Join us now at the IRC channel.
| qu1j0t3 | something like 600,000 people. | Feb 20 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: unless it's for something like waiting tables, I hardly see them employing foreigners | Feb 20 00:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | great vibe | Feb 20 00:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: technical | Feb 20 00:00 |
| schestowitz | maybe | Feb 20 00:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i know for a fact. | Feb 20 00:00 |
| schestowitz | !google elmer arrested | Feb 20 00:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | [1] - Rudolf Elmer arrested in Swiss banking records case - CNN | http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-19/world/switzerland.wikileaks.elmer_1_wikileaks-swiss-banking-offshore-banking%3F_s%3DPM:WORLD | Feb 20 00:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | [2] - Whistleblower Swiss banker Rudolf Elmer arrested in Zurich | http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/whistleblower-swiss-banker-rudolf-elmer-arrested-in-zurich-80434 | Feb 20 00:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | [3] - Police: 2 Elmer men arrested in connection with theft of firearms ... | http://www.nj.com/salem/index.ssf/2012/02/police_two_elmer_men_arrested.html | Feb 20 00:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | [4] - 'Elmer Fudd' bandit arrested in Vancouver, police say - KPTV - FOX 12 | http://www.kptv.com/story/16671046/arrests-made-in-vancouver-bank-robbery | Feb 20 00:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: my brother in law worked there for nearly a decade in a technical job. | Feb 20 00:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: at ETH | Feb 20 00:00 |
| schestowitz | It hasn't crossed my mind to go there | Feb 20 00:01 |
| schestowitz | I mean, permanently | Feb 20 00:01 |
| schestowitz | I have a colleague who moved there, become a professor | Feb 20 00:01 |
| schestowitz | started a family there too (Michael) | Feb 20 00:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | i don't really plan to go anywhere permanently, yet. | Feb 20 00:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's a big decision. | Feb 20 00:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | the world is too interesting. | Feb 20 00:02 |
| schestowitz | yeah | Feb 20 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Some things stay the same anywhere you go, esp. the Net and anything technical, inc. languages on the technical side | Feb 20 00:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | culture changes. | Feb 20 00:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | the development jobs in Europe are on the whole more interesting. | Feb 20 00:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | north american software industry is pretty broken | Feb 20 00:06 |
| schestowitz | I cycles there today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c3cg-2FSlQ&feature=related | Feb 20 00:09 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: MediaCityUK BBC North Salford Quays Pizza - 18/10/2010 - HD - YouTube .::. Size~: 105.38 KB | Feb 20 00:09 |
| schestowitz | weirdly enough, all the videos they have of it are in cloudy days | Feb 20 00:09 |
| schestowitz | I only ever go there when it's sunny | Feb 20 00:09 |
| schestowitz | europe's largest development site recently | Feb 20 00:10 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: british s/w industry is a wreck | Feb 20 00:10 |
| schestowitz | hard for people to find jobs in it | Feb 20 00:10 |
| schestowitz | except in specialised areas, like if you do UNIX | Feb 20 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Here's where I was today (although in the video it's still under construction and not sunny like today) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COcctg54UD0&feature=related | Feb 20 00:12 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: MediaCityUK BBC North Salford Quays 22/09/2010 - Before New Bridge is installed - From Lowry Centre - YouTube .::. Size~: 98.48 KB | Feb 20 00:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i think we're talking about different kinds of wreckage though | Feb 20 00:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: it's kind of subtle | Feb 20 00:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i've had the chance to see all kinds of dysfunction in north american sw industry | Feb 20 00:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i think they stem from a few basic circumstances | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | yeah | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | I know | Feb 20 00:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: some are deeply systemic and some are temporary | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | most people don't pay attention to it | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | They're too busy with everyday trouble | Feb 20 00:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, they accept "it is what it is" | Feb 20 00:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | "work sucks" | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | microproblems, not macroproblems | Feb 20 00:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | never ask "why" | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | yeah | Feb 20 00:13 |
| schestowitz | or how to avert disaster | Feb 20 00:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | 10 years ago i wouldn't ask "why" either. | Feb 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | I almost went to work in London | Feb 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | Full time, dev | Feb 20 00:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | 20 years ago, i was still watching TV. | Feb 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | when I was 21 | Feb 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | The industry smelled bad, so I rejected the job offer, got back to the university, worked on a Ph.D. | Feb 20 00:14 |
| schestowitz | right now software eng is the worst job in the UK based on stress and # of applicants per opening | Feb 20 00:15 |
| schestowitz | some people would just say, take that job, but that was 3 years after the dot-com boom | Feb 20 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Now it's just trash | Feb 20 00:15 |
| schestowitz | and many development jobs are outsourced anyway | Feb 20 00:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | haha, you were right | Feb 20 00:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: in 2004 i changed careers to SW fulltime | Feb 20 00:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: there are days now that i wonder if it was a good idea | Feb 20 00:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: even though i'm a MUCH better coder now than i was then | Feb 20 00:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: the problem is the industry doesn't want experience or education | Feb 20 00:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: it's in an anti-academic funk | Feb 20 00:17 |
| schestowitz | I am still trying to figure out all sorts of things by retrospection and introspection, like place, job, pasttime, etc. | Feb 20 00:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: the more ignorant, the better you fit in | Feb 20 00:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: contemplation :) | Feb 20 00:17 |
| schestowitz | I think twitter is declining in influence for example, since 2010, diluted | Feb 20 00:17 |
| schestowitz | FB and G+ hoover it all | Feb 20 00:17 |
| schestowitz | [00:17] <qu1j0t3> schestowitz: it's in an anti-academic funk | Feb 20 00:18 |
| schestowitz | They want many hours put it | Feb 20 00:18 |
| schestowitz | I remember a 3-day job trial I did in Blackburn | Feb 20 00:18 |
| schestowitz | They took the juice out of people | Feb 20 00:18 |
| schestowitz | I thought, there's no way in Hell I'd do this for a whole week even | Feb 20 00:19 |
| schestowitz | Some development house would have people work like 80 hours a week if there is a deadline because it's not services-based but project based | Feb 20 00:19 |
| schestowitz | With services when you have service hours there's little or no need for that | Feb 20 00:19 |
| schestowitz | I recently read about some technical dude having his office required to work 6 weeks straight 15-16 hour days (inc. Saturday) because some project was behind schedule | Feb 20 00:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes. | Feb 20 00:20 |
| schestowitz | Even if paid overtime, it's unreasonable to take people's like away like this | Feb 20 00:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | i know some ppl doing this kind of load | Feb 20 00:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | not me, but there are other problems | Feb 20 00:20 |
| schestowitz | the lower the job security, the less likely the employee will say "no" | Feb 20 00:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: right, i tweeted about this | Feb 20 00:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: people with balanced lives are harder to exploit and abuse | Feb 20 00:21 |
| schestowitz | And one friend of mine knows there are many people dying to have his job, so he's willing to work like 70 hours a weej | Feb 20 00:21 |
| schestowitz | *week | Feb 20 00:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: keep them off balance, running, playing catchup, on an economic knife-edge | Feb 20 00:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: in debt | Feb 20 00:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: then you can do whatever you want to them | Feb 20 00:21 |
| schestowitz | then they really do need their vacations and day off | Feb 20 00:22 |
| schestowitz | not to run around | Feb 20 00:22 |
| schestowitz | just sleep or calm down | Feb 20 00:22 |
| schestowitz | post-shock | Feb 20 00:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes! | Feb 20 00:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | exactly! | Feb 20 00:22 |
| schestowitz | I never quite understand this | Feb 20 00:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | i worked 6 days a week for a few months recently | Feb 20 00:22 |
| schestowitz | So they explain to me | Feb 20 00:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | voluntarily -- sort of. | Feb 20 00:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | min dyou, i HATE a 5 day week. | Feb 20 00:22 |
| schestowitz | my sister and her husband work for multinationals and have their job (IT) | Feb 20 00:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | for a few years until this job i worked ~ 30 hours a week. was perfect. | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | It's a likestyle of suffering+compensation | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | work hard, play hard | Feb 20 00:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes. | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather just play hard, play hard | Feb 20 00:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | J.G. Ballard wrote about this indirectly too. | Feb 20 00:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | in books like Supercannes | Feb 20 00:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | he predicted a lot of 21st C sociology | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | think of it this way | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | we have lots of automation | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | laundry machines | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Feb 20 00:23 | |
| schestowitz | fax | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | and yet | Feb 20 00:23 |
| schestowitz | we work more hours | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | for less relative pay | Feb 20 00:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's no reason anyone should overwork. it's arbitrary, it's imposed deliberately. | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | something is making a killing here | Feb 20 00:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: yes. Robert Reich just blogged about it. | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | and the work gets more, not less, stressful for many | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | you take out the automation | Feb 20 00:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: this week, several articles appeared on this theme. | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | so you leave in all the hard part | Feb 20 00:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i tweet them | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | I worked in assembly lines, it's not too bad, you needn't think much | Feb 20 00:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: Robert Reich had a great punchline, let me get you the URL: | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | you can daydream about stuff | Feb 20 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Not when you serve people in race-like conditions in Aldi | Feb 20 00:25 |
| schestowitz | I heard of Robert Reich | Feb 20 00:25 |
| schestowitz | But not aware of that line | Feb 20 00:25 |
| schestowitz | I saw this point made by Beranger in his Linux rants | Feb 20 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Life becoming harder even though we claim to have made things to make it easier | Feb 20 00:25 |
| schestowitz | We don't ever say enough, the more spare time people have in their hands (e.g. when the washing machine is running) the more we slide for them to do, usually the more challenging stuff too. | Feb 20 00:26 |
| schestowitz | more error-prone | Feb 20 00:26 |
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| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: https://twitter.com/#!/qu1j0t3/status/170980322303950848 | Feb 20 00:29 |
| TechrightsSocial | @qu1j0t3: Factory jobs won't come back—but "[real] problem is declining power of American workers to share in [economic] gains" http://t.co/AywJykXn | Feb 20 00:29 |
| TechrightsSocial | @: | Feb 20 00:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | whoa I GOTTA FIX THA TNOW. | Feb 20 00:30 |
| *qu1j0t3 screams | Feb 20 00:30 | |
| schestowitz | Oh, I saw that | Feb 20 00:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's a fantastic punchline, schestowitz | Feb 20 00:30 |
| schestowitz | t.co always does that | Feb 20 00:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | it is exactly contrary to the mainstream bullshit | Feb 20 00:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | AUSTERITY | Feb 20 00:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | yeah, austerity for the 99% and decadence for everyone else, as somebody put it on twitter | Feb 20 00:30 |
| schestowitz | the rich folks move around the most | Feb 20 00:31 |
| schestowitz | They already have their money travel | Feb 20 00:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | https://twitter.com/#!/MahRain/status/170967050397827073 | Feb 20 00:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | @MahRain: "…public services are rapidly becoming a dirty word in this gilded age of decadence and austerity…" http://t.co/ORxwxTKW | Feb 20 00:31 |
| schestowitz | e.g. to Switzerland | Feb 20 00:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | @: | Feb 20 00:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | ^^ MUST READ | Feb 20 00:31 |
| schestowitz | next, they just buy another house slewhere | Feb 20 00:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, and they never need to worry about immigration | Feb 20 00:31 |
| schestowitz | and all that's left of the 100% of the poorer 99% | Feb 20 00:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can buy status in many countries (including Brazil) | Feb 20 00:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | and the USA iirc | Feb 20 00:31 |
| schestowitz | where the bottom 50% is less rich than those 1% who left (based on US standards) | Feb 20 00:31 |
| schestowitz | i.e. you vou cut the nations value by about half when just 1% exists | Feb 20 00:32 |
| schestowitz | *exits | Feb 20 00:32 |
| schestowitz | "California rejects top rate tax increase, removes all state funding for CA libraries. Funding cut for "literacy programs, InterLibrary Loans, and miscellaneous expenses such as librarian training programs and books." Library Journal goes into more of the technicalities." | Feb 20 00:33 |
| *schestowitz reads the Reich piece | Feb 20 00:34 | |
| schestowitz | it's not just a US issue, it's globalised now | Feb 20 00:34 |
| schestowitz | For the time being I need to stay in Europe | Feb 20 00:36 |
| schestowitz | I'm on an ERC grants for the next 3-4 years http://erc.europa.eu/ | Feb 20 00:36 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: ERC: European Research Council | ERC: European Research Council .::. Size~: 29.75 KB | Feb 20 00:36 |
| schestowitz | After that I reckon Europe will be in more of a mess anyway | Feb 20 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Not sure where to direct activism now that Linux finds its metamorphosis inside servers giants and Android and not much else | Feb 20 00:37 |
| schestowitz | It has effectively outgrown Linux as activism around 2009 | Feb 20 00:38 |
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| schestowitz | I am currently working on a concise report about this project. There's more coming. | Feb 20 00:41 |
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| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: yes | Feb 20 00:44 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: so what to do next? | Feb 20 00:44 |
| schestowitz | I have too much spare time | Feb 20 00:44 |
| schestowitz | For a while after 2008 I started hammering hard on the class war, but it's too big a war to take on, hard to make an impact there | Feb 20 00:45 |
| schestowitz | So one option is to dedicate more time to personal life, exercise, etc. which is what I did | Feb 20 00:45 |
| schestowitz | There's no excitement in careers, it's not designed to be exhilarating | Feb 20 00:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: which is a theft | Feb 20 00:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i realised something the other day | Feb 20 00:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i was helping $WIFE read a passage of academic text | Feb 20 00:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: and i realised... that we are all victims - especially her generation | Feb 20 00:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: we're not taught that text like that is perfectly normal and understandable | Feb 20 00:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: we've been screwed; | Feb 20 00:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: the anti-intellectualism must be deliberate, from the mainstream | Feb 20 00:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: same w/ software biz; there is a virulent anti-academic thread to it | Feb 20 00:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: learning is looked down upon | Feb 20 00:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: it makes you differnet and not replaceable | Feb 20 00:49 |
| schestowitz | I don't get the key point, you might have to rephrase a bit | Feb 20 00:52 |
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| schestowitz | hi scientes_, how's it going? | Feb 20 01:00 |
| scientes_ | ok i guess | Feb 20 01:00 |
| scientes_ | havn't been getting too much | Feb 20 01:01 |
| scientes_ | done | Feb 20 01:01 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3 and I have been talking about how things are changing around the world, and where it's wotth moving to accordingly. | Feb 20 01:01 |
| scientes_ | the ISP i interviewed with should have gotten back to me by now | Feb 20 01:01 |
| scientes_ | but given how long it took between my application and the first interview i have nothing to worry about | Feb 20 01:01 |
| scientes_ | http://youtu.be/VOMWzjrRiBg | Feb 20 01:02 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: There's No Tomorrow (2012) - YouTube .::. Size~: 94.52 KB | Feb 20 01:02 |
| *qu1j0t3 is now known as FurnaceBoy | Feb 20 01:03 | |
| schestowitz | scientes_: which area/city? | Feb 20 01:05 |
| scientes_ | sf bay area | Feb 20 01:06 |
| scientes_ | they are in petaluma/santa rosa | Feb 20 01:06 |
| scientes_ | SOnic.net | Feb 20 01:06 |
| scientes_ | they got press in their experimental deployment of 1gbit | Feb 20 01:07 |
| scientes_ | which they are soon launching in San Francisco ciy | Feb 20 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: right, i didn't put that very well. lemme think... | Feb 20 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: i guess the key is... | Feb 20 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: she's a younger generation. she's faced with a bit of "academic" text. and the problem is that this type of writing isn't seen as a normal everyday use of english, but something alien; | Feb 20 01:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: she's a TV generation | Feb 20 01:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: it's like the difference between using Office and writing some simple code | Feb 20 01:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the English wasn't impenetrable. it's an invisible barrier, a trained barrier. | Feb 20 01:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: so, younger people aren't going to learn from TV that all this is accessible to them, using the same basic tools | Feb 20 01:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: it makes them victims | Feb 20 01:10 |
| scientes_ | well, TV lets mainland europeans come to the US with no accent | Feb 20 01:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: just today i had to coach her for 90 minutes to read a text | Feb 20 01:11 |
| scientes_ | which kinda blew my mind | Feb 20 01:11 |
| scientes_ | the only way you can tell is their lack of vocabulary | Feb 20 01:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: much of Western Europe speaks English anyway. Germany, for example. | Feb 20 01:11 |
| scientes_ | this isn't schestowitz | Feb 20 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | and certainly i know people from many countries whose English is as good as natives. People from India, Brazil, Portugal, and so on. | Feb 20 01:12 |
| scientes_ | he would know more than me | Feb 20 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: oops sorry | Feb 20 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: trained fingers... | Feb 20 01:12 |
| scientes_ | you mean autocomplete? | Feb 20 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: technical companies in Germany use English | Feb 20 01:12 |
| scientes_ | I do know that | Feb 20 01:12 |
| scientes_ | english is the language of computers and science | Feb 20 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | Germans in particular have impeccable english | Feb 20 01:13 |
| scientes_ | (although i have seen an odd application programmed in chinese) | Feb 20 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | probably due to the structural similarities. | Feb 20 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | Latins have more trouble with English. | Feb 20 01:13 |
| scientes_ | well german is the other toung of english | Feb 20 01:13 |
| scientes_ | *mother | Feb 20 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Feb 20 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | that probably explains a lot of the facility. | Feb 20 01:13 |
| scientes_ | even though there is also alot of french in our language | Feb 20 01:14 |
| schestowitz | [01:10] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: so, younger people aren't going to learn from TV that all this is accessible to them, using the same basic tools | Feb 20 01:14 |
| schestowitz | legalese is like this | Feb 20 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: yes | Feb 20 01:14 |
| scientes_ | ^^^yeah | Feb 20 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: i hate, hate the artificial division | Feb 20 01:14 |
| scientes_ | watched gasland yesterday, amazing movie | Feb 20 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: academia should be as much a part of everyday life as the grocer. | Feb 20 01:14 |
| scientes_ | thats why getting schools to use GNU/Linux is such a big deal | Feb 20 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | not something special, separate, unaffordable | Feb 20 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | i won't use the E-word because it's done, useless now | Feb 20 01:14 |
| scientes_ | the whole ecology is differn't--one of exploitation or one of democracy AND meritocracy AND pragmatism | Feb 20 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | right, but i'm talking about English, "academic" EEnglish. macros/code was just a metaphor. | Feb 20 01:15 |
| scientes_ | or just FREEDOM | Feb 20 01:15 |
| schestowitz | qneed high language to get papers accepted | Feb 20 01:15 |
| schestowitz | vanity factor | Feb 20 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: that's different | Feb 20 01:15 |
| schestowitz | academia breed for self condifence | Feb 20 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: people can learn to play the game | Feb 20 01:15 |
| scientes_ | teaching a russian about linux, I started realizing what the language gap in computer stuff does | Feb 20 01:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: "I can write fancy when i need to" | Feb 20 01:16 |
| scientes_ | however it was pretty cool when everything in dpkg was totally translated | Feb 20 01:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | math has this problem too i think. | Feb 20 01:16 |
| scientes_ | glib2 | Feb 20 01:16 |
| schestowitz | i see what you mean now | Feb 20 01:17 |
| scientes_ | blocking out less "enlightened" english speakers, or non-native speakers FurnaceBoy ? | Feb 20 01:18 |
| scientes_ | does anyone here have a subscription to LWN? | Feb 20 01:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | https://twitter.com/#!/qu1j0t3/status/171403229232504833 | Feb 20 01:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | @qu1j0t3: MT @JerryMander What is this "Act of Valor" #PR nonsense // just more commercialised #militarism to put on the decades-old pile #propaganda | Feb 20 01:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: I did, until a year or so ago. | Feb 20 01:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: can't remember why i stopped;; probably because i felt poor. | Feb 20 01:19 |
| scientes_ | i read it fron t and back, but i always have to wait | Feb 20 01:19 |
| scientes_ | and there is a article on ARM big.LITTLE i want to read realllll bad | Feb 20 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: well, i think the idea that academic text is inaccessible is artificial. Makes people victims of an anti-intellectual culture. | Feb 20 01:20 |
| scientes_ | hell yes | Feb 20 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: educating people cuts into profits. they shop at wal-mart without degrees, why give them degrees. | Feb 20 01:20 |
| scientes_ | instead they get the propaganda versions from the press | Feb 20 01:20 |
| scientes_ | which are even woorse | Feb 20 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | YES! | Feb 20 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | passive victims | Feb 20 01:21 |
| scientes_ | and arguably as hard to understand (as in get the real picture) | Feb 20 01:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | books, papers, quotes twisted to say the opposite -- constantly | Feb 20 01:21 |
| scientes_ | in the light of the way propaganda press works academic stuff can be more approachable | Feb 20 01:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | we're back to a dark ages | Feb 20 01:21 |
| scientes_ | granted, i don't really read it | Feb 20 01:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | only the self educated can fight back | Feb 20 01:21 |
| scientes_ | FurnaceBoy, got something good for me to start with? | Feb 20 01:21 |
| scientes_ | not that I )cant_ read the papers, its just that usually most papers just get way too detailed | Feb 20 01:21 |
| scientes_ | I read an interesting, well part of, a floating point paper referenced from the GCC docs not too long ago | Feb 20 01:22 |
| scientes_ | well, clearly if the public is not suppose to read the papers, then its kinda a monk class type of thing | Feb 20 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: what area?? | Feb 20 01:22 |
| scientes_ | it was about floating point rounding----oh for suggestions | Feb 20 01:23 |
| scientes_ | idk | Feb 20 01:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: well, i am not thinking of comp sci specifically; $WIFE is in humanities | Feb 20 01:23 |
| scientes_ | I don't really know what I should do with my life | Feb 20 01:23 |
| scientes_ | I love the humanities | Feb 20 01:23 |
| scientes_ | I read every history by Issac Asimov, as those are SOOO approachable | Feb 20 01:23 |
| scientes_ | and sooo well written | Feb 20 01:23 |
| scientes_ | had to use interlibrary loan | Feb 20 01:24 |
| schestowitz | [01:21] <FurnaceBoy> only the self educated can fight back | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | they are also fought against | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | we're the "bad guys" | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | To the unwashed masses. sop to speak | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | we're "insane" | Feb 20 01:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: try Stanislaw Lem | Feb 20 01:27 |
| scientes_ | indeed | Feb 20 01:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: if you haven't already | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | peer pressure keeps consumerism alive | Feb 20 01:27 |
| scientes_ | read this: | Feb 20 01:27 |
| scientes_ | <schestowitz> we're the "bad guys" ? | Feb 20 01:27 |
| scientes_ | woops | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | I like going out tot he sun | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | some people like going to the mall.. and SHOP | Feb 20 01:27 |
| scientes_ | http://open-advice.org/ | Feb 20 01:27 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Open Advice .::. Size~: 12.16 KB | Feb 20 01:27 |
| schestowitz | I probably enjoy myself more | Feb 20 01:28 |
| scientes_ | guy who wrote Kolab groupware | Feb 20 01:28 |
| scientes_ | no, i havn't read Stanislaw | Feb 20 01:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: highly recommended | Feb 20 01:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: he's dead now. :/ | Feb 20 01:29 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1309074 "I expect we'd learn that there are *a lot* of happy #ubuntu desktop users, and thousands ofhighly motivated #ubuntu contributors. It's the latter that's more fascinating." | Feb 20 01:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | @: | Feb 20 01:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | hmmm another fail | Feb 20 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | :( | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | where? | Feb 20 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: did tony change the code recently? | Feb 20 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | scientes_: in bot | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | “The total cost of maintaining a widely used program is | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | typically 40 percent or more of the cost of developing it. | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | Surprisingly, this cost is strongly affected by the number | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | of users. More users find more bugs.” | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | lol | Feb 20 01:39 |
| scientes_ | so use widely-used code as it is the only that is relatively bug-free? | Feb 20 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | heh | Feb 20 01:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | maturity does count | Feb 20 01:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | look at Apache | Feb 20 01:41 |
| scientes_ | but what about doing it the RIght Way(tm) | Feb 20 01:41 |
| scientes_ | like systemd (IMHO) | Feb 20 01:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | how does that differ? | Feb 20 01:59 |
| scientes_ | well systemd certainly is not that mature | Feb 20 02:44 |
| scientes_ | but they do it the right way | Feb 20 02:44 |
| scientes_ | which means in the long run its just way better | Feb 20 02:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | wht do you mean by 'the right way' | Feb 20 02:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | in design, in testing, in what? | Feb 20 02:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | what makes it better than other open source projects | Feb 20 02:47 |
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| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: i fixed the bot problems | Feb 20 06:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: pushed to repo | Feb 20 06:57 |
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| schestowitz | [01:39] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: did tony change the code recently? | Feb 20 08:13 |
| schestowitz | no | Feb 20 08:13 |
| schestowitz | [06:57] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: pushed to repo | Feb 20 08:14 |
| schestowitz | which fil was changed? | Feb 20 08:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/15/linux_salary_survey/ | Feb 20 09:18 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Linux talent shortage drives up salaries • The Register .::. Size~: 26.62 KB | Feb 20 09:18 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: will take a look now | Feb 20 09:18 |
| schestowitz | https://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/changeset/831e61866c7d | Feb 20 09:21 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: trmanco / phIRCe / changeset / 831e61866c7d — Bitbucket .::. Size~: 292.72 KB | Feb 20 09:21 |
| schestowitz | I can patch it manually, will be quicker | Feb 20 09:21 |
| *TechrightsSocial has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Feb 20 09:29 | |
| *TechrightsSocial (~b0t@216.105.40.114) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Feb 20 09:30 | |
| TechrightsSocial | Hello World! I'm TechrightsSocial running phIRCe v0.54 | Feb 20 09:30 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Main Page - Techrights .::. Size~: 38.98 KB | Feb 20 09:30 |
| schestowitz | ok, I run the latest version only in this channel now | Feb 20 09:30 |
| schestowitz | experimentally, I'll copy the changes to others if all goes ok | Feb 20 09:30 |
| schestowitz | test https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1309074 | Feb 20 09:30 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Canonical Survey Reveals Worldwide Ubuntu Server Trends http://goo.gl/aHmV9 #ubuntu | Feb 20 09:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Canonical Survey Reveals Worldwide Ubuntu Server Trends | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 96.68 KB | Feb 20 09:31 |
| schestowitz | cool! | Feb 20 09:31 |
| schestowitz | [00:31] <qu1j0t3> https://twitter.com/#!/MahRain/status/170967050397827073 | Feb 20 09:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | @MahRain: "…public services are rapidly becoming a dirty word in this gilded age of decadence and austerity…" http://t.co/ORxwxTKW | Feb 20 09:32 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: California Dreamin' | MetaFilter .::. Size~: 263.89 KB | Feb 20 09:32 |
| schestowitz | yup, works | Feb 20 09:32 |
| schestowitz | I reckon this bot software has handled hundreds of thousands of links for us so far | Feb 20 09:32 |
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| schestowitz | "Now, I thought it's one of the ACTA protests " https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319412 | Feb 20 10:24 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a Diaspora post? | Feb 20 10:24 |
| schestowitz | "Now, I thought it's one of the ACTA protests " http://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319412 | Feb 20 10:24 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a Diaspora post? | Feb 20 10:24 |
| schestowitz | "quite disturbing " https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319306 | Feb 20 10:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a Diaspora post? | Feb 20 10:25 |
| schestowitz | test https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1309074 | Feb 20 10:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Canonical Survey Reveals Worldwide Ubuntu Server Trends http://goo.gl/aHmV9 #ubuntu | Feb 20 10:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Canonical Survey Reveals Worldwide Ubuntu Server Trends | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 96.68 KB | Feb 20 10:25 |
| schestowitz | I'm staying online, but going to the health club now for the next 3-4 hours | Feb 20 10:33 |
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| schestowitz | Unusual start for the day: went to the Health Club, practised for next stage, which is 5 minutes rope-skipping max speed, then sauna, jacuzzi... took almost 3 hours | Feb 20 14:35 |
| schestowitz | after shopping I decided to get a really massive new bag for the bike, having lost the previous one last month (I gave it to a friend who did not return it. There's a small family shop around the corner (owned by a Chinese family) where I always buy bags, so I got a bag almost as big as my bike. I reckon ghix will come in handy. | Feb 20 14:38 |
| schestowitz | > Hi, Roy, | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > I wonder if it is too early to request a clarification on how they | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > will remove Mono from Debian. | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > Stefano Zacchiroli appears to be the spokesman for the new policy: | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > http://www.debian.org/News/2012/20120219 | Feb 20 14:40 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Debian -- News -- Debian Position on Software Patents .::. Size~: 7.94 KB | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > From 2011, he sidesteps the question: | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > Swapnil: What is your opinion about Mono, considering | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > Microsoft's consistent attacks on Free Software? Is | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > usage of Mono a threat for Free Software community? | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > Stefano: The real threat are software patents, more | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > than any individual technology. As long as software | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > patents will be around, traps will be everywhere, even | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > in the most unexpected applications. This is so | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > "thanks" to the little scrutiny to prior art patent | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > offices around the world have made, a practice which is | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > very unlikely to change that whose damage will stay | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > with us as long as software patents exist. | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > http://www.muktware.com/news/10/2011/1383 | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Exclusive Interview With Debian Leader Stefano Zacchiroli | Muktware .::. Size~: 45.96 KB | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:40 |
| schestowitz | > From 2007 (but maybe he's learned since then) | Feb 20 14:41 |
| schestowitz | > | Feb 20 14:41 |
| schestowitz | > http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/packaging-libmono-saxonb8-interested-help-td1551730.html | Feb 20 14:41 |
| schestowitz | Microbauer keeps mono in Debian for now. | Feb 20 14:41 |
| schestowitz | scam or spam: http://twitter.com/ObnoxiousBot/statuses/171558104843038721 | Feb 20 14:42 |
| TechrightsSocial | @ObnoxiousBot: @schestowitz 3-CPO is an hypocrite. You wouldn't believe what he said about Andy's performances on the Mork & Mindy show! | Feb 20 14:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: so it still has a problem with diaspora links? | Feb 20 15:06 |
| *FurnaceBoy is now known as qu1j0t3 | Feb 20 15:06 | |
| schestowitz | there's a couple that didn't work | Feb 20 15:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the page expired | Feb 20 15:10 |
| schestowitz | but I didn't check, the rest have worked (I only test in this channel first) | Feb 20 15:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | hm okay i'll chec | Feb 20 15:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: http://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319412 | Feb 20 15:14 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a Diaspora post? | Feb 20 15:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | when i go there in the browser, there's no content either, just says "Reshare" | Feb 20 15:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: was it deleted? | Feb 20 15:15 |
| schestowitz | maybe | Feb 20 15:22 |
| schestowitz | some of that site is odd when it comes to "public" stuff | Feb 20 15:23 |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: do you allow it to run javascript? | Feb 20 15:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: no. | Feb 20 15:30 |
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| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i'm confused why it's dropping titles only into #tr | Feb 20 15:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: what am i forgetting? | Feb 20 15:33 |
| *abeNd-org1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Feb 20 15:33 | |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: maybe that's why it only says reshare | Feb 20 15:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | no | Feb 20 15:36 |
| MinceR | allowing it tends to make it work here | Feb 20 15:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | i worked out how these pages work yesterday | Feb 20 15:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | it sniffers the user agent | Feb 20 15:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | sniffs* | Feb 20 15:36 |
| MinceR | :/ | Feb 20 15:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | if it thinks it's not a browser, you get a small amount of XML: | Feb 20 15:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | http://paste.pocoo.org/show/553991/ | Feb 20 15:37 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Paste #553991 | LodgeIt! .::. Size~: 9.5 KB | Feb 20 15:37 |
| MinceR | that's a stupid way to handle things | Feb 20 15:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | right | Feb 20 15:38 |
| MinceR | what were they thinking? | Feb 20 15:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | but also, if this is a reshare, there's not much useful in this XML | Feb 20 15:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | maybe their API doc explains what to do | Feb 20 15:38 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: yes, they do nasty things with browser types | Feb 20 15:53 |
| schestowitz | I told them | Feb 20 15:53 |
| schestowitz | didn't file bug report, not yet anyway | Feb 20 15:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: it sounds like it should be handled with content type negotiation | Feb 20 15:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: btw, what mechanism puts those titles into #tr? seems pretty useless. i've forgotten | Feb 20 15:54 |
| schestowitz | "I would like to know how many linux-based phones are in the market, but not related to android! " | Feb 20 16:02 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319502 | Feb 20 16:02 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Baidu has got "Linux-based Yi mobile platform." http://www.zdnetasia.com/baidu-zooms-in-on-mobile-62303924.htm #linux | Feb 20 16:02 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Baidu zooms in on mobile - ZDNet Asia News .::. Size~: 57.17 KB | Feb 20 16:02 |
| schestowitz | "feel like a Transformer :D " https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319411 "Is that a real thing? Can you give me url where I could find more info? " | Feb 20 16:03 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a Diaspora post? | Feb 20 16:03 |
| schestowitz | ah, this one is a reshare | Feb 20 16:03 |
| schestowitz | maybe that's the reason for the issue? | Feb 20 16:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes it's a reshare | Feb 20 16:08 |
| schestowitz | wow. charlie is in so deep a *** http://www.cveitch.org/?p=1754 | Feb 20 17:11 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: The Love Police » Blog Archive » Bail Yourself Legally, Drone Strikes, Circus of Hate (1 of 2) .::. Size~: 55.25 KB | Feb 20 17:11 |
| schestowitz | and in page 1 you see how he mad a major fight with Danny, his former colleague | Feb 20 17:11 |
| schestowitz | completely inane by now, he lost it since 2009.. | Feb 20 17:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: remind me why the bot puts titles in channels | Feb 20 17:18 |
| schestowitz | tony wanted to write some code | Feb 20 17:22 |
| schestowitz | he started with a kick/ban bot | Feb 20 17:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: no, i mean now | Feb 20 17:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i can't remember why it's putting the titles in TR | Feb 20 17:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: nobody's pasting links | Feb 20 17:44 |
| schestowitz | sorry, got distracted by work task for a sec | Feb 20 18:03 |
| schestowitz | do you mean page <title>? | Feb 20 18:03 |
| schestowitz | "It's well 'ard guv'nor!" https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1319509 | Feb 20 18:09 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Linux is hard. It's hard to break, it's hard to beat, and it has hardened versions that improve security. #Linux is very hard. | Feb 20 18:09 |
| schestowitz | this one works | Feb 20 18:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: no... | Feb 20 18:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: the bot is spitting TITLES only into TR, why? | Feb 20 18:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: i think you told me before, but i forget | Feb 20 18:21 |
| schestowitz | what do you mean by "splitting"? | Feb 20 18:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | where are the links coming from, that the bot is mentioning in #tr? | Feb 20 18:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: TechrightsBot-tr | Feb 20 18:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: where is it getting the urls? | Feb 20 18:37 |
| schestowitz | from the identi.ca account that's following particular folks | Feb 20 18:37 |
| schestowitz | inc,. you | Feb 20 18:37 |
| schestowitz | but you don't use identica | Feb 20 18:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | XFaCE: https://twitter.com/#!/qu1j0t3/status/171659197564469248 | Feb 20 18:45 |
| TechrightsSocial | @qu1j0t3: Happy Family Day @ToewsVic! I had muesli and blueberries for breakfast. Thanks for asking! #TellVicEverything #StopHarper #cdnpoli | Feb 20 18:45 |
| schestowitz | - 18:44:58 up 40 days | Feb 20 18:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | XFaCE: https://twitter.com/#!/qu1j0t3/status/171659554889793536 | Feb 20 18:45 |
| TechrightsSocial | @qu1j0t3: You are so right, @ToewsVic! I forgot to mention the yoghurt. Glad yr ppl are watching for mistakes! #TellVicEverything #StopHarper #cdnpoli | Feb 20 18:45 |
| schestowitz | my computers take so little power compared to heat | Feb 20 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand why there are not more people who just opt for the 24/7 connectivity thing | Feb 20 18:45 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: happy Harper | Feb 20 18:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: geek life | Feb 20 18:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: all my machines sleep daily, but are never rebooted | Feb 20 18:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | this laptop: | Feb 20 18:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | y$ w | Feb 20 18:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | 13:50 up 120 days, 3:24, 8 users, load averages: 1.90 1.83 1.61 | Feb 20 18:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: oh crap, just noticed a typo in the bot changeset | Feb 20 18:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: nothing that will affect TR | Feb 20 18:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: was working late and tired | Feb 20 18:53 |
| XFaCE | qu1j0t3: lol | Feb 20 18:55 |
| XFaCE | qu1j0t3: what were you responding to? | Feb 20 18:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | XFaCE: nothing. was just feeling mad. | Feb 20 18:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | XFaCE: fucking Harper Conservatives. Fuck them with a chainsaw. | Feb 20 18:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | and fuck the idiots who voted for them | Feb 20 18:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | who know nothing about history | Feb 20 18:58 |
| schestowitz | sounds like the descend of .ca | Feb 20 19:30 |
| schestowitz | like when Bush took over from Bush | Feb 20 19:30 |
| schestowitz | and went banging on the whole world | Feb 20 19:30 |
| schestowitz | on many front | Feb 20 19:30 |
| schestowitz | creating more resentment towards the US | Feb 20 19:30 |
| schestowitz | over one terror attacj | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: seems like she's most likely to come here... not sure about N. America | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | "" | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | > are you still getting married? | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | We talk as though we are. Her dad is cool with that too. Not sure when | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | though... | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | " | Feb 20 19:31 |
| schestowitz | [from some email justsent back to a friend] | Feb 20 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | k | Feb 20 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | well there's no rush :D | Feb 20 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's good to get to know someone | Feb 20 19:32 |
| schestowitz | not sure me | Feb 20 19:32 |
| schestowitz | oops | Feb 20 19:32 |
| schestowitz | typos | Feb 20 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's no downside to waiting (except immigration blah) | Feb 20 19:32 |
| schestowitz | I meant | Feb 20 19:32 |
| schestowitz | not for me (the rush) | Feb 20 19:32 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: nor immigration, Canada and US are just not even worth it | Feb 20 19:33 |
| schestowitz | like, if you moved from Europe (except P.I.G.S.) to the US.. | Feb 20 19:33 |
| schestowitz | makes no sense | Feb 20 19:33 |
| schestowitz | anyway, she said she'd stay here | Feb 20 19:33 |
| schestowitz | given the choice | Feb 20 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: right, i don't recommend north america... | Feb 20 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | obv | Feb 20 19:34 |
| schestowitz | but it can take a year to adjust some stuff, finishing current work, etc. | Feb 20 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes. | Feb 20 19:34 |
| schestowitz | cool | Feb 20 19:34 |
| schestowitz | not even Canada? | Feb 20 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | deifnitely. it took me something like 2 yrs to do it. | Feb 20 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Cause that's probbaly the last chance I get to move | Feb 20 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: not under present circumstances, no. | Feb 20 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: if i were in your shoes i'd be moving to western/ southern europe :D | Feb 20 19:35 |
| schestowitz | she worries about kids having to move between places, it's not the same for adults | Feb 20 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: or maybe northern europe | Feb 20 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | kids benefit from travel. | Feb 20 19:35 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: mind if I ask, did you have kids? | Feb 20 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: 1 daughter in uni. none who live with me. | Feb 20 19:35 |
| schestowitz | cause I think that's the only point where moving becomes too hard, it's another shackle | Feb 20 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | i disagree. | Feb 20 19:35 |
| schestowitz | [19:35] <qu1j0t3> schestowitz: or maybe northern europe | Feb 20 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Not part of EU | Feb 20 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Not the lucrative places anyway | Feb 20 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | kids can benefit hugely from travel, especially exposure to other languges. | Feb 20 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | i could name my cousins -- many born overseas, most learned other languges, lived in 6 different countries etc | Feb 20 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | gives them an amazing advantage mentally, outlook, language skills | Feb 20 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | parents travelled as research scientists | Feb 20 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | high level | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | foreign aid | Feb 20 19:37 |
| schestowitz | that's a bit different | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | is it? | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's career based. | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | travel to nourish a career and broaden minds is vlid. | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | valid* | Feb 20 19:37 |
| schestowitz | yeah, but they usually are still based on one key place | Feb 20 19:37 |
| schestowitz | sometimes | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | better than stagnation.. look what happens | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: that can be a major downside | Feb 20 19:37 |
| schestowitz | I know some who moved to NZ | Feb 20 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, NZ is isolated. that's different. | Feb 20 19:38 |
| schestowitz | both of them... researchers... same university | Feb 20 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's also English speaking. | Feb 20 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | these kids i mean -- one grw up in china, others philippines, indonesia; family has been in syria for a few years; just left. | Feb 20 19:38 |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: but where would you go in w/s europe? | Feb 20 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I'd say, the non-EU members | Feb 20 19:41 |
| qu1j0t3 | several options would suit me | Feb 20 19:41 |
| schestowitz | those too well off to join the band | Feb 20 19:41 |
| qu1j0t3 | but, it's not a priority now | Feb 20 19:41 |
| schestowitz | .cs, .nl... | Feb 20 19:41 |
| schestowitz | is denmaark in it? | Feb 20 19:41 |
| schestowitz | /s/.cs/.ch/ | Feb 20 19:42 |
| schestowitz | unemployment is Germany is reasonably low now, so a good place for EU members to move to for simply labour | Feb 20 19:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | i turned down a job there in 2008 | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | frankfurt wouldn't have suited $WIFE | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | we had no desire to learn german | Feb 20 19:43 |
| schestowitz | diverse? | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, i liked it | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | but she'd have had nothing to do | Feb 20 19:43 |
| MinceR | i thought the swiss were xenophobic | Feb 20 19:43 |
| schestowitz | big airport | Feb 20 19:43 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: they are | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: not in my experience. | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: probably rural swiss may be | Feb 20 19:43 |
| schestowitz | maybe in resorts | Feb 20 19:43 |
| MinceR | ic | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: but the cities are quite cosmopolitan | Feb 20 19:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: at worst it might be like Bavaria | Feb 20 19:44 |
| schestowitz | luzern, bern, zurich.. | Feb 20 19:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: which I couldn't take :) | Feb 20 19:44 |
| schestowitz | many tourists | Feb 20 19:44 |
| schestowitz | so they mustb adapt | Feb 20 19:44 |
| MinceR | qu1j0t3: what was bavaria like? | Feb 20 19:44 |
| schestowitz | same in the UK | Feb 20 19:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: i visited area around Munich a while back -- to me it felt conservative, claustrophobic ... conformist. | Feb 20 19:44 |
| MinceR | ic | Feb 20 19:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: i did not get that from say Zürich | Feb 20 19:44 |
| MinceR | :) | Feb 20 19:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | MinceR: Bavaria has that reputation, i think. | Feb 20 19:45 |
| MinceR | have you worked in switzerland or just visited? | Feb 20 19:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | just visited. i wanted to work there. | Feb 20 19:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | brother in law worked there for a few years. | Feb 20 19:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | but as i say, moving to europe isn't likely now | Feb 20 19:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | if wife wasn't doing a degree, then i would move for a decent job | Feb 20 19:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | (i'd be searching) | Feb 20 19:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | :) | Feb 20 19:46 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: denmark and netherlands are EU members | Feb 20 19:46 |
| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: see? you got stuck now, man.. | Feb 20 19:46 |
| MinceR | norway isn't, though | Feb 20 19:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: ya | Feb 20 19:46 |
| MinceR | and neither is iceland | Feb 20 19:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: compromise, compromise :) | Feb 20 19:47 |
| schestowitz | That's why I do my homework now | Feb 20 19:47 |
| schestowitz | :-p | Feb 20 19:47 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: remember TJ/Amazing Athiests: he wants to quit the US and move to germany | Feb 20 19:47 |
| schestowitz | *Atheist | Feb 20 19:48 |
| schestowitz | or at least in a hypothetical sort of way, cause he can't | Feb 20 19:48 |
| schestowitz | novel concept: escaping TO Germany | Feb 20 19:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | why novel | Feb 20 19:49 |
| schestowitz | joke | Feb 20 19:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | :) | Feb 20 19:49 |
| schestowitz | but I think I hear many people speaking of moving | Feb 20 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Some can't | Feb 20 19:49 |
| schestowitz | some are too young | Feb 20 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Some are too old | Feb 20 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Some too poor | Feb 20 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Some saddled to wife/+kids | Feb 20 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Language too is a factor, in some cases immigration and family | Feb 20 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Singapore seems to be doing well | Feb 20 19:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | wouldn't work for me | Feb 20 19:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | nor would Dubai (!!) | Feb 20 19:54 |
| schestowitz | yuk | Feb 20 19:54 |
| schestowitz | haven't they gone bust yet? | Feb 20 19:54 |
| schestowitz | I guess they always can pay back the loan by edxtracting more black stuff from the ground | Feb 20 19:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | :< | Feb 20 19:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | Dubai is a great symbol of what went wrong | Feb 20 19:55 |
| schestowitz | I think the people (foreign workers) jumping at the Mercedes were more symbolic than that | Feb 20 19:56 |
| schestowitz | !google dubai jump in front car | Feb 20 19:57 |
| TechrightsSocial | [1] - Pedestrian Jumps In Front Of A Car | http://www.vidiload.com/video/107189/Pedestrian_Jumps_In_Front_Of_A_Car/ | Feb 20 19:57 |
| TechrightsSocial | [2] - BAJA 5T 90Kmh Top Speed, Onboard GoPro HD, Jump, Crash ... | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DkBQmAV4pjic | Feb 20 19:57 |
| TechrightsSocial | [3] - Mercedes-Benz Dubai - What's new and events - Buckle Up In The ... | http://www.gargash.mercedes-benz.com/content/dubai/mpc/mpc_dubai_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/about_us/news_and_events/0.html | Feb 20 19:57 |
| TechrightsSocial | [4] - Nissan Murano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Murano | Feb 20 19:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: well, that's part of Dubai. | Feb 20 20:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: everything about it derives from the basic error | Feb 20 20:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: including the fact that Halliburton and allegedly Cheneys and Erik Prince 'relocated' there... maybe it got a bit hot legally in USA... | Feb 20 20:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: "Gotta fix that" | Feb 20 20:03 |
| MinceR | germany, the land of no free speech? no thanks. :) | Feb 20 20:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: https://twitter.com/#!/GeorgeMonbiot/status/171693945389199360 | Feb 20 20:40 |
| TechrightsSocial | @GeorgeMonbiot: This week's column: plutocracy pure and simple - the billionaires' total capture of politics: http://t.co/9tq8nxg7 | Feb 20 20:40 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: We need to know who funds these thinktank lobbyists | George Monbiot | Comment is free | The Guardian .::. Size~: 130.16 KB | Feb 20 20:40 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: because of the Nazi laws? | Feb 20 20:47 |
| schestowitz | aside from that, free speech is said to be respected in Germany, in some ways better than in the US in that regard | Feb 20 20:48 |
| MinceR | because of that and because the way they treat video games | Feb 20 21:08 |
| schestowitz | I forgot about these laws there | Feb 20 21:10 |
| schestowitz | Those court also go overboard with Apple litigation recently | Feb 20 21:10 |
| MinceR | if you wanted to play with the carmageddon series, you'd be aware of them :> | Feb 20 21:12 |
| MinceR | they were crippled for the german market, like many others | Feb 20 21:12 |
| MinceR | hm, i wonder if you're allowed to publish the skeletal model of tetraethylmethane in germany... | Feb 20 21:27 |
| schestowitz | maybe if it weara a good bra | Feb 20 21:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | .... | Feb 20 21:42 |
| MinceR | or whether jainists are allowed to use their most sacred symbol | Feb 20 21:44 |
| schestowitz | as long as it has goof *support* | Feb 20 22:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | Jedi first | Feb 20 22:06 |
| MinceR | eat the kids first | Feb 20 22:08 |
| schestowitz | I suppose you recommend the veal then | Feb 20 22:09 |
| MinceR | http://www.engrish.com/2011/12/baby-burger/ | Feb 20 22:11 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Baby Burger | Engrish.com .::. Size~: 70.2 KB | Feb 20 22:11 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: hoax? | Feb 20 22:12 |
| MinceR | no, just engrish | Feb 20 22:12 |
| MinceR | i trust you're aware of the "baby-eating atheist" meme :) | Feb 20 22:14 |
| schestowitz | just atheist? | Feb 20 22:15 |
| schestowitz | that meme is broader than this, AFAIK | Feb 20 22:15 |
| MinceR | and this >> http://www.greatvanityplates.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/1925949768_3be0a3aee9.jpg | Feb 20 22:15 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Feb 20 22:15 |
| schestowitz | !google "dingo ate yo baby" | Feb 20 22:16 |
| TechrightsSocial | [1] - dingo ate yo baby - YouTube | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D0CHMsoj8k8s | Feb 20 22:16 |
| TechrightsSocial | [2] - Da DINGO ATE YO BABY!! - YouTube | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DjqUPaC_im1M | Feb 20 22:16 |
| TechrightsSocial | [3] - The Dingo Ate Your Baby | Facebook | http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php%3Fv%3D296171055899 | Feb 20 22:16 |
| TechrightsSocial | [4] - Date set for fresh Azaria Chamberlain inquest ("The dingo's got my ... | http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2821773/posts | Feb 20 22:16 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I know this licence plate | Feb 20 22:16 |
| schestowitz | it got complaints, no? | Feb 20 22:16 |
| MinceR | :) | Feb 20 22:16 |
| MinceR | dunno | Feb 20 22:16 |
| schestowitz | da baby ate YO DINGO! | Feb 20 22:17 |
| MinceR | http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/images/12/2011/11/4a159c1a54fb3e6c14c7507658d294eb.jpg | Feb 20 22:18 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Feb 20 22:18 |
| MinceR | it did | Feb 20 22:18 |
| MinceR | article at http://jalopnik.com/5724684/virginia-dmv-revokes-worlds-greatest-license-plate (warning, gizmodo bloat network) | Feb 20 22:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Virginia DMV Revokes World's Greatest License Plate .::. Size~: 108.37 KB | Feb 20 22:19 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Feb 20 23:26 |
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