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| Tekk_ | hello everyone o/ | Sep 24 13:04 |
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| Tekk_ | gnufreex: hi | Sep 24 13:37 |
| gnufreex | hi | Sep 24 13:37 |
| Tekk_ | wow, this slashem game is doing well O.o | Sep 24 13:42 |
| gnufreex | What slashem game? | Sep 24 13:42 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: the one I'm playin | Sep 24 13:42 |
| Tekk_ | g | Sep 24 13:43 |
| Tekk_ | completely blowing through the gnome caverns, even with my pet | Sep 24 13:43 |
| gnufreex | It works on GNU/Linux? | Sep 24 13:43 |
| Tekk_ | yeah | Sep 24 13:44 |
| Tekk_ | sudo apt-get install slashem | Sep 24 13:44 |
| Tekk_ | or in my case telnet slashem.crash-override.net | Sep 24 13:44 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: if you do that last one and hit w you can watch me | Sep 24 13:45 |
| gnufreex | this is terminal game? | Sep 24 13:46 |
| Tekk_ | yes | Sep 24 13:48 |
| Tekk_ | you can get slashem-x11 or slashem-qt if you want graphical | Sep 24 13:48 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: this is basically extended nethack ;) | Sep 24 13:49 |
| gnufreex | I don't get this game | Sep 24 13:51 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: ever tried nethack? | Sep 24 13:53 |
| gnufreex | No | Sep 24 13:54 |
| gnufreex | Tekk_ I don't play games very much. | Sep 24 13:54 |
| Tekk_ | http://www.nethack.org/v343/Guidebook.html | Sep 24 13:55 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: NetHack 3.4.3: Guidebook for NetHack 3.4 .::. Size~: 121.34 KB | Sep 24 13:55 |
| gnufreex | Thanks... But I don't think I have time for that :-) Tekk_ | Sep 24 13:55 |
| Tekk_ | ah, okay | Sep 24 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | gnufreex: http://euobserver.com/9/30856 | Sep 24 14:12 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: EUobserver / [Comment] Has the Pirate Party boat sunk? .::. Size~: 28.06 KB | Sep 24 14:12 |
| schestowitz | by "FLORIAN MUELLER" | Sep 24 14:12 |
| schestowitz | He lobbies against sharing | Sep 24 14:13 |
| gnufreex | He is propriatary zealot. I am just reading his another post on his blog: http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2010/09/has-pirate-party-boat-sunk-ip-skeptical.html | Sep 24 14:14 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: FOSS Patents: Has the Pirate Party boat sunk? IP-skeptical platform decimated in Swedish election .::. Size~: 56.95 KB | Sep 24 14:14 |
| gnufreex | " | Sep 24 14:15 |
| gnufreex | I can say with a clear conscience that I haven't done any illegal copying, let alone "cracking", ever since the Commodore 64 days. I threw away those floppy disk boxes at some point. Every piece of software I ever used on a PC was properly purchased, or it was (of course) open source. I'm so careful that I only install a second copy of a program on a portable computer if the end user license agreement (EULA) permits it. | Sep 24 14:15 |
| gnufreex | This isn't only the right thing to do, and it's safe not only in a legal sense. It's also one of the reasons for which I've never been hit by a computer virus. | Sep 24 14:15 |
| gnufreex | " | Sep 24 14:15 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FFII/statuses/25150954296 " FFII: #lobbyist @fosspatents says he used to be a #cracker and software #pirat http://euobserver.com/9/30856 " | Sep 24 14:15 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FFII e.V.: #lobbyist @fosspatents say ... .::. Size~: 12.67 KB | Sep 24 14:15 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: EUobserver / [Comment] Has the Pirate Party boat sunk? .::. Size~: 25.97 KB | Sep 24 14:15 |
| schestowitz | "hit by a computer virus." | Sep 24 14:16 |
| schestowitz | He won't say Windows virus | Sep 24 14:16 |
| gnufreex | He don't even use anything other than Windows. | Sep 24 14:16 |
| schestowitz | Cause he only ever used Windows | Sep 24 14:16 |
| schestowitz | and Linux _on servers_ in some company (someone else must have installed it) | Sep 24 14:16 |
| MinceR | i wonder what had to happen to make them move servers to gnu/linux | Sep 24 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Florian is an apt name | Sep 24 14:17 |
| MinceR | like m$ did with akamai | Sep 24 14:17 |
| gnufreex | He is .NET zealot, that is why Mono advocates like him. They link to his blog a lot. | Sep 24 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Heh | Sep 24 14:17 |
| schestowitz | He does that too (to them) | Sep 24 14:17 |
| Tekk_ | I like the *idea* of .NET/mon | Sep 24 14:17 |
| Tekk_ | o | Sep 24 14:17 |
| Tekk_ | but there's no reason we can't use the jvm ;P | Sep 24 14:17 |
| schestowitz | Here he is having fun with Miguel.. | Sep 24 14:18 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25182224439 | Sep 24 14:18 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: @migueldeicaza I use the " ... .::. Size~: 9.46 KB | Sep 24 14:18 |
| MinceR | there's no reason we can't use native code :> | Sep 24 14:18 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25182361037 | Sep 24 14:18 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: @migueldeicaza At times I ... .::. Size~: 9.44 KB | Sep 24 14:18 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: I can see where cross platform compatibility might be useful there | Sep 24 14:18 |
| Tekk_ | see:java applets | Sep 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25184230782 | Sep 24 14:19 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: @migueldeicaza OK got it. ... .::. Size~: 9.36 KB | Sep 24 14:19 |
| gnufreex | Tekk_ : I don't know why they didn't just port C# to JVM. That would be easier and C# is under stronger protection (ECMA and such). And it would be more competitive because it could be Embraced and Extender version | Sep 24 14:19 |
| MinceR | Tekk_: there's also Python, Parrot, etc. :> | Sep 24 14:19 |
| gnufreex | But De Icaza wan't to just serve Microsoft. | Sep 24 14:19 |
| Tekk_ | mhm | Sep 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25184452503 "That first hashtag is misguided. I've been in this industry since 1985 and did lobbying only in 2004-2007. Get up to date." | Sep 24 14:19 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: @FFII That first hashtag i ... .::. Size~: 9.34 KB | Sep 24 14:19 |
| MinceR | but even native code can take advantage of cross-platform libraries such as Qt | Sep 24 14:19 |
| schestowitz | Liar | Sep 24 14:20 |
| schestowitz | MySQL | Sep 24 14:20 |
| Tekk_ | jvm is pretty ubuquitous and understood though, along with the closest analog to C# | Sep 24 14:20 |
| schestowitz | Monty paid him | Sep 24 14:20 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: but you need to recompile for each platform | Sep 24 14:20 |
| Tekk_ | you cant just say "okay here's the jar" | Sep 24 14:20 |
| MinceR | more like c# is a close analog to java | Sep 24 14:20 |
| MinceR | Tekk_: indeed | Sep 24 14:20 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: yeah but for what I was saying the other way around makes more sense | Sep 24 14:20 |
| MinceR | or even better, c# is yet another clone of java from m$ | Sep 24 14:20 |
| Tekk_ | ah, someone else who knows about j#? :P | Sep 24 14:21 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 24 14:21 |
| MinceR | there also was m$'s own jvm, which they got sued about, iirc | Sep 24 14:21 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FFII/statuses/25194322476 "@fosspatents #Mobbyist ?" | Sep 24 14:22 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FFII e.V.: @fosspatents #Mobbyist ? .::. Size~: 12.24 KB | Sep 24 14:22 |
| gnufreex | They signed that they wont EEE java, but then they couldn't resist. | Sep 24 14:22 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: then there was jscript... | Sep 24 14:22 |
| Tekk_ | which wasnt java but still failed | Sep 24 14:22 |
| MinceR | jscript is a javascript clone or implementation though | Sep 24 14:22 |
| Tekk_ | yeah | Sep 24 14:22 |
| schestowitz | the #mobbying was later lobbying for Monty, who paid him for the work. He did not stop #mobbying in 2007. | Sep 24 14:23 |
| Tekk_ | actually, I think ms still calls it's javascript implementation jscript | Sep 24 14:23 |
| MinceR | i think so too | Sep 24 14:23 |
| Tekk_ | ah, MS. so many screwups, so little time | Sep 24 14:24 |
| Tekk_ | I can't help but wonnder how much stuff on windows actually uses .net | Sep 24 14:24 |
| MinceR | no original ideas, so desperate to copy anyone and everyone | Sep 24 14:24 |
| MinceR | currently trying to copy unix, google and java | Sep 24 14:25 |
| Tekk_ | from what I understand it's not much | Sep 24 14:25 |
| gnufreex | I think people should develop EEEd version of C#. And call it COOL (Crappt Object Oriented Language). ANd optimize it for code conversion to Java and other languages. | Sep 24 14:25 |
| gnufreex | Then, when you want to port some project from .NET, you first dumb it down to COOL. And then use converter to move it to other language. | Sep 24 14:25 |
| Tekk_ | I understand there's a time for interpreted style, there's a time for compiled. Windows devs do not | Sep 24 14:25 |
| MinceR | gnufreex: interesting idea | Sep 24 14:26 |
| gnufreex | * that should say Crappy Object Oriented Language. | Sep 24 14:26 |
| Tekk_ | oh hey, I'm making a calculator, better break out C++ and directX | Sep 24 14:26 |
| MinceR | Tekk_: what's DirectSuX doing in a calculator? :> | Sep 24 14:26 |
| Tekk_ | actually, I swear there are more mono programs for GNU/Linux etc. than .net windows programs XD | Sep 24 14:26 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: well how else are we going to have the buttons spin to show you that the calculator is calculating? | Sep 24 14:27 |
| MinceR | lol | Sep 24 14:27 |
| Tekk_ | ooh | Sep 24 14:28 |
| Tekk_ | I think we're starting to get closer to virginia | Sep 24 14:28 |
| MinceR | ? | Sep 24 14:28 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: on a trip, 3G router ftw :> | Sep 24 14:29 |
| Tekk_ | my dad just got it 2 days ago | Sep 24 14:29 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 24 14:29 |
| Tekk_ | it's only about 2x the lag of our home's wifi, which was surprising :D | Sep 24 14:30 |
| gnufreex | Back to my COOL idea. It should be subset of C#. And it should run on Mono. (I think it is obvious that I came up with this idea by thinking "what could be constructive use of Mono") | Sep 24 14:30 |
| gnufreex | And only purpose of that is to move legacy projects from .NET | Sep 24 14:30 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: so you write a language in mono to convert C# into java | Sep 24 14:30 |
| gnufreex | Yup. Tekk. | Sep 24 14:31 |
| Tekk_ | BRILLIANt | Sep 24 14:31 |
| MinceR | sounds more like ERE (Embrace, Reduce, Extinguish) :> | Sep 24 14:31 |
| Tekk_ | actually that'd be useful, then we could use the full strength loic next time the protests show up ;P | Sep 24 14:31 |
| gnufreex | MinceR: It is Embrace, Reduce, Extend, Extinguish :) | Sep 24 14:32 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 24 14:32 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: it's not extend if it's a subset :P | Sep 24 14:32 |
| gnufreex | It is damn hard to convert C# code. | Sep 24 14:32 |
| Tekk_ | pulling high latencies now | Sep 24 14:32 |
| Tekk_ | just make a wrapper library | Sep 24 14:33 |
| gnufreex | Tekk: C# to COOL is reduce. COOL to Java converter is Extend | Sep 24 14:33 |
| Tekk_ | most C# stuff seems to be java with different system calls | Sep 24 14:33 |
| gnufreex | Or "Move" | Sep 24 14:33 |
| Tekk_ | ah | Sep 24 14:33 |
| gnufreex | And Extinguish would be when you say: So long .NOT | Sep 24 14:34 |
| gnufreex | Or: So long, suckers | Sep 24 14:34 |
| Tekk_ | not system calls *isnt sure where he got that from O.o* | Sep 24 14:35 |
| Tekk_ | laggy, in no man's land | Sep 24 14:35 |
| Tekk_ | ping says 3-4 seconds | Sep 24 14:35 |
| Tekk_ | oh god, we're going down | Sep 24 14:36 |
| Tekk_ | at least signal is o.o | Sep 24 14:36 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25292720213 "#RedHat financials are an argument for software patents http://bit.ly/9YCOWr $RHT making $5B would kill $7B of innovation." http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25209235611 | Sep 24 14:36 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: #RedHat financials are an ... .::. Size~: 9.49 KB | Sep 24 14:36 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: FOSS Patents: Red Hat's financials are an argument for software patents .::. Size~: 57.13 KB | Sep 24 14:36 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: @migueldeicaza @jacksonh I ... .::. Size~: 9.36 KB | Sep 24 14:36 |
| Tekk_ | oh hold on | Sep 24 14:37 |
| Tekk_ | ping is getting closer to acceptable levels | Sep 24 14:37 |
| Tekk_ | nvn | Sep 24 14:39 |
| gnufreex | Tekk_: I didn't bother to learn C#, but I was wittnesing some attepts to convert C# projects to other languages. There lot of crazy things in C#... or so I was told. But then again, cross compiling fails offten, regardless of the language. | Sep 24 14:40 |
| Tekk_ | ooh cotton | Sep 24 14:40 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: from what I understand it's like a saner java | Sep 24 14:41 |
| Tekk_ | and all my mono using friends love it | Sep 24 14:41 |
| MinceR | duh | Sep 24 14:42 |
| MinceR | if they didn't love it they wouldn't be mono users | Sep 24 14:42 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: there are other languages in mono | Sep 24 14:42 |
| MinceR | yes, for show | Sep 24 14:42 |
| MinceR | all of them c# in drag | Sep 24 14:42 |
| Tekk_ | iron python/ruby is C# in drag? | Sep 24 14:42 |
| MinceR | "managed c++" which is nothing like c++, contorted, twisted to fit the .net model | Sep 24 14:42 |
| gnufreex | Tekk__ from what I understand, it is work of the devil. Attempt to make language for dummies, so that you can be stupid and still be a programer. Those kind of people are Microsoft's main target. | Sep 24 14:43 |
| MinceR | "vb.net" which is just c# with basic syntax | Sep 24 14:43 |
| MinceR | etc. | Sep 24 14:43 |
| MinceR | i don't know how they raped python and ruby to fit them in | Sep 24 14:43 |
| Tekk_ | then there's boo, which seems pretty interesting | Sep 24 14:43 |
| Tekk_ | someone needs to port that to the jvm sometime | Sep 24 14:43 |
| MinceR | i won't even care as long as it's .net-only | Sep 24 14:44 |
| gnufreex | All those .NET langauges should be EEEd when ported to JVM. Beat them in their own game. | Sep 24 14:44 |
| MinceR | i can't really afford to waste energy to learn something that only locks me in and makes me subject to somebody's threats | Sep 24 14:45 |
| gnufreex | MinceR: You mean .NET? | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | the biggest thing is that we need good jvm languages | Sep 24 14:46 |
| MinceR | gnufreex: for example | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | groovy is....ok I guess | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | but we don't have much choice there | Sep 24 14:46 |
| gnufreex | Tekk_: Scala is great | Sep 24 14:46 |
| MinceR | yes, we need good jvm languages | Sep 24 14:46 |
| MinceR | java is maturing but i'm not sure how far it got | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | .net you have C# managed C++ vb python ruby, etc. | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | f | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | f#* | Sep 24 14:46 |
| MinceR | f#*@% | Sep 24 14:46 |
| Tekk_ | XD | Sep 24 14:46 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSpatents/statuses/25321671254 "@sempuki1 cc @migueldeicaza Universities also spend pretty significant amounts of $ if they develop real products, not just concepts." | Sep 24 14:46 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: Twitter / FOSS Patents: @sempuki1 cc @migueldeicaz ... .::. Size~: 9.43 KB | Sep 24 14:46 |
| schestowitz | Haha | Sep 24 14:46 |
| gnufreex | tekk_: Is managed C++ in .NET standard or EEEd? | Sep 24 14:47 |
| Tekk_ | I have no idea | Sep 24 14:47 |
| Tekk_ | im not a .net/mono expert | Sep 24 14:47 |
| gnufreex | I think they bastardized it. | Sep 24 14:47 |
| gnufreex | They bastardized cm, why would they implement real C++ | Sep 24 14:47 |
| Tekk_ | oh and thanks for the odf articles sh | Sep 24 14:48 |
| Tekk_ | schestowitz: * | Sep 24 14:48 |
| Tekk_ | gnufreex: that's really all ms is good at | Sep 24 14:48 |
| Tekk_ | see: odfs, html, javascript..... | Sep 24 14:48 |
| Tekk_ | kde4 :P | Sep 24 14:48 |
| gnufreex | * i mean they bastardized inch. Microsoftian inch is shorter than standard one. | Sep 24 14:49 |
| MinceR | and the smarter version, f#*@% | Sep 24 14:49 |
| MinceR | oops | Sep 24 14:49 |
| MinceR | and the smarter version, brainf#*@% | Sep 24 14:49 |
| Tekk_ | OH | Sep 24 14:49 |
| Tekk_ | and .net has the most complete lolcode implementation iirc | Sep 24 14:49 |
| MinceR | "managed c++" superficially resembles c++, but it's full of weird, verbose shit | Sep 24 14:49 |
| Tekk_ | well, mono | Sep 24 14:49 |
| Tekk_ | can we just say .mono when referring to both? | Sep 24 14:50 |
| gnufreex | That "managed C++" runs on MSIL ? | Sep 24 14:50 |
| gnufreex | I mean does it compile to MSIL? | Sep 24 14:50 |
| MinceR | classes look different, new is replaced with gcnew, pointers/references were replaced with some strange ^ stuff, i even see stupid shit like "System::Void" | Sep 24 14:50 |
| Tekk_ | MinceR: ..... | Sep 24 14:50 |
| Tekk_ | that | Sep 24 14:50 |
| MinceR | so it's just "we'll call it 'c++" and hope it fools the suckers" | Sep 24 14:50 |
| Tekk_ | that is not C++........ | Sep 24 14:50 |
| MinceR | indeed it's not | Sep 24 14:50 |
| Tekk_ | that's | Sep 24 14:51 |
| MinceR | s/\+"/+'/ | Sep 24 14:51 |
| Tekk_ | I honestly don't know what that is | Sep 24 14:51 |
| MinceR | it's an insight into the "minds" at m$ | Sep 24 14:51 |
| Tekk_ | or, as the announcer in "raptor eats cheerleader said": 'that.......that's just wrong' | Sep 24 14:51 |
| gnufreex | C== | Sep 24 14:52 |
| Tekk_ | C== what? | Sep 24 14:52 |
| Tekk_ | C-- is what I'd suggest, if it's not taken | Sep 24 14:52 |
| MinceR | i think it is though :) | Sep 24 14:53 |
| gnufreex | I mean that M$ calls C++ is C==. Like when you forget to press SHIFT | Sep 24 14:53 |
| Tekk_ | heh | Sep 24 14:53 |
| MinceR | :D | Sep 24 14:53 |
| *Tekk_ grabs dillo to check out c-- | Sep 24 14:54 | |
| Tekk_ | O.o | Sep 24 14:55 |
| Tekk_ | dillo is apparently no more in the rpos | Sep 24 14:55 |
| MinceR | apparently c-- is intended as an intermediate language | Sep 24 14:56 |
| Tekk_ | yep, it's taken | Sep 24 14:56 |
| Tekk_ | hmm | Sep 24 14:57 |
| gnufreex | There is C-- language? | Sep 24 14:58 |
| Tekk_ | yeah | Sep 24 14:58 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 24 14:58 |
| Tekk_ | made for making compilers | Sep 24 14:58 |
| MinceR | two of them, in fact | Sep 24 14:58 |
| MinceR | according to WP | Sep 24 14:58 |
| gnufreex | I can't find anything on wikipedia | Sep 24 14:58 |
| gnufreex | It goes to C | Sep 24 14:58 |
| gnufreex | Oh | Sep 24 14:58 |
| gnufreex | here it is | Sep 24 14:59 |
| gnufreex | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-- | Sep 24 14:59 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: C-- - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 28.29 KB | Sep 24 14:59 |
| MinceR | hm, groovy is interesting | Sep 24 15:02 |
| gnufreex | Groovy developers said that they wouldn't start Groovy project if Scala was around at the time. | Sep 24 15:03 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 24 15:04 |
| gnufreex | Did someone try GNU lightning... is that proejct still alive? | Sep 24 15:06 |
| MinceR | what is it? | Sep 24 15:07 |
| gnufreex | JIT library | Sep 24 15:07 |
| Tekk_ | never heard of it | Sep 24 15:07 |
| gnufreex | http://www.gnu.org/software/lightning/ | Sep 24 15:07 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: GNU lightning - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF) .::. Size~: 11.33 KB | Sep 24 15:07 |
| gnufreex | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_lightning | Sep 24 15:07 |
| TechrightsBot | Title: GNU lightning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 33.18 KB | Sep 24 15:07 |
| MinceR | neither have i | Sep 24 15:08 |
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