| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ibVbxkjnA | Aug 18 16:01 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: YouTube- 5 South Park Songs from Christian Rock Hard (great quality) .::. Size~: 99.75 KB | Aug 18 16:01 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 18 16:01 |
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| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Rock_Hard | Aug 18 16:03 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Christian Rock Hard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 75.45 KB | Aug 18 16:03 |
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| DaemonFC | good episode | Aug 18 16:03 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: Somehow I did get dragged along into going to church like once in the last 15-ish years a few years ago | Aug 18 16:05 |
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| DaemonFC | it's entertaining in kind of a sick way | Aug 18 16:05 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Wasn't #twitter forcing crappy #oauth for native apps since a few days ago? #lol #fail #again | Aug 18 16:06 |
| MinceR | i think i've been in one during a ritual, it was boring as hell | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| DaemonFC | you don't have the faith healers | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| DaemonFC | who speak in tongues | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| MinceR | the architecture is often interesting | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| MinceR | we do have pentecostals | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| MinceR | but i've never visited them (thankfully) | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| DaemonFC | and sell you cheap little disposable MP3 players pre-loaded with their audio books | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| DaemonFC | for only $100 | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| MinceR | lol | Aug 18 16:06 |
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| MinceR | hey, it's still better than a hypePod | Aug 18 16:07 |
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| MinceR | and cheaper | Aug 18 16:07 |
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| DaemonFC | disgusting | Aug 18 16:07 |
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| DaemonFC | yet true | Aug 18 16:07 |
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| MinceR | :> | Aug 18 16:07 |
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| DaemonFC | ahh, Missionaries | Aug 18 16:07 |
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| DaemonFC | the ones that go to Europe are funny enough | Aug 18 16:08 |
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| DaemonFC | I thought about piggybacking on one of those groups at one point just for a cheap vacation | Aug 18 16:08 |
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| DaemonFC | The ones that go to Africa are the worst though | Aug 18 16:08 |
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| DaemonFC | "Give us your money so we can buy bibles for the starving AIDS-infested people there!" | Aug 18 16:08 |
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| DaemonFC | I'm like "What the fuck good is that gonna do!? Are they supposed to boil them and eat the leather bindings!?" | Aug 18 16:09 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 18 16:09 |
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| DaemonFC | Maybe slip a couple of AIDS antiretroviral pills in there so we can get past their AIDS-denying governments? | Aug 18 16:10 |
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| DaemonFC | No? Just bibles? Fuck this then! | Aug 18 16:11 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 18 16:11 |
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| MinceR | fleshbible | Aug 18 16:11 |
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| DaemonFC | Get back to me when you're sending them something more useful, like a bottle of whiskey, a gun, and enough bullets for their entire family | Aug 18 16:11 |
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| DaemonFC | like what I'd ask for if I had to live there | Aug 18 16:12 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Pentagon wants "total censorship"; doesn't give a damn about Afghans: http://bit.ly/b3N2Pu | Aug 18 16:12 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: GC Letter.PDF - Google Docs .::. Size~: 22.33 KB | Aug 18 16:12 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 18 16:12 |
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| DaemonFC | That entire continent is hell on Earth | Aug 18 16:14 |
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| DaemonFC | how are you going to scare them with pansy crap like wrath of God? | Aug 18 16:14 |
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| DaemonFC | You're starving, you're covered in lice, you have several STDs + AIDS, Ebola has hit your village, and the water is too contaminated to drink | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: native Australians also suffered a barbaric missionary programme | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| DaemonFC | what exactly is left that is a threat to them? | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| MinceR | the entire planet is hell on earth | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| MinceR | "Hell is other people." | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: 'just unevenly distributed' | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| FurnaceBoy | paraphrasing some guy ... Alan Kay? | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| MinceR | indeed | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| MinceR | dunno | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| *sebsebseb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Aug 18 16:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: 'for now' | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| FurnaceBoy | the orig quote is, 'the future is already here, just unevenly distributed' more or less | Aug 18 16:16 |
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| MinceR | Jean-Paul Sartre | Aug 18 16:17 |
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| MinceR | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Exit | Aug 18 16:17 |
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| FurnaceBoy | William Gibson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiquote:William_Gibson | Aug 18 16:17 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: No Exit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 38.01 KB | Aug 18 16:17 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 18 16:17 |
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| MinceR | oh, that | Aug 18 16:17 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: Bono should be exported to Africa | Aug 18 16:18 |
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| DaemonFC | with no money, clothes, or food | Aug 18 16:18 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: what about Bob Geldof? | Aug 18 16:18 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Professor Says News Should Get Special 24 Hour Protections So No Aggregator Can Link To It http://dlvr.it/3yll9 | Aug 18 16:19 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Professor Says News Should Get Special 24 Hour Protections So No Aggregator Can Link To It | Techdirt .::. Size~: 23.68 KB | Aug 18 16:19 |
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| DaemonFC | he should be sent there with Bono | Aug 18 16:19 |
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| DaemonFC | and both of them issued a gun, a bullet, and cooking utensils | Aug 18 16:19 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 18 16:19 |
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| FurnaceBoy | well . now we cleared that up. | Aug 18 16:20 |
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| MinceR | sounds like an overly expensive plan | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | guess what's for dinner | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| MinceR | human? | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: I would subsidize it | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| FurnaceBoy | elephant | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | by making it a reality show | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | captured via UAV | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: include Gates, and I'm in. | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| MinceR | "here's a quickly zooming shot..." *splat* | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| MinceR | oops, there goes the UAV | Aug 18 16:21 |
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| DaemonFC | Dammit, who gave them Stingers!? | Aug 18 16:22 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 18 16:22 |
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| MinceR | if gates goes, i'd like to be a spectator | Aug 18 16:22 |
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| DaemonFC | *room goes quiet* | Aug 18 16:22 |
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| MinceR | with guns | Aug 18 16:22 |
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| oiaohm | Again it depends on the UAV | Aug 18 16:23 |
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| oiaohm | Not all UAV's can be shot down by Stingers | Aug 18 16:24 |
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| DaemonFC | paint the target, and fire | Aug 18 16:26 |
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| DaemonFC | the missile should be able to follow it from there | Aug 18 16:26 |
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| DaemonFC | countermeasures are totally ineffective with a system like that | Aug 18 16:27 |
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| DaemonFC | of course it depends if you're using a newer model with the ability to recognize the target | Aug 18 16:27 |
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| oiaohm | There is one countermeasure | Aug 18 16:27 |
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| oiaohm | Be too small. | Aug 18 16:27 |
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| DaemonFC | or an older model which just follows something like a heat signature | Aug 18 16:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: :) | Aug 18 16:27 |
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| DaemonFC | those are more dangerous | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| DaemonFC | because if it misses, it can decide to lock onto something else | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| oiaohm | The newer model that can recognise target has a size limit | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| oiaohm | That it can lock onto. | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| DaemonFC | so most of that type have a self destruct if they don't hit anything within a certain time | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| oiaohm | Be smaller than that. | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| oiaohm | And they cannot lock. | Aug 18 16:28 |
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| oiaohm | Same with trying to lock a laser on. | Aug 18 16:29 |
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| oiaohm | Small can be insanely hard to hit. | Aug 18 16:29 |
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| oiaohm | And insanely hard to stay on. | Aug 18 16:29 |
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| oiaohm | As I said it depend on the UAV. | Aug 18 16:29 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: I'm trying to get ahold of some of those taser cartridges that fit a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun | Aug 18 16:30 |
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| DaemonFC | those are all kinds of cool | Aug 18 16:30 |
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| oiaohm | Some of the hardest to lock onto here get more evil. | Aug 18 16:30 |
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| oiaohm | The one australian UAV is basically see threw. | Aug 18 16:30 |
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| DaemonFC | "Don't tase me bro!" | Aug 18 16:30 |
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| DaemonFC | Don't worry, bro. I've got 7 more of these for your friends | Aug 18 16:31 |
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| DaemonFC | B-) | Aug 18 16:31 |
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| DaemonFC | well, it still has a radar profile | Aug 18 16:32 |
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| DaemonFC | nothing manages to fully eliminate that | Aug 18 16:32 |
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| DaemonFC | so you're basically counting on the enemy's radar emplacements to be crap | Aug 18 16:32 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 18 16:32 |
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| MinceR | chaff? | Aug 18 16:33 |
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| DaemonFC | AND that they won't see you visually | Aug 18 16:33 |
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| DaemonFC | fly high enough and paint the bottom of the plane to roughly match the sky | Aug 18 16:33 |
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| DaemonFC | that's the most low tech way of avoiding visual contact from the ground :) | Aug 18 16:34 |
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| *MinceR enables his AT Field | Aug 18 16:36 |
| *DaemonFC enabled his RDF and suggests that MinceR can't see him | Aug 18 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 18 16:37 |
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| *MinceR is immune to the RDF | Aug 18 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | dammit | Aug 18 16:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | ... | Aug 18 16:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | jeez, go play EQII or something | Aug 18 16:37 |
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| *DaemonFC uses the Force AND his RDF to compel FurnaceBoy to go play in traffic | Aug 18 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 18 16:38 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Cuz it would be kinda #awkward to hit #Iran while over-extended in #Iraq. Fuck #war and the #MIC | Aug 18 16:40 |
| MinceR | gn | Aug 18 16:55 |
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| FurnaceBoy | n8 | Aug 18 16:58 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Idea for "Reset GUI" for Linux Desktop http://tinyurl.com/2eddxws #blog | Aug 18 17:09 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Narendra Sisodiya's weblog: Idea for "Reset GUI" for Linux Desktop .::. Size~: 84.22 KB | Aug 18 17:09 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] Attending the founding meeting of Fairvote Canada in Newmarket. Great bunch of people in attendance! | Aug 18 17:18 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] 'Companies that try to make $ by sticking a wrench into the gears of the market are necktie-strangled scammers' #netapp http://bit.ly/d0AoDx | Aug 18 18:18 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.haiku-os.org/about/faq#3 | Aug 18 18:29 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 18 18:29 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: General FAQ | Haiku Project .::. Size~: 22.65 KB | Aug 18 18:29 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Imsdroid High Quality Video SIP/IMS client for Google Android | Aug 18 18:34 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Industry Groups Back To 'Negotiating' Net Neutrality http://dlvr.it/3z18b | Aug 18 18:59 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Industry Groups Back To 'Negotiating' Net Neutrality | Techdirt .::. Size~: 25.53 KB | Aug 18 18:59 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Just found a great site for free cheat sheets for langauges, I was looking for CSS and PHP, for Drupal http://bit.ly/8X5cXG | Aug 18 19:03 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Cheat Sheets - Added Bytes .::. Size~: 33.24 KB | Aug 18 19:03 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Fantastico, a Drupal 6 theming cheat sheet http://bit.ly/b9rYbk | Aug 18 19:09 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Drupal 6 Theming Cheat Sheet - MineZone Blog .::. Size~: 24.36 KB | Aug 18 19:09 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Propaganda 101 http://bit.ly/9ODbaU | Aug 18 19:15 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Wikipedia editing courses launched by Zionist groups | World news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 75.61 KB | Aug 18 19:15 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] Free Software is all about democracy. Interesting how this Native American author gets that http://bit.ly/beC22t thx @glynmoody | Aug 18 19:17 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: GNU Telephony » Blog Archive » Free Software on the reservations .::. Size~: 12.8 KB | Aug 18 19:17 |
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| *Disconnected (Network is unreachable). | Aug 18 19:40 |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Aug 18 19:40:29 2010 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 18 19:40:42 2010 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Aug 18 19:40 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell for http://TechRights.org | Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those who oppose software freedom :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell-social | Aug 18 19:40 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Thu May 6 16:19:56 2010 | Aug 18 19:40 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Aug 18 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-rJndNbCYY | Aug 18 19:42 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: YouTube- Fork Lift Driver Klaus - The first day on the Job .::. Size~: 90.41 KB | Aug 18 19:42 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: thanks, I learned a lot. At least it wasn't a Downfall remix. | Aug 18 19:54 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] More Research: Competition Makes Groups More Creative http://dlvr.it/3zHSP | Aug 18 21:48 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Oh look at that, pro-peace anti-terrorism "Ground Zero" Imam, worked for Bush era FBI-led Middle East peace movement http://ur1.ca/16fvh | Aug 18 22:49 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: 'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Was A Bush-Era Partner For Mideast Peace | TPMMuckraker .::. Size~: 220.32 KB | Aug 18 22:49 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] To infinity and beyond: The struggle to save arithmetic http://ur1.ca/16fwl !science | Aug 18 22:54 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: To infinity and beyond: The struggle to save arithmetic - physics-math - 16 August 2010 - New Scientist .::. Size~: 63.49 KB | Aug 18 22:54 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] FOSS-Advocate - Umashankar I.A.S, a victim of Crony Capitalism - http://pragoti.org/node/4101 | Aug 18 23:13 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Umashankar I.A.S, a victim of Crony Capitalism. | PRAGOTI .::. Size~: 39.49 KB | Aug 18 23:13 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] 104 dollar cheapest android tablet 1.3 MPixel WebCam, Wifi, 10/100Mbps LAN, http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.44080 | Aug 18 23:31 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: DealExtreme: $104.90 7" Touch Screen TFT LCD Google Android 1.6 Tablet PC w/ WiFi/Camera (VIA WM8505 ARM926) .::. Size~: 90.18 KB | Aug 18 23:31 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @smaffulli MUST read: Did Germany experience rapid industrial expansion in the 19th century due to an absence of copyright law? http: ... | Aug 18 23:39 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] My private creditcard has been abused. Ouch. Now getting a new one. | Aug 18 23:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | meh | Aug 18 23:54 |
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| Diablo-D3 | that tablet is kinda shitty | Aug 18 23:54 |
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| Diablo-D3 | its only an arm9 | Aug 18 23:54 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and it looks like its nearly identical to via/wondermedia's refernece design | Aug 18 23:56 |
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| Diablo-D3 | holy shit, its like a 400mhz arm | Aug 18 23:56 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] @jwildeboer: You don't have access to a virtual card creation service? | Aug 19 00:00 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Superman Lawyer Claims Warner Bros. Lawsuit Is A SLAPP http://dlvr.it/3zZHS | Aug 19 00:46 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Superman Lawyer Claims Warner Bros. Lawsuit Is A SLAPP | Techdirt .::. Size~: 24.72 KB | Aug 19 00:46 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Wondering if today's gonna be THE day... | Aug 19 00:48 |
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| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/2010/08/probabilistic-processors-possibly-potent.ars analogo chip is back | Aug 19 01:39 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Don't be Neutral about Net Neutrality - http://bit.ly/azoGfD UK people, please write to Ofcom about #netneutrality #uk | Aug 19 03:00 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Wired’s Worst Stories: Zippies, The Long Boom, and Push! - http://bit.ly/94N3pk great post: I concur (via @Eaterofsun) #wired | Aug 19 03:29 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Wireds Worst Stories: Zippies, The Long Boom, and Push! | aether .::. Size~: 18.43 KB | Aug 19 03:29 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] The Real Reason for Germany's Industrial Expansion? [uk] - http://bit.ly/clZGRD absence of copyright (via @raycorrigan) #copyright #de | Aug 19 03:36 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: No Copyright Law: The Real Reason for Germany's Industrial Expansion? - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International .::. Size~: 38.63 KB | Aug 19 03:36 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Does Checking Your Email On Your BlackBerry Count As Overtime? http://dlvr.it/3zrmc | Aug 19 03:40 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Does Checking Your Email On Your BlackBerry Count As Overtime? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 24.63 KB | Aug 19 03:40 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] To - Rupee symbol devotee : Please don't replace any key from keyboard. Just add a new key. Don't touch $ ^ ` key. I use it for programming | Aug 19 03:49 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Allright! Today is THE day! Here he comes!!!! | Aug 19 03:55 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Time mentions Abu Laith al-Libi assassination attempt. Neglects to mention killed 7 children. http://bit.ly/dq8FuS | Aug 19 03:55 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Can an Assassination Campaign Turn the Tide in Afghanistan? - TIME .::. Size~: 51.93 KB | Aug 19 03:55 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] I am worry about w3c now : Microsoft to Co-Chair New W3C Web Performance Working Group http://ff.im/-poMZC | Aug 19 03:56 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Microsoft to Co-Chair New W3C Web Performance Working Group - IEBlog - Site Home - MSDN Blogs .::. Size~: 99.43 KB | Aug 19 03:56 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Iceland aiming to become global free press haven | AFP http://bit.ly/cYjy7V | Aug 19 04:12 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Reading "Create Static and Shared Library" on Scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/36111787 #Readcast | Aug 19 04:27 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] Reading Google Code Tutorial via Chat on Scribd http://scr.bi/dBtwLk #readcast | Aug 19 04:35 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] WikiLeaks vs. Pentagon: Phony finger pointing | CBS http://bit.ly/dAFKK1 | Aug 19 04:38 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Why WikiLeaks must be protected | New Statesman http://bit.ly/cQffiC | Aug 19 04:39 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] ssh-copy-id is my new friend :-) | Aug 19 04:50 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] 9Circuits - Indian Shop for some hobby kits and open hardware http://9circuits.com/products/ | Aug 19 05:17 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Aug. 19, 1839: Photography Goes Open Source - http://bit.ly/chM77t nice headline, if a little misleading #photography | Aug 19 05:22 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Aug. 19, 1839: Photography Goes Open Source | This Day In Tech | Wired.com .::. Size~: 68.21 KB | Aug 19 05:22 |
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| cubevector | testing on 2.2 again | Aug 19 05:28 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] USPTO Patent Grant Numbers - http://bit.ly/9Swz3t definitely not letting through too many bad patents #uspto #patents | Aug 19 05:29 |
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| cubevector | the wonderful world of autotools.... | Aug 19 05:29 |
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| amarsh04 | testing what, cubevector? | Aug 19 05:30 |
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| cubevector | just an old program of mine | Aug 19 05:30 |
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| amarsh04 | ah... | Aug 19 05:31 |
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| cubevector | trying to figure out how bl3 decides where the man pages are located | Aug 19 05:32 |
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| cubevector | not completely happy with bl3 | Aug 19 05:34 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] It's the final countdown #ACTA http://www.laquadrature.net/en/wd12-on-acta-its-the-final-countdown | Aug 19 05:40 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] RT @stshank Intel agrees to buy McAfee for $7.68 billion. Big news: Intel expansion to software, http://yhoo.it/cFj0iF >>interesting #intel | Aug 19 05:46 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Intel to Acquire McAfee - Yahoo! Finance .::. Size~: 107.48 KB | Aug 19 05:46 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] ThaiLeaks announced http://bit.ly/a3R9Ic | Aug 19 05:53 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Can Antitrust Law Stop Abuses Of Intellectual Property And Free Access To Knowledge? http://dlvr.it/404Q9 | Aug 19 05:57 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Can Antitrust Law Stop Abuses Of Intellectual Property And Free Access To Knowledge? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 23.83 KB | Aug 19 05:57 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Waiting for Wikileaks: Beijing's Seven Secrets | NYB http://bit.ly/agnR6H | Aug 19 06:01 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Waiting for Wikileaks: Beijings Seven Secrets | The New York Review of Books .::. Size~: 24.92 KB | Aug 19 06:01 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] Acacia, an NPE, recharged by mysterious investor. Who would be sued? http://bit.ly/dcJlB0 #swpat | Aug 19 06:02 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: $250 million fund created to buy patents - Jan Norman on Small Business : The Orange County Register .::. Size~: 65.9 KB | Aug 19 06:02 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] It is time to open the archives. | Aug 19 06:15 |
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| alex____ | hey, was reading minimsft's latest blog's comments, and stumbled onto this: | Aug 19 06:20 |
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| alex____ | Anonymous said... Anyone know what the story is with silverlight? My team got a direct message not to use the technology. Received the same message in Windows Live. HTML 5 is P1. | Aug 19 06:21 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[nsisodiya] downloading latest dump of English Wikipedia - 6GB http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/latest/enwiki-latest-pages-articles.xml.bz2 | Aug 19 06:22 |
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| *amarsh04 is listening to http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jul/20/episode-0x2c-eben-software-liability/ | Aug 19 06:24 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Episode 0x2C: Eben on Software Liability - Software Freedom Law Show - Software Freedom Law Center .::. Size~: 10.13 KB | Aug 19 06:24 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] Reuters: US-EU food fight dogs ACTA talks http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1822038820100818 | Aug 19 06:25 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: US-EU food fight dogs anti-counterfeiting talks| Reuters .::. Size~: 53.3 KB | Aug 19 06:25 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Was WikiLeaks right? Interesting BBC interview with NYT, RSF & Heather Brooke http://bbc.in/artrCh | Aug 19 06:30 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Intel pays more for McAfee ($7.7B) as ORCL paid for SUN ($7.4B). #Weird. | Aug 19 06:30 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] "All we have to do is release the password to that material and it is instantly available," | BBC http://bbc.in/9pJjAx | Aug 19 06:55 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: BBC News - Wikileaks encryption use offers 'legal challenge' .::. Size~: 58.55 KB | Aug 19 06:55 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] 5 Ways To Download Torrents Anonymously - http://bit.ly/dgznHM in case you were wondering #torrents #anonymity | Aug 19 06:57 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: 5 Ways To Download Torrents Anonymously | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 42.49 KB | Aug 19 06:57 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] The software behind the VA health care transformation - http://oreil.ly/9FbFLM lots of open source involved #healthcare #vista | Aug 19 07:02 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Little Ceasar's Says Pizza Pizza Pizza Menu Offering Infringes On Its Pizza Pizza Slogan http://dlvr.it/40CXc | Aug 19 07:13 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Little Ceasar's Says Pizza Pizza Pizza Menu Offering Infringes On Its Pizza Pizza Slogan | Techdirt .::. Size~: 26.15 KB | Aug 19 07:13 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @sgaudin: Intel shelling out $7.68 billion to buy McAfee. Chip maker becomes security specialist. http://bit.ly/9I16nj Me: Why so much $! | Aug 19 07:24 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Bulletin: Intel to buy McAfee for $7.68 billion - Computerworld .::. Size~: 73.95 KB | Aug 19 07:24 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] They're out to rid the world of typos http://is.gd/eoMOr Now, if I could only have them work as my copy editors... | Aug 19 07:27 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: They're out to rid the world of typos | Philadelphia Inquirer | 08/17/2010 .::. Size~: 128.31 KB | Aug 19 07:27 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Waiting for Wikileaks: Beijing's Seven Secrets - http://bit.ly/9SlCR1 CPC vs. Wikileaks - that would be fun (via @fuzheado @niubi) #china | Aug 19 07:29 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @jzb @TheOnion - Nation Shudders At Large Block Of Uninterrupted Text http://onion.com/cKgrSj Me: If only I didn't so much truth here... | Aug 19 07:29 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Waiting for Wikileaks: Beijings Seven Secrets | The New York Review of Books .::. Size~: 24.92 KB | Aug 19 07:29 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Nation Shudders At Large Block Of Uninterrupted Text | The Onion - America's Finest News Source .::. Size~: 34.71 KB | Aug 19 07:29 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @ded John Resig's talk on "6 secrets to becoming a #jQuery ninja" http://bit.ly/9a3huf // '#IE leaks memory all over the place' | Aug 19 07:34 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] .@tonyclement_mp says Canadian telecom carriers must play catch-up - notes need to open market "http://bit.ly/dphObt | Aug 19 07:50 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Carriers must play catch-up: Clement .::. Size~: 79.37 KB | Aug 19 07:50 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] RT @catmiddleton: PIAC: broadband shld be considered an essential service, available to all Cdn consumers http://bit.ly/aG9OAd | Aug 19 08:06 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: PIAC | Is Broadband Basic Service .::. Size~: 14.15 KB | Aug 19 08:06 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Is Oracle going after Google because Ellison is buddies with Jobs? http://is.gd/eoPvG Could be! by @sjvn | Aug 19 08:08 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Is Oracle going after Google because Ellison is buddies with Jobs? | ITworld .::. Size~: 82.47 KB | Aug 19 08:08 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] Why oil billionaire David Koch is secretly funding Astroturf to repeal CA clean energy laws - http://bit.ly/bB26hF selfish or what? #fud | Aug 19 08:09 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Why oil billionaire David Koch is secretly funding Astroturf to repeal CA clean energy laws « Climate Progress .::. Size~: 45.43 KB | Aug 19 08:09 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Morning peeps, how are we all doing today? | Aug 19 08:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Sometimes life deals you a tough blow just when you thought it was on the up :( http://bbc.in/dtYsNq | Aug 19 08:20 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: BBC News - London woman fractures spine in honeymoon balcony fall .::. Size~: 50.51 KB | Aug 19 08:20 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @deborahgage: Why iPads are taking off in hospitals http://is.gd/eoQHc | Aug 19 08:24 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Why iPads are taking off in hospitals - SmartPlanet .::. Size~: 62.08 KB | Aug 19 08:24 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] DoD's General Counsel is apparently an "incompetent authority" http://bit.ly/baHrE5 v. http://bit.ly/b3N2Pu | Aug 19 08:28 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Defense.gov News Article: WikiLeaks Has Yet to Contact ‘Competent Authorities’ .::. Size~: 37.8 KB | Aug 19 08:28 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @opensourceway: 3 reasons why open source works for Alzheimer's research http://bit.ly/cZghJf | Aug 19 08:35 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Three reasons why open source is working for Alzheimer's research | opensource.com .::. Size~: 42.93 KB | Aug 19 08:35 |
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| gnufreex | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/19/hp_headhunter_new_flack/ | Aug 19 08:35 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: HP hires headhunter to replace Hurd • The Register .::. Size~: 26.7 KB | Aug 19 08:35 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Everytime Wikileaks do something like this my admirtion for them goes up another notch, keep it up guys http://bbc.in/dif0M5 | Aug 19 08:36 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: BBC News - Wikileaks encryption use offers 'legal challenge' .::. Size~: 58.47 KB | Aug 19 08:36 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Another Woman Asks Google To Name People Who Were Mean To Her Online http://dlvr.it/40MZh | Aug 19 08:44 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Another Woman Asks Google To Name People Who Were Mean To Her Online | Techdirt .::. Size~: 26.33 KB | Aug 19 08:44 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Pentagon: The free press trying to do the right thing are worse than Iran: http://bit.ly/a65tRI | Aug 19 08:46 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / DoD: We are not interested in n ... .::. Size~: 12.03 KB | Aug 19 08:46 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] RT @daeaves: Today on eaves.ca: How science is rediscovering 'Open' & what it means for government http://bit.ly/bajhfl | Aug 19 08:55 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: How Science Is Rediscovering Open And What It Means For Government | eaves.ca .::. Size~: 35.78 KB | Aug 19 08:55 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Pentagon won't negotiate, but can't count. 15k documents out in PR. http://bit.ly/baHrE5 http://bit.ly/aWbowV | Aug 19 09:01 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Defense.gov News Article: WikiLeaks Has Yet to Contact ‘Competent Authorities’ .::. Size~: 37.69 KB | Aug 19 09:01 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @jcatcw: RT @richi: Intel acquires McAfee for $7.68 billion: reaction roundup. Whoa. Who saw that coming? http://bit.ly/8ZREB $INTC $MFE | Aug 19 09:04 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: IT Blogwatch's Most Recent Posts - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 88.61 KB | Aug 19 09:04 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: You ever wonder if it's the license or the development model that makes software projects stall out and get forked more often? | Aug 19 09:12 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] ♺ @mairin: okay, seriously. this is an opportunity you cannot pass up - free ux design for your FLOSS project! read more http://ur1.ca/16kgh | Aug 19 09:13 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Free Interaction Design for your FLOSS Project « MáirÃn Duffy .::. Size~: 33.22 KB | Aug 19 09:13 |
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| DaemonFC | then there's politics behind the scenes that torpedo even GPL software and cause irreconcilable differences | Aug 19 09:14 |
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| DaemonFC | such as copyright assignment | Aug 19 09:15 |
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| DaemonFC | the FSF won't merge back any of your work on their project unless you transfer ownership of everything you do to them | Aug 19 09:15 |
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| DaemonFC | what I've noticed is that an FSF project will start out, get something that kind of half works, and stall out | Aug 19 09:16 |
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| DaemonFC | then someone will come along, fork it, fix it up, and then FSF will not merge the patches back in | Aug 19 09:16 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: FSF asking for Copyright asingment is smart decision. | Aug 19 09:16 |
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| DaemonFC | because the other author won't give them copyright over all the work they did | Aug 19 09:16 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Linux can't move to GPLv3 because they didn't pay attention | Aug 19 09:17 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Google targeting Apple iPad with Chrome tablet? - http://bit.ly/c9b3Bq Sure looks it. #Google #iPad #Linux #Chrome #Apple | Aug 19 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | so both projects eventually either end up dying or becoming mutually incompatible, or both having different feature sets and bugs | Aug 19 09:17 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Google targeting Apple iPad with Chrome tablet? - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 60.47 KB | Aug 19 09:17 |
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| DaemonFC | Well, if the author says GPL 2 or later, then they could have | Aug 19 09:17 |
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| DaemonFC | most authors, even current ones don't want to do that | Aug 19 09:17 |
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| DaemonFC | so it's take the code as GPL 2 or have them leave and not do anything for you at all | Aug 19 09:18 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Without copyright tracking contributors, you can't enforece GPL efectively | Aug 19 09:18 |
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| DaemonFC | given the choice, I would also keep it all GPL 2 in favor of losing about half my active developers | Aug 19 09:18 |
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| gnufreex | And most projects are GPLv2+ | Aug 19 09:18 |
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| gnufreex | Just coprorate ones are set "only" | Aug 19 09:18 |
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| DaemonFC | right, companies that don't like GPL 3 represent about half of the current contributors to Linux | Aug 19 09:19 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Not true. | Aug 19 09:19 |
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| DaemonFC | so not only can Linus not relicense the kernel, it would be stupid to do so if he could | Aug 19 09:19 |
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| DaemonFC | his goal is to have Linux spread and become popular | Aug 19 09:20 |
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| DaemonFC | not get involved in unrelated politics | Aug 19 09:20 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: If Linus wanted to bother, and if copyrights were tracked, companies couldn't do anything against it | Aug 19 09:20 |
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| DaemonFC | he's made his position clear | Aug 19 09:20 |
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| DaemonFC | he said he would have gone BSD license if it wouldn't have caused people to fork and not give back | Aug 19 09:20 |
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| DaemonFC | he called even GPL 2 a terrible political document | Aug 19 09:20 |
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| DaemonFC | so it's clear that he's more concerned about code hording than the rest of the provisions of the license | Aug 19 09:21 |
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| DaemonFC | but GPL 2 is more battle tested in court than coming up with your own license | Aug 19 09:21 |
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| DaemonFC | and it enables you to link to other GPL 2 stuff | Aug 19 09:21 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: He is ego maniack, he doesn't know what he want. He in fact want his name to be widespread, that is why he named the thing Linux. | Aug 19 09:22 |
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| DaemonFC | so it made practical sense to use GPL 2 even if he didn't agree with a lot of it | Aug 19 09:22 |
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| DaemonFC | he started it | Aug 19 09:22 |
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| DaemonFC | he got to name it | Aug 19 09:22 |
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| DaemonFC | you know that people that find or start things get to name them right? | Aug 19 09:22 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: DRMed Android phones should be wake up call for him | Aug 19 09:22 |
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| amarsh04 | wikileaks twitter pointed to a non-existant milking site "wardairy.wikileaks.org" instead of http://wardiary.wikileaks.org/ | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Kabul War Diary .::. Size~: 36.25 KB | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| gnufreex | To reconsider GPLv3 | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| DaemonFC | There's lots of space debris out there named after people that found them | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| DaemonFC | a billion years from now, that debris will be there | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| DaemonFC | even though in 50 years, the person who named it will be dead | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| amarsh04 | assingment of copyrights to FSF for GRUB2 is working and I respect the projects decision to make the project GPL3 or later | Aug 19 09:23 |
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| DaemonFC | well, the GPL 3 is having the effect of making it difficult to make your own Linux distro without using some GPL 3 software | Aug 19 09:24 |
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| DaemonFC | but on the other hand, it's safe to use it because you probably don't hold patents on what it does anyway | Aug 19 09:24 |
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| DaemonFC | so even a company with a Microsoft deal could probably use more or less all of what's out there now | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| DaemonFC | if they wanted to | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| amarsh04 | this has delayed inclusion of btrfs support into GRUB2, but has spurred re-implementation of GPL2 code as GPL3 or later code | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| DaemonFC | it is making legal reviews more lengthy and expensive | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| DaemonFC | that much is clear | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| DaemonFC | how has it stalled file system support? | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| DaemonFC | you're not linking code | Aug 19 09:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: static linking even | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | GPL3 is Grub 2 license, right | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: grub has zfs support now too iirc | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | but all the file systems in the kernel today are GPL 2 | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | just like the kernel | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | so why is btrfs support special? | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| amarsh04 | GRUB2 can read more filesystems than GRUB legacy | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | right, because it doesn't make STUPID assumptions | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | that require ugly hacks to work around | Aug 19 09:26 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| amarsh04 | I'd have to review the developer mailing list but I think Oracle had it as GPL2 only | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| DaemonFC | that's why XFS on GRUB Legacy was, unreliable | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: moreso, the code has to be physically IN it, or you can't boot fs <whatever> | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| DaemonFC | and Ext4 is even questionable | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| DaemonFC | right, this is one reason GRUB has stages | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| DaemonFC | the others being limitations in PC BIOS mainly | Aug 19 09:27 |
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| amarsh04 | remember, when running as the bootloader, GRUB2 doesn't write to filesystems, so it only needs read-only support for filesystems | Aug 19 09:28 |
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| DaemonFC | so if your argument is valid, GRUB stage 3 would have to be GPL 2 to call the file system | Aug 19 09:28 |
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| DaemonFC | if the file system is GPL 2 | Aug 19 09:28 |
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| DaemonFC | luckily, that's incorrect and all of GRUB can be GPL 3 without worrying about fs license | Aug 19 09:28 |
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| amarsh04 | the issue is having GPL3 read-only support for a given filesystem | Aug 19 09:29 |
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| FurnaceBoy | amarsh04: right, typically it's only a subset. e.g. for zfs, only a few vdev types are supported | Aug 19 09:29 |
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| DaemonFC | mkinitrd | Aug 19 09:29 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 09:29 |
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| amarsh04 | GRUB doesn't write to filesystems or run fsck.<your filesystem> | Aug 19 09:29 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.netadmintools.com/html/mkinitrd.man.html | Aug 19 09:29 |
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| DaemonFC | you can also hand GRUB something it does understand on /boot | Aug 19 09:30 |
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| DaemonFC | while having your preferred file system on / | Aug 19 09:31 |
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| DaemonFC | I used to have to do that when Grub would fuck XFS over royally or just simply hang and refuse to install | Aug 19 09:31 |
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| DaemonFC | easier to hand it /boot on Ext3 | Aug 19 09:31 |
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| DaemonFC | so it can be stupid and happy | Aug 19 09:31 |
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| DaemonFC | aand boot your system | Aug 19 09:31 |
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| DaemonFC | GRUB Legacy had a lot of problems because it was really only designed with Ext and Ext2 in mind initially | Aug 19 09:32 |
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| DaemonFC | the original Extended File System was removed a couple years later | Aug 19 09:33 |
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| amarsh04 | I have a separate /boot filesystem to overcome bios limitations, I could use ata.mod instead of biosdisk.mod, but it loads slower | Aug 19 09:33 |
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| DaemonFC | and Ext3 is basically Ext2 with a journal and a few minor changes | Aug 19 09:33 |
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| amarsh04 | ie biosdisk.mod reads this disk faster than ata.mod | Aug 19 09:34 |
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| DaemonFC | amarsh04: You need the large inode patched Grub Legacy to even boot Ext3 now | Aug 19 09:34 |
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| DaemonFC | because new Ext3 partitions have 256-byte inode | Aug 19 09:34 |
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| DaemonFC | to make it easier to convert to ext4 later | Aug 19 09:34 |
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| DaemonFC | this has been the case in most distros since late 2006 | Aug 19 09:35 |
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| amarsh04 | I haven't even seen that version of GRUB legacy... I just read the grub mailing lists and #grub on irc | Aug 19 09:35 |
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| DaemonFC | Ext3 to Ext4 in place conversions are a bad idea | Aug 19 09:35 |
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| DaemonFC | unless you're prepared to build and use e4defrag when you're done | Aug 19 09:35 |
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| amarsh04 | if I'm fiddling with my boot hard disk's partitioning, I'll use a cdrw with sysrescuecd image on it | Aug 19 09:36 |
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| DaemonFC | well, what you get when you do an in-place conversion is that all existing files are still stored the way Ext3 put them there | Aug 19 09:37 |
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| DaemonFC | but all new files are stored the way Ext4 stores them, complete with Extents | Aug 19 09:37 |
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| DaemonFC | (unless you turn that off) | Aug 19 09:37 |
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| DaemonFC | and if you do have fiels stored using Extents, you have to delete them all before mounting the file system as Ext3 again | Aug 19 09:38 |
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| DaemonFC | so it's better to just figure that Ext3 to Ext4 is going to involve a format if you don't want a frankenfilesystem | Aug 19 09:38 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 09:38 |
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| DaemonFC | so the easy in place conversion that Ext4 was supposed to provide has turned into a giant clusterfuck that a lot of people really don't want to entangle themselves in | Aug 19 09:39 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 09:39 |
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| DaemonFC | While people who went with XFS can jsut keep on trucking | Aug 19 09:40 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 09:40 |
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| DaemonFC | most of the limitations of Ext4 are design concessions which were originally intended to let you easily go back to Ext3 | Aug 19 09:41 |
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| DaemonFC | which isn't really practical but the limitations in Ext4 remain | Aug 19 09:41 |
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| FurnaceBoy | well, these filesystems aren't state of the art by any definition. | Aug 19 09:41 |
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| DaemonFC | The problem with GPL is that it's less about good software that works | Aug 19 09:41 |
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| DaemonFC | and more of a political document | Aug 19 09:41 |
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| DaemonFC | if you get good software that works, it's because you were careful not to integrate everybody's stupid crap into YOUR project | Aug 19 09:42 |
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| DaemonFC | then you're inviting a fork | Aug 19 09:42 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 09:42 |
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| DaemonFC | I think the reason XFS has survived being GPL without a fork is because all of the bad programmers went and fidgeted around with Ext* instead | Aug 19 09:43 |
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| DaemonFC | I mean, how else do you explain calling the block allocator 30,000 times for a 100 MB file? | Aug 19 09:43 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 09:43 |
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| DaemonFC | (fixed in Ext4 because they have a couple of competent people that are forced to work on it for their employer) | Aug 19 09:44 |
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| DaemonFC | Eric Sandeen was the one who fixed this I think | Aug 19 09:44 |
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| DaemonFC | he was originally behind the design of XFS | Aug 19 09:44 |
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| DaemonFC | which does not call teh block allocator 300,000 times for a 1 GB file | Aug 19 09:45 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 09:45 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: So you are saying that all GPL software suck and needs to be forked?... You can't be more wrong. | Aug 19 09:46 |
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| DaemonFC | Ext* is basically an overgrowth of bad design spanning more than 15 years | Aug 19 09:46 |
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| cubevector | what's wrong with ext? | Aug 19 09:46 |
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| DaemonFC | XFS and ZFS are basically the two stable *nix file systems that are kind of sane | Aug 19 09:47 |
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| DaemonFC | and only XFS works on Linux thanks to the GPL | Aug 19 09:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | all write in place systems are obsolete | Aug 19 09:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | they're the 'C' of filesystems. we still use it, but nobody pretends it's state of the art | Aug 19 09:47 |
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| DaemonFC | You can't be serious if you're defending something that calls the block allocator 30,000 times for a 100 MB file | Aug 19 09:47 |
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| DaemonFC | you just can't | Aug 19 09:47 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: So you would like to switch to CDDL just for ZFS? Sun didn't want GPL in Linux, get over it. | Aug 19 09:48 |
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| DaemonFC | and you also can't say that this avoids fragmentation | Aug 19 09:48 |
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| DaemonFC | it causes it | Aug 19 09:48 |
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| DaemonFC | and higher CPU usage | Aug 19 09:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I don't understand why you put all your energy into talking and not coding | Aug 19 09:48 |
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| DaemonFC | well, most open source tends to be a lost cause | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| cubevector | I guess he doesn't like groff either :) | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: ORLY | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| DaemonFC | there's a few poster children that somehow survived the abusive upbringing | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| DaemonFC | and that's all you ever hear about | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: actually, it's the other way round. proprietary is a lost cause by definition. | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: open source provides the only hope we have. period. | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: so get to work | Aug 19 09:49 |
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| cubevector | DfsOS will rule all :) | Aug 19 09:50 |
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| amarsh04 | constructive bug reports and being willing to run test cases and confirm how they work is a good way of participating if you don't want to code or document | Aug 19 09:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | amarsh04: sure beats endless kibitzing | Aug 19 09:50 |
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| DaemonFC | I think it's awfully cute to say that forks fix everything | Aug 19 09:50 |
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| DaemonFC | it results in two different piles of bugs | Aug 19 09:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: talk fixes everything amirite | Aug 19 09:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of course forking is costly. | Aug 19 09:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it's a last resort | Aug 19 09:51 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Tell me when you are done trolling. | Aug 19 09:51 |
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| amarsh04 | agreed FurnaceBoy | Aug 19 09:51 |
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| DaemonFC | I've been going over two different Vorbis encoders and cherry picking things that make sense | Aug 19 09:51 |
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| DaemonFC | and so now I'm effectively maintaining my own fork of that | Aug 19 09:51 |
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| amarsh04 | having git and trees seems to work a lot better than isolated forks and incompatible patches | Aug 19 09:52 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 09:52 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @jacksonh: Ever since the death of the internet we have been using bittorrent to announce our new products. | Aug 19 09:52 |
| amarsh04 | but if you aren't feeding them back DaemonFC, how is that benefiting anyone other than yourself? You would also benefit if any of your fixes were implemented upstream. | Aug 19 09:53 |
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| DaemonFC | amarsh04: I've basically taken the latest AoTuv patches complete with the new block switching algorithm, and integrated the codebook fixes from libvorbis 1.3.1 and built it against libogg 1.2 | Aug 19 09:53 |
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| DaemonFC | and in so doing, I had to come up with updated MSVC 2010 project files that could actually build this | Aug 19 09:53 |
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| DaemonFC | hell with them, it works for me, they can sort out their own mess | Aug 19 09:54 |
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| DaemonFC | I'm not going to get involved in the middle of this | Aug 19 09:54 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 09:54 |
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| amarsh04 | so you're effectively maintaining your own tree but don't make it available to anyone else? | Aug 19 09:54 |
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| DaemonFC | basically, yes | Aug 19 09:54 |
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| gnufreex | So what is the reason for not making it public? | Aug 19 09:55 |
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| DaemonFC | because then the bitchfest will commence | Aug 19 09:55 |
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| DaemonFC | and there will be THREE different piles of bugs out there | Aug 19 09:55 |
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| gnufreex | You think that none of your changes can't benefit any of those projects ? | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| DaemonFC | "Why did you do that!? If you had just given me 20 more years, it would be in the mainline version!" | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| FurnaceBoy | bitchfest? so you like to complain about others' work but can't take criticism of your own? | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| amarsh04 | if only you can write to your own tree, but others can read it, they can at least work towards upstream benefiting from your tree | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| DaemonFC | "GRAWWWWWW!!!!" | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: why don't you co-operate, like Sesame Street taught you | Aug 19 09:56 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah, I've considered releasing this somehow | Aug 19 09:57 |
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| DaemonFC | but there are a few problems | Aug 19 09:57 |
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| DaemonFC | how and under what license? | Aug 19 09:57 |
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| DaemonFC | it's three clause BSD, so I could even wrap my own license around it | Aug 19 09:57 |
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| gnufreex | What is the license of code you took? | Aug 19 09:57 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Treasure Trove Of Jazz To Be Blocked, Perhaps Forever, Thanks To Copyright http://dlvr.it/40VFS | Aug 19 09:58 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Treasure Trove Of Jazz To Be Blocked, Perhaps Forever, Thanks To Copyright | Techdirt .::. Size~: 22.15 KB | Aug 19 09:58 |
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| DaemonFC | meh, I'd probably just keep it that way | Aug 19 09:58 |
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| DaemonFC | three clause BSD | Aug 19 09:58 |
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| DaemonFC | or MIT X11 | Aug 19 09:58 |
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| DaemonFC | they're effectively the same thing | Aug 19 09:58 |
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| gnufreex | So, if you want those projects to take you code, keep same license | Aug 19 09:58 |
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| DaemonFC | I'll probably just zip everything I did and host it somewhere like that with build instructions | Aug 19 09:59 |
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| gnufreex | Did you really treid to talk with people on mailing lists of those projects? | Aug 19 10:00 |
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| DaemonFC | well, the problem is that Xiph.org has a really closed development model | Aug 19 10:01 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @TheTechScribe: What to Look for in Open Source Systems Management Products http://bit.ly/cDAUJj by @TheTechScribe | Aug 19 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | and is more concerned with fixing bugs that have nothing to do with anything other than memory leaks, build problems, or specification corrections | Aug 19 10:01 |
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| DaemonFC | it's like it's a permanent 1.0 release | Aug 19 10:01 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @mike_elgan: Finally: E-mail scheduling coming to Gmail http://bit.ly/aJeFsL Me: Albeit not from Google. | Aug 19 10:02 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Finally: E-mail scheduling coming to Gmail | ITworld .::. Size~: 81.7 KB | Aug 19 10:02 |
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| gnufreex | Well... I don't know what to tell you | Aug 19 10:02 |
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| DaemonFC | I don't think they're serious about Vorbis becoming a lot better than it was when they froze 1.0 | Aug 19 10:02 |
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| DaemonFC | what was that, 8 years ago? | Aug 19 10:02 |
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| gnufreex | I know they are scared of patents. | Aug 19 10:02 |
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| DaemonFC | right, having to have a lawyer tell you how you can write your software sucks | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| DaemonFC | that's the problem with aptents | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| DaemonFC | *patents | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| gnufreex | did you read this http://wiki.xiph.org/How_to_help | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: How to help - XiphWiki .::. Size~: 16.76 KB | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| gnufreex | I figure you did.. | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| gnufreex | But still | Aug 19 10:03 |
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| gnufreex | Yes, I know, I hate patents | Aug 19 10:04 |
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| DaemonFC | their stated policy and what Chris Montgomery will merge are different things entirely | Aug 19 10:04 |
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| gnufreex | Well... | Aug 19 10:04 |
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| DaemonFC | he's probably become more skittish due to patents | Aug 19 10:04 |
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| DaemonFC | my impression based on his behavior | Aug 19 10:04 |
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| gnufreex | MPEG LA needs to be destroyed | Aug 19 10:05 |
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| gnufreex | That is cold truth | Aug 19 10:05 |
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| gnufreex | Those scumbags claim that every codec is their | Aug 19 10:05 |
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| DaemonFC | right | Aug 19 10:05 |
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| gnufreex | They wan't money from everyone | Aug 19 10:05 |
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| DaemonFC | "every codec is infringing on our patents" | Aug 19 10:05 |
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| gnufreex | When I see this page I want to cry http://www.mpegla.com/main/Pages/FormPool.aspx | Aug 19 10:06 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: MPEG LA - The Standard for Standards - Want to Form a Pool? .::. Size~: 18.01 KB | Aug 19 10:06 |
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| gnufreex | That is as idiotic as it gets | Aug 19 10:07 |
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| Diablo-D3 | gnufreex is a troll, but at least he trolls the right people | Aug 19 10:07 |
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| gnufreex | Diable-D3: Why do you think I am a troll? | Aug 19 10:07 |
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| Diablo-D3 | dont worry gnufreex, Roy is a troll too | Aug 19 10:08 |
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| gnufreex | Diable-D3: What about you? | Aug 19 10:08 |
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| Diablo-D3 | I used to be a troll | Aug 19 10:08 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and I got things done, too | Aug 19 10:08 |
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| gnufreex | Diable-D3: What things? | Aug 19 10:08 |
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| Diablo-D3 | OFTC was created virtually upon my request. | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| *sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 10:09 |
| amarsh04 | Is everyone who asks for the GPL sourcecode of their programmable device (router, television, heart defibrilator) a troll? | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and lilo was under investigation by the IRS for tax fraud before he decided to play in the street | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| sebsebseb | Hi | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| Diablo-D3 | amarsh04: yes, and these people should be proud of themselves. | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| FurnaceBoy | +1 | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| Diablo-D3 | being a troll is not an easy thing | Aug 19 10:09 |
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| amarsh04 | sorry, what's OFTC? | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| Diablo-D3 | if you're good at it, pat yourself on the back | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC see, compliments | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| DaemonFC | that's another thing | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| Diablo-D3 | amarsh04: OFTC is a network that was formed from servers and staff that split from OPN | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| DaemonFC | what if it is violating patents and I'm distributing it? | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| Diablo-D3 | due to the whole lilo global notice, "hi, give me monies" shit | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| Diablo-D3 | I was the defacto loudest objector to what he was doing | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| *amarsh04 is currently listening to http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/feb/16/0x21/ | Aug 19 10:10 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Episode 0x21: Medical Devices and Karen's Heart - Software Freedom Law Show - Software Freedom Law Center .::. Size~: 13.71 KB | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| gnufreex | Diable-D3: OFTS is this http://www.oftc.net/oftc/ | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: OFTC - OFTC .::. Size~: 14 KB | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| gnufreex | ? | Aug 19 10:10 |
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| *_Goblin (~goblin@178.102.164.157) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 10:13 |
| _Goblin | hi all. | Aug 19 10:13 |
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| gnufreex | hi | Aug 19 10:14 |
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| Diablo-D3 | gnufreex: yes, that oftc. | Aug 19 10:15 |
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| _Goblin | a bit quiet in here... | Aug 19 10:15 |
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| gnufreex | How did you create it... and I am really interested why you think I am troll. I don't want to be a troll, Diablo-D3 | Aug 19 10:16 |
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| _Goblin | .... | Aug 19 10:17 |
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| Diablo-D3 | I didnt personally create it, gnufreex | Aug 19 10:17 |
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| DaemonFC | gnufreex: There was some discussion about Aoyumi's new block switching algorithm | Aug 19 10:17 |
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| Diablo-D3 | I just spawned the idea that such an action would be the proper course. | Aug 19 10:17 |
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| DaemonFC | it's designed to give similar results to Nero's AAC encoder | Aug 19 10:17 |
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| DaemonFC | but to work around the patents involved | Aug 19 10:17 |
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| gnufreex | I fail to see how that is trolling.... :-) | Aug 19 10:18 |
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| DaemonFC | whether or not it does is an issue for the lawyers :P | Aug 19 10:18 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Ray McGovern: How many lives will WikiLeaks save? http://bit.ly/9qLP9M | Aug 19 10:18 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: How Many Lives Will WikiLeaks Save? | World | AlterNet .::. Size~: 95.81 KB | Aug 19 10:18 |
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| Diablo-D3 | gnufreex: its trolling. | Aug 19 10:18 |
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| gnufreex | I thougt trolling is doing something unconstructive | Aug 19 10:19 |
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| gnufreex | Iritating people and baiting them to respond | Aug 19 10:19 |
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| Diablo-D3 | trolling CAN be unconstructive | Aug 19 10:20 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and even destructive | Aug 19 10:20 |
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| gnufreex | Right. | Aug 19 10:21 |
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| Diablo-D3 | but it doesnt have to be | Aug 19 10:21 |
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| *_Goblin has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) | Aug 19 10:21 |
| *_Goblin (~goblin@178.100.227.72) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 10:26 |
| _Goblin | damn 3g on train.... | Aug 19 10:27 |
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| _Goblin | not always ideal for irc | Aug 19 10:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | :) | Aug 19 10:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: openvpn might fix that | Aug 19 10:29 |
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| _Goblin | hi! | Aug 19 10:29 |
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| _Goblin | true. | Aug 19 10:29 |
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| _Goblin | its still quite good though considering I'm on an HTC. | Aug 19 10:30 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @romenesko: AP tells its journalists to avoid using "Ground Zero mosque." http://journ.us/akZKTe About time they introduced a basic fact | Aug 19 10:31 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @harrymccracken: "The Tragic Death of Practically Everything" may be the best-received thing I ever wrote: http://wp.me/pg9un-8bp | Aug 19 10:33 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: The Tragic Death of Practically Everything .::. Size~: 96.18 KB | Aug 19 10:33 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] It's stressfull to know you're surely needed at work but more important, and not quite schedulable, events drastically take over your life. | Aug 19 10:34 |
| DaemonFC | these speakers are a lot better than the ones they replaced (that or my hearing has improved with age) | Aug 19 10:38 |
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| DaemonFC | Vorbis q5 was indistinguishable from the CD on the old set, but these are more like q8 = the CD | Aug 19 10:39 |
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| DaemonFC | What kind of speakers could have come with a Mac that were so bad that 128k AAC was competitive? | Aug 19 10:40 |
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| *DaemonFC shudders | Aug 19 10:40 |
| *_Goblin (~goblin@178.100.227.72) has left #boycottnovell | Aug 19 10:40 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Google targeting Apple iPad with Chrome tablet? http://bit.ly/c9b3Bq It sure looks like it. #Apple #iPad #Chrome #Google #Linux | Aug 19 10:41 |
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| DaemonFC | I suspect that Crapple was trying to pass off 128k AAC as acceptable quality to make it look like the ipod stored more music | Aug 19 10:41 |
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| DaemonFC | but then a few Mac users out there had hi-fi systems and started bitching | Aug 19 10:41 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 10:41 |
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| DaemonFC | I've had my own codec war with these new speakers | Aug 19 10:45 |
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| DaemonFC | it involved briefly installing itunes so I could borrow its AAC encoder | Aug 19 10:45 |
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| DaemonFC | it still loses to LAME by non-trivial margins even in a blind test | Aug 19 10:46 |
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| DaemonFC | Nero did a little better | Aug 19 10:46 |
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| DaemonFC | it's kind of funny that they're still positioning it as a step up from MP3 based on the fact that the bitstream format is theoretically superior | Aug 19 10:47 |
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| DaemonFC | it doesn't matter if no encoder is taking advantage of that | Aug 19 10:47 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Vorschlag fuer Grundgesetz: "Die Würde der Hauswand ist unantastbar." #streetview #germanfail | Aug 19 10:48 |
| DaemonFC | my general conclusion is that Nero and Apple AAC have fewer failure cases than Lame MP3, but when they do fail, it's more noticeable and far more annoying | Aug 19 10:48 |
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| DaemonFC | jono doesn't fear, because Canonical is a software freedom surrender monkey with MPEG-4 patent licenses | Aug 19 10:50 |
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| DaemonFC | they can always just build (their own) Firefox and Chromium to accept MPEG-4 formats | Aug 19 10:50 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Pourquoi il faut protéger Wikileaks http://bit.ly/cVOnGW | Aug 19 10:51 |
| DaemonFC | I have a feeling that's why they went ahead and just paid the royalties | Aug 19 10:54 |
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| DaemonFC | they can later just use it as another stick to beat other distros with | Aug 19 10:54 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Is "cloud consultant" the new name for meteorology? | Aug 19 10:55 |
| *DaemonFC appoints jono as the official bloody expensive Ubuntu One Fog Consultant | Aug 19 10:55 |
| DaemonFC | \don't screw it up now :) | Aug 19 10:56 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Do I create a private cloud when I smoke a cigarette? | Aug 19 10:56 |
| DaemonFC | gnufreex can be the Assistant Deputy Backup Fog Consultant | Aug 19 10:56 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 10:56 |
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| *DaemonFC would rather use tarballs and patch files than trust Launchpad not to twiddle his bits | Aug 19 10:58 |
| gnufreex | DaemonFC: I don't understand french, what is this about? | Aug 19 10:59 |
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| DaemonFC | jono: Can you comment on the relative merit of paying $120 a year for 10 GB of storage you can't trust? | Aug 19 10:59 |
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| DaemonFC | given that a 1.5 TB external USB hard drive is about $100, once | Aug 19 11:00 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 11:00 |
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| jono | DaemonFC, one mo, on the phone | Aug 19 11:00 |
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| DaemonFC | gnufreex: Canonical has an MPEG 4 license | Aug 19 11:00 |
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| gnufreex | Yeah, I know. | Aug 19 11:01 |
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| DaemonFC | so they can ship their own MPEG-4 decoder or encoder software built against anything in Ubuntu | Aug 19 11:01 |
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| DaemonFC | and ship it like that in the default CD if they want | Aug 19 11:01 |
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| gnufreex | And other distros don't have it.. I get it. | Aug 19 11:01 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah, basically | Aug 19 11:01 |
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| DaemonFC | it's another step towards Cheap Mac/Windows | Aug 19 11:02 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Oracle Takes Aim at VMware http://is.gd/ep1bs It seems Oracle wants to be an enterprise virtualization player too. | Aug 19 11:02 |
| gnufreex | I never liked Canonical. | Aug 19 11:02 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Oracle Takes Aim at VMware | CTO Edge .::. Size~: 26 KB | Aug 19 11:02 |
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| gnufreex | I prefer Red Hat and Fedora. | Aug 19 11:02 |
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| DaemonFC | they bought the licenses to put on the back burner and wait to see where HTML 5 video ends up | Aug 19 11:02 |
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| DaemonFC | that way it looks like they made a token effort to avoid implementing MPEG-4 | Aug 19 11:02 |
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| DaemonFC | then sometime next year they'll end up shipping MPEG-4 builds of web browsers and media players and such | Aug 19 11:03 |
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| DaemonFC | and say they had no choice | Aug 19 11:03 |
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| gnufreex | Then I will delete Ubuntu form the rest of my computers | Aug 19 11:04 |
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| gnufreex | And only use Fedora and CentOS. And maybe Debian. | Aug 19 11:04 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] Saying hi to @KEHgray, a community organizer par excellence! | Aug 19 11:05 |
| gnufreex | This is no better than Novell deal. It is patent discrimination against comunity. | Aug 19 11:05 |
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| DaemonFC | they deflected a lot of criticism over their promotion of MP3 | Aug 19 11:05 |
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| DaemonFC | just because anyone can use the Fluendo MP3 decoder | Aug 19 11:05 |
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| DaemonFC | the kicker with the Fluendo decoder is that you have to use the binary from Fluendo or else the patent license doesn't cover you | Aug 19 11:06 |
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| gnufreex | It is Ok those decoders to be available, (because ther is no choice) but if they push it in default install and promote propriatary standards, then it's good bye | Aug 19 11:06 |
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| DaemonFC | if you download the provided source code from them and build it yourself, it's not licensed | Aug 19 11:06 |
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| DaemonFC | so basically if Fluendo doesn't support your OS/architecture combo, you're shit out of luck | Aug 19 11:07 |
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| DaemonFC | and have no way to install a licensed decoder | Aug 19 11:07 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] This fucking nurse is an idiot + last minute complications due to unexplained delays. Hope the rest goes well or 'There will be blood'! | Aug 19 11:08 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Did the vulcano in Iceland create the biggest public cloud? | Aug 19 11:09 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Is the US in danger of drifting into a military dictatorship? http://bit.ly/bNoimK | Aug 19 11:13 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @jwildeboer Did the vulcano in Iceland create the biggest public cloud? | Aug 19 11:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @agunn: Don't want your privacy violated by Facebook Places? How to opt out: http://blog.seattlepi.com/hottopics/archives/218655.asp | Aug 19 11:14 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Don't want to play in Facebook Places? Here's how to opt out .::. Size~: 56.55 KB | Aug 19 11:14 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] I honestly wasn't stressed about the birth 'till this fucking thing... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr! | Aug 19 11:16 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] War dividend - http://bit.ly/ayiNa5 important lesson: given peace and quiet, fisheries *do* recover #fishing | Aug 19 11:22 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Fisheries biology: War dividend | The Economist .::. Size~: 47 KB | Aug 19 11:22 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Writing along to the music of Counting Crows. http://countingcrows.com/ | Aug 19 11:28 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Could The Legality Of Google's Cache Kill Righthaven's Copyright Claims? http://dlvr.it/40dfr | Aug 19 11:28 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Could The Legality Of Google's Cache Kill Righthaven's Copyright Claims? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 22.63 KB | Aug 19 11:28 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] RT @planet_lois 1 in 5 Americans think the President is a Muslim. 4 in 5 Americans are tired of putting up with the 1 in 5 being an idiot. | Aug 19 11:33 |
| jono | DaemonFC, sorry was away | Aug 19 11:34 |
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| jono | what were you talking about $120/year? | Aug 19 11:34 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @jwildeboer RT @planet_lois 1 in 5 Americans think the President is a Muslim. 4 in 5 Americans are tired of putting up with the 1 in ... | Aug 19 11:36 |
| DaemonFC | the Ubuntu Fog | Aug 19 11:37 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Pat Tillman's death (http://bit.ly/cCwHyw ) is an example of an event missing from the War Diary http://bit.ly/buPyez | Aug 19 11:49 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Diary Dig -- Afghan War Diaries explorer .::. Size~: 44.92 KB | Aug 19 11:49 |
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| DaemonFC | jono: It seems like carrying around a $100 1.5 TB external USB hard driver is faster and more guaranteed way to back up or carry files around | Aug 19 11:50 |
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| DaemonFC | than hoping nothing bad happens to Amazon's (Ubuntu One) servers that eats my data | Aug 19 11:50 |
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| DaemonFC | and hoping I have a fast internet connection wherever I need my files | Aug 19 11:51 |
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| DaemonFC | and 1.5 TB > 10 GB | Aug 19 11:51 |
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| jono | DaemonFC, it is indeed | Aug 19 11:51 |
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| DaemonFC | plus I don't give the FBI my data on a silver platter jsu because they sent a "National Security Letter" to Amazon | Aug 19 11:51 |
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| DaemonFC | right? | Aug 19 11:52 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 11:52 |
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| DaemonFC | I mean, the FBI has obviously abused those | Aug 19 11:52 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post | My Thumbdrive http://bit.ly/cLfbCe | Aug 19 11:52 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: My Thumbdrive | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 21.94 KB | Aug 19 11:52 |
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| DaemonFC | even in cases unrelated to terrorism | Aug 19 11:52 |
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| DaemonFC | and aside from the fact that it contradicts the Fourth Amendment to the US constitution | Aug 19 11:52 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Wow, Chris Anderson, author of The Long Tail and editor of Wired likes my book The Art Of Community - http://is.gd/ep4oR | Aug 19 11:53 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Chris Anderson: What I Read | The Atlantic Wire .::. Size~: 45.72 KB | Aug 19 11:53 |
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| DaemonFC | Actually, it violates the First Amendment as well | Aug 19 11:53 |
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| DaemonFC | because if it was an actual warrant, you can tell other people that you got served with it | Aug 19 11:53 |
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| DaemonFC | but NSLs don't allow you to do that | Aug 19 11:53 |
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| DaemonFC | the only way you couldn't tell someone you were served with an actual warrant which was issued by an actual court is if the judge imposes a gag order on you | Aug 19 11:54 |
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| DaemonFC | NSL's are basically above the law | Aug 19 11:54 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: have you read any Kafka? | Aug 19 11:54 |
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| DaemonFC | and outside any kind of judicial review process | Aug 19 11:54 |
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| DaemonFC | no | Aug 19 11:54 |
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| FurnaceBoy | might be worth trying. | Aug 19 11:55 |
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| FurnaceBoy | puts the banality of it in perspective | Aug 19 11:55 |
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| DaemonFC | I think NSL's were mostly stricken down by a Federal appeals court in 2007 | Aug 19 11:55 |
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| DaemonFC | but that ruling technically only applies in areas of the US that court has jurisdiction over | Aug 19 11:55 |
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| DaemonFC | and could conceivably be overturned if the Supreme Court ever agreed to hear the case | Aug 19 11:56 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Another kind Art of Community review - http://is.gd/ep4AG - thanks! | Aug 19 11:56 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Rafael Dohms » Review: The Art of Community Jono Bacon .::. Size~: 51.83 KB | Aug 19 11:56 |
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| DaemonFC | generally when something like that happens, the government ceases to enforce the law in question in order to fight it later by shopping the courts | Aug 19 11:56 |
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| DaemonFC | or they limit their enforcement of that law to situations that would not provoke the Supreme Court to review it | Aug 19 11:57 |
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| DaemonFC | so the threat remains unless and until the Supreme Court hears the case and strikes those provisions for good | Aug 19 11:57 |
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| DaemonFC | by hosting the Ubuntu One "cloud" on Amazon servers in the US, Canonical/Ubuntu is subjecting non-US citizens to warrantless FBI searches | Aug 19 11:59 |
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| DaemonFC | through the National Security Letters | Aug 19 11:59 |
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| DaemonFC | even if their own government would have refused to turn over the data | Aug 19 11:59 |
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| DaemonFC | so unless you're comfortable emailing the FBI everything you put on your Ubuntu One "cloud", don't put it there | Aug 19 12:00 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 12:00 |
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| jono | DaemonFC, just don't use it :-) | Aug 19 12:01 |
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| jono | simple :) | Aug 19 12:01 |
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| DaemonFC | listen to the tool! | Aug 19 12:01 |
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| DaemonFC | -Jack Sparrow | Aug 19 12:02 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 12:02 |
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| DaemonFC | We need to pitch in and send jono one of these | Aug 19 12:03 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/tool-not-the-band-im-just-a-tool/ | Aug 19 12:03 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: T-Shirt Hell :: Shirts :: TOOL (NOT THE BAND, I'M JUST A TOOL) .::. Size~: 16.27 KB | Aug 19 12:03 |
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| jono | DaemonFC, hehe | Aug 19 12:04 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] Does the Cloud Render CIOs Irrelevant? http://is.gd/ep5bZ | Aug 19 12:04 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] I hate Jorge Castro. He met Dave Mustaine. #castrosucks | Aug 19 12:04 |
| *cubevector has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Aug 19 12:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW: Interrupted service will be as normal as possible. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/541665.html | Aug 19 12:15 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: reddragdiva | Interrupted service will be as normal as possible. .::. Size~: 15.68 KB | Aug 19 12:15 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[ender2070/@ender2070] I am an MCITP now, does that make me more credible when discussing microsoft's broken technology? or less? | Aug 19 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | jono: Don't hate Castro, that's a hate crime mi compadre! :P | Aug 19 12:26 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 12:26 |
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| DaemonFC | Dispara al hombre por burlarse del presidente Bacon | Aug 19 12:31 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 12:31 |
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| *cubevector (~cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 12:33 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] Is a meteorologist a cloud analyst? | Aug 19 12:37 |
| jono | DaemonFC, LOL | Aug 19 12:37 |
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| ThistleWeb | not to be confused with a metrologist, who just has an unhealthy obsession witht he underground rail network | Aug 19 12:38 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Fox's Response To 'Vampires Suck' Leak Makes Even Less Sense Than Response To 'Wolverine Leak' http://dlvr.it/40lXn | Aug 19 12:43 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Fox's Response To 'Vampires Suck' Leak Makes Even Less Sense Than Response To 'Wolverine Leak' | Techdirt .::. Size~: 22.3 KB | Aug 19 12:43 |
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| DaemonFC | jono: I think schestowitz's expectations have been set so low by Novell that he'll continue to defend you until he wakes up and sees Jono Bacon, MVP | Aug 19 12:48 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 12:48 |
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| DaemonFC | just keep it like a few millimeters on this side of that line and he'll keep rooting for you | Aug 19 12:48 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: I never got what's MVP? | Aug 19 12:52 |
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| gnufreex | Most valauble player? | Aug 19 12:52 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: Microsoft something professional | Aug 19 12:52 |
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| DaemonFC | Most Valuable Professional | Aug 19 12:53 |
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| DaemonFC | for helping to entrap people in Microsoft products | Aug 19 12:53 |
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| DaemonFC | and generally providing free Microsoft tech support | Aug 19 12:53 |
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| sebsebseb | So has this channel stopped being publically logged or? | Aug 19 12:54 |
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| *schestowitz (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 12:54 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Aug 19 12:54 |
| sebsebseb | hi schestowitz | Aug 19 12:54 |
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| DaemonFC | sebsebseb: It's basically cheaper for them to send you out free copies of their software so you can be familiar with it and "help others" | Aug 19 12:55 |
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| DaemonFC | than it is to pay actual tech support people | Aug 19 12:55 |
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| DaemonFC | The first thing Microsoft tech support asks you is who you actually bought Windows from, and if it came with the PC, they make you call the company that made the PC | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: It not cheaper, it is free for them | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| DaemonFC | the idea is that then it's the OEM's problem to pay tech support agents | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| DaemonFC | and the company even pays Microsoft for their training | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: right well | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| sebsebseb | yeah | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Microsoft doesn't pay for Windows, software has no economics of scale | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| sebsebseb | Microsoft give out their stuff free to students | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| sebsebseb | to lock them in | Aug 19 12:56 |
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| DaemonFC | gnufreex: It does actually | Aug 19 12:57 |
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| *Disconnected (Network is unreachable). | Aug 19 13:13 |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 13:13:26 2010 |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:57:07] <sebsebseb>get the Educational Establishmetns using their stuff, and yeah |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:57:16] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: CDs only |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:57:19] <DaemonFC>even with FOSS, it does mostly |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:57:40] <DaemonFC>a company isn't going to pay someone to put something into Linux that's not useful to them or their own customers |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:57:44] <DaemonFC>for example |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:10] <DaemonFC>so it has to be useful to X number of people in order to justify the cost of paying someone to put it in the FOSS project |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:11] <sebsebseb>and Oracale can't realy profit off OpenSolaris |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:13] <sebsebseb>so yep bye bye it went |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:29] Joinschestowitz_log has joined this channel (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:29] ModeChanServ gives channel operator privileges to schestowitz_log. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:37] <sebsebseb>there we go |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:44] <sebsebseb>schestowitz and schestowitz_log are back |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:50] <DaemonFC>I think Sun figured that they'd get all kinds of people lining up to build Solaris for them if they propped up OpenSolaris |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:58:53] <DaemonFC>and it just never happened |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:08] <gnufreex>sebsebseb: OpenSolaris went because Oralce wants to make Soalaris a high end exotics, so it can put huge price. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:15] <DaemonFC>there's no reason to keep OpenSolaris going if it's just a publicly available source code repo that only really benefits competitors |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:20] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: it was happening. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:25] <sebsebseb>gnufreex: they will have a freeware version yeah |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:30] <sebsebseb>as well |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:33] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: Sun's open strategy was probably their last chance. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:36] <sebsebseb>thats very propritary to have a freeware version |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:39] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: Oracle sealed their fate |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:40] <sebsebseb>rather than open source version |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:48] <gnufreex>sebsebseb: Solaris Expres will be cripled |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [20:59:56] <sebsebseb>gnufreex: yep it will suck probably |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:10] <FurnaceBoy>yes, it's game over for Solaris |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:18] <sebsebseb>I have never used OpenSolaris or did I vm something, well I think I had nexentraos in vm befoer maybe |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:22] <DaemonFC>Solaris is a legacy product either way |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:23] <sebsebseb>well they aren't realy home user os's |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:27] <FurnaceBoy>except perhaps for enterprise holdouts, who will continue to pay through the nose |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:28] <DaemonFC>it's better than Linux in a number of ways |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:36] <DaemonFC>but not enough better to justify the high price |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:36] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: wow, really. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:42] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: you talk a lot about stuff you don't use... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:52] <gnufreex>sebsebseb: It is not true tha Oralce couldn't make money from OpenSolaris. They didn't want to. They can make more money while is closed, even if it kills it eventualy. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:00:55] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: there was no high price on OpenSolaris, and Solaris support was very cheap. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:05] <FurnaceBoy>gnufreex: I agree |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:09] <FurnaceBoy>gnufreex: but it's dead now |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:12] <DaemonFC>yeah, but it only runs well on SPARC |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:16] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: that's bullshit |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:19] Quittessier_ has left this server (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:21] <DaemonFC>try finding drivers for random x86 PC crap |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:24] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: you don't know much about Solaris. why talk about it? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:40] <DaemonFC>Solaris for x86 is just a bad port |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:44] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: rubbish |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:50] <DaemonFC>they'd be better off killing it and selling it only on SPARC |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:01:51] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: how would you know? you don't run it. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:02] <DaemonFC>I've tried it out |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:03] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: it's not meant to run on random whitebox crap. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:06] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: it's an integrated system |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:11] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: sold with Sun hw and Sun support |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:14] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: Solaris on x86 works fine. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:14] <DaemonFC>when you don't even support basic e1000 drivers, you suck |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:15] Notice-BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [ml2mst] All right, I just backed up all my data (all machines) to a external 1,5 TiB USB HDD. This means unlimited "distro hopping" in Extacy :-) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:15] <DaemonFC>sorry |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:15] <sebsebseb>FurnaceBoy: whitebox what do you mean? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:18] <FurnaceBoy>gnufreex: thankyou |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:30] <FurnaceBoy>sebsebseb: random PC hw |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:44] <sebsebseb>FurnaceBoy: yeah I thought thats what you meant |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:45] <DaemonFC>yeah, there's only a billion motherboards out there that need the e1000 driver |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:52] <DaemonFC>and have no ethernet fuinctionality without it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:52] <sebsebseb>yeah Solaris and OpenSolaris are server OS's |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:54] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: drop it. you don't run SOlaris. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:57] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: some of us do |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:02:57] <DaemonFC>including "server" motherboards |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:09] <DaemonFC>Solaris on x86 simply sucks |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:12] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: you're only making foolish statements |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:14] <DaemonFC>even basic drivers are MIA |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:19] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: see above |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:21] <sebsebseb>DaemonFC: Solaris isn't meant to run on x86 as far as I know |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:28] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: you don't seem to understand what Solaris is |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:30] <DaemonFC>there's no making excuses for it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:33] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: Drivers support is diferent issue. If you buy certified server, it will work. Bussines dont but random servers. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:34] <DaemonFC>because there is no excuse for it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:45] <sebsebseb>DaemonFC: Solaris as far as I know is only really meant to run on Sun hardware |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:46] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: eh? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:03:55] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: drop it, you're embarrassing yourself |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:07] <sebsebseb>FurnaceBoy: I think there has been this sort of convo in the past, between you two, :D |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:07] <DaemonFC>you'll have better luck dropping in FreeBSD on an x86 PC |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:11] <FurnaceBoy>sebsebseb: it's commercially supported, or was, on IBM, HP, maybe others too. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:13] <DaemonFC>or Linux |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:22] <DaemonFC>that's why OpenSolaris failed |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:22] <sebsebseb>FurnaceBoy: about Solaris, and DaemonFC getting it all wrong |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:23] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: YES! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:26] <DaemonFC>it's useless on common x86 PCs |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:29] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: becuase that's what they're FOR! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:52] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: nobody 's really interested in running Solaris commercially on random crappy PC hardware you bought at the CHinese grocery! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:04:58] * schestowitz_log organising |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:00] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: Windows Server has terible hardware support. It won't work on POWER, SPARC and Tilera |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:09] <DaemonFC>if you want to tie a niche OS to a niche hardware platform that you also control, of course you should be able to optimize it and provide decent support for it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:10] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: and FYI, the integrated hardware was competitively priced and so was the support. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:16] <sebsebseb>schestowitz_log: organising? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:18] <sebsebseb>schestowitz |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:18] <FurnaceBoy>gnufreex: touche |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:25] <DaemonFC>moving out onto an open platform like x86 PC with niche OS like SOlaris is just destined for failure |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:05:27] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: which is what they did. Next topic. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:01] <sebsebseb>DaemonFC: Solaris was never meant to become really, realy popular, as far as I know |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:10] <DaemonFC>their problem is that x86 Linux is dominating because x86 hardware is cheap and there's plenty of vendors who make hardware for it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:18] <DaemonFC>and the profit was never really in the software for them anyway |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:24] <FurnaceBoy>of course. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:29] <sebsebseb>and Windows runs on PC's |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:37] <DaemonFC>so I think Solaris is fucked no matter what happens |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:39] <sebsebseb>and yeah most computers sold are PC's and uh |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:43] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: the OpenSolaris strategy was about adoption. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:46] <DaemonFC>that's why they're going SCO with patent lawsuits |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:55] <DaemonFC>patents are probably the only thing left aside from a legacy UNIX |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:06:59] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: Oracle has killed all of it. scorched earth. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:04] Join_Goblin has joined this channel (~goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:15] <sebsebseb>Hi _Goblin |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:16] <sebsebseb>:) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:22] <_Goblin>Hi! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:29] <_Goblin>How are you? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:37] <sebsebseb>okish |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:07:50] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: You say that x86 is open platform? Lets say I have a FAB in my garage, I want to buld CPUs. I have choice of OPenSPARC, OpenRISC and MIPS. No x86 |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:08] <FurnaceBoy>gnufreex: i'd like some high threads SPARC. :) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:16] <_Goblin>I met Roy in person today/yesterday |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:23] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: yeah someone said something like that |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:24] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: lucky you |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:31] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: first time you meet him or? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:36] <_Goblin>very decent evening... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:08:54] <_Goblin>shame it was so late at night and I had work early in the morning. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:02] <sebsebseb>he stayed with you? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:05] <_Goblin>running off about 3 hours sleep at the moment. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:12] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: I would like too, but I don't have real FAB, I am only trollind Deamon :( |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:25] <_Goblin>sebsebseb: yeah, I live near Luton Airport, so it was easier. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:32] <sebsebseb>why did you meet Roy? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:39] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: oh he came on the plane or? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:09:47] <_Goblin>sebsebseb: he's away and was flying from Luton this morning. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:00] <sebsebseb>Why? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:16] <_Goblin>holiday/visiting relatives. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:21] <sebsebseb>oh |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:26] <sebsebseb>so first time you meet Roy? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:35] <_Goblin>it was very strange, because when I met him it was like we had known each other years... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:53] <sebsebseb>well you have |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:10:54] <_Goblin>had a great talk.....even the wife was interested! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:09] JoinDaemonFC1 has joined this channel (~Ryan@99.37.244.106). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:14] <sebsebseb>well you have known Roy online for years? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:21] QuitDaemonFC has left this server (Disconnected by services). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:28] NickDaemonFC1 is now known as DaemonFC. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:41] <_Goblin>yeah...although is IRC a good way to know someone? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:43] * sebsebseb might meet _Goblin some time |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:11:57] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: yes |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:02] <DaemonFC>It's getting harder to find routers that don't use Linux :( |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:02] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: it is a good way to get to know someone |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:05] <_Goblin>I have an open house....anyone who wants to visit is welcome. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:15] Notice-BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [thistleweb] Americans learn nothing from history, Republicans / Tebaggers & Neocons, repeat bullshit until it sinks in as fact http://bit.ly/bsGG1d |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:17] <TechrightsBot>Title: Barack Obama believed to be a Muslim by one fifth of Americans | World news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 72.71 KB |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:25] <DaemonFC>the damned thing is full of bugs, either it just magically decides to flip on the wireless antenna all by itself out of nowhere |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:37] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: well some time I will I guess :) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:40] <DaemonFC>or it decides to quite responding or reboot itself |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:45] <DaemonFC>:P |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:12:56] <_Goblin>sebsebseb: welcome anytime.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:17] <DaemonFC>it has a mind of it's own |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:19] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: online is a way to get to know people |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:25] <sebsebseb>_Goblin: also certain people, find their partners online |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:28] <DaemonFC>it makes that Linksys piece of shit look good |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:41] <DaemonFC>*quit |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:41] Jointessier_ has joined this channel (~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [21:13:58] <_Goblin>sebsebseb: yeah, its just you always wonder what someone is really like in real life as text can sometimes be misunderstood. |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 13:13:40 2010 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Aug 19 13:13 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell for http://TechRights.org | Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those who oppose software freedom :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell-social | Aug 19 13:13 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Thu May 6 16:19:56 2010 | Aug 19 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | *quit | Aug 19 13:13 |
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| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Aug 19 13:13 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: yeah, its just you always wonder what someone is really like in real life as text can sometimes be misunderstood. | Aug 19 13:13 |
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| *DaemonFC wishes the Linksys piece of shit had a built in ADSL modem so he could throw this thing in the trash | Aug 19 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 13:14 |
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| MinceR | OpenSlowLarry's was their last chance to keep SlowLarry's up-to-date and relevant, but LawSuit Larry blew it | Aug 19 13:14 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: I have meet a few people from the net before | Aug 19 13:14 |
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| _Goblin | Roy is a complete gentleman, and very interesting. | Aug 19 13:14 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: They're no good on the x86 PC | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| DaemonFC | and they can't keep selling SPARC | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| DaemonFC | because of.... | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.savingadvice.com/images/blog/generic-beer.jpg | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| DaemonFC | Linux | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| MinceR | also, 4 minutes of lag really sucks | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: what did you chat about? | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: just stuff on IRC, what I do for a living...(not sure it was what roy expected!) and life in general... | Aug 19 13:15 |
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| sebsebseb | oh ok | Aug 19 13:16 |
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| DaemonFC | Linux is less reliable on x86 than the other ports I've used | Aug 19 13:16 |
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| DaemonFC | (MIPS and PPC) | Aug 19 13:16 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well this is the modern world | Aug 19 13:16 |
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| DaemonFC | I think it goes back to the broad range of PC hardware vs. a few devices in some company's black box | Aug 19 13:17 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: whats sad though is when people, only have online, to well have anything close to friendship | Aug 19 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | sebsebseb: lovely bloke and lovely family that _Goblin | Aug 19 13:17 |
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| DaemonFC | Even Linux works better when they only have to write drivers for a few well known devices than when you can just stuff any random thing in the box | Aug 19 13:17 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: so the logs messed up didn't they or? | Aug 19 13:17 |
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| _Goblin | schestowitz: So you arrived safely!...great...hope you come over again. | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| schestowitz | I'm still getting everything hooked up here | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] FOIA end times: DHS diverted hundreds of requests for "political review" | AP http://bit.ly/94EeUh | Aug 19 13:18 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: The Associated Press: AP IMPACT: A political filter for info requests .::. Size~: 18.09 KB | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| *FurnaceBoy tases DaemonFC | Aug 19 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Saw your highlighted message, not context yet | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Where did you go? | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Even my shotgun has a further effective range than that toy | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no, tessier takes the logs in the mean time | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| schestowitz | brb | Aug 19 13:18 |
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| sebsebseb | so is tessier a bot? | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| schestowitz | One of my monitors just blew up | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| DaemonFC | you're talking about the petty dictator toy that police use on unarmed old ladies and belligerent college students who are already drunk anyway | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| schestowitz | Bad fuse | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: It is not Linux that is less reliable. It is x86. | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| schestowitz | So I need to get 2 more | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: yeah x86 sucks apparently | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: PPC is meant to be a bit better apparently | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| FurnaceBoy | ... | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| DaemonFC | sebsebseb: It's difficult to support because there's a broader range of devices for it | Aug 19 13:19 |
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| DaemonFC | and most of those tend to be designed around Windows | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: let's not confuse all the various markets here. | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: yes? | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| sebsebseb | @ that .... | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the consumer market is not even about Linux or Solaris | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's not a statement you can make without massive qualification | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| *sebsebseb thinks DaemonFC loves Windows! :D | Aug 19 13:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC is sort of exposing the problem with the generalisation | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| gnufreex | It is phucken WIndoze still :( | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| sebsebseb | thats a sort of joke, but I guess you do realyl DaemonFC | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| DaemonFC | Nvidia's PC chipsets needs some level of WMI support in the OS | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: he still thinks Windows is relevant. | Aug 19 13:20 |
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| DaemonFC | even if you're not using Windows | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: without massive qualification? | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes. what market segment do you mean? | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| DaemonFC | So large parts of WMI are re-implemented on Linux | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| DaemonFC | if only to support things like video cards and wireless chipsets and sound cards | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: if you mean random consumer stuff, then of course you have a point, sort of, but the causes are fuzzy | Aug 19 13:21 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uh? to me its just some geeks, going on about what hardware type is the best :D however maybe PPC is better since thats what Macs used to have, but now they are basically PC's sine Intel | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: well, there is no 'best'. | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: there are only different markets | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: What parts of WMI are in Linux? | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| gnufreex | DRI is not WMI | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: each market has its own expectations and leaders | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: of course the x86 consumer world (and windows) is a complete joke to those spec'ing servers | Aug 19 13:22 |
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| DaemonFC | http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=wmi-client | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Ubuntu -- Package Search Results -- wmi-client .::. Size~: 7.12 KB | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Twitter's "Who to follow" recommending I follow Bill Gates.......I won't comment on that further... | Aug 19 13:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: but your grandma won't want to run a SPARC rack in her study | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| DaemonFC | http://mjg59.livejournal.com/106456.html | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: mjg59: Nnngh. .::. Size~: 38.27 KB | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: no surely you mean, the Windows being the OS most used on a PC, is a complete joke, to nearly anyone, who knows how to use a PC/x86 reasonably properly? | Aug 19 13:23 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: so all of these statements have to be qualified by "what market are we talking about" | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: sure, but do you mean, kids, developers, web surfers, gamers, who? | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: most ppl don't even know there's anything BUT windows | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| DaemonFC | "Nvidia have a magic communication channel between the system firmware and the graphcis hardware. It's based on WMI and bonghits, and it's not documented." | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| sebsebseb | Windows as an OS is pretty sucky, but most hardware drivers for a PC is made for it, and most software, since the amount of market share it has | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| sebsebseb | so technically Windows is pretty sucky | Aug 19 13:24 |
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| sebsebseb | for useage, once security has been taken care of properly, its not really bad | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: sure, for consumer market. | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | just remember that any statement like this has to be contextualised | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| sebsebseb | for desktop useage sure | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | as there is no single 'market' for computing. there are dozens. | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| sebsebseb | for a server, uhmm WIndows serer is a joke really I guess | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | even for desktops... | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| sebsebseb | Linux, Unix :) | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| tessier | sebsebseb: I am not a bot. But my IRC client is logging. | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: you could probably easily name 30 different markets with a little thought | Aug 19 13:25 |
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| sebsebseb | tessier: yes I thought you might have been a person | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| sebsebseb | tessier: after seeing the name | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| DaemonFC | large scale server deployments tend to run Linux | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| tessier | Large scale deployments are too expensive running much else. | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: uhmm most of the Internet runs Linux as far as I know | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| tessier | You going to license 10,000 copies of Windows 7? | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| gnufreex | Windows was never ready for deskop. Microsoft just managed to set low standard | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| DaemonFC | Windows Server can get you by if you don't ask much of it and don't mind wiping its ass | Aug 19 13:26 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: uhmm? | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| sebsebseb | the second bit | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: exactly | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| DaemonFC | security software | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| DaemonFC | applying hotfixes one by one | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | why bother | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| DaemonFC | all kinds of fun stuff | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: well there wasn't realy an OS for the PC, ok there was OS/2 | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | in the end you still are stuck with windoz | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: I mean for consumer useage | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: BeOS, NEXTSTEP | Aug 19 13:27 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: There was Amiga. | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: and probably a pile of others | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: ok to be honest that was all a bit before my computer time, I mean | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| sebsebseb | well maybe not quite | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| DaemonFC | oh, offlining the system for an hour or two every week to defrag the hard drive | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: shoudl be coeval with os/2 tho | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but I was a child in the 90's | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| DaemonFC | and clean up random junk that it spews everywhere | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| sebsebseb | and I did grow up with computers at school :) | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: Also, Solaris was once gret for workstations, just SunW was to expensive | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but no computer that I could use at home untill 97 | Aug 19 13:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I did too, but they were Z80, 6502 | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| sebsebseb | however yeah Windows 3.1 wasn't that great | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: BBC Micro, in the latter case | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| DaemonFC | sebsebseb: The reason that Microsoft can run their websites on Windows is because they have backup systems that take over when one system fails | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| DaemonFC | so it appears like they suffer no down time | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: which you have to do anyway | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: There was lots of computers usable at home, just too expensive. Nobody wanted to give stuff dirt cheap like Bll G | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| DaemonFC | if you're trying to run a website on Windows Server, your experience with downtime will be frequent | Aug 19 13:29 |
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| sebsebseb | however in the 90's, is when quite a lot of home users, got their first computer, and so they used what it came with | Aug 19 13:30 |
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| gnufreex | And he did it because his stuff was crap. | Aug 19 13:30 |
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| sebsebseb | computers were pretty expensive before the PC | Aug 19 13:30 |
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| sebsebseb | and even the first PC's weren't that cheap | Aug 19 13:30 |
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| DaemonFC | and Microsoft has offloaded a lot of their heavier stuff onto Linux systems | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| DaemonFC | quietly | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| DaemonFC | like having Digital River handle all the downloads they offer | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: yeah people didn't want to pay much for a computer | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| DaemonFC | (Linux) | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: and so PC with Windows for not that much | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| DaemonFC | or Akamai hosting Bing | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| DaemonFC | (Linux) | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| gnufreex | I can't think where will be today if Hurd was ready in say 1988. | Aug 19 13:31 |
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| sebsebseb | and then also bye bye those old BBC's and Achorns that the shcool had | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| sebsebseb | to be replaced with PC's running Windows | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| sebsebseb | hrm | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| DaemonFC | if they based it off 4.4BSD, it would have been finished in the early 90s | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: well, Linux is an almost best case outcome | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| DaemonFC | they decided to go for some insane unworkable complicated design | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: if it hadn't been linux it would have been *something* | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| DaemonFC | that still doesn't work | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| DaemonFC | it would have been a BSD kernel | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: right. my school had BBC Micro | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| DaemonFC | more than likely | Aug 19 13:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it requires more sophistication than that. | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| sebsebseb | as for Desktop Linux, loads of silly stuff, holding it back from gaining a more proper market share against Windows and Mac OS X, and well it may not matter that much in a few years time, I mean stuff really does seem to be starting to go mobile now | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Phew! The complications were only 'skin deep', no need for worry or 'blood'! Mom and son are perfectly fine! | Aug 19 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they could steal it and wrap the GPL around it | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| DaemonFC | like they do with lots of stuff | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no, the deisgn of Hurd would not permit that approach | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: Not quite. I read old RMS's plans and newsleters, he had great vision. But he had to give it up pecause assholes were taking over his movement. | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: right, he got distracted. | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| MinceR | if they based it off 4.4BSD, ther would be nothign interesting about it | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| DaemonFC | I mean after they gave up on HURD | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uhmm maybe thats what I mean as well, altough we just said BBC. anyway uhmm rather basic computer, had a program on it called logo | Aug 19 13:33 |
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| DaemonFC | the reason they went with Linux is because it was there and it worked | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: it was very hard to get the GPL rolling. the old Usenet discussions rehash all the same FUD we hear today... | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| DaemonFC | and it was obvious that HURD never would | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: people used to think he was insane | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: quite | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| DaemonFC | so if not Linux, it would be a BSD kernel | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | oh, i see what you mean. | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | well we have BSD *as well* | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | so we're rather fortunate, all told | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| DaemonFC | Debian with FreeBSD's kernel | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| sebsebseb | also probably really a lot of open source projects, don't go properly main streame, because of lack of money, since yeah capitlism and consumerism | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah, that's kind of freaky | Aug 19 13:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: which you can have today. or Solaris with Debian | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: (Nexenta, etc) | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| DaemonFC | it shows you how much differently things could have gone I guess | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: but we *have* all of those tihngs. | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the open world is *about* diversity | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| sebsebseb | Ubuntu might have to advertise on TV one day! | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: If RMS used TRIX instead Mach, I and made something working, I think it would be great. And real deal was idea about Lisp based GUI desktop | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| DaemonFC | right, nobody forces you to use the Linux kernel to have the rest of Debian | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| DaemonFC | which is nice | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: RMS had to give up that when Lucid forked Emacs | Aug 19 13:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yeah BBC Micro. 16K RAM, 16K ROM. language ROMs. disk. awesome system. had one at home, too. | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: awesome system? | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: that was the old thing | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| MinceR | 223354 < DaemonFC> I mean after they gave up on HURD | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes. very nicely designed. | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: when I was at school | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| MinceR | when? | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| MinceR | i didn't get the memo | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| DaemonFC | it gives you jails, and ZFS, and native support for things like NDIS | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: nicely designed how what? I don't really know much about them, and don't really remember it much now | Aug 19 13:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: designed for flexibility. and it was powerful. you could add, e.g. a Z80 or 68000 co-processor. | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| DaemonFC | and the Linuxulator is there too | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: wide range of language ROMs | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| sebsebseb | anyway DaemonFC Soalris wans't really made for you I guess :D | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| DaemonFC | so most binary Linux crap just works | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: cool games written in assembler by Acornsoft | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: high res graphics | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uh do you mean the Acorn now? | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: a significant structured BASIC | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: the BBC, was black and white | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I mean the BBC Micro | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: no | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: and then they also had Achorns | Aug 19 13:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: all BBC Micro were colour, unless you used a mono screen | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| DaemonFC | when you run a binary Linux app on FreeBSD 8.x, it will say it is Linux 2.6.18 | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: I found it, this is what I meant: http://stallman.org/articles/xemacs.origin | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| DaemonFC | their goal is to be compatible with Red Hat's Enterprise Linux kernel | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: the Acorn Atom, Electron were b&w | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: maybe we aren't on about the same computer I dont know | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I am talking about the BBC Microcomputer, model B, basically. | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I saw the earlier Acorns as well, but my school had none | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| sebsebseb | anyway its ashame really | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| sebsebseb | how | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| DaemonFC | unlike Slowlaris, you don't have to install a complete Linux distro in chroot | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| sebsebseb | there were all these old computers and such | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but then that just got replaced by WIndows PC's | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it was a very hackable system. they had LAN (ECONET) and a fileserver with security | Aug 19 13:38 |
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| sebsebseb | and so the schools only teach Windows PC now uh | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| sebsebseb | most of them | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] WikiLeaks works around censorship in Thailand | AFP http://bit.ly/94EeUh | Aug 19 13:39 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: The Associated Press: AP IMPACT: A political filter for info requests .::. Size~: 18.09 KB | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| sebsebseb | choice is good :) | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| FurnaceBoy | linux still supports Econet, hehe | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: the old Achorns they had had some good games, a golf game, and asteroides and such :) | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| DaemonFC | minimal install of Ubuntu in Solaris will give it Linux compatibility | Aug 19 13:39 |
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| DaemonFC | they suggest RHEL or CentOS, but Ubuntu works | Aug 19 13:40 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: and Pacman | Aug 19 13:40 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Not surprising | Aug 19 13:40 |
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| DaemonFC | Linux still supports Token Ring for crying out loud | Aug 19 13:40 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 13:40 |
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| DaemonFC | and Ubuntu builds it | Aug 19 13:41 |
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| DaemonFC | as a module | Aug 19 13:41 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 13:41 |
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| sebsebseb | if people went for an OS, because of what technically was the best, and also if people made software for what was technicaly the best, but also hardware, well Linux distros would so have most market share right now in like all of the computer markeks, but no it is not like this | Aug 19 13:41 |
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| DaemonFC | just to make a point about how bloated and full of useless crap Ubuntu is | Aug 19 13:41 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: well 10.04 is and 10.10 will be even more, and jono will be telling people how great that stuff is | Aug 19 13:42 |
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| sebsebseb | I mean the Gnome patching | Aug 19 13:42 |
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| sebsebseb | that goes in the desktop edition | Aug 19 13:42 |
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| sebsebseb | I haven't tried Unity, but that looks ok | Aug 19 13:42 |
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| sebsebseb | however Gnome 2 on its own isn't really changing that much when it comes to the noticeble end user features | Aug 19 13:43 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes Acornsoft did games for BBC Micro too | Aug 19 13:43 |
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| sebsebseb | so I understand where Ubuntu developers are coming from | Aug 19 13:44 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: I would disagree. The "average user" (and a massive part of the market) would neither care nor be interested in what bloat there may or may not be. I think the majority of new Ubuntu users would find the improvement from Windows massive anyway and be very happy. | Aug 19 13:44 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: agreed | Aug 19 13:44 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: its only the tech savvy which are interested in the "finer points" - most users use software "because it works" | Aug 19 13:45 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: agreed | Aug 19 13:45 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: the mission is (if you will) to get them to realize how much better than experience can be with Linux rather than a Microsoft platform. | Aug 19 13:45 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: jono would probably agree | Aug 19 13:45 |
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| sebsebseb | with that | Aug 19 13:45 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: You have seen Ubuntu's bug 1 right? | Aug 19 13:46 |
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| sebsebseb | and you DaemonFC yeah? | Aug 19 13:46 |
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| DaemonFC | compiling stuff that's only relevant on non-PC hardware in a distro that only supports the PC is ridiculous | Aug 19 13:46 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 13:46 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: if you have concrete advise on ubuntu kernel configs, why don't you put yourself in a position where you can contribute? | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | advice* | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | instead of kibitzing here | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | which achieves nothing | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: grin | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| DaemonFC | it acheieves about as much as pointing something out in Launchpad | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: but thats rediculous to you, someone in the know. Do you believe todays generation of computer users in the main, really care about the "finer points"? | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: wel I was thinking of doing :D | Aug 19 13:47 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: however I am basically trying to say here, that I agree | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | :) | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | we have to wade through all his pointless whining | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | it's a tax | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| amarsh04 | DaemonFC, I'm now listening to http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jun/08/episode-0x29-motions-judgment/ re the busybox in televisions case | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Episode 0x29: Motions for Judgment - Software Freedom Law Show - Software Freedom Law Center .::. Size~: 12.7 KB | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: in the main? the main streame you mean? average consumer computer users, that just want it all to just work? | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | of course they do | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | they paid | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| sebsebseb | and want to treat their computer like a TV | Aug 19 13:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | +1 | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| sebsebseb | when really they should be treating it like a car | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: yeah...most people just use the computer as a tool. | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| sebsebseb | as in look after security when treating like a car | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: security is our job. | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | developers | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| sebsebseb | of the OS? | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | everything | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| DaemonFC | One of the reasons Ubuntu only supports x86 and x86-64 PCs is because this way they don't have to care if the packages they use would fail to build or exhibit horrible bugs on the other bazillion CPU types that a Linux distro can support | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| DaemonFC | the community PPC builds tend to be broken quite badly | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well Microsoft fail big time for security! | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| DaemonFC | they are unofficial :D | Aug 19 13:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: of course, because they don't care. they get paid anyway. | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: they are completely disconnected from market effects. | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| sebsebseb | yeah exactly | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| sebsebseb | I guess | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| sebsebseb | and legally they don't have to try and make realy secure Windows | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| sebsebseb | since they can sell it anyway, with the security holes, and make a lot | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | the fact that they breed low expectations is an immensely profitable aspect of their strategy. | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| DaemonFC | a horrible bug in package X on Debian that only affects MIPS can keep the x86 version of that package from advancing to Testing or Stable | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | if users had high expectations, BOOM! they'd desert Microsoft. | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| sebsebseb | and then even tried to have a paid virus scanner or whatever it was, at some stage | Aug 19 13:50 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: I think the Windows 7 party ads, Kin ads et al were excellent examples of how disconnected Microsoft is from consumers. Nobody buys 1980's style PR. | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| DaemonFC | that's why they almost never release a new Stable version on a predictable time frame | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| MinceR | DaemonFC: so don't use ubuntu, use debian | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| DaemonFC | it takes a lot of work to support a dozen architectures | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: oh yeah a whole string of embarrassing ads in past year or two | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: remember the vomit one about internet security | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: Mr Creosote! | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| _Goblin | lol | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| _Goblin | just one little mint. | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: did you see that one? | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| _Goblin | its wafer thin | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: I can find a link | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| _Goblin | ... | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: I mean, the MS Vomit ad. | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| _Goblin | talking about Monty Python with Roy... | Aug 19 13:51 |
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| _Goblin | Im a big fan! | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| DaemonFC | Even Debian Testing is often far less flaky than Ubuntu's "stable" | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is bad PR for Linux | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| _Goblin | Really? | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| sebsebseb | jono: ^ | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| DaemonFC | yes | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| sebsebseb | jono: @ what DaemonFC put | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| _Goblin | so its not the distro name on most new users lips when they move from Windows? | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: I think I agree | Aug 19 13:52 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Ubuntu isn't exactly stable | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| DaemonFC | if something is broken in Ubuntu, and someone is trying Ubuntu, they'll just assume it's broken in every distro | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| _Goblin | daemonfc: its not a name that has given confidence to many to move from MS? | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| DaemonFC | and go back to Windows | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: and the hardware support is rather horrible really, I mean for the just working, or being really easy to have working, compared to other distros such as PC Linux OS it seems. | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: but people who shifted to any platform and had a bad experience will move back. | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: bingo | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: Ive seen disatisfied Apple customers moving back to Windows. | Aug 19 13:53 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: and thats what annoys me about Ubuntu, having most users | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: and the most hyped up, so the one that most users will try out first, that want to do a Linux distro | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| sebsebseb | and #ubuntu well yeah | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| sebsebseb | the three most common issues | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Yeah, admitting you paid double for a Mac just so you could run Windows 7 on it | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| DaemonFC | that has to hurt | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| *schestowitz has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | Aug 19 13:54 |
| sebsebseb | wireless didn't just work, sound didn't work, ATI graphcis card didn't work | Aug 19 13:54 |
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| *schestowitz_log has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) | Aug 19 13:55 |
| sebsebseb | wireless is better in distros such as PC Linux OS :) sound is more of an Ubuntu issue I guess, because of how they done pulse audio badly, and ATI probably isn't as bad in other distros? | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| _Goblin | daemonfc: I don't think we will ever see in our lifetime an OS that provides no problems for anyone. | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] E-Voting Machine Easily Reprogrammed To Play Pac-Man http://dlvr.it/40sPY | Aug 19 13:55 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: E-Voting Machine Easily Reprogrammed To Play Pac-Man | Techdirt .::. Size~: 24.1 KB | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| *sebsebseb has typed stuffl ike this before here, but oh well | Aug 19 13:55 |
| sebsebseb | oh wrong useage of /me I guess, ah well | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| DaemonFC | _Goblin: That fake Zune commercial starring Ballmer kind of summed Windows up well | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| DaemonFC | Welcome to the so-so | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 13:55 |
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| _Goblin | Unfortunately Microsoft has the advantage with many thinking "better the devil you know..." | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| DaemonFC | nothing it horribly broken but it's not quite optimal for any specific use case | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| DaemonFC | *is | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: to be honest uhmm | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: once security is done properly in Windows | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: which in most installs it won't be of course | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well once that, Windows isn't really bad | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| _Goblin | and its up to Linux users to show the benefits, since nobody has a PR budget of MS.... | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Better the devil that's at least consistent | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| DaemonFC | heh | Aug 19 13:56 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: remind me what PR means again? | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: the issue though would be that we have seen what happens when Microsoft rules the roost.....the end user suffers. | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| _Goblin | public relations (and I mean also advertising) | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| _Goblin | etc etc | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| sebsebseb | however Windows = propritary software | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| sebsebseb | and vender lock in | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| sebsebseb | yeah | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| sebsebseb | which isn't really a good thing either | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: I am scared to think what will happen if Micosoft get Windows workable. They made this far with complete crap... :( | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: 'end user suffers' -- understatement :-X | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| DaemonFC | I finally gave up on Windows Live Messenger | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| _Goblin | lol... | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: that's why they have to be back in the courts eventually | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| DaemonFC | every tiem it updated itself, Bing Bar and Silverlight came back | Aug 19 13:57 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: Apple would make a version for the PC? :D | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: why do you even bother with windows? | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| DaemonFC | I ended up buying a license for Trillian Pro | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: of OS X | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: that will never happen. | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: apparently they tried with OS 9 | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: no | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: and nearly became bankrupt as a result | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: I like some of the software better | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: that wasn't to sell for generic hw. | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| DaemonFC | but not Windows itself | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| DaemonFC | honest answer | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| _Goblin | I stick by my opinion that Linux and Apple forced Microsoft to re-release Vista as 7 with a few mods......I don't think Microsoft would have bothered if it hadn't seen people exercising their right to choose and going elsewhere | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: that was an early experiment to see if x86 was a viable platform for their own hw. | Aug 19 13:58 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: no | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: they would have came out with another version of Windows anyway | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: however yes 7 = Vista version 2 | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: Well, OSX is even more closed than Windows. | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| sebsebseb | also the Vista is bad stuff | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| _Goblin | after all, if everyone has your software and there is no alternative, what incentive do you have to invest more money in your product so quickly. | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| sebsebseb | there was so much of it, that even non technical people started to hear it | Aug 19 13:59 |
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| *sebsebseb was resasonably happy with Vista Home Premium, untill re instaling it wice, and both times, bye bye seperate Ext4 /home partition | Aug 19 14:00 |
| sebsebseb | it wanted to install wehre there was a partition, I said install in free space and bang | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| _Goblin | Vista was the killer for me. | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| _Goblin | up until then I was dual booting...new PC, Vista, 6 months of hell....and then a complete removal. | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| DaemonFC | Vista didn't really start to turn around until SP2 | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: Also, Mach has some flaws which I think can hamper it. It slows down when lots of drivers are loaded | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| DaemonFC | but by then it was far too late | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| sebsebseb | I wanted to destroy for fun, re install so I do that, and bye bye /home with my data, I recover stuff with test disk, but then do it again, and well coudn't recover as much the second time ti seems, but I didn't lose anything important anyway :) | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| sebsebseb | also yeah Windows is slow | Aug 19 14:00 |
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| sebsebseb | after doing updates | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| sebsebseb | when it wants to install them on shut down, uh | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: I was talking about Mach in OS X | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| DaemonFC | The thing that really killed Vista for me was how long it took to copy or move files around | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| DaemonFC | locally was painful enough | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| DaemonFC | over a network was unbearable | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| _Goblin | and also, with Windows, theres always something else to buy and always something else Microsoft want to sell you.... | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| sebsebseb | anyway my Vista install on here at the moment ,doesn't seem to work proerly, really slow to try and boot up. and well I don't have the drivers for the computer installed in it, since not sure where that CD went, but I don't think that is the issue, but ah well | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: It is hard to make mach suport lots of harware and still retain performance | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| sebsebseb | I don't really want to use Windows on here anyway :) | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: It was never done before. | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: just walk away from it | Aug 19 14:01 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: really I could remove that partition and use for something else | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's completely unnecessary and technologically irrelevant | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: having a dual boot with Windows you mean? | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's only a waste of time | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | well, i hate dual boot. but i confess i have done that to play games. | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| _Goblin | I used to cling onto Wine with a belief I would need it....How little I use it now.....probably could remove it. | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well yeah gameing was the only reason I have Vista | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: I mean if I wanted to start playing some commercial games | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| sebsebseb | that I needed Windows for | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: I have no Windows for 3 years now. | Aug 19 14:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | i never ran it, except as i say, for the occasional game | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: I have done Linux only on a computer as well, and its a nice feeling :) | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | and in an undistorted market, there would be no lockin for games to windows | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | Steam is releasing linux games now | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: I had hackintos for some time, but droped too. Just Linux now. | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | and soon OS X | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| _Goblin | gnufreex: and I expect (like me) you've being doing everything you previously did, only more trouble free and quicker? | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: well the old computer, XP would blue screen of death, Ubuntu would work fine. I knew it was probably really a hardware issue or whatever, but more fun to blame WIndows, so bye bye XP | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| DaemonFC | Steam isn't on Linux is it? | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it is now | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: and it ran Ubuntu only for quite a while, before the graphics card or whatever, really did mess up | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| DaemonFC | Phoronix lied | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| DaemonFC | just to try to spill some news first | Aug 19 14:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: sign of the times. :) | Aug 19 14:04 |
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| _Goblin | I like the comparisons they do... | Aug 19 14:04 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: good stuff *is* happening.. just slowly | Aug 19 14:04 |
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| _Goblin | Theres some great linux MORPGS about now.... | Aug 19 14:04 |
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| DaemonFC | until you can download Steam for Linux and buy actual games on it, it doesn't exist | Aug 19 14:04 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: oh Steam has a Linux version now | Aug 19 14:04 |
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| sebsebseb | jono wonders about Steam to some extent I guess | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| gnufreex | _Goblin: Yeah, everything is easier. I actualy started hating computers because of Windows, before I got into GNU/Linux. | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| sebsebseb | since Ubuntu fans have been asking him about Steam in his ustream sessions | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| DaemonFC | until Valve confirms a date when that will happen, I doubt Linux is officially on the radar | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| *FurnaceBoy tried to get Steam and Half Life 2 working under WINE. | Aug 19 14:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | I almost made it. It did install. | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: It works, it's jsut SLOW | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| DaemonFC | real slow | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | well, soon we won't need to do that :D | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| DaemonFC | Portal too | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: what is Steam anyway? | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | Valve++ | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| DaemonFC | I loved Portal | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: Valve Software | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| _Goblin | gnufreex: at the end of the day, for me nothing really changed, I was running the same packages and my Wife didn't even realize for a long while that we were running Linux instead of Windows. | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| sebsebseb | yers | Aug 19 14:05 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: they sell games from everyone, tho | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| sebsebseb | I mean what does it do | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| sebsebseb | something games, but what? | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Portal is cool. seen http://portalprelude.com ? | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| MinceR | 225835 < DaemonFC> FurnaceBoy: I like some of the software better | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| MinceR | 225840 < DaemonFC> but not Windows itself | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Portal: Prelude .::. Size~: 22.04 KB | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| MinceR | contradicts earlier trolling | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: you sure Steam isn't Ubuntu only? | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: i doubt it ? | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: the development version of Spoity, was for only Ubuntu and Debain Squeeze last time I loked | Aug 19 14:06 |
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| _Goblin | oh...mincer, meant to say...pleased to see you as mod...a good choice. | Aug 19 14:07 |
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| MinceR | :) | Aug 19 14:07 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: heh heh in a way | Aug 19 14:07 |
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| sebsebseb | and yeah MinceR is a cool dude I guess :D | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| sebsebseb | oh yeah MinceR I just thought of something | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| sebsebseb | | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| sebsebseb | MinceR: | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| sebsebseb | | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| sebsebseb | MinceR: | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| MinceR | sebsebseb: | Aug 19 14:08 |
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| sebsebseb | MinceR: except that tends to happen when I join the channel, that kind of thing | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but yeah | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| sebsebseb | MinceR: | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[glynmoody] going offline for a while (no, really): back soon... | Aug 19 14:09 |
| sebsebseb | | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: oh yeah by the way mod or moderator is a forum and op or operator is IRC | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: altough I would say mod before as well | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| sebsebseb | for IRC | Aug 19 14:09 |
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| _Goblin | ....fair point....maybe Im too tired tonight. | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: ah yes only three hours sleep for whatever reason | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| _Goblin | talking. | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: with Roy you mean? | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| _Goblin | until about 4am | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| _Goblin | yep | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| sebsebseb | oh | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| _Goblin | and then up at 8am | Aug 19 14:10 |
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| _Goblin | and to work. | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well go to bed in a bit then? | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| _Goblin | can't yet...my lads yet to settle | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: i had it the wrong way round. Steam on OS X since 12 May. On Linux soon. | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| _Goblin | he's watching Mr Tumble whilst Im on IRC | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: tomshardware article | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| DaemonFC | heh | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| DaemonFC | OS X is to Linux as...... | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: Mr Tumble? | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR? | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| DaemonFC | this should be good | Aug 19 14:11 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: ah yes you got a family | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: not just a wife | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| sebsebseb | so Roy meet | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| sebsebseb | the whole family> | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| sebsebseb | ? | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| _Goblin | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tkt7N7JFjI | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: YouTube- Justin Fletcher (Mr Tumble) in 'bee bright' .::. Size~: 99.3 KB | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| _Goblin | thats Mr Tumble... | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| DaemonFC | OS X is basically a pretty face hiding the disgustingly useless actual product | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| _Goblin | and yes, my wife et al! | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| sebsebseb | et al? and all? | Aug 19 14:12 |
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| _Goblin | yep | Aug 19 14:13 |
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| sebsebseb | only one kid? | Aug 19 14:13 |
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| _Goblin | yeah | Aug 19 14:13 |
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| _Goblin | we were fostering a relatives children for a while | Aug 19 14:13 |
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| sebsebseb | oh | Aug 19 14:13 |
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| _Goblin | but we've got a son....he's two. | Aug 19 14:14 |
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| sebsebseb | ok | Aug 19 14:14 |
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| sebsebseb | I want to start my own family as well, but don't know how he will get there, plus will need a well enough paid job and such uh. | Aug 19 14:15 |
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| sebsebseb | start my own family one day | Aug 19 14:15 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: http://twitpic.com/l4q5a - thats our lad.... | Aug 19 14:17 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: My son in high spirits after removing MONO from his favorite ... on Twitpic .::. Size~: 10.57 KB | Aug 19 14:17 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: one thing Ive learnt....You can't plan or save for a family....and you always manage no matter what your job or how well paid..... | Aug 19 14:19 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: we moved houses to a smaller property recently....and you make sacrifices.... | Aug 19 14:20 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: also I would need to find the partner first | Aug 19 14:20 |
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| sebsebseb | and that will be a problem it seems | Aug 19 14:20 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: it does help.... :) | Aug 19 14:21 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: I met my wife at a concert.... | Aug 19 14:21 |
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| sebsebseb | heh after removing Mono from his system | Aug 19 14:22 |
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| sebsebseb | nice pic and message with it | Aug 19 14:22 |
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| sebsebseb | ok meet at a concert? | Aug 19 14:22 |
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| _Goblin | yeah. | Aug 19 14:22 |
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| sebsebseb | and? | Aug 19 14:22 |
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| _Goblin | she was the first real girlfriend I'd had...(of any length of time) and then we married. I got lucky I guess! | Aug 19 14:22 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Franklin Street Statement in PDF - http://is.gd/epdBq - :-) (thanks @jdub) | Aug 19 14:23 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Franklin Street Statement PDF | Be the signal .::. Size~: 24.44 KB | Aug 19 14:23 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: ok, but why did you start having a relationship with her? and what kind of concert? | Aug 19 14:23 |
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| _Goblin | it was a rock concert (of sorts) ...got on really well... | Aug 19 14:24 |
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| sebsebseb | ok | Aug 19 14:24 |
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| _Goblin | lol....Im sure the wintrolls are going to make something of my statements. | Aug 19 14:25 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Great work on the VoIP instrument support in Jokosher - http://is.gd/epdHb - nice work Pēteris! #jokosher #gnome | Aug 19 14:25 |
| _Goblin | they always trawl the IRC logs | Aug 19 14:25 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Ubuntu Diaries: In the end - final report of my GSoC .::. Size~: 17.96 KB | Aug 19 14:25 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: You sure? | Aug 19 14:25 |
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| _Goblin | oh yes. | Aug 19 14:25 |
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| _Goblin | they like to quote. | Aug 19 14:25 |
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| sebsebseb | quote? | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| _Goblin | and like to quote out of context or imply anything that they feel will insult the person. | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| sebsebseb | on a blog? | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| _Goblin | anywhere | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| _Goblin | I get quoted about things I said two years ago by some of the more efficient wintrolls. | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| _Goblin | it only goes to prove the lengths they will go to. | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| sebsebseb | Why? Since you blog about open sourcE? | Aug 19 14:26 |
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| _Goblin | who knows the full intentions..... | Aug 19 14:27 |
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| _Goblin | maybe it is just genuinely sick people. | Aug 19 14:27 |
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| sebsebseb | well some people think this channel is a troll pit | Aug 19 14:27 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but it isn't | Aug 19 14:27 |
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| sebsebseb | :) | Aug 19 14:27 |
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| sebsebseb | Quite a lot of interesting computer people here :) | Aug 19 14:28 |
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| sebsebseb | that come here | Aug 19 14:28 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: thats the people who spread the nonsense...they lie about this channel, because the one thing more dangerous to them than FOSS is that people are getting together in communities, talking about and championing great free software. | Aug 19 14:28 |
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| sebsebseb | anyway it was actsauly, because of someone who thought this channel was a troll pit or whatever, that I found out about it originalley | Aug 19 14:28 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: the above comment was in answer to "some people think this channel is a troll pit" | Aug 19 14:29 |
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| gnufreex | _Goblin: Yeah, everything is easier. I actualy started hating computers because of Windows, before I got into GNU/Linux. | Aug 19 14:29 |
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| gnufreex | I presed up | Aug 19 14:29 |
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| gnufreex | and enter | Aug 19 14:29 |
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| _Goblin | gnufreex: I found computing less enjoyable with Windows certainly. | Aug 19 14:30 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Freda just successfully spelt then read out the word "Toby"! Here's to Thomas the Tank Engine :-D | Aug 19 14:30 |
| sebsebseb | gnufreex: indeed a Linux disros such as Ubuntu, Mandriva, or PC Linux OS, and even Mint, are much easier to use than Windows, when know the very basics, like for example how there are hidden .folders in home, and what they are for | Aug 19 14:30 |
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| sebsebseb | where as with Windows well | Aug 19 14:30 |
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| sebsebseb | good luck if you get a blue screen of death | Aug 19 14:30 |
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| sebsebseb | at finding out what means, unless your a Windows geek | Aug 19 14:30 |
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| sebsebseb | at finding out what that means | Aug 19 14:30 |
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| gnufreex | _Goblin: This was old coment i already posted :-). I presed up and enter... stupid quassel | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Secret US assassination squad Task Force 373 http://bit.ly/aCpsFM | Aug 19 14:31 |
| sebsebseb | and have fun using your anti virus and anti spyware, if you don't know how to keep Windows reasoanbly secure without | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: History News Network .::. Size~: 46.06 KB | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| _Goblin | its funny that some people say Linux is for experts, I spent more time repairing and fixing a Windows system than I ever have Linux. | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| _Goblin | gnufreex: no probs! | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| sebsebseb | agreed Windows needs more maintaince for it to run ok | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| sebsebseb | maintinance | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| sebsebseb | compared to the distros I just mentioned | Aug 19 14:31 |
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| sebsebseb | and yes actsauly even OpenSuse | Aug 19 14:32 |
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| sebsebseb | I was mentioning some newbie friendly beginner type distros | Aug 19 14:32 |
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| _Goblin | Peppermint is very good too....I featured it and interviewed the team.....nice bunch of chaps. | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: oh yeah good news | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | good news guys | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| gnufreex | Are Ubunut new themes dependant on Mono? I deleted Mono, and I got Win98 style theme | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | now I remember | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | and now i'll mention it here :) | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| cubevector | no one liked vector? | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| _Goblin | brb smoke break...... | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | right so recently on Facebook I get in contact with a girl I used to go to school with | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | and | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | it seems she wants me to teach her some computer stuff :) | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but not just yet | Aug 19 14:33 |
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| sebsebseb | ok a girl, so that could be a load of rubbish, but I don't think it is with this one | Aug 19 14:34 |
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| cubevector | picked up yet another p3 today | Aug 19 14:35 |
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| cubevector | $20 :) | Aug 19 14:35 |
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| cubevector | people are just giving p3's away | Aug 19 14:35 |
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| amarsh04 | after listening to some oggcasts from www.softwarefreedom.org I might replace the ram in my new pc with ecc ram | Aug 19 14:37 |
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| cubevector | amarsh04, read what Seymour Cray had to say about parity and memory | Aug 19 14:38 |
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| amarsh04 | no I haven't, but ecc should benefit more than parity | Aug 19 14:39 |
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| amarsh04 | s/should benefit/should be of more benefit/ | Aug 19 14:39 |
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| _Goblin | cubevector: ive had two 360's in the past...one accidently bashed into a hammer after it red ringed several times and the other has sat in our tv cabinet off for the last few years. | Aug 19 14:43 |
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| cubevector | "Seymour Cray famously said "parity is for farmers" when asked why he left this out of the CDC 6600.[8] He included parity in the CDC 7600, and reputedly said "I learned that a lot of farmers buy computers." | Aug 19 14:43 |
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| _Goblin | cubevector: i don't even use the PS3 much... | Aug 19 14:43 |
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| cubevector | _Goblin, consoles blah :) | Aug 19 14:44 |
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| amarsh04 | hehehe cubevector | Aug 19 14:44 |
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| _Goblin | cubevector: agreed....our WII I gave away..... | Aug 19 14:44 |
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| cubevector | Original IBM PC used parity checking | Aug 19 14:45 |
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| cubevector | pretty sure my Tyan Board supports ECC | Aug 19 14:45 |
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| _Goblin | my first "PC" http://www.instruction-manuals.co.uk/category/computer/Zpc2386.htm | Aug 19 14:46 |
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| amarsh04 | I think that my motherboard does... I'll take the box and motherboard manual with me to the retailer that sold it to me (and he was wearing a Ubuntu t-shirt at the time) | Aug 19 14:46 |
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| cubevector | I've had uptimes over a year with non-ECC systems | Aug 19 14:48 |
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| cubevector | not saying ECC is a bad idea though | Aug 19 14:48 |
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| amarsh04 | now that the new pc runs 4GiB RAM it seems like a good idea | Aug 19 14:48 |
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| MinceR | cubevector: rotfl | Aug 19 14:49 |
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| amarsh04 | 4 GiB on the new pc takes up less space than the 384 MiB on my old pc | Aug 19 14:51 |
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| cubevector | "For a contrary view, Seymour Cray, premier designer of supercomputers, held parity designs in contempt. He felt it showed poor design—if you designed your transmission paths to be reliable, you would not have to waste resources on parity." | Aug 19 14:53 |
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| amarsh04 | versus the "connection machine" that continually tested itself | Aug 19 14:56 |
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| DaemonFC | bad memory usually results in a string of otherwise unexplained crashes | Aug 19 14:56 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 14:56 |
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| DaemonFC | it's not a bad idea to run memtest every so often anyway | Aug 19 14:57 |
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| amarsh04 | and especially right after installing different RAM chips | Aug 19 14:59 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Yet another reason to stay away from Apple stuff, being turned into a bug to record you without your knowledge http://bit.ly/a5zKph | Aug 19 15:00 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Court OKs Covert iPhone Audio Recording .::. Size~: 139.45 KB | Aug 19 15:00 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @jcatcw: Intel/McAfee explained: It's the hardware, stupid. http://bit.ly/cLbihn Me: Security in the hardware? Eh... not a good plan. | Aug 19 15:01 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: How does Intel/McAfee make sense? I think I know... - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 73.08 KB | Aug 19 15:01 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Recording Industry Using Net Neutrality Debate To Try To Link Child Porn With Copyright Infringement Again http://dlvr.it/40zQ1 | Aug 19 15:11 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Recording Industry Using Net Neutrality Debate To Try To Link Child Porn With Copyright Infringement Again | Techdirt .::. Size~: 21.76 KB | Aug 19 15:11 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 15:44:03 2010 |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:11:16] <TechrightsBot>Title: Recording Industry Using Net Neutrality Debate To Try To Link Child Porn With Copyright Infringement Again | Techdirt .::. Size~: 21.76 KB |
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| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:19:15] Notice-BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [sjvn] The Unbearable Lightness of Declaring a Liberal Arts Major http://is.gd/epgRF Interesting. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:19:17] <TechrightsBot>Title: The Unbearable Lightness of Declaring a Liberal Arts Major by Angela Chen - The Morning News .::. Size~: 25.75 KB |
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| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:22:15] Notice-BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [sjvn] Watch out Apple, Android 3.0 tablets may surpass the iPad http://is.gd/eph2D Me: Here they come! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:22:17] <TechrightsBot>Title: Watch out Apple, Android 3.0 tablets may surpass the iPad - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 59.45 KB |
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| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:27:14] Notice-BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [wikileaks] Antiwar activists rally around soldier suspected of leaking classified material to WikiLeaks http://bit.ly/aS5IGC |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:27:15] <TechrightsBot>Title: FOXNews.com - Antiwar activists rally around soldier suspected of leaking classified material to WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 77.64 KB |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:28:30] JoinOsamaK has joined this channel (~Osama@fsf/member/osamak). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:28:45] <_Goblin>hi! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:29:24] <_Goblin>heres an idea for the channel (lets see if it creates a discussion).... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:29:30] <FurnaceBoy>no way! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:29:35] <_Goblin>two best films of 2010 so far.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:29:39] <_Goblin>only two each.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:29:56] <DaemonFC>hmmm, this guy is hilarious |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:04] <_Goblin>me? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:05] * ThistleWeb holds up Father Ted style placard and chat's "down with this sorta thing" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:15] <DaemonFC>he keeps insisting that Aoyumi is obligated to release his patches which are only for testing |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:17] <FurnaceBoy>does it have to be two? only the cartoons are worth watching. I vote Shrek Forever After. ANd I haven't seen Toy Story 3 yet. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:25] Joinschestowitz_log has joined this channel (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz). |
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| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:28] <_Goblin>thistleweb: "My lovely horse" - Classic episode |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:38] <DaemonFC>so that he can use an, _untested_ version of AoTuv on Linux |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:44] <cubevector>I only remember 70's movies :) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:48] <_Goblin>... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:54] <ThistleWeb>it's been a while, but I remember scenes, not ep names mostly |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:30:55] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: ok ok SHrek Forever After and "Winter's Bone". if you mean mainstream. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:00] <_Goblin>I'll go with: "Man from Earth" and "Time Crimes" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:13] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: any films... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:14] <amarsh04>ok, I've seen very few movies, but did just see the preview of "Matching Jack" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:17] * FurnaceBoy doesn't watch mainstream as a rule so that's about all he saw. no idea about best. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:33] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: I mostly watch non-current films. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:34] <gnufreex>http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/New-Windows-vulnerability-Applications-download-malicious-code-from-the-net-1062153.html |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:38] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: if you get the chance then....>Time Crimes... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:38] <TechrightsBot>Title: New Windows vulnerability: Applications download malicious code from the net - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 36.45 KB |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:44] <DaemonFC>like he's supposed to say "Here's some code I'm not even sure of which may spit out Ogg files which aren't even bitstream compliant!" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:48] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: I haven't heard of it, and that's a good sign! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:52] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: absolutely excellent.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:57] <FurnaceBoy>ok |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:31:57] <DaemonFC>"Go forth and spew those files on the world!" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:32:19] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: a time traveller who goes back 8 hours and causes absolute chaos!...very good! |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:32:24] <amarsh04>I also just borrowed dvd's for 2 old train movies "The General" and "The Titfield Thunderbolt". I saw the restored "The Sentimental Bloke" earlier this year |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:32:30] <DaemonFC>it's funny that people just figure that open source is another word for GPL |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:32:32] <ThistleWeb>sherlock holmes was cool, dunno if it's 2010 or now |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:32:41] <DaemonFC>and GPL would be counterproductive here |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:32:43] <_Goblin>at least nobody said Avatar... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:11] <ThistleWeb>avatar was quite decent, but vastly overhyped and way too focussed on the 3d tech |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:32] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: ok, sounds intriguing. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:35] <_Goblin>ThistleWeb: Haven't seen Sherlock.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:37] * FurnaceBoy checks local programmes |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:44] <FurnaceBoy>oh, WORST 2010 movie? SPLICE was awful. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:50] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: I think its spanish.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:53] <FurnaceBoy>atrocious. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:57] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: ah! another very good sign. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:33:58] <DaemonFC>I thought Repo Men sucked |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:04] <DaemonFC>more than anything else I saw this year |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:15] <gnufreex>schestowitz: "Apparently it is possible to exploit the way Windows downloads libraries for third-party applications, to execute arbitrary programs on victims' systems. According to various reports, the problem exists because applications that retrieve linked data (safe files) from external sources, also try to download certain libraries from the same place." |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:28] <_Goblin>I think most of the mainstream works are appalling... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:37] <_Goblin>Centurion though is very good. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:38] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: did you see 2009's "El secreto de sus ojos" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:45] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: Argentina. excellent. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:46] <DaemonFC>gnufreex: It's nice that you don't link to that in context |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:48] <gnufreex>I am puting Windows in VM, so I can exploit this new hole. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:53] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: no....is it sci-fi? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:34:53] <DaemonFC>and only provide us with the sky is falling clip |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:03] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: no. drama, i guess. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:07] <DaemonFC>maybe next time you can be more emo |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:10] <_Goblin>ah... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:11] <DaemonFC>I doubt it though |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:13] <DaemonFC>:D |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:18] <_Goblin>Im more of a sci-fi indi fan. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:40] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: I linked entire article above. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:45] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: well, maybe you'd even *like* Splice. but I didn't. really B-grade schlock |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:47] <DaemonFC>Windows doesn't download libraries for third party applications |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:35:55] <cubevector>The General? With Buster Keaton? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:00] <DaemonFC>they can use whatever is on the system or fail to run and spit out an error message |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:06] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: I saw a clip of splice...I get the idea....I didn't think it would be very good. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:18] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: your instinct was correct ! mine wasn't. I expected better. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:19] <DaemonFC>much like, shared objects :D |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:29] <_Goblin>currently watching Red Dwarf.... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:34] <amarsh04>yes cubevector, with new soundtrack by Joe Hisaishi |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:39] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: So article is lying? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:42] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: another in my hate list. KickAss |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:36:43] <cubevector>yeah. The General is a highly regarded film |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:00] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: friend made us watch it on dvd. excruciating. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:04] <_Goblin>Rimmer and the team are about to meet Kryten for the first time... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:07] <DaemonFC>I'll read it just because it sounds absurd |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:09] <amarsh04>The Castle of Cagliostro is also a good watch (1979 Miyazaki animation) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:15] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: what Red Dwarf? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:24] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: no, "KickAss" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:27] <FurnaceBoy>_Goblin: 2010 movie |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:32] <_Goblin>FurnaceBoy: ah... |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:33] <DaemonFC>the only time an application gets a dll that's not systemwide is when there's a compatibility shim made especially for it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:39] <FurnaceBoy>amarsh04: we're trying to stick to 2010 :) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:45] <DaemonFC>those are not downloaded from anywhere but Microsoft directly |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:45] <FurnaceBoy>amarsh04: as bleak as that is |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:48] <DaemonFC>(Windows Update) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:37:51] <amarsh04>cubevector, if you can get hold of it, the restored "The Sentimental Bloke" 1919 is very good |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:00] <DaemonFC>and are removed as programs are updated to support the system dll |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:01] <cubevector>wow, even older :) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:09] <_Goblin>I loved Nosferato |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:09] <cubevector>amarsh04, I will try to find it |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:31] * amarsh04 worked on making sure that others didn't take handsets with cameras into movie previews |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:48] <DaemonFC>"For example ? an attacker deposits an MP3 file as well as a specially crafted DLL (with the required name) on a network volume. The victim starts a media player to play the MP3 and potentially also downloads the DLL" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:38:59] <amarsh04>as such, I didn't get to see the previews, someone else had the night vision camera |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:02] <DaemonFC>1. You'd have to be trying to play the file over the network from the folder on the share |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:13] <DaemonFC>2. The malformed dll would have to be player-specific |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:20] <cubevector>amarsh04, how about Harry Langdon? You see any of his old films? |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:28] <DaemonFC>3. You'd have to be incredibly stupid not to see it there. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:30] QuitThistleWeb has left this server (Quit: Ex-Chat). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:46] <amarsh04>would have to look him up cubevector |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:46] <DaemonFC>and 4. Windows would not just trust a dll in a random FTP folder |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:39:56] <DaemonFC>this is a network share we are talking about |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:40:00] <cubevector>amarsh04, he is worth a look |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:40:01] <DaemonFC>not something random off the internet |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:40:06] <cubevector>often overlooked |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:40:28] <DaemonFC>so it's highly unlikely that any kind of exploit could be pulled off given how a Windows program accesses a dll |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:41:17] <DaemonFC>"This is something attackers can generally achieve via social engineering techniques." Tricking me into running something out of a network share they don't have access to?" |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:41:23] <gnufreex>"However, the vulnerability can reportedly also be exploited via HTTP and WebDAV. Metasploit developer HD Moore says that the problem affects around 40, mostly third-party, applications and that there are "some surprises"." |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:41:24] <DaemonFC>:) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:41:32] <gnufreex>40 apps. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:41:56] <DaemonFC>anyone who made an application affected in such a way should be shot |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:42:06] <DaemonFC>I know that even Windows Media Player isn't that stupid |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:42:08] <DaemonFC>:) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:42:18] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: Grab your shootgun |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:42:52] <DaemonFC>"he issue was made public yesterday (Wednesday) after security firm ACROS released a bug report describing a very similar problem in Apple's iTunes for Windows ? the flaw was fixed in iTunes 9.2.1 four weeks ago." |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:42:55] <DaemonFC>Surprise Surprise |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:43:16] <gnufreex>DaemonFC: You need to shoot Apple. |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:43:16] <DaemonFC>the other apps affected are unknown because that asshole won't tell people |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:43:22] <DaemonFC>(so they can stop using them) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:43:50] <DaemonFC>but I'm not surprised to see Apple software affected |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:44:13] <amarsh04>cubevector, I see that Ella Cinders rated more than 8 on imdb.com |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:44:15] <DaemonFC>Security may not be Job #1 at Microsoft, but it's not on the job list at all with Crapple |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:44:17] <DaemonFC>:) |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:44:18] Jointessier_ has joined this channel (~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco). |
| [Thursday 19 Aug 2010] [23:44:34] <FurnaceBoy>DaemonFC: never let facts get in the way of a good whinge. |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 20:58:29 2010 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Aug 19 20:58 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell for http://TechRights.org | Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those who oppose software freedom :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell-social | Aug 19 20:58 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:18:08 2010 | Aug 19 20:58 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Aug 19 20:58 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz_log | Aug 19 20:58 |
| sebsebseb | there we go | Aug 19 20:58 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz and schestowitz_log are back | Aug 19 20:58 |
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| DaemonFC | I think Sun figured that they'd get all kinds of people lining up to build Solaris for them if they propped up OpenSolaris | Aug 19 20:58 |
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| DaemonFC | and it just never happened | Aug 19 20:58 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: OpenSolaris went because Oralce wants to make Soalaris a high end exotics, so it can put huge price. | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| DaemonFC | there's no reason to keep OpenSolaris going if it's just a publicly available source code repo that only really benefits competitors | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it was happening. | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: they will have a freeware version yeah | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| sebsebseb | as well | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Sun's open strategy was probably their last chance. | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| sebsebseb | thats very propritary to have a freeware version | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Oracle sealed their fate | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| sebsebseb | rather than open source version | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: Solaris Expres will be cripled | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: yep it will suck probably | Aug 19 20:59 |
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| FurnaceBoy | yes, it's game over for Solaris | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| sebsebseb | I have never used OpenSolaris or did I vm something, well I think I had nexentraos in vm befoer maybe | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| DaemonFC | Solaris is a legacy product either way | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| sebsebseb | well they aren't realy home user os's | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| FurnaceBoy | except perhaps for enterprise holdouts, who will continue to pay through the nose | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| DaemonFC | it's better than Linux in a number of ways | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| DaemonFC | but not enough better to justify the high price | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: wow, really. | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you talk a lot about stuff you don't use... | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: It is not true tha Oralce couldn't make money from OpenSolaris. They didn't want to. They can make more money while is closed, even if it kills it eventualy. | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: there was no high price on OpenSolaris, and Solaris support was very cheap. | Aug 19 21:00 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: I agree | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: but it's dead now | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah, but it only runs well on SPARC | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that's bullshit | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| *tessier_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) | Aug 19 21:01 |
| DaemonFC | try finding drivers for random x86 PC crap | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you don't know much about Solaris. why talk about it? | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| DaemonFC | Solaris for x86 is just a bad port | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: rubbish | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| DaemonFC | they'd be better off killing it and selling it only on SPARC | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: how would you know? you don't run it. | Aug 19 21:01 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it's not meant to run on random whitebox crap. | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| DaemonFC | I've tried it out | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it's an integrated system | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: sold with Sun hw and Sun support | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Solaris on x86 works fine. | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| DaemonFC | when you don't even support basic e1000 drivers, you suck | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] All right, I just backed up all my data (all machines) to a external 1,5 TiB USB HDD. This means unlimited "distro hopping" in Extacy :-) | Aug 19 21:02 |
| DaemonFC | sorry | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: whitebox what do you mean? | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: thankyou | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: random PC hw | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: yeah I thought thats what you meant | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah, there's only a billion motherboards out there that need the e1000 driver | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| DaemonFC | and have no ethernet fuinctionality without it | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| sebsebseb | yeah Solaris and OpenSolaris are server OS's | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: drop it. you don't run SOlaris. | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: some of us do | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| DaemonFC | including "server" motherboards | Aug 19 21:02 |
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| DaemonFC | Solaris on x86 simply sucks | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you're only making foolish statements | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| DaemonFC | even basic drivers are MIA | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: see above | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Solaris isn't meant to run on x86 as far as I know | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you don't seem to understand what Solaris is | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| DaemonFC | there's no making excuses for it | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Drivers support is diferent issue. If you buy certified server, it will work. Bussines dont but random servers. | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| DaemonFC | because there is no excuse for it | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: eh? | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Solaris as far as I know is only really meant to run on Sun hardware | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: drop it, you're embarrassing yourself | Aug 19 21:03 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: I think there has been this sort of convo in the past, between you two, :D | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| DaemonFC | you'll have better luck dropping in FreeBSD on an x86 PC | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's commercially supported, or was, on IBM, HP, maybe others too. | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| DaemonFC | or Linux | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| DaemonFC | that's why OpenSolaris failed | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: about Solaris, and DaemonFC getting it all wrong | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: YES! | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| DaemonFC | it's useless on common x86 PCs | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: becuase that's what they're FOR! | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: nobody 's really interested in running Solaris commercially on random crappy PC hardware you bought at the CHinese grocery! | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| *schestowitz_log organising | Aug 19 21:04 |
| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Windows Server has terible hardware support. It won't work on POWER, SPARC and Tilera | Aug 19 21:04 |
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| DaemonFC | if you want to tie a niche OS to a niche hardware platform that you also control, of course you should be able to optimize it and provide decent support for it | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and FYI, the integrated hardware was competitively priced and so was the support. | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz_log: organising? | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: touche | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| DaemonFC | moving out onto an open platform like x86 PC with niche OS like SOlaris is just destined for failure | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: which is what they did. Next topic. | Aug 19 21:05 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: Solaris was never meant to become really, realy popular, as far as I know | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| DaemonFC | their problem is that x86 Linux is dominating because x86 hardware is cheap and there's plenty of vendors who make hardware for it | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| DaemonFC | and the profit was never really in the software for them anyway | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| FurnaceBoy | of course. | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| sebsebseb | and Windows runs on PC's | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| DaemonFC | so I think Solaris is fucked no matter what happens | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| sebsebseb | and yeah most computers sold are PC's and uh | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the OpenSolaris strategy was about adoption. | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| DaemonFC | that's why they're going SCO with patent lawsuits | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| DaemonFC | patents are probably the only thing left aside from a legacy UNIX | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Oracle has killed all of it. scorched earth. | Aug 19 21:06 |
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| *_Goblin (~goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 21:07 |
| sebsebseb | Hi _Goblin | Aug 19 21:07 |
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| sebsebseb | :) | Aug 19 21:07 |
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| _Goblin | Hi! | Aug 19 21:07 |
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| _Goblin | How are you? | Aug 19 21:07 |
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| sebsebseb | okish | Aug 19 21:07 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: You say that x86 is open platform? Lets say I have a FAB in my garage, I want to buld CPUs. I have choice of OPenSPARC, OpenRISC and MIPS. No x86 | Aug 19 21:07 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: i'd like some high threads SPARC. :) | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| _Goblin | I met Roy in person today/yesterday | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: lucky you | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: yeah someone said something like that | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: first time you meet him or? | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| _Goblin | very decent evening... | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| _Goblin | shame it was so late at night and I had work early in the morning. | Aug 19 21:08 |
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| sebsebseb | he stayed with you? | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| _Goblin | running off about 3 hours sleep at the moment. | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: I would like too, but I don't have real FAB, I am only trollind Deamon :( | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: yeah, I live near Luton Airport, so it was easier. | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| sebsebseb | why did you meet Roy? | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: oh he came on the plane or? | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: he's away and was flying from Luton this morning. | Aug 19 21:09 |
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| sebsebseb | Why? | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| _Goblin | holiday/visiting relatives. | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| sebsebseb | oh | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| sebsebseb | so first time you meet Roy? | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| _Goblin | it was very strange, because when I met him it was like we had known each other years... | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| sebsebseb | well you have | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| _Goblin | had a great talk.....even the wife was interested! | Aug 19 21:10 |
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| *DaemonFC1 (~Ryan@99.37.244.106) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 21:11 |
| sebsebseb | well you have known Roy online for years? | Aug 19 21:11 |
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| *DaemonFC has quit (Disconnected by services) | Aug 19 21:11 |
| *DaemonFC1 is now known as DaemonFC | Aug 19 21:11 |
| _Goblin | yeah...although is IRC a good way to know someone? | Aug 19 21:11 |
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| *sebsebseb might meet _Goblin some time | Aug 19 21:11 |
| sebsebseb | _Goblin: yes | Aug 19 21:11 |
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| DaemonFC | It's getting harder to find routers that don't use Linux :( | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: it is a good way to get to know someone | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| _Goblin | I have an open house....anyone who wants to visit is welcome. | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Americans learn nothing from history, Republicans / Tebaggers & Neocons, repeat bullshit until it sinks in as fact http://bit.ly/bsGG1d | Aug 19 21:12 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Barack Obama believed to be a Muslim by one fifth of Americans | World news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 72.71 KB | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| DaemonFC | the damned thing is full of bugs, either it just magically decides to flip on the wireless antenna all by itself out of nowhere | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well some time I will I guess :) | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| DaemonFC | or it decides to quite responding or reboot itself | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: welcome anytime.... | Aug 19 21:12 |
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| DaemonFC | it has a mind of it's own | Aug 19 21:13 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: online is a way to get to know people | Aug 19 21:13 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: also certain people, find their partners online | Aug 19 21:13 |
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| DaemonFC | it makes that Linksys piece of shit look good | Aug 19 21:13 |
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| DaemonFC | *quit | Aug 19 21:13 |
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| *tessier_ (~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 21:13 |
| _Goblin | sebsebseb: yeah, its just you always wonder what someone is really like in real life as text can sometimes be misunderstood. | Aug 19 21:13 |
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| *DaemonFC wishes the Linksys piece of shit had a built in ADSL modem so he could throw this thing in the trash | Aug 19 21:14 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 21:14 |
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| MinceR | OpenSlowLarry's was their last chance to keep SlowLarry's up-to-date and relevant, but LawSuit Larry blew it | Aug 19 21:14 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: I have meet a few people from the net before | Aug 19 21:14 |
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| _Goblin | Roy is a complete gentleman, and very interesting. | Aug 19 21:14 |
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| DaemonFC | MinceR: They're no good on the x86 PC | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| DaemonFC | and they can't keep selling SPARC | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| DaemonFC | because of.... | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.savingadvice.com/images/blog/generic-beer.jpg | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| DaemonFC | Linux | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| MinceR | also, 4 minutes of lag really sucks | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: what did you chat about? | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: just stuff on IRC, what I do for a living...(not sure it was what roy expected!) and life in general... | Aug 19 21:15 |
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| sebsebseb | oh ok | Aug 19 21:16 |
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| DaemonFC | Linux is less reliable on x86 than the other ports I've used | Aug 19 21:16 |
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| DaemonFC | (MIPS and PPC) | Aug 19 21:16 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: well this is the modern world | Aug 19 21:16 |
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| DaemonFC | I think it goes back to the broad range of PC hardware vs. a few devices in some company's black box | Aug 19 21:17 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: whats sad though is when people, only have online, to well have anything close to friendship | Aug 19 21:17 |
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| schestowitz | sebsebseb: lovely bloke and lovely family that _Goblin | Aug 19 21:17 |
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| DaemonFC | Even Linux works better when they only have to write drivers for a few well known devices than when you can just stuff any random thing in the box | Aug 19 21:17 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: so the logs messed up didn't they or? | Aug 19 21:17 |
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| _Goblin | schestowitz: So you arrived safely!...great...hope you come over again. | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | I'm still getting everything hooked up here | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] FOIA end times: DHS diverted hundreds of requests for "political review" | AP http://bit.ly/94EeUh | Aug 19 21:18 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: The Associated Press: AP IMPACT: A political filter for info requests .::. Size~: 18.09 KB | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| *FurnaceBoy tases DaemonFC | Aug 19 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Saw your highlighted message, not context yet | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Where did you go? | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Even my shotgun has a further effective range than that toy | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no, tessier takes the logs in the mean time | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: oh | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| schestowitz | brb | Aug 19 21:18 |
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| sebsebseb | so is tessier a bot? | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | One of my monitors just blew up | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| DaemonFC | you're talking about the petty dictator toy that police use on unarmed old ladies and belligerent college students who are already drunk anyway | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | Bad fuse | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: It is not Linux that is less reliable. It is x86. | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| schestowitz | So I need to get 2 more | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: yeah x86 sucks apparently | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: PPC is meant to be a bit better apparently | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| FurnaceBoy | ... | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| DaemonFC | sebsebseb: It's difficult to support because there's a broader range of devices for it | Aug 19 21:19 |
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| DaemonFC | and most of those tend to be designed around Windows | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: let's not confuse all the various markets here. | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: yes? | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| sebsebseb | @ that .... | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the consumer market is not even about Linux or Solaris | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it's not a statement you can make without massive qualification | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| *sebsebseb thinks DaemonFC loves Windows! :D | Aug 19 21:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC is sort of exposing the problem with the generalisation | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| gnufreex | It is phucken WIndoze still :( | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| sebsebseb | thats a sort of joke, but I guess you do realyl DaemonFC | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| DaemonFC | Nvidia's PC chipsets needs some level of WMI support in the OS | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: he still thinks Windows is relevant. | Aug 19 21:20 |
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| DaemonFC | even if you're not using Windows | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: without massive qualification? | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Management_Instrumentation | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes. what market segment do you mean? | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| DaemonFC | So large parts of WMI are re-implemented on Linux | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: if you mean random consumer stuff, then of course you have a point, sort of, but the causes are fuzzy | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| DaemonFC | if only to support things like video cards and wireless chipsets and sound cards | Aug 19 21:21 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uh? to me its just some geeks, going on about what hardware type is the best :D however maybe PPC is better since thats what Macs used to have, but now they are basically PC's sine Intel | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: well, there is no 'best'. | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: there are only different markets | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: What parts of WMI are in Linux? | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| gnufreex | DRI is not WMI | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: each market has its own expectations and leaders | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: of course the x86 consumer world (and windows) is a complete joke to those spec'ing servers | Aug 19 21:22 |
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| DaemonFC | http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=wmi-client | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Ubuntu -- Package Search Results -- wmi-client .::. Size~: 7.12 KB | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Twitter's "Who to follow" recommending I follow Bill Gates.......I won't comment on that further... | Aug 19 21:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: but your grandma won't want to run a SPARC rack in her study | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| DaemonFC | http://mjg59.livejournal.com/106456.html | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: mjg59: Nnngh. .::. Size~: 38.27 KB | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: no surely you mean, the Windows being the OS most used on a PC, is a complete joke, to nearly anyone, who knows how to use a PC/x86 reasonably properly? | Aug 19 21:23 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: so all of these statements have to be qualified by "what market are we talking about" | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: sure, but do you mean, kids, developers, web surfers, gamers, who? | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: most ppl don't even know there's anything BUT windows | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| DaemonFC | "Nvidia have a magic communication channel between the system firmware and the graphcis hardware. It's based on WMI and bonghits, and it's not documented." | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| DaemonFC | hehe | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| sebsebseb | Windows as an OS is pretty sucky, but most hardware drivers for a PC is made for it, and most software, since the amount of market share it has | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| sebsebseb | so technically Windows is pretty sucky | Aug 19 21:24 |
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| sebsebseb | for useage, once security has been taken care of properly, its not really bad | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: sure, for consumer market. | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | just remember that any statement like this has to be contextualised | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| sebsebseb | for desktop useage sure | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | as there is no single 'market' for computing. there are dozens. | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| sebsebseb | for a server, uhmm WIndows serer is a joke really I guess | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | even for desktops... | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| sebsebseb | Linux, Unix :) | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| tessier | sebsebseb: I am not a bot. But my IRC client is logging. | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: you could probably easily name 30 different markets with a little thought | Aug 19 21:25 |
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| sebsebseb | tessier: yes I thought you might have been a person | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| sebsebseb | tessier: after seeing the name | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| DaemonFC | large scale server deployments tend to run Linux | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| tessier | Large scale deployments are too expensive running much else. | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: uhmm most of the Internet runs Linux as far as I know | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| tessier | You going to license 10,000 copies of Windows 7? | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| gnufreex | Windows was never ready for deskop. Microsoft just managed to set low standard | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| DaemonFC | Windows Server can get you by if you don't ask much of it and don't mind wiping its ass | Aug 19 21:26 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: uhmm? | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| sebsebseb | the second bit | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: exactly | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| DaemonFC | security software | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| DaemonFC | applying hotfixes one by one | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | why bother | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| DaemonFC | all kinds of fun stuff | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: well there wasn't realy an OS for the PC, ok there was OS/2 | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | in the end you still are stuck with windoz | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: I mean for consumer useage | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: BeOS, NEXTSTEP | Aug 19 21:27 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: There was Amiga. | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: and probably a pile of others | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: ok to be honest that was all a bit before my computer time, I mean | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| sebsebseb | well maybe not quite | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: shoudl be coeval with os/2 tho | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| DaemonFC | oh, offlining the system for an hour or two every week to defrag the hard drive | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but I was a child in the 90's | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| DaemonFC | and clean up random junk that it spews everywhere | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| sebsebseb | and I did grow up with computers at school :) | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: Also, Solaris was once gret for workstations, just SunW was to expensive | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but no computer that I could use at home untill 97 | Aug 19 21:28 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I did too, but they were Z80, 6502 | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| sebsebseb | however yeah Windows 3.1 wasn't that great | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: BBC Micro, in the latter case | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| DaemonFC | sebsebseb: The reason that Microsoft can run their websites on Windows is because they have backup systems that take over when one system fails | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| DaemonFC | so it appears like they suffer no down time | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: which you have to do anyway | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| gnufreex | sebsebseb: There was lots of computers usable at home, just too expensive. Nobody wanted to give stuff dirt cheap like Bll G | Aug 19 21:29 |
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| DaemonFC | if you're trying to run a website on Windows Server, your experience with downtime will be frequent | Aug 19 21:30 |
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| sebsebseb | however in the 90's, is when quite a lot of home users, got their first computer, and so they used what it came with | Aug 19 21:30 |
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| gnufreex | And he did it because his stuff was crap. | Aug 19 21:30 |
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| sebsebseb | computers were pretty expensive before the PC | Aug 19 21:30 |
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| sebsebseb | and even the first PC's weren't that cheap | Aug 19 21:30 |
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| DaemonFC | and Microsoft has offloaded a lot of their heavier stuff onto Linux systems | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| DaemonFC | quietly | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| DaemonFC | like having Digital River handle all the downloads they offer | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: yeah people didn't want to pay much for a computer | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| DaemonFC | (Linux) | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| sebsebseb | gnufreex: and so PC with Windows for not that much | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| DaemonFC | or Akamai hosting Bing | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| DaemonFC | (Linux) | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| gnufreex | I can't think where will be today if Hurd was ready in say 1988. | Aug 19 21:31 |
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| sebsebseb | and then also bye bye those old BBC's and Achorns that the shcool had | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| sebsebseb | to be replaced with PC's running Windows | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| sebsebseb | hrm | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| DaemonFC | if they based it off 4.4BSD, it would have been finished in the early 90s | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: well, Linux is an almost best case outcome | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| DaemonFC | they decided to go for some insane unworkable complicated design | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: if it hadn't been linux it would have been *something* | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| DaemonFC | that still doesn't work | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: right. my school had BBC Micro | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| DaemonFC | it would have been a BSD kernel | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| DaemonFC | more than likely | Aug 19 21:32 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it requires more sophistication than that. | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| sebsebseb | as for Desktop Linux, loads of silly stuff, holding it back from gaining a more proper market share against Windows and Mac OS X, and well it may not matter that much in a few years time, I mean stuff really does seem to be starting to go mobile now | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Phew! The complications were only 'skin deep', no need for worry or 'blood'! Mom and son are perfectly fine! | Aug 19 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they could steal it and wrap the GPL around it | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| DaemonFC | like they do with lots of stuff | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: no, the deisgn of Hurd would not permit that approach | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: Not quite. I read old RMS's plans and newsleters, he had great vision. But he had to give it up pecause assholes were taking over his movement. | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: right, he got distracted. | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| MinceR | if they based it off 4.4BSD, ther would be nothign interesting about it | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| DaemonFC | I mean after they gave up on HURD | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uhmm maybe thats what I mean as well, altough we just said BBC. anyway uhmm rather basic computer, had a program on it called logo | Aug 19 21:33 |
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| DaemonFC | the reason they went with Linux is because it was there and it worked | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: it was very hard to get the GPL rolling. the old Usenet discussions rehash all the same FUD we hear today... | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| DaemonFC | and it was obvious that HURD never would | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | gnufreex: people used to think he was insane | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: quite | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| DaemonFC | so if not Linux, it would be a BSD kernel | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | oh, i see what you mean. | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | well we have BSD *as well* | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | so we're rather fortunate, all told | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| DaemonFC | Debian with FreeBSD's kernel | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| sebsebseb | also probably really a lot of open source projects, don't go properly main streame, because of lack of money, since yeah capitlism and consumerism | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| DaemonFC | yeah, that's kind of freaky | Aug 19 21:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: which you can have today. or Solaris with Debian | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: (Nexenta, etc) | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| DaemonFC | it shows you how much differently things could have gone I guess | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: but we *have* all of those tihngs. | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the open world is *about* diversity | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| sebsebseb | Ubuntu might have to advertise on TV one day! | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: If RMS used TRIX instead Mach, I and made something working, I think it would be great. And real deal was idea about Lisp based GUI desktop | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| DaemonFC | right, nobody forces you to use the Linux kernel to have the rest of Debian | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| DaemonFC | which is nice | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: RMS had to give up that when Lucid forked Emacs | Aug 19 21:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yeah BBC Micro. 16K RAM, 16K ROM. language ROMs. disk. awesome system. had one at home, too. | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: awesome system? | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: that was the old thing | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| MinceR | 223354 < DaemonFC> I mean after they gave up on HURD | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes. very nicely designed. | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: when I was at school | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| MinceR | when? | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| MinceR | i didn't get the memo | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| DaemonFC | it gives you jails, and ZFS, and native support for things like NDIS | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: nicely designed how what? I don't really know much about them, and don't really remember it much now | Aug 19 21:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: designed for flexibility. and it was powerful. you could add, e.g. a Z80 or 68000 co-processor. | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| DaemonFC | and the Linuxulator is there too | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: wide range of language ROMs | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| sebsebseb | anyway DaemonFC Soalris wans't really made for you I guess :D | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| DaemonFC | so most binary Linux crap just works | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: cool games written in assembler by Acornsoft | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: high res graphics | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: uh do you mean the Acorn now? | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: a significant structured BASIC | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: the BBC, was black and white | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I mean the BBC Micro | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: no | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: and then they also had Achorns | Aug 19 21:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: all BBC Micro were colour, unless you used a mono screen | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| DaemonFC | when you run a binary Linux app on FreeBSD 8.x, it will say it is Linux 2.6.18 | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| gnufreex | FurnaceBoy: I found it, this is what I meant: http://stallman.org/articles/xemacs.origin | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| DaemonFC | their goal is to be compatible with Red Hat's Enterprise Linux kernel | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: the Acorn Atom, Electron were b&w | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: maybe we aren't on about the same computer I dont know | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I am talking about the BBC Microcomputer, model B, basically. | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: I saw the earlier Acorns as well, but my school had none | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| sebsebseb | anyway its ashame really | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| sebsebseb | how | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| DaemonFC | unlike Slowlaris, you don't have to install a complete Linux distro in chroot | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| sebsebseb | there were all these old computers and such | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but then that just got replaced by WIndows PC's | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: it was a very hackable system. they had LAN (ECONET) and a fileserver with security | Aug 19 21:38 |
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| sebsebseb | and so the schools only teach Windows PC now uh | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| sebsebseb | most of them | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] WikiLeaks works around censorship in Thailand | AFP http://bit.ly/94EeUh | Aug 19 21:39 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: The Associated Press: AP IMPACT: A political filter for info requests .::. Size~: 18.09 KB | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| sebsebseb | choice is good :) | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| FurnaceBoy | linux still supports Econet, hehe | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: the old Achorns they had had some good games, a golf game, and asteroides and such :) | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| DaemonFC | minimal install of Ubuntu in Solaris will give it Linux compatibility | Aug 19 21:39 |
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| DaemonFC | they suggest RHEL or CentOS, but Ubuntu works | Aug 19 21:40 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: and Pacman | Aug 19 21:40 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Not surprising | Aug 19 21:40 |
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| DaemonFC | Linux still supports Token Ring for crying out loud | Aug 19 21:40 |
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| DaemonFC | :P | Aug 19 21:40 |
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| DaemonFC | and Ubuntu builds it | Aug 19 21:41 |
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| DaemonFC | as a module | Aug 19 21:41 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 21:41 |
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| sebsebseb | if people went for an OS, because of what technically was the best, and also if people made software for what was technicaly the best, but also hardware, well Linux distros would so have most market share right now in like all of the computer markeks, but no it is not like this | Aug 19 21:41 |
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| DaemonFC | just to make a point about how bloated and full of useless crap Ubuntu is | Aug 19 21:41 |
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| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: well 10.04 is and 10.10 will be even more, and jono will be telling people how great that stuff is | Aug 19 21:42 |
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| sebsebseb | I mean the Gnome patching | Aug 19 21:42 |
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| sebsebseb | that goes in the desktop edition | Aug 19 21:42 |
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| sebsebseb | I haven't tried Unity, but that looks ok | Aug 19 21:42 |
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| sebsebseb | however Gnome 2 on its own isn't really changing that much when it comes to the noticeble end user features | Aug 19 21:43 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: yes Acornsoft did games for BBC Micro too | Aug 19 21:43 |
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| sebsebseb | so I understand where Ubuntu developers are coming from | Aug 19 21:44 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: I would disagree. The "average user" (and a massive part of the market) would neither care nor be interested in what bloat there may or may not be. I think the majority of new Ubuntu users would find the improvement from Windows massive anyway and be very happy. | Aug 19 21:44 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: agreed | Aug 19 21:44 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: its only the tech savvy which are interested in the "finer points" - most users use software "because it works" | Aug 19 21:45 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: agreed | Aug 19 21:45 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: the mission is (if you will) to get them to realize how much better than experience can be with Linux rather than a Microsoft platform. | Aug 19 21:45 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: jono would probably agree | Aug 19 21:45 |
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| sebsebseb | with that | Aug 19 21:45 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: You have seen Ubuntu's bug 1 right? | Aug 19 21:46 |
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| sebsebseb | and you DaemonFC yeah? | Aug 19 21:46 |
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| DaemonFC | compiling stuff that's only relevant on non-PC hardware in a distro that only supports the PC is ridiculous | Aug 19 21:46 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 21:46 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: if you have concrete advise on ubuntu kernel configs, why don't you put yourself in a position where you can contribute? | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | advice* | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | instead of kibitzing here | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | which achieves nothing | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: grin | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| DaemonFC | it acheieves about as much as pointing something out in Launchpad | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| _Goblin | DaemonFC: but thats rediculous to you, someone in the know. Do you believe todays generation of computer users in the main, really care about the "finer points"? | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: wel I was thinking of doing :D | Aug 19 21:47 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: however I am basically trying to say here, that I agree | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | :) | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | we have to wade through all his pointless whining | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | it's a tax | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| amarsh04 | DaemonFC, I'm now listening to http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2010/jun/08/episode-0x29-motions-judgment/ re the busybox in televisions case | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: Episode 0x29: Motions for Judgment - Software Freedom Law Show - Software Freedom Law Center .::. Size~: 12.7 KB | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| sebsebseb | _Goblin: in the main? the main streame you mean? average consumer computer users, that just want it all to just work? | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | of course they do | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | they paid | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| sebsebseb | and want to treat their computer like a TV | Aug 19 21:48 |
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| FurnaceBoy | +1 | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| sebsebseb | when really they should be treating it like a car | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| _Goblin | sebsebseb: yeah...most people just use the computer as a tool. | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| sebsebseb | as in look after security when treating like a car | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: security is our job. | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | developers | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| sebsebseb | of the OS? | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | everything | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| DaemonFC | One of the reasons Ubuntu only supports x86 and x86-64 PCs is because this way they don't have to care if the packages they use would fail to build or exhibit horrible bugs on the other bazillion CPU types that a Linux distro can support | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| DaemonFC | the community PPC builds tend to be broken quite badly | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| sebsebseb | FurnaceBoy: well Microsoft fail big time for security! | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| DaemonFC | they are unofficial :D | Aug 19 21:49 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: of course, because they don't care. they get paid anyway. | Aug 19 21:50 |
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| FurnaceBoy | sebsebseb: they are completely disconnected from market effects. | Aug 19 21:50 |
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| sebsebseb | yeah exactly | Aug 19 21:50 |
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| sebsebseb | I guess | Aug 19 21:50 |
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| sebsebseb | and legally they don't have to try and make realy secure Windows | Aug 19 21:50 |
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| Tcl interface unloaded | Aug 19 21:58 |
| Python interface unloaded | Aug 19 21:58 |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 21:58:34 2010 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 19 23:30:25 2010 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Aug 19 23:30 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell for http://TechRights.org | Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those who oppose software freedom :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell-social | Aug 19 23:30 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:19:56 2010 | Aug 19 23:30 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Aug 19 23:30 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz_log | Aug 19 23:30 |
| _Goblin | thistleweb: "My lovely horse" - Classic episode | Aug 19 23:30 |
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| DaemonFC | so that he can use an, _untested_ version of AoTuv on Linux | Aug 19 23:30 |
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| cubevector | I only remember 70's movies :) | Aug 19 23:30 |
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| _Goblin | ... | Aug 19 23:30 |
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| ThistleWeb | it's been a while, but I remember scenes, not ep names mostly | Aug 19 23:30 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: ok ok SHrek Forever After and "Winter's Bone". if you mean mainstream. | Aug 19 23:30 |
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| _Goblin | I'll go with: "Man from Earth" and "Time Crimes" | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: any films... | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| amarsh04 | ok, I've seen very few movies, but did just see the preview of "Matching Jack" | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| *FurnaceBoy doesn't watch mainstream as a rule so that's about all he saw. no idea about best. | Aug 19 23:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: I mostly watch non-current films. | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| gnufreex | http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/New-Windows-vulnerability-Applications-download-malicious-code-from-the-net-1062153.html | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: if you get the chance then....>Time Crimes... | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| TechrightsBot | Title: New Windows vulnerability: Applications download malicious code from the net - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 36.45 KB | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| DaemonFC | like he's supposed to say "Here's some code I'm not even sure of which may spit out Ogg files which aren't even bitstream compliant!" | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: I haven't heard of it, and that's a good sign! | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: absolutely excellent.... | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| FurnaceBoy | ok | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| DaemonFC | "Go forth and spew those files on the world!" | Aug 19 23:31 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: a time traveller who goes back 8 hours and causes absolute chaos!...very good! | Aug 19 23:32 |
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| amarsh04 | I also just borrowed dvd's for 2 old train movies "The General" and "The Titfield Thunderbolt". I saw the restored "The Sentimental Bloke" earlier this year | Aug 19 23:32 |
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| DaemonFC | it's funny that people just figure that open source is another word for GPL | Aug 19 23:32 |
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| ThistleWeb | sherlock holmes was cool, dunno if it's 2010 or now | Aug 19 23:32 |
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| DaemonFC | and GPL would be counterproductive here | Aug 19 23:32 |
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| _Goblin | at least nobody said Avatar... | Aug 19 23:32 |
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| ThistleWeb | avatar was quite decent, but vastly overhyped and way too focussed on the 3d tech | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: ok, sounds intriguing. | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| _Goblin | ThistleWeb: Haven't seen Sherlock.... | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| *FurnaceBoy checks local programmes | Aug 19 23:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | oh, WORST 2010 movie? SPLICE was awful. | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: I think its spanish.... | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | atrocious. | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: ah! another very good sign. | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| DaemonFC | I thought Repo Men sucked | Aug 19 23:33 |
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| DaemonFC | more than anything else I saw this year | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| gnufreex | schestowitz: "Apparently it is possible to exploit the way Windows downloads libraries for third-party applications, to execute arbitrary programs on victims' systems. According to various reports, the problem exists because applications that retrieve linked data (safe files) from external sources, also try to download certain libraries from the same place." | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| _Goblin | I think most of the mainstream works are appalling... | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| _Goblin | Centurion though is very good. | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: did you see 2009's "El secreto de sus ojos" | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: Argentina. excellent. | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| DaemonFC | gnufreex: It's nice that you don't link to that in context | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| gnufreex | I am puting Windows in VM, so I can exploit this new hole. | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: no....is it sci-fi? | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| DaemonFC | and only provide us with the sky is falling clip | Aug 19 23:34 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: no. drama, i guess. | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| DaemonFC | maybe next time you can be more emo | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| _Goblin | ah... | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| DaemonFC | I doubt it though | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| _Goblin | Im more of a sci-fi indi fan. | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: I linked entire article above. | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: well, maybe you'd even *like* Splice. but I didn't. really B-grade schlock | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| DaemonFC | Windows doesn't download libraries for third party applications | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| cubevector | The General? With Buster Keaton? | Aug 19 23:35 |
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| DaemonFC | they can use whatever is on the system or fail to run and spit out an error message | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: I saw a clip of splice...I get the idea....I didn't think it would be very good. | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: your instinct was correct ! mine wasn't. I expected better. | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| DaemonFC | much like, shared objects :D | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| _Goblin | currently watching Red Dwarf.... | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| amarsh04 | yes cubevector, with new soundtrack by Joe Hisaishi | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: So article is lying? | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: another in my hate list. KickAss | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| cubevector | yeah. The General is a highly regarded film | Aug 19 23:36 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: friend made us watch it on dvd. excruciating. | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| _Goblin | Rimmer and the team are about to meet Kryten for the first time... | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| DaemonFC | I'll read it just because it sounds absurd | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| amarsh04 | The Castle of Cagliostro is also a good watch (1979 Miyazaki animation) | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: what Red Dwarf? | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: no, "KickAss" | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | _Goblin: 2010 movie | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| _Goblin | FurnaceBoy: ah... | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| DaemonFC | the only time an application gets a dll that's not systemwide is when there's a compatibility shim made especially for it | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | amarsh04: we're trying to stick to 2010 :) | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| DaemonFC | those are not downloaded from anywhere but Microsoft directly | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| FurnaceBoy | amarsh04: as bleak as that is | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| DaemonFC | (Windows Update) | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| amarsh04 | cubevector, if you can get hold of it, the restored "The Sentimental Bloke" 1919 is very good | Aug 19 23:37 |
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| DaemonFC | and are removed as programs are updated to support the system dll | Aug 19 23:38 |
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| cubevector | wow, even older :) | Aug 19 23:38 |
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| _Goblin | I loved Nosferato | Aug 19 23:38 |
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| cubevector | amarsh04, I will try to find it | Aug 19 23:38 |
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| *amarsh04 worked on making sure that others didn't take handsets with cameras into movie previews | Aug 19 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | "For example ? an attacker deposits an MP3 file as well as a specially crafted DLL (with the required name) on a network volume. The victim starts a media player to play the MP3 and potentially also downloads the DLL" | Aug 19 23:38 |
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| amarsh04 | as such, I didn't get to see the previews, someone else had the night vision camera | Aug 19 23:38 |
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| DaemonFC | 1. You'd have to be trying to play the file over the network from the folder on the share | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| DaemonFC | 2. The malformed dll would have to be player-specific | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| cubevector | amarsh04, how about Harry Langdon? You see any of his old films? | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| DaemonFC | 3. You'd have to be incredibly stupid not to see it there. | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| *ThistleWeb has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) | Aug 19 23:39 |
| amarsh04 | would have to look him up cubevector | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| DaemonFC | and 4. Windows would not just trust a dll in a random FTP folder | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| DaemonFC | this is a network share we are talking about | Aug 19 23:39 |
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| cubevector | amarsh04, he is worth a look | Aug 19 23:40 |
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| DaemonFC | not something random off the internet | Aug 19 23:40 |
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| cubevector | often overlooked | Aug 19 23:40 |
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| DaemonFC | so it's highly unlikely that any kind of exploit could be pulled off given how a Windows program accesses a dll | Aug 19 23:40 |
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| DaemonFC | "This is something attackers can generally achieve via social engineering techniques." Tricking me into running something out of a network share they don't have access to?" | Aug 19 23:41 |
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| gnufreex | "However, the vulnerability can reportedly also be exploited via HTTP and WebDAV. Metasploit developer HD Moore says that the problem affects around 40, mostly third-party, applications and that there are "some surprises"." | Aug 19 23:41 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 23:41 |
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| gnufreex | 40 apps. | Aug 19 23:41 |
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| DaemonFC | anyone who made an application affected in such a way should be shot | Aug 19 23:41 |
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| DaemonFC | I know that even Windows Media Player isn't that stupid | Aug 19 23:42 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 23:42 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: Grab your shootgun | Aug 19 23:42 |
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| DaemonFC | "he issue was made public yesterday (Wednesday) after security firm ACROS released a bug report describing a very similar problem in Apple's iTunes for Windows ? the flaw was fixed in iTunes 9.2.1 four weeks ago." | Aug 19 23:42 |
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| DaemonFC | Surprise Surprise | Aug 19 23:42 |
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| gnufreex | DaemonFC: You need to shoot Apple. | Aug 19 23:43 |
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| DaemonFC | the other apps affected are unknown because that asshole won't tell people | Aug 19 23:43 |
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| DaemonFC | (so they can stop using them) | Aug 19 23:43 |
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| DaemonFC | but I'm not surprised to see Apple software affected | Aug 19 23:43 |
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| amarsh04 | cubevector, I see that Ella Cinders rated more than 8 on imdb.com | Aug 19 23:44 |
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| DaemonFC | Security may not be Job #1 at Microsoft, but it's not on the job list at all with Crapple | Aug 19 23:44 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 23:44 |
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| *tessier_ (~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco) has joined #boycottnovell | Aug 19 23:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: never let facts get in the way of a good whinge. | Aug 19 23:44 |
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| DaemonFC | I think he's exaggerating | Aug 19 23:44 |
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| DaemonFC | and any programs affected are written by complete morons | Aug 19 23:45 |
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| cubevector | amarsh04, you may have seen more 1920's stuff than me :) | Aug 19 23:45 |
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| DaemonFC | so chances are I don't have any installed | Aug 19 23:45 |
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| amarsh04 | I saw the Marx Brothers "Coconuts" at a cinema | Aug 19 23:45 |
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| oiaohm_ | Depends how it done with FTP DaemonFC | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| DaemonFC | just so everyone knows, my new abbreviation, PFS = Pretty F***ing Stupid | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| DaemonFC | as in, OMG, you'd have to be PFS to do that in your program! | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| oiaohm_ | FTP can be used as a network share under windows. DaemonFC | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| DaemonFC | it's a PFS exploit | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| DaemonFC | it involves people who are PFS | Aug 19 23:46 |
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| DaemonFC | or using software developed by people who are PFS | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| gnufreex | Yeah, the Microsoft dudes are PFS | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| DaemonFC | and you'd be PFS to run most of it I'm sure | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| DaemonFC | iTunes users tend to be PFS | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| oiaohm_ | Linux kernel one recently with X11 was kinda bad. | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| DaemonFC | and I hope they get pwned | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| oiaohm_ | Sooner X11 comes pure user and not need root permissions the better. | Aug 19 23:47 |
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| cubevector | oiaohm_, how long do you think it will take for that to happen? | Aug 19 23:48 |
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| gnufreex | oiaohm_: Hurd has that already. | Aug 19 23:48 |
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| cubevector | gpm runs as root too | Aug 19 23:49 |
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| DaemonFC | "In absence of a patch and with no information about affected applications available, the only currently advisable workaround is to block SMB and WebDAV connections to the internet" | Aug 19 23:49 |
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| DaemonFC | which any competent user has already unless they know WHY they need that to be allowed | Aug 19 23:49 |
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| DaemonFC | :) | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| gnufreex | cubevector: You mean GDM? | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| cubevector | gpm | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| gnufreex | what is gpm? | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| cubevector | General Purpose Mouse server | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| gnufreex | aha. | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| cubevector | plus about a dozen other things :) | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| DaemonFC | Microsoft themselves patched Windows Vista and 7 to disable SMB2 support | Aug 19 23:50 |
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| DaemonFC | period | Aug 19 23:51 |
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| DaemonFC | totally | Aug 19 23:51 |
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| DaemonFC | the code to support it is still there, but you can't turn it on | Aug 19 23:51 |
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| oiaohm_ | gpm could already be recoded. cubevector | Aug 19 23:52 |
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| oiaohm_ | Not to run as root. | Aug 19 23:52 |
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| cubevector | yeah, it seems unnecessary | Aug 19 23:52 |
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| oiaohm_ | X11 is waiting on kernel based memory control. | Aug 19 23:52 |
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| oiaohm_ | Of video cards. | Aug 19 23:52 |
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| DaemonFC | the kernel should be the only thing that does have access to that memory | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| DaemonFC | it would stop jono's employer from being retards | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| DaemonFC | well, actually no, but it would stop them from doing retarded things relating to shared memory and X | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| jono | DaemonFC, Canonical is a big company, I am not involved in that | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| gnufreex | I don't think anything can stop them. | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| jono | you should raise it with the X team | Aug 19 23:53 |
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| FurnaceBoy | you can bet they are working on it already, it's obvious | Aug 19 23:54 |
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| FurnaceBoy | or somebody is ) | Aug 19 23:54 |
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| DaemonFC | the control of the hardware itself should never leave the kernel | Aug 19 23:54 |
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| DaemonFC | and should never be exposed directly to an application in userspace | Aug 19 23:55 |
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| DaemonFC | but that's in the sane world | Aug 19 23:55 |
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| jono | DaemonFC, you should share that with the kernel team | Aug 19 23:55 |
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| FurnaceBoy | yeah, bc they NEVER would think of that. | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| cubevector | ;-) | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| gnufreex | haha | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| DaemonFC | in a sane world, Linux would have an API for if X actually needed to ask the hardware to do something | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: this was one of the major architectural disagreements in NT design | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| DaemonFC | instead you have X running as root driving the hardware itself | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Cutler apparently argued for what you suggest (sanity) and was over-ruled. | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Windows Display Driver Model behaves as I described | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: after that he became an alcoholic, eventually a cat torturer | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| DaemonFC | the old XP drivers won't though | Aug 19 23:56 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I am referring to NT specifically. it was an architectural schism | Aug 19 23:57 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Thanks to _Goblin and family for great hospitality. Back to posting shortly | Aug 19 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | that's why a driver error flickers the screen on Vista or 7 then the system goes on functioning | Aug 19 23:57 |
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| DaemonFC | whereas XP will BSOD and/or freeze | Aug 19 23:57 |
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| DaemonFC | right | Aug 19 23:57 |
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| DaemonFC | you should mention that it only applies to NT 5.2 and earlier | Aug 19 23:57 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 23:57 |
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| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: apparently this was one area where Cutler 's common sense was over-ruled. | Aug 19 23:58 |
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| DaemonFC | Dave Cutler is competent | Aug 19 23:58 |
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| DaemonFC | most of the rest of the NT developers are not or were not | Aug 19 23:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | i think it was more of a high level interference | Aug 19 23:58 |
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| FurnaceBoy | e.g. Allchin is a twit | Aug 19 23:58 |
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| DaemonFC | if NT does anything well at the kernel level, it's probably traced back to Dave Cutler somehow | Aug 19 23:59 |
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| DaemonFC | :D | Aug 19 23:59 |
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