Boycott Novell logo

IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: June 2009

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schestowitz<tessier> I still see plenty of packets bouncing off the firewall. But to no effect. The site has been solid for a few days now. Eventually I will put it behind some real firewalls and a webapp firewall etc.Jun 01 22:16
schestowitz<schestowitz> Thanks! :-)Jun 01 22:16
schestowitz<schestowitz> Some people say it's slowJun 01 22:16
schestowitz<schestowitz> Sometimes not respondingJun 01 22:16
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schestowitzSome more people have mailed me about trouble accessing the site. It must be the firewall...Jun 02 08:22
schestowitz<schestowitz> Some more people have mailed me about trouble accessing the site. It must be the firewall...Jun 02 08:35
schestowitz<tessier> Could be...Jun 02 08:35
schestowitz<tessier> I can open it up a bit more...Jun 02 08:35
schestowitz<schestowitz> Maybe if I have a trigger for enabling it if attacks begin..Jun 02 08:35
schestowitz<schestowitz> like firewall.shJun 02 08:35
schestowitz<tessier> I just set it to require 30 hits in 30 seconds instead of 15Jun 02 08:37
oiaohmCheck those emails schestowitz.Jun 02 08:50
oiaohmCarefully for anyone trying to hide who they are.Jun 02 08:51
oiaohmWould not be the first time I have see a defeated attacker email the site to try to get the filtering turned off.Jun 02 08:51
oiaohmYes it and old text book sucker punch.Jun 02 08:52
schestowitzIt's people I knowJun 02 09:36
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schestowitzThe new ads have just been publicly announced (press release). Google ads merely paid the hosting fees. We got DDOSed (almost 2 weeks now... still going in bursts) and moved to dedicated, so I hope to pay the hosting bill with these adsJun 02 16:28
schestowitzNewspapers are dying. This gives a form of indication where publishing goes as an activity worth of compensation to writers. Writing, to a large extent like code, becomes commodity. My point of view is that if writings promote something like PTS or enable some artists to perform in public, then the idea of having incentives to write remain. I do it for fun.Jun 02 16:31
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schestowitzI'm adding one small banner at the side instead of Google. it causes no conflict and the money will go to the host via PayPal.Jun 02 20:56
MinceRnice.Jun 02 21:05
schestowitzFOSS onlyJun 02 21:05
schestowitz<mike_sideris> Hi, Roy.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> I can only assume you read the email I sent you?Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> Hm, maybe I'm still blocked.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> Are you sure? I sent it from iliketowritestuff@gmail.comJun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> I'll leave if you really want me to.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> But I'm just trying to be a polite little visitor.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> Becuase truth be told.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<schestowitz> Try s@schestowitz.comJun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> I really do love the FOSS community.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> I tried sending it to the one you gave me, as well as your original from your personal site.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitz<mike_sideris> I just feel that I ought to set the record straight on a few things is all.Jun 02 22:23
schestowitzThe BN hater is backJun 02 22:23
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schestowitzHere is the announcement about us joining the network 03 19:08
MinceRniceJun 03 20:40
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schestowitzAnother DDoS it seems.Jun 04 11:43
oiaohmHopefully not blocking google.Jun 04 12:07
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MinceRthe web server appears to be unreachable.Jun 05 10:28
MinceRddos?Jun 05 10:28
oiaohmI have a feeling someone might have kicked something important they were talking about cron jobs before MinceRJun 05 10:35
MinceRindeedJun 05 10:36
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MinceRcouldn't we change this policy of not kicking trolls even if it kills meaningful discussion and wastes everyone's attention?Jun 06 23:23
schestowitzI thought about itJun 06 23:52
schestowitzNext time we'll ignore themJun 06 23:52
schestowitzHomo erectus Utlimate Edition kills all species.. Amazon rainforests pay the price as demand for beef soars < >Jun 06 23:53
schestowitzMaybe we'll go get those deep-seas octopuses when 'stuff' to devour runs outJun 06 23:53
schestowitzMaybe we'll find a way to turn fossil fuel to body fuelJun 06 23:54
schestowitzExxon, the restaurant.. opening soon..Jun 06 23:54
schestowitz"pay-per-pee fee" 06 23:55
MinceRand what will happen to the public log then?Jun 06 23:56
MinceRwill it be full of crapflood from trolls?Jun 06 23:57
schestowitzI guess.Jun 07 00:06
schestowitzRare embarrassmentJun 07 00:06
schestowitzMake MS look like drunk wankersJun 07 00:06
MinceRand make the logs uselessJun 07 00:06
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 8 17:21:13 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 08 17:21
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 08 17:21
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 08 17:21
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzJun 08 17:22
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell-social schestowitzJun 08 17:22
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJun 08 17:22
*#boycottnovell-social :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: 08 17:23
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schestowitzDDoS againJun 09 10:16
schestowitzSOBsJun 09 10:16
schestowitzThey seem to have just struck again.Jun 09 10:18
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schestowitzoiaohm: DDOS againJun 09 10:21
schestowitzI wrongly thought they got boredJun 09 10:21
schestowitzAnd there was one attack yesterday too (at least)Jun 09 10:21
schestowitzboycottnovell also got infested with the linsux crowdJun 09 10:21
oiaohmlinsux guys are playing with fire.Jun 09 10:22
oiaohmIts just getting too much to be chance that there interest and influx of ddos attacks line up.Jun 09 10:23
schestowitzCan you reach the site?Jun 09 10:28
oiaohmmy bandwidth will still be limited until mid night tonight.   So I cannot get to the site at moment but that might be my end.Jun 09 10:32
schestowitzI've restarted apacheJun 09 10:38
oiaohmHmm it appears to be working now.Jun 09 10:45
schestowitzThey got boredJun 09 10:51
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MinceRcouldn't we please get rid of IdiotFC?Jun 09 13:25
schestowitzJust don't feed himJun 09 13:35
MinceRi don't have my soft ignore script yet :/Jun 09 13:39
MinceRthough i guess i'd still have to look for ad hominemsJun 09 13:39
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oiaohmMe ended up AFK Australia and usa using two different set of digital devices.  AUS is using DVB-T lot of them don't need firmware.Jun 09 14:32
oiaohmFC is very much USA centric.Jun 09 14:32
schestowitzOh YEAHJun 09 14:54
schestowitzCentral USJun 09 14:54
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trmancoohJun 09 21:33
trmancothis actually existsJun 09 21:33
trmancohehJun 09 21:33
schestowitzYeahJun 09 21:43
schestowitzUsually for talks about things we keep quiet aboutJun 09 21:43
schestowitzLike DDOS attacks or troblemakers like daemonfcJun 09 21:43
trmancothe main channel looks like a zooJun 09 23:18
schestowitzI knowJun 09 23:32
schestowitzThey trey to ruin itJun 09 23:32
schestowitzSuggestions?Jun 09 23:32
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 9 23:33:38 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 9 23:33:38 2009
fewakick him for saying someone should get bannedJun 09 23:38
fewathats a clear indiscretionJun 09 23:38
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schestowitz<clsmith> schestowitz: I don't get why the [sic] is there.Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<bjwebb> lolJun 10 18:49
schestowitz<bjwebb> clsmith: because its not really a foundation?Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz* bjwebb shrugsJun 10 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> NoJun 10 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> kernel :-)Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<clsmith> schestowitz: But in the link they write "Linux Foundation"...?Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<bjwebb> kernel[sic] foundationJun 10 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> not GNUJun 10 18:49
schestowitz<clsmith> Huh.Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz* clsmith shrugs.Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> LF is not a representation of the whole system. Zemlin: "respect Microsoft" (2007)Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<clsmith> schestowitz: Well, neither is the whole system called Linux.Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<clsmith> ;)Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<clsmith> Anyway, got to go eat.Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<clsmith> Bye all.Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> :-)Jun 10 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> I kid.Jun 10 18:49
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schestowitzDDOS again..Jun 11 11:02
schestowitzI think.Jun 11 11:02
schestowitzAttacker went awayJun 11 11:07
oiaohmThere will be normal pulses from places like google.Jun 11 11:09
oiaohmSo server will never be 100 percent presure less.Jun 11 11:09
schestowitzYes, I know, but the patter was familiarJun 11 11:29
schestowitzAnd we had a DDOS yesterdayJun 11 11:29
schestowitzOr the day before that, confirmed by the adminJun 11 11:29
schestowitzIRC log for the 9th was 1.3 MB !!Jun 11 11:30
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MinceRnolikeyme is the same user againJun 11 19:56
MinceRyour banmasks are ineffectiveJun 11 19:56
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schestowitzI think Bruce Perens closed his site down after similar weird people took over itJun 11 21:05
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*Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).Jun 11 23:51
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 23:51:41 2009
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 23:52:19 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 11 23:52
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 11 23:52
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 11 23:52
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 12 01:04:37 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 12 01:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 12 01:04
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 12 01:04
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 12 01:33:10 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 12 01:33
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 12 01:33
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 12 01:33
*#boycottnovell-social :[freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: 12 01:33
schestowitzDid I miss anything in this channel?Jun 12 01:46
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MinceRnopeJun 12 07:15
MinceRoiaohm: how usable are ati's drivers nowadays? i'm looking for a new laptop.Jun 12 07:17
schestowitzTHanks, MinceR Jun 12 08:23
schestowitzMaybe I'll have a better run this time... 3.5 months... until Sept.Jun 12 08:23
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schestowitzHeh.Jun 12 15:50
schestowitz""On that note, I'll also comment on the latest BN troll wars.  It's rather amusing that they accuse you of a broad range of misbehaviours including libel, insulting the work of others and declaring someone guilty before it's proven.  I accuse them of hypocrisy -- doing exactly to you what they accuse you of doing to others. "Jun 12 15:50
schestowitz"They are rather inarticulate, have trouble supporting their arguments with evidence and have a propensity to take cheap shots.  When they talk about Mono, an old saying from the Microsoft v. US DOJ case comes to mind: "It's [Windows is] an operating system, not a religion." (Ted Waite, then CEO of Gateway.)  Or perhaps I should paraphrase Steve Ballmer: "Evangelists, evangelists, evangelists, evangelists, evangelists ..." :Jun 12 15:51
schestowitz/"Jun 12 15:51
schestowitz"Keep up the good work.  I continue to read BN because it is a good example of providing a much needed balance to mainstream media coverage."Jun 12 15:51
MinceR:)Jun 12 15:56
oiaohmMinceR: ATI not there yet.   End year I was predicting ok.Jun 12 15:56
MinceRthanks.Jun 12 15:56
MinceRthat's what i was afraid of -- lenovo's nvidia offering is very small.Jun 12 15:57
oiaohmWhen ATI works it will be better than Nvidia for a while.Jun 12 15:57
oiaohmThat is the problem we are in a half way point.Jun 12 15:57
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trmancois this logged?Jun 12 17:46
schestowitz<anon> wellJun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> it's no secret anymoreJun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> war has begun :-)Jun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> 12 17:47
schestowitz<schestowitz> thanksJun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> so what do you think?Jun 12 17:47
schestowitz<schestowitz> post coming soon.Jun 12 17:47
schestowitz<schestowitz>  More here: 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> yeah, read that.  really nastyJun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> Jo keeps triing to harm your reputation in every way he canJun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> other mono folk do the same.  looks like the "standard procedure"Jun 12 17:47
schestowitz<anon> what do you think on the debian situation?Jun 12 17:47
schestowitztrmanco: never been logged since it startedJun 12 17:47
trmancothan the title if misleadingJun 12 17:47
trmancoCommunication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 12 17:48
schestowitzACKJun 12 18:07
trmancothe topic on this channel was the one that was misleading, because it's not logged and the title says otherwiseJun 12 18:11
schestowitzYeah.Jun 12 18:18
schestowitzBut maybe it'll be logged one dayJun 12 18:19
schestowitzIt started as an OT channelJun 12 18:19
schestowitzWhen DDOS started we used it to hide from lurking attackersJun 12 18:19
trmancooh, I seeJun 12 18:20
schestowitzanon> hey thereJun 12 18:43
schestowitz<anon> does jo work for oxfordJun 12 18:43
schestowitz<anon> seems he doesJun 12 18:43
schestowitz<anon> was always curious what jo looks like..dunno way but oh well I found out <not that it matter, just my curiosity>: < we already knew what you looked like and me..its nice toput the picture to the constant barage of text ;)))Jun 12 18:43
schestowitz<anon> anyway-Jun 12 18:43
schestowitz<anon> latreJun 12 18:43
schestowitzHehe.Jun 12 18:43
trmancololJun 12 18:44
schestowitzReviving American chestnuts may mitigate climate change < >Jun 12 18:46
schestowitztrmanco: usually he's visualised of a chicken or a monkeyJun 12 18:47
trmancochestnuts?Jun 12 18:51
schestowitzAye!Jun 12 18:52
schestowitzActually sounds like some people calling me "nuts"Jun 12 18:52
trmancololJun 12 18:57
*trmanco Hello, my name is Nuts... Chest Nuts :-PJun 12 18:57
schestowitzJunior.Jun 12 19:05
trmanco:)Jun 12 19:07
schestowitzThe Fink arsegole is causing troubleJun 12 19:37
schestowitzHe's harrassing peopleJun 12 19:37
schestowitzAnd gives me trouble tooJun 12 19:37
schestowitzBecause he tries to associated himself with me...Jun 12 19:38
schestowitz"Do you want me to humiliate him?Jun 12 19:38
schestowitzThe fact that he raises issues with Mono is one thing. The fact that heJun 12 19:38
schestowitzresorted to dirty behaviour is another. I don't condone the behaviour,Jun 12 19:38
schestowitzbut if people link to us, am I supposed to mock them?"Jun 12 19:38
schestowitz"Wait a second. What IRC?Jun 12 19:38
schestowitzWhat is this about?Jun 12 19:38
schestowitzI never spoke to "Fink" until I mailed him yesterday. I didn't feelJun 12 19:38
schestowitzcomfortable just outright attacking him for linking to us and the wholeJun 12 19:38
schestowitzthing that happened had NOTHING to do with me. None of this is to doJun 12 19:38
schestowitzwith me. David asked me to step in, which I did."Jun 12 19:38
schestowitzDid we ever have a Fink in IRC?Jun 12 19:38
schestowitzDid he comment in BN?Jun 12 19:38
trmancoirc, not that I remember ofJun 12 19:40
schestowitzThis is turning to a messJun 12 19:45
schestowitz"That guy is nuts.Jun 12 19:45
schestowitzI never spoke to him until yesterday and I couldn't just curse to his face for linking to my writings and saying good things about me. Try to look at it from my position.  How would you have approached him?"Jun 12 19:45
schestowitzThat guy David apparently wants to sue FinkJun 12 19:45
schestowitzMind you, I never came into thisJun 12 19:46
schestowitzit's David who came into BNJun 12 19:46
schestowitzhe asked me to sort things outJun 12 19:46
trmancoDavid... David S...?Jun 12 19:46
schestowitzWith someone whom I never spoke toJun 12 19:46
trmancodon't know the restJun 12 19:46
schestowitzYeah.Jun 12 19:46
schestowitzAnd that nutter FinkJun 12 19:46
trmancoif you follow the ubuntu-devel-discuss mono thread you can see what happenedJun 12 19:47
trmanco 12 19:48
trmancoI would read it all if I were youJun 12 19:48
schestowitzI'm not going to step into the threatJun 12 19:48
schestowitzI want nothing to do with itJun 12 19:49
schestowitzAnd coming in may only make it seem like I have some kind of role it itJun 12 19:49
schestowitzF* Fink!Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> Okay, I guess what you're saying OS that the "I like what you're doing"Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> email is indeed authentic.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> Mm-boy, Roy. _Big_ mistake. Expect a lengthy posting to my blog,Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> syndicated to Planet GNOME, detailing all of this.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> Allow me to acquaint your credibility with the latrine, buddy. Bad call,Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz> Roy: you should have taken my initial advice. I was annoyed, but now I'mJun 12 20:13
schestowitz> angry. You won't like me when I'm angry, I promise you.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz"What you do" = Mono criticism.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz"What you do" != acting like a lunatic and attacking people.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitzI am disgusted by people who smear via employers, having had people try to do this to me. Bear in mind that attacking someone in my first message to him ever is hard. I don't know who Fink is and if I attacked him, he'd potentially attack /me/ in public. Look how he's attacking everyone.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitzSo again:Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz"What you do" = Mono criticism.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz"What you do" != acting like a lunatic and attacking people.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitzDon't misinterpret this and think about the context.Jun 12 20:13
schestowitzThe very fact that he forwarded that message just shows what a person he is. Had I said something bad to him, why would he not insult me in public?Jun 12 20:13
schestowitz===Jun 12 20:14
schestowitzThat idiot is continuing to do damage to everyone around himJun 12 20:14
schestowitzI'll do a post maybeJun 12 20:17
trmancowho wrote that?Jun 12 20:23
schestowitzwait, see this..Jun 12 20:31
schestowitz>> I'm sorry david this got so bad, but Roy put me up to this and I dontJun 12 20:32
schestowitz>> want any more trouble. see attached for proof. I would post theJun 12 20:32
schestowitz>> private irc logs if I had them. plz dont sue me, I didnt want thisJun 12 20:32
schestowitz>> much trouble. also know I didnt report you to your boss. that was notJun 12 20:32
schestowitz>> me!Jun 12 20:32
schestowitzWait a second........ "PUT ME UP TO THIS"?Jun 12 20:32
schestowitzHe's lying to you. I never spoke to him. Is he pretending that I was in touch with him or something?Jun 12 20:32
schestowitzThat's a LIE. I didn't notice this at first glance.Jun 12 20:32
schestowitz=====Jun 12 20:32
schestowitzSo that Fink bastard got in trouble and he pretends that it was meJun 12 20:32
trmanco...Jun 12 20:36
trmancowhen I first showed you the thread, I thought a good discussion would come from there, but I was wrongJun 12 20:37
schestowitz>> I'm sorry david this got so bad, but Roy put me up to this and I dontJun 12 20:37
schestowitz>> want any more trouble. see attached for proof. I would post theJun 12 20:37
schestowitz>> private irc logs if I had them. plz dont sue me, I didnt want thisJun 12 20:37
schestowitz>> much trouble. also know I didnt report you to your boss. that was notJun 12 20:37
schestowitz>> me!Jun 12 20:37
schestowitzMark,Jun 12 20:37
schestowitzWhat the HECK are you talking about???Jun 12 20:37
schestowitzI never spoke to you before. I only now notice your message (quote). All you're doing is just incite people against me and the site by lying. Are you purposely doing this? Jun 12 20:37
schestowitzAt first I thought you were raising issues with Mono, but now you throw crap everywhere -- David and me included -- in order to flame and put everyone at risk.Jun 12 20:37
schestowitzShame on you.Jun 12 20:37
schestowitztrmanco: noJun 12 20:37
schestowitzHe tries to get the man fired or somethingJun 12 20:37
schestowitzThat's why David came to speak to meJun 12 20:38
schestowitzDamn, this is infuriatingJun 12 20:38
schestowitzHe did this last year as wellJun 12 20:38
schestowitzAs Mark S replied to himJun 12 20:38
schestowitzHe's inciting against usJun 12 20:38
schestowitzAnd I can't help wondering if it's a shillJun 12 20:38
trmancoI saw that too, but I let it go, it had nothing to do with my interest when those personal attacks came in on DavidJun 12 20:39
trmancointerestsJun 12 20:39
trmancoyesterday or so I asked if you knew mark f and you said no, and that he already had caused problemsJun 12 20:42
schestowitzI saw his name last year in the mailing listJun 12 20:44
schestowitzWhen the codec thing came upJun 12 20:44
schestowitz==Jun 12 21:52
schestowitzWay too little. Way too late. Read all about it on Planet GNOME and make your excuses there.Jun 12 21:52
schestowitzI'm done listening to this. You strike me as a duplicitous person who I beleve has lied to my face. I'm not a very good person to be doing that to, as you'll be discovering.Jun 12 21:52
schestowitz===Jun 12 21:52
schestowitzFink prepJun 12 21:52
schestowitz*perpJun 12 21:52
schestowitzMaybe it's time to start getting rid of trollsJun 12 21:52
schestowitzI never lied.Jun 12 21:52
schestowitzLasttest comment in BN: "nigger" 12 21:53
schestowitzMust be the trolls trying a new strategy. DDOS, IRC cr*pflood, now this..Jun 12 21:53
schestowitz==Jun 12 22:00
schestowitz> Way too little. _Way_ too late.Jun 12 22:00
schestowitzHow is it too late? Don't you see what he's doing here. He's trying to piss on Ubuntu and when he gets in trouble he lies about it and attributes this to me. I've just done a search for "Fink" on the site  and I see he left a few comments in the past. I never spoke to this guy until last night.Jun 12 22:00
schestowitz==Jun 12 22:00
schestowitzWhat a total waste of timeJun 12 22:01
schestowitzFrankly, I'm almost getting fed upJun 12 22:11
schestowitzDDOS was the worst though, by far the most emotionally exhausting :-SJun 12 22:11
MinceR 12 23:09
schestowitzLOLJun 12 23:14
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schestowitzSomeone has been looking to find out what the Fink troll is about...Jun 13 14:20
schestowitz==Jun 13 14:20
schestowitzInteresting. I didn't realize that there were also mailing lists forJun 13 14:20
schestowitzUbuntu.  Oh well.  Regarding MPFink, I see he's been posting weird stuffJun 13 14:20
schestowitzsince at least Feb 2008.  Google doesn't really let people (or at leastJun 13 14:20
schestowitznot me) search for email addresses, so it's hard to find more.  However,Jun 13 14:20
schestowitz his trolling does have a benefit of identifying the Mono guard.  SomeJun 13 14:20
schestowitzof the replies are not any better than his rants and a few are worse.Jun 13 14:20
schestowitz===Jun 13 14:20
MinceR 13 14:51
schestowitzGod loves violence, according to the Holy BookJun 13 14:54
schestowitzThink about sacrifice tooJun 13 14:54
trmancowhat does LGTM mean?Jun 13 15:10
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trmancothat ain't twitter right?Jun 13 19:57
schestowitztrmanco: be carefulJun 13 20:05
trmancowhy?Jun 13 20:06
schestowitzIt's him, I can see nowJun 13 20:25
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trmancothen why sin't he with his original nickname?Jun 13 20:49
trmancoisn'tJun 13 20:49
schestowitzDon't knowJun 13 21:02
schestowitzBut it's himJun 13 21:02
schestowitzfalse alert about Mono...Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> hehJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> I wasnt sureo you had ever seen itJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> :)Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> OMG you cant believe this!!Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> I removed firefox beta from fedora 11 rightJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> now I want to add it to test a few thingsJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> guess what it NEEDS as dependenciesJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> gtk-sharp2,,amoung several other sharp packagesJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> OMFGoshJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> o_0Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> I hope your seeing thisJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> I find it shockingJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> and I gotta figure the dependency is not coming from upstream Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> but anywayJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<schestowitz> yeah, i'll post about itJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> kk thxJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<schestowitz> kkkJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> lolJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> sorry I dont know where I got into the  habit of doing that :)Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> k ? :)<har->Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> CRAPJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> OMG crapJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<schestowitz> in #bnJun 13 21:33
schestowitz* [neighborlee] is away (bbs)Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> dont post about firefox..apparantly I was in hurry or something..clicked wrong packageJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<schestowitz> PhewJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<schestowitz> :-)Jun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> I guess I clicked 'b eagle' accidentilyJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> NO IDEA why its showing up alongside firefox..I seached for firefox..not beagleJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> ODDJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> but anywayJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> PHEW yesJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> big phewJun 13 21:33
schestowitz<neighborlee> sorry  ^^^Jun 13 21:33
trmancololJun 13 21:36
schestowitzI was gonna write about itJun 13 21:41
trmanco 13 21:43
trmancothis guy is making an idiot of himselfJun 13 21:43
trmancoout of*Jun 13 21:43
schestowitzYesJun 13 21:57
schestowitz===Jun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> so better not to try then, I guessJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> btw I found two posts from Jo where he "clarifies" his accusations:Jun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> just in case you wanted to knowJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> (following his links reveals that his interpretation is completely distorted, but who cares about truth..)Jun 13 21:57
schestowitz<schestowitz> not meJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<schestowitz> anonymousJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> I knowJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<schestowitz> We NEVER____ delete comments. never.Jun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> I know thatJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> here's Joss making a clown of himself: 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> hey, at least he got sense of humourJun 13 21:57
schestowitz<nyu> too bad for him, he's uncapable of addressing any of the issues I raised, and people noticeJun 13 21:57
schestowitz===Jun 13 21:57
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schestowitzHeh.Jun 14 20:27
schestowitz> ot: why do you post your IRC logs, do you want to look stupid, do youJun 14 20:27
schestowitz> not have any common sense. Do you not realize you are making yourselfJun 14 20:27
schestowitz> an easy target. You are not doing the cause any good .. !!!!Jun 14 20:27
schestowitzPJ has comments. BN has comments. There is no censorship there either, so if one wants to dig up dirt -- as some of them do -- they can find it in comments, even if they arrive from others (potentially trolls).Jun 14 20:27
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schestowitzHey, oiaohm Jun 15 10:01
oiaohmHi schestowitzJun 15 10:02
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trmanco<nyu> hub: there's a race?Jun 15 18:20
trmanco<mether> with no way to set the priority manuallyJun 15 18:20
trmanco<mether> nyu, yesJun 15 18:20
trmanco<nyu> awfulJun 15 18:20
trmanco<hub> nyu: in that case somewhat :-)Jun 15 18:20
trmanco<nyu> hub: so there's a race with tomboy too?Jun 15 18:20
trmanco<mether> nyu, no. because t comes laterJun 15 18:20
trmanco<hub> nyu: yeah but it starts later, likelyJun 15 18:20
trmanco<hub> and loading mono take some timeJun 15 18:20
trmanco<nyu> ah, so tomboy works because mono is doggy slowJun 15 18:20
trmanco<nyu> *g*Jun 15 18:20
trmanco<hub> because the startup order and time differsJun 15 18:20
trmanco<hub> I'll just use that wordingJun 15 18:20
trmanco<nyu> hub: we need to call sleep() at startupJun 15 18:20
trmanco<hub> nyu: noJun 15 18:20
trmanco<nyu> :-)Jun 15 18:20
trmanco 15 18:21
schestowitzHehe.Jun 15 18:43
schestowitz=======Jun 15 22:37
schestowitz@Anonymous #6:Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzNo, I never spoke to him before (unless he used some other nym). As I explained to David before (David and I exchanged like 10 messages but he only quotes _one_ in isolation to increase drama value), the reason I was not _attacking_ Fink in my (first-ever) message to him is that he's obviously foul-mouthed and aggressive, so I don't want him on my back, too. It's also hard to slam someone who have been saying good things aboJun 15 22:37
schestowitzut you.Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzI think "Fink" is misguided. He doesn't like Mono, but he's doing more harm to the cause than anything else.Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzAs I said before, people must stop thinking that everyone who links to the site has something to do with me. And he lied to David when he got scared, although I don't know the full story there.Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzNot everyone who links to Groklaw is 'pals' with PJ (even those who claim they are) and people who hang out in Slashdot are not necessarily buddies of Rob Malda.Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzThis is a mountain made out of not even a molehill. I've nothing to do with it and I've hated it from the start (as you'll find in IRC logs). It's damaging to everyone.Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzDavid looks for someone to blame. It's a shame that he picks me as a scapegoat. And if he wants to believe this, then he'll piece together some things that seemingly /fit/ the hypothesis and present them separately, without broader context.Jun 15 22:37
schestowitz===Jun 15 22:37
schestowitzThis is such a time waster.Jun 15 22:38
schestowitzSee what I need to cope witjh?Jun 15 22:38
schestowitzSome f*ing trolls use our name and now they hold ME (!!) accountablweJun 15 22:38
trmanco:|Jun 15 22:48
trmancostupid anonymous commentsJun 15 22:52
trmanco...Jun 15 22:53
schestowitzCould be NovellersJun 15 23:00
schestowitzOr the shills like OBrianJun 15 23:00
trmanconobody can keep the exact track to who they reply to unless unless that person is always in contactJun 15 23:10
trmancoI speak for myself, I rarely remember the names of who write news posts, unless I keep constant contact with that personJun 15 23:11
schestowitzYesJun 15 23:21
schestowitzDavid knows he's wrongJun 15 23:22
schestowitzhe's hiding our correspondenceJun 15 23:22
schestowitzBut he wrote that post on FridayJun 15 23:22
schestowitzAnd then he says, "too late"Jun 15 23:22
schestowitzNever mind if I show him it's just some perp I have nothing to do withJun 15 23:22
trmancothere is also no date on that emailJun 15 23:24
trmancoyou sig seems outdated no?Jun 15 23:24
trmancoyou should stop feeding that zooJun 15 23:28
trmancoit«s not worth itJun 15 23:28
schestowitzOKJun 15 23:33
trmancothat's just my opinion, you are free to do what you want, obviously :-PJun 15 23:34
schestowitzI'm done with itJun 15 23:42
schestowitzit's like when some kid kills a classmate and then people blame the band the kid listened toJun 15 23:42
trmancoit won't end for them just like that, I'm sureJun 15 23:42
schestowitzWaste of timeJun 15 23:43
schestowitzI won't botherJun 15 23:43
schestowitzIt only feed the "anonymous"Jun 15 23:43
schestowitzMaybe NovellersJun 15 23:43
schestowitzNo-one knowsJun 15 23:43
trmancoI don't know what the point is hiding behind an anonymous tag... cowards, at least some nickname would have pleased meJun 15 23:43
schestowitz"anonymous coward" /. calls itJun 15 23:44
schestowitzGood for SCOersJun 15 23:44
schestowitzAnd PR peopleJun 15 23:44
trmancohehJun 15 23:44
trmancoto bad ip's aren't shownJun 15 23:44
trmancobut they usually mean nothingJun 15 23:45
schestowitzDNS hardly handles IPsJun 15 23:51
schestowitzI had to manually decipher some of thoseJun 15 23:51
schestowitzBuh!! Stupid forgers./Jun 16 00:21
schestowitz==Jun 16 01:03
schestowitzHello:Jun 16 01:03
schestowitzI was the "anonymous" commenter who was trying to provide some balance and another point of view to the others in Herr Schlesinger's blog posting on the "Mark Fink" Ubuntu forums episode.  Of course, I am not convinced that you did condone Mark Fink, only that you didn't pay enough attention to him.Jun 16 01:03
schestowitzTo me, he seems to be quite obviously a provocateur.  If this episode proves to be too much a problem, then it might be worthy to consider posting the entire private correspondence between you and Herr Schlesinger.  Then again, it might be worthy to consider ignoring it. :)Jun 16 01:03
schestowitz"Mark Fink"?  Sheesh, so obvious.  "Provocateur" and "informer" are even in his "name".Jun 16 01:03
schestowitzIt has been a lie and s distraction. Fink" is poison.Jun 16 01:04
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 16 09:18:06 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 16 09:18
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 16 09:18
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 16 09:18
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 16 09:36:47 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 16 09:36
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 16 09:36
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 16 09:36
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MinceR 16 13:16
*schestowitz looksJun 16 13:18
schestowitzIt don't do s*, man!Jun 16 13:20
schestowitzAnd I enbled me[sic] JSJun 16 13:20
schestowitzJS fishJun 16 13:20
MinceRit's defiant :>Jun 16 13:20
schestowitz===Jun 16 14:13
schestowitzI don't know how to read the situation there as they (the West African students) tended to play their cards very close to their chest. However, it puts this oversight into context:Jun 16 14:13
schestowitz 16 14:13
schestowitzI'm not sure how a language would disappear from a cut-and-paste of ISO-639 list.  Some from Ghana where real true-blue MSFTers, though it was hard to pick up on it at first since they were so secretive about it.  Others seemed genuinely interested in learning.  The latter are who I focused on, but I believe the former played a role in the problems at[ANON] - there appears to be now a witch hunt against FOSS to replace it wiJun 16 14:13
schestowitzth MS version of FOSS e.g. #C for .NET on MS Windows but using *eclipse* that's open sourceJun 16 14:13
schestowitz===Jun 16 14:13
schestowitzLeakes.Jun 16 14:13
schestowitz*kedJun 16 14:13
schestowitz 16 14:19
MinceRa good patent covenant looks like a patent license? :>Jun 16 14:19
oiaohmThe idea that there is nothing patent safe boy some of these guys are idiots.Jun 16 14:22
oiaohmIts all in the licencing of the patents.Jun 16 14:22
schestowitzHehe.Jun 16 14:40
schestowitz===Jun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> as usual, someone is probably pasting some quotes to some other chanJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> probably benJImanJun 16 14:40
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schestowitz<anon> i said pasting to some other chan 'cause it is more probable than pvting to someoneJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> either thatJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> or read the blog post you madeJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> hadn't noticed i was thereJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> so disregard all this text :pJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<schestowitz> benjiman yeahJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<schestowitz> SpyJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> SOMEONE_WHO_IS_NOT_ON_THE_CHAN read the blogpost after allJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> probably the link is circlating on novell related  chans, probablyJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> hum nopeJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> he subscribes you :pJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> says he only likes your blog posts on SaturdaysJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> xDJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> good marketing strategy I supposeJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> subscribe me onceJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> they subscribe you to read the saturday's postsJun 16 14:40
schestowitz<anon> and they'll at least look quickly through all posts :pJun 16 14:40
schestowitz===Jun 16 14:40
schestowitz===Jun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> wtf, slashdot now: 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> YeahJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> Debian is Not Including Mono by Default, Yet < >Jun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> it's not under discussionJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> Steve said (in that article, but also in other places): "In this case (as in so many in Debian), it's up to the people working in the area in question"Jun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> OKJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> Sam said in the article: "There was no discussion about the matter on any of the Debian mailing lists when I last looked at around 4am AEST today"Jun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> they can change mindsJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> yesJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> it's not finalJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> moulette flood #bn ATMJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> *floodsJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> but almostJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> really?Jun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> we try to convence himJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> like 500 lines so farJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> *convinceJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> what an asshole.  I bet he's trying to collect quotes for his blogJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<anon> don't waste your time on him, it's impossibleJun 16 14:42
schestowitz<schestowitz> OKJun 16 14:42
schestowitz===Jun 16 14:42
schestowitzAsus apologies for Linux notebook Jun 16 14:46
schestowitz"'Moments after sharing a news conference stage with Intel executiveJun 16 14:46
schestowitzvice president Sean Maloney and Microsoft corporate vice president,Jun 16 14:46
schestowitzOEM Division, Steven Guggenheimer, the chairman of Asustek, JonneyJun 16 14:46
schestowitzShih, demurred when asked about the Android Eee PC'Jun 16 14:46
schestowitz"Frankly speaking, the first question, I would like to apologize that,Jun 16 14:46
schestowitzif you look at Asus booth we've decided not to display this product,"Jun 16 14:46
schestowitzhe said.Jun 16 14:46
schestowitz"I think you may have seen the devices on Qualcomm's booth butJun 16 14:46
schestowitzactually, I think this is a company decision so far we would not likeJun 16 14:46
schestowitzto show this device. That's what I can tell you so far. I would likeJun 16 14:46
schestowitzto apologize for that""Jun 16 14:46
schestowitz 16 14:46
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schestowitz<nixed> I actually managed to have a conversation with Miguel de Icaza.Jun 16 18:49
schestowitz<nixed> He had some very interesting things to say in regards to .NET licensing and Mono.Jun 16 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> Can you share?Jun 16 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> in #bn?Jun 16 18:49
schestowitz<nixed> Do I use pastebin?Jun 16 18:49
schestowitz<nixed> To make it easier?Jun 16 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> YesJun 16 18:49
schestowitz<schestowitz> thanksJun 16 18:49
schestowitz<neighborlee> I got email from alo from gnome ML..Iwont share it unless he says ok..I was curious so I emailed him and yes he remains concerned over the whole messJun 16 18:51
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schestowitzWe have helpers now.Jun 17 12:16
schestowitz"There's OCR on the two PDFs here (IIRC), but we need the full text to make an article. You may also want to add comments for me to embed (with attribution to "wallclimber")."Jun 17 12:16
oiaohmLet the growth begin.Jun 17 12:29
schestowitzDo me a favour and proofread with me.Jun 17 12:51
oiaohmMe proofread not a good idea schestowitzJun 17 12:53
oiaohmI am a heavy dyslexia person I really depend on the spell checker to pick up problems.Jun 17 12:54
schestowitzHave a look anyway. Just read it: 17 12:57
schestowitzSee if something funny comes upJun 17 12:57
oiaohmThey need to improve there word wrap support but nothing stands out as wrong.Jun 17 13:01
oiaohmBut that feels stranglely the same with mono schestowitzJun 17 13:01
schestowitzMono? How so?Jun 17 13:05
schestowitzBTW, file wrapping is an issue I know aboutJun 17 13:05
schestowitzit's better not to have line breaks in the text because it's then easier toread.Jun 17 13:13
schestowitzThis one should be fun too (TODO): 17 13:13
oiaohmMono cannot run all .net applications.Jun 17 13:24
oiaohmDue to native .net applicatons able to do native calls.Jun 17 13:25
oiaohmSo mono has to run in wine so support some applications.Jun 17 13:25
oiaohmNice way to create something you can demo as failing on Linux really.Jun 17 13:25
MinceR(flash) (video) (audio) 17 13:42
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MinceRso why do we keep Daemon* around? :>Jun 17 18:13
schestowitzSome people like himJun 17 18:13
schestowitzoiaohm and _hitcham_Jun 17 18:13
MinceRhow many? can't they just make a channel, something like #boycottnovell-trollzoo?Jun 17 18:15
schestowitzHeh.Jun 17 18:17
schestowitz"Tom Bell will support the business lobby group's "biggest marketing/lobbying campaign to 'support free enterprise,' which the powerful business group believes is under attack by the Obama Administration."" 17 18:21
MinceR222144 < _Hicham_> where is that DaemonMDV?Jun 17 21:14
MinceR222152 < _Hicham_> where r u?Jun 17 21:14
MinceR222156 < _Hicham_> show up!Jun 17 21:14
*MinceR facepalmsJun 17 21:14
schestowitzYeah!Jun 17 21:18
schestowitzI'd hate to ban ryan when his fans don't watch -)Jun 17 21:19
schestowitz"David "Lefty" Schlesinger earns the title of "Dafty". I was hoping toJun 18 00:22
schestowitzreason with Dafty, but then I saw it was a lost cause when he decidedJun 18 00:22
schestowitzto forget about "Mark Fink" because it could very well be true thatJun 18 00:22
schestowitz"Mark" was merely a "fink" in the American definition of the word andJun 18 00:22
schestowitzthat Dafty got played for a fool.  He was simply looking for materialJun 18 00:22
schestowitzto confirm his prejudice and wasn't interested in hearing anythingJun 18 00:22
schestowitzelse.  Too bad.  I was hoping that he had more integrity than that,Jun 18 00:22
schestowitzbut I was wrong."Jun 18 00:22
schestowitz"Is it also true that Dafty is a Mono advocate and he was one of theJun 18 00:23
schestowitzones responsible for censoring reasonable (i.e. non "Fink") dissent inJun 18 00:23
schestowitzthe Ubuntu forums?  That would certainly explain his latestJun 18 00:23
schestowitzperformance on BN.  Also, if so and if you were like him, then youJun 18 00:23
schestowitzcould simply censor his comments, eliminate the problem and heJun 18 00:23
schestowitzcouldn't complain about it.  I suspect he would complain anyway. :/"Jun 18 00:23
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schestowitz> Hi Roy, Once again I had help doing this one.  I was tied up with workJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> today, so I was grateful for my friend offering to help out.  He didn'tJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> ask for attribution, but I think he'd enjoy getting it.  So, pleaseJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> attribute the main typing to RCH.  I did a quick read-through, butJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> another proofread will be needed (I know you always do :)  HopefullyJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> there won't be too many typos. Jun 18 07:27
schestowitzThank you,  thank you, thank you.Jun 18 07:27
schestowitz Jun 18 07:27
schestowitz> Also curious, has the big PDF outlining Microsoft's "Evangelism" tacticsJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> been turned to text yet?Jun 18 07:27
schestowitzYes, I sent some to PJ and she did it, so it's now indexed by Google.Jun 18 07:27
schestowitz Jun 18 07:27
schestowitz> Also, I read your emails regarding the troll from Seattle.  I try toJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> catch up on the BN IRC logs at the end of the day every day, so I'mJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> familiar with the goons that disrupt your conversations.  Sometimes itJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> reminds me of team tag, one quits and another one joins in...when theyJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> don't just gang up at once.  Sad, really.  It just looks to me likeJun 18 07:27
schestowitz> desperation, with a side order of meanness.  They are an ugly bunch. Jun 18 07:27
schestowitz> I'm sorry you've had to deal with them so often. Jun 18 07:27
schestowitzSomeone tells me it's a good sign that we are interruption-worthy. We get about 7,000 unique visitors per day now.Jun 18 07:27
oiaohmGot to do vpn homework.Jun 18 08:21
schestowitzHomework?Jun 18 08:23
schestowitzOr home work? :-)Jun 18 08:23
oiaohmDesign network for work.Jun 18 08:39
MinceR112556 <+Mocman> -One day Chuck Norris looked in the mirror and said "No one outstares Chuck!" He is still there to this dayJun 18 10:21
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schestowitzre: Mono: "There's more to come later this month. Stay tuned."Jun 18 17:14
schestowitz========Jun 18 20:46
schestowitzget rid of FirefoxJun 18 20:46
schestowitzWe've buried $10,000 somewherre on the Internet and if you're theJun 18 20:46
schestowitzfirst one to find it, you get to keep it.Jun 18 20:46
schestowitzBut you'll never find it using old Firefox. (So get rid of it or get lost.)Jun 18 20:46
schestowitz..Jun 18 20:46
schestowitzHow will you know if you've found it? It's a cleverly concealedJun 18 20:46
schestowitzwebpage that only Internet Explorer 8 can view.Jun 18 20:46
schestowitz 18 20:46
schestowitz======Jun 18 20:46
schestowitzWhat a nice companyJun 18 20:46
trmancothey also tell you to ditch standardsJun 18 21:05
trmancothat was one of the cluesJun 18 21:05
schestowitzYeah. Well...Jun 18 21:20
schestowitzWe have Astruturfers todayJun 18 21:21
schestowitz <- Windows users pretending to be Linux usersJun 18 21:21
schestowitzDefending MS crimesJun 18 21:21
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MinceR_Mutex_ should be shown to people in a cageJun 19 12:11
schestowitzHe's fedJun 19 12:16
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MinceRsometimes i make the mistake of talking to the resident idiotsJun 19 13:42
MinceRand every single time i regret itJun 19 13:42
schestowitzYeah, you feed ryanJun 19 13:45
MinceRand you refrain from kickbanning himJun 19 13:46
MinceRi'm not the one feeding _Mutex_ thoughJun 19 13:48
schestowitzIt would be used to discredit usJun 19 13:49
MinceRwhy do we listen to the opinions of people who are obviously full of shit and don't listen?Jun 19 13:49
MinceRthey'll think the same regardlessJun 19 13:49
schestowitzHere's my ideaJun 19 13:54
schestowitzIf you ignore them -- which would make a difference as few actively participate -- then they'll get bored and leaveJun 19 13:54
schestowitzIt's when people give them luv ("hey, daemonfc, where are you????/") that they come back online and into #bnJun 19 13:55
schestowitzWhen they go on a monologue they hate itJun 19 13:55
schestowitze.g.daemonfcJun 19 13:55
schestowitzRambling hyperactivityJun 19 13:55
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schestowitzPeople feed the trollJun 19 16:13
schestowitz*sigh*Jun 19 16:13
schestowitzI give upJun 19 16:13
schestowitzBut I ignore that trollJun 19 16:13
schestowitz=========Jun 19 16:13
schestowitzApache attack vector / Dafty / OS/2 demo criminality Jun 19 16:14
schestowitzSince you seem to be a target of DoS attacks, you may be interested inJun 19 16:14
schestowitzthe following:Jun 19 16:14
schestowitzApache HTTP DoS tool released Jun 19 16:14
schestowitz 19 16:14
schestowitzOh and about "Dafty": Jose_X did a pretty good job of trying to reasonJun 19 16:14
schestowitzwith him along the same lines as my effort.  It ended predictably.  IJun 19 16:14
schestowitzwonder if Dafty's idea was to deliberately troll BN on the theory thatJun 19 16:14
schestowitzhe would get into a really senseless flame war with the regulars andJun 19 16:14
schestowitzhe could thus reproduce his experience with "Mark Fink" and "prove hisJun 19 16:14
schestowitzpoint."  Unfortunately for him, that didn't work out too well.Jun 19 16:14
schestowitzAlso, I agree with your characterisation of Microsoft's actions as aJun 19 16:14
schestowitzwhole as "criminal" even if, taken in isolation, the single act ofJun 19 16:14
schestowitzcooking up a way to crash OS/2 and show it widely is arguably notJun 19 16:14
schestowitzcriminal.  The intent of the demonstration matters and, in the OS/2Jun 19 16:14
schestowitzcase, Microsoft's intent was to deceive.  If not criminal, it is atJun 19 16:14
schestowitzthe very least hypocritical (i.e. my reaction is that it was alsoJun 19 16:14
schestowitztrivially easy to crash Windows 3.x and no specially coded app wasJun 19 16:14
schestowitzeven necessary to accomplish that) and unethical.Jun 19 16:14
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schestowitz<_Hicham_> where is that DaemonXP?Jun 19 20:43
schestowitz<_Hicham_> show up!Jun 19 20:43
schestowitz<_Hicham_> where r u hiding?Jun 19 20:43
schestowitz*sigh*Jun 19 20:43
trmancowhat is so special about him?Jun 19 21:30
schestowitzNothing.Jun 19 21:55
schestowitzFlood with junk messagesJun 19 21:56
schestowitzTo bore people, diluteJun 19 21:56
trmancoI seeJun 19 22:45
MinceRschestowitz: above a given volume of people, there will _always_ be someone to feed the troll.Jun 20 00:13
MinceRespecially if more trolls appear and they start resonating.Jun 20 00:14
schestowitzThe next kick (3rd) is a kickbanJun 20 00:14
schestowitzHe'll trigger itJun 20 00:14
*MinceR awaits eagerlyJun 20 00:15
schestowitzSecond Turfer is inJun 20 00:39
schestowitz*sigh*Jun 20 00:39
schestowitzI'll just ignoreJun 20 00:39
schestowitzI need to rebuilt my kernel for this WebcamJun 20 00:41
schestowitzI think new distros support it out of the boxJun 20 00:41
schestowitzI love this picture... 20 00:42
MinceRand that's how #boycottnovell will turn into ##microsoft.Jun 20 00:46
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 20 01:05:51 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 20 01:05
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 20 01:05
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 20 01:05
*#boycottnovell-social :[freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: 20 01:06
schestowitzMission accomplishedJun 20 01:37
schestowitzBTW, did I miss anything in this channel while restarting KDE?Jun 20 01:37
MinceRnopeJun 20 13:34
schestowitzI resumed wiki work:Jun 20 15:55
schestowitz 20 15:55
schestowitzWe had to change chat provider too, so less mibbit trolls :-)Jun 20 15:55
schestowitz 20 15:55
schestowitzThe linsux brats came from thereJun 20 15:55
schestowitzMaybe _Mutex_ tooJun 20 15:55
MinceRi didn't know mibbit was so badJun 20 15:56
trmancocoolJun 20 15:57
schestowitzInnocent victims:Jun 20 15:57
schestowitz===Jun 20 15:57
schestowitzJust wanted to send a quick update.  The plex_0411 pdf is VERY hard to read, so it's taking some time to do, but we are making progress.Jun 20 15:57
schestowitzAlso, for some reason, I can no longer access BN's IRC.  It all changed yesterday afternoon, since then whenever I try to login it just terminates me (hey, at my age, being terminated makes me very nervous...heh heh :)Jun 20 15:57
schestowitzNo big deal, really, I can just read the logs, but wondered if it was a problem for anyone else, or if it's just me (always the biggest possibility, I know).Jun 20 15:57
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trmancowell, it worksJun 20 15:59
trmanco:)Jun 20 15:59
trmancotrmanco_, pingJun 20 16:00
trmancoit beeps :-PJun 20 16:00
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MinceRthat article lacks information about what the problem with mibbit was.Jun 20 16:02
schestowitzYesJun 20 16:17
schestowitzI reckon they lieJun 20 16:18
schestowitzAnd the new thing solvs nothingJun 20 16:18
schestowitzMaybe they'll monetise with adsJun 20 16:18
schestowitzI can run it off my server as wellJun 20 16:18
schestowitzJust need to install Twister 0.7.8Jun 20 16:18
schestowitz*TwistedJun 20 16:18
schestowitz 20 20:40
schestowitzGood videos these... 20 20:47
schestowitzMeh. 20 21:05
schestowitzThey trolls bog down the channelJun 20 21:22
schestowitzMaybe a mass kickban is in ordeerJun 20 21:22
MinceRindeed it isJun 20 21:23
MinceRschestowitz: "lusers" is _Mutex_Jun 20 21:34
MinceRmincer@stormwind(pts/8) % 3aa5aea4Jun 20 21:34
MinceR58.165.174.164Jun 20 21:34
MinceRso he's ban evading now.Jun 20 21:34
trmanco 20 21:56
schestowitz<i heardJun 20 22:08
trmancowhat makes you think he is a pr agent?Jun 20 23:05
schestowitzPrior thingsJun 20 23:07
trmancohmm, he actually participates on some linux and oss listsJun 20 23:09
trmancoparticipated* so that's why I'm askingJun 20 23:09
schestowitzWhich ones?Jun 20 23:27
trmancoif you search on google for him, you can seeJun 21 11:19
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schestowitz"Some people who email you and post comments are not your friend. They are there to draw you into controversy, like the below. Stick to the facts. Don't engage in personal attacks. Don't engage in dialogue. Don't respond to abuse. Never apologize, never explain ..."Jun 21 18:02
schestowitzMinceR: Look at the audience smiling 21 18:13
schestowitzMS PR person: Microsoft gives up YouTube chase < > That's worse than it sounded initiallyJun 21 18:23
MinceR:)Jun 21 18:58
schestowitzDon't know if you noticed this, but the pro-Mono crowd use false accusations to smear me. It means they cannot attack the message, so they create means to attack messengers. Jun 21 19:25
schestowitzSam keeps up the good work. The more the pro-Mono crowd dislikes him, the better job he does.Jun 21 19:25
schestowitzNew: 21 19:25
trmancohahaJun 21 19:40
trmancoI bet Icaza will be saying bad thing about thatJun 21 19:40
trmanco"Shields makes a claim that Mono is hundreds of times faster than Python - but offers no benchmarks to back up this incredible claim."Jun 21 19:41
trmancolie, since when is mono faster than python...Jun 21 19:41
schestowitzYeahJun 21 19:42
trmancoGwibber which is a bloated microblogging client is faster to start up than the toy named tomboyJun 21 19:42
schestowitzIt's a bad idea to quote bad numbersJun 21 19:42
schestowitzIt'll come back to haunt themJun 21 19:42
schestowitztoyboyJun 21 19:43
trmancololJun 21 19:43
trmanco 21 19:46
schestowitzBut he name is JoJun 21 19:47
schestowitzNot "Mono"Jun 21 19:47
schestowitz*hisJun 21 19:47
trmancoit's his maiden name :-PJun 21 20:03
schestowitzJomoJun 21 20:06
trmancohehehJun 21 20:29
schestowitzThat last one was hard.Jun 21 23:38
schestowitz==Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzBecause this one was so tough to decipher (it could just be my bad eyesight that's the problem, but still...) I hope at least one (or even better two or more) other people read this over.  I worked from a printout, using a magnifying glass, as well as  from the original PDF open on my screen...however, I also took that original PDF into Ado. Illustrator, locked the original image down and scraped the horrible layer of OCR gaJun 21 23:38
schestowitzrbage off of it, then enlarged the original image a bit, so I could reference that image too.  It made it slightly clearer to my old eyes...but I still had to squint and cuss at it a lot.  (who? Me? Cuss?  :o)Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzIn many places where the text in the original image was too hard to read in any of the reference copies, I just guessed at the word, and because the writer's style and phrasing was easy to grasp, I think I got a lot of it right. Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzHowever, I also understand that folks might see how bad the original scan is, and make a big deal out of BN posting a transcript that actually has words where, in the original, there's little more than a black smudge. Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzSo, it really really needs a group of people to proof-read it and make sure that I didn't over-correct the smudgy parts (did that make sense?). Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzAlso, I just realized that I left out the "Confidential" stamps and other ID stuff at the bottoms of the pages.  Sorry, my only excuse is eye and shoulder fatigue, and a slightly melted brain.  (I am going to take a nap now  :o) Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzAnyway, here it is, in all its gruesome glory:  plex_0411_A.PDF as text... Jun 21 23:38
schestowitz(It should certainly cause some interesting reactions when it's posted publically)Jun 21 23:38
schestowitz==Jun 21 23:38
schestowitzBetter one coming..Jun 21 23:38
schestowitz Canonical was hiring Microsoft employees and now they use Canonical to spread .NET in the form of Mono. They are hiring other Mono staff (gnome-do developer).Jun 22 00:16
schestowitz"Also, I was hoping that someone might be able to take a stab at figuring out the last five names listed at the top of the email.  I hate leaving those out of the published text. Jun 22 02:20
schestowitzThe people this email was sent to were likely the same people as other emails were sent to during that time period - the usual suspects, so to speak. Jun 22 02:20
schestowitzSo, after my nap I found another email list on the "px_0860.pdf" and DID match "mikehal" and "paulma" to the 5th and 6th names on plex 0411_A (see below).  I'm also reasonably sure that the last two names are "riscpc" and "steveb". Jun 22 02:20
schestowitzMaybe someone else can find a match for the fourth name "jonchimk" - it could also be "joechizok"?.  Do you, or any of the BN regulars know of any names of Microsoft people that might match/correct that one?  If not, then it probably shouldn't be included at all (just put stars in place of it).Jun 22 02:20
schestowitzAnyway, here's my guess at the names in the email list.Jun 22 02:20
schestowitzbillgJun 22 02:20
schestowitzbradsiJun 22 02:20
schestowitzjeremybuJun 22 02:20
schestowitzjonchimk (joechizok)Jun 22 02:20
schestowitzmikehalJun 22 02:20
schestowitzpaulmaJun 22 02:20
schestowitzriscpcJun 22 02:20
schestowitzsteveb"Jun 22 02:20
schestowitz To go under the headline: Bill Gates: “Our Most Potent Operating System Competitor is Linux”Jun 22 17:42
trmancoa troll just came in the #gnote channelJun 22 19:37
trmancohe had a UK hostnameJun 22 19:37
trmancohe/she, don't really knowJun 22 19:38
schestowitzCan you paste here?Jun 22 19:39
schestowitz 22 19:41
trmancosureJun 22 19:44
trmancobut don't make it publicJun 22 19:44
schestowitzOh waitJun 22 19:44
schestowitzSome put it in pastebinJun 22 19:44
schestowitzor never  mindJun 22 19:44
schestowitzAnyway, there's gnote hatredJun 22 19:45
schestowitzI represents and poses a risk to c# fansJun 22 19:45
trmancothe guy seemed to be a c# fanJun 22 19:45
trmanco<livingdaylight> i pulled all my .tomboy files and dropped them in .gnote AND it works!Jun 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, yes, it would since gnote uses the same file formatJun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> mether, yes... but there was a disclaimer, on the gnote website or somewhere that i read, so i was happy that it woked out niceJun 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, disclaimer? can you point me to itJun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> The file format is the same as Tomboy's Note Format. But there no warranties about Tomboy being able to read them. You have been warned.Jun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, that means files created in gnote may not be read properly by Tomboy. the other way around should work just fineJun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> i seeJun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> if it is the same format why would it not work both ways? Why is it implying the risk is higher or existant only in one direction?Jun 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> well atleast a while backJun 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> there was a bugJun 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> with tomboy crashing on a minor date formatting differenceJun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> what is 'syncing' ?Jun 22 19:46
trmanco<mether> copying notes between computersJun 22 19:46
trmanco<livingdaylight> i read that gnote devs are working on itJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> i seeJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> i hear C++ is a horrible language to program in?Jun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, obviously gnote developers disagree :-)Jun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> oh, i thought they might be doing it with gritted teeth, just to spite Tomboy...Jun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> i thought it was universally accepted as fact that C++ aint beautiful codeJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> but maybe it is relative and it really suits someJun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, i dont think there is any spite involved and yes, different languages suit different purposes and tastes betterJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> apparently mono makes nice tidy efficient codeJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> mether, no spite? why go through the hassle of porting and recreating exactly the same application when it already exists and has a lot of active developers on it?Jun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, same reasons why you choose to use it?Jun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> don't follow you thereJun 22 19:47
trmanco<metherJun 22 19:47
trmancoah crapJun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> you choose to use it, yes?Jun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> trying it out, yesJun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> why are you interestedJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> all your leading questions will not necessarily apply to why they put in hours of hours recreating an applicationJun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> maybe. maybe notJun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> i am curious why you are trying it outJun 22 19:47
trmanco<livingdaylight> i'm curious why you don't think they are motivated by the fact that tomboy uses mono to invest a lot of time and energy recreating it... seems silly to deny that they are not motivated by some anti-mono agendaJun 22 19:47
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, well, I guess you already made up your mind. so no use askingJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> well, you've not given me reason  and shared why you think otherwise, as you apparently doJun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> how about you tell me why you are trying it out and I will tell you the other reasons whyJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> i'm just trying gnote coz its there-doesn't take me anytime to install itJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> i don't com into itJun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> com?Jun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> don't compare me taking two seconds to install something that is there with the hours and weeks of time to copy-cat an applicationJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> come... <---- you could figure it out, no?Jun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> noJun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> i dont come into it - doesnt make much senseJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> its interesting that you don't share why you think otherwise but choose to ask me questions that have no correspondenceJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> no, i don't come into itJun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> *shrug*Jun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> google would tell you easilyJun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> read itJun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> what does me trying gnote out have to do with their motivation to re-do tomboy in C++Jun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> ?Jun 22 19:48
trmanco<livingdaylight> kJun 22 19:48
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, you must have had some incentive to try it out. it is odd that you dont want to talk about itJun 22 19:48
trmanco<hub> nyu: it is not pushed yetJun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> hub, is there any particular reason the warning about not able to copy back notes from gnote into tomboy sJun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> hub, is there any particular reason the warning about not able to copy back notes from gnote into tomboy should remain?Jun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> mether: why not?Jun 22 19:49
trmanco<livingdaylight> so, according to the first blog he was just bored with nothing better to do... ok...Jun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, i think it is become more evident that you are here just to trollJun 22 19:49
trmanco<livingdaylight> mether, has it now?Jun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> hub, well if there is no reason to have that warning, we could remove it, I thinkJun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, yepJun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> livingdaylight: you know that talking about somebody at the 3rd person while said person is here is rudeJun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> mether: don'tJun 22 19:49
trmanco<livingdaylight> hub, i have no idea that the said person is hereJun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> livingdaylight: see, you are even a trollJun 22 19:49
trmanco<livingdaylight> if you say so....Jun 22 19:49
trmanco<livingdaylight> AND that is a terrible thing of courseJun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> mether: unless you want to do a complete QA on the problem, the warning has to remainJun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> hub, if you want me to test anything, I can. not sure what counts as complete QA. copying notes back and forth and editing them to test is relatively easyJun 22 19:49
trmanco<livingdaylight> mether, you could've just volunteered the articles in the first place... for which thx by the wayJun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> livingdaylight: the author wanted to see how doable it was to do to port from Gtk# to C++, and at the same time being able to have the feature provided by the app on a device with restricted spaceJun 22 19:49
trmanco<mether> livingdaylight, you read something which wasnt even in the article. so i am not sure it helped you in any wayJun 22 19:49
trmanco<hub> "<livingdaylight> i thought it was universally accepted as fact that C++ aint beautiful code" <- that is IMHO an uninformed trollJun 22 19:50
trmanco<livingdaylight> "In my attempts to fight my own boredom, as an unemployed hacker, I took on myself to do something: porting Tomboy to C++."Jun 22 19:50
trmanco<livingdaylight> is that not in the article?Jun 22 19:50
trmanco<livingdaylight> hub, what are you doing now?Jun 22 19:50
trmanco<hub> <- that's where it comes fromJun 22 19:50
trmanco<livingdaylight> thx for the info guys...Jun 22 19:50
trmancolivingdaylight> byeJun 22 19:50
trmanco* livingdaylight ( has left #gnoteJun 22 19:50
schestowitzWeird..Jun 22 19:50
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*unpure ( has left #boycottnovell-social ("Konversation terminated!")Jun 22 22:21
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MinceR 23 12:33
schestowitz*LOL*Jun 23 12:35
schestowitz#Jun 23 12:35
schestowitz134040 < piksi> the "liver transplant" jobs got wasn't a transplantJun 23 12:35
schestowitz#Jun 23 12:35
schestowitz134048 < piksi> it was a BALLMER-TRANSPLANTJun 23 12:35
oiaohmHopefully job's returns he is a great char of IT.Jun 23 12:36
MinceRwhat's great about him?Jun 23 12:36
schestowitzWoman demoted for being a mum 23 12:38
oiaohmI said char of IT.  He does know how to tell some good jokes.  Ok don't use mac but still would miss some of his warped answers to questions and the like at times.  MinceRJun 23 12:38
MinceRi'd rather miss his warped answers if it would mean less support for DRM and less dumbing down of IT.Jun 23 12:39
schestowitzOr not lying about itJun 23 12:39
schestowitz,1000000308,39285828,00.htmJun 23 12:40
schestowitzHannibal urges us to become veganJun 23 12:40
oiaohmI still would prefer jobs as competition compared to Ballmer.Jun 23 12:40
MinceRballmer is no competition, he's an enemyJun 23 12:41
MinceRand so is jobsJun 23 12:41
oiaohmBoth are enemies yes.   At least jobs does not have you looking at the tv screen thinking why.Jun 23 12:42
MinceRcompetition is about trying to provide a better/cheaper productJun 23 12:42
MinceRneither of them do thatJun 23 12:42
MinceRballmer tries to kill everyone in the market so that only he remainsJun 23 12:42
oiaohmI am a PC adds MinceRJun 23 12:42
MinceRjobs tries to make people want shittier products insteadJun 23 12:42
oiaohmFrom Ballmer even including him was very much why.Jun 23 12:42
schestowitzCanonical licences 'satanists' selling Ubuntu-esque t-shirts < > Jono started reading me...Jun 23 12:44
MinceRoiaohm: i don't understand that.Jun 23 12:44
oiaohmRemember the I am PC tv ads.Jun 23 12:44
oiaohmThen the signfield ads.Jun 23 12:44
oiaohmBaller track record on approving tv ads suxs.Jun 23 12:45
MinceRas for the ubuntu thing, if being evil is bad then they should stop supporting the christian and muslim versions.Jun 23 12:45
oiaohmOver jobs history he has approved a lot fo great ads.  Including the ad breaking free of big corprate.Jun 23 12:46
MinceRoiaohm: i haven't seen much of those adsJun 23 12:46
MinceRi didn't care much about the m$/crApple shitslinging.Jun 23 12:46
oiaohmJobs will leave us with something worth while to display in history classes.Jun 23 12:46
oiaohmAt Ballers rate its going to be a person you talk about in passing.Jun 23 12:47
oiaohmI take a very long term view of things MinceRJun 23 12:48
MinceReven then jobs' legacy will be a sad memory.Jun 23 12:48
MinceRit will be a monument to human stupidity.Jun 23 12:48
oiaohmAt least there will be some nice videos to break up the borring history leason with jobs.Jun 23 12:49
schestowitz"signfield" :-)Jun 23 12:49
schestowitzsingfield Freud..Jun 23 12:49
MinceRwell, ballmer has provided at least one video tooJun 23 12:50
MinceR"Dance Monkey Boy"Jun 23 12:50
oiaohmI am not sure you could call that releated to history.Jun 23 12:53
schestowitzIt's his best known videoJun 23 12:54
MinceR"these guys almost destroyed the IT industry"Jun 23 12:54
MinceRi'd say that's history.Jun 23 12:54
schestowitzHis kids must have changed surname to distance themselves from that 'dad'Jun 23 12:55
oiaohm  Best apple ad I know of and its old.Jun 23 12:56
oiaohmAnd you can have a lot of fun with it.Jun 23 12:56
MinceRironic considering how much crApple locks down everythingJun 23 12:57
MinceRibm wasn't big brother, it's crApple, m$ and googleJun 23 12:58
oiaohmSee fun for a history class.Jun 23 13:00
oiaohm  The matching presentation by steve jobs.  You don't see computer releases like that any more.Jun 23 13:02
MinceRyawnJun 23 13:05
MinceR"wow, it can scroll some text across the screen, let's all shriek and faint"Jun 23 13:05
oiaohmYet that was enough to get a crowd of people to respond as if its a great thing.Jun 23 13:07
schestowitzHehJun 23 13:07
schestowitz"Look! He pull a computer from a  bag"Jun 23 13:07
oiaohmThink that is 1984 MinceRJun 23 13:07
schestowitz*GASP*Jun 23 13:07
schestowitz*pullsJun 23 13:07
MinceRwell, it just shows that people were idiots even back in 1984Jun 23 13:08
MinceRa C64 did all that years before alreadyJun 23 13:08
MinceRfor lessJun 23 13:08
oiaohmIt kinda explains how everything got so badly screwed up.Jun 23 13:09
oiaohmEven today doing a history lesons I can find places for jobs.Jun 23 13:10
MinceRand the Sinclair QL did multitasking before jobs even knew what that was.Jun 23 13:11
oiaohmWith c64 and Sinclair history information shows how spoon feed the public was.Jun 23 13:12
MinceR 23 13:13
oiaohmIt is so true vegan can stuff there diet up far more simply than meat eaters.Jun 23 13:14
MinceRi'm an omnivore but i found that pic funny/cool anywayJun 23 13:17
schestowitzCarnivore.. *LOL*Jun 23 13:18
oiaohmIf you want to go vegan the best people to talk to is buddhist monks they have only being doing it for a few thousand years without major problems.Jun 23 13:19
schestowitzDo they live long?Jun 23 13:25
oiaohmbuddhist monks on adverage have longer life spans than there near by populations.   Between fitness and diet and taking that serousally explains the difference.Jun 23 13:28
oiaohmTalking to them you find out that vegan is not a simple selection there are a lot of foods you have to eat in correct combintions to stay healthy with vegan.Jun 23 13:30
oiaohmBeing omnivore is a far simpler path.Jun 23 13:31
oiaohmMost of the correct combinations are to make differnet protens and the like in the body simpler to produce.  Meat and fish provide simpler solutions to get protens.Jun 23 13:33
MinceRand they taste good.Jun 23 13:34
oiaohmThey task good because you body is smart.  You eat meat body does not have to do complex processes to make particular things.Jun 23 13:36
oiaohmAlso buddhist monks if you put a plate with meat in front of them and you did not know better they will still eat it and politely ask that next time you provide them with a meal without meat even provide a few receipes.Jun 23 13:38
oiaohmSince they take it as there mistake for being served meat.Jun 23 13:39
MinceRwill they eat vat-grown meat once it's available?Jun 23 13:43
oiaohmThat is a interesting question.Jun 23 13:43
oiaohmthey have a issue with killing another living creature.   Since vat-grown meat may never been a living creature it might pass the rules of buddhists.Jun 23 13:44
MinceRindeedJun 23 13:44
MinceRthough i don't know how difficult it is to switch the human body from vegetarian to omnivore and back.Jun 23 13:45
oiaohmThey do have issues with gm altered foods.Jun 23 13:45
MinceRwhat's the issue with it?Jun 23 13:45
MinceRi know what my issue is, but i doubt it's the sameJun 23 13:45
oiaohmThere issue is they have guide books how to eat safely and gm alters foods in ways they have never seen before and cannot predict out for a life time.Jun 23 13:46
oiaohmSwitching human body from vegetarian to omnivore and back is not that hard.Jun 23 13:46
MinceR(my issue is that afaik GM foods are paired with a patented pest control chemical which makes the client locked to that provider)Jun 23 13:46
oiaohmNote buddhist are more worried there life span might be shorted by gm foods.Jun 23 13:47
MinceRi'm doubtful about such effectsJun 23 13:47
MinceRbut it isn't entirely unthinkableJun 23 13:47
MinceRif it was done right, GM foods could certainly be advantageous, but they aren't.Jun 23 13:48
oiaohmfor how control a vegetarian has to keep there diet to stay healthy the alterations in gm could stuff up there combinations of foods to eat to stay heathy.Jun 23 13:48
oiaohmIf you eat food made by buddist rules swapping is not that hard.   My biggest problem is I truly do crave meat.   Never been able to stay vegetarian long.Jun 23 13:49
oiaohmThe problem for buddhists is time it takes for them to confirm if something is safe or not.   Its like 50 to 60 years at least.  GM alterations are happening way faster than that.Jun 23 13:51
oiaohmBasically we don't know enough about how humans will process chemicals from food long term to predict the long term effects of GM.Jun 23 13:53
MinceRi don't see the point of the whole vegan thingJun 23 13:59
MinceRit's natural for animals to eat other animals.Jun 23 13:59
MinceRhumans are adapted to be omnivores.Jun 23 13:59
oiaohmBuddist monks where is religion based.  If you say you will not kill where do you draw the line.Jun 23 14:00
oiaohmHumans are also adapted to be able to last long times without meat as well.Jun 23 14:01
oiaohmJust that way takes more brians.Jun 23 14:01
MinceRi don't say i will not kill. :)Jun 23 14:01
oiaohmOut of all the people who live the vegan way about the only ones I get along with are the Buddists.Jun 23 14:02
MinceRi figure i'd get along with any vegan as long as they don't want to change me :)Jun 23 14:03
oiaohmBuddists don't try to change anyone.  If you choose to follow there path so be it.Jun 23 14:03
MinceRi've heard they're fine folksJun 23 14:04
MinceRat least compared to other religionsJun 23 14:04
MinceRs/other/most other/Jun 23 14:04
oiaohmAlso are nice about it.   They dont expect you to produce a special meal for then and the like.  If they know you wanting to do something particular they will even bring there own food.Jun 23 14:05
oiaohmThe push vegan that expects you do do them a a vegan meal  and a meal for everyone else pisses me off.Jun 23 14:06
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 23 18:35:52 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovell-socialJun 23 18:35
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Jun 23 18:35
*Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009Jun 23 18:35
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectJun 23 18:35
schestowitzAmerican shoppers misled by greenwash, Congress told < >Jun 23 19:09
schestowitzCanonical is getting a little nervous now, wanting to phone me to control what I write :-) I got a message from Jono Bacon half an hour ago.Jun 23 20:54
schestowitz> BTW, you need a "netbook" tag.  I think that Microsoft has totallyJun 23 20:58
schestowitz> overreached in the netbook world, and your tag "hardware" is just tooJun 23 20:58
schestowitz> general for people to follow the specifics of the netbook thread.Jun 23 20:58
schestowitz> Jun 23 20:58
schestowitz> 23 20:58
schestowitzI'm planning indexes, built using the Wiki. First I'll do Comes of Gates, Ballmer and others. There's a paradise of smoking gun lined up here.Jun 23 20:58
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schestowitz"However, if any of my questions DO help point out something to you that you also find interesting, then please feel free to write about it and explain it in your own words.  That way I can learn more too.Jun 24 15:12
schestowitzAlso, I will go ahead and "textify" the attachments soon. The reason being that if you are aiming to accumulate a searchable database of all the Comes exhibits, it wouldn't be complete without the attachments.  They look like very interesting pieces of information. "Jun 24 15:12
schestowitzYes, most visitors use our 10,000 or so archival pages. We outgrew Groklaw.Jun 24 15:12
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schestowitzMeh. My mom hardly knows anything about computers, but now she knows how to mass-mail me powerpoint presentations. It won't stop !! :-)Jun 24 17:07
MinceR195255 < Phyl_Nincs> <RST38h> When I bought 14.4kbd modem, TELNET and FTP became so lightning fast...Jun 24 18:37
MinceR195255 < Phyl_Nincs> <jaem> what sort of lightning do you have where you live, then?Jun 24 18:37
MinceR195255 < Phyl_Nincs> <lcuk> the sort that used to buffer before strikingJun 24 18:38
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MinceRre lenti: the ip address is completely different thoughJun 24 22:49
MinceRi was wrongJun 24 22:50
MinceRsame ISPJun 24 22:50
schestowitzHaJun 24 22:51
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schestowitzNovell may not survive for much longerJun 25 00:12
schestowitzMaybe no longer than this yearJun 25 00:12
schestowitzMS is the Big Fish.. People learn about this nonsense only with experience. PJ for example learned a lot about FOSS, despite a paralegal background. We used to correspond daily, but she took the foot off Groklaw's throttle. Jun 25 00:12
schestowitzMS will take a few more years.Jun 25 00:12
schestowitzSCO still refuses to die.Jun 25 00:12
schestowitzI can probably afford more time writing. I personally diverged a little bit away from programming (my trained profession); it has become too common a skill to be perceived as a valuable one. The US suffers from offshoring for similar reasons of knowledge as a commodity.Jun 25 00:13
schestowitzI guess I'll do BN for a few more months, hopefully a year. I'm getting better at it. Jun 25 00:14
schestowitzBut still.. we're all noobs at 90%+ of the things -- cooking, astronomy, computers, etc. There are no exceptions besides those who know how to pretend like my boss, a Professor with an OBE and endless self pride. [I'm reminded of that old cliche about 90% of the couples having arguments and the other 10% just pretending not to.]Jun 25 00:14
schestowitzAnyhoo...Jun 25 00:15
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schestowitzNo OCR for this one, but it would be nice to extract the text from it one day (low priority though) 25 10:33
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trmanco"* Word and PowerPoint output tons of stuff that only looks good in IE dueJun 25 10:44
trmancoto the shared line layout code and bugs in other browsers implementation ofJun 25 10:44
trmancoCSS (which is essentially an IE-specific feature)"Jun 25 10:44
MinceRcss is an ie-specific feature now? :>Jun 25 12:03
trmancowell, according to billyg yesJun 25 12:04
trmancowait, that isn't from billyg, I tink it's some MS employeeJun 25 12:04
schestowitzHe says MS built/contributed the most to Web standardsJun 25 13:12
schestowitzSaid this in 2007 IIRCJun 25 13:12
MinceRi'm sure they invented the interned and the web after they realized their m$n walled garden failed :>Jun 25 13:13
schestowitzIranian hackers attack the US  < >Jun 25 14:10
MinceRs/ned/net/Jun 25 14:14
schestowitzPublic grilling for Gordon Brown and Tony Blair in Iraq inquiry < >Jun 25 14:20
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schestowitz"I continue to follow a particular blog which promotes healthy foods and argues against cheap, bull well-advertised unhealthy foods, which are mostly produced by multi-national corporations.  I notice a consistent trend.  He seems to have a regular poster there named "Derek" who apparently name shifts and tries hard to distract attention away from the blog's main points.  Here is the latest example:Jun 25 15:09
schestowitzFood Marketing: Impacts on Consumer ChoiceJun 25 15:09
schestowitz 25 15:09
schestowitzJust FYI -- no relation to BN apart from the example of shills (and I'm betting professional ones) in action."Jun 25 15:09
schestowitzThe likes of Edelman hire people for such jobs. BN suffers from some MS/Novell trolls, some working directly for the company.Jun 25 15:09
MinceRban themJun 25 15:10
MinceRor redirect them to another forum on the site called something like "Shill Corner" :>Jun 25 15:10
schestowitz==Jun 25 15:11
schestowitz"MS won't offer the upgrade route to EU users and no doubt blames the EU commission.  Except the EU never ordered them to do that, they said remove the browser. MS in typical mode, is misleadingly removing the upgrade option so as the EU gets the blame.Jun 25 15:11
schestowitz-------Jun 25 15:11
schestowitzSee the upgrade page in FF and iExplorer, they look different and uses Silverlight. Interoperability my arse :0Jun 25 15:11
schestowitz 25 15:11
schestowitz 25 15:11
schestowitzGet a load of Jack ShillfieldJun 25 15:11
schestowitz "Jun 25 15:11
schestowitzThis morning I spent 4 hours organising exhibits and one smoking gun that I found is 1 page long and is a massively important reference: Bill Gates: "Security as a lock in" < >Jun 25 17:16
MinceR 25 20:46
schestowitzBah.Jun 25 21:08
schestowitzRegarding : "We also stepped on a real scandal here . Rue de trone 4... Unbelievable. Microsoft lobbying is headquatered there. So is Taylor Wessing! *lol* Do we have access to any mainstream press? We also have the parliament committee amendment where the MEP covered his corruption up. We need to collect the facts first, I want it in a high profile print Jun 25 21:18
schestowitzmagazine as Der Spiegel. That will finish Lehne."Jun 25 21:18
schestowitz"We can put a lot of spin in there, like American multinationals writing EU position papers, and SME underrepresentation."Jun 25 21:18
schestowitz"I personally prefer dedicated fact collection pages for that. Sourcewatch is excellent but they do not cover the  EU. There is also had "Jun 25 21:19
schestowitz"I have a lot of content. Ideally I would like to see a kind of "Lobbypedia" or "eurowatch" as Sourcewatch, with Mediawiki as the engine.  I also know how to get sustainable funding but all of that needs some work and a team willing to work on the project. Also all this content can be used and further developedwhich is currently hosted at LaQuadrature: "Jun 25 21:19
schestowitzWe're getting close and the Microsoft ecosystem does take notice. Let's just keep the trolls out. The Mutex nym is gone.Jun 25 21:19
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schestowitzhave you seen this one yet? To Microsoft, this is war.Jun 26 00:06
oiaohmThe game is getting hot.Jun 26 00:07
schestowitzI'll do the next Comes in the morning. Here are two new ones about Linux: Jun 26 00:09
schestowitz"It will be VERY interesting to see what responses there are to your complaint to the Commission.  I hope it kicks off a tidalwave of complaints, too many for the Commission to ignore. "Jun 26 00:09
schestowitz"It does seem that hostilities are warming up these days, doesn't it?  I remember how bad things got just before Vista was released, it's likely to be MUCH worse this time. Desperation makes them mean...isn't Win/Vista 7 due out in October?  MS's hired hands probably have a mandate to close as many secret deals as possible this summer, they've also got to kill as much uptake of ODF as possible."Jun 26 00:10
schestowitz"If I remember correctly, "7" was originally due out in early 2010, but the date was pulled back to fall of '09.  When I heard it I thought to myself that it's their attempt to overshadow Ubuntu's next release.  I also think a lot of the escalating pro-mono hostility is aimed at killing the Koala for MS, from the inside.  It's all quite ugly, but also fascinating (and infuriating!) to watch."Jun 26 00:10
schestowitz"I believe that's why making Comes V MS exhibits available to the world, in searchable format, is extremely important.  Those documents are like a road map that very clearly shows the anti-competitive path MS has taken.  I love those exhibits because they explain in plain language that ordinary people can understand."Jun 26 00:10
schestowitz"Plus it's very easy to point to current behavior and compare it to those old documents, and show people how very relevant and effective those "old" strategies still are.  If MS think their customers don't care, they are very mistaken."Jun 26 00:10
oiaohmBasically if windows 7 was not released before Ubuntu they will not have any special feature to demo.Jun 26 00:10
oiaohmOnly special feature Windows 7 has is multi touch.Jun 26 00:11
oiaohmIf they left it to 2010 they may also be facing off against a Linux kernel with ram error correction.Jun 26 00:12
oiaohmBasically MS must release early and pray windows 7 works.Jun 26 00:12
schestowitzYes, it sucksJun 26 00:12
schestowitzit's lots of hype IMHOJun 26 00:12
schestowitzKoala's thunder is an issueJun 26 00:13
schestowitzUbuntu should change dateJun 26 00:13
schestowitzTo escape the Vista7 slogJun 26 00:13
schestowitzIt was the same when MS announced 32% dip in earningsJun 26 00:13
schestowitzSame day as Ubuntu release IIRCJun 26 00:13
oiaohmDo a google.Jun 26 00:13
schestowitzIt won't work wellJun 26 00:13
schestowitzNo moneyJun 26 00:13
schestowitz'Free' upgradeJun 26 00:13
oiaohmDon't publicly change the date.  Release early.Jun 26 00:14
schestowitzJust to block LinuxJun 26 00:14
schestowitzoiaohm: or laterJun 26 00:14
schestowitzI need to do lots of Comes before I take a vacationJun 26 00:14
schestowitzPresident of OSI is like a friend of the site. He collects those.Jun 26 00:14
schestowitzThere might be lawsuitsJun 26 00:14
oiaohmThere are other distributions that can hit before windows 7.Jun 26 00:15
oiaohmFedora is targeted before windows 7 release date.Jun 26 00:15
schestowitzThey can run, but they can't escape punishment (I'd hope for prison)Jun 26 00:15
schestowitzFeedora 12- DecemberJun 26 00:15
schestowitzAs usual, before cxmasJun 26 00:15
schestowitzI always remember Moonshine when I think about the Xmas party we hadJun 26 00:15
schestowitzLinux matured a lotJun 26 00:16
schestowitzWindows went backwardsJun 26 00:16
schestowitzMac been similar through OS 10.x seriesJun 26 00:16
oiaohmLinux still has a long way to go.Jun 26 00:16
schestowitzAnd they drop zfsJun 26 00:16
schestowitzi.e. they stay with crapfsJun 26 00:16
oiaohmcuse + realtime support could also allow alsa and oss to be removed from kernel space.Jun 26 00:17  << I am looking forward to his update.  I am fairly sure feature wise 2.6.30 Linux kernel has basically run the windows nt kernel under.Jun 26 00:19
schestowitzPuppet gets millions. 26 00:49
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schestowitz These are the last two Linux exhibits I have at hand. I post the texts also in other places and the trolls are going bonkers, which means it's effective.Jun 26 10:43
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schestowitz 26 10:56
oiaohmlolJun 26 10:59
schestowitzUK cop accuses colleagues of waterboarding pot suspects 26 11:03
schestowitzStupid zombies flood one site of mine:Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzIt looks like a lot of zombie PCs. From awstats:Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzHosts : 5812 Known, 1779 Unknown (unresolved ip)Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz7585 Unique visitorsPagesHitsBandwidthLast visitJun 26 13:27
schestowitz89.248.168.937106710616.36 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzhosted-by-jmhservices.com6440644014.83 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:48Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzphp15.nasza-klasa.pl6062606213.96 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzhosted-by.i3d.net5716571612.76 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:50Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzstatic.88-198-3-10.clients.your-server.de5353535321.76 MB25 Jun 2009 - 15:44Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz213.163.65.1775324532411.85 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:48Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzserv1.extremedhost.org4553455310.48 MB22 Jun 2009 - 00:41Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz93.174.93.583584358416.72 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:44Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz94-76-213-204.static.as29550.net346534657.61 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz83.233.30.10316431646.95 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz195.88.32.66263326335.68 MB25 Jun 2009 - 18:46Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzno.rdns-yet.ukservers.com2456245625.53 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzstatic.213-239-200-199.clients.your-server.de231223127.25 MB24 Jun 2009 - 10:29Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz8323316588-host.servainet.com220822089.63 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz93.174.93.2001866186618.46 MB25 Jun 2009 - 17:17Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz89-149-208-29.internetserviceteam.com155815583.42 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz93.174.93.102130113015.45 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:36Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzstatic.88-198-43-228.clients.your-server.de129612967.82 MB17 Jun 2009 - 14:21Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz94.142.128.222126012602.83 MB24 Jun 2009 - 13:34Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz83.233.30.159121912192.69 MB06 Jun 2009 - 19:29Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz89-149-242-25.internetserviceteam.com106810682.46 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz83.233.30.35106210622.38 MB04 Jun 2009 - 23:04Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz89.248.160.241104010402.53 MB12 Jun 2009 - 18:50Jun 26 13:27 MB25 Jun 2009 - 16:53Jun 26 13:27
schestowitz74.50.117.969209203.52 MB24 Jun 2009 - 16:49Jun 26 13:27
schestowitzI fear it'll overrun bandwidth soon. I blacklisted some of these.Jun 26 13:27
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schestowitz"cj" works for Microsoft. He's here to promote Mono and Moonlight like any MS employee would doJun 26 16:50
schestowitz 26 17:02
schestowitzYou'll see the trolls. :-)Jun 26 17:02
schestowitz"...and the trolls are going bonkers, which means it's effective." Jun 26 17:04
schestowitzIt's funny, you'd think they'd understand that making so much noise and fuss only brings more attention to the whole thing.  But I guess they gotta earn their pay. Jun 26 17:04
schestowitzAlso, I was surprised to read about ACT being based in Scottsdale, AZ.  That's a considerable drive from here, but sometime it might be fun to go to that address and see if it's a real office.  I don't know if you have such a thing where you live, but here there are "mailbox" places that sell addresses to companies, where they can get mail, but there's no actual office. Jun 26 17:04
schestowitz 26 17:30
schestowitzpwnage: 26 20:34
MinceRhm, zilog is from bigpond tooJun 27 14:03
schestowitzLinsux troll SeanJun 27 19:23
schestowitzIgnore pleaseJun 27 19:23
schestowitzJeeesus. Fox is mad. 27 19:49
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fewaEEDavidBurg is a trollJun 27 22:39
schestowitzOf coruseJun 27 22:42
schestowitzHe's from LinsuxJun 27 22:42
schestowitzSee how much energy is now spent defending Apple?Jun 27 22:52
schestowitzThat's why the trolls reduce signal by turning it to another /.Jun 27 22:52
fewayepJun 27 22:52
fewawhat does your cousin think of the Baca bill H.R. 1846?Jun 27 22:54
schestowitzI don't knowJun 27 22:55
schestowitzI hardly speak to himJun 27 22:55
fewait is payday loans right?Jun 27 22:55
fewa"check cashing business"Jun 27 22:55
schestowitzI heard about it in some Canadian TV showJun 27 22:57
schestowitzI thinkJun 27 22:57
fewaprobably notJun 27 22:57
fewa 27 22:57
schestowitz"H.R. 1214 would cap the annual percentage rate (APR) for payday loans at 391 percent in the 23 states where it is now allowed to exceed 391 percent.[6]"Jun 27 22:58
schestowitzWell, just 400%Jun 27 22:58
schestowitzWhat can ever go wrong?Jun 27 22:58
fewaits not as if credit card companies dont do that to people with late fees, retail fees, credit fees, and conversion feesJun 27 23:08
MinceRwe should really kickban trolls instead of ignoring them. :>Jun 27 23:33
schestowitzMinceR: which one/s?Jun 27 23:34
MinceREDavidBurgJun 27 23:34
MinceR005027 < fewa> MinceR, ignore the troll when he gets deperate for attentionJun 27 23:34
fewa<EDavidBurg> I'd like to think my argument has left you speechless, but it's probably more likely that your tirades in response are not yet complete.Jun 27 23:35
schestowitzIf they have a discussion it's hard to ban themJun 27 23:36
schestowitzIt would look badJun 27 23:36
schestowitzMutex just whispered FUDJun 27 23:36
MinceRin their eyes we look bad anywayJun 27 23:36
fewamehJun 27 23:40
fewaif he shuts up voluntarily its betterJun 27 23:41
schestowitzYesJun 27 23:43
MinceRif.Jun 27 23:43
schestowitzI'll unban ryanJun 27 23:43
MinceRgetting more trolls to revitalize the discussion? :>Jun 27 23:43
MinceR(if that can be called "vital")Jun 27 23:44
schestowitzI can't even remember who's who in the ban fileJun 27 23:44
MinceRbetter leave them there, then. :>Jun 27 23:44
schestowitzMinceR: he won't be back. But it'll make it clear that we're more fairJun 27 23:44
MinceRthey'll never believe us to be fairJun 27 23:45
schestowitzBesides, whack-a-hole is fun to playJun 27 23:45
MinceRand even if they did, they won't say soJun 27 23:45
MinceRif they had a point, they wouldn't resort to this.Jun 27 23:45
schestowitz_goblin feeds trolls a lotJun 27 23:55
schestowitzAlso in twitter and in his blogJun 27 23:56
schestowitzhe interrogates themJun 27 23:56
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trmanco 28 12:20
trmancohey lookJun 28 12:20
trmancoI'm from south america nowJun 28 12:20
schestowitz"> Yes, I'm aware of that, but it's wholly irrelevant to my argument. I amJun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > not claiming, nor have I ever claimed, this software is not availableJun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > under different licenses.Jun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > Jun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > The point I take issue with is Novell's interpretation of non-LGPL use,Jun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > which as I indicated, would preclude LGPL distribution on something asJun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > innocuous as a LiveCD. There is absolutely /nothing/ in the LGPL whichJun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > precludes distribution on inherently immutable systems, so this clauseJun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > is a "further restriction", as explicitly prohibited under the LGPL.Jun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > Therefore Moonlight is explicitly non-Free software, regardless of anyJun 28 14:03
schestowitz> > potential patent threats.Jun 28 14:03
schestowitznon-LGPL use means just that: use under terms other than the LGPL.  IfJun 28 14:03
schestowitzyou don't like or don't want those terms, you can convey those in the LGPLJun 28 14:03
schestowitzinstead.Jun 28 14:03
schestowitzNotice they also want to support distribution on tivoized systems, notJun 28 14:03
schestowitzjust inherently inmutable ones.  But this is not LGPLv3, so such wordingJun 28 14:03
schestowitzis unnecessary.  Maybe Novell's legal department is paranoid, orJun 28 14:03
schestowitzincompetent (or both)."Jun 28 14:03
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schestowitz"Yes, I completely understand that, and I'm not sure why you think IJun 28 14:46
schestowitzdon't, or why it is even relevant.Jun 28 14:46
schestowitzDistributing LGPL software on inherently immutable systems is /not/Jun 28 14:46
schestowitz"non-LGPL use". Period. Novell's assertion is a lie.Jun 28 14:46
schestowitzThe fact than Novell wish to fool people into seeking non-LGPLJun 28 14:46
schestowitzlicensing, where it is totally unnecessary, is quite palpable, but thatJun 28 14:46
schestowitzdoes not make their assertion true. I don't care that other licensing isJun 28 14:46
schestowitzavailable as an option. I don't care that I (or others) may distributeJun 28 14:46
schestowitzand use this software on immutable systems *if* we/they are fooled intoJun 28 14:46
schestowitzaccepting a proprietary license. The fact that "other licenses areJun 28 14:46
schestowitzavailable" is completely and utterly irrelevant. Novell is pervertingJun 28 14:46
schestowitzthe meaning of the LGPL, and abusing that bastardisation to "sell" theJun 28 14:46
schestowitzfalse premise that Moonlight is Free Software, when it clearly is not.Jun 28 14:46
schestowitz"Jun 28 14:46
schestowitzIt's not paranoia.Jun 28 14:48
schestowitzLet me solve the mystery for you.Jun 28 14:48
schestowitzNovell need to force, through licensing, distribution of Moonlight in aJun 28 14:48
schestowitzmanner in which they can *guarantee* it will be updated with a certainJun 28 14:48
schestowitzspecific component that /they/ push to users - something not possible onJun 28 14:48
schestowitzimmutable systems. And on immutable systems, Novell can ensure thisJun 28 14:48
schestowitzmysterious component is either preinstalled, or paid for in lieu anywayJun 28 14:48
schestowitz(at ISV level), due to their "non-LGPL use" redefinition clause.Jun 28 14:48
schestowitzGuess what that component is, where it comes from, and why Novell "need"Jun 28 14:48
schestowitzMoonlight users to deploy it.Jun 28 14:48
schestowitz 28 14:48
schestowitzYes, that's right, it's Microsoft's pet monkey pushing yet more of theirJun 28 14:48
schestowitzproprietary and encumbered standards down Free Software users' throatsJun 28 14:48
schestowitzagain. Not content with poisoning us with their .NET SilverlightJun 28 14:48
schestowitz(Moonlight) garbage, they also want to coerce us into accepting theirJun 28 14:48
schestowitzproprietary licensed, patent encumbered media codecs, via a "push" toJun 28 14:48
schestowitzall Moonlight users to install "MICROSOFT MEDIA PACK 1.0".Jun 28 14:48
schestowitz*That* is the /real/ reason for all this "we consider non-LGPL use..."Jun 28 14:48
schestowitznonsense. *That* is why these systems /need/ to by mutable, so they canJun 28 14:48
schestowitzinstall this "media pack" at Microsoft's behest. De Icaza and friendsJun 28 14:48
schestowitzare simply trying to force people to install proprietary MicrosoftJun 28 14:48
schestowitzcodecs. No doubt this is in fact part of the "arrangement" de Icaza hasJun 28 14:48
schestowitzcome to with the Vole, in order that they tolerate this SilverlightJun 28 14:48
schestowitz"Cloneware" from Novell. Although I deeply suspect that there is littleJun 28 14:48
schestowitzcoercion on either side. Novell and Microsoft now have the same agenda.Jun 28 14:48
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trmancoit's time to show my appreciation for mozilla and firefoxJun 28 17:25
trmancoI'm building a single page with a vid and then a link to download firefox 3.5's final releaseJun 28 17:25
schestowitzNice.Jun 28 17:25
trmancowhen firefox 3.5 hits final, I'll redirect all my visitors to that page for 24 hoursJun 28 17:26
trmanco:-)Jun 28 17:26
schestowitzThere is no record-breaking attemptJun 28 17:26
schestowitzSave the energyJun 28 17:26
trmancono recordJun 28 17:26
schestowitzI thought about it last nigthJun 28 17:26
schestowitzThey won't run for itJun 28 17:26
trmancojust something mineJun 28 17:26
trmancopromote open videoJun 28 17:26
schestowitzIf they had, they'd miss the last target and then disappointJun 28 17:26
schestowitz[I think]Jun 28 17:26
schestowitzAlso less to see in 3.1 (aka 3.FIEV)Jun 28 17:27
fewaschestowitz, most users will auto-update a few weeks after the releaseJun 28 17:38
fewaand hardly even noticeJun 28 17:38
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schestowitzI really think this should be analized by a lawyer.Jun 29 12:44
schestowitzNot sure if it's DDOS or just a mad botJun 29 12:44
schestowitzMore like DDOSJun 29 12:45
schestowitzBut not sure yet.Jun 29 12:45
trmanco 29 12:45
trmancoicaza posted thisJun 29 12:46
trmancoon twitterJun 29 12:46
MinceRpftJun 29 12:47
schestowitzIsn't this the gnome-do developer?Jun 29 12:48
schestowitzHe works for Canonical nowJun 29 12:48
schestowitzThe other Mono farmJun 29 12:48
trmancoI have no ideaJun 29 12:49
schestowitzMaybe it's another guyJun 29 12:50
schestowitzI'm  not sureJun 29 12:50
MinceRso canonical completely bought into mono already?Jun 29 13:01
trmancoit is himJun 29 13:08
trmanco 29 13:08
schestowitzThe Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security < >. Sounds like Windows defined.Jun 29 13:14
MinceRalso osx.Jun 29 13:19
schestowitzHacked with one key and no scrollerJun 29 13:20
schestowitzOT: 29 13:26
schestowitzNice picture: 29 13:28
schestowitz saving together " is in really bad shape. There, I said it. Most of us knew it, but now it's been said. The good news is that it's rescuable. The even better news is that people want to rescue it, and some are actually doing things to make it happen."Jun 29 13:33
oiaohmCall to arms.Jun 29 13:49
schestowitzGNOME is busy integrating with .NET, not KDEJun 29 13:50
oiaohmGnome was anti intergration before .net appeared.Jun 29 14:18
oiaohmThey have always been the hardest to get to the intergration table.Jun 29 14:19
MinceRwas it?Jun 29 14:19
oiaohmI have dealing on and off with gnome and kde developers over intergration since 1995 MinceRJun 29 14:19
oiaohmKde developers will always be at the table to talk integration.  They understand the importance fact it can save future development costs.Jun 29 14:20
oiaohmGnome developers it can some times be impossable to even get them to sit down and talk to the other windows manager and application developers.Jun 29 14:21
oiaohmLast one was a year ago trying to get desktop lock down in kde and gnome done the same way.Jun 29 14:22
oiaohm  Hopefully this does some good.Jun 29 14:24
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schestowitzkrens smells like a yuhoung/daemonXX-like trollJun 29 20:15
schestowitzFUDding Linux and creating Vista buzzJun 29 20:15
MinceRdo what must be done. do not hesitate. show no mercy.Jun 29 20:18
schestowitz"Hi, Roy,Jun 29 21:17
schestowitzI am reminded in this piece by the efforts that MS has gone to inJun 29 21:17
schestowitzpreventing interoperability even with interoperability specificationsJun 29 21:17
schestowitzlike ODBC:Jun 29 21:17
schestowitz 29 21:17
schestowitzI see that G. Michaels is attacking.  Jo Shields did the same.  MSFTersJun 29 21:17
schestowitzalways do that when on the ropes.  Keep up the good work."Jun 29 21:17
fewaethics fascism: 29 21:21
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trmancowho is riley scott?Jun 30 11:28
schestowitzNo idea. Anyone else..?Jun 30 11:30
trmancocheck twitterJun 30 11:31
trmancoI'm sure he sent you the same message?Jun 30 11:31
trmancosomething about martiJun 30 11:31
trmancoit looks like somekind of a botJun 30 11:33
schestowitzWeirdJun 30 11:33
trmancosomebody posted a message on cola and the subject lines contained @@Jun 30 11:33
oiaohmriley scott is almost as bad as john smith.Jun 30 11:33
oiaohmIts not a rare name.Jun 30 11:34
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schestowitzGood news. Comes comes handy.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitz"There's what could be a wealth of historical information in civil case court exhibits. Unfortunately, in the federal court system, one year after a case is no longer subject to further appeal, the court clerks send around notices to the parties. The notices inform them that it is time to archive the case records and that they're going to destroy the exhibits.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzThey give the parties something like 30 days to pick up their own exhibits if they want to keep them. Suspect that the system is a bit different on the criminal side of case records since an imprisoned defendant may always file for a writ of habeas corpus that would revive the need for the court to review the record of the case leading to conviction and sentencing.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzOr at least that's the way it worked at the time of my retirement. May be changing now that documents can be filed in electronic format. Can't remember whether it was in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure or in 28 U.S.C., but there were also rules about whose case exhibit records become the official record should a case be revived after the court's copies of exhibits are destroyed.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzI recall that in cases in which the government was a party, it's the Feds' copies of exhibits that become the court record's exhibits.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzWhich is probably why DoJ has the U.S. v. Microsoft case trial exhibits archived on its web site.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzBut the sheer volume of historical records removed from the public domain by destruction of case exhibits is nothing short of staggering, the kind of stuff that records how people actually behave rather than the facade they project to the world. Destruction of court records should be a felony crime, in my book.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzFor example, historians' largest body of written evidence of what life was like in the first century or so of the Massachusetts Bay Colony is the court records that survived. They're frustratingly terse, somewhat akin to a modern clerk's docket entries. Ditto for the history of medieval England.Jun 30 20:00
schestowitzYou do a huge public service by preserving and making more accessible the MicrosoJun 30 20:00
schestowitz..accessible the Microsoft trial exhibits."Jun 30 20:00

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