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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: November 12th, 2011

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schestowitz> Hey, it's been five years for BN/Techrights?  That's astounding. Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Where'd the time go? Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Congratulations on those five years, Roy, you've come a long way andNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> have much to be proud of!  I kind of miss the old days on Digg, butNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> haven't been there much these last few years.  I have accounts onNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Diaspora and G+, but not much time to spend on them yet.  Soon, I hope!Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> I have 2 more weeks until I can officially retire.  It's strange makingNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> plans for a new phase of life, I'm feeling happy about it, but also aNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> little sad.  It's been difficult getting my clients to accept that INov 12 08:32
schestowitz> won't be working after this month, they always seem to have "just oneNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> more project" to get finished. Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> In the end, I will probably continue working with a few of them for atNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> least another year, but the most annoying ones will be dropped thisNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> month.  That part's actually been fun.  I don't have to be nice to themNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> anymore, in fact, I don't have to communicate with them at all, everNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> again.  Makes me happy!  :o)Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Anyway, I've been rearranging my work space, and will be getting anotherNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> wacom tablet soon.  I wore my old one out several years ago and I'veNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> missed it.  It's time to get back to what I do best, which is drawingNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> and painting.  My hands are still steady, but my eyes aren't as good asNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> they used to be, so I may have to simplify things a bit. We'll see howNov 12 08:32
schestowitz> it goes.Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Nov 12 08:32
schestowitz> Sorry, I'm rambling.  It's after midnight here and it's been a very longNov 12 08:33
schestowitz> day (and a very hectic week), I think I'm just too tired to sleep.  And,Nov 12 08:33
schestowitz> since I'm wide awake and feeling chatty, I thought I'd send you aNov 12 08:33
schestowitz> message of congratulations and say hi...Hi!...Nov 12 08:33
schestowitz> Nov 12 08:33
schestowitz> Hope you are well and happy! Nov 12 08:33
schestowitz> Take good care,Nov 12 08:33
schestowitzSometimes one's job can feel like one's hobby, or at least as a way of passing one's time and feel needed in society. Techrights was such a projet, but it was not a job. Being a researcher is more like that, which is why there are Emeritus-like stata around. Could retirement mean more available time for work on software freedom?Nov 12 08:33
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schestowitzqu1j0t3: 12 13:04
TechrightsSocialTitle: Michael Moore on Student Debt: 'The Boot on Your Neck'       - YouTube .::. Size~: 120.12 KBNov 12 13:04
schestowitzHe says the same thing you saidNov 12 13:04
qu1j0t3:|Nov 12 13:05
qu1j0t3rightNov 12 13:05
qu1j0t3it's designed to create a slave classNov 12 13:05
qu1j0t3free university is a plank of a classless society ... i.e. anathema to plutocratNov 12 13:06
qu1j0t3that's one aspect. there are other mechanisms here too.Nov 12 13:06
schestowitzyeahNov 12 13:14
schestowitzI heard this from you too and before that from a friend of mineNov 12 13:14
schestowitzI keep haring what I thought I was the only one hypothesisingNov 12 13:14
schestowitzAnd now MooreNov 12 13:14
schestowitzDebt as a handcuffNov 12 13:14
schestowitzAnd banks as rulersNov 12 13:14
schestowitz 12 13:18
TechrightsSocialTitle: Toronto Globe and Mail Seeks Nominees for Technologically Innovative Teachers at  Robert Pogson .::. Size~: 31.78 KBNov 12 13:18
qu1j0t3yes, debt as a handcuff... not a new conceptNov 12 13:24
qu1j0t3it also vaccinates against protestingNov 12 13:24
qu1j0t3to an extentNov 12 13:24
qu1j0t3until ppl have no more to lose , which is why the OWS now, and not 1,2,10 years agoNov 12 13:25
qu1j0t3and also why OWS in other places may not ignite (like Toronto)Nov 12 13:25
qu1j0t3the time isn't rightNov 12 13:25
oiaohmqu1j0t3: There is a issueNov 12 13:26
oiaohmDo you know what would happen if students took the practical path.Nov 12 13:26
oiaohmThis is what is going on here in AustraliaNov 12 13:26
oiaohmMore and more students are not getting debt in the first place.Nov 12 13:27
qu1j0t3oiaohm: does it give you the same kind of qualification in the same period?Nov 12 13:28
qu1j0t3oiaohm: also, that money has to come from somewhere, so it's a dilute facet of the same problemNov 12 13:28
oiaohmWhen the result is short falls in the end it does.Nov 12 13:28
oiaohmResult was more online universities here.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:29
oiaohmSo you go to work and get degree at same time.Nov 12 13:29
qu1j0t3online universities still have to be paidNov 12 13:29
qu1j0t3right, but it's part time.Nov 12 13:29
qu1j0t3and this doesn't work for school leavers, in many casesNov 12 13:29
qu1j0t3because the work available is very limitedNov 12 13:29
qu1j0t3oiaohm: the context for this is the tripling (e.g.) of university fees in the UKNov 12 13:30
oiaohmEven if you do a degree you still might not get a job at the end of it.Nov 12 13:30
qu1j0t3oiaohm: that's an exclusionary measure, and the remainder are indebted... in some cases, forever. in canada, people are beginning to speculate that their debt will be lifelong.Nov 12 13:30
oiaohmonline has less physical costs overhead.Nov 12 13:30
qu1j0t3oiaohm: that's a different issue.Nov 12 13:30
oiaohmWhy are costs going up qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:31
qu1j0t3oiaohm: (getting a job *with* a degree.. of course it's not guaranteed)Nov 12 13:31
qu1j0t3oiaohm: unilateral moves in UK, elsewhereNov 12 13:31
qu1j0t3oiaohm: but quite deliberateNov 12 13:31
oiaohmThat does done here 4 years ago.Nov 12 13:31
qu1j0t3yes, it's been going on for a whileNov 12 13:31
oiaohmAustralians being AustraliansNov 12 13:31
qu1j0t3but recently it became much more aggressiveNov 12 13:31
oiaohmtook the common sence path out.Nov 12 13:32
oiaohmAnd went into the mines.Nov 12 13:32
oiaohmYes oppsNov 12 13:32
oiaohmUniveristes no students.Nov 12 13:32
qu1j0t3yes, that's happening here too, to an extent. Nov 12 13:32
oiaohmAnd the online started filling gaps.Nov 12 13:32
oiaohmWith common sense.Nov 12 13:32
qu1j0t3it doesn't solve the problem though.Nov 12 13:33
oiaohmKinda does.Nov 12 13:33
qu1j0t3it can't :)Nov 12 13:33
schestowitz[13:24] <qu1j0t3> yes, debt as a handcuff... not a new conceptNov 12 13:33
oiaohmPeople working in mines and else where are not really growing a debt.Nov 12 13:33
schestowitzSome people go into debt to do a wedding ceremonyNov 12 13:33
qu1j0t3they're also not getting educated.Nov 12 13:33
oiaohmBut they are getting educated.Nov 12 13:33
schestowitzAnd they pay for it long after the marriage is ruined, in part due to the debtNov 12 13:33
qu1j0t3oiaohm: nope.Nov 12 13:33
oiaohmThat is the thing qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:33
oiaohmHere they are qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:33
qu1j0t3well, part time oiaohmNov 12 13:33
qu1j0t3that isn't the main case under discussion.Nov 12 13:34
oiaohmBut is not the result the same in the end.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:34
qu1j0t3school leavers need full time degrees.Nov 12 13:34
qu1j0t3oiaohm: noNov 12 13:34
oiaohmWhy do school leaves need full time degrees.Nov 12 13:34
oiaohmBe aware you can study full time onlineNov 12 13:34
qu1j0t3oiaohm: in Australia maybe they need that less. but the rest of the world it's mandatoryNov 12 13:34
qu1j0t3oiaohm: usually 2 degrees are a minimum in BRICNov 12 13:34
oiaohmNote full time on line is offered here.Nov 12 13:34
oiaohmSo student can be studying where ever they like.Nov 12 13:35
oiaohmagain this reduces costs.Nov 12 13:35
qu1j0t3it will work for a few.Nov 12 13:35
qu1j0t3but the basic problem remains.Nov 12 13:35
oiaohmNo large accomindation costs Nov 12 13:35
qu1j0t3also: not an option for UK students, where fees are tripling.Nov 12 13:35
qu1j0t3imagine that.Nov 12 13:35
oiaohmWe had a big problem where rural students could not afford to study.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:36
qu1j0t3oiaohm: and now urban ones can't either. outside australia.Nov 12 13:36
oiaohmCosts attending physical buildings is still high here qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:36
oiaohmBecause physical building have limit on how many.Nov 12 13:37
oiaohmIe supply and demard problem.Nov 12 13:37
oiaohmFull time online options sort out a major supply and demard problem.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:37
qu1j0t3there's another phenomenon which Australia and elsewhere all have. university populations are now largely wealthy Chinese/KoreansNov 12 13:37
qu1j0t3locals can't afford them :)Nov 12 13:37
oiaohmonline also sorts that out a lot as well.Nov 12 13:38
qu1j0t3and nor can, say, South Americans, or other relatively less wealthy demographics.Nov 12 13:38
oiaohmBecause they can stay home.Nov 12 13:38
oiaohmThis is the thing qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:38
qu1j0t3oiaohm: I don't see anything good about this situationNov 12 13:38
oiaohmonline provide of university courses sort out the worst problems.Nov 12 13:38
qu1j0t3oiaohm: university should be affordableNov 12 13:38
oiaohmThe online courses allow more students in.Nov 12 13:38
qu1j0t3oiaohm: and it's been deliberately made unaffordableNov 12 13:38
oiaohmSo the cost of the buildings can be shared between more people.Nov 12 13:39
oiaohmSo the fees end up lower.Nov 12 13:39
qu1j0t3hehNov 12 13:39
oiaohmBefore online our uni were going the way of costing doom.Nov 12 13:39
qu1j0t3i don't see fees dropping, do you?Nov 12 13:39
oiaohmLast 2 years here yes.Nov 12 13:39
qu1j0t3tell that to UK studentsNov 12 13:39
qu1j0t3maybe you'll have a wave of young immigrants who can't afford to study in UKNov 12 13:40
oiaohmAll linked to the growth in online study here.Nov 12 13:40
oiaohmIe you cannot charge a higher fee for in building study than online for the same course really.Nov 12 13:40
oiaohmAlso we did have a issue lot of the asian students want australian students when staying at a collage to prac there english with.Nov 12 13:41
oiaohmSo yes the number of free placements has increased in the last 2 so the locals would go to physical instead of staying home.Nov 12 13:42
qu1j0t3"you cannot charge a higher fee for in building study"Nov 12 13:42
qu1j0t3so why are university fees so much higher?Nov 12 13:43
qu1j0t3you can't claim that AND claim that online study makes a degree affordable.Nov 12 13:43
qu1j0t3only one of them can be trueNov 12 13:43
oiaohmReally it does.Nov 12 13:43
qu1j0t3which of those incompatible things is true?Nov 12 13:43
oiaohmOur goverment set up a few universities without buildings.Nov 12 13:44
qu1j0t3this is heading off topic, as far as I can see.Nov 12 13:44
oiaohmTo competed directly against those with buildings.Nov 12 13:44
qu1j0t3UK students are protesting a tripling of fees. what's the answer for them?Nov 12 13:44
qu1j0t3online? who's going to set that up? maybe if you email their PMNov 12 13:44
oiaohmThey need a online universitity.Nov 12 13:44
qu1j0t3they already have them, I expect.Nov 12 13:44
qu1j0t3schestowitz can tell usNov 12 13:44
oiaohmSetup to run a low cost.Nov 12 13:45
oiaohmIts competition game.Nov 12 13:45
qu1j0t3what you're saying may be specific to australia.Nov 12 13:45
qu1j0t3elsewhere, universities aren't getting cheaper. they're getting more expensive.Nov 12 13:45
oiaohmSome areas are following the australian way to get cost down.Nov 12 13:46
oiaohmAlso it is the fact that the Australian goverment lost big money on student loans.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:48
oiaohmWho is backing the loans in the UK.Nov 12 13:48
oiaohmqu1j0t3: really the UK almost has the perfect solution to the problem. 12 13:49
TechrightsSocialTitle: Getting started - OpenLearn - The Open University .::. Size~: 30.68 KBNov 12 13:49
oiaohmAll that has to be solved is how to turn those into accreditationNov 12 13:50
oiaohmAt an affordable cost.Nov 12 13:50
oiaohmIe like maybe pay for final exams only qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:50
oiaohmEven the UN is aware of the cost problems qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:52
oiaohm is working on producing universal study materials.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 13:57
TechrightsSocialMissing content type. Ignoring.Nov 12 13:57
oiaohmQuestion is how long until truly global qualfications.Nov 12 13:57
qu1j0t3oiaohm: why did the government lose money on student loans? Nov 12 14:01
qu1j0t3and...Nov 12 14:01
qu1j0t3why is the government in the student loan business?Nov 12 14:01
oiaohmHere in Australian no bank would back student loans.Nov 12 14:02
oiaohmSerousally.Nov 12 14:02
oiaohmToo many would complete courses than declare bankrupt and never have to pay back.Nov 12 14:02
oiaohmSo the goverment here had no option bar to get in the student loan business.Nov 12 14:03
oiaohmThen got stuck with people who failed course and so on who would never reach the required value to have to pay anythign back.Nov 12 14:03
oiaohmSo yes student loans basically become goverment money black holes with no hope of ever being paid back fully.Nov 12 14:04
oiaohmqu1j0t3: I will tell you insane.  When I repaid my student loan The goverment accepted 1/10 of the starting figgure.Nov 12 14:17
oiaohmJust because I would pay something back.Nov 12 14:17
oiaohmYes no interest payments 1/10 of what the goverment had payed to the unisNov 12 14:17
qu1j0t3hm,Nov 12 14:23
qu1j0t3so: if students are unable to repay their debt, doesn't that put the whole concept in a different light?Nov 12 14:23
qu1j0t3did anyone stop to ask whyNov 12 14:23
qu1j0t3noting that student loans are NOT discharged by bankruptcy, at least in north america...Nov 12 14:23
oiaohmRemember we are talking creative australians here.Nov 12 14:24
oiaohmHow do you get around cannot clear student loan due to bankrupcy.Nov 12 14:25
oiaohmSimple take out another loan pay student debt out then declare bankruptcyNov 12 14:25
oiaohmSo leaving the banks holding the can.Nov 12 14:26
oiaohmYou can guess how long the banks will put up with that.Nov 12 14:26
oiaohmBasically if the students start using there IQ the hell they can cause from not being able to repay debt undermines the complete system.Nov 12 14:27
oiaohmYou are thinking the debt is a problem for the students.  qu1j0t3Nov 12 14:28
oiaohmThe debt is a problem for the system.Nov 12 14:28
qu1j0t3sounds like the idea of student loans isn't very workable.Nov 12 14:49
oiaohmExactly it is not.Nov 12 14:50
oiaohmStudent loans are a time bomb.Nov 12 14:50
oiaohmThat explode once students get to a point of being sick of them that having a bad credit mark against there name no longer means anything.Nov 12 14:52
oiaohmqu1j0t3: basically student loans are about smart as ninga loans.Nov 12 14:55
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schestowitz+1Nov 12 16:04
schestowitzwhich prices education out of reach in the WestNov 12 16:05
schestowitzAnd they wonder why there are young protestersNov 12 16:05
schestowitz 12 16:11
schestowitz"Not even that much. Jennifer Anniston's apparent discontent with her latest hairstyle is enough to cut the mustard."Nov 12 16:11
TechrightsSocial@: Nov 12 16:11
schestowitz"You're right!"Nov 12 16:11
schestowitz"The system is obviously broken and has to be fixed before it gets to the stage of costing too much." 12 16:12
TechrightsSocial@: Nov 12 16:12
schestowitzqu1j0t3: Nov 12 16:12
schestowitz'"Reportedly, in some states, public employment may be terminated as the result of student loan delinquencies." So in the US higher education may actually become a barrier to entry into employment in the public sector.  'Nov 12 16:12
schestowitz 12 16:12
TechrightsSocialTitle: Special Solari Report: The Student Loan Scam | The Solari Report Blog .::. Size~: 113.88 KBNov 12 16:12
TechrightsSocial@: Nov 12 16:12
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qu1j0t3schestowitz: 12 17:08
TechrightsSocialTitle: Brian Browne Walker's answer to Who are the greatest editorial cartoonists working in the world today? - Quora .::. Size~: 46.59 KBNov 12 17:08
qu1j0t3schestowitz: 12 17:16
TechrightsSocialTitle: Intelligence agencies step up the Twitter and Facebook trawling - .::. Size~: 83.49 KBNov 12 17:16
qu1j0t3'our sprawling intelligence and national security apparatus was caught off-guard by social media-fueled uprisings in the Middle East and North Africa, and that they were going to take steps to be better prepared in the future.Nov 12 17:26
qu1j0t3DHS Undersecretary Caryn Wagner said the department was still trying to figure out how to use Twitter and Facebook information for law enforcement purposes.Nov 12 17:26
schestowitzyeahNov 12 17:42
schestowitzI saw some reports that help confirm thisNov 12 17:43
schestowitzThis also reaffirmed what Assange had said months earlierNov 12 17:43
schestowitzBut he uses twitter in two accounts, his and wikileaks'Nov 12 17:43
schestowitzActually, I think many wikileaks activists use twitterNov 12 17:43
qu1j0t3the whole article is worth readingNov 12 17:53
qu1j0t3they admit the CIA is already doing it, but "these CIA analysts are totally cool, like the goth hacker lady in those books you like"Nov 12 17:55
schestowitzYeah, I heard soNov 12 17:56
schestowitzI don't have much time to read thoughNov 12 17:56
schestowitzI need to do some other work firstNov 12 17:56
schestowitzI added this to daily linksNov 12 17:56
schestowitzI also need to read up on the Gates Fundamentalism laterNov 12 17:56
qu1j0t3schestowitz:!/NYTimesFriedmanNov 12 18:06
TechrightsSocialTitle: Thomas L. Friedman (@NYTimesFriedman) on Twitter .::. Size~: 47.99 KBNov 12 18:06
schestowitz> "Could retirement mean more available time for work on software freedom?"Nov 12 18:11
schestowitzThe cause of freedom fails to attract many young people, who are too busy paying back student loans and cannot afford activism in general.Nov 12 18:11
schestowitz> The answer to your question is "yes" - at least I hope to do so.  But myNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> approach will likely branch out a bit from plain advocacy.  I believeNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> it's time for someone to speak up for that greatly maligned, massivelyNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> misunderstood segment of the Free Software world that so many haveNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> branded as "your average user".  It's a subject that gets me riled. Nov 12 18:11
schestowitz> Seriously.Nov 12 18:11
schestowitzSoftware patents are an element of this, but their effect is mostly hidden, as Tim stresses repeatedly in TechBytes.Nov 12 18:11
schestowitz> What's really sad is that it now seems trendy to look down on new LinuxNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> users (or potential ones), and use their lack of knowledge (which is aNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> temporary state of being) as a hammer to beat those "average users" overNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> the head with.  On most of the forums I frequently visit, there are manyNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> who somehow feel they can speak FOR those in "your averageNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> user doesn't care about freedom, or customising, or blah blah blah"...orNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> "your average user is lazy, clueless, gullible, blah blah blah".  TimNov 12 18:11
schestowitz> (Goblin) is one of the worst at saying this type of thing. I know heNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> means well, and I'm sure he feels his personal experiences justify hisNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> low opinions of "your average user".  However, I believe that he (andNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> many many others like him) are so convinced of their opinions thatNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> they've stopped bothering to actually pay attention to what any thoseNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> "average users" really want or care about. Nov 12 18:12
schestowitzRight. I see what you mean.Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> I know this may sound like I'm heading into hostile territory, but theNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> truth is that I've been in the middle of this kind of situation forNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> nearly 16 years now For some odd reason I seem to have ended up, manyNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> many times, between "average users" and the OTHER people in their livesNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> that they relied on to help them with their computers (in the old daysNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> it was Windows, but it's the same problems now).  Why me?  I think it'sNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> because I gained a reputation for not treating people like they wereNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> stupid. Nov 12 18:12
schestowitzFor many who are geeks, computers provide an opportunity to get that inferiority complex out in the wild :-)Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> And yes, I have some excellent real-life examples to show how thoseNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> popular assumptions of the "average user" might not be theNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> carved-in-stone-truth as many (like Tim) want to believe.  The truth isNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> that, if people are called stupid often enough, they will come toNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> believe it.  There are certainly some who fit the popular description,Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> but I've found them to be in the minority and it's purely shameful, andNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> deeply unfair, to paint all of them with the same brush. Nov 12 18:12
schestowitzThe same goes for many things. Trying to stereotype people can condition them into thinking that are, indeed, part of that stereotype. One example is Linux as "a minority", a "failure", or "amateur".Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> Anyway, it's a subject that's been on my mind for a very long time, butNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> in recent years I've become increasingly infuriated, because I see theNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> growing popularity of disparaging the very people who are already beingNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> victimised by Microsoft and Apple.  When they are ready to move awayNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> from using products from abusive corporations, where will they go?  I'dNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> hope they'd go where they feel welcomed, but there is no such place anyNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> more. It's appalling.Nov 12 18:12
schestowitzI never thought of it that way. I think that Linux Mint is one of those communities where people don't experience this, but I may be wrong. Fedora and Ubuntu are not so newbies-friendly, not their forums anyway.Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> Since writing about it seems less effective (I am not a writer), I thinkNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> the right tool for me to use to get the message across will be myNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> artwork.  Some pointed cartoons that show the *other* side of theNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> conversation are what I'd like to begin with.  I guess I have as muchNov 12 18:12
schestowitz> right to speak up for the lowly "average user" as anyone.  Yes? Nov 12 18:12
schestowitzDo you want an author account in Techrights? You can run that alongside your own blog and post the same stories/cartoons in both. It was only in July that I created new author accounts.Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> Haha, Some serious Grandma Rage might be awesome!  :DNov 12 18:12
schestowitzNo rage, it's actually phrased politely in my opinion.Nov 12 18:12
schestowitz> Also, I don't mean to beat up on Tim.  Honestly, I know he doesn't meanNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> to cause harm or hurt people, but I also think he doesn't believe any ofNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> those "average users" could possibly be listening to him talk about (orNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> for) them, so he doesn't worry about how his words might affect them. Nov 12 18:13
schestowitz> If there's a change that I'd like to help create, it's to get "averageNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> users" to find their own voices and not to let those "average user"Nov 12 18:13
schestowitz> labels discourage them.  And maybe get the community to see the "averageNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> user" in a different light...maybe even see them as an important assetNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> to be nurtured. Nov 12 18:13
schestowitzFor me, there is no "Average User" but some issue that I think I'm good at dealing with cause I thought and spoke about them many times. I classify separately at another level, e.g. patent lawyers vs developers (i.e. occupations).Nov 12 18:13
schestowitz> I know that in the world of Free Software it's not enough to justNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> criticize and point out problems, it's important to also find and shareNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> solutions.  So that's what I'm hoping to do. Nov 12 18:13
schestowitzI think FOSS can be very reactionary. The older world was very proprietary (dawn of computer was open), so we want to take back control.Nov 12 18:13
schestowitz> Which is a WHOLE lot more than what you probably wanted to hear...butNov 12 18:13
schestowitz> it's my plan. Nov 12 18:13
schestowitzTechrights can hopefully help that plan. One thing we don't deal with is purely technical stuff because it takes a lot of work to publish on that.Nov 12 18:13
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schestowitzqu1j0t3: Nov 12 19:28
TechrightsSocialError processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 410 GoneNov 12 19:28
schestowitz"Bill Gates: Poverty not excuse for no education"Nov 12 19:28
schestowitzSays the man who was born richNov 12 19:28
schestowitzand didn't finish collegeNov 12 19:28
schestowitzwhat a POSNov 12 19:28
schestowitz"Remember how nice FDR was to Daddy Warbucks in the screen version of (Little Orphan) Annie? The White House Science Adviser is being excruciatingly polite to the technophiles at the Gates Foundation in this op ed." -Gates Watcher about 12 19:33
TechrightsSocialTitle: USAID FRONTLINES: A Message from the White House Science Advisor .::. Size~: 37.73 KBNov 12 19:33
schestowitzwhat a POS "Bihar needs telemedicine. And Duke University to show them how to evaluate it."Nov 12 19:35
TechrightsSocialTitle: Gates Keepers :: The Gates Foundation thinks Bihar needs telemedecine .::. Size~: 19.09 KBNov 12 19:35
schestowitzfree climincal trialsNov 12 19:35
schestowitzJust call it "donation"Nov 12 19:35
schestowitz*clinicalNov 12 19:36
schestowitzSome very sick stuff I see today from the fundamentalistsNov 12 19:41
schestowitz[plutocrats]Nov 12 19:41
schestowitzAnd most people have so much ind ebt to them they they cannot do much to counter itNov 12 19:41
schestowitzjust attend some protests out thereNov 12 19:41
schestowitzwhile others can afford the time to peacefully write about these issues and shed light on the injusticesNov 12 19:41
schestowitz 12 19:50
TechrightsSocial@: Nov 12 19:51
schestowitz"The biggest crimes tend to be legal because those who commit those crimes are so wealthy that they can afford to "legalise" them"Nov 12 19:51
schestowitz"Succinctly put, both of you. "Nov 12 19:51
schestowitz>>>The same goes for many things. Trying to stereotype people can conditionNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> them into thinking that are, indeed, part of that stereotype. OneNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> example is Linux as "a minority", a "failure", or "amateur".<<Nov 12 19:58
schestowitz> Nov 12 19:58
schestowitz> Oh my, YES! That's exactly what I mean. Nov 12 19:58
schestowitzIt's also a way of discrediting and making miserable particular people, e.g. a spouse or a child. I saw it as it happened. People are being told they are worthless until they become submissive with a very low self esteem.Nov 12 19:58
schestowitz Nov 12 19:58
schestowitz> Anyway, my plans are just in the beginning stages right now.  InNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> December, after all my current work projects are finished, and while theNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> rest of the world is busy with its yearly holiday insanity (I don'tNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> celebrate x-mas, so I always look forward to having a quiet few weeksNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> between mid-November and New Years) I'll be working on my first seriesNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> of cartoons.  I have several sketched out, but need to turn them intoNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> clean, crisp vector art. Nov 12 19:58
schestowitz> Nov 12 19:58
schestowitz> When I have a few good ones ready to go, I'll take you up on the guestNov 12 19:58
schestowitz> author offer.  It's a great idea.  Thanks!Nov 12 19:59
schestowitzFantastic!!Nov 12 19:59
schestowitz> Also, when I have some things online, so I actually have something toNov 12 19:59
schestowitz> talk about, then I'd like to have a chat with you and Tim on Techbytes. Nov 12 19:59
schestowitz> No Grandma Rage, I  I'll be nice to Tim.  He's a nice guyNov 12 19:59
schestowitz> and I think we can have a fun discussion. Nov 12 19:59
schestowitz> Nov 12 19:59
schestowitz> :o)  Take care!Nov 12 19:59
schestowitzAnything that you have on the computer from all those years can and perhaps should go online at some stage (where appropriate) for future preservation. My relative Anita has had her stuff uploaded by me many years ago, little by little. 12 19:59
TechrightsSocialTitle: Anita Tobkes .::. Size~: 5.42 KBNov 12 19:59
schestowitzThere is a lot of stuff like thoughts, essays and artwork that people never make publicly available, so people will not get a chance to appreciate it. 12 19:59
TechrightsSocialTitle: Harvey Tobkes .::. Size~: 99.3 KBNov 12 19:59
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schestowitzMinceR: Nov 12 20:23
schestowitz[20:17:19] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: hehe.. someone in my channel just posted 12 20:23
schestowitz[20:17:39] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: did you get something nice from Tesco? Any tea?Nov 12 20:23
TechrightsSocialNot a web page! Aborting image/jpeg typeNov 12 20:23
schestowitz[20:21:40] xxxxxx: lol that;s good and so trueNov 12 20:23
schestowitz[20:21:53] xxxxxx: yeah good some nice food just had an indian meal right nowNov 12 20:23
schestowitz[20:22:00] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: so you're not an apple fan, right?Nov 12 20:23
schestowitz[20:22:24] xxxxxx: i'm not fussed but i used my cousin's apple computer about a few months ago and i found it pretty crapNov 12 20:23
MinceR:>Nov 12 20:24
MinceRi used a hypeMac in a shop and it was craptasticNov 12 20:24
schestowitzIs it as bad as OS 9?Nov 12 20:28
schestowitzI remember how it was extremely inflexibleNov 12 20:28
schestowitzThere was not much you could do with itNov 12 20:28
MinceRi think it's worseNov 12 20:29
MinceRmore of the stupid gimmicksNov 12 20:29
MinceRthey've managed to implement something that looks like maximize, but it's stupid (it covers the menu bar)Nov 12 20:29
MinceRthe mouse had no scroll wheel and the scroll bar of their shitty browser was pretty unusableNov 12 20:29
MinceRautohid itself and shit like thatNov 12 20:30
MinceRyou can tell how much fun i had scrolling through a web pageNov 12 20:30
schestowitz 12 20:35
TechrightsSocialTitle: How fast is your broadband? Volunteers wanted across Europe!  «  Digital Agenda Commissioner – Neelie Kroes .::. Size~: 34.82 KBNov 12 20:35
schestowitzMinceR: they make it impossible to confuigure muchNov 12 20:35
schestowitzToo rigid for meNov 12 20:35
schestowitzand the workflow was lackingNov 12 20:36
schestowitzI used that at work to just read PDFsNov 12 20:36
schestowitzIt was useless for anything elseNov 12 20:36
schestowitzEven Web surfing it did not do well, WIndows at the time did betterNov 12 20:36
schestowitzaround 2002-3Nov 12 20:36
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schestowitz,_nobody_knows_you%27re_a_dogNov 12 21:24
TechrightsSocialTitle: On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 52.79 KBNov 12 21:24
schestowitzsNov 12 21:24
schestowitz[21:22:40] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: when I meet in person it's easier than in text for all sorts of reasons [...]Nov 12 21:24
schestowitz[21:22:58] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: peopl whom I know from everyday life I can generally visuaiseNov 12 21:24
schestowitz[21:23:09] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: and can get a feel for what they sound like and act likeNov 12 21:24
schestowitz[21:23:14] Dr. Roy Schestowitz: there's a sayingNov 12 21:24
schestowitzwhich sums it upNov 12 21:24
schestowitz 12 21:42
schestowitzPoor InteklNov 12 21:42
TechrightsSocialTitle: Intel planning tablet-only processors, says report - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 56.99 KBNov 12 21:42
schestowitzCan't make a compelling case for x86 in devicesNov 12 21:42
MinceRpoor, stupid intel sold off StrongARMNov 12 21:43
qu1j0t3:)Nov 12 21:50
schestowitzheheNov 12 21:52
schestowitzAtom is dead tooNov 12 21:52
schestowitzNotice how it barely gets mentioned anymoreNov 12 21:52
schestowitzIt died with the "netbook"Nov 12 21:53
MinceRnot sure about thatNov 12 21:53
MinceRthe newest PC i've got with Atom is a nettop :>Nov 12 21:54
schestowitzhmm.. maybe it's still around thenNov 12 22:31
schestowitzqu1j0t3: "I've never been a big fan of Moore's. In the past he's appeared to be serving his own promotional interests in employing public issues, but he's right on the nail with this one and appears to be more genuine than I've previously seen him. "Nov 12 22:44
schestowitz 12 22:44
TechrightsSocial@: Nov 12 22:44
schestowitz"Would it be too conspiracy minded to say that long term crippling debt is the intended outcome of this policy? Margaret Thatcher castrated the British working classes in the 80s by encouraging them all to buy houses and get mortgages. The student loan system is intended to do the same to the middle classes. Debt is slavery - we are the 99% " 12 22:59
TechrightsSocial@: Nov 12 22:59
qu1j0t3not too conspiracy minded at allNov 12 23:08
qu1j0t3debt isn't wealthNov 12 23:08
schestowitzto some people it's an endless source of incomeNov 12 23:15
schestowitzmoney makes moneyNov 12 23:15
schestowitzthey are interest leechesNov 12 23:15
schestowitzand so the economic gap widensNov 12 23:15
schestowitzInterest rates decline for savings and increase for loansNov 12 23:16
schestowitzAnd we know who that benefits and who this crushesNov 12 23:16
qu1j0t3yesNov 12 23:37
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schestowitzthink of Gates:Nov 12 23:52
schestowitz"Sam wrote, “People join the Ubuntu community – or any other free software or open source software community for that matter – for their own selfish reasons. Every human act, no matter how altruistic it may appear on the surface, is ultimately selfish.”" 12 23:52
TechrightsSocialTitle: Entitlement? No. Sharing? Yes. at  Robert Pogson .::. Size~: 36.12 KBNov 12 23:52

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