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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 2nd, 2010

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard if it's any consolation, IE7 is now a browser, it's a hack/component of win32 ;-)Jan 02 00:00
schestowitz 02 00:04
_goblinschestowitz: Ive seen Ballmer put his makeup on better than that! 02 00:04
phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 02 00:04
cubezzzis simmons still doing the kiss thing?Jan 02 00:06
cubezzzthey started in 1972, wow, that's longevityJan 02 00:12
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE 4.3 on #GNU #Linux with #Compiz Fusion 8.2 (Video) #playoggJan 02 00:33
phIRCe-localTitle: KDE 4.3 on GNU/Linux with Compiz Fusion 8.2 (Video) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 86.96 KBJan 02 00:33
schestowitzcubezzz: he was incarnated :-)Jan 02 00:33
*schestowitz reckons _goblin wear KISS-esque makeup when out to the local pub !Jan 02 00:34
schestowitz 02 00:34
phIRCe-localTitle: TSA nominees data snooping raises privacy concerns |  Raw Story .::. Size~: 34.17 KBJan 02 00:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin wallclimber reads you now similar readers to BN...Jan 02 00:37
phIRCe-localTitle: Happy new year! 2010! «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 38.67 KBJan 02 00:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard see 02 00:39
phIRCe-localTitle: applies for $532,000 funding from the Knight Foundation -  for "local news" whistleblower leaks ? - WikiLeak .::. Size~: 61.91 KBJan 02 00:39
schestowitz"    The EcoMill is an all “green” manually powered treadmill that uses zero electricity. The EcoMill is completely self-contained and utilizes a battery to power the display and elevation systems. The user actually generates electricity while they are exercising which re-charges the battery." 02 00:43
phIRCe-localTitle: WOODWAY Ecomill | All Green Treadmill Requires Zero Electricity and Manual Power .::. Size~: 12.34 KBJan 02 00:43
schestowitz 02 00:45
phIRCe-localTitle: I, Cringely  » Blog Archive   » Remembering Y2K - Cringely on technology  .::. Size~: 55.64 KBJan 02 00:45
schestowitz"So I was Public Enemy Number One in October, 1999 for suggesting that Y2K would turn out to be no big deal. And what happened in January, when it became clear that my show was 100 percent correct? Nothing. Not a single e-mail came to me from any of those people."Jan 02 00:45
_goblinschestowitz: ;) ah you saw me last week then...... in my WWE costume.....Goldust - 02 00:45
phIRCe-localTitle: Goldust image by hudson_lowboy on Photobucket .::. Size~: 109.98 KBJan 02 00:45
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schestowitz 02 00:49
phIRCe-localTitle: :: Can you trust your computer? .::. Size~: 321.11 KBJan 02 00:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Moon hole might be suitable for colony" The Moon is still quite smallJan 02 00:53
phIRCe-localTitle: Moon hole might be suitable for colony - .::. Size~: 49 KBJan 02 00:53
schestowitz 02 00:57
schestowitz"Jan 02 00:57
phIRCe-localTitle: 2010 | .::. Size~: 29.19 KBJan 02 00:57
schestowitzBased on these results, Tux Machines readers are optimists.Jan 02 00:57
schestowitz2010 will be a good year... for China, Singapore, Taiwan...Jan 02 00:57
schestowitz"Jan 02 00:57
schestowitz "It makes you wonder if the thousands of hysterical people wishing Rush Limbaugh death on Twitter are feeling a little foolish. Probably not. :)"Jan 02 01:25
phIRCe-localTitle: YouTube: Rush Limbaugh Says Nothing Was Wrong | WebProNews .::. Size~: 30.18 KBJan 02 01:25
schestowitz 02 01:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Liberal Twitter Users Rejoice at Rush Limbaugh's Hospitalization | WebProNews .::. Size~: 34.28 KBJan 02 01:25
schestowitz"Bane117: Rush Limbaugh rushed to hospital w/ chest pains. Santa actually listened this year."Jan 02 01:26
schestowitz 02 01:26
phIRCe-localTitle: TSA Withdraws Subpoenas Against Bloggers | Threat Level | .::. Size~: 84.23 KBJan 02 01:26
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jan 2 01:38:40 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovellJan 02 01:38
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jan 02 01:38
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Nov 29 20:53:52 2009Jan 02 01:38
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelJan 02 01:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz I saw....Nice comment....Makes it worthwhile spending my time on my blog.Jan 02 01:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin good comment here (just noticed) How did that junk get into LXer?Jan 02 01:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "A suburban Chicago police officer Tasered a man 11 times while he was having a diabetic seizure" 02 02:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Courthouse News Service .::. Size~: 12.8 KBJan 02 02:00
cubezzzwhatJan 02 02:03
cubezzzwhat is a good graphing program for Linux?Jan 02 02:03
schestowitzdia?Jan 02 02:06
schestowitzgnuplot?Jan 02 02:06
cubezzzhmmmJan 02 02:06
schestowitz 02 02:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Iran reformist criticizes government crackdown - .::. Size~: 59.14 KBJan 02 02:09
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schestowitz 02 02:25
phIRCe-localTitle: Author William Poundstone Dissects the Marketing Tricks Built Into Balthazar's Menu -- New York Magazine .::. Size~: 59.28 KBJan 02 02:25
schestowitz 02 02:26
phIRCe-localTitle: 26C3: How you can build an eavesdropper for a quantum cryptosystem .::. Size~: 8.17 KBJan 02 02:26
schestowitzIrving's blog is underrated, IMHO. 02 02:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Irving Wladawsky-Berger: Blogging as an Exercise of the Brain .::. Size~: 41.77 KBJan 02 02:29
schestowitz 02 02:34
phIRCe-localTitle: NASA Eclipse Web Site .::. Size~: 19.28 KBJan 02 02:34
schestowitzWhat is the space temperature very far away from the stars?Jan 02 02:36
amarsh04temperature is a property of matter, so it's a bit difficult to talk of the temperature of empty spaceJan 02 02:37
schestowitzHmmmm..Jan 02 02:37
schestowitz 02 02:37
schestowitz"The short answer is that the temperature in space is approximately 2.725 Kelvin. That means the universe is generally just shy of three degrees above absolute zero – the temperature at which molecules themselves stop moving. That’s almost -270 degrees Celsius, or -455 Fahrenheit. "Jan 02 02:37
phIRCe-localTitle: What is the Temperature in Space? .::. Size~: 30.99 KBJan 02 02:37
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, I thought so, but surely to a human there's a sense of itJan 02 02:37
amarsh04I watched an animation earlier today on JPL's site on the temperature of Saturn's rings as the rings approached going edge on to the sun Jan 02 02:39
amarsh04most of the temperatures were below 100 K (-173 C)Jan 02 02:40
amarsh04I suppose also there is the concept of the background radiation from the big bang, which would heat any matter far away from stars to that 2.7 K temperatureJan 02 02:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz Im not sure. Theres been another article "20 Twitter apps for Windows". Im wondering if Lxer is now listing Windows articles?Jan 02 02:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Right thats me done for today. Good night all.....Jan 02 02:46
schestowitzGood news from Munich. 02 02:47
schestowitzgnJan 02 02:47
phIRCe-localTitle:   GNU/Linux Migration in Munich is in Good Shape at  Robert Pogson .::. Size~: 23.51 KBJan 02 02:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin yes, I noticed that 1 minute after I had pinged you. Weird!Jan 02 02:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 2010 starts on a good note: 02 02:49
phIRCe-localTitle:   GNU/Linux Migration in Munich is in Good Shape at  Robert Pogson .::. Size~: 23.51 KBJan 02 02:49
cubezzzok, I went with dia, gnucash and grace for the customerJan 02 02:52
cubezzzone of those programs should do what they wantJan 02 02:52
cubezzzI'm pleased to hear the good news from MunichJan 02 02:55
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cubezzzit's interesting the overlap between BSD and GNUJan 02 06:22
cubezzzin a few cases there are programs that look very similarJan 02 06:23
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cubezzzwow, cspan is pretty conservativeJan 02 08:23
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mikecHey roy, its mike i am just leaving for the gym, i will be in there for 9.30, see you laterJan 02 08:27
mikecHey roy, its mike i am just leaving for the gym, i will be in there for 9.30, see you laterJan 02 08:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH! @stephenfry is taking a break from twitter! What will the twitterverse do!? ;) #fbJan 02 09:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Ave atque Vale «  The New Adventures of Stephen Fry .::. Size~: 57.67 KBJan 02 09:50
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MinceR 02 10:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot News Story | Ireland's Blasphemy Law Goes Into Effect .::. Size~: 173.99 KBJan 02 10:00
MinceR 02 10:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Using Fourth-Party Data Brokers To Bypass the Fourth Amendment .::. Size~: 142.78 KBJan 02 10:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Can the peeps with Droids do Jedi Mind Tricks at Customs? <wave hand>"These are not the droids you are looking for".</wave hand>Jan 02 10:13
MinceRblizzard doesn't respect the privacy of its users >> 02 10:19
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot Games Story | Man Tracked Down and Arrested Via WoW .::. Size~: 151.04 KBJan 02 10:19
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ZeusoftHi people, happy new year!Jan 02 10:29
*Zeusoft is now known as MurlocJan 02 10:39
Yfrwlfaren't you a day late?  Better late than never I guess ^^Jan 02 10:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Shows how out of touch on TV I am... Never knew there was a Superman IV! Never seen it before!Jan 02 10:52
Yfrwlfit probably sucksJan 02 10:53
_goblinIts definately got a "sucky" theme to it.Jan 02 10:55
_goblinInteresting though that Ive never seen it.......or heard the story...Jan 02 10:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Interested in #ubuntu documentation? Meeting in #ubuntu-meeting on freenode at 11:00UTC about Ubuntu Manual 02 10:56
phIRCe-localTitle: ubuntu-manual - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 50.1 KBJan 02 10:56
MurlocYeah i know but as you said Yfrwlf better late than never :D Jan 02 10:57
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Finished shopping in T-nagar.Jan 02 11:04
MurlocSo what's up people?Jan 02 11:05
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Yfrwlfthe sky, teeheeJan 02 11:18
YfrwlfI think BN should include more OMG Ubuntu articles :PJan 02 11:21
Yfrwlf 02 11:21
phIRCe-localTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: Opera 10.5 Released for Linux, Is Faster Than Chrome! .::. Size~: 93.06 KBJan 02 11:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC News - Irish atheists challenge blasphemy law 02 11:24
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC News - Irish atheists challenge blasphemy law .::. Size~: 48.75 KBJan 02 11:24
YfrwlfAnything disagreement whatsoever with any religion could be considered blasphemy.Jan 02 11:25
Yfrwlf*anyJan 02 11:25
Yfrwlfguess I'm going to jail :OJan 02 11:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] PC world has MS products in a sale.....oh dear, hitting MS in the wallet? or just the sellers or Microsoft products? #microsoft #failJan 02 12:35
_goblin*ofJan 02 12:35
_goblintypoJan 02 12:35
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] #Ubuntu spotted on the set of Doctor Who :) #fbJan 02 13:39
phIRCe-localTitle: Ubuntu Spotted on Doctor Who Set | blog .::. Size~: 17.92 KBJan 02 13:39
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Britain: 5,394 arrested in Internet song crackdown 02 14:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Britain: 5,394 arrested in Internet song crackdown | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 38.63 KBJan 02 14:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Never thought Wii sports would have such longevity as it does in our house #fbJan 02 15:53
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schestowitz[11:21] <Yfrwlf> I think BN should include more OMG Ubuntu articles :PJan 02 15:59
schestowitzI have that queued for posting. Was out with friends (some drinking) all dayJan 02 15:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] As if Chip & Pin wasn't bad enough by design, this is just another reason to refuse to use them 02 16:06
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC News - Threat to chip-and-pin terminals .::. Size~: 55.7 KBJan 02 16:06
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schestowitz"Way back in 2005 a GNOME 10x10 goal was created by Jeff Waugh at a conference in Stuttgart, Germany. The GNOME 10x10 goal was stated as "To Own 10 % of the Global Desktop Market by 2010." Well, it's now 2010 and sadly this goal did not come to fruition for the GNOME project or even the Linux adoption rate in general commanding not even close to 10% for desktop PCs. "Jan 02 16:14
schestowitz 02 16:15
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] It's 2010, But A No-Go For GNOME's 10x10 Goal .::. Size~: 15.24 KBJan 02 16:15
MinceRkde should get more hypeJan 02 16:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Big numbers: why people who unplug their mobile charger instead of doing something effective annoy me HT @ciphergothJan 02 16:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Actually @fabsh & @dantheman as Blues Brothers would be a cool Gimp'd movie poster. Unsure if a (Liverpool) Red would be happy as a Blue ;)Jan 02 16:20
MurlocGnome is just lighter then KDEJan 02 16:20
Murlocand nothing moreJan 02 16:20
schestowitzPossiblyJan 02 16:21
schestowitzKDE4 is fast in some areas though, faster than KDE3 on the same hardware (but different distro)Jan 02 16:21
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schestowitzThere's no universal test though, it's very hardware dependent.Jan 02 16:21
wallc_I have a question...Jan 02 16:22
schestowitzSome are more RAM-greedy and operate smoothly with enough RAM; some are built to consume little CPUJan 02 16:22
schestowitzHey, wallc_Jan 02 16:22
wallc_A young person I know is wanting to take some MS certification courses...Jan 02 16:22
schestowitzMS cerification declines in valueJan 02 16:23
schestowitzSame with NovellJan 02 16:23
schestowitzI can find you articlesJan 02 16:23
schestowitzLinux and FOSS (e.g. CMSs) upJan 02 16:23
schestowitzBTW, I'm after a few whiskeys, so I prefer not to talk in public too much till I sober up :-)Jan 02 16:23
wallc_I'd never discourage further education, but what alternatives are out there that I can recommend?Jan 02 16:23
schestowitzRHC?Jan 02 16:23
schestowitzRed Hat?Jan 02 16:23
schestowitzI don't know..Jan 02 16:23
wallc_lol...I posted on BN around midnight NY Eve and I'd had plenty to drink...Jan 02 16:24
schestowitzBut many technology startups like FB and Google need LAMP professionalsJan 02 16:24
schestowitzwallc_: you also posted in _Goblin's blogJan 02 16:24
schestowitzHe was very happy, said it gave him motivation to writeJan 02 16:24
wallc_Yes, I did, but I was sober then...Jan 02 16:24
wallc_:)Jan 02 16:24
schestowitzGroklaw has business as usual. Novell/WPJan 02 16:25
wallc_Well, I've been preparing (working very hard) on a new blog of my own...Jan 02 16:25
schestowitzSame one as before?Jan 02 16:25
wallc_no, different...under my wallclimber name.Jan 02 16:26
wallc_"Grandma Wanders Onto The battlefield"  lolJan 02 16:27
schestowitzI see...Jan 02 16:27
wallc_I doubt if anyone will ever read it, but maybe...Jan 02 16:27
schestowitzLinux oriented?Jan 02 16:27
wallc_YES! of course.Jan 02 16:27
schestowitzI'd subscribe and link if it's relevant to BN's scopeJan 02 16:28
wallc_Because we all know that Linux is toooo hard for Grandma, right? :)Jan 02 16:28
schestowitzSomeone once suggested starting a BN "Planet"... basically an aggregatorJan 02 16:28
wallc_Oh...I think it will be relevant...Jan 02 16:28
schestowitzwallc_: of course, grandma can only knit :-) Jan 02 16:28
wallc_Oooh, I like the Planet idea.Jan 02 16:28
schestowitzShould I set this up?Jan 02 16:29
wallc_Grandmas can bake cookies too. :)Jan 02 16:29
MinceRunder KDE, with KNit :>Jan 02 16:29
schestowitzI know software for itJan 02 16:29
schestowitzI can have it in the sidebarJan 02 16:29
schestowitzMinceR: Gnit?Jan 02 16:29
wallc_It sounds like a nice idea.Jan 02 16:29
MinceR:)Jan 02 16:29
schestowitzMinceR: Sounds the sameJan 02 16:29
schestowitzwallc_: I'll get working on it tonight thenJan 02 16:29
schestowitzActually, _goblin might have tips on itJan 02 16:30
schestowitzHe set up something in Python for WordPressJan 02 16:30
wallc_Well, that will give me some incentive to finish things up.Jan 02 16:30
schestowitzCool.Jan 02 16:30
schestowitzI'll wait for _goblin before I go ahead. He did something similar, so it's better to askJan 02 16:30
wallc_Maybe my first blog topic will be about what happens when Grandma wanders into an IRC chanel - heh...Jan 02 16:31
schestowitzwallc_: you should set up identica account tooJan 02 16:31
schestowitzIt enters IRC that way, in case not everyone follows the feedJan 02 16:31
schestowitzGroklaw might embrace WaveJan 02 16:31
wallc_hmmm, i'll look into it.Jan 02 16:31
schestowitzBut the Google-hosted one, which means compromise of privacyJan 02 16:32
schestowitzSome more to disqus [spelling] for commentsJan 02 16:32
schestowitzBN comments are not for subscribers only, which keeps people more politeJan 02 16:32
wallc_I don't really understand Google waveJan 02 16:33
wallc_(hey, i'ma grandma)Jan 02 16:33
MinceRafaik it's basically realtime MediaWiki :>Jan 02 16:33
wallc_that's what it looked like to me, too, but i assumed it was something different because of all the hype...Jan 02 16:34
schestowitzwallc_: I never triedWaveJan 02 16:34
schestowitzI'm not interested in it, eitherJan 02 16:34
schestowitzIt is --my my view--Google's attempt to embrace and extend many thigns at onceJan 02 16:35
schestowitzOutlook, microblogs(Twitter), blogs, IM.....Jan 02 16:35
schestowitzThey have already 'killed' a rival in thisJan 02 16:36
schestowitzAnd open-sourced itJan 02 16:36
schestowitzNo guarantee of open active developmentJan 02 16:36
wallc_yeah, it's a battlefield out there :)Jan 02 16:36
schestowitzSo people may carry on with Wave or whatever. Novell made Pulse and SAP enters this space tooJan 02 16:36
schestowitzPulse and SAP's in-development wares are proprietary, i.e. uphill battle vs GOGJan 02 16:37
schestowitzMicrosoft pretends to competeJan 02 16:37
schestowitzIt grabs Plurk codeJan 02 16:37
schestowitzCheap laboutJan 02 16:37
wallc_everything with microsoft is pretense.Jan 02 16:37
schestowitzMicrosoft CHina wasn't cheap enough for them (local labour)Jan 02 16:37
schestowitzSo they contracted /from/ ChinaJan 02 16:37
schestowitzThey did a good job thoughJan 02 16:37
kecskebakRe the KDE discussion above, KDE 4.x is very fast on my computer - Konqueror is the fastest web browser I've ever seen.Jan 02 16:38
schestowitzWithin hours they could produce something that look almost like PlurkJan 02 16:38
schestowitzkecskebak: starts fast, yeah...Jan 02 16:38
wallc_back to the certification stuff, i was surprised to find how huge a business ms certs are...Jan 02 16:38
schestowitzDepends.Jan 02 16:38
schestowitzHow to use MS software?Jan 02 16:38
schestowitzOr admin?Jan 02 16:38
schestowitzMCSE loses valueJan 02 16:38
schestowitzIt's a declining skillJan 02 16:38
MinceRyes, they could steal and re-skin plurk within hours :>Jan 02 16:39
kecskebakWhen I was working at an ERP company a certification scheme was started basically as an extra revenue streamJan 02 16:39
wallc_i don't know...there just seem to be a lot of them that start with "MS" and end with a test.Jan 02 16:39
schestowitzdevalued due to excess or simplicity of knowledgeJan 02 16:39
kecskebakThe education side was secondary to be honestJan 02 16:39
schestowitzRestart, reboot, reinstallJan 02 16:39
wallc_let me see if i can find what i was reading...Jan 02 16:39
MinceRperhaps plurk was m$'s first attempt to learn crApple's business modelJan 02 16:39
schestowitzApple dos this legally AFAIKJan 02 16:40
MinceR(regarding software)Jan 02 16:40
schestowitz*doesJan 02 16:40
MinceRyes, they doJan 02 16:40
MinceRit's no more ethical thoughJan 02 16:40
schestowitzMicrosoft breaks GPL rules,as wellJan 02 16:40
kecskebakThe people writing the course materials worked really hard to make them worthwhile, but it was the money that was the main driverJan 02 16:40
schestowitzApple sells consumer electronicsJan 02 16:40
schestowitzDoesn't make themJan 02 16:40
schestowitzJust sells them for high prices, using marketing modelsJan 02 16:40
schestowitzYou know, space-filling celebs in lines for Apple-branded 'stuff'Jan 02 16:41
schestowitzMade by FoxconnJan 02 16:41
schestowitzBranded by Foxconn too, I supposeJan 02 16:41
kecskebakI hate all the Apple product placement on the things my kids watch on TVJan 02 16:41
schestowitzRebadged Chinese goodsJan 02 16:41
wallc_oh, one thing i noticed is that googling for MS Certification brings up a ton of results, but you won't find ANYTHING negative about the certification programs, anywhere.Jan 02 16:41
schestowitzwallc_: depends what you search forJan 02 16:42
schestowitzIt's a commerse areaJan 02 16:42
wallc_I searched for "Microsoft Certification"Jan 02 16:42
schestowitzcompanies pay spammers (aka "SEM"/"SEO") to put them up thereJan 02 16:42
schestowitzGoogle is like their busienss model, it's shamefulJan 02 16:43
wallc_Then I added Reviews...then I added the word "crap"...lolJan 02 16:43
schestowitzThat's why Wales rationalised doing WikiaJan 02 16:43
schestowitzPut up a name of resort and top results may include lots of companies selling you vacationsJan 02 16:43
schestowitzIt's profitable tot themJan 02 16:43
schestowitzLinux Gazette is back in action :-)Jan 02 16:44
schestowitz 02 16:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Switching to Linux with Puppy « Systems Engineer's Blog .::. Size~: 27.56 KBJan 02 16:44
wallc_I just noticed something...your spelling is much better when you're (just kidding)Jan 02 16:45
schestowitzNoJan 02 16:45
schestowitzMaybe I type more slowly Jan 02 16:45
wallc_Okay, i have chores to do today...(I'm avoiding, can you tell?) i'd better get to them.  have a great day everyone. bye for now.Jan 02 16:46
schestowitzI'm also browsing through some news in another desktopJan 02 16:46
schestowitztara, wallc_Jan 02 16:46
wallc_I'll let you know when i do the first blog post...maybe you can read it first before i make it public?  :)Jan 02 16:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin we need your help with something... come to IRC when you can pleaseJan 02 16:47
wallc_tara?Jan 02 16:47
wallc_as in Gone With The Wind, Tara?Jan 02 16:47
schestowitzHehe: 02 16:48
phIRCe-localTitle: Twitter / Vinaya Almeida: BOYCOTT XmasEve the ownerc ... .::. Size~: 10.02 KBJan 02 16:48
schestowitzwallc_: 02 16:48
phIRCe-localTitle: Urban Dictionary: ta ra .::. Size~: 33.35 KBJan 02 16:48
kecskebakYou've never watched Coronation Street wallc_!Jan 02 16:48
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schestowitzkecskebak: she's not from the UKJan 02 16:48
kecskebakI bet Roy's been off for a hotpot at the Rovers.Jan 02 16:49
schestowitzOff with some punters :-)Jan 02 16:49
wallc_No, I've never watched it...but i don't have a television any more.Jan 02 16:49
schestowitzwallc_: youtube?Jan 02 16:49
wallc_(I don't miss it at all)Jan 02 16:49
schestowitzMy mate has this massive TV with wi-fi and YouTube accessJan 02 16:49
kecskebakI never watch any television I'm not working on eitherJan 02 16:49
schestowitzWe watched it this morning...Jan 02 16:49
wallc_I didn't know it was on you tube...i'll look.Jan 02 16:50
schestowitzYouTube becomes part of the television experience... not just with NeurosJan 02 16:50
schestowitztelevision as a centralised tool is waningJan 02 16:50
schestowitzFor some anywayJan 02 16:50
schestowitzDespite HDTVJan 02 16:50
kecskebakTalking of television, I saw VideoLan are doing a video editor that looks quite interestingJan 02 16:50
wallc_Thanks all...turrah!  :)Jan 02 16:50
schestowitzCompanies make not a penny when you switch ont he TubeJan 02 16:50
schestowitzUnless it's cableJan 02 16:50
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schestowitzIt's advertisements they sell... YouTUbe hasn't turned much to that side yetJan 02 16:51
kecskebakGoogle Ads seems to know what I watch on YouTube thoughJan 02 16:51
schestowitzkecskebak: kdenlive is niceJan 02 16:51
kecskebakBug city sadlyJan 02 16:51
DaemonFCschestowitz: I think someone needs to answer why they put enough ketchup in a packet for each fryJan 02 16:51
schestowitzkecskebak: they do knowJan 02 16:51
schestowitzThey own DoubleClick now, tooJan 02 16:51
DaemonFCI want accountability on thatJan 02 16:51
kecskebakIf I could use it without it crashing every five minutes then it would do everything I wantJan 02 16:51
schestowitzThey must have inherited a lot of old data from DoubleClickJan 02 16:52
kecskebakIt has some fantastic plug-insJan 02 16:52
schestowitz"Internet Advertising Network was started by Kevin O'Connor and Dwight Merriman in 1995." 02 16:52
phIRCe-localTitle: DoubleClick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 58.86 KBJan 02 16:52
kecskebakI even installed two KDE distros on my computer to see if KDELive would be more stable as I was so keen to use itJan 02 16:52
schestowitzGoogle has heaps of knowledgeJan 02 16:52
DaemonFCschestowitz: I used to maintain a HOSTS file for Windows, blocking ad serversJan 02 16:52
schestowitzIf only if could get historical IP mappings (to person)Jan 02 16:53
DaemonFCyou can use the same format on Linux obviouslyJan 02 16:53
DaemonFCcan't remember where to stick thatJan 02 16:53
kecskebakI have a lot of MJPEGS, and KDEnLive seems allergic to themJan 02 16:53
DaemonFCit's C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc on WindowsJan 02 16:53
DaemonFCthough Windows 98 would choke if it got over about 300 kilobytesJan 02 16:53
schestowitzFor simple transitions it seems to work ok for NokiaJan 02 16:54
DaemonFCthe Microsoft MVPs site still maintains one, they have another one that also blocks porn sitesJan 02 16:54
DaemonFCthough Vista has a limit of about 150 kilobytes before it chokesJan 02 16:55
DaemonFCyou have to disable a couple system services to get around thatJan 02 16:55
DaemonFCnow the only things I block in HOSTS are the Windows Live Messenger ad server and the Windows Genuine Advantage servers that XP likes to phone home toJan 02 16:56
DaemonFCMicrosoft crams the ads into Windows Live Messenger in such a way that they hope you'll click on one by mistake while fishing for some other buttonJan 02 16:57
DaemonFCthe ads have also been used to deliver malware through WLM beforeJan 02 16:58
kecskebak 02 16:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Britain facing one of the coldest winters in 100 years, experts predict - Telegraph .::. Size~: 50.56 KBJan 02 16:58
kecskebakMust be global warmingJan 02 16:58
kecskebak;)Jan 02 16:58
DaemonFC 02 16:58
DaemonFC:)Jan 02 16:59
MinceRmust be the Gulf Stream stoppingJan 02 16:59
schestowitz 02 17:00
DaemonFCas far as I see it, any program with embedded ads is a security hazard, and you should avoid using it or find a way to block the adsJan 02 17:00
*MinceR avoids using WLMJan 02 17:00
kecskebakFlash via Wine doesJan 02 17:01
schestowitzkecskebak: the water level keeps risingJan 02 17:01
kecskebakI was only joking - I've already been convinced about Global DimmingJan 02 17:01
DaemonFCMinceR: There's also Messenger Plus! which is suspiciousJan 02 17:01
schestowitzTemperature and all changes over very long periods of timeJan 02 17:01
schestowitzThen there's peak oilJan 02 17:01
DaemonFCthe installer and the plugins themselves all rant and rave about Allah and shitJan 02 17:01
schestowitzToo many people worry about junk like y2kJan 02 17:02
DaemonFClots of people use it even though its mode of operation is to patch Windows Live Messenger in memoryJan 02 17:02
schestowitzDaemonFC: careful!Jan 02 17:02
schestowitzBlasphemy!Jan 02 17:02
kecskebakAnd too much fresh water due to melting ice in the Arctic would cause the effect in the UKJan 02 17:02
MinceRDaemonFC: there's also BitlBee which isn't malwareJan 02 17:02
kecskebakAs MinceR said, it would affect the Gulf StreamJan 02 17:02
DaemonFCMinceR: What's that?Jan 02 17:02
schestowitzDaemonFC: 02 17:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Irish atheists defy new blasphemy law - Google News .::. Size~: 46.41 KBJan 02 17:02
MinceRIM-IRC gatewayJan 02 17:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: Which is why every Constitution needs an establishment clauseJan 02 17:03
DaemonFC:)Jan 02 17:03
schestowitzRMS protested against this tooJan 02 17:03
schestowitzSome intl' body (not sure if it was the UN) called it a "hate crime" or something to criticise a religionJan 02 17:03
MinceRof course you could use Kopete, Pidgin or aMSN, tooJan 02 17:03
DaemonFCoh bullshitJan 02 17:04
schestowitzRMS said, something like, "so if I said religion is a "brain-virus", then....."Jan 02 17:04
kecskebakYou'd think given the banking situation there and Irish legislators would have other things to doJan 02 17:04
DaemonFCso what do they call lots of big religions coming together to crush people that don't believe?Jan 02 17:04
schestowitzReligions and races are sacredJan 02 17:04
schestowitzWe can criticise people for clothingJan 02 17:04
schestowitzTheir football teamsJan 02 17:04
schestowitzI can make a caricature of Gordon BrownJan 02 17:04
MinceRnot for longJan 02 17:05
schestowitzAs long as he's not mocked for a belief in divinityJan 02 17:05
MinceRif the uk takes a page from obama's bookJan 02 17:05
kecskebakOr his ScottishnessJan 02 17:05
schestowitzI mean, for races and sexual orientation I can see reasons for immunityJan 02 17:05
MinceRand being a police state and a faithful follower of Jesusland, i think they willJan 02 17:05
schestowitzPeople can't change race/DNAJan 02 17:05
DaemonFCactually, I would have no problem with firing people who harass another over religion, but the flip side of that is that if they harass an atheist, that should also merit being firedJan 02 17:05
schestowitzTheir thoughts and falsehoods can be corrected thoughJan 02 17:05
DaemonFCin a workplace setting anywayJan 02 17:06
schestowitzHeh.Jan 02 17:06
DaemonFCeither way it creates a hostile work environmentJan 02 17:06
kecskebakIn other words DaemonFC, you're simply against bullying. The form taken (religious or otherwise) used is irrelevant.Jan 02 17:06
schestowitzUnprecedented?Jan 02 17:06
schestowitzFiring for believing, well... what has evidence?Jan 02 17:06
schestowitzkecskebak: yes, exactlyJan 02 17:07
DaemonFCmeh, there's just some things you shouldn't talk about at workJan 02 17:07
schestowitzUnreasonable intoleranceJan 02 17:07
DaemonFCthat's not law, it's company image, productivity, etcJan 02 17:07
schestowitzDaemonFC: depends on the type of workJan 02 17:07
DaemonFCfreedom of speech only goes as far as protecting you from the governmentJan 02 17:08
DaemonFCnot your employerJan 02 17:08
DaemonFCnot someone in a barJan 02 17:08
DaemonFCfree speech should be moderated by "Am I going to be fired or get my ass kicked for this?"Jan 02 17:09
DaemonFCany sane person would do that anywayJan 02 17:09
DaemonFCbut I've dealt with employees that acted like it was illegal for me to fire or reprimand or take punitive actionJan 02 17:10
DaemonFCcause they say "free speech!"Jan 02 17:10
DaemonFCand they have that when they're clocked out and off company propertyJan 02 17:11
MinceRso you think that employers should have the right to blackmail their employees into saying whatever the employer wants, using their job as a means to keep them hostage?Jan 02 17:11
MinceRthere's no natural force that prevents the employer from making demands regarding what happens off company propertyJan 02 17:12
DaemonFCMinceR: No. But if you're working customer service, I think it's reasonable for the employer to tell you not to curse or offend peopleJan 02 17:12
DaemonFCI think an employer who sees that going on is damned well within their rights to fire the personJan 02 17:12
MinceRnow of course if the employer could get their ass kicked for firing someone with no good reason, that could make things differentJan 02 17:12
DaemonFCMinceR: They can, it's called "Wrongful Termination"Jan 02 17:12
MinceRit's reasonable, when they're actually performing customer service and talking to a customerJan 02 17:12
DaemonFCand "Maintaining a hostile work environment"Jan 02 17:13
DaemonFCMinceR: It's grounds for a lawsuit to let the employee maintain that behaviorJan 02 17:13
DaemonFCthat's why most employers will deal with the offending employee immediatelyJan 02 17:14
DaemonFCthat, and the impact it has on other employees productivity, morale, etc.Jan 02 17:14
DaemonFCand customers don't want to witness that stuff going on eitherJan 02 17:14
DaemonFCso you're losing customers, that means you lose money thereJan 02 17:15
schestowitzTHat's fair enoughJan 02 17:15
schestowitzBut it's beside the point, no?Jan 02 17:15
schestowitzAlso, it's a grey areaJan 02 17:15
DaemonFCschestowitz: As far as the state becoming involved and making speech against religion illegal, I strongly disagree with thatJan 02 17:15
schestowitzEmployee are expected to act "normal", where normal is defined as roughly fitting the mean/average/median of a large group of people, based on some characteristicsJan 02 17:16
schestowitzSome people feel strongly about religionJan 02 17:16
schestowitzOthers are the oppositeJan 02 17:16
schestowitzBut in most jobs the issue does not ariseJan 02 17:16
DaemonFCI can't make it disappear, so I really don't worry about it a lotJan 02 17:16
DaemonFCkind of like taxesJan 02 17:17
schestowitzAh, OKJan 02 17:17
DaemonFCeveryone hates being taxed, but they tolerate itJan 02 17:17
schestowitzMinceR probably needs to restrain himself when he feels smarter than his boss/esJan 02 17:17
DaemonFCrestrain yourself or format it to not piss them offJan 02 17:17
DaemonFCB-)Jan 02 17:18
schestowitzThat's where a lot of tension tends to lie... authorities at work that need to justify themselves rather than be assumedJan 02 17:18
DaemonFCthey justify themselves based on the fact that you're being paid every week and keep coming backJan 02 17:18
DaemonFCthat's really all they have to doJan 02 17:18
schestowitzI'm good with people, I never had such issues, AFAIK. Some people are super stubborn and vain... they can't lastJan 02 17:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: no, they get paid moreJan 02 17:19
schestowitzIt's like animals and sizeJan 02 17:19
schestowitzTo a scientist, merit and achievements countJan 02 17:19
DaemonFCI figure that if I own the company, I don't really have to justify what I do with itJan 02 17:19
schestowitzTo his/her manager, money is an indicator by which to keep scoreJan 02 17:19
schestowitzDifferent world viewpointsJan 02 17:19
schestowitzOne measures as a scientist, the other a businessman/womanJan 02 17:20
schestowitzDaemonFC: so you're a dictators, not a monarchJan 02 17:20
schestowitzThat's why it's good you, DaemonFC, control no countryJan 02 17:20
DaemonFCschestowitz: Being a manager at Walmart is really not a challenge most of the timeJan 02 17:20
DaemonFCyou're really not dealing with people that are in the same leagueJan 02 17:20
schestowitzWal-mart has many managerial layersJan 02 17:20
DaemonFCelse they wouldn't be working for less money every yearJan 02 17:20
schestowitzIt's a pyramidJan 02 17:20
schestowitzIt's not democratic at allJan 02 17:21
schestowitzSad to say, that's how it operatesJan 02 17:21
DaemonFCtrueJan 02 17:21
schestowitzThe peasants are the peasantsJan 02 17:21
schestowitzFarmers (extraction) -> transformers- > factory->shop>sales->management->management->management->management->management->management->management->management->management->management->managementJan 02 17:21
schestowitzIt gets thinner and thinner at each levelJan 02 17:22
DaemonFCyou see an employee that shows more signs of sapience than the surrounding cattle, he may be the next managerJan 02 17:22
DaemonFCor may be firedJan 02 17:22
DaemonFCdepending Jan 02 17:22
schestowitzHeh,.Jan 02 17:22
DaemonFChell, maybe 1 in 100 becomes an assistant managerJan 02 17:23
DaemonFCand 1 in 500 of them becomes a co-managerJan 02 17:23
DaemonFCand 1 in 4 of them gets to run their own store eventuallyJan 02 17:24
DaemonFCif you get that far up, your chances of being a district manager are not all that greatJan 02 17:24
DaemonFCcause you'll have 50 stores or so in a districtJan 02 17:24
schestowitzAnd many don't make it into Wal-martJan 02 17:24
DaemonFCand one district manager slotJan 02 17:24
schestowitzOnly like 1 in 10 cabJan 02 17:25
schestowitz*canJan 02 17:25
schestowitzUS population is about 4.5% of the worldJan 02 17:25
schestowitzUK is less than 1%Jan 02 17:25
DaemonFCso the changes of going from peon to managing a store are not goodJan 02 17:25
schestowitzHungary just in the centsJan 02 17:26
DaemonFCkind of like buying lottery tickets where the top prize is $5,000Jan 02 17:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: In wal-mart, it's survival of the fattestJan 02 17:26
DaemonFCDM position is like those lottery tickets where you can win $250,000Jan 02 17:26
MinceR"survival of the fattest" :DJan 02 17:26
DaemonFCbecoming one of the vice presidents, almost unheard ofJan 02 17:27
DaemonFCthey get most of them from outside the companyJan 02 17:27
DaemonFCthey show off a few that startedd out mopping the floors, on the training videos you see on your first dayJan 02 17:27
DaemonFCbut there's hundreds more that came from other companies or went from college to DM to VPJan 02 17:28
DaemonFCyou almost never see anyone at that level that was ever an hourly employeeJan 02 17:28
DaemonFCit's like that's the cutoff pointJan 02 17:29
DaemonFCthey don't want any of "those people" in their meeting roomsJan 02 17:29
DaemonFC:DJan 02 17:29
DaemonFCThey have the CEO do little promotional tapes and crap for "motivating" the "associates"Jan 02 17:30
DaemonFCgiving you the impression that he's just like you (only making tens of millions of dollars a year)Jan 02 17:30
DaemonFCLee Scott was in an interview once where he was going over all the budget-saving stuff Walmart made him do, acting like flying coach was a huge dealJan 02 17:31
DaemonFCthen he was all like "I shared a motel room with another man last night"Jan 02 17:31
DaemonFCI was over in the back of the training room gigglingJan 02 17:32
DaemonFCschestowitz: Then there were the reps from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo that came out to the storeJan 02 17:33
DaemonFCfun timesJan 02 17:33
DaemonFCthe Microsoft guy dropped off a box of 100 lanyards with "XBOX" in green letteringJan 02 17:34
DaemonFCI have a collection of the promotional buttons from a bunch of XBOX games tooJan 02 17:34
DaemonFCWhat was really funny though was the number of times they had to replace the demo XBOX 360Jan 02 17:35
DaemonFCit launched in November of 2005 and by Christmas, they'd already replaced five of themJan 02 17:36
DaemonFCthey'd die and hand there with the 3 red lights flashing and the monitor displaying "E74 - Contact Microsoft Support"Jan 02 17:36
DaemonFC*hangJan 02 17:36
MinceRand yet the drones still buy themJan 02 17:36
MinceRthat's the sad partJan 02 17:37
DaemonFCMinceR: It came down from "on high" that we were forbidden from discussing the problem with customersJan 02 17:39
DaemonFClest we end up ruining our Christmas sales figuresJan 02 17:39
MinceRthey ought to have noticed and heard of it thoughJan 02 17:40
DaemonFCof course I already owned one and was hoping I was one of the lucky ones that didn't get a lemon (I wasn't)Jan 02 17:40
DaemonFCMinceR: I decided to push the extended replacement program we hadJan 02 17:41
DaemonFCWe'd swap it out no questions asked for 2 years, for another $20Jan 02 17:41
MinceRi wonder if a noname chinese manufacturer could get away with the level of quality m$ and crApple supplies in hardware without having their products bannedJan 02 17:41
DaemonFCdidn't specifically say why I encouraged it thoughJan 02 17:41
MinceR(mainly iGrenade, xbox 360)Jan 02 17:42
DaemonFCI figured Microsoft wouldn't own up to it and they'd get stuck with a bad console MS wanted $120 to fixJan 02 17:42
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DaemonFCwhen they could just take it back to us and we'd bully Microsoft into crediting usJan 02 17:42
MinceRyou thought you could bully m$?Jan 02 17:43
DaemonFCyes, Walmart is able to bully MicrosoftJan 02 17:43
DaemonFCwe got them to credit us full price for every 360 returned to usJan 02 17:43
DaemonFCMicrosoft doesn't want to piss off WalmartJan 02 17:43
DaemonFCthose who piss Walmart off get less shelf space at 5,000 stores in the US aloneJan 02 17:44
DaemonFCthose who make Walmart happy, get more space at the expense of their competitionJan 02 17:44
amarsh04DaemonFC, the behaviour you described walmart management encouraging reminds me of a Donald Sutherland movie set in cold war eastern europe where he character is made to betray his family in order to get advancment in the communist partyJan 02 17:44
DaemonFCamarsh04: Pretty muchJan 02 17:45
DaemonFCdishonesty to customers and the people that work for you is expectedJan 02 17:45
DaemonFCunwritten rule most of the timeJan 02 17:45
DaemonFCWalmart stonewalls customers who have their engines ruined in the Tire and Lube Express all the timeJan 02 17:46
DaemonFCtry to blame it on the customerJan 02 17:46
DaemonFCWalmart is its own insurance company, so you have to ask them to pay for the damages they causedJan 02 17:46
amarsh04back in a few, migrated to dependency-based bootingJan 02 17:46
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DaemonFCthey forget to put oil in it, or strip out the drain plugJan 02 17:47
DaemonFCyou make it 10-20 miles before the engine is damaged beyond repairJan 02 17:47
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DaemonFCthey hire 18 year olds who have never worked anywhere and pay them $8.50 an hourJan 02 17:48
DaemonFCyou don't want them working on your car!Jan 02 17:48
DaemonFCwhats funnier, is that the Walmart here charges $2 more for a full service oil change than the Monro shop out by their parking lotJan 02 17:49
MurlocAs i said to myself, better to have noble open source company which is little(like my site-company), then to be corrupted and giant.Jan 02 17:49
DaemonFCand you go to Walmart, you have to wait twice as long Jan 02 17:49
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DaemonFCpeople just have this instinct that Walmart is always cheaperJan 02 17:50
DaemonFCand most of the time, you could have spent less elsewhereJan 02 17:50
DaemonFCor gotten better service, or waited lessJan 02 17:50
DaemonFCor all of the aboveJan 02 17:50
DaemonFCWalmart reinforces the thinking that they're always cheaper by making TV commercials comparing groceries from Walmart vs breakfast at a fast food placeJan 02 17:51
MurlocMicrosoft is like cancer really....Jan 02 17:51
DaemonFCmost people I guess don't realize that those aren't the same thingJan 02 17:51
DaemonFCthey wouldn't compare themselves to ALDIJan 02 17:52
Murlocit's spreading in the less developed countries....Jan 02 17:52
DaemonFC"Shop at walmart and increase your grocery bill by $500 a year"?Jan 02 17:52
DaemonFC:)Jan 02 17:52
DaemonFCMurloc: Yeah, they have them all over MexicoJan 02 17:53
DaemonFCI wouldn't be surprised if the next rounds of maps the Mexican government gives to illegal immigrants highlights all the Walmart stores in Texas,Arizona, and New MexicoJan 02 17:53
DaemonFCthey seem to find them all just fine on their own thoughJan 02 17:54
DaemonFCall kinds of people shop thereJan 02 17:54
MurlocEverything is possibleJan 02 17:54
DaemonFCfrom poor people being tacky to rich people being cheapJan 02 17:55
Murlocand every country has it's WallmartJan 02 17:55
Murlocit's just called by other nameJan 02 17:55
DaemonFCthe Mexicali Walmarts anyway, they keep all their liquor in the security roomJan 02 17:55
DaemonFCthey put little cards out on the shelf with the picture of the bottle on itJan 02 17:56
DaemonFCcause one good bottle of liquor could be more than your average Mexican worker makes in a monthJan 02 17:56
DaemonFCtheir pharmacy is also a lot differentJan 02 17:56
DaemonFCyou just tell them what you want, what dose, and how manyJan 02 17:56
DaemonFCno prescription neededJan 02 17:56
DaemonFCother than that, you can definirely tell you're at WalmartJan 02 17:57
DaemonFCthe bad part of that is that the US government only lets you bring back 30 day supplies of all your medsJan 02 17:59
DaemonFCotherwise I would have gotten several years worth of all of them for like 10% of the priceJan 02 17:59
DaemonFCdamned holidaysJan 02 18:01
DaemonFCdamned SundayJan 02 18:01
DaemonFCI could have my Wii here now, but noooooooooooooooJan 02 18:01
DaemonFCthanks to New Years Day and the weekend, it won't be here til TuesdayJan 02 18:01
MinceRyou should have ordered it before the holidays :>Jan 02 18:02
DaemonFCwith my good looks?Jan 02 18:02
MinceRi wonder what that has to do with anythingJan 02 18:03
DaemonFCMinceR: A sarcastic term to describe paying for something when you don't have any money.Jan 02 18:04
MinceRicJan 02 18:04
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DaemonFC"We need one of those!" Person 2: "Sure, I'll just walk in and get one with my good looks. :P"Jan 02 18:05
DaemonFCAMD is really lagging behind with their Catalyst driverJan 02 18:08
DaemonFCmaybe this month they'll catch up with where Fedora and Mandriva were 3 months agoJan 02 18:08
MinceRyou say that like amd/ati didn't always lag with their catalyst driver :>Jan 02 18:09
DaemonFCI have half a mind to swap out this ReadeonHD 4670 out for the Geforce 9500 GT in my old PCJan 02 18:09
DaemonFCjust so that it doesn't matter what version of X a distribution usesJan 02 18:10
DaemonFC*RadeonHDJan 02 18:10
DaemonFCI kind of wonder if they'll support Ubuntu 10.04 LTSJan 02 18:10
DaemonFCat least if they do, I can park myself there for 3 years Jan 02 18:11
DaemonFCI was really disappointed in OpenSuse reducing their support cycleJan 02 18:12
DaemonFCit used to be 24 months, now it's like 16 iircJan 02 18:12
DaemonFCprobably had something to do with them firing all those peopleJan 02 18:13
DaemonFCsome of the support lifetime had to go cause they don't have resources to support it withJan 02 18:13
schestowitzMurloc: Wal-Mart owns Asda hereJan 02 18:51
schestowitzBut Asda is lagging behind Tesco and Sainbury'sJan 02 18:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The drying couch cushions bloody reek of cat pee. They have feathers in them ... I think they're goners. The couch is fine though.Jan 02 19:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] just tried new fuckery with payment. Go to and you'll see what I just did. FTW!Jan 02 19:10
phIRCe-localTitle: » 301 - NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 23.7 KBJan 02 19:10
phIRCe-localTitle: NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 45.36 KBJan 02 19:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Quite possibly the most bloody stupid email sent in history 02 19:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Retarded Emails - The Oatmeal .::. Size~: 8.17 KBJan 02 19:15
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DaemonFCHim: "my toe hurts T_T" Me: "come here and I'll stomp on the other one so they match" Him: "real nice of you ~_   ~" Me: "as nice as the rest of the world"Jan 02 19:31
DaemonFCdemoralizing teenagers is funJan 02 19:31
MinceR:)Jan 02 19:32
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Munich Migrates to #GNU #Linux, #ODF and; Microsoft #EDGI Still Lurking 02 19:43
phIRCe-localTitle: Munich Migrates to GNU/Linux, ODF and; Microsoft EDGI Still Lurking | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.64 KBJan 02 19:43
MurlocThe large-scale migration to LiMux  ?Jan 02 19:57
Murloca little typo error here :pJan 02 19:57
schestowitzNoJan 02 20:04
schestowitzThat's the distro nameJan 02 20:04
schestowitzUnless there's another typo somwhereJan 02 20:04
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The US Government may not actually understand how the 4th Amendment works 02 20:14
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_goblinHi Roy....Jan 02 20:16
_goblinsorry been cleaning tidying house....Jan 02 20:16
_goblingot loads done....Jan 02 20:16
schestowitzOk, no problem. I might leave soon, thoughJan 02 20:17
_goblinwhats up? got your message on twitterJan 02 20:17
schestowitzwallclimber wants to have a Planet BN... well, actually the issue arose when someone else said something about the possibilityJan 02 20:17
schestowitzAnd in OpenBytes you have some feeds in the sidebarJan 02 20:17
schestowitzI could set up a planet, but it would not be integrated in WordPressJan 02 20:17
_goblinyep.....Ill help in any wayJan 02 20:18
schestowitzBecause you shot OpenBytes dead with Python and code you must have experimented with some codeJan 02 20:18
_goblinyeah........ishJan 02 20:18
schestowitzI'd add OpenBytes to of courseJan 02 20:18
schestowitz /to/tooJan 02 20:18
schestowitzI want to do this without iframesJan 02 20:18
_goblinok.....Jan 02 20:19
schestowitzLike magpierss-based packages like the ones I use in BN Wiki and schestowitz.comJan 02 20:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft and the #BBC Say Sub-notebooks Are Dying So It Must be True 02 20:19
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MurlocRoy i've started open source company-websiteJan 02 20:19
Murloc heheJan 02 20:20
phIRCe-localTitle: FOSS | Zeusoft .::. Size~: 14.06 KBJan 02 20:20
_goblinRoy, I am happy for both you and wallclimber to have admin access to my blog if it would help, or do you want me to try my hand again at Python dabbling?Jan 02 20:20
schestowitz 02 20:20
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schestowitzMurloc: thanks, addedJan 02 20:21
schestowitz_ 02 20:21
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_goblinah, I see...Jan 02 20:22
schestowitz 02 20:22
MurlocHehe we're currently developing Software Client DownloadJan 02 20:22
phIRCe-localTitle: WordPress : WordPress Ideas  Idea: Planet Wordpress Plugin .::. Size~: 17.73 KBJan 02 20:22
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Who is Sherman Alexie, and why is he asking to be pwned so hard? #douchebagJan 02 20:24
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Google and #HTC working on #ChromeOS tablet... will someone just release a tablet that doesn't suck already? 02 20:24
phIRCe-localTitle: Slashdot News Story | Novelist Blames Piracy On Open Source Culture .::. Size~: 168.93 KBJan 02 20:24
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schestowitz_goblin: do you know something that can aggregate several RSS feeds, sort them, and and then spew them out efficientlyJan 02 20:24
schestowitzMagpie would not be efficient, I reckonJan 02 20:24
schestowitzNo cachingJan 02 20:25
schestowitzIn OpenBytes you handle feeds separatelyJan 02 20:25
_goblinschestowitz: mmmm an RSS "collector".......reading each RSS via a python script is no problem for me.....spitting them out as another.....mmmm, havent tried that...Jan 02 20:26
_goblinschestowitz: I can't see it being too difficult....I have a Python manual to hand...and the NG's....Jan 02 20:26
_goblinIll give something a go.... so all you want is the RSS feeds of a collection of sites output as one RSS feed?Jan 02 20:27
_goblinI think Ive got the code....Jan 02 20:29
_goblinfrom RSS import ns, CollectionChannel, TrackingChannelJan 02 20:29
_goblin#Create a tracking channel, which is a data structure thatJan 02 20:29
_goblin#Indexes RSS data by item URLJan 02 20:29
_goblintc = TrackingChannel()Jan 02 20:29
_goblin#Returns the RSSParser instance used, which can usually be ignoredJan 02 20:29
_goblintc.parse("")Jan 02 20:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/rss+xml type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 02 20:29
_goblinRSS10_TITLE = (ns.rss10, 'title')Jan 02 20:29
_goblinRSS10_DESC = (ns.rss10, 'description')Jan 02 20:29
_goblin#You can also use tc.keys()Jan 02 20:29
_goblinitems = tc.listItems()Jan 02 20:29
_goblinfor item in items:Jan 02 20:29
_goblin    #Each item is a (url, order_index) tupleJan 02 20:29
_goblin    url = item[0]Jan 02 20:29
_goblin    print "RSS Item:", urlJan 02 20:30
_goblin    #Get all the data for the item as a Python dictionaryJan 02 20:30
_goblin    item_data = tc.getItem(item)Jan 02 20:30
_goblin    print "Title:", item_data.get(RSS10_TITLE, "(none)")Jan 02 20:30
_goblin    print "Description:", item_data.get(RSS10_DESC, "(none)")Jan 02 20:30
_goblini'll mess around with that a little and see what I can come up with.....Jan 02 20:30
Murlocanyway roy, im also web-developer of FOSS project called Bnetd/PvPGNJan 02 20:30
Murloc 02 20:31
phIRCe-localTitle: PvPGN .::. Size~: 6.25 KBJan 02 20:31
MurlocIt's project that emulates DaemonJan 02 20:31
Murlocand providing online support for Blizzard and Westwood Online games.Jan 02 20:32
_goblinAh so your handle is in reference to those Murloc's in WOW? Jan 02 20:33
_goblinused to play.....Jan 02 20:33
DaemonFCIndiana's "constituent surveys" are once again another round of push polling designed to make you agree to union busting, tax hikes, congressional district gerrymandering, and more of their political theater and divisive social wedge issuesJan 02 20:36
DaemonFCyayJan 02 20:36
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MurlocWell nah but it's more refference to WC3 creatures.Jan 02 20:37
DaemonFCmy Metroid Prime Trilogy got hereJan 02 20:40
DaemonFCnow I have two Wii games and no Wii here til TuesdayJan 02 20:40
DaemonFC:PJan 02 20:40
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schestowitz[20:27] <_goblin> Ill give something a go.... so all you want is the RSS feeds of a collection of sites output as one RSS feed?Jan 02 20:50
schestowitzI bet that already exists somewhereJan 02 20:50
schestowitzBut I'd rather find a WordPress plugin for itJan 02 20:51
schestowitzMurloc: nice oneJan 02 20:52
Murlocanyway visual studio is evil....Jan 02 20:52
Murloclol it can't locate the project even tough you specified the pathsJan 02 20:53
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schestowitzGotta go out now. bblJan 02 21:00
schestowitzMurloc: yeah, VS sucks. I could hardly compile my Linux programs for Windows with VSJan 02 21:00
schestowitzcye l8er. Out drinkingJan 02 21:00
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Do you have any idea what Mercury Messenger is on about when it says that my JMF isn't working properly?Jan 02 21:53
DaemonFCI gathered that it's complaing about "Java Media Foundation"Jan 02 21:54
DaemonFCI wish someone would go beyond "everything but voice and video" with Windows Live MessengerJan 02 22:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Goodbye, you are too stupid to live. 02 22:01
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva | Goodbye, you are too stupid to live. .::. Size~: 34.04 KBJan 02 22:01
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva: Goodbye, you are too stupid to live. .::. Size~: 25 KBJan 02 22:01
DaemonFCit's like, almost comical on Linux where there's like 40 messengers that can connect to it, but none can do voice or videoJan 02 22:01
DaemonFCMercury claims to be able to, then throws all these weird bogus error messages aroundJan 02 22:02
DaemonFCPeople make DEB packages and tell you the program is intended for Ubuntu, you would think that it will work with UbuntuJan 02 22:03
DaemonFCnot freak out when something it's obviously going to need isn't thereJan 02 22:03
DaemonFCthis kind of crap scores bad reviewsJan 02 22:05
DaemonFCif something on Windows needs JAVA, it bundles Java along with itJan 02 22:06
DaemonFCnot part of JavaJan 02 22:06
DaemonFCWhy is there no way on Ubuntu to bring in this JMF?Jan 02 22:07
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DaemonFC 02 22:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Don't answer Census,Jan 02 22:10
DaemonFC"He said the information is stored in computers that are not even connected to the Internet."Jan 02 22:11
DaemonFCCause we know that USB flash media, ipods, etc. can't be used to copy computerized data files or anything. /sarcasmJan 02 22:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @realmary: Not from Daily mail: Top 10 Good News Stories From Muslim World That You Never Heard About in 2009 02 22:12
DaemonFCI don't know why they're worried about someone stealing Census Bureau data on themJan 02 22:12
DaemonFCCredit reporting agencies have hundreds of times more data on you and "lose a laptop" now and then with data for hundreds of thousands of people on itJan 02 22:13
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's funny that even though these companies have access to EFS and Bitlocker, how they never actually seem to use themJan 02 22:14
DaemonFCso even if they would stop anyone from getting the data on the hard disk, they won't cause they're not turned onJan 02 22:14
DaemonFCIsn't that kind of the main point of rolling out the expensive versions of Windows they all use?Jan 02 22:15
MinceRi wish people would go beyond craptastic closed IM systemsJan 02 22:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] New Xbox 360 advert for 2010? ;) #microsoft #360 #xboxJan 02 22:19
MinceRinstead of looking for trouble and complaining when they find itJan 02 22:19
DaemonFCMinceR: It comes from not wanting to use something but being sucked in by millions of people that doJan 02 22:20
DaemonFCit becomes like a voluntary prison that's unofficially mandatory, and Microsoft counts on thatJan 02 22:20
cubezzzat one point the pet rock was popularJan 02 22:21
cubezzzdoesn't mean it's a good ideaJan 02 22:21
DaemonFCMinceR: You see that episode of Lexx where Mantrid kept his drones feeding on all the matter in the universeJan 02 22:22
DaemonFCturning it into more dronesJan 02 22:22
MinceRi haven't seen lexxJan 02 22:22
DaemonFCwho went to make more dronesJan 02 22:22
DaemonFCand they all were lured to the center of the universe, collapsing itJan 02 22:22
DaemonFCthats MSNJan 02 22:22
cubezzzthe tribble story over again :)Jan 02 22:22
MinceRwhat's unofficially mandatory about video/voice on an IM service?Jan 02 22:22
MinceRare your contacts illiterate? :>Jan 02 22:23
DaemonFCMinceR: Not really, it's just faster than typingJan 02 22:23
DaemonFCbesides, you actually get to see someone you never get to seeJan 02 22:23
DaemonFCit has a certain draw to itJan 02 22:23
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DaemonFCI can usually make a Linux distribution do what I need it to in spite of poor planning, half-implemented features, workarounds, and the likeJan 02 22:25
DaemonFCsometimes I run into something I just don't know how to fix, and it bothers me, a lotJan 02 22:25
MinceRso do you know a non-crap client for m$n/WLM that can do everything you want it to do?Jan 02 22:26
DaemonFCa distribution is like a feudal system where decisions get made unilaterally with little or no regard for the commonersJan 02 22:26
DaemonFCwhat hardware they'll break in this releaseJan 02 22:26
DaemonFCwhat software has unresolvable dependenciesJan 02 22:26
MinceRi'd like to see that "what hardware we will break in this release" discussionJan 02 22:26
cubezzzthat's why I compile stuff myselfJan 02 22:26
DaemonFCMinceR: I'd actually call Empathy a hell of a regression over just shipping PidginJan 02 22:27
cubezzzno one is forcing you to use latest and greatest versionJan 02 22:27
DaemonFCthat's my opinion, and I know Pidgin has never been interested in doing voice/video at all, for any protocol people useJan 02 22:27
cubezzzpersonally I don't bother (most of the time)Jan 02 22:27
MinceRso who forbids you to use pidgin?Jan 02 22:27
DaemonFCMinceR: Nobody, but it doesn't do what I want it to either, it just sucks less than EmpathyJan 02 22:28
DaemonFCGalaxium is better on every count except that it's Mono-dependent and needs 100 megs of RAM just to support MSN, and it too doesn't allow video callsJan 02 22:29
cubezzzI didn't even have a IRC client for my cpuJan 02 22:29
cubezzzI figured "Well I'll just port one, can't be that difficult"Jan 02 22:30
DaemonFCyou can go for KMess if you use KDE, but no video calls thereJan 02 22:30
cubezzzand it wasn'tJan 02 22:30
DaemonFCevery messenger claims to have something "in the works" but never ships itJan 02 22:30
MinceRever tried SIP for video? :>Jan 02 22:31
DaemonFCno, because I can't find anyone that uses itJan 02 22:31
DaemonFC"What wonderful support we have for the protocol 0.0000000001% of the population uses"Jan 02 22:31
cubezzzthe answer: some hardware manufacturers don't give out programming specificationsJan 02 22:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] it blows my mind to see videos of guys building skyscrapers with no safety gear on, balancing on beams that look closer to the cloudsJan 02 22:32
cubezzzso buy from someone who does, full stopJan 02 22:32
DaemonFCThe biggest questions I see coming from Linux users is how do you run Windows programs Jan 02 22:32
DaemonFClook at how active the Wine subforum is on Ubuntu's forumsJan 02 22:33
cubezzzbahJan 02 22:33
cubezzzit's like talking to the wallJan 02 22:33
DaemonFCI'll bet there's as many posts in there as all others combinedJan 02 22:33
DaemonFCcubezzz: Well, in theory my graphics card works on LinuxJan 02 22:33
DaemonFCin fact, I can even use the latest git kernelJan 02 22:34
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DaemonFCit's not the kernel's fault that my GPU does not work this time, it is XJan 02 22:34
MinceRDaemonFC: it's as easy as saying "hey, install/start this particular conferencing app and call <my_address>"Jan 02 22:35
DaemonFCbut blaming isn't really correct, I could blame AMDJan 02 22:35
MinceRcertainly easier than trying to hack a closed protocol into workingJan 02 22:35
DaemonFCbut who do you blame, the guys who broke it or the guys who haven't fixed it yetJan 02 22:35
MinceRand then trying to keep up with random changes by m$ aimed at making third-party clients incompatible with their crapJan 02 22:35
MinceRand coping with their downtimeJan 02 22:35
MinceRopen standards exist for a reasonJan 02 22:36 would be the guys that threw a brick through your window, and you're to blame for not fixing the windowJan 02 22:36
cubezzzthat's why I continue to say avoid Microsoft stuff like the plagueJan 02 22:36
DaemonFCthat's how you're supposed to view the world according to the FOSS communityJan 02 22:36
DaemonFCso in this perversion, it's AMD's faultJan 02 22:36
MinceRyou follow the flock into the chasm and then you complain that you're fallingJan 02 22:36
DaemonFCbastardsJan 02 22:36
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MinceRit's certainly the FLOSS community's fault that m$ opposes the FLOSS community. how dare we exist?Jan 02 22:37
DaemonFCif Microsoft broke AMD's drivers every 6 months like clockwork, and AMD customers had to spend the next 3 months waiting for new drivers, customers would be pissed at both partiesJan 02 22:37
cubezzzFOSS pre-exists MicrosoftJan 02 22:38
DaemonFCbut since it's breaking them every 3 months, and thou shalt never be pissed at open source organizations, it's just AMD that's the pricksJan 02 22:38
cubezzzthey way things were, shall be againJan 02 22:38
MinceRwhat's breaking?Jan 02 22:39
cubezzzone basic problem is we don't really have programmers as much as we have weaversJan 02 22:39
MinceRbe specific instead of random FUD.Jan 02 22:39
DaemonFCwell, yeah, AMD *could* release all specs of their card and get sued to bankruptcyJan 02 22:39
cubezzzand people don't try very hard to write portable codeJan 02 22:39
DaemonFCor they could remove all features that a third party company licensed to them and go under cause Nvidia still supports that stuffJan 02 22:39
MinceRamd could acquire the rights to what their card is built onJan 02 22:39
MinceRor they could hire people who know how to write driversJan 02 22:40
MinceRthis isn't rocket scienceJan 02 22:40
DaemonFCMinceR: The rights to HDCP? You're shitting meJan 02 22:40
DaemonFCI'd love to see that go downJan 02 22:40
MinceRi couldn't care less about HDCPJan 02 22:40
DaemonFCimagine all the transistors on the card that are wasted to please the MPAAJan 02 22:41
DaemonFCkind of makes me want to throw upJan 02 22:41
MinceRthe mpaa can get fuckedJan 02 22:41
MinceRget a display that doesn't require HDCPJan 02 22:42
DaemonFCso almost all hardware is designed around whatever Microsoft is doing at the momentJan 02 22:42
cubezzznoJan 02 22:42
DaemonFCand if it happens to work on other operating systems, so much the betterJan 02 22:42
cubezzzmost HDTV's are Linux basedJan 02 22:42
DaemonFCcubezzz: Some are, because Linux can facilitate the DRMJan 02 22:43
DaemonFCand it's free to license and shipJan 02 22:43
cubezzzwhat DRM? I'm on antenna :)Jan 02 22:43
cubezzzFTA FTW Jan 02 22:43
DaemonFCwhy would they go out and pay for something when Linux meets all their criteria for free?Jan 02 22:43
MinceRand like i said, amd could try hiring people who know how to code a driverJan 02 22:43
cubezzzDaemonFC, I'm in a DRM free zoneJan 02 22:44
DaemonFCthey could, but why?Jan 02 22:44
DaemonFCIs Linux making them a fortune?Jan 02 22:44
MinceRso that their proprietary driver wouldn't suck?Jan 02 22:44
DaemonFCWill they still have 99% of their business without it?Jan 02 22:44
MinceRyou know, that outmoded idea of making products that don't suck to make your business prosper?Jan 02 22:45
DaemonFCthe only reason a Linux driver exists at all is cause of their FireGL cards, which cost a lot of moneyJan 02 22:45
cubezzzno DMCA hereJan 02 22:45
MinceRmaybe it's been so long you usian guys have forgotten about it entirelyJan 02 22:45
DaemonFCmost of those customers are using RHEL or SUSE anywayJan 02 22:45
DaemonFCand AMD goes out of their way to certify the drivers for RHEL and SUSEJan 02 22:45
DaemonFCthe bonus of a unified driver model is that lesser cards already have all or most of the work done to be supported as wellJan 02 22:46
MinceRso why aren't you using RHEL or SUSE?Jan 02 22:46
DaemonFCso really, it's a fortunate side effect that your RadeonHD works on UbuntuJan 02 22:47
DaemonFCwhen they were targeting a FireGL card for RHELJan 02 22:47
DaemonFCMinceR: I don't know really, just the oldness kind of puts me offJan 02 22:48
DaemonFCI'm sure CentOS would run beautifully on this machine thoughJan 02 22:48
DaemonFCRed Hat backports pretty much anything driver relatedJan 02 22:48
MinceRbtw, it's possible to install a driver straight from the video card manufacturerJan 02 22:49
DaemonFCof course it isJan 02 22:50
DaemonFCbut if it blows up cause your is too newJan 02 22:50
DaemonFCmaybe freezing your computer, maybe just tossing you out to a terminalJan 02 22:50
DaemonFCwhat do you do?Jan 02 22:51
MinceRinstall an older 02 22:51
DaemonFCmaybe I should just sit with my thumb up my ass and get acquainted with lynx, pine, and vi Jan 02 22:51
MinceRnot that it ever did that to meJan 02 22:51
DaemonFCtil AMD gives me my GUI backJan 02 22:51
MinceRof course you could also try a different driver versionJan 02 22:52
DaemonFCMinceR: Mandriva reacted badly to the Radeon driver IT INSTALLEDJan 02 22:52
DaemonFC:PJan 02 22:52
DaemonFCsomeone has their wires crossedJan 02 22:52
MinceRmandriva also handles locales incorrectlyJan 02 22:53
DaemonFCthe only current distributions which don't ignite when exposed to FGLRX are Ubuntu and OpenSuseJan 02 22:53
MinceRuntil hw manufacturers either get their shit together and start writing shitty drivers or they let someone else do that for them, their products will continue to work badlyJan 02 22:54
DaemonFCand you have to install the drivers manually on OpenSuse cause PackMan still isn't packaging themJan 02 22:54
MinceRmaybe you can work around that, maybe you can'tJan 02 22:54
DaemonFCI like OpenSuse in a lot of waysJan 02 22:55
MinceRs/shitty/non&/Jan 02 22:55
DaemonFCdoesn't seem to have those weird random horrible "only happens to me" bugs that Ubuntu doesJan 02 22:55
MinceRi have yet to see an OS that doesn't produce weird bugsJan 02 22:56
DaemonFCif I had to make a fullscale Linux migration right now, it would be to OpenSuseJan 02 22:56
DaemonFCI mean if I picked something to occupy the whole driveJan 02 22:56
DaemonFCMinceR: Everyone will encounter different bugs in any OSJan 02 22:56
DaemonFCcause people use different programs and features and hardwareJan 02 22:57
DaemonFCyou may use something and it works perfectly, and I hit a dozen bugsi nthe first dayJan 02 22:57
trmancoLOOLJan 02 22:57
trmanco 02 22:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Ender 2070 (ender2070) 's status on Saturday, 02-Jan-10 22:47:27 UTC - .::. Size~: 7.5 KBJan 02 22:58
DaemonFCdoesn't mean they aren't there, it means the way I use the software triggers themJan 02 22:58
MinceR:)Jan 02 22:58
DaemonFCand it seems like every tiem you report something to Ubuntu, that argument always followsJan 02 22:58
DaemonFCwhere it doesn't happen to them, so it must not existJan 02 22:58
DaemonFChell, even having a bunch of people backing you up may not get any developer attention to fix itJan 02 22:59
DaemonFCthey may even still try to say it's not a bugJan 02 22:59
DaemonFCa lot of times, Resolved Not A Bug just means "I don't want to get up off my ass and fix it, and it's not bothering me"Jan 02 23:00
DaemonFC:)Jan 02 23:00
MinceRthe above discussion seems to point to that it's more likely to mean "can't reproduce the bug"Jan 02 23:01
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DaemonFCno, it just means it's not pissing anyone off who can fix it enough to be fixedJan 02 23:02
DaemonFCthat's what INVALID or Not A Bug means 80% of the timeJan 02 23:02
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MinceRmost of the time i wouldn't be able to fix a bug that i can't reproduce :>Jan 02 23:03
DaemonFCbasically, the deficiency report of your typical Linux distribution whose goal is to scalp Windows users has changed little in the last 5 yearsJan 02 23:03
MinceRcan't see what's causing it, can't tell if it's fixed by the changesJan 02 23:03
ender2070_im being harassed again :(Jan 02 23:04
MinceRit doesn't change much, considering what windows' deficiency report isJan 02 23:04
DaemonFCMinceR: The error messages are the first thing to horrify such a personJan 02 23:04
DaemonFCthey don't tell you what's wrong or how to fix it, they just pump out a lot of gibberish most of the timeJan 02 23:05
DaemonFC"There's something wrong with your JMF"Jan 02 23:05
ender2070_DaemonFC - gibberish to youJan 02 23:05
DaemonFCMe: "What the hell is a JMF, what's wrong with it, how do I correct this?"Jan 02 23:05
DaemonFCat least on Windows it'll tell you what you're missing that it's looking forJan 02 23:06
ender2070_1) Ask a programmerJan 02 23:06
ender2070_2) Become a programmerJan 02 23:06
DaemonFCMost of the error messages that I've seen on Linux make Windows 98 stack dumps look positively friendly and invitingJan 02 23:07
ender2070_3) Pay a corporate entity to "fisher price" it up for youJan 02 23:07
DaemonFCso you'd tell a 70 year old woman to become a programmer if Linux is pissing her off?Jan 02 23:07
ender2070_direct her to #3Jan 02 23:07
ender2070_pay a corporate entity to make it easy for herJan 02 23:08
ender2070_ie, microsoftJan 02 23:08
ender2070_Windows is like training wheels to the illiterateJan 02 23:08
DaemonFCor AppleJan 02 23:08
MinceR235708 < DaemonFC> MinceR: The error messages are the first thing to horrify such a personJan 02 23:08
ender2070_yeahJan 02 23:08
MinceR235731 < DaemonFC> they don't tell you what's wrong or how to fix it, they just pump out a lot of gibberish most of the timeJan 02 23:08
MinceRwelcome to the world of ITJan 02 23:08
DaemonFCI've given some passing thoughts to a Mac beforeJan 02 23:08
MinceR235834 < DaemonFC> at least on Windows it'll tell you what you're missing that it's looking forJan 02 23:08
DaemonFCthen I tried using one and froze itJan 02 23:08
MinceRno it won'tJan 02 23:08
DaemonFC:)Jan 02 23:09
MinceRit will tell you "ask your sysadmin about it"Jan 02 23:09
MinceR1) he won't know any better than you willJan 02 23:09
MinceR2) many users don't even have oneJan 02 23:09
DaemonFCI figure that if they freeze and crash and have malicious software, then why pay double to have one?Jan 02 23:09
DaemonFC:)Jan 02 23:09
DaemonFCMinceR: System Administrator for my PC?Jan 02 23:10
DaemonFCI guess it's either me or the catJan 02 23:10
MinceRexactlyJan 02 23:10
DaemonFCI was kind of mad that they removed the classic start menu :(Jan 02 23:12
DaemonFCWhat did it ever do to anybody? :PJan 02 23:12
MinceRit wasn't shiny or new enoughJan 02 23:12
DaemonFCit was quicker to useJan 02 23:13
ender2070_thats why they removed itJan 02 23:13
DaemonFCthis new one is just awful, throws a million things you likely don't want right now in front of you and makes you click into another menu to see all your applicationsJan 02 23:13
ender2070_ms takes a simple task, then makes it take longer by burying it behind menus and menusJan 02 23:14
DaemonFCI hated it in XP and I hate it nowJan 02 23:14
DaemonFCbut now you can't turn it offJan 02 23:14
MinceRthey had to force as many users to get used to the new one as possible, so that they'd insist on having a winblows version that has it, i guessJan 02 23:14
ender2070_I use KDE's classic menu tooJan 02 23:14
ender2070_or I use KRunnerJan 02 23:14
DaemonFCI'd say I've been hampered rather than helped by most of the GUI changes in Windows 7Jan 02 23:14
DaemonFCI've considered popping Vista back in to revert the changesJan 02 23:15
MinceRi mostly use search from the kde menu or gmrunJan 02 23:15
MinceRor krunnerJan 02 23:15
DaemonFCthey have to support Vista Professional til 2016Jan 02 23:15
DaemonFCI could just use it :PJan 02 23:15
DaemonFCor, BusinessJan 02 23:15
MinceRi think i have one more idea for forcing the new menu: the old one lacked some options that they wanted to make available and couldn't be bothered to implement them in the old oneJan 02 23:16
MinceRbut i don't know if it doesJan 02 23:16
DaemonFCI don't care, I still want it backJan 02 23:16
DaemonFCthere's some kind of program you can install that emulates the old start menuJan 02 23:16
DaemonFCbut you can't remove the new one from the taskbarJan 02 23:16
ender2070_I loves KRunnerJan 02 23:17
MinceRyou won't get it from me, i don't influence this stuff :>Jan 02 23:17
MinceRi'd also use gnome-do to access my notes (txt files) by typing part of the nameJan 02 23:17
MinceRbut it insists on popping under all the other windows so i can'tJan 02 23:17
DaemonFC 02 23:18
DaemonFCinstall one program to get it back and another one always loaded to suppress the new menuJan 02 23:18
DaemonFClulzJan 02 23:18
MinceRthat's the windows wayJan 02 23:18
MinceRkeep running 2 or 3 more apps to fix one featureJan 02 23:18
MinceRon kde, you can just add/remove applets to/from the panelsJan 02 23:19
DaemonFCheh, I have a buyer for that old TVJan 02 23:27
DaemonFCget it out of here, make some moneyJan 02 23:27
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] MPs claim they are above the law in expenses fraud case - So much for "whiter than white" 02 23:39
phIRCe-localTitle:  MPs claim they are above the law in expenses fraud case - Times Online  .::. Size~: 118.14 KBJan 02 23:39
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DaemonFCDouglas Hogg strikes back? :)Jan 02 23:47
DaemonFCComes back to have his moat cleaned again?Jan 02 23:47
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