| Chips_B_Malroy | as in cut them some extra slack | Mar 22 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: You remember those Cheese and Chong movies | Mar 22 00:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | There are quite a few store signs in some parts of the greater LA area that are only in Spanish | Mar 22 00:00 |
| DaemonFC | where if the illegal Mexicans needed a ride back to Mexico they just turned themselves in | Mar 22 00:01 |
| DaemonFC | then sneak back in later | Mar 22 00:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Xbox 360 Dies Without a “Coffin” and #Microsoft ’s Other Hardware Endeavours Seemingly a Dead End http://ur1.ca/qzog | Mar 22 00:01 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Xbox 360 Dies Without a “Coffin” and Microsofts Other Hardware Endeavours Seemingly a Dead End | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.28 KB | Mar 22 00:01 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy quted ^^ | Mar 22 00:01 |
| oiaohm | http://boycottnovell.com/2010/03/21/great-microsoft-exodus/ << schestowitz I see this as a card play. Split internet side of china off into a independant company then do no more filtering in china move get banned from china then pick on google for not doing it. | Mar 22 00:01 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Vice President Quits in China, Others Do Too | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.5 KB | Mar 22 00:01 |
| DaemonFC | The health care bill is 1,440 pages long | Mar 22 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | wonder how many words | Mar 22 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's more pages long than War and Peace | Mar 22 00:03 |
| DaemonFC | I bet word-wise it's about 1,000 times longer than the US Constitution | Mar 22 00:04 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boycott Novell now has some Hunganrian content: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Magyar | Mar 22 00:04 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Magyar - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 14.44 KB | Mar 22 00:04 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: How do you like that? | Mar 22 00:04 |
| DaemonFC | Pass the monster and then follow up with a diff patch :) | Mar 22 00:04 |
| DaemonFC | I bet by that point they'll get some Republican votes | Mar 22 00:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, I seen a comment at mini's that sugguested that the rash of management leaving Redmond, might have something to do with Bill Gates coming back to replace Ballmer. It said that the ones leaving were the loyal ones to Gates, and Ballmer wanted to get rid of them before Gates thought about coming back. How true, don't know. | Mar 22 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Cover mask Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Why shutdown full divistions if you just wanted to get rid of staff. | Mar 22 00:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I guess the products of those divisions were not going be profitable | Mar 22 00:09 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 22 00:09 |
| oiaohm | And when you kill divisions you normally have left over staff you have to do something with. | Mar 22 00:10 |
| oiaohm | Either fire or create new divisions that are going to work. | Mar 22 00:10 |
| oiaohm | There are a lot of MS bosters who are trying to come up for any reason to explain away what is going on. | Mar 22 00:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or put more people into exsisting divisions to speed up products | Mar 22 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Normally does not work with people who have been heads of divisions. | Mar 22 00:11 |
| oiaohm | they normally don't go back to being a person taking orders too well. | Mar 22 00:11 |
| oiaohm | Also if you follow lot of the upper staff leaving in a short time the division they were leading is no more. | Mar 22 00:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but not all of these are divisions being shut down, some of the departures are differnet | Mar 22 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the departures are pre death of divisions. | Mar 22 00:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Mar 22 00:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS continues to cut | Mar 22 00:13 |
| oiaohm | What is normal division leads normally see the axe coming. | Mar 22 00:13 |
| oiaohm | Then there have been some stragitic transfers of staff. | Mar 22 00:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | expecting that MS cannot hide or sin next quarters results like they did this one | Mar 22 00:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | \*spin | Mar 22 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Once you take away staff gone from death of divisions | Mar 22 00:15 |
| oiaohm | And tatical transfers | Mar 22 00:15 |
| oiaohm | There is really not that many staff leaving MS. | Mar 22 00:15 |
| oiaohm | So the argument to get rid of staff who like bill gates really does not add up. | Mar 22 00:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I see your point, but not so sure it did not have any merit | Mar 22 00:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | although, myself, I do not see a parting of the ways between Ballmer and Gates either | Mar 22 00:17 |
| oiaohm | If it had merit you would expect some staff in working divisions to be no more as well. | Mar 22 00:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | to me, Ballmer and Gates are sort of like Model T's. the parts are interchangable. | Mar 22 00:18 |
| oiaohm | and not having a tatical transfer lined up. | Mar 22 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Basically the staff gone don't match statement. | Mar 22 00:18 |
| oiaohm | The statement is a good way to try to mask over why they have had to dispose of so many staff | Mar 22 00:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Oiaohm> we will see, this next quarter could be a big one for Ballmer keeping his job. | Mar 22 00:19 |
| oiaohm | I have also see those kinds of statements used to block internal revolts from fear of been cut next. | Mar 22 00:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | now that sound more possilbe | Mar 22 00:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | *possible | Mar 22 00:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sorry, I should learn not to write on a laptop keyboard, with all my typo's | Mar 22 00:21 |
| oiaohm | It has to be getting hard in some areas not to know staff have gone. | Mar 22 00:21 |
| oiaohm | No problem Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 00:21 |
| oiaohm | Me no worse on a full size keyboard at times. | Mar 22 00:21 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: no,, billg won't come back | Mar 22 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is a wreck | Mar 22 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Gates found other monopolies | Mar 22 00:22 |
| schestowitz | He also become a front with many orgs like UN | Mar 22 00:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, I like Ballmer actually, rather I prefer him to Gates to run MS | Mar 22 00:23 |
| oiaohm | Also the talk about Gates coming back is also another way of controling fear. | Mar 22 00:23 |
| oiaohm | In gates rule of Ms very few staff got dismissed. | Mar 22 00:23 |
| oiaohm | I see the statement as matching the requirement for fear control. | Mar 22 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Gates had a simple run. | Mar 22 00:24 |
| oiaohm | In his time OEM were loyal. | Mar 22 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Ballmer is having to fight to keep OEMS loyal | Mar 22 00:25 |
| oiaohm | And fighting to keep OEM's cuts down on free cash. | Mar 22 00:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> my impression was this was probably a legit comment from an actual MS employee. But you might be right, that employees have fear, and some would think that Gates coming back would make MS a stronger company, with less chance of them being laidoff. | Mar 22 00:26 |
| oiaohm | legit comment does not mean its not fear driven and is the base of hope. | Mar 22 00:29 |
| oiaohm | If they lose hope fear wins. | Mar 22 00:29 |
| oiaohm | The issue now with that statement if Ballmer does not turn it around he could have a major revolt on his hands. | Mar 22 00:30 |
| oiaohm | And there is nothing worse than programmers pissed off with you for a software company. | Mar 22 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Ok your own programmers pissed off with you. | Mar 22 00:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | This recession has probably started an acceleration of jobs to be outsourced to India and China by Microsoft | Mar 22 00:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so its doubtful that the jobs will ever come back at MS | Mar 22 00:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Oiaohm> yes, the pissed off programmers at M$ could do something real nasty, like turn out Vi$ta3 | Mar 22 00:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but its shareholders he has to worry about | Mar 22 00:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and Bill, Paul Allen | Mar 22 00:35 |
| oiaohm | Remember lot of programmers have seen there jobs at MS out sourced to India | Mar 22 00:35 |
| oiaohm | It is only a matter of time. | Mar 22 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Before something has to give. | Mar 22 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Lets just say you just saw a pre shock to a up coming earthquake at ms. | Mar 22 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Problem is we just don't know what section is going to wear the earthquake | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz |  | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | [00:23] <Chips_B_Malroy> Roy, I like Ballmer actually, rather I prefer him to Gates to run MS | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | gates spent billions on OPR | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | *PR | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | At least hundreds of millions | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer doesn't have that | Mar 22 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Which is ironic because Ballmer is married to Miss W-E and Gates is just groomed by Pam Edstrom, which isn't family | Mar 22 00:38 |
| schestowitz | BN is too slow, still | Mar 22 00:38 |
| schestowitz | load average: 6.08, 3.73, 3.89 | Mar 22 00:38 |
| schestowitz | Even dedicated is overloaded like this on a Sunday | Mar 22 00:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I would expect the only real growth in employee numbers at MS to be in India and China. Another 20,000 to be gone at Redmond in the next few years is very possible, or more | Mar 22 00:39 |
| schestowitz | We need the proxy back | Mar 22 00:39 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: It's not headcount | Mar 22 00:39 |
| schestowitz | They also offshore their legal team | Mar 22 00:39 |
| schestowitz | It's how much they invest in staff | Mar 22 00:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ballmer has 16 billion personal wealth last figure I have seen | Mar 22 00:40 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, Opera's torrent client has gotten better | Mar 22 00:40 |
| _Goblin | ahhhh | Mar 22 00:40 |
| _Goblin | torrent.... | Mar 22 00:40 |
| _Goblin | you must be a pirate ;) | Mar 22 00:40 |
| DaemonFC | yes, that's why I am trying out one that has no blocklist support | Mar 22 00:40 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 00:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | naw he is just getting a linux download | Mar 22 00:40 |
| _Goblin | But you are probably running Peer Guardian ;) | Mar 22 00:41 |
| DaemonFC | no | Mar 22 00:41 |
| _Goblin | Chips_B_Malroy: I was being sarcastic....everytime torrent is mentioned someone always says pirate. | Mar 22 00:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Truly, I am sorry I ever gave M$ any money. | Mar 22 00:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | It might almost be worst to have fed the beast than to pirate it | Mar 22 00:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | look at what they have do to windows users | Mar 22 00:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | windows users=malware users | Mar 22 00:44 |
| _Goblin | "get em sort of addicted, we'll make a return later..." | Mar 22 00:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Documentation viewing, opportunistic style - http://is.gd/aSaJF #opportunisticdevelopers #ubuntu | Mar 22 00:44 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: DocView Preview « jfdm's blog .::. Size~: 15.51 KB | Mar 22 00:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oh please, cleam my windows | Mar 22 00:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | *clean | Mar 22 00:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Brute Force and Sheer Power of Microsoft Windows http://ur1.ca/r001 #botnet #virus #sec #crime #spam | Mar 22 00:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Brute Force and Sheer Power of Microsoft Windows | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.62 KB | Mar 22 00:47 |
| oiaohm | Now you are hearing MS developers talking about that the OS core need to be redesigned. http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/03/21/2345243/Multicore-Requires-OS-Rework-Windows-Expert-Says Only one problem Linux with supers has been working on this problem for years | Mar 22 00:47 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Technology Story | Multicore Requires OS Rework, Windows Expert Says .::. Size~: 132.09 KB | Mar 22 00:47 |
| oiaohm | I love the statement. | Mar 22 00:47 |
| oiaohm | kernel/userspace divide can be done away with and some magical hypervisor will cure problems. | Mar 22 00:48 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft admits WIndows is a relic | Mar 22 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Where is WSSP now? | Mar 22 00:49 |
| schestowitz | The Server thing? | Mar 22 00:49 |
| oiaohm | http://technologizer.com/2010/03/21/1968-ascii-animation-from-russia/ | Mar 22 00:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 1968 ASCII Animation from Russia .::. Size~: 36.57 KB | Mar 22 00:50 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Porting more PyGTK snippets to use the new documentation feature in python-snippets #pythonsnippets #acire | Mar 22 00:54 | |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: _Goblin http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2010032100135OPCYUB | Mar 22 00:55 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Today - All Done With Ubuntu .::. Size~: 81.51 KB | Mar 22 00:55 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz ^ | Mar 22 00:56 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 22 01:09 |
| _Goblin | gn | Mar 22 01:11 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Finished the PyGTK snippets, going to take a look at the others now. | Mar 22 01:13 | |
| *Balrog_ (~Balrog@pool-108-2-86-208.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 01:14 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/032010-novell-rejects-takeover.html | Mar 22 01:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Novell rejects "inadequate" $2B takeover bid .::. Size~: 81.14 KB | Mar 22 01:14 |
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| *Balrog_ is now known as Balrog | Mar 22 01:15 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah, old | Mar 22 01:24 |
| schestowitz | They want more money | Mar 22 01:25 |
| *Tallken has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 22 01:25 | |
| *Tallken (~f2f93bf57@93.102.71.27.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 01:25 | |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 01:28 | |
| DaemonFC | I might build Banshee on Windows | Mar 22 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | just to be extra evil | Mar 22 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Like your name indicates | Mar 22 01:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> is you must run winders, remove WMP and install SMPlayer | Mar 22 01:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Build it for Macdown Linux | Mar 22 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu 10.04 :-p | Mar 22 01:31 |
| *Balrog has quit (Quit: bye) | Mar 22 01:31 | |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 22 01:32 |
| DaemonFC | The teabaggers are getting demoralized and leaving | Mar 22 01:32 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I heard there's a Teabagger group in the UK now. Any comment? | Mar 22 01:33 |
| *Tallken has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Mar 22 01:35 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | http://torrentfreak.com/massive-protest-against-uk-anti-piracy-bill-100319/ | Mar 22 01:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Massive Protest Against UK Anti-Piracy Bill | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 63.92 KB | Mar 22 01:36 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, Firefox 3.7 has Direct2D support (have to manually enable it) | Mar 22 01:41 |
| DaemonFC | Opera 10.5 already has that | Mar 22 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | helps out rendering time a LOT | Mar 22 01:42 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: What would the answer to this on the Linux side be? | Mar 22 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Qt method is opengl for 2d | Mar 22 01:44 |
| oiaohm | The other is wait for X11 stack to be fixed. DaemonFC | Mar 22 01:45 |
| DaemonFC | or flip on Direct2D support and use the Direct2D support in ATI's Linux driver I guess | Mar 22 01:45 |
| DaemonFC | have to wait until that is more reliable though | Mar 22 01:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | To me getting open source drivers for ATI and NVidia, and newer Xorg releases seem to be first to really fixing opengl? Which appears to be holding back gaming on linux to some extent? | Mar 22 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Its not just opengl. | Mar 22 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Like only recently the has X11 got the means to to vsync swaping of buffers. | Mar 22 01:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I expect some pain for awhile. Its like the Doctor used to say, its going get worse before it gets better | Mar 22 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Very much is. | Mar 22 01:51 |
| oiaohm | DRI 1 was insanely limiting. | Mar 22 01:51 |
| oiaohm | Like only 1 opengl program at a time was techincally supported. | Mar 22 01:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm>yes, I was asking, and if you can expound on the opengl xorg ATI drivers thing, please do | Mar 22 01:51 |
| oiaohm | Like KMS and DRI2 alterations are techically not exactly for opengl. | Mar 22 01:52 |
| oiaohm | They are for everything. | Mar 22 01:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I even think they are holding back wine to some degree on ATI | Mar 22 01:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the old drivers that is | Mar 22 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Intel were worse. | Mar 22 01:52 |
| oiaohm | Its not just open source here. | Mar 22 01:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wine is picky which games play on ATI dual monitors xrama | Mar 22 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Same with Nvidia duel screen Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Again party X11 again. | Mar 22 01:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it seems they are trying to fix it | Mar 22 01:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | be its going take time | Mar 22 01:54 |
| oiaohm | X11 displayed virtual screen to programs with no way to see if 2 montors were being made one. | Mar 22 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: ATI's drivers only suck on Linux | Mar 22 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | on Windows and OS X, they're good | Mar 22 01:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's unreal | Mar 22 01:54 |
| oiaohm | ATI tried to stay inside the X11 standard. | Mar 22 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia said stuff it. | Mar 22 01:55 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Folks, we need your help reviewing and merging Ubuntu patches! See http://is.gd/aSesj for details. :-) Also, nigelb rocks. #ubuntu | Mar 22 01:55 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Help Needed! Reviewing And Merging Patches | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 26.55 KB | Mar 22 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Basically the framework ATI drivers have been sitting on is crap. | Mar 22 01:55 |
| oiaohm | That why I say its a lot deeper issue. | Mar 22 01:55 |
| oiaohm | You cannot just blame ATI for it. Lot of people are responable. | Mar 22 01:56 |
| *ianto has quit (Quit: Y mae dafad ddu ym mhob praidd - Every flock has its black sheep) | Mar 22 01:56 | |
| oiaohm | Like toolkit makers instead of fixing X11 just wrapped more and more code on top trying to cover up the errors. | Mar 22 01:56 |
| oiaohm | Basically if the lower level you are depending on sux's everthing above it will sux as well. | Mar 22 01:57 |
| oiaohm | Reason why soon X.org will draw a line in the sand and no longer support any DRI 1 drivers. | Mar 22 01:58 |
| oiaohm | Most people don't notice that the open source ATI drivers at moment using DRI2 can run sections of 2d about 40 to 200 times faster than the old closed source drivers on the same card. | Mar 22 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Yes the opengl section does not fully work yet. But rebuilding the complete stack takes time. | Mar 22 02:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Oiaohm> i don't play a lot of game, but the ATI dual monitor support is nice for me. But even there, I see that becoming more legacy with larger hd TV lcd's becoming the norm. Fixing this and making gaming work better (and maybe wine on the video stack as well) will help Linux adoption is my thought. | Mar 22 02:01 |
| oiaohm | There is already a subbranch in galuim3d expermenting with taking direct x9 from wine straight to video card by passing opengl. | Mar 22 02:02 |
| oiaohm | Would not been possible without the changes caused by DRI2 | Mar 22 02:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wine has really impressed me with the speed of improvements, MS should be very worried indeed. | Mar 22 02:03 |
| oiaohm | Lot of that is coming from the Linux kernel by the way Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Lot of kernel locks that were jaming wine are are no more. | Mar 22 02:04 |
| oiaohm | There are still some issues using real serial ports and the big kernel lock causing a few stalls. | Mar 22 02:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Interesting. So the video drivers when perfected may also help Xorg, and both may help wine? | Mar 22 02:05 |
| oiaohm | Big block of the issues are deep inside the system Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | the guy presiding over the House just ripped the GOP a new asshole | Mar 22 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | haha | Mar 22 02:05 |
| DaemonFC | refused to fall into that guys trap to block the vote | Mar 22 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Yes Chips_B_Malroy both are helping wine. Some hacks in wine only exist because sections of X11 don't work effectively either. | Mar 22 02:06 |
| oiaohm | One of the big changes wine developers are watching is the input system. | Mar 22 02:07 |
| oiaohm | X11 old input system is not very direct X compadible. | Mar 22 02:07 |
| oiaohm | Basically the problems are all over the place Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:07 |
| oiaohm | All of them are low level were most people fear to go. | Mar 22 02:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but it seems to be the place where it will be most useful to gain | Mar 22 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Nokia vmware and intel we have a lot to thank for. | Mar 22 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Lot of thier staff are going into the areas that have need fixing for years where people have feared to go. | Mar 22 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Like all the way upto 2004 x.org was still using user space round robin sheduler for most of it tasks. | Mar 22 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Even that all posix OS's had thread and process management form over 8 years before. | Mar 22 02:12 |
| oiaohm | from kernel | Mar 22 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Its why I said for years the Linux desktop simply did not stand a chance and that no one was really trying to make a Linux desktop. | Mar 22 02:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | for cutting edge gaming you mean? | Mar 22 02:13 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu really is not trying one of the critical things to make a desktop work is dealing with all these low level problems. | Mar 22 02:13 |
| oiaohm | No I mean for anything Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ah but it worked, and how many kluges in the Windose system? | Mar 22 02:14 |
| oiaohm | The core of a windows system techincally does work. | Mar 22 02:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but I do agree about the improvements | Mar 22 02:15 |
| oiaohm | The kluges are all above the core. | Mar 22 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Like when was the last time you saw windows lose input or put screen into a state it could not recover from. | Mar 22 02:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, I don't run windows really anymore | Mar 22 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Yes we laugh at the blue screen of death. But it always displayed. | Mar 22 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel panics on the other hand. | Mar 22 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Screen would just freese funny colors appear accross the top completley useless to debug what in hell went wrong. | Mar 22 02:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mostly you get the black screen in windows during bootup menus in xp | Mar 22 02:17 |
| oiaohm | The black screen comes form ntldr | Mar 22 02:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | some bugs it would lose user account data or regristary hosed up | Mar 22 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Windows bootloader failure | Mar 22 02:18 |
| oiaohm | grub can do the same. | Mar 22 02:18 |
| oiaohm | When talking about OS up and running and the loader has worked. You basically never see a failure that the screen is lost. | Mar 22 02:18 |
| oiaohm | With windows. | Mar 22 02:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | normally your would get the ntrdr failed to load message right away | Mar 22 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Not always. | Mar 22 02:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and for many many reasons | Mar 22 02:19 |
| oiaohm | ntldr tryed to process registry to know what drivers it needs to load. | Mar 22 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes it gets lost in damaged registries. | Mar 22 02:19 |
| oiaohm | If you leave it for many hours it sometimes comes out with the ntldr error message | Mar 22 02:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and sometimes xp decides you have changed to many pieces of hardware too, Bill does not like that | Mar 22 02:20 |
| oiaohm | That fails with a bluescreen. | Mar 22 02:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, you right on that one | Mar 22 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: OEM you can change everything bu t the motherboard | Mar 22 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | Retail is change anything you want | Mar 22 02:21 |
| oiaohm | All else fails windows resets the video card to vesa. and display error message. | Mar 22 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | you may trigger a re-activation | Mar 22 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Exactly what is so hard to do that. | Mar 22 02:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | once in awhile you can change the motherboard and it will work | Mar 22 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | those are infinite | Mar 22 02:21 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: If it's identical it will | Mar 22 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Does not have to be identical. | Mar 22 02:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mostly not | Mar 22 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Same core chipset and same maker works. | Mar 22 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Even if different model board. | Mar 22 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Now when machine is 5 years old finding that is really not going to happen often. | Mar 22 02:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | agreed | Mar 22 02:23 |
| oiaohm | At least if you have the choice of motherboards you now know what to look for if you want to avoid activation. | Mar 22 02:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but 98SE, Linux, and most likely W2000 were not a problem to change to a completely new computer. | Mar 22 02:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Before Bill's Hal DRM | Mar 22 02:26 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2000 had no Activation system | Mar 22 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Windows 2000 is driver picky. | Mar 22 02:27 |
| DaemonFC | XP was the first | Mar 22 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Make sure you have the same video card and Windows 2000 would sort it self out. | Mar 22 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Now change from a ATI to a NVIDIA nice blue screen of death. | Mar 22 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Or even change models. | Mar 22 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Some of the drivers evily over rid safe mode driver on 2000 | Mar 22 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | ATI or Nvidia or Nvidia to ATI will likely do bad things in Linux | Mar 22 02:29 |
| DaemonFC | both driver packages like to install their own OpenGL drivers | Mar 22 02:29 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia hunts and destories other Opengls | Mar 22 02:29 |
| oiaohm | On Linux | Mar 22 02:29 |
| oiaohm | ATI does not | Mar 22 02:29 |
| oiaohm | So you techincally can swap to intel cards from ATI no issues. | Mar 22 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | the RPM that RPM Fusion provides avoids that | Mar 22 02:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | just copy xorg.conf from the live cd to the hard drive in the new system | Mar 22 02:30 |
| oiaohm | That is the other thing ATI did try to intergate with mesa as well. | Mar 22 02:31 |
| oiaohm | And that thing has been a snail | Mar 22 02:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I expect great things watching the progress that is being made | Mar 22 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Lot of blame was sent in ATI direction over there drivers. But they were trying todo the right thing and respect the Linux stack. | Mar 22 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Us humans are bad at blaming the right people. | Mar 22 02:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> you might be interested in this one http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/new_google_project_make_3d_web_apps_more_windowsfriendly | Mar 22 02:41 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: New Google Project to Make 3D Web Apps More Windows-friendly | Maximum PC .::. Size~: 47.66 KB | Mar 22 02:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | " Since WebGL depends on the OpenGL graphics API, it is better suited to Linux and OS X as compared to Windows. But Google has just announced a new initiative called Almost Native Graphics Layer Engine, or ANGLE, to “layer WebGL's subset of the OpenGL ES 2.0 API over DirectX 9.0c API calls.” " | Mar 22 02:42 |
| *jono has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Mar 22 02:46 | |
| oiaohm | The project is stupid Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:47 |
| oiaohm | What are they going todo as WebGL expands the opengl feature it uses. | Mar 22 02:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have no idea, its beyond me, which is why I thought you would be interested. Google is planning something. | Mar 22 02:51 |
| oiaohm | Its a recycled idea by the way. Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:51 |
| oiaohm | Mesa 3d had a direct x 6 back end at one point. | Mar 22 02:51 |
| oiaohm | 10 years later does not make the idea any wiser. | Mar 22 02:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | could this be a more limited application of this | Mar 22 02:52 |
| oiaohm | Hell yes. | Mar 22 02:52 |
| oiaohm | opengl does not map to direct x. Wine can map to direct x as well as it does because functions to support that process has been added to opengl. | Mar 22 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Do you think MS is going to be adding opengl support functions to Direct X any time soon. | Mar 22 02:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am not an expert on this at all. But do read a little. Isn't opengl supported somewhat on windows, but MS crippled or slowed it down drastically on Vista/7? | Mar 22 02:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Help me here, I just trying to figure what Google is up to. | Mar 22 02:55 |
| oiaohm | If closed source drivers that work are installed nothing wrong with windows opengl. | Mar 22 02:55 |
| oiaohm | Now big thing here we can better direct X will not be able to support all the features coming in opengl over time. | Mar 22 02:55 |
| oiaohm | So angle will run into the same problems MS opengl software rendering does. | Mar 22 02:56 |
| DaemonFC | the health bill just passed | Mar 22 02:56 |
| oiaohm | If you are going todo something like angle you are better off to use something like mesa that has a software rendering framework to back you up for direct X limitations. | Mar 22 02:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it obvious that Google is using this web only, if I understand correctly. and most likely google wants to use free software opengl with a layer on it to work in chrome perhaps, on Windows computers? | Mar 22 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | 219 in favor | Mar 22 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | 3 more than needed | Mar 22 02:57 |
| oiaohm | How will it help opengl long term Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:57 |
| oiaohm | The result is worse than you can dream. Why should MS support opengl if everyone wraps onto direct X | Mar 22 02:58 |
| oiaohm | Then why should video card drivers ship with a opengl driver at all. | Mar 22 02:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | true | Mar 22 02:58 |
| oiaohm | By using mesa on windows with galuim3d you would at least have somethign there that could send data straight to video card. | Mar 22 02:59 |
| oiaohm | these wrapper solutions are not a solution. | Mar 22 02:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | let me ask you this | Mar 22 02:59 |
| oiaohm | Transmedia are behind it as well by the way. Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 02:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what I see is google wants this for web only. Since Google already had html5, what do they need this for? Online games perhaps for window users? | Mar 22 03:00 |
| oiaohm | Little worse than that. | Mar 22 03:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it did sound like apps for the desktop reading the post, but since Google is web based, I kind of think something else they need it for | Mar 22 03:02 |
| oiaohm | Google wants this for pnacl. I think the native code in browser thing they are working on. Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 03:02 |
| oiaohm | I think to the spelling of pnacl | Mar 22 03:02 |
| oiaohm | So effectivelly applications provided by web. No OS dependance. Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 03:03 |
| oiaohm | MS worst nightmare. | Mar 22 03:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> they have the votes in the Senate | Mar 22 03:03 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: The Senate doesn't need to authorize the main bill | Mar 22 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | they just passed the Senate version of that in the House | Mar 22 03:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oh | Mar 22 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | The bill coming up is amendments to the bill they jsut passed :P | Mar 22 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | it's a separate act | Mar 22 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | the senate only needs to vote on this part | Mar 22 03:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe its time to buy insurance stocks | Mar 22 03:06 |
| DaemonFC | meh | Mar 22 03:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | agreed | Mar 22 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | more customers but less profitable | Mar 22 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | saying you have to cover everyone and keep the price reasonable might get their profit margin down | Mar 22 03:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | nobody will make them cut rates now, they already jacked them up | Mar 22 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | even if total profit goes up | Mar 22 03:07 |
| DaemonFC | well, what I mean is, say I make a 20% profit margin by systematically avoiding covering high risk people, right? | Mar 22 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | What happens if I have to accept those people and keep my prices for everyone reasonable | Mar 22 03:08 |
| DaemonFC | my profit margin might now be 10%, but I have more customers | Mar 22 03:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | We will see, if this plan is good, the Dems will get a long run out of it. But remember, most people dislike insurance companies. If this is just another bill, the Republicains will be back in soon | Mar 22 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt they just passed something they know will sabotage their re-election | Mar 22 03:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | by another bill, I mean expense for the middle class. | Mar 22 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | the Republicans had nothing to lose if they defeated it because we'd never know what would have been | Mar 22 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | they could say they averted catastrophe and make up all kinds of would-be horror stories | Mar 22 03:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> I doubt they just passed something they know will sabotage their re-election" I really hope thats true, as the Republicians under Bush were not that smart. | Mar 22 03:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am wait and see on this. | Mar 22 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | guess we will, the bill is passed | Mar 22 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | the amendments bill is the only thing that matters now | Mar 22 03:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | A public option I did think good | Mar 22 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | the amendments bill just corrects the problems in the bill they just had to pass | Mar 22 03:13 |
| DaemonFC | they had to pass the bill they just passed, flaws included, cause the Senate composition changed since December | Mar 22 03:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, I understand that | Mar 22 03:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | procedure | Mar 22 03:14 |
| DaemonFC | if they can get the amendments bill through, it's good | Mar 22 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | if they don't, we have a horror story bloated with pork | Mar 22 03:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it depends on how much tax credit you give to the lower middle class for this insurance | Mar 22 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | "the government cannot grant us rights, that comes from natures god, and, and...." | Mar 22 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | this guy on the CSPAN "Oppose" line | Mar 22 03:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lower middle class cannot basically afford insurance now as it is | Mar 22 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: The government subsidies go up to 400% of the poverty line | Mar 22 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | so a single person could make something like $40,000-ish a year | Mar 22 03:18 |
| *enthymeme (~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 03:18 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes the rich opposes health treatment for others is sicking. | Mar 22 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | and be capped to paying no more than 6% of his income to health insurance | Mar 22 03:18 |
| enthymeme | right, have to add this channel to my autojoins | Mar 22 03:18 |
| *ender2070 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | Mar 22 03:18 | |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: It's $96.41 a month for Medicare Part B (health insurance) and about $35 a month for part D (drugs) | Mar 22 03:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | fine, that all well and good for Indiana, but how about out west or the south where the income might be 15000 per year? | Mar 22 03:19 |
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| DaemonFC | if you're a senior on social security making $1,200 a month, right? | Mar 22 03:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no | Mar 22 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | $131.41 now | Mar 22 03:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thats going hurt some of these folks | Mar 22 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | $72 under the plan that was passed now | Mar 22 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | so it really helps low and middle income people | Mar 22 03:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | we will see | Mar 22 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | means that little old lady won't be eating cat food | Mar 22 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | isn't that nice? :) | Mar 22 03:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | for some the insurance money may have gone to buy food | Mar 22 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: People that were single for all or most of their life get dry fucked by Social Security | Mar 22 03:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that remains to be seen | Mar 22 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | if you're married and your spouse dies, you draw theirs too | Mar 22 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | you did know that, right? | Mar 22 03:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, I am taking a wait a see look at this, it might be the best thing since sliced bread, who knows | Mar 22 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | so if I'm single all my life and then retire, I get like $1,000 a month | Mar 22 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | but if I'm married and my wife dies, I get her check too, and I'm living on $2,000 a month now | Mar 22 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | so Social Security is so unfair to single people | Mar 22 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | their reasoning is "It's to replace the income of the lost spouse" | Mar 22 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | Why not make them live on the same money the single guy on SSI has to? | Mar 22 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | so the government rewards people for being married | Mar 22 03:24 |
| neighborlee | YAY health care passes!!! | Mar 22 03:25 |
| neighborlee | and again,,the republicans go INTO the gutter by calling mr stupak a 'baby killler' | Mar 22 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | don't cheer yet, neighborlee | Mar 22 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | they're trying to block the amendments package | Mar 22 03:25 |
| neighborlee | its signed , sealed and delivered | Mar 22 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | without that, this is a turd | Mar 22 03:25 |
| neighborlee | it FAILED | Mar 22 03:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | for me, some of it dosen't soulnd too bad, but for younger people who do not need much medical treatment, and make little, not so sure | Mar 22 03:26 |
| neighborlee | read my lips it FAILED | Mar 22 03:26 |
| neighborlee | :) | Mar 22 03:26 |
| neighborlee | 219 votes NO ;) | Mar 22 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | well, now it goes to the Senate | Mar 22 03:26 |
| neighborlee | no its a done deal | Mar 22 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | buthe Rethuglicans can't filibuster it there | Mar 22 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | so 50 plus Vice President is all they need | Mar 22 03:26 |
| neighborlee | all that is left is ammendments..but health care for all americans is a done deal ;) | Mar 22 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | the amendments package I mean | Mar 22 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | All they need to pass amendments in the Senate is 50 + VP | Mar 22 03:27 |
| neighborlee | the amendments have nothing to do with it | Mar 22 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 03:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> even if its bad, it might get improved later. The trick was to get something passed. | Mar 22 03:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not for all americans | Mar 22 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | I'd keep Biden in DC while that's being debated | Mar 22 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | maybe have him preside over the Senate for it | Mar 22 03:28 |
| neighborlee | anyway..itws clear the republicans only care about beating up on rights for unBORN..what about rights for people already OUT of teh womb and alive! | Mar 22 03:28 |
| neighborlee | I guess they dont care about us..imagine that. | Mar 22 03:28 |
| neighborlee | typical | Mar 22 03:28 |
| neighborlee | and their language..DISGUSTING | Mar 22 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth, neighborlee | Mar 22 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | apparently :P | Mar 22 03:29 |
| neighborlee | oooooook | Mar 22 03:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | there will be a lot of republicans very unhappy about this | Mar 22 03:29 |
| neighborlee | your very confused ;) | Mar 22 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: The Republicans | Mar 22 03:30 |
| neighborlee | Chips_B_Malroy: its already beyond that | Mar 22 03:30 |
| DaemonFC | "The right to life begins at conception and ends at birth" | Mar 22 03:30 |
| DaemonFC | get it? | Mar 22 03:30 |
| DaemonFC | nothing for you once you're here! | Mar 22 03:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I would almost like to turn on the AM radio and listen to Rush foam at the mouth tommorrow | Mar 22 03:30 |
| neighborlee | Chips_B_Malroy: the republicans not only lost the vote..they lost the trust of aamericans showiong what immoral people they really are by saying 'baby killer' to mr stupak | Mar 22 03:30 |
| DaemonFC | you're now free to freeze, starve, or get sick and die | Mar 22 03:30 |
| neighborlee | their TRUE colors have been revealed. | Mar 22 03:30 |
| neighborlee | about time. | Mar 22 03:30 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Dave Probert 'Why should you ever, with all this parallel hardware, ever be waiting for your computer?' http://bit.ly/aspP2r #slashdot | Mar 22 03:31 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot | Multicore Requires OS Rework, Windows Expert Says .::. Size~: 144.97 KB | Mar 22 03:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | neighborlee>I was only commenting on the health bill not on abortion | Mar 22 03:31 |
| neighborlee | yup I know | Mar 22 03:31 |
| neighborlee | Im just making it clear what republicans have done.. | Mar 22 03:32 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: I'm opposed to willful abortion, but I'm amazed at how many "conservatives" think your right to live stops at birth | Mar 22 03:32 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Not to fear, my Republican friends. Bills can be repealed. The question is: Does the will to do so exist or was it all bluster? | Mar 22 03:32 | |
| DaemonFC | I think the compromise they reached "no federal funding" is as good as this bill will get | Mar 22 03:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they my former party, have blocked any meaningful health care for any person in need | Mar 22 03:32 |
| neighborlee | Chips_B_Malroy: yes, and you know why | Mar 22 03:33 |
| neighborlee | its called MONEY | Mar 22 03:33 |
| neighborlee | votes for 'sale' ;) | Mar 22 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: I'm in favor of free contraception coverage | Mar 22 03:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or deraingment | Mar 22 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | as much as you need | Mar 22 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | that's what I want to see paid for | Mar 22 03:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | is why they blocked it | Mar 22 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | contraception is a good thing, there's no reason to slice and dice a baby because you didn't use a condom | Mar 22 03:34 |
| DaemonFC | none at all | Mar 22 03:34 |
| DaemonFC | and I don't even want to hear them justify that | Mar 22 03:34 |
| neighborlee | no matter whats done is done...and soon health care becomes more in the realm of a RIGHT, not just a priviledge for the chosen FEW rich people | Mar 22 03:34 |
| neighborlee | amen. | Mar 22 03:34 |
| neighborlee | im PROUD to join the ranks of other 'civil' industrialized nations, who care for their citizens. ;) | Mar 22 03:34 |
| neighborlee | yay team | Mar 22 03:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> actully I am too in favor of free contraceptives, it cheaper than funding abortions, and has to be less painful | Mar 22 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: It's an ethical way to solve the unwanted pregnancy problem | Mar 22 03:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | neighborlee>we are not there entirely, it does not cover everyone | Mar 22 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | stop it before it gets to that point | Mar 22 03:35 |
| neighborlee | no one likes the idea of abortion..I surely dont either...but we have to deal with it intelligently and compassinatley, not just talk nonsense and yelll baby killer when trying to score political points | Mar 22 03:35 |
| DaemonFC | I really hope this government insurance thing covers birth control pills | Mar 22 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | it really really should | Mar 22 03:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it cannot until the next election | Mar 22 03:36 |
| neighborlee | its NOT just about birth control | Mar 22 03:36 |
| neighborlee | its about teaching kids about abstinance too.. | Mar 22 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | that doesn't work | Mar 22 03:36 |
| neighborlee | and stopping porn shops around every corner.its immoral | Mar 22 03:37 |
| neighborlee | it might help though | Mar 22 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | the more you beat that into them, the higher the teen pregnancy rate goes | Mar 22 03:37 |
| neighborlee | who said amnything about beating it into them ? | Mar 22 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | why not just be pragmatic and tell them to be responsible? | Mar 22 03:37 |
| neighborlee | that was you not me | Mar 22 03:37 |
| neighborlee | :) | Mar 22 03:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | <neighborlee> and stopping porn shops around every corner.its immoral" Tell that to Lumpy | Mar 22 03:37 |
| neighborlee | and who is lumpy | Mar 22 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | heh, porn shops are fine | Mar 22 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | they don't let kids in | Mar 22 03:37 |
| neighborlee | so that makes it ok ? | Mar 22 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | sure | Mar 22 03:38 |
| neighborlee | WRONG | Mar 22 03:38 |
| neighborlee | please tell me.. | Mar 22 03:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Lumpy=Lefty | Mar 22 03:38 |
| neighborlee | how I was born , by a mother who never stepped foot into a porn shop..p.lease tell me how my mother survived life | Mar 22 03:38 |
| neighborlee | Im eager to hear the answer ;) | Mar 22 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | Boudoir Noir in Fort Wayne | Mar 22 03:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you can ask Ender the rest of the Lefty porn shop story | Mar 22 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | get a kick every time I go in there | Mar 22 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | they also have a nice collection of bongs | Mar 22 03:39 |
| neighborlee | now before Im scoled and told im naive...lets just say im anything but, and im NOT a virgin | Mar 22 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | "for tobacco use" of course ;) | Mar 22 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | gah, with this cough and congestion, my neighbors probably think I'm over here smoking pot | Mar 22 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | that's the last time my lungs felt like this | Mar 22 03:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so once this passes the senate, anyone know how long this takes to take effect? | Mar 22 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | as soon as they can get the President's signature on it | Mar 22 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | probably next week | Mar 22 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | he'll sign the main bill tomorrow no doubt | Mar 22 03:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and does it cover part time jobs? its hard to even find full time jobs right now | Mar 22 03:43 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know | Mar 22 03:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | guess we will find out then DeamonFC | Mar 22 03:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you know big boxmart will screw more people as part timers to get around this insurance if its only for full timers | Mar 22 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 22 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | I'm capped at 2% of my income to health insurance | Mar 22 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | under this plan | Mar 22 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | or maybe 3% | Mar 22 03:49 |
| neighborlee | sorry friend called..bbl | Mar 22 03:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | one thing I totally agree with the Dems on, that the Richer folks need to pay more | Mar 22 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | "Fines employers with 50 or more employees if any full-time workers qualify for health care subsidies" | Mar 22 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Mar 22 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Walmart will be going all part time to dodge that | Mar 22 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | they'll give out 1 hour less per week than the bill considers "full time" | Mar 22 03:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you cannot make some poor young person making 12 to 15k a year, pay insurance bill too. They are the working poor | Mar 22 03:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: erm | Mar 22 03:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | they sort of did | Mar 22 03:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | re: walmart | Mar 22 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | Well, Walmart was lobbying for universal coverage | Mar 22 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | wonder if their lobbyists liked this bill | Mar 22 03:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Actually, I am thinking this bill could be a help to Walmart employees | Mar 22 03:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the funding for the insurance is not employer based correct? | Mar 22 03:55 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Recommended by Ghabuntu , good site opsound, creative commons music. http://opsound.org/ | Mar 22 03:56 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: opsound: free love, free music .::. Size~: 5.49 KB | Mar 22 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | one of the Congress Critters from Georgia just resigned! | Mar 22 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!! | Mar 22 03:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Repub or Dem? | Mar 22 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | Republican | Mar 22 03:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | why? | Mar 22 03:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | is he mad | Mar 22 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.contactingthecongress.org/cgi-bin/newmemberbio.cgi?lang=&member=GA09&site=ctc&address=&city=&state=GA&zipcode=&plusfour= | Mar 22 03:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Information on Representative Nathan Deal of Georgia .::. Size~: 11.31 KB | Mar 22 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | He just resigned | Mar 22 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | effective NOW | Mar 22 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | heh, health care passed | Mar 22 03:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | right after the vote | Mar 22 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | and one less Republican | Mar 22 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | nice | Mar 22 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | yep | Mar 22 03:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they must have told him wait till after the vote | Mar 22 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Mar 22 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | they figured they had a better change of stopping the bill if he stayed on a little longer | Mar 22 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | *chance | Mar 22 04:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they usually resign for some scandel about to be exposed | Mar 22 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | Obama's live on T | Mar 22 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | *TV | Mar 22 04:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not here, must be because of the time change | Mar 22 04:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it will be on the regular news in an hour | Mar 22 04:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | TVTime works great with my old WinTV card in Linux | Mar 22 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1738-Summary-of-the-HCR-Reconiliation-Bill- | Mar 22 04:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Health Care Reconciliation Bill Summary - Blog - OpenCongress .::. Size~: 120.06 KB | Mar 22 04:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have to look up the station Rush Limbaugh is on and try to listen to him for a bit tomorrow, it should be entertaining | Mar 22 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | oh hell no | Mar 22 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | I can't listen to him | Mar 22 04:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I can hear it now, bunch of commies passed this bill. lol | Mar 22 04:16 |
| DaemonFC | I feel like my ears have bacon grease in them just from hearing his voice | Mar 22 04:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Maybe I should start calling everyone Comrade? | Mar 22 04:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC>he is going be on major tilt tomorrow, it will be fun to listen | Mar 22 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | It's just the Oxycontin talking | Mar 22 04:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but then again, its probably too much effort to bother | Mar 22 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | My car is in such bad shape, even Rush Limbaugh might outrun it | Mar 22 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | *sigh* | Mar 22 04:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I doubt that, unless he is on the golf course heading for the buffet | Mar 22 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | having a heart attack and going to the hospital in Hawaii where the taxpayers are paying for it | Mar 22 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | and then saying he loved the treatment he got | Mar 22 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | whoop | Mar 22 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | *whoops | Mar 22 04:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well yes, he is a millionarie | Mar 22 04:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he is not a poor slob | Mar 22 04:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he is a rich slob | Mar 22 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | right, but Hawaii has a single payer system | Mar 22 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | they don't even ask about your insurance, they just go to work | Mar 22 04:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I did not know that | Mar 22 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGTBJHVjCeQ | Mar 22 04:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Discover Card Ad - Emergency Room .::. Size~: 112.12 KB | Mar 22 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | That's the other 49 states | Mar 22 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Mar 22 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: Yes, and the vast majority of Hawaiians that make under $200,000 a year are very happy with their coverage | Mar 22 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | imagine that | Mar 22 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | the rich people think it's "communist" | Mar 22 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | oddly enough the rich people there can't incite the poor people because the poor people like their insurance and the premiums | Mar 22 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | hell, even some of the people paying high taxes say they like it because it cuts through the red tape and they get treated rather than fight the insurance claims adjusters | Mar 22 04:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes Comrade DaemonFC | Mar 22 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: Isn't it horrible, having affordable insurance and not fighting bean counters? | Mar 22 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | It's a plot to destroy America! | Mar 22 04:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not completely sure yet | Mar 22 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | Have you ever slugged it out with the bean counters? | Mar 22 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | or been without insurance and nobody will help you? | Mar 22 04:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the only thing for sure, was the the Republicans were against everything | Mar 22 04:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am there right now | Mar 22 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | there's 200 Republican amendments in that bill | Mar 22 04:27 |
| DaemonFC | Pelosi made sure to mention that | Mar 22 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | but not one of them voted for it | Mar 22 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | They used the amendments to stall it in the Senate | Mar 22 04:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, they did not want it, obviously | Mar 22 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | but some of them were common sense or a good idea and got absorbed | Mar 22 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 04:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the repubs liked things the way they are | Mar 22 04:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you know, hospital, doctors, insurance companies, big pharma, all ripping you off, with lawyers thrown into the pie, if you cannot pay | Mar 22 04:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | take away your life savings | Mar 22 04:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | leave your spouse broke | Mar 22 04:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they had no problem with that Comrade | Mar 22 04:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oh, can I add dentists into that mix | Mar 22 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: That was some of the reason behind Bush's Privatized Social Security drive | Mar 22 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | the hospitals could sue you and steal your retirement savings | Mar 22 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | he never mentioned that part | Mar 22 04:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Comrade Bush was a saint, how could you say such a thing? | Mar 22 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | home foreclosed? bank sues you, steals your retirement | Mar 22 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | car repossessed? finance company sues you, steals your retirement | Mar 22 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: See, when your car gets repossessed, they auction it off | Mar 22 04:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Think they might have moved the tent city out here, somehow that just reminded me of Bush for some reason | Mar 22 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | and whatever the difference is between the auction price and what you owe, they send you the bill for | Mar 22 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | so say they repo your car, you owe $10,000, it sells for $7,000 | Mar 22 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | you owe them $3,000 | Mar 22 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | they then sue you and take from your other assets to pay them back | Mar 22 04:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | clearly cars and houses should be illegal then | Mar 22 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: Retirement accounts should be off limits in a lawsuit | Mar 22 04:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes they should be | Mar 22 04:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact, banks shouldnt be able to recoup losses at all | Mar 22 04:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | if they were stupid enough to loan money to a credit risk, thats their fault | Mar 22 04:36 |
| DaemonFC | but then to make matters worse, you pay a 15% tax penalty plus the income tax on whatever they took from your retirement savings | Mar 22 04:36 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 04:36 |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Now this is one nice looking Ubuntu distro, but it's also not offical so no wonder :D http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/lubuntu-1004-beta-1-available-to.html | Mar 22 04:37 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lubuntu 10.04 Beta 1 Released; Visual overview | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 103.85 KB | Mar 22 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | so then you may end up owing the IRS $600 on the $3,000 they sued and took from you | Mar 22 04:37 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: above link ^ | Mar 22 04:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd just report the money stolen | Mar 22 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't work like that | Mar 22 04:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mostly the banks just repo houses and cars. but they can go after bank accounts if they sue, and can have the court garnish wages if they win | Mar 22 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 04:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, it was stolen | Mar 22 04:38 |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC oiaohm and yes I known about LXDE and Lubuntu for quite a while | Mar 22 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | since I didnt authorize them to steal it | Mar 22 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: Not in legal terms. | Mar 22 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | lxde sucks, btw | Mar 22 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: no, in I have a gun and I know how to use it terms. | Mar 22 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: Who are you going to shoot? | Mar 22 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | they get a court order, your bank wires them your money | Mar 22 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | bank officers, police | Mar 22 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | anyone who walks on my land | Mar 22 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | all I have to do is put up a TRESPASSERS WILL BE SHOT sign | Mar 22 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: I'd shoot up the finance company's office | Mar 22 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | if anything | Mar 22 04:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | try to repo my car? I'm now legally required to shoot them after putting the sign up. | Mar 22 04:39 |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: oiaohm Or is it offical, or sort of offical hrm | Mar 22 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: Actually, you're within your rights to shoot a repo man in Texas, if he comes onto your property | Mar 22 04:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | if I dont shoot them, I could be liable for not shooting them | Mar 22 04:39 |
| sebsebseb | Diablo-D3: oiaohm Since there's Lubuntu/LXDE in Karmic repo for example. | Mar 22 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | One good thing about Texas I guess | Mar 22 04:40 |
| oiaohm | Really Lubuntu will not address the maintainership issues effecting ubuntu. Only effect the bundling issues. sebsebseb | Mar 22 04:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I seldom ever turn on the TV. Just turned it on to watch the obama health care bill | Mar 22 04:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | half the stations not in English here | Mar 22 04:54 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: anyway as you were saying last night or whatever | Mar 22 04:54 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: no distro is number one for over five years | Mar 22 04:54 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well here's maybe an example of the changes, plus I gave a link earlier that no one replied to here earlier. http://www.fewt.com/2010/03/bye-ubuntu-it-could-have-been-fun-but.html | Mar 22 04:55 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: fewt@blog:~$ _: Bye Ubuntu, it could have been fun .. but it wasn't .::. Size~: 166.37 KB | Mar 22 04:55 |
| oiaohm | I said all have fragemented eventionally. | Mar 22 04:55 |
| oiaohm | None of the distributions have learnt from history. | Mar 22 04:55 |
| oiaohm | If you want to stay there is hard work. | Mar 22 04:55 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: anyway Ubuntu has been number one for over five years? Just over? | Mar 22 04:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Canonical is a private company funded by Shuttleworth, it is different than all the other examples | Mar 22 04:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think | Mar 22 04:56 |
| oiaohm | Not really redhat was king at one point Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 04:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | if canonical | Mar 22 04:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | ever went public | Mar 22 04:57 |
| sebsebseb | They have a team for this and that, also it's true that most stuff that their design team has done so far, sucks really | Mar 22 04:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd short them | Mar 22 04:57 |
| sebsebseb | also it seems basically you need to be there at the Ubuntu Developer Summit if you want this or that change in there, anything after that, is usueaully to late | Mar 22 04:57 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: no point fixing front end if back end sux's sebsebseb | Mar 22 04:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not disagreeing with you guys, its just that they have money to do marketing | Mar 22 04:57 |
| sebsebseb | even if loads of people complain about something, which is the example wit the buttons, that loads of people are going on about now | Mar 22 04:57 |
| oiaohm | Redhat got to top by marketing as well Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 04:58 |
| oiaohm | History is repeating. | Mar 22 04:58 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu was not the first distribution todo what they did. | Mar 22 04:58 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: example of the changes? above, I meant an example of the times slowly changing | Mar 22 04:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Yes but Red Hat really wanted corporate money | Mar 22 04:59 |
| oiaohm | They wanted the desktop as well at one point Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 04:59 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu 8.10 the last truely good release, except for how for example the ethernet woudn't just work on the other computer. In fact I never bothered to really, really try and get it working, since 9.04 was already out, by the time I had upgraded the 8.04 that was on there. I thought it was an issue with the update, but turns out the Live CD woudn't work either. | Mar 22 04:59 |
| oiaohm | Even Ubuntu is being forced to slowly come around to the server game to make profit. | Mar 22 04:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Thats true, I remember Red Hat (think it was version 7?) being sold in a box in CompUSA | Mar 22 05:00 |
| sebsebseb | I tried to get it working, but gave up, since didn't know what I had to do, and 9.04 was already out. | Mar 22 05:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | There is one other good way to make money on a distro | Mar 22 05:00 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: 7 and 8 were both shipped box set. | Mar 22 05:00 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: well depends, if they do the consumer desktop side of it properly, they can make good money from that | Mar 22 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu just has had a longer run before their mistakes started catching up with them. | Mar 22 05:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | have it preinstalled on an OEM and charge a few bucks to support the next models, as a service contract to the OEM's | Mar 22 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Redhat use to sub branch a lot of projects as well. | Mar 22 05:01 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: I meant services, Ubuntu One for example | Mar 22 05:01 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: and the music store | Mar 22 05:01 |
| sebsebseb | yes things I don't want to use, but | Mar 22 05:01 |
| sebsebseb | quite a lot of people will want to use that, and pay | Mar 22 05:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ubuntu had free cd send by free mail | Mar 22 05:02 |
| sebsebseb | yes 2GB free space for Ubuntu One, but quite a lot of people will pay I think for more space as well | Mar 22 05:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thats what they had | Mar 22 05:02 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: yeah and Mandriva got it's legal issues and such, and so Ubuntu took over | Mar 22 05:02 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: there's a good article about the history of Mandrake/Mandriva where KDE and Gnome get mentioned a little bit as well | Mar 22 05:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IMO Ubuntu has only in the last couple of years caught up to some of the other distro's as far as being easy to use for newbies | Mar 22 05:03 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: anyway I guess if Ubuntu do Gnome 3 well soon, they will be ok | Mar 22 05:03 |
| sebsebseb | September is Gnome 3 | Mar 22 05:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not that they were terrible or anything | Mar 22 05:03 |
| sebsebseb | to new for Ubuntu to have as default in 10.10 I guess, but if it's a good install from the repo :) altough other distros will also have that | Mar 22 05:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ubuntu is still Debian at heart | Mar 22 05:04 |
| oiaohm | Mistake 1 you can make when making a distribution is failing to work with upstream. | Mar 22 05:04 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah these recent Gnome edits uh | Mar 22 05:04 |
| oiaohm | Every distribution to get to top has made that mistake. | Mar 22 05:05 |
| sebsebseb | ok social features may win quite a few people over to Ubuntu, but it's a nasty Gnome edit really | Mar 22 05:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> yes, they seem to fail there | Mar 22 05:05 |
| oiaohm | First to do it by the way was debian. | Mar 22 05:05 |
| sebsebseb | also now when me menu is on. well bye bye automatic shut down feature after a minute | Mar 22 05:05 |
| sebsebseb | when it's removed | Mar 22 05:05 |
| oiaohm | And they still have issues with working with upstream. | Mar 22 05:05 |
| sebsebseb | that's there again | Mar 22 05:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and moving towards M$ is not going endear them to many in the Linux community | Mar 22 05:05 |
| sebsebseb | and they made shut down and restart, way to well idiot profe | Mar 22 05:06 |
| sebsebseb | in 10.04 | Mar 22 05:06 |
| sebsebseb | however remove me menu, and it's like before | Mar 22 05:06 |
| sebsebseb | and they have linked me menu, and their old edited fusa together, which I don't like much at all, but I would nromalely just remove that anyway, shut down and log out in system menu. and sound config in the envolope uh. yes little things, but little things that matter to some of us and a lot | Mar 22 05:07 |
| sebsebseb | those were just examples, quite a few things that I don't like about 10.04. | Mar 22 05:07 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] National Free Software coalition formed http://www.hindu.com/2010/03/22/stories/2010032263622000.htm #india #foss #freesoftware | Mar 22 05:08 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Well it will be interesting when 10.04 final comes out, espesailly if those buttons are still on the left. | Mar 22 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy: The health care bill has been causing insurance stocks to climb | Mar 22 05:08 |
| *enthymeme has quit (Quit: brb, router hop.) | Mar 22 05:08 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | They will be a shift, depending on what happens to Opensuse | Mar 22 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | obviously the investors know it's going to be a money maker | Mar 22 05:09 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: A shift, you mean another distro might become number one? | Mar 22 05:09 |
| sebsebseb | this year? | Mar 22 05:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | It a huge tax DaemonFC, and the recipents are the Insurance companies, no matter if you think its a good thing or not. | Mar 22 05:09 |
| *_goblin (~goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 05:10 | |
| sebsebseb | _goblin: hrm | Mar 22 05:10 |
| sebsebseb | _goblin: up rather early I assume? | Mar 22 05:10 |
| sebsebseb | where as some of us haven't even gone to bed yet since... | Mar 22 05:11 |
| _goblin | yeah | Mar 22 05:11 |
| _goblin | sort of | Mar 22 05:11 |
| _goblin | havent been to bed and wont now | Mar 22 05:11 |
| sebsebseb | _goblin: oh | Mar 22 05:11 |
| sebsebseb | how come? | Mar 22 05:11 |
| _goblin | lads got a cough.... | Mar 22 05:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sebsebseb>its possible. As oiaohm says. Ubuntu still has money behind it. But the future of Suse is not certain. Will opensuse that is. What would happen to Suse if the successor to Novell basically stops development? | Mar 22 05:11 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: then if Ubuntu mess up a lot at the same time | Mar 22 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Opensuse is not a key distribution Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 05:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | those open suse users have to go somewhere, I doubt it will be Ubuntu | Mar 22 05:12 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: I guess Mint might hit off, but mgith have to end up getting based on Debian instead of Ubuntu | Mar 22 05:12 |
| oiaohm | If suse disappears no major lose. | Mar 22 05:12 |
| sebsebseb | also Fedora could hit off | Mar 22 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Most likely fedora or some other main will pick them up. | Mar 22 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | I have some weird freaky shit going on | Mar 22 05:13 |
| sebsebseb | and Mandriva could maybe get another chance at becoming number one, but if not well number two seems more likelyh | Mar 22 05:13 |
| oiaohm | I know this is sad to say I really do hope to see suse no more. | Mar 22 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | and I'd suspect it's going to need antibiotics to kill it | Mar 22 05:13 |
| oiaohm | Lot of things suse did were walled garden methods and not working with upstream. | Mar 22 05:13 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I know it's sad to say, but when I think about it, if Ubuntu keeps on having this and that, in there new releases, that I don't like | Mar 22 05:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> If suse disappears no major lose" well, I kinda agree, but would not want to insult any of their users | Mar 22 05:14 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I hope they mess up as well | Mar 22 05:14 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well | Mar 22 05:14 |
| sebsebseb | I want Desktop Linux to hit off | Mar 22 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | Suse could survive Novell | Mar 22 05:14 |
| sebsebseb | which distro isn't really relivant | Mar 22 05:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> Suse could survive Novell" That is the most likely case | Mar 22 05:15 |
| oiaohm | We need distribution deaths any how. | Mar 22 05:15 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Still got Ubuntu on the other computer, and yes it will get upgraded to 10.04, why though simple, since I only know Ubuntu properly at the moment | Mar 22 05:15 |
| oiaohm | I know that is savage to say. | Mar 22 05:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | No, bring back Kanotix! | Mar 22 05:15 |
| oiaohm | We cannot keep on justifying the fanned out development we have. | Mar 22 05:15 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: plus I think one of the users might use the social features, but if not, I will think more about putting Mandriva on there | Mar 22 05:15 |
| sebsebseb | _goblin: you got work today or not? | Mar 22 05:16 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.x is bring the social features to all KDE based distributions. | Mar 22 05:16 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah there's that as well, KDE 4 already has something | Mar 22 05:17 |
| oiaohm | The normal cycle is gnome distribution at top then replaced by a KDE one. | Mar 22 05:17 |
| oiaohm | I really would like to see another WM get in that loop. | Mar 22 05:17 |
| oiaohm | It would be funny if suse died and KDE decided to straight up offer a distribution. | Mar 22 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Ie lets cut out the middle men problems. | Mar 22 05:18 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] and good old O2 Broadband is playing up again......on going saga now. As soon as our building work is done,Im changing to another provider. | Mar 22 05:18 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Fedora or Mandrivia would most likely pick up most of the suse users if it died | Mar 22 05:18 |
| oiaohm | That is part of the problem we have desktop designers and distributions are two different entities. | Mar 22 05:18 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I read a comment earlier that said some stuff and this basically or well yeah this. Mandriva 2010 is what Ubuntu should have been | Mar 22 05:19 |
| sebsebseb | Mandriva 2010 is great | Mar 22 05:19 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu 9.10 isn't | Mar 22 05:19 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I'll also make it my mission to warn people off them. My experiences are not unique (from talking to other customers) #o2 #fail | Mar 22 05:19 | |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu 10.04 won't be either | Mar 22 05:19 |
| *_goblin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Mar 22 05:19 | |
| sebsebseb | 9.04 was quite good really, except for the fusa edits, fast user account switcher, that also resulted in shut down and log out being removed from system menu (hrm at the amount of times I have typed this kind of thing on IRC) | Mar 22 05:19 |
| oiaohm | Thing most people don't see is every time a walled garden develop distribution has falling the remaining distributions pickup features from there developers and users. | Mar 22 05:20 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Chips_B_Malroy anyway it's refreshing I think to read negative Ubuntu stuff, even though all of it isn't really fair | Mar 22 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Really SUSE users end up at Fedora with the strong upstream first policy would improve some things. | Mar 22 05:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] It seems that Israel are in the process of reducing their international supporters to the USA Republican Party. #Palestine #occupation | Mar 22 05:21 | |
| sebsebseb | refreshing these days, since I am not that keen on it myself these days, and well it's still got a huge following of people who think it is great, well for now anyway | Mar 22 05:21 |
| sebsebseb | and I mean people that know about other distro's | Mar 22 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Yes same with redhat and mandrake when they were at top. | Mar 22 05:22 |
| oiaohm | Same with debian and slackware as well. | Mar 22 05:22 |
| oiaohm | its nothing strange. | Mar 22 05:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sebsebseb>don't get me wrong, I don't hate Ubuntu at all. I dislike the moving towards MS, the yahoo/bing deal. and i dislike the mono embraceing. So I don't use it. | Mar 22 05:23 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: yes I don't hate it either | Mar 22 05:23 |
| sebsebseb | I am just starting to dislike it much more | Mar 22 05:23 |
| sebsebseb | starting with 9.04 | Mar 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | I hate how poor Ubuntu quality control and upstream work is. | Mar 22 05:23 |
| sebsebseb | then there was stuff in 9.10 that I didn't like as well, not all of it Ubuntu's fault, for example the new GDM | Mar 22 05:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I could use it. In fact I would use it instead of winders any day | Mar 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | I always complained at debian about it. | Mar 22 05:23 |
| oiaohm | But ubuntu managed todo it worse than debian. | Mar 22 05:23 |
| sebsebseb | and now well 10.04 development I am not keen on 10.04 at all | Mar 22 05:24 |
| sebsebseb | I have been virtual machince trying it | Mar 22 05:24 |
| sebsebseb | quite a bit here and there | Mar 22 05:24 |
| sebsebseb | I still got Beta 1 ISO to download to try new installer, but I been using an updated daily build recently. and I have done all the other ISO's in vm already. | Mar 22 05:24 |
| sebsebseb | since alpha 1, so alpha 1, 2, and 3 | Mar 22 05:25 |
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| oiaohm | Basically I see the signs of a dieing distribution in ubuntu. | Mar 22 05:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | all of us have our preferences, and mine are several before Ubuntu, but that does not make it a terrible distro | Mar 22 05:25 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: yeah I would use Ubuntu instead of Windows as well, but to be honest their are certain things I like about Windows, graphical things though | Mar 22 05:25 |
| oiaohm | Users only put up with being maltreated for so long. | Mar 22 05:25 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin lol, you have been threatening to change provider since I have known you :) | Mar 22 05:26 | |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: I am seeing those signs more as well now | Mar 22 05:26 |
| oiaohm | Thing is those signs show up well before it becomes critical. | Mar 22 05:26 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: the button stuff is a good example, I still haven't read loads of those comments, shuttleworths reply though yes | Mar 22 05:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But having said that about Ubuntu, I could have said the same thing about OpenSuse, Linspire, Turbolinux, etc | Mar 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | if management of distribution responed to them correctly no harm comes. | Mar 22 05:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, I would have used them too before winders | Mar 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Yes long list of historic failures Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 05:27 |
| oiaohm | History does for tell the future if no one learns from it. | Mar 22 05:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and for me, Ubuntu is close to being on that list | Mar 22 05:28 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: Ubuntu has more users than Mandriva | Mar 22 05:28 |
| sebsebseb | and if most of the users get unhappy with it | Mar 22 05:28 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu still has about 2 years before it will reach critical. | Mar 22 05:29 |
| sebsebseb | well I assume Ubuntu has more users than Mandriva had | Mar 22 05:29 |
| sebsebseb | when it was number one I mean | Mar 22 05:29 |
| sebsebseb | anyway people read the web | Mar 22 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Ie point of no return. | Mar 22 05:29 |
| sebsebseb | web has taken off much more, since Mandriva was number one | Mar 22 05:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | My brother loves Ubuntu | Mar 22 05:29 |
| sebsebseb | people will search for Ubuntu and get negative stuff as well as postive | Mar 22 05:29 |
| oiaohm | The thing is the Ubuntu people who leave it will most likely leave to other distributions. | Mar 22 05:30 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yes | Mar 22 05:30 |
| oiaohm | Problem is 1 person leaving can take like 20 to thirty others with them. | Mar 22 05:30 |
| sebsebseb | that's already happening more now | Mar 22 05:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | guess it could be worse, since Ubuntu is based on Debian I am able to give him some tech support | Mar 22 05:30 |
| oiaohm | In the open source world. | Mar 22 05:30 |
| oiaohm | So it acclerates. | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yes blog enteries | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | people complaining about Ubuntu | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | saying they are leaving | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | we have the web now | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | well web was there when Mandriva was number one | Mar 22 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Even that Ubuntu has huge numbers of people. | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | just not as used | Mar 22 05:31 |
| sebsebseb | web is rather powerful at getting messages out to many people | Mar 22 05:31 |
| oiaohm | It will not take long for them to disappear. | Mar 22 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Basically Ubuntu can fall faster than it got there. | Mar 22 05:32 |
| sebsebseb | I guess Ubuntu people will go to Mint | Mar 22 05:32 |
| sebsebseb | or Debian | Mar 22 05:32 |
| oiaohm | Many times faster. | Mar 22 05:32 |
| sebsebseb | or Fedora | Mar 22 05:32 |
| oiaohm | The normal distribution break up. | Mar 22 05:32 |
| sebsebseb | some will go to or back to Mandriva | Mar 22 05:32 |
| oiaohm | You can take the top 20 off distro watch and that is where about 90 percent of them will go. | Mar 22 05:32 |
| oiaohm | To one of them. | Mar 22 05:33 |
| oiaohm | The remaining 10 percent will go to something odd ball. | Mar 22 05:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Debian requires a little more knownledge to setup than Ubuntu for newbies. But yes its far better IMO | Mar 22 05:33 |
| oiaohm | That is basically the normal distribution by by break down. | Mar 22 05:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Sidux is not for newbies, its based on Debian | Mar 22 05:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I use | Mar 22 05:34 |
| oiaohm | If it be suse if its ubuntu fails the breakdown basically never changes. | Mar 22 05:34 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah Suse :( | Mar 22 05:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | simplymepis which is based on debian, its a newbie distro | Mar 22 05:34 |
| sebsebseb | would be interesting opensuse and Ubuntu die or pretty much die at same time | Mar 22 05:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Kanotix was somewhat easy too, based on Debian | Mar 22 05:34 |
| oiaohm | Really you don't understand the effects of deaths. | Mar 22 05:35 |
| oiaohm | One death started debians graphical installer. | Mar 22 05:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what other distro's are based on Debian not Ubuntu, that are for Newbies? | Mar 22 05:35 |
| oiaohm | The scary result is the death of Ubuntu and suse might make debian user friendly. | Mar 22 05:35 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: Knoppix? | Mar 22 05:35 |
| sebsebseb | Ok it's a Live CD | Mar 22 05:35 |
| sebsebseb | ,but you can install onto your hard disk as well | Mar 22 05:36 |
| oiaohm | Remember deaths cause change. | Mar 22 05:36 |
| oiaohm | So looking at what is there now. Is basically going to tell you nothing. | Mar 22 05:36 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: That's a point | Mar 22 05:36 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu dies | Mar 22 05:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Knoppix had this weird installer, and many hacks as it really was meant to run off a live cd only. Not sure what the new versions are like? | Mar 22 05:36 |
| sebsebseb | Debian is more likely to become properly user friendly | Mar 22 05:36 |
| oiaohm | People would have got more skill from using ubuntu so taking on Debian to some of the is possiable. | Mar 22 05:37 |
| sebsebseb | ,but whilst not doing Ubuntu's mistakes | Mar 22 05:37 |
| oiaohm | And that brings the ideas of ubuntu back to debian. | Mar 22 05:37 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: or some other distro will be created similar to Ubuntu, but not with it's mistakes | Mar 22 05:37 |
| oiaohm | Basically death of a distribution is good. | Mar 22 05:37 |
| oiaohm | Seams strange but it is good. | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: times change yeah | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: also yeah | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | this is how it used to be I guess | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | people would | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | find out about distros then pick one | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well that's how it was for me in 2004 | Mar 22 05:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> Basically death of a distribution is good." they we should encourage Jono to have Mark add even more Mono stuff | Mar 22 05:38 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: now days loads of people don't really find out about distros, instead they just go for Ubuntu, since it's the most popular on the desktop at the moment | Mar 22 05:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but its Suse thats in more imediate trouble of dieing right now | Mar 22 05:39 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: Suse dieing will be a good thing I guess | Mar 22 05:39 |
| sebsebseb | Suse users use RPM | Mar 22 05:39 |
| oiaohm | Suse guys have created lot of good things. | Mar 22 05:39 |
| sebsebseb | they will probably want to go to a distro that also uses RPM? | Mar 22 05:39 |
| oiaohm | It would be good to see those upstream and spreed. | Mar 22 05:39 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: most likely return to there parent ie redhat. | Mar 22 05:40 |
| sebsebseb | and the two other popular RPM distros for everyone, Fedora and Mandriva? | Mar 22 05:40 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well Fedora then | Mar 22 05:40 |
| oiaohm | suse branched off from redhat in the first place. | Mar 22 05:40 |
| sebsebseb | since Redhat Linux doesn'st exist anymore | Mar 22 05:40 |
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| sebsebseb | and RHEL is Enterprise | Mar 22 05:40 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: and Fedora is the community version now | Mar 22 05:41 |
| oiaohm | Lot of SUSE users are Enterprise | Mar 22 05:41 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: your on about Suse | Mar 22 05:41 |
| oiaohm | Not home users. | Mar 22 05:41 |
| sebsebseb | I am on about OpenSuse | Mar 22 05:41 |
| sebsebseb | I see OpenSuse as more of a home user distro, but I also don't know much about it | Mar 22 05:41 |
| oiaohm | Even opensuse lot of them are cheep enterprise that cannot afford suse. | Mar 22 05:41 |
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| sebsebseb | Suse itself might die, but OpenSuse is a community one that can live on | Mar 22 05:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | centos could also pick up a few suse users | Mar 22 05:41 |
| sebsebseb | Suse is like Fedora | Mar 22 05:42 |
| sebsebseb | OpenSuse that is | Mar 22 05:42 |
| sebsebseb | if Redhat die, Fedora can still live on | Mar 22 05:42 |
| oiaohm | centos core is basically Fedora | Mar 22 05:42 |
| sebsebseb | if Novell die, OpenSuse can still live on | Mar 22 05:42 |
| oiaohm | Really it does not work that way. sebsebseb | Mar 22 05:42 |
| oiaohm | If you don't have full time developers supporting you die. | Mar 22 05:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its possible suse will live on, but without big funding, its chances of maintaining its current level of membership is not good | Mar 22 05:43 |
| oiaohm | Heck the strangest one the suse guys could end up is on meego | Mar 22 05:43 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: meego? | Mar 22 05:43 |
| oiaohm | meego has intel and nokia behind it. | Mar 22 05:43 |
| sebsebseb | oh the yeah | Mar 22 05:44 |
| sebsebseb | Intel had it's one | Mar 22 05:44 |
| sebsebseb | Nokia had it's | Mar 22 05:44 |
| sebsebseb | then they got together | Mar 22 05:44 |
| sebsebseb | I think I read something, about the one your on about | Mar 22 05:44 |
| oiaohm | Now that would be a scary merge. | Mar 22 05:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Miguel could go to Ubuntu, MS, or maybe Access | Mar 22 05:44 |
| oiaohm | meego and opensuse merging. | Mar 22 05:44 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: Access? | Mar 22 05:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Access co ltd | Mar 22 05:45 |
| oiaohm | That is also another possiablity. | Mar 22 05:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Limo | Mar 22 05:45 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: I don't know who you mean | Mar 22 05:45 |
| oiaohm | when a distribution is left without funding. Mergers have been known to happen. | Mar 22 05:45 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yeah Ubuntu devs will go to Debian if Ubuntu dies | Mar 22 05:45 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Debian will pick up some of the Ubuntu features | Mar 22 05:45 |
| sebsebseb | or maybe well edited versions or something | Mar 22 05:45 |
| sebsebseb | take Softare Centre for example | Mar 22 05:46 |
| Roebot | when have mergers happened? Example? | Mar 22 05:46 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: apparantly Debian was going to maybe use Software Centre anyway. right let's say Ubuntu dies when Software Centre is offering commercial software for people to buy | Mar 22 05:46 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: right well that would be against the Debian philosophey to have such an app in Debian if it offers commercial software for people to buy, however Debian could have an edited version that does not have that feature. | Mar 22 05:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | looking at the distrowatch hits, Fedora and Mint close 2nd and 3rd | Mar 22 05:47 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: people that recommend Mint get at me a bit | Mar 22 05:47 |
| oiaohm | To get to meego there were 4 groups of merges. Roebot. Whitebox forked off from Redhat those developers merged back into fedora. | Mar 22 05:48 |
| sebsebseb | using stuff that is Ubuntu based what's the point? may as well use the real thing, or Debian or something Debain based? or some other distro instead | Mar 22 05:48 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: if Ubuntu is on the verge of dieing, they could probably pick up some of the Mint features | Mar 22 05:48 |
| Roebot | Why would you think Ubuntu is "dying" | Mar 22 05:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well Mint is ubuntu will some of the universe stuff already installed. so some of the work has already been done for you | Mar 22 05:49 |
| sebsebseb | Chips_B_Malroy: it's a bit more then that | Mar 22 05:49 |
| sebsebseb | and not just theme | Mar 22 05:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sure | Mar 22 05:49 |
| oiaohm | quite simple its broken the basic rules that lead to distribution death. Roebot | Mar 22 05:49 |
| Roebot | I'm not familiar with thos | Mar 22 05:49 |
| Roebot | I'm not familiar with those | Mar 22 05:49 |
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| oiaohm | 1) Work effectively with upstream. Failure todo so ends up with broken and unstable packages upsetting users. | Mar 22 05:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | <oiaohm> quite simple its broken the basic rules that lead to distribution death." I don't think its there yet, but I would agree that the direction Mark is taking the distro might be over the cliff if he continues in this | Mar 22 05:50 |
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| oiaohm | 2) Fail to listern to your users requests. ie the I know better attadute that Mark recently displayed. | Mar 22 05:51 |
| oiaohm | 3) Failure to consider legal effects of your distributions actions. | Mar 22 05:51 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: legal effects? | Mar 22 05:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> when Warren base Mepis 6 and 6.5 on ubuntu instead of Debian, we had lots more sound and hardware problems. | Mar 22 05:51 |
| oiaohm | Can you install most of those ubuntu disks if someone lets say placed a legal embargo on the use of mono sebsebseb. | Mar 22 05:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | remember, Canonical is based on the Isle of Man, so software patents have not caught up with it yet | Mar 22 05:53 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Mono patents, that kind of thing you eman | Mar 22 05:53 |
| sebsebseb | mean | Mar 22 05:53 |
| Roebot | How could there be an "illegal imbargo" on mono | Mar 22 05:53 |
| oiaohm | Its key for legal safety that users can choose not to install things. | Mar 22 05:53 |
| sebsebseb | Roebot: sure, but Ubuntu is also in the USA and counteries liket hat with software patents | Mar 22 05:53 |
| Roebot | Right...and Mono is part of an ECMA std. | Mar 22 05:54 |
| Roebot | It's a public standard | Mar 22 05:54 |
| oiaohm | Really simple Roebot it happens in usa imports all the time. Blocked by customs without legal orders back it up. Roebot | Mar 22 05:54 |
| oiaohm | Roebot: idiot | Mar 22 05:54 |
| oiaohm | ECMA does not protect you from patent attack. | Mar 22 05:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if MS has they way you folks in the EU will soon have the benifits of software patents too | Mar 22 05:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, what oiaohm said | Mar 22 05:54 |
| oiaohm | Features implemented by Mono go outside what is in the ECMA standard. Roebot | Mar 22 05:54 |
| Roebot | What patents does Mono infringe? | Mar 22 05:55 |
| Roebot | oiaohm: only with the ASP.net and Winform | Mar 22 05:55 |
| oiaohm | Ask tomtom. They where hammered over some of them. | Mar 22 05:55 |
| oiaohm | And they don't use ASP.net or Winforms | Mar 22 05:55 |
| Roebot | oiaohm: tomtom was "hammered" bc of mono? | Mar 22 05:55 |
| oiaohm | Yep Roebot | Mar 22 05:55 |
| Roebot | hrmm.. oiaohm I hadn't heard that | Mar 22 05:56 |
| oiaohm | When intel refuses to ship something. | Mar 22 05:56 |
| oiaohm | That is also a bad sign. | Mar 22 05:56 |
| Roebot | ASP.net and winform are libs separate from mono core. | Mar 22 05:56 |
| Roebot | Intel doesn't ship mono? | Mar 22 05:57 |
| oiaohm | The mono core is not 100 percent to ECMA | Mar 22 05:57 |
| oiaohm | so not 100 percent protected from patent attack. | Mar 22 05:57 |
| oiaohm | From Microsoft | Mar 22 05:57 |
| Roebot | It isn't? But you said the ECMA std didn't protect from patent law | Mar 22 05:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think Debain moved moonlight into the the restricted debian-multimedia repo. separate from Debian | Mar 22 05:58 |
| oiaohm | The patent protection agreement by MS that will expire soon says if it covered by ECMA they will not attack you. | Mar 22 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Problem is Mono is not even protected by that. Roebot | Mar 22 05:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | because of patent worries | Mar 22 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Failure for MS to provide a proper patent agreement is one of the biggest blockers to the uptake of .net | Mar 22 05:59 |
| Roebot | So, if a company assigns IP to a standards body like ECMA you're saying they can still attack other companies for employing that spec? | Mar 22 05:59 |
| oiaohm | Problem is mono is implementing outside that spec. | Mar 22 05:59 |
| oiaohm | And have to for compadiblity. | Mar 22 06:00 |
| Roebot | You don't think the complexity of development environs and lack of platform independence is the primary deterrent of .NET uptake? | Mar 22 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Lack of platform independance comes from lack of developers to work on the runtime engine. | Mar 22 06:00 |
| Roebot | oiaohm: so you do agree the ECMA std protects from an patent suits? | Mar 22 06:00 |
| oiaohm | No it does not Roebot | Mar 22 06:01 |
| Roebot | Oh. I didn't know that. | Mar 22 06:01 |
| oiaohm | ECMA only protects you if you can implement exactly by standard and it works. | Mar 22 06:01 |
| Roebot | And you don't think Python has any patent entanglements? Or PHP? | Mar 22 06:01 |
| oiaohm | .Net that is not true. | Mar 22 06:01 |
| Roebot | Or Java? | Mar 22 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Python and PHP are a different case. | Mar 22 06:01 |
| Roebot | So they don't have patent entanglements? | Mar 22 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Both of them are mostly protected by prior art. | Mar 22 06:02 |
| oiaohm | from there own source base. | Mar 22 06:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy just had a story yesterday about Miguel complaining about MS and the patents | Mar 22 06:02 |
| Roebot | Did you know NAND is patented | Mar 22 06:02 |
| Roebot | and that's used in every programming lang | Mar 22 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Java was the same class as .Net until sun did a proper patent agreement. | Mar 22 06:03 |
| oiaohm | Ie signed with OIN | Mar 22 06:03 |
| Roebot | But it has patent entanglements with many companies | Mar 22 06:03 |
| satipera | Nand is patented? | Mar 22 06:03 |
| oiaohm | Will that live against prior art. | Mar 22 06:03 |
| oiaohm | Ie most project can prove they were using that over 20 years ago Roebot | Mar 22 06:04 |
| Roebot | probably not. | Mar 22 06:04 |
| oiaohm | So voiding patent | Mar 22 06:04 |
| oiaohm | From there own code bases if you include compliers. | Mar 22 06:04 |
| oiaohm | Patent threats are really limited. | Mar 22 06:04 |
| Roebot | Limited to Mono? | Mar 22 06:04 |
| oiaohm | Mono case is special because mono has not created what they are doing new. | Mar 22 06:05 |
| oiaohm | There are others that can be at risk of that as well. | Mar 22 06:05 |
| Roebot | So PHP was/is original? And so is Python and Java? | Mar 22 06:05 |
| Roebot | And .NET. | Mar 22 06:05 |
| Roebot | ? | Mar 22 06:05 |
| oiaohm | You make something from a spec sheet without checking for patents you end up in the same possiable patent hell. | Mar 22 06:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | net is a ripoff of java | Mar 22 06:06 |
| oiaohm | PHP and Python are both created from nothing languages. | Mar 22 06:06 |
| oiaohm | ,Net is even at risk from patents from Sun. | Mar 22 06:06 |
| Roebot | .NET is a ripoff from Java. Well then wouldn't Java have prior art? | Mar 22 06:06 |
| Roebot | PHP and Python are original then? | Mar 22 06:07 |
| Roebot | And so is Java. But not .NET and Mono? | Mar 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Ever wonder why MS does not attack OpenOffice | Mar 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Simple fact if they do they will be held to account over .Net patents | Mar 22 06:07 |
| Roebot | Interesting theory. | Mar 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Not a theory. | Mar 22 06:07 |
| oiaohm | It a matter of public record by the X ceo of SUN. | Mar 22 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Open source projects are safe from those patents. | Mar 22 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Due to those being at OIN disposal | Mar 22 06:08 |
| Roebot | I missed that. Seems like MS Office does a pretty tidy business even with OpenOffice. | Mar 22 06:08 |
| oiaohm | MS tried attacking sun over patents with OpenOffice | Mar 22 06:08 |
| Roebot | I read that Microsoft is sued more than any other company on patents. | Mar 22 06:08 |
| oiaohm | They wanted sun to pay per download. | Mar 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | So sun wanted MS to pay for ever bit of patented tech MS has breached. | Mar 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | Of Sun's | Mar 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | MS decided it would be wise to walk away. | Mar 22 06:09 |
| satipera | Patent assured destruction | Mar 22 06:09 |
| oiaohm | O yep. | Mar 22 06:10 |
| Roebot | Wow. That should have made a lot of news. | Mar 22 06:10 |
| oiaohm | Thinking sun still hold patents over the SMB protocal. | Mar 22 06:10 |
| oiaohm | the way MS shares files and printers. | Mar 22 06:10 |
| oiaohm | Basically of orcale decides to put Ms out of business with the aquirement of sun they can. | Mar 22 06:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | OpenOffice is safe in other ways as well. MS Word or excel is not the first word processor or spreadsheet made. they is quite a bit of prior art out there from older programs | Mar 22 06:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | *there | Mar 22 06:13 |
| Roebot | oiaohm: are you a programmer? | Mar 22 06:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Speaking of an all-powerful central government: When do we get our habeas corpus back? | Mar 22 06:14 | |
| oiaohm | sun too the simple solution we have bigger guns. Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 22 06:14 |
| oiaohm | too/took | Mar 22 06:14 |
| *WireWulf-away is now known as WireWulf | Mar 22 06:14 | |
| oiaohm | Mostly internal and expermental stuff Roebot | Mar 22 06:15 |
| Roebot | Are there any computer scientists in this IRC channel? | Mar 22 06:15 |
| oiaohm | I am techincally. Roebot | Mar 22 06:15 |
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| Roebot | You studied CS? | Mar 22 06:15 |
| WireWulf | heh | Mar 22 06:15 |
| oiaohm | Yep Roebot | Mar 22 06:15 |
| Roebot | Where? | Mar 22 06:15 |
| oiaohm | Thinking I don't work using it. | Mar 22 06:16 |
| oiaohm | As I said techincally. | Mar 22 06:17 |
| Roebot | Just wondering if anyone active here is a Comp Scientist. | Mar 22 06:17 |
| Roebot | You know, studied languages. Theory. Mathematics of CS. etc | Mar 22 06:17 |
| oiaohm | Data recovery is more likely to pay my bills than computer scientiest stuff. | Mar 22 06:17 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot of theory to the CS stuff. | Mar 22 06:18 |
| Roebot | So you didn't study compilers, operating systems, comp arch, computation theory, etc...? | Mar 22 06:18 |
| oiaohm | Most of it pays poorly. | Mar 22 06:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I did that, but I would not call myself a programar | Mar 22 06:18 |
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| tessier | CS is for people who want to be scientsts. Not programmers. | Mar 22 06:18 |
| oiaohm | I studied complier operating systems and comp arch. They are useful to data recovery. | Mar 22 06:18 |
| Roebot | Interesting theory tessier . | Mar 22 06:18 |
| tessier | A bunch of it is useful to programmers though. | Mar 22 06:18 |
| oiaohm | computation theory and lot of other theorys are not that useful. | Mar 22 06:19 |
| satipera | Roebot reference your earlier remark about nand patents, as long as maths or logic can be described in hardware terms is it patentable? | Mar 22 06:19 |
| tessier | Roebot: Getting a degree in CS and then cranking out java hoping it doesn't get sent to India must suck. | Mar 22 06:19 |
| tessier | I'm talking about being a code monkey. If you code and do CS relevant stuff that is different. | Mar 22 06:19 |
| Roebot | Well, if you had studied CS wouldn't assert that PHP, Python and Java are entirely original programming languages. | Mar 22 06:20 |
| tessier | I have and I don't. | Mar 22 06:20 |
| oiaohm | LOL Roebot | Mar 22 06:20 |
| Roebot | And you would have a much better understanding of open standards, patents and language runtimes. | Mar 22 06:20 |
| tessier | Algol 60 all over again. Yeay. | Mar 22 06:20 |
| oiaohm | I was answering from legal Roebot | Mar 22 06:21 |
| oiaohm | That if you studied CS you had to have failed or your UNI was poor at it. | Mar 22 06:21 |
| tessier | I wish more people would take Lisp, Prolog, etc. Neat stuff. There is a lot more to programming than C style languages. | Mar 22 06:21 |
| oiaohm | Style of langange does not make it a independant work so safe from patents. | Mar 22 06:22 |
| oiaohm | That is is a truly origninal program language ie source of it created from stract not using any docs under 20 years old. | Mar 22 06:22 |
| oiaohm | Then is a original language from the point of view of law section. | Mar 22 06:22 |
| oiaohm | Legal section of my CS course I did the best in Roebot | Mar 22 06:23 |
| Roebot | oiaohm: all those languages' constructs were conceived in academia first. | Mar 22 06:23 |
| Roebot | oiaohm: where did you study? | Mar 22 06:23 |
| Roebot | you didn't say | Mar 22 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Australia | Mar 22 06:23 |
| oiaohm | You are going back before legal importance. | Mar 22 06:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | gn all | Mar 22 06:24 |
| Roebot | What University? | Mar 22 06:24 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] @eduvid moreover, Open Standards are more important then free software ! So i do not bother about term, (as long as i use 4 freedoms) | Mar 22 06:24 | |
| oiaohm | Ie constructs from over 20 years ago are not important when you are talking legal. | Mar 22 06:24 |
| oiaohm | Import when talking history of languages. | Mar 22 06:24 |
| Roebot | they aren't prior art? | Mar 22 06:24 |
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| oiaohm | important. | Mar 22 06:24 |
| oiaohm | Prior art is only really usable if it linked to your project. | Mar 22 06:25 |
| Roebot | Wow! oiaohm you really don't know what you're talking about. | Mar 22 06:25 |
| oiaohm | Ie legal is different to background history of a language. | Mar 22 06:25 |
| Roebot | night all. | Mar 22 06:26 |
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| oiaohm | I am talking about winning case. | Mar 22 06:26 |
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| WireWulf | i think they bothwere idiots but heh what do i know | Mar 22 06:28 |
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| *satipera (~satiperaq@78.147.219.90) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving") | Mar 22 06:40 | |
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| DaemonFC | http://blueindiana.net/diary/4592/governor-daniels-signs-bringyourgunstowork-bill | Mar 22 06:42 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Blue Indiana:: Governor Daniels signs bring-your-guns-to-work bill .::. Size~: 76.82 KB | Mar 22 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Mar 22 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | "The law, which takes effect July 1, lets workers keep guns locked out of sight in their vehicles while parked on their employers' property." | Mar 22 06:43 |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: al law already lets you do that unless the company makes you sign something saying otherwise | Mar 22 06:44 |
| DaemonFC | wrong | Mar 22 06:44 |
| DaemonFC | You have to leave if the owner of the property doesn't want you there with a gun | Mar 22 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | this law gives you the right to bring a loaded gun onto private property of your employer | Mar 22 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | and they can't say anything about it | Mar 22 06:45 |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: own emploier i have issues with that is walmart | Mar 22 06:45 |
| satipera | What is this fascination with firearms? Do not understand it | Mar 22 06:46 |
| WireWulf | satipera: out in the country where i live a firearm is protection | Mar 22 06:46 |
| WireWulf | i mean country as in unindustural america | Mar 22 06:47 |
| satipera | One of the top ten laws of the internet is do not discuss guns with an nra person | Mar 22 06:47 |
| WireWulf | i do not like the NRA | Mar 22 06:47 |
| WireWulf | lobbist are stupid | Mar 22 06:47 |
| WireWulf | i just like to use my 2nd admendment rights in the country | Mar 22 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart has never said anything to me about walking around with a loaded gun in their store :) | Mar 22 06:48 |
| enthymeme | in fact, you arguably shouldn't enter a walmart without a loaded weapon. | Mar 22 06:49 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @satipera lol...yeah, its because Im too lazy...been looking now though...think i'll go with BT package. You just watch me! :) | Mar 22 06:49 | |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: they told me not to carry one in wail working | Mar 22 06:49 |
| satipera | yes sure Goblin I wil believe it when it happens | Mar 22 06:49 |
| satipera | :) | Mar 22 06:50 |
| DaemonFC | that's different | Mar 22 06:50 |
| DaemonFC | they have the right to tell you what to do while you're on the clock | Mar 22 06:50 |
| DaemonFC | how to dress | Mar 22 06:50 |
| *enthymeme has quit (Quit: *thud*) | Mar 22 06:50 | |
| DaemonFC | demand that you censor yourself when there's a dickhead customer screaming at you | Mar 22 06:51 |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: lol thats the reason i got fired from that post :P | Mar 22 06:51 |
| DaemonFC | abusive customers can walk up to you and do damned near anything and you can't say anything about it | Mar 22 06:51 |
| WireWulf | weil that and punching a dick head boss | Mar 22 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | I had one that walked in when I was still an hourly | Mar 22 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | he was drunk | Mar 22 06:52 |
| DaemonFC | and he pissed right in the middle of the aisle in frozen foods | Mar 22 06:52 |
| *WireWulf is happy not to be working at walmart anymore | Mar 22 06:53 | |
| WireWulf | :P | Mar 22 06:53 |
| DaemonFC | even as a manager you can't tell them off | Mar 22 06:53 |
| DaemonFC | you can tell them to leave or you're calling the cops | Mar 22 06:53 |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: as i said i have issues with my managers probly why i am unemployed atm | Mar 22 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | What sucks is that as middle management, you're constantly being vetoed | Mar 22 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | several times where I fired someone and the store or district manager hired them right back | Mar 22 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | put them on another shift though | Mar 22 06:54 |
| DaemonFC | one of them told the DM that he was in the hospital and that's why he was out and no call no show | Mar 22 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | she didn't even ask for proof | Mar 22 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | next day, back to work | Mar 22 06:56 |
| DaemonFC | it sucks when you have upper management vetoing things you do | Mar 22 06:57 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Tonight I will leave for ShriGangaNagar for #olpc deployment #india | Mar 22 06:57 | |
| DaemonFC | undermines your authority | Mar 22 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | "If mom says no, ask dad" is basically carrying over to the workplace | Mar 22 06:57 |
| DaemonFC | keep asking different managers until one gives you the answer you want | Mar 22 06:58 |
| satipera | Daemon the moral of your story is take work seriously until you are banging your head against a brick wall then pretend to take it seriously | Mar 22 07:00 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin I can't complain about mine I am getting 6.5Mb download regular occasionally higher, they say I should only get 3.6 on 8 max so win | Mar 22 07:07 | |
| satipera | Okay I am a tech idiot how did my tweet appear here? | Mar 22 07:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | magic. | Mar 22 07:09 |
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| satipera | Cheers Diablo for that techy answer | Mar 22 07:11 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] mouseover hyperlink popup is the most user-UN-friendly thing over website. Do not know why website use them #unabletoscroll | Mar 22 07:17 | |
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| Omar87 | Hi all. | Mar 22 07:20 |
| Omar87 | So, it seems as though Ubuntu is no longer what its name indicates, huh? -_- | Mar 22 07:21 |
| satipera | I can only remember what the name means loosely, please elaborate | Mar 22 07:22 |
| Omar87 | satipera, I mean the term Ubuntu simply means: "I am what am because of who we all are" Or "Generosity and sharing.. freedom.. etc." | Mar 22 07:25 |
| Omar87 | But what I can see from the Ubuntu community is almost the total opposite. | Mar 22 07:26 |
| Omar87 | Thousands of people are upset after some of the decision made by the Ubuntu dev team (Most importantly, the Mono infection), but all these complaints have fallen on deaf ears. | Mar 22 07:27 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Charlie Wolf on the telly complete with stars and stripes lapel badge, slagging off the newly passed health bill. | Mar 22 07:28 | |
| Diablo-D3 | satipera: btw, apparently the twitter bot is now following your twitters. | Mar 22 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | you must have said something Roy liked | Mar 22 07:28 |
| Omar87 | Hundreds of complaints have been raised asking the Ubuntu dev team to dump mono, but they were all ignored. | Mar 22 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ubuntu is a Microsoft scam | Mar 22 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ive been saying this for awhile | Mar 22 07:29 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, it makes me sad. | Mar 22 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | it makes me lol | Mar 22 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | the harder microsoft tries to waste money the... uh... more money they will waste | Mar 22 07:30 |
| *Diablo-D3 was going somewhere witty with that, really! | Mar 22 07:30 | |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, I'm trying to find another decent distro that respects itself. | Mar 22 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: debian | Mar 22 07:30 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, really? | Mar 22 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | which Ive been using longer than 99% of people have been using linux. | Mar 22 07:30 |
| satipera | Diablo I thought I was just sounding of into the void did not realise it was coming here, how can you tell about twitter bots? | Mar 22 07:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | satipera: anyone can follow you. | Mar 22 07:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | Roy has his bot setup to repeat specific people into here | Mar 22 07:31 |
| satipera | I see | Mar 22 07:32 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source http://post.ly/UXCW | Mar 22 07:33 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source - LUG@IITD Community Blog .::. Size~: 27 KB | Mar 22 07:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | the bot also follows me on identica | Mar 22 07:33 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Nice work, @BarackObama, nice work. :-) | Mar 22 07:34 | |
| Diablo-D3 | like, watch this | Mar 22 07:35 |
| *Diablo-D3 hits the bot with a bat | Mar 22 07:36 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Obama got the Healthcare bill passed. The bill may suck, but its better than letting the #Republicans continue on long after #Bush | Mar 22 07:37 | |
| Diablo-D3 | tada. | Mar 22 07:37 |
| satipera | As usual I live and learn | Mar 22 07:38 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] RT: @eduvid: Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source http://post.ly/UXCW #foss #opensource #india #redhat | Mar 22 07:40 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Uncut Video of Venkatesh Hariharan (RedHat) on His Journey of Open Source - LUG@IITD Community Blog .::. Size~: 26.87 KB | Mar 22 07:40 |
| Omar87 | Okay guys, here's something interesting for you. Go to http://www.wikileaks.org/ and check out the post number "24". | Mar 22 07:40 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 41.75 KB | Mar 22 07:40 |
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| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: uh, there is no post numbes | Mar 22 07:41 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, slide down. | Mar 22 07:41 |
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| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, You'll find them, I'm sure. | Mar 22 07:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, there are _dates_ | Mar 22 07:41 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Government Cronyism Watch: #Microsoft Inside FCC, California, Washington, and #Bahrain http://ur1.ca/r2b0 | Mar 22 07:42 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Government Cronyism Watch: Microsoft Inside FCC, California, Washington, and Bahrain | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.74 KB | Mar 22 07:42 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, there are numbers too, just keep going down. | Mar 22 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | I cant go down any farther! | Mar 22 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | there is no post 24! | Mar 22 07:42 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Mar 22 07:42 | |
| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: 24. Feb. 2010. is a date! | Mar 22 07:43 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: okay... sorry. My mistake. | Mar 22 07:43 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, yes, that's it. | Mar 22 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | we're all quite aware of the Cryptome incident | Mar 22 07:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | Slashdot covered it already | Mar 22 07:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Uncut Video of Shabrish - explaining IT@School Kerala #foss #freesoftware #ict http://bit.ly/c5Rt7Q | Mar 22 07:47 | |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, so MS's been "spying" on it's users for what is claimed to be "Law Enforcement purposes"? | Mar 22 07:47 |
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| Omar87 | Or what's the matter exactly? | Mar 22 07:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: basically. | Mar 22 07:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | but only if you use microsoft services. | Mar 22 07:47 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, of course. | Mar 22 07:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | which no one does | Mar 22 07:48 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Uncut Videos of Guru explaining Public Software http://bit.ly/cqjn0e & http://bit.ly/cmpZxg #foss #video #publicsoftware | Mar 22 07:48 | |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, wait, what do you mean no one does? | Mar 22 07:48 |
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| Diablo-D3 | Omar87: until this came up, I wasnt aware microsoft even had services outside of msn chat and hotmail | Mar 22 07:48 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, I see. | Mar 22 07:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know why microsoft is doomed? | Mar 22 07:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | no one actually gives a shit about them. | Mar 22 07:49 |
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| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, I wish what you just said was 100% true. | Mar 22 07:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | the people who do, no one cares about _them_ | Mar 22 07:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres a huge "we just dont have fucking time to baby sit microsoft shit" movement going on | Mar 22 07:51 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, I know people who are basically dying to get a job and Microzeft ("Zeft" = "Junk" In Arabic) | Mar 22 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | you mean _at_ Microsoft? | Mar 22 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | who cares | Mar 22 07:52 |
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| Diablo-D3 | hell, even I'd work there if they'd pay me enough | Mar 22 07:52 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, yes, *at* Microzeft. | Mar 22 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | seriously | Mar 22 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | Bill could call me up right this second | Mar 22 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | and offer me a job | Mar 22 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd probably take it | Mar 22 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | and Im the most vocal Microsoft hater on the planet | Mar 22 07:53 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, well, it's never been about money for me. | Mar 22 07:54 |
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| Diablo-D3 | Im not going to work for them for free. | Mar 22 07:54 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3: aside from money, there's something called "Ethics", ya know. | Mar 22 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ethics doesnt come into this | Mar 22 07:54 |
| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, oh sure it does. | Mar 22 07:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | In fact, if anything, any software I'm assigned to would instantly get better overnight. | Mar 22 07:55 |
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| Diablo-D3 | imagine a world where microsoft stops shoveling shit | Mar 22 07:55 |
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| Omar87 | Diablo-D3, it sure would have been a much peaceful world. | Mar 22 07:57 |
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| Diablo-D3 | oh well, Microsoft is dead. | Mar 22 08:01 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Make a Difference: Ada Lovelace Day - http://is.gd/aSzhK #equality show your support! #womeninopensource #ubuntu #gender | Mar 22 08:03 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon Is Ubuntu no longer what it indicates is it? | Mar 22 08:04 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Charlie wolf update. He described Rachel Corrie, an American peace activist who had been killed by an Israeli military bulldozer, as scum. | Mar 22 08:09 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon Is Ubuntu no longer what its name indicates it is? | Mar 22 08:09 | |
| *WireWulf is now known as WireWulf-away | Mar 22 08:11 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] @Omar_S_Hafez: eh? | Mar 22 08:12 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon I mean Ubuntu is supposed to be a distro by the community and for the community. But somehow the truth doesn't seem that way. | Mar 22 08:15 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] FOSSJobs.in is the number one Indian job website related to Free and Open Source ! http://fossjobs.in/ #foss #jobs #top #india #opensource | Mar 22 08:18 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon Lots of voices have been shouting about many issues in the Ubuntu distro. (E.g, Mono, left-side buttons.. etc). but to no avail. | Mar 22 08:18 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon do think there's an explanation for that? | Mar 22 08:19 | |
| Omar87 | Is Mandriva as heavy as I think it is? | Mar 22 08:20 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Pretty stoked, Jonathan Ross (@Wossy), one of my fave celebs over in Blighty re-tweeted about Ada Lovelace Day - what a legend. :-) | Mar 22 08:22 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] @Omar_S_Hafez: I think Ubuntu absolutely still stands by it's ethos. :-) | Mar 22 08:23 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon I personally believe Ubuntu is no longer an Ubuntu, imho. Or at least the Microsoft version of "Ubuntu". -_- | Mar 22 08:28 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] @jonobacon I personally believe Ubuntu is no longer an Ubuntu, imho. Or at least the Microsoft definition of "Ubuntu". -_- | Mar 22 08:29 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] For those who are totally new to FOSS - GNUbie - http://shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/gnubie.html from zero to top | Mar 22 08:39 | |
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| oiaohm | http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/340272/ncomputing_chip_brings_windows_applications_tvs/ Guess this is the only way MS can fight the incoming wall. | Mar 22 08:58 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] The last you will hear from me today about Charlie Wolf http://is.gd/aSChd | Mar 22 09:01 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] In Fight Against #Google , #Microsoft Adopts #China Strategy http://ur1.ca/r2p2 #communism #censorship #linux | Mar 22 09:04 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] ACS:Law - Back in the news again! http://tinyurl.com/ya6atwj #acs:law #acslaw #p2p #file sharing #bittorrent #piratebay #tpb | Mar 22 09:09 | |
| oiaohm | http://www.koffice.org/news/koffice-2-2-beta-1/ Yes kexi will be back soon | Mar 22 09:10 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] Regarding Linux Install Mela - Delhi Jamia 27 march 2010 http://post.ly/UYOa | Mar 22 09:41 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] A Republican on the consequences of "overheated talk" and failure to compromise: http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo | Mar 22 09:48 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Proxy Fights Against #Google in the United States http://ur1.ca/r3ak #myTriggers #lobby #washington #yahoo | Mar 22 10:05 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Curious how #OSX 10.5 runs on #Powerbook #G4 with 512MB of RAM? Trust me, it's no picnic. Had to remove faulty 1GB DIMM. #firstworldproblems | Mar 22 10:20 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #VMware ’s Parent Company Promotes #Microsoft Exchange, So What About #Zimbra ? http://boycottnovell.com/2010/03/22/ex-sofies-and-zimbra/ | Mar 22 10:30 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Just bought my ticket for the Rathole Radio Gig http://bit.ly/cqvp8o on 30th April,the night before #oggcamp ! Rock on! | Mar 22 10:54 | |
| schestowitz | tessier: are you around? | Mar 22 10:56 |
| schestowitz | The server seems to have fallen asleep, I'll try to restart apache | Mar 22 10:56 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] I kicked off "phoronix-test-suite cpu" on a machine I'm testing for @uupc. It's still downloading stuff now, 12 hours later :S | Mar 22 11:14 | |
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| oiaohm | http://kolabsys.com/ Remember what I said about death of distrobutions making the reset of the distrobutions stronger. Same applies to groupware schestowitz | Mar 22 11:57 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Novell rejects 'inadequate' $2B takeover bid from hedge fund. > http://tinyurl.com/ye5woo7 | Mar 22 12:01 | |
| Omar87 | Where's PhIRC? | Mar 22 12:04 |
| *WireWulf-away is now known as WireWulf | Mar 22 12:18 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, ping. | Mar 22 12:40 |
| WireWulf | weee | Mar 22 12:43 |
| WireWulf | someone just fucking shoot me | Mar 22 12:43 |
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| phIRCe-BNc | Hello World! | Mar 22 12:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: freenode: frequently-asked questions .::. Size~: 74.26 KB | Mar 22 12:57 |
| *schestowitz throws a pillow at WireWulf | Mar 22 12:58 | |
| WireWulf | wtf a pillow | Mar 22 12:58 |
| *WireWulf is now known as WireWulf-away | Mar 22 13:00 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] A question for the people of Jordan: "Ever wondered why Microsoft's clowns are much more active in YU than in JUST?" | Mar 22 13:03 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, ping. :) | Mar 22 13:03 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 22 13:08 |
| schestowitz | WireWulf-away: a pillow full of rocks | Mar 22 13:08 |
| schestowitz | The rocks though are made of felt | Mar 22 13:08 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I'm planning on giving a couple lectures about Software Freedom in my college soon. | Mar 22 13:09 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, can you please help me a little with the material? | Mar 22 13:09 |
| *omar_ (~omar@79.173.255.164) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 13:13 | |
| MinceR | geekings | Mar 22 13:14 |
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| *omar_ is now known as Omar87 | Mar 22 13:18 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Tried out VDR and surprised how quick/easy it is to get up and running http://www.linuxtv.org/vdrwiki/index.php/Main_Page | Mar 22 13:19 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: VDR Wiki .::. Size~: 19.46 KB | Mar 22 13:19 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft and #Apple Still Intend to Use Software Patents Against #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/r4ij #swpats #europe #google | Mar 22 13:20 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, are you there? | Mar 22 13:20 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft and Apple Still Intend to Use Software Patents Against GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.23 KB | Mar 22 13:20 |
| schestowitz |  | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | [13:09] <Omar87> schestowitz, I'm planning on giving a couple lectures about Software Freedom in my college soon. | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | [13:09] <Omar87> schestowitz, can you please help me a little with the material? | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | sure. | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Excellent. | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Talk about the merits of FOSS | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | And success stories | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | use "Google" | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Now as a search engine I mean.... as an example of how a company can be as big as Microsoft within 10 years thanks to GNU and Linux | Mar 22 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Show students in Jordan that really successful businesses come from Linux hackers | Mar 22 13:22 |
| schestowitz | Facebook it all LAMP | Mar 22 13:22 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, but I think I should first talk a little about the philosophy of it. | Mar 22 13:22 |
| schestowitz | Don't sell based on how corrupt Microsoft is | Mar 22 13:22 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: depends on the audience | Mar 22 13:22 |
| schestowitz | If you speak to developers/general public | Mar 22 13:23 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I agree. I should advocate Freedom instead of just attack Microsoft. | Mar 22 13:24 |
| Omar87 | Yes. | Mar 22 13:24 |
| oiaohm | I guess MS has not worked out the few problems with using patents against open source. | Mar 22 13:24 |
| Omar87 | Most of the audience will be general public. | Mar 22 13:24 |
| oiaohm | 1 open source the source code is a matter of public record. | Mar 22 13:25 |
| oiaohm | So prior art can be taken from the source code itself. | Mar 22 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Closed source companies don't have that protection. | Mar 22 13:25 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, currently they begging people to buy their crappy new OS. http://microsoftfeed.com/2010/free-windows-7-ultimate-giveaway/ | Mar 22 13:25 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Free Windows 7 Ultimate Giveaway! | MicrosoftFeed .::. Size~: 36.1 KB | Mar 22 13:25 |
| Omar87 | they *are* begging... | Mar 22 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Next problem is not only prior art. Open source can use the really rare parall development clause as well. | Mar 22 13:27 |
| oiaohm | On top of the I did not do it protection method. | Mar 22 13:27 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Bluefish 2.0 seems pretty cool! http://bit.ly/cXAOPF | Mar 22 13:28 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bluefish 2.0 | WebDevOnLinux .::. Size~: 38.45 KB | Mar 22 13:28 |
| oiaohm | The big reason prior art does not work in closed source patent cases is how to you prove your developers knew about the prior art and were not coping from the patent holder. | Mar 22 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Really I want to see a few open source patent cases open up. | Mar 22 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Because some of the losses Open Source can cause due to its open source nature would scare the crap out of some of these agressive companies. | Mar 22 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Hmm did MS ever give away copies of XP in competitions. | Mar 22 13:30 |
| oiaohm | The legal side is also good thing to talk about. | Mar 22 13:31 |
| schestowitz | [13:26] <Omar87> they *are* begging... | Mar 22 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Lot of cases open source is one of the few defences against patent attacks small developers have. | Mar 22 13:32 |
| schestowitz | Like a fisherman begs for the big fish to eat his bait | Mar 22 13:32 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, exactly. | Mar 22 13:32 |
| schestowitz | "Come on, fishie... here's some food for ya! :-D" | Mar 22 13:33 |
| oiaohm | More like MS use to be a fisher man with a big net. | Mar 22 13:33 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I think you guys should rename your website to Microsoft_Spoon_Feed. @Microsoft_Feed | Mar 22 13:33 | |
| oiaohm | MS has lost there net now is resorting to small hooks. | Mar 22 13:33 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Mar 22 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Companies that are doing well in the market don't need to give away freebies. | Mar 22 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Ie you don't see adobe handing out free copies of photoshop. | Mar 22 13:34 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, treating their customers as beggars. | Mar 22 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Ok don't need to give away freebies without getting something worth while in return. | Mar 22 13:39 |
| oiaohm | In the case of fedora redhat got a huge debuging team they would not be able to aford other wise. | Mar 22 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically I see no major direct pay off for MS. | Mar 22 13:39 |
| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODA4OA The community fight back has begin. | Mar 22 13:40 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] Nexuiz Gets Forked, Turned Into Xonotic .::. Size~: 16.62 KB | Mar 22 13:40 |
| oiaohm | My rules of projects never change. | Mar 22 13:42 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, actually that's because Red Hat will get sued if they don't release they work back to the community. | Mar 22 13:42 |
| oiaohm | No legally they did not have to release binarys to the community. Omar87 | Mar 22 13:42 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, both Red Hat and Fedora are open. But Fedora is more for the community, and Red Hat is dedicated to the corporate side of the world. | Mar 22 13:43 |
| oiaohm | For many years they were fully legal and did not Omar87 | Mar 22 13:43 |
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| oiaohm | Ie pre 2000 Redhat played a very closed game Omar87 | Mar 22 13:43 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, closed game? | Mar 22 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Binaries only to people with valid versions. Omar87 | Mar 22 13:44 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, I see. | Mar 22 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Source for everyone else. | Mar 22 13:44 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, yeah, that's what I'm talking about. | Mar 22 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Fedora was to help redhat with there development speed. | Mar 22 13:45 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, they have to release the source, at least. | Mar 22 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Releasing proto type binaries to the public for nothing protected their main product from a lot of issues. | Mar 22 13:45 |
| oiaohm | RHEL is still subscription only binaries. | Mar 22 13:45 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, I see. | Mar 22 13:46 |
| Omar87 | But the source is accessible to everyone. | Mar 22 13:46 |
| *Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 13:46 | |
| oiaohm | RHEL exact source you have to put in requests if you don't have subscription as legally allowed by GPL. | Mar 22 13:47 |
| oiaohm | So its not what you call a fully open game. Omar87 | Mar 22 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Redhat plays perfectly by the rules. | Mar 22 13:47 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, I can understand it because Red Hat is a for-profit corporation. | Mar 22 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Redhat even goes above and beyond the rules by upstreaming as much as they can. | Mar 22 13:48 |
| Omar87 | upstreaming? | Mar 22 13:48 |
| oiaohm | To projects like gcc samba and so on of fixes. Omar87 | Mar 22 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Ie making sure the lead developers of those projects know what they are doing. | Mar 22 13:49 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, in otherwords, they give back to the community. | Mar 22 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Upstreaming is a little bit more involved its part giving back to the community. | Mar 22 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Part helping to run the communities | Mar 22 13:50 |
| Omar87 | oiaohm, I see. | Mar 22 13:50 |
| oiaohm | GPL has no requirement that you return you changes to the project it came form. | Mar 22 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Basically what redhat does goes past what they are legally required todo. | Mar 22 13:51 |
| oiaohm | But early on redhat did make mistakes of only doing what they legally had to. | Mar 22 13:52 |
| oiaohm | There is what you legally have todo. And what saves you money long term. | Mar 22 13:53 |
| oiaohm | studing the first 6 years of redhat existance shows a lot of important leasons about dealing with open source effectively. | Mar 22 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Particularly what not to try todo. | Mar 22 13:54 |
| oiaohm | I should write a book. How to destroy your own distribtion or open source project in 20 simple steps. | Mar 22 13:54 |
| cubezzz | just go LFS | Mar 22 13:58 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Hypocrisy is a very bad attitude. @Microsoft_Feed | Mar 22 13:58 | |
| cubezzz | I find the biggest problem is hardware that isn't documented | Mar 22 13:58 |
| cubezzz | then no one can easily write a driver | Mar 22 13:58 |
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| cubezzz | I can't get too excited about what any distro is doing | Mar 22 13:58 |
| *Ender2070_ (~Ender2070@bas1-brampton13-1279591956.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 13:58 | |
| cubezzz | this is the year I break completely out of wintel | Mar 22 13:59 |
| cubezzz | maybe even get one of those iyonix systems used somewhere | Mar 22 13:59 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The truth about the #Republicans failing to get anythng useful done for the past 9 months http://ur1.ca/r4qd | Mar 22 14:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Comments | House Passes Massive Medical Insurance Bill, 219-212 .::. Size~: 44.01 KB | Mar 22 14:02 |
| MinceR | are those still produced? | Mar 22 14:03 |
| cubezzz | no | Mar 22 14:03 |
| cubezzz | but there's still this: | Mar 22 14:03 |
| cubezzz | http://www.advantage6.co.uk/products/A9home.html | Mar 22 14:03 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Advantage6: The A9home .::. Size~: 7.45 KB | Mar 22 14:03 |
| cubezzz | umm actually | Mar 22 14:06 |
| cubezzz | not positive if they are still for sale either | Mar 22 14:06 |
| cubezzz | I guess it's used zaurus or netwalker then | Mar 22 14:12 |
| cubezzz | I _know_ those exist :) | Mar 22 14:12 |
| cubezzz | should be able to find a C1000 for about $300 for used | Mar 22 14:12 |
| *omar_ (~omar@86.108.86.219) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 14:20 | |
| *Omar87 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Mar 22 14:22 | |
| *Disconnected (Connection timed out). | Mar 22 14:40 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 22 14:40:08 2010 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 22 14:40:46 2010 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Mar 22 14:40 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Mar 22 14:40 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Nov 29 20:53:52 2009 | Mar 22 14:40 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Mar 22 14:40 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Coca-cola liable to pay damages worth 216 crore in rupees : http://tinyurl.com/yhrk5bq #badcoke #waterday #kerala | Mar 22 14:42 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Hindu : States / Kerala : Coca-Cola liable to pay damages worth Rs. 216.26 crore .::. Size~: 35.34 KB | Mar 22 14:42 |
| oiaohm | There is some that targets routers cubezzz | Mar 22 14:44 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 22 14:46 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gates Foundation Roundup: (Mis)Education With Spin; #GAVI , #Pfizer , #Merck , and the African Ventures http://ur1.ca/r4zy | Mar 22 14:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gates Foundation Roundup: (Mis)Education With Spin; GAVI, Pfizer, Merck, and the African Ventures | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 133.49 KB | Mar 22 14:47 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] throws a fork bomb on his identi.ca/facebook/twitter followers: ":(){ :|:& };:" | Mar 22 14:57 | |
| schestowitz | [14:26] <cubezzz> you just don't see arm devices around much | Mar 22 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I have a post about that coming | Mar 22 14:59 |
| schestowitz | BN has two posts mentioning the bitdefender thing | Mar 22 15:00 |
| schestowitz | That Gates post was exhausive to do | Mar 22 15:00 |
| schestowitz | *exhausting | Mar 22 15:00 |
| schestowitz | Canadians might find it interesting. In recent weeks we had thousands of people reading the index of articles about the Gates Foundation | Mar 22 15:01 |
| schestowitz | So the word spreads | Mar 22 15:01 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmmm... logger fell off | Mar 22 15:05 |
| schestowitz | [14:20] --> omar_ has joined this channel (~omar@86.108.86.219). | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:22] <-- Omar87 has left this server (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:26] <cubezzz> you just don't see arm devices around much | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:26] <cubezzz> not in stores, not in ebay | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:26] <cubezzz> I should say laptop like devices | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:27] [Notice] -BNi to #boycottnovell- [sagarun/@sagarun] The rise and fall of MySQL: http://tinyurl.com/y85hvlo /via @glynmoody | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:27] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 39.81 KB | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:29] --> Aondo_ has joined this channel (stian@193.71.154.133). | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:32] <oiaohm> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Google-releases-web-security-scanner-960081.html << I think you better get this schestowitz | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:33] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Google releases web security scanner - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 35.52 KB | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:34] <-- schestowitz_log has left this server (*.net *.split). | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:34] <-- Aondo has left this server (*.net *.split). | Mar 22 15:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 39.81 KB | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:37] <oiaohm> http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/BitDefender-update-cripples-Windows-computers-960334.html Who said you anti-virus is friendly. | Mar 22 15:06 |
| schestowitz | [14:37] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: BitDefender update cripples Windows computers - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.62 KB | Mar 22 15:07 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google releases web security scanner - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 35.52 KB | Mar 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | [14:39] <cubezzz> virus scanners.... | Mar 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | [14:40] <cubezzz> just imagine how little arm linux malware there must be | Mar 22 15:07 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BitDefender update cripples Windows computers - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.62 KB | Mar 22 15:07 |
| *omar_ is now known as Omar87 | Mar 22 15:07 | |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, what's wrong? | Mar 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Sorry about that, had to paste that for logs not to have gaps | Mar 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | The loggers miss those | Mar 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: are you making a presentation? | Mar 22 15:07 |
| schestowitz | Some stuff is reusable | Mar 22 15:08 |
| schestowitz | You can take someone's shareable slides and modify them with attribution to the original | Mar 22 15:08 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, yes. I'm planning on giving a series of lectures. | Mar 22 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Your queen uses FOSS | Mar 22 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Her site... | Mar 22 15:10 |
| *Aondo_ is now known as Aondo | Mar 22 15:10 | |
| schestowitz | Or was it pricess? | Mar 22 15:10 |
| schestowitz | *princess | Mar 22 15:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, yeah, I know that. | Mar 22 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe she can present with you. | Mar 22 15:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, queen | Mar 22 15:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, no, I don't think she has the time. :) | Mar 22 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Just IM her, tell her it's extremely urgent | Mar 22 15:12 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, plus, I'll be doing them in a small place in our university called "The CSDC" -> "Civil Society Development Center" | Mar 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.roaksoax.com/2010/03/data-loss-after-update | Mar 22 15:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: RoAkSoAxs Weblog » Data loss after update? .::. Size~: 16.56 KB | Mar 22 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Turd? | Mar 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: but remember: | Mar 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | What you tell people pass from mouth to ear | Mar 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | People forget peer-to-peer communicaton | Mar 22 15:13 |
| schestowitz | Television in a strong brainwashing device, too. It separates and captivates | Mar 22 15:14 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, what do you meant? | Mar 22 15:14 |
| Omar87 | mean* | Mar 22 15:14 |
| schestowitz | When the TV was invented it's what they had in mind, among other things | Mar 22 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: if you explain to somewhat that FOSS is better, than a listener could give a similar talk later | Mar 22 15:14 |
| schestowitz | RMS knows that building ideas that spread is important | Mar 22 15:14 |
| schestowitz | There's not much one can achieve alone, but if you speak to people in Jordan then you germinate something | Mar 22 15:15 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I see. | Mar 22 15:15 |
| schestowitz | Be an educator | Mar 22 15:15 |
| Omar87 | Thanks for the advice. | Mar 22 15:15 |
| schestowitz | ANd be polite | Mar 22 15:15 |
| schestowitz | You drive people off otherwise | Mar 22 15:15 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, exactly. that's what I'm planning to do. | Mar 22 15:16 |
| schestowitz | http://indlovu.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/ubuntu-drifting-away-from-open-source/ | Mar 22 15:16 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu drifting away from open source? « U8UNTU eLXER .::. Size~: 33.45 KB | Mar 22 15:16 |
| schestowitz | Some people can't be persuaded, Omar87 | Mar 22 15:16 |
| schestowitz | Don't aim for them | Mar 22 15:16 |
| schestowitz | And don't alienate the rest because of them | Mar 22 15:17 |
| schestowitz | FS is inevitable | Mar 22 15:17 |
| schestowitz | They too will pass^tm | Mar 22 15:17 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I know. | Mar 22 15:17 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, what I'm aiming for are those people who don't know anything. | Mar 22 15:17 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, I don't really care about those people who already know but are not interested. | Mar 22 15:18 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, as wasting my time on them is the worst mistake can do. | Mar 22 15:18 |
| Omar87 | the worst mistake *I* can do. | Mar 22 15:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes. +1 | Mar 22 15:19 |
| schestowitz | It's easier in south America anyway | Mar 22 15:20 |
| schestowitz | South Africa. They had foreign invaders | Mar 22 15:20 |
| Omar87 | I see. | Mar 22 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe east Europe too | Mar 22 15:20 |
| schestowitz | In Jordan Microsoft has no profit policy | Mar 22 15:20 |
| schestowitz | Letting people be called "thieves" | Mar 22 15:20 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, it will have sooner or later. | Mar 22 15:21 |
| schestowitz | So that Microsoft is seen as "victim" and "generous" at the same time | Mar 22 15:21 |
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| schestowitz | jweyrich would know | Mar 22 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Sup', jweyrich? | Mar 22 15:21 |
| jweyrich | hi schestowitz! not much. working. you? | Mar 22 15:22 |
| jweyrich | what would I know? | Mar 22 15:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.kdenews.org/2010/03/21/koffice-22-beta-1-released | Mar 22 15:23 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: KOffice 2.2 Beta 1 Released | KDE.news .::. Size~: 11.65 KB | Mar 22 15:23 |
| schestowitz | jweyrich: I was talking to Omar87 about south America | Mar 22 15:24 |
| schestowitz | And how it understands the need for libre software | Mar 22 15:24 |
| schestowitz | btw new one: http://www.dicosmo.org/MyOpinions/index.php/2010/03/19/98-microsoft-under-fire-in-argentina-it-faces-a-fine-of-more-than-50-million-euros-for-anticompetitive-activities | Mar 22 15:24 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft under fire in Argentina: it faces a fine of more than 50 million euros for anticompetitive activities - My Opinions .::. Size~: 26.34 KB | Mar 22 15:24 |
| *ender2070 (~ender2070@74.13.99.207) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 15:26 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Enso zenPad runs Android, 5", $155, doesn't seem to suck too badly http://ur1.ca/r57j !Linux | Mar 22 15:27 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Enso's zenPad is the cheap Android tablet you've always wanted, available now -- Engadget .::. Size~: 205.35 KB | Mar 22 15:27 |
| ender2070 | http://www.pwnage.ca/?q=node/31 | Mar 22 15:29 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Evil? and MS Isn't MORE Evil? | www.pwnage.ca .::. Size~: 8.65 KB | Mar 22 15:29 |
| ender2070 | this one is funny | Mar 22 15:29 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=1833 | Mar 22 15:31 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Latest Commodore 64 incarnation hopes what's old is new again | Laptops and Desktops | ZDNet.com .::. Size~: 96.21 KB | Mar 22 15:31 |
| schestowitz | "It comes with the latest version of Ubuntu Linux" | Mar 22 15:31 |
| schestowitz | ender2070: no | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | That's their old goal | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | every desk | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Not it's every server, mail account, etc. | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | They also want to control information | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Deciding what info to take forward and which to reject | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Search Bong[sic] for "ballmer chair" or "gates abuse" | Mar 22 15:33 |
| schestowitz | That sort of stuff | Mar 22 15:34 |
| schestowitz | BTW: | Mar 22 15:34 |
| schestowitz | No company is evil | Mar 22 15:34 |
| ender2070 | thats what i was making fun of | Mar 22 15:34 |
| schestowitz | The word "evil" has terrible connotation, so I don't use it | Mar 22 15:34 |
| jweyrich | Most brazilian governmental systems are under linux right now. And it's taking place everywhere. However, we still find reluctant companies, but it's fairly adopted by universities and other educational establishments. Argentine is going thru the same way. | Mar 22 15:34 |
| schestowitz | You can say "criminal company" | Mar 22 15:34 |
| jweyrich | Argentina* | Mar 22 15:34 |
| schestowitz | Crime is verified objectively based on the law by legal professionals | Mar 22 15:34 |
| schestowitz | jweyrich: that's good | Mar 22 15:35 |
| schestowitz | The world looks up to Brazil | Mar 22 15:35 |
| ender2070 | if I say criminal company without a conviction I may be liable | Mar 22 15:35 |
| schestowitz | Omar87 too, he likes South America for leading the way for the rest of us | Mar 22 15:35 |
| schestowitz | ender2070: Microsoft is convicted | Mar 22 15:35 |
| schestowitz | Multiple times | Mar 22 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Intel | Mar 22 15:36 |
| schestowitz | To | Mar 22 15:36 |
| schestowitz | *too | Mar 22 15:36 |
| ender2070 | what is intel convicted of | Mar 22 15:36 |
| schestowitz | My family gets upset when I rip Intel | Mar 22 15:36 |
| schestowitz | Cause I have relatives who work there | Mar 22 15:36 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, yeah, South America is a region one can be proud of. | Mar 22 15:36 |
| ender2070 | what was intel convicted of? | Mar 22 15:36 |
| *magentar (~frederick@ip-109-90-135-190.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 15:36 | |
| schestowitz | ender2070: bribes, destruction of evidence (obstruction of evidence), collusion, etc. | Mar 22 15:36 |
| ender2070 | amd tried to sue them for antitrust but settled and took the money instead | Mar 22 15:36 |
| schestowitz | * /evidence/justice/ | Mar 22 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Mar 22 15:37 |
| schestowitz | ender2070: I call it "guilty by admi$$ion" | Mar 22 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Money admitted | Mar 22 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Not guilt admitted | Mar 22 15:37 |
| ender2070 | yeah but i dont say amd is any better | Mar 22 15:37 |
| schestowitz | Post your bail in the Admissions Office | Mar 22 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Remember Gates was bailed out after his arrest | Mar 22 15:38 |
| ender2070 | amd should have stuck with it if they really cared about prices for consumers | Mar 22 15:38 |
| schestowitz | His mug from there is public domain | Mar 22 15:38 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz, and links for that? | Mar 22 15:38 |
| schestowitz | AMD is owned by middle east hands now | Mar 22 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Partly. | Mar 22 15:38 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: search for gates' mug | Mar 22 15:38 |
| ender2070 | amd is pathetic imo | Mar 22 15:38 |
| schestowitz | http://images.google.com/images?rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&hl=en&source=hp&q=bill+gates+mug&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= | Mar 22 15:39 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: bill gates mug - Google Search .::. Size~: 58.02 KB | Mar 22 15:39 |
| ender2070 | they couldn't even afford decent reps, we had this one guy who acted kind of like a stoner and didn't even know anything about his product | Mar 22 15:39 |
| ender2070 | he was asking what ram he would need for his own processor/mobo combo | Mar 22 15:40 |
| ender2070 | some other dumb questions too | Mar 22 15:40 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Quit: Leaving) | Mar 22 15:40 | |
| ender2070 | LG sucks too | Mar 22 15:40 |
| ender2070 | they had a bad rep too | Mar 22 15:40 |
| ender2070 | i even dealt with a microsoft rep at the store | Mar 22 15:41 |
| ender2070 | i pwned him | Mar 22 15:41 |
| ender2070 | i was trying the win7 rc at our store, and I complimented him on the fact that IE was removable enough that apps tied to it didnt work anymore :) | Mar 22 15:42 |
| ender2070 | he didnt like it, asking me what harm it caused by leaving it on my system | Mar 22 15:42 |
| ender2070 | i asked him if he would feel safe not locking his door at night | Mar 22 15:43 |
| jweyrich | hehe | Mar 22 15:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.penguinpetes.com/Doomed_to_Obscurity/index.php?strip=0000227.jpg | Mar 22 15:46 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Doomed to Obscurity .::. Size~: 55.38 KB | Mar 22 15:46 |
| schestowitz | ender2070: LG is boycotted | Mar 22 15:46 |
| schestowitz | It signed a Linux deal with Microsoft | Mar 22 15:46 |
| jweyrich | LG never made good products anyway, I guess the only thing I liked was their flatron monitors. | Mar 22 15:47 |
| jweyrich | s/monitors/displays/ | Mar 22 15:47 |
| jweyrich | not sure whether you use the word "monitor" for that purpose. | Mar 22 15:48 |
| ender2070 | they used to make some decent laptops | Mar 22 15:49 |
| ender2070 | they used to oem for ibm's thinkpads | Mar 22 15:49 |
| ender2070 | they had this one notebook series with two power buttons on it | Mar 22 15:50 |
| ender2070 | one power button booted windows, the other booted a castrated linux | Mar 22 15:50 |
| ender2070 | had so many returns on it, people kept booting the wrong one | Mar 22 15:51 |
| ender2070 | (LG) | Mar 22 15:51 |
| ender2070 | i'd rather have a dual boot screen or something like that | Mar 22 15:51 |
| jweyrich | haha. never saw that one. | Mar 22 15:52 |
| schestowitz | http://bheekly.blogspot.com/2010/03/freenode-fails.html | Mar 22 15:52 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bheekling's Rantings: Freenode Fails. .::. Size~: 76.41 KB | Mar 22 15:52 |
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| jweyrich | schestowitz: I guess I never noticed because I alway auto-identify. but indeed, looks ridiculous. | Mar 22 15:57 |
| schestowitz | That's a nasty article: | Mar 22 15:57 |
| schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/rip-palm-its-over-and-heres-why.ars | Mar 22 15:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: RIP Palm: it's over, and here's why .::. Size~: 35.18 KB | Mar 22 15:57 |
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| schestowitz | FUD image: check | Mar 22 15:57 |
| schestowitz | FUD headline: check | Mar 22 15:57 |
| schestowitz | ArsTechnica=ArsTechnica--; | Mar 22 15:57 |
| jweyrich | need to replace my macbook fan urgently. it's doing more noise than a tractor. | Mar 22 15:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/21/1539828_latin-america-leads-in-school.html | Mar 22 15:59 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Latin America leads in school laptops - Andres Oppenheimer - MiamiHerald.com .::. Size~: 84.58 KB | Mar 22 15:59 |
| jweyrich | I don't know a single school covered by this program, but I might be looking at the wrong ones. | Mar 22 16:00 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODA4Nw | Mar 22 16:24 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] Phoronix To Tour Chernobyl Nuclear Site .::. Size~: 16.59 KB | Mar 22 16:24 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Morning folks! How are you all doing today? Ready for a busy week? :-) | Mar 22 16:24 | |
| schestowitz | Wot?? | Mar 22 16:24 |
| schestowitz | jono: morning. | Mar 22 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | Health insurance stocks are up | Mar 22 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201003221132dowjonesdjonline000249&title=at-a-glancehealth-care-stocks-up-after-house-oks-overhaul | Mar 22 16:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: AT A GLANCE: Health-Care Stocks Up After House OK's Overhaul .::. Size~: 52.08 KB | Mar 22 16:26 |
| jono | hey schestowitz | Mar 22 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | hey jono, we just sent $1 trillion to the health care cartel | Mar 22 16:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: did something pass? | Mar 22 16:26 |
| schestowitz | I missed the news | Mar 22 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | they can now waste it on bonuses and doing cocaine | Mar 22 16:26 |
| jono | DaemonFC, I saw it passed | Mar 22 16:26 |
| jono | here we go... | Mar 22 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Bad for jono, I guess. He lives there | Mar 22 16:27 |
| jono | another 20 lines of DaemonFC verbal diarrhea.... | Mar 22 16:27 |
| jono | :) | Mar 22 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Government by the -people- cartel for the -people- cartel | Mar 22 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | jono either gets to buy health insurance here or pay a 2.5% fine on his income | Mar 22 16:27 |
| schestowitz | As it should be | Mar 22 16:27 |
| schestowitz | jono: hehe. | Mar 22 16:28 |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: what if you are unemployed ?? | Mar 22 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | You can't fix evil with a small patch | Mar 22 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | WireWulf: What about it? COBRA | Mar 22 16:28 |
| schestowitz | "But jono... jono jono.... hey jono, look jonojon" -- DaemonFOX | Mar 22 16:28 |
| jono | lol | Mar 22 16:28 |
| schestowitz | Is cobra served in Asian restaurants? | Mar 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's probably going to be struck down anyway, by the courts | Mar 22 16:29 |
| schestowitz | CORBA? | Mar 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: COBRA lets you keep your insurance for 6 months after you lose your job | Mar 22 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | it's a federal law already | Mar 22 16:30 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CORBA | Mar 22 16:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Common Object Request Broker Architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 78.27 KB | Mar 22 16:30 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: ahh.. | Mar 22 16:30 |
| WireWulf | DaemonFC: i havent had a job in a year | Mar 22 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1985 | Mar 22 16:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 59.42 KB | Mar 22 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Does anyone still PDAs? | Mar 22 16:31 |
| schestowitz | There's Sharp with Ubuntu, but just in .jp | Mar 22 16:31 |
| schestowitz | I can't find a gadget without those infernal trasmittors | Mar 22 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Shutting down the cartel and setting up a single payer system was the only good option | Mar 22 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | the cartel made sure it didn't have the votes | Mar 22 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 16:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how%20to%20see%20blind%20spot&search=Search&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&spell=1 | Mar 22 16:33 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- how to see blind spot .::. Size~: 103.41 KB | Mar 22 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Does any here know how to see the blind spot? | Mar 22 16:33 |
| schestowitz | There's some trick to it.. | Mar 22 16:33 |
| schestowitz | Can't find it.. | Mar 22 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | There's no way you can adequately describe the system of private insurance companies we have without calling them a cartel | Mar 22 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | as a cartel, they all violate the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 | Mar 22 16:34 |
| schestowitz | Ah.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_spot_%28vision%29 | Mar 22 16:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Blind spot (vision) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.76 KB | Mar 22 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | and possibly the RICO Act | Mar 22 16:34 |
| schestowitz | It's not enforced | Mar 22 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: They should be shut down as criminal organizations under at least two US federal laws | Mar 22 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | maybe more | Mar 22 16:35 |
| neighborlee | DaemonFC: dont forget president obama said he never campaigned for it, though he certainly did..many were for a single payer including senator weiner, but we didn't get it of course because at the time we did not have the votes ..its not a easy process but sure, even some democrats were in the insurance companies 'pockets' | Mar 22 16:35 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm not against reform, but what we just did was put a very expensive patch on it that feeds the cartel that's already in place | Mar 22 16:36 |
| WireWulf | wee | Mar 22 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | it may work out to where it costs less to insure each person, but we're still paying more than we should | Mar 22 16:36 |
| neighborlee | but its a start at least..at least those who have none can get it,,rome was not built in a day, and we know for sURE the republicans weren't going to build it. | Mar 22 16:36 |
| WireWulf | heh | Mar 22 16:37 |
| schestowitz | I can't make it work. | Mar 22 16:37 |
| schestowitz | "Instructions: You may need to reduce the size of your browser window if your screen is large or at a high resolution. Your face should be very close to the screen. Cover right eye and focus the left eye on the X. Now slowly move away from the screen. The O will disappear, while the A which is further to the left is still visible. As you move further away, the O will reappear. (Observe that you do not see a hole. Instead of the O you | Mar 22 16:37 |
| schestowitz | see a uniform grey background. The "hole" is filled in by your brain. Make sure there is not a glare on the screen as it will obscure the whole vision.)" | Mar 22 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: Well, it might be that a half-fix is better than leaving the whole problem in place | Mar 22 16:37 |
| neighborlee | no votes for health care reform, even though we know for sure its going to save lives..now there's a visual for you | Mar 22 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | I'll admit that much | Mar 22 16:37 |
| neighborlee | :) | Mar 22 16:37 |
| WireWulf | has anyone read the bill completly? | Mar 22 16:37 |
| neighborlee | yes | Mar 22 16:37 |
| neighborlee | many senators | Mar 22 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | 1400 pages | Mar 22 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt anyone could | Mar 22 16:37 |
| neighborlee | except john bayner LOL | Mar 22 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Can't figest it | Mar 22 16:37 |
| neighborlee | digest | Mar 22 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | it's longer than 500 US Constitutions | Mar 22 16:38 |
| neighborlee | DaemonFC: some people read fast, and retain :) | Mar 22 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's half again as long as War and Peace | Mar 22 16:38 |
| schestowitz | Anyone, I won't live in the US any time soon, so I'm glad to say I don't need to be angry | Mar 22 16:38 |
| schestowitz | *anyway | Mar 22 16:38 |
| WireWulf | then you know it also makes the only way to get money for college via the goverment | Mar 22 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | well, they rushed it through and there might be some really nasty stuff in there unrelated to healthcare that we find out about when it's already law | Mar 22 16:39 |
| neighborlee | thats what the amendments are for | Mar 22 16:39 |
| neighborlee | that is going to senate | Mar 22 16:39 |
| WireWulf | meaning all schools are now 100% control by the fed | Mar 22 16:39 |
| neighborlee | WireWulf: its not like some schools are a haven of perfection you know..many are failing the students miserably | Mar 22 16:39 |
| WireWulf | neighborlee: most of those are goverment ran | Mar 22 16:40 |
| jweyrich | damn it, the apple store keeps telling me I need to bring my macbook to them to switch the cooler. WTF? | Mar 22 16:40 |
| WireWulf | example the local highschool here | Mar 22 16:40 |
| jweyrich | they want 150 (fan) + 100 (man work). | Mar 22 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: Read Section 256, Hawaii's senators worked that in | Mar 22 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | it makes sure to leave their system alone | Mar 22 16:42 |
| WireWulf | jweyrich: i'd do it for 160 | Mar 22 16:42 |
| WireWulf | if you was local | Mar 22 16:42 |
| jweyrich | I'd do it myself. but they don't allow me. | Mar 22 16:42 |
| WireWulf | jweyrich: they would me xD ;however, more reason for me to never use a mac | Mar 22 16:43 |
| jweyrich | just knew apple doesn't sell parts alone. beautiful! apple--; | Mar 22 16:45 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] ♺ @amcguire62: Just purchased "the art of the community" by Jono Bacon http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596157234/ as reviewed in UKUUG | Mar 22 16:46 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Art of Community - O'Reilly Media .::. Size~: 45.3 KB | Mar 22 16:46 |
| WireWulf | jweyrich: i can find a apple computer to rob i mean take parts from cheap | Mar 22 16:47 |
| WireWulf | not like they change too much | Mar 22 16:47 |
| jweyrich | lol. | Mar 22 16:47 |
| WireWulf | model to model it really is nothing big they change | Mar 22 16:48 |
| jweyrich | well, mine is a macbook2,1 (A1181, 13 inch) | Mar 22 16:49 |
| jweyrich | late 2006. | Mar 22 16:49 |
| WireWulf | mmhmm | Mar 22 16:49 |
| neighborlee | DaemonFC: what are you referring to ? | Mar 22 16:51 |
| neighborlee | bbl | Mar 22 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | neighborlee: The bill exempts Hawaii's existing single payer system | Mar 22 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | Hawaii wants no part of this | Mar 22 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | so after excusing themselves, they voted for the act which affects the other 49 states, but not them | Mar 22 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | The act was also not really popular in Massachusetts, where they have the same thing on a smaller scale. 97% covered but their premiums are higher than anywhere else in the country | Mar 22 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of them want their state system repealed, not a federal one to replace it | Mar 22 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | so Hawaii doesn't want it cause theirs is better, and Massachusetts wants to get rid of essentially the same framework in their own state already (not a federal one to replace it), and that's why Scott Brown was sent to the Senate | Mar 22 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | lots of horse trading and trickery to get this bill passed | Mar 22 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | rightly, the Senators from Hawaii should have abstained or voted Present | Mar 22 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | They're obviously not voting for it within the capacity of representing their state | Mar 22 17:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] David Cameron's wife Samantha pregnant - Just in time for an election too; how convenient http://tinyurl.com/y8lagor | Mar 22 17:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC News - David Cameron's wife Samantha pregnant .::. Size~: 50.26 KB | Mar 22 17:02 |
| WireWulf | wee | Mar 22 17:02 |
| WireWulf | no matter what we are just in the shitter | Mar 22 17:02 |
| WireWulf | becuz you can go around the court | Mar 22 17:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's somewhat doubtful the court will strike it down, and even if they do, it won't be the entire bill | Mar 22 17:03 |
| DaemonFC | just the mandatory purchase part | Mar 22 17:03 |
| WireWulf | thats doubtful also | Mar 22 17:04 |
| DaemonFC | the issue at hand is not whether the entire bill violates the commerce clause, but whether mandatory purchase does | Mar 22 17:05 |
| DaemonFC | the entire bill will not be stricken even if that part is | Mar 22 17:05 |
| DaemonFC | the courts rarely strike an entire bill on constitutional grounds | Mar 22 17:05 |
| WireWulf | they should | Mar 22 17:06 |
| WireWulf | but i dont think they will do much | Mar 22 17:06 |
| WireWulf | tho there are ways around the court | Mar 22 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | Their authority ends where the violation of the constitution and the grounds of the complaint do | Mar 22 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | the Republicans are exaggerating when they act like they'll get the whole thing stricken | Mar 22 17:07 |
| WireWulf | heh i hate both parties | Mar 22 17:07 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Pushed some code today : http://gitorious.org/dotnettwitter | Mar 22 17:07 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: DotNetTwitter - Gitorious .::. Size~: 12.33 KB | Mar 22 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | so if the Republicans file a lawsuit complaining about mandatory purchase, that's the only thing the court can strike | Mar 22 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | even if other violations occur in the law | Mar 22 17:08 |
| *satipera (~satiperaq@78.149.35.33) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 17:08 | |
| WireWulf | i am for an indepentent republic | Mar 22 17:08 |
| WireWulf | fuck parties | Mar 22 17:08 |
| schestowitz | It woulddevalue it | Mar 22 17:12 |
| schestowitz | And no sanitation | Mar 22 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't work well in practice | Mar 22 17:12 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: are you getting screwed over by the cartel"? | Mar 22 17:13 |
| schestowitz | The cartel is too busy making lousy drugs nobody needs | Mar 22 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Like wrinkle creams and v1agra | Mar 22 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Not life-saving drugs for Africa | Mar 22 17:13 |
| schestowitz | That would NOT be profitable | Mar 22 17:14 |
| schestowitz | They just pocket the margins and spend on advertising probably more than they spend on research | Mar 22 17:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20100314051736753/MedicalPractice.html | Mar 22 17:17 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: They focus on rich white people diseases | Mar 22 17:18 |
| DaemonFC | like going bald or getting wrinkles | Mar 22 17:18 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 17:18 |
| DaemonFC | erectile dysfunction | Mar 22 17:18 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I sympathise with my US-based friends, who are getting raped by the 'Insurance' Cartel after the bill passed | Mar 22 17:19 | |
| DaemonFC | so a 90 year old man can take a pill for that | Mar 22 17:19 |
| schestowitz | "Thanks to the availability of Unity3d, Airplay and maybe even Unreal Engine 3, game development tools and engines are becoming a much more important part of the mobile space." | Mar 22 17:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/PG.Biz/ShiVa3D/news.asp?c=19226 | Mar 22 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Mono? | Mar 22 17:19 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Stonetrip adds Android support to ShiVa game engine, news, ShiVa3D, PocketGamer.biz .::. Size~: 35.19 KB | Mar 22 17:19 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Scripting engine is .Net | Mar 22 17:20 |
| DaemonFC | same for Second Life | Mar 22 17:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/ncomputing-drives-desktop-virtualization-into,1212766.shtml\ | Mar 22 17:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: NComputing Drives Desktop Virtualization Into the Mainstream With Launch of $20 Numo System-On-Chip Bringing Windows and Linux Applications to Any Device .::. Size~: 62.04 KB | Mar 22 17:21 |
| schestowitz | So they /still/ do Linux after all | Mar 22 17:21 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: poor people don't live long | Mar 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Even it they did, they wouldn't buy those 'luxury' drugs | Mar 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | That's the top-tier market | Mar 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | People with more money than need | Mar 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Like Apps clientele | Mar 22 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Pharma cartel is like Apple | Mar 22 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | This woman is on the phone encouraging a run on the banks to evade a 2.5% tax with refusal of health insurance | Mar 22 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 17:32 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[d235j] Just got Rucksack for Mac OS X completely free. Nothing paid! Really awesome! But hurry, only until March 23rd at http://www.macbuzzer.com | Mar 22 17:39 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Macbuzzer - mac software bundles gone insane... .::. Size~: 10.88 KB | Mar 22 17:39 |
| satipera | UK lobbyist blames journalists for politicians behaviour | Mar 22 17:45 |
| MinceR | i wonder why are we watching a twitter account that's advertising paid proprietary software for osx | Mar 22 17:46 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You want to know what's really wicked? Medicare co-pays are $7 on generics, but the cost of most generics if $4, so Part D does nothing for you if you're on all generics | Mar 22 17:50 |
| DaemonFC | the only way to save any money is getting 90 days worth for $9 so Medicare pays $2 | Mar 22 17:50 |
| DaemonFC | the system punishes you for trying to stick with older cheaper drugs | Mar 22 17:53 |
| DaemonFC | it pays 0-18% on those and 60-85% on most brand names | Mar 22 17:54 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 17:54 |
| DaemonFC | in some cases you may as well just pay the $15-$20 and get the new stuff | Mar 22 17:55 |
| DaemonFC | if the goal of the system was to save money, generics would be free | Mar 22 17:55 |
| satipera | It is the same with the NHS. Prescription charges have been greatly increased under this Labour regime. The government makes a profit of 100's of million pounds on prescription charges. | Mar 22 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: Medicare is by law, FORBIDDEN to negotiate with the pharma cartel for better prices | Mar 22 17:56 |
| DaemonFC | the Veteran's Administration CAN negotiate | Mar 22 17:57 |
| DaemonFC | the result is that it costs twice as much per patient on Medicare than on the VA system | Mar 22 17:57 |
| DaemonFC | if the VA buys a bottle of Crestor, it pays $50 | Mar 22 17:57 |
| DaemonFC | if Medicare buys it, it's $150 | Mar 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | and you pay $57 | Mar 22 17:58 |
| satipera | yes thyat is ridiculous, I believe you will end up with the equivelant of our NICE organisation | Mar 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | NICE? | Mar 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | I take it, NICE, is not NICE? | Mar 22 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 17:58 |
| *neighborlee has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Mar 22 17:58 | |
| satipera | national institute for clinical excellence | Mar 22 17:58 |
| satipera | They actually do a good job | Mar 22 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: The only good part about going through the insurance cartel, is that those insurance auditors can negotiate for better deals, and will | Mar 22 17:59 |
| satipera | They decide if a new drug is cost effective | Mar 22 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | in fact, the hospitals don't send them fraudulent bills like they will to the uninsured | Mar 22 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | hospitals like to charge $500 for boxes of facial tissues if you're uninsured | Mar 22 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | they cann it "mucous reclamation system" | Mar 22 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | things like tat | Mar 22 18:00 |
| DaemonFC | *that | Mar 22 18:00 |
| satipera | As a lot of people have said in the US health debate, they would not start from where they are | Mar 22 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | private insurers have people whose only job is to look for deceptive billing practices | Mar 22 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | and refuse to pay those items | Mar 22 18:01 |
| DaemonFC | up until this year, Medicare would just pay whatever bill the hospital sent | Mar 22 18:01 |
| satipera | As an outsider I am amazed by the USA system of health care | Mar 22 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | Obama just instituted an anti-deceptive billing group in Medicare | Mar 22 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | they keep a few percent of whatever fraud or waste they uncover | Mar 22 18:02 |
| DaemonFC | so if the hospital tries to pass a $500 box of facial tissues, and the auditor catches that, he may get another $20 on his paycheck that week | Mar 22 18:03 |
| DaemonFC | it adds up, that's the idea | Mar 22 18:03 |
| satipera | It was interesting what Pelosi said about the new system aiding entrepeneurs. Yes anti fraud idea is a good one | Mar 22 18:03 |
| DaemonFC | lobbyists have castrated Medicare's ability to protect itself from fraud | Mar 22 18:04 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @nperry U1M Store Closer - http://tinyurl.com/yllqkuk #u :) | Mar 22 18:04 | |
| DaemonFC | largely through the Republicans | Mar 22 18:04 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: U1M Store Closer « Neil Perry .::. Size~: 11.05 KB | Mar 22 18:04 |
| *WireWulf is now known as anti-matter | Mar 22 18:04 | |
| satipera | The USA healthcare system must reduce labour mobility | Mar 22 18:05 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My Professional Focus and Goals in a Nutshell http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/03/22/digital-control/ Some quick thoughts... | Mar 22 18:05 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Stupid stupid traffic | Mar 22 18:05 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » My Professional Focus and Goals in a Nutshell .::. Size~: 35.11 KB | Mar 22 18:05 |
| *anti-matter is now known as WireWulf | Mar 22 18:05 | |
| DaemonFC | I think we'd get the cost down at least 30% if we clamped down on fraud and gave Medicare the ability to negotiate pricing | Mar 22 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | at least 30% | Mar 22 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | Medicare doesn't have the huge CEO bonus deals and shit, but it's less efficient than a private insurance company | Mar 22 18:06 |
| DaemonFC | cause it can't negotiate and hasn't had an anti-abuse system | Mar 22 18:06 |
| satipera | Widening the health care debate out a little, the political system is so corrupt state funding of political parties has to be a good idea | Mar 22 18:06 |
| DaemonFC | it's had to just pay whatever anyone wanted for so many years that it's now only about 70% efficient | Mar 22 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | where private insurance is 85% | Mar 22 18:07 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is Medicare could be 98% efficient if they would stop paying without questioning | Mar 22 18:08 |
| satipera | But private insurance for health is widely seen as a very inefficient way of organising things. | Mar 22 18:08 |
| satipera | I can't accept your efficiency stats | Mar 22 18:08 |
| DaemonFC | well, you have companies that spring up just to submit fake Medicare claims, inventing ghost patients | Mar 22 18:09 |
| DaemonFC | and the people running the scam buy sports cars and shit with the money | Mar 22 18:09 |
| satipera | There seems to be very little social responsibility | Mar 22 18:10 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Traffic made tolerable by Jarre on radio | Mar 22 18:10 | |
| satipera | The USA health and prison "industries" have a lot in common | Mar 22 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | institutionalized | Mar 22 18:11 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Life of a freelance developer: http://geexhq.com/life-of-a-freelance-web-developer/ @binnyva /via @mageshcse | Mar 22 18:12 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Life Of A Freelance Web Developer .::. Size~: 40.7 KB | Mar 22 18:12 |
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| satipera | They are more about the people delivering the service than the service itself | Mar 22 18:14 |
| DaemonFC | damned en-GB | Mar 22 18:14 |
| DaemonFC | keep your god damned en-GB off of articles about the United States!!! | Mar 22 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | GAH!!! | Mar 22 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | I can't even remember how many articles I've had t ofix | Mar 22 18:15 |
| DaemonFC | that's always fun to walk into | Mar 22 18:18 |
| DaemonFC | load an article about something US-related and it's polluted with en-GB spellings and British-isms | Mar 22 18:18 |
| DaemonFC | it's a Wiki-invasion | Mar 22 18:18 |
| satipera | ha ha why get so irate? | Mar 22 18:19 |
| DaemonFC | cause it pisses me off | Mar 22 18:19 |
| DaemonFC | I've even encountered articles about Indiana with British-isms | Mar 22 18:20 |
| DaemonFC | how do those get in there? | Mar 22 18:20 |
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| DaemonFC | We were never a British colony, so I can't even see the historical reasoning for any of that | Mar 22 18:20 |
| satipera | I am surprised Americans notice | Mar 22 18:20 |
| DaemonFC | how couldn't you notice? | Mar 22 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmm..... never seen this before: http://news.softpedia.com/editors/ | Mar 22 18:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Softpedia News Editorial Team - Softpedia .::. Size~: 45.67 KB | Mar 22 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | centre, defence, colour | Mar 22 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | kind of stands out | Mar 22 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | so I just load the whole article in the editor and let my spell checker help me go over it, underscores all en-GB spellings in red | Mar 22 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | makes reading through for them much easier | Mar 22 18:23 |
| satipera | A lot of people on the mainland call it European English | Mar 22 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | well why not? I've seen people complain about articles on the UK with American spellings | Mar 22 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | Why shouldn't I be just as annoyed? | Mar 22 18:24 |
| MinceR | why should any of you be annoyed? | Mar 22 18:24 |
| schestowitz | Jabba has fleas | Mar 22 18:25 |
| satipera | Quite, I can't work up any steam over that one. | Mar 22 18:25 |
| cubezzz | KDE has kolourpaint :) | Mar 22 18:26 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: got ryan ticked off if you know what I mean | Mar 22 18:27 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Two calls down, three to go. :-) | Mar 22 18:27 | |
| schestowitz | KDE has Krita | Mar 22 18:27 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Because if you took a vote of all English speakers from native English-speaking countries, the US spelling would have not only a simple majority | Mar 22 18:27 |
| DaemonFC | but maybe even a 2/3rds majority | Mar 22 18:27 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 22 18:27 |
| MinceR | i personally prefer us english (mainly because of its simplicity) but i think that brits should have the right to use their version | Mar 22 18:28 |
| satipera | Indian English uses colour | Mar 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | The UK and Canada for example only have about 96 million, combined | Mar 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | and not even all of Canada speaks English | Mar 22 18:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: en-GB sounds better | Mar 22 18:28 |
| schestowitz | It's also the original | Mar 22 18:28 |
| cubezzz | Australia? New Zealand? | Mar 22 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | so that's really an overestimate | Mar 22 18:28 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: not to me | Mar 22 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Depends whose | Mar 22 18:28 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: as for originality: languages evolve. | Mar 22 18:28 |
| schestowitz | England has more accents than in the US, I reckon | Mar 22 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Linux 0.01 was the original | Mar 22 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | go use that | Mar 22 18:29 |
| MinceR | then again, british accents do provide some variety :) | Mar 22 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | no? | Mar 22 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Oxford-ish: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2010/03/22/new-favourite-channel-potholer54/ | Mar 22 18:29 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » New Favourite Channel .::. Size~: 30.68 KB | Mar 22 18:29 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: open source evolves too | Mar 22 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft entryism | Mar 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't make it OK to warp quotes | Mar 22 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | actually, some American spellings were how they appeared in the 1700's in the UK | Mar 22 18:30 |
| cubezzz | after the UK, Canada, US, Australia and New Zeland what other countries are mostly English speaking/writing? | Mar 22 18:30 |
| satipera | One thing I can never understand about USA English is that phrase I could care less | Mar 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Like when editors change "ise" to "ize" and "colour" to "color" | Mar 22 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | the British version changed | Mar 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | My editor in some magazine I wrote for did this | Mar 22 18:30 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: what does that have to do with dialects of the english language? | Mar 22 18:30 |
| schestowitz | No real English allowed :-) | Mar 22 18:30 |
| DaemonFC | it's not real English | Mar 22 18:31 |
| MinceR | cubezzz: iirc ireland is too | Mar 22 18:31 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 22 18:31 | |
| schestowitz | satipera: "I could care less"? | Mar 22 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | you changed as much or more than we did | Mar 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Common mistale | Mar 22 18:31 |
| satipera | yes | Mar 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | AmazingAtheists did a video about this phrase | Mar 22 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | US English is more "correct" in many cases in that viewpoint | Mar 22 18:31 |
| satipera | Where as we say I could not care less | Mar 22 18:31 |
| schestowitz | There are also "supposedly" and "supposably" | Mar 22 18:32 |
| cubezzz | "I could care less" makes no sense | Mar 22 18:32 |
| DaemonFC | I believe it's "I couldn't care less" | Mar 22 18:32 |
| DaemonFC | or just "Go fuck yourselves!" | Mar 22 18:33 |
| DaemonFC | I prefer that one | Mar 22 18:33 |
| satipera | Apparently we pronounce canine the same as the USA because an English dictionary compiler had an American dentist | Mar 22 18:33 |
| cubezzz | who decides this stuff? :) | Mar 22 18:33 |
| cubezzz | all I know is that things went downhill after win95 came out | Mar 22 18:33 |
| satipera | it was a short a before this | Mar 22 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: I'm sure there's a "translatioun" available for you (OK, I know that one was bogus" | Mar 22 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | *) | Mar 22 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | but yes, seriously | Mar 22 18:34 |
| cubezzz | was there ever a golden era? | Mar 22 18:34 |
| DaemonFC | we should all be the same happy shade of gray and speak a combination of all languages | Mar 22 18:34 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Let's kick off the week with a little of Krisiun's 'AssassiNation' :-) | Mar 22 18:35 | |
| satipera | the golden era is always 60 or 70 years ago | Mar 22 18:35 |
| cubezzz | 1940 was golden? hmmm, maybe the golden era of film | Mar 22 18:36 |
| cubezzz | the golden era of computers was.... | Mar 22 18:37 |
| cubezzz | the 80's :) | Mar 22 18:37 |
| satipera | just watched the amazing atheist returns | Mar 22 18:38 |
| cubezzz | "the golden era of operating systems" | Mar 22 18:38 |
| cubezzz | I lived through the 70's, and I can say that was the golden era of fast food :) | Mar 22 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | Well I look at it this way. The far right is telling people not to return the census. The census determines how Congressional seats are apportioned. Most far right wingers live out in the states we don't WANT being represented in Congress. Why the FUCK are we fighting the "don't fill out the Census" idiots? | Mar 22 18:39 |
| cubezzz | people do get nostalgic about things though | Mar 22 18:39 |
| DaemonFC | does anyone else see a problem with this? | Mar 22 18:40 |
| cubezzz | the far right, what does that mean? | Mar 22 18:40 |
| satipera | The golden era of fast food is when it didn't deposit itself as a spare tyre | Mar 22 18:40 |
| DaemonFC | Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity | Mar 22 18:40 |
| cubezzz | Rush is irrational | Mar 22 18:40 |
| cubezzz | do people really listen to him? | Mar 22 18:41 |
| cubezzz | I doubt it | Mar 22 18:42 |
| cubezzz | in 1967 Canada didn't have McDonalds or Burger King | Mar 22 18:42 |
| cubezzz | or Subway :) | Mar 22 18:43 |
| satipera | Like Iceland | Mar 22 18:43 |
| *Ender2070 (~Ender2070@bas1-brampton13-1177973240.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 18:45 | |
| cubezzz | yeah, I stopped eating that | Mar 22 18:46 |
| cubezzz | not even Subway now | Mar 22 18:46 |
| satipera | Talking about multinationals, I was on a train a few years back going from cardif to Bristol, there were a group of American students on the train saying how many of the shops here are the same as the USA, a bit sad really | Mar 22 18:46 |
| cubezzz | I think the UK stores are a bit better generally speaking | Mar 22 18:47 |
| satipera | Local variety has to be better | Mar 22 18:47 |
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| cubezzz | I don't like the Walmart style big box stores | Mar 22 18:49 |
| satipera | I don't like walmarts anti union practices, I won't shop at Asda because of it | Mar 22 18:50 |
| cubezzz | and I don't like _any_ of the computer stores now | Mar 22 18:50 |
| cubezzz | used to like Radio Shack | Mar 22 18:50 |
| DaemonFC | no business wants a union | Mar 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | any business will act to keep one out | Mar 22 18:51 |
| satipera | Why not? | Mar 22 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | number of reasons | Mar 22 18:51 |
| satipera | cooperatives seem to do all right | Mar 22 18:52 |
| satipera | John Lewis is booming | Mar 22 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | A union can't promise the employees anything, they can ONLY bargain. You may end up with more, the same, or even less. The first thing a union does is make sure the union gets paid, out of your paycheck. | Mar 22 18:52 |
| DaemonFC | Unions tend to make concessions on worker pay and benefits to get the employer to agree to deduct your union dues before you see your check. | Mar 22 18:53 |
| satipera | I like the french model, you can't lay off or sack the union representative | Mar 22 18:53 |
| cubezzz | things were not better before Unions | Mar 22 18:53 |
| cubezzz | learn from history | Mar 22 18:53 |
| DaemonFC | Union membership is declining due to employee dissatisfaction | Mar 22 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | The only thing most unskilled laborers get from a union is less money | Mar 22 18:54 |
| satipera | How many times have I heard someone say Unions used to be a good idea but we do not need them now | Mar 22 18:54 |
| cubezzz | yes, we should abolish Unions and bring back child labour | Mar 22 18:54 |
| DaemonFC | Unions are greedy and there's really no protection for a job that anyone else can do | Mar 22 18:55 |
| cubezzz | that's a good idea | Mar 22 18:55 |
| satipera | That is a good thing the USA gave to the world the IWW | Mar 22 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | Paying $60 a month for bad representation on Walmart wages is a poor idea | Mar 22 18:55 |
| cubezzz | Walmart is bad | Mar 22 18:55 |
| cubezzz | I'd never shop there | Mar 22 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | They take advantage of people who aren't qualified to do anything better | Mar 22 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | Go work at Pizza Hut | Mar 22 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | or Dollar General? | Mar 22 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | McDonalds? You think they pay more? | Mar 22 18:56 |
| cubezzz | are McDonalds employees unionized? | Mar 22 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | Where do you think the money from raises would come from? | Mar 22 18:57 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Tim Voet contributes our very first #feedparser snippet! We need more though - see http://bit.ly/cGJDvi for how to contribute :-) | Mar 22 18:57 | |
| satipera | unlikely | Mar 22 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | higher prices | Mar 22 18:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: PythonSnippets - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 20.99 KB | Mar 22 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | less customers | Mar 22 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | dead business | Mar 22 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | no job | Mar 22 18:57 |
| DaemonFC | Unions don't run businesses out of business because they prey on the worker's wages | Mar 22 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | they don't cost the business much of anything | Mar 22 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | most unions like the SEIU, are actually going to take more from you in deductions than they'll get you in pay increases | Mar 22 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | I worked within a union once, the Sheet Metal Workers Union | Mar 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | they didn't do anything for us, except take our money | Mar 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | the pay was bad | Mar 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | the hours were long | Mar 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | the health insurance was OK | Mar 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | and I got the fuck out of there within several months | Mar 22 19:00 |
| satipera | Trade unionism is not just about a wages gained and union dues balance | Mar 22 19:00 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't want to make a career out of working for dead end wages and having the union siphon off money from me | Mar 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | it's like "Oh gee, Walmart is a shitty job, wanna make it worse!?" | Mar 22 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 19:01 |
| satipera | I think that is a short sited view you have there. | Mar 22 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | What's worse? Working for $8 an hour. Working for $8 an hour and having $10 taken out of your check each week. | Mar 22 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | Pick one | Mar 22 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | I know which one I'd rather live with | Mar 22 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | Service Union workers are still on welfare. | Mar 22 19:03 |
| cubezzz | I'm self employed | Mar 22 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | SEIU Meijer employees are on welfare in higher numbers than non-union Walmart employees. | Mar 22 19:03 |
| cubezzz | so no Union :) | Mar 22 19:03 |
| DaemonFC | so much for unions | Mar 22 19:03 |
| satipera | In the representationUK the unions are probably more use as an organised pressure group than work place | Mar 22 19:04 |
| cubezzz | just contracts | Mar 22 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: Admit it, you're busting your balls. | Mar 22 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | You want you to pay you more money! | Mar 22 19:04 |
| cubezzz | lol | Mar 22 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | You're mad as hell, and you're not gonna take your shit no more! | Mar 22 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 22 19:04 |
| cubezzz | I can't complain | Mar 22 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | Unions don't provide job security, in fact, they have been doing quite the opposite lately | Mar 22 19:05 |
| satipera | than representation in the work place I meant | Mar 22 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | Union labor can't compete with foreign labor | Mar 22 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | and jobs go bye bye | Mar 22 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | Union workers can be fired just as easy as non-Union, especially when the company goes under or offshores | Mar 22 19:05 |
| satipera | That is the big question, what does the world do with all the labour it does not need | Mar 22 19:06 |
| cubezzz | you just have to adapt | Mar 22 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: So assume I'm the manager of a unionized Walmart, right (none exist, but lets pretend) | Mar 22 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | You work at that store. | Mar 22 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | I come in pissed off one day and fire you. | Mar 22 19:06 |
| DaemonFC | What can the union do for you? | Mar 22 19:06 |
| satipera | Usually not a lot look at what Borders did to the nascent union there before they went bust | Mar 22 19:07 |
| DaemonFC | Do you A. Get your job back. B. Bring some legal trouble on the company. C. Piss and moan because nobody else is going on strike just for you and I'd close the store, fire all of them, and rehire and break the union anyway. | Mar 22 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | If you chose C, you're correct. | Mar 22 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart does not negotiate with unions. Walmart can, has, and will closed stores and cut departments to get rid of them. | Mar 22 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | Closing up for a few weeks and running a hiring drive isn't out of the question. | Mar 22 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | You may have inconvenienced that company, but you're still fired. | Mar 22 19:09 |
| satipera | Then what do you say about those that say government should stay out of it and it is up to the disputing parties to go to law? | Mar 22 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: I'd provoke a strike and fire them all. | Mar 22 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | just like I said | Mar 22 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | at that point I'm well within my rights. | Mar 22 19:10 |
| *WireWulf is now known as WireWulf-away | Mar 22 19:10 | |
| satipera | When the balance of power is out of kilter that is when abuse occurs | Mar 22 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | Your threats of a strike only matter to the point of how difficult you are to replace. | Mar 22 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | Re-opening a store is a small price to pay to send the message. | Mar 22 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | within 2 weeks, that store would be up and running again, fully staffed with new workers | Mar 22 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | and none of the old ones would ever be rehired | Mar 22 19:12 |
| satipera | The whole idea of capitalism is that it supposedly becomes more and more efficient. Do you believe this? | Mar 22 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | so congratulations to the union for getting 500 people fired | Mar 22 19:12 |
| DaemonFC | In a way, it is | Mar 22 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | it's also more environmentally friendly in the long run | Mar 22 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | as companies don't like to cause waste as it adds to their overhead | Mar 22 19:13 |
| satipera | I do not believe that, but let us accept it for the moment. | Mar 22 19:13 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart put in skylights and turns off half their lighting during the day | Mar 22 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart demanded that suppliers reduce packaging | Mar 22 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart innovated the spill-absorbing floor as a standard feature of every supercenter | Mar 22 19:15 |
| satipera | With 6 billion people on the planet and capitalism becoming supposedly more and more efficient, I return to my earlier question what are we all going to do? | Mar 22 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | it sucks up spills so nobody can slip on them, bust their ass, and sue | Mar 22 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | they are being more efficient | Mar 22 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | they also operate on a large scale, so they have better buying power | Mar 22 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | negotiating with suppliers to buy a billion of something gives you better unit price than a million of something | Mar 22 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | recycling thousands of tons of cardboard and plastic every year that other stores may have thrown in the garbage | Mar 22 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | charging stores 50-75 cents per break pack box they don't return to the Distribution Center | Mar 22 19:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Ubuntu One Music Store Public Beta Open! http://bit.ly/9khl6h | Mar 22 19:17 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu One Music Store Public Beta Begins | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 33.99 KB | Mar 22 19:17 |
| DaemonFC | leaving an empty 52 foot semi trailer docked to store pallets in until it's ready to go back | Mar 22 19:17 |
| satipera | You are talking about the minutia , I am talking about the trends, again what are we all going to do when capitalism is supposedly so efficient it does not need many of us? | Mar 22 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | because efficiency is in the details | Mar 22 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | every way you operate your business has an impact on that efficiency | Mar 22 19:18 |
| satipera | You are ignoring my question | Mar 22 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | and even a 1% savings can mean tens of millions of dollars | Mar 22 19:18 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: Robots? | Mar 22 19:19 |
| satipera | Robots are just another method of shedding costly labour | Mar 22 19:20 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] The Ubuntu One Music Store is live in Lucid! Go test! Announce: http://bit.ly/cKSh02 Testers FAQ: http://bit.ly/9SIDLJ #ubuntu | Mar 22 19:20 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu One Blog » Blog Archive » Ubuntu One Music Store now in public beta .::. Size~: 11.78 KB | Mar 22 19:20 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: UbuntuOne/MusicStore - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 25.02 KB | Mar 22 19:20 |
| MinceR | robots are a way to hand menial labor off to entities that are well suited for it (by being nonsentient) | Mar 22 19:20 |
| satipera | Again, what do we do with all the people capitalism does not need? | Mar 22 19:21 |
| MinceR | we select people and reduce reproduction so that we'll have a smaller but highly intelligent population | Mar 22 19:24 |
| satipera | capitalism is ultimately a massive own goal, it needs to have a social conscience | Mar 22 19:24 |
| MinceR | let machines do all the work and leave the inventing, creating and relaxing for ourselves | Mar 22 19:24 |
| satipera | sorry mincer I was reading the text and not who was saying it. I assumed you were FC | Mar 22 19:25 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 22 19:25 |
| satipera | You are talking about redistribution and not capitalism | Mar 22 19:26 |
| satipera | My not very original point is that free markets are a myth and they are a myth because they do not work | Mar 22 19:28 |
| *jono has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) | Mar 22 19:30 | |
| MinceR | they work until people realize that they can be subverted :> | Mar 22 19:33 |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 19:34 | |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/25675032 "@schestowitz There are still some who are trying to bring coverage to all w/o enslaving everyone to the insurers." | Mar 22 19:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Walt Hucks (lnxwalt) 's status on Monday, 22-Mar-10 17:53:16 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.19 KB | Mar 22 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Glyn with another maddening headline: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Free-software-s-second-era-The-rise-and-fall-of-MySQL-959718.html | Mar 22 19:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Free software's second era: The rise and fall of MySQL - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 39.79 KB | Mar 22 19:34 |
| schestowitz | It's not like him to use some of his recent headline that spread FUD | Mar 22 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: I'm thinking like a business manager because I've been one at a couple of places | Mar 22 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | You really do have to admire some of the efficiencies that a company that scale can come up with. | Mar 22 19:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/21/russia-vladimir-putin-kaliningrad | Mar 22 19:37 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 'Day of Wrath' brings Russians on to the streets against Vladimir Putin |World news |The Observer .::. Size~: 72.26 KB | Mar 22 19:37 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Quick Acire and Python Snippets Guide - http://is.gd/aTiiK #ubuntu #python #opportunisticdevelopers | Mar 22 19:37 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Quick Acire and Python Snippets Guide | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 25.14 KB | Mar 22 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | But the law isn't sufficiently strong to allow a union to have teeth, especially if it covers unskilled workers that only take a few days to train. | Mar 22 19:38 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Format started a whole poll alienating GNU/FSF and now we end up with junk pieces from ECT. http://ur1.ca/r6t8 | Mar 22 19:38 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New name for ACTA: "Anti-Citizen Tyranny Agreement" | Mar 22 19:38 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Welcome to TechNewsWorld .::. Size~: 2.81 KB | Mar 22 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | That's not worth getting your paycheck docked for. | Mar 22 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | College graduates in a field that is in high demand form successful unions | Mar 22 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | High school dropouts working at Walmart don't | Mar 22 19:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=119421&catid=14 | Mar 22 19:40 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Walmart fires Michigan man for using medical marijuana | wzzm13.com | Grand Rapids, MI .::. Size~: 95.3 KB | Mar 22 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Against company policy. | Mar 22 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Mar 22 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Heh. http://altreligion.about.com/od/alternativereligionsaz/a/jedi_religion.htm | Mar 22 19:41 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Jediism - An Introduction to Jediism for Beginners .::. Size~: 21.3 KB | Mar 22 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Michigan is an At-Will employment state, meaning that the manager can fire you for almost anything | Mar 22 19:41 |
| schestowitz | As valid AS ANY other religion | Mar 22 19:41 |
| schestowitz | And as truthful | Mar 22 19:41 |
| schestowitz | http://buddhism.about.com/od/basicbuddhistteachings/tp/buddhismunfaq.htm | Mar 22 19:42 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Misunderstanding Buddhism - Things Most People Believe About Buddhism That Are Not True .::. Size~: 30.37 KB | Mar 22 19:42 |
| schestowitz | It would be funny to make up some more | Mar 22 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Yikes! [nsfw] http://afghanistan.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/18/shaming-her-in-laws-costs-19-year-old-her-nose-ears/ | Mar 22 19:43 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Afghanistan Crossroads - - CNN.com Blogs .::. Size~: 115.5 KB | Mar 22 19:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/18/gordon-brown-torture-guidelines | Mar 22 19:45 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gordon Brown breaks promise over torture guidelines |World news |The Guardian .::. Size~: 73.5 KB | Mar 22 19:45 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/09/detroit-looks-at-downsizing-to-save-city/ | Mar 22 19:45 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Detroit looks at downsizing to save city - Washington Times .::. Size~: 47.43 KB | Mar 22 19:45 |
| schestowitz | http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/15/over-half-your-news-is-spin/ "An exhaustive study of a week's output of 10 Australian newspapers found that 55% of the stories were planted by PR campaigns. " | Mar 22 19:46 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Over half your news is spin Crikey .::. Size~: 75.7 KB | Mar 22 19:46 |
| schestowitz | RMS: "The copyright industry is starting to regret its propaganda term "pirate". " | Mar 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | "Since I recognized it as propaganda, I have rejected it, preferring terms such as "unauthorized copying" and "forbidden sharing". However, the Pirate Parties are trying a different tack, turning it into a badge of defiance like "Yankee". Maybe this is partly responsible for making the term less appealing as propaganda. " | Mar 22 19:48 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/mar/18/digital-economy-bill-calculated-loss | Mar 22 19:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Is the music industry trying to write the digital economy bill? | Cory Doctorow |Technology |guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 135.1 KB | Mar 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | He wrongly called it "music indsutry" | Mar 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | Yankee Pirate Party ftw! | Mar 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | It's the RECORDING industry | Mar 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: Arrrrr you insane? | Mar 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | I have been called that... | Mar 22 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Mar 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/21/mps-targeted-undercover-sting | Mar 22 19:52 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: MPs targeted in undercover sting over cash for influence |Politics |The Observer .::. Size~: 71.58 KB | Mar 22 19:52 |
| schestowitz | "A group of MPs, including former ministers, have been targeted in an elaborate sting operation in which journalists set up a bogus lobbying company and offered to pay them in return for political influence." | Mar 22 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Bribes\ | Mar 22 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | "In Vermont, a Yankee is somebody who eats pie for breakfast." | Mar 22 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 19:54 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/comcast-labs-and-isc-release-open-source-software-to-facilitate-ipv6-transition-2010-03-18?reflink=MW_news_stmp | Mar 22 19:55 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Comcast Labs and ISC Release Open Source Software to Facilitate IPv6 Transition - MarketWatch .::. Size~: 78.44 KB | Mar 22 19:55 |
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| *Atlas2070 is now known as Ender2070 | Mar 22 19:56 | |
| schestowitz | 'v' | Mar 22 19:56 |
| schestowitz | '"Comcast has been a leader in IPv6 technology as well as a key contributor to the open source community in which IPv6 is based," said Paul Vixie, President of ISC. ' | Mar 22 19:56 |
| *Ender2070_ (~Ender2070@bas1-brampton13-1177973240.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 19:57 | |
| schestowitz | Windows Azure "(Disclaimer: I work at MSFT, but this post is my own, and I'm a pragmatist, not a zealot.) " | Mar 22 20:04 |
| schestowitz | What an asshole | Mar 22 20:04 |
| schestowitz | He implies other are zealots and he posts in a Linux thing | Mar 22 20:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linux.com/news/featured-blogs/158-jim-zemlin/294751-why-open-source-and-operations-matter-in-cloud-computing | Mar 22 20:05 |
| MinceR | pragmatism: advertising his employer's products makes his prospects of getting paid better. | Mar 22 20:08 |
| Ender2070 | lol | Mar 22 20:08 |
| MinceR | (who cares if he helps them wreck the industry he supposedly works in?) | Mar 22 20:08 |
| Ender2070 | he calls his own company MSFT | Mar 22 20:09 |
| Ender2070 | thats an insult afaik made up at slashdot because its their stock abbreviation, and they only understand money | Mar 22 20:10 |
| MinceR | not everyone knows it's an insult | Mar 22 20:10 |
| MinceR | (i didn't) | Mar 22 20:10 |
| Ender2070 | its a more mature way of saying M$ | Mar 22 20:10 |
| tessier_ | MSFT is shorter and the stock symbol. Lots of people do that. | Mar 22 20:10 |
| MinceR | it's a more masked way of saying m$, if at all | Mar 22 20:11 |
| Ender2070 | I know I use it because if I use m$ I get accused of being 13 | Mar 22 20:11 |
| MinceR | so if the m$ fanboys accuse you of being a zealot, you stop posting? | Mar 22 20:12 |
| Ender2070 | no | Mar 22 20:12 |
| MinceR | or you stop defending your views? | Mar 22 20:12 |
| Ender2070 | I still defend my views | Mar 22 20:12 |
| MinceR | they'll have to get used to the fact that not everyone loves and respects their beloved company. | Mar 22 20:12 |
| Ender2070 | if they call me anti microsoft, I can call them pro microsoft | Mar 22 20:13 |
| MinceR | not even if they're mature. | Mar 22 20:13 |
| Ender2070 | or that they are a microsoft apologist | Mar 22 20:13 |
| Ender2070 | the most exteme is war crimes supporter | Mar 22 20:13 |
| cubezzz | well | Mar 22 20:14 |
| cubezzz | we are anti microsoft :) | Mar 22 20:14 |
| Ender2070 | yeah I am for sure | Mar 22 20:14 |
| cubezzz | I am for certain | Mar 22 20:14 |
| Ender2070 | we're not all the same though | Mar 22 20:14 |
| MinceR | well, everyone who wants the IT industry to prosper is anti-m$ | Mar 22 20:14 |
| MinceR | unless they're grossly misguided | Mar 22 20:15 |
| cubezzz | I want more choice | Mar 22 20:15 |
| cubezzz | not endless computer stores with wintel only | Mar 22 20:15 |
| MinceR | (and think that planned economy under the rule of Steve the First is the way to go for this industry) | Mar 22 20:15 |
| cubezzz | e.g. we used to have Amiga, Atari... | Mar 22 20:16 |
| cubezzz | Acorn... | Mar 22 20:17 |
| cubezzz | all gone now | Mar 22 20:17 |
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| sebsebseb | ABCDEFG | Mar 22 20:17 |
| cubezzz | and of course iyonix is no longer produced | Mar 22 20:18 |
| Ender2070 | even OS/2 | Mar 22 20:18 |
| cubezzz | is OS/2 updated at all? | Mar 22 20:18 |
| Ender2070 | www.ecomstation.com | Mar 22 20:18 |
| cubezzz | oh and Sparc I think it's dead now | Mar 22 20:19 |
| sebsebseb | HIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ | Mar 22 20:20 |
| cubezzz | still alive: Sharp, Panasonic, Acer, Toshiba | Mar 22 20:20 |
| sebsebseb | Ö | Mar 22 20:20 |
| Ender2070 | eww acer sucks | Mar 22 20:20 |
| sebsebseb | Ä | Mar 22 20:20 |
| sebsebseb | Å | Mar 22 20:20 |
| *satipera has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Mar 22 20:21 | |
| sebsebseb | no it's the two Ä Å first then the Ö I think, in the Swedish alphabet. | Mar 22 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Ewww http://www.drdobbs.com/windows/224000149;jsessionid=UZCM4VXBJFTG3QE1GHPCKHWATMY32JVN Dr Dobbs is TechWeb now!!!!!!!!11 | Mar 22 20:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Dr Dobbs - Microsoft Announces Plans for HTML 5 Support, Open Source Committments .::. Size~: 63.46 KB | Mar 22 20:22 |
| sebsebseb | How is everyone today? | Mar 22 20:22 |
| cubezzz | can't complain | Mar 22 20:22 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yes Interent Explorer 9 will have HTML 5 support apparantly | Mar 22 20:22 |
| cubezzz | hmmmmm | Mar 22 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | of course for it to have proper HTML 5, support they must support it properly, and most of HTML 5. | Mar 22 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | or even all of HTML 5, but probably no browser will just support all of it 100% and how w3c want it. | Mar 22 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | They don't all do HTML 4.01 the same even for example. | Mar 22 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Not my point though | Mar 22 20:24 |
| Ender2070 | the w3c might change it | Mar 22 20:24 |
| Ender2070 | jeff jaffe | Mar 22 20:24 |
| schestowitz | I posted this to show there's a Microsoft tie | Mar 22 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Dr. Dobbs | Mar 22 20:24 |
| schestowitz | TechWeb | Mar 22 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh right well I haven't been on the article yet | Mar 22 20:24 |
| schestowitz | Jeff Jah-Feh! | Mar 22 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: also yeah some Microsoft poeple in w3c now. | Mar 22 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | plus Microsoft have been members for years, but pretty much just ignored w3c and did their own thing with IE. | Mar 22 20:25 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Looks like the Ubuntu One Music Store is getting a kicking. | Mar 22 20:25 | |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu One Music Store is getting a kicking? | Mar 22 20:25 |
| sebsebseb | What does that mean, they are getting rid of it? | Mar 22 20:25 |
| sebsebseb | Or it's being improved? | Mar 22 20:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.mantecabulletin.com/news/article/12653/ | Mar 22 20:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Manteca Bulletin - Purses open source of income for recession victim .::. Size~: 43.73 KB | Mar 22 20:26 |
| sebsebseb | oh yeah jono is in here, he can probably answer that | Mar 22 20:26 |
| schestowitz | he is busy | Mar 22 20:26 |
| schestowitz | Communicating with DaemonFOX telepathically | Mar 22 20:26 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: you mean using Empathy? | Mar 22 20:27 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh DeamonFOX not DeamonFC? | Mar 22 20:27 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Mar 22 20:27 |
| schestowitz | No, telepathy | Mar 22 20:27 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah Empathy uses that telepathy thing | Mar 22 20:27 |
| schestowitz | apt-get install telepthy && troll jono -h | Mar 22 20:27 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/mar/01/bbc-iplayer | Mar 22 20:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC's iPlayer verification blocks open source software |Technology |guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 108.86 KB | Mar 22 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Your tax quids at work | Mar 22 20:28 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Tax right, not everyone pays tax yet, since the age, or benefits or whatever. Do you pay tax? | Mar 22 20:29 |
| MinceR | Ender2070: OS/2 is dead | Mar 22 20:29 |
| MinceR | the company selling eComStation couldn't even get the source code, afaik | Mar 22 20:29 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: right so he's talking to DeamonFC? | Mar 22 20:31 |
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| DaemonFC | my water pump just blew up | Mar 22 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | wonderful | Mar 22 20:36 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Assholes at Bean & Bean told me free wifi is not free. #fail #lie | Mar 22 20:37 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] At least some friendly neighbour wiith a linksys router in defaultmode was around | Mar 22 20:39 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Annoy Rupert Murdoch, break the news paywall ie only for the moment unfortunately. Read about at inquirer http:/http://is.gd/aTn8X | Mar 22 20:55 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Annoy rupert murdoch, break the news paywall - The Inquirer .::. Size~: 56.63 KB | Mar 22 20:55 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Yes yes I know BBC, anyway what the? I am pretty sure not that long ago France and Germeny were both recommending Firefox to loads of people, and now Germany do this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8580716.stm | Mar 22 20:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.89 KB | Mar 22 20:57 |
| sebsebseb | also no browser is 100% secure, well maybe Lynx or something like that, text only browsers, but probably not even those. | Mar 22 20:58 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Also I think sometimes BBC has had articles where they are telling people it's good. | Mar 22 21:00 |
| sebsebseb | I only just started reading the acrticle itself when commenting here, so quite a lot yet to read, it's the headline that got me. | Mar 22 21:00 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: ok so something in there about not just changing browser when there is a security hole as well. | Mar 22 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | hehehe | Mar 22 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | I just leaked the fact that that guy that lives with my crazy neighbor is living over there | Mar 22 21:03 |
| DaemonFC | landlord isn't happy, but I just mentioned it in passing :) | Mar 22 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | The head line says this, but the article doesn't exactly say it. Silly BBC in this case. Also the article confirms the BBC sillyness. "Firefox was not immediately available for comment." Of course not it's a browser how can it be available for comment? They should have put Mozilla, or maybe being more exact something like this, the Mozlla Organisation the Mozilla Corporation. The Mozilla CEO | Mar 22 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: lives over where? | Mar 22 21:04 |
| DaemonFC | with that crazy neighbor lady | Mar 22 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | he's not on the lease | Mar 22 21:05 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: maybe they speak to wolves | Mar 22 21:05 |
| DaemonFC | and he's hiding out from the cops | Mar 22 21:05 |
| sebsebseb | above that was meant to say, the ending of the article confirms the BBC sillyness. | Mar 22 21:05 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: so did he rape her? | Mar 22 21:05 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: uh? | Mar 22 21:05 |
| schestowitz | While she, as you say, shaved his back (EWWWWW!!!!) | Mar 22 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Oops | Mar 22 21:06 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I am not following | Mar 22 21:06 |
| schestowitz | I meant it to be @ DaemonFOX | Mar 22 21:06 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=12357&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+zdnet%2Fperlow+%28ZDNet+Tech+Broiler%29 | Mar 22 21:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple iPad Adopters: Prepare for Content Punishment | Tech Broiler | ZDNet.com .::. Size~: 163.61 KB | Mar 22 21:06 |
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| MinceR | :> | Mar 22 21:07 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] On this day in 1994, Pantera released Far Beyond Driven. The album debuted at #1 on the Billboard chart. http://bit.ly/ah5jOl - love it! | Mar 22 21:11 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Pantera Official Store» Far Beyond Driven CD .::. Size~: 14.19 KB | Mar 22 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7IT81h200 | Mar 22 21:20 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@stephintoronto kid may be cute but..does not entitle u to cut in at starbucks w SUV sized stroller /c'est la Starbucks, try independent? | Mar 22 21:35 | |
| schestowitz | This one is funny. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irVqVKdiohE | Mar 22 21:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Atheist now accepts Intelligent Design .::. Size~: 110.24 KB | Mar 22 21:35 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@scottEweinberg @reeldistraction debate about Act 3 of #ALIEN. He has a major prob w/ alien "sleeping" in the shuttle // blog the details? | Mar 22 21:36 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] ppl seem to think I should agree that knocking my beautiful century-old house down for high density housing is a good idea. Err, no. #greed | Mar 22 21:39 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Dear #apple, you may need to make #spotlight less aggressive. I think I just caught it indexing my #TimeMachine backup partition. #osx | Mar 22 21:45 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Annoy Rupert Murdoch, break the news paywall ie only for the moment unfortunately. Read about at inquirer, correct link. http://is.gd/aTn8X | Mar 22 22:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Annoy rupert murdoch, break the news paywall - The Inquirer .::. Size~: 57.7 KB | Mar 22 22:02 |
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| DaemonFC | I wonder if UPS just ships it around the whole god damned country a few times to make it take longer if you don't buy their most expensive shipping | Mar 22 22:11 |
| DaemonFC | I really do | Mar 22 22:11 |
| Balrog_ | DaemonFC: no they don't | Mar 22 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | no, but I really do wonder why every fulfillment warehouse has to be on the Pacific coast | Mar 22 22:12 |
| Balrog_ | well, not exactly | Mar 22 22:12 |
| Balrog_ | what they do is put it on a truck that makes MANY stops | Mar 22 22:12 |
| Balrog_ | cheap China airmail works the same | Mar 22 22:13 |
| *jweyrich has quit (Quit: gym) | Mar 22 22:13 | |
| DaemonFC | three time zones to the West, and straight on til morning | Mar 22 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | right? :) | Mar 22 22:13 |
| oiaohm | How many towns/cities in that distance. | Mar 22 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | thousands | Mar 22 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | tends of thousands | Mar 22 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | *tens | Mar 22 22:14 |
| oiaohm | Because you can bet there will be a stop at least 50 percent of them. | Mar 22 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | 03/19/2010 20:48:00ORIGIN SCAN[I]CERRITOS, CA, US | Mar 22 22:15 |
| oiaohm | When it turns up like 6 months latter it took the wrong trunk. | Mar 22 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | 03/22/2010 13:49:00ARRIVAL SCAN[I]LOUISVILLE, KY, US | Mar 22 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | that's where it's at now | Mar 22 22:15 |
| oiaohm | Arrival scan means the package has been scanned so handled at taht location. | Mar 22 22:16 |
| oiaohm | All these things cost time DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:16 |
| oiaohm | Tracking is one of the major things that make movements slower. | Mar 22 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | 214 miles south | Mar 22 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | round about | Mar 22 22:17 |
| oiaohm | Lenght of road is not the issue. | Mar 22 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | it's how many stops | Mar 22 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | I know | Mar 22 22:17 |
| oiaohm | Number of stops is and how many times it has to scanned. | Mar 22 22:17 |
| oiaohm | Scanning is a time consuming process. | Mar 22 22:18 |
| oiaohm | Everything basically moved around in the back of truck at best. | Mar 22 22:18 |
| oiaohm | At worst everything unloaded and reloaded. | Mar 22 22:18 |
| oiaohm | Also the other cost is how many interconnects it has todo. DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:19 |
| oiaohm | Ie change trucks. | Mar 22 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, what sucks is if they mark it "signature required" and you have to drive up to Fort Wayne to get it | Mar 22 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | UPS doesn't bother to find your apartment, they just say nobody was home | Mar 22 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | and take it on up there | Mar 22 22:19 |
| oiaohm | Had transport company say the same to me. | Mar 22 22:20 |
| Balrog_ | UPS is annoying | Mar 22 22:20 |
| Balrog_ | so is FedEx | Mar 22 22:20 |
| oiaohm | They did not like being pointed out that I had evidence that I was in all day and they did not turn up at all. | Mar 22 22:20 |
| oiaohm | The problem of not turning up on the day when testing a secuirty system for a customer with them inspecting how it working. | Mar 22 22:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Upgrading the Aleutia T1 to Ubuntu Lucid. I don't expect any issues. | Mar 22 22:21 | |
| oiaohm | Never had a problem since like what you say DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, how much tax is Ballmer going to have to pay towards the health care subsidies of the poor? | Mar 22 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | it's an additional 3.5% tax on income over $200,000 | Mar 22 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | and Microsoft will be taxed on his "Cadillac" insurance | Mar 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | How much income does Ballmer make over $200,000? | Mar 22 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | satipera: Oddly enough, Walmart wanted this bill to pass | Mar 22 22:25 |
| satipera | how so | Mar 22 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | cause now they can shove more of their own employees onto Medicaid | Mar 22 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | isn't that something? | Mar 22 22:25 |
| satipera | yes like taxpayers here subsidise low paid jobs for the employers | Mar 22 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | if that employee is "part time", they can get away with shoving them onto Medicaid without paying a fine for doing it | Mar 22 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | and the Medicaid income limit has gone up by 33% | Mar 22 22:26 |
| oiaohm | Here we have multiable. | Mar 22 22:26 |
| oiaohm | If you are over 150 000 income and you don't have private insurance you have to pay double to use goverment provided medical. | Mar 22 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | Poverty guideline is $10,830 for one person. 33% above that is $14,403.90 | Mar 22 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of Walmart workers make under that | Mar 22 22:28 |
| oiaohm | Also our high end tax rate 45 percent. | Mar 22 22:28 |
| oiaohm | Problem is our tax law has too many loop holes to avoid paying. | Mar 22 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | You pay your workers under $276 a week, you get to dump them on Medicaid | Mar 22 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | of course Walmart is going to love this | Mar 22 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Recently 1 loophole was closed. Place money over seas or money made over seas now has to be counted here. | Mar 22 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | most of their employees are just under that | Mar 22 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | especially since they have mainly part timers now | Mar 22 22:29 |
| oiaohm | Really look closer at your tax law Ballmer would have good accountants. | Mar 22 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | This is a "Dump your poor part time workers on Medicaid and get away with it" law | Mar 22 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 22:30 |
| oiaohm | One of the most redickulas ones was packer here a billion are. Who turned out to be getting a tax refund for all of his tax due to loop holes. | Mar 22 22:30 |
| oiaohm | Of course a lot have been closed since then. | Mar 22 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | What's worse is that Walmart could say that your Medicaid benefits compensate you fro working 32 hours instead of 40 | Mar 22 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 22 22:31 |
| satipera | I remember him | Mar 22 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | they have been caught handing out papers explaining how to get on food stamps and Medicaid before | Mar 22 22:31 |
| oiaohm | If it legally right why not. | Mar 22 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | the new income limit is at least more fair in that single men with no kids would get turned away more often than a baby machine welfare mom | Mar 22 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 22 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | under the existing system that is | Mar 22 22:32 |
| oiaohm | not like working 8 hours longer does you body any good. | Mar 22 22:33 |
| oiaohm | I would put that under caring for staff. | Mar 22 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | It wouldn't kill people to work 40 hours a week | Mar 22 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | people used to have to put up with 70 hour weeks | Mar 22 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | I've had to do 60+ hour weeks many times | Mar 22 22:33 |
| MinceR | would you like to work 70h every week? | Mar 22 22:34 |
| oiaohm | And a lot that worked 70 a week doing like shelf stacking now have damage joints. DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:34 |
| oiaohm | Basically human body can only repair wear and tear so fast. | Mar 22 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | trapped 60 hours under florescent lighting, pecking away at a computer, bitching at people, getting bitched at, and then staying over to stock shelves because we were over payroll and I had t osend that guy home | Mar 22 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | and not matter how many hours I was there, I only got paid for 48 | Mar 22 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | *no | Mar 22 22:35 |
| oiaohm | We were stupid about this a long time ago and it did not really matter because we were not going to live long enough | Mar 22 22:35 |
| oiaohm | Longer life equals longer you have to make body work for. | Mar 22 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | 40 hour work week should be standard | Mar 22 22:36 |
| MinceR | it is :> | Mar 22 22:36 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/03/sailors-beware-p2p-piracy-will-sink-your-jobs-by-2015.ars << Great how long before this is used to attack Open Source | Mar 22 22:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Sailors beware: P2P piracy will sink your jobs by 2015 .::. Size~: 33.32 KB | Mar 22 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | overtime should really be more like time + 3/4ths | Mar 22 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Depends on work DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:36 |
| oiaohm | Here 32 hours is for anything requiring lots of joint work. | Mar 22 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but that means less pay | Mar 22 22:37 |
| satipera | We are only really designed to last until the grandchildren are old enough to look after themselves | Mar 22 22:37 |
| oiaohm | Sitting at a computer can damage joints in hands. | Mar 22 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | less hours, less pay | Mar 22 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | living wages generally assume 40 hour work week | Mar 22 22:38 |
| oiaohm | Security guards are allow todo up to 50 hours a week no problems. | Mar 22 22:38 |
| oiaohm | Ie lot of the time sitting in car or standing still. | Mar 22 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | I always tried to have full time employees | Mar 22 22:38 |
| oiaohm | Or sitting watching screens. | Mar 22 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | lower turnover | Mar 22 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, anyone can be replaced, but having 2-3 people quit each week gets annoying | Mar 22 22:39 |
| DaemonFC | and with part timers, you get that | Mar 22 22:39 |
| oiaohm | Training and getting to know how trustable they are costs a lot of time. | Mar 22 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | you give someone 28 hours a week at $8 an hour, nobody stays for long | Mar 22 22:40 |
| oiaohm | Something cheep scate businesses don't take into account. | Mar 22 22:40 |
| oiaohm | A extra dollar per hour no to have turning over can be profitable. | Mar 22 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | just having fewer employees with more hours each makes productivity go up | Mar 22 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is the law expects some kind of benefits package for full time employees | Mar 22 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | so pressure is on to systematically fire the people most likely to cost the insurance plan the most money | Mar 22 22:41 |
| oiaohm | Hmm does the law over there have the loop hole of two different job titles? | Mar 22 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | they can't say it that way or it would be illegal | Mar 22 22:42 |
| oiaohm | Doing 2 different things DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: Well, it's possible, but you have to look out | Mar 22 22:42 |
| oiaohm | So they are part time on both so not full time. | Mar 22 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | calling someone a supervisor makes them management in the eyes of labor law | Mar 22 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | also, Walmart slips you a little bit of stock when you work there | Mar 22 22:43 |
| oiaohm | Its like ones here. | Mar 22 22:43 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Byers suspended from parliamentary Labour Party | Mar 22 22:43 | |
| DaemonFC | not a lot, just enough to say you're management if a union tries to organize | Mar 22 22:43 |
| oiaohm | They have shelf stacks and check out operators and so on. | Mar 22 22:43 |
| oiaohm | they even have a class for floor walker. | Mar 22 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | "Look, he has a share of stock! He can't be in a union!" | Mar 22 22:43 |
| oiaohm | Each are independant jobs. DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:43 |
| oiaohm | so avoiding the full time problem. | Mar 22 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | Employers also like to call you an independent contractor to fuck you out of your rights under labor law | Mar 22 22:44 |
| oiaohm | Here that is harder. | Mar 22 22:44 |
| oiaohm | to be a independant contractor you have to supply gear. | Mar 22 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | well, if you have two job classifications, you're still full time if you go over 34 hours | Mar 22 22:44 |
| oiaohm | To be correct more gear than what you can carry on a push bike legally. DaemonFC | Mar 22 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | If Walmart gives you two job classifications, you get paid for the one you spend more time doing | Mar 22 22:45 |
| oiaohm | If you can carry all you need for work on a push bike here you legally cannot be a independant contractor. | Mar 22 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | so if you have 16 hours as a "Customer Service Supervisor" and 24 as a cashier | Mar 22 22:45 |
| DaemonFC | you get paid as a cashier | Mar 22 22:45 |
| MinceR | why "push bike"? | Mar 22 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | they like to do that so they can get some cheap coverage on the regular supervisor's nights off | Mar 22 22:46 |
| DaemonFC | they'll tell you you're being "trained for when a position comes open" | Mar 22 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Australian law sometimes it was someones bright idea MinceR | Mar 22 22:46 |
| satipera | Mincer, because people get off them to push them up a hill | Mar 22 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Basically if you can get what you need to the job under human power. MinceR | Mar 22 22:47 |
| oiaohm | Before push bikes being here in numbers it what you could carry on foot. | Mar 22 22:48 |
| satipera | Missed that, thought it was a tangential question | Mar 22 22:48 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem DaemonFC Here the loop hold Customer Service Supervisor and cashier would have been independant pay slips. | Mar 22 22:49 |
| *jono has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | Mar 22 22:54 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @satipera Annoy Rupert Murdoch, break the news paywall ie only for the moment unfortunately. http://is.gd/aTn8X | Mar 22 22:59 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Annoy rupert murdoch, break the news paywall - The Inquirer .::. Size~: 57.63 KB | Mar 22 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: So two separate checks? | Mar 22 23:00 |
| oiaohm | Yep DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | That would be nice, stop a lot of Walmart abuse | Mar 22 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | basically they get to work you up to 19 hours in the supervisor job without giving you the 75 cent an hour bonus | Mar 22 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | two shifts is $12, but it is money they should be paying you | Mar 22 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | you know? | Mar 22 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | I've never agreed with that practice, they did it on every shift to save $30 of payroll a day | Mar 22 23:02 |
| DaemonFC | penny pinchers | Mar 22 23:02 |
| oiaohm | Yep if it legal works it also reduced turnover. | Mar 22 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | well, that's just the front end though | Mar 22 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Nothing makes staff unhappy faster than thinking they are not getting paid for work. | Mar 22 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Now even if it works out they are getting paid less but it appears to have paid them every hour they are happer. | Mar 22 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Staff stealing rates drop as well. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | Yes, most retail theft is done by the employees | Mar 22 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | about two-thirds of it | Mar 22 23:04 |
| oiaohm | Happier staff the less they steal. | Mar 22 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Here no so much. | Mar 22 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Most staff in super markets are happy. | Mar 22 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | It's not really the customers you have to watch so much as your own employees | Mar 22 23:05 |
| oiaohm | Is about 90 percent customers who have taken goods. | Mar 22 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | they start finding ways to rip you off little by little | Mar 22 23:05 |
| oiaohm | So only 10 percent staff | Mar 22 23:05 |
| oiaohm | You are bring 20 percent on the business buy staff being unhappy. | Mar 22 23:06 |
| oiaohm | and too much staff turn over. | Mar 22 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | What Wal-Mart won't tell you is that most of the cameras in their stores are just empty plastic globes | Mar 22 23:06 |
| oiaohm | Ok way more. | Mar 22 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | the only ones guaranteed to be real are in Cosmetics and Electronics | Mar 22 23:06 |
| oiaohm | So you mean staff steal rates are over 60 percent. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Mar 22 23:07 |
| oiaohm | Eep | Mar 22 23:07 |
| DaemonFC | Sometimes it's the managers | Mar 22 23:07 |
| oiaohm | They need to come to Australia and see how woolworths and coles does it. | Mar 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | There was a Tire and Lube Express manager in Mooresville, driving up to the Indianapolis downtown stores right? | Mar 22 23:08 |
| oiaohm | 15 percent rate due to staff is called bad. | Mar 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | he'd charge out inventory saying his store was out | Mar 22 23:08 |
| oiaohm | 10 is call resonable. | Mar 22 23:08 |
| oiaohm | 5 percent is called good. | Mar 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | never charge it to his own store | Mar 22 23:08 |
| DaemonFC | Loss Prevention found it on eBay | Mar 22 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | $50,000 worth of theft right there | Mar 22 23:09 |
| oiaohm | I guess he was working more hours than he was paid. | Mar 22 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | Our store manager would steal display models for herself after we were done using them in store | Mar 22 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | she's claims it out as "customer destroyed it" or something | Mar 22 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | have the employees load it in the back of her pickup truck | Mar 22 23:10 |
| oiaohm | Ok that is part stupidity. | Mar 22 23:10 |
| oiaohm | Here store managers can request store display models at no cost. | Mar 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | yes, I sent the security recordings of that to the District Manager | Mar 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | anonymously | Mar 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | she was fired | Mar 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | have to watch out, she could have been part of a theft ring | Mar 22 23:11 |
| *WireWulf-away is now known as WireWulf | Mar 22 23:11 | |
| DaemonFC | the DM might have been in on it for all I knew | Mar 22 23:11 |
| oiaohm | So no motivation to steal the display models. | Mar 22 23:11 |
| oiaohm | If you ask for it legally you get a warnitery. | Mar 22 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | it's also considered theft if you mark something down and then buy it | Mar 22 23:12 |
| oiaohm | This is perventive theift control. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | even if the price was reasonable | Mar 22 23:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically you have your complete system screwed up. | Mar 22 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | they don't nitpick on the little things | Mar 22 23:12 |
| oiaohm | No wonder they are losing so much. | Mar 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: I used to mark down groceries appropriately, right? | Mar 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | for closeout | Mar 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | and then immediately stock up on the good stuff after my shift | Mar 22 23:13 |
| oiaohm | That is required here. | Mar 22 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | well, technically I wasn't allowed to do that | Mar 22 23:14 |
| oiaohm | Coles and woolworths trades on being providers of fresh food. | Mar 22 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | but really I wasn't doing wrong | Mar 22 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | so nobody made an issue | Mar 22 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | now if I marked them all down to five cents | Mar 22 23:14 |
| oiaohm | So end of shift old stock that has not be shifted has to be discounted. | Mar 22 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | that would have been a problem | Mar 22 23:14 |
| oiaohm | Yes people on budget learn when end of shift is. | Mar 22 23:14 |
| oiaohm | Also selling stuff past usable date for money here lands stores in trouble as well. | Mar 22 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Ie they are not legally allowed to sell stuff past use by dates. | Mar 22 23:15 |
| oiaohm | Yes another form of internal store kick back we have to staff. | Mar 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | have to throw it out, claims it | Mar 22 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | charge back the company that makes it | Mar 22 23:16 |
| oiaohm | Its close to expired staff get it if they want it. | Mar 22 23:16 |
| oiaohm | No reverse claim system here DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:16 |
| oiaohm | If you don't sell it the problem is all yours. | Mar 22 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart's supplier agreement for groceries states that the supplier refunds Walmart for anything that expires or was damaged too much to sell (even if Walmart did it) | Mar 22 23:17 |
| oiaohm | Would not be legal here. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | also, if you eat something that should be going to claims, you get fired | Mar 22 23:17 |
| oiaohm | If item was delivied defective yes is legal. | Mar 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | of course I've broken that rule before | Mar 22 23:18 |
| oiaohm | If it was delvied fine it completely the yours to deal with. | Mar 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | there was one time in particular where a small bit of a key lime pie got crushed in shipping | Mar 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | so I stood in the freezer and chowed down on frozen key lime pie | Mar 22 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | that was lunch, lol | Mar 22 23:19 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:19 |
| oiaohm | Temptation. | Mar 22 23:19 |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 23:19 | |
| DaemonFC | yeaqh, it was good | Mar 22 23:19 |
| oiaohm | Here staff have no reason to fall for temptation. | Mar 22 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | went to the breakroom and washed it down with some coffee | Mar 22 23:19 |
| oiaohm | There is a stack of goods that are about to expire they are more than welcome to eat. | Mar 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: It was damaged | Mar 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | it wasn't able to be sold | Mar 22 23:20 |
| oiaohm | Eating damaged not allowed. | Mar 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | I threw the container in the claims bin | Mar 22 23:20 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] there needlled "Rumpy & Pumpy"s to be a comedy double act called Rumpy & Pumpy, with Mr Chumbly Warner voices and lots of swearing | Mar 22 23:20 | |
| oiaohm | Because you could get sick. | Mar 22 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | Walmart got paid | Mar 22 23:20 |
| oiaohm | you think of it if all the stuff that has like 1 day left to expirely | Mar 22 23:20 |
| oiaohm | If staff were allowed to eat it. | Mar 22 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Really could staff eat it all at times. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: It was froze solid, just some idiot crushed a bit of it | Mar 22 23:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] wow choqok REALLY helps you make typos, welldone that client | Mar 22 23:21 | |
| DaemonFC | the policy is there so people don't break open and eat perfectly good merchandise | Mar 22 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't do that | Mar 22 23:21 |
| oiaohm | Here being close to expire it not perfectly good merchandise any more. | Mar 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | there was also the time I ate a container of Edys Dibs | Mar 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | little balls of chocolate covered ice cream with carmel and nuts in them | Mar 22 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | those are good | Mar 22 23:22 |
| oiaohm | And that stuff that does expire normally goes to a form of free shop. | Mar 22 23:22 |
| oiaohm | Ie turn up there with a health care card and take what you want for nothing. | Mar 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | manufacturers print the expiration date a few months ahead of when it'll actually hurt you | Mar 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | especially on canned goods | Mar 22 23:23 |
| oiaohm | That was to prevent dumpster diving. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:23 |
| oiaohm | Exactly the food is safe to eat still. | Mar 22 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | there is no dumpster diving at Walmart | Mar 22 23:24 |
| oiaohm | Shops selling the expired goods have information from the manufacturers on that. | Mar 22 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | the trash compactor and dumpster are locked away | Mar 22 23:24 |
| cubezzz | dumpster diving rings a bell | Mar 22 23:24 |
| cubezzz | oh yeah, Gates and Basic ;-) | Mar 22 23:24 |
| cubezzz | tsk tsk | Mar 22 23:24 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: basically better handle waste less thiefing. | Mar 22 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: Why do you think I was pissed when Marsh closed? | Mar 22 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | I used to go there and load up on canned goods | Mar 22 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | now there's nowhere to dumpster dive at | Mar 22 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | well, not only that | Mar 22 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't draw animals in | Mar 22 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | possums, raccoons, stray dogs... | Mar 22 23:25 |
| oiaohm | Australia. What animals | Mar 22 23:26 |
| cubezzz | how long is it safe to keep canned food? | Mar 22 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Lot of bins here dogs cannot get into. | Mar 22 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the food cubezzz | Mar 22 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: Usually a year or more | Mar 22 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes up to 3 years | Mar 22 23:26 |
| oiaohm | Some canned food is good for 100 years | Mar 22 23:26 |
| cubezzz | wow | Mar 22 23:26 |
| oiaohm | If you would trust eating it that old. | Mar 22 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | canned tune is good for 3 | Mar 22 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | canned corn is good for 2 | Mar 22 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | *tuna | Mar 22 23:27 |
| *jono has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) | Mar 22 23:27 | |
| cubezzz | I haven't noticed expiration dates on cans | Mar 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | actually, I think some canned tuna is good for 5 years | Mar 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | cause I swear I bought that stuff in 2007 | Mar 22 23:27 |
| oiaohm | It more comes down to 3 factors. | Mar 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | and it says good til 2011 | Mar 22 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | err 4 years | Mar 22 23:27 |
| oiaohm | 1 was the stuff canned hot. | Mar 22 23:27 |
| oiaohm | Ie cooked. | Mar 22 23:27 |
| cubezzz | do they even print the year on the can? | Mar 22 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, canned hash is only good for a year | Mar 22 23:28 |
| oiaohm | That expands the self life a lot. | Mar 22 23:28 |
| oiaohm | Stuff like corn that is packed cold has a short live. | Mar 22 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: You mean you've never played the fruitcake game? | Mar 22 23:28 |
| oiaohm | But pre cooked soops and the like have a lot longer self life. | Mar 22 23:28 |
| cubezzz | ah no | Mar 22 23:28 |
| cubezzz | interesting | Mar 22 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Next if it is cooked will it eat it way out can. | Mar 22 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | You get a fruitcake for Christmas one year, you re-wrap it and give it to someone else next year | Mar 22 23:29 |
| cubezzz | no,no I don't do that :) | Mar 22 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Ie stuff like tomatoos should be in bottles not cans. | Mar 22 23:29 |
| cubezzz | actually I stopped eating fruitcake :) | Mar 22 23:29 |
| tessier_ | cubezzz: Why on earth did you ever start? | Mar 22 23:29 |
| cubezzz | tradition I guess | Mar 22 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: Fruitcake will survive a nuclear war | Mar 22 23:30 |
| *tessier_ makes a note to stock his doomsday bunker with fruitcake | Mar 22 23:30 | |
| oiaohm | I have a historic store here that has some 150 year old cans on shelf. | Mar 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | In theory they are safe to eat. | Mar 22 23:30 |
| schestowitz | fruitcake fallout... | Mar 22 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't | Mar 22 23:30 |
| oiaohm | I am not going to be the one to find out. | Mar 22 23:30 |
| cubezzz | ah, I think after 10 years I wouldn't want to try it | Mar 22 23:31 |
| oiaohm | One is a canned chrismas pudding. | Mar 22 23:31 |
| tessier_ | schestowitz: That's no joking matter, one could be seriously injured by a falling fruitcake. | Mar 22 23:31 |
| cubezzz | I'm pretty sure I have some cans from 1996 | Mar 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | tessier_: causes nausea | Mar 22 23:31 |
| oiaohm | Yep 150 year old chrismas pudding could be scary. | Mar 22 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Elaine found out | Mar 22 23:32 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, how about 50 year old canned coke? :) | Mar 22 23:32 |
| schestowitz | 1 day old coke is also bad for you | Mar 22 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | fresh fruitcake will plug you up worse than maple syrup and peanut butter | Mar 22 23:32 |
| cubezzz | maybe it would eat out of the can before that :) | Mar 22 23:32 |
| oiaohm | coke a cola breaks down and eats it way out can. | Mar 22 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | nuh uh | Mar 22 23:32 |
| oiaohm | No way I would want to be trying to drink it. | Mar 22 23:32 |
| schestowitz | It's also bad for others. http://killercoke.org/http://killercoke.org/ | Mar 22 23:32 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 22 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Oops. http://killercoke.org/ | Mar 22 23:33 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, find a bottle of coke old enough and it might have cocaine in it :) | Mar 22 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm going to send Ballmer a fruitcake this Christmas | Mar 22 23:33 |
| schestowitz | I thought of that too, but it's old than 50 | Mar 22 23:33 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: the fruit cake game does not get played here. | Mar 22 23:33 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: send him yourself? :"-) | Mar 22 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | with any luck he'll eat it and plug himself up | Mar 22 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | die of an impaction | Mar 22 23:34 |
| schestowitz | He was on a diet for a while | Mar 22 23:34 |
| schestowitz | And shaved his head | Mar 22 23:34 |
| oiaohm | Our loins chrismas fruit cakes are too nice not to eat. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Now he's back to being *ahem* 'healthy;' | Mar 22 23:34 |
| oiaohm | And would kinda mold badly in 12 months. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:34 |
| oiaohm | They are almost 50 percent fruit | Mar 22 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: There's no such thing as a good fruitcake | Mar 22 23:34 |
| oiaohm | Almost as soft as mud cake. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Almost as soft as mud cake. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:35 |
| MinceR | there's no food that's "too nice not to eat" | Mar 22 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | what is a mud cake? | Mar 22 23:35 |
| tessier_ | Coke eating its way out of the can reminds me of a classic 80's horror movie: http://amazon.imdb.com/title/tt0090094/ | Mar 22 23:36 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Stuff (1985) .::. Size~: 67.96 KB | Mar 22 23:36 |
| oiaohm | Over done chocolate cake almost more chocolate than cake. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:36 |
| cubezzz | let me guess, the stuff? :) | Mar 22 23:36 |
| cubezzz | I rented that :) | Mar 22 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: Hmmm, now that might be too good not to eat | Mar 22 23:36 |
| tessier_ | Me too. In 1986 or so. | Mar 22 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | NOM NOM NOM MUDCAKE!!!!!!!! | Mar 22 23:36 |
| tessier_ | Well, my mom did. | Mar 22 23:36 |
| cubezzz | "Are you eating it or is it eating you?" | Mar 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm: My favorite are those mint chocolate cakes, the ones that Andes makes | Mar 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | mmmmmm | Mar 22 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | NOM NOM NOM!!! | Mar 22 23:37 |
| oiaohm | http://www.exclusivelyfood.com.au/2006/07/chocolate-mud-cake-recipe.html << ok that is a resonable version Little light on the choclate. DaemonFC | Mar 22 23:37 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Exclusively Food: Chocolate Mud Cake Recipe .::. Size~: 186.68 KB | Mar 22 23:37 |
| oiaohm | Its not quite the nice 50/50 number. Ie 50 percent choclate 50 percent everything else to give it texture like a cake. | Mar 22 23:39 |
| cubezzz | chocolate seems to have a long shelf life | Mar 22 23:39 |
| oiaohm | coco is insane. | Mar 22 23:40 |
| MinceR | what's the point of being light on chocolate? | Mar 22 23:40 |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 22 23:40 | |
| oiaohm | Does not make as big of mess of you as true mud cake does. MinceR | Mar 22 23:40 |
| oiaohm | Ie its called mud cake because after eating it you can look like you have been trying to eat mud. | Mar 22 23:41 |
| MinceR | that's what utensils are for. :> | Mar 22 23:41 |
| oiaohm | Even so. there is that much choclate and due to the cake ingrendents it lower melting bit a pice you are going to get stuff on face. | Mar 22 23:42 |
| oiaohm | If you careful with utensils yes you can eat it without ending up a level 10 mess. | Mar 22 23:42 |
| oiaohm | There is also some really hot chill power in the store here as well that goes back to when the store was found that no one is game to touch either. | Mar 22 23:43 |
| oiaohm | Even that it would still be techincally fine. | Mar 22 23:43 |
| oiaohm | Dryed product air tight can store for ages. | Mar 22 23:44 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] ♺ @humphreybc: @jonobacon @TheUbuntuManual 284 followers - can we make it to 500 before the final release on the 29th April? | Mar 22 23:44 | |
| cubezzz | how about stuff like pasta? | Mar 22 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | heh, my cousin is selling me her car | Mar 22 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | yay | Mar 22 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | now I can have them haul mine off for the scrap metal | Mar 22 23:44 |
| cubezzz | anyway I usually eat the food I buy within a month | Mar 22 23:45 |
| oiaohm | pasta comes appart over time and becomes a power. Ok techically still eatable. | Mar 22 23:45 |
| oiaohm | That makes the rest look friendly. | Mar 22 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I drink Pepsi stuff anyway | Mar 22 23:46 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Ubuntu Community Team Opportunities: Second Draft - http://is.gd/aTwJR #ubuntu | Mar 22 23:46 | |
| oiaohm | I would take my odd with 150 year old can fruit cake before putting my taste buds need 40 year old pasta cubezzz | Mar 22 23:46 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu Community Team Opportunities: Second Draft | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 27.46 KB | Mar 22 23:46 |
| oiaohm | need/near | Mar 22 23:46 |
| oiaohm | Now the issue with 150 year old can stuff is not only that it caned it half how in hell to open it. | Mar 22 23:47 |
| oiaohm | The can half a inch thick steal. | Mar 22 23:47 |
| oiaohm | That is canned goods that were built to last. | Mar 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | And really don't drop them on foot they are not going to break you foot will. | Mar 22 23:48 |
| oiaohm | Most of the 150 year old stuff is old stock because newer simpler to open cans turned up. | Mar 22 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | the best part about buying a car from family is you can have them put down that they sold it to you for $1 | Mar 22 23:53 |
| oiaohm | Good example of human nature. | Mar 22 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | you only pay 7 cents sales tax | Mar 22 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 22 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Some of the old 150 year old cans have the last price tage on them. | Mar 22 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Free with free dilivery. | Mar 22 23:54 |
| oiaohm | Yet they are still there. | Mar 22 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | I never declare what I really paid for a car | Mar 22 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | cause they can't prove anything that's not on the bill of sale | Mar 22 23:55 |
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