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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 21st, 2010

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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] You'd think 'The Fringe' would be a better name for a hairdressers conventionAug 21 00:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @bkuhn @michaeldexter,Merely asking #Oracle: "play nice" isn't enough. We should demand abolition of their #swpats b/c swpats don't a ...Aug 21 00:13
MinceRDiablo-D3: diaf.Aug 21 00:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] Give me a coffee break #oracleAug 21 00:25
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Oracle was right to sue Google | Developer World - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 95.21 KBAug 21 00:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Appeals Court Overturns Judge's Ban On LA Times Printing Photo Of Murder Suspect 21 00:30
TechrightsBotTitle: Appeals Court Overturns Judge's Ban On LA Times Printing Photo Of Murder Suspect | Techdirt .::. Size~: 23.65 KBAug 21 00:30
oiaohm_At long last someone is writing up a proper report.  Google asked Orcale to take leadship and sort out the legal problems in the java system.Aug 21 00:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Newsweek states DoD given access to our files. Untrue. Some limited access has been offered to make suggestions only.Aug 21 00:32
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TechrightsBotTitle: Blogs | Quassel IRC .::. Size~: 28.5 KBAug 21 00:37
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Wikimedia blog: We will add your activist distinctiveness to our own. 21 00:42
TechrightsBotTitle: We will add your activist distinctiveness to our own. «  David Gerard .::. Size~: 15.14 KBAug 21 00:42
DaemonFCIndiana law doesn't let a judge block stuff like thatAug 21 00:45
DaemonFCif you're in jail, it's anyone's businessAug 21 00:45
DaemonFCmatter of public recordAug 21 00:45
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] US gov lying on 'contact' issues. More evidence of contact from our lawyers to US gov: 21 00:56
TechrightsBotTitle: Wikileaks Lawyer Says Pentagon Given Access to Unpublished Secret Documents - Newsweek .::. Size~: 40.63 KBAug 21 00:56
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[rcweir] Upgraded blog to WordPress 3.01 and Thesis 1.8. Click. Click. Pain-free. 21 01:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Rob Weir: An Antic Disposition — Thinking the unthinkable, pondering the imponderable, effing the ineffable and scruting the inscrutable .::. Size~: 40.68 KBAug 21 01:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] RT: @bobmcmillan: Are Pentagon lawyers who believe WikiLeaks acted illegally same ones who were OK with torture of prisoners?Aug 21 01:18
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Prosecutors eye WikiLeaks charges | WSJ 21 01:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Prosecutors Eye WikiLeaks Charges - .::. Size~: 125.81 KBAug 21 01:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Reminder: Free speech isn't free 21 01:39
TechrightsBotTitle: Support WikiLeaks - WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 19.99 KBAug 21 01:39
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] New Book Shows How Our Common Culture Has Been Locked Up Via Copyright 21 01:46
TechrightsBotTitle: New Book Shows How Our Common Culture Has Been Locked Up Via Copyright | Techdirt .::. Size~: 22.63 KBAug 21 01:46
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Why Big Companies Almost Never Notice Disruptive Innovation 21 02:54
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Big Companies Almost Never Notice Disruptive Innovation | Techdirt .::. Size~: 22.76 KBAug 21 02:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[einfeldt] RT @google: Calling all Linux people: Gmail now has voice & video chat for you. 21 03:31
TechrightsBotTitle: Use Linux? Now you can video chat too - Official Gmail Blog .::. Size~: 27.79 KBAug 21 03:31
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Gotta love that New Labour efficency; your taxes at work ladies and gentlemen 21 04:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[techdirt] Why Debates Over Copyright Get Bogged Down: Conflating Use With Payment 21 04:00
TechrightsBotTitle:  Health trusts spend £300m on private consultants | Society | The Guardian  .::. Size~: 152.18 KBAug 21 04:00
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Debates Over Copyright Get Bogged Down: Conflating Use With Payment | Techdirt .::. Size~: 31.49 KBAug 21 04:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] Here's a good laugh - I've never even read any of Corey Doctorow's fiction, and this says I write fiction like him 21 04:04
TechrightsBotTitle: I Write Like Cory Doctorow .::. Size~: 9.26 KBAug 21 04:04
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @bkuhn @michaeldexter,Merely asking #Oracle: "play nice" isn't enough. We should demand abolition of their #swpats b/c swpats don't a ...Aug 21 04:24
schestowitz "What's the best bang for buck linux netbook out there? Brownie points for no microsoft tax ;)..."Aug 21 04:35
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / Rob Wheatly: @schestowitz What's the be ... .::. Size~: 11.99 KBAug 21 04:35
TechrightsBotTitle:       What's the best bang for buck linux netbook out there? Brownie points for no microsoft tax ;)     .::. Size~: 19.94 KBAug 21 04:35
oiaohm_Hmm schestowitz you are up early.Aug 21 04:46
schestowitzyes, 4...Aug 21 04:46
oiaohm_2 pm here I normally don't see you under 4 to 5 pm at the earlies.Aug 21 04:47
oiaohm_under/untilAug 21 04:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've favourited a YouTube video -- Rapid fossilization of hats debunked 21 05:08
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Rapid fossilization of hats debunked .::. Size~: 105.23 KBAug 21 05:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 20/8/2010: PlayStation 3 Allegedly Hacked, MeeGo-based Nokia N9 21 05:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 20/8/2010: PlayStation 3 Allegedly Hacked, MeeGo-based Nokia N9 | Techrights .::. Size~: 153.37 KBAug 21 05:16
schestowitzoiaohm_: not done many posts recentlyAug 21 05:17
schestowitzI'll catch up todayAug 21 05:17
oiaohm_At least some decent writeup on the Orcale vs Google are starting to appear as the panic cools off.  schestowitzAug 21 05:31
oiaohm_Including people finding Google request to Oracle take a guiding hand with Java.   Google cannot have it both ways.Aug 21 05:32
schestowitzI saw the Jobs-Ellison take earlierAug 21 05:33
schestowitzI beat others to itAug 21 05:33
oiaohm_It was funny that I was called a shill just because I would not take up pannic.Aug 21 05:34
oiaohm_I still see a chance that by the end of the Oracle vs Google mess that they could be best friends.Aug 21 05:35
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schestowitz 21 05:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Journalism Warning Labels « Tom Scott .::. Size~: 11.85 KBAug 21 05:41
schestowitzoiaohm_: press overplayed the issueAug 21 05:41
oiaohm_  Another lot of stupid panic.  Microsoft's Visual Studio 2008 Free EditionAug 21 05:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Is Oracle Taking Closed-Source? | .::. Size~: 15.13 KBAug 21 05:41
oiaohm_Has been used by OpenOffice since 2005Aug 21 05:41
oiaohm_For the windows build for the simple reason mingw/gcc has sucked at building source code effectively.Aug 21 05:42
schestowitzBigger news: 21 05:42
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle signals an end to OpenSolaris - Computerworld .::. Size~: 77.44 KBAug 21 05:42
oiaohm_Microsoft Visual Stuido - the 2008 of courseAug 21 05:42
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schestowitz 21 05:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 21 05:43
schestowitz 21 05:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle v Google: Why?  tecosystems .::. Size~: 89.06 KBAug 21 05:43
schestowitz 21 05:43
TechrightsBotTitle: Quite the firestorm : On a New Road .::. Size~: 105.54 KBAug 21 05:43
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schestowitz 21 05:43
TechrightsBotTitle:   Google Calls Oracle Patent Suit Baseless And An Attack On The Open-Source Java Community  .::. Size~: 142.88 KBAug 21 05:43
schestowitz 21 05:47
TechrightsBotTitle: /dev/dump: The Hand May Be Forced .::. Size~: 97.76 KBAug 21 05:47
oiaohm_PostgreSQL being droup be Orcale was kind fair.Aug 21 05:49
oiaohm_  Thinking firms like this profit from PostgreSQL stealing Oracles custommer base.  schestowitzAug 21 05:50
TechrightsBotTitle: EnterpriseDB: The Enterprise Postgres Company - Open Source Database .::. Size~: 39.86 KBAug 21 05:50
oiaohm_And they have not be putting up build servers either.Aug 21 05:50
schestowitzoiaohm_: issue is,Sun used to help postgresAug 21 05:52
schestowitzOracle just helps it suffer furtherAug 21 05:52
schestowitzFor obvious reasonsAug 21 05:52
schestowitzenterprisedb makes a migration route out of oracle dbAug 21 05:52
oiaohm_enterprisedb always promised to replace those servers if sun ever pulled their support.Aug 21 05:54
oiaohm_So it should have been a void issue.Aug 21 05:54
oiaohm_Only one catch enterprisedb did not step up.Aug 21 05:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Approaching its 50 Day #RedHatAug 21 05:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] There's more to FOSS than the Linux Foundation there is more to FOSS than "open source", tooAug 21 06:02
TechrightsBotTitle: There's more to FOSS than the Linux Foundation - Linux Magazine Online  .::. Size~: 34.77 KBAug 21 06:02
schestowitz 21 06:02
TechrightsBotTitle: Apache CouchDB: Notice for 1.0.1 .::. Size~: 18.02 KBAug 21 06:02
schestowitz 21 06:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Life is good after Oracle, See you in ten years. .::. Size~: 63.3 KBAug 21 06:03
*Wulf-is-not-here is now known as WireWulfAug 21 06:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Remove DRM from Amazon Kindle’s ebooks using Linux better yet, avoid DRM-laden productsAug 21 06:42
TechrightsBotTitle: Remove DRM from Amazon Kindles ebooks using Linux | .::. Size~: 38.76 KBAug 21 06:42
schestowitz 21 07:01
TechrightsBotTitle: Flash memory shrinks to fit embedded devices - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 53.21 KBAug 21 07:02
*WireWulf is now known as Wulf-is-not-hereAug 21 07:14
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Five billionth device about to plug into Internet for those who think that Desktop is Eveything(R)Aug 21 07:27
TechrightsBotTitle: Five billionth device about to plug into Internet .::. Size~: 100.02 KBAug 21 07:27
schestowitz "any company that uses DRM deserves to have it removed and their products shared ;)"Aug 21 07:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Kevin Macphail (kevie)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-10 06:13:05 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.48 KBAug 21 07:41
schestowitz"anybody that uses drm deserves to have it removed and their products shared ;)"Aug 21 07:41
schestowitzPretty muchAug 21 07:42
oiaohm_Really schestowitz think about it.  Linux foundation runs the Linux kernel serversAug 21 07:44
oiaohm_Where was postgresqls equal.  schestowitzAug 21 07:45
oiaohm_Lot of opensource projects have neglected the structs they should have.   Lot of good could come out of the oracle wake up call.Aug 21 07:45
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Setting up the base unit I purchased yesterday. Distro of choice for new PC? Sabayon 5.3 ! - Great stuff! #linux #foss #sabayonAug 21 07:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] After a period of calm (damn summer) I have some interesting (i hope) articles coming. An interview with a big name from the Amiga scene...Aug 21 07:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] A couple more dubious posters to mention and......Aug 21 07:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] What Comet thinks Windows 7 needs to run the most basic of purchase yesterday was quite an eye opener.Aug 21 07:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] oh and starting my campaign to get a refund for an unwanted Windows 7. Why should I line pockets of #Microsoft for something I don't want?Aug 21 07:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] and almost forgot....a few Linux podcasts to write about (the top five) the results are in and maybe you will find something new!Aug 21 08:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 21/8/2010: Wine 1.3.1, Urbi Goes AGPLv3 21 08:11
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 21/8/2010: Wine 1.3.1, Urbi Goes AGPLv3 | Techrights .::. Size~: 125.9 KBAug 21 08:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] We were warned to expect "dirty tricks". Now we have the first one: 21 08:16
TechrightsBotTitle: Google Translate .::. Size~: 1.13 KBAug 21 08:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Expressen is a tabloid; No one here has been contacted by Swedish police. Needless to say this will prove hugely distracting.Aug 21 08:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] New Yorker's demand Manning's release 21 08:24
TechrightsBotTitle: Bradley Manning Support Network  » Blog Archive  » NYC Demands Mannings Release .::. Size~: 32.39 KBAug 21 08:24
*neighborlee has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Aug 21 08:29
cubevectormy advice is never buy anything with windows on itAug 21 08:31
cubevectorthen you don't have to go through all the rigamarole of trying to get a windows refundAug 21 08:32
oiaohm_Its basically impossible to get a refund with Windows 7Aug 21 08:33
oiaohm_On a lot of devices.Aug 21 08:33
schestowitzWhy?Aug 21 08:34
schestowitzMore than w/ predecessors?Aug 21 08:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intel's Acquisition of #McAfee Makes It More of a Freedom Enemy 21 08:34
TechrightsBotTitle: Intels Acquisition of McAfee Makes It More of a Freedom Enemy | Techrights .::. Size~: 93.49 KBAug 21 08:34
oiaohm_Change of EULA schestowitzAug 21 08:34
oiaohm_Lot of device makers say fine you don't want windows give the whole device back and we refund you on that.  schestowitzAug 21 08:35
oiaohm_Or worse since you have opened the packaging of the device you cannot refund at all.Aug 21 08:35
oiaohm_So yep stuck with it.Aug 21 08:35
cubevectorthat's contestableAug 21 08:38
cubevectorI'm sure that goes against some consumer lawsAug 21 08:38
cubevectorin Ontario we have a 72 hour buyer's remorse ruleAug 21 08:39
cubevectorbut like I said, I'd never buy anything with doze on itAug 21 08:39
cubevectorbuy used, if necessaryAug 21 08:39
cubevectorhow you need to open the box to read the EULAAug 21 08:41
cubevectorhow do you read the EULA without opening the packaging?Aug 21 08:41
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_Goblingood morning good morning good morning.Aug 21 08:43
cubevectormorning _Goblin Aug 21 08:43
_Goblin1. the sun is shining..Aug 21 08:43
_Goblin2. the wife and lads gone shoppingAug 21 08:43
_Goblin3. Ive got a new toy to play withAug 21 08:43
_Goblin....Aug 21 08:44
_Goblingreat stuff!Aug 21 08:44
_Goblinexcept...Aug 21 08:44
cubevectorwith doze on it :-/Aug 21 08:44
_Goblinnot for long!Aug 21 08:44
cubevector;-)Aug 21 08:44
_GoblinI am recording my setup of it....Aug 21 08:44
_GoblinI refuse to even boot into Windows 7 once.Aug 21 08:44
_Goblinand I will get a refund.Aug 21 08:45
cubevectoryeah, see that's why I wouldn't even have bought whatever you gotAug 21 08:45
_Goblinits the convenience of walking into a store and getting a base unitAug 21 08:45
_Goblinshame there is no option of a blank system.Aug 21 08:45
_Goblinwhat was more disturbing though is what the salesman said to me.Aug 21 08:46
cubevectormay I ask what make?Aug 21 08:46
_Goblinbut thats for the article!Aug 21 08:46
_Goblinand yes the make is:Aug 21 08:46
_Goblin 21 08:47
TechrightsBotTitle:  .::. Size~: 23.96 KBAug 21 08:47
_GoblinAcerAug 21 08:47
cubevectorI think Acer has some models with Linux Aug 21 08:47
_GoblinI do like AcerAug 21 08:47
_GoblinI had no issues with any of their machinesAug 21 08:47
cubevectorI don't like those ones with reflecto LCDsAug 21 08:48
_GoblinOh meant to say cubevector....Aug 21 08:48
cubevectorprobably the El Cheapo of the Acer lineAug 21 08:48
cubevectornot yours, but the one I sawAug 21 08:48
_GoblinI saw a chap in London the other day with a Guru Meditation T-Shirt.Aug 21 08:48
_Goblinhow cool is that?Aug 21 08:49
cubevectorAROS is back to software error :)Aug 21 08:49
cubevectorit's coolAug 21 08:49
cubevectorbut Britian was more pro-Amiga I thinkAug 21 08:49
_GoblinagreedAug 21 08:49
_Goblincan't believe its only 850amAug 21 08:50
_Goblindone so much alreadyAug 21 08:50
cubevectorI bought a full computer for $20 the other dayAug 21 08:50
_Goblingood effort!Aug 21 08:50
cubevectorno one wants p3 :)Aug 21 08:50
_Goblinlol...Aug 21 08:50
cubevectorI'm the King of P3Aug 21 08:50
cubevectormust have at least ten motherboards nowAug 21 08:51
_Goblinthe only thing that tempts me on the PS3 is OblivionAug 21 08:51
_Goblinfantastic gameAug 21 08:51
cubevectoryes but this was Intel P3 :)Aug 21 08:51
_GoblinlolAug 21 08:51
_Goblinsorry...Aug 21 08:51
_GoblintiredAug 21 08:51
_GoblinPS3 I read!Aug 21 08:51
_Goblingot consoles on the brain!Aug 21 08:52
cubevectorsometimes I think flash was invented to make p3's run slowAug 21 08:52
cubevectorso everyone has to upgrade...Aug 21 08:53
_Goblincubevector...take a look at the specs on that twitpic of mine....according to Comet that is not good enough for Windows 7 and photo editing....Aug 21 08:53
cubevectorI can edit pics on my 486 :)Aug 21 08:53
cubevector2.2 ftwAug 21 08:53
_GoblinI thought the requirements for Windows 7 were high, but is it really that bad..?Aug 21 08:53
_Goblinah...Aug 21 08:53
*cubevector edits pics at the command line :)Aug 21 08:54
_Goblinlol.Aug 21 08:54
_Goblinapparently no Linux user can leave the CLIAug 21 08:54
cubevectorrunning X is optional :)Aug 21 08:55
_Goblinor at least thats what the trolls claimAug 21 08:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Windows 7 Refund: Microsoft Still Breaks the Law With OEMs, But Somehow Finds Apologists 21 08:55
TechrightsBotTitle: The Windows 7 Refund: Microsoft Still Breaks the Law With OEMs, But Somehow Finds Apologists | Techrights .::. Size~: 93.79 KBAug 21 08:55
_GoblinI will get a refund....I'll make damn sureAug 21 08:55
cubevectorwell I was a Xenix/Unix System V user back in the dayAug 21 08:56
cubevectorwe had curses :)Aug 21 08:56
cubevectordidn't even have X on itAug 21 08:56
_GoblinI must admit I do like the CL....been recently tarting up some of my scripts with dialog..Aug 21 08:57
cubevectorremember.... VGA support was introduced in release 2.3.0 Aug 21 08:57
cubevectorno perl, just awk :)Aug 21 08:58
_GoblinI don't think my experience with alternatives to Microsoft goes back as far as you.Aug 21 08:58
_GoblinI was Amiga then onto a Windows PC.Aug 21 08:58
cubevectorXenix was Microsoft for a while :-PAug 21 08:58
_Goblinsee?Aug 21 08:58
cubevectorthen it turned into SCO Unix System VAug 21 08:58
oiaohm_As time goes on need to use command line comes less required.Aug 21 08:58
cubevectorwhich was non-MicrosoftAug 21 08:58
cubevectorautotools?Aug 21 08:59
cubevectorawk?Aug 21 08:59
oiaohm_But windows trolls hate this fact.Aug 21 08:59
cubevectormogrify? :)Aug 21 08:59
cubevectorcomputers without X? :)Aug 21 08:59
oiaohm_How do you restart you network stack under windows when it locks up.Aug 21 08:59
_Goblina hammerAug 21 08:59
oiaohm_Command line.Aug 21 08:59
cubevectorno ideaAug 21 08:59
oiaohm_netsh winsock resetAug 21 08:59
oiaohm_Only thing that works.Aug 21 09:00
cubevectoroiaohm_, does that work on win95? :)Aug 21 09:00
oiaohm_win95 was sane.Aug 21 09:00
oiaohm_NT are not.Aug 21 09:00
_Goblinbrb lad is wanting to go on his slide in the garden.Aug 21 09:00
oiaohm_win9X start the network stack fresh each time.Aug 21 09:00
oiaohm_NT has a cache that lives threw reboots.Aug 21 09:01
cubevectorbtw, is there a way to switch between usb mouse and ps/2 mouse without restarting X?Aug 21 09:01
oiaohm_There will be.  cubevectorAug 21 09:01
cubevectorok, so not yet Aug 21 09:01
oiaohm_But I don't think that feature is merged yet.Aug 21 09:01
cubevectoroiaohm_, ok so you need command line so some stuff doesn't get killedAug 21 09:02
oiaohm_I have seen it as part of xi2Aug 21 09:02
cubevectorright?Aug 21 09:02
cubevectorrun important stuff in text only tty windowAug 21 09:02
cubevectoror as a serviceAug 21 09:03
oiaohm_Note netsh winsock reset also requires a reboot.Aug 21 09:03
cubevectorbahAug 21 09:03
cubevectorwhat is the point :)Aug 21 09:03
cubevectorjust rebootAug 21 09:03
oiaohm_just reboot and disk stored stuffed winsock state gets reloaded.Aug 21 09:04
oiaohm_So you windows networking is still dead.Aug 21 09:04
oiaohm_Yes Windows insanty.Aug 21 09:04
oiaohm_At least Linux is sane.Aug 21 09:04
oiaohm_Biggest issue is Video card memory has not be managed by the Linux kernel.Aug 21 09:05
oiaohm_Once that is fully managed by kernel stablity of graphical will increase and requirement of terminal might disappear for good.Aug 21 09:05
cubevectorI was looking at Xerox Star videos on youtube the other dayAug 21 09:07
cubevectorit was quite impressiveAug 21 09:07
cubevectorscreen = a piece of paperAug 21 09:07
oiaohm_Yes old Xerox tech makes you really ask why we have progressed so little.Aug 21 09:08
cubevectorlolAug 21 09:09
cubevectorwell I blame MicrosoftAug 21 09:09
cubevectorI'll go farther and say everyone copied Xerox, ironicallyAug 21 09:10
oiaohm_Yes that is a classic but true It history joke.Aug 21 09:11
oiaohm_Apple directly copied from Xerox research labs.Aug 21 09:11
cubevectorI'm not too clear on exactly what the OS was though on the Xerox StarAug 21 09:12
cubevectorPilot?Aug 21 09:13
cubevector 21 09:13
TechrightsBotTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 21 09:13
oiaohm_Pilot really was not just 1 OS either.  cubevectorAug 21 09:15
cubevector"Within Xerox, Mesa was eventually superseded by the Cedar programming language. Many Mesa programmers and developers left Xerox in 1985; some of them went to DEC Systems Research Center where they used their experience with Mesa in the design of Modula-2+, and later of Modula-3."Aug 21 09:16
oiaohm_  The main core part to the Xerox interface cubevectorAug 21 09:17
TechrightsBotTitle: InterPress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 19.06 KBAug 21 09:17
oiaohm_Yes Adobe has a direct blood line back to Xerox.  cubevectorAug 21 09:17
cubevectoreverything has a direct blood line back to Xerox it seemsAug 21 09:18
_Goblinright back....Aug 21 09:18
_Goblinthought the wife was going shopping...Aug 21 09:18
_Goblinunfortunately not..Aug 21 09:19
oiaohm_postscript and pdf idea both start from InterPressAug 21 09:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] RT @rahulsundaram Diverge from upstream in keyboard indicator and reaction #GNOMEAug 21 09:19
TechrightsBotTitle: SVUs blog  » Blog Archive   » Keyboard indicator in Ubuntu 10.10: Disclaimer .::. Size~: 28.28 KBAug 21 09:19
oiaohm_cubevector: somethings have direct.Aug 21 09:19
oiaohm_Somethings like Microsoft have indirect.Aug 21 09:19
oiaohm_The ones that are indirect are normally lower quality because key bits of information were lost.Aug 21 09:20
cubevectorMicrosoft should not have wonAug 21 09:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Pentagon Lawyers Consider Criminal Charges Against WikiLeaks 21 09:20
TechrightsBotTitle: - Pentagon Lawyers Consider Criminal Charges Against WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 73.75 KBAug 21 09:20
oiaohm_Really MS won because lot of companies had the idea the desktop computers would be nothing.  cubevectorAug 21 09:22
cubevectorApple had a monitor like the Xerox Star tooAug 21 09:22
cubevectorI don't think Xerox got into the PC clone scence Aug 21 09:23
cubevectorsceneAug 21 09:23
cubevectorthere's no Xerox computers aroundAug 21 09:23
cubevectora Star or an Alto would be worth big bucks nowAug 21 09:24
cubevectorit was Compaq that started with the clones I think?Aug 21 09:25
cubevectorand of course... "The term "IBM PC compatible" is now a historical description only since IBM has withdrawn from personal computer sales."Aug 21 09:26
cubevectorand of course, the eventual rise of Microsoft to dominate the OS spaceAug 21 09:27
cubevector"Thus, MS-DOS was for many years sold only as an OEM product. There was no Microsoft-branded MS-DOS: MS-DOS could not be purchased directly from Microsoft, and each OEM release was packaged with the trade dress of the given PC vendor."Aug 21 09:29
cubevectorI find it incredible IBM doesn't even sell PCs any moreAug 21 09:32
cubevectorso what do we have now? The Evil Wintel EmpireAug 21 09:34
cubevectorwell, that's not quite right, we have Lintel as well :)Aug 21 09:38
oiaohm_Xerox droped out before the PC clones appearedAug 21 09:42
oiaohm_Because Xerox though it was taking away from there main business.Aug 21 09:43
oiaohm_When Xerox dropped out Apple and Adobe started up.Aug 21 09:43
*_Goblin has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)Aug 21 09:47
cubevector 21 09:53
oiaohm_Australian election under way.Aug 21 09:54
oiaohm_Really I should care who wins.Aug 21 09:54
cubevectoroiaohm_, Xerox had a successor to the Star when Apple was already startedAug 21 09:56
cubevector 21 09:56
oiaohm_Apple early did not have graphical.Aug 21 09:56
oiaohm_When apple got Xerox stuff there GUI appeared. cubevectorAug 21 09:57
cubevectoryes but there was an overlapAug 21 09:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] RT Jbossgirl316 Total Economic Impact™Of Red Hat JBoss Enterprise Application Platform 21 09:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Total Economic Impact™Of Red Hat JBoss Enterprise Application Platform - jbossgirl's blog .::. Size~: 17.38 KBAug 21 09:58
cubevectorXerox 6085 was around when the Apple Lisa was aroundAug 21 09:58
cubevectorall the way up to 1989Aug 21 09:58
cubevector 21 09:59
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cubevectorI think the big problem was priceAug 21 09:59
cubevectorXerox was very expensiveAug 21 09:59
cubevectorbut Xerox didn't market their computers Aug 21 10:01
oiaohm_Lisa is the first Apples off the Xerox tech.Aug 21 10:01
cubevectorjust their copiersAug 21 10:01
cubevectoryesAug 21 10:01
oiaohm_Basically they were not competing with who they sold tech to.Aug 21 10:01
cubevectorbut the Xerox 6085 is new to meAug 21 10:01
cubevectorI never even heard about it beforeAug 21 10:01
oiaohm_I had.Aug 21 10:02
oiaohm_Thinking I had used 1.Aug 21 10:02
cubevectorI probably did see it once then forgotAug 21 10:02
cubevectorin a magazine or somethingAug 21 10:02
oiaohm_  Good readAug 21 10:03
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oiaohm_You will notice the numbers of truely independant OS releases a year are decreasing.Aug 21 10:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Getting ready to power down old PC and fire up #Sabayon on the new system...Aug 21 10:05
cubevectorHaiku, AROS, the BSDs, the LinuxesAug 21 10:07
cubevectorthose are the ones I hear about the mostAug 21 10:07
oiaohm_Look at historyAug 21 10:07
oiaohm_It was normally to have 5 to 8 a year.Aug 21 10:07
cubevectorharder and harder to make an OS I'd sayAug 21 10:09
oiaohm_And less attempting.Aug 21 10:09
oiaohm_You are also seeing that as well.Aug 21 10:09
oiaohm_There are less proto OS's every year as well.Aug 21 10:10
cubevectorwell I think OS design is a 4th year course at WaterlooAug 21 10:11
cubevectorbut not many people take that courseAug 21 10:12
cubevectoroiaohm_, 5 grand for a 6085Aug 21 10:13
cubevectornot sure what year... but you could buy them up to 1989Aug 21 10:14
cubevectorthen people turned to Sun's and probably just winclone boxesAug 21 10:14
cubevectoroops, price may have been much higher, more like $15KAug 21 10:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] lol.Started on my quest to get a refund for unwanted Windows 7. This screen says it all. #microsoft #insecure #mv 21 10:18
TechrightsBotTitle:  lol.Started on my quest to get a refund for unwanted Windows ... on Twitpic  .::. Size~: 10.65 KBAug 21 10:18
cubevectorI was crazy putting Linux on a 640x480 display with 16 megs of ram :)Aug 21 10:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] On phone now to customer services for Microsoft.Aug 21 10:25
cubevectorgood luck _goblin :)Aug 21 10:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Right....I want to talk to a human, but this number is all about activating and selling me more #microsoft "software".Aug 21 10:26
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] appears to talk to some human at Microsoft (unless Im spending money on "Onecare") Ive got to do it weekdays.Aug 21 10:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] They can also refund my phone bill when I get my Windows 7 refund.Aug 21 10:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] So...its onto the online "help" for Microsoft.... My quest to get my money back from #Microsoft continues.Aug 21 10:29
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] And the war against Wikileaks begins 21 11:19
TechrightsBotTitle: BBC News - Wikileaks founder accused of rape .::. Size~: 41.15 KBAug 21 11:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Julian Assange: the charges are without basis and their issue at this moment is deeply disturbing.Aug 21 11:21
Diablo-D3HAAug 21 11:22
Diablo-D3I reported the news before wikileaks did.Aug 21 11:22
Diablo-D3\o\ /o/Aug 21 11:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] If ya can't beat 'em, smear 'em 21 11:25
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] This is not how we operate #actaAug 21 12:03
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- ACTA 22 march 2010 stakeholder meeting 10/10 .::. Size~: 86.66 KBAug 21 12:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Kletskous: Er is geen democratische nachtmerrie; er is niet eens een democratie! 21 12:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Er is geen democratische nachtmerrie; er is niet eens een democratie! | Kletskous .::. Size~: 28.01 KBAug 21 12:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ffii] Jobs is the new terrorism #patents #ptoAug 21 12:47
TechrightsBotTitle: Slashdot Comments | Patent Office Ramps Up Patent Approvals .::. Size~: 38.14 KBAug 21 12:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @wikileaks Pentagon Lawyers Consider Criminal Charges Against WikiLeaks >does Amnesty Intl' plan charges v Pentagon?Aug 21 13:03
TechrightsBotTitle: - Pentagon Lawyers Consider Criminal Charges Against WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 73.75 KBAug 21 13:03
oiaohm_Looking like australia might end up with a hung palarment.Aug 21 13:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @thistleweb If ya can't beat 'em, smear 'em >does he also eat babies? /sarcasmAug 21 13:06
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*Diablo-D3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)Aug 21 13:07
*OsamaK (~Osama@fsf/member/osamak) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 13:14
*ThistleWeb (~gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 13:16
schestowitzThistleWeb: it's a good thing Julian has friendsAug 21 13:21
schestowitzOtherwise he can be 'fallen' down the stairsAug 21 13:21
schestowitz'pulling a Kelly'Aug 21 13:21
schestowitzSo rather than silence him they try to portray him as something dangerous to supportAug 21 13:21
ThistleWebyeah, it wasn't much of a surprise, this is the first of many smears I'd guess, all to discredit him and take up his time and resources, tying him down to specific locations to defend himselfAug 21 13:22
ThistleWebit's so obvious tooAug 21 13:22
schestowitzI remember in 2007 when some trolls used honeypots and stuff to say I was a child molesterAug 21 13:23
ThistleWebbut then when you're in that culture, you fail to see how obvious you're being, all the while thinking you're being ingeniously sneakyAug 21 13:23
schestowitzLarry Ellison was once falsely accused of harassmentAug 21 13:23
schestowitzThey sent the women who accused him to prisonAug 21 13:23
schestowitzAnd to this date, Ellison is smeared for her lieAug 21 13:23
ThistleWebsex / rape / chile is one of the best ones to use too, you're damned by the mere accusationAug 21 13:24
schestowitzSo I reckon maybe the Ops encouraged someone to make an allegationAug 21 13:24
schestowitzIf it's false, the Ops just blames the messengerAug 21 13:24
ThistleWeband the laws protect the victim, assuming there is oneAug 21 13:24
schestowitzMaybe they found some ex-g/fAug 21 13:24
schestowitzLet's see the articleAug 21 13:24
ThistleWeband if the charges are dropped after a while, plenty will assume no smoke without fieAug 21 13:25
schestowitz"Ms Rosander said there were two separate allegations against Mr Assange, one of rape and the other of molestation. "Aug 21 13:25
schestowitzNo details givenAug 21 13:25
ThistleWebif he is guilty, I'd want to see him face trial for it, but I highly doubt it. It has all the hallmarks of a smearAug 21 13:25
schestowitzIt's like filing a DMCA in YouTubeAug 21 13:25
schestowitzShoot firstAug 21 13:25
schestowitzAsk questions laterAug 21 13:25
schestowitz"The allegations were first reported in the Swedish newspaper Expressen."Aug 21 13:25
schestowitzThistleWeb: doesn't matter if it's true or flaseAug 21 13:26
schestowitz*falseAug 21 13:26
schestowitzWhen he's cleared, it's not newsAug 21 13:26
ThistleWebtrueAug 21 13:26
schestowitzLast week: 21 13:27
TechrightsBotTitle: Larry Ellison Goes Postal On Fortune Writer .::. Size~: 161.82 KBAug 21 13:27
schestowitz"Aug 21 13:27
schestowitzFrom:     Larry Ellison <>Aug 21 13:27
schestowitzSubject:     Hey JerkAug 21 13:27
ThistleWebI do think it'll just strengthen wikileaks though, being an obvious smear coincidentally after the US went ballistic at a leakAug 21 13:27
schestowitzDate:     August 11, 2010 1:00:55 PM EDTAug 21 13:27
schestowitzTo:     PHILIP ELMER-DEWITT <>Aug 21 13:27
schestowitzAdelyn Lee went to jail for a year for falsely accusing me of sexual harassment.  Why did you leave that out of your story you scum bag?  Let me guess … your job is telling half-truths.  Fortune Magazine must be very proud of you.Aug 21 13:27
schestowitz"Aug 21 13:27
schestowitzThistleWeb: yeah, but imagine people giving him awards and funding nowAug 21 13:28
schestowitzHe just won an award... unanimous voteAug 21 13:28
schestowitzMichael Moore gave him big fundsAug 21 13:28
ThistleWebit will put some off that's true, but for others it will just strengthenAug 21 13:28
schestowitzNow people will say, "you give money/prize to sex offender"Aug 21 13:28
ThistleWeblets face it, nobody knows what went on, if anything, other than those involved. All we have to go on is heresay, reported events etc So going on that you're organisation is set up to be a thorn in the side of govts who like to spin their own fantasy as truth, who you just release a HUGE file on, making them out to be liars again, they thene threaten you as a traitor, enemy of the state etc, call for your extradition (to assist their enAug 21 13:32
ThistleWebquiries of course), then an accusation comes out of nowhere for sex offensesAug 21 13:32
schestowitzThistleWeb: MSBBC was with the PEntagon all alongAug 21 13:32
schestowitzGlyn pointed this out, it's was so blatantAug 21 13:32
ThistleWebBBC are "establishment"Aug 21 13:33
schestowitzFOX...Aug 21 13:33
ThistleWebthey support the status quo because the status quo keeps their gravy train fueledAug 21 13:33
schestowitz[09:20] [Notice] -BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [wikileaks] Pentagon Lawyers Consider Criminal Charges Against WikiLeaks 21 13:33
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schestowitz[09:20] <TechrightsBot> Title: - Pentagon Lawyers Consider Criminal Charges Against WikiLeaks .::. Size~: 73.75 KBAug 21 13:33
schestowitzSame dayAug 21 13:33
schestowitzFrom Julian himself, I reckonAug 21 13:33
schestowitzThey can't sue himAug 21 13:34
schestowitzSo they find a proxy maybeAug 21 13:34
schestowitz[11:21] [Notice] -BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [wikileaks] Julian Assange: the charges are without basis and their issue at this moment is deeply disturbing.Aug 21 13:34
ThistleWeblol, a Neocon war based on lies and mistruths, promoted by a TV news station who support the Neocon view of the world, happens to smear very vocal critic who outs proof of said lies and half truths, not exactly a surpriseAug 21 13:35
schestowitzThey don't like him getting popular support from celebrities nowAug 21 13:35
schestowitz[21:37] [Notice] -BNtwitter to #boycottnovell- [qu1j0t3] >@JohnFugelsang NewsCorp gave $1m to GOP. nice 2 see billionaires taking care of the help //More like, Murdoch's the "help", #gop his clientAug 21 13:35
ThistleWebof course, it's a propaganda war, their word against his, and they have little credibilityAug 21 13:35
schestowitzNecon+Fox-MurdochAug 21 13:35
schestowitzAll same day, not that it's new.Aug 21 13:35
schestowitzMy friend David from the gym bought itAug 21 13:36
ThistleWebif it was more subtle they'd probs get away with it tooAug 21 13:36
schestowitzSome people I speak to think Julian is some ctyber-terro~1Aug 21 13:36
ThistleWebit's far to blatant to be believedAug 21 13:36
schestowitz"It was in the bbc.... MUST be true"Aug 21 13:36
schestowitzThis reminds me of what they did to Fisher in Japan. 21 13:37
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*ThistleWeb wonders if the next step will be some vague hints that the victim in question may have been underage, bringing the label of "pedo" to the fight, just to help lay on the pariah statusAug 21 13:38
schestowitz"Fischer lived for a time in Japan.[289] On July 13, 2004, acting in response to a letter from U.S. officials, he was arrested by Japanese immigration authorities at Narita International Airport near Tokyo for allegedly using a revoked US passport while trying to board a Japan Airlines flight to Ninoy Aquino International Airport in Manila, Philippines."Aug 21 13:38
schestowitzEventualoly Fisher went to IcelandAug 21 13:38
cubevectorFischer was kind of crazy though :)Aug 21 13:38
schestowitzAfter years in jail wituout chargesAug 21 13:38
schestowitzJulian should have gone to IcelandAug 21 13:38
cubevectorhe just went too farAug 21 13:38
schestowitzThey protect sites like Wikileaks nowAug 21 13:38
schestowitzcubevector: he didAug 21 13:39
cubevectorI listened to most of his radio interviewsAug 21 13:39
schestowitzcubevector: eccentric as a kid, but I think driven over the edge after he was bullied with sanctions and allAug 21 13:39
schestowitzDidja?Aug 21 13:39
cubevectorand ripped off by cultsAug 21 13:39
cubevectoryesAug 21 13:39
schestowitzYeah, he was in some Chritian cult, IIRCAug 21 13:40
schestowitzIn the WestAug 21 13:40
ThistleWeboh did you see the US welcome insiders who want to offer them annonymous relation to the Scottich govt / BP gas deal / Libya / Locherbie caseAug 21 13:40
ThistleWebfunny that, they welcome and promote whistlewblowersAug 21 13:40
schestowitzLocherbie was in the news todayAug 21 13:40
schestowitzSomething about possible framingAug 21 13:40
ThistleWeboh wait.....thats right, unless it's THEIR people, blowing the whistle on THEIR activities, then they're enemiesAug 21 13:41
schestowitzNow Nader gets tghe "racist" labelAug 21 13:41
ThistleWebbut when its whistleblowers acting in THIER interests, it's all good and honourableAug 21 13:41
schestowitzI spoke about this with my great aunt a while agoAug 21 13:41
schestowitzBasically she has seen him smeared for many decadesAug 21 13:41
ThistleWebnader is a maverick outside of the status quoAug 21 13:42
schestowitz"Either you're with us, or you're with the terrrorists" -BushAug 21 13:42
ThistleWebthe status quo powere many gravy trainsAug 21 13:42
schestowitzI guess Julian is with Al Qaeda now :-)Aug 21 13:42
ThistleWebpowersAug 21 13:42
cubevectorlol, Nader isn't racistAug 21 13:42
schestowitzHe's notAug 21 13:42
ThistleWeblol, you can call me alAug 21 13:42
schestowitzHe's from a Labenese familyAug 21 13:42
schestowitzHe explained his remarksAug 21 13:42
cubevectorNader's probably one of the best guys out thereAug 21 13:42
schestowitzNot based on the mediaAug 21 13:43
schestowitzThe big mediaAug 21 13:43
schestowitzNot alt. mediaAug 21 13:43
cubevectorhe's an outsider, yeahAug 21 13:43
schestowitzIn Fox they bring him on just to lash himAug 21 13:43
schestowitzAnd then "oh, it's time for commercials.."Aug 21 13:43
schestowitzConcision constraintms, Chomsky explained it wellAug 21 13:43
schestowitzOnly sound bites allowed :-)Aug 21 13:43
cubevectorbahAug 21 13:44
cubevectordon't even go thenAug 21 13:44
schestowitzIt would be nice if the BBC let Julian write a culumnAug 21 13:44
cubevectordo youtube or whateverAug 21 13:44
schestowitzThey let BillG writes columns in the BBCAug 21 13:44
ThistleWebboth sides in the US know that they'll always be both sides, both are corrupt and established enough that the money will flow regardless of who's in govt, and it's an easy predictable game of polar opposites to play in the media to hoodwink them, a maverick allows people to hope there's an alternative from the other 2Aug 21 13:44
cubevectornews is just infotainment nowAug 21 13:44
schestowitz"He's rich, so he knows better than anyone" :-)Aug 21 13:44
cubevectorhe knows money, yesAug 21 13:45
ThistleWebthe last thing they want is to let the idea of a thrid party growAug 21 13:45
schestowitzLike in the UK?Aug 21 13:45
schestowitzWith coalition...Aug 21 13:45
schestowitzThey can coopt the underdogsAug 21 13:45
schestowitzLook at Google...Aug 21 13:45
ThistleWeba third party candidate can swing the balance in an ellection too, taking votes away from soemone who could have won had it been a traditional 2 horse raceAug 21 13:45
cubevectorwe have more than 3 parties already hereAug 21 13:45
schestowitzTamed by CIA...Aug 21 13:45
schestowitzHired Matt CuttsAug 21 13:46
cubevectorcons, libs, greens, the bloc, NDP :)Aug 21 13:46
ThistleWeboh, ya see Ed Miliband (I think) now claim that his mani goal is to make the LibDems extinct?Aug 21 13:46
cubevectorprobably othersAug 21 13:46
ThistleWebso much for the positive "I'm in this to try and make the country better"Aug 21 13:46
cubevectorummmAug 21 13:47
ThistleWebit's not "I want to kill off one the third party, leaving us and the tories as a 2 party state"Aug 21 13:47
ThistleWebnow*Aug 21 13:47
ThistleWebit was in the gaurdianAug 21 13:47
cubevectorBritish, right?Aug 21 13:47
ThistleWebyepAug 21 13:47
ThistleWebthat's why he's constantly picking at the libdem end of the coalition, "ah but you promised this now your doing that"Aug 21 13:48
schestowitzThistleWeb: the word "entryism" comes form politicsAug 21 13:48
ThistleWebhe claims Charles Kennedy is about to defect to labour, dunno how true that isAug 21 13:48
schestowitzI use it to explain computer industry tacticsAug 21 13:48
schestowitzAnd many examples exist where parties were hijackedAug 21 13:48
schestowitzYou change their agenda by opening door through one entrantAug 21 13:49
cubevectorschestowitz, we had a good conversation about Xerox earlierAug 21 13:49
ThistleWebhe's trying to split the libdems, claiming the deal with the tories has cause a lot of libdems are unhappy enough to defectAug 21 13:49
schestowitzAnd you can keep the same name and voters for different agendaAug 21 13:49
cubevectoranyways :)Aug 21 13:49
schestowitz 21 13:49
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schestowitzSee Yahoo! for exampleAug 21 13:49
ThistleWebkennedy is popular with the libdem votersAug 21 13:49
schestowitzUsed to be anti-MicrosoftAug 21 13:49
cubevectorthe world is kind of messed upAug 21 13:49
schestowitzNow it's Carol shining SteveB's bootsAug 21 13:49
schestowitzcubevector: yeah :-)Aug 21 13:50
cubevectorI can't believe _Goblin bought a win7 computerAug 21 13:50
schestowitzThe Internet makes it moire visibleAug 21 13:50
cubevectornow he's trying to get a doze refund Aug 21 13:50
schestowitzHe bought a computerAug 21 13:50
schestowitzIt was saddledAug 21 13:50
cubevectorschestowitz, Xerox was selling there high end 6085 boxes up until 1989Aug 21 13:51
schestowitzIt's important because of Goblin succeeds others will do the sameAug 21 13:51
cubevectortheirAug 21 13:51
schestowitzIf they cave in, they open the floodgatesAug 21 13:51
cubevectorhmmmAug 21 13:51
cubevectorI'd rather not have to bother with the doze refundAug 21 13:52
oiaohm_Really it could be worse than what Goblin dreams.Aug 21 13:52
ThistleWebwindows refund is pot luck with vendors, most owntAug 21 13:52
ThistleWebwont*Aug 21 13:52
schestowitzHe need to photograph the screenAug 21 13:52
oiaohm_I know part of my system builder agreement with windows 7 I do have to process refunds.Aug 21 13:52
ThistleWebeven thought they shouldAug 21 13:52
schestowitzWorked with Dell/CPQ IIRCAug 21 13:52
schestowitzPeople stoppedtalking about Windows refundsAug 21 13:52
schestowitzSome years backAug 21 13:53
schestowitzFor no good reasonAug 21 13:53
cubevectorbuild you own, or buy used is my methodAug 21 13:53
schestowitzExcept Linux preinstalls existingAug 21 13:53
schestowitzNot for each model thoughAug 21 13:53
ThistleWebthey just point you to different placesAug 21 13:53
cubevectorjust give me blankAug 21 13:53
oiaohm_Vista most vendors getting refund was just a minor arguement.Aug 21 13:53
schestowitzThistleWeb: until they point back and forthAug 21 13:53
schestowitzThat's where they get trappedAug 21 13:53
oiaohm_Dell was a pain in ass I had to say I wanted the machine OS blank with no licence.Aug 21 13:53
schestowitzAnd then you tell them, "been there already"Aug 21 13:53
schestowitzThen they give you supervisor or somethingAug 21 13:54
schestowitzDaemonFC achieved a lot this wayAug 21 13:54
schestowitzSamsung played this game with himAug 21 13:54
ThistleWebthey dont expect peeps to ask, so have no authoritative reply to give, each part of the chain thinks it's someone elses problemAug 21 13:54
schestowitzThey broken downAug 21 13:54
schestowitz*BrokeAug 21 13:54
oiaohm_Then they insanely accused me of being a pirated and did not like being told that since I was a system builder I was allowed to OEM there hardware.Aug 21 13:54
schestowitzAnd make all the sources available, even apologised to himAug 21 13:54
oiaohm_So making my support of it simpler.Aug 21 13:54
ThistleWeband it's not in MS's interests to clarifiy itAug 21 13:54
schestowitz]SFLC was less impressed cause it can make Samsung bitterAug 21 13:54
cubevectorjust tell them you run AROS oiaohm_ :)Aug 21 13:54
cubevectorthat will shut them upAug 21 13:55
schestowitzAnd cause SFLC didn't make $$$$$$$$4 out of itAug 21 13:55
schestowitzSeems like SFLC loves $$$Aug 21 13:55
oiaohm_I am a MS partner that they can look up cubevectorAug 21 13:55
oiaohm_They shut up faster that way.Aug 21 13:55
schestowitzOr maybe Eben is the one I heard accused of thatAug 21 13:55
oiaohm_Ie I am allowed to ask for OS less.Aug 21 13:55
cubevectorah well then...Aug 21 13:55
cubevectoryou're probably better off than most on that scoreAug 21 13:56
oiaohm_Even that I was installing Linux on the machines when I got them.Aug 21 13:56
oiaohm_I came a registered partner for many reasons.Aug 21 13:56
oiaohm_One I can get access to MS docs on problems simpler. Aug 21 13:57
oiaohm_2 I don't have to argue hard with a lot of OEMs particularly when I can send them copies of the system builder contracts and say follow.Aug 21 13:57
oiaohm_Note system builder contract is on the box your OEM software comes out of .Aug 21 13:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Tadag Complains That #Microsoft Stabbed it in the Back While Pretending to be ‘Partners’ 21 13:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Tadag Complains That Microsoft Stabbed it in the Back While Pretending to be Partners | Techrights .::. Size~: 93.81 KBAug 21 13:58
cubevectorI sell used laptops a fair bitAug 21 13:59
cubevectormake them dual-bootAug 21 14:00
cubevectorseems to keep people fairly happyAug 21 14:00
oiaohm_I aquire new a lot.Aug 21 14:00
oiaohm_second hand normally becomes workshop fooder.Aug 21 14:01
cubevectorso you can get blank laptops then?Aug 21 14:01
oiaohm_YepAug 21 14:01
cubevectorexcellentAug 21 14:01
oiaohm_Windows 7 hardware has made my live harder.Aug 21 14:02
oiaohm_Due to the alterations they can simple refuse to unbundle.Aug 21 14:02
cubevectorsome day I'll have a laptop with corebootAug 21 14:02
oiaohm_Ie if it has XP I can get it OS less for sure.Aug 21 14:03
cubevectorit's the embedded controller that makes things difficultAug 21 14:03
cubevectordocumentation is hard to come byAug 21 14:03
oiaohm_HP and Dell  I can with a little arguement.Aug 21 14:03
oiaohm_Get any model of laptop without a OS.Aug 21 14:03
oiaohm_People don't for a extra fee you can get Dell and HP machines without junk software.Aug 21 14:04
oiaohm_And for a little above that you can have your own OS image or lack there of placed on the machine.Aug 21 14:04
cubevectorer, for an extra fee? :)Aug 21 14:04
cubevectorhow about blank with a discount?Aug 21 14:04
oiaohm_About 25 dollars on the price of the machine.Aug 21 14:04
oiaohm_Serousally with the crap the put on you are not paying for windows cubevectorAug 21 14:05
oiaohm_Windows on there is a discount.Aug 21 14:05
oiaohm_Yes some cases its just cheeper to format over the top.Aug 21 14:06
cubevectorit's also a philosophical issue, not just a money issueAug 21 14:06
oiaohm_I am looking forward to Linux supporting fanotifyAug 21 14:06
oiaohm_Then we can start having anti-virus companies pay for there product on Linux.Aug 21 14:07
*ThistleWeb has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Aug 21 14:07
oiaohm_So bringing windows and Linux to equal discount level.Aug 21 14:07
cubevectoroiaohm_, I hang out in #coreboot and I've really learned a lot from those folksAug 21 14:07
cubevectorin september I build some new coreboot systemsAug 21 14:07
oiaohm_Yes I know lots of Linux people hate the idea of crapsoftware on Linux.Aug 21 14:07
oiaohm_Dell HP and others don't realy pay for the OS.Aug 21 14:08
oiaohm_The bundled crap software pays for the OS>Aug 21 14:08
cubevectorbut I just want blank :)Aug 21 14:08
cubevectorsurely that is easy for themAug 21 14:08
oiaohm_With HP and Dell that is pay extra.Aug 21 14:09
cubevectorok, or just don't sell me a hard drive, I'll put one inAug 21 14:09
oiaohm_To make up for the discount they will not get.Aug 21 14:09
cubevectorhow big a discount?Aug 21 14:09
oiaohm_Some cases due to the discount the laptop without harddrive is the same price as the laptop with harddrive in with windows7Aug 21 14:09
oiaohm_Yes for real.Aug 21 14:09
cubevectorI'll just buy a used panasonic toughbook and remove the doze stickersAug 21 14:10
oiaohm_The ammount of money the junk kicks backAug 21 14:10
cubevectorsee? I've jumped out of the ridiculous system :)Aug 21 14:10
oiaohm_Now in theory Linux with the ammount of kick back windows gives.Aug 21 14:10
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oiaohm_A 700 dollar machine could be free cubevectorAug 21 14:10
oiaohm_But filled with junk.Aug 21 14:11
cubevectoryeah I could do win7 commercials and get a free laptopAug 21 14:11
cubevectorbut I won't do thatAug 21 14:11
oiaohm_Microsoft stores are having problems.Aug 21 14:12
oiaohm_Trying to get hardware makers to make machines a decent price without crap installed.Aug 21 14:12
cubevectorand reprogramming bioses gives new life to old systemsAug 21 14:12
cubevectorthe status quo sucks basicallyAug 21 14:13
cubevectoror to put it another way, the OEM situation sucksAug 21 14:14
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oiaohm_100 percent agree cubevectorAug 21 14:15
oiaohm_I will get people OS less machines if they want.Aug 21 14:16
oiaohm_But they do have to accept the facts of the mess that most of them cost more.Aug 21 14:16
cubevectoroiaohm_, really my next box will probably be used Sun pizza boxAug 21 14:16
oiaohm_I do have some business customers who demard OS less with OEM packages provided not stuck on.Aug 21 14:17
cubevectorlighter, easier to shipAug 21 14:17
oiaohm_Any ideas why cubevectorAug 21 14:17
oiaohm_Most people have not read the system builder contract.Aug 21 14:17
oiaohm_If you stick the sticker on you are the system builder.Aug 21 14:17
cubevectorI've never even seen a system builder contractAug 21 14:17
oiaohm_So if the machine dies you have the right to transfer the licence between machines.Aug 21 14:17
oiaohm_No matter what.Aug 21 14:18
cubevectorI usually take the stickers off :)Aug 21 14:18
cubevectoroh okAug 21 14:18
oiaohm_Yes even if the machine is not dead.Aug 21 14:19
cubevectorso if the power supply pops you can transfer the license?Aug 21 14:19
oiaohm_Nothing has to break.Aug 21 14:19
oiaohm_Just you decide that another machine could be better off with that licence that is enough.Aug 21 14:19
oiaohm_As a system builder cubevectorAug 21 14:20
cubevectorbut could any white box system builder do that?Aug 21 14:20
oiaohm_There is a catch of course.Aug 21 14:20
oiaohm_It must be a machine you put the sticker on to be able to transfer it.Aug 21 14:20
oiaohm_Yes any white box system builder can do it with any sticker they stick on.Aug 21 14:21
cubevectorthat's good to knowAug 21 14:21
oiaohm_Can you now see why system builders demard no OS sticker on.Aug 21 14:21
cubevectorwhen I built white box systems, I never put any stickers onAug 21 14:22
cubevectora linux sticker maybe :)Aug 21 14:23
oiaohm_You are required as a system builder if you install the OS to stick the sticker on.Aug 21 14:23
oiaohm_Ie install windowsAug 21 14:23
cubevectorbut what if it's dual-boot? :)Aug 21 14:23
oiaohm_Even installing windows inside a virtual machine for client you must stick the sticker on.Aug 21 14:24
cubevectorwhat if I'm not installing windows? you knew that was coming ;-)Aug 21 14:25
cubevectorI do have linux customersAug 21 14:25
oiaohm_Then Windows system builder contract does not apply.Aug 21 14:25
oiaohm_Linux side there are not many limits.Aug 21 14:25
oiaohm_But I normally like to provide them with selection of cases stickers as a freebie.Aug 21 14:26
cubevectorI don't even really want to sell windows... blarghAug 21 14:26
cubevectorthat would be badAug 21 14:26
oiaohm_Same here.Aug 21 14:26
oiaohm_I am the server builder and maintainer as well.Aug 21 14:26
oiaohm_2008 is a pain in ass its heavy remote.Aug 21 14:27
oiaohm_2003 you could rdp over a dialup connection no problems.Aug 21 14:27
oiaohm_2008 don't dare try that.Aug 21 14:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] .@wjhuie Thx for feedback. True: lock-in costs are hardware, software, services. But: IBM has 40% share of $24.5bn #mainframe SW market.Aug 21 14:28
oiaohm_I prefer Linux servers.  openssh is darn light.Aug 21 14:28
cubevectoreven vector is a bit heavyAug 21 14:29
cubevectorlet's say middleweightAug 21 14:29
oiaohm_Have you ever used 2008 rdpAug 21 14:29
oiaohm_It needs about 128 KB connection min to be responsive.Aug 21 14:29
cubevectornopeAug 21 14:29
oiaohm_128 KB/sAug 21 14:29
cubevectorsounds awful :)Aug 21 14:30
oiaohm_Connection.Aug 21 14:30
cubevectorI'm on 512K at the moment, but still...Aug 21 14:30
oiaohm_Yes particularly thinking when I am over quota I am stick at 64 kB/sAug 21 14:30
cubevector5Mbps ratherAug 21 14:30
oiaohm_My home account is down right cheep.Aug 21 14:31
oiaohm_30 dollars a month.Aug 21 14:31
cubevector42 per month for meAug 21 14:32
oiaohm_Full ADSL 1 speeds and 15 G of quota.Aug 21 14:32
oiaohm_Yes suxs but cheep.Aug 21 14:32
cubevectorumm 15 gigs seems kind of smallAug 21 14:32
cubevectornot sure what my limit isAug 21 14:33
oiaohm_All my Linux updates don't count to quota.Aug 21 14:33
oiaohm_And most of the sites I visit don't either.Aug 21 14:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Decides to Embrace and Extend ‘Plugfest’ #ooxml #odf #pllugfest #deception #warispeaceAug 21 14:33
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cubevectorwell that's not bad thenAug 21 14:33
oiaohm_Nothing strange to pulling 20 to 40 gb in the free quota per month.Aug 21 14:33
oiaohm_Also ISP part hates me.Aug 21 14:34
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oiaohm_Every time I have run out of quota I have normally managed to pull in a 15 gb at dial up speed.Aug 21 14:34
oiaohm_Months when I break it I normally break it half way threw month.Aug 21 14:35
oiaohm_The plan I am on is not even ment to be provided in my area cubevectorAug 21 14:35
oiaohm_It was the cheepest with the most quota on there books.Aug 21 14:35
cubevectorare you torrenting OS ISOs?Aug 21 14:35
oiaohm_I don't run any p2pAug 21 14:36
oiaohm_That is all legal content.Aug 21 14:36
cubevectorumm, yeah but so is torrenting Linux/BSD/AROS yes?Aug 21 14:36
cubevectornothing illegal about thatAug 21 14:36
cubevectorI suppose you could just use ftpAug 21 14:37
cubevectorI do like to try new OSesAug 21 14:38
cubevectorFOSS of courseAug 21 14:38
oiaohm_At the rates I downloadAug 21 14:39
oiaohm_Anyone torrenting off me would be complaining.Aug 21 14:39
oiaohm_Note I do have a decated machine for downloading.   cubevectorAug 21 14:40
oiaohm_The decated machine only pulls about 20W of power running full load.Aug 21 14:41
oiaohm_Yes I am kinda a ISP nightmare.   I set up equal at work for getting resources for work.Aug 21 14:41
cubevectorget AX.25 working then :)Aug 21 14:44
cubevectornot sure but the download speeds might be very slowAug 21 14:44
cubevectorsome day I'll try itAug 21 14:44
oiaohm_Its slow.Aug 21 14:45
oiaohm_I am currently looking at some of the routers with usb ports.Aug 21 14:45
oiaohm_To custom to reduce my powerusageAug 21 14:45
oiaohm_And still allow me to hammer ISP.Aug 21 14:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[wikileaks] Official statement about the latest hot topic @ http://blog.wikileaks.orgAug 21 14:55
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] 'LinuxTrends; Linux distribution popularity trends plotted' Interesting analysis based on Google searches.Aug 21 15:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @AshevilleFM: SATURDAY SAGE is on and giving up a few guilty pleasures! #avlmusic Me: Excellent music. Check it.Aug 21 15:09
TechrightsBotTitle: LinuxTrends  » Linux distribution popularity trends plotted .::. Size~: 40.91 KBAug 21 15:09
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Campaigner for Hire Blames #IBM for Air Crash 21 15:11
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Is having a bad dose of the hiccups a good enough reason for a bomb disposal officer to have time off?Aug 21 15:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What Do PCS Members (and Metropolitan Police) Use on the Desktop #uk #windows #unixAug 21 15:31
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DaemonFCschestowitz: They assassinated that Wikileaks guyAug 21 15:57
DaemonFCcharacter assassinationAug 21 15:57
DaemonFCsuddenly he's wanted on rape charges in SwedenAug 21 15:58
ThistleWebmaybe it's a patent infrinegement on some GM oilseed rape seedsAug 21 15:58
gnufreexDaemonFC: No shit? They killed wikileaks guy?Aug 21 15:58
DaemonFCgnufreex: They're running hit pieces on himAug 21 15:59
DaemonFC 21 15:59
TechrightsBotTitle:  Wikileaks founder Julian Assange accused of rape | Media |  .::. Size~: 71.85 KBAug 21 15:59
DaemonFCYou wouldn't defend a RAPIST would you?Aug 21 15:59
DaemonFC;)Aug 21 15:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: ha, as expectedAug 21 15:59
FurnaceBoyand in sweden no less. very clever.Aug 21 16:00
DaemonFCThistleWeb: Don't worry about the GM crops growing in the wildAug 21 16:00
DaemonFCI'm sure the taxpayers will be kind enough to pay the Feds to go out there and burn them allAug 21 16:00
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:00
ThistleWebgnufreex: nah DaemonFC likes misleading headlines just as much as bloggers and news writersAug 21 16:01
gnufreexHahaAug 21 16:01
DaemonFCcharacter assassination is cleanerAug 21 16:01
DaemonFCno corpse to dispose ofAug 21 16:01
DaemonFCI was watching that David Hasselhoff roast last nightAug 21 16:02
DaemonFC"What to do with this dead hooker?" "I know, hide her in one of your movies, she'll never be seen again!"Aug 21 16:02
DaemonFC:DAug 21 16:02
DaemonFCschestowitz uses rapists as source material, that makes him a terroristAug 21 16:04
DaemonFCB-)Aug 21 16:04
DaemonFCfreedom haterAug 21 16:04
DaemonFChe'll probably go bomb some buses now or somethingAug 21 16:04
DaemonFC:PAug 21 16:04
FurnaceBoy...Aug 21 16:05
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Well, you see, if this was 1980 I could probably still call him a CommunistAug 21 16:06
DaemonFCbut that's kind of dated nowAug 21 16:06
DaemonFCBut he dares mock the "One True God"(TM), which everybody knows is a combination of companies with patents on the human genome who genetically modified our food supply to grow betterAug 21 16:07
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:07
DaemonFCso that instantly makes him rather Taliban-ish you seeAug 21 16:07
FurnaceBoyyou laugh, but that's pretty much how your system worksAug 21 16:08
FurnaceBoyto challenge the corporation is to become an apostateAug 21 16:08
FurnaceBoyin particular, the MICAug 21 16:08
DaemonFCwell, doesn't having patents on the human genome kind of border on Godliness?Aug 21 16:08
DaemonFCif you really think about it?Aug 21 16:08
FurnaceBoythat's backwardsAug 21 16:08
DaemonFCMonsanto feeds the hungryAug 21 16:09
FurnaceBoyorlyAug 21 16:09
DaemonFCyeahAug 21 16:09
DaemonFCthey make fish reproduceAug 21 16:09
DaemonFCand more wheat for breadAug 21 16:09
FurnaceBoy...Aug 21 16:09
FurnaceBoyi've heard this crap from other americansAug 21 16:09
DaemonFCMonsanto is the demigod formerly known as JesusAug 21 16:09
FurnaceBoyare you delirious?Aug 21 16:10
DaemonFCnoAug 21 16:10
schestowitzAug 21 16:10
DaemonFCjust being sarcasticAug 21 16:10
schestowitz[16:09] <DaemonFC> Monsanto feeds the hungryAug 21 16:10
schestowitz(C)Aug 21 16:10
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] ACTA Round Ten Concludes in Washington: Deal May Be One Month Away, Updated Text To Remain Secret 21 16:10
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: more funny stuff. he doesn't seem to think these are serious issues...Aug 21 16:10
DaemonFCjust like BP is a company that goes around cleaning the oceansAug 21 16:10
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it's a coping mechanism, i guess.Aug 21 16:10
schestowitzI think he doesAug 21 16:10
DaemonFCafter those freak accidents they had nothing to do withAug 21 16:10
DaemonFCat allAug 21 16:10
schestowitzryan is a trollAug 21 16:10
schestowitzSo he tried to provoke by repeating their euphemismsAug 21 16:11
FurnaceBoyyesAug 21 16:11
DaemonFCschestowitz: "We will make this right!"Aug 21 16:11
schestowitzMonsanto feed hunger....Aug 21 16:11
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: we see the media tooAug 21 16:11
schestowitzWhose hunger?Aug 21 16:11
DaemonFCit sounds like an abusive spouse who has been served with a restraining orderAug 21 16:11
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: we don't need you to repeat the liesAug 21 16:11
schestowitzHunger for cash :-Aug 21 16:11
DaemonFCyet calls you anywayAug 21 16:11
schestowitzPreying on the gullibleAug 21 16:12
DaemonFCEli Lilly heals the infirmAug 21 16:12
schestowitzA friend's wife explained to me why it's effectiveAug 21 16:12
DaemonFCalong with GlaxoSmithKline!Aug 21 16:12
schestowitzThey don't know what troll meansAug 21 16:12
schestowitzOr AstroTurfingAug 21 16:12
DaemonFCand AstraZeneca!Aug 21 16:12
schestowitzWhat's obvious trolling to us others read slowly and digest like it's Monsanto breakfast !1 :-)Aug 21 16:13
DaemonFCAstraZeneca miraculously lowers your cholesterol by poisoning your liverAug 21 16:13
schestowitzDaemonFC: GSK=BillGAug 21 16:13
schestowitzTheir Hea;th HeadAug 21 16:13
schestowitzHe put the cartel in chargeAug 21 16:13
schestowitzAnd the CFO tooAug 21 16:13
DaemonFCand GSK sells those lovely blood pressure pills that damage your kidneysAug 21 16:13
schestowitzTheir new CEO is from MicrosoftRaikesAug 21 16:13
DaemonFCthen sells you the dialysis to keep you alive after thatAug 21 16:13
DaemonFCB-)Aug 21 16:13
schestowitzTheir GSK guy is a crookAug 21 16:14
schestowitzHe bullied scientistsAug 21 16:14
schestowitzHeld under charges for itAug 21 16:14
schestowitzBut don't worryAug 21 16:14
DaemonFCyou can get those by going to the MD you knowAug 21 16:14
DaemonFCjust ask for the shit you saw on TVAug 21 16:14
schestowitzGates Foundies only hire the best... bulliesAug 21 16:14
DaemonFCit papers over your depression too!Aug 21 16:14
schestowitzYoshidaAug 21 16:14
DaemonFCbut may cause suicideAug 21 16:14
DaemonFC:DAug 21 16:14
schestowitzYeahAug 21 16:14
schestowitzSide effectsAug 21 16:15
schestowitzBut mostly helpfulAug 21 16:15
DaemonFCdon't worry, when you botch your suicide attempt, they'll get you addicted to their pain pillsAug 21 16:15
schestowitzDon't demonise scienceAug 21 16:15
schestowitzDaemoniseFCAug 21 16:15
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:15
DaemonFCyeah, all that scienceAug 21 16:15
DaemonFCdon't worry if you can't afford it, other taxpayers will take care of this nowAug 21 16:15
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:15
DaemonFCyou ever notice that they put you on more of their pills to cover up the nasty side effects caused by the first pills they gave you?Aug 21 16:16
DaemonFCit never ends until you're a walking pharmacyAug 21 16:16
DaemonFCstocked with all their most expensive bullshitAug 21 16:16
DaemonFCschestowitz: It ceased being ethical science when the pills stopped actually making people better and started deliberately making them sicker and in need of purchasing more pillsAug 21 16:17
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:17
DaemonFCI don't know what you call it, but I think it's at least as exploitative as any scam hucksterAug 21 16:18
DaemonFCpossibly worseAug 21 16:18
DaemonFCwe've been over that before, at least the scammers just take your money and give you bottles of water as a placeboAug 21 16:19
DaemonFCthe doctors give you a chain of expensive poisonAug 21 16:19
DaemonFCso you lose your money as they actively poison youAug 21 16:19
DaemonFCmedical science is where the GM crop bio-sciences are atAug 21 16:20
DaemonFCbeyond anything more than a charade of good willAug 21 16:20
DaemonFCThe doctor cares about me getting better about as much as Monsanto cares about feeding the hungry with their GM cropsAug 21 16:21
DaemonFCMDs and Pharma are two sides of the same coinAug 21 16:21
DaemonFCthe MDs are just the pushers, the pharma industry is like the bulk supplierAug 21 16:22
DaemonFCschestowitz: Notice how there's no cures for anything important anymore?Aug 21 16:22
DaemonFCThey spend billions researching how to give a 90 year old man an erection and a full head of hairAug 21 16:22
DaemonFCIt would be better if people just realized that after about 40, the decay management is usually a losing battleAug 21 16:24
cubevector120 is possibleAug 21 16:25
DaemonFCthen we could research actual cures (not treatments) which are affordable (not $1,000 a month for the rest of your to actual diseases (AIDS, not male pattern baldness), which affect humanity (not just men over 65 with government health insurance)Aug 21 16:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bogus #Oracle Patents, Broken USPTO, Apple's #Patent Aggression, and #Acacia Gets More Money to Troll #Gosling #swpatsAug 21 16:25
TechrightsBotTitle: Bogus Oracle Patents, Broken USPTO, Apples Patent Aggression, and Acacia Gets More Money to Troll | Techrights .::. Size~: 100.96 KBAug 21 16:25
cubevectormaybe even longer is possibleAug 21 16:25
DaemonFC*rest of your lifeAug 21 16:25
DaemonFCthen maybe after that, they could sell the cure for the $5 it took to make the bottle of pillsAug 21 16:26
DaemonFCrather than get monopolies on itAug 21 16:26
DaemonFCand charge $300 a bottleAug 21 16:26
cubevector$300 a bottle for life extension pills? bargainAug 21 16:26
DaemonFCif you want to talk about all the great things medical science has done, it pretty much ends after 1970Aug 21 16:27
cubevectorthey could sell those :)Aug 21 16:27
DaemonFCunless you're richAug 21 16:27
DaemonFCthen they'll save youAug 21 16:27
schestowitzWould you rather die early/Aug 21 16:27
cubevectornot reallyAug 21 16:28
DaemonFCI'd rather just die whenever it's supposed to happenAug 21 16:28
DaemonFCthan to accelerate it and pay for them to do it to meAug 21 16:28
cubevectorI'll buy the life extension pills, if they existedAug 21 16:28
schestowitzDaemonFC: last year thenAug 21 16:28
schestowitzwhen you collapse naked in your houseAug 21 16:28
DaemonFCthe UN wants to make the life expectancy shorterAug 21 16:28
DaemonFCfor the peasants anywayAug 21 16:28
DaemonFCschestowitz: I would have recovered just as well without any helpAug 21 16:28
DaemonFCas what they didAug 21 16:29
DaemonFCthey merely pumped me full of drugs so I'd quit seizuring long enough to get the fuck out of the rich people's ERAug 21 16:29
DaemonFCin strict minimal compliance with the lawAug 21 16:29
DaemonFCfuck themAug 21 16:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: notice that the 'rape charges' thing has disappeared already.Aug 21 16:29
DaemonFCand their pillsAug 21 16:29
cubevectorcalorie reduction will improve life expectancyAug 21 16:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: gosh, you know, maybe it was a fabrication?Aug 21 16:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: cui bono?Aug 21 16:30
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy: Yes, I said thatAug 21 16:30
DaemonFCcharacter assassination kind of implies that the charges are bogusAug 21 16:31
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:31
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: no, you didn't say the charges already evaporated and he's no longer 'wanted in sweden'.Aug 21 16:31
FurnaceBoythat's our job, apparently.Aug 21 16:31
FurnaceBoyyou only feed the bullsh!tAug 21 16:31
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: thanks, you are doing quite a service thereAug 21 16:31
DaemonFCOK, the Swedish government issued the warrant, and the British newspapers reported itAug 21 16:32
DaemonFCwho do you figure is pulling the strings?Aug 21 16:32
FurnaceBoy 21 16:32
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / David W: Just like that; Sweden say ... .::. Size~: 8.88 KBAug 21 16:32
DaemonFCgood dogsAug 21 16:32
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you work it out and tell us.Aug 21 16:32
DaemonFCthey do what they're toldAug 21 16:32
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:32
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: do you read the UK Guardian?Aug 21 16:33
DaemonFCdepends on how much their government is being leaned on I supposeAug 21 16:33
DaemonFCbackroom deals and all thatAug 21 16:33
DaemonFCRoman Pulanski is just lucky that nobody really wanted him all that badAug 21 16:34
DaemonFChe'll die of old age because he's merely a child raping pedophileAug 21 16:34
FurnaceBoythe incident perfectly illustrates why wikileaks is relevant and the media isn't.Aug 21 16:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @journodave Just like that; Sweden says wikileaks founder is no longer a suspect. Every news org has ran it though, damage done.Aug 21 16:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Dear media, try reporting fact not fiction. #wikileaksAug 21 16:34
DaemonFCI doubt Assange will last that longAug 21 16:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: um wait?Aug 21 16:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: what's Assange's crime again?Aug 21 16:35
DaemonFCpissing off the rich peopleAug 21 16:35
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: why are you drawing a false parallel between Assange and Polanski?Aug 21 16:35
DaemonFCpissing off the assholes in chargeAug 21 16:35
DaemonFCyou know, crimes worse than murderAug 21 16:35
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The press is deamonising @Wikileaks probably from with orchestration from above. For shame. #bbc #fail #propaganda #lliesAug 21 16:35
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: what?Aug 21 16:35
DaemonFCyeahAug 21 16:35
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: do you actually think before you speak?Aug 21 16:35
DaemonFCit's more of an offense to annoy rich peopleAug 21 16:35
DaemonFCthan it is to murder youAug 21 16:35
DaemonFC:DAug 21 16:35
DaemonFCfunny how that works right?Aug 21 16:36
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: in the wikileaks narrative, please identify the criminalAug 21 16:36
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and their crimesAug 21 16:36
DaemonFCAssange, annoying rich people, and those in chargeAug 21 16:36
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you're more tiresome than usual this morning.Aug 21 16:36
DaemonFCsentence is either death or exile to a country that won't deport him to a black siteAug 21 16:36
*FurnaceBoy ( has left #boycottnovell ("ciao")Aug 21 16:36
DaemonFCschestowitz: Did the people revolt while I wasn't looking or is it not still more of a crime to annoy rich people than it is to shoot another peasant?Aug 21 16:37
*DaemonFC must have missed a memoAug 21 16:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #bbc is suspected of molesting children, #murdoch is connected to Al Qaeda and #Fox is satire. There, no questions needed. #wikileaks #smearAug 21 16:38
schestowitzHmmm...Aug 21 16:38
schestowitzStop trolling, do something positiveAug 21 16:38
schestowitzBring back your blog and identica/twitter bagAug 21 16:38
DaemonFCthere's some "crimes" that aren't written down, because once you've done one of those things, they'll either invent one for you or they'll just kill you while nobody is watchingAug 21 16:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@duskwynd of course everybody expected this :| -- it proves finally why #wikileaks is relevant and the media is not (fact versus fiction)Aug 21 16:39
DaemonFC 21 16:40
TechrightsBotTitle: | Communities | The Indianapolis Star .::. Size~: 123.42 KBAug 21 16:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] To avoid misunderstanding of last dent, false accusations are now being used against Wikileaks' founder. I was once victim of similar junkAug 21 16:40
DaemonFCschestowitz: Did you know that if a cop gets drunk and commits a hit and run felony, it's not a crime?Aug 21 16:40
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:40
schestowitzIf he's onduty speedingAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCThe Indianapolis police tried to deliberately mishandle evidence relating to that to get the charges droppedAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCand now the FBI has to investigate the IPDAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCnice huh?Aug 21 16:42
DaemonFChe was off duty and drunkAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCactuallyAug 21 16:42
DaemonFCsomeone really needs to take care of thisAug 21 16:43
DaemonFCsince the system has failedAug 21 16:43
DaemonFCthat's my opinionAug 21 16:43
DaemonFCif that had been my son that the guy ran over, his house would just suddenly catch fire one nightAug 21 16:44
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:44
schestowitzSome years ago anonymous trolls spreads headlines about me "molesting children"Aug 21 16:45
schestowitzThen they links to a fake URLAug 21 16:46
schestowitzGuardian fake... just a 404, obviouslyAug 21 16:46
DaemonFC 21 16:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Sweden withdraws warrant for WikiLeaks founder  | .::. Size~: 56.05 KBAug 21 16:46
schestowitzJulian could maybe sue the source/carrier of those rumoursAug 21 16:46
schestowitzLike I told ThistleWeb, now that it's cleared, expect no headlinesAug 21 16:46
schestowitzThe only headlines to exist will put his full name with the label sex offenderAug 21 16:47
schestowitzAnd that's the intended outcomeAug 21 16:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] RT @schestowitz RT @journodave Just like that; Sweden says wikileaks founder is no longer a suspect. Every news org has ran it though, d ...Aug 21 16:47
DaemonFChe was a suspect long enough for millions of people to see it on the newsAug 21 16:47
DaemonFCnice moveAug 21 16:47
DaemonFC2 hours later, nah, not really!Aug 21 16:48
DaemonFCafter everyone already saw the first articleAug 21 16:48
schestowitz "Google CEO Eric Schmidt led the team that developed Java at Sun prior to becoming CEO of Novell, and later Google in 2001."Aug 21 16:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracles Revenge on Google is a Dish Best Served Cold .::. Size~: 40.17 KBAug 21 16:50
DaemonFC,0,531310.storyAug 21 16:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Former Gov. Rod Blagojevich trial: Unrepentant Blagojevich assails prosecutors - .::. Size~: 171.77 KBAug 21 16:50
schestowitzDaemonFC: Julian is a HORRIBLE manAug 21 16:50
DaemonFCThe former Illinois governor lashes out at prosecutors and says the lone juror who refused to convict him of corruption bolsters his faith in God.Aug 21 16:50
DaemonFClolAug 21 16:50
schestowitzHe says negative things about very, very nic... rich peopleAug 21 16:50
schestowitzYou too need to hate himAug 21 16:51
schestowitzI've been having these discussions recently... about how anyone who challenges power becomes deamonised like thisAug 21 16:51
DaemonFCschestowitz: God came down off his throne to install enough doubt in one juror to save a corrupt politicianAug 21 16:51
DaemonFCapparentlyAug 21 16:51
*schestowitz wonders what the media says about VenturaAug 21 16:51
DaemonFCweird how he just lets thousands of little kids die of cancer, huh?Aug 21 16:51
schestowitz "In the past I've admired Eric Schmidt for his business acumen (abandoning Novell for Google was pretty damn sharp) but, in the light of these comments, I can only conclude one thing: Mr. Schmidt done lost his mind. "Aug 21 16:52
TechrightsBotTitle: Eric Schmidt and the end of an era .::. Size~: 97.23 KBAug 21 16:52
DaemonFC 21 16:53
TechrightsBotTitle: The Associated Press: NY candidate: Prison dorms for welfare recipients .::. Size~: 7.69 KBAug 21 16:53
DaemonFCschestowitz: Being poor is about to OFFFICIALLY be a crime!Aug 21 16:53
DaemonFCand you won't even need to be convicted either!Aug 21 16:53
schestowitzNo, it leads to itAug 21 16:53
DaemonFCyay!Aug 21 16:53
schestowitzShopliftingAug 21 16:53
DaemonFCsteal some food because you were hungry, 1 year in jailAug 21 16:54
DaemonFCsteal a million dollars by embezzlement, a few months at Club FedAug 21 16:54
DaemonFC"A Republican candidate for New York governor wants to turn prisons into dormitories for welfare recipients so they can get state-sponsored jobs, job training and lessons in "personal hygiene.""Aug 21 16:55
DaemonFCschestowitz: Will lessons in cake eating be provided?Aug 21 16:55
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Being poor is about to OFFFICIALLY be a crime and you won't even need to be convicted either!" -RyanFAug 21 16:56
TechrightsBotTitle: The Associated Press: NY candidate: Prison dorms for welfare recipients .::. Size~: 7.69 KBAug 21 16:56
DaemonFCPoor people need to stop buying crack  and go down to the cheap dollar store and buy a bar of soapAug 21 16:56
DaemonFCapparentlyAug 21 16:56
DaemonFCalthough I don't know how you're supposed to get high off of snorting soap flakesAug 21 16:57
DaemonFCthis guy is clearly an amateurAug 21 16:57
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 16:57
DaemonFChmmm, packing poor people in dorms, making them work for minimum wageAug 21 16:58
DaemonFCsounds like ChinaAug 21 16:58
DaemonFCschestowitz: Flipping burgers and scrubbing toilets for $7.25 an hour , no benefits, and part time hours is an opportunityAug 21 16:59
DaemonFCdon't worry, there's probably a condemned house you can live in somewhereAug 21 16:59
DaemonFCif you have a pipe wrench you may even get running water for a while!Aug 21 16:59
schestowitzI recently learned from a friend about construction in LondonAug 21 17:00
DaemonFCI notice that Updike is screaming about all the "job opportunities" in positions he would never take, while he's busy changing city ordinance year after year to guarantee that he gets raises that outpace inflationAug 21 17:00
schestowitzThey would work them all nightAug 21 17:00
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:00
schestowitzSo that they sleep in working hoursAug 21 17:00
schestowitzAnd then set them up in houses/rooms they share with families that have a spare roomAug 21 17:01
DaemonFCtypical politicianAug 21 17:01
DaemonFCmake that fat bastard scrub some toilets and flip some hamburgersAug 21 17:01
schestowitzDoesn't he empty cans?Aug 21 17:01
DaemonFCcut his salary in half and tell him he's lucky to have what's leftAug 21 17:01
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:01
schestowitzI saw a picture where he's like COokie MonsterAug 21 17:01
schestowitzScraping the bottom of the binAug 21 17:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: There is one benefit in working minimum wage burger flipping jobs I guessAug 21 17:02
DaemonFChacking loogies in cops burgersAug 21 17:02
DaemonFC:DAug 21 17:02
DaemonFC"One burger, and uhhhh, it's for a cop!"Aug 21 17:03
DaemonFCheheAug 21 17:03
DaemonFCschestowitz: You mean Oscar The Grouch?Aug 21 17:03
DaemonFC:DAug 21 17:03
DaemonFC 21 17:04
TechrightsBotTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 21 17:04
DaemonFC 21 17:04
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Classic Sesame Street - Oscar sings "I Love Trash" (1970) .::. Size~: 99.88 KBAug 21 17:04
DaemonFCschestowitz: Another problem is people that can't live within their meansAug 21 17:05
DaemonFCI do things like buy black shoes and, zomg washing them!Aug 21 17:06
DaemonFCyou know you can make a pair of shoes last a couple years?Aug 21 17:06
DaemonFCyou don't have to buy a new pair every monthAug 21 17:06
DaemonFCmy mom on the other hand, you'd think she was Imelda MarcosAug 21 17:07
schestowitzYou could get shoes from Updike's officeAug 21 17:08
schestowitzPartly usedAug 21 17:08
DaemonFCshe was complaining she didn't have room to move in any of Dave's things (3rd husband)Aug 21 17:09
DaemonFCI told here "Imelda, have you tried getting rid of some of your shoes?"Aug 21 17:09
DaemonFCit took her a second to get that I thinkAug 21 17:09
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:09
schestowitzThis guy looks like he's not wearing a shirt: 21 17:09
TechrightsBotTitle: .::. Size~: 57.24 KBAug 21 17:10
DaemonFCschestowitz: Apparently good government is 20% unemployment and all the politicians voting themselves raisesAug 21 17:10
DaemonFCwho would have guessed, right?Aug 21 17:10
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:10
DaemonFCSeems like Canadaland has learned a lessonAug 21 17:11
DaemonFCHarper sez "Hey, did you see this $5 billion artifical lake the taxpayers bought? You were right, these fucking dumbasses will fall for anything!"Aug 21 17:12
DaemonFCheheAug 21 17:12
schestowitzSame everywhereAug 21 17:12
schestowitzIt's PRAug 21 17:12
schestowitzSuccess=perceptionAug 21 17:12
schestowitzNot actual successAug 21 17:13
schestowitzIf you fix pipes and nobody know, it's pointlessAug 21 17:13
DaemonFCright, which is why there's 30% leakage in some and they just pump more water in to compensateAug 21 17:13
DaemonFCif nobody notices, it's not a problemAug 21 17:13
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:14
DaemonFCNew York City's aqueduct runs for miles and milesAug 21 17:14
DaemonFCleaks all over the placeAug 21 17:14
DaemonFCthere are entire towns where people's basements are flooding because of itAug 21 17:15
DaemonFCand nobody is fixing it, they just pump more water inAug 21 17:15
DaemonFCit would cost more money to fix it than it's worth to please only a few thousand voters whose property value has been destroyedAug 21 17:16
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:16
DaemonFCit's how government worksAug 21 17:16
DaemonFCschestowitz: Updike was bitching months back because of an "unfunded federal mandate" to upgrade the town's sewer systemAug 21 17:18
DaemonFCWalmart is sitting there selling $3 million worth of crap every week and paying no taxesAug 21 17:18
DaemonFCtell me what's wrong with this picture :)Aug 21 17:18
DaemonFCMinceR: 21 17:21
TechrightsBotTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 21 17:21
DaemonFCschestowitz: I ended up buying an old percolator for $2 at a garage saleAug 21 17:23
DaemonFCtired of another Chinese-made autodrip coffeee maker failing every monthAug 21 17:24
DaemonFCI figure the percolator will probably last me foreverAug 21 17:24
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Right. All updates done, Sabayon running like a charm. now just the personal refinements to go....Aug 21 17:24
DaemonFCI should really try Sabayon againAug 21 17:24
DaemonFCtheir LiveDVD was awesomeAug 21 17:24
DaemonFCbut installer was ZOMGWTFBBQAug 21 17:25
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:25
DaemonFClike the opposite of Ubuntu I guessAug 21 17:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: that's hypePhone 4Aug 21 17:26
schestowitzThere's four of themAug 21 17:26
schestowitz4 antennas tooAug 21 17:26
DaemonFCto increase the chances that one will work?Aug 21 17:26
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:26
schestowitz 21 17:26
TechrightsBotTitle: OIN sponsors mobile ID management research - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.32 KBAug 21 17:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: that's what Jobs says about his employees tooAug 21 17:27
DaemonFCaww snapAug 21 17:27
DaemonFC:PAug 21 17:27
DaemonFCschestowitz 21 17:30
TechrightsBotTitle: BBC News - Profile: Julian Assange .::. Size~: 48.74 KBAug 21 17:30
DaemonFCThe MSBBC will fix Teh Grauniad's mistakesAug 21 17:30
DaemonFC:DAug 21 17:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[mgeist] ACTA countries pledge to release final text before signing. Too late - once deal is done, take it/leave it 21 17:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: You were right thoughAug 21 17:35
DaemonFCit's cheaper to buy the coffee singles than it is to go through another Chinese coffee maker each monthAug 21 17:36
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:36
DaemonFCschestowitz: I just can't drink the instant stuffAug 21 17:40
DaemonFCcall me a snob if you will, but proper coffee should not leave you with a foam mustacheAug 21 17:40
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 17:40
DaemonFCI wonder what brand of crack Chris Montgomery was smoking when he mapped Vorbis quality levels to common MP3 bitratesAug 21 17:44
DaemonFCVorbis is only superficially similar to MP3Aug 21 17:45
DaemonFCand starting at 64 kbps as q0 was also funny because it lends more ammo to those AAC idiots about how they can "stream at 32kbps"Aug 21 17:46
DaemonFCThe HE-AAC PR has apparently been effective, though I would pose it as "Hey, did you ever wish your AAC files could sound just like WMA Standard version 7?"Aug 21 17:48
DaemonFC:DAug 21 17:48
DaemonFCit actually creates audible artifacts instead of just allowing the quality to gracefully degradeAug 21 17:48
DaemonFCand someone actually is making money from owning the patent on "SBR"Aug 21 17:49
DaemonFCschestowitz How much do you want to bet that Crapple pulls out HE-AAC to try to use in "HTML 5"?Aug 21 17:51
DaemonFCit wouldn't surprise me any, since their decoder can cope with it and so can Microsoft's, but I don't think FAAD2 doesAug 21 17:52
schestowitzJust woken up from napAug 21 17:52
DaemonFCmicrosleep?Aug 21 17:53
DaemonFC:DAug 21 17:53
schestowitzNoAug 21 17:54
schestowitzMacrosoftAug 21 17:54
DaemonFCit's interesting that there's actually a "bounty" attached to bitrate peeling on Ogg VorbisAug 21 17:54
DaemonFCwhich one of the catches to claim the bounty says you have to implement it within the Vorbis I specificationAug 21 17:55
DaemonFCbut the specification doesn't provide any room to implement itAug 21 17:55
DaemonFCYou could probably create an empty frame that normal Vorbis decoders will ignore that contains information about the importance of the data in the next several framesAug 21 17:56
DaemonFCbut you would see a significant bitrate increase just from thatAug 21 17:56
schestowitz "Brad Kuhn explains what #SCOracle suit means to freedom-preserving software like #Apache Harmony. #Oracle #Google #Java #Android #swpats"Aug 21 17:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Twitter / lnxwalt: Brad Kuhn explains what #S ... .::. Size~: 12.38 KBAug 21 17:58
DaemonFCit wouldn't actually be viable unless you figured out how to store information about the next 20-30 frames inside each one of your "empty" framesAug 21 17:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "On my Samsung DVD remote control you find an “any key”." 21 17:58
TechrightsBotTitle: Press any key « Sköne Oke .::. Size~: 18.57 KBAug 21 17:58
DaemonFCit might be technically possible, but it's not practical and I doubt $100 is going to motivate anyone to dump hundreds of hours into itAug 21 17:59
gnufreexschestowitz: Where Bradley Kuhn explains it?Aug 21 18:02
DaemonFCKuhn is a sharkAug 21 18:03
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Footballers trying to gag with super injuctions? Well it worked a treat for John Terry 21 18:03
TechrightsBotTitle:  British footballer uses law to prevent newspaper exposé | Media |  .::. Size~: 75.48 KBAug 21 18:03
gnufreexDaemonFC: How come?Aug 21 18:03
DaemonFChe's really only concerned about GPL enforcement with regards to how much money he can make over suing peopleAug 21 18:04
DaemonFCbut I guess sharks are useful sometimesAug 21 18:05
gnufreexDaemonFC: How did you figure that? I don't think so.Aug 21 18:05
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:05
DaemonFCI've talked to him before when Samsung refused to release the GPL'd bits of my BD Player's firmwareAug 21 18:05
DaemonFCincluding Busybox, Linux, and a bunch of other stuffAug 21 18:05
DaemonFChe was mad because he didn't get any money from suing them because I had already tipped them off that I would be in contact with him if they didn't fork it overAug 21 18:06
DaemonFCand when it was obvious he was taking an interest in the matter, suddenly there's my firmware tarballAug 21 18:07
DaemonFC:DAug 21 18:07
gnufreexSo, you got what you wantedAug 21 18:07
DaemonFCso he runs off and throws a hissyfit at me over "publicly shaming" Samsung into complying with the contract they entered into with meAug 21 18:07
DaemonFC(the GPL)Aug 21 18:07
DaemonFCand as I recall, there were quite a number of patches that Samsung was hoarding that only saw the light of day when that firmware surfacedAug 21 18:08
DaemonFCmostly for things like libgphoto2Aug 21 18:08
gnufreexSo what he wanted from you?Aug 21 18:08
DaemonFCand a couple XFS relatedAug 21 18:08
DaemonFCI believe he was mad because he didn't get to rough them upAug 21 18:09
DaemonFCshake the tree and see if any money falls outAug 21 18:09
DaemonFCyou knowAug 21 18:09
gnufreexMaybe he is mad at them for Microsfot deal?Aug 21 18:09
gnufreexI don't think he is in it only for money.Aug 21 18:09
gnufreexSFLC gets lots of money anyways.Aug 21 18:10
DaemonFCif Samsung has a Microsoft deal, why are they using XFS on the player's internal flash memory?Aug 21 18:11
DaemonFCwhy not just slap in ExFAT or something?Aug 21 18:11
gnufreexThat is what Microsoft wants. But Samsung don't want, so Microsoft says "pay us like you are using our stuff"Aug 21 18:11
gnufreexAnd we put press release that you are paying us for LinuxAug 21 18:12
gnufreexIt is mostly FUD game.Aug 21 18:12
DaemonFCI don't see anything in that firmware bundle that smells like Microsoft other than maybe libmmsAug 21 18:12
DaemonFCor the gratuitous Windows Media codecs that nobody usesAug 21 18:13
DaemonFCWhy do you need that?Aug 21 18:13
DaemonFCI get the libmms partAug 21 18:13
gnufreexIt doesn't smell, that is why Microsoft is nervousAug 21 18:13
DaemonFCbut does anyone really have a library of WMA files they want to stream from their PC to their Blu Ray playerAug 21 18:13
DaemonFCand why?Aug 21 18:13
gnufreexSo they claim they invented LinuxAug 21 18:13
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:13
sebsebsebHiAug 21 18:14
DaemonFCwell, Microsoft doesn't even own all the rights to Windows MediaAug 21 18:15
DaemonFCthey licensed a lot of AAC and HE-AAC related patents for WMA and WMA ProAug 21 18:15
DaemonFCso you're basically just using MS-AAC when you go with WMA ProAug 21 18:16
DaemonFC:PAug 21 18:16
DaemonFC 21 18:17
TechrightsBotTitle:  No more High setting in music volume? - SanDisk Forums, Welcome! .::. Size~: 128.41 KBAug 21 18:17
DaemonFClolAug 21 18:17
DaemonFC"It's a legal thing.     Use the 'reset factory settings' option in system settings.  For region choose something that isn't Europe."Aug 21 18:17
DaemonFCSomeone should sue the EU over discrimination against the hearing impairedAug 21 18:19
DaemonFCthat would be epicAug 21 18:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Oracle Hires SCO’s (and Novell’s) Lawyers 21 18:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle Hires SCOs (and Novells) Lawyers | Techrights .::. Size~: 95.85 KBAug 21 18:20
*_Goblin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Aug 21 18:20
*DaemonFC hates Redbox nowAug 21 18:21
DaemonFCI got a free rental code a while back and Transformers 2 was the most interesting movie in the kiosk at the time (and the codes expire in 24 hours after you get the txt)Aug 21 18:22
DaemonFCanyway, that cinematic suppository ruined me on Green Day foreverAug 21 18:22
DaemonFCI swear 21 Guns was the only song they licensed for the entire movieAug 21 18:22
sebsebsebschestowitz: Ok so  Oracale hire Novell and SCO lawyers, a bit worrying I guess, for those that follow the SCO and such story.Aug 21 18:27
sebsebsebAnyway people are worried about Oracale at the momentAug 21 18:28
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Weird: Gwibber suddenly doesn't display incoming tweets any more. Only Wondering if it still exports msg's to twitter.Aug 21 18:28
*_Goblin ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 18:28
sebsebsebThe whole OpenSolaris and Google Java thing, but what about the fate (I belive this is the correct word to use in this context)  of  Open Office and Virtualbox?Aug 21 18:28
sebsebseb_Goblin: I am bored todayAug 21 18:30
_GoblinOh dear....Aug 21 18:30
_GoblinIve got my new rig to mess around withAug 21 18:31
sebsebseb_Goblin: Facebook is a pathetic waste of time, in my caseAug 21 18:31
_Goblinjust configuring Usenet clients at the momentAug 21 18:31
sebsebseb_Goblin: or well most of the time anywayAug 21 18:31
sebsebsebLinux distro IRC tech support,  I don't really want to do that todayAug 21 18:31
sebsebsebLinux  article catching up, well therse a lot of that I can do, but uh.  Anyway I will be eating soon :)Aug 21 18:32
sebsebseband some TV later it seemsAug 21 18:32
sebsebseb_Goblin: Usenet uhmm  that thing before IRC and what not, I guessAug 21 18:33
sebsebseband that has to be paid for nowAug 21 18:33
sebsebsebI thinkAug 21 18:33
sebsebseb_Goblin: A new rig aye? ok well enjoy Windows 7 on it then :DAug 21 18:34
DaemonFChe might if he got one of the Windows 7 Professional onesAug 21 18:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Indeed exporting to twitter defiantly works :-/ #gwibberAug 21 18:35
sebsebsebDaemonFC: yeah it may have come pre installed with WIndows 7, but  I was trying to make a kind of joke out of that,  or how the computer would be powerful enough to run Windows 7Aug 21 18:35
DaemonFCI played around with Home Premium for like an hour just to see if one could be expected to live with itAug 21 18:35
DaemonFCand found that half the things that I use were jsut goneAug 21 18:35
DaemonFC:PAug 21 18:35
sebsebsebSuch as?Aug 21 18:36
DaemonFCgroup policy for oneAug 21 18:36
DaemonFCand I also have more RAM than it lets you useAug 21 18:36
sebsebsebyou mean user and group file and folder permissions?Aug 21 18:36
DaemonFCI have 17 GB counting the GPUAug 21 18:36
sebsebsebHome versions of Windows don't exactly have thatAug 21 18:36
DaemonFCGroup Policy EditorAug 21 18:36
DaemonFCyou can make the changes directly in regeditAug 21 18:36
sebsebsebreally the consumer gets a rather rubbish version of Windows every timeAug 21 18:37
DaemonFCbut that's not easyAug 21 18:37
sebsebseb,but most users don't know thatAug 21 18:37
DaemonFCit is easy to fuck something up thoughAug 21 18:37
sebsebsebalso by the sounds of it, really the server versions of Windows are also the best to run on  the desktop, well 2003 anywayAug 21 18:37
DaemonFCnot reallyAug 21 18:38
DaemonFCunless you feel like kidnapping some files from Windows 7Aug 21 18:38
_GoblinI didn't even boot up Windows 7 was nuked with Sabayon 5.3Aug 21 18:38
sebsebsebanyway this is kind of funny,  my older brother left,  Mandriva logged in,  on the family computer,  yesterdayAug 21 18:38
sebsebsebandAug 21 18:38
DaemonFCand turning off a bunch of Server settings that make no sense on a desktopAug 21 18:38
sebsebsebso I am like to my Dad i'll turn it off and all thatAug 21 18:38
sebsebsebthenAug 21 18:38
sebsebsebwhen I shut down I press esc for the text shut down :)Aug 21 18:38
DaemonFCperformance between the two is roughly the sameAug 21 18:38
sebsebseband he's like, what's that?Aug 21 18:38
sebsebsebso locked into Windows, he doesn't know that, with a decant OS can have a  nice text boot up and shut down, that will say what the computer is doing, instead he gets blinded by picturesAug 21 18:39
DaemonFCsebsebseb: Microsoft does throw some patches for QFE cases into Windows Update on Server that you may have to hunt for if you use Windows 7Aug 21 18:39
sebsebsebwith Mandriva,  I can have the graphical boot up and shut down, or yeah hit esc for verbose/text mode :)Aug 21 18:39
DaemonFCthat's about the only difference I noticed other than the server stuff that makes no sense on a desktop and missing support dlls for things like gamesAug 21 18:39
sebsebsebwell I got a guy online who  is reasonably clever, he uses 2003 as a desktop OS instead of XP or  Vista or Windows 7 or whateverAug 21 18:40
DaemonFC2003 made sense instead of XP because they were not the same core systemAug 21 18:41
sebsebseb2003 is more secureAug 21 18:41
DaemonFCvery similar, but not the sameAug 21 18:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] and thats it done! Simple. Scrub Windows 7 and install Sabayon new rig is nearly just how I want it... 21 18:41
TechrightsBotTitle:  and thats it done! Simple.  Scrub Windows 7 and install Sabay... on Twitpic  .::. Size~: 9.73 KBAug 21 18:41
DaemonFCXP x64 was NT 5.2 thoughAug 21 18:41
DaemonFCsame as 2003Aug 21 18:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: oh your doing SabayonAug 21 18:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: anyway you just gave Microsoft some money I guess,  when buying the computer, since Vista Version 2 came pre instaledAug 21 18:42
sebsebsebDaemonFC: ohAug 21 18:42
sebsebsebDaemonFC: so  the 64bit version of XP came out a bit later, than the 32bit?Aug 21 18:42
_Goblinsebsebseb: nah...Im going to try and get a refundAug 21 18:43
_Goblinsebsebseb: if I succeed, I'll donate the money to the FSF.Aug 21 18:43
sebsebseb_Goblin: have you used it?Aug 21 18:43
_GoblinnoAug 21 18:43
_Goblinnot even booted into it onceAug 21 18:43
sebsebsebwell Windows 7 isn't that bad, by the sounds of itAug 21 18:43
_GoblinI switched the machine on, booted with a LiveCD and then formatted the harddisk.Aug 21 18:44
_Goblinwindows 7 is awful.  I used an "approved" Windows 7 machine a few months ago...Aug 21 18:44
sebsebseboh I can't seem to get a bigger version of your screenshot :(Aug 21 18:44
sebsebsebWhat do you mean approved?Aug 21 18:44
_Goblinif you don't connect it online or install anything, then its probably ok.Aug 21 18:44
sebsebsebthats what I thought with VistaAug 21 18:45
_Goblinsebsebseb: "Recommended Specs"Aug 21 18:45
sebsebsebafter I re installed it on here last time, butAug 21 18:45
sebsebsebwell its got issues trying to boot upAug 21 18:45
sebsebseband those last few times I have treid, I don't seem to get anywehreAug 21 18:45
_GoblinI'll feel dirty until I get my money back from MicrosoftAug 21 18:45
*schestowitz will look forward to updates about refundAug 21 18:45
_Goblinand I want my phone bill refunded too!Aug 21 18:45
schestowitzBringing refunds to public awareness if enough "damage" done to Microsoft in its own rightAug 21 18:45
sebsebsebok I don't have the drivers installed from the CD, but I think thats only for the graphics card and that would be about itAug 21 18:46
schestowitz[18:43] <sebsebseb> well Windows 7 isn't that bad, by the sounds of itAug 21 18:46
schestowitzYou mean PRAug 21 18:46
sebsebsebPR ?Aug 21 18:46
_GoblinWindows 7 is great.....ask Ballmer ;)Aug 21 18:46
schestowitz"The sounds of it"=buzz marketingAug 21 18:46
schestowitzLike YuhoungAug 21 18:46
_Goblinor Andre...Aug 21 18:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Whatever I'm friggin outta here for tonight. Want to eat some delicious Grecian food @ Sirtaki and drink Irish beer @ John Mullins Pub :-PAug 21 18:46
schestowitzDaemonFC: "Maybe we should put the candidate for NY governor in prison instead of the state mansion."Aug 21 18:46
TechrightsBotTitle: Conversation - .::. Size~: 9.07 KBAug 21 18:46
schestowitz_Goblin: I got a haircut yesterday, long overdueAug 21 18:46
gnufreexWindows 7 is great because of the adds. It sucks in real life.Aug 21 18:47
sebsebsebSo many people that don't want to learn computer,  thats  probably the main reason why Windows has so many users stilAug 21 18:47
sebsebsebstillAug 21 18:47
schestowitzVisata 8 is greaAug 21 18:47
schestowitzGreat nameAug 21 18:47
ThistleWebnever heard of that style, long overdueAug 21 18:47
schestowitzGreat brandAug 21 18:47
schestowitzStill just Windows codeAug 21 18:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Hi Marti....enjoy your evening out!Aug 21 18:47
sebsebsebfor example a girl,  had her hotmail account taken over recently,  so I sent her a message about it through Facebook and such, and yep no replyAug 21 18:47
_Goblinschestowitz: Im trying to grow mine a bit!Aug 21 18:47
DaemonFCWhat sucks is that the cooling policy is set to activeAug 21 18:48
_Goblinschestowitz: see how far my "boss" will let me go.Aug 21 18:48
sebsebsebwell at least she uses googlemail now :)Aug 21 18:48
DaemonFCso it tries to keep your CPU running at 100% and cranking the fanAug 21 18:48
DaemonFCeven when you aren't doing anything importantAug 21 18:48
DaemonFCwhich is basically the opposite of what most Linux distros doAug 21 18:48
*sebsebseb likes Gnome Shell preview luckily :)Aug 21 18:48
sebsebsebGnome 2,  just well isn't really  Gnome for me,  without the old Ubuntu brown human clear looks themeAug 21 18:49
DaemonFCthen it also tries to turn off your hard disk after the system is inactive for 20 minutesAug 21 18:49
sebsebseband suchAug 21 18:49
sebsebsebKDE 4 is uhAug 21 18:49
DaemonFCthere's no setting to stop that, so I just set the timer to 99999 minutesAug 21 18:49
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 18:49
*sebsebseb doesn't really like any distro, that much at the momentAug 21 18:49
DaemonFCthen it tries to selectively suspend and resume the USB ports which can leave the devices in an undefined state and stop the system from shutting downAug 21 18:50
sebsebseband obviously I haven't tried them allAug 21 18:50
DaemonFCso you have to disable that one :)Aug 21 18:50
sebsebsebis in limboAug 21 18:50
sebsebsebwaiting for the Linux distro futureAug 21 18:50
_GoblinI am very happy with Sabayon (Gnome)Aug 21 18:50
sebsebsebGnome Shell and such I meanAug 21 18:50
DaemonFCit puts the PC to sleep after 30 minutesAug 21 18:50
DaemonFCbut allows almost anything to wake it upAug 21 18:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jwildeboer] RT @netzpolitik RIP Christoph Schlingensief: 21 18:50
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*sebsebseb is in limboAug 21 18:50
DaemonFCso your system can keep going to sleep and waking up on it's ownAug 21 18:50
DaemonFC:PAug 21 18:50
sebsebseb_Goblin: I tried it in vm, and tried to isntall before, but some issue with the DVD or whatever, anyway I am not keen on black themes at allAug 21 18:50
sebsebseb_Goblin: and when it comes to a distro I want good defaultsAug 21 18:51
sebsebsebI don't want to customize much at all,  but  distros aren't exactly perfect for defaults, so yeah will customize a little bit probablyAug 21 18:51
_GoblinThats what Sabayon offers.Aug 21 18:51
DaemonFCpower management would work better if ACPI was designed a lot better than it isAug 21 18:51
sebsebseb_Goblin: maybe, burt the theme makes me go uhAug 21 18:51
sebsebsebsame thing for when I try MintAug 21 18:51
sebsebsebor PC Linux OSAug 21 18:51
DaemonFCit's why you have to end up disabling a lot of it to get your system to function like it shouldAug 21 18:51
sebsebsebin vm'sAug 21 18:51
_GoblinNvidia drivers, compiz etc etc all pre installed....Aug 21 18:51
_GoblinSabayon is sort of the Mint of Gentoo.Aug 21 18:51
sebsebsebyes I can change a theme, but for me the theme is a very important part of that version of the distroAug 21 18:52
DaemonFCcomparing Gentoo to Ubuntu is an insultAug 21 18:52
sebsebsebthe theme is  basically the distroAug 21 18:52
sebsebseband whatever apps come with itAug 21 18:52
DaemonFCactually, comparing Windows 7 to Ubuntu is an insult to WindowsAug 21 18:52
_Goblinno what I mean is that Mint comes with everything ready....Aug 21 18:52
_Goblinand is to Ubuntu what Sabayon is to GentooAug 21 18:52
*sebsebseb wants good defaults :) good theme, and suchAug 21 18:53
_Goblinand I wouldn't agree....Ubuntu is a fine distro...Aug 21 18:53
DaemonFCUbuntu is like someone tried to give Debian a sex change operation while tripping on crystal methAug 21 18:53
sebsebseband  I very nearly had it with MandrivaAug 21 18:53
sebsebsebso  thats what I use :)Aug 21 18:53
_Goblinwhat exactly is wrong with Ubuntu daemonfc?Aug 21 18:53
sebsebsebjust little things  I would changeAug 21 18:53
DaemonFCbugsAug 21 18:53
DaemonFChacksAug 21 18:53
_Goblinif it works (which it did for me) whats the problem?Aug 21 18:53
DaemonFCmore bugs, more hacksAug 21 18:53
sebsebseb_Goblin:  bugs,  patches, and all the fan boy hypeAug 21 18:53
DaemonFCforced crapAug 21 18:53
_Goblinmany many people have no problems with UbuntuAug 21 18:54
*sebsebseb used to be an Ubuntu fan boy, and is ashamed of it now!Aug 21 18:54
_GoblinI never did.Aug 21 18:54
_Goblinor ever had.Aug 21 18:54
DaemonFCbecause they're used to their OS treating them like that anywayAug 21 18:54
DaemonFCwhich is why it compares favorable to XP or OS XAug 21 18:54
DaemonFC*favorablyAug 21 18:54
*sebsebseb Used to be a slightly extreame Ubuntu fan boy I guess, I even lost a potential friend as a result, well I guess trying to get him to use Ubuntu, was one of the main reasons.Aug 21 18:54
ThistleWebsighs at the usual ubuntu hateAug 21 18:54
_Goblinagreed....Aug 21 18:55
DaemonFCindicator crapplet is obviously more Mac fapping goodnessAug 21 18:55
sebsebsebThistleWeb: it has bad hardware support compared to distros such as PC Linux OSAug 21 18:55
DaemonFCthey should remove half of OpenGL while they're at itAug 21 18:55
sebsebsebwireless doesn't just workAug 21 18:55
sebsebsebloads of the timeAug 21 18:55
DaemonFCso they can be even more like OS XAug 21 18:55
sebsebseb,but will in a distro such as PC Linux OS, or be really easy to have working thereAug 21 18:55
_Goblinsebsebseb: But I have deployed Ubuntu on over 40 machines and never had a problem.Aug 21 18:55
sebsebsebfor exampleAug 21 18:56
sebsebseb_Goblin: uh hang out in #ubuntu maybeAug 21 18:56
sebsebseband you ThistleWebAug 21 18:56
sebsebsebthe three most common issues, wireless didn't just work,  sound issues, and ATIAug 21 18:56
DaemonFC_GoblinI like how they removed the nautilus plugin that let you sync to your phone over bluetoothAug 21 18:56
_Goblinyeah but the more people who use a distro the more likely you are to get a comes down to numbers...I can only speak for myself.Aug 21 18:56
ThistleWebevery distro has issuesAug 21 18:56
DaemonFCand replaced it with Ubuntu FogAug 21 18:56
DaemonFCthat was just all classAug 21 18:56
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 18:56
sebsebsebThistleWeb: sure, but some less so than othersAug 21 18:56
ThistleWebof courseAug 21 18:57
sebsebsebThistleWeb: or many less so than othersAug 21 18:57
sebsebseband sadly the most hyped up distro UbuntuAug 21 18:57
sebsebsebhas a lot of issuesAug 21 18:57
DaemonFCDebian still lets you use BluetoothAug 21 18:57
sebsebseband seems to have a lot more issues, than a lot of the other popular distrosAug 21 18:57
DaemonFCbut they aren't trying to remove useful features to make room for an upsellAug 21 18:57
_Goblinsebsebseb: but it is responsible for making happy Linux users....if it didn't then there would not be so many people using it.Aug 21 18:57
sebsebseb_Goblin: yes, butAug 21 18:57
ThistleWebwhat percentage of users take part to make ubuntu better?Aug 21 18:57
DaemonFCMost of them probably don't know how to use Bluetooth I betAug 21 18:57
ThistleWebnot that many I'd expectAug 21 18:58
_Goblinand it wouldn't be top of the distrowatch charts.Aug 21 18:58
sebsebseb_Goblin: probably more people who tried Ubuntu,  went back to Windows or Mac OS X, because of issuesAug 21 18:58
DaemonFCtoo complicatedAug 21 18:58
DaemonFCUbuntu Fog it is thenAug 21 18:58
_Goblinbut the sustained userbase of Ubuntu is massive.Aug 21 18:58
sebsebseb_Goblin: than what stayed as happy Ubuntu users, or users who  went and tried another distro, becuse of the issuesAug 21 18:58
DaemonFCbecause they're idiotsAug 21 18:58
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Possibly Pursued by Vulture Funds Including John Paulson #takeoverAug 21 18:58
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DaemonFCpoached from Windows XP and the MacAug 21 18:58
sebsebsebif Ubuntu doesn't just work for what  they want to do, thats it they think Linux sucksAug 21 18:58
ThistleWebas far as I see, most people have no issues with ubuntuAug 21 18:58
sebsebsebloads of them won't try another distro, and then still if problems, back to WIndows or OS XAug 21 18:58
DaemonFCright, because they're idiots who had low expectations anywayAug 21 18:58
ThistleWebother than the "no mp3, no flash etc ootb"Aug 21 18:59
DaemonFCeven Windows Vista lets you use bluetooth to sync with your phoneAug 21 18:59
sebsebsebThistleWeb: as far as I see many people have issues with Ubuntu and the same kind of issues, and thats going by #ubuntuAug 21 18:59
DaemonFCwhy doesn't Ubuntu have that by default?Aug 21 18:59
DaemonFCother than the Ubuntu Fog upsellAug 21 18:59
sebsebsebThistleWeb: however the forums will also be full of problems of courseAug 21 18:59
_GoblinDaemonFC: so if people are happy with Ubuntu and stick with it, then they are idiots?  If people are having problems they don't have to stick with it.  The sustained Ubuntu popularity is a reflection of how many people enjoy using it.Aug 21 18:59
DaemonFCbecause most people are dumbassesAug 21 18:59
DaemonFCWalmart is popularAug 21 18:59
_Goblinpot and kettle spring to mind.Aug 21 18:59
DaemonFClots of people shop at WalmartAug 21 19:00
ThistleWebgreat attitudeAug 21 19:00
DaemonFCmost people don't understand that they shopped themselves into povertyAug 21 19:00
DaemonFCand out of workAug 21 19:00
_Goblinand its up to you to correct them?Aug 21 19:00
DaemonFCthey just like the low low prices on crap they don't need or won't useAug 21 19:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[sjvn] RT @MitchWagner: Facebook Feeling Unfriendly Toward ‘Social Network’ - 21 19:00
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well yeah many people are basically idiots,  and the companies know it, so treat the average consumer like an idiotAug 21 19:00
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DaemonFCnot really, but I still say they're retardsAug 21 19:00
sebsebsebreally I guess, when it comes to companies,  consumer means idiot most of the timeAug 21 19:00
DaemonFCthere's no actual need for over 90% of the stuff in a typical WalmartAug 21 19:01
DaemonFCthey get by on selling impulse crap mostlyAug 21 19:01
_Goblinso remind me, what makes you qualified to say Ubuntu is for "dumbasses"?  Ive installed many more Ubuntu rigs then you (I'd guess) and Ive not had problems and the recipients are happy...Aug 21 19:01
DaemonFCgood for themAug 21 19:01
DaemonFCdid you give them a lobotomy or were they already vegetables?Aug 21 19:01
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 19:01
ThistleWebusers often dont care how soemthing works, as long as it doesAug 21 19:01
_Goblinagreed completelyAug 21 19:01
sebsebseb_Goblin:  Most of Ubuntu's current users, don't know what other user friendly distros are out there,  and how for example  Mandriva or PC Linux OS, could be much more user friendly for them, becasue of the in built  control centreAug 21 19:02
sebsebsebthere this idea that Ubuntu is the most user friendly distroAug 21 19:02
sebsebseboh yeah?  ^Aug 21 19:02
ThistleWebso if it's got clukny workarounds for config stuff they dont careAug 21 19:02
sebsebseboh yeah @ the aboveAug 21 19:02
DaemonFCMandriva lets me use my Bluetooth syncAug 21 19:02
DaemonFCin NautilusAug 21 19:02
_Goblinsebsebseb: but the fact that they are trying alternatives to Windows is surely a good thing whatever distro they use.Aug 21 19:02
DaemonFChooray bluetooth!Aug 21 19:02
sebsebsebhow can it be the most user friendly distro, when it lacks a  decant control centre, such as what Mandriva and PC Linux OS has?Aug 21 19:02
DaemonFCUbuntu is very unfriendly to BluetoothAug 21 19:02
sebsebseb_Goblin: yes and noAug 21 19:02
_Goblinand it could be argued that is better if new users migrate to one particular distroAug 21 19:02
DaemonFCto make way for their Ubuntu One upsellAug 21 19:02
sebsebseb_Goblin: if Ubuntu gets to popular, more stuff will be made Ubuntu only probablyAug 21 19:03
sebsebseb_Goblin: or Ubuntu and Debian onlyAug 21 19:03
_Goblinmaybe, but then the market will just diversify again.Aug 21 19:03
DaemonFCif Ubuntu let Bluetooth work right, then people could use it to backup to external hard disksAug 21 19:03
DaemonFCwirelessly evenAug 21 19:03
DaemonFCno USB neededAug 21 19:03
_GoblinDaemonFC: never needed that feature personally so I can't comment.Aug 21 19:03
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Ubuntu's hardware support sucks, compared to other distros, as I said a litlte while agoAug 21 19:03
sebsebsebthis idea that Ubuntu just works,  no that's wrongAug 21 19:04
sebsebseba lot of the timeAug 21 19:04
DaemonFC_Goblin: I can mirror every PC in my house via a Bluetooth hard driveAug 21 19:04
sebsebsebPC Linux OS is more likely to just workAug 21 19:04
_GoblinUbuntu was one of the few distro's that would install on a troublesome Compaq I had.Aug 21 19:04
ThistleWebwhich is only an issue if a user has some hardware thats not detectedAug 21 19:04
DaemonFCApple calls this feature "Time Capsule"Aug 21 19:04
DaemonFCif you want to look it upAug 21 19:04
ThistleWebif your particular combo is supported, it doesn't matterAug 21 19:04
sebsebsebThistleWeb: and  a lot of the time Ubuntu doesn't detect hardware, such as a wireless device, that another distro willAug 21 19:04
DaemonFCUbuntu is crapAug 21 19:05
DaemonFCBluetooth also lets me sync with my phoneAug 21 19:05
DaemonFCwho needs to sync their phone?Aug 21 19:05
DaemonFCbetter not use UbuntuAug 21 19:05
ThistleWeband they wonder why we're seen as negative and infightingAug 21 19:05
DaemonFC(or buy the $40 data cable and hope Ubuntu knows wtf it is)Aug 21 19:05
*ThistleWeb is gone, enjoy your ubuntu bile-festAug 21 19:05
DaemonFCI mean, it thinks my Sansa is a cameraAug 21 19:06
sebsebsebThistleWeb: DaemonFC makes #boycottnovell seem negative, but ah well, I guessAug 21 19:06
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sebsebseboh we lost him, ah wellAug 21 19:06
DaemonFCit will probably see my phone as some alien technology from the 27th centuryAug 21 19:06
DaemonFC(not supported)Aug 21 19:06
sebsebseb_Goblin: DaemonFC  Anyway people think Ubuntu is so great, when really it is not, compared to other distros, a lot of the timeAug 21 19:07
DaemonFCI don't need a proprietary data cable with any other OS because Bluetooth is a "standard"Aug 21 19:07
DaemonFCsay it with me now, "standard"Aug 21 19:07
DaemonFCApple supports itAug 21 19:07
DaemonFCMicrosoft supports itAug 21 19:07
DaemonFCevery other Linux distro supports itAug 21 19:07
sebsebseb_Goblin: I have had two Ubuntu  hardware issues effect me!Aug 21 19:07
DaemonFCUbuntu wants to upsell you to their fog computing crapAug 21 19:07
DaemonFCso they make sure your bluetooth doesn't workAug 21 19:08
sebsebseb_Goblin: with 8.10 the ethernet woudn't just work on the other computer, worked fine in 8.04,  and  9.04 and 9.10 and 10.04 though.   Needs a driver in XP for it to work.Aug 21 19:08
sebsebseb_Goblin: then yeah the horrible Plymouth mess for 10.04Aug 21 19:08
sebsebsebsince how they done Plymouth badly in UbuntuAug 21 19:08
_Goblinsebsebseb: but then its all a matter of individual apps....when I was playing WOW, it was faster through Wine in Ubuntu than Wolvix.Aug 21 19:09
sebsebsebissues with or without the propritary Nivida driver installedAug 21 19:09
sebsebsebthat was an upgrade from 9.10Aug 21 19:09
DaemonFCWarden and REAL ID even?Aug 21 19:09
DaemonFCheheAug 21 19:09
DaemonFChow many fps does the Warden report back to Blizzard?Aug 21 19:10
DaemonFC:DAug 21 19:10
sebsebsebthen Ubuntu 10.04,  is rather horrible really, for users such as myself, since that horrible Gnome patching they have done, and features I don't want to personally use, such as Ubuntu One, and  so  also the Ubuntu One Music Store with/as part of that.Aug 21 19:10
sebsebseb10.10 will offer  at least one commercial app from the Software Centre, well I won't be buying commercial apps from there :)Aug 21 19:10
DaemonFCit's not a fork, it's just brokenAug 21 19:10
_GoblinDaemonFC: as many as he or she liked...I didn't care....WOW was great...Aug 21 19:10
_GoblinDaemonFC: Im over that addiction now though.Aug 21 19:10
DaemonFCjust so there's no ambiguityAug 21 19:10
_GoblinDaemonFC: got to level 40 PaladinAug 21 19:11
sebsebseband oh this is only the start,  they will have more money making services in the future in the Ubuntu product itself it seems.Aug 21 19:11
DaemonFCsome free software projects sue people when they take their project, fork it, break it, and keep using the nameAug 21 19:11
DaemonFCUbuntu still calls it GNOME but that's not what it isAug 21 19:11
sebsebsebnothing wrong for  them to try and make money really, but  I don't like, how they will try and force those kind of services onto users, by defaultAug 21 19:11
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well it isn't with Unity thats for sureAug 21 19:12
sebsebsebI guessAug 21 19:12 "gets in touch" with people who break their "Vorbis" implementationAug 21 19:12
*sebsebseb hasn't tried Unity yetAug 21 19:12
DaemonFCand ask them to fix it or call it something elseAug 21 19:12
DaemonFCwhy can't GNOME?Aug 21 19:12
sebsebsebanyway going away from computer, back a bit later, or whateverAug 21 19:13
DaemonFCI was searching around to see if Chris Montgomery had anything to say about the AoTuv forkAug 21 19:13
DaemonFCapparently he thinks highly of itAug 21 19:13
DaemonFCwhat I found was that he offered Aoyumi a job at one point, but he declined the offerAug 21 19:13
DaemonFCand that Montgomery admits he doesn't have time to work on all the nice features that are in AoTuv and recommends using it if it has features you needAug 21 19:14
DaemonFCapparently the surround sound work that appeared in libvorbis 1.3 was put on priority 1 because Red Hat wanted itAug 21 19:15
DaemonFCand that's why he didn't get around to the AoTuv mergeAug 21 19:15
DaemonFCwhich his delay is now 6 years runningAug 21 19:15
DaemonFC:DAug 21 19:15
DaemonFCit's easier to use the fork than expect great things of the reference implementationAug 21 19:15
*yuhong ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 19:16 seems to only be working on things that Red Hat finds usefulAug 21 19:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Listening to: Sonata Arctica - Shy Probably one of the greatest tracks ever!Aug 21 19:16
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yuhongEven MS bloggers are beginning to hate software patents:Aug 21 19:16
yuhong 21 19:16
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_Goblinyuhong: I would have thought the only ones who dont hate patents are the ones that hold them.Aug 21 19:17
DaemonFClibvorbis and AoTuv at this point seems like another dist10 mp3 v. LAMEAug 21 19:17
yuhongI would not go that far.Aug 21 19:17
DaemonFCat least as far as things never really getting fixed in dist10 wentAug 21 19:17
DaemonFC_Goblin: MP3 kind of goes along with what you were arguingAug 21 19:18
DaemonFCit works, why rock the boat?Aug 21 19:18
yuhongEven many in the Windows world hate McAfee, BTW:Aug 21 19:19
yuhong 21 19:19
_Goblinwell you would have a point if the mainstream mp3 consumer cared less about a proprietary format.Aug 21 19:19
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DaemonFCif anyone actually read the specification for MP3 and saw how inefficient and overly complicated it is, they may think differentlyAug 21 19:19
_GoblinI probably would, but the mainstream consumer would not.Aug 21 19:19
_Goblinthey dont care.Aug 21 19:19
_Goblinit is not an issue to them.Aug 21 19:20
_GoblinI'll try that one on my collegues....I'll get a blank look and an insult.Aug 21 19:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “Poor OpenSUSE Was Nearly Forgotten.” #OpenSUSE #SUSE #novell #linuxjournal #linuxAug 21 19:20
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DaemonFCThat's probably the scariest part of the MP3 encoding processAug 21 19:20
_Goblinfor those in the know.Aug 21 19:20
_Goblinyou won't be able to get a non tech music fan interested, I assure you.Aug 21 19:21
DaemonFCthe MP3 hybrid filterbank is like the flowchart from hellAug 21 19:21
_Goblinso then, for them, if it works, whats the problem?Aug 21 19:21
DaemonFCVorbis, AAC, and WMA address the MDCT directlyAug 21 19:21
_Goblinthey don't know or care.Aug 21 19:21
_Goblinand I still use mp3Aug 21 19:22
_Goblinshoot me...Aug 21 19:22
yuhongMP3, yes I know.Aug 21 19:22
DaemonFCmeh, I just think it's an awful formatAug 21 19:23
DaemonFCand wish TooLAME had continuedAug 21 19:23
yuhongThe patents.Aug 21 19:23
DaemonFCand that VBR decoding ability was mandatory on MP2Aug 21 19:23
DaemonFCMPC is based heavily on MP2Aug 21 19:24
DaemonFCand VBR decoding support is mandatory with MPCAug 21 19:24
yuhongA big problem BTW is those that make comparisons to MS without considering the full extent of MS's crimes.Aug 21 19:24
DaemonFCbut finding hardware decoding is a problemAug 21 19:24
DaemonFCMP3 and MP2 kind of have opposite use casesAug 21 19:25
DaemonFCMP2 is better at mid to high bitrates thoughAug 21 19:25
DaemonFCand that's more important now that storage isn't much of a problemAug 21 19:25
DaemonFCpeople normally use MP3 at bitrates MP2 would fare better atAug 21 19:25
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin Hi Tim, thank you. I expect to meet a lot of old friends ;-)Aug 21 19:27
DaemonFC 21 19:28
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DaemonFCRockbox supports thisAug 21 19:28
DaemonFCif this was 5 years ago I would have gone to some trouble to get Rockbox on my player just for thatAug 21 19:29
DaemonFCbut Vorbis has improved enough to make MPC not worth the hassleAug 21 19:29
DaemonFC_Goblin: You speak of what I call the Walmart MentalityAug 21 19:33
DaemonFCPeople don't want to know how things work, they don't want to figure things out, and if they can't get something in a pretty box, it's not worth investigatingAug 21 19:34
_GoblinDaemonFC: so you know about everything do you?Aug 21 19:34
DaemonFCUbuntu has gotten some attention, despite being technically inferior, because it requires less work to figure out how to get it to work poorlyAug 21 19:34
DaemonFCand getting it to work poorly with minimal effort is what people want apparentlyAug 21 19:35
_GoblinDaemonFC: if it works well for the end-user, provides what they want I can't see the problem.Aug 21 19:35
_GoblinDaemonFC: and as I say its the only distro I will recommend to others and it has never let me down.Aug 21 19:35
DaemonFCHow is downgrading to Ubuntu solving a problem?Aug 21 19:35
DaemonFCeven Windows can use my bluetoothAug 21 19:35
_GoblinDaemonFC: well, Ive yet to meet someone who is desperate for bluetooth.Aug 21 19:36
DaemonFCUbuntu is a downgrade because it breaks that and many other things, even when they work fine on other Linux distrosAug 21 19:36
_GoblinDaemonFC: and as I say, I found Ubuntu worked better with other products.Aug 21 19:36
DaemonFCusability is defined by how many features you can remove and replace by idiot buttonsAug 21 19:36
_Goblinbut by denying Ubuntu respect, you deny users choice.Aug 21 19:37
DaemonFCto some extent the entire software industry is moving that directionAug 21 19:37
_Goblinjust because you don't like it.Aug 21 19:37
DaemonFCit's a race to the bottomAug 21 19:37
DaemonFCUbuntu is winning thoughAug 21 19:37
_Goblinthat to me sounds very much like a MS advocate point of view...Aug 21 19:37
_Goblinand good, if Ubuntu is winning.Aug 21 19:37
DaemonFCUbuntu is winning by being condescendingAug 21 19:37
_Goblindoesnt have any impact on me.Aug 21 19:38
DaemonFCand breaking advanced functionalityAug 21 19:38
_GoblinI think Abiword is superior to OO....I won't dismiss others for using OO though.Aug 21 19:38
_GoblinI think Chromium is better than FF, same again.Aug 21 19:38
DaemonFCOOo is a big bloated bastard ran by Oracle politicsAug 21 19:38
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 19:38
DaemonFCeven the forks work betterAug 21 19:38
DaemonFCBasically if you aren't willing to sign your code over to Satan, your work is an unsupported plug-inAug 21 19:39
DaemonFCso this leaves the basic install without many important featuresAug 21 19:39
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DaemonFCI'm not quite sure what the hell OOo is, but whatever it does, it does about a GB of itAug 21 19:40
DaemonFC:DAug 21 19:40
kevin009now i have officially seen everything: a linux podcast advertising audibleAug 21 19:40
DaemonFCAudible isn't that badAug 21 19:40
DaemonFCI use itAug 21 19:41
kevin009it has digital restrictions malware does it not?Aug 21 19:41
DaemonFCyes and noAug 21 19:41
kevin009i'm willing to pay for content, i'm not willing to support the eroding of my rightsAug 21 19:41
DaemonFCget one of those CD burning simulatorsAug 21 19:41
DaemonFCthen rip it back from the CD to VorbisAug 21 19:41
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 19:41
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DaemonFCI get the "high quality" Audible files so I can rip them back to Vorbis at q -2 and still have them sound good enoughAug 21 19:42
kevin009are most of those audio books available used?Aug 21 19:42
DaemonFCuhhhmAug 21 19:42
kevin009probably not i guessAug 21 19:42
kevin009seems like audio books didn't take off until recentlyAug 21 19:43
kevin009mp3 players and the like probably helped itAug 21 19:43
_Goblinoff to give Regnum a look...back later...Aug 21 19:43
*_Goblin has quit (Quit: Lost terminal)Aug 21 19:43
DaemonFCyeah, well, the book on tape was, aroundAug 21 19:43
DaemonFCbut tapes wear out and get eaten by the playerAug 21 19:43
kevin009yeah and it is a nightmare to find a particular spotAug 21 19:43
DaemonFCthen the book on CD was out, but CDs are a pain to lug aroundAug 21 19:44
DaemonFCand they get scratchedAug 21 19:44
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 19:44
kevin009well as far as time consumption goesAug 21 19:44
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz schestowitz_logAug 21 19:44
DaemonFCAudible kind of reminds me of Apple's old musi DRM systemAug 21 19:44
DaemonFC*musicAug 21 19:44
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kevin009philips should have defined a compressed standard when they set the one for CDsAug 21 19:45
DaemonFCunlike music though, you can transcode an audio book and stiill have it be usableAug 21 19:45
DaemonFCthey didAug 21 19:45
kevin009you can fit 12+ hours on one cd that wayAug 21 19:45
DaemonFCthere was a miniature version of the CDAug 21 19:45
DaemonFCthat used MPEG Layer IAug 21 19:45
kevin009ohAug 21 19:45
DaemonFCit floppedAug 21 19:45
kevin009i have an old cd player that does mp3Aug 21 19:45
DaemonFCit had a data track with 384 kbps MP1 filesAug 21 19:46
kevin009that would have been good for audiobooksAug 21 19:46
DaemonFCMP1 and MP2 can go to 384 kbps frame sizeAug 21 19:46
kevin009imagine how much vorbis q2 you can fit on one cdAug 21 19:46
DaemonFCMP3 is limited to 320 kbpsAug 21 19:46
DaemonFC16.59 hoursAug 21 19:47
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 19:47
DaemonFCgior takeAug 21 19:47
DaemonFC*give orAug 21 19:47
DaemonFCon an "80 minute/700 MB CD"Aug 21 19:47
DaemonFCq2 is about cassette tape or FM radio qualityAug 21 19:48
kevin009yepAug 21 19:48
DaemonFCsubjective, but that's where I see itAug 21 19:48
DaemonFCthose satellite radio services use 128 kbps HE-AACAug 21 19:48
DaemonFCI usually rip to q6 Vorbis using AoTuvAug 21 19:49
DaemonFCgives me one collection to manage that works well everywhere :)Aug 21 19:49
kevin009i used q6 but then went to q5Aug 21 19:49
kevin009can't tell a differencAug 21 19:50
kevin009eAug 21 19:50
DaemonFCq5 is OKAug 21 19:50
DaemonFCI noticed that is smears things like cymbals and drums sometimesAug 21 19:50
DaemonFCsimilar to other codecs around that average bitrate rangeAug 21 19:51
DaemonFCq6 is fairly safeAug 21 19:51
DaemonFCbut most people don't have nice expensive speakers or great hearingAug 21 19:51
DaemonFCif you're using the pack in speakers that came with your PC, any bitrate will sound "just like the CD" ;)Aug 21 19:52
DaemonFChearing never gets better with ageAug 21 19:52
DaemonFC128k MP3 probably does sound just like the CD with pack-in speakers, to a 40 year oldAug 21 19:52
kevin009i always hated the ringing/metallic sounding highs in mp3Aug 21 19:52
kevin009but the encoders have gotten better over the decade Aug 21 19:53
DaemonFC~192k seems to be the magic number for meAug 21 19:53
DaemonFCwith any codecAug 21 19:53
DaemonFCthough I think Vorbis sounds a bit better than the others in that rangeAug 21 19:53
kevin009and wma is just painful at anything less than 64 :)Aug 21 19:54
DaemonFCCrapple sells those damned hypepods with no MicroSD slotAug 21 19:54
DaemonFCthen sells you 256kbps music filesAug 21 19:54
DaemonFCruns you out of storage real fast with no way to expand itAug 21 19:55
kevin009i wish they would all sell flacs/lossless fileAug 21 19:55
DaemonFCthey never willAug 21 19:55
DaemonFCdoesn't leave room for an "upgrade" laterAug 21 19:55
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kevin009yeah my thoughts exactlyAug 21 19:55
kevin009in two years they will sell 320kbps versionsAug 21 19:55
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kevin009so i just buy used CDs for <half price rather than buy music onlineAug 21 19:56
DaemonFCactually, Nero's AAC encoder can go up to an ABR of ~400 kbps AACAug 21 19:56
DaemonFC:DAug 21 19:56
DaemonFCand Vorbis q10 is around 500 kbpsAug 21 19:56
DaemonFCbut at those bitrates, there's questionable benefit vs FLACAug 21 19:56
DaemonFCthe whole point of lossy is that you can store lots of files using itAug 21 19:56
kevin009it is just future proof Aug 21 19:56
kevin00915 years later you can transcode and not have any extra lossAug 21 19:57
DaemonFCThere's no such thing as a future proof lossy codec reallyAug 21 19:57
DaemonFCeven the encoders for the same format improve over timeAug 21 19:57
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 19:57
kevin009but if it is flac you can decode and re-encode it with no penaltyAug 21 19:57
DaemonFCrightAug 21 19:58
kevin009it is great for storing sound you plan to editAug 21 19:58
DaemonFCbecause it is losslessAug 21 19:58
DaemonFCMicrosoft and Apple have their own lossless formatsAug 21 19:58
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DaemonFCbut they always end up with bigger files than FLAC :)Aug 21 19:58
DaemonFCand the format is undocumentedAug 21 19:58
kevin009yeah, any lossless format would be fineAug 21 19:58
DaemonFCthere's WAVPACKAug 21 19:59
DaemonFCit has a hybrid modeAug 21 19:59
DaemonFCI think that's where the idea for MP3HD came fromAug 21 19:59
DaemonFCa non-standard hybrid lossy/lossless MP3 formatAug 21 19:59
kevin009there was one codec where you get a lossy file and the rest of the data, which you can combine together later to make the originalAug 21 19:59
DaemonFCright, WavpackAug 21 19:59
DaemonFCthe lossless part is a correction fileAug 21 20:00
kevin009but i've gotten into s3m/mod/xm files over the past yearAug 21 20:00
kevin009converted hundreds of them to ogg for my portable playerAug 21 20:00
kevin009i think this nokia 770 can be made to play them but haven't gotten that workingAug 21 20:01
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell's New Products Are Proprietary Software #novell #WorkloadIQAug 21 20:02
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DaemonFCNokia plays MP3, AAC, and WMAAug 21 20:04
kevin009yeah being a linux device, I was surprised it doesn't do ogg.Aug 21 20:05
kevin009i'm sure it could be hacked to play ogg, foac, mod or anything elseAug 21 20:05
kevin009even my old 4g ipod can play mod lolAug 21 20:05
kevin009it can't handle s3m or the more advanced formats thoughAug 21 20:06
DaemonFCthey use Linux because it makes them moneyAug 21 20:08
DaemonFCthey only support MPEG codecs because it makes them moneyAug 21 20:09
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 20:09
DaemonFCthe lack of a credible open source AAC encoder has basically lead to more widespread industry abuse of the formatAug 21 20:13
DaemonFCcause now you have to pay someone for an encoder tooAug 21 20:13
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schestowitzDamage controlAug 21 20:19
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gnufreex[21:13:03] <DaemonFC> the lack of a credible open source AAC encoder has basically lead to more widespread industry abuse of the formatAug 21 20:21
gnufreexHows that?Aug 21 20:21
gnufreexYou mean, it would be used less if there was open source encoderAug 21 20:22
gnufreex?Aug 21 20:22
DaemonFCgnufreex: Already said, because now you have to buy an encoder license too if you want to support the formatAug 21 20:22
DaemonFCthe industry has tighter control over AAC than they do over MP3Aug 21 20:22
DaemonFCno, that's not what I meanAug 21 20:22
DaemonFCI mean people are going to use it and it would be better if there was an open source encoder floating aroundAug 21 20:23
DaemonFClike LAMEAug 21 20:23
gnufreexWell, this way it shows how propriatary AAC isAug 21 20:23
DaemonFCyeah, but people don't careAug 21 20:24
DaemonFCthey'll just grab Nero which is free for now, if you only use it as a toyAug 21 20:24
DaemonFCor install iTunesAug 21 20:24
gnufreexAnd completely free alternative should have easier pass. But f-king MPEG LA claims it owns all, so that bet is off. Aug 21 20:24
DaemonFCwell, it's actually possible to use MP3 without paying anyone moneyAug 21 20:25
DaemonFCor depending on a company to provide you with encoder softwareAug 21 20:25
DaemonFCso an open source AAC encoder would probably hurt the companies behind AACAug 21 20:25
gnufreexWell that is not FreeSoftware (tm) so it doesn't coutnAug 21 20:25
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 20:25
DaemonFCLAME is free softwareAug 21 20:25
DaemonFCso is mpg123Aug 21 20:25
DaemonFClots of players use mpg123 as a backendAug 21 20:26
gnufreexYes it is, but is illegal to redistribute if you don't sellout to MPEG LA.Aug 21 20:26
DaemonFCit's kind of like this, the industry controls the hardware that's on the shelvesAug 21 20:26
gnufreexThere must be some agreement with MPEG LAAug 21 20:26
DaemonFCand what formats it will playAug 21 20:26
gnufreexTo redistribute it.Aug 21 20:26
DaemonFCalso paying them for their encoder helps themAug 21 20:26
DaemonFCso by not having an open source encoder, you're giving them that much more power over the users of AACAug 21 20:27
DaemonFCno, there doesn't have to beAug 21 20:27
DaemonFCyou can distribute it as source codeAug 21 20:27
DaemonFCyou may not be in the USAug 21 20:27
schestowitz 21 20:27
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schestowitzSame headline stll thereAug 21 20:28
DaemonFCI've never heard of an individual being sued over compiling LAME and using the resultAug 21 20:28
DaemonFCbesides, the decoding side will be patent free in the US by 2012Aug 21 20:28
DaemonFCthat's not that far offAug 21 20:28
DaemonFCand that's the most important partAug 21 20:28
gnufreexWhy again people just don't use FLAC?Aug 21 20:28
DaemonFCstorage spaceAug 21 20:29
gnufreexstorage shmorageAug 21 20:29
gnufreexThat is becoming irrelevantAug 21 20:29
DaemonFCflash memory is expensive, it's hard to find hard drive based players anymoreAug 21 20:29
DaemonFCand even if you do, they don't play FLACAug 21 20:29
DaemonFCyeah, FLAC is an option if you don't want to go portableAug 21 20:30
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gnufreexAre we sure if there is not submarine patents in FLAC?Aug 21 20:31
DaemonFCif there is, then it goes back far enough to be invalidAug 21 20:31
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 20:31
DaemonFCbecause that algorithm has been in use for decadesAug 21 20:31
gnufreexkewl. Eat crap, MPEG LA!!Aug 21 20:32
DaemonFCVorbis is far more likely to violate some random patent out there than FLAC isAug 21 20:32
gnufreexI knowAug 21 20:32
gnufreexJust making sure'Aug 21 20:32
DaemonFCthe industry is losing their grip on the MP3 formatAug 21 20:33
DaemonFCmainly because they don't tightly control the codec softwareAug 21 20:33
DaemonFCbut also because the patents have been expiring over the yearsAug 21 20:34
DaemonFCthat's what gives with the push to AAC, they're trying to get everyone using another patent treadmill before their control of MP3 evaporates entirelyAug 21 20:34
gnufreexVorbis and FLAC are only competitors to AAC?Aug 21 20:35
gnufreexI mean free onesAug 21 20:35
DaemonFCVorbis is mainly an AAC competitorAug 21 20:35
DaemonFCon technical merits anywayAug 21 20:35
DaemonFCit's technically superior to MP3, and the bitstream is roughly as good as AAC'sAug 21 20:36
DaemonFCbut Vorbis has better encoders that exploit the features of the format more throoughlyAug 21 20:36
DaemonFCso you're much more likely to get good results at lower bitrates with Vorbis than with any other lossy format out thereAug 21 20:37
gnufreexI think Vorbis should be patented and patents put into defensive anti-MPEG-LA patent poolAug 21 20:37
gnufreexAnd then licensed royalty freeAug 21 20:37
DaemonFCI doubt itAug 21 20:37
gnufreexTo everyone who don't have anything to do with MPEG-LAAug 21 20:37
DaemonFCif they went to seek patents now it would just be ammunition for the Crapple CultistsAug 21 20:37
DaemonFC"Look, they had this planned all along! They're gonna sue you!"Aug 21 20:38
DaemonFCbesides, they've already given an irrevocable patent license to everyone anywayAug 21 20:38
DaemonFCby placing it in the public domainAug 21 20:38
gnufreexAha, right.Aug 21 20:38
DaemonFCmeaning even if they were awarded a patent, everyone is licensed to use itAug 21 20:39
DaemonFCretroactively evenAug 21 20:39
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 20:39
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DaemonFCthere's no danger of ever turning maliciousAug 21 20:39
DaemonFCthe danger would be a patent lawsuit from MPEG-LAAug 21 20:39
DaemonFCbut that's highly questionableAug 21 20:40
DaemonFCa lot of the patents they hold on MP3 and AAC are overly broad, and likely have prior artAug 21 20:40
DaemonFCeven if they did launch a lawsuit, there's a good chance they'd not only lose, but end up having any patents they based the lawsuit on declared invalidAug 21 20:40
gnufreexBut AppleHeads can't say that (you said they will say) because it is posilbe to make GPL-compatible patent grant that excluders MPEG-LA. MPEG LA doesn't touch GPL, so they are outside of GPL patent grant.Aug 21 20:41
DaemonFCthen they'd have fewer bargaining chips when it came time to license those formats outAug 21 20:41
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 20:41
DaemonFCno, it's notAug 21 20:41
DaemonFCif MPEG-LA gets the software under the terms of the GPL, then they have the same rights to it as anyone elseAug 21 20:41
gnufreexWhat is not?Aug 21 20:41
DaemonFCMicrosoft distributes GPL'd softwareAug 21 20:42
DaemonFCas part of Windows evenAug 21 20:42
gnufreexWhat Microsoft distributes?Aug 21 20:43
gnufreexThat is not true.Aug 21 20:43
DaemonFCthe UNIX subsystem uses GNU utilitiesAug 21 20:43
DaemonFCincluding GCCAug 21 20:43
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 21 21:02:29 2010
DaemonFCMicrosoft distributes GPL'd softwareAug 21 12:42
DaemonFCas part of Windows evenAug 21 12:42
gnufreexWhat Microsoft distributes?Aug 21 12:42
gnufreexThat is not true.Aug 21 12:42
DaemonFCthe UNIX subsystem uses GNU utilitiesAug 21 12:42
DaemonFCincluding GCCAug 21 12:43
DaemonFCand is part of WindowsAug 21 12:43
gnufreexGCC is not part of windows, there is not GPL code in Windows. If it is, show me where microsoft hosts source code.Aug 21 12:43
DaemonFCit's not available to you unless you have Windows Vista/7 Ultimate Edition or Enterprise Edition, or 2008/R2 ServerAug 21 12:43
gnufreexThey have to host code to fuilfill GPL obaligationAug 21 12:43
DaemonFCyeah, it's part of WindowsAug 21 12:43
DaemonFCyou install it under "Windows Features"Aug 21 12:44
DaemonFCthey do host codeAug 21 12:44
DaemonFCit's made available to everyone with a license to those Windows versions, and it's on the DVDAug 21 12:44
gnufreexThis is new. So now GCC goes GPLv3Aug 21 12:45
DaemonFCnopeAug 21 12:45
gnufreexIn fact, it is alreadyAug 21 12:45
DaemonFCthey're using GCC 3.2Aug 21 12:45
DaemonFCit's GPL 2Aug 21 12:45
gnufreexOk, scrach that. I have to verify, it is to crazy for me to beleive.Aug 21 12:45
DaemonFCthe rest of the "UNIX" utilities are all GPL 2Aug 21 12:45
gnufreexBack to MPEG LA. Aug 21 12:45
DaemonFCOK, the same thing basically happened with XFree86Aug 21 12:46
gnufreexMPEG LA doesn't distribute GPL code. Aug 21 12:46
gnufreexSo they don't get patent licenseAug 21 12:46
DaemonFCThey changed the license, but they can't retroactively change the license of the versions already distributed under the old termsAug 21 12:46
DaemonFCso if you get a copy of the last version that was under GPL2, you are only bound to obey GPL2Aug 21 12:46
gnufreexOk. I know thatAug 21 12:46
gnufreexI was saying that whole Microsoft GCC story is too crazyAug 21 12:47
gnufreexfor me to beleiveAug 21 12:47
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DaemonFCwell, the GPL is also copyrightedAug 21 12:47
gnufreexI know, so?Aug 21 12:47
DaemonFCif you add or remove provisions without the permission of FSF, you can no longer call it the GPLAug 21 12:47
gnufreexWho said anything about adding anything?Aug 21 12:48
gnufreexTo the GPL, that is.Aug 21 12:48
DaemonFCwell, because that would be your only way to retroactively re-license somethingAug 21 12:48
DaemonFCMicrosoft's Windows EULA says they can change the terms on you in the futureAug 21 12:48
DaemonFCso by agreeing to that, you're agreeing to a retroactive license changeAug 21 12:49
DaemonFCbut since modifying the GPL in such a way would mean it is no longer the GPL, then there's no way to slip in that clause and still say it's the GPLAug 21 12:49
DaemonFCunless you want to be sued for copyright infringement :)Aug 21 12:49
gnufreexWho said about modifying the GPL?Aug 21 12:49
gnufreexWait.Aug 21 12:50
gnufreexI will explain again better.Aug 21 12:50
DaemonFCactually, MPEG-LA does distribute LGPL and GPL 2 sotwareAug 21 12:50
DaemonFCin legal terms anywayAug 21 12:50
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 12:50
gnufreexI was saying that Vorbis can be patented. And then patent put into defensive pool. And than that pool can give broad patent grant (which is not GPL) that is GPLv3-compatible.Aug 21 12:51
DaemonFCthere are commercial projects that use LAME and pay royalties to MPEG-LA for itAug 21 12:51
DaemonFCso legally, every time they accept such royalties, they may have "distributed" the softwareAug 21 12:51
gnufreexAnd that patent grant discriminates against MPEG-LA. Aug 21 12:51
gnufreexAgainst their patents, that is.Aug 21 12:52
DaemonFCI would argue that MPEG-LA distributes GPL and LGPL 2 software whenever they accept royalties for LAMEAug 21 12:52
DaemonFCrightAug 21 12:52
gnufreexI don't think so.Aug 21 12:52
DaemonFCbecause if they distribute it, then they grant patent rights to anyone that receives itAug 21 12:53
gnufreexBut if it is so, then we need to move LAME to GPLv3Aug 21 12:53
gnufreexAnd give one royalty to MPEG LAAug 21 12:53
DaemonFCthat won't happenAug 21 12:53
gnufreexAnd all their patents are void. Aug 21 12:53
DaemonFCthere's only one person left working on LAMEAug 21 12:53
gnufreexIn fact, not void, they can still use non-GPL folks, but who careAug 21 12:53
DaemonFCthey never took copyright assignmentAug 21 12:54
DaemonFCand the other few dozen people have either moved on, can't be contacted, and a couple have probably diedAug 21 12:54
DaemonFCso it would be impossible to relicense the entire thingAug 21 12:54
gnufreexYeah, but MPEG LA is not "distributing" LAME anyways.Aug 21 12:55
gnufreexI go to eatAug 21 12:55
gnufreexbrbAug 21 12:55
DaemonFClegally, accepting royalties might be the same as distributingAug 21 12:55
DaemonFCit's iffyAug 21 12:55
DaemonFCit could be argued in court thoughAug 21 12:55
gnufreexLegaly, accepting royalties for GPL'd software is illegalAug 21 13:01
gnufreexIt breaks the GPLAug 21 13:01
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gnufreexIt only can be dressed up as insurance like Novell didAug 21 13:01
gnufreexAnd for that to work, you can't know what patents you are payingAug 21 13:02
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] wow, I think all my #Opera problems are solved by removing ~/.opera/opera6.ini on #Linux and com.operasoftware.Opera.plist on #OSX #w00tAug 21 13:05
*Now talking on #boycottnovellAug 21 21:02
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: | Channel #boycottnovell for | Free Software Sentry – watching and reporting maneuvers of those who oppose software freedom :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell-socialAug 21 21:02
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:19:57 2010Aug 21 21:02
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelAug 21 21:02
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz_logAug 21 21:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] wow, I think all my #Opera problems are solved by removing ~/.opera/opera6.ini on #Linux and com.operasoftware.Opera.plist on #OSX #w00tAug 21 21:05
schestowitz 21 21:07
TechrightsBotTitle: Life is good after Oracle, See you in ten years. .::. Size~: 63.02 KBAug 21 21:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] ok, no, #Opera still broken on #Linux. #lesigh ... trying upgrading to 10.61Aug 21 21:08
schestowitz 21 21:08
TechrightsBotTitle: Google Lashes Out Against Oracle’s Lawsuit, Invokes Open-Source as a Defense .::. Size~: 88.28 KBAug 21 21:08
schestowitzStill in the newsAug 21 21:08
gnufreexThis is crazy. It helps Mono. That is why they are spreading FUD against JavaAug 21 21:08
gnufreexI expect De Icaza to start writting MySQL replacement in C#Aug 21 21:09
gnufreexOracle atacked Google. Not Java, not Free SOftware. GOogle.Aug 21 21:10
gnufreexGoogle now tries to use free software as shield.Aug 21 21:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] On page 229 of 340 of العلمانية الج..., by عبد الوهاب الÙ.. 21 21:11
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schestowitz[21:09] <gnufreex> I expect De Icaza to start writting MySQL replacement in C#Aug 21 21:13
schestowitzBeat you yo it.........Aug 21 21:13
gnufreexHe already did?Aug 21 21:13
schestowitz 21 21:13
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Sqlite Sharp Can Harm GNU/Linux | Techrights .::. Size~: 99.62 KBAug 21 21:13
MinceRan even worse RDBMS? :>Aug 21 21:14
MinceRwhy does he have to pollute sqlite?Aug 21 21:14
schestowitzMore here: 21 21:14
TechrightsBotTitle: Stereotype of Copying the Competition | Techrights .::. Size~: 100.47 KBAug 21 21:14
schestowitzAnd other such postsAug 21 21:14
gnufreexI am again thinking that Red Hat should buy Novell. I think there are evidence (in Novell confidential papers) that could revoke antitrust regulations against Microsof. Novell is injecting Microsoft patents in FOSS for years. Aug 21 21:16
gnufreexIt is a smoking gun.Aug 21 21:17
gnufreexAnd it will be fun to see de Icaza fired. Aug 21 21:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ♻ @peterb RT @dpic Oct 4th is the FSF's 25th Anniversary- How should we celebrate? lp gnu #linux fs fc sfc #ubuntuAug 21 21:19
TechrightsBotTitle: How should we celebrate the Free Software Foundation's 25th Anniversary? via .::. Size~: 1.59 KBAug 21 21:19
schestowitzgnufreex: fired up about joining Ballmer's team officialluAug 21 21:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open Innovation Re-visited From the man behind IBM's #Linux strategy (now retired)Aug 21 21:21
TechrightsBotTitle: Irving Wladawsky-Berger: Open Innovation Re-visited .::. Size~: 38.34 KBAug 21 21:21
gnufreexschestowitz: Yes, he would probably go to Microsoft. I would like to see that, it would make anti-Mono advocacy easier. Aug 21 21:21
MinceRwhy should sntitrust regulations against m$ be revoked?Aug 21 21:22
gnufreexBecause Microsoft subsidiary (Novell) is injecting Microsoft patents and influence into competing software.Aug 21 21:22
gnufreexIf Red Hat buys Novell, they will have evidence. And maybe theyy will get some Novell employees to testify.Aug 21 21:24
MinceRs/snt/ant/Aug 21 21:24
gnufreexs/snt/ant/ what that means?Aug 21 21:24
gnufreexI said revoke, I meant rehash. I am not native english speaker.  I meant Microsoft could be investigated again like in 2000Aug 21 21:25
DaemonFChehAug 21 21:28
DaemonFCThomson Consumer Electronics is trying to rebrand itselfAug 21 21:28
DaemonFC"Technicolor SA"Aug 21 21:29
gnufreexHahaAug 21 21:29
MinceRicAug 21 21:29
gnufreexWho is Thompson again?Aug 21 21:29
DaemonFCown the rights to MP3 in the USAug 21 21:29
DaemonFCown RCA/GE/Proscan brandsAug 21 21:29
DaemonFCused to make stuff, my dad used to work thereAug 21 21:29
MinceRs/snt/ant/ means replace the first match to snt with antAug 21 21:30
DaemonFCthey fired everyone, tried to move to Mexico, then gave up and license out their brand names and collect MP3 royaltiesAug 21 21:30
DaemonFCpatent trollAug 21 21:30
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gnufreexMinceR: I know that... but I asked what it means here. Aug 21 21:32
schestowitzwb _GoblinAug 21 21:32
_Goblinhi!Aug 21 21:32
DaemonFCbasically they sold most of the actual divisions that made stuffAug 21 21:32
gnufreexHiAug 21 21:32
schestowitzSorry I hadn't spoken much earlier, caught up with what I missedAug 21 21:32
DaemonFCnow they're an "intellectual property" trollAug 21 21:32
schestowitzTomorrow I look at two weeks of MicrosoftAug 21 21:32
_Goblinare you mentioning about the "flying machine"?Aug 21 21:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I'm on a roll. Acupressure, Bach flower remedies, Craniosacral therapy, Pranic healing, Theta healing, Isopathy. 21 21:33
TechrightsBotTitle: RationalWiki:Article-a-Week Club - RationalWiki .::. Size~: 35.76 KBAug 21 21:33
_GoblinI'm writing a tongue in cheek article about the Microsoft Glider...Aug 21 21:33
schestowitz "How we should celebrate? Let's give cream cake to rms with !Linux on it. ;)"Aug 21 21:33
TechrightsBotTitle: Wojciech Ryrych (rrh)'s status on Saturday, 21-Aug-10 20:28:49 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.39 KBAug 21 21:33
schestowitzBut RMS is a vegetarianAug 21 21:33
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schestowitzglider?Aug 21 21:34
_Goblinyeah...MS have "launched" a glider for a flying competitionAug 21 21:34
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_Goblinamateur flight and all that...Aug 21 21:34
_Goblintheres plenty of scope for some one liners in that news....Aug 21 21:35
_Goblinand maybe illustrated with a picture of icarus.Aug 21 21:35
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz schestowitz_logAug 21 21:35
_Goblinthe important point though would be that more investors money is being frittered on silly projects...thats the point of the article.Aug 21 21:36
DaemonFC 21 21:36
TechrightsBotTitle: Technicolor | Research & Innovation | Intellectual Property & Licensing  .::. Size~: 118.7 KBAug 21 21:36
DaemonFCWhy I avoid anything labeled RCA/GE/ProscanAug 21 21:36
DaemonFC 21 21:37
TechrightsBotTitle: - Home .::. Size~: 6.79 KBAug 21 21:37
schestowitzWhat nonsense: 21 21:37
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle suit overwhelms Ubuntu launch | ZDNet  .::. Size~: 128.74 KBAug 21 21:37
DaemonFCsee, if not for LAME, they'd be making $5 for every encoder licenseAug 21 21:39
DaemonFCand you'd see that slipped into everything you bought tooAug 21 21:39
*OsamaK (~Osama@fsf/member/osamak) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 21:39
schestowitz_Goblin: what are your instincts about c.o.l.a.?Aug 21 21:42
*ThistleWeb (~gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 21:42
schestowitzHi, ThistleWebAug 21 21:42
schestowitzSorry about #theRyanAug 21 21:42
schestowitzHe's trolling while I'm out and then plays innocentAug 21 21:43
ThistleWeband?Aug 21 21:43
schestowitzHe gets a warningAug 21 21:43
ThistleWebahh lol, yeah that worksAug 21 21:43
schestowitzIf he continues to troll, he's outAug 21 21:43
ThistleWebhe's clearly shown that he listens to them in the pastAug 21 21:44
schestowitzjono probably avoids the channel because he mass-highlights himAug 21 21:44
ThistleWeb<schestowitz> If he continues to troll, he's out  << forgive me if I don't hold my breath on thatAug 21 21:44
schestowitzThistleWeb: he lasts a whileAug 21 21:44
schestowitzThen he gets back to itAug 21 21:44
ThistleWebbut hey, it's your channelAug 21 21:45
DaemonFCI am loved by allAug 21 21:45
ThistleWebI think your confusing "getting attention" with "love"Aug 21 21:46
ThistleWebschestowitz: it's not up to you to apologise for anyone else anyway, we're all responsible for our own behaviour. We are after all grown adultsAug 21 21:47
gnufreexschestowitz: Who's theRyan?Aug 21 21:47
DaemonFCthat would be the meAug 21 21:47
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 21:48
gnufreexHaha.Aug 21 21:48
schestowitzThistleWeb: yeah, but it's also bad when I silence peopleAug 21 21:48
schestowitzIt's better to first try a warningAug 21 21:48
ThistleWebtrue, for a first offenceAug 21 21:49
schestowitzOtherwise we turn into #ubuntu with zealous modsAug 21 21:49
schestowitzUbuntu Forums silence Mono oppositionAug 21 21:49
*OsamaK has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)Aug 21 21:49
schestowitzdon diss da monoAug 21 21:49
_GoblinDaemonFC: whats your problem...? come on, people wanted to give you a chance and you go and wind people up...Aug 21 21:49
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[ender2070/@ender2070] Career Limitations in GTA - 21 21:49
TechrightsBotTitle: Career Limitations in GTA | .::. Size~: 63.36 KBAug 21 21:49
schestowitz 21 21:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Oppenheimer Reiterates Outperform Rating on Red Hat (RHT) | .::. Size~: 90.96 KBAug 21 21:50
schestowitz 21 21:50
TechrightsBotTitle: Speaking UNIX: Bazaar .::. Size~: 58.2 KBAug 21 21:50
schestowitzNOVL results due by ThursAug 21 21:50
ThistleWebthe fact that he's been banned before, is constantly going into these moods, managed to cuase a policy to be made, all for the same's NOT a first offence, I was (obviously wrongly) under the impression he was already on his last warning. I was under the impression that he needs this place and wouldnt risk anything that'd see him banned permemnantlyAug 21 21:50
ThistleWebclearly that's not the caseAug 21 21:51
DaemonFCUbuntu silences anything that doesn't go along with the party lineAug 21 21:51
DaemonFCnot just Mono-relatedAug 21 21:51
_Goblintheres no party line here DaemonFC, just common courtesy and mannersAug 21 21:51
_Goblintwo things which on occasion you lack.Aug 21 21:51
DaemonFCit's easier to just peck at things trying to fix a problem with Ubuntu yourself than to file a bug report or join an IRC channelAug 21 21:52
DaemonFCthey try to suppress problems instead of fixing them most oftenAug 21 21:52
_Goblincouldn't answer that as Ive not filed a bug with them.Aug 21 21:53
DaemonFCI've filed bugs before that had a bazillion "Oh I've been having this problem too!" follow upsAug 21 21:53
*schestowitz hasAug 21 21:53
DaemonFCand eventually, like a year later, someone will come and close the bug report because it doesn't do that anymore because two versions of Ubuntu have passedAug 21 21:54
DaemonFCand now there are different problems, and that's not one of themAug 21 21:54
DaemonFC:DAug 21 21:54
gnufreexUbuntu forums admins are blind when Linsux people atack whole idea of Free software. Then when someone defends it, they close the therad because "it causes flamewar". When it is onesided bashing of FSF or GPL, all is ok.Aug 21 21:54
DaemonFCsometimes the illusion of progress can be had simply by shifting problems aroundAug 21 21:55
DaemonFCI think that's why so many people fap to UbuntuAug 21 21:55
DaemonFCmost Ubuntu releases are little better than beta quality overallAug 21 21:56
DaemonFCthe LTS releases tend to at least be slightly better, but not much, and it's better to wait for the first respinAug 21 21:56
MinceRgnufreex: i meant to fix my typoAug 21 21:57
DaemonFCsometimes you wonder if anyone even actually installed and used a package or if the thing was just broken and blindly merged from whenever their Debian freeze wasAug 21 21:58
DaemonFCthat's the problem with basing things on wherever Debian Sid is at, you end up syncing with a lot of broken packagesAug 21 21:59
DaemonFCThere's just no way to avoid that when there's 25,000 packages in an untested stateAug 21 21:59
DaemonFConly it's worse because Ubuntu takes something that's in Debian's experimental branches and tells you to deploy it on a production systemAug 21 22:00
DaemonFCthe LTS releases are only better because they merge with Debian Testing and not SidAug 21 22:00
MinceRwhy not just use debian stable?Aug 21 22:01
DaemonFCDebian Testing is where you want to be unless your PC is just really oldAug 21 22:02
DaemonFCDebian Stable wouldn't even boot up on this systemAug 21 22:02
*schestowitz thinks _Goblin should put sabayon on all PCs in town... 21 22:03
TechrightsBotTitle: Telecommuting | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 57.2 KBAug 21 22:03
DaemonFCand that's the problem with freezing something for years at a timeAug 21 22:03
MinceRyou can still use packages from testingAug 21 22:06
schestowitzThis is one of the best Linux audicasts 21 22:07
DaemonFCwaiting until the last minute and blitzing Ohio is the Democrats strategy?Aug 21 22:07
TechrightsBotTitle: Going Linux · 2010 Show Notes .::. Size~: 123.6 KBAug 21 22:07
DaemonFChmmmAug 21 22:07
_Goblinschestowitz: Lol...just saw that comment....I'll give it some thought! ;)Aug 21 22:09
DaemonFC 21 22:09
DaemonFChooray!Aug 21 22:09
TechrightsBotTitle: News: Halo: Reach - full game leaked online - .::. Size~: 215.93 KBAug 21 22:09
schestowitzHalf price wrt Vista 7Aug 21 22:09
schestowitzAnd you get to keep a copy to install for friends tooAug 21 22:10
schestowitzCan't do that with Vista 7Aug 21 22:10
schestowitzSupport charges tooAug 21 22:10
schestowitzMaintenancebizAug 21 22:10
schestowitzDaemonFC: we don't need Windows games advertised hereAug 21 22:10
schestowitzYou're not only the only Windows user here (I think) but also the only Linux basherAug 21 22:11
schestowitzSo, what are you here for anyway?Aug 21 22:11
DaemonFCIt's an XBOX 360 gameAug 21 22:11
DaemonFCand people would have bought it but now won'tAug 21 22:11
DaemonFCso it's funnyAug 21 22:11
schestowitz 21 22:12
TechrightsBotTitle: Newsweek Managing Editor Carl Sullivan Works for Microsoft Now | Techrights .::. Size~: 94.13 KBAug 21 22:12
*Judas_PhD has quit (Quit: Aaarrrggghhh!!!)Aug 21 22:12
schestowitz 21 22:13
TechrightsBotTitle: Ubuntu One  Technical Aspects « Apachelogger's Log .::. Size~: 33.34 KBAug 21 22:13
DaemonFCbut it's OK to advertise Amaon Fog?Aug 21 22:15
DaemonFCerrrr, Ubuntu OneAug 21 22:15
DaemonFC*AmazonAug 21 22:15
DaemonFCUbuntu is basically the darling of the RIAA, the MPEG-LA, and they build their entire online services platform on a company that signs Microsoft patent dealsAug 21 22:16
DaemonFCbut this is somehow more sacrosanct than NovellAug 21 22:17
_Goblinoh please, don't start the Ubuntu rant again.Aug 21 22:17
DaemonFCUbuntu: MPEG-LA licenses for humans!Aug 21 22:18
DaemonFC:DAug 21 22:18
gnufreex 21 22:18
TechrightsBotTitle: Yahoo Begins Microsoft Search-Ad Integration - .::. Size~: 136.14 KBAug 21 22:18
gnufreexYaho is going the way of dodoAug 21 22:18
DaemonFCeven the Yahell deal that fell through is less bad than what actually made it into 10.04 in the endAug 21 22:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] [ANNOUNCE] xorg-server 1.9.0 wondeful piece of softwareAug 21 22:19
MinceRyahoo is going the way of sco and novellAug 21 22:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: last warningAug 21 22:19
DaemonFCWhy am I being warned, for calling you out for being a hypocritical advertiser for MPEG-LA/Aug 21 22:20
DaemonFCand AmazonAug 21 22:20
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzAug 21 22:20
DaemonFCyou can't advertise Ubuntu One and just ignore the factsAug 21 22:20
*schestowitz has kicked DaemonFC from #boycottnovell (User term)Aug 21 22:20
*DaemonFC (~ryan@ has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 22:20
gnufreexDaemonFC: Yahell deal is in fact proxy fight. If Yang stayed, there would be no Microsoft deal, or he would burn the company during the merger. They put Bartz and got everything for free.Aug 21 22:22
MinceRnot much use in kicking without a good banAug 21 22:22
gnufreexI just now saw he is kicked out.Aug 21 22:22
gnufreexHahaAug 21 22:22
DaemonFCactually, covering them as they ink deals with companies worse than Microsoft doesn't add too much credibility to schestowitz's argumentsAug 21 22:23
gnufreexYou are backAug 21 22:23
gnufreex?Aug 21 22:23
MinceRwhich ones? m$ is in MPEG-LAAug 21 22:23
schestowitzYeahAug 21 22:23
DaemonFCMPEG-LA has expanded way beyond MPEG codec patentsAug 21 22:23
DaemonFCthey have infected healthcare and lots of other things tooAug 21 22:23
gnufreexWorld's biggest patent troll.Aug 21 22:24
DaemonFCthey like to sneak their licensing costs in so that they get a cut when you buy a pack of chewing gumAug 21 22:24
DaemonFCMPEG-LA even owns patents on all these "green" technologies Obama wants to spend the taxpayer money onAug 21 22:25
MinceRcrApple is in MPEG-LA, tooAug 21 22:25
DaemonFChow much you figure it cost them in 'contributions" to influence the purchasing decisions?Aug 21 22:26
DaemonFCYeah, it's the reason Firewire floppedAug 21 22:27
DaemonFCCrapple started a patent pool on it with MPEG-LAAug 21 22:27
DaemonFCWhy pay royalties on Firewire when USB is as good or better anyway? :)Aug 21 22:27
MinceRnot really as goodAug 21 22:28
schestowitzAre John Paulson anbd Hank related?Aug 21 22:29
DaemonFCyou owe 25 cents on every Firewire controller or device from my understandingAug 21 22:29
MinceRbut ieee1394 wasn't good enough to be worth paying royalties forAug 21 22:29
schestowitz*hankAug 21 22:29
MinceRusb does have some issuesAug 21 22:29
MinceRmaster/slave design, reliance on pollingAug 21 22:29
MinceR=> lots of overheadAug 21 22:30
DaemonFCit's good enough for the vast majority of things people use it withAug 21 22:30
MinceRironically, it was crApple who started leaving ieee1394 out of their laptopsAug 21 22:30
DaemonFCand it's not worth paying millions of dollars in Firewire royalties, as you saidAug 21 22:30
schestowitz 21 22:31
TechrightsBotTitle: Oracle vs Google: Triple Damage! at OSS Watch team blog .::. Size~: 44.91 KBAug 21 22:31
DaemonFCyeah, because the other 95% of the PC market, and a lot of non-PC platforms went USBAug 21 22:31
schestowitzmpeg la started with mpegAug 21 22:31
DaemonFCthere's no economy of scale if you command at most 5% of the marketAug 21 22:31
schestowitzIt found trolling profitable and move on to... well, just about evertythingAug 21 22:31
DaemonFCMinceR: Apple ditched PowerPC for the same reasonAug 21 22:32
DaemonFCx86 is cheap and plentiful and they can make higher marginsAug 21 22:32
schestowitz 21 22:32
TechrightsBotTitle: SemiAccurate :: Why Intel bought McAfee  .::. Size~: 27.99 KBAug 21 22:32
MinceRdid PPC also carry royalties?Aug 21 22:32
DaemonFCwell, the cost per chip was a lot higherAug 21 22:33
schestowitz"The value added is not security though, I would expect Intel to shed that division of McAfee sooner rather than later. Intel bought McAfee for manageability software, specifically to integrate it with Vpro/AMT. They are going after the medium, large and Fortune 500 business set."Aug 21 22:33
schestowitzibm patentsAug 21 22:33
DaemonFCif they save some money on each one of millions of Macs, it's worth switching to x86Aug 21 22:34
DaemonFCthey can always fabricate some benchmarks to continue justifying the high price laterAug 21 22:34
DaemonFCanyone who had a G4 or G5 can probably attest to how much faster they are than the x86 offerings of the same time periodAug 21 22:35
DaemonFCApple even files take down orders over benchmarks comparing the PowerPC Macs to the Intel onesAug 21 22:35
DaemonFCbecause the PPC ones were actually faster on a lot of workloadsAug 21 22:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Those “magnificent” softies in their flying machines #microsoft #fail #mvp #mvpbuzzAug 21 22:36
TechrightsBotTitle: Those magnificent softies in their flying machines « OpenBytes .::. Size~: 37.44 KBAug 21 22:36
schestowitz 21 22:36
TechrightsBotTitle: Tech Comics: "Enlightened Tech Management" &mdash; .::. Size~: 82.34 KBAug 21 22:36
DaemonFCMinceR: They saw an opportunity to integrate some cheap cheap hardware and sell it to idiots who will believe anything and have fat checkbooksAug 21 22:36
DaemonFCIt's Apple, what else can I say? :)Aug 21 22:37
MinceR:>Aug 21 22:37
DaemonFCremember when Apple used to run commercials mocking Intel?Aug 21 22:37
DaemonFCit wasn't that long agoAug 21 22:38
schestowitz_Goblin: there are flying cars in the pipelineAug 21 22:38
MinceRi don'tAug 21 22:38
schestowitzI posted photos last weekAug 21 22:38
MinceRthey didn't run them in absurdistan :>Aug 21 22:38
MinceRcrApple was blissfully distant back then, the cult here kept silent, afaictAug 21 22:38
schestowitzIt's great, it'll help us finish the fossil fuel a lot faster and maybe then leave *some* animals alone to survive before peak oil and famineAug 21 22:38
DaemonFCMinceR 21 22:39
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Apple Computer Ad - Power PC vs Intel .::. Size~: 96.69 KBAug 21 22:39
MinceRcan't watch online video nowAug 21 22:39
MinceRthis connectionm is barely better than dialupAug 21 22:39
MinceRbecause none of the telcos can be bothered to build a repeater hereAug 21 22:39
MinceR(i'm on holiday)Aug 21 22:39
schestowitzObviously not :-)Aug 21 22:40
schestowitzNot with such a slow connectionAug 21 22:40
_Goblinwell well well...Aug 21 22:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] HTC Desire Z to pack slide-out Qwerty keyboard? #htc #androidAug 21 22:41
DaemonFCI liked the one where they had a Pentium 3 mounted on top of a snailAug 21 22:41
TechrightsBotTitle: HTC Desire Z to pack slide-out Qwerty keyboard? Maybe, maybe not | Crave | CNET UK .::. Size~: 45.49 KBAug 21 22:41
DaemonFC:pAug 21 22:41
_Goblinwho said this: "I have learned that it is not good to hyper focus all of my learning activities around Free Software"Aug 21 22:41
schestowitz 21 22:41
TechrightsBotTitle: Shuttleworth hints at Ubuntu's future with latest name | Desktop OS | ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 39.9 KBAug 21 22:41
_GoblinQuote "In fact I can be considered a trojan horse (get a windows job, and recommend Linux when people trust me)"Aug 21 22:42
_Goblinyep sure...Aug 21 22:42
_Goblinhe's shut up shop now he's burnt his bridges with FOSS community members.Aug 21 22:42
_Goblinoh and he goes on....Aug 21 22:43
_GoblinQuote "I used to hang out in IRC (#boycottnovell, the techrights channel). I get the impression that some of their hatred is rather silly."Aug 21 22:43
_Goblinno Ender, it was your childish tirade that you fired at me via email (and on your blog before deleting) that is rather silly.Aug 21 22:43
DaemonFCgraphics improvements?Aug 21 22:44
DaemonFCAre they planning to write the missing half of the OpenGL API that Mesa doesn't support on my GPU?Aug 21 22:44
DaemonFCcause that would rockAug 21 22:44
schestowitz_Goblin: 21 22:44
TechrightsBotTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KBAug 21 22:44
DaemonFCThey must have bought ATI and Nvidia and open sourced the working drivers or somethingAug 21 22:45
DaemonFC:DAug 21 22:45
MinceRDaemonFC: no, they're making the default theme more osx-like and claim that it's better nowAug 21 22:46
MinceR:>Aug 21 22:46
DaemonFCUbuntu X: Cloud Edition, with extra Cloudiness!!!!Aug 21 22:46
DaemonFCB-)Aug 21 22:47
DaemonFCNautilus has been forked and they're going to name it Ubuntu Cloud ExplorerAug 21 22:47
DaemonFCFirefox has been removed, allowing you to use VNC and a copy of Firefox in the CloudAug 21 22:48
DaemonFCwhich is totally safe from 3rd party spyingAug 21 22:48
DaemonFCeverything you do on your PC will be hosted on an Amazon EC2 server somewhere, and totally not monitored by the NSA at allAug 21 22:50
DaemonFCand your demographic information totally won't be sold either!Aug 21 22:50
_Goblinschestowitz: lol....thats made me feel better...Ive calmed down now!Aug 21 22:50
_GoblinDamn fine looking lady that Palin.Aug 21 22:51
schestowitz 21 22:51
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- InsubordiNET .::. Size~: 115.49 KBAug 21 22:51
schestowitz_Goblin: she'd kick Putin in the balls real hardAug 21 22:51
DaemonFCI wonder how long it will be before I can buy a copy of all my demographic information. I'm always trying to get myself to do things I don't want to do, but armed with the appropriate stimulus, I think I could mount an effective advertising campaign.Aug 21 22:51
DaemonFCPlenty of time to be disappointed with myself laterAug 21 22:52
MinceRwhat sorts of things are you trying to get yourself to do?Aug 21 22:52
DaemonFCwell, getting me to sign over all my money to the "discretionary fund" perhaps?Aug 21 22:53
DaemonFCI'm a real bastard and tend to hoard all the money for stupid things like paying bills.Aug 21 22:53
DaemonFCIf I could just get inside my head and find out what makes me tick, I just might get the upper hand.Aug 21 22:54
DaemonFCMinceR: Is it a BAD thing when you don't even open bills anymore and just throw them in the trash?Aug 21 22:55
MinceRyesAug 21 22:55
DaemonFCI changed my phone number, I give out a fake one whenever anyone I might owe money to at some point asksAug 21 22:58
_Goblinlol.Aug 21 22:58
DaemonFCso I don't get the harassing phone calls anymoreAug 21 22:58
MinceRdo you get the services they keep billing you for? :>Aug 21 22:58
DaemonFCwell, actually, yesAug 21 22:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[fosspatents] More on Open Invention Network / Oracle / Google: it doesn't matter that Sun never signed the OIN contract 21 22:59
TechrightsBotTitle: FOSS Patents: The Open Invention Network (OIN): Oracle vs. Google is its biggest debacle so far .::. Size~: 66.8 KBAug 21 22:59
DaemonFCsince the ones I give the fake number to are places like the emergency roomAug 21 22:59
DaemonFCusuallyAug 21 22:59
gnufreexMuller still don't allow comentsAug 21 22:59
DaemonFCyou'll be in there on death's doorstep and instead of treating you and asking questions later, you'll be sitting there with a fucking concussion or something and it plays out likeAug 21 23:00
DaemonFCWhat are your religious preferences?Aug 21 23:00
DaemonFCMe: (with slurred speech) "I'd prefer that there was no such thing, can I have some morphine and the tetanus shot and stitches now?"Aug 21 23:01
DaemonFCthen a week later, some $10,000 bill comes in the mailAug 21 23:02
MinceR"I've often started off with a lawyer joke, a complete caricature of a lawyer who's been nasty, greedy, and unethical. But I've stopped that practice. I gradually realized that the lawyers in the audience didn't think the jokes were funny and the non-lawyers didn't know they were jokes."Aug 21 23:02
MinceRDaemonFC: you mean it's free for cultist?Aug 21 23:03
MinceR+sAug 21 23:03
schestowitzgnufreex: cause he got exposedAug 21 23:03
DaemonFCMinceR: That's another reason I shouldn't play the lotteryAug 21 23:03
schestowitzI probed Florian about it Aug 21 23:03
DaemonFCBetween taxes and medical bills, there's be nothing left anywayAug 21 23:03
schestowitzHilarious answer, he said it took too much of his time,yet he finds time for 100s of comments in BN, 100s in SLashdot, LWN, etc.Aug 21 23:04
DaemonFCMinceR: There's still a state law on the books that says you can get out of paying medical bills for your child if you pray for themAug 21 23:04
MinceRlolAug 21 23:04
MinceRwhat a fucking joke of a countryAug 21 23:05
DaemonFCA 1, a 2, a 1, 2, 3, 4! Then I saw that bill, nananananaanananaa! Now I'm a believer!, not a trace of doubt in my mind!Aug 21 23:05
DaemonFC:PAug 21 23:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Links 21/8/2010: X Server 1.9.0, Droid 2 #techrightsAug 21 23:06
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 21/8/2010: X Server 1.9.0, Droid 2 | Techrights .::. Size~: 118.79 KBAug 21 23:06
DaemonFCMinceR: I don't think that defense flies in court thoughAug 21 23:06
DaemonFCotherwise everyone would be using itAug 21 23:06
DaemonFCso it must have been struck down at some pointAug 21 23:06
MinceRunenforceable law?Aug 21 23:06
*Chips_B_Malroy ( has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 23:06
DaemonFCyeahAug 21 23:06
DaemonFCjsut like it's god damned jesus christ on a rubber crutch sweet zombie jesus! illegal to blasphemeAug 21 23:07
DaemonFC$1 penalty, maximum $3 a dayAug 21 23:07
MinceRwhoaAug 21 23:07
Chips_B_Malroy 21 23:07
MinceRi thought only ireland was backwards enough to illegalize blasphemyAug 21 23:07
TechrightsBotTitle: Bill Gates Continues To Sell Microsoft.  Should You? (MSFT) | .::. Size~: 91.94 KBAug 21 23:07
DaemonFCMinceR: Again, unenforceableAug 21 23:08
MinceRwhy?Aug 21 23:08
Chips_B_Malroy"It just seems rather odd that Gates continues to sell shares in a company that many see as stagnant and too big to get out of its own way."Aug 21 23:08
DaemonFCThere's a lot of laws on the book that aren't enforcedAug 21 23:08
Chips_B_Malroy"There hasn't been any relevant growth in Microsoft to speak about in almost a decade, as shares have actually lost value since August 2001. In August 2001, Microsoft shares went for $28.53. Today shares are selling at $24.24. This doesn't include dividends that Microsoft has paid out over this time frame, but you get the drift. The share price has been stagnant under Steve Ballmer."Aug 21 23:08
DaemonFCMinceR: Indiana even had a law that said that Pi was 3.2 at one pointAug 21 23:08
MinceRlolAug 21 23:08
DaemonFCdon't ask me why they do anythingAug 21 23:08
MinceRcompromise?Aug 21 23:08
MinceR(since the bible says it's 3)Aug 21 23:09
DaemonFCapparentlyAug 21 23:09
Chips_B_Malroy"The share price has been dormant for almost a decade, and Gates sees this as well. He isn't blind and perhaps this is the reason for selling so many shares. His thought process might be its time to cut losses, and put his money where it can be better put to use."Aug 21 23:09
Chips_B_Malroy"Since the beginning of the year, Gates has reduced his stake in the Bellevue, Wash. based company by nearly 150 million shares. To me, this seems like more than diversifying your portfolio, or selling some shares to buy another house. "Aug 21 23:09
DaemonFC 21 23:09
TechrightsBotTitle: Dumb Laws in Indiana. Crazy Indiana Laws. We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws! .::. Size~: 16.01 KBAug 21 23:09
DaemonFCActually, it did say 3Aug 21 23:09
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: he puts money where he sees $$$Aug 21 23:09
DaemonFChmmmAug 21 23:09
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 21/8/2010: X Server 1.9.0, Droid 2 !techrightsAug 21 23:09
TechrightsBotTitle: Links 21/8/2010: X Server 1.9.0, Droid 2 | Techrights .::. Size~: 118.79 KBAug 21 23:09
schestowitzWalmart, Coca COla...Aug 21 23:10
DaemonFC"Anyone 14 or older who profanely curses, damns or swears by the name of God, Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, shall be fined one to three dollars for each offense, with a maximum fine of ten dollars per day."Aug 21 23:10
DaemonFCGod damn it!Aug 21 23:10
Chips_B_Malroy  "Users remain outraged that changes in the privacy settings for Windows Live made in June have exposed their names and other data, with no fix in sight. Microsoft also managed to anger users of its free online services by merging friend lists from previously separate online services and by deleting data that didn't comply with revised versions of the tools."Aug 21 23:10
TechrightsBotTitle: Microsoft pulls a "Facebook" by exposing Windows Live users' names | Community .::. Size~: 89.46 KBAug 21 23:10
DaemonFCI was wrong about that tooAug 21 23:10
MinceRDaemonFC: are these laws specific to indiana?Aug 21 23:10
DaemonFCyeahAug 21 23:10
Chips_B_Malroy"I have to point out, it's not the fact that a relatively small number of users are vocally complaining across more than a half-dozen help forum strings that caused me to write about this. It's the fact that Microsoft pulled a "Facebook" and exposed users names and other info that was previously not visible to anyone."Aug 21 23:10
DaemonFCIt is illegal for a man to be sexually aroused in public.Aug 21 23:10
DaemonFCOral sex is illegal.Aug 21 23:10
DaemonFCthat's definitely unenforceableAug 21 23:11
DaemonFC 21 23:11
TechrightsBotTitle: Dumb Laws, Stupid Laws: We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws! .::. Size~: 13.12 KBAug 21 23:11
Chips_B_MalroyI see Mueller is defending M$ today in the commentsAug 21 23:11
DaemonFCIt is a defense that the accused person, in the legitimate practice of his religious belief, provided treatment by spiritual means through prayer, in lieu of medical care, to his dependent child.Aug 21 23:12
DaemonFCniceAug 21 23:12
DaemonFCPray away the gay maybe, while you're in thereAug 21 23:12
DaemonFCand give me my 100,000 mile tune-upAug 21 23:12
DaemonFC:PAug 21 23:12
MinceR"You are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute."Aug 21 23:12
DaemonFCtoilet paper!Aug 21 23:12
Chips_B_MalroyDemolition Man?Aug 21 23:13
DaemonFCThanks a lot you shit-brained, fuck-faced, ball breaking, duck fucking pain in the ass.Aug 21 23:13
DaemonFCB-)Aug 21 23:13
DaemonFCSo much for the seashells!Aug 21 23:13
DaemonFC:DAug 21 23:13
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: not just today, any dayAug 21 23:14
MinceRindeedAug 21 23:14
schestowitzDaemonFC: watch your languageAug 21 23:14
schestowitz 21 23:15
TechrightsBotTitle: Minnesota Tornadoes 2010: We're #1! | Updraft | Minnesota Public Radio  .::. Size~: 64.06 KBAug 21 23:15
Chips_B_MalroyMueller's point is: "MS is less evil than those other companies."  If I got it right.  Clearly, I have hear this talking point from other MS shills.Aug 21 23:16
DaemonFC 21 23:16
TechrightsBotTitle: YouTube- Matrix reloaded Lambert Wilson .::. Size~: 96.84 KBAug 21 23:16
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 23:16
DaemonFCMinceR, that caught me totally off guard when I saw it in the theaterAug 21 23:17
Chips_B_MalroyI think Mueller effectively painted himself into a corner with his comments.Aug 21 23:18
DaemonFCI ended up spitting out my soda onto the person in front of meAug 21 23:18
schestowitz 21 23:18
TechrightsBotTitle:  Hate crimes against the homeless | Sadhbh Walshe | Comment is free |  .::. Size~: 110.8 KBAug 21 23:18
DaemonFCeveryone hates the homelessAug 21 23:18
Chips_B_MalroyWell Later Roy, busy day here.  Was not sure you seen those two stories or not.  Later all.Aug 21 23:19
DaemonFCthat's why it's not a crimeAug 21 23:19
DaemonFC:)Aug 21 23:19
*Chips_B_Malroy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Aug 21 23:19
schestowitzI added someAug 21 23:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: you too were homelessAug 21 23:19
schestowitzLiving in your carAug 21 23:19
DaemonFCyepAug 21 23:19
DaemonFCsure wasAug 21 23:19
schestowitz 21 23:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Why Oracle vs Google won't harm Android | News | TechRadar UK .::. Size~: 69.59 KBAug 21 23:20
schestowitzgnAug 21 23:20
DaemonFCThere's worst things than living in your carAug 21 23:20
DaemonFCGonad The Barbarian is one of themAug 21 23:20
DaemonFC*worseAug 21 23:20
MinceRit also depends on the car in questionAug 21 23:21
MinceRsome cars are suited for living in them :>Aug 21 23:21
DaemonFCnot a 1995 Chevy CorsicaAug 21 23:21
DaemonFCtry sleeping in thatAug 21 23:21
DaemonFC,2008-1995ChevyCorsica71kmi.jpgAug 21 23:22
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DaemonFClooked like thatAug 21 23:22
DaemonFCstill preferable to dealing with other people, or in the case of Gonad The Barbarian, sub-human barely conscious pond scumAug 21 23:23
DaemonFCthe best thing anyone in his family ever did was die in a meth lab explosionAug 21 23:23
DaemonFCProtip: You shouldn't make meth when you're on meth, it's usually the second batch that explodes" :)Aug 21 23:25
*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellAug 21 23:26
DaemonFCanyway, it's his family that convinced me that criminality is geneticAug 21 23:26
DaemonFCthere's not one person out to at least a distant cousin of his that wasn't in jail at some point over drugs or rapeAug 21 23:26
DaemonFCor burglaryAug 21 23:27
DaemonFCone of them stole a prescription drug pad from a doctor and was caught trying to turn in a prescription for OxycontinAug 21 23:27
DaemonFCone of them hadn't even gotten the ingredients for the meth home yet and decided to light up a cigaretteAug 21 23:28
DaemonFCand caused an explosion in the carAug 21 23:28
DaemonFCOne of them was in the process of BEING arrested for something else and decided it would be a great idea to punch the cop across the faceAug 21 23:29
DaemonFC"But I did his drywall last week, so he owes me, I'll be out of here in NO TIME!"Aug 21 23:29
DaemonFC1 year later....Aug 21 23:29
DaemonFC:DAug 21 23:29
DaemonFCand his grandson (12 at the time) raped his sisters and a boy from his school that was overAug 21 23:30
DaemonFCthe whole family is criminals, it's just genetics, I won't even accept another argument at this pointAug 21 23:30
DaemonFCpeople like that make the case for summary executionAug 21 23:31
gnufreexwow 21 23:33
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gnufreex"Quit with the shit Florian. Everybody knows you are Microsoft astroturfer whose task it to create rifts and divisions in FLOSS world." Aug 21 23:33
*gnufreex ( has left #boycottnovell (" - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")Aug 21 23:34
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oiaohm  Now this is odd ballAug 21 23:43
TechrightsBotTitle: [Phoronix] Apple Looks To Take Over X Server 1.9 Release Management .::. Size~: 19.25 KBAug 21 23:43

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