Boycott Novell logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 22nd, 2010

schestowitz "Linux users are often at the mercy of hardware vendors when it comes to device drivers. The open source community often needs to turn to reverse engineering to churn out drivers from proprietary ones." Isiot....Feb 22 00:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Whither Linux drivers? | Techgoondu .::. Size~: 39.91 KBFeb 22 00:02
schestowitzObviously he never used LinuxFeb 22 00:02
schestowitzVery clueless post..Feb 22 00:02
Ender2070schestowitz - did anyone threaten to call the cops on you?Feb 22 00:07
Omar87schestowitz, lol! You gotta read this too: :)Feb 22 00:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Excellent Lessons in Journalism: How to Write a BoycottNovell Article! | - Free Software News .::. Size~: 85.71 KBFeb 22 00:08
Ender2070lol i just read thatFeb 22 00:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@Shoq I know someone who will pay RT @dangillmor can't believe NYT foolish enough to paywall its blogs // Friedman will pay to read his ownFeb 22 00:20
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Re-enabled UbuntuOne file sync for testing, despite also having 4G with dropbox. Seems more reliable than when I last tested it.Feb 22 00:22
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: more anti-progress 22 00:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot | What Happens In Vegas Happens In Afghanistan .::. Size~: 131.8 KBFeb 22 00:24
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schestowitzFurnaceBoy: I'm sick of it....Feb 22 00:40
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: :-)Feb 22 00:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- REVIEW: The Baby BIBLE Storybook! .::. Size~: 161.14 KBFeb 22 00:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz but Roy, you are forgetting the "One Microsoft way" its always better with MS...because Steve Ballmer says so.Feb 22 00:42
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FurnaceBoyschestowitz: well, to cheer u up, here's some Arianna, subtly revising history. 22 00:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / Toby Thain: @ariannahuff Rebranding #I ... .::. Size~: 9.86 KBFeb 22 00:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@ariannahuff Rebranding #Iraq war "New Dawn." "A Huge, Tragic Mistake" is much more accurate // it wasn't a "mistake". it was wilful crimeFeb 22 00:55
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] ♻ @snarf #Paypal stole $US5k from X.Org. Boycott Paypal! !debian !fedora !fsf !linux !ubuntuFeb 22 01:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gmane Loom .::. Size~: 0.48 KBFeb 22 01:02
Omar87_Goblin, heyFeb 22 01:04
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schestowitzThis guy is OK too: 22 01:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Amerikkka .::. Size~: 151.46 KBFeb 22 01:05
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yuhongIn case you hasn't seen it:Feb 22 01:10
yuhong 22 01:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Behind the Windows 7 memory usage scaremongering .::. Size~: 31.44 KBFeb 22 01:10
_Goblinomar87: Hi! Looking forward to Elimination Chamber tonight?Feb 22 01:10
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] For an honest held belief in FOSS/Linux and IT in general - #linux #microsoft #apple #xp #windows #vistaFeb 22 01:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 93.9 KBFeb 22 01:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wish there was a Linux app that managed casts the way itunes/ipod does.pc knowing what I have listened to on ipod is a useful feature I missFeb 22 01:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Automagic syncing of podcasts to the device (ipod 30gb video) would be nice too.if u1 music store is good then I should relook at rhythmboxFeb 22 01:42
Diablo-D3wtf identicaFeb 22 01:44
*Diablo-D3 fixes thatFeb 22 01:47
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] ♻ @snarf #Paypal stole $US5k from X.Org. Boycott Paypal! #debian #fedora #fsf #linux #ubuntuFeb 22 01:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gmane Loom .::. Size~: 0.48 KBFeb 22 01:52
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jweyrichptl: be welcome!Feb 22 02:08
ptlthanksFeb 22 02:08
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: ptl is a friend from campinas.Feb 22 02:09
jweyrichI mean, from minas gerais. but currently living in Campinas.Feb 22 02:09
phIRCe-BNcI mean, from minas gerais. but currently living in Campinas.Feb 22 02:10
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] ♺ @b1ackcr0w: #Shotofjaq #SOJ_I First SOJ Publicty Stunt done!! :) Come and meet Shot of Jaq the Fish! 22 02:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: I5 - Shot of Jaq .::. Size~: 9.43 KBFeb 22 02:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] OK, folks, start your engines! #shotofjaq Publicity Bingo! - go and do one of them and let us know! #SOJ_IFeb 22 02:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: PublicityBingo - Shot of Jaq .::. Size~: 21.81 KBFeb 22 02:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] We also have the new Shot Of Jaq Drinking Game thanks to a kind listener! Feel free to add ideas to #shotofjaq #soj_sFeb 22 02:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DrinkingGame - Shot of Jaq .::. Size~: 8.65 KBFeb 22 02:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Awesome to see our Google Nexus One shot was so popular - add your thoughts there too! 22 02:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Shot of Jaq » Review Of Jaq: Google Nexus One .::. Size~: 110.28 KBFeb 22 02:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Kickass quesadillas, guacamole, soup at Casa Mariachi, 816 #StClairW near Atlas #Toronto #foodFeb 22 02:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@JPBarlow Mlns long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday arvo - Ertz / now solved by #chatrouletteFeb 22 02:19
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Is !Identica screwed up so that posts via external tool (such as Gwibber) disappear randomly?Feb 22 02:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @MargaretAtwood Thanks @andrewaxiom: Defunct phone booths as lending libraries- What an idea - go Brits! // BRILLIANTFeb 22 02:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] That re-tweet my be the only change I ever get to correct a typo for @MargaretAtwood. *Glows*Feb 22 02:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - Phone box has new life as library .::. Size~: 3.58 KBFeb 22 02:25
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] That re-tweet may be the only chance I ever get to correct a typo for @MargaretAtwood. *Glows*Feb 22 02:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @wtk1 @socratic friend of mine told me tonight that her newborn was proof of a benevolent God. told her to get back to me in 15yrs //LOLFeb 22 02:27
FurnaceBoyptl: boa noite! o prazer eh meuFeb 22 02:29
schestowitzHey, ptlFeb 22 02:29
schestowitzNice to meet youFeb 22 02:29
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: can you believe that euphemism? "awful mistake". Like, uh, putting too much soap in the washing machine?Feb 22 02:30
jweyrichhey schestowitz. how's everything?Feb 22 02:30
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: sounds like O'reillyFeb 22 02:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bruno Knaapen, #GNU #Linux Advocate, Remembered in Amsterdam 22 02:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The World Is Mourning The Loss Of Bruno Knaapen  Linux Advocate | The Blade by Ron Schenone, MVP .::. Size~: 61.89 KBFeb 22 02:33
schestowitzThat's what he would, except the "awful"Feb 22 02:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dearest Friends, Students, Admirers of Bruno Knaapen... - Scot's Newsletter Forums .::. Size~: 165.56 KBFeb 22 02:33
schestowitzjweyrich: all goodFeb 22 02:33
schestowitzAbout 20 posts to do tomorrow :-DFeb 22 02:33
jweyrich20? god.Feb 22 02:34
schestowitzYeahFeb 22 02:34
schestowitzI manage to do about 2 per hour depending on lengthFeb 22 02:34
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it's what Arianna calls the war, now. Feb 22 02:35
schestowitzNew crimes I want to catalogueFeb 22 02:35
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: that's what I call her thenFeb 22 02:35
schestowitzJust not to her parents, as that would be offensiveFeb 22 02:35
jweyrich2/hour, great avg.Feb 22 02:35
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: ask her if WW2 was an "accident"Feb 22 02:36
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schestowitzBut in this case, to one side it's a war crime and to anorher a genocideFeb 22 02:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Business Credit Card from #Linux Fund Comes to the UK 22 02:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Security Improved by #GNU #Linux 22 02:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Security Alert: They Should Have Used Linux - Window and Desktop Managers News Story .::. Size~: 49.46 KBFeb 22 02:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux "Used in Everything from the Smallest Consumer Electronics to the Largest Super Computers" 22 02:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Review: You are not a Gadget: A Manifesto, by Jaron Lanier - The Globe and Mail .::. Size~: 90.04 KBFeb 22 02:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Review of the New #GNU #Linux Desktop Business from Newcastle 22 02:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Broadband Computer Co Alex review | Expert Reviews .::. Size~: 51.29 KBFeb 22 02:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux laptop takes the strain for technophobes - .::. Size~: 95.2 KBFeb 22 02:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Worked So Much Better Than #Windows,1000000567,10015150o-2000440676b,00.htmFeb 22 02:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Community on ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 112.92 KBFeb 22 02:41
jweyrichbed time. nite FurnaceBoy schestowitz ptlFeb 22 02:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Oracle Still Likes #GNU #Linux for #Servers 22 02:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle:      Linux is now Oracle's low-end offering  .::. Size~: 48.22 KBFeb 22 02:43
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FurnaceBoyjweniteFeb 22 02:44
FurnaceBoyoupsFeb 22 02:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More New #Games for #GNU #Linux: Plants Vs. Zombies, Dale Hardshovel 22 02:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Plants Vs. Zombies for Linux .::. Size~: 53.82 KBFeb 22 02:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: News: Dale Hardshovel and the Bloomstone Mystery Released and Demo - .::. Size~: 21.72 KBFeb 22 02:45
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment (KDE SC) Rambles and Suggestions 22 02:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: the limits of virtual desktops « ChaniBlog .::. Size~: 46.88 KBFeb 22 02:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: On the menubar « Stories of a KDE programmer .::. Size~: 80.33 KBFeb 22 02:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A New #GNU #Linux Distribution That Microsoft/Apple AstroTurfers Ought to Try :-) 22 02:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Think you've mastered Linux? Prove it, with Suicide Linux .::. Size~: 77.7 KBFeb 22 02:53
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat #GNU #Linux Gets Boost from #Savvytek and #Lenovo 22 02:55
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: Savvytek lands Red-Hat Linux Virtualization implementation project .::. Size~: 64.32 KBFeb 22 02:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: eChannelLine USA - Lenovo promotes ThinkServer brand with Tech Data, Red Hat rebates .::. Size~: 18.21 KBFeb 22 02:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Additions to #Debian Family: #ElementOS 22 02:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Element OS- Your ultimate entertainment Linux OS. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 92.32 KBFeb 22 02:56
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Developments and #Kubuntu Review 22 02:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Little Things That Matter: Ubuntu 10.04's MessagingMenu | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 107.34 KBFeb 22 02:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: U1 Music Store  Store Music in U1? | blog .::. Size~: 51.86 KBFeb 22 02:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Mania: Kubuntu Lucid Review .::. Size~: 103.78 KBFeb 22 02:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #Linux in #Embedded : Marvel, #Pogoplug , #ELinOS 22 03:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Marvel Reveals ARM-Powered Notebook at MWC - Commercial model might debut this year - Softpedia .::. Size~: 46.17 KBFeb 22 03:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Even #Microsoft Allies Turn Away from #Windows and to #Linux / #Android 22 03:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Wipro to offer commercialisation services on TI's OMAP processors - Computer Business Review : News .::. Size~: 51.6 KBFeb 22 03:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nvidia Tablets/Sub-notebooks Likely to Runs #GNU #Linux 22 03:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: TI's OMAP gets Android development support from Wipro                 .::. Size~: 8.59 KBFeb 22 03:03
-phIRCe-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nvidia Tablets/Sub-notebooks Likely to Runs #GNU #Linux 22 03:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@wastedcarbon Remember when Segways changed the way cities were built? (via @z0x1c) //nobody's building cities any more,except Iraq& HaitiFeb 22 03:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@katyushina .@SarahPalinUSA: "Go #Canada -- it's part of America, too!" // She sure makes us wish it wasn'tFeb 22 03:12
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Grows in Russian Government 22 03:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Future Growth of Russian Open Source Market Ensured: Key 2009 Partnerships, Milestones and Resources .::. Size~: 39.26 KBFeb 22 03:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Openness and Freedom (Like Software Help #Haiti 22 03:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Open Source Maps Are Helping the World Bank Save Lives in Haiti | Green Day | Fast Company .::. Size~: 36.5 KBFeb 22 03:34
schestowitzgnFeb 22 03:37
ender2070gnFeb 22 03:44
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @schestowitz: Openness and Freedom (Like Software Help #Haiti 22 03:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Open Source Maps Are Helping the World Bank Save Lives in Haiti | Green Day | Fast Company .::. Size~: 36.5 KBFeb 22 03:52
DaemonFCWhen someone says "World Bank" iss helping to save know it's bullshitFeb 22 04:04
ender2070yesFeb 22 04:05
FurnaceBoybanks are very into reputation launderingFeb 22 04:06
FurnaceBoyit's traditionalFeb 22 04:06
FurnaceBoyplenty of budget for splashy co-branding without any real activismFeb 22 04:06
DaemonFCthe world bank goes around giving high interest loans out as a way to control third world countriesFeb 22 04:07
DaemonFCtheir leaders live in luxury even while everyone else dies of dysentary and AIDSFeb 22 04:07
DaemonFChow do you spin doctor that?Feb 22 04:07
FurnaceBoywatch and find outFeb 22 04:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Stack really got the message of "Going Rogue".Feb 22 04:11
DaemonFCI like this new Rhythmbox better than BansheeFeb 22 04:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@crikey_news Today's Crikey: A #nuclear waste dump for the #NT without consultation? // is there money in it? #fraudFeb 22 04:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: How to site a nuclear waste dump  Crikey .::. Size~: 72.98 KBFeb 22 04:13
DaemonFCit's refreshing to see a competent distro not jumping on the Mono bandwagon just cause they canFeb 22 04:13
DaemonFC*competant Feb 22 04:13
FurnaceBoycompetent*Feb 22 04:14
*DaemonFC has been up too longFeb 22 04:15
FurnaceBoy:)Feb 22 04:15
DaemonFCand my spel check is not functioningFeb 22 04:15
DaemonFCwhy is that?Feb 22 04:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @Tosfm RT @TWI_news An Open Letter to Liz Cheney on #Torture // I'd add a few choice phrases. Malevolent hypocritesFeb 22 04:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: An Open Letter to Liz Cheney on Torture «  The Washington Independent .::. Size~: 26.54 KBFeb 22 04:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Politics-driven policy, over-intervention are increasing maternal mortality in US #midwiferyFeb 22 04:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Midwives banned from St. John's Pleasant Valley Hospital - Feministing .::. Size~: 110.06 KBFeb 22 04:24
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DaemonFC 22 04:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @kibbe: Just found a #Royksopp fan on #chatroulette. YES! // #meme collisionFeb 22 04:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @Tosfm @nicoj #torture Guantanamo // one man spent 4 *years* in solitary; do you know what that is like, Liz Cheney?Feb 22 04:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Politics of Well-Being: Learned helplessness in action at Guantanamo Bay .::. Size~: 98.3 KBFeb 22 04:48
DaemonFC 22 04:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Perfect Desktop - Fedora 12 i686 (GNOME) | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials .::. Size~: 47.4 KBFeb 22 04:59
DaemonFCPerfectly Bloated Fedora Desktop ftw!Feb 22 04:59
DaemonFCwhy would anyone need 5-6 pieces of software installed that do the same thing?Feb 22 04:59
DaemonFCor 20Feb 22 05:01
DaemonFCand Fedora still has XMMS!? WTF!?Feb 22 05:01
DaemonFCseriously what could be using GTK 1.x but XMMS?Feb 22 05:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "Sometimes best thng that can happen to a company is catastrophic loss of its src code repo..not even close to kidding" 22 05:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: An ultimately unsuccessful interview «  DadHacker .::. Size~: 21.93 KBFeb 22 05:04
DaemonFC"4 Disable SELinux" Bad adviceFeb 22 05:05
DaemonFC 22 05:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: USA beats Canada 5-3, has shot at top seed in quarterfinals - .::. Size~: 75.37 KBFeb 22 05:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] This is hilarious. Voight-Kampff test meets cubicle farm. #code #nerderyFeb 22 05:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dont get me started on that subject «  DadHacker .::. Size~: 17.87 KBFeb 22 05:22
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ender2070[23:53] <DaemonFC> why would anyone need 5-6 pieces of software installed that do the same thing?Feb 22 05:25
ender2070did you use the dvd to install "everything" ?Feb 22 05:25
DaemonFCnoFeb 22 05:25
ender2070xmms isnt on the livecdFeb 22 05:25
DaemonFCthat perfect desktop crap that guy postedFeb 22 05:25
ender2070ohhhhFeb 22 05:26
ender2070hes using i686 tooFeb 22 05:26
DaemonFCmeh, it all applies to X86-64Feb 22 05:26
DaemonFCthe repositories are more or less identicalFeb 22 05:26
DaemonFCthe only difference is 32-bit or 64-bitFeb 22 05:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "it was common practice [at #SCO] & other companies to remove the #BSD copyright notices from...source code" #groklawFeb 22 05:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Embarrassing Dispatches From The SCO Front .::. Size~: 157.5 KBFeb 22 05:27
ender2070ohhh its that idiotFeb 22 05:27
DaemonFCwell, you can count the compatibility packages that the 64-bit version has to help 32-bit software runFeb 22 05:27
ender2070i wrote about one of his other articles last yearFeb 22 05:27
ender2070his using i686 means one of two thingsFeb 22 05:28
ender20701) old pcFeb 22 05:28
ender20702) hes an idiotFeb 22 05:28
DaemonFCI moved my dad over from OpenSuse to UbuntuFeb 22 05:28
DaemonFCa while backFeb 22 05:28
DaemonFChe had all kinds of shit he didn't need on his Suse installFeb 22 05:28
DaemonFCit was so old it still had reiserfs as its file systemFeb 22 05:29
ender2070gotta have evolution AND thunderbirdFeb 22 05:29
DaemonFCI'd prefer just thunderbirdFeb 22 05:29
DaemonFCI don't like Evolution, too bloated if all you use is emailFeb 22 05:30
DaemonFCLinux Mint drops Evolution for ThunderbirdFeb 22 05:30
ender2070adobe reader and real player are stupid to use tooFeb 22 05:30
DaemonFClulzFeb 22 05:30
DaemonFCReal PlayerFeb 22 05:30
DaemonFCdo they stil lexist?Feb 22 05:30
ender2070yeahFeb 22 05:30
DaemonFCRealPlayer for Windows is the most horrible thing everFeb 22 05:31
ender2070the author suggests its useFeb 22 05:31
DaemonFCand it still tries to rip everything to RealAudioFeb 22 05:31
DaemonFCwhich doesn't work on ANY portablesFeb 22 05:31
DaemonFCI will give Real one thing thoughFeb 22 05:31
DaemonFCtheir MP3 encoder is very niceFeb 22 05:31
DaemonFCand open sourceFeb 22 05:32
ender2070i guessFeb 22 05:32
ender2070for an *mp3* encoderFeb 22 05:32
DaemonFCmeh, it's on par with LAME and about 6 times fasterFeb 22 05:32
ender2070if you want mp3 filesFeb 22 05:32
DaemonFCif you have to batch encode a shit ton of FLACs and you want it done quickly, you want Helix MP3Feb 22 05:33
DaemonFCif you want slightly better quality and don't care how long the process drags on, use LAMEFeb 22 05:33
ender2070I have a few lines of python code that can do thatFeb 22 05:33
DaemonFCMake LAME haul ass?Feb 22 05:34
ender2070noFeb 22 05:34
ender2070fuck LAMEFeb 22 05:34
ender2070i dont want mp3 filesFeb 22 05:34
DaemonFCLAME is still the best quality MP3 you're going to getFeb 22 05:34
ender2070i dont want MP3Feb 22 05:34
DaemonFCbut that's like world's tallest midgetFeb 22 05:34
ender2070I want ogg or flacFeb 22 05:34
DaemonFCI want to move it and merge Aotuv again alreadyFeb 22 05:35
ender2070I backup all my cd's in flac, and also encode to ogg for actual useFeb 22 05:35
DaemonFCgod damn, you know they're about as slow as the FSFFeb 22 05:35
ender2070if something comes out better than ogg, i can reencode from flacFeb 22 05:35
DaemonFCgo a year and get 3 bugs fixed after politics tears the shit out of the merge planningFeb 22 05:35
DaemonFCno, seriously, need to shove 1.3.0 out like, yesterday Feb 22 05:36
DaemonFCand merge all of Aoyumi's patch setFeb 22 05:36
DaemonFCthe longer this drags out, the more bugs that have fixes available stay in EVERY Linux distributionFeb 22 05:37
DaemonFC 22 05:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: RepoView: RPM Fusion (Fedora - nonfree - released) 12 (x86_64) .::. Size~: 6.29 KBFeb 22 05:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] "Idiots can be defeated, but they just never admit it." ~RMS.Feb 22 06:14
cubezzzlolFeb 22 06:14
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Draconian move RT @sunil_abraham: India Seeks Jail For GM Food Critics 22 06:20
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balzac>_>Feb 22 06:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] I am at Jaipur now for next one week for workshop on Public Software (aka FOSS) looking forward to meet LUGJ guys, all contacts are welcomeFeb 22 06:48
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*DaemonFC did a bad thingFeb 22 06:55
*DaemonFC patched over MESA with some Fedora 13 packages and rpm --nodeps to speed up his Youtube vids :DFeb 22 06:55
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] #ACTA wants to criminalize Free Software users who view DVD's with CSS.Feb 22 08:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] #ACTA recomenda o corte do acesso à internet à lá "3 ofensas" francesa.Feb 22 08:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Não admira que testejam a esconder o texto ou a mentir sobre ele, a disseminação pública dele incentiva a revolta dos cidadãos..Feb 22 08:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Yay! The MS RT Bot is advertising my site for me! Good "old" Microsoft! Maybe it liked my article on "Trustworthy Computing"?Feb 22 08:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Even the average reader of the Harvard Business Review has a gut appreciation for the fundamental unfairness of swpats: 22 08:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Software patents are the problem not the answer - Union Square Ventures: A New York Venture Capital Fund Focused on Early Stage & Startup Investing .::. Size~: 32.05 KBFeb 22 08:41
cubezzzhow can anyone criminalize DVD viewing?Feb 22 09:05
cubezzzit's just stupidFeb 22 09:06
DaemonFCcubezzz, no distro wants to touch libdvdcss cause of US lawsFeb 22 09:07
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DaemonFCyet they all seem to be shipping Mono at the same time as refusing to ship libdvdcssFeb 22 09:08
DaemonFCIf I was putting a distribution together, I might throw in libdvdcss, I'd never put Mono in itFeb 22 09:09
cubezzzyou're joking right?Feb 22 09:09
cubezzzI mean my fc1 can play DVDsFeb 22 09:10
cubezzzthat's 2004Feb 22 09:10
cubezzzit's part of mplayer evenFeb 22 09:10
cubezzzthey _might_ be able to lock some people out of blurayFeb 22 09:11
DaemonFCdoubt itFeb 22 09:12
cubezzzregarding libdvdcss the source is downloadable :)Feb 22 09:12
DaemonFCyeah, it's not even that complicatedFeb 22 09:12
cubezzzthis ACTA stuff looks really sillyFeb 22 09:13
DaemonFCit's just an overglorified pseudorandom number generator as I understand itFeb 22 09:13
DaemonFCjust keeps brute forcing til a generated key unlocks the discFeb 22 09:13
DaemonFCcubezzz, I will _never_ buy something I don't have guaranteed access toFeb 22 09:14
DaemonFClibdvdcss is the reason I have bought any DVDsFeb 22 09:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] FSF asks Google to make VP8 a free open codec for the web: 22 09:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Open letter to Google: free VP8, and use it on YouTube - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 31.31 KBFeb 22 09:15
DaemonFCpeople are bonehead stupid to be buying Blu Ray discs without the assurance that they can access the disc on their own termsFeb 22 09:15
cubezzzthey canFeb 22 09:16
cubezzzthe doom9 guys have just about everything figured out nowFeb 22 09:16
cubezzzthat's why I said _some_ people will be locked out...Feb 22 09:16
cubezzzbut only due to lack of knowledgeFeb 22 09:17
cubezzzand some people enjoy cracking stuffFeb 22 09:17
DaemonFCit's easy to hide something from people who are ignorant to the fact that there is something to look forFeb 22 09:17
DaemonFCit's their own faultFeb 22 09:17
DaemonFCsuccessful DRM is like a parasite that can thrive as long as people don't know it's thereFeb 22 09:19
cubezzzlike Agent Smith would say.... it's inevitableFeb 22 09:19
DaemonFCDRM tends to be careful not to announce itselfFeb 22 09:19
DaemonFCif all you know is that you have a disc that plays in the player, you're unlikely to be aware that the DRM is on the discFeb 22 09:20
DaemonFCthat's also why Microsoft has preactivation systems for OEM WindowsFeb 22 09:21
DaemonFCnobody sees it so it doesn't existFeb 22 09:21
DaemonFCit pops out and attacks now and thenFeb 22 09:21
cubezzzI'll coin a new term: software churnFeb 22 09:21
DaemonFClike Le Chupacabre Feb 22 09:21
cubezzzendless upgraded for no real reasonFeb 22 09:22
cubezzzendless upgradesFeb 22 09:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Downtimes and Lack of #Liability as Reason to Avoid #Microsoft Online #azure #serverFeb 22 09:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Downtimes and Lack of Liability as Reasons to Avoid Microsoft Online | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.29 KBFeb 22 09:23
cubezzzoh I do use Microsoft for one thing :)Feb 22 09:23
cubezzzgetting the KID so I can remove the DRM from stuffFeb 22 09:23
DaemonFCWhy is Jamendo proliferating MP3 files?Feb 22 09:23
DaemonFCand why is Fedora linking to this?Feb 22 09:24
cubezzzbecause there's tons of mp3 players?Feb 22 09:24
cubezzzsee, that's why Zaurus is pretty goodFeb 22 09:25
cubezzzyou got mplayer on thereFeb 22 09:25
cubezzzso you have pretty good control over thingsFeb 22 09:25
DaemonFC 22 09:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lyrics to the track: Princess Obama - Jamendo .::. Size~: 60.45 KBFeb 22 09:25
DaemonFCyes, the RIAA better watch itself :)Feb 22 09:26
cubezzzit shouldn't be too hard to go from wma -> ogg Feb 22 09:26
DaemonFCewwwwFeb 22 09:26
cubezzzhmm?Feb 22 09:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] State of X.Org Foundation and year of mobile linux. 22 09:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] The State of The X.Org Foundation 2010 .::. Size~: 16.3 KBFeb 22 09:27
DaemonFCyou bitch about MP3Feb 22 09:29
DaemonFCbut you're willing to transcode from WMA?Feb 22 09:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] LOL, I'm following a couple of M$ Evangelists now. These guys are realy nuts. Believe their own nonsense and Lies.Feb 22 09:37
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Amazon testimony in front of Congress on 1-click patent, software patents and patent trolls: 22 09:49
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Civil Society must enforce RTP over #RTI "Responsibility to publish (RTP) everything on web by Government using open standards"Feb 22 10:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bill Gates Invests Heavily in Denial of #GlobalWarming and in Abusive Monopolies 22 10:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bill Gates Invests Heavily in Deception About Global Warming and in Abusive Monopolies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.97 KBFeb 22 10:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Media Seemingly Masquerades as Government Media finally it makes senseFeb 22 11:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Media Seemingly Masquerades as Government Media | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 93.84 KBFeb 22 11:11
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schestowitz,1000000567,10015075o-2000498448b,00.htmFeb 22 11:30
schestowitz"Some very interesting reading in this story about Windows inherent lack of security being exploited. Read it and make your own judgment. I can hear the Windows apologists' shrieks now... "correctly configured, thoroughly protected, with Anti-Virus software, Anti-Spyware protection, Internet Security suites, blah, blah, blah..."."Feb 22 11:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Community on ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 112.88 KBFeb 22 11:30
oiaohmBasic logical people install from random sources.  Get random quality software.Feb 22 11:31
oiaohmI had to remove a fake antivirus today.Feb 22 11:31
oiaohmOnly the same one on 8 machines.Feb 22 11:31
cubezzzummFeb 22 11:34
cubezzzthat's not really logical :)Feb 22 11:34
cubezzzoh yeah I've done that tooFeb 22 11:35
cubezzzyou see oiaohm, that's a bad assumptionFeb 22 11:35
cubezzzthe reality is, unless you've seen the source code and understand it, it's a riskFeb 22 11:36
oiaohmCase of this one appears to work good so they recommend to there friends.Feb 22 11:36
cubezzzany binary, who knows what's in it?Feb 22 11:36
oiaohmSome people you have as friends you don't need ememyiesFeb 22 11:36
cubezzzright :)Feb 22 11:36
cubezzzit sucks up all your timeFeb 22 11:36
cubezzzI'm sure you would rather not be fixing windows boxesFeb 22 11:37
oiaohmDepends if they are paying me 50 dollars a hour or not.Feb 22 11:37
cubezzzyes well... :)Feb 22 11:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Crawls into Bed with #Washington , Seattle Times Still in Denial #taxFeb 22 11:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Crawls Into Bed With Washington, Seattle Times Still in Denial | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.72 KBFeb 22 11:39
cubezzzthe world is mediocreFeb 22 11:40
oiaohmNow I hate the windows user beg for help.Feb 22 11:41
oiaohmIe free help.Feb 22 11:41
cubezzzand you just can't protect your computer without some understanding of the pitfalls there are nowFeb 22 11:41
cubezzzyeahFeb 22 11:41
cubezzzIE help even :)Feb 22 11:41
oiaohmYet I nornally will give a Linux users a few hours for nothing.Feb 22 11:41
oiaohmI am not exactly what you call non bias.Feb 22 11:41
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Nice! "Please say Fedora" !fedoraFeb 22 11:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Please say Fedora  ::  Richard A. Johnson .::. Size~: 68.8 KBFeb 22 11:42
cubezzzI usually charge $30 CAN per hour unless it's a friend who brings pizzaFeb 22 11:43
oiaohmNote I do network administration.Feb 22 11:44
oiaohmCleaning out a windows network at between 50 to 100 dollars a hour.Feb 22 11:44
oiaohmI don't mind at all.Feb 22 11:45
oiaohmNow having to do the single machines where you only make like 20 dollar a hour boy that suxs.Feb 22 11:45
oiaohmLot of businesses that have to deal with goverment here are forced to use windows.   So it was not there own willing dumb option as well.Feb 22 11:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] now *everyone* here has the vomiting liquishits! yay! here's to norovirus. UNCLEAN.Feb 22 11:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] if you have pdf file and images inside it, just run command pdftohtml to getthose images. #bash #commandsFeb 22 12:01
oiaohmUptime: 1 hours and 1 minutesFeb 22 12:16
oiaohmOk scripts work.Feb 22 12:16
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Resorts to Blame Games (Against Exploiters of Microsoft’s Own Flaws and Against #Google ) 22 12:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Resorts to Blame Games (Against Exploiters of Microsofts Own Flaws and Against Google) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.75 KBFeb 22 12:39
cubezzzwhat is a chipod?Feb 22 13:01
cubezzzoh, it's a music thingieFeb 22 13:02
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Feeling bleh :-\ , Mummyy, i need more coffee!Feb 22 13:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Grouping of the latest news about #Mono at #Novell and developments at #Canonical #ubuntu #yahooFeb 22 13:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novells Mac-only Mono and Some Notes About Ubuntu | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.07 KBFeb 22 13:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Workshop on "Public Software for Social Sector-Principles and Practice" Jaipur 25 Feb 2010 22 13:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle:         Workshop on "Public Software for Social Sector-Principles and Practice" Jaipur 25 Feb 2010 - LUG@IITD Community Blog     .::. Size~: 30.52 KBFeb 22 13:41
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cubezzzok, this is funnyFeb 22 13:44
cubezzzI bought this song, it's probably World War One era or olderFeb 22 13:45
cubezzzJohn McCormackFeb 22 13:45
cubezzzand guess what? It had DRM :)Feb 22 13:45
cubezzzthank you so much puretracks.comFeb 22 13:45
cubezzzso I have to remove the DRM then convert from hellicious wma to oggFeb 22 13:46
cubezzzjust to give you an idea just how old this stuff is:Feb 22 13:48
cubezzz 22 13:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: John McCormack (tenor) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 38.07 KBFeb 22 13:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @jmcesteves: Opinion of the European Data Protection Supervisor on the current #ACTA negotiations: 22 13:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 22 13:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @jzim: #ACTA : menace et incompatibilité avec la législation européenne confirmées #HADOPI #CopyrightMafiaFeb 22 13:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ACTA : menace et incompatibilité avec la législation européenne confirmées | La Quadrature du Net .::. Size~: 28.84 KBFeb 22 13:50
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post: "Ubuntu Manual - 48 Hours" 22 13:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Manual  48 Hours | blog .::. Size~: 24.07 KBFeb 22 13:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] is there any cms to manage conference/workshop organising tasks #cmsFeb 22 14:05
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] yikes:D i am now following @shreyaghoshal in twitter. She is my fav :-)Feb 22 14:07
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schestowitzcubezzz: maybe they don't want you to buy musicFeb 22 14:18
schestowitzThey'd rather you rented itFeb 22 14:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] The Brian Jonestown Massacre's "Let's Go Fucking Mental" has a nice rythm for wor.Feb 22 14:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] workFeb 22 14:25
oiaohm  Hmm really the lack of features to add is starting to turn up strange things.Feb 22 14:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: LKML: Enrico Weigelt: Re: Dynamic linking in the kernel .::. Size~: 7.91 KBFeb 22 14:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualVentures “a Combination Mob Protection Racket + #Ponzi Monetization Scheme” 22 14:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Intellectual Ventures “a Combination Mob Protection Racket + Ponzi Monetization Scheme” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.75 KBFeb 22 14:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] If Aliens come w/ fabulous technologies but closed & human has no control over. Will we accept them? Then why accept M$. they are aliensFeb 22 14:40
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schestowitzHey, tessierFeb 22 15:00
schestowitz* trmancoFeb 22 15:00
trmancohey schestowitzFeb 22 15:00
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] !Songbird has really matured since I first used one of the early nightly builds, and I think it's time I stick with itFeb 22 15:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another University Dumps #Novell Mail, #VMware ’s Parent Helps #Zimbra ’s Direct Rival 22 15:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Another University Dumps Novell Mail, VMwares Parent Helps Zimbras Direct Rival | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.24 KBFeb 22 15:05
oiaohm  HmmFeb 22 15:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: PC World .::. Size~: 124.98 KBFeb 22 15:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @jzim: European privacy protection authority condemns #ACTA A serious blow to the negotiators! #ThreeStrikesFeb 22 15:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: European privacy protection authority condemns ACTA | La Quadrature du Net .::. Size~: 23.66 KBFeb 22 15:13
oiaohm  Nice newsFeb 22 15:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google officially jams Gears - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 29.15 KBFeb 22 15:17
oiaohm;zoom=2  Hmm how randomFeb 22 15:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Browser Ballot arrives this week - 77% of UK don't know it's coming - The H: Security news and Open source developments .::. Size~: 1.63 KBFeb 22 15:18
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @BoingBoing: EU Data Protection czar comes out against ACTA; EU analysis of leaked ACTA chapter 22 15:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: EU Data Protection czar comes out against ACTA; EU analysis of leaked ACTA chapter Boing Boing .::. Size~: 27.65 KBFeb 22 15:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] #dfd2010 Document Freedom Day is approaching!Feb 22 15:54
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sebsebsebHiFeb 22 16:33
_GoblinhiFeb 22 16:41
_Goblinbit delayed there.Feb 22 16:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: hiFeb 22 16:41
_Goblinjust been playing about with Puppy Arcade 7....great funFeb 22 16:42
sebsebseb_Goblin: oh what's that?Feb 22 16:45
_GoblinA distro aimed at Emulation.....covers loads of systems...Feb 22 16:45
_Goblinvery good.Feb 22 16:46
schestowitz:-DFeb 22 16:46
_Goblinyou don't visit my site then....;)Feb 22 16:46
_GoblinI interviewed the creator and have been banging on about it for months.Feb 22 16:46
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft ’s Gadgets/Hardware Business is Collapsing ( #Zune , #Xbox , #Mobile ) 22 17:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsofts Gadgets/Hardware Business is Collapsing (Zune, Xbox, Mobile) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.49 KBFeb 22 17:17
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @Tosfm @Gr8RDH @tpmmedia #Torture memo author you've never heard of: / Let the record show: Jennifer Koester HardyFeb 22 17:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Torture Memo Author You've Never Heard Of | TPMMuckraker .::. Size~: 89.38 KBFeb 22 17:23
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Sharepoint Server (MOSS) 2007 Administrator - Montreal - 1 year contract - (skills) - IIS, Sharepoint and MOSS 2007... 22 17:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Sharepoint Server (MOSS) 2007 Administrator -... - Toby Thain - FriendFeed .::. Size~: 7.63 KBFeb 22 17:30
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Randall Kennedy fooled his own employer (IDG), but the claim that Vista 7 is a pig remains in tactFeb 22 17:43
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: you advertise MSFT?Feb 22 17:43
MinceRapparentlyFeb 22 17:44
MinceRlast time he advertised slowlaris :>Feb 22 17:45
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FurnaceBoyschestowitz: noFeb 22 17:46
FurnaceBoya recruiter sent me a contract opportunity in MtlFeb 22 17:48
FurnaceBoyI'm conflicted whether to feed it in case a follower could use itFeb 22 17:49
FurnaceBoyFriendfeed's interface won't let me Edit to add explanatory text thoFeb 22 17:49
FurnaceBoyso i gave upFeb 22 17:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Morning all! Off to an unexpected start, but plenty of Ubuntu fun today. :-) How are you all doing, friends?Feb 22 17:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Randall Kennedy is a Scam, But #Vista7 is Still Bloated 22 17:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Randall C. Kennedy is a Scam, But Vista 7 is Still Bloated | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.91 KBFeb 22 17:54
FurnaceBoygood headlineFeb 22 17:54
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sebsebseb Feb 22 17:56
MinceR                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Feb 22 17:56
sebsebseb Feb 22 18:01
sebsebseb             Feb 22 18:01
sebsebsebMinceR: something I hate is how loads of organisations business's and such still use Internet Explorer 6!Feb 22 18:01
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Nice !quote "Life is like a Lambourghini. It goes too fast and it costs too much." (via @g33f).Feb 22 18:02
_Goblinsebsebseb: re: IE6 we still use it!Feb 22 18:05
sebsebseb_Goblin: that does not suprise meFeb 22 18:07
sebsebseb_Goblin: I  was thinking something like that or whatever earlierFeb 22 18:08
sebsebsebanyway it's patheticFeb 22 18:08
sebsebsebit's a joke reallyFeb 22 18:08
sebsebsebeven Microsoft want people to no longer use IE6Feb 22 18:08
sebsebseband loads of business's and such still doFeb 22 18:08
MinceRno surpriseFeb 22 18:10
MinceRit probably runs on winblows versions no newer ie will run onFeb 22 18:10
MinceRso m$ would want those people to buy newer winblows licenses :>Feb 22 18:10
sebsebsebMinceR: nah people can do Internet Explorer 8 in XP as wellFeb 22 18:11
sebsebseband IE7Feb 22 18:11
sebsebsebit's IE 6  on XP, that loads of business's and such are still doing :(Feb 22 18:11
_Goblinsebsebseb: I cannot understand why all Enterprise simply migrate to FF..its proven to be far more solid.Feb 22 18:11
sebsebsebone reason I don't want to work in  Windows ITFeb 22 18:11
sebsebsebI would have to support mornoic software choices from those in chargeFeb 22 18:11
sebsebseb_Goblin: yep plus it has most market share now than any version of IE on it's own,  it's just with older versions of IE,  IE still has most of that marketFeb 22 18:12
sebsebsebI think most of today's IE 6 market share,  is business's and such that haven't upgraded to a later version of IE or to a better browserFeb 22 18:12
sebsebsebnot home usersFeb 22 18:13
MinceRand what about winblows 2000 and winblows nt 3 and 4?Feb 22 18:13
sebsebsebMinceR: some home users will still be using 2000Feb 22 18:13
MinceRenterprises might be relying on broken "web"apps that rely on ie bugsFeb 22 18:13
sebsebsebnt3 and 4 is more of a business thing, not much of that out there still being used today, I guess?Feb 22 18:13
sebsebsebMinceR: well there is that yesFeb 22 18:13
sebsebsebthe intranet stuffFeb 22 18:13
sebsebseb,but they could have a better browser for the webFeb 22 18:13
MinceRand RadioActiveXFeb 22 18:13
sebsebseb,but then we get this,  only one program for a task, stupidity thingFeb 22 18:14
sebsebsebit seems we have to wait untill 2012 or 2014Feb 22 18:14
sebsebsebfor IE 6 to proerly dieFeb 22 18:14
sebsebsebunless loads of websites stop supporting it, Google  have already started doing thatFeb 22 18:15
sebsebsebXP was going to die this year, but then extended by four years, that means IE 6 as well hrmFeb 22 18:15
sebsebsebI  bought a computer magazine earlier,  yeah aimed at Windows users.  so not really for me,  decided to buy anyway.  Yes a bit of a waste of money really, but oh well.   Been a while since I bought anything like that.   Anyway  Ubuntu got mentioned twice briefly in the magazine :)Feb 22 18:16
sebsebseband  it was telling people about  propritary  security programs and so on hrmFeb 22 18:16
FurnaceBoythe problem perceived by many people is not so much that Ffx, etc, are better browsers, but the ridiculous added costs of supporting IE[6]Feb 22 18:17
FurnaceBoybillions of wasted effortFeb 22 18:17
sebsebseboh jono  other people mentioning Ubuntu on TV and in magazines and such,  but  no Canonical adverts yetFeb 22 18:17
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: IE 6 isn't  that secure also, but yet people are using it for their email accounts and what notFeb 22 18:18
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: right, windows Feb 22 18:18
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: keyloggers Feb 22 18:18
sebsebsebyeah it really annoys me when I go some whereFeb 22 18:18
sebsebsebto some placeFeb 22 18:18
FurnaceBoyhow could any reasonable person feel secure using it for online bankingFeb 22 18:18
sebsebseband  the computersFeb 22 18:18
sebsebseband yep XP and  IE 6 uhFeb 22 18:18
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: sure, but most users that use it for that are ignorant, and so don't knowFeb 22 18:19
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 22 18:19
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I woudn't trust logging into any  online account,  on  one of those computersFeb 22 18:20
sebsebsebin  some organisatoin that has XP and  IE 6Feb 22 18:20
sebsebsebalso it's worrying how  goverment organisations have data about us stored on WindowsFeb 22 18:20
FurnaceBoy+1Feb 22 18:20
FurnaceBoylocked in proprietary, alsoFeb 22 18:20
FurnaceBoydata theft must be bigger than we are toldFeb 22 18:20
sebsebsebyep and there's that as wellFeb 22 18:20
sebsebsebpropritary formatsFeb 22 18:21
sebsebsebthe computer world doesn't really make me feel good at all, except for opensource/freesoftwareFeb 22 18:21
MinceR 22 18:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 3123995890_010918e635.jpg » : Ride the lightning .::. Size~: 7.42 KBFeb 22 18:22
sebsebsebhardare makers, well  it's about making a profitFeb 22 18:22
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] This happens time to time in #emacs-in @abbe :D #funFeb 22 18:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool .::. Size~: 19.86 KBFeb 22 18:22
sebsebsebWindows security is big business,  which could be partly why Micosoft don't put in quite a lot of time, to improve Windows security by a long wayFeb 22 18:23
sebsebsebeven if I do something non technical as a job,  I would still have to use shitty software choices probablyFeb 22 18:23
sebsebsebit's ashameFeb 22 18:23
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's also why Windows rot won't be addressed. they profit when ppl turn over the hardware believing it's "too slow".Feb 22 18:24
FurnaceBoythere's no incentive to make it efficient and long-livedFeb 22 18:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What #Windows Home #Server and #OOXML Have in Common: They Corrupt Data 22 18:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Humming "Happy birthday dear @gbraad, happy birthday, to you!" lowly at his workplace while a few coworkers look strangely at him.Feb 22 18:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What Windows Home Server and OOXML Have in Common: They Corrupt Data | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.42 KBFeb 22 18:24
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: Windows rot?  computers slowing down and such you mean?Feb 22 18:24
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 22 18:24
FurnaceBoy"appearing to" slow down... Feb 22 18:24
sebsebsebyeah and they can get away with stuff like thatFeb 22 18:24
FurnaceBoyof course it's just poor designFeb 22 18:24
sebsebsebsince most users are ingorantFeb 22 18:25
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's profitableFeb 22 18:25
sebsebsebignorant aboveFeb 22 18:25
sebsebsebconsuermism is ok when it comes to other things, but computers it really isn'tFeb 22 18:25
sebsebsebok well  houses and new cars are going to be rather expensive to buy,  when they should probably be sold cheaper really moralleyFeb 22 18:26
sebsebsebanyway ignorant little consumers yeahFeb 22 18:26
sebsebsebthat's how these technology  companies see usFeb 22 18:26
sebsebseband a lot of these  computer magazines as well for that matterFeb 22 18:27
FurnaceBoyvicious circleFeb 22 18:27
FurnaceBoythe consumer is the hamster in the wheel ):Feb 22 18:27
FurnaceBoy:)Feb 22 18:27
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I don't like being some where and  seeing people using IE 6, or even worse having to use it myself, but not much I can do reallyFeb 22 18:28
FurnaceBoyas a web dev i can say that supporting it is extremely costlyFeb 22 18:28
FurnaceBoyit's like a different web.Feb 22 18:28
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: yeah I wanted to be a pro website createrFeb 22 18:28
sebsebsebuntill I reolized thatFeb 22 18:28
FurnaceBoyfirst you code for the standard Web, then you code for the Microsoft webFeb 22 18:28
FurnaceBoydoubles the effortFeb 22 18:28
FurnaceBoystill', it's a self correcting situationFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebthe sites I had made weren't that good really by a long way,  and also  when I found out that IE 6 would be a right pain to supportFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebfor a proper siteFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebyeah I knowFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebfirst you code for standards compliant browsersFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebthen for IEFeb 22 18:29
FurnaceBoyeither the web standardises on MS(their dream) or they get marginalised and the standard web wins (which is what will actually happen)Feb 22 18:29
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I am a bit annoyed actsaully a  site I hand coded back in 2004Feb 22 18:29
sebsebseba basic siteFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebwhich is what the guy wanted, well it got replaced about three months ago or something like thatFeb 22 18:29
sebsebsebwith a damn Frontpage site, so bad code yeah :(Feb 22 18:29
cubezzzno, first I code for the web, then I'm finished :)Feb 22 18:29
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: that guy didn't know I hand coded and such though,  he doesn't know about web standards, and webpage codingFeb 22 18:30
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: and he probably still uses Internet Explorer,  but you know that's a joke really,  to have a site that was hand coded that validated,  to be replaced by a Frontpage siteFeb 22 18:30
sebsebsebhowever the site didn't look that good, but if he wanted better he could have told me.Feb 22 18:30
cubezzzyou have to have the balls to say no to Microsoft jobsFeb 22 18:31
sebsebsebcubezzz: uh?Feb 22 18:31
cubezzzat least that's what I doFeb 22 18:32
cubezzzavoid the Microsoft jobsFeb 22 18:32
sebsebsebcubezzz: yep that's what I am going to doFeb 22 18:32
sebsebsebhowever that will meanFeb 22 18:32
sebsebsebI will end up working something that isn't technical, probablyFeb 22 18:32
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sebsebsebcubezzz: I wanted to work in ITFeb 22 18:34
sebsebseb,but then reality hit meFeb 22 18:34
cubezzzyou still canFeb 22 18:34
sebsebseblike it or not,  I would have to work doing Microsoft junkFeb 22 18:34
sebsebsebif I was to work in ITFeb 22 18:34
ender2070hey anyone use drupal ?Feb 22 18:34
sebsebsebunless I became self employeed some howFeb 22 18:34
cubezzzI use drupalFeb 22 18:34
MinceRthere are non-m$, non-windows jobs in ITFeb 22 18:34
sebsebseboh and proggramming uhmm I don't program, but if I didFeb 22 18:34
ender2070do you know of any modules for a reverse count down?Feb 22 18:34
sebsebsebI woudn't write propritary softwareFeb 22 18:34
cubezzznope :)Feb 22 18:34
ender2070such as counting up from a specific dateFeb 22 18:34
ender2070boo :(Feb 22 18:34
sebsebsebMinceR: well  not jobs that will take me at the momentFeb 22 18:34
sebsebsebMinceR: or probably not anywayFeb 22 18:34
ender2070i tried searching, i might have to write oneFeb 22 18:34
MinceRicFeb 22 18:34
sebsebsebplus  they won't be around hereFeb 22 18:35
cubezzzI'd ask in the drupal forums though if I needed thatFeb 22 18:35
ender2070oooo good ideaFeb 22 18:35
MinceRalso, the "won't write proprietary software" criterion is much harder to fulfill, afaikFeb 22 18:35
sebsebsebMinceR: I don't programFeb 22 18:35
sebsebsebMinceR: I am more of a support personFeb 22 18:35
MinceRicFeb 22 18:35
sebsebsebI enjoy helping people with computer, getting them away from Windows, or at least dual bootingFeb 22 18:35
cubezzzI'm not sure I like Fedora 12 :-/Feb 22 18:35
cubezzzit's being a pain in the buttFeb 22 18:36
sebsebsebMinceR: most of my computer help has been onlineFeb 22 18:36
sebsebsebon IRC yeahFeb 22 18:36
ender2070ty cubezzzFeb 22 18:36
ender2070whats wrong with F12?Feb 22 18:36
cubezzzI can't compile mplayer for pulseFeb 22 18:36
sebsebsebMinceR: I am wating for the times to changeFeb 22 18:36
sebsebsebMinceR: and when it does enough,  maybe then i'll work in technologyFeb 22 18:37
ender2070why not?Feb 22 18:37
MinceRwhat work do you do now, sebsebseb?Feb 22 18:37
ender2070and did u check rpmfusion's ?Feb 22 18:37
sebsebsebnow I just  think this computer stuff is a hobby,  and i'll have to do something else as a jobFeb 22 18:37
sebsebsebMinceR: unemployeedFeb 22 18:37
cubezzzender2070, no, I want to compile from sourceFeb 22 18:37
ender2070what type of errors are you gettingFeb 22 18:38
FurnaceBoycubezzz: i agree with the general approach you take. at a previous job we managed to avoid browser specific codeFeb 22 18:38
FurnaceBoycubezzz: but heavy use of CSS means that most of your standards compliant coed will simply break on IE6Feb 22 18:38
sebsebseb_Goblin: you don't  have a computer job by choice or?Feb 22 18:38
FurnaceBoycubezzz: there's no way of avoiding the extra effort/costFeb 22 18:38
ender2070i'd advise you try #fedora-devel - they might be able to help with compiling errorsFeb 22 18:38
cubezzzyeah ender2070, I'll look at it later :)Feb 22 18:39
ender2070those guys kick assFeb 22 18:39
sebsebsebMinceR: sometimes interests don't really work out carrerwise, and so end up doing something elseFeb 22 18:39
cubezzzthey won't like me though :)Feb 22 18:39
ender2070sure they willFeb 22 18:39
ender2070as long as you dont ask any dumb user-level questionsFeb 22 18:39
ender2070such as where is my K menu?Feb 22 18:39
cubezzza guy who uses fc1 a lot? and Linux 2.4? :)Feb 22 18:39
ender2070you know what you're doing, you should be fineFeb 22 18:40
cubezzzI might just revert back to 11Feb 22 18:40
sebsebsebMinceR: What do you do?Feb 22 18:40
cubezzzI'm just more used to 2.4 stuffFeb 22 18:40
ender2070did you see if fedora/redhat had to use any patches on their mplayerFeb 22 18:40
cubezzzender2070, it seems that f12 takes a hard line on mp3 stuffFeb 22 18:41
MinceRrecently i was a software developer, now i'm looking for a new jobFeb 22 18:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Typing this on the most cheap-ass Chinese made keyboard ever. "Aron" brand. Works though. Loud enough to really annoy Skype conferenceesFeb 22 18:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Anyone know how to show PDF pages or slides in 22 18:41
ender2070f-anything doesFeb 22 18:41
cubezzzso I might just convert all my audio to oggFeb 22 18:41
cubezzznoFeb 22 18:41
ender2070oh yesFeb 22 18:41
cubezzzthat's not trueFeb 22 18:41
ender2070its their policyFeb 22 18:41
cubezzzfc1 didn'tFeb 22 18:41
ender2070since about f8 i thinkFeb 22 18:42
cubezzzok then :)Feb 22 18:42
cubezzzto me, that's still newFeb 22 18:42
ender2070yeahFeb 22 18:42
ender2070rpmfusion exists for that reasonFeb 22 18:42
ender2070stuff fedora/redhat is too paranoid to shipFeb 22 18:42
cubezzzI'll just convert to ogg, it's a good idea anywaysFeb 22 18:42
ender2070lawlFeb 22 18:42
ender2070im at the library right nowFeb 22 18:42
ender2070there a book, Fedora Core 2 for dummies w/ CDFeb 22 18:43
ender2070need an upgrade? ;)Feb 22 18:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Early stages, B/shock 2 feels like Fat Of The Land from The Prodigy, liked previous not sure about what followed. I am fool that rushed inFeb 22 18:43
cubezzznah :)Feb 22 18:43
cubezzzI am really happy with my fc1 boxFeb 22 18:43
ender2070:)Feb 22 18:43
ender2070im a 2.6.0 pioneerFeb 22 18:43
cubezzzhighly modded you know :)Feb 22 18:43
ender2070i jumped over asapFeb 22 18:43
cubezzzI bet I got the most modern fc1 on the planetFeb 22 18:44
ender2070i had suse 8 or 9 and grabbed an experimental kernel upgradeFeb 22 18:44
ender2070when yast was still QtFeb 22 18:45
cubezzzI have an F10 box, a F11 box and a F12 boxFeb 22 18:45
cubezzzplus Embedix, and fc1Feb 22 18:45
FurnaceBoyFC1 :)Feb 22 18:46
cubezzzI'm FC1-man :)Feb 22 18:46
ender2070my friend thought FC1 was funny because it still had a lot of redhat branding and path namesFeb 22 18:47
cubezzzI'm almost at the point now where I understand all my modulesFeb 22 18:47
cubezzzyes, that's trueFeb 22 18:47
ender2070he made his own kernel to hack wifi at the timeFeb 22 18:47
cubezzzit's like when Scotty went on the new Enterprise, and started bitching about everythingFeb 22 18:48
ender2070lolFeb 22 18:49
ender2070I guess you could view it in that perspectiveFeb 22 18:50
ender2070I view it with a perspective that constant evolution will deliver perfectionFeb 22 18:50
ender2070out with the old, in with the newFeb 22 18:50
cubezzzNew isn't always betterFeb 22 18:50
ender2070as long as it worksFeb 22 18:50
ender2070usually the case for meFeb 22 18:51
_Goblinsebsebseb: My job uses computers for admin, but no, its as far removed from computing as you can get.Feb 22 18:51
*jono has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)Feb 22 18:51
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah  exactly  even these non technical jobsFeb 22 18:51
sebsebsebwill use computersFeb 22 18:51
sebsebseband  they tend to use XP and IE 6 these days :(Feb 22 18:51
_Goblinsebsebseb: yep. thats my work comboFeb 22 18:52
sebsebseb_Goblin: some moron in charage and then yep thatFeb 22 18:52
cubezzzender2070, a lot of devs still use 2.4 kernel for thingsFeb 22 18:52
*jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 18:52
_Goblinsebsebseb: and get this...most of our apps are custom browser based...theres no need for us to even be using Windows or IEFeb 22 18:52
sebsebsebwell when XP runs out of support properlyFeb 22 18:52
sebsebsebIE 6 will pretty much dieFeb 22 18:53
sebsebsebunless it already happendedFeb 22 18:53
cubezzzIt's dead JimFeb 22 18:53
ender2070cubezzz - really? I don't think I agree other than legacy systemsFeb 22 18:53
sebsebsebalso when XP runs out I guess can't just upgrade to Windows 8 ( whatever it's going to be called )Feb 22 18:53
sebsebsebso quite a lot more clean installs,  and people buying new computersFeb 22 18:53
sebsebseband so  all of a suddenFeb 22 18:53
cubezzzrouters? TVs? that leap-frog thing? :)Feb 22 18:54
ender2070sebsebseb - Windows 8 is 128-bit, think of the ram requirementsFeb 22 18:54
sebsebsebquite a lot of less computers, that aren't being used as part of a botnet anymore?Feb 22 18:54
ender2070cubezzz - they use 2.4? theres so many power saving advancements made to 2.6 due to powertopFeb 22 18:54
sebsebseb_Goblin: so complain to whoever is in charge of the IT?  oh right yeah, probably not much point, since they won't listen to you probablyFeb 22 18:54
sebsebsebender2070: uh?Feb 22 18:54
*FurnaceBoy dropped 2.4 ~ 205Feb 22 18:54
FurnaceBoy2005*Feb 22 18:54
cubezzzmaybe the backport some stuffFeb 22 18:54
sebsebsebender2070: you mean like 64bit?Feb 22 18:54
ender2070sebsebseb- 128-bitFeb 22 18:55
_Goblinsebsebseb: on.Feb 22 18:55
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: tickless, etcFeb 22 18:55
sebsebsebender2070: 16bit 32bit  64bit  and now 128bit ????Feb 22 18:55
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: moore's law babyFeb 22 18:55
ender2070according to ms win8 will support itFeb 22 18:55
*FurnaceBoy gigglesFeb 22 18:55
FurnaceBoyender2070: IE9 will be standards compliant, too!Feb 22 18:55
ender2070LOLFeb 22 18:56
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: uh I hope soFeb 22 18:56
FurnaceBoyender2070: no really this time it's true!Feb 22 18:56
ender2070its really a joke, the 128 bit comment - but they do claim to support itFeb 22 18:56
FurnaceBoyender2070: they finally worked out how to do itFeb 22 18:56
_Goblinwin8 will support everything..acording to MS...they will say anything to make a sale.... 22 18:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft  Trustworthy Computing?!? «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 40.24 KBFeb 22 18:56
sebsebsebIE 8 was going to have standards mode by default, but then it didn't happen or whateverFeb 22 18:56
sebsebsebdon't know that much about IE 8Feb 22 18:56
_Goblinsebsebseb: it will be better next timeFeb 22 18:56
cubezzzI know windows 10 will be 100% FOSS right? :)Feb 22 18:56
ender2070cubezzz - tickletss, etcFeb 22 18:56
ender2070ticklessFeb 22 18:57
sebsebseb_Goblin: it's propritary softwareFeb 22 18:57
sebsebsebdevelopment is slowFeb 22 18:57
sebsebsebexcept a new version every three years or so for OS'sFeb 22 18:57
sebsebsebthat are propritaryFeb 22 18:57
sebsebsebanyway 2014Feb 22 18:57
sebsebsebaround then Windows 8 will come outFeb 22 18:57
ender2070c# 4 is out right? perhaps when they write their os on it, it will create that much more bloatFeb 22 18:57
ender2070hence, 128-bitFeb 22 18:57
_Goblin"it will be better next time" is what the MS faithful say when a problem is found.Feb 22 18:57
sebsebsebmaybe 2012 even, after all that's when Microsoft want business's to leave  XP by the latestFeb 22 18:57
sebsebseb_Goblin: that's what the Ubuntu people say as wellFeb 22 18:58
sebsebsebwhen there is something that isn't likedFeb 22 18:58
cubezzzender2070, my router is relatively new, it's definitely got 2.4 Feb 22 18:58
sebsebseband later Ubuntu's hrmFeb 22 18:58
ender2070cubezzz - what routerFeb 22 18:58
cubezzzdlink di-604upFeb 22 18:58
ender2070what makes you think it has linux?Feb 22 18:58
_Goblinbut in my experience with Ubuntu it is....I know 9.10 was slated, but I found the opposite, it has been rock solid.Feb 22 18:58
cubezzzI have the source code :)Feb 22 18:59
sebsebseb_Goblin: features got removed in 9.10Feb 22 18:59
sebsebseb_Goblin: good featuresFeb 22 18:59
ender2070do they say why they dont use 2.6Feb 22 18:59
sebsebseb,because of silly upstreamsFeb 22 18:59
sebsebsebGrub 2 is not neededFeb 22 18:59
sebsebsebGDM 2 is not neededFeb 22 18:59
ender2070perhaps d-link is afraid of SCO?Feb 22 18:59
ender2070LOLFeb 22 19:00
_Goblinsebsebseb: The one I noticed was the networking options from the task bar where I could set a temp DNS I have to do a gedit of resolv.confFeb 22 19:00
cubezzznot sure really whyFeb 22 19:00
sebsebseb_Goblin: bye bye icons in system menu  and  all of places, well that's already happended, it can be turned on quite eaily graphically,  but  that feature has been removed now as well in 10.04 developmentFeb 22 19:00
sebsebseb_Goblin: so now it's a gconf editor jobbyFeb 22 19:00
sebsebsebto put the icons back onFeb 22 19:01
sebsebsebsilly upstream GnomeFeb 22 19:01
ender2070cubezzz - iirc, SCO claimed it owned features added to 2.6Feb 22 19:01
_Goblinsebsebseb: Ive made a bash script to do it.Feb 22 19:01
sebsebsebmessing with it twice  unessariley before Gnome 3, that's  GDM 2 and that icons thingFeb 22 19:01
ender2070NUMA and some other thingsFeb 22 19:01
ender2070but anyways, my router is powered by 2.6Feb 22 19:02
ender2070so its betterFeb 22 19:02
sebsebseb_Goblin: also silly Ubuntu for having a version of Grub 2, that has issues when it comes to booting up other distros,  well that's what I was told by one of the Ubuntu opsFeb 22 19:02
ender2070:PFeb 22 19:02
sebsebseb_Goblin: something about how it can't just boot up other distrosFeb 22 19:02
cubezzz:-PFeb 22 19:02
FurnaceBoyender2070 | perhaps d-link is afraid of SCO? <------ bwahahahahahaFeb 22 19:03
ender2070yesFeb 22 19:03
cubezzzI'll switch to 2.6 when 2.8 comes out :)Feb 22 19:03
ender2070I was joking obviously, heheFeb 22 19:03
FurnaceBoyyeahFeb 22 19:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[aondo] Did a test to use jack transport with Blender and Ardour3, both getting together quite nice!Feb 22 19:03
FurnaceBoynice one :)Feb 22 19:03
sebsebseb_Goblin: more "consumer shit" in 10.04Feb 22 19:03
ender2070cubezzz - you might be waiting years upon yearsFeb 22 19:03
_Goblinsebsebseb: I would like to see Ubuntu use Xfce as its flagship DE.  I think Xfce is mature enough now.Feb 22 19:03
cubezzzpart of it is I know this system really wellFeb 22 19:03
cubezzzeverything works Feb 22 19:03
sebsebseb_Goblin: features that I don't want for my own personal computer useage, but  that "the  not so average, but clever enough to try something that isn't Windows, consumer" may find usefulFeb 22 19:04
ender2070cubezzz - 2.6 is a rolling devFeb 22 19:04
sebsebseb_Goblin: we already have Ubuntu One,  but  music store is coming in 10.04, and those social features, which can already be tried in alpha with the updatesFeb 22 19:04
sebsebsebalpha 3 this Thursday :)Feb 22 19:04
ender2070cubezzz - its easy to learn something that doesnt change often other than bug fix updatesFeb 22 19:04
sebsebsebsomething to vm,  and  not be impressed with, probablyFeb 22 19:04
_Goblinsebsebseb: I was a beta tester for Ubuntu One...great service and although I didn't really require it, if it brings in revenue for Canonical then great...I'd personally go with Dropbox though.Feb 22 19:05
sebsebseb_Goblin: what annoys me is that that ther edited fusa, is linked to the socail features, which are useless without accounts set upFeb 22 19:05
sebsebseb_Goblin: so can't remove the social features, whilst keeping their edited fusaFeb 22 19:05
sebsebsebI don't like fusa anywayFeb 22 19:05
ender2070cubezzz - personally I have a blood fued against dlinkFeb 22 19:05
ender2070cubezzz - as well as rogers and microsoftFeb 22 19:05
sebsebsebit's ok in 9.10 though, since it has a nice icon.   I liked 8.10 where it had fusa   and left alone, shut down and log out in system menuFeb 22 19:05
cubezzzrogers and microsoft I understand, but why dlink?Feb 22 19:06
sebsebseb_Goblin: Microsoft/Yahoo will bring in  some money for Canonical as wellFeb 22 19:06
MinceRweren't dlink the ones that said the GPL doesn't apply to them?Feb 22 19:06
sebsebseb_Goblin: also Ubuntu isn't a great distro it really isn'tFeb 22 19:06
sebsebsebMandriva :)  and even more :)  if they did a few things differnetFeb 22 19:06
_Goblinsebsebseb: I would also like to see Brasero get the boot.  Although K3b is a KDE app is streets ahead of Brasero in terms of reliability and stability.Feb 22 19:06
sebsebsebfor example bothering to have a 64bit version of  Mandriva OneFeb 22 19:07
MinceR"although"?Feb 22 19:07
ender2070cubezzz - used to own a few dlink products, one after updating firmware hijacked my broswer and tried to sell me security software, when I worked at a large retail chain we had douchebag reps who said linux was worthless, etcFeb 22 19:07
MinceRkde apps tend to be far ahead of their competitors :>Feb 22 19:07
_Goblinsebsebseb: I have never had a good experience with Mandriva.Feb 22 19:07
sebsebseb_Goblin: I have used brasero a few times to burn CD's it tends to work,  DVD burning has been an issueFeb 22 19:07
cubezzzheh, dlink uses Linux now :)Feb 22 19:07
sebsebseb_Goblin: I have had some little issues with Mandriva One 2010 here and there, nothing major thoughFeb 22 19:07
ender2070when it saves them $$$Feb 22 19:07
_Goblinsebsebseb: it was mounting/unmounting I found problems with Brasero.Feb 22 19:07
sebsebseb_Goblin: so still a good distro in my eyesFeb 22 19:07
ender2070they still dont provide linux drivers for any of their hardwareFeb 22 19:07
_Goblinsebsebseb: and thats what I'd say about Ubuntu on my secondary rigs.Feb 22 19:08
cubezzzI don't know, I just know their routers work, I have 3 of themFeb 22 19:08
sebsebseb_Goblin: I find Mandriva One 2010 better than Ubuntu 9.10Feb 22 19:08
_Goblinsebsebseb: having said that, the rig Im on at the moment is 9.10Feb 22 19:08
sebsebsebthat plymouth boot up is rather niceFeb 22 19:08
sebsebsebyes 10.04 will have Plymouth, butFeb 22 19:08
ender2070cubezzz -lol, the dlink rep tried to say that intel made atheros, lolFeb 22 19:08
sebsebsebFedora and Mandriva got it firstFeb 22 19:08
MinceRoops, i confused d-link with linksysFeb 22 19:08
sebsebsebFedora and Mandriva had it firstFeb 22 19:09
sebsebsebUbuntu tend to do quite a lot of things after FedoraFeb 22 19:09
_Goblinsebsebseb: I had one issue with 9.10 and that was popping sound....took about 1 min to sort out....Ive had nothing since.... The family use the Ubuntu PC the most and Ive had no reported probs.Feb 22 19:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] d@evan would like to know more about sysadmin gig before applying (salary, fringe and whether my wife would have to blame Canada ;) )Feb 22 19:09
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah Ubuntu 9.10 on family computerFeb 22 19:09
sebsebseb_Goblin: since the whole hard disk got re done in JanuraryFeb 22 19:09
sebsebseb_Goblin: since  some virus or whatever had messed up XP big timeFeb 22 19:09
sebsebsebin fact to the extent where, it was blue screen of deathing on the Windows CD,  and so onFeb 22 19:10
FurnaceBoyw00tFeb 22 19:10
FurnaceBoydid you check ram?Feb 22 19:10
sebsebseband it woudn't boot up,  had errorsFeb 22 19:10
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: sort ofFeb 22 19:10
FurnaceBoymemtest86 ftwFeb 22 19:10
sebsebsebI ran memtest for a while, but probably not as long as it should of goneFeb 22 19:10
FurnaceBoyi do it overnightFeb 22 19:10
_Goblinsebsebseb: and I think Ubuntu excells as a family OS.  Maybe its some inferiority complex that wants me to feel "l33t" as the reason why I am a slack fan on my main rig.Feb 22 19:10
sebsebseb_Goblin: family os uhmmFeb 22 19:10
_Goblinsebsebseb: I really can't think of a reason why I don't have Ubuntu on all my rigs.Feb 22 19:10
sebsebsebI have a little  eight year old brother, will he use  the music store? nopeFeb 22 19:10
_Goblinsebsebseb: or at least XubuntuFeb 22 19:11
sebsebsebwill  he use the Facebook and Twitter features?  uh not yetFeb 22 19:11
sebsebsebmaybe in a few years if they are still thereFeb 22 19:11
sebsebsebwill he use Ubuntu One nopeFeb 22 19:11
sebsebsebUbuntu 9.04 is a good family OSFeb 22 19:11
sebsebsebmy older brother might use the social features in 10.04Feb 22 19:11
_Goblinyes but then thats an option just like Itunes or Dropbox.  Just because the service is there doesn't mean people will use it.Feb 22 19:11
_Goblinor be forced to.Feb 22 19:11
cubezzzI'm not a big fan of facebookFeb 22 19:11
sebsebseb_Goblin: they remove something more useful from the Live CDFeb 22 19:12
sebsebsebfor junk featuresFeb 22 19:12
sebsebsebyep those beautiful LInux screensavers are more usefulFeb 22 19:12
sebsebsebnow that's something WIndows doesn't have by default, loads of beautiful screensaversFeb 22 19:12
sebsebsebwell now neither does Ubuntu by defaultFeb 22 19:12
cubezzzyeah got to make the cpu work when everything's idle :)Feb 22 19:12
sebsebsebloads of distros lack loads of good screensavers by defaultFeb 22 19:12
FurnaceBoytotally contra power saving :)Feb 22 19:12
_Goblinyes but Ive covered this on my site before...If Canonical could survive off praise from users then it would be the richest company in the world....since it needs cash like any company, services like Ubuntu One should be offered.Feb 22 19:13
sebsebsebpoor MandrivaFeb 22 19:13
sebsebsebused to have the market and then something happended and lost most of itFeb 22 19:13
sebsebsebalso Mandriva is nice and EuropeanFeb 22 19:13
sebsebsebUbuntu isn'tFeb 22 19:13
sebsebsebit really isn'tFeb 22 19:13
_Goblinsebsebseb: If the experiences in the main were similar to mine then Im not surprised.  I will never try Mandriva again.Feb 22 19:13
sebsebseboh sure  they have their stuff in London and what not, but it is so not EuroepanFeb 22 19:13
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: poor  Canada in the down hill skiing by the wayFeb 22 19:14
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: the Americans were doing pretty good in itFeb 22 19:14
sebsebsebin thatFeb 22 19:14
sebsebsebI wanted Europe to win :)Feb 22 19:14
sebsebsebwhich countrey doesn't matterFeb 22 19:15
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: i didn't see any of the olympicsFeb 22 19:15
_GoblinI want to know when anti-trust is going to look at OEM...Im not saying offer Linux (since vendors support may be a prob) but I would like the option to buy a PC without Windows.Feb 22 19:15
FurnaceBoy+1Feb 22 19:15
FurnaceBoyOEM is almost the #1 issueFeb 22 19:15
sebsebseb+1Feb 22 19:15
FurnaceBoythe elephant in the roomFeb 22 19:16
sebsebseb_Goblin: well Dell do pre installed Ubuntu in some counteriesFeb 22 19:16
sebsebseband there's zareasonFeb 22 19:16
FurnaceBoywithout OEM, Microsoft will have to clean up their actFeb 22 19:16
FurnaceBoyor dieFeb 22 19:16
_GoblinFurnaceBoy: which is why I was confused when the EU targetted browsers.Feb 22 19:16
FurnaceBoyi don't really care which ;-)Feb 22 19:16
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: yeahFeb 22 19:16
sebsebsebhttp://www.zareason.comFeb 22 19:16
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: MS won that roundFeb 22 19:16
sebsebseb_Goblin: sadly system76 is  USA and  Canada onlyFeb 22 19:16
_GoblinI don't think its much to ask to be allowed to buy any PC without an OS...Feb 22 19:17
sebsebsebmaybe Ubuntu 14.04 will be able to compete quite a lot more properly against WIndows I hope soFeb 22 19:17
sebsebsebaround the same  time it get's released XP will run out of supportFeb 22 19:17
sebsebsebunless they extended it again of  course, but that's not that likelyFeb 22 19:17
_Goblinsebsebseb: I think the competition problems of Linux are merely due to the fact that MS has the money and paid PR to shout the loudest.Feb 22 19:17
sebsebseb_Goblin: quite a lot of people thought Ubuntu 9.10  should compete properly against Windows 7Feb 22 19:17
sebsebsebwhat they didn't reolize thoughFeb 22 19:18
sebsebsebis that Ubuntu 9.10 was never made to compete properly against WindowsFeb 22 19:18
_Goblinhaving used Windows 7 for some time now (for a feature on my site) it is far behind even 8.04 which btw I can get looking prettier than 7.Feb 22 19:18
sebsebseb10.04 is  made to compete against Windows more, but it won't be enough to win over lots and lots of the mass's I expectFeb 22 19:18
sebsebseband  hardware issuesFeb 22 19:18
sebsebsebwill put people offFeb 22 19:19
sebsebsebthey want things to just workFeb 22 19:19
cubezzzdoze is slowFeb 22 19:19
sebsebsebthey want Ubuntu to be like a free version of Windows, that can run their Windows apps and computer hardware without issuesFeb 22 19:19
sebsebseband that also is betterFeb 22 19:19
_Goblinsebsebseb: I have only ever had ONE hardware issue...that was finding a prepaid broadband dongle that would work with Linux.Feb 22 19:19
sebsebsebUbuntu  needs to tread carefuly with the being more like Windows stuffFeb 22 19:19
cubezzzdid you find one?Feb 22 19:19
sebsebsebif they do it to much, they will lose usersFeb 22 19:19
sebsebseband a lot of themFeb 22 19:19
sebsebsebsame thing if they start becoming more Mac OS X likeFeb 22 19:20
_Goblincubezzz: no....(it was last year) I ended up having to replace the Linux netbook for a Windows XP one....(I blogged about it last year on my hols)Feb 22 19:20
sebsebsebsomeone told me yesterday in IRCFeb 22 19:20
sebsebsebthey basically called Ubuntu the new FreespireFeb 22 19:20
cubezzzblahFeb 22 19:20
_Goblinsebsebseb: Ive actually got quite alot of confidence in Ubuntu after speaking with Jono.Feb 22 19:21
MinceRi'll wait for 10.04 with that :>Feb 22 19:21
sebsebsebor  did he put Linspire hrmFeb 22 19:21
sebsebsebMinceR: alpha 3 this ThursdayFeb 22 19:21
sebsebsebMinceR: rather feature completeFeb 22 19:21
sebsebsebvirtual machine test it or somethingFeb 22 19:21
MinceRi'd wait until the final releaseFeb 22 19:21
MinceRthen see how much mono/bingo/m$ crap there isFeb 22 19:21
sebsebseb_Goblin: they have proptiray stuff in UbuntuFeb 22 19:21
cubezzzI just like stuff I can modFeb 22 19:22
sebsebseb_Goblin: they don't use  freesoftware when they canFeb 22 19:22
sebsebsebthey use Mono when they could use something that isn't Mono :DFeb 22 19:22
MinceRand DaemonFC pointed out that the user switcher applet has ubuntu one integratedFeb 22 19:22
*jono has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)Feb 22 19:22
_Goblinsebsebseb: yes but is that an issue?  I mean Im using proprietary video drivers, I run proprietary games (albeit via emulation)...Feb 22 19:22
MinceRand some tray applets break if it isn't loadedFeb 22 19:22
MinceR_Goblin: the question is whether the system is functional without themFeb 22 19:22
MinceRin the case you for some reason cease to be able to use proprietary softwareFeb 22 19:23
cubezzzno one likes lgp? Feb 22 19:23
MinceRiirc LGP is quite into DRMFeb 22 19:23
_Goblinsebsebseb: I would say yes, I refuse to believe that Canonical would lead themselves down a narrow path at a time when they are not only trying to win the hearts and minds of new users but also of long time Linux users.Feb 22 19:23
sebsebseb_Goblin: anyway I  chat to a guy on IRC sometimes, who is worried about the commercial  stuffFeb 22 19:23
sebsebseb_Goblin: what Ubuntu is doing trying to make moneyFeb 22 19:24
sebsebsebworried about the commerlizationFeb 22 19:24
_Goblinsebsebseb: and without that money there is no Ubuntu.Feb 22 19:24
cubezzztoday's Ubuntu could become tomorrow's LinspireFeb 22 19:24
sebsebsebhow they will try and sell propritary stuff,  which according to this guy, isn't free software like.  or well he put something like thatFeb 22 19:24
_Goblinsebsebseb: Im not happy about the yahoo deal, however cash is cash.Feb 22 19:24
sebsebseb_Goblin: and what they will do for money as wellFeb 22 19:24
sebsebsebthe yahoo deal for exampleFeb 22 19:24
MinceRit's possible to make money without becoming a slave of m$Feb 22 19:25
sebsebseb_Goblin: right, but some of that money will be blood money or whatever you want to call itFeb 22 19:25
sebsebsebMinceR: indeedFeb 22 19:25
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_Goblinsebsebseb: but then look at Redhat....have they jumped into bed with Microsoft or are they running a very profitable Linux outfit?Feb 22 19:25
MinceRif canonical is unable to do that, it's their problem and it's no excuseFeb 22 19:25
sebsebseb_Goblin: what are you refering to?Feb 22 19:25
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sebsebsebMinceR: yepFeb 22 19:26
sebsebsebMinceR: anyway  I am planning on keeping out of the big Ubuntu channel untill AprilFeb 22 19:26
cubezzzno, Redhat took the high roadFeb 22 19:26
sebsebsebwill it work out is the thingFeb 22 19:26
_Goblinsebsebseb: I am refering to making a sucessful business out of Linux... Canonical will make its own decisions.  It will be judged by the results and shouldnt be by second guessing possible outcomes. (IMHO)Feb 22 19:26
sebsebsebgot other things I want to do and so onFeb 22 19:26
sebsebsebI spent way to much time in there last yearFeb 22 19:26
_Goblinsebsebseb: Jono really impressed me with his passion for Ubuntu.  If he is typical of a Canonical employee then I think the future is bright for Ubuntu.Feb 22 19:27
sebsebseb_Goblin: maybe you got brain washed a bit by Jono :dFeb 22 19:28
_Goblinsebsebseb: lol.  If you knew what I did for a living you wouldn't say that....Feb 22 19:28
jonosebsebseb, based on my experience of _Goblin, no one could brainwash him :)Feb 22 19:28
_GoblinlolFeb 22 19:28
jonolet alone a numpty like me :)Feb 22 19:28
sebsebseb_Goblin: he works for them,  he  represents them,  he  has to say good stuff about Ubuntu, or risk losing his job.   Wel DeamonFC said something like that before or whateverFeb 22 19:29
sebsebsebjono: I have a link actsaully that you shoudl probably readFeb 22 19:29
sebsebsebjono: that I gave _Goblin last nightFeb 22 19:29
jonocoolFeb 22 19:29
jonosend it over, will check in a bitFeb 22 19:29
jonoon the phone at the moFeb 22 19:29
_Goblinsebsebseb: I think its very difficult to have proper discussions via txt.  My chat with Jono was a casual chat between two people, it certainly was not PR.Feb 22 19:30
sebsebseb_Goblin: remind me what PR is?Feb 22 19:30
sebsebsebmeansFeb 22 19:30
_Goblinsebsebseb: Public relations....but if Jono is to be accused of it, then you could say that I was also speaking on behalf of who I represent.Feb 22 19:30
_Goblinand you could say that of everything I say.Feb 22 19:31
sebsebseb_Goblin: upstreams mess with thingsFeb 22 19:31
sebsebsebsometimesFeb 22 19:31
sebsebsebI gave examples earlierFeb 22 19:31
sebsebseb_Goblin: they also come out with major new versions sometimes, and try and get everyone using itFeb 22 19:31
sebsebsebGrub is a good example of thatFeb 22 19:31
sebsebsebthey won't support the old Grub in the offical  Grub channelFeb 22 19:32
sebsebsebthings keep on changing here and thereFeb 22 19:32
sebsebseband not always for the better, or at least for some of usFeb 22 19:32
sebsebsebso  I am not so sure anymore about any distro having  a lot of market share, and if that's really a good thingFeb 22 19:32
sebsebseba Linux distro is like a win to loads of great software,  however  what's  rather important is that people  use a good Internet browser isntead of Internet Explorer,   so then web can improveFeb 22 19:33
sebsebsebalso  maybe in the future, mobile will hit off loads, it looks likely, and then the desktop won't be that relivant anymore.  so all this stuff is hrmFeb 22 19:33
sebsebsebit would be great if I could see the computer future, and then decide what I am going to do with my life, but  sadly I can'tFeb 22 19:34
_Goblinsebsebseb: If you ever visit my blog you will know Im opinionated and outspoken.  In the case of Ubuntu/Canonical I think the misinterpretation is mine.  When people draw inference with Mono/Ubuntu they forget Mono is Novell, Canonical is Ubuntu.  Canonical is not likely to be silly enough to throw its eggs into one basket and as I say I think 10.04 is going to be something special and certainly a turning point for Linux on the deFeb 22 19:34
_Goblin*misinterpretation was mineFeb 22 19:34
sebsebseb_Goblin: well sureFeb 22 19:34
sebsebsebsince it 's LTSFeb 22 19:34
sebsebsebmany people will try Ubuntu again as a resultFeb 22 19:34
sebsebsebthe  channel will have about  uhmm 2000 users maybe?   when 10.04 comes out and for a while after thatFeb 22 19:35
_GoblinI would hope so.  Im going to be running the next alpha for a feature on Openbytes.Feb 22 19:35
sebsebseb_Goblin: that's when I want to help out a lot again in thereFeb 22 19:35
sebsebsebscrew KarmicFeb 22 19:36
sebsebsebgot other things to doFeb 22 19:36
sebsebsebI hope they have a decant log in screen in 10.04Feb 22 19:36
sebsebsebit's horrible in 9.10Feb 22 19:36
sebsebsebGDM 2 in 9.10 is horribleFeb 22 19:37
sebsebsebin my opinion, and quite a few or a lot of other peoples as wellFeb 22 19:37
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] recording !lo with streamripper. Can't follow the live show unfortunately at the moment.Feb 22 19:37
sebsebsebsomeone went in the big support channel whenever it was now, and was  saying basically that it's the uglyest thing they had ever seen,  and then I told them they din't have to use it and said about kdm and I think xdm as wellFeb 22 19:38
sebsebseb_Goblin: the year of Desktop Linux 2016 maybe?Feb 22 19:38
FurnaceBoyis windows ready for the desktop?Feb 22 19:38
sebsebsebI mean when  it   has like 10% or more market shareFeb 22 19:39
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: yes and noFeb 22 19:39
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: Windows uhmm  it didn't really get where it is now with all that market share fairlyFeb 22 19:39
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: speaking of that malware thing ... read an article recently claiming Apple has a competitive advantage because their employees don't use Windows PCs, and hence are not subject to foreign espionageFeb 22 19:39
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: which malware thing?Feb 22 19:40
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: above -- data theft, etc.Feb 22 19:40
sebsebsebah yes thatFeb 22 19:40
_Goblinsebsebseb: As long as MS and its PR machine is about, it will never be the year the Linux desktopFeb 22 19:40
FurnaceBoy+1Feb 22 19:40
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: foreign  espionage  uhmm not sure what that means,   I think you mean like  other counteries stealing data off other goverments?Feb 22 19:40
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: and corporationsFeb 22 19:40
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: when it is then called "industrial espionage" heheFeb 22 19:41
sebsebseband  criminalsFeb 22 19:41
_Goblinsebsebseb: look how long the MS faithful have claimed the 1%Feb 22 19:41
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: all the sameFeb 22 19:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: sure, but that browser ballot screenFeb 22 19:41
sebsebsebis the start of something?Feb 22 19:41
sebsebsebaltough  criminals could probably take advantage of that in a bad way as well hrmFeb 22 19:41
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's a market... remember the Goldman Sachs stolen code case? Feb 22 19:41
sebsebsebmaybeFeb 22 19:41
sebsebsebaltough  well we don't know what that screen will be, exactly yet?Feb 22 19:42
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: you can make money re-selling stolen dataFeb 22 19:42
_Goblinsebsebseb: too little too late, people already found out for themselves the advantages of moving from IE...those that don't know or didn't will still choose IE anyway.Feb 22 19:42
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: yepFeb 22 19:42
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: end run by MSFeb 22 19:42
sebsebseb_Goblin: not quite trueFeb 22 19:42
_Goblinbet the devil you know...and all that.Feb 22 19:42
sebsebseb_Goblin: I think quite a lot   of people will try another browser after seeing the screenFeb 22 19:42
_Goblin*betterFeb 22 19:42
sebsebsebaltough  will the screen say why Microsoft are doing a screen?Feb 22 19:42
_Goblinsebsebseb: I would disagree.  I would find it hard to believe those same people had not seen a single reference to another browser and tried for themselves already if they were so inclined.Feb 22 19:43
FurnaceBoyrightFeb 22 19:43
sebsebseb_Goblin: some people might have heard of Firefox for example, but not done it, because they thought IE was okFeb 22 19:43
sebsebseband then suddenly a screenFeb 22 19:43
FurnaceBoymost ppl will find it baffling Feb 22 19:43
sebsebseband then they do FirefoxFeb 22 19:43
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: some %, sure.Feb 22 19:43
MinceRmany users probably don't know they have a choiceFeb 22 19:43
MinceRjust like with OS-esFeb 22 19:43
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: most ppl don't even know what a web browser is, they just want the webFeb 22 19:43
FurnaceBoyMinceR: rightFeb 22 19:43
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: trueFeb 22 19:44
_Goblinsebsebseb: so I don't think a ballot screen would make any more difference that a result on a search engine or word of mouth.Feb 22 19:44
FurnaceBoyMinceR: MS succeeded in equating "computer" with "Windows PC"Feb 22 19:44
FurnaceBoyMinceR: in the public mindFeb 22 19:44
_Goblinand IE with the internet.Feb 22 19:44
MinceRand "the Internet" with IEFeb 22 19:44
sebsebseb_Goblin: well uhmm  a few million or so people will see it?Feb 22 19:44
sebsebsebis XP going to get it as well? I hope soFeb 22 19:44
FurnaceBoyyes.Feb 22 19:44
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I haven't  been on Vista since uhmm  quite a whileFeb 22 19:44
FurnaceBoyyes: IE appears == the internet. which is partly why fixing that is so hard...Feb 22 19:44
sebsebseb,butFeb 22 19:44
FurnaceBoyas hard as fixing the OEM problem..Feb 22 19:44
sebsebsebI might get the updates soon after the screenFeb 22 19:44
sebsebsebhopeing I get it :DFeb 22 19:45
_Goblinsebsebseb: but as I say if those few million have never seen another browser, how will a ballot screen convince them to change?Feb 22 19:45
sebsebsebI should be getting itFeb 22 19:45
sebsebseb_Goblin: I read something before about howFeb 22 19:45
_Goblinsebsebseb: any more than the exposure other browsers have already had?Feb 22 19:45
sebsebseb_Goblin: it could be a bit of a bad idea, because it's like spyware in a wayFeb 22 19:45
sebsebsebdoing something else and then suddenly a screen pops upFeb 22 19:45
sebsebsebeven a lot of the ignorant Windows users, know they shoudn't just click on random links and such, right?Feb 22 19:46
_Goblinsebsebseb: like I say, I think the EU should have tackled the issue of OEM instead.Feb 22 19:46
MinceRafaik it will pop up on loginFeb 22 19:46
sebsebseb_Goblin: there is thatFeb 22 19:46
sebsebseb,butFeb 22 19:46
_Goblinsebsebseb: IE is really a moot point and it can be argued that it does a service to everyone else since its so exploitable the criminals target that and leave the rest of us alone.Feb 22 19:46
sebsebsebin a way  what browser someone uses is more important what os they use?Feb 22 19:46
_Goblinsebsebseb: I think as we move towards more web based apps, that will be the case.Feb 22 19:47
sebsebseb_Goblin: well there have been fake  new version of Firefox sites, recentlyFeb 22 19:47
MinceRit does a disservice as it damages web standardsFeb 22 19:47
FurnaceBoywell, like everything MS does, imho it is very costly but temporaryFeb 22 19:48
_GoblinMinceR: there is that. However how many sites have you found insaccessable due to the damage of IE?Feb 22 19:48
sebsebsebMinceR: yep it has held the web back, for quite a few years alreadyFeb 22 19:48
sebsebsebMinceR: and Windows holds the whole of computing back yearsFeb 22 19:48
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: it is a significant burden on the development sideFeb 22 19:48
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yesFeb 22 19:48
MinceR_Goblin: not sure -- i've not tried to access sites with IE for years, so if it was broken because of that or for another reason, i wouldn't knowFeb 22 19:49
_GoblinFurnaceBoy: Im quite sure it is, but as I talk from more of an end-user position, its something that is rather well hidden from the masses.Feb 22 19:49
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: yes, who still think IE is 'the web' as you sayFeb 22 19:49
*sebsebseb lives in a world with many stupid peopleFeb 22 19:49
sebsebsebnot just at computers, but in general hrmFeb 22 19:50
_Goblintypical Microsoft will always use the "generic" words in its titles to imply it is the only solution..i.e Office...Word....Internet Explorer.....Feb 22 19:50
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 22 19:51
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] An average person is probably healthier and longer lived in Cuba than than in Usonia. 22 19:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 88.16 KBFeb 22 19:51
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: some people won't use a computer program, if they don't like it's nameFeb 22 19:52
_GoblinOne just has to look at the fuss made about Aero to see how held back Microsoft has kept the user.....we've been having such luxuries for years.Feb 22 19:52
sebsebsebAero sucks reallyFeb 22 19:52
sebsebsebin fact I need to have the driver for the graphics  card installed it seems, for it to even work properlyFeb 22 19:53
sebsebsebnot sure where that CD has disapperad toFeb 22 19:53
sebsebseb,butFeb 22 19:53
sebsebsebI hardly ever go on Vista anyway so whateverFeb 22 19:53
_Goblinsebsebseb: not for someone who's always used windowsFeb 22 19:53
sebsebseb_Goblin: quite a lot of people  are still happy with XP that use WindowsFeb 22 19:53
sebsebseband don't really see the point in later versionsFeb 22 19:53
sebsebsebhowever those same people most of them, are likely to be forced into a later version, when it's timeFeb 22 19:54
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 22 19:54
FurnaceBoyoften when they buy a new pc because they think the old one is "sick" or "broken"Feb 22 19:54
_Goblinsebsebseb: true...that was the question I asked a while ago....what does 7 actually offer?Feb 22 19:54
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: yeahFeb 22 19:54
cubezzz:-PFeb 22 19:54
cubezzzyou can keep a computer running a long timeFeb 22 19:54
sebsebseb_Goblin: a paint that  is a bit like paint .netFeb 22 19:54
sebsebseb_Goblin: I prefer the old paintFeb 22 19:54
sebsebsebjust like I prefer the old Freecell and such, to what's in VistaFeb 22 19:55
sebsebsebalso wordpad the old one yeahFeb 22 19:55
sebsebseblater one is just a cut down of Word 2007 basicalleyFeb 22 19:55
cubezzzno one likes eus? :)Feb 22 19:55
sebsebseb_Goblin: What does Windows offer?Feb 22 19:55
sebsebsebit offersFeb 22 19:55
_Goblinsebsebseb: for me, (and cubezz may agree here) there is nothing to beat Dpaint 2Feb 22 19:55
sebsebsebwell it doesn't really offer much it selfFeb 22 19:56
sebsebsebit's just  since it has most of that market, most apps  that many people want to run, will run on itFeb 22 19:56
cubezzzok, now you're really talking old :)Feb 22 19:56
sebsebseband  most PC hardware will work with itFeb 22 19:56
_Goblincubezzz: ;)Feb 22 19:56
sebsebseb_Goblin: you like the latest paint?Feb 22 19:56
_Goblinsebsebseb: no.Feb 22 19:57
cubezzz_Goblin, the only thing is it was closed sourceFeb 22 19:57
cubezzzunless someone opened it up at some pointFeb 22 19:57
_Goblinsebsebseb: May paint package requirements mean I don't really need a paint package...I generally use online apps for basic photo editing.Feb 22 19:57
_Goblin*myFeb 22 19:57
*sebsebseb thinks it would be great if a day comes when most computer users, find out, what we know nowFeb 22 19:57
sebsebsebhow Microsoft have held computing back and that kind of stuffFeb 22 19:57
sebsebsebimagine all the unhappy litlte consumers heh hehFeb 22 19:58
cubezzz 22 19:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Deluxe Paint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 45.04 KBFeb 22 19:58
schestowitzIt's happeningFeb 22 19:58
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_Goblinwhat would we talk about though?Feb 22 19:58
sebsebsebwill a day like that ever come, I guess not?   after all most people  don't like computers enoughFeb 22 19:58
schestowitzWe are federating markets outside desktops :-)Feb 22 19:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: in a way yeahFeb 22 19:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: hence a lot of unhappy Windows users going UbuntuFeb 22 19:58
schestowitzMaemo is niceFeb 22 19:58
iantoTrisquel is nice ;)Feb 22 19:59
_Goblina Goblin recommendation for everyone.....Feb 22 19:59
sebsebsebmobile uhmmFeb 22 19:59
sebsebsebthey keep that stuff secretFeb 22 19:59
_GoblinDebian based Elive is great!Feb 22 19:59
sebsebsebwhat OS your mobile phone is running, well they will beFeb 22 19:59
schestowitzianto: was it one of the free/libre ones?Feb 22 19:59
sebsebsebmost mobile phones will run Linux soonFeb 22 19:59
sebsebseb,but "the consumer" won't know thatFeb 22 19:59
_Goblincubezzz: Elive is very should take a look!Feb 22 19:59
iantoschestowitz: YEah, it's FSF backed and Ubuntu basedFeb 22 19:59
iantoschestowitz: 22 20:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Trisquel GNU/Linux | ¡Vai por libre! .::. Size~: 19.85 KBFeb 22 20:00
*schestowitz looks againFeb 22 20:00
schestowitzThey have a nice site designFeb 22 20:00
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah one good thing about  all this Microsoft stuff and thatFeb 22 20:01
sebsebseb_Goblin: is it gives us geeks, something to chat to each other aboutFeb 22 20:01
schestowitzBette than 22 20:01
cubezzzMicrosoft blows! Doze blows!Feb 22 20:01
cubezzzconversation done!Feb 22 20:01
cubezzz;-)Feb 22 20:01
_Goblinsebsebseb: very true....can you imagine how dull it would be without Microsoft antics and stage performances by Ballmer?Feb 22 20:01
schestowitz 22 20:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mud torrent kills at least 40 islanders in Portugal |  Raw Story .::. Size~: 26.54 KBFeb 22 20:01
schestowitzI don't expect CNN/BBC to cover this... they are not "white Western people" and it's not an explosion on something like a planeFeb 22 20:02
cubezzzwe own in curling today :)Feb 22 20:03
cubezzzalert Ted KoppelFeb 22 20:03
_Goblinschestowitz: I thought someone from the UK did die?Feb 22 20:03
sebsebsebschestowitz: BBC tends to cover  things like that doesn't it?Feb 22 20:03
cubezzzwon evenFeb 22 20:03
sebsebsebschestowitz: Portuagal is Europe just like the UKFeb 22 20:03
sebsebsebcubezzz: down hill skiing, and that's all I have seen properly, from the olympicsFeb 22 20:04
cubezzzno curling?Feb 22 20:04
sebsebsebcubezzz: for a bit,  and then got bored of itFeb 22 20:05
cubezzzthey're showing it all the time over hereFeb 22 20:05
sebsebsebcubezzz: same hereFeb 22 20:05
sebsebseb_Goblin:  schestowitz  ianto  Eurosport is better than BBC 2 for the olympics, in fact not everything has been shown on BBC 2Feb 22 20:05
cubezzzah, the women lost against ChinaFeb 22 20:07
sebsebsebcubezzz: I don't want USA to win things :DFeb 22 20:07
sebsebsebcubezzz: I want Europe to win :)Feb 22 20:07
sebsebsebOlympics is for "the consumer as well"  but whatever when it comes to the down hill stuff :DFeb 22 20:08
cubezzzNorway is doing very wellFeb 22 20:09
_Goblinsebsebseb: not an olympics fan.....wrestling/football fan only.Feb 22 20:10
sebsebsebjono: 22 20:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Advogato: Blog for mbanck .::. Size~: 8.39 KBFeb 22 20:11
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sebsebseb_Goblin: most of the Winter Olympics I am not interested inFeb 22 20:12
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trmancoit had to snow today :(Feb 22 20:12
sebsebsebtrmanco: it snowed here the other dayFeb 22 20:12
sebsebseball gone nowFeb 22 20:12
_Goblinive been looking at Zatoo for Ubuntu....very good TV streamer there.....Feb 22 20:12
_Goblinsorry its ZattooFeb 22 20:13
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah I think I know about thatFeb 22 20:13
trmancosouthern ontario is being hit by a snow stormFeb 22 20:13
sebsebsebonline  TV Feb 22 20:13
FurnaceBoytrmanco: dude. this ain't snowFeb 22 20:13
sebsebsebchannel programFeb 22 20:13
sebsebseb?Feb 22 20:13
FurnaceBoytrmanco: we haven't *had* snow this winter...Feb 22 20:13
FurnaceBoytrmanco: by now we should have had at least one blizzardFeb 22 20:13
_Goblinyep...I can also get some foriegn sports channels that I lost when sky went digitalFeb 22 20:13
FurnaceBoytrmanco: but the USA stole all our snow this yerFeb 22 20:13
FurnaceBoyyear*Feb 22 20:13
schestowitztrmanco: could be worseFeb 22 20:13
schestowitz 22 20:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mud torrent kills at least 40 islanders in Portugal |  Raw Story .::. Size~: 26.54 KBFeb 22 20:13
trmancoFurnaceBoy: I know, but it still is snowing like crap :(Feb 22 20:13
sebsebseb_Goblin: those things tend to have BBC on it and that's about itFeb 22 20:14
trmancoyesterday was such a nice sunny dayFeb 22 20:14
FurnaceBoytrmanco: i'm looking out my window, hasn't even covered the road yet. you must be getting heavier faillFeb 22 20:14
FurnaceBoyfall*Feb 22 20:14
FurnaceBoyyes yesterday was beautifulFeb 22 20:14
sebsebseb_Goblin:  What TV you got?Feb 22 20:14
_Goblinits got quite a comprehensive list...and since the browser based ITV is awful...its a good little ap.Feb 22 20:14
sebsebseb_Goblin: TV providerFeb 22 20:14
trmancomy driveway has about 2cm of snowFeb 22 20:14
trmanco1*Feb 22 20:14
schestowitz"Bandwidth Limit Exceeded" 22 20:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 500 Internal Server Error .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 22 20:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Site report for .::. Size~: 10.2 KBFeb 22 20:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Argentinians invade Falkland Islands website • The Register .::. Size~: 18.8 KBFeb 22 20:15
trmancoit's nothing, but it's snow :PFeb 22 20:15
_Goblin 22 20:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: TV Channels | Zattoo - watch online TV .::. Size~: 60.35 KBFeb 22 20:15
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah online TV  can be good, got a direct link, I feel lazy etc, so don't want to search :DFeb 22 20:15
sebsebseb_Goblin: I guess it's the name with a .comFeb 22 20:15
trmancoand I thought winter was over :PFeb 22 20:15
sebsebseb_Goblin: What annoys me is when Click isn't on the Catch Up TV on demand, meaning I got to watch onlineFeb 22 20:16
FurnaceBoytrmanco: almostFeb 22 20:16
sebsebseb_Goblin: on the IplayerFeb 22 20:16
sebsebsebBBC ClickFeb 22 20:16
_GoblinahhhFeb 22 20:16
_GoblinnoFeb 22 20:16
_GoblinClick....Feb 22 20:16
sebsebseb_Goblin: it's happended again the lastest one isn't there,  this happended about three weeks ago as well,  so  i'll have to watch online it seems on the IplayerFeb 22 20:16
sebsebseb_Goblin: don't like Click?Feb 22 20:16
_Goblintalked about Dropbox last week like it was just out....Feb 22 20:16
trmanco 22 20:17
_Goblinhate it with a passion.  Out of date, pointless.Feb 22 20:17
sebsebseb_Goblin: indeedFeb 22 20:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Weather News: Winter's NOT Over Yet - The Weather Network .::. Size~: 35.72 KBFeb 22 20:17
sebsebseb_Goblin: out of date?Feb 22 20:17
_Goblinbut worse than that we pay for it with our licence fee.Feb 22 20:17
sebsebseb_Goblin: it's one of the few British TV shows I likeFeb 22 20:17
_Goblinyeah out of date....Ive yet to see something reported which is unknown to me.Feb 22 20:17
sebsebsebI dislike most British TV showsFeb 22 20:17
sebsebsebthis countrey is meant to have such great TV LOLFeb 22 20:18
sebsebsebmost of it sucksFeb 22 20:18
_GoblinRemember the Big Boy Barry Game Show?  - That was my fav show.Feb 22 20:18
sebsebsebAmericn TVFeb 22 20:18
sebsebseb24Feb 22 20:18
sebsebsebetcFeb 22 20:18
_GoblinVFeb 22 20:18
_Goblinthe new V is very good.Feb 22 20:18
schestowitzClick is badFeb 22 20:18
schestowitzMicrosoft CliqueFeb 22 20:18
sebsebseb_Goblin: you watched Click last week, even though you don't like it?Feb 22 20:18
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah it tends to be aimed at  "the stupid ignorant consumer that has a bit of an interest in technology"Feb 22 20:19
schestowitzThey call Windows "computer"Feb 22 20:19
_Goblinit was on when I switched on BBC News.Feb 22 20:19
_Goblinit was talking about dropbox.Feb 22 20:19
sebsebsebschestowitz: so quite a lot of Windows stuff  and they like going on about social networking sites, and mobile phonesFeb 22 20:19
schestowitz_Goblin: 22 20:19
sebsebsebevery now and again though  a bit of Linux  stuff :)Feb 22 20:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter bomb threat joke man faces possible jail sentence • The Register .::. Size~: 22.36 KBFeb 22 20:19
schestowitzI guess I have a tool for putting me in jail on my desktopFeb 22 20:19
_Goblinschestowitz: having a look.Feb 22 20:20
schestowitzIf I hit the wrong keys and hit ENTERFeb 22 20:20
sebsebseb_Goblin: have you ever seen it properly?Feb 22 20:20
sebsebsebsome Click's suckFeb 22 20:20
sebsebsebothers are pretty goodFeb 22 20:20
schestowitzsebsebseb: Click broke the lawFeb 22 20:20
sebsebseb_Goblin: they didn't do much for Windows 7 :)Feb 22 20:20
sebsebsebschestowitz: the botnet experiment you mean?Feb 22 20:21
sebsebsebthe botnet showing you mean?Feb 22 20:21
schestowitz 22 20:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Verdict: The BBC Broke the Law with Microsoft Windows Botnets, Which Conficker Continues Building (Updated) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.65 KBFeb 22 20:21
schestowitz 22 20:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Isnt the MSBBC Breaking the Law by Hijacking 22,000 Taxpayers PCs, at Taxpayers Expense? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.56 KBFeb 22 20:21
schestowitz 22 20:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC Wants to Build Another Windows Botnet | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.05 KBFeb 22 20:21
schestowitz 22 20:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC Unable to Defend Windows Botnets Fiasco | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.37 KBFeb 22 20:21
sebsebsebschestowitz: that's old stuffFeb 22 20:21
_Goblinschestowitz: Do you know the actual charge?  I would personally have said it more of a Sec4 Public Order....if a court would buy that for a "vitual venue"Feb 22 20:21
sebsebsebschestowitz: also that was an interesting episodeFeb 22 20:21
sebsebsebwhere they gave the general public an idea what a botnet is likeFeb 22 20:21
_Goblin*virtualFeb 22 20:21
sebsebsebthere's something about how they can brake the law  if it's in the interst of the general public or whateverFeb 22 20:22
schestowitzIt's against the lawFeb 22 20:22
schestowitzSee my posts about itFeb 22 20:22
_Goblinschestowitz: its being heard in magistrates so if theres a custodial it will only be a max of 6 months.Feb 22 20:22
sebsebsebwell  they got away with itFeb 22 20:22
sebsebseb_Goblin: oh there's a case?Feb 22 20:23
_Goblinsebsebseb: One thing the press has taught me over the years....what you read is often grossly different from reality.Feb 22 20:23
schestowitz_Goblin: would would be funny if as an act of solidarity we all just tweeted "Crap! Robin Hood Airport is closed. You've got a week and a bit to get your shit together otherwise I'm blowing the airport sky high!"Feb 22 20:24
_Goblinsebsebseb: case in point, Oink, TPB...Feb 22 20:24
schestowitzLike, "she's my wife TOO"Feb 22 20:24
sebsebseb_Goblin: that last bit, not sure what you meanFeb 22 20:24
sebsebsebalso laws are unclearFeb 22 20:24
_Goblinschestowitz: but youve now changed the circumstance.....everyone would be aware that you were refering to a case in the news.Feb 22 20:24
sebsebsebthey really areFeb 22 20:24
cubezzzI doubt you get in trouble on IRCFeb 22 20:24
sebsebsebmost people know the basic ones, like don't murder peopleFeb 22 20:24
sebsebseband that's about itFeb 22 20:25
cubezzzcould be a bot, could be anythingFeb 22 20:25
_Goblinschestowitz: although I stand to be corrected since the IRC logs here are posted.Feb 22 20:25
sebsebsebloads of laws that most people don't know aboutFeb 22 20:25
sebsebseband you can't just find out, what is legal and what is notFeb 22 20:25
_Goblingoogle?Feb 22 20:25
sebsebsebyou can't say search some goverment website or something, and find out if something is legal or notFeb 22 20:25
sebsebseb_Goblin: google will come up with loads of stuffFeb 22 20:25
_Goblinwhat do you want to knowFeb 22 20:25
sebsebsebnot everything on the web is accurateFeb 22 20:25
_Goblinwhat do you want to know?Feb 22 20:25
_GoblinI am/Feb 22 20:25
sebsebseb_Goblin: your a laywer?Feb 22 20:26
sebsebseblawyerFeb 22 20:26
_Goblinnope.Feb 22 20:26
_Goblinnot at all.Feb 22 20:26
sebsebsebanyway I am just saying here basicalleyFeb 22 20:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If this is accurate coverage, then the legal system has gone bat* insane. 22 20:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter bomb threat joke man faces possible jail sentence • The Register .::. Size~: 22.36 KBFeb 22 20:26
cubezzzyeah don't make jokes about bombsFeb 22 20:27
sebsebseb_Goblin: anyway you never seen an episode of Click propelry?Feb 22 20:27
_Goblinyes...once or twice.Feb 22 20:27
sebsebsebI think need to  see a few more times then just thatFeb 22 20:27
_GoblinI loved the whole 5 minutes of attention they gave one time to FOSS.Feb 22 20:28
sebsebsebbefore you have a proper valid reason to express your opinion about the showFeb 22 20:28
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sebsebsebreason to I meanFeb 22 20:28
sebsebseb_Goblin: yep the Linux stuff won't be in there muchFeb 22 20:28
sebsebseband stuff like thatFeb 22 20:28
sebsebsebsometimes if we are luckyFeb 22 20:28
_Goblinsebsebseb: I have watched it everytime its on.  I watch it so that if there is something silly enough on it, I can rip it to shreads on the blog.Feb 22 20:28
sebsebseb_Goblin: I watch it sinceFeb 22 20:29
sebsebsebwell  can sometimes get some interesting sites from webscapeFeb 22 20:29
_Goblinso far its merely dull, uninspired and out of date.....reporting on Dropbox last week?  How long has dropbox been about?Feb 22 20:29
sebsebsebsometimes they have the episode about something kind of interestingFeb 22 20:29
sebsebsebI think I seen that out of date stuff myself beforeFeb 22 20:29
_Goblinsebsebseb: any site/podcast does that....and it doesn't take money from you to do so.Feb 22 20:29
sebsebsebyears on stuff or month or whateverFeb 22 20:29
sebsebsebsomething like thatFeb 22 20:29
sebsebseb_Goblin: well it's the only UK   techonlogy show?Feb 22 20:30
_GoblinI wonder when Click will showcase Ubuntu 8.04LTS...if dropbox is anything to go by, around 2012.Feb 22 20:30
sebsebseb_Goblin: hehFeb 22 20:30
sebsebsebnahFeb 22 20:30
sebsebsebit's not that sillyFeb 22 20:30
_Goblin;)Feb 22 20:30
_GoblinI was being flippant of course.Feb 22 20:30
sebsebsebin fact  there was an episode where it showed them downloading UbuntuFeb 22 20:30
sebsebseband it was the latest one at the timeFeb 22 20:30
_Goblinyeah...I think they gave it a full 4 mins.Feb 22 20:31
sebsebsebwell I think it was the latest one,  if not I guess the latest LTSFeb 22 20:31
sebsebsebyeah the world is sick in a wayFeb 22 20:31
sebsebsebwhen it comes to all this kind of stuffFeb 22 20:31
sebsebsebthey love their propritary software,  and most users don't know betterFeb 22 20:31
_Goblinif MS sneezes though, Click will use a whole show to say how great it is.Feb 22 20:31
sebsebseb,but even the ones that should know better, still love their propritary softwareFeb 22 20:31
_Goblinnothing wrong with proprietary...Feb 22 20:32
sebsebseb_Goblin: I thought they would have a whole show or nearly a whole show for Windows 7, but luckily that didn't happen :)Feb 22 20:32
FurnaceBoythere's a strain of pragmatism that likes to believe the problem is purely technical, and not political/legalFeb 22 20:32
_Goblinhorses for courses.Feb 22 20:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @schestowitz better to be chided in the press than to give another office bod a career advantage , well obviously :)Feb 22 20:32
sebsebsebschestowitz: you watch Click?Feb 22 20:32
sebsebsebschestowitz: like every week?Feb 22 20:32
_GoblinI support FOSS/Linux not because its free but because its better software.  I'd happily do the same if Linux was proprietaryFeb 22 20:32
sebsebseb_Goblin: yeah I support this stuff since it's better software, and the software freedom to an extentFeb 22 20:33
sebsebseb_Goblin: most users use this stuff since it's good and "free as in price"Feb 22 20:33
sebsebsebthey don't care/know about the freedomsFeb 22 20:33
_Goblinthe free part is an added bonus.Feb 22 20:33
_Goblinso is the "open"Feb 22 20:33
_GoblinI sometimes think though that the FSF viewpoint can be as guilty as Microsoft in terms of "Do it our way or not at all"Feb 22 20:34
_Goblinreality is, people can and do use a mix....and thats fine.Feb 22 20:34
sebsebseb_Goblin: yep most users do a mixFeb 22 20:35
sebsebsebnot many people doing 100% free softwareFeb 22 20:35
sebsebsebalso it's fine to mix Gnome and KDE apps,  but some people are quite against thatFeb 22 20:35
_Goblinand for me true software freedom is the ability to use both or indeed whatever they please.  Where MS fails is that it attempts to lock you in and trap you.Feb 22 20:35
cubezzzmy perspective is differentFeb 22 20:35
cubezzzI want the source code for everythingFeb 22 20:35
_Goblincubezzz: and thats fine too.Feb 22 20:36
sebsebsebeven as just an end userFeb 22 20:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Things people say..Is that Robin Hood airport in the wrong countyFeb 22 20:36
sebsebsebit should be common sense reallyFeb 22 20:36
sebsebsebif a program has it's source code available to the general publicFeb 22 20:36
sebsebsebthat's a great thingFeb 22 20:36
cubezzzit isFeb 22 20:36
sebsebsebso proggrammers from all over the world can contribute and make betterFeb 22 20:36
_Goblinand the end-user benefits again.Feb 22 20:36
sebsebseb_Goblin: yep Microsoft,  Apple, and Adobe, are about locking people inFeb 22 20:36
sebsebsebthey aren't the only technology companies of courseFeb 22 20:37
sebsebsebeven Google to some extent will try and lock people in a bit I guess?   maybe this an example,  buzz inside Gmail?Feb 22 20:37
_GoblinIve used Buzz once....Ive yet to work out why I would need it.Feb 22 20:37
cubezzzno question about itFeb 22 20:37
sebsebsebcubezzz: to what I put?Feb 22 20:37
cubezzzgoogle is trying to lock people in, just not as bad as MicrosoftFeb 22 20:38
sebsebsebI saw the video thing after it asked me if I wanted to use buzz, I  haven't used itFeb 22 20:38
cubezzzyou see, if GNU/Linux tried to lock people in, that would also be badFeb 22 20:38
_GoblinI think we have to accept that any company (in an ideal world) would like to lock you in.  Why would they want to see their userbase exercising their freedom of choice?Feb 22 20:38
cubezzzmost people don't exercise freedom of choiceFeb 22 20:39
sebsebsebI think we have to accept that companies aren't "really are friends"  and not even CanonicalFeb 22 20:39
cubezzzyou have to want to have freedomFeb 22 20:39
sebsebsebSun  was a good company I guessFeb 22 20:40
sebsebsebI don't know that much about themFeb 22 20:40
sebsebsebanyway yeah companies aren't are friendsFeb 22 20:40
cubezzzXerox was a good company :)Feb 22 20:40
sebsebsebthey just want to make money out of us and suchFeb 22 20:40
MinceRxerox had incompetent managementFeb 22 20:40
sebsebsebthey might have produced some great/interesting products,  but they want to make money out of us even soFeb 22 20:40
cubezzzwell, their employees had amazing ideasFeb 22 20:40
sebsebsebcompaniesFeb 22 20:40
MinceRdespite all the computer technology they had, they insisted on focusing on dead tree documentsFeb 22 20:41
cubezzzand yes, they messed up big-timeFeb 22 20:41
MinceRyes, there were some great minds at PARCFeb 22 20:41
sebsebsebcapitalism and consuerism hold back computing here and there,  but also improve itFeb 22 20:41
tessierNone of those employees would have been able to show off those good ideas if nobody in management had seen the potential and funded them.Feb 22 20:41
tessierIt is very hard to leave behind a very successful photocopying business and take huge risks on a totally new business.Feb 22 20:41
cubezzzit does show being the first does not automatically mean victoryFeb 22 20:41
sebsebsebcubezzz: the Winter olympics show that as wellFeb 22 20:42
sebsebseb:DFeb 22 20:42
tessierHindsight is 20/20Feb 22 20:42
sebsebsebcubezzz: in fact  at a disadvantage if 1st of 2nd  when doing those kind of things really I guess?Feb 22 20:42
sebsebsebwell if the other people know the time to beatFeb 22 20:42
cubezzzit's a constant never ending raceFeb 22 20:43
cubezzzyou can always fall behindFeb 22 20:43
cubezzzeven the Big MFeb 22 20:43
schestowitzsebsebseb: I don't watch The Clique :-)Feb 22 20:45
schestowitz 22 20:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: HP Labs' Central Nervous System for the Earth project aims to build a planetwide sensing network: HP Labs Feature Article (November 2009) .::. Size~: 17.04 KBFeb 22 20:46
schestowitzThe Linux Foundation got some PR bunnies now... hmmmmm :-( .. "Jennifer Cloer"Feb 22 20:46
*ender2070 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 22 20:48
FurnaceBoytrmanco: this is shaping up to be a more interesting snowfall. not before time. Feb 22 20:48
FurnaceBoyabout the heaviest i've seen all WinterFeb 22 20:48
FurnaceBoy:)Feb 22 20:48
trmancoyes, it might be the heaviestFeb 22 20:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Frankie Teardrop. 22 20:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: reddragdiva | Frankie Teardrop. .::. Size~: 27.33 KBFeb 22 20:51
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: via @satipera 22 20:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: reddragdiva: Frankie Teardrop. .::. Size~: 18.73 KBFeb 22 20:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: George Galloway MP (georgegalloway) on Twitter .::. Size~: 23.31 KBFeb 22 20:51
FurnaceBoy 22 20:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: THE PRAGMATIC CAPITALIST  »   » INSIDER SELLING SOARS TO 2010 HIGH .::. Size~: 37.64 KBFeb 22 20:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Live and learn Usonian is a derivative from a fork of esperanto. If we had coined it first I would be more than happy with Eusonian citizen.Feb 22 21:00
schestowitz 22 21:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Take That, Chevy Volt! Cal Poly Car Gets 2,752 MPG | Autopia | .::. Size~: 88.74 KBFeb 22 21:00
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: real account?Feb 22 21:00
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: seems soFeb 22 21:01
*trmanco has quit (Quit: Ooops!!)Feb 22 21:03
schestowitz_Goblin: 22 21:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Arrests are being made 'to expand DNA files' - Times Online  .::. Size~: 104.75 KBFeb 22 21:04
FurnaceBoy 22 21:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: AMD Canada Slated to Receive $56 Million CAD Grant from Ontario Government | Business Wire .::. Size~: 62.8 KBFeb 22 21:11
FurnaceBoy 22 21:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Wall Street's Bailout Hustle : Rolling Stone .::. Size~: 46.1 KBFeb 22 21:19
FurnaceBoy"Goldman Sachs and other big banks aren't just pocketing the trillions we gave them to rescue the economy - they're re-creating the conditions for another crash"Feb 22 21:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] The reason why I still play guitar....a true guitar hero. 22 21:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @saintpaul007 RT @activistgirl: #GoldmanSachs are re-creating the conditions 4 another crash @chonabo @mparent77772Feb 22 21:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Joe Satriani Clinic Ibanez Always With Me, Always With You .::. Size~: 119.96 KBFeb 22 21:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Wall Street's Bailout Hustle : Rolling Stone .::. Size~: 46.1 KBFeb 22 21:22
_GoblinQuote "Police are routinely arresting people simply to record their DNA profiles on the national database, according to a report published today"Feb 22 21:25
_Goblinabsolute rubbish....lies.Feb 22 21:25
_GoblinIf it were true it would have to be a conspiracy on so many levels....Feb 22 21:25
_Goblinfirstly the original officer.Feb 22 21:26
_Goblinsecondly the custody sgt who authorizes detentionFeb 22 21:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Goldman Sachs & rest of Wall St are drinking yr milkshake #fraudFeb 22 21:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin Yes but can he set his frets on fire.Feb 22 21:26
_Goblinthirdly the PACE Inspector who reviews persons detained.Feb 22 21:26
_GoblinThe rest of the "stats" they give are rubbish too.Feb 22 21:27
_GoblinQuote "it is now the norm to arrest offenders for everything if there is a power to do so."Feb 22 21:28
_Goblinwrong again...Feb 22 21:28
_Goblinbad reporting...Feb 22 21:29
_Goblinsince the removal of what was called Section 25.  An arrest is only justified if one or more conditions can be met.Feb 22 21:29
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: what happened to the URL?Feb 22 21:29
schestowitzLooks like a parked domainFeb 22 21:29
schestowitz_Goblin: the Times is not the mailFeb 22 21:29
schestowitzBut still, i's Murdoch trashFeb 22 21:30
_Goblinif that arrest facilitates prompt and effective investigation is one....Feb 22 21:30
_Goblinroy, that article is complete lies.Feb 22 21:30
schestowitzSo why was it published?Feb 22 21:30
_Goblinbecause its an easy target....since when do government agencies sue>Feb 22 21:30
_Goblinit mentions nothing about the innocent people spared arrest because of DNA.  It mentions nothing about the highprofile cases solved with DNA.....Feb 22 21:32
_Goblinit mentions nothing of ID's of deceased persons through DNA or the ability to link crimes around the country with ease with it.Feb 22 21:33
schestowitz 22 21:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: An unfortunate ending | Business - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 87.42 KBFeb 22 21:33
schestowitz"After reading all of the ZDnet posting, I have serious misgivings about InfoWorld. Do you vet your columnists/bloggers at all? Are you more deeply involved in this mess than you say? Perhaps we can get more reliable information elsewhere. I think a more serious effort at explaining IDG's editorial policies and performance trying to live up to those policies is in order."Feb 22 21:33
schestowitz"If intetrity is so important to Infoworld, why did you let that bozo write for you to begin with? His absolute nonsense might have been good for The Onion, but a serious, news re-lated website that runs the absolute crap click-baiting stories he wrote has to at least admit they were asking for trouble to begin with. This has been a massive black eye to Infoworld's credibility, and to plead ignorance is just a little too disingenuous Feb 22 21:33
*jono has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Feb 22 21:33
schestowitzto begin with."Feb 22 21:33
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: parked domain?Feb 22 21:34
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: how weird.Feb 22 21:35
schestowitzYeahFeb 22 21:35
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it expands to the correct URL.Feb 22 21:35
schestowitzI tried twiceFeb 22 21:35
schestowitzmaybe they didn't renew :-)Feb 22 21:35
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: maybe they are sniffing referrersFeb 22 21:35
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: yes, but many parked domains doFeb 22 21:35
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: try the 2nd tweet, that worksFeb 22 21:35
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it expands to the correct domainFeb 22 21:35
schestowitzSecond?Feb 22 21:35
FurnaceBoyyes, i tweeted the link twiceFeb 22 21:36
FurnaceBoythe first was an RTFeb 22 21:36
FurnaceBoythat now failsFeb 22 21:36
schestowitzNo, same s*Feb 22 21:36
FurnaceBoythe 2nd, twitter auto-shortenedFeb 22 21:36
FurnaceBoyand that worksFeb 22 21:36
FurnaceBoy 22 21:36
schestowitz 22 21:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Wall Street's Bailout Hustle : Rolling Stone .::. Size~: 46.1 KBFeb 22 21:36
FurnaceBoyyeah the first one worked for me though. at one point. :)Feb 22 21:36
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schestowitzDNS poisoning?Feb 22 21:37
schestowitzWell, who cares//////?Feb 22 21:37
schestowitzIs it that old article?Feb 22 21:37
schestowitzhttp:// 22 21:38
schestowitzCache.Feb 22 21:38
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the link above without /print should work for youFeb 22 21:38
schestowitz 22 21:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Goldman Hires Outside PR Firm to Help With Image Problem -- Daily Intel .::. Size~: 57.12 KBFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzAstroTurfFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzIt's "just an image problem"Feb 22 21:39
FurnaceBoylolFeb 22 21:39
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 22 21:39
schestowitzBill "just an image problem" gatesFeb 22 21:39
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: our strategy isn't wilful crime; but "mistakes were made"Feb 22 21:39
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: NixonianFeb 22 21:40
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it's not about what we do. it's about how we look. Blackwater -> XeFeb 22 21:40
schestowitzAccidental monopolistFeb 22 21:40
FurnaceBoyyusFeb 22 21:40
schestowitzWhat are you waiting for? Go call an ambulanceFeb 22 21:41
schestowitzThey got injured in an accdientFeb 22 21:41
FurnaceBoy"Critics are fond of spinning some inadvertent missteps into a picture of deliberate fraud and extortion"Feb 22 21:41
schestowitzThey fell in a big pile of cashFeb 22 21:41
_Goblinschestowitz: The question I'd ask of the Times is...if what they report is true, when why are more crimes being dealt with via fixed penalty notice on street? Surely if the plan was to get everyone on a database by way of an arrest then there would be no such thing as a FPN for theft or public order.Feb 22 21:41
schestowitzToughened their arses :-)Feb 22 21:41
schestowitz_Goblin: you're biased :0Feb 22 21:42
schestowitzYou need to believe in this system :-pFeb 22 21:42
_Goblinschestowitz: really? then why do they have the FPN system? Thers no DNA taken in those cases.Feb 22 21:42
schestowitzI really don't knowFeb 22 21:43
_Goblintheft, criminal damage, cannabis name a few can be dealt with via ticket.Feb 22 21:43
schestowitzBut choosing between the Times and another person from the system I know who to choose to listen toFeb 22 21:43
schestowitzAnd mind you, I distrust the TimesFeb 22 21:43
_Goblin:)Feb 22 21:43
schestowitzTruth is probably somewhere in betweenFeb 22 21:43
_GoblinI have no agenda and I think no system is perfect, but for the Times to report a "conspiracy" is equal to people claiming aliens in Area51....just silly.Feb 22 21:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Hmm should not make assmptions :)Feb 22 21:44
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: cash has sharp pointy edges!Feb 22 21:44
schestowitz_Goblin: not the sameFeb 22 21:44
FurnaceBoyi thought your problem was they didn't report a "conspiracy"Feb 22 21:44
schestowitzHere we talk about DNA DBs, not aliensFeb 22 21:44
_Goblinwell the conspiracy is to arrest everyone to get them on a database.Feb 22 21:45
FurnaceBoyeh?Feb 22 21:45
FurnaceBoyno, that's just a handy objective.Feb 22 21:45
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: so does the devilFeb 22 21:45
schestowitzWhatever he looks likeFeb 22 21:45
schestowitzGod has beard, diablo has hornsFeb 22 21:45
_Goblinand according to the times front line officers understand this.Feb 22 21:45
*DaemonFC ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 21:45
_Goblinlike I say absolute rubbish and so far from the truth.Feb 22 21:45
schestowitzBut nobody has seen them to verifyFeb 22 21:45
schestowitzHere comes Diablo ( DaemonFC)Feb 22 21:45
DaemonFCmmhmFeb 22 21:46
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: are you familiar with how Nixon and Kissinger arranged 5 years of secret bombings in B52s over Cambodia and Laos?Feb 22 21:46
MinceRnope, Diablo is someone else :>Feb 22 21:46
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: who in the chain knew, and did the public or Congress know?Feb 22 21:46
schestowitz[21:45] <_Goblin> well the conspiracy is to arrest everyone to get them on a database.Feb 22 21:46
DaemonFCback with his lunch (another gigantic salad)Feb 22 21:46
schestowitzMaybe just those whom they think look "bad"Feb 22 21:46
schestowitzLike minoritiesFeb 22 21:46
DaemonFCbrought back some goldfish crackers for his cat tooFeb 22 21:46
_Goblinyes...and as Ive always said there are corrupt people.  The system itself isnt.Feb 22 21:46
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: the point being, obviously systems are easily subvertibleFeb 22 21:46
DaemonFCDaemonFC loves his catFeb 22 21:47
DaemonFC:DFeb 22 21:47
_Goblinbut thats a human flaw.Feb 22 21:47
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: Nixon and Kissinger are only a spectacular exampleFeb 22 21:47
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: they weren't *supposed* to be able to carpet bomb non-involved countries, at least without telling Congress and/or the publicFeb 22 21:47
_Goblinand its up to everyone to be responsible for their own actions.Feb 22 21:47
DaemonFCDaemonFC realizes that talking about DaemonFC in the third person is a sign of a psychotic splitFeb 22 21:47
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: checks and balances were "supposed" to eixst.Feb 22 21:47
DaemonFCoh wellFeb 22 21:47
FurnaceBoyexist*Feb 22 21:47
FurnaceBoybut they were hacked. Just as Gates has hacked the law, and Bush/Cheney hacked the whole systemFeb 22 21:47
FurnaceBoythe system is exploitable, unfortunately.Feb 22 21:48
schestowitzcracked?Feb 22 21:48
_Goblinyes but in your case, it was a few in the know...according to the Times its implied as common knowledge amongst frontline staff.Feb 22 21:48
FurnaceBoyexploitedFeb 22 21:48
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: the pilots. what did they know?Feb 22 21:48
schestowitzObama was handed over the rooted systemFeb 22 21:48
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: the bomb loadersFeb 22 21:48
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: the fuellersFeb 22 21:48
schestowitzHe got partior privilegesFeb 22 21:48
schestowitzcd /home/georgeFeb 22 21:48
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: rightFeb 22 21:48
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: format, reinstallFeb 22 21:48
schestowitzchown -R obi .Feb 22 21:49
DaemonFCschestowitz, You remember the Regent talking to Londo Mollari on B5 right? Just before the fall of Centauri Prime?Feb 22 21:49
_Goblinas I say though, apparently (according to the Times) its common knowledge that the reason for arrest is only to get DNA and as I say thats a complete lie.Feb 22 21:49
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: they flew the missions without knowing it was a subversion of the system, yesFeb 22 21:49
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: that's how the hack is doneFeb 22 21:49
DaemonFCtelling Londo he can blame the Regent for anything he wantsFeb 22 21:49
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: hm.. well i read this a couple of months agoFeb 22 21:49
DaemonFCthat's how I view the Bush > Obama handoverFeb 22 21:49
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: the b52s?Feb 22 21:49
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: haven't refreshed from the articleFeb 22 21:49
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: no, the DNA articleFeb 22 21:50
*FurnaceBoy goes to have lunchFeb 22 21:50
_Goblinmy "proof" that I offer to show this article is rubbish is the increasing amount of crimes that can be dealt with on the street by way of ticket.Feb 22 21:50
schestowitzThey should call it DNWFeb 22 21:50
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: why does that disprove it?Feb 22 21:50
schestowitzNo not want!!Feb 22 21:50
FurnaceBoy_Goblin: that's like saying malware is disproved by the existence of antivirusFeb 22 21:50
_Goblinbecause no DNA is taken and if the Times is right the tickets wouldn't exist and people would just be arrested.Feb 22 21:51
_Goblinif the intention was to get DNAFeb 22 21:51
DaemonFConly instead of the Drakh, you have the World Bank, the UN, and the Federal ReserveFeb 22 21:51
DaemonFCB-)Feb 22 21:51
schestowitz"The world would have a new free format unencumbered by software patents. Viewers, video creators, free software developers, hardware makers ",1000000121,40050748,00.htmFeb 22 21:51
schestowitzfsf ftwFeb 22 21:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Top stories - ZDNet UK News .::. Size~: 113.11 KBFeb 22 21:51
schestowitzDaemonFC: you've just named 3 corrupt institutionsFeb 22 21:52
schestowitzMaybe some of the most corrupt at their levelFeb 22 21:52
schestowitzI can't tell the different between WB and IMF thoughFeb 22 21:52
schestowitz*renceFeb 22 21:53
_Goblinthe Drahk were not corrupt per say...they merely served the shadows.Feb 22 21:53
DaemonFCyeah, I'd rather see any one of them gone than a Microsoft or an RIAAFeb 22 21:53
_Goblinand the Shadows were not corrupt since they believed in Chaos.Feb 22 21:53
schestowitzWell..Feb 22 21:53
schestowitzWhere would the UN stay without gatesFeb 22 21:53
_Goblinif anything it was the Vorlons.Feb 22 21:53
schestowitzThey lodge in his houseFeb 22 21:53
DaemonFCthe fact that corrupt business flourishes is a side effect of a bigger problemFeb 22 21:53
schestowitzAnd Gates/MS work for the WB to colonise AfricaFeb 22 21:54
_GoblindamnFeb 22 21:54
_GoblinI thought we were going to have a Babylon 5 debate.Feb 22 21:54
schestowitzI have references BTWFeb 22 21:54
schestowitzzoobab: 22 21:55
DaemonFC_Goblin, I was pissed when they showed Crusade out of order on a bad time slot, made it fail so they could get out of their contract with StraczynskiFeb 22 21:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Canada, Intellectual Property, The Patent Pendulum — Part II - McCarthy Tétrault LLP - 22/02/2010, Patent .::. Size~: 58.81 KBFeb 22 21:55
schestowitzGot access, zoobabFeb 22 21:55
schestowitz?Feb 22 21:55
DaemonFCThe WB has screwed him over every step on the wayFeb 22 21:55
DaemonFCthey aren't even paying him royalties on the DVD sales of B5Feb 22 21:55
*schestowitz reads 22 21:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 22 21:56
DaemonFCWhat really frightens me is he's obviously an intelligent personFeb 22 21:56
DaemonFCso what was he doing with a Mac and AOLFeb 22 21:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @satipera lol...true...but if anyone can Satriani is the man!Feb 22 21:58
DaemonFCthe only reason I used AOL was because it was freeFeb 22 21:58
DaemonFC:PFeb 22 21:58
schestowitzwatchTroll is @ it again............... "Unfortunately, those who oppose software patents frequently, if not always, want to turn the patentability requirements as they apply to software and business methods into a single step inquiry. They want it all to ride on patentable subject matter, which is a horrible mistake."Feb 22 21:58
schestowitz 22 21:58
_GoblinDaemonFC: There is a striking similarity between Microsoft and the Vorlons...conform, it our way or not at all.....Feb 22 21:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Deciding Bilski on Patentable Subject Matter is Just Plain Wrong | | Patents & Patent Law .::. Size~: 106.08 KBFeb 22 21:58
schestowitz_Goblin: did you see the article about MS lawyers?Feb 22 21:58
DaemonFC_Goblin, Would that make the FSF the shadows?Feb 22 21:59
*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 21:59
_Goblinnot yet.Feb 22 21:59
_Goblinwill do though....Feb 22 21:59
schestowitz 22 21:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Courthouse News Service .::. Size~: 12.22 KBFeb 22 21:59
schestowitzYou should blog itFeb 22 21:59
_GoblinDaemonFC: I'd say more the Narns...Feb 22 21:59
schestowitz'Craig Bartholomew worked for Microsoft for 21 years, he says in his complaint in King County Court. He says he was fired after complaining that his supervisors had created a “dysfunctional environment that was harming Microsoft and risking certain of its programs and objectives.”'Feb 22 21:59
_GoblinDaemonFC: take on the big boys a little ill prepared.Feb 22 22:00
schestowitz'Calling Microsoft “a lawless place,” a longtime worker claims in a class action that he was fired in retaliation for reporting supervisors’ misconduct. He claims the company “routinely produces and/or condones deficient investigations, covers up alleged misconduct, mischaracterizes evidence, refuses to preserve or provide pertinent facts and data, protects the perpetrators and retaliates against victims.”'Feb 22 22:00
DaemonFCschestowitz, Did I mention I managed to rpm --nodeps all the Mesa 7.8 RPMs from Fedora 13?Feb 22 22:00
schestowitzYou haven'tFeb 22 22:00
DaemonFCand that my 3d acceleration is like WHOA now :)Feb 22 22:00
schestowitzIt's so off you use RPM nowFeb 22 22:00
schestowitzYou're a deb person and exe/dll personFeb 22 22:00
schestowitzwhat's w/ mint?Feb 22 22:00
DaemonFCin what way?Feb 22 22:00
oiaohm  << Interesting push the limit over the description of a windows problem.  Lose job.  do the same kind of lies about Linux keep job.Feb 22 22:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Why we don't trust Devil Mountain Software (and neither should you) | Between the Lines | .::. Size~: 329.99 KBFeb 22 22:00
DaemonFCgood distro in a lot of ways, schestowitz Feb 22 22:01
schestowitz 22 22:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dear Google: Please end the Web's dependence on Flash, proprietary codecs  .::. Size~: 53.69 KBFeb 22 22:01
DaemonFCit's basically trying to fix all the user interface crap that Ubuntu has baked inFeb 22 22:01
schestowitzoiaohm: pls, no zdnetFeb 22 22:01
schestowitzThere's better coverage than themFeb 22 22:01
schestowitz read commentsFeb 22 22:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: An unfortunate ending | Business - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 87.42 KBFeb 22 22:01
_GoblindaemonFC: I haven't spent much time with Mint, however my Ubuntu deployements probably resemble it in terms of software installed.Feb 22 22:01
DaemonFC_Goblin, It handles about like OpenSuse, but they've made a lot of mods to Sus's Slab menuFeb 22 22:02
DaemonFCso it actually works very wellFeb 22 22:02
DaemonFCrips out some awful GNOME stuff like Empathy and Evolution and gives you Pidgin and Thunderbird insteadFeb 22 22:02
_GoblinTo date Ive installed about 35 copies of Ubuntu....only two of those end-users have gone back to MS....Im quite proud of my achievement.Feb 22 22:03
DaemonFCmakes it easier to manage the firewallFeb 22 22:03
DaemonFChas the gstreamer bad and ugly codecs and libdvdcss2Feb 22 22:03
DaemonFCso in other words, a Windows user could pop it in and get going right awayFeb 22 22:03
_GoblinDaemonFC: The only thing I remember about Mint is that its green....should really give it a look again.Feb 22 22:03
DaemonFCnot have to learn the whole thing at onceFeb 22 22:03
DaemonFCit makes a good transition, best to give it out to people using Windows currentlyFeb 22 22:04
_Goblinyay..............>>!Feb 22 22:04
_GoblinIve hit 150k visits to my site/blog.Feb 22 22:04
_Goblinits only been running just over a year....not bad.Feb 22 22:05
DaemonFC_Goblin, It's basically fully Ubuntu compatible, but it handles like a heavily modified OpenSuseFeb 22 22:05
DaemonFCis how I'd describe it in one lineFeb 22 22:05
DaemonFCOpenSuse is a usability nightmare for one reason alone really, YaSTFeb 22 22:06
_GoblinDaemonFC: I think the last ver I tried was derived from 8.04ltsFeb 22 22:06
DaemonFCSynaptic is much nicer, APT repositories are easier to set upFeb 22 22:06
DaemonFCmuch less likely to have package conflicts in APTFeb 22 22:06
_GoblinI think....could be wrong here...that Ubuntu 9.10 now natively handles .rpm's.....Feb 22 22:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] User @_Goblin has installed GNU/Linux for almost 40 people so far. Thumbs up to him...Feb 22 22:07
DaemonFCI was using Synaptic and APT in Fedora before they had PackageKit ironed outFeb 22 22:07
DaemonFCnow I'd say PackageKit ftwFeb 22 22:07
DaemonFC_Goblin, No it doesn'tFeb 22 22:07
_Goblinschestowitz: I can name them all, remember them like my children!Feb 22 22:08
DaemonFCIt has RPM available to comply with the Linux Standards Base requirementFeb 22 22:08
DaemonFCand to let you use ALIEN to make DEBs out of themFeb 22 22:08
*jono_ ( has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 22:08
DaemonFCbut you can wreck your system easily by using RPM on UbuntuFeb 22 22:08
DaemonFCthat's not why it's thereFeb 22 22:08
*jono has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)Feb 22 22:09
DaemonFChell, even RPM > DEB usually doesn't work unless the RPM has all its dependencies self-containedFeb 22 22:09
_Goblinare you sure...Im sure I saw an update with rpm package manager feature....Feb 22 22:09
DaemonFCso grabbing an RPM for Fedora and using Alien to make a DEB usually will not workFeb 22 22:09
DaemonFCit'll make the DEB maybe, but there's still dependenciesFeb 22 22:10
_Goblinlet me just check.....Feb 22 22:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Graphic design discipline: Make Some Icon Every day #msie #design #minimalism #iconsFeb 22 22:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Flickr: Rodrigo Müller's Photostream .::. Size~: 44.35 KBFeb 22 22:10
_GoblinDaemonFC: yes it can.Feb 22 22:10
_GoblinstandbyFeb 22 22:10
schestowitz_Goblin: here's what LXer had in its feed hours ago: 22 22:11
DaemonFC_Goblin, The guy that made SMART even said the same thingFeb 22 22:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Downloads - TechRepublic .::. Size~: 57.74 KBFeb 22 22:11
_Goblinconvert and install rpm and other packagesFeb 22 22:11
_GoblinAlien allows you to convert LSB, Red Hat, Stampede and Slackware PackagesFeb 22 22:11
_Goblininto Debian packages, which can be installed with dpkg.Feb 22 22:11
DaemonFC_Goblin, Yeah, it says thatFeb 22 22:11
oiaohmThe exception is proper built LSB packages.Feb 22 22:11
_GoblinAlien is present...Feb 22 22:11
_Goblinlet me try an rpm.Feb 22 22:11
oiaohmBut there are not that many.Feb 22 22:11
schestowitzzong! lxer takeover /saRCASM!11Feb 22 22:11
DaemonFCnow actually USE it to convert something and get back with me on how you installed that thingFeb 22 22:11
DaemonFCI don't mean something that has no dependenciesFeb 22 22:11
oiaohmopenoffice rpms works coverted to deb ok and DaemonFCFeb 22 22:12
DaemonFCAlien libdvdcss RPM to DEB will likely workFeb 22 22:12
_GoblinDaemonFC: theres a challenge! and an article!Feb 22 22:12
oiaohmIe they have interdependancies.Feb 22 22:12
DaemonFCbecause it has no external dependenciesFeb 22 22:12
DaemonFCDEB is a non-standard if you want to go by LSBFeb 22 22:13
DaemonFCsays nothing about DEB, Dpkg, etc.Feb 22 22:13
oiaohmRead the standard again.Feb 22 22:13
schestowitz 22 22:13
oiaohmParticularly the section on packaging.Feb 22 22:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Confessions of an Ubuntu Fanboy - Starry Hope .::. Size~: 39.44 KBFeb 22 22:13
schestowitz[22:08] <_Goblin> schestowitz: I can name them all, remember them like my children!Feb 22 22:13
schestowitzAll My Suns [sic]Feb 22 22:13
_GoblinlolFeb 22 22:14
oiaohmPrefered format is RPM.  DEB is a secondary.  Particularly more questionable since rpm5 has duel rpm/deb supoort. DaemonFCFeb 22 22:15
_GoblinRight think Im going to watch Zero-1 in a minute....Feb 22 22:16
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: are you familiar with Netronome's processors? IXP28xxFeb 22 22:17
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: + NFP-32xxFeb 22 22:17
oiaohmOk is the IXP28xx the same a the intel IXP28xxFeb 22 22:19
FurnaceBoyNFP is the later series. IXP28 is 2002+Feb 22 22:19
FurnaceBoythere are some articles on http://linuxdevices.comFeb 22 22:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: All About Linux-powered Devices - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 63.49 KBFeb 22 22:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] I hate it when Deja-Vu means a couple of good friends gets apart *again*.Feb 22 22:20
oiaohm 22 22:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NFP-32xx vs IXP28XX .::. Size~: 3.51 KBFeb 22 22:20
oiaohmNow I see the spec sheet I can under stand why I had very little todo with the IXP28xxFeb 22 22:21
oiaohmWho is going to be paying for rambus unless you really have to.Feb 22 22:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @schestowitz Take my hat off too Goblin for doing that. We all find it diffficult moving to something new.Feb 22 22:22
schestowitzJust got some nice mail from China......Feb 22 22:26
schestowitz"Michael Moore’s Documentary Film “Capitalism: A Love Story” the disastrous impact of corporate dominance on the everyday lives of Americans (and by default, the rest of the world)."Feb 22 22:26
schestowitz"“A well-made and informative expose of the tragic consequences of unregulated capitalism regarding the inequitable distribution of Power, Money, and Resources.”"Feb 22 22:26
schestowitz"Plutonomy, perhaps like me, you've not heard much about this term, except in the occasional poorly defined rant. Well it's a word we should all learn more about -- since it's one of the new "code words" the uber-rich plutotarians use to maintain their "high stations" in life."Feb 22 22:26
schestowitz"Feb 22 22:26
schestowitzPlutonomies are likely to grow in the future, fed by capitalist-friendly governments, more technology-driven productivity and globalization.Feb 22 22:26
schestowitz Feb 22 22:26
schestowitzIn a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act -- George OrwellFeb 22 22:26
schestowitz"Feb 22 22:26
schestowitz"The film centers on the financial crisis of 2007–2010  and the recovery stimulus, while putting forward an indictment of the current economic order in the United States and capitalism in general. The film then features the internal Citigroup memo happily declaring the United States a "plutonomy" (a society "where economic growth is powered by and largely consumed by the wealthy few), with the top 1% of the population controlling Feb 22 22:27
schestowitzmore financial wealth than the bottom 95% combined. "Feb 22 22:27
schestowitzWow!Feb 22 22:27
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Vudu is dead (wait, who the hell is Vudu) #walmart #douchebagsFeb 22 22:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Wal-Mart buying Vudu streaming movie service? -- Engadget .::. Size~: 133.6 KBFeb 22 22:27
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: is that news to you?Feb 22 22:27
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: i saw that memo a while backFeb 22 22:27
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: yuo might like this btw 22 22:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bitch Ph.D. .::. Size~: 32.33 KBFeb 22 22:28
schestowitz"Elizabeth Warren, the head of the U.S. Congressional Oversight Committee, the government agency serving as a "watchdog" for Congress' wrong-doing, while on camera, when asked where is the $700 billion bailout money which Congress gave to the big banks and Wall Street investment companies, responds with “I don’t know”!"Feb 22 22:28
schestowitzI like WarenFeb 22 22:28
schestowitzShe rejected the Clinton invitation IIRCFeb 22 22:28
schestowitzShe wanted nothing to do with the corrupt world of politicsFeb 22 22:28
Diablo-D3waitFeb 22 22:28
Diablo-D3wasnt warren on the daily show?Feb 22 22:28
schestowitz 22 22:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Conversations with History: Elizabeth Warren .::. Size~: 149.04 KBFeb 22 22:28
schestowitzSame one?Feb 22 22:29
Diablo-D3 22 22:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Video: Elizabeth Warren Pt. 1 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central .::. Size~: 34.89 KBFeb 22 22:29
oiaohm  HMMFeb 22 22:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: End of Service Life Status for OpenSolaris Operating System   .::. Size~: 21.08 KBFeb 22 22:29
Diablo-D3watch thatFeb 22 22:30
schestowitz"The Second Bill of Rights was a proposal made by United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt during his State of the Union Address on January 11, 1944 to suggest that the nation had come to recognize, and should now implement, a second bill of rights."Feb 22 22:30
Diablo-D3oiaohm: no, they're no longer shipping OS-based distrosFeb 22 22:30
schestowitz"Roosevelt did not argue for any change to the United States Constitution; he argued that the second bill of rights was to be implemented politically, not by federal judges. Roosevelt's stated justification was that the "political rights" guaranteed by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights had "proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.""Feb 22 22:30
Diablo-D3oiaohm: solaris from now on is the official sun release of opensolarisFeb 22 22:30
schestowitzDiablo-D3: will watchFeb 22 22:30
schestowitzOh f***Feb 22 22:30
Diablo-D3schestowitz: its _really_ good.Feb 22 22:30
schestowitzUS onlyFeb 22 22:31
Diablo-D3schestowitz: tunnelFeb 22 22:31
Diablo-D3seriouslyFeb 22 22:31
schestowitzI ought to have rememberedFeb 22 22:31
DaemonFCschestowitz, FDR is the reason for the 22nd AmendmentFeb 22 22:31
Diablo-D3oiaohm: solaris is doing what java didFeb 22 22:31
DaemonFC"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shFeb 22 22:31
DaemonFCall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term."Feb 22 22:31
DaemonFC:)Feb 22 22:31
Diablo-D3oiaohm: theres going to be an official sun distro, and then an outside group is going to handle it (java->openjdk)Feb 22 22:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] 4 trillion degree Celsius Quark-gluon plasma created !scienceFeb 22 22:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: In Brookhaven Collider, Briefly Breaking a Law of Nature - .::. Size~: 69.1 KBFeb 22 22:32
schestowitzIs this it? 22 22:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- "We Have A Real Problem Coming..." Elizabeth Warren- head of the Congressional Oversight Panel .::. Size~: 126.4 KBFeb 22 22:32
oiaohmThe hmm is the end of  "End of SS-EOSL"  That open solarias has never traditionally need since it never got phone support in the first place.Feb 22 22:32
Diablo-D3schestowitz: noFeb 22 22:32
schestowitz"Feb 22 22:33
schestowitzRoosevelt's remedy was to create an "economic bill of rights" which would guarantee:Feb 22 22:33
schestowitz Feb 22 22:33
schestowitz1.   A job with a living wageFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz2.   Freedom from unfair competition and monopoliesFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz3.   A homeFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz4.   Medical careFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz5.   EducationFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz6.   RecreationFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz Feb 22 22:33
schestowitzRoosevelt stated that having these rights would guarantee American security, and that America's place in the world depended upon how far these and similar rights had been carried into practice. Feb 22 22:33
schestowitz"Feb 22 22:33
DaemonFCschestowitz, The idea was we'd get a disctator eventually if there was no term limit, kind of a Hugo Chavez typeFeb 22 22:33
Diablo-D3and goddamned roosevelt had huge fucking ballsFeb 22 22:33
schestowitz"The sooner we begin, the sooner we can right this ship, cease the pointless bickering, and chart our course out of this Hell and toward the progressive promised land."Feb 22 22:33
DaemonFCthey still call Chavez the President but he's never really out of officeFeb 22 22:33
DaemonFCthe President's signature on the process of ratification of an amendment to the US Constitution is a formalityFeb 22 22:35
DaemonFCbecause it takes a 2/3rds majority to pass one in Congress anywayFeb 22 22:35
FurnaceBoyso, in today's america, roosevelt's score is 0/0Feb 22 22:35
Diablo-D3oiaohm: open solaris never really existedFeb 22 22:35
FurnaceBoywell, except maybe for (6) which is overdevelopedFeb 22 22:35
Diablo-D3it was just the open distro of solaris, which solaris only recently started shipping open solaris to begin withFeb 22 22:35
DaemonFCon a state level, methods to ratify the state constitution vary wildlyFeb 22 22:36
DaemonFCIndiana's actually protects civil liberties of minorities from majorities better than California's, for exampleFeb 22 22:37
DaemonFCcause there's no way to force something to a vote by petition hereFeb 22 22:37
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: maybe number (7) was "bombing the c* out of countries with oil"Feb 22 22:38
DaemonFCOne year pot is legal in California, the next year it's not. One year, gay couples can get married, the next year they can't.Feb 22 22:38
DaemonFCit's more of a battle between voters and the legislature out thereFeb 22 22:39
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Ike's fearFeb 22 22:39
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: another loopholeFeb 22 22:39
DaemonFCAnd I fear that in doing so, California might technically have voided their statehoodFeb 22 22:39
schestowitzI've been sent some citigroup docsFeb 22 22:39
DaemonFCnobody has called them on thisFeb 22 22:39
schestowitzThis is digusting thoughFeb 22 22:39
schestowitzThey bring corrupt companies back to lifeFeb 22 22:39
schestowitzCause they run the systemFeb 22 22:39
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: you were expecting "The Sound of Music" ?Feb 22 22:40
DaemonFCthe US Constitution says that a state government has to be a "Republic", not a DemocracyFeb 22 22:40
DaemonFCso California really doesn't have a Republican form of government as long as voters are allowed to change the constitution directly :)Feb 22 22:40
DaemonFCI strongly oppose ballot measures of any kind.Feb 22 22:41
DaemonFCThis is why we have representatives, not to turn around and ask us if it's OK and maybe manipulate the wording on the ballot to trick people to say yesFeb 22 22:42
*Eruaran has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 22 22:42
DaemonFCit's what they do out in California thoughFeb 22 22:42
DaemonFCIn Indiana, the legislature has to put something on the ballot, a petition can't do thatFeb 22 22:43
DaemonFCso it's a little betterFeb 22 22:43
sebsebsebGot a Swedish 19 year old  that wants a better OS, so it seems she will go Mandriva not UbuntuFeb 22 22:43
sebsebsebshe doesn't even use Facebook or Twitter so those 10.04 social features will be uselessFeb 22 22:44
Diablo-D3oiaohm: NOWFeb 22 22:44
DaemonFCThe interesting case was when in 2008, I got to vote to impeach a judgeFeb 22 22:44
DaemonFCnow that was coolFeb 22 22:44
Diablo-D3nooooooOOoOOOOOooOOooOooOOooOooOOooowFeb 22 22:44
Diablo-D3if oracle destroys solarisFeb 22 22:44
Diablo-D3and burns the sourceFeb 22 22:44
Diablo-D3and everything that had to do with itFeb 22 22:44
DaemonFCthat would be niceFeb 22 22:45
Diablo-D3then they did a good thingFeb 22 22:45
DaemonFCgets rid of another piece of fauxpen sourceFeb 22 22:45
Diablo-D3solaris is an absolute horrid pile of shitFeb 22 22:46
DaemonFCthank youFeb 22 22:46
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Chinese media reports worker poisoning at #Apple touchscreen maker #Wintek #douchebagsFeb 22 22:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Chinese media reports worker poisoning at Apple touchscreen maker Wintek Boing Boing .::. Size~: 37.12 KBFeb 22 22:47
oiaohmSome of the ideas developed in solaris have been good.   But long history of internal development and the messes that causes does detract away from it usabblity Diablo-D3Feb 22 22:49
FurnaceBoyDiablo-D3: hm, i'm on your Friendfeed and i don't see that.. where did you link it?Feb 22 22:49
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: zfs still has no peerFeb 22 22:49
oiaohmzones tech as well.  openvz is getting close but is not there yet.  KMS that linux only recently got Solaris had a form of it for years.   Even if solaris dies it still worth while to pick over for tech.Feb 22 22:51
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: yes I use zonesFeb 22 22:51
oiaohmBiggest problem with solaris is the old historic Unix problem.  We must build all our own tools.Feb 22 22:52
FurnaceBoyDiablo-D3: got a url for that China issue?Feb 22 22:52
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: GNUFeb 22 22:52
oiaohmMost unix's avoided shipping with GNU tools.Feb 22 22:52
oiaohmAt all costs.Feb 22 22:52
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: SOlaris 10 ships with many GNU tools including gccFeb 22 22:52
oiaohmThat is only a recent change.  FurnaceBoyFeb 22 22:53
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: recent as in at least 4 yrs :)Feb 22 22:53
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: and I am talking Sol 10, not OpenSol (which I don't use)Feb 22 22:53
oiaohmSolaris still ships with it own complier as well.  FurnaceBoyFeb 22 22:53
FurnaceBoySOl 8 was when that started to open up, with a F/OSS CompanianFeb 22 22:54
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: actually, no, it doesn't.Feb 22 22:54
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: that's in Sun Studio - separate downloadFeb 22 22:54
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: but gcc is bundledFeb 22 22:54
FurnaceBoyhas been for half a decade :)Feb 22 22:54
FurnaceBoyCompanion*Feb 22 22:54
oiaohmSo they got saner in the last 4.Feb 22 22:56
FurnaceBoyyeahFeb 22 22:56
FurnaceBoybut like i say, Solaris 8 started to crack in terms of encouraging F/OSS 3rd partyFeb 22 22:56
oiaohmStill running there own shell or are they accross to bash.Feb 22 22:56
FurnaceBoywhich was just acknowledging common practice (SFW and Blastwave)Feb 22 22:56
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: they default to Bourne, but bash is bundled, /bin/bashFeb 22 22:56
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: root shell can bashFeb 22 22:57
FurnaceBoybe^Feb 22 22:57
oiaohmSo still defaulting to old unix BourneFeb 22 22:59
FurnaceBoyyes, for reasonably obvious reasons :)Feb 22 22:59
FurnaceBoygiven what we know of their customer base and conservative change managementFeb 22 22:59
FurnaceBoyif you want cutting edge you go OpenSolFeb 22 23:00
FurnaceBoyeven zfs in Sol 10 is a few releases behind in Sol 10Feb 22 23:00
FurnaceBoyoupsFeb 22 23:00
FurnaceBoys/in Sol 10$/OpenSol/Feb 22 23:00
MinceR"if i want cutting edge, i'll buy a sword. if i want bleeding edge, i'll use it."Feb 22 23:00
oiaohmThe conservative change management is why it will take ages to undo all the internal development history.Feb 22 23:00
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: yeah it's a burden, but like you say, OpenSol will cherry pick from itFeb 22 23:01
FurnaceBoymaturity counts for something in core infraFeb 22 23:01
oiaohmI wish it did more.Feb 22 23:02
*gargoyle-grin has quit (Quit: Leaving.)Feb 22 23:02
oiaohmIf it did windows would not be in as many critical roles.Feb 22 23:02
oiaohmWindows has never been mature.Feb 22 23:02
FurnaceBoywindows in critical role can only be explained by ignorance, undue influence, and/or inertiaFeb 22 23:03
FurnaceBoyit cannot happen with a realistic survey of what humankind has created ;-)Feb 22 23:03
FurnaceBoyit's good for playing solitaireFeb 22 23:04
FurnaceBoyapparentlyFeb 22 23:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Having looked again I am rethinkimgFeb 22 23:04
FurnaceBoybut even then.. why waste money on the licenseFeb 22 23:04
DaemonFChmm, I just had the pastor of some church call me. (I never pick up if I don't recognize the number)Feb 22 23:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] No sorry it is all local cooking. Happy to have my errors explainedFeb 22 23:07
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: rejoin the flock, renounce your evil waysFeb 22 23:07
*DaemonFC brutally murders FurnaceBoy and then asks God for forgivenessFeb 22 23:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Yes i am happy with that, eye of the opinion formerFeb 22 23:09
DaemonFC"You can't arrest me, I asked God for forgiveness! Separation of church and state! This is a matter of my personal faith!"Feb 22 23:09
oiaohm  Boy one of the best bits of bull crap FUD I have ever read.Feb 22 23:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Risks in Google killing Adobe Flash | Open Source | .::. Size~: 103.95 KBFeb 22 23:09
DaemonFCChristian: "I don't believe in separation of church and state!" Me: "How's that tax-free status working out for you?"Feb 22 23:10
oiaohmHmm that is what lot of Christians forget.   Separation between church and state.Feb 22 23:13
oiaohmMeans the church is not a tax collector.Feb 22 23:13
oiaohmMind you the flat tax rate of old of 10 percent was not too bad.Feb 22 23:13
FurnaceBoyyeah but look at the crap you had to put up with.Feb 22 23:14
FurnaceBoyhonestly I thank the FrenchFeb 22 23:14
oiaohmUntil you wake up its 10 percent per week.Feb 22 23:14
oiaohmNot 10 percent per year.Feb 22 23:15
FurnaceBoyVISA! Feb 22 23:15
FurnaceBoyfor the bankrupt rock star in youFeb 22 23:15
*FurnaceBoy mumbles incoherentlyFeb 22 23:15
FurnaceBoyDiablo-D3: if you're there... not seeing the China worker poisoning link in your 'feed, what's the URL?Feb 22 23:16
DaemonFC 22 23:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Blacks With No Soul .::. Size~: 111.64 KBFeb 22 23:16
sebsebseb 22 23:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu One Music Store Sneak Peek | blog .::. Size~: 152.09 KBFeb 22 23:18
*DaemonFC smacks jono_ with some James Brown MP3sFeb 22 23:21
DaemonFC:PFeb 22 23:21
DaemonFC7digital! Of course!Feb 22 23:21
DaemonFCSo Americans can pay 30% more than AmazonFeb 22 23:22
DaemonFCyay!!!! Feb 22 23:22
DaemonFCthis is craptacular, in fact, it might be the most craptacular thing Ubuntu has ever doneFeb 22 23:22
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Well the Amazon  Music Store apparantly only works in USA or Canada, or something like thatFeb 22 23:22
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well whatever they use so what, I am not buying stuff from itFeb 22 23:23
DaemonFCdoesn't mean I want to get an album that's $7.99 on Amazon for $11.99 on tdigitalFeb 22 23:23
sebsebsebDaemonFC: If I am going to buy music I would much rather buy pshyical albumsFeb 22 23:23
DaemonFCWell, this is going into a bloggingFeb 22 23:24
sebsebsebDaemonFC: maybe a bit bad, since  loads of  Ubuntu users are from USAFeb 22 23:24
DaemonFCyeah, it's a jokeFeb 22 23:24
DaemonFCand some of the shit on 7digital is only in AAC or WMAFeb 22 23:24
DaemonFCNow what?Feb 22 23:24
DaemonFCis Ubuntu encouraging you to buy that too?Feb 22 23:24
sebsebsebDaemonFC: yep 10.04 sucks reallyFeb 22 23:24
sebsebsebDaemonFC: or so it seems, from what I know about itFeb 22 23:25
sebsebsebDaemonFC: alpha 3 will be interestingFeb 22 23:25
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I am not expecting to be impressed, and I probably won't beFeb 22 23:25
sebsebsebwell this ThursdayFeb 22 23:25
DaemonFCthey're doing all kinds of stupid shitFeb 22 23:25
sebsebsebaltough if I vm'd a daily build it would probably be similar to alpha 3Feb 22 23:26
oiaohmsebsebseb: take a stable kernel back port whole stack of proto bits in it.  How can you say keep up with jones at the price of your own users.Feb 22 23:26
sebsebseboiaohm: uh I don't understandFeb 22 23:26
oiaohmUpcomming Ubuntu.Feb 22 23:27
oiaohmThey have the 2.6.32 that is going to be the year and a bit maintained kernel.   Ok that should have been dependanble.Feb 22 23:27
oiaohmBut then they have gone and pulled DRM from 2.6.33 back into along with other bits.Feb 22 23:27
sebsebseboiaohm: yes  they might have to support a year on there own, or whatever someone told me before here on IRCFeb 22 23:27
sebsebseboiaohm: DRM in Linux kernel? Digital Rights Management?Feb 22 23:28
oiaohmDirect Rendering Management.Feb 22 23:28
sebsebsebDaemonFC: anyway if you look at popey's commentFeb 22 23:28
sebsebsebDaemonFC: it seems so fake to meFeb 22 23:28
oiaohmWhat X11 server uses.  sebsebsebFeb 22 23:28
DaemonFCask jono_, he'll tell you why 30-40% more expensive for Americans is a "feature"Feb 22 23:28
DaemonFC:DFeb 22 23:28
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I guess like jono_  both of them have to pretend Ubuntu is so great,  since they are community members, oh and in that case of jono_ he works for CanonicalFeb 22 23:29
sebsebseb_Goblin: you here? don't miss the above stuff :)Feb 22 23:29
oiaohmReally the best thing would have been.   Release 2.6.32 as unchanged as able.Feb 22 23:29
sebsebsebDaemonFC: maybe they could have made two deals?   that one and amazon?  or  at least had amazon available for the Americans problem solved?Feb 22 23:29
oiaohmAnd 2.6.33 for people wanting the newer direct rendering management.Feb 22 23:30
sebsebseboiaohm: I don't know what that isFeb 22 23:30
oiaohmThinkign work on direct rendering management most likely will only complete 2.6.34 or 2.6.35Feb 22 23:30
DaemonFCthey aren't building 2.6.33 kernels for F12 yetFeb 22 23:30
DaemonFCI'll install it when they are upFeb 22 23:31
oiaohm  I keep on get DRM wrong Direct rendering managerFeb 22 23:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DRI Wiki - DRM .::. Size~: 23.62 KBFeb 22 23:31
DaemonFCthe only thing I forced in was the F13 development packages for MesaFeb 22 23:31
DaemonFCI don't feel like doing that for anything I don't needFeb 22 23:32
oiaohmsebsebseb: Now a OS with a unstable video stack how much is it worth.Feb 22 23:32
DaemonFCMesa 7.8 is performing way better than 7.7Feb 22 23:32
DaemonFCand who wants slow video rendering? :)Feb 22 23:32
DaemonFCI can wait for newer kernelsFeb 22 23:33
oiaohmLike open source nvidia drivers are still changing there Direct rendering managers interface and there user space code with it.Feb 22 23:33
sebsebsebDaemonFC:  oiaohm  jono_ 22 23:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Advogato: Blog for mbanck .::. Size~: 8.39 KBFeb 22 23:34
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: ....speaking of conservative change management :)Feb 22 23:34
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: 22 23:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / Glenn Greenwald: The NYT speaks on its myst ... .::. Size~: 6.83 KBFeb 22 23:35
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: 'Shipley's answer strongly suggests that Dadkhah did not submit her Op-Ed unsolicited, but rather, the NYT purposely sought out an Op-Ed to urge more civilians deaths in Afghanistan'Feb 22 23:36
oiaohmYep LGPL 2.1 or later is the GTK licence.Feb 22 23:36
FurnaceBoythe paper that syndicates Mr Friedman - why is anyone surprised. it was always gung-ho off to war we goFeb 22 23:37
oiaohmNow if you want to merge something into a project you have t licence as per their rules.Feb 22 23:37
oiaohmIts not what any one else says.Feb 22 23:37
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: 'Dadkhah's employer -- Booz Allen -- has more overlapping ties with the Pentagon than virtually any other corporation on the planet.  The very idea that Dadkhah's employment with a company that has its hooks in virtually every aspect of war policy need not have been disclosed, when she's advocating greater use of air power, is absurd on its face'Feb 22 23:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @ggreenwald #NYT speaks on mystery Kill-More-Civilians OpEd writer #death industry selling idea of more #war as op-edFeb 22 23:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Glenn Greenwald - .::. Size~: 59.17 KBFeb 22 23:40
*bruce89 (~bruce89@ has joined #boycottnovellFeb 22 23:41
sebsebsebbruce89: hiFeb 22 23:48
sebsebsebbruce89: here to comment about the music store?Feb 22 23:48
bruce89not necessarily, maybe I'm here to talk about astrophotographyFeb 22 23:49
sebsebsebwell DaemonFC    bruce89 made an interesting point when it comes to the music store else whereFeb 22 23:49
bruce89ugh, I'm not going to be led into thisFeb 22 23:50
sebsebsebbruce89: it's fineFeb 22 23:50
bruce89I'll say something if I want to thank youFeb 22 23:50
sebsebsebbruce89: people tend to say pretty much whatever they want in hereFeb 22 23:50
sebsebsebbruce89: anyway not many music stores provide free formats,  however would be good if they didFeb 22 23:51
FurnaceBoybruce89: what's new in astrophotography? this guy kicks ass: 22 23:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Hubble Heritage Gallery of Images .::. Size~: 30.45 KBFeb 22 23:53
bruce89furnaceboy: puts my blurred and dodgy shot of M42 into shame certainlyFeb 22 23:55
FurnaceBoybruce89: there was mention (/. I think) of a guy doing some amazing backyard workFeb 22 23:55
FurnaceBoyrecentlyFeb 22 23:55
bruce89it certainly can be done, but probably not from the suburbs of GlasgowFeb 22 23:56
FurnaceBoyhehFeb 22 23:56
FurnaceBoydid you see the recent identification of the 'darkest place' in UK ?Feb 22 23:56
FurnaceBoya famous park, where if the rain ever stops, you get extremely low light pollutionFeb 22 23:56
bruce89sounds like the whole of ScotlandFeb 22 23:57
FurnaceBoythere was an article, in Times Online I think... lemme see if I can pull it upFeb 22 23:57
FurnaceBoythat was easy. first hit. 22 23:58
bruce89oh yes, Galloway, I saw it on the newsFeb 22 23:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Bullpen office layouts suck. Unlike other more chatty professions programmers need quiet. They aren't paid to study with the TV on.Feb 22 23:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Galloway Forest Park: one of the darkest places on the planet - Times Online  .::. Size~: 106.5 KBFeb 22 23:58
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I still get 404s on their links. sigh.Feb 22 23:58
*DaemonFC smacks jono_ with a 192k WMA file from 7digitalFeb 22 23:58
DaemonFC:)Feb 22 23:58
jono_lolFeb 22 23:58
*bruce89 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 22 23:59
DaemonFCWMAbuntuFeb 22 23:59
DaemonFCcompatible with a Windows 98 box near youFeb 22 23:59

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