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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 12th, 2010

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*_Goblin has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)Aug 12 00:01
cubevectorI set up Linux boxes for family membersAug 12 00:04
cubevectordual boot in some casesAug 12 00:05
schestowitzDual personalitiesAug 12 00:05
cubevector"I don't insist on dumping Windows all together but recent experience is making me think twice as the Ubuntu install with updates took about 2 hours while the Win XP install took one whole day"Aug 12 00:05
cubevectorwindows sucks more and more the older your computer isAug 12 00:06
schestowitzWow. I wrote about 25 posts todayAug 12 00:06
cubevectordrivers disappear, or become very difficult to findAug 12 00:06
schestowitzMy record is 27Aug 12 00:06
cubevectorthen there's these sites that claim to find you any driverAug 12 00:07
cubevectorwaste of money (and time)Aug 12 00:07
cubevectorwouldn't be too hard to blog about the defiencies of doze but I'd rather blog about the good things in LinuxAug 12 00:08
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Apple renaming AppleTV to iTV... funny, I've been calling it that as an insult for years now; also, it can't do 1080p 12 00:08
cubevectorit's really passé to talk about how much windows sucksAug 12 00:09
cubevectoreventually I'll reach the point that I don't even remember using it :)Aug 12 00:11
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] A sort of frog creature with enormous sums of money. 12 00:38
amarsh04on a Linux Journal message board: "Failure is not an option, it comes bundled with Windows..."Aug 12 01:12
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*Wulf-is-not-here is now known as WireWulfAug 12 01:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Sun Rises In The Morning, Sets At Night, And Viacom Appeals YouTube Ruling 12 02:27
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Yawn. Good-night #Linuxcon. Most attendees just back in from a 3-hour trip around Boston harbor.Aug 12 03:45
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Why Aren't More Companies Sued For Bogus 'Unlimited' Service Claims? 12 05:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] Moglen's right on Bilski, wrong on Open Invention Network. If it worked, why do so many companies pay #patent royalties on Linux? #LinuxConAug 12 05:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] Eben #Moglen always talks about #patent royalties but never about the actual problem: exclusionary strategic use such as by IBM. #LinuxConAug 12 06:05
cubevectorwow, that was a bit odd but it workedAug 12 06:23
cubevectorwasn't sure quasar would work via sshAug 12 06:24
amarsh04senator Conroy has mentioned the g word - gigabit internet accessAug 12 06:25
amarsh04 12 06:32
MinceRi forgot a lot about how much winblows sucked until i had to use it againAug 12 06:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] What an awesome day. Playing music, surrounded by awesome an encouraging people who love music and being creative. Happy Bacon. :-)Aug 12 06:33
amarsh04which version?Aug 12 06:33
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MinceRxpAug 12 06:35
cubevectorfor work I assume?Aug 12 06:36
MinceRyesAug 12 06:36
cubevectorwell, at least they pay you :)Aug 12 06:37
cubevectorcouldn't get k3b working over sshAug 12 06:38
cubevectorjust ended up using mkisofs and cdrecordAug 12 06:38
cubevectorit's good to stay in practise with the command line tooAug 12 06:38
schestowitz"I guess open suse is trying to promote its backend lol " 12 06:44
Diablo-D3schestowitz: erm....Aug 12 06:46
Diablo-D3why dont I get naked women on my birthday? :<Aug 12 06:48
MinceRi wonder if the anti-free software trolls love novell enough not to make an issue of thisAug 12 06:51
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] RT @olpc Lubang Island (Philippines) needs an open-source hacker/integrator this fall for their kids+teachers! 12 07:11
*WireWulf is now known as Wulf-is-not-hereAug 12 07:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell Still Uploads Many Videos to YouTube; OpenSUSE News and Expansion of #OpenSUSE Boosters Team Effort #suseAug 12 07:32
schestowitz "Unfortunately for Stallman’s thesis, the world is built in shades of grey. vtiger’s open source comments beg more questions. In the email, Vtiger was quick to say that.."Aug 12 07:52
schestowitzHow they oversimplify the issueAug 12 07:52
schestowitz"Stallman’s remarks need to be seen in context; he comes from a perspective that sees these issues purely in black and white: Proprietary software bad; open source good."Aug 12 07:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Portugal Gives Itself a Clean-Energy Makeover - some hopeful signs #cleanenergy #portugalAug 12 07:54
amarsh04I noticed in that recent RMS interview that in his visit to Australia in October that he will be visiting Mount Gambier. A state school there (Grant High School) is one of the few state schools in Australia that has made extensive use of Free software.Aug 12 07:57
amarsh04it would be good to hop down there but it's nearly 400 km away.Aug 12 07:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Wave fans set up protest site They can fork #wavefailAug 12 07:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Free Technology Academy working to offer more Free Software online teaching - "shared development" #freesw #educationAug 12 07:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Viacom To Google: We Are Appealing The YouTube Decision - unsurprising, if pointless #copyright #googleAug 12 08:00
schestowitzamarsh04: you can get the video insteadAug 12 08:01
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TechrightsBotHello World!Aug 12 08:02
TechrightsBotTitle: Main Page - Techrights .::. Size~: 37.55 KBAug 12 08:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Lightspark is a Nifty Open Source Flash Alternative - so how does this compare to Gnash? #flash #opensourceAug 12 08:02
TechrightsBotTitle:  Lightspark is a Nifty Open Source Flash Alternative  .::. Size~: 38.19 KBAug 12 08:02
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schestowitzogg files crash TechrightsBot for some reasonAug 12 08:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Why computer programs should not be patentable – In easy-to-understand terms - "every program is just a number" #swpatsAug 12 08:17
TechrightsBotTitle: Why computer programs should not be patentable  In easy-to-understand terms. »  The Blog From Hell .::. Size~: 194.15 KBAug 12 08:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Stranded Wave users can use [via @nhi ]Aug 12 08:18
TechrightsBotTitle: Welcome - PyGoWave Server .::. Size~: 7.05 KBAug 12 08:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Californians' income sees 1st decline since WWII #economicsAug 12 08:23
TechrightsBotTitle: Californians' income sees 1st decline since WWII .::. Size~: 82.65 KBAug 12 08:23
schestowitz 12 08:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Chaos in U.S. markets on trade deficit, global data .::. Size~: 87.18 KBAug 12 08:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @jwildeboer RT @olpc Lubang Island (Philippines) needs an open-source hacker/integrator this fall for their kids+teachers! http://bit ...Aug 12 08:24
schestowitz 12 08:25
TechrightsBotTitle: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.14 KBAug 12 08:26
schestowitz 12 08:26
TechrightsBotTitle: Oakland Tribune (AP) Online .::. Size~: 58.99 KBAug 12 08:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] What Happened to Yahoo - must-read piece: "Yahoo was the beneficiary of a de facto pyramid scheme" #yahoo #hackersAug 12 08:26
TechrightsBotTitle: What Happened to Yahoo  .::. Size~: 17.86 KBAug 12 08:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Apple Confirms They’re Not Trying To Kill Third-Party Apps With Patents - no, of course not... #apple #patentsAug 12 08:27
TechrightsBotTitle:   Apple Confirms Theyre Not Trying To Kill Third-Party Apps With Patents  .::. Size~: 73.25 KBAug 12 08:27
schestowitz 12 08:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Red Hat alert RHSA-2010:0616-01 (dbus-glib) [] .::. Size~: 15.53 KBAug 12 08:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] E=mc2? Not on Conservapedia - hilarious - where do they find these people? #science #cobblersAug 12 08:32
TechrightsBotTitle: E=mc2? Not on Conservapedia - opinion - 11 August 2010 - New Scientist .::. Size~: 56.87 KBAug 12 08:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Libel Tourism Law Official... Including Important Nod To Section 230 Safe Harbors - surprising but welcome #libelAug 12 08:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Libel Tourism Law Official... Including Important Nod To Section 230 Safe Harbors | Techdirt .::. Size~: 27.56 KBAug 12 08:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody What Happened to Yahoo - must-read piece: "Yahoo was the beneficiary of a de facto pyramid scheme"Aug 12 08:37
TechrightsBotTitle: What Happened to Yahoo  .::. Size~: 17.86 KBAug 12 08:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @glynmoody That article on software patents makes points that we programmers like but don't solve any problem under substantive patent law.Aug 12 08:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] @FOSSpatents maybe, but I think it gets the point across to non-programmers quite wellAug 12 08:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] @FOSSpatents above all, it emphasises the central point: software patents should not exist...Aug 12 08:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @glynmoody It doesn't get the point across to those who have to define patent law or patentability guidelines in terms of line-drawing.Aug 12 08:42
schestowitz 12 08:46
TechrightsBotTitle:  Is the Linux Kernel In Trouble?  .::. Size~: 37.98 KBAug 12 08:46
schestowitzSensationalismAug 12 08:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Another Embarassment For French 'Three Strikes' Agency... As Someone Beats Them To Filing For Trademark 12 08:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Another Embarassment For French 'Three Strikes' Agency... As Someone Beats Them To Filing For Trademark | Techdirt .::. Size~: 20.95 KBAug 12 08:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] @FOSSpatents maybe, maybe not; but if gets the point across to enough of their constituents, it will still help the situationAug 12 08:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @glynmoody It's just a philosophical reasoning and decision-makers don't care about that in a context of economic/innovation policy.Aug 12 08:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @glynmoody Ultimately the decision-makers will be told by industry that patents are needed and abolishing swpat kills many other patents.Aug 12 08:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] @FOSSpatents it doesn't supplant arguments based on economics, just provides a further perspectiveAug 12 08:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @glynmoody The article's perspective is nice but it's politically ineffective and the author doesn't seem to know substantive patent law.Aug 12 08:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Copyright Boss Refuses Debate with Pirate Bay Co-Founder - so he'd refuse to meet Nelson Mandela, too? #copyrightAug 12 08:54
TechrightsBotTitle:    Copyright Boss Refuses Debate with Pirate Bay Co-Founder  | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 61.22 KBAug 12 08:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Android Beats #Ubuntu and #Linux #brand of Linux gets replaced with othersAug 12 08:55
TechrightsBotTitle: Android Beats Ubuntu and Linux  | Muktware .::. Size~: 17.03 KBAug 12 08:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kernel Log: 2.6.36 development and new stable kernels and drivers going strong, being trolled by ZDNet nowAug 12 08:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Kernel Log: 2.6.36 development and new stable kernels and drivers - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 37.54 KBAug 12 08:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Adobe Still Shafts #Linux With H.264 GPU Decoding why proprietary is bad for you. #AdobeTrashAug 12 09:10
TechrightsBotTitle: [Phoronix] Adobe Still Shafts Linux With H.264 GPU Decoding .::. Size~: 18.61 KBAug 12 09:10
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 12/8/2010: #KDE Integrates Webkit, #Android Popularity Soars 12 09:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 12/8/2010: KDE Integrates Webkit, Android Popularity Soars | Techrights .::. Size~: 137.6 KBAug 12 09:41
schestowitz 12 09:49
TechrightsBotTitle:             Capmark Creditors Ask Court's Permission to Sue Citigroup, Goldman Sachs - Bloomberg           .::. Size~: 53.07 KBAug 12 09:49
MinceRgeekingsAug 12 09:52
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] How Companies Can Keep their Programmers Happy - by letting them play with free software #hackers #programmingAug 12 10:05
TechrightsBotTitle: Blogs - Technology Blog and Community from IT Experts  - .::. Size~: 50.56 KBAug 12 10:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google executive buys 'spy drone' amid claims it will be used for Street View I'm thinking about the #1984 movieAug 12 10:19
TechrightsBotTitle: Google executive buys 'spy drone' amid claims it will be used for Street View - Telegraph .::. Size~: 52.71 KBAug 12 10:19
oiaohmschestowitz: Of course it willAug 12 10:35
oiaohmYou think of all the spy tech google has already made.   schestowitzAug 12 10:35
oiaohmUnder the label streetviewAug 12 10:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Sony Ericsson to introduce Android 3.0 gaming platform and PSP Go-like smartphone = more innovation in Android spaceAug 12 10:37
TechrightsBotTitle: Exclusive: Sony Ericsson to introduce Android 3.0 gaming platform and PSP Go-like smartphone -- Engadget .::. Size~: 219.32 KBAug 12 10:37
schestowitzoiaohm: yeah..Aug 12 10:38
schestowitzThey could maybe profile what places you look at... for advertisersAug 12 10:38
schestowitzAre they yet doing listings for home on sale?Aug 12 10:38
schestowitzI can't recall if it's in progress, rumoured, or doneAug 12 10:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Why should companies be allowed to sue for libel? - what for? hurt feelings...? #libel #ukAug 12 10:39
TechrightsBotTitle:  Why should companies be allowed to sue for libel? | David Allen Green | Comment is free |  .::. Size~: 91.09 KBAug 12 10:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody Sony Ericsson to introduce Android 3.0 gaming platform and PSP Go-like smartphone = 12 10:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Exclusive: Sony Ericsson to introduce Android 3.0 gaming platform and PSP Go-like smartphone -- Engadget .::. Size~: 219.3 KBAug 12 10:41
oiaohmI know of a few reistates that use model helicopters with digtal cams to take air shots of properties already.  schestowitzAug 12 10:42
oiaohmReally it would have been more fun if streetview had stuck to there tradition of building everything in house.Aug 12 10:43
schestowitzIs that elgal?Aug 12 10:43
schestowitz*legalAug 12 10:43
oiaohmYes it is by the way schestowitzAug 12 10:43
schestowitzdrones in your property?Aug 12 10:43
oiaohmYep.Aug 12 10:44
oiaohmEven into public space is allowed to a point.Aug 12 10:44
oiaohmOnly when you start using them to snoop are you legally in trouble.Aug 12 10:44
schestowitz 12 10:44
TechrightsBotTitle: Mozilla Firefox 4 Beta Release Notes .::. Size~: 39.85 KBAug 12 10:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Firefox 4 Beta 3 is released Looks greatAug 12 10:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Mozilla Firefox 4 Beta Release Notes .::. Size~: 39.85 KBAug 12 10:46
oiaohmThe scary thing here is metal storm the weapon company has already go to the level of turning something the size of a large remote helicoper into a flying weapon.Aug 12 10:47
schestowitzConventional wars with 'smart' weaponsAug 12 10:50
oiaohmMetalstorm goal yes goal.  Is called force multiplied.Aug 12 10:52
oiaohmBasicallly design weapon systems that a single solider has the hitting force of a complete unit if not more.Aug 12 10:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MAP OF THE DAY: Check Out The New Cable System Revolutionizing Africa That Could Cost Companies Millions #africaAug 12 10:53
TechrightsBotTitle: MAP OF THE DAY: Check Out The New Cable System Revolutionizing Africa That Could Cost Companies Millions .::. Size~: 117 KBAug 12 10:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Canonical explain the new Ubuntu census package Canonical's hire from Microsoft explains why...Aug 12 11:00
TechrightsBotTitle: Canonical explain the new Ubuntu census package - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 33.52 KBAug 12 11:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The same guy Canonical hired from Microsoft defended sending search to Microsoft ('Yahoo') and now census... 12 11:03
TechrightsBotTitle: The Raving Rick: Can we count users without uniquely identifying them? .::. Size~: 73.73 KBAug 12 11:03
oiaohm 12 11:04
TechrightsBotTitle: Release notes for the Genode OS Framework 10.08 &mdash; Genode Operating System Framework .::. Size~: 46.75 KBAug 12 11:04
oiaohmGallium3D is starting to spreed.  schestowitzAug 12 11:04
schestowitzvmware?Aug 12 11:06
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Fund Manager Tries To Figure Out Whether Microsoft's Business Will Collapse "I have now changed my laptop to a linux"Aug 12 11:06
TechrightsBotTitle: A Fund Manager Tries To Figure Out Whether Microsoft's Business Will Collapse .::. Size~: 171.92 KBAug 12 11:06
oiaohmGenode independant to vmware.  Aug 12 11:07
oiaohmBut the promise of Gallium3d to help to level the os out there is now showing more signs it might happen.Aug 12 11:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] And I have finally managed to install Plone! I all I was missing was python-dev! :PAug 12 11:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] And I have finally installed Plone4rc1! All I was missing was python-dev! :PAug 12 11:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @omar_s_hafez new site?Aug 12 11:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ♺ @eff: A Review of #Verizon and #Google's Net Neutrality Proposal #p #fsf #libreplanetAug 12 11:26
TechrightsBotTitle: A Review of Verizon and Google's Net Neutrality Proposal | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 25.61 KBAug 12 11:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] Obama administration trying to press charges agains Assange-#Wikileaks 12 11:48
TechrightsBotTitle: WikiLeaks' Julian Assange Could Face Criminal Charges from U.S. Allies - The Daily Beast  .::. Size~: 294.44 KBAug 12 11:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @serk01 Obama administration trying to press charges against Assange-#Wikileaks > and Cheney?Aug 12 12:02
TechrightsBotTitle: WikiLeaks' Julian Assange Could Face Criminal Charges from U.S. Allies - The Daily Beast  .::. Size~: 294.44 KBAug 12 12:02
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 12/8/2010: #Jolicloud Reviews, #OLPC Deployments in the #Philippines !techrightsAug 12 12:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 12/8/2010: Jolicloud Reviews, OLPC Deployments in the Philippines | Techrights .::. Size~: 123.31 KBAug 12 12:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 12/8/2010: #Jolicloud Reviews, #OLPC Deployments in the #Philippines #techrightsAug 12 12:04
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 12/8/2010: Jolicloud Reviews, OLPC Deployments in the Philippines | Techrights .::. Size~: 123.31 KBAug 12 12:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Unprecedented warming in Lake Tanganyika and its impact on humanity - not good #africa #climatechangeAug 12 12:06
TechrightsBotTitle: Unprecedented warming in Lake Tanganyika and its impact on humanity «  Climate Progress .::. Size~: 62.53 KBAug 12 12:06
schestowitz Skype used to lose billions 12 12:12
TechrightsBotTitle: Skype’s SEC filing reveals huge revenue swings .::. Size~: 102.37 KBAug 12 12:12
schestowitzThey seem to be on the green nowAug 12 12:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Department for Communities paid for massages, chauffeurs and trip to Blackpool pleasure beach - isn't #opendata fun?Aug 12 12:14
TechrightsBotTitle:  Department for Communities paid for massages, chauffeurs and trip to Blackpool pleasure beach | Politics |  .::. Size~: 224.34 KBAug 12 12:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] NHL Team Offers 'Bid On Your Own Price' Season Tickets 12 12:21
TechrightsBotTitle: NHL Team Offers 'Bid On Your Own Price' Season Tickets | Techdirt .::. Size~: 20.88 KBAug 12 12:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Just saw my credit card bills, eken m001 Netbook cost me INR 5724. (including shipping and tax)Aug 12 12:48
schestowitz 12 12:56
TechrightsBotTitle: Firefox browser update brings multitouch to Windows 7 | VentureBeat .::. Size~: 46.97 KBAug 12 12:56
schestowitzGetting a little Windows biased thereAug 12 12:56
schestowitzDirectX stuff tooAug 12 12:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] I support Eric Pickles - & and I support @tom_watson supporting him (via @cyberdoyle) #opendataAug 12 12:56
TechrightsBotTitle: I support Eric Pickles | Tom Watson MP .::. Size~: 28.99 KBAug 12 12:56
oiaohmmultitouch offical form is not merged into X11 yet.Aug 12 12:57
oiaohmMozilla does already have the code when it does go offical.Aug 12 12:57
schestowitzBut still...Aug 12 12:57
schestowitzWhat about plasma?Aug 12 12:57
schestowitzI saw it has multitouch support for Vista 7Aug 12 12:57
schestowitzWhat about Linux?Aug 12 12:57
oiaohmX11 multitouch interfaces are in the MPX merge.Aug 12 12:58
oiaohmThat is not merge X11 mainline yet.Aug 12 12:58
oiaohmIe not firefox fault there.  schestowitzAug 12 12:58
oiaohmDirect X bit if you want to pick a bone with them go ahead.Aug 12 12:59
schestowitzdaemon was the one shouting over itAug 12 13:00
schestowitzAnyway, I gotta runAug 12 13:00
oiaohm  << note the date schestowitzAug 12 13:00
oiaohmThat is the first draft with a 30 day delay for comments before it can go mainline at the earliest.  schestowitzAug 12 13:01
oiaohmWine developers are watching this insanely closely.   Xi2 will allow wine developers to fix many mouse errors wine has.  schestowitzAug 12 13:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Vodafone backs down in Android row - interesting question of control #android #vodafoneAug 12 13:10
TechrightsBotTitle: BBC News - Vodafone backs down in Android row .::. Size~: 50.75 KBAug 12 13:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @fabsh OMG Ubuntu on Nautilus Elementary: "it's a cool Finder clone!" Why on EARTH would ANYBODY want to clone the FINDER???? Serious ...Aug 12 13:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Cave miners close to connecting three British counties underground - wow: "100 miles of limestone tunnels" #ukAug 12 13:34
TechrightsBotTitle:  Cave miners close to connecting three British counties underground | UK news | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 64.37 KBAug 12 13:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Is climate change burning Russia? - "Climate change will continue to push temperatures" #russiaAug 12 13:40
TechrightsBotTitle: Is climate change burning Russia? - environment - 12 August 2010 - New Scientist .::. Size~: 55.03 KBAug 12 13:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] ACTA Meeting Expands to Full Week of Talks, All Participants - hmm, looks like they mean it #actaAug 12 13:43
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I just ousted @mayeesherr as the mayor of Hendon Central Underground Station on @foursquare! 12 14:26
TechrightsBotTitle: foursquare    :: Hendon Central Underground Station    :: London, United Kingdom   .::. Size~: 15.56 KBAug 12 14:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] LA Times Barred From Publishing Photo Of Murder Suspect 12 14:28
TechrightsBotTitle: LA Times Barred From Publishing Photo Of Murder Suspect | Techdirt .::. Size~: 24.32 KBAug 12 14:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Is there a way to present a host directory to #kvm guest as if it was an usb disk, or something similar? #fedoraAug 12 14:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] Next week's ACTA meeting appears to be full round - all participants, full agenda, full wk of talks. 12 14:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / Malini Aisola: USTR confirms that ACTA ne ... .::. Size~: 12 KBAug 12 14:34
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] Eben Moglen on the future of #software #patents 12 14:48
TechrightsBotTitle: OSS and software patents: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em .::. Size~: 32.54 KBAug 12 14:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Today I got another Android Tablet for development purpose. #android , 200 dollar tablet. 12 14:56
TechrightsBotTitle: Today I got another Android Tablet for development purpose. #android , 200 dollar tablet. - Narendra Sisodiya's posterous .::. Size~: 23.12 KBAug 12 14:56
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Every time something like this happens, I wonder more and more, what's the difference between him and Dubya? 12 15:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Obama Wants Allies To Go After WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 166.25 KBAug 12 15:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Relax Mr Policemen, we all know the verdict in advance 'Innocent of all charges, just doing your duty' 12 15:28
TechrightsBotTitle: BBC News - Officers face charges over an attack on Babar Ahmad .::. Size~: 57.31 KBAug 12 15:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] Cdn Alliance of Student Assoc. posts its objection to Access Copyright tariff proposal [PDF] 12 15:34
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Early take on India's $35 tablet: 'Fairly impressive' vapourware still?Aug 12 15:42
TechrightsBotTitle: Early take on India's $35 tablet: 'Fairly impressive' | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 118.14 KBAug 12 15:42
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Did Korean Officials Really Need To Raid Google Offices Over Street View WiFi Sniffing? 12 16:04
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schestowitz "what would you call a fork of wave? splash?"Aug 12 16:07
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schestowitzTsunamiAug 12 16:07
*jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 16:11
Diablo-D3schestowitz: noAug 12 16:17
Diablo-D3Sasami.Aug 12 16:17
*Ziomatrix ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 16:27
*schestowitz on phoneAug 12 16:27
ZiomatrixPalm gets back into the game of filing vague use and feel patents :( : 12 16:28
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*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 16:31
_Goblinhello allAug 12 16:31
_Goblingood dayAug 12 16:31
_GoblinbonjourAug 12 16:32
Ziomatrixbuenas diasAug 12 16:32
_Goblin:)Aug 12 16:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] Trosow on C-32 & the Access Copyright tariff - video of "Double Trouble for Educators and Students" 12 16:34
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Ziomatrix_Goblin: so what have you been up to on your side of the globe?Aug 12 16:34
_Goblinnot much reallyAug 12 16:36
_GoblinworkAug 12 16:36
_GoblinworkAug 12 16:36
_GoblinworkAug 12 16:36
_Goblin&Aug 12 16:36
_GoblinworkAug 12 16:36
_Goblinhad not much chance for Openbytes or the other projects Im working on.Aug 12 16:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @malini_aisola USTR confirms that ACTA negotiations will take place all of next week, "expect to cover all issues" Agenda to be availableAug 12 16:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @nsisodiya nice gear. Is the $35 one still vapourware?Aug 12 16:39
Ziomatrix_Goblin: kind of the same, except more like searching for better work and a decent place to study if you know what I mean.Aug 12 16:40
*_Goblin has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)Aug 12 16:42
Ziomatrix:-/Aug 12 16:42
schestowitzZiomatrix: what subject?Aug 12 16:42
schestowitzMaybe you can come to the UK..... we have heavy rain her todayAug 12 16:43
Ziomatrixschestowitz: that would be a nice cool welcome compared to the hot and humid summer I'm going through on my side of the pondAug 12 16:43
schestowitzI got caught in pouring rain while doing a run outside... got soaked... one moment it's sunny, then thundery... crazyAug 12 16:43
schestowitzZiomatrix: very cold summer hereAug 12 16:44
schestowitzOn a relative scaleAug 12 16:44
schestowitzBeen cloudy every day since JuneAug 12 16:44
schestowitzExcept for periods of hoursAug 12 16:44
schestowitzBut it's comfortable for those working insideAug 12 16:45
schestowitzProductiveness depends on comfortAug 12 16:45
Ziomatrixschestowitz: my current line of work mostly involves being outdoors.Aug 12 16:45
*ThistleWeb (~gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 16:46
ThistleWebI've been wondering why the BN feed is a Twitter one instead of an one, wouldn't it be more apporpriate to use a FOSS service?Aug 12 16:47
Ziomatrixschestowitz: I have been trying to score a decent indoor job that takes advantage of my computer literacy for the meantime but I haven't had much luck. Most want either interns that pay nothing or if its an academic establish they only hire students while paying in "tuition aid"Aug 12 16:48
schestowitzZiomatrix: I heard that...Aug 12 16:49
schestowitzIn California at leastAug 12 16:50
schestowitzThe big banks (oh, poor them) hire interns to work FULL TIME for NO PAYAug 12 16:50
schestowitzAnd I'm shocked they don't break the lawAug 12 16:50
Ziomatrixschestowitz: Its happening on the east side too. I don't have that much cash to burn while earning an undergraduate. I need the money now. I was even contemplating taking on the evil of a few week course into getting a "MS Certification."Aug 12 16:50
schestowitzThey pay the poor sods with "work experience" (sometimes exloited more than full time)Aug 12 16:50
schestowitzThan you have imported labour...Aug 12 16:50
Ziomatrixschestowitz: its either that or outsourcing and it doesn't matter how much the fed asks in "fines" from these corporation they end up saving in the long run and the governmental agencies stock up on their coffers.Aug 12 16:51
schestowitzI know many people who had cushy jobs and now very quietly move to physical jobs (DaemonFC and his dad too)Aug 12 16:51
schestowitzThistleWeb: my main one is identicaAug 12 16:51
schestowitzmy identica account predates twitterAug 12 16:51
schestowitzI just post to identica and twitter grabs a copyAug 12 16:52
schestowitzI can't message people on twitter though without an identica accountAug 12 16:52
ZiomatrixThistleWeb: Twitter gets you heard more by "the establishment"Aug 12 16:52
*Ziomatrix is in one of those mooods.Aug 12 16:52
schestowitzZiomatrix: you're a very intelligent person, I'm sure you'll do wellAug 12 16:53
schestowitzI thought based on the text you're dad's age actuallyAug 12 16:53
schestowitzThistleWeb: Twitter gives copies to Microsoft and GoogleAug 12 16:53
schestowitzThey get the backend dataAug 12 16:54
schestowitzIPs and all too I assumeAug 12 16:54
schestowitzThey they parse it at their pleasure "for search"Aug 12 16:54
Ziomatrixschestowitz: sometimes I think I overcompensate with articulation :-PAug 12 16:54
schestowitzIdentica has not yet violated itself like thatAug 12 16:54
schestowitzFacebook has tooAug 12 16:54
Ziomatrixopinions? 12 16:54
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schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't need to 'click' on pages or requests them. It gets direct DB accessAug 12 16:54
schestowitzZiomatrix: that's good news overall, but Google and its allies get power-greedy as they get stronger and they yank freedom from AndroidAug 12 16:55
schestowitzZiomatrix: yes, but that takes timeAug 12 16:55
schestowitzI go for quantity usually, typos acceptedAug 12 16:56
schestowitzI just reckon that being more prolific will let me express more ideas, some of which will make sense. I also loathe proofreading... as I've said for years :-). It basically feels like trying to keep up with a standard that just slows one downAug 12 16:57
Ziomatrixschestowitz: I would pursue becoming a lawyer if I were able to be more callousAug 12 16:57
schestowitzLawyers do little that's goodAug 12 16:58
schestowitzThey are actorsAug 12 16:58
schestowitzLike lobbyistsAug 12 16:58
schestowitzI find out how they overlap and move between these jobsAug 12 16:58
schestowitzLike Julia FisherAug 12 16:58
schestowitzActress/hostess... she even did pr0n!Aug 12 16:58
Ziomatrixschestowitz: well their key performance is swaying a verdict from the jury and convincing the judge to the validity of their case contentAug 12 16:58
BalzacLawyers are necessaryAug 12 16:58
*schestowitz bets Hurd got all the tapesAug 12 16:59
schestowitzBalzac: to their families :-)Aug 12 16:59
BalzacI just found out about this hurd caseAug 12 16:59
schestowitzJoking aside, sometimes they areAug 12 16:59
Balzacsucks to be himAug 12 16:59
Ziomatrixschestowitz: you also have to accept clients that you would rather not assosciate with on an intimate basis and be able to know when the chips are up to convince your client that "sorry, its the best I can do."Aug 12 16:59
schestowitzGood lawyers can also screw the "good" guyAug 12 16:59
schestowitzIf you face a judge without a lawyer cause you know you are right you can still loseAug 12 17:00
schestowitzAnd not comprehend the legal proceduresAug 12 17:00
Balzacsometimes a doctor amputates the wrong legAug 12 17:00
schestowitzYou're assume wrongly:Aug 12 17:00
schestowitzA lawyer's job is not justiceAug 12 17:00
schestowitzA lawyer's job is to best serve the clientAug 12 17:00
schestowitzEven if his name is OJ and he killed his ex wifeAug 12 17:00
Balzacyou can be falsely convicted in the "court of public opinion" with no judges or lawyers involvedAug 12 17:01
schestowitzA lawyer's job does not involved the type of oath nurses take for exampleAug 12 17:01
*DaemonFC (~Ryan@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 17:01
schestowitzThe one where they promise to serve patients, not hospital's budget or somethingAug 12 17:01
Balzachippocratic oathAug 12 17:01
schestowitz[17:00] <Balzac> sometimes a doctor amputates the wrong legAug 12 17:01
Ziomatrixschestowitz: I guess thats why hospitals are always understaffed and the nurses overworked :PAug 12 17:02
schestowitzYou don't need a lawyerAug 12 17:02
schestowitzYou can then negotiate damagesAug 12 17:02
schestowitzIn case of dispute you can consult mediators other than lawyersAug 12 17:02
Ziomatrixschestowitz: it may take a lawyer to convince the hospital to produce the right records that states X Leg has infection, while in actuality Y leg was removedAug 12 17:02
DaemonFCthe hospitals view themselves as a for profit that has to do some "charity" to keep its non-profit tax status and get government subsidies for occasionally having to provide the minimum legally required care for people who have to go to the Emergency RoomAug 12 17:03
schestowitzIn the i4i case Microsoft was fined $40 million for contempt of courtAug 12 17:03
schestowitzMicrosoft, IIRC, compared i4i to the Madoff-type scammerAug 12 17:03
schestowitzZiomatrix: at least nurses are super-valuable to soecietyAug 12 17:04
DaemonFCschestowitz, When I had those seizures I'm just glad that I hadn't been shot or broken some bones or something Aug 12 17:04
schestowitzThere is nothing unethical about what they do, none I can think ofAug 12 17:04
schestowitzZiomatrix: but I assume NHSAug 12 17:04
schestowitzI.e. state/tax fundedAug 12 17:04
DaemonFCthe hospital basically just pumped me full of dilantin and adavan and sent me packing after about an hourAug 12 17:04
schestowitzIn the US all nurses would be 'proprietary'Aug 12 17:04
DaemonFCthen sent me a bill for thousands of dollarsAug 12 17:04
DaemonFCwhen I saw the bills that I got over that I felt like I needed another hit of adavanAug 12 17:05
DaemonFClolAug 12 17:05
schestowitzHehAug 12 17:05
schestowitzOr a shot of JaqAug 12 17:06
DaemonFCthat's some good stuffAug 12 17:06
DaemonFCyou can be on death's doorstep and not even know itAug 12 17:06
DaemonFC:PAug 12 17:06
schestowitzWorks with UbuntuAug 12 17:06
schestowitzdoorstep of wot?Aug 12 17:06
DaemonFCno wonder Fred Phelps abuses itAug 12 17:06
DaemonFC(The anti-gay preacher)Aug 12 17:06
schestowitzHe needs to have a selling pointAug 12 17:07
schestowitz1. Blame 9/11 on gaysAug 12 17:07
DaemonFCthe guy is basically a rambling old drug addict who beat all of his kids, and his wifeAug 12 17:07
schestowitz2. Preach hatred against gaysAug 12 17:07
schestowitz3. Get promotedAug 12 17:07
schestowitz...Aug 12 17:07
DaemonFCand runs a cult based loosely on the Baptist churchAug 12 17:07
schestowitzLast step is "go on vacation with a gay man for hire.."Aug 12 17:08
schestowitzNo profitAug 12 17:08
DaemonFCattended mainly by 100 or so members who are mostly his inbred relativesAug 12 17:08
DaemonFChe gets high on the fact that anyone takes him seriously enough to hate himAug 12 17:08
DaemonFC:DAug 12 17:08
schestowitzRobertson..Aug 12 17:08
schestowitzJr.Aug 12 17:08
schestowitzI don't know Phelps though, only by nameAug 12 17:09
schestowitzSomeone linked to a video of him earlierAug 12 17:09
schestowitzHey, how come *you* get to have all the whacky one?Aug 12 17:09
DaemonFCschestowitz, His cult came to Huntington, Indiana to picket a military funeralAug 12 17:10
DaemonFCand several of them got their asses kickedAug 12 17:10
DaemonFCso the police arrested them "for their own protection"Aug 12 17:10
DaemonFCand told them to leave the townAug 12 17:10
schestowitzIn Britain most of the hate-spewing clerics work in mosques, not churchesAug 12 17:10
DaemonFCschestowitz, Well, there's not many Christian extremists that actually bomb anythingAug 12 17:11
DaemonFCso I'd rather deal with themAug 12 17:11
schestowitzHehe. I'd love to see that happenAug 12 17:11
DaemonFCat least they're mostly all talkAug 12 17:11
schestowitz=happen= HuntongtonAug 12 17:11
DaemonFCthe Muslims are the really bat shit crazy idiotsAug 12 17:11
schestowitzNot the other remarks (out of context)Aug 12 17:11
schestowitzNot reallyAug 12 17:11
schestowitzJust a potionAug 12 17:12
DaemonFCdon't get me wrong, I think all religious extremists are bat shit crazy idiotsAug 12 17:12
schestowitzThere's like 1.5 billion of themAug 12 17:12
DaemonFCbut I'd rather deal with the ones that don't blow people upAug 12 17:12
schestowitzMore than "white western wo/men"Aug 12 17:12
DaemonFCYeah, but the Muslims are primitive barely conscious pond scumAug 12 17:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: McVeigh?Aug 12 17:12
DaemonFCnot technologically advancedAug 12 17:12
DaemonFCso they could outnumber civilized people 10-1 and still be manageableAug 12 17:13
schestowitzTHe best solution is birth reductions, sure...Aug 12 17:13
DaemonFCHE was actually not a Christian extremist Aug 12 17:13
DaemonFChe was involved with Neo NazisAug 12 17:13
schestowitzWe're already running out of resources, not spaceAug 12 17:13
DaemonFCand they use Christianity as a coverAug 12 17:13
schestowitzLike the Nazis then...Aug 12 17:14
schestowitzThe cross...Aug 12 17:14
schestowitzThe ultra-religious love associating Nazism with no belief in God...Aug 12 17:14
DaemonFCwell, they're so far off the deep end that Christians are scrambling to get away from them (mostly)Aug 12 17:14
schestowitzDespite Hitler and his party citing God and stuff...Aug 12 17:14
schestowitzBut anyway, what about the ARizona neo-Nazis?Aug 12 17:14
schestowitzThe ones patrolling the borders...Aug 12 17:15
schestowitz"Patriots...."Aug 12 17:15
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 17:15
DaemonFCWell, Hitler liked to dabble with the occultAug 12 17:15
DaemonFCall kinds of crazy shitAug 12 17:15
_Goblin..yep Raiders of the Lost ark was proof of that.Aug 12 17:15
DaemonFCChristianity was only one thing he abusedAug 12 17:15
schestowitzStalin though was another storyAug 12 17:15
schestowitzAbused kidAug 12 17:15
schestowitzParanoidAug 12 17:16
schestowitzThen there's Dubya :-)Aug 12 17:16
schestowitzHe managed to double the deficitAug 12 17:16
schestowitzAnd sank you economy, DaemonFCAug 12 17:16
DaemonFCnoAug 12 17:16
schestowitzHis friend Tony did the same to the UK, to a degreeAug 12 17:16
DaemonFCit was on its way down in flames before BushAug 12 17:16
DaemonFCnot that he helpedAug 12 17:16
schestowitzDaemonFC: 2000?Aug 12 17:17
DaemonFCClinton managed to fudge the deficit Aug 12 17:17
schestowitzTech bubble crashAug 12 17:17
schestowitzStill small decifitAug 12 17:17
DaemonFCthe dotcom bubble helped fudge the jobs reportsAug 12 17:17
schestowitzLet me find the chartsAug 12 17:17
DaemonFCNAFTA tooAug 12 17:17
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: Westboro Baptists lolAug 12 17:17
DaemonFCNAFTA gave us a boost before it killed usAug 12 17:17
schestowitz 12 17:17
TechrightsBotTitle: U.S. National Debt Graph: What the Press Won't Tell You .::. Size~: 30.93 KBAug 12 17:17
schestowitzFirst result in Google let's see...Aug 12 17:17
DaemonFCschestowitz, If I was the president, my first order of business would be to do everything I could to hinder our NAFTA obligationsAug 12 17:18
Ziomatrixschestowitz: check out under TrumanAug 12 17:18
DaemonFCby issuing a series of executive orders denying all government agencies their effective ability to complyAug 12 17:18
*jono has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Aug 12 17:18
schestowitzHow valid are these #s?Aug 12 17:19
schestowitzThe graphs could be changed to show a different ratioAug 12 17:20
schestowitzNot GDPAug 12 17:21
DaemonFCschestowitz, Global warming is just another invention to kill the USAug 12 17:21
schestowitzNot China?Aug 12 17:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Why Are Entertainment Industry Spokespeople So Scared To Debate Critics? 12 17:21
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DaemonFCwell, China isn't entering into any "global warming" treatiesAug 12 17:22
schestowitzIt's an invention all right... 'invented' by the gases we emitAug 12 17:22
DaemonFCthey're smartAug 12 17:22
schestowitzThey cut down factories nowAug 12 17:22
schestowitzPollutantsAug 12 17:22
DaemonFCschestowitz, I happen to think we're about to enter another ice ageAug 12 17:22
schestowitzYou think wrongAug 12 17:22
DaemonFCthe climate history has shown that whenever a warming period like this happens, it dilutes the oceans due to the melting of the iceAug 12 17:23
schestowitz 12 17:23
TechrightsBotTitle:  Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik M Conway | Book review | Books | The Observer  .::. Size~: 207.21 KBAug 12 17:23
DaemonFCand it stops the normal current flowAug 12 17:23
DaemonFCand causes an ice ageAug 12 17:23
schestowitz 12 17:23
TechrightsBotTitle:    Copyright Boss Refuses Debate with Pirate Bay Co-Founder  | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 76.76 KBAug 12 17:23
DaemonFCso we're about to enter an ice age sometime within the next few thousand yearsAug 12 17:23
DaemonFCmore than likelyAug 12 17:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: source []?Aug 12 17:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: yeah, and the US will lend money to china... some time in the coming yearAug 12 17:24
DaemonFCthe Earth will continue warming for a while, then it will crash and go into an ice ageAug 12 17:24
schestowitzSource?Aug 12 17:24
DaemonFCit seems like it will go on warming forever because they only talk about the "next 100 years"Aug 12 17:24
DaemonFCwhich seems like a long time because most humans don't live that longAug 12 17:24
schestowitzYour credentials?Aug 12 17:24
schestowitzSource?Aug 12 17:24
schestowitzAre you a climatologist?Aug 12 17:24
DaemonFCwell, the climate scientists are liarsAug 12 17:25
DaemonFCmost of themAug 12 17:25
schestowitzSource?Aug 12 17:25
DaemonFCthey deliberately lieAug 12 17:25
schestowitzSource?Aug 12 17:25
DaemonFCand issue intellectually dishonest reportsAug 12 17:25
schestowitzNoeAug 12 17:25
schestowitzNopeAug 12 17:25
schestowitzTaken out of context due to lack of transparencyAug 12 17:25
schestowitzThe data is still thereAug 12 17:25
DaemonFCHumans aren't causing anything that hasn't already happened several times overAug 12 17:25
schestowitzYes we doAug 12 17:26
DaemonFCwe may be accelerating this warming periodAug 12 17:26
DaemonFCthat's about itAug 12 17:26
DaemonFCit doesn't matterAug 12 17:26
schestowitzWe've just put millions of barrels of oil in the oceanAug 12 17:26
schestowitzWe also burn up millions of gallons inside the atmosphereAug 12 17:26
DaemonFCwell, if either of us were going to live thousands of years and watch as most of Europe and Canada froze solid...Aug 12 17:27
schestowitzNobody has done that for like... what? 4.5 bn years?Aug 12 17:27
DaemonFChumans will probably survive the freezeAug 12 17:27
schestowitzThat was before the industrial revolutionAug 12 17:27
DaemonFCif we move closer to the equator Aug 12 17:27
DaemonFCit should still be warm enough to support us thereAug 12 17:27
schestowitzIdiot.Aug 12 17:27
schestowitzTroll.Aug 12 17:27
DaemonFCthe northern parts of the US will be covered in iceAug 12 17:27
MinceR(animated) 12 17:28
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DaemonFCRussia will be under a mile of itAug 12 17:28
DaemonFCYou only selectively pay attention to anything that supports your beliefsAug 12 17:28
DaemonFCwhenever someone says something that counters what the climate liars in Europe sayAug 12 17:28
DaemonFCyou ignore itAug 12 17:28
DaemonFCmost of the climate liars are in EuropeAug 12 17:29
DaemonFCyou notice that?Aug 12 17:29
DaemonFCI wonder why that could beAug 12 17:29
MinceRbecause Jesusland is firmly dedicated to poisoning the planet until everything on it dies?Aug 12 17:29
schestowitzI hope you sweat todayAug 12 17:29
schestowitzIt'll be worse when you're in your 30sAug 12 17:30
ZiomatrixbrbAug 12 17:30
schestowitzMinceR: not the US (Obama) is obsessed with arresting the Wikipedia 'ringleader'Aug 12 17:30
schestowitz*wikileaks I meanAug 12 17:30
DaemonFC 12 17:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Ice age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 145.57 KBAug 12 17:30
schestowitz /not/now/Aug 12 17:30
DaemonFCthe Europeans are a bunch of damned dirty liarsAug 12 17:31
MinceRof courseAug 12 17:31
DaemonFCfuck them Aug 12 17:31
schestowitzMinceR: appeal to "ice age"Aug 12 17:31
schestowitzClassic disinfoAug 12 17:31
MinceRtransparency is the great enemy to [would-be] dictators everywhereAug 12 17:31
schestowitzLike the "appeal to quantum mechanics"Aug 12 17:31
DaemonFCWikipedia is usually what you point toAug 12 17:31
schestowitzPeople who don't even understand the science just name themAug 12 17:31
schestowitzMinceR: yes, and Free software makes a culture of transparencyAug 12 17:32
schestowitzIncluding this IRC channelAug 12 17:32
DaemonFCthe warming cycle will crash eventuallyAug 12 17:32
schestowitzIt changes the way people who are watch behaveAug 12 17:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Up and about ready for more Severed Fifth recording at 10am Pac / 2pm Eas / 5pm UTC streamed live at #severedfifthAug 12 17:32
DaemonFCit has several times, played out almost exactly like thisAug 12 17:32
schestowitzImagine is all of GOogle's decisions were made in public...Aug 12 17:32
TechrightsBotTitle: Severed Fifth: Live In The Studio on USTREAM: Tune in to watch the second Severed Fifth album as it is written, recorded and produced.. Rock .::. Size~: 89.45 KBAug 12 17:33
schestowitzWi-Fi snooping, YouTube & copytright...Aug 12 17:33
DaemonFCwarming periods almost never last more than about 50,000 yearsAug 12 17:33
schestowitzGoogle has its share of greedy scum in the management and lawyers tier...Aug 12 17:33
schestowitzThey merely 'consume' the knowledge of many hackers...Aug 12 17:33
DaemonFCwe're closer to the end of this warming periodAug 12 17:33
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] New blog post: Enforcing the GPL in construction sites!! 12 17:33
TechrightsBotTitle: » Enforcing the GPL in construction sites!! .::. Size~: 28.76 KBAug 12 17:33
DaemonFCbased on the climate recordAug 12 17:33
DaemonFCeventually it will crash and we will enter another ice ageAug 12 17:34
DaemonFCif you want to talk a few thousand yearsAug 12 17:34
schestowitzYour nonsense if objectionableAug 12 17:34
DaemonFCif all you're content to talk about is the next 100, yeah it'll get hotterAug 12 17:34
DaemonFCbut that's not sustainableAug 12 17:34
DaemonFCit never has been, never will beAug 12 17:35
DaemonFCand it will happen all over again next timeAug 12 17:35
schestowitzWhat's never?Aug 12 17:35
schestowitzWhen human population was hundreds of tens of millions?Aug 12 17:35
DaemonFCthe Earth has been through many warming  cycles followed by ice agesAug 12 17:35
schestowitzWhen horse droppings were the source of methane?Aug 12 17:35
schestowitzWhen the Earth was covered with trees?Aug 12 17:35
DaemonFCwarming cycles cause the salt content of the oceans to become dilutedAug 12 17:35
DaemonFCwhich obstructs the normal current flowAug 12 17:35
DaemonFCand causes an ice ageAug 12 17:36
schestowitzHuman intervention is ignored by youAug 12 17:36
DaemonFCyou are an ignorant assAug 12 17:36
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 17:36
schestowitzThat's what THE WHOLE DEBATE is aboutAug 12 17:36
schestowitzHuman's roleAug 12 17:36
DaemonFCso?Aug 12 17:36
schestowitzPost industrial revolutionAug 12 17:36
draoan:DAug 12 17:36
DaemonFCso?Aug 12 17:36
schestowitzOK, enough..Aug 12 17:36
draoanschestowitz: why do you even try?Aug 12 17:36
DaemonFCso we may speed up the warming cycleAug 12 17:36
DaemonFCand bring the crash a few hundred years soonerAug 12 17:36
DaemonFCwho cares?Aug 12 17:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT @toros Prakash Advani: 98 percent of people surveyed out of a total of 75,000 users, confirm that they use Open Source. ...Aug 12 17:36
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DaemonFCI won't live to see itAug 12 17:36
DaemonFCwere you planning to?Aug 12 17:37
schestowitzHow convenientAug 12 17:37
DaemonFCI'd say the "greenhouse gas" problem is a small oneAug 12 17:37
schestowitzLike, "God exists, but you can't see it"Aug 12 17:37
DaemonFCcompared to thousands of years buried in iceAug 12 17:37
schestowitzLike Russell's "flying teapot"Aug 12 17:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] @schestowitz News about $35 dollar read BOM = $50. It will be Chinese Andriod 7inch (unusable) will cost around $150. $35dollar is its nameAug 12 17:37
DaemonFCglobal warming is just another name for accelerating the warming cycle we're in which will bring about another ice ageAug 12 17:38
draoanDaemonFC: ... you care about greenhouse gases buried in ice, but ignore oil burn in millions everyday?Aug 12 17:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @nsisodiya that's exactly what I thoughtAug 12 17:38
DaemonFCthey just never mention that partAug 12 17:38
schestowitzDaemonFC: and forest fires in Russia...Aug 12 17:39
DaemonFCfunny that they're worried about a few hundred years of "HOT" and not worries at all about a few thousand years under iceAug 12 17:39
schestowitzGreenhouse on overdriveAug 12 17:39
schestowitzAnd the tree won't be there to produce oxygen afterwardsAug 12 17:39
DaemonFCwhen the flow of the ocean currents is disrupted, the world starts to freeze overAug 12 17:40
DaemonFCas more ice accumulates, it accelerates the processAug 12 17:40
schestowitzDaemonFC: it's about humansAug 12 17:40
schestowitzThink.Aug 12 17:40
DaemonFCbecause it reflects sunlight back into spaceAug 12 17:40
schestowitzUse your headAug 12 17:40
DaemonFClike a mirrorAug 12 17:40
DaemonFCEver hear of Snowball Earth?Aug 12 17:40
DaemonFCthe supercontinent blocked the flow at that pointAug 12 17:40
DaemonFCeven more so than a lot of fresh water introduced into the ocean will when all this ice meltsAug 12 17:41
DaemonFCSnowball Earth is an extreme example of what happens when the normal flow of the ocean is prevented entirelyAug 12 17:41
DaemonFC 12 17:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Snowball Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 254.4 KBAug 12 17:41
schestowitzYou break a debate's ruleAug 12 17:42
DaemonFC650 million years ago, there was one giant continentAug 12 17:42
schestowitzBuAug 12 17:42
schestowitzBy going to angles other than the actual debateAug 12 17:42
DaemonFCit effectively blocked the ocean's normal flow Aug 12 17:43
DaemonFCand caused an ice ageAug 12 17:43
DaemonFC"snowball Earth"Aug 12 17:43
schestowitzThis reminds me of people to whom talking about cosmology or thermodynamics have something to do with DarwinAug 12 17:43
schestowitzEven ethics :0)Aug 12 17:43
DaemonFCthat ice age was the most severe in Earht history and nearly wiped out all lifeAug 12 17:43
DaemonFChad it not been for volcanic vents on the ocean floor, even the sea life could have been entirely wiped outAug 12 17:44
schestowitzDaemonFC: it didn't /cause/ an ice ageAug 12 17:44
schestowitzIt was thereAug 12 17:44
schestowitzUnderneath waterAug 12 17:44
DaemonFCcontinental drift also managed to break the ice ageAug 12 17:45
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 17:45
schestowitzPrehistoric recordsAug 12 17:47
schestowitzYou go to macro at level of billionsAug 12 17:47
schestowitzNot the topicAug 12 17:47
DaemonFCright, the topic is some shortsighted arrogant "global warming" scareAug 12 17:47
DaemonFCpeople like to scare themselves with relatively minor problemsAug 12 17:48
DaemonFCbecause then they don't have to think about the bigger ones that are comingAug 12 17:48
DaemonFCyou ever notice that?Aug 12 17:48
draoanoverloading your oceans ability to catch CO2 ain't "minor problem"Aug 12 17:48
DaemonFCthe world was here before humansAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCit will be here after humansAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCwho gives a shit?Aug 12 17:49
schestowitzAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCwe are all going to dieAug 12 17:49
schestowitz[17:47] <DaemonFC> right, the topic is some shortsighted arrogant "global warming" scareAug 12 17:49
schestowitzS call it terraformingAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCwe are ALL going to DIEAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCsomehow...Aug 12 17:49
schestowitzDone by men and womenAug 12 17:49
schestowitzDaemonFC: we willlAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCso who cares?Aug 12 17:49
DaemonFCif it happens in 100 years, greatAug 12 17:49
schestowitzBut it doesn't have to be by famine soonAug 12 17:49
DaemonFCif it happens in 500 years, greatAug 12 17:50
schestowitzPeak oilAug 12 17:50
DaemonFCif it happens in 10,000 years, greatAug 12 17:50
DaemonFCwe're never getting off this planetAug 12 17:50
DaemonFCand whatever happens, we die hereAug 12 17:50
DaemonFCall of usAug 12 17:50
DaemonFConly a question of "when" and "exactly how"Aug 12 17:50
schestowitzFine by youAug 12 17:50
schestowitzMeanwhile we kill the higher chainAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCwhat difference does it make if all humans are wiped out today vs. 100 years, 1,000 years, or 10,000 years from now?Aug 12 17:51
schestowitzLike whalesAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCwhat importance are we?Aug 12 17:51
DaemonFCwhales are all going to dieAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCall of themAug 12 17:51
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 17:51
schestowitzAnd this way we take back evolution and also harm the requirements of life, like ozoneAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCeven without humans, they would ALL dieAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCall of themAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCevery last oneAug 12 17:51
schestowitzWe could turn this planet into another VenusAug 12 17:51
DaemonFCthis planet is a sealed environment that will eventually collapse and be unable to sustain usAug 12 17:52
DaemonFCfor "some" reason or anotherAug 12 17:52
DaemonFCso we dodge one bullet and get to die from something elseAug 12 17:52
DaemonFCfantasticAug 12 17:52
DaemonFCas long as 100% of us are on the planet EarthAug 12 17:52
schestowitzThankfully for you, you'll have no offsprings to resent youAug 12 17:53
DaemonFC100% of us get to die from whatever happens to EarthAug 12 17:53
DaemonFCfuck itAug 12 17:53
schestowitzBut for those of us who are straight and will have kids, you attitude is selfish and mutually destructiveAug 12 17:53
DaemonFCthere are literally hundreds of other things that are waiting to kill us allAug 12 17:53
schestowitzYou wish destruction to othersAug 12 17:53
DaemonFConce global warming is no longer a threatAug 12 17:53
schestowitzLike those apocalyptic nuttersAug 12 17:53
DaemonFCand most of them are beyond our control, entirelyAug 12 17:53
DaemonFCand will happen eventuallyAug 12 17:54
schestowitz"The sooner the better, the savour from above will come to take us to Heaven"Aug 12 17:54
schestowitz*iourAug 12 17:54
*Ziomatrix has quit ()Aug 12 17:54
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 12 17:55
DaemonFCI just wonder if it's our fault when the 10 mile wide asterois hits usAug 12 17:55
DaemonFCor when the Sun decides to burn the EarthAug 12 17:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] This is my Tweet number 4000. #nsisodiya #opensource #openstandard #opencontent #antipatentAug 12 17:55
DaemonFCto name a couple of "Will happen eventually" apocalyptic possibilities Aug 12 17:55
DaemonFCand what your plan is to convince the asteroids and the Sun to spare us isAug 12 17:56
schestowitzWe can avert asteroid issuesAug 12 17:56
DaemonFCno we can'tAug 12 17:56
schestowitzWe have ways of deflecting themAug 12 17:56
DaemonFCthe ideas put forth are even more laughable than trying to blow the things upAug 12 17:56
schestowitzSuprnovas nearby are a bigger risk, I thinkAug 12 17:56
DaemonFCwe have NOTHING that can deflect an asteroidAug 12 17:57
schestowitzDaemonFC: you don't blow it upAug 12 17:57
DaemonFCblow it into pieces that are still dangerous or let it hitAug 12 17:57
DaemonFCare the two realistic optionsAug 12 17:57
schestowitzYou change its route way far from EarthAug 12 17:57
DaemonFCright, I'll just engage the tractor beamAug 12 17:57
schestowitzYou need to catch it early and calculate the routeAug 12 17:57
DaemonFCwe don't have those?Aug 12 17:57
schestowitzPreventing it from entering Earth's gravity/orbitAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCmaybe we will by the time one is on a collision courseAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCgo back to sleepAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCyour government has a plan!Aug 12 17:58
DaemonFCheheAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCthat's if we even saw it coming in timeAug 12 17:58
schestowitzWe have 50,000 nuclear weaponsAug 12 17:58
schestowitzOr thereaboutAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCso?Aug 12 17:58
DaemonFCturn one dangerous object into manyAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCwowAug 12 17:58
schestowitzIf you explode them way outside this system you can impact the route of asteroidsAug 12 17:58
DaemonFCyou don't just vaporize an asteroid with any nuclear weapons with the yield we possessAug 12 17:59
DaemonFCyou'd need something 100 times more powerful than the Tsar BombAug 12 17:59
schestowitzThe Asteroid has gravity toAug 12 17:59
DaemonFCwhich we probably can't even makeAug 12 17:59
DaemonFCand who would want that thing laying around if we could?Aug 12 17:59
schestowitzBits and pieces don't just 'fall off Earth' when it's hit by a bombAug 12 17:59
schestowitzDaemonFC: where does the "100" number come from?Aug 12 18:00
DaemonFCpushing it off course with a nearby nuclear detonation is the most realistic option I've seenAug 12 18:00
schestowitzA fairy in your ear?Aug 12 18:00
DaemonFCand even that would only nudge itAug 12 18:00
schestowitzAnd how do you know how big the asteroid is?Aug 12 18:00
DaemonFCif you catch the thing 50 years before it hits, then that might just be enoughAug 12 18:01
schestowitzWHat is "thing"?Aug 12 18:01
schestowitzHow big is it?Aug 12 18:01
schestowitzHow heavy?Aug 12 18:01
DaemonFClets say 10 miles in diameterAug 12 18:01
schestowitzWhat does the number "50" mean?Aug 12 18:01
schestowitzWhere does it come from?Aug 12 18:01
DaemonFCmade mostly of ironAug 12 18:01
DaemonFCwhat are you going to do?Aug 12 18:02
schestowitzObserve distant objectsAug 12 18:02
schestowitzAs some already doAug 12 18:02
DaemonFCone half that big killed the dinosaurs Aug 12 18:02
schestowitzSource?Aug 12 18:02
schestowitzYou're BSing like a machineAug 12 18:02
schestowitzWe don't even know what killed the dinosaursAug 12 18:02
DaemonFCthe one that killed the dinosaurs was roughly 6 miles in diameterAug 12 18:02
schestowitzThere are competing theoriesAug 12 18:02
schestowitzDaemonFC: source?Aug 12 18:03
DaemonFC 12 18:03
schestowitzDo we have that object buried somewhere?Aug 12 18:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Chicxulub crater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 134.34 KBAug 12 18:03
DaemonFCit left that craterAug 12 18:03
amarsh04and for everyone's information, recently added packages to Debian unstable include some that deal with climate modellingAug 12 18:03
DaemonFC"The crater is more than 180 km (110 mi) in diameter, making the feature one of the largest confirmed impact structures on Earth; the impacting bolide that formed the crater was at least 10 km (6 mi) in diameter."Aug 12 18:03
DaemonFC"The age of the rocks and isotope analysis show that this impact structure dates from the end of the Cretaceous Period, roughly 65 million years ago."Aug 12 18:04
DaemonFCthe dinosaurs, wiped out, 65 million years agoAug 12 18:04
DaemonFCan asteroid 6 miles wide, impacted the Earth, 65 million years agoAug 12 18:04
DaemonFCyou're right, we don't know that's what killed themAug 12 18:04
schestowitz"In March 2010, following extensive analysis of the available evidence covering 20 years' worth of data spanning the fields of palaeontology, geochemistry, climate modelling, geophysics and sedimentology, 41 international experts from 33 institutions reviewed available evidence and concluded that the impact at Chicxulub triggered the mass extinctions during K-T boundary including those of dinosaurs"Aug 12 18:04
schestowitzDaemonFC: there are other theories tooAug 12 18:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] About to start day 2 of the 'Nightmares By Design' recording sessions - join us live at now! #severedfifthAug 12 18:05
DaemonFCwhich are, in light of one hellaciously large asteroid causing a global catastrophe....Aug 12 18:05
TechrightsBotTitle: Severed Fifth: Live In The Studio on USTREAM: Tune in to watch the second Severed Fifth album as it is written, recorded and produced.. Rock .::. Size~: 89.42 KBAug 12 18:05
DaemonFCless than likelyAug 12 18:05
DaemonFCmaybe they got the snifflesAug 12 18:06
DaemonFCthe asteroid was just a minor inconvenience Aug 12 18:06
DaemonFC"Hey Bob, why has the sun been blocked out?" "Don't worry about it, happens from time to time!"Aug 12 18:07
DaemonFCyeah...Aug 12 18:07
DaemonFC*sneeze* "Uggh, I don't feel so good!" *all dinosaurs drop dead*Aug 12 18:08
DaemonFC-Brought to you by European scientists Aug 12 18:08
*schestowitz on phoneAug 12 18:08
DaemonFCso back to the original questionAug 12 18:09
DaemonFCsince there are many things, all of which will wipe out all life on Earth, that humans are powerless to stop, which are statistically unlikely but have billions of years in which to happenAug 12 18:10
DaemonFCWhy care about "global warming"?Aug 12 18:10
DaemonFCisn't it just one way to get the mass die off of all life on Earth over with sooner than laterAug 12 18:10
DaemonFCprovided it is happening at allAug 12 18:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Agenda of 10th Round ACTA negotiations, August 16-20, Washington DC - strange how "transparency" is always last #actaAug 12 18:10
TechrightsBotTitle: Agenda of 10th Round ACTA negotiations, August 16-20, Washington DC | Knowledge Ecology International .::. Size~: 18.4 KBAug 12 18:10
DaemonFCand even if we somehow avoid EVERYTHING else, the Sun will eventually destroy the EarthAug 12 18:11
DaemonFCas part of the lifecycle of a starAug 12 18:11
DaemonFCsee, these dirty hippies want to convince people that saving a doomed planet with a bunch of various condemned life forms is important Aug 12 18:12
DaemonFCsaving them to die of something elseAug 12 18:12
MinceRso why don't you die?Aug 12 18:12
DaemonFCthey don't have the answer for how humanity will survive the end of the EarthAug 12 18:12
DaemonFCMinceR, Even if we colonize Mars, we're still linked to the ultimate fate of this solar systemAug 12 18:13
MinceRthey have a few billion years to find an answer to thatAug 12 18:13
DaemonFCwe have to escape to a habitable planet, outside of this solar systemAug 12 18:13
DaemonFChow do you propose we do it?Aug 12 18:13
DaemonFCstarships with ftl drives?Aug 12 18:13
DaemonFCstargates maybeAug 12 18:13
DaemonFCand even on the off chance that colonizing planets hundreds or thousands of light years from here is even possibleAug 12 18:14
DaemonFChow likely do you think we are to figure out how?Aug 12 18:15
DaemonFCthe more realistic outcome is whatever happens to Earth, we dieAug 12 18:15
DaemonFCif we colonize Mars or something then, whatever happens to the solar system can still kill us allAug 12 18:15
DaemonFCand as for all the rest of this "life" that's supposedly so preciousAug 12 18:16
DaemonFChow do you figure we take whales with us to Mars?Aug 12 18:16
MinceRthe more realistic outcome is that we'll kill everything on earth before we can come up with somethingAug 12 18:16
MinceRbecause of people like youAug 12 18:16
DaemonFCMinceR, I just totally don't care because if we don't wipe out the life on this planet, something willAug 12 18:16
DaemonFCso it doesn't matterAug 12 18:16
DaemonFCit's not within our control to ultimately save the Earth from whatever its fate will ultimately beAug 12 18:17
DaemonFCto assume that we'll deflect gigantic asteroids and convince the Sun to calm down are arrogant ideasAug 12 18:18
DaemonFCput out to calm people with the mentality of small childrenAug 12 18:18
MinceRso was to assume that we'll fly with devices that are heavier than airAug 12 18:18
MinceRand that we'll stay awake at night and take care of lighting for ourselves :>Aug 12 18:19
DaemonFCso you tell me how we alter the lifecycle of the SunAug 12 18:19
DaemonFCand keep it burning foreverAug 12 18:19
MinceRand that we'Aug 12 18:19
MinceRand that we'll alter the DNA of organisms to make them differentAug 12 18:19
DaemonFCtell me how a faster than light drive worksAug 12 18:19
*nemox ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 18:19
DaemonFCtell me that it will put us in range of another Earth-like planetAug 12 18:19
DaemonFCwishful thinking at its worstAug 12 18:20
DaemonFCWe can sit here and die, or we can stand here and dieAug 12 18:20
DaemonFCwe can do nothing and dieAug 12 18:20
DaemonFCor we can panic and dieAug 12 18:20
MinceRi'll restate something, since you seem to have missed itAug 12 18:21
MinceR190430 < MinceR> they have a few billion years to find an answer to thatAug 12 18:21
DaemonFCright, and at least most of that is impossibleAug 12 18:21
DaemonFCor at least beyond where we'll ever advance toAug 12 18:21
MinceRwhy don't you go tell all the scientists to stop researching because we already know everything we'll ever knowAug 12 18:22
DaemonFCthat wouldn't be trueAug 12 18:22
DaemonFCour "advancement" supposedly is unsustainableAug 12 18:22
DaemonFCand causes harmAug 12 18:23
DaemonFCright?Aug 12 18:23
DaemonFCI mean, we should all live in hippie tents and wipe our asses with pine conesAug 12 18:23
DaemonFCto avoid pissing the climate offAug 12 18:23
MinceRso very scientificAug 12 18:23
DaemonFChow do we advance when we're told to regress?Aug 12 18:23
MinceRare you trying to say that non-fossile energy sources are somehow backwards?Aug 12 18:24
DaemonFCsociety is already regressing thanks to many reasonsAug 12 18:24
DaemonFCone is the environmentalistsAug 12 18:24
DaemonFCMinceR, How many people who use our technology, at its current level, could tell you how it works?Aug 12 18:24
MinceRa small fractionAug 12 18:25
MinceRnot sure if it's smaller than those who tell you that the principles those devices are based on are liesAug 12 18:25
DaemonFCbeyond "I push this button and the hypephone plays my Justin Timberlake AAC files"Aug 12 18:25
MinceRwhile using themAug 12 18:25
DaemonFCnot many, rightAug 12 18:25
DaemonFCthe limited knowledge we do have is more or less kept away from the average personAug 12 18:26
DaemonFCbecause the more people know about how something works, the less they depend on any one implementationAug 12 18:26
DaemonFCwould you say that's a fair assessment?Aug 12 18:26
MinceRthat usually isn't the reasonAug 12 18:27
MinceRthe reason is that most people couldn't care less about knowledgeAug 12 18:27
DaemonFCand the less people know about something they depend on very much, the more profit there is in being one of the providers of such technology Aug 12 18:27
DaemonFCthat's another reason we're regressingAug 12 18:28
DaemonFCpeople are persuaded not to consider how things workAug 12 18:28
DaemonFCif it stops working, buy another oneAug 12 18:28
DaemonFChow do you fix the one you have? don't worry, it was OLD anywayAug 12 18:28
MinceRas long as you have enough traineed manpower to actually provide that technologyAug 12 18:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] RT @glynmoody: Sony Ericsson to introduce Android 3.0 gaming platform and PSP Go-like smartphone = 12 18:28
MinceRs/eed/ed/Aug 12 18:28
TechrightsBotTitle: Exclusive: Sony Ericsson to introduce Android 3.0 gaming platform and PSP Go-like smartphone -- Engadget .::. Size~: 219.42 KBAug 12 18:28
DaemonFChow do I make it work the way I prefer? don't ask such things!Aug 12 18:29
DaemonFCit works perfectly just the way it is!Aug 12 18:29
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 18:29
DaemonFCahh, hypedevicesAug 12 18:29
DaemonFCand ilkAug 12 18:29
DaemonFC"But it can't do this and this and that! And, it can't do X correctly!"Aug 12 18:29
DaemonFCYou're obviously just bashing itAug 12 18:29
*nemox has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Aug 12 18:30
DaemonFCdon't point out flaws in anything or other cultists will wag their finger at youAug 12 18:30
MinceRnot everyone is a crApple cultist yet, thoughAug 12 18:30
DaemonFCwell, there are so many devices like the hypepod and hypephoneAug 12 18:31
DaemonFCit's like a hypedevice by any other name is still a hypedeviceAug 12 18:31
DaemonFCyou know?Aug 12 18:31
MinceRnot so many, actuallyAug 12 18:31
DaemonFCHow is Android any better?Aug 12 18:31
MinceRmost competing devices are much more open and powerfulAug 12 18:31
DaemonFCHow is my locked down Java-based phone better?Aug 12 18:31
MinceReven android is a lot more open than hypeOSAug 12 18:31
DaemonFCthey cost lessAug 12 18:31
DaemonFCmaybe the implementation is more functional Aug 12 18:31
DaemonFCbut beyond that I still have no idea HOW it worksAug 12 18:32
MinceRyou can install apps without having to do it through the android market or having to jailbreakAug 12 18:32
DaemonFCI still DEPEND on themAug 12 18:32
DaemonFCI did have to jailbreak my phoneAug 12 18:32
DaemonFCluckily the master key leakedAug 12 18:32
DaemonFCand now I can sign any applet I wantAug 12 18:32
DaemonFCbut you can't always count on that happening, right?Aug 12 18:32
MinceRrightAug 12 18:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] How Many Times Will Content Industries Claim The Sky Is Falling Before People Stop Believing Them? 12 18:32
TechrightsBotTitle: How Many Times Will Content Industries Claim The Sky Is Falling Before People Stop Believing Them? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 22.62 KBAug 12 18:32
DaemonFCAT&T uses DRM to keep other appets off my phoneAug 12 18:33
DaemonFCwant GPS? Pay AT&T!Aug 12 18:33
DaemonFCWant ringtones? Pay AT&T!Aug 12 18:33
DaemonFCwant games? pay AT&T!Aug 12 18:33
DaemonFCtwitter app? That'll be $5 thank youAug 12 18:33
MinceRto be fair, my phone is symbian, not androidAug 12 18:34
DaemonFCWant to delete all that nonfunctional crapware? SorryAug 12 18:34
MinceRbut that too is semi-open like androidAug 12 18:34
DaemonFCthere's really no such thing as semi-openAug 12 18:34
DaemonFCeither it's open or it's closedAug 12 18:34
MinceRyes there isAug 12 18:35
MinceRthere's an entire spectrumAug 12 18:35
DaemonFCprying it open based on having a little more knowledge about how the system it's based on works doesn't make it openAug 12 18:35
DaemonFCit just makes it less of a pain in the ass to pry openAug 12 18:35
DaemonFCmaybeAug 12 18:35
MinceRfrom low-end phones, through hypePhones, j2me featurephones, android and symbian smartphones to maemo/meego and openmoko smartphonesAug 12 18:35
DaemonFCmine is J2MEAug 12 18:35
MinceRdifferent amount of apis and phone functionality they officially let you useAug 12 18:36
MinceRpresence or absence of killswitchesAug 12 18:36
DaemonFCas awful as it is in some ways, at least it's not a hypephone Aug 12 18:36
MinceRsome or no limitation of where you can install apps fromAug 12 18:36
MinceRetc.Aug 12 18:36
DaemonFCI tried a hypephone 4G out in the storeAug 12 18:36
DaemonFCand I couldn't imagine trying to use that day to dayAug 12 18:36
DaemonFCthe keyboard is terribleAug 12 18:36
DaemonFCjust for startersAug 12 18:36
MinceRthere's no keyboardAug 12 18:37
DaemonFCwhat else even matters when it gets half the letters you're typing wrong?Aug 12 18:37
DaemonFCvirtual keyboard thingyAug 12 18:37
DaemonFCwhateverAug 12 18:37
DaemonFCthe touchpad is inaccurate Aug 12 18:37
MinceRwhich is no keyboardAug 12 18:37
DaemonFCbetter?Aug 12 18:37
DaemonFCI even calibrated itAug 12 18:37
DaemonFCand nothing changedAug 12 18:37
DaemonFChow do people manage to live with that shit?Aug 12 18:37
DaemonFCmuch less apologize for all the things it gets wrongAug 12 18:38
MinceRi guess if you were really dedicated, you could hook up a bluetooth keyboard, but it's insecure and in some cases it just won't doAug 12 18:38
MinceRthey're idiots, that's howAug 12 18:38
DaemonFCmy cousin got one of those "free bumpers"Aug 12 18:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@ShanaSmiles4You After #Exxon Valdez, we now drill a "reformulated" #oil that evaporates when no cameras are pointed at it. #bpAug 12 18:38
DaemonFCstill dropped calls like crazyAug 12 18:38
MinceRit's a hypePhone, what did you expect it to do? :>Aug 12 18:39
DaemonFCso she took it back and got her AT&T plan canceled Aug 12 18:39
DaemonFCpicked up one of those Verizon Droid phonesAug 12 18:39
DaemonFCthose do work much betterAug 12 18:39
MinceRafaik even previous versions had shitty connectivityAug 12 18:39
DaemonFCbut most other phones doAug 12 18:39
MinceReven though the antenna didn't get into galvanic contact with the userAug 12 18:39
DaemonFCthe bumper makes absolutely no differenceAug 12 18:39
DaemonFCat allAug 12 18:39
DaemonFChow you hold it makes no difference, at allAug 12 18:40
DaemonFCthe phone is a piece of shit, and AT&T's network is also unreliable with any deviceAug 12 18:40
DaemonFCthey just magnify each other's problems  Aug 12 18:40
DaemonFCAT&T's network isn't the biggest problem thoughAug 12 18:40
DaemonFCthe phone isAug 12 18:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@MMonides Operation Iraqi Freedom. *koff* I think Orwell called this one.Aug 12 18:40
DaemonFCI use AT&T with a Samsung J2ME phoneAug 12 18:41
DaemonFCI never get dropped callsAug 12 18:41
DaemonFCthe 3g network is a little flaky thoughAug 12 18:41
DaemonFCMinceR, AT&T and the hypephone just magnify each others flawsAug 12 18:42
DaemonFCthat's my opinionAug 12 18:42
DaemonFCof course out here it's impossible to get decent 3g coverageAug 12 18:42
DaemonFCwith any providerAug 12 18:42
DaemonFCfar from what they would have you believe, 95% of their network is overlapAug 12 18:42
DaemonFCso if AT&T blows, so will Verizon Aug 12 18:43
DaemonFCor anyone elseAug 12 18:43
DaemonFC:PAug 12 18:43
DaemonFCthe Crapple cultists would have you believe that all of the hypephone fail is AT&T's faultAug 12 18:44
DaemonFCit kinda makes me wish they'd have multiple companies selling hypephoneAug 12 18:44
DaemonFCso that argument would no longer workAug 12 18:44
DaemonFCyou could slap that sucker on anyone's network you like and it would fail just as bad as it does on AT&TAug 12 18:45
DaemonFCschestowitz, That article about hypedevice ownership and sex partners was hilarious Aug 12 18:46
DaemonFC"People with more money attract more people who will sleep with them"Aug 12 18:46
DaemonFCWhat else is new?Aug 12 18:46
MinceRwater is wet, film at 11Aug 12 18:47
DaemonFCPeople who can afford a pet rock with an AT&T 3g plan get more pussy!Aug 12 18:48
DaemonFC:PAug 12 18:48
DaemonFCMinceR, There's even an app that "tells you when it's OK to drive" after you've been drinking Aug 12 18:49
MinceRyayAug 12 18:50
DaemonFCthe damned thing must be magic if it knows my exact metabolismAug 12 18:50
DaemonFCand exactly how much alcohol I consumedAug 12 18:50
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 18:50
DaemonFC"5 straight shots of vodka, 3 beers, a long island iced tea, and 2 margarita shooters"Aug 12 18:51
DaemonFC"Quick, drive to the AT&T store and upgrade to iPhone 4G!"Aug 12 18:51
DaemonFClolAug 12 18:51
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@viseshk Why wasn't BB encrypt issue thought of when #RIM entered Indian mkt // govt gets interested when it becomes common, not at entry %Aug 12 18:53
DaemonFCMinceR, How long do you figure it'll be before 7ono starts pimping libhypemobiledevice?Aug 12 18:54
MinceRnot sureAug 12 18:55
MinceRdepends on when does he get a free zuneAug 12 18:55
MinceRor whatever came of zune nowAug 12 18:55
DaemonFCZune actually works better on Linux than ipodAug 12 18:55
DaemonFCbut neither work wellAug 12 18:55
DaemonFCor consistentlyAug 12 18:55
DaemonFCI speak of plugging a 5th generation video ipod into Ubuntu 7.04Aug 12 18:56
DaemonFCas for the Zune, I think I plugged in one of the 120 GB hard drive models into Ubuntu 8.10Aug 12 18:57
DaemonFClibmtp can handle the old hard drive based ones, but you may have to unplug and plug it back in 4-5 times before it decides to mountAug 12 18:57
DaemonFCat least, as of the last time I triedAug 12 18:58
DaemonFCand the ipod will throw all your MP3s under UnknownAug 12 18:58
DaemonFClibmtp is less than reliable thoughAug 12 18:58
DaemonFCif you have a choice you should select MSC mode on the deviceAug 12 18:59
DaemonFCand never have to worry about it againAug 12 18:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Important security updates to Drupal 6.x please RTAug 12 18:59
MinceRif you have a choice, get a PMP that isn't made of suck :>Aug 12 19:00
DaemonFCUbuntu tries to use PTP mode half the timeAug 12 19:02
DaemonFCwhen I try mounting my Sansa in MTP modeAug 12 19:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Frontline Club WikiLeaks debate starts in 8 minutes. Live video: 12 19:02
TechrightsBotTitle: Frontline Club - Watch live TV channel in high quality | Livestation .::. Size~: 37.09 KBAug 12 19:02
DaemonFCand it shows up as a camera that I can't openAug 12 19:02
schestowitzMaybe it isAug 12 19:03
DaemonFCit does not have a camera in itAug 12 19:04
schestowitzJust don't put it clipped next to yur crotchAug 12 19:04
DaemonFCand it does not support PTPAug 12 19:04
DaemonFCputting Ogg Vorbis files on something in MTP mode is just wrong anywayAug 12 19:04
DaemonFC:PAug 12 19:04
schestowitzYou never know..Aug 12 19:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] A weak case for software patents - make that non-existent: for software, "patent costs exceed their benefits"Aug 12 19:04
TechrightsBotTitle: A weak case for software patents | .::. Size~: 42.71 KBAug 12 19:04
schestowitzMaybe your PMP can do the SalsaAug 12 19:04
DaemonFCC:\Users\Ryan\Music\Weird Al Yankovic\Bad Hair Day\05 - The Alternative Polka.oggAug 12 19:05
DaemonFCheheAug 12 19:05
schestowitz 12 19:06
TechrightsBotTitle: First Trojan Hits Android Phones .::. Size~: 87.93 KBAug 12 19:06
schestowitzDaemonFC is back to windersAug 12 19:06
schestowitzSee?Aug 12 19:06
MinceRindeedAug 12 19:06
MinceRor never left itAug 12 19:06
schestowitzAnd telling jono/ubuntu what to doAug 12 19:06
schestowitzClassic trollAug 12 19:06
DaemonFCor maybe DaemonFC uses Foobar2000 in WineAug 12 19:07
DaemonFCbut yeah, I am on Windows 7 at the momentAug 12 19:07
DaemonFCwhy not?Aug 12 19:07
DaemonFCIf Linux isn't good enough for Ubuntu's community manager, why is it good enough for me?Aug 12 19:08
DaemonFCheheAug 12 19:08
schestowitzMinceR: He has lust for Ballmer tooAug 12 19:08
DaemonFCnow there's a proper trollingAug 12 19:08
schestowitzMinceR: uses him as his avatarAug 12 19:08
schestowitzDaemonFC: you're too incompetent for UNIX-type OSAug 12 19:08
DaemonFCnopeAug 12 19:08
schestowitzEnjoy the latest zero-dayAug 12 19:08
DaemonFCUNIX OS is too incompetent for meAug 12 19:08
schestowitzAssuming you're not already infectedAug 12 19:08
schestowitz 12 19:09
TechrightsBotTitle: Canonical explain the new Ubuntu census package - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.46 KBAug 12 19:09
schestowitzFrom Microsoft to Canonical to spying?Aug 12 19:09
schestowitzRick Spencer Aug 12 19:09
DaemonFCBeats the clusterfuck of improper hardware support and dicey application qualityAug 12 19:09
DaemonFCnow there's Level III trollingAug 12 19:09
MinceRi doubt we particularly need an introduction to your trolling style :>Aug 12 19:10
DaemonFCThat is why Jono Bacon is using Windows 7Aug 12 19:10
DaemonFCright?Aug 12 19:10
DaemonFCit doesn't support his hardwareAug 12 19:10
DaemonFCand doesn't have the applications he needsAug 12 19:11
DaemonFCper JonoAug 12 19:11
schestowitzViata 7 helps the enfvironmentAug 12 19:11
DaemonFChe put out all the troll bait that the Linsux people will EVER needAug 12 19:11
schestowitzIt heats it up in preparation to the ice age in ryan's brainAug 12 19:11
DaemonFCwhen he put up a Microsoft adAug 12 19:11
schestowitzSmall brain, but still, it functions. Sometimes.Aug 12 19:11
schestowitzIt's a good absorbent... for FoxAug 12 19:12
DaemonFCI don't have FoxAug 12 19:12
DaemonFCI deleted them from my channel lineupAug 12 19:12
DaemonFCalong with all the womens channelsAug 12 19:12
DaemonFCnothing against the friendly Gynosauruses Aug 12 19:13
schestowitz 12 19:13
TechrightsBotTitle: Android virus sends premium rate texts - .::. Size~: 111.01 KBAug 12 19:13
schestowitzAnd RoydAug 12 19:13
DaemonFCbut I'm not a menstrual old hag watching feminazi crap I pay for with alimony checksAug 12 19:13
DaemonFCso those channels are wholly inappropriate for my demographicAug 12 19:14
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 19:14
schestowitzwhat demography?Aug 12 19:14
schestowitzRacist?Aug 12 19:14
DaemonFCnahAug 12 19:14
schestowitzTroll demograhy?Aug 12 19:14
DaemonFCmaybe sometimesAug 12 19:15
schestowitz 12 19:15
schestowitzGo readAug 12 19:15
TechrightsBotTitle: Q&A with Richard Stallman - smartphones, Richard Stallman, internet filtering, gnu, Free Software Foundation, Android - Computerworld .::. Size~: 82.43 KBAug 12 19:15
schestowitzQuote mind, you trollAug 12 19:15
schestowitzquote-mineAug 12 19:15
schestowitzRMS has helped your father stop harming people :-)Aug 12 19:16
DaemonFChow is that?Aug 12 19:18
schestowitzBulldozersAug 12 19:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @linuxfoundation: Great report from @TheTechScribe on Eben Moglen's #linuxcon keynote: 12 19:20
DaemonFCoh, those aren't peopleAug 12 19:22
DaemonFCso that's OKAug 12 19:22
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 19:22
DaemonFCMaybe I should go to the cheap dollar store and assemble a care package of soap, shampoo, razors, and shave cream for RMSAug 12 19:24
DaemonFCand maybe I can find a callous stone and some antifungal foot spray tooAug 12 19:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Today I got another Android Tablet for development purpose. #android , 200 dollar tablet. #blogAug 12 19:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Burning SchoolOS DVDs for free media Distribution #blogAug 12 19:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Mr A Raja (Union Minister for IT & Communications, GoI) appreciated in OLPC #blogAug 12 19:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] OLPC should purchase 1 million laptop from Govt of India #blogAug 12 19:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Why I am sending SchoolOS ISO image and not DVD #udit #blogAug 12 19:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Today I got another Android Tablet for development purpose. #android , 200 dollar tablet. .::. Size~: 83.57 KBAug 12 19:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Burning SchoolOS DVDs for free media Distribution .::. Size~: 84.13 KBAug 12 19:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Mr A Raja (Union Minister for IT & Communications, GoI) appreciated in OLPC .::. Size~: 83.67 KBAug 12 19:25
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: OLPC should purchase 1 million laptop from Govt of India .::. Size~: 86.35 KBAug 12 19:25
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Why I am sending SchoolOS ISO image and not DVD #udit .::. Size~: 84.16 KBAug 12 19:25
DaemonFCschestowitz, I'm confused, why did they put in a picture of Grigori Rasputin?Aug 12 19:25
DaemonFCB-)Aug 12 19:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Facts about our network neutrality policy proposal - Google tries a little spin..I'm still not buying it #netneutralityAug 12 19:26
TechrightsBotTitle: Official Google Blog: Facts about our network neutrality policy proposal .::. Size~: 69.07 KBAug 12 19:26
DaemonFC"KDE integrates webkit", so now they have two file browsers, a web browser with two incompatible engines, and three applications that can play a CD Aug 12 19:29
DaemonFCdoes Konqueror still refuse to load Flash?Aug 12 19:30
MinceRdoes it hurt you that there's another tool around for the task at hand?Aug 12 19:30
DaemonFCand if you load Webkit and manage to get Flash running, is there still an invisible window that pops open for no reason?Aug 12 19:31
*Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)Aug 12 19:31
DaemonFCWhy have KSCD?Aug 12 19:32
DaemonFCAll it does is play a CD, which Dragon Player, and Amarok can doAug 12 19:32
DaemonFCand furthermore, why have Dragon Player instead of upgrading Amarok to play videos?Aug 12 19:32
amarsh04I was using kscd to input submissions, but abcde works betterAug 12 19:33
DaemonFChaving a native Linux application with the power of Foobar2000 seems like a pointless thing to hold out forAug 12 19:33
DaemonFCkind of like waiting for an editor that improves on Edit.comAug 12 19:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Android Overtakes Apples in World-Wide Market Share According to Gartner - pretty significant #android #iphoneAug 12 19:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Android Overtakes Apples in World-Wide Market Share According to Gartner | Android Phone Fans .::. Size~: 33.35 KBAug 12 19:34
MinceRsuch as qbasic.exe? :>Aug 12 19:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @ggreenwald How propagandists function: Exhibit A / transparent #war machine spiel "mainstreaming" #Iran attackAug 12 19:35
TechrightsBotTitle: How propagandists function:  Exhibit A - Glenn Greenwald - .::. Size~: 79.07 KBAug 12 19:35
DaemonFCMinceR, Seems to me that instead of hooking into a broken abstraction layer like Gstreamer, they could just depend on FAAC, FLAC, LAME, and Vorbis toolsAug 12 19:36
DaemonFCwhoever made K3B should make a media playerAug 12 19:36
DaemonFCbecause they obviously know what the hell they are doing Aug 12 19:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] USTR's Funny Definition Of Transparency: Next ACTA Negotiations Still Shrouded In Secrecy 12 19:37
TechrightsBotTitle: USTR's Funny Definition Of Transparency: Next ACTA Negotiations Still Shrouded In Secrecy | Techdirt .::. Size~: 21.08 KBAug 12 19:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've favourited a YouTube video -- Germ Theory Denialism 12 19:44
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Germ Theory Denialism .::. Size~: 115.27 KBAug 12 19:44
DaemonFCschestowitz, ThetansAug 12 19:45
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 12/8/2010: #MontaVista Meld Update, '$35 Tablet' Demo 12 19:49
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 12/8/2010: MontaVista Meld Update, $35 Tablet Demo | Techrights .::. Size~: 129.17 KBAug 12 19:49
*scientes ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 19:51
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Linguist on mission to save Inuit 'fossil language' disappearing with the ice - good move against depressing backgroundAug 12 19:57
TechrightsBotTitle: 404 Page not found .::. Size~: 19.52 KBAug 12 19:57
*scientes (~scientes@unaffiliated/scientes) has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 20:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eben Moglen: We Will Not Between Now and 2020 [Face] a Copyright Crisis But the Patent Crisis is Not Going Away #swpatsAug 12 20:15
TechrightsBotTitle: Eben Moglen: “We Will Not Between Now and 2020 [Face] a Copyright Crisis But the Patent Crisis is Not Going Away.” | Techrights .::. Size~: 91.39 KBAug 12 20:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] weird: that Guardian story on Inuit linguistics seems to have fallen through the ice...sorry about that....Aug 12 20:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Just booked for german cloud solutions. was already taken. hrmpf.Aug 12 20:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] luckily, @unhammer found this link (thanks): Linguist on mission to save Inuit 'fossil language' disappearing with iceAug 12 20:23
TechrightsBotTitle: Mission to save Inuit 'fossil language' | News | International News .::. Size~: 32.56 KBAug 12 20:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] ♺ @cdibona: We posted on our blog about the net neutrality thing. Please read? 12 20:36
TechrightsBotTitle: Google Public Policy Blog: Facts about our network neutrality policy proposal .::. Size~: 82.42 KBAug 12 20:36
DaemonFCMinceR, Are you aware of any Windows programs that can burn DMG files?Aug 12 20:37
MinceRnopeAug 12 20:37
DaemonFCor am I going to have to convert this thing somehowAug 12 20:37
MinceRi don't remember handling dmg files at allAug 12 20:37
DaemonFCwell, it's a Mac-related disk imageAug 12 20:37
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 20:37
DaemonFCinvolving my Hackintosh projectAug 12 20:38
DaemonFCit looks like Crapple actually did use a RadeonHD 4670 at one pointAug 12 20:40
DaemonFCso I should be able to use the vanilla kernelAug 12 20:40
DaemonFC"The 21.5-inch iMac offers fast graphics performance with either the ATI Radeon HD 4670 with 256MB of dedicated memory or the ATI Radeon HD 5670 with 512MB of memory."Aug 12 20:41
DaemonFCThose are "fast"?Aug 12 20:41
DaemonFCthat's budget level PC hardwareAug 12 20:41
DaemonFChell, my old 4670 has 1 GB on itAug 12 20:42
DaemonFCand the 5670 in this system also has 1 GBAug 12 20:42
DaemonFC:PAug 12 20:42
MinceRthe RDF makes it fastAug 12 20:42
MinceR:>Aug 12 20:42
DaemonFCTheir pictured game is Need For Speed CarbonAug 12 20:42
DaemonFCon Windows in 2006, it sucked, and is now jewel case for $9.99Aug 12 20:43
MinceRjust like crApple deciding to use an integrated GPU suddenly made integrated GPUs a valid choice according to crAppleAug 12 20:43
DaemonFCwonder how much the Mac version isAug 12 20:43
MinceRthey said those weren't viable beforehandAug 12 20:43
DaemonFCrightAug 12 20:43
DaemonFCthey used to have a custom-fit PCI bus Radeon 9800Aug 12 20:43
DaemonFCwith 64 MB of RAMAug 12 20:44
DaemonFCand they were making fun of integrated Intel GMAAug 12 20:44
DaemonFCwhich was actually faster even at that pointAug 12 20:44
MinceRlolAug 12 20:44
DaemonFCmy GMA at that point on a bargain basement HP has like 128 MB available to it from the system memoryAug 12 20:44
DaemonFCwhich was DDR 400 I thinkAug 12 20:45
DaemonFCso it was actually still faster than the dedicated vram on the Mac MiniAug 12 20:45
DaemonFCI remember laughing at thatAug 12 20:45
MinceRlaughing at is the only thing crApple is good forAug 12 20:45
DaemonFCwell, one of the points they made about discrete hardware wasn't even valid in their caseAug 12 20:46
DaemonFCyou can take it out yourself and upgrade it with a new cardAug 12 20:46
DaemonFChow do you do that when it has been custom fit to the Mac Mini's case?Aug 12 20:46
DaemonFCYou can take it out, but even a low profile PC card won't fitAug 12 20:47
DaemonFCso what will you upgrade it with?Aug 12 20:47
MinceRa new mac mini, of course :>Aug 12 20:48
DaemonFCof course!Aug 12 20:48
DaemonFCIt's upgradeable Aug 12 20:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Does Not Necessarily Break Insecurity Record #security #windows #spinAug 12 20:48
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft Does Not Necessarily Break Insecurity Record  | Techrights .::. Size~: 88.22 KBAug 12 20:48
DaemonFC1. Throw the entire unit in the trash.Aug 12 20:49
DaemonFC2. Buy new one from Apple.Aug 12 20:49
DaemonFCwasn't that easy?Aug 12 20:49
DaemonFC:DAug 12 20:49
MinceRthe same upgrade process for all crApple productsAug 12 20:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Just had lunch, now back to the recording, join the Severed Fifth album recording live at #severedfifthAug 12 20:52
TechrightsBotTitle: Severed Fifth: Live In The Studio on USTREAM: Tune in to watch the second Severed Fifth album as it is written, recorded and produced.. Rock .::. Size~: 89.46 KBAug 12 20:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Vote On Whether Or Not I Get To Speak At SXSW 12 21:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Vote On Whether Or Not I Get To Speak At SXSW | Techdirt .::. Size~: 26.69 KBAug 12 21:03
DaemonFCMinceR, You might get away with a proper hardware upgrade on a Mac ProAug 12 21:09
DaemonFCbut if you knew how, you'd just build your own PCAug 12 21:09
*DaemonFC replaces MinceR's mouse with an Apple Magic MouseAug 12 21:15
*MinceR refuses accessAug 12 21:15
*DaemonFC solders the Magic Mouse into one of MinceR's USB portsAug 12 21:17
DaemonFCB-)Aug 12 21:17
DaemonFChehAug 12 21:17
DaemonFCNeed For Speed Carbon is still $70 on the MacAug 12 21:17
DaemonFCvs $10 on WindowsAug 12 21:17
*MinceR still doesn't allow DaemonFC's grubby mitts near his equipmentAug 12 21:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The denial of stay in Prop 8. There's no "piss off" like a judge's "piss off." (PDF) HT @xlerbAug 12 21:17
TechrightsBotTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 12 21:17
MinceRthat's the idiot taxAug 12 21:18
DaemonFCyou could buy two Mac games, or for the difference in price, buy a copy of Windows and the Windows versionsAug 12 21:18
DaemonFC:PAug 12 21:18
DaemonFCwhere exactly does the Mac gain its users from?Aug 12 21:19
MinceRYankeestanAug 12 21:20
DaemonFCYou can't find software for them, they don't like a lot of PC hardwareAug 12 21:20
MinceRmostlyAug 12 21:20
DaemonFCsound like Linux for rich peopleAug 12 21:20
MinceRnope, Linux isn't nearly so brokenAug 12 21:20
MinceRor inflexibleAug 12 21:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Rob Tiller and A.J. Venter Explain Why Software Patents Are Bad, Apple Clarifies Patenting Software #swpatsAug 12 21:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Rob Tiller and A.J. Venter Explain Why Software Patents Are Bad, Apple Clarifies Patenting Other Peoples Software Ideas | Techrights .::. Size~: 97.43 KBAug 12 21:20
MinceRit also has better hw supportAug 12 21:20
DaemonFCwell, the Mac actually runs better on my Core 2 Duo PC than Linux doesAug 12 21:21
DaemonFCmeaning my GPU functions properlyAug 12 21:21
DaemonFCand my TV tuner card even worksAug 12 21:21
DaemonFCLinux has great DVR software and supports like two models of tuner card, neither one for sale in the USAug 12 21:22
MinceRthat's because crApple made the mistake of shipping ati crap a few timesAug 12 21:22
DaemonFCthat may be an exaggeration but it's the impression it left me withAug 12 21:22
MinceRstrangeAug 12 21:22
MinceRyou should check the docs of the bttv driver, for exampleAug 12 21:22
MinceRthat list in itself is already a lot longer than 2 entriesAug 12 21:22
MinceRactually, both listsAug 12 21:22
MinceR(DAC chip and tuner chip)Aug 12 21:22
MinceRthen there's the saa-something driverAug 12 21:23
DaemonFCthe manufacturer of mine suggested using Ubuntu 8.04Aug 12 21:23
DaemonFCand their blobAug 12 21:23
MinceRand these are only the analog cardsAug 12 21:23
DaemonFCwhen I complained that Ubuntu 10.04 didn't recognize itAug 12 21:23
DaemonFCThey apparently don't support this card anymoreAug 12 21:24
DaemonFCand won't be updating their blob to work with modern distrosAug 12 21:24
DaemonFCthat's a nice rub isn't it?Aug 12 21:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Reporters Sans Fact-checking Washington has issued some idiot statement, based on a bunch of quotes we never made.Aug 12 21:24
DaemonFC"Buy our card, we support Linux!"Aug 12 21:24
DaemonFC2 years later.... "Buy a new card, we don't support that card anymore!"Aug 12 21:25
MinceRwell, there's a company who supports Linux, but you hate themAug 12 21:25
MinceRand their GPUs :>Aug 12 21:25
DaemonFCthey never made a Windows 7 driverAug 12 21:25
DaemonFCbut the one for Vista worksAug 12 21:25
DaemonFCishAug 12 21:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] RSF is peeved over reactionary modifications to the proposed Federal source protection bill. We are too, but get your facts right.Aug 12 21:25
MinceRand there's another that supports Linux to some extent via binary blobsAug 12 21:25
DaemonFC:PAug 12 21:25
DaemonFCI think Nvidia's hardware is crapAug 12 21:26
DaemonFCyou're rightAug 12 21:26
DaemonFCtotal, utter, complete, crapAug 12 21:26
DaemonFCand it's overpricedAug 12 21:26
MinceRi think that ati's products are crapAug 12 21:27
MinceRand they've been so for agesAug 12 21:27
*MinceR remembers the DOS apps warning that there's one chip they don't work with: ATI Mach64Aug 12 21:27
DaemonFCyeah, Apple laughs all the way to the bank I'm sureAug 12 21:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Can't Apple owners understand 'jailbreak' means you start the devices life as a prisoner in Apple's cells?Aug 12 21:27
DaemonFCselling budget PC hardware at premium pricesAug 12 21:28
DaemonFCwith an OS they took most of from open source projectsAug 12 21:28
DaemonFCApple is worse than MicrosoftAug 12 21:28
DaemonFCway worseAug 12 21:28
DaemonFCmoving over to the Mac is like asking for tighter handcuffsAug 12 21:29
MinceRi prefer no handcuffsAug 12 21:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Free speech is never free. Keep WikiLeaks strong: 12 21:29
TechrightsBotTitle: Support WikiLeaks - WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 19.99 KBAug 12 21:29
DaemonFCMinceR, Why exactly did Rosetta (the PPC emulator in OS X) need a TPM?Aug 12 21:30
MinceRdunnoAug 12 21:30
DaemonFCthey sent out the developer OS X that ran on real PCs, but said if there was no TPM, then Rosetta wouldn't workAug 12 21:30
*scientes has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Aug 12 21:31
MinceRmost likely DRMAug 12 21:32
DaemonFCseems someone figured out how to make the ipad more usefulAug 12 21:35
DaemonFC 12 21:35
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Windows 95 on iPad .::. Size~: 96.97 KBAug 12 21:35
DaemonFC 12 21:36
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Apple iPad running Windows 7 .::. Size~: 109.32 KBAug 12 21:36
DaemonFCis that real?Aug 12 21:36
DaemonFCoh, it's jsut vncAug 12 21:37
DaemonFCcheap!Aug 12 21:37
DaemonFClame!Aug 12 21:37
DaemonFCMinceR, I suspect schestowitz is also Captain Frosted Flakes on LinsuxAug 12 21:40
DaemonFCand that his other personality takes over from time to timeAug 12 21:40
DaemonFCB-)Aug 12 21:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Someone needs to do Gimp'd Lemmings shots with the Apple logo as the goalAug 12 21:41
DaemonFCerrAug 12 21:41
DaemonFCFrakesAug 12 21:41
DaemonFC 12 21:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Prisoner of iTunes - the iPad file transfer horror • The Register .::. Size~: 28.18 KBAug 12 21:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @crosbie #FCC Chairman Genachowski owns a poultry farm called #NetNeutrality and his turkeys are demanding he bring them to the .. table.Aug 12 21:48
DaemonFC 12 21:48
TechrightsBotTitle: Steve Jobs Offers World 'Freedom From Porn' .::. Size~: 82.6 KBAug 12 21:48
DaemonFCFreedom!!!Aug 12 21:48
DaemonFCHooray!Aug 12 21:49
MinceRi'd rather have Freedom From Steve Jobs, thank you very muchAug 12 21:49
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Anti-Piracy Failure Takes Down Creative Commons Videos 12 21:50
TechrightsBotTitle:    Anti-Piracy Failure Takes Down Creative Commons Videos | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 41.62 KBAug 12 21:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] 1/5th of Pakistan is now under water. I feel so sorry for the people of Pakistan.Aug 12 21:55
*ThistleWeb has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Aug 12 21:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Do you get a free portion of Freedom Fries with your iGadget?Aug 12 21:56
*OsamaK (~Osama@fsf/member/osamak) has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 21:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Continues to Distort the Word 'Open' and Harm #SVG Using Proprietary #VML #odf #ooxml #opencoreAug 12 21:57
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft Continues to Distort the Word Open and Harm SVG Using Proprietary VML | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.89 KBAug 12 21:57
MinceRgnAug 12 22:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Righthaven Continues To Stretch The Meaning Of Copyright Law In Filing Lawsuits 12 22:14
TechrightsBotTitle: Righthaven Continues To Stretch The Meaning Of Copyright Law In Filing Lawsuits | Techdirt .::. Size~: 23.06 KBAug 12 22:14
*Chips_B_Malroy ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 22:19
Chips_B_MalroyHello RoyAug 12 22:19
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, I have a bunch of links and stuff to post, would you rather I post them here, or PM them to you?Aug 12 22:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 12 22:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Amazon EC2 Has Just Become Even More Infected With Microsoft Patent Tax on Linux (Ballnux Added) | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.31 KBAug 12 22:24
Chips_B_MalroyThese are a long series of posts relating to the ecominic colaspe and MicrosoftAug 12 22:27
*jweyrich ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 12 22:27
Chips_B_Malroy  Chaos in U.S. markets on trade deficit, global dataAug 12 22:27
TechrightsBotTitle: Chaos in U.S. markets on trade deficit, global data .::. Size~: 87.18 KBAug 12 22:27
Chips_B_Malroy"Stocks were deeply in the red Wednesday after the U.S. trade deficit widened unexpectedly and a string of weak economic reports from Asia and Europe heightened concerns that the global recovery is veering off track."Aug 12 22:28
Chips_B_Malroy"The Dow Jones industrial average plummeted 265 points, or 2.49 percent, with all 30 component stocks lower. The Nasdaq closed down more than 3 percent and the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index was off 2.82 percent. Stocks across a broad range of industries, from aerospace and technology to retail, declined despite strong earnings reports from large companies."Aug 12 22:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Amazon EC2 Has Just Become Even More Infected With #Microsoft ‘Patent Tax’ on #Linux (Ballnux Added) #swpats #suseAug 12 22:28
TechrightsBotTitle: Amazon EC2 Has Just Become Even More Infected With Microsoft Patent Tax on Linux (Ballnux Added) | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.31 KBAug 12 22:28
Chips_B_Malroy 12 22:28
TechrightsBotTitle: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.12 KBAug 12 22:29
Chips_B_Malroy"Given the uneven rebound in the United States, and now signs that the world?s other economic engines are slowing, economists say Americans may confront high unemployment and lackluster growth for some time to come."Aug 12 22:29
Chips_B_Malroy"With the Chinese economy slowing, and European governments tightening their belts to bring down worrisome budget deficits, the fear is that the United States economy will get far less help from overseas than many people had expected."Aug 12 22:29
Chips_B_Malroymy comment:   What this means, is that the Chinese, are the major  suppliers of computer hardware for most of the world's market.  Any slowdown on computer sales, will affect the bottom line at Microsoft.Aug 12 22:30
Chips_B_Malroy 12 22:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Oakland Tribune (AP) Online .::. Size~: 80.75 KBAug 12 22:30
Chips_B_Malroy"Claims could also be rising because of large job cuts by state and local governments, which are struggling with unprecedented budget gaps. State and local governments cut 48,000 jobs in July, the most in a year."Aug 12 22:30
Chips_B_Malroy 12 22:31
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft: ignore PC sales slump 'chatter' • The Register .::. Size~: 27.23 KBAug 12 22:31
Chips_B_Malroy"Microsoft has downplayed "chatter" about a looming slowdown in PC sales hurting Windows 7 and its business in general.Aug 12 22:31
Chips_B_MalroyExecutives have separately told Wall St investors that they shouldn't be worried about what they're hearing, and that Microsoft ? which gets a third of its annual business from sales of Windows on PCs ? is fine."Aug 12 22:31
Chips_B_Malroy"Koefoed was speaking after JP Morgan analyst Christopher Danely said that HP and Acer have cut orders to suppliers of semiconductors. He said that orders are unlikely to pick up, due to the presence of increased numbers of PCs in the supply chain combined with weakening demand in the US, Europe and China."Aug 12 22:31
Chips_B_Malroy"Microsoft now expects that revenue for its Windows Division will grow roughly in line with PC shipments for the current first quarter and full year.Aug 12 22:31
Chips_B_MalroyAny slowdown would put a major crimp in that projection and Microsoft's business."Aug 12 22:31
Chips_B_Malroy  Bill Gates Sells $51.1M Worth of MicrosoftAug 12 22:32
TechrightsBotTitle: Bill Gates Sells $51.1M Worth of Microsoft - TheStreet .::. Size~: 87.45 KBAug 12 22:32
Chips_B_Malroymy comment:  Like a rat deserting a sinking ship?Aug 12 22:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] In the Words of the Daughter of Microsoft's PR Spammer Pam Edstrom #pr #marketing #windows #WaggenerEdstromAug 12 22:32
TechrightsBotTitle: In the Words of the Daughter of Microsofts PR Spammer Pam Edstrom | Techrights .::. Size~: 88.24 KBAug 12 22:32
Chips_B_Malroy  Microsoft stock drops as Wall Street sweats PC declineAug 12 22:33
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft stock drops as Wall Street sweats PC decline .::. Size~: 65.33 KBAug 12 22:33
Chips_B_Malroy"The same decline that hit Intel and Apple on Tuesday also hit Microsoft, and it was getting worse Wednesday morning. Microsoft's share price has dropped more than $1 since the markets closed Monday, including an approximate 2 percent drop Wednesday already."Aug 12 22:33
Chips_B_Malroy"Standard & Poor's equity analyst Jim Yin lowered his rating on Microsoft stock Wednesday to "hold" from "buy," and cut his price target from $35 to $31. MSFT was trading at about $24.60 as of 10 a.m. PDT."Aug 12 22:33
Chips_B_Malroy"Inventories of some PC components such as hard disk drives have been rising, indicating to us that some PC manufacturers have already seen weaker demand. Slower economic growth will most likely delay a PC refresh cycle."Aug 12 22:34
Chips_B_Malroy  Say Goodbye to the Xbox Brand if Kinect Fails at Retail Aug 12 22:34
Chips_B_Malroy"Now the company is launching a new peripheral called Kinect (formerly Project Natal) which aims to compete head-to-head with Sony?s own Playstation Move motion controller. The hitch to this little endeavor however is that it?s for a console that many developers feel is nearing its peak performance already. Another problem is that the best market for the Xbox brand, North America, has already been saturated with the XboxAug 12 22:34
Chips_B_Malroy360. That might sound like a good thing at first, but the downside is that once your best market has purchased your product, they?ll eventually move onto another product. This has proven to be true with the recent surge of the Playstation 3 in the Western markets."Aug 12 22:34
Chips_B_Malroy 12 22:35
TechrightsBotTitle: Android Big Winner as Smartphone Sales Increase 50 Percent - PCWorld .::. Size~: 69.89 KBAug 12 22:35
Chips_B_Malroy  Early take on India's $35 tablet: 'Fairly impressive'Aug 12 22:35
TechrightsBotTitle: Early take on India's $35 tablet: 'Fairly impressive' | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 136.84 KBAug 12 22:35
Chips_B_Malroy"While originally presented as a Linux device, the prototype on the show runs on Android (and handles the operating system "fairly smoothly," the surprised Gurus say). It has a virtual keyboard, camera, full video capability, Wi-Fi for browsing that the Gurus found to be "simple and quick," an e-reader, and 2GB RAM. They say the touch screen is a bit slow to respond. All in all, though, they call it a "fairly impressive Aug 12 22:35
Chips_B_Malroylittle package," particularly for the price, and a game changer for India and possibly beyond."Aug 12 22:35
_GoblinChips_B_Malroy: Microsoft have to think of ways to drag out the 360 for a few more years...they've only just started to make money on it.Aug 12 22:36
Chips_B_Malroy  The $35 tablet isn't hogwashAug 12 22:36
Chips_B_MalroyDevice has potential to lower the prices of tablets globallyAug 12 22:36
TechrightsBotTitle: The $35 tablet isn't hogwash | News | TechRadar UK .::. Size~: 67.28 KBAug 12 22:36
Chips_B_Malroy"While the media disses and dismisses the ultra low-cost tablet, Microsoft and Google are apparently fighting a pitched battle to place their operating systems on the device aimed at school children of the world. Microsoft has come forth and offered its Windows CE OS to run on the device which currently runs Google's open source Android OS."Aug 12 22:36
Chips_B_MalroyFrom chips b malroy:  If this device comes out for sale around the world, it will be a major disaster for Microsoft.  Perhaps even spelling the near end of MS.  If it comes out with CE on it, it will still not provide MS with income. But worse if it comes out with Android, and users see an OS without all the stability and malware problems of Windows.Aug 12 22:37
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, agreed they want to keep selling Xbox360's, as this is the only way they will get back some of their early loses on it.Aug 12 22:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] This is why @wikileaks must be supported: 12 22:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @jwildeboer seems like #Googlespin - new meme like #failwaveAug 12 22:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] RT @thomasbeagle: NZ officials confirmed that the ACTA meeting in Washington will be a full five-day negotiating round.Aug 12 22:37
TechrightsBotTitle: Over half your news is spin | Crikey .::. Size~: 86.94 KBAug 12 22:37
DaemonFC 12 22:38
TechrightsBotTitle: Judge gives the green light for same-sex marriage in California - .::. Size~: 46.92 KBAug 12 22:38
DaemonFCyayAug 12 22:38
Chips_B_MalroyAnyway, maybe Roy can or cannot use some of that.Aug 12 22:38
_GoblinLinux action show.....Aug 12 22:39
_Goblinwon't be listening againAug 12 22:39
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DaemonFC 12 22:40
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Chips_B_MalroyAndroid seems to be like the Terminator, neither Apple or Microsoft seem to be able to stop or slow it down.Aug 12 22:40
Chips_B_MalroyBottom line, Microsoft has nothing but pain ahead of it, as the global ecomony tanks further into Depression, and computer sales slow, increased competition from Android, and cheaper computers being sold.Aug 12 22:43
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] I'm back home from #Linuxcon Great show, I wasn't able to get much writing there, but it gave me many good stories to write in coming days.Aug 12 22:49
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DaemonFC 12 22:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Mozilla Firefox 4 Beta Release Notes .::. Size~: 39.85 KBAug 12 22:50
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Chips_B_Malroywhats with all the net splits?Aug 12 22:51
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*schestowitz will merge missing bitsAug 12 22:51
schestowitz[22:44] <schestowitz> [22:19] <Chips_B_Malroy> Hello RoyAug 12 22:52
schestowitz[22:44] <schestowitz> HelloAug 12 22:52
schestowitz[22:44] <Chips_B_Malroy> Hey RoyAug 12 22:52
schestowitz[22:44] <Chips_B_Malroy> I posted all the links and stuffAug 12 22:52
schestowitzYeah, I'm catching upAug 12 22:52
schestowitz[22:45] <Chips_B_Malroy> would you rather that I PM them to you or as a text, would that be easier for you?Aug 12 22:52
schestowitz[22:45] [Notice] -BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [sjvn] Desktop Linux Reviews Now has a discussion forum. #LinuxAug 12 22:52
schestowitzAug 12 22:52
schestowitz[22:46] <Chips_B_Malroy> that is, if the links and quotes help?Aug 12 22:52
TechrightsBotTitle: Desktop Linux Reviews Forum .::. Size~: 43.27 KBAug 12 22:52
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Chips_B_MalroyI think I am missing a part of this conversation, at least the important parts, due to net splitsAug 12 22:55
schestowitzThu, 12 Aug 2010 14:30:21 PDT:[_Goblin] won't be listening againAug 12 22:55
schestowitzMe neitherAug 12 22:55
schestowitzI wrote about them before, I find them rude and FSF hostileAug 12 22:56
schestowitzOne of them uses Windows in fact :-)Aug 12 22:56
schestowitzAnd slams LinuxAug 12 22:56
schestowitzBut they are good on audio, as broadcastersAug 12 22:56
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: I checked from 3 clientsAug 12 22:57
schestowitzAnd merged everythingAug 12 22:57
schestowitzSo what you see after the split includes all that I got from three placesAug 12 22:57
schestowitzBTW, does anyone here use xchat?Aug 12 22:58
Chips_B_MalroyI use konversationAug 12 22:58
*schestowitz wonders what tessier usesAug 12 22:58
tessierI use irssi mostly laetlyAug 12 22:58
tessierlatelyAug 12 22:58
schestowitzWe need someone to just take logs for a few days when I'm offlineAug 12 22:58
tessierAlthough I have used xchat tonsAug 12 22:58
tessierI can do that.Aug 12 22:58
schestowitzin xchat log formatAug 12 22:59
schestowitzThanks!Aug 12 22:59
tessierohAug 12 22:59
tessierOk, I can do that tooAug 12 22:59
tessierLet me fire up xchat...Aug 12 22:59
schestowitzNot yet though, just next weekAug 12 22:59
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schestowitzThanks.Aug 12 22:59
*tessier figures out how to make xchat take logsAug 12 22:59
tessierWhat channels? All of them?Aug 12 23:00
schestowitzMy machine has been online non-step since July 2008 when I bought itAug 12 23:00
schestowitztessier: yes, all three if possibleAug 12 23:00
tessierI've had an IRC client online pretty much continuously since 1993 :)Aug 12 23:00
schestowitzxchat keeps logs in ~/.xchat2/.... by defaultAug 12 23:00
schestowitztessier: TechrightsBot keeps logs too, but not in a format I can processAug 12 23:01
tessierMy xchat wasn't logging by default. I just enabled it.Aug 12 23:01
schestowitzI have a python program that prases the logs in xchat format to produce something with deep links (#time)Aug 12 23:01
schestowitztessier: ah, thanks!Aug 12 23:02
tessierAug 12 14:53:06 <schestowitz>tessier: ah, thanks!Aug 12 23:02
tessierYep, it's working.Aug 12 23:02
tessierDoes that look like the format you need?Aug 12 23:02
schestowitztessier: there will be an article about Techrights in a British magazine soonAug 12 23:02
schestowitzYou're mentioned tooAug 12 23:02
schestowitzin /Linux Format/Aug 12 23:02
DaemonFC%AppData%/X-Chat 2Aug 12 23:02
DaemonFC:PAug 12 23:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: Windows seems like a minority OS here :-)Aug 12 23:03
jweyrichmostly non-existent.Aug 12 23:03
schestowitzinstructions for Windows users go in footnotesAug 12 23:03
DaemonFCoh right, well in your user folder under some stupid .folderAug 12 23:04
DaemonFCthere you goAug 12 23:04
Chips_B_Malroyonly thing windows users want to know is how to remove malwareAug 12 23:04
DaemonFCI haven't come across anyAug 12 23:04
DaemonFCUnless it's the magic malware that just pops into existence from the voidAug 12 23:05
Chips_B_Malroywell, I did not mean that this site hosted windows malwareAug 12 23:05
DaemonFC 12 23:05
Chips_B_Malroyit was general statementAug 12 23:05
TechrightsBotTitle: Malware Hidden Inside Screensaver On Gnome-Look | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 66.29 KBAug 12 23:05
DaemonFCOMG MALWARE!Aug 12 23:05
DaemonFCheheAug 12 23:05
schestowitzWow. People can install bad softwareAug 12 23:06
schestowitzShockerAug 12 23:06
schestowitzNews at 11Aug 12 23:06
jweyrichubuntu is not a parameter for Linux distribution.Aug 12 23:06
DaemonFCit could have just as easily been an RPMAug 12 23:06
schestowitzLinux does not detect bad activity on the flyAug 12 23:06
schestowitzIt sandboxes it and keeps a repository as circle of trustAug 12 23:06
DaemonFCrightAug 12 23:06
schestowitzMozilla has https used for pluginsAug 12 23:06
schestowitzAnd I know of just one bad pluginAug 12 23:06
Chips_B_Malroygo to someplace like and the top downloads are mostly for security of windows systems.  That says a lot for Microsoft.  Err, I should say, it says little for MS.Aug 12 23:07
schestowitzSome korean extension which few people actually usedAug 12 23:07
DaemonFCthat helps when all it wants s to turn your high speed connection into a rapid fire spam toolAug 12 23:07
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 23:07
DaemonFCwhich it can easily do as youAug 12 23:07
DaemonFCor steal your dataAug 12 23:07
DaemonFCso the purpose for most malware can easily be achieved with a standard user account on LinuxAug 12 23:07
DaemonFCit's generally not interested in trashing your PCAug 12 23:07
DaemonFCall it has to do is run and spew spamAug 12 23:08
tessierschestowitz: Cool!Aug 12 23:08
jweyrichLinux has many malwares too. We must recognize the threats. But it's just more difficult in many ways for a Linux malware to cause real damages to the system than on Windows.Aug 12 23:08
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DaemonFCa trojan can run and spew spam, and start up automatically at bootAug 12 23:08
DaemonFCall as a userAug 12 23:08
schestowitz[22:27] <Chips_B_Malroy> These are a long series of posts relating to the ecominic colaspe and MicrosoftAug 12 23:08
jweyrichwhich doesn't cause system damages.Aug 12 23:08
DaemonFCso?Aug 12 23:08
schestowitzI posted some of these items yesterday (Exact same ones)Aug 12 23:08
DaemonFCit still sucksAug 12 23:08
jweyrichof course it sucks, no system is bullet proof.Aug 12 23:09
DaemonFCLinux machiens are easy to turn into a zombie if you can trick the user into running some random file off the internetAug 12 23:09
jweyrichsame is true for windows.Aug 12 23:09
DaemonFCWindows is easy to turn into a zombie if you can trick the user to run a random program off the internetAug 12 23:09
DaemonFCrightAug 12 23:09
DaemonFCso where's the Linux advantage?Aug 12 23:09
Chips_B_MalroyI red in the logs what oiaohm was saying about Ubuntu, Wine, and Android, and I must say, I think he has nailed it.Aug 12 23:09
DaemonFCsome dumbass with a copy of Ubuntu is a software target than Windows XP all of a suddenAug 12 23:10
jweyrichdid I say it has advantages? :-) it's a matter of taste these days.Aug 12 23:10
DaemonFCbecause they don't even have a chance at being warned about the fileAug 12 23:10
jweyrichI prefer not to pay for Microsoft for a buggy system if I can get a free one, which is good too.Aug 12 23:10
DaemonFC*softerAug 12 23:10
jweyrichand of course, open source, so I can alter any way I want, if I want.Aug 12 23:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] In spite of Mark Hurd's misadventures, life will go on at HP, by @ron_miller. 12 23:10
TechrightsBotTitle: Life will go on at HP - by Ron Miller .::. Size~: 45.53 KBAug 12 23:10
DaemonFCThe Mac isn't secure eitherAug 12 23:11
DaemonFCApple is having to sneak around and insert an antivirus engine into the OSAug 12 23:11
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> Windows is easy to turn into a zombie if you can trick the user to run a random program off the internet"  Windows is a zombie even without malware in it, as MS controls it through many back doors.Aug 12 23:11
DaemonFCwithout making an issue of the fact that it's what they've doneAug 12 23:11
jweyrichif systems were autonomous, they would be much more secure.. well, more advanced users take good care of it too.Aug 12 23:11
schestowitz[22:31] <TechrightsBot> Title: Microsoft: ignore PC sales slump 'chatter' • The Register .::. Size~: 27.23 KBAug 12 23:12
DaemonFCSnow Leopard only has a few malware signatures it looks for, but the fact is that the engine is in placeAug 12 23:12
schestowitzMicrosoft GavinAug 12 23:12
schestowitzHe does their 'damage control'Aug 12 23:12
DaemonFCand the signature count will only go up if the Mac becomes more popularAug 12 23:12
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, the big slump in PC sale for MS is about to happenAug 12 23:12
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzAug 12 23:12
DaemonFCand then you'll have the same arms race that Windows users deal withAug 12 23:12
Chips_B_Malroythe economy is tanking big timeAug 12 23:12
jweyrichthe amount of existing malwares is, in no way a not a good index for system security.Aug 12 23:12
DaemonFCmalware disables antivirus, antivirus implements self defense process Aug 12 23:13
DaemonFCmalware figures out how to look for the self defense process and kills that tooAug 12 23:13
DaemonFCantivirus has to make sure it's the first thing that starts and immediately hooks into the kernelAug 12 23:13
DaemonFCadd 20 seconds to your boot timeAug 12 23:13
DaemonFClolAug 12 23:13
Chips_B_Malroythe govs of this world are worried about revenue now, and layoff gov workers.  They are the ones tanking the economy now.Aug 12 23:13
jweyrichthe problem is those who don't touch AVs, thus aren't counterattacked.Aug 12 23:13
DaemonFCThe problem is that the very worst antivirus companies have the OEM trialware contractsAug 12 23:15
Chips_B_MalroyWell, looks like I did enough damage here for one day, later all.Aug 12 23:15
DaemonFCand users end up registering for bullshit like Norton or McAfee Aug 12 23:15
jweyrichI found serious bugs on mcafee two years ago. it's so weird.Aug 12 23:15
DaemonFCwhich is beyond worthlessAug 12 23:15
DaemonFCand slows the system down, a lotAug 12 23:15
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jweyrichfilesystem filter is a fuck* nightmareAug 12 23:15
DaemonFCWindows has a standard API that antivirus programs can plug intoAug 12 23:16
DaemonFCthey don't have to set filesystem traps anymoreAug 12 23:16
jweyrichsince Vista, I guess.Aug 12 23:16
DaemonFCwhich is nice since those can go horribly awry and blue screen the systemAug 12 23:16
*jweyrich never used Win>XP.Aug 12 23:16
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DaemonFCtrapping file system calls is dangerous Aug 12 23:17
DaemonFCbecause there's literally no supported way of doing itAug 12 23:17
jweyrichin what way you mean?Aug 12 23:17
DaemonFCand if you screw up it will cause data lossAug 12 23:17
jweyrichah, yes.Aug 12 23:17
jweyrichbut it's very common on security.Aug 12 23:17
DaemonFCthe standard API is much betterAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCof course like you said, XP does not have thisAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCso antivirus programs, the decent ones anyway, support both methodsAug 12 23:20
jweyrichuntil XP there was none API to do all sort of things AVs and antimalwared needed.Aug 12 23:20
DaemonFCand use the standard API if presentAug 12 23:20
jweyrichantimalwares*Aug 12 23:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Why waste time debating about Public vs. Private Cloud? By @ron_miller. 12 23:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Public versus Private Cloud Not Worth Debating | Novell User Communities .::. Size~: 59.52 KBAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCright, and if you installed things like third party firewall software, it had to plug into the TCP/IP stack itselfAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCand this could corrupt operating system files or settingsAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCand frequently didAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCnow there's a packet filtering API that all firewall software can plug intoAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCagain, introduced in VistaAug 12 23:20
jweyrichyou should take a look on those banking processes that block keyloggers/spywares. they just infect every single process on your system and patch the IAT.Aug 12 23:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Is Microsoft counting on mobile gaming to save Windows Phone 7? By @pgralla Me: So not going to matter.Aug 12 23:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @TheTechScribe: How the open source community could save your life | #LinuxCon Me: Important story.Aug 12 23:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Is Microsoft counting on mobile gaming to save Windows Phone 7? - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 59.39 KBAug 12 23:20
TechrightsBotTitle: How the open source community could save your life | .::. Size~: 44.86 KBAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCso the chances that security software will royally fuck over your system is not as bad as it used to beAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCprovided they use the standard interfaces providedAug 12 23:20
DaemonFCMicrosoft Security Essentials uses the documented API as wellAug 12 23:20
jweyrichDaemonFC: do you know the name of this firewall API? on <=xp I always used WPF.Aug 12 23:21
DaemonFCit's nice when they aren't using undocumented API and leaving everyone else to jsut figure something out for themselvesAug 12 23:21
DaemonFCWindows Filtering Platform or somethingAug 12 23:21
jweyrichyeah. WPF.Aug 12 23:21
DaemonFCI don't believe it existed on XPAug 12 23:21
DaemonFCdid it?Aug 12 23:21
schestowitz[22:38] <TechrightsBot> Title: Judge gives the green light for same-sex marriage in California - .::. Size~: 46.92 KB      < so you can marry Jabba in the West Coast nowAug 12 23:21
jweyrichyep.Aug 12 23:21
DaemonFCI never noticedAug 12 23:21
DaemonFCI've always had a modem/router with iptables thoughAug 12 23:22
DaemonFCso I've never really had any reason to find out I guessAug 12 23:22
jweyrichyeah, that's one thin I find pretty easier on Linux/Unix than Windows. firewalling.Aug 12 23:22
jweyrichthing*Aug 12 23:22
DaemonFCright, fine grained control over everything and an application can't just decide to let itself through if it has an administrator hat at the momentAug 12 23:23
DaemonFCwhich isn't terribly difficult to trick the user into giving itAug 12 23:23
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 23:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: don't get your news from CNN, it's rubbishAug 12 23:23
DaemonFCWindows 7's auto elevate thing isn't much different than what OS X has always doneAug 12 23:24
jweyrichDaemonFC: if you like it, just implement a pluggable signal handler for BPF or at the firewall level.Aug 12 23:24
DaemonFCusers have to give their password to install software on OS XAug 12 23:24
DaemonFCbut launching administrative control panel applets doesn't make you do thatAug 12 23:24
jweyrichright, win7 copied OSX. not news.Aug 12 23:25
jweyrichit doesn't do by default, but you can enable it.Aug 12 23:25
DaemonFCwell, Windows also looks at whether or not the user initiated the action I believeAug 12 23:25
DaemonFCI don't think OS X does that, anything that grabs the mouse cursor can open a control appletAug 12 23:26
DaemonFCI've tried doing that on Windows 7 with a mouse emulation programAug 12 23:26
DaemonFCand it prompts if you try it that wayAug 12 23:26
jweyrichopening an control applet doesn't mean anything. changing system configs yep.Aug 12 23:27
DaemonFCof course systems with a lot of if/or/and rules are more prone to attackAug 12 23:27
DaemonFCit would be safer to just do like Vista did and ask for confirmation to open those appletsAug 12 23:28
DaemonFCbut that annoyed many usersAug 12 23:28
jweyrichsure, and let the user click YES because it's insanely irritated with those popups which he doesn't even know what mean.Aug 12 23:28
DaemonFCrightAug 12 23:28
jweyrichone-click-away threats.Aug 12 23:28
DaemonFCeventually they click YES one to many timesAug 12 23:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Rethinking Peer Review As The World Peer Reviews Claimed Proof That P≠NP 12 23:28
DaemonFCand then "uh oh"Aug 12 23:28
TechrightsBotTitle: Rethinking Peer Review As The World Peer Reviews Claimed Proof That P`NP | Techdirt .::. Size~: 23.31 KBAug 12 23:28
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 23:28
schestowitz[23:25] <jweyrich> right, win7 copied OSX. not news.Aug 12 23:29
schestowitzVista copied OS XAug 12 23:29
jweyrichwell, at least you can say "it's your fault, because the system asked you"Aug 12 23:29
DaemonFCheheAug 12 23:29
DaemonFCpreciselyAug 12 23:29
jweyrichoh my bad schestowitz heh.Aug 12 23:29
schestowitzVista 7 just added deskbar and some faceliftAug 12 23:29
jweyrichI don't have much against windows.Aug 12 23:29
DaemonFCI set Mandatory DEP (NX support)Aug 12 23:30
jweyrichI think these days it's a matter of taste only.Aug 12 23:30
DaemonFCfor legacy reasons, it's only mandatory by default on Win64 appsAug 12 23:30
DaemonFCunless you force 32-bit apps into itAug 12 23:30
DaemonFCwhich is another problem, seeing as how many internet apps are 32-bitAug 12 23:30
DaemonFCand may not opt-in themselvesAug 12 23:30
jweyrichcorrect, but 32bit dependencies (dlls) don't use ASLR or DEPAug 12 23:30
jweyrichthat's a very known attack vector yet.Aug 12 23:31
DaemonFCI'd rather have something crash on me and have to set an exception than to have a buffer overflow attack succeedAug 12 23:31
jweyrichusers don't know how to deal with crashes, they just blame the system "that crap doesn't work"Aug 12 23:32
DaemonFCrightAug 12 23:32
DaemonFCwhich is why it's not set like thatAug 12 23:32
DaemonFCit would require work to deal with that configuration sometimesAug 12 23:32
DaemonFCI really don't see too many things crash due to thatAug 12 23:32
DaemonFCbut I'm sure something out there still wouldn't like it very muchAug 12 23:33
*jweyrich is about to change his career. computers are too complicated.Aug 12 23:33
jweyrichlmao.Aug 12 23:33
DaemonFCit's interesting that in those PWN 2 OWN things, the "attacker" goes after the Mac firstAug 12 23:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Max Headroom - The Complete Series DVD Information Loved this show & in some ways it foreshadowed our tech/media world.Aug 12 23:33
TechrightsBotTitle: Max Headroom - The Complete Series DVD Information | .::. Size~: 20.36 KBAug 12 23:33
DaemonFCand it's eliminated like within the first hourAug 12 23:34
DaemonFCthen Windows and Linux last several daysAug 12 23:34
DaemonFCApple takes security even less seriously than Microsoft doesAug 12 23:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] $145 computer-on-module (COM) built around an ARM9 Atmel AT91SAM9G45 processor clocked at 400MHz 12 23:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Tiny ARM9 module ramps up to 400MHz - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 52.49 KBAug 12 23:34
DaemonFCI've seen them take 7 months to patch critical security vulnerabilities with full details made public Aug 12 23:35
DaemonFCit makes Patch Tuesday look lightning fast in comparisonAug 12 23:35
jweyrichMicrosoft does a good job at patching.Aug 12 23:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Attorney Gene Quinn [...] calls those who oppose software patents "ideological buffoons". #WatchTrollAug 12 23:35
TechrightsBotTitle: A weak case for software patents ( [] .::. Size~: 33.88 KBAug 12 23:35
DaemonFCso basically OS X is a powder keg that nobody bothers withAug 12 23:36
DaemonFCand its users are just running on luckAug 12 23:36
DaemonFCI'm sure the high price of even buying a Mac in the first place deters a lot of the third world criminals who might otherwise write a lot of the malwareAug 12 23:37
jweyrichwell, it's difficult to say. I don't run any daemons. I'd risk to say it's more viable to hack my mac thru an application I use every day, like Chromium.Aug 12 23:37
DaemonFCThere's still a lot of Windows XP users out thereAug 12 23:37
DaemonFCand the malware writers can deploy their own copy of XP on any hardware made since the late 1990sAug 12 23:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] IPKat troll on swpats: "I'm a patent attorney. I do a lot of work in software and consider it something of a speciality" 12 23:37
TechrightsBotTitle: The IPKat: Software Patents as Stalking Horses for the Patent System .::. Size~: 123.95 KBAug 12 23:37
jweyrichbut I certainly wouldn't use an xserve or any macs as servers full of daemons.Aug 12 23:38
DaemonFCWell, running a lot of software that you don't need is a gratuitous security riskAug 12 23:38
DaemonFCfor example, Logitech's webcam software or ATI's Catalyst Control CenterAug 12 23:38
DaemonFC(Nvidia has their own crapplet too)Aug 12 23:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] You have observed some of my tweets 2 times. Sorry if this annoyed you. I am now using twitterfeed to put tweet updates about my blog.Aug 12 23:38
DaemonFCthose have security vulnerabilities at timesAug 12 23:38
jweyrichI kill them all (used too at least0.Aug 12 23:38
DaemonFCand they love to park themsevles in the system tray with an administrator hatAug 12 23:39
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 23:39
DaemonFCso leaving software that you don't use running is a bad thingAug 12 23:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] No appeal of EPO decisions to the ECJ, even in the future system, EPO still operating in a vaccuum: 12 23:39
TechrightsBotTitle: Visae Patentes: Hearing of EU Court of Justice on EU Patent System did not Address Representation before Patents Court .::. Size~: 65.97 KBAug 12 23:39
DaemonFCnot only for guzzling resources, but it may open up a security problemAug 12 23:40
jweyrichI frequently see a windows with a huge tray. many colorful icons. then I ask the owner "what's all these?" and the answer, most of times is "I don't know".Aug 12 23:40
DaemonFCThe hiding of tray icons in Windows 7 bugged meAug 12 23:40
DaemonFCbut I set it to never do thatAug 12 23:40
DaemonFCit's as annoying as Ubuntu's indicator appletAug 12 23:40
DaemonFCbut there's no good way to make that go awayAug 12 23:40
jweyrichwhat's indicator applet?Aug 12 23:40
DaemonFCthat duplicate notification tray Ubuntu hasAug 12 23:41
DaemonFCwith that damned envelope thingAug 12 23:41
jweyrichahh rightAug 12 23:41
DaemonFCright, I believe that everything I'm running needs to have its own tray iconAug 12 23:41
*jweyrich doesn't even know which package manager ubuntu uses nowadays. lolAug 12 23:41
DaemonFCI mean, look at how much panel space there isAug 12 23:41
DaemonFCdo they need to save 2-3 icons worth?Aug 12 23:41
DaemonFCthen what's worse is that they stick entries like Evolution in thereAug 12 23:42
DaemonFCwhich requires as many clicks as it takes to get it out of the Applications menuAug 12 23:42
DaemonFCI just think the thing is badly designedAug 12 23:43
DaemonFCand there should be a way to turn it off and get normal tray icons backAug 12 23:43
DaemonFCbut there isn't since they patched the applications so they don't display their own iconsAug 12 23:43
DaemonFCAnd extending the GNOME 2  Panel is like adding on to a condemned buildingAug 12 23:44
DaemonFCGNOME 3 is going to be here soon-ishAug 12 23:44
DaemonFCand then GNOME Panel will be unmaintained bit rotAug 12 23:44
jweyrich -- will only ride on popular cars from now on heh.Aug 12 23:45
TechrightsBotTitle: Cars hacked through wireless tire sensors .::. Size~: 25.83 KBAug 12 23:45
DaemonFCthey say it will be around for a while, but around and properly supported are not the same thingAug 12 23:45
*jweyrich hates all Linux window managers. :(Aug 12 23:45
DaemonFCwell, GNOME Shell can be temperamental Aug 12 23:45
jweyrichgtk is SO, SO, SOOOOO tremendously ugly. KDE is totally unusable.Aug 12 23:46
DaemonFCit depends a lot on your video driversAug 12 23:46
DaemonFCit demands compositing, and it can't fall back to software compositing if your drivers blowAug 12 23:46
DaemonFCso they're not doing themselves any favors hereAug 12 23:46
schestowitz[23:35] <jweyrich> Microsoft does a good job at patching.     < you mean at hiding flaws?Aug 12 23:46
DaemonFCto promote mass adoptionAug 12 23:46
jweyrichschestowitz: no, really. when it comes to public flaws it does a good job.Aug 12 23:46
jweyrichs/it does/they do/Aug 12 23:47
DaemonFCI finally put my XP x64 system on Windows 7 Professional Aug 12 23:47
DaemonFCit had become too much of a maintenance nightmare Aug 12 23:47
DaemonFCXP x64 has accumulated hundreds of patches past its SP2 and there is no SP3 for it, only HUNDREDS of hotfixesAug 12 23:48
DaemonFCso I integrated those onto my own remastered install disc every once in a whileAug 12 23:48
*jweyrich sticks to his osx.Aug 12 23:48
DaemonFCbut now nothing that comes out of Microsoft even runs on XP x64 if they can help itAug 12 23:49
DaemonFCOffice 2010 won't, Windows Live Essentials won'tAug 12 23:49
DaemonFCMS Security Essentials won'tAug 12 23:49
DaemonFCI managed to trick Office 2010 and Windows Live Essentials with Windbg into thinking I had Windows XP 32-bit with SP3Aug 12 23:50
DaemonFCbut the 2010 build of Essentials requires Vista or 7Aug 12 23:50
DaemonFCeven normal XP won't workAug 12 23:50
DaemonFC:)Aug 12 23:50
DaemonFCthey're starting to dip their toes in the water when it comes to making normal XP hell on wheels (forced incompatibility)Aug 12 23:51
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Should I watch a few IT crowd shows?Aug 12 23:51
DaemonFCthey held off for a long time because they didn't want to provoke a mass exodus to LinuxAug 12 23:51
DaemonFCwhich is the only other thing you can expect to run on a lot of XP-era hardwareAug 12 23:52
jweyrich_Goblin: if you like TBBT, go on. I hate both.Aug 12 23:52
_GoblinTBBT?Aug 12 23:53
DaemonFClots of non-MS software that still supports XP is starting to complain or refuse to install if you're not on SP3Aug 12 23:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] or should I go to bed??? hmmmAug 12 23:53
jweyrichthe big bang theory.Aug 12 23:53
DaemonFCit's not really that SP3 is any more or less reliableAug 12 23:54
_GoblinahAug 12 23:54
DaemonFCit's that things will fail in different circumstances on SP2 than they will on SP3 sometimesAug 12 23:54
jweyrichCisco IOS Software TCP Denial of Service < oh my god! heh.Aug 12 23:54
DaemonFCso the author of that program really only wants to test one service pack level of XPAug 12 23:54
DaemonFCI don't blame themAug 12 23:55
DaemonFCI wouldn't want to keep XP around at all, much less two different copies of itAug 12 23:55
DaemonFCyou might trick it into running on SP2, the soft block is there because they don't want to hear your bug reports if you have that configurationAug 12 23:56
jweyrichDaemonFC: with whom you're talking to?Aug 12 23:56
DaemonFCand users would file them if the program jsut went ahead and workedAug 12 23:57
DaemonFCspeaking of patched bugsAug 12 23:57
DaemonFCschestowitz mentioned they hide themAug 12 23:57
DaemonFCthey don't, they patch one thing and cause a problem somewhere elseAug 12 23:58
schestowitzNo, they hideAug 12 23:58
DaemonFCthat's why Linux doesn't promise a stable ABI for driversAug 12 23:59
schestowitz 12 23:59
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft Finally Admits Numbers of Vulnerabilities It Reports Are Fake | Techrights .::. Size~: 114.57 KBAug 12 23:59
DaemonFConce things depend on bugs, you can't fix them easilyAug 12 23:59
schestowitz 12 23:59
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft Official Admits to Quiet Security Patching - PCWorld .::. Size~: 69.45 KBAug 12 23:59
schestowitz'“We don’t document every issue found,” Mike Reavey, director of the Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC), said at a meeting with reporters at the company’s corporate headquarters in Redmond, Washington.'Aug 12 23:59

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