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| *FurnaceBoy (~qu1j0t3@bas2-toronto10-1279468795.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Mar 06 01:27 | |
| *FurnaceBoy has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | Mar 06 03:34 | |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/RealHPT/status/44203930799964160 | Mar 06 04:09 |
|---|---|---|
| TechrightsBot-sc | @RealHPT: @schestowitz You know the c.o.l.advocacy trolls are grasping for straws, when they keep harping on 5 year old issues, M$ evangelism at best. | Mar 06 04:09 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/jonobacon/status/44228986435411970 | Mar 06 04:09 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | @jonobacon: @schestowitz: LOL, I doubt it :-) | Mar 06 04:09 |
| schestowitz | "Bacon Is Still Talked About For #Fedora 16 http://ur1.ca/3e85z with a name like this, is #redhat rooting for @jonobacon (defecting)?" | Mar 06 04:10 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: [Phoronix] Bacon Is Still Talked About For Fedora 16 .::. Size~: 17.27 KB | Mar 06 04:10 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Bacon job includes watching what the competition is doing. | Mar 06 04:13 |
| schestowitz | http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_frm/thread/c54fa32a840b3329# "How Net Applications statistics are derived! " | Mar 06 04:21 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: comp.os.linux.advocacy | Google Groups .::. Size~: 29.4 KB | Mar 06 04:21 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: and PR of sorts | Mar 06 04:23 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: why are you linking to cola? | Mar 06 04:23 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: they had a recentish troll thing about you | Mar 06 04:23 |
| sebsebseb | well about techrights I should say | Mar 06 04:23 |
| schestowitz | I've been participating in that newsgroup for ages | Mar 06 04:23 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: schestowitz was a member of cola before the trolls though it was a important place. | Mar 06 04:24 |
| oiaohm | Mailing list lacks good troll control. | Mar 06 04:25 |
| sebsebseb | now schestowitz you would probably be like, don't link to that, but you know whatever, I just gone and found the bookmark espesialley, since I have mentioned this already more than once on here recently, but without the link | Mar 06 04:30 |
| sebsebseb | http://compgroups.net/comp.os.linux.advocacy/Schestowitz-Thorws-A-Hissy-Fit-and-threatens-to-Quit-His-Job | Mar 06 04:31 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Schestowitz Thorws A Hissy Fit and threatens to Quit His Job!!! - comp.os.linux.advocacy | Computer Group .::. Size~: 42.23 KB | Mar 06 04:31 |
| sebsebseb | http://compgroups.net/comp.os.linux.advocacy/Schestowitz-Thorws-A-Hissy-Fit-and-threatens-to-Quit-His-Job | Mar 06 04:31 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Schestowitz Thorws A Hissy Fit and threatens to Quit His Job!!! - comp.os.linux.advocacy | Computer Group .::. Size~: 42.23 KB | Mar 06 04:31 |
| sebsebseb | plus you like being all open, so I guess I coudn't just go and pm that to you, whilst it staying in pm | Mar 06 04:32 |
| sebsebseb | open/public above | Mar 06 04:33 |
| schestowitz | It's that crazy stalker | Mar 06 04:33 |
| schestowitz | He's insane | Mar 06 04:33 |
| schestowitz | Spreads libel about the advocates there | Mar 06 04:34 |
| sebsebseb | there's another link or maybe that was the coments to thato ne or something | Mar 06 04:35 |
| sebsebseb | where it's a forum | Mar 06 04:35 |
| sebsebseb | and they try to troll you again, but | Mar 06 04:36 |
| sebsebseb | someone takes the defence or more than one person, let's see if I can find that whilst I am at it | Mar 06 04:36 |
| sebsebseb | http://help.lockergnome.com/linux/Mental-Cases-www-techrights-org--ftopict532194.html | Mar 06 04:47 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: The Mental Cases at www.techrights.org .::. Size~: 106.39 KB | Mar 06 04:47 |
| sebsebseb | http://help.lockergnome.com/linux/Mental-Cases-www-techrights-org--ftopict532194.html | Mar 06 04:47 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: The Mental Cases at www.techrights.org .::. Size~: 106.39 KB | Mar 06 04:47 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: ^ | Mar 06 04:47 |
| sebsebseb | who are mark and kent by the way, well they get mentioned | Mar 06 04:47 |
| schestowitz | You're linking to that stalker... Kent is a Linux advocate | Mar 06 04:49 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well in that second one I get mentioned in it as well | Mar 06 04:50 |
| sebsebseb | only by this name though | Mar 06 04:50 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: anyway I guess being part of this, will mean being trolled sometimes as well, like when they tried to take my name on you know what | Mar 06 04:51 |
| sebsebseb | just coming to the channels and typing stuff here and there, will be enough to be trolled at times, shame really | Mar 06 04:51 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: anyway you were just linking to cola, where you were trolled | Mar 06 04:52 |
| oiaohm | They normally leave my name alone. | Mar 06 04:55 |
| oiaohm | But they insult me. | Mar 06 04:56 |
| oiaohm | The problem is my english flaws imposters have a had time faking. | Mar 06 04:56 |
| oiaohm | had/hard | Mar 06 04:56 |
| oiaohm | early on a few tried faking me. sebsebseb. But by now you should have seen some my unique but changing errors. | Mar 06 04:58 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: right and I had one signing up as me on site, but I was able to get my name :) | Mar 06 04:58 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: maybe you missed this before or whatever http://www.muktware.com/n/04/2011/806/ubuntu-maryland-leader-quits-canonical-hijacking-ubuntu | Mar 06 04:59 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Ubuntu Maryland Leader Quits, Is Canonical Hijacking Ubuntu? | Muktware .::. Size~: 25.44 KB | Mar 06 04:59 |
| oiaohm | Also you would notice my natural grammar is not exactly normal either. | Mar 06 04:59 |
| schestowitz | I had dented it before you brought it up | Mar 06 05:04 |
| oiaohm | Really from the start Canonical over Ubuntu only gave the comuninty lip service. | Mar 06 05:15 |
| oiaohm | Anyone with ideas different to them lot of time got called neckbeards and were the reason why Linux failed to take off on the desktop. | Mar 06 05:16 |
| oiaohm | Not true of course. lot of reasons Linux has failed to take off on the desktop. | Mar 06 05:16 |
| oiaohm | http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/bing-and-kayak-questions-and-some-answers-on-microsofts-latest-search-partnership/8863 MS still attempting to buy way into market. | Mar 06 05:37 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Bing and Kayak: Questions (and some answers) on Microsoft's latest search partnership | ZDNet .::. Size~: 99.34 KB | Mar 06 05:37 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yeah | Mar 06 05:45 |
| schestowitz | Pathetic | Mar 06 05:45 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/Metztli_IT/status/44259999576363008 | Mar 06 05:46 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | @Metztli_IT: ♺ @schestowitz Al #Jazeera English Blacked Out Across Most Of U.S.[UPD] http://ur1.ca/32a0o & comm.providers say they're against #censorship | Mar 06 05:46 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | -> Title: Al Jazeera English Blacked Out Across Most Of U.S. [UPDATED] .::. Size~: 270.92 KB | Mar 06 05:46 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFw5TsAi1Mk | Mar 06 07:09 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: YouTube - Christians say the Dumbest Things .::. Size~: 127.22 KB | Mar 06 07:09 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: Canonical only gave the community lip service, what do you mean? | Mar 06 07:13 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: more and more people are starting to quit Ubuntu it seems, or get less invovled with it now :D | Mar 06 07:13 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: exactly how it sounds. Right from the start the core maintainers of Ubuntu have not wanted to listern to anyone with a techicical issue. Anyone who raised a techicial issue ended up branded a neck beard | Mar 06 07:14 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: basically as fine as long as you agree with them. Disagree be insulted. | Mar 06 07:14 |
| sebsebseb | I don't really understand the neck beard thing, maybe you can explain it to me | Mar 06 07:15 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: Or disregarded. | Mar 06 07:15 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: Insulting term that Linux personal use to use against Unix personal. | Mar 06 07:15 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: Ubuntu guys started using it against other Linux people. | Mar 06 07:15 |
| sebsebseb | well he did in that famous blog post yes | Mar 06 07:16 |
| sebsebseb | on omgubuntu | Mar 06 07:16 |
| oiaohm | And it was being done to complaints before the omgubuntu | Mar 06 07:16 |
| oiaohm | they started off calling some of the debian maintainers neckbeards before they split off and formed Ubuntu | Mar 06 07:17 |
| sebsebseb | oh? | Mar 06 07:17 |
| oiaohm | History does not speek kindly about Ubuntu to say the least. | Mar 06 07:17 |
| sebsebseb | well yeah Ubuntu isn't exactly liked by many people in the wider Linux community | Mar 06 07:18 |
| sebsebseb | it's the most loved distro, but also the most disliked/hated | Mar 06 07:18 |
| oiaohm | The split is older more experience coders lot of them hate Ubuntu | Mar 06 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Due to the treatment ubuntu has given them. | Mar 06 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu internal birth of being a dispute between way Debian like things and some of there more wild moves. | Mar 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | Of course sooner or latter going to lead to in fighting. | Mar 06 07:21 |
| sebsebseb | well I have had some pretty nasty or not very nice experiences with certain Ubuntu community members in the past, because of certain IRC stuff | Mar 06 07:21 |
| oiaohm | Part of the problem is there is a bad idea that the older explerinced people failed to make Linux a desktop OS so there path has to be wrong from Ubuntu. | Mar 06 07:21 |
| sebsebseb | and the distro's I am more invovled with now instead, oh yes the communities seem much nicer on IRC, but are also much smaller by a long way | Mar 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Linux failed to get on desktop for many reasons. | Mar 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Lack of hardware maker support is huge. | Mar 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Lack of standards formats so people could use Linux and do there work. | Mar 06 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Ie defacto standards of MS even today slow linux progress on desktop. | Mar 06 07:23 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well apparnatly Ubuntu made Debian user friendly | Mar 06 07:23 |
| oiaohm | Really. | Mar 06 07:24 |
| oiaohm | Debian had one of the most dependable installers. | Mar 06 07:24 |
| oiaohm | Debian was never a risk taker. | Mar 06 07:24 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu really did not make Debian user friendly as such. | Mar 06 07:24 |
| sebsebseb | as for Mandrake/Mandriva well being sued over the old name and such, and all this also at a time when they can't really compete against Broadband and so the downloads of Ubuntu and so on, but also a time where they can't also hand out free CD's | Mar 06 07:24 |
| sebsebseb | I guess | Mar 06 07:24 |
| sebsebseb | so yep they stopped being number one | Mar 06 07:25 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu spent a fortune on advertising. | Mar 06 07:25 |
| oiaohm | Ammount of userfriendlyness improvements really in the scale of things is minor. | Mar 06 07:26 |
| sebsebseb | yeah Ubuntu is where it is today | Mar 06 07:26 |
| sebsebseb | ,because of all the hype | Mar 06 07:26 |
| sebsebseb | and all that money behind it | Mar 06 07:26 |
| sebsebseb | money and hype | Mar 06 07:26 |
| oiaohm | Can you call deploying compiz or pulseaudio too soon being userfriendly. | Mar 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | So leading to users having to suffer threw failing audio and video. | Mar 06 07:27 |
| sebsebseb | deploy8ing compiz to soon??? | Mar 06 07:27 |
| sebsebseb | pulseaudio in 8.04 LTS was bad | Mar 06 07:27 |
| sebsebseb | puleaudio issues since 8.04 as I would say in #ubuntu at times basicalley | Mar 06 07:27 |
| sebsebseb | when they introduced it into Ubuntu | Mar 06 07:27 |
| oiaohm | simple low level questions. How many opengl application does a DRI1 driver support. sebsebseb | Mar 06 07:28 |
| sebsebseb | I don't know | Mar 06 07:28 |
| oiaohm | Answer is 1 | Mar 06 07:28 |
| sebsebseb | I don't know much about graphic card drivers or graphic cards in general even | Mar 06 07:28 |
| oiaohm | And only 1 | Mar 06 07:28 |
| sebsebseb | hardly anything at all in fact | Mar 06 07:28 |
| oiaohm | compiz is a opengl applicaiton in it self. | Mar 06 07:28 |
| oiaohm | So techically if you are running compiz on dri1 you have used up you only slot for opengl. | Mar 06 07:29 |
| oiaohm | So you should not load another opengl application. | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: anyway I was reading a comment about | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | why Linux hasn't hit off | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | on desktop | Mar 06 07:29 |
| oiaohm | Or risk strange behavour. | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | to something and basically one of the reasons is | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | since by the time there is something that is properly stable and works well | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | someone decides it's time to start something new | Mar 06 07:29 |
| sebsebseb | to re do the software, so yeah KDE 3 and KDE 4 for example | Mar 06 07:30 |
| sebsebseb | and I guess we will have something like this again with Gnome 2 and Gnome 3 | Mar 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | KDE 3 vs KDE 4 Bad call. | Mar 06 07:30 |
| sebsebseb | in fact it seems the first versions of Gnome Shell will be lacking certain featatures from Gnome 2, and then this thing about minimise and maximise not being there and shut down even | Mar 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | It was getting to the point in KDE 3 that half the code was fixing up QT defects . | Mar 06 07:30 |
| oiaohm | Migration had to happen from QT3 to QT4 | Mar 06 07:31 |
| sebsebseb | Gnome 2 is great, and it still would be for another 7 years really | Mar 06 07:31 |
| oiaohm | Developers saw this change as a chance to clean house. | Mar 06 07:31 |
| oiaohm | Basically KDE 3 was failing internally. | Mar 06 07:31 |
| oiaohm | Problem is for users is a lot of cases they cannot see what developers can see. | Mar 06 07:32 |
| oiaohm | Ie something slowing tangling itself up in knots at the code level can appear to function perfectly to the end user. sebsebseb | Mar 06 07:32 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: There area lot of areas inside linux that have been pure crap. | Mar 06 07:34 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: sure, but | Mar 06 07:34 |
| *gnufreex (~quassel@178-223-104-94.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Mar 06 07:34 | |
| oiaohm | Coded over and made look good. | Mar 06 07:34 |
| sebsebseb | well users pick teh software they want to use, when it comes to Desktop Linux in general | Mar 06 07:34 |
| sebsebseb | and they tend not to know much about how it was made and such either, if anything really | Mar 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | Problem is one day you have to clean house. | Mar 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | X.org is currently cleaning house. | Mar 06 07:34 |
| sebsebseb | as for Gnome 3 I think it's, because the GNome developers want to start properly inovating | Mar 06 07:34 |
| oiaohm | Gnome 3 is a responce to the fear the reaction KDE 4.x cleaning house caused. | Mar 06 07:35 |
| sebsebseb | x.org is sorting out bad code? | Mar 06 07:35 |
| sebsebseb | well wayland is coming | Mar 06 07:35 |
| oiaohm | So gnome developers are not going to clean house. | Mar 06 07:35 |
| sebsebseb | uh what do you mean? | Mar 06 07:35 |
| oiaohm | wayland development came out of cleaning up x.org | Mar 06 07:35 |
| oiaohm | Some of the code that has been removed from x.org in the last 12 months had not seen code maintaince for over 14 years. | Mar 06 07:36 |
| sebsebseb | GNome 3 is a response to KDE 4? | Mar 06 07:36 |
| sebsebseb | cleaning house? | Mar 06 07:36 |
| sebsebseb | GNome 3 is probably made really, to invoate and having something to compete more properly against KDE and such | Mar 06 07:36 |
| oiaohm | In all apis over time you build up functions that were good at the time. | Mar 06 07:36 |
| oiaohm | That are now useless. | Mar 06 07:36 |
| oiaohm | Clean house gives you a chance to get rid of those. | Mar 06 07:37 |
| oiaohm | Really the worse offender in Linux is libc | Mar 06 07:37 |
| oiaohm | Just keeps on growing and growing and growin. | Mar 06 07:37 |
| oiaohm | And the reason why libc cannot be cleaned simply. | Mar 06 07:38 |
| sebsebseb | uhmm I don't know much about libc | Mar 06 07:38 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I have read about the LInux kernel being bloated | Mar 06 07:38 |
| oiaohm | Is that due to dymanic loader not allowing multi versions of the same library installed in a sane method. | Mar 06 07:38 |
| oiaohm | sebsebseb: Linux kernel is cutting down on bloat. | Mar 06 07:38 |
| sebsebseb | you know distro's like Ubuntu hype up a new kernel | Mar 06 07:39 |
| sebsebseb | well quite a few of them really | Mar 06 07:39 |
| sebsebseb | for their next versions | Mar 06 07:39 |
| sebsebseb | well uhmm | Mar 06 07:39 |
| oiaohm | Really I don't like what Ubuntu does to their kernel. | Mar 06 07:39 |
| sebsebseb | I haven't really needed a later kernel for a while I guess | Mar 06 07:39 |
| oiaohm | They backport too much from tip. | Mar 06 07:39 |
| oiaohm | Then users have untested code. | Mar 06 07:39 |
| sebsebseb | just as long as it works and does it's thing you know, and is still supported really | Mar 06 07:40 |
| oiaohm | So items like wifi drivers can fail to work. | Mar 06 07:40 |
| sebsebseb | all this needing a later kernel thing, not true really, except for stil being supported for many of us I guess | Mar 06 07:40 |
| oiaohm | That work perfectly if the code is from stable. | Mar 06 07:40 |
| sebsebseb | they backport to much from tip? tip meaning? | Mar 06 07:40 |
| oiaohm | From trees developers are expermenting with features. | Mar 06 07:40 |
| oiaohm | That have not been really tested. | Mar 06 07:40 |
| oiaohm | And in some cases have very big warns. | Mar 06 07:41 |
| oiaohm | Like don't intergrate real-time cgroups yet because it will break jackaudio completely. | Mar 06 07:41 |
| sebsebseb | jackaudio ? | Mar 06 07:41 |
| oiaohm | And ubuntu did intergrate it. | Mar 06 07:41 |
| oiaohm | If you want todo pro audio work on Linux you will be using jackaudio as your sound server. sebsebseb | Mar 06 07:42 |
| sebsebseb | would be nice to read more about other distro's, that aren't Ubuntu or Debian, but well most of the stuff online seems to be about Ubuntu or Debian :( | Mar 06 07:42 |
| oiaohm | Is that not nice. | Mar 06 07:42 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu has pulseaudio that cannot do pro audio work. | Mar 06 07:42 |
| sebsebseb | hmm? | Mar 06 07:42 |
| sebsebseb | I think quite a few distro's have pulseaudio | Mar 06 07:42 |
| sebsebseb | by default now | Mar 06 07:43 |
| oiaohm | All bar the distrobutions that are setup for pro audio | Mar 06 07:43 |
| oiaohm | Yet under windows I have 1 install that can do pro audio and normal usage. | Mar 06 07:43 |
| sebsebseb | I know there are loads of differnet sound servers or whatever for Linux distro's, but I don't really know much about this, however I have read whatever before about Linux not being very good for sound or something | Mar 06 07:44 |
| oiaohm | Ok Why in hell do we have 2 sound servers. 1 for proaudio and one for general users. | Mar 06 07:44 |
| sebsebseb | uh it's more than two isn't it? | Mar 06 07:44 |
| sebsebseb | alsa | Mar 06 07:44 |
| sebsebseb | pulseaudio | Mar 06 07:44 |
| sebsebseb | oss or something is another isn't it? | Mar 06 07:45 |
| oiaohm | alsa and oss are direct hardware interfaces. | Mar 06 07:45 |
| oiaohm | They are not sound servers. | Mar 06 07:45 |
| sebsebseb | ah right yeah, apprantly pulseaudio can use alsa or whatever yeah | Mar 06 07:45 |
| sebsebseb | anyway before pulseaudio what did Ubuntu and so on use? | Mar 06 07:46 |
| oiaohm | Jackaudio and its releated applications can normally beat the crap out of any other audio solution on any other platform. | Mar 06 07:46 |
| oiaohm | So audio production on Linux can exceed windows mac or anything else. | Mar 06 07:46 |
| sebsebseb | well if that's so, why aren't distro's using that by default, but I guess that's basically what you were asking as well? | Mar 06 07:46 |
| oiaohm | There is a issue | Mar 06 07:46 |
| oiaohm | jackaudio is designed for pro work. | Mar 06 07:47 |
| oiaohm | So gives users too many options. | Mar 06 07:47 |
| sebsebseb | typed before you said about exceed for my last line | Mar 06 07:47 |
| sebsebseb | ok well this jackaudio why is it not really easy to have enabled for those that want it in many distro's if it's so good? | Mar 06 07:47 |
| oiaohm | Like the means to send left and right channels out from an application different directions. | Mar 06 07:47 |
| sebsebseb | and you say two many options? well I don't really know about this stuff, so I don't know what that means | Mar 06 07:47 |
| oiaohm | Jackaudio suites audio production. | Mar 06 07:48 |
| oiaohm | All its front ends are designed for that goal. | Mar 06 07:48 |
| oiaohm | Now for a generel user who just wants to lower a volume of an applicaiton out they don't want have todo what jackaudio demards. | Mar 06 07:49 |
| oiaohm | Ie add a mixer connect all the outputs from the application to the mixer then connect the mixer to output. | Mar 06 07:49 |
| oiaohm | As you can see long complex and messy for a normal user. | Mar 06 07:49 |
| oiaohm | For audio production is great you can use different mixes with different effects send audio threw what ever filters you like. | Mar 06 07:50 |
| sebsebseb | hmm ok | Mar 06 07:50 |
| oiaohm | Basically you have two pools of users. | Mar 06 07:50 |
| oiaohm | jackaudio can do what all users need but be very hard to use for your more general users. | Mar 06 07:51 |
| sebsebseb | right ok | Mar 06 07:51 |
| oiaohm | pulseaudio provides nice simple interface. | Mar 06 07:51 |
| sebsebseb | what did distro's use before pulseaudio? | Mar 06 07:51 |
| oiaohm | But pulseaudio has issues like 2 sec sound window to allow for network transfer. | Mar 06 07:51 |
| sebsebseb | alsa? ,but you say alsa isn't a sound server | Mar 06 07:52 |
| oiaohm | pulseaudio is an improvement. | Mar 06 07:52 |
| sebsebseb | distro's all used alsa before pulseaudio didn't they? ,but so without a sound server? | Mar 06 07:52 |
| oiaohm | Before pulseaudio gnome and kde and many other wms provided there own unque sound servers. | Mar 06 07:52 |
| sebsebseb | oh? | Mar 06 07:52 |
| sebsebseb | such as? | Mar 06 07:52 |
| oiaohm | like artd for kde, esound for gnome | Mar 06 07:52 |
| sebsebseb | ok esounds is maybe vaguely familur | Mar 06 07:53 |
| oiaohm | problem is those are not compadible with each other in any way shape or form. | Mar 06 07:53 |
| sebsebseb | ok sure, but yeah pulseaudio is | Mar 06 07:53 |
| oiaohm | sound servers never are. | Mar 06 07:53 |
| oiaohm | You can only ever really have 1 sound server. | Mar 06 07:54 |
| sebsebseb | and well Windows has it's own sound server I guess, and Mac OS X and so on as well? | Mar 06 07:54 |
| oiaohm | Windows and Mac OS X has only 1 sound server. | Mar 06 07:54 |
| oiaohm | And its in jackaudio class | Mar 06 07:55 |
| oiaohm | With a simple to use front end. | Mar 06 07:55 |
| sebsebseb | Windows and Mac OS X don't use the same sound server thougho r? | Mar 06 07:55 |
| oiaohm | Each has there own take on it. | Mar 06 07:55 |
| sebsebseb | it's not open soruce though whatever it is? | Mar 06 07:55 |
| oiaohm | Both are closed source. | Mar 06 07:56 |
| sebsebseb | or are there like specifications to say how to make a jackaudio type sound server? | Mar 06 07:56 |
| sebsebseb | that are public | Mar 06 07:56 |
| sebsebseb | and then they make their own? | Mar 06 07:56 |
| oiaohm | Windows and Mac OS X got the requirements pro audio required and built to them. | Mar 06 07:56 |
| oiaohm | Same did jackaudio | Mar 06 07:56 |
| sebsebseb | pro audio? | Mar 06 07:56 |
| oiaohm | Real-time handling of audio stream is one of the things they want. | Mar 06 07:57 |
| sebsebseb | what's pro audio? | Mar 06 07:57 |
| oiaohm | the level you would want if you were composing or performing live. | Mar 06 07:57 |
| sebsebseb | hmm ok I guess | Mar 06 07:57 |
| oiaohm | Lag they want less than a human can notice. | Mar 06 07:58 |
| sebsebseb | level of audio? how high or low it is? | Mar 06 07:58 |
| sebsebseb | Lag ??? | Mar 06 07:58 |
| sebsebseb | level? volume level? | Mar 06 07:58 |
| oiaohm | latancy | Mar 06 07:58 |
| sebsebseb | ok the word latancy sounds familur, but not sure what that is | Mar 06 07:58 |
| oiaohm | Lag is a term that is giving to how long it takes for a pre on a midi keyboard to come out of the computer as sound. | Mar 06 07:59 |
| oiaohm | latancy is basically a measure of it. | Mar 06 07:59 |
| oiaohm | You really don't want to have to wait like 2 seconds. sebsebseb | Mar 06 08:00 |
| sebsebseb | How does a computer make sound anyway? | Mar 06 08:00 |
| sebsebseb | and the correct sound even | Mar 06 08:00 |
| sebsebseb | how does all that work? | Mar 06 08:00 |
| sebsebseb | from the computer doing it's thing, to sound coming out of the speakers? | Mar 06 08:00 |
| oiaohm | http://jackaudio.org/applications | Mar 06 08:01 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Applications using JACK | JACK .::. Size~: 35.08 KB | Mar 06 08:01 |
| oiaohm | This is worse than just sound. | Mar 06 08:01 |
| oiaohm | midi keyboard is very much like a keyboard. | Mar 06 08:01 |
| oiaohm | Computure recieves a keypress message from the midi keyboard. | Mar 06 08:01 |
| oiaohm | Then a software synth or hardware synth has to produce the sound. Then any effect the artist wants performed on that sound has to be done. | Mar 06 08:02 |
| *abeNd-org has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | Mar 06 08:02 | |
| oiaohm | then it gets to sound drivers. | Mar 06 08:02 |
| oiaohm | and you have try to get that all done in a way that between press of button on midi keyboard to sound matching keypress starts coming out the speakers in under 1/4 of a secound | Mar 06 08:03 |
| oiaohm | Basically without a decently powerful machine you don't stand a chance in hell. sebsebseb | Mar 06 08:04 |
| oiaohm | Problem with pulseaudio you have a 2 second buffer in the way. That is the right size for sending stuff over network. But completely the wrong size for composing music. | Mar 06 08:04 |
| oiaohm | Also the 1/4 of a second has to be done no mater what else is happening on the machine sebsebseb | Mar 06 08:05 |
| oiaohm | Yes pro audio requirements are a prick. | Mar 06 08:06 |
| gnufreex | shuttleworth trots out some hmmm... things... here http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.html | Mar 06 11:18 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: /srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/01/#ubuntu-meeting.txt .::. Size~: 238.21 KB | Mar 06 11:18 |
| MinceR | ? | Mar 06 11:22 |
| gnufreex | Read all, there are too much to quote | Mar 06 11:22 |
| MinceR | tl;dr | Mar 06 11:22 |
| gnufreex | No soundbites | Mar 06 11:23 |
| gnufreex | You need to read all | Mar 06 11:23 |
| gnufreex | But it gives a peek | Mar 06 11:23 |
| gnufreex | How they think | Mar 06 11:23 |
| gnufreex | In line with what we knew already. | Mar 06 11:24 |
| MinceR | i can see they're full of it | Mar 06 11:35 |
| oiaohm | The ubuntu guys don't read history. | Mar 06 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Banshee is trademarked in the same way Firefox is. | Mar 06 11:45 |
| oiaohm | So doing alterations without approval is breach of trademark as long as the trademark remains. | Mar 06 11:45 |
| gnufreex | They shouldn't include banshee then | Mar 06 11:46 |
| gnufreex | They shouldn't include it at all | Mar 06 11:46 |
| MinceR | indeed | Mar 06 11:46 |
| MinceR | but they have a hardon for mono | Mar 06 11:46 |
| gnufreex | interestimg part: | Mar 06 11:46 |
| gnufreex | *interesting | Mar 06 11:47 |
| oiaohm | My question is how many other trademarks are they infringing on. gnufreex | Mar 06 11:47 |
| gnufreex | "sabdfl: I believe that unless you open up to a concept like that one in due course, eventually Ubuntu will lose attraction to volunteers entirely. The alternative is very demotivating" | Mar 06 11:47 |
| gnufreex | "mdkeI don't like reading that Canonical owns Ubuntu. I'd like to see a concept where Ubuntu is a community driven project, with Canonical as the major funder and employee of many developers.22:06 | Mar 06 11:48 |
| gnufreex | mdkeIf that is accepted, then it obviously follows that there should be a community governance team with overall supervision of such issues22:06 | Mar 06 11:48 |
| gnufreex | mdkethere's no reason why such a team could not be sensitive to Canonical interests as we all are now" | Mar 06 11:48 |
| gnufreex | sabdflmdke: i appreciate that's a noble idea, but i don't believe it's workable | Mar 06 11:48 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Mar 06 11:51 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to gnufreex MinceR qu1j0t3 | Mar 06 11:52 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to sebsebseb | Mar 06 11:52 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Mar 06 11:52 | |
| sebsebseb | oh I got opped here :D | Mar 06 12:17 |
| sebsebseb | for a bit at least | Mar 06 12:17 |
| sebsebseb | not the other channel though | Mar 06 12:18 |
| sebsebseb | anyway yeah that log gnufreex MinceR oiaohm | Mar 06 12:19 |
| sebsebseb | also Mark calls Fedora Open Core in it and well | Mar 06 12:19 |
| sebsebseb | in fact I got a link to do with that log a good one, well if I can find it again which I should be able to hold on | Mar 06 12:19 |
| sebsebseb | ah yes I know how to get it of course | Mar 06 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Really I would not be supprised if at some point over Canonical treatment of Ubuntu that we don't see a walk out like libreoffice did. | Mar 06 12:21 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: well this is about someone quitting Ubuntu well pretty much | Mar 06 12:21 |
| sebsebseb | it's good | Mar 06 12:21 |
| oiaohm | The trends of the break down are going on. sebsebseb | Mar 06 12:22 |
| sebsebseb | oiaohm: yep | Mar 06 12:23 |
| sebsebseb | it's happening | Mar 06 12:23 |
| sebsebseb | more and more people people are getting annoyeed with Ubuntu | Mar 06 12:23 |
| sebsebseb | and some of them, people who have had an important role in the Ubuntu project as well | Mar 06 12:23 |
| sebsebseb | http://www.muktware.com/n/04/2011/806/ubuntu-maryland-leader-quits-canonical-hijacking-ubuntu | Mar 06 12:24 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Ubuntu Maryland Leader Quits, Is Canonical Hijacking Ubuntu? | Muktware .::. Size~: 24.93 KB | Mar 06 12:24 |
| sebsebseb | right, but | Mar 06 12:24 |
| sebsebseb | it's the original link that has the interesting comments :) | Mar 06 12:24 |
| sebsebseb | http://www.chuckfrain.net/blog/2011/03/04/stepping-down-as-ubuntu-maryland-leader/ | Mar 06 12:25 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Chuck's Words › Stepping Down As Ubuntu Maryland Leader .::. Size~: 53.07 KB | Mar 06 12:25 |
| *nisshh (~ryan@ubuntu/member/nisshh) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Mar 06 12:29 | |
| nisshh | o/ | Mar 06 12:29 |
| sebsebseb | ok hi nisshh | Mar 06 12:29 |
| gnufreex | "sabdflhow much of the revenue red hat makes from support contracts for apache get delivered as cash to apache.org?" | Mar 06 12:29 |
| gnufreex | shuttleworth compares apache with banshee, while Jono say it is ok for Novell to fork Spacewalk and ask money from canonical for Banshee. | Mar 06 12:29 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: did you read that Ubuntu meeting log by the way from earlier this month? | Mar 06 12:29 |
| sebsebseb | that's being talked about again now | Mar 06 12:30 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: also I got links you should check out :) | Mar 06 12:30 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: Novell fork of Spacewalk did they not use a different name for it. | Mar 06 12:30 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: so avoiding trademark issues and consumer protection problems. | Mar 06 12:30 |
| nisshh | the logs about jono calling the community a peanut factory? | Mar 06 12:30 |
| gnufreex | What difference does it make? I am sure that Novell would scream rippoff if Canonical renamed Banshee. | Mar 06 12:31 |
| gnufreex | You just can't please them | Mar 06 12:31 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: yes that | Mar 06 12:31 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: ,but also Shuttleworth calling Fedora open core | Mar 06 12:31 |
| nisshh | yeah, i saw that too | Mar 06 12:31 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: One is legal one is Not. | Mar 06 12:31 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: ok, but did you see this? http://www.muktware.com/n/04/2011/806/ubuntu-maryland-leader-quits-canonical-hijacking-ubuntu and even better this: http://www.chuckfrain.net/blog/2011/03/04/stepping-down-as-ubuntu-maryland-leader/ | Mar 06 12:32 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Ubuntu Maryland Leader Quits, Is Canonical Hijacking Ubuntu? | Muktware .::. Size~: 24.93 KB | Mar 06 12:32 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: Chuck's Words › Stepping Down As Ubuntu Maryland Leader .::. Size~: 53.07 KB | Mar 06 12:32 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: Like Orcale with libreoffice. Legally Orcale cannot say swat. | Mar 06 12:32 |
| sebsebseb | the comments on that second page, now that is so worth reading a lot of those | Mar 06 12:32 |
| gnufreex | oiaohm: Trademark is a tort, they need to sue to make it illegal. If they sue, Canonical would simply remove it. So they wouldn't sue. They want to infect things with Mono. | Mar 06 12:32 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: trademarks come part of consumer protection laws. | Mar 06 12:33 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: so this is two people I have read about recently that are basically quitting Ubuntu, well I guess the other is | Mar 06 12:33 |
| nisshh | sebsebseb, no i didnt | Mar 06 12:33 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: that makes anyone shipping in particular countries in trouble. | Mar 06 12:33 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: Like where I am fair trading does not need it. False repesentation of a trademark. You don't need the trademark holder to complain. | Mar 06 12:34 |
| gnufreex | so what are you arguing, they are not allowed to rename, but they are not allowed to stay with same name if they don't give money to banshee? | Mar 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: Only a single customer has to. | Mar 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | If you rename gnufreex No issue. | Mar 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | Keeping the same name and change where the money goes legal issue appears. | Mar 06 12:34 |
| gnufreex | I think you said otherwise on Shuttleworth's blog | Mar 06 12:34 |
| oiaohm | No I did not. | Mar 06 12:35 |
| gnufreex | Not sure. | Mar 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Maybe my wording was too complex. | Mar 06 12:35 |
| gnufreex | ok | Mar 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | My wording is prity direct. | Mar 06 12:35 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: well read the links I gave, and the comments, and say something about that :) | Mar 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | If they change the name no legal issue. | Mar 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | If they keep them name changing the money location issue appears. | Mar 06 12:35 |
| oiaohm | MIT license did not give them a trademark. gnufreex | Mar 06 12:36 |
| gnufreex | the way I understood, I thought you said there is law in australia that is against renaming. Like treats it like conning customers. | Mar 06 12:36 |
| gnufreex | Does that make sense? | Mar 06 12:36 |
| gnufreex | I probably got it wrong | Mar 06 12:37 |
| oiaohm | Law is against false repestantion | Mar 06 12:37 |
| oiaohm | And that law is a pain in ass. | Mar 06 12:37 |
| oiaohm | Because if you do rename you have to be truthful about being a fork as well. | Mar 06 12:37 |
| gnufreex | Aha | Mar 06 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Basically consumer protection laws are a pain in ass. but they have to be obeyed. gnufreex | Mar 06 12:38 |
| gnufreex | So they are not allowed just to rename | Mar 06 12:38 |
| gnufreex | They need to make new project | Mar 06 12:38 |
| gnufreex | so no Iceweasel | Mar 06 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Iceweasel passes. | Mar 06 12:38 |
| gnufreex | ok, Iceweasel is a project | Mar 06 12:38 |
| gnufreex | It has separate repository | Mar 06 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101030 firefox/3.0.6 (like Firefox/3.6.13) | Mar 06 12:39 |
| nisshh | sebsebseb, yeah, im currently busy experimenting with git, but ill look a bit later | Mar 06 12:39 |
| oiaohm | That is on the about page. gnufreex | Mar 06 12:39 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: oh right what you doing with git? | Mar 06 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Iceweasel does not try to hide that its releated. gnufreex | Mar 06 12:39 |
| gnufreex | Yeah, but if trademark is used to full extent, you are forbiden to say you are releated | Mar 06 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically rename and be truthful about where the project is from and you are fine. gnufreex | Mar 06 12:40 |
| gnufreex | Like for example with UNIX | Mar 06 12:40 |
| gnufreex | You might not mention UNIX | Mar 06 12:40 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: to be correct wrong. | Mar 06 12:40 |
| oiaohm | UNIX was never a product is test against standards. | Mar 06 12:41 |
| gnufreex | It have been a product | Mar 06 12:41 |
| gnufreex | In 80s | Mar 06 12:41 |
| gnufreex | But that is not the point | Mar 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | unixware was the 80s product name. | Mar 06 12:41 |
| gnufreex | UNIX is example of full use of trademark | Mar 06 12:41 |
| gnufreex | you might not say its name | Mar 06 12:41 |
| gnufreex | in any propaganda material | Mar 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | UNIX is the standards. | Mar 06 12:41 |
| oiaohm | If you were based of unixware you could say it based of unixware | Mar 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | but you could not use the standard name UNIX unless you passed. | Mar 06 12:42 |
| MinceR | unix is not a standard. posix and sus are standards | Mar 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | And passed equals paid. | Mar 06 12:42 |
| MinceR | and you can use the unix name if you pay x/open enough | Mar 06 12:42 |
| MinceR | they mismanage the trademark | Mar 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | Unix is a set of standard including posix with test suites. | Mar 06 12:42 |
| MinceR | i think it's in our best interests to genericize it. | Mar 06 12:42 |
| oiaohm | That you must pay x/open to test that you confrom to. | Mar 06 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Yes legal ugly hell. | Mar 06 12:43 |
| gnufreex | MinceR: That is what I am saying, you might not use it uless you pay. | Mar 06 12:43 |
| gnufreex | Mozilla doesn't use trademark that way. | Mar 06 12:43 |
| gnufreex | They let "about" box have Mozilla | Mar 06 12:43 |
| gnufreex | name | Mar 06 12:44 |
| gnufreex | Only their distro can have Mozilla branding. | Mar 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | firefox trademark with like after is another trademark loop hole. | Mar 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | You cannot be done for writing UNIX like | Mar 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Or firefox like | Mar 06 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Or any trademark like | Mar 06 12:45 |
| nisshh | sebsebseb, trying it out, thinking of setting up a local git instance | Mar 06 12:45 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: hmm ok | Mar 06 12:45 |
| nisshh | for backup of some of my important configs and such | Mar 06 12:45 |
| sebsebseb | for what | Mar 06 12:45 |
| sebsebseb | ? | Mar 06 12:45 |
| nisshh | hehe ^^^ | Mar 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | (like Firefox/3.6.13) << gnufreex this say that is like Firefox/3.6.13 | Mar 06 12:45 |
| sebsebseb | nisshh: for your Ubuntu install I guess | Mar 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | Ie that is most likely based on that but its not. gnufreex | Mar 06 12:45 |
| nisshh | important configs and other useful files | Mar 06 12:45 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: like is a magic word in trademark law. | Mar 06 12:46 |
| sebsebseb | right ok nisshh | Mar 06 12:46 |
| nisshh | sebsebseb, yes, for my Ubuntu install | Mar 06 12:46 |
| gnufreex | oiaohm: Yes, based on could help in some countries. | Mar 06 12:46 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: I got it wrong. the OS name of first Unix was. UNIX System III | Mar 06 12:46 |
| gnufreex | "based on" | Mar 06 12:47 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: based on is also another valid magic words. | Mar 06 12:47 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: but using based on you have to give notice that its X person trademark. | Mar 06 12:47 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: failure to give source you are dead basically. | Mar 06 12:48 |
| oiaohm | You can almost do what ever you like just there are a few minorally annoying rules. | Mar 06 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Like you must not decieve custommers. | Mar 06 12:49 |
| gnufreex | I looked again at Shuttleworthless's logs... when he talks about Red Hat, he is like Bill Gates talking about GPL. | Mar 06 12:50 |
| gnufreex | Spouts nonsense with a straight face. | Mar 06 12:50 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: the most not deceive customers is mostly a global laws. | Mar 06 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Most/must | Mar 06 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Just written differently in lots of countries. | Mar 06 12:51 |
| sebsebseb | gnufreex: uh going by a comment I read earlier to something, someone basically said, that with Ubuntu they want to lock people in like Windows and Mac OS X, well indeed at that really | Mar 06 12:51 |
| oiaohm | Mostly with the same legal requirements. | Mar 06 12:51 |
| sebsebseb | I have said stuff about Ubuntu vender lock in myself, before even | Mar 06 12:51 |
| sebsebseb | anyway Ubuntu is a product, and very much so now, it's about making Canonical money big time now, unlike before | Mar 06 12:52 |
| sebsebseb | hence why that Maryland guy is quitting running the loco it seems | Mar 06 12:52 |
| oiaohm | To make money you don't have to be a prick. | Mar 06 12:52 |
| oiaohm | To make money you don't have to break law. | Mar 06 12:52 |
| sebsebseb | yeah to both | Mar 06 12:53 |
| oiaohm | What Novell did with the Spacewalk in fact is no different to what Redhat does themselves | Mar 06 12:55 |
| oiaohm | Redhat own version of Spacewalk is called Satellite gnufreex | Mar 06 12:56 |
| gnufreex | I know | Mar 06 12:56 |
| oiaohm | Spacewalk is the name for the community run project. | Mar 06 12:56 |
| gnufreex | Red Hat Network Satellite | Mar 06 12:57 |
| *abeNd-org (~KKlenke@tx-76-0-85-213.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Mar 06 12:57 | |
| oiaohm | So if Novell wanted to apply some patches and name theirs differnet redhat could not really argue. | Mar 06 12:57 |
| oiaohm | At least when Novell version plays up Redhat would not get blamed for it. | Mar 06 12:57 |
| oiaohm | Yes one of the key reason for requiring trading name changes. | Mar 06 12:58 |
| gnufreex | Yeah, but Spacewalk could argue. But that is not what I am saying | Mar 06 12:58 |
| oiaohm | No one from Spacewalk did. | Mar 06 12:58 |
| gnufreex | I am saying that Novell hacks are all over canonical about banshee, but they are doing same thing. | Mar 06 12:58 |
| oiaohm | and Novell has not complained about some of the other items Redhat has cloned off them. | Mar 06 12:59 |
| oiaohm | To be correct forked off them. | Mar 06 12:59 |
| gnufreex | Only difference is that Red Hat understands FOSS, while Novell has quassy FOSS banshee that wants moeny. | Mar 06 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Each time both parties changed trademarks. | Mar 06 12:59 |
| oiaohm | So the right people would take the blame. | Mar 06 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu with banshee is techically and legally doing the wrong thing. | Mar 06 13:00 |
| gnufreex | Banshee could sue them over trademark, but then they will get evicted and it will set back Mono jihad. | Mar 06 13:00 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: Is really simple. If Ubuntu wants the money so much change the trademark. | Mar 06 13:00 |
| gnufreex | They should just remove Banshee | Mar 06 13:01 |
| gnufreex | And use Rytmbox | Mar 06 13:01 |
| sebsebseb | Mint will do Rythombox by default | Mar 06 13:01 |
| sebsebseb | ,but | Mar 06 13:01 |
| sebsebseb | if in the Ubuntu based version | Mar 06 13:01 |
| sebsebseb | Banshee get's installed I guess got the Canonical agreement stuff | Mar 06 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Problem is what if all distributions start doing what Canonical did. | Mar 06 13:01 |
| sebsebseb | and if it's done in the Debian version, I gues got the Debian way without that | Mar 06 13:01 |
| gnufreex | Mint has nothing with that. | Mar 06 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Very quickly there could be no upstream income. | Mar 06 13:02 |
| gnufreex | ah | Mar 06 13:02 |
| oiaohm | What is next ubuntu nicking the income from Mozilla firefox. | Mar 06 13:02 |
| sebsebseb | gnufreex: Mint can use pretty much all or all of the Ubuntu packages, see above | Mar 06 13:02 |
| sebsebseb | I can have Unity in Mint if I want to | Mar 06 13:02 |
| sebsebseb | I wonder what Mint will be doing for the next one when it comes to Gnome Shell, providing it optionally them selves in the repo? | Mar 06 13:03 |
| sebsebseb | or going for the Ubuntu ppa for 11.04 for it? hmm | Mar 06 13:03 |
| gnufreex | They are going GNOME3 | Mar 06 13:03 |
| sebsebseb | gnufreex: yes | Mar 06 13:03 |
| gnufreex | Somebody told me. | Mar 06 13:03 |
| sebsebseb | ,but not with Gnome Shell by default | Mar 06 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Really Ubuntu is setting a bad precedent. | Mar 06 13:03 |
| gnufreex | I don't know about that | Mar 06 13:03 |
| sebsebseb | it's not with GNome Shell | Mar 06 13:03 |
| sebsebseb | it will look like MInt is now | Mar 06 13:03 |
| sebsebseb | they are not doing GNome Shell or Unity by default | Mar 06 13:03 |
| gnufreex | Frankly, I don't see why projects should get revenue like they are coroporations. | Mar 06 13:05 |
| gnufreex | What Banshee should ask from Canonical is contributors | Mar 06 13:05 |
| gnufreex | Not money | Mar 06 13:05 |
| gnufreex | But since they are mono, I wouldn't like to see that either :-) | Mar 06 13:06 |
| gnufreex | But say Rytmbox | Mar 06 13:06 |
| gnufreex | They shouldn't ask for money | Mar 06 13:06 |
| sebsebseb | more and more people being annoyed with Ubuntu, will mean more and more going to other distro's :D | Mar 06 13:06 |
| gnufreex | They should ask for full time contributors | Mar 06 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Rythom box has a store in it as well. gnufreex | Mar 06 13:06 |
| oiaohm | That Ubuntu has redirected as well. | Mar 06 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Remember lot of projects have foundations behind them. | Mar 06 13:07 |
| gnufreex | Yeah, but Rythombox didn't cry like this | Mar 06 13:07 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: are you wondering why Rythombox is not default. | Mar 06 13:07 |
| gnufreex | why? | Mar 06 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Rythombox just sent the lawyers and ubuntu changed it back. | Mar 06 13:08 |
| gnufreex | Because screamers are too loud, probably | Mar 06 13:08 |
| oiaohm | There is no point to screaming | Mar 06 13:08 |
| gnufreex | Rythmox sent lawyers? | Mar 06 13:08 |
| oiaohm | There are legal groups who for free will deal with these issues. | Mar 06 13:08 |
| gnufreex | You have some info aobut that? | Mar 06 13:08 |
| gnufreex | It is not trademarked. | Mar 06 13:09 |
| gnufreex | AFAIK | Mar 06 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Consumer proteciton laws don't require a trademark to enforce. gnufreex | Mar 06 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Yes the good old false repesentation problem. | Mar 06 13:10 |
| gnufreex | On what grounds they sent lawyers then? | Mar 06 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Consumer being decieved | Mar 06 13:10 |
| gnufreex | That can't be done without trademark | Mar 06 13:11 |
| oiaohm | That can be done without a trademark. | Mar 06 13:11 |
| oiaohm | As a consumer | Mar 06 13:11 |
| gnufreex | do you have some links about that stroy? | Mar 06 13:11 |
| gnufreex | It is bizarre | Mar 06 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Really best place if you are in australia to start is fair trading. | Mar 06 13:12 |
| gnufreex | That is stupid if they did that. They poluted world with Mono indirectly. | Mar 06 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Usa has another equal. gnufreex | Mar 06 13:12 |
| oiaohm | And when you read them you find out shock horror. Trademarks are not exactly required. | Mar 06 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Even nasty bit is only the possiblity of a consumer being decived has to exist. | Mar 06 13:13 |
| gnufreex | Another reason why money shouldn't be up for grabs to project like this | Mar 06 13:13 |
| gnufreex | They get greedy and forget about FOSS | Mar 06 13:13 |
| gnufreex | And outside moles can make divisions | Mar 06 13:13 |
| gnufreex | Foundations should get money from members and donations | Mar 06 13:14 |
| gnufreex | Not from products | Mar 06 13:14 |
| gnufreex | if they get from products, then they are coprorations | Mar 06 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Not that it has that being decieved has ever happend. | Mar 06 13:14 |
| gnufreex | Music store is like products. | Mar 06 13:14 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: also be aware these consumer protection laws pushed to the letter. | Mar 06 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Failing to upstream patches while using the same name would also be an offence. | Mar 06 13:15 |
| gnufreex | If they did what you said, they are bunch of pricks then | Mar 06 13:16 |
| gnufreex | They are even worse than banshee. | Mar 06 13:16 |
| oiaohm | I am just saying what the law is. | Mar 06 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Worse part about rythombox warned them. | Mar 06 13:16 |
| oiaohm | Problem is to push the consumer protection you don't need to be a copyright or trademark holder. | Mar 06 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft techically could push the consumer protection ie anyone can. | Mar 06 13:17 |
| oiaohm | And consumer protection has savage teeth. | Mar 06 13:18 |
| oiaohm | It does hit everyone providing the product as well as the maker. gnufreex | Mar 06 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is techically off limits from a consumer protection law suit. gnufreex | Mar 06 13:19 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: Consumer protection in a lot of countries predates trademarks and copyrights. | Mar 06 13:20 |
| oiaohm | gnufreex: basically ryhtombox was trying to protect them from legal hell. Banshee is yelling and screaming in public why because they don't want to risk being pulled. | Mar 06 13:22 |
| schestowitz | I've just things up such that my files are copies from one server to another to be kept in sync (not a cron job yet) and I'll try to mail a PDF shortly. | Mar 06 13:43 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 06 14:02 | |
| schestowitz | I just got a sort of research contract. | Mar 06 15:35 |
| schestowitz | The work so far has taken about 20 hours, including the long time it took to get set up and familiar with all sorts of processes and facilities. Due to problems working from home, progress was put on hold after about 10 days and can resume at a faster pace in later months (initial contract is for 50 hours per month, for 3 months). A lot more time was spent studying the literature in the field. | Mar 06 15:35 |
| schestowitz | What was achieved so far (except technicalities that relate to getting accustomed to the new environment) can be summarised by what I'll post in my blog later | Mar 06 15:35 |
| schestowitz | It's all free software. | Mar 06 15:35 |
| schestowitz | :-0 | Mar 06 15:36 |
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| qu1j0t3 | :) | Mar 06 15:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: http://twitter.com/#!/edwardvirtually/status/44431842643935232 | Mar 06 16:27 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | @edwardvirtually: Obama chief of staff admits Obama has no political loyalties: http://tinyurl.com/4hsteg8 | Mar 06 16:27 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | -> Title: Daley: Obama doesn't sweat 2012 politics - POLITICO Live - POLITICO.com .::. Size~: 62.9 KB | Mar 06 16:27 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: thanks, added | Mar 06 16:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: more corporate 'charity' 'fixing' the society that they broke: http://www.refresheverything.ca/redseven | Mar 06 16:47 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: transform the lives of 200 children from high-needs areas in Toronto | Pepsi Refresh Everything - Canada .::. Size~: 20.4 KB | Mar 06 16:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i.e. it's not just a tactic for individuals | Mar 06 16:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | see also reputation laundry, whitewashing etc | Mar 06 16:47 |
| *qu1j0t3 removes channel operator status from qu1j0t3 | Mar 06 16:48 | |
| qu1j0t3 | http://twitter.com/#!/guardiannews/status/44440171952865280 | Mar 06 16:58 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | @guardiannews: Prince Andrew 'committed' to trade envoy role http://gu.com/p/2nhah/tf | Mar 06 16:58 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | -> Title: Prince Andrew 'committed' to trade envoy role | UK news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 129.73 KB | Mar 06 16:58 |
| schestowitz | Heh | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: yes, agree with you on that | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | I have a post on Gates coming | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | I fell behind | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | It's important to raise people's awareness | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | c.f. Zuckerberg | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Before I move into the apartment (offline for a few days), here is a rough assemblage of notes. | Mar 06 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Bill Gates' lobbying for patents (for profit) http://harry.sufehmi.com/archives/2006-01-30-1105/ | Mar 06 17:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Title: harry.sufehmi.com » Blog Archive » Bill Gates : the Philanthropist ? .::. Size~: 41.68 KB | Mar 06 17:00 |
| schestowitz | This new one links to me, I thinl | Mar 06 17:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: did u see this http://twitter.com/#!/BoingBoing/status/44249862136545280 | Mar 06 17:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | @BoingBoing: Canada's prime minister abolishes the Government of Canada, replaces it with "the Harper g http://bit.ly/gkz5h0 | Mar 06 17:00 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | -> Title: Canada's prime minister abolishes the Government of Canada, replaces it with "the Harper government" - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 119.12 KB | Mar 06 17:00 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know | Mar 06 17:00 |
| schestowitz | people accused me of covering too much Canada stuff | Mar 06 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Thought I was from Canada | Mar 06 17:01 |
| schestowitz | Which is funny, because people in Manchester often guess the same | Mar 06 17:01 |
| schestowitz | brb | Mar 06 17:01 |
| schestowitz | can anybody help with the following? | Mar 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | > I am contacting you as friend to ask some help. The situation in | Mar 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | > Latvia is not so good, but I plan to compose letter to President of | Mar 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | > Latvia and Ministry President to say some truth about open source but | Mar 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | > I don't have any right good numbers about how many money can be saved, | Mar 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | > but I want to ask you to give me some ideas, numbers. Maybe you can | Mar 06 17:49 |
| schestowitz | > help to make this letter? | Mar 06 17:49 |
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| qu1j0t3 | hmm | Mar 06 19:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: it struck me a couple of days ago | Mar 06 19:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: that the very way work is constructed and packaged heightens social inequalities. | Mar 06 19:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: and that packaging/habits/conventions/conditions has hardly changed since WWII | Mar 06 19:13 |
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| schestowitz | "people are poor because they're lazy" ~idiotic, patronising rich people | Mar 06 19:37 |
| schestowitz | brb | Mar 06 19:37 |
| schestowitz | gotta record now | Mar 06 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: http://bit.ly/fwyLE6 | Mar 06 19:37 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | Missing content type. Ignoring. | Mar 06 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: that wasn't really what I meant. | Mar 06 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: the packaging of work as 'full time'... heightens social inequality | Mar 06 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: it doesn't adapt to society's needs or individuals' needs | Mar 06 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: and creates a very brutal wedge | Mar 06 19:38 |
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| *Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). | Mar 06 21:54 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 6 21:54:05 2011 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 6 21:55:45 2011 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Mar 06 21:55 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell-social for http://TechRights.org | Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell | Mar 06 21:55 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:20:14 2010 | Mar 06 21:55 | |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz. | Mar 06 21:55 | |
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| schestowitz | https://identi.ca/notice/66285327 | Mar 06 22:12 |
| schestowitz | OT^ | Mar 06 22:12 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | @Dr. Roy Schestowitz (schestowitz)'s status on Sunday, 06-Mar-11 21:49:53 UTC - Identi.ca: Working With the FRGC 3-D Faces Database – Part I http://ur1.ca/3ekyk relating to my current coding/research project | Mar 06 22:13 |
| TechrightsBot-sc | -> Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Working With the FRGC 3-D Faces Database – Part I .::. Size~: 45.41 KB | Mar 06 22:13 |
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