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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: July 11th, 2011

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schestowitz[03:47] <msb_> HelloJul 11 03:53
schestowitzJul 11 03:53
schestowitz[03:49] <msb_> Roy, if you have "Snit" on Techbytes:  He claims that he's not anti-Linux, but he's always saying that the DEs and various apps have inconsistent UIs, and are therefore very difficult for people to use.Jul 11 03:53
schestowitz[03:49] <msb_> I think he also says there should only be one distro and one DE, etcc.Jul 11 03:53
schestowitz[03:50] <msb_> He also does forget and spews really anti-Linux stuff sometimes.Jul 11 03:53
schestowitz[03:50] <msb_> Maybe multiple MS agents use the same posting Identity.Jul 11 03:53
schestowitz[03:52] <schestowitz> It's not impossibleJul 11 03:53
schestowitzMinceR: why PM?Jul 11 03:53
schestowitzIt's not really sensitiveJul 11 03:53
msb_OKJul 11 03:53
schestowitzAlthough I realise Tim is for itJul 11 03:53
schestowitzI don't know why he bothers inviting anti-Linux trollsJul 11 03:53
msb_Anyhow, it's just another type of propaganda for discouraging people from using Linux.Jul 11 03:53
schestowitzIt's like inviting Bush to Democracy NowJul 11 03:54
msb_Better to have the guy who used to whisper stuff in Bush's ear via radio.Jul 11 03:55
schestowitzPopoff's wife? ;-)Jul 11 03:56
msb_There were pictures of the thin radio under his shirt between his shoulder blades.  Then, in France, I think, where different frequencies are used, some of the techs picked up and broadcasted the prompting transmissions.  Jul 11 03:59
msb_It was very embarassing, but the media buried it after a couple of days.Jul 11 03:59
msb_This was GW Bush.Jul 11 03:59
schestowitzI  have a questionJul 11 04:03
schestowitzI listen to 3 recent sketoid episodes todayJul 11 04:03
schestowitzAnd he mentioned Ike in oneJul 11 04:03
schestowitzhe said he believed some politicians were reptilian alienoids or whateverJul 11 04:03
schestowitzBut I don't know if that's a lie that they paint on himJul 11 04:03
schestowitzI care about what's true about people, just wanted to know if he genuinely believed thatJul 11 04:04
msb_Never heard of "sketoid".  Is that spelled right?Jul 11 04:04
schestowitz 11 04:04
TechrightsSocialTitle: Conspiracy Theorists Aren't Crazy .::. Size~: 38.65 KBJul 11 04:04
schestowitzmsb_: with typoJul 11 04:04
schestowitzIn the past he said "Ick"Jul 11 04:05
schestowitzDidn't pronounce it rightJul 11 04:05
schestowitzI know these people tend to misportray theorists, whom I don't agree with anywayJul 11 04:05
schestowitzBut I wanted to see if they play fair or make stuff up about the claimsJul 11 04:05
msb_OK, I'm not familiar with Brian Dunning.Jul 11 04:06
schestowitzAFAIK, Icke does the whole reptile idiocy... blue blood and that bolloxJul 11 04:06
schestowitzender says it's maybe a metaphorJul 11 04:06
schestowitzand the whole "alien reptile" sounds like total fabricatinJul 11 04:06
schestowitzCombining two insanities into oneJul 11 04:06
schestowitzmsb_: he has a good showJul 11 04:07
schestowitzYou should listen to someJul 11 04:07
schestowitzHe also debunked the 9/11 claims in some episodes, addressing common "truths" that you pass aroundJul 11 04:07
schestowitzBut the rest is a lot about medicineJul 11 04:08
schestowitzUFOsJul 11 04:08
schestowitzchmtrailJul 11 04:08
schestowitzAnd other stuff that I sometimes didn't know exist even as a theoryJul 11 04:08
msb_But David Icke wrote a whole book -- _The Biggest Secret_ -- about reptilian aliens having visited Earth thousands of years ago.Jul 11 04:11
msb_And that some may still be here, or human-reptilian hybrids may be here.Jul 11 04:11
msb_This agrees with the Sumerian writings that talk about the Anunnaki -- tall reptilian aliens.  They are very detailed writings.Jul 11 04:11
msb_I don't recall David Icke saying he'd seen reptilians himself, but various people have come to him and said that they have.Jul 11 04:11
msb_There's nothing particularly impossible about this.  (Unlike people living 10 miles below the Earth's surface.)Jul 11 04:11
msb_With all the saucer and alien sightings by reputable people -- cops, pilots, etc -- its unlikely that we're alone in the universe.Jul 11 04:11
msb_You can choose to call some people's whole fields of research "idiocy".  I regard them as interesting possibilities.Jul 11 04:13
msb_The idea (or meta-idea) that any ideas that differ much from the mainstream are necessarily "idiocy", is guaranteed to lead one astray.Jul 11 04:15
msb_Every important scientific idea, and many important political ideas, were considered idiocy at first, and some still are by many, even though some know them to be true.Jul 11 04:16
msb_One can't determine truth by a majority vote.Jul 11 04:16
msb_Epistemology is complex and often tricky.Jul 11 04:17
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schestowitzthis is differentJul 11 04:17
schestowitzthese ones defy what we know as obeying laws of natureJul 11 04:17
schestowitzSee this one (or listen to it)Jul 11 04:17
msb_Which ones?Jul 11 04:17
schestowitz 11 04:17
TechrightsSocialTitle: Near Death Experiences .::. Size~: 41.86 KBJul 11 04:18
schestowitzdoesn't comply with rules we haveJul 11 04:18
schestowitzlisten to the first minute or soJul 11 04:18
schestowitzHe puts it wellJul 11 04:18
msb_Robert Monroe wrote three excellent books, that began with OOBEs and went on from there.  Some of the OOBE observations -- stuff that could not have been known in any other way -- were validated by another consciousness research -- maybe Charles Tart.Jul 11 04:21
msb_research --> researcherJul 11 04:21
msb_I think there's a disconnect -- a gap -- in how our brains produce the experience of consciousness -- the sensorium, etc.Jul 11 04:23
schestowitzyou have to define these termsJul 11 04:23
msb_If our brains are just organic analog/digital computers, can a sufficiently complex computer experience consciousness like we do?Jul 11 04:23
msb_I experience the world around me and inside me.  I'm pretty sure my PC does not.Jul 11 04:24
msb_I feel, see, hear, know, think.  These are activities and experiences.Jul 11 04:25
msb_If my entire brain were copied as a system of gate arrays, would it feel?  Would it experience?Jul 11 04:26
schestowitzyou don;t feelJul 11 04:27
schestowitzYou processJul 11 04:27
schestowitzthis is why you need to define terms like "feel"Jul 11 04:27
schestowitzyou have sensory systems like eyes and nervesJul 11 04:27
schestowitzWe know how they can be 'turned off' for exampleJul 11 04:27
schestowitzOn silicon we can do some better things than biology, but sometimes biology is ahead of wafers (mostly 2-D with lots of copy and paste work)Jul 11 04:28
msb_There may be an additional component to us beyond the physical cells, which would account for precognition (which I have experienced), and telepathy, clairvoyance or astral travel/OOBE, etc.Jul 11 04:28
schestowitzdo just evolved apes like us have this in your opinion?Jul 11 04:29
msb_IOW, Does a cat have the Buddha Nature?Jul 11 04:29
schestowitzIf not, how far back into our ancestry does it run? The same organism as us used to live in caves before we mastered education, then indutrial revolution...Jul 11 04:30
schestowitzBuddha is mostly a metaphor, not a deityJul 11 04:30
msb_I think some people have free will and some don't.  Jul 11 04:30
msb_So this sentience may vary also.Jul 11 04:30
msb_Buddhism is about states of consciousness, integration, morality, etc., not deities, afaik.Jul 11 04:31
msb_If we are both using the words in the same way, consciousness/experience is much more than processing.Jul 11 04:33
msb_A video camera processes light and sound, but it doesn't feel or experience anything.Jul 11 04:33
msb_I think that almost everyone on Earth would say that they _do_ feel things, except maybe psychopaths/sociopaths, but they would lie and say they do, and behaviorists.Jul 11 04:36
schestowitz[04:33] <msb_> A video camera processes light and sound, but it doesn't feel or experience anything.Jul 11 04:38
schestowitzneither do weJul 11 04:38
schestowitzit's our interpretation of irJul 11 04:38
schestowitzwhen you see everything upside down (as you do), you don't think of itJul 11 04:38
schestowitzit's built inJul 11 04:39
schestowitzIt's machanical almostJul 11 04:39
schestowitzSame for stereo visionJul 11 04:39
schestowitz"feel" is just another word for "sense"Jul 11 04:39
schestowitzlike "human" to "animal" and "beef" to "cow"Jul 11 04:40
msb_OK, if you want to emphasize that what we experience is the processed sense-organ outputs as they arrive at cortical areas, fine.  But we do experience that, we don't just process it like, e.g., a computer running an  FFT program would.Jul 11 04:41
msb_Do you believe in the behaviorist paradigm?Jul 11 04:42
msb_Do you actually not experience the feelings of life within you?Jul 11 04:43
msb_Do you squirm when someone tickles you?  Or do you just sit still and "process" it?Jul 11 04:46
schestowitzanimals all do thatJul 11 04:47
schestowitzIt's part of the defence mechanisms we evolved to haveJul 11 04:47
schestowitzWithout pain, we might dieJul 11 04:47
schestowitzWe need backache to tell us to change postureJul 11 04:48
schestowitzand to evade tickling or similar forms of contactJul 11 04:48
schestowitzfeeling of life and desire to survive is innate in all organisms, germs tooJul 11 04:48
msb_I don't think I've ever before met such an extreme reductionist!Jul 11 04:48
schestowitzwhat is not correct?Jul 11 04:49
schestowitzyou want hilism?Jul 11 04:49
schestowitzSay the body is just a tool for DNA to spread itself, like a shellJul 11 04:49
msb_"nihilism" ?Jul 11 04:50
schestowitzOr that we are dust put together in particular orderJul 11 04:50
schestowitzyes, typoJul 11 04:50
schestowitzI sit weirdly at the momentJul 11 04:50
msb_No, I think those are the paradigms that you have been espousing here.Jul 11 04:50
schestowitzgetting ready to go catch the trainJul 11 04:51
schestowitzLondon...Jul 11 04:51
msb_I feel I am an organic, and often unified being, who experiences being alive.Jul 11 04:51
msb_Have a good trip!Jul 11 04:51
msb_Wilhelm Reich comes closest to expressing my experience/model/paradigm.Jul 11 04:52
msb_The doings of "Data" the android on STTNG, are all about these matters.Jul 11 04:53
schestowitzi'm partly tongue in cheeck hereJul 11 05:11
schestowitzpulling a legJul 11 05:11
schestowitzdon't really view things so mechanicallyJul 11 05:12
schestowitzbanter is funJul 11 05:12
schestowitzsee you laterJul 11 05:12
schestowitzgotta go to work nowJul 11 05:12
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MinceR 11 17:35
TechrightsSocialTitle: Tried a new tactic on coworker. via .::. Size~: 1.63 KBJul 11 17:35
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ender_33<schestowitz> Not sure if it's real [Jul 08 01:08]Jul 11 22:14
ender_33you didn't answer my questionJul 11 22:14
ender_33how are you sure anything is real?Jul 11 22:15
schestowitzdefine realJul 11 22:55
schestowitzobservable to us?Jul 11 22:56
schestowitzto instruments built by us?Jul 11 22:56
schestowitzMinceR: too longJul 11 23:07
schestowitzI always choose the #funny ones that are good for lazy people like me :-)Jul 11 23:07
MinceRpftJul 11 23:11
schestowitz[23:14] <phIRCe-local> Hello World! I'm phIRCe-local running phIRCe v0.3Jul 11 23:15
schestowitz[23:14] <schestowitz> http://example.orgJul 11 23:15
TechrightsSocialTitle: IANA — Example domains .::. Size~: 2.88 KBJul 11 23:15
schestowitz[23:14] <phIRCe-local> Title: IANA &mdash; Example domains .::. Size~: 2.72 KBJul 11 23:15
schestowitz[23:15] <schestowitz> !google testJul 11 23:15
schestowitz[23:15] <schestowitz> Hmm.. I use an old versionJul 11 23:15
schestowitzJust installed tony's s/w at workJul 11 23:15
schestowitzour mate tony made the softwareJul 11 23:16
schestowitz 11 23:17
TechrightsSocial@silner (silner)'s status on Monday, 11-Jul-11 14:47:11 UTC - Boycott Novell Concluded /by @schestowitz « I bet this has been posted loads, but I only just caught itJul 11 23:17
TechrightsSocial-> Title: Boycott Novell Concluded | Techrights .::. Size~: 84.55 KBJul 11 23:17
schestowitzDoesn't seem like I got answers on a SundayJul 11 23:20
schestowitzSo I guess I'll track Novell news for a whole longerJul 11 23:20
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schestowitz 11 23:30
TechrightsSocial@iphigenie: @schestowitz What did I miss, is Ms paying universities, cash?Jul 11 23:30
schestowitzI've heard that it doesJul 11 23:31
schestowitzBut didn't see the articleJul 11 23:31
schestowitzsomething about a quarter of a million to make students microdronesJul 11 23:31
schestowitzwe get all the rain :-)Jul 11 23:31
schestowitz 11 23:34
TechrightsSocialTitle: Linux Today - Boycott Novell Concluded .::. Size~: 59.32 KBJul 11 23:34
schestowitz"Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzCan we leave it aside now and concentrate on other issue a little more?"Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzRoy Schestowitz has put the most time and effort of anybody into the effort to break the Microsoft-Novell agreement so he is the most likely voice to declare the boycott Novell movement finished. My thoughts on the status of the boycott are:Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzWhen Attachmate killed the Mono project that removed one of our two principle problems with Novell. Mono is a dead issue.Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzOur other principle problem with Novell is the Microsoft-Novell agreement, especially as it dealt with software patents. Attachmate has issued a general statement that they would honor all of the Novell commitments so that agreement is still in force and still applies to software distributed by SuSE. I think that we should continue the boycott until SuSE issues an acceptable statement that they are no longer bound by the Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzterms of the Microsoft-Novell agreement, especially the terms relating to software patents.Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzAll of the bad things that have happened to Novell, Ron Hovsepian, and the others are merely collateral damage to the boycott (and in all honesty the boycott was only one of several factors that brought Novell down). We would have been quite satisfied with killing Mono and destroying the Microsoft-Novell agreement without any personnel changes at Novell or monetary punishment for Novell.Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzI think that we should continue the boycott, marking time so to speak, until SuSE issues an acceptable statement that they are no longer bound by the terms of the Microsoft-Novell agreement, especially the terms relating to software patents. But yes, we have won and we are only marking time until SuSE figures out a way to get rid of the Microsoft-Novell agreement.Jul 11 23:34
schestowitz-------------------------Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzSteve Stites Jul 11 23:34
schestowitz"Jul 11 23:34
schestowitzTurns out we made the front page of Linux TodayJul 11 23:34
schestowitzBut it's not a major story reallyJul 11 23:34
schestowitz 11 23:35
TechrightsSocialTitle: Linux Today - Boycott Novell Concluded .::. Size~: 62.57 KBJul 11 23:35
schestowitzCool, many links in twitter tooJul 11 23:35
schestowitzit does rain a lot here. It's not so fun when you need to go outside.Jul 11 23:48
schestowitz 11 23:49
TechrightsSocial@FOSSForce: Boycott Novell sings "Happy Trails." 11 23:49
TechrightsSocial-> Title: .::. Size~: 4.12 KBJul 11 23:49
schestowitz"  We are nearly finished  "Jul 11 23:50
schestowitz 11 23:50
TechrightsSocialTitle: Linux Today - Boycott Novell Concluded .::. Size~: 61.45 KBJul 11 23:50
schestowitz 11 23:54
TechrightsSocial@muktware: To Defend #Android #Google Must Attack Software Patents #swpats #microsoft #oracle #apple @googleJul 11 23:54
schestowitz 11 23:54
TechrightsSocial-> Title: Hack Sheet: To Defend Android Google Must Attack Software Patents | Muktware .::. Size~: 21.14 KBJul 11 23:54
TechrightsSocial@lawdit_legal: @glynmoody A post on Google's official blog suggests they're moving in the opposite direction #swpatsJul 11 23:54
TechrightsSocial-> Title: Official Google Blog: Patents and innovation .::. Size~: 34.68 KBJul 11 23:54
schestowitzGoogle taken over by patent lawyersJul 11 23:54
schestowitzstupid...Jul 11 23:54

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