Join us now at the IRC channel.
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: | Aug 21 00:21 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | >> That looks brilliant so far. I want you to have full editorial control | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | >> over it. I will only help by continuing to work on other months (to | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | >> avoid conflicting or duplicate work), the important thing is that this | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | >> gets documented and organised. It sure makes a difference. | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > I was a bit optimistic. Work and news got busy and I only got a chance to | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > look at things a little more. I've got a certification test at the end of the | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > week and will have to scale back on news links too, despite all of the | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > interesting news about HP. | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > What I really regret is not having time to get to the local library where | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > Gates donated equipment. If they left any paperwork behind it would be very | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > revealing. The library hours are quite restrictive and I'd have to take time | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > off work to get there and I doubt I'll find anything. I'm sure that I would not | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > be able to get anything out of the librarian in xxxx who told me the | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > details of his Microsoft library deployment which forbade free software on all | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > donated equipment. The equipment bought his loyalty and he felt like the | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > state had let him down. The library here is probably similar but I want to | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | > get there one day. | Aug 21 00:21 |
| schestowitz | It sounds like auditing would require a lot of extra effort. What Techrights can do is publish links, as you did, to scandals that deserve attention. Is the listing of events from Seattle sort of complete or is it work in progress? I have gradually resumed my tracking of that blog. | Aug 21 00:22 |
| *sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 00:50 | |
| sebsebseb | Aug 21 00:50 | |
| schestowitz | > The listing of events is a work in progress but it's easy enough to figure | Aug 21 00:51 |
| schestowitz | > where I stopped because it is in chronological order. | Aug 21 00:51 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 00:51 |
| schestowitz | > If I dig up any paper at the library, I'd do a preliminary write up and send | Aug 21 00:51 |
| schestowitz | > images for publication. The community would take it apart better than any one | Aug 21 00:51 |
| schestowitz | > person can. Finding anything is a long shot because Microsoft is so sleazy. | Aug 21 00:51 |
| *abeNd-org has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | Aug 21 05:13 | |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Aug 21 06:46 | |
| schestowitz | This will be a potluck event because neither Gates nor Broad are funding this shindig. | Aug 21 11:01 |
| schestowitz | https://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/party-at-my-place/ | Aug 21 11:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Party At My Place! | Seattle Education .::. Size~: 387.87 KB | Aug 21 11:02 |
| schestowitz | http://gateskeepers.civiblog.org/blog/_archives/2011/3/14/4771278.html | Aug 21 11:20 |
| schestowitz | "“The biggest impact per dollar is helping out the poorest.” Where did Bill pull out this amazing 'metric' from? Why has nothing been published on it? Is it possible that he just made it up? Or is he finally listening to Pablo Eisenberg?" | Aug 21 11:20 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Gates Keepers :: Did the Chair of the Gates Foundation make up a metric? .::. Size~: 20.73 KB | Aug 21 11:20 |
| schestowitz | Blech. | Aug 21 11:20 |
| *schestowitz has quit (Quit: Konversation term) | Aug 21 14:05 | |
| -NickServ-schestowitz!~schestowi@host109-156-94-222.range109-156.btcentralplus.com has just authenticated as you (schestowitz) | Aug 21 14:01 | |
| *schestowitz (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 14:01 | |
| *abeNd-org (~KKlenke@tx-71-53-86-203.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 14:54 | |
| *abeNd-org has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | Aug 21 16:57 | |
| schestowitz | Here's something for the trolls to read: | Aug 21 18:25 |
| schestowitz | > Roy, | Aug 21 18:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:25 |
| schestowitz | > I recently decided to reply to Snit's ad hominem attacks and his continual barbing and goading of advocates including myself. | Aug 21 18:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:25 |
| schestowitz | > Through this tirade I have learned that he is a mentally ill, narcissistic misfit, probably capable of quite harm. | Aug 21 18:25 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Per: | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > http://www.esia.net/Common_Traits_of_Stalkers.htm | Aug 21 18:26 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Common Traits of Stalkers .::. Size~: 18.93 KB | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > [quote] | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Although the majority of cases do not end in murder or grave bodily injury, enough do every year that victims should never brush aside the possibility. Victims of stalking should never take the crime lightly, no matter who the stalkers are or how close they have been emotionally. | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Look carefully again at the traits below and be wary if someone seems to fit these. | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Won't take no for an answer | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Has an obsessive personality | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Above average intelligence | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > No or few personal relationships | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Lack of embarrassment or discomfort at actions | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Low self esteem | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Sociopathic thinking | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Has a mean streak | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > [/quote] | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > Snit fits all of these categories. I've decided to re-implement him in bozo-binned status. The guy is a lunatic and I gather probably capable of quite much harm, including physical assault and who knows what else. | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > | Aug 21 18:26 |
| schestowitz | > He and Gary Stewart share very similar personality traits. Perhaps that is why they communicate so well together. It would not surprise me that both are now divorced and are really nasty people to know in person. | Aug 21 18:26 |
| *puppywatch has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Aug 21 19:25 | |
| *puppywatch (~PuppyWatc@host109-156-94-222.range109-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 19:28 | |
| *sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 20:18 | |
| sebsebseb | 1 2 3 MinceR | Aug 21 20:18 |
| sebsebseb | 1 2 3 qu1j0t3 | Aug 21 20:18 |
| sebsebseb | 3 2 1 MinceR | Aug 21 20:18 |
| sebsebseb | 3 2 1 qu1j0t3 | Aug 21 20:18 |
| sebsebseb | :D | Aug 21 20:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | ohai sebsebseb | Aug 21 20:18 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: hi | Aug 21 20:19 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: What you think about Google buying Motroalla, and HP giving up on selling computers or tablets? and pretty much on WebOS as well probably | Aug 21 20:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | heh | Aug 21 20:21 |
| sebsebseb | well those two are the two big tech news at the moment | Aug 21 20:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | i dunno. i find it hard to get excited about such a dysfunctional market | Aug 21 20:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | industry* | Aug 21 20:21 |
| sebsebseb | yeah comapnies hmm | Aug 21 20:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: it's hard to talk sanely about it with this patent bullshit going on. | Aug 21 20:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: if it were a sick dog, you'd have it shot. | Aug 21 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | who | Aug 21 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | HP? | Aug 21 20:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | the whole industry. | Aug 21 20:25 |
| schestowitz | hehe | Aug 21 20:37 |
| schestowitz | what? an industry of 6 IT companies not good enough? | Aug 21 20:37 |
| schestowitz | You have 'choice'... | Aug 21 20:37 |
| schestowitz | mysql.., from ORACLE :-) | Aug 21 20:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | how does anyone take it seriously ? | Aug 21 20:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | without being wilfully ignorant. | Aug 21 20:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | oh, right. answered my own question | Aug 21 20:49 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: what no | Aug 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | your missing Adobe in a way | Aug 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | ,but yeah exactly the tech industry | Aug 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | mainly big names | Aug 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | and loads about them | Aug 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | the big players | Aug 21 20:53 |
| sebsebseb | and smaller comapnies and non profits don't tend to matter that much | Aug 21 20:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | I've hated Adobe for a long time. I had to work with their stuff. | Aug 21 20:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | when they started, they had great tech. but they got too big, and they're public, which seals their doom. | Aug 21 20:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | good example of a basketcase | Aug 21 20:58 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: they bought out Macromedia | Aug 21 20:58 |
| sebsebseb | and yeah Adobe big player | Aug 21 20:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, they did. which i felt was a disaster for the rest of us at the time, and so it proved. | Aug 21 20:59 |
| sebsebseb | and they only really care about money like those other big tech companies | Aug 21 20:59 |
| sebsebseb | only mainly care about that really | Aug 21 20:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | conglomeration is almost never a good thing. | Aug 21 20:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: that is because they are publicly traded. | Aug 21 20:59 |
| sebsebseb | and sure share holders I guess? ,but that goes with moeny | Aug 21 20:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: they are legally bound to pursue profit. hence the world is now broken. | Aug 21 20:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: there is no hope whatsoever in the current system for sanity or a meaningful future for anyone. | Aug 21 21:00 |
| sebsebseb | they are legally bound to do that? | Aug 21 21:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: yes. | Aug 21 21:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: which means they cannot actually do anything sane | Aug 21 21:01 |
| sebsebseb | you mean they have to keep on trying tom ake a profit? or stop the company altoghter? | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: worse | Aug 21 21:02 |
| sebsebseb | they can't just change into a non profit, that's what your saying? | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: no | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: it's much worse | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: they are legally bound to MAXIMISE profit. which means, we are all fucked. | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | in every way. | Aug 21 21:02 |
| sebsebseb | what you mean by that? your saying they have to make a profit? | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | no. | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | much much worse, sebsebseb | Aug 21 21:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | of course a company "has to make a profit". that's basic. | Aug 21 21:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | the difference with PUBLIC companies, especially inthe US, is that the shareholders will sue if they don't take the most scorched earth, ridiculous avenues to MAXIMISE profit. | Aug 21 21:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | whcih explains all the mess you see | Aug 21 21:03 |
| sebsebseb | ok so software patents | Aug 21 21:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | they have no choice ... which also explains why everything feels completely inevitable. | Aug 21 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | or whatever dirty tricks they an use | Aug 21 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | can use | Aug 21 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | to make more money? | Aug 21 21:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | just predict the worst possible outcome and you can guarantee they are all working on it. | Aug 21 21:04 |
| sebsebseb | to make share holders happy as well? | Aug 21 21:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: all of this | Aug 21 21:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: imagine if you were married, and your partner threatened to sue you if you didn't follow their orders 100%. | Aug 21 21:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: what kind of life would that be? | Aug 21 21:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: plus, your partner is insane, and greedy. | Aug 21 21:05 |
| sebsebseb | Why are you high lighting me so much by the way? | Aug 21 21:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | habit | Aug 21 21:05 |
| sebsebseb | this world is a mess yes | Aug 21 21:05 |
| sebsebseb | and companies play a big role in that mess | Aug 21 21:06 |
| sebsebseb | and goverments as well realy | Aug 21 21:06 |
| sebsebseb | and money is a big cause of many of the problems as well | Aug 21 21:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, it is all bound together. greed is probably the single major thread binding private interests, corps, and government. | Aug 21 21:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | until this changes, we might as well kiss our asses goodbye. | Aug 21 21:07 |
| sebsebseb | why? | Aug 21 21:07 |
| sebsebseb | why you say that? | Aug 21 21:08 |
| sebsebseb | oh and pretty much everyone is a consumer for well nearly everything, in this current situation, but here's the thing at times companies call their customers consumer, and realy they mean idiot | Aug 21 21:08 |
| sebsebseb | idiots | Aug 21 21:08 |
| sebsebseb | you agree or? | Aug 21 21:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | no, i don't agree. | Aug 21 21:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | the system is designed not by us, sebsebseb | Aug 21 21:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | until now, 99.99% are ignorant of what and why we are dealing with. | Aug 21 21:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's what has to change. | Aug 21 21:11 |
| sebsebseb | who is it designed by? The elite? you belive in this NWO stuff? | Aug 21 21:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | LOL | Aug 21 21:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: it's not a matter of 'believing'. | Aug 21 21:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: just look around you and draw your own conclusions. | Aug 21 21:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: it's "hiding in plain sight", as they say. | Aug 21 21:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | in other words, all the necessary proofs can be found through observation. | Aug 21 21:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | ...and i've been observing for about 25 years. | Aug 21 21:13 |
| sebsebseb | ok so you think there is a elite? | Aug 21 21:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | are you kidding? | Aug 21 21:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: this isn't a matter of opinion. | Aug 21 21:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | pay attention to more of TR's political content. schestowitz does a good job of poinitng out connections. | Aug 21 21:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | the problem isn't "is there an elite", it's showing you how the elite likes you to think about other stuff (distractions). | Aug 21 21:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: a great example is how you are supposed to believe Bill Gates is some kind of philanthropist, doing good works. | Aug 21 21:14 |
| sebsebseb | the system is about control yes, and we aren't in control of it | Aug 21 21:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | take one small fact like that, and keep digging until you see that it's a lie | Aug 21 21:15 |
| sebsebseb | and most people think they should go get a job when working age as well | Aug 21 21:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | 'you just will never find the facts in mainstream media, it's not what it's for... | Aug 21 21:15 |
| sebsebseb | and earn their own money | Aug 21 21:15 |
| sebsebseb | ah, but having a job, can turn people into a slave to the system really? you agree? | Aug 21 21:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, it's not the JOB per se. but yes, in general we are slaves. | Aug 21 21:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | few people realise this, yet. | Aug 21 21:16 |
| sebsebseb | most are sheep | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | mainly because the mainstream is designed to prevent them from ever asking the question. | Aug 21 21:17 |
| sebsebseb | just go along with things, and that's that | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: they're trained to do that. | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's not innate. | Aug 21 21:17 |
| sebsebseb | the main streame? you mean the media for example? | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | like they are trained to drink Coke and eat McDonalds. | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | and watch TV and latest violent film. | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | all part of one hermetic system. | Aug 21 21:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | one can remove the parts one by one, like taking out thorns | Aug 21 21:18 |
| sebsebseb | what does hermetic mean? | Aug 21 21:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | completely sealed | Aug 21 21:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | a closed system | Aug 21 21:18 |
| sebsebseb | and they get trained to trust comapnies as well | Aug 21 21:19 |
| sebsebseb | and to buy stuff | Aug 21 21:19 |
| sebsebseb | and so | Aug 21 21:19 |
| sebsebseb | well | Aug 21 21:19 |
| sebsebseb | Windows is still very popular for example | Aug 21 21:19 |
| sebsebseb | and Microsoft Office | Aug 21 21:19 |
| sebsebseb | and Apple is getting quite pouplar as well, because of what I just said and such | Aug 21 21:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | right. | Aug 21 21:20 |
| sebsebseb | and well if Canonical do things right enough with Ubuntu | Aug 21 21:20 |
| sebsebseb | they may actsaully go main stremae eventualy | Aug 21 21:20 |
| sebsebseb | ,because they are a company after all | Aug 21 21:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | if you said to most people, "Microsoft is run by criminals, it's organised crime" they wouldn't understand. | Aug 21 21:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | you're not supposed to be able to "think' such things. | Aug 21 21:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | orwell ... | Aug 21 21:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: the problem is mostly US corporations, because of the broken legal/political system. | Aug 21 21:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | their Supreme Court has been hacked completely. | Aug 21 21:21 |
| sebsebseb | agreed US comapnies are mainly the problem realy | Aug 21 21:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | the executive branch has been corrupted for decades. | Aug 21 21:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | at least 50 years. | Aug 21 21:21 |
| sebsebseb | and US companies tend to be global as well, the big ones | Aug 21 21:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, and they use the implied weight of the military to grow | Aug 21 21:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | trade with US corporations is trade with a threatening bully | Aug 21 21:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | coercion | Aug 21 21:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | wikileaks revealed a lot of this | Aug 21 21:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | but it's not just wikileaks | Aug 21 21:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | you only have to read the documents | Aug 21 21:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: it's worse the more you get into it. | Aug 21 21:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | for example, coca-cola destroying agricultural regions by stealing water | Aug 21 21:24 |
| sebsebseb | oh? | Aug 21 21:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | Monsanto destroying land around the world, gmo, etc | Aug 21 21:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: all this has been going on forever. | Aug 21 21:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: do you know what "Bhopal" means? | Aug 21 21:24 |
| sebsebseb | nope | Aug 21 21:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | sigh | Aug 21 21:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: google "Bhopal disaster" | Aug 21 21:25 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: bot can do it here I Think :D | Aug 21 21:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | !google "Bhopal disaster" | Aug 21 21:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | [1] - Bhopal disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster | Aug 21 21:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | [2] - Bhopal Disaster | http://www1.american.edu/ted/bhopal.htm | Aug 21 21:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | [3] - The Bhopal disaster and its aftermath: a review | http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1142333/ | Aug 21 21:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | [4] - Bhopal Disaster | Greenpeace | http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/campaigns/toxics/justice-for-bhopal/ | Aug 21 21:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | try [4] | Aug 21 21:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: nobody was punished for this. killing 8,500 Indian citizens with a horrible nerve poison in one night. | Aug 21 21:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: and 100,000 more affected permanently with gruesome health problems | Aug 21 21:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: and this is just one of hundreds of such events | Aug 21 21:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | there was no accountability and not even cleanup. | Aug 21 21:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | the factory just sits there, still leaking poisons into the city and environment. | Aug 21 21:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | THIS is US business in action. | Aug 21 21:27 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: well be careful you share a border with them heh heh :d | Aug 21 21:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | we all share a border with them, effectively. | Aug 21 21:28 |
| sebsebseb | oh? | Aug 21 21:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | there is no sovereignty, they made sure to abolish it. | Aug 21 21:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | none of the West operates independently of hte USA. UK was in Iraq. | Aug 21 21:29 |
| sebsebseb | anyway yep it's the USA that mess the world up mainly | Aug 21 21:29 |
| sebsebseb | indeed | Aug 21 21:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | UK citizens didn't want it. didn't matter. | Aug 21 21:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | there was no majority support for Iraq war outside US and Israel. | Aug 21 21:29 |
| MinceR | sure, but Airstrip One is especially close to the usa, isn't it? | Aug 21 21:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | Canada? | Aug 21 21:30 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: Canada gets to share a continent with them :D | Aug 21 21:30 |
| MinceR | UK | Aug 21 21:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | proximity doesn't make much difference. the only thing I worry about is 200 million ignorant, armed americans coming up here when their society finally dies. | Aug 21 21:30 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: one that they mainly took over though of course | Aug 21 21:30 |
| sebsebseb | over the years | Aug 21 21:30 |
| MinceR | and i'm not talking about geographical proximity | Aug 21 21:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: close enough yes.. but there are plenty of bases over your way too. | Aug 21 21:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: the US operates 700+ permanent military bases overseas. | Aug 21 21:30 |
| sebsebseb | most of North America is yep the USA | Aug 21 21:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: do you know any other countries that do that? | Aug 21 21:31 |
| sebsebseb | and I think Cuba is part of North America really, but well the Americans don't seem to like Cuba | Aug 21 21:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: they're trained to dislike Cuba. | Aug 21 21:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's an enormous amount of crap the american mainstream puts out about cuba. | Aug 21 21:31 |
| sebsebseb | well Russia used to be much bigger than it is now | Aug 21 21:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | not according to my atlas... | Aug 21 21:31 |
| sebsebseb | oh? | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | well USSR had like Latvia and such? | Aug 21 21:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | sure, there are a bunch of EX-soviet states :) | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: anyway and then wit the USA, we get global capitalism and consumerism as well | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | so yeah | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | Macdonals | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | Burger King KFC | Aug 21 21:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: we weren't asked to choose. | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | ok maybe not so bad for thsoe, it's food, but unhealty food | Aug 21 21:32 |
| MinceR | "soviet" just means "council" or "advice" | Aug 21 21:32 |
| sebsebseb | and then of course comapnies such as | Aug 21 21:33 |
| MinceR | they were russians :> | Aug 21 21:33 |
| sebsebseb | Microsoft, Dell, HP, Google, and so on | Aug 21 21:33 |
| sebsebseb | Nintendo is American as well isn't it? | Aug 21 21:33 |
| MinceR | afaik it's japanese | Aug 21 21:33 |
| sebsebseb | Apple another big American player as well | Aug 21 21:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | originally japanese. who knows, now | Aug 21 21:33 |
| MinceR | HQ is in Kyoto | Aug 21 21:34 |
| sebsebseb | and well Asia have some big technology companies as well for example, ah but here's the difference, they don't seem to play dirty or not as much as say Microsoft and such | Aug 21 21:34 |
| sebsebseb | most of the companies and software patents stuff for example, it's to do with American companies | Aug 21 21:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: they're all dirty. | Aug 21 21:34 |
| sebsebseb | unless it's them sueing a smaller player | Aug 21 21:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | sebsebseb: the problem is systemic | Aug 21 21:34 |
| sebsebseb | or something | Aug 21 21:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | if only it were as simple as eliminating say Microsoft, and the patient recovers. | Aug 21 21:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | at this point the cancer has metastasised, you can't say what's patient and what's cancer, now. | Aug 21 21:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | and that applies more generally too. | Aug 21 21:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | for example, McDonalds. | Aug 21 21:35 |
| MinceR | there still are a few good candidates in IT | Aug 21 21:36 |
| sebsebseb | oh such as Canonical? heh heh | Aug 21 21:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: sure. there are exceptions. but the system is doomed as a while. | Aug 21 21:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | whole* | Aug 21 21:36 |
| sebsebseb | anyway Canonical is meant to be locaed in Isle of Man or wahtever, but in certain ways, they are quite American now | Aug 21 21:36 |
| sebsebseb | plus the CEO is American | Aug 21 21:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | are they public or private? | Aug 21 21:36 |
| MinceR | they're aping crApple, so they have to be usian in their mindset | Aug 21 21:37 |
| sebsebseb | yep they are trying to compete against Apple | Aug 21 21:37 |
| sebsebseb | ,but also Microsoft really | Aug 21 21:37 |
| MinceR | more than just "compete against" | Aug 21 21:38 |
| sebsebseb | ,but they got to be careful, if they make Ubuntu to Windows like, their fan boys won't be happy | Aug 21 21:38 |
| MinceR | they're trying to make a gratis macos with the same "the user is an idiot" approach | Aug 21 21:38 |
| sebsebseb | if they make it more Mac OS X like, well their fan boys are ok with that | Aug 21 21:38 |
| MinceR | exactly | Aug 21 21:38 |
| sebsebseb | yep Ubuntu poor mans OS X | Aug 21 21:39 |
| sebsebseb | well that's what it is turning in to | Aug 21 21:39 |
| sebsebseb | basicalley | Aug 21 21:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: which is where I argued Linux should go, back in the late 90s... | Aug 21 21:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: before OS X, actually. | Aug 21 21:39 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: what you mean? | Aug 21 21:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | it was obvious to me then that it was necessary. the OLPC is probably the best example so far | Aug 21 21:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | however, i doubt Canonical will succeed. | Aug 21 21:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | in this | Aug 21 21:40 |
| sebsebseb | OLPC is best example of what? | Aug 21 21:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | a user-centric Linux. | Aug 21 21:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | that "just works". which is where Linux has to get to, eventually. | Aug 21 21:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | i don't think Canonical can do it. | Aug 21 21:40 |
| sebsebseb | yeah Canonical try with Ubuntu, but well there are quite a few issues holding it back from | Aug 21 21:41 |
| sebsebseb | just working | Aug 21 21:41 |
| sebsebseb | most of the time | Aug 21 21:41 |
| sebsebseb | so yeah with wireless and what not | Aug 21 21:41 |
| sebsebseb | you know | Aug 21 21:41 |
| sebsebseb | anyway Android isn't that really a user centic Linux that just works? | Aug 21 21:41 |
| sebsebseb | qu1j0t3: MinceR Canonical want to win loads of consumer sheeps over to Ubuntu | Aug 21 21:42 |
| sebsebseb | the ignorant consumers | Aug 21 21:42 |
| sebsebseb | who don't really care much about computers, that's who they want to win over | Aug 21 21:42 |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: targeting idiots is not the same as "user-centric" | Aug 21 21:42 |
| MinceR | not letting the user do what he wants is in fact very far from it | Aug 21 21:42 |
| sebsebseb | oh this reminds me actsauly | Aug 21 21:42 |
| sebsebseb | something i'll share | Aug 21 21:42 |
| sebsebseb | on this kind of subject :) | Aug 21 21:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: differnt debate, of no interest to me. but perhaps it illuminates why I think Canonical can't do it. | Aug 21 21:43 |
| MinceR | whether they can do it or not only depends on one thing, the same thing crApple itself depends on for everything: hype | Aug 21 21:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | disagree | Aug 21 21:43 |
| sebsebseb | http://fossforce.com/2011/08/top-10-things-linux-users-dont-understand/ | Aug 21 21:43 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Top 10 Things Linux Users Don’t Understand « FOSS Force .::. Size~: 119.69 KB | Aug 21 21:43 |
| MinceR | if they can amass a lot of fanboys, they will succeed | Aug 21 21:43 |
| sebsebseb | and there was a great comment I saved from that | Aug 21 21:43 |
| sebsebseb | on the subject of what we are talking about | Aug 21 21:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | nothing to do with hype | Aug 21 21:43 |
| sebsebseb | well the list from it is great :) | Aug 21 21:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | look at OLPC for examples of the kind of thinking needed | Aug 21 21:44 |
| MinceR | well, there's no technical merit to what crApple does and canonical is working on eliminating technical merit from their products | Aug 21 21:44 |
| MinceR | so what's left? | Aug 21 21:44 |
| sebsebseb | # | Aug 21 21:44 |
| sebsebseb | salparadise | Aug 21 21:44 |
| sebsebseb | August 11th, 2011 at 5:06 pm | Aug 21 21:44 |
| sebsebseb | Hopeless list. I understand all of them except Blake Stowell, who I’ve never heard of. | Aug 21 21:44 |
| MinceR | OLPC is entirely different, it's targeted at helping children learn | Aug 21 21:44 |
| sebsebseb | Some things I don’t understand (as a Linux user). | Aug 21 21:44 |
| sebsebseb | 1) What Canonical is playing at with Linux? | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 2) What Gnome is playing at with Gnome 3? | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 3) Why this new level of idiocy is regarded as “what the user wants”? | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 4) Why anyone who uses Linux wants the ordinary man in the street to also use it (because that means massive dumbing down and locking down in order to protect said users from their own ignorance and unwillingness to learn). | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 5) Why anyone thinks that a 6 month release cycle is anything other than absurd and anti-user. | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 6) The Cloud. | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 7) Why people pay for software without even looking for a free alternative. | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | 8) Why anyone trusts Google. | Aug 21 21:45 |
| MinceR | i don't think i've seen anyone suggest Sugar as an environment for everyday computing | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | point 4 is great | Aug 21 21:45 |
| sebsebseb | :D | Aug 21 21:45 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: good list, though i don't entirely get point 5 | Aug 21 21:46 |
| sebsebseb | they obviously mean Ubuntu | Aug 21 21:46 |
| sebsebseb | I assume | Aug 21 21:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: I'm not suggesting it EITHER. | Aug 21 21:46 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: good article and comments that list thing | Aug 21 21:46 |
| sebsebseb | link above | Aug 21 21:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: I am saying that the approach the OLPC took is indicative of what's necessary to produce a better environment. | Aug 21 21:46 |
| MinceR | unity is meant for everyday computing, though | Aug 21 21:46 |
| sebsebseb | Unity is the dumbing down | Aug 21 21:46 |
| sebsebseb | ,but it's meant to be for well all of these devices, lap tops, desktops, mobile phones, tablets, etc | Aug 21 21:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | i'm not talking about Canonical, i'm talking about what linux needs to do. | Aug 21 21:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | I said several times that I doubt Canonical will ever deliver this. | Aug 21 21:47 |
| MinceR | linux is a kernel, it needs to do what it does :> | Aug 21 21:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | sigh | Aug 21 21:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | ok, tired of being wilfully misundertood. | Aug 21 21:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | next topic. | Aug 21 21:47 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: I was thinking something like that as well, but qu1j0t3 meant Desktop Linux, so with Gnome or KDE or wahtever as well I assume | Aug 21 21:47 |
| MinceR | ic | Aug 21 21:47 |
| MinceR | well, i think that needs to either break the deals that keep m$ in place or slowly overpower them | Aug 21 21:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, that has to happen as well. | Aug 21 21:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's kind of chicken-and-egg. | Aug 21 21:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | but both have to occur | Aug 21 21:48 |
| sebsebseb | it's the backend stuff that could do with more fixing for Desktop Linux, so wirelss just works and so on, like every time, but things aren't so simple | Aug 21 21:48 |
| sebsebseb | since the companies lack of support etc | Aug 21 21:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes. that makes it chicken-and-egg. | Aug 21 21:48 |
| sebsebseb | ,but well broadcom did join the Linux foundation a few months or so ago for example | Aug 21 21:48 |
| MinceR | there's no OS where things "just work" | Aug 21 21:48 |
| sebsebseb | and even Lexmark joined whenever it was now | Aug 21 21:48 |
| MinceR | yet they are used | Aug 21 21:48 |
| sebsebseb | thing is hardware is propritary | Aug 21 21:49 |
| sebsebseb | it's from these tech companies | Aug 21 21:49 |
| sebsebseb | the ones that sell it to make money and such really | Aug 21 21:49 |
| sebsebseb | and so | Aug 21 21:49 |
| MinceR | i don't think it's reasonable to expect that GNU+Linux will soon become _perfect_ and that will suddenly remove the more serious barriers such as the m$/OEM deals | Aug 21 21:49 |
| sebsebseb | well a distro needs built in support of some sort for the device or it's the hope they make drivers sitaution hmm | Aug 21 21:49 |
| MinceR | (and quite likely the existence of software patents) | Aug 21 21:49 |
| sebsebseb | hardware is propritary | Aug 21 21:50 |
| MinceR | GNU+Linux is already a lot better than all the alternatives | Aug 21 21:50 |
| sebsebseb | that can be an issue | Aug 21 21:50 |
| sebsebseb | as I am saying | Aug 21 21:50 |
| sebsebseb | that right there can be a big issue as well, the closed hardware | Aug 21 21:50 |
| MinceR | closed hardware is a lot more difficult to fix | Aug 21 21:50 |
| sebsebseb | if it was open, then sure the support from Linux distro's, woudn't be that big a deal | Aug 21 21:50 |
| sebsebseb | and the average consumer | Aug 21 21:50 |
| sebsebseb | they buy a computer | Aug 21 21:51 |
| sebsebseb | and they want everything that they want to use, to just work | Aug 21 21:51 |
| sebsebseb | and that can be an issue as well | Aug 21 21:51 |
| MinceR | the average consumer uses whatever OS is preloaded | Aug 21 21:51 |
| MinceR | GNU+Linux is almost never preloaded | Aug 21 21:51 |
| sebsebseb | and sure they get drivers for Windows for example either pre installed, or with the computer useually, and then they think Windows just work | Aug 21 21:51 |
| MinceR | therefore, the average consumer does not use it | Aug 21 21:51 |
| sebsebseb | and even Flash, well it was either pre installed, or they installed them selves, but forgot they did, most of them I mean | Aug 21 21:51 |
| MinceR | they'll just keep using winblows even if it's more trouble than functionality | Aug 21 21:52 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: excellent point you and sebsebseb made earlier about the SCOTUS | Aug 21 21:52 |
| sebsebseb | well Asus were doing some Ubuntu computers lately | Aug 21 21:52 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: about the what? | Aug 21 21:52 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: yes Ubuntu uhmm not really going in a direction that is that good, because well you know | Aug 21 21:52 |
| sebsebseb | ,but | Aug 21 21:52 |
| schestowitz | I just wanted to add (too late to go back to old topic) that I agree that the system as a whole ittoo rotten now and China/Japen/Asia industry is equally corrupt. They learned from us. | Aug 21 21:52 |
| sebsebseb | pre installed Ubuntu from big and small OEM's, is better than no Linux at all really? | Aug 21 21:52 |
| schestowitz |  | Aug 21 21:53 |
| schestowitz | [21:51] <MinceR> GNU+Linux is almost never preloaded | Aug 21 21:53 |
| schestowitz | It could be if it were not for Elop the Moel | Aug 21 21:53 |
| schestowitz | *Mole | Aug 21 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Aug 21 21:53 |
| schestowitz | Elop the Mohel... cutting Nokia's dick | Aug 21 21:53 |
| sebsebseb | can always replace the distro with a better one later, if buy it pre loaded, and know about that, like a lot of people did with the EEPC and Xandros for example | Aug 21 21:53 |
| sebsebseb | and you dented about Xandros recnetly schestowitz and a blog post I read | Aug 21 21:53 |
| sebsebseb | and well yes I think it's pretty much dead now really | Aug 21 21:53 |
| schestowitz | it is... | Aug 21 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Their home page has not been updated in 2 years | Aug 21 21:54 |
| sebsebseb | oh | Aug 21 21:54 |
| schestowitz | [21:50] <MinceR> GNU+Linux is already a lot better than all the alternatives | Aug 21 21:54 |
| sebsebseb | well they bought out Linspire and so that died as well | Aug 21 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but does it have the Mac Experience{tm}? | Aug 21 21:54 |
| sebsebseb | altough out of the two I guess Xandros was the better, but I didn't use it | Aug 21 21:54 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: which kde are you on atm? | Aug 21 21:55 |
| sebsebseb | I did try out Freespire and Linspire before or whatever | Aug 21 21:55 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: no, it does not have the "i bought my way (expensively) into a cult" experience :> | Aug 21 21:55 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: still 4.3 | Aug 21 21:55 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: YES | Aug 21 21:55 |
| schestowitz | That's how I put it like 5 years ago | Aug 21 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Saying that a Mac Mini is a low-cost ticket into the mindset/cult | Aug 21 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Or a shuffle/nano.. | Aug 21 21:56 |
| MinceR | wouldn't call it "low-cost" :> | Aug 21 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Today I saw Apple at the shop | Aug 21 21:56 |
| MinceR | though it is cheaper than the options available earlier | Aug 21 21:56 |
| schestowitz | It was not a trademark infringement | Aug 21 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Just fruit | Aug 21 21:56 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it buys you 0.33 Thetan | Aug 21 21:57 |
| schestowitz | Dangerous cult | Aug 21 21:57 |
| schestowitz | They could start a Jihad against Redmind... a "Blow for Blows" campaign | Aug 21 21:58 |
| MinceR | :> | Aug 21 21:58 |
| schestowitz | [21:45] <sebsebseb> 8) Why anyone trusts Google. | Aug 21 21:59 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: that's from the article | Aug 21 21:59 |
| sebsebseb | someones comment | Aug 21 21:59 |
| schestowitz | I hope Android keeps knocking proprietary phones out of the market | Aug 21 21:59 |
| sebsebseb | part of it | Aug 21 21:59 |
| schestowitz | I don't care about Google | Aug 21 21:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | @MinceR | there's no OS where things "just work" <--- pointless remark. | Aug 21 22:00 |
| MinceR | actually there is a point | Aug 21 22:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | @MinceR | GNU+Linux is already a lot better than all the alternatives <--- it's not good enough until Windows is history. | Aug 21 22:00 |
| MinceR | the point is that the "it must just work because then it will win" is an argument that fails | Aug 21 22:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | @MinceR | GNU+Linux is almost never preloaded <-- I agree that has to change. | Aug 21 22:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: Noboyd said that. I did not. | Aug 21 22:01 |
| MinceR | the point of the second one is that the reason of GNU+Linux not dominating the market right now is not that it's "not good enough" | Aug 21 22:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | scroll back if you like. I never said anything resembling "if it just works, it will win" | Aug 21 22:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: I never said that either. | Aug 21 22:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | however, it's not good enough. there are several ways of concluding this. | Aug 21 22:01 |
| MinceR | i think this implied that argument >> 224438 < qu1j0t3> that "just works". which is where Linux has to get to, eventually. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | sure. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| *schestowitz thinks, "if you're smart how come you don't have loads of money?!" | Aug 21 22:02 | |
| qu1j0t3 | but it's not the same statement. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| MinceR | nothing is good enough | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | eh? | Aug 21 22:02 |
| MinceR | probably never will be | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | are you being deliberately thick? | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | all of that is a given, duh. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | we all write software every day. we all know software can never be perfect. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| MinceR | yes, that's my point | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's Not The Point. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's completely irrelevant remark. | Aug 21 22:02 |
| *schestowitz came to a similar conclusion with a friend some days ago (whose siibling compensates for inferiority by enslaving self for money, materialism, and babies) | Aug 21 22:03 | |
| qu1j0t3 | anyone can sit down and analyse linux and say: "Here's a whole pile of stuff to fix. Now go away and do it." | Aug 21 22:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's what OLPC did. | Aug 21 22:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | a whole lot of things can prevent that from happening. | Aug 21 22:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | and in Canonical's case, probably will :D | Aug 21 22:03 |
| MinceR | can you give examples of what OLPC fixed about desktop GNU+Linux? | Aug 21 22:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | they had one immense advantage: integrated hardware. | Aug 21 22:04 |
| *schestowitz confused by the whole OLPC yardstick | Aug 21 22:04 | |
| qu1j0t3 | unfortunately, desktop linux can never have that. | Aug 21 22:04 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: so am i | Aug 21 22:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | sigh | Aug 21 22:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, you all would be. but it doesn't matter. | Aug 21 22:04 |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: PC suppliers can do it if they want | Aug 21 22:04 |
| schestowitz | OLPC - like a Mac, for a tenth the cost | Aug 21 22:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: yes, isn't that great? | Aug 21 22:05 |
| schestowitz | OLPC was attacked by intel and Microsoft | Aug 21 22:05 |
| MinceR | and they would, if m$ wasn't keeping them from it | Aug 21 22:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: I agree | Aug 21 22:05 |
| schestowitz | It was a good project, so they had to sabotage it | Aug 21 22:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: the OEM bullshit has to cease, and when it does, everything gets healthier. | Aug 21 22:05 |
| MinceR | hw manufacturers happily got into Android, webOS and quick-boot GNU/Linux variants eagerly | Aug 21 22:05 |
| schestowitz | HP won'e be OEM anymore | Aug 21 22:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | the point of using OLPC as a benchmark is that it shows the KIND of radical thinking that linux-on-desktop needs. | Aug 21 22:05 |
| schestowitz | LOL Microsoft Shops will do dance routines and sell Zunes.. oh, weit.. | Aug 21 22:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | not technical SPECIFICS | Aug 21 22:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | although there are probably a bunch of specifics that desktop linux *could* take from OLPC. | Aug 21 22:06 |
| schestowitz | People will go to the nearby O2 shop and get a Linux tablet.. | Aug 21 22:06 |
| MinceR | i still don't get what is needed out of that other than official support from the HW manufacturer | Aug 21 22:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: that only supplies the low level answers. | Aug 21 22:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | which is important, but... | Aug 21 22:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's much more radicality needed. | Aug 21 22:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | throwing out X was inevitable. | Aug 21 22:06 |
| MinceR | can you give more examples of things that could be taken from it? | Aug 21 22:06 |
| MinceR | pft | Aug 21 22:07 |
| MinceR | why do you want to throw X out? | Aug 21 22:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | hehe | Aug 21 22:07 |
| schestowitz | no way.. land | Aug 21 22:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | X was obsolete 15 years ago, MinceR | Aug 21 22:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | 25 years ago, arguably. | Aug 21 22:07 |
| schestowitz | what bout x-forwarding? | Aug 21 22:07 |
| schestowitz | \s came from terminals | Aug 21 22:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | the fact we still have X is historical oddity. | Aug 21 22:07 |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: X is still the most powerful windowing system around | Aug 21 22:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's not helping desktop linux. | Aug 21 22:07 |
| schestowitz | it's still my most handy feature for getting work done | Aug 21 22:07 |
| MinceR | people who don't understand X want to get rid of it, of course | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: sure. | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: hehe | Aug 21 22:08 |
| schestowitz | separating hardware from displays anywhere in the world | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | okay, i'm done with this conversation. too closed minded, MinceR | Aug 21 22:08 |
| MinceR | powerful and flexible systems are helping desktop GNU+Linux | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | on the losing side, you are :D | Aug 21 22:08 |
| schestowitz | for most people it doesn't apply | Aug 21 22:08 |
| MinceR | X is one of them | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | done. | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | next toppic. | Aug 21 22:08 |
| schestowitz | Let hem use something like GDUI c** | Aug 21 22:08 |
| schestowitz | GDI | Aug 21 22:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | now you see why RADICAL THINKING is needed and IS NOT HAPPENING. you're an example, MinceR | Aug 21 22:08 |
| MinceR | oh, wow, RADICAL THINKING | Aug 21 22:08 |
| schestowitz | You want radical? Join the B&M Foundation | Aug 21 22:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes. that's what's needed, AND an end to the mafia OEM bullshit. | Aug 21 22:09 |
| MinceR | such as "hey, we have a pretty good windowing system here. let's throw it out and copy the competition's crippled windowing systems instead!" | Aug 21 22:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: X isn't adequate. | Aug 21 22:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | anyway, i'm done with this topic. | Aug 21 22:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | this illustrates why desktop linux isn't moving very fast. :D | Aug 21 22:09 |
| MinceR | circular reasoning demonstrates that? | Aug 21 22:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: i said i'm done. | Aug 21 22:10 |
| MinceR | yes, never mind that it's moving faster than any other desktop | Aug 21 22:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: great! | Aug 21 22:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: call me when Windows is dead. | Aug 21 22:11 |
| MinceR | you sound a lot like a m$ fanboy | Aug 21 22:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | huh? | Aug 21 22:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | are you kidding? | Aug 21 22:12 |
| MinceR | nope | Aug 21 22:12 |
| *qu1j0t3 (~qu1j0t3@vm4.telegraphics.com.au) has left #boycottnovell-social ("FTS") | Aug 21 22:12 | |
| MinceR | oh wow, very mature | Aug 21 22:13 |
| schestowitz | ^%^&$*(* | Aug 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | I hate FIrefox | Aug 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Such a mess it has become | Aug 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla should have stayed like it was | Aug 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Now it doesn't even pick my bookmarks | Aug 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | I want to go back to 3.6 | Aug 21 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Im removing some darn ppas | Aug 21 22:29 |
| MinceR | what do you mean by "pick my bookmarks"? | Aug 21 22:30 |
| schestowitz | it's a beta of 6 | Aug 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | I'm removing it | Aug 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | going back to 3.6 if I can | Aug 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | It has been nothing but trouble working from PPA | Aug 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | It overrides the firefox updates | Aug 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | Both | Aug 21 22:43 |
| schestowitz | So it keeps bouncing between different versions | Aug 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Collision in a sense | Aug 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | Just use whatever version the distro gives you, that's my lesson | Aug 21 22:44 |
| schestowitz | database ... 409333 files and directories currently installed.) | Aug 21 22:45 |
| *puppywatch has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Aug 21 22:51 | |
| *puppywatch (~PuppyWatc@host109-156-94-222.range109-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 22:56 | |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Aug 21 23:03 | |
| MinceR | you could probably use APT magic to make it stick to a version you trust | Aug 21 23:05 |
| MinceR | or set priorities between repos | Aug 21 23:05 |
| schestowitz | I just got it more messed up.. | Aug 21 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Going into a PPA was a bad idea all along | Aug 21 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Just caused me trouble over time | Aug 21 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Lots of it | Aug 21 23:09 |
| schestowitz | back in a mo | Aug 21 23:13 |
| *schestowitz has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Aug 21 23:14 | |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Aug 21 23:20:33 2011 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 23:20 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell-social for http://TechRights.org | Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell | Aug 21 23:20 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:20:14 2010 | Aug 21 23:20 | |
| schestowitz | I've dumped firefox, maybe for good | Aug 21 23:40 |
| *puppywatch has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Aug 21 23:54 | |
| *puppywatch (~PuppyWatc@host109-156-94-222.range109-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Aug 21 23:56 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!