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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: March 2010

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schestowitz[00:09] <MinceR> should ubuntu install Nexuiz by default? :>Mar 01 00:55
schestowitz[00:09] <sebsebseb> MinceR: noMar 01 00:55
schestowitz[00:09] <sebsebseb> MinceR: they need games that are 100% family friendly by defaultMar 01 00:55
schestowitzAdd a 'wad' to it with toddlers and pillows for weaponsMar 01 00:56
MinceRlolMar 01 00:56
MinceRactually there's a game mode where no weapons are used, it's just running around a race trackMar 01 00:56
MinceR(some of the race tracks are like Mirror's Edge, as far as i know Mirror's Edge.)Mar 01 00:57
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schestowitz 01 10:40
schestowitzQuote:\Mar 01 22:07
schestowitzHi, Jason,Mar 01 22:08
schestowitzI just wanted to congratulate you on the new site which I like very much. Keep it up.Mar 01 22:08
schestowitz/Mar 01 22:08
schestowitzWTF? 01 22:22
schestowitz> Hi Roy,Mar 01 23:07
schestowitz>Mar 01 23:07
schestowitz> No, I don't get any emails from Marbux.  He was one of the members of theMar 01 23:07
schestowitz> OpenDocument Foundation, if you remember them.  After the Foundation wentMar 01 23:07
schestowitz> defunct, Marbux continued for a while posting on the OASIS lists, but heMar 01 23:07
schestowitz> went crazy and started attacking everyone and was eventually kicked off byMar 01 23:07
schestowitz> OASIS staff.  He occasionally posts long anti-ODF screeds as blogMar 01 23:07
schestowitz> comments, claiming that ODF violates international law or something likeMar 01 23:07
schestowitz> that.  A sad story, really.Mar 01 23:07
schestowitz>Mar 01 23:07
schestowitz> What is he saying now?  More of the same?Mar 01 23:07
schestowitzYes, I ignore him.Mar 01 23:08
oiaohmMarbux was kicked out of OASIS lists for many reason.Mar 01 23:33
schestowitzI knowMar 01 23:33
schestowitzI was on itMar 01 23:33
schestowitzHe keeps mailing meMar 01 23:34
oiaohmOne includes repeatly asking for a way to include parts in ODF that would not be written in standard.Mar 01 23:34
schestowitz~ge stoppedMar 01 23:34
oiaohmIe undocumented blobsMar 01 23:34
oiaohmPersonally I suspect some link to MS with Marbux but I have not found it.Mar 01 23:34
schestowitzI wrote about itMar 01 23:34
schestowitz 01 23:35
schestowitzSOme things he tells me make it a remote possibility that MS is involvedMar 01 23:36
schestowitzHe was like a friend for yearsMar 01 23:36
schestowitzin groklaqMar 01 23:36
schestowitzin groklawMar 01 23:36
MinceR013423 < Solet> C programmers do it with long pointersMar 02 00:43
schestowitz:-)Mar 02 00:44
schestowitzFemale c programmer make holesMar 02 00:44
schestowitz 02 01:03
schestowitzMax Keiser Takes Offense to Golsman Sachs Story - "A Silent Coup D'eta 02 01:04
schestowitz[01:13] <tessier> Hope your phone didn't just ring. My mobile accidentally tried to dial you as the last person who dialed me.Mar 02 01:14
schestowitz[01:13] <schestowitz> No rings :-) :-)Mar 02 01:14
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 2 09:38:01 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialMar 02 09:38
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Mar 02 09:38
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Mar 02 09:38
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schestowitz> ...for the plug of open....  As you say, it's not a news site, andMar 02 15:45
schestowitz> indeed, it's hard to think of one that does things properly.  Sad.Mar 02 15:45
schestowitz:-)Mar 02 15:45
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schestowitzMar 02 23:16
schestowitz[23:16] <dyfet> I thought my link was more interesting though ;)Mar 02 23:16
schestowitz 03 00:42
schestowitz 03 00:55
schestowitz on the Work of No More Victims 03 00:59
schestowitz 03 01:52
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MinceR 03 14:40
schestowitz 03 20:46
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schestowitz 04 03:05
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schestowitz 04 17:59
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schestowitz<zoobab> ady to help trying to get Debian running on it.Mar 08 11:36
schestowitz<zoobab> 08 11:36
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schestowitzHeg. My 80-year-old uncle is something! :-)Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz> Hi My 4th Grandson (preceded by David, Steven and Michael.)Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz>Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz> In retrospect, may I ask which diploma brought you the most satisfaction.High-School, College, Graduate School or your Ph.D.?Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz>Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz> Or was it all of the above?Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz>Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz> My hearty congratulations, with your degree you have entered a highly exclusive portal,  almost like a knighthood, (Sir Roy of Schestowitz) and now it's time to go forth and slay the dragons and protect the maidens.Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz>Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz> No one but yourself deserves credit for your academic accomplishments but it is magnanimous of you to say that others helped; nevertheless, I am pleased to note that you are humble and unpretentious.Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz>Mar 08 16:51
schestowitz> So, like someone once said.ONWARD AND UPWARD!Mar 08 16:51
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scientesyou have any girlfriends?Mar 08 22:04
scientesanyways, I am fewaMar 08 22:04
schestowitzMy last g/f was ages ago.. too much Internet nowMar 08 22:05
scienteslolMar 08 22:05
schestowitzSeriouslyMar 08 22:05
scientesI stopped hanging out here for a whileMar 08 22:05
scientesthat , ahh whats it calledMar 08 22:06
scientesafter being on the computer 24/7 for over a yearMar 08 22:06
scientessuspension, but still not the word...Mar 08 22:10
schestowitzFound a girl, eh?Mar 08 22:10
scienteslolMar 08 22:11
schestowitzparallel lifeMar 08 22:11
scientesnoMar 08 22:11
schestowitzAt least we do politics+s/w, not virtual world and W0WMar 08 22:11
scienteslife should be interconnectedMar 08 22:11
scientesand sharedMar 08 22:11
scientes<schestowitz> At least we do politics+s/w, not virtual world and W0WMar 08 22:11
scientesyepMar 08 22:11
scientesexactly the conclusion I madeMar 08 22:11
scientesalthough I did some wow before i came here...Mar 08 22:12
scientesI did too much politics on the free server and got kicked out...Mar 08 22:12
scientesand was gladMar 08 22:12
scientes*politics as in horseplayMar 08 22:12
scientesthe server software has been reverse engineeredMar 08 22:13
schestowitzwork on the ground is slowerMar 08 22:15
schestowitzHolding up signsMar 08 22:15
schestowitzSad truthMar 08 22:15
scientespolitics on internet is bestMar 08 22:15
scienteswelll... not neccicarilyMar 08 22:15
schestowitzpetitionsMar 08 22:15
schestowitzcommsMar 08 22:16
scientesnahhMar 08 22:16
schestowitzthat's why they track maiklMar 08 22:16
scientesyou can help acquaintencesMar 08 22:16
schestowitzTo derail organisationMar 08 22:16
schestowitzPeople don't stay separate and desparateMar 08 22:16
schestowitzmeshing  infoMar 08 22:16
schestowitzwho's whose shill, who worked for who, etc.Mar 08 22:16
schestowitzBN has good DB on MSFT's networkMar 08 22:16
scientesconsumer societyMar 08 22:28
schestowitzThey consume while other gain powerMar 08 22:33
schestowitzsome take debt, some take congressMar 08 22:33
scientesmindlessnessMar 08 22:34
scienteshavn't talked to her for a few weaks, its hard for me to loosen my prideMar 08 22:35
schestowitzIn a relationship, the one in control is the one who cares lessMar 08 22:49
schestowitz[Or pretends to]Mar 08 22:49
scientessabbaticalMar 08 22:50
scienteswell saidMar 08 22:50
scienteshere, its multilateralMar 08 22:50
scientesyou just have to have differn't skillsMar 08 22:50
scientes....Mar 08 22:54
scientesshared lie, of not caringMar 08 22:54
scientesi got alot out of pride and prejudiceMar 08 23:00
scienteswhich i wouldn't have read if it wasn't assignedMar 08 23:00
scientesWoW is alot like "learning" institutionsMar 09 01:17
scientesa giant grind, designed to numb the brainMar 09 01:17
scientes 09 03:39
scientessome shills are really sophisticatedMar 09 03:39
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schestowitzI played the older versionsMar 09 07:48
scientes 09 07:54
scientesi like how thatgot pulled togetherMar 09 07:54
schestowitzYeah, all the refs fell together on the same week, I just had to glue them correctlyMar 09 08:08
schestowitzI have a process for handling theseMar 09 08:08
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oiaohmI will not say this in open channel.  The only risk to open source from novell patents is if someone finds the loop hole IBM built into the OIN agreement.   Where for patents not released to OIN you can place FOSS licence type restriction on it.Mar 09 09:43
oiaohmBut it forbids any worse attack than being a licence annoyance.Mar 09 09:44
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scientesit missed the The Nation article on the issueMar 09 14:05
scientes"Is the World Bank becoming a front for a convicted monopoly abuser?"Mar 09 14:05
scientesthis is a little over the topMar 09 14:06
scientesthe World Bank is a front for the american empireMar 09 14:06
scienteseconomic opressionMar 09 14:06
scientesMicrosoft may just be one of its clientsMar 09 14:06
scientes 09 14:07
scientes 09 14:09
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scientesthe print stylesheet sucksMar 10 17:24
schestowitzWhose?Mar 10 18:01
scientesboycottnovell.comMar 10 18:02
scientesie, there is noneMar 10 18:02
scienteshit "print preview" in firefoxMar 10 18:02
schestowitzOh.Mar 10 18:05
scienteslike hide .sociableMar 10 18:07
scientesand the "get on irc"Mar 10 18:07
scientesand apply the handing sidebar cssMar 10 18:07
scientesie float=leftMar 10 18:08
schestowitzHow many people will this affect?Mar 10 19:00
MinceRthe bottom of news page listings is a bit wild: " « Previous Page — « Previous entries « Previous Page · Next Page » Next entries » — Next Page » "Mar 10 19:01
MinceR(seen at the bottom of )Mar 10 19:01
schestowitzI knowMar 10 19:02
schestowitzWordPress weirdnessMar 10 19:02
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schestowitz[22:51] <jono> man, did you ever get the t-shirt?Mar 11 23:12
schestowitz[22:59] <-- jono has left this server (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).Mar 11 23:12
schestowitz[23:01] <-- jono has left this server (Changing host).Mar 11 23:12
schestowitz[23:07] <schestowitz> no :-(Mar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:07] <jono> really?Mar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:07] <schestowitz> yeahMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:07] <jono> hmmm let me check my mailMar 11 23:13
schestowitzMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:07] <jono> I emailed Cezzaine about itMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:08] <jono> hmmm I emailed herMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:09] <schestowitz> thanks so much!!Mar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:09] <jono> must have got lost on her TODO list - I ask her to send a lot of people who are cool free t-shirtsMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:09] <jono> sorry about that, palMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:09] <jono> let me see what I can sort outMar 11 23:13
schestowitz[23:09] <schestowitz> :-)Mar 11 23:13
schestowitzFeels like being 'bribed'Mar 11 23:13
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schestowitz> Roy,Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz> I saw your posting today on ERRAC Web log and noticed you have a "Dr."Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz> in front of your name!Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz>Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz> Congratulations! :-)Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz>Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz> Now that you have your Doctorate what are your employment plans?  PostMar 12 06:52
schestowitz> grad fellowship, job hunt?Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz>Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz> Keep up the good work at BoycottNovell.Mar 12 06:52
schestowitzThanks a lot!Mar 12 06:52
schestowitz> ps.  I sent this email to all  of the email addresses I have for youMar 12 06:52
schestowitz> because I don't know which are active. I suspect that since you get aMar 12 06:52
schestowitz> lot of attack mail you must change your email address often to divertMar 12 06:52
schestowitz> the trash.   Hope this got to you!Mar 12 06:52
schestowitzI no longer get much hate mail. I think I found out how to not annoy people while exposing them.Mar 12 06:52
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MinceRis that even possible?Mar 12 13:04
schestowitzYesMar 12 13:41
schestowitzIn a wayMar 12 13:41
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scientesyou read much literature?Mar 12 15:36
MinceRwhat's much?Mar 12 16:14
scientesidkMar 12 16:19
schestowitzWeb text onlyMar 12 17:28
schestowitzI ca save itMar 12 17:28
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 12 17:46:59 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialMar 12 17:46
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Mar 12 17:46
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Mar 12 17:46
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schestowitzNotice that we hardly have trolls in IRC anymoreMar 12 20:32
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schestowitzMy bro learns Linux...Mar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:08:06] A Schestowitz: why all the softwares in linux start with "k"?Mar 13 06:11
schestowitzwhat the "k" means?Mar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:08:52] Roy: kdeMar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:09:06] A Schestowitz: kde means?Mar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:09:11] Roy: k desktop environmentMar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:09:30] A Schestowitz: but why k and not d for example?Mar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:09:50] Roy: g is usually gnomeMar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:09:52] Roy: k for kdeMar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:10:11] A Schestowitz: ha, okay, got itMar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:10:16] Roy: gnome =with gtkMar 13 06:11
schestowitz[06:10:24] Roy: You'll learn over timeMar 13 06:11
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schestowitz 14 13:34
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schestowitzA MUST see for creationists! 15 07:36
schestowitzThis guy has good videosMar 15 07:36
schestowitz> Most big  publisher news carefully avoids the terms "Microsoft"Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> > and "Windows" when describing malware that only runs on Windows.Mar 15 10:18
schestowitzOn Monday 08 March 2010, Richard Stallman wrote:Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> > You're entirely right.  The question is what we can do to point it out.Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> >Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> > Would you like to try a campaign of writing letters to editors, andMar 15 10:18
schestowitz> > posting comments when possible, to point this out?  If you do it 10Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> > times we will see how effective that method is.Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> >Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz> > Do you have any other ideas?Mar 15 10:18
schestowitzI have tried some of this before but the problem only seems to get worse withMar 15 10:18
schestowitztime.  I can try to do this on my own in a specific and methodical way but itMar 15 10:18
schestowitzwould be better to get help.  I coppied Roy Schestowitz of Boycott Novell onMar 15 10:18
schestowitzthis email because he might help and he would like to know what you think.Mar 15 10:18
schestowitzThank you for the encouragement.Mar 15 10:18
schestowitzMicrosoft has invested a lot of effort in manipulating journalists, oftenMar 15 10:18
schestowitzthrough intermediaries.  Roy has published emails from the Comes vrsMar 15 10:18
schestowitzMicrosoft anti-trust trial that show how Microsoft puts pressure onMar 15 10:18
schestowitzjournalists and tied this to other material and good evidence of Microsoft'sMar 15 10:18
schestowitzastroturf efforts.  The trouble Microsoft goes through is best told byMar 15 10:18
schestowitzMicrosoft themselves in the that they accidently sent a journalist:Mar 15 10:18
schestowitz 15 10:18
schestowitz> The author concludes, "there were close to a dozen other people involved. SomeMar 15 10:20
schestowitz> transcribed the interviews I conducted; others kept notes on my everyMar 15 10:20
schestowitz> utterance for clues about what questions I might ask next and ultimately whatMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> my story would say; others briefed executives with questions I had asked andMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> suggested good answers. Indeed, if you read the memo closely it’s clear thatMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> my experience with Microsoft on this story was their end game. For somethingMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> like six months prior they had been plotting to get Wired to write a storyMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> about Channel 9 and had dispatched three executives to meet with editors atMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> the magazine in hopes of setting their hook."Mar 15 10:21
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:21
schestowitz> An organized campaign would do better than my individual letters.  Roy, I'mMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> sure, would be happy to host and organize an effort of his own.  This mightMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> also be a good thing for the FSF's 7 Sins campaign.  Every person workingMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> with computers is harmed by Microsoft's misscharacterization of WindowsMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> problems as "computer problems" so this should be a popular effort.  A pageMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> can be kept with bad article links, a brief description, links that identifyMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> Windows as the culprit, a well written example letter and contact informationMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> that it would be easy for people to complain.  I can help point out articlesMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> as I see them, but an easy way for many people to contribute would be best.Mar 15 10:21
schestowitz> A hundred or so per article with good language and credentials might cutMar 15 10:21
schestowitz> through the Microsoft fog that most editors and journalist labor under.Mar 15 10:21
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:21
schestowitz> I suggest the name, "Let's call out Windows"  or simply "Call out Windows."Mar 15 10:21
schestowitzRMS:Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz     An organized campaign would do better than my individual letters.Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> I agree.  That is why I cc'd campaigns-nonrt in my previous message toMar 15 10:22
schestowitz> you about this, and in this one: they are the ones who could manageMar 15 10:22
schestowitz> such a campaign.   Please keep them in the cc list.Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> The reason I suggested you try it for a time on your own is that youMar 15 10:22
schestowitz> could get information on what results you get from various approaches,Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> then report.  That way we will know what methods are useful.Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> If you have already tried it on your own, maybe you can already giveMar 15 10:22
schestowitz> us that information.Mar 15 10:22
schestowitzRMS:Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz      A pageMar 15 10:22
schestowitz    can be kept with bad article links, a brief description, links that identifyMar 15 10:22
schestowitz    Windows as the culprit, a well written example letter and contact informationMar 15 10:22
schestowitz    that it would be easy for people to complain.Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> That collection is something people could create over time. Could you write the first one?Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> OK, I'll get to work on it over the weekend and share the results.  I saw on  Boycott Novell today that Roy is already noting articles like this.Mar 15 10:22
schestowitz> One of the first stories I run into coincides with some kind of political  game.Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> 15 10:28
schestowitz> Following the links from there, I find a better than average article.Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> 15 10:28
schestowitz> Contact:Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> elinor.mills@cnet.comMar 15 10:28
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> I wrote her a nice letter thanking her for her better than average article butMar 15 10:28
schestowitz> asking why she concludes the problem targets anyone but Windows users and isMar 15 10:28
schestowitz> a general problem of interactive web sites.Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> Here's a typical botnet article.  It's low on facts, high in drama and doesMar 15 10:28
schestowitz> not use the words Microsoft or Windows to describe the Windows only problem:Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> 15 10:28
schestowitz> I think the author's email is:Mar 15 10:28
schestowitz> 15 10:28
schestowitz> and I wrote him a polite thank you letter that also asked him why he does not  mention Microsoft or Windows.Mar 15 10:31
schestowitz> That's a small start.  I'll have more time Saturday and Sunday.  Thanks again  for the encouragement.  This should be fun.Mar 15 10:31
schestowitzRMS > It is nice that she responded but the response is dismissive and an indirectMar 15 10:31
schestowitzRMS > assertion of the popularity myth.Mar 15 10:31
schestowitzI have documented examples where journalists received mail from Microsoft's PR agencies (e.g. W-E) to tell them off and ask them to change articles about security.Mar 15 10:31
schestowitzThe "popularity myth" is well... a myth. It's PR. Given the widespread use of GNU/Linux in servers and devices everywhere, people should struggle to reason about lack of cracking as related to "popularity" (Windows is not popular by the way, it's just ubiquitous).Mar 15 10:31
schestowitz> I agree, that's why I call it a myth.  My emails to editors include a link toMar 15 10:37
schestowitz> this conversation where an expert in Windows cracking discusses many flawsMar 15 10:37
schestowitz> specific to Windows and only Windows:Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> Thank you, Roy, for publishing that link and an excerpt at Boycott Novell.Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> People who advocate Microsoft and Windows rudely disagree.  I had thisMar 15 10:37
schestowitz> conversaton with the Tacoma Linux Users group last month and was surprised byMar 15 10:37
schestowitz> the vehemence demonstrated by some of the members:Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> They predict the sky will fall if people migrate to free software andMar 15 10:37
schestowitz> indirectly argue that we might as well keep paying to use known bad software.Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> The author of this article agrees that Windows problems should be calledMar 15 10:37
schestowitzWindows problems.Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> 15 10:37
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz> It will be nice if The Inquirer's editors follow through.Mar 15 10:37
schestowitz    > While the threat you report is real, it's confined to people usingMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > Microsoft Windows.  Other systems do not have the same kinds of problemsMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > that Windows does.  Though there are many millions of happy GNU/LinuxMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > desktop users such as myself.  GNU/Linux is also deployed in most highMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > performance computing situations, including banks, stock markets and webMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > service sites like Google. None of us have the problems described here by aMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > man who used to write adware that took advantage of Microsoft WindowsMar 15 10:38
schestowitz    > users:Mar 15 10:38
schestowitzThe central point is, "These problems are caused by using Windows; whyMar 15 10:38
schestowitzdidn't the article say so?"  Your first sentence starts to get at thisMar 15 10:38
schestowitzpoint, but doesn't make the whole point.  And neither does the rest ofMar 15 10:38
schestowitzthe first paragraph.  Instead it talks about GNU/Linux.Mar 15 10:38
schestowitzI suggest making the whole of the central point at the beginning.Mar 15 10:41
schestowitzI think it is also a mistake to say so much about GNU/Linux in the letter.Mar 15 10:42
schestowitzTo some extent, that is a digression.  After all, MacOS has better securityMar 15 10:42
schestowitzthan Windows, and not because of being free.  Arguing too much for GNU/LinuxMar 15 10:42
schestowitzin these letters could undermine them.Mar 15 10:42
schestowitz    > I try to mention the fact that the malware is mostly written for Windows.Mar 15 10:42
schestowitz    > Thanks for the reminder. ElinorMar 15 10:42
schestowitzShe has not fully understood the central point.  She understood partMar 15 10:42
schestowitzof it -- that these problems mainly happen on Windows machines.  SheMar 15 10:42
schestowitzhas not got the point that Windows is more vulnerable, because of itsMar 15 10:42
schestowitzbad design, which includes back doors deliberately made by Microsoft.Mar 15 10:42
schestowitzShe thinks it is only that the attackers find Windows a juicier target.Mar 15 10:42
schestowitzIt would be good to explain that more explicitly in the letters.Mar 15 10:42
schestowitz> Roy has done a lot of the above already.  I'm looking forward to what he comesMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> up with next.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> It is true that this is a distraction to the particular task at hand, butMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> debunking the "popularity myth" is a good idea.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> The basic arguments of the popularity myth run like this:Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> 1.  People love Windows, that's why it's so popular.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> 2.  Crackers only target Windows because so many people use it.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> 3.  All code is just as bad as Windows, crackers don't target other systemsMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> because no one uses those systems.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> 4.  No one uses GNU/Linux because it's so hard to use, terrible for users,Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> does not work with hardware, because it's not like Windows, place yourMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> favorite "free software will never do X, or catch up to Y" insult here.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> 5. Moving to free software will cost a lot of money, annoy users and provideMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> no net security gain.  See 1, 2, 3, and 4.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> None of these things is true, but each reinforces the others to form aMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> credible belief system for the ignorant, indifferent and those who'sMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> livelyhoods depends on Windows.  Microsoft has to shift blame and launch FUDMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> attacks against competitors to maintain the illusion of Microsoft excellenceMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> in the face of their many obvious failures.  Pointing out that all botnetsMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> are caused by Windows does not diffuse the above chain of reasoning.  ShowingMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> that Windows has special, unlikely to be fixed weaknesses directly counters 3Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> and causes people to question other parts of the above belief system.  TheMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> increasing, trouble free presence of any other software in network attachedMar 15 10:50
schestowitz> devices like phones, games and appliances also counters 3.Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz> ha!  That article predicted people would sling around flaw statistics again,Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:50
schestowitz"It reminds us of Microsoft's attempts to compare the number of security  patches to Windows itself with those distributed for all of the thousands of applications, utilities and so on that make up a modern Linux distribution.Mar 15 10:51
schestowitz> The Vole hasn't tried that one for a while now, so it's due to come around again. Maybe it will come up along with the next self-serving round of  Microsoft-sponsored Total Cost of Ownership studies, since those seem to be  about ready to ramp up again in this recession."Mar 15 10:51
schestowitz>  Someone from the Tacoma LUG pulled that one on me the other day.  I think I'll  send him that quote.  BS has a longer half life than expected.Mar 15 10:51
schestowitz>Mar 15 10:51
schestowitz> I'm not the best person to show that 2 and 3 are mistaken.  I know a little C,Mar 15 10:51
schestowitz> have developed software for research and industry and I pay attention.  CodeMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> quality studdies are consistent on the superiority of free software to nonMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> free.  That is the intuitive result of the number of developers that can workMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> on any free software project compared to the financial burden on a singleMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> company with non free software.  The performance history is abundant andMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> should provide serious researchers with all the material they need.  TheMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> distribution model of free software, where everyone ends up with up to dateMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> code while non free software users have trouble finding their 10 year old OEMMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> install disk seems another obvious theoretical case in favor of free softwareMar 15 10:51
schestowitz> security, as does the natural diversity of distributions and greater hardwareMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> choice free software desktop users can chose from.  I've pointed to articlesMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> by Windows crackers where they giddily mock the foolish design choicesMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> Microsoft made that are specific to Windows alone.  Alas, I'm not a computerMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> security expert and lack the credentials and time to carry out a seriousMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> study.  I'm a physicist and spend most of my time helping doctors cureMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> cancer.  I can make these arguments in good faith but they would carry moreMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> weight if made by a professional computer scientist.Mar 15 11:03
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:03
schestowitz> Does anyone know someone who knows enough about Windows internals and realMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> security to debunk the popularity myth with authority?  Someone brave enoughMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> and secure enough in their position to deal with the inevitable libel thatMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> comes with that kind of research?  Perhaps a tenured professor who's writtenMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> an excellent paper on the cost of Vista's DRM schemes?Mar 15 11:03
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:03
schestowitz> Recent Microsoft talk of "Internet driver's licenses" and charging fees toMar 15 11:03
schestowitz> clean up botnets are likely a reaction to modest proposals such as this:Mar 15 11:03
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:03
schestowitz> 15 11:03
schestowitz> It would be good to have well grounded research showing the proper answer isMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> what seemed obvious to SJVN, throw windows off the internet.  If we don'tMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> have that research in place and good public awareness, Microsoft will useMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> public concerns and force ISPs to discriminate against free software evenMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> more than they do now with bad laws like ACTA.Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz> 15 11:07
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz> Botnet makers are harvesting "trusted computing" concepts.Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz> 15 11:07
schestowitz>Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz> Hopefully, this will clue people into the fact that Windows itself is malware.Mar 15 11:07
schestowitz> The authors note that the Zeus botnet herding software has hardware basedMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> anti-copy protection.  If they don't already do so, it should not be longMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> before malware authors also exploit Microsoft's DRM mechanisms to make theMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> botnet clients "trusted" so that it's not identified as malware and thus asMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> impossible to remove as other Windows components.  This would makeMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> conventional AV software more obviously useless and demonstrate how userMar 15 11:07
schestowitz> hostile Microsoft's version of "trusted computing" really is.  A computerMar 15 11:08
schestowitz> that's not controlled by the owner is a privacy and security risk byMar 15 11:08
schestowitz> definition.Mar 15 11:08
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schestowitz 15 18:57
schestowitzemacs user:Mar 15 20:13
schestowitz> I can't get the hang of it, it's too instant for me. I can only useMar 15 20:13
schestowitz> IRC or USenet. How about settign an IRC server locaally, that masksMar 15 20:13
schestowitz> the IPS addresses. That way you can keep an eye of who is trollingMar 15 20:13
schestowitz> you. A squid proxy should do it ..Mar 15 20:13
schestowitzFreenode can anonymise your username.Mar 15 20:13
schestowitz> A few thoughts on this:Mar 15 20:16
schestowitz>Mar 15 20:16
schestowitz> The comparison to banks isn't appropriate, because those are installations maintained by experts, not novice users.Mar 15 20:16
schestowitz>Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz> It seems tough to anticipate what would happen if a multi-million (billion?) dollar malware industry was dedicated to subverting the Ubuntu installs of novice users.  Even if some Windows security flaws (like bugs in IE) are impossible on GNU/Linux systems, they might find whole other kinds of problems that nobody is even aware of yet.Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz>Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz> I bet you could run down a list of common ways that windows computers are attacked (an executable in an email attachment, for example) and explain how on GNU/Linux this would be impossible (in this case, because double clicking on an attachment would not execute it, and software is installed through a package manager).Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz>Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz> Maybe none of this matters though.  Our point could simply be that these security problems are Windows problems, and that any user can make them disappear by switching away from Windows.Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz>Mar 15 20:17
schestowitz> When Windows' marketshare drops, we'll see if what Microsoft says is true.  But there are many reasons to expect it not to be.  In the meantime, switching to GNU/Linux is the best way to keep your computer secure and safe from fraud.  Period.Mar 15 20:17
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schestowitz[16:08] <anon> well roy I just wanted to tell you that while I respect what your doing with the antinovel-mono message I really do, I dont respect you for PM'ing me that one time and broadcastiing it without my permission in might say it falls under journalism umbrella but I never considered you one frankly.I've not been back and wont unless I hear apology from you.Mar 16 17:13
schestowitzHaha.Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> "pirvate hi Josh here's my private pics I took of myself last night.Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> > you have to sign up for a password"Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> >Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> > 16 17:20
schestowitz> >Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> > 16 17:20
schestowitz>>> 16 17:20
schestowitz> >Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz>> >> I link to it???Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> >Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz> > No, I think they link to you, I think it's spam ??Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz*LOL* for a moment I thought I got cracked or something....Mar 16 17:20
schestowitz:-pMar 16 17:20
schestowitzReconciled...Mar 16 17:50
schestowitz[17:16] <schestowitz> pingMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] < > pongMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] < > sorry I was downstairs/outsideMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] <schestowitz> Sorry manMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] < > but anyhooMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] <schestowitz> I don't even recall doing such a thingMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] < > accepted.Mar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] < > its ok..Istill accept.Mar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:47] < > has anything with mono changed at all..Mar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:48] <schestowitz> YesMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:48] <schestowitz> But not muchMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:48] * schestowitz gets linkMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:48] <schestowitz> Today: 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:48] < > I heard something about M$ changing license to allow mono to be downloaded elsewhere other than JUST novel..if true hmmmMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:48] < > oh gawdMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:49] < > oh yes I recall that I surprised, heck noMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:49] < > sad, definitelyMar 16 17:56
schestowitz[17:50] < > a big deal yes,,and <no>..where trouble brews with gnome, kde/qt to the rescue ;)Mar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:50] < > so soon ill be installing pcbsd , which uses qt by default...with luck qt wont ever become infected ? ;))Mar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:51] < > dasinitMar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:51] < > dain itMar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:51] < > sorry I meant all that to go IN #boycottnovellMar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:51] < > dain irc clientMar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:52] < > tty in the channel and again thx/accepted no hesitation.Mar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:52] <schestowitz> :-)Mar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:52] < > :)Mar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:52] <schestowitz> Maybe by accidentMar 16 17:57
schestowitzMar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:53] < > very possibleMar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:53] < > been there,, totally done that.Mar 16 17:57
schestowitz[17:53] < > hehMar 16 17:57
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schestowitz 17 15:57
schestowitz>> P.S. Congratulations on your Ph.D!Mar 17 16:13
schestowitzAh... well, now I will struggle to have excuses to spend all day promoting Linux :-)Mar 17 16:13
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MinceRschestowitz: which page should i translate to hungarian?Mar 18 19:29
schestowitzJust the "Introduction" part of the Wiki (front page)Mar 18 20:50
schestowitzThanks!Mar 18 20:50
MinceRwhere should i submit it once i'm done?Mar 18 20:50
schestowitzCan you mail it to 18 20:54
MinceRi willMar 18 21:02
schestowitzyay! :-)Mar 18 21:05
schestowitz 18 21:24
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schestowitz> Yes, you have been busy and it's all good.  Thanks.Mar 19 02:39
schestowitz>Mar 19 02:39
schestowitz> I'm working on links to your articles about press manipulation.  The oneMar 19 02:39
schestowitz> specific thing you had about security is the tip of a corruption the size ofMar 19 02:39
schestowitz> broadcast.  I should have something this weekend.Mar 19 02:39
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MinceRschestowitz: i've sent you the translationMar 19 14:31
MinceRone more thing: the native name of the language (for the translation list) is "Magyar"Mar 19 15:06
schestowitzMinceR: got your messageMar 19 15:20
schestowitz 19 15:21
schestowitzDoes that looks OK?Mar 19 15:21
schestowitzI got the encoding OK, I hopeMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> I've translated the "Introduction" section of the main page toMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> Hungarian. I've attached the original wiki source and the translated oneMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> (so you can tell what part exactly was translated). Not having a localMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> MediaWiki installation I couldn't really check the wiki syntax. The textMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> links to pages in English, but I don't think that's a problem. TheMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> second sentence of the last paragraph refers to the following parts ofMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> the page so if you omit those parts on the Hungarian main page, youMar 19 15:21
schestowitz> should remove that sentence too.Mar 19 15:21
schestowitz>Mar 19 15:21
schestowitz> The attachments are encoded in UTF-8.Mar 19 15:21
schestowitzMediaWiki can also do Chinese and stuffMar 19 15:21
schestowitzDon't know it it escalates to unicodeMar 19 15:21
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schestowitz"@schestowitz amazon are no one's friend. anyone who builds a book reader that destroys books sets himself against society and knowledge"Mar 19 15:57
MinceRschestowitz: since the indexes of the Main Page are omitted, i'd remove the second sentence of the last paragraph (as it refers to those)Mar 19 17:03
MinceRotherwise it's correctMar 19 17:04
schestowitzAh, maybe I'll add the page links..Mar 19 17:25
schestowitzBetter now? 19 17:26
MinceRyesMar 19 17:29
schestowitz:_DMar 19 17:48
schestowitzThanks!Mar 19 17:48
MinceRywMar 19 17:53
schestowitzby Joe Brockmeier 19 17:53
schestowitzOhhh... lookie hereMar 19 17:53
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schestowitz<zoobab_> i use an ssh client on my nokia e71Mar 19 20:27
schestowitz<zoobab_> with screen and irssi on the serverMar 19 20:27
schestowitz Mar 19 20:27
schestowitz* Loaded log from Wed Dec 30 12:35:49 2009Mar 19 20:27
schestowitz Mar 19 20:27
schestowitz<zoobab_> confirmation from a lobbyist in BrusselsMar 19 20:27
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schestowitzHeh.Mar 20 19:19
schestowitz> I miss the chats as much as you. When I look back at some of our oldMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> messages, I wonder why the conversation halted. On my part, I thought youMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> were too busy for trivia; after all, you were juggling many balls in theMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> air...working on your doctorate, web log, writing articles, sports andMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> exercise activities and a million other projects. I did not want to be aMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> distraction or interference.Mar 20 19:19
schestowitz> One old project, I would like to revive is Anita's Artwork link. I have beenMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> a little remiss in not keeping up with her production, which has beenMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> improving with every new painting. I am way backlogged and need to startMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> taking some digital photos. I believe you have 2 (or is it 4) of herMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> paintings that were not posted; I have forgotten which ones. Please let meMar 20 19:19
schestowitz> know.Mar 20 19:19
schestowitzFlorida cousinsMar 20 19:19
schestowitz[22:00] <sebsebseb> I have done it before in publically logged IRCMar 20 22:28
schestowitz[22:00] <sebsebseb> said that I live near BristolMar 20 22:28
schestowitz[22:00] <sebsebseb> ,but I didn't want to say it in thereMar 20 22:28
schestowitz[22:01] <sebsebseb> altough I kind of  maybe gave that wayMar 20 22:28
schestowitz[22:01] <sebsebseb> also  your a Dr now?  got some sort of status?  I see your name for  IRC nowMar 20 22:28
schestowitzMar 20 22:28
schestowitz[22:09] <sebsebseb> I assume you got thisMar 20 22:28
schestowitz[22:10] <sebsebseb> ?Mar 20 22:28
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MinceRwho's lumpy? lefty?Mar 21 20:55
schestowitzyesMar 21 21:44
MinceR:)Mar 21 21:45
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schestowitzI don't call him that, Malroy doesMar 21 23:48
schestowitz "This page has been accessed 82 times."Mar 22 00:02
MinceRwowMar 22 00:08
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*Disconnected (Connection timed out).Mar 22 14:40
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 22 14:40:08 2010
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 22 14:40:44 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialMar 22 14:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Mar 22 14:40
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Mar 22 14:40
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schestowitz"This page has been accessed 139 times."Mar 23 01:45
schestowitz;subj=news&amp;tag=2547-1_3-0-20Mar 23 01:50
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schestowitz> Hi Roy.Mar 23 17:21
schestowitz>Mar 23 17:21
schestowitz> Glad it's all done and dusted at last! I'm afraid I'm rather busyMar 23 17:21
schestowitz> this week, then off for easter (I've just started lecturing for MSc,Mar 23 17:21
schestowitz> did 4 lectures last thursday, have to write the next six!)Mar 23 17:21
schestowitzNice! Congratulations.Mar 23 17:21
schestowitz> , so willMar 23 17:21
schestowitz> have to turn down your kind offer at the moment.Mar 23 17:21
schestowitzOK, no problem. :-)Mar 23 17:21
schestowitz> When are you graduating? Would be nice if I could get to that toMar 23 17:21
schestowitz> cheer you on.Mar 23 17:21
schestowitzIt's in July.Mar 23 17:21
schestowitz> What are you doing at the moment? Any more TV interviews?Mar 23 17:21
schestowitzI grew my readership to around 10,000 people per day. I hope to find a part-time research opening. Are you aware of any?Mar 23 17:21
schestowitzMy USENET service is downMar 23 18:57
schestowitzVery annoying :-(Mar 23 18:57
schestowitz"Sorry to be a pain in the bum, I was wondering if there's some rough idea of when the server will be back up. There's no hurry, but I'm curious cause I haven't posted in 4 days."Mar 23 18:57
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scientescan I get "fewa" changed to "scientes"?Mar 23 20:22
schestowitzWhere?Mar 23 20:22
scienteson BNMar 23 20:26
scienteshave you used 4G internetMar 23 20:27
scientesits kinda expensiveMar 23 20:27
scientesbut the flexibility is alluringMar 23 20:27
schestowitzNopeMar 23 20:28
schestowitzI never use wirelessMar 23 20:28
schestowitzAll wiredMar 23 20:28
scientesI prefer wiredMar 23 20:30
scientesin a house, no wireless at allMar 23 20:30
scientesbut its nice to be able to get internet in placesMar 23 20:30
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schestowitz> Hi Roy,Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz>Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz> I've seen your coverage and would like to pitch you on Jaspersoft (theMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> open source business Intelligence company) when you're writing aboutMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> relevant topics. I've been on the Jaspersoft PR team for a few months.Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz> Until this point my former colleague, Jennifer Cloer, owned most of theMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> outreach to you, but with her recent departure, I want to learn whatMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> topics you're writing and thinking about most this year.Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz>Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz> Mainly, I want to make sure I don't waste your time with pitches youMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> don't care about. Likewise, if there are customers, ISVs or vendors IMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> have access to that can help you on stories, I want to make sure I getMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> you access to them.Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz>Mar 24 01:43
schestowitz> I'd love to get 10 minutes on the phone with you. If you'll be in theMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> Bay Area, I'll even spring for lunch. And if neither of these areMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> options for you, I'd really appreciate if you could take 1-2 minutes andMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> jot down top-of-mind topics you're looking to cover so I know how toMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> help. I'd like to be able to touch base with you every month or so toMar 24 01:43
schestowitz> see what's on your radar.Mar 24 01:43
schestowitzHi Jasmine,Mar 24 01:43
schestowitzI have a general personal policy of not engaging with PR agencies.Mar 24 01:43
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schestowitzUSENET still down...Mar 24 11:43
schestowitz:-(Mar 24 11:43
schestowitz> Hi Roy,Mar 24 11:43
schestowitz>Mar 24 11:43
schestowitz> Sorry for the delay, but it will be a day or two yet.  It should be sorted by or on next weekend, I'm just very busy at work at the moment and struggling to find the time.Mar 24 11:43
schestowitz>Mar 24 11:43
schestowitz> Apologies!Mar 24 11:43
schestowitzThanks, I _Really_ appreciate it!Mar 24 11:43
schestowitzIn Google Groups I can see the trolls already spreading nasty rumours about my absence. :-)Mar 24 11:43
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schestowitzRMS:Mar 24 14:54
schestowitz>     I did write back with some of these points, thank you.  I pointed out thatMar 24 14:54
schestowitz>     desktop computers are outnumbered by all the other computing devices, fromMar 24 14:54
schestowitz>     cell phones to supercomputers, but none of these has a problem and neither doMar 24 14:54
schestowitz>     desktops that use software other than Microsoft's.Mar 24 14:54
schestowitz>Mar 24 14:54
schestowitz> Actually there are cell phone viruses.  They attack proprietaryMar 24 14:55
schestowitz> software.  I don't know what OS those phones run, or whether theMar 24 14:55
schestowitz> software being attacked is at the system level.  (The system MIGHT beMar 24 14:55
schestowitz> Wince.)Mar 24 14:55
schestowitzWindows{tm} Mobile{tm} has viruses; Symbian, which uses a similar DLL design, has some too. It was used on about 60% of phones, but it didn't become an epidemic. I haven't come across any reports of Android/LiMo/Maemo viruses.Mar 24 14:55
schestowitz[19:54] <aFriend> oh well, I am too much of a noob, I wanted that line to go to your view onlyMar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:55] <schestowitz> HeyMar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:55] <aFriend> Hi!Mar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:56] <aFriend> so, this has to do with going ons in a 3rd world countryMar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:56] <schestowitz> mail to r@schestowitz.comMar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:56] <aFriend> great!Mar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:56] <aFriend> will doMar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:56] <aFriend> thanks!!Mar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:56] <schestowitz> thanksMar 24 20:02
schestowitzMar 24 20:02
schestowitz[19:57] <-- aFriend has left this server (Quit: Page closed).Mar 24 20:02
schestowitz> Actually currently from Austin, TXMar 24 20:04
schestowitz>Mar 24 20:04
schestowitz> Before I get into details I need to have a feel if you would be OK toMar 24 20:04
schestowitz> receive some information which is not legally confidential but highlyMar 24 20:04
schestowitz> sensitive, and hold on to it before releasing to the public.  ForMar 24 20:04
schestowitz> obvious reasons I would not send what is actually confidential from aMar 24 20:04
schestowitz> legal point of view, but then what is legal or not ends up being nuancesMar 24 20:04
schestowitz> when we talk about M power in my country, and to my :-) satisfaction :-)Mar 24 20:04
schestowitz> I received today confirm that I am in M's short list of unfriendlies there.Mar 24 20:04
schestowitzHi,Mar 24 20:04
schestowitzI respect confidentiality as I have done in many thousands of posts. I would not disclose your personal details under any circumstances.Mar 24 20:04
schestowitz> > 24 21:56
schestowitzAh, I wonder how he'd respond to *real* fear mongering, hating,Mar 24 21:56
schestowitzand conspiracy theories :-).Mar 24 21:56
schestowitzI thought Miguel was less thin-skinned that that. Oh well :-).Mar 24 21:56
schestowitzJeremy.Mar 24 21:56
schestowitzRMS likes BN :-)Mar 24 21:58
schestowitz> 24 21:58
schestowitz>Mar 24 21:58
schestowitz> I am impressed with these results.Mar 24 21:58
schestowitz>Mar 24 21:58
schestowitz> I have a suggestion.  The tone comes across as negative regarding theMar 24 21:58
schestowitz> journalists Elinor Mills and John Markoff, who have more or lessMar 24 21:58
schestowitz> accepted what they've been asked to do.  That negativity couldMar 24 21:58
schestowitz> backfire if it gives people the feeling that, if they do as we ask,Mar 24 21:58
schestowitz> we will be harsh with them afterwards.Mar 24 21:59
schestowitz>Mar 24 21:59
schestowitz> That could occur as a semiconscious emotional reaction which would beMar 24 21:59
schestowitz> hard for them to analyze or recognize.Mar 24 21:59
schestowitz>Mar 24 21:59
schestowitz> So I suggest, in the future, avoiding any negativity of toneMar 24 21:59
schestowitz> about journalists that have acceded to our requests.Mar 24 21:59
schestowitz>Mar 24 21:59
schestowitz> Aside from that detail, I just want to say, "Good show!"Mar 24 21:59
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schestowitzPR people again........Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz> Hi Roy Schestowitz,Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz>Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz> My name's Anna Yuzon, I work for who is a project management software company. Our owner Jason Westland (who you may have heard of before) has asked me to email you as he has been impressed by your website and would like to request a link on this page  in order to get his new project management software some exposure.Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz>Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz> In return I would like to offer you 4 free copies of our new project management software "MPMM professional" we sell each copy for $495 usually as you can see at You can use these copies of mpmm for your own business or as a giveaway for your clients/visitors.Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz>Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz> Please let me know whether this is something that you would be interested in and if there is anything else that we could help you with?Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz>Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz> If you would like to get in touch with Jason directly, you can contact him at jwestland@method123.comMar 25 00:55
schestowitz>Mar 25 00:55
schestowitz> Kind RegardsMar 25 00:55
schestowitz> Anna YuzonMar 25 00:55
schestowitz> Marketing DirectorMar 25 00:56
schestowitz> http://www.projectmanager.comMar 25 00:56
schestowitz> anna@projectmanager.comMar 25 00:56
schestowitz>Mar 25 00:56
schestowitz> P.S. I have attached an image of project managers logo if you if you would prefer to use it rather then a text link.Mar 25 00:56
schestowitzThe name of this troll fascinates me: :-)Mar 25 01:20
schestowitz 25 01:20
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scientessooo confused.....Mar 25 01:50
scientesits as if in atomized modern society real relationships don't existMar 25 01:50
scientesonly ones based on stereotypes and economicsMar 25 01:50
scientesor maybe I just see too much, that others arn't seeingMar 25 01:51
scientesor too little.... o0OMar 25 01:51
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scientesIM SO HAPPY!!!!Mar 25 06:17
schestowitzI'm the oppositeMar 25 07:45
schestowitzCause of the news from RussiaMar 25 07:45
schestowitzDumpingMar 25 07:45
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scientesdumping of...Mar 25 08:34
scientesno, this is real happinessMar 25 08:35
scientesmarriage is imminentMar 25 08:35
scientesquite exhileratingMar 25 08:35
scientescourtship was like 1 monthMar 25 08:37
scientesrediculously shortMar 25 08:37
scientesmy brain, soaked in oxytocinMar 25 08:40
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 25 14:57:24 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialMar 25 14:57
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Mar 25 14:57
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Mar 25 14:57
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MinceRyou could keep them from "having this discussion" on #bnMar 25 18:53
MinceRas you can see, Shd is clearly trollingMar 25 18:57
schestowitzYeah, it's funnyMar 25 18:59
MinceRkickban Shd already, he's abusing the channelMar 25 19:00
MinceRalso, someone should have put flood protection in the botMar 25 19:01
MinceRhe has autorejoin, he must be bannedMar 25 19:02
MinceRhe'll get around the nick ban...Mar 25 19:02
MinceRplease ban *!*@2001:41d0:2:2307::1Mar 25 19:04
schestowitzThanksMar 25 19:05
schestowitzVandalsMar 25 19:05
MinceRnpMar 25 19:06
schestowitzLong time since we were last trolled or DDOSedMar 25 19:08
schestowitzFirst time this yearMar 25 19:08
schestowitzInvite-only?Mar 25 19:12
MinceRi'm not sure yetMar 25 19:15
schestowitzThey'll get tiredMar 25 19:20
schestowitzTroll tourismMar 25 19:20
MinceRthey'll get bannedMar 25 19:20
MinceR:>Mar 25 19:20
schestowitzMutex gave upMar 25 19:21
schestowitzAlso in commentsMar 25 19:21
schestowitzMaybe he passed awayMar 25 19:21
schestowitzI'm keeping the bot out for nowMar 25 19:21
MinceRokMar 25 19:22
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schestowitzTurns out that RMS reads BNMar 26 07:31
schestowitzHe didn't like your insults of JobsMar 26 07:31
schestowitz> On reading that page, I felt that the IRC conversation quoted at theMar 26 07:31
schestowitz> end detracted from the point.  It was several people I don't knowMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> anything about, attacking Apple by imagining what it might do, andMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> expressing their thoughts inarticulately.  I think readers thatMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> recognize this will react by having less respect for your site.Mar 26 07:32
schestowitzIRC is usually public and most people recognise that it's informal. I agree that it doesn't add much in this case.Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> What Apple is really doing is sufficiently bad that we don't needMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> to quote a conversation like this to criticize it.Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz>Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> The question that I wonder about is this: is the software whichMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> implements the feature of unlocking the device in the HTC phoneMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> free software?Mar 26 07:32
schestowitzThere are 20 patents involved; some are clearly about Android and some journalists say Chrome OS too (it is based on Ubuntu, which is GNU/Linux).Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> I also readMar 26 07:32
schestowitz>Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> 26 07:32
schestowitz>Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> It says Apple has attacked Linux, but is the target of the attackMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> really Linux?Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz>Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> Apple is suing HTC, and the HTC phone runs software which includesMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> Linux.  But that doesn't make it clear whether the suit is aboutMar 26 07:32
schestowitz> Linux, or other software.  Do you know?Mar 26 07:32
schestowitzAndroid will be remerged into Linux and the Android implementation is targeted here, based on the claims made. This is why Google stepped in as a defender of HTC's case.Mar 26 07:32
schestowitz> The patent on using a gesture to unlock the phone probably does notMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> concern Linux, since that is a UI feature and would naturally beMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> implemented at a level of software rather far from Linux.  But I don'tMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> know what the other patents are, so I have no idea whether the claimedMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> infringement of any of them is in Linux.Mar 26 07:34
schestowitz>Mar 26 07:34
schestowitz> Another interesting question is whether any of the claimed infringementMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> is implemented in free software (perhaps Android).Mar 26 07:34
schestowitzAndroid is not entirely Free software (that would be like describing it as "half pregnant"), but the non-Free parts are mostly to do with communication, not the GUI.Mar 26 07:34
schestowitz> Using software patents for aggression is always wrong, so Apple'sMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> action is certainly bad.  But it does make a difference to ourMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> community whether the software being attacked is our community's freeMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> software, or proprietary software being distributed alongside ourMar 26 07:34
schestowitz> community's free software.Mar 26 07:34
schestowitzApple's challenge to HTC would generalise to almost any other distributor of Android. Thus, the patent case acts as a deterrent against a platform that uses Free software. I agree with your point, but looking at the circumstances, it's exactly the same explanation given when Microsoft sued TomTom for various things including its VFAT support. This is a preparation to collection of "royalties" from all users of the same FreeMar 26 07:34
schestowitzsoftware.Mar 26 07:34
schestowitzThe TomTom case taught that by claiming to just target one company the claimant clearly tries to establish a precedence that will make others buckle.Mar 26 07:34
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schestowitz[16:19] --> this_is_the_ice_ has joined this channel (~d8e8e8c2@gateway/web/freenode/x-aajevszpazrcyhov).Mar 26 16:19
schestowitzFishyMar 26 16:20
MinceRice_ice_baby_Mar 26 16:22
schestowitzUSENET still down for meMar 26 18:59
schestowitzWithdrawal sypmtoms not there thoiughMar 26 18:59
schestowitzHaven't posted in a week........Mar 26 18:59
schestowitz"I was wondering how it's coming along :-) No rush, just curious."Mar 26 18:59
schestowitzHardware failMar 26 19:00
schestowitzMassive oneMar 26 19:00
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schestowitzRMS:Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz> I just looked at some of the articles on that site.  They seem like good points, but the issues have nothing to do with Novell.Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz>Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz> The name boycottnovell comes across to me as too aggressive, and too narrow too.  Initially, perhaps, the site was focused on issues concerning Novell, but now it has extended far beyond that.  A boycott is just one weapon, useful sometimes but not applicable in all the cases you write about.Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz>Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz> I think that if you switch to a new name that better reflects the range of subjects, and takes a better calculated tone, the site would have more influence.Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz>Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz> The issues mostly to concern how microsoft operates covertly or through proxies.  But there are some articles about Apple, too. Do they all concern big businesses attacking free software?Mar 28 12:03
schestowitzPlease allow me to begin with clarifications. "Boycott Novell" is not a name that I chose. The site was born shortly after the Microsoft/Novell deal had been signed and its creator later invited me to help edit because I was well known among GNU/Linux and Free software supporters. Over time I wrote about 10,000 pages (about 10 per day) in "Boycott Novell" alone. I write a lot more in other places and pace limits my ability toMar 28 12:03
schestowitzremove weasel phrases that are typed at the heat of the moment and posted almost instantaneously. I am aware that there is room for improvement and your feedback helps me greatly.Mar 28 12:03
schestowitz"The Web site's name was maintained for technical reasons (existing URLs) and because people who follow me resisted my attempts to rename it. I never liked the name, not even when I first joined as an editor. We enjoy a very active IRC forum where ideas are brought up and ideas are formed. They chose to stick with the existing name and I respected that."Mar 28 12:04
schestowitz""Boycott Novell" is a poor name for such a site as I address threats to Free software in general and a lot of ethical issues too. I don't personify companies and I don't offer favourism to any (like Google, IBM, and Amazon, whose threats I understand). I've been reading all the items on your site on a daily basis and I too post groups of links, such as this ones that I posted just 10 minutes ago < 28 12:04
schestowitz2010/03/25/fsf-award-winners/ > (sometimes these are bi-daily postings; I spend over 100 hours/week advocating Free software)."Mar 28 12:04
MinceRis the resistance about changing the domain name or about changing the name of the site?Mar 28 12:06
schestowitzBothMar 28 12:06
schestowitzToo much troubleMar 28 12:06
schestowitzI guess some people get used to it, not errant visitorsMar 28 12:07
schestowitzMononon renamedMar 28 12:07
schestowitz->The SourceMar 28 12:07
schestowitz*Mono-nonoMar 28 12:07
MinceRperhaps the site could get more visitors if its name reflected its broader mission. the old domain name could still point to it, with links intact (though i'm not entirely aware of the issues with doing that)Mar 28 12:08
schestowitzI thought about it, but it's trickyMar 28 12:09
schestowitzAlso how people recognise the sourceMar 28 12:09
schestowitzAt least it's not called "boycott Microsoft"Mar 28 12:10
schestowitzThat would not eb goodMar 28 12:10
schestowitzCriticism of Microsoft (in general, with exceptions) gives anyone who tries it a lot of flak. It falls under the stereotype of "Microsoft hater" or "irrational hatred" (Microsoft uses other labels).Mar 28 12:10
schestowitzCriticism of Microsoft has put me under a lot pressure, trouble, and abuse, including libel against me and harassment though employers. I usually manage to catch the sources of the attacks and even identify Microsoft employees outside US juristriction who are responsible for it. I reported this to then FTC and received replies. To be fair, Microsoft is not the only company that resorts to such distateful methods.Mar 28 12:10
schestowitzMicrosoft also keeps dossiers (now leaked) on people who write about it; it retaliates against "dissenters" by repeatedly mocking them and intimidating them. I base this on factual evidence that I have gathered, not on speculations. maybe oiaohm got flagged too :DMar 28 12:10
MinceRicMar 28 12:11
MinceRhow about something positive, like "protect free software"? :)Mar 28 12:11
MinceRor "defend"Mar 28 12:15
oiaohmMost of the time I get left alone schestowitzMar 28 12:53
oiaohmMostly because they are not what you call anno attackers if they come in my direction.Mar 28 12:54
schestowitzMinceR: "Free software" is not commonly understoodMar 28 12:57
schestowitzI'd rather be seen as promoting other causesMar 28 12:57
schestowitzI've just mailed my grandpa about it actually........Mar 28 12:57
oiaohm  You are seeing this more and more.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzIt's a rant actually...Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzI'll paste it here.Mar 28 12:59
oiaohmPeople forget the xbox and the xbox360 by microsoftMar 28 12:59
schestowitz"Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzI've made the big news again and I have decided to explain to you what I am up to because it's almost Easter, so I have free time. I hope this does not come across as an inappropriately boring subject to bring up, but last month I contacted friends (some of them professors), to whom I told that I am at a crossroad where I can either stick with academia/research or continue to work on advancing freedom and civil rights.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzPeople who are knowledgeable in this area said that they would contact me regarding the subject and even check some options for me. I have a Ph.D. in Medical Biophysical, which I earned with the head of the Computer Science department in one of the 6 best (a 5* RAE ranking) Computer Science departments in the UK.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzHe has an OBE and he would happily recommend me to anyone willing to offer me an opportunity (which I hope is possible at the capacity that only fulfills my basic needs, as I hardly require funding to publish online).Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzThe media is transforming very fast as newspapers are dying (mostly in paper form, which gets phased out) and people like myself fill the gap. I view this as an important gap.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzPeople who used to send information to journalists are now approaching me privately for coverage because they understand the shift. The longer I do this, the better it gets. On several occasions I was urged to write books, but books too are a dying media.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzI happen to know (and have met) some clever and valuable people and I attended important events over the years -- events where I met some influential people who open doors. The main issue that I have with full-time jobs that they occupy entire days. What they can offer is huge monetary gain, but that would require making concessions when it comes to activities that only I can cover (individuality and freedom of expression).Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzThese activities require years of learning. I have other achievements and skills which I can offer to these causes, including my authority and name. I play an important role in the area I'm involved in.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzAll the code I have ever produced is Free(dom) software which is used by many, I received honours for some of it (MATLAB ranked me first in the world at one point), and yet my bigger impact has probably more to do with analyses that I published and reached millions of people, especially people in the different areas of technology.Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzIt's also what had me invited to participate in a film that will air in Swiss and French television next month (and maybe US cable too).Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzLike few other people who explore this type of field (including an inspiration and friend which is Pamela from Groklaw, whom I've been in daily touch with since 2006), I now serve approximately 10,000 human visitors (UIPs) per day and I realise that if I cannot fit this into/with a framework that supports it fully (supporting it in terms of mere acceptance, since financially it is simple and I have done that for years), I willMar 28 12:59
schestowitzneed to stop watching the ball and just make money with a full-time job (meaning that no time will be left for advancement of more important goals).Mar 28 12:59
schestowitzAfter so many years of learning and understanding the intricacies of the subject where I have tremendous impact, that would be a waste and a shame to many. I hope you principally support my efforts with realisation that this is the best route I can take as it would be most beneficial to my future. I currently consider looking for a part-time job in research (exploiting my doctorate degree).Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzI realise that there are particular norms which are encouraged through peers and the education system. There are particular patterns in life that we are encouraged to take and assume are best for all people. In reality, however, depending on one's expertise and ambitions, the model proposed by most people simply does not fit.Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzThe people to whom I struggle to explain this are usually those who are most indoctrinated, whereas just about any professor that I speak to agrees with me fully and finds many things to talk to me about. It's mostly discussion about ideas and the workings of systems, not just people or mere occasions.Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzI perceive this current position as a sign of maturity, not confusion at all. People read what I write because it is sufficiently insightful, not superficial. I am generally a very happy person who is pleased with just about everything.Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzPossessions do not make me happier, expression does. The Western culture has led a lot of people to the belief that maximisation of wealth is the sole goal, but about 8 years ago I realised that this vision is flawed and reaching out to those who consume for the betterment of few stakeholders.Mar 28 13:00
schestowitz"Mar 28 13:00
schestowitz /end randMar 28 13:00
schestowitz /end rantMar 28 13:00
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, DRMMar 28 13:00
schestowitz"However, we've been noticing a change in approach for the last couple of years. Microsoft started to work with standarization bodies like ISO and W3C, it stopped sending hostile messages to the FLOSS world and eventually even started developing open source software itself, to a limited degree."Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzNot trueMar 28 13:00
schestowitzHehe.Mar 28 13:00
schestowitz"started to work with standarization bodies like ISO"Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzIf bribing is work then yeah...Mar 28 13:00
schestowitzMicrosoft only shattered ISO and made a mockery of itMar 28 13:01
*schestowitz still readingMar 28 13:01
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, some of the points raised by me is that Microsoft is not the sole problem, like ender* chooses to view itMar 28 13:02
schestowitzComment: "Microsoft has made noises and PR about it being OSS friendly, but it's all show."Mar 28 13:03
schestowitzyeah, I can't link to thatMar 28 13:03
schestowitzToo much whitewashing there for MicrosoftMar 28 13:03
oiaohmReads very much like a MS supporting PR guy.Mar 28 13:04
schestowitzBorys MusielakMar 28 13:04
schestowitzI'm surprised he wrote thatMar 28 13:04
schestowitzHe runs PolishLinuxMar 28 13:04
schestowitzNow dormantMar 28 13:04
schestowitzANyway, bblMar 28 13:05
schestowitzg2gMar 28 13:05
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**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 28 18:30:14 2010
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 28 18:30:50 2010
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialMar 28 18:30
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Mar 28 18:30
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Mar 28 18:30
schestowitz,1518,681525,00.htmlMar 28 18:43
*MinceR_ is now known as MinceRMar 28 19:08
schestowitz 28 23:03
schestowitz*LOL* 28 23:05
schestowitz 28 23:30
schestowitzThis is nice..... 28 23:42
schestowitzOn push-polling: 29 00:24
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schestowitzRe: 29 07:53
schestowitzRMS looking for advice:Mar 29 07:53
schestowitz>     Criticism of Microsoft (in general, with exceptions) gives anyone whoMar 29 07:53
schestowitz>     tries it a lot of flak. It falls under the stereotype of "MicrosoftMar 29 07:53
schestowitz>Mar 29 07:53
schestowitz> This is interesting, and worth publicizing.  But do you suggest anyMar 29 07:53
schestowitz> change in that page?Mar 29 07:53
schestowitzI think there can be a parapgraph on Microsoft's rather unqiue position of wanting to hurt GNU/Linux. Most proprietary software companies are not in this position because they don't rely on proprietary software.Mar 29 07:53
schestowitzThat's what makes Microsoft so unique. Well, that and illegal activities (with convictions).Mar 29 07:53
schestowitzAlso see 29 07:53
schestowitzOMG Texas. 29 11:52
schestowitz 29 12:00
schestowitz 29 12:11
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schestowitzI old RMS: "> As a side note, I know you are aware of Microsoft's lobby for software patents in Europe as well as other continents (myself and others -- like FFII -- are working to expose this). The TomTom incident and the recent attempt of OIN to foil sales of Microsoft patents to patent trolls is just part of a broader picture and I know that you are aware that to Microsoft, GNU/Linux is no "spectator sport". Last weekMar 29 16:37
schestowitzevidence surfaced which shows that EDGI still exists (Russian schools). EDGI was exposed by a chain of internal E-mails which show how Microsoft reacts very selectively to prevent migrations to GNU/Linux in a lot of nations (the Commission called this anti-competitive). Other leaked E-mails show that Microsoft created a taskforce to take GNU/Linux PCs off the shelves in Wal-Mart in 2006. There are over 9,000 other exhibitsMar 29 16:37
schestowitzthat could be mentioned."Mar 29 16:37
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schestowitzStupud Microsoft lobbyists again.......Mar 29 17:29
schestowitzmail:Mar 29 17:29
schestowitz"Mar 29 17:30
schestowitzHi,Mar 29 17:30
schestowitzIt has come to my attention through former MP David Hammerstein that:Mar 29 17:30
schestowitz"Kroes is about to eliminate "open standards" policy from EU digital agenda"Mar 29 17:30
schestowitz"Kroes has been under intense lobbying pressure from Microsoft to get rid of interoperability and open source goals of EU"Mar 29 17:30
schestowitz"Kroes wanted the EU institutions to practice what it preaches and migrate to open standards in its own software. Big backlash"Mar 29 17:30
schestowitz"DG enterprise and "revolving door" EC officials from Microsoft torpedo Commissioner Kroes open proposals. Coup in process."Mar 29 17:30
schestowitzI would like to ask and hopefully receive reassurance that the EIF retains its original goals of emphasising standards. I have been covering quite extensively the lobbying done to subvert Kroes' work and I wish to see it not suppressing the European software industry, of which I am a part.Mar 29 17:30
schestowitzBest of wishes,Mar 29 17:30
schestowitzDr. Roy S. SchestowitzMar 29 17:30
schestowitz"Mar 29 17:30
schestowitzMinceR: nag them tooMar 29 17:30
schestowitzCAB-TAJANI-WEBPAGE@ec.europa.euMar 29 17:30
schestowitzMichel.Barnier@ec.europa.euMar 29 17:30
schestowitzoana.boldis@ec.europa.euMar 29 17:30
schestowitz 29 17:49
schestowitz 29 18:47
schestowitzLMAO. 29 19:36
schestowitz 29 19:41
schestowitzPR bunnies again...::Mar 29 20:16
schestowitz> Roy,Mar 29 20:16
schestowitz> FSMLabs, the premier provider of _enterprise real-time and timekeepingMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> technology for Linux systems_, will soon announce its new TimeKeeper 3.0Mar 29 20:16
schestowitz> product, which helps financial services and other regulated industriesMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> deploy critical applications across clusters, among data centers andMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> over wide-area networks, while meeting requirements for accurateMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> time-stamping and data logging with high transaction volumes.Mar 29 20:16
schestowitz> FSMLabs TimeKeeper is superbly suited to synchronizing applicationsMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> driven by market data feeds, enabling precise time stamping of globallyMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> distributed transactions without changes in hardware or applicationMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> software.  FSMLabs TimeKeeper technology originated as a solution forMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> military and aerospace applications and is rigorously tested andMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> validated, bringing the stringent quality assurance and performance ofMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> that market.Mar 29 20:16
schestowitz> FSM Labs TimeKeeper 3.0 is an end-to-end, pure software solution thatMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> supports synchronization of system clocks to _within 10 microsecondsMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> accuracy_ over standard networks.  _That is 1000 times more accurateMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> than other solutions on the market today_. TimeKeeper has already beenMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> deployed in beta at multiple financial services companies. TheMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> TimeKeeper client-server architecture supports all types of systems thatMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> today use NTP (Network Time Protocol).Mar 29 20:16
schestowitz> I would be happy to set up a phone call for you to speak with _VictorMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> Yodaiken, CEO of FSMLabs_, in advance of the company’s announcement onMar 29 20:16
schestowitz> _Tuesday. April 12th_. Let me know your availability.Mar 29 20:16
schestowitzRMS:Mar 29 20:47
schestowitz>     I think there can be a paragraph on Microsoft's rather unqiue positionMar 29 20:47
schestowitz>     of wanting to hurt GNU/Linux. Most proprietary software companies areMar 29 20:47
schestowitz>     not in this position because they don't necessarily rely on proprietaryMar 29 20:47
schestowitz>     _operating systems_.Mar 29 20:47
schestowitz>Mar 29 20:47
schestowitz> That is true, but it doesn't change all that much, sinceMar 29 20:47
schestowitz> proprietary applications are unjust too.Mar 29 20:47
schestowitzYes, I reckoned you would respond with this argument.Mar 29 20:47
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schestowitzRMS sends me lots today :-)Mar 30 00:57
schestowitz>     I do not like Android all that much. I told Linus about the issues withMar 30 00:57
schestowitz>     DRM in it, but he seems apathetic.Mar 30 00:57
schestowitz>Mar 30 00:57
schestowitz> I would not expect Torvalds to care about freedom issues, but I do.Mar 30 00:57
schestowitz> Can you show me an article that talks about the DRM in Android?Mar 30 00:57
schestowitzAndroid DRM is used to register applications, AFAIK. See for example:Mar 30 00:58
schestowitz"Android Market DRM busted < 12 hrs!"Mar 30 00:58
schestowitz 30 00:58
schestowitz Mar 30 00:58
schestowitzFull text:Mar 30 00:58
schestowitz=========QUOTE============Mar 30 00:58
schestowitz>     Android is a complete platform that includes modified Linux and no GNUMar 30 01:00
schestowitz>     at all. Android is maintained by many developers from Google and IMar 30 01:00
schestowitz>     believe it's now a patchset to Linux, which cannot be included in theMar 30 01:00
schestowitz>     main branch anymore.Mar 30 01:00
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:00
schestowitz> I cannot reconcile these two statements.  First you say it is aMar 30 01:00
schestowitz> complete platform that includes a modified Linux.  Second you sayMar 30 01:00
schestowitz> it "is" a patchset to Linux.  Is all of Android a modified versionMar 30 01:00
schestowitz> of Linux?  Or does it include something else as well?Mar 30 01:00
schestowitzGoogle takes Linux, adds some changes to it, then combines it with Google's own software (remainder of the stack) which is mostly but not entirely Free software. It uses some other Free software projects to capitalise on reuse.Mar 30 01:00
schestowitz>     EDGI is a programme Microsoft has for countering adoption of GNU/Linux.Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz> That is its purpose, but what does it DO?Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz>     It is shown in a fine level of detail in antitrust exhibits.Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz> I don't need the fine level of detail, but a few sentencesMar 30 01:04
schestowitz> of overview would enable me to understand your point.Mar 30 01:04
schestowitzEDGI is mentioned in the Windows 7 Sins campaign. EDGI is an internal code name, like "Project Marshall" for MOU.Mar 30 01:04
schestowitzThe documents specifically mention “Microsoft Unlimited Potential Programme” which, to put it simply, is Microsoft’s anti-GNU/Linux programme. For education, Microsoft has a particular programme called “Education and Government Incentives program” (EDGI) for blocking GNU/Linux adoption where the problem (Microsoft calls it "Linux infestation") arises.Mar 30 01:04
schestowitz> How about posting a statement saying you don't like the name, and youMar 30 01:06
schestowitz> never did, and saying why.  It could continue asking people to pleaseMar 30 01:07
schestowitz> support a change to a name that would better express the site'sMar 30 01:07
schestowitz> mission and could make it more effective.Mar 30 01:07
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:07
schestowitz> Then you could suggest some names you are considering, and ask peopleMar 30 01:07
schestowitz> which they like, and invite them to send you other suggestions.Mar 30 01:07
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:07
schestowitz> Reading and considering those suggestions will take work, but youMar 30 01:07
schestowitz> might get a good suggestion, and the readers, having participated,Mar 30 01:07
schestowitz> will get to like the idea.Mar 30 01:07
schestowitzThat seems worthwhile. I will start asking.Mar 30 01:07
schestowitz> Unfortunately, our funding is down also.  I think we are notMar 30 01:14
schestowitz> going to immediately hire a replacement for a person who just left,Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz> until we see if our income covers one.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz>Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz> One other point is that your independence from us makes yourMar 30 01:14
schestowitz> work more effective, while at the same time avoiding tying us toMar 30 01:14
schestowitz> anything you say.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitzSome dishonest people have improperly attempted to draw a connection. I posted disclaimers clarifying that this is not the case at all. It's completely imaginary.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz> Where did your funds come from before?  How much do you need?Mar 30 01:14
schestowitzI never had any funds at all. I live in a state of minimalism and my expenses hardly exceed 600 pounds per month.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz> Have you asked the readers for donations?Mar 30 01:14
schestowitzI haven't. I feel as though it would discredit and harm my message. People know that I do this voluntarily, so they can never say something about affiliation or motives.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz> Another possibility is to run ads.  I think it is better not to haveMar 30 01:14
schestowitz> ads, but ads might be better than shutting down.  To avoid proprietaryMar 30 01:14
schestowitz> software ads, you can use AdBard.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitzI have used AdBard for about a year. It pays just enough for server hosting.Mar 30 01:14
schestowitz[02:15] <schestowitz> The FSF might support usMar 30 02:21
schestowitz[02:15] <schestowitz> RMS just wants to renameMar 30 02:21
schestowitzMar 30 02:21
schestowitz[02:20] <tessier_> Ah. Cool!Mar 30 02:21
schestowitzMar 30 02:23
schestowitz[02:22] <tessier_> is available, surprisinglyMar 30 02:23
schestowitz[03:20] <NZheretic> ??Mar 30 03:35
schestowitz[03:21] <NZheretic> competewatch.orgMar 30 03:35
schestowitz[03:25] <schestowitz> We already chose oneMar 30 03:35
schestowitz[03:25] <schestowitz> techrightsMar 30 03:35
schestowitz[03:26] <NZheretic> Are you going to be focusing on technical freedoms or competition?Mar 30 03:35
schestowitz[03:26] <schestowitz> Same issuesMar 30 03:35
schestowitz[03:26] <NZheretic> Ok.Mar 30 03:35
schestowitzMar 30 03:36
schestowitz[03:29] <NZheretic> In that case you might want to also grab the domains "techwrongs" as well.Mar 30 03:36
schestowitz[03:29] <schestowitz> AH...Mar 30 03:36
schestowitz[03:29] <schestowitz> Yeah, well, the one with rights is vacantMar 30 03:36
schestowitz[03:29] <schestowitz> First we change just name, not domainMar 30 03:36
schestowitzMar 30 04:36
schestowitz[04:14] <NZheretic> techrights.(org|net|com) - focusing on end owner's/user tech consumer rights  and competition . techwrongs.(org|net|com) focusing on actions by Microsoft and other actions limiting your freedoms to use and compete. techchoices.(org|net|com) a site kept up to data "helping" consumers to pick more techright friendly options.Mar 30 04:36
schestowitzRMS:Mar 30 08:57
schestowitz>     The documents specifically mention ?Microsoft Unlimited PotentialMar 30 08:57
schestowitz>     Programme? which, to put it simply, is Microsoft?s anti-GNU/LinuxMar 30 08:57
schestowitz>     programme. For education, Microsoft has a particular programme calledMar 30 08:57
schestowitz>     ?Education and Government Incentives program? (EDGI) for blockingMar 30 08:57
schestowitz>     GNU/Linux adoption where the problem (Microsoft calls it "LinuxMar 30 08:58
schestowitz>     infestation") arises.Mar 30 08:58
schestowitz>Mar 30 08:58
schestowitz> Now I understand what you are talking about.  I know they offer discountsMar 30 08:58
schestowitz> to influential institutions.  Do we have anything from them admittingMar 30 08:58
schestowitz> that this is meant for fighting with us?Mar 30 08:58
schestowitzYes, there are many E-mails from antitrust exhibits.Mar 30 08:58
schestowitz>     Some dishonest people have improperly attempted to draw a connection. IMar 30 08:59
schestowitz>     posted disclaimers clarifying that this is not the case at all. It'sMar 30 08:59
schestowitz>     completely imaginary.Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz> Exactly.  Now, it's completely imaginary.  But if we were to startMar 30 08:59
schestowitz> paying you, that would make it the truth.Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>     > Have you asked the readers for donations?Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>     I haven't. I feel as though it would discredit and harm my message.Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz> I don't see why.Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz>Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz> Greg Palast asks for donations to his investigative fund.Mar 30 08:59
schestowitz> I sent a hundred dollars last winter.  I am proud of contributingMar 30 09:00
schestowitz> but I am sure it gives me no influence over his stories.Mar 30 09:00
schestowitz> It sounds like this is an Android/Linux system rather than a GNU/LinuxMar 30 09:02
schestowitz> system.Mar 30 09:02
schestowitzYes, but some GNU/Linux systems would potentially be impacted by the lawsuit.Mar 30 09:02
schestowitz Mar 30 09:02
schestowitz> I would guess that it is very different from GNU/Linux for the user.Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz> Is that so?  (Have you used it?)Mar 30 09:03
schestowitzYes, a friend has it. This system is very different.Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz>     Android DRM is used to register applications, AFAIK. See for example:Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz>Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz> I am not sure what that means.Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz>Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz> I tried reading the article you included but I couldn't make sense ofMar 30 09:03
schestowitz> the first paragraph.  Then it asks "What is a protected application"Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz> but seems to go on a wild goose chase rather than answer it.Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz> So I gave up.Mar 30 09:03
schestowitzIt is "protected" from the user. Copy "protection".Mar 30 09:03
schestowitz[10:35] <schestowitz> I was persuaded to rename after many E-mails with RMS.Mar 30 10:36
schestowitz[10:35] <schestowitz> "Mar 30 10:36
schestowitz[10:35] <schestowitz> With your kind advice, I have taken the first steps towards renaming the site.Mar 30 10:36
schestowitz[10:35] <schestowitz> Have a look at (we might migrate to another domain).Mar 30 10:36
schestowitz[10:35] <schestowitz> Images and graphics were donated by several contributors and the nameMar 30 10:36
schestowitz[10:35] <schestowitz> we all decided on (after considering about 30 names) is TechRights.Mar 30 10:36
schestowitz[10:36] <schestowitz> "Mar 30 10:36
MinceR:)Mar 30 11:37
MinceRi hope you've already grabbed the domainsMar 30 11:46
schestowitzNot yetMar 30 11:49
schestowitzI want to check with tessier how simple it would be to redirectMar 30 11:49
schestowitzWe need a complete mapping of URLsMar 30 11:50
schestowitzAnd Google would probably not "like" itMar 30 11:50
schestowitzI knew people who tried it and got trashed by GoogleMar 30 11:50
MinceRany enemies of BN watching the site probably already know what the domains could beMar 30 11:54
MinceRso it would be advisable to act quickly :)Mar 30 11:55
schestowitzI knowMar 30 11:55
schestowitzOK, I'll at least register itMar 30 11:55
schestowitzNic McVitie: Hello, how may I help you?Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: Good morning. My name is Roy, I've been a customer with you for 6 years. I wish to do more business: ....Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: But I have some quick questionMar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: If I pass my domains from GoDaddy to you, how much time would it take?Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: IIRC, there's some 3-month gap rule or some other ICANN rule like thatMar 30 12:08
schestowitzNic McVitie:'s can take a matter of minutes .com's take a day or there abouts.Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: Ah :-)Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: Another thing is, can I have domains register with you point to my name server?Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzNic McVitie: Sure, all you would need to do is tell us the nameservers and we can update that.Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: Excellent. Maybe we can sort it out now?Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: I suppose I need to tell you which domains or I can use an online form on your site?Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzNic McVitie: It would be best that you e-mail us at that way we have a record of the changes. Is that OK?Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: Sure :-)Mar 30 12:08
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz: Thanks a lot. Have a great dayMar 30 12:08
schestowitzOK, I ought to have it done soon.Mar 30 12:28
schestowitz> Thanks RoyMar 30 13:53
schestowitz>Mar 30 13:53
schestowitz> Can you confirm the old full postal address and the new full postal address and I will go ahead with that.Mar 30 13:53
schestowitzMy personal site is registered under the work address:Mar 30 13:53
schestowitz   Manchester UniversityMar 30 13:53
schestowitz   Roy SchestowitzMar 30 13:53
schestowitz   Sir Charles Groves HallMar 30 13:53
schestowitz   Manchester,    Lancashire    M15 5RRMar 30 13:53 and were registered under my currentMar 30 13:53
schestowitzaddress, of of them with my work E-mail address (ISBE). I no longerMar 30 13:53
schestowitzregister my sites with the University address, though.Mar 30 13:53
schestowitzAlmost done nowMar 30 13:53
schestowitzBTW, the trolls abused the system in USENET to mass-report me to Google, which has just cleared the result of their abuse. They realised that got conned by trolls and retracted. :-)Mar 30 20:25
schestowitz>     > Now I understand what you are talking about.  I know they offer discountsMar 31 00:34
schestowitz>     > to influential institutions.  Do we have anything from them admittingMar 31 00:34
schestowitz>     > that this is meant for fighting with us?Mar 31 00:34
schestowitz>Mar 31 00:34
schestowitz>     Yes, there are many E-mails from antitrust exhibits.Mar 31 00:34
schestowitz>Mar 31 00:35
schestowitz> It would be useful to set up a web page to make that case for theMar 31 00:35
schestowitz> public, referring to copies of these emails at the suitable spots toMar 31 00:35
schestowitz> back up the case.Mar 31 00:35
schestowitzMy site already has those. References to my site reached the front page of major sites like Slashdot, so many people are aware.Mar 31 00:35
schestowitz> Where is too narrow, techrights is too broad.Mar 31 00:38
schestowitz> Most people, on seeing the name techrights, will not think of freeMar 31 00:38
schestowitz> software, or software at all.Mar 31 00:38
schestowitz>Mar 31 00:38
schestowitz> Also, it doesn't visibly take any side on anything.  I could easilyMar 31 00:38
schestowitz> imagine a site set up by the MPAA and RIAA with that name.  After all,Mar 31 00:38
schestowitz> they call the restrictions of Digital Restrictions ManagementMar 31 00:38
schestowitz> "rights"!Mar 31 00:38
schestowitzThe content of the site -- not its name -- ought to explain the stance without evoking prejudice, I think.Mar 31 00:38
schestowitz>     Yes, but some GNU/Linux systems would potentially be impacted by theMar 31 00:41
schestowitz>     lawsuit.Mar 31 00:41
schestowitz>Mar 31 00:41
schestowitz> In principle, it could be so.  Do you know what operations inMar 31 00:41
schestowitz> GNU/Linux systems might be affected by these patents?Mar 31 00:41
schestowitzHere is why Chrome OS (GNU/Linux) may be impacted:Mar 31 00:41
schestowitz Mar 31 00:41
schestowitz 31 00:41
schestowitz[01:42] <Eruaran_> I used one of those logo sites so I'm not sure if anyone will ever claim copyright... I will change the original one a bit to safeguard against thatMar 31 01:44
schestowitzHmmmmmm... :-|Mar 31 01:44
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schestowitzRMS:Mar 31 20:05
schestowitz>     My site already has those. References to my site reached the front pageMar 31 20:05
schestowitz>     of major sites like Slashdot, so many people are aware.Mar 31 20:05
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:06
schestowitz> Good.  Could you tell me the principle URL for this whole topic?Mar 31 20:06
schestowitz> I can give you feedback and I can link to it too.Mar 31 20:06
schestowitzBased on my correspondence with you, I have just typed up an introduction at:Mar 31 20:06
schestowitz 31 20:06
schestowitz>     > Where is too narrow, techrights is too broad.Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     > Most people, on seeing the name techrights, will not think of freeMar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     > software, or software at all.Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     >Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     > Also, it doesn't visibly take any side on anything.  I could easilyMar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     > imagine a site set up by the MPAA and RIAA with that name.  After all,Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     > they call the restrictions of Digital Restrictions ManagementMar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     > "rights"!Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     The content of the site -- not its name -- ought to explain the stanceMar 31 20:17
schestowitz>     without evoking prejudice, I think.Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz> I see several ways to interpret that sentence, so I am confused.Mar 31 20:17
schestowitzTo use an analogy from a Chinese reader, if you show a chicken the kitchen knife, then it runs away. That's why "Boycott Novell" led readers to realising our bias in advance. It made us less effective. "Boycott Novell" is now listed as one goal (among several) of the site.Mar 31 20:17
schestowitz> I think that the site name should set the spirit of what you're doing,Mar 31 20:19
schestowitz> as much as feasible given the constraints of what will fit in a usableMar 31 20:19
schestowitz> name.Mar 31 20:19
schestowitzWhile discussing this we brought up "watcher", "watch", and "monitor". We were close to settling on those, but then we shifted to something broader, by choice. The site's daily links cover issues of ethics (similar to the ones listed in, so some readers suggested a very broad scope with more focused goals that are subsets (like abolishing software patents). We had registered a new domain before we got a chance toMar 31 20:20
schestowitzhear from you.Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz> Terms like "sentry", "radar", "watchtower", "early warning" occur toMar 31 20:20
schestowitz> me to describe the function of what you do.  For what you do it for,Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz> we could focus either on those defended or on the attackers.  WordsMar 31 20:20
schestowitz> that occur to me include "free software", "GNU/Linux", "free world",Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz> "freedom", "tech user".Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz> Combinations I like include "free software sentry" and "GNU/LinuxMar 31 20:20
schestowitz> Watchtower".Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz> Some political or religious group had, or has, a newspaper called theMar 31 20:20
schestowitz> Watchtower.  I don't recall who.  If it was a right-wing politicalMar 31 20:20
schestowitz> group and if it has been forgotten for long enough, the comparisonMar 31 20:20
schestowitz> might be useful.  Otherwise it could be a reason to avoid "watchtower".Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz> So I am led to this:Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz>Mar 31 20:20
schestowitz>                 Free Software SentryMar 31 20:20
schestowitz>   Watching and reporting our adversaries maneuversMar 31 20:20
schestowitzI have just changed the site's tagline to that. It will appear at the top of all 10,000+ pages.Mar 31 20:20
*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-socialMar 31 23:02

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