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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 13th, 2010

-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Victims Attest to #Windows Bricking and #Microsoft Halts Patches #fail #botchtuesdayFeb 13 00:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: More Victims Attest to Windows Bricking and Microsoft Halts Patches | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 86.71 KBFeb 13 00:13
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Chips_B_MalroyHi all!  Anyone still up on that side of the pond?Feb 13 00:42
Chips_B_Malroyguess not then.  Why I am here, is this link: 13 00:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Microsoft to crack down on Windows 7 activation cracks .::. Size~: 135.81 KBFeb 13 00:43
Chips_B_Malroysubtitle:  " Optional update to WAT will sniff out more than 70 cracks, 'phone home' to Microsoft"Feb 13 00:44
Chips_B_MalroyI don't know if Roy has overlooked this one, or just not got to it, but my feeling it is important.  Because it shows the measures that MS is going to, with the phone home stuff.  At some point, I believe they will go so far as to sue users.  But the WGA squeezeing of non-legit users, will increase as the MS profits decrease, of that you can be sure.  Feb 13 00:46
schestowitzHey, Chips_B_MalroyFeb 13 00:47
Chips_B_MalroyQuote from the link:  "The update to Windows Activation Technologies (WAT), the anti-piracy software formerly known as Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA), will be posted to Microsoft's download site on Feb. 17, and offered as an optional upgrade via Windows Update later this month, where it will be tagged as "important."Feb 13 00:48
Chips_B_MalroyHi RoyFeb 13 00:48
oiaohmWAT is basically making KMS activation standard for everyone.Feb 13 00:48
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: I was just writing about thatFeb 13 00:48
schestowitzJust rereading what I wrote nowFeb 13 00:48
Chips_B_Malroyah, I thought soFeb 13 00:48
oiaohmWhat happens if the MS servers fail?Feb 13 00:48
schestowitzI'll add your comment nowFeb 13 00:48
MinceRpeople learn not to rely on m$ products?Feb 13 00:48
MinceRnahFeb 13 00:48
MinceRthey're far too stupid for thatFeb 13 00:49
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> easy,. if their activation servers fail, convert to LinuxFeb 13 00:49
Chips_B_MalroyWGA is now WAT, another renaming of an unpopular MS app, like MSN was renamed, then VistaFeb 13 00:50
Chips_B_MalroyIn this case, the name was changed to protect the guiltyFeb 13 00:51
oiaohmNot exactly.Feb 13 00:55
oiaohmWAT is different toWGAFeb 13 00:55
oiaohmWAT has a fixed time frame to check up on server.Feb 13 00:55
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm> the activation servers have failed before.  What would happen if say an as an exampe, I4I case would cause MS to have to stop activations?  Feb 13 00:55
Chips_B_MalroyWindows is unstable for a variaty of reasons, and many users just reinstall it and have to reactivate itFeb 13 00:56
Chips_B_MalroyShould MS decide that XP once it goes off life support, should not longer be activated, what happens?Feb 13 00:57
Chips_B_MalroyBut there is a very good side to WAT and WGA.  It will further drive the flight of some Windows users to GNU/LinuxFeb 13 01:00
cubezzzheh, that re-activation stuff must be off-puttingFeb 13 01:00
MinceRat least of the users who have more than two brain cellsFeb 13 01:00
MinceRand they are rareFeb 13 01:01
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR>agreed!Feb 13 01:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft makes #Vista7 even worse by adding a user-hostile ‘feature’ to it #antifeature #suicideFeb 13 01:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vista 7s 8th Sin: Another Antifeature Appended with Windows Update | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.78 KBFeb 13 01:01
Chips_B_Malroywhatever MS does in windows Seven for WAT/WGA, expect them at some point to do more stealth updates to XP in the same wayFeb 13 01:02
cubezzzMicrosoft _is_ user hostileFeb 13 01:03
Chips_B_Malroyas the profits declineFeb 13 01:03
cubezzzeven employee hostileFeb 13 01:03
schestowitzMicrosoft has no usersFeb 13 01:03
Chips_B_MalroyyesFeb 13 01:03
schestowitzIt has customersFeb 13 01:03
schestowitzBut it does not respect themFeb 13 01:03
schestowitzThey are not clientsFeb 13 01:03
schestowitzJust consumers/customersFeb 13 01:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Why we are in fact living in the future HT @cholten99Feb 13 01:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Kim Stanley Robinson: the world is an sf novel we collaborate on Boing Boing .::. Size~: 77.91 KBFeb 13 01:03
cubezzzit's barely even voluntaryFeb 13 01:04
schestowitzIf Microsoft was a medical doctor, it would be a quackFeb 13 01:04
cubezzzyou need to go out of your way to get a non proprietary boxFeb 13 01:04
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Chips_B_MalroyRoy, your article on the Zune was right on the other day.  I took a friend to Frys the other day, and was waiting near the entrance.  The first thing in there, was a shopping cart with Zune docks in them,  They were marked down from $29.95 to $9.99, no rebates , just maked down.Feb 13 01:07
Chips_B_MalroyThey are dumping the Zune accessories firstFeb 13 01:07
Chips_B_Malroya clear signFeb 13 01:07
Chips_B_MalroyWhile waiting, I say two people pick up the Zune dock box, look at it for awhile, and put it back down.Feb 13 01:08
ThistleWebprobs looking it it's work with their iPodFeb 13 01:09
cubezzzthis looks interesting:Feb 13 01:09
cubezzz 13 01:09
Chips_B_MalroyThey probably thought it was an actual Zune, and might be worth the $9.99 price.Feb 13 01:09
ThistleWebtrue, ebayFeb 13 01:09
MinceRi suspect this webpage is oldFeb 13 01:10
MinceRintel sold XScale long ago :>Feb 13 01:10
Chips_B_MalroyZune has been a failure in sales here in the USA.  And the only reason to try to sell it in other countries, would be to dump the remaining non-moving stockFeb 13 01:11
cubezzzOEMs should _love_ LinuxFeb 13 01:11
cubezzzZune is just crap, don't give it a second thoughtFeb 13 01:12
MinceRnews end in 2006Feb 13 01:12
cubezzzhmmmFeb 13 01:12
cubezzzwho else makes a arm based desktop?Feb 13 01:13
MinceRdunnoFeb 13 01:13
MinceRobviously, acorn used toFeb 13 01:13
cubezzzI'd buy a motherboard for sure, with cpu Feb 13 01:14
Chips_B_Malroycubezzz>  They are called  Laptop PCs: Ultra Mobile PC (UMPC)  on Ebay here in the USA  Feb 13 01:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: eBay – Computers Networking, Apple Macintosh Computers and Desktop PC Components items on Find IT on eBay. .::. Size~: 117.55 KBFeb 13 01:19
oiaohmAt this stage there are not generic arm motherboardsFeb 13 01:19
Chips_B_Malroythey are not all ARM or Mips or LoogsonFeb 13 01:20
Chips_B_Malroysome are Intel in that catagoryFeb 13 01:20
MinceRLoongson is MIPS, isn't it?Feb 13 01:20
oiaohmmips/x86 hybred.Feb 13 01:21
oiaohmIe mips with extra instructions to help with x86 emulation.Feb 13 01:21
MinceRicFeb 13 01:23
Chips_B_Malroylast time I looked (been awhile) on Ebay its was all Windows CE krapFeb 13 01:24
schestowitz[01:07] <Chips_B_Malroy> They are dumping the Zune accessories firstFeb 13 01:25
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: the Microsoft spinner have a new lineFeb 13 01:25
schestowitzThey respond to it by saying fluff about "Zune phone"Feb 13 01:26
schestowitzWhich is nonsenseFeb 13 01:26
schestowitzPrepare for Microsoft to quit with honourFeb 13 01:26
schestowitzIt cannot give the impression that it suffered a defeat to AppleFeb 13 01:26
MinceRhow can they avoid that?Feb 13 01:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest Deception for Internet Explorer 8 and #Vista8 13 01:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Latest Deception for Internet Explorer 8 and Vista 8 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 88.19 KBFeb 13 01:27
MinceRthe rumors say winblows phone 7 is going to be crappier -- more like the hypePhone osFeb 13 01:27
schestowitzMinceR: spinFeb 13 01:27
schestowitzMinceR: no multitaskingFeb 13 01:28
schestowitzThey make it worseFeb 13 01:28
MinceRindeedFeb 13 01:28
schestowitzWorse if the new better :-)Feb 13 01:28
schestowitzLess is moreFeb 13 01:28
schestowitzThey've tried to improve it and failedFeb 13 01:28
MinceRif they also make it .net-only then they'll outdo hypePhone osFeb 13 01:28
schestowitzSo they've figured, "hey, let's try the opposite approach"Feb 13 01:28
MinceRmaybe that will be the key to victory? :>Feb 13 01:28
schestowitzMinceR: Monovell will love itFeb 13 01:29
MinceR"most crap, most expensive featurephone wins"?Feb 13 01:29
oiaohmThe .net only is already a failure.Feb 13 01:29
schestowitzMVP Miguel de Icaza will need his diapers changed (too muc excitement)Feb 13 01:29
oiaohm  << People love forgetting about this.Feb 13 01:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SPOT-light on Microsoft's SPOT Technology - Windows For Devices Articles - Windows for Devices .::. Size~: 65.89 KBFeb 13 01:32
Chips_B_MalroyMy take on WinMo7 is that its not so much for phones, but for those ARM computers on EBAY coming soon.Feb 13 01:32
oiaohmNow who do you know with a MS SPOT watch.Feb 13 01:32
Chips_B_MalroyBill GatesFeb 13 01:32
Chips_B_MalroyhadFeb 13 01:32
oiaohmNot even he wears one these days.Feb 13 01:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] OpenOffice 3.2 is *way* faster than 3.1. Calc startup from cold goes from 7 sec to 2 sec.Feb 13 01:32
Chips_B_MalroyClearly even Ballmer should know by now that WinMo is lost on phones, MS will never make money thereFeb 13 01:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] *Dramatisation of typical tweetFeb 13 01:34
MinceRwhy ebay?Feb 13 01:34
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Chips_B_MalroyMinceR>  EBAY, because M$ controls the OEM channel tightly here in the USA.  It is only place you likely at this point to by an ARM computer from overseas sellerFeb 13 01:37
MinceRicFeb 13 01:37
Chips_B_MalroyOEM's fear MS, righty soFeb 13 01:37
Chips_B_Malroysell OS/2, well you cost of a windows licence just went up by $10 perFeb 13 01:38
Chips_B_MalroyIBMFeb 13 01:38
schestowitz 13 01:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Start Page .::. Size~: 1.86 KBFeb 13 01:39
schestowitz 13 01:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Start Page .::. Size~: 3.04 KBFeb 13 01:39
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Chips_B_MalroyI noticed that Nick at M$ Watch, managed to get 14 comments on one of his articles, a record.  It was about the battery problems in Seven, all the comments had dead batteries.Feb 13 01:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Major fluke after a major case of unavailability affecting #Microsoft ’s volume licensing site #privacyFeb 13 01:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Leads Privacy Debate by (Bad) Example | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 83.64 KBFeb 13 01:49
Chips_B_Malroythe xp update that hosed systems.  MS found someone to blame, rootkits!  Yes they blame Malware again.  Sad thing is if Windows came off the self, more secure by default, its doubtful they would have anyone to blame but themselves.  As in MS created the problem in the first place by making the default install of windows, insecure.Feb 13 01:52
Chips_B_MalroyI can't say for sure, but it looked like the XBox360 space at Fry's shunkFeb 13 01:54
Chips_B_Malroymaybe half of what it wasFeb 13 01:55
Chips_B_Malroy*shrunkFeb 13 01:55
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cubezzzok, I just learned something :)Feb 13 01:59
cubezzznew router can't work with lynxFeb 13 02:00
cubezzzdi-604up not happy with lynxFeb 13 02:00
cubezzznew fangled devices let me down _again_Feb 13 02:01
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cubezzzback to normal, yayFeb 13 02:02
cubezzznot happy about losing functionality, but at least I know for certain it won't workFeb 13 02:03
cubezzzoiaohm was rightFeb 13 02:03
MinceRthe browser?Feb 13 02:06
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cubezzzlynx can't work properly with dlink router di-604upFeb 13 02:06
cubezzzit worked fine with the older di-704pFeb 13 02:06
cubezzzyesFeb 13 02:07
MinceRweirdFeb 13 02:07
Chips_B_Malroy  some more Silverlight/Moonlight Feb 13 02:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Numbers - MEPISlovers Forums .::. Size~: 96.45 KBFeb 13 02:07
Chips_B_MalroyI should have put that up when Jono was still hereFeb 13 02:08
cubezzzmaybe the text colour is black on black?Feb 13 02:10
cubezzzworth a try :)Feb 13 02:10
cubezzzlynx seems to want to always make the background blackFeb 13 02:11
Chips_B_Malroyits very fast (lynx) if you get it going, no images to loadFeb 13 02:11
cubezzzit seems to login as admin, then nothingFeb 13 02:12
Chips_B_Malroythere are several like it,  thinking elinks, or elynx tooFeb 13 02:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux 10.04 Search Page Links to #Microsoft Datacentres This saddens me greatlyFeb 13 02:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu GNU/Linux 10.04 Search Page Links to Microsoft Datacentres | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 85.02 KBFeb 13 02:15
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: it's easier to shun Silver LieFeb 13 02:16
schestowitzIts scarecely adoptedFeb 13 02:16
schestowitzSame with ActiveXFeb 13 02:16
schestowitzWe get by in GNU/Linux even w/o activexFeb 13 02:16
cubezzzw3m does the same thingFeb 13 02:17
schestowitzBanks know it's not supported by 40% of the browser users out thereFeb 13 02:17
schestowitzLet Silver Lie become abandonware like ShockwaveFeb 13 02:17
cubezzzstupid dlink :)Feb 13 02:17
cubezzzsurely Banks don't use flash or Silver whatever it's calledFeb 13 02:18
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, Silverlight might be gaining some.  I really hope it dies, as Adobe Flash is more open in the fact that they support most platforms.  I thought, comment #7 might be userfulFeb 13 02:20
cubezzzthis does mean I need X to configure my router thoughFeb 13 02:20
cubezzzI hope flash dies tooFeb 13 02:21
cubezzzit's just used to obfuscate thingsFeb 13 02:21
cubezzzmakes the browsers more likely to crashFeb 13 02:21
Chips_B_MalroyIf Silverlight dies, so won't Mono/Moonlight, IMOFeb 13 02:26
cubezzzwon't?Feb 13 02:28
cubezzzI don't know a single person who uses MoonlightFeb 13 02:29
Chips_B_Malroy*willFeb 13 02:29
cubezzzthat's what I thought you meant :)Feb 13 02:30
Chips_B_Malroythere is no real use of MoonlightFeb 13 02:30
Chips_B_Malroyunless you are into Silverlight advertisementsFeb 13 02:30
Chips_B_Malroyyou know, the punch Bush in the mouth ads, or wack a mole type that flash usedFeb 13 02:31
Chips_B_MalroyMoonlight is defective in that its really only going to show Silverlight advertisements, and no premo contentFeb 13 02:31
Chips_B_MalroyJust the way MS wanted itFeb 13 02:32
Chips_B_MalroyUSELESSFeb 13 02:34
Chips_B_Malroy 13 02:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Smart V7 Mobile Internet Device ( MID ) UMPC HDMI 1080P - eBay (item 330368696034 end time  Mar-14-10 08:00:21 PDT) .::. Size~: 109.96 KBFeb 13 02:45
Chips_B_Malroy$229Feb 13 02:46
Chips_B_MalroyAbout all I see there CubezzzFeb 13 02:47
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yuhongDid you see the comments to 13 02:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft is Bricking Windows XP | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.3 KBFeb 13 02:52
yuhongI actually agree with a troll here.Feb 13 02:52
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schestowitzWhat's Silver Lie written in?Feb 13 02:58
schestowitzRemember that Moblin is getting Silver Lie compiled for itFeb 13 02:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LiMo ( #Linux ) Player Sues #Microsoft and #Apple for #SoftwarePatent Violations 13 03:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: LiMo (Linux) Player Sues Microsoft and Apple for Software Patent Violations | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 88.3 KBFeb 13 03:07
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[aondo] Fully free GNU/Linux presentation: - thanks for a great talk.Feb 13 04:01
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: GLOG / Fully Free GNU/Linux Presentation .::. Size~: 30.51 KBFeb 13 04:01
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DaemonFCI am stuffed. fajita chicken taco salad...mmmmmmFeb 13 04:11
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Currently in #24camp with @sup3rkiddo :D #wootFeb 13 04:12
*DaemonFC is glad he is used to his grandmother being there at family events or it might not be digesting so wellFeb 13 04:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] wow, the Gwibber team seem to have heard the deafening complaints about the UIFeb 13 04:12
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DaemonFCheh, Terminator 2 in HD :)Feb 13 04:27
DaemonFCWOW!, One bug I filed on 3-30-09 in Ubuntu has been fixed, and not by Ubuntu, in DebianFeb 13 04:33
DaemonFCyayFeb 13 04:33
Aondo:)Feb 13 04:33
cubezzzwhy not just use Debian? :)Feb 13 04:34
DaemonFClow priority bug, just a useless disk write caused by crap being written to the WPA Supplicant log every 2 minutesFeb 13 04:34
DaemonFC:PFeb 13 04:34
DaemonFCits been changed to a debug message that's not going to be logged now :)Feb 13 04:35
cubezzzI'd rather be on wired Feb 13 04:35
DaemonFCalmost nobody would notice this, but it's best to minimize writes to the disk nonethelessFeb 13 04:36
DaemonFCespecially for SSDsFeb 13 04:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Alex Brown, Miguel de Icaza, and Full-time #Microsoft Employee Smear #ODF Again 13 04:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Alex Brown, Miguel de Icaza, and Full-time Microsoft Employee Smear ODF Again | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.3 KBFeb 13 04:36
DaemonFCit's one of those little eyesores that can gang up if not kept in checkFeb 13 04:36
DaemonFCI'm pedantic about what causes unnecessary disk activityFeb 13 04:38
DaemonFC 13 04:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bug #352118 in wpasupplicant (Debian): “WPA writes possibly unnecessary messages to the system log” .::. Size~: 61.52 KBFeb 13 04:39
DaemonFCI report it then several months later in Debian....Feb 13 04:39
DaemonFC 13 04:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: #539915 - wpasupplicant: Spams syslog with CTRL-EVENT-SCAN-RESULTS - Debian Bug report logs .::. Size~: 26.71 KBFeb 13 04:39
DaemonFCapparently the guy that patched my bug pinned the patch into the Ubuntu bug, no Ubuntu guys noticed or caredFeb 13 04:40
DaemonFCso he fixed it in Debian and now Ubuntu will be fixed in 10.04 cause of pulling in Debian Sid packages as their base :)Feb 13 04:41
DaemonFCmoral of the story is that you should fix things in Debian if you care how things work in UbuntuFeb 13 04:42
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 04:42
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Two more girls @AishwaryaMB and parkavin just joined us for #24campFeb 13 04:42
DaemonFCisn't that right, jono Feb 13 04:42
oiaohmThe normal upstream downstream problem.  DaemonFCFeb 13 04:57
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DaemonFCoiaohm, I've seen some rather massive patches hitting Mesa latelyFeb 13 05:02
DaemonFClike >500 linesFeb 13 05:02
DaemonFCsome well over 1500Feb 13 05:02
DaemonFCgives me some hope about it actually working soonFeb 13 05:03
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Now @cnu and lavanya joins us for #24campFeb 13 05:17
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "3 types of #code which are especially prone to have bugs: New code, complicated code, & rarely-used code" Colin Percival #security #freebsdFeb 13 05:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] wow looks like the winter #olympics got every single thing wrong. starting with the incumbent government. #harper #failFeb 13 05:52
DaemonFC 13 05:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ppa-purge in Launchpad .::. Size~: 14.9 KBFeb 13 05:55
DaemonFCI just had to use that to save my system from xorg-edgersFeb 13 05:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] No matter what I do, my wife has me pegged as a #nerd, not a #geek. C'est la vie, ehFeb 13 05:56
DaemonFCmaybe in France or CanadaFeb 13 06:03
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 06:03
oiaohmOk openoffice 3.2 really does move.Feb 13 06:04
*DaemonFC shakes oiaohm by the collarFeb 13 06:05
DaemonFCWhat's up with the vesafb.ko crap!? :PFeb 13 06:05
DaemonFCTell meeeeeeeee!!!!!Feb 13 06:05
DaemonFCI don't even use it, why is X complaining that it can't read it? :)Feb 13 06:05
cubezzzlook in your conf filesFeb 13 06:09
oiaohmNever had that problem DaemonFCFeb 13 06:13
oiaohm 13 06:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Python for S60 version 2.0 released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.42 KBFeb 13 06:15
cubezzzI've been getting this error for 6 years :)Feb 13 06:20
cubezzz(WW) Open APM failed (/dev/apm_bios) (No such device)Feb 13 06:20
cubezzzI don't lose any sleep over itFeb 13 06:20
cubezzzmail kernel: apm: disabled - APM is not SMP safe.Feb 13 06:22
cubezzzplusFeb 13 06:22
cubezzzACPI disabled because your bios is from 99 and too old :)Feb 13 06:22
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cubezzzdo I really need keybdev module?Feb 13 06:39
cubezzzlsmod says unusedFeb 13 06:39
DaemonFCI just don't get why it complains about things that don't even get loadedFeb 13 06:44
DaemonFClmao, cubezzz, I had to listen to my grandmother talking about Benny Hinn *facepalm*Feb 13 06:49
DaemonFC"His parents were Catholic, but they got saved before they died"Feb 13 06:49
cubezzz?Feb 13 06:49
DaemonFCI couldn't help but groan and mumble "And how exactly does that work?"Feb 13 06:50
DaemonFCshe looked annoyed at meFeb 13 06:50
DaemonFCChristians don't only hate others, they hate other ChristiansFeb 13 06:50
DaemonFCthat amuses meFeb 13 06:50
cubezzzuhh, yeah it's not supposed to work that wayFeb 13 06:51
cubezzzit's kind of like me making an anti-Ubuntu remarkFeb 13 06:51
DaemonFCcubezzz, I used to read those Chic tracts they pass out at her church, they're funnyFeb 13 06:52
DaemonFCthere's a global conspiracy of Satanists, Homosexuals, Jews, and Catholics plotting against the ProtestantsFeb 13 06:53
DaemonFC:DFeb 13 06:53
cubezzz 13 06:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Intolerance (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 60.34 KBFeb 13 06:53
cubezzzI'd suggest reading about Martin Luther if you want to understand ProtestantsFeb 13 06:54
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DaemonFCObviously not wanting to start a fight, I didn't mention that Protestantism is just a fork of Catholicism Feb 13 06:54
DaemonFCthat would have got her goingFeb 13 06:54
cubezzzshe might not understand what you mean by "fork"Feb 13 06:55
DaemonFCand Protestants also copied over some of the "pagan rituals" she's talking aboutFeb 13 06:55
DaemonFClike the Feast of the Undying Sun (Christmas)Feb 13 06:55
DaemonFCand EasterFeb 13 06:55
cubezzzI had lots of Catholic friendsFeb 13 06:55
cubezzzwe all got along fineFeb 13 06:56
DaemonFCProtestants are a fork of Catholics which are a co-fork of paganism alongside Islam and Judaism Feb 13 06:56
cubezzzI even have friends you use Windows 7 :)Feb 13 06:56
cubezzzyou=whoFeb 13 06:56
DaemonFCit's bad, cause everytime there's a fork, the religion gets purged of moderates and becomes a more refined hatred with more of a sense of purposeFeb 13 06:57
DaemonFCit's scaryFeb 13 06:57
DaemonFCevery once in a while the Mormons, the Protestants, and the Catholics have an orgyFeb 13 06:58
DaemonFClike the Prop 8 dealFeb 13 06:58
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DaemonFCinstead of throwing money towards ending world hunger or helping the homeless, they throw millions of dollars at making gay marriage illegal again in CaliforniaFeb 13 06:59
DaemonFCand that should really tell anyone where they're coming fromFeb 13 07:00
DaemonFChundreds of thousands of people across the world die every day of exposure or starvation, and we're worried about gay marriage?Feb 13 07:01
DaemonFCAfter that I decided that I never really wanted to be told again how much good the Christians do across the world.Feb 13 07:01
DaemonFCwhy can't they spend that money on mosquito nets to fight malaria?Feb 13 07:02
DaemonFCthis is the part where the libertarian argument that if we ended food stamps and medicaid that "private charity" would step up to the plate to fill inFeb 13 07:04
DaemonFC*falls apartFeb 13 07:04
DaemonFCthere's about enough private charity out there to account for about 0.5% of the public safety net's current loadFeb 13 07:06
DaemonFC 13 07:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Anne Mitchell, Whistle-Blowing Nurse, Is Acquitted in Texas - .::. Size~: 63.36 KBFeb 13 07:09
DaemonFCOne good thing the court system did today :)Feb 13 07:09
DaemonFCcubezzz, We need more laws to indemnify whistleblowers, and in some cases, have the witness protection program of the FBI protect themFeb 13 07:10
*DaemonFC would probably make a better politician than most of the ones we have :)Feb 13 07:11
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Good, @salva_eswar created a patch to fix cricscore applet, will test it by afternoon. #24campFeb 13 07:12
DaemonFC"Witnesses testified that they had heard Mrs. Mitchell refer to Dr. Arafiles, a proponent of alternative medicine and herbal remedies, as a “witch doctor.” "Feb 13 07:12
DaemonFCroflFeb 13 07:12
DaemonFCit's funny that every time they scientifically test these herbal witch doctor remedies, they end up finding that they do nothing except bilk people out of moneyFeb 13 07:14
DaemonFCoh these rotten bastards!!!!!Feb 13 07:17
DaemonFCI just downloaded 2 GB of movie and it's in SpanishFeb 13 07:17
oiaohmReally some herbal things turn out to be 100 percent right.Feb 13 07:17
oiaohmLike the old chinise med treatmean for liver failure.Feb 13 07:18
DaemonFCoiaohm, I have some beach front property in OklahomaFeb 13 07:18
DaemonFCprime real estate :DFeb 13 07:18
oiaohmOne of my relations are alive now due to the old chinise treatment.  By western medial they should have been dead in under 1 month.  Ok modern day medical don't understand it yet.   But here it used basically as the last option.   Feb 13 07:22
oiaohmDaemonFC: also people forget how many drugs we use today that were extracted from herbal remedies.Feb 13 07:23
DaemonFC 13 07:26
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DaemonFC:)Feb 13 07:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Scientology traffics in humans #anonymousFeb 13 07:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Video Gallery -- KTLA .::. Size~: 51.58 KBFeb 13 07:27
DaemonFC1 billion year Sea Org contractFeb 13 07:27
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 07:27
DaemonFCoiaohm, "alternative medicine" is basically just placebos and wishful thinkingFeb 13 07:30
DaemonFCnone of it really works, it's like believing in magicFeb 13 07:30
DaemonFC"garlic reduces your serum LDL cholesterol levels", it does marginallyFeb 13 07:31
DaemonFCbut if you're 66 points over then a 5-10 point decrease doesn't help you a lotFeb 13 07:31
DaemonFCyou take real medicine, it goes down more than the 66 pointsFeb 13 07:32
DaemonFCand takes your triglycerides down tooFeb 13 07:32
DaemonFCthe only thing to be said for the garlic is that the price is right :)Feb 13 07:33
oiaohmProper chinese herbalist will match or pass that.Feb 13 07:33
oiaohmReason some of the drugs used for that is based off there herbs.  DaemonFCFeb 13 07:34
oiaohmMind you I would prefer to take the western mediance over the chinese.  The western tastes way better.Feb 13 07:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Just tested the New Free/Libre RMS GNU/Linux distro V1.3 (Including KDE 3.5). Love IT! 13 07:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: RMS's Mostly Slax GNU/Linux-libre .::. Size~: 3.2 KBFeb 13 07:35
oiaohmRemember chinese herbalists have a full formal quals.    Biggest problem we have is a lot of people set up doing alternative medicina who don't know what they are doing.   Chinese herbalists use data got over a long time on what works and what does not.Feb 13 07:36
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Yummy!! #woot RT: @sup3rkiddo @anthoni_shogan sponsoring Pizzas for everyone, #24camp... Be there...Feb 13 07:37
DaemonFCthey use whatever you'll believe to sell you whatever you'll buyFeb 13 07:37
oiaohmChinese herbalists results have time and time again past inspection.Feb 13 07:38
oiaohmIf it does not pass modern day medical inspection they stop doing it.  DaemonFCFeb 13 07:39
oiaohm  More we get to understand Chinese herbalists.  The more drugs we find.   But lot of theres are a lot more complex.  Ie a + b +c the some heat produces a few new chemicals that are need to treat problem.Feb 13 07:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Medicinal mushrooms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 445.98 KBFeb 13 07:46
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Mmm Burger RT: @cnu @anthoni_shogan's pizza treat is postponed to burger treat at 5PM. #24campFeb 13 07:47
oiaohmDaemonFC: the bad part with grouping like alternative medicine is stuff that should not be treated badly gets mixed up with items that should be.Feb 13 07:54
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] #24camp RT: @cnu: So @yuvipanda means "Yuvraj Pandian" #discoveryFeb 13 08:22
DaemonFCoiaohm, noticed earlier, the "Windows Activation is Spyware" lawsuit got thrown outFeb 13 08:25
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] [pic] RT: @cnu all busy working at serendio for #24camp except @sup3rkiddo and @cnu 13 08:42
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] [pic] RT: @cnu another pic at serendio during #24camp 13 08:42
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] *Awesomeness* @sup3rkiddo made coffee for every one :DFeb 13 08:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitpic - Share photos on Twitter .::. Size~: 7.95 KBFeb 13 08:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitpic - Share photos on Twitter .::. Size~: 8.01 KBFeb 13 08:42
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oiaohmDaemonFC: yep now that MS won that they will step it up a level again.Feb 13 08:51
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DaemonFCthe mayor just fired 9 more people in the water and sewer departments and trash day will be biweekly nowFeb 13 09:15
DaemonFCyay capitalism, yay low taxes!Feb 13 09:15
DaemonFCthis could go on until there are no more public services unless you're rich enough to hire out :)Feb 13 09:16
DaemonFCthey still haven't laid off one single police officerFeb 13 09:16
DaemonFChave to make those marijuana bust quotas I guessFeb 13 09:17
*amarsh04 solved a problem of KDE 3.5.10 not starting up with KMS by simply inserting a "sleep 5" in /etc/init.d/kdm before actually running kdmFeb 13 09:17
DaemonFChehFeb 13 09:18
DaemonFCI'd rather just use GNOME than hang onto an abandonware version of KDE that was the last thing they put out that didn't suckFeb 13 09:18
amarsh04nothing like race conditionsFeb 13 09:18
DaemonFCsomething about the idea that the software I use will never be anything more than it is now doesn't sit well with meFeb 13 09:19
oiaohmSame fault can effect GDM as well DaemonFCFeb 13 09:19
oiaohmBasically video stack not ready for data. DaemonFCFeb 13 09:19
DaemonFCthey're going to "unofficially" carry a heavily patched KDE 3.5.10 in Ubuntu LucidFeb 13 09:19
oiaohmNothing that badly wrong with KDE 4.3Feb 13 09:20
DaemonFCoiaohm, I generally dislike some parts of KDE (if not officially part of it though)Feb 13 09:20
DaemonFCGstreamer beats Xine for exampleFeb 13 09:20
oiaohmBackend i am using from KDE 4.3 is GstreamerFeb 13 09:21
DaemonFCMandriva uses gstreamer in KDE by defaultFeb 13 09:21
oiaohmThe KDE standard default is gstreamerFeb 13 09:22
oiaohmfrom 4.3 on.Feb 13 09:22
DaemonFCXine is jut not easy to extend and there's no legal plugins for it for MPEG and WMAFeb 13 09:22
oiaohmSo if a distribution served you up xine by default that is there alteration.Feb 13 09:22
DaemonFCI'd like to try Slackware, I just never doFeb 13 09:23
DaemonFCespecially now that they have Slackware64Feb 13 09:23
oiaohmReally I would prefer a mplayer back end option for KDE.Feb 13 09:24
*Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)Feb 13 09:24
oiaohmThere are a lot of files I have that play perfect in mplayerhq yet fail with gstreamer or xine or vlcFeb 13 09:24
DaemonFCgstreamer always play what I throw at itFeb 13 09:27
DaemonFC*playsFeb 13 09:27
oiaohmI have a few low compression videos gstreamer hates.Feb 13 09:30
oiaohmResults of local 3d renders.Feb 13 09:30
oiaohmMy I am starting to see some eager patches.  People are starting to put forward patches for 2.6.34 even that 2.6.33 is not released yet.Feb 13 10:01
schestowitzwindow is closedFeb 13 10:21
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sebsebsebHiFeb 13 10:27
DaemonFCmorningFeb 13 10:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Google adopts new "Do, however, be stupid" policy 13 10:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google adopts new Do, however, be stupid policy | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 39.09 KBFeb 13 10:31
DaemonFClmao, I found the Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun soundtrack B-)Feb 13 10:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #TheLostSymbol, chapter 62 now!Feb 13 10:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ODF Roundup: News from Scandinavia, #OpenOffice .org 3.2, and #Symphony 3.0 Beta 2 2 13 10:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ODF Roundup: News from Scandinavia, 3.2, and Symphony 3.0 Beta 2 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.9 KBFeb 13 10:38
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Omar87Hi all.Feb 13 10:39
pawel_111hiFeb 13 10:39
pawel_111 13 10:39
oiaohmHi Omar87Feb 13 10:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Replicating memes  » Blog Archive   » Please dont rewrite softwares (that are) written in .NET .::. Size~: 19.72 KBFeb 13 10:39
Omar87Does my tweets appear even if I'm not connected to the channel?Feb 13 10:39
Omar87oiaohm, oh, hi!Feb 13 10:39
pawel_111some another mono evangelist which is a gnome dev (link)Feb 13 10:40
DaemonFC 13 10:40
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 10:40
DaemonFC 13 10:42
DaemonFClove these gamesFeb 13 10:42
DaemonFC 13 10:43
DaemonFClolFeb 13 10:43
pawel_111I find strange BN is against MS monopoly and unfairness, Novell unfairness and against Mono which is Windows API on Linux, but BN is not against Gnome started by Ximian and Icaza who's Mono, MS OOXML evangelist. Gnome is infected by Novell's Mono and Moonlight. There are also many pro MS, C# and OOXML advertisements at planet.gnome. From one side you're against all this MS bull, but it seems you support Gnome which is based on it. Strange IMHO.Feb 13 10:56
DaemonFCI use GNOME, I actually hate integration of apps, KDE seems to be one giant indigestible piece where by the time you're done you actually have the KDE version of an application and then the one you want to useFeb 13 10:58
DaemonFCand the first time you bring in something useful, it wants GTK+ libraries and such anywayFeb 13 10:58
DaemonFCThe Windows Way is to end up with two programs for every task because the one that came with Windows is useless or counterproductive and you can't get rid of itFeb 13 10:59
pawel_111DaemonFC: it seems Gnome devs are going to integrate Gnome desktopFeb 13 11:00
DaemonFCto me it seems like minimal overhead to have GNOME ShellFeb 13 11:00
pawel_111I'm talking about this .NETFeb 13 11:00
DaemonFCMono is actually not a dependency of anything important in GNOMEFeb 13 11:01
pawel_111Daemon: maybe not yetFeb 13 11:01
DaemonFCI think you'll lose Tomboy and F-Spot if you remove Mono from UbuntuFeb 13 11:01
pawel_111Daemon: then comes Banshee over Rhythmbox and who knows what will be next?Feb 13 11:02
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] As i don't want to go into 'seat of pants programming' , i started practising python #24campFeb 13 11:02
DaemonFCwell, people say the sky is falling in every time they make a mono version of a software category that already has ten others that are at least that goodFeb 13 11:02
DaemonFCI see it as, if they want to waste their time duplicating stuff and possibly get themselves sued, that's their problemFeb 13 11:03
DaemonFCI'm sure Canonical, Fedora, Mandriva, etc. HELL, even Debian, have more than a few lawyers that put their seal of approval on anything they doFeb 13 11:04
DaemonFCerr, Red Hat is responsible for everything Fedora does, and Red Hat has many lawyersFeb 13 11:04
pawel_111it seems those are .NET people who duplicate things, the same about Gnome - it copies from KDEFeb 13 11:04
DaemonFCit just seems to me as if "Maybe if that many corporate lawyers gave this the green light, maybe there is some over-reaction out there in the anti-mono crowd"Feb 13 11:05
pawel_111it seems one of the reasons Gnome is using .NET is because they want to catch up with KDEFeb 13 11:05
DaemonFCwell, I'm not a company with gazillions of dollars to lose, you aren't eitherFeb 13 11:06
DaemonFCand I'm not a lawyer, and I doubt you areFeb 13 11:06
pawel_111nope, I'm notFeb 13 11:06
DaemonFCand I'm not going to risk being sued over Mono, and neither are youFeb 13 11:06
pawel_111no, I'm talking about different thingFeb 13 11:06
DaemonFCwith Red Hat alone taking responsibility over shipping Mono, that puts a big doubt in my mind if mono is something to be afraid ofFeb 13 11:07
pawel_111I don't care about patents too muchFeb 13 11:07
DaemonFCand it's only stand-alone applications that depend on it, not GNOME itselfFeb 13 11:07
DaemonFCyou can replace anything that Mono has an app forFeb 13 11:08
oiaohmReally you have not listerned to the lead of mono.  pawel_111Feb 13 11:08
pawel_111some people lobby to use Gnome, to make it default in some core distros (it's already done), some Gnome dev was in charge in Fedora and he decided Gnome will be default, the same about Novell and Enterprise SuSeFeb 13 11:08
DaemonFCit's not like you're going to uninstall half of GNOME and make your system unbootable to get rid of MonoFeb 13 11:08
pawel_111oiaohm: why?Feb 13 11:08
oiaohmAt one point he went as far as saying the full gnome windows manager should be writen in .net.  pawel_111Feb 13 11:08
pawel_111oiaohm: yes, I heard thisFeb 13 11:09
DaemonFCat that point, I would leaveFeb 13 11:09
oiaohmThat caused lots of lead gnome developers to basically throw chairs at him.Feb 13 11:09
DaemonFCand that's probably got the _BASELESS_ accusation that GNOME-Shell is written in .Net going (It's NOT)Feb 13 11:09
DaemonFC*what gotFeb 13 11:09
oiaohmNow if mono techincal merts developers would not be able to rip shreds out of him.Feb 13 11:09
oiaohmEven I can rip shreds out of the lead of mono on techical grounds.Feb 13 11:10
oiaohmLot of what mono does makes it heavy on ram.Feb 13 11:10
DaemonFCthere's still the same ONE application in GNOME (the OFFICIAL GNOME) that depends on Mono, and that is Tomboy, and that has been there since 2006 and GNOME 2.16Feb 13 11:10
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 11:10
pawel_111oiaohm: yes, mono is RAM consumingFeb 13 11:10
DaemonFCand that will hold true in GNOME 3.0Feb 13 11:10
oiaohmWhat kind of ram it key as well.  pawel_111Feb 13 11:11
pawel_111DaemonFC: so the main problem is planet-gnome with their mono fanboysFeb 13 11:11
DaemonFCnow your distro may ship whatever they ship, but F-Spot and Banshee are not official GNOME projectsFeb 13 11:11
oiaohmThe kind of ram that has to go to swap when you run out of memory.  pawel_111Feb 13 11:11
DaemonFCGimp and Gthumb, and Rhythmbox areFeb 13 11:11
oiaohmgnote is also offical.Feb 13 11:11
DaemonFCRhythmbox didn't have official status in GNOME until the end of 2008Feb 13 11:11
DaemonFCit was considered a "fun extra" for agesFeb 13 11:12
oiaohmSo even sticking to offical you don't need to ship monoFeb 13 11:12
DaemonFCbut it was in every GNOME distro anywayFeb 13 11:12
DaemonFCoiaohm, Is Gnote still going? The author left it some time ago and apologized for the "appearance" that he was trying to undermine MonoFeb 13 11:12
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 11:12
pawel_111so, we've got Gnome and Mono apps made for Gnome?Feb 13 11:13
DaemonFCTomboy is some mega-bloatFeb 13 11:13
DaemonFCdisk writes every minute even if it's iflingFeb 13 11:13
pawel_111Tobmoy is a big cowFeb 13 11:13
DaemonFC44 MB of RAM idlingFeb 13 11:13
pawel_111exactlyFeb 13 11:13
DaemonFCsome distros even ship with it running!Feb 13 11:13
sebsebsebUbuntu likes it's Mono stuffFeb 13 11:14
oiaohmYes gnote is still going.  Last release was 31 of dec 2009  DaemonFCFeb 13 11:14
sebsebsebTom BoyFeb 13 11:14
sebsebsebF-SpotFeb 13 11:14
DaemonFCyou know, it's a little incomsiderate to people trying to poke along with 256 MB of RAM to have a note applet running taking about 1/6th of their RAMFeb 13 11:14
DaemonFC(Tomboy)Feb 13 11:14
oiaohmFedora/redhat developer picked it up DaemonFCFeb 13 11:14
sebsebsebFedora has got rid of Mono from the default installFeb 13 11:14
sebsebsebor whatever I read beforeFeb 13 11:14
oiaohmYep so gnote is the only good option they have for gnome envorment for note taking.Feb 13 11:15
pawel_111sebsebseb: I thought they don't ship moonlight, but they ship MonoFeb 13 11:15
DaemonFCpawel_111, Tomboy applet takes more RAM to start and run than Windows 98Feb 13 11:15
oiaohmFedora ships neither.  pawel_111Feb 13 11:15
DaemonFCthink about this for a minuteFeb 13 11:15
pawel_111DaemonFC: I know :)Feb 13 11:15
oiaohmmono and moonlight are both in breach of Fedora application policy.Feb 13 11:15
DaemonFCthen why are they there?Feb 13 11:16
pawel_111oiaohm: good to hear thisFeb 13 11:16
DaemonFCshouldn't the Fedora Mono Police come do something? :)Feb 13 11:16
DaemonFCI like Ubuntu more than I hate Mono and Yahell I supposeFeb 13 11:17
pawel_111I wonder why Gnome "people" don't do something which planet gnome, it's place for advertisement MS and Novel productsFeb 13 11:17
DaemonFCbut they are making it more difficult to justify using them when they do thisFeb 13 11:17
DaemonFCmy biggest beef with Mono is how bloated every app written with it isFeb 13 11:17
DaemonFCtaking at least a third more RAM than an app like that shouldFeb 13 11:18
pawel_111DaemonFC: I have the same feelingFeb 13 11:18
oiaohm 13 11:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Fedora 12 Alpha release notes - FedoraProject .::. Size~: 44.57 KBFeb 13 11:18
DaemonFCit's like we're trying to nudge the OS requirements up so that less people can use itFeb 13 11:18
oiaohmI like the justification away from the policy sheet.Feb 13 11:18
oiaohmCannot include mono because it takes too much space.Feb 13 11:19
pawel_111oiaohm: thanks for the linkFeb 13 11:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Lets hope for a better day of computing....providing O2 plays nicely.Feb 13 11:20
oiaohmThere is a application policy sheet around for fedora I cannot find at this time.Feb 13 11:20
oiaohmIt includes why particular codecs and the like are not default as well pawel_111Feb 13 11:21
pawel_111DaemonFC: yes, Gnome should be considered like less reasoruce consuming DE, but Mono make it slughishFeb 13 11:21
pawel_111oiaohm: yes, I read about this somewhereFeb 13 11:21
oiaohm  Like anyone is going to notice.Feb 13 11:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft phases out support for Netscape 4, so there | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 39.26 KBFeb 13 11:22
oiaohmI don't remember seeing netscape 4 in years.Feb 13 11:23
pawel_111oiaohm: I thougt it's dead alreadyFeb 13 11:24
oiaohmYet MS is PR tried to make it it a big thing.Feb 13 11:26
oiaohmNothing like MS PR being a laugh ever 3 months.Feb 13 11:26
oiaohmever/everyFeb 13 11:26
pawel_111oiaohm: yep :)Feb 13 11:27
oiaohm  OboyFeb 13 11:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] Ubuntu 10.04's Nouveau Stack Gets Ready .::. Size~: 16.47 KBFeb 13 11:28
oiaohmUbuntu developers thinking they are sane enough to back port a large patch set.Feb 13 11:28
oiaohmWhat is wrong with releasing a release with 2 kernels.Feb 13 11:29
oiaohmIe new features and old and stable.Feb 13 11:29
pawel_111this would be a great thing, 2.6.33 should be ready soonFeb 13 11:29
oiaohmYet ubuntu is going to stick to 2.6.32 and backport a huge patch set.Feb 13 11:30
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_GoblinbonjourFeb 13 11:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] This will piss of Flatfish ... RT: @Kletskous: How to run a sound studio on Gnu Linux: 13 11:31
_GoblinlolFeb 13 11:31
_Goblinthat Sound util argument still going on COLA?Feb 13 11:32
_Goblingreat stuff.Feb 13 11:32
pawel_111oiaohm: I forget, I read 2.6.33 should be easy instalable for new UbuntuFeb 13 11:32
pawel_111oiaohm: maybe from repository or rather from some ppaFeb 13 11:33
pawel_111Goblin: hiFeb 13 11:33
oiaohmPeople fail to think the Nouveau update does not only effect X11 it also effect Framebuffer.  Ie text mode.   pawel_111Feb 13 11:33
oiaohmBasically if it goes south it will go south in a big way.  pawel_111Feb 13 11:34
oiaohmSo personally I would have went for one kernel with it and one kernel without it.Feb 13 11:34
pawel_111this would be goodFeb 13 11:35
oiaohmBasically there is no logically good reason to back port something like NouveauFeb 13 11:36
DaemonFCNouveau will never be usable by most Nvidia usersFeb 13 11:36
oiaohmNever is a very long time.  DaemonFCFeb 13 11:36
DaemonFCthe ati driver is more or less done and Mesa is what's holding it backFeb 13 11:36
_Goblinpawel_111: Hi!Feb 13 11:37
_Goblinpawel_111: new vistor here?Feb 13 11:37
DaemonFCeven if Nouveau ever became useful to most Geforce owners, it still would suffer from whatever Mesa is lackingFeb 13 11:37
pawel_111Goblin: I came from time to time here :)Feb 13 11:37
pawel_111come*Feb 13 11:38
_Goblinpawel_111: ah...great stuff!  Nice to meet you.Feb 13 11:38
pawel_111it's nice to meet you tooFeb 13 11:38
DaemonFCwell, they had a choice, oiaohm Feb 13 11:38
DaemonFCno Nouveau or backport itFeb 13 11:39
oiaohmOr take the sane option.  DaemonFCFeb 13 11:39
DaemonFCcause it's not in 2.6.32 mainline, but 2.6.33 won't be supported for an extra long timeFeb 13 11:39
oiaohmExactly why. 2.6.33 will be out 2 months before the final release.Feb 13 11:39
DaemonFC2.6.32 is one of those rare special kernels that lives on for a couple years or moreFeb 13 11:39
DaemonFClast one was 2.6.27Feb 13 11:40
oiaohmYesFeb 13 11:40
oiaohmAbout every 5 versions.  or just over a year apart.Feb 13 11:40
oiaohmBut 2.6.32 is intented to be the stable for a while.Feb 13 11:41
oiaohmSo you really should not be messing with it.Feb 13 11:41
oiaohmOther wise maintainces patches to 2.6.32 will have to be tested against alterations.Feb 13 11:41
oiaohmAltering something like 2.6.33 that is not going to last as long is way less resource costing.Feb 13 11:42
oiaohmThat it is special class is another reason not to touch it.  DaemonFCFeb 13 11:43
_Goblindon't want to tempt fate but O2 seems ok todayFeb 13 11:43
DaemonFC 13 11:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] DirectX 10/11 Coming Atop Gallium3D .::. Size~: 15.81 KBFeb 13 11:46
DaemonFCDirectX coming to Linux? :DFeb 13 11:46
pawel_111DaemonFC: I read their forum and probably no :(Feb 13 11:49
oiaohmmaybe not that way.Feb 13 11:52
oiaohmBut there is a dx 9 for wine straight to Gallium3dFeb 13 11:52
oiaohmExpermient.Feb 13 11:53
schestowitzNovell got busted: 13 11:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Onondaga County's No. 8 fugitive captured hours after Top Ten list released | News from The Post-Standard -  .::. Size~: 59.06 KBFeb 13 11:57
schestowitzHey, here's some update I missed...Feb 13 11:58
schestowitz 13 11:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Groklaw - On Mono, Miguel, Stallman and Fusion with Microsoft .::. Size~: 214.1 KBFeb 13 11:58
schestowitz"Feb 13 11:58
schestowitz  Update: Jason Perlow has responded to this article in an audio discussion with Ken Hess. They agree that I do not understand that Miguel has to feed his family and pay his mortgage. I believe that is called the Yuppie Nuremberg Defense. I will quote from Wikipedia:Feb 13 11:58
schestowitz    In the Christopher Buckley novel Thank You for Smoking and its film adaptation, the main character Nick Naylor justifies his career to a reporter by telling her that "Everybody has a mortgage to pay," and referring to his response as the "Yuppie Nuremberg Defense".Feb 13 11:58
schestowitz"Feb 13 11:58
schestowitzA lot of society's ill boil down to spineless people who take down orders without questionFeb 13 12:02
schestowitzChains of commandFeb 13 12:02
schestowitz"Hey, I can be an arsehole cause I must feed my kids"Feb 13 12:02
cubezzzexcusesFeb 13 12:04
cubezzzone guy I met recently told me he would _never_ write proprietary softwareFeb 13 12:07
MinceR034739 < yuhong> I actually agree with a troll here.Feb 13 12:11
MinceRwow, surprise, surpriseFeb 13 12:11
cubezzzHe still uses doze obviouslyFeb 13 12:11
oiaohmThere are many ways to make money with Open Source development.Feb 13 12:12
oiaohmSome is being tech adverisers.Feb 13 12:12
DaemonFCI son't think that there's much money to be made in desktop Linux, Canonical will be doing well just to break even thereFeb 13 12:14
DaemonFCunless they can get some massive support contracts out there, they'll be doing good if they can figure out how to break evenFeb 13 12:14
cubezzzI'm doing Linux installs on Sunday :)Feb 13 12:14
oiaohmReally the Linux groups that break more than even.  Make hardware or have contracts with hardware makers.  DaemonFCFeb 13 12:15
cubezzzRed Hat makes moneyFeb 13 12:15
DaemonFCoiaohm, I never really got why they sent out free discs to desktop users?Feb 13 12:15
DaemonFCWhy not just say "here's the ISOs"?Feb 13 12:15
oiaohmUn paid for that.  DaemonFCFeb 13 12:16
oiaohmNot Canonical DaemonFCFeb 13 12:16
DaemonFCwhy would they back that?Feb 13 12:16
oiaohmCheep software for the third world.Feb 13 12:16
DaemonFCI think that's why they stopped offering the free 64-bit CDs?Feb 13 12:17
oiaohmYes the head of Canonical was a good line spinner.  DaemonFCFeb 13 12:17
DaemonFCthey must have noticed all the AMD64 discs were going out to first world countriesFeb 13 12:17
oiaohmI have not even noticed they did that.Feb 13 12:17
DaemonFClike as in, not the targetFeb 13 12:17
DaemonFCoh damn itFeb 13 12:18
DaemonFCComcast turned the DNS hijacker on AGAIN!!!!!Feb 13 12:18
DaemonFCmother fuckersFeb 13 12:18
cubezzz?Feb 13 12:20
pawel_111bye everyoneFeb 13 12:21
*pawel_111 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 13 12:21
DaemonFCcubezzz?Feb 13 12:21
DaemonFCthey have my service address in Bothell, WashingtonFeb 13 12:23
cubezzzFree Public DNS Server perhaps?Feb 13 12:23
cubezzz 13 12:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: OpenDNS | Internet Navigation And Security .::. Size~: 10.18 KBFeb 13 12:23
DaemonFCI live in Washington, they enrolled me in auto pay, and I'm back in their DNS hijackerFeb 13 12:30
DaemonFCwtf???Feb 13 12:30
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] ok, now koji build for metasploit works! Still a *lot* of things needs to be fixed #24campFeb 13 12:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: build (dist-f12, Metasploit-3.3.3-1.fc12.src.rpm) | Task Info | Koji .::. Size~: 5.68 KBFeb 13 12:32
DaemonFC"I need to transfer you to billing, I think you're seeing someone elses account information. Is there anything else I can do for you?"Feb 13 12:33
DaemonFCMe: "Yeah, give me this guys credit card number so I can go shopping."Feb 13 12:33
DaemonFC:PFeb 13 12:33
DaemonFCI think they billed my account balance to some guy in Washington...Feb 13 12:34
DaemonFCcause it says they took it out on the 8th and nothing was taken from my bankFeb 13 12:34
schestowitz 13 12:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: pavelmachek: Insult to the injury .::. Size~: 19.21 KBFeb 13 12:37
schestowitz 13 12:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: pavelmachek: Thinkpad x60: battery firmware killed my battery .::. Size~: 20.65 KBFeb 13 12:38
schestowitzSounds like Vista 7Feb 13 12:38
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DaemonFCschestowitz, Comcast is telling me I'm a different Ryan Farmer and I live in Washington and I have this other person's billFeb 13 12:44
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 12:44
oiaohmSome battery packs have a life counter.Feb 13 12:44
oiaohmIe so many charages then they are paper weights.Feb 13 12:44
oiaohmThis is to prevent charaging damage reaching critical and the pack expoding.Feb 13 12:45
oiaohmWe need some form of non bomb power storage.Feb 13 12:45
schestowitzDaemonFC: will you exploit this?Feb 13 12:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] needed O-ve blood in cochin immediately. Contact rupesh 09535120278 please RTFeb 13 12:49
DaemonFCschestowitz, I think I might have turned his auto bill pay and paper billing offFeb 13 12:50
DaemonFCoops :PFeb 13 12:50
DaemonFChe'll figure it out when there's a late fee and they turn something off I'm sure :DFeb 13 12:51
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DaemonFCVista7 – “The ‘Pay Up Sucka!’ starts now!” -Me on the new WAT updateFeb 13 13:00
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 13:00
oiaohmNot yet DaemonFCFeb 13 13:00
oiaohmWe we see WAT become standard in all new MS OS's even turning up as forced patches in old OS's.Feb 13 13:03
oiaohmthen the pay up Sucker is here.Feb 13 13:03
DaemonFCIn another move to stop sheeple from saying “pirate” as if there was any US law other than the Law of the Sea regarding pirates, Ryan bought a monkey, and equipped it with a taser. The shocky money’s first victim was…..(story to be continued)Feb 13 13:03
DaemonFChow's this? :)Feb 13 13:04
_GoblindeamonFC: You can't say "sheeple" use the word "pirate" like its a bad thing.Feb 13 13:05
_GoblinDaemonFC: have you read any latest "scene" .nfo files?Feb 13 13:05
_GoblinDaemonFC: they call themselves pirates.Feb 13 13:06
DaemonFC_Goblin, It's more tongue in cheek, I thinkFeb 13 13:07
DaemonFClike I may sarcastically call myself a pirateFeb 13 13:07
_GoblinDaemonFC: ah ok. It just some people like to think there is a problem using the term pirate, when infact there isn'tFeb 13 13:07
_GoblinDaemonFC: having said that, it would be nice if we had no piracy at all.Feb 13 13:08
DaemonFCthere's a problem with Microsoft calling people pirates as a shock wordFeb 13 13:08
DaemonFCand training others to parrot it in that senseFeb 13 13:08
_GoblinDaemonFC: really?  When the pirates refer to themselves as such?Feb 13 13:08
EruaranBillyG has been doing it since the days of the Homebrew computer clubFeb 13 13:08
_GoblinDaemonFC: you forget, these people get a kick out of being seen as outlaws.Feb 13 13:09
oiaohm;col1Feb 13 13:09
DaemonFCWhen there's a US law referring to unlicensed copying as "piracy", I'll reluctantly accept the label in that senseFeb 13 13:09
oiaohmGreat we might have a problem.Feb 13 13:09
EruaranHe always was a whining little dickFeb 13 13:09
DaemonFCuntil then, arrrrgh go fuck yerself matey!Feb 13 13:09
oiaohmUSA with protection from missles.Feb 13 13:09
_GoblinDaemonFC: like I say, if you have a problem with the word piracy, you better start by taking it up with the main "scene" could start with Fairlight, Skidrow, DRC, Axxo to name a few.Feb 13 13:10
DaemonFCthere's no legal framework in US law based around that term that does not solely apply to piracy of vessels at seaFeb 13 13:10
DaemonFCso until there is, I reject the validity of its use in an attacking senseFeb 13 13:10
EruaranBillyG copied the work of others, claimed he did a whole lot of work he didn't do, and then had the nerve to call other people pirates and thieves as he tried to threaten those who shared freelyFeb 13 13:10
_GoblinDaemonFC: its a word.....Feb 13 13:10
DaemonFC_Goblin, and if I was being sued and the judge said "pirate", I would correct him on his usage of the wordFeb 13 13:11
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 13:11
_GoblinDaemonFC: like the offence of "False representation" being referred to as identity obviously can't "steal" someones identity, merely use their details.Feb 13 13:11
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] How do you round a number in python using only int() function? #24campFeb 13 13:12
DaemonFCit's theft in the sense that it is valuable to you and they can cause you tangible harmFeb 13 13:12
_GoblinDaemonFC: its like Google being almost generic for searchFeb 13 13:12
_GoblinDaemonFC: its a name.Feb 13 13:12
_GoblinDaemonFC: what would you suggest then?Feb 13 13:12
_GoblinDaemonFC: to the judgeFeb 13 13:12
MinceRpirates are cool newFeb 13 13:12
MinceRs/new/nowFeb 13 13:12
MinceR/Feb 13 13:12
MinceRjust like ninjasFeb 13 13:12
DaemonFCmaking a copy of an MP3 for myself is not the same as stealing someone else's identity and preying on their creditFeb 13 13:13
_GoblinDaemonFC: never said it was, I was giving an example of use of a different set of words to describe an action.Feb 13 13:13
DaemonFCanyway, nobody is calling them identity piratesFeb 13 13:13
DaemonFCthat's where it'd be a stretchFeb 13 13:13
_GoblinDaemonFC: what would you suggest then to the judge?Feb 13 13:13
EruaranDaemonFC: MP3? pfft, you could at least use FLACFeb 13 13:13
DaemonFC_Goblin, Unlicensed copierFeb 13 13:13
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 13:14
_GoblinlolFeb 13 13:14
_Goblinand that is just an ambigiousFeb 13 13:14
_Goblin*asFeb 13 13:14
_Goblin*and I cant spell ambigiousFeb 13 13:14
_Goblinhow about......Feb 13 13:14
EruaranIt is legal to make back up copies of materials you have purchasedFeb 13 13:14
_Goblin"Theft of revenue"Feb 13 13:14
DaemonFCEruaran, and MP3 is catch all for all digital audio :)Feb 13 13:14
MinceRambiguousFeb 13 13:14
MinceR_Goblin: that would be theft of moneyFeb 13 13:15
EruaranDaemonFC: Audiophiles everywhere are offended nowFeb 13 13:15
Eruaran;)Feb 13 13:15
_Goblinyes but on the understanding if you hadn't copied it you would have bought it?Feb 13 13:15
MinceRwho said i would have bought it?Feb 13 13:15 would be for the person to prove if they were to buy it or not.Feb 13 13:15
MinceRusually i had no idea it's worth getting until after the fact :>Feb 13 13:15
EruaranThis reminds meFeb 13 13:15
EruaranI haven't streamed anything from Magnatune in agesFeb 13 13:16
DaemonFCI suppose if I got on the pirate bay and searched for FLACs to download in an unlicensed fashion, one would say I was "Googling for MP3s to pirate!!!!! zOMG!!!!!"Feb 13 13:16
DaemonFC;)Feb 13 13:16
MinceR:>Feb 13 13:16
MinceRexcept google is allowed to do what TPB isn'tFeb 13 13:16
_Goblincan I correct you DaemonFC....certainly in the UK filesharing is Unlawful not Illegal.Feb 13 13:16
DaemonFCyeah, you can search Google for torrentsFeb 13 13:16
DaemonFCit's my favorite wayFeb 13 13:16
Eruaranfilesharing unlawful?Feb 13 13:16
Eruaranaren't unlawful and illegal the same thing?Feb 13 13:17
_Goblinno...not really....Feb 13 13:17
DaemonFCEruaran, Maybe he means it's unlegalFeb 13 13:17
_Goblinthere is no criminal statute for filesharingFeb 13 13:17
DaemonFCB-)Feb 13 13:17
EruaranHow is filesharing unlawful?Feb 13 13:17
_Goblinbecause it is in breach of copyright law.Feb 13 13:17
EruaranDaemonFC: illawful?Feb 13 13:17
DaemonFCmmhmFeb 13 13:17
EruaranI didn't say anything about copyrightFeb 13 13:17
_Goblinas I say, there is no criminal offence of filesharing per say.Feb 13 13:18
MinceRunlegal?Feb 13 13:18
_Goblinit would be the circumstances....Feb 13 13:18
_Goblinlet me cite an example....Feb 13 13:18
DaemonFC_Goblin, so you can be sued for it but it's not a criminal offenseFeb 13 13:18
DaemonFCsame hereFeb 13 13:18
_GoblinyepFeb 13 13:18
_Goblincan people remember when the phantom menace was leaked 2 weeks early to a bt tracker?Feb 13 13:18
EruaranThere is plenty of content that can be shared that is not subject to copyright claimFeb 13 13:18
_Goblincan people also remember that the person was arrested?Feb 13 13:19
DaemonFC_Goblin, All three of them wereFeb 13 13:19
DaemonFCand I watched all three of them earlyFeb 13 13:19
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 13:19
_Goblinin that case the arrest was for the physical theft of the media from the studio....not the filesharing of the torrent.Feb 13 13:19
_Goblinand I believe the charge was for theft employee.Feb 13 13:19
_Goblinand the subsequent conviction.Feb 13 13:20
DaemonFC_Goblin, couldn't the guy copy it onto something else?Feb 13 13:20
DaemonFCnot physically steal anythingFeb 13 13:20 would the be original theft of media from the studio.Feb 13 13:20
_Goblinphysical media, not data.Feb 13 13:20
DaemonFCthat would make it civil though, right?Feb 13 13:20
_Goblinthe filesharing part, yesFeb 13 13:20
DaemonFCno, I mean copy it onto something he ownsFeb 13 13:20
DaemonFCthen leave the studioFeb 13 13:21
_Goblinif that had been the case yes.Feb 13 13:21
_Goblinbut thats not what happened.Feb 13 13:21
DaemonFCit's what I would have doneFeb 13 13:21
_Goblinanother example...Feb 13 13:21
_GoblinTPBFeb 13 13:21
_Goblinthe offence was financial matters related to the site....the rest would have been civil in the UK.Feb 13 13:22
_Goblinif it had been a UK case.Feb 13 13:22
DaemonFC_Goblin, Stealing the CD is a crime, buying it and then making a billion copies is a civil matter :)Feb 13 13:22
_Goblinno.Feb 13 13:22
_Goblinmoney involved.Feb 13 13:22
DaemonFCnot if you rip it and make a torrent, right?Feb 13 13:22
DaemonFCyou're not selling thatFeb 13 13:23
_Goblinselling copied material is very different from merely sharing in a swarm (in law)Feb 13 13:23
DaemonFCI have tons of CD cover images that say "Made in EU" on them, lolFeb 13 13:23
_Goblinand you know the legislation used when tackling the selling of copied material (here in the UK)?Feb 13 13:24
DaemonFCno ideaFeb 13 13:24
_GoblinDesigns and patents act 1988Feb 13 13:24
*Eruaran has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 13 13:25
_Goblinhaving said that, I have always said ISP's should be licensed and responsible for the data that goes through their servers....Feb 13 13:26
_Goblinthat way civil actions would be on the ISP....and the ISP's would be forced to self regulateFeb 13 13:26
_Goblinwhich they can do now, because most of you have signed all your privacy away on your T&C of your ISP.Feb 13 13:27
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_GoblinI certainly have with O2/Feb 13 13:27
_GoblinIve pretty much agreed for them to monitor my usage in as intrusive and covert way as they want.Feb 13 13:28
Eruaranhmm Feb 13 13:28
_Goblinfrom memory it was Sec(14) of my T&CFeb 13 13:28
Eruaraninstalled updates and got booted out of xFeb 13 13:28
_GoblinI don't suppose any other ISP is that different.Feb 13 13:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Off to see friends at the local LUG meetingFeb 13 13:33
_GoblinWhen FOSS advocacy gets confused...Feb 13 13:35
_Goblinheres what a FOSS user has to say about Google:Feb 13 13:35
_Goblin"they seemed to forget the purpose of what Google has been doing. Google is all about open source software and providing help"Feb 13 13:35
_Goblinyeah....Feb 13 13:35
_Goblinreality check....Feb 13 13:35
_GoblinGoogle wants to make money like anyone else.Feb 13 13:35
_GoblinGoogle all about open source and providing help? ....maybe they are but in future I don't think its going to be as "free" and "open"...Feb 13 13:36
schestowitz_Goblin: file sharing is as legal as food sharingFeb 13 13:37
_Goblinlol...Feb 13 13:37
schestowitzWhat's actually in those file is another matterFeb 13 13:37
schestowitzPossession of copyrighted material not paid forFeb 13 13:38
_Goblinso I can come into your kitchen take your bread and share it with my mates?Feb 13 13:38
_Goblin;)Feb 13 13:38
_Goblinthats actually it doesn't count.Feb 13 13:38
_Goblinsorry no its not it may be burglary.Feb 13 13:38
schestowitz“As long as they are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours.” -Bill GatesFeb 13 13:38
_Goblin9(1)a or b depending on when intention was formed.Feb 13 13:38
schestowitz_Goblin: noFeb 13 13:39
schestowitznot /my/ kitchenFeb 13 13:39
schestowitzYoursFeb 13 13:39
_GoblinI was being flippant....Feb 13 13:39
_Goblinvery naughty comment there roy.Feb 13 13:39
_Goblin;)Feb 13 13:39
schestowitzThe economics of physical matter are differentFeb 13 13:39
schestowitzI can share my bread with youFeb 13 13:39
_Goblincomparing the sharing of food to data....Feb 13 13:39
schestowitzLikewise, I can share a file that's mineFeb 13 13:39
_Goblinnaughty naughty!Feb 13 13:39
schestowitzIf it's copyrighted, that's a different matterFeb 13 13:40
_GoblinahFeb 13 13:40
_GoblinI see.Feb 13 13:40
schestowitzThen it's not the sharing that's the problemFeb 13 13:40
schestowitzIt's about you having ownership of something with supposed ownershipFeb 13 13:40
schestowitzP2P is not illegalFeb 13 13:40
_Goblinthats what ive been sayingFeb 13 13:41
schestowitzSharing copyrighted material on the protocol/s isFeb 13 13:41
_Goblinnot really.Feb 13 13:41
_Goblinits unlawfulFeb 13 13:41
_Goblintheres a difference.Feb 13 13:41
_Goblinwhat people don't realize is that there is no criminal offence for merely sharing a file.Feb 13 13:41
_Goblinits why filesharing gets you to civil court and TPB goes to criminal.Feb 13 13:42
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Had chicken burger , hackin still on ;-) #24campFeb 13 13:42
schestowitz"Stolen's a strong word. it's copyrighted content that the owner wasn't paid for." Bill Gates, June 2006Feb 13 13:42
schestowitzHypocrite.Feb 13 13:42
_GoblinTPB involved money and if it was in the UK more relevant to the designs and patents act of 1988Feb 13 13:42
schestowitzHe says "stolen" a lotFeb 13 13:42
_Goblinstolen revenue?Feb 13 13:42
schestowitzRevenue can't be stolen eitherFeb 13 13:43
schestowitzWhat is revenue?Feb 13 13:43
_Goblinit can be taken away.Feb 13 13:43
Eruaranschestowitz: its because stealing is something BillyG understands ;)Feb 13 13:43
schestowitzIt's exchangeable with physical good that can be stolenFeb 13 13:43
schestowitzWe need to use the proper termsFeb 13 13:43
_GoblinRoy....Feb 13 13:43
schestowitzI can't steal your thoughtFeb 13 13:43
schestowitzI also can't steal your karmaFeb 13 13:43
EruaranI am stealing your thoughtsFeb 13 13:43
EruaranCan you feel the sucking motion?Feb 13 13:43
_Goblindidn't you use the word "stolen" when reporting about the plurk case?Feb 13 13:44
_Goblinmaybe you didn't....Feb 13 13:44
schestowitzEruaran: yes. "The best way to prepare is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating systems." -Bill GatesFeb 13 13:44
_Goblinmany did though.Feb 13 13:44
schestowitz_Goblin: I didn'tFeb 13 13:44
_Goblinits an emotive word, but its one which can quantify the act to the general populas...Feb 13 13:44
schestowitzI also call the MAFIAA "recording industry'Feb 13 13:44
schestowitzbecyase they don't make musicFeb 13 13:45
schestowitzThey are not the music industryFeb 13 13:45
schestowitzBPI is not the music industryFeb 13 13:45
_Goblinas I was saying to DaemonFC the word pirate and piracy is used by the "scene" groups who distribute/crack the material....Feb 13 13:45
schestowitzit's moguls who monetise musicians or their front at leastFeb 13 13:45
_Goblinthats true...Feb 13 13:46
_Goblinalthough thats their battle not ours.Feb 13 13:46
schestowitzThey record well, don't get me wrongFeb 13 13:46
schestowitzThey also advertise and distributeFeb 13 13:46
EruaranAnyone can record well these daysFeb 13 13:46
schestowitzBut it's business, it's not artFeb 13 13:46
schestowitzEruaran: many doFeb 13 13:46
schestowitzThat's why the recording indutry is dyingFeb 13 13:46
schestowitzNot because music is dyingFeb 13 13:47
Eruarana studio in a box is not expensiveFeb 13 13:47
schestowitzBecause the mediator and its "$15 per album" model is dyingFeb 13 13:47
schestowitzIt's a business model, not a music genreFeb 13 13:47
EruaranhehFeb 13 13:47
EruaranIf they charged only $15 they still might have a businessFeb 13 13:47
_GoblinEruaran: but then you are forgetting about all the other parts, promotion, tours, advertising, magazine reviews, interviews, logistically I would expect there is much work behind the scenes.Feb 13 13:47
schestowitzUSDFeb 13 13:47
EruaranOne of their downfalls has been their greedFeb 13 13:48
schestowitzNot AUDFeb 13 13:48
schestowitzbrbFeb 13 13:48
Eruaran_Goblin: indeed, but it depends on what you want in a tourFeb 13 13:48
_GoblinI was meaning more staff to organize it all.Feb 13 13:48
EruaranIt just means you have to do it yourselfFeb 13 13:49
_Goblina sinble person could make the track, but what about everything else that is needed in relation to push it...Feb 13 13:49
_Goblinand keep in mind.....Feb 13 13:49
_Goblinif everyone was doing it by themselves, would we not be lost in a sea of self promotion and may miss out on the real classics.Feb 13 13:50
_Goblinlet me give an example....Feb 13 13:50
_GoblinGamemaker..Feb 13 13:50
EruaranI went and saw The Church play in Melbourne just before Christmas last year. They were great.Feb 13 13:50
_Goblinthat package allows people to make games all by themselves with little skill....Feb 13 13:50
EruaranI purchased their latest album Feb 13 13:50
_Goblinyou then get a flood of titles mostly rubbish.Feb 13 13:50
EruaranI mention them because they are independent Feb 13 13:50
_Goblinyes, but it sort of mirrors the argument....Feb 13 13:51
_Goblinif everyone gets a degree, the degree is worthless.Feb 13 13:51
EruaranThey recently completed highly successful tours of the US and AustraliaFeb 13 13:51
EruaranTheir latest album has won critical acclaimFeb 13 13:51
EruaranThere are no major record labels involvedFeb 13 13:51
_Goblinbut thats one of maybe millions of indi bandsFeb 13 13:52
EruaranNo massive promotion from themFeb 13 13:52
_GoblinIm in a band.Feb 13 13:52
_Goblinbut it aint going nowhere.Feb 13 13:52
EruaranAnd they are the real thingFeb 13 13:52
oiaohm 13 13:52
_GoblinI am sure they are....but the breakout sucess stories happen in every industry...for the majority it wont work like that.Feb 13 13:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: HP tips more details on Android netbook - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 62 KBFeb 13 13:53
EruaranNot all bands go anywhere... and again, it depends on what you're in it forFeb 13 13:53
oiaohm 13 13:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Embedded Xeon CPUs have integrated I/O - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 62.42 KBFeb 13 13:53
_Goblinfor me its just a laugh and we raise a little money for charitities at work do's.Feb 13 13:53
_Goblin*charities.Feb 13 13:54
EruaranMusic and great musicians existed and enjoyed great success long before the recording industry oligarchy, and will continue long after they have goneFeb 13 13:54
_Goblindoh.Feb 13 13:54
_Goblinyes but in todays media rich and comercial world, its those that shout the loudest who are the breakouts....often they are the ones backed with the money to do the loudest shouting...Feb 13 13:55
EruaranIf people cant see past the recording industry paradigm, it just means that's where their heads are at, its a prison of the mindFeb 13 13:55
_Goblinits all to do with time though isn't it?Feb 13 13:55
_Goblinmost of us don't have the time to search for great music that may exist without the backing of large studios.Feb 13 13:56
EruaranSuccess is usually a matter of time and love more than talent aloneFeb 13 13:56
_Goblinagreed fully.Feb 13 13:56
_Goblinhaving said that....Feb 13 13:56
_Goblinlily allen?Feb 13 13:56
EruaranroflFeb 13 13:56
_Goblinsorry going have to go AFK for a while....Eruaran, great debate....see ya later.Feb 13 13:57
EruaranbbFeb 13 13:57
EruaranIts a bit sad that all most poeple know The Church for is "Under The Milky Way"Feb 13 13:59
EruaranSuch a a great band that has created so many great albumsFeb 13 13:59
EruaranBut then... if they were "too famous" I would never have gotten to see them in the intimate setting of the Corner Hotel in MelbourneFeb 13 14:00
EruaranWhat a great night that wasFeb 13 14:00
schestowitzThe MAFIAA handpicks bands for obedienceFeb 13 14:01
schestowitzThen we get dumbasses like Lily Allen telling us that artists love the MAFIAA lineFeb 13 14:01
schestowitzBecause she's among those %0.001 who get picked by the MAFIAA to make some doughFeb 13 14:02
schestowitzThey only want to project this illusion of compensated artists, as long as they give voice to less than 100 rich onesFeb 13 14:02
schestowitzWhat they do is monopoliseFeb 13 14:02
schestowitzEveryone listens to the Justins and BritneysFeb 13 14:03
schestowitzBillions of timesFeb 13 14:03
schestowitzWhereas other smaller artists get little or no exposureFeb 13 14:03
Eruaranlol I wont repeat what Steve Kilby said last year about the MAFIAA Feb 13 14:03
schestowitzThey control what music goes on MTV and what's available at "Fine" record stores (shelf space)Feb 13 14:03
EruaranIn essence, "F*#& those guys"Feb 13 14:03
schestowitzEruaran: 13 14:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Courtney Love does the math - .::. Size~: 96.21 KBFeb 13 14:04
schestowitzFamous articleFeb 13 14:04
Eruaran(Steve Kilby is lead singer and bass player for The Church)Feb 13 14:05
Eruaranshe'd know about itFeb 13 14:06
Eruaran"they can pay the mortgage forever but they'll never own the house" - Goddamn right Feb 13 14:14
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] cricscore applet is being enhanced here by @salva_eswar and *me* in #24campFeb 13 14:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: cricscore-originalsource in cricscore-gnomeapplet - Gitorious .::. Size~: 12.81 KBFeb 13 14:27
schestowitzServicing the lenderFeb 13 14:39
schestowitzAnd they never give singers copyrights to their work, eitherFeb 13 14:40
schestowitzSo they can die without owning their own music... while the MAFIAA makes a cash cow from it for 90+ yearsFeb 13 14:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @deathboyuk Someone commission a show called @bengoldacre Tears Folks a New Arsehole. Co-host it with @charltonbrooker + Frankie Boyle.Feb 13 14:57
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSUSE at #FOSDEM 2010, 11.3 Milestone 1, and #BuildService 1.7 13 15:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell News Summary  Part I: OpenSUSE at FOSDEM 2010, 11.3 Milestone 1, and Build Service 1.7 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.22 KBFeb 13 15:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] .@WiredUK just be glad you're not manning the @fromPaperChase twitterFeb 13 15:11
DaemonFC 13 15:18
DaemonFCheheFeb 13 15:18
DaemonFC 13 15:20
DaemonFCYou are the Duke of New York, you are A number 1!Feb 13 15:20
DaemonFCheheFeb 13 15:20
DaemonFCif I ever do get Blu Ray, this is going to be on my top 10Feb 13 15:22
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Working on a OOo Impress presentation about ATI/Nvidia GPU's for my Lover. He needs it for school, hope his M$ Orifice will swallow it.Feb 13 15:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @glynmoody Effort to trace 'conflict minerals' in electronics - most of us a oblivious to this (via @asteris)Feb 13 15:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Effort to trace 'conflict minerals' in electronics | Green Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 76.29 KBFeb 13 15:34
Omar87tessier, pingFeb 13 15:37
Omar87Hi all.Feb 13 15:37
Omar87Greetings folks! :DFeb 13 15:37
MinceRhayFeb 13 15:39
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Closing #24camp after review! Good outcome , packaged* metasploit and made some patches for cricscore appletFeb 13 15:42
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] With anonymous twitter, now i can curse my *future* girlfriend :D #24camp 13 15:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 24camp | Project / AnonymousTwitter  .::. Size~: 7.77 KBFeb 13 15:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Just gave a talk at the LUG about my "Tinbox Distro". Seemed to go well.Feb 13 15:43
_GoblinbackFeb 13 16:03
schestowitzwhat's up?Feb 13 16:11
MinceRsky and ceiling. how you feeling?Feb 13 16:12
schestowitzIt's gowin downFeb 13 16:13
DaemonFC 13 16:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 2010 (episode) - Stargate Wiki - Universe, Atlantis, SG-1 .::. Size~: 60.93 KBFeb 13 16:16
DaemonFClolFeb 13 16:16
DaemonFCthey get progressively darker after that...Feb 13 16:17
MinceR:)Feb 13 16:17
DaemonFCthere was going to be a Stargate SG-1 PC game, but they canceled it :(Feb 13 16:18
DaemonFC 13 16:24
Omar87Hello everyone!Feb 13 16:24
DaemonFC"We didn't want to pay an extra $2.50 a week, but now we're pissed that the garbage pickup is only twice a month!"Feb 13 16:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Oh golly. I have just witnessed an Ubuntu Lucid laptop boot to login in 5 seconds. Lots of smiling.Feb 13 16:24
DaemonFCthat's the people that live around meFeb 13 16:24
Omar87schestowitz, I'm thinking of talking to G. Moody regarding the ImaginaCuff thing, what do you think?Feb 13 16:24
DaemonFCthe Teabaggers who don't want to pay taxes but want all the city utilitiesFeb 13 16:25
Omar87DaemonFC, what are you talking about?Feb 13 16:26
DaemonFCOmar87, People that don't want to pay taxes but want all the things that tax revenue providesFeb 13 16:26
DaemonFCit's like they think the city services "tooth fairy" comes in from pixie land every Monday morning to take their trash for freeFeb 13 16:27
Omar87DaemonFC, okay, but you do realize that the number of homeless people are increasing, don't you?Feb 13 16:27
DaemonFCthey don't get that running a landfill and hiring garbage removal workers costs moneyFeb 13 16:28
Omar87is* increasingFeb 13 16:28
schestowitzOmar87:  go for him. I'd love to see Glyn covering itFeb 13 16:28
DaemonFCOmar87, $10 a month isn't going to break most of the people that are complaining about getting trash pickups slashed in halfFeb 13 16:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Checking out Buzz....this is hard to keep, Twitter, Wave, Buzz, Newsgroups, IRC....and of course boring ol email!Feb 13 16:28
Omar87DaemonFC, I don't think it's just about the $10 a month though.Feb 13 16:29
DaemonFCmost of the people bitching are (A) rich or (B) spend that much in their first 10 minutes at the bar every night.Feb 13 16:29
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 16:29
DaemonFCOmar87, If we're struggling so damned bad, where does the money for 20-some odd bars come from?Feb 13 16:29
DaemonFCthese people drink and smoke all of their money then bitch about garbage removal taxesFeb 13 16:30
Omar87DaemonFC, I can only agree with you about this one.Feb 13 16:30
DaemonFCa lot of these people are constantly in trouble (of their own doing) no matter how much money they makeFeb 13 16:31
DaemonFCmy grandfather on my dad's side worked at GM for decades, made all kinds of money, spent every cent drinking or smokingFeb 13 16:32
DaemonFCmade about $20 an hour in 1960, but no food in the house for his familyFeb 13 16:32
Omar87It's very pathetic to see someone nagging the government about the high prices and high tax rates, but then his entire salary is spent on smoking and drinking.Feb 13 16:33
DaemonFCit got to the point where my grandmother had to get some shrimp out of the fridge that he had bought for fish bait, and fry it up for the kids to eatFeb 13 16:33
DaemonFCthen he found out there was no fish bait (while drunk) and beat herFeb 13 16:33
DaemonFCand the world is full of people just like that, who create their own personal hell, just like thatFeb 13 16:34
*schestowitz out fishing (no just going the the gym)Feb 13 16:34
Omar87DaemonFC, oh my God..!Feb 13 16:34
Omar87schestowitz, enjoy your time. :)Feb 13 16:34
DaemonFC:PFeb 13 16:35
DaemonFCOmar87, Then there's my personal favorite, people who are religious, but don't actually live up to the standards they judge other people byFeb 13 16:35
DaemonFCtheir religious "laws" only matter when it's not applied to themFeb 13 16:36
Omar87DaemonFC, I agree with that too.Feb 13 16:36
DaemonFCthat would be representative of my grandparents on my mom's sideFeb 13 16:37
Omar87DaemonFC, unfortunately there are lots of people like this. Even in our Muslim world.Feb 13 16:37
DaemonFCso my parents are the products of being raised by drunk and dysfunctional homes, or religiously dysfunctional homesFeb 13 16:37
DaemonFCand that's why I don't have any tolerance for either kind of people, because I've seen what psychological effects that has on people who have to live with it for 18 years of their life :)Feb 13 16:38
DaemonFCOmar87, and how much will the Muslim community tolerate of that before they kill someone for embarrassing them?Feb 13 16:39
DaemonFC:DFeb 13 16:39
DaemonFCof course I guess I may prefer being beheaded to getting nagged til I wish I was deadFeb 13 16:40
Omar87DaemonFC, I'm not embarrassed at all. :)Feb 13 16:40
Omar87DaemonFC, you have to understand, that what Muslim people do does not necessarily represent the teachings of the Islamic faith.Feb 13 16:41
Omar87Actually, it does not represent it at all.Feb 13 16:42
DaemonFCOmar87, But it's also not uncommon to distance oneself from the wrongdoings of the vast majority ;)Feb 13 16:42
DaemonFClike "I'm not with them!" *points* They actually make up only a few of us. (Really more like 80%)Feb 13 16:43
DaemonFCyou get that with the Christians around hereFeb 13 16:43
Omar87DaemonFC, I see.Feb 13 16:43
Omar87DaemonFC, do you know that the Christian faith clearly states that women must wear head scarfs?Feb 13 16:44
DaemonFCIf I was part of a group that I had to keep doing nothing but apologizing for or distancing myself from for shame, I may re-examine my membership. (and I did)Feb 13 16:44
Omar87DaemonFC, but yet the only Christian women who head scarfs these days are the sisters.Feb 13 16:45
DaemonFCOmar87, There's Catholics here, which I don't really like too well because they do whatever they want to do and then go to confessions. :) And you have Protestants who tend to believe there's this vast network of Catholics, Satanists, Muslims, Atheists, and homosexuals out there plotting against them. Oh, and did I mention Wiccans? (Wiccans, Satanists, same thing!)Feb 13 16:46
Omar87DaemonFC, lol!Feb 13 16:47
DaemonFCthe Protestants also like to gossip, spread lies amongst themselves, talk behind peoples backsFeb 13 16:48
DaemonFCeven members of their own churchFeb 13 16:48
Omar87DaemonFC, so you're saying that "Protestant == Conspiracy theorist"?Feb 13 16:48
DaemonFCeverything is communal business around those placesFeb 13 16:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Freda just brought me one of @arkadyrose's latest batch of scones :-DFeb 13 16:49
DaemonFCOmar87, pretty much, but the biggest believer in the Muslim/Catholic/Atheist/Homosexual/Wiccan plot is the fundamentalists, like the Wesleyans, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Baptists, etc.Feb 13 16:49
DaemonFCthose are like the Axis of Evil in the protestant ranksFeb 13 16:50
Omar87I see.Feb 13 16:50
DaemonFCI think that in any religion you're just picking flavor and intensity of crazy, but they're like the deep endFeb 13 16:51
DaemonFCthe ones that go beyond being funny and are out to hurt peopleFeb 13 16:51
DaemonFCand if you think that's bad, the Mormons and the Jehovas Witnesses are out there tooFeb 13 16:52
_GoblinDaemonFC: news break for you..its not the religion that hurts people, its religion preaches murder or hurting people.Feb 13 16:52
DaemonFCOmar87, The Mormons actually go out there and try to recruit people door to doorFeb 13 16:52
_GoblinDaemonFC: the fault is with humans, not religion.Feb 13 16:53
DaemonFCdon't ever let a Mormon in your house or they'll never leave until you're a convertFeb 13 16:53
Omar87_Goblin, Exactly.Feb 13 16:53
DaemonFCit's like vampires, they can only come in if you invite them inFeb 13 16:53
DaemonFClolFeb 13 16:53
DaemonFCthe world outside and all the people in it are why I consider my home my sanctuaryFeb 13 16:55
DaemonFChere I only have to deal with someone if I choose toFeb 13 16:55
DaemonFCvery comfortingFeb 13 16:55
DaemonFCI don't actively try to be anti-social, but it kind of just happens with 86% of the population is an instant write-off before you even begin to deal with an individualFeb 13 16:57
DaemonFCI'm sorry, but I just can't end up in a relationship with someone telling me that 500 foot tall Jesus is going to land on a mountain one day and save us allFeb 13 16:59
DaemonFC:DFeb 13 16:59
DaemonFCthat's like trying to be intimate with an adult that still fervently professes belief in Santa Claus and the Tooth FairyFeb 13 16:59
DaemonFCyou would say "Son of a bitch! This person has the mind of a 6 year old child!"Feb 13 17:00
Omar87Man! The Lost Symbol is one hell of a book! :DFeb 13 17:01
DaemonFCand Omar87, I was forced into a Catholic school for a few yearsFeb 13 17:01
Omar87DaemonFC, I see.Feb 13 17:01
DaemonFCI willfully and deliberately got myself expelled (aged 9 I think) so that I could go to public school like a normal human beingFeb 13 17:02
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Back to my den, #24camp was f*ckin awesome :DFeb 13 17:02
DaemonFCbecause even at age 9, their shit stunk too bad for me not to smell itFeb 13 17:02
DaemonFCin public school though, it was worse, cause they were going too slow and I was reading ahead of where we were at (and got yelled at for doing that)Feb 13 17:03
DaemonFCeven though I was getting all AsFeb 13 17:03
DaemonFCso I went to a home school program and ended up skipping ahead to where I was done by age 16Feb 13 17:04
DaemonFCI hated school, but I think the worst part was the Catholic school and the penguins (nuns)Feb 13 17:05
DaemonFCOmar87, Why can't it just be "Try not to kill anybody" and "Try not to be dishonest"?Feb 13 17:10
DaemonFCWhy do people have to wear certain clothes?Feb 13 17:10
DaemonFCor say certain things at different times of the day while facing in a particular direction?Feb 13 17:11
DaemonFCInstead of worrying about petty bullshit or turning "faith" into "Gossip Gossip Gossip", why can't they just say "Be excellent to each other!"?Feb 13 17:12
DaemonFCB-)Feb 13 17:12
DaemonFCthen everyone is happy Feb 13 17:12
Omar87I didn't understand your question. Could you explain it please?Feb 13 17:12
DaemonFCOmar87, Why all the silly rituals and the stupid social clubs? Why does every religion worry about which way they face in prayer or how many times they pray or what they wear?Feb 13 17:13
DaemonFCWhy do they flagrantly violate their own (important) laws like not cheating or killing people?Feb 13 17:14
DaemonFCWhy do they only concern themselves with stupid bullshit?Feb 13 17:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Evernote not compatible with #Opera. That's a good part of my use case gone...Feb 13 17:14
DaemonFCWhy do they only honor the parts that don't matter and don't make any sense?Feb 13 17:15
Omar87DaemonFC, I'm not sure exactly how Christians think, but we Muslims believe that this life is not the one we should live for.Feb 13 17:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] To transform into the hirsute Wolfman, Benicio del Toro had to sit still two hours a day while makeup artists shaved him. 13 17:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Wolfman | .::. Size~: 46.26 KBFeb 13 17:16
DaemonFCI don't know how either one of you justifies murdering other peopleFeb 13 17:16
DaemonFCbut you both manageFeb 13 17:16
Omar87DaemonFC, apparently you have built your decision or opinion about the idea of "religion" in general based on a very "negative past" that you had with the Catholic school, am I right?Feb 13 17:17
DaemonFCI would only ever kill someone to prevent being killed. Religious people kill people for all kinds of reasons.Feb 13 17:17
DaemonFCthat, relatives, etc.Feb 13 17:18
DaemonFCI'm not really bitter against "religion" as a blanket termFeb 13 17:18
_GoblinDaemonFC: No people kill people....another news break, people without religion also kill.Feb 13 17:18
Omar87DaemonFC, I would really suggest that you read good books that talk about Islam before before building your opinion about it.Feb 13 17:18
DaemonFCbut what I've seen or Christians and Muslims, I don't likeFeb 13 17:19
DaemonFCI don't want any part ofFeb 13 17:19
_GoblinDaemonFC: what you've seen? really?Feb 13 17:19
Omar87_Goblin, that's correct.Feb 13 17:19
DaemonFC*ofFeb 13 17:19
DaemonFC_Goblin, Double standards, killing, trying to debase others sociallyFeb 13 17:19
_GoblinDaemonFC: Ive spent alot of time with the Muslim faith and have never seen anything other than generousity, kindness and sincerity.Feb 13 17:19
DaemonFCtrying to punish their "enemies" with the legal systemFeb 13 17:20
_Goblin*faith should read communityFeb 13 17:20
Omar87DaemonFC, if you read enough about the Islamic history, you'll discover that the true Muslims are the most oppressed people in history. Even in our current age.Feb 13 17:20
DaemonFCOmar87, I don't know about that. It seems like the oppression is coming from many religious factions and to everyone who is not a member of those factionsFeb 13 17:22
DaemonFCof course one ends up on top in some casesFeb 13 17:22
DaemonFCbut it doesn't matter who is on top if it's not your teamFeb 13 17:22
DaemonFCIt's one of those "Can't live with them, can't shoot them" situationsFeb 13 17:23
DaemonFC:DFeb 13 17:23
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] When people say "this sucks" they mean that they are thinking about the tool, instead of their work. 13 17:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Coding Horror: Nobody Hates Software More Than Software Developers .::. Size~: 89.57 KBFeb 13 17:23
Omar87DaemonFC, for example look at the Muslim population in China and how innocent and peaceful, but yet how the dictator government treats them.Feb 13 17:23
Omar87how innocent and peaceful *they are*..Feb 13 17:24
DaemonFCOmar87, China goes too far. The US goes too far the other way.Feb 13 17:24
DaemonFCChina suppresses religion brutally, the US lets them publish any kind of seditious nonsense they like.Feb 13 17:25
DaemonFClibelous evenFeb 13 17:25
Omar87DaemonFC, read about the history of Prophet Mohammed (Pbuh) and how he used to treat everyone.Feb 13 17:25
Omar87DaemonFC, don't forget there's also the KKK who are still active until this very day and the US government lets them publish any kind "White Pride Worldwide" nonsense they like too.Feb 13 17:27
DaemonFCIt would be nice if churches could be sued to their skivvies for spreading lies and propaganda about gay peopleFeb 13 17:27
DaemonFCI'd be off to Cancun to live the rest of my life off the millions of dollars they paid meFeb 13 17:27
DaemonFCOmar87, There's some kind of neo-Nazi in the next town over that publishes that crapFeb 13 17:28
Omar87DaemonFC, I don't you're gonna like what I'm gonna say now, but fighting Gay and Lesbian is one thing I totally agree with true Christians about.Feb 13 17:29
DaemonFCOmar87, How about you and I go over there and throw him a blanket party?Feb 13 17:29
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 17:29
Omar87DaemonFC, him who?Feb 13 17:30
DaemonFCthat skinheadFeb 13 17:30
Omar87Excuse me but, which skinhead again? Feb 13 17:30
DaemonFChang on, let me see if I can find his siteFeb 13 17:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC News - Pubs win court battle over recorded music charges 13 17:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - Pubs win court battle over recorded music charges .::. Size~: 52.15 KBFeb 13 17:31
DaemonFC 13 17:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Last Ditch .::. Size~: 2.33 KBFeb 13 17:32
DaemonFCthat's himFeb 13 17:33
DaemonFCwhite nationalistFeb 13 17:33
_GoblinIve got a skinhead, Im not a nationalist...Feb 13 17:34
DaemonFCnot you :PFeb 13 17:34
Omar87DaemonFC, He's some kinda White racist?Feb 13 17:34
_Goblini know....Feb 13 17:34
DaemonFCOmar87, YeahFeb 13 17:34
DaemonFCplenty of hate groups in IndianaFeb 13 17:34
_GoblinDaemonFC: I just wanted to correct the stereotype that skinhead = racist.Feb 13 17:34
DaemonFCincluding Nation of IslamFeb 13 17:34
*DaemonFC barfsFeb 13 17:34
DaemonFC 13 17:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Hate Groups Map | Southern Poverty Law Center .::. Size~: 32.11 KBFeb 13 17:35
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Omar87DaemonFC, what's with the nation of Islam?Feb 13 17:35
DaemonFCOmar87, Has very little to do with IslamFeb 13 17:36
DaemonFCit's more like blacks that hate whitesFeb 13 17:36
DaemonFC 13 17:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Black Separatist | Southern Poverty Law Center .::. Size~: 29.1 KBFeb 13 17:36
DaemonFCthat's what Nation of Islam isFeb 13 17:37
DaemonFCAs Martin Luther King Jr. once said: "Violence begets violence; hate begets hate; and toughness begets a greater toughness. It is all a descending spiral, and the end is destruction — for everybody. Along the way of life, someone must have enough sense and morality to cut off the chain of hate."Feb 13 17:37
DaemonFCI like thatFeb 13 17:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] BBC Click...we pay for this and it covers Dropbox as if its a new old is dropbox..? I give up on Click, hopeless. #click #bbcFeb 13 17:37
Omar87DaemonFC, I know that the Muslim group out of which Malcolm X came out use to believe that Islam is a religion of blacks only, that if any white Muslim wanted to enter their mosque they'd kick him out.Feb 13 17:38
DaemonFCif they were luckyFeb 13 17:38
DaemonFCprobably taken out back and worked over with a baseball batFeb 13 17:38
DaemonFClolFeb 13 17:38
DaemonFC 13 17:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nation of Islam | Southern Poverty Law Center .::. Size~: 44.89 KBFeb 13 17:39
DaemonFC"Nonetheless, its bizarre theology of innate black superiority over whites — a belief system vehemently and consistently rejected by mainstream Muslims — and the deeply racist, anti-Semitic and homophobic rhetoric of its leaders, including top minister Louis Farrakhan, have earned the NOI a prominent position in the ranks of organized hate."Feb 13 17:40
DaemonFC 13 17:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Essay: The Anti-Gay Movement | Southern Poverty Law Center .::. Size~: 36.79 KBFeb 13 17:42
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Omar87backFeb 13 17:45
DaemonFCanti-gay groups have to lie 100% of the time, cast "all" gay people as miserable sex perverts who like to go after children and small animalsFeb 13 17:45
DaemonFCI'd almost rather have the "God hates you and that's the end of it" lineFeb 13 17:46
DaemonFCless graphicFeb 13 17:46
MinceRbig animals are fair game then? :>Feb 13 17:51
DaemonFCwho knows?Feb 13 17:52
DaemonFCbetter cover the furniture is Pat Robertson is to be believed, MinceR Feb 13 17:52
DaemonFClolFeb 13 17:52
DaemonFC*ifFeb 13 17:52
DaemonFCthere isn't a lie these people won't tellFeb 13 17:53
DaemonFChmmmFeb 13 17:56
*DaemonFC is watching The HiddenFeb 13 17:56
DaemonFCheh, the alien knocked over a Wells Fargo bank and killed lots of people with a shotgunFeb 13 17:58
DaemonFCof course I still have to caption every movie MST3K style so I said "I've felt like doing that with Wells Fargo's service being as it is sometimes"Feb 13 17:59
DaemonFC:DFeb 13 17:59
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Watching other @uupc presenters approach via the power of Google Latitude!Feb 13 18:19
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rnbhiFeb 13 18:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Windows install complete, now for Ubuntu install on Mumbuntu machine. This will be a breeze by comparison :)Feb 13 18:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post | Equality Laws & The Religious Right | The Digital Prism 13 18:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Equality Laws & The Religious Right | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 12 KBFeb 13 18:46
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DaemonFC"The firewall isn't activated, because behind the ports that are exposed to the internet, there aren't any listening services. At least not in a standard installation. An attacker can't do anything without a listening service."Feb 13 19:20
DaemonFCThe fact that your system responds at all, even to say the port is closed, is already too muchFeb 13 19:21
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shreddarrekonq 0.4 beta is out now.Feb 13 20:11
shreddarIf they make a good enough browser for KDE I might start using it again.Feb 13 20:12
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shreddarIt seems the developer might trying for it.Feb 13 20:13
_GoblinI still think Chromium is the best browser for me.Feb 13 20:13
shreddarI'm talking about for KDE though.Feb 13 20:13
_Goblinah....Feb 13 20:14
shreddarChromium as good as it is will not integrate completelly with KDE.Feb 13 20:14
_GoblinI am sure I had no issues last time I had a KDE distro running....Feb 13 20:14
shreddarAlso, runnig two toolkit ususes up more ram.Feb 13 20:14
_Goblinalthough I don't like KDE so I tend to avoid...Feb 13 20:14
DaemonFCshreddar, Most of them just dress up Firefox to look native :)Feb 13 20:15
DaemonFCChrome is GTK+Feb 13 20:16
shreddarI get hung up on it's lousy browser. If Firefox or Chrome had a QT version this would'nt be a problem.Feb 13 20:16
DaemonFCit's obvious they went with GTK+ because it's what Ubuntu usesFeb 13 20:16
DaemonFCjust like ATI always releases Ubuntu compatible drivers but skips every other Fedora :)Feb 13 20:16
shreddarI wish Chrome used it's own toolkit.Feb 13 20:17
shreddarLike it already uses alot of it's own libraries for the UIFeb 13 20:18
DaemonFCit's getting to that point where Ubuntu is common enough for a company to say they have Linux support cause they have a version for Ubuntu and nothing elseFeb 13 20:18
shreddarGnome has alway been seen as the defacto Desktop for Linux way be Ubuntu.Feb 13 20:18
shreddarI think it's the name.Feb 13 20:20
shreddarThey think it's apart of Gnu.Feb 13 20:20
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Horace Greasley, owner of huge brass balls, I salute you 13 20:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Horace Greasley  - Telegraph .::. Size~: 75.67 KBFeb 13 20:22
DaemonFC 13 20:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Associated Press: Laser knocks down test missile off Calif. coast .::. Size~: 7.68 KBFeb 13 20:23
DaemonFClasers on 747s, sweeeetFeb 13 20:23
DaemonFCGNOME is part of the GNU project :)Feb 13 20:24
DaemonFCthey still haven't voted to throw it out, and I don't think they will Feb 13 20:24
shreddarOh yeah I guess it is.Feb 13 20:27
DaemonFCshreddar, I've heard some FSF people talking about throwing GNOME out, and I've heard some GNOME people talking about leaving GNUFeb 13 20:29
DaemonFCbut neither has happenedFeb 13 20:29
DaemonFCyou get a few hundred people on both sides and you'll hear 4-5 of them put forth the idea of a divorce I guessFeb 13 20:29
shreddarI just heard that Gnome was never really a GNU project but I guess it was just the mentallity or something.Feb 13 20:30
Diablo-D3gnome never wasFeb 13 20:31
DaemonFCinteresting thing is Stallman actually supports a free .Net CLR implementation, and he has said so repeatedlyFeb 13 20:31
Diablo-D3the G in GNOME (which they dont use anymore, its just Gnome, no acronym) was for GNUFeb 13 20:31
DaemonFChe also said don't trust it on any vital project to GNOME itselfFeb 13 20:31
DaemonFCmeaning "Don't use it on primary frontline things that GNOME itself depends onFeb 13 20:32
DaemonFCand they don'tFeb 13 20:32
shreddarYeah Gnome definately apart of the GNU OS.Feb 13 20:35
shreddarOr at least the GNU Project.Feb 13 20:35
shreddarBut they probably just don't behave like they are.Feb 13 20:35
Diablo-D3well, they quit using the name GNOMEFeb 13 20:35
Diablo-D3and gnu doesnt really recognize themFeb 13 20:35
Diablo-D3so its sort of like a partnership that never materializedFeb 13 20:36
shreddarThey do thouh. It's listed on the site as the GNU Desktop.Feb 13 20:36
shreddarGNU Network Object Model EnvironmentFeb 13 20:37
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Diablo-D3which, as I saidFeb 13 20:37
Diablo-D3Gnome doesnt use the GNOME name anymoreFeb 13 20:37
DaemonFCshreddar, They also ship GNOME desktop on GnewsenseFeb 13 20:37
shreddarGNOME still uses the uses all caps in it's site.Feb 13 20:40
Diablo-D3in some placesFeb 13 20:41
Diablo-D3they're slowly eliminating itFeb 13 20:42
shreddarYeah so Gnome is the official GNU Desktop so when software vender make apps for GNu/Linux they naturally want to support atleast Gnome.Feb 13 20:42
shreddarUsually they just call it a day after that.Feb 13 20:42
Diablo-D3shreddar: except theres no official gnu anything if its not ran by gnuFeb 13 20:42
Diablo-D3gnome isnt ran by gnuFeb 13 20:42
shreddarBut it's still part of the GNU OS.Feb 13 20:43
Diablo-D3theres no gnu os in that sense.Feb 13 20:43
DaemonFCit really shows why "GNU/Linux" is ludicrousFeb 13 20:44
DaemonFChow big is how big is KDE?Feb 13 20:44
DaemonFChow big are all the other projects that have done just as much or more work than people working on GNU software?Feb 13 20:45
shreddarWell I bet developers were seeing Gnome as the GNU Desktop and thats why it has all of this support now.Feb 13 20:47
shreddarAlso KDE licensing issues.Feb 13 20:47
shreddarI mean QT's licensing issues.Feb 13 20:47
DaemonFC 13 20:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Portable.NET - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 36.71 KBFeb 13 20:48
DaemonFCanother GNU projectFeb 13 20:48
Diablo-D3QT doesnt have anyFeb 13 20:50
Diablo-D3they fixed that, remember?Feb 13 20:50
Diablo-D3shreddar: and btwFeb 13 20:51
Diablo-D3gnome is deadFeb 13 20:51
Diablo-D3use xfce.Feb 13 20:51
shreddarI was talking past tense.Feb 13 20:51
Diablo-D3same great gtk taste, 10 times less bloat, same features.Feb 13 20:51
schestowitz[20:29] <DaemonFC> shreddar, I've heard some FSF people talking about throwing GNOME out, and I've heard some GNOME people talking about leaving GNUFeb 13 20:51
schestowitzURL?Feb 13 20:51
Diablo-D3schestowitz: this is always going onFeb 13 20:51
Diablo-D3its not really news.Feb 13 20:51
DaemonFCmore like overheard in the chatterFeb 13 20:52
DaemonFCPlanet GNOME is kind of funky latelyFeb 13 20:52
shreddarI do use XFCE.Feb 13 20:52
shreddarThey're developing realy fast now.Feb 13 20:53
Diablo-D3xfce is so wonderful sint itFeb 13 20:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: you chat with people in Indiana about gnome and gnu?Feb 13 20:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Seeing spelling errors in #code comments, etc, really affects my perception of quality.Feb 13 20:54
shreddarYeah I love XFCE but I also tossed out most of it's UI in favor of Cairo-Dock/Compiz.Feb 13 20:54
Diablo-D3why would you do that?Feb 13 20:55
Diablo-D3xfwm already does compositingFeb 13 20:55
Diablo-D3and a shitload better than compiz doesFeb 13 20:55
DaemonFCschestowitz, not much reallyFeb 13 20:55
DaemonFClack of interestFeb 13 20:55
DaemonFC"Come fix my XP!"Feb 13 20:55
shreddarI use alot of other Compiz features.Feb 13 20:55
Diablo-D3blergh, silly eyecandyFeb 13 20:56
shreddarI use Scale, Cube and Expo.Feb 13 20:56
shreddarScale is probably the most useful though.Feb 13 20:57
shreddarIf Scale worked with minimized windows I'd probably not even use the dock.Feb 13 20:58
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] funroll-loops, the best anti #Gentoo site ever has returned! 13 21:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Welcome to Gentoo is Rice, the Volume goes to 11 here. .::. Size~: 39.5 KBFeb 13 21:02
shreddarKDE has still has that great file manager. But Gnome has 2 of the Best web browsers and a great Photoshop clone.Feb 13 21:09
Diablo-D3shreddar: gimp isnt part of gnomeFeb 13 21:09
Diablo-D3and gnome doesnt have a web browserFeb 13 21:09
shreddarActually it does but that's not what I meant.Feb 13 21:10
Diablo-D3no, it has a frontend for webkitFeb 13 21:10
Diablo-D3and a pretty bad one at thatFeb 13 21:10
Diablo-D3its no midori, for exampleFeb 13 21:10
shreddarI was apps designed to work well on them. Integrated and such.Feb 13 21:11
shreddarGTK+ had a great file manager I'd have a  hard time seeing the point in KDE.Feb 13 21:12
shreddarI'd still probably think KDE has better integration and a slicker UI though.Feb 13 21:12
shreddarAs great as Thunar and Nautilus are they pale in comparison to Konqueror and Dolphin.Feb 13 21:14
shreddarNow if Krita is as good as I've heard and rekonq becomes as good as I think it will then there would be no reason for me to use GTK+.Feb 13 21:15
shreddarI think both XFCE and rekonq have great potential as projects.Feb 13 21:18
shreddarOne thing I want to see in more browsers (especially Firefox) is multiproccess for tabs.Feb 13 21:21
schestowitz[20:55] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, not much reallyFeb 13 21:21
schestowitzSo you could link to itFeb 13 21:22
shreddarI think Firefox should just use webkit. There's no real reason to still develop gecko.Feb 13 21:22
shreddarAll the reasons I heard to keep it around were based in fear of not supporting web standards anymore.Feb 13 21:23
MinceRaren't there enough webkit-based browsers already? :>Feb 13 21:23
shreddarThe point in instead of continuing development on gecko they can be using their resouces for other things.Feb 13 21:24
shreddarPlus they could help improve Webkit along several others.Feb 13 21:25
shreddarAlso, they'd have past the Acid 3 Test by now.Feb 13 21:25
shreddarI guess a big problem is they'd have to rebuild everything.Feb 13 21:27
shreddarIt'd basically be the same a Chrome.Feb 13 21:27
shreddarI guess that's probably why right there.Feb 13 21:28
shreddarThat's not a very good reason either though.Feb 13 21:30
shreddarThey could go in a number of directions with it.Feb 13 21:30
MinceRor they can compete with webkitFeb 13 21:30
shreddarOkay but Webkit aready does several things better and it's cleaner.Feb 13 21:31
shreddarI think they could focus on making improvment to the UI as appossed to just copying off of Chrome for the next 6-12 months.Feb 13 21:33
MinceRit's a good thing chrome is perfectly original, then. :>Feb 13 21:35
shreddarIt doesn't matter if they copy off of other feature but they aren't bringing anything new to the table for the forseeable future.Feb 13 21:38
shreddarThey are just playing catch up right now.Feb 13 21:38
MinceRso? why not let them?Feb 13 21:39
MinceRthough there still are features that aren't found in any other browsersFeb 13 21:40
shreddarI think they should be more innovative then that.Feb 13 21:40
shreddarThe first firefox got rid of all the bloatware suffacting browsers of the time.Feb 13 21:41
sebsebseb 13 21:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lauren Weinstein's Blog: Who Owns Your PC? New Anti-Piracy Windows 7 Update                "Phones Home" to Microsoft Every 90 Days .::. Size~: 20.23 KBFeb 13 21:41
sebsebsebComments on Linux Today 13 21:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Today - Who Owns Your PC? New Anti-Piracy Windows 7 Update "Phones Home" to Microsoft Every 90 Days .::. Size~: 80.99 KBFeb 13 21:42
DaemonFCactually, Firefox takes more resources than Seamonkey suite last time I lookedFeb 13 21:43
DaemonFCFirefox isn't lighter, they just gutted some features that would be useful to someoneFeb 13 21:43
MinceRthey could get rid of some bloatFeb 13 21:43
MinceRnamely, XULFeb 13 21:43
shreddarReally. Well originally it was lighter than Mozilla (Seamonkey.)Feb 13 21:44
DaemonFCMinceR, That's what I mean. The features they stripepd out of the suite weren't what was causing the resource bloatFeb 13 21:44
DaemonFCit was the platform that enabled those features (and the add-on framework that's still there obviously)Feb 13 21:44
MinceRmoving from gecko to XUL was a good move, but it isn't enough, imoFeb 13 21:44
MinceR(regarding the GUI, of course)Feb 13 21:44
schestowitzDaemonFC: for you 13 21:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Download every Sports Illustrated 2010 swimsuit photo with a Perl script .::. Size~: 103.51 KBFeb 13 21:45
DaemonFCwell, they have said they're planning to purge as much of XPCOM as they can and to look for that in Firefox 4Feb 13 21:45
shreddarMozilla isn't the same since it turn into a for profit organization.Feb 13 21:45
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DaemonFCschestowitz, And I want that because?...Feb 13 21:46
MinceRi didn't know it turned into oneFeb 13 21:46
shreddarI don't think they expirement as much anymore.Feb 13 21:46
MinceRoh, i seeFeb 13 21:46
MinceRMozilla Corporation is a for-profit subsidiary of the Mozilla FoundationFeb 13 21:46
DaemonFCFirefox is really a dog, the extensions are really all that are keeping it goingFeb 13 21:46
MinceRand the MF is non-profitFeb 13 21:47
shreddarYeah, The good search deal with Firefox 2 is largely how they have been making money.Feb 13 21:47
DaemonFCMinceR, other way around :)Feb 13 21:47
MinceRwell, this is what WP told me :>Feb 13 21:47
DaemonFCit's just a tax law thingFeb 13 21:47
DaemonFCon paper, etc.Feb 13 21:47
MinceR 13 21:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla Organizations .::. Size~: 11.67 KBFeb 13 21:48
DaemonFCI think the foundation just hands over whatever expense money the mozilla corporation needs, and that's all they have to pay taxes onFeb 13 21:48
MinceR"The Mozilla Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Mozilla Foundation"Feb 13 21:48
DaemonFCahhhFeb 13 21:48
MinceRdon't ask me how that even works, thoughFeb 13 21:48
MinceR:>Feb 13 21:48
DaemonFCMinceR, I think the foundation is a 501c(3), like a church :DFeb 13 21:49
MinceRthat's what WP saysFeb 13 21:49
MinceRbut i don't know what that meainsFeb 13 21:49
MinceRs/ai/a/Feb 13 21:49
MinceRit seems to be lumped together with cults, yesFeb 13 21:50
DaemonFCMinceR, All it means is that you're non-profit, as in you can take in however much money you want but it all has to be gone by the end of the yearFeb 13 21:50
DaemonFCso they can vote to pay themselves a million dollars in bonuses and that countsFeb 13 21:50
DaemonFCas long as the money is gone, the foundation pays no taxesFeb 13 21:50
MinceRso as long as the MC keeps their profits within the company, the MF is in the clear?Feb 13 21:51
DaemonFCwell, I should think that the foundation is managing their "treasury" and funding the corporation pay-as-you-goFeb 13 21:51
DaemonFCthat would minimize their tax billFeb 13 21:51
DaemonFC"As a non-profit, the Mozilla Foundation is limited in terms of the types and amounts of revenue. The Mozilla Corporation, as a taxable organization (essentially, a commercial operation), does not have to comply with such strict rules. Upon its creation, the Mozilla Corporation took over several areas from the Mozilla Foundation, including coordination and integration of the development of Firefox and Thunderbird (by the globalFeb 13 21:53
DaemonFC free software community) and the management of relationships with businesses."Feb 13 21:53
DaemonFCso, the corporation is doing everything that's a no no in US tax law for a non-profitFeb 13 21:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Skype at 50-60% cpu even when *offline* for some time... supernodeage?Feb 13 21:55
DaemonFC 13 21:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Mozilla Security Blog .::. Size~: 47.52 KBFeb 13 21:56
DaemonFCthat's a lot of regressions that security patches are causingFeb 13 21:56
shreddarI guess the original reason to be for profit was in order to gather resources in order to promote Firefox.Feb 13 21:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @srboisvert Dante’s Internet <-- perfectFeb 13 21:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dante’s Internet - Stephen Boisvert - FriendFeed .::. Size~: 7.26 KBFeb 13 21:59
shreddarBack then IE was 90% and MS was the richest and largest name in PC's.Feb 13 22:00
shreddarIt's not hard to see why they'd think they needed some money to get out of the barely noticable nich among computer users.Feb 13 22:01
shreddarI can't say for sure wheater that was a correct assumption or not. But I think it was mostly motivated by fear.Feb 13 22:02
DaemonFC!/pages/Can-this-pickle-get-more-fans-than-Nickleback/282013353726?ref=nfFeb 13 22:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Movies | Facebook .::. Size~: 34.05 KBFeb 13 22:03
*DaemonFC groansFeb 13 22:03
*DaemonFC becomes a fan of the pickleFeb 13 22:04
schestowitz 13 22:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 13 22:10
shreddarHave you tried not being a fan of the pickle?Feb 13 22:10
schestowitzDaemonFC: I was just pulling your legFeb 13 22:11
schestowitzSort of urging you to check 'em out. Just a joke though. Planet Earth loves all the creatures on it, even those that screw up the atmosphere.Feb 13 22:12
DaemonFCyou mean the swimsuit models that serve no useful purpose?Feb 13 22:12
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oiaohm  Now that is something different.Feb 13 22:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Toner-, ink- and paperless printer (video)  .::. Size~: 54.4 KBFeb 13 22:16
shreddarFing crazy. About time.Feb 13 22:18
shreddarCannon, Lexmark, and Xerox are doomed.Feb 13 22:19
shreddarKindle is probably doomed too.Feb 13 22:21
schestowitzDaemonFC: they serve a purposeFeb 13 22:21
schestowitzThey are wallpapersFeb 13 22:21
schestowitzI personally NatGeo images switchingFeb 13 22:22
schestowitzHundreds of nature photos of 'the year'Feb 13 22:22
schestowitz 13 22:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Why debian rocks « Thoughts and Ideas In Warped Times .::. Size~: 31.4 KBFeb 13 22:23
oiaohmThere are still needs for long term records paper or equal based.  shreddarFeb 13 22:23
DaemonFCschestowitz, It's now perfectly obvious, in retrospect, that Microsoft intended for Windows 7 to be easy to crack for several months in order to get people used to having it and to where they'd go out and pay for it after Microsoft  trojaned in the "real" Windows Genuine Annoyance later, complete with a sharper set of teeth.Feb 13 22:23
oiaohmNow DaemonFC that has always been MS model.Feb 13 22:25
schestowitzoiaohm: you tell shreddar about a paper record?Feb 13 22:25
schestowitzshreddar shreds em all upFeb 13 22:25
schestowitzshreddar: kindle is profitableFeb 13 22:25
schestowitzIIRC, Amazon's big hit in the last quarter.. most profitable or somethingFeb 13 22:25
schestowitzoiaohm: also in ChinaFeb 13 22:26
schestowitzThey only crack down on XP, they weren't on VistaFeb 13 22:27
schestowitzRotten Tomatoes for exampleFeb 13 22:27
schestowitz 13 22:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Takes Legal Action to Keep Windows XP Out of the (Black) Market | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 105.05 KBFeb 13 22:27
schestowitzless related: 13 22:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Impact of Windows XP Getting Banned for Microsoft Misconduct | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.44 KBFeb 13 22:27
oiaohmThinking I get about 1.4 megs of data min on Papper.  Big advantage paper is long term stable.Feb 13 22:27
oiaohmGeneral printing paperless will save a lot.Feb 13 22:28
shreddarYou know how much crap I'd print If I had this?Feb 13 22:28
oiaohmPrinting for archives to be accessed in many years time.  paperless is not as great.Feb 13 22:28
oiaohmThe office I am in we don't use paper internally.Feb 13 22:29
oiaohmIts only for out going.Feb 13 22:29
oiaohmAnd incomming.Feb 13 22:29
schestowitz 13 22:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Study: > 21% of German PCs run OpenOffice - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.15 KBFeb 13 22:32
schestowitz free d/lFeb 13 22:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: FTA - The GNU/Linux Operating System | FTA - Free Technology Academy  .::. Size~: 9.05 KBFeb 13 22:32
oiaohmXerox solid ink tech for long term items like images and the paperless for other items would be a good combinations.  shreddarFeb 13 22:32
shreddarWell I guess It not so great. I mean i required special paper (which I bet stapling isn't reccomended.)Feb 13 22:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica collaborator wanted! Anyone in Melbourne able to do something with ?Feb 13 22:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - Unesco World Heritage site St Kilda seeks archaeologist .::. Size~: 53.9 KBFeb 13 22:34
oiaohmAll reusable you can not stable  shreddarFeb 13 22:35
oiaohmOr they will not reprint safely shreddarFeb 13 22:35
oiaohmThat is the biggest out standing bug.Feb 13 22:35
shreddarIt's still cheaper than E-ink/paper but not a reusable.Feb 13 22:36
oiaohmHeck I would hate to see what stapleless staples do to it.Feb 13 22:36
shreddarStapeless staples?Feb 13 22:37
oiaohmThe kind that cuts the paper and uses the cut bit to hold the pages toeghter.  shreddarFeb 13 22:38
oiaohmBasically a shredder compadible staple.Feb 13 22:38
shreddarI've never heard of that. I'd like see one of those.Feb 13 22:38
oiaohm 13 22:42
DaemonFCschestowitz, Microsoft sold 244 copies of Vista in a country with over a billion people?Feb 13 22:42
DaemonFCThat's sad, even for themFeb 13 22:42
oiaohmQuestion did they sell them.Feb 13 22:42
oiaohmOr were thoses the give ways DaemonFCFeb 13 22:42
DaemonFCoiaohm, They may have sold more copies in Malta than in all of ChinaFeb 13 22:42
DaemonFClolFeb 13 22:42
schestowitz has anyone used it?Feb 13 22:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: OpenShot – An Easy-to-use Video Editor For the Average Linux User - Make Tech Easier .::. Size~: 57.94 KBFeb 13 22:44
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, Microsoft declined to comment on itFeb 13 22:45
schestowitzIt's propbably rare to find WIndows at the stores thereFeb 13 22:45
schestowitzStores are just some bazaarFeb 13 22:45
shreddarI beable to give out 14 page (7 wide pices of paper) comic with one of those.Feb 13 22:45
schestowitzFor Windows anywayFeb 13 22:45
DaemonFCno, it's probably rare to find licensed copies of WindowsFeb 13 22:45
schestowitzPaying for the physical CDFeb 13 22:45
DaemonFCthe Chinese are heavily dependent on Windows in relation to how many copies they actually boughtFeb 13 22:46
schestowitzHow can they say 244 accuratelyFeb 13 22:46
schestowitz?Feb 13 22:46
schestowitzThat's what I never got.Feb 13 22:46
schestowitzMicrosoft is now extorting OEMs like Lenovo for paymentsFeb 13 22:46
DaemonFCschestowitz, Well. Would *YOU* make up any number you want and choose to say 244 if you were Microsoft?Feb 13 22:46
schestowitzSo they pay Microsoft like 1.5 billion for copies of WIndowsFeb 13 22:46
schestowitz2008 newsFeb 13 22:46
DaemonFCthat's the only odd part about thatFeb 13 22:46
DaemonFCif I was going to make shit up I would at least say I sold a millionFeb 13 22:47
schestowitzWhat amuses me is that Microsoft admits Vista failedFeb 13 22:47
schestowitzBUT.....Feb 13 22:47
schestowitzAll along they told us it was GREATFeb 13 22:47
schestowitzThe liars have no dshameFeb 13 22:47
schestowitzNo wodner many of their managers are quitting  nowFeb 13 22:47
shreddarYou didn't buy a 360 apparently.Feb 13 22:48
schestowitzFirestarter edition?Feb 13 22:48
shreddarThey lied, lied and lied some more about the hardware failersFeb 13 22:48
DaemonFCwell, they were also trying to say XP RTM was great even though it still has many problems after almost 4,000 patches (including SPs)Feb 13 22:48
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 22:48
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oiaohmAnd patches for XP are still coming.Feb 13 22:48
oiaohmThen when patches break machines its malware.Feb 13 22:49
DaemonFCthey could have left XP in beta until NOW and there'd still be lots of things wrong with itFeb 13 22:49
oiaohmLot have been broken due to changes in the driver stack.Feb 13 22:49
shreddarThen sundenly a warranty came out of the the absolutly not defected 360s.Feb 13 22:49
DaemonFCwhen it just went out it was crashing all the time, refusing to run lots of programs, it was slowFeb 13 22:49
schestowitzDaemonFC: 13 22:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 63,000 Windows Bugs Versus the Rarity of Command Lines | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 131.8 KBFeb 13 22:49
oiaohmMS updates did not check if drivers were compadible before appling the updates.  DaemonFCFeb 13 22:49
oiaohmFew 2003 servers here have been brilent.Feb 13 22:50
oiaohmSame with a few 2009Feb 13 22:50
oiaohmOpps 2008Feb 13 22:50
oiaohmNetwork either stopping or performing like a dog straight after a update because driver is too old.Feb 13 22:50
schestowitzI remember writing in 2006 about patches that suspended networking in XPFeb 13 22:50
schestowitzRepeated issuesFeb 13 22:50
oiaohmIts the issue of closed source drivers.Feb 13 22:51
schestowitzNo wonder people dodged Patch/botch Tuesday after thatFeb 13 22:51
shreddarThe worst part is everyone knew about the defects before they even started manufactoring.Feb 13 22:51
shreddareveryone in the that division.Feb 13 22:51
oiaohmIf there is somethign wrong in the driver stack.  And you have to alter it since the drivers are closed everything can bust.Feb 13 22:51
oiaohmPeople complain about Linux developers not working with closed source drivers.   Simple fact closed source drivers is not sane.Feb 13 22:52
schestowitz 13 22:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: How to enhance the physical security posture of your Linux/BSD-powered PC .::. Size~: 65.74 KBFeb 13 22:52
oiaohmHmm they missed don't suspend to ram.  schestowitzFeb 13 22:54
oiaohmAnd don't level it logged in not secured physically.Feb 13 22:55
schestowitz 13 22:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Good and Bad of Ubuntu Tweak | WorksWithU .::. Size~: 50.77 KBFeb 13 22:57
schestowitz <- SPain only???Feb 13 22:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: iFreeTablet .::. Size~: 7.12 KBFeb 13 22:57
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schestowitzSOme food news today from Mand: 13 22:58
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schestowitz 13 23:02
schestowitzf14 has already begunFeb 13 23:02
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oiaohm 13 23:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot News Story | The Wi-Fi On the Bus .::. Size~: 147.55 KBFeb 13 23:11
oiaohmOk what is wrong with chess games and other games on the buses.  The trouble is people have nothing todo.Feb 13 23:11
oiaohmHumans nothing todo= trouble.Feb 13 23:11
schestowitz 13 23:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Record your Desktop with Linux Tools - Cherrysave .::. Size~: 29.15 KBFeb 13 23:22
schestowitzoiaohm: cancerFeb 13 23:22
schestowitzAlthough with wi-fi it's far less severeFeb 13 23:22
schestowitzThe broadcasting side (not receiving) is short-rangeFeb 13 23:22
schestowitz 13 23:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Cell phone safety a tough call - CNET News .::. Size~: 71.98 KBFeb 13 23:23
schestowitz 13 23:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Cancer doc urges cell phone precaution | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 80.81 KBFeb 13 23:24
schestowitz"He suggests that people try to avoid constantly carrying their cell phones on their bodies and also try not to keep the devices nearby at night under the pillow or on a nightstand. He even warns against using cell phones in public places like buses because it exposes others to the phone's electromagnetic fields. "Feb 13 23:24
schestowitzI don't even like it when people use it at the gymFeb 13 23:24
schestowitzusually just for text messaging, thoughFeb 13 23:25
schestowitz 13 23:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Now Calls Google Docs the Standard | thechromesource - Google Chrome and Chrome OS News and Resources .::. Size~: 44.37 KBFeb 13 23:25
schestowitzWell, they backtracked :0-)Feb 13 23:25
schestowitzIt would be possible for people to treat nearby caller like they treat a smoker near them and politely request refrain.Feb 13 23:27
schestowitz 13 23:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: W3C proposes hardware interface - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.15 KBFeb 13 23:28
schestowitz 13 23:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Computerworld > New approach sought with open source desktops .::. Size~: 22.66 KBFeb 13 23:29
schestowitz 13 23:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Clonezilla (Live & Server Edition) review | Linux User .::. Size~: 35.14 KBFeb 13 23:32
DaemonFCschestowitz, I had to call Comcast in Washington to try and clear this upFeb 13 23:33
DaemonFC:PFeb 13 23:33
DaemonFCthis is a new oneFeb 13 23:33
DaemonFCit only lets them see accounts in the state that office is in, so it's telling me I live near SeattleFeb 13 23:34
DaemonFCand thats on the other side of the country :)Feb 13 23:34
DaemonFCso the reps in Indiana can't pull up my account Feb 13 23:35
oiaohmschestowitz: It is a school bus.  You are inside a fairly well closed metal box so there can be nice little radio reflections.   Really I don't like the idea of wi-fi on bus without a lot of care.Feb 13 23:35
DaemonFChow the hell did this happen?Feb 13 23:36
oiaohmOk at least you are still in the same country.Feb 13 23:36
oiaohmCheck you IP number.  DaemonFCFeb 13 23:37
oiaohmIe the geoip data on it.Feb 13 23:37
oiaohmYes I have seen this happen to me ie run out of ip's for my area.  Used a IP from another for me then the system went bonkers.Feb 13 23:38
DaemonFCoiaohm, I accidentally logged into someone else's accountFeb 13 23:42
DaemonFCthis person does live in Washington and has the same name as meFeb 13 23:42
DaemonFCand I reset a bunch of shit on his accountFeb 13 23:42
oiaohmOppsFeb 13 23:42
schestowitzoiaohm: we already have it in trains around hereFeb 13 23:43
oiaohmSo same passwordFeb 13 23:43
schestowitznational rail linesFeb 13 23:43
schestowitzOnly rich people seem to be using it, the rest just absorb their radio wasteFeb 13 23:43
MinceRDaemonFC: was there no authentication?Feb 13 23:44
schestowitzMoto is breaking into two chunksFeb 13 23:44
oiaohmAre your trains over there driverless as well.  schestowitz?Feb 13 23:44
DaemonFCMinceR, my username was ryan.farmer and his is ryanfarmerFeb 13 23:44
schestowitzLike the pile of *** that it is :-)Feb 13 23:44
MinceRDaemonFC: and what about the password?Feb 13 23:45
DaemonFCand I successfully reset his password and logged into ryanfarmerFeb 13 23:45
schestowitz 13 23:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot News Story | Motorola To Split In Two .::. Size~: 148.17 KBFeb 13 23:45
schestowitzoiaohm: semiFeb 13 23:45
Diablo-D3wow old newsFeb 13 23:45
MinceRdid you have access to his email account or what?Feb 13 23:45
Diablo-D3they split i two years agoFeb 13 23:45
DaemonFCyesFeb 13 23:45
Diablo-D3*inFeb 13 23:45
DaemonFCeverythingFeb 13 23:45
schestowitzFlight are mostly the same these daysFeb 13 23:45
oiaohmDiablo-D3: offically split into different companies.Feb 13 23:45
Diablo-D3oiaohm: they already didFeb 13 23:45
Diablo-D3freescale and motoFeb 13 23:45
schestowitzPeople think of pilots as Hot ShotsFeb 13 23:45
Diablo-D3clearly they're splitting into three nowFeb 13 23:45
MinceRDaemonFC: did you have access to his email account or what?Feb 13 23:45
DaemonFCschestowitz, How's that for security?Feb 13 23:45
schestowitzThey are not even allowed to have fun and play unless it's a paradeFeb 13 23:46
Diablo-D3freescale, moto, and moto mobilFeb 13 23:46
Diablo-D3or whateverFeb 13 23:46
oiaohmThe paper work to be independant companies is not fully done yet.  Diablo-D3Feb 13 23:46
schestowitzThey do their objective, come back to ground/baseFeb 13 23:46
DaemonFCMinceR, email, account info, everything of hisFeb 13 23:46
Diablo-D3PEOPLE: I AM MAKING HUMORFeb 13 23:46
Diablo-D3PLEASE GET THISFeb 13 23:46
oiaohmIe split by name Diablo-D3 not by law.Feb 13 23:46
MinceRDaemonFC: how did you know what the password was reset to?Feb 13 23:46
MinceRDiablo-D3: you're doing it wrongFeb 13 23:46
schestowitzThe fantasy is being a pilot is sold differently.... like it's a bunch of BraveCowboyz(R) on a jet planeFeb 13 23:46
schestowitzOr the Tom Hanks film about orbiting the moonFeb 13 23:46
DaemonFCMinceR, It had linked both our accounts to my HotmailFeb 13 23:47
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 23:47
schestowitzThe "save the day" storylineFeb 13 23:47
Diablo-D3schestowitz: except that movie is fucking awesomeFeb 13 23:47
MinceRDaemonFC: funFeb 13 23:47
DaemonFCand so it sent the reset question for his account that I thought was mine to my Hotmail accountFeb 13 23:47
Diablo-D3waitFeb 13 23:47
Diablo-D3which one?Feb 13 23:47
Diablo-D3you mean apollo 13, right?Feb 13 23:47
Diablo-D3because apollo 13 is fucking awesomeFeb 13 23:47
schestowitzDiablo-D3: yes, it's old newsFeb 13 23:48
schestowitzI recall it from ages ago and BN covered it 3 days ago :-)Feb 13 23:48
schestowitzMoto is a LOT smaller nowFeb 13 23:48
schestowitzThan 2 years agoFeb 13 23:48
schestowitzNokia tooFeb 13 23:48
schestowitzDiablo-D3: probably inaccurate depictionFeb 13 23:49
schestowitzBut I never checkedFeb 13 23:49
*yuhong ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 13 23:49
schestowitzHey, yuhongFeb 13 23:49
schestowitzpls don't feed trollsFeb 13 23:49
*MinceR doesn't feed yuhong Feb 13 23:50
*yuhong has quit (Client Quit)Feb 13 23:50
*yuhong ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 13 23:53
yuhongWell, I don't normally even read troll comments.Feb 13 23:54
yuhongAnyway: 13 23:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot News Story | Yale Switching To Gmail, Not Without Opposition .::. Size~: 171.01 KBFeb 13 23:54
DaemonFCschestowitz, I may report on this on my blogFeb 13 23:54
DaemonFC:)Feb 13 23:54
yuhongDeamonFC: Where is your blog, BTW?Feb 13 23:55
schestowitz 13 23:55
schestowitz yuhong in BNFeb 13 23:55
oiaohmyuhong: The issue I have is MS always blames malware.   The recent one was not.  It was drivers.  Change the driver stack don't check for upto data drivers first that support the driver stack change.  OS splat.Feb 13 23:55
schestowitzWe have 3 trolls there these days, or two with overlapFeb 13 23:55
schestowitzIf you feed, they stayFeb 13 23:55
yuhongYea, I don't normally read troll comments, this one did ring true, but even then I am not feeding them any further than necessary.Feb 13 23:56
oiaohmCatch is yuhong I had it about 6 months before they did it to XP with Windows 2003 SBS.     So that it happened to XP users as well it is pure incompetence.Feb 13 23:57
yuhongoiaohm: More precisely, infected drivers.Feb 13 23:57
oiaohmNoFeb 13 23:57
oiaohmWindows SBS 2003 had perfectly fine but old drivers.Feb 13 23:57
oiaohmSame will be true with a lot of the XP's.Feb 13 23:57
schestowitzyuhong: 13 23:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Ryans Blog .::. Size~: 78.06 KBFeb 13 23:58
yuhongoiaohm: correlation is not causation.Feb 13 23:58
oiaohmIf some of the drivers were over 12 months old they would.Feb 13 23:58
oiaohmNo longer run.Feb 13 23:58
oiaohmNow if that is something that is need on startup.Feb 13 23:58
oiaohmOS is toast.Feb 13 23:58
oiaohmNot a virus at all.Feb 13 23:59
oiaohmOr malware.Feb 13 23:59
yuhongoiaohm: I know, but correlation is not causation.Feb 13 23:59
oiaohmLack of due care on MS part.Feb 13 23:59
oiaohmBest way to avoid taken blame for MS is say person had infected drivers.Feb 13 23:59

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