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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 18th, 2011

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*cubezzz2 is now known as cubezzzSep 18 02:45
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schestowitzJust got an interesting mail, re pensions being a Ponzi schemeSep 18 17:01
schestowitz> In your case, the main considerations in you opting to stay in or gettingSep 18 17:05
schestowitz> out...Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz>         Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> 1. How long will you actually work for this company, a month, a year, aSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> lifetime? Sep 18 17:06
schestowitzThat is an important question. One seems to get tied onto one particular pension scheme and upon moves between employers it becomes a big mess that is hard transferable.Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> 2. How long will this company survive? Nowadays, even Goliaths fall intoSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> bankruptcy in a blink. Sep 18 17:06
schestowitzYes, but I suppose what matters is, which of the companies falls, the pension one or the one actually doing real work? :-)Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> 3. Are you disciplined enough to withdraw a set amount of salary and investSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> it on your own self-directed pension plan. I am sure any prudent person canSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> invest and safely increase the principal 5% to 10% on an annual average overSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> a 30 year span.Sep 18 17:06
schestowitzI am a cynic when it comes to the financial sector and I sense that the only ones who will profit from this are the middleman. Therefore it seems more like an attractive 'sheep' for people who think like sheep, or a wolf in sheep closeting.Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> --------------------------Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> The example shown below (sent by a friend) is to prove that the SocialSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Security Pension in the U.S. is a Ponzi scheme. I do not fully agree, butSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> you may find some f this useful. Of course, 49 years is not applicableSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> anymore for you and you must reduce the 15% to 4%. Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> ------------------------Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Remember, not only did you contribute to Social  Security but your employerSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> did too. It totaled 15% of your income before      taxes. If you averagedSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> only $30K over your working life, that's close to  $220,500. Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> If you calculate the future value of $4,500 per      year (yours & yourSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> employer's contribution) at a simple 5% (less than  what the govt. pays onSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working  you'd haveSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> $892,919.98. Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> If you took out only 3% per year,  you'd receive $26,787.60 per year and itSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> would last better than 30 years      (until you're 95 if you retire at ageSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> 65) and that's with no interest paid      on that final amount on deposit!Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per      year, you'd have a lifetimeSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> income of $2,976.40 per  month. Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi      scheme thanSep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Bernie Madoff ever had. Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:06
schestowitz> Entitlement my ass, I paid cash      for my social security insurance!!!!Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Just because they borrowed the money,      doesn't make my benefits someSep 18 17:07
schestowitz> kind of charity or handout!! Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Congressional benefits ---- free healthcare, outrageous      retirementSep 18 17:07
schestowitz> packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited      paidSep 18 17:07
schestowitz> sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call mySep 18 17:07
schestowitz> social security retirement entitlements? Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> We're "broke" and can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless.Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> In the last months we have provided aid to Haiti , Chile and Turkey . AndSep 18 17:07
schestowitz> now Pakistan, home of bin Laden. Literally, BILLIONS of DOLLARS!!! Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Our      retired seniors living on a 'fixed income' receive no aid nor doSep 18 17:07
schestowitz> they get any breaks while our government and religious organizations pourSep 18 17:07
schestowitz> Hundreds of Billions of $$$$$$'s and Tons of Food to Foreign Countries!Sep 18 17:07
schestowitz*clothing I meantSep 18 17:07
schestowitzI reckon too it's just a Ponzi schemeSep 18 17:09
schestowitzAnd I was told that too by othersSep 18 17:09
schestowitzOne of my employers, the one which is based in London, offered me toSep 18 17:10
schestowitzenter a pension scheme about 4 months ago. Upon quick inquiry from themSep 18 17:10
schestowitzI said "OK" (seemed like the polite thing to do) and they startedSep 18 17:10
schestowitzallocating 2% of my wage to this pension scheme from a large well knownSep 18 17:10
schestowitzcompany. The benefit is, according to them, is that the employer pays anSep 18 17:10
schestowitzadditional 2% into the scheme and there is another 1% coming from tax,Sep 18 17:10
schestowitzwhich means I only pay 40% of the total amount going into the scheme.Sep 18 17:10
schestowitz I asked another person about this shortly after I had said "OK" and he too -- like myself -- thought it is hard to be sure what the economy will look like in 36 years when I am set to retire. Generally speaking, I distrust financial instruments, especially those with long-term promises.Sep 18 17:10
schestowitzI should stress again that this is a large financial company much like a bank; it's not some dodgy and scarcely known establishment. But considering the fact I have been on this scheme for a few months, I don't know if an option really exists for opting out and additionally I do wonder if such pensions are a good idea at all.Sep 18 17:11
schestowitzMaybe I can be better off just saving this money myself, only without the benefit of contribution from the employer and tax benefits (exemptions). Without looking at the actual pertinent details of the pension, can anyone advise on whether it's worth getting into at all? Are pension funds as reliable and trustworthy as they used to be? And if not, should it be possible to exit it now and recover what was put into it?Sep 18 17:12
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