Boycott Novell logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 17th, 2009

schestowitzSomeone tongue-in-cheekly thoughNov 17 00:00
_Hicham_schestowitz uses a lot of ActiveX scripts on his websiteNov 17 00:00
schestowitz /someone/somewhat/Nov 17 00:00
schestowitz_Hicham_: sheesh!Nov 17 00:00
_Hicham_to spread viruses on Windows MachinesNov 17 00:00
oiaohmI am just noticing a strange trend schestowitz.Nov 17 00:00
schestowitzAnd MAcs tooNov 17 00:00
schestowitzAnd I have morris there tooNov 17 00:00
_Hicham_the trend is monoishNov 17 00:00
_Hicham_everybody is using MonoNov 17 00:01
oiaohmWe need to keep our eye on.   It seams when ever some one else other than MS is getting major air time.  Some flaw or another appears to pull the air time away.Nov 17 00:01
_Hicham_that is the trendNov 17 00:01
schestowitzThe "I love you virus" ported to monoNov 17 00:01
_Hicham_schestowitz : Mono is trying to open linux doorsNov 17 00:01
schestowitzoiaohm: hehNov 17 00:01
schestowitzMaybe it's like swine fluNov 17 00:01
schestowitzCreate panixNov 17 00:01
schestowitzCreate panicNov 17 00:01
schestowitzThus controlNov 17 00:01
schestowitzThen...Nov 17 00:01
schestowitzSell TPMNov 17 00:01
schestowitzTell people they can't use the Web for X, Y, and XNov 17 00:02
schestowitz*XZNov 17 00:02
schestowitzImplement Web policeNov 17 00:02
oiaohmTPM has its place as long as I as end user control it.Nov 17 00:02
_Hicham_then go to BNNov 17 00:02
schestowitziPATRIOTNov 17 00:02
MinceR_Hicham_: google earth is horribly crapNov 17 00:02
schestowitzJust joking anywayNov 17 00:02
_Hicham_BN should become a commercial portalNov 17 00:02
schestowitzThough it's a nice hypothesis, innit?Nov 17 00:02
_Hicham_schestowitz can make a lot of money from BNNov 17 00:02
MinceRi stopped using it when it refused to login unless run as root and the uninstaller failed to startNov 17 00:02
schestowitzMinceR: google earth was good, but it could be deliveredNov 17 00:02
schestowitzSo Google did a caesarian section in the arseNov 17 00:03
MinceRthe content was goodNov 17 00:03
schestowitzAnd it looks accordinglyNov 17 00:03
_Hicham_schestowitz is saying bad wordsNov 17 00:03
_Hicham_that is not schestowitz we knowNov 17 00:03
_Hicham_this is bad for the channelNov 17 00:03
schestowitzIt's not rudeNov 17 00:03
MinceR_Hicham_: you are bad for the channel, not schestowitz :>Nov 17 00:03
_Hicham_it is very rudeNov 17 00:03
schestowitzI hardly said vulgar wordsNov 17 00:03
schestowitz"Arse"?Nov 17 00:04
_Hicham_u just didNov 17 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: I'm not a tedious bastard, I'm an, uh, anorakpunk. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/20727.html http://is.gd/4WEIINov 17 00:04
_Hicham_yesNov 17 00:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 00:04
schestowitzThat's not rudeNov 17 00:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 00:04
_Hicham_then I should say f*** and s*** words too ?Nov 17 00:04
_Hicham_what would the channel be like ?Nov 17 00:04
_Hicham_a toilet ?Nov 17 00:04
MinceRit would be more honestNov 17 00:04
schestowitzIT's an analogyNov 17 00:04
schestowitzGoogle had KeyHOLENov 17 00:04
schestowitzThat's the company nameNov 17 00:04
schestowitzThey couldn't ship it to LinuxNov 17 00:05
oiaohmHmm want did you have locked down MinceR since I have had google earth running on Linux as a normal user.Nov 17 00:05
schestowitzSo they tried the backHOLE and GoogleEarth for Linux ended up being s***eNov 17 00:05
_Hicham_i never installed it on linuxNov 17 00:05
MinceRoiaohm: nothingNov 17 00:05
_Hicham_schestowitz didNov 17 00:05
MinceRit was a plain [k]ubuntu boxNov 17 00:05
_Hicham_itNov 17 00:05
oiaohmApparmor MinceRNov 17 00:05
_Hicham_because schestowitz supports proprietary software as wellNov 17 00:06
MinceRit didn't have apparmor back then, afaikNov 17 00:06
_Hicham_AppArmor is evil, according to schestowitzNov 17 00:06
MinceRalso, apparently the loki(?) uninstaller constantly fails on my systemsNov 17 00:06
schestowitz_Hicham_ is offended by his anatomyNov 17 00:06
oiaohmcheck install feature of debain required with anything with loki.Nov 17 00:06
MinceRcheckinstall often fails as wellNov 17 00:06
schestowitz_Hicham_: our arse is part of biologyNov 17 00:07
schestowitz"Tail" is not a bad word, eitherNov 17 00:07
MinceRi guess the way to go will be install into chroot, compare with pristine chroot, make stow package, install with stowNov 17 00:07
schestowitzANd guess what?Nov 17 00:07
MinceRpenis!Nov 17 00:07
schestowitzYou probably ate a cow's arseNov 17 00:07
schestowitzAt some stageNov 17 00:07
schestowitzDepending how it was sliced for consumptionNov 17 00:07
MinceRthen again, in the case of google earth, it will probably be just a chroot or a virtual machine for meNov 17 00:07
MinceR(unless i can trick it into logging in when run as nonroot)Nov 17 00:08
oiaohmfakeroot-ng used in deb checkinstall for making packages MinceRNov 17 00:08
_Hicham_schestowitz : I don't, because I know what I buyNov 17 00:08
schestowitzI dread running GE after it had crashed kwin on meNov 17 00:08
oiaohmYou end up with a deb file uninstaller that works MinceRNov 17 00:08
MinceRoiaohm: i've used checkinstall a couple times and it has proven itself quite fragileNov 17 00:08
schestowitzMaybe it works better with kwin4, but I can't be arsed [ :-o !! ] to tryNov 17 00:08
_Hicham_fakeroot can be used on any distroNov 17 00:09
oiaohmcheckinstall combind with fakeroot-ng like debian package does it don't break MinceRNov 17 00:09
schestowitz_Hicham_: I bet a cow's arse is one of the easiet parts for a butcher to processNov 17 00:09
oiaohmNow checkinstall alown is fragile.Nov 17 00:09
schestowitzDo you watch your butcher?Nov 17 00:09
MinceRdoesn't it use fakeroot by default?Nov 17 00:09
schestowitzHe could do magic on youNov 17 00:10
MinceRor is fakeroot-ng that much better than plain fakeroot?Nov 17 00:10
schestowitzSleigh of handsNov 17 00:10
MinceRdoes it have jingle bells?Nov 17 00:10
oiaohmfakeroot-ng is way better than fakerootNov 17 00:10
schestowitzPull some "behind" meat from under the counter while you look awayNov 17 00:10
_Hicham_schestowitz : well, I see it when the butcher is cutting the slicesNov 17 00:10
_Hicham_schestowitz : and I know which part I am buyingNov 17 00:10
schestowitz_Hicham_: he could trick youNov 17 00:10
_Hicham_schestowitz : how ?Nov 17 00:10
oiaohmThere are no bipass holes in fakeroot-ng that normal fakeroot suffers from MinceRNov 17 00:10
schestowitzWhat if no customers buy some parts?Nov 17 00:10
_Hicham_schestowitz : unless I have no eyesNov 17 00:10
schestowitzEventually, even if by pricing, all must goNov 17 00:11
schestowitzHere there are discounts to ensure all's sold before expiryNov 17 00:11
oiaohmIe guess what makes is fradile MinceRNov 17 00:11
_Hicham_schestowitz : I won't buy that part, and he can't trick me, because I do have my eyesNov 17 00:11
MinceRi have no idea what makes it fragileNov 17 00:11
schestowitzMaybe they can hold up sign "Arse now 50% off while stocks last"Nov 17 00:11
MinceRiirc the problem was that it just installed its files and announced failureNov 17 00:12
_Hicham_schestowitz : u may be tricked there, because u don't have butchersNov 17 00:12
_Hicham_schestowitz : do u buy from supermarkets ?Nov 17 00:12
schestowitzWe don't have chicken eitherNov 17 00:12
oiaohmMinceR: fakeroot hole MinceRNov 17 00:12
schestowitzIt's like a new breedNov 17 00:12
oiaohmKnow it well MinceRNov 17 00:12
schestowitzThey turned chicken to biological 'machines' hereNov 17 00:12
schestowitzAnd they put them on fake foods to stuff em up quickly and cheaplyNov 17 00:12
MinceRoiaohm: does checkinstall use fakeroot-ng by default on recent *ubuntu?Nov 17 00:12
schestowitzThe chicks are treated like seedsNov 17 00:13
oiaohmMinceR: you have the option to choose fakeroot-ng or fakeroot depending on what one you have installed Nov 17 00:13
oiaohmIe Fakeroot should be removed from all debain systems and fakeroot-ng installed lots of problems disappear.Nov 17 00:14
oiaohmDid you think for one min Ubuntu maintainers would be sane MinceR?Nov 17 00:14
schestowitz_Hicham_: I have a question for youNov 17 00:14
_Hicham_schestowitz : i seen on a documentary that in the UK chicken is mixed with pig meatNov 17 00:14
_Hicham_schestowitz : go aheadNov 17 00:14
schestowitzIf there is something like this "god thing", why did he make us all murderers? We must kill plants or animals, otherwise we dieNov 17 00:15
schestowitzDo you see the irony?Nov 17 00:15
_Hicham_schestowitz : there is no irony, i only see harmonyNov 17 00:15
schestowitz"God" sent us to kill other fellow speciesNov 17 00:15
schestowitzIt's quite a show for him to watch!Nov 17 00:15
_Hicham_schestowitz : what should he have done ?Nov 17 00:15
_Hicham_schestowitz : created a perfect world ?Nov 17 00:15
schestowitzI only eat fish now, not meatNov 17 00:16
_Hicham_huh, u still killing fishNov 17 00:16
schestowitzBut if I go vegetarian I still kill poor defenceless plantsNov 17 00:16
MinceRoiaohm: i can't predict that, they seem to randomly alternate between sanity and insanityNov 17 00:16
_Hicham_schestowitz : that is a common misconceptionNov 17 00:16
schestowitz[00:14] <_Hicham_> schestowitz : i seen on a documentary that in the UK chicken is mixed with pig meatNov 17 00:16
_Hicham_ur not the only one to tell me thatNov 17 00:16
schestowitzMaybe it tastes better.Nov 17 00:16
*schestowitz passes to _Hicham_ chicken is mixed with pig meatNov 17 00:16
schestowitz /is//Nov 17 00:17
oiaohmNote you don't have to kill plants to live from them.Nov 17 00:17
MinceRschestowitz: which part of the fish do you eat, if not the meat? :>Nov 17 00:17
schestowitzoiaohm: true, you can eat partsNov 17 00:17
schestowitzThat's till like castration of plantsNov 17 00:17
MinceR"if god hadn't meant us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat"Nov 17 00:17
schestowitzLike eating lizard's tails, then waiting for them to grow backNov 17 00:17
MinceRalso, vat-grown meat is now in experimental phase, afaikNov 17 00:18
schestowitzMinceR: depends on definition of "meat"Nov 17 00:18
MinceRbesides, i'm on the top of the food pyramid :>Nov 17 00:18
schestowitzDoes yolk qualify as "meat"?Nov 17 00:18
MinceRnopeNov 17 00:18
schestowitzMinceR: bring out the dinosaurds!Nov 17 00:18
MinceRthey might be tastyNov 17 00:18
schestowitzMinceR: Madoff & Co are at the top of the food chainNov 17 00:19
MinceRwell, i know the dinosaurs i've eaten are tastyNov 17 00:19
schestowitzAt eat us all for breakfastNov 17 00:19
oiaohmLettus is a good example when it flowers it not eatable.Nov 17 00:19
MinceRschestowitz: i mean literally.Nov 17 00:19
MinceRdinosaurs of the Aves class are often eaten currently ;)Nov 17 00:19
schestowitzThere are many types of themNov 17 00:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Apple Wouldn’t Risk Its Cool Over an Ad Gimmick, Would It? - I hope they do it http://tinyurl.com/ygchjyaNov 17 00:20
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schestowitzDifferent tastes maybe... do some cultures east crocodiles?Nov 17 00:20
schestowitz*EatNov 17 00:20
MinceRgnNov 17 00:20
schestowitzIt's funny how one culture chooses one animal but not anotherNov 17 00:20
schestowitzIn some places eating maggots is fineNov 17 00:20
schestowitzDogs tooNov 17 00:20
schestowitzSOme of the animals *We* eat would seem terrible to themNov 17 00:20
schestowitzIt's all habitsNov 17 00:21
schestowitzAnd culture, upbringingNov 17 00:21
oiaohmSalt water croc is not bad.Nov 17 00:21
MinceRdogs are disgusting anywayNov 17 00:21
schestowitzAMazonians love eating some tarantulaNov 17 00:21
Diablo-D3tastes like chickenNov 17 00:21
schestowitzMinceR: I never tried and never willNov 17 00:21
oiaohmchicken seams to be the generic taste of anythign we have not tasted before and cannot identify.Nov 17 00:22
schestowitzWell, maybe the US can export some "food" to CHian then to pay back the debtNov 17 00:22
schestowitz"Don't sent the dogfood, send the dog" -- CHinaNov 17 00:22
oiaohmschestowitz: not going to work.Nov 17 00:22
_Hicham_there are some meats that are harmful for usNov 17 00:22
oiaohmChina is reducing there population so they can be self supporting.Nov 17 00:22
MinceRand humans probably eat too much garbage to be healthy to eat :>Nov 17 00:22
_Hicham_and even the beheading way, makes a big differenceNov 17 00:23
schestowitzYeah,. fried potatoesNov 17 00:23
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_Hicham_the way animals are beheaded in the Occident, is really anti-hygienicNov 17 00:23
schestowitzEww... I don't like these termsNov 17 00:23
_Hicham_what terms ?Nov 17 00:23
schestowitzDon't some animals get elecrecuted first?Nov 17 00:23
schestowitzToo few people know the stories of their foodsNov 17 00:24
_Hicham_electocuted ?Nov 17 00:24
schestowitzThey never see how chicken they eat are treatedNov 17 00:24
_Hicham_I know eat MacFoodNov 17 00:24
schestowitzIt's not in the 'mainstream media'Nov 17 00:24
_Hicham_I know the way it is doneNov 17 00:24
schestowitzMacFood...Nov 17 00:24
_Hicham_it is basically s***Nov 17 00:24
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schestowitzThey'd probably visualise it as Happy Cow moving upright on conveyer belt and coming out from other hand as wafers of yummy burgers for a kid to smile at mommyNov 17 00:25
oiaohmCattle are stuned then steal bolt sent into brain killing them.Nov 17 00:25
oiaohmIn normal westen world.Nov 17 00:25
schestowitzNot alwaysNov 17 00:25
schestowitzIn some places people report incidents of calves being skinned aliveNov 17 00:25
schestowitzThat's the animals rights group who report thisNov 17 00:26
oiaohmThere is a reason why you don't do that.Nov 17 00:26
_Hicham_i seen it on tvNov 17 00:26
oiaohmThen it followed by beheading.Nov 17 00:26
oiaohmThat is the normal correct path.Nov 17 00:26
_Hicham_cows are put in a GUILLOTINE !Nov 17 00:26
ender2070someone told me "halal" meats are torturedNov 17 00:26
_Hicham_yes, a real guillotineNov 17 00:26
oiaohmAnimal freaking out.Nov 17 00:26
_Hicham_ender2070 : he lied to uNov 17 00:26
oiaohmEquals stress chemicals released equals harder meat to eat.Nov 17 00:27
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, hiding the heads is the ugly partsNov 17 00:27
_Hicham_halal meats are the most healthy onesNov 17 00:27
ender2070thats what i was thinkingNov 17 00:27
schestowitzI once saw one in a farmNov 17 00:27
schestowitzShocking experienceNov 17 00:27
ender2070cause if you scare an animal before you kill it, toxins enter their musclesNov 17 00:27
schestowitzEither if you see the headless cow of just headsNov 17 00:27
schestowitzThat's the truth about meals we eastNov 17 00:27
schestowitz*EatNov 17 00:27
_Hicham_ender2070 : the most healthy meat are meat done in the jewish way and muslim wayNov 17 00:28
schestowitzender2070: this begs the question, ethical execution for morality of just for taste and $$$?Nov 17 00:28
_Hicham_schestowitz kills animal like if he was killing MiguelNov 17 00:28
schestowitz_Hicham_: shut up alreadyNov 17 00:28
_Hicham_he pulls out a knife and put it in their throatNov 17 00:29
ender2070i dont think killing animals for food is wrong at allNov 17 00:29
_Hicham_and let them bleedNov 17 00:29
schestowitz_Hicham_: I'd kick you out of the channel if you do this trollingNov 17 00:29
ender2070and the way its done now is a lot more humane than we did back in caveman daysNov 17 00:29
_Hicham_schestowitz : r u talking seriously ?Nov 17 00:29
schestowitzYesNov 17 00:29
oiaohmYes and no ender2070Nov 17 00:29
schestowitzYou feed trolls, tooNov 17 00:29
_Hicham_schestowitz : which trolls ?Nov 17 00:29
oiaohmVery early on it was learnt killing animals particular ways improved taste.Nov 17 00:30
schestowitzThe ones who readNov 17 00:30
_Hicham_now u care about themNov 17 00:30
_Hicham_i see a lot of bad things happen in the channel and u don't reactNov 17 00:30
_Hicham_now u like to reactNov 17 00:30
_Hicham_greatNov 17 00:30
_Hicham_i like thatNov 17 00:30
_Hicham_for once u care about ur channelNov 17 00:31
schestowitz_Hicham_: you cross the lines of tact and it's not funnyNov 17 00:31
_Hicham_why ?Nov 17 00:31
schestowitzLook at the stuff you writeNov 17 00:31
_Hicham_it is just a figureNov 17 00:31
ender2070whos a trollNov 17 00:31
_Hicham_if someone believes that literally, he must be a real idiotNov 17 00:31
schestowitzPeople might quote out of contextNov 17 00:31
_Hicham_like some of my writings that i have found in colaNov 17 00:32
oiaohmHeck for top price cattle and that must not even get brussed in the process.Nov 17 00:32
schestowitzAnd you don't show much humour in these idiotic statementsNov 17 00:32
oiaohmSo no hitting them to load them into the truck to go get killed.Nov 17 00:32
_Hicham_huhNov 17 00:32
_Hicham_u r really on ur nerves todayNov 17 00:32
schestowitzNoNov 17 00:32
schestowitzYou're doing some foolish thingsNov 17 00:33
schestowitzNot everyone reads it like you doNov 17 00:33
ender2070^^Nov 17 00:33
oiaohmI grew up on a cattle property.Nov 17 00:33
ender2070sometimes its hard to tell if hes joking or notNov 17 00:33
_Hicham_if i don't find a serious conversation i start jokingNov 17 00:34
ender2070its hard to tell without <sarcasm> tags or LOL'sNov 17 00:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Works Well for Business http://blogs.fsfe.org/stargrave/archives/51Nov 17 00:36
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Software #Freedom Gets Ladder, #GNU Project Receives Award http://ur1.ca/fwv6 http://ur1.ca/fwv7Nov 17 00:39
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Extensive Coverage of #ODF -Dedicated Standards Event (Plugfest) http://ur1.ca/fwvaNov 17 00:40
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sun VP Advocates File Sharing http://blogs.sun.com/webmink/entry/links_for_2009_11_14Nov 17 00:42
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Internet Governance Forum Plagued by #Censorship http://ur1.ca/fwvd http://ur1.ca/fwveNov 17 00:43
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_Hicham_ender2070 : if u know me u will know when im jokingNov 17 00:45
_Hicham_and schestowitz has over-reactedNov 17 00:45
schestowitzLook back at what you wroteNov 17 00:45
schestowitzThere's no joking about such thingsNov 17 00:46
schestowitzIt didn't even seem like humour because it was not funnyNov 17 00:46
_Hicham_schestowitz : why i don't get upset when u call me a terrorist ?Nov 17 00:46
_Hicham_plus, people will believe what I wrote LITERALLY if u was the one to write itNov 17 00:47
_Hicham_not meNov 17 00:47
_Hicham_it remains my sayings, not ursNov 17 00:47
schestowitzI didn't call you a terroristNov 17 00:48
schestowitzThere would be no humour value in it and it's not trueNov 17 00:48
_Hicham_if u felt offended, I insist to present my sincere apologiesNov 17 00:49
_Hicham_but the kick/ban thing from u, was wrongNov 17 00:49
tessierIt's his channel.Nov 17 00:49
_Hicham_if u want me to leave, just say it, and u will never see me againNov 17 00:49
tessierSounds like he would prefer some behavior modification instead.Nov 17 00:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Conspires with Newspaper to Attack #Google http://ur1.ca/fs7oNov 17 00:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] iPhones Go "Boom"! http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/iphone/iphone-user-seeks-answers-for-explosion-20091116-ihan.htmlNov 17 00:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Tries to Derail #GNU #Linux Migration in Russian #Schools http://ur1.ca/fwvsNov 17 00:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Ubuntu Karmic is the venue for Gnome V KDE! - http://tinyurl.com/yhh6n93 #linux #foss #ubuntu #kubuntu #kde #gnome #microsoft #windows #xpNov 17 00:54
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ender2070_Hicham_ smart people will know your joking, but the ppl on BBN aren't qualifiedNov 17 00:56
Diablo-D3http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/4ztn5Z7xSx8/Microsoft-Open-Sourcesnobr-wbrnobrNET-Micro-FrameworkNov 17 00:56
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Diablo-D3wtf is this?Nov 17 00:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Sounds like a small puritan band failed to get their way, now will they refuse to vote for her in an election? http://tinyurl.com/yfb7xmkNov 17 00:58
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Microsoft mistakenly believes people use #CSharp instead of !Java http://ur1.ca/fwvwNov 17 01:02
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Zune coming to the UK? lol..I'm sure it will be the "must-have" item over here...just don't mention the new year fiasco.. #fail #microsoftNov 17 01:23
schestowitzDanny Deconstructs the Mainstream Media < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxTT51hO7Wg >Nov 17 01:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Why hasn't an export links feature been put into Chromium yet? #foss #linuxNov 17 01:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Thats me done for the night...Chromium does need a feature to save out your links so that you can backup for a new distro install.Nov 17 01:28
Diablo-D3_goblin: um... why dont you just backup your ~/.chrome?Nov 17 01:34
_goblinI know.....Nov 17 01:35
_goblinbut theres a button for inportNov 17 01:35
_goblinits just a simple feature which makes no sense as to why they haven't implimented it.Nov 17 01:35
schestowitzRaw files are not the sameNov 17 01:35
schestowitzThough Firefox uses html or xmlNov 17 01:36
_goblinff allows you to save out as htmlNov 17 01:36
schestowitzbookmarks.html iircNov 17 01:36
_goblinroy, I think Im liking Gnome again.....Nov 17 01:36
_goblinand Im now off for the night...Nov 17 01:38
_goblingnNov 17 01:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What #Microsoft Does to #GNU #Linux in Russian Schools http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/16/russia-linux-retaliation/Nov 17 01:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What Microsoft Does to GNU/Linux in Russian Schools | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.08 KBNov 17 01:39
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #EbenMoglen ( #SFLC ) Explains Genesis of #IntellectualMonopoly http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/16/genesis-of-patents/Nov 17 02:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Eben Moglen (SFLC) Explains Genesis of Intellectual Monopoly | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 102.86 KBNov 17 02:25
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - Elizabeth Truss 1 Tory Puritans 0 | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/ykk6cjuNov 17 02:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 02:35
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 02:41:25 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellNov 17 02:41
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetupNov 17 02:41
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Thu Nov 5 14:17:55 2009Nov 17 02:41
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelNov 17 02:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've just had my first-ever (in 2.5 months) forced kde 4.3 reboot. GPU crash.Nov 17 02:42
*Will (i=4c724679@gateway/web/freenode/x-dkzxlspfwniuhjym) has joined #boycottnovellNov 17 03:02
Willschestowitz: http://developers.slashdot.org/story/09/11/16/2223248/Microsoft-Open-Sources-NET-Micro-Framework?art_pos=4&art_pos=4Nov 17 03:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 03:03
Willgood comment on it: http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1446022&cid=30123164Nov 17 03:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 03:06
schestowitz"The key below was previously validated but a connection to akismet.com can not be established at this time. Please check your server configuration."Nov 17 03:08
schestowitzIs anyone else getting such as issue?Nov 17 03:08
*Will has quit ("Page closed")Nov 17 03:09
schestowitzWill: ^^Nov 17 03:09
schestowitzHeh.Nov 17 03:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Exposes .NET #Patent Trap to More Potential Copyright Issues http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/16/mono-more-vulnerable/Nov 17 03:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Exposes .NET Patent Trap to More Potential Copyright Issues | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.13 KBNov 17 03:10
schestowitztessier: "A DNS problem or firewall is preventing all access from your web server to Akismet.com. Akismet cannot work correctly until this is fixed. Please contact your web host or firewall administrator and give them this information about Akismet and firewalls." http://blog.akismet.com/akismet-hosting-faq/Nov 17 03:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 03:12
schestowitzSeems to have lost contact like this about 4 hours agoNov 17 03:12
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Microsoft's pseudo sudo patent doesn't really cover sudo, but covers PolicyKit - Ryan Paul (sudo developer) http://tr.im/F71fNov 17 03:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 03:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Report of #IGF09 Dcos Workshop #OpenStandards - A Rights-Based Framework http://tr.im/F721Nov 17 03:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 03:25
schestowitzgnNov 17 03:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Colludes Against #Google http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/16/microsoft-assured-damage/Nov 17 03:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Colludes Against Google | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 99.96 KBNov 17 03:44
tessierschestowitz: Not sure how that could have anything to do with the server...Nov 17 03:47
DaemonFChttp://cavemancircus.com/2009/11/13/juggling-fail/Nov 17 03:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 03:57
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Nvidia mass produces a card no one wants, put together with wood screws http://ur1.ca/fx79Nov 17 04:16
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oiaohmhttp://port25.technet.com/archive/2009/11/16/microsoft-to-open-source-the-net-micro-framework.aspx  Still not perfectly happy.Nov 17 05:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 05:28
oiaohmBut at least its a step in the right direction.Nov 17 05:28
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DaemonFCI don't know that I should attempt to switch over to DSLNov 17 05:58
DaemonFCThe DSL is $52 with the compulsory phone line, but I lose all my cable TV channels and the DSL is only half as fast (6 Mbps)Nov 17 06:00
DaemonFCIf I stay with cable after my discounts wear off, it'll be about $100 for 12 Mbps and about 100 channelsNov 17 06:00
DaemonFCso really, there is no good option, cause I'd have to order satellite TV to get my channels back and eat up everything I savedNov 17 06:01
DaemonFCAT&T support also leaves much to be desiredNov 17 06:02
DaemonFCI told them I was running Linux and had no access to a Windows box to run their software, they told me to go buy a Windows XP disc so I could activate the modemNov 17 06:03
DaemonFCI ended up downloading a cracked copy of XP, installing it, activating the modem, and wiping the partitionNov 17 06:03
DaemonFCComcast was a lot easier to deal with on that issue. I did have to argue with a support drone, but once I asked for a supervisor, that person activated my modem without arguing with meNov 17 06:04
DaemonFCbut she did still stop and ask me what Linux was, because she was curiousNov 17 06:04
DaemonFCI think it's bizarre that your ISP should even care what OS you run or why you got their internet serviceNov 17 06:05
DaemonFCoiaohm: I told her that I may be willing to pay for their internet service just to hook up a game console, and if I was paying my bill, it's none of their businessNov 17 06:06
DaemonFCI don't know why a business would walk away and refuse your money like AT&T apparently doesNov 17 06:06
DaemonFCeven if only 1% of their customers want to use Linux, that's still moneyNov 17 06:07
DaemonFCwhy would they tell you to piss off and give your money to Comcast?Nov 17 06:07
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oiaohmOr at least fund the development of reactos DaemonFCNov 17 06:30
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tessierPaul Alan has cancer? :(Nov 17 07:07
tessieroiaohm: Still no patent promise.Nov 17 07:07
*Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).Nov 17 07:14
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 07:14:09 2009
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tessierPaul Alan has cancer? :(07:07
tessieroiaohm: Still no patent promise.07:07
oiaohmtessier: appache 2.0 licence means that block of code is protected from patent attack.07:13
oiaohmDeath of a 1000 cuts tessier07:13
<-- schestowitz_log has left this server (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).07:13
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tessierWhat do you mean "Death of a 1000 cuts"?07:17
tessierDoes being under Apache license make their code safe to use or not?07:17
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ender2070allegedly07:19
ender2070however its not the same .net we're fighting07:19
ender2070seems like an embedded version07:19
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 17 07:17:44 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellNov 17 07:17
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetupNov 17 07:17
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Thu Nov 5 14:17:55 2009Nov 17 07:17
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelNov 17 07:17
ender2070allegedlyNov 17 07:19
ender2070however its not the same .net we're fightingNov 17 07:19
ender2070seems like an embedded versionNov 17 07:19
oiaohmtessier: Apache 2.0 licence is like gplv3 when it comes to patents tessierNov 17 07:26
oiaohmYou must provide rolity free patent grant with itNov 17 07:26
tessiercoolNov 17 07:32
tessierHopefully that code can be safe to use then.Nov 17 07:33
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oiaohmender2070:  yes it is a embed version.  The non memory hogging version.Nov 17 07:35
oiaohmEven better bit Apache 2.0 can be wrapped inside a gplv3 project tessierNov 17 07:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @caffsouza: Zero discussion on intellectual property, #A2K or open standards in the openness/security/privacy main session at #IGF09Nov 17 07:38
oiaohmhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzcxMQ  This is interesting.Nov 17 07:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 07:45
oiaohmVmware driver using Gallium3D for all the extras.Nov 17 07:46
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DaemonFChttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116516Nov 17 08:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:18
DaemonFCI guess Windows XP got more valuable in light of Vista 7Nov 17 08:18
DaemonFC $409.99 Nov 17 08:18
DaemonFCB-)Nov 17 08:19
DaemonFCI actually didn't mind using XP x64 Edition, but they've made it so uncomfortable to use that you may as well not botherNov 17 08:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT pranesh_prakash All wireless networks now have to be registered in India, and we talk of privacy? @schneier #igf09Nov 17 08:19
DaemonFC(even though they "say" it's supported til 2014)Nov 17 08:19
DaemonFChttp://www.crn.com/security/221800251;jsessionid=4I3VWMTZ0KPBVQE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVNNov 17 08:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:21
DaemonFCanother Vista 7 zero dayNov 17 08:21
DaemonFCjust like Vista, XP, 2000, 98.....Nov 17 08:21
oiaohmNot exactly DaemonFCNov 17 08:21
oiaohmMost XP new disk production has stopped.Nov 17 08:22
DaemonFCoiaohm, I do not like Windows 7Nov 17 08:22
oiaohmMS wants to sell you Windows 7 pro with downgrade option DaemonFCNov 17 08:22
DaemonFCIt should have downgrade rights to XP x64 built-inNov 17 08:22
DaemonFCoiaohm, Downgrade to Vista maybeNov 17 08:23
oiaohm64 bit version dos.Nov 17 08:23
oiaohmdoes.Nov 17 08:23
DaemonFCnormal 32-bit XP can't handle lots of RAMNov 17 08:23
oiaohmWindows 7 pro 64 bit version can downgrade to vista 64 bit and xp 64 bit.Nov 17 08:23
oiaohmOk I don't know why you would be using the vista bit of the downgrade rights.Nov 17 08:23
DaemonFCI actually kind of liked XPNov 17 08:23
DaemonFCoiaohm, Well, every Windows 7 user is a Vista user anywayNov 17 08:23
DaemonFCso yeah, why downgrade to what you're already running?Nov 17 08:24
oiaohmAnd if you really nuts Windows 7 to Windows 2000 downgrade is still valid.Nov 17 08:24
DaemonFCWindows 7 looks like it was designed by a drunken IrishmanNov 17 08:26
ender2070why use windows at allNov 17 08:26
DaemonFCwho couldn't decide how many ways you should go about accessing the same folderNov 17 08:26
DaemonFCit literally gives you like no organization at allNov 17 08:27
DaemonFCit piles your videos, music, and pictures in "libraries" no matter what folder they're actually really inNov 17 08:28
oiaohmAlso what suxs.Nov 17 08:28
DaemonFCbut if you drop videos, pictures, or music in the libraries, it gives you an error messageNov 17 08:28
oiaohmDuel boot of Windows 7 and a Windows 7 downgrade you need 2 copies of windows 7Nov 17 08:28
DaemonFClike it doesn't know to drop the pictures in the pictures folder or whateverNov 17 08:28
oiaohmMost people did not notice the wording change in Windows 7 Licence.Nov 17 08:29
oiaohmThat is 1 licence per runable copy.Nov 17 08:29
DaemonFCdo people ever pay attention to page 493?Nov 17 08:29
oiaohmMost don't.Nov 17 08:29
ender2070i hate dellNov 17 08:30
ender2070cant update my god damned biosNov 17 08:30
oiaohmThere is worse.Nov 17 08:30
oiaohmTry a compaqNov 17 08:30
oiaohmI guess need windows to flash bios ?Nov 17 08:30
DaemonFCoiaohm, NoNov 17 08:31
cubezzzI use Tyan boards myselfNov 17 08:31
DaemonFCMake a DOS boot CDNov 17 08:31
DaemonFCFreeDOS will workNov 17 08:31
ender2070noNov 17 08:31
ender2070i need windows actuallyNov 17 08:31
DaemonFCand use the DOS version of the patcherNov 17 08:31
ender2070theres no dos patcherNov 17 08:31
ender2070dont make assumptionsNov 17 08:31
cubezzzalso I'd never buy an off the shelf computerNov 17 08:31
oiaohmhttp://linux.dell.com/projects.shtml#biosdisk  << Find this helps ender2070Nov 17 08:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:31
oiaohmLinux support as a bootdisk flasher.Nov 17 08:32
ender2070might helpNov 17 08:32
ender2070no floppy thoNov 17 08:32
ender2070ill have to over write my flash drive with a floppy image -_-Nov 17 08:33
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cubezzzcoreboot ftw :)Nov 17 08:33
ender2070coreboot?Nov 17 08:33
ender2070dd for the winNov 17 08:33
cubezzzhttp://www.coreboot.orgNov 17 08:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:33
oiaohmender2070: grub will load floppy image.Nov 17 08:34
oiaohmOr glueing floppy image to cd works as well.Nov 17 08:34
ender2070i was gonna glue it to my usbNov 17 08:34
oiaohmThat also works.Nov 17 08:34
ender2070i do it with isos all the timeNov 17 08:35
ender2070cant be bothered to burn a million disksNov 17 08:35
oiaohmThe from windows dell flashing tool is crap.Nov 17 08:35
ender2070yesNov 17 08:35
ender2070their linux one hasn't been updated in 3 yearsNov 17 08:35
ender2070only works with gcc 3Nov 17 08:35
oiaohmHey it works dependbally.Nov 17 08:35
oiaohmMight need a old gcc but at least it works.Nov 17 08:36
cubezzzyes, I still use old gcc for some thingsNov 17 08:36
ender2070nah tried it, its totally brokenNov 17 08:36
ender2070even with old gccNov 17 08:36
oiaohmhttp://linux.dell.com/git/?p=biosdisk.git;a=summary  biosdisk was updated 3 months ago ender2070Nov 17 08:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:36
cubezzzit really pays to do some research into hardwareNov 17 08:37
ender2070biosdisk isnt what im talking aboutNov 17 08:37
ender2070libsmbios isNov 17 08:37
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oiaohmhttp://linux.dell.com/git/  3 months ago as well ender2070Nov 17 08:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:37
oiaohmDell git site is handy ender2070Nov 17 08:38
ender2070i have libsmbiosNov 17 08:38
ender2070but it doesnt seem to do shitNov 17 08:38
cubezzzI'm on my 11th year with this board :)Nov 17 08:40
oiaohmIf you had 3 year old version and hardware is newer it would make perfect sence it not working ender2070Nov 17 08:40
ender2070which boardNov 17 08:40
ender2070i was going by the old copyright on their websiteNov 17 08:41
ender2070i have 2.2.18Nov 17 08:41
ender2070none of the binaries they say do stuff workNov 17 08:41
ender2070or get included at allNov 17 08:41
cubezzzhttp://www.cubeman.org/linux-hardware.htmlNov 17 08:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:41
ender2070im trying to follow thisNov 17 08:41
ender2070http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dell_XPS_M1330Nov 17 08:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:41
oiaohmI cannot remember if it needs a dell Linux kernel to work or not ender2070Nov 17 08:42
ender2070it shouldnt need itNov 17 08:43
cubezzzender2070, some folks are still running Amiga 1200s :)Nov 17 08:43
ender2070LOLNov 17 08:44
ender2070John Hull fixed biosdiskNov 17 08:44
ender2070i think thats the FreeDOS guyNov 17 08:44
cubezzzand guess what? :)Nov 17 08:46
cubezzzhttp://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/hardware/amiga/a1200.html&cart_id=2693142_15674Nov 17 08:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:46
cubezzzdun dun DUN Nov 17 08:46
ender2070lolNov 17 08:46
cubezzzthe power tower could be yoursNov 17 08:46
ender2070my palmtx is probably fasterNov 17 08:46
ender2070yupNov 17 08:47
cubezzzwhich cpu?Nov 17 08:47
ender2070400mhz i thinkNov 17 08:47
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Np237HeyaNov 17 08:47
Np237So, everyone is wondering now: are you guys going to take gnote development in your hands?Nov 17 08:48
cubezzzwow, they want a fortune for the Amiga 4000TNov 17 08:48
ender2070perhaps if tomboy didnt suck balls it would be worth cloningNov 17 08:48
Np237ender2070, apparently the clone was deemed worth praisingNov 17 08:50
ender2070anything anti mono is worth praisingNov 17 08:50
Np237Then praise Microsoft.Nov 17 08:50
Np237They are very much against Mono, since it’s a competitor for their products.Nov 17 08:50
ender2070c# helps them more than anyoneNov 17 08:50
ender2070noobNov 17 08:51
ender2070thats why they gave miguel the community promise when he asked?Nov 17 08:51
ender2070oh right, ur trolling failsNov 17 08:52
Np237BWAAHAHAHAHAHAAAANov 17 08:52
ender2070linky?Nov 17 08:52
Np237You can say it now: you’re a bot, right?Nov 17 08:53
ender2070http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2009/Jul-06.htmlNov 17 08:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:53
ender2070"A few months ago we approached Bob Muglia and Brian Goldfarb  (@bgoldy) at Microsoft with a request to clarify the licensing situation for the ECMA standards covering C# and the CLI (also ISO standards, for the ISO loving among you). "Nov 17 08:53
ender2070and miguel has friends in microsoft tooNov 17 08:54
Np237Amazing.Nov 17 08:54
Np237So he’s working for them underwater, right?Nov 17 08:54
Np237Because of his “friends”.Nov 17 08:54
ender2070miguel even works for microsoft  http://www.codeplex.org/board-of-directors.aspxNov 17 08:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:55
Np237ender2070, you have some trouble reading.Nov 17 08:56
Np237ender2070, it’s written there: Miguel de Icaza - Novell.Nov 17 08:56
ender2070codeplex is owned by msftNov 17 08:56
ender2070therefor, he works for themNov 17 08:56
ender2070hes on their board of directorsNov 17 08:56
ender2070what is he doing there, if hes not doing a job?Nov 17 08:56
Np237Eating pop corn?Nov 17 08:57
Np237That’s what I’d do if I were him, I’d be lurking on this channel and eat pop-corn.Nov 17 08:58
Np237After a year, I’d send all your logs to my lawyer and sue you for defamation.Nov 17 08:58
ender2070lolNov 17 08:58
ender2070you're quite funny yourselfNov 17 08:59
schestowitztessier: I've realised the server does not mail me eitherNov 17 08:59
schestowitzMaybe it's related to the 'can't reach akismet' thingNov 17 08:59
schestowitz"Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzUh oh, one company that makes ARM chips is free software hostile.Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_OMAPNov 17 08:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:59
schestowitzhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB125832581224549493.htmlNov 17 08:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 08:59
Np237ender2070, actually you should be glad Miguel is kinder than me. I would not have tolerated such public mudslinging if I were him.Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzThey send cease and desist letters to people who try modify their calculators Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzand share their hacks.  No wonder so many phones and other portable devices Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzare so hard to work with.  Linux without freedom is just as useless and Nov 17 08:59
schestowitzsuspect as any other software without freedom.  Nov 17 08:59
schestowitz"Nov 17 08:59
ender2070Np237 - you're threats dont scare meNov 17 09:00
ender2070saying someone has tries with msft is hardly defamation, especially when hes on the board of directors of a company still legally owned by MicrosoftNov 17 09:00
Np237OK so you really don’t understand the difference between a foundation and a company.Nov 17 09:01
ender2070keep eating that popcorn, its boosting your iqNov 17 09:01
Np237That’s not the goal.Nov 17 09:02
schestowitztessier: "RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: Couldn't resolve host 'blogsearch.google.com'"Nov 17 09:03
schestowitzCould it be a dns issue? it seems so.Nov 17 09:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Privacy vs. security is a false dichotomy. But any privacy that is taken away in name of security must be turned into accountability. #igf09Nov 17 09:06
schestowitzHehe: http://www.thatsmyface.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.ilvm_grey.tpl&product_id=44&category_id=10&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=33Nov 17 09:07
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schestowitzhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-merolla-phd/reconsidering-public-reac_b_322505.htmlNov 17 09:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 09:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] This seems like a new program for WIndows: http://www.sampsonuk.net/B3TA/TrojanHorse.jpgNov 17 09:08
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amarsh04_http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/6475151/police-using-smartrider-to-track-people/Nov 17 09:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 09:11
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Nov 17 09:11
amarsh04http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SmartRider#PrivacyNov 17 09:11
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schestowitzamarsh04: RMS was right after all.Nov 17 09:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @pranesh_prakash "Any privacy that's taken away in the name of security must be turned into accountability." #igf09 [ed]Nov 17 09:14
schestowitzamarsh04: started my day with the radio broadcasting news about "terrorism"Nov 17 09:15
schestowitz"Gotta keep them footpeople on their toes...." :-)Nov 17 09:15
schestowitzSixty per cent of kids are cyberbullying victims http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1562276/sixty-cent-kids-cyberbullying-victimsNov 17 09:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 09:17
amarsh04yes, if you don't fight for freedom, freedom ends up being trampledNov 17 09:18
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schestowitzIt's easy to defend surveillance when they say "terrori*" all the timeNov 17 09:20
schestowitzFor some reason, the BN server can't resolve w/ DNSNov 17 09:20
amarsh04I would say that surveillance is a form of terrori*Nov 17 09:20
ender2070whenever any government acts like big brother, terror*sm is the excuseNov 17 09:22
schestowitztessier: looking at some logs, it seems to stop working (DNS) around midnight GTM/CETNov 17 09:23
schestowitzender2070: Stasi?Nov 17 09:23
ender2070??Nov 17 09:23
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StasiNov 17 09:24
schestowitzTo 'protect' the public from the socialists maybe.... after the Reichstag was burnedNov 17 09:25
schestowitzThat's what one source would say...Nov 17 09:25
oiaohmLOL someone at long last found the easter egg in avg.Nov 17 09:25
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW9PulYpjGsNov 17 09:26
ender2070lolNov 17 09:27
schestowitzNow they want to justify putting CCTV inside PEOPLE'S HOUSES in the UKNov 17 09:27
ender2070gotta stop those terroristsNov 17 09:27
schestowitzGoogle helps proprietary folks: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/16/google-earth-for-iphone-20-arrives\Nov 17 09:28
ender2070terrorism terrorism terrorism, buy stuff, stop smiling, private property, terrorism terrorism terrorismNov 17 09:28
schestowitzThey must be sexying up some of these reports hereNov 17 09:29
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSpXakQ8fM&NR=1Nov 17 09:30
ender2070hehNov 17 09:30
ender2070i don't mind google so muchNov 17 09:30
ender2070i hope they kick microsofts assNov 17 09:30
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schestowitzfreenode failNov 17 09:35
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schestowitzDid you say anything after "Nov 17 09:35
schestowitzNov 17 09:36
schestowitz[09:30] <ender2070> i hope they kick microsofts assNov 17 09:36
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] #LOL RD: @schestowitz: This seems like a new program for WIndows: http://www.sampsonuk.net/B3TA/TrojanHorse.jpgNov 17 09:36
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-tomaw-[Global Notice] One of our servers just split from the network causing ~7,000 people to reconnect. We're investigating the cause now, sorry for the noise!Nov 17 09:40
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schestowitz!google uk cctv people's housesNov 17 09:42
phIRCe-localHello World!Nov 17 09:42
phIRCe-local[1] - Britain To Put CCTV Cameras Inside Private Homes | Gadget Lab ... | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/08/britain-to-put-cctv-cameras-inside-private-homes/Nov 17 09:42
phIRCe-local[2] - Daily Express | UK News :: Sin bins for worst families | http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-familiesNov 17 09:42
phIRCe-local[3] - Are Cctv's Invading People's Privacy? | http://www.trap17.com/index.php/cctvs-invading-peoples-privacy_t60872.htmlNov 17 09:42
phIRCe-local[4] - House of Lords: rise of CCTV is threat to freedom | UK news | The ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/06/surveillance-freedom-peersNov 17 09:42
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cubezzzI yeah I don't want CCTV's everywhereNov 17 09:44
schestowitzTaxpayers buy themNov 17 09:44
schestowitzANd they take many people to monitor (too much signal anyway)Nov 17 09:44
cubezzzat banks I can understand, or in storesNov 17 09:44
cubezzznot everywhere thoughNov 17 09:44
schestowitzThe issue is, cameras don't prevent crimeNov 17 09:44
schestowitz!google evidence cctv not prevent crimeNov 17 09:45
phIRCe-local[1] - CCTV boom has failed to slash crime, say police | UK news | The ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/may/06/ukcrime1Nov 17 09:45
phIRCe-local[2] - Center for Problem Oriented Policing | Response Guides | Video ... | http://www.popcenter.org/responses/video_surveillance/3Nov 17 09:45
phIRCe-local[3] - CCTV cameras: If they do not stop crime or catch criminals, what ... | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/6083476/CCTV-cameras-If-they-do-not-stop-crime-or-catch-criminals-what-are-they-for.htmlNov 17 09:45
phIRCe-local[4] - BBC NEWS | Talking Point | CCTV: Does it deter crime? | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/2071824.stmNov 17 09:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's not their pointNov 17 09:45
DaemonFCtheir point is to make an issue of themselvesNov 17 09:45
DaemonFCfor political reasonsNov 17 09:45
schestowitzCreate fear?Nov 17 09:45
cubezzzthe real problem is people stealNov 17 09:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @Info_Activism: RT @evgenymorozov :using VoIP (e.g. Skype) in Oman can get you in jail 212 people arrested yesterday http://bit.ly/3gYYkwNov 17 09:45
oiaohmcctv alone don't prevent crime.Nov 17 09:45
phIRCe-localTitle: Times of Oman .::. Size~: 40.66 KBNov 17 09:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: yeahNov 17 09:45
cubezzzrun a retail store for a while... then you will knowNov 17 09:46
DaemonFC"We're watching you"Nov 17 09:46
oiaohmAustralian open spaces with cammares being used to deploy police have shown to be effective.Nov 17 09:46
oiaohmMostly targeting intervention.Nov 17 09:46
oiaohmIe break up fight starting before it starts.Nov 17 09:46
DaemonFCschestowitz: Most of them are dummiesNov 17 09:47
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cubezzzI wonder if crime is getting worse or betterNov 17 09:47
DaemonFCNo way they'd spend the kind of money it takes to monitor all of themNov 17 09:47
cubezzzvery low crime in SwiterzerlandNov 17 09:48
oiaohmThe is a big issue between man power and cams.Nov 17 09:49
cubezzzcrime rates in Canada rather flat over the last 20 yearsNov 17 09:49
oiaohmIf cams are used to replace man power it don't work.Nov 17 09:49
oiaohmIf cams are uses to assist deployment it helps.Nov 17 09:49
oiaohmCams alone don't work.Nov 17 09:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] "Access Controlled: The Shaping of Power, Rights, and Rule in Cyberspace". Poster featuring this book was censored IGF09 http://tr.im/F7YsNov 17 09:52
phIRCe-localTitle: Access Controlled - The MIT Press .::. Size~: 13.58 KBNov 17 09:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @sunil_abraham CIS response to TRAI Consultation paper No. 6/2009 http://bit.ly/2Ms8hU #telecom #policy #igf09Nov 17 09:54
phIRCe-localTitle: Response to TRAI Consultation paper No. 6/2009  &mdash; Centre for Internet and Society .::. Size~: 57.63 KBNov 17 09:54
schestowitzhttp://www.thrfeed.com/neverbeforeseen-star-trek-pilot-found.htmlNov 17 09:55
phIRCe-localTitle: Never-before-seen 'Star Trek' pilot found - The Live Feed | THR .::. Size~: 34.28 KBNov 17 09:55
DaemonFCcubezzz: I have a feeling the crime rate in most of the US would be flat over the last 20 years, they keep inventing new laws and making harsher sentences thoughNov 17 09:56
DaemonFCyou can get 20 years for a big bag of weed, but only do 10 years on a murder chargeNov 17 09:57
DaemonFCexplain that to meNov 17 09:57
cubezzzyeah that's crazyNov 17 09:57
ender2070in americaNov 17 09:57
cubezzzwar on drugs didn't workNov 17 09:57
DaemonFCone joint on you is enough to give you a year in jail and a $5,000 fineNov 17 09:57
DaemonFCmore than that and you're royally fuckedNov 17 09:57
ender2070here you would get a ticket for something that smallNov 17 09:58
cubezzzI remember guys smoking weed in HS :)Nov 17 09:58
cubezzzI don't think anyone went to jail over it Nov 17 09:58
DaemonFCender2070: Massachusetts has a sane policy for potNov 17 09:58
ender2070drug dealers have, but thats cause of the quantityNov 17 09:58
DaemonFCthe most you can get for possession of an ounce or less is a $100 ticketNov 17 09:58
schestowitz"When I went to the doctor’s office recently, I assumed I’d be getting my seasonal flu shot, and I’d hoped that I might get an H1N1, swine-flu, shot. I was wrong. It turns out that because of shortages, doctor offices aren’t being supplied with flu vaccines. Worse still, they didn’t know where I could get the shots."Nov 17 09:58
schestowitzhttp://www.itworld.com/tech-amp-society/84889/googling-flu-vaccinesNov 17 09:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Googling for flu vaccines | ITworld .::. Size~: 80.51 KBNov 17 09:58
DaemonFCit's an infraction, it's not even a misdemeanor Nov 17 09:58
schestowitzDonald Trump makes lot of money from "Swine" fluNov 17 09:59
DaemonFCno record or anythingNov 17 09:59
schestowitzhe's the major investorNov 17 09:59
DaemonFCjust pay a fineNov 17 09:59
ender2070yeah i want my mercury/aluminum/othertoxicmetals shotNov 17 09:59
DaemonFCender2070: I took the vaccineNov 17 09:59
ender2070thats why you use windows!Nov 17 09:59
DaemonFCH1N1 was the nasal spray vaccine for meNov 17 09:59
ender2070you were dumbed downNov 17 09:59
ender2070j/kNov 17 09:59
DaemonFCno, I can easily figure out any halfway rational Linux distribution in all of a half hour or lessNov 17 10:00
schestowitzGet H1N1, get RFID _Absolutely_ free! :-DNov 17 10:00
ender2070i don't know for sure about microchipsNov 17 10:00
DaemonFCthe only really insane distros left are Slackware, and Foresight I thinkNov 17 10:01
ender2070its more or less population controlNov 17 10:01
cubezzzYou're all turning into Stallmanites :)Nov 17 10:01
DaemonFCmost of the rest are more alike than they are differentNov 17 10:01
ender2070DaemonFC - arch linuxNov 17 10:01
*cubezzz hands out the aluminium foilNov 17 10:01
DaemonFCOpenSuse Zypper is more or less just like AptNov 17 10:01
DaemonFCEven Yast isn't all that bad anymoreNov 17 10:01
cubezzzI use yumNov 17 10:01
cubezzzor LFS :)Nov 17 10:02
ender2070i hate yast nowNov 17 10:02
DaemonFCwhen I say "bad", I don't mean unlearnable, I mean, it doesn't make you wait on it forever anymoreNov 17 10:02
ender2070i liked it better when it wasnt gtkNov 17 10:02
DaemonFCSuse 10.x Yast, you'd go to install something and then 100 years later, your bones would still be sitting in front of the computerNov 17 10:02
DaemonFCjust as it was finishing upNov 17 10:02
DaemonFCthe biggest mess left in Suse is that stupid Application Browser they use in GNOMENov 17 10:03
cubezzzI go minimalist sometimesNov 17 10:03
ender2070DaemonFC - thats why i stopped using suse, among other reasonsNov 17 10:03
DaemonFCender2070: You could easily put in the regular GNOME menuNov 17 10:04
DaemonFCit's not a bad distributionNov 17 10:04
ender2070seriouslyNov 17 10:04
DaemonFCUbuntu is going to hell thoughNov 17 10:04
ender2070you should know i HATE gnomeNov 17 10:04
cubezzzstill fighting the blobs thoughNov 17 10:04
cubezzzmy goal is a completely free and open systemNov 17 10:05
DaemonFCoh, that's easyNov 17 10:05
DaemonFCjust rip out all your add-on cardsNov 17 10:05
ender2070I hate spacial mode, i hate the lack of configuration it offersNov 17 10:05
DaemonFCflash your BIOS with CorebootNov 17 10:05
ender2070spacial mode drives me up the wallNov 17 10:05
cubezzzalas, coreboot doesn't support my motherboardNov 17 10:06
DaemonFCand go use StallnixNov 17 10:06
cubezzzI'm not brave enough to run HURDNov 17 10:06
ender2070Stallnix?Nov 17 10:06
DaemonFCwell, I just don't get those ones that Stallman usesNov 17 10:06
DaemonFCit's like once they finish disabling your entire computer, what's left to do?Nov 17 10:06
ender2070Stallman is a man of his moralsNov 17 10:06
DaemonFCIt's a paperweightNov 17 10:06
ender2070he doesn't browse the web like me and you doNov 17 10:07
DaemonFCisn't this stuff supposed to "free" you?Nov 17 10:07
DaemonFCfree you from using your computer maybe?Nov 17 10:07
ender2070yes?Nov 17 10:07
DaemonFCtake the burden off youNov 17 10:07
DaemonFCjust format the drive blank and leave it off whiel you're at itNov 17 10:07
ender2070the non free software doesn't provide you with freedomNov 17 10:07
DaemonFCit lets me use the computerNov 17 10:07
ender2070it lets the computer use youNov 17 10:08
DaemonFCworking computer or paperweight that doesn't do anythingNov 17 10:08
DaemonFCthink I'm going to have to go with working computerNov 17 10:08
ender2070msft tells YOU how to use windows, not the other way aroundNov 17 10:08
DaemonFCender2070: If that was the case, they wouldn't be competing with others on their own OSNov 17 10:08
cubezzzLFS is totally freeNov 17 10:09
cubezzzbut....Nov 17 10:09
DaemonFCOpenOffice, competing web browsersNov 17 10:09
DaemonFCthey'd all be toastNov 17 10:09
ender2070not reallyNov 17 10:09
DaemonFCbut yet they work fine on WindowsNov 17 10:09
ender2070they would get sued againNov 17 10:09
cubezzzthen there's your devices, modules Nov 17 10:09
ender2070they have a monopoly, they have to let their competitors have accessNov 17 10:09
DaemonFCI've always gotten the impression that Microsoft doesn't care what you do with Windows after you've paid them for itNov 17 10:09
cubezzzdon't run doze :)Nov 17 10:10
DaemonFCotherwise they'd bake in some restrictions that actually stopped you from doing somethingNov 17 10:10
ender2070if microsoft didnt care it wouldnt add wga and phone home all the timeNov 17 10:10
cubezzzrun opensolaris, or a LinuxNov 17 10:10
cubezzzI saw Vista and it was awfulNov 17 10:10
cubezzzmemory pigNov 17 10:11
ender2070yeahNov 17 10:11
ender2070i dont blame stallman either, he only wants to use programs that have open source code accessNov 17 10:11
DaemonFCPeople keep shouting that this stuff is coming, so why can I still play games I got off the pirate bay and mp3s I've downloaded from everywhere?Nov 17 10:11
ender2070flash, nvidia/ati driver blobs, wireless firmware, all have code he cant changeNov 17 10:11
DaemonFCWhere is this invisible hand that is stopping me?Nov 17 10:11
DaemonFCit's been coming for like 20 years now, right?Nov 17 10:11
oiaohmThe hands are there DaemonFCNov 17 10:12
oiaohmJust not what you would identify.Nov 17 10:12
cubezzzI swear sometimes windows screws up on purposeNov 17 10:12
oiaohmNotice that machines that are detected pirated don't get all the updates any more DaemonFCNov 17 10:12
DaemonFCthere's no way to fli pa PC on without using some proprietary softwareNov 17 10:12
cubezzzsome kind of touch of death for pirated windowsNov 17 10:12
DaemonFCeven if you used StallnixNov 17 10:12
oiaohmThen Ms lets nature take is course.Nov 17 10:12
ender2070yes there isNov 17 10:13
cubezzzMagic-1 :)Nov 17 10:13
DaemonFCender2070: Who makes a CPU that doesn't need firmware?Nov 17 10:13
ender2070everyoneNov 17 10:13
DaemonFCWho makes a "free" BIOS that works with most computers?Nov 17 10:13
oiaohmIBM DaemonFCNov 17 10:13
cubezzzLemoteNov 17 10:13
ender2070freebios.orgNov 17 10:13
oiaohmPPC chips techically don't need firmware.Nov 17 10:13
DaemonFConce you turn it on, you've agreed to someone's intellectual property claimsNov 17 10:13
ender2070http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/free-bios.htmlNov 17 10:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Campaign for Free BIOS - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 28.17 KBNov 17 10:14
ender2070http://www.coreboot.org/Welcome_to_corebootNov 17 10:15
phIRCe-localTitle: coreboot .::. Size~: 22.98 KBNov 17 10:15
cubezzzc64 was open actuallyNov 17 10:15
ender2070also, stallman apparently has a pc with an open biosNov 17 10:15
cubezzzyeah he has a LemoteNov 17 10:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @pranesh_prakash Mogens Schmidt of UNESCO praises Global Voices. Says defamation & libel laws should not be *criminal* offences #igf09Nov 17 10:15
ender2070DaemonFC - http://www.lemote.com/english/yeeloong.htmlNov 17 10:16
phIRCe-localTitle: mengloong .::. Size~: 10.88 KBNov 17 10:16
ender2070even if you run one piece of non-free software, the goal is to try not to and find alternatives whenever possibleNov 17 10:18
ender2070if you can't for whatever reason, nobody is stopping you from installing non-free but we're not gonna recommend it to youNov 17 10:19
cubezzzmedia is a different storyNov 17 10:19
ender2070exactlyNov 17 10:20
DaemonFCheh, jerry rigged far east crapNov 17 10:20
DaemonFCI guess it counts thoughNov 17 10:20
ender2070im planning to use adobe flash till gnash is suitable, then im never touching adobe againNov 17 10:20
cubezzzget a Tyan board from the coreboot list thenNov 17 10:20
cubezzzTyan is top qualityNov 17 10:20
ender2070tyan isNov 17 10:20
ender2070DaemonFC - jerry rigged?Nov 17 10:21
DaemonFCif it's like a lot of other GNU projects, GNASH will never work rightNov 17 10:21
ender2070and place tell me how many computer parts you have that dont say "MADE IN CHINA" on the boxNov 17 10:22
DaemonFCthe fact that they're trying to reverse engineer a platform that's still being worked on gives me my doubtNov 17 10:22
ender2070please tell*Nov 17 10:22
ender2070reverse engineer what platformNov 17 10:22
DaemonFCFlashNov 17 10:22
ender2070ever use samba?Nov 17 10:22
cubezzzI use GNU stuff all the time Nov 17 10:22
DaemonFCsome of their stuff works, some of it just stalls out and diesNov 17 10:23
ender2070ever use samba, ntfs-3g, or wine?Nov 17 10:23
DaemonFCHURD is their biggest failureNov 17 10:23
DaemonFCbut they've had othersNov 17 10:23
ender2070all reverse engineeredNov 17 10:23
ender2070from proprietary productsNov 17 10:23
DaemonFCand Wine isn't completeNov 17 10:23
cubezzzyes, sometimes reverse engineering is necessaryNov 17 10:23
DaemonFCand NTFS-3G can corrupt the volumeNov 17 10:24
ender2070wine is still reverse engineeringNov 17 10:24
ender2070microsoft doesn't really hand out copies of the windows source codeNov 17 10:24
ender2070neither does adobeNov 17 10:24
cubezzzdon't use NTFS thenNov 17 10:24
ender2070yeahNov 17 10:24
ender2070f*** windowsNov 17 10:24
cubezzzI said that in the 80's :)Nov 17 10:25
ender2070you're complaining about AT&T and comcast not liking linux but you're like the biggest pro-proprietary supporter hereNov 17 10:25
*cubezzz is ahead of the curveNov 17 10:25
DaemonFCI'm not pro-anything, I just don't really care as much I guessNov 17 10:25
ender2070but you're here? in #boycottnovellNov 17 10:25
DaemonFCas long as I can work around anything they throw at me, I don't careNov 17 10:25
ender2070you're pro-boycottnovellNov 17 10:26
DaemonFCmaybe when the day comes that they throw in something that's unkillableNov 17 10:26
DaemonFCwell, working around things like DRM is frustrating, but you only have to figure out what to do about it onceNov 17 10:26
ender2070not buying itNov 17 10:26
ender2070bamNov 17 10:26
cubezzzok, it's even simpler than that... you don't know what closed source software is really doingNov 17 10:27
cubezzzit could be phoning home to Redmond and you wouldn't knowNov 17 10:27
DaemonFCcubezzz: Packet inspection can give you a good ideaNov 17 10:27
ender2070hellNov 17 10:28
ender2070i have a book that tells me how to bind trojans to executablesNov 17 10:28
DaemonFCcubezzz: And what would it tell them to do? Send the "ZOMG!!!111 He's got porn and video games!" police?Nov 17 10:28
ender2070and i could bind a trojan your a/v will never findNov 17 10:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Identiquette is emerging http://tr.im/F854 !smc !plusNov 17 10:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Identiquette - StatusNet .::. Size~: 16.53 KBNov 17 10:28
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treacherous_ComputingNov 17 10:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 10:28
cubezzzDaemonFC, it could sent you the "kill packet" :)Nov 17 10:29
DaemonFCit's amazing how little of Trusted Computing ever materializedNov 17 10:29
cubezzzor just BSOD youNov 17 10:29
DaemonFCdespite all the racketNov 17 10:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Zune coming to the UK! Lets have a party! http://tinyurl.com/ylkjh9l #zune #microsoft #fail #apple #ipodNov 17 10:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Zune coming to the UK! Lets have a party! «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 37.23 KBNov 17 10:29
ender2070the racket prevented a lot of its damageNov 17 10:30
ender2070thats what people dont understand about free software advocacyNov 17 10:30
ender2070it worksNov 17 10:30
cubezzzthey could lock you in much tighter than they do nowNov 17 10:31
ender2070they could require signed binaries, using ms issued certificatesNov 17 10:31
DaemonFCnobody would go for thatNov 17 10:32
ender2070sure they wouldNov 17 10:32
DaemonFCthe PC industry would collapseNov 17 10:32
ender2070ms would just offer free as in beer licensesNov 17 10:32
DaemonFCnobody would buy themNov 17 10:32
ender2070they would take it slowNov 17 10:32
ender2070once everyone was using the free as in beer licenses, they create a new more priviledged version which requires moneyNov 17 10:33
ender2070then they phase out the oldNov 17 10:33
ender2070bamNov 17 10:33
cubezzzpirated doze? Give them sporadic BSODsNov 17 10:33
ender2070theres so many ways they could lock it downNov 17 10:33
cubezzzmake people pay, you got to figure they do thatNov 17 10:33
ender2070they make it part of visual studio's costNov 17 10:34
DaemonFCnever had it happenNov 17 10:34
ender2070locking out third party compilersNov 17 10:34
ender2070then they can say third party compilers can't make trusted binariesNov 17 10:34
ender2070a security excuse for lock inNov 17 10:34
cubezzzyou're computer could become a blackbox Nov 17 10:35
cubezzzjust some mysterious thing you don't understandNov 17 10:35
DaemonFCwell, it's notNov 17 10:35
cubezzzyourNov 17 10:35
ender2070or simply an applicance you have no control over like an oven or microwaveNov 17 10:35
DaemonFCwhy don't you complain about what has happenedNov 17 10:35
DaemonFCinstead of speculatingNov 17 10:35
ender2070we're just illustrating it could've been worseNov 17 10:36
DaemonFCan asteroid could hit tomorrowNov 17 10:36
DaemonFCbetter panic and sell all your stuff nowNov 17 10:36
ender2070the likelyness of an asteroid hit is very lowNov 17 10:36
ender2070vs the likelyness of msft doing shady tricks?Nov 17 10:36
cubezzzwell bluray would be a better example, I have no burning desire to reprogram my oven :)Nov 17 10:37
DaemonFCnot as shady as you saidNov 17 10:37
DaemonFCthey would be stopped by the government or the marketNov 17 10:37
ender2070nahNov 17 10:37
cubezzzeven so, why give them your money?Nov 17 10:37
ender2070apple hasntNov 17 10:37
schestowitzhttp://www.cio.co.uk/article/3206189/eu-objecting-to-oracle-sun-deal-wastes-tax-payers-money/?intcmp=HPF3Nov 17 10:37
cubezzzthey are so greedyNov 17 10:37
phIRCe-localTitle: EU objecting to Oracle Sun deal wastes tax payers money - In-Depth - CIO UK Magazine .::. Size~: 92.57 KBNov 17 10:37
ender2070i wouldnt put it past microsoftNov 17 10:37
DaemonFCApple doesn't make you sign your programsNov 17 10:37
ender2070dude yes they doNov 17 10:37
ender2070ever heard of the iphoneNov 17 10:37
cubezzzBallmer needs a new yacht and a new sub ;-)Nov 17 10:37
ender2070non-illegal onesNov 17 10:37
DaemonFCwhat about OS X?Nov 17 10:38
DaemonFCI've never seen a program that has to be signedNov 17 10:38
ender2070small devices like the iphone, are likely to replace your average persons pcNov 17 10:38
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ender2070iphoneNov 17 10:38
cubezzzyeah, I don't think the "PC" will disappearNov 17 10:38
ender2070i already gave you one exampleNov 17 10:38
ender2070the pc wont disappearNov 17 10:38
ender2070but you're average joe will be dicking around with iphone bsNov 17 10:39
cubezzzhandhelds will augment their existing boxNov 17 10:39
satiperahello, has anyone noticed the changes at the guardian technology site?Nov 17 10:39
oiaohmYou are aware that xbox360 and Wii both cannot contain GPL code.Nov 17 10:39
oiaohmBecause the code of the games on them cannot be released open source.Nov 17 10:39
ender2070oh yeah those are signed too iircNov 17 10:39
ender2070the ms onesNov 17 10:39
ender2070or is that ps3Nov 17 10:39
DaemonFCall consolesNov 17 10:40
ender2070you dont think ms wants windows to be as locked down as the 360?Nov 17 10:40
ender2070they could if they wouldNov 17 10:41
ender2070errNov 17 10:41
ender2070if they could they wouldNov 17 10:41
ender2070ms will use every dirty trick they think they can get away withNov 17 10:41
ender2070you know whatNov 17 10:42
ender2070its my birthday, why am i on irc at 5am arguing with some noobNov 17 10:42
satiperasmall step forward for fair coverage if anyone is interested?Nov 17 10:42
DaemonFCnoob, that's funnyNov 17 10:42
ender2070im gonna watch stargateNov 17 10:42
schestowitzMicrosoft/Apple shill Synder found a way to say "FOSS is terrible", again http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=3206407&blogid=4Nov 17 10:43
phIRCe-localTitle: Technology for free, and other terrible ideas - Blogs - PC Advisor .::. Size~: 70.28 KBNov 17 10:43
satiperawell I am sure you will notice in time.Nov 17 10:45
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DaemonFCschestowitz: He misquoted thatNov 17 10:46
DaemonFCit's "Don?t let the perfect be the enemy of the good."Nov 17 10:46
DaemonFC*don'tNov 17 10:46
cubezzzI was showing this guy what Linux could do the other dayNov 17 10:47
cubezzzhe had this Vista laptop...Nov 17 10:47
DaemonFCVista is too clunky to even considerNov 17 10:48
ender2070"Just ask the open source millionaires at MySQL if they think everything they produce should be free."Nov 17 10:48
DaemonFCUAC popups for everything aren't helping it anyNov 17 10:48
ender2070roflNov 17 10:48
DaemonFCI used Vista for a while, I always turned UAC off because it was so aggravatingNov 17 10:49
DaemonFCthey made it so too many things would set it off for you to take it seriously anymoreNov 17 10:50
cubezzz"you have come to a sad realization, cancel or allow?" :)Nov 17 10:50
DaemonFC*gasp*......allowNov 17 10:51
DaemonFCit's a lot less annoying nowNov 17 10:51
DaemonFCyou really only see it when you install softwareNov 17 10:51
ender2070can't really complain if you willingly volunteered for itNov 17 10:55
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schestowitzamarsh04: http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/326516/flinders_university_gives_open_source_bootNov 17 10:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Flinders University gives open source the boot - Flinders University, Google, hosted email, live@edu - Computerworld .::. Size~: 86.46 KBNov 17 10:57
ender2070http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd6HbBwg9iwNov 17 11:00
ender2070lolNov 17 11:00
oiaohmender2070: MS has not had the chance to lock down the PC as much as the 360.Nov 17 11:01
oiaohmThey have always depended on others to make there hardware ender2070.Nov 17 11:01
oiaohmPush for Media control TPM would have give MS the control.Nov 17 11:02
schestowitzender2070: the gal has a dude's voiceNov 17 11:02
ender2070yeah but steve ballmer would have an accident in his pants if ms got control like the 360Nov 17 11:02
ender2070for winNov 17 11:02
ender2070hey, if you don't like america then you can giiiit out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT0OqHr3wHQNov 17 11:03
ender2070Season 7 EP4Nov 17 11:06
oiaohmender2070: MS have made enough attempts at it.Nov 17 11:08
ender2070people are vigilantNov 17 11:08
oiaohmMS has not stoped attempting.Nov 17 11:08
ender2070noNov 17 11:09
ender2070you're rightNov 17 11:09
oiaohmThis control of the email systems of education is a far reaching move.Nov 17 11:09
ender2070however, as long as people keep vocal about it then they will keep failingNov 17 11:09
oiaohmThink about data mining it.Nov 17 11:09
oiaohmPerson who holds your data has power.Nov 17 11:09
oiaohmGets even worse what about making a student fail by making the emails of there assignments disappear.Nov 17 11:10
oiaohmIts pure power reason why MS is prepared to do the service so cheep.Nov 17 11:11
ender2070yeahNov 17 11:14
oiaohmXbox360 is a class example of how we would be threated If MS could be lord and master.Nov 17 11:15
oiaohmNo third party parts all would have to be aquired from MS.Nov 17 11:15
oiaohmIncluding storage media.Nov 17 11:15
oiaohmThat would really sux.Nov 17 11:15
ender2070yes exactlyNov 17 11:17
oiaohmMS has proved there evil a 1000 fold.Nov 17 11:17
oiaohmApple at least has some tollerence of third parties.Nov 17 11:17
oiaohmThe good thing about all this is MS sooner or latter will have to make products pay.Nov 17 11:19
Diablo-D3see today's penny arcade?Nov 17 11:19
oiaohmThey cannot keep on running loss making ventures for ever.Nov 17 11:19
oiaohmNop Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:19
ender2070yeahNov 17 11:19
Diablo-D3do itNov 17 11:19
ender2070its awesome how they lose so much money trying to stay relevantNov 17 11:20
Diablo-D3ender2070: its awesome how being relevant is vastly overratedNov 17 11:20
Diablo-D3so microsoft is shooting itself in both feetNov 17 11:20
ender2070heheNov 17 11:20
Diablo-D3see, heres the trickNov 17 11:21
oiaohmI just wish Linux would cross the techincally ready for small business state.Nov 17 11:21
Diablo-D3when everybody uses your product, being relevant is not something that you needNov 17 11:21
oiaohmThen we really could watch the fireworks.Nov 17 11:21
Diablo-D3oiaohm: actually, it already is ready for small businessNov 17 11:21
Diablo-D3windows never met that requirement.Nov 17 11:22
oiaohmSomething simple to replace MS SBS server.Nov 17 11:22
oiaohmSomething lots of distributions don't produce Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:22
Diablo-D3"replace"? no one uses anything that begins with ms and ends with server.Nov 17 11:22
oiaohmLot of small businesses do.Nov 17 11:23
DaemonFCunfortunately, a lot of companies doNov 17 11:23
Diablo-D3very few doNov 17 11:23
oiaohmIts that a dumb idiot can think they have a server set up Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:23
Diablo-D3I've never met one that does absolutely totally rely on _any_ microsoft techNov 17 11:23
oiaohmAnd working Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:23
oiaohmNote think Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:23
Diablo-D3they have a linux server running their shit, and windows clients connecting to itNov 17 11:23
Diablo-D3in almost every single caseNov 17 11:23
Diablo-D3the ones that dont simply dont have servers at allNov 17 11:24
oiaohmNot here Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:24
Diablo-D3or have linux clientsNov 17 11:24
oiaohmMost SBS here runs MS SBS.Nov 17 11:24
Diablo-D3you dont exactly live in the real world, oiaohm Nov 17 11:24
oiaohmI live in Australia Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:24
Diablo-D3you live in some sort of vaguely alternate reality that happened 10 years agoNov 17 11:24
oiaohmThe highest percentage of MS uptake in the world Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:24
Diablo-D3exactlyNov 17 11:24
oiaohmI am truthful about it.Nov 17 11:25
Diablo-D3au simply does not belong to the same reality everyone else in the world does.Nov 17 11:25
Diablo-D3Ive been saying this for yearsNov 17 11:25
oiaohmI know what is required to crack it here.Nov 17 11:25
ender2070oiaohm hasn't been the same since a dingo ate his babyNov 17 11:25
oiaohmender2070: don't go there.Nov 17 11:25
Diablo-D3ender2070: yes, but why didnt a dingo eat him when he was a baby?Nov 17 11:25
ender2070im kidding :PNov 17 11:25
Diablo-D3less bizzaro humans the betterNov 17 11:25
ender2070dont watch seinfeld?Nov 17 11:25
oiaohmI am a dog handler I had pet dingos.Nov 17 11:25
oiaohmMS sells there following items.Nov 17 11:26
ender2070http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghCTZF61ey0Nov 17 11:27
oiaohmCentral management.   Upgradable to a distributited network.   And windows client control.Nov 17 11:27
Diablo-D3oiaohm: except they dont offer any such thingNov 17 11:27
Diablo-D3windows server cant handle anything like thatNov 17 11:27
oiaohmADS servers can operate distributed.Nov 17 11:27
oiaohmEvil but you can do it.Nov 17 11:28
Diablo-D3you're implying they can operateNov 17 11:28
Diablo-D3which is a lieNov 17 11:28
Diablo-D3I'm not even linux evangilizing hereNov 17 11:28
oiaohmNot upgradeable.Nov 17 11:28
Diablo-D3windows simply doesnt work.Nov 17 11:28
oiaohmI did not say MS said stable Diablo-D3Nov 17 11:28
Diablo-D3businesses in the rest of the world have rejected windows for anything involving making moneyNov 17 11:28
amarsh04just looking that up, schestowitz... when I was at Flinders uni they used sunraysNov 17 11:28
oiaohmOur eductation system here was compromised Diablo-D3 as well.Nov 17 11:29
oiaohmLinux techs like me are rare Diablo-D3.Nov 17 11:29
Diablo-D3then why are you still living in the third world?Nov 17 11:29
DaemonFCDiablo-D3:  Australia is a third world country?Nov 17 11:30
DaemonFCthat's a new one on meNov 17 11:30
oiaohmIf you can break MS hold in Australia you will break some of the MS hold in the USA.Nov 17 11:30
amarsh04it's more than disappointing when universities lose control of their own it infrastructureNov 17 11:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @anivar: Identiquette is emerging http://tr.im/F854 #smc #plusNov 17 11:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Identiquette - StatusNet .::. Size~: 16.53 KBNov 17 11:31
oiaohmDiablo-D3: Some time do little check of what country lots of USA CEO's come from.Nov 17 11:32
amarsh04tragedy of loss of the true meaning of education comes to mindNov 17 11:32
oiaohmMS knew exactly what they were doing when they did and still do mass dumping for software on the Australian market.Nov 17 11:33
amarsh04similar to what was done with FOSS library systems, some universities should work more together on a Free mail platform that includes hot failover, redundancy and the  like rather than just ceding to google and microsoftNov 17 11:35
oiaohmIts money amarsh04Nov 17 11:35
oiaohmWhen I went threw the tafe system here.  They were shocked when they gave me a disk to take home with course work and returned to because I did not have a copy of windows to use it.Nov 17 11:36
DaemonFCI wonder how well MS Security Essentials is faringNov 17 11:36
DaemonFCcause I use itNov 17 11:36
oiaohmThen they offered me a free addemic version of windows.Nov 17 11:36
oiaohmThis is how far the system here is screwed.Nov 17 11:36
amarsh04yes, money now and money ultimately, but loss of ability to tailor in-house solutions... like what happened with peoplesoft and universitiesNov 17 11:37
oiaohmDaemonFC:  all secuirty tools are faring badly.Nov 17 11:38
Diablo-D3[06:30:42] <oiaohm> Diablo-D3: Some time do little check of what country lots of USA CEO's come from.Nov 17 11:39
DaemonFCmost of those free antivirus apps are really just nagware that want you to buy somethingNov 17 11:39
Diablo-D3lol CEOsNov 17 11:39
ender2070DaemonFC - so you use windows, i thought you stoppedNov 17 11:40
DaemonFCI have both on this systemNov 17 11:40
DaemonFCthat's not newNov 17 11:40
oiaohmDiablo-D3: who sets company policies.  Including stupid ones.Nov 17 11:40
DaemonFCI have Linux on my laptopNov 17 11:40
ender2070what was the big deal with comcast/at&tNov 17 11:40
Diablo-D3oiaohm: a group of people who simply dont matterNov 17 11:41
DaemonFCender2070: years ago when I only had one system and got it with no OSNov 17 11:41
oiaohmI use to run mixed.Nov 17 11:41
DaemonFCand ordered an Ubuntu CD from the library's internet terminalNov 17 11:41
ender2070ohhh that makes more senseNov 17 11:41
oiaohmThese days I don't.Nov 17 11:41
DaemonFCused it for a few years exclusivelyNov 17 11:41
ender2070so that means later on you purchased windowsNov 17 11:42
DaemonFCender2070: Yeah, I had XP from about 2001-2005, used Ubuntu from mid 2005 to like 2008Nov 17 11:42
DaemonFCI actually went through two systems with XP, cause they both failedNov 17 11:43
ender2070when did u buy vista and win7Nov 17 11:43
ender2070thats like over 1g to msftNov 17 11:43
DaemonFCVista was 2008, that system failed this yearNov 17 11:43
DaemonFCthis new one came with Vista and a Windows 7 upgrade couponNov 17 11:43
ender2070coupon or full oem?Nov 17 11:44
DaemonFCcoupon code to redeem at Microsoft's upgrade websiteNov 17 11:44
DaemonFCthe disc is a full OEMNov 17 11:44
DaemonFCI used it to wipe the disc of Vista then install itselfNov 17 11:44
ender2070i purchased an i7 920 from intel during a program for $160Nov 17 11:44
ender2070and it included that stuffNov 17 11:45
DaemonFCender2070: Not a match for the Phenom II X4 945Nov 17 11:45
DaemonFCwhich runs about the sameNov 17 11:45
ender2070basicly, 50% off a cpu and a free copy of vista and win7Nov 17 11:45
DaemonFCit included a free copy of Windows 7?Nov 17 11:45
ender2070amd sucksNov 17 11:45
ender2070sorry to sayNov 17 11:45
DaemonFCender2070: I like my CPU :)Nov 17 11:45
cubezzzhow come?Nov 17 11:45
ender2070yeah it was supposed to be a couponNov 17 11:45
ender2070they sent me a full oem disk for ultimate 64Nov 17 11:46
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ender2070boosting their numbers i suspectNov 17 11:46
DaemonFCfor buying a $160 CPU?Nov 17 11:46
ender2070yesNov 17 11:46
ender2070intel retail edgeNov 17 11:46
DaemonFCI got stuck with Home PremiumNov 17 11:46
DaemonFC:(Nov 17 11:46
ender2070its for people who sell their stuff at retail storesNov 17 11:46
ender2070you do quizes and tests all the timeNov 17 11:46
DaemonFCI went back to AMDNov 17 11:47
DaemonFCIntel boards and CPUs fail too oftenNov 17 11:47
ender2070i see it the other way aroundNov 17 11:47
ender2070amd stuff fails a lot cause it runs so damn hotNov 17 11:47
cubezzzlolNov 17 11:47
ender2070most customers dont take good care of their pcNov 17 11:48
DaemonFCIntel just cuts too many corners, I thinkNov 17 11:48
cubezzzwell this 11 year old intel board is still workingNov 17 11:48
DaemonFCI've never had an Intel system last more than 3 yearsNov 17 11:48
ender2070intel cuts no cornersNov 17 11:48
ender2070they speed bin everything to make top dollar on it allNov 17 11:48
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ender2070instead of messing around with native quads, they matured their fabs instead and waited for amd to bug test it allNov 17 11:50
ender2070i7 is a rip off of the phenom 1Nov 17 11:50
ender2070but its so much betterNov 17 11:50
ender2070then you got AMD selling defective quad cores as dual core and tripple core cpu's with defective cores disabledNov 17 11:50
DaemonFCthe Phenom II is much betterNov 17 11:51
DaemonFCfaster too, more L3 cacheNov 17 11:52
ender2070it is better than the phenom 1Nov 17 11:52
ender2070gotta love TLB bugsNov 17 11:52
DaemonFCwhich is why I held off buying the original PhenomNov 17 11:52
DaemonFCwhy buy something just to run it 10% slower than it should be?Nov 17 11:52
DaemonFCyou'd have to feel cheatedNov 17 11:52
ender2070yeahNov 17 11:52
ender2070i've been fixing pc's for like 10 yearsNov 17 11:53
ender2070after phenom, AMD lost itNov 17 11:53
ender2070intel sucked bad beforeNov 17 11:53
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ender2070not p3 1.3 tulatin, but p4 netburst was aweful and pentium d's were horrificNov 17 11:53
cubezzzI've had good luck with intelNov 17 11:54
DaemonFCthe bug must be rarely triggered if it took so long to find itNov 17 11:54
ender2070pentium d = two pentium 4's thrown onto a single dyeNov 17 11:54
cubezzzthey did invent the microprocessor after allNov 17 11:54
ender2070pentium d = source of global warmingNov 17 11:54
DaemonFCender2070: Did it have Hyperthreading though?Nov 17 11:54
ender2070they didnt invent the microprocessorNov 17 11:54
DaemonFC*laughs*Nov 17 11:54
ender2070pentium d? i dont think soNov 17 11:54
cubezzzwhat is the best cpu?Nov 17 11:54
cubezzzhmmm? 4004?Nov 17 11:54
DaemonFCcubezzz: Fastest or best value for the money?Nov 17 11:55
cubezzzmost reliable, lowest power useNov 17 11:55
oiaohmender2070: amds seam to tollerate warmer areas better than intel.Nov 17 11:55
DaemonFCIntel i7 for speed, Phenom II for better valueNov 17 11:55
ender2070the pentagon invented microprocessors and licensed it to intel while they were working togetherNov 17 11:55
ender2070thats why intel has such an unfair advantageNov 17 11:55
cubezzzreally?Nov 17 11:55
oiaohmNot really ender2070.Nov 17 11:55
DaemonFCthe fastest i7 is only about 15% faster than the fastest Phenom II, but it costs over twice as muchNov 17 11:55
ender2070pretty muchNov 17 11:56
cubezzzwikipedia seems to lack this knowledgeNov 17 11:56
DaemonFCso I'd say Intel is a bad value even if they have the fastest chipNov 17 11:56
oiaohmAt the start of the cpu age many cpu types where used.Nov 17 11:56
oiaohmSparcs PPC... ender2070Nov 17 11:56
ender2070http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2008/07/intels-larrabee-gpu-based-on-secret-pentagon-tech-sorta.arsNov 17 11:56
phIRCe-localTitle: Intel's Larrabee GPU based on secret Pentagon tech, sorta [Updated] - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 41.78 KBNov 17 11:56
oiaohmAll used by goverments ender2070Nov 17 11:56
oiaohmThe change was cheep OS's.Nov 17 11:56
cubezzzok, if we say we want: power cpu, fpu, low power, good price, then what is the best cpu?Nov 17 11:56
ender2070im just talking about x86 and intelNov 17 11:57
oiaohmAmd design line is far more powereffective that what larrabee is going to beNov 17 11:57
ender2070and that intel didnt invent themNov 17 11:57
oiaohmMerge the translation units.Nov 17 11:57
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cubezzzI want a green machine :)Nov 17 11:58
ender2070if anything, it was reverse engineered from *spooky* alien technology from area 51 *spooky*Nov 17 11:58
oiaohmlarabee still has individual x86 translators.Nov 17 11:58
cubezzzok, I never heard about this "pentagon invented the microprocessor" stuff :)Nov 17 11:58
ender2070i know they worked with intel on the pentiumNov 17 11:59
oiaohmHave you seen tile chips ender2070Nov 17 11:59
schestowitzHeh. Intel didn't invent microsprocessorsNov 17 11:59
schestowitzIt wasn't an overnight thingNov 17 11:59
ender2070i never said intel invented themNov 17 11:59
schestowitzIt's like the whole "first plane" and "first computer" thingNov 17 11:59
DaemonFCmust be why Microsoft included WARP10 in Windows 7Nov 17 11:59
ender2070im saying intel didnt even get the tech till they were helpedNov 17 12:00
DaemonFCto take advantage of this new x86-based GPUNov 17 12:00
oiaohmhttp://www.tilera.com/products/TILE-Gx.php  The larrabee design is not even unique ender2070Nov 17 12:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Tilera Corporation .::. Size~: 18.37 KBNov 17 12:00
schestowitzTubes... transistors... semi conductors...Nov 17 12:00
schestowitzIt's all evolutionaryNov 17 12:00
cubezzzok, so who or what invented the microprocessor?Nov 17 12:00
schestowitzSome people just try to hoard credit for enhancements they make to stuff they /LEARNED/ from othersNov 17 12:00
schestowitzhttp://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/16/asus_tosh_notebook/Nov 17 12:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Asus to make grab for Toshiba's notebook biz? • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 21.61 KBNov 17 12:01
oiaohmender2070: AMD new cpu designs are releated designs to ATI graphics cards ender2070Nov 17 12:02
oiaohmWhat would I want Proto type USA mil tech not real world tested.Nov 17 12:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Having DNS issues on the server since last night... frustrating.Nov 17 12:02
ender2070based on flying saucers? hell yesNov 17 12:02
oiaohmOr designs that have been tested in real world inside inch of file.Nov 17 12:02
oiaohmLOlNov 17 12:02
ender2070lolNov 17 12:03
oiaohmI would hope flying saucers would have far more advanced tech than that.Nov 17 12:03
ender2070not if they crashed hereNov 17 12:03
oiaohmMost likely problity cpus for high power effectiveness.Nov 17 12:03
ender2070but even soNov 17 12:03
oiaohmNote probility cpus cannot run x86 code.Nov 17 12:04
ender2070the common saying is that the military is always 50 years aheadNov 17 12:04
oiaohmHeck most of our existince stock pile of stuff would be crap.Nov 17 12:04
oiaohmender2070:  not true.Nov 17 12:04
oiaohmMil is not 50 years ahead any more.Nov 17 12:04
oiaohmNot in IT.Nov 17 12:04
ender2070http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/09sep/RIR-090910.phpNov 17 12:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Red Ice Radio - Andrew D. Basiago - Project Pegasus, Time Travel, Teleportation & The Chronovisor Device .::. Size~: 20.27 KBNov 17 12:05
cubezzzok Ray Holt is mentionedNov 17 12:06
cubezzzI guess it makes sense the military would have things firstNov 17 12:06
cubezzzsecret projects and all that sort of thingNov 17 12:07
ender2070yesNov 17 12:07
ender2070if they gave it to us right away, evil countries might figure it outNov 17 12:07
MinceRlolNov 17 12:08
MinceRevil countries like the USA? :>Nov 17 12:08
schestowitzhttp://www.pass-scheme.org.uk/Nov 17 12:08
schestowitz"The Proof of Age Standards Scheme (PASS) is the UK's national guarantee scheme for proof-of-age cards."Nov 17 12:08
ender2070this one is interesting tooNov 17 12:09
ender2070http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/10oct/RIR-091004.phpNov 17 12:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Red Ice Radio - Cliff High - Web Bot & Predicting the Future .::. Size~: 15.68 KBNov 17 12:09
ender2070the web bot indexes the web using ai and tries to predict the futureNov 17 12:09
ender2070iircNov 17 12:09
cubezzzas long as they don't call it skynet :)Nov 17 12:09
ender2070hahahaNov 17 12:10
oiaohmthe main reason why AI like skynet don't exist is AI designs try to model human into a normal CPU.Nov 17 12:10
oiaohmDrop wanting human and attempt to create a pure logical creature and you can do it.Nov 17 12:11
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ender2070i think microsoft was saying that robots are the next thingNov 17 12:11
oiaohmNot that I recommend creating a AI like that.Nov 17 12:11
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oiaohmThe next thing is something MS does not want to predict.Nov 17 12:12
cubezzzTerminator with Windows Vista :)Nov 17 12:12
ender2070http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/robotics/aa731535.aspxNov 17 12:12
ender2070http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=a-robot-in-every-homeNov 17 12:12
oiaohmhttp://reprap.org  Self producing machines.Nov 17 12:12
phIRCe-localTitle: A Robot in Every Home: Scientific American .::. Size~: 97.76 KBNov 17 12:12
phIRCe-localTitle:   WebHome < Main < Reprap .::. Size~: 19.32 KBNov 17 12:13
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ender2070blue screen of death has a new meaning ;)Nov 17 12:13
*cubezzz looks at his roombaNov 17 12:13
oiaohmMS has only got part of it.Nov 17 12:13
ender2070imagine the robot is saving your life, but then the OS crashesNov 17 12:13
oiaohmJapan for years have had factory making robots.Nov 17 12:13
ender2070or hackers reprogram your robot to kill youNov 17 12:13
oiaohmToo expensive for the normal house hold.Nov 17 12:13
ender2070using some insecure windows serviceNov 17 12:13
oiaohmRobot in every home is already true.Nov 17 12:14
*DaemonFC reprograms the Roomba to vacuum cubezzz to deathNov 17 12:14
DaemonFCB-)Nov 17 12:14
oiaohmJust not moveable forms.Nov 17 12:14
DaemonFClife sucks and death sucks even moreNov 17 12:14
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cubezzzI'm not sure you can reprogram roombas, otherwise I''d put Linux on there :)Nov 17 12:14
ender2070i dont think we'll have household robotsNov 17 12:14
ender2070unless they are locked down in some wayNov 17 12:14
DaemonFCWhy? So it could do everything but vacuum?Nov 17 12:15
oiaohmWe will have house hold factories first ender2070.Nov 17 12:15
DaemonFCyou could access it through SSH though, that would be coolNov 17 12:15
ender2070too many people would reprogram them to rob banks, stores and peopleNov 17 12:15
oiaohmWhat is the point having a house hold robot if it breaks down on the weekend and you cannot repair it.Nov 17 12:15
ender2070i would have an army of invincible robots with gunsNov 17 12:15
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oiaohmAlready exists ender2070Nov 17 12:15
cubezzzinstead of vaccuuming it could be a mobile pizza maker :)Nov 17 12:15
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ender2070oiaohm - yes but i need these robotsNov 17 12:16
DaemonFCoiaohm: That's when the robot repairing robots go to workNov 17 12:16
oiaohmCurrently poor targeting ender2070Nov 17 12:16
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ender2070very poor targetingNov 17 12:16
oiaohmAnd cannot repair self ender2070Nov 17 12:16
ender2070http://xkcd.com/652/Nov 17 12:16
phIRCe-localTitle: xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe .::. Size~: 8.52 KBNov 17 12:16
cubezzzroomba, I command you to "terminate" the dirtNov 17 12:16
oiaohmReally metal storm systems are very good at hitting targets ender2070Nov 17 12:16
oiaohmJust very poor at picking friend from foe.Nov 17 12:17
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ender2070im not really even concerned with ai eitherNov 17 12:17
ender2070surrogates had a good ideaNov 17 12:17
oiaohmWe already have ai controlled weapons systems.Nov 17 12:17
cubezzzthere doesn't seem to really be AI Nov 17 12:18
cubezzzcan a computer program itself?Nov 17 12:18
ender2070what im doubting is that we'll get any dangerous robots for civilian useNov 17 12:18
ender2070even ones that could be programmed for itNov 17 12:18
ender2070ROBOTS!Nov 17 12:18
ender2070i love emNov 17 12:18
oiaohmhttp://www.army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=2730  << Who needs mine fields ender2070Nov 17 12:19
phIRCe-localTitle: Army Guide - ADWS, Grenade launcher .::. Size~: 32.39 KBNov 17 12:19
ender2070not badNov 17 12:20
ender2070i was a huge fan of the terminator moviesNov 17 12:20
ender2070which is why i like robots so muchNov 17 12:21
ender2070the tv show is pretty cool toolNov 17 12:21
ender2070tooNov 17 12:21
oiaohmThose are being track mounted ender2070Nov 17 12:22
oiaohmYep mobile mine field.Nov 17 12:22
oiaohmNothing like the terminator battles.Nov 17 12:23
ender2070:(Nov 17 12:23
oiaohmThese things spreed out around you by stealth then level the complete area.Nov 17 12:23
ender2070ever seen the game crysis?Nov 17 12:23
oiaohmTank armor is worthless.Nov 17 12:23
oiaohmThose metal storm boxs 4 of them can level 4 block area when spreed out.Nov 17 12:24
ender2070http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,683077/US-Military-develops-Crysis-like-Nanosuit/News/Nov 17 12:24
phIRCe-localTitle: US Military develops Crysis like Nanosuit  - battle suit, battle armor, Crysis, Nano Suit - PC Games Hardware .::. Size~: 40.59 KBNov 17 12:24
ender2070I read about this back in 2002Nov 17 12:25
ender2070before crysis was out, and when I played that game i was like "OH this is military recruiting for sure, getting people used to the idea of the suits features"Nov 17 12:25
oiaohmAustralia has equal ender2070Nov 17 12:25
oiaohmBut is basically pointless against metal storm systems.Nov 17 12:25
oiaohmThat gun the solider is holding is a metal storm style weapon.Nov 17 12:26
ender2070the suit can control drones, mini tanks and booby trapsNov 17 12:26
ender2070theres also some device that can tap into your unconscious mind and it displays stuff on the screen that its noticing Nov 17 12:28
oiaohmYes batwins here can be controled that way.Nov 17 12:28
ender2070its supposed to make you notice things your mind is trying to tell youNov 17 12:30
oiaohmMixture of techs have been tried.Nov 17 12:30
oiaohmCamara on gun site so you don't have to lift it up to see were targeting.Nov 17 12:30
ender2070it was like some helmet and it used visual indicatorsNov 17 12:30
oiaohmThose exist ender2070Nov 17 12:31
ender2070i knowNov 17 12:31
oiaohmBut they are most being rendered useless by tech like this http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/82/166/Nov 17 12:31
oiaohmRobot firing 40 mm shells auto targeting.Nov 17 12:31
ender2070oh i dont think thats the same thing im talking aboutNov 17 12:32
ender2070its not a gun or anythingNov 17 12:32
oiaohmSolider cannot wear enough body armor to live against that.Nov 17 12:32
ender2070you know how you might be looking for something right in front of your faceNov 17 12:32
ender2070it would show youNov 17 12:32
oiaohmSo cyber enhanced is worthless.Nov 17 12:32
ender2070cyber enchanced has different goals im sureNov 17 12:33
ender2070i doubt they would get put on the front linesNov 17 12:34
ender2070if they died, the enemy would have their suitsNov 17 12:34
ender2070they would likely have elite teams such as navy seals making use of thisNov 17 12:34
oiaohmender2070: worthless.Nov 17 12:35
ender2070robots cant do everythingNov 17 12:35
oiaohmiraq war showed us how worthless.Nov 17 12:35
ender2070covert opsNov 17 12:35
oiaohmWhat do you think min hovercrafts with blocks of C4 attached are good for.  Particulary when they are a kids toy model.Nov 17 12:35
oiaohmOr other forms of hidden robots ender2070Nov 17 12:36
ender2070im thinking spies would be a good useNov 17 12:36
oiaohmAgain why put a spy in the building.Nov 17 12:36
oiaohmMost of that can be got from range these days.Nov 17 12:36
oiaohmYou cannot level a building if your spy is in it.Nov 17 12:37
oiaohmIf the spy is human.Nov 17 12:37
ender2070who says you wouldNov 17 12:37
ender2070your not always at war with a country you send a spy intoNov 17 12:37
oiaohmIf the spy is not human you can.Nov 17 12:37
oiaohmWhy limit you battle field options ender2070Nov 17 12:37
ender2070exactly?Nov 17 12:38
ender2070the suits arent totally uselessNov 17 12:38
ender2070they would have some purposeNov 17 12:38
oiaohmNo purposeNov 17 12:38
ender2070for one, the ottawa convention requires manned roboticsNov 17 12:39
oiaohmEvery place you can use them you are placing soldiers in way.Nov 17 12:39
oiaohmDid australia sign that ender2070Nov 17 12:39
oiaohmNo we did not ender2070Nov 17 12:39
ender2070oh, so?Nov 17 12:39
oiaohmWe don't have that limit ender2070Nov 17 12:39
ender2070you dont go to war eitherNov 17 12:39
oiaohmhttp://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/publications/scientific_record.php?record=2255  << Our advanced solider system.Nov 17 12:40
phIRCe-localTitle: Defence Science and Technology Organisation (DSTO) .::. Size~: 10.17 KBNov 17 12:40
ender2070it surely would be a waste for u guysNov 17 12:40
oiaohmMostly worthless these days ender2070Nov 17 12:40
oiaohmNumber one we don't have enough soliders to hold australia.Nov 17 12:41
oiaohmAnd there is not enough water to support enough soliders to hold australia.Nov 17 12:41
oiaohmSo that leaves only one thing robots.Nov 17 12:41
ender2070ahhNov 17 12:42
ender2070depending on robots is dangerousNov 17 12:42
oiaohmhttp://www.defence.gov.au/news/armynews/editions/1076/features/feature02.htm  << Basically operational level examples of the tech you were talking about ender2070Nov 17 12:43
phIRCe-localTitle: Army - The Soldiers' Newspaper .::. Size~: 21.61 KBNov 17 12:43
oiaohmYes I know the tech you were refering to.  But with robots with metal storm weapons have basically taken away the advantage of doing this.Nov 17 12:45
ender2070thats a diet versionNov 17 12:45
ender2070the us version has nanite armourNov 17 12:45
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ender2070it tells medics exactly how you are wounded for exampleNov 17 12:45
ender2070you guys might not need itNov 17 12:45
ender2070but anyone who signed the ottawa convetion willNov 17 12:45
oiaohmMetal storm cuts threw nanite armour like its not there.Nov 17 12:46
ender2070they dont have to face metal stormNov 17 12:46
oiaohmIts worthless.Nov 17 12:46
ender2070are you guys secretly planning a war with the rest of the world or something?Nov 17 12:46
oiaohmno we are stick of losing soliders.Nov 17 12:46
ender2070the third world doesnt have metal stormNov 17 12:47
oiaohmThinking metal storm was invented here.Nov 17 12:47
ender2070its something they'll face upon invading AustraliaNov 17 12:47
ender2070not iranNov 17 12:47
ender2070or whereverNov 17 12:47
oiaohmAnd metal storm is pure speed of fire that stuffs nanite armor.Nov 17 12:48
ender2070and?Nov 17 12:48
ender2070our enemies dont have it, enough saidNov 17 12:48
oiaohmSmart soliders could equal it.Nov 17 12:48
oiaohmJust lay bigger traps.Nov 17 12:48
oiaohmThe armor is worthless.Nov 17 12:49
ender2070says youNov 17 12:49
DaemonFCmost of our enemies have child soldiers, citizen militia, or a bunch of idiots with bombs strapped to themNov 17 12:49
DaemonFCnothing like a professional militaryNov 17 12:49
oiaohm4 claymors set off will also kill anyone wearign it ender2070Nov 17 12:49
oiaohmIf they are set off combind.Nov 17 12:49
ender2070then your robots are overkill against child soldiers, citizen militia and idiots with bombsNov 17 12:49
oiaohmAnd that is a really old weapon that everyone has.Nov 17 12:50
oiaohmIf we loss a few robots what is the problem ender2070Nov 17 12:50
oiaohmWe can build more.Nov 17 12:50
schestowitzRecycle metalNov 17 12:50
ender2070your surrounded by waterNov 17 12:50
schestowitzThere is no "Dead" robotNov 17 12:50
ender2070sure your guys dont need it but you doNov 17 12:50
ender2070guns dont*Nov 17 12:50
schestowitzThere is only a disassembled oneNov 17 12:50
oiaohmWe find it funny we have small monitoring drones.Nov 17 12:51
ender2070your enemy outranges you and blockades all suppliesNov 17 12:51
schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/bryanglick/status/5685234101 Heh, editor leaves. Old media is dying. \o/Nov 17 12:51
phIRCe-localTitle: Twitter / Bryan Glick: And so it ends. After 9.5  ... .::. Size~: 9.72 KBNov 17 12:51
oiaohmUsa spend hours trying to work out how to make them land.Nov 17 12:51
oiaohmOurs land so simpleyNov 17 12:51
oiaohmJust string a rope virtical and they fly past and hook on and spin to a stop.Nov 17 12:52
ender2070what happens when they fry your capital building from space with lasers?Nov 17 12:52
ender2070or any orbital weaponsNov 17 12:52
oiaohmIts a pitty the australian designed intercontental weapon platforms never got armed.Nov 17 12:53
oiaohmThey got built.Nov 17 12:53
ender2070orbital weapons were designed to bypass thatNov 17 12:53
oiaohmEach platform was design to fire 50 misslies into orbital.Nov 17 12:53
ender2070missle shield is for icbmsNov 17 12:53
oiaohmRapidly.Nov 17 12:54
ender2070lolNov 17 12:54
oiaohmFaster than missle shield can respond.Nov 17 12:54
ender2070yeah bsNov 17 12:54
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oiaohmNop.Nov 17 12:54
ender2070i highly doubt you guys have higher tech than usaNov 17 12:54
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oiaohmLOL>Nov 17 12:54
ender2070troll attackNov 17 12:54
oiaohmJust like your stealth bombers are not stealth.Nov 17 12:55
oiaohmThey make too much electromagic noise.Nov 17 12:55
ender2070<-- not americanNov 17 12:55
ender2070our best plane was shut down by americans :(Nov 17 12:55
oiaohmUSA was also shocked in the iraq war that australian boats were tracking them at 300 kms.Nov 17 12:55
oiaohmUSA tech is not great.Nov 17 12:56
oiaohmThey always fuck up somewhere in the design.Nov 17 12:56
oiaohmThe thing is not all our tech is higher.Nov 17 12:57
oiaohmSmall drones are harder to detect and take down.  Also cheaper to make ender2070.Nov 17 12:57
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ender2070makes senseNov 17 12:58
oiaohmOur small drones are made from model plain parts with a few extra control features.Nov 17 12:58
ender2070LOLNov 17 12:58
ender2070you guys are just planning on invading new zealand arent youNov 17 12:58
oiaohmNot advanced tech.Nov 17 12:58
oiaohmMost important thing is effective use of tech ender2070.Nov 17 12:58
oiaohmThen since they land by virtical catch wire they don't need complex landing control systems either.Nov 17 12:59
oiaohmJust as long as they catch on the wire not run into it.Nov 17 12:59
oiaohmThink about how much work the USA did on there big drones so that they could land.Nov 17 13:00
ender2070just hope they aren't windows powered robotsNov 17 13:00
oiaohmScary part is some of the australian mil tech is controled by windows PC's.Nov 17 13:00
ender2070so a hacker could turn them against youNov 17 13:01
oiaohmNot really hacker would mostly trip against australian operational locks.Nov 17 13:01
oiaohmBit like the second iraq war with the australian pilots getting inside 20 seconds of bombing command and control.Nov 17 13:02
ender2070nothing it completely secureNov 17 13:02
oiaohmDue to USA air controlling trying to directly order australian fighter to bomb a target instead of suggesting targets.Nov 17 13:02
oiaohmOperational control options choose the wrong one it will turn on the one who gave the order.Nov 17 13:03
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oiaohmOf course nothing is completely secure.Nov 17 13:04
oiaohmbut you can make it russian rollete for anyone who gets in ender2070Nov 17 13:04
schestowitzAussie police has already been OWn3dNov 17 13:04
schestowitzCause they ran WIndowsNov 17 13:04
schestowitzPeople are tamed to think of the police as invinsibleNov 17 13:04
schestowitzHere too police Web site get crackedNov 17 13:04
schestowitzThose out on the beat are probably as smart of the WIndows admins who run the sitesNov 17 13:05
schestowitzThese are not some 'joy' sites, it's critical govt stuffNov 17 13:05
oiaohmender2070: the russian rollete factor of australian command and control designs is whey people who take our command and command systems really don't have much.Nov 17 13:06
oiaohmReally the last place you would want to nuke in australia is the cap.Nov 17 13:07
oiaohmAfter you do that australian mil would be rogue.Nov 17 13:07
ender2070doomsday machine?Nov 17 13:07
ender2070russia had one of thoseNov 17 13:08
ender2070in the even they got nukedNov 17 13:08
ender2070eventNov 17 13:08
DaemonFCthat new Star Trek movie was pretty goodNov 17 13:10
DaemonFCI downloaded it and just finished watching itNov 17 13:10
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/old/content/2006/02/6103.arsNov 17 13:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Survey says: music costs too much, and it sucks - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 40.99 KBNov 17 13:11
DaemonFChahaNov 17 13:11
ender2070cept in CanadaNov 17 13:12
ender2070lolNov 17 13:12
DaemonFCuh huhNov 17 13:12
DaemonFCit costs more thereNov 17 13:12
ender2070not reallyNov 17 13:12
ender2070if you buy it sureNov 17 13:12
ender2070downloading only, is legal hereNov 17 13:12
ender2070for musicNov 17 13:13
DaemonFCcause your corrupt government is charging more for each blank CD-R to hand out to the recording industryNov 17 13:13
DaemonFCso nyaaahNov 17 13:13
ender2070corrupt?Nov 17 13:13
DaemonFCyesNov 17 13:13
ender2070nahNov 17 13:13
ender2070its a good ideaNov 17 13:13
DaemonFCsomeone is corrupt if you get taxed on blank CDs to give a handout to Big MusicNov 17 13:13
ender2070its better than the risk of lawsuitsNov 17 13:13
DaemonFCwhat if you were buying that CD to burn personal files, creative commons music, Linux, etc?Nov 17 13:13
ender2070i dont careNov 17 13:13
DaemonFCthe industry still gets you moneyNov 17 13:14
ender2070im not a stringy anti tax personNov 17 13:14
DaemonFCyou're forced to give money to a crime syndicateNov 17 13:14
ender2070its a few centsNov 17 13:14
DaemonFCit's the principle of the thingNov 17 13:14
ender2070nahNov 17 13:14
ender2070im not right wing, im not anti tax i dont care, and most canadians dont eitherNov 17 13:14
DaemonFCit's got nothing to do with thatNov 17 13:14
DaemonFCthe tax doesn't go to the government, it goes to the music cartel so they can pay lawyers to sue peopleNov 17 13:14
ender2070they cant sue anyone for downloading music hereNov 17 13:15
DaemonFCthat should deeply offend anyoneNov 17 13:15
DaemonFCthey can sue you for sharing it thoughNov 17 13:15
ender2070yeah but smart people dont have uploads onNov 17 13:15
DaemonFCso if nobody has uploads on, what keeps the swarm alive and well?Nov 17 13:16
ender2070americansNov 17 13:16
DaemonFCso the crime syndicate wins either wayNov 17 13:16
oiaohmender2070:  drop a nuke in the wrong place of australian and there is a enough nuke fuel there to be a doomday weapon.Nov 17 13:16
ender2070nahNov 17 13:16
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ender2070we dont have the RIAANov 17 13:16
ender2070we have the CRIA, and they dont sue people because they cantNov 17 13:16
ender2070think about this for a minute, because they are getting screwedNov 17 13:17
ender2070you buy a blank cd-r for $1, and you get a $30 cd, you save $29Nov 17 13:17
oiaohmhttp://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/05/metal_storm_works_on_irobot.html  << What do you think of this irobot ender2070Nov 17 13:17
phIRCe-localTitle: Metal Storm iRobot - Metal Storm works on iRobot .::. Size~: 32.91 KBNov 17 13:17
*Diablo-D3 does the robotNov 17 13:17
ender2070you can get 50-100 pack spindles cheaperNov 17 13:17
ender2070$15 for 50 DVD disks, roughlyNov 17 13:17
ender2070cds even cheaperNov 17 13:18
ender2070music cds in the store, $20-30Nov 17 13:18
oiaohmOrdering by the case is even cheaper again.Nov 17 13:18
ender2070yupNov 17 13:18
oiaohm6 100 pack spindles to a box.Nov 17 13:18
DaemonFCI don't get why iTunes sells so many tracksNov 17 13:18
ender2070even if people who dont burn music are paying the tax, theres enough money not going to themNov 17 13:18
DaemonFCwell, most of the tracks on an ipod will be illegal copies anywayNov 17 13:19
Diablo-D3depends what brandNov 17 13:19
*Diablo-D3 only buys taiyo yudenNov 17 13:19
DaemonFCbut I don't get why most people don't leave Apple and buy their music from Amazon or LalaNov 17 13:19
DaemonFCsame music and it's 10-40 cents cheaper per trackNov 17 13:20
DaemonFCthat adds upNov 17 13:20
DaemonFCyou buy 1,000 tracks, you may have saved as much as $40Nov 17 13:20
ender2070the artists themselves are getting dick all regardless, even if Canada was just like the states, the artists would get the same 5 cents per cd and the CRIA will always take the restNov 17 13:20
DaemonFCI try to get the best deal on what I buy, ipod users obviously don'tNov 17 13:20
ender2070the best thing anyone can do for the artists themselves, is pay them directly for the music you getNov 17 13:21
DaemonFCI know the average person will buy a few albums a monthNov 17 13:21
ender2070i've sent weird al some moneyNov 17 13:22
DaemonFCyou could easily save like $40-$50 a year going to other storesNov 17 13:22
ender2070i like his stuffNov 17 13:22
cubezzzLFS live cd is interestingNov 17 13:22
DaemonFCyeah, I really wish more artists would go rogueNov 17 13:22
cubezzzworks good on panasonic toughbook anywayNov 17 13:22
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzNov 17 13:22
ender2070if i bought weird al's album he might have seen $1 tops, but me sending him a cheque was like buying 20Nov 17 13:22
*schestowitz has kicked Winstrons from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 17 13:22
DaemonFCeveryone would win if they did, cause they could sell their music cheaper and make more moneyNov 17 13:22
schestowitzWinstrons is a mutex nymshift, ban-evading againNov 17 13:23
schestowitzgtgNov 17 13:23
DaemonFCMutex?Nov 17 13:23
schestowitzYesNov 17 13:23
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to wallcNov 17 13:23
DaemonFCWhat did he do that was so bad?Nov 17 13:23
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzNov 17 13:23
DaemonFCI must have missed whatever it wasNov 17 13:23
schestowitzwallc is in charge hereNov 17 13:23
schestowitzShe'll be a ruthless dictator :-DNov 17 13:23
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrlVX2uv0JA&feature=related  << some of the metal storm expermental weapons are worring.Nov 17 13:23
DaemonFCI get to mosey on over to the beauty college here in a few minutesNov 17 13:24
DaemonFClast time I thought I'd be clever and go to Fiesta, they wanted $14 just to cut my hairNov 17 13:25
DaemonFCI'd rather let a student experiment on me for $5, cause I've never walked out of there with it messed upNov 17 13:26
DaemonFCit's a simple enough cutNov 17 13:26
cubezzzxfce ftw (sort of)Nov 17 13:26
ThistleWebwell, I for one welcome our new overladyNov 17 13:28
ThistleWeb:pNov 17 13:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @bakoh: Distribution of FOSS goes down to the human network. vs traditional distibution for proprietary software. Michuki Mwangi, #igf09Nov 17 13:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RD @pranesh_prakash Excellent set of resources on Access to Knowledge, from @YaleISP: http://tr.im/F8At #igf09Nov 17 13:32
phIRCe-localTitle:   Access to Knowledge Research Series :  .::. Size~: 32.75 KBNov 17 13:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @pranesh_prakash: 2 studies on #a2k from Brazil (http://tr.im/F8tI)and SA (http://tr.im/F8uJ). ACA2K's outputs: http://tr.im/F8uQ #igf09Nov 17 13:33
phIRCe-localTitle: tr.im your URLs .::. Size~: 12.63 KBNov 17 13:33
phIRCe-localTitle: tr.im your URLs .::. Size~: 12.63 KBNov 17 13:33
trmancoopera is slower then arora LOLNov 17 13:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RD @ pranesh_prakash "Great possibilities of #foss, but a disabling, anti-competitive environment has stunted growth of foss #Egypt." #igf09Nov 17 13:34
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wallcwallc is in charge?  oh noes!!  Nov 17 13:39
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DaemonFCI use OperaNov 17 13:46
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ender2070opera sucksNov 17 13:48
MinceRall browsers suckNov 17 13:48
ender2070except aroraNov 17 13:48
oiaohmender2070: arora has sites where it fails.Nov 17 13:49
ender2070dont they allNov 17 13:49
oiaohmNone are perfect ender2070Nov 17 13:49
ender2070thats what i said :)Nov 17 13:50
oiaohmSo they all suck to someone at some time.Nov 17 13:50
ender2070mincer said all browsers suckNov 17 13:50
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ender2070i said except aroraNov 17 13:50
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Ok, Now printing works! :D Will commit code after some clean up!Nov 17 13:51
oiaohmAt I disagree it can sux at times ender2070Nov 17 13:51
ender2070i think opera sucks because they want the browser ballot on linux tooNov 17 13:51
oiaohmSo why not ender2070Nov 17 13:51
ender2070they cant compete on their own meritsNov 17 13:52
oiaohmGiving user more control over what the install what is wrong with that.Nov 17 13:52
ender2070firefox came out 5 years ago and stole 25% of the marketNov 17 13:52
MinceRthey already have it, it's called package manager gui :>Nov 17 13:52
oiaohmI remember the days when you could choose on install what packages you wanted.Nov 17 13:52
ender2070oiaohm - opera is not free softwareNov 17 13:52
MinceRfor example, KPackageKitNov 17 13:52
oiaohmFew distributions have taken that away ender2070Nov 17 13:52
ender2070if they want to compete properly they need open codeNov 17 13:53
oiaohmInstead force you to install items like mono.Nov 17 13:53
oiaohmI really would like Ubuntu forced to give you the option of altering the installed packages.Nov 17 13:53
ender2070takes too longNov 17 13:53
ender2070and ruins setupNov 17 13:53
oiaohmThe option.Nov 17 13:53
oiaohmdoes not mean you have to choose to customise by page.Nov 17 13:54
oiaohmpackage.Nov 17 13:54
ender2070you can no longer copy an image over to the driveNov 17 13:54
ender2070huge speed impactNov 17 13:54
oiaohmLOLNov 17 13:54
ender2070im not talking iso to cdNov 17 13:54
oiaohmThe alter install of Ubuntu installs faster than the livecd ender2070Nov 17 13:54
ender2070im talking CD to HDD imagingNov 17 13:54
trmancothe only thing opera is good at is scrollingNov 17 13:55
oiaohmPackage management is equally effective ender2070Nov 17 13:55
ender2070not on setupNov 17 13:55
ender2070i disagreeNov 17 13:55
MinceRthere are more things than that opera is good atNov 17 13:55
ender2070the setup will have to deal with hundreds of small package filesNov 17 13:56
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Do you see a child is getting abused? Call 1098 - Child line; ten..nine..eight :) #child #abuse #helplineNov 17 13:56
ender2070instead of just "cloning" it over to the new partitionNov 17 13:56
oiaohmcloning is supprising not that fast when you have to change block size and other things ender2070Nov 17 13:56
ender2070its fast if your pc is goodNov 17 13:56
MinceRfor example, custom toolbar buttons and the Links sidebarNov 17 13:56
oiaohmSame with package install with precaching ender2070Nov 17 13:56
oiaohmIe the packages are layed out in order of apply.Nov 17 13:57
oiaohmLoaded into memory and layed down.Nov 17 13:57
ender2070dudeNov 17 13:57
ender2070are you gonna copy one large tar file slower than a 100 small files?Nov 17 13:57
oiaohmIts not that heavy of a process.Nov 17 13:57
ender2070theres a reason tar existsNov 17 13:57
ender2070and its the same idea for an imageNov 17 13:57
oiaohmOrdered packages are basically one long tar.Nov 17 13:58
oiaohmExpect you can skip out the bits you don't want.Nov 17 13:58
ender2070every time the cd seeks a new package, it adds a delayNov 17 13:58
oiaohmNo seeking.Nov 17 13:58
ender2070vs constantly spinning at a regular rateNov 17 13:58
oiaohmOrderpackage install.Nov 17 13:58
oiaohmThere is no major difference ender2070Nov 17 13:58
oiaohmOther than one provides the means to skip bits.Nov 17 13:59
ender2070why does my fedora install in 5 minutesNov 17 13:59
ender2070including bootNov 17 13:59
*Np237_ (n=joss@diva.malsain.org) has left #boycottnovell ("The spice expands consciousness")Nov 17 13:59
zer0c00lender2070:  F12 is out?Nov 17 13:59
ender2070<fedbot> ender2070: 1 hour, 1 minute, and 42 secondsNov 17 14:00
zer0c00lwhats the bot command ?Nov 17 14:00
ender2070"@f12release"Nov 17 14:00
oiaohmMajor advanage of ordered over image.  Is the means to skip parts that are incompadible ender2070Nov 17 14:01
zer0c00lender2070: Which channel?Nov 17 14:01
zer0c00l.f12release ?Nov 17 14:01
ender2070fedoraNov 17 14:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @glynmoody: Chair of Denmark's standards committee: 'Microsoft is lying' - http://bit.ly/3pQGHk whoa, strong words #denmark #ooxml #isoNov 17 14:01
phIRCe-localTitle: DK: Chair of Denmark's standards committee: 'Microsoft is lying' &mdash;  .::. Size~: 27.95 KBNov 17 14:01
ender2070incompatible parts? explain?Nov 17 14:01
zer0c00lokNov 17 14:02
oiaohmYou have cases where particular thinks like the version of X.org can be video card incompadible.  ender2070Nov 17 14:02
oiaohmso you can install the rest of the disk skipping xorg then pull down from server the working version ender2070Nov 17 14:02
ender2070ubuntu doesnt let you replace packages?Nov 17 14:03
ender2070i canNov 17 14:03
oiaohmImage installs don't.Nov 17 14:03
ender2070sure they doNov 17 14:03
oiaohmNo they don't.Nov 17 14:03
oiaohma Image is a image.Nov 17 14:03
ender2070and?Nov 17 14:03
oiaohmSame thing gets applied.Nov 17 14:03
ender2070after it installs i can do whatever i wantNov 17 14:03
oiaohmIf it nails.Nov 17 14:03
oiaohmThat you cannot after install.Nov 17 14:03
ender2070it it boots at all its not going to failNov 17 14:03
oiaohmLike a kernel moduleNov 17 14:03
oiaohmThat causes a kpanicNov 17 14:04
ender2070what if you got hit by a meteorNov 17 14:04
ender2070if the livecd works, it will installNov 17 14:04
ender2070end of storyNov 17 14:04
oiaohmorder package.Nov 17 14:04
oiaohmCurrently cannot be done up as live.Nov 17 14:04
oiaohmLot want to.Nov 17 14:04
ender2070if its not live, its not worth my timeNov 17 14:05
ender2070i dont have time to waste installing something that doesnt workNov 17 14:05
oiaohmBasically order package the package files are tacked end to end.Nov 17 14:05
oiaohmThere will be a livecd from in time ender2070Nov 17 14:05
ender2070images are fasterNov 17 14:05
oiaohmNop.Nov 17 14:05
oiaohmImages still have to be configured to hardware.Nov 17 14:05
oiaohmorder is the same single file method.Nov 17 14:06
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] /me prepares for a midnight upgrade to Fedora 12 :D #fedbot says less than an hour remaining for the F12 !linux !fedoraNov 17 14:06
ender2070the kernel has all the driversNov 17 14:06
oiaohmIt still has to be configured ender2070Nov 17 14:06
ender2070happens on next rebootNov 17 14:06
oiaohmThat is if you ship with a bloated initrd costing boot time.Nov 17 14:06
ender2070have you even used fedora? it doesnt sound like you know what your comparing againstNov 17 14:06
oiaohmI have used fedora ender2070Nov 17 14:07
ender2070what you're saying implies you haventNov 17 14:07
oiaohmYou can do ordered to fedora with a altered installer.Nov 17 14:07
oiaohmBoot time is basically equal.Nov 17 14:07
oiaohmand install time.Nov 17 14:07
ender2070i dont want to, i said livecd is the only thing that is worth it at allNov 17 14:07
oiaohmI use ordered with multi install ender2070Nov 17 14:08
ender2070i use a single x86_64 disk on all my machinesNov 17 14:08
oiaohmWith a few machines customised out.Nov 17 14:08
oiaohmYou can multi cast ordered ender2070Nov 17 14:08
ender2070on a livecdNov 17 14:08
ender2070?Nov 17 14:08
oiaohmNo after processing required to remove bits.Nov 17 14:08
oiaohmNetwork installs ender2070Nov 17 14:09
ender2070LIVECDNov 17 14:09
ender2070listen to what im sayingNov 17 14:09
ender2070that is my requirementNov 17 14:09
oiaohmLivecd is a feature.Nov 17 14:09
ender2070its a requirementNov 17 14:09
ender2070for me personallyNov 17 14:09
oiaohmIt is doable with ordered.Nov 17 14:09
oiaohmBut there is a annoying issue.Nov 17 14:09
ender2070i dont want to make it slowerNov 17 14:09
oiaohmjiggsaw drivers.Nov 17 14:09
oiaohmDo you know what jigsaw driver are.Nov 17 14:10
ender2070what are jiggsaw driversNov 17 14:10
oiaohmThey build a virtual filesystem out of packages.Nov 17 14:10
ender2070ok?Nov 17 14:10
oiaohmBasically image from package no need for image on disk.Nov 17 14:10
oiaohmTo have your livecdNov 17 14:11
oiaohmFlexableity also to overlap multi images into the likes of a dvd as well.Nov 17 14:11
ender2070multi images?Nov 17 14:11
oiaohmLike Kubuntu and Ubuntu share same files.Nov 17 14:12
ender2070i wouldnt want bothNov 17 14:12
oiaohmWith jigsawing you would only need 1 copy on the disk to have both.Nov 17 14:12
ender2070another thing i dont needNov 17 14:12
oiaohmUseful for people like me having users wanting different configs.Nov 17 14:12
oiaohmAlso useful for updating installers for people like me as well ender2070.Nov 17 14:13
ender2070im going to install ubuntu, and then ill dd it to my drive and tell you which is fasterNov 17 14:13
oiaohmdd will be slower because you will be going non compressed.Nov 17 14:14
ender2070fedora has livecd-creator, it makes updated livecds with the latest packagesNov 17 14:14
oiaohmCompression is key to speed.Nov 17 14:14
oiaohmLess to read off.Nov 17 14:14
ender2070on a 700mb disk thats full it doesnt matterNov 17 14:14
oiaohmLivecd's are compressed.Nov 17 14:15
oiaohmThey use a filesystem called zisofs or squashfsNov 17 14:15
ender2070i wont have to read the archive into memory, do the calculations to decompress and then transfer to hddNov 17 14:15
ender2070vs transfering the raw bytesNov 17 14:15
oiaohmYou are aware is zisofs is compress by individual files.Nov 17 14:16
oiaohmSame with squashfsNov 17 14:16
oiaohmWhere packages can be lenth wise compressed.Nov 17 14:16
ender2070im aware of such technologiesNov 17 14:16
oiaohmThey are not really using a image copy.Nov 17 14:17
oiaohmBecause the filesystem on cd is not the same as on disk.Nov 17 14:17
ender2070whatever they do it takes 50% less time than ubuntus livecd installNov 17 14:17
oiaohmUbuntu live cd's level back ground processes running.Nov 17 14:17
oiaohmLocking up disk access and cpu time.Nov 17 14:18
ender2070not very smartNov 17 14:18
oiaohmI agree.Nov 17 14:18
oiaohmIs pure stupidty.Nov 17 14:18
ender2070so is running with nvidia drivers from juneNov 17 14:18
ender2070lolNov 17 14:18
oiaohmThat is the other problem with direct copy install.Nov 17 14:19
ender2070?Nov 17 14:19
oiaohmYou cannot detect that X package has been updated and not copy it accross and only download and install the newer version.Nov 17 14:19
ender2070"yum update"Nov 17 14:19
ender2070doneNov 17 14:19
oiaohmThat is after install.Nov 17 14:19
ender2070so?Nov 17 14:19
ender2070why is that such an issueNov 17 14:20
oiaohmIf something has a secuirty fault its better not to install it in the first place if its a running service out box.Nov 17 14:20
ender2070then you shouldnt be running ubuntuNov 17 14:20
oiaohmordered package installers have secuirty advantages.Nov 17 14:20
ender2070it has a major security fault alreadyNov 17 14:20
ender2070lack of selinuxNov 17 14:20
oiaohmJust lack the livecd feature.Nov 17 14:20
oiaohmNow ordered + livecd would be great.Nov 17 14:21
ender2070you could use the regular fedora install, you can chose your options during installNov 17 14:21
ender2070not the livecdNov 17 14:21
oiaohmThe update one is a critical one ender2070Nov 17 14:22
ender2070you dont even have to install xNov 17 14:22
oiaohmMeans to check before install locate package that have been updated and not install them.Nov 17 14:22
oiaohmand install the updated versions.Nov 17 14:22
ender2070network installNov 17 14:22
ender2070livecd-creatorNov 17 14:22
ender2070livecd-creator lets you remaster the livecd with updates and any software you want to change aroundNov 17 14:23
oiaohmWhat if a update comes threw between the time you master and get to deploy.Nov 17 14:23
ender2070then you're way too paranoidNov 17 14:24
oiaohmordered I use cope with that.Nov 17 14:24
ender2070nobody is hacking you between the time you install, and the 2 minutes later when you run "yum update"Nov 17 14:24
oiaohmSaves network traffic.Nov 17 14:24
ender2070yum uses delta's nowNov 17 14:25
ender2070so its more efficient than thatNov 17 14:25
oiaohmdelta save having to download the master file fully.Nov 17 14:25
ender2070noNov 17 14:25
ender2070you need to download the master yourself thoughNov 17 14:26
ender2070because you say you wont install it, just the new one directlyNov 17 14:26
ender2070delta can compare against rpm's that were installed, you dont need the .rpmNov 17 14:26
oiaohmusing zsync I can patch the same the old to new.Nov 17 14:26
oiaohmAnd only install the newer package ender2070Nov 17 14:27
ender2070yeah but my xorg update might only be 1mb, and you're newer package is a 20mb downloadNov 17 14:27
oiaohmSo the package was not installed yet I upgrade package then installed.Nov 17 14:27
oiaohmSame with zsync on package file ender2070Nov 17 14:27
ender2070no, you install it and run yum updateNov 17 14:27
oiaohmNo need to install.Nov 17 14:27
ender2070installing it saves timeNov 17 14:28
oiaohmzsync upates the install file ender2070Nov 17 14:28
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Nov 17 14:28
ender2070delta updates are smaller than the full packageNov 17 14:28
oiaohmnot after install patching.Nov 17 14:28
oiaohmSame with zsync ender2070Nov 17 14:28
ender2070so you will get a 1mb .deb too ?Nov 17 14:28
ender2070for the entire xorg treeNov 17 14:28
ender2070assuming fedora hits 1mb tooNov 17 14:29
oiaohmzsync takes the old .deb file downloads like 1mb and makes the new .deb file to install.Nov 17 14:29
ender2070and that comes with ubuntu?Nov 17 14:29
oiaohmSo only new installs.Nov 17 14:29
oiaohmYou can enabled that on all debian based ender2070Nov 17 14:29
oiaohmYep that included ubuntu.Nov 17 14:30
ender2070does it come with it and enabled for all repos?Nov 17 14:30
ender2070if it does all i can say is "FINALLY"Nov 17 14:30
oiaohmzsync is a altered form of rsync ender2070Nov 17 14:31
ender2070its integrated into apt-get?Nov 17 14:31
oiaohmSo server side support is not critical to use it.Nov 17 14:31
oiaohmand it intergrates into apt-getNov 17 14:31
ender2070i would say that now that zsync and presto/delta's exist, anyone not using them is wasting bandwidthNov 17 14:32
oiaohmdeltas should be able to be designed to be applied on package installNov 17 14:33
oiaohmOk mean some package manager tweaking.Nov 17 14:33
ender2070deltras are for updates and installsNov 17 14:33
ender2070in fedoraNov 17 14:33
ender2070saves about 80% bandwidth (according to itself)Nov 17 14:33
oiaohmBasically updates have to be applied before system goes live.Nov 17 14:34
ender2070mission critical business stuff?Nov 17 14:34
oiaohmReally to remain future safe.Nov 17 14:34
ender2070you think you'll get hacked in your first 5 minutes online with firewall and selinux?Nov 17 14:35
oiaohmYou have heard of the cases of windows machines being breached before they can download updates ender2070Nov 17 14:35
ender2070windows isnt linuxNov 17 14:35
oiaohmNumbers increase risk of flaw being exploited that fast.Nov 17 14:35
ender2070no, windows bad design increases riskNov 17 14:35
oiaohmAlso being lame duck does not help windows.Nov 17 14:35
oiaohmBoth are factors ender2070Nov 17 14:35
oiaohmLong term to keep attack low patching on install is good.Nov 17 14:36
ender2070you guys are paranoid over thereNov 17 14:36
oiaohmIts not paranoid.Nov 17 14:36
ender2070robotic unmanned guns, doomsday machines, drones, (nobody attacks australia), then you need patches before you even go online due to the "fear" of hackersNov 17 14:36
oiaohmender2070: how many small battles has australia had to clean up in its local area.Nov 17 14:37
oiaohmLast 12 months 8.  Most did not even make the news.Nov 17 14:38
ender2070nobody is going to figure out what versions of stuff you have to exploit within the 10 minutes it takes for a full update (based on f11 updates, today)Nov 17 14:38
cubezzzyeah and I'm still running fc1 :)Nov 17 14:38
ender207010 minutes, fresh install to fully updatedNov 17 14:39
ender20706 months of updatesNov 17 14:39
ender2070and im including rpmfusion stuff tooNov 17 14:39
ender2070and proprietary nvidia driversNov 17 14:39
ender2070first they need to find out what distro you have, they cant version you through a firewall, no clue there. then they try port scanning you, which doesnt work.Nov 17 14:40
oiaohmYes 10 mins is a little short at this stage.Nov 17 14:40
cubezzzwbfo is downNov 17 14:40
cubezzztoo bad I lost my vhf antennaNov 17 14:40
ender2070how can you possibly get hacked in 10 minutesNov 17 14:40
oiaohmIts also you have to allow for stupidity ender2070Nov 17 14:40
oiaohmIf system is up user webbrowsering before downloading updates ender2070Nov 17 14:41
ender2070why are they web browsing before you do updates?Nov 17 14:41
oiaohmBecause they are stupid. ender2070  what we are going to get more and more of in the Linux world.Nov 17 14:42
ender2070are they going to be web browsing WHILE you are installing the package that you exclude?Nov 17 14:42
ender2070on your current setupNov 17 14:42
oiaohmIf the webbrowser is flawed and it has not been updated yet and you go somewhere you should not.  And these stupid people would most likely used a 6 month old install disk.Nov 17 14:43
ender2070you just saidNov 17 14:43
ender2070you manually remove old packages and install the latestNov 17 14:43
ender2070during installNov 17 14:43
oiaohmDesign the system right stupid idiots don't stand a chance of getting it wrong ender2070Nov 17 14:43
ender2070it is designed rightNov 17 14:44
ender2070its NOT windowsNov 17 14:44
oiaohmLinux distrobutions are close.Nov 17 14:44
ender2070being unpatched doesnt automatically mean malware and virusesNov 17 14:44
cubezzzone of the BSD's is super-secureNov 17 14:44
oiaohmCombind with stupidity it does ender2070Nov 17 14:45
ender2070oiaohm - you told me you would be installing the distroNov 17 14:45
ender2070oiaohm - YOU would run yum update before even letting someone touch itNov 17 14:45
ender2070the same as you would be installing updated packagesNov 17 14:45
ender2070that werent included in the installNov 17 14:45
oiaohmPersonally I don't want to have to remember to yum update and apt-get update commands.Nov 17 14:46
oiaohmI just want it done no questions.Nov 17 14:46
ender2070so what the hell are you doingNov 17 14:47
ender2070just NOT installing any services or programs?Nov 17 14:47
oiaohmSo I can walk way install another machine.Nov 17 14:47
ender2070you said you would exclude old stuffNov 17 14:47
ender2070and install it laterNov 17 14:47
ender2070right?Nov 17 14:47
oiaohmAnd the user at that location can start using it as soon as the login screen comes up ender2070Nov 17 14:47
ender2070so its for business mission critical stuffNov 17 14:48
oiaohmYepNov 17 14:48
ender2070okNov 17 14:48
oiaohmWhere else would you be doing network installs.Nov 17 14:48
ender2070i asked you earlier and you said noNov 17 14:48
oiaohmBut I see home needing it as well.Nov 17 14:49
oiaohmIt should not be a step they need to know to do.Nov 17 14:49
ender2070listenNov 17 14:49
oiaohmThe installer is guiding them.Nov 17 14:49
ender2070there is one step you do alreadyNov 17 14:49
ender2070by not giving them old software, you would have to install it afterNov 17 14:50
ender2070replace that stepNov 17 14:50
ender2070with yum updateNov 17 14:50
oiaohmI have worked with real world enough.Nov 17 14:51
ender2070sounds like you dont understand what im sayingNov 17 14:51
oiaohmThere are a few real world reasons why I avoid that after patching.Nov 17 14:51
ender2070you patch the systemsNov 17 14:51
oiaohmNormally all patches are kept inside 24 hours of current.Nov 17 14:51
ender2070thats not goodNov 17 14:52
oiaohmEven if a person picks up old disk.Nov 17 14:52
ender2070according to youNov 17 14:52
ender2070so your not even doing the install?Nov 17 14:52
oiaohmIts harder to do better ender2070Nov 17 14:52
ender2070fedora's network install uses the updates repoNov 17 14:52
ender2070not an issueNov 17 14:52
ender2070andNov 17 14:52
oiaohmrepos can be laged.Nov 17 14:53
ender2070livecd-creator can remaster, and you can do it every dayNov 17 14:53
oiaohmThat still does not stop under personal using old disk.Nov 17 14:53
oiaohmOr home user using a old mag disk.Nov 17 14:53
ender2070that has nothing to do with what your talking aboutNov 17 14:53
oiaohmBoth lead to installing very old ender2070Nov 17 14:54
ender2070old disks dont protect you at all from security risksNov 17 14:54
ender2070that you claim are issuesNov 17 14:54
ender2070if they pick up an old disk they still have to run synaptic/apt-getNov 17 14:54
oiaohmMy old disks if used will still intall current.Nov 17 14:54
ender2070from the air?Nov 17 14:55
oiaohmThey check with network server.Nov 17 14:55
ender2070and network install doesnt?Nov 17 14:55
oiaohmUpdate what has been updated in the install process.Nov 17 14:55
ender2070and that doesnt create lag?Nov 17 14:55
oiaohmUnlike a network install they don't download what they already have.Nov 17 14:55
*benJIman (n=benji@benjiweber.co.uk) has left #boycottnovellNov 17 14:56
ender2070hmm Nov 17 14:56
ender2070you've explained it a bit more clearlyNov 17 14:56
ender2070what do you do about selinux missing thoughNov 17 14:56
ender2070and firewallNov 17 14:56
oiaohmOf course in business I am using a internal mirror so no going accross the internet.Nov 17 14:57
oiaohmSo way reduced risk.Nov 17 14:57
ender2070they never get net access? Nov 17 14:57
ender2070not talking about for updates nowNov 17 14:57
ender2070security in generalNov 17 14:57
oiaohmselinux I use a lot.Nov 17 14:58
oiaohmMy installs of debian and ubuntu also have it activated.Nov 17 14:58
ender2070good :)Nov 17 14:58
ender2070selinux > apparmourNov 17 14:58
oiaohmapparmor still used by ubuntu by default is techincally crap.Nov 17 14:58
ender2070yesNov 17 14:59
oiaohmthere is a newer version out there that does at least kinda work.Nov 17 14:59
ender2070apparmour is novell tho, kinda uselessNov 17 14:59
oiaohmtomoyo intercept system.Nov 17 14:59
ender2070only they use it and ubuntuNov 17 14:59
oiaohmThere is a upgrade to appamor using it.Nov 17 14:59
oiaohmSo at least you cannot walk straight around it any more.Nov 17 15:00
oiaohmReally I wish selinux would pick up the tomoyo method as well for filesystmes that cannot store xattrNov 17 15:00
ender2070what filesystem do u useNov 17 15:00
oiaohmext3 still.Nov 17 15:01
oiaohmSet old style.Nov 17 15:01
oiaohmIts been production tested.Nov 17 15:01
oiaohmOk not best performing but stablity beats performance long term.Nov 17 15:01
ender2070i was gonna sayNov 17 15:01
ender2070resierfs has itNov 17 15:01
ender2070lolNov 17 15:01
oiaohmresierfs I have seen more lost data with that than anything else.Nov 17 15:02
ender2070hehe i agreeNov 17 15:02
ender2070my fav is zfs thoNov 17 15:02
oiaohmI like how btrfs design looks.Nov 17 15:02
oiaohmIn time that will most likely beat zfsNov 17 15:03
ender2070they dont like the fact that zfs does so muchNov 17 15:03
ender2070it handles raid, lvm, sharing, and you can use zfs partitions as containersNov 17 15:03
oiaohmSo does btrfsNov 17 15:03
ender2070no, i mean it literally does all thatNov 17 15:04
oiaohmYep.Nov 17 15:04
ender2070brtfs uses kernel subsystems for those featuresNov 17 15:04
oiaohmbtrfs raids internally.Nov 17 15:04
ender2070zfs reinvents the wheelNov 17 15:04
oiaohmfilesystem based raiding has major advantages.Nov 17 15:04
ender2070yes it doesNov 17 15:04
ender2070intelligent error correctionNov 17 15:04
oiaohmReally its been stupid to do raid and filesystem independant.Nov 17 15:05
ender2070yeahNov 17 15:05
ender2070zfs saved my ass tooNov 17 15:05
ender2070i had a drive dieNov 17 15:05
ender2070in a raid-z arrayNov 17 15:05
ender2070while the machine was still powered on, i removed the drive, replaced it, and rebuild the raid will the OS was still loadedNov 17 15:05
ender2070whileNov 17 15:06
oiaohmBig thing Linux lacks is filesystems that natively support compression and encryption.Nov 17 15:06
ender2070yeahNov 17 15:06
oiaohmNext is central management stuff.Nov 17 15:07
ender2070filesystems on linux havent gone too far in the last few years, nothing revolutionary since btrfsNov 17 15:07
oiaohmfreeipa could be nice.Nov 17 15:07
ender2070and its really oracle that is doing btrfsNov 17 15:07
cubezzzthere's the picture of a zaurus on the amiga page, weirdNov 17 15:07
cubezzzthey must have been working on some sort of amiga zaurus projectNov 17 15:07
oiaohmThere have been some revolution in network filesystems ender2070Nov 17 15:07
oiaohmMostly Linux has all filesystems now.Nov 17 15:07
ender2070NFS 4 has been around since like 2004Nov 17 15:08
ender2070beta maybe but aroundNov 17 15:08
oiaohmI was meaning clustering filesystems ender2070Nov 17 15:08
ender2070ohhh,Nov 17 15:08
oiaohmNetwork clustering filesystems.Nov 17 15:08
ender2070i forgotNov 17 15:08
ender2070started with a GNov 17 15:08
ender2070by redhatNov 17 15:09
oiaohmgfs we have 2 of.Nov 17 15:09
oiaohmOne from google one from redhatNov 17 15:09
oiaohmboth different filesystems.Nov 17 15:09
ender2070the one i read was the redhat oneNov 17 15:09
oiaohmYes insanity.Nov 17 15:09
oiaohmRedhat is global filesystemNov 17 15:10
oiaohmGoogles is google filesystemNov 17 15:10
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Fedora 12 is out! https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_tourNov 17 15:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Fedora 12 one page release notes - FedoraProject .::. Size~: 30.83 KBNov 17 15:11
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 17 15:14
ender2070im getting it right nowNov 17 15:16
*Omar87 (n=quassel@94.249.14.159) has joined #boycottnovellNov 17 15:27
Omar87Wow.. just wow.. http://verofakto.blogspot.com/2009/11/just-another-day-at-boycottnovell.htmlNov 17 15:28
phIRCe-localTitle: verofakto: Just another day at BoycottNovell .::. Size~: 98.86 KBNov 17 15:28
Omar87schestowitz: Why on Earth is he analyzing your website? :DNov 17 15:28
Omar87schestowitz: What exactly does he intend to do?? :)Nov 17 15:29
Omar87schestowitz: could such kinds of information be useful in a DDOS attack, for example?Nov 17 15:29
wallcOmar87, I think he is away...he left me "in charge"...lol - which is a little like leaving the nuttiest inmate in charge of the asylum :)Nov 17 15:35
MinceRwhy do you feed verofakto, Omar87?Nov 17 15:35
MinceR(with attention)Nov 17 15:35
Omar87MinceR: I'm not feeding him.Nov 17 15:36
Omar87MinceR: I'm just curious about what kinda schizophrenia is he suffering from exactly.. Nov 17 15:37
Omar87MinceR: he's such a psycho..Nov 17 15:38
MinceRi knowNov 17 15:38
ender2070who is thatNov 17 15:39
Omar87MinceR: Read the comment that I just posted under his article on FSDaily.Nov 17 15:42
Omar87ender2070: trust me, you don't wanna know. :)Nov 17 15:42
ender2070his irc nickNov 17 15:44
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ender2070i might want to know just so I can avoid himNov 17 15:47
ender2070I guess he didnt read this "If you just want to publish a single conversation, be careful to get permission from each participant. Provide as much context as you can. Avoid the temptation to publish or distribute logs without permission in order to portray someone in a bad light. The reputation you save will most likely be your own. "Nov 17 15:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Microsoft promoting software patents at a conference in South Africa: http://i5.be/TgNov 17 15:48
phIRCe-localTitle: IPR Conference .::. Size~: 69.44 KBNov 17 15:48
ender2070however, having it mentioned in the channel topic worksNov 17 15:48
ender2070but not for himNov 17 15:49
ender2070(vero)Nov 17 15:49
wallcIt's funny that he'd spend (waste) so much time analyzing BN...meh, just another day in Trollville. Nov 17 15:53
ender2070yeah he did spend too much timeNov 17 15:53
Omar87wallc: you read my comment on his article at FSDaily?Nov 17 15:59
Omar87*did* you read..Nov 17 15:59
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|afkNov 17 15:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] German association of IT companies BIKT demands the exclusion of software patents with the complete protection by copyright http://i5.be/ThNov 17 16:02
phIRCe-localTitle: IT-Branchenverband BIKT fordert Schutzschirmklausel für den Urheberrechtsschutz von Computerprogrammen .::. Size~: 15.51 KBNov 17 16:02
ender2070his article on fsdaily?Nov 17 16:02
wallcOmar87, yes, I read your comment.  But I don't think it's wise to give those kinds of people attention.  They love arguments and hate being ignored...so I'd rather ignore them.Nov 17 16:03
Omar87wallc: Yeah, that's right.Nov 17 16:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] German association of 600 SMEs call for abolition of software patents because of the conflict with copyright: http://i5.be/TiNov 17 16:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Google Traduction .::. Size~: 1.22 KBNov 17 16:06
wallcThe only times it seems right to respond to trolls is when they are posting misleading comments on other people's articles and blogs.  Sometimes those comments need to be addressed.Nov 17 16:07
wallcI think it's funny that (sometimes) people will assume that, because you are doing things on a computer, you are actually AT the computer the whole time.  Right now I am making spanish omelets for breakfast, and reinstalling Kubuntu on another computer, and trying to learn how to set up a Virtualbox XP on this computer (reading about it now)...of course, the omelet will likely burn while i'm fussing with the Kubuntu machineNov 17 16:13
wallc(oh, and I'm also talking to myself)  lolNov 17 16:13
Omar87wallc: :-)Nov 17 16:15
ender2070he probably assumes roy is as anti social as he isNov 17 16:16
schestowitzMe??Nov 17 16:17
schestowitzI've just spent 2 hours speaking with mates at the gymNov 17 16:17
ender2070yeahNov 17 16:17
wallcYes you  :)Nov 17 16:17
ender2070didnt u see?Nov 17 16:17
ender2070vera posted something really bad on his partNov 17 16:18
schestowitzIncluding a professor over 60 whom I have tons to talk about withNov 17 16:18
ender2070makes him look like a stalkerNov 17 16:18
schestowitzI've just gotten back, got some recycling bags and stuffNov 17 16:18
schestowitzStill watching up with IRCNov 17 16:18
schestowitzI'm trying to see how you came to "<ender2070> he probably assumes roy is as anti social as he is"Nov 17 16:18
schestowitzender2070: who"?Nov 17 16:19
wallcglad you're back, i've had a tough time keeping these rascals in line...  Ha ha :)Nov 17 16:19
schestowitz[16:18] <ender2070> makes him look like a stalkerNov 17 16:19
schestowitzIs it the OCD puppets -- the one/s following me?Nov 17 16:19
ender2070veraNov 17 16:19
schestowitzThat's a Russian name for a ladyNov 17 16:19
ender2070veroNov 17 16:19
schestowitzI worked with oneNov 17 16:19
ender2070http://verofakto.blogspot.com/2009/11/just-another-day-at-boycottnovell.htmlNov 17 16:19
phIRCe-localTitle: verofakto: Just another day at BoycottNovell .::. Size~: 98.86 KBNov 17 16:19
*schestowitz lostNov 17 16:19
schestowitzYuck. Don't link to attack sitesNov 17 16:20
schestowitzYou feed them that wayNov 17 16:20
ender2070already linkedNov 17 16:20
schestowitzIn case, just talking about the stalking is a waste of timeNov 17 16:20
schestowitzSomeone just mailed me cool thingsNov 17 16:20
schestowitzre: GoogleNov 17 16:20
schestowitzThere's also that thing from Denmark re OOXMLNov 17 16:20
ender2070oh?Nov 17 16:20
schestowitzYeah, I'll make some posts laterNov 17 16:21
schestowitzBeen a day of errandsNov 17 16:21
cubezzzthis is insane... someone has spent way too much time studying vimNov 17 16:21
cubezzzhttp://www.rayninfo.co.uk/vimtips.htmlNov 17 16:21
phIRCe-localTitle: Best of VIM Tips, gVIM's Key Features zzapper .::. Size~: 46.63 KBNov 17 16:21
schestowitztessier: are you around yet? 8amNov 17 16:21
schestowitzTHe trolls know nothing about Mike Masnick's Streisand EffectNov 17 16:23
schestowitzThey only promote the very same thing they're attackedNov 17 16:23
schestowitzHad they been smart, they'd ignoreNov 17 16:23
schestowitzI'm not going to read it and I never do, cause them I would feel need to reply to lies, which only feeds the trolls, in turnNov 17 16:23
schestowitzGrokaw has some sites against itNov 17 16:24
schestowitzLike ipwarsNov 17 16:24
schestowitzThey tried upNov 17 16:24
schestowitz*driedNov 17 16:24
*schestowitz reads ender2070 and oiaohm taking uberl33thax0r stuffNov 17 16:25
ender2070LOLNov 17 16:25
schestowitz[15:35] <MinceR> why do you feed verofakto, Omar87?Nov 17 16:25
schestowitz+1Nov 17 16:26
ender2070<--uberleet, arch64Nov 17 16:26
ender2070on my notebook anywaysNov 17 16:26
schestowitzArch is hard, no?Nov 17 16:28
schestowitztrmanco wanted to try and insisted it's easyNov 17 16:28
schestowitzPetoKraus uses itNov 17 16:28
schestowitzIt seems to have a fantastic communityNov 17 16:28
PetoKraus:)Nov 17 16:28
PetoKrausyeahNov 17 16:29
schestowitz Free public Wi-Fi scheme for town < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8364159.stm > What's with the strings?Nov 17 16:29
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.46 KBNov 17 16:29
cubezzzwhat's hard about it?Nov 17 16:29
schestowitzHave Bill&Steve already decided who will rob Allen? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8363705.stmNov 17 16:30
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.53 KBNov 17 16:30
schestowitzhttp://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060330.htmlNov 17 16:31
schestowitz| During one of those last long nights working to deliver DOS 2.0 inNov 17 16:31
phIRCe-localTitle: I, Cringely . The Pulpit . Prisoner of Redmond | PBS .::. Size~: 29.72 KBNov 17 16:31
schestowitz| early 1983, I am told that Paul Allen heard Gates and Ballmer discussingNov 17 16:31
schestowitz| his health and talking about how to get his Microsoft shares back ifNov 17 16:31
schestowitz| Allen were to die.Nov 17 16:31
schestowitzWell, Billie and Stevie can return to talking about it maybeNov 17 16:31
schestowitzDoes Allen have a family?Nov 17 16:31
schestowitzHis sister seems to have spoken about his leukaemiaNov 17 16:31
schestowitzOmar87: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8363021.stmNov 17 16:33
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.53 KBNov 17 16:33
schestowitzAbout time...Nov 17 16:33
cubezzzhow many shares does he have?Nov 17 16:33
cubezzzI don't think he ever marriedNov 17 16:38
schestowitzIn MSFT I think close to noneNov 17 16:38
schestowitzcubezzz: career people like him often don'tNov 17 16:38
schestowitzI actually respect that. RMS didn't marry either; he jokes about GNU being his "Child"Nov 17 16:39
schestowitzcubezzz: his company that he had lots of money in had like $20bn in debtNov 17 16:39
schestowitzBankrupt nowNov 17 16:39
schestowitzHe left early... before some of Microsoft bigger crimes beganNov 17 16:39
schestowitzEarly days were mischief and scandals, not as much crimeNov 17 16:40
schestowitzTaking other people's ideas in an age b4 swpat is no crimeNov 17 16:40
cubezzzwhen I was a lot younger Paul Getty was the richest manNov 17 16:40
schestowitzBut how hypocritically does Microsoft cry to HAVE  them now.Nov 17 16:40
schestowitz"Remove those fences.... let us in..... Now, Now... let's create fences"Nov 17 16:41
schestowitzcubezzz: nopeNov 17 16:41
*zer0c00l|afk is now known as zer0c00lNov 17 16:41
schestowitzThe richest are probably not listedNov 17 16:41
schestowitzOr the wealth distributed among familiesNov 17 16:41
cubezzzthis was around 1976 I thinkNov 17 16:41
cubezzzoil moneyNov 17 16:41
schestowitzDynasties like Rockefeller and Rothschild, also maybe some people in the middle east with oil enterprisesNov 17 16:42
schestowitzcubezzz: yes, oil tooNov 17 16:42
schestowitzSome manage not to be listedNov 17 16:42
schestowitzThey DON'T want to be listedNov 17 16:42
ender2070and the royal familyNov 17 16:42
schestowitzThere are those who treat Forbes like a sports/OlympicsNov 17 16:42
cubezzzthere was this guy in the 20's who was _worse_ that MadoffNov 17 16:42
cubezzz1920'sNov 17 16:42
schestowitzOther who are conscious of the crimes that put them in power hide, hide, hide their wealthNov 17 16:43
cubezzzyes well... it's an illnessNov 17 16:43
schestowitzcubezzz: Ponzi came later,,  no?Nov 17 16:43
cubezzzhow greedy can people beNov 17 16:43
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PonziNov 17 16:43
phIRCe-localTitle: Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 84.55 KBNov 17 16:43
schestowitzcubezzz: we don't understand, they don't view the world the same wayNov 17 16:44
schestowitzNot cause they are richNov 17 16:44
schestowitzNot cause they can afford stuffNov 17 16:44
schestowitzWe just can't understandNov 17 16:44
cubezzzPonzi was around the same timeNov 17 16:44
wallccubezzz, you probably remember Charlie Keating too..Nov 17 16:45
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi#Prison_and_later_lifeNov 17 16:45
phIRCe-localTitle: Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 84.55 KBNov 17 16:45
schestowitzDies happily in Brazil on the face of itNov 17 16:45
schestowitzCriminals _in suits_ are not treated like shoplifterNov 17 16:45
schestowitzLike "prison celebrity"Nov 17 16:45
schestowitzAlong the lines of "Ghetto celebrity"Nov 17 16:46
cubezzzI'm not that old :)Nov 17 16:46
cubezzzwell, I know Harry Langdon from digital files too :)Nov 17 16:46
wallcBut you remembered Getty.Nov 17 16:46
schestowitzMadoff might not get his favourite meal in jail :-)Nov 17 16:46
cubezzzyes, I remembered GettyNov 17 16:46
schestowitz"Let him eat cake"Nov 17 16:46
cubezzzthat's still in my timeNov 17 16:47
schestowitzIsn't Gates behing Getty's rival?Nov 17 16:47
schestowitzCorbis.Nov 17 16:47
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schestowitzThey are all screwed up anywayNov 17 16:47
*ender2070 (n=ender207@CPE001676d328eb-CM001404925514.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 17 16:47
schestowitzInformation is abundant nowNov 17 16:47
wallcI remember when Getty's grandson was kidnapped, and the kidnappers threatened to cut off the boy's fingers if old Getty didn't pay up...Nov 17 16:47
*ender2070 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 17 16:47
schestowitzAny attempt to create scarcities is running into a wallNov 17 16:47
cubezzzwallc, yesNov 17 16:47
cubezzzI think he actually lost an earNov 17 16:47
wallcCan't remember what year that was...Nov 17 16:48
wallc(wallc busy Googling)Nov 17 16:48
schestowitz:-)Nov 17 16:48
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cubezzzMadoff might get killed in jailNov 17 16:48
schestowitzInmates pyramidNov 17 16:49
wallcI dunno, they say he's pretty charming, those jailsters might just like him a lot and keep him around...Nov 17 16:49
cubezzzIn 1973, his oldest child and son, Paul III, was kidnapped in RomeNov 17 16:49
cubezzzwallc, I'm sure he is very persuasive :)Nov 17 16:50
schestowitzwallc: most of them are impressionable and "charming"Nov 17 16:50
wallcMy youngest son was 2 years old in 1973Nov 17 16:50
schestowitzThat's how they get as far as they doNov 17 16:50
cubezzzwhich makes Gates all the more uniqueNov 17 16:50
cubezzzhe's got anti-charm +100000Nov 17 16:50
wallcThe thing was, old Getty refused to pay the kidnappers for his grandson's release.Nov 17 16:50
schestowitzIt's trickyNov 17 16:51
cubezzzhe did pay, after the kidnappers cut an ear offNov 17 16:51
schestowitzIf you pay ransom you encourage the practiceNov 17 16:51
schestowitzIt's the same with terror~1 post-9/11Nov 17 16:51
schestowitzA lot of taxpayers' money was spent giving awards for people to lieNov 17 16:52
schestowitzTo fabricate things about a so-called "Al Qaeda" and give the CIA the fake evidence they neededNov 17 16:52
wallcyes, i agree it's never good to pay extortionists but it would certainly suck to be the child of a famous person.Nov 17 16:52
schestowitzOne of the guys who did this for the CIA bragged about it...Nov 17 16:52
schestowitzWalked away a rich man.... paid by taxpayers, however ironically...Nov 17 16:52
schestowitzwallc: that's why they keep their kids secretNov 17 16:53
schestowitzYou'd never hear about Gates' and Ballmer's kids, for exampleNov 17 16:53
schestowitzNor Tony Blair, beyond Leo and some photos for mediaNov 17 16:53
schestowitzYou can tell their ages, but really, it's beyond what's suitable for discussionNov 17 16:53
wallcIt's probably for the best, I really don't want to see their kids, especially not Ballmers.Nov 17 16:54
schestowitzI was angry when some people started insulting Miguel de Icaza by talking about his parents, for exampleNov 17 16:54
schestowitzIt's totally unrelatedNov 17 16:54
schestowitzAd hominem by relation/inferenceNov 17 16:54
schestowitzLike people who try to associated me with people whom I reply to or somethingNov 17 16:54
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_wealthy_historical_figuresNov 17 16:54
phIRCe-localTitle: List of wealthiest historical figures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 60.55 KBNov 17 16:54
schestowitzwallc: they are not nice to the kidsNov 17 16:55
schestowitzProbably leave it for others to take care of themNov 17 16:55
cubezzzadjusted for inflation, Rockefeller had US$318.68 billionNov 17 16:55
schestowitz"My children - in many dimensions they're as poorly behaved as many other children, but at least on this dimension I've got my kids brainwashed: You don't use Google, and you don't use an iPod." --Steve Ballmer (on CNN)Nov 17 16:55
schestowitzSpoken like a true poppaNov 17 16:55
wallcwell, let's hope the kids are able to rise above their parents.  Nov 17 16:55
schestowitz"...I've got my kids brainwashed..."Nov 17 16:56
schestowitz"...poorly behaved as many other children.."Nov 17 16:56
cubezzzwow, Carnegie was worth over 300 billion as wellNov 17 16:56
schestowitzWhat's that about?Nov 17 16:56
schestowitzNot many parents would say such a thingNov 17 16:56
cubezzzmind control? :)Nov 17 16:56
schestowitzUnless they're shouters or spankers or somethingNov 17 16:56
schestowitzBut anyway...Nov 17 16:56
wallci always thought that remark was strange too...Nov 17 16:57
schestowitzBasket Ball Play with Steve Ballmer - By mrama < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WklYJvpK-Tk >Nov 17 16:57
schestowitzWeird...Nov 17 16:57
cubezzz"here kid, have a Zune"Nov 17 16:58
schestowitzWatch chickenlegs Ballmer in shorts... :-)Nov 17 16:58
schestowitzcubezzz: Zune is OK, at least it doesn't EXPLODE like ipodNov 17 16:58
wallcI do not want to see Ballmer in shorts...seriously.Nov 17 16:59
wallcwhat in the world could make an ipod display explode?  sounds strange to me.Nov 17 16:59
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/17/eu_ringtone_sweep/Nov 17 17:00
phIRCe-localTitle: EU sweeps up dodgy ringtone companies • The Register .::. Size~: 27.57 KBNov 17 17:00
schestowitzwallc: batteriesNov 17 17:00
wallchmmm, glad i never bought one.Nov 17 17:01
schestowitzHeh. Microsoft is till trying: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/17/windowsphone_marketplace/Nov 17 17:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft opens Marketplace to the masses • The Register .::. Size~: 27.15 KBNov 17 17:02
schestowitzThey can't give up on a sinking ship, gotta give em creditNov 17 17:02
schestowitzwallc: would a word like channelmistress (like channelmaster) be demeaning?Nov 17 17:03
schestowitzI wonder how the word "mistress" got lost in translation and contextNov 17 17:03
schestowitzA colleague of mine who used to run the mail service called herself postmistress (like postmaster)Nov 17 17:04
amarsh04postmistress was a term used in .au alsoNov 17 17:04
wallclol, i think channelmaster fine with out needing to be changed.  Nov 17 17:05
schestowitzMistress got associated with servitude, I thinkNov 17 17:05
schestowitzConnotative with "Geisha"Nov 17 17:05
wallcyeah, mistress got associated with a lot of things...Nov 17 17:05
wallcit's all just words.Nov 17 17:06
schestowitzDeliberate, wallc?Nov 17 17:06
schestowitzYes, words convey imagesNov 17 17:06
schestowitzPeople rarely think of linguisticNov 17 17:06
schestowitzAnd viceNov 17 17:06
schestowitz*voiceNov 17 17:06
wallcias Popeye says, I yam whats I yam....a rose by any other name still has thorns...Nov 17 17:06
schestowitzLike the reason  a lady's voice gets used in situation that may cause panic like aircraft warningsNov 17 17:06
schestowitzLook what happened to so many innocent wordsNov 17 17:07
wallcyou mean like a piercing scream?Nov 17 17:07
schestowitzLibertarian, free (Cheap), anarchy, opinionated, activist, union, protest, boycott...Nov 17 17:07
wallcyes, like when i wrote that i was given Bing balls at the microsoft store...lol...ya just can't say balls anymore.Nov 17 17:07
cubezzzCaptain Boycott ;)Nov 17 17:08
schestowitzwallc: Ball is okay, not balls as pluralNov 17 17:08
schestowitzToo much wiggling room for jokeNov 17 17:08
wallcbut i got TWO of them.Nov 17 17:08
schestowitzAs "queer" is a dad word tooNov 17 17:08
schestowitz"fag" and "gay" too... simply meaning a type of food, and happyNov 17 17:08
wallc(I think you mean *bad*Nov 17 17:08
schestowitzSome people try to rejuvenate these words, but it sounds too strangeNov 17 17:09
MinceRi didn't know people ate branchesNov 17 17:09
MinceRor cigarettesNov 17 17:09
schestowitzIt also means cigarettesNov 17 17:09
MinceRalso, the branch applies to the unabbreviated form, so i take that backNov 17 17:10
schestowitzcigarette is the slang part of itNov 17 17:10
schestowitzhttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/fagNov 17 17:10
phIRCe-localTitle: fag - definition of fag by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. .::. Size~: 61.08 KBNov 17 17:10
schestowitzhttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/faggotNov 17 17:11
phIRCe-localTitle: faggot - definition of faggot by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia. .::. Size~: 37.73 KBNov 17 17:11
schestowitz"3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried"Nov 17 17:11
schestowitzSee?Nov 17 17:11
schestowitzJust cuisine.Nov 17 17:11
schestowitzYou may still see the word in British cooking shows sometimesNov 17 17:11
wallcwell, it's been fun this morning, but it's time for me to get busy with work...bye for now :)Nov 17 17:13
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MinceRicNov 17 17:13
schestowitzFish Liberation (The Battle for Swear Words) < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhfO5ouJSfk >Nov 17 17:13
schestowitzGood videos from these chapsNov 17 17:13
schestowitzThis guy's channel is worthwhile: http://www.youtube.com/user/cveitchNov 17 17:14
schestowitzhttp://bojack.org/2009/11/how_goldman_sachs_jerks_americ.htmlNov 17 17:29
phIRCe-localTitle: How Goldman Sachs jerks America around (Jack Bog's Blog) .::. Size~: 100.21 KBNov 17 17:29
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im76jBOGmZgNov 17 17:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] New blog post "Ubuntu Lucid Developer Summit First Day Part One" http://bit.ly/1MgRGfNov 17 17:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Ubuntu Lucid Developer Summit First Day Part One | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 22.95 KBNov 17 17:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Everyone should watch this series! -- Phase 3 pt.6 (Modern Western Civilization) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSx4Twph6c4Nov 17 18:08
schestowitz*ping* tessier?Nov 17 18:12
tessierYes?Nov 17 18:12
schestowitz:-)Nov 17 18:13
schestowitzI found out what's causing an issueNov 17 18:13
schestowitzThere's no access to DNSNov 17 18:13
schestowitzMaybe just the VM, maybe something in configs. It stopped working around 4pm your time yesterdayNov 17 18:13
schestowitzThat's why Akismet, for example,gave the warning message that had you baffled. It can't make connections to domain /names/Nov 17 18:14
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schestowitzhttp://www.latenightpc.com/blog/archives/2009/11/16/running-a-simple-go-webserver-on-slicehost-with-centosNov 17 18:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Running a Simple Go Webserver on Slicehost with CentOS | Late Night PC .::. Size~: 14.08 KBNov 17 18:29
tessierohNov 17 18:30
tessierI'll fix the dns...Nov 17 18:30
schestowitzThank you so much! :-)Nov 17 18:35
schestowitzIDG has just published two articles bashing and baiting Linux using Google to make illusion of civil war. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/182289/the_future_of_linux_is_google.htmlNov 17 18:39
phIRCe-localTitle: The Future of Linux is Google - Business Center - PC World Business Center .::. Size~: 64.47 KBNov 17 18:39
schestowitzTalking point: Google is attacking Linux, Linux users are scared from Google; trouble in paradiseNov 17 18:40
schestowitzThe other article comes from a known trollNov 17 18:40
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schestowitzMicrosoft Hiner is at it again: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=3348 Forgot ARM...?Nov 17 18:47
phIRCe-localTitle: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 82.45 KBNov 17 18:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The person responsible for the Windows 7 Party video appears to have escaped custody http://post.ly/CpSY AUGH MY EYESNov 17 18:58
schestowitzOpen source to the rescue? < https://fossbazaar.org/content/open-source-rescue > WHy is Black Duck in there?Nov 17 19:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Open source to the rescue? | FOSSBazaar .::. Size~: 16.5 KBNov 17 19:09
schestowitzJust got someone having issues logging in cause without DNS mail can't be sent... Nov 17 19:11
schestowitz>>> cannot login, register this account please...Nov 17 19:11
schestowitz> >Nov 17 19:11
schestowitz> >Nov 17 19:11
schestowitz> > BN, cannot login or register. Make me an account...Nov 17 19:11
schestowitz> Our  DNS is down at the moment, that's why.Nov 17 19:11
schestowitz> Retry later. :-)Nov 17 19:11
tessierDNS is fixed.Nov 17 19:11
schestowitztessier: if it's tricky to fix maybe I...... OH...Nov 17 19:11
schestowitzLet me retryNov 17 19:11
schestowitzAh!! :-) :-) :-)Nov 17 19:11
schestowitzYes, it\s backNov 17 19:12
schestowitzThanks SO muchNov 17 19:12
tessierI need to figure out a way to test this sort of thing. I did some DNS reconfiguring last night. Sorry about that.Nov 17 19:12
schestowitzNo problemNov 17 19:12
schestowitzNo harm doneNov 17 19:12
schestowitzIn summary:Nov 17 19:12
schestowitz  *some spam got through, needed manual deletition and pages had pr0n comments in em :-)Nov 17 19:12
schestowitz *The other issues were minor - login, other stuffNov 17 19:13
tessierF12 released today! WOohoo!Nov 17 19:13
tessierI've been waiting on this one to upgrade my workstation.Nov 17 19:13
schestowitzYeah :-)Nov 17 19:15
schestowitzI saw the official release pageNov 17 19:15
*tessier fires up the torrentNov 17 19:15
schestowitzIt looks like a good release. F9 was badNov 17 19:15
schestowitzOmar87: http://www.linuxac.org/forum/linuxac2/thread32409.html BN in ArabicNov 17 19:15
phIRCe-localTitle: ÎÈÑ Microsoft  ÊÝÊÍ ãÕÏÑ 0.Dotnet Micro Framework 4 - ãÌÊãÚ áíäæßÓ ÇáÚÑÈí .::. Size~: 89.14 KBNov 17 19:15
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phIRCe-BNcHello World!Nov 17 19:21
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schestowitz David Coursey turns out to be trolling Microsoft too, not just Microsoft. He does this in the same pub' as Randall K, IDGNov 17 19:23
schestowitz /just Microsoft/just Linux/Nov 17 19:24
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sebsebsebhiNov 17 19:38
schestowitz0/Nov 17 19:45
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ReverseGTRin other news many publications including Rupoert Murdoch's take out guns, aim at their feet and shoot themselves: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/16/microsoft-assured-damage/Nov 17 19:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Colludes Against Google | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.67 KBNov 17 19:48
schestowitzCharlie Chaplin < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4 >Nov 17 19:49
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schestowitzReverseGTR: yes, I have a followup comingNov 17 19:49
ReverseGTRschestowitz: its beyond me why publications would risk themselves on losing what really matters to them for alittle bribing and a spot on some company's front pageNov 17 19:50
ReverseGTRmaybe I'm too old fashionNov 17 19:50
schestowitzReverseGTR: they miss the point case of blogsNov 17 19:51
schestowitzThe blogs contain their "scoops"Nov 17 19:51
schestowitzAP shot itself in the foot and then ran back to Google('s index)Nov 17 19:51
schestowitzMicrosoft has tried toppling Google for many years nowNov 17 19:52
ReverseGTRschestowitz: and they are just bleeding capital on bribes, smoothNov 17 20:01
schestowitzLet them.Nov 17 20:21
schestowitzIt's also a PR problem for themNov 17 20:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @dcurtis: Thomson Reuters logo is really a toilet flushing? This is the best Postsecret ever: http://bit.ly/2EExbCNov 17 20:32
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wispygalaxyhello :)Nov 17 20:41
wispygalaxyanyone awake in here?!Nov 17 20:41
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wispygalaxyping schestowitzNov 17 20:47
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wispygalaxyhey goblin!Nov 17 20:50
trmancoI amNov 17 20:53
wispygalaxyhi tony :DNov 17 20:53
trmancohiNov 17 20:53
wispygalaxyhow's portugal?Nov 17 20:53
trmancosucks, as alwaysNov 17 20:53
wispygalaxyi'd like to visit! :)Nov 17 20:54
wispygalaxythe weather was nice today... i regret wearing such warm clothes Nov 17 20:54
trmancowill move to Canada soon :)Nov 17 20:54
wispygalaxyi've been there once, niagara fallsNov 17 20:54
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wispygalaxyis schestowitz around?Nov 17 20:55
trmancoI'm not to far from there :-PNov 17 20:55
trmancoHe shouldNov 17 20:55
trmancomaybe he is just busyNov 17 20:55
wispygalaxyoh ok, thxNov 17 20:55
wispygalaxyroy's always busy with the latest linux newsNov 17 20:56
wispygalaxyhave you tried ubuntu 9.10?Nov 17 20:56
trmancoyeahNov 17 20:56
trmancowellNov 17 20:56
trmancokubuntu 9.10Nov 17 20:56
wispygalaxyoh yes, kde ftwNov 17 20:57
wispygalaxymy last gnome desktop was with ubuntuNov 17 20:57
wispygalaxyi've been using debian longer than ubuntuNov 17 20:57
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wispygalaxyi had to restartNov 17 21:09
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_goblinsorry wispygalaxy I missed your comment!  Hi!Nov 17 21:36
wispygalaxyhey what's up?Nov 17 21:36
wispygalaxyi have some free time todayNov 17 21:36
wispygalaxydecided to stop byNov 17 21:36
wispygalaxyi havent seen roy in a whileNov 17 21:37
_goblinnot much...........Nov 17 21:37
schestowitzHeyNov 17 21:37
schestowitzJust one minute...Nov 17 21:37
wispygalaxyhi roy!Nov 17 21:37
wispygalaxy:DNov 17 21:37
_goblin:)Nov 17 21:37
wispygalaxysure Nov 17 21:37
schestowitzFinishing something.Nov 17 21:37
wispygalaxythere's a meteor shower tonightNov 17 21:38
wispygalaxythe astronomy club is hosting a mini- party on the roof of the science building at my schoolNov 17 21:38
wispygalaxyi havent seen a meteor shower in yearsNov 17 21:39
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schestowitzOK, done: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/17/fedora-12/Nov 17 21:44
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schestowitzWhat's up, wispygalaxyNov 17 21:45
wispygalaxyi'm doing fine, roy :)Nov 17 21:45
wispygalaxyhow's your life?Nov 17 21:45
wispygalaxyeverything ok?Nov 17 21:45
schestowitzYes, great.Nov 17 21:45
wispygalaxyvacation is coming up for me (thankgiving)Nov 17 21:45
wispygalaxythen i have final examsNov 17 21:45
wispygalaxythis semester is over next monthNov 17 21:46
schestowitz[21:37] <wispygalaxy> i havent seen roy in a whileNov 17 21:46
schestowitzHave you ever?Nov 17 21:46
wispygalaxyyeah, i wanted to talk with you ;)Nov 17 21:46
schestowitzYes, but you didn't see meNov 17 21:47
wispygalaxyschool is hectic these daysNov 17 21:47
wispygalaxyi wanted to :(Nov 17 21:47
schestowitzI guess most people judge me by words I type inNov 17 21:47
schestowitzOr grilling only in audio, i.e. me being cornered by conformists :-)Nov 17 21:47
wispygalaxythe best way to know someone is to see them in personNov 17 21:48
schestowitzwispygalaxy: maybe I need to shift a little more to other areasNov 17 21:48
schestowitzI'm temptedNov 17 21:48
wispygalaxylike where?Nov 17 21:48
schestowitzWars and corrupt financial institutions are increasingly a problem tooNov 17 21:48
wispygalaxyi saw the floss weekly podcast, you were fine!Nov 17 21:48
schestowitzMicrosoft is on its way down anyone, sadly to be partly replaced by other evil doers like AppleNov 17 21:49
wispygalaxyyes, i hope things will turn out ok.  obama can't solve everything!Nov 17 21:49
schestowitzTHe problem is something to do with delegations of powerNov 17 21:49
wispygalaxypeople are brainwashed into thinking Apple's coolNov 17 21:49
schestowitzPoliticians love to be corrupted ($$)Nov 17 21:49
schestowitzFreedom and honesty don't offer bribes and campaign moneyNov 17 21:49
wispygalaxywe try to elect the best guys, but they dont listen to us!Nov 17 21:50
schestowitzThat's why we have Blackwarer &Gang slaughtering people for big moneyNov 17 21:50
schestowitzwispygalaxy: you don'tNov 17 21:50
schestowitzThey fool peopleNov 17 21:50
schestowitzThey are best... at PRNov 17 21:50
schestowitzObama is given a Nobel prize for peace while allowing murder of civilians to be carried out by drones, for exampleNov 17 21:51
schestowitzIt's truly comedy... if it were not so tragicNov 17 21:51
wispygalaxyyeah obama did not deserve that prizeNov 17 21:51
wispygalaxypeople sill think the iraw was was ok?!  that's deludedNov 17 21:52
wispygalaxywhat happened to sudan (darfur)?Nov 17 21:53
wispygalaxyi remember in high school there were fundraisers, now there's nothingNov 17 21:53
wispygalaxypeople move onto another tragedy in the worldNov 17 21:54
wispygalaxywhen one gets "boring"Nov 17 21:54
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yes, well...Nov 17 21:56
schestowitzI'd have to read up about what Obama did for peaceNov 17 21:56
schestowitzI'm sure there's somethingNov 17 21:56
wispygalaxymaybe...Nov 17 21:56
schestowitzBut I suspect people without 'celebrity status' did a lot more than him _given their personal capacity_Nov 17 21:57
schestowitzNobel prizes tend to be given to people who can give speeches and 'stuff'Nov 17 21:57
wispygalaxyyes, the visible people get the praiseNov 17 21:57
wispygalaxyit does help to have charmNov 17 21:57
schestowitzIt's an orgy of powerNov 17 21:57
schestowitzRich people give medals to other rich peopleNov 17 21:57
schestowitzIt's a tradition, a ritualNov 17 21:58
wispygalaxyhehNov 17 21:58
schestowitzThose who received the prize reciprocateNov 17 21:58
schestowitzBy recognition, PR, or other prizesNov 17 21:58
wispygalaxyrich people exchange things with each other in the stock market, tooNov 17 21:58
wispygalaxycircle jerk :(Nov 17 21:58
schestowitzRoyal Society was like that for... well, forever... as long as it has existedNov 17 21:58
schestowitzThey find new medals to make an excuse for wine parties and cufflinksNov 17 21:58
wispygalaxydont we have wine parties in digg whenever a new release comes out?  :)Nov 17 21:59
schestowitzSo did Obama get a million or whatever for that Nobel prize?Nov 17 21:59
wispygalaxyfrom Wine HQNov 17 22:00
schestowitzDOes he need that?Nov 17 22:00
schestowitzHe gets a lot of money from corporatists who bribe himNov 17 22:00
wispygalaxyhe's spoiled :PNov 17 22:00
schestowitzLike Ballmers (Steve and his wife), the Gateses and Brad Smith...Nov 17 22:00
schestowitz$50,000 each Nov 17 22:00
schestowitzAnd Michelle made money from having breakfast with K-street peopleNov 17 22:00
schestowitzIt's disgustingNov 17 22:00
wispygalaxythey are milking as much as they canNov 17 22:01
schestowitzNot an Obama family issue, many presidential families are whorryNov 17 22:01
schestowitzHow much does Bill Clinton still make per speech?Nov 17 22:01
wispygalaxycelebs do that, the spotlight dims eventuallyNov 17 22:01
wispygalaxyi don't know, but i know he still does themNov 17 22:01
wispygalaxyi wanted to read "my life"Nov 17 22:02
wispygalaxylolNov 17 22:02
wispygalaxybut i didn't get around to itNov 17 22:02
schestowitzWHose life? Bill's book?Nov 17 22:02
schestowitzThey always have booksNov 17 22:02
schestowitzMany of them doNov 17 22:02
wispygalaxyclinton's bookNov 17 22:02
schestowitzPutting their thesis/doctrine down in a book with editors and stuffNov 17 22:02
wispygalaxymy sister read the nicole richie book "The Truth About Diamonds" http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Diamonds-Novel/dp/0060820489Nov 17 22:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 22:03
schestowitzBooks are *so* yesterday... their form of publication is hard to parseNov 17 22:03
wispygalaxyit's all about e-paper!Nov 17 22:03
schestowitzBooks will be a peripheral legacy one dayNov 17 22:03
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schestowitzLike we now treat glyphsNov 17 22:04
schestowitze-books don't usually contain structure and linkageNov 17 22:04
schestowitzSame with old booksNov 17 22:04
schestowitzPeople want to guide their reading, not to be guided linearlyNov 17 22:04
wispygalaxywith paper books, i always want to do "ctrl-F" to find somethingNov 17 22:05
schestowitzWe have the advantage now of structuring explanations like D&D games with decision nodesNov 17 22:05
wispygalaxyi hate having to scan the text to find a specific wordNov 17 22:05
schestowitzwispygalaxy: good luck also sending passages to mates if yuo like themNov 17 22:05
wispygalaxyhaha yesNov 17 22:05
schestowitzI find it limiting when I can't share something I read and likesNov 17 22:05
schestowitzYouTube has been convenient for fast sharing of audiovisual things I likeNov 17 22:06
wispygalaxyi have to scan it or type it outNov 17 22:06
schestowitzIn the past you could only refer to $program that you saw at $timeNov 17 22:06
wispygalaxyyoutube is great, i hope it doesnt shut downNov 17 22:06
schestowitzwispygalaxy: yes, scanningNov 17 22:06
schestowitzI had some people scan stuff and mail this to meNov 17 22:06
schestowitzTediousNov 17 22:06
schestowitzYouTube is one of manyNov 17 22:06
wispygalaxyi never faxed in my lifeNov 17 22:06
schestowitzIt can't be shut downNov 17 22:06
schestowitzOthers will prevailNov 17 22:06
wispygalaxywe wont be silenced!Nov 17 22:07
schestowitzMaybe you're too young for fax daysNov 17 22:07
wispygalaxyoh yeahNov 17 22:07
schestowitzI had to fax for confirmation of paper submissions to the IEEE for exampleNov 17 22:07
schestowitzAlso for some employersNov 17 22:07
schestowitzPeople trust stupid paper copiesNov 17 22:07
wispygalaxyhow's your thesis? :)Nov 17 22:07
schestowitzPaper goes in, comes up with toner stainsNov 17 22:07
schestowitzThey call it "Reliable"Nov 17 22:07
schestowitz"Paper trail"Nov 17 22:07
wispygalaxyit's yuckyNov 17 22:08
schestowitzwispygalaxy: been finished for agesNov 17 22:08
wispygalaxyreally?  congrats :DNov 17 22:08
wispygalaxywhen will the phd arriveNov 17 22:08
schestowitzWhen people take 8 months to find time to read through, then time is not an issue, unless you press them, which I don';tNov 17 22:09
schestowitzI'm not hurryingNov 17 22:09
_goblinRoy, what was your thesis on?Nov 17 22:09
wispygalaxyoh, so they are the slow ones :PNov 17 22:09
schestowitzNoNov 17 22:09
schestowitzThe slow ones do the work slowlyNov 17 22:09
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wispygalaxyand the COLA trolls yell at you for being a "drop out"Nov 17 22:10
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schestowitzThis is beauracracyNov 17 22:10
wispygalaxyi want to see the COLA trolls' expression when you say that you got your ph.dNov 17 22:10
schestowitzCOLA trolls also yell at me for being "child molester", "transgendered", and who knows what else.Nov 17 22:10
wispygalaxythey always bother you about that, they need to bugger off!Nov 17 22:11
schestowitzThey'll fabricate something elseNov 17 22:11
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wispygalaxyi'm amused that the trolls attacked me so angrily, lolNov 17 22:11
wispygalaxyi was innocently advocating Linux, and i get screamed atNov 17 22:12
schestowitzYes, that's what they doNov 17 22:12
schestowitzIncitement leads to angerNov 17 22:12
schestowitzAnger leads to hatredNov 17 22:12
schestowitzHatred leads to disputeNov 17 22:13
wispygalaxydo they hate me?Nov 17 22:13
schestowitzThey provokeNov 17 22:13
schestowitzJust killfile their msgsNov 17 22:13
wispygalaxythey are mean :(Nov 17 22:13
wispygalaxytheir messages are hilarious, thoughNov 17 22:13
wispygalaxythey aren't winning, but they think they "own" the advocatesNov 17 22:13
schestowitzOthers are harassed tooNov 17 22:14
schestowitzIt happens with self expressionNov 17 22:14
_goblinIve just had the wintrolls go for an innocent twitter user who has no computing interest and is one of my followers...Nov 17 22:14
schestowitzHere in the UK people are bothered and photographed for expressing dissenting opinionsNov 17 22:14
schestowitzI'm lucky that the trolls have no dirt on meNov 17 22:14
wispygalaxywhat happened goblin?  that's not nice of them!Nov 17 22:14
schestowitzThey make stuff up cause they can't come up with anythingNov 17 22:14
_goblinThey tried to imply I was flirting with another user (sazzlerock)Nov 17 22:15
wispygalaxythe trolls say that your site will be shut down... lolNov 17 22:15
wispygalaxylike that will ever happen!Nov 17 22:15
_goblinlolNov 17 22:15
wispygalaxyyou keep on saying the truth royNov 17 22:15
schestowitzThe trolls say many thingsNov 17 22:16
schestowitzThey are like bullies in masksNov 17 22:16
_goblinnot very frightening though....Nov 17 22:16
wispygalaxythat's lame of the trolls, goblin, even i wouldnt believe that !Nov 17 22:16
schestowitzReminds me of those people in 'caves' when I come to think of it :-)Nov 17 22:16
schestowitz_goblin: I saw you bothered by some dudeNov 17 22:16
_goblinRichardNov 17 22:17
schestowitz"Richard" IIRCNov 17 22:17
schestowitzYeah, beat me to itNov 17 22:17
_goblinand he's helped prove a pointNov 17 22:17
wispygalaxywho's richard?Nov 17 22:17
_goblinhe's not bothered me at all!Nov 17 22:17
schestowitzNo-one knowsNov 17 22:17
schestowitzThere are many RichardsNov 17 22:17
wispygalaxyanonymous coward?Nov 17 22:17
schestowitz_goblin: he's a DickNov 17 22:17
_goblinhe's now highlighting to the non-it folk the lengths the MS faithful will go to.Nov 17 22:17
schestowitzRichard=DickNov 17 22:17
wispygalaxylol goblin!Nov 17 22:17
wispygalaxyyeah i got that one :)Nov 17 22:17
schestowitz_goblin: don't let anyone push you aroundNov 17 22:18
_goblinI don't....Nov 17 22:18
schestowitzif that happens it usually means you've struck a nerveNov 17 22:18
_goblinlike I say...I wish I could speak with you.....Nov 17 22:18
wispygalaxyfight them back with your sharp wordsNov 17 22:18
schestowitzUnless you are proven totally incorrect, it means you should stick to the topicNov 17 22:19
schestowitzPeople bark when they feel threatenedNov 17 22:19
_goblinI noticed Icaza had a pop at Roy.....Nov 17 22:19
wispygalaxypoor roy :(Nov 17 22:19
_goblinwith the steriods comment...Nov 17 22:19
wispygalaxyroy doesn't fall down easily, he's toughNov 17 22:19
schestowitzHaNov 17 22:19
schestowitzLibelNov 17 22:19
schestowitzLookNov 17 22:19
_goblinlies I know....Nov 17 22:19
wispygalaxy;)Nov 17 22:19
wispygalaxyis there a link for that?Nov 17 22:19
schestowitzThat Miguel takes crack in Novell's lavatories if none of my businessNov 17 22:19
schestowitz:-)Nov 17 22:19
schestowitzSee?Nov 17 22:19
schestowitzThat was easy.Nov 17 22:19
_goblinall I will say is just like Jo, Icaza will eventually answer to:Nov 17 22:20
_goblin"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again"Nov 17 22:20
wispygalaxyroy, you are always calm and collectedNov 17 22:20
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schestowitzYou are tooNov 17 22:21
schestowitzThe trolls try to raise your temperatureNov 17 22:21
_goblinif you want to see something nearly as cringe worthy as the Windows 7 party ads:Nov 17 22:21
wispygalaxyaww thanks!  :)Nov 17 22:21
_goblinhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSAXEVXvNz8Nov 17 22:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 22:21
schestowitzApply Occam's razorNov 17 22:21
wispygalaxyhaha roy!Nov 17 22:21
schestowitzYou'll also save time this way.Nov 17 22:21
_goblinsubmitted by Chew on my site....great link!Nov 17 22:21
_goblinI think I'll tweet that...Nov 17 22:21
wispygalaxythe trolls are interested in me... but i can stand up for myself!Nov 17 22:22
schestowitzI can't watch it, it's embarrassingNov 17 22:22
schestowitzA bunch of obedience monkeys dancing for monkeyboy :-)Nov 17 22:22
schestowitzTaking close-to-minimum wage for people who break the law above themNov 17 22:22
schestowitzMicrosoft has just been 'attacked' by the main standard official in DKNov 17 22:23
schestowitzTheir corruption is not tolerated so muchNov 17 22:23
wispygalaxywhat's dk, roy?Nov 17 22:23
schestowitzDenmarkNov 17 22:23
wispygalaxyah, thxNov 17 22:23
schestowitzMicrosoft has many shills there, tooNov 17 22:23
schestowitzThey also had BRM delegatesNov 17 22:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] 2nd prize for the most cringe worthy of 2009? (1st taken by Windows 7 party ads IMO) http://tinyurl.com/y8baugx #microsoft #fail #windowsNov 17 22:23
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_goblinIts a great vid....shows how dignity is sold for an MS paycheck....Nov 17 22:23
schestowitz3/4 being Microsoft partner, IIRCNov 17 22:23
schestowitz*nersNov 17 22:23
wispygalaxywhy do people suck up to MS??  they are too blind to see the awesomeness of FOSSNov 17 22:24
schestowitzPropagandaNov 17 22:24
schestowitzSimple.Nov 17 22:24
schestowitzThey are told liesNov 17 22:24
wispygalaxy$$$$ i know  :(Nov 17 22:24
schestowitzI heard some example from someone who befriended a guy from MicrosoftNov 17 22:24
_goblinI think the only advocates of MS technologies are those paid to advocate it.....or at least those "gifted" to obedienceNov 17 22:24
schestowitzThey are being serve  brainwash, like in most companiesNov 17 22:24
schestowitzOtherwise they cannot maintain workNov 17 22:24
wispygalaxyi'll never let a corporation brainwash meNov 17 22:25
_goblin"Give a man a fish he will eat for a day.....Give him a laptop and he'll pimp Microsoft products" - GoblinNov 17 22:25
wispygalaxyi can find truth about various firms onlineNov 17 22:25
wispygalaxyhaNov 17 22:26
wispygalaxyi want a netbook, thoughNov 17 22:26
wispygalaxythis laptop i have is too bigNov 17 22:26
schestowitzNov 17 22:26
schestowitz[22:25] <wispygalaxy> i'll never let a corporation brainwash meNov 17 22:26
schestowitzwispygalaxy: sadly, you probably areNov 17 22:26
wispygalaxynoooooooooooo!Nov 17 22:26
schestowitzIf you read the paper, that's already an instance as suchNov 17 22:26
wispygalaxywell, these days i try to avoid mainstream mediaNov 17 22:27
schestowitzLove thy neighbour, explain how things workNov 17 22:27
wispygalaxyyeahNov 17 22:27
schestowitz_goblin: nice catchy oneNov 17 22:27
schestowitzwispygalaxy: sometimes I have to cite it thoughNov 17 22:27
schestowitzPeople tend to trust 'big' sitesNov 17 22:27
wispygalaxydo they charge you $500 per word?  Nov 17 22:28
wispygalaxythey want to....Nov 17 22:28
schestowitzThose that stick to the "official" storiesNov 17 22:28
schestowitzMe?Nov 17 22:28
wispygalaxyyes hahaNov 17 22:28
schestowitzNo, I had a good discussion about this in the afternnon actuallyNov 17 22:28
schestowitzThere's this friend of mine who thinks alike but more twice my ageNov 17 22:28
wispygalaxymurdoch wants to squeeze every penny out of people to use his newsNov 17 22:29
schestowitzHe does realise that old days of information barriers are goneNov 17 22:29
schestowitzThe dinosaur (Murdoch) is proof of thisNov 17 22:29
wispygalaxyyay!Nov 17 22:29
schestowitzIt's not HIS newsNov 17 22:29
schestowitzSee? Nov 17 22:29
schestowitzThat's the misconceptionNov 17 22:29
wispygalaxyyou are an example of this: your blog.  Nov 17 22:29
schestowitzThey are exploiting peopleNov 17 22:29
schestowitz"Exploiting"Nov 17 22:29
wispygalaxyyou tell the truth, and no one can stop youNov 17 22:29
schestowitzThose whom they write about deserve the story cashNov 17 22:29
wispygalaxycut out the middleman!Nov 17 22:30
schestowitzCause WSJ is using their stories to make papersNov 17 22:30
schestowitzNoNov 17 22:30
schestowitzI mean, sort of metaphoricallyNov 17 22:30
schestowitzWHo makes news?Nov 17 22:30
wispygalaxyfsck the RIAANov 17 22:30
schestowitzNot the papersNov 17 22:30
wispygalaxylolNov 17 22:30
schestowitzEvents.Nov 17 22:30
schestowitzPeople.Nov 17 22:30
schestowitzSo the news has debt to theseNov 17 22:30
schestowitzNot that any will be paidNov 17 22:30
wispygalaxycelebrities who want 15 minutes of fame create newsNov 17 22:30
wispygalaxyfake news :(Nov 17 22:30
schestowitzThe accusations therefore that blogs 'steal' stories is hypocrisy shining throughNov 17 22:31
schestowitzwispygalaxy: no, being on 'telly' is not goodNov 17 22:31
wispygalaxyyesNov 17 22:31
schestowitzIt's expression of opinion that countsNov 17 22:31
schestowitzMoview stars sometimes feel depreavesNov 17 22:31
schestowitzThey are not themselvesNov 17 22:31
schestowitzThey don't choose what to sayNov 17 22:31
wispygalaxya lot of people still watch TV, it's a good way to be knownNov 17 22:31
schestowitzThey are sent scriptsNov 17 22:31
schestowitzThey parrot theseNov 17 22:31
schestowitzfew of them express opinionsNov 17 22:31
wispygalaxybut i dont have  a tv in my dorm, i watch everything onlineNov 17 22:32
schestowitzThen get discouragedNov 17 22:32
schestowitzLike celebs who expressed political opinion and aliented half their fansNov 17 22:32
wispygalaxythr trolls say you havea script :(Nov 17 22:32
schestowitzThey need to be obedient and stick to linesNov 17 22:32
schestowitzIf the chaRACTER they play is bad, that's OK.... cause it's just a movieNov 17 22:32
schestowitzYou won't hate Di Niro for playing an assassinNov 17 22:32
wispygalaxyyeah, it's all a fantasyNov 17 22:32
schestowitzwispygalaxy: I have no scriptsNov 17 22:33
schestowitzThey do Big Lie methodsNov 17 22:33
wispygalaxyi was making fun of the trolls lolNov 17 22:33
schestowitzRepeating and duplicating the liesNov 17 22:33
schestowitzMagnification of flasehoodsNov 17 22:33
wispygalaxythe trolls repeat the same things over and over againNov 17 22:33
wispygalaxyzzzzzNov 17 22:33
schestowitzThey do?Nov 17 22:33
schestowitzWell, use filtersNov 17 22:33
wispygalaxyhaha you have them in your killfileNov 17 22:34
schestowitzThere's good stuff in COLA for all I knowNov 17 22:34
schestowitzTHe rest I just don't seeNov 17 22:34
schestowitzwispygalaxy: some of their is libel, some just noiseNov 17 22:34
wispygalaxyi want to see what everyone is saying about me, thoughNov 17 22:34
wispygalaxytrueNov 17 22:34
schestowitzThey can express an opinion (free speech), I don't need to listenNov 17 22:34
schestowitzAnd if they are paid for it, they belong in prisonNov 17 22:34
schestowitzI can't stand AstroTurfingNov 17 22:35
schestowitzit's too prevalent in politicsNov 17 22:35
wispygalaxyi prefer real grass :PNov 17 22:35
schestowitzIt kills many people (See healthcare reform debate)Nov 17 22:35
wispygalaxyastroturf = fake grassNov 17 22:35
schestowitzThere's the recurring talking point, "it's the best system we have'Nov 17 22:36
schestowitzThey use it to defend corruptionNov 17 22:36
wispygalaxyi'm so confused about the health care bill... it's going to be a long readNov 17 22:36
schestowitzAnother is, "hate the game, not the player" or it's "the real world".... something along these linesNov 17 22:36
schestowitzThat's a tired defenceNov 17 22:36
schestowitz"Women are cooks for their husband,.. deal with it"Nov 17 22:36
wispygalaxythe game is made up of playersNov 17 22:37
schestowitz"The slaves like to work for us... it liberates them"Nov 17 22:37
wispygalaxylose the players, and the game's overNov 17 22:37
wispygalaxyugh :(Nov 17 22:37
schestowitz"THe <enter ethnicity of 'brown people' as Carlin calls them> love us, we give them rail, and electricity and stuff"Nov 17 22:37
wispygalaxyand then we blow them up again in warsNov 17 22:38
schestowitzSoftware tooNov 17 22:38
schestowitzShackleware is advocated under the premise it permeated too muchNov 17 22:38
wispygalaxysoftware will be a global effort, with all types of people participatingNov 17 22:38
schestowitzwispygalaxy: not "blow up", "save from vicious dictators"Nov 17 22:38
wispygalaxywho cares if MS software is everywhere, 20 years ago we had different software as the majority.  tech changes fastNov 17 22:39
schestowitzWho are often not dictators (c/f CHavez), or even ones installed as puppet/befriended by the West (e.g. Saddam)Nov 17 22:39
wispygalaxyhaha true roy, nice euphemismNov 17 22:39
schestowitz"Freedom has a cost"Nov 17 22:39
schestowitzAnother good lineNov 17 22:39
schestowitz"They died in the battle"Nov 17 22:39
schestowitzThat's good for justifying death of civiliansNov 17 22:40
wispygalaxyfreedom has "Free" in it, it shouldnt cost anything!Nov 17 22:40
schestowitzNopeNov 17 22:40
schestowitzNot in warsNov 17 22:40
schestowitzIn wars it's about soreintyNov 17 22:40
wispygalaxywe the taxpayer foor the billNov 17 22:40
schestowitz"Freedom" is euphemism for "taking orders from the West"Nov 17 22:40
wispygalaxy:(Nov 17 22:40
wispygalaxyfoot*Nov 17 22:40
schestowitz"Instability" is code word for "situation that we do not like"Nov 17 22:41
schestowitz"Escalation of viollence" tend to conveniently disguise causeNov 17 22:41
schestowitzSometimes oppression/occupationNov 17 22:41
schestowitz[22:40] <wispygalaxy> we the taxpayer foor the billNov 17 22:41
schestowitzThat's goodNov 17 22:41
schestowitzThey love itNov 17 22:41
schestowitzThey are happy, happy peopleNov 17 22:42
schestowitzBut fearfulNov 17 22:42
schestowitzThey love to "Support The Troops" (C)Nov 17 22:42
schestowitzAnd they shop Under They Drop(TM) to save the economyNov 17 22:42
schestowitz"Save the economy" = pass wealth to ascending classNov 17 22:42
wispygalaxywhy do they care about a country across the world that has no impact on their daily lives?Nov 17 22:42
wispygalaxypeople cant even find iraq on a mapNov 17 22:42
schestowitzIraq is neat the country called "Africa" right?Nov 17 22:43
wispygalaxylol!Nov 17 22:43
schestowitzThey ride elephants and "Stuff"Nov 17 22:43
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schestowitzLike in the game Age of EmpiresNov 17 22:43
wispygalaxysome people say "african nation" though in some reggae songsNov 17 22:43
schestowitzComputer games are good educational resourcesNov 17 22:43
schestowitzThey improve coordnationNov 17 22:44
wispygalaxythey also sing about marcus garveyNov 17 22:44
schestowitzAiming at targetsNov 17 22:44
schestowitzwispygalaxy: do you LIKE big guns?Nov 17 22:44
wispygalaxyonly if they dont hurt!  Nov 17 22:44
schestowitzDo you want to play a game where you blow and mame people?Nov 17 22:44
wispygalaxyi'll never hurt innocentsNov 17 22:44
schestowitzY'know like murder people of other races? If so, go to the nearest game store... the brave ones join the armyNov 17 22:45
wispygalaxypoor people are usually recruitedNov 17 22:45
schestowitzwispygalaxy: there is no "innocents"Nov 17 22:45
wispygalaxythey go to inner city high schoolsNov 17 22:45
schestowitzBush called them "bad guys"Nov 17 22:45
schestowitzThey are badNov 17 22:45
schestowitz"Iraq is behind 9/11..."Nov 17 22:45
wispygalaxyyeah rightNov 17 22:45
wispygalaxylolNov 17 22:45
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schestowitzSaddam never shook hands with Rumsfeld :-)Nov 17 22:45
wispygalaxyyou have to choose your friends wiselyNov 17 22:46
wispygalaxyso roy, are you going to see the meteor shower tonight?Nov 17 22:46
schestowitzBut anyway, that's old news... too old for Fox and ORLY to show you :-) :-)Nov 17 22:46
schestowitzNopeNov 17 22:46
wispygalaxywhy not?!?Nov 17 22:46
schestowitzI'm going to just do some posts, which is funNov 17 22:46
wispygalaxyit's going to be a blastNov 17 22:46
schestowitzMeteor showers =  too passiveNov 17 22:46
schestowitzCOme over, we'll go watch them :-)Nov 17 22:47
MinceRMeteor SwarmNov 17 22:47
wispygalaxyno no, enjoy the night sky with brilliant lightsNov 17 22:47
wispygalaxyhaha roy!Nov 17 22:47
schestowitzMaybe one will crash into a nearby planetNov 17 22:47
schestowitzWear sunglassesNov 17 22:47
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@219.144.dsl.brs.iprimus.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellNov 17 22:47
wispygalaxyid like to hang out w/ youNov 17 22:47
schestowitzCould get kinda bright and radiative there for a momentNov 17 22:47
schestowitzoiaohm is BACK.Nov 17 22:48
wispygalaxyhey oiaohmNov 17 22:48
schestowitzoiaohm: wispygalaxy would love to hand out w/ youNov 17 22:48
schestowitz*hangNov 17 22:48
schestowitzNot hang, but hey...Nov 17 22:48
schestowitz*Hang outNov 17 22:48
wispygalaxyhang*Nov 17 22:48
schestowitzWhy?Nov 17 22:48
schestowitzHe's a nice guyNov 17 22:48
wispygalaxylol :)Nov 17 22:48
schestowitzHitcham says he has a big headNov 17 22:48
oiaohmhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091116121914292  << this is nice about GPLNov 17 22:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 22:49
oiaohmHi wispygalaxy and schestowitzNov 17 22:49
wispygalaxylmaoNov 17 22:49
wispygalaxyhowdyNov 17 22:49
schestowitzG'dayNov 17 22:49
schestowitzwispygalaxy: howdy is kinda too westernNov 17 22:49
wispygalaxyus and uk greetingsNov 17 22:49
schestowitzFor oiaohm it's wednesadayNov 17 22:49
wispygalaxyi rarely say howdy Nov 17 22:49
wispygalaxyit's still tuesday hereNov 17 22:50
wispygalaxyclasses were booooringNov 17 22:50
oiaohmThe date lineNov 17 22:50
wispygalaxyi cant wait for next semester, then i have fun classesNov 17 22:50
oiaohmGMT +10 here wispygalaxyNov 17 22:50
schestowitzWhat classes?Nov 17 22:50
wispygalaxyi'm -5 GMTNov 17 22:50
schestowitzYou can get your classes in paper, video, speechNov 17 22:51
oiaohmSo I am 15 hours ahead of you wispygalaxyNov 17 22:51
wispygalaxyfinance, management, accounting, business stuffNov 17 22:51
schestowitzWhat stays with you  after 5 years is the sum of what you learnedNov 17 22:51
wispygalaxywhere do you live, oiaohmNov 17 22:51
wispygalaxyim in the us Nov 17 22:51
oiaohmAustralia wispygalaxyNov 17 22:52
wispygalaxyi though so :)Nov 17 22:52
wispygalaxythought*Nov 17 22:52
wispygalaxyi hate this keyboardNov 17 22:52
oiaohmCould be worse its keys could stick wispygalaxyNov 17 22:52
wispygalaxythe thing is that the keys arent small, it's that they are too slipperyNov 17 22:53
wispygalaxysticky keys are bad too :(Nov 17 22:53
wispygalaxythey keys feel soapy almost, i prefer more plasticy keysNov 17 22:53
oiaohmSo metal keys.Nov 17 22:54
oiaohmNice pair of thin leather gloves works well on them.Nov 17 22:54
wispygalaxyreminds me of michael jackson , the glove :PNov 17 22:54
wispygalaxyi havent really used metal keysNov 17 22:55
oiaohmFor some reason particular leathers stick better to the slippery keys.Nov 17 22:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Household chemicals turning boys all girly http://notnews.today.com/?p=741Nov 17 22:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 22:55
oiaohmYes it should be worse feel with gloves on but this is the exception to rule.Nov 17 22:55
wispygalaxymy mom has gloves to wear when she drives, they are sun glovesNov 17 22:56
wispygalaxyi only wear gloves when its really cold outsideNov 17 22:56
oiaohmwispygalaxy:  I do a lot of IT repair stuff from time to time.Nov 17 22:57
oiaohmOn laptops and other things.Nov 17 22:57
oiaohmSo I have a stack of dirty tricks for nasty keyboards.Nov 17 22:57
wispygalaxyi try to keep my keyboard clean!Nov 17 22:57
oiaohmWhat are you using to clean.Nov 17 22:57
wispygalaxyi use a feather dusterNov 17 22:58
oiaohmSome cleaning products make the keyboard unbarablely slip.Nov 17 22:58
wispygalaxyis that ok?Nov 17 22:58
wispygalaxythe dusterNov 17 22:58
wispygalaxyi never used chemicals on my keyboardNov 17 22:58
oiaohmsome of those cause static on keyboard.Nov 17 22:58
oiaohmCausing fine dust to stick.Nov 17 22:58
wispygalaxyah i seeNov 17 22:58
oiaohmAnd make it slipperly as hell.Nov 17 22:58
wispygalaxybut i more often use a tissueNov 17 22:59
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oiaohmDon't that gives you fine fibers as well that are slippery wispygalaxyNov 17 22:59
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wispygalaxyi dont really have the problem of a dirty keyboard since i use the laptop with clean handsNov 17 22:59
oiaohmA proper miro fiber cloth wispygalaxyNov 17 22:59
wispygalaxyyeah, i should get one of those, good ideaNov 17 22:59
oiaohmThey don't cost much and you use them to clean screen as well.Nov 17 23:00
wispygalaxyi try not to touch the screen with my fingersNov 17 23:00
oiaohmYou don't need to touch it.Nov 17 23:00
oiaohmStatic of screen operation attracts dust.Nov 17 23:00
wispygalaxywhen i was younger, i'd do it a lot b/c i'd play games with my sisters and point to stuff on the screenNov 17 23:00
oiaohmAlso tissues have the habbit of sandign the keys smoother.Nov 17 23:01
oiaohmSo would have been making your problem worse.Nov 17 23:02
wispygalaxywhen i shop for a new computer, i'll make sure to test the keyboard properlyNov 17 23:02
oiaohmPeople forget how painfull there nose gets from blowing it on tissues from a cold.Nov 17 23:02
wispygalaxyi went for the cool looking laptopNov 17 23:02
wispygalaxyyes, the nose gets a rashNov 17 23:02
oiaohmIts party caused by the tissues sanding the skin off.Nov 17 23:03
wispygalaxylotion tissues helpNov 17 23:03
wispygalaxyi use those to clean my screen ;)Nov 17 23:03
wispygalaxykiddingNov 17 23:03
wispygalaxythat would mess up the screenNov 17 23:03
oiaohmIso tissues are fine for screens.Nov 17 23:03
oiaohmNasty on nose.Nov 17 23:03
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wispygalaxyi stick with regular tissuesNov 17 23:04
wispygalaxywith a funky box design, it matches my room :PNov 17 23:04
oiaohmIso ones have to be kept in fridge or they dry out.Nov 17 23:05
oiaohmThey are good for getting finger prints off.Nov 17 23:06
wispygalaxyfinger prints are annoying Nov 17 23:06
oiaohmYou know those perfect metal shine cases.Nov 17 23:06
wispygalaxyyepNov 17 23:06
oiaohmTechs worse nightmare.Nov 17 23:06
oiaohmFor picky customers.Nov 17 23:07
wispygalaxyyou should charge moeNov 17 23:07
wispygalaxymore*Nov 17 23:07
oiaohmDepends if the person is a CEO or not wispygalaxyNov 17 23:08
wispygalaxythats trueNov 17 23:09
oiaohmhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/16/piratebay_logo/  LoL the carelessNov 17 23:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 23:12
oiaohmHmm bot needs fixing.Nov 17 23:12
oiaohmIt seams not to be able to solve anything.Nov 17 23:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Razormaid. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/20753.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/534683.htmlNov 17 23:12
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 23:12
schestowitzoiaohm: let me see.Nov 17 23:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/px2st - Shot from Karmic (9.10) its Gnome loveliness...Nov 17 23:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 17 23:13
schestowitzAhNov 17 23:13
wispygalaxyphrICE is not yelling at me anymore, like he used to a couple weeks agoNov 17 23:13
schestowitztessier: DNS seems to be down againNov 17 23:13
_goblinI love how people say "you cannot steal data" when talking about copyright, yet it seems you can when its lists of customers from T-Mobile.....Do as I say not as I do?Nov 17 23:14
schestowitzwispygalaxy: submit a patch to trmanco's project to stop yelling at youNov 17 23:14
wispygalaxyawwwNov 17 23:15
wispygalaxylets work it out, phrICE.Nov 17 23:15
_goblinlolNov 17 23:15
wispygalaxyi dont want to report youNov 17 23:15
schestowitz_goblin: steal and theft are criminal offences, so people use the words sparinglyNov 17 23:15
schestowitzSame with words like "terrorism" and "conspiracy"Nov 17 23:15
_goblinagreed...Nov 17 23:16
_goblinalthough steal and data do not go together since the definition of theft is not relevant.....Nov 17 23:16
_goblin(when looking at a Sec(1) theft act offenceNov 17 23:16
_goblina little like DNA databases.....people are unhappy about their data being stored on a DNA database, but quite happy for their details to be stored so they can have a credit card.Nov 17 23:17
_goblinor a passportNov 17 23:17
_goblinIMO its all double standards...Nov 17 23:18
schestowitzwispygalaxy: btw, since you mention kids wanting tv time, well... all they do is use their vocal chords... the ones doing the speaking are those who write down the words (script).... it's like Obama 'speeches' where he just reads it off the screenNov 17 23:18
schestowitzDNA is not a bank accountNov 17 23:19
_goblinI know...Nov 17 23:19
_goblinIm talking about personal dataNov 17 23:19
_goblinand peoples resistance to having data being stored about themNov 17 23:19
_goblinunless it benefits themNov 17 23:20
_goblinI'll be honest, Im a supporter of a compulsary DNA database of all citizens.Nov 17 23:20
wispygalaxythe kids are just acting out a script, they cant express themselvesNov 17 23:20
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wispygalaxyhey wallclimber!Nov 17 23:20
wallchi!  How are you? Nov 17 23:21
_goblinbrb....Nov 17 23:21
wallcglad to see you hereNov 17 23:21
wispygalaxyfine!  roy's here too along with goblinNov 17 23:21
wispygalaxythx wallc :)Nov 17 23:21
wispygalaxysame hereNov 17 23:21
wispygalaxyi saw tony earlierNov 17 23:21
wallci just had a discussion with a customer that asked me how much it cost me to move away from Windows...I had to laugh because I honestly don't know.Nov 17 23:22
wispygalaxyit costs $0 for meNov 17 23:22
wallcI guess it only cost me time and a little brain-strain.Nov 17 23:22
wispygalaxyit was so easyNov 17 23:22
schestowitz[23:20] <_goblin> I'll be honest, Im a supporter of a compulsary DNA database of all citizensNov 17 23:23
wispygalaxythe MS fud machine didnt stop me from experiencing linuxNov 17 23:23
schestowitzWhat for?Nov 17 23:23
schestowitzReverse engineering people in the sci-fi future?Nov 17 23:23
wispygalaxythat's 1984-esqueNov 17 23:23
wallcgoblin, why???Nov 17 23:24
schestowitzMaybe _goblin wants a twin bother 100 years in the future :-)Nov 17 23:24
wallcthere are so many ways that could be used for discrimination.Nov 17 23:24
schestowitzIf we can no longer be numbers we'll be sequencesNov 17 23:25
wispygalaxyi want to be binaryNov 17 23:25
schestowitzLeaving our "sequence" instances all over the placeNov 17 23:25
wispygalaxythat's cuteNov 17 23:25
wispygalaxyhey dude you dropped your sequenceNov 17 23:25
wallcget out the vaccuumNov 17 23:26
wallccleanerNov 17 23:26
schestowitzOur atoms with nuclei  and  electrons to be catalogued by police :-)Nov 17 23:26
wispygalaxythat'll take yearsNov 17 23:26
wispygalaxyill be dead before they finish my atomsNov 17 23:26
schestowitzWe can fake our DNANov 17 23:26
schestowitzThat'll teach them!Nov 17 23:26
wispygalaxylike headers? :)Nov 17 23:27
wispygalaxyin usenetNov 17 23:27
schestowitz?Nov 17 23:28
schestowitzMaybe there should instead be a database of Swine Flu DNANov 17 23:28
schestowitzThere's fun and profit in thatNov 17 23:28
_goblinschestowitz: Funny you should say that...who will challenge the shills in 100 years when Im gone?Nov 17 23:28
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schestowitzIn fact, right about now Donald Trump gets rich from all these shotsNov 17 23:28
schestowitzFor a virus that apparently attacked in the 1950s already, so older people got their natural ammunitionNov 17 23:29
schestowitzThe more sensitive populationNov 17 23:29
schestowitzI was told this today by a biology professor at the gym.... the mainstream media pretends it's all newNov 17 23:29
Willhttp://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/11/17/2220243/Chinese-Court-Rules-Microsoft-Violated-IP-Rights?art_pos=1bNov 17 23:29
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_goblinthe thing is with DNA.....Ive yet to have a compelling reason not to have a national database...Nov 17 23:29
schestowitzAnd exaggerates the impactNov 17 23:29
schestowitzWill: thanks, will do it lateNov 17 23:30
wallcgoblin, what's a compelling reason to have one?Nov 17 23:30
schestowitz*terNov 17 23:30
_goblinIm pleased you asked....Nov 17 23:30
wallci thought you would be...lolNov 17 23:30
wallc:)Nov 17 23:30
_goblincrime detection.....pure and simple.Nov 17 23:30
_goblintheres been miscarrages of justice that would never have taken place if DNA had existed...Nov 17 23:31
Diablo-D3ermNov 17 23:31
Diablo-D3the dna existedNov 17 23:31
Diablo-D3we just couldnt read itNov 17 23:31
_goblinlolNov 17 23:31
_goblinfair playNov 17 23:31
_goblinbadly worded...Nov 17 23:31
Diablo-D3also, this is why the death penalty should be eliminatedNov 17 23:31
wallci might have agreed with that at one time, but as things are going these days, the definition of what's a "crime" seems to be expanding...Nov 17 23:31
Diablo-D3or at least, in texasNov 17 23:31
Diablo-D3texas has quite obviously executed people who were innocent and they knew were innocentNov 17 23:32
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_goblinwallc: true...Nov 17 23:32
Diablo-D3not merely "could be", but quite obviously wereNov 17 23:32
wispygalaxyprofessors work out at the gym, too, roy?Nov 17 23:32
_goblinwallc: hence the need for a compulsary national database for everyone...Nov 17 23:32
*schestowitz thinks _goblin is in British law enforcementNov 17 23:32
_goblinlolNov 17 23:32
wallcit seems like everything we do anymore is considered to be a crime by somebody (mostly corporations or governments)Nov 17 23:32
wispygalaxya spy!Nov 17 23:32
_goblin00 goblin.Nov 17 23:32
_goblinlicense to FOSSNov 17 23:32
bikedog11mr. schestowitz, you are the founder of the free software foundation, correct?Nov 17 23:33
_goblinlolNov 17 23:33
_goblinbikedog11: Yep, and he's the creator of the universe too...Nov 17 23:34
_goblinbikedog11: what a cheap bait...Nov 17 23:34
wispygalaxy"license to FOSS" haha :)Nov 17 23:34
_goblinwispygalaxy: Im sharp tonight :)Nov 17 23:35
schestowitzAgent 00goblin assigned by Scotland Yard to accompany BN, get inside, and eliminate the mono pandemicNov 17 23:35
bikedog11what?Nov 17 23:35
wispygalaxyhaha goblinNov 17 23:35
_goblinso wheres my underwater car?Nov 17 23:35
wispygalaxythey wont take me alive :PNov 17 23:35
wispygalaxycan i be the sidekick :PNov 17 23:35
schestowitz_goblin: would be better had uoi said "FLOSS"Nov 17 23:35
_goblinLotus Esprit I believe....Nov 17 23:35
bikedog11_goblin, whaddya mean "cheap bait"?Nov 17 23:35
_goblinshcestowitz: agreed...you can have that one.Nov 17 23:35
schestowitzbikedog11: you know RMS founded it, no?Nov 17 23:36
schestowitzIn the 80sNov 17 23:36
wispygalaxyrms has done a lot for the communityNov 17 23:36
bikedog11im slow in the head, i don't understand loots of things...Nov 17 23:36
bikedog11*lotsNov 17 23:36
_goblinIm sure....Nov 17 23:36
_goblincome on...Nov 17 23:36
bikedog11what?Nov 17 23:36
_goblinIm not stupid....Nov 17 23:37
_goblinyou know of FSF and think Roy founded it?Nov 17 23:37
_goblinyeah right....Nov 17 23:37
_goblinsorry....seen that trick before....Nov 17 23:37
oiaohmhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/17/microsoft_china_font_ip_infringement/   << OPPSNov 17 23:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft ordered to halt Win XP sales in China • The Register .::. Size~: 27.62 KBNov 17 23:37
Diablo-D3dudeNov 17 23:37
Diablo-D3roy once sneezed and created the universeNov 17 23:37
*phIRCe-BNc has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 17 23:37
wallcyou mean he didn't?  I am sooo disallusioned...(sigh)Nov 17 23:37
_goblinI heard that...Nov 17 23:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Works Magic When Moved Between #Hardware http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/locutus/linux-wins-the-clone-wars-35380Nov 17 23:37
*Diablo-D3 cacklesNov 17 23:37
bikedog11i use linux, i know what fsf is, i dunno what initials RMS mean... richard stallman? roy schestowitz?Nov 17 23:38
_goblinlol...Nov 17 23:38
_goblingood effort....never saw it like that...Nov 17 23:38
bikedog11?Nov 17 23:38
_goblinbut you happen to know of Boycott Novell?Nov 17 23:38
_goblinso lets look at this logically:Nov 17 23:38
wallcoh no, not LOGIC!Nov 17 23:39
oiaohmRMS  Hmm I don't think roy midle name has a M.Nov 17 23:39
wallc:)Nov 17 23:39
_goblinYou use Linux, you know of the FSF, you know of Roy and Boycott Novell yet you think Roy is responsible for the FSF......I don't know about anyone else, but Im convinced.Nov 17 23:39
wallcMe too.Nov 17 23:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Suggestion for Small Business to Adopt #GNU #Linux http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.com/buyersguide/article.php/3848646Nov 17 23:39
wispygalaxyroy's initials are RSSNov 17 23:40
wispygalaxyhey almost like RMSNov 17 23:40
_goblinbikedog11: HINT: Heres where you say we are killing FOSS.Nov 17 23:40
_goblinbikedog11: and then leave.Nov 17 23:40
Will00 _goblin, do you get all your gadgets supplied by Qt Branch?Nov 17 23:40
wallcSo, Roy is a news feed?Nov 17 23:40
wispygalaxyhaha yes he is!Nov 17 23:40
schestowitzwallc: what is? Let me catch upNov 17 23:40
_goblinwill: lol...Nov 17 23:40
bikedog11oh... it must be richard stallman then... _goblin, why would i say that, i had a simple question, no more no lessNov 17 23:40
schestowitzoiaohm: that sounds like old newsNov 17 23:41
schestowitzI think they got caught in 2007Nov 17 23:41
schestowitz$2 million fine maybeNov 17 23:41
schestowitzOr was it Blizzard?Nov 17 23:41
*jono has quit ("Ex-Chat")Nov 17 23:41
_goblinbikedog11: Oh sorry I forgot....its play the victim and then say "youre killing FOSS"Nov 17 23:41
wispygalaxyi havent met u before, bikedog11.  are you new here?Nov 17 23:41
oiaohmCaught 2007 just lost trial schestowitzNov 17 23:41
_goblinits probably Edavidburg.....Nov 17 23:41
bikedog11yeah, ive been looking around the free software community...Nov 17 23:41
bikedog11who is edavidburg?Nov 17 23:42
wispygalaxyidkNov 17 23:42
schestowitzwispygalaxy: ah, "RSS" I get it nowNov 17 23:42
wispygalaxyhehe ;)Nov 17 23:42
wispygalaxyyour names fits you wellNov 17 23:42
wallcRoy caught up!Nov 17 23:42
bikedog11oh, i see what you did there!Nov 17 23:42
bikedog11lolNov 17 23:42
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzNov 17 23:43
*Will has quit ("Page closed")Nov 17 23:43
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to wallc wispygalaxyNov 17 23:43
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzNov 17 23:43
schestowitzBN is a Web site run by ladies, bikedog11Nov 17 23:43
schestowitzLike GroklawNov 17 23:44
wispygalaxygirl powerNov 17 23:44
schestowitzGroklaw is an IBM botNov 17 23:44
schestowitzThey just take the eletricy billNov 17 23:44
wallcWait, i have to go find my cape and mask...Nov 17 23:44
wispygalaxyzorro?Nov 17 23:44
schestowitzSo that the PJ bot runs with ELIZA-like AINov 17 23:44
bikedog11you lost me there, lolNov 17 23:44
schestowitzAnd IBM funds iBilbio to run the PJ robotNov 17 23:44
schestowitzMathfox repairs the PJ botNov 17 23:44
wallcwall-orro?  where's my sword?Nov 17 23:45
wispygalaxyhey i have a @ in front of my name... im special?  :)Nov 17 23:45
wallchey, everybody knows that PJ is a team of IBM lawyers, yes?  :)Nov 17 23:45
_goblinop?Nov 17 23:45
oiaohmhttp://www.inhabitat.com/2009/11/17/scientists-create-bacteria-that-glows-to-reveal-land-mines/  Hmm good/bad?Nov 17 23:45
wispygalaxyhaha wallc you dont need one, the power of your words stuns your enemiesNov 17 23:45
schestowitzwallc: yesNov 17 23:45
schestowitzOf courseNov 17 23:45
bikedog11how do i give back to the foss community? i cant code, but i'm hella good at inkscape...Nov 17 23:45
schestowitzAnd they use a female nameNov 17 23:45
schestowitzJust like the PR industry uses womenNov 17 23:46
schestowitzThey are harder to attackNov 17 23:46
wispygalaxythe COLA trolls attack me, though :(Nov 17 23:46
schestowitzEsp. in ad hominem ways. Then it can be called harassment or misogynistNov 17 23:46
wispygalaxyim a girlNov 17 23:46
wallcWallclimber is Mighty, With Words :)Nov 17 23:46
_goblinwispygalaxy: you know you've made it when the COLA trolls go for you.Nov 17 23:46
oiaohmbikedog11: in future game coders will not need to know how to code.  It will be visual programming.Nov 17 23:46
wispygalaxyyou should be a writer, wallc ;)Nov 17 23:46
schestowitzwispygalaxy: trolls are not human beingsNov 17 23:46
_goblinI thought the COLA trolls were taking 30 days off?Nov 17 23:47
schestowitzThat's why they are called trollsNov 17 23:47
schestowitzThey don't even have namesNov 17 23:47
bikedog11cola trolls, what?Nov 17 23:47
oiaohmAnd that is close future bikedog11Nov 17 23:47
schestowitzAtomic particles are not namesNov 17 23:47
wispygalaxythey have sockpuppetsNov 17 23:47
schestowitz"Hadron"Nov 17 23:47
_goblinbad timing since its rumoured the Google OS is coming out within the week...Nov 17 23:47
wispygalaxycomp.os.linux.advocacy = COLANov 17 23:47
schestowitz_goblin: do they? :-)Nov 17 23:47
bikedog11oh...Nov 17 23:47
schestowitzbikedog11: how's the weather, man?Nov 17 23:48
wispygalaxyhadron was mean to me :(Nov 17 23:48
schestowitzMust be worm down there 8)Nov 17 23:48
oiaohmhttp://sandboxgamemaker.com/  << Good example of the way game development is going.  bikedog11 blender.org will follow.Nov 17 23:48
bikedog11pretty cold for FLANov 17 23:48
schestowitz*warmNov 17 23:48
wallcIt seems like trolls get quiet for a few weeks then they show up in droves...there must be a reason.Nov 17 23:48
wispygalaxyvista 7!Nov 17 23:48
schestowitzwallc: mating seasonNov 17 23:48
oiaohmNow I wounder if the age if visual programming will truly start.Nov 17 23:49
bikedog11i forgot, im decent at blender... i wonder if TORCS needs ant help...Nov 17 23:49
schestowitzTrolls mate w/ other trollsNov 17 23:49
wispygalaxyyuck! hahaNov 17 23:49
_goblinschestowitz: I saw a post on COLA from I think DFS saying that they were taking 30 days off to show that the NG would fall appart without them....Nov 17 23:49
*bikedog11 has quit ("Leaving.")Nov 17 23:49
schestowitzThen they lay eggs that hatch when MSO10 is releasedNov 17 23:49
wispygalaxythey are ugly, thats why they hide behind screensNov 17 23:49
wispygalaxytrollsNov 17 23:49
schestowitzThe 'harvest' of OCtober (Vista 7) was a draughtNov 17 23:49
wispygalaxyubuntu was the talk of the townNov 17 23:49
schestowitzNotice how it barely makes headlines nowNov 17 23:49
wispygalaxyroy why do i have a "@" in front of my nameNov 17 23:50
schestowitzYou really HAVE to LOOK for themNov 17 23:50
wallcwispy, because you're special!Nov 17 23:50
schestowitzwispygalaxy: you're channel opNov 17 23:50
wallcMe too  :)Nov 17 23:50
wispygalaxyawww :)Nov 17 23:50
schestowitzYou can kickban peopleNov 17 23:50
wispygalaxyim in charge!Nov 17 23:50
schestowitzWomen make good leadersNov 17 23:50
schestowitzThey don't have aggressionNov 17 23:50
schestowitzIceland voted for one to be PM/PresNov 17 23:51
wallcha ha, you haven't seen me driving the freeway...Nov 17 23:51
schestowitzMinceR is reptilian :-) He kicks with a loose canonNov 17 23:51
schestowitzwallc: that's the car, not youNov 17 23:51
wispygalaxyyepNov 17 23:51
schestowitzPressing a pedal is easyNov 17 23:51
wispygalaxythe car is at faultNov 17 23:51
schestowitzGuess which megalomaniac was arrested for speeding?Nov 17 23:52
schestowitzNot RMSNov 17 23:52
wallcBillG?Nov 17 23:52
schestowitzI wonder if RMS has a driver's licence actuallyNov 17 23:52
schestowitzI got mine at 17Nov 17 23:52
wispygalaxywho? WHO?Nov 17 23:52
wallcwispy is an owl...Nov 17 23:53
wallc:)Nov 17 23:53
wispygalaxyhaha :)Nov 17 23:53
wispygalaxyi cant twist my head 360 degrees Nov 17 23:53
wispygalaxythat would be crazyNov 17 23:53
schestowitzCan any animal do that? Other than wormy ones?Nov 17 23:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop #GNU #Linux Impresses a Newcomer http://www.contrapositivediary.com/?p=996 http://www.contrapositivediary.com/?p=998Nov 17 23:55
schestowitzLike snakes...Nov 17 23:55
oiaohmFew birds can pivot to look straight backwards.  Ie can cover the 360 no more.Nov 17 23:56
schestowitzActually, snakes probably can'tNov 17 23:56
schestowitzTheir spine won't allow it, I reckon, assuming their skeletal structure is rigidNov 17 23:56
wispygalaxythey can coil  360 degrees (or more)Nov 17 23:56
schestowitzJust head?Nov 17 23:57
wallcI had a 4th grade teacher that had eyes in the back of her head...Nov 17 23:57
schestowitz"6th sense"Nov 17 23:57
oiaohmMirrors.Nov 17 23:57
schestowitzOne of my teachers said this too.... she liedNov 17 23:57
oiaohmI have set that up on a class as well.Nov 17 23:58
schestowitzIf we had that, _goblin ought to get a DNA sample :-)Nov 17 23:58
wispygalaxywith cameras everywhere, its easy to see from the back of your headNov 17 23:58
schestowitzFor enhanced humans w/ better visual systemNov 17 23:58
oiaohmThe impressive was one teach I knew.Nov 17 23:58
wispygalaxypeople with glasses have "4 eyes", they should put 2 in the back of their headsNov 17 23:58
oiaohmcould throw black board duster over shoulder using mirror and hit the desk he as aiming at.Nov 17 23:59
oiaohmKinda did not pay to muck around in that class unless you liked incomming duster.Nov 17 23:59
wallci had a science teacher that did the same thing..he was a little scary.Nov 17 23:59
oiaohmIts only science teachers who do.Nov 17 23:59

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