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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 27th, 2011

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*gnufreex has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Sep 27 00:19
schestowitzDelay in action against Apple's  abuse against Android, with patents..Sep 27 00:22
schestowitz...Sep 27 00:22
schestowitz> is a copy of an email I sent keith bergelt. I really cannot wait. It is already the end of september!  And it is not fair to me. Sep 27 00:22
schestowitz> Sep 27 00:22
schestowitz> [...]Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz>Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz> 3 weeks ago you asked to meet on the 21st of September in NYC. I waited for instructions from you on exactly where & when but I think you were too busy. A few days before the 21st I walked by the Waldorf on Park Ave and the streets were packed with police and barricades and women with cameras hoping to catch a diplomat or two (due to UN activities)...and I figured perhaps you visit to nyc at that particular time meant you were Sep 27 00:23
schestowitzsocializing with your old friends in diplomatic circles. So I did not want to disturb you. Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz> Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz> But it is now the end of september, and samsung versus apple, and a long list of other cases which I am undeniably & verifiably prior art and central to...are at full gear. Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz> Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz> I would really appreciate a relationship with the open source/linux community that unblocks people to cite my work...honestly...unfettered...with all cards on the table for all to see.  And acquiring rights to my IP without further delay would let that happen.  Sep 27 00:23
schestowitzI think that the OIN has always been slow and not so proactive. It is still worth pursuing a good cause rather than act impulsively and reach out for the nearest exit. Should I prod keith a little?Sep 27 00:23
schestowitz"Sep 27 00:54
schestowitz> Roy...I really cannot wait!!!  Yes please prod them to act without further delay!Sep 27 00:54
schestowitz> Sep 27 00:54
schestowitz> I just cannot stall and it is not fair to me and if OIN cannot understand that... while cheering Google on for willfully infringing my IP via Android...precisely because I told Andy Rubin my steve jobs story in the summer of 2007...and the NY times reported only last week that Andy Rubin was rewarded by Google to the tune of "a multimillion dollar bonus" for bringing Android to Google...whereas I have always been unilaterally Sep 27 00:54
schestowitztrying to do the right the brink of homelessness....if OIN is going to be that hypocritical and self righteous...then Bill Gates & Nathan Myhrvold & Acacia might as well be my friends because the "good guys" are no better. Sep 27 00:54
schestowitz> Sep 27 00:54
schestowitz> Please Roy make them do the right thing NOW...this is "the Cuban Missile Crisis" joke.  Sep 27 00:54
schestowitz"Sep 27 00:54
schestowitzurgency...Sep 27 00:57
schestowitzThe patents which have been offered to the OIN are now at danger of falling into the hands of patent trolls. Then delays and lack of progress now jeopardise what can be good deterrence and instead might be used against Linux-powered phones and tablets. If the OIN's goal is to take patents off the hands of trolls or prevent these from getting there, action is needed more urgently.Sep 27 00:57
schestowitzThe OIN is being slow and lazySep 27 00:59
schestowitzAt peril to Linux..Sep 27 00:59
schestowitzDon't know why they are being so passive..Sep 27 00:59
schestowitzThis guy could make a killing  as a patent trollSep 27 00:59
schestowitzI've also started some companies of my own... but would never have though of trying to create a firm to attack Microsoft and Apple with patentsSep 27 00:59
schestowitzThis guy might be able to do itSep 27 00:59
schestowitzPlan B is, start a NPE whose whole purpose is to remove or attempt to remove Apple/Microsoft products out of the market. VC could probably be gained from it and the net effect is still beneficial to Linux, as means of deterrence. It has always been a good strategy, as long as you hit the bad guys only with those patents. The bad guys are those who strike first (patent aggressors) to sell their monopoly wares...Sep 27 01:02
schestowitzThe important point is, the patents must not reach patent trolls as they would be eager to attack the good guys too. If needed, I can try to help raise VC for legal actions against Microsoft/Apple.Sep 27 01:03
schestowitz> Roy...I am all for an NPE to act on behalf of Linux/Open Source...its a "taste of their own medicine" approach. Sep 27 01:15
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:15
schestowitz> But whether its VC money or OIN...the bottom line is somebody HAS to compensate me something now. NOW! If ...Sep 27 01:16
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:16
schestowitz because we always tried to do the right thing while literally no one else did...andSep 27 01:16
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:16
schestowitz no one not even the "good guys" would even bother to throw out a life jacket...all while keeping me onSep 27 01:16
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:16
schestowitzreserve for their own agenda and benefit...then plain and simple they deserve to have bill gates dismantle their existence. Sep 27 01:16
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:16
schestowitzI have been extremely gracious and patient literally a life time but everybody just wants to kill me. Sep 27 01:16
schestowitzI understand... and there will hopefully be a response from Keith shortly, or even I shall phone him.Sep 27 01:16
schestowitz> Roy,Sep 27 01:18
schestowitz>    Hi.    Thanks for the note but the applicability and relevance of patents to particular targets is our area of expertise.   We have been bending over backwards to see the relevance of these patents but at this phase they do not appear to meet the typical high standards of applicability that would trigger acquisition.   We only purchase dead on reads not troll bait - that is the province of RPX, AST and other corporate patent Sep 27 01:19
schestowitzbuying clubs.Sep 27 01:19
schestowitz>    We do not let good and relevant patents get away - period.  We face purposeful and/or  incidental misrepresentation of patent claim relevance on a regular basis and have developed a sophisticated process of analyzing patents and separating the relevant from the irrelevant.Sep 27 01:19
schestowitz>    So, while we appreciate the note and we are on top of this and will continue to prosecute our responsibilities in support of the mission with passion and rigor.Sep 27 01:19
schestowitz> Best,Sep 27 01:19
schestowitz> KeithSep 27 01:19
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schestowitzhmmm...Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> That is a tricky reply from OIN!Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> If that were true...why have they agreed that Groklaw would suppress info about me???Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> If my patents were no good...then they are the equivalent of public domain publications...and they are indisputably prior art against why conceal me??Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> OIN is lying and gaming the system!Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> I suspected they would ever since that Raffi character emailed me that rettarded analysis of his which wreaked of technical retardation. Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> This tells me oin is in collusion with Google...which had probably offered them a quid pro quo deal that requires they screw me...but suppress info about me too. Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> They are fools...because by doing so they have forfeit the right to play the high ground...any action they take now is laced with conspiracy to obstruct justice and fraud...they damned themselves because of their egos and trickiness!Sep 27 01:45
schestowitz> Roy...I sensed that on numerous occasions you wanted to tell my story but backed out. Only you know what happened but I was personally wondering whether your "american friends" told you to not mention me. Sep 27 02:23
schestowitzNo, they have never told me so. I personally never liked their secrecy. A lot of these patent affairs are shady IMHO. It's all, collusion and deterrence. It's part of the corruption I habitually speak about.Sep 27 02:23
schestowitz> If so...why would they do that?  I am prior art against apple - period. Why suppress that?  As groklaw has all along. Sep 27 02:23
schestowitzgroklaw is close to OIN. It's also run by the Peer2Patent guy. I trust Groklaw, but only to a degree.Sep 27 02:23
schestowitz> As for raffi gostanian...I have faced people like him all my life.  Literally no one...not even infringing companies said what he said...that "no one practices these patented steps". That is so moronic as to be laughable. Raffi's sole accomplishment in life is riding on keith's coat tails...supposedly as his "technical expert". More like frustrated loser trying to sabotage honest people even if it hurts his boss's mission. Sep 27 02:23
schestowitzWell, I don't know anything about him, so can't comment on it.Sep 27 02:23
schestowitz> Their account is full of lies...and lies come with inconsistencies. They cannot reveal me because the truth doesn't support their story. Sep 27 02:23
schestowitzThe OIN was probably the best shot, but they again confirmed to me that FOSS can't quite rely on the OIN, just massive FOSS companies. :-(Sep 27 02:23
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schestowitz> Roy,Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> Being called a patent troll by bergelt (FUCK that crooked liar) is probably the biggest insult ever.  I am extremely honest. Its because people like him spend their lives lying they think other people do.  Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> This is not new. Most people aren't PhD/british-scientist types like you roy.  I could sense from th start that Gostanian was going to sabotage everything. Losers who have no talent and nothing but anger at their own worthlessness always try to destroy good things.  Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> Fuck him!  Bill gates is my saint now. And I will do all I can to help msft defeat android/open source/linux.  Bill gates never pretended to be a saint...duh...that would be bergelt and his gang. Sep 27 09:03
schestowitzTrust me, Gates is a terrible exploiter and user. bergelt is more of an IBM type, like the predecessor Rosenthal who came from IBM.Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> People can lie and cheat but truth drives the universe. Everyone cloned the iPhone/iPad because Apple did not invent it and cannot stop them. Google has Android becasue andy rubin led Google's effort to steal apple's product knowing it came from me. Now the truth is...msft will strike back knowing keiths people cannot do anything about it and android is every bit as stolen as the iPhone. You said just this morning on techrights...Sep 27 09:03
schestowitzmsft is hardly in the smartphone business. Why do you think that is????  Because gates knows the iPhones origin and  his harvard pride and understanding of willful the son of a lawyer...prevented him. They had no hesitation with killing netscape...or fighting nintendo...or making GUI OS's. Why sit out something as important as smartphones and tablets?Sep 27 09:03
schestowitzMicrosoft is just trying to drive competition out of business, harming people like yourself. Please do not help them.Sep 27 09:03
schestowitz> Watch the pendulum swing in msft's favor --- thanks to bergelt and his idiot monkey brain "expert" gostanian.   I am extremely honest!  Fuck them! And if OIN gets money from Google...msft will thank them for that "coincidence". Sep 27 09:03
schestowitzJust please do not help Microsoft in any way... nor Apple. It would not be the ethical thing to do.Sep 27 09:03
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schestowitzspammers strike today,..Sep 27 13:52
schestowitzOn 9/27/11 12:16 PM, Roy Schestowitz wrote:Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> Hi, Roy,Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> A few minutes after I unblocked, the page wasSep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> vandalized:Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >>Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >>Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> Sep 27 13:52
schestowitzI've rolled back the changes and blocked the IP number again, but itSep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> is problematic because I think it is the IP number for theSep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> site's proxy/cache.  Blocking it blocks everybody, not just theSep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> >> malfeasant.Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz>> Truly interesting.. Is that scripted spam?Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz> Sep 27 13:52
schestowitz> I'm guessing it is automated in some way.  The problem is that theSep 27 13:52
schestowitz> Wiki is not seeing the real IP addresses of authors and is seeing theSep 27 13:52
schestowitz> world from one or two addresses only.  I've left it so people canSep 27 13:52
schestowitz> create an account and log in.Sep 27 13:52
schestowitzCurrently they cannot create accounts as I disabled this two weeks ago to ikpede a torrent of new profile spam. :/Sep 27 13:52
schestowitzEither way, as long as people can at least /view/ all pages and now be incorrectly blocked, that's great.Sep 27 13:52
oiaohmHmmmSep 27 13:53
oiaohmschestowitz:  You have read this.Sep 27 13:57
oiaohmYou can make varnish-cache pass forwards the the IP where the request is comeing from.Sep 27 13:57
oiaohmschestowitz: adding posts must be approved option for suspect IP address ranges.Sep 27 13:59
oiaohmschestowitz: so avoid spam being directly displayed.Sep 27 13:59
oiaohmschestowitz: I guess afkSep 27 13:59
oiaohmschestowitz: also some proxy locations add extras of the user behind the proxy so allowing you to weed out those hidding behind the proxy.Sep 27 14:01
schestowitzhey oiaohmSep 27 14:12
schestowitzI wondered where you were 2 days agoSep 27 14:13
schestowitzThought you had existed the "battleground"Sep 27 14:13
oiaohmBeen busySep 27 14:13
schestowitzoiaohm: I think we can't tell "good" IPs and "bad" ones as the spammers use a big poolSep 27 14:14
schestowitzSo 2 weeks ago we blocked new regsSep 27 14:14
schestowitzall of themSep 27 14:14
schestowitzTo see the effectSep 27 14:14
schestowitzbut we got spam from anon usersSep 27 14:14
schestowitzmany IPsSep 27 14:14
schestowitzoiaohm: maybe "busy" in a  good waySep 27 14:14
schestowitzI got some clients for my businessSep 27 14:14
oiaohmStudySep 27 14:14
oiaohmRedoing certification.Sep 27 14:14
schestowitzand a worker here tooSep 27 14:14
oiaohmSux form of busy.Sep 27 14:15
schestowitzoiaohm: do you still have time for contract work?Sep 27 14:15
oiaohmYes but as with all things certification have to be redone every so often.Sep 27 14:15
oiaohmI also did a extra so I can do network cabling in about 2 weeks time.Sep 27 14:15
oiaohmAfter I get all the paper work.Sep 27 14:16
schestowitzsounds like a route to a good jobSep 27 14:16
schestowitzI have a friend here, Greg, who moved back to AussieSep 27 14:16
schestowitzHe sold his house at a loss and moved to the UKSep 27 14:16
schestowitzGot two kids and wifeSep 27 14:16
schestowitzAnd his job here didn't go too wellSep 27 14:16
schestowitzBad economySep 27 14:16
oiaohmWith the unknown attackers.Sep 27 14:16
schestowitzSo he found a job to pay him twice as much in AussieSep 27 14:16
oiaohmThere are a few things you can try.Sep 27 14:17
schestowitzAnd sold the house here at a loss (again)Sep 27 14:17
oiaohmBecause there is a chance its a bot network.Sep 27 14:17
schestowitzI heard civil engineers are in high demand in AussieSep 27 14:17
schestowitzIn the asuana last year there was a guy who came to the UK just to poach civil engineersSep 27 14:17
schestowitzHe said they pick fresher/undergrads as soon as possible as Aussie doesn't have enough of themSep 27 14:17
oiaohmAfter all the natural disasters we have had recently there is a lot of repair work still todo.Sep 27 14:17
schestowitzI don't know about cisco certSep 27 14:18
schestowitzbut more connection points are always neededSep 27 14:18
schestowitzoiaohm: not just the floods?Sep 27 14:18
schestowitzAny other things?Sep 27 14:18
oiaohmFloods fires cyclones.Sep 27 14:18
schestowitzthis guy who is a civil engineers will be paid 60k a year (pounds)Sep 27 14:18
oiaohmYes we had the lot in a 3 year time frame.Sep 27 14:18
schestowitzhe got paid gbp 30k hereSep 27 14:19
schestowitzdoubling just like thatSep 27 14:19
oiaohmIe the work from the first lot was not fixed when the next hit.Sep 27 14:19
schestowitzbut he says it's much more expensive to live in .auSep 27 14:19
oiaohmEverything is fine if we get one of these events every 15 years.Sep 27 14:19
schestowitzThe impression I get is that Aussie doesn't suffer from much of a credit crunchSep 27 14:19
oiaohmYes and no.Sep 27 14:19
oiaohmDepends who you talk to.Sep 27 14:19
oiaohmLot of retail is badly hurt because people are not spending.Sep 27 14:20
schestowitzah..Sep 27 14:20
oiaohmbecause its not lot harder to get credit these days.Sep 27 14:20
schestowitzSo, let me guessSep 27 14:20
schestowitzlike in the US, where:Sep 27 14:20
schestowitzif you have a decent job, you worry not, but is not employable then quite harsh?Sep 27 14:20
oiaohmNo one is losing houses or anything like that.Sep 27 14:20
schestowitzin the Uk there are coucil housesSep 27 14:20
schestowitzSo nobody starves or left without housingSep 27 14:21
schestowitzI think that's a US thingSep 27 14:21
oiaohmAnd we have a decent welfare system and lot of jobs.Sep 27 14:21
schestowitzCaravan and tent citiesSep 27 14:21
oiaohmie Mining here for china is still going very well.Sep 27 14:21
schestowitzOr people without access to GPs who die from simple illnesssesSep 27 14:21
schestowitzoiaohm: China?Sep 27 14:21
schestowitzBTWSep 27 14:21
oiaohmJapan messed up has hurt our farmers.Sep 27 14:21
schestowitzI have some mates in Singapore and mAlaysiaSep 27 14:21
schestowitzIt's booming thereSep 27 14:21
oiaohmExactlySep 27 14:21
schestowitzSome of them are loadedSep 27 14:21
schestowitzToday I met one girl from thereSep 27 14:22
oiaohmAustralia provided most of the steal for the asian area.Sep 27 14:22
schestowitzMy friend's Sep 27 14:22
schestowitzcousin as been allocated a Hall of Residence that she did notSep 27 14:22
schestowitzchoose. Essentially the Accommodation Office shafted her and would sendSep 27 14:22
schestowitzher back and forth (looping) without much of a chance of getting a HallSep 27 14:22
schestowitzof her choice. The Office is good at doing that to new internationalSep 27 14:22
schestowitzstudents who are not assertive. I had to help her out and we finallySep 27 14:22
schestowitzfound a much better apartment for her in a modern hall, which is a bitSep 27 14:22
schestowitzexpensive but at least something that she likes. It's not quite over yetSep 27 14:22
oiaohmSame with coking coal for steal working also most of that comes from Australia.Sep 27 14:22
schestowitzand tomorrow we must get the key and make the payment as they made anSep 27 14:22
schestowitzexception to make the move as fast as possible (she can move inSep 27 14:22
schestowitztomorrow). Surely it has been stressful for her, but finally she gotSep 27 14:22
schestowitzsomething she is happy with. Now I need to speak to the administrationSep 27 14:22
schestowitzand explain the situation to them so that she can transition as smoothlySep 27 14:22
schestowitzas possible and impose no penalties (which I doubt they would, theySep 27 14:22
schestowitzalready have the deposit).Sep 27 14:22
schestowitzsteel, yeahSep 27 14:22
schestowitzcarves off the mountainsSep 27 14:23
schestowitzI saw some vidros on thatSep 27 14:23
schestowitzselling natural resourcesSep 27 14:23
schestowitzeasy transportation to China, I guessSep 27 14:23
schestowitzThye colect metalsSep 27 14:23
oiaohmYep.Sep 27 14:23
schestowitzI think Canada has a similar scenarioSep 27 14:23
oiaohmAustralia is not badly effected by the meltdown.Sep 27 14:23
oiaohmBigger problem was japan reactors going bang.Sep 27 14:23
schestowitzcan happen in Chian toSep 27 14:24
oiaohmso upsetting a few ports that Australia was sending stuff to japan.Sep 27 14:24
schestowitzCablegate had some leaked cables about China's old nuclear facilitiesSep 27 14:24
schestowitzOld generation onesSep 27 14:24
schestowitzmaybe like ChernobylSep 27 14:24
oiaohmAnd some of the factorties Australia was supply with materials in japan are no more.Sep 27 14:24
oiaohmReally this is the thing.Sep 27 14:24
schestowitzwell, at leas .au has natural resourcesSep 27 14:25
schestowitzUnlike EuropeSep 27 14:25
oiaohmMost of the asian area is not effected by the econmic melt down.Sep 27 14:25
schestowitzIn France, Germaqny, UK, Spain there's high density of populationSep 27 14:25
oiaohmBig problem is manderinsSep 27 14:25
schestowitzAnd many of the forests are no moreSep 27 14:25
schestowitzJust agra-land and urban placesSep 27 14:25
oiaohmWe grow a specal type just for the japan market.Sep 27 14:25
oiaohmThe suffering they have had they are not buying as much of them.Sep 27 14:25
schestowitzic...Sep 27 14:25
oiaohmBasically retail and farming have taken hits.Sep 27 14:26
oiaohmThen with all our natural disasters.Sep 27 14:26
oiaohmNote the natural disasters is costing use more than the finance meltdown.Sep 27 14:26
schestowitzhow much?Sep 27 14:27
schestowitz30 million people don't have much infrastructureSep 27 14:27
schestowitzbtw, when hurricane andrew hit florida my cousin made a lot of moneySep 27 14:27
oiaohmYou are kidding right.Sep 27 14:27
schestowitzCause they had to rebuildSep 27 14:27
schestowitzthe loser then was the US taxpayerSep 27 14:27
oiaohmRebuild cost from the floods is about 40 billion.Sep 27 14:27
oiaohmIn goverment infrastructure destoryedSep 27 14:28
schestowitzso about AU$1000 per personSep 27 14:28
oiaohmYep.Sep 27 14:28
schestowitzuit's not as bad as the debt hereSep 27 14:28
schestowitzmaybe like $100,000 per personSep 27 14:28
schestowitzorders of magnitude apartSep 27 14:28
oiaohmThe finance stablistation cost us about 12 billion.Sep 27 14:28
schestowitzThe Eu-wise system is on the brink of credit collapseSep 27 14:29
schestowitzThat's what the radio tells me each moprningSep 27 14:29
oiaohmOur banks are stable.Sep 27 14:29
schestowitzI distrust the radio on most things, but I don't think it's just a false claim/illusion of panicSep 27 14:29
oiaohmThey were not allows to invest more than 15 percent in suspect stuff.Sep 27 14:29
oiaohmYes they got hurt but hey a bank losing 15 percent is livable.Sep 27 14:29
schestowitzthere's talk not about multi-trillion inection into EU nations to resucre themSep 27 14:29
schestowitzIt just procrastinates everythungSep 27 14:30
schestowitzI'm lucky to be on an ERC grants that runs till 2015Sep 27 14:30
oiaohmYep you are kinda screwed over there.Sep 27 14:30
schestowitzUS tooSep 27 14:30
oiaohmYour banking regulators suxed.Sep 27 14:30
schestowitz1:10 ratioSep 27 14:30
schestowitzFor borrowingSep 27 14:30
oiaohmAustralia had really strong banking regulators.Sep 27 14:30
schestowitzSo I could start a bank with $1000Sep 27 14:30
oiaohmReason great depressionSep 27 14:30
schestowitzAnd lend out $10,000Sep 27 14:30
oiaohmYou are aware in the great depression here in Australia every one of our banks folded.Sep 27 14:31
schestowitzbased on the assumption ogf growth and assurance of paybackSep 27 14:31
oiaohmInclude the goverment back ones.Sep 27 14:31
schestowitzBut then people lose their jobs and houses (assurance) lose value tooSep 27 14:31
oiaohmSo there was some very strict rules created after that.Sep 27 14:31
schestowitzand the bank cannot even pay the money it pretended to have 'stored' for the customer that 'saved'Sep 27 14:31
schestowitz1:10Sep 27 14:31
schestowitzIn the UKSep 27 14:31
schestowitzCRACY!!Sep 27 14:31
oiaohmBiggest issue is no such thing as a simple credit card.Sep 27 14:31
oiaohmany more here.Sep 27 14:31
schestowitzMeans you generate 10 times as much money as there isSep 27 14:31
schestowitzJust printing out guarnatees for housing an constructionSep 27 14:32
schestowitz"Go spend $10,000... I have $1,00)Sep 27 14:32
oiaohmReason regulators spat chips at a few banks here when they started check the country out.Sep 27 14:32
schestowitzThe credit system depends on growthSep 27 14:32
oiaohmIe people without means to pay back credit cards backed by usa money had been issued.Sep 27 14:32
schestowitzAnd when there's financial collapse people don't have many idsSep 27 14:32
schestowitzi.e. no growthSep 27 14:32
oiaohmSo yes Australia is one of the reason the USA is so screwed up.Sep 27 14:32
schestowitzAnd then we might end up like USSR as of lateSep 27 14:32
schestowitzAnd now Russia with nagative growthSep 27 14:33
schestowitzAnd immigattion away from it too, not just low brth ratesSep 27 14:33
oiaohmSince the regulator spat chips here over it and ruled those cards never had to be paid back.Sep 27 14:33
oiaohmFastest way to fix up the EU problem is just reset the money.Sep 27 14:33
oiaohmIe the debt what debtSep 27 14:33
oiaohmWe lost it.Sep 27 14:33
schestowitzgolobal currency?Sep 27 14:33
schestowitzof devalues value?Sep 27 14:33
schestowitz*devaluedSep 27 14:33
schestowitzone might as well buy property, gold, silver, etc.Sep 27 14:34
oiaohmOne of our near by countries solved it very warped.Sep 27 14:34
oiaohmThey allocated a square meter of land.Sep 27 14:34
oiaohmAnd gave it the value of the debtSep 27 14:34
schestowitzhmmm..Sep 27 14:34
schestowitzThe UK sells out land nowSep 27 14:34
oiaohmSo no more debt it was paid by a square meter of land.Sep 27 14:34
schestowitzA friend of mine bought s forestSep 27 14:34
schestowitzcheaplySep 27 14:34
schestowitzNot public property anymoreSep 27 14:34
schestowitzPeople owning parts of the UJKSep 27 14:34
schestowitzBut this guy is an environmentalistSep 27 14:35
schestowitzbought it to defend itSep 27 14:35
oiaohmThat is the problem.Sep 27 14:35
oiaohmIn some ways it better in your environmentalist friends hands than the govermentSep 27 14:36
oiaohmIf the country is going to default to the world bank.Sep 27 14:36
oiaohmBack to these pest spammers.Sep 27 14:36
schestowitzwho runs the WB really?Sep 27 14:37
schestowitzI could try to answer thatSep 27 14:37
schestowitzbut WB and IMF are a taf shady to meSep 27 14:37
schestowitzI know WIPO is in genevaSep 27 14:37
MinceRilluminatiSep 27 14:37
schestowitzAnd WTO is run by the usual suspectsSep 27 14:37
oiaohmI guess you have consider capchs(ok those stupid test things)Sep 27 14:37
schestowitzBut which nations and people are behind the debt machine?Sep 27 14:38
oiaohmWB is the IMF and they are the USA.Sep 27 14:38
schestowitzMinceR: ender :-)Sep 27 14:38
schestowitzhe's in COLA nowSep 27 14:38
schestowitzHelping some  trolls against Linux advocatesSep 27 14:38
MinceRwell, if ender ran the WB/IMF, that would be a sort of twistSep 27 14:38
oiaohmThe IMF is the old name for the WBSep 27 14:38
MinceRi thought they still called it IMFSep 27 14:38
schestowitzWB reminds me of USSep 27 14:38
schestowitzUNSep 27 14:38
schestowitzIn the sense that it's kind of without bordersSep 27 14:38
schestowitzJust plutocratsSep 27 14:38
MinceR(not Impossible Mission Force)Sep 27 14:38
oiaohmMinceR: they use IMF when they want to sound international.Sep 27 14:38
MinceRicSep 27 14:39
schestowitzRich men's clubSep 27 14:39
oiaohmMinceR:  they use WB when they want to sound USA.Sep 27 14:39
schestowitzWithouy home country, just floating around appointing leadersSep 27 14:39
MinceRthat explains why they aren't called WB hereSep 27 14:39
MinceRofficiallySep 27 14:39
oiaohmOfficially the IMF does not exist any more.Sep 27 14:39
oiaohmyet its name is still usedSep 27 14:39
schestowitz[14:38] <oiaohm> WB is the IMF and they are the USASep 27 14:39
schestowitzI didn't know they are interchangeableSep 27 14:40
oiaohmthe IMF offically these days is just a sub branch of the WBSep 27 14:40
schestowitzBut they have some leaders there who are not USiansSep 27 14:40
schestowitzjust bankers that float around because of their power and weigfhtSep 27 14:40
schestowitzso do you think WB might try to estabvlish a new currency when the EU and USD get too wobbly to even repay their own deficitSep 27 14:41
MinceRwikipedia says they're somewhat distinct organizationsSep 27 14:42
MinceRschestowitz: yuan?Sep 27 14:42
schestowitznoanSep 27 14:42
schestowitzbut thanks anyway :-)Sep 27 14:42
oiaohmMinceR: when you look at there operations they are not what you call distinct.Sep 27 14:42
oiaohmIMF and WB use to be 100 percent independant.Sep 27 14:43
oiaohmOver time IMF merged into WB.Sep 27 14:43
schestowitz[14:42] <MinceR> wikipedia says they're somewhat distinct organizations   << so I wasn't too far offSep 27 14:43
schestowitzoiaohm: that's different thenSep 27 14:44
schestowitzit's not a renameSep 27 14:44
schestowitzor rebrandSep 27 14:44
schestowitzBut more of a passage of functionalitySep 27 14:44
schestowitzor consolidation of powerSep 27 14:44
oiaohmBut you notice WB and IMF reps being the same person today.  schestowitzSep 27 14:45
oiaohmSo in a lot of cases they are no longer distinctSep 27 14:45
oiaohmand more how the person want to repesent self.Sep 27 14:45
schestowitzyeah, I guess because of historically  significany things though they cannot be treated as synonymousSep 27 14:46
schestowitzI guess the wikipedia will be valndalised by theoristsSep 27 14:46
schestowitzlike some idiot would enter "freemasonic" stuff into itSep 27 14:46
oiaohmIMF role is kinda evil.Sep 27 14:46
oiaohmThey are to control tradeSep 27 14:46
oiaohmand restrict trade on countries that cannot pay there debts.Sep 27 14:47
oiaohmWB lends you the money so you can fix stuff up.Sep 27 14:47
oiaohmSo in operations they are highly interlinkedSep 27 14:47
oiaohmIMF is the debt collectorSep 27 14:47
oiaohmWB is the bugger who lent you the money in the first place you cannot pay back.Sep 27 14:48
schestowitzthey're slave tradersSep 27 14:48
schestowitzthey turn a nation's kids into wage slavesSep 27 14:48
schestowitzall for almight "IP"Sep 27 14:48
oiaohmWB is more a broker locaitons.Sep 27 14:48
schestowitzI hate themSep 27 14:48
schestowitz!google world bank techrightsSep 27 14:48
oiaohmWB is where the USA is getting moeny from china threw.Sep 27 14:49
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schestowitz!google world bank techrightsSep 27 14:49
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oiaohmMostly is a screwed up system.Sep 27 14:49
schestowitzsame patent freaksSep 27 14:49
schestowitzgates there tooSep 27 14:49
schestowitzdonating 'IP\Sep 27 14:49
oiaohmThe WB could fix the matter by simply falling on it swordSep 27 14:49
oiaohmAnd saying all debts between all countries will reset todaySep 27 14:50
oiaohmAnd we will start a fresh.Sep 27 14:50
schestowitzinterestingSep 27 14:50
oiaohmBut there are big problems.Sep 27 14:50
schestowitzso maybe the US inevsting in a war machine wouldpay offSep 27 14:50
oiaohmLot of countries will not be under the thumb of the world bank any more.Sep 27 14:51
schestowitzthey could tell the world's lenders to sod off and then use nuclear deterrenceSep 27 14:51
oiaohmChina could be pissed off.Sep 27 14:51
schestowitzsadly for them china has probablyt enough to nuke the US out of existenceSep 27 14:51
schestowitzWheres China is less interdependent and better distributedSep 27 14:51
oiaohmReally lot of nukes in all countries would fail to go off.Sep 27 14:51
schestowitzSomeone who was in the army told me China would be good at warSep 27 14:51
schestowitzTheir population is adaptabel to strikesSep 27 14:51
oiaohmReason they have not been renewed.Sep 27 14:51
oiaohmPeople are not aware of that.Sep 27 14:51
schestowitzThey also have underground cities like here in ManchesterSep 27 14:51
schestowitzI don't think the US has such infrastructureSep 27 14:52
oiaohmurandum in war heads has to be redone about every 30 years.Sep 27 14:52
schestowitzNot even for fallbacks and safety netsSep 27 14:52
oiaohmIf you don't and you fire themSep 27 14:52
schestowitzWhich is what the military made the Internet for (distributed)Sep 27 14:52
oiaohmThey are just a dirty bomb not a nuke.Sep 27 14:52
oiaohmUSA has not been redoing there nukesSep 27 14:53
oiaohmNeither has chinaSep 27 14:53
schestowitzhow old are china's?Sep 27 14:53
oiaohmreason they don't have a waste dump to put the by products of redoing them in.Sep 27 14:53
oiaohmAbout 20 years.  schestowitzSep 27 14:53
schestowitzAlso, I am not sure they have to redo the whole centrifuge routine all over againSep 27 14:53
oiaohmSo getting suspect.Sep 27 14:53
schestowitzThey already have most of it refined and in placeSep 27 14:53
schestowitzso a freshening process is probably something they're capable of even within wartimeSep 27 14:54
oiaohmschestowitz: No its redo the centrifuge to remove the lead and other degraded products from it.Sep 27 14:54
oiaohmthen dispose of that waste somewhere.Sep 27 14:54
schestowitzcan they not just process these in nuclear plants for energy?Sep 27 14:55
schestowitzI guess GE and nuke energy got a bad reputation after f*kushimaSep 27 14:55
oiaohmnuclaer plants need a lower grade of material.Sep 27 14:55
oiaohmBasically expired weapons grade is perfectly fine in nuclaer power plants.Sep 27 14:56
oiaohmUSA issue is they don't even have waste dumps to take there current nuclaer power plants waste.Sep 27 14:56
oiaohmWithout redoing there weapons and producing even more waste to dispose of.Sep 27 14:57
schestowitzbtwSep 27 14:57
schestowitztoday in the newsSep 27 14:57
schestowitzBAE fired 3,000 workersSep 27 14:57
schestowitzit's an arms giant in the UKSep 27 14:57
oiaohmChina is about equally stuffed up.Sep 27 14:57
schestowitznot sure if it's bad newsSep 27 14:57
oiaohmBAE long form please.Sep 27 14:57
schestowitzless weaponsSep 27 14:57
schestowitzbut more unemployedSep 27 14:57
schestowitzsome are based in YorkshoreSep 27 14:58
schestowitz*shireSep 27 14:58
*abeNd-org (~KKlenke@ has joined #boycottnovellSep 27 14:58
oiaohmBAE systems?Sep 27 14:59
schestowitz!google baeSep 27 14:59
TechrightsBot[1] - BAE Systems | 27 14:59
TechrightsBot[2] - United States - BAE Systems | 27 14:59
TechrightsBot[3] - Careers - BAE Systems | 27 14:59
TechrightsBot[4] - BAE Systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | 27 14:59
schestowitzEmployeesSep 27 14:59
schestowitz107,000 (2010Sep 27 14:59
schestowitzdidn't realise it was *that* bigSep 27 15:00
oiaohmThat is why I was asking.Sep 27 15:00
oiaohmBAE systems 3000 workers is nothing.Sep 27 15:00
schestowitz3000 familiesSep 27 15:00
schestowitzit's little relative to the companySep 27 15:01
schestowitznot relative to the nationSep 27 15:01
schestowitzit's like 100 small companies dyingSep 27 15:01
oiaohm  We are waiting on the first one of these to come into operationSep 27 15:06
TechrightsBotTitle: Canberra class landing helicopter dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 77.87 KBSep 27 15:06
oiaohmschestowitz: read the crew numbers.Sep 27 15:08
oiaohmThen think size boatSep 27 15:08
schestowitzJust 2 built?Sep 27 15:10
schestowitzWell, I guess you're a small populationSep 27 15:10
oiaohmCrew of under 300 to operate the complete ship.Sep 27 15:12
oiaohmNote we have had no aircraft cariors of any from for many years.Sep 27 15:12
oiaohmAfter the last one run another ship down and sunk it and damaged it self past repair.Sep 27 15:13
schestowitzhow many people in US carriers of the largest scale?Sep 27 15:14
schestowitzsometime told me like a stadiumSep 27 15:14
schestowitzthe US uses those to keeps overseas presence while it occupies and imposes its system on other nationsSep 27 15:14
schestowitzThey can move whole armies like thatSep 27 15:14
oiaohmNote our ships are being design to be smallSep 27 15:15
oiaohmAlso our ships don't have a nuke power plant.Sep 27 15:16
oiaohmThese ships are being designed for the likes of temor and near by natural disasters.Sep 27 15:16
oiaohmjets are almost completetly useless in natural disaster messes.Sep 27 15:17
schestowitzhow many fit in a carrier? elt's see.Sep 27 15:17
schestowitz 27 15:18
TechrightsBotTitle: USS Cole (DDG-67) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 55.08 KBSep 27 15:18
schestowitzThis one is very smallSep 27 15:19
schestowitzttp:// 27 15:20
schestowitz300 tons of bombsSep 27 15:20
schestowitz 27 15:20
TechrightsBotTitle: Big Bigger Biggest Aircraft Carrier Part 1       - YouTube .::. Size~: 87.1 KBSep 27 15:20
oiaohmAustralian is a odd combination.Sep 27 15:21
oiaohm6 lifts max of 24 helcoptors in shipSep 27 15:22
oiaohmand straight launch and recovery from top of liftSep 27 15:22
schestowitzthis one carries 90 planes iircSep 27 15:22
schestowitzand has a whole city under the deckSep 27 15:22
oiaohmNote planesSep 27 15:22
oiaohmAustralian for where we operate that one is worthless.Sep 27 15:22
oiaohmToo deep on waterSep 27 15:23
oiaohmAnd what good are planes when you are dealing with islands.Sep 27 15:23
oiaohmWithout runways.Sep 27 15:23
oiaohmAlso due to using the russian design runway.Sep 27 15:25
oiaohmThe Australian one can launch and recieve aircraft while stopped.Sep 27 15:26
oiaohmMain reason for only building 2 is most likely the next 2 will be a different design to the firstSep 27 15:30
oiaohmAs we find bugs.Sep 27 15:30
schestowitzwhat happens if moving slowly?Sep 27 15:30
schestowitzbugs=crashes?Sep 27 15:30
oiaohmMaybe not crashesSep 27 15:30
oiaohmBig one is the back of it.Sep 27 15:31
oiaohmfor amfibuse usageSep 27 15:31
oiaohmI think the rating is a little low.Sep 27 15:31
oiaohmSea State 4Sep 27 15:32
oiaohmIs fairly nice weather.Sep 27 15:32
oiaohmI think you would want to be able to send landing craft out in worseSep 27 15:32
oiaohm1.25 to 2.5 is not even cyclone chop.Sep 27 15:33
oiaohmIn my eyes it should have been at least Sea State 5Sep 27 15:34
oiaohm2.5 metres to 4 metresSep 27 15:34
oiaohmAt that level you could use the cover of weather to attack.Sep 27 15:35
oiaohmRussia lauch design tollerate moving at a reasonable speed in the wrong direction and still take off safely.Sep 27 15:37
oiaohmIe ship never needs to be moving so never should run over an aircraft taking off.Sep 27 15:38
oiaohmLot of usa aircraft cariers have to be moving at speed to send aircraft off.Sep 27 15:38
schestowitzin which direction?Sep 27 15:39
schestowitzI guess they can speed up the planeSep 27 15:39
schestowitzWhen t reaches the end and gets off the deckSep 27 15:39
schestowitzHow fast can the carrier go anyway? Maybe a few knots?Sep 27 15:40
oiaohmNo to make runway longer.Sep 27 15:40
schestowitzbut waitSep 27 15:40
oiaohmIe usa aircraft cariers have to be going forwards at quite a few knots so aircraft can take off.Sep 27 15:40
schestowitzthey then slow is down relative to the groundSep 27 15:40
schestowitzhow would that be good?Sep 27 15:40
oiaohmThey can land them still.Sep 27 15:41
schestowitzlandign yeahSep 27 15:41
schestowitzmoving along with the planeSep 27 15:41
schestowitzBut opposite when taking offSep 27 15:41
oiaohmrelative to ground is not the issue.Sep 27 15:41
schestowitzalso, takeoff and landing are slowSep 27 15:41
schestowitzmaybe 200 mphSep 27 15:41
oiaohmrelative to air is the issue.Sep 27 15:41
schestowitzor lessSep 27 15:41
oiaohmThe ramp is the trick.Sep 27 15:41
schestowitzso 30 mph for a ship would improve the distance by a factor of about 6Sep 27 15:42
schestowitzin mean 1/6Sep 27 15:42
schestowitzramp?Sep 27 15:42
oiaohmtaking off flat you need more speed forwards to get off ground.Sep 27 15:42
schestowitzWhen they reach the end they sort of fallSep 27 15:42
oiaohmSince engines are not supporting weight of aircraft.Sep 27 15:42
schestowitzAnd then get vertical with the engines pushing off the seaSep 27 15:42
oiaohmAustralian ones have the russian style ram.Sep 27 15:42
schestowitzlike a rocketSep 27 15:42
oiaohmrampSep 27 15:42
schestowitzramp to make them go vertical?Sep 27 15:43
schestowitzlike 45 degree angleSep 27 15:43
oiaohmAt a angle up.Sep 27 15:43
oiaohmbetween 25 to 30 to flatSep 27 15:43
schestowitzit's more like ballistic takeoverSep 27 15:43
oiaohmYepSep 27 15:43
schestowitzthe British plane, harrier IIRC, can take off totally horizontallySep 27 15:43
schestowitzGood for reaching particular placesSep 27 15:44
schestowitzLess useful for landingsSep 27 15:44
oiaohmBut we are not talking harrier fuel eaters here.Sep 27 15:44
schestowitz 27 15:44
oiaohmWe are talking stock standard fighter jets.Sep 27 15:44
TechrightsBotTitle: Harrier Jump Jet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 69.47 KBSep 27 15:44
oiaohmYou reduce the run way lenght required to get air born massively if runway is at an angle.Sep 27 15:44
schestowitzoh, it can land vetriycally too...Sep 27 15:45
oiaohmAt the ed.Sep 27 15:45
oiaohmed/endSep 27 15:45
oiaohmHarrier vetrically take off and land is huge volumes of fuel per min.Sep 27 15:46
oiaohmThinking our ships are not nuke classSep 27 15:46
oiaohmWe have to be fuel effective as well.Sep 27 15:46
oiaohmSo we cannot run like a bat out of hell to extend the run way.Sep 27 15:46
oiaohmie lenght of flight deck better be enough alone.Sep 27 15:46
oiaohmOr your screwed with australian boats.Sep 27 15:46
schestowitzAustralia makes good boatds?!Sep 27 15:50
oiaohmFor what we require at the time yes.Sep 27 15:52
oiaohmLot of the overseas boats like lots of our overseas subs have had there huls redone here for better silent running.Sep 27 15:53
oiaohmOk Australian subs don't exacly do silent running.Sep 27 15:53
oiaohmLets sound like a different make of sub running.Sep 27 15:53
oiaohmYes fun when the Australian dials in russian attack sub in a joint war game operation with the USA by mistake.Sep 27 15:54
oiaohmAustralian idea someone might hear you trying to silent sneak up on a ship.Sep 27 15:58
oiaohmbut if they hear you and they think you are friendly they will let you pass.Sep 27 15:59
schestowitzinteresting stuffSep 27 16:03
schestowitzYou seem to know this stuff very thoroughlySep 27 16:03
oiaohmWeapon system is something I much around with.Sep 27 16:07
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*abeNd-org has quit (Quit: Leaving.)Sep 27 23:02

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