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| schestowitz | <tessier> I still see plenty of packets bouncing off the firewall. But to no effect. The site has been solid for a few days now. Eventually I will put it behind some real firewalls and a webapp firewall etc. | Jun 01 22:16 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Thanks! :-) | Jun 01 22:16 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Some people say it's slow | Jun 01 22:16 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Sometimes not responding | Jun 01 22:16 |
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| schestowitz | Some more people have mailed me about trouble accessing the site. It must be the firewall... | Jun 02 08:22 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Some more people have mailed me about trouble accessing the site. It must be the firewall... | Jun 02 08:35 |
| schestowitz | <tessier> Could be... | Jun 02 08:35 |
| schestowitz | <tessier> I can open it up a bit more... | Jun 02 08:35 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Maybe if I have a trigger for enabling it if attacks begin.. | Jun 02 08:35 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> like firewall.sh | Jun 02 08:35 |
| schestowitz | <tessier> I just set it to require 30 hits in 30 seconds instead of 15 | Jun 02 08:37 |
| oiaohm | Check those emails schestowitz. | Jun 02 08:50 |
| oiaohm | Carefully for anyone trying to hide who they are. | Jun 02 08:51 |
| oiaohm | Would not be the first time I have see a defeated attacker email the site to try to get the filtering turned off. | Jun 02 08:51 |
| oiaohm | Yes it and old text book sucker punch. | Jun 02 08:52 |
| schestowitz | It's people I know | Jun 02 09:36 |
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| *Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect | Jun 02 09:40 | |
| schestowitz | The new ads have just been publicly announced (press release). Google ads merely paid the hosting fees. We got DDOSed (almost 2 weeks now... still going in bursts) and moved to dedicated, so I hope to pay the hosting bill with these ads | Jun 02 16:28 |
| schestowitz | Newspapers are dying. This gives a form of indication where publishing goes as an activity worth of compensation to writers. Writing, to a large extent like code, becomes commodity. My point of view is that if writings promote something like PTS or enable some artists to perform in public, then the idea of having incentives to write remain. I do it for fun. | Jun 02 16:31 |
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| schestowitz | I'm adding one small banner at the side instead of Google. it causes no conflict and the money will go to the host via PayPal. | Jun 02 20:56 |
| MinceR | nice. | Jun 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | FOSS only | Jun 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> Hi, Roy. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> I can only assume you read the email I sent you? | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> Hm, maybe I'm still blocked. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> Are you sure? I sent it from iliketowritestuff@gmail.com | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> I'll leave if you really want me to. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> But I'm just trying to be a polite little visitor. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> Becuase truth be told. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Try s@schestowitz.com | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> I really do love the FOSS community. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> I tried sending it to the one you gave me, as well as your original from your personal site. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | <mike_sideris> I just feel that I ought to set the record straight on a few things is all. | Jun 02 22:23 |
| schestowitz | The BN hater is back | Jun 02 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | Here is the announcement about us joining the network http://www.fsf.org/news/ad-bard | Jun 03 19:08 |
| MinceR | nice | Jun 03 20:40 |
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| schestowitz | Another DDoS it seems. | Jun 04 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully not blocking google. | Jun 04 12:07 |
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| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Jun 05 09:07 | |
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| MinceR | the web server appears to be unreachable. | Jun 05 10:28 |
| MinceR | ddos? | Jun 05 10:28 |
| oiaohm | I have a feeling someone might have kicked something important they were talking about cron jobs before MinceR | Jun 05 10:35 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jun 05 10:36 |
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| MinceR | couldn't we change this policy of not kicking trolls even if it kills meaningful discussion and wastes everyone's attention? | Jun 06 23:23 |
| schestowitz | I thought about it | Jun 06 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Next time we'll ignore them | Jun 06 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Homo erectus Utlimate Edition kills all species.. Amazon rainforests pay the price as demand for beef soars < http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/may/31/cattle-trade-brazil-greenpeace-amazon-deforestation > | Jun 06 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we'll go get those deep-seas octopuses when 'stuff' to devour runs out | Jun 06 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we'll find a way to turn fossil fuel to body fuel | Jun 06 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Exxon, the restaurant.. opening soon.. | Jun 06 23:54 |
| schestowitz | "pay-per-pee fee" http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/02/ryanair-airline-oleary-toilet-charge | Jun 06 23:55 |
| MinceR | and what will happen to the public log then? | Jun 06 23:56 |
| MinceR | will it be full of crapflood from trolls? | Jun 06 23:57 |
| schestowitz | I guess. | Jun 07 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Rare embarrassment | Jun 07 00:06 |
| schestowitz | Make MS look like drunk wankers | Jun 07 00:06 |
| MinceR | and make the logs useless | Jun 07 00:06 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 8 17:21:13 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 08 17:21 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 08 17:21 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 08 17:21 | |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitz | Jun 08 17:22 | |
| >ChanServ<op #boycottnovell-social schestowitz | Jun 08 17:22 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Jun 08 17:22 | |
| *#boycottnovell-social :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | Jun 08 17:23 | |
| *fewa has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jun 09 03:37 | |
| schestowitz | DDoS again | Jun 09 10:16 |
| schestowitz | SOBs | Jun 09 10:16 |
| schestowitz | They seem to have just struck again. | Jun 09 10:18 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 09 10:20 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: DDOS again | Jun 09 10:21 |
| schestowitz | I wrongly thought they got bored | Jun 09 10:21 |
| schestowitz | And there was one attack yesterday too (at least) | Jun 09 10:21 |
| schestowitz | boycottnovell also got infested with the linsux crowd | Jun 09 10:21 |
| oiaohm | linsux guys are playing with fire. | Jun 09 10:22 |
| oiaohm | Its just getting too much to be chance that there interest and influx of ddos attacks line up. | Jun 09 10:23 |
| schestowitz | Can you reach the site? | Jun 09 10:28 |
| oiaohm | my bandwidth will still be limited until mid night tonight. So I cannot get to the site at moment but that might be my end. | Jun 09 10:32 |
| schestowitz | I've restarted apache | Jun 09 10:38 |
| oiaohm | Hmm it appears to be working now. | Jun 09 10:45 |
| schestowitz | They got bored | Jun 09 10:51 |
| *MinceR is now known as MinceR_ | Jun 09 12:16 | |
| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR` | Jun 09 12:16 | |
| *MinceR` is now known as MinceR | Jun 09 12:17 | |
| MinceR | couldn't we please get rid of IdiotFC? | Jun 09 13:25 |
| schestowitz | Just don't feed him | Jun 09 13:35 |
| MinceR | i don't have my soft ignore script yet :/ | Jun 09 13:39 |
| MinceR | though i guess i'd still have to look for ad hominems | Jun 09 13:39 |
| *fewa (n=fewa@174-21-87-171.tukw.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 09 13:47 | |
| oiaohm | Me ended up AFK Australia and usa using two different set of digital devices. AUS is using DVB-T lot of them don't need firmware. | Jun 09 14:32 |
| oiaohm | FC is very much USA centric. | Jun 09 14:32 |
| schestowitz | Oh YEAH | Jun 09 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Central US | Jun 09 14:54 |
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| trmanco | oh | Jun 09 21:33 |
| trmanco | this actually exists | Jun 09 21:33 |
| trmanco | heh | Jun 09 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Usually for talks about things we keep quiet about | Jun 09 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Like DDOS attacks or troblemakers like daemonfc | Jun 09 21:43 |
| trmanco | the main channel looks like a zoo | Jun 09 23:18 |
| schestowitz | I know | Jun 09 23:32 |
| schestowitz | They trey to ruin it | Jun 09 23:32 |
| schestowitz | Suggestions? | Jun 09 23:32 |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 9 23:33:38 2009 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 9 23:33:38 2009 | ||
| fewa | kick him for saying someone should get banned | Jun 09 23:38 |
| fewa | thats a clear indiscretion | Jun 09 23:38 |
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| schestowitz | <clsmith> schestowitz: I don't get why the [sic] is there. | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <bjwebb> lol | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <bjwebb> clsmith: because its not really a foundation? | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | * bjwebb shrugs | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> No | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> kernel :-) | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <clsmith> schestowitz: But in the link they write "Linux Foundation"...? | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <bjwebb> kernel[sic] foundation | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> not GNU | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <clsmith> Huh. | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | * clsmith shrugs. | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> LF is not a representation of the whole system. Zemlin: "respect Microsoft" (2007) | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <clsmith> schestowitz: Well, neither is the whole system called Linux. | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <clsmith> ;) | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <clsmith> Anyway, got to go eat. | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <clsmith> Bye all. | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> :-) | Jun 10 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> I kid. | Jun 10 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | DDOS again.. | Jun 11 11:02 |
| schestowitz | I think. | Jun 11 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Attacker went away | Jun 11 11:07 |
| oiaohm | There will be normal pulses from places like google. | Jun 11 11:09 |
| oiaohm | So server will never be 100 percent presure less. | Jun 11 11:09 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know, but the patter was familiar | Jun 11 11:29 |
| schestowitz | And we had a DDOS yesterday | Jun 11 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Or the day before that, confirmed by the admin | Jun 11 11:29 |
| schestowitz | IRC log for the 9th was 1.3 MB !! | Jun 11 11:30 |
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| MinceR | nolikeyme is the same user again | Jun 11 19:56 |
| MinceR | your banmasks are ineffective | Jun 11 19:56 |
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| schestowitz | I think Bruce Perens closed his site down after similar weird people took over it | Jun 11 21:05 |
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| *Disconnected (Connection reset by peer). | Jun 11 23:51 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 23:51:41 2009 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 11 23:52:19 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 11 23:52 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 11 23:52 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 11 23:52 | |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 12 01:04:37 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 12 01:04 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 12 01:04 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 12 01:04 | |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 12 01:33:10 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 12 01:33 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 12 01:33 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 12 01:33 | |
| *#boycottnovell-social :[freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | Jun 12 01:33 | |
| schestowitz | Did I miss anything in this channel? | Jun 12 01:46 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 12 02:24 | |
| MinceR | nope | Jun 12 07:15 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: how usable are ati's drivers nowadays? i'm looking for a new laptop. | Jun 12 07:17 |
| schestowitz | THanks, MinceR | Jun 12 08:23 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I'll have a better run this time... 3.5 months... until Sept. | Jun 12 08:23 |
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| *MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 12 09:11 | |
| MinceR_ | np | Jun 12 09:38 |
| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Jun 12 09:38 | |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Jun 12 15:50 |
| schestowitz | ""On that note, I'll also comment on the latest BN troll wars. It's rather amusing that they accuse you of a broad range of misbehaviours including libel, insulting the work of others and declaring someone guilty before it's proven. I accuse them of hypocrisy -- doing exactly to you what they accuse you of doing to others. " | Jun 12 15:50 |
| schestowitz | "They are rather inarticulate, have trouble supporting their arguments with evidence and have a propensity to take cheap shots. When they talk about Mono, an old saying from the Microsoft v. US DOJ case comes to mind: "It's [Windows is] an operating system, not a religion." (Ted Waite, then CEO of Gateway.) Or perhaps I should paraphrase Steve Ballmer: "Evangelists, evangelists, evangelists, evangelists, evangelists ..." : | Jun 12 15:51 |
| schestowitz | /" | Jun 12 15:51 |
| schestowitz | "Keep up the good work. I continue to read BN because it is a good example of providing a much needed balance to mainstream media coverage." | Jun 12 15:51 |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 12 15:56 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: ATI not there yet. End year I was predicting ok. | Jun 12 15:56 |
| MinceR | thanks. | Jun 12 15:56 |
| MinceR | that's what i was afraid of -- lenovo's nvidia offering is very small. | Jun 12 15:57 |
| oiaohm | When ATI works it will be better than Nvidia for a while. | Jun 12 15:57 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem we are in a half way point. | Jun 12 15:57 |
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| trmanco | is this logged? | Jun 12 17:46 |
| schestowitz | <anon> well | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> it's no secret anymore | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> war has begun :-) | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> http://planet.debian.org/ | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> thanks | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> so what do you think? | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> post coming soon. | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> More here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/12/smears-against-boycott-novell/ | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> yeah, read that. really nasty | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> Jo keeps triing to harm your reputation in every way he can | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> other mono folk do the same. looks like the "standard procedure" | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | <anon> what do you think on the debian situation? | Jun 12 17:47 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: never been logged since it started | Jun 12 17:47 |
| trmanco | than the title if misleading | Jun 12 17:47 |
| trmanco | Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 12 17:48 |
| schestowitz | ACK | Jun 12 18:07 |
| trmanco | the topic on this channel was the one that was misleading, because it's not logged and the title says otherwise | Jun 12 18:11 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Jun 12 18:18 |
| schestowitz | But maybe it'll be logged one day | Jun 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | It started as an OT channel | Jun 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | When DDOS started we used it to hide from lurking attackers | Jun 12 18:19 |
| trmanco | oh, I see | Jun 12 18:20 |
| schestowitz | anon> hey there | Jun 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | <anon> does jo work for oxford | Jun 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | <anon> seems he does | Jun 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | <anon> was always curious what jo looks like..dunno way but oh well I found out <not that it matter, just my curiosity>: http://www.oerc.ox.ac.uk/people/jo-shields < we already knew what you looked like and me..its nice toput the picture to the constant barage of text ;))) | Jun 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | <anon> anyway- | Jun 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | <anon> latre | Jun 12 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 12 18:43 |
| trmanco | lol | Jun 12 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Reviving American chestnuts may mitigate climate change < http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-06/pu-rac061009.php > | Jun 12 18:46 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: usually he's visualised of a chicken or a monkey | Jun 12 18:47 |
| trmanco | chestnuts? | Jun 12 18:51 |
| schestowitz | Aye! | Jun 12 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Actually sounds like some people calling me "nuts" | Jun 12 18:52 |
| trmanco | lol | Jun 12 18:57 |
| *trmanco Hello, my name is Nuts... Chest Nuts :-P | Jun 12 18:57 | |
| schestowitz | Junior. | Jun 12 19:05 |
| trmanco | :) | Jun 12 19:07 |
| schestowitz | The Fink arsegole is causing trouble | Jun 12 19:37 |
| schestowitz | He's harrassing people | Jun 12 19:37 |
| schestowitz | And gives me trouble too | Jun 12 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Because he tries to associated himself with me... | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | "Do you want me to humiliate him? | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | The fact that he raises issues with Mono is one thing. The fact that he | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | resorted to dirty behaviour is another. I don't condone the behaviour, | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | but if people link to us, am I supposed to mock them?" | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | "Wait a second. What IRC? | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | What is this about? | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | I never spoke to "Fink" until I mailed him yesterday. I didn't feel | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | comfortable just outright attacking him for linking to us and the whole | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | thing that happened had NOTHING to do with me. None of this is to do | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | with me. David asked me to step in, which I did." | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Did we ever have a Fink in IRC? | Jun 12 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Did he comment in BN? | Jun 12 19:38 |
| trmanco | irc, not that I remember of | Jun 12 19:40 |
| schestowitz | This is turning to a mess | Jun 12 19:45 |
| schestowitz | "That guy is nuts. | Jun 12 19:45 |
| schestowitz | I never spoke to him until yesterday and I couldn't just curse to his face for linking to my writings and saying good things about me. Try to look at it from my position. How would you have approached him?" | Jun 12 19:45 |
| schestowitz | That guy David apparently wants to sue Fink | Jun 12 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Mind you, I never came into this | Jun 12 19:46 |
| schestowitz | it's David who came into BN | Jun 12 19:46 |
| schestowitz | he asked me to sort things out | Jun 12 19:46 |
| trmanco | David... David S...? | Jun 12 19:46 |
| schestowitz | With someone whom I never spoke to | Jun 12 19:46 |
| trmanco | don't know the rest | Jun 12 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. | Jun 12 19:46 |
| schestowitz | And that nutter Fink | Jun 12 19:46 |
| trmanco | if you follow the ubuntu-devel-discuss mono thread you can see what happened | Jun 12 19:47 |
| trmanco | http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ubuntu.devel.discuss/8502 | Jun 12 19:48 |
| trmanco | I would read it all if I were you | Jun 12 19:48 |
| schestowitz | I'm not going to step into the threat | Jun 12 19:48 |
| schestowitz | I want nothing to do with it | Jun 12 19:49 |
| schestowitz | And coming in may only make it seem like I have some kind of role it it | Jun 12 19:49 |
| schestowitz | F* Fink! | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > Okay, I guess what you're saying OS that the "I like what you're doing" | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > email is indeed authentic. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > Mm-boy, Roy. _Big_ mistake. Expect a lengthy posting to my blog, | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > syndicated to Planet GNOME, detailing all of this. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > Allow me to acquaint your credibility with the latrine, buddy. Bad call, | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > Roy: you should have taken my initial advice. I was annoyed, but now I'm | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | > angry. You won't like me when I'm angry, I promise you. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | "What you do" = Mono criticism. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | "What you do" != acting like a lunatic and attacking people. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | I am disgusted by people who smear via employers, having had people try to do this to me. Bear in mind that attacking someone in my first message to him ever is hard. I don't know who Fink is and if I attacked him, he'd potentially attack /me/ in public. Look how he's attacking everyone. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | So again: | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | "What you do" = Mono criticism. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | "What you do" != acting like a lunatic and attacking people. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Don't misinterpret this and think about the context. | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | The very fact that he forwarded that message just shows what a person he is. Had I said something bad to him, why would he not insult me in public? | Jun 12 20:13 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 12 20:14 |
| schestowitz | That idiot is continuing to do damage to everyone around him | Jun 12 20:14 |
| schestowitz | I'll do a post maybe | Jun 12 20:17 |
| trmanco | who wrote that? | Jun 12 20:23 |
| schestowitz | wait, see this.. | Jun 12 20:31 |
| schestowitz | >> I'm sorry david this got so bad, but Roy put me up to this and I dont | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | >> want any more trouble. see attached for proof. I would post the | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | >> private irc logs if I had them. plz dont sue me, I didnt want this | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | >> much trouble. also know I didnt report you to your boss. that was not | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | >> me! | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Wait a second........ "PUT ME UP TO THIS"? | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | He's lying to you. I never spoke to him. Is he pretending that I was in touch with him or something? | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | That's a LIE. I didn't notice this at first glance. | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | ===== | Jun 12 20:32 |
| schestowitz | So that Fink bastard got in trouble and he pretends that it was me | Jun 12 20:32 |
| trmanco | ... | Jun 12 20:36 |
| trmanco | when I first showed you the thread, I thought a good discussion would come from there, but I was wrong | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | >> I'm sorry david this got so bad, but Roy put me up to this and I dont | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | >> want any more trouble. see attached for proof. I would post the | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | >> private irc logs if I had them. plz dont sue me, I didnt want this | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | >> much trouble. also know I didnt report you to your boss. that was not | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | >> me! | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Mark, | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | What the HECK are you talking about??? | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | I never spoke to you before. I only now notice your message (quote). All you're doing is just incite people against me and the site by lying. Are you purposely doing this? | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | At first I thought you were raising issues with Mono, but now you throw crap everywhere -- David and me included -- in order to flame and put everyone at risk. | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Shame on you. | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: no | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | He tries to get the man fired or something | Jun 12 20:37 |
| schestowitz | That's why David came to speak to me | Jun 12 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Damn, this is infuriating | Jun 12 20:38 |
| schestowitz | He did this last year as well | Jun 12 20:38 |
| schestowitz | As Mark S replied to him | Jun 12 20:38 |
| schestowitz | He's inciting against us | Jun 12 20:38 |
| schestowitz | And I can't help wondering if it's a shill | Jun 12 20:38 |
| trmanco | I saw that too, but I let it go, it had nothing to do with my interest when those personal attacks came in on David | Jun 12 20:39 |
| trmanco | interests | Jun 12 20:39 |
| trmanco | yesterday or so I asked if you knew mark f and you said no, and that he already had caused problems | Jun 12 20:42 |
| schestowitz | I saw his name last year in the mailing list | Jun 12 20:44 |
| schestowitz | When the codec thing came up | Jun 12 20:44 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Way too little. Way too late. Read all about it on Planet GNOME and make your excuses there. | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | I'm done listening to this. You strike me as a duplicitous person who I beleve has lied to my face. I'm not a very good person to be doing that to, as you'll be discovering. | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Fink prep | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | *perp | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's time to start getting rid of trolls | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | I never lied. | Jun 12 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Lasttest comment in BN: "nigger" http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/12/smears-against-boycott-novell/#comments | Jun 12 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Must be the trolls trying a new strategy. DDOS, IRC cr*pflood, now this.. | Jun 12 21:53 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 12 22:00 |
| schestowitz | > Way too little. _Way_ too late. | Jun 12 22:00 |
| schestowitz | How is it too late? Don't you see what he's doing here. He's trying to piss on Ubuntu and when he gets in trouble he lies about it and attributes this to me. I've just done a search for "Fink" on the site and I see he left a few comments in the past. I never spoke to this guy until last night. | Jun 12 22:00 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 12 22:00 |
| schestowitz | What a total waste of time | Jun 12 22:01 |
| schestowitz | Frankly, I'm almost getting fed up | Jun 12 22:11 |
| schestowitz | DDOS was the worst though, by far the most emotionally exhausting :-S | Jun 12 22:11 |
| MinceR | http://nedroid.com/comic/comics/2008-08-19-beartato-freshing.gif | Jun 12 23:09 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Jun 12 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Someone has been looking to find out what the Fink troll is about... | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | Interesting. I didn't realize that there were also mailing lists for | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu. Oh well. Regarding MPFink, I see he's been posting weird stuff | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | since at least Feb 2008. Google doesn't really let people (or at least | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | not me) search for email addresses, so it's hard to find more. However, | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | his trolling does have a benefit of identifying the Mono guard. Some | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | of the replies are not any better than his rants and a few are worse. | Jun 13 14:20 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 13 14:20 |
| MinceR | http://failblog.org/2009/06/11/domestic-violence-fail/ | Jun 13 14:51 |
| schestowitz | God loves violence, according to the Holy Book | Jun 13 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Think about sacrifice too | Jun 13 14:54 |
| trmanco | what does LGTM mean? | Jun 13 15:10 |
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| trmanco | that ain't twitter right? | Jun 13 19:57 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: be careful | Jun 13 20:05 |
| trmanco | why? | Jun 13 20:06 |
| schestowitz | It's him, I can see now | Jun 13 20:25 |
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| trmanco | then why sin't he with his original nickname? | Jun 13 20:49 |
| trmanco | isn't | Jun 13 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Don't know | Jun 13 21:02 |
| schestowitz | But it's him | Jun 13 21:02 |
| schestowitz | false alert about Mono... | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> heh | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> I wasnt sureo you had ever seen it | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> :) | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> OMG you cant believe this!! | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> I removed firefox beta from fedora 11 right | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> now I want to add it to test a few things | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> guess what it NEEDS as dependencies | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> gtk-sharp2,,amoung several other sharp packages | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> OMFGosh | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> o_0 | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> I hope your seeing this | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> I find it shocking | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> and I gotta figure the dependency is not coming from upstream | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> but anyway | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> yeah, i'll post about it | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> kk thx | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> kkk | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> lol | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> sorry I dont know where I got into the habit of doing that :) | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> k ? :)<har-> | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> CRAP | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> OMG crap | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> in #bn | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | * [neighborlee] is away (bbs) | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> dont post about firefox..apparantly I was in hurry or something..clicked wrong package | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Phew | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> :-) | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> I guess I clicked 'b eagle' accidentily | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> NO IDEA why its showing up alongside firefox..I seached for firefox..not beagle | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> ODD | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> but anyway | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> PHEW yes | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> big phew | Jun 13 21:33 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> sorry ^^^ | Jun 13 21:33 |
| trmanco | lol | Jun 13 21:36 |
| schestowitz | I was gonna write about it | Jun 13 21:41 |
| trmanco | http://np237.livejournal.com/24065.html | Jun 13 21:43 |
| trmanco | this guy is making an idiot of himself | Jun 13 21:43 |
| trmanco | out of* | Jun 13 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> so better not to try then, I guess | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> btw I found two posts from Jo where he "clarifies" his accusations: | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/124/#comment-979 | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> http://www2.apebox.org/wordpress/rants/124/#comment-873 | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> just in case you wanted to know | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> (following his links reveals that his interpretation is completely distorted, but who cares about truth..) | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> not me | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> anonymous | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> I know | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> We NEVER____ delete comments. never. | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> I know that | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> here's Joss making a clown of himself: http://np237.livejournal.com/24065.html | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> hey, at least he got sense of humour | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | <nyu> too bad for him, he's uncapable of addressing any of the issues I raised, and people notice | Jun 13 21:57 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 13 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | Heh. | Jun 14 20:27 |
| schestowitz | > ot: why do you post your IRC logs, do you want to look stupid, do you | Jun 14 20:27 |
| schestowitz | > not have any common sense. Do you not realize you are making yourself | Jun 14 20:27 |
| schestowitz | > an easy target. You are not doing the cause any good .. !!!! | Jun 14 20:27 |
| schestowitz | PJ has comments. BN has comments. There is no censorship there either, so if one wants to dig up dirt -- as some of them do -- they can find it in comments, even if they arrive from others (potentially trolls). | Jun 14 20:27 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, oiaohm | Jun 15 10:01 |
| oiaohm | Hi schestowitz | Jun 15 10:02 |
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| trmanco | <nyu> hub: there's a race? | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <mether> with no way to set the priority manually | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <mether> nyu, yes | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <nyu> awful | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <hub> nyu: in that case somewhat :-) | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <nyu> hub: so there's a race with tomboy too? | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <mether> nyu, no. because t comes later | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <hub> nyu: yeah but it starts later, likely | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <hub> and loading mono take some time | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <nyu> ah, so tomboy works because mono is doggy slow | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <nyu> *g* | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <hub> because the startup order and time differs | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <hub> I'll just use that wording | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <nyu> hub: we need to call sleep() at startup | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <hub> nyu: no | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | <nyu> :-) | Jun 15 18:20 |
| trmanco | http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=581844#c10 | Jun 15 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 15 18:43 |
| schestowitz | ======= | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | @Anonymous #6: | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | No, I never spoke to him before (unless he used some other nym). As I explained to David before (David and I exchanged like 10 messages but he only quotes _one_ in isolation to increase drama value), the reason I was not _attacking_ Fink in my (first-ever) message to him is that he's obviously foul-mouthed and aggressive, so I don't want him on my back, too. It's also hard to slam someone who have been saying good things abo | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | ut you. | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | I think "Fink" is misguided. He doesn't like Mono, but he's doing more harm to the cause than anything else. | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | As I said before, people must stop thinking that everyone who links to the site has something to do with me. And he lied to David when he got scared, although I don't know the full story there. | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | Not everyone who links to Groklaw is 'pals' with PJ (even those who claim they are) and people who hang out in Slashdot are not necessarily buddies of Rob Malda. | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | This is a mountain made out of not even a molehill. I've nothing to do with it and I've hated it from the start (as you'll find in IRC logs). It's damaging to everyone. | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | David looks for someone to blame. It's a shame that he picks me as a scapegoat. And if he wants to believe this, then he'll piece together some things that seemingly /fit/ the hypothesis and present them separately, without broader context. | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 15 22:37 |
| schestowitz | This is such a time waster. | Jun 15 22:38 |
| schestowitz | See what I need to cope witjh? | Jun 15 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Some f*ing trolls use our name and now they hold ME (!!) accountablwe | Jun 15 22:38 |
| trmanco | :| | Jun 15 22:48 |
| trmanco | stupid anonymous comments | Jun 15 22:52 |
| trmanco | ... | Jun 15 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Could be Novellers | Jun 15 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Or the shills like OBrian | Jun 15 23:00 |
| trmanco | nobody can keep the exact track to who they reply to unless unless that person is always in contact | Jun 15 23:10 |
| trmanco | I speak for myself, I rarely remember the names of who write news posts, unless I keep constant contact with that person | Jun 15 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jun 15 23:21 |
| schestowitz | David knows he's wrong | Jun 15 23:22 |
| schestowitz | he's hiding our correspondence | Jun 15 23:22 |
| schestowitz | But he wrote that post on Friday | Jun 15 23:22 |
| schestowitz | And then he says, "too late" | Jun 15 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Never mind if I show him it's just some perp I have nothing to do with | Jun 15 23:22 |
| trmanco | there is also no date on that email | Jun 15 23:24 |
| trmanco | you sig seems outdated no? | Jun 15 23:24 |
| trmanco | you should stop feeding that zoo | Jun 15 23:28 |
| trmanco | it«s not worth it | Jun 15 23:28 |
| schestowitz | OK | Jun 15 23:33 |
| trmanco | that's just my opinion, you are free to do what you want, obviously :-P | Jun 15 23:34 |
| schestowitz | I'm done with it | Jun 15 23:42 |
| schestowitz | it's like when some kid kills a classmate and then people blame the band the kid listened to | Jun 15 23:42 |
| trmanco | it won't end for them just like that, I'm sure | Jun 15 23:42 |
| schestowitz | Waste of time | Jun 15 23:43 |
| schestowitz | I won't bother | Jun 15 23:43 |
| schestowitz | It only feed the "anonymous" | Jun 15 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Novellers | Jun 15 23:43 |
| schestowitz | No-one knows | Jun 15 23:43 |
| trmanco | I don't know what the point is hiding behind an anonymous tag... cowards, at least some nickname would have pleased me | Jun 15 23:43 |
| schestowitz | "anonymous coward" /. calls it | Jun 15 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Good for SCOers | Jun 15 23:44 |
| schestowitz | And PR people | Jun 15 23:44 |
| trmanco | heh | Jun 15 23:44 |
| trmanco | to bad ip's aren't shown | Jun 15 23:44 |
| trmanco | but they usually mean nothing | Jun 15 23:45 |
| schestowitz | DNS hardly handles novell.com IPs | Jun 15 23:51 |
| schestowitz | I had to manually decipher some of those | Jun 15 23:51 |
| schestowitz | Buh!! Stupid forgers./ | Jun 16 00:21 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 16 01:03 |
| schestowitz | Hello: | Jun 16 01:03 |
| schestowitz | I was the "anonymous" commenter who was trying to provide some balance and another point of view to the others in Herr Schlesinger's blog posting on the "Mark Fink" Ubuntu forums episode. Of course, I am not convinced that you did condone Mark Fink, only that you didn't pay enough attention to him. | Jun 16 01:03 |
| schestowitz | To me, he seems to be quite obviously a provocateur. If this episode proves to be too much a problem, then it might be worthy to consider posting the entire private correspondence between you and Herr Schlesinger. Then again, it might be worthy to consider ignoring it. :) | Jun 16 01:03 |
| schestowitz | "Mark Fink"? Sheesh, so obvious. "Provocateur" and "informer" are even in his "name". | Jun 16 01:03 |
| schestowitz | It has been a lie and s distraction. Fink" is poison. | Jun 16 01:04 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 16 09:18:06 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 16 09:18 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 16 09:18 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 16 09:18 | |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 16 09:36:47 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 16 09:36 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 16 09:36 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 16 09:36 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 16 11:10 | |
| MinceR | http://defiantdog.com/ | Jun 16 13:16 |
| *schestowitz looks | Jun 16 13:18 | |
| schestowitz | It don't do s*, man! | Jun 16 13:20 |
| schestowitz | And I enbled me[sic] JS | Jun 16 13:20 |
| schestowitz | JS fish | Jun 16 13:20 |
| MinceR | it's defiant :> | Jun 16 13:20 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | I don't know how to read the situation there as they (the West African students) tended to play their cards very close to their chest. However, it puts this oversight into context: | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/366578 | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure how a language would disappear from a cut-and-paste of ISO-639 list. Some from Ghana where real true-blue MSFTers, though it was hard to pick up on it at first since they were so secretive about it. Others seemed genuinely interested in learning. The latter are who I focused on, but I believe the former played a role in the problems at[ANON] - there appears to be now a witch hunt against FOSS to replace it wi | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | th MS version of FOSS e.g. #C for .NET on MS Windows but using *eclipse* that's open source | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | Leakes. | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | *ked | Jun 16 14:13 |
| schestowitz | http://robertmh.wordpress.com/2009/06/14/what-a-good-patent-covenant-looks-like/ | Jun 16 14:19 |
| MinceR | a good patent covenant looks like a patent license? :> | Jun 16 14:19 |
| oiaohm | The idea that there is nothing patent safe boy some of these guys are idiots. | Jun 16 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Its all in the licencing of the patents. | Jun 16 14:22 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> as usual, someone is probably pasting some quotes to some other chan | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> probably benJIman | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> <SOMEONE_WHO_IS_NOT_ON_THE_CHAN> *anon (n=f2f93bf5@2001:690:2380:7770:21b:24ff:fed0:3f98) has joined #boycottnovell | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> i said pasting to some other chan 'cause it is more probable than pvting to someone | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> either that | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> or read the blog post you made | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> hadn't noticed i was there | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> so disregard all this text :p | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> benjiman yeah | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Spy | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> SOMEONE_WHO_IS_NOT_ON_THE_CHAN read the blogpost after all | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> probably the link is circlating on novell related chans, probably | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> hum nope | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> he subscribes you :p | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> says he only likes your blog posts on Saturdays | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> xD | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> good marketing strategy I suppose | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> subscribe me once | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> they subscribe you to read the saturday's posts | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | <anon> and they'll at least look quickly through all posts :p | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 16 14:40 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> wtf, slashdot now: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/06/15/1251228/Mono-Squeezed-Into-Debian-Default-Installation | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Yeah | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Debian is Not Including Mono by Default, Yet < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/16/debian-not-including-mono/ > | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> it's not under discussion | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> Steve said (in that article, but also in other places): "In this case (as in so many in Debian), it's up to the people working in the area in question" | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> OK | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> Sam said in the article: "There was no discussion about the matter on any of the Debian mailing lists when I last looked at around 4am AEST today" | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> they can change minds | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> yes | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> it's not final | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> moulette flood #bn ATM | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> *floods | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> but almost | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> really? | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> we try to convence him | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> like 500 lines so far | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> *convince | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> what an asshole. I bet he's trying to collect quotes for his blog | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <anon> don't waste your time on him, it's impossible | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> OK | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 16 14:42 |
| schestowitz | Asus apologies for Linux notebook | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | "'Moments after sharing a news conference stage with Intel executive | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | vice president Sean Maloney and Microsoft corporate vice president, | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | OEM Division, Steven Guggenheimer, the chairman of Asustek, Jonney | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | Shih, demurred when asked about the Android Eee PC' | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | "Frankly speaking, the first question, I would like to apologize that, | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | if you look at Asus booth we've decided not to display this product," | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | he said. | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | "I think you may have seen the devices on Qualcomm's booth but | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | actually, I think this is a company decision so far we would not like | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | to show this device. That's what I can tell you so far. I would like | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | to apologize for that"" | Jun 16 14:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133813 | Jun 16 14:46 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 16 15:20 | |
| schestowitz | <nixed> I actually managed to have a conversation with Miguel de Icaza. | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <nixed> He had some very interesting things to say in regards to .NET licensing and Mono. | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Can you share? | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> in #bn? | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <nixed> Do I use pastebin? | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <nixed> To make it easier? | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> Yes | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> thanks | Jun 16 18:49 |
| schestowitz | <neighborlee> I got email from alo from gnome ML..Iwont share it unless he says ok..I was curious so I emailed him and yes he remains concerned over the whole mess | Jun 16 18:51 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 16 23:59 | |
| schestowitz | We have helpers now. | Jun 17 12:16 |
| schestowitz | "There's OCR on the two PDFs here (IIRC), but we need the full text to make an article. You may also want to add comments for me to embed (with attribution to "wallclimber")." | Jun 17 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Let the growth begin. | Jun 17 12:29 |
| schestowitz | Do me a favour and proofread with me. | Jun 17 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Me proofread not a good idea schestowitz | Jun 17 12:53 |
| oiaohm | I am a heavy dyslexia person I really depend on the spell checker to pick up problems. | Jun 17 12:54 |
| schestowitz | Have a look anyway. Just read it: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/17/steve-ballmer-crimes-vs-os2/ | Jun 17 12:57 |
| schestowitz | See if something funny comes up | Jun 17 12:57 |
| oiaohm | They need to improve there word wrap support but nothing stands out as wrong. | Jun 17 13:01 |
| oiaohm | But that feels stranglely the same with mono schestowitz | Jun 17 13:01 |
| schestowitz | Mono? How so? | Jun 17 13:05 |
| schestowitz | BTW, file wrapping is an issue I know about | Jun 17 13:05 |
| schestowitz | it's better not to have line breaks in the text because it's then easier toread. | Jun 17 13:13 |
| schestowitz | This one should be fun too (TODO): http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/plex_5401.pdf | Jun 17 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Mono cannot run all .net applications. | Jun 17 13:24 |
| oiaohm | Due to native .net applicatons able to do native calls. | Jun 17 13:25 |
| oiaohm | So mono has to run in wine so support some applications. | Jun 17 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Nice way to create something you can demo as failing on Linux really. | Jun 17 13:25 |
| MinceR | (flash) (video) (audio) http://freevlog.hu/video/21772.html | Jun 17 13:42 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 17 15:40 | |
| MinceR | so why do we keep Daemon* around? :> | Jun 17 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Some people like him | Jun 17 18:13 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm and _hitcham_ | Jun 17 18:13 |
| MinceR | how many? can't they just make a channel, something like #boycottnovell-trollzoo? | Jun 17 18:15 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Jun 17 18:17 |
| schestowitz | "Tom Bell will support the business lobby group's "biggest marketing/lobbying campaign to 'support free enterprise,' which the powerful business group believes is under attack by the Obama Administration."" http://www.prwatch.org/node/8411 | Jun 17 18:21 |
| MinceR | 222144 < _Hicham_> where is that DaemonMDV? | Jun 17 21:14 |
| MinceR | 222152 < _Hicham_> where r u? | Jun 17 21:14 |
| MinceR | 222156 < _Hicham_> show up! | Jun 17 21:14 |
| *MinceR facepalms | Jun 17 21:14 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah! | Jun 17 21:18 |
| schestowitz | I'd hate to ban ryan when his fans don't watch -) | Jun 17 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "David "Lefty" Schlesinger earns the title of "Dafty". I was hoping to | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | reason with Dafty, but then I saw it was a lost cause when he decided | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | to forget about "Mark Fink" because it could very well be true that | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | "Mark" was merely a "fink" in the American definition of the word and | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | that Dafty got played for a fool. He was simply looking for material | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | to confirm his prejudice and wasn't interested in hearing anything | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | else. Too bad. I was hoping that he had more integrity than that, | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | but I was wrong." | Jun 18 00:22 |
| schestowitz | "Is it also true that Dafty is a Mono advocate and he was one of the | Jun 18 00:23 |
| schestowitz | ones responsible for censoring reasonable (i.e. non "Fink") dissent in | Jun 18 00:23 |
| schestowitz | the Ubuntu forums? That would certainly explain his latest | Jun 18 00:23 |
| schestowitz | performance on BN. Also, if so and if you were like him, then you | Jun 18 00:23 |
| schestowitz | could simply censor his comments, eliminate the problem and he | Jun 18 00:23 |
| schestowitz | couldn't complain about it. I suspect he would complain anyway. :/" | Jun 18 00:23 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 18 00:27 | |
| schestowitz | > Hi Roy, Once again I had help doing this one. I was tied up with work | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > today, so I was grateful for my friend offering to help out. He didn't | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > ask for attribution, but I think he'd enjoy getting it. So, please | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > attribute the main typing to RCH. I did a quick read-through, but | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > another proofread will be needed (I know you always do :) Hopefully | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > there won't be too many typos. | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | Thank you, thank you, thank you. | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | Jun 18 07:27 | |
| schestowitz | > Also curious, has the big PDF outlining Microsoft's "Evangelism" tactics | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > been turned to text yet? | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I sent some to PJ and she did it, so it's now indexed by Google. | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | Jun 18 07:27 | |
| schestowitz | > Also, I read your emails regarding the troll from Seattle. I try to | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > catch up on the BN IRC logs at the end of the day every day, so I'm | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > familiar with the goons that disrupt your conversations. Sometimes it | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > reminds me of team tag, one quits and another one joins in...when they | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > don't just gang up at once. Sad, really. It just looks to me like | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > desperation, with a side order of meanness. They are an ugly bunch. | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | > I'm sorry you've had to deal with them so often. | Jun 18 07:27 |
| schestowitz | Someone tells me it's a good sign that we are interruption-worthy. We get about 7,000 unique visitors per day now. | Jun 18 07:27 |
| oiaohm | Got to do vpn homework. | Jun 18 08:21 |
| schestowitz | Homework? | Jun 18 08:23 |
| schestowitz | Or home work? :-) | Jun 18 08:23 |
| oiaohm | Design network for work. | Jun 18 08:39 |
| MinceR | 112556 <+Mocman> -One day Chuck Norris looked in the mirror and said "No one outstares Chuck!" He is still there to this day | Jun 18 10:21 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 18 14:14 | |
| schestowitz | re: Mono: "There's more to come later this month. Stay tuned." | Jun 18 17:14 |
| schestowitz | ======== | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | get rid of Firefox | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | We've buried $10,000 somewherre on the Internet and if you're the | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | first one to find it, you get to keep it. | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | But you'll never find it using old Firefox. (So get rid of it or get lost.) | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | .. | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | How will you know if you've found it? It's a cleverly concealed | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | webpage that only Internet Explorer 8 can view. | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.microsoft.com/australia/ie8/competition/ | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | ====== | Jun 18 20:46 |
| schestowitz | What a nice company | Jun 18 20:46 |
| trmanco | they also tell you to ditch standards | Jun 18 21:05 |
| trmanco | that was one of the clues | Jun 18 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Yeah. Well... | Jun 18 21:20 |
| schestowitz | We have Astruturfers today | Jun 18 21:21 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/17/steve-ballmer-crimes-vs-os2/#comments <- Windows users pretending to be Linux users | Jun 18 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Defending MS crimes | Jun 18 21:21 |
| *MinceR_ (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 19 08:59 | |
| *MinceR has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jun 19 09:11 | |
| *MinceR_ is now known as MinceR | Jun 19 10:09 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 19 10:53 | |
| MinceR | _Mutex_ should be shown to people in a cage | Jun 19 12:11 |
| schestowitz | He's fed | Jun 19 12:16 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 19 13:13 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 19 13:19 | |
| MinceR | sometimes i make the mistake of talking to the resident idiots | Jun 19 13:42 |
| MinceR | and every single time i regret it | Jun 19 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, you feed ryan | Jun 19 13:45 |
| MinceR | and you refrain from kickbanning him | Jun 19 13:46 |
| MinceR | i'm not the one feeding _Mutex_ though | Jun 19 13:48 |
| schestowitz | It would be used to discredit us | Jun 19 13:49 |
| MinceR | why do we listen to the opinions of people who are obviously full of shit and don't listen? | Jun 19 13:49 |
| MinceR | they'll think the same regardless | Jun 19 13:49 |
| schestowitz | Here's my idea | Jun 19 13:54 |
| schestowitz | If you ignore them -- which would make a difference as few actively participate -- then they'll get bored and leave | Jun 19 13:54 |
| schestowitz | It's when people give them luv ("hey, daemonfc, where are you????/") that they come back online and into #bn | Jun 19 13:55 |
| schestowitz | When they go on a monologue they hate it | Jun 19 13:55 |
| schestowitz | e.g.daemonfc | Jun 19 13:55 |
| schestowitz | Rambling hyperactivity | Jun 19 13:55 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 19 15:11 | |
| schestowitz | People feed the troll | Jun 19 16:13 |
| schestowitz | *sigh* | Jun 19 16:13 |
| schestowitz | I give up | Jun 19 16:13 |
| schestowitz | But I ignore that troll | Jun 19 16:13 |
| schestowitz | ========= | Jun 19 16:13 |
| schestowitz | Apache attack vector / Dafty / OS/2 demo criminality | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Since you seem to be a target of DoS attacks, you may be interested in | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | the following: | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Apache HTTP DoS tool released | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | http://isc.sans.org/diary.html?storyid=6601 | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Oh and about "Dafty": Jose_X did a pretty good job of trying to reason | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | with him along the same lines as my effort. It ended predictably. I | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | wonder if Dafty's idea was to deliberately troll BN on the theory that | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | he would get into a really senseless flame war with the regulars and | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | he could thus reproduce his experience with "Mark Fink" and "prove his | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | point." Unfortunately for him, that didn't work out too well. | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | Also, I agree with your characterisation of Microsoft's actions as a | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | whole as "criminal" even if, taken in isolation, the single act of | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | cooking up a way to crash OS/2 and show it widely is arguably not | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | criminal. The intent of the demonstration matters and, in the OS/2 | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | case, Microsoft's intent was to deceive. If not criminal, it is at | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | the very least hypocritical (i.e. my reaction is that it was also | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | trivially easy to crash Windows 3.x and no specially coded app was | Jun 19 16:14 |
| schestowitz | even necessary to accomplish that) and unethical. | Jun 19 16:14 |
| *MinceR has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jun 19 20:15 | |
| *MinceR (n=mincer@94-21-14-150.pool.digikabel.hu) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 19 20:18 | |
| schestowitz | <_Hicham_> where is that DaemonXP? | Jun 19 20:43 |
| schestowitz | <_Hicham_> show up! | Jun 19 20:43 |
| schestowitz | <_Hicham_> where r u hiding? | Jun 19 20:43 |
| schestowitz | *sigh* | Jun 19 20:43 |
| trmanco | what is so special about him? | Jun 19 21:30 |
| schestowitz | Nothing. | Jun 19 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Flood with junk messages | Jun 19 21:56 |
| schestowitz | To bore people, dilute | Jun 19 21:56 |
| trmanco | I see | Jun 19 22:45 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: above a given volume of people, there will _always_ be someone to feed the troll. | Jun 20 00:13 |
| MinceR | especially if more trolls appear and they start resonating. | Jun 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | The next kick (3rd) is a kickban | Jun 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | He'll trigger it | Jun 20 00:14 |
| *MinceR awaits eagerly | Jun 20 00:15 | |
| schestowitz | Second Turfer is in | Jun 20 00:39 |
| schestowitz | *sigh* | Jun 20 00:39 |
| schestowitz | I'll just ignore | Jun 20 00:39 |
| schestowitz | I need to rebuilt my kernel for this Webcam | Jun 20 00:41 |
| schestowitz | I think new distros support it out of the box | Jun 20 00:41 |
| schestowitz | I love this picture... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/19/china_to_recruit_internet_supervision_army/ | Jun 20 00:42 |
| MinceR | and that's how #boycottnovell will turn into ##microsoft. | Jun 20 00:46 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 20 01:05:51 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 20 01:05 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 20 01:05 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 20 01:05 | |
| *#boycottnovell-social :[freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | Jun 20 01:06 | |
| schestowitz | Mission accomplished | Jun 20 01:37 |
| schestowitz | BTW, did I miss anything in this channel while restarting KDE? | Jun 20 01:37 |
| MinceR | nope | Jun 20 13:34 |
| schestowitz | I resumed wiki work: | Jun 20 15:55 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges | Jun 20 15:55 |
| schestowitz | We had to change chat provider too, so less mibbit trolls :-) | Jun 20 15:55 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.freenode.net/2009/06/new-freenode-webchat-and-why-to-use-it/ | Jun 20 15:55 |
| schestowitz | The linsux brats came from there | Jun 20 15:55 |
| schestowitz | Maybe _Mutex_ too | Jun 20 15:55 |
| MinceR | i didn't know mibbit was so bad | Jun 20 15:56 |
| trmanco | cool | Jun 20 15:57 |
| schestowitz | Innocent victims: | Jun 20 15:57 |
| schestowitz | === | Jun 20 15:57 |
| schestowitz | Just wanted to send a quick update. The plex_0411 pdf is VERY hard to read, so it's taking some time to do, but we are making progress. | Jun 20 15:57 |
| schestowitz | Also, for some reason, I can no longer access BN's IRC. It all changed yesterday afternoon, since then whenever I try to login it just terminates me (hey, at my age, being terminated makes me very nervous...heh heh :) | Jun 20 15:57 |
| schestowitz | No big deal, really, I can just read the logs, but wondered if it was a problem for anyone else, or if it's just me (always the biggest possibility, I know). | Jun 20 15:57 |
| *trmanco_ (i=55f1e460@gateway/web/freenode/x-f124bd67855625a5) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 20 15:58 | |
| trmanco | well, it works | Jun 20 15:59 |
| trmanco | :) | Jun 20 15:59 |
| trmanco | trmanco_, ping | Jun 20 16:00 |
| trmanco | it beeps :-P | Jun 20 16:00 |
| *trmanco_ has quit (Client Quit) | Jun 20 16:01 | |
| MinceR | that article lacks information about what the problem with mibbit was. | Jun 20 16:02 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jun 20 16:17 |
| schestowitz | I reckon they lie | Jun 20 16:18 |
| schestowitz | And the new thing solvs nothing | Jun 20 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they'll monetise with ads | Jun 20 16:18 |
| schestowitz | I can run it off my server as well | Jun 20 16:18 |
| schestowitz | Just need to install Twister 0.7.8 | Jun 20 16:18 |
| schestowitz | *Twisted | Jun 20 16:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukZ2JwOoKf8&feature=rec-HM-r2 | Jun 20 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Good videos these... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eZn65G5Iu4&NR=1 | Jun 20 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Meh. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HaskpjbqOo&feature=fvw | Jun 20 21:05 |
| schestowitz | They trolls bog down the channel | Jun 20 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Maybe a mass kickban is in ordeer | Jun 20 21:22 |
| MinceR | indeed it is | Jun 20 21:23 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: "lusers" is _Mutex_ | Jun 20 21:34 |
| MinceR | mincer@stormwind(pts/8) % hex2ip.pl 3aa5aea4 | Jun 20 21:34 |
| MinceR | 58.165.174.164 | Jun 20 21:34 |
| MinceR | so he's ban evading now. | Jun 20 21:34 |
| trmanco | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Web-Servers-in-Danger-from-Low-Bandwidth-HTTP-DoS-114745.shtml | Jun 20 21:56 |
| schestowitz | <i heard | Jun 20 22:08 |
| trmanco | what makes you think he is a pr agent? | Jun 20 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Prior things | Jun 20 23:07 |
| trmanco | hmm, he actually participates on some linux and oss lists | Jun 20 23:09 |
| trmanco | participated* so that's why I'm asking | Jun 20 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Which ones? | Jun 20 23:27 |
| trmanco | if you search on google for him, you can see | Jun 21 11:19 |
| *Balrog has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) | Jun 21 12:30 | |
| *Balrog (n=BRBT@livecd.ist.temple.edu) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 21 12:30 | |
| schestowitz | "Some people who email you and post comments are not your friend. They are there to draw you into controversy, like the below. Stick to the facts. Don't engage in personal attacks. Don't engage in dialogue. Don't respond to abuse. Never apologize, never explain ..." | Jun 21 18:02 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Look at the audience smiling http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/microsoft-chief-scrambles-in-egg-attack-20090618-ck44.html | Jun 21 18:13 |
| schestowitz | MS PR person: Microsoft gives up YouTube chase < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10265858-56.html > That's worse than it sounded initially | Jun 21 18:23 |
| MinceR | :) | Jun 21 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Don't know if you noticed this, but the pro-Mono crowd use false accusations to smear me. It means they cannot attack the message, so they create means to attack messengers. | Jun 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Sam keeps up the good work. The more the pro-Mono crowd dislikes him, the better job he does. | Jun 21 19:25 |
| schestowitz | New: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/25799/1231/ | Jun 21 19:25 |
| trmanco | haha | Jun 21 19:40 |
| trmanco | I bet Icaza will be saying bad thing about that | Jun 21 19:40 |
| trmanco | "Shields makes a claim that Mono is hundreds of times faster than Python - but offers no benchmarks to back up this incredible claim." | Jun 21 19:41 |
| trmanco | lie, since when is mono faster than python... | Jun 21 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Jun 21 19:42 |
| trmanco | Gwibber which is a bloated microblogging client is faster to start up than the toy named tomboy | Jun 21 19:42 |
| schestowitz | It's a bad idea to quote bad numbers | Jun 21 19:42 |
| schestowitz | It'll come back to haunt them | Jun 21 19:42 |
| schestowitz | toyboy | Jun 21 19:43 |
| trmanco | lol | Jun 21 19:43 |
| trmanco | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mono_Shielding_the_facts | Jun 21 19:46 |
| schestowitz | But he name is Jo | Jun 21 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Not "Mono" | Jun 21 19:47 |
| schestowitz | *his | Jun 21 19:47 |
| trmanco | it's his maiden name :-P | Jun 21 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Jomo | Jun 21 20:06 |
| trmanco | heheh | Jun 21 20:29 |
| schestowitz | That last one was hard. | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Because this one was so tough to decipher (it could just be my bad eyesight that's the problem, but still...) I hope at least one (or even better two or more) other people read this over. I worked from a printout, using a magnifying glass, as well as from the original PDF open on my screen...however, I also took that original PDF into Ado. Illustrator, locked the original image down and scraped the horrible layer of OCR ga | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | rbage off of it, then enlarged the original image a bit, so I could reference that image too. It made it slightly clearer to my old eyes...but I still had to squint and cuss at it a lot. (who? Me? Cuss? :o) | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | In many places where the text in the original image was too hard to read in any of the reference copies, I just guessed at the word, and because the writer's style and phrasing was easy to grasp, I think I got a lot of it right. | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | However, I also understand that folks might see how bad the original scan is, and make a big deal out of BN posting a transcript that actually has words where, in the original, there's little more than a black smudge. | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | So, it really really needs a group of people to proof-read it and make sure that I didn't over-correct the smudgy parts (did that make sense?). | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Also, I just realized that I left out the "Confidential" stamps and other ID stuff at the bottoms of the pages. Sorry, my only excuse is eye and shoulder fatigue, and a slightly melted brain. (I am going to take a nap now :o) | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, here it is, in all its gruesome glory: plex_0411_A.PDF as text... | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | (It should certainly cause some interesting reactions when it's posted publically) | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | Better one coming.. | Jun 21 23:38 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/21/gimp-vs-fspot-in-ubuntu/ Canonical was hiring Microsoft employees and now they use Canonical to spread .NET in the form of Mono. They are hiring other Mono staff (gnome-do developer). | Jun 22 00:16 |
| schestowitz | "Also, I was hoping that someone might be able to take a stab at figuring out the last five names listed at the top of the email. I hate leaving those out of the published text. | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | The people this email was sent to were likely the same people as other emails were sent to during that time period - the usual suspects, so to speak. | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | So, after my nap I found another email list on the "px_0860.pdf" and DID match "mikehal" and "paulma" to the 5th and 6th names on plex 0411_A (see below). I'm also reasonably sure that the last two names are "riscpc" and "steveb". | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe someone else can find a match for the fourth name "jonchimk" - it could also be "joechizok"?. Do you, or any of the BN regulars know of any names of Microsoft people that might match/correct that one? If not, then it probably shouldn't be included at all (just put stars in place of it). | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, here's my guess at the names in the email list. | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | billg | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | bradsi | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | jeremybu | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | jonchimk (joechizok) | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | mikehal | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | paulma | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | riscpc | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | steveb" | Jun 22 02:20 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/comes-vs-microsoft/gates-exhibits/PX08256.pdf To go under the headline: Bill Gates: “Our Most Potent Operating System Competitor is Linux” | Jun 22 17:42 |
| trmanco | a troll just came in the #gnote channel | Jun 22 19:37 |
| trmanco | he had a UK hostname | Jun 22 19:37 |
| trmanco | he/she, don't really know | Jun 22 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Can you paste here? | Jun 22 19:39 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7089049919.html?kc=rss | Jun 22 19:41 |
| trmanco | sure | Jun 22 19:44 |
| trmanco | but don't make it public | Jun 22 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Oh wait | Jun 22 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Some put it in pastebin | Jun 22 19:44 |
| schestowitz | or never mind | Jun 22 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, there's gnote hatred | Jun 22 19:45 |
| schestowitz | I represents and poses a risk to c# fans | Jun 22 19:45 |
| trmanco | the guy seemed to be a c# fan | Jun 22 19:45 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i pulled all my .tomboy files and dropped them in .gnote AND it works! | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, yes, it would since gnote uses the same file format | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> mether, yes... but there was a disclaimer, on the gnote website or somewhere that i read, so i was happy that it woked out nice | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, disclaimer? can you point me to it | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> The file format is the same as Tomboy's Note Format. But there no warranties about Tomboy being able to read them. You have been warned. | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> http://live.gnome.org/Gnote | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, that means files created in gnote may not be read properly by Tomboy. the other way around should work just fine | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i see | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> if it is the same format why would it not work both ways? Why is it implying the risk is higher or existant only in one direction? | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> well atleast a while back | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> there was a bug | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> with tomboy crashing on a minor date formatting difference | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> what is 'syncing' ? | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <mether> copying notes between computers | Jun 22 19:46 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i read that gnote devs are working on it | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i see | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i hear C++ is a horrible language to program in? | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, obviously gnote developers disagree :-) | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> oh, i thought they might be doing it with gritted teeth, just to spite Tomboy... | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i thought it was universally accepted as fact that C++ aint beautiful code | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> but maybe it is relative and it really suits some | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, i dont think there is any spite involved and yes, different languages suit different purposes and tastes better | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> apparently mono makes nice tidy efficient code | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> mether, no spite? why go through the hassle of porting and recreating exactly the same application when it already exists and has a lot of active developers on it? | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, same reasons why you choose to use it? | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> don't follow you there | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | ah crap | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> you choose to use it, yes? | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> trying it out, yes | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> why are you interested | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> all your leading questions will not necessarily apply to why they put in hours of hours recreating an application | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> maybe. maybe not | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> i am curious why you are trying it out | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i'm curious why you don't think they are motivated by the fact that tomboy uses mono to invest a lot of time and energy recreating it... seems silly to deny that they are not motivated by some anti-mono agenda | Jun 22 19:47 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, well, I guess you already made up your mind. so no use asking | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> well, you've not given me reason and shared why you think otherwise, as you apparently do | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> how about you tell me why you are trying it out and I will tell you the other reasons why | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i'm just trying gnote coz its there-doesn't take me anytime to install it | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> i don't com into it | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> com? | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> don't compare me taking two seconds to install something that is there with the hours and weeks of time to copy-cat an application | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> come... <---- you could figure it out, no? | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> no | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> i dont come into it - doesnt make much sense | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> its interesting that you don't share why you think otherwise but choose to ask me questions that have no correspondence | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> no, i don't come into it | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> *shrug* | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> google would tell you easily | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/3822091/Striking-the-Right-Gnote.htm | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> http://lwn.net/Articles/331187/ | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> read it | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> what does me trying gnote out have to do with their motivation to re-do tomboy in C++ | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> ? | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> k | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, you must have had some incentive to try it out. it is odd that you dont want to talk about it | Jun 22 19:48 |
| trmanco | <hub> nyu: it is not pushed yet | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> hub, is there any particular reason the warning about not able to copy back notes from gnote into tomboy s | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> hub, is there any particular reason the warning about not able to copy back notes from gnote into tomboy should remain? | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> mether: why not? | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> so, according to the first blog he was just bored with nothing better to do... ok... | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, i think it is become more evident that you are here just to troll | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> mether, has it now? | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> hub, well if there is no reason to have that warning, we could remove it, I think | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, yep | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> livingdaylight: you know that talking about somebody at the 3rd person while said person is here is rude | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> mether: don't | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> hub, i have no idea that the said person is here | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> livingdaylight: see, you are even a troll | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> if you say so.... | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> AND that is a terrible thing of course | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> mether: unless you want to do a complete QA on the problem, the warning has to remain | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> hub, if you want me to test anything, I can. not sure what counts as complete QA. copying notes back and forth and editing them to test is relatively easy | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> mether, you could've just volunteered the articles in the first place... for which thx by the way | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> livingdaylight: the author wanted to see how doable it was to do to port from Gtk# to C++, and at the same time being able to have the feature provided by the app on a device with restricted space | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <mether> livingdaylight, you read something which wasnt even in the article. so i am not sure it helped you in any way | Jun 22 19:49 |
| trmanco | <hub> "<livingdaylight> i thought it was universally accepted as fact that C++ aint beautiful code" <- that is IMHO an uninformed troll | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> "In my attempts to fight my own boredom, as an unemployed hacker, I took on myself to do something: porting Tomboy to C++." | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> is that not in the article? | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> hub, what are you doing now? | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | <hub> http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2009/04/01/656-porting-to-cplusplus <- that's where it comes from | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | <livingdaylight> thx for the info guys... | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | livingdaylight> bye | Jun 22 19:50 |
| trmanco | * livingdaylight (~livingday@77-101-174-180.cable.ubr06.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) has left #gnote | Jun 22 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Weird.. | Jun 22 19:50 |
| *unpure (n=unpure@86-46-44-32-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 22 22:20 | |
| *unpure (n=unpure@86-46-44-32-dynamic.b-ras3.mvw.galway.eircom.net) has left #boycottnovell-social ("Konversation terminated!") | Jun 22 22:21 | |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 23 12:10 | |
| MinceR | http://pastebin.com/m5ae0a521 | Jun 23 12:33 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Jun 23 12:35 |
| schestowitz | # | Jun 23 12:35 |
| schestowitz | 134040 < piksi> the "liver transplant" jobs got wasn't a transplant | Jun 23 12:35 |
| schestowitz | # | Jun 23 12:35 |
| schestowitz | 134048 < piksi> it was a BALLMER-TRANSPLANT | Jun 23 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully job's returns he is a great char of IT. | Jun 23 12:36 |
| MinceR | what's great about him? | Jun 23 12:36 |
| schestowitz | Woman demoted for being a mum http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1405797/woman-demoted-mum | Jun 23 12:38 |
| oiaohm | I said char of IT. He does know how to tell some good jokes. Ok don't use mac but still would miss some of his warped answers to questions and the like at times. MinceR | Jun 23 12:38 |
| MinceR | i'd rather miss his warped answers if it would mean less support for DRM and less dumbing down of IT. | Jun 23 12:39 |
| schestowitz | Or not lying about it | Jun 23 12:39 |
| schestowitz | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,1000000308,39285828,00.htm | Jun 23 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Hannibal urges us to become vegan | Jun 23 12:40 |
| oiaohm | I still would prefer jobs as competition compared to Ballmer. | Jun 23 12:40 |
| MinceR | ballmer is no competition, he's an enemy | Jun 23 12:41 |
| MinceR | and so is jobs | Jun 23 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Both are enemies yes. At least jobs does not have you looking at the tv screen thinking why. | Jun 23 12:42 |
| MinceR | competition is about trying to provide a better/cheaper product | Jun 23 12:42 |
| MinceR | neither of them do that | Jun 23 12:42 |
| MinceR | ballmer tries to kill everyone in the market so that only he remains | Jun 23 12:42 |
| oiaohm | I am a PC adds MinceR | Jun 23 12:42 |
| MinceR | jobs tries to make people want shittier products instead | Jun 23 12:42 |
| oiaohm | From Ballmer even including him was very much why. | Jun 23 12:42 |
| schestowitz | Canonical licences 'satanists' selling Ubuntu-esque t-shirts < http://www.neowin.net/news/main/09/06/21/canonical-stops-satanists-selling-ubuntu-esque-t-shirts > Jono started reading me... | Jun 23 12:44 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i don't understand that. | Jun 23 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Remember the I am PC tv ads. | Jun 23 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Then the signfield ads. | Jun 23 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Baller track record on approving tv ads suxs. | Jun 23 12:45 |
| MinceR | as for the ubuntu thing, if being evil is bad then they should stop supporting the christian and muslim versions. | Jun 23 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Over jobs history he has approved a lot fo great ads. Including the ad breaking free of big corprate. | Jun 23 12:46 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i haven't seen much of those ads | Jun 23 12:46 |
| MinceR | i didn't care much about the m$/crApple shitslinging. | Jun 23 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Jobs will leave us with something worth while to display in history classes. | Jun 23 12:46 |
| oiaohm | At Ballers rate its going to be a person you talk about in passing. | Jun 23 12:47 |
| oiaohm | I take a very long term view of things MinceR | Jun 23 12:48 |
| MinceR | even then jobs' legacy will be a sad memory. | Jun 23 12:48 |
| MinceR | it will be a monument to human stupidity. | Jun 23 12:48 |
| oiaohm | At least there will be some nice videos to break up the borring history leason with jobs. | Jun 23 12:49 |
| schestowitz | "signfield" :-) | Jun 23 12:49 |
| schestowitz | singfield Freud.. | Jun 23 12:49 |
| MinceR | well, ballmer has provided at least one video too | Jun 23 12:50 |
| MinceR | "Dance Monkey Boy" | Jun 23 12:50 |
| oiaohm | I am not sure you could call that releated to history. | Jun 23 12:53 |
| schestowitz | It's his best known video | Jun 23 12:54 |
| MinceR | "these guys almost destroyed the IT industry" | Jun 23 12:54 |
| MinceR | i'd say that's history. | Jun 23 12:54 |
| schestowitz | His kids must have changed surname to distance themselves from that 'dad' | Jun 23 12:55 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8 Best apple ad I know of and its old. | Jun 23 12:56 |
| oiaohm | And you can have a lot of fun with it. | Jun 23 12:56 |
| MinceR | ironic considering how much crApple locks down everything | Jun 23 12:57 |
| MinceR | ibm wasn't big brother, it's crApple, m$ and google | Jun 23 12:58 |
| oiaohm | See fun for a history class. | Jun 23 13:00 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0FtgZNOD44&feature=related The matching presentation by steve jobs. You don't see computer releases like that any more. | Jun 23 13:02 |
| MinceR | yawn | Jun 23 13:05 |
| MinceR | "wow, it can scroll some text across the screen, let's all shriek and faint" | Jun 23 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Yet that was enough to get a crowd of people to respond as if its a great thing. | Jun 23 13:07 |
| schestowitz | Heh | Jun 23 13:07 |
| schestowitz | "Look! He pull a computer from a bag" | Jun 23 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Think that is 1984 MinceR | Jun 23 13:07 |
| schestowitz | *GASP* | Jun 23 13:07 |
| schestowitz | *pulls | Jun 23 13:07 |
| MinceR | well, it just shows that people were idiots even back in 1984 | Jun 23 13:08 |
| MinceR | a C64 did all that years before already | Jun 23 13:08 |
| MinceR | for less | Jun 23 13:08 |
| oiaohm | It kinda explains how everything got so badly screwed up. | Jun 23 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Even today doing a history lesons I can find places for jobs. | Jun 23 13:10 |
| MinceR | and the Sinclair QL did multitasking before jobs even knew what that was. | Jun 23 13:11 |
| oiaohm | With c64 and Sinclair history information shows how spoon feed the public was. | Jun 23 13:12 |
| MinceR | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/3642661392_893103fda0_o.jpg | Jun 23 13:13 |
| oiaohm | It is so true vegan can stuff there diet up far more simply than meat eaters. | Jun 23 13:14 |
| MinceR | i'm an omnivore but i found that pic funny/cool anyway | Jun 23 13:17 |
| schestowitz | Carnivore.. *LOL* | Jun 23 13:18 |
| oiaohm | If you want to go vegan the best people to talk to is buddhist monks they have only being doing it for a few thousand years without major problems. | Jun 23 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Do they live long? | Jun 23 13:25 |
| oiaohm | buddhist monks on adverage have longer life spans than there near by populations. Between fitness and diet and taking that serousally explains the difference. | Jun 23 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Talking to them you find out that vegan is not a simple selection there are a lot of foods you have to eat in correct combintions to stay healthy with vegan. | Jun 23 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Being omnivore is a far simpler path. | Jun 23 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Most of the correct combinations are to make differnet protens and the like in the body simpler to produce. Meat and fish provide simpler solutions to get protens. | Jun 23 13:33 |
| MinceR | and they taste good. | Jun 23 13:34 |
| oiaohm | They task good because you body is smart. You eat meat body does not have to do complex processes to make particular things. | Jun 23 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Also buddhist monks if you put a plate with meat in front of them and you did not know better they will still eat it and politely ask that next time you provide them with a meal without meat even provide a few receipes. | Jun 23 13:38 |
| oiaohm | Since they take it as there mistake for being served meat. | Jun 23 13:39 |
| MinceR | will they eat vat-grown meat once it's available? | Jun 23 13:43 |
| oiaohm | That is a interesting question. | Jun 23 13:43 |
| oiaohm | they have a issue with killing another living creature. Since vat-grown meat may never been a living creature it might pass the rules of buddhists. | Jun 23 13:44 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jun 23 13:44 |
| MinceR | though i don't know how difficult it is to switch the human body from vegetarian to omnivore and back. | Jun 23 13:45 |
| oiaohm | They do have issues with gm altered foods. | Jun 23 13:45 |
| MinceR | what's the issue with it? | Jun 23 13:45 |
| MinceR | i know what my issue is, but i doubt it's the same | Jun 23 13:45 |
| oiaohm | There issue is they have guide books how to eat safely and gm alters foods in ways they have never seen before and cannot predict out for a life time. | Jun 23 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Switching human body from vegetarian to omnivore and back is not that hard. | Jun 23 13:46 |
| MinceR | (my issue is that afaik GM foods are paired with a patented pest control chemical which makes the client locked to that provider) | Jun 23 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Note buddhist are more worried there life span might be shorted by gm foods. | Jun 23 13:47 |
| MinceR | i'm doubtful about such effects | Jun 23 13:47 |
| MinceR | but it isn't entirely unthinkable | Jun 23 13:47 |
| MinceR | if it was done right, GM foods could certainly be advantageous, but they aren't. | Jun 23 13:48 |
| oiaohm | for how control a vegetarian has to keep there diet to stay healthy the alterations in gm could stuff up there combinations of foods to eat to stay heathy. | Jun 23 13:48 |
| oiaohm | If you eat food made by buddist rules swapping is not that hard. My biggest problem is I truly do crave meat. Never been able to stay vegetarian long. | Jun 23 13:49 |
| oiaohm | The problem for buddhists is time it takes for them to confirm if something is safe or not. Its like 50 to 60 years at least. GM alterations are happening way faster than that. | Jun 23 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Basically we don't know enough about how humans will process chemicals from food long term to predict the long term effects of GM. | Jun 23 13:53 |
| MinceR | i don't see the point of the whole vegan thing | Jun 23 13:59 |
| MinceR | it's natural for animals to eat other animals. | Jun 23 13:59 |
| MinceR | humans are adapted to be omnivores. | Jun 23 13:59 |
| oiaohm | Buddist monks where is religion based. If you say you will not kill where do you draw the line. | Jun 23 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Humans are also adapted to be able to last long times without meat as well. | Jun 23 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Just that way takes more brians. | Jun 23 14:01 |
| MinceR | i don't say i will not kill. :) | Jun 23 14:01 |
| oiaohm | Out of all the people who live the vegan way about the only ones I get along with are the Buddists. | Jun 23 14:02 |
| MinceR | i figure i'd get along with any vegan as long as they don't want to change me :) | Jun 23 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Buddists don't try to change anyone. If you choose to follow there path so be it. | Jun 23 14:03 |
| MinceR | i've heard they're fine folks | Jun 23 14:04 |
| MinceR | at least compared to other religions | Jun 23 14:04 |
| MinceR | s/other/most other/ | Jun 23 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Also are nice about it. They dont expect you to produce a special meal for then and the like. If they know you wanting to do something particular they will even bring there own food. | Jun 23 14:05 |
| oiaohm | The push vegan that expects you do do them a a vegan meal and a meal for everyone else pisses me off. | Jun 23 14:06 |
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| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 23 18:35:52 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 23 18:35 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Jun 23 18:35 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz at Mon Mar 16 02:04:07 2009 | Jun 23 18:35 | |
| *Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connect | Jun 23 18:35 | |
| schestowitz | American shoppers misled by greenwash, Congress told < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/21/green-environment-ecology-congress-us-supermarkets > | Jun 23 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Canonical is getting a little nervous now, wanting to phone me to control what I write :-) I got a message from Jono Bacon half an hour ago. | Jun 23 20:54 |
| schestowitz | > BTW, you need a "netbook" tag. I think that Microsoft has totally | Jun 23 20:58 |
| schestowitz | > overreached in the netbook world, and your tag "hardware" is just too | Jun 23 20:58 |
| schestowitz | > general for people to follow the specifics of the netbook thread. | Jun 23 20:58 |
| schestowitz | > | Jun 23 20:58 |
| schestowitz | > http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090619161307529 | Jun 23 20:58 |
| schestowitz | I'm planning indexes, built using the Wiki. First I'll do Comes of Gates, Ballmer and others. There's a paradise of smoking gun lined up here. | Jun 23 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | "However, if any of my questions DO help point out something to you that you also find interesting, then please feel free to write about it and explain it in your own words. That way I can learn more too. | Jun 24 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Also, I will go ahead and "textify" the attachments soon. The reason being that if you are aiming to accumulate a searchable database of all the Comes exhibits, it wouldn't be complete without the attachments. They look like very interesting pieces of information. " | Jun 24 15:12 |
| schestowitz | Yes, most visitors use our 10,000 or so archival pages. We outgrew Groklaw. | Jun 24 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Meh. My mom hardly knows anything about computers, but now she knows how to mass-mail me powerpoint presentations. It won't stop !! :-) | Jun 24 17:07 |
| MinceR | 195255 < Phyl_Nincs> <RST38h> When I bought 14.4kbd modem, TELNET and FTP became so lightning fast... | Jun 24 18:37 |
| MinceR | 195255 < Phyl_Nincs> <jaem> what sort of lightning do you have where you live, then? | Jun 24 18:37 |
| MinceR | 195255 < Phyl_Nincs> <lcuk> the sort that used to buffer before striking | Jun 24 18:38 |
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| MinceR | re lenti: the ip address is completely different though | Jun 24 22:49 |
| MinceR | i was wrong | Jun 24 22:50 |
| MinceR | same ISP | Jun 24 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Ha | Jun 24 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | Novell may not survive for much longer | Jun 25 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Maybe no longer than this year | Jun 25 00:12 |
| schestowitz | MS is the Big Fish.. People learn about this nonsense only with experience. PJ for example learned a lot about FOSS, despite a paralegal background. We used to correspond daily, but she took the foot off Groklaw's throttle. | Jun 25 00:12 |
| schestowitz | MS will take a few more years. | Jun 25 00:12 |
| schestowitz | SCO still refuses to die. | Jun 25 00:12 |
| schestowitz | I can probably afford more time writing. I personally diverged a little bit away from programming (my trained profession); it has become too common a skill to be perceived as a valuable one. The US suffers from offshoring for similar reasons of knowledge as a commodity. | Jun 25 00:13 |
| schestowitz | I guess I'll do BN for a few more months, hopefully a year. I'm getting better at it. | Jun 25 00:14 |
| schestowitz | But still.. we're all noobs at 90%+ of the things -- cooking, astronomy, computers, etc. There are no exceptions besides those who know how to pretend like my boss, a Professor with an OBE and endless self pride. [I'm reminded of that old cliche about 90% of the couples having arguments and the other 10% just pretending not to.] | Jun 25 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Anyhoo... | Jun 25 00:15 |
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| schestowitz | No OCR for this one, but it would be nice to extract the text from it one day (low priority though) http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/OEM_hit_list | Jun 25 10:33 |
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| trmanco | "* Word and PowerPoint output tons of stuff that only looks good in IE due | Jun 25 10:44 |
| trmanco | to the shared line layout code and bugs in other browsers implementation of | Jun 25 10:44 |
| trmanco | CSS (which is essentially an IE-specific feature)" | Jun 25 10:44 |
| MinceR | css is an ie-specific feature now? :> | Jun 25 12:03 |
| trmanco | well, according to billyg yes | Jun 25 12:04 |
| trmanco | wait, that isn't from billyg, I tink it's some MS employee | Jun 25 12:04 |
| schestowitz | He says MS built/contributed the most to Web standards | Jun 25 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Said this in 2007 IIRC | Jun 25 13:12 |
| MinceR | i'm sure they invented the interned and the web after they realized their m$n walled garden failed :> | Jun 25 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Iranian hackers attack the US < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1406095/iranian-hackers-attack-us > | Jun 25 14:10 |
| MinceR | s/ned/net/ | Jun 25 14:14 |
| schestowitz | Public grilling for Gordon Brown and Tony Blair in Iraq inquiry < http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/23/public-iraq-inquiry-blair-brown > | Jun 25 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | "I continue to follow a particular blog which promotes healthy foods and argues against cheap, bull well-advertised unhealthy foods, which are mostly produced by multi-national corporations. I notice a consistent trend. He seems to have a regular poster there named "Derek" who apparently name shifts and tries hard to distract attention away from the blog's main points. Here is the latest example: | Jun 25 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Food Marketing: Impacts on Consumer Choice | Jun 25 15:09 |
| schestowitz | http://everytable.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/food-marketing-impact-on-consumer-choice/ | Jun 25 15:09 |
| schestowitz | Just FYI -- no relation to BN apart from the example of shills (and I'm betting professional ones) in action." | Jun 25 15:09 |
| schestowitz | The likes of Edelman hire people for such jobs. BN suffers from some MS/Novell trolls, some working directly for the company. | Jun 25 15:09 |
| MinceR | ban them | Jun 25 15:10 |
| MinceR | or redirect them to another forum on the site called something like "Shill Corner" :> | Jun 25 15:10 |
| schestowitz | == | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | "MS won't offer the upgrade route to EU users and no doubt blames the EU commission. Except the EU never ordered them to do that, they said remove the browser. MS in typical mode, is misleadingly removing the upgrade option so as the EU gets the blame. | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | ------- | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | See the upgrade page in FF and iExplorer, they look different and uses Silverlight. Interoperability my arse :0 | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windows7/archive/2009/06/25/announcing-the-windows-7-upgrade-option-program-amp-windows-7-pricing-bring-on-ga.aspx | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/offers/upgrade.aspx | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Get a load of Jack Shillfield | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jun/25/windows7-uk-prices " | Jun 25 15:11 |
| schestowitz | This morning I spent 4 hours organising exhibits and one smoking gun that I found is 1 page long and is a massively important reference: Bill Gates: "Security as a lock in" < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/px06105.pdf > | Jun 25 17:16 |
| MinceR | http://www.thewesternnostril.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/27009bubbles-copy.jpg | Jun 25 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Bah. | Jun 25 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Regarding http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/25/ombudsman-posted-complaint-text/ : "We also stepped on a real scandal here . Rue de trone 4... Unbelievable. Microsoft lobbying is headquatered there. So is Taylor Wessing! *lol* Do we have access to any mainstream press? We also have the parliament committee amendment where the MEP covered his corruption up. We need to collect the facts first, I want it in a high profile print | Jun 25 21:18 |
| schestowitz | magazine as Der Spiegel. That will finish Lehne." | Jun 25 21:18 |
| schestowitz | "We can put a lot of spin in there, like American multinationals writing EU position papers, and SME underrepresentation." | Jun 25 21:18 |
| schestowitz | "I personally prefer dedicated fact collection pages for that. Sourcewatch is excellent but they do not cover the EU. There is also had http://www.microturfs.org/ " | Jun 25 21:19 |
| schestowitz | "I have a lot of content. Ideally I would like to see a kind of "Lobbypedia" or "eurowatch" as Sourcewatch, with Mediawiki as the engine. I also know how to get sustainable funding but all of that needs some work and a team willing to work on the project. Also all this content can be used and further developedwhich is currently hosted at LaQuadrature: http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Political_Memory " | Jun 25 21:19 |
| schestowitz | We're getting close and the Microsoft ecosystem does take notice. Let's just keep the trolls out. The Mutex nym is gone. | Jun 25 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | have you seen this one yet? http://blogs.computerworld.com/digg_dug_buried_how_linux_news_disappears To Microsoft, this is war. | Jun 26 00:06 |
| oiaohm | The game is getting hot. | Jun 26 00:07 |
| schestowitz | I'll do the next Comes in the morning. Here are two new ones about Linux: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/px08604.pdf http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/px07378.pdf | Jun 26 00:09 |
| schestowitz | "It will be VERY interesting to see what responses there are to your complaint to the Commission. I hope it kicks off a tidalwave of complaints, too many for the Commission to ignore. " | Jun 26 00:09 |
| schestowitz | "It does seem that hostilities are warming up these days, doesn't it? I remember how bad things got just before Vista was released, it's likely to be MUCH worse this time. Desperation makes them mean...isn't Win/Vista 7 due out in October? MS's hired hands probably have a mandate to close as many secret deals as possible this summer, they've also got to kill as much uptake of ODF as possible." | Jun 26 00:10 |
| schestowitz | "If I remember correctly, "7" was originally due out in early 2010, but the date was pulled back to fall of '09. When I heard it I thought to myself that it's their attempt to overshadow Ubuntu's next release. I also think a lot of the escalating pro-mono hostility is aimed at killing the Koala for MS, from the inside. It's all quite ugly, but also fascinating (and infuriating!) to watch." | Jun 26 00:10 |
| schestowitz | "I believe that's why making Comes V MS exhibits available to the world, in searchable format, is extremely important. Those documents are like a road map that very clearly shows the anti-competitive path MS has taken. I love those exhibits because they explain in plain language that ordinary people can understand." | Jun 26 00:10 |
| schestowitz | "Plus it's very easy to point to current behavior and compare it to those old documents, and show people how very relevant and effective those "old" strategies still are. If MS think their customers don't care, they are very mistaken." | Jun 26 00:10 |
| oiaohm | Basically if windows 7 was not released before Ubuntu they will not have any special feature to demo. | Jun 26 00:10 |
| oiaohm | Only special feature Windows 7 has is multi touch. | Jun 26 00:11 |
| oiaohm | If they left it to 2010 they may also be facing off against a Linux kernel with ram error correction. | Jun 26 00:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically MS must release early and pray windows 7 works. | Jun 26 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Yes, it sucks | Jun 26 00:12 |
| schestowitz | it's lots of hype IMHO | Jun 26 00:12 |
| schestowitz | Koala's thunder is an issue | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu should change date | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | To escape the Vista7 slog | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | It was the same when MS announced 32% dip in earnings | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | Same day as Ubuntu release IIRC | Jun 26 00:13 |
| oiaohm | Do a google. | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | It won't work well | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | No money | Jun 26 00:13 |
| schestowitz | 'Free' upgrade | Jun 26 00:13 |
| oiaohm | Don't publicly change the date. Release early. | Jun 26 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Just to block Linux | Jun 26 00:14 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: or later | Jun 26 00:14 |
| schestowitz | I need to do lots of Comes before I take a vacation | Jun 26 00:14 |
| schestowitz | President of OSI is like a friend of the site. He collects those. | Jun 26 00:14 |
| schestowitz | There might be lawsuits | Jun 26 00:14 |
| oiaohm | There are other distributions that can hit before windows 7. | Jun 26 00:15 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is targeted before windows 7 release date. | Jun 26 00:15 |
| schestowitz | They can run, but they can't escape punishment (I'd hope for prison) | Jun 26 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Feedora 12- December | Jun 26 00:15 |
| schestowitz | As usual, before cxmas | Jun 26 00:15 |
| schestowitz | I always remember Moonshine when I think about the Xmas party we had | Jun 26 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Linux matured a lot | Jun 26 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Windows went backwards | Jun 26 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Mac been similar through OS 10.x series | Jun 26 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Linux still has a long way to go. | Jun 26 00:16 |
| schestowitz | And they drop zfs | Jun 26 00:16 |
| schestowitz | i.e. they stay with crapfs | Jun 26 00:16 |
| oiaohm | cuse + realtime support could also allow alsa and oss to be removed from kernel space. | Jun 26 00:17 |
| oiaohm | widefox.pbworks.com << I am looking forward to his update. I am fairly sure feature wise 2.6.30 Linux kernel has basically run the windows nt kernel under. | Jun 26 00:19 |
| schestowitz | Puppet gets millions. http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?RSS&entryid=2299 | Jun 26 00:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/px08604.pdf These are the last two Linux exhibits I have at hand. I post the texts also in other places and the trolls are going bonkers, which means it's effective. | Jun 26 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/974_signs.jpg | Jun 26 10:56 |
| oiaohm | lol | Jun 26 10:59 |
| schestowitz | UK cop accuses colleagues of waterboarding pot suspects http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/06/09/london-police-waterboarding-pot/ | Jun 26 11:03 |
| schestowitz | Stupid zombies flood one site of mine: | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | It looks like a lot of zombie PCs. From awstats: | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | Hosts : 5812 Known, 1779 Unknown (unresolved ip) | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 7585 Unique visitorsPagesHitsBandwidthLast visit | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 89.248.168.937106710616.36 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | hosted-by-jmhservices.com6440644014.83 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:48 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | php15.nasza-klasa.pl6062606213.96 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | hosted-by.i3d.net5716571612.76 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:50 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | static.88-198-3-10.clients.your-server.de5353535321.76 MB25 Jun 2009 - 15:44 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 213.163.65.1775324532411.85 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:48 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | serv1.extremedhost.org4553455310.48 MB22 Jun 2009 - 00:41 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 93.174.93.583584358416.72 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:44 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 94-76-213-204.static.as29550.net346534657.61 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 83.233.30.10316431646.95 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 195.88.32.66263326335.68 MB25 Jun 2009 - 18:46 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | no.rdns-yet.ukservers.com2456245625.53 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | static.213-239-200-199.clients.your-server.de231223127.25 MB24 Jun 2009 - 10:29 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 8323316588-host.servainet.com220822089.63 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 93.174.93.2001866186618.46 MB25 Jun 2009 - 17:17 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 89-149-208-29.internetserviceteam.com155815583.42 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:51 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 93.174.93.102130113015.45 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:36 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | static.88-198-43-228.clients.your-server.de129612967.82 MB17 Jun 2009 - 14:21 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 94.142.128.222126012602.83 MB24 Jun 2009 - 13:34 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 83.233.30.159121912192.69 MB06 Jun 2009 - 19:29 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 89-149-242-25.internetserviceteam.com106810682.46 MB25 Jun 2009 - 19:52 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 83.233.30.35106210622.38 MB04 Jun 2009 - 23:04 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 89.248.160.241104010402.53 MB12 Jun 2009 - 18:50 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | sesiones.prodigy.net.mx9809802.15 MB25 Jun 2009 - 16:53 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | 74.50.117.969209203.52 MB24 Jun 2009 - 16:49 | Jun 26 13:27 |
| schestowitz | I fear it'll overrun bandwidth soon. I blacklisted some of these. | Jun 26 13:27 |
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| schestowitz | "cj" works for Microsoft. He's here to promote Mono and Moonlight like any MS employee would do | Jun 26 16:50 |
| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_frm/thread/29940e686f6a5196/8a5c9afa46c08dbf?lnk=raot#8a5c9afa46c08dbf | Jun 26 17:02 |
| schestowitz | You'll see the trolls. :-) | Jun 26 17:02 |
| schestowitz | "...and the trolls are going bonkers, which means it's effective." | Jun 26 17:04 |
| schestowitz | It's funny, you'd think they'd understand that making so much noise and fuss only brings more attention to the whole thing. But I guess they gotta earn their pay. | Jun 26 17:04 |
| schestowitz | Also, I was surprised to read about ACT being based in Scottsdale, AZ. That's a considerable drive from here, but sometime it might be fun to go to that address and see if it's a real office. I don't know if you have such a thing where you live, but here there are "mailbox" places that sell addresses to companies, where they can get mail, but there's no actual office. | Jun 26 17:04 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O9cYTZXekA&feature=related | Jun 26 17:30 |
| schestowitz | pwnage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs3RKZjSzYg&feature=related | Jun 26 20:34 |
| MinceR | hm, zilog is from bigpond too | Jun 27 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Linsux troll Sean | Jun 27 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Ignore please | Jun 27 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Jeeesus. Fox is mad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPtiZGKE--Y&feature=related | Jun 27 19:49 |
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| fewa | EEDavidBurg is a troll | Jun 27 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Of coruse | Jun 27 22:42 |
| schestowitz | He's from Linsux | Jun 27 22:42 |
| schestowitz | See how much energy is now spent defending Apple? | Jun 27 22:52 |
| schestowitz | That's why the trolls reduce signal by turning it to another /. | Jun 27 22:52 |
| fewa | yep | Jun 27 22:52 |
| fewa | what does your cousin think of the Baca bill H.R. 1846? | Jun 27 22:54 |
| schestowitz | I don't know | Jun 27 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I hardly speak to him | Jun 27 22:55 |
| fewa | it is payday loans right? | Jun 27 22:55 |
| fewa | "check cashing business" | Jun 27 22:55 |
| schestowitz | I heard about it in some Canadian TV show | Jun 27 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I think | Jun 27 22:57 |
| fewa | probably not | Jun 27 22:57 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Gutierrez#Payday_lending_legislation | Jun 27 22:57 |
| schestowitz | "H.R. 1214 would cap the annual percentage rate (APR) for payday loans at 391 percent in the 23 states where it is now allowed to exceed 391 percent.[6]" | Jun 27 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Well, just 400% | Jun 27 22:58 |
| schestowitz | What can ever go wrong? | Jun 27 22:58 |
| fewa | its not as if credit card companies dont do that to people with late fees, retail fees, credit fees, and conversion fees | Jun 27 23:08 |
| MinceR | we should really kickban trolls instead of ignoring them. :> | Jun 27 23:33 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: which one/s? | Jun 27 23:34 |
| MinceR | EDavidBurg | Jun 27 23:34 |
| MinceR | 005027 < fewa> MinceR, ignore the troll when he gets deperate for attention | Jun 27 23:34 |
| fewa | <EDavidBurg> I'd like to think my argument has left you speechless, but it's probably more likely that your tirades in response are not yet complete. | Jun 27 23:35 |
| schestowitz | If they have a discussion it's hard to ban them | Jun 27 23:36 |
| schestowitz | It would look bad | Jun 27 23:36 |
| schestowitz | Mutex just whispered FUD | Jun 27 23:36 |
| MinceR | in their eyes we look bad anyway | Jun 27 23:36 |
| fewa | meh | Jun 27 23:40 |
| fewa | if he shuts up voluntarily its better | Jun 27 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Jun 27 23:43 |
| MinceR | if. | Jun 27 23:43 |
| schestowitz | I'll unban ryan | Jun 27 23:43 |
| MinceR | getting more trolls to revitalize the discussion? :> | Jun 27 23:43 |
| MinceR | (if that can be called "vital") | Jun 27 23:44 |
| schestowitz | I can't even remember who's who in the ban file | Jun 27 23:44 |
| MinceR | better leave them there, then. :> | Jun 27 23:44 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: he won't be back. But it'll make it clear that we're more fair | Jun 27 23:44 |
| MinceR | they'll never believe us to be fair | Jun 27 23:45 |
| schestowitz | Besides, whack-a-hole is fun to play | Jun 27 23:45 |
| MinceR | and even if they did, they won't say so | Jun 27 23:45 |
| MinceR | if they had a point, they wouldn't resort to this. | Jun 27 23:45 |
| schestowitz | _goblin feeds trolls a lot | Jun 27 23:55 |
| schestowitz | Also in twitter and in his blog | Jun 27 23:56 |
| schestowitz | he interrogates them | Jun 27 23:56 |
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| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/ccfff13d1cda08b1 | Jun 28 12:20 |
| trmanco | hey look | Jun 28 12:20 |
| trmanco | I'm from south america now | Jun 28 12:20 |
| schestowitz | "> Yes, I'm aware of that, but it's wholly irrelevant to my argument. I am | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > not claiming, nor have I ever claimed, this software is not available | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > under different licenses. | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > The point I take issue with is Novell's interpretation of non-LGPL use, | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > which as I indicated, would preclude LGPL distribution on something as | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > innocuous as a LiveCD. There is absolutely /nothing/ in the LGPL which | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > precludes distribution on inherently immutable systems, so this clause | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > is a "further restriction", as explicitly prohibited under the LGPL. | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > Therefore Moonlight is explicitly non-Free software, regardless of any | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | > > potential patent threats. | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | non-LGPL use means just that: use under terms other than the LGPL. If | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | you don't like or don't want those terms, you can convey those in the LGPL | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | instead. | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | Notice they also want to support distribution on tivoized systems, not | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | just inherently inmutable ones. But this is not LGPLv3, so such wording | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | is unnecessary. Maybe Novell's legal department is paranoid, or | Jun 28 14:03 |
| schestowitz | incompetent (or both)." | Jun 28 14:03 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jun 28 14:35 | |
| schestowitz | "Yes, I completely understand that, and I'm not sure why you think I | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | don't, or why it is even relevant. | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | Distributing LGPL software on inherently immutable systems is /not/ | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | "non-LGPL use". Period. Novell's assertion is a lie. | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | The fact than Novell wish to fool people into seeking non-LGPL | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | licensing, where it is totally unnecessary, is quite palpable, but that | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | does not make their assertion true. I don't care that other licensing is | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | available as an option. I don't care that I (or others) may distribute | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | and use this software on immutable systems *if* we/they are fooled into | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | accepting a proprietary license. The fact that "other licenses are | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | available" is completely and utterly irrelevant. Novell is perverting | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | the meaning of the LGPL, and abusing that bastardisation to "sell" the | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | false premise that Moonlight is Free Software, when it clearly is not. | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 14:46 |
| schestowitz | It's not paranoia. | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | Let me solve the mystery for you. | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | Novell need to force, through licensing, distribution of Moonlight in a | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | manner in which they can *guarantee* it will be updated with a certain | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | specific component that /they/ push to users - something not possible on | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | immutable systems. And on immutable systems, Novell can ensure this | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | mysterious component is either preinstalled, or paid for in lieu anyway | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | (at ISV level), due to their "non-LGPL use" redefinition clause. | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | Guess what that component is, where it comes from, and why Novell "need" | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | Moonlight users to deploy it. | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/c019725eaf150dc7?dmode=source | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | Yes, that's right, it's Microsoft's pet monkey pushing yet more of their | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | proprietary and encumbered standards down Free Software users' throats | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | again. Not content with poisoning us with their .NET Silverlight | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | (Moonlight) garbage, they also want to coerce us into accepting their | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | proprietary licensed, patent encumbered media codecs, via a "push" to | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | all Moonlight users to install "MICROSOFT MEDIA PACK 1.0". | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | *That* is the /real/ reason for all this "we consider non-LGPL use..." | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | nonsense. *That* is why these systems /need/ to by mutable, so they can | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | install this "media pack" at Microsoft's behest. De Icaza and friends | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | are simply trying to force people to install proprietary Microsoft | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | codecs. No doubt this is in fact part of the "arrangement" de Icaza has | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | come to with the Vole, in order that they tolerate this Silverlight | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | "Cloneware" from Novell. Although I deeply suspect that there is little | Jun 28 14:48 |
| schestowitz | coercion on either side. Novell and Microsoft now have the same agenda. | Jun 28 14:48 |
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| trmanco | it's time to show my appreciation for mozilla and firefox | Jun 28 17:25 |
| trmanco | I'm building a single page with a vid and then a link to download firefox 3.5's final release | Jun 28 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Nice. | Jun 28 17:25 |
| trmanco | when firefox 3.5 hits final, I'll redirect all my visitors to that page for 24 hours | Jun 28 17:26 |
| trmanco | :-) | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | There is no record-breaking attempt | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Save the energy | Jun 28 17:26 |
| trmanco | no record | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | I thought about it last nigth | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | They won't run for it | Jun 28 17:26 |
| trmanco | just something mine | Jun 28 17:26 |
| trmanco | promote open video | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | If they had, they'd miss the last target and then disappoint | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | [I think] | Jun 28 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Also less to see in 3.1 (aka 3.FIEV) | Jun 28 17:27 |
| fewa | schestowitz, most users will auto-update a few weeks after the release | Jun 28 17:38 |
| fewa | and hardly even notice | Jun 28 17:38 |
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| schestowitz | I really think this should be analized by a lawyer. | Jun 29 12:44 |
| schestowitz | Not sure if it's DDOS or just a mad bot | Jun 29 12:44 |
| schestowitz | More like DDOS | Jun 29 12:45 |
| schestowitz | But not sure yet. | Jun 29 12:45 |
| trmanco | http://blog.davebsd.com/2009/06/28/five-steps-to-vanquish-mono/ | Jun 29 12:45 |
| trmanco | icaza posted this | Jun 29 12:46 |
| trmanco | on twitter | Jun 29 12:46 |
| MinceR | pft | Jun 29 12:47 |
| schestowitz | Isn't this the gnome-do developer? | Jun 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | He works for Canonical now | Jun 29 12:48 |
| schestowitz | The other Mono farm | Jun 29 12:48 |
| trmanco | I have no idea | Jun 29 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's another guy | Jun 29 12:50 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure | Jun 29 12:50 |
| MinceR | so canonical completely bought into mono already? | Jun 29 13:01 |
| trmanco | it is him | Jun 29 13:08 |
| trmanco | http://do.davebsd.com/ | Jun 29 13:08 |
| schestowitz | The Six Dumbest Ideas in Computer Security < http://www.ranum.com/security/computer_security/editorials/dumb/ >. Sounds like Windows defined. | Jun 29 13:14 |
| MinceR | also osx. | Jun 29 13:19 |
| schestowitz | Hacked with one key and no scroller | Jun 29 13:20 |
| schestowitz | OT: http://www.ehponline.org/members/2009/117-6/focus.html | Jun 29 13:26 |
| schestowitz | Nice picture: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-07/ff_facebookwall | Jun 29 13:28 |
| schestowitz | saving freedesktop.org together http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/06/saving-freedesktoporg-together.html "freedesktop.org is in really bad shape. There, I said it. Most of us knew it, but now it's been said. The good news is that it's rescuable. The even better news is that people want to rescue it, and some are actually doing things to make it happen." | Jun 29 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Call to arms. | Jun 29 13:49 |
| schestowitz | GNOME is busy integrating with .NET, not KDE | Jun 29 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Gnome was anti intergration before .net appeared. | Jun 29 14:18 |
| oiaohm | They have always been the hardest to get to the intergration table. | Jun 29 14:19 |
| MinceR | was it? | Jun 29 14:19 |
| oiaohm | I have dealing on and off with gnome and kde developers over intergration since 1995 MinceR | Jun 29 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Kde developers will always be at the table to talk integration. They understand the importance fact it can save future development costs. | Jun 29 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Gnome developers it can some times be impossable to even get them to sit down and talk to the other windows manager and application developers. | Jun 29 14:21 |
| oiaohm | Last one was a year ago trying to get desktop lock down in kde and gnome done the same way. | Jun 29 14:22 |
| oiaohm | http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/ Hopefully this does some good. | Jun 29 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | krens smells like a yuhoung/daemonXX-like troll | Jun 29 20:15 |
| schestowitz | FUDding Linux and creating Vista buzz | Jun 29 20:15 |
| MinceR | do what must be done. do not hesitate. show no mercy. | Jun 29 20:18 |
| schestowitz | "Hi, Roy, | Jun 29 21:17 |
| schestowitz | I am reminded in this piece by the efforts that MS has gone to in | Jun 29 21:17 |
| schestowitz | preventing interoperability even with interoperability specifications | Jun 29 21:17 |
| schestowitz | like ODBC: | Jun 29 21:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.firstsql.com/ioodbc4.htm | Jun 29 21:17 |
| schestowitz | I see that G. Michaels is attacking. Jo Shields did the same. MSFTers | Jun 29 21:17 |
| schestowitz | always do that when on the ropes. Keep up the good work." | Jun 29 21:17 |
| fewa | ethics fascism: http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/intellectual-property-law-patent/12358642-1.html | Jun 29 21:21 |
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| trmanco | who is riley scott? | Jun 30 11:28 |
| schestowitz | No idea. Anyone else..? | Jun 30 11:30 |
| trmanco | check twitter | Jun 30 11:31 |
| trmanco | I'm sure he sent you the same message? | Jun 30 11:31 |
| trmanco | something about marti | Jun 30 11:31 |
| trmanco | it looks like somekind of a bot | Jun 30 11:33 |
| schestowitz | Weird | Jun 30 11:33 |
| trmanco | somebody posted a message on cola and the subject lines contained @@ | Jun 30 11:33 |
| oiaohm | riley scott is almost as bad as john smith. | Jun 30 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Its not a rare name. | Jun 30 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | Good news. Comes comes handy. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | "There's what could be a wealth of historical information in civil case court exhibits. Unfortunately, in the federal court system, one year after a case is no longer subject to further appeal, the court clerks send around notices to the parties. The notices inform them that it is time to archive the case records and that they're going to destroy the exhibits. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | They give the parties something like 30 days to pick up their own exhibits if they want to keep them. Suspect that the system is a bit different on the criminal side of case records since an imprisoned defendant may always file for a writ of habeas corpus that would revive the need for the court to review the record of the case leading to conviction and sentencing. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Or at least that's the way it worked at the time of my retirement. May be changing now that documents can be filed in electronic format. Can't remember whether it was in the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure or in 28 U.S.C., but there were also rules about whose case exhibit records become the official record should a case be revived after the court's copies of exhibits are destroyed. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | I recall that in cases in which the government was a party, it's the Feds' copies of exhibits that become the court record's exhibits. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Which is probably why DoJ has the U.S. v. Microsoft case trial exhibits archived on its web site. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | But the sheer volume of historical records removed from the public domain by destruction of case exhibits is nothing short of staggering, the kind of stuff that records how people actually behave rather than the facade they project to the world. Destruction of court records should be a felony crime, in my book. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | For example, historians' largest body of written evidence of what life was like in the first century or so of the Massachusetts Bay Colony is the court records that survived. They're frustratingly terse, somewhat akin to a modern clerk's docket entries. Ditto for the history of medieval England. | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | You do a huge public service by preserving and making more accessible the Microso | Jun 30 20:00 |
| schestowitz | ..accessible the Microsoft trial exhibits." | Jun 30 20:00 |
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