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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 23rd, 2010

_goblinIve seen that already (or similar article).....what do I think?.........well....Jan 23 00:00
schestowitzAll I can say it is that it does not help national securityJan 23 00:00
*Kango_VC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jan 23 00:01
schestowitzFrom a state's selfish point of view, it's no good. It only increases outside threat, IMHOJan 23 00:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @ABridgwater MS's w/less keyboard with 30-feet range Ideal for users that like to type 30-feet away from screenJan 23 00:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Wireless Laser Desktop 7000 .::. Size~: 48.03 KBJan 23 00:02
_goblinI think NOBODY is above the law.  I think we all must justify and be responsible for our own I was saying when you mentioned police violence at a protest, if actions are not proportionate then the individual(s) who engage in it must be brought to account....same with armed services, whatever rights or wrongs are done, the person must be responsible for their actions and show that it fit in with whats called SMART.Jan 23 00:02
_goblin...Jan 23 00:02
_goblinSMART = Jan 23 00:03
_goblinSpecific Measurable Achievable Relevant & Timely.Jan 23 00:03
schestowitz_goblin: 23 00:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BERNAMA - Amendment To Copyright Act .::. Size~: 19.29 KBJan 23 00:03
_goblinand refers to any actions of a government bodyJan 23 00:03
schestowitzYes, I hope it ends this abuse by "bad apples"Jan 23 00:04
_goblinwhilst being Proportionate & legal.Jan 23 00:04
schestowitzBut my issue is, some official seem to be supportive of those so-called "apples"Jan 23 00:04
_goblinand they too must be held to task if shown to have acted inappropriately.Jan 23 00:04
_goblinfor example, the guy with the knife to the throat of another will be dealt with differently to the shoplifter who is compliant and appologeticJan 23 00:06
_goblinproportionality and justification for ones actions.Jan 23 00:06
*cubezzz ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 00:07
_goblinAs I said to you before, the right to peaceful protest is a right I fully support.  The right to be treated with dignity and respect is another......its a two way street though and just as the police must respect the peaceful protestors, the peaceful protestors must respect the police.Jan 23 00:08
_goblinthat way everyone wins.Jan 23 00:08
_goblinIn respect of military actions though its slightly cannot have an army that has troops thinking and discussing "orders from above" it would not work, thats why in cases of military misconduct is the person who gave the order not the one who followed that should be held to account.Jan 23 00:10
_goblinand of course anyone who acts on their own should be accountable for their own actions.Jan 23 00:11
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 00:12
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: ugh, whoever thought wireless keyboard/mouse was a good idea. beats meJan 23 00:12
oiaohm  Interesting.Jan 23 00:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: git repository browser .::. Size~: 306.63 KBJan 23 00:12
oiaohmThey are a good idea for prestations and other things FurnaceBoyJan 23 00:13
oiaohmBut general usage Hmm not that great.Jan 23 00:13
FurnaceBoybatteries. world needs more batteries.Jan 23 00:13
_goblinlol....just read that article roy.......VCD?  What year are they living in?Jan 23 00:13
FurnaceBoygreat for presentations when the battery gives out on you. Murphy's Law.Jan 23 00:14
oiaohmNot really the computer computer is more likely to give out than the batteries.Jan 23 00:14
oiaohmBuggerJan 23 00:14
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: hm?Jan 23 00:14
oiaohmI ment complete computer not computer computer.Jan 23 00:14
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: well, laptop battery, yes.Jan 23 00:14
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but most ppl are smart enough to use ac adapter in this circumstance, which helps wireless shit not at all.Jan 23 00:15
oiaohmWell charged wireless mice and keyboards have longer battiery live than most laptops.Jan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoyno doubt, which has nothing to do with my pointJan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoyMurphy's Law!Jan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoyeven sitting here at home,Jan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoyI can count on the keyboard and/or mouse to die at the worst possible moment.Jan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoythat's an irritation I do not need. ever.Jan 23 00:15
schestowitzWhat a load of rubbish this is: From the people who gave you ACTAJan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoy#firstworldproblems, tooJan 23 00:15
schestowitz[00:12] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: ugh, whoever thought wireless keyboard/mouse was a good idea. beats meJan 23 00:15
schestowitzBatteries brands :-)Jan 23 00:15
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: yesJan 23 00:16
oiaohmI do a lot of field presetations.  FurnaceBoyJan 23 00:16
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: consumablesJan 23 00:16
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: well if it works for you.Jan 23 00:16
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: i jsut wouldn't use one at a desk, everJan 23 00:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Intellectual Property Watch  » Blog Archive   » United States Moves To Promote Internet Freedom, ‘Knowledge Commons’  .::. Size~: 45.97 KBJan 23 00:16
schestowitzOh, I see you beat me to it, re batteriesJan 23 00:16
oiaohmI never use then at a desk unless I have a backup.Jan 23 00:16
oiaohmEven in a presentation I have a backup ie the laptop keyboard and track pad.  FurnaceBoyJan 23 00:16
schestowitz[00:16] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: consumablesJan 23 00:17
schestowitzI hate this wordJan 23 00:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: then again, people are well trained to put gas in their cars. but it's a whole way of life i don't want.Jan 23 00:17
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: :)Jan 23 00:17
oiaohmBasically Murfy is nothing more than a minor pest to me.Jan 23 00:17
schestowitzToday: "The consumerization of IT -- and of Microsoft";post-5019Jan 23 00:17
schestowitzThat's the phrase used by SteveB in some Gartner sessionJan 23 00:17
schestowitzHe went ape over  "The consumerization of IT"Jan 23 00:18
oiaohmOk minor pest unless the Murpfy pest happens to be MS.Jan 23 00:18
oiaohmIe MicrosoftJan 23 00:18
FurnaceBoyurghJan 23 00:19
FurnaceBoyyou rely on them in your job?Jan 23 00:19
oiaohmI am the Linux guy in the firm I am in.Jan 23 00:19
oiaohmI can almost alway bet any trouble the network is happening that is being blamed on the Linux box's source is a windows box somewhere.Jan 23 00:20
oiaohmNothing more insane that MS SBS 2003 installing a update and shooting its raid control and network drivers so leading to the complete network going at a snales pace because the MS SBS 2003 is spamming the network with junk.Jan 23 00:21
FurnaceBoy:)Jan 23 00:21
schestowitz 23 00:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 23 00:21
schestowitz:-(Jan 23 00:21
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: right, i've been lucky enough to avoid Windows my whole career. miraculous.Jan 23 00:21
*FurnaceBoy touches woodJan 23 00:21
FurnaceBoyand i'm hell bent on helping everyone else avoid it too.Jan 23 00:22
oiaohmMy long term goal is to get everything converted over.Jan 23 00:22
FurnaceBoygodd*mn curse, pestilenceJan 23 00:22
oiaohmGets worse My Linux box's were getting blamed for breaking the vpn and it was windows insanity as well.Jan 23 00:23
FurnaceBoyLOLJan 23 00:23
FurnaceBoywhich vpn?Jan 23 00:24
oiaohmI don't know who designed the Windows network stack they need to be shot.Jan 23 00:24
oiaohmUpdate network card driver stall complete stack.   Update firewall settings stall the stack.  Do large file movements stall the stack.Jan 23 00:24
oiaohmopenvpn FurnaceBoyJan 23 00:25
FurnaceBoyahJan 23 00:25
FurnaceBoylove itJan 23 00:25
oiaohmNice solid and dependable when someone does not plug windows server inbetween it and the modem.Jan 23 00:25
FurnaceBoyused it for years on linux, os x, windows and solaris clientJan 23 00:25
FurnaceBoyvery!!!!Jan 23 00:25
FurnaceBoyi use it 24/7Jan 23 00:25
oiaohmBasically the windows guy is in for a skinning.Jan 23 00:26
FurnaceBoythat is one hell of  a product.Jan 23 00:26
MinceR012154 < oiaohm> I don't know who designed the Windows network stack they need to be shot.Jan 23 00:27
oiaohmDid not know to configure Linux but since the modem was was out of ports he unpluged my Linux box and put his windows box in middle and past the vpn stuff threw.Jan 23 00:27
MinceRthey guy who said "oh, let's just steal it from BSD", the guy who did the BSD stack or the guy who changed it in windows? :>Jan 23 00:27
oiaohmBSD stack is very stable MinceRJan 23 00:27
oiaohmIt don't do stupidity.Jan 23 00:27
oiaohmYou can add a driver to the old BSD stack without having to pause all traffic.Jan 23 00:28
oiaohmYes all traffic on all cards stops while windows loads a network card driver.Jan 23 00:28
FurnaceBoythe stack is now rewritten, apparently.Jan 23 00:29
oiaohmLot of it is major locking stuffups MinceRJan 23 00:29
oiaohmI have already used 2008 with the so called new stack.Jan 23 00:30
MinceRwell, the marketroids keep saying they've rewritten itJan 23 00:30
oiaohmYes it rewrittenJan 23 00:30
MinceRjust like they keep saying everything is omfg-new in every winblows releaseJan 23 00:30
MinceRyet the same old bugs are found all the timeJan 23 00:30
FurnaceBoy:)Jan 23 00:30
oiaohmIt has a complete new set of evils.Jan 23 00:31
FurnaceBoyWMFJan 23 00:31
oiaohmYes MS did make a new stack but they should have got more skilled coders to make it.Jan 23 00:31
FurnaceBoy"Greatest hits AND all new tracks!"Jan 23 00:31
oiaohmAlso so much for MS backward driver compadiblity.Jan 23 00:32
MinceR 23 00:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS08-001  Critical: Vulnerabilities in Windows TCP/IP Could Allow Remote Code Execution (941644) .::. Size~: 171.91 KBJan 23 00:32
MinceRmaybe they took extra care to reimplement bugsJan 23 00:32
oiaohmIf your network card drivers are over 1 year old the sbs advisers  tells you to replace at moment.Jan 23 00:32
MinceRor "rewriting" means "hiring a couple peons to retype the same code again"Jan 23 00:32
FurnaceBoytrmanco hasn't signed in since arriving here?Jan 23 00:33
FurnaceBoyhere = ontarioJan 23 00:33
FurnaceBoyrnb: i just realised, Harper must be under control by masters stateside. independence is a charade.Jan 23 00:34
FurnaceBoyrnb: gonna be very hard to dislodgeJan 23 00:34
oiaohmNotice 2008 server is not listed on that bug MinceRJan 23 00:34
MinceRit does disprove one of their claims of having completely rewritten the network stack, thoughJan 23 00:34
MinceRdoesn't exactly encourage trust in their claims of such things :>Jan 23 00:35
oiaohmVista has a hybred between new and old.Jan 23 00:35
MinceRthat's not what they said back then.Jan 23 00:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Harper obviously under control of stateside masters. How are we going to dislodge him? Need to avoid the Bush->Obama shell game. #canadaJan 23 00:35
oiaohmyou will find it all depends on what firewalling software you load and what network card drivers you have what one it uses MinceRJan 23 00:35
oiaohmMS cheated Vista to get it in market.Jan 23 00:36
MinceR"Windows Vista also has a completely rewritten its implementation of the TCP/IP protocol stack." >> 23 00:36
oiaohmYes it does.Jan 23 00:36
oiaohmAlong with the old one as well that they don't say MinceRJan 23 00:36
oiaohmFor driver compadiblity reasons.Jan 23 00:36
MinceRin that case, they've completely reimplemented the vulnerability mentioned aboveJan 23 00:36
MinceRit's good to see that backwards compatibility is _so_ important to them :>Jan 23 00:37
oiaohmIe not all vistas were at risk of that vulnerablityJan 23 00:37
oiaohm2 stacks not 1 for doing tcp/ip are in vista.Jan 23 00:37
MinceRalso notice that the marketroids don't even speak englishJan 23 00:37
oiaohmAlso kinda to be expected.Jan 23 00:37
oiaohmWhat would MS do if the new stack was a complete lemon.Jan 23 00:38
oiaohmAnd they could not run the old.Jan 23 00:38
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: sell lemonade with AspartameJan 23 00:38
MinceRi wouldn't require marketroids to be capable of a lot of things, but i'd certainly require them to know the language they're going to produce their lies^Wadvertisements in.Jan 23 00:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@bitchphd RT @sidravitale corporate 'people' don't have moral obligations. Ergo Corps = sociopaths // overwhelmingly borne out by evidenceJan 23 00:38
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: their cynicism and unhelpfulness is infinteJan 23 00:38
FurnaceBoyinfinite*Jan 23 00:38
MinceRif the new stack was a complete lemon, nobody would notice the difference :>Jan 23 00:39
oiaohmBasically complete truthfulness would have scared people off Vista MinceRJan 23 00:39
FurnaceBoyMinceR: heheJan 23 00:39
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: truth is sunlight to the Microsoft vampire.Jan 23 00:39
MinceRindeedJan 23 00:39
oiaohmRemember the direct X update in Vista was also done the same way MinceRJan 23 00:39
oiaohmIe 2 stacksJan 23 00:39
oiaohmYet for some reason people did not question why the MS marketters were saying different to what MS coders always do.Jan 23 00:40
oiaohmThere worse halfway attempt was Windows MEJan 23 00:40
MinceRsome people believe every word from m$ as if it was the word of godJan 23 00:40
cubezzzhaJan 23 00:41
MinceRothers don't believe any of their wordsJan 23 00:41
oiaohmI don't believe there word.Jan 23 00:41
oiaohmI believe what I see as results.Jan 23 00:41
MinceRbut if i put a reimplementation beside the original and use both, then i can't truthfully claim that i've reimplemented the whole thing, can i? :>Jan 23 00:41
cubezzzwho really knows what they doJan 23 00:41
MinceRnobody doesJan 23 00:42
cubezzzwell, I assume the programmers do :)Jan 23 00:42
oiaohmThey can claim they reimplemented the complete thing.Jan 23 00:42
cubezzzthe guys on the insideJan 23 00:42
oiaohmThey are leaving out telling you they have a fall back MinceRJan 23 00:42
MinceRi think their programmers have provided plenty of evidence that they have no idea what they're doingJan 23 00:42
MinceRlong agoJan 23 00:42
cubezzzthey didn't even have their own compiler at one pointJan 23 00:42
oiaohmRemember the new Vista video stack was also marketed as a full reimplementation as well.Jan 23 00:43
oiaohmThen when people painked about compadiblity they owned up to the fall back stack being there.Jan 23 00:43
cubezzzcopy, absorb, embrace, extinguishJan 23 00:43
MinceRyet they've still failed hard at compatibilityJan 23 00:43
MinceRthe worst of two worlds, as always with m$Jan 23 00:43
cubezzzthats the pointJan 23 00:43
cubezzzotherwise no one would do the endless updatesJan 23 00:44
cubezzzbusinesses must be getting tired of it thoughJan 23 00:45
oiaohmThere is now a developer working on a direct galluim3d link for direct x from wine.Jan 23 00:46
cubezzzthe fact of the matter is they stole the BASIC interpreter AND... they initially used Lattice C as a compilerJan 23 00:46
cubezzzthen they just keep redressing doze with new eye candy every few yearsJan 23 00:47
oiaohmBasically Open source is embrancing and extending.Jan 23 00:47
cubezzzwell...Jan 23 00:47
cubezzzyou get to do your own extendingJan 23 00:48
oiaohmItems like ebox are targeting interfacing with ADS servers.Jan 23 00:48
oiaohmBasically how long before they turn vampire.Jan 23 00:48
_goblinanyone used Dream Linux here?Jan 23 00:48
_goblinbeing tempted by the Xfce flavourJan 23 00:48
oiaohmI run kinda standard debian.Jan 23 00:50
oiaohmso not interested in DrJan 23 00:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I am liking the look of Dream Linux Xfce....lets see how it performs.....Jan 23 00:50
_goblinheres a question..............Jan 23 00:51
_goblinhas Python removed the need for Bash scripting for the average user?Jan 23 00:52
cubezzzI have hundreds of Bash scriptsJan 23 00:52
oiaohmDepends on the user _goblinJan 23 00:52
oiaohm3d work all my scripts are python.Jan 23 00:53
_goblinI ask the question after reading a book on advanced command line scripting....I am reading it thinking.....Python can do that and that and that.....Jan 23 00:53
oiaohmAlmost all my admin work is bash.Jan 23 00:53
oiaohmTo be correct ashJan 23 00:53
cubezzzno python on some systems Jan 23 00:53
MinceRi don't think that the average user needs to write scripts at all :>Jan 23 00:53
oiaohmdashJan 23 00:53
FurnaceBoycubezzz | who really knows what they do +++++ the motive is always greed and lock-in anyway, not excellenceJan 23 00:53
_goblinI am ashamed to admit that it took the book to teach me about piping data in the CLIJan 23 00:54
FurnaceBoy_goblin: bash remains more concise for most shell scriptingJan 23 00:54
oiaohm  << _goblinJan 23 00:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Debian Almquist shell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 31.8 KBJan 23 00:54
FurnaceBoy_goblin: Python isn't really in that space, except tangentiallyJan 23 00:54
cubezzz_goblin, didn't you do that on Amiga? :)Jan 23 00:54
oiaohmMain advantage of items like dash is low memory foot print.Jan 23 00:54
oiaohmso faster to load than python _goblinJan 23 00:55
oiaohmAnd not going to eat resources badly.Jan 23 00:55
FurnaceBoyright. but Python's too verbose for simple stuffJan 23 00:55
oiaohmIe whey it still used a lot in admin.Jan 23 00:55
_goblindon't get me wrong, Im not challenging the answer, I am merely interested.....Jan 23 00:55
_goblinIm pleased I read the book though.Jan 23 00:55
oiaohmPython is basically becomein the vba of Linux.Jan 23 00:55
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: not forgetting PHP is the ASP hahaJan 23 00:56
oiaohmPython is basically becoming the most common macro language on linux.Jan 23 00:56
_goblinhas anyone here used pyOpenGL?Jan 23 00:56
oiaohmYou normally don't see bash or dash used as macro languages.Jan 23 00:57
oiaohmThey are not designed to intergrate into application.Jan 23 00:57
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: what do you mean by 'macro language' ? extension language?Jan 23 00:57
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: Lua is even preferable to Python, and JS is gaining there thanks to the skill base and useful vmsJan 23 00:57
oiaohmA langage used inside other applications to run and perform actions inside that application.  ie macro's.  FurnaceBoyJan 23 00:57
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: right. Lua is also popular here.Jan 23 00:58
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: and expect JS to grow, since the skills existJan 23 00:58
oiaohmPython just has the lead at this stage FurnaceBoyJan 23 00:58
FurnaceBoyin the complex end of the space, sureJan 23 00:58
cubezzzI wrote a bash script to watchdog processesJan 23 00:58
FurnaceBoyLua is far simpler...Jan 23 00:58
MinceRsimpler isn't always better :>Jan 23 00:58
FurnaceBoyMinceR: it is for embeddedJan 23 00:58
cubezzzI guess I'd use bash unless it just couldn't do the jobJan 23 00:58
FurnaceBoyMinceR: sometimesJan 23 00:59
oiaohmPython is simple enough and complex enough to do almost every macroing task that could ever be required.Jan 23 00:59
FurnaceBoycubezzz: it's basically my policyJan 23 00:59
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: they all areJan 23 00:59
*FurnaceBoy believes in diversityJan 23 00:59
cubezzzsometimes I have to crunch big numbersJan 23 00:59
cubezzzI don't use scripts for thatJan 23 00:59
oiaohmJS does not have a clean handling for interfacing with external .so/dlls to the application.Jan 23 01:00
FurnaceBoycubezzz: right, you'd want something with native bignumsJan 23 01:00
cubezzzI'm not going to write a chess engine in python :)Jan 23 01:00
oiaohmLua I think it has the same weakness.Jan 23 01:00
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: no, Lua can easily do that.Jan 23 01:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Book by Petra Buhr "Patente (und Copyrights) auf Software?" 23 01:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Patente (und Copyrights) auf Software? - Petra Buhr bei Rechtswissenschaften (endet  18.02.10 20:07:52 MEZ) .::. Size~: 114.44 KBJan 23 01:00
*FurnaceBoy has embedded Lua with callbacks in both directionsJan 23 01:00
cubezzzanything that has to be fast -> CJan 23 01:00
_goblincubezzz: Sorry I missed your earlier comment....No I meant I had never got around to learning the syntax in Linux C/L to do it....years of being away from the Amiga probably made me a GUI lamer ;)Jan 23 01:01
cubezzzthe interesting thing is I'm the oppositeJan 23 01:01
oiaohmOk just Lua is not poplular in the tools I use.  Makehuman blender and so on are basically fully python beasts.Jan 23 01:01
oiaohmAs yes they need speed as well cubezzzJan 23 01:01
FurnaceBoycubezzz: be careful there... 23 01:01
cubezzzI even watch tv as a bash scriptJan 23 01:01
FurnaceBoy^^ the late Erik Naggum summed up the risks of calling C 'fast'Jan 23 01:02
_goblinI like this.......:Jan 23 01:02
_goblin"If you're searching for an operating system that allows the freedom of worldwide communication; "Jan 23 01:02
_goblinwhat most operating systems don't allow that?Jan 23 01:02
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: Lua is coming from the "small" end ... some apps will need something more intricate, i guess.Jan 23 01:02
oiaohm_goblin:  the big thing about coding laugauge they have there uses.Jan 23 01:03
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but others of course small, simple is good. Lua is very quickly learned as it is so trivialJan 23 01:03
FurnaceBoyit's also very fastJan 23 01:03
cubezzzhehJan 23 01:03
cubezzz"Microsoft is not the answer.  Microsoft is the question.  NO is the answer."Jan 23 01:03
FurnaceBoyheheJan 23 01:03
oiaohmFurnaceBoy: Python forces neat layout of code or it don't run FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:03
FurnaceBoythat was in 1994 , too.Jan 23 01:03
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I know.Jan 23 01:03
MinceR020016 < _goblin> what most operating systems don't allow that?Jan 23 01:03
cubezzzwell let me say this...Jan 23 01:03
cubezzzall the cube calculators used CJan 23 01:04
MinceRdepending on how strict you are, proprietary OS-es don't :>Jan 23 01:04
_goblinGuess where that quote comes from...Jan 23 01:04
cubezzzall of themJan 23 01:04
cubezzzno one used anything elseJan 23 01:04
_goblinsounds text book Microsoft?Jan 23 01:04
_goblinor Apple?Jan 23 01:04
MinceRcrAppleJan 23 01:04
FurnaceBoycubezzz: speed/C correlation gets weaker all the timeJan 23 01:04
_goblinits actually dream Linux.Jan 23 01:04
oiaohmDon't lye cubezzz some calculators are coded in forth.Jan 23 01:04
MinceRicJan 23 01:04
cubezzzno no noJan 23 01:04
MinceRi've seen it often in e-mail sigsJan 23 01:04
_goblinHeres the quote in context:Jan 23 01:05
cubezzzcube calculators, as in studying cube space :)Jan 23 01:05
_goblin"If you're searching for an operating system that allows the freedom of worldwide communication; to use the same types of material produced by a worldwide community to read, write and produce art, drawings, images, music etc... better yet; to easily, quickly and safely share them all, you will now have no excuse to not give Dreamlinux 3.5 Desktop Edition a try."Jan 23 01:05
cubezzze.g. rubik's cube :)Jan 23 01:05
oiaohmSame with some sections of bios are still done in forthJan 23 01:05
MinceRoh, that quoteJan 23 01:05
FurnaceBoycubezzz: odd, i saw one in Lisp just this weeekJan 23 01:05
MinceRi thought it was cubezzz's quoteJan 23 01:05
FurnaceBoycubezzz: written by a friend.Jan 23 01:05
FurnaceBoyLisp can be very comparable or faster than C for some problems.Jan 23 01:05
cubezzzshow meJan 23 01:05
cubezzzok, let me show you insteadJan 23 01:05
FurnaceBoycubezzz: just grabbing mailJan 23 01:05
FurnaceBoycubezzz: I believe you, but the C=fast thing is no axiomJan 23 01:06
cubezzz 23 01:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 23 01:06
FurnaceBoycubezzz: Naggum gave some arguments, and 30 years of development has done the restJan 23 01:06
FurnaceBoycubezzz: the project is RubikAIJan 23 01:06
oiaohmIssue why forth is used over C in places is forth is closer to how the hardware works.Jan 23 01:07
FurnaceBoycubezzz: by an ex-Googler, 23 01:07
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: hahahahJan 23 01:07
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I only used one system with a register stackJan 23 01:07
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: TransputerJan 23 01:07
oiaohmI said closer.Jan 23 01:07
FurnaceBoycubezzz: he may not be interested in speed. I'm not citing this in that context, just as a Rubik app in Lisp.Jan 23 01:07
oiaohmIt did not say exact match FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:07
cubezzzwhat the heck is hg?Jan 23 01:08
MinceRthe version control system called MercurialJan 23 01:08
cubezzzI'm talking about counting each element at every levelJan 23 01:08
MinceRor the element Mercury :>Jan 23 01:08
oiaohmC is only as good as the C complier under it.Jan 23 01:09
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: AND the programmer.Jan 23 01:09
cubezzzhg clone??Jan 23 01:09
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: Naggum made all the salient points.Jan 23 01:09
oiaohmNot the programmer that much FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:09
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: C needs experience to write well, and C++ even moresoJan 23 01:09
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: then you didn't read Naggum.Jan 23 01:09
oiaohmYes I have.Jan 23 01:09
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: you discount his points?Jan 23 01:10
oiaohmAnd Naggum never used items like PGroup compliers.Jan 23 01:10
FurnaceBoythe compiler cannot substitute for intelligence.Jan 23 01:10
FurnaceBoyand experience.Jan 23 01:10
oiaohmBad arguement.Jan 23 01:10
FurnaceBoya novice will write a slow or unreliable program in CJan 23 01:10
FurnaceBoyor unmaintainableJan 23 01:10
FurnaceBoyas much as any language.Jan 23 01:11
oiaohmThat is the funny thing.Jan 23 01:11
FurnaceBoyactually worse, b/c of the micromanaging they will doJan 23 01:11
oiaohmThe deeper the complier can path the code.Jan 23 01:11
FurnaceBoyi can link to a perfect case in pointJan 23 01:11
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: Naggum was talking more about logical errorsJan 23 01:11
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: misdesign. not failure of compiler optimisations.Jan 23 01:11
oiaohmThe more logical areas are displayed.Jan 23 01:11
cubezzzthe big crunchers always use CJan 23 01:11
oiaohmNot true cubezzzJan 23 01:12
cubezzznot java, not scriptsJan 23 01:12
FurnaceBoycubezzz: right, but the correlation weakens every year...Jan 23 01:12
oiaohmLot of USA mil stuff still uses ADAJan 23 01:12
FurnaceBoycubezzz: as you see if you look at the state of the art in functional languages etc.Jan 23 01:12
FurnaceBoyhere's an interesting talk. 23 01:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Caml Trading talk at CMU | .::. Size~: 21.55 KBJan 23 01:12
*trmanco (i=40e547be@gateway/web/freenode/x-yuasjnjpamidvvtf) has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 01:12
cubezzzwhat do they use for chess?Jan 23 01:12
cubezzznot ADAJan 23 01:12
FurnaceBoytrmanco: bem vindoJan 23 01:12
FurnaceBoycubezzz: FPGAJan 23 01:13
trmancohey heyJan 23 01:13
FurnaceBoycubezzz: there's no point in defending C as "the fastest choice". it's rarely true now.Jan 23 01:13
trmanco:>Jan 23 01:13
FurnaceBoycubezzz: was only ever true in the hands of a good coder.Jan 23 01:13
FurnaceBoytrmanco: arrive safely?Jan 23 01:13
_goblinschestowitz:  When you come back to your know we were talking about MS not being able to tell the difference anymore between truth and lie...look at this quote "We never intended to ever mislead people." - you can see it in context here: what a crock.  Who is MS kidding here?Jan 23 01:13
cubezzzit's not the fastestJan 23 01:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft moving away from "points system" for XBox, other services | WMExperts .::. Size~: 56.95 KBJan 23 01:13
FurnaceBoycubezzz: then we agree :)Jan 23 01:13
oiaohmC is only the fastest option of you have a complier than can path the code and improve it for the platform.Jan 23 01:13
cubezzzassembler is the fastestJan 23 01:13
trmancoFurnaceBoy: yesJan 23 01:13
trmancofreat flightJan 23 01:14
FurnaceBoycubezzz: it can be, but a mediocre C programmer will be beaten by an experienced programmer in many other environmentsJan 23 01:14
trmancogreat*Jan 23 01:14
oiaohmProblem is most c complier cannot optimise.Jan 23 01:14
FurnaceBoycubezzz: again, not necessarily. Naggum's arguments apply even more strongly to assembler.Jan 23 01:14
FurnaceBoycubezzz: besides asm is not portable nor maintainable, which are usually more crucial than speedJan 23 01:14
oiaohmNaggum arguement was about that coders quality would improve speed.   The shocking results with Pgroup compliers is that it made almost no difference.Jan 23 01:15
schestowitzCommodity....... 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: no, naggum's arguments are independent of compilerJan 23 01:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nokia To Bring Free, Global Turn-By-Turn Navigation to its Smartphones [UPDATED] .::. Size~: 95.77 KBJan 23 01:15
schestowitztrmanco: wb!Jan 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: completelyJan 23 01:15
schestowitz_goblin: thanks, good oneJan 23 01:15
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oiaohmSince the complier would rewrite the code.  FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: hahahaaJan 23 01:15
trmancoschestowitz: thanks :>Jan 23 01:15
schestowitzMore Linux apps coming because of Amazon, games too 23 01:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Amazon’s Kindle to join the portable gaming war, albeit in monochrome, news, Kindle news, .::. Size~: 39.16 KBJan 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: noJan 23 01:15
oiaohmI do mean rewrite.  FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:15
trmancobut I'm not here for longJan 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: it cannot replace a stupid algorithm with a good one.Jan 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: *cannot*Jan 23 01:15
cubezzzwe have been writing cube calculators since 1980Jan 23 01:15
oiaohmLOLJan 23 01:15
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: a bubble sort will remain a bubble sort.Jan 23 01:16
oiaohmPath following works out what the algorithm is.Jan 23 01:16
FurnaceBoy......Jan 23 01:16
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: again, programmer experience is the critical factor.Jan 23 01:16
cubezzzanywaysJan 23 01:16
oiaohmSo yes bubble sort by PGroup tools are detect and faster forms are recommend.Jan 23 01:16
FurnaceBoyLOL!Jan 23 01:16
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: citation?Jan 23 01:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: and what if it's not a sort?Jan 23 01:17
cubezzzI think I did the best with icc Jan 23 01:17
cubezzzbut that's still CJan 23 01:17
oiaohmBubble short has a detect patern.Jan 23 01:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: what if it's a different type of algorithm - say finding prime numbers.Jan 23 01:17
MinceRare we really expecting programmers to use bubble sort and considering that the most important issue to be solved? :>Jan 23 01:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: EXPERIENCE is the Number One factor.Jan 23 01:17
oiaohmExperience is only one factor.Jan 23 01:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: compiler can't replace experience.Jan 23 01:18
oiaohmQuality of tools to advise you in the right direct can help a lot.Jan 23 01:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: ask a novice C compiler to produce a program to find first million primes.Jan 23 01:18
cubezzzgiven the same algorithm, which language would be the fastest for executing?Jan 23 01:18
oiaohmAlso means you don't mess as much.Jan 23 01:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: ask an experienced programmer.Jan 23 01:18
cubezzzright let's talk about primes thenJan 23 01:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: compiler will not convert the novice's program into that which an experienced programmer would write.Jan 23 01:18
oiaohmWhat if the complier support tols know how.Jan 23 01:18
cubezzzwhat do the prime guys use?Jan 23 01:18
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: you sound naiveJan 23 01:18
FurnaceBoycubezzz: google Fabrice BellardJan 23 01:18
oiaohmLot of novice programmers speed slow downs disappear with path following solving FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:19
cubezzzmost chess programs are CJan 23 01:19
FurnaceBoycubezzz: they may use C. the bottlenecks tend to be bignum and huge crypto methodsJan 23 01:19
FurnaceBoycubezzz: the fastest are not.Jan 23 01:19
FurnaceBoycubezzz: the fastest are VHDL or Verilog :DJan 23 01:19
trmancocya later :PJan 23 01:19
oiaohmLike more and more modern day C compliers have the option to auto thread and the like.Jan 23 01:20
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I'll take your word for it.Jan 23 01:20
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: have you used ErlangJan 23 01:20
oiaohmSo person does not have to get skilled in threading to get the performance from threading.Jan 23 01:20
FurnaceBoyLOLJan 23 01:20
FurnaceBoytried Erlang?Jan 23 01:20
oiaohmso they no longer need to be as skilled to get the same advantages.Jan 23 01:20
FurnaceBoytrmanco: ping me when you're coming downtownJan 23 01:20
cubezzzI see Fabrice Bellard uses C :)Jan 23 01:20
FurnaceBoycubezzz: he wrote tccJan 23 01:20
schestowitzMaybe theswingle will be useful for something after all. 23 01:21
trmancoFurnaceBoy: Sometime soon :PJan 23 01:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Amazon Wants To Emulate Apple With Kindle Apps - .::. Size~: 48.59 KBJan 23 01:21
schestowitztrmanco: wait.Jan 23 01:21
schestowitzHow's it going?Jan 23 01:21
schestowitzYou seem happy!Jan 23 01:21
trmancogoodJan 23 01:21
trmanco:>Jan 23 01:21
schestowitzRacquel must be jealous ! :-pJan 23 01:21
trmancoI only need a chick to completly be happyJan 23 01:21
oiaohmErlang does not help you with a novice FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:22
MinceRFurnaceBoy: can those FPGA-based chess machines beat supercomputers at chess?Jan 23 01:22
rnbhiiiiiiJan 23 01:22
FurnaceBoyMinceR: yes.Jan 23 01:22
rnbhi.Jan 23 01:22
schestowitzHey, rnbJan 23 01:22
FurnaceBoyMinceR: otherwise they'd use supercomputers.Jan 23 01:22
oiaohmIe a Novice can still fail to use Erlang functions.Jan 23 01:22
rnbhi schestowitz Jan 23 01:22
FurnaceBoyMinceR: I am talking about the #1 -- for example, IBM'sJan 23 01:22
trmancoschestowitz: doesn't seem to beJan 23 01:22
schestowitztrmanco: you can buy eggsJan 23 01:22
trmancoshe is sleepingJan 23 01:22
FurnaceBoyMinceR: if the supercomputer was better, IBM would use the supercomputer :)Jan 23 01:22
schestowitzI don't know abot chicksJan 23 01:22
rnbschestowitz: i know your name is roy, now!Jan 23 01:22
schestowitzThey don't sell themJan 23 01:22
MinceRFurnaceBoy: i thought IBM's solutions were supercomputersJan 23 01:22
FurnaceBoyMinceR: afaik they use FPGAJan 23 01:22
rnbschestowitz: whats with this creepy boycott bn site?Jan 23 01:22
oiaohmFurnaceBoy: That is the difference between path finding compliers and not.  Even if the user does the wrong thing the complier undoes it.Jan 23 01:22
schestowitzMaybe you should look are farms in the suburbs...Jan 23 01:22
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: well, you can believe that.Jan 23 01:23
MinceRFurnaceBoy: this might be outdated, but last time i've heard of this they were using RS/6000-sJan 23 01:23
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: it's not even possible in theoryJan 23 01:23
FurnaceBoyMinceR: long agoJan 23 01:23
rnbschestowitz: or, that guy is watching the logs, huhJan 23 01:23
MinceR(Power CPU)Jan 23 01:23
schestowitzrnb: creepy?Jan 23 01:23
trmancoreal chicksJan 23 01:23
oiaohmIt not possiable all the time FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:23
schestowitzOhJan 23 01:23
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: i know some basic errors can be optimised away.Jan 23 01:23
trmancoI mean, the fake chicksJan 23 01:23
schestowitzSome guy who runs a sex shopJan 23 01:23
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but those are *not* the worst, or what naggum is talking about .Jan 23 01:23
schestowitzHe doesn't like BNJan 23 01:23
rnbschestowitz: yeah, forget it, no need to feed the trollJan 23 01:24
schestowitzSo he dedicated his life to attacking me and my siteJan 23 01:24
rnbschestowitz: thats why i thought it creepyJan 23 01:24
oiaohmFurnaceBoy: most of the worse speed effecting naggum was talking about are highly detectable.Jan 23 01:24
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: no, bad design can't be detected by a compiler. not even the bubble sort example. it's not what compilers do. it's what code review does. :)Jan 23 01:24
schestowitzrnb: we generally don't discuss psychopaths here. It encourages themJan 23 01:24
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: and education and experienceJan 23 01:24
FurnaceBoyrnb: Stalin exceptedJan 23 01:25
cubezzzbasically we are just crunching integersJan 23 01:25
FurnaceBoycubezzz: yep. did you find Bellard's paper?Jan 23 01:25
FurnaceBoycubezzz: recently he broke the prime recordJan 23 01:25
schestowitzrnb: I watched that film you gave me about RussiaJan 23 01:25
oiaohmFurnaceBoy: How many path inspecting compliers are there FurnaceBoy?Jan 23 01:25
cubezzzbtwJan 23 01:25
schestowitzI wouldn't wanna visit the country nowJan 23 01:25
cubezzzread 'em and weep:Jan 23 01:25
cubezzz 23 01:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 23 01:25
oiaohmFurnaceBoy:  Answer 1Jan 23 01:25
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I know that what you are asserting is impossible. only basic errors can be optimised away.Jan 23 01:25
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: design errors cannot.Jan 23 01:25
trmancowell, time to go goJan 23 01:25
trmanco:PJan 23 01:25
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: and auto-vectorising, etc, is not relevant to Naggum's thesisJan 23 01:26
rnbschestowitz: oh, by louis theroux's brother?Jan 23 01:26
trmancosee you guys laterJan 23 01:26
schestowitzDidn't know who he wasJan 23 01:26
FurnaceBoycubezzz: the shootout is useless for most practical purposes.Jan 23 01:26
schestowitztrmanco: take careJan 23 01:26
oiaohmPath inspecting is not just auto-vectorising.Jan 23 01:26
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: i am sure it's not.Jan 23 01:26
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but your claims are beyond the realm of theoretical possibility.Jan 23 01:26
trmancoschestowitz: I willJan 23 01:26
trmancothanksJan 23 01:26
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: let's agree to disagreeJan 23 01:26
schestowitzLearn French :-pJan 23 01:26
cubezzzdid you see the sort times?Jan 23 01:26
oiaohmProblem is 5 years ago yes FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:26
*FurnaceBoy should be doing other stuff anywayJan 23 01:27
FurnaceBoyoiaohm:  a novice's program cannot be converted to an expert's program.Jan 23 01:27
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: by a compiler.Jan 23 01:27
oiaohmIf the program functions correctly yes it can.  FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:27
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: you can disagree; great for the career of novices.Jan 23 01:27
cubezzzpython is close to the bottom :)Jan 23 01:27
schestowitzsnakes crawlJan 23 01:27
oiaohmFor the simple point the alterations the expert coder does have that are not what you call unpredictable FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:28
*_goblin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 23 01:28
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: lower than a snake's belly, or some suchJan 23 01:28
rnbschestowitz: did you see the part about the cops?Jan 23 01:28
*trmanco has quit ("Page closed")Jan 23 01:28
rnbschestowitz: the weird, drunken ones who detained them?Jan 23 01:28
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: magmaJan 23 01:28
schestowitzrnb: yes, scary partJan 23 01:28
schestowitzBut you see the film, so you know they'd be OKJan 23 01:28
FurnaceBoycubezzz: want me to find Bellard's paper? nice stuff about how they managed bignumsJan 23 01:28
FurnaceBoycubezzz: in the recent prime record breakJan 23 01:29
rnbschestowitz: sure, it just shows the fascist tradition in that areaJan 23 01:29
schestowitzI have friends who left RussiaJan 23 01:29
schestowitzPoland tooJan 23 01:29
schestowitzBut they came backJan 23 01:29
FurnaceBoyrnb: @pareidoliac recently had a serious brush with racist cops in Sweden. Follow him.Jan 23 01:29
rnbschestowitz: after 70+ years of actively suppressing it, they are right there to come back againJan 23 01:29
oiaohmRemember some of the fastest forms of sorting were not found by humans.  But by AI's trying combinations after combitionas FurnaceBoyJan 23 01:29
FurnaceBoyrnb: scary shitJan 23 01:29
schestowitzThere were many Polish workers here... fewer nowJan 23 01:29
schestowitzrnb: mildly depressing filmJan 23 01:29
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I now about genetic algorithms.Jan 23 01:29
FurnaceBoyknow*Jan 23 01:30
rnbthere are also bizarre nazi ex-pat communities in latin americaJan 23 01:30
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but that's not what we were discussing at all.Jan 23 01:30
schestowitzBut decreasing population is generally a good thingJan 23 01:30
FurnaceBoyrnb: famously yes.Jan 23 01:30
rnbbecause they also fled to US-supportd dictatorships thereJan 23 01:30
schestowitzFewer families will have babies after the economic meltdown anywayJan 23 01:30
FurnaceBoyexactlyJan 23 01:30
FurnaceBoy@rnbJan 23 01:30
schestowitzThere may not be another generation of Baby BoomersJan 23 01:30
oiaohmProblem is we are FurnaceBoy.  That is what Path folllowing compliers are using.Jan 23 01:30
schestowitzBUT...Jan 23 01:30
schestowitzWe have many Boomers waiting for their pensionJan 23 01:30
schestowitzSystem implostionJan 23 01:30
schestowitz*sionJan 23 01:30
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: well, good luck. C/C++ are dead ends for 98% of applications.Jan 23 01:30
schestowitzMaybe the government will just start subsidising cigarettes now /sarcasmJan 23 01:30
rnb*i* am my dad's pension :(Jan 23 01:31
schestowitzrnb: there's that tooJan 23 01:31
rnbafter he spent 34 years at republic steel, where they promised him a great pensionJan 23 01:31
*_goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 01:31
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: the interesting solution representations are elsewhereJan 23 01:31
rnbnow he gets almost noneJan 23 01:31
FurnaceBoyrnb: ouchJan 23 01:31
schestowitzrnb: mortgaging the future based on our kids and grandkidsJan 23 01:31
rnbthey lied to himJan 23 01:31
schestowitz$13tr in debt and growingJan 23 01:31
schestowitzObama went shopping with some troops in AfghanistanJan 23 01:32
rnbfkn NAFTAJan 23 01:32
schestowitzMaybe shopping for oil pipe outposts or somethingJan 23 01:32
schestowitzI'm not too familiar with itJan 23 01:32
schestowitzNovell cancelled its pension planJan 23 01:32
schestowitzAbout 6 months ago, a little lessJan 23 01:33
schestowitzWhile firing more employeesJan 23 01:33
schestowitz"Today you have pension.......... tomorrow YOU WON'T"Jan 23 01:33
schestowitzIt's the heavenly thinking IMHOJan 23 01:33
schestowitzAlways think of tomorrowJan 23 01:33
schestowitzYou'll rise to the skyJan 23 01:33
FurnaceBoyHAHAJan 23 01:33
FurnaceBoyso true.Jan 23 01:33
rnbit -was- federally guaranteedJan 23 01:33
schestowitzYou'll be a superstar like the gal on TVJan 23 01:33
schestowitzYou'll have your pension fund to go hunting and golfing........Jan 23 01:33
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: did you ever read Faludi's "Stiffed"?Jan 23 01:33
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: excellent, important bookJan 23 01:34
schestowitzAssuming you don't die from bad food firstJan 23 01:34
rnbbut it's the kind of guarantee that can change Jan 23 01:34
schestowitzOr lose you pension to Gold Man SacksJan 23 01:34
rnbwhich ... i dont think qualifies as a guaranteeJan 23 01:34
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: "Stiffed" completely dissects the "lottery" theory of american life, and how it germinatedJan 23 01:34
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: I watched soem Haiti films todayJan 23 01:34
schestowitzTurns out the French are also their lootersJan 23 01:35
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: you're a braver man than IJan 23 01:35
schestowitzSo putting the blame on one nation is plainly wrongJan 23 01:35
oiaohmFurnaceBoy: most of the 98 percent of applications you talk about still will be depending on C and C++ somewhere.Jan 23 01:35
rnbdefinitely -- never forget the evilness of West EuropeJan 23 01:35
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: sighJan 23 01:35
schestowitzThe French have no Holy Scripture on their gunsJan 23 01:35
rnbthey certainly act like they are sooo much better than the USJan 23 01:35
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: of course, in other layers. Jan 23 01:35
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I am talking about solution development.Jan 23 01:36
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: C/C++ is of little interestJan 23 01:36
schestowitzrnb: 510 years of genocides in the New ContinentJan 23 01:36
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: it's not expressive and can't beJan 23 01:36
schestowitzWith endorsement from Queen Isabel IIRCJan 23 01:36
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: it's a niche onlyJan 23 01:36
FurnaceBoycubezzz: raw speed aside, Icon is an interesting language, with bignum integers.Jan 23 01:37
FurnaceBoycubezzz: Erlang alsoJan 23 01:37
FurnaceBoycubezzz: have you heard of the Euler Project?Jan 23 01:38
rnbschestowitz: haha, did you see the story about the bible verses on the guns?Jan 23 01:38
rnbschestowitz: real classyJan 23 01:38
FurnaceBoyrnb: it had a sort of inevitability to itJan 23 01:38
FurnaceBoyrnb: can you really say you were surprised?Jan 23 01:39
FurnaceBoyrnb: I wasn't, I expected itJan 23 01:39
rnbFurnaceBoy: not at allJan 23 01:39
FurnaceBoyhehJan 23 01:39
FurnaceBoyrnb: you've seen Rumsfeld's slides?Jan 23 01:39
FurnaceBoyrnb: the picture of the soldiers at prayer is priceless.Jan 23 01:39
schestowitzrnb: yes, I saw itJan 23 01:39
schestowitzI mailed it to rms tooJan 23 01:39
FurnaceBoyrnb: presumably at prayer times they face fucking DisneyworldJan 23 01:39
rnbFurnaceBoy: slides? i dont think soJan 23 01:39
rnbFurnaceBoy: hahaJan 23 01:40
FurnaceBoyrnb: yes, the powerpoints Rummy gave Bush, kindly embellished with bible quotes and picturesJan 23 01:40
schestowitzWar and religion in the same story.... call the ambulance!Jan 23 01:40
FurnaceBoyrnb: the weird part? the story broke in GQ.Jan 23 01:40
rnbFurnaceBoy: GQ sometimes does that.. you have a url?Jan 23 01:40
FurnaceBoyrnb: this was Bush's daily briefing on the kilingJan 23 01:40
FurnaceBoyrnb: top result if you search "rumsfeld bush briefing", most likely.Jan 23 01:40
FurnaceBoyrnb: there's a slideshowJan 23 01:41
rnbi'l check it outJan 23 01:41
schestowitzThey would take no shame in itJan 23 01:41
FurnaceBoyrnb: 23 01:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: And He Shall Be Judged: Newsmakers: GQ .::. Size~: 84.75 KBJan 23 01:41
schestowitzThey like prayerJan 23 01:41
rnbthe republicrats of today make nixon look like a liberalJan 23 01:41
schestowitz(and war)Jan 23 01:41
schestowitzBut they have a policy on not showing itJan 23 01:41
FurnaceBoyrnb: yes the neocons took Nixon's sick little schtick and ran with it.Jan 23 01:41
schestowitzCause then it gets described as "crusade"Jan 23 01:41
schestowitzSo it's a PR thingJan 23 01:41
schestowitz"Do as we say, don't say what we do"Jan 23 01:42
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the story puts the complete lie to that.Jan 23 01:42
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: !*&(#$^#&$^#@*&^$@#*&$%@*&%$*&$@Jan 23 01:42
*FurnaceBoy implodes with rageJan 23 01:42
schestowitzThere was the fiasco with x-ian bible being promoted by US troops in mideatJan 23 01:42
schestowitz*eastJan 23 01:42
schestowitzrnb: vis-a-vis nixon 23 01:43
schestowitz 23 01:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Linux Foundation: Microsoft's Talking Smack on Windows Mobile - - Business Technology Leadership .::. Size~: 79.88 KBJan 23 01:43
schestowitz 23 01:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Run Linux In EXT3 Rather Than EXT4 For Better Performance | Lifehacker Australia .::. Size~: 24.03 KBJan 23 01:44
rnbschestowitz: certainly.. the "crazy tyrant" theory of warJan 23 01:44
rnbschestowitz: one of kissingr's many war crimesJan 23 01:44
rnbfkn e keyJan 23 01:44
schestowitzrnb: yes, I heard itJan 23 01:44
schestowitzBush reinstated itJan 23 01:44
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: i guess joanwalsh ain't gonna answer me :)Jan 23 01:44
schestowitzFrom my readings the theory is like that of the mafiaJan 23 01:45
schestowitzTo assure you keep "respect" and awe, you must act irrationally sometimesJan 23 01:45
schestowitzLike whipping a producer on the backJan 23 01:46
schestowitzrnb: you know what the CIA called the Afghanistanis when they use them against the Soviets? "The Crazies"Jan 23 01:46
schestowitzThey called the Moujahadin [spelling] the "crazies"Jan 23 01:46
schestowitzIt was /THEIR/ craziesJan 23 01:46
schestowitz[01:44] <rnb> schestowitz: certainly.. the "crazy tyrant" theory of warJan 23 01:47
rnbi highly recommend this movie, if you havent seen it:Jan 23 01:47
rnb 23 01:47
rnbTerrorism: Made in the USAJan 23 01:47
schestowitzUntil those "crazies" funded the landing of planes on WTCJan 23 01:47
rnbexcellent detail, and some good friends made that filmJan 23 01:47
schestowitzrnb: you have roots in South America?Jan 23 01:48
schestowitzI can't do subtitlesJan 23 01:48
schestowitzI watch stuff while working on other stuffJan 23 01:48
rnbschestowitz: mm, i've worked on/off in latin america for 14 years or soJan 23 01:48
rnbschestowitz: my wife is from brazilJan 23 01:49
schestowitzI cannot edit text and read captionsJan 23 01:49
*FurnaceBoy ( has left #boycottnovell ("fun.")Jan 23 01:49
rnbschestowitz: too bad, it's a great documentary, and timely (the people it's about are in the news right now)Jan 23 01:49
schestowitzNeed to be more vocal and little importance on the visual side except staresJan 23 01:49
schestowitzrnb: 23 01:51
rnbschestowitz: seen it, actually! ;)Jan 23 01:52
rnbschestowitz: i've provided tech support for a haiti solidarity group for a few years nowJan 23 01:52
schestowitzI've seen many moreJan 23 01:52
schestowitzJust for background basically..Jan 23 01:53
rnbschestowitz: it's based here in SFJan 23 01:53
schestowitzMy cousin says Haitians were hated in her schoolJan 23 01:53
schestowitzI'll always remember thatJan 23 01:53
rnbwhere was her school?Jan 23 01:53
schestowitzFloridaJan 23 01:53
schestowitzMiamiJan 23 01:53
schestowitzOr parents both immigrated from CubaJan 23 01:54
rnb-> 23 01:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Haiti Solidarity : Index .::. Size~: 7.85 KBJan 23 01:54
rnboh, sure, miami is the right-wing terrorist capital of latin americaJan 23 01:55
schestowitzTHey house the guy who bombed planes or tried toJan 23 01:55
rnbthey literally have terrorist training camps there to train fightersJan 23 01:55
rnbluis posada carrilesJan 23 01:55
rnbhe did do itJan 23 01:55
schestowitzWhoever..Jan 23 01:55
schestowitzrnb: but to the "Bad Guys"Jan 23 01:55
rnband he also carried out a series of bombings of hotels in havana in the late 90s and bragged to the press about itJan 23 01:56
rnbhe's currently being sheltered in the US, who refuses to extradite him to venezuela, where he was in prison until he "escaped"Jan 23 01:56
rnbeven though the US has an extradition treaty with venezuelaJan 23 01:56
schestowitz> On Wednesday, Apple's having a launch at San Francisco'sJan 23 01:56
schestowitz> Yerba Buena Center for the Arts for what everyone isJan 23 01:56
schestowitz> calling the iSlate or iPad -- a tablet computer based onJan 23 01:56
schestowitz> the iPhone. The company who once announced to the worldJan 23 01:57
schestowitz> that they opposed DRM on music has been pushing DRM inJan 23 01:57
schestowitz> every other area of their business -- and we're here toJan 23 01:57
schestowitz> tell them enough is enough. Come help create the counterJan 23 01:57
schestowitz> story in the media -- take photos, talk to the press,Jan 23 01:57
schestowitz> and have fun with a little bit of theater to show thatJan 23 01:57
schestowitz> Apple is not the force for creative expression theyJan 23 01:57
rnbit was Air Cubana Flight 455Jan 23 01:57
schestowitz> claim to be.Jan 23 01:57
rnbdinner timeJan 23 01:57
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Right, a little relaxing music before bed....great stuff.... 23 02:22
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DaemonFCthese speakers are awesomeJan 23 02:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @guardianeco #Kraft pledges to honour #Cadbury's #Fairtrade sourcing commitments // yehright + Fairtrade no panaceaJan 23 03:00
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DaemonFCDennis Kucinich wants to establish the Ministry of Peace and the NightWatchJan 23 04:25
DaemonFC:PJan 23 04:25
DaemonFC 23 04:26
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@alykhansatchu Blix said he didn't think Blair acted in conscious bad faith. Can that be sustained any more? // No.Jan 23 04:37
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@johnderosa When I hear "Bridge over Troubled Water" Simon &Garfunkel, I think: I *ought* to like it. But I don't // funny, i feel the sameJan 23 04:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@potikosi Amazon Deal on all Sarah #Palin books %50 off 18 // boy, did you get the wrong guyJan 23 04:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@triumph68 game theory Q: how 2 convince othr side you're so crazy you're willing 2 bring ceiling dwn on evrybdy. // show #GOP membershipJan 23 04:42
DaemonFCGamestop is closing 400 stores :)Jan 23 04:45
DaemonFCseems like all the stores where people waste money are closing Jan 23 04:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "I didn't have a problem in the UAE requiring a lawyer until you decided to start spamming me. Will you stop?"Jan 23 05:05
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DaemonFCmore security bugs in IEJan 23 05:14
DaemonFC"Research firm Core Security Technologies said on  Friday that it discovered another set of vulnerabilities in Internet  Explorer that hackers can link together and exploit, to remotely access  all of the data on a personal computer."Jan 23 05:14
EruaranlolJan 23 05:49
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tessier__It'll never end.Jan 23 07:36
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Switching to #Linux is no harder than switching to OS X" 23 09:55
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Coverage from Ending of #LCA 2010 ( 23 09:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: - Day Four | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 35.79 KBJan 23 09:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Advogato: Blog for robertc .::. Size~: 42.49 KBJan 23 09:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop #GNU #Linux Initiative Gets Millions in New Investment 23 09:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 'Microsoft-free' virtual desktop startup gets $4m funding - .::. Size~: 118.64 KBJan 23 09:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Examples of #Windows Drawbacks That Make #GNU #Linux the Better Choice 23 10:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: How much is that software in the Windows? «  dwasifar's daily gripe .::. Size~: 75.16 KBJan 23 10:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 3 New Audiocasts About GNU/Linux: TLLTS, Linux Outlaws, LinuxCrazy 23 10:02
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Linux (Kernel Space) RC, qemu-kvm-0.12, Good Features Coming 23 10:04
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chips_B_Malroyall asleep across the pond ?Jan 23 10:06
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #NVIDIA and #ATI Additions to #Linux #Graphics Stack 23 10:06
chips_B_Malroyat least the bot workingJan 23 10:06
chips_B_Malroythanks to tesslerJan 23 10:07
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KOffice More Than Just a Desktop Application #qtJan 23 10:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNOME Targets More Women, New Activity Journal Released 23 10:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PuppyLinux Versus Windows Vista, List of "Top" Distros Created 23 10:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Pardus #Linux 2009.01 Reviewed, Looks Great 23 10:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #Slackware , Guide for Installing Version 13 23 10:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Next #Ubuntu to Come with Many Wallpapers 23 10:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu Electronics Remix 9.10 Introduced 23 10:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxMint 8 #KDE Now in Release Candidate Stage 23 10:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mobile #Linux (Android) Grows Extremely Fast 23 10:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Sub-notebooks to Run #Android or #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 23 10:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OLPC Comes to #Haiti 23 10:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #FreeSoftware Projects: #Pivot (for RIA) Enters Apache 23 10:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ReactOS Benefits from #Wine #FreeSoftware Project 23 10:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Oracle Adds New Printing User Interface 23 10:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Early Impression of #Mozilla #Firefox 3.6 Very Positive 23 10:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Oracle Messing About on the Side 23 10:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Release of #Nmap , #GCC 4.5 Status Report 23 10:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SanFrancisco Represents Win for #FreeSoftware in #Government 23 10:45
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free #CMS Software Gets Open Video, #WordPress Foundation is Born 23 10:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Uses #FreeSoftware , #CreativeCommons Attribution 3.0 Licence 23 11:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #GNU #Linux Distributions for the Desktop 23 11:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Suffer #Copyright Setbacks, Use Propaganda 23 11:04
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phIRCe-BNcHello World!Jan 23 11:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz Thanks for the positive respond on Ubuntu in COLA Roy. I see it as a challenge. Love challenges.Jan 23 11:17
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EruaranThat's betterJan 23 11:33
EruaranI got a reply from SagteJan 23 11:33
Eruaran*SageJan 23 11:33
EruaranVisionless and sadJan 23 11:33
EruaranAfter being told they've lost a customer they still repeated their Windows-only mantraJan 23 11:34
EruaranNo regard is given to helping the customerJan 23 11:34
oiaohmIt is sadly a game of numbers EruaranJan 23 11:35
EruaranThey only support what they consider to be popular (don't take any vision or forsight to do that)... Even though they lost a customer to a competitor who offered a better solutionJan 23 11:35
oiaohmLot of these companies will also stupid claim linux is only 1 percent so they don't need to support it.Jan 23 11:36
Eruaranoiaohm: Indeed, though I can see their numbers decliningJan 23 11:36
EruaranActually their previous claim was more stupid than thatJan 23 11:36
EruaranThey claim Linux has caused them issues in the past (they've never made any software for Linux)Jan 23 11:37
oiaohmNot exactly true.Jan 23 11:37
oiaohmOne of the companys that merged into Sage did make Linux software.Jan 23 11:38
EruaranI have gotten the impression from them that their view of Linux is much like Microsoft's, its an "infestation"Jan 23 11:38
oiaohmSo no a product with a Sage name no it.Jan 23 11:38
EruaranSorry, I'm talking about accounting softwareJan 23 11:38
oiaohmno/notJan 23 11:38
oiaohmSame EruaranJan 23 11:38
EruaranTheir core softwareJan 23 11:38
EruaranThey told us that if you have a Linux server they wont support their own softwareJan 23 11:38
oiaohmAt one stage they bought out a competor.  EruaranJan 23 11:38
EruaranI don't see them doing that againJan 23 11:39
EruaranTheJan 23 11:39
EruaranThey're too backwardJan 23 11:39
oiaohmDon't worry I have seen worse.Jan 23 11:39
Eruaranwell, they lost a good customer anywayJan 23 11:39
oiaohmI have seen companies that thinking coding in .net magically means it will work under LinuxJan 23 11:40
oiaohmAnd even promises it to customer.Jan 23 11:40
Eruaranwhat theJan 23 11:40
Eruaranserious ?Jan 23 11:40
oiaohmseriousJan 23 11:40
oiaohmAt least Sage is still in the region of somewhat sane.Jan 23 11:40
Eruaranthere are no words...Jan 23 11:40
EruaranI must say, I rather like pacmanJan 23 11:41
oiaohmJust be thankful Sage is truthful and up front about there support.Jan 23 11:41
oiaohmThere is nothing worse than a lieing supplier.Jan 23 11:42
Eruaran(ArchLinux pacman... not the little yellow gobbler)Jan 23 11:42
EruaranindeedJan 23 11:42
oiaohmThere are all levels of bad companies out there.Jan 23 11:42
oiaohmThe repeated liers ie MS class and releated.Jan 23 11:42
oiaohmThe head in sand people ie the must run X or else class.Jan 23 11:43
oiaohmAnd the pure pack of idiot companies that getting a correct answer is basically impossiable.  EruaranJan 23 11:43
oiaohmyet some how all of them some how stay in businessJan 23 11:44
Eruaran:/Jan 23 11:44
Eruaranmakes you wonder...Jan 23 11:45
oiaohmAfter all my years I just have the 4 files.Jan 23 11:45
oiaohmfor suppliers.Jan 23 11:45
oiaohmIe those three cats plus one to use.Jan 23 11:45
oiaohmLonger you are in software aquirement the larger those files will become.  EruaranJan 23 11:46
EruaranmmmJan 23 11:47
oiaohmI really wish I could say that what Sage is doing is strange but in truth its not EruaranJan 23 11:51
EruaranindeedJan 23 11:51
oiaohmI remember in the days Unix was dominate in the server world same kind of bias's were going on.Jan 23 11:51
oiaohmLike software for HP UX or AIX only.Jan 23 11:51
oiaohmNothing changed humans are humans.  Only thing that changed was the name of the OS.Jan 23 11:52
Eruaranheh, many companies didn't even change HP's default passwordsJan 23 11:52
oiaohmStill happens today EruaranJan 23 11:52
oiaohmHumans are very much a constant.Jan 23 11:53
EruaransihgJan 23 11:53
Eruaran*sighJan 23 11:53
EruaranWhat we need are computers that electrocute people for doing dumb thingsJan 23 11:53
oiaohmFirst thing to be able to live with it without stress is just accept humans are humans.Jan 23 11:54
EruaranAn anti-dumb mechanismJan 23 11:54
oiaohmSo being dumb is normal.Jan 23 11:54
EruaranI don't really stress about itJan 23 11:54
EruaranI do marvel thoughJan 23 11:54
oiaohmSecond thing is accepting that you are not responable for other peoples actions.Jan 23 11:54
oiaohmIf they don't do the right thing its there fault.Jan 23 11:55
EruaranIndeedJan 23 11:55
oiaohmThe first one is simple.  The second is a lot harder for a lot of people to get.Jan 23 11:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Result! Got three days off work! Get Openbytes jobs for "her indoors", watch time off is organized.Jan 23 12:04
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Eruaranhmm ff daily is at 3.6.1preJan 23 12:25
Eruaranoh wellJan 23 12:25
Eruaranthat'll do :pJan 23 12:25
schestowitzppa?Jan 23 12:34
Eruaran 23 12:35
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] India to setup Unlimited police spying on communications (news from Nov 09) #privacyJan 23 12:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: India to set up automatic monitoring of communications - privacy - Good Gear Guide .::. Size~: 118.02 KBJan 23 12:35
schestowitz 23 12:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Student Discovers New Pulsar .::. Size~: 12.88 KBJan 23 12:35
schestowitzCool!Jan 23 12:35
_goblin3.6.1? - Ive never upgraded since 3.5.7Jan 23 12:37
schestowitz 23 12:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 'Drastic' Digg overhaul could 'shock' users, says Kevin Rose - Telegraph .::. Size~: 58.34 KBJan 23 12:38
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: The internet  as it was seen  in 1995 by Clifford Stoll. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 99.54 KBJan 23 12:39
oiaohm  Not numbers MS will be likingJan 23 12:42
EruaranTheir WinMo guy is flining the FUD and pretending there's a "buzz" over WinMo7... (forgot to take his medication)Jan 23 12:47
oiaohmiphone guys are doing the same.Jan 23 12:51
oiaohmThey don't want to see that android is selling threw many different suppliers.Jan 23 12:52
EruaranI wonder how many ENIAC's it would take to play Doom... ;)Jan 23 12:53
EruaranLets not think about itJan 23 12:54
oiaohmI would be someone did tic tac toe on it at some point EruaranJan 23 12:58
Eruaranyes, I'm sure someone would haveJan 23 13:00
oiaohmNow I don't think ENIAC even have the interfaces to do text based doom.Jan 23 13:02
oiaohmYes there is a insane text based version out there.Jan 23 13:02
oiaohmHalf the battle is seeing the person you are shooting at.Jan 23 13:02
EruaranSounds like classic sci-fi horror ;)Jan 23 13:03
oiaohm  I have personally had one of the dead boards out of that one in my hands.Jan 23 13:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: CSIRAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 40.55 KBJan 23 13:05
EruarancoolJan 23 13:06
oiaohmCSIRAC used 30 kilowatts of power in operation << The thing will never be turned back on.Jan 23 13:08
Eruaran:OJan 23 13:08
oiaohmThere is a emulator for it.Jan 23 13:09
oiaohmAnd even copies of lots of the old programs.Jan 23 13:09
oiaohmNote CSIRAC had a speaker to play music EruaranJan 23 13:11
EruaranperfectJan 23 13:12
oiaohm 23 13:13
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oiaohmYes first pulse operated speaker that become the pc speaker.Jan 23 13:13
oiaohmYes warped of warped.Jan 23 13:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] In my experience Compaq are godawful machines. Never had a good experience. Terrible.Jan 23 13:15
schestowitzEruaran: 23 13:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Install Firefox 3.6 in Ubuntu the Super Easy Way using Ubuntuzilla | Tech Drive .::. Size~: 79.76 KBJan 23 13:17
EruaranThat second one, is a bit scaryJan 23 13:18
schestowitzEt tu, Carla? Editor's Note: What is User-friendly, Really? < >Jan 23 13:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Today - Editor's Note: What is User-friendly, Really? .::. Size~: 89.04 KBJan 23 13:21
schestowitzI don't understand.... all the option I had before are still thereJan 23 13:21
cubezzzhow can they be sure it's the only 1st generation computer still functioning?Jan 23 13:21
schestowitzMaybe gwenview is the exceptionJan 23 13:21
Eruaranthx schestowitzJan 23 13:21
oiaohmMost of the first generation were disasmabled cubezzzJan 23 13:22
oiaohmAnd basically recycled.Jan 23 13:22
cubezzzsorry, it says surviving Jan 23 13:23
cubezzzI guess it can't function thenJan 23 13:23
oiaohmIt could.Jan 23 13:24
oiaohmBut lots and lots of repair would would have to be done.Jan 23 13:24
cubezzzso then none of the other ones exist at all?Jan 23 13:24
oiaohmFew fragements of the others exist.Jan 23 13:24
oiaohmEven CSIRAC is not 100 percent orginal either.Jan 23 13:24
cubezzzI wouldn't mind owning a Commodore PET or a KIM-1Jan 23 13:25
oiaohmThere is about half a ton of spares that had not been used or had been used for it.Jan 23 13:25
cubezzzthose 1st generation monsters are just too bigJan 23 13:25
oiaohmThat is a major reason most don't exist.Jan 23 13:25
cubezzzso what is the oldest computer still functioning?Jan 23 13:26
oiaohmAustralia was one of the few places where it was simple just to build a new shed and forget about it.Jan 23 13:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Monster headache. 2xCo-dydromal and sleep for me #fbJan 23 13:26
oiaohmOldest computer still functioning is most likely in parks radio observitry.Jan 23 13:26
cubezzzI'm sure there must be some PDPs aroundJan 23 13:27
oiaohmIts a analog computer for cleaning up signals.Jan 23 13:27
oiaohmStill works great.Jan 23 13:27
cubezzzok, I'll specify digital Jan 23 13:28
oiaohmNow if you are looking for digtail.  I really don't have a clue where to look.Jan 23 13:28
oiaohmMost of the old digitals get shutdown.Jan 23 13:28
cubezzzthe first mini comupter maybe?Jan 23 13:29
oiaohmMostly because they are power hungry.Jan 23 13:29
oiaohmThe first of the mini computers still run.Jan 23 13:29
cubezzzcheck this out, it's just a part of ENIACJan 23 13:29
cubezzz 23 13:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 23 13:29
cubezzzah interestingJan 23 13:30
oiaohm  << The other first Australian computer.Jan 23 13:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SILLIAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.68 KBJan 23 13:30
oiaohmIts got cut to bits.Jan 23 13:30
oiaohmDue to being in a city  and it had to make way.Jan 23 13:30
cubezzzthey seem to call minis "3rd generation"Jan 23 13:31
cubezzzI wonder what 2nd gen means thenJan 23 13:31
rnbhelloJan 23 13:32
cubezzzhello :)Jan 23 13:32
EruaranI'd like one of the original Amiga's that had the creators signitures on the chassis and the paw print.Jan 23 13:32
oiaohmMost of the 2nd gen got cut up and the end of world war 2.  cubezzzJan 23 13:32
cubezzzah, Amiga 1000 should be no problem to getJan 23 13:32
oiaohm2nd gen is the transistor age cubezzzJan 23 13:33
oiaohm3nd gen is silcon chips cubezzzJan 23 13:33
cubezzzthis site says "Second Generation Computers (1954 -1959)"Jan 23 13:34
cubezzzso what generation are we on now?Jan 23 13:34
cubezzz5th generation I thinkJan 23 13:34
oiaohmTechincally still thridJan 23 13:35
oiaohmWe are still using silcon.Jan 23 13:35
oiaohmUntil we change of that generations don't change.Jan 23 13:35
Eruarannot pure siliconJan 23 13:35
Eruaranand it wont be long before that changesJan 23 13:36
Eruarancarbon processors are already workingJan 23 13:36
oiaohmScary part is we could see the return to gears.Jan 23 13:37
oiaohmie nano gears.Jan 23 13:37
cubezzzI heard something about diamond processors or cpu Jan 23 13:38
oiaohmThere are such things as diamond heat sinks for cpu's.Jan 23 13:38
cubezzzI guess that's carbon :)Jan 23 13:38
oiaohmOf course only used in mil grade stuff.Jan 23 13:39
cubezzzhoarding by worldwide diamond conglomerate De Beers makes diamond far too expensive to waste on mere CPUs.Jan 23 13:39
oiaohmIts artifical diamondJan 23 13:40
oiaohmHow else are you going to have diamonds the right shape for the cpu silcon.Jan 23 13:40
Eruarancarbon processors that are literally a film of carbon have been demonstrated working.. early days but they would multiply power dramaticallyJan 23 13:42
cubezzzThird Generation (Discrete transistors and SSI, MSI, LSI Integrated circuits)Jan 23 13:50
cubezzzFourth Generation (VLSI integrated circuits)Jan 23 13:50
cubezzzaccording to wikipedia Jan 23 13:50
cubezzzso differing opinions thereJan 23 13:50
cubezzzalso talk about the First Generation (Mechanical/Electromechanical)Jan 23 13:51
cubezzzthen call vaccuum tube computers 2nd genJan 23 13:51
oiaohmVLSI is very questionable if it should be called a generation on its own.Jan 23 13:52
Eruaranyears ago IBM were allegedly experimenting with storing data in crystalsJan 23 13:52
oiaohmEruaran: working prototypes of that exist.Jan 23 13:53
oiaohmProblem is data staying in the crystal is a major failure.Jan 23 13:53
EruaranWhat happens ?Jan 23 13:53
oiaohmIBM can make crystals with non changing data.Jan 23 13:55
oiaohmWritable is basically impossiable.Jan 23 13:55
oiaohmall methods found for after construction writing basically risked cracking the crystal.Jan 23 13:56
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oiaohmWith the risk of cracking increasing each write.Jan 23 13:56
oiaohmThen having vibration and other things reset the data in the crystal as well if it was writable EruaranJan 23 13:57
oiaohmBasically if it was possiable for it to screw up it would.Jan 23 13:57
EruaranhmmJan 23 13:57
Eruaranah wellJan 23 13:58
EruaranIf you don't try you don't knowJan 23 13:58
oiaohmOne day the issues of crystals might be solved.Jan 23 13:59
cubezzzWindows Crsytal Edition, finally a version of windows that can't get a virus :)Jan 23 13:59
Eruaranmaybe you'd have to grow a crystal with a particular type of structureJan 23 14:00
oiaohmMajor problems is most crystals are designed to keep a fixed state.Jan 23 14:01
oiaohmIt write data you need something that will tolerate a changing state.Jan 23 14:02
rnbwhats new?Jan 23 14:02
Eruarana superconducting crystal ?Jan 23 14:02
MinceRcrystal-based goa'uld technologyJan 23 14:05
rnbi dont know much about that :(Jan 23 14:05
rnbcorrection: damn near anything about thatJan 23 14:05
Eruaranme neitherJan 23 14:06
EruaranI read an article in like 2003 or somethingJan 23 14:06
rnbare you all foss advocates?Jan 23 14:06
MinceRi don't even know about conducting crystalsJan 23 14:06
*MinceR isJan 23 14:06
rnbi think the most effective thing we could do in the US is a large-scale campaign to force local, state and federal governments to migrate to free softwareJan 23 14:07
rnbactually, US/CanadaJan 23 14:07
rnbinteresting topic to talk about, or no?Jan 23 14:07
MinceRhow can you force them? new laws?Jan 23 14:08
EruaranAlien weaponry ?Jan 23 14:08
oiaohmrnb: I am in Australia so cannot be really that much help.   Our goverment in places is worse than yours.  Like having to use windows to do tax returns.Jan 23 14:09
rnbMinceR: well, we theoretically live in a representative democracyJan 23 14:09
rnbMinceR: it is our right to demand that our taxpayer dollars are used most efficientlyJan 23 14:09
oiaohmMac is not even a option.Jan 23 14:10
rnbMinceR: especially now, with this climate against corporate corruptionJan 23 14:10
rnbthere are excellent case examples in countries of similar size to the US/CanadaJan 23 14:10
rnbin particular, brazilJan 23 14:10
rnbbut especially on the local level, there could be victoriesJan 23 14:10
rnbi think san francisco is a natural fit for such a campaign (and it happens to be where i live, and i and others have tested the waters in the past)Jan 23 14:11
rnbyou could quantify how much money is wastedJan 23 14:11
MinceRalien weaponry is more likely to work :>Jan 23 14:12
rnbyeah ... the hardest part of my idea is convincing foss advocates to go for my plan :)Jan 23 14:12
MinceRi wish you successJan 23 14:12
rnbi guess i need to just get a case success and then people would be more receptiveJan 23 14:12
EruaranYou may need to look to  EuropeJan 23 14:13
EruaranFor examplesJan 23 14:13
rnbin san francisco, a city official basically told me: with free software, who will take me out to fancy dinners?Jan 23 14:13
rnbwho will pay for me to attend fancy seminars in beautiful tourist locations?Jan 23 14:14
EruaranThat's the kind of thing you expose in the mediaJan 23 14:14
rnbi tried; no one caredJan 23 14:14
oiaohmrnb Linux confs have nice ships.Jan 23 14:14
oiaohmAnd support companies for Linux still can do the fancy dinners at times.Jan 23 14:14
rnbi spoke at GOSCON about the latin american example, which is fantasticJan 23 14:14
rnbbut GOSCON was dismal and disappointingJan 23 14:14
rnbi think the most powerful government official there was a county auditor from nowhereland, utah (literally)Jan 23 14:15
rnba friend of mine became a high school teacher where she & i went to high school together, in ohioJan 23 14:16
rnbi went to see their computer lab recently.. filled with Windows 98 machines that ran so slow, because they were filled with spyware and god knows what elseJan 23 14:17
EruaranI have a friend who's wife is a teacherJan 23 14:17
Diablo-D3I once thought about boning a teacherJan 23 14:17
rnbthat was after returning from brazil, where there are numerous state-of-the-art, free community computer labsJan 23 14:17
rnball running free softwareJan 23 14:17
EruaranShe wanted to use her own notebook (which runs Ubuntu or Kubuntu I'm pretty sure) on the school's networkJan 23 14:17
rnbgiving students the opportunity to study kernels and operating systems and programming and so onJan 23 14:18
EruaranThey told her if she did she wouldn't have a job any moreJan 23 14:18
Diablo-D3Eruaran: she should haveq uitJan 23 14:18
Diablo-D3I wouldnt work for a school district with shit that backwardsJan 23 14:18
rnbEruaran: that seems kind of harsh, although many schools/companies have that IT policyJan 23 14:18
oiaohmSome of the policy issues come from the fact policies are writen for windows.Jan 23 14:19
Diablo-D3in fact, I'd also organize the parents of the students to sueJan 23 14:19
EruaranThey will only let you use what they approve ofJan 23 14:19
oiaohmLike requirement for realtime scanning.Jan 23 14:19
Diablo-D3any student who doesnt know linux out of school has no futureJan 23 14:19
rnbthe policy issues -can- make sense, given the resources of the organizationJan 23 14:19
EruaranThe education system in Australia is deeply corruptJan 23 14:19
EruaranAnd it doesn't help that those running school networks are usually dronesJan 23 14:19
rnbas an IT person, it's hard enough to support a standardized system where all employees get company-issed laptops with standard OS/etc Jan 23 14:20
rnbfor backups, groupware, etcJan 23 14:20
Diablo-D3rnb: its very easy when you have a manditory linux policyJan 23 14:20
rnbthat policy doesnt bother me so much ... but it should be foss on there :)Jan 23 14:20
Diablo-D3and I dont care what people use for their personal machines, you know why?Jan 23 14:21
cubezzzI hear schools are making students use Microsoft Office Jan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3no personal machines get plugged inJan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3period.Jan 23 14:21
oiaohmCisco systems these days internally don't care about the desktop machines.Jan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3if I have to use ethernet encryption, so be itJan 23 14:21
rnbDiablo-D3: right, thats the policyJan 23 14:21
oiaohmThere complete core company software is web based.Jan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3rnb: I doubt itJan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3they cant enforce itJan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3windows afiak does not support ethernet encryptionJan 23 14:21
Diablo-D3(literally, the jacks will not function at all if you dont authenticate)Jan 23 14:22
rnbDiablo-D3: well, no they cant enforce it, but you know what i mean? a company will give you a laptop w/standard config and then say you must use this for work-related stuffJan 23 14:22
Diablo-D3nowJan 23 14:22
Diablo-D3if someone has a laptop with wimaxJan 23 14:22
Diablo-D3I dont careJan 23 14:22
EruaranStudents in many schools are not even allowed to use their own choice of antivirus - they must BUY what the school allegedly approvesJan 23 14:22
Diablo-D3its not on my networkJan 23 14:22
Diablo-D3Eruaran: ahh, then I wouldnt install oneJan 23 14:22
Diablo-D3antiviruses are the leading killer of windows installsJan 23 14:22
Eruaranthen they wont let you use the networkJan 23 14:23
rnbcubezzz: it's true, and many vocational programs are based around Windows.. so students learn Word to become administrativ assistants, or Excel to even further improve their pay grade, etcJan 23 14:23
Diablo-D3then they dont get my tax dollarsJan 23 14:23
Diablo-D3and I make a very large stink about it in the local newspapersJan 23 14:23
Diablo-D3and then I also slashdot the newspaperJan 23 14:23
Eruaranthats how bad it is here Jan 23 14:23
rnbcubezzz: that is a tough argument to make, for FOSS advocatesJan 23 14:23
Diablo-D3rule #1: never make me have to win, I will ruin youJan 23 14:23
rnbcubezzz: because the fact is ... like in ohio ... it -is- useful for kids to learn Word, or Excel, or etcJan 23 14:23
rnbcubezzz: it -does- open up job opportunitiesJan 23 14:24
Diablo-D3rnb: no its notJan 23 14:24
Diablo-D3no it doesntJan 23 14:24
rnbof course it doesJan 23 14:24
cubezzzwhy Ohio?Jan 23 14:24
Diablo-D3less and less companies use out of date softwareJan 23 14:24
rnbcubezzz: well, because thats where i'm from and it's what i know :)Jan 23 14:24
Diablo-D3they cant afford to pay for something 10 years old when they can get something 0 years old for freeJan 23 14:24
Diablo-D3companies cant afford, in literal dollars, to be behindJan 23 14:24
cubezzzis NCR still in Dayton?Jan 23 14:24
Diablo-D3I wont work for a company who relies on microsoft products due to job security reasonsJan 23 14:24
rnbDiablo-D3: i would say 95% of companies in northeast ohio use Microsoft Office, and admin assistants need to know office, excel, etcJan 23 14:25
rnbDiablo-D3: it -is- the skill set required to get a job like that and be good at itJan 23 14:25
oiaohmYou know what is funny rnbJan 23 14:25
Diablo-D3rnb: then northeast ohio is going to be bankrupt.Jan 23 14:25
Diablo-D3rnb: I'd move before it collapses.Jan 23 14:25
rnbDiablo-D3: you arent listening.Jan 23 14:25
Diablo-D3No, you arent listeningJan 23 14:25
Diablo-D3using microsoft products == company deathJan 23 14:25
oiaohmWhen I went threw school I had to learn word perfect and 1 2 3 something for being a admin assistant rnbJan 23 14:25
rnbDiablo-D3: i am from ohio, i've lived in san francisco for 13 years or soJan 23 14:25
Diablo-D3why would you want to work for a company thats already dead?Jan 23 14:25
oiaohmNow where are they used rnbJan 23 14:26
Diablo-D3rnb: answer that questionJan 23 14:26
rnbDiablo-D3: using microsoft products != company death, that's absurdJan 23 14:26
oiaohmMost important thing is not learning the application rnb its learning the thoery behind it.Jan 23 14:26
Diablo-D3paying for out of date broken software == company death, doubly so when you can get up to date working software for freeJan 23 14:26
Diablo-D3office is out of date. period.Jan 23 14:26
Diablo-D3its old hat.Jan 23 14:26
cubezzzthe problem for me is that students are told to use a specific version of Microsoft Office and they can't use OOJan 23 14:26
rnbDiablo-D3: countless doctor/dentist offices, manufacturing companies, hell, video rental stores, telemarketing companies, etc... they use WindowsJan 23 14:26
oiaohmrnb: using microsoft productions = death of company.   During the sep 11 disaster.  Jan 23 14:27
rnbDiablo-D3: who exactly do you think is Microsoft's enormous customer base?Jan 23 14:27
Diablo-D3rnb: no oneJan 23 14:27
Diablo-D3they dont have one.Jan 23 14:27
rnbumJan 23 14:27
oiaohmDue to not being able to aford to set back up rnbJan 23 14:27
EruaranTake out a full page ad in the paperJan 23 14:27
cubezzzthe OEMs? :)Jan 23 14:27
Diablo-D3rnb: btw, most companies are moving to web browser based servicesJan 23 14:27
Diablo-D3rnb: their install of windows is just to run firefoxJan 23 14:27
Diablo-D3they dont countJan 23 14:27
rnbDiablo-D3: Microsoft does not have a customer base, this is your point?Jan 23 14:27
rnbDiablo-D3: you stand by that assertion?Jan 23 14:28
Diablo-D3rnb: microsoft doesnt have one beyond trying to do the microsoft tax through dell, etcJan 23 14:28
cubezzzit's usually forced on peopleJan 23 14:28
Diablo-D3people buy a computer and throw windows outJan 23 14:28
cubezzzthat's what I think he meansJan 23 14:28
Diablo-D3microsoft calls it a sale, I call it theft.Jan 23 14:28
rnbanyway, in the real world, many vocational programs teach people entering the work force Word, Excel, etc so they can get "office jobs" rather than "McJobs"Jan 23 14:28
cubezzzlook, you can still work without MicrosoftJan 23 14:28
Diablo-D3rnb: there are very little office jobs leftJan 23 14:28
cubezzzdon't say you can'tJan 23 14:28
Diablo-D3many industries are moving to web browser based frontends to their toolsJan 23 14:29
Diablo-D3the app they're using isnt even running locallyJan 23 14:29
rnbDiablo-D3: you lost me at "Microsoft has no customer base"Jan 23 14:29
Diablo-D3rnb: you lost me at "Im from ohio, I think my opinion means something"Jan 23 14:29
rnbDiablo-D3: cleverJan 23 14:29
MinceR:>Jan 23 14:29
Diablo-D3From an investor standpoint, Microsoft is loosing fake customers so fast if I had stock in them I would have sold it 2 years agoJan 23 14:30
rnbmeanwhile, in the real world, vocational programs in most high schools teach kids Windows-based skillsJan 23 14:30
cubezzztech stocks are down actuallyJan 23 14:30
rnbso that they can get better jobsJan 23 14:30
EruaranI told a former employer to sell his shares in Microsoft nearly 3 years ago.Jan 23 14:30
Diablo-D3rnb: but how can they use their windows skills in the real world?Jan 23 14:30
rnbi dont think that foss advocates will get very far making an argument against thatJan 23 14:30
Diablo-D3Linux is everywhere.Jan 23 14:31
oiaohmSo was me learning apple in high school worth anything?  rnbJan 23 14:31
cubezzzLinux _is_ everywhereJan 23 14:31
cubezzzit really isJan 23 14:31
oiaohmRemember rnb I am old enough to been in the OS changes.Jan 23 14:31
cubezzzyeah I had punch cards :)Jan 23 14:31
oiaohmSo I learnt a lot of crap that is no longer used anywhere.Jan 23 14:31
cubezzzplus Commodore PET :)Jan 23 14:31
Diablo-D3OSX secured the mass media peopleJan 23 14:31
Diablo-D3desktop publishing, photography, movie making, music making, etc, all MacsJan 23 14:31
oiaohmSame thing will happen again rnbJan 23 14:31
Diablo-D3no windows skills thereJan 23 14:32
cubezzzah, NCR moved out of DaytonJan 23 14:32
oiaohmDepends on the movie making.Jan 23 14:32
cubezzzyeah it's a moving target for sureJan 23 14:32
oiaohmSome forms are Linux these days.Jan 23 14:32
rnboiaohm: no, in my high school there were vocational programs around desktop publishing/graphic design that were based on apple products, alsoJan 23 14:32
Diablo-D3fucking shit up in a web browser because you're a telemarketer or whatever? OS doesnt matter, you're in a browserJan 23 14:32
Diablo-D3medical shits all moving to browser-basedJan 23 14:32
EruaranYou need general skills, familiarity, solid foundations. This will be much more valuable in the future.Jan 23 14:33
Diablo-D3embedded device work of any kind? linux or smallerJan 23 14:33
Diablo-D3mass communications such as the internet? linux linux linux.Jan 23 14:33
Diablo-D3the only place windows still has a place is PC gamingJan 23 14:33
oiaohmUnderstanding of terms so you can explain what you are doing.   More than knowning how to use a particular program.Jan 23 14:33
rnbDiablo-D3: that's nice. but when you go to find a job in ohio/indiana/pennsylvania/kentucky/etc, people will want to see that you know how to use Word and other M$ products. it is just a fact of life, whether you like it or notJan 23 14:33
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")Jan 23 14:33
oiaohmPeople have forgot the importants of terms.Jan 23 14:33
Diablo-D3rnb: yes, and as I said way at the beginning, I WONT WORK FOR THEMJan 23 14:33
rnbDiablo-D3: or whether it fits into your obvious delusional belief that no businesses use microsoftJan 23 14:34
EruaranI had a friend who believed he could get away with only Windows skills until he started his first week at university.Jan 23 14:34
oiaohmI still like asking some of these new kids what justified is.Jan 23 14:34
Diablo-D3rnb: I _will not_ get a job where I know the company will be bankrupt in the next 2-3 years if they dont changeJan 23 14:34
rnbDiablo-D3: no one cares who YOU would work for. i am talking about kids in high schoolJan 23 14:34
EruaranIn his first week they had him using Red Hat and ViJan 23 14:34
Diablo-D3job security is the _most_ important thingJan 23 14:34
Diablo-D3periodJan 23 14:34
EruaranHe panicked and told me, "I better learn Linux or I'll fail!"Jan 23 14:34
Diablo-D3whats the point of getting hired if you're just going to lose your job shortly after?Jan 23 14:34
rnbDiablo-D3: this is what i mean about sounding like an isolated, ivory tower dipshitJan 23 14:34
Diablo-D3says rnb, the microsoft fanboy.Jan 23 14:35
EruaranThings can change quicklyJan 23 14:35
rnbDiablo-D3: your experience or what you would do != what kids just entering the workforce are doingJan 23 14:35
EruaranAnd the IT world is due for changeJan 23 14:35
Diablo-D3what kids just entering the workforce == mcjobsJan 23 14:35
rnbhahaha microsoft fanboy? wow, you are not only delusional but you also have a tin earJan 23 14:35
Diablo-D3oh, and btw, many modern cash registers run linuxJan 23 14:36
Diablo-D3so even at mcjobs, its linux.Jan 23 14:36
cubezzzexample please Jan 23 14:36
oiaohmMy experince is schools teaching people software.   Effects software aquirement of small businesses  rnbJan 23 14:36
Diablo-D3quite a few POS boxes are either linux or vxworksJan 23 14:36
rnbDiablo-D3: oh, excellent point. i know that most retail stores require kids to know Linux before putting them in front of a cash registerJan 23 14:37
oiaohmSo not teaching open source causes areas to have less small businesses.  rnbJan 23 14:37
cubezzzRonald McDonald will be a linux hacker soon :)Jan 23 14:37
rnbDiablo-D3: i think you might be a little out-of-touch with what people need to know to get jobs like thatJan 23 14:37
Diablo-D3rnb: but why say stupid shit like that?Jan 23 14:37
oiaohmReason costs of MS windows limits what small business can do rnbJan 23 14:37
Diablo-D3using a fucking tivo is using linuxJan 23 14:37
Diablo-D3calling your grandmother on your android phone is using linuxJan 23 14:37
Diablo-D3why automatically define linux as something thats hard to useJan 23 14:37
EruaranEverything I learned in computing at high school in the 1980's was useless in the 1990's.Jan 23 14:37
rnbDiablo-D3: you dont need to learn linux skills to use a tivoJan 23 14:38
Diablo-D3rnb: thanks for making my point.Jan 23 14:38
rnbDiablo-D3: you DO need to learn M$ Word skills to get a job at an office where everyone uses WindowsJan 23 14:38
Diablo-D3Not everything is difficult and user-hateful as windows.Jan 23 14:38
rnbDiablo-D3: why is this so hard for you to understand?Jan 23 14:38
Diablo-D3rnb: why do you believe this is true?Jan 23 14:38
Diablo-D3Working at a job like that is not job securityJan 23 14:38
rnbDiablo-D3: why do i believe WHAT is true?Jan 23 14:38
oiaohmrnb:  that is a joke.Jan 23 14:39
Diablo-D3Windows, and any company dependent on Microsoft, is dead if they dont change.Jan 23 14:39
Diablo-D3Windows costs the US economy billions every yearJan 23 14:39
oiaohmMy mother at work uses openoffice and ms word.Jan 23 14:39
rnbDiablo-D3: that's delusional.Jan 23 14:39
oiaohmReason openoffice can open damaged documents word cannot.Jan 23 14:39
EruaranNo it isn't.Jan 23 14:39
rnbDiablo-D3: it is one of the main problems with foss advocacy -- delusion.Jan 23 14:39
Diablo-D3And thanks to our wonderful economic down turn, more companies realize they can half their IT staff and double their productivity by switching to LinuxJan 23 14:39
cubezzzlook what happened to GMJan 23 14:39
oiaohmrnb:  there are costs Jan 23 14:39
cubezzzno one is safeJan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3Who wants a computer thats a security hazard?Jan 23 14:40
oiaohmYou think what happens if a business cannot open there old documents rnbJan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3Who wants a computer that crashes at least twice a day?Jan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3Who wants to lose important business data?Jan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3No one.Jan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3Companies can't afford to be stupid.Jan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3Stupid companies are dead companies.Jan 23 14:40
Diablo-D3Microsoft == death.Jan 23 14:40
oiaohmYour schools are creating students without the knowledge to help business threw simple problems rnbJan 23 14:40
EruaranDiablo-D3 could have said the same thing about WordPerfect and Lotus 123 in the late 1980's and you might have said he was delusional then also. A few years later, it was all over for WordPerfect and Lotus.Jan 23 14:40
oiaohmThat can kill the businesses. rnbJan 23 14:40
cubezzzthe current software isn't that goodJan 23 14:41
cubezzzre: MicrosoftJan 23 14:41
cubezzzit's mostly just an upgrade treadmillJan 23 14:41
rnbDiablo-D3: see this page? 23 14:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Word Processor Jobs in Akron, OH | .::. Size~: 53.67 KBJan 23 14:41
Diablo-D3a "word processor"Jan 23 14:41
Diablo-D3lololololJan 23 14:41
rnb"Skills -Exceptional MS Office to include Outlook, Word, & Excel"Jan 23 14:41
Diablo-D3jobs like that dont exist in the real worldJan 23 14:41
oiaohmrnb: You are just like stupid eductationors.Jan 23 14:41
rnb"Experienced processors preferred, or experience... Excel & Access, also Word. If qualified please submit... "Jan 23 14:41
oiaohmJust because businesses are asking for X does not mean they need only X  rnbJan 23 14:42
rnb"MS Office (Word & Outlook) skills are essential"Jan 23 14:42
Diablo-D3A "word processor" is fancy speak for "the boss is 60 years old and refuses to learn those new fangled keyboards"Jan 23 14:42
oiaohmDo you give a drug addit drugs rnbJan 23 14:42
rnbDiablo-D3: hahaha, these ARE real world job adsJan 23 14:42
Diablo-D3Those people (thank God) are leaving the work force.Jan 23 14:42
Diablo-D3rnb: not in any part of the world I knowJan 23 14:42
rnbDiablo-D3: thats my point.Jan 23 14:42
oiaohmrnb: Remember what I sad about small business being driven by what schools supply.Jan 23 14:42
Diablo-D3I mean the other 49 states and most of Europe.Jan 23 14:42
oiaohmsaid.Jan 23 14:42
MinceRremember what a "food processor" does to food. the "word processor" does the same to words. :>Jan 23 14:42
Diablo-D3oh, and canadaJan 23 14:43
oiaohmrnb: You are seeing the effects of closed loop.Jan 23 14:43
Diablo-D3and south america is linux > windowsJan 23 14:43
Diablo-D3and africa has linux all over the placeJan 23 14:43
rnboiaohm: that is not true, it would be a disservice to students to teach them something that isnt widely looked for in the job market that is open to THEMJan 23 14:43
Diablo-D3and the chinese government also rolls their own linux distroJan 23 14:43
EruaranIt will be broken by disruptive new technologies. We can already see this happening.Jan 23 14:43
rnbDiablo-D3: i know all these thingsJan 23 14:44
oiaohmrnb: What if you teach studend both MS and openoffice.  rnbJan 23 14:44
rnbDiablo-D3: i'm not talking about south america, i'm talking about the USJan 23 14:44
oiaohmLong term effect business that take those students could start asking for people with openoffice skills rnbJan 23 14:44
Diablo-D3if linux hasnt already won, why would microsoft be spending millions over the past 5 years to slur linux's name?Jan 23 14:44
oiaohmIe schools are in control.  rnbJan 23 14:44
rnboiaohm: sure, maybe.. but i think you will find most students have a hard enough time learning one office suiteJan 23 14:44
oiaohmThey are just too dumb to know it rnbJan 23 14:44
oiaohmWhy rnbJan 23 14:44
oiaohmDo you know why.Jan 23 14:44
rnboiaohm: why what?Jan 23 14:45
Diablo-D3rnb: south america is supposed to be "worse" than usJan 23 14:45
oiaohmHave you ever asked them old school word processing terms.Jan 23 14:45
oiaohmThey dont' have a clue rnbJan 23 14:45
Diablo-D3yet, economically, they stand a chance of catching up if your version of the US was realJan 23 14:45
Diablo-D3thankfully, you're just an ignorant fuck on IRCJan 23 14:45
EruaranA boy or girl beginning high school this year will be using software that will be irrelevant by the time he or she enters the workforce a few years from now.Jan 23 14:45
oiaohmproblem is to search the word processor manual and the like you need the old school word processor terms.  rnbJan 23 14:45
oiaohmSo schools are sending out students who are truly crap word processors.Jan 23 14:46
rnbDiablo-D3: my version -is- real and i've publicly spoken/written about how students in latin america are poised to have better tech skills than US students, heading into the futureJan 23 14:46
oiaohmcannot talk word processing.Jan 23 14:46
oiaohmSo damaged effectiveness of job. rnbJan 23 14:46
oiaohmAnd its really annoying.Jan 23 14:46
Diablo-D3and yes, I do believe high school graduates should sue their schools Jan 23 14:46
Diablo-D3if they were exposed to windows _at all_ that has greatly harmed their chances of getting a jobJan 23 14:46
oiaohmLike they are could you please show me all the time because they have no clue of terms.  rnbJan 23 14:46
rnbDiablo-D3: i'll go you one even further. i have personally worked on projects in south america, helping build public educational infrastructure with FOSSJan 23 14:46
Diablo-D3the point of high school is to prepare them for their future jobs.Jan 23 14:47
oiaohmA person skilled in word processing terms can use any Office suite.Jan 23 14:47
Diablo-D3rnb: then stop sucking microsoft's dickJan 23 14:47
oiaohmReally the exam for word processing should be droping them on a word processor they have never seen.Jan 23 14:47
Diablo-D3Microsoft will not be here in 10 years.Jan 23 14:47
oiaohmAnd have to produce results.Jan 23 14:47
rnbDiablo-D3: you exemplify another downside that exists in the FOSS advocacy world, which is presumptivenessJan 23 14:47
Diablo-D3oh, and btwJan 23 14:47
Diablo-D3OOo is so close to officeJan 23 14:47
oiaohmThat can happen every 3 - 5 years with MS Office anyhow rnbJan 23 14:47
Diablo-D3this is also proof "students" in "school" dont even learn how to use computersJan 23 14:47
rnbi'm not "sucking microsoft's dick" ... i am being realistic about the current job marketJan 23 14:47
Diablo-D3rnb: Im being realisticfJan 23 14:48
Diablo-D3and we cant be both be realisticJan 23 14:48
oiaohmBut then eductation system would not make money retraining staff over and over again rnbJan 23 14:48
EruaranThe current job market is not what many students will be enteringJan 23 14:48
Diablo-D3the current job market died 2 years ago, Eruaran Jan 23 14:48
Eruaranthe future job market is what they will be enteringJan 23 14:48
rnbtowards crafting an effective foss advocacy program (which is how this conversation was started by me, since you apparently failed to notice this)Jan 23 14:48
Diablo-D3we're going through the natural refresh period we do periodicallyJan 23 14:48
oiaohmThe current education system is a vampire on Businesses rnbJan 23 14:48
oiaohmI am tell you rnb from a business point of view teaching MS Office does not make sence.Jan 23 14:49
oiaohmTeach the fields correctly makes sence.  rnbJan 23 14:49
Diablo-D3afkJan 23 14:49
rnbnow, watch as i decimate you:Jan 23 14:49
oiaohmLike word processing truly being word processing on what ever word processor.Jan 23 14:49
rnb 23 14:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "linux" - craigslist .::. Size~: 5.64 KBJan 23 14:49
Eruaranoiaohm is correctJan 23 14:50
oiaohmSo students don't stuff up with office suite changes that will happen.Jan 23 14:50
rnb 23 14:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "microsoft word" - craigslist .::. Size~: 13.77 KBJan 23 14:50
rnbend of argument.Jan 23 14:50
oiaohmWrongJan 23 14:50
rnbDiablo-D3: consider yourself owned :)Jan 23 14:50
oiaohmHow are those students goign to cope when the MS Office they where taught is no longer used answer me that.  rnbJan 23 14:50
oiaohmIs business going to be forced to pay for retraining rnb?Jan 23 14:51
rnboiaohm: people need jobs TODAY.Jan 23 14:51
EruaranThat arguent is like saying "Internet Explorer" rather than "Web Browser"Jan 23 14:51
rnboiaohm: not in some future fantasylandJan 23 14:51
oiaohmNone of them in school have learnt MS Office 2010 rnbJan 23 14:51
rnb 23 14:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "openoffice" - craigslist .::. Size~: 4.96 KBJan 23 14:51
oiaohmMost have learnt Office 2007 or 2003.Jan 23 14:51
oiaohmSo nailed. rnbJan 23 14:51
rnbsee how it says "Nothing found for that search"?Jan 23 14:52
oiaohmThat is the problem.  Software does not stay constant.Jan 23 14:52
oiaohmRemember I said openoffice as a training tool.Jan 23 14:52
oiaohmTo make sure students can cope with change.Jan 23 14:52
rnbwhereas the search for Microsoft Word returned over 70 results?Jan 23 14:52
oiaohmso they are ready to work no matter what they hit.Jan 23 14:52
Eruaransigh...Jan 23 14:52
rnbi even balanced the experiment in your favorJan 23 14:52
oiaohmDoes 70 results change the factor.Jan 23 14:52
rnb 23 14:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "microsoft office" - craigslist .::. Size~: 17.25 KBJan 23 14:53
oiaohmThat this year there is a new office suite.Jan 23 14:53
rnb110 resultsJan 23 14:53
EruaranGet a time machine and go back to 1987Jan 23 14:53
oiaohmthat businesses will be using some time rnbJan 23 14:53
EruaranSearch for "WordPerfect"Jan 23 14:53
EruarangeezJan 23 14:53
schestowitz[14:52] <rnb> whereas the search for Microsoft Word returned over 70 results?Jan 23 14:53
rnb 23 14:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "WordPerfect" - craigslist .::. Size~: 5.97 KBJan 23 14:53
schestowitzImproper statsJan 23 14:53
rnb2 resultsJan 23 14:53
oiaohmThat none of the students from last year are trianed in rnb.Jan 23 14:53
schestowitzLike comparing "linux" to "vista"Jan 23 14:53
EruaranI said get a time machineJan 23 14:54
oiaohmThose results are point less rnbJan 23 14:54
schestowitzOr "mac os X" to "Gnu system"Jan 23 14:54
Eruaranlearn to listenJan 23 14:54
rnbschestowitz: let's be clear what we're looking for -- what is of -practical value- for people entering the work force, per what should be taught in vocational programsJan 23 14:54
oiaohmYou are not explaining how students are going to cope with change. rnbJan 23 14:54
EruaranChange will come, its a fact of life.Jan 23 14:54
schestowitzrnb: OOo would let them teach colleague to save moneyJan 23 14:54
rnbschestowitz: my point is that foss advocacy should not try to change vocational programs in public schools, it is an ineffective strategyJan 23 14:54
oiaohmIf you have access to a historic database of jobs you would see changes.Jan 23 14:54
oiaohmWrong rnbJan 23 14:55
schestowitzThey can manage an office with decreased $10000 in expenses on a Trojan (Office)Jan 23 14:55
EruaranIt's ineffective to teach students properly ?Jan 23 14:55
rnbschestowitz: the only goal is for them to get a jobJan 23 14:55
oiaohmpublic schools is the best way to sell Office suites.Jan 23 14:55
oiaohmTruly it is rnbJan 23 14:55
oiaohmSo if you want market space you use schools.Jan 23 14:55
schestowitzA lot of offices can use other office suites nowJan 23 14:55
EruaranThe goal of education is to educateJan 23 14:55
schestowitzI have no problem with mine without OfficeJan 23 14:55
schestowitzNever had to get a WIndows box to run officeJan 23 14:56
rnbschestowitz: they *can* but most dontJan 23 14:56
schestowitzNot even to do nice animated slides in PresenterJan 23 14:56
schestowitzI could swap it with colleagues who used OfficeJan 23 14:56
rnbschestowitz: my point is that a better foss advocacy strategy is to focus on mandating local/state/federal governments to migrate to open sourceJan 23 14:56
oiaohmrnb: Answer me this how many students from last year were trained on Office 2010.Jan 23 14:56
EruaranAnd I say a student who has completed high school and doesn't even know how to save a document in MIcrosoft Word 2007 as a .doc instead of .docx is not educated.Jan 23 14:56
schestowitzrnb: yes, like in DenmarkJan 23 14:56
schestowitzrnb: I agree w/ youJan 23 14:56
cubezzzwhat is docx?Jan 23 14:57
rnbschestowitz: and that i dont think it is an effective strategy to try and change vocational programs in high schoolsJan 23 14:57
oiaohmvocational programs is a target.Jan 23 14:57
EruaranThe point is that they're not even teaching students how to save into different formats.Jan 23 14:57
oiaohmAlways has to be rnbJan 23 14:57
EruaranThis is not educationJan 23 14:57
schestowitzcubezzz: something I got just once by E-mailJan 23 14:57
EruaranIt's a jokeJan 23 14:57
schestowitzI thought it was a virus, deleted itJan 23 14:57
oiaohmEven if you change goverment you will not change small business without changing schools rnbJan 23 14:57
schestowitzIt was a mass-mailed msg, nothing importantJan 23 14:57
rnbschestowitz: well, my experience re: governments/foss comes more from latin america, which provides the absolute best example in the world in terms of scope and scaleJan 23 14:57
oiaohmAnd most business done is done by small business rnbJan 23 14:57
oiaohmReason why MS does so well with SBS server rnbJan 23 14:58
oiaohmYou just want to disreguard a loins share of the market rnb.Jan 23 14:58
cubezzzjust use the right tool for the jobJan 23 14:58
*Tallken ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 14:58
rnbschestowitz: however, my argument here is that a number of people believe that vocational programs shouldnt teach Word/Excel/etc because: 1) "Microsoft has no customer base" and 2) those skills arent looked for in the job marketJan 23 14:58
cubezzzor be self-employed :)Jan 23 14:58
rnbschestowitz: my point is that this is delusionalJan 23 14:59
oiaohmand you miss my point rnbJan 23 14:59
rnbschestowitz: for your average person looking for a job out of high school, Word/Excel/etc skills ARE what they needJan 23 14:59
oiaohmThat thoses programs are not providing the people businesses want either.Jan 23 14:59
EruaranA student who knows how to handle a variety of computer systems and a variety of software has an enormous advantage over a student who has no idea beyond very basic indoctrination by corporation - such students will not show initiative and cannot problem solveJan 23 14:59
oiaohmWhat version of word rnbJan 23 14:59
oiaohmWhat version of Excel.Jan 23 14:59
oiaohmThe business wants students able to use what they are using.Jan 23 14:59
oiaohmNot a student who has trained on 2007 but business is still using 2003 so is unable to use it.Jan 23 15:00
rnboiaohm: doesnt matter, familiarity with one version will make it easy for them to quickly learn another, if necessary. most job postings dont get that specificJan 23 15:00
oiaohmNo it does not rnbJan 23 15:00
rnbsighJan 23 15:00
cubezzzthat's so short-sightedJan 23 15:00
cubezzzno one has balls?Jan 23 15:00
oiaohmOnly if there mind is trianed to be flexable can they move between versions effectively.  rnbJan 23 15:00
rnbthis is the problem with foss advocacyJan 23 15:00
rnbso, i tell you guysJan 23 15:00
Eruaranyoure not advocating FOSSJan 23 15:00
EruaranYou're pushing M$Jan 23 15:01
cubezzzyeah reallyJan 23 15:01
oiaohmProblem is most of there minds are trained single tracked.  rnbJan 23 15:01
EruaranAnd you're not talking about education eitherJan 23 15:01
oiaohmI made lots of money doing MS Office retraining rnb on just out of school students.Jan 23 15:01
oiaohmI know what I am talking about.Jan 23 15:01
oiaohmThey had complete vocational and were basically usless.Jan 23 15:01
rnbgo to ohio or michigan or kentucky or minnesota and tell people who want a job as an Admin Assistant, or who just want ANY kind of office job at all to get them out of McDonalds, that they should REALLY be studying Linux desktops because learning Word wont help them at allJan 23 15:02
rnbit's just completely out of touch with realityJan 23 15:02
cubezzzI never learned WordJan 23 15:02
cubezzz_never_Jan 23 15:02
oiaohmNot what I am saying rnbJan 23 15:02
rnbas proven by the job postings i showed you from clevelandJan 23 15:02
oiaohmI am saying with a good grounding in word procesisng.Jan 23 15:02
rnbwhere there are hundreds of jobs asking for people with Word/Excel skillsJan 23 15:02
oiaohmYou can use word writer ... any office suite boss asks you to rnbJan 23 15:02
EruaranI went to a class once where the students were supposed to be learning MIcrosoft OfficeJan 23 15:02
EruaranI had never used itJan 23 15:02
oiaohmSo way more flexable rnbJan 23 15:02
EruaranI ended up helping the other studentsJan 23 15:03
oiaohmProblem is people coming out of schools are not flexaable.  rnbJan 23 15:03
rnband the search for Linux and OpenOffice returned ONE result, for a linux sysadmin.Jan 23 15:03
cubezzzyou can learn any system thoughJan 23 15:03
oiaohmSo harming business.Jan 23 15:03
cubezzzconcept based learning trumps specific learningJan 23 15:03
oiaohmDoes not matter how low the usage of Openoffice is rnbJan 23 15:03
Eruaranexactly cubezzzJan 23 15:03
oiaohmI am talking about teaching multiable office suits at once rnbJan 23 15:03
oiaohmOnly people who let there mind be flexable can cope with that rnbJan 23 15:04
EruaranDo you learn to drive a car or learn to drive a Ford Taurus ?Jan 23 15:04
oiaohmAnd that is exacty what businesses want rnbJan 23 15:04
cubezzzthere will be another shift in skills, since that is what always happensJan 23 15:04
rnbagain, the vocational programs are designed to be quick, efficient, and teach you the direct skills you need to know to go out and get a job, ASAPJan 23 15:04
oiaohmIe is not don't teach word.  it teach word + writer + others.Jan 23 15:04
rnbno one wants to learn irrelevant platforms that arent used in their job marketJan 23 15:04
oiaohmand cause most of there students to be fired at the next change over.Jan 23 15:05
rnbwhere are these "change overs" you speak of?Jan 23 15:05
oiaohmSince it cheeper to fire them than retrain them.Jan 23 15:05
oiaohmOffice suite version change overs rnbJan 23 15:05
rnbwhy arent they advertised in the job boards?Jan 23 15:05
oiaohmThey are.Jan 23 15:05
oiaohmWhat version MS Office are they asking for.Jan 23 15:05
rnbwhy could we not find ONE ad in cleveland requesting someone with "OpenOffice skills" ?Jan 23 15:05
oiaohmI was not meaning change from MS Office to Open OfficeJan 23 15:06
oiaohmI was meaning MS Office to MS OfficeJan 23 15:06
rnbbut we found 77 for "microsoft word", and 111 for "microsoft office"?Jan 23 15:06
oiaohmIf they are not flexable they will be fired at a MS Office change over.Jan 23 15:06
oiaohmThat simple.Jan 23 15:06
oiaohmand a new staff got.Jan 23 15:06
oiaohmPart of the reason why there are so many wanted.Jan 23 15:07
oiaohmOpenOffice staff don't get turned over.Jan 23 15:07
oiaohmWhat is the point they don't need retraining.Jan 23 15:07
rnbof course not, because they arent hired in the first place.Jan 23 15:07
oiaohmNoJan 23 15:07
rnboiaohm: can i ask where you live?Jan 23 15:07
oiaohmEverone highered will stay in there job as long as they like.Jan 23 15:08
oiaohmOk less are highered but that does not change.Jan 23 15:08
oiaohmAustralia rnbJan 23 15:08
oiaohmMS capital of sales in the world.Jan 23 15:08
oiaohmWe have the highest percent per head of MS software ownership anywhere rnbJan 23 15:08
rnbthat's odd, Diablo-D3 said that Microsoft has no customer baseJan 23 15:09
rnbare you saying there ARE M$ customers where you live?Jan 23 15:09
oiaohmMostly by force.Jan 23 15:09
rnbdoesnt matter whyJan 23 15:10
oiaohmYou cannot to business with goverment here without it.  rnbJan 23 15:10
rnbexactlyJan 23 15:10
rnbmyJan 23 15:10
rnbpointJan 23 15:10
oiaohmAnd that is self feed.Jan 23 15:10
oiaohmAnd that started  in education.Jan 23 15:10
oiaohmMost of the goverment lackies know nothing else.Jan 23 15:10
rnbagreedJan 23 15:11
rnbthats why M$ skills are required when you are looking for a job.Jan 23 15:11
oiaohmEducation is one of the keystonesJan 23 15:11
oiaohmHolding MS market share.Jan 23 15:11
oiaohmSo are openoffice stills rnbJan 23 15:11
oiaohmFor opening documents MS Office refuses to.Jan 23 15:11
oiaohmThat were made by past versions of MS OfficeJan 23 15:12
oiaohmYou don't need many people in the archives converison departments rnbJan 23 15:12
oiaohmThere are techincal reasons to make sure students know about more than 1 office suite.Jan 23 15:13
rnbmy point is very simple: 1) i think an effective foss campaign in the US/Canada would be to target local/state/federal governments and demand that they pass policies to migrate all their systems to FOSS, and 2) it is not an effective FOSS advocacy campaign to target vocational programs because in the real world, people need M$ skills to compete in that level of the job marketJan 23 15:13
rnbthose two points, that's all i'm sayingJan 23 15:13
oiaohmThe secound point is invalidJan 23 15:13
oiaohmPeople need FOSS skills to do there jobs to max effectiveness.Jan 23 15:14
EruaranDo you think if someone knows Open Office they won't understand how to use Microsoft Office ?Jan 23 15:14
rnbheh. ok.Jan 23 15:14
oiaohmPeople will keep there job of they can do something other staff cannot rnbJan 23 15:14
EruaranBefore I ever used Excel I previously used Lotus 123 and Quattro ProJan 23 15:15
rnbEruaran: i think that having some form of credentials/evidence that you have experience/training in M$ office is what employers are looking for on resumesJan 23 15:15
oiaohmLike opening old documents  rnbJan 23 15:15
EruaranDid these hinder me or give me an advantage ?Jan 23 15:15
rnbEruaran: and that 99% of hiring managers for these types of jobs have never even HEARD of OpenOfficeJan 23 15:15
oiaohmIts not just getting the job rnb its keeping it.Jan 23 15:15
oiaohmThat is where the education system is short visioned rnbJan 23 15:15
EruaranYou're missing the point completelyJan 23 15:16
oiaohmSame with lot of business I have  covereted old documents for when I got here.  rnbJan 23 15:16
oiaohmSome of those now advertised for OpenOffice skills.  rnbJan 23 15:16
oiaohmJust because they came into contact with one person who knew it.Jan 23 15:17
rnboiaohm: i'm all for FOSS in the educational system, for all the standard reasons. however, i dont think pushing for it in vocational programs is an effective FOSS strategy, because you are arguing to teach irrelevant skill sets to people who desperately want to stop working at Burger King and land a nice office jobJan 23 15:17
oiaohmI am saying landing job is half the battle rnbJan 23 15:17
EruaranIrrelevant skillset ?Jan 23 15:17
oiaohmThat is what you are missing.Jan 23 15:17
oiaohmHolding the job means being great at it.  rmbJan 23 15:18
oiaohmYou will not out do a cross skilled person rmbJan 23 15:18
oiaohmIf you only know MS OfficeJan 23 15:18
EruaranDo you really believe the concepts are so vastly different between word processors ?Jan 23 15:18
oiaohmconcepts are not vastly different.Jan 23 15:18
oiaohmBut files they can open are vastly different.Jan 23 15:18
EruaranyesJan 23 15:18
oiaohmEven like .doc files.Jan 23 15:19
oiaohmSome like Office 95 .doc files will not open at all in MS OfficeJan 23 15:19
oiaohmbut open perfectly in OpenOfficeJan 23 15:19
rnboiaohm: again, most people in vocational programs -- between other pressures in their life like kids/family, whatever -- have a hard enough time studying one platformJan 23 15:19
MinceRif people learn it the wrong way, the differences will seem vast to themJan 23 15:19
oiaohmrnb: I have taught 2 office suites at the same time to people.Jan 23 15:19
MinceRand focusing on one particular application can lead to thatJan 23 15:19
oiaohmIt takes no more time.  rnbJan 23 15:19
EruaranMy point is that here we have someone talking about "irrelevant skillsets" when the concepts are not difficult to translate from one program to anotherJan 23 15:19
EruaranMicrosoft doesn't invent any new conceptsJan 23 15:19
oiaohmInstead you most focus on using the correct terms. rnb.Jan 23 15:20
rnboiaohm: i know plenty of people who have done exactly this and i can just imagine telling them that the Word class they are taking at night will NOW have another requirement for them to get a little thing that says they know "Word" so they can put it on their resumeJan 23 15:20
oiaohmThe end result is students that cope with any Office suite droped in frount of them without issue rnbJan 23 15:20
oiaohmSo they can lie about the version of word they know.Jan 23 15:20
rnbok, well, i think you're really onto something. you should open up an "OpenOffice Training Center" in Akron, OhioJan 23 15:21
oiaohmSo they can apply for more jobs.Jan 23 15:21
oiaohmNever would rnbJan 23 15:21
oiaohmWhat I run is word processor training classes.Jan 23 15:21
rnbyou'll be a millionaire with all the people flocking to the one vocational school in town that offers itJan 23 15:21
EruaranYou can have spent your entire educational upbringing using FOSS software, spend a few minutes looking at Microsoft Word and write "I knowz teh MS Wordz" on your resumeJan 23 15:21
oiaohmPeople come out able to use full range of MS Office Full range of Open Office Full range of IBMS suite.Jan 23 15:21
rnbEruaran: people have not spent their entire educational upbringing using FOSS software.Jan 23 15:21
oiaohmSo they look highly effective rnbJan 23 15:22
rnboiaohm: url?Jan 23 15:22
oiaohmFor the same ammount of time people just walk way skilled in MS Office 1 version.Jan 23 15:22
oiaohmYes that is also cheating.Jan 23 15:22
rnboiaohm: you're saying that it is your job to do exactly what we are talking about?Jan 23 15:22
rnboiaohm: you are a vocational instructor?Jan 23 15:22
oiaohmSome of the time rnb yes.Jan 23 15:22
oiaohmI am a vocational instructor.Jan 23 15:23
rnboiaohm: where at?Jan 23 15:23
Eruaranrnb: You are someone who is quite adept at missing the point by a wide margin. That must take practice.Jan 23 15:23
oiaohmCurrently I am doing network adminationation.Jan 23 15:23
oiaohmI am basically a full business solution provider rnbJan 23 15:23
rnboiaohm: well, where before, then?Jan 23 15:23
rnbEruaran: i am making the point, and you are disagreeing with meJan 23 15:23
oiaohmI have enough work by word of month rnbJan 23 15:23
oiaohmCompanies like my results.Jan 23 15:24
Eruaranrnb: There you go again. Congrats.Jan 23 15:24
oiaohmPersonally I hate having to run training classes.Jan 23 15:24
rnboiaohm: right. ANYWAY... my point is about public vocational education or adult education classesJan 23 15:24
oiaohmI do adult education classesJan 23 15:24
oiaohmTo be correct staff education classesJan 23 15:25
EruaranNo one else here can make a point. rnb is making all the points. Only those points will be considered. rnb has spoken.Jan 23 15:25
oiaohmRetraining the people who are basically failures because of the other trainers.Jan 23 15:25
oiaohmYet they have a certificate saying they can do it.Jan 23 15:25
rnboiaohm: ok, amazing this didnt come up earlierJan 23 15:25
oiaohmIt didJan 23 15:26
oiaohmI was telling over and over again they are not flexable.Jan 23 15:26
oiaohmYou were not getting what I was getting at.Jan 23 15:26
oiaohmThe complete classes in all those volcation places are design just to give a person a bit of paper to get there foot in the door of a job.Jan 23 15:26
rnbsure.Jan 23 15:27
oiaohmNot what they need to keep that job.Jan 23 15:27
rnbwell, maybe things are radically different in .auJan 23 15:27
cubezzzactual learning is more important that the certificateJan 23 15:27
rnbi'm speaking about the job market in US/CanadaJan 23 15:27
rnb(although i doubt it is that different)Jan 23 15:27
oiaohmWhy will not a business not fire lower staff and higher new ones when they change office suite.Jan 23 15:27
oiaohmBecause that is cheaper than retraining the lower ones that are not flexable.Jan 23 15:28
oiaohmSo creating a effect of more market demard appearing in job markets.Jan 23 15:28
rnbit's extraordinarily expensive to fire/hire people, thats whyJan 23 15:28
oiaohmCompared to retraining no so much.Jan 23 15:28
rnbbut your premise is wrong to begin with, people will not be fired when a new version of Word comes outJan 23 15:28
oiaohmUSA is the same as here.Jan 23 15:28
oiaohmIts not exactly lined up.Jan 23 15:29
oiaohmCompanies are smart.Jan 23 15:29
oiaohmThey wait for at least the first service pack before changing over rnbJan 23 15:29
oiaohmYes it does line up rnbJan 23 15:29
rnbassuming the company immediately upgrades (which they dont), they dont fire their admin assistant whenever a new version of Office comes outJan 23 15:29
oiaohmSome do rnbJan 23 15:29
oiaohmAnd higher someone with a broader skill setJan 23 15:29
rnbeh, i'm growing tired of this silly argumentJan 23 15:30
oiaohmThe boarder the skill set lower the risk of being fired is.Jan 23 15:30
oiaohmIts not silly.Jan 23 15:30
rnbthe topic is not but the content here is.Jan 23 15:31
oiaohmThere are two halfs to having a job.Jan 23 15:31
oiaohmYou only want to look at one.Jan 23 15:31
oiaohmIe getting and holding it.Jan 23 15:31
rnbuh huhJan 23 15:31
oiaohmSome assistance are fired simple because they refuse to be flexable since they were never trained to be.Jan 23 15:32
oiaohmBrain flexablity is trained.Jan 23 15:32
rnb 23 15:33
rnb 23 15:33
rnboopsJan 23 15:33
Eruarangeez rnb this is not brain surgeryJan 23 15:33
Eruaranyou are just not listeningJan 23 15:34
rnb2nd url is ->Jan 23 15:34
rnb 23 15:34
Eruaranwhat a waste of timeJan 23 15:34
rnb1st search = 119 jobsJan 23 15:34
rnb2nd search = 1 job (and i'm amazed at that)Jan 23 15:34
Eruarantalking to a brick wallJan 23 15:35
rnbi'm sorry that the real world does not fit with what you'd like it to beJan 23 15:35
EruaranEnjoy your lowest common denominator job training, and a workforce of underpaid permatempsJan 23 15:36
rnbemployers dont care if you know linux or openoffice, in the job market i'm talking aboutJan 23 15:36
Eruaranwere not even talking about linux or openoffice !Jan 23 15:36
EruaranffsJan 23 15:36
Eruaranwhat a moronJan 23 15:36
rnbhahaJan 23 15:36
cubezzzthere's lots of linux jobsJan 23 15:37
rnbcubezzz: i'm referring specifically to vocational programs in high schools or even adult education programs for people looking to upgrade from a REALLY shitty job to a nice office jobJan 23 15:37
Eruaranwere talking about real job skills not crappy certs from job clubJan 23 15:37
rnbcubezzz: not the IT job marketJan 23 15:38
EruaranpermatempsJan 23 15:38
Eruarannot a nice jobJan 23 15:38
rnbi've repeatedly stated my point, which apparently you disagree withJan 23 15:39
rnbEruaran: again, in the real world, an office job -is- a nice jobJan 23 15:39
Eruaranyou've repeatedly and deliberately blocked your ears to any point anyone has madeJan 23 15:39
rnbEruaran: something they strive to get and dont really know how toJan 23 15:39
EruaranI live in the real world thanksJan 23 15:39
rnbEruaran: by all means, make a pointJan 23 15:40
EruaranI haveJan 23 15:40
Eruaranas have othersJan 23 15:40
rnbEruaran: can you summarize it, as i've done for you several times?Jan 23 15:40
EruaranStop insulting everyones intelligence with this inane merry go round of avoidanceJan 23 15:40
EruaranSummary: real skillsJan 23 15:41
rnbcan your summary include a verb?Jan 23 15:41
EruarannoJan 23 15:41
rnbi didnt think soJan 23 15:41
cubezzzeveryone lives in the real world, lolJan 23 15:42
cubezzzis there some other one?Jan 23 15:42
EruaranIf you haven't gotten the point yet no amount of verbs are going to help youJan 23 15:42
oiaohmTHe biggest problem rnb.  Is getting that what the job market requests and what businesses need are two different things.Jan 23 15:43
oiaohmYou hope they match up but real world they don't rnbJan 23 15:44
rnbok, so how do you disagree with what i've said, given that fascinating assertion?Jan 23 15:44
oiaohmYou are using information that gives you a false assertion.Jan 23 15:45
oiaohmAsk businesses what is there common issues with word processed documents.Jan 23 15:45
oiaohmOne of the most common ones is documents failing to open.Jan 23 15:45
oiaohmDue to version changes.Jan 23 15:45
rnboiaohm: so?Jan 23 15:46
oiaohmDo those course you were talking about provide people with the skills to deal with that.Jan 23 15:46
rnboiaohm: yes, they teach you how to use Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etcJan 23 15:47
oiaohmAnswer most don't.  So they are not meeting businesses needs.Jan 23 15:47
EruaranlolJan 23 15:47
oiaohmDo they teach you how to coveret from old version of word to new rnbJan 23 15:47
oiaohmWhere you have to use items like OpenOffice at times.Jan 23 15:47
rnboiaohm: if it is the #1 need of businesses? of courseJan 23 15:47
oiaohmNopJan 23 15:47
rnb*have to use* OpenOffice at times? Jan 23 15:48
oiaohmThere is no other option.Jan 23 15:48
oiaohmIts the only thing that will run on a modern OS that can open some of the old formats rnbJan 23 15:48
rnbhow do all these businesses function, then, when OpenOffice has never once been installed at their company?Jan 23 15:48
cubezzzok, time for me to work :)Jan 23 15:48
cubezzzinstalling linux on computers :)Jan 23 15:48
oiaohmLot of business lose documents and so on over it rnbJan 23 15:48
oiaohmSince they have no one that knows better they live with the lose rnbJan 23 15:49
oiaohmYou have the myth people are learnign what business needs.Jan 23 15:49
cubezzzoiaohm, let it go, he's never going to agreeJan 23 15:49
oiaohmThe questions stop at what Office suite the business are using from most training companies.Jan 23 15:49
oiaohmNot what issues business are having rnbJan 23 15:49
rnbif it were true that OpenOffice is ABSOLUTLELY NEEDED in order for a company to function ... it might appear more often in job ads.Jan 23 15:50
oiaohmSo they don't have the data to meet the needs of businesses so they don't.Jan 23 15:50
oiaohmAgain that is only if the company knows they need it rnbJan 23 15:50
rnbisnt that an odd disconnect?Jan 23 15:50
rnbwell, certainly SOME companies must know itJan 23 15:50
oiaohmNot really rnbJan 23 15:50
oiaohmSo you see 1 or 2 jobs asking for it.Jan 23 15:51
oiaohmBecause a small percent know.Jan 23 15:51
oiaohmAnd of course they don't tell the competition.Jan 23 15:51
oiaohmWhy help a competitor.Jan 23 15:51
rnb(i'm humoring you, because of course you dont NEED openoffice)Jan 23 15:51
rnbbut, if that were true, and the companies dont know itJan 23 15:51
rnband the hiring managers dont know itJan 23 15:52
cubezzzyou don't NEED microsoft office eitherJan 23 15:52
rnband no one knows it, its a BIG SECRETJan 23 15:52
rnbhow could it possibly affect people being hired or fired?Jan 23 15:52
oiaohmYou have got it right so far rnbJan 23 15:52
oiaohmWhen did the managers learn about open office and what it can do rnbJan 23 15:52
rnbbut the managers dont, right?Jan 23 15:53
rnbonly 1 or 2 companies in the job market even KNOW this incredible secretJan 23 15:53
rnbaccording to what you're saying ...Jan 23 15:53
oiaohmIts not that secretJan 23 15:53
rnbwhoops!Jan 23 15:53
rnbok, so now it isnt secretJan 23 15:53
oiaohmJust they don't even know it could exist.Jan 23 15:53
oiaohmSo they don't even look for it.Jan 23 15:53
oiaohmTunneled vision caused by bad training.Jan 23 15:54
rnbwhich brings me back to wondering why it isnt including on the job requirements they are posting?Jan 23 15:54
oiaohmOnly if managers know about it will it be there.Jan 23 15:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another #Microsoft Vice President Abandons the Company 23 15:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Another Microsoft Vice President Abandons the Company | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.5 KBJan 23 15:54
oiaohmThat is you problem job postings explain nothing rnbJan 23 15:54
rnbso, there's this big competitive secret to making a company workJan 23 15:55
rnbno one knows itJan 23 15:55
oiaohmIBM has there own office suit based of open office for a reason rnbJan 23 15:55
rnband thats why foss advocates should push openoffice on vocational programsJan 23 15:55
oiaohmIt improves effectiveness of company.Jan 23 15:56
oiaohmA company can still run without it but they run else effectively.Jan 23 15:56
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rnbthis whole thing has degenerated into absurdity. thousands of companies function fine without linux or openoffice, people looking for work dont need openoffice skills to get or retain a job and thats why i say it isnt an effective strategy for foss advocacy.Jan 23 15:57
Omar87Greetings everyone!Jan 23 15:57
oiaohmAnd the more effective a company runs the more chance it will grow and emply more.Jan 23 15:57
rnbOmar87! salaamJan 23 15:57
oiaohmrnb: difference here you have not done studies on people with openoffice skills.Jan 23 15:57
oiaohmcombinded with MS Office skils.Jan 23 15:57
oiaohmthey are not either or.Jan 23 15:57
oiaohmThe joint normally are the last to be fired rnb.Jan 23 15:58
Omar87rnb: wa alaikom al salam. :-)Jan 23 15:58
oiaohmThe retain bit by you is crap rnbJan 23 15:58
rnbOmar87: :) Jan 23 15:58
oiaohmrnb:  little quesiton how many hours to retrain a person from MS Office to Open Office.Jan 23 15:59
rnbOmar87: you know, i just noticed in the news that i've been so busy, i missed that there was an attack against an israeli diplomatic convoy in jordan some days agoJan 23 16:00
rnbOmar87: do you know if a group claimed credit for that?Jan 23 16:01
rnboiaohm: really.. it's just too absurd to continueJan 23 16:02
Omar87rnb: I haven't heard of anything like that.Jan 23 16:03
oiaohmrnb:  8 hours .  Most is just showing the person where the minor differences are.Jan 23 16:05
rnbOmar87: 23 16:05
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 97.59 KBJan 23 16:05
rnbOmar87: did people in Jordan, generally, have high hopes for Obama & the Palestinian peace process?Jan 23 16:07
rnbOmar87: i'm sure by now, they realize that Obama isnt going to change anything reallyJan 23 16:08
rnbOmar87: but when he first got electedJan 23 16:08
Omar87<rnb> Omar87: did people in Jordan, generally, have high hopes for Obama & the Palestinian peace process?Jan 23 16:08
Omar87rnb: Only the ignorants.Jan 23 16:09
rnbOmar87: hehehehehJan 23 16:09
Omar87<rnb> Omar87: i'm sure by now, they realize that Obama isnt going to change anything reallyJan 23 16:09
rnbOmar87: same hereJan 23 16:09
Omar87rnb: yes that's true, perhaps. Though given, they are ignorants, there's also a slight possiblity that they still think Obama is Superman.Jan 23 16:10
rnbOmar87: if anything, they've made things worse by making that weak statement about settlementsJan 23 16:11
rnbOmar87: and israel completely ignored themJan 23 16:12
Omar87rnb: I believe one thing that might work with some of them, and that is to show them Obama standing in the AIPAC declraning is luciferian devotion to Israel under all cercumstances.Jan 23 16:12
rnbOmar87: eh, they ar completely owned by AIPACJan 23 16:12
Omar87declaring*Jan 23 16:13
Omar87declaring his*..Jan 23 16:13
Omar87rnb: it seems you didn't enjoy hearing the word "luciferian", huh?Jan 23 16:18
rnbOmar87: i dont mind that wordJan 23 16:21
Omar87rnb: i see.Jan 23 16:21
Omar87rnb: but..?Jan 23 16:21
rnbOmar87: the US/Israel policies are evil, if you ask meJan 23 16:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst I was in a similar situationJan 23 16:22
rnbOmar87: i would say that more US *people* -- like, normal people -- are becoming more aware of what is being done to the palestiniansJan 23 16:25
rnbOmar87: this is one of the few hopes i have about the situationJan 23 16:25
Omar87rnb: that's correct.Jan 23 16:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Internet Explorer Vulnerable a Day After the Critical Patch, #Firefox Keeps Gaining, But China Remains Stuck 23 16:33
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rnbOmar87: the problem is ...Jan 23 16:34
rnbOmar87: it doesnt really matter what *people* in the US think :(Jan 23 16:34
Omar87rnb: Well, imho, ppl of the US should spend more time freeing themselves first. :-)Jan 23 16:37
rnbOmar87: i agreeJan 23 16:38
rnbOmar87: i work on it, every dayJan 23 16:38
rnbOmar87: yesterday, the Supreme Court here made it even easier for corporations and lobbyists to bribe politiciansJan 23 16:39
Omar87rnb: I just love what Goerge Carlin once said about "the politians". :)Jan 23 16:42
Omar87Does anyone know if Freenode allows Tor?Jan 23 16:42
MinceRiirc they support it through a hidden serviceJan 23 16:43
MinceRbut when there's an attack going on through Tor, they disable itJan 23 16:43
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MikeyCRoy, you there?Jan 23 16:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The later years 23 17:02
schestowitzHey, MikeyCJan 23 17:03
schestowitzyes, I'm hereJan 23 17:03
schestowitzWhat's up?Jan 23 17:03
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Messages from the Thought Police ( #Microsoft / #Novell ) #spin #fud #mono #idgJan 23 17:30
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Motorola asks ITC to ban the Blackberry ouf of the US market for the violation of 5 patents 23 17:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Motorola Asks ITC To Ban BlackBerry Imports .::. Size~: 63.23 KBJan 23 17:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Activists kicked out and the public had to sign NDA in order to talk about ACTA: 23 17:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Activist ejected from "public" meeting on secret copyright treaty for tweeting Boing Boing .::. Size~: 44.42 KBJan 23 17:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] FAO Drupal admins; Fusion & Skinr open all sorts of theming doors for your site. Check the video out & try it out 23 18:03
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Bush père e fils have left #Iraq radioactive & poisoned. #war 23 18:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Bush père et fils have left #Iraq radioactive & poisoned. #war 23 18:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Sundance offers Klein's "Shock Doctrine" by video on demand (perfect timing) #haiti #tarp #iraq #katrina #bailoutsJan 23 18:22
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "10 #Apple mistakes" about half right. Several facts wrong. 23 18:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: When Apple gets it wrong: 10 irritations from the last decade - Tech Central - Times Online - WBLG .::. Size~: 54.11 KBJan 23 18:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @qu1j0t3 many in Iraq reportedly get cancer after this (but not just this)Jan 23 18:37
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing #globalwarming #fud #patents #whitewashJan 23 18:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KBJan 23 18:49
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: ^^Jan 23 18:49
FurnaceBoy....Jan 23 18:50
*FurnaceBoy taps his outrage meterJan 23 18:50
FurnaceBoyis it safe to go in there>Jan 23 18:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] @schestowitz cancer, birth defects, the whole nine yards. While not new news, this is a huge crime even over & above the invasion & genocideJan 23 18:50
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ed-209hehJan 23 19:02
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "Bill Gates: de facto minister noone can elect or impeach" #Gates Foundation corrupts & undermines #education worldwide 23 19:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KBJan 23 19:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@AriannaHuff ington is simply part of the problem, not part of the solution. #gates #corruption #greed #microsoftJan 23 19:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KBJan 23 19:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Huffington Post participates in #Gates family reputation laundering. #mafia #crime #greed #fraud #corruption #microsoftJan 23 19:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KBJan 23 19:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Bill #Gates launches new attacks on the environment from Huffington Post. #crime #greedJan 23 19:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KBJan 23 19:05
cubezzznow what? :)Jan 23 19:07
cubezzzyeah ok, I don't understand how Gates "make a killing" from that articleJan 23 19:09
cubezzzI must be missing somethingJan 23 19:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Today: Bill #Gates syndicated by Huffington Post. Tomorrow: #Kissinger gets a column in Socialist Worker.Jan 23 19:09
FurnaceBoythe killing is just en passantJan 23 19:10
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: flattered to be quotedJan 23 19:10
FurnaceBoyhehJan 23 19:10
FurnaceBoyspeaking of Socialist Worker. 23 19:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: John Pilger | .::. Size~: 26.64 KBJan 23 19:11
FurnaceBoyone of the great journalists.Jan 23 19:11
FurnaceBoyrnb: ^^ :)Jan 23 19:11
cubezzzyeah Gates is still the richestJan 23 19:12
FurnaceBoywhen did wealth become an alternative to accountability?Jan 23 19:14
FurnaceBoyoh.. never mind..Jan 23 19:14
cubezzzwell with bucks you can buy influence obviouslyJan 23 19:14
cubezzz"n Go(l)d we trust" :)Jan 23 19:15
cubezzzInJan 23 19:15
FurnaceBoyyes, what you said was right. when you're the richest man, half the US population worships you even if you eat babies on stage.Jan 23 19:16
FurnaceBoyit's cultural trainingJan 23 19:16
FurnaceBoyends justify the meansJan 23 19:16
FurnaceBoyetcJan 23 19:16
FurnaceBoy"You can't arrest me! I'm rich!"Jan 23 19:16
cubezzzI really do admire Stallman thoughJan 23 19:17
FurnaceBoyand in fact, as we see from Novell case, "You can't depose me! I'm rich and busy!"Jan 23 19:17
FurnaceBoy(that really happened)Jan 23 19:17
cubezzzI can believe itJan 23 19:17
FurnaceBoygroklaw has an article on itJan 23 19:17
FurnaceBoyfawning sycophancyJan 23 19:18
cubezzzUS senators seem to kiss Gates' ass a lotJan 23 19:18
FurnaceBoythere's several problems 1) suppression of facts 2) denial of revealed facts 3) ideology: rich people are, a priori, entitledJan 23 19:19
cubezzzit's tough to avoidJan 23 19:19
FurnaceBoyyes, it's a vicious circle.Jan 23 19:19
FurnaceBoyand when supposedly progressive media buy into it...Jan 23 19:20
FurnaceBoywell...Jan 23 19:20
FurnaceBoyat least now I see who Arianna really isJan 23 19:20
FurnaceBoythat saved some time and confusionJan 23 19:20
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cubezzzyes, some people admire the ruthless businessmanJan 23 19:20
FurnaceBoycubezzz: it's an ideology...Jan 23 19:21
FurnaceBoycubezzz: a completely uncivilised oneJan 23 19:21
DaemonFCcubezzz: The state is worse than any businessman Jan 23 19:21
DaemonFCthey go out and charge people with crimes they can essentially buy their way out ofJan 23 19:21
DaemonFCgot $600? That's as good as a get out of jail free card for most misdemeanors Jan 23 19:23
*jono has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jan 23 19:23
FurnaceBoydid the misdemeanor occur?Jan 23 19:23
DaemonFCplus the $400 to your lawyer to "negotiate" the pre-trial diversionJan 23 19:23
FurnaceBoyMicrosoft's crimes are hardly in disputeJan 23 19:23
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: The state slapped me with a baseless charge back in 2008Jan 23 19:24
DaemonFC$1000 made it all go awayJan 23 19:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: why do you stick around there?Jan 23 19:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you're describing the system that lets Microsoft continue unchanged, sure.Jan 23 19:24
DaemonFCI don't know, it's crooked as hellJan 23 19:24
DaemonFCmy attorney advised me not to go to court because they didn't even need any evidence against meJan 23 19:25
DaemonFCit was just the judge's decision of who to believe, the state, or meJan 23 19:25
FurnaceBoyisn't that the definition of a trial?Jan 23 19:25
DaemonFCwell, generally they have to prove you did something before sending you to jail for a year I thoughJan 23 19:25
DaemonFC*thoughtJan 23 19:26
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you had the chance to go before a judgeJan 23 19:26
DaemonFCbut this is just the statement of another person against me, as read by the stateJan 23 19:26
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: are you saying the judge said, "pay me or i'll convict"Jan 23 19:26
DaemonFCnot the judgeJan 23 19:26
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: so why would the judge convict?Jan 23 19:26
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you're assuming the judge was in on itJan 23 19:26
DaemonFCthe state told the judge to remove it after I paid themJan 23 19:26
DaemonFCthe judge gets away with committing crimes regularlyJan 23 19:27
FurnaceBoyyou paid to avoid a trial. isn't that part of the system?Jan 23 19:27
DaemonFCthe police let him goJan 23 19:27
DaemonFCthat judge in particular, that isJan 23 19:27
FurnaceBoycorporations do this all the timeJan 23 19:27
DaemonFCmainly drunk drivingJan 23 19:27
FurnaceBoyevery single day. Intel just did it with AMDJan 23 19:27
DaemonFCthey've pulled him over several times that I'm aware of and let him goJan 23 19:28
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: well, you can shoot him.Jan 23 19:28
DaemonFCthe judge is also a RepublicanJan 23 19:28
DaemonFCwho is having sex with my landlordJan 23 19:28
DaemonFC(another man) :PJan 23 19:28
DaemonFCrunning on the platform of "family values"Jan 23 19:29
DaemonFCneedless to say, I didn't feel too confident to let him decide whether or not I spend 1 year in jail and got a $5,000 fineJan 23 19:29
DaemonFCI wish I could pay a private detective to follow him and take some pictures of the goings on between my landlord and the judgeJan 23 19:30
DaemonFCleak the evidence out anonymously and destroy the SOBJan 23 19:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: pretty soon it will be legal to shoot gays and you can just do that.Jan 23 19:31
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: It already is if you use the Twinkie Defense or the Gay Panic DefenseJan 23 19:32
DaemonFC(sometimes, depends on the jury)Jan 23 19:32
cubezzzummJan 23 19:32
DaemonFCTwinkie Defense got the 1st degree murder charges dropped to voluntary manslaughter in the case of the murderer of Harvey MilkJan 23 19:33
cubezzzwhat does "Twinkie Defense" mean?Jan 23 19:33
DaemonFCthe defendant's lawyer claimed the guy was not thinking clearly because of a bad diet of junk food that he was eating at the timeJan 23 19:33
FurnaceBoy...Jan 23 19:33
DaemonFCthe press dubbed it the Twinkie DefenseJan 23 19:34
FurnaceBoywell, that applies to most ppl in the continental USA.Jan 23 19:34
FurnaceBoythe whole country should use the Twinkie DefenceJan 23 19:34
FurnaceBoyto excuse being complete f***ing idiotsJan 23 19:34
DaemonFCyeah, flimsy grounds to let a guy that murdered a gay man goJan 23 19:34
DaemonFCwhich was all they neededJan 23 19:34
DaemonFCThen there's the Gay Panic Defense, which was started with the Matthew Shepard murder, which did not work there but has acquitted in several other trialsJan 23 19:35
DaemonFC"He was hitting on me, I didn't know what to do, so I killed him...your honor"Jan 23 19:35
DaemonFC"The defense rests"Jan 23 19:36
DaemonFC:PJan 23 19:36
DaemonFCso the Gay Panic Defense probably gives you at least a 50/50 shot of having the charges droppedJan 23 19:36
DaemonFCit's a form of "temporary insanity"Jan 23 19:37
FurnaceBoyholy crap. Shepard. that was horrible.Jan 23 19:37
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Either or "justice" system lets the bad guy off the hook, or they maliciously prosecute innocent peopleJan 23 19:37
DaemonFCit's badly brokenJan 23 19:37
DaemonFC*ourJan 23 19:38
cubezzzthey attack guys in mixed marriages tooJan 23 19:38
cubezzzit's just hatredJan 23 19:38
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I see now why your heart is broken after supporting ObamaJan 23 19:38
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: he was a chance, eh  :-/Jan 23 19:38
FurnaceBoynot so much...Jan 23 19:38
DaemonFCmaybeJan 23 19:38
FurnaceBoyhis tenure has so far been a cynical nightmare.Jan 23 19:39
FurnaceBoyplus ca changeJan 23 19:39
DaemonFCI figured it couldn't be any worse than Bush, which he's not, but he's not much betterJan 23 19:39
FurnaceBoyit was a shell game.Jan 23 19:39
cubezzzit's the banks I thinkJan 23 19:39
FurnaceBoywe got Black BushJan 23 19:39
cubezzzthe American banks seem really screwed upJan 23 19:39
FurnaceBoywe? sorry. you. but we transitively, as we all pay for US faultsJan 23 19:39
DaemonFChe's still throwing billions at companies that deserve to failJan 23 19:39
DaemonFCit's not creating jobsJan 23 19:39
DaemonFCand he's trying to get illegal aliens amnestyJan 23 19:40
cubezzzseriously I wouldn't want the job :)Jan 23 19:40
FurnaceBoythat policy of Bush's was rejectedJan 23 19:40
DaemonFCoccasionally makes detours to finance foreign abortion clinicsJan 23 19:40
FurnaceBoyI am sure it will continue to be rejected.Jan 23 19:40
cubezzzblamed for every problem...Jan 23 19:40
schestowitz[19:09] <cubezzz> yeah ok, I don't understand how Gates "make a killing" from that articleJan 23 19:40
schestowitzHe postpones global warmingJan 23 19:40
FurnaceBoycubezzz: that *is* the job. he's just a spokesman, an actor.Jan 23 19:40
schestowitzAs in hey, "let's just ask warming to hold on for a bit"Jan 23 19:40
FurnaceBoycubezzz: he knew what it was about when he accepted it.Jan 23 19:40
DaemonFCI wouldn't make a very effective president, FurnaceBoy, I'd get the Jesse Ventura EffectJan 23 19:41
schestowitzAnd meanwhile he's investing in Nigerian oil, Monsanto's damage of soil for short-term financial gains, etc.Jan 23 19:41
MikeyChey royJan 23 19:41
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: he;s invested in waste.Jan 23 19:41
DaemonFCthe Congress overrules almost everything I veto because they're still Democrats and RepublicansJan 23 19:41
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: he's the perfect capitalistaJan 23 19:41
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I am thining of Ash's dialogue in AlienJan 23 19:41
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: thinking*Jan 23 19:41
MikeyCzapatista?Jan 23 19:42
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: "How can you not admire it? It's a perfect organism"Jan 23 19:42
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: So even a president that was not a corporate shill wouldn't be enoughJan 23 19:42
cubezzzAsh being the android?Jan 23 19:42
DaemonFC80% of the crap that Congress does would still passJan 23 19:42
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's an oxymoron. there is no other president possibleJan 23 19:42
FurnaceBoycubezzz: yes :)Jan 23 19:42
FurnaceBoycubezzz: i read the shooting script the other day. godd*mn that film is well done.Jan 23 19:42
FurnaceBoycubezzz: it's beautiful how Ash's dialogue is crafted Jan 23 19:43
DaemonFCI liked Aliens betterJan 23 19:43
DaemonFCthe Vietnam-style platoon of marinesJan 23 19:43
FurnaceBoycubezzz: to be on-message while not giving the game away. it's chilling. Jan 23 19:43
schestowitzhey, MikeyCJan 23 19:43
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: yes, that's the crass yankee take. Alien I is far more subtleJan 23 19:43
schestowitzI'm catching upJan 23 19:43
cubezzzI always wondered what the deal was with that giant reclining lifeform near the beginning of the movieJan 23 19:44
schestowitzDid some work todayJan 23 19:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: the Navigator, isn't he called?Jan 23 19:44
cubezzzFurnaceBoy, I think soJan 23 19:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: that's a great concept... i think the concept art fleshed that out more.Jan 23 19:44
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: I just don't like the slow moving monster moviesJan 23 19:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: he was in a deleted scene in Aliens as wellJan 23 19:44
DaemonFC"It's right behind you!!!!" is so oldJan 23 19:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: you can find it on YouTubeJan 23 19:44
cubezzzPoltergeist was a bit of a shocker tooJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoycubezzz: yeah I remember it wellJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoycubezzz: another finely crafted filmJan 23 19:45
DaemonFCDrag Me To Hell was alrightJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: well, Alien is slow yes, but it's deliberateJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I actually love slow movies hahahaJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: people vomited in the focus group showings in the USJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and passed out iircJan 23 19:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Drag me to Hell -- haha, i did see that. laughed through most of it, it was good comedyJan 23 19:46
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: I want the monster to be something that can scare me just by watching itJan 23 19:46
DaemonFCAlien just didn't do that for meJan 23 19:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the alien *doesn't*??Jan 23 19:46
FurnaceBoywow.Jan 23 19:46
FurnaceBoyyou're hardJan 23 19:46
DaemonFCI watched it when I was like 5Jan 23 19:46
cubezzzlol, I just typed sss.boggle.comJan 23 19:46
cubezzzspace 1999 had that giant spider thing :)Jan 23 19:47
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: yes, i saw it at about 10, my brother was 8 or somethingJan 23 19:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] \o/ for pathauto in DrupalJan 23 19:47
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Something that has me looking behind my back kind of creeped outJan 23 19:47
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: didn't sleep for six months :DJan 23 19:47
DaemonFCAlien was so far from doing thatJan 23 19:47
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: JAWS made me scared to go int he pool for like a yearJan 23 19:47
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: our school took us to see itJan 23 19:48
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: You are aware that sharks are in the ocean?Jan 23 19:48
DaemonFCB-)Jan 23 19:48
DaemonFCof course pools might not be safe either in FloridaJan 23 19:48
DaemonFCalligator got into our hotel pool when we were there onceJan 23 19:48
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: yes I am, but i was just a kid :)Jan 23 19:49
DaemonFCI got to watch animal control pull it outJan 23 19:49
cubezzzyou couldn't have been very old when Jaws came outJan 23 19:49
DaemonFCnow imagine being in a pool with that thingJan 23 19:49
FurnaceBoycubezzz: probably saw it around 11 years oldJan 23 19:49
FurnaceBoycubezzz: wasn't first release, i thinkJan 23 19:49
cubezzzahJan 23 19:49
FurnaceBoycubezzz: i'm still amazed our school took the class to see itJan 23 19:49
cubezzzI remember the "Lips" shirts that had a shark with huge lips on it :)Jan 23 19:49
DaemonFCI hate snakes and spiders especiallyJan 23 19:50
DaemonFCI've only ever seen two snakes in Indiana, and one was poisonousJan 23 19:50
DaemonFCI ended up catching it when I went fishingJan 23 19:50
DaemonFC 23 19:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Agkistrodon piscivorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 97.66 KBJan 23 19:51
DaemonFCone of thoseJan 23 19:51
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Now sipping my first beer in two weeks. Mmmmmmm bliss.Jan 23 19:51
DaemonFCone of the fishermen had a machete for cleaning fish withJan 23 19:51
DaemonFCso I beheaded the snake with itJan 23 19:51
DaemonFCthey cut it up and we used it for catfish baitJan 23 19:52
DaemonFCand it works well as catfish bait tooJan 23 19:52
DaemonFCI had a catfish whisker go through my hand once (not that trip)Jan 23 19:53
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 19:53
cubezzz 23 19:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Space Jockey (Alien) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 41.96 KBJan 23 19:55
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: There's a few ways to prepare those, stuffed, blackened, deep friedJan 23 19:55
DaemonFCseveral moreJan 23 19:55
DaemonFCI like it prepared any way, but blackened is my favoriteJan 23 19:55
FurnaceBoy 23 19:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  » Blog Archive   » 5 Jokes About The Apparent Eagerness Of Certain Democratic Members Of Congress To Abandon Health Care Reform In Light Of Scott Browns Electoral Victory .::. Size~: 13.17 KBJan 23 19:58
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Earth's military was trying to use the things as a weapon tooJan 23 19:58
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 19:58
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Weyland-YutaniJan 23 19:58
DaemonFCmilitary contractors Jan 23 19:58
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: "This future isn't as distant as you think."Jan 23 19:58
DaemonFCI doubt the military would be stupid enough to release them anywhere on EarthJan 23 19:59
DaemonFCyou never know thoughJan 23 19:59
DaemonFCthe whole "queen" concept is kind of stupidJan 23 20:00
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: well, they don't exist. there are plenty of real problems to worry about, such as the military spraying depleted uranium around like confetti at a weddingJan 23 20:00
DaemonFCplus what do they eat when they've killed everything on the planet?Jan 23 20:00
DaemonFCI mean, I know they can go dormant, but....Jan 23 20:00
FurnaceBoy 23 20:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / Toby Thain: #Bush père et fils have le ... .::. Size~: 10.71 KBJan 23 20:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: try to concentrate on real problemsJan 23 20:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard cheersJan 23 20:02
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: The way it works is. The government has the troops on the ground firing this kind of ammunition (and things like white phosphorous), without knowing what it is they're being exposed to.Jan 23 20:02
DaemonFCThen the government abandons them years later when they are sick and disabled from the exposure.Jan 23 20:03
DaemonFCgives them experimental anthrax vaccinesJan 23 20:03
DaemonFCall kinds of shitJan 23 20:03
DaemonFCthen the problem is made worse by the fact that you can only sue the (federal) government if the government consents to being suedJan 23 20:04
DaemonFCthey can dismiss your suit for any number of reasons, their favorite is "state secrets"Jan 23 20:04
schestowitzDaemonFC: nukes tooJan 23 20:04
schestowitzNuclear testing sitesJan 23 20:05
DaemonFCObama is using that excuse as much as Bush wasJan 23 20:05
schestowitzWhere they have them exposed to fallout and stuffJan 23 20:05
schestowitzBut it's OKJan 23 20:05
schestowitzCause the troops are poor anywayJan 23 20:05
schestowitzSome will end up in prison and thus be incapable of suing the govt..Jan 23 20:05
DaemonFCif they weren't poor, they wouldn't join upJan 23 20:05
DaemonFCno rich people enlistJan 23 20:06
schestowitzThere's some good footage of how they exposed soldiers to nuclear debris at nuclear testing sites some decades agoJan 23 20:06
DaemonFCrich people are never in the military unless it's as some kind of an officer who will never be shot atJan 23 20:06
schestowitzThere are also experiments like this being done on children when they needed to test new methodsJan 23 20:06
schestowitzRadiationJan 23 20:06
schestowitzMany kids dieddJan 23 20:06
schestowitzBut they test it on "lesser" kidsJan 23 20:06
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I don't care about the troops. What about the civilians whose country it is, whose futures are tied to these now-toxic and useless tracts of land?Jan 23 20:06
schestowitzUsually minorities or people in another countryJan 23 20:06
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: "Someone said 'alien', and Vasquez thought they meant illegal alien signed up!"Jan 23 20:07
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 20:07
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: let's spray Maryland with DU and see how you fucks like itJan 23 20:07
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: Monsanto poisoned some areas in south USAJan 23 20:07
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: of courseJan 23 20:07
schestowitzLike DuPontJan 23 20:07
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: half of it is poisoned anyway. perchlorate. MTR. yadda yaddaJan 23 20:08
schestowitzAnd many black people still get cancerJan 23 20:08
schestowitzMaybe got cancer as kidsJan 23 20:08
DaemonFCschestowitz: I would never live in the southJan 23 20:08
schestowitzMonsanto paid them about $800ml in settlementJan 23 20:08
schestowitzIt was mini moneyJan 23 20:08
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's hardly a solution for those WHO DOJan 23 20:08
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it's not *all about you*Jan 23 20:08
schestowitzGiven what they would make in profit as a result in years to comeJan 23 20:08
schestowitzThey settled cheaply with poor people in current generationJan 23 20:08
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the microsoft strategyJan 23 20:08
schestowitzBut what about the future generation that will suffer too?Jan 23 20:08
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: ad infinitumJan 23 20:09
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: how the heck are we going to undo GMO? :/Jan 23 20:09
schestowitzANd those areas of the US are no longer inhabitable because of toxinsJan 23 20:09
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Of course not, but the stereotypical southerner that isn't well educated is not a stereotype once you get down to ArkansasJan 23 20:09
DaemonFCB-)Jan 23 20:09
DaemonFCAlabamaJan 23 20:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I've spent enough time in GAJan 23 20:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and I'm not very impressed with what I see outta FL either.Jan 23 20:09
DaemonFCGeorgia is a lot better off than AlabamaJan 23 20:09
DaemonFCor ArkansasJan 23 20:09
FurnaceBoyor LAJan 23 20:10
FurnaceBoyLousiana*Jan 23 20:10
FurnaceBoyLouisiana*Jan 23 20:10
FurnaceBoywelp. must workJan 23 20:10
*FurnaceBoy ( has left #boycottnovell ("WeeChat")Jan 23 20:10
schestowitzDaemonFC: 23 20:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: I'm glad that Munir Hussain has been released - Big Brother Watch .::. Size~: 41.02 KBJan 23 20:13
rnbhelloJan 23 20:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Putting Fedora 12 back on one of my rigs...downloading over 387 updates!Jan 23 20:14
DaemonFCthe feds keep punishing the southern states with crap like the Voting Rights ActJan 23 20:14
DaemonFConly 9 states have to comply with itJan 23 20:15
rnbmmmJan 23 20:15
rnbthe US sprays that poison all over farmers in colombiaJan 23 20:15
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's what you get there I guessJan 23 20:15
rnbright now. today..Jan 23 20:15
DaemonFCnow laws to defend homeowners from burglars Jan 23 20:16
DaemonFCall the rights immediately go to the criminalJan 23 20:16
rnb*socialist* farmers, that isJan 23 20:16
rnbthe ones growing coca for uribe's friends are protected by the US militaryJan 23 20:16
DaemonFChere, it's kind of the opposite, if someone breaks into my home and I believe they're there to cause me harm, I can shoot and kill them, and haven't committed a crimeJan 23 20:17
DaemonFCbut their family can sue meJan 23 20:17
rnbDaemonFC: actually, there are cases where it is a crime, i believeJan 23 20:17
DaemonFCrnb: If you don't have good reason to believe they're threatening youJan 23 20:17
DaemonFCjust repeat after meJan 23 20:17
DaemonFC"It was dark and I thought they had a weapon"Jan 23 20:18
DaemonFCI don't think there's going to be a jury that sides against youJan 23 20:18
DaemonFCthey're all thinking "What would I do?"Jan 23 20:18
DaemonFCand coming to the conclusion "Shoot them"Jan 23 20:19
DaemonFCso it's very rare to be brought up on charges for defending your home, and even if you are, it will be something like involuntary manslaughterJan 23 20:19
rnbit dependsJan 23 20:20
rnba jury wont be sympathetic if you blow the head off of a 12-year-oldJan 23 20:21
rnb(and rightly so, i'd say)Jan 23 20:21
DaemonFCIndiana law provides for Involuntary Manslaughter for killing someone that is attempting to commit a felonyJan 23 20:21
DaemonFCand that's only if the killing was only partially justifiedJan 23 20:21
DaemonFCthe state can't charge you with murder if you shot and killed a person who was committing a felonyJan 23 20:21
DaemonFCbut if they were going to cause you harm, they don't bring charges usuallyJan 23 20:22
rnbi agree with that, with the caveat that i'd say the US criminal justic system is objectively impossible to defend as remotely fairJan 23 20:22
DaemonFCso rnb, the state of Indiana says that if I shoot and kill you while you are stealing my car, it's Involuntary ManslaughterJan 23 20:23
DaemonFCIf you're coming at me with a weapon, there won't be any charges against meJan 23 20:23
schestowitzrnb: yes, they spray not just with chemicalsJan 23 20:23
rnbschestowitz: what else is there to spray?Jan 23 20:23
schestowitz[20:21] <DaemonFC> Indiana law provides for Involuntary Manslaughter for killing someone that is attempting to commit a felonyJan 23 20:24
DaemonFCInvoluntary Manslaughter is a Class C FelonyJan 23 20:24
rnboh, i see.. bulletsJan 23 20:24
schestowitzI bet DaemonFOX goes hunting for people who intend to commit crimeJan 23 20:24
DaemonFCwith a maximum of 10 years in prisonJan 23 20:24
schestowitzThis way he can shoot them and walk away freelyJan 23 20:24
rnbhahaJan 23 20:25
rnbunfortunately, i certainly know people who have that kind of mentalityJan 23 20:25
schestowitzThat's why people join the army sometuimesJan 23 20:25
MikeyCyupJan 23 20:25
schestowitzThey get to blow off many people without accountabilityJan 23 20:25
rnbthey'd love nothing better than to have someone break into their house so they can use their gunJan 23 20:25
schestowitzIn the police, you can bully people and your colleagues cover upJan 23 20:25
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm not going to risk 10 years in prison for shooting someone, I'm just saying that if they were stealing my car, I'd never get more than 10 years for itJan 23 20:25
DaemonFCand half of that would be suspendedJan 23 20:26
DaemonFCso no more than 5 yearsJan 23 20:26
rnbthat's if you kill someoneJan 23 20:26
DaemonFCkilling someone who is stealing your car is probably 5 years served of a 10 year sentenceJan 23 20:26
DaemonFCcould be less than that, but not moreJan 23 20:26
schestowitzI bet you bought the "trespassers will be shot" bumper stick, DaemonFOXJan 23 20:27
rnba group i know in ohio trains people in firearms and, against conventional wisdom, teaches you to shoot for legs or other non-fatal spotsJan 23 20:27
DaemonFCschestowitz: No, that sets up intentJan 23 20:27
rnbalmost every firearms trainer instructs you that if you're going to shoot, shoot to killJan 23 20:27
DaemonFCAs stupid as the "If you can read this, I can hit my brakes and sue you" stickersJan 23 20:27
rnbwhich is fkn stupidJan 23 20:27
DaemonFCrnb: I agreeJan 23 20:27
DaemonFCwith the instructorsJan 23 20:27
DaemonFCif you have to take them down, shoot to killJan 23 20:28
rnbthats why all the police shootings are like "they shot him 45 times!!!!" but ... that's just standard trainingJan 23 20:28
schestowitzDaemonFOX tends to lead discussions here into armsJan 23 20:28
DaemonFCthen it's your word vs. theirsJan 23 20:28
rnbDaemonFC: that's absurdJan 23 20:28
DaemonFCno, try to hit them twice if you canJan 23 20:28
DaemonFCbut never in the back ;)Jan 23 20:28
rnbDaemonFC: i dont know if you've ever seen someone shot to death?Jan 23 20:28
rnbDaemonFC: it certainly changed my perspective to see itJan 23 20:29
schestowitzKennedyJan 23 20:29
DaemonFCgood for youJan 23 20:29
rnbi mean.. in personJan 23 20:29
schestowitzDaemonFC never saw itJan 23 20:29
schestowitzHe never left his continentJan 23 20:29
rnbDaemonFC: i think you would have a different perspectiveJan 23 20:29
schestowitzDaemonFOX saw it in FOXJan 23 20:30
rnbDaemonFC: to see someone full of life and then, suddenly, totally absent of lifeJan 23 20:30
DaemonFCwell, apparently I have no right to self defense in the UKJan 23 20:30
rnbDaemonFC: it is something elseJan 23 20:30
schestowitz 23 20:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: USGS claims Venezuela sits on Earths largest oil reserves |  Raw Story .::. Size~: 30.63 KBJan 23 20:30
rnbschestowitz: excellent :)Jan 23 20:30
DaemonFCI don't want to be maliciously attacked by the UK legal system when someone tries to mug me and I fend them offJan 23 20:30
rnbschestowitz: as i understand it, though, a lot of is the kind of oil that's harder to processJan 23 20:31
DaemonFCthe police should treat me as their victim, not the other way aroundJan 23 20:31
rnbschestowitz: i forget the term right nowJan 23 20:31
rnbDaemonFC: where do you live?Jan 23 20:31
DaemonFCIndiana, USAJan 23 20:31
rnboh, hell.. to paraphrase the godfather, we're practically paisans!Jan 23 20:32
DaemonFCuhhhhm.....kJan 23 20:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I'm really starting to like this Fusion theme for #Drupal after I figured out the CSS is blank, ready to be themedJan 23 20:32
rnbexcept i've lived in SF most of my adult lifeJan 23 20:32
DaemonFCdoes that mean that you're gonna make me an offer I can't refuse?Jan 23 20:32
rnbDaemonFC: what does 'FC' stand for?Jan 23 20:33
MikeyCFootball Club?Jan 23 20:33
DaemonFCnopeJan 23 20:33
rnbthats what i thoughtJan 23 20:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] via @johnderosa RT @marjieN: "A billion here, a billion there, sooner or later it adds up to real LAW." <-- fixed that for ya! #gop #fraudJan 23 20:33
MikeyCFoxtrot Charlie?Jan 23 20:34
_goblinI asked that a while ago....never got an answer.....Jan 23 20:34
DaemonFCFoxtrot Uniform Charlie KiloJan 23 20:34
DaemonFC:PJan 23 20:34
*MikeyC has quit ("Page closed")Jan 23 20:34
DaemonFCheheheJan 23 20:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@wesbenterprise what makes you think #microsoft is a business? you seem very unfamiliar with their history and methodsJan 23 20:34
schestowitz 23 20:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: TRANSCRIPT: George Stephanopoulos' Exclusive Interview with President Obama - George's Bottom Line .::. Size~: 111.47 KBJan 23 20:34
schestowitz 23 20:34
DaemonFC 23 20:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Relief tents, Haiti, and temporary shelter Boing Boing .::. Size~: 41.49 KBJan 23 20:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lala Song Player - Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo by Bloodhound Gang .::. Size~: 23.11 KBJan 23 20:35
rnbDaemonFC: you ever lived somewhere else?Jan 23 20:35
DaemonFCOhioJan 23 20:36
rnb!Jan 23 20:36
rnbwhat part?Jan 23 20:36
DaemonFCDaytonJan 23 20:36
rnboh manJan 23 20:36
rnbcertainly East DaytonJan 23 20:36
rnbi lived in dayton for a yearJan 23 20:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] One side-effect of #Apple's small market share is that the other 90% know stuff-all about it and its products, yet still blather about themJan 23 20:36
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Jan 23 20:36
rnbwhat a fkn shitholeJan 23 20:36
DaemonFCI went to use the library there and their setup was Netscape 4 on Windows NT 4Jan 23 20:36
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 20:36
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rnb(i can say that because i'm from ohio, but nobody else can)Jan 23 20:37
DaemonFCthis was 2002Jan 23 20:37
rnbDaemonFC: well, it's incredible dayton even has a library to begin withJan 23 20:37
DaemonFCthey have branches tooJan 23 20:37
DaemonFC:DJan 23 20:37
rnbbut they have more VFWsJan 23 20:37
DaemonFCand a Golden Corral not far from there I wasJan 23 20:38
DaemonFCyes, I knowJan 23 20:38
rnbdayton has a huge black population but it is 100% segregatedJan 23 20:38
DaemonFCand I interned at the VA hospitalJan 23 20:38
rnbwhite people live in East DaytonJan 23 20:38
rnbblack people live in West DaytonJan 23 20:38
rnband that's thatJan 23 20:38
DaemonFCNow you can call me hardcoreJan 23 20:38
rnbyou know Kettering?Jan 23 20:39
DaemonFCKettering?Jan 23 20:39
rnbi saw something in Kettering i've never seen anywhere elseJan 23 20:39
rnbit's a "suburb" of DaytonJan 23 20:39
DaemonFCI only lived there for like a bit longer than a yearJan 23 20:40
rnbanyway, the Aryan Nation held a protest in Kettering, at their "City Hall" which was a shitty building in a residential neighborhoodJan 23 20:40
DaemonFCniceJan 23 20:40
rnband so the police were there to keep the counter-protesters away from the Aryan Nation peopleJan 23 20:40
DaemonFCand the police can't break it upJan 23 20:40
rnb(because they had a permit, free speech, etc)Jan 23 20:40
rnbanywayJan 23 20:40
DaemonFCoh? no police even watching itJan 23 20:40
DaemonFCthis is not going to end wellJan 23 20:41
rnbso, Anti-Racist Action from columbus and some of the liberal, super-expensive private colleges came to counter-protestJan 23 20:41
rnbliterally, people from the nearby residential neighborhood came out of their houses, some with baseball batsJan 23 20:42
rnbto come and attack the counter-protestersJan 23 20:42
rnbthe police didnt do anythingJan 23 20:42
DaemonFCnot the neo-Nazis?Jan 23 20:42
*FurnaceBoy ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 20:42
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: site is down from here (BN)Jan 23 20:42
rnbjust a bunch of rich college kids got their asses kicked by the local neighborhood peopleJan 23 20:42
FurnaceBoyrnb: olaJan 23 20:42
FurnaceBoyrnb: see my SW link above?Jan 23 20:42
DaemonFClmaoJan 23 20:43
rnbno, the Aryan Nation people were pretty far away, way behind the police lineJan 23 20:43
DaemonFCthat would normally be funnyJan 23 20:43
rnbFurnaceBoy: bom dia, senhorJan 23 20:43
FurnaceBoyrnb: para voce tbJan 23 20:43
*FurnaceBoy really gotta learn how to type accents on this linux pcJan 23 20:43
rnbyeah, well, i've never seen a crowd spontaneously form to brutally attack people counter-protesting the Aryan NationJan 23 20:43
rnbbut that's kettering for youJan 23 20:43
FurnaceBoyanyone else can hit BN site ? 23 20:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 122.18 KBJan 23 20:43
rnbthat movie ... Gummo ... that explains Dayton & surrounding areas better than anything elseJan 23 20:44
rnbi cannot hit www.boycottnovell.comJan 23 20:45
DaemonFCOhio is pretty far rightJan 23 20:45
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: what's up with site?Jan 23 20:45
rnbDaemonFC: actually, notJan 23 20:45
rnbDaemonFC: especially NE Ohio, it was a Democratic stronghold for yearsJan 23 20:45
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: are your mirrors outside US?Jan 23 20:45
rnbDaemonFC: because of the labor unionsJan 23 20:45
rnbDaemonFC: in fact, there is a strong socialist tradition in OhioJan 23 20:45
rnbDaemonFC: cleveland still has one of the few communist bookstores in the USJan 23 20:46
DaemonFCrnb: The Republicans in Indiana keep pushing to amend the state Constitution with anything on their agendaJan 23 20:46
DaemonFCtrying to make it almost impossible to overturnJan 23 20:46
rnbhowever, since the Democrats screwed their working class base, ohio has become more and more up for grabsJan 23 20:46
DaemonFCit's scary reallyJan 23 20:46
rnbbill clinton signing NAFTA into law was kind of the last straw for ohio's devotion to the democratic partyJan 23 20:47
DaemonFCthey're trying to use our constitution for everything that should be a statuteJan 23 20:47
DaemonFCthey know they're going to get their asses kicked after we redistrictJan 23 20:47
DaemonFCso they're trying to throw everything at the wall right nowJan 23 20:47
schestowitztessier__: pingJan 23 20:47
DaemonFCthe congressional districts are going to probably be "un-gerrymandered" and then the elections could go any wayJan 23 20:48
DaemonFCwhich is how it should be anywayJan 23 20:48
schestowitzI restarted apacheJan 23 20:49
schestowitzOr maybe tessier__ did somethingJan 23 20:49
DaemonFCthat's probably not good news for all the Democrats in the federal congress thoughJan 23 20:49
*rnb can hit nowJan 23 20:49
DaemonFCat least not that muslim that got elected to represent IndianapolisJan 23 20:49
DaemonFChe'll definitely be gone by 2012Jan 23 20:49
rnbFurnaceBoy: sorry, SW link above?Jan 23 20:49
schestowitzIt was down for 15 minutesJan 23 20:50
FurnaceBoyrnb: yesJan 23 20:50
rnbFurnaceBoy: i didntJan 23 20:50
schestowitzI'll wait for tessier__ who probably has diagnosisJan 23 20:50
DaemonFChe got elected cause his district happens to be majority black muslims living in that part of IndianapolisJan 23 20:50
rnbFurnaceBoy: what's SW?Jan 23 20:50
DaemonFCif they expand his district, he will be voted outJan 23 20:50
schestowitz 23 20:50
FurnaceBoyrnb: FurnaceBoy | speaking of Socialist Worker. 23 20:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Web2.0rhea infects International Space Station • The Register .::. Size~: 24.15 KBJan 23 20:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: John Pilger | .::. Size~: 26.64 KBJan 23 20:50
schestowitzanti-Chavez? True or false (that he said it)? 23 20:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Venezuelan president: US tectonic weapon caused Haiti quake Boing Boing .::. Size~: 188.01 KBJan 23 20:51
schestowitzThis stuff keeps spreadingJan 23 20:51
schestowitzMaybe someone told this to Hugo, I don't think he understands tectonic platesJan 23 20:51
rnbFurnaceBoy: nice.. i try not to be sectarian, but i'm not a big fan of the ISOJan 23 20:51
rnbomgJan 23 20:51
rnbHE DIDNT SAY THATJan 23 20:51
DaemonFCAndre Carson is is name, and ever since he got elected, he's been trying to steal federal money to "beautify" an area around his mosque Jan 23 20:51
DaemonFCwhat a coincidenceJan 23 20:51
FurnaceBoyrnb: I was pointing out the Pilger column onlyJan 23 20:51
FurnaceBoyrnb: at least he's 100% kosher :PJan 23 20:52
schestowitzI wonder if this is true: 23 20:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  China slams Clinton's call for Internet freedom .::. Size~: 129.36 KBJan 23 20:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: yes I read thatJan 23 20:52
rnb*one* media outlet in venezuela published a story ABOUT A REPORT OUT OF RUSSIA that speculatd about the "Earthquake Weapon"Jan 23 20:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: seems plausible yesJan 23 20:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: China govt is a sensitive little bitchJan 23 20:52
rnband even THEY took it off their siteJan 23 20:52
schestowitzHehJan 23 20:52
rnbsomehow, that sequence of events became "CHAVEZ CLAIMS US USED EARTHQUAKE RAY AGAINST HAITI"Jan 23 20:52
schestowitzBut it's good way to daeminse EVIL EVIL devil HugeJan 23 20:53
FurnaceBoyyes.Jan 23 20:53
schestowitzHe has stuff near his 'tectonics'Jan 23 20:53
schestowitz*HugoJan 23 20:53
FurnaceBoyvery convenient talking point to avoid discussing the real ways US is attacking Haiti (and everyone else)Jan 23 20:53
FurnaceBoysuch exaggerations couldn't play better into the right's handsJan 23 20:53
schestowitzSo it's not a true story, but it's a USEFUL story, so they air the distortion, I guessJan 23 20:53
rnbit also drives me crazy when he is referred to as "paranoid about the US"Jan 23 20:54
FurnaceBoylike Ahmadinejad (mis)quotesJan 23 20:54
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: rightJan 23 20:54
rnbof course, the US did back a plan to kidnap him at gunpoint and supported a coup d'etat against himJan 23 20:54
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: and it's working , as usual.Jan 23 20:54
rnbBUT HEY! chavez is the one who's paranoidJan 23 20:54
FurnaceBoyrnb: exactlyJan 23 20:54
schestowitzSee tge comments in BoingBoingJan 23 20:54
schestowitzPeople in the West hate HugoJan 23 20:54
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I doubt I would want toJan 23 20:54
schestowitzIt's like a bunch of Fox News broadcasters talking about ObamaJan 23 20:54
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I stopped following XeniJan 23 20:54
rnbschestowitz: the people in power are SCARED TO DEATH of hugoJan 23 20:55
rnbschestowitz: as well they should beJan 23 20:55
FurnaceBoyrnb: the FUD is effectiveJan 23 20:55
schestowitz FOX NEWS- LIES, LIES, LIES --See For Yourself (part 1 of 2)Jan 23 20:55
rnbFurnaceBoy: i know :(Jan 23 20:55
FurnaceBoyBoingBoing *should* know better than to spread right wing FUD.Jan 23 20:55
schestowitzrnb: he's infectious :-)Jan 23 20:55
FurnaceBoyso there's another one this week.Jan 23 20:55
rnbthat story is on boingboing?!Jan 23 20:56
FurnaceBoy--HuffPost --BoingBoingJan 23 20:56
FurnaceBoyrnb: exactlyJan 23 20:56
schestowitzIndependence and democracy are OK as long as they are dependent on the rulers of the world and their democraciesJan 23 20:56
FurnaceBoyrnb: Xeni is not that smart.Jan 23 20:56
FurnaceBoyrnb: I followed him for a whileJan 23 20:56
schestowitzXeni... I didn't see enough from him yetJan 23 20:56
FurnaceBoyor rather., he may be smart, but he's confusedJan 23 20:56
schestowitzNo prior smoking gun thoughJan 23 20:57
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: follow on twitter, you'll see what i meanJan 23 20:57
schestowitzIn read BB cause of CoryJan 23 20:57
rnbi dont see it ... i see the HAARP link but it doesnt mention the chavez/earthquake gun storyJan 23 20:58
rnbor maybe i'm missing itJan 23 20:58
rnbjon stewart / daily show has also ridiculed chavezJan 23 20:58
rnbthat's our "left-wing" for youJan 23 20:58
rnbchavez just kicks ass and says things that every other leader THINKS but is too afraid to sayJan 23 20:59
rnbor rather, lacks the support chavez does to be able to say itJan 23 20:59
rnbmy favorite chavez attack ever:Jan 23 21:00
rnb 23 21:00
rnbhaha, i laugh every time i see that, it never gets old :)Jan 23 21:00
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: tessier tessier__ site's backJan 23 21:02
rnbthis is the original source of that chavez farce:Jan 23 21:09
rnb 23 21:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: El arma secreta para provocar terremotos - Internacional - Internacional - .::. Size~: 46.73 KBJan 23 21:09
rnbnote that they say "the Government of Venezuela" said this or thatJan 23 21:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Takes a Hit at #Linux with More #FAT Patents; #McKool et al Assist Some More Patent Trolling 23 21:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Takes a Hit at Linux with More FAT Patents; John Ward, John Olivo, and McKool Assist Some More Patent Trolling | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 115.5 KBJan 23 21:09
rnbbecause they have taken a great liberty, which is presuming that an independent, pro-chavez media outlet = government of venezuela = chavez himselfJan 23 21:10
rnband even THAT media outlet only reported on a report that came out of russia about earthquake weaponsJan 23 21:10
rnbAND they even removed that story -- fox news had to link to the google cache of itJan 23 21:11
FurnaceBoy 23 21:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Scandal: Albert Edwards Alleges Central Banks Were Complicit In Robbing The Middle Classes | zero hedge .::. Size~: 314.7 KBJan 23 21:11
rnb->,2933,583588,00.htmlJan 23 21:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Hugo Chavez Mouthpiece Says U.S. Hit Haiti With 'Earthquake Weapon' - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - .::. Size~: 47.33 KBJan 23 21:12
rnb"The story has since been taken down from the Venezuelan Web site, but a Google cache of the charges remains intact."Jan 23 21:13
FurnaceBoylolJan 23 21:13
rnb"Citing an alleged report from Russia's Northern Fleet, the Venezuelan strongman's state mouthpiece ViVe TV shot out a press release [...]"Jan 23 21:13
FurnaceBoyfox - lower than a snake's asshole, or however it goes.Jan 23 21:13
FurnaceBoyimagine if Chavez had sent in military to take over the airport, like US did.Jan 23 21:14
FurnaceBoyand started turning aid awayJan 23 21:14
rnband their stupid google cache IS expired :PJan 23 21:14
rnbchavez offered immediate aid for katrinaJan 23 21:14
FurnaceBoynaturally. and most foreign aid was ignored in that situationJan 23 21:14
rnband the US wouldnt allow them to do itJan 23 21:14
rnbcuba also offered immediate aidJan 23 21:14
FurnaceBoythey generally refuse foreign aid.Jan 23 21:15
rnbthey were also deniedJan 23 21:15
FurnaceBoyyes.Jan 23 21:15
rnbmeanwhile, "brownie" dicked around for how many days?Jan 23 21:15
FurnaceBoywould have interfered with their own military invasion of NOLAJan 23 21:15
rnboh my godJan 23 21:15
FurnaceBoyit was a scandalJan 23 21:15
rnbi saw this obscene report by geraldo rivereaJan 23 21:15
rnb*riveraJan 23 21:15
rnbhe was in haiti, reporting from the militarized airportJan 23 21:15
rnbapparently he took a "tour" of the cityJan 23 21:16
FurnaceBoyah, they still "embed" reporters.Jan 23 21:16
FurnaceBoynice to know.Jan 23 21:16
rnband while he did, police were responded to people who poking around a demolished citibankJan 23 21:16
FurnaceBoysorry, "reporters".Jan 23 21:16
rnb*respondingJan 23 21:16
DaemonFCThe Republicans in Texas are trying to get rid of Rick Perry in the primariesJan 23 21:17
rnbanyway, this super-thin, scrawny black guy came into the camera's view and had his hands up, because 3 soldiers were pointing his guns at himJan 23 21:17
DaemonFChe's become too much of an embarassmentJan 23 21:17
rnband geraldo asked his translator to ask him what was going onJan 23 21:17
rnbso the translator did and the guy said that he was walking by, and saw some people around the bank, but that he wasnt stealing anythingJan 23 21:17
rnband geraldo fucking said, "yeah, that's what they all say"Jan 23 21:17
rnband that was the full report.Jan 23 21:17
DaemonFCthey want a kinder, gentler Texas governor who just hates gays and blacks, not one who claims Texas can secede from the unionJan 23 21:18
DaemonFCB-)Jan 23 21:18
FurnaceBoyrnb: :(Jan 23 21:18
rnbugh, geraldo had no idea what was going onJan 23 21:19
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: We should give Texas to CanadaJan 23 21:19
rnbhow dare he say thatJan 23 21:19
DaemonFCnice counterbalance for youJan 23 21:19
FurnaceBoyrnb: what would Geraldo know about the way the underprivileged 99.999% of the world lives?Jan 23 21:19
FurnaceBoyrnb: especially after such a disaster. what a piece of shit Jan 23 21:19
rnbit was just completely obscene, the way he said it was so derisiveJan 23 21:19
FurnaceBoyyes.Jan 23 21:19
FurnaceBoyworse than obsceneJan 23 21:19
FurnaceBoyrnb: but it's done for a purposeJan 23 21:20
rnbi have to be honest, it sort of choked me up for a second, and then i got angryJan 23 21:20
DaemonFCGeraldo? Does anyone take him seriously after the John Dillinger thing?Jan 23 21:20
FurnaceBoyrnb: so that the middle class can reinforce their own sense of racial entitlement, and reinforce stereotypes for strategic political reasons; PRECISELY what Katrina was for.Jan 23 21:20
rnbfor katrina OR haiti or whatever, how dare any of these people talk about "looters" ?Jan 23 21:20
FurnaceBoyrnb: rightJan 23 21:21
rnbLOOT AWAYJan 23 21:21
FurnaceBoyrnb: it's done very deliberatelyJan 23 21:21
rnbi am 100% PRO-LOOTERJan 23 21:21
FurnaceBoyrnb: it's a strategic remark to cement politically expedient and racial superiority positionsJan 23 21:21
DaemonFChehJan 23 21:21
rnbso much of the western coverage was about "looters"Jan 23 21:21
FurnaceBoyrnb: of course. FUD.Jan 23 21:21
rnbFurnaceBoy: absolutelyJan 23 21:21
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Did you see them taking anything they needed?Jan 23 21:21
FurnaceBoyrnb: ah, it's to justify invading by military forceJan 23 21:21
DaemonFCFood, diapers, water?Jan 23 21:22
rnbFurnaceBoy: it isJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCanything they needed?Jan 23 21:22
DaemonFCclothes?Jan 23 21:22
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: shut up for onceJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCthey smashed and grabbed and took advantage of the lawlessnessJan 23 21:22
rnbFurnaceBoy: not only that, but if an area doesnt meet certain security standards, aid was not allowed to be delivered thereJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCto steal big screen TVsJan 23 21:22
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: absolute bullshitJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCand computersJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCand bikesJan 23 21:22
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I've heard educated, wealthy americans tell me that crime is "caused by black people".Jan 23 21:22
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: stick that where the sun don'tJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCthere was not one of those looters that took anything they neededJan 23 21:22
rnbDaemonFC: LOOT ANYTHINGJan 23 21:22
DaemonFCwatch the videoJan 23 21:22
rnbLOOT STEREOSJan 23 21:23
DaemonFCwatch them run off with stereosJan 23 21:23
DaemonFCwatch the cops that steal tons of shoesJan 23 21:23
rnbto quote Mr. Ice Cube regarding the rodney king riots:Jan 23 21:23
DaemonFCrnb: lolJan 23 21:23
rnbend of quoteJan 23 21:23
rnbback to me: LOOT EVERYTHING, TAKE IT ALLJan 23 21:23
rnbyes, you need CLOTHESJan 23 21:24
rnbyes, you need FOODJan 23 21:24
rnbyes, you need MEDICINEJan 23 21:24
rnbbut guess what? i'm this cruel, repulsive capitalist system, you also NEED MONEYJan 23 21:24
rnbit is something you NEED for SURVIVALJan 23 21:24
rnbso, my message to disaster victims: LOOT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, AS FAST AS YOU CANJan 23 21:24
DaemonFCYeah, I would have my shotgun on my back, my pistol in my shoulder holster a big knife in a holster on my beltJan 23 21:24
DaemonFCand I would go to Walmart :)Jan 23 21:24
rnbDaemonFC: of course you would Jan 23 21:25
rnband so would everyone else who sits in comfortable tv studios bitching about "looters"Jan 23 21:25
DaemonFC*Click Click* Drop it......I saw it firstJan 23 21:25
rnbok, sorry, rant over.Jan 23 21:25
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 21:25
rnboops, "in this...", not "i'm this..."Jan 23 21:26
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: would you take anything you don't NEED?Jan 23 21:26
DaemonFCyeah, the shotgun might be an effective comeback to the black people with Tec-9'sJan 23 21:27
DaemonFCto return fire with that isJan 23 21:27
rnbFurnaceBoy: you know they had blackwater thugs *deputized* during katrina?Jan 23 21:27
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: in your case, i hope not.Jan 23 21:27
FurnaceBoyrnb: not surprisedJan 23 21:27
rnbFurnaceBoy: it's true.. also, the national guard was stationed on a bridge that permitted easy exit from the disaster zoneJan 23 21:27
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: I'd get a pallet and make one of the other looters pull it aroundJan 23 21:27
DaemonFCgrabbing everything I needed/wantedJan 23 21:28
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: your credibility is gone now. Jan 23 21:28
rnbFurnaceBoy: they literally turned people away at gunpoint, trapping them in the disaster areaJan 23 21:28
rnbFurnaceBoy: if you havent seen Spike Lee's movie about Katrina, i highly recommend itJan 23 21:28
DaemonFCI'd have some light body armor onJan 23 21:28
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 21:28
rnbFurnaceBoy: it is a great work of artJan 23 21:28
FurnaceBoyrnb: I didn't realise there was a truthful account of Katrina in the mainstreamJan 23 21:28
FurnaceBoyrnb: that's quite.. incendiary isn't it?Jan 23 21:29
rnbFurnaceBoy: definitely check out the spike lee movie, it's so goodJan 23 21:29
rnbwhat's incendiary?Jan 23 21:29
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: My first stop would be to the car dealership, to get an F-450 to haul my takeJan 23 21:29
rnbthe movie?Jan 23 21:29
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Actually, a better idea.......Jan 23 21:30
DaemonFCshoot the lock off the back receiving doorJan 23 21:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: why do you think your fantasies interest us...Jan 23 21:30
DaemonFCtake groceries and stuff from thereJan 23 21:31
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: try to stick to realityJan 23 21:31
Omar87_Goblin: pingJan 23 21:31
DaemonFCthe merchandise in the front of the store should slow them downJan 23 21:31
DaemonFClike locustsJan 23 21:31
*FurnaceBoy gives upJan 23 21:32
rnbit's called "When the Levees Broke", produced by HBOJan 23 21:32
rnbA Requiem in Four ActsJan 23 21:33
DaemonFCrun up to the entrances from the front of the store and pull the security screens shutJan 23 21:33
DaemonFCthen you can take what you want, that should hold them for a whileJan 23 21:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: write a fantasy book, get it out of your system.Jan 23 21:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the rest of us will worry about what happens in the real worldJan 23 21:34
DaemonFCmmhmJan 23 21:34
DaemonFCit's like Katrina is Dawn of the Dead but they're not zombiesJan 23 21:35
DaemonFCthey just come to where they liked to shopJan 23 21:35
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 21:35
rnbDaemonFC: you're honestly AGAINST looting in a situation like that?Jan 23 21:35
rnbDaemonFC: you think it's some horrible thing to do, given the circumstances?Jan 23 21:36
DaemonFCrnb: No, I'm FOR getting everything I want before law is restoredJan 23 21:36
DaemonFCB-)Jan 23 21:36
rnbseriously, i'm curiousJan 23 21:36
rnbyou think that protecting businesses with armed thugs is a higher priority than getting humanitarian aid to people?Jan 23 21:37
DaemonFCI just gave you my answer, I'd take everything I could get which couldn't be traced, and get home with itJan 23 21:37
DaemonFCbefore law was restoredJan 23 21:37
rnbsee? DaemonFC isnt inhuman, FurnaceBoy Jan 23 21:37
DaemonFCby that time the system would be too swamped to even try to figure out what I didJan 23 21:37
rnbFurnaceBoy: but i guess you know him better than me :)Jan 23 21:37
DaemonFCof course I'm a humanitarianJan 23 21:37
DaemonFCI am human and I strongly support my survivalJan 23 21:38
rnbthe big "looting scene" i saw from haiti was a group of 4 guys standing on top of a building, throwing stuff down to a crowd of people belowJan 23 21:39
rnband the police come and break it all upJan 23 21:39
DaemonFCif a disaster happened, and someone was going to make it out alive and well and with lots of bling, I would try to make sure it was meJan 23 21:39
rnbi didnt really see any actual footage of anything else Jan 23 21:39
rnbDaemonFC: ... and anyone you could help along the way, right?Jan 23 21:40
DaemonFCyeahJan 23 21:40
DaemonFCrnb: There's actually a National Guard armory near here that's barely even staffedJan 23 21:40
rnbspike lee's movie tells the story of this black guy and his brother who were trying to get from one place to anotherJan 23 21:40
DaemonFCI'd probably go trade up on my armament before rolling outJan 23 21:40
rnband because of all the looting stories on the TV, apparently some white guy holed up in his house blasted him in the back with a shotgunJan 23 21:41
FurnaceBoyinteresting stats. 47% of toronto's population born outside canada.Jan 23 21:41
rnbassuming that he was a "looter"Jan 23 21:41
FurnaceBoyactually 50%; 47% are part of "visible minorities"Jan 23 21:41
DaemonFCI would loot the Guard armory first if possibleJan 23 21:41
DaemonFCI would need someone on the .50 caliber machine gun on backJan 23 21:41
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: your fantasies really aren't of interest to me. anyone else?Jan 23 21:41
DaemonFCrnb: Come with me if you want to liveJan 23 21:42
*FurnaceBoy fingers /ignoreJan 23 21:42
DaemonFC:PJan 23 21:42
rnbFurnaceBoy: the details are getting oldJan 23 21:42
FurnaceBoyrnb: it's pure self-indulgence. he gets off on these thoughts.Jan 23 21:42
DaemonFCit's like a bad movie whenever a disaster happensJan 23 21:42
FurnaceBoyrnb: dreaming about social collapseJan 23 21:42
FurnaceBoyrnb: no wonder his country *is* collapsingJan 23 21:42
DaemonFCyou know exactly what's going to happenJan 23 21:42
rnband, really, you would probably be crying your eyes out, scared to death, on your roof with a sign that says "COME AND HELP ME PLEASE"Jan 23 21:42
DaemonFCmaybe notJan 23 21:43
FurnaceBoyrnb: if the military saw a weapon on him, he'd be deader than JFK.Jan 23 21:43
FurnaceBoyrnb: he doesn't gete itJan 23 21:43
DaemonFCmaybe it plays out like Jericho insteadJan 23 21:43
FurnaceBoyget *Jan 23 21:43
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rnbFurnaceBoy: yes, his story doesnt include the blackwater sniper taking his head offJan 23 21:44
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I am not sure if you understood what happened in Katrina. civilians were shot at random. You'd be one of them. if you fired a weapon , or even visibly carried one, you'd likely be one of the first shot summarilyJan 23 21:44
DaemonFCnow if that was the case I'd be about 80 miles north of where the closest bomb went offJan 23 21:44
DaemonFCmaybe as much as 100 if it went off in the center of IndianapolisJan 23 21:44
rnbthat's why i say that you'd more than likely be scared to death and panickingJan 23 21:44
DaemonFCsurvival prospects are goodJan 23 21:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: they're better armed than you, and their brief is to take out any civilian deemed threatening. being armed or using a weapon qualifies you for execution.Jan 23 21:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that is your country, now.Jan 23 21:45
rnbDaemonFC: what's the closest that you've ever been to a situation like that, out of curiousity?Jan 23 21:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: go read the actual accountsJan 23 21:45
DaemonFCwhere are the people they gunned down?Jan 23 21:45
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: buriedJan 23 21:45
DaemonFCyou mean the ones that were shooting at the rescue workers?Jan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: go do some reading. you talk more than you read.Jan 23 21:46
DaemonFCthey got awayJan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you're ridiculously naiveJan 23 21:46
rnbDaemonFC: you dont believe what he's saying?!Jan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you have no grasp of eventsJan 23 21:46
rnbDaemonFC: it's very well documentedJan 23 21:46
DaemonFCthe rescue workers fell back because those idiots were shooting at themJan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you refuse to let in facts that contradict your fantasiesJan 23 21:46
rnboh come on, are you kidding?Jan 23 21:46
DaemonFCthen they complain that rescue was proceeding slowlyJan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: of how you would 'like' things to have happened.Jan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: same in HaitiJan 23 21:46
rnbWTF!Jan 23 21:46
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: this limits how far you are able to grasp reality.Jan 23 21:46
rnbDaemonFC: tell me you arent seriousJan 23 21:46
rnbDaemonFC: because i'm about to lose all respect for youJan 23 21:47
FurnaceBoyrnb: sorry, he really believes these fantasiesJan 23 21:47
DaemonFCrnb: I am, the rescue workers were shot at by armed thugsJan 23 21:47
DaemonFCthey couldn't get in because too many people were taking shots at themJan 23 21:47
rnbare you insane?Jan 23 21:47
DaemonFCthat's at least part of the reason help was slow to arriveJan 23 21:47
rnbWHAT?Jan 23 21:47
FurnaceBoyrnb: meet your typical brainwashed YankJan 23 21:47
DaemonFCthugs shooting at the rescue workers, so they come back with the National Guard to protect themJan 23 21:48
DaemonFCand they shot at the National guard tooJan 23 21:48
rnboh my god, that is so ridiculously absurdJan 23 21:48
DaemonFCit's like how stupid are these people?Jan 23 21:48
rnbwho the hell would shoot at an aid worker coming to save them?Jan 23 21:48
DaemonFCI'd say the Guard showed considerable restraint in not firing backJan 23 21:49
rnb???????Jan 23 21:49
rnbwhere the FUCK did you get the idea that this happened?Jan 23 21:49
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you have no clue. do some research if you want to discuss itJan 23 21:49
DaemonFCrnb: The people who were victimizing and raping and pillaging the other survivorsJan 23 21:49
DaemonFCthey don't want law restoredJan 23 21:49
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: in your head, yes.Jan 23 21:49
rnbi repeat: where the FUCK did you get the idea that this happened?Jan 23 21:50
DaemonFCthey were interviewing one of the rescue workers on TVJan 23 21:50
rnburl.Jan 23 21:50
DaemonFCbefore the liberals stepped in and covered it upJan 23 21:50
DaemonFCwent back to "the government is bad, mmmmk"Jan 23 21:50
rnbthey DID have a lot of false reports like that, for instance the famous police officer who was spreading the false story about "babies being raped" Jan 23 21:51
rnbspike lee's movie goes into this in great depthJan 23 21:51
rnbyou can imagine the gossip/drama mill that would be happening in a situation like thatJan 23 21:51
DaemonFCspike lee is racistJan 23 21:51
DaemonFCspike lee is a racist piece of shitJan 23 21:52
rnbone guy was told that his daughter was being raped in the hotel they were holed up inJan 23 21:52
FurnaceBoyrnb: this reminds me of what happened in Australia, with the famous "children overboard" storyJan 23 21:52
FurnaceBoyrnb: before Howard was re-electedJan 23 21:52
FurnaceBoyrnb: there was a boat of refugeesJan 23 21:52
DaemonFChe makes things up so it looks like every white person is out to kill black peopleJan 23 21:52
rnband he freaked out and ran back to the hotel, and nothing at all had happened thereJan 23 21:52
DaemonFChe's a pusswyJan 23 21:52
DaemonFC*pussyJan 23 21:52
rnboh, DaemonFC.Jan 23 21:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Some stunning pictures of rarely-seen sealife: 23 21:52
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FurnaceBoyrnb: the government invented and promulgated a story that the asylum seekers on the boat were throwing children overboard.Jan 23 21:52
rnbi thought you were alright.Jan 23 21:52
FurnaceBoyrnb: Howard used this as an election talking point, even though it was proved to be a complete fabrication.Jan 23 21:53
FurnaceBoyrnb: he was re-elected. and this was after Abu Ghraib too.Jan 23 21:53
rnbyou're a fucking clueless cuntJan 23 21:53
DaemonFCaccording to Spike Lee, all white people are badJan 23 21:53
DaemonFCblack people are always the victimJan 23 21:53
DaemonFCwaaaa, waaaaaa, not enough welfareJan 23 21:53
rnbthat's bullshitJan 23 21:53
rnbwow.Jan 23 21:54
schestowitz 23 21:54
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DaemonFCcall the waaaaaaaaaaambulance1Jan 23 21:54
schestowitzWatch the language BTWJan 23 21:54
schestowitz 23 21:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Amazon hikes Kindle royalties to 70%, with a catch .::. Size~: 30.64 KBJan 23 21:54
schestowitzSwindle.Jan 23 21:54
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you have the worldview of an 8 year old whose been kept in a box with TV all his lifeJan 23 21:54
rnbDaemonFC: i didnt realize why FurnaceBoy was always on your caseJan 23 21:55
*FurnaceBoy goes back to workJan 23 21:55
DaemonFCSpike Lee even complained that Larry Bird is a decent basketball playerJan 23 21:55
DaemonFCthat's just pettyJan 23 21:55
rnbDaemonFC: have you ever been outside of your mom's basement?Jan 23 21:56
DaemonFCThen he complained that Clint Eastwood didn't rewrite history to make one of the marines raising hte flag on Iwo Jima a black manJan 23 21:57
FurnaceBoyrnb: apparently most ppl here have him on /ignore, but I don't intend to do that. i never /ignored anyone before.Jan 23 21:57
rnbFurnaceBoy: eh, i was surprised for a second because so far, he's seemed alright to meJan 23 21:57
DaemonFCThen Spike Lee tried suing SPike TV to get money for nothingJan 23 21:58
rnbFurnaceBoy: people like him are a dime a dozen in the USJan 23 21:58
DaemonFC*Spike TVJan 23 21:58
FurnaceBoyrnb: I knowJan 23 21:58
DaemonFCSpike Lee is worthlessJan 23 21:58
FurnaceBoyrnb: it's the mainstream viewJan 23 21:58
FurnaceBoyrnb: because it's comfortableJan 23 21:58
rnbFurnaceBoy: well, Spike Lee being worthless isnt the mainstream viewJan 23 21:58
DaemonFCno, I don't have problems with calling a black guy a racistJan 23 21:58
DaemonFCwhen he so obviously isJan 23 21:58
rnbSpike Lee is a cinematic genius who is critically acclaimedJan 23 21:58
DaemonFCby liberalsJan 23 21:58
DaemonFCextreme liberalsJan 23 21:58
DaemonFCthe liberals that still want me to pay reparations from 160 years agoJan 23 21:59
DaemonFCthose are the douches that like Spike LeeJan 23 21:59
DaemonFCthey just never let it go, never stop complaining, never stop vilifying me for being whiteJan 23 22:00
DaemonFCalways wanting me to pay more taxes to give them free (as in open and costs nothing) seats in collegeJan 23 22:00
rnbDaemonFC: i doubt it's because your white. it really is the content of your character, to paraphrase Dr KingJan 23 22:00
DaemonFCso they can learn even more about why I am the devilJan 23 22:00
rnboh, DaemonFC ... i'm so disappointed.Jan 23 22:01
rnbi thought you were my steel belt paisanJan 23 22:01
DaemonFCrnb: I'm not a skinhead, I am not a slave keeper, I don't even care outside of the fact that mainstream black culture vilifies meJan 23 22:01
DaemonFCthey encourage racism against white people, all white people, no exceptionJan 23 22:02
rnbnah, you're just ignorantJan 23 22:02
DaemonFCthey have become exactly what they hateJan 23 22:02
DaemonFCracistsJan 23 22:02
rnb-so- ignorant that it isnt even worth discussing it with youJan 23 22:02
DaemonFCI pity that they stoop so low as to try to pin all their personal failings on white peopleJan 23 22:02
rnbthese opinions arent unique or clever, they're just repeats of what you hear on third-rate AM radio showsJan 23 22:03
DaemonFCthey are ignorant, it is easy to blame white people as aopposed to becoming educated or solving your own problemsJan 23 22:03
DaemonFCthey've become this pile of mush that can only say "They did it!!!!"Jan 23 22:03
rnbeh, like i say, it's not even worth discussing it with youJan 23 22:03
DaemonFCnoJan 23 22:04
DaemonFCyou hear this crap from Spike Lee and Al SharptonJan 23 22:04
FurnaceBoyrnb++Jan 23 22:04
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: go do something usefulJan 23 22:04
DaemonFCit won't ever stop as long as they keep reopening the wound with patent nonsense and outright liesJan 23 22:04
rnbDaemonFC: you cant bait me... Jan 23 22:04
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rnbDaemonFC: you lost meJan 23 22:05
DaemonFCSpike Lee is the black version of Richard ButlerJan 23 22:05
DaemonFCyou know, the man who started Aryan Nations with racially motives lies about black people?Jan 23 22:06
DaemonFCthey're both hatemongers, the only difference is their skin colorJan 23 22:06
DaemonFC*motivatedJan 23 22:06
schestowitzThis is a good article: 23 22:14
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DaemonFCthe fact that someone in the UK can break into a person's home, tie up their family, and threaten them with a weapon, and have the law side with them when the homeowner kicks the guys ass and saves his family is......disturbingJan 23 22:15
DaemonFCand goes to show what liberals do to governmentJan 23 22:15
DaemonFCI guarantee you that it's a liberal that made sure a person cannot defend themselves, their family, and their home thereJan 23 22:16
DaemonFCin the USA, if you break into someone's home, you're just asking for whatever happens to youJan 23 22:17
DaemonFCas it should beJan 23 22:17
DaemonFCI'm sure there's also a lot more break-ins in the UK as the law there does little to nothing about it and lists the burglar as the homeowner's victimJan 23 22:18
DaemonFCthat's just so perverted that the day it became like that here I would gladly renounce my citizenship and go live somewhere this wasn't allowed to occurJan 23 22:18
_GoblinNo thats a distorted view daemonfcJan 23 22:19
DaemonFCwhen the law punishes crime, crime still happensJan 23 22:19
_Goblinthats not quite right...Jan 23 22:20
_Goblinin the ukJan 23 22:20
DaemonFCwhen the law does nothing to discourage crime, it flourishesJan 23 22:20
*Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection)Jan 23 22:20
_Goblinwhat it says is "You are responsible for persons on your property either lawfully or not"Jan 23 22:20
DaemonFCwhich is unacceptableJan 23 22:20
_Goblinand if you sit and think about it, that makes sense.Jan 23 22:20
_Goblinreally?Jan 23 22:20
DaemonFCI am not responsible for persons on my property illegallyJan 23 22:20
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_Goblinok daemon, say you came to my house....Jan 23 22:21
DaemonFCthey are  taking their risk in invading my homeJan 23 22:21
_Goblinand due to my neglegence ended up crippling comeback?Jan 23 22:21
DaemonFC_Goblin: So if the mail carrier falls and breaks his arm on your property, they can hold you liable there?Jan 23 22:21
_GoblinyepJan 23 22:21
_Goblinand the lawfully or not part stops people saying "he wasn't on my property lawfully"Jan 23 22:22
DaemonFCthat's funnyJan 23 22:22
_Goblinso if you go into wallmart or similar in the UK and injure yourself, the manager cannot claim you were there unlawfully.Jan 23 22:22
_Goblinas a way to avoid responsibilityJan 23 22:22
_Goblinas I repeatedly say to you, umbrella rules like the ones you have don#t work in the real world....things are more complicated than your black and white viewJan 23 22:23
DaemonFCmy landlord is responsible if I am injured on his property *if* a court finds that the accident was caused by something he did, and that's because I obviously have the right to be hereJan 23 22:23
_Goblinyes, but again you are confused...Jan 23 22:24
DaemonFCso if the stairs outside collapse from lack of maintenance, I sueJan 23 22:24
_Goblinif US land law is like UK, then you have "constructive posession of the property" even if its owned by a landlord.Jan 23 22:24
DaemonFCif I slip after getting out of the shower, it's my problemJan 23 22:24
DaemonFConly the part I'm rentingJan 23 22:24
_Goblinwhat if the landlord slips in the property due to your neglegence (not reporting a fault on his property)Jan 23 22:24
DaemonFCso if the stairs outside collapse under me, I sueJan 23 22:25
DaemonFCin my apartment?Jan 23 22:25
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Jan 23 22:25
DaemonFCthat would go on my renter's insurance if he suedJan 23 22:25
_GoblindaemonFC you are now changing the goal posts.Jan 23 22:25
_Goblinwe were talking burglarsJan 23 22:25
_Goblinand now you are moving into civil lawJan 23 22:25
DaemonFCright, a burglar has no right to be in your houseJan 23 22:26
DaemonFCperiodJan 23 22:26
_Goblintrue...Jan 23 22:26
_Goblinthey are there unlawfullyJan 23 22:26
_Goblinbut you are still responsibleJan 23 22:26
MinceR(animated) 23 22:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/gif type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 23 22:26
DaemonFCI also have a right to defend myself if I believe the burglar will injure or kill meJan 23 22:26
DaemonFCwith deadly forceJan 23 22:26
DaemonFCso I can likely shoot him in the head and not commit a crimeJan 23 22:26
DaemonFCobviously if you shoot someone in the back........Jan 23 22:27
DaemonFCso get his attention first so he'll turn aroundJan 23 22:27
_GoblindaemonFC laws are different here...I thought you were talking youve changed back to US...Jan 23 22:28
_Goblinand again you are wrong.Jan 23 22:28
DaemonFCwell, in the UK, not having that right to defend yourself is a perversionJan 23 22:28
_GoblinYOU COULD kill a burglar in the UK, as long as you could prove the force used was proportional in the circumstances.Jan 23 22:28
DaemonFCthat man should not have spent 1 second in jailJan 23 22:29
_Goblinas I say daemonFC have a clue before you try to argue....UK law states you can use reasonable force.Jan 23 22:29
DaemonFCfamily held hostage, man threatens to kill themJan 23 22:29
DaemonFCI'd say whatever he did was proportional to thatJan 23 22:29
DaemonFCI would never, as a juror, vote to convict that manJan 23 22:29
_Goblinthats you, its a courts decision.Jan 23 22:29
DaemonFCyeah, what kind of stupid jury does this?Jan 23 22:30
_Goblindoes what?Jan 23 22:30
DaemonFCconvicts a man protecting his familyJan 23 22:30
_Goblinimpossible to answer and impossible for you to comment on....Jan 23 22:30
DaemonFCthey must have hand picked a jury of liberals or somethingJan 23 22:30
DaemonFChere, even if I was the only dissenting juror, I'd keep voting not guilty and at least give the man a mistrialJan 23 22:31
_Goblinyes daemonFC....we are not going back into daemonFC world again..?  I had enough listening to your Willy Wonker world the other day.Jan 23 22:31
DaemonFCso that he maybe can try his luck again and not get 12 moronsJan 23 22:31
_GoblinDaemonFC I often wonder if maybe you are existing in more than one universe at the same time....your distorted view of the world and incorrect assumption tends to suggest you are....Jan 23 22:33
_Goblinlike when you were for letting people in the 3rd world die one day and then anti abortion the and anti life at the same time?Jan 23 22:34
DaemonFCnot really a conflicting point of view if you think about itJan 23 22:36
DaemonFCliberals have just as conflicting a viewpoint if you want to look at itJan 23 22:36
_GoblinId rather not think about it thanks....Jan 23 22:37
DaemonFCliberals want abortion to cap and otherwise successful population by murdering babiesJan 23 22:37
DaemonFCwhile artificially propping up a failed population from naturally limiting itselfJan 23 22:37
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 22:38
DaemonFCbrb, time to go get dinnerJan 23 22:38
_GoblindaemonFC: you really don't consider you point of view properly do you?Jan 23 22:38
_GoblinProbably for the best.Jan 23 22:38
_GoblinI think you need more vitamin C in your diet.Jan 23 22:38
_Goblinand possibly more iron.Jan 23 22:38
_Goblin@Everyone else: DaemonFC acts like this due to a zinc deficiency in my "medical" opinion..... ;)Jan 23 22:39
_Goblinbecause he's a complete t*sserJan 23 22:39
rnbi didnt understand why people were so mean to him all the timeJan 23 22:40
rnbuntil todayJan 23 22:40
_Goblinand Im sorry, I had my angry head on there...Jan 23 22:40
rnbi lost all respect for him todayJan 23 22:40
_GoblinI had him banned for a few months because he made racist comments.Jan 23 22:40
_Goblinsorry ignored.Jan 23 22:40
rnbtheres nothing to gain from a conversation with someone who is stupid enough to think what he thinksJan 23 22:41
_Goblinand also he claimed that people in the 3rd world were worthless and should be left to die.Jan 23 22:41
rnbhe claimed that the reason aid didnt get to katrina victims is because of all the thugs shooting at people coming to save them from the floodJan 23 22:41
rnbbecause they wanted to keep the state of lawlessness going, even though everyone was desperate to get aid, thugs includedJan 23 22:42
rnband then he went on a rant about how spike lee is racist and how oppressed he is by black peopleJan 23 22:43
rnbbeing born & raised where he lives, i know exactly the kind of personJan 23 22:43
rnbits too badJan 23 22:43
rnbi thought he was alrightJan 23 22:43
rnbanyway, not worth talking aboutJan 23 22:44
_Goblinsorry back...had was ordered on a chore by "She who must be obey'd"Jan 23 22:46
rnbhehehehJan 23 22:46
_Goblin"you still haven't taken the plastic out"Jan 23 22:46
_Goblin(meaning re-cycling)Jan 23 22:46
rnbi like having conversations on irc, i'm glad i found this channelJan 23 22:46
_Goblinits a decent channel....Jan 23 22:47
rnbit's hard to find a good channel that fits youJan 23 22:47
_Goblinits also nice that there are so many diverse views....Jan 23 22:47
cubezzzyou really enjoy it? :)Jan 23 22:47
rnbyeah, it's pretty goodJan 23 22:47
_Goblinalthough people like to suggest its a BN clubJan 23 22:47
rnbcubezzz: me?Jan 23 22:47
cubezzzit's arguements R us a lot of the timeJan 23 22:47
_Goblinfor me its the only channel I have ever stayed in for longer than a month....Jan 23 22:48
rnbwell.. sometimes irc arguments can degenerate into uselessnessJan 23 22:48
_GoblinI think Ive been around here for about a year....Jan 23 22:48
_Goblinmaybe a little more.Jan 23 22:48
rnbbut i like talking about things and bouncing my ideas off of other people's ideasJan 23 22:48
schestowitzMinceR: yes, I have a post about it comingJan 23 22:48
rnbthe art of conversation is dying outJan 23 22:48
_Goblintrue.Jan 23 22:49
cubezzzI'm surprised it's not boycott Microsoft, but there you goJan 23 22:49
schestowitz 23 22:49
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rnbcubezzz: well, it is that too, right?Jan 23 22:49
_GoblinI suppose most of us do boycott microsoft in that we don't use any of their software.Jan 23 22:49
schestowitzcubezzz: Microsoft is a subsidiary of NovellJan 23 22:49
cubezzzyeah, for me it isJan 23 22:49
schestowitzI know cause SUSE people insistedJan 23 22:49
rnbthe only thing i dont like is the public loggingJan 23 22:49
schestowitzThey told me Microsoft sold out to NovellJan 23 22:50
cubezzzdon't you mean Novell sold out to Microsoft?Jan 23 22:50
schestowitzThey signed a patent deal cause Novell was so so so powerful with SUSE (sheed! There's no Red Hat and IBM)Jan 23 22:50
schestowitzNo, no..Jan 23 22:50
rnbyeah, i thought that was the point.. everyone hates m$ but novell actually was fooling people into thinking they were a major corporation that was going to support free softwareJan 23 22:50
rnbso, in a way, they are actually worseJan 23 22:50
schestowitzNovell has got Pearly and MonkeyBoy by the b*Jan 23 22:50
_GoblinRoy, have you seen the BBC's footage of creatures at 10000ft under the ocean....deepest ever footage apparently.Jan 23 22:50
schestowitzArgues OpenSUSE/Novell apologistsJan 23 22:51
cubezzzrnb, but if you look through the man pages you'll see some Novell contributionsJan 23 22:51
schestowitz_Goblin: I tweeted itJan 23 22:51
schestowitzDid you not see?Jan 23 22:51
cubezzzso they really did support Linux after a fashionJan 23 22:51
_Goblinlol...Jan 23 22:51
_Goblinthats probably why Ive got it on my other screen!Jan 23 22:51
cubezzznot that I trust Novell mind youJan 23 22:51
_Goblindidn't notice the tweeter!Jan 23 22:51
schestowitzHow do these creature live without sun and so much pressure?Jan 23 22:51
_Goblinprobably much like MS employeesJan 23 22:51
*Balrog_ ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 22:51
schestowitz_Goblin: I guessJan 23 22:52
cubezzzMicrosoft employees aren't attracted to the SunJan 23 22:52
schestowitzIt gets sold in Seattle at winter timwJan 23 22:52
_Goblinthat was good wasnt it?  Im sharp tonight!Jan 23 22:52
cubezzzthey are attracted to $$$$ :)Jan 23 22:52
_Goblinthere's certainly alot of pressure at the moment.Jan 23 22:52
schestowitzAnd the crazy managers are high pressure... pumping bulletsJan 23 22:52
schestowitzcubezzz: many comes from poor backgroundJan 23 22:53
schestowitzMicrosoft does not pay them wellJan 23 22:53
_Goblindont say "bullets" we'll have another DaemonFC rant again!Jan 23 22:53
cubezzznoooOOooooesJan 23 22:53
cubezzzanything but thatJan 23 22:53
schestowitzThey are overworked and aspiring to be like Uber-Criminal Jan 23 22:53
schestowitzCpitalisation intendedJan 23 22:53
schestowitz_Goblin: yes, DaemonFOX brought guns into the channelJan 23 22:53
_Goblinactually there is a striking resembalance between Ballmer and a Snail Fish.......Jan 23 22:54
rnbok, well, i need to work nowJan 23 22:54
schestowitzHe must be caressing his pistol at night..... "ma precious....."Jan 23 22:54
_Goblinas I said...he has a zinc deficiency.Jan 23 22:54
schestowitz_Goblin: maybeJan 23 22:55
rnbmy advice is that DaemonFC also likes attention, even negative attentionJan 23 22:55
_Goblinand I hope you understand what I mean...Jan 23 22:55
schestowitzBut he's the smaller criminalJan 23 22:55
schestowitzThe bigger one is not laundering his name with PRJan 23 22:55
schestowitz*nowJan 23 22:55
schestowitzrnb: yes, it was noticed beforeJan 23 22:55
schestowitzInflammatory writings are trollingJan 23 22:55
schestowitz 23 22:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Cisco's McCool Sees Growing Data-center Role - PC World .::. Size~: 75.7 KBJan 23 22:56
rnbschestowitz: yeahJan 23 22:56
schestowitzbad name.... McCool.. like McKool the trolls attorneyJan 23 22:56
schestowitztessier__: are you there?Jan 23 22:57
schestowitzrnb: he has always been like thisJan 23 22:57
schestowitz 23 22:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 31st, 2009  Part 1 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 306.37 KBJan 23 22:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Even the pigeons are with the Mafia. HT @picturecoolJan 23 23:00
schestowitzLooks like a dude with lipstick: 23 23:00
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_Goblinanyone here a fedora 12 user?Jan 23 23:01
schestowitz 23 23:02
schestowitzPublishers hate Google sometimesJan 23 23:02
schestowitzGoogle is a money Hoover  for some thingsJan 23 23:02
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: Yet Another Study Shows Txting Improves Kids' Spelling | Techdirt .::. Size~: 38.89 KBJan 23 23:09
schestowitz"While it still seems like the common belief is that "txt spk" and other sorts of abbreviated elements of the English language harm kids' ability to write properly, we've seen study after study after study after study after study after study has found exactly the opposite. "Jan 23 23:09
*DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving.")Jan 23 23:10
_Goblintxt speak is like the assembly language of our language....Jan 23 23:10
*DaemonFC ( has joined #boycottnovellJan 23 23:17
DaemonFCschestowitz: Leave Ann Coulter ALOOOOOOOOONE!!!!!Jan 23 23:17
DaemonFC(5:58:41 PM) schestowitz: Looks like a dude with lipstick: 23 23:17
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DaemonFCyou know, I don't agree with a lot of what Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, or all of them say, but.....there was a time when they made more senseJan 23 23:19
DaemonFCnot a lot more, just more than they do nowJan 23 23:19
DaemonFCwhen they actually raised points against people like Bill Clinton, instead of screaming "NAZI NAZI, SOCIALIST!!!!!!! zOMG!!!1111" at everythingJan 23 23:20
DaemonFCkind of makes me wonder what the hell happenedJan 23 23:20
_GoblinI believe Jellyfish should be included in the Cruelty to Animals act.Jan 23 23:20
DaemonFCshit, Rush Limbaugh really lost me when he threw his support behind NAFTAJan 23 23:21
_GoblinI think going equiped to Badger bait should be an indictable only offence.Jan 23 23:21
DaemonFCyou know, according to Rush, we should all be living in this paradise where everyone has plenty and it's all thanks to NAFTAJan 23 23:21
DaemonFCinstead we have a 20% unemployment rate, Canada is bitching about diversion of things like "their water"Jan 23 23:22
DaemonFCand Mexico is now losing the jobs they got from the USA to ChinaJan 23 23:22
DaemonFC_Goblin: indictable is like a misdemeanor then?Jan 23 23:23
_Goblinno...Jan 23 23:23
_Goblinstraight to crown court.Jan 23 23:23
_Goblinmin 6monthsJan 23 23:23
DaemonFChmmm, there's generally three classes of crime in the USJan 23 23:23
DaemonFCinfractions, misdemeanors, and feloniesJan 23 23:23
DaemonFCinfractions are like parking, seat belt, speeding tickets, spitting on the sidewalk, etc.Jan 23 23:24
DaemonFCjust a fine, no record of itJan 23 23:24
DaemonFCmisdemeanors are lesser offenses, those which can't carry more than a year in jail and a $5,000 fineJan 23 23:25
_Goblinall cases in the UK first go to Magistrates, if they deem the matter more serious they can send to crown or if the offense is trialable either way, the accused can elect to go to crown.  Either way a case is first heard at magistrates and usually plea is entered there regardless of where the matter ends up.Jan 23 23:25
DaemonFCfelonies are major drug offenses, murders, accounting fraud, grand theft (over $500-1000 depending on the stateJan 23 23:25
_Goblinthat would be an indictable....over here...Jan 23 23:25
DaemonFCa felonyJan 23 23:25
DaemonFC?Jan 23 23:25
_Goblinyour misdemeanors and infractions would come under a summary offense.Jan 23 23:26
_Goblinlike first case DUIJan 23 23:26
_Goblinor minor public order offenses.Jan 23 23:26
DaemonFCWhen did the naming difference happen? I think maybe when we got rid of the British common law?Jan 23 23:26
DaemonFCso must have been in the 1800sJan 23 23:26
_Goblincouldn't answer...Jan 23 23:26
_Goblindon't know..Jan 23 23:27
DaemonFCwe inherited the British Capital Buggery offenseJan 23 23:27
DaemonFCpunishable by death :PJan 23 23:27
DaemonFCsome of Indiana's law still resembles the British common law system we threw outJan 23 23:28
DaemonFCthough most of the remaining pieces are too barbaric to be enforceable Jan 23 23:28
DaemonFCcheck forgery under an Indiana law never repealed still carries a punishment of 500 lashesJan 23 23:29
DaemonFCin publicJan 23 23:29
_Goblinsounds painful.Jan 23 23:29
_Goblinand rather embarassingJan 23 23:29
*magentar has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Jan 23 23:29
DaemonFC_Goblin: Well, the odd thing is, is that it's unconstitutional, not just under the federal constitution, but Indiana's state constitution as wellJan 23 23:29
DaemonFCso it's classified concurrently as a Class A misdemeanor carrying 1 year and $5,000 fine as maximumJan 23 23:30
_Goblincouldn't I take the lashes instead?Jan 23 23:30
DaemonFCIndiana's Bill of Rights has 20 stipulationsJan 23 23:30
_Goblinthey sound painful tooJan 23 23:30
DaemonFCone of which is protection from cruel and unusual punishmentJan 23 23:30
_GoblinI think I'd rather have a lash than a stipulation...don't like the sound of that at all.Jan 23 23:31
DaemonFCit's actually a bit stronger than the US federal Bill of RightsJan 23 23:31
_Goblin;)Jan 23 23:31
_Goblinhow about 250 lashes, 6months and a $2500 fine....can I haggle?Jan 23 23:32
DaemonFC 23 23:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Indiana Constitution - Article 1 .::. Size~: 10.94 KBJan 23 23:32
DaemonFCB-)Jan 23 23:32
DaemonFCNo, you cannot be tried or punished under the flogging lawJan 23 23:32
DaemonFCI wish they'd bring it back thoughJan 23 23:32
_Goblinor what about 250 lashes, no fine and a ruddy hard smack on the bottom?Jan 23 23:32
DaemonFCI imagine there would not be any bad checks written ever againJan 23 23:32
_Goblinthat will learn them to pay by debit card.Jan 23 23:33
DaemonFCand while they're at it, child molestation should be 2,000 public lashingsJan 23 23:33
_GoblinI think taking those people off the streets is more important....Jan 23 23:34
_Goblinrather see prison sentences.Jan 23 23:34
DaemonFCI want the old British common law system backJan 23 23:34
DaemonFCtear down the prisonsJan 23 23:34
DaemonFCflog the everloving shit out of themJan 23 23:34
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 23:34
DaemonFCmajor deterrent at a minimum of public expenseJan 23 23:35
_Goblinwhips are expensive if you get a good one.Jan 23 23:35
DaemonFCso are walls, bars, and guardsJan 23 23:35
DaemonFCand feeding millions of prisonersJan 23 23:35
DaemonFCflog the bastardsJan 23 23:36
DaemonFCflog them I say!Jan 23 23:36
_Goblinwhy don't we get the criminals to whip themselves and save even more money?Jan 23 23:36
DaemonFCor let people pay to do itJan 23 23:36
DaemonFCtell them what the guy didJan 23 23:36
DaemonFCand take bidsJan 23 23:36
_Goblincalm down daemonFC...I don't think you'll get a go just yet.Jan 23 23:36
DaemonFCI just found a way to wipe out the state's debtJan 23 23:37
DaemonFC:PJan 23 23:37
_GoblinI might sound strange here but flogging another man with a whip is not something I'd really like to do...Jan 23 23:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good rant about why books are becoming antiquated: 23 23:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ongoing by Tim Bray · Paying For Books .::. Size~: 20.06 KBJan 23 23:37
_Goblindestroy the planet?Jan 23 23:37
_Goblinmove to mars?Jan 23 23:37
_Goblinput you head under a pillow and hum really loudly?Jan 23 23:38
DaemonFC_Goblin: Yeah, leave Earth behind as a prison planetJan 23 23:38
DaemonFC:DJan 23 23:38
_Goblinok...tell you what, I'll stay here DaemonFC on this can go into space....theres a really nice planet nearby I promise.Jan 23 23:38
DaemonFChundreds of years later and many generations, they rename Earth.......AustraliaJan 23 23:38
_Goblinwhy no Daemonsville?Jan 23 23:39
schestowitz_Goblin: there's also a star really closeJan 23 23:39
_Goblinwolf 359?Jan 23 23:39
schestowitzIt's like boiling a frogJan 23 23:39
_Goblin5 light years I think...Jan 23 23:39
schestowitz_Goblin: noJan 23 23:40
DaemonFCI remember a battle taking place thereJan 23 23:40
schestowitzSunJan 23 23:40
DaemonFC;)Jan 23 23:40
_GoblinI think Europa is quite nice this time of year.Jan 23 23:40
schestowitzMaybe we can build a space elevator to serve as a chute for space garbage en route to Sun's gravity/orbitJan 23 23:40
schestowitzDaemonFC: you should have voted McBush. Or just PR stunt? 23 23:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Cindy McCain Poses for Pro-Gay Marriage Ad Campaign | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 25.4 KBJan 23 23:40
_Goblinespecially if you are into winter sports.Jan 23 23:40
DaemonFCnow, if you want to get into Star Trek, the kobayashi maru depiction in the movie had me laughing pretty hardJan 23 23:41
schestowitz_Goblin: it's a nice moon, but any oxygen at all?Jan 23 23:41
_Goblin"rewrite the rules" - yes Daemon I too am a ST fan.Jan 23 23:41
schestowitzI watched the New Generation a loJan 23 23:42
schestowitz*lotJan 23 23:42
_Goblinschestowitz: DaemonFC is full of so much hot air he will survive for years.Jan 23 23:42
DaemonFCI didn't really like TNG muchJan 23 23:43
DaemonFCI liked Voyager a lotJan 23 23:43
_GoblinVoyager was OK, it got better when the borg reappeared.....DS9 was probably my favorite.Jan 23 23:44
DaemonFCyeah, I also liked the Elite Force gamesJan 23 23:44
DaemonFCespecially the Borg missionsJan 23 23:44
_Goblinnever played em.Jan 23 23:44
DaemonFCthey adapt and you have to keep changing weaponsJan 23 23:44
DaemonFCyou should try not to provoke them and they'll ignore you for a whileJan 23 23:45
DaemonFCgrenades help a lot :)Jan 23 23:45
schestowitzOh, here we go again.......:-(Jan 23 23:45
_Goblinyeah..thanks...if I ever come across a borg I'll keep that in mind.Jan 23 23:45
DaemonFCwait til there's the most of them you can get in one spot and toss a grenade inJan 23 23:46
_Goblintook the words right out of my mouth....Jan 23 23:46
_Goblinor...Jan 23 23:46
DaemonFC"Assimilate This!"Jan 23 23:46
DaemonFC8-)Jan 23 23:46
_Goblinyou could simply realize its a computer game, switch it off and do something else.Jan 23 23:46
DaemonFCtakes all the fun out of itJan 23 23:46
_Goblinim sure.Jan 23 23:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Terrorist threat level raised to "really strong tea" 23 23:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Terrorist threat level raised to really strong tea | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 38.86 KBJan 23 23:47
DaemonFCthey should place it to "Same as its always been"Jan 23 23:49
DaemonFCand leave it thereJan 23 23:49
DaemonFCthe terror alert levels are nothing other than a political toolJan 23 23:50
DaemonFCraising us to "red alert" right before the 2004 election, for exampleJan 23 23:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Funny sign du jour [img]: 23 23:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBJan 23 23:50
DaemonFCin the absence of a defined threatJan 23 23:50
_Goblinbut how would that benefit the government in power?  Wouldn't it suggest to the voter that the government couldn't secure its own country?Jan 23 23:51
DaemonFC_Goblin: Why don't we all just go to brown alert?Jan 23 23:51
DaemonFCthere is no brown alertJan 23 23:51
DaemonFCyou won't say that in a minutesJan 23 23:51
DaemonFC*minuteJan 23 23:51
_Goblineh?Jan 23 23:51
DaemonFCand don't say I didn't alert youJan 23 23:51
_Goblinwho are you having that conversation with?Jan 23 23:51
DaemonFCRed DwarfJan 23 23:51
DaemonFCI think it was the episode with the Suicide SquidJan 23 23:52
_Goblinah...early squid was Duane Dibley epJan 23 23:52
DaemonFCno, that was the polymorph, right?Jan 23 23:52
_Goblinyep... Duane Dibley appeared a few timesJan 23 23:52
schestowitzI don't think DaemonFOX known the show Red DwardJan 23 23:53
DaemonFCThermosJan 23 23:53
DaemonFClunch boxJan 23 23:53
schestowitz*warfJan 23 23:53
_Goblin"Back to reality" & "Polymorph"Jan 23 23:53
DaemonFCand a triple thick never know!Jan 23 23:53
DaemonFCheheJan 23 23:53
_Goblinthe Duke of DorkJan 23 23:53
DaemonFC"The first time you use medicated shampoo, you'll disappear!"Jan 23 23:54
DaemonFC:DJan 23 23:54
_Goblinquote to rimmer....Jan 23 23:54
_Goblinepisode...Jan 23 23:54
_GoblinDNAJan 23 23:54
DaemonFCmmhmJan 23 23:54
_Goblinthe mutton vindaloo curry beast epJan 23 23:54
DaemonFClmfaoJan 23 23:54
_GoblinIm better than google when it comes to scifi.Jan 23 23:54
DaemonFCLister tries to have Kryton turn him into RobocopJan 23 23:55
DaemonFCbut it makes him 2 feet tallJan 23 23:55
_Goblinyep midget...Jan 23 23:55
DaemonFC:PJan 23 23:55
_Goblinand a chicken and a hamsterJan 23 23:55
_GoblinWhat have we created?Jan 23 23:55
_GoblinHalf man half extra indian curry.Jan 23 23:55
_Goblin..Jan 23 23:55
_Goblin"Cant we just pacify it with some Indian restaurant music and flop wallpaper?"Jan 23 23:56
_GoblinIm good.Jan 23 23:56
DaemonFC"He has a video store card? You'd think they'd remember this guy....'Hey, you're the one that came in here last week, sneezed, and caused a monsoon!'"Jan 23 23:56
_GoblinPart where the corpse falls through Rimmer and Kryten says:Jan 23 23:56
_Goblin"I think he now knows what shirt tails are for"Jan 23 23:56
DaemonFCyeah, that new 2009 mini-series was just kind of so-soJan 23 23:57
_Goblinagreed...Jan 23 23:57
_Goblinthe xmas special last year was good.Jan 23 23:57
DaemonFCbut some of their earlier stuff has had me in tears, trying to breatheJan 23 23:57
_Goblinthey get back to earth....Jan 23 23:57
_Goblinsort of.Jan 23 23:57
_Goblin"Sexual attractions a virus? Take me to a hospital Im a terminal case!"Jan 23 23:58
DaemonFCuggghJan 23 23:58
_Goblin"Quarantine"Jan 23 23:58
DaemonFCI'd inject myself with everything in that lab at onceJan 23 23:58
DaemonFCand whatever happens, happensJan 23 23:58
schestowitz_Goblin: you're cracking the DaemonFOX up. He might have another seizure :-)Jan 23 23:58
_Goblinhe's hit upon my specialist subject.....UK ScifiJan 23 23:59
DaemonFCschestowitz: Yes, you are quite sensitive. It's left an impression on me.Jan 23 23:59
DaemonFC:)Jan 23 23:59
DaemonFCmakes me want to be a better person, evenJan 23 23:59

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