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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: August 22nd, 2010

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oiaohm  Is this going starting to profit from plaforms.Aug 22 01:04
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Chromium Blog: Security improvements and registration updates for the Google Chrome Extensions Gallery .::. Size~: 35.25 KBAug 22 01:04
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schestowitz"Their partnership makes possible specially enhanced chips that could help encrypt data faster to protect email privacy and help authenticate the identity of users before they boot up portable devices or tap into corporate networks, other industry executives said. "Aug 22 06:23
schestowitzTCAug 22 06:23
schestowitz 22 06:23
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Intel Looks to Protect More Than Computers - .::. Size~: 127.59 KBAug 22 06:23
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oiaohm 22 10:44
TechrightsBot-trTitle: ZDNet Government Archive: December, ther | ZDNet .::. Size~: 79.08 KBAug 22 10:44
oiaohminterestingAug 22 10:44
oiaohmzdnet calling for laws against the very thing that lets windows compeete.Aug 22 10:44
schestowitzFits my next post, thanksAug 22 10:50
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gnufreex..Aug 22 20:00
_GoblinahAug 22 20:00
_Goblin...Aug 22 20:00
gnufreexI am thinkig about changing nick. gnufreex is somewhat stupid. I didn't realize that when I first used it.Aug 22 20:01
cubevectoris there also techrights-social?Aug 22 20:01
_Goblinthere done..Aug 22 20:04
_Goblinok... hopefully people will start chatting here nowAug 22 20:06
_GoblinI notice Diablo is not here yet...maybe they havent noticed yet.Aug 22 20:07
cubevectorhe's already in techrights-social btwAug 22 20:07
gnufreex 22 20:07
TechrightsBot-trTitle: FSF launches a denial-of-service attack on Apple's Genius Bars | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 132.35 KBAug 22 20:07
gnufreexI just got remainded what kind of ididot Mac Asay isAug 22 20:07
_GoblinI hope that we just have one channel....I think its simpler and we won't miss out on anything.Aug 22 20:08
cubevectorI don't read Asay's stuffAug 22 20:08
gnufreexThis is old. DaemonFC throwed it as support for his trollingAug 22 20:08
schestowitz[20:07] <_Goblin> I notice Diablo is not here yet...maybe they havent noticed yet.Aug 22 20:09
schestowitzWe'll tell the rest laterAug 22 20:09
schestowitz links to techrights nowAug 22 20:09
TechrightsBot-trTitle: IRC Channels | Techrights .::. Size~: 75.32 KBAug 22 20:09
schestowitzupdatedAug 22 20:09
_GoblinexcellentAug 22 20:11
_Goblinnow the only prob I have is work out why I am having trouble with flash.....Aug 22 20:12
gnufreexWhat flash?Aug 22 20:12
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gnufreexIs there flash on Techrights?Aug 22 20:13
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schestowitzNopeAug 22 20:14
cubevectoryou really don't have to use flashAug 22 20:14
cubevectorit's mostly used for adsAug 22 20:15
schestowitzand spyingAug 22 20:16
schestowitzDelete .macromediaAug 22 20:16
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] @thistleweb we're deprecating #boycottnovell at this moment and move things over to #techrights. Ryan is permbanned for cursing peopleAug 22 20:16
_Goblintrue...Aug 22 20:17
_Goblinits more annoying than actually needing it.Aug 22 20:17
schestowitzI never liked the old nameAug 22 20:17
_GoblinI just can't work out why its not playing nicely with me..Aug 22 20:17
schestowitzA few months ago we had just ~10 people hereAug 22 20:17
_Goblinwhat BN?Aug 22 20:17
schestowitzIn this channelAug 22 20:17
cubevectorI like techrights a million times betterAug 22 20:18
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schestowitzThanks guysAug 22 20:20
gnufreexFurnaceDude is not here.Aug 22 20:21
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schestowitzYeah, I've just pinged himAug 22 20:21
schestowitzhe's in -socialAug 22 20:22
gnufreexLet's gues how much will take DeamenFuCker to find us.Aug 22 20:23
gnufreexI say he will be hire in a hour.Aug 22 20:23
schestowitzHe knows it existsAug 22 20:24
schestowitz 22 20:25
TechrightsBot-trTitle: VMware Zimbra Offers Business a Microsoft Exchange Alternative - Microsoft news from Channel Insider .::. Size~: 84.93 KBAug 22 20:25
schestowitzIt seems like somewhat of a VMware captiveAug 22 20:25
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] Channel #techrights at FreeNode is now the main discussion channel of #techrights ; those w/o an IRC client can use Web 22 20:26
TechrightsBot-trTitle: IRC Channels | Techrights .::. Size~: 75.39 KBAug 22 20:26
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-BNi/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Channel #techrights at FreeNode is now the main discussion channel of !techrights ; those w/o an IRC client can use Web 22 20:28
-BNi/#techrights-[openbytes/@openbytes] Been a diehard Klibido user for years..shifted to LottaNZB...(been meaning to make the change for a while) !linux !foss !nzb !usenetAug 22 20:28
TechrightsBot-trTitle: IRC Channels | Techrights .::. Size~: 75.39 KBAug 22 20:28
schestowitz_Goblin: can I please use the sticker image?Aug 22 20:28
schestowitzThe photo you took, that is...Aug 22 20:29
FurnaceBoyeh, what on earth do Klibido or LottaNZB do, anywayAug 22 20:29
schestowitzI have a post coming calling for more people to demand their Seven-fold refund for VistaAug 22 20:29
schestowitz_Goblin: the guy who called you c* calls me Glenn again and uses the S word. "See, it's shit like this which causes me to use terms like "terminally stupid" to describe Glenn and his groupies." 22 20:30
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Twitter / Jo Shields: See, it's shit like this w ... .::. Size~: 11.93 KBAug 22 20:30
schestowitzNice people those Mono boosters...Aug 22 20:30
_GoblinWho's Glenn?Aug 22 20:32
schestowitz.BeckAug 22 20:32
schestowitzThe crazy Murdoch announcerAug 22 20:33
_GoblinJo Shields is a foul mouthed simpleton.....and re: Mono there are more people worried about it than for it...If there are groupies, I suggest its the pro-Mono lot that deserve that title.Aug 22 20:33
schestowitz_Goblin: 22 20:33
TechrightsBot-trTitle: YouTube- Glenn Beck Crying On-Air .::. Size~: 110.11 KBAug 22 20:34
schestowitzHe's a Palin boosterAug 22 20:34
_Goblinlol...Aug 22 20:34
_Goblincant play it...problem with flashAug 22 20:34
FurnaceBoymercifullyAug 22 20:34
_Goblinits really bugging me.....I just cannot work out whats wrong...Im loathed to ask for help....Aug 22 20:35
schestowitzGlorification of fallout: 22 20:35
TechrightsBot-trTitle: It only delays: the frustrations of Sony's PS3 firmware .::. Size~: 29.3 KBAug 22 20:35
schestowitz_Goblin: new tagline for theFriedAug 22 20:38
schestowitz"During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley." 22 20:38
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Ford exec: Internet needs to rev up | Beyond Binary - CNET News .::. Size~: 80.98 KBAug 22 20:38
schestowitzJust casually entering there the "don't attack me personally" disclaimerAug 22 20:39
schestowitzor "do attack me and you'll self-nuke"Aug 22 20:39
schestowitz 22 20:40
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Nintendo Sells 30 Million Wiis in US - PCWorld .::. Size~: 76.19 KBAug 22 20:40
schestowitzone in 10 peopleAug 22 20:40
_Goblinschestowitz: yep - a dangerous game to disagree.Aug 22 20:42
-BNi/#techrights-[openbytes/@openbytes] So LottaNZB does everything for me...parity chk, unpack and only d/l's .par files that are needed....great stuff.. !linux !usenetAug 22 20:43
schestowitz_Goblin: Ina has Costa Dee Dee MJ as a "yes man" in the commentsAug 22 20:43
schestowitzPolitically correct a must in "beyong binary"Aug 22 20:44
schestowitzWhich is also a Gates boosting blog now BTWAug 22 20:44
schestowitzMore on that tomorroqwAug 22 20:44
schestowitzI reckon Microsoft compensates for this PR blogAug 22 20:44
_Goblinschestowitz: da costa popped up on Openbytes todayAug 22 20:44
schestowitzre refund?>Aug 22 20:44
schestowitzOh wait. How did his Ubuntu 'experiment' go? Like ryan's?Aug 22 20:45
_Goblinschestowitz: defending Windows 7 and then pushing the buck to Acer for a refund...Aug 22 20:45
schestowitzNow he's the man with the "I tried Linux but..." badgeAug 22 20:45
_Goblinschestowitz: Yep, it was command line all the way for da costa and Ubuntu (allegedly)Aug 22 20:45
_Goblinschestowitz: of course you could let him loose on HAL and if it wasnt made by Microsoft he'd claim it inferiorAug 22 20:46
schestowitz 22 20:47
TechrightsBot-trTitle:         TVB | Facebook Climbs to Third in Online Video Viewing     .::. Size~: 63.63 KBAug 22 20:47
_Goblinah...facebook...the one social networking tool I never really got into....Aug 22 20:48
schestowitz"wasnt made by Microsoft" = "won't send me expensive gifts"Aug 22 20:48
_GoblinyepAug 22 20:48
_Goblinor any gifts.....Aug 22 20:48
schestowitzPeople seem to hate facebookAug 22 20:48
schestowitzEsp. adultsAug 22 20:48
_Goblinthey love a freebie them MVP'sAug 22 20:48
schestowitzEven those who got stuck in itAug 22 20:48
_GoblinI wonder what gifts De Icaza is getting?Aug 22 20:48
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[qu1j0t3] Where can I get one of these jobs where I am paid to lie? #microsoft .. oh wait, I don't want one. #ThatsTheDifferenceAug 22 20:49
schestowitzThai MassageAug 22 20:49
_Goblinor a ticket on one of those alleged Microsoft orgie cruises.Aug 22 20:49
schestowitzWith InaAug 22 20:49
_Goblinno commentAug 22 20:49
_Goblin:)Aug 22 20:49
schestowitz 22 20:50
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Microsoft 'offered sex and drugs to distributors' • Channel Register .::. Size~: 20.18 KBAug 22 20:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I've met some trenchant twitter haters. here, even.Aug 22 20:50
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: I might be among themAug 22 20:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: lolAug 22 20:50
schestowitzI started with identicaAug 22 20:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: except you DO use it.Aug 22 20:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: I am sure they hate too.Aug 22 20:50
schestowitzI resented the lack of people I could reply toAug 22 20:50
_GoblinIm so pleased I spend more time with now...its so much better.Aug 22 20:50
schestowitzI tried to get glyn to join identicaAug 22 20:50
schestowitzThen he went on and on about "network effect"Aug 22 20:50
schestowitzHe only joined identica much, much laterAug 22 20:51
schestowitzidentca has factions/groupAug 22 20:51
schestowitzENtry barrier makes it more polite tooAug 22 20:51
schestowitz"Microsoft_wantsAug 22 20:51
schestowitz"Microsoft_wants_to_gift is following you...."Aug 22 20:52
_Goblinright....Aug 22 20:53
_GoblinIm going to swallow my pride and ask for help in the Sabayon channel.Aug 22 20:54
schestowitz"microsoft_zune_MVP: RT @FurnaceBoy Microsoft is the suc.... #nvpbugg #swag #ballmerluvsu"Aug 22 20:54
_GoblinZuuunnnneeee!Aug 22 20:54
schestowitzIt's dyingAug 22 20:54
schestowitzArticle tomorrow...Aug 22 20:54
_Goblinit was ever alive?Aug 22 20:54
schestowitzlxnyAug 22 20:54
schestowitzZune was alive...Aug 22 20:54
schestowitzFor the policeAug 22 20:54
_GoblinIt will be regurgitated for Win Mob 7Aug 22 20:54
schestowitz 22 20:54
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Zune Guerrilla Marketer Arrested at SXSW .::. Size~: 80.85 KBAug 22 20:54
schestowitzSee photoAug 22 20:54
_GoblinlolAug 22 20:55
_GoblinI thought you meant Police as in "Message in a bottle"Aug 22 20:55
schestowitzImagine the funAug 22 20:55
schestowitzOf being a cop arresting mini-DeesAug 22 20:55
schestowitz"You!! Hold it right ther! promooting garbage in SXSW? Put your head between your feet!"Aug 22 20:56
_GoblinlolAug 22 20:56
_GoblinI think in the UK the Zune would fall under a Sec 5 Public order offense..."Causing Harrassment, Alarm or Distress"Aug 22 20:56
schestowitzHeheAug 22 20:57
_Goblinharrassment because you were bugged by MS PR to buy it.Aug 22 20:57
_GoblinAlarm because it wasn't as good as other products on the marketAug 22 20:57
_Goblinand distress because it was prone to crashing (as per the new years eve Zune blackout)Aug 22 20:57
schestowitz 22 20:58
TechrightsBot-trTitle: zune greenpeace - Google Search .::. Size~: 40.05 KBAug 22 20:58
schestowitzEd Bought has started the latest PR piece: 22 20:58
TechrightsBot-trTitle: When will XP finally fade away? | ZDNet  .::. Size~: 144.09 KBAug 22 20:58
_GoblinMind you I heard Crimestoppers are promoting the Zune as a crime prevention device....Aug 22 20:58
schestowitzLeading to waves among the other boostersAug 22 20:58
schestowitzWorth keeping an eye on...Aug 22 20:58
_GoblinWith a Zune sticking out of your back pocket there is no chance of being robbed or a victim of theft.Aug 22 20:59
schestowitz_Goblin:  yeah, well... Microsoft was promoting the KIN as an underage b00b thingAug 22 20:59
schestowitzWhen they aim for niches it means they can't sellAug 22 20:59
_Goblinschestowitz: my crimestoppers/zune thing was a split gag....Im sure you realized...Aug 22 21:00
schestowitzThe thing about KIN is, being among the 503 who bought one makes you feel like such a young b00nAug 22 21:00
schestowitz*b00bAug 22 21:00
_Goblinlol..I wonder how many of those 503 were people getting it for free..Aug 22 21:00
schestowitzIn Korea, only old people use KIN, they mistake it for denturesAug 22 21:00
_Goblinthat f'kin phone.Aug 22 21:01
schestowitzKIN=ewasteAug 22 21:01
schestowitzThey try to send this to AfricaAug 22 21:01
schestowitzTo bury with the toxinsAug 22 21:01
schestowitzThe Somali pirates attacked the shipAug 22 21:01
_GoblinI personally think that when Ballmer goes all the unwanted Kins should be dumped on his front lawnAug 22 21:02
schestowitzThey said, "we're willing to accept a lot of computer trash from the West in the Black COntinent? But KIN?? That's declaration of WAR."Aug 22 21:02
_Goblinthat would be a nice leaving present and more original than a watch or an engraved pen.Aug 22 21:02
_Goblinschestowitz: lol...wars have been fought for alot less.Aug 22 21:02
schestowitzKIN is too light to be more useful than a rockAug 22 21:03
schestowitzYou couldn't sell cavemen a KINAug 22 21:03
schestowitzIt's not handy for carving things and killing animals from a distanceAug 22 21:03
schestowitzIt also makes funny noisesAug 22 21:03
schestowitzAnd emits radiationAug 22 21:03
_Goblinhow about BP plug up their oil well with Kins?  Since it appears Windows was around when things went wrong, maybe MS could make ammends?Aug 22 21:03
schestowitzHeheAug 22 21:03
*nappel2k (6d5a8172@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #techrightsAug 22 21:03
schestowitzImagine thatAug 22 21:03
_GoblinI can!Aug 22 21:04
schestowitzA load of this plastic... not the spongy itsAug 22 21:04
schestowitzKIN's 15 minutes of fameAug 22 21:04
_Goblin15 minutes of wasn't on the market much longer!Aug 22 21:04
_GoblinIm going to dent my BP idea...Aug 22 21:05
schestowitzToo lateAug 22 21:05
schestowitzI beat you to itAug 22 21:05
schestowitzBefore you mentioned it... I could not resistAug 22 21:05
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] Verizon is said to have returned the unsold KINs to Microsoft. They ought to have just attempted to plug BP's hole with them.Aug 22 21:06
_Goblinlol...Aug 22 21:06
_Goblinfair playAug 22 21:06
_Goblinhe who dares wins.Aug 22 21:06
_GoblinI'll settle for a retweet.Aug 22 21:07
_Goblinor a re-dentAug 22 21:07
-BNi/#techrights-[openbytes/@openbytes] RT @schestowitz Verizon is said to have returned the unsold KINs to Microsoft. They ought to have just attempted to plug BP's hole with ...Aug 22 21:08
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] When I come to think about it, even mother Earth would reject KIN. Here's a better resting place/cradle for #KIN . 22 21:09
TechrightsBot-trTitle: iPod Amnesty Bin | Flickr - Photo Sharing! .::. Size~: 158.06 KBAug 22 21:09
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] "Microsoft's Kin Smartphones Could Eclipse Windows Phone 7" --Microsoft Nick ( #pr #lies #badjournalismAug 22 21:12
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Microsoft's Kin Smartphones Could Eclipse Windows Phone 7 - Mobile and Wireless from eWeek .::. Size~: 102.87 KBAug 22 21:12
_GoblinlolAug 22 21:14
_Goblinwell if Win Mob 7 sells less than 503 then it will...Aug 22 21:14
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] is now a redirection. I was trying to find out how Microsoft describes the phone which sold just 503 units. 22 21:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Internet Archive Wayback Machine .::. Size~: 10.09 KBAug 22 21:15
_Goblinalthough MS is giving away win mob to its employees so it will claim success on day one.Aug 22 21:15
_Goblinamazing though that everyone else knew it would flop.....Aug 22 21:15
schestowitz<a href="" title="HP confirms tablets coming soon"></a>Aug 22 21:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: HP confirms tablets coming soon - Silicon Valley / San Jose Business Journal .::. Size~: 72.17 KBAug 22 21:16
_Goblinmonths before the damn thing was ever released.Aug 22 21:16
schestowitz_Goblin: yeah, I was gonna say itAug 22 21:16
schestowitzThe big buyer of Vista Phone 7.... is MicrosoftAug 22 21:16
schestowitz"We'll have 80,000!!"Aug 22 21:17
schestowitzFor cleaners and plumbers too"Aug 22 21:17
schestowitzThe latter can stick it in the arsecrack, although KIN was designed better for thisAug 22 21:17
schestowitz 22 21:18
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Cameron Diaz tops malware bait list - Computerworld .::. Size~: 78.63 KBAug 22 21:18
schestowitz 22 21:19
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Cameron Diaz tops malware bait list| Reuters .::. Size~: 51.38 KBAug 22 21:19
_Goblinschestowitz: as soon as first reports come in on alleged "sales" of Winmob 7, Im sure there will be plenty of article on how many they gave away for makes the Windows Mobile 7 failure even more expensive...mind you, in 100 years those 80,000 phones might be collectors items.Aug 22 21:20
_Goblinas will the Kin.Aug 22 21:20
gnufreexschestowitz: Did Floyd tolled more on Techrights?Aug 22 21:20
gnufreexI can't find the treadAug 22 21:20
gnufreexthread*Aug 22 21:20
gnufreexForgot the nameAug 22 21:21
schestowitzgnufreex: 22 21:22
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Campaigner for Hire Blames IBM for Air Crash | Techrights .::. Size~: 140.43 KBAug 22 21:22
gnufreexschestowitz: Thanks.Aug 22 21:22
schestowitz_Goblin: one of Red Hat's chief legal people RTd itAug 22 21:22
schestowitz 22 21:22
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Dr. Roy Schestowitz (schestowitz)'s status on Sunday, 22-Aug-10 20:05:20 UTC - .::. Size~: 8.15 KBAug 22 21:22
schestowitzSo his colleague at RHT might have a laughAug 22 21:22
_Goblinlol...Aug 22 21:23
_Goblingood effort!Aug 22 21:23
*Aondo_ is now known as AondoAug 22 21:24
*schestowitz gets brewAug 22 21:28
gnufreexFloyd got another response on IT world:Aug 22 21:28
gnufreex>"[...] told members of the FOSS community that Oracle was going to be the best home for those Sun patents that could really hurt free and open source software if Microsoft ever acquired them (although Microsoft never made a bid for Sun)."<Aug 22 21:28
gnufreexNice spin there. Those who don't know what was state of affairs during Sun acquisition, might even believe you that Eben Moglen is brainless Microsoft-hater.Aug 22 21:28
gnufreexHowever, truth is different. If Oracle acquisition failed, Sun would have been forced by investors to sell some assets and downsize in order to turn profits. Or maybe sell piece by piece to highest bidder until nothing is left. In case of auction, you will never know where Sun patents would end up. Some might even end up with patent trolls or Microsoft. So Moglen was right. Oracle was better choice than the alternative. And stilAug 22 21:28
gnufreex is.Aug 22 21:28
gnufreexBtw, I think other anonymous was right. You are just a spinmeister.Aug 22 21:28
schestowitz 22 21:28
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Groklaw - Oracle v. Google Timeline .::. Size~: 24.16 KBAug 22 21:28
gnufreex 22 21:28
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Lawsuit Raises Questions about Open Invention Network, Linux Foundation - comments | ITworld .::. Size~: 87.58 KBAug 22 21:28
schestowitzgnufreex: Floydian has another spinAug 22 21:29
schestowitzHe wants people to believe he wanted to save JavaAug 22 21:29
schestowitzUtter lieAug 22 21:29
schestowitzHe just played for MontyAug 22 21:29
schestowitzWho paid himAug 22 21:29
schestowitzAnd it was only about mysqlAug 22 21:29
schestowitzLike having Oracle sell itAug 22 21:30
schestowitzThe revisionist version is that he wanted to 'save' Sun from OracleAug 22 21:30
schestowitzNot MySQL, which was bought in 2008Aug 22 21:30
schestowitzThe heroic 'foss' patents Florian rides the white horse with his VIsta 7 laptop... supposedly to save Linux... from IBM :-) :-)Aug 22 21:31
gnufreexHahaAug 22 21:32
schestowitzLet me dent it actuallyAug 22 21:32
gnufreexIt is crazy that some people on lwn say 'he is fighting the good fight'Aug 22 21:33
gnufreexOr something along those linesAug 22 21:33
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] #FreaksAndGeeks: #disturbing ly accurate. Why do parents tell geeky kids bullies are jealous? As Lindsey says:"It's stupid & won't help him"Aug 22 21:33
gnufreexschestowitz: What do you use for reporting/Aug 22 21:34
gnufreex?Aug 22 21:34
gnufreexI am thinking of seting up JasperReports, but it's fauxpen sourceAug 22 21:34
gnufreexI will investigate spagoAug 22 21:34
schestowitzYeahAug 22 21:35
schestowitzCoreAug 22 21:35
schestowitzfauxpen coreAug 22 21:35
gnufreexI want to use reporting library to serve me news from various sources. I rulled out BIRT, it is crap and it is not GPL.Aug 22 21:37
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] Florian the 'Foss' (LOL) patents guy is heroically fighting to save Linux... from IBM (LOL). @fosspatents you should try using #Linux 1 dayAug 22 21:38
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] Apple Looks To Take Over X Server 1.9 "We've always been shameless about stealing great ideas." -Steve JobsAug 22 21:40
TechrightsBot-trTitle: [Phoronix] Apple Looks To Take Over X Server 1.9 Release Management .::. Size~: 19.3 KBAug 22 21:40
*balrog ( has joined #techrightsAug 22 21:42
balrogschestowitz: you around?Aug 22 21:43
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[slashdot] Electronic Voting Researcher Arrested In India 22 21:43
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Electronic Voting Researcher Arrested In India .::. Size~: 48.23 KBAug 22 21:43
schestowitzYeahAug 22 21:43
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] Was #FreaksAndGeeks canceled in part b/c expensive music budget? Still, playing Cream's White Room while geeks are towel-beaten is genius.Aug 22 21:43
balrogI'm curious as to how you get the idea that apple wants to steal xorg-server-1.9 development ... I've been running the alpha/community versions for some time now and they do a stellar job keeping it up to dateAug 22 21:43
balrogwhat they're probably going to be doing, though, is changing the default server shipped with OS X to 1.9.1Aug 22 21:44
balrog(currently if you want something that's not outdated, you have to install the community version that Huddleston puts out)Aug 22 21:44
schestowitzSee WebkitAug 22 21:44
balrogWebkit is differentAug 22 21:45
schestowitzAnd what happened to KHTMLTo a lesser extent CUPSAug 22 21:45
balrogApple needed a web browser (they didn't have one)Aug 22 21:45
balrogApple doesn't need an X serverAug 22 21:45
schestowitzThey could collaborate with KDEAug 22 21:45
balrognearly all OSX software doesn't even though XAug 22 21:45
schestowitzTHey didn'tAug 22 21:45
schestowitzThey overrode their workAug 22 21:45
balrogthey do collaborate with Xorg, thoughAug 22 21:45
balrogthe repo for their branch of xorg-server is not seperate from the main branchesAug 22 21:46
schestowitzFor nowAug 22 21:46
balrogthey don't care about Xorg so muchAug 22 21:46
balrogit's never going to be a core system component (as are webkit and cups)Aug 22 21:46
balrogtoo many Mac users hate it and it doesn't integrate wellAug 22 21:46
balrogit's just there for compatibility purposesAug 22 21:46
gnufreexI am scared what Apple will do with LLVM-ClangAug 22 21:47
gnufreexThey are funding it to displace GCCAug 22 21:47
balroggnufreex: s/Apple will do/anyone can do/gAug 22 21:47
gnufreexAnd then they will close it.Aug 22 21:47
balrogabout closing it? I doubt itAug 22 21:47
balrogimplementing proprietary extensions? Of course, they're doing it alreadyAug 22 21:47
schestowitzWhy do you always defend Apple so much?Aug 22 21:47
balrogXcode 4 uses clang internallyAug 22 21:47
balrogit's proprietaryAug 22 21:48
balrogthey could never do that with gccAug 22 21:48
gnufreexbalrog: Apple has closed source objective-C library. That is only reason why gobj-c sucksAug 22 21:48
gnufreexIt works well with OSXAug 22 21:48
gnufreexWith their runtime libraryAug 22 21:48
schestowitzApple exploits FOSSAug 22 21:48
schestowitzX includedAug 22 21:48
FurnaceBoyhey balrog fancy meeting you hereAug 22 21:48
schestowitzIt even brags about itAug 22 21:48
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[sjvn] RT @Malaprops: If you spend $50 + on, you receive a $5 gift card from us? It's TRUE! Me: I didn't. #AshevilleAug 22 21:49
gnufreexBut we have to reverse engineer their ObjC libararyAug 22 21:49
balroggnufreex: AFAIK it's not that much about closed source, but more about it being not very portable to non-Mach systemsAug 22 21:49
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schestowitzRed Hat is the oppositeAug 22 21:49
FurnaceBoygnufreex: you are aware that apple did donate the objective-c front end to gcc, tho?Aug 22 21:49
gnufreexTheir ObjC library is closedAug 22 21:49
gnufreexI was always closedAug 22 21:49
balrog 22 21:49
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balrognot the whole thing, obviouslyAug 22 21:49
MinceR224742 < schestowitz> Why do you always defend Apple so much?Aug 22 21:49
MinceRthat's what fanboys doAug 22 21:49
balrogif you're referring to the Objective-C library as all of Foundation, CoreFoundation, and everything else, then huge swaths ARE closedAug 22 21:50
schestowitzMinceR: customersAug 22 21:50
FurnaceBoybalrog: indeed. lamentably.Aug 22 21:50
gnufreexApple 'donated' objc compiler because Stallman told Jobs that he will sue him for GPL infringementAug 22 21:50
schestowitzIt's self reassuranceAug 22 21:50
FurnaceBoygnufreex: cite?Aug 22 21:50
MinceRcultistsAug 22 21:50
schestowitz"I bought a Mac, now I need to defend it"Aug 22 21:50
MinceRsame thingAug 22 21:50
gnufreexFurnaceBoy: What city?Aug 22 21:51
schestowitzbalrog: it's the same Apple monstert that feeds MPEG-LArry HornAug 22 21:51
FurnaceBoynot the French word. the English/Latin word.Aug 22 21:51
MinceRbuyer's remorseAug 22 21:51
schestowitz"Come to us, to APple, we are SAFE"Aug 22 21:51
gnufreexConsider GNU Objective C. NeXT initially wanted to make this front end proprietary; they proposed to release it as .o files, and let users link them with the rest of GCC, thinking this might be a way around the GPL's requirements. But our lawyer said that this would not evade the requirements, that it was not allowed. And so they made the Objective C front end free software.Aug 22 21:51
schestowitzIBM plays the same gameAug 22 21:51
MinceRcognitive dissonanceAug 22 21:51
gnufreex 22 21:51
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balrogschestowitz: oh I don't defend everything apple does, but some statements I see are just somewhat absurdAug 22 21:51
schestowitz"We're safe, we paid for patents, come buy our super-expensive products that do the same"Aug 22 21:52
balrogapple doesn't even have much of a use for xorgAug 22 21:52
schestowitzexactlyAug 22 21:52
schestowitz!Aug 22 21:52
balrogclang, on the other hand? very usefulAug 22 21:52
schestowitzOf courseAug 22 21:52
schestowitzIt can kill gccAug 22 21:53
schestowitzapple doesn't even have much of a use for gcccAug 22 21:53
balrogI don't see them closing it though, but using it in non-gpl-approved ways? of course, and they're already doign itAug 22 21:53
gnufreexbalrog: see above why ObjC front end is free softwareAug 22 21:53
balrogdoign *Aug 22 21:53
schestowitzI couldn't put it better myself :-)Aug 22 21:53
OsamaKSo Eben at debconf was saying that Microsoft is dieing because it does not produce software that runs everywhere. How realistic is this?Aug 22 21:53
schestowitzOracle doesn't even have much of a use for mysqlAug 22 21:53
gnufreexbalrog: Jobs released it because he would be sued.Aug 22 21:53
schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't even have much of a use for Java..Aug 22 21:53
MinceRif they had a clue, they'd have a lot of use for itAug 22 21:53
MinceRbut they don't :>Aug 22 21:53
schestowitzAnd on and on it goesAug 22 21:53
balrogschestowitz: maintainership != ownershipAug 22 21:53
balrogand the guy who maintains apple's branch is really good at what he doesAug 22 21:54
schestowitzApple is like the big gorilla taking care of a baby chimpAug 22 21:54
balrog(and there again, apple's branch has gone closer and closer to mainline recently)Aug 22 21:54
balrogapple doesn't even need xorgAug 22 21:54
schestowitzIt can crush it if it wantsAug 22 21:54
schestowitzbalrog: exactlyAug 22 21:54
schestowitzThat's the problemAug 22 21:54
schestowitzApple completes with AndroidAug 22 21:54
balrogsorry guys, I don't get itAug 22 21:54
schestowitzWhat does Android use?Aug 22 21:54
balrogandroid doesn't use xorgAug 22 21:54
schestowitzApple also competes with GNU/LinuxAug 22 21:55
balrogit uses its own GUI environment that google engineeredAug 22 21:55
schestowitzI don't need Jobs&Gangster entryists in projects I useAug 22 21:55
schestowitzApple will add to these project only what serves AppleAug 22 21:55
schestowitzAnd Apple hardly even depends on thoseAug 22 21:55
schestowitzApple is a gadget marketing companyAug 22 21:55
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: that's not exactly a crime, now, is it.Aug 22 21:55
schestowitzAndroid is a huge problem to themAug 22 21:56
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it's expected that oss contributors do thatAug 22 21:56
schestowitz 22 21:56
balrogwell, the other xorg developers will be working on 1.10 right?Aug 22 21:56
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balrogand important fixes will get backported to 1.9, right?Aug 22 21:56
schestowitz 22 21:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Apple's China contractor plans to hire 400,000 - Sacramento Business Journal .::. Size~: 72.33 KBAug 22 21:56
schestowitz"think about the children"Aug 22 21:56
schestowitz:-)Aug 22 21:56
balrogno time for ad hominem attacks on apple, hereAug 22 21:57
balrogthe other hardware companies aren't that much better :(Aug 22 21:57
gnufreexbalrog: Apple is more anoying.Aug 22 21:58
gnufreexbalrog: And they have more fanboys. Without a brain.Aug 22 21:58
balroglinux has its share of such fanboys, so does windowsAug 22 21:58
gnufreexNot like Apple. Apple and BSD fanboys are worst kind.Aug 22 21:59
balrogwhat about the issue of modifying BSDL code slightly and relicensing it as GPL? That's been cited to me by several people as a reason why they dislike GPL and moreso GPL-pushersAug 22 22:01
gnufreexIf those guys don't like it, they should not release code under BSD license. They should use GPL instead, and then nobody can rip their license.Aug 22 22:02
gnufreexNot even AppleAug 22 22:03
schestowitzbalrog: Apple is not a homo (man)Aug 22 22:03
schestowitzSo it can't be ad hominemAug 22 22:03
schestowitzI'm talking about Apple's character... it's a group of people with HubrisAug 22 22:03
balrogthat kind of character can be seen elsewhere too, including with some groups of Windows pushers, GPL pushers, and othersAug 22 22:04
balrogand ad-hominem can refer to an attack on an entityAug 22 22:05
schestowitzThat's a new defnitionAug 22 22:07
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: if one accepts corporate personhood :)Aug 22 22:07
schestowitz 22 22:07
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schestowitz"An ad hominem, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"),"Aug 22 22:07
schestowitzPutting aside the use of the word "homo" in the context of Apple, you realise Apple is no "man", right?Aug 22 22:08
balrog"[Latin, To the person.] A term used in debate to denote an argument made personally against an opponent, instead of against the opponent's argument." -- West's Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.Aug 22 22:08
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: also frequently overlooked is the 'argumentum' part.Aug 22 22:08
schestowitzIt's a friggin logoAug 22 22:08
schestowitzAnd people pushing money to hypnotise people around this logoAug 22 22:08
schestowitzWhile working kids in China till they sweat bullets before they grow public hairAug 22 22:08
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: co-worker once accused me of 'ad hominem' because I said Rush Limbaugh was ugly. Straight statement... there was no 'argumentum' :DAug 22 22:09
schestowitzIf cursing a logo is personal attack, then maybe call me blasphemous tooAug 22 22:09
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[davidgerard] Wikimedia blog: Staring into the eye of Cthulhu. - why #wikipedia wikitext is SO HORRIBLE TO PROCESS.Aug 22 22:09
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Staring into the eye of Cthulhu. «  David Gerard .::. Size~: 16.31 KBAug 22 22:09
schestowitzFOr dissing the Apple 'religion'Aug 22 22:09
balrogFurnaceBoy: that's not ad hominemAug 22 22:09
FurnaceBoybalrog: of course it isn't.Aug 22 22:09
FurnaceBoybalrog: a frequently lost subtlety.Aug 22 22:09
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: you could say he looked like a rhinoAug 22 22:09
schestowitzIt's an objective observationAug 22 22:09
schestowitz:-) Rush Limbaugh is what comes out of the rhino if it eats too muchAug 22 22:10
schestowitz 22 22:11
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balrogbleh all these "conservative" radio personalities make real conservatives just look badAug 22 22:13
balrogughAug 22 22:13
*desu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)Aug 22 22:13
FurnaceBoywell has been poisoned beyond repairAug 22 22:14
FurnaceBoythere is no intelligent mainstream discourse in the USAAug 22 22:14
*FurnaceBoy blames MurdochAug 22 22:14
FurnaceBoyit was his job to destroy it.Aug 22 22:14
FurnaceBoyMission, comme on dit, Accomplished.Aug 22 22:14
FurnaceBoywell done, thou good and faithful servant.Aug 22 22:15
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[thistleweb] @schestowitz if permbanned means permanently banned, then define permanentAug 22 22:16
schestowitzMurdoch's ties with GOP are clearer nowAug 22 22:17
schestowitzThey always have beenAug 22 22:17
schestowitzBut the press shows it to more peopleAug 22 22:17
balrogthe majority of the GOP is not great either :(Aug 22 22:17
schestowitz'Dem damn liberals!"Aug 22 22:17
balrognot to say that the democrats are any betterAug 22 22:17
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] @thistleweb when recognised, he's outAug 22 22:18
schestowitzMurdoch is GOPAug 22 22:18
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #techrightsAug 22 22:18
schestowitzGreat Ol' PisserAug 22 22:18
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: his politics don't even matterAug 22 22:18
sebsebsebschestowitz: uhmm in the topic here it says to join the boycottnovell channelsAug 22 22:18
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: he's in that clan that doesn't have politics. incl Gates, and apparently Arianna my favouriteAug 22 22:18
schestowitzArianna did it againAug 22 22:19
schestowitzPost coming soonAug 22 22:19
schestowitz 22 22:20
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Bill Gates: Better Farms, Improved Lives .::. Size~: 246 KBAug 22 22:20
schestowitzArianna: "Look at MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! The rich man writes in ma turf!"Aug 22 22:20
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sebsebsebschestowitz: maybe BNTwitter shoudl ger re named to TRTwitter ?Aug 22 22:20
schestowitzYeah, I forgot to change thatAug 22 22:21
sebsebsebschestowitz: TRtwitterAug 22 22:21
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: you're right, basking in the Midas glowAug 22 22:21
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the God .. money.. and His High PriestAug 22 22:21
sebsebsebschestowitz: So when was it decided to move the channel properly?Aug 22 22:21
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: damn it! i thought it was decided to do a half assed job!Aug 22 22:22
*FurnaceBoy always misses memosAug 22 22:22
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schestowitzNExt time they start the names will be right, sebsebsebAug 22 22:22
schestowitzsebsebseb: tonightAug 22 22:23
-BNi/#techrights-[rms/@rms] In the name of security 22 22:23
sebsebsebWhy tonight?Aug 22 22:23
schestowitzRyan trolledAug 22 22:23
schestowitzAnd ban-evadedAug 22 22:23
schestowitzAgainAug 22 22:23
sebsebseboh?Aug 22 22:23
sebsebsebsoAug 22 22:24
sebsebsebhe trolled how by the way?Aug 22 22:24
schestowitzWe start afreshAug 22 22:24
schestowitzsebsebseb: anti-Ubuntu ravingsAug 22 22:24
schestowitzFrom his Vista 7 machineAug 22 22:24
schestowitzThen "gnutards" and stuffAug 22 22:24
schestowitzAnti-FSF messagesAug 22 22:24
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[ruiseabra] RT @bkuhn When will my fellow USAmericans finally grok this simple analogy?: Al-Qaeda is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christian Pr ...Aug 22 22:25
sebsebsebschestowitz: well I have done a little bit of  Ubuntu is bad stuff in #boycottnovell myself before,  like  the other day for example,  and yeah DeamonFC was doing it as well, and Thistleweb wasn't that happy about thatAug 22 22:25
sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah DeamonFC goes quite anti UbuntuAug 22 22:26
sebsebsebit seemsAug 22 22:26
sebsebseband if he mainly uses Windows,  and still does it, then yeah I guess he is a troll reallyAug 22 22:26
balrogI use debian and ubuntu all the time, and manage a centos serverAug 22 22:26
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balrog(debian moreso than ubuntu, mainly because ubuntu doesn't work on armv5tel)Aug 22 22:27
_GoblinWhy do some people fixate on Ubuntu? is it because it really is full of bugs/issues (I don't believe so) or is it because it currently is the mostly threatening distro to Windows? - just food for thought there.Aug 22 22:27
balrog_Goblin: probably the latterAug 22 22:27
sebsebsebthats one thing,  being a Linux user, who isn't that happy with Ubuntu at the moment, because of where it is heading,  thats another being someone who mainly uses Windows, and says Ubuntu is bad loadsAug 22 22:27
balrogalso, some hate that ubuntu uses certain Mono-based packagesAug 22 22:28
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] When will my fellow USAmericans finally grok this simple analogy?: Al-Qaeda is to Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christian Protestantism.Aug 22 22:28
_GoblinIm not saying there are genuine people with issues about ubuntu, but it seems the Wintrolls always go for Ubuntu.Aug 22 22:28
gnufreex<_Goblin> Why do some people fixate on Ubuntu? is it because it really is full of bugs/issues (I don't believe so) or is it because it currently is the mostly threatening distro to Windows? - just food for thought there.Aug 22 22:28
balrogahh that?Aug 22 22:28
balrogbiggest threat to windowsAug 22 22:28
balrogthat's whyAug 22 22:28
balrogalso gets all the pressAug 22 22:28
gnufreexWell I don't like it becasue of communityAug 22 22:29
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[nsisodiya] Can we correct English language now. Want to replace 'free-of-cost' with 'zerocost'. Do not use word 'free' for 'free of cost' use ZEROCOSTAug 22 22:29
sebsebsebschestowitz: maybe some rules or kind of for the channel,  I mean if going to start afresh as you say, without the channel being seen as a trollpit by quite a lot of people.  Oh yeah I think I read something on the site about that actsaully how you have done so.Aug 22 22:29
gnufreexAnd becasue of blobsAug 22 22:29
balroggnufreex: please elaborateAug 22 22:29
_Goblinbut is it not better for all the Linux newcommers go to one place?Aug 22 22:29
balrogalso blobs as in firmware or drivers?Aug 22 22:29
balrogit puts up a big warning if you're trying to install a blob driverAug 22 22:29
gnufreexbalrog: Ubuntu forums are full of shillsAug 22 22:29
gnufreexbalrog: They teach newcomers that GPL and FSF are badAug 22 22:30
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[ruiseabra] @schestowitz: even #openmoko sold much more than that!Aug 22 22:30
balroggnufreex: I don't read the forums, I'm not the kind of person that loves forumsAug 22 22:30
balrogbut I've found useful stuff thereAug 22 22:30
balrogGPL and FSF aren't bad, just like BSDL and Apache license aren't bad either ... all have their usesAug 22 22:30
sebsebsebSo DeamonFC is apparently a troll, because he did anti Ubuntu stuff whilst mainly being a WIndows user?   well theres a bit more to it then just that I guessAug 22 22:30
gnufreexbalrog: And mods support that bashingAug 22 22:30
balroggnufreex: ahAug 22 22:30
balrogsee I don't read forumsAug 22 22:30
balrogit's just meAug 22 22:30
balrogsebsebseb: I think it was more like bashing stuff without even trying/using it :(Aug 22 22:31
sebsebsebbalrog: ohAug 22 22:31
gnufreexbalrog: I deleted my Launchpad and UF accountsAug 22 22:31
sebsebsebgnufreex: How come?Aug 22 22:31
_GoblinI got a happy birthday message from the Ubuntu forums.Aug 22 22:31
schestowitzbalrog: yeah, I like your criticismsAug 22 22:32
sebsebseb_Goblin: Oh is your birthdayAug 22 22:32
schestowitzI know there's sincereAug 22 22:32
_Goblinnah....last weekAug 22 22:32
*sebsebseb isn't even a member on the Ubuntu forums, after using the distro since the second release in 2005Aug 22 22:32
balrogschestowitz: FYI I don't try to defend Apple, I just want to be fair :)Aug 22 22:32
gnufreexbalrog: For UF, I asked mods. For launchpad, I did it myself.Aug 22 22:32
_Goblin14th august.Aug 22 22:32
sebsebseband now I can't exactly sign up and use it a bit, without looking like a newbieAug 22 22:32
_GoblinI did tweet it.Aug 22 22:32
sebsebseb,but I don't erally want an account on there anyway so :DAug 22 22:32
sebsebseband IRC is enough for me really, if I am going to do Ubuntu supportAug 22 22:32
balrogI've used all major platforms, and various different Linux distrosAug 22 22:32
sebsebsebgnufreex: Why did you get rid of your UF and Launchpad accounts?Aug 22 22:33
sebsebsebschestowitz: So how long is Ryan banned for?Aug 22 22:33
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] RT @nsisodiya Can we correct English language now.Want to replace 'free-of-cost' with 'zerocost'. Do not use word 'free' for 'free of cost'Aug 22 22:34
gnufreexbalrog: Because I don't want to have anything to do with Ubuntu.Aug 22 22:34
sebsebsebgnufreex: no look who asked that :)Aug 22 22:34
balroggnufreex: you're responding to sebsebseb I thinkAug 22 22:34
balrogI have no problem with the OS itself. it works greatAug 22 22:34
balrogone of the best distros I've usedAug 22 22:34
balrogforums can be a cesspool thoughAug 22 22:34
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] @ruiseabra and it's still aroundAug 22 22:35
balroglaunchpad -- I don't think I'd get rid of thatAug 22 22:35
sebsebsebbalrog: cesspoll in this context means?  trolls? fan boys?Aug 22 22:35
balrogbugtracker too usefulAug 22 22:35
balrogsebsebseb: all kinds of people who don't contributeAug 22 22:35
schestowitzwhen I got my lp and uf accounts UF were cleanAug 22 22:35
balrogcontribute meaning help others, etcAug 22 22:35
schestowitzGood peopleAug 22 22:35
MinceR233208 < balrog> schestowitz: FYI I don't try to defend Apple, I just want to be fair :)Aug 22 22:35
schestowitzDaemonFC trolls UF tooAug 22 22:35
MinceRexactly what i'd expect a crApple fanboy to sayAug 22 22:35
sebsebsebUbuntu as a distro is okish  still, yes there are Gnome patches I don't like and such, but  its all the fanboyism that gets me now,  all the Ubuntu hypeAug 22 22:35
balrogMinceR: we all know you are heavily anti-appleAug 22 22:35
schestowitzHe shut down his LP accountAug 22 22:35
sebsebsebwhen really a lot of hte time for people, other distros are betterAug 22 22:35
MinceR(and that's what they usually say)Aug 22 22:35
balrogor you wouldn't use hater terms like crAppleAug 22 22:36
MinceRbalrog: and we all know you're a crApple fanboyAug 22 22:36
balrogMinceR: I'm using debian right nowAug 22 22:36
schestowitzNot fanboiAug 22 22:36
MinceR"waaaah, hater terms"Aug 22 22:36
sebsebseband then the ignorance as a result of the amount of fanboyism,  as a result, of the idea, that Ubuntu is the best distro to go to from Windows or Mac OS XAug 22 22:36
schestowitzMaybe apologistAug 22 22:36
balrogI don't support a lot of Apple's actionsAug 22 22:36
gnufreexTrolling is inevitable. But mods support it on UF, and even they troll themselves. Also, main admin is Mac fanboy who doesn't use UbuntuAug 22 22:36
*MinceR calls the waaambulance for balrAug 22 22:36
sebsebsebresulting in people going back to Windows or Mac OS X, when there hardware don't just work, instead of trying another distro first, and then doing so, if still a problemAug 22 22:36
balrogand some of the stuff they do eitherAug 22 22:36
schestowitzI try not to apologise for logosAug 22 22:36
schestowitzAnd to refer to behavioursAug 22 22:37
sebsebsebgnufreex: Why don't you like Ubuntu?Aug 22 22:37
sebsebsebgnufreex: The mods troll on UF?Aug 22 22:37
balrogtheir h.264 encoder is a piece of trash, and they use it to encode video that goes on the itunes storeAug 22 22:37
MinceRand yes, the "i use linux but" is an ancient m$ apologist yarnAug 22 22:37
balrogthere's the DRM too, but that's another thingAug 22 22:37
schestowitzsebsebseb: maybe the mod tolerate trollsAug 22 22:37
balrogMinceR: did I say "I use linux but.."?Aug 22 22:37
schestowitzUF let the anti-Linux crowd roamAug 22 22:37
gnufreexsebsebseb: Yes, mods are Microsoft apologists and Apple fanboys. In fact, not mods, just the Admin.Aug 22 22:37
schestowitzSo they use that to smear me tooAug 22 22:37
MinceRnot with these exact wordsAug 22 22:37
schestowitzAnd then people can link to UF and say, "look, even Ubuntu says Roy is..."Aug 22 22:38
sebsebsebgnufreex: some of the Ubuntu core IRC ops,  aren't exactly nice people,  from  certain experiences with them, and stuff I have read from their publically logged ops channelAug 22 22:38
MinceRgnufreex: well, the COO is a crApple fanboyAug 22 22:38
schestowitzI had a PAID Microsoft AstroTurfer do thatAug 22 22:38
balrogI have a screen session open into my linux boxAug 22 22:38
balrogall the timeAug 22 22:38
schestowitzLinking to Linsuxxxxxxxxxx junkAug 22 22:38
balrogssh+screenAug 22 22:38
schestowitzBut they posted in LFAug 22 22:38
MinceRand canonical has a vested interest in dicrediting TechRights nowAug 22 22:38
schestowitzAnd mods left it thereAug 22 22:38
balrogMinceR: cite plzAug 22 22:39
MinceRthey're pushing monoAug 22 22:39
schestowitzSo Wong-soft pretended it was UbuntuAug 22 22:39
MinceRbalrog: which one?Aug 22 22:39
schestowitz_Goblin would tell you..Aug 22 22:39
balrogMinceR: what about them replacing f-spot with shotwell?Aug 22 22:39
sebsebsebMinceR: discredtiing techrights now?  what do you mean exactly?Aug 22 22:39
balrogis THAT "pushing mono"?Aug 22 22:39
MinceRa red herringAug 22 22:39
MinceRbalrog: then they bring in bansheeAug 22 22:39
MinceRthey're certainly more careful than novellAug 22 22:39
MinceRsebsebseb: canonical runs UF. UF attacks TechRights.Aug 22 22:40
balrogMinceR: if something bad happens, don't you think Canonical will act fast?Aug 22 22:40
balrogMinceR: Canonical doesn't directly run UFAug 22 22:40
schestowitzNovell is careful too. It's full of care for RedmondAug 22 22:40
MinceRbalrog: that depend on where in m$'s plan it happensAug 22 22:40
balrogand forums, when not managed correctly, can be cesspools, as I said earlierAug 22 22:40
MinceRbalrog: canonical still has control over UF, do they not?Aug 22 22:40
sebsebsebMinceR: no the community runs UF  as far as I know, just like the community runs Ubuntu IRCAug 22 22:40
schestowitzMinceR: NoAug 22 22:40
balroglack of sufficient staffing can cause thatAug 22 22:40
schestowitzLinsu*** runs UFAug 22 22:40
schestowitzCanonical lets it beAug 22 22:40
gnufreexIf you post link to techrights on Ubuntu forums, 10 linusxers are going to atack you in second and they will claim you are extremist or zealotAug 22 22:40
schestowitzBased on gnufreexAug 22 22:41
balrogschestowitz: has anyone complained to canonical?Aug 22 22:41
sebsebsebschestowitz: Who runs UF?Aug 22 22:41
MinceRsebsebseb: the "community" that's getting full of mono cultistsAug 22 22:41
schestowitzThey let UF become another c.o.l.a.Aug 22 22:41
schestowitzUSENET has no moderation, but UF shouldAug 22 22:41
MinceRschestowitz: exactly, they let it be because it serves their interestsAug 22 22:41
MinceRand they give their name for itAug 22 22:41
balroglet me repeat: has anyone complained to canonical?Aug 22 22:41
balrognot to the mods, but to someone higher upAug 22 22:42
schestowitzI  think jono heardAug 22 22:42
schestowitzBut he plays buddies with peopleAug 22 22:42
schestowitzHe's not ham-fistedAug 22 22:42
gnufreexbalrog: Maybe it is Canonical oficial policy. I thought about sending mail to Suttleworth, but I think he won't listenAug 22 22:43
gnufreexI just have that feeling.Aug 22 22:43
balroggnufreex: is there a mailing list for this stuff?Aug 22 22:43
sebsebsebgnufreex: well schestowitz 's articles on the site,  its not really  my kind of Linux article writing style,  I mean what I can easilly read and understand properly,  its probably like this for a lot of other people as well to be honest.   I am not saying that the blog enteries are bad though, because they aren't,  just got to get used to who they are are done,  I remember how I talked to _Goblin  in the past about this,  and he told meAug 22 22:43
sebsebsebbasically, that after a while he could understand like 70% of the blog enteries properly.Aug 22 22:43
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[ruiseabra] @schestowitz: been posting dents from one ...Aug 22 22:44
sebsebsebhow they are done, not who they are done, aboveAug 22 22:44
schestowitzclaire Newman <>Aug 22 22:44
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sebsebsebgnufreex: so yeah for people who don't really understand the wording,  a lot of those blog enteries, may seem a bit extreameAug 22 22:44
_Goblinsebsebseb: its all about can't know everything about you see the articles and the bigger picture it all fits into place.Aug 22 22:44
sebsebsebfor people who don't really understand the wording/contextAug 22 22:44
gnufreexsebsebseb: The same dudes are linking to boycot-boycott novell. That is Lefty's crap.Aug 22 22:45
sebsebsebgnufreex: Lefty is that theAug 22 22:45
_Goblinthat name won't mean as much now....Aug 22 22:45
sebsebsebgnufreex: is Lefty a developer?Aug 22 22:45
schestowitzHAAHAHAAug 22 22:45
sebsebsebno I am thinking of someone onAug 22 22:45
sebsebsebomgubuntu that they go on aboutAug 22 22:45
gnufreexI don't know. I know he is a troll.Aug 22 22:45
sebsebsebthat has a L name as wellAug 22 22:46
schestowitzStonemirror?Aug 22 22:46
schestowitzHeart of stoneAug 22 22:46
schestowitzAnd mirror for the megalomaniaAug 22 22:46
schestowitzAnd he's no developer *LOL*Aug 22 22:47
schestowitzLiMO and ACCESS are dead and he harmed his credibility more than he could possibly imagineAug 22 22:47
sebsebsebgnufreex: if you mention Mandriva in #ubuntuAug 22 22:47
schestowitzIt's a good think he has a sex shop going as a fallback, safety netAug 22 22:47
sebsebsebgnufreex: as an alternative distroAug 22 22:48
oiaohmThere are a few Lefty people.   sebsebseb  But there is only one normally taked about here is the shill Lefty.Aug 22 22:48
schestowitzsebsebseb: Mandriva has a hard timeAug 22 22:48
sebsebsebgnufreex: a lot of people won't be happyAug 22 22:48
schestowitzI hear 2010.1 might not comeAug 22 22:48
sebsebsebschestowitz: uh thats the latest oneAug 22 22:48
sebsebsebits been out a while nowAug 22 22:48
schestowitzYeahAug 22 22:48
oiaohmThere is a developer that goes by the name Lefty as well does work on KDE.Aug 22 22:48
gnufreexsebsebseb: So... what Mandriva has to do with this?Aug 22 22:48
balrogschestowitz: many people are upset that OpenSolaris is more-or-less deadAug 22 22:48
oiaohmNo link to the shillAug 22 22:48
schestowitzHere is the latest: claire Newman <>Aug 22 22:48
schestowitzoopsAug 22 22:48
oiaohmAnd never talks publicty.Aug 22 22:48
sebsebsebgnufreex: oh  I kind of went off the topicAug 22 22:49
schestowitz 22 22:49
balrogand of course, all the stuff oracle is doing with javaAug 22 22:49
sebsebsebgnufreex: seems quite a lot of people in the Ubuntu community, want like everyone to think that,  Ubuntu is the distro!Aug 22 22:49
sebsebsebgnufreex: Get what I mean,sure you doAug 22 22:49
oiaohmoracle might be right for the long term of java to have done what they have done.  balrogAug 22 22:49
sebsebsebor  as someone else would say, and these aren't my words,  The One True DistroAug 22 22:49
oiaohmWhat google was doing to java was not right either.Aug 22 22:49
balrogoiaohm: how so?Aug 22 22:49
balrogthey didn't use one bit of oracle code, did they?Aug 22 22:49
balrogthey completely rewrote the VMAug 22 22:50
*sebsebseb is waiting for the 2nd of SeptemberAug 22 22:50
gnufreexsebsebseb: I get what you mean, but I don't like distros who try to make such culture... as ubunut is doing. They are shooting into their foot.Aug 22 22:50
balrogor is it that you don't like Apache license?Aug 22 22:50
sebsebsebor a bit before the 2nd of SeptemberAug 22 22:50
balrogwhat's supposed to take place then?Aug 22 22:50
sebsebsebbalrog: Ubuntu 10.10  BetaAug 22 22:50
sebsebsebbalrog: that will give me a nice idea, if 10.10 will suck or not :DAug 22 22:51
oiaohmProblem is the copy right of the Java specs has a binding clause that prevents you from building something like Android.Aug 22 22:51
balrogoiaohm: Google didn't use the Java code from Sun/OracleAug 22 22:51
gnufreexsebsebseb: I can use any distro, all are same to me. But I won't support company like canonical or Novell.Aug 22 22:51
sebsebsebbalrog: so far it seems, that yes it will suck on the desktop, but be better on the netbook since Unity, which I haven't tried yetAug 22 22:51
balrogthey created their own implementation which does a lot of things differentlyAug 22 22:51
sebsebsebgnufreex: Yeah why not?Aug 22 22:51
oiaohmAlso x sun staff have worked on Google implementation.   gnufreexAug 22 22:51
balrogoiaohm: citeAug 22 22:51
oiaohmThat were bound by the Java spec agreement.Aug 22 22:52
sebsebsebanyway if anyone is interested,  check out Jono's latest ustream videoAug 22 22:52
sebsebsebI asked some interesting questions thereAug 22 22:52
oiaohmThe lead of android is X sun.   balrogAug 22 22:52
balrogis he also the lead of Dalvik?Aug 22 22:52
balrogandroid has tons of non-java-related codeAug 22 22:52
oiaohmAt the moment yes.  balrogAug 22 22:52
oiaohmYes its a major stuff up.Aug 22 22:52
oiaohmEven if Dalvik is a clean implementation other wise.  That mistake is enough to taint it.Aug 22 22:53
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] Would someone protest building a Protestant church near a KKK lynching site in !NYC? If not, why are ppl protesting Mosque near Ground Zero?Aug 22 22:53
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] If you're a politician named "Richard Armey" and you promote policies that screw over the poor, why would you want to use nickname "Dick"?Aug 22 22:53
sebsebsebgnufreex: Don't want to support a company such as Canonical or Novell why exactly?Aug 22 22:53
gnufreexsebsebseb: I won't support them because they are doing against free softwareAug 22 22:53
gnufreexCanonical is pishing MonoAug 22 22:53
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sebsebsebpishing?  you meant to put pushing?Aug 22 22:54
sebsebsebwell quite a lot of distros have F-Spot in the default install for exampleAug 22 22:54
gnufreexYes. Typo.They are leting linsux people advertise agaisnt their user base.Aug 22 22:54
sebsebsebgnufreex: Canonical is a produt, this is only the start,  Ubuntu is about making money for CanonicalAug 22 22:54
gnufreexThey are letting Mac fanboys be an adminAug 22 22:55
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[slashdot] Iran Unveils Its First UAV Bomber 22 22:55
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balrogbbiabAug 22 22:55
sebsebseband the way they  want to make money is by Ubuntu going more main streameAug 22 22:55
sebsebseband it seems more money making services will go into the distro, and I asked a question to Jono in his latest ustream, if 8 money makeing services would be to much, because then it would be like propritary softwareAug 22 22:55
sebsebseband he wa like  no, whats wrong with making moneyAug 22 22:55
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] Valve Brushes Off Steam For #Linux Rumors, Says It Ain’t Happening steamin' pile of Valve :-)Aug 22 22:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Valve Brushes Off Steam For Linux Rumors, Says It Aint Happening [Valve Says They Aren't Currently Working On a Linux Version of Steam] » TFTS  Technology, Gadgets & Curiosities  .::. Size~: 33.57 KBAug 22 22:56
sebsebsebI guess making money is ok, depending on how its done,  but the way Canoncial are trying to do it when it comes to consumers, really does suck, so farAug 22 22:56
gnufreexsebsebseb: So, if they let Linsux people demonize Ubuntu and free softwre, they will make more money of what? How they can make more money if shills turn their users against them?Aug 22 22:56
schestowitzshills?Aug 22 22:56
oiaohmAlso Oracle has to put down foot on subsetting java specs because vmware and salesforce are also up to the same thing balrogAug 22 22:56
schestowitzAt Canonical?Aug 22 22:56
oiaohmInside a few years if nothing is done there might not be a real java standard anymore if nothing is done.Aug 22 22:57
schestowitzI guess shills to Canonical is what they label #neckbeardAug 22 22:57
sebsebsebgnufreex: What do you mean exactly?Aug 22 22:58
schestowitzIs there a relation between Canonical and OMG!Ubuntu!Aug 22 22:58
gnufreex 22 22:58
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sebsebsebschestowitz: OMGUbuntu is unofficalAug 22 22:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: howeverAug 22 22:58
gnufreexI meant Microosft shills, or Apple shills.Aug 22 22:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: HumphreyBC  is now a community member and at the UDS meet Jono and suchAug 22 22:58
sebsebsebschestowitz: and someone asked a question in Jono's latest ustream, about  the humprheybc incident as well,  which has a good reply from JonoAug 22 22:59
oiaohmFunny enough sebsebseb anyone else using the Ubuntu name without approval has got there asses sued off by CanonicalAug 22 22:59
oiaohmYes OMGUbuntu gets left alone.Aug 22 22:59
schestowitzNoAug 22 22:59
schestowitzJust nastygramsAug 22 22:59
_GoblinWhatever happened about Ubuntu Satanic Edition...was it merely a boycott from Distrowatch?Aug 22 22:59
sebsebseboiaohm: what theres thats unofficalAug 22 23:00
schestowitz_Goblin: some Brit made itAug 22 23:00
sebsebsebOmgUubuntu is a fan boy and girl site,  it woudn't make sense for Canonical to give it a hard timeAug 22 23:00
schestowitzCanonical sent him a nastygramAug 22 23:00
schestowitzHe made noise about itAug 22 23:00
schestowitzThen jono played "good cop"Aug 22 23:00
schestowitzAnd they let it beAug 22 23:00
schestowitzStill ostracisedAug 22 23:00
sebsebsebOMGUbuntu helps hype up Ubuntu, and Ubuntu hype =  good thing for CanoncialAug 22 23:01
sebsebsebbasicalleyAug 22 23:01
schestowitz+1Aug 22 23:01
oiaohmDistrowatch was requested to delist  Satanic EditionAug 22 23:01
schestowitzFor Linux too, to an extentAug 22 23:01
schestowitzThey took an insultAug 22 23:01
schestowitz"OMG Ubuntu!!! LOL"Aug 22 23:01
sebsebseb:)  I got a +1 from schestowitzAug 22 23:01
schestowitzTurned it into a respectable site nameAug 22 23:01
schestowitzReversalAug 22 23:01
schestowitzOr hijack of phrasesAug 22 23:01
oiaohmYes Canonical sent nastygrams to distrowatch about Satanic Edition as well.Aug 22 23:01
schestowitzMicrosoft does this a lotAug 22 23:01
schestowitz"Plugfest", "shared source", "It was my idea"...Aug 22 23:02
schestowitzoiaohm: did they?? For shameAug 22 23:02
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sebsebsebschestowitz: yeah that +1 was at me, I assumeAug 22 23:02
sebsebsebThistleWeb: good news for you maybe,  DeamonFC has been banned from the channel, for Ubuntu trolling, from his Windows computerAug 22 23:03
-BNi/#techrights-[openbytes/@openbytes] Watching the IT Crowd..Moss finds out a bomb disposal robot is running off Vista and says: "Aaahh we are all going to die" - Great stuff.Aug 22 23:03
gnufreexFrom hiw WCAug 22 23:03
gnufreexfrom his WCAug 22 23:03
gnufreexWindows ComputerAug 22 23:03
ThistleWebyou'll forgive me if I don't hold my breatheAug 22 23:03
sebsebsebThistleWeb: uhmm?Aug 22 23:04
ThistleWebI mean I fully expect to see him here in a few days, business as usualtAug 22 23:04
sebsebsebschestowitz: ^Aug 22 23:05
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] @jonobacon is it true that Canonical sent a nastygram to distrowatch asking it to remove Satanic Edition? #ubuntuAug 22 23:06
ThistleWebI've manually joined here tonight, I've not decided whether to add it to the autojoin listAug 22 23:06
sebsebsebschestowitz: Anyway so you were saying OMGUbuntu is good for Linux to an extent as well?   well yeah I guess so, it will hep with new users a bit, and some will move on to other distros,  but certain things they cover will be for other distros as well, and not just UbuntuAug 22 23:06
sebsebseb:)Aug 22 23:06
schestowitzEarlier we talked about Ubuntu Forums (UF)Aug 22 23:06
schestowitzAnd how it got hijacked -- like C.O.L.A. -- by anti-Linux peopleAug 22 23:06
schestowitzWe need to be careful of it happening hereAug 22 23:06
schestowitzWe banned the Lins*** people many times here last yearAug 22 23:07
schestowitzThey came in large group to the channels and infiltrated with anti-Linux fodderAug 22 23:07
schestowitzsebsebseb: problem is...Aug 22 23:07
schestowitzOMG!Ubuntu! takes Linux stuff and labels it "Ubuntu"Aug 22 23:08
schestowitzThis annoys many peopleAug 22 23:08
schestowitzSame with GNOMEAug 22 23:08
schestowitzxchat as a "Ubuntu program" for exampleAug 22 23:08
oiaohmGNOME is very split internally.Aug 22 23:08
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well this is meant to be a sort of new start by the sounds of it,  I guess this channel will be people expressing their opinoins and such though like before.  This is tech stuff we aren't all going to agree with each other about everything.Aug 22 23:08
oiaohmAll around the mono issue.Aug 22 23:08
ThistleWebwe'll seeAug 22 23:08
schestowitzIt reinforces the notion that only Ubuntu counts as a Linux for desktopAug 22 23:08
schestowitzYou google '<program>' and then think it requires UbuntuAug 22 23:09
oiaohmThere are also some in the Open Soruce world who do more harm than good.Aug 22 23:10
sebsebsebThistleWeb: and as far as I know techrights, is meant to be about discussing opensource/freesoftware issues and such, be that,  Mono,  software patents,  or what,  company name goes here, is doing.Aug 22 23:11
oiaohmTake the lead of pulseaudio.   Has demard Wine provide a driver for pulseaudio instead of working with wine to fixup there alsa layer.Aug 22 23:11
gnufreexoiaohm: Who does more harm that good?Aug 22 23:11
gnufreexoiaohm: That is line which Linsuxers are using to alienate so called fanboys.Aug 22 23:12
gnufreexoiaohm: Only problem is that their definition of fanboy is very wideAug 22 23:12
sebsebsebThistleWeb: and yeah DeamonFC  and people like that,  do say certain things that are a bit extrame, that some of us aren't that keen on, to be honest,  but looks like people like that are more  likely to be banned now.Aug 22 23:12
gnufreexIt inclues everyone who doesn't outright hate everything Free softwreAug 22 23:12
oiaohmThe problem is some people are not effective team players gnufreexAug 22 23:12
balrogI strongly support the practice of banning people for some time and then lifting the banAug 22 23:13
oiaohmKon with the BFS sheduler is like that aa well.Aug 22 23:13
ThistleWebsebsebseb: this is a case of "we'll see", but as I said, I expect he'll be back doing his thang in no timeAug 22 23:13
-BNi/#techrights-[openbytes/@openbytes] Wine 1.3.1 released! !linux !fossAug 22 23:13
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balrogand only perma-banning if they keep breaking rulesAug 22 23:13
sebsebsebon the subject of rules, should be more clear, a link in the topic, for exampleAug 22 23:13
oiaohmThing is the ones that do harm normally eventionally get pushed to the side.  In the open source world.   Places like linuxsux don't want to cover that.Aug 22 23:14
gnufreexoiaohm: Kon Colivas' problem is not that he is not team player. Problem is that he plays on different team. mingo plays for servers (as mayority of devs) while Con played for desktop.Aug 22 23:15
sebsebsebI read an aritcle on zdnet  the other day/night  about how Ubuntu wasn't really for someone, but could beAug 22 23:15
_Goblinlol....this is good....Aug 22 23:15
sebsebseband it had a right trollAug 22 23:15
sebsebsebin the commentsAug 22 23:15
sebsebsebloads of comments, because of this troll,  not read them all as a resultAug 22 23:15
_GoblinTweet from the MVP program: "Thank you MVPs for all you do in the community!"Aug 22 23:15
_Goblinto which Andre Da Costa replies:Aug 22 23:15
sebsebsebmay go back to that, anyway some of hte ignorance and such, make the troll comments or parts of them,  quite funny in a wayAug 22 23:15
_Goblin"You are welcome, it comes natural :)"Aug 22 23:16
oiaohmgnufreex: yet the Linux kernel lead sheduler maker wanted to focus on fixing up the locking mess to get a true measure of what was going on.Aug 22 23:16
sebsebsebmade  the, above.   Anyway thats part of opensource/freesoftware as well, trolls!Aug 22 23:16
_GoblinIt certainly does Andre, It certainly does.Aug 22 23:16
oiaohmSo did the rest of the core team gnufreexAug 22 23:16
oiaohmThe big dispute broke out over if the problem was sheduler alone.  gnufreex.   Before changing sheduler again a lot wanted to know.Aug 22 23:17
sebsebsebThistleWeb: how did you find out about  #boycottnovell by the way?   I found out  since some guy had been to it,  and  something about trolls in the channel basically, and I join, and it was alright :)Aug 22 23:17
-BNi/#techrights-[osamak/@osamak] @bkuhn I agree, but I think the really issue here is that neither Al-Qaeda nor anyone else has been proven to attack the US on 9/11.Aug 22 23:18
ThistleWebI cant remember but I did read the blog for ages before I thought to check out the ircAug 22 23:18
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oiaohmCurrently there are 3 other competitioners to BFS for the new sheduler.  Difference is the three competitors scale from hard-realtime threw to full blown server operations without any sign of issues.  gnufreexAug 22 23:18
sebsebsebThistleWeb: and before going to  the channel,  I had read some stuff on boycottnovell site I guess, since Linux TodayAug 22 23:18
ThistleWebsebsebseb: remeber the 2 ops who took exception to the number of mint users claim?Aug 22 23:19
gnufreexoiaohm: I don't get what you are saying... I am not exactly 100% up to date on that topic.Aug 22 23:19
oiaohmNone of them could complete for a place in the mainline kernel when BFS first was pushed due to BKL mess.  gnufreex They were around the complete time in Real-time sub trees.Aug 22 23:20
sebsebsebThistleWeb: uh what are you refering to?Aug 22 23:20
ThistleWebthe way I look at "many" users, is you can rule out those who come in for a one off to get help with an issue, I'm talking about the regulars in the mint channelAug 22 23:20
ThistleWeband how many of them run mint as their main osAug 22 23:20
oiaohmIe there was a reason why scheduler lead was focusing on fixing up the BKL.  gnufreexAug 22 23:20
gnufreexoiaohm: Do you have link to some articles about those schedulers. I know about CFS, BFS, and one other that I forgot the name.Aug 22 23:20
ThistleWebabout maybe 30 regulars in those channels, with maybe 20 on at onceAug 22 23:21
sebsebsebThistleWeb: uhmm  lets take #ubuntu  always a lot of people in there, but most never type in there, and most probably aren't really Ubuntu usersAug 22 23:21
sebsebsebThistleWeb: they use other distros, or just keep an eye on Ubuntu at times, thinking about maybe useing itAug 22 23:21
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I guessAug 22 23:21
ThistleWebthe 2 ops who took exception, niether run mint as their main OSAug 22 23:21
ThistleWebone uses arch, one uses bsdAug 22 23:21
sebsebsebThistleWeb: are you on about something I aid in the Mint channel?Aug 22 23:21
ThistleWebyesAug 22 23:21
ThistleWebas I said, I'm one of the few regulars in the mint channel who actually runs mint as their main osAug 22 23:22
sebsebsebThistleWeb: one of the ops, didn't seem that nice at all, but hey I am used to that kind of thing, since #ubuntuAug 22 23:22
schestowitzWho, clem?Aug 22 23:22
oiaohm is the modern rework of one from the real-time side.  gnufreexAug 22 23:22
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sebsebsebschestowitz: noAug 22 23:22
schestowitz " I'm sure someone has probably complained about FreeBSD to distrowatch too (their creepy devil mascot)....."Aug 22 23:22
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ThistleWebthe ops are cool, but as I said, they stay very quiet on the whole main OS thing because they dont run mintAug 22 23:23
schestowitzOne contributor died recentlyAug 22 23:23
sebsebsebschestowitz: no, no,  clem is a developer, and working on  the Debian based version of MInt, clem seemed fineAug 22 23:23
ThistleWebyepAug 22 23:23
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] @osamak, I agree we can never confirm affiliations of dead suicide bombers, of course,but AFAIK Al-Qaeda leadership did actively take creditAug 22 23:23
gnufreexoiaohm: That was one that I forgot the name. ThanksAug 22 23:23
ThistleWebI did notice both justin and suhana taking issue with your claim, which is my claimAug 22 23:23
ThistleWebsuhana uses bsdAug 22 23:23
ThistleWebshe has VMs of mintAug 22 23:23
ThistleWebbut she uses bsdAug 22 23:24
balrogThistleWeb: what's wrong with using bsd....?Aug 22 23:24
ThistleWebjustin uses arch, and has vms of mintAug 22 23:24
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I can't remember what I said exactlyAug 22 23:24
sebsebsebThistleWeb: well I do have logs, but remind me/Aug 22 23:24
ThistleWebbalrog: nothing, but these are mint channel opsAug 22 23:24
ThistleWebregulars in the mint channel, and most of them run other OS's not mintAug 22 23:24
ThistleWebthe concept of dogfooding is not strong thereAug 22 23:24
balrogThistleWeb: VMs make it easy to developAug 22 23:24
balrogif something breaks, you can easily go backAug 22 23:25
balrogand stuffAug 22 23:25
ThistleWebyet they dont like it being pointed outAug 22 23:25
sebsebsebThistleWeb: dogfooding, you mean using a product you support?Aug 22 23:25
ThistleWebyesAug 22 23:25
balrogI'd do that if I was developing an OSAug 22 23:25
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I like that about Mint, it did suprise me thoughAug 22 23:25
sebsebsebhowever yeah I don't really want to use Ubuntu anymore personalleyAug 22 23:25
oiaohmTime of BFS push gnufreex the old name for the same class of thing was AQuoSAAug 22 23:25
sebsebseb,but if they improve it enough againAug 22 23:25
ThistleWebI'd be cool if they were upfront, but the way they jumped on you for a claim that's very ture showed me otherwiseAug 22 23:25
sebsebsebyeah "if"Aug 22 23:25
sebsebsebI expect I might get pretty active in #ubuntu againAug 22 23:26
sebsebsebin the mean time,  well I got a life to try and sort out a bit, and helping out a lot in #ubuntu doesn't help with that anywayAug 22 23:26
ThistleWebI didnt see at any time suhana mention she runs bsd, while being holier than thou in mints defenseAug 22 23:26
ThistleWebjustin only mentioned he runs arch after some provokingAug 22 23:26
sebsebsebThistleWeb: Suhana didn't seem that nice to me, but  I guess thats  since she is one of these pretty smart people and uhAug 22 23:26
ThistleWebshe is VERY smart, and she's fine tooAug 22 23:27
gnufreexoiaohm: But what is third competitor to BFS? IRMOS, CFS.... you said there is three.Aug 22 23:27
ThistleWebas I said, it's a dirty little secret they'd rather not mentionAug 22 23:27
oiaohmI am not counting gnufreexAug 22 23:27
oiaohmoppsAug 22 23:27
sebsebsebThistleWeb: and personalley I don't  get on that well with ceratin girls/women,  theres like a particular type, but I am not sure the name of itAug 22 23:27
oiaohmCFS gnufreexAug 22 23:28
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I mean online when I say thatAug 22 23:28
oiaohmThere are 3 in the real-time trees that BFS has not gone head to head with yet.   gnufreexAug 22 23:28
-BNi/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Book documents Bush forces atrocity 22 23:28
oiaohmThat have always been there.Aug 22 23:28
ThistleWebthe ops are fine for the most part, justin and suhana are great, I just got a tad annoyed at them trying to present an image that's not trueAug 22 23:28
gnufreexoiaohm: Got it.Aug 22 23:28
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I like boycottnovell/techrights, can express opinions,  they might be quite wrong at times, but probably won't get challenged for itAug 22 23:29
sebsebsebThistleWeb: where as with Mint channels,  say the wrong type of stuff, and it seems, going to have some sort of issueAug 22 23:29
oiaohmHeck IRMOS is not really that new.  Its really interfacing ontop of Linux kernel 2 already existing mainline realtime systems.  gnufreexAug 22 23:29
ThistleWebthey go very quiet at the whole "whats your main OS" because they know most of them arent running mint and it wouldnt look good to have mostly arch usersAug 22 23:29
oiaohmThat were in the kernel at the time of BFS but basically usless due to BKL.  gnufreexAug 22 23:29
ThistleWebthey have a family language policyAug 22 23:30
sebsebsebThistleWeb: oh right thats what I asked, ah yesAug 22 23:30
sebsebsebThistleWeb: or something like thatAug 22 23:30
sebsebsebThistleWeb: family langauge policy?Aug 22 23:30
ThistleWebno swearingAug 22 23:30
sebsebsebThistleWeb: right well,  I didn't  swear there :)Aug 22 23:30
sebsebsebalso Ubuntu channels have thatAug 22 23:30
sebsebsebhave that, offical channelsAug 22 23:30
ThistleWebat times you did come across as trolling btwAug 22 23:30
oiaohmIe stuff was already in the kernel that should have kicked CFS and BFS ass.  But due to issues with locking counld not gnufreex.  People forget the scheduler lead was not only in charge of CFS but also in charage of the in kernel realtime support.Aug 22 23:31
sebsebsebheh well so did I at times, when I  started with boycottnovell IRC :DAug 22 23:31
sebsebsebdepends on the channelAug 22 23:31
sebsebsebwhat opions can express, without people getting all stupid about itAug 22 23:31
sebsebseband what was saidAug 22 23:31
ThistleWebmore and more it feels that people are there to hang out with freinds they made while using mint, but have switched distros nowAug 22 23:31
sebsebsebhas been seen as a bit of a troll  by #ubuntu ops, but also omgubuntu IRC people, ah wellAug 22 23:32
sebsebsebin the past I meanAug 22 23:32
gnufreexoiaohm: BKL is dead in .36 ?Aug 22 23:32
sebsebsebThistleWeb: thing with online isAug 22 23:32
gnufreexoiaohm: last piece removed?Aug 22 23:32
sebsebsebThistleWeb: most of us don't really know who we are talking toAug 22 23:32
sebsebseband so you won't know if someone hasAug 22 23:32
oiaohmBKL has been broken down.  gnufreexAug 22 23:33
oiaohmCompletely in .36Aug 22 23:33
sebsebsebslight Aspergers Syndrome for example, which is the case for me,  also this is something that  people who don't really have it, wil use as an excuse if in  trouble with ops and uhAug 22 23:33
ThistleWebcompared to fedora it's pathetic, fedora have always been strong in dogfoodingAug 22 23:33
-BNi/#techrights-[osamak/@osamak] @bkuhn AFAICR, Bin Ladn said "we will do something similar to 9/11" (which they can never do!), but I don't think he has ever admitted it.Aug 22 23:33
-BNi/#techrights-[osamak/@osamak] !identica: DB_DataObject Error: Connect failed, turn on debugging to 5 see why. (cc: @support)Aug 22 23:33
oiaohmBut there are now segments with locks where the locks have to be looked at to see if they can be removed completely.  gnufreexAug 22 23:33
oiaohmEvery lock is a issue to running a real-time system.  gnufreexAug 22 23:33
ThistleWebbut anyway, just thought I'd mention how you were rickrolled in there by non-mint usersAug 22 23:33
sebsebsebcan make great online friends,  when its just textAug 22 23:33
sebsebseb,but can also  well not get on with peopleAug 22 23:34
sebsebsebThistleWeb: what do you mean rickrolled?Aug 22 23:34
oiaohmBasically BKL removal is the first in a list of operations to prep Linux for hard real-time support. gnufreexAug 22 23:34
gnufreexoiaohm: There are goint to be some driver rewrites, since some drivers are dependent on some locks.Aug 22 23:34
ThistleWebthey managed to leave you thinking they'd answeredAug 22 23:35
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] GNU/Linux Gaming on Triple-Head: 0 A.D Video Nice demonstration for #GNU #Linux gamers #0adAug 22 23:35
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oiaohmWhere able.  gnufreexAug 22 23:35
oiaohmSome locks in drivers will never be removalable.  gnufreexAug 22 23:35
ThistleWebanyhoo, moving onAug 22 23:35
sebsebsebThistleWeb: anyway I have slight learning difficulties, ceratin words I don't understand the meaing of as a result.  This also means that it would be pretty stupid if I was  going to start trying to have  a debate, with smart BSD and what not type of people.  Since I would lose quite easilley.  Not much point arguing/debating properly with people who are probably smarter than me..Aug 22 23:35
oiaohmBasically after 2.6.36 we enter stage 2 of the lock clean up process.  gnufreexAug 22 23:35
sebsebsebThistleWeb: as for Mint channels, I would have been back there already,  its justAug 22 23:36
ThistleWebsuhana is very smart, she knows an incredible amount of stuffAug 22 23:36
oiaohmLot simpler process because the locks are issolated to per driver/subsystem.  gnufreexAug 22 23:36
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I don't really want to be doing any   Linux distro IRC tech support at the momentAug 22 23:36
oiaohmSo hopefully should complete inside next 2 to 3 releases.  gnufreexAug 22 23:36
sebsebsebThistleWeb: oh I sure I could hang out in the chat channel, and try and get to know people from the community a bitAug 22 23:37
oiaohmThen we will see real-time start really pushing to mainline there shedulers.   And alot of them will closed the door for BFS for ever.  gnufreexAug 22 23:37
ThistleWebI doubt I'm gonna be autojoining the mint channels for much longerAug 22 23:37
sebsebsebOh how come?Aug 22 23:37
ThistleWebI suppose I could hang around as the token mint user huh?Aug 22 23:38
sebsebsebanyway I like how Mint is a  first stepping stone distro for many people, if only Ubuntu was like that :DAug 22 23:38
-BNi/#techrights-[osamak/@osamak] آر تي @bkuhn Would someone protest building a Protestant church near a KKK lynching site in !NYC? If not, why are ppl protesting Mosque ...Aug 22 23:38
sebsebsebWhat do you mean the token Mint user?Aug 22 23:38
ThistleWebthe only regular who uses mintAug 22 23:38
ThistleWebI dont think I'm the only one, but I'm a minorityAug 22 23:38
sebsebsebThistleWeb: yeah your on quite a noob distro :D,  but  I am not going to insult you for it :)    don't take this all seriously/offensive  I am just sayingAug 22 23:39
sebsebsebanyway Ubuntu was seen as a major noobs distroAug 22 23:39
sebsebseband still isAug 22 23:39
ThistleWebI knowAug 22 23:39
sebsebseband  I used it rather happiley,  second release in 2005 to  9.04Aug 22 23:39
oiaohmHeck gnufreex some of the real-time guys are pushing now and are working on upgrading there shedulers like IRMOS to support general and hard-realtime one sheduler.Aug 22 23:39
sebsebsebwell something really did get at me in 9.04, and then it went uh after thatAug 22 23:39
*sebsebseb likes helping noobs with Desktop Linux, would help if it was with a version of a distro that I like quite a lot, sadly this is no longer the case for UbuntuAug 22 23:40
*sebsebseb is hopeing that Ubuntu using Gnome 3 will make Ubuntu properly good againAug 22 23:40
sebsebsebor maybe that distro should just hopefuly die soon, so some other distro can become number one instead, such as maybe Fedora,  or  maybe the Mint version they are working on that will be based on Debian.Aug 22 23:41
sebsebsebafter all according to oiaohm  distro deaths are good, and I think I am starting to see that now as wellAug 22 23:41
sebsebsebThistleWeb: I hope the next version of Mint has a nice theme, and I know I can change them, but I like good defaults :)Aug 22 23:43
sebsebsebthe Mint theme is to green for my likeingAug 22 23:43
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] @osamak,there're sources that indicate Al-Qaeda took public credit for 2001-09-11 attacks,but it's true Bin Laden himself didn't take creditAug 22 23:43
schestowitz 22 23:43
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*sebsebseb waits for 2011, Gnome 3 and such, Desktop Linux is a bit sucky at the moment really!Aug 22 23:44
sebsebsebhrm I typed all that ^ and no one replied to it, ah wellAug 22 23:46
_Goblinsorry mate...I was doing something elseAug 22 23:47
_Goblinjust noticedAug 22 23:47
-BNi/#techrights-[bkuhn/@bkuhn] @osamak, but anyway, the bigger & #disturbing problem we've here in USA is that far too many ppl associate Islam w/ terrorism irrationally.Aug 22 23:48
sebsebsebThistleWeb: So will you still be using Mint soon?Aug 22 23:49
ThistleWebyeah I'm perfectly happy with mintAug 22 23:49
sebsebsebThistleWeb: If you like it, sure carry on using it, so what if your the  only regular in the channel who actsualley uses it a lotAug 22 23:49
ThistleWebI'm just increasingly out of sync with the mint channelsAug 22 23:49
sebsebsebThistleWeb: actsauly if you were locked into Mint,  I mean like only distro you had tried,  I would be like try  Mandriva or PC Linux OS or something,  but I assume you have already tried othersAug 22 23:50
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sebsebsebThistleWeb: out of sync, as in not really following whats going on there?Aug 22 23:50
ThistleWebI feel more and more the odd one out there, thats allAug 22 23:52
-BNtwitter/#techrights-[schestowitz] Links 22/8/2010: #Valve Disappoints, More Tablets With #Android #techrightsAug 22 23:52
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sebsebsebTechrightsBot-tr: so would I be, if I become a regular helper in #ubuntu againAug 22 23:52
sebsebsebTechrightsBot-tr: since I would be like the only one I guess, who wasn't useing Ubuntu or Debian, or a distro based on itAug 22 23:52
-BNi/#techrights-[schestowitz/@schestowitz] Links 22/8/2010: #Valve Disappoints, More Tablets With #Android !techrightsAug 22 23:53
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sebsebsebI think Mandrifa for me for now, and  maybe Fedora next year.Aug 22 23:53
_GoblinSabayon...its great!Aug 22 23:53
sebsebsebTechrightsBot-tr: I like using something that isn't that popualrAug 22 23:54
sebsebsebFedora like UbuntuAug 22 23:54
sebsebsebgets hyped up I guess to an extentAug 22 23:54
sebsebseb_Goblin: the black theme puts me offAug 22 23:54
sebsebsebthe PC Linux OS theme, puts me off that distro as wellAug 22 23:54
sebsebsebyes I can change a theme, but  for me the theme is the look of the distro, the real proper true lookAug 22 23:54
sebsebseband yes looks matter for people like meAug 22 23:54
_Goblinfair enoughAug 22 23:55
sebsebsebanyway I am glad that they are sorting out the window borders in Ubuntu 10.10Aug 22 23:55
sebsebsebputting back a square for maximize and  the line for minimize, by defaultAug 22 23:55
sebsebsebthey had up and down arrows  instead for those in 10.04Aug 22 23:55
sebsebsebthe window borders in 10.04 I found really ugly,  with both of their new theemsAug 22 23:56
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sebsebseblets do a little subject change,  are Canonical bad for open source?  schestowitz and oiaohm  and such?   apparently they have an open source section,  or maybe thats  just the one Sun hadAug 22 23:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: well I guess patent stuff, and the sueing Google, makes Oracle seem hrm at the momentAug 22 23:59
sebsebseband the death of OpenSolaris of courseAug 22 23:59
sebsebseb,but  that doesn't nessariley mean that they are really bad for opensource/freesoftwareAug 22 23:59

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