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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: June 7th, 2011

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schestowitzMinceR: see Jun 07 12:18
schestowitz 07 12:18
schestowitzIn "[Very NSFW]"Jun 07 12:18
schestowitzWTH? Reddit allows this?Jun 07 12:18
MinceRyesJun 07 12:19
schestowitzWeird... it can put the whole site on net filtersJun 07 12:33
MinceRthose filters suckJun 07 12:37
MinceRand should not be usedJun 07 12:37
schestowitzEmployers don't careJun 07 12:37
MinceRi doubt that getting through corporate filters is among reddit's goals :>Jun 07 12:38
MinceRthen again, they could try SSH tunnels, VPNs or proxies :>Jun 07 12:38
schestowitzMany would nor botherJun 07 12:39
schestowitz*notJun 07 12:39
oiaohmMinceR: issue is a ssh link or a vpn link even a tor link is not that invisable.Jun 07 12:40
abeNd-orgmeh, as a ssyadmin, id love to block all websurfing & whitelist what is really required for work...which after the user having to request permission from some higherup, would be a pretty short listJun 07 12:42
MinceRoiaohm: some companies tolerate SSH linksJun 07 12:42
MinceRthen again, i do have a GSM/UMTS link ready if all else fails :>Jun 07 12:43
abeNd-org& block all ports, only open up those necessary Jun 07 12:43
oiaohmNote the word some.Jun 07 12:43
MinceRi would not use web filteringJun 07 12:43
abeNd-orgyeah, not sure about people with laptops & wifi tethers Jun 07 12:43
MinceRit's not the best way to convince workers to not browse pr0n instead of workingJun 07 12:43
oiaohmYep I use if you are caught were you should not be fired method.Jun 07 12:44
MinceRotherwise it just reduces efficiency as people have to ask access to various reference sites they needJun 07 12:44
MinceRoiaohm: exactlyJun 07 12:44
MinceRor even just "if your performance is impacted noticeably by it"Jun 07 12:44
oiaohmOf course I still have a monitorJun 07 12:44
oiaohmOdd sites equal look at X person closerJun 07 12:44
oiaohmLot of times it either virus or no good.Jun 07 12:45
abeNd-orgyou have to protect them from themselves. i was scheduled to remote control into some guy's computer in another state, i hop in, dude was on nasty shit...blames it on spyware on the computer (onboard AV & multiple virus/spyware cleaners showed it clean)Jun 07 12:45
MinceRthere are other ways of doing so, thoughJun 07 12:46
abeNd-orgif you remove the carrot...Jun 07 12:46
MinceRyou can educate the users, switch them to a more secure OS, let them run at lesser privileges, restrict what they can executeJun 07 12:47
MinceR(these are mostly independent options)Jun 07 12:47
abeNd-org"oh ill just check scores on espn real quick" 30 minutes later, no work done, but you know which how much the moron who shot himself in the leg is being offered to play in the nfl againJun 07 12:47
oiaohmabeNd-org: I have had the case of someone else using the person login.Jun 07 12:48
abeNd-orgthere are some users who refuse to be educated, some of which of course "know more than any stupid IT person", so no matter what OS you put them on, how much you lock them down, they are going to try to find that pr0nJun 07 12:48
oiaohmReason why I normally have the bad habit of using cams near there locations as well.Jun 07 12:48
oiaohmabeNd-org: I did have one of those people I could not fire.Jun 07 12:49
oiaohmabeNd-org: I just disconnected his login from internet access rights.Jun 07 12:49
abeNd-orgoh, shared logins, thats usually a pretty bad infraction of the company computer use policyJun 07 12:49
oiaohmabeNd-org: reason why I said no good.Jun 07 12:49
oiaohmIts normally a infraction of someformJun 07 12:49
abeNd-organd now illegal in Tennessee lolJun 07 12:50
oiaohmJust what one.Jun 07 12:50
abeNd-orgyes, & usually IT is the one that gets in trouble for enforcing the rules, management usually goes spinlessJun 07 12:50
MinceRabeNd-org: now are you talking about pr0n or malware?Jun 07 12:52
MinceRdifferent problems, different solutionsJun 07 12:52
abeNd-orgend users will blame bad surfing habits on malwareJun 07 12:53
oiaohmMinceR: Really in a lot of cases they are the same problem.Jun 07 12:53
abeNd-orgget caught surfing pr0n, blame it on malware, you are off scott freeJun 07 12:53
oiaohmMinceR: Lot of porn sites are malware loaded weapons.Jun 07 12:53
oiaohmabeNd-org: Again that depends on method and rules.Jun 07 12:53
abeNd-orgso even if the computer does scan clean with multiple scanners afterwards, management will just say it was malware & thats okJun 07 12:53
MinceRabeNd-org: then your problem is gullible admins/managementJun 07 12:54
abeNd-orgmincer welcome to business worldwideJun 07 12:54
abeNd-orgyou have just described middle management in nearly every company in the worldJun 07 12:54
oiaohmabeNd-org: I guess you don't have a required internet reeducation program.  With internet access revoked until passed incase of infection,Jun 07 12:55
MinceR:>Jun 07 12:55
oiaohmI have to redo certifications if my servers get busted.Jun 07 12:55
oiaohmAnd I managed to get that past boss.Jun 07 12:55
oiaohmIe it was only fair.Jun 07 12:55
abeNd-orgoiaohm: even if a company policy says that, management never enforces it. unwilling/spineless management is just as bad as real malwareJun 07 12:55
oiaohmabeNd-org: Problem guess who has the Internet on off switch.Jun 07 12:56
abeNd-orgyes, you do that, said user complains to management, & guess who is in trouble? IT, because you "just turned off the person's ability to work"Jun 07 12:57
MinceRweb filters also hinder/"turn off" the person's ability to workJun 07 12:58
MinceRi've seen a badly configured proxy filter the google results pageJun 07 12:58
MinceR:>Jun 07 12:58
MinceReven though it was aimed at pr0nJun 07 12:58
abeNd-orgid still say a whitelist is the way to go, you *prove* you need the website for work purposesJun 07 12:59
oiaohmabeNd-org: Really that is the funny part.   When its in the company policy.Jun 07 12:59
oiaohmabeNd-org: My  job it to run network to company policy.Jun 07 12:59
abeNd-org9 times out of 10 your martha stewart or fantasy football site isnt going to make the cut :PJun 07 13:00
MinceRproving the website is for work purposes introduces delay and extra administrationJun 07 13:00
oiaohmabeNd-org: Yes meeting to change company police for 1 odd person vs firing them.  Jun 07 13:00
oiaohmabeNd-org: Normally it was a bad move for the person to try to go over my head.Jun 07 13:00
abeNd-orgoiaohm: it is a rare company that even remotely respects ITJun 07 13:01
abeNd-orgmost dontJun 07 13:01
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TechrightsBot-scHello World! I'm TechrightsBot-sc running phIRCe v0.53Jun 07 13:01
oiaohmabeNd-org: Note I point out to boss that person could pay for their own 3g modem.Jun 07 13:01
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Main Page - Techrights .::. Size~: 38.93 KBJun 07 13:01
oiaohmabeNd-org: so while they are banned they are cheaper for the business as well.Jun 07 13:01
oiaohmabeNd-org: Yes I am a BOFH.  That knows that money talks.Jun 07 13:02
abeNd-orggotta love the bofh :) especially when management actually lets them do their jobJun 07 13:04
oiaohmabeNd-org: More I learnt to speak boss.Jun 07 13:04
oiaohmabeNd-org: Until then I could not do my job.Jun 07 13:04
oiaohmabeNd-org: rule one make sure that enforcement equals company cost savings.Jun 07 13:05
oiaohmabeNd-org: rule to make sure that instructions when banned are simple and idiot proff the use the expensive path.Jun 07 13:05
oiaohmResult no problem users game to complain.Jun 07 13:06
oiaohmIt was nice to get asked nicely todo things after i worked out boss.Jun 07 13:06
abeNd-orgyea, most bosses arent willing to listen to IT, since some of the enforcement would mean his losing access to fantasy football at workJun 07 13:07
oiaohmabeNd-org: Note I am a realy a BOFH that has learnt BossJun 07 13:09
oiaohmabeNd-org: So yes I do make it fully appear as cost saving alterations to the rules.Jun 07 13:09
oiaohmThat do result in cost savings.Jun 07 13:09
oiaohmYes I knew exactly how many people were doing stuff wrong before putting them forwards.Jun 07 13:10
oiaohmOne thing you can depend on them not doing is reading all the fine print.Jun 07 13:11
abeNd-orgthere are some boss that refuse to cooperate, sometimes you get the guy who asks why you spend so much money on access points when his linksys at home works great for him, & no amount of education will convince him otherwiseJun 07 13:13
oiaohmNothing strange theirJun 07 13:15
oiaohmAnd its normally a failure to speak boss.Jun 07 13:15
oiaohmLot of times I have been using flashed linksys's in the business anyhow.Jun 07 13:16
abeNd-orgtomato/ddr-wrt?Jun 07 13:17
oiaohmCustom.   abeNd-orgJun 07 13:17
abeNd-orgcant say ive looked into seeing if those allow for roaming between APs, radius, etcJun 07 13:17
oiaohmIe freewrt up basically.  Lot of things are differnet to either Jun 07 13:18
oiaohmLike for one no web interface.Jun 07 13:18
oiaohmInfact no old style ssh either.Jun 07 13:18
oiaohmThey are single packet knock to open the means to send a fresh configuration.Jun 07 13:19
oiaohmAttackers chance of doing something to them is basically nil.Jun 07 13:19
oiaohmI still remember a new staff memember thinking one had to be dead because he could not find a control interface.Jun 07 13:22
abeNd-orgwell, *usually* there would be some https/ssh interface, or if not that, its a dumb access point run by a central controller interfaceJun 07 13:23
oiaohmThese are not dumb but yes are centeral controlled.Jun 07 13:24
oiaohmTurned out the new guy was trying to let a person higher up access just for them.Jun 07 13:25
abeNd-orgso freewrt is centrally managed? slick, i might have to check that outJun 07 13:25
oiaohmabeNd-org: Not by default.Jun 07 13:25
abeNd-orgah, that is some of your custom coding?Jun 07 13:25
oiaohmYep.Jun 07 13:26
oiaohmYes poor attacker to hit these does not know what he is in for.Jun 07 13:26
abeNd-orgwell, not every sysadmin can code up a custom WAP/controller system :PJun 07 13:26
oiaohmCore parts are not my own.Jun 07 13:27
oiaohmLike there are plenty of open source good quality single packet port knocking software that works.Jun 07 13:28
abeNd-orgthen there is also trying to convince *my* boss to try solutions like that, if its not cisco its not an option kinda guyJun 07 13:30
oiaohmFun cfengine is what is pushing out the configurations.  abeNd-orgJun 07 13:32
oiaohmBasically what I am using is prity stock.Jun 07 13:32
oiaohmOther than the fact I hide the cfengine interface.Jun 07 13:33
MinceRlol ciscoJun 07 13:33
oiaohmAnd there is no other interface.Jun 07 13:33
abeNd-orgmeh, i have to head into the office, yay traffic...Jun 07 13:33
abeNd-orghave to talk to you more about alternative wireless solutions when i get a chanceJun 07 13:33
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schestowitz 07 13:44
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Just stare into the teeth. Soon the picture will horrify you. : funny .::. Size~: 79.54 KBJun 07 13:44
oiaohmReally some day what I do with freewrt I really should release.Jun 07 13:45
oiaohmIts simple and provides exact trackablity to who ever stuffed a modem up.Jun 07 13:45
oiaohmIf it was staffJun 07 13:45
oiaohmgreat word swapJun 07 13:46
oiaohmmodem for wireless access pointJun 07 13:46
oiaohmI wish it did modems.Jun 07 13:46
MinceR 07 14:00
TechrightsBot-scTitle: some children are really intelligent ! - Imgur .::. Size~: 9.52 KBJun 07 14:00
oiaohmNice MinceRJun 07 14:05
schestowitz 07 14:19
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Be careful what you post on Facebook [nsfw] - Imgur .::. Size~: 9.22 KBJun 07 14:19
schestowitz 07 14:25
TechrightsBot-sc@FOSSpatents: @stephenrwalli I'm at least 1,000 times more concerned about little app developers (on whatever platform) than the likes of Google Moto HTCJun 07 14:25
schestowitzTalking to MicrosoftersJun 07 14:25
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schestowitz> Hi, Roy,Jun 07 17:03
schestowitz> Jun 07 17:03
schestowitz> After this keynote, I echo RMS' concerns about who owns/controls "TheJun 07 17:03
schestowitz> Cloud".  Despite all the cool syncing it is still about hosted services.Jun 07 17:03
schestowitzApple would sooner or later have mentioned "Cloud" iSomething. I'm not sure what cloud means in this context, but anything in a computer that acts as a service is a 'cloud'. When companies use the word they mean that the distance is increased, e.g. your data is outside the enterprise and obviously outside the computer. RMS cares about the danger of abuse of power by another party, which probably matters more when you are not Jun 07 17:03
schestowitzan obedience Westerner following instructions like a sheep. For everyone else, this 'cloud' thing is a major risk. Even the Hollywood mafia has control over everything. Computers replace people, but are these 'people' whom you can trust? If not, then you remain weak and isolated. Even forming a union becomes a challenge.Jun 07 17:04
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schestowitz> ...where are you on ODF now in general and the FellowshipJun 07 17:14
schestowitz>  Jun 07 17:14
schestowitz> @Roy, a possible concern, something to watch with IBM and the code andJun 07 17:14
schestowitz> controling Oasis TC is this:Jun 07 17:14
schestowitz>  Jun 07 17:14
schestowitz> 07 17:14
schestowitz>  Jun 07 17:14
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Those who forget Santayana… .::. Size~: 56.39 KBJun 07 17:14
schestowitz> "Those who control the exchange format, can control interoperability andJun 07 17:14
schestowitz> turn it on or off like a water faucet to meet their business objectives."Jun 07 17:14
schestowitzHmmm..Jun 07 17:26
schestowitzI partly got into neophilia (following news) because of compile time and having to run large experiments.. all these years later I still do the sameJun 07 17:27
schestowitzJust occurred to meJun 07 17:27
schestowitz 07 18:13
TechrightsBot-scTitle: .:. Lindsey Cormack's Photos - Oh I  think you do - person I just passed on UWS .::. Size~: 26.22 KBJun 07 18:13
schestowitz 07 18:26
TechrightsBot-scTitle: A man was hospitalized with six plastic horses up his ass : funny .::. Size~: 98.52 KBJun 07 18:26
schestowitz 07 18:27
TechrightsBot-scNot a web page! Aborting image/jpeg typeJun 07 18:27
ender_33neophilia?Jun 07 18:58
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schestowitzyou kno what philia means, right?Jun 07 19:22
schestowitz 07 19:23
TechrightsBot-scTitle: Neophile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 29.1 KBJun 07 19:23
schestowitz"Neophile or Neophiliac is a term used by counterculture cult writer Robert Anton Wilson to describe a particular type of personality. A neophile or neophiliac can be defined as a personality type characterized by a strong affinity for novelty. The phrase was used earlier by Christopher Booker in his book The Neophiliacs (1969)."Jun 07 19:23
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