutex_: is here paid to argue	Oct 25 14:42
ThistleWeb	why bother arguing with him?	Oct 25 14:42
wallc	Mutex,, oiaohm said the difference between Kubuntu and Ubuntu was merely graphical, and you said he just argued your case....hmmm	Oct 25 14:42
Mutex_	why bother, we all know it's differrent,, even im sure you, but again, just admit you call it Vista 7 to attach some percieved negative conotation with Vista...	Oct 25 14:42
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Mutex_	the guard dogs are forming a pack.. LOL	Oct 25 14:43
oiaohm	DO we all know that Mutex_	Oct 25 14:43
oiaohm	From a secuirty point of view they are not different Mutex_	Oct 25 14:43
oiaohm	At least not enough to be treated as independant.	Oct 25 14:43
Mutex_	listening to what you said last night about your "security" experience, coming from you that does not mean anything..	Oct 25 14:43
wallc	Lol! Me? A guard dog?	Oct 25 14:44
oiaohm	Of course attack me. Not like I would say everything I do.	Oct 25 14:45
Mutex_	mabey a guard pup...	Oct 25 14:45
Mutex_	who just ate a bird :)	Oct 25 14:45
oiaohm	Basically you cannot document the differences so you have to attack me Mutex_	Oct 25 14:46
Mutex_	you may not "say everything you do" but what you DID say was enough :)	Oct 25 14:46
Mutex_	Ive never seen a purple duck either, does not mean they dont exist..	Oct 25 14:46
Mutex_	you cant prove a negative,, you should know that from debating 101	Oct 25 14:47
oiaohm	So you cannot prove that Vista and Windows 7 are truely different Mutex_	Oct 25 14:47
Mutex_	ofcourse I can,, easily,, everyone can.. you cant ?? wow,, so sad	Oct 25 14:48
oiaohm	Other than surface level.	Oct 25 14:48
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oiaohm	Do vista and Windows 7 use the same drivers yes the do. Do they use the same services with same version numbers that are binary identical yes they do. Mutex_	Oct 25 14:49
oiaohm	Most of Windows 7 is cleaning up the stuff that was annoying the hell out of Users.	Oct 25 14:49
Mutex_	actually now you mention it, Win 7 and Vista use different drivers, kind of screws up your argument then, dosnt it.. LOL	Oct 25 14:49
*schestowitz gets off the phone, finally		Oct 25 14:50
wallc	Thistleweb, I'm sorry I didn't answer you earlier (I was busy reading and comprehending), but I think it's important to answer these types of arguments.	Oct 25 14:50
oiaohm	Only in smaller areas Mutex_	Oct 25 14:50
Mutex_	small areas like THE VIDEO DRIVER LOL	Oct 25 14:50
wallc	people like me can learn from them.	Oct 25 14:50
Mutex_	so you admit they are different now... good now where getting somewhere	Oct 25 14:50
ThistleWeb	wallc: yeah, one thing about a channel like this posting it's logs, is that Mutex_ and others can show their bosses they've been working	Oct 25 14:50
oiaohm	Is video driver network exposed or external device exposed.	Oct 25 14:50
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oiaohm	Also what is the main difference in the video driver Mutex_	Oct 25 14:51
wallc	yes, I've wondered if that was why, otherwise such persistance makes no sense.	Oct 25 14:51
oiaohm	Little wrapper connecting direct X 11	Oct 25 14:51
Mutex_	I said they were different, try to spin that how you like, they are different and therefore Win 7 and Vista are different, you cant work that out oiaohm ???	Oct 25 14:51
Mutex_	Really ?? you cant ???	Oct 25 14:51
Mutex_	I would like to know.. ?	Oct 25 14:52
oiaohm	Yet a vista dx 10 driver works.	Oct 25 14:52
ThistleWeb	he's here to argue, the more it continues, the happier he is	Oct 25 14:52
oiaohm	Stacks are not radically different Mutex_	Oct 25 14:52
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ThistleWeb	after lying to schestowitz that he'd not be an asshat too	Oct 25 14:52
Mutex_	I said I tired of this circular argument, (that I won ages ago), but oiaohm could not drop it, and continued to dig himself deeper into his hole.	Oct 25 14:53
oiaohm	Ie Vista driver can be on Windows 7 for video A window 7 driver cannot been on vista mostly because DX11 is missing Mutex_	Oct 25 14:53
wallc	oiaohm obviously has a great deal of patience - I didn't know that mutex had made that promise.	Oct 25 14:53
Mutex_	No wrong, a Vista driver on Win 7 will crash it,, I know,,	Oct 25 14:53
Mutex_	but the Win 7 driver works perfectly.	Oct 25 14:54
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Mutex_	two different drivers for 2 differnt Os's,, Ipso Fatso,,, I win.. :) OEF.	Oct 25 14:54
oiaohm	You mean blue screen of death ATI driver Mutex_?	Oct 25 14:54
schestowitz	[14:40] <wallc> I think Mutex just admitted that the difference between Vista and 7 is merely graphical...	Oct 25 14:54
schestowitz	Yes, different wallpapers and splashscreens	Oct 25 14:54
wallc	mutex, what, exactly have you "won"??	Oct 25 14:55
Mutex_	acutally No roy I did not admit that, I said they were different,, that means they are not the same...	Oct 25 14:55
oiaohm	Yes memory protection enabled in windows 7 made it kick toe. Same as what was in server version.	Oct 25 14:55
Mutex_	not the same,,, generally means they are different..	Oct 25 14:55
oiaohm	You can enable same memory protection in Vista Mutex_ just messy.	Oct 25 14:55
Mutex_	but thanks for weighing on in Roy :)	Oct 25 14:56
schestowitz	Thanks form trolling. We needed more species here.	Oct 25 14:56
Mutex_	you sure do :) and your welcome,, ,anytime..	Oct 25 14:57
wallc	Roy, did you have a lot of problems with the table graphics in the last Comes exhibit?	Oct 25 14:57
wallc	You did a good job with it.	Oct 25 14:57
oiaohm	I guess you did not suspect that the driver that crassed Windows 7 was defective even for vista just has not been pushed the right way yet.	Oct 25 14:58
Mutex_	no i did not suspect that,, because thats was not the case.. but thanks for asking..	Oct 25 14:58
oiaohm	NVIDIA not liking 6.1 version number and going bad path leading to OS death.	Oct 25 14:59
oiaohm	There were quite a few little glitches shown up by the windows 7.	Oct 25 15:00
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fewa	you cant have a successful OS without major hardware	Oct 25 15:07
fewa	esp when it is a regression	Oct 25 15:07
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TheMadHatter	Good morning!	Oct 25 15:29
TheMadHatter	Roy?	Oct 25 15:30
TheMadHatter	OK, be back later.	Oct 25 15:33
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schestowitz	Hey	Oct 25 15:38
schestowitz	http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/news/digital/e3i18f9fdff77fbe36078538eaf68dfd068	Oct 25 15:38
schestowitz	He's one among seevral	Oct 25 15:46
schestowitz	Shades of the Yahoo! coup	Oct 25 15:46
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schestowitz	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522777	Oct 25 15:57
schestowitz	http://gov2summit.blip.tv/file/2605719/	Oct 25 15:58
schestowitz	Gov 2.0 Summit 09: John Markoff, "Creating an Effective Platform" http://blip.tv/file/2592172	Oct 25 16:00
fewa	Meeting of the bullshitters	Oct 25 16:01
schestowitz	Which one?	Oct 25 16:02
schestowitz	Cerf is OK	Oct 25 16:02
schestowitz	I don't like Markoff. He boosts the Microsoft myths in NYT	Oct 25 16:02
fewa	Seriously that guy comes from the same NY Times that releases copyright wringer articles	Oct 25 16:03
fewa	that just disparage wikipedia	Oct 25 16:03
fewa	unfairly	Oct 25 16:03
fewa	virt cerf is ok	Oct 25 16:03
schestowitz	https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2009-October/000126.html	Oct 25 16:03
fewa	but he highly hypes his past role and importance	Oct 25 16:03
schestowitz	Yes	Oct 25 16:03
schestowitz	I just had a phone cov about it	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	*conv	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	An argument over Wikipedia	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	It's being slimed to death	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	By newspapers and teachers	Oct 25 16:04
fewa	they hate it cause its competition	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	And I end up saying that there is a conflict of interests and that newspapers do have an agenda (i.e. they lie)	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	Try telling this to a society's 'cube'	Oct 25 16:04
schestowitz	[16:03] <fewa> but he highly hypes his past role and importance	Oct 25 16:05
fewa	most of the "criticisms" about wikipedia are even woorse in the "news"	Oct 25 16:05
schestowitz	Could you elaborate?	Oct 25 16:05
schestowitz	I know he wanted to be a film star	Oct 25 16:05
fewa	hmm	Oct 25 16:05
schestowitz	Wales is also of this kind	Oct 25 16:05
schestowitz	He takes too much credit for Wikipedia	Oct 25 16:05
fewa	Wales distorts the history	Oct 25 16:05
schestowitz	So Sagner (was it him?) is pissed off, still	Oct 25 16:05
fewa	funny thing, however, is that wikis dont forget	Oct 25 16:05
fewa	not just sanger	Oct 25 16:06
fewa	also the guy that created the idea	Oct 25 16:06
fewa	its on meatballwiki	Oct 25 16:06
schestowitz	Wales did a Huffington piece responding to the FUD last month	Oct 25 16:06
fewa	the real history	Oct 25 16:06
schestowitz	I see..	Oct 25 16:06
schestowitz	hAlstory	Oct 25 16:06
fewa	not even Sanger	Oct 25 16:07
fewa	maybe this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Cunningham	Oct 25 16:09
schestowitz	http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2009/10/22/law-blog-legal-concept-of-the-day-defamation/	Oct 25 16:11
schestowitz	Yes, I know	Oct 25 16:11
schestowitz	He was on FLOSS Weekly	Oct 25 16:11
schestowitz	And he spoke about his ideas	Oct 25 16:11
schestowitz	Not taking much credit for Wikipedia, though	Oct 25 16:11
schestowitz	I listened to him 1-2 weeks ago	Oct 25 16:11
fewa	still doesn't seem like the guy i landed on last time i dug through this	Oct 25 16:12
schestowitz	http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/10/why-google-and-bings-twitter-a.html	Oct 25 16:14
fewa	here we go: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BenKovitz	Oct 25 16:14
schestowitz	fewa: in short, shoulders and giants :-)	Oct 25 16:14
schestowitz	Basically it goes like this:	Oct 25 16:14
schestowitz	Wikipedia did not popularise Wikis	Oct 25 16:14
schestowitz	It wasn't even a wiki originally	Oct 25 16:14
fewa	its kinda irrelevent	Oct 25 16:14
schestowitz	They just thought a better editing platform	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	It grew fast	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	And it was started by several people	Oct 25 16:15
fewa	but debunding jimbo's fantasy is important	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	Wales was doing other Web stuff prior to it	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	Some dubious stuff	Oct 25 16:15
fewa	like porn sites	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	fewa: he profits from this fantasy	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	Well-paid public talks and all	Oct 25 16:15
fewa	and making money of the forex market	Oct 25 16:15
schestowitz	fewa: yes, pr0n too	Oct 25 16:15
fewa	hes such a bullshitter	Oct 25 16:16
schestowitz	He hates it when people bring it up	Oct 25 16:16
fewa	if you see a vid of him on the street or something	Oct 25 16:16
schestowitz	TheStreet?	Oct 25 16:16
schestowitz	Or...	Oct 25 16:16
fewa	he is like: "do you know who i am?" "do you know what wikipedia is?...well I started it"	Oct 25 16:16
fewa	idk, i saw some vid from like india or something	Oct 25 16:16
schestowitz	Heh.	Oct 25 16:16
schestowitz	Well, he maybe started some	Oct 25 16:16
schestowitz	But hundreds of thousands of people did the work	Oct 25 16:17
fewa	he really likes his identity	Oct 25 16:17
fewa	its not just economics	Oct 25 16:17
schestowitz	But many people feel ownership of the Wiki	Oct 25 16:17
schestowitz	Creative Commons	Oct 25 16:17
fewa	http://nathanr.ca/internet/wikipedia/how-wikipedia-got-jimmy-wales-laid/	Oct 25 16:17
schestowitz	Walesopedia	Oct 25 16:17
schestowitz	The restaurant fiasco..	Oct 25 16:17
fewa	anyways, enough	Oct 25 16:17
schestowitz	I think he took out this news anchor with donation funds	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	But anyway...	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	I like Wales	Oct 25 16:18
fewa	I dont like attacking people	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	He also started Wikia	Oct 25 16:18
fewa	but I do like a little reality	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	Which become some weird directory :-S	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	*became	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	After failing as a search business	Oct 25 16:18
fewa	not just directory	Oct 25 16:18
schestowitz	Ouch @ http://nathanr.ca/internet/wikipedia/how-wikipedia-got-jimmy-wales-laid/	Oct 25 16:19
fewa	http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jul/31/wikipedia	Oct 25 16:19
schestowitz	http://legalblogwatch.typepad.com/legal_blog_watch/2009/10/bloomberg-takes-on-wexis-with-new-research-service.htmll	Oct 25 16:22
fewa	wikia shows importance of having your own domain	Oct 25 16:23
schestowitz	Oh, I see...	Oct 25 16:23
fewa	cause the way google works it is very hard to fork	Oct 25 16:24
fewa	as google will delist the fork	Oct 25 16:24
schestowitz	Cuil too is still around	Oct 25 16:24
schestowitz	Knol is dead	Oct 25 16:24
fewa	law	Oct 25 16:24
schestowitz	The Google "Wikipedia killah!"	Oct 25 16:24
fewa	those were dead before they launched	Oct 25 16:24
fewa	obviously	Oct 25 16:24
*schestowitz nods		Oct 25 16:25
schestowitz	http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10378653-62.html	Oct 25 16:25
schestowitz	I'm very happy w/ how v7 launch turned out	Oct 25 16:25
schestowitz	I have some good posts on it	Oct 25 16:25
schestowitz	http://piana.eu/sun	Oct 25 16:26
schestowitz	Turns out MS is lobbying on the oracle case	Oct 25 16:26
schestowitz	the fiends	Oct 25 16:26
DaemonFC	hmmm, this TV tuner card has a cable that snakes all over the case of my old PC	Oct 25 16:26
schestowitz	Williams & Connolly Sues Client for $2 Million http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/10/williams-connolly-sues-client-for-2-million-.html	Oct 25 16:26
DaemonFC	I can't even tell where it's going	Oct 25 16:27
fewa	there was tons of hype in yahoo answers'	Oct 25 16:27
fewa	which looked ligitimate	Oct 25 16:27
schestowitz	I see that some BN regulars cite BN here :-) -> http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/15/microsofts-pinkdanger-backup-problem-blamed-on-roz-ho/#more-3877	Oct 25 16:28
schestowitz	Yahoo Answers censored Linux and BSD	Oct 25 16:28
schestowitz	Sorts of	Oct 25 16:29
schestowitz	The mods did	Oct 25 16:29
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")		Oct 25 16:29
*willimm has quit ("Page closed")		Oct 25 16:29
fewa	it was like: wtf is this?	Oct 25 16:29
fewa	but there were mentions	Oct 25 16:29
schestowitz	http://howappealing.law.com/	Oct 25 16:29