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| schestowitz | [03:47] <msb_> Hello | Jul 11 03:53 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz |  | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | [03:49] <msb_> Roy, if you have "Snit" on Techbytes: He claims that he's not anti-Linux, but he's always saying that the DEs and various apps have inconsistent UIs, and are therefore very difficult for people to use. | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | [03:49] <msb_> I think he also says there should only be one distro and one DE, etcc. | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | [03:50] <msb_> He also does forget and spews really anti-Linux stuff sometimes. | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | [03:50] <msb_> Maybe multiple MS agents use the same posting Identity. | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | [03:52] <schestowitz> It's not impossible | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: why PM? | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | It's not really sensitive | Jul 11 03:53 |
| msb_ | OK | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | Although I realise Tim is for it | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | I don't know why he bothers inviting anti-Linux trolls | Jul 11 03:53 |
| msb_ | Anyhow, it's just another type of propaganda for discouraging people from using Linux. | Jul 11 03:53 |
| schestowitz | It's like inviting Bush to Democracy Now | Jul 11 03:54 |
| msb_ | Better to have the guy who used to whisper stuff in Bush's ear via radio. | Jul 11 03:55 |
| schestowitz | Popoff's wife? ;-) | Jul 11 03:56 |
| msb_ | There were pictures of the thin radio under his shirt between his shoulder blades. Then, in France, I think, where different frequencies are used, some of the techs picked up and broadcasted the prompting transmissions. | Jul 11 03:59 |
| msb_ | It was very embarassing, but the media buried it after a couple of days. | Jul 11 03:59 |
| msb_ | This was GW Bush. | Jul 11 03:59 |
| schestowitz | I have a question | Jul 11 04:03 |
| schestowitz | I listen to 3 recent sketoid episodes today | Jul 11 04:03 |
| schestowitz | And he mentioned Ike in one | Jul 11 04:03 |
| schestowitz | he said he believed some politicians were reptilian alienoids or whatever | Jul 11 04:03 |
| schestowitz | But I don't know if that's a lie that they paint on him | Jul 11 04:03 |
| schestowitz | I care about what's true about people, just wanted to know if he genuinely believed that | Jul 11 04:04 |
| msb_ | Never heard of "sketoid". Is that spelled right? | Jul 11 04:04 |
| schestowitz | http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4264 | Jul 11 04:04 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Conspiracy Theorists Aren't Crazy .::. Size~: 38.65 KB | Jul 11 04:04 |
| schestowitz | msb_: with typo | Jul 11 04:04 |
| schestowitz | In the past he said "Ick" | Jul 11 04:05 |
| schestowitz | Didn't pronounce it right | Jul 11 04:05 |
| schestowitz | I know these people tend to misportray theorists, whom I don't agree with anyway | Jul 11 04:05 |
| schestowitz | But I wanted to see if they play fair or make stuff up about the claims | Jul 11 04:05 |
| msb_ | OK, I'm not familiar with Brian Dunning. | Jul 11 04:06 |
| schestowitz | AFAIK, Icke does the whole reptile idiocy... blue blood and that bollox | Jul 11 04:06 |
| schestowitz | ender says it's maybe a metaphor | Jul 11 04:06 |
| schestowitz | and the whole "alien reptile" sounds like total fabricatin | Jul 11 04:06 |
| schestowitz | Combining two insanities into one | Jul 11 04:06 |
| schestowitz | msb_: he has a good show | Jul 11 04:07 |
| schestowitz | You should listen to some | Jul 11 04:07 |
| schestowitz | He also debunked the 9/11 claims in some episodes, addressing common "truths" that you pass around | Jul 11 04:07 |
| schestowitz | But the rest is a lot about medicine | Jul 11 04:08 |
| schestowitz | UFOs | Jul 11 04:08 |
| schestowitz | chmtrail | Jul 11 04:08 |
| schestowitz | And other stuff that I sometimes didn't know exist even as a theory | Jul 11 04:08 |
| msb_ | But David Icke wrote a whole book -- _The Biggest Secret_ -- about reptilian aliens having visited Earth thousands of years ago. | Jul 11 04:11 |
| msb_ | And that some may still be here, or human-reptilian hybrids may be here. | Jul 11 04:11 |
| msb_ | This agrees with the Sumerian writings that talk about the Anunnaki -- tall reptilian aliens. They are very detailed writings. | Jul 11 04:11 |
| msb_ | I don't recall David Icke saying he'd seen reptilians himself, but various people have come to him and said that they have. | Jul 11 04:11 |
| msb_ | There's nothing particularly impossible about this. (Unlike people living 10 miles below the Earth's surface.) | Jul 11 04:11 |
| msb_ | With all the saucer and alien sightings by reputable people -- cops, pilots, etc -- its unlikely that we're alone in the universe. | Jul 11 04:11 |
| msb_ | You can choose to call some people's whole fields of research "idiocy". I regard them as interesting possibilities. | Jul 11 04:13 |
| msb_ | The idea (or meta-idea) that any ideas that differ much from the mainstream are necessarily "idiocy", is guaranteed to lead one astray. | Jul 11 04:15 |
| msb_ | Every important scientific idea, and many important political ideas, were considered idiocy at first, and some still are by many, even though some know them to be true. | Jul 11 04:16 |
| msb_ | One can't determine truth by a majority vote. | Jul 11 04:16 |
| msb_ | Epistemology is complex and often tricky. | Jul 11 04:17 |
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| schestowitz | this is different | Jul 11 04:17 |
| schestowitz | these ones defy what we know as obeying laws of nature | Jul 11 04:17 |
| schestowitz | See this one (or listen to it) | Jul 11 04:17 |
| msb_ | Which ones? | Jul 11 04:17 |
| schestowitz | http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4261 | Jul 11 04:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Near Death Experiences .::. Size~: 41.86 KB | Jul 11 04:18 |
| schestowitz | doesn't comply with rules we have | Jul 11 04:18 |
| schestowitz | listen to the first minute or so | Jul 11 04:18 |
| schestowitz | He puts it well | Jul 11 04:18 |
| msb_ | Robert Monroe wrote three excellent books, that began with OOBEs and went on from there. Some of the OOBE observations -- stuff that could not have been known in any other way -- were validated by another consciousness research -- maybe Charles Tart. | Jul 11 04:21 |
| msb_ | research --> researcher | Jul 11 04:21 |
| msb_ | I think there's a disconnect -- a gap -- in how our brains produce the experience of consciousness -- the sensorium, etc. | Jul 11 04:23 |
| schestowitz | you have to define these terms | Jul 11 04:23 |
| msb_ | If our brains are just organic analog/digital computers, can a sufficiently complex computer experience consciousness like we do? | Jul 11 04:23 |
| msb_ | I experience the world around me and inside me. I'm pretty sure my PC does not. | Jul 11 04:24 |
| msb_ | I feel, see, hear, know, think. These are activities and experiences. | Jul 11 04:25 |
| msb_ | If my entire brain were copied as a system of gate arrays, would it feel? Would it experience? | Jul 11 04:26 |
| schestowitz | you don;t feel | Jul 11 04:27 |
| schestowitz | You process | Jul 11 04:27 |
| schestowitz | this is why you need to define terms like "feel" | Jul 11 04:27 |
| schestowitz | you have sensory systems like eyes and nerves | Jul 11 04:27 |
| schestowitz | We know how they can be 'turned off' for example | Jul 11 04:27 |
| schestowitz | On silicon we can do some better things than biology, but sometimes biology is ahead of wafers (mostly 2-D with lots of copy and paste work) | Jul 11 04:28 |
| msb_ | There may be an additional component to us beyond the physical cells, which would account for precognition (which I have experienced), and telepathy, clairvoyance or astral travel/OOBE, etc. | Jul 11 04:28 |
| schestowitz | do just evolved apes like us have this in your opinion? | Jul 11 04:29 |
| msb_ | IOW, Does a cat have the Buddha Nature? | Jul 11 04:29 |
| schestowitz | If not, how far back into our ancestry does it run? The same organism as us used to live in caves before we mastered education, then indutrial revolution... | Jul 11 04:30 |
| schestowitz | Buddha is mostly a metaphor, not a deity | Jul 11 04:30 |
| msb_ | I think some people have free will and some don't. | Jul 11 04:30 |
| msb_ | So this sentience may vary also. | Jul 11 04:30 |
| msb_ | Buddhism is about states of consciousness, integration, morality, etc., not deities, afaik. | Jul 11 04:31 |
| msb_ | If we are both using the words in the same way, consciousness/experience is much more than processing. | Jul 11 04:33 |
| msb_ | A video camera processes light and sound, but it doesn't feel or experience anything. | Jul 11 04:33 |
| msb_ | I think that almost everyone on Earth would say that they _do_ feel things, except maybe psychopaths/sociopaths, but they would lie and say they do, and behaviorists. | Jul 11 04:36 |
| schestowitz | [04:33] <msb_> A video camera processes light and sound, but it doesn't feel or experience anything. | Jul 11 04:38 |
| schestowitz | neither do we | Jul 11 04:38 |
| schestowitz | it's our interpretation of ir | Jul 11 04:38 |
| schestowitz | when you see everything upside down (as you do), you don't think of it | Jul 11 04:38 |
| schestowitz | it's built in | Jul 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | It's machanical almost | Jul 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | Same for stereo vision | Jul 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | "feel" is just another word for "sense" | Jul 11 04:39 |
| schestowitz | like "human" to "animal" and "beef" to "cow" | Jul 11 04:40 |
| msb_ | OK, if you want to emphasize that what we experience is the processed sense-organ outputs as they arrive at cortical areas, fine. But we do experience that, we don't just process it like, e.g., a computer running an FFT program would. | Jul 11 04:41 |
| msb_ | Do you believe in the behaviorist paradigm? | Jul 11 04:42 |
| msb_ | Do you actually not experience the feelings of life within you? | Jul 11 04:43 |
| msb_ | Do you squirm when someone tickles you? Or do you just sit still and "process" it? | Jul 11 04:46 |
| schestowitz | animals all do that | Jul 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | It's part of the defence mechanisms we evolved to have | Jul 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | Without pain, we might die | Jul 11 04:47 |
| schestowitz | We need backache to tell us to change posture | Jul 11 04:48 |
| schestowitz | and to evade tickling or similar forms of contact | Jul 11 04:48 |
| schestowitz | feeling of life and desire to survive is innate in all organisms, germs too | Jul 11 04:48 |
| msb_ | I don't think I've ever before met such an extreme reductionist! | Jul 11 04:48 |
| schestowitz | what is not correct? | Jul 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | you want hilism? | Jul 11 04:49 |
| schestowitz | Say the body is just a tool for DNA to spread itself, like a shell | Jul 11 04:49 |
| msb_ | "nihilism" ? | Jul 11 04:50 |
| schestowitz | Or that we are dust put together in particular order | Jul 11 04:50 |
| schestowitz | yes, typo | Jul 11 04:50 |
| schestowitz | I sit weirdly at the moment | Jul 11 04:50 |
| msb_ | No, I think those are the paradigms that you have been espousing here. | Jul 11 04:50 |
| schestowitz | getting ready to go catch the train | Jul 11 04:51 |
| schestowitz | London... | Jul 11 04:51 |
| msb_ | I feel I am an organic, and often unified being, who experiences being alive. | Jul 11 04:51 |
| msb_ | Have a good trip! | Jul 11 04:51 |
| msb_ | Wilhelm Reich comes closest to expressing my experience/model/paradigm. | Jul 11 04:52 |
| msb_ | The doings of "Data" the android on STTNG, are all about these matters. | Jul 11 04:53 |
| schestowitz | i'm partly tongue in cheeck here | Jul 11 05:11 |
| schestowitz | pulling a leg | Jul 11 05:11 |
| schestowitz | don't really view things so mechanically | Jul 11 05:12 |
| schestowitz | banter is fun | Jul 11 05:12 |
| schestowitz | see you later | Jul 11 05:12 |
| schestowitz | gotta go to work now | Jul 11 05:12 |
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| MinceR | http://redd.it/ilxh5 | Jul 11 17:35 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Tried a new tactic on coworker. via reddit.com .::. Size~: 1.63 KB | Jul 11 17:35 |
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| ender_33 | <schestowitz> Not sure if it's real [Jul 08 01:08] | Jul 11 22:14 |
| ender_33 | you didn't answer my question | Jul 11 22:14 |
| ender_33 | how are you sure anything is real? | Jul 11 22:15 |
| schestowitz | define real | Jul 11 22:55 |
| schestowitz | observable to us? | Jul 11 22:56 |
| schestowitz | to instruments built by us? | Jul 11 22:56 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: too long | Jul 11 23:07 |
| schestowitz | I always choose the #funny ones that are good for lazy people like me :-) | Jul 11 23:07 |
| MinceR | pft | Jul 11 23:11 |
| schestowitz | [23:14] <phIRCe-local> Hello World! I'm phIRCe-local running phIRCe v0.3 | Jul 11 23:15 |
| schestowitz | [23:14] <schestowitz> http://example.org | Jul 11 23:15 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: IANA — Example domains .::. Size~: 2.88 KB | Jul 11 23:15 |
| schestowitz | [23:14] <phIRCe-local> Title: IANA — Example domains .::. Size~: 2.72 KB | Jul 11 23:15 |
| schestowitz | [23:15] <schestowitz> !google test | Jul 11 23:15 |
| schestowitz | [23:15] <schestowitz> Hmm.. I use an old version | Jul 11 23:15 |
| schestowitz | Just installed tony's s/w at work | Jul 11 23:15 |
| schestowitz | our mate tony made the software | Jul 11 23:16 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/78551597 | Jul 11 23:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | @silner (silner)'s status on Monday, 11-Jul-11 14:47:11 UTC - Identi.ca: Boycott Novell Concluded /by @schestowitz http://ur1.ca/4ocb5 « I bet this has been posted loads, but I only just caught it | Jul 11 23:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Boycott Novell Concluded | Techrights .::. Size~: 84.55 KB | Jul 11 23:17 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't seem like I got answers on a Sunday | Jul 11 23:20 |
| schestowitz | So I guess I'll track Novell news for a whole longer | Jul 11 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | .me slept on train | Jul 11 23:27 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/iphigenie/status/90305241844682752?iid=am-209358414613103654222483764&nid=4&uid=26603208 | Jul 11 23:30 |
| TechrightsSocial | @iphigenie: @schestowitz What did I miss, is Ms paying universities, cash? | Jul 11 23:30 |
| schestowitz | I've heard that it does | Jul 11 23:31 |
| schestowitz | But didn't see the article | Jul 11 23:31 |
| schestowitz | something about a quarter of a million to make students microdrones | Jul 11 23:31 |
| schestowitz | we get all the rain :-) | Jul 11 23:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2011-07-11-005-41-OS-NV-0000 | Jul 11 23:34 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Linux Today - Boycott Novell Concluded .::. Size~: 59.32 KB | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | " | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Can we leave it aside now and concentrate on other issue a little more?" | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Roy Schestowitz has put the most time and effort of anybody into the effort to break the Microsoft-Novell agreement so he is the most likely voice to declare the boycott Novell movement finished. My thoughts on the status of the boycott are: | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | When Attachmate killed the Mono project that removed one of our two principle problems with Novell. Mono is a dead issue. | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Our other principle problem with Novell is the Microsoft-Novell agreement, especially as it dealt with software patents. Attachmate has issued a general statement that they would honor all of the Novell commitments so that agreement is still in force and still applies to software distributed by SuSE. I think that we should continue the boycott until SuSE issues an acceptable statement that they are no longer bound by the | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | terms of the Microsoft-Novell agreement, especially the terms relating to software patents. | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | All of the bad things that have happened to Novell, Ron Hovsepian, and the others are merely collateral damage to the boycott (and in all honesty the boycott was only one of several factors that brought Novell down). We would have been quite satisfied with killing Mono and destroying the Microsoft-Novell agreement without any personnel changes at Novell or monetary punishment for Novell. | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | I think that we should continue the boycott, marking time so to speak, until SuSE issues an acceptable statement that they are no longer bound by the terms of the Microsoft-Novell agreement, especially the terms relating to software patents. But yes, we have won and we are only marking time until SuSE figures out a way to get rid of the Microsoft-Novell agreement. | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | ------------------------- | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Steve Stites | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | " | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Turns out we made the front page of Linux Today | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | But it's not a major story really | Jul 11 23:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2011-07-11-005-41-OS-NV&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+LinuxToday+%2528Linux+Today%2529 | Jul 11 23:35 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Linux Today - Boycott Novell Concluded .::. Size~: 62.57 KB | Jul 11 23:35 |
| schestowitz | Cool, many links in twitter too | Jul 11 23:35 |
| schestowitz | it does rain a lot here. It's not so fun when you need to go outside. | Jul 11 23:48 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/FOSSForce/statuses/90481744758845440 | Jul 11 23:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | @FOSSForce: Boycott Novell sings "Happy Trails." http://ht.ly/5By1U | Jul 11 23:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: http://techrights.org/2011/07/10/moving-on/ .::. Size~: 4.12 KB | Jul 11 23:49 |
| schestowitz | " We are nearly finished " | Jul 11 23:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/it_management/2011071100541OSNV | Jul 11 23:50 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Linux Today - Boycott Novell Concluded .::. Size~: 61.45 KB | Jul 11 23:50 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/muktware/statuses/90453518305067008 | Jul 11 23:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | @muktware: To Defend #Android #Google Must Attack Software Patents http://is.gd/Taykc6 #swpats #microsoft #oracle #apple @google | Jul 11 23:54 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/lawdit_legal/statuses/90446284774834176 | Jul 11 23:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Hack Sheet: To Defend Android Google Must Attack Software Patents | Muktware .::. Size~: 21.14 KB | Jul 11 23:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | @lawdit_legal: @glynmoody A post on Google's official blog suggests they're moving in the opposite direction http://t.co/0l8hdkG #swpats | Jul 11 23:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Official Google Blog: Patents and innovation .::. Size~: 34.68 KB | Jul 11 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Google taken over by patent lawyers | Jul 11 23:54 |
| schestowitz | stupid... | Jul 11 23:54 |
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