Join us now at the IRC channel.
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| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/ml2mst/statuses/21025611000 " WTF? you are part of the #techrights community or not?" | Aug 13 07:17 |
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| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Twitter / Marti van Lin: @openuniverse: WTF? you ar ... .::. Size~: 11.89 KB | Aug 13 07:17 |
| MinceR | twitter fails, they don't have the "in context" link | Aug 13 07:18 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I fail to see context too | Aug 13 07:21 |
| schestowitz | But Twitter does have some context option | Aug 13 07:21 |
| schestowitz | Only if you use the Web Front End | Aug 13 07:21 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.marketwatch.com/story/oracle-sues-google-for-patent-infringement-2010-08-12 Seen this schestowitz | Aug 13 08:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Oracle sues Google over intellectual property - MarketWatch .::. Size~: 92.71 KB | Aug 13 08:24 |
| schestowitz | http://news.discovery.com/tech/screw-it-youre-dead-anyway.html | Aug 13 08:36 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Screw It, You're Dead Anyway : Discovery News .::. Size~: 58.02 KB | Aug 13 08:36 |
| schestowitz | Innovation | Aug 13 08:36 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: what do you think about ORCL? | Aug 13 08:36 |
| MinceR | is cremation not good enough anymore? | Aug 13 08:42 |
| schestowitz | "But WOT about the SOUL?" | Aug 13 08:44 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: what google did with android is the same class as what Microsoft tried todo with java. So fall out should have happened. | Aug 13 08:44 |
| MinceR | google tried to kill java by creating an incompatible variant under the same brand? that's new | Aug 13 08:47 |
| MinceR | lol @ comments >> http://gizmodo.com/5468152/a-screw+in-coffin-is-clever-and-economical?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+gizmodo/full+%28Gizmodo%29&utm_content=Google+Reader | Aug 13 08:47 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: A Screw-In Coffin is Clever and Economical .::. Size~: 78.38 KB | Aug 13 08:47 |
| MinceR | oh, (javascript) | Aug 13 08:47 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: running low on space | Aug 13 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Even for burial | Aug 13 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we can go back to making people fossil fuel | Aug 13 09:13 |
| schestowitz | Like people did until hundreds/thousands years ago | Aug 13 09:13 |
| schestowitz | I mean, people need your tomb for like, what? Hundreds of years | Aug 13 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Then nobody even knows your name | Aug 13 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Let alone visits the grave | Aug 13 09:14 |
| schestowitz | Immortalising 'sould' | Aug 13 09:14 |
| schestowitz | *souls | Aug 13 09:14 |
| MinceR | indeed | Aug 13 10:15 |
| MinceR | if only we could get rid of religions | Aug 13 10:15 |
| oiaohm | Interesting thing about the orcale move against google is winning it could lay down the legal foundations to attack MS over .Net again. schestowitz | Aug 13 10:19 |
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| MinceR | i thought those foundations were already pretty firm | Aug 13 10:23 |
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| oiaohm | Open the means for a direct attack against the .net bytecode engine. MinceR | Aug 13 10:26 |
| oiaohm | Now that also could leave Mono critical exposed as well. | Aug 13 10:27 |
| MinceR | you mean m$ could be sued? | Aug 13 10:28 |
| oiaohm | Orcal winning against google would open up the door wider for orcale to attack MS MinceR | Aug 13 10:29 |
| oiaohm | Yes | Aug 13 10:29 |
| MinceR | that would be awesome. | Aug 13 10:30 |
| MinceR | but how? | Aug 13 10:30 |
| oiaohm | Remember the bytecode ending google java is using is very much like what MS Java support for .net does. | Aug 13 10:31 |
| oiaohm | ending/engine | Aug 13 10:31 |
| oiaohm | I would not be game to say MS is isolated at this time. | Aug 13 10:31 |
| MinceR | that would only take j# out of .net, wouldn't it? | Aug 13 10:32 |
| oiaohm | That is as far as a current day attack could reach. | Aug 13 10:33 |
| MinceR | that isn't much | Aug 13 10:33 |
| MinceR | nobody cares about j# anyway | Aug 13 10:33 |
| oiaohm | This google move has them reaching past the conversion to the vitural machine it self. | Aug 13 10:33 |
| oiaohm | Winning against google in this case opens up orcale to attack the core engine of .net. | Aug 13 10:34 |
| oiaohm | Because there JIT and AOT patents would have been apllied against a non Java vm. | Aug 13 10:34 |
| MinceR | ic | Aug 13 10:35 |
| oiaohm | Also the attack is good for google. MinceR | Aug 13 10:59 |
| oiaohm | I know that might sound strange. | Aug 13 11:00 |
| MinceR | depends on their prospects, imo | Aug 13 11:00 |
| oiaohm | It gives google a chance to prove past question that they will protect companies making Android against attack. | Aug 13 11:00 |
| MinceR | if it's ok with them to ship SE standard class libraries and the .net attack will work, it indeed is | Aug 13 11:00 |
| MinceR | or if they can win, it's good for them | Aug 13 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Win or Lose Google wins. | Aug 13 11:01 |
| MinceR | is that a real impediment to android? | Aug 13 11:01 |
| oiaohm | Winning most likely not harm Android. | Aug 13 11:02 |
| oiaohm | Minor distruption at worst. | Aug 13 11:02 |
| MinceR | i expect oracle will demand SE (or ME?) class libraries shipped | Aug 13 11:02 |
| oiaohm | That will bring GPL into the android stack. | Aug 13 11:03 |
| oiaohm | So making the legal difference in requirements between android and meego less. | Aug 13 11:03 |
| oiaohm | Yep over all good outcome for all. MinceR | Aug 13 11:03 |
| MinceR | except that it probably already weakens java | Aug 13 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Not really | Aug 13 11:04 |
| MinceR | the m$ java case was defense against an attack on java | Aug 13 11:04 |
| MinceR | this is not an attack on java | Aug 13 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Android it self is. | Aug 13 11:04 |
| oiaohm | Having a implementation that has no requirement to return code. | Aug 13 11:05 |
| MinceR | how can those who rely on (and even improve) java trust that they'll be safe from lawsuits now? | Aug 13 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Weakens the development of java. | Aug 13 11:05 |
| oiaohm | Remember openjdk is gplv2 Android stack is not. | Aug 13 11:05 |
| oiaohm | If you use the openjdk and follow the licence you are safe from lawsuits MinceR | Aug 13 11:05 |
| MinceR | but i can't implement my own java RE? | Aug 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | Even items like classpath are also safe due to being under a licence orcale are happy with. | Aug 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | gcj is also safe MinceR | Aug 13 11:06 |
| oiaohm | Notice something there. You want to create you own java RE make it GPL or else. | Aug 13 11:07 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure how that works | Aug 13 11:07 |
| MinceR | i don't own the patents, oracle does -- therefore they can license them, i can't | Aug 13 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Patent grant applies to GPL licenced code. | Aug 13 11:07 |
| oiaohm | Sun/Oracle patent grant MinceR | Aug 13 11:07 |
| MinceR | so oracle has a patent license to all java patents that applies to all GPL-ed code? | Aug 13 11:07 |
| MinceR | what versions of GPL? | Aug 13 11:08 |
| oiaohm | v2 on. | Aug 13 11:08 |
| oiaohm | Notice that orcale is not calling for payment for the infriging code. | Aug 13 11:09 |
| oiaohm | But istead calling for the complete destruction of infringing code. | Aug 13 11:10 |
| MinceR | huh? | Aug 13 11:11 |
| MinceR | that doesn't sound reassuring at all | Aug 13 11:11 |
| oiaohm | For anyone that orcale could target after google I would be scared. MinceR | Aug 13 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Legally its been a question mark if you can call for complete destruction or not. | Aug 13 11:13 |
| MinceR | which means that java users are threatened | Aug 13 11:13 |
| MinceR | not good | Aug 13 11:13 |
| oiaohm | You are thinking too small. | Aug 13 11:13 |
| oiaohm | If orcale wins this GPL enforcement could have a new highly company killing weapon. MinceR | Aug 13 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Basically everyone is at threat not just java users MinceR | Aug 13 11:15 |
| MinceR | oracle wasn't suing "everyone" with java sw patents, though | Aug 13 11:17 |
| oiaohm | The weapon oracle is trying to create would allow patent attacks against microsoft to slowly dismantal their software. | Aug 13 11:18 |
| oiaohm | Same with other closed source companies. | Aug 13 11:19 |
| oiaohm | This could bring about the end to the patent system as we know it. | Aug 13 11:19 |
| MinceR | ic | Aug 13 11:20 |
| MinceR | i wonder if the public will see it like that | Aug 13 11:20 |
| MinceR | or if even oracle has that in mind at all | Aug 13 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Even if orcale does not have it in mind taking the case they have layed out to court and winning could open the pandora any how. | Aug 13 11:22 |
| oiaohm | If I was Microsoft right now I would be hoping Orcale and Google could settle out of court. | Aug 13 11:22 |
| MinceR | it seems likely | Aug 13 11:22 |
| MinceR | unless oracle turns out to have a weak case | Aug 13 11:23 |
| oiaohm | Not impossible. | Aug 13 11:23 |
| oiaohm | Linux Foundation could possible act as mediator. | Aug 13 11:23 |
| oiaohm | So resolve a fight between members. | Aug 13 11:23 |
| oiaohm | But at this stage Microsoft idiots don't seam to be appling presure for that to happen. | Aug 13 11:24 |
| schestowitz | [10:19] <oiaohm> Interesting thing about the orcale move against google is winning it could lay down the legal foundations to attack MS over .Net again. schestowitz | Aug 13 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Salesforce.com used patents against .NET | Aug 13 11:30 |
| MinceR | salesforce is m$'s bitch now, afaik | Aug 13 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Aug 13 11:33 |
| schestowitz | And they didn't pay for Linux | Aug 13 11:33 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: with the weapon orcale could create could have made that patent distute MAD. | Aug 13 11:33 |
| schestowitz | Salesforce hates Microsoft | Aug 13 11:34 |
| schestowitz | Beinoff | Aug 13 11:34 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: interesting | Aug 13 11:34 |
| schestowitz | But /would/ they? | Aug 13 11:34 |
| schestowitz | Didn't Sun sign a patent deal with Microsoft over .NET? | Aug 13 11:34 |
| schestowitz | Legally binding? | Aug 13 11:34 |
| oiaohm | The agreement fell apart. schestowitz | Aug 13 11:35 |
| oiaohm | MS and Sun disputed what should be covered and what each should pay. | Aug 13 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Sun did not have the money then to go after Microsoft schestowitz | Aug 13 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Hello they are now orcale. | Aug 13 11:35 |
| MinceR | didn't salesforce sign a deal with m$ recently? | Aug 13 11:36 |
| schestowitz | Yes, after being sued by Microsoft | Aug 13 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Over SaaS | Aug 13 11:43 |
| schestowitz | That was god | Aug 13 11:43 |
| schestowitz | *good | Aug 13 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Showed Microsoft as bully for 4th time | Aug 13 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Suing without provocation to cause it | Aug 13 11:43 |
| MinceR | what sw patents was it about? | Aug 13 12:52 |
| schestowitz | Re: Flash is best says BBC | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > “Our use of Flash is not a case of BBC favouritism, rather it | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > currently happens to be the most efficient way to deliver a high | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > quality experience to the broadest possible audience," said BBC new | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > media boss Erik Huggers in a blog post this morning. | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/13/erik_huggers_iplayer_flash_html5/ | Aug 13 13:28 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: BBC new media boss defends iPlayer Flash, slaps Microsoft • The Register .::. Size~: 25.54 KB | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | > Do you have any links to online media streaming that is as good if not better ? | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: see the last post about Oracle | Aug 13 13:28 |
| schestowitz | It says which case, links therein have patent numbers too | Aug 13 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Really if all patent cases were done out in the open we would have less problems. | Aug 13 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Ms never wants to say what patents are th issue. | Aug 13 13:32 |
| MinceR | if they refuse to tell specifics then they should be ignored | Aug 13 13:33 |
| MinceR | because that's FUD | Aug 13 13:33 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat could work around patents | Aug 13 13:40 |
| schestowitz | That's what it said | Aug 13 13:41 |
| oiaohm | And RedHat has done that a few times as well. schestowitz | Aug 13 13:41 |
| MinceR | if patents can be worked around then what's the point to them? :> | Aug 13 13:41 |
| oiaohm | The work arounds normally don't work ideal. | Aug 13 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Remember freetype and autogenerated hinting. MinceR | Aug 13 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Because file include hinting was off limits due to patent. | Aug 13 13:42 |
| schestowitz | Thanks to Steve "we're shaemless about stealking" Jobs | Aug 13 13:44 |
| MinceR | what if i include hinting in a separate file? | Aug 13 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Apple patents covered that as well MinceR | Aug 13 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Yes thank god they are expired now. | Aug 13 13:48 |
| MinceR | crApple must die | Aug 13 13:49 |
| oiaohm | IBM patents are worse. | Aug 13 13:50 |
| oiaohm | IBM has mastered the art of what they call barbed wiring. | Aug 13 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Take out patent making sure it covered all possible even logically insane ways of doing the task. | Aug 13 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Heck IBM even took out a patent for being a patent troll. | Aug 13 13:52 |
| schestowitz | http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2010/Aug-13.html < scroll down to images | Aug 13 13:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Initial Thoughts on Oracle vs Google Patent Lawsuit - Miguel de Icaza .::. Size~: 22.9 KB | Aug 13 13:53 |
| schestowitz | Seems like the stalkker is buddies with the Microsoft MVP | Aug 13 13:53 |
| MinceR | funny how C++ has none of these patent issues | Aug 13 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Boy they don't know orcale. schestowitz | Aug 13 13:57 |
| oiaohm | orcale in there history has never settled a patent case for cash that they started. | Aug 13 13:58 |
| schestowitz | The thing is, I don't want to knock Oracle | Aug 13 14:37 |
| schestowitz | It has too many FOSS projects | Aug 13 14:37 |
| MinceR | it also has a bad attitude | Aug 13 14:37 |
| schestowitz | I think I'll not cover this news much, I'll let others do it | Aug 13 14:37 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: well, it has TheLarry :-) | Aug 13 14:37 |
| MinceR | yeah | Aug 13 14:37 |
| MinceR | One Rich Asshole Called Larry Ellison | Aug 13 14:37 |
| oiaohm | I will say it will be interesting to see how this plays out. | Aug 13 14:38 |
| MinceR | indeed. | Aug 13 14:38 |
| oiaohm | Scary thing would be if google and orcale walks out of this laughing as best friends. | Aug 13 14:38 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: In Search of the Perfect KDE4 Distro – 4 Linux Mint 9? http://g33q.co.za/2010/08/12/in-search-of-the-perfect-kde4-distro-4-linux-mint-9/ | Aug 13 14:40 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: In Search of the Perfect KDE4 Distro 4 Linux Mint 9? - Tech .::. Size~: 39.16 KB | Aug 13 14:40 |
| schestowitz | MinceR too, I guess | Aug 13 14:40 |
| schestowitz | He seems to be Soul-searching distros | Aug 13 14:40 |
| MinceR | indeed | Aug 13 14:40 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: so why damage Java in the first place? | Aug 13 14:40 |
| MinceR | is Linux Mint 9 still ubuntu-based? | Aug 13 14:41 |
| schestowitz | Oracle shoots its own asset in the foot | Aug 13 14:41 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: maybe debian soon | Aug 13 14:41 |
| schestowitz | Clem hasn't decided AFAIK | Aug 13 14:41 |
| MinceR | until then Mint is not for me :> | Aug 13 14:42 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: You are not getting it Android was already damaging Java | Aug 13 14:43 |
| oiaohm | Android related system allows people to extend and keep secret. | Aug 13 14:43 |
| oiaohm | For core frameworks that can be damaging long term. | Aug 13 14:44 |
| oiaohm | In Oracle eyes they could be taking a harm now of the latter good. | Aug 13 14:44 |
| MinceR | or they could be killing java out of mercy? :> | Aug 13 14:45 |
| oiaohm | No Oracle depends on java for too much. | Aug 13 14:45 |
| oiaohm | Killing java completely would take out about 40 percent of there core business MinceR | Aug 13 14:46 |
| schestowitz | The KDE desktop keeps getting better, and so does its Plasmoids. The two you have been shown here are only a tiny portion of an ever-expanding set of tools available for the KDE desktop. | Aug 13 14:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ghacks.net/2010/08/12/two-cool-kde-plasmoids/ | Aug 13 14:46 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Two cool KDE Plasmoids .::. Size~: 29.69 KB | Aug 13 14:46 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: SAP too | Aug 13 14:46 |
| schestowitz | Competitors | Aug 13 14:46 |
| schestowitz | But OOo | Aug 13 14:47 |
| oiaohm | OOo is used internally for document conversion by some of Oracle data storage products. schestowitz | Aug 13 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Yes before Orcale aquired sun they were using lots of sun parts. | Aug 13 14:48 |
| schestowitz | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ODUwMQ | Aug 13 14:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: [Phoronix] Well, Fedora 14 Will Not Ship On Time .::. Size~: 17.69 KB | Aug 13 14:56 |
| oiaohm | Sady predicatable schestowitz | Aug 13 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is always good at biting off more than they can chew. | Aug 13 14:57 |
| MinceR | better to release late than to release something half-done | Aug 13 15:05 |
| schestowitz | see Ubuntu for example :-) | Aug 13 15:06 |
| schestowitz | 6.06 the only exception | Aug 13 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Did that delay pay off? | Aug 13 15:06 |
| schestowitz | 6.10 Edgy was messy and edgy | Aug 13 15:06 |
| MinceR | hardy was most likely their only good release ever | Aug 13 15:10 |
| schestowitz | 8.04? | Aug 13 15:10 |
| schestowitz | l k j i.. | Aug 13 15:11 |
| MinceR | 8.04 LTS | Aug 13 15:12 |
| schestowitz | iirc there was 8,.04.1 | Aug 13 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Due to bugs | Aug 13 15:14 |
| MinceR | i have yet to see a bug-free OS release | Aug 13 15:21 |
| MinceR | except for my mini-winblows, of course :> | Aug 13 15:21 |
| *balrog_ is now known as balrog | Aug 13 15:22 | |
| balrog | hi all | Aug 13 15:26 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Aug 13 15:33 |
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| schestowitz | OMG. "the inventor of VBscript and OCX should be hanged by the balls. Twisted M*****F****R" http://identi.ca/notice/46026136 Strong words from a lawyer | Aug 13 17:41 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Carlo Piana (carlopiana)'s status on Friday, 13-Aug-10 11:31:02 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.13 KB | Aug 13 17:41 |
| MinceR | might be strong, but certainly true | Aug 13 19:29 |
| MinceR | twisted Micro$oFteR | Aug 13 19:30 |
| MinceR | ;) | Aug 13 19:30 |
| schestowitz | I hope he keeps it up | Aug 13 19:30 |
| schestowitz | Samba'a attorney | Aug 13 19:31 |
| schestowitz | My Java skills feel wasted | Aug 13 19:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: what do you code in for *eneral*? | Aug 13 19:31 |
| MinceR | C++ with Qt, for now | Aug 13 19:32 |
| schestowitz | My sister does Java | Aug 13 19:32 |
| schestowitz | On OpenSUSE | Aug 13 19:33 |
| MinceR | ew | Aug 13 19:33 |
| MinceR | at least it isn't winblows | Aug 13 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Many Java devs are pi**sed off if they have tons of code in it and a CV with that | Aug 13 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Like those with Solaris experience | Aug 13 19:33 |
| schestowitz | And imagine those devs for Android App Store | Aug 13 19:33 |
| MinceR | :. | Aug 13 19:33 |
| MinceR | :> | Aug 13 19:33 |
| schestowitz | App app app... | Aug 13 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Ape | Aug 13 19:34 |
| MinceR | the joys of investing into a platform owned by a single company | Aug 13 19:34 |
| schestowitz | I hate the word | Aug 13 19:34 |
| schestowitz | With a passion | Aug 13 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Artsy Apple devs... can't handle long words | Aug 13 19:34 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: the thing is, many platforms go this way | Aug 13 19:34 |
| schestowitz | It's in my interview to be published soon | Aug 13 19:34 |
| MinceR | it's just a shorthand for "application", hijacked by crApple | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | About how devs become slaves of some "Store" "somewhere" | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | In the past you put your download in your own site | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | App | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Apple | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | I reckon no coincidence there | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Maybe implicit | Aug 13 19:35 |
| MinceR | in crApple contexts, replace "App" with "crApp" ;) | Aug 13 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Implying some generic app for low-res if Apple's own innova~1 | Aug 13 19:36 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: crepes are yummy though | Aug 13 19:36 |
| schestowitz | With jam... | Aug 13 19:36 |
| *schestowitz drools | Aug 13 19:36 | |
| MinceR | indeed | Aug 13 19:37 |
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| *Balzac is now known as squarepeg | Aug 13 20:43 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/08/13/business/global/AP-EU-Germany-Economy.html?partner=rss&emc=rss | Aug 13 22:24 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.25 KB | Aug 13 22:24 |
| schestowitz | "Germany's economy surged ahead in the second quarter, growing 2.2 percent -- the fastest pace for at least two decades and beating market forecasts -- as a global recovery fed demand for its exports." | Aug 13 22:30 |
| schestowitz | http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/oracle-sues-android-hours-after-posing-as-open-source-advocate-at-linuxcon-this-week/7146 | Aug 13 23:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | Title: Oracle sues Android hours after posing as open source advocate at LinuxCon this week | ZDNet .::. Size~: 120.6 KB | Aug 13 23:07 |
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