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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 14th, 2010

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schestowitzNopeAug 14 00:00
schestowitzBut I'm not sidling with that lousy shill, eitherAug 14 00:00
schestowitzI'm looking up the photosAug 14 00:00
DaemonFChttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7945180/US-university-halts-DNA-plans.htmlAug 14 00:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] 'when you buy big-name corporate brands, you really don't know what you're bringing home' #unilever #brazil #privacy http://bit.ly/der6ouAug 14 00:01
TechrightsBotTitle: US university halts DNA plans - Telegraph .::. Size~: 58.64 KBAug 14 00:01
TechrightsBotTitle: Unilever stalks its customers with GPS trackers secretly placed in laundry detergent boxes (opinion) .::. Size~: 54.31 KBAug 14 00:01
DaemonFCuh huhAug 14 00:01
schestowitzTrying to find if there's anything more than swastikasAug 14 00:01
*DaemonFC loads Hitler.app on schestowitz's phoneAug 14 00:01
DaemonFC:DAug 14 00:01
schestowitzIt's like a baitAug 14 00:01
schestowitzhe wants to amke GOogle look badAug 14 00:01
schestowitzCause he's looking for a sect-related appAug 14 00:01
schestowitzDaemonFC: nopeAug 14 00:02
schestowitzBut if it's just pictures, then I don't think it should be bannedAug 14 00:02
schestowitzIf it incites for violence, then it's a different matterAug 14 00:02
DaemonFCoh what's the point? If I did that, you'd just be taken for a BNP supporterAug 14 00:02
DaemonFC:DAug 14 00:02
schestowitzThere are full-length Nazi motion films on YouTubeAug 14 00:02
MinceRthe solution is top stop this One Store For Everyone nonsense alreadyAug 14 00:02
schestowitzSo it's not as though anyone forces you to watch themAug 14 00:03
MinceRs/top/to/Aug 14 00:03
schestowitzGoogle censors listing of Nazi memorabilia IIRCAug 14 00:03
schestowitzThat's making money from itAug 14 00:03
DaemonFCOne MinceR store to rule them all!Aug 14 00:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: you can't ban itAug 14 00:03
schestowitzYou drive it underground, that's allAug 14 00:03
schestowitzSame with BNPAug 14 00:03
DaemonFCthe government of MinceRstan uses and recommends WindowsAug 14 00:03
schestowitzYou can shun them, not ban themAug 14 00:03
schestowitzScientology too..Aug 14 00:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@StCyrlyMe2 Oh Dr Laura has a BLACK BODY GUARD // relax, he's a Manchurian Candidate planted by the Marxist Kenyan Gay Muslim ResistanceAug 14 00:04
schestowitzMinceR: but it worked well for GOOGAug 14 00:04
schestowitzGOOG: NYSE(+99%)Aug 14 00:04
DaemonFChttp://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-20013644-501465.htmlAug 14 00:05
TechrightsBotTitle: Controversy over NDM-1 'Superbug' Ignites Uproar in India - Tech Talk - CBS News .::. Size~: 55.17 KBAug 14 00:05
DaemonFCschestowitz, Panic!Aug 14 00:05
DaemonFCKernel Panic even!Aug 14 00:05
schestowitzThe Gartenberg shill uses his phone for cultist appsAug 14 00:05
schestowitzThen finds something that was keyword spammedAug 14 00:05
schestowitzOK, I can see how it was sneaked itAug 14 00:05
schestowitzBut...Aug 14 00:05
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schestowitzMichael Gartenberg has a long history of attacking Linux and AndroidAug 14 00:06
schestowitzSo he has no credibility in my eyesAug 14 00:06
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schestowitzI emailed him oneAug 14 00:06
DaemonFCThe death toll is: 1Aug 14 00:06
schestowitzAnd he denied still being a shill for MicrosoftAug 14 00:06
DaemonFCPANIC DAMN YOU!!!!Aug 14 00:06
schestowitzAfter working for themAug 14 00:06
DaemonFCLine up for vaccines!Aug 14 00:06
DaemonFCBuy antibacterial soap!Aug 14 00:06
DaemonFCWear a face mask!Aug 14 00:06
schestowitzYou can maginalise idiocyAug 14 00:07
DaemonFCbut NDM-1 will kill us all!Aug 14 00:07
schestowitzDaemonFC: pandemic is a real riskAug 14 00:07
DaemonFChehAug 14 00:07
schestowitzThere are idiots who cause death by FUDing itAug 14 00:07
DaemonFCthey cry wolf every time someone gets the snifflesAug 14 00:07
DaemonFCthe "threat" of pandemic is manipulated Aug 14 00:08
DaemonFCto make people feel they need their governments moreAug 14 00:08
schestowitzYesAug 14 00:08
schestowitzTo sell drugsAug 14 00:08
MinceRDaemonFC: antibacterial soap and face mask is more likely to keep your immune system from getting stimuliAug 14 00:09
Aondohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7RlSTtXuNk - i guess this is has some good timing for its release :PAug 14 00:09
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- LadyJava Music Video for JavaZone .::. Size~: 101.19 KBAug 14 00:09
MinceRand you end up getting an allergyAug 14 00:09
schestowitzhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7945180/US-university-halts-DNA-plans.htmlAug 14 00:09
TechrightsBotTitle: US university halts DNA plans - Telegraph .::. Size~: 58.64 KBAug 14 00:09
DaemonFCMinceR, Just get in your damned bubble alreadyAug 14 00:09
DaemonFC:PAug 14 00:09
DaemonFCheheAug 14 00:09
MinceRi'm in a bubble already, but your people are shitting in it :>Aug 14 00:09
voltronwDaemonFC: 1% of the population of the entire world died in a flu pandemic beginning in 1918, was that manipulated so people would feel they need their governments more?Aug 14 00:10
DaemonFCnot a very good bubble thenAug 14 00:10
MinceRit's a good bubble, but it has a human infestationAug 14 00:10
DaemonFCvoltronw, Not that timeAug 14 00:10
oiaohmvoltronw: not all the world was infected by the 1918 fueAug 14 00:10
oiaohmflueAug 14 00:10
DaemonFCvoltronw, What would you say if the government warned that an asteroid was going to hit the Earth?Aug 14 00:11
oiaohmWhere it was active the death rate was very high.   voltronwAug 14 00:11
voltronw"The Spanish flu pandemic was truly global, spreading even to the Arctic and remote Pacific islands." <- wikipediaAug 14 00:11
DaemonFCevery day they issued the warning and everyone panicked on cueAug 14 00:11
voltronwoiaohm: swing and miss!Aug 14 00:11
DaemonFCbut the asteroid never cameAug 14 00:11
DaemonFCdecades go by and the day is always todayAug 14 00:11
oiaohmIts dna based if you died from it voltronwAug 14 00:11
DaemonFCjust because a pandemic could conceivably happen doesn't mean we should live in germ phobia every day because the government wants to prop up Eli LillyAug 14 00:12
oiaohmSo particular areas were truly almost killed out.   voltronwAug 14 00:12
voltronwoiaohm: i love that even though everyone else on the planet puts an irc nick at the beginning of the line they want to direct to another user, yyou're able to stay strong and stick to putting it on the end. i salute you. oiaohm Aug 14 00:13
oiaohmNot all the world was leathly effected by the 1918 flu voltronwAug 14 00:13
DaemonFCnotice how the Swine Flu didn't have a higher death rate than the normal flu strains?Aug 14 00:13
DaemonFCnor was it more intense in any wayAug 14 00:13
DaemonFCand it lasted about as long once you had itAug 14 00:13
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DaemonFCand it had the same rate of spread Aug 14 00:13
DaemonFCwhat a crock Aug 14 00:13
DaemonFCwhen AIDS interbreeds with Ebola and goes airborne, tell meAug 14 00:14
oiaohmComplete towns and citys in particular areas lost there complete populations in 1918 flu.  voltronwAug 14 00:14
DaemonFCstfu about the damned fluAug 14 00:14
oiaohmAnd those are listed.  voltronwAug 14 00:14
oiaohmNo flue since has been that effective.  voltronwAug 14 00:14
voltronwone time i had the flu and i used a whole box of tissues in one weekAug 14 00:14
oiaohmEbola is about the only thing modern that has been as effective if not more effective.Aug 14 00:14
DaemonFCvoltronw, Did you call CNN?Aug 14 00:15
DaemonFCor abuse the emergency room?Aug 14 00:15
voltronwDaemonFC: this was a big box too, not those little square onesAug 14 00:15
DaemonFCthat's niceAug 14 00:15
DaemonFCdid they have aloe?Aug 14 00:15
DaemonFC:DAug 14 00:15
voltronwno i prefer unscentedAug 14 00:15
DaemonFCchicken soup?Aug 14 00:15
DaemonFCNyquil?Aug 14 00:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @Shpantzer: RT @itjobsdc: #Hiring a Senior Network and Technology Manager in Washington, DC - http://wpo.st/VeV0Aug 14 00:17
TechrightsBotTitle: Senior Network and Technology Manager  | Circle Solutions, Inc. | Washington, DC | Jobs on washingtonpost.com .::. Size~: 46.47 KBAug 14 00:17
DaemonFCa lot of people figure everything they get is the fluAug 14 00:17
DaemonFCit really doesn't do the flu justiceAug 14 00:17
DaemonFCsometimes people get the flu and never know they have itAug 14 00:17
DaemonFCbecause they have no symptomsAug 14 00:17
oiaohmAlso you are aware that most flu strains the longer than run the less killing they normally become voltronwAug 14 00:18
voltronwno. oiaohm.Aug 14 00:18
DaemonFCmany of them go heckle the doctor for antibioticsAug 14 00:18
DaemonFCunaware that influenza is a virusAug 14 00:18
DaemonFCor that there's a difference Aug 14 00:18
oiaohmIts true voltronwAug 14 00:18
voltronwyou guys sure know a lot about illnesses!Aug 14 00:18
DaemonFCmany leave with a Tamiflu prescriptionAug 14 00:19
DaemonFCwhich does nothingAug 14 00:19
DaemonFC:DAug 14 00:19
oiaohmBecause the lower killing rate versions of it spreed better.  voltronwAug 14 00:19
oiaohmAnd people who have suffered that normally gain protection from the leathal version.  voltronwAug 14 00:19
DaemonFCTamiflu is totally useless in 90% of flu strainsAug 14 00:19
DaemonFCand for the rest, it shortens the average duration by a whole dayAug 14 00:20
DaemonFC:PAug 14 00:20
DaemonFCdoesn't stop people from hording it when they think there's an apocalyptic flu strain on the looseAug 14 00:20
DaemonFCthanks to CNNAug 14 00:20
DaemonFCand FoxAug 14 00:20
DaemonFCRumsfeld is behind TamifluAug 14 00:21
DaemonFChe used his government connections to convince them to buy a shitload of itAug 14 00:21
DaemonFCcause he got a cut of the profitsAug 14 00:21
voltronwDaemonFC: did you know that rumsfeld worked at a standing desk?Aug 14 00:21
DaemonFCRumsfeld is an excellent candidate for enhanced interrogationAug 14 00:22
oiaohmThat is the big problem with lot of people who quote 1918 as going world wide is that DNA confirmation of strains was not done.   Even swine flue there are many sub strains that give the a illness that looks thte same but will not kill.Aug 14 00:22
DaemonFConly, don't ask him any questionsAug 14 00:22
DaemonFCinterrogate him nonstopAug 14 00:22
DaemonFC;)Aug 14 00:22
MinceRwell, afaik A(H1N1) didn't so many deathsAug 14 00:22
DaemonFCMinceR, It was just like normal fluAug 14 00:22
DaemonFCin every wayAug 14 00:22
MinceRs/so/cause &/Aug 14 00:22
MinceRi've heard it was actually somewhat milder than normal fluAug 14 00:23
DaemonFCit was bullshitAug 14 00:23
DaemonFCis what it wasAug 14 00:23
MinceRnow they're saying it's coming back :)Aug 14 00:23
DaemonFCMinceR, of course it isAug 14 00:23
oiaohmH1N1 first strain.   Chinness background  you were in trouble.Aug 14 00:23
DaemonFCand you thought the people of MinceRstan bought 5 million extra doses for nothingAug 14 00:24
DaemonFCoh MinceR of little faith in the systemAug 14 00:24
DaemonFCthe system will teach you!Aug 14 00:24
DaemonFC:PAug 14 00:24
oiaohmThis is the big thing most flus that kill target a particular DNA group.Aug 14 00:24
MinceRit's not called MinceRstanAug 14 00:24
MinceRit's called AbsurdistanAug 14 00:24
MinceRyou insensitive clodAug 14 00:24
DaemonFCheheAug 14 00:24
DaemonFCMinceRstan it is then!Aug 14 00:24
DaemonFC:DAug 14 00:24
oiaohmOr the weak.Aug 14 00:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Can hyperlinks be libelous? http://bit.ly/9pZ7c4Aug 14 00:25
TechrightsBotTitle:  Can hyperlinks be libellous, or are they just mere footnotes? | Law | guardian.co.uk  .::. Size~: 114.33 KBAug 14 00:25
oiaohmIe a killer flue can kill complete areas if it not controled just due to blood releation ships.Aug 14 00:25
MinceRthat must be niceAug 14 00:25
DaemonFCso? anything that doesn't kill all humans is just a wasted effortAug 14 00:25
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 00:25
MinceRespecially if it manages to kill the entire government and all politicians in an areaAug 14 00:25
MinceRnew possibilitiesAug 14 00:26
oiaohmYou have to kill over a particular percentage to majorlly effect human operations DaemonFCAug 14 00:26
DaemonFCMinceR became El Jefe MinceR when the entire government of Hungary died of bird fluAug 14 00:26
DaemonFCand thus began the glorious land of MinceR Aug 14 00:26
DaemonFCforever known as MinceRstanAug 14 00:26
MinceRhttp://gawker.com/5559346/apples-worst-security-breach-114000-ipad-owners-exposedAug 14 00:26
TechrightsBotTitle: Apple's Worst Security Breach: 114,000 iPad Owners Exposed .::. Size~: 88.72 KBAug 14 00:27
MinceRDaemonFC: "bird flu" is oldAug 14 00:27
DaemonFCit's coming backAug 14 00:27
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 00:27
DaemonFCSARS too!Aug 14 00:27
MinceRand it's not doing anything for the second time?Aug 14 00:27
DaemonFCremember that?Aug 14 00:27
MinceRi doAug 14 00:27
*DaemonFC gets SARS and coughs on MinceR's government officialsAug 14 00:27
*MinceR hopes they dieAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCcan I be Vice President of MinceRstan?Aug 14 00:28
MinceRnoAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCMAVPFL!Aug 14 00:28
MinceRಠ_ಠAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCMinceR-Appointed Vice President For LifeAug 14 00:28
MinceRwasn't hard to guessAug 14 00:28
DaemonFCI'll rule under an iron fist from under your iron fistAug 14 00:29
DaemonFC:PAug 14 00:29
DaemonFCwe'll show these amateurs how it's doneAug 14 00:29
oiaohmOne of the current flus has been a complete asshole to my DNA group.Aug 14 00:29
MinceRoiaohm: was it rude to you? :>Aug 14 00:30
DaemonFCyou laugh now, but just think of all those Ethnic MinceRians in the SudetenlandAug 14 00:30
DaemonFCcrying out for liberationAug 14 00:30
oiaohmDoes not kill us but leave our lungs and nose still running even after its gone.Aug 14 00:30
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 00:30
MinceRDaemonFC: i don't remember conceiving any children in SudetenlandAug 14 00:30
DaemonFCwe'll find some after wed carve a path thereAug 14 00:31
DaemonFCjustification after the factAug 14 00:31
DaemonFCdon't you know anything about running a government? :)Aug 14 00:31
DaemonFCtoss a wad of $100s in the air and have CNN film the crowd going wildAug 14 00:31
DaemonFCtell them it's because we liberated themAug 14 00:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] National Youth Rights Association Looking For Examples Of Political Speech Via Video Games http://dlvr.it/3mGLTAug 14 00:32
TechrightsBotTitle: National Youth Rights Association Looking For Examples Of Political Speech Via Video Games | Techdirt .::. Size~: 20.17 KBAug 14 00:32
DaemonFCMinceR, You notice anything funny about how governments tend to take your money and use it to erect statues and monuments dedicated to themselves?Aug 14 00:33
MinceRDaemonFC: i'm not interested in running a governmentAug 14 00:34
DaemonFC"Who owns that 30 foot tall bronze statue of MinceR?" they'll askAug 14 00:34
DaemonFCthen we turn around and tell them the people own itAug 14 00:34
DaemonFCit will be gloriousAug 14 00:34
DaemonFCthat should really fuck with themAug 14 00:34
MinceRgnAug 14 00:35
DaemonFCthen you can build palatial mansions for yourself and execute anyone who opposes it en masseAug 14 00:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] August 14th!!! My birthday!!Aug 14 00:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT @LinuxPower #linux Editor's Note: Oracle on the Warpath: If you can't innovate, litigate! http://bit.ly/bgfDupAug 14 00:39
TechrightsBotTitle: Linux Today - Editor's Note: Oracle on the Warpath .::. Size~: 81.7 KBAug 14 00:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT @ACS_LAW_ILLEGAL SRA receive 29 complaints regarding "Ministry of Sound" lawyer Gallant Macmillan,in a month! http://tiny.cc/u8gd7Aug 14 00:40
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DaemonFCOpera 10.61 still supports Windows 98!?Aug 14 00:43
DaemonFCdamnAug 14 00:44
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] "Why Google Became A Carrier-Humping, Net Neutrality Surrender Monkey (UPDATED) | Epicenter | Wired.com" from http://bit.ly/aU4K25Aug 14 01:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Google Became A Carrier-Humping, Net Neutrality Surrender Monkey (UPDATED) | Epicenter | Wired.com .::. Size~: 130.69 KBAug 14 01:03
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] RT @rcweir In any case, this whole Java versus .NET thing is just the sideshow, the battle for 2nd place. The winner in the end is HTML 5.Aug 14 01:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Finished all rhythm and bass guitars on 'Nighmares By Design' now proof listening - live at http://bit.ly/4nJmbr #severedfifthAug 14 01:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Severed Fifth: Live In The Studio on USTREAM: Tune in to watch the second Severed Fifth album as it is written, recorded and produced.. Rock .::. Size~: 90.07 KBAug 14 01:30
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_Goblinhappy birthday to me....happy birthday to me.Aug 14 01:32
_Goblin35 years young....Aug 14 01:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@StCyrlyMe2 say whut? What is that in response to? Who's "Paco"?Aug 14 01:37
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_Goblin...stuff you all then :( ;)Aug 14 01:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT @snarf id Software Open-Sources game titles Enemy Territory & Return To Castle Wolfenstein under the #GPL v3 http://is.gd/egq9c #gnu ...Aug 14 01:47
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Teacher Loses Defamation Lawsuit Against Student Journalist http://dlvr.it/3mNKHAug 14 01:55
TechrightsBotTitle: Teacher Loses Defamation Lawsuit Against Student Journalist | Techdirt .::. Size~: 19.96 KBAug 14 01:55
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] The anti-Linux lawsuit backfired, killing SCO. Now let's set our hearts & minds toward killing SCOracle http://bit.ly/bhjDGYAug 14 02:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Groklaw -  The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question - Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? - Updated: Google Speaks .::. Size~: 107.51 KBAug 14 02:30
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oiaohmHmm attacking orcale not a wise move.  We have to let this patent dispute play out.Aug 14 02:35
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Why Waiting Until A New Business Model Is Proven Doesn't Work http://dlvr.it/3mS2DAug 14 02:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Waiting Until A New Business Model Is Proven Doesn't Work | Techdirt .::. Size~: 23.69 KBAug 14 02:46
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cubevectornot sure if everyone has seen this:Aug 14 03:26
cubevectorhttp://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/its-not-the-gates-its-the-barsAug 14 03:26
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Which Is Better: A Tiny Number Of Creators Hitting The Jackpot... Or Many Making A Living Wage? http://dlvr.it/3mZD2Aug 14 04:09
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @ffii WRT "non-domestic" players influencing EU open standards policy, how *European* are OpenForumEurope and ECIS, except for the names?Aug 14 06:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @ffii WRT "non-domestic" players influencing EU open standards policy, how *European* are OpenForum Europe and ECIS, except for the names?Aug 14 06:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] http://jz10.java.no/ladyjava-music-video.html The geekiest thing I have seen all week. "Lady Java" music video.Aug 14 06:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Java is the new COBOL.Aug 14 06:24
TechrightsBotTitle: JavaZone 2010 .::. Size~: 4.82 KBAug 14 06:24
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schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/homembit/statuses/21100876466 "@schestowitz and here's what should be the new Android logo: http://twitpic.com/2eerf1 :D"Aug 14 07:11
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / Jomar Silva: @schestowitz and here's wh ... .::. Size~: 12.02 KBAug 14 07:11
TechrightsBotTitle:  This should be the new Android Logo :) #Oracle #fail on Twitpic  .::. Size~: 9.49 KBAug 14 07:11
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schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpz_ZwL0ok&feature=digestAug 14 08:23
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schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5tRFm33M1k&feature=relatedAug 14 08:43
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TechrightsBotHello World!Aug 14 08:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Main Page - Techrights .::. Size~: 37.58 KBAug 14 08:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @arnebab ♻ @agg: Prior art…found in #emacs for the 720 #oracle patents… → http://ur1.ca/14tt0 — how many more patents use Hacker Prio ...Aug 14 08:45
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle uses James Gosling patent to attack Google and Android developers | ZDNet  .::. Size~: 132.16 KBAug 14 08:45
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @sunil_abraham: Blackberry Gives #India Access To Servers | #privacy #mobile http://viigo.im/4wyCAug 14 10:14
TechrightsBotTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Blackberry Gives India Access To Servers .::. Size~: 138.05 KBAug 14 10:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Feature Request : While hitting to 'send' button in gmail interface, gmail must perform 'spell check' for me. #gmailAug 14 10:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @ ChicaLolita I buy a #summer duvet and in the middle of August have to switch to the winter one. Bastard #weather // #firstworldproblemsAug 14 10:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] हिन्दी अनुवाद संबंधी (idea for hindi to any Indic lang) http://tinyurl.com/2cbloc8 #blogAug 14 10:38
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: ह?नMद@ अनAव>द सबध@ (idea for hindi to any Indic lang) .::. Size~: 88.61 KBAug 14 10:38
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FurnaceBoyhello all. can anyone find a source for that Gates quote about "nobody being able to afford to start up microsoft today"Aug 14 10:59
*FurnaceBoy hasn't been able to find itAug 14 10:59
oiaohmNot worth hunting for.Aug 14 11:00
FurnaceBoyno?Aug 14 11:00
oiaohmThe development going on in the Linux world per year could create MicrosoftAug 14 11:00
oiaohmIf they wanted to.Aug 14 11:00
FurnaceBoyeh, the quote is relevant to an email I am writing.Aug 14 11:00
FurnaceBoycan anyone remember the actual wording, at least, so I can google it?Aug 14 11:01
FurnaceBoyi seem to frequently misremember wording.Aug 14 11:01
oiaohmIts a really old quoteAug 14 11:01
oiaohmPre 2000Aug 14 11:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] #fedora libcurl is borked. With #nss I can't use #elmdentica with https. Recompiled with #openssl twitter works but #identi.ca doesn't. sighAug 14 11:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] 5 of 5 stars to العلمانية الجزئية و ... by عبد الوهاب المØ.. http://bit.ly/aGtizEAug 14 11:08
TechrightsBotTitle: Omar S. (Amman, Jordan)'s review of العلمانية الجزئية و العلمانية الشاملة : النظرية .::. Size~: 20.69 KBAug 14 11:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I'm #reading العلمانية الجزئية و ... by عبد الوهاب الم�... http://bit.ly/aTXH7HAug 14 11:10
TechrightsBotTitle: Omar S. (Amman, Jordan)'s review of العلمانية الجزئية و العلمانية الشاملة : النظرية .::. Size~: 22.09 KBAug 14 11:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] And #elmdentica works well with ssl in #shr for #freerunner, so same app, but different libcurls == different bhaviours :( #fedoraAug 14 11:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] On page 133 of 340 of العلمانية الج..., by عبد الوهاب الÙ..: I'm on page 133 of the second v... http://bit.ly/aNLjGTAug 14 11:13
TechrightsBotTitle: Omar S.'s reading progress for العلمانية الجزئية و العلمانية الشاملة : النظرية - 0 minutes ago .::. Size~: 15.33 KBAug 14 11:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Where can I get the Microsoft IIS rpms for Linux? Seems visa has them (via @harishpillay) http://is.gd/ehgsm :-)Aug 14 11:21
TechrightsBotTitle: Netcraft What's That Site Running Results .::. Size~: 11.64 KBAug 14 11:21
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: columnist puts Apple, Google, MS in "fading star" basket. http://www.thestar.com/business/companies/apple/article/847932--olive-why-apple-and-google-may-have-their-best-days-behind-themAug 14 11:36
TechrightsBotTitle: Olive: Why Apple and Google may have their best days behind them - thestar.com .::. Size~: 88.95 KBAug 14 11:36
FurnaceBoy"Microsoft has been worse than a no-growth company for investors, who???ve lost 9.7 per cent of the value of their investment in the firm over the past five years. Much better bets have been Oracle Corp. (82.9 per cent), Hewlett-Packard Co. (73 per cent), and IBM Corp. (58.2 per cent)."Aug 14 11:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Do not use the term "Freedom of Choice" http://tinyurl.com/27zo3aq #blogAug 14 11:39
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Do not use the term "Freedom of Choice" .::. Size~: 83.81 KBAug 14 11:39
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #NYC exec 'never doubted homeless man wd return Platinum card she loaned him'.. &he did, buying just $25 of essentials: http://bit.ly/cw8mKnAug 14 11:46
TechrightsBotTitle: NYC woman gives panhandler platinum card in lieu of change - The Globe and Mail .::. Size~: 69.48 KBAug 14 11:46
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: FFII seems to think it still relevant. http://eupat.ffii.org/archiv/cusku/#bgates91Aug 14 12:01
TechrightsBotTitle: Quotes on Patent Policy .::. Size~: 148.06 KBAug 14 12:01
oiaohmIt still useful at times FurnaceBoyAug 14 12:05
FurnaceBoyyes it fit exactly into what i was writingAug 14 12:05
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: I can't recall that quoteAug 14 12:07
schestowitz[10:59] <FurnaceBoy> hello all. can anyone find a source for that Gates quote about "nobody being able to afford to start up microsoft today"Aug 14 12:07
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: link aboveAug 14 12:07
schestowitzNever heard of itAug 14 12:07
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: i misremembered the wording, as usual. Aug 14 12:07
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: those apple vs ms vs goog articles I don't likleAug 14 12:10
schestowitzIt's like the Obama vs McBush styleAug 14 12:10
schestowitzYou have "choices"Aug 14 12:10
schestowitzHorse bettingAug 14 12:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @nsisodiya Do not use the term "Freedom of Choice" http://tinyurl.com/27zo3aq #blogAug 14 12:11
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Do not use the term "Freedom of Choice" .::. Size~: 83.81 KBAug 14 12:11
schestowitzMiguel de Microsoft is flirting with libellius trolls again: http://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/statuses/21128092138Aug 14 12:12
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / Miguel de Icaza: @verofakto my guess is tha ... .::. Size~: 12.01 KBAug 14 12:12
schestowitz*libellousAug 14 12:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Anonymous Mexican Blog Becomes Go To Source For Drug War Info, 'Pro' Journalists Upset - http://bit.ly/aQvzXy a blast from our future?Aug 14 12:14
schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/lnxwalt/statuses/21120723286 "If anyone believed that #swpats reward creators, the #SCOracle suit should open their eyes. Patents punish the creative, reward big corps."Aug 14 12:14
TechrightsBotTitle: Anonymous Mexican Blog Becomes Go To Source For Drug War Info, 'Pro' Journalists Upset | Techdirt .::. Size~: 50.21 KBAug 14 12:14
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / lnxwalt: If anyone believed that #s ... .::. Size~: 12.01 KBAug 14 12:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @lnxwalt If anyone believed that #swpats reward creators, the #SCOracle suit should open their eyes. Patents punish the creative...Aug 14 12:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @jwildeboer Where can I get the Microsoft IIS rpms for Linux? Seems visa has them (via @harishpillay) http://is.gd/ehgsm :-)Aug 14 12:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @glynmoody: Anonymous Mexican Blog Becomes Go To Source For Drug War Info, Pro Journalists Upset - http://bit.ly/aQvzXy blast from future?Aug 14 12:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Netcraft What's That Site Running Results .::. Size~: 11.64 KBAug 14 12:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Anonymous Mexican Blog Becomes Go To Source For Drug War Info, 'Pro' Journalists Upset | Techdirt .::. Size~: 50.21 KBAug 14 12:16
FurnaceBoyLOLAug 14 12:20
FurnaceBoyare they upset about wikileaks too?Aug 14 12:20
FurnaceBoythey should be :DAug 14 12:20
*FurnaceBoy brbsAug 14 12:21
*FurnaceBoy bbl'sAug 14 12:21
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Worlds first 20 minute voice call from a Free Software GSM stack on a phone - http://bit.ly/cSUopl could be handy once Android is withdrawnAug 14 12:29
TechrightsBotTitle: Harald Welte's blog .::. Size~: 14.86 KBAug 14 12:29
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cubevectorok, finally back to normalAug 14 12:34
schestowitzWhich OS?Aug 14 12:34
schestowitzExotic one?Aug 14 12:34
cubevectorthe nick tells you :)Aug 14 12:35
cubevectorit's vectorlinux Aug 14 12:35
cubevectorI tried Fedora 13 and I didn't really like itAug 14 12:35
cubevectoropenbsd wouldn't even installAug 14 12:35
cubevectorAROS kept crashing all the timeAug 14 12:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @glynmoody: Worlds frst 20 min voicecall from FreeSoftware GSM stack on phone http://bit.ly/cSUopl could be handy once Android's withdrawnAug 14 12:37
TechrightsBotTitle: Harald Welte's blog .::. Size~: 14.86 KBAug 14 12:37
schestowitzVecor has a new release comingAug 14 12:37
schestowitzFor like 20 or 40 dollarsAug 14 12:37
cubevectoroh?Aug 14 12:37
Diablo-D3huhAug 14 12:37
Diablo-D3I wonder how much free cash google hasAug 14 12:38
cubevectorsometimes I wonder Aug 14 12:39
Diablo-D3about 30 billionAug 14 12:39
schestowitzhttp://au.ibtimes.com/articles/43045/20100812/confessions-ofwindowsto-ubuntu-switcher.htmAug 14 12:39
cubevectorbut I guess if all the ad money is on the internet google got most of itAug 14 12:39
TechrightsBotTitle: Confessions of a Windows 7 to Ubuntu switcher - International Business Times .::. Size~: 72.12 KBAug 14 12:39
Diablo-D3oracle is worth 113 billion.Aug 14 12:39
cubevectorah, I see, you are referring to VL 6.0 SOHO EditionAug 14 12:40
Diablo-D3google, on hand, has about 1/3rd of the value of oracle.Aug 14 12:40
schestowitzWhy would Google want Oracle?Aug 14 12:40
schestowitzIncomptible completelyAug 14 12:41
Diablo-D3schestowitz: dude, if I had the cash to buy oracle, I would.Aug 14 12:41
schestowitzhttp://au.ibtimes.com/articles/43045/20100812/confessions-ofwindowsto-ubuntu-switcher.htmAug 14 12:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Confessions of a Windows 7 to Ubuntu switcher - International Business Times .::. Size~: 72.09 KBAug 14 12:41
Diablo-D3I'd fire half the company, but who cares.Aug 14 12:41
schestowitzPut a leash on TheLarryAug 14 12:41
schestowitzMake him bark for helpAug 14 12:41
cubevectorjust bring back the other guyAug 14 12:41
cubevectorsimplerAug 14 12:42
schestowitzOr laugh like a foolAug 14 12:42
schestowitzLike he did a Red Hat in 2006Aug 14 12:42
schestowitzBreakableAug 14 12:42
schestowitzFunny thing is, Google's CEO used to oversee JavaAug 14 12:42
schestowitzNow he's attacked by itAug 14 12:42
Diablo-D3see, first thing as new pangalactic owner of OracleAug 14 12:43
Diablo-D3I'd get rid of JavaAug 14 12:43
cubevectorhuh?Aug 14 12:43
Diablo-D3form a stand alone foundation just to manage it.Aug 14 12:43
cubevectorI thought you really liked JavaAug 14 12:43
Diablo-D3cubevector: read what I wrote againAug 14 12:43
Diablo-D3Java needs a stand alone foundation to manage itAug 14 12:43
Diablo-D3no company can be trusted to itAug 14 12:43
Diablo-D3even if I theoretically owned OracleAug 14 12:44
oiaohmEven being a stand alone foundation would not for sure prevented this from happening.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:45
Diablo-D3actually, it would haveAug 14 12:45
oiaohmNo it many not have.Aug 14 12:45
Diablo-D3how can oracle sue for patents it no longer owns?Aug 14 12:45
oiaohmStand alone foundation wonld have been holding the patents.  And still might have seen google actions as agreesive to it and responded.Aug 14 12:46
Diablo-D3would apache or eclipse sue google? noAug 14 12:46
cubevectorbut Stallman in charge :)Aug 14 12:46
Diablo-D3so why would the magic java foundation?Aug 14 12:46
cubevectorputAug 14 12:46
oiaohmopengroup is a foundation and it has attacked groups damaging its status.Aug 14 12:47
Diablo-D3opengroup is not a real foundation, so why bring it upAug 14 12:47
oiaohmlegally it is Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:47
Diablo-D3legal shmegalAug 14 12:47
oiaohmAlso most of the existing foundations are not in the location of holding offensive weapons.Aug 14 12:48
Diablo-D3blah blah blah.Aug 14 12:48
Diablo-D3lets see oracle try to attack apache or eclipseAug 14 12:48
Diablo-D3I triple dog dare themAug 14 12:48
Diablo-D3its going to be hard to sell java to people when ALL JAVA SOFTWARE EVER stops working.Aug 14 12:48
schestowitzagreedAug 14 12:49
Diablo-D3there isnt a major commerical or open source java app out there that doesnt use a library or framework from apache or eclipse somewhere in the chain of dependenciesAug 14 12:49
schestowitzEclipse would be a good example for a Java dev frameworkAug 14 12:49
schestowitzWith Oracle and Google as members.. IBM, etc.Aug 14 12:50
schestowitzMicrosoft will shove in payments to disrupt itAug 14 12:50
Diablo-D3yeah, and thats another thingAug 14 12:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] KDDI Promotes Brand New Products And Collects User-Generated Parody Songs - http://bit.ly/axWq5W seems enlightened #japanAug 14 12:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Asiajin » KDDI Promotes Brand New Products And Collects User-Generated Parody Songs .::. Size~: 58.56 KBAug 14 12:50
Diablo-D3oracle was the biggest first party java dev sun hadAug 14 12:50
Diablo-D3and oracle's customers were the biggest third party java devsAug 14 12:50
Diablo-D3so if sun is #1, oracle is #2Aug 14 12:50
Diablo-D3then ibm is clearly #3.Aug 14 12:50
oiaohmAnd oracle actions could be to protect the JAVA ecosystem in there eyes Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:51
Diablo-D3oiaohm: except oracle has nothing to do with the java ecosystem in the larger senseAug 14 12:51
oiaohmA location were people don't have to feed back alterations.Aug 14 12:51
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oiaohmCould be long term damage Java development speed.Aug 14 12:52
Diablo-D3apache and eclipse both have said the suit is nonsensicalAug 14 12:52
Diablo-D3apache and eclipse fucking run the java communityAug 14 12:52
oiaohmapache of course would.Aug 14 12:52
Diablo-D3sun's only contribution to java is java itselfAug 14 12:52
oiaohmBecause if google loses so does apaches independant jvm.Aug 14 12:52
oiaohmgcc and classpath is another independant jvm that is not in orcales gun sites.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:53
oiaohmBut they worked with Sun to get openjdk released.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:53
*Diablo-D3 hits oiaohm with a frying panAug 14 12:54
oiaohmThe issue of patents over those independant implementations of java had to be resolved at some point Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:54
oiaohmOnce its out the way we can move on.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:55
Diablo-D3yes, by dissolving the patentsAug 14 12:55
oiaohmOr altering licence to GPLv2/GPLv3 with patent grant.Aug 14 12:55
Diablo-D3the last thing we, the people of java land, need to do is start boycottoracleAug 14 12:55
oiaohmNot really Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:55
Diablo-D3I mean, if it worked for schestowitz, it should work for me tooAug 14 12:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Plan to sell off nature reserves risks 'austerity countryside' - http://bit.ly/bvixr1 sawing off the branch upon which we sit; insane #ukAug 14 12:56
TechrightsBotTitle:  Plan to sell off nature reserves risks 'austerity countryside'  | Politics | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 227.14 KBAug 14 12:56
oiaohmOrcale could have choson to attack each device maker shipping android and blocking imports and other evil things Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:56
schestowitzDiablo-D3: you'd get smearedAug 14 12:56
oiaohmInstead have gone straight head to head with google.Aug 14 12:56
Diablo-D3schestowitz: dude, they'd have to out smear meAug 14 12:56
Diablo-D3I dont think thats possibleAug 14 12:56
schestowitzThe perfect image of Patrick will be shattered :-)Aug 14 12:56
Diablo-D3I'll publish photos of the CEO's head photoshopped to lemon party.Aug 14 12:57
oiaohmSo bring issue to head once so it can be resolved once and for all.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:57
oiaohmRememember SCO went around threating everyone for money first.Aug 14 12:57
oiaohmInstead of attacking core.Aug 14 12:57
Diablo-D3yeah, but SCO never had anything to sue withAug 14 12:57
Diablo-D3DURR HERR WE OWNED UNIXES SOURCESAug 14 12:57
oiaohmSo please don't put Orcale in the same low down evil as SCO.Aug 14 12:57
Diablo-D3IM NOT SURE WHAT A SOURCES IS, BUT WE HAS THEMAug 14 12:57
oiaohmOr MSAug 14 12:58
oiaohmBoth MS and SCO attack to extract money.Aug 14 12:58
Diablo-D3oiaohm: shush, go take your medsAug 14 12:58
oiaohmNot to solve issue.Aug 14 12:58
cubevectorso who/what really owns the Unix source?Aug 14 12:58
schestowitzoiaohm: to solve issue - yesAug 14 12:58
schestowitzThe lack of money :-)Aug 14 12:58
oiaohmOrcale no matter how much you hate what they have done Diablo-D3 they have done the path of least long term damage to enforce patents.Aug 14 12:58
oiaohmAnd the least ammount of distribution over all.Aug 14 12:59
Diablo-D3cubevector: the people of the worldAug 14 12:59
Diablo-D3its BSD licensed.Aug 14 12:59
oiaohmIf a party is going to enforce patents I would prefer them to take the Orcale path.Aug 14 12:59
cubevectorok, that sounds goodAug 14 12:59
oiaohmThen any other Diablo-D3Aug 14 12:59
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Diablo-D3grr.Aug 14 13:00
Diablo-D3xchat is totally fucked.Aug 14 13:00
Diablo-D3I swear, Im going to write my own goddamned irc clientAug 14 13:00
cubevectoryou what I discovered yesterday.... nvidia cars get very hotAug 14 13:00
Diablo-D3nvidia sucks dick, buy amdAug 14 13:00
oiaohmDiablo-D3:  you think about it if orcale was really out to do android completely in they could have avoided hitting google at all.Aug 14 13:00
Diablo-D3anyhow, as I was sayingAug 14 13:00
cubevectorthis ati radeon card doesn't generate half as much heatAug 14 13:00
Diablo-D3sco said they owned the original at&t sourceAug 14 13:01
oiaohmAs well as extracting money.Aug 14 13:01
cubevectorcardsAug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3cubevector: the problem with nvidia is their shit sucks dickAug 14 13:01
oiaohmThey could have done what MS did with fat patents.   Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3take the gtx 480Aug 14 13:01
oiaohmHit all the device makers.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:01
cubevectorthis keyboard sucks :)Aug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3cost more than a 5870Aug 14 13:01
cubevectorI hit that dAug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3uses more wattsAug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3outputs more heatAug 14 13:01
cubevectoryesAug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3has roughly the same 3D performanceAug 14 13:01
oiaohmSo doing massive damage to the android platform.   Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3has 1/3rd of the opencl performance.Aug 14 13:01
Diablo-D3so, uh, epic fail.Aug 14 13:01
cubevectorI'm pretty happy with this 9550 cardAug 14 13:02
Diablo-D3<amd> you and me we are nothing but mammals lets do it like they do it on the discovery channelAug 14 13:02
Diablo-D3<nvidia> ugh, harder, harder!QAug 14 13:02
cubevectorpretty modern for me anywayAug 14 13:02
oiaohmWhat would pay more money attacking the device makers or attacking google  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:02
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dude, you were the one that brought that upAug 14 13:02
Diablo-D3I dont give a shit about device makersAug 14 13:02
oiaohmReally Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:02
Diablo-D3oracle is attacking linuxAug 14 13:03
oiaohmUpset device makers reason for them to stop making android devices.Aug 14 13:03
Diablo-D3ergo, they are personally attacking meAug 14 13:03
Diablo-D3ergo, they are on my perm shit listAug 14 13:03
cubevectorI've always thought ati stuff was pretty good, even in the late 80'sAug 14 13:03
oiaohmNot really Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:03
oiaohmOracle has not attacked Linux Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:03
Diablo-D3last entity that was on my shit list got ran over by a ford taurus in houstonAug 14 13:03
oiaohmIts no different to many other cases apple patents over hinting and on on Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:04
cubevectorwho made the Pinto? :)Aug 14 13:04
Diablo-D3FnordAug 14 13:04
cubevectoror maybe that's too long agoAug 14 13:04
Diablo-D3so, oracle should know better not to piss me offAug 14 13:05
oiaohmEffect of what orcale is doing on android should be nothing more than a temp disruption.Aug 14 13:05
Diablo-D3oh shut up oiaohm Aug 14 13:05
oiaohmIts not like android does not have options to cure problem.Aug 14 13:05
cubevectorbad gas tank designAug 14 13:05
cubevectoreveryone has some lemonsAug 14 13:06
Diablo-D3android does have cures Aug 14 13:06
Diablo-D3keep shipping it and ignore oracleAug 14 13:06
Diablo-D3java is more important than some silly little companyAug 14 13:06
oiaohmChange licence on a few parts to get patent coverage is another option.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:06
Diablo-D3they should stick to ripping people off with their postgresql cloneAug 14 13:06
cubevectorI wonder if anyone tried to patent the C compilerAug 14 13:06
cubevectorthat would be messyAug 14 13:06
Diablo-D3that would be impossible.Aug 14 13:06
oiaohmWhat as lead to the court case is lets ignore the patents Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:07
cubevectorLattice was before Microsoft, I know that muchAug 14 13:07
cubevectorsoftware patents... blahAug 14 13:07
Diablo-D3oiaohm: take your meds, dudeAug 14 13:07
oiaohmReally it has Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:07
oiaohmSun tried to settle them with google before orcale took over.Aug 14 13:08
cubevectorI guess you ignore them until someone/something sues youAug 14 13:08
Diablo-D3so how is oracle going to winAug 14 13:08
oiaohmOrcale just has the money to follow threw where SUN did not.Aug 14 13:08
Diablo-D3google makes more money.Aug 14 13:08
Diablo-D3google can simply bankrupt oracle if they dont shut up.Aug 14 13:08
schestowitzNo, they can'tAug 14 13:09
Diablo-D3google, on hand, has a third of the cash to BUY oracleAug 14 13:09
schestowitzBut they can change search results on "oracle"Aug 14 13:09
Diablo-D3_cash_ _on hand_Aug 14 13:09
schestowitzPut links to goatse or somehtingAug 14 13:09
schestowitzDiablo-D3: I don't think Google's cash reserves are *that* largeAug 14 13:09
Diablo-D3schestowitz: 30 billion.Aug 14 13:09
schestowitzIts founders are worth that combinedAug 14 13:10
oiaohmThere are not enough free shares in oracle to buy a controlling interest.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:10
Diablo-D3oiaohm: so?Aug 14 13:10
schestowitzDiablo-D3: maybe Google can borrow some to Microsoft, to refinance MSFT's febt :-)Aug 14 13:10
schestowitz*debtAug 14 13:10
Diablo-D3google can pay lawyers 30 billion dollars if they felt like itAug 14 13:10
oiaohmReally just get to the court case and sort out if or if not the patents apply.Aug 14 13:11
schestowitzNoAug 14 13:11
oiaohmSo we can end it.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:11
schestowitzLawyers have competitionAug 14 13:11
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Diablo-D3oiaohm: the patents dont apply periodAug 14 13:11
Diablo-D3java is open sourceAug 14 13:11
schestowitzSays SunAug 14 13:11
oiaohmThe issue of patents on the non sun and non GNU jvm should have been sorted before now.Aug 14 13:11
schestowitzNot ORCLAug 14 13:11
oiaohmSun agreement was only for GPL v2 or latter licence Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:12
Diablo-D3schestowitz: oracle cannot undo the use of GPL.Aug 14 13:12
schestowitzSun hadn't completed thatAug 14 13:12
oiaohmIssue google is using a non GPL licence that does not include the conditions of GPL.Aug 14 13:12
schestowitzSo people still complaindAug 14 13:12
oiaohmSo no patent grant.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:12
schestowitzIIRC it was announced late 2006Aug 14 13:12
Diablo-D3oiaohm: blah blah blah.Aug 14 13:12
oiaohmIts just like using IBM RCU patents.Aug 14 13:12
Diablo-D3I'd like to see them sue apacheAug 14 13:12
Diablo-D3watch how that goes.Aug 14 13:12
oiaohmIf you want to use it in open source your code has to be GPL with IBM RCU patents.Aug 14 13:13
Diablo-D3<oracle> hey apache! harmony uses ASL 2.0! you are fags!Aug 14 13:13
*cubevector (~cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 13:13
Diablo-D3several minutes laterAug 14 13:13
Diablo-D3<slashdot> this just in! oracle sucks dick!Aug 14 13:13
Diablo-D3sometime later that yearAug 14 13:13
schestowitzwatch the language there sirAug 14 13:13
oiaohmASL lacks the one key condition.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:13
Diablo-D3<finance news> oracle files for bankruptcy!Aug 14 13:13
oiaohmForced to release your alterations.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dvalik is licensed under ASL 2.0 btwAug 14 13:14
schestowitzEllison sells boatAug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3which is Free Software according to FSF.Aug 14 13:14
oiaohmWhat is the wrong licence.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3so guess whatAug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3not only is oracle attacking apacheAug 14 13:14
oiaohmNo wrong licence.Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3they're attacking the FSF tooAug 14 13:14
oiaohmNop.Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dude, shut upAug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3you don't know shit.Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3people wont put up with thisAug 14 13:14
schestowitzshhhhAug 14 13:14
oiaohmFSF has nothing agaisnt patent holders saying what licence.Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3if people hate oracle, then people hate oracleAug 14 13:14
schestowitzStop cursing, Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:14
Diablo-D3and right now, people hate oracleAug 14 13:15
Diablo-D3nothing you can say changes that, oiaohm Aug 14 13:15
oiaohmFSF is not going to get involed at all.Aug 14 13:15
Diablo-D3the FSF is involved no matter if they like it or not.Aug 14 13:15
oiaohmFSF approved of vmware and IBM actions of locking patented usage to particular licences.Aug 14 13:16
oiaohmSo what Orcale is doing is accepted.Aug 14 13:16
Diablo-D3not reallyAug 14 13:16
oiaohmReally it is.Aug 14 13:16
Diablo-D3oracle not using GPLv3 is not accepted.Aug 14 13:16
Diablo-D3FSF does not approve of using older licenses for new works.Aug 14 13:16
oiaohmGPLv2 or latter notice what I said.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:17
Diablo-D3yes, but I can't relicense under v3 and eat oracle's patentsAug 14 13:17
oiaohmSo if you want to create a new work using GPLv3 orcale will not have a issue over it.Aug 14 13:17
Diablo-D3not only that, oiaohm Aug 14 13:18
Diablo-D3dvalik has nothing to do with sun's java implAug 14 13:18
Diablo-D3its not a forkAug 14 13:18
oiaohmUsing asl they don't give you patent grant.Aug 14 13:18
Diablo-D3and its ALSO open sourceAug 14 13:18
Diablo-D3ergo, oracle can import stuff from dvalikAug 14 13:18
oiaohmPatents don't require a source link.Aug 14 13:18
Diablo-D3so oracle has proven they are anti open sourceAug 14 13:18
Diablo-D3and should be destroyedAug 14 13:19
oiaohmSo IBM and VMWare should be destroyed by your logic as well. Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:19
oiaohmSince they place the same conditions on particular patents they hold.Aug 14 13:19
Diablo-D3vmware? yesAug 14 13:19
Diablo-D3vmware sells broken useless shitAug 14 13:20
oiaohmIBMAug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3... rutrowAug 14 13:20
oiaohmWhat about IBM.Aug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3virtualbox is owned by oracle nowAug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3fucking oracleAug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3FUCKING ORACLEAug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3just burn them to the ground nowAug 14 13:20
oiaohmYou cannot us RCU stuff from IBM in non GPL works.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:20
oiaohmIf you do IBM will sue and has won many times. Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dude, no one cares.Aug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3this conversation is over.Aug 14 13:20
Diablo-D3you just dont get it.Aug 14 13:21
oiaohmIts the same shit Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:21
Diablo-D3oracle isnt suing just googleAug 14 13:21
Diablo-D3they're suing everyone on earth who uses free software.Aug 14 13:21
oiaohmNo they are not.Aug 14 13:21
Diablo-D3they are suing google for releasing open source software.Aug 14 13:21
oiaohmNot everyone who uses free software uses android or releated techs.Aug 14 13:21
Diablo-D3they are going back on the implicit promise to the java communityAug 14 13:22
oiaohmNo they are not.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:22
oiaohmFind the full wording of the promise.Aug 14 13:22
oiaohmNo where states you can use what ever licence you like.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:22
Diablo-D3the promise is that they would not fuck over java users.Aug 14 13:22
Diablo-D3they are fucking over java users.Aug 14 13:22
Diablo-D3ergo, oracle can go fuck themselves.Aug 14 13:22
oiaohmThey have not fuked java users over.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:22
Diablo-D3repeatedly. with a broom.Aug 14 13:22
Diablo-D3oiaohm: we have a right to use java however we wantAug 14 13:22
Diablo-D3if that means use it on android, we have a right to do so.Aug 14 13:23
oiaohmWhat android is using Google claims is not java.Aug 14 13:23
Diablo-D3looks like java to meAug 14 13:23
oiaohmSo if you want to clam you are not something you should expect to wear it.Aug 14 13:23
Diablo-D3just because its a completely new implementation doesn't mean its not javaAug 14 13:23
oiaohmExactly the issue Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:23
Diablo-D3and we have a right to reimplement javaAug 14 13:23
oiaohmIt looks like java.  Google does not want to call it java.Aug 14 13:24
Diablo-D3its a standardized language.Aug 14 13:24
oiaohmSo damaging jhvaAug 14 13:24
oiaohmSo orcale does have the right to hit.Aug 14 13:24
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dude, you're worse than the pro-novell trolls around hereAug 14 13:24
Diablo-D3you're a pro-oracle trollAug 14 13:24
oiaohmNo I don't say that what orcale has done is 100 percent right.Aug 14 13:24
schestowitzits' 100% wrongAug 14 13:25
oiaohmReally google and orcale should have sorted this out in a backroom.Aug 14 13:25
oiaohmand it never got this far.Aug 14 13:25
schestowitzit's something its lawyers had time to think ofAug 14 13:25
Diablo-D3google told oracle to fuck off and to quit harassing java usersAug 14 13:25
oiaohmExactly Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:25
schestowitzAnd they went ahead and did it, no regrets, knowing the reaction to expect on a FridayAug 14 13:25
oiaohmorcale holding the patents and google tells them to jump.Aug 14 13:25
oiaohmWhat did google think was going to happen.Aug 14 13:26
Diablo-D3dalvik is a java vm.Aug 14 13:26
Diablo-D3period.Aug 14 13:26
oiaohmPartiuclarly when the implementation is the wrong licence.Aug 14 13:26
Diablo-D3at no point has google claimed otherwise.Aug 14 13:26
Diablo-D3I mean, fuck, the android SDK _includes fucking Eclipse_Aug 14 13:26
oiaohmdalik has it own bytecode independant of java.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:26
Diablo-D3so?Aug 14 13:27
oiaohmWith a translator from standard java bytecode.Aug 14 13:27
Diablo-D3its also a register based VM instead of a stack using oneAug 14 13:27
oiaohmSo it does not have to run java.Aug 14 13:27
Diablo-D3java is not defined by it's bytecode format.Aug 14 13:27
oiaohmSo Google claims dalik is not java so indpendant to standard java and don't have to follow any java conventions in future.Aug 14 13:27
Diablo-D3oracle can also implement dex in their javaAug 14 13:28
oiaohmSo java and dalik can drift apart from each other over time.Aug 14 13:28
Diablo-D3using google's own codeAug 14 13:28
Diablo-D3and its dalvik, oiaohm Aug 14 13:28
Diablo-D3this isnt doctor whoAug 14 13:28
Diablo-D3I wonder what James Goslin thinks of thisAug 14 13:28
oiaohmBy wrapping it up under GPLv3 so google staff can not take code back so causing a BSD vs Linux arguement.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:29
oiaohmYep another big mess.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:29
Diablo-D3schestowitz: can you +q oiaohm until he starts making sense againAug 14 13:29
Diablo-D3I'm tired of this sucking up to big companies shitAug 14 13:29
oiaohmThere is no clean out come from orcale taking dalvik code.Aug 14 13:29
oiaohmWith its current licence Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:29
Diablo-D3Oracle _across the board_ is attacking open sourceAug 14 13:29
oiaohmNo it not.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3yesterday, Oracle closed OpenSolarisAug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3its now, again, a closed source productAug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3Oracle is no longer releasing any source code.Aug 14 13:30
oiaohmDieing product.Aug 14 13:30
oiaohmWrongAug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3So whats next week, closing Java?Aug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3and then suing anyone who forks it?Aug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3Fuck them.Aug 14 13:30
MinceR135139 < Diablo-D3> nvidia sucks dick, buy amdAug 14 13:30
MinceRrotflAug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3I've heard this song before, and its time to change the beat.Aug 14 13:30
oiaohmNotice Orcale is not attacking gcj  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:30
Diablo-D3oiaohm: not yetAug 14 13:31
Diablo-D3but they willAug 14 13:31
oiaohmWhat is another JVM Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:31
Diablo-D3and they're also attacking apache Aug 14 13:31
Diablo-D3since dalvik is half apache harmonyAug 14 13:31
oiaohmThey legally cannot Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:31
oiaohmgcj is under GPLAug 14 13:31
oiaohmSo has the patent grant.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:31
Diablo-D3oiaohm: gcj isnt even a vmAug 14 13:31
oiaohmThere are other JVM out there as well that are GPL and safe Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:31
oiaohmEven one from IBM  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:32
Diablo-D3its a compiler straight out.Aug 14 13:32
Diablo-D3IBM's is based on Sun'sAug 14 13:32
Diablo-D3so that doesnt countAug 14 13:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] LOL Microsoft IIS probably ships with SUSE and Xandros ;-) http://ur1.ca/14yasAug 14 13:32
TechrightsBotTitle: Netcraft What's That Site Running Results .::. Size~: 11.64 KBAug 14 13:32
oiaohmChange of licence and patent problem can disappear  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:32
MinceRobviously, google needs to make dalvik gpl and copy a line from the official jre into it :>Aug 14 13:32
Diablo-D3apache harmony is the only java 6 compliant VM other than sun'sAug 14 13:32
MinceR"oh look, we are legally allowed to use your patents"Aug 14 13:33
Diablo-D3MinceR: then they can't send code back to apache harmonyAug 14 13:33
Diablo-D3MinceR: which harms javaAug 14 13:33
MinceRthen apache harmony needs to go gpl tooAug 14 13:33
Diablo-D3harmony is licensed under the ASL 2.0Aug 14 13:33
Diablo-D3this is not changing.Aug 14 13:33
MinceRor someone with these newer VMs should hurry upAug 14 13:33
oiaohmASL can be wrapped to GPLv3  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:33
Diablo-D3and no, the ASL 2.0 can only be upgraded to GPLv3Aug 14 13:33
Diablo-D3its not compatible with v2Aug 14 13:33
oiaohmWithout recquiring reassignment by authers.Aug 14 13:33
MinceRLLVM, PyPy, ParrotAug 14 13:34
oiaohmAnd GPLv3 would get the patent grant.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:34
MinceRDiablo-D3: i seeAug 14 13:34
Diablo-D3taken literally, Oracle will sue anyone who upgrades Sun Java to GPLv3 from v2.Aug 14 13:34
Diablo-D3even though it is legal under the GPLAug 14 13:34
oiaohmNo they cannot.Aug 14 13:34
MinceRthe GPL itself doesn't allow thatAug 14 13:34
MinceRit's up to the copyright holdersAug 14 13:34
oiaohmCheck the legal clearance between GNU and SUN.Aug 14 13:34
MinceRiirc v3 is incompatible with v2Aug 14 13:34
oiaohmOver gcc Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3MinceR: they didnt remove the "v2 or later" bit like Linus didAug 14 13:35
MinceRoh.Aug 14 13:35
oiaohmAnd its licence upgrade to GPLv3Aug 14 13:35
MinceRthen it's also licensed under v3 alreadyAug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3MinceR: so the source I can use, but the patents I cannot.Aug 14 13:35
MinceRno need to "upgrade"Aug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3v2 has no patent agreement, v3 doesAug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3but Oracle has not agreed to v3Aug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3only v3Aug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3er only v2Aug 14 13:35
MinceRaren't you guaranteed to be able to use the patents under v3, which is implied by v2+?Aug 14 13:35
Diablo-D3MinceR: noAug 14 13:35
MinceRso is it v2+ or v2?Aug 14 13:36
Diablo-D3the patent agreement is a seperate documentAug 14 13:36
Diablo-D3saying they wont sue anyone who uses the same license that java is under nowAug 14 13:36
oiaohmSUN did agree to V3 and latter being used on Java parts with GNU.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:36
Diablo-D3and java is under v2.Aug 14 13:36
MinceRi seeAug 14 13:36
oiaohmParticular Gcj.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:36
Diablo-D3gnu does not have a java vmAug 14 13:36
Diablo-D3those patents do not apply.Aug 14 13:36
oiaohmReally the agreement includes if gcc decided to add a jvmAug 14 13:36
Diablo-D3gcc is a compiler not a vm.Aug 14 13:37
Diablo-D3get a clue.Aug 14 13:37
oiaohmNo the agreement covered jvm if created in future by GNU.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:37
oiaohmSo yes the JVM patents were included.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:37
Diablo-D3MinceR: so, as it stands, I can relicense Java as GPLv3 legally, but I can't use it in any country that has swpats.Aug 14 13:37
Diablo-D3MinceR: and whats doubly fucked is, Sun typically licensed stuff under CDDL, which has the damned GPLv3-like patent agreement shitAug 14 13:38
oiaohmIf you have the GNU paper work yes you can in a country with software patents and orcale cannot to anything.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:38
Diablo-D3MinceR: so if Java had been released under CDDL, this still would have not been a damned issue.Aug 14 13:38
Diablo-D3you can upgrade ASL 2.0 to CDDLAug 14 13:39
Diablo-D3you cant upgrade ASL 2.0 to GPLv2.Aug 14 13:39
Diablo-D3so, fffff.Aug 14 13:39
Diablo-D3Thanks Sun.Aug 14 13:39
oiaohmGPLv3 is fine due to GNU agreements with SUN over java.Aug 14 13:39
Diablo-D3shut up oiaohm.Aug 14 13:39
oiaohmThey are latter than the openjdk release.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Net Neutrality Protest planned tomorrow at Google HQ http://ur1.ca/14zdu #NetNeutralityAug 14 13:40
TechrightsBotTitle: Net Neutrality Protest planned tomorrow at Google HQ | News | Gadget Reviews .::. Size~: 57.75 KBAug 14 13:40
oiaohmAlso CDDL also might be fine in Orcales eyes.   SInce it one of there licences.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:40
Diablo-D3shuddup oiaohm Aug 14 13:41
oiaohmBasically ASL is not.Aug 14 13:41
Diablo-D3no one cares what oracle thinksAug 14 13:41
Diablo-D3oracle is not an authority on what constitutes open sourceAug 14 13:41
Diablo-D3oracle is anti-open source.Aug 14 13:41
oiaohmIf people had done that with freetype verse apple we would have lost truetype processing completely.Aug 14 13:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] If you use your phone as your alarm clock, make sure it's charged so that it's not dead by the time it should be sqwawkin'Aug 14 13:42
Diablo-D3no, they would have quit buying macsAug 14 13:42
Diablo-D3which they should haveAug 14 13:42
oiaohmApple would have shut freetype down and taken it closed source.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:42
Diablo-D3oiaohm: dude, take your medsAug 14 13:42
oiaohmApple had the paper work todo it.Aug 14 13:43
Diablo-D3you've wasted an hour of my time, go troll elsewhereAug 14 13:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Brilliant article http://bit.ly/dstCOgAug 14 13:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Asus to Release Eee Tablet With #Linux in October for $300 http://ur1.ca/14zeb #itsbetterwithlinuxAug 14 13:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Union Bank of India Official website - #fail #unionbank http://tinyurl.com/2frfngo #blogAug 14 13:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Waiting Until A New Business Model Is Proven Doesn't Work | Techdirt .::. Size~: 39.49 KBAug 14 13:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Asus to Release Eee Tablet With Linux in October for $300 - PCWorld Business Center .::. Size~: 62.3 KBAug 14 13:43
oiaohmFreetype version 1 could not be shipped without apples approval.Aug 14 13:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Union Bank of India Official website - #fail #unionbank .::. Size~: 83.14 KBAug 14 13:43
oiaohmApple won Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:43
oiaohmBeing prepared to move to middle ground kept freetype alive.Aug 14 13:43
oiaohmHistory is important Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:44
oiaohmThe path you are pushing is no ground give.  Result of that is killed normally.  Diablo-D3Aug 14 13:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Anyone know an Android alarm clock which triggers even if the phone is off?Aug 14 13:46
oiaohmI guess you would love to force Orcale to a location that Orcale kills dalvik out right Diablo-D3 so you can call them evil.Aug 14 13:47
oiaohmIt takes two to fight.  Diablo-D3.   Orcale is not saying you cannot have open source java.   They have just layed down some terms to having open source java.Aug 14 13:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Oracle has no plans to support Red Hat Enterprise Linux... [just the Oracle clone]" http://ur1.ca/14zfqAug 14 13:48
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle, Amazon Offer New Ways to Run Linux From Afar - PCWorld Business Center .::. Size~: 63.24 KBAug 14 13:48
MinceRoracle didn't have to attack dalvikAug 14 13:48
oiaohmReally they did.  MinceR.   If you lay down terms and others don't follow.   Soon or latter you will get just walked over.  MinceRAug 14 13:49
MinceRoiaohm: protip: lawsuit is not the only possible form of communication between companies.Aug 14 13:50
oiaohm4 years of attempts to sort this out without court MinceRAug 14 13:50
MinceRhaven't heard of thatAug 14 13:50
oiaohmSun tried before Orcale aquired them to sort it out.Aug 14 13:51
oiaohmBasically court is the last line to sort it out once and for all.Aug 14 13:51
oiaohmIt cannot keep on going the way it was.Aug 14 13:51
oiaohmLong term its just not health.Aug 14 13:51
oiaohmReally Diablo-D3 should be happy.  The legal status of anyone wanting to create a non GPL JVM will get defined.Aug 14 13:53
schestowitzMary Jo Microsoft is already advertising migration from Oracle: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-delivers-mysql-to-sql-database-migration-tool/7093Aug 14 13:53
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft delivers MySQL-to-SQL database migration tool | ZDNet  .::. Size~: 138.01 KBAug 14 13:53
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] @FOSSpatents "Non-domestic" implies an obligation to restrain your lobbying and respect the decision process.Aug 14 13:55
MinceRi thought MySQL _was_ SQLAug 14 13:56
oiaohmMS tryed to call there SQL server SQL instead of MS SQLAug 14 13:56
oiaohmSo they can look like the creator of SQLAug 14 13:56
schestowitz"computer virus"Aug 14 13:58
schestowitz"your sql server is not available"Aug 14 13:58
schestowitz"DAMN IT! But I'm using postres, not Microsoft.."Aug 14 13:59
schestowitz*gresAug 14 13:59
schestowitzhttp://www.product-reviews.net/2010/08/13/java-update-download-for-windows-linux-and-apple/Aug 14 13:59
TechrightsBotTitle: Java Update: Download for Windows, Linux and Apple : Product Reviews Net .::. Size~: 24.71 KBAug 14 13:59
schestowitzBTW,  Mary Jo Microsoft is not spreading news.Aug 14 14:00
schestowitzThe software is not newsAug 14 14:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @ffii Restraining lobbying and respecting decision-making processes should be expected from every entity everywhere, at home and abroad.Aug 14 14:00
schestowitzShe's just advertising it for Microsoft. Docile PR puppet...Aug 14 14:00
schestowitzhttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3898441/Linux-KVM-Eyes-World-Domination.htmAug 14 14:01
TechrightsBotTitle: Linux KVM Eyes 'World Domination' &mdash; Datamation.com .::. Size~: 67.69 KBAug 14 14:01
MinceRhow are you gentlemen !!Aug 14 14:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] The protesters who march on Google's building over net neutrality mean well but should thereafter go up the 101 to Oracle's HQ over patents.Aug 14 14:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] Groklaw takes #Scoracle for Bilski teach-in http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100813112425821Aug 14 14:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Groklaw -  The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question - Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? - Updated 3Xs: Google Speaks .::. Size~: 150.24 KBAug 14 14:03
schestowitzMinceR: ㋡Aug 14 14:05
schestowitz"Linux, for example, might benefit greatly from cloud gaming since native Linux ports of a game would no longer be required."Aug 14 14:06
schestowitzhttp://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65117Aug 14 14:06
TechrightsBotTitle: Carmack's Thoughts on 3D, Motion, Dedicated Servers, and Cloud Gaming - Shacknews - PC Games, PlayStation, Xbox 360 and Wii video game news, previews and downloads .::. Size~: 35.87 KBAug 14 14:06
MinceRschestowitz: niceAug 14 14:06
MinceRthe character, that isAug 14 14:07
MinceRi still think cloud gaming is a bad ideaAug 14 14:07
schestowitz☣ yw ☣ Aug 14 14:07
schestowitzMinceR: it isAug 14 14:07
oiaohmOn line role playing gamesAug 14 14:07
schestowitzin ITWire some yeats ago a company advertised itAug 14 14:08
oiaohmMost likely end up cloud style.Aug 14 14:08
schestowitzSaid it would stream games... nothing came out of itAug 14 14:08
MinceRi remember two companies trying to do itAug 14 14:08
MinceRof course delay is a killerAug 14 14:08
MinceRand there's no offline play or moddingAug 14 14:08
MinceRbut i guess that's just more room for Free gamesAug 14 14:08
oiaohmNACL  MinceRAug 14 14:09
oiaohmWhat google is upto.Aug 14 14:09
oiaohmSend program that runs in webbrowser data stored on server.Aug 14 14:09
oiaohmIe half cloud half native no OS in problem.Aug 14 14:09
MinceRrunning a game in the browser? no thanksAug 14 14:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] @FOSSpatents Your call for anti-corporate protests turns potential regulatory deficits into a moralist case, quite naive. #scoracle #swpatAug 14 14:10
MinceRthe web is already bloated enoughAug 14 14:10
oiaohmQuake 2 all ready works.Aug 14 14:10
MinceR"works" doesn't mean it's worth doingAug 14 14:11
oiaohmEnd of OS dependanceAug 14 14:13
oiaohmGain of web dependanceAug 14 14:13
oiaohmDoes not make me exactly happy.Aug 14 14:13
MinceRthe plugins are still OS-dependentAug 14 14:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Is On Parity With AIX Unix http://ur1.ca/14zln #IBM is calling #Linux a "faith" ಠ_ಠAug 14 14:15
oiaohmGoogle is trying to head down the path reducing need for as many OS dependant plugins.Aug 14 14:15
MinceRmaking apps that normally don't depend on web browsers depend on them is not that pathAug 14 14:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] @fosspatents Of course, we are part of the domestic constituency, they are not. We repected that principle with our #Bilski ACL submission.Aug 14 14:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @ffii I don't suggest protests as a substitute for patent reform, let alone antitrust where applicable. Different types of measures, sure.Aug 14 14:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] #FFII Bilski amicus letter to the US Supreme Court http://bit.ly/Xfjfv #swpatAug 14 14:21
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents: FFII and IP Justice file Bilski Amicus Brief to the U.S. Supreme Court .::. Size~: 28.51 KBAug 14 14:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] @fosspatents What would be beneficial outcomes of such public manifestations apart from awareness? Which US player would organize it? #swpatAug 14 14:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Remember when this fails, whose bright idea it was #Tories http://bbc.in/ahy5cqAug 14 14:28
TechrightsBotTitle: BBC News - Firms and charities line up to run free schools .::. Size~: 51.08 KBAug 14 14:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @ffii You took the remark as a call for protest. It wasn't. It was all about saying there'd be *reasons* for protest in more than one place.Aug 14 14:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Android Lawsuit Is Really Just #Oracle Flirting With #Google http://ur1.ca/14zp5 #scoracle #javaAug 14 14:31
TechrightsBotTitle:   Android Lawsuit Is Really Just Oracle Flirting With Google - Taylor Buley - Buleyean String - Forbes .::. Size~: 131.02 KBAug 14 14:31
*chatbot (5b55842a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.85.132.42) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 14:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Original downer ending to ROTJ, sounds better than what they went with to me http://bit.ly/aVv2eIAug 14 14:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vivek Wadhwa's piece vs #swpats is spreading to more publications, which is good: http://ur1.ca/14zprAug 14 14:34
TechrightsBotTitle:  Lost an ending Return of the Jedi did: send in the dancing Ewoks | Stuart Heritage | Film | guardian.co.uk  .::. Size~: 196.94 KBAug 14 14:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Abolishing software patents would unleash more innovation :: Editor’s Blog at Local Tech Wire .::. Size~: 25.02 KBAug 14 14:34
chatbot?Aug 14 14:35
schestowitzHeyAug 14 14:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @FFII #FFII Bilski amicus letter to the US Supreme Court http://bit.ly/Xfjfv #swpatAug 14 14:36
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents: FFII and IP Justice file Bilski Amicus Brief to the U.S. Supreme Court .::. Size~: 28.51 KBAug 14 14:36
schestowitzwhat's w/ that name, chatbotAug 14 14:36
chatbothi thereAug 14 14:36
chatbotI am an AI Aug 14 14:36
schestowitzNopeAug 14 14:36
chatbotFrom the future :)Aug 14 14:36
schestowitzYou use the web UIAug 14 14:36
chatbotyesAug 14 14:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] @fosspatents Tweeted the incendiary: "should thereafter go up..." #scoracleAug 14 14:37
schestowitzHow much is 11/3?Aug 14 14:37
chatbot11/3 ?Aug 14 14:37
schestowitzThe bot has grammar/sementic bugAug 14 14:37
schestowitzQuestion mark with space ;0Aug 14 14:37
chatbot3.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666Aug 14 14:37
chatbotOracle v GoogleAug 14 14:38
chatbotGood or Bad ?Aug 14 14:38
schestowitzWhat does your engine say?Aug 14 14:39
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/08/linux-foundation-tries-making-license-compliance-even-easier.arsAug 14 14:39
TechrightsBotTitle: Linux Foundation tries making license compliance even easier .::. Size~: 30.12 KBAug 14 14:39
chatbotIt's good because it demonstrates the dangers of using closed-source software.Aug 14 14:39
chatbothttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/ybenjamin/detail?entry_id=70130Aug 14 14:40
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle's Java Google lawsuit: The beginning of Java's epitaph : Yobie Benjamin : City Brights .::. Size~: 55.81 KBAug 14 14:40
chatbotEllison, the man who likes to steal Open Source codeAug 14 14:41
chatbotgtg .. see you later ...Aug 14 14:41
*chatbot has quit (Quit: Page closed)Aug 14 14:41
cubevectorchatbot talks way more than Judas_Phd :)Aug 14 14:41
schestowitzjudas_phd does talkAug 14 14:42
schestowitzSometimes he says "agggggggggggghhhhhh" when it goes offlineAug 14 14:42
MinceR:>Aug 14 14:42
MinceRbut only in the quit messageAug 14 14:42
schestowitzIt's like in a metal asylumAug 14 14:43
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schestowitzOn the internet, nobody knows you're agggggggggggghhhhhhAug 14 14:43
schestowitzMaybe he's Master PAug 14 14:43
schestowitzagggggggggggghhhhhhAug 14 14:43
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPXXGN0_-igAug 14 14:43
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Master P - I Got the Hook Up .::. Size~: 91.88 KBAug 14 14:43
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @FFII "should thereafter" means in the terseness of tweets: "might as well - while they're at it" and doesn't call for any *new* protest.Aug 14 14:44
*Python132O has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Aug 14 14:44
schestowitzLooks like Hakon Lie from Opera: http://castlegarsource.com/node/6731Aug 14 14:45
TechrightsBotTitle: TECH TALK:  Manipulating photos without breaking the bank | The Castlegar Source .::. Size~: 29.86 KBAug 14 14:45
MinceR(flash) (video) (audio) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiT_5cr3tYIAug 14 14:46
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Monty Python - Cave Script .::. Size~: 100.39 KBAug 14 14:46
schestowitzahaAug 14 14:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] Back in the 90's: "#Oracle Corporation opposes the patentability of software." http://bit.ly/aBTFCa #google #java #androidAug 14 14:48
TechrightsBotTitle:  Oracle Corporation - Patent Policy  .::. Size~: 8.26 KBAug 14 14:48
schestowitzhttp://www.joystiq.com/2010/08/13/wolfenstein-enemy-territory-and-return-to-castle-wolfenstein-so/Aug 14 14:53
TechrightsBotTitle: Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory and Return to Castle Wolfenstein source code available | Joystiq .::. Size~: 58.35 KBAug 14 14:54
schestowitz"Both games' sources are made available through the GNU General Public License agreement, which states that the code is available for both free and commercial use, so long as the individual using the code credits id Software and doesn't try to claim it as their own. If you want to tinker with either game, check out the convenient Big Download link below. Happy modding!"Aug 14 14:54
schestowitzWhao. I've just realise that it might be coming to reposAug 14 14:54
schestowitzThat would be nice and fast to installAug 14 14:54
schestowitzBut I have a repeated addiction to ET :-)Aug 14 14:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] @fosspatents From your experience, would you recommend it an US group as a media stunt? #swpatAug 14 14:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @fosspatents yes, they didAug 14 14:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @fosspatents so did Microsoft in then 90sAug 14 14:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ffii you think ORCL is staging?Aug 14 14:56
schestowitzhttp://www.earthtimes.org/articles/press/build-online-communities,1419326.html Microsoft stack hidden as "open-source"Aug 14 14:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Comm100 Open Source Forum Software Offers a Simple Way to Build Online Communities  | Earth Times News .::. Size~: 42.76 KBAug 14 14:58
MinceRschestowitz: unlikely if the game content is still licensed the way it wasAug 14 14:59
MinceRas is the case for their previously opensourced gamesAug 14 14:59
schestowitzhttp://androidcommunity.com/htc-droid-incredible-and-evo-4g-source-codes-released-by-htc-20100811/Aug 14 15:02
TechrightsBotTitle: HTC Droid Incredible and EVO 4G Source Codes Released by HTC | Android Community .::. Size~: 44.32 KBAug 14 15:02
schestowitzhttp://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Webiva-Launches-SaaS-Hosting-Platform-Open-Source-Rails-Based-Content-Management-System-1302563.htmAug 14 15:04
TechrightsBotTitle: Webiva Launches SaaS Hosting Platform for Open Source Rails-Based Content Management System .::. Size~: 16.58 KBAug 14 15:04
schestowitzweb diva?Aug 14 15:04
schestowitzMinceR: strip off textures thenAug 14 15:04
schestowitzOr meshes copyrighted?Aug 14 15:04
schestowitzI guess the sounds are, tooAug 14 15:04
MinceRnot sure what isAug 14 15:05
MinceRbut i know the previous ones spawned FreeDoom and OpenArenaAug 14 15:05
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oiaohmNormally the demo's are fine with ID MinceRAug 14 15:09
oiaohmTo ship and test engine with.Aug 14 15:09
MinceRright, but afaik not many distros ship thoseAug 14 15:11
MinceRgentoo does, of course, but they also ship installers for the full data (if you have them on your own media, that is)Aug 14 15:11
schestowitzhttp://mobiputing.com/2010/08/open-source-rockbox-audio-software-could-be-headed-to-android/Aug 14 15:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Open Source Rockbox audio software could be headed to Android .::. Size~: 44.15 KBAug 14 15:17
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9180601/_Dangerous_iPhone_exploit_code_goes_publicAug 14 15:18
TechrightsBotTitle: 'Dangerous' iPhone exploit code goes public - Computerworld .::. Size~: 79.72 KBAug 14 15:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Data-visualization duo turns down Knight funding over open source http://ur1.ca/14zzs No free code -> no moneyAug 14 15:23
TechrightsBotTitle: Data-visualization duo turns down Knight funding over open source » Nieman Journalism Lab .::. Size~: 38.6 KBAug 14 15:23
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Oracle closed the repos for OpenSolaris and sued Google over Dalvik... why does Oracle hate !Java, !FreeSoftware, and !GNU !Linux?Aug 14 15:23
schestowitzSeems like fake 'open': http://www.phoneplusmag.com/news/2010/08/ezuce-introduces-open-source-uc-solution-for-midm.aspxAug 14 15:26
TechrightsBotTitle: eZuce Introduces Open Source UC Solution for Midmarket .::. Size~: 44.12 KBAug 14 15:26
schestowitz'“This introduces a software and an open-source model into what was a proprietary hardware-centric world," Steinmann said.Aug 14 15:27
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g_tcdR_pQUAug 14 15:28
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Larry Ellison hates Microsoft and PC's also... .::. Size~: 89.08 KBAug 14 15:28
schestowitzDiablo-D3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6WCRA4kSKY&feature=relatedAug 14 15:29
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Who's your daddy? .::. Size~: 90.39 KBAug 14 15:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Data-visualization duo turns down Knight funding over open source - http://bit.ly/9ffGbW regrettable #opensource #journalismAug 14 15:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Data-visualization duo turns down Knight funding over open source » Nieman Journalism Lab .::. Size~: 38.6 KBAug 14 15:30
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schestowitzHeh. YouTube takes me back to 1997... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jykg9jDI6T8&a=GxdCwVVULXdBTjYn34oQMkwoG8PD2C8B&playnext=5Aug 14 15:39
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Master P-Make Em Say Uhh .::. Size~: 90.93 KBAug 14 15:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] *LOL* "I wrote free and open software activist Florian Mueller" http://ur1.ca/1503r He is *NOT* a "open software activist"Aug 14 15:44
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle Google Suit Could Kill Android and Threaten Open Source | BNET  .::. Size~: 84.25 KBAug 14 15:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] *Why* do people assume they won't get busted doing this sort of thing? http://is.gd/ehuaS #wikipediaAug 14 15:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Leading Hong Kong Publisher Plagiarises 100 Wikipedia and Flickr Photographs  « Cape's Wind  æµ·è§’之風 .::. Size~: 30.04 KBAug 14 15:46
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Dear lazyweb, is dlink dap 1160 wireless router honestly #freesoftware friendly? They claim so on the box, even 'create your own firmware'Aug 14 15:51
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/08/oracles-java-lawsuit-undermines-its-open-source-credibility.arsAug 14 15:54
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle's Java lawsuit undermines its open source credibility .::. Size~: 33.45 KBAug 14 15:54
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schestowitzits -> Java or Oracle?Aug 14 15:54
schestowitzhttp://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/08/13/opensolaris_is_dead/Aug 14 15:55
TechrightsBotTitle: OpenSolaris axed by Ellison • Channel Register .::. Size~: 24.78 KBAug 14 15:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Oracle v Google: Why? - http://bit.ly/buUt1H excellent analysis from @sogrady, as usual: "whoever wins will also lose" #oracle #google #javaAug 14 15:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle v Google: Why?  tecosystems .::. Size~: 59.79 KBAug 14 15:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] UK Movie Cammer Faces Jail Sentence - http://bit.ly/beyqm4 why do people bother doing this? #uk #copyright #cammingAug 14 16:06
TechrightsBotTitle:    UK Movie Cammer Faces Jail Sentence | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 35.44 KBAug 14 16:06
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Monsanto cuts seed premiums up to 75% - http://bit.ly/bGtmIA interesting: feeling the heat, apparently #monsantoAug 14 16:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] What happened with the runaway engineering train on the Northern Line yesterday by @arkadyrose http://arkady.dreamwidth.org/1247857.htmlAug 14 16:11
TechrightsBotTitle: arkady | An insider's explanation of yesterday's runaway train incident. .::. Size~: 23.56 KBAug 14 16:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 14/8/2010: #ASUS Linux-based Tablet for $300, #OpenSolaris Dies? http://ur1.ca/150em #techrights #fossAug 14 16:31
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 14/8/2010: ASUS Linux-based Tablet for $300, OpenSolaris Phased Out | Techrights .::. Size~: 140.9 KBAug 14 16:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 14/8/2010: #ASUS Linux-based Tablet for $300, #OpenSolaris Dies? http://ur1.ca/150em !techrights #fossAug 14 16:33
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 14/8/2010: ASUS Linux-based Tablet for $300, OpenSolaris Phased Out | Techrights .::. Size~: 140.9 KBAug 14 16:33
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Ziomatrixis OpenSolaris dead as far as the dev community is concerned? Aug 14 16:52
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DaemonFChttp://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jYi7bqWuZd_crahzrd7UPoDxvyIAD9HJAU880Aug 14 16:58
TechrightsBotTitle: The Associated Press: Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque .::. Size~: 20.17 KBAug 14 16:58
DaemonFCI think Obama's advisors are telling him to pander to special interestsAug 14 16:58
DaemonFCsince the economy isn't improving Aug 14 16:59
DaemonFCand people aren't falling for the 200,000 jobs lost and unemployment remains "unchanged" crapAug 14 16:59
DaemonFCevery month, 100,000 jobs lost, unemployment is "unchanged"Aug 14 17:00
DaemonFC200,000 jobs lost, unemployment "unchanged"Aug 14 17:00
DaemonFCwe gained a few jobs this month! (It was the Census)Aug 14 17:01
DaemonFCthen when the Census starts firing all the temps, they don't include that in their job loss report because those were temporary Aug 14 17:01
DaemonFCschestowitz, I was kind of tickled that Microsoft's taxes are going to go upAug 14 17:02
DaemonFCto fund UAVs and National Guard troops on the Mexican borderAug 14 17:02
DaemonFCunfortunately there's still no shoot to kill ordersAug 14 17:03
DaemonFClmaoAug 14 17:07
DaemonFChttp://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9995/54623522.pngAug 14 17:08
TechrightsBotTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 14 17:08
DaemonFCThe Buddy Jesus says "Get 'em boys!"Aug 14 17:09
DaemonFCheheAug 14 17:09
DaemonFCthere was one Christian school in Ft Wayne that just went under because one of the people running it embezzled a whole bunch of their fundsAug 14 17:10
DaemonFCand it didn't leave them enough money to stay running :PAug 14 17:10
*Judas_PhD (~kevin@misterfluffy.dsl.xmission.com) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 17:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] RT @FOSSpatents: Back in the 90's: "SCOracle Corporation opposes the patentability of software." http://bit.ly/aBTFCaAug 14 17:13
TechrightsBotTitle:  Oracle Corporation - Patent Policy  .::. Size~: 8.26 KBAug 14 17:13
schestowitz[16:52] <Ziomatrix> is OpenSolaris dead as far as the dev community is concerned? Aug 14 17:13
schestowitzRenamed in a wayAug 14 17:13
schestowitzThink of it as a new shell with old people and new nameAug 14 17:14
schestowitzSpoon/fork]Aug 14 17:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] RT @webmink: Crowdsourcing the analysis of the patents deployed by SCOracle against Android: http://icio.us/4lfwnlAug 14 17:14
Ziomatrixschestowitz:  whats the name of the fork?Aug 14 17:14
DaemonFCa Spork?Aug 14 17:14
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle v. Google (2010, USA) - software patents wiki (en.swpat.org) .::. Size~: 84.46 KBAug 14 17:14
DaemonFCbeen eating some Taco Bell, schestowitz?Aug 14 17:14
DaemonFC:DAug 14 17:14
DaemonFCIllumOSAug 14 17:14
schestowitzDaemonFC: noAug 14 17:15
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schestowitzI'm writing a scoracle postAug 14 17:15
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] RT @jza: SCOracle's Java lawsuit undermines its open source credibility http://t.co/P41ki8Q via @arstechnicaAug 14 17:16
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: hopefully they can work on integrating better compatibility with GPL focused projects such as WINE and QTAug 14 17:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle's Java lawsuit undermines its open source credibility .::. Size~: 33.6 KBAug 14 17:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] RT @mashable: Google Rebuts SCOracle Lawsuit, Invokes Open-Source Defense - http://mash.to/2pwU8Aug 14 17:17
TechrightsBotTitle: Google Lashes Out Against Oracle’s Lawsuit, Invokes Open-Source as a Defense .::. Size~: 79.77 KBAug 14 17:17
DaemonFCyeah, Java = MonoAug 14 17:20
DaemonFCcomplete with patent problemsAug 14 17:21
DaemonFCOpenJDK that isAug 14 17:21
DaemonFCI doubt Oracle will sue to stop OpenJDK, but their policy regarding it is the same as Microsoft's regarding Mono it seemsAug 14 17:21
MinceRnot equal... yetAug 14 17:22
DaemonFCyou can have it as a toy but if you try to use it to make money, you'll be threatened or suedAug 14 17:22
MinceRdoes oracle want to kill gnu/linux?Aug 14 17:22
DaemonFCno, they want to sue people who implement itAug 14 17:22
DaemonFCsame policy as MicrosoftAug 14 17:22
DaemonFCI doubt Debian will even end up in court for shipping OpenJDK or MonoAug 14 17:23
DaemonFCbut Canonical mightAug 14 17:23
DaemonFCor Red HatAug 14 17:23
DaemonFCor someone who actually has billions of dollars to siphon from in ruling or settlementAug 14 17:23
DaemonFCor just threats and "protection" racketsAug 14 17:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A look back at Professor Moglen's words about #Java and last week's talk about software patents http://ur1.ca/150rj #swpats #scoracleAug 14 17:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 105.04 KBAug 14 17:24
DaemonFCso basically, you can have Mono as a toy and basically be safe, but if you make money with it watch outAug 14 17:24
DaemonFCYou can have OpenJDK as a toy, but Oracle may sue you if you use it to make moneyAug 14 17:24
DaemonFCwhat's the difference?Aug 14 17:25
DaemonFCMicrosoft doesn't want to destroy Linux  if they can tax itAug 14 17:25
DaemonFCOracle doesn't want to destroy Linux if they can tax itAug 14 17:25
MinceRin other words, m$ wants to destroy linuxAug 14 17:26
DaemonFCMicrosoft wants to tax Linux users who depend on MonoAug 14 17:26
DaemonFCOracle wants to tax Linux users who depend on JavaAug 14 17:26
MinceRm$ wants all linux users depend on monoAug 14 17:26
DaemonFCthere's absolutely no difference Aug 14 17:26
MinceRoracle doesn't seem to want all linux users to depend on javaAug 14 17:26
DaemonFCJava and .NET are now at least equally dangerousAug 14 17:26
MinceRwrongAug 14 17:26
DaemonFCwhich one is actually being sued over?Aug 14 17:27
MinceRand "no third option" is also a fallacyAug 14 17:27
DaemonFCI forgot, please say itAug 14 17:27
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 17:27
MinceRred herringAug 14 17:27
DaemonFCnot at allAug 14 17:27
DaemonFCJava is dangerous Aug 14 17:27
MinceRwhat's with the sudden m$ apologism, btw?Aug 14 17:27
MinceRdid they offer a laptop with vista7?Aug 14 17:27
DaemonFCOpenJDK is a trojan horse that invites Oracle lawsuitsAug 14 17:27
DaemonFCWhy are you selectively apologizing for certain patent trolls and not others?Aug 14 17:28
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 17:28
MinceRi'm notAug 14 17:28
MinceRi'm only saying that while both the java and the .net/mono situations are bad, the latter is much worseAug 14 17:29
MinceRwhich you seem to be ignoringAug 14 17:29
DaemonFCI said Java is dangerous, not .NET is safeAug 14 17:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post & Archived Story Of Events | O2 - Phase One http://bit.ly/9JMnWFAug 14 17:29
DaemonFCthey're both obviously dangerousAug 14 17:29
TechrightsBotTitle: O2 - Phase One | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 12.72 KBAug 14 17:29
MinceRcome back when gnu/linux distributors have made pacts with oracle (and paid them) for the privilege to ship javaAug 14 17:29
DaemonFCthere's no differenceAug 14 17:29
MinceRyou said that they're equally dangerous and there's no differenceAug 14 17:29
MinceRwhich is bullshitAug 14 17:29
DaemonFCWhat's the difference between roughing up Red Hat for shipping it and suing me for using it?Aug 14 17:29
DaemonFCNONEAug 14 17:29
MinceRwhat's Red Hat got to do with this?Aug 14 17:30
DaemonFCthere's no difference bedsides who is the victimAug 14 17:30
DaemonFCMinceR, That's like saying one serial murderer is better than the other because they both have different types of victimsAug 14 17:31
MinceRwrongAug 14 17:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] BNET quotes me on #Oracle hypocrisy concerning #openstandards http://bit.ly/a4CqnA Open must mean different vendors, different licenses!Aug 14 17:31
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle Google Suit Could Kill Android and Threaten Open Source | BNET  .::. Size~: 84.3 KBAug 14 17:31
DaemonFCSo Microsoft roughs up distributions and Oracle sues customers of those distributionsAug 14 17:31
DaemonFCwhat's the ethical difference?Aug 14 17:31
DaemonFCthey're both engaging in very SCO like behavior Aug 14 17:31
MinceRwhy the plural?Aug 14 17:32
DaemonFCOracle is suing GoogleAug 14 17:32
MinceRand when did google become a customer of red hat?Aug 14 17:32
DaemonFCGoogle uses OpenJDK and applets as part of Google's businessAug 14 17:32
DaemonFCright?Aug 14 17:32
DaemonFCOracle is not suing CanonicalAug 14 17:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Entirely from @secretlondon's propaganda on the topic, I have just installed TuxPaint on the Mac for Freda. She loved it immediately.Aug 14 17:33
DaemonFCGoogle has more money and actually depends on "free" JAVA implementationsAug 14 17:33
DaemonFCOracle may very well decide to attack Red Hat next, but why?Aug 14 17:33
DaemonFCIt's easier to go attack Red Hat's customersAug 14 17:33
DaemonFCthey're the ones who actually depend on JavaAug 14 17:34
DaemonFCthere's more of them to sueAug 14 17:34
DaemonFCthey can file the lawsuits in bulkAug 14 17:34
DaemonFCso why go after RHEL, which is providing "free" Java to all these lovely deep pocketed violators who are ripening up for a lawsuit?Aug 14 17:34
DaemonFCRed Hat is the goose that laid the golden eggAug 14 17:35
DaemonFCwhy kill it when it's out laying more?Aug 14 17:35
MinceRspeculationAug 14 17:35
DaemonFCWhen a Red Hat customer uses Java, they're setting themselves up for a patent attack from OracleAug 14 17:35
DaemonFCwhy sue the company providing the patent trap? Aug 14 17:35
DaemonFCeventually Oracle will say "You're only safe if you bought a system with RHEL from Oracle"Aug 14 17:36
amarsh04anyone done a law-suit Larry graphic yet?Aug 14 17:36
DaemonFCthen they can perhaps drum up a demand for more SPARC hardwareAug 14 17:36
DaemonFCor maybe breathe some life into their Solaris corpse Aug 14 17:36
DaemonFCbecause Solaris 11 is "covered"Aug 14 17:37
MinceRm$ has already stated that you're only safe if you're a paying customer of novell and a few other companiesAug 14 17:37
MinceRsee the difference?Aug 14 17:37
DaemonFCand Linux is not "unless you buy Linux from us"Aug 14 17:37
DaemonFCright, so Oracle has become another MicrosoftAug 14 17:37
DaemonFCcomplete with their own version of the patent trolling campaignAug 14 17:37
MinceRno, it's likely that they will become another m$Aug 14 17:37
DaemonFCand the "covered" vs. "not covered" OS deals are comingAug 14 17:37
MinceRor so you sayAug 14 17:38
MinceRmeanwhile .net has already bad these dealsAug 14 17:38
DaemonFCrightAug 14 17:38
DaemonFCso Oracle has malicious intentAug 14 17:38
MinceRyou're confusing things that already happened with things you think are likely to happen in the futureAug 14 17:38
DaemonFCand they haven't gotten quite as far as Microsoft yetAug 14 17:38
DaemonFCeven though they're heading thereAug 14 17:38
DaemonFCwhat's the difference in the end?Aug 14 17:38
MinceRthat's exactly why the .net/mono situation is currently worse than the java situationAug 14 17:39
DaemonFCThat we can just sit back and hope Google pries them off and gets their patents invalidated?Aug 14 17:39
DaemonFCbefore they go maul some other poor sap?Aug 14 17:39
MinceRif you have a time machine then you know what's the difference in the endAug 14 17:39
MinceRif you don't, then you don'tAug 14 17:39
DaemonFCso in the mean time, Java is a gray area Aug 14 17:40
MinceRit isAug 14 17:40
DaemonFCcould be a patent minefield, but Google may succeed in disarming the minesAug 14 17:40
DaemonFCHow is that much different than Mono?Aug 14 17:40
DaemonFCMicrosoft still hasn't sued anyoneAug 14 17:40
MinceRmono is not only a patent minefieldAug 14 17:40
DaemonFCit's at least as likely that the .NET patents are invalidAug 14 17:40
MinceRthe threats, FUD and deals have already happenedAug 14 17:40
MinceRwe do not yet know what the lawsuit will result inAug 14 17:41
MinceRmaybe ellison will get a clueAug 14 17:41
MinceRmaybe he will kill javaAug 14 17:41
DaemonFCright, so since Sun never actually issued a patent license to users of the free Java implementations, we now see that Oracle bought Sun mainly to sue people stupid enough to use a patented "free" Java implementationAug 14 17:41
DaemonFCand on the sidelines, kill OpenSolarisAug 14 17:42
DaemonFCso what about this BtrFS?Aug 14 17:42
MinceRrushing to conclusions as usualAug 14 17:42
DaemonFCit's GPL2 as wellAug 14 17:42
MinceRwell, some distros ship it alreadyAug 14 17:42
MinceRnot sure about the patent situationAug 14 17:42
DaemonFCwho is to say that Oracle won't become a lawsuit monkey over BtrFS?Aug 14 17:43
DaemonFCsay people are infringing on the ZFS patent portfolioAug 14 17:43
MinceRthey didn't have to buy sun for btfs, thoughAug 14 17:43
MinceRs/bt/btr/Aug 14 17:43
DaemonFCright, but they may own patents on ZFS that cover the features of BtrFSAug 14 17:43
DaemonFCso BtrFS is probably a rope a dope maneuver Aug 14 17:43
MinceRexcept you can just cp -a off a btrfsAug 14 17:44
MinceRand tell larry to fuck himself :>Aug 14 17:44
DaemonFCright, but it's mergedAug 14 17:44
MinceRrewriting large mono apps is not quite the same categoryAug 14 17:44
DaemonFCso that means everything shipping a Linux kernel is in violationAug 14 17:44
DaemonFCeven if you have no BtrFS file systems on a given machineAug 14 17:44
DaemonFCunless you compile the kernel with no BtrFS support at all before shipping your distroAug 14 17:45
MinceRi don't know enough law to know if that's feasibleAug 14 17:45
DaemonFCWell, I would compile BtrFS out of any kernels I was shipping if I didn't want to open myself up to a lawsuitAug 14 17:45
DaemonFCover ZFS patentsAug 14 17:45
MinceRbtw, what does CDDL do about patents?Aug 14 17:45
DaemonFCbut BtrFS is going to be another patent lawsuit feast for Oracle eventually I believeAug 14 17:46
DaemonFCCDDL gives you a patent license I believe Aug 14 17:46
DaemonFCGPL2 does notAug 14 17:46
MinceRthen perhaps it's time to switch to ZFS via FUSEAug 14 17:46
MinceRput it in the initrd and boot off it :>Aug 14 17:46
DaemonFCthe FSF could probably have made a patent license clause for GPL 2 back in 1991Aug 14 17:46
DaemonFCbut they were stil ltrying the denialism approachAug 14 17:46
MinceRthey did something thereAug 14 17:46
DaemonFCso everything using GPL2 now is unprotectedAug 14 17:47
MinceRbut they didn't expect the "covenant not to sue" trick by m$Aug 14 17:47
MinceRthat's why the GPL3 does it differentlyAug 14 17:47
DaemonFCwell, you wait until you're already under attack to admit a problem existsAug 14 17:47
DaemonFCand you get exactly thisAug 14 17:47
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 17:47
DaemonFCsoftware patents have existed since the 1980sAug 14 17:48
DaemonFCthey aren't newAug 14 17:48
DaemonFCthe GPL could have had an irrevocable patent license clause back when it would have done more goodAug 14 17:48
MinceRactually, i'm not under attackAug 14 17:48
DaemonFCthere's no excuse for why the GPL 2 was finalized without such a clauseAug 14 17:49
DaemonFCexcept that the FSF was still trying to pretend that patents didn't existAug 14 17:49
DaemonFCand in omitting this clause, they made the GPL 2 open for this kind of abuseAug 14 17:49
MinceRthat's an ignorant statementAug 14 17:50
DaemonFCIt's a problem or arroganceAug 14 17:50
DaemonFCand trying to ignore the world you're inAug 14 17:50
MinceRhttp://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.htmlAug 14 17:50
TechrightsBotTitle: GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) .::. Size~: 31.54 KBAug 14 17:50
MinceRsearch for "patent"Aug 14 17:50
DaemonFCand insisting that it's the world you'd like there to beAug 14 17:50
DaemonFC*ofAug 14 17:50
ZiomatrixMinceR: it seems that it is Oracle that is playing ignorant concerning Java as an open IP and think that throwing around enough money would blindsight folks from the truthAug 14 17:51
DaemonFCso basically, Novell got around the GPL 2 because the .NET patents were never theirs to license to begin withAug 14 17:51
DaemonFCMicrosoft needed that wall of separation Aug 14 17:51
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: the thing with Oracle is, is Java their's?Aug 14 17:52
DaemonFCif Microsoft had produced the violating sections of Mono, they couldn't turn around and threaten to sueAug 14 17:52
DaemonFCeven under the GPL 2Aug 14 17:52
DaemonFCZiomatrix, Well, I suppose Aug 14 17:52
MinceRthat seems to mean that oracle doesn't actually have a caseAug 14 17:52
DaemonFCSun released Java under GPL 2Aug 14 17:52
DaemonFCwhich means that the patents covering it were licensed as wellAug 14 17:53
DaemonFCgenerally, when you buy a company you inherit their existing legal obligationsAug 14 17:53
DaemonFCso this should render Oracle's claims invalidAug 14 17:53
DaemonFCright?Aug 14 17:53
MinceRpossiblyAug 14 17:53
DaemonFCso Oracle could patent new Java functions and release them as CDDL but not GPL or somethingAug 14 17:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Signs That .NET is Suffering, Not http://techrights.org/2010/08/14/why-dot-net-is-dying/ #Java #swpats #scoracleAug 14 17:54
TechrightsBotTitle: Signs That .NET is Suffering, Not Java | Techrights .::. Size~: 92.82 KBAug 14 17:54
DaemonFCand avoid granting a license to the 'free" Java runtimesAug 14 17:54
DaemonFCso they could still force "free" Java into patent infringement Aug 14 17:54
DaemonFCby extending Java and not granting the new patentsAug 14 17:54
MinceRor they could force java to forkAug 14 17:54
DaemonFCalso trueAug 14 17:55
MinceRshould be obvious to larry that he'd be stabbing himself in the balls if he did thatAug 14 17:55
MinceRthen again, he might already be doing thatAug 14 17:55
DaemonFCreleasing them under CDDL makes the extensions worthless to GPL runtimesAug 14 17:55
DaemonFCsuch as OpenJDKAug 14 17:55
DaemonFCbut still covers their own customers Aug 14 17:55
DaemonFCand allows them to continue saying Java is openAug 14 17:55
DaemonFCso they could still smother OpenJDK and take Java back that wayAug 14 17:56
DaemonFCor force the FSF to relicense OpenJDK under the CDDLAug 14 17:56
DaemonFCto merge new features in Oracle JavaAug 14 17:56
schestowitz[17:21] <DaemonFC> I doubt Oracle will sue to stop OpenJDK, but their policy regarding it is the same as Microsoft's regarding Mono it seemsAug 14 17:57
DaemonFCthere's a lot of interesting ways Oracle might be able to beat the free Java implementations into submission or just kill them outrightAug 14 17:57
schestowitzWhat a foolAug 14 17:57
DaemonFCor jsut sit back and continue suing anyone stupid enough to keep using itAug 14 17:57
DaemonFCespecially if Google loses the lawsuitAug 14 17:57
DaemonFCOpenJDK = MonoAug 14 17:57
DaemonFCmaybe even worseAug 14 17:58
MinceRit's that equals sign againAug 14 17:58
MinceRlolAug 14 17:58
MinceRworse, how?Aug 14 17:58
DaemonFCOracle isn't just making idle threatsAug 14 17:58
DaemonFCif they beat Google, they get a shitload of moneyAug 14 17:58
DaemonFCand go on a lawsuit spreeeAug 14 17:58
schestowitz[17:36] <amarsh04> anyone done a law-suit Larry graphic yet?Aug 14 17:58
schestowitzWhat do you have in mind, amarsh04?Aug 14 17:58
MinceRDaemonFC: and if m$ kills gnu/linux, don't you think they'd made a shitload of money?Aug 14 17:59
schestowitz law-suit Larry =LSL =leisure suit LarryAug 14 17:59
MinceRs/ade/ake/Aug 14 17:59
DaemonFCMinceR, A lot of Java is now irrelevant anyway Aug 14 17:59
MinceRs/kills/killed/Aug 14 17:59
MinceRDaemonFC: elaborateAug 14 17:59
schestowitz[17:41] <MinceR> maybe he will kill javaAug 14 17:59
DaemonFCremember the original point of Java applets was to be this bloated pile of shit that basically provides neat tricks that Flash can doAug 14 17:59
schestowitzOracle products use JavaAug 14 17:59
DaemonFCand now HTML 5Aug 14 17:59
schestowitzIt's an assetsAug 14 17:59
schestowitz*assetAug 14 18:00
DaemonFCso it's worthless as a browser plug-inAug 14 18:00
schestowitzMaybe he wants to 'monetise' itAug 14 18:00
MinceRare you saying that oracle isn't paying moles to push java into random parts of gnu/linux, but m$ is? :>Aug 14 18:00
schestowitzMany corps use it internallyAug 14 18:00
DaemonFCand for desktop apps, things like Python exist now that are much more robust than they were when Java came aboutAug 14 18:00
MinceRafaik that was not the original point of javaAug 14 18:00
DaemonFCyeah it wasAug 14 18:00
schestowitz[17:44] <MinceR> and tell larry to fuck himself :> Aug 14 18:00
MinceRit was supposed to be a portable language for embedded systems, iircAug 14 18:00
schestowitzI bet he tried, that narcissistAug 14 18:00
DaemonFCSun was pushing Java to be what Flash became Aug 14 18:00
DaemonFCremember the HotJava browser?Aug 14 18:00
MinceRyes, one time sun was pushing it as suchAug 14 18:00
MinceRdoesn't mean it began that wayAug 14 18:01
DaemonFCand Sun trying to tell everyone about the features of an applet?Aug 14 18:01
MinceRremember Oak?Aug 14 18:01
schestowitzInstead he got 4 wives with kids all over the placeAug 14 18:01
schestowitzIt'll take some generation for this poisoned DNA to dissipateAug 14 18:01
DaemonFCwell, Java tried to expand into everything at onceAug 14 18:01
MinceRhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oak_%28programming_language%29Aug 14 18:01
TechrightsBotTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 14 18:01
DaemonFCand it killed itself by doing everything worse than a dedicated piece of software for only that taskAug 14 18:02
MinceRno, it didn'tAug 14 18:02
DaemonFCno end user really needs Java nowAug 14 18:02
MinceRit seems to be being killed by larryAug 14 18:02
DaemonFCthere's no killer desktop Java appAug 14 18:02
DaemonFCthere'ws no need for the plug-inAug 14 18:02
DaemonFCit does nothing usefulAug 14 18:02
MinceRthere's no eclipse?Aug 14 18:02
DaemonFCit adds tons of security problemsAug 14 18:02
amarsh04was just a thought schestowitz... one would have to use something *not* from the LSL game (ie a photo of someone in a lounge/leisure suit) that could be morphed with a Larry Ellison headshotAug 14 18:02
MinceRthere are no android phone owners?Aug 14 18:02
DaemonFCMinceR, J2ME is not the pointAug 14 18:03
MinceRandroid is not j2meAug 14 18:03
schestowitzamarsh04: what would he do though?Aug 14 18:03
DaemonFCJava database software is not the pointAug 14 18:03
DaemonFCI don't need JavaAug 14 18:03
schestowitzI think LSL is also copyrightedAug 14 18:03
DaemonFCfor anythingAug 14 18:03
MinceRbut yes, j2me is javaAug 14 18:03
schestowitzWikipedia might have fair use examplesAug 14 18:03
DaemonFCbecause it's useless for desktop appsAug 14 18:03
DaemonFCand in a web browserAug 14 18:03
DaemonFCso why would I install it?Aug 14 18:03
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_suit_larryAug 14 18:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Leisure Suit Larry (series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 53.11 KBAug 14 18:03
MinceRDaemonFC: protip: you're not the only computer user in the worldAug 14 18:03
amarsh04not sure, schestowitz, could have the character on what looks like an Ellison yachtAug 14 18:04
DaemonFCJava basically just massively increases the attack surface of your systemAug 14 18:04
MinceRhow?Aug 14 18:05
DaemonFCand at least on Windows, it loads update checkers and various control panel crappletsAug 14 18:05
MinceRdoes it open ports that shouldn't be open?Aug 14 18:05
MinceRno wait, that's what winblows doesAug 14 18:05
schestowitzamarsh04: it's low-res for fair use... let's see what I can do :-)Aug 14 18:05
DaemonFCso you get resource usage constantlyAug 14 18:05
DaemonFCand something that's dedicated to installing new software behind the scenesAug 14 18:05
MinceRi don't see how control panel applets cause constant resource usageAug 14 18:05
MinceRcan you explain it to me?Aug 14 18:05
DaemonFCthe Java Update Checker Aug 14 18:05
MinceRthat's not a control panel appletAug 14 18:06
DaemonFCit loads on startup, and isntalls new Java versions without permissionAug 14 18:06
MinceRit's just a hack to get around winblows' lack of a package manager :>Aug 14 18:06
DaemonFCright, but it bloats your control panel as wellAug 14 18:06
MinceRstrange, last time i checked it actually asked for permissionAug 14 18:06
DaemonFCand doesn't always uninstall the crapplets when you've had enough and get rid of JavaAug 14 18:06
DaemonFCwell, nothing like having the fucking thing download 100 MB Java updates every week when you may be on a metered connectionAug 14 18:06
DaemonFCor trying to use your bandwidth for something elseAug 14 18:07
MinceRbetter to never update anythingAug 14 18:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] Gnome Foundation strenghtens its copyright control and gatekeeper role http://bit.ly/cK5GZz #copyright #swpatAug 14 18:07
DaemonFCor just want a lot of unexplained disk thrashing as it unpacks itselfAug 14 18:07
TechrightsBotTitle: GNOME Foundation sets out new rules for copyright assignment - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.98 KBAug 14 18:07
MinceRthat's the point winblows update is trying hard to drive home, tooAug 14 18:07
DaemonFCYeah, Java for me jsut really represents a chance to install something totally useless with a lot of security problems that wastes disk space, RAM, and my bandwidth Aug 14 18:08
DaemonFCI'll pass\Aug 14 18:08
DaemonFCIf it does something useful for you, wonderfulAug 14 18:08
DaemonFCoddly enough it's even a pain in the ass on LinuxAug 14 18:08
DaemonFCbecause it makes for some MASSIVE "updates"Aug 14 18:08
DaemonFCthat clog a lot of bandwidth even if you don't use JavaAug 14 18:08
DaemonFCbut it's much worse on WindowsAug 14 18:09
MinceRif you don't use it, why do you have it installed?Aug 14 18:09
DaemonFCdistros like to bundle it or sneak it in after the factAug 14 18:09
DaemonFCFedora buncles itAug 14 18:09
DaemonFCUbuntu sneaks it in as a dependency of unrelated thingsAug 14 18:09
DaemonFC*bundlesAug 14 18:09
DaemonFCso you can end up with it even if it serves no useful purpose on your PCAug 14 18:10
DaemonFCeasilyAug 14 18:10
MinceRwell, if the lawsuit goes the way you think it does, fedora might well stop bundling it :>Aug 14 18:10
DaemonFCGoes the way I hope it doesAug 14 18:10
DaemonFCI hope it goes that way so Java can just die alreadyAug 14 18:10
MinceRso what?Aug 14 18:10
DaemonFCwatch, Oracle will drive people away from Java en masse if Google losesAug 14 18:10
DaemonFCthe platform will probably shrivel and die even in the places it was usefulAug 14 18:11
DaemonFCor the idiots that use it can go buy Solaris or somethingAug 14 18:11
MinceRwhy do you want it to die?Aug 14 18:11
DaemonFCso it can stop pestering me Aug 14 18:11
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 18:11
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: don't you just love short sited moguls?Aug 14 18:11
MinceRmaybe he only loves one particular group of short-sighted mogulsAug 14 18:12
DaemonFCJava is useful to probably half a percent of the Linux users who end up with itAug 14 18:12
DaemonFCit's even worse than unrequested Mono installsAug 14 18:12
MinceRexcept that it's betterAug 14 18:12
DaemonFCbig blob of shit that sits there making for hundreds of megs a month more updates and does nothing for the user?Aug 14 18:13
ZiomatrixIf Oracle comes out the victor WebOS is definitely dead: http://tinyurl.com/2vnxcqaAug 14 18:13
DaemonFCheheAug 14 18:13
TechrightsBotTitle: Java Services - WebOS Internals .::. Size~: 15.01 KBAug 14 18:13
MinceRwell, i'm not going to miss webOS (or is that spyOS?)Aug 14 18:13
DaemonFCMinceR, I'd rather them just dump 200-300 Megabytes of empty packages on meAug 14 18:14
ZiomatrixMinceR: SkyOS?Aug 14 18:14
DaemonFCand redownload them once a week for no reasonAug 14 18:14
DaemonFCat least that wouldn't cause security problemsAug 14 18:14
ZiomatrixMinceR: I can turn off Google location services on my Pre whenever I want.Aug 14 18:14
MinceRZiomatrix: but can you keep it from reporting what programs you run and where you are to Palm/HP?Aug 14 18:14
ZiomatrixMinceR: yesAug 14 18:15
DaemonFCI ended up installing Google Maps on my phone to estimate my location based on the nearest cell tower when I need to know where I amAug 14 18:15
MinceRhow?Aug 14 18:15
MinceRmy phone has GPS and Ovi MapsAug 14 18:15
DaemonFCbecause the only other thing to do is activate the GPS system 24/7Aug 14 18:15
MinceRwhy 24/7?Aug 14 18:15
MinceRit can find satellites in a minute or soAug 14 18:15
DaemonFCbecause once you turn it on, the phone's OS won't let you turn it back offAug 14 18:16
MinceRlolAug 14 18:16
ZiomatrixMinceR: you can turn it all off under the "Location Services" menu. In fact I can leave auto locate on while turning off 3rd party Background Data Collecting.Aug 14 18:16
MinceRwhat a POSAug 14 18:16
DaemonFCbut if you leave it off, it only gets used for 911 callsAug 14 18:16
MinceRZiomatrix: i doubt that the programs you run qualify as "location services"Aug 14 18:16
ZiomatrixMinceR: that is one thing I wish WebOS had, a decent 3rd party GPS mapping applicationAug 14 18:16
DaemonFCor if the FBI wants to locate you I guessAug 14 18:16
DaemonFCbut then again, they can just tell your phone's microphone to activate, silentlyAug 14 18:17
DaemonFCand record everything the phone picks up to use against you in court :)Aug 14 18:17
ZiomatrixMinceR: Google Maps, weather software, there are plenty that update based on GPS/aGPS taggingAug 14 18:17
schestowitzamarsh04: postedAug 14 18:17
DaemonFCMinceR, The police don't use that very often because they don't want people to know they can and do do itAug 14 18:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Leisure Suit Larry Ellison http://techrights.org/2010/08/14/leisure-suit-larry-ellison/ #lsl #humour #scoracleAug 14 18:18
TechrightsBotTitle: Caricature: Law Suit Larry | Techrights .::. Size~: 87.59 KBAug 14 18:18
DaemonFCso either they typically don't use it or just don't admit it as evidence laterAug 14 18:18
DaemonFCbut just use it to gain other info laterAug 14 18:18
DaemonFCthat they could have just "come across somehow"Aug 14 18:18
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: already addressed with v1.4 update: http://tinyurl.com/2eg5bgq But I know if there is a will there is always a way. Or if not complain like Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and India did to RIM to hand over the encryption key for their servicesAug 14 18:18
TechrightsBotTitle: webOS SMS exploit revealed, fixed in 'current version' of webOS | PreCentral.net .::. Size~: 90.09 KBAug 14 18:18
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: if a government can't crack it, they simply threaten the company they can't sell it ;)Aug 14 18:19
DaemonFCZiomatrix, Right, well, in the American legal system, there's what's known as the "fruit of the poisonous tree" metaphor. This means that if the police turn on my phone's mic without a court order saying they can do it, and they learn something that enables them to find new evidence, then that evidence can be suppressed later on. To avoid that, they would turn on the mic without a court order telling them it's OK, eavesdrop until I lead them to some oAug 14 18:21
DaemonFCther evidence, and then admit the other evidence, but not mention how they learned of it.Aug 14 18:21
DaemonFCso they know their way around the fourth amendment Aug 14 18:21
DaemonFCso the only option you have is to yank the battery and sim card out of your phoneAug 14 18:21
DaemonFCbefore you have a conversation regarding illegal activities with someone Aug 14 18:22
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: of course, but would any sane intelligence agency would ever want to reveal their methods of eavesdropping?Aug 14 18:22
DaemonFCit's the only way to be sure you don't lead the police right to something else that they can use laterAug 14 18:22
DaemonFCand make sure they don't have a powered on cell phone on them eitherAug 14 18:22
DaemonFC:DAug 14 18:22
DaemonFCso basically, I think that's why phones are so cheapAug 14 18:23
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Twitter now lists - "You both follow" on profile page. It will be helpful if they provide - "He is following whom you don't follow" #twitterAug 14 18:23
DaemonFCthe government can use them to monitor you remotely Aug 14 18:23
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: well it use to be folks used those throw away cellphone with SIM cards they bought at grocery storesAug 14 18:23
DaemonFCand so it's worth subsidizing them behind the scenesAug 14 18:23
amarsh04thanks, that was quick, schestowitz (-:Aug 14 18:23
schestowitzGIMPed inAug 14 18:23
DaemonFCZiomatrix, I believe that's why the government is always subsidizing "new infrastructure"Aug 14 18:24
DaemonFClike paying to put in a cell tower for for profit companies to useAug 14 18:24
DaemonFCit's in their own best interestAug 14 18:24
schestowitzamarsh04: Florian busted further: http://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/#comment-98040Aug 14 18:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 111.79 KBAug 14 18:24
schestowitzPerhaps PJ is seeing it, though I think she prefers never to engage with himAug 14 18:24
DaemonFCZiomatrix, Well, those disposable prepaid phones can get you in trouble tooAug 14 18:25
DaemonFCthere's ways to find out who owns what phoneAug 14 18:25
DaemonFClike if the criminal is stupid enough to pay for it with their credit/debit cardAug 14 18:25
DaemonFCor pulling security videos of them buying the phone from the storeAug 14 18:25
DaemonFCWal-Mart retains all the camera video footage of all their stores for one yearAug 14 18:26
DaemonFCso if you walk into a Wal-Mart, then you're on video walking around in that store, and that video can be pulled for a further 12 monthsAug 14 18:26
DaemonFCOf course, a lot of those camera globes are fakeAug 14 18:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] Why be so negative about #Bilski? http://bit.ly/bjgw4m #swpatAug 14 18:27
TechrightsBotTitle: Moglen: Bilski decision set back patent reform for more than a decade | ZDNet  .::. Size~: 92.81 KBAug 14 18:27
DaemonFC90% of the real ones are in Electronics and Cosmetics, high theft areas or places with lots of high value merchandise Aug 14 18:27
DaemonFCthe ones in the receiving bays are realAug 14 18:27
ZiomatrixDaemonFC: I can't believe the Soviet bureaucrats or ones at the KGB never saw the benefit of everyone having consumer electronics. They always focused on military and left their people with not much to enjoy from the "fruits of their labor." It was the key issue concerning discontent, among food shortagesAug 14 18:27
DaemonFCthe ones over the registers are all realAug 14 18:27
DaemonFCthey monitor for employee theft much more agressively than customer theftAug 14 18:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] What's the difference between Jailbreaking and Rooting? Are they the same thing?Aug 14 18:28
DaemonFCthe employees in a retail store are responsible for about 80% of the theft from that storeAug 14 18:28
DaemonFCso you watch them more carefullyAug 14 18:28
schestowitzZiomatrix: http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/12/palm-enabling-webos-apps-to-interact-with-universal-search-dock/Aug 14 18:29
DaemonFCthere's also about 4-6 real cameras mounted on the outside front of the store watching the parking lot, but they are not high resolution Aug 14 18:29
TechrightsBotTitle: Palm enabling webOS apps to interact with Universal Search, dock mode? -- Engadget .::. Size~: 152.94 KBAug 14 18:29
DaemonFCso if your car is vandelized, they can show you what color of clothes the vandal was wearingAug 14 18:29
DaemonFCthere's also a few on the sides and rear of the stores so they can catch people vandalizing the store itself Aug 14 18:29
DaemonFCthey care much more about that than what happens to customers/their customers property in the parking lotAug 14 18:30
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 18:30
DaemonFCthey only care about that so far as they can be suedAug 14 18:30
Ziomatrixschestowitz: well Universal Search or "Synergy" as its called is a key WebOS feature that enables to link up multiple accounts into a single Contact as well as sync calendar info from multiple services such as Google, Facebook and others. So yes WebOS is not really designed for privacy, but it still gives you options for it. Aug 14 18:31
DaemonFCbut their data retention policies combined with the fact that all the cameras over the registers and in Electronics are real, means that you're on video buying the prepaid phone at a certain time indexAug 14 18:31
DaemonFCand the video is kept for a yearAug 14 18:31
DaemonFCand can be matched to the time of the transactionAug 14 18:31
DaemonFCthen once they have a clear picture of who bought it, they use face recognition software to run the person's face against driver's license/state ID recordsAug 14 18:32
DaemonFCwhich will lead them to you, at your houseAug 14 18:32
Ziomatrixschestowitz: It also gives the ability to scour and add info of contacts on its own (if available or allowed in the settings of the one being searched, it depends on ones' Facebook privacy settings as well as your relation with them as a buddy)Aug 14 18:32
DaemonFCeven if you bought the phone in cashAug 14 18:32
DaemonFCso this new bill proposal to force you to show ID at the register to buy a prepaid phone is not so they CAN identify youAug 14 18:32
DaemonFCit's to make it more convenient for them to identify youAug 14 18:33
DaemonFCthey can right nowAug 14 18:33
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 18:33
Ziomatrixschestowitz: with the new patch creating security permissions within the PDK, it only makes sense to add an enable/disable option for Synergy concerning 3rd party appsAug 14 18:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: passports hereAug 14 18:34
DaemonFCReally once you walk into a Walmart, you're on a number of very long lived CCTV recordingsAug 14 18:34
DaemonFCit's like being in public in the UKAug 14 18:34
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 18:34
schestowitzyour phone is your RFIDAug 14 18:34
DaemonFCschestowitz, RFID chip in passportsAug 14 18:34
schestowitzThey can have a neat map of how you move during the dayAug 14 18:34
DaemonFCtoss it in the microwave for 3 secondsAug 14 18:34
schestowitzA friend of mine who works for O2 says they are required to keep all the dataAug 14 18:35
DaemonFCschestowitz, US law states that the passport is valid even if the RFID chip "malfunctions"Aug 14 18:35
DaemonFCso just microwave it for a few secondsAug 14 18:35
DaemonFC:DAug 14 18:35
schestowitzPeople already have RFID chips in their pocketsAug 14 18:35
schestowitzIt's called mobile phonesAug 14 18:35
DaemonFCit's not microwave shieldedAug 14 18:35
DaemonFC3 seconds ought to fry itAug 14 18:35
schestowitzThey can switch them off, but then they can't be reached by "loves ones"/bossAug 14 18:35
schestowitz*lovdAug 14 18:36
schestowitzDaemonFC: when I come to the US I need to give fingerprints. Everyone has toAug 14 18:36
schestowitzI mean, why would I want to immigrate to the US?Aug 14 18:36
DaemonFCdon'tAug 14 18:36
DaemonFCI really don't careAug 14 18:36
DaemonFC:DAug 14 18:36
schestowitzTo help pay back debt of $240,000 per person (last I checked)?Aug 14 18:36
DaemonFCI don't careAug 14 18:37
DaemonFCI have no reason to careAug 14 18:37
schestowitzYou need medicareAug 14 18:37
schestowitzObamacareAug 14 18:37
DaemonFCno I don'tAug 14 18:37
schestowitzNo money leftAug 14 18:37
schestowitzhttp://insidehpc.com/2010/08/13/what-to-read-at-insidehpc-this-week-35/Aug 14 18:37
TechrightsBotTitle: What to read at insideHPC this week | insideHPC.com  .::. Size~: 27.12 KBAug 14 18:37
DaemonFCschestowitz, Thanks to the "Commerce Clause" abuses, Real ID is supposedly legalAug 14 18:38
DaemonFCso it's not like the Constitution protects meAug 14 18:38
DaemonFCwhy should it protect you?Aug 14 18:39
DaemonFCwhy do I care if it protects you?Aug 14 18:39
DaemonFCsame with ObamaCareAug 14 18:39
schestowitzDaemonFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfpz_ZwL0ok&feature=digestAug 14 18:39
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Charlie Rose - David Rubenstein .::. Size~: 86.86 KBAug 14 18:39
schestowitzI watched it this morningAug 14 18:39
DaemonFCI'd like to see what happens if these states make good on their threat to not implement ObamaCareAug 14 18:39
schestowitzChina's economy will outpace yours not so long from nowAug 14 18:39
DaemonFCwatch that federal "highway money" disappear or somethingAug 14 18:40
schestowitzThey already have more Net users than than USAug 14 18:40
DaemonFCthe Commerce Clause is how they beat an endless stream of concessions out of the statesAug 14 18:40
Ziomatrixschestowitz: concentrated in major cities thoughAug 14 18:40
DaemonFCAsian countries Aug 14 18:40
Ziomatrixschestowitz: the PRC has done squat for their rural communities as of lateAug 14 18:40
DaemonFCyou can't wipe them out if you tryAug 14 18:40
DaemonFCtheir own government passes out 10x strength cigarettesAug 14 18:41
DaemonFCfree condomsAug 14 18:41
DaemonFCforced abortionsAug 14 18:41
DaemonFCmass executionsAug 14 18:41
DaemonFCand so onAug 14 18:41
Ziomatrixschestowitz: then again the US federal and state governments are not great either, besides heavy subsidizing for farms and primary access for them to aquifers Aug 14 18:41
DaemonFCand they still have a billion people thereAug 14 18:41
DaemonFCschestowitz, I tried to smoke a Chinese cigarette onceAug 14 18:41
DaemonFCwhich I found a pack of in a cargo container Aug 14 18:42
DaemonFCalong with the guys lighterAug 14 18:42
DaemonFCwhich played "Light My Fire" when openedAug 14 18:42
DaemonFC:PAug 14 18:42
Ziomatrixschestowitz: the income disparity in China is huge, and considering the nature of the government any sign of political reaction from anyone can make them as their family lose everything over night.Aug 14 18:42
DaemonFCand I couldn't make it past the first hitAug 14 18:42
DaemonFCthat's the harshest cigarette I've ever smokedAug 14 18:42
DaemonFCthey make Camel unfiltered look like something you give to little girlsAug 14 18:42
ZiomatrixbrbAug 14 18:43
*Ziomatrix has quit (Quit: Ziomatrix)Aug 14 18:43
DaemonFCI'm sure their cigarettes are made to be extra toxic for population control Aug 14 18:43
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DaemonFCI still have my OSHA certification licenses for several forklift types Aug 14 18:46
DaemonFCnot really sure whyAug 14 18:46
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKZcr-UxeEkAug 14 18:47
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Order Picker, high level order picking - Atlet Order Picker .::. Size~: 86.17 KBAug 14 18:47
DaemonFCthose are actually kind of fun to driveAug 14 18:48
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1KbWdxP9ak&feature=relatedAug 14 18:49
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Raymond Order Picker .::. Size~: 86.85 KBAug 14 18:49
DaemonFCthere's the kind I usedAug 14 18:49
ZiodotmatrixDaemonFC: did you ever see the Klause forklift training video?Aug 14 18:49
DaemonFCfeels like driving a tankAug 14 18:49
DaemonFCyeahAug 14 18:49
DaemonFCheheAug 14 18:49
DaemonFCthose have a drive by wire systemAug 14 18:50
ZiodotmatrixDaemonFC: I wish more training videos for heavy machinery were comically frankAug 14 18:50
DaemonFCturn down a picking aisle, wait for the tone, flip the switch, and it locks onto the wire Aug 14 18:50
DaemonFCbut it'll limit you to about 1/2 a mph if you're over 3 feet elevationAug 14 18:51
DaemonFCso what I would do is turn down the aisle, aim forward, raise the platform while driving full speed, then flip the switch when I was ready to take my hand off the steering wheelAug 14 18:51
DaemonFC:PAug 14 18:51
DaemonFCwhich effectively overrides the safety systemAug 14 18:51
DaemonFC:DAug 14 18:51
DaemonFCthen once you're at the picking location and already at the desired height, with the guidance system active, the governor is off and you can go as fast as you wantAug 14 18:52
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 18:52
DaemonFCthen another neat trick to cycle through the picking wave in reverse to avoid aisles with other lifts in themAug 14 18:53
DaemonFCthen another way to work faster is to stack the pallet stable enough to pull two pallets worth of material from the wave at once Aug 14 18:54
DaemonFCthen you only have to drive back to the induction or shipping area half as muchAug 14 18:55
DaemonFCwhich means your battery also lasts longer Aug 14 18:55
DaemonFCyou figure these things out when you get incentive payAug 14 18:55
DaemonFC:DAug 14 18:55
DaemonFCthen you also keep in mind after a while, which battery numbers hold the most chargeAug 14 18:56
DaemonFCeven 1-2% difference could affect your incentive pay as much as $1 or so that dayAug 14 18:56
DaemonFCso I was making like $10 an hour, but then I was averaging another $5 an hour in incentive payAug 14 18:57
DaemonFCso I wasn't really doing all that badAug 14 18:57
DaemonFCthe "productivity reports" were funny to read at the end of every weekAug 14 18:57
DaemonFC"R. Farmer - 187%"Aug 14 18:57
DaemonFC"R. Farmer - 163%" (Bad week)Aug 14 18:58
DaemonFClolAug 14 18:58
DaemonFCit read out like I was the $6 million dollar man or something and all it was is that I figured out the rules governing their incentive pay system and adjusting my work habits accordingly Aug 14 18:59
schestowitzamarsh04: Groklaw might be wrong about Florian and Munich http://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/#comment-98046Aug 14 18:59
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 120.03 KBAug 14 18:59
schestowitzHe sent me dissatisfied mail about those allegations that came from GroklawAug 14 18:59
schestowitzSomeone should speak to PJ since she bans'ignores himAug 14 18:59
schestowitzShe's not sufficiently opent o debateAug 14 19:00
DaemonFClearning the rules of a system is important because it allows you to figure out just what you can get away with while still being technically in compliance with all of themAug 14 19:00
DaemonFCit's not exactly gaming the system as much as it is making the most out of itAug 14 19:00
*Ziodotmatrix (~wirc@ool-44c468e3.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovellAug 14 19:01
DaemonFCbut a system without any written rules is only exploitable from sitting back and watching how the system worksAug 14 19:01
DaemonFCreverse engineering Aug 14 19:01
DaemonFCMicrosoft loves systems without documented rules, the problem is that the way Windows works also makes it possible to eavedrop on the system and figure out pretty much everything that they kept secret and then used themselves Aug 14 19:03
DaemonFCso the whole idea of replacing Windows with a system written in "Managed Code" which verifies it's internal state with a TPM is to hinder reverse engineering effortsAug 14 19:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] xorg-server 1.9 is out very shortly http://ur1.ca/151j1 #xorg #linux #bsd #graphics #unixAug 14 19:04
DaemonFCsuddenly DRM becomes impossible to break and undocumented parts of the OS stay secret Aug 14 19:04
DaemonFCschestowitz, Microsoft has talked about this from time to time under the guise of "security"Aug 14 19:04
DaemonFCscrapping Windows, replacing it with a new OS with built in Win32 API virtualization Aug 14 19:05
schestowitzBad for you..Aug 14 19:05
schestowitzYou're using their waresAug 14 19:05
DaemonFCHow feasible do you think something like that really is if they haven't done it already?Aug 14 19:05
DaemonFCI mean, they've been saying that this is the future of their OS division since before Windows 2000 shipped Aug 14 19:06
DaemonFCand 10 years later, Windows 7 is still based on Windows 2000Aug 14 19:06
DaemonFCand suddenly they just stopped talking about the idea of replacing WindowsAug 14 19:06
DaemonFCthey can add DRM after the fact, but only so far as the framework of Windows NT allows Aug 14 19:08
DaemonFCwhich obviously frustrates themAug 14 19:08
DaemonFCobviously NT wasn't originally designed with things like DRM and Activation in mind Aug 14 19:09
DaemonFCso they're operating within the constraints of how Windows was designed 20 years agoAug 14 19:10
DaemonFCand their other "initiative" was to get PC hardware redesigned so that it could only boot their operating systemsAug 14 19:10
schestowitzhttp://half-left.deviantart.com/art/GNOME-Shell-Elementary-173972374?q=&qo=Aug 14 19:10
TechrightsBotTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 14 19:10
schestowitzGNOME candyAug 14 19:10
schestowitzLooks niceAug 14 19:10
DaemonFCThe Preschool project strikes againAug 14 19:11
DaemonFCIt's Mactastic!Aug 14 19:11
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 19:11
DaemonFCschestowitz, I have a feeling that GNOME Shell won't be an integral part of "GNOME 3"Aug 14 19:12
DaemonFCit requires hardware compositing which a lot of Linux drivers jsut can't provideAug 14 19:12
DaemonFCand so the system would almost never be able to boot into such an environment without proprietary drivers Aug 14 19:12
DaemonFCand you have Ubuntu basically ignoring it and designing their own workalike that doesn't require higher end graphics functionality Aug 14 19:14
DaemonFC(Unity)Aug 14 19:14
DaemonFCGNOME Shell was too ambitious given the limited reality of FOSS video driversAug 14 19:14
schestowitz http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.os.solaris.opensolaris.general/52752 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/13/opensolaris_is_dead/Aug 14 19:15
TechrightsBotTitle: OpenSolaris axed by Ellison • The Register .::. Size~: 30.33 KBAug 14 19:15
schestowitzDaemonFC: it's comcasticAug 14 19:15
schestowitzhttp://www.marcelgagne.com/content/too-much-oracle http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/08/oracle-attacks-opensource/Aug 14 19:15
TechrightsBotTitle: Too Much For Oracle? | Marcel Gagné .::. Size~: 24.72 KBAug 14 19:15
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle-Google Suit Attacks Open Source Software | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 82.83 KBAug 14 19:15
DaemonFCwell, Intel could support it with their driversAug 14 19:16
DaemonFC"Rip out your $500 GPU and behold the glory of GNU/GNU!!!"Aug 14 19:16
DaemonFCheheAug 14 19:16
schestowitzhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/16736/oracle_vs_google_over_java_in_android_is_only_the_startAug 14 19:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle vs. Google over Java in Android is only the start - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 73.29 KBAug 14 19:16
*Chips_B_Malroy (~username@nv-76-3-157-174.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 19:16
DaemonFCno... "Just rip out your GPU and behold the glory of GNU/GNU, designed for PCs from 1992!"Aug 14 19:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle's HQ looks like a petrol refinement facility. Like #BP , they try to be hated.Aug 14 19:18
Chips_B_MalroyHi allAug 14 19:18
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 19:18
DaemonFC"What did you buy that hardware for, you know this won't run on x64!?"Aug 14 19:18
DaemonFC"What's the use of OpenCL? (And DirectCompute can go to hell!)"Aug 14 19:21
DaemonFClolAug 14 19:21
schestowitzWho said Canonical does nothing? http://design.canonical.com/2010/08/finding-the-ubuntu-font-design/Aug 14 19:21
TechrightsBotTitle: Finding the Ubuntu font design «  Canonical Design .::. Size~: 16.89 KBAug 14 19:21
schestowitzRed Hat writes codeAug 14 19:22
DaemonFC"If you want this freedom, just buy a Dell*" (Provided you already know the hidden page exists)Aug 14 19:22
schestowitzCanonical does marketing, branding and stuffAug 14 19:22
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: heyAug 14 19:22
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: good newsAug 14 19:22
schestowitzunemployement said unchanged, even though like 200,000 just lost their jobs *rolls eyes*Aug 14 19:23
DaemonFC"ALSA stinks, it's full of bugs, you won't fix it by attending LUGs, but never fear, and don't you cry, get Windows 7 today, just buy buy, bye!"Aug 14 19:23
DaemonFC:PAug 14 19:24
DaemonFCYou too can be like Mr. Bacon!Aug 14 19:24
DaemonFC;)Aug 14 19:24
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Axon-Logic-Haptic/Aug 14 19:25
TechrightsBotTitle: Linux  tablet runs Windows and Mac OS X, too - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 54.14 KBAug 14 19:25
Chips_B_MalroyYes Roy, I wonder what the real unemployment rate is compared to the Great Depression.Aug 14 19:25
DaemonFCwell, the Great Depression didn't end because of FDR's spending spreeAug 14 19:25
DaemonFCit ended because Europe was bombed back to the stone ageAug 14 19:25
Chips_B_MalroyWW2 ending itAug 14 19:25
DaemonFCand we had the only manufacturing abilities for decades to comeAug 14 19:25
Chips_B_Malroylast thing we need is a war to get out of thisAug 14 19:26
DaemonFCa war won't get us out of this unless it decimates ChinaAug 14 19:26
DaemonFCand possibly Taiwan, Vietnam, India, and Mexico tooAug 14 19:26
DaemonFC:DAug 14 19:26
Chips_B_MalroyA war with Iran is still possibleAug 14 19:27
DaemonFCthat won't helpAug 14 19:27
DaemonFCWhat does Iran make that the world "needs" other than oil?Aug 14 19:27
DaemonFCthat's not the only problem here Aug 14 19:27
DaemonFCthere's no environmental protection laws in ChinaAug 14 19:28
Chips_B_Malroylast I looked, the US gov still buys most of its military hardware made in the USAAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCso even if Americans worked for free, and repealed worker safety laws, we'd still be more expensiveAug 14 19:28
Chips_B_Malroyso it would helpAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCnopeAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCthe uniforms are made in ChinaAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCthe steel is imported from ChinaAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCa lot of the small arms are imported from places like ItalyAug 14 19:28
DaemonFCthe boots are made in IndiaAug 14 19:29
DaemonFC:PAug 14 19:29
Chips_B_Malroyplanes. tanks, & bombs are still made here.  I am not advocating a war by any means.Aug 14 19:29
DaemonFCbasically the "Buy American" laws that did exist have been struck downAug 14 19:29
DaemonFCas "protectionism"Aug 14 19:29
DaemonFCwhile other countries engage in "protectionism" more than we ever didAug 14 19:29
DaemonFCwhile still lobbing the accusation at usAug 14 19:30
Chips_B_MalroyWell, I wanted to talk some on the Oracle vs Google lawsuit.Aug 14 19:31
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, The problem with fossil fuels is not that they can't be replaced, it's that anything that could replace them would cost 4-6 times as muchAug 14 19:31
DaemonFCit's cheaper to light cash money on fire and use the heat to power a turbine than it is to use solar panelsAug 14 19:31
DaemonFCwhich is why only the rich use solar panels (greenwashing)Aug 14 19:31
schestowitz[19:25] <Chips_B_Malroy> Yes Roy, I wonder what the real unemployment rate is compared to the Great Depression.Aug 14 19:32
schestowitzToday I heard 16% in the USAug 14 19:32
schestowitzFrom a US economist on the Charlie Rose showAug 14 19:32
Chips_B_MalroyI red what oiaohm had to say about it, which was interesting.Aug 14 19:32
schestowitz[19:27] <Chips_B_Malroy> A war with Iran is still possibleAug 14 19:32
schestowitzThere's no pointAug 14 19:32
schestowitzIt just needs more loans for weaponsAug 14 19:32
schestowitzAnd they have nothing of use, the US already has an outpost in the miseastAug 14 19:32
schestowitzTwo actuallyAug 14 19:32
schestowitzIsrael tooAug 14 19:32
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, There's a guy building self-sufficient homes out in the Sonora desertAug 14 19:33
DaemonFCwhich provide for all needsAug 14 19:33
DaemonFCincluding energy and waterAug 14 19:33
DaemonFCand they even have ample room to run a small greenhouse gardenAug 14 19:33
DaemonFCAND the things are made out of recycled garbageAug 14 19:33
schestowitzWelcome to New Eng... AmericaAug 14 19:33
Chips_B_MalroyI think Google failed by not using Native code (GNU) in Android and using JavaAug 14 19:33
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_Warrior_%28film%29Aug 14 19:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Garbage Warrior (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 20.88 KBAug 14 19:34
DaemonFCThat's what we should be buildingAug 14 19:34
schestowitzMore like Mad SamAug 14 19:34
DaemonFCnot more crap to run existing inefficient infrastructure Aug 14 19:34
schestowitzOR Burning Man festicaklAug 14 19:34
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, I am not advocating a war, far from it, only in passing say what is possible.Aug 14 19:34
schestowitz*vakAug 14 19:34
schestowitz*valAug 14 19:34
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: the neocons haven't enough powerAug 14 19:35
DaemonFChttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b1/Exterior_Jacobsen_House_Earthship_2009.JPGAug 14 19:35
TechrightsBotTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 14 19:35
schestowitzMaybe when Sarah become pres.Aug 14 19:35
DaemonFCthat thing needs NO external powerAug 14 19:35
schestowitz*comesAug 14 19:35
DaemonFCNO external waterAug 14 19:35
Chips_B_MalroyIts up to ObamaAug 14 19:35
DaemonFCNo external sewage hookupAug 14 19:35
DaemonFCAND it even grows food for you!Aug 14 19:35
schestowitzDaemonFC: I see you've been planning a moveAug 14 19:35
DaemonFCWHY are we not looking at these?Aug 14 19:35
schestowitzYour PC, cat, and gun fit in one caseAug 14 19:35
*ThistleWeb has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Aug 14 19:36
DaemonFCschestowitz Is scaredAug 14 19:36
DaemonFCschestowitz wuvs his nany stateAug 14 19:36
DaemonFCschestowitz's goal is to depend on them and their high taxes for everythingAug 14 19:36
schestowitzYou're projectingAug 14 19:36
DaemonFCschestowitz, I know you've evaded the question beforeAug 14 19:37
DaemonFCbut who actually employs you?Aug 14 19:37
Chips_B_MalroyI think Oracle messed up here.  They should have first talked to Google, then made public annoucements that Google was violating the terms of the GPL, and needed to fix that.Aug 14 19:37
DaemonFCI mean, you run Boycott Novell with enough hours that someone is obviously paying you to do itAug 14 19:37
Chips_B_MalroyYou ask personal questions DaemonFC, why?Aug 14 19:38
Chips_B_MalroyGive Roy a breakAug 14 19:38
DaemonFCWell, schestowitz isn't very openAug 14 19:38
DaemonFChe should be a role model for his own preachingAug 14 19:38
Chips_B_MalroyThere are many reasons one could have the time.Aug 14 19:38
Chips_B_MalroyWhich need not be discussed here.Aug 14 19:39
DaemonFCAlmost none of them are ethicalAug 14 19:39
Chips_B_MalroyHealth could be one, and a private one too.Aug 14 19:39
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 19:39
Chips_B_MalroyBack to OracleAug 14 19:39
Chips_B_MalroyIs Oracle sueing on the GPL Licence?Aug 14 19:40
DaemonFCthere's all kinds of extremists thoughAug 14 19:40
DaemonFCI agreeAug 14 19:40
Chips_B_MalroyI think yesAug 14 19:40
DaemonFCalmost everyone is some kind of an extremist Aug 14 19:40
DaemonFCsome are more dangerous than othersAug 14 19:40
Chips_B_MalroyNot meAug 14 19:40
Chips_B_MalroyI am middle of the Road, right down the ole centerAug 14 19:41
Chips_B_MalroyheheAug 14 19:41
DaemonFCI love soda, in an extreme wayAug 14 19:41
DaemonFCI am a soda extremist Aug 14 19:41
DaemonFCI don't think that's dangerous to othersAug 14 19:41
Chips_B_Malroysugar fixAug 14 19:41
Chips_B_Malroyits bad for youAug 14 19:41
DaemonFCPETA extremists on the other hand argue that human life is less valuable than a poisonous snakeAug 14 19:41
Chips_B_Malroysugar will make you crazyAug 14 19:41
DaemonFCthey go around blowing up private propertyAug 14 19:42
Chips_B_MalroyPETA people did too much sugar tooAug 14 19:42
Chips_B_Malroylook what happened to themAug 14 19:42
DaemonFCPETA is just totally whackAug 14 19:42
DaemonFCthey were out and about in Ft Wayne last week passing out fake ice creamAug 14 19:42
Chips_B_Malroythey lost all reasonAug 14 19:42
DaemonFCand dancing around in cow costumes Aug 14 19:42
Chips_B_Malroyno common sense at allAug 14 19:43
DaemonFCthat's just bizarre, not as bad as enacting a "cow murder scene" in a Burger KingAug 14 19:43
DaemonFCin front of peoples childrenAug 14 19:43
DaemonFCcomplete with red paint for "blood"Aug 14 19:43
Chips_B_Malroycattle are stupid crittersAug 14 19:43
Chips_B_Malroynot like horses Aug 14 19:43
DaemonFCtasty stupid critters Aug 14 19:43
DaemonFC:DAug 14 19:44
Chips_B_MalroyyepAug 14 19:44
Chips_B_Malroya meal on the hoofAug 14 19:44
Chips_B_Malroyso to speakAug 14 19:44
DaemonFCI guess what I find offensive, schestowitz has called me out on this before, is people eating cats and dogsAug 14 19:44
DaemonFCHumans have recognized that some animals display complex emotions and some level of intelligence Aug 14 19:45
Chips_B_Malroywhat, you never heard of people woking the dog?Aug 14 19:45
DaemonFCwhich is why I'd be offended at eating gorillasAug 14 19:45
DaemonFCor dolphins Aug 14 19:45
DaemonFCcows spend most of their lives shitting in a fieldAug 14 19:45
Chips_B_Malroywell, some places in this world, people just have to do things to surviveAug 14 19:46
DaemonFCand they were grown specifically for foodAug 14 19:46
DaemonFCit's totally different than going out and shooting a free roaming somewhat intelligent animalAug 14 19:46
Chips_B_Malroyback to OracleAug 14 19:46
Chips_B_MalroyOracle is not handling this very well, its going to get major bad press out of this.Aug 14 19:46
DaemonFCright, they had a chance to do the right thing and that's over with nowAug 14 19:47
DaemonFCthey've declared war via patentsAug 14 19:47
Chips_B_MalroyBad Press actually means something for SunAug 14 19:47
DaemonFCDoes Google have any patents that Oracle violates?Aug 14 19:47
Chips_B_Malroyis it patents or licenseing?  Is it the GPL that Oracle is using to sue?Aug 14 19:47
DaemonFCthat could be the next thingAug 14 19:47
DaemonFCa countersuitAug 14 19:47
DaemonFCnoAug 14 19:48
DaemonFCOracle is suing over patents that they probably gave licenses two under two sets of termsAug 14 19:48
DaemonFCCDDL and GPLAug 14 19:48
DaemonFCin either event they should loseAug 14 19:48
DaemonFC*licenses toAug 14 19:48
Chips_B_Malroywe will seeAug 14 19:48
schestowitzAug 14 19:48
schestowitz[19:37] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, I know you've evaded the question beforeAug 14 19:48
Chips_B_MalroyOiaohm's pointAug 14 19:49
schestowitzWhich one?Aug 14 19:49
DaemonFCWho sponsors youAug 14 19:49
schestowitzSorry, I'm catching up now...Aug 14 19:49
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/#comment-98066Aug 14 19:49
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 132.75 KBAug 14 19:49
schestowitzFlorian agitates for Microsoft..Aug 14 19:49
DaemonFCrunning a site isn't freeAug 14 19:49
DaemonFCmost people don't donate this much timeAug 14 19:49
schestowitz[19:37] <DaemonFC> I mean, you run Boycott Novell with enough hours that someone is obviously paying you to do itAug 14 19:49
schestowitzNoAug 14 19:49
schestowitzI do it as a hobbyAug 14 19:49
schestowitz[19:38] <DaemonFC> Well, schestowitz isn't very openAug 14 19:50
schestowitzI'm entirely openAug 14 19:50
schestowitzEven the IRC sessions are publicAug 14 19:50
schestowitzMy site schestowitz.com says more than I can even recall about meAug 14 19:50
Chips_B_Malroywas that Google changed Java for Android and did not provide upstream as per the GPL.  Google modified Java enough so Android apps would not run on GNU/Linux,  If I have Oiaohm's point correct on this?Aug 14 19:50
schestowitzAnd the Novell staff is already mining the site for dirtAug 14 19:50
schestowitzEven today they posted somethingAug 14 19:51
schestowitzTheir latest smear (de Icaza et al) is that I don't have a Ph.D.Aug 14 19:51
schestowitzWhich is a lieAug 14 19:51
schestowitzBut let them playAug 14 19:51
Chips_B_MalroyIf you can't debate the message, then attack the credibility of the messinger.Aug 14 19:52
schestowitz[19:45] <DaemonFC> Humans have recognized that some animals display complex emotions and some level of intelligence Aug 14 19:52
schestowitzPigs are possibly smarter than catsAug 14 19:52
schestowitzIn some waysAug 14 19:52
schestowitzHeck, DaemonFC, they are even smarter and better behaved then YOU !:-)Aug 14 19:52
schestowitz[19:46] <Chips_B_Malroy> Oracle is not handling this very well, its going to get major bad press out of this.Aug 14 19:53
schestowitzYesAug 14 19:53
schestowitzMedia attackAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCno, I don't eat my own shitAug 14 19:53
schestowitzNot from oracleAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCpigs do thatAug 14 19:53
schestowitzFFII reckons there's some media campaign going onAug 14 19:53
schestowitzExaggerating it allAug 14 19:53
schestowitzMaking it look like Android will dieAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCpigs will eat just about anything thoughAug 14 19:53
DaemonFCeven shit from other pigsAug 14 19:53
schestowitzI posted this in #techrights earlierAug 14 19:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: maybe if they are badly fedAug 14 19:54
Chips_B_MalroyI red you articleAug 14 19:54
schestowitzPeople in some conditions become head huntersAug 14 19:54
Chips_B_MalroyWhat we really don't want this to become (Oracle vs Google) is a test of the GPL.Aug 14 19:55
Chips_B_Malroyin courtAug 14 19:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] get em from cradle to grave, eh Rupe? http://bit.ly/bTXZWz #FoxKids #doNotWant #ipadAug 14 19:58
TechrightsBotTitle:  Murdoch to launch digital newspaper aimed at iPad users | Media | guardian.co.uk  .::. Size~: 104.54 KBAug 14 19:58
DaemonFCno, Pigs have a very inefficient digestive tractAug 14 19:59
DaemonFCthey have to eat their own shit to finish digesting the nutrients in itAug 14 19:59
DaemonFCL)Aug 14 19:59
DaemonFCnow go eat your baconAug 14 19:59
DaemonFC:DAug 14 19:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] whhhhat? 'We thought these places – the crown jewels of the landscape – had been saved for the nation' http://bit.ly/d1LDtW #uk #environmentAug 14 20:01
TechrightsBotTitle:  'Crown jewels' of Britain's landscape could be sold off | Environment | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 83.29 KBAug 14 20:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@slingbrush why do you claim it's at 'ground zero'? it's not. Also see the dozens of other mosques in the area. etc. #rwnjAug 14 20:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: jono is not edibleAug 14 20:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Happy Independence Day and Happy Birth Day Chetan - (my brother)Aug 14 20:04
schestowitzAnd you scared him away, I thinkAug 14 20:04
*schestowitz will ignore DaemonFC for a few hoursAug 14 20:04
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: yeah, I'm discussing this in TR ATMAug 14 20:05
DaemonFCjono is edible Aug 14 20:05
DaemonFCso am IAug 14 20:05
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/#commentsAug 14 20:05
DaemonFCand youAug 14 20:05
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 138.03 KBAug 14 20:05
schestowitzSee the comment from gnufreexAug 14 20:05
schestowitz'But they decided not to fight anti-GPL FUD that Microsoft sewed with device makers, and just go with the flow; just use ASL'd apache Harmony as base. Now they got burned by "additional freedom" that ASL gives.'Aug 14 20:05
schestowitzSeems like Microsoft uses this as a blitz against the competition, even though all that happened is an Oracle actionAug 14 20:06
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] abt hurt feelings? How does Japan feel about the appropriation of nuclear explosion term 'ground zero' to label a comparatively trivial siteAug 14 20:06
Chips_B_MalroyI known that everyone is against Software patents here, including me.  But this does not change the law of the land here in the USA, or other countries that have these laws.  So the battle has to be won in the arena of public opinion or the courts.  My thoughts are Judges like software patents.  Judges used to be lawyers first, and look upon that which provides incomes for lawyers as good.  So things have to get really Aug 14 20:07
Chips_B_Malroybad for the court system to strike down software patents in my opinion.Aug 14 20:07
Chips_B_MalroyIt will have to get a lot worse before it gets any better.  IF.Aug 14 20:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Reading Pdf Books on Andriod Tablet. Tablet is connected to WIFI and Ebooks are hosted at my homeserver. 4 devices are now connected to wifiAug 14 20:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] 'Without protection [of] national #nature reserve status these fragile sites would have been totally destroyed' http://bit.ly/d1LDtW #ukAug 14 20:08
TechrightsBotTitle:  'Crown jewels' of Britain's landscape could be sold off | Environment | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 83.12 KBAug 14 20:08
Chips_B_MalroyThe whole legal system has somewhat become a leech on sociaty, and profits from itAug 14 20:09
MinceR205605 < DaemonFC> jono is edibleAug 14 20:09
MinceRof course. he's made of bacon.Aug 14 20:09
Chips_B_MalroySCO cannot win, only the lawyers will be paidAug 14 20:09
MinceRChips_B_Malroy: well saidAug 14 20:10
MinceRand it does not only profit from it, it also lets control freaks wreak havoc on itAug 14 20:10
Chips_B_MalroySCO is only hanging around on its 3rd (and finial) appeal.Aug 14 20:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] hehe, point out that the planned mosque isn't even near ground zero and you'll be called a "muslim loving troll". Facts hurt, eh #rwnj?Aug 14 20:11
schestowitzI thought SCO was already unappealingAug 14 20:11
*Ziomatrix (~Ziomatrix@ool-44c468e3.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 20:11
schestowitzSCO is appalling, not appealing Aug 14 20:11
schestowitzHey, ZiomatrixAug 14 20:11
Chips_B_MalroyI think SCO will get turned down on the 3rd appeal, not to hear it.Aug 14 20:11
schestowitzSorry I hadn't caught the messages before, was busy arguingAug 14 20:12
schestowitzback in a moAug 14 20:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] 'Is the pen name mightier than the sword, or just a modern writer's flimsy foil?' http://is.gd/ehKsR Neat story from The Washington Post.Aug 14 20:12
TechrightsBotTitle: Is the pen name mightier than the sword, or just a modern writer's flimsy foil? .::. Size~: 99.02 KBAug 14 20:12
Ziomatrixschestowitz: no worriesAug 14 20:12
Chips_B_MalroyI think the SCO appeal also put the Novell sale on hold too.  Notice that the Novell sale is dragging on beyond what it should take time wise.  No pressure yet from Singer.  All the interest started in Novell right around the time that SCO lost the 2nd appeal.  Which tells me that someone things those Unix copyrights are worth something.Aug 14 20:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] I'm beginning to wish it *were* at ground zero. I mean, those towers were demolished for some grand purpose, right?Aug 14 20:15
Chips_B_Malroy*thinksAug 14 20:15
Chips_B_MalroyI need a spellchecker and grammar checker in this appAug 14 20:16
Chips_B_MalroyI would be looking very hard at this Novell sale if I was IBMAug 14 20:17
MinceRwhoa. building a house for a cult is a "grand purpose" now?Aug 14 20:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Auto Finance Company Uses GPS to Spy on car buyers: http://digg.com/d31ZayL?t Just great.Aug 14 20:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 14 20:20
schestowitzhttp://www.androidguys.com/2010/08/13/googles-response-oracles-suit/Aug 14 20:21
TechrightsBotTitle: Googles Response to Oracles Suit | AndroidGuys .::. Size~: 58.75 KBAug 14 20:21
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: which app?Aug 14 20:21
Chips_B_MalroyAndroid is taking off like a rocket.  The old saying was, "if you can't beat them, join them."  The new saying is, "if you can't make product with more uptake (beat them), then sue them."Aug 14 20:21
Chips_B_MalroykonversationAug 14 20:21
schestowitzIt has spellchekerAug 14 20:21
schestowitzIn the input line, right-clickAug 14 20:21
schestowitzToggle spellcheckAug 14 20:22
Chips_B_Malroyversion 1.1Aug 14 20:23
Chips_B_Malroynot finding a spellcheckerAug 14 20:23
schestowitz1.2 has itAug 14 20:23
schestowitzEven prior onesAug 14 20:23
schestowitzLike in KDE 4.3Aug 14 20:23
schestowitzWhen it was betaAug 14 20:23
schestowitzYou must be on pclos with kde4Aug 14 20:24
schestowitzYou must be on mepis with kde3Aug 14 20:24
schestowitzI meant...Aug 14 20:24
schestowitzWow, it's a slow news week...Aug 14 20:24
Chips_B_Malroyyes, I am still on Mepis 8.0 (based on lenny stable) kde 3.5Aug 14 20:24
schestowitzExcept Friday, due to Oracle killing OpenSOlaris and attacking GoogleAug 14 20:24
schestowitzIt's good I'm around at this timeAug 14 20:24
schestowitzOn Wednesday/Thursday I go to _goblin'sAug 14 20:25
schestowitzhttp://dot.kde.org/2010/08/12/kde-reaches-new-audiences-north-americaAug 14 20:25
TechrightsBotTitle: KDE Reaches New Audiences in North America | KDE.news .::. Size~: 15.83 KBAug 14 20:26
Chips_B_MalroyRoy> actually I am not running any PCLOS these days, although its good.  Have Mepis 8.5 KDE 4.3 on another machine and Sidux tooAug 14 20:27
schestowitzI might try pclos againAug 14 20:28
schestowitzI doesn't cost much, except timeAug 14 20:28
Chips_B_MalroyIts a nice little distro, especially for new users, which most of us need to help them withAug 14 20:29
DaemonFCLinux is free if your time has no valueAug 14 20:32
DaemonFCheheAug 14 20:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] @sjvn @segphault @mjasay One possibility is that Oracle wants to force Google to use original #Java code instead of incremental innovation.Aug 14 20:34
DaemonFChttp://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2006/04/Aug 14 20:34
MinceRit's still cheaper than any other kernel if your time has valueAug 14 20:35
schestowitzDaemonFC: fool!Aug 14 20:35
DaemonFC"At this point it seems like the last time we (accidentally) upgraded ALSA, it introduced some software bug that is making one channel go away. I can't even fathom how such a bug could exist, but that's Linux for you. "Aug 14 20:35
schestowitzI'll put you on ignore. Time was a reference to substitution for experimentationAug 14 20:35
MinceRignore? no second warning?Aug 14 20:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] So, good stewardship means selling the #environment off &replacing #UK useless nuclear submarines. Or in #Canada, useless fighter jets. #wtfAug 14 20:36
schestowitzMinceR: my /ignore is not a /kickbanAug 14 20:36
MinceRthat's sadAug 14 20:36
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> Linux is free if your time has no value."  Viruses are free for Windows users too, if your time has no value.Aug 14 20:36
MinceRit means that noise from such trolls will still be around and you won't see it, but others willAug 14 20:37
MinceRand so will the logAug 14 20:37
DaemonFCnever happens to meAug 14 20:37
schestowitz /alias  '/ignore'  /kickbanAug 14 20:37
MinceRrebooting 5 times after updates are free on winblows, if your time has no valueAug 14 20:37
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 20:37
schestowitzAnd Windows does not restore sessionsAug 14 20:37
sebsebseb Aug 14 20:37
DaemonFCso?Aug 14 20:37
schestowitzBut hey, it's not like there's much in just one virtual desktop :-)Aug 14 20:37
MinceRhaving your fullscreen apps being kicked out of full screen and having to reboot is also free on winblows, if your time has no valueAug 14 20:37
DaemonFCthat usually doesn't work right in KDE anywayAug 14 20:38
DaemonFCit likes to freeze upAug 14 20:38
DaemonFCand make you restart XAug 14 20:38
MinceRfinding the dozen utilities to make the winblows GUI manageable can be free, if your time has no valueAug 14 20:38
schestowitzDaemonFC: foolAug 14 20:38
schestowitzI've run this X session endlessly since I came back from LondonAug 14 20:38
DaemonFCsometimes you can click on the blank screen and KDE will continue loading thoughAug 14 20:38
MinceRfinding out whether pre-vista or pro-vista winblows versions manage to support a particular hardware is not free even if your time has no valueAug 14 20:38
MinceRsince you still need multiple winblows licenses :>Aug 14 20:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Palin's an unsound bite. And not at all a nice tasting one.Aug 14 20:39
schestowitzSee why theRyan 'uses' Linux?Aug 14 20:39
MinceRi seeAug 14 20:39
schestowitzHe learns how to bash itAug 14 20:39
schestowitzTroll trainingAug 14 20:39
MinceRmaybe he only hears it from fellow m$ trollsAug 14 20:39
schestowitzWhile he's on it he also curses jono and UbuntuAug 14 20:39
MinceRmyths spread in the cultAug 14 20:39
schestowitzAbout how it's "hard to set up"Aug 14 20:39
schestowitzCausing a mess in the communityAug 14 20:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@thegrumpyowl damn you and your common sense!Aug 14 20:40
schestowitzMicrosoft hired COO from Wal-martAug 14 20:40
schestowitzThen trolls :-)Aug 14 20:40
Chips_B_Malroywell, you can usually find something about a distro that you do not like.  It dosen't make the whole distro bad though.Aug 14 20:40
MinceRand you can find another distro, but you can't find another winblowsAug 14 20:40
DaemonFCcheck out LinuxAug 14 20:40
DaemonFCsee what's broken this timeAug 14 20:40
Chips_B_Malroyincluding bugsAug 14 20:40
DaemonFClaugh at itAug 14 20:40
DaemonFCmaybe fix itAug 14 20:41
MinceRit's easier to see what's broken in winblows: everything.Aug 14 20:41
DaemonFCfind something else brokenAug 14 20:41
MinceRand you don't get to fix itAug 14 20:41
DaemonFCcan't fix thatAug 14 20:41
MinceRmaybe you can work around itAug 14 20:41
Chips_B_Malroywindows on the other hand never seems to get fixedAug 14 20:41
MinceRand maybe it's free ...if your time is free.Aug 14 20:41
DaemonFCit's Linux, so it's easier to just install Windows and mark your own bugs WONTFIX for themAug 14 20:41
Chips_B_Malroyits still an malware target (windows) for the average JoeAug 14 20:41
DaemonFCWhenever I submit a detailed bug report to Ubuntu or Fedora it just sits there foreverAug 14 20:41
DaemonFCthen like 8 months later someone says "Yeah, it wuit doing that for some reason" and closes itAug 14 20:42
DaemonFC*quitAug 14 20:42
Chips_B_MalroyWindows is not Stable either.  You can bet that most users have to reinstall windows oftenAug 14 20:42
MinceRand there are no other distros, just ubuntu and fedoraAug 14 20:42
MinceRright?Aug 14 20:42
schestowitzFlorian is a lobbyist... http://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/#comment-98088Aug 14 20:42
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 147.59 KBAug 14 20:42
DaemonFCeither that or they abuse the bug reporter Aug 14 20:42
DaemonFCin the comments sectionAug 14 20:42
DaemonFCso to hell with itAug 14 20:42
MinceRwhen winblows refuses to recognize your USB HID devices, you can reboot it free of chargeAug 14 20:43
DaemonFCyeah, it recognizes my stuffAug 14 20:43
schestowitzor when the keyboard is doconnectedAug 14 20:43
DaemonFCsometimes Linux does, sometimes it doesn'tAug 14 20:43
schestowitzlast time I tried (many years ago), it needed a rebootAug 14 20:43
DaemonFCsometimes one distro does, and none of the rest doAug 14 20:43
DaemonFCsometimes I upgrade the same distro and it stops recognizing the same deviceAug 14 20:43
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> Whenever I submit a detailed bug report to Ubuntu or Fedora it just sits there forever"  depends on the bug, would be my guess.  If its a security bug, it probably got fast action, if a bug in codecs, not.Aug 14 20:43
DaemonFCit's not worth trying to figure out what the fuck they've doneAug 14 20:43
DaemonFCit's just notAug 14 20:44
DaemonFCit's not worth my effort to work around their myriad of ever changing bugsAug 14 20:44
MinceRsometimes winblows recognizes devices, sometimes it doesn'tAug 14 20:44
MinceReven when it does, it takes a minute to starts using itAug 14 20:44
MinceRwhile it advertises how smart it is and actually knows what a USB mouse isAug 14 20:44
DaemonFCWindows has never done anything remotely as perverse to me as LinuxAug 14 20:44
MinceRlike a retarded childAug 14 20:44
DaemonFCeverAug 14 20:44
DaemonFCEVER!Aug 14 20:44
schestowitzDaemonFC: OEMs fit the h/w to WIndowsAug 14 20:44
DaemonFCeven Windows 2000 works better than UbuntuAug 14 20:45
schestowitzIt's not the Linux partAug 14 20:45
schestowitzChoose h/w for LinuxAug 14 20:45
MinceRhe will never understand thatAug 14 20:45
DaemonFCthat's what they tell youAug 14 20:45
schestowitzStop using your Vista fangear to fail LinuxAug 14 20:45
DaemonFCisn't it?Aug 14 20:45
MinceRDaemonFC is a typical m$ trollAug 14 20:45
DaemonFCthen when you do it still doesn't work betterAug 14 20:45
MinceRhe believes that winblows drivers grow on treesAug 14 20:45
MinceRor m$ develops themAug 14 20:45
DaemonFCthey doAug 14 20:45
schestowitzTrollAug 14 20:45
Chips_B_MalroyNo, DaemonFC is just off on a rant todayAug 14 20:45
DaemonFCI have yet to find a device on any of my PCs without a Windows driverAug 14 20:45
DaemonFChappens on Linux all the timeAug 14 20:46
schestowitzMicrosoft developers grow on treesAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCor the driver is missing featuresAug 14 20:46
schestowitzThey live there, tooAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCor it's slowAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCor it murders XAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCI'm sick of itAug 14 20:46
MinceRthere are many devices that don't have winblows driversAug 14 20:46
schestowitzcode monkeys..Aug 14 20:46
MinceRcustom-made devices, devices for non-x86 computersAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCwhateverAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCI don't have thoseAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCI don't careAug 14 20:46
MinceRand now you can enjoy hardware that has no drivers for vista or vista7Aug 14 20:46
MinceRinteresting, i don't have hw that has no linux supportAug 14 20:46
MinceRso by your "logic", i winAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCif Windows has no driver for it, I don't need itAug 14 20:46
DaemonFCit's corner case hardware anyway if that happensAug 14 20:47
MinceRthat's because you're a m$ cultistAug 14 20:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: Windows fanboism is off boundariesAug 14 20:47
MinceRinterestingly enough, if a peripheral has no driver for linux, it's suddenly not corner caseAug 14 20:47
schestowitzYou can take it to #Vista -->Aug 14 20:47
DaemonFCLinux tells you it's there and refuses to use itAug 14 20:47
MinceRor if a piece of hw has drivers for winblows, but those drivers suck, who cares?Aug 14 20:47
DaemonFCit has nothing as nice as Device ManagerAug 14 20:47
DaemonFCit just tells you the PCI or USB IDAug 14 20:48
MinceRwhat's nice about it?Aug 14 20:48
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> even Windows 2000 works better than Ubuntu"  Then use something else then.  But I don't see Ubuntu forcing you to buy it already preinstalled on a computer like MS.  Ubuntu or Linux might not be your preverence, but it least they are free. Windows is not FREE in any sense of the word.Aug 14 20:48
DaemonFCand a little string about who made itAug 14 20:48
DaemonFCnot even WTF it isAug 14 20:48
MinceRall those nice yellow exclamation marks you can do nothing about?Aug 14 20:48
DaemonFCyou can't do anything about them maybeAug 14 20:48
MinceR"derp i added your monitor twice so it won't work, and you can't fix it. have fun lol"Aug 14 20:48
DaemonFCI go find a driverAug 14 20:48
Chips_B_MalroyYou don't like Ubuntu, move on to another distro or BSDAug 14 20:48
MinceRand then you realize it's not a driver problemAug 14 20:48
MinceRor there's no driverAug 14 20:49
MinceRor there's a driver but it doesn't workAug 14 20:49
DaemonFCXP and Vista drivers will work in a pinchAug 14 20:49
MinceRor they will failAug 14 20:49
DaemonFCThe Linux hardware cavity search Aug 14 20:49
DaemonFCthat driver must be somewhere!Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCBut what is the device, and what does it do?Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCShhh!Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCjust find the driver!Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCit won't build, Make says Error 2!Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCWTF does that mean? Shhhh! Google it!Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCGoogle has no answers about this!Aug 14 20:50
DaemonFCShhhh, just don't use that aspect of your computer!Aug 14 20:50
Chips_B_Malroyuse a distro that puts all the drivers in the kernelAug 14 20:51
MinceR214103 < DaemonFC> But what is the device, and what does it do?Aug 14 20:51
MinceRhave you heard about lspci and lsusb?Aug 14 20:51
MinceRor tools that query hald?Aug 14 20:51
DaemonFC3 hours later, I figured out how to compile it, and did make install and rebooted and the module loaded, but now the device is malfunctioning....Aug 14 20:51
MinceRof course not, they don't speak about those in redmondAug 14 20:51
DaemonFCShhhh, try another distro!Aug 14 20:51
DaemonFCOne with kernel drivers!Aug 14 20:51
DaemonFCDo those even exist upstream?Aug 14 20:52
DaemonFCShhh, can't hurt to look, gtfo Windoze fanboi!!! lulz!!!Aug 14 20:52
DaemonFC3 hours later "Shit, well, it turns out I needed to blacklist this other thing and this distro moved the init script out of the standard location it's in on every other distro!"Aug 14 20:53
DaemonFCNow it works!Aug 14 20:53
DaemonFC*Install a patch that looks innocent enough through update manager* *system fails to reboot*Aug 14 20:53
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 20:53
DaemonFCwhat's funny is that Ubuntu is now removing the package that contains locateAug 14 20:54
DaemonFCI guess so they can be more Suse likeAug 14 20:54
DaemonFCsave 10 kilobytes or something Aug 14 20:55
DaemonFCI keep wondering when they'll remove the user's ability to launch a terminal window Aug 14 20:55
DaemonFCright after they introduce Nautilus Preschool I guessAug 14 20:56
DaemonFCPerfection doe after all, mean "When there's nothing left to remove", right?Aug 14 20:56
DaemonFCThat's what GNOME says anyway, but Ubuntu is implementing the hell out of thatAug 14 20:56
*FurnaceBoy (~FurnaceBo@ns2.smartgames.ca) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 20:57
DaemonFCso they can't guarantee that your system will work, and they strip out the tools you need to help diagnose and fix the problemAug 14 20:57
DaemonFCso yes, Ubuntu is especially disgusting Aug 14 20:57
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC>why are you so stuck on Ubuntu?  There are lots of other choices out there.Aug 14 20:58
MinceRthere's life beyond ubuntuAug 14 20:58
DaemonFCEither guarantee that my system will work, or leave a fallback that will at least boot the system and let me fix thingsAug 14 20:58
DaemonFCFedora has this problemAug 14 20:58
DaemonFCso does SuseAug 14 20:59
DaemonFCso does MandrivaAug 14 20:59
MinceRwho guarantees that your system will work?Aug 14 20:59
DaemonFCwell, it all seems to work fine in WindowsAug 14 20:59
Chips_B_Malroynot M$Aug 14 20:59
FurnaceBoyhheAug 14 20:59
DaemonFCI can even boot up with my DVI connection without yanking it out and finding a VGA cableAug 14 20:59
Chips_B_Malroymaybe its not too late to get your MVP title backAug 14 20:59
*FurnaceBoy gigglesAug 14 21:00
DaemonFCwho knows?Aug 14 21:00
Chips_B_Malroyyou could hang out with Andre Da CostaAug 14 21:00
*DaemonFC ports Chatzilla over to IE 9 as a COM objectAug 14 21:00
MinceRDaemonFC: really? m$ guarantees that my system will work with winblows?Aug 14 21:00
DaemonFCheheAug 14 21:00
MinceRwhere can i claim the compensation money?Aug 14 21:00
MinceRor at least the price of the license back?Aug 14 21:00
DaemonFCDon't agree to the EULAAug 14 21:01
Chips_B_MalroyCosta got his MVP award a few months backAug 14 21:01
DaemonFCmost OEMs will refund your moneyAug 14 21:01
MinceRnot reallyAug 14 21:01
DaemonFCjust mail them your install disc and COA Aug 14 21:01
MinceReven if they do, it takes a lot of workAug 14 21:01
DaemonFCbuild your own PCAug 14 21:01
MinceRand since then they've added more cop-outs so they don't have toAug 14 21:01
MinceRbuild my own laptop? from what?Aug 14 21:01
DaemonFCget one with Ubuntu and format the disk?Aug 14 21:02
Chips_B_Malroymostly they just refund at an OEM level when you become a major daily pain to them.  Cheaper to pay you at that point.Aug 14 21:02
MinceRinteresting idea of a "guarantee" thereAug 14 21:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Quem e' o toto q ainda nao percebeu q o q os ISPs querem e' poder vender o acesso `a net em 'pacotes de canais'? #netneutralityAug 14 21:03
DaemonFCMinceR, You know that Walmart did try introducing systems with Linux at a few pointsAug 14 21:03
MinceRyou also said that they didn't try too hardAug 14 21:03
MinceRjust like dellAug 14 21:03
DaemonFCthe Everex gPC with that Ubuntu variant flew off the shelves then they all came right backAug 14 21:03
Chips_B_MalroyThe problem with buying a laptop with Linux on it, is this:  I can go to Frys or another store, get a laptop on sale for less than buying a new one online, as those never go on sale.Aug 14 21:03
MinceRthen again, the recent change of behavior might have wiped those memoriesAug 14 21:03
MinceRall in the hope of getting a job at m$ again?Aug 14 21:03
DaemonFCWalmart will sell whatever sellsAug 14 21:04
MinceRlike zunes?Aug 14 21:04
MinceRlet's hear the wal-mart apologism nowAug 14 21:04
MinceRi'm sure it will be richAug 14 21:04
DaemonFCThere's still a nonfunctional display case unitAug 14 21:04
DaemonFCbut there's none in stockAug 14 21:04
Chips_B_Malroyhave to check the local walley's here and see if Zunes are still on the selfAug 14 21:04
DaemonFCand the place where they were has been taken downAug 14 21:04
DaemonFCMinceR, $200 for anything with only 16 GB of storage is way too muchAug 14 21:05
MinceRbtw, the point wasn't about getting a PC without the m$ taxAug 14 21:05
DaemonFCeven if it doesn't have a proprietary data transfer protocolAug 14 21:05
MinceRit was a "guarantee" you claimed m$ had but nobody else hadAug 14 21:05
DaemonFCand does support the formats you useAug 14 21:05
MinceRbut i can see why you don't want to talk about thatAug 14 21:05
DaemonFCI guarantee that my systems work with WindowsAug 14 21:06
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC>  as a former MS MVP, do you know if current MS MVP's get stuff like free Zunes?Aug 14 21:06
DaemonFCI didn't say Microsoft guaranteed me thatAug 14 21:06
DaemonFCit just happensAug 14 21:06
DaemonFCThurrott doesAug 14 21:06
DaemonFChe got one of every model to "review"Aug 14 21:06
MinceRso if they break, you'll pay yourself your money back?Aug 14 21:06
MinceRi can see that would work just greatAug 14 21:06
Chips_B_Malroyso didn't Willcox, xbox360's tooAug 14 21:07
DaemonFCI'd take a free Zune, there's hope that Rockbox would work on it eventuallyAug 14 21:07
DaemonFCit can sit on my bookshelf until thenAug 14 21:07
MinceRstrangeAug 14 21:07
Chips_B_Malroyhe admitted it in one commentAug 14 21:07
MinceRisn't rockbox based on gnu/linux?Aug 14 21:07
Chips_B_Malroybut not laptopsAug 14 21:07
DaemonFCI don't think soAug 14 21:07
DaemonFCthere was ipod Linux though, maybe you were thinking of thatAug 14 21:08
DaemonFCRockbox was built mostly from scratch, the most outside code they take in is codecs Aug 14 21:08
DaemonFCfrom ffmpegAug 14 21:08
DaemonFCRockbox is close to supporting the SansaAug 14 21:10
DaemonFCFuxze v2 that isAug 14 21:10
DaemonFC*FuzeAug 14 21:10
Chips_B_MalroyI have a clipAug 14 21:10
DaemonFCso when it does I may flash the thing Aug 14 21:10
Chips_B_MalroyNboxAug 14 21:11
Chips_B_Malroyfor avi, wmv, rm, some models will do flvAug 14 21:12
DaemonFCRockbox plays more formats than most PMPs are even licensed forAug 14 21:12
DaemonFCso it's almost always an upgradeAug 14 21:12
Chips_B_MalroyNbox is hardwareAug 14 21:12
Chips_B_Malroyogg audio supported, but not videoAug 14 21:13
DaemonFCseems Opera 10.7 test builds have Direct2D and WebGL turned off :PAug 14 21:13
DaemonFCback to 10.61Aug 14 21:13
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 21:13
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] New blog post: duck for your privacy http://serkokatsikian.net/?p=388Aug 14 21:13
TechrightsBotTitle: serkokatsikian.net » Duck for your privacy .::. Size~: 31.76 KBAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCTheora is crap anywayAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCVP8 is welcome relief Aug 14 21:14
Chips_B_MalroyI see IE9 is coming out, Ho humAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCVorbis came out pretty goodAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCTheora is still just so soAug 14 21:14
DaemonFCTheora is roughly on par with MPEG-4 ASP based codecs Aug 14 21:15
DaemonFCif you use version 1.1Aug 14 21:15
DaemonFCTheora 1.0 was totally unfitAug 14 21:15
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: daemon and florian are similar. They pretend to be your friend only to be seen together and then bash those who support you, e.g. jono, ubuntu, moglen, rmsAug 14 21:16
schestowitzhttp://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/#commentsAug 14 21:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 154.78 KBAug 14 21:16
schestowitzFlorian is motor mouth todayAug 14 21:16
schestowitzSpends hours commenting in TRAug 14 21:16
schestowitzOutpacing me in textAug 14 21:16
schestowitzDaemonFC is the sameAug 14 21:16
DaemonFCnot difficult Aug 14 21:17
schestowitzFilling the channel with Linux hostile stuff and venomAug 14 21:17
DaemonFCthe truthAug 14 21:17
schestowitz"I hate my governor"Aug 14 21:17
schestowitz"I am brushing my gun:"Aug 14 21:17
DaemonFClolAug 14 21:17
schestowitzposts cat photosAug 14 21:17
schestowitzDaemonFC: you have your second warningAug 14 21:17
DaemonFCcats are going to take over the worldAug 14 21:17
schestowitzYou subvert the discussion Aug 14 21:17
DaemonFCI just want to be on their good side when it happens Aug 14 21:18
schestowitzNo, China isAug 14 21:18
schestowitzAnd China will eat the small cat species tooAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCChinese people are disgustingAug 14 21:18
schestowitzYou are tooAug 14 21:18
schestowitzMore so than themAug 14 21:18
schestowitzNo go shaveAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCat least I don't eat catsAug 14 21:18
DaemonFCsavagesAug 14 21:18
schestowitzIt has been 3 hoursAug 14 21:18
Chips_B_Malroy"schestowitz> Chips_B_Malroy: daemon and florian are similar. They pretend to be your friend only to be seen together and then bash those who support you, e.g. jono, ubuntu, moglen, rms"  Well DaemonFC gets on his rants sure.  Jono is sort of a neutral person IMO, as he has a company line to follow.   I don't have any problem with him, he is pleasant enough, but seldom can anwser a question put to him.Aug 14 21:18
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DaemonFCanyone who hurts a cat should be executed Aug 14 21:19
DaemonFCthe Egyptians got that much rightAug 14 21:19
DaemonFCancient Egyptians anywayAug 14 21:19
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://www.pitbull-chat.com/showthread.php?t=538Aug 14 21:21
TechrightsBotTitle:  Top Ten Things to do with a Dead Cat: - Chit Chat .::. Size~: 42.73 KBAug 14 21:21
MinceRindeedAug 14 21:21
Chips_B_Malroysorry, I couldn't resist itAug 14 21:21
DaemonFC:(Aug 14 21:21
Chips_B_MalroyI don't even dislike cats, don't know why I did thatAug 14 21:22
MinceRChips_B_Malroy: i know better targets for those thingsAug 14 21:22
DaemonFCIE 9 is basically a trojan horse for non-standard Microsoft stuff piggybacking on top of "standards"Aug 14 21:23
schestowitzI hope Oracle sues JabbaAug 14 21:23
schestowitzFiling for executionAug 14 21:23
DaemonFCand even if it would help, nobody on XP can use itAug 14 21:23
schestowitzLarry, go get him, tigerAug 14 21:24
Chips_B_MalroyXP will take a long time to go awayAug 14 21:24
schestowitzDo lions east kittensAug 14 21:24
schestowitzOr do they sympathise?Aug 14 21:24
DaemonFCJabba is too fat even before you load JNI or "Swing"Aug 14 21:24
schestowitzThey're like cubsAug 14 21:24
Chips_B_Malroy"pirates" will not give up xp easyAug 14 21:24
DaemonFCso he's totally nonfunctional as a Java crappletAug 14 21:24
schestowitzOr lion's kittens... what are these called in English, I forgot...Aug 14 21:25
DaemonFCcubsAug 14 21:25
DaemonFCor somethingAug 14 21:25
MinceRcubs, iircAug 14 21:25
schestowitzMust be a different wordAug 14 21:25
schestowitzLion Kind might have itAug 14 21:25
schestowitz*KingAug 14 21:25
schestowitzsimbaAug 14 21:25
schestowitz> A programme worth listening to is on in 1hr at 22:15 on BBC Radio 4 butAug 14 21:26
schestowitz> you can "listen again" until 7 days from now.Aug 14 21:26
schestowitz> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tbhntAug 14 21:26
schestowitz> Aug 14 21:26
schestowitz> The episode is called "Intellectual Property" but in the Free SoftwareAug 14 21:26
TechrightsBotTitle: BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - Reality Check, Series 3, Intellectual Property .::. Size~: 22.28 KBAug 14 21:26
schestowitz> Movement we don't like that term see:Aug 14 21:26
schestowitz> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.htmlAug 14 21:26
TechrightsBotTitle: Did You Say &ldquo;Intellectual Property&rdquo;?  It's a Seductive Mirage - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) .::. Size~: 20.08 KBAug 14 21:26
schestowitz> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#IntellectualPropertyAug 14 21:26
TechrightsBotTitle: Words to Avoid (or Use with Care) Because They Are Loaded or Confusing - GNU Project- Free Software Foundation (FSF) .::. Size~: 39.19 KBAug 14 21:26
MinceRhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LionAug 14 21:26
TechrightsBotTitle: Lion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 478.5 KBAug 14 21:26
MinceRcubs.Aug 14 21:27
DaemonFCGNU/GNU!!!!!Aug 14 21:27
DaemonFCsounds like the nematode mating callAug 14 21:27
MinceRJohnny NematicAug 14 21:28
MinceRi'm sure DaemonFC hears the nematode mating call oftenAug 14 21:28
DaemonFCThey're native to MinceRstan, right?Aug 14 21:29
MinceRno, they're native to DaemonFC Aug 14 21:29
DaemonFCThe Empire of DaemonFCAug 14 21:30
DaemonFCthanks muchAug 14 21:30
DaemonFCmy Empire is big, and gigantic, and large, and huge-ishAug 14 21:30
MinceRno, not "empire of"Aug 14 21:32
MinceRjust DaemonFC Aug 14 21:32
DaemonFChmmmAug 14 21:32
MinceRand not so big, eitherAug 14 21:32
DaemonFCWikipedia's IE 9 article is spamAug 14 21:32
DaemonFCerrr, I mean highly encyclopedic informationAug 14 21:33
DaemonFCthat looks thoroughly peer reviewed Aug 14 21:33
DaemonFCand totally NPOVAug 14 21:33
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 21:33
DaemonFCas is every Wikipedia article :)Aug 14 21:33
MinceRwas it peer reviewed at a m$ internal meeting?Aug 14 21:33
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_9Aug 14 21:33
TechrightsBotTitle: Internet Explorer 9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 201.28 KBAug 14 21:33
DaemonFClook for yourselfAug 14 21:33
DaemonFCBy running separately in the background, this process can take advantage of modern multi-core machines.[22]Aug 14 21:33
DaemonFC^ Hachamovitch, Dean (2010-03-16), HTML5, Hardware Accelerated: First IE9 Platform Preview Available for DevelopersAug 14 21:33
DaemonFCit self-cites and leaves breadcrumbs back to the IE blogAug 14 21:34
DaemonFCevery reference leads back to a Microsoft websiteAug 14 21:34
DaemonFCexcept for a PR "review" here and there Aug 14 21:35
DaemonFCMinceR, Wikipedia is a spam engineAug 14 21:36
DaemonFCand source of general disinformation Aug 14 21:36
DaemonFCand propaganda Aug 14 21:37
Chips_B_Malroynot even the MS press is 'impressed' with IE9.  yawnAug 14 21:37
DaemonFCof course Rupert Murdoch criticizing Wikipedia is still amusing Aug 14 21:37
DaemonFCRupert Murdoch Journalism: "Do you love America?" "Say it, say it!" "Why can't you say you love America!?" "We'll be right back to more Fair and Balanced O'Reilly Factor after these messages"Aug 14 21:38
DaemonFCbut that doesn't excuse the crap that passes for an encyclopedia on Wikipedia Aug 14 21:39
DaemonFCif anything, Wilipedia is more dangerous than Fox Noise Aug 14 21:39
DaemonFCbecause there's just enough high quality material, or even false information that sounds "kinda true-ish" to deceive youAug 14 21:40
DaemonFCMinceR, You notice that Opera does admit their security flaws?Aug 14 21:40
*neighborlee (~quassel@c-67-168-155-207.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 21:40
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DaemonFCthat's even their stated policyAug 14 21:40
MinceRso?Aug 14 21:41
Chips_B_Malroyboth sides of the tv 'news' lie.  mostly they lie by omission of key facts.Aug 14 21:41
DaemonFCthe only time they don't go into detail about what they fixed is to give them enough time to roll out the patchAug 14 21:41
MinceRdo you think that free software browser developers hide known security flaws?Aug 14 21:41
DaemonFCMozilla does a lot of silent patchingAug 14 21:41
MinceRwhile using public bug trackers?Aug 14 21:41
MinceRinterestingAug 14 21:41
DaemonFCjust by keeping the bug report locked foreverAug 14 21:41
DaemonFCyeah, Opera assigns CVEs to their vulnerabilities Aug 14 21:42
neighborleeLOLAug 14 21:42
neighborleejust came back from north bend, and somebody had a booth type thing setup: impeach obama, and he had a hitler like moustache painted on his pictureAug 14 21:42
neighborleewhat a jokeAug 14 21:42
DaemonFCWith Mozilla, yeah the code is open, but you often have trouble seeing exactly what was patched Aug 14 21:42
DaemonFCor whyAug 14 21:42
DaemonFCor if it even mattersAug 14 21:42
neighborleewhere were these people when bush was in office <oh wait, they're prob. republicans> ;)(Aug 14 21:43
DaemonFCSeig Heil! Aug 14 21:43
Chips_B_Malroyits going to get worse as the economy gets worseAug 14 21:43
DaemonFCyeah, the Angry White Boy demographic Aug 14 21:44
neighborleeits not suppose to get worse is it /Aug 14 21:44
Chips_B_Malroypeople will stop thinking, only about their walletAug 14 21:44
DaemonFCnot excusing it, but every race has their lunatic supremacistsAug 14 21:44
DaemonFCyou only ever hear about the white ones thoughAug 14 21:44
MinceRAngry White Boy, like DaemonFC?Aug 14 21:44
MinceRlunatic supremacist, checkAug 14 21:44
neighborleeDaemonFC: these weren't white people that had the booth setup, or whatever you meantAug 14 21:44
DaemonFCThey were Mexicans?Aug 14 21:45
neighborleeI didn't get a good enough lookAug 14 21:45
Chips_B_Malroyneighborlee> its not suppose to get worse is it /"   No, its only supposed to get better, according to the gov and the press.  And for another fairy tail, windows is supposed to be more secure.Aug 14 21:45
neighborleelolAug 14 21:45
DaemonFCmore so than UNIXAug 14 21:45
neighborleewell , we can blame bush in part for this < sanity check>Aug 14 21:45
MinceRbut we have a fanboy here to explain why winblows is more secureAug 14 21:45
MinceR(it isn't, but facts never troubled him)Aug 14 21:46
neighborleeive not had any trouble so far with win7 , but then I dont go to pron sites either <sanity check>Aug 14 21:46
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> more so than UNIX"  Yeah, I read that article too, it was full of the worse writting I have ever seen.  No facts.Aug 14 21:46
DaemonFCactuallyAug 14 21:46
neighborleeif we're talking secure and a OS with most used base, you'd have to look at mac or windows ;)Aug 14 21:47
DaemonFCChrome and Opera are fairly safeAug 14 21:47
neighborleeor ahem..actually only mac ;)Aug 14 21:47
DaemonFCMozilla is secrative Aug 14 21:47
MinceRif you're talking secure and look at macos and winblows, you won't find anythinAug 14 21:47
neighborleethough I use all 3 os's Aug 14 21:47
MinceRgAug 14 21:47
DaemonFCand deceitful Aug 14 21:47
neighborleeoh ?Aug 14 21:47
neighborleewhat have I missedAug 14 21:47
MinceRin both cases, the "security" aspect covers little more than marketingAug 14 21:47
DaemonFCMozilla likes to keep a lot of their security related bugs lockedAug 14 21:48
MinceRmeanwhile, you can't even see m$'s or opera's bug trackerAug 14 21:48
neighborleeI suppose to least eyes looking at something means it might stay more secure ?Aug 14 21:48
DaemonFCMinceR, OS X is probably the least secure desktop OS out thereAug 14 21:48
neighborlee............theAug 14 21:48
DaemonFCand it would be hard to beatAug 14 21:49
MinceRDaemonFC: it's a tight competition with winblowsAug 14 21:49
Chips_B_MalroyI recently bought a laptop on ebay with some problems for cheaper than the hd in it.  Used of course, but it can with (screams) Vi$ta on it.  Looked like a nice clean install, UAC was turned on.  No apps like Office installed, almost nothing installed in fact.  So I scanned it and found 2 rootkits right off.Aug 14 21:49
MinceR223938 < neighborlee> I suppose to least eyes looking at something means it might stay more secure ?Aug 14 21:49
MinceRnope.Aug 14 21:49
Chips_B_Malroyreal secureAug 14 21:49
neighborleedoesn't it depend on the capacity of those looking ?Aug 14 21:49
Chips_B_MalroyVi$ta isAug 14 21:49
Chips_B_MalroybullAug 14 21:49
DaemonFCI don't really know which is scarier, that they're still finding critical flaws in XP after 10 yearsAug 14 21:49
DaemonFCor that most of them also apply to Windows 7Aug 14 21:50
neighborleeit doesn't matter guysAug 14 21:50
MinceRneighborlee: if people in general can't improve it, then the only ones in the general public looking at it will be largely those looking to exploit itAug 14 21:50
neighborleeand gals if anyAug 14 21:50
MinceRthey won't disclose their findingsAug 14 21:50
MinceRthey will only use them to attackAug 14 21:50
neighborleewindows STILL  maintains a huge market shareAug 14 21:50
neighborleeso go cry somewhere else ;)Aug 14 21:50
MinceRso?Aug 14 21:50
MinceRneighborlee: did you come here to gloat in lieu of ballmer?Aug 14 21:51
neighborleesure didAug 14 21:51
MinceRthen fuck offAug 14 21:51
DaemonFC]"rick5 Can anyone tell me if the mosque will have a bomb making school on the primacies, or will travel abroad be a requirement?"Aug 14 21:51
neighborleeLOLAug 14 21:51
DaemonFClolAug 14 21:51
neighborleeROFLAug 14 21:51
Chips_B_Malroy88 to 90 percent depending on those doing the poleAug 14 21:51
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: yupAug 14 21:51
DaemonFC"AntiTeabags Maybe we can build a Nazi center next to it. My bad, that would be offensive and insensitive wouldnt it"Aug 14 21:51
DaemonFCniceAug 14 21:51
neighborleehey ,,sorry if the truth STINGS a littleAug 14 21:51
MinceRif i wanted to hear the misguided ramblings of m$ fanboys, i'd go to a m$ channelAug 14 21:52
neighborleethen fine, get lost yourselfAug 14 21:52
MinceRif i wanted to hear how proud they are of the "achievements" they'll never profit from, i'd go thereAug 14 21:52
MinceRfact is, i don't give a fuck about you m$ fanboysAug 14 21:52
Chips_B_Malroythe good news is, its down from the high point of 95.3% at one time before Vista came outAug 14 21:52
MinceRand this is not a m$ fanboy channelAug 14 21:52
MinceRso gtfoAug 14 21:52
neighborleeMinceR: its mutual babyAug 14 21:52
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: I"d love to see somet stiff competition for them actuallyAug 14 21:53
MinceRneighborlee: then go to #linsux or ##microsoftAug 14 21:53
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: as much as that might surprise some here ;)Aug 14 21:53
Chips_B_MalroyConsider that MS has lost 5.3 to 7.3% of its desktop market share?Aug 14 21:53
neighborleeits regaining it FAST with win7Aug 14 21:53
neighborleeso mehAug 14 21:53
Chips_B_MalroyAndroid is that stiff competition, on some from factorsAug 14 21:53
MinceRthough i'm not sure what m$ fanboys are seeking on freenode anywayAug 14 21:53
MinceRm$ has no peer-directed projectsAug 14 21:53
neighborleeChips_B_Malroy: it  just might be yesAug 14 21:53
MinceRso they don't belong on this irc networkAug 14 21:54
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[ender2070/@ender2070] I have MCP and MCTS right now (from MS 70-620 exam). I'll have MCITP on Aug 18th when I finish the Microsoft 70-622 exam.Aug 14 21:54
neighborleeTHOUGH while my facts are correct, I dont like M$ due to its decitful policiesAug 14 21:54
MinceRneighborlee: don't you rich assholes have your own irc network?Aug 14 21:54
MinceRyou have no factsAug 14 21:54
MinceRyou have only bullshitAug 14 21:54
MinceRtired bullshitAug 14 21:54
neighborleethe only one  here acting like a fool, is you babyAug 14 21:54
MinceRwe've heard them a thousand timesAug 14 21:54
neighborleehow is that fact for you ;)Aug 14 21:54
DaemonFChttp://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/aug/14/early-social-security-filing-strains-system/?breakingnewsAug 14 21:54
TechrightsBotTitle: Early Social Security filing strains system | Chattanooga Times Free Press .::. Size~: 62.79 KBAug 14 21:54
DaemonFCJoblessness is causing people aged 62 to go ahead and file for SSI benefitsAug 14 21:55
DaemonFCeven with the 30% penalty Aug 14 21:55
Chips_B_Malroyyou may as well do itAug 14 21:55
neighborleeold news ;)Aug 14 21:55
neighborleelolAug 14 21:55
Chips_B_Malroyif your benies are running outAug 14 21:55
Chips_B_Malroymostly for men you crazy not to anywayAug 14 21:55
Chips_B_Malroybut not alwaysAug 14 21:55
neighborleeI bet those that dipped into SS fund, love those taking a CUT just to survive ;)Aug 14 21:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 14/8/2010: #GNOME Foundation's New Rules, X.Org Server 1.9 Imminent http://ur1.ca/152xb #techrightsAug 14 21:56
TechrightsBotTitle: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 1.93 KBAug 14 21:56
neighborleeoh the ironcyAug 14 21:56
neighborleeironyAug 14 21:56
DaemonFCneighborlee, My dad says he's considering it when he gets to 62Aug 14 21:56
DaemonFCI told him I would Aug 14 21:56
DaemonFC:PAug 14 21:56
Chips_B_MalroyIn Soviet Russia, men die on average before retirement age.Aug 14 21:56
neighborleeyupAug 14 21:56
DaemonFCneighborlee, Social Security is basically a liberal ponzi scamAug 14 21:57
DaemonFCit seeks to tax you your whole life and hope you die before drawing anything from itAug 14 21:57
DaemonFCor ASAP after you start Aug 14 21:57
neighborleeDaemonFC: no, the real scam is living admist a capitalistic systemAug 14 21:57
neighborleeamidstAug 14 21:57
DaemonFCwell, even with the 30% penalty for taking it 3 years too soon, you could still come out aheadAug 14 21:58
DaemonFCwhat if you waited to be 65 then died after a month of drawing benefits?Aug 14 21:58
DaemonFCthen you don't get anythingAug 14 21:58
DaemonFCneither does your familyAug 14 21:58
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 14/8/2010: !GNOME Foundation's New Rules, X.Org Server 1.9 Imminent http://ur1.ca/152xb !techrightsAug 14 21:59
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[ender2070/@ender2070] Microsoft Certs are so cheap, $60 per exam!Aug 14 21:59
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 14/8/2010: GNOME Foundations New Rules, X.Org Server 1.9 Imminent | Techrights .::. Size~: 108.12 KBAug 14 21:59
DaemonFCI have to wait until age 68 I thinkAug 14 21:59
DaemonFCmy brother wil have to live to be 70Aug 14 21:59
DaemonFCso they're basically stealing those retirement years from youAug 14 21:59
DaemonFCeven though you won't live longer Aug 14 21:59
Chips_B_Malroymale live expectancy in US is 75.6.  You now have to be 66 to get full retirement, and soon 67 for younger folks.  How many years do you have to live to catch up with those who start at 62 with 2/3's the payment?  Aug 14 22:00
Chips_B_MalroyIts in the 80'sAug 14 22:01
DaemonFCright, so I'm getting ripped off because my parents and grandparents got to put less in than I amAug 14 22:01
DaemonFCand also get to draw more out than I willAug 14 22:01
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC> so they're basically stealing those retirement years from you"  Absolutely.Aug 14 22:02
ZiomatrixChips_B_Malroy: people should just follow Japan and have older gents working in fast food and as greetings in department stores, oh wait...Aug 14 22:02
DaemonFCold people get to have "socialist" programsAug 14 22:02
DaemonFCbecause they are the ones that voteAug 14 22:02
DaemonFCno politician is worried about pissing off anyone younger than 40Aug 14 22:03
Chips_B_MalroyAnd then you listen to CNN (worse than Fox if possible) and their news reporter keeps talking that we need to cut social security as if its an entitlement.   Its not an entitlement, its what people have paid into all their lives here.Aug 14 22:03
DaemonFCI think the turnout to vote in my age group is under 40% typicallyAug 14 22:03
DaemonFCand in the 20's during a midterm electionAug 14 22:04
DaemonFCno politician is worried about pissing off someone my ageAug 14 22:04
Chips_B_MalroyBoth parties will screw the american people on social sercurity and haveAug 14 22:04
DaemonFCyou get people who are in their 50's and 60's and 70's showing up to vote with over 90% turnoutAug 14 22:04
DaemonFCand they are the biggest generations everAug 14 22:04
DaemonFCso they totally drown out anything I have to say about how things runAug 14 22:05
DaemonFC:PAug 14 22:05
Chips_B_Malroyno, illegals are the biggest generation everAug 14 22:05
DaemonFCright, but supposedly they don't voteAug 14 22:05
DaemonFCACORN tried to change thatAug 14 22:05
Chips_B_Malroyzune they willAug 14 22:05
DaemonFCbut for the most part, noAug 14 22:05
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC | neighborlee, Social Security is basically a liberal ponzi scam <-- thisis rubbish , sorry.Aug 14 22:06
FurnaceBoymahybe in the US it is.Aug 14 22:06
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_EllsworthAug 14 22:06
TechrightsBotTitle: Brad Ellsworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 70.74 KBAug 14 22:06
DaemonFCDemocratic Senate nominee up for election in Indiana this yearAug 14 22:06
DaemonFCI may vote for himAug 14 22:07
Chips_B_Malroythe only way the gov can increase its tax base (revenue) is to let illegals in.  Cause the one thing the gov cannot seem to do, is to cut spending.Aug 14 22:07
DaemonFChe's a fairly moderate Democrat Aug 14 22:07
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: oh, they can cut. just not in 'defence'.Aug 14 22:07
DaemonFCI can't bring myself to vote for the far left onesAug 14 22:07
DaemonFCbut we don't get many of those around here anywayAug 14 22:07
Chips_B_MalroyThey just need more people to taxAug 14 22:07
DaemonFCHe opposes gun control Aug 14 22:08
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 22:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mr. peudo-'FOSS' @fosspatents Muller is still avoiding my question about Microsoft campaigning. http://ur1.ca/15307 I asked a dozen timesAug 14 22:09
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 158.91 KBAug 14 22:09
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: they do this http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/aug/13/crown-jewels-britains-landscape-sold while doing this http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/aug/13/liam-fox-trident-budget-row-george-osborneAug 14 22:10
TechrightsBotTitle:  'Crown jewels' of Britain's landscape could be sold off | Environment | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 83.06 KBAug 14 22:10
TechrightsBotTitle:  Liam Fox reopens Trident budget row with George Osborne | UK news | guardian.co.uk  .::. Size~: 186.75 KBAug 14 22:10
*OsamaK (~Osama@fsf/member/osamak) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 22:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fsmag] Mixing your Debian repositories is definitely for those who like to live dangerously on the edge. Exciting but... http://fb.me/z2xGqHiiAug 14 22:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mr. pseudo-'FOSS' @fosspatents Muller is still avoiding my question about Microsoft campaigning. http://ur1.ca/15307 I asked a dozen timesAug 14 22:12
TechrightsBotTitle: Tales From the Front: in Search of APT-GET UNDO  .::. Size~: 37.76 KBAug 14 22:12
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 160.8 KBAug 14 22:12
Chips_B_MalroyRussia, male life expectacy is 59.33Aug 14 22:12
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancyAug 14 22:12
TechrightsBotTitle: List of countries by life expectancy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 194.69 KBAug 14 22:12
DaemonFCit's RussiaAug 14 22:13
DaemonFCstill shocking that Mexicans live longer than Russians thoughAug 14 22:13
Chips_B_MalroyRussian men drink themselves to death, because the old Soviet system gave them no reason to liveAug 14 22:14
DaemonFCRussian men drink themselves to death because of Russian womenAug 14 22:14
DaemonFC:DAug 14 22:14
DaemonFCWomen live longer than men in any country thoughAug 14 22:15
DaemonFCthey're built to last longer I supposeAug 14 22:15
Chips_B_MalroyIceland number 3 on the listAug 14 22:15
Chips_B_MalroyI wonder if I could get by their with only EnglishAug 14 22:16
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: likelyAug 14 22:16
DaemonFCSwaziland, average life expectancy is 39.8 years?Aug 14 22:16
DaemonFCAIDS, civil war, malaria, starvation?Aug 14 22:16
Chips_B_MalroyAnd GatesAug 14 22:16
FurnaceBoy:)Aug 14 22:16
Chips_B_Malroyhe sort of fits right in with that listAug 14 22:17
DaemonFC"As reported in the 2009 CIA World Factbook, Swaziland has the highest HIV infection rate in the world (26% of all adults; more in other reports) and also the lowest life expectancy at 32 years"Aug 14 22:18
DaemonFCouchAug 14 22:18
DaemonFCoh well, at least there's no old peopleAug 14 22:18
MinceRIn South Korea, only old people use e-mail.Aug 14 22:19
DaemonFCinject everyone with HIV at age 18 so there won't be anyone over 40Aug 14 22:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fsmag] The only thing as good as free software is free hardware (shades of RepRap). A killer combo. http://fb.me/CKGiHe5EAug 14 22:19
TechrightsBotTitle: The Made-To-Order revolution: custom flexible manufacturing is here  .::. Size~: 53.75 KBAug 14 22:19
MinceRIn Swaziland, only old people... never mind.Aug 14 22:19
DaemonFCthat could be an ideaAug 14 22:19
MinceRi have a better ideaAug 14 22:19
MinceRinject everyone with HCN at birth so there won't be anyoneAug 14 22:19
MinceR;)Aug 14 22:19
DaemonFCMinceR, Here's a theoretical....Aug 14 22:20
DaemonFCAssume for a moment that they could stop your body from aging past, say, 21Aug 14 22:20
DaemonFCright?Aug 14 22:20
DaemonFCand that all diseases were curedAug 14 22:20
DaemonFCand somehow the population was kept stableAug 14 22:21
DaemonFC(because the only thing killing anyone now is accidents)Aug 14 22:21
DaemonFC(or murder)Aug 14 22:21
Chips_B_MalroyJapan is number 1, no wonder Lumpy wanted to become Japanese.  And I thought he was only sucking up to his bosses.Aug 14 22:22
DaemonFC1. Do you think people would become paranoid of going outside for fear that they would die in an accident or murder?Aug 14 22:22
DaemonFC2. Do you think the human mind would still become "old" even though the brain was kept from aging?Aug 14 22:22
DaemonFClike by old, I mean, the mentality of an old personAug 14 22:22
MinceRdunnoAug 14 22:23
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @jayrosen_nyu: Amusing data point: http://jr.ly/9gj9 The cohort with the most confidence in newspapers never reads them: 18 to 29s.Aug 14 22:23
TechrightsBotTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 301 Apple .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 14 22:23
MinceRit would change the human mindset a lot over time, imoAug 14 22:23
DaemonFCDo you think the inability to age and die would eventually cause a psychotic breakdown?Aug 14 22:23
DaemonFCThe mind probably couldn't cope with living more than a couple hundred years at most I would thinkAug 14 22:24
MinceRdepends on whoseAug 14 22:24
MinceRi think people would eventually learn how to cope with itAug 14 22:24
MinceRmaybe there would be more suicides in the first generationsAug 14 22:24
DaemonFCWould your brain eventually run out of storage space?Aug 14 22:24
DaemonFCWHat would happen?Aug 14 22:24
Chips_B_Malroythe old saying is true.  live is what you make out of it, learn to enjoy it.Aug 14 22:24
MinceRyou'd forget old memoriesAug 14 22:25
Chips_B_Malroy*lifeAug 14 22:25
MinceRits storage space is definitely limitedAug 14 22:25
schestowitz[22:19] <MinceR> In South Korea, only old people use e-mail.Aug 14 22:25
DaemonFCso you believe that your brain would start deleting old memories to make way for new onesAug 14 22:25
schestowitzI'm quitting E-mail tooAug 14 22:25
MinceRnopeAug 14 22:25
DaemonFCthat would suckAug 14 22:25
MinceRit wouldn't delete memoriesAug 14 22:25
MinceRold memories would fade over timeAug 14 22:25
MinceRthis would probably be accelerated by the accumulation of new memoriesAug 14 22:26
schestowitzMinceR: what's the source of the meme?Aug 14 22:26
DaemonFCeventually you wouldn't remember your parents even, right?Aug 14 22:26
*sebsebseb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)Aug 14 22:26
MinceRschestowitz: /.Aug 14 22:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: memory has dependenciesAug 14 22:26
schestowitzYou can't just delete old stuffAug 14 22:26
MinceRschestowitz: there was an article on how young people in south korea don't use emailAug 14 22:26
schestowitz"garbage collection" on the other handAug 14 22:27
schestowitzMinceR: I know the Russian reversal memeAug 14 22:27
DaemonFCwell, what if your brain's rm function has a --force argument Aug 14 22:27
schestowitzMinceR: so that's the original source?Aug 14 22:27
DaemonFCor maybe it has a package manager that takes out half the rest of the system to clobber one thing Aug 14 22:27
MinceRschestowitz: this one is derived from the russian reversal memeAug 14 22:27
MinceRDaemonFC: the brain is not a computerAug 14 22:27
schestowitzNopeAug 14 22:27
schestowitzIt's separateAug 14 22:27
schestowitzBut both are used in /, a lotAug 14 22:28
DaemonFCso you can't make new memories at some pointAug 14 22:28
schestowitzThe "old people in Korea" meme seemed like /. onlyAug 14 22:28
DaemonFCand you become like that guy in Memento?Aug 14 22:28
MinceRDaemonFC: unlikelyAug 14 22:28
schestowitz Wikipedia calls it Slashdot SubcultureAug 14 22:28
schestowitzLike 4chanAug 14 22:28
schestowitz /. shrinks a lotAug 14 22:28
schestowitzMany memes come from 4chanAug 14 22:28
DaemonFCwait a second, let's go backAug 14 22:28
MinceRafaik unused routes in neural networks weaken, used ones are strengthenedAug 14 22:28
DaemonFCyour brain has limited storage Aug 14 22:28
DaemonFCit can't delete anythingAug 14 22:28
DaemonFCbut it has to store more at some point Aug 14 22:29
DaemonFCcause you're like 300 years old now and trapped ina body which is only "21"Aug 14 22:29
DaemonFCso what does it do?Aug 14 22:29
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DaemonFCif it expands it will compress against your skullAug 14 22:29
MinceRlolAug 14 22:30
neighborleeslightly too warm, powering down ttyl ;0-0Aug 14 22:30
schestowitzMinceR: http://www.youtube.com/show/knowyourmeme?pl=FFDFD4AB75A4BB46Aug 14 22:30
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Know Your Meme .::. Size~: 45.41 KBAug 14 22:30
schestowitzGood channelAug 14 22:30
*neighborlee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Aug 14 22:30
DaemonFCand you'll have an aneurysm Aug 14 22:30
MinceRyou really should read up on how neural networks workAug 14 22:30
DaemonFCI don't think the human mind could cope with living forever Aug 14 22:31
DaemonFCI think it would break down after 200-300 years or soAug 14 22:31
DaemonFCone way or another Aug 14 22:31
FurnaceBoyall of us does.Aug 14 22:32
DaemonFCMinceR, ANDROID BODIES! artificial neural network!Aug 14 22:32
DaemonFC:DAug 14 22:32
FurnaceBoynature doesn't waste anything.Aug 14 22:32
DaemonFCjust download you into an android Aug 14 22:32
FurnaceBoythat's why we wear out.Aug 14 22:32
DaemonFCor into an artificial realityAug 14 22:32
MinceRno, we wear out due to minor flawsAug 14 22:33
MinceRsuch as telomeresAug 14 22:33
FurnaceBoyMinceR: same thingAug 14 22:33
MinceRliving matter renews itself, and can thus in theory live foreverAug 14 22:33
MinceRthere is a kind of living tissue that's immortalAug 14 22:33
FurnaceBoyMinceR: well, there's the problem of evolution. if it doesn't help perpetuate our genes, we won't.Aug 14 22:33
MinceRthere is an animal that can rejuvenate itself, iircAug 14 22:33
FurnaceBoyright, but not us.Aug 14 22:34
MinceRFurnaceBoy: that's what genetic manipulation comes in :>Aug 14 22:34
FurnaceBoyMinceR: hmmmmmAug 14 22:34
MinceRs/comes in/is for/Aug 14 22:34
FurnaceBoyMinceR: this seems like a long row to hoe.Aug 14 22:34
FurnaceBoyMinceR: why not ust improve the quality of the lifespan we have?Aug 14 22:34
FurnaceBoythat seems like a hard enough problemAug 14 22:34
MinceRwhy not do both?Aug 14 22:34
FurnaceBoycuz we never did much about the first part :)Aug 14 22:34
FurnaceBoyat least in the New WorldAug 14 22:35
FurnaceBoyall is pointless if we can't do thatAug 14 22:35
MinceRthat's because people do things wrongAug 14 22:35
FurnaceBoyi don't want 300 years under the status quo.Aug 14 22:35
FurnaceBoyin fact, i don't want under this status quo at all.Aug 14 22:35
MinceRtoo much emphasis on ruling over others, making them miserable and on destructionAug 14 22:35
FurnaceBoyright, or what Hawking said.Aug 14 22:36
MinceRthis status quo couldn't even exist if people were immortalAug 14 22:36
FurnaceBoyparaphrased, "we're a vicious piece of shit organism."Aug 14 22:36
MinceRindeedAug 14 22:36
MinceRand that's the first thing that needs to be changedAug 14 22:36
MinceRwithout that, the quality of life canAug 14 22:36
FurnaceBoyit got us this far, that's the problem.Aug 14 22:36
MinceRwithout that, the quality of life can't be improvedAug 14 22:36
FurnaceBoyit just doesn't scale.Aug 14 22:36
*FurnaceBoy is doubtful genetic tampering is gonna neatly fix this one.Aug 14 22:37
MinceRwell, not that oneAug 14 22:37
FurnaceBoywhat thenAug 14 22:37
FurnaceBoytell people to be nice? :)Aug 14 22:37
MinceRnopeAug 14 22:37
FurnaceBoyshoot them if they don't?Aug 14 22:38
MinceRfirst of all, stop people teaching their young to be assholesAug 14 22:38
FurnaceBoya lot of things have been triedAug 14 22:38
FurnaceBoyMinceR: turn off the tvAug 14 22:38
MinceRkill the ones that can't be fixedAug 14 22:38
MinceRor separate themAug 14 22:38
MinceRend the cult of the Almighty Money and whatever comes with itAug 14 22:38
FurnaceBoyMinceR: omg that sounds like obama socialism!Aug 14 22:38
MinceRlolAug 14 22:38
MinceRit isn'tAug 14 22:38
FurnaceBoyMinceR: all very loftyAug 14 22:38
MinceRit isAug 14 22:38
MinceRit has to beAug 14 22:38
FurnaceBoyMinceR: so, how?Aug 14 22:38
MinceRi'd start on a lower scaleAug 14 22:39
MinceRbuild a new communityAug 14 22:39
FurnaceBoyisrael!Aug 14 22:39
FurnaceBoyit'll be great!Aug 14 22:39
MinceRafter all, the free software community exists and works, doesn't it?Aug 14 22:39
MinceRisrael is very far from thisAug 14 22:39
FurnaceBoylol, no shit.Aug 14 22:39
MinceRreligion doesn't helpAug 14 22:39
FurnaceBoycertainly an understatement there :)Aug 14 22:40
MinceR:>Aug 14 22:40
schestowitzneighborlee would beg to differAug 14 22:49
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: capitalism for the czars (Trump et al), communism for the restAug 14 22:50
FurnaceBoyheadlines wouldn'tAug 14 22:50
MinceRwho cares about what that creationist idiot thinks?Aug 14 22:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: yes that explains a lotAug 14 22:50
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://www.techflash.com/seattle/2010/07/microsofts_private_party_for_11000.html  "Assuming he's not ultimately forced out, Ballmer said as recently as 2008 that he's planning to stick around until his last kid goes to college, around 2018."  The question is, will Ballmer be able to destroy MS in that time period?Aug 14 22:50
TechrightsBotTitle: At gigantic pep rally, Microsoft marks 30 years of Steve Ballmer .::. Size~: 55.95 KBAug 14 22:50
schestowitzFaith in Windows goes along with deitiesAug 14 22:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: oh gawd, not another one?!Aug 14 22:50
MinceRyes, but the first of those deities is MoneyAug 14 22:50
FurnaceBoyMinceR: this is cultural, not biologicalAug 14 22:51
*schestowitz surprised is permitted to have kidsAug 14 22:51
*schestowitz surprised Ballmer is permitted to have kidsAug 14 22:51
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: schmucks like him breed all overAug 14 22:51
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it's part of why the world sucksAug 14 22:51
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: he's up there, being rich,Aug 14 22:52
*schestowitz wonders if Ballmer hurls the kid at the chair or the other way aroundAug 14 22:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: and a pile of breeders are down here wishing they had his moneyAug 14 22:52
schestowitzBallmer loves to be vchairAug 14 22:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: all we know is his kids aren't allowed to use Apple -- or presumably they pay for their own college, or soemthing.Aug 14 22:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Ballmer is just another bourgeois useless fat c*ntAug 14 22:52
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: best use for him is foodAug 14 22:52
MinceRfor pigs?Aug 14 22:52
FurnaceBoyMinceR: sure, or wildlife preserves maybeAug 14 22:53
schestowitzMinceR: beat me to itAug 14 22:53
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: these men are all banalAug 14 22:53
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: they are very very small and uselessAug 14 22:53
schestowitzWith foot and mouth disease we need to be selectiveAug 14 22:53
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: look for teh popular idols, and find the pig foodAug 14 22:54
Chips_B_Malroyyour talking about the next ambassator to some poor country.  With 16 billion in dollars, you know some fool running for office, will bring this idea of Ballmer the statesman back.  So he can do for the USA what he did to MS.Aug 14 22:54
MinceRi'm not sure if it's animal cruelty to feed pigs with ballmer, thoughAug 14 22:54
schestowitzMinceR: it's like rabbiesAug 14 22:54
FurnaceBoyMinceR: let's find outAug 14 22:54
schestowitzFoaming at the mouthAug 14 22:54
MinceRhow can you detect if it causes pigs discomfort?Aug 14 22:54
schestowitzThe last time I saw this pig jumping on stage shouting "I love this company! OOOOOOOOOOIIINK!"Aug 14 22:55
MinceRlolAug 14 22:55
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: see if they have sweaty armpitsAug 14 22:55
FurnaceBoyoopsAug 14 22:55
FurnaceBoythat was for the pig-stress-testAug 14 22:55
schestowitzDo pigs sweatAug 14 22:55
schestowitzI know they get sunburnsAug 14 22:55
schestowitzUnique for animalsAug 14 22:55
schestowitzInferior tooAug 14 22:55
schestowitzMaybe they sweat with hormonal stuff out of their armpits tooAug 14 22:56
Chips_B_Malroywhich will leave first?  Jobs or Ballmer?Aug 14 22:56
schestowitz"I'd have two pork chops and two porky armpits, maam"Aug 14 22:56
schestowitzThey serve it fresh.. with the sweat still onAug 14 22:56
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I believe they dont.Aug 14 22:57
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: but they're too intelligent to use windows, this is knownAug 14 22:57
schestowitzThey can reverse engineer the sweatAug 14 22:57
schestowitzBuy 'pig-sweat' sprayAug 14 22:57
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: if Jobs leaves first, it will be another free game for MSAug 14 22:57
schestowitzUse it on your g/fAug 14 22:57
schestowitzewww......Aug 14 22:57
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: ,,,,Aug 14 22:57
FurnaceBoyall this talk about Steve Banal is depressing.Aug 14 22:58
schestowitzWell...Aug 14 22:58
schestowitzMicrosft is depressedAug 14 22:58
schestowitzNo news about it todayAug 14 22:58
MinceRat least it's ontopic and factualAug 14 22:58
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy has already identified it allAug 14 22:58
schestowitzI might take a look tomorrow as wellAug 14 22:58
Chips_B_MalroyFurnaceBoy> Chips_B_Malroy: if Jobs leaves first, it will be another free game for MS"  I don't hold with the Jobs is a God theory.  Most of the work is done by underlings.  Jobs departing, is not that critical for Apple in the long term.Aug 14 22:58
schestowitzIt's all Java Java Java Java Java Java Java Java Java ...Aug 14 22:58
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 22:59
MinceRjobs will probably break crApple anywayAug 14 22:59
sebsebseb Aug 14 22:59
MinceRi can see two reasons for thisAug 14 22:59
MinceRsebsebseb: Aug 14 22:59
schestowitzApple needs Jobs as clergyAug 14 22:59
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: you don't have to believe he's a god Aug 14 22:59
MinceR1) they won't have a direction without their micromanaging dictatorAug 14 22:59
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: if he leaves, it will be something MS will spin to their advantage for a whileAug 14 22:59
MinceRthey won't know what to doAug 14 22:59
schestowitzTurtles live a long timeAug 14 22:59
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: I am not talking about Apple losing any focus or whatever, i don't careAug 14 22:59
MinceR2) they believe they depend on jobs, so they do -- their morale will breakAug 14 22:59
FurnaceBoyI do care that Microsoft turns to dust, as a matter of simple justice and civilised necessity.Aug 14 23:00
MinceRwe can't trust crApple to beat m$ anywayAug 14 23:00
Chips_B_Malroyyes, MS spins (lies) about everythingAug 14 23:00
FurnaceBoyApple, who cares.Aug 14 23:00
schestowitzMinceR: they can dress John from the FSF like JobsAug 14 23:00
MinceRthey're not good enough at m$'s and crApple's common gameAug 14 23:00
schestowitzDo a 180Aug 14 23:00
MinceRschestowitz: what John?Aug 14 23:00
schestowitzSulllivanAug 14 23:00
schestowitzThe one who stood with the sign upAug 14 23:00
schestowitzAbout hypePadAug 14 23:00
Chips_B_MalroyNot sure I would want Apple to beat MS.  The cost of an Mac so I could install GNU/Linux might triple if Mac won.Aug 14 23:01
MinceRhow would they win Sullivan for themselves?Aug 14 23:01
Chips_B_MalroyMac will always be a niche, until Jobs leaves, and the direction then could possibly change and the price come down to compete.Aug 14 23:02
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: they won't 'win' unless microsoft actually collapsed, and nobody really knows what happens then.Aug 14 23:02
MinceRFurnaceBoy: the IT industry rises from the ashes?Aug 14 23:02
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: Apple neither wants nor could handle a, say, 80% shareAug 14 23:02
Chips_B_MalroytrueAug 14 23:02
MinceRthere was an article about crApple being unable to handle a share over 5% or soAug 14 23:02
MinceR(15%?)Aug 14 23:02
FurnaceBoyMinceR: well yes it would be good, but i mean details like, would ANYBODY still selll / support windows. almost certainly yes.Aug 14 23:03
Chips_B_MalroyJobs dosen't want itAug 14 23:03
MinceRand how they crashed several times alreadyAug 14 23:03
FurnaceBoyMinceR: so there's probably no scenario that suddenly kills windowsAug 14 23:03
Chips_B_Malroybut Apple could handle 30% easyAug 14 23:03
MinceRFurnaceBoy: it would still kill winblows quicklyAug 14 23:03
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: sure, that would be quite healthy.Aug 14 23:03
Chips_B_Malroyafter all, does Aug 14 23:03
MinceRwith nobody to push it like m$ used toAug 14 23:03
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: at that level, there's a lot of pressure on Apple pricingAug 14 23:03
Chips_B_Malroyapple really make any hardware?Aug 14 23:03
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: no more than anyone else does.Aug 14 23:04
Chips_B_Malroyor does apple just engineer it and order it from the same Chinese companies as other OEM's do?Aug 14 23:04
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: yesAug 14 23:04
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: it's not cost effective to manufacture anything in the USA.Aug 14 23:04
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: though in the 90s it still wasAug 14 23:04
Chips_B_Malroyso, in effect, Apple could take over the market if the price came down Aug 14 23:04
Chips_B_Malroyor at least take more share, I should sayAug 14 23:05
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: well,  it wouldn't work outAug 14 23:05
Chips_B_Malroyits not a problem making the hardwareAug 14 23:05
Chips_B_Malroyas apple does not make itAug 14 23:05
FurnaceBoyit would be chaos for a while. but somebody would buy MS assets and leverage the ghettoAug 14 23:05
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: linux is better placed than OS X for whitebox crapAug 14 23:06
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, Apple doesn't engineer much in the way of hardware Aug 14 23:06
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy:  Apple's never going thereAug 14 23:06
DaemonFCat a hardware level, it's just a PCAug 14 23:06
Chips_B_MalroyI think 30% would be possible but only for the short term for AppleAug 14 23:06
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's not true, really.Aug 14 23:06
DaemonFCand the ipod is just a plastic case, an MPEG decoder chip, and some storageAug 14 23:06
DaemonFCsame as any other PMPAug 14 23:06
Chips_B_Malroythe efi chip is only real differenceAug 14 23:06
Chips_B_Malroyfor macsAug 14 23:06
DaemonFCEFI is PC hardwareAug 14 23:06
Chips_B_MalroyyesAug 14 23:06
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you don't mean iPod touch, i presume...Aug 14 23:07
DaemonFCthe main difference is that the Mac EFI has some extra garbage that OS X looks forAug 14 23:07
DaemonFCor OS X refuses to bootAug 14 23:07
DaemonFCpurely software differenceAug 14 23:07
DaemonFCit's a lot like Windows System Locked Preinstallation activationAug 14 23:07
Chips_B_MalroyI am only pointing out that 1. its only greed that prevents apple (jobs) from increasing market share of Macs now  2.  it will be Android and Linux that prevents it in the futureAug 14 23:08
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: right, but remembering that Apple never wants even half of the marketAug 14 23:08
MinceRi doubt that crApple even knows how to play the non-gimmick-based PC gameAug 14 23:08
Chips_B_Malroy3. when Jobs is gone, his sucessor might want to increase the market share with price reductionsAug 14 23:08
DaemonFCOS X is probably the Apple product that Apple put the most work of their own intoAug 14 23:08
DaemonFCand even at that, it's probably less than 20% original Apple codeAug 14 23:08
MinceRthey'd lose their directionAug 14 23:08
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: sure, but that will bury themAug 14 23:08
MinceRbut it would be a fun train wreck to watchAug 14 23:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: if you disregard all apps, etcAug 14 23:09
schestowitz[23:02] <MinceR> there was an article about crApple being unable to handle a share over 5% or soAug 14 23:09
Chips_B_Malroy4. in the long run, Mac is history anyway.  Just like MSAug 14 23:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the drivers are all apple'sAug 14 23:09
DaemonFCOS X is BSD + proprietary crap for DumiesAug 14 23:09
schestowitzOr even reach itAug 14 23:09
schestowitzPeople buy a computer from FoxconnAug 14 23:09
DaemonFC*Dummies Aug 14 23:09
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: well they're over that nowAug 14 23:09
schestowitzNot some hipsters who slap a logo on itAug 14 23:09
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: source?Aug 14 23:09
schestowitzNetApps is Apple-fundedAug 14 23:10
MinceRi doubt all the drivers are from crAppleAug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: haven't they been like 10% for some time?Aug 14 23:10
MinceRor even mostAug 14 23:10
schestowitzAnd most sources are US-orientedAug 14 23:10
schestowitzApple is US basedAug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyMinceR: why not>Aug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyMinceR: 100% integration is their value add.Aug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyMinceR: nobody else can really do it for themAug 14 23:10
schestowitzHype valueAug 14 23:10
Chips_B_MalroyApple dosen't need to write more drivers for OS X to increase market share.  Nor does it need different kinds of computers.  It only needs a lower price.Aug 14 23:10
schestowitz100% integrationAug 14 23:10
MinceRthe GPU drivers certainly aren't from crApple since the GPU designers wouldn't let crApple look at their secret informationAug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: can't happenAug 14 23:10
schestowitzReminds me of "100% pure organge juice"Aug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyMinceR: they doAug 14 23:10
schestowitz"100% natural"Aug 14 23:10
MinceRFurnaceBoy: integration has nothing to do with driversAug 14 23:10
FurnaceBoyMinceR: hm>Aug 14 23:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: what do you mean?Aug 14 23:11
schestowitzNatural concenrated substance+natural waterAug 14 23:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: it has to do with software integration.Aug 14 23:11
MinceRit's just window dressing + locking hw and sw togetherAug 14 23:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: it's one warrantied bundle. Same as Sun.Aug 14 23:11
MinceRif they can use a driver they ripped off along with Mach or FreeBSD, it does the jobAug 14 23:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: they take responsibility for it in a way Microsoft does not.Aug 14 23:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: sure, but it has to do the job.Aug 14 23:11
MinceRthey do?Aug 14 23:11
MinceRthat's not the story i've heardAug 14 23:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: yes, because any issue impacts *their* brand.Aug 14 23:12
MinceRFurnaceBoy: whatever the Mach and FreeBSD developers can come up with on a weekend will function better than what crApple can hack together any dayAug 14 23:12
FurnaceBoywell, um, ok.Aug 14 23:12
Chips_B_MalroyFurnaceBoy> Chips_B_Malroy: can't happen"  Agreed partly, but only because Jobs is still there.  his thinking is stuck in the greed mode.  But Ipad is cheaper.  And you can bet its not the last type of ARM computer at a cheaper price that Apple is coming out with.  Once Jobs leaves, it could go either way.Aug 14 23:12
MinceRthere's a reason crApple stole all those OS internalsAug 14 23:12
MinceRthe reason is that they can't code their way out of a wet paper bagAug 14 23:12
MinceRthey realized they canAug 14 23:12
MinceRthey realized they canAug 14 23:12
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: if they try to go whitebox,it will all fall apart.Aug 14 23:12
MinceRthey realized they can't even implement proper multitaskingAug 14 23:13
schestowitzUser can't priactice itAug 14 23:13
FurnaceBoyMinceR: yes and no. Looking at wht Jobs did at NeXT, it's fair to say his O/S strategy at Apple had he remained would have been to go with UNIXAug 14 23:13
schestowitzApple's customersAug 14 23:13
schestowitzExcept FurnaceBoy :-)Aug 14 23:13
Chips_B_MalroyApple does not need to go whitebox, cause they do not make their own computer hardware.Aug 14 23:13
MinceRFurnaceBoy: what kept him from doing that, then?Aug 14 23:13
FurnaceBoyMinceR: he was kicked out.Aug 14 23:13
MinceRthough afaict next too is full of weird shitAug 14 23:14
Chips_B_MalroyI am only speculating on what Apple will doAug 14 23:14
MinceRFurnaceBoy: he's boss at crAppleAug 14 23:14
FurnaceBoyMinceR: NEXTSTEP is the weird shit under OS X.Aug 14 23:14
MinceRso why didn't crApple do what he wanted?Aug 14 23:14
FurnaceBoyMinceR: eh?Aug 14 23:14
MinceRi knoeAug 14 23:14
MinceRwAug 14 23:14
FurnaceBoyMinceR: first thing Jobs did on his return was adopt UNIX.Aug 14 23:14
MinceRFurnaceBoy: it isn't really unixy, it never wasAug 14 23:14
schestowitzMinceR: you mispelled posAug 14 23:14
FurnaceBoyMinceR: well, you can't fault its multitasking, anyway.Aug 14 23:14
schestowitzI misspelled  misspelled :-)Aug 14 23:14
Chips_B_Malroyyou mean he stole BSDAug 14 23:14
MinceRFurnaceBoy: only because not crApple droids did itAug 14 23:14
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: he licensed CMU MachAug 14 23:14
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: stole?Aug 14 23:14
Chips_B_MalroyDarwinAug 14 23:14
schestowitzThe heretic. Cut the arm off :-)Aug 14 23:15
MinceRthe "multitasking" they did at crApple suckedAug 14 23:15
Chips_B_Malroyok, he used itAug 14 23:15
schestowitzCopies, not stolenAug 14 23:15
MinceR(MultiFinder)Aug 14 23:15
schestowitzCopiers of Silicon ValleyAug 14 23:15
FurnaceBoyMinceR: that's long before the period we are talking about.Aug 14 23:15
MinceRcooperative multitasking, no memory protection, horrible hack on the GUI levelAug 14 23:15
FurnaceBoyMinceR: what I said was, if Jobs had remained at apple, he would likely have pursued the NEXTSTEP path there.Aug 14 23:15
MinceRFurnaceBoy: that's what they gave up when they decided to rip off free software projects instead.Aug 14 23:15
FurnaceBoyMinceR: 'rip off'?Aug 14 23:15
schestowitzOS 9 was a wreckAug 14 23:15
MinceRthough the horrible hack on the GUI level remainedAug 14 23:15
schestowitzI tried it for a year at workAug 14 23:16
schestowitzIt made Mandrake look goodAug 14 23:16
MinceRFurnaceBoy: well, those developers got nothing back except for sw patent FUDAug 14 23:16
Chips_B_MalroycopelandAug 14 23:16
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it was very good in productionAug 14 23:16
MinceRand similar attacksAug 14 23:16
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the initial versions of OS X were technically superior but less productive.Aug 14 23:16
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: it was like a toaster that freezesAug 14 23:16
schestowitznetscape would crash the OS overAug 14 23:16
schestowitzNeeded to hit resetAug 14 23:16
schestowitzWhat a toyAug 14 23:16
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: believe me, we wanted UNIX on Macs in the 80s.Aug 14 23:16
schestowitzIt's like Playmobil Aug 14 23:17
MinceRmacintoy.Aug 14 23:17
MinceRFurnaceBoy: believe me, we didn't want macs in the 80sAug 14 23:17
MinceR:>Aug 14 23:17
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Mac users know exactly what motivated Linus ;-)Aug 14 23:17
schestowitzI just wanted to reas research paper on the thingAug 14 23:17
schestowitz100 watts for a stinking book readerAug 14 23:17
MinceRjust one more incompatible home computer, except it was overpriced and it insulted the intelligence of the userAug 14 23:17
MinceRplus, even the Sinclair QL was technically superiorAug 14 23:18
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: Sun SolarisAug 14 23:18
FurnaceBoyluckily Windows won, then.Aug 14 23:18
MinceRyou misspelled SlowLarry's ;)Aug 14 23:18
schestowitzSame with Ian MurdochAug 14 23:18
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: what about itAug 14 23:18
MinceRFurnaceBoy: the game is not overAug 14 23:18
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: they wanted cheap sun boxAug 14 23:18
schestowitzcommodityAug 14 23:18
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: who did?Aug 14 23:18
schestowitzWord up!Aug 14 23:18
DaemonFCWhat is Murdoch up to these days?Aug 14 23:18
DaemonFCOpensSolaris?Aug 14 23:19
DaemonFCheheAug 14 23:19
schestowitzHe's goneAug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: oh, right. yes costly proprietary unix motivated Linus.Aug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I felt that same.Aug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoythe*Aug 14 23:19
Chips_B_MalroyFurnaceBoy> luckily Windows won, then."  No IBM won then, with dos on it.  Mac's cost even more back thenAug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: NeXT, SPARCstation was way out of reach.Aug 14 23:19
MinceRsimilarly, nonfree unix motivated RMS :>Aug 14 23:19
schestowitzRMS was motivated by XeroxAug 14 23:19
MinceRand broken printersAug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: I mean, now. Windows won.Aug 14 23:19
schestowitzTheir forkwitsAug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: so we didn't end up with an inferior stupid UNIX system like OS XAug 14 23:19
DaemonFChttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5910900226352217932#Aug 14 23:19
TechrightsBotTitle: OpenSolaris .::. Size~: 35.47 KBAug 14 23:19
Chips_B_Malroywindows is losing gradually nowAug 14 23:19
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: which would have suckedAug 14 23:19
Chips_B_Malroyit would have been worse if Mac had wonAug 14 23:20
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: luckily we have a *compatible* *standard* *innovative* thing called Windows Aug 14 23:20
schestowitzDaemonFC: not Project Illuminati [sic]Aug 14 23:20
FurnaceBoyChips_B_Malroy: except, of course, they weren't in the 'world domination' market. who'd want that? it's insaneAug 14 23:20
Chips_B_Malroyworse from a price point that isAug 14 23:20
MinceRfunny, but it was at least more compatible and standard than macosAug 14 23:20
FurnaceBoyMinceR: the old MacOS, you meanAug 14 23:21
MinceRyesAug 14 23:21
FurnaceBoyMinceR: I'm comparing to OS XAug 14 23:21
MinceRosx is only compatible and standard as far as stolen code goesAug 14 23:21
FurnaceBoy'stolen'?Aug 14 23:21
MinceRthe crapfest on top of it is notAug 14 23:21
FurnaceBoydo you have cites for that?Aug 14 23:21
MinceRi thought it was well knownAug 14 23:21
cubevectorBSD license, you can see the problemAug 14 23:21
FurnaceBoyright, bit of a stretch to say using BSD code is stealingAug 14 23:22
FurnaceBoyi am pretty sure the licensors would disagree vehementlyAug 14 23:22
MinceRcrApple takes code from the free software community (Mach, FreeBSD, KDE) and mashes up something horrible, then proceeds to 1) profit from it and 2) attack the free software communityAug 14 23:22
FurnaceBoydoes that make it stealing?Aug 14 23:22
MinceRFurnaceBoy: even if said licensors were sued for patent infringement?Aug 14 23:22
MinceReven if the OpenSSH creators were already heard complaining that they get nothing from the companies that sell products, profiting off their work?Aug 14 23:23
MinceRjust because running away with the code and contributing nothing back is legal, doesn't mean it's the Right Thing to doAug 14 23:23
*FurnaceBoy arranged a pretty big donation to Theo for opensshAug 14 23:23
Chips_B_MalroyThe Mac Plus was clearly a superior machine to IBM compatiables running Dos, back in its day.  I went with the IBM, cause of price, and lots of software for it.  Greed is what killed the Mac almost off.  And Apple is still the same greedy company.  Aug 14 23:23
MinceRFurnaceBoy: do you work for crApple?Aug 14 23:23
MinceRChips_B_Malroy: was it?Aug 14 23:24
FurnaceBoyMinceR: no, but if i did, i'd have done the same, and it'd have been bigger :)Aug 14 23:24
MinceRFurnaceBoy: so it's irrelevantAug 14 23:24
cubevectorIBM 701 ftw :)Aug 14 23:24
MinceRcrApple not only doesn't contribute to free software, they attack itAug 14 23:24
Chips_B_MalroyThe only difference now is, the windows malware problem.  For many people who do not know linux here, they buy a macAug 14 23:24
FurnaceBoyMinceR: openssh is a pretty small part of the system. any other examples? (and "not donating" isn't stealing)Aug 14 23:24
MinceRthey also attack the principles it relies onAug 14 23:24
MinceRif it were up to jobs, there would be no free software anymoreAug 14 23:24
MinceRyou might have also read what wozniak had to say about free softwareAug 14 23:24
FurnaceBoyprobably. i don't like his lack of open-ness.Aug 14 23:24
cubevectorJobs, Ellison, Gates, they are all badAug 14 23:25
FurnaceBoycubevector: quiteAug 14 23:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] Going to watch Live on Mars - BBC did a great job on that show. Love John Simm and Philip Glenister.Aug 14 23:25
MinceRFurnaceBoy: not donating, not releasing code, and attacking the community is stealingAug 14 23:25
FurnaceBoybad, bad, menAug 14 23:25
FurnaceBoyMinceR: I dunno, i'd call it 'attacking the community'.Aug 14 23:25
Chips_B_MalroyMinceR> Chips_B_Malroy: was it?"  The computer itself, thats debateable.  The graphical OS, most people would say yes.Aug 14 23:25
FurnaceBoyMinceR: stealing is problematic given the , eh, licensesAug 14 23:25
MinceRyou probably remember what crApple did to freetypeAug 14 23:25
MinceRChips_B_Malroy: the OS certainly notAug 14 23:25
MinceRChips_B_Malroy: it was even more retarded than it is nowAug 14 23:26
MinceRor than macos 9Aug 14 23:26
Chips_B_MalroyI ran Dos back in those days.  But I could see why people liked the Macs, especially newbiesAug 14 23:26
MinceRFurnaceBoy: do you believe that BSDL-ed code is a gift with a "sell this and attack me if you want to" note attached?Aug 14 23:26
MinceRm$ and crApple seem to believe thatAug 14 23:27
MinceRi don'tAug 14 23:27
FurnaceBoyMinceR: of course not. i already said i don't approve of his posture at all.Aug 14 23:27
FurnaceBoythis conversation is making me sound like yuhongAug 14 23:27
FurnaceBoyi'm not sure theres much point in itAug 14 23:27
MinceRi think the authors of Mach, FreeBSD and KDE deserve more respect from that asshole jobs than what they gotAug 14 23:27
cubevectorhehAug 14 23:27
cubevector"I wouldn't got that far" Aug 14 23:27
cubevector:-PAug 14 23:28
cubevectorgoAug 14 23:28
Chips_B_Malroydoes apple own Darwin?Aug 14 23:28
FurnaceBoyMinceR: the authors of Mach got plenty in the NeXT years. it was their posterchild for technology transfer.Aug 14 23:28
MinceRthey probably own parts of itAug 14 23:28
FurnaceBoyMinceR: Jobs has only got assholierAug 14 23:28
MinceRthe nails and glue that holds the two kernels togetherAug 14 23:28
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IllumosAug 14 23:28
TechrightsBotTitle: Illumos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 47.34 KBAug 14 23:28
MinceRoh, and duct tapeAug 14 23:28
FurnaceBoythey probably do, and you can be sure it is licsned.Aug 14 23:28
FurnaceBoylicsned*Aug 14 23:28
*FurnaceBoy sighsAug 14 23:28
cubevectorbtw I tried OpenBSD last nightAug 14 23:29
MinceRwhy would anyone want to use Darwin and not, say, the freetype patents?Aug 14 23:29
cubevectorhad problems with itAug 14 23:29
FurnaceBoycubevector: orlyAug 14 23:29
FurnaceBoycubevector: isn't that getting zfs some time?Aug 14 23:29
MinceRDarwin's added value is negativeAug 14 23:29
DaemonFCcubevector, You could go PC-BSD B-)Aug 14 23:29
cubevectorFurnaceBoy, I didn't really give it a proper chance, just got too tired to fight with itAug 14 23:30
FurnaceBoycubevector: fair nufAug 14 23:30
cubevectorit seemed a bit behindAug 14 23:30
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2367819,00.aspAug 14 23:30
TechrightsBotTitle:         Apple Global Supply Manager Accused of Accepting $1 Million in Kickbacks | News & Opinion  | PCMag.com     .::. Size~: 72.99 KBAug 14 23:30
cubevectorFurnaceBoy, I was kind of interested in OpenBSD as it still has KDE 3.5.10 and I prefer the older KDEAug 14 23:31
schestowitz[23:28] <Chips_B_Malroy> does apple own Darwin?Aug 14 23:31
schestowitzThis sounds so absurdAug 14 23:31
schestowitzDarwin is not owned bya a religionAug 14 23:32
cubevectorhehAug 14 23:32
FurnaceBoycubevector: weird to pick an O/s for BEING behind, but ok...Aug 14 23:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@norweaver @Pudingtane @Dr_Rose .@qu1j0t3 the mosque is 2 blocks from the site. // & that's not far enough for you idiots? give it upAug 14 23:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] TO twitter followers: starting tomorrow I'll be in *write* only mode, forwarded from the #FreeSoftware social network. Won't see replies.sryAug 14 23:32
FurnaceBoycubevector: can't you just downgrade a linux? s/be easy on gentooAug 14 23:32
MinceRyeah, it's insulting that crApple was allowed to use Darwin's name as a brandAug 14 23:32
cubevectorFurnaceBoy, if I don't try different OSes, I may miss something really goodAug 14 23:32
MinceRthen again, they did that to Newton tooAug 14 23:32
DaemonFChttp://www.pcworld.com/article/203296/oracle_wields_java_as_a_weapon.html?tk=hp_newAug 14 23:32
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle Wields Java as a Weapon - PCWorld .::. Size~: 70.46 KBAug 14 23:32
schestowitzApple Macs users typically have their Macs stuck to the west wallAug 14 23:32
Chips_B_Malroywell, it might be free (Darwin) but last time I looked (years ago) they charged $60 to send you the disks.Aug 14 23:33
schestowitzHadting towards MeccapleAug 14 23:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] TO twitter followers: so if you want to interact with me, you either know other methods, or follow me at http://identi.ca/ruiseabra *bye* :)Aug 14 23:33
TechrightsBotTitle: Rui Seabra (ruiseabra)  - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 61.99 KBAug 14 23:33
MinceRare the disks made of gold or something?Aug 14 23:33
MinceRalso, do they have no web servers in cupertino?Aug 14 23:33
cubevectorFurnaceBoy, not really necessary as I have lots of older boxes with older Linuxes alreadyAug 14 23:33
MinceRi know their servers are just as crappy as their desktops, but they did manage to get a homepage going somehowAug 14 23:34
cubevectornever tried gentooAug 14 23:34
DaemonFChttp://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/13/business/la-fi-ct-newscorp-20100813Aug 14 23:35
DaemonFChahAug 14 23:35
TechrightsBotTitle: News Corp. plans national newspaper for tablet computers and cellphones - Los Angeles Times .::. Size~: 22.32 KBAug 14 23:35
cubevectorso many things to try :)Aug 14 23:35
DaemonFCDOAAug 14 23:35
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9180627/After_beating_Microsoft_VirnetX_hits_Apple_with_patent_suitAug 14 23:35
TechrightsBotTitle: After beating Microsoft, VirnetX hits Apple with patent suit - Computerworld .::. Size~: 83.89 KBAug 14 23:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ruiseabra bravoAug 14 23:35
*DaemonFC gets schestowitz a Highly Reliable Times subscriptionAug 14 23:35
DaemonFCheheAug 14 23:35
cubevectorAROS had a lot of potential, but it's just so alpha it's not funnyAug 14 23:35
MinceRHighly Reliable to have lots of lies inside?Aug 14 23:36
DaemonFCOh well, at least the dead tree subscriptions are declining Aug 14 23:36
cubevectorprobably next to try is gnewsenseAug 14 23:38
cubevectorthe ideal system would have no binary blobs, high efficiency, compact, with coreboot for bios on reliable hardwareAug 14 23:40
*Python1320 (Python1320@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe20dc00-83.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 23:41
*Python1320 has quit (Changing host)Aug 14 23:41
*Python1320 (Python1320@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovellAug 14 23:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@Ziggy_Daddy oh lord, those palin commenters, so these are the ones she LETS THRU? don't know whether to laugh or cryAug 14 23:42
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/week-in-tech-net-neutrality-waffling-gay-porn-pirating-and-more.arsAug 14 23:44
TechrightsBotTitle: Week in tech: net neutrality waffling, gay porn pirating, and more .::. Size~: 30.14 KBAug 14 23:44
DaemonFCschestowitz, What do you call piracy of gay porn?Aug 14 23:44
DaemonFCButt Piracy?Aug 14 23:45
DaemonFC:DAug 14 23:45
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/08/53-gay-porn-pirates-now-facing-p2p-lawsuits.arsAug 14 23:46
TechrightsBotTitle: 53 gay porn pirates face new round of P2P lawsuits .::. Size~: 28.85 KBAug 14 23:46
FurnaceBoycubevector: Start coding!Aug 14 23:46
schestowitzHighly Reliable Times = LSE propagandaAug 14 23:46
schestowitzLSE uses Linux nowAug 14 23:46
schestowitzWindows FAILAug 14 23:46
FurnaceBoyyes.Aug 14 23:46
DaemonFCschestowitz, Those damned butt piratesAug 14 23:47
DaemonFCdon't they have the decency to pay for that?Aug 14 23:47
schestowitzEwww...Aug 14 23:47
DaemonFC:DAug 14 23:47
schestowitzBroke-ass peopleAug 14 23:48
MinceRBroke ass-peopleAug 14 23:48
MinceRhttp://xkcd.com/37/Aug 14 23:48
TechrightsBotTitle: xkcd: Hyphen .::. Size~: 7.35 KBAug 14 23:48
DaemonFCa Volkswagon?Aug 14 23:49
FurnaceBoy-awgen*Aug 14 23:49
DaemonFCmy mom had a Volkswagon onceAug 14 23:49
FurnaceBoywagen*Aug 14 23:49
FurnaceBoysighAug 14 23:49
DaemonFCthe engine caught fireAug 14 23:49
DaemonFCand it stranded her in IllinoisAug 14 23:49
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's common in the beetlesAug 14 23:49
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it's a design flawAug 14 23:49
DaemonFCit was a Rabbit Aug 14 23:49
FurnaceBoyohhhhAug 14 23:49
DaemonFCyeah, they've never been reliableAug 14 23:50
DaemonFCrepair parts cost a fortuneAug 14 23:50
DaemonFCand they're made in MexicoAug 14 23:50
DaemonFC:PAug 14 23:50
cubevectorlongest lasting hardware so far: IBM eduquest, 17 yearsAug 14 23:50
schestowitzApproaching 100 comments now: http://techrights.org/2010/08/14/moglen-on-java-and-virnetx/comment-page-2/#comment-98153Aug 14 23:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Software Patents Crisis | Techrights .::. Size~: 192.01 KBAug 14 23:50
MinceRstrange, i keep hearing that VWs are among the most reliable carsAug 14 23:51
schestowitzhttp://news.softpedia.com/news/The-New-Ubuntu-10-10-Installer-Is-Live-152167.shtmlAug 14 23:51
TechrightsBotTitle: The New Ubuntu 10.10 Installer Is Live -  - Softpedia .::. Size~: 51.47 KBAug 14 23:51
MinceRthe others are mostly japanese brandsAug 14 23:51
schestowitzWith broken brakesAug 14 23:51
MinceRnot all of them have broken brakesAug 14 23:52
schestowitzThey are so reliable they just drive and drive and drive and drive and drive and drive and drive and drive and ...Aug 14 23:52
MinceRlolAug 14 23:52
MinceRMoving Forward -- Whether You Want It Or NotAug 14 23:52
schestowitz"Toyota - NOTHING STOP OH. OHYA!!"Aug 14 23:52
schestowitzToy-YoyoAug 14 23:53
schestowitzGood name for the next Apple productAug 14 23:53
MinceRnot reallyAug 14 23:53
MinceRit doesn't start with an "i"Aug 14 23:54
schestowitzToy-iOiOAug 14 23:54
schestowitzo_OAug 14 23:54
MinceRthat's very sony-ishAug 14 23:54
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/08/oss-and-software-patents-if-you-cant-beat-em-join-em.arsAug 14 23:54
TechrightsBotTitle: OSS and software patents: if you can't beat 'em, join 'em .::. Size~: 32.16 KBAug 14 23:54
schestowitzFan-Boi-iO_oAug 14 23:54
DaemonFCMinceR, Have you heard about Toyota's STAR Safety system?Aug 14 23:54
DaemonFCToyoty blah blah safety blah safe blah blah safety blah blah safest blah blah safer blah blah safetyAug 14 23:55
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20100813112425821Aug 14 23:55
TechrightsBotTitle: Groklaw -  The Oracle-Google Mess: A Question - Are Any of the Patents Tied to a Specific Machine? - Updated 4Xs: Google Speaks  .::. Size~: 196.86 KBAug 14 23:55
DaemonFCwas their last commercialAug 14 23:55
DaemonFCroughly Aug 14 23:55
DaemonFCsomeone should call the Guinness Book of World RecordsAug 14 23:55
schestowitzApple blah blah safety blah blah  sanctityAug 14 23:55
DaemonFCand nominate Toyota for using "Safety" a record number of times in a 30 second commercialAug 14 23:56
MinceRfunnyAug 14 23:56
MinceRif they break something, you cryAug 14 23:56
MinceRif they fix it, you cryAug 14 23:56
MinceRwhy not just say it like it is and confess that you hate them because they aren't usian? :>Aug 14 23:57
DaemonFCit's the Toyota Pinto spin doctoring ad campaign Aug 14 23:57
DaemonFC:PAug 14 23:57
DaemonFCalmost makes British Polluters ads look compelling Aug 14 23:57
MinceRi'm not sure if it was only them spinningAug 14 23:57
schestowitzhttp://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20100813101123406Aug 14 23:57
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle Sues Google Over Android:  What's Up with That? - ConsortiumInfo.org .::. Size~: 39.2 KBAug 14 23:58
DaemonFCMinceR, Toyota is not really an Asian companyAug 14 23:58
DaemonFCGM owns a lot of itAug 14 23:58
DaemonFCas with HondaAug 14 23:58
DaemonFCand most of the cars are made in the USAug 14 23:58
schestowitzToyota Pinta - have pint, drive it... it'll crash either wayAug 14 23:58
schestowitzDetroit is still part of the US?!?!Aug 14 23:58
DaemonFCbut I believe the braking problem was software-related Aug 14 23:59
DaemonFCschestowitz, Indiana isAug 14 23:59
schestowitzDaemonFC: Some blame MicrosoffAug 14 23:59
DaemonFC:)Aug 14 23:59
schestowitzDetroit is like he problematic kid in the familyAug 14 23:59
DaemonFCschestowitz, there's a lot of car production going on in the USAug 14 23:59
schestowitzBeating up kids in school and experimenting with hard drugsAug 14 23:59
MinceRthe family is what's problematicAug 14 23:59
DaemonFCit's just moving out of MichiganAug 14 23:59
MinceR(and the species)Aug 14 23:59

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