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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: February 12th, 2012

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prurigroDaemonFC, thanks for mentioning clementine-- that's honestly like the best music player everFeb 12 00:09
prurigroI can't believe it works with my digitally imported subscription!Feb 12 00:10
prurigroand I think its the only music player out there right now that works with projectMFeb 12 00:10
prurigrolike, without having to run it through pulse or phonon or somethingFeb 12 00:10
brendyni was using it but then it got removed from parabola ;/Feb 12 00:14
brendynprurigro: any idea how to download flash vids of a random site?Feb 12 00:15
prurigrobrendyn, surely it could be compiled with only support for free stuff?Feb 12 00:16
prurigrobrendyn, hmm, it depends on the site-- I've had good luck with various plugins for various sitesFeb 12 00:16
prurigrothey all seem to cater to a particular set of playersFeb 12 00:16
brendyncan you try one of these vids? 12 00:16
brendyn"“clementine::asks to download an unfree plugin to support spotify [[354]]” so if that line was removed from the package then clementine-libre would be ok. You can take a look at source."Feb 12 00:18
prurigroahh wordFeb 12 00:18
prurigrobasically: easy fix, but no time- someone else do itFeb 12 00:18
prurigroI was actually considering the removal of all the services I didn't useFeb 12 00:18
prurigrosince you can't disable themFeb 12 00:19
DaemonFCClementine includes the Spotify plug-in in their Ubuntu packageFeb 12 00:19
DaemonFCif it bothers you, delete the plug-in and Clementine still worksFeb 12 00:19
prurigrooh are the compiled separately?Feb 12 00:19
DaemonFCor grab the source code, the source code tarball doesn't include that blobFeb 12 00:19
brendynwell a -libre package needs to be made or i compile it myselfFeb 12 00:20
DaemonFCyeah, the spotify blob is a shared objectFeb 12 00:20
DaemonFCif it's not there, it's not there, the rest of the Clementine software still worksFeb 12 00:20
prurigrosweetFeb 12 00:21
prurigroclementine is too awesome to not have that capability, thinking about it :)Feb 12 00:21
DaemonFCI don't use that blob, I deleted my spotify account after my free trial was uoFeb 12 00:22
DaemonFC*upFeb 12 00:22
brendynso have they added much or is it just the old amarok?Feb 12 00:22
DaemonFCif they released a client under an open source license, or had a public API implemented by media players, then I'd probably change my mindFeb 12 00:22
DaemonFCbut right now you not only need nonfree software, it's the Windows version in WineFeb 12 00:22
DaemonFC(or you can use their nonfree Clementine blobFeb 12 00:23
prurigrobrendyn, they seem to have made an entirely new product to replace the original amarok?Feb 12 00:23
DaemonFCLast.FM has an API for media players and an official client under the GPLFeb 12 00:23
prurigrolike, the new amarok doesn't look much like this, does it?Feb 12 00:23
DaemonFCthey started with Amarok 1.4Feb 12 00:23
prurigrobut this is qt4Feb 12 00:24
prurigrowasn't amarok 1.x qt3?Feb 12 00:24
DaemonFCthe biggest changes are that it was ported to Qt4, its dependencies on kdelibs are gone, and it uses Gstreamer instead of XineFeb 12 00:24
prurigroahh word, yea-- see, that's what amarok shoulda doneFeb 12 00:24
prurigroimhoFeb 12 00:24
prurigroI thought it was a great media player, minus maybe kde reqs when running in xfce or somethingFeb 12 00:24
DaemonFCcertain KDE developers are insaneFeb 12 00:25
prurigrooh?Feb 12 00:25
DaemonFCyou have them talking about private copies of kdelibs functionality nowFeb 12 00:25
prurigroper app?Feb 12 00:25
DaemonFCso you could end up with KDE on *nix getting fatter so that they can more easily make standalone Windows and OS X softwareFeb 12 00:25
DaemonFCyeahFeb 12 00:25
prurigroyea, that's not cool with me at allFeb 12 00:26
prurigrodo like gtk-- make a .dll you can throw in the directory of a kde app getting portedFeb 12 00:26
prurigroand leave it at thatFeb 12 00:26
DaemonFCthey already try to accommodate every broken compiler out thereFeb 12 00:26
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Hey !lazyweb ⇒Looking for #freesoftware video editing suggestions [still photo/cut 2 music animation w/HD webM output !SelfPub #BookTrailerFeb 12 00:26
prurigrobroken =?Feb 12 00:26
DaemonFClike MS Visual Studio and Sun StudioFeb 12 00:26
DaemonFCwhich are nonfree and badly out of complianceFeb 12 00:26
DaemonFCif they want to target compilers, the only ones worth targeting are GCC and ClangFeb 12 00:27
prurigrohaha, I figured you were gonna say visual studio :)Feb 12 00:27
DaemonFCa lot of KDE stuff still depends on GNU AutocrapFeb 12 00:27
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 00:27
DaemonFCwhen it should all be moved over to sconsFeb 12 00:27
prurigroscons?Feb 12 00:28
DaemonFC 12 00:28
prurigrois that another, more cross platform cmake like setup?Feb 12 00:28
prurigroahh coolFeb 12 00:28
DaemonFCyeahFeb 12 00:28
prurigrocmake works well tooFeb 12 00:28
DaemonFCexcept that it's fucking hugeFeb 12 00:28
prurigroyou can get it to generate xcode and visual studio packages iircFeb 12 00:29
prurigroand yea?Feb 12 00:29
DaemonFCMesa uses sconsFeb 12 00:29
prurigro28 megsFeb 12 00:29
DaemonFCthey've deleted everything related to AutocrapFeb 12 00:29
prurigrofor a text based app, yea, that's pretty bigFeb 12 00:29
prurigroand lolFeb 12 00:29 12 00:29
DaemonFC 12 00:30
DaemonFCshell script execution speed depends a lot on what shell you have executing itFeb 12 00:30
prurigroI'll admitFeb 12 00:30
DaemonFCbash is not greatFeb 12 00:31
prurigroits a lot of setup when you're not trying to make a huge appFeb 12 00:31
DaemonFCand it extends POSIXFeb 12 00:31
prurigroI love bashFeb 12 00:31
prurigrobut not for everythingFeb 12 00:31
DaemonFCI have /bin/zsh as my login shell and as /bin/shFeb 12 00:31
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 00:31
prurigrohahaFeb 12 00:31
brendynyou said you had kshFeb 12 00:32
prurigrozsh can run most sh anyway no?Feb 12 00:32
DaemonFCwhen called as sh, zsh runs as a korn shellFeb 12 00:32
DaemonFCso I actually decided to just switch from korn to zsh as shFeb 12 00:32
DaemonFCif you call /bin/sh and it's a symlink to /bin/zsh you have the functionality of Korn 93Feb 12 00:33
DaemonFCUbuntu defaults to dash as /bin/shFeb 12 00:33
DaemonFCall you have to do is delete /bin/sh and make a new symlink to whatever you really want as shFeb 12 00:33
*amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)Feb 12 00:34
DaemonFCDebian still uses bash as sh, so if you switch to a POSIX compliant shell as sh, your system won't bootFeb 12 00:34
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 00:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] @ stav !facebook wants to knows the strength of your tie to your niece's friend's neighbor's roommate's brother-in-law's cat to sell infoFeb 12 00:36
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eff/@eff] #Iran ratchets up its Internet #censorship, partially blocks HTTPS 12 00:36
*amarsh04 (~amarsh04@2001:44b8:61::d) has joined #techrightsFeb 12 00:36
DaemonFCprurigro: Since Ubuntu's startup scripts are POSIX compliant, you can use any shell that is POSIX compliantFeb 12 00:37
prurigroahh wordFeb 12 00:38
DaemonFCincluding bash, but I don't know why you wouldFeb 12 00:38
scientesuggghhhhFeb 12 00:38
prurigrohaha, well, bash is comfyFeb 12 00:38
scientessystemd FTWFeb 12 00:38
scientesbut yeah, dash is fasterFeb 12 00:38
scientesand you still use bash as your shellFeb 12 00:38
scientesbut systemd is the real answerFeb 12 00:38
DaemonFCyou can leave bash installed and just not use itFeb 12 00:39
brendynbash is copyleft, zsh isntFeb 12 00:39
scientesprurigro, are you contemplating removing bash?Feb 12 00:40
DaemonFCand then if a script fails to run because it failed to declare that it's not POSIX compliant and needs bash, you can put a shebang in it to call bash to run the script then exitFeb 12 00:40
scientescmake pulled in some crazy dependancies for when i was building somethingFeb 12 00:40
DaemonFCApple never should have used bashFeb 12 00:40
DaemonFCthey've gotten themselves in a real pickleFeb 12 00:40
DaemonFCnow they can't get rid of it or anyone that wrote a script using bashisms will have their scripts fail to runFeb 12 00:41
scienteswhats wrong with bash?Feb 12 00:41
prurigroscientes, I keep getting systemd mixed up recently-- which one is the one that apple uses? and which uses rc.d?Feb 12 00:41
prurigroscientes, I'm not really ready to remove bash atm-- DaemonFC was making his case thoughFeb 12 00:41
scientesprurigro, apple uses launchd, systemd was heavily inspired by launchd---old venerable sysvinit uses rc.d--however debian improved it with dependancy based bootingFeb 12 00:41
DaemonFCI think that something that extends POSIX shell is not a good thingFeb 12 00:41
scientesprurigro, what are you trying to do?Feb 12 00:41
DaemonFCthey're trying to trap people with bash by using the tactics of Internet ExplorerFeb 12 00:42
scientessystemd is clearly the futureFeb 12 00:42
prurigroahh, I like sysv thenFeb 12 00:42
scientesand is clearly superior, than horrible sysv init scripts---in /etc/init.d/fooFeb 12 00:42
prurigroand I really dislike systemd/launchdFeb 12 00:42
scientesthat are impossible to changeFeb 12 00:42
scientesand create so many fork() system callsFeb 12 00:42
scienteswhat distro are you using?Feb 12 00:42
prurigroscientes, if you mean me-- archFeb 12 00:43
scientes 12 00:43
scientessystemd supports sysv init scriptsFeb 12 00:43
DaemonFCit happens sometimes that among free software, the GPL'd software is not as good as the MIT or BSD licensed softwareFeb 12 00:43
DaemonFCor even MPL or CDDLFeb 12 00:43
brendyni heard they doint work too well thoughFeb 12 00:43
DaemonFCor tons of other free licensesFeb 12 00:43
DaemonFCif that's the case, then it just becomes a case of political correctness that causes distros to ship the GPL'd softwareFeb 12 00:44
prurigroscientes, ohh kk, well then, basically, I like having rc.d for custom launch scriptsFeb 12 00:44
brendynwhich is the better one out of the libtorrents?Feb 12 00:44
scientesprurigro, you mean /etc/rc.local?Feb 12 00:44
prurigroscientes, but if arch uses systemd and works with those, then I'm cool with it :)Feb 12 00:44
scientesoh yeah same thing---systemd supports thatFeb 12 00:44
prurigroscientes, /etc/rc.d/*Feb 12 00:45
prurigrowhy doesn't ubuntu work with those then?Feb 12 00:45
scientesbut systemd also have /etc/tmpfiles.d/ so you don't have all this ugly bash shit with mkdir -p, etcFeb 12 00:45
scientesand also a build-in tmpreaper that ----well, not sure there are security implications of tmp reapingFeb 12 00:45
prurigroscientes, oh was that why back in the day you'd have /etc/init.d/rc0, 1, 2 etc?Feb 12 00:46
scientesyou should install systemd and start trying it outFeb 12 00:46
scientesits much more flexible than the old runlevel systemFeb 12 00:46
DaemonFCI don't see anything wrong with using permissively licensed free software, if I did I wouldn't be using a lot of thingsFeb 12 00:46
DaemonFCso if there's a better shell than bash and it's under a permissive license, I'll use itFeb 12 00:46
DaemonFCand that shell is zshFeb 12 00:46
scientesand fasterFeb 12 00:46
scientesand cleanerFeb 12 00:46
prurigroscientes, oh hmm, so I am using the old setup--- I dunno, is it just gonna be changing backend stuff? or am I gonna need to move my configuration around?Feb 12 00:47
DaemonFCthe GPL political correctness has wedged GPL'd software in as a replacement for something better that everyone had already more or less standardized on beforeFeb 12 00:47
DaemonFCLILO v. GRUB LegacyFeb 12 00:47
DaemonFCthe fact that GRUB 2 became usable 8 years later isn't going to cut itFeb 12 00:47
DaemonFCyou're arguing that the ends justify the means at that pointFeb 12 00:47
DaemonFCof course there's certainly examples of permissive licensing causing disasters Feb 12 00:47
DaemonFC(FreeBSD)Feb 12 00:47
scientesit will work out-of-the box with your existing sytem, however it wont have a big improvement on boot speeds until it gets used moreFeb 12 00:48
prurigroDaemonFC, arch employs lots of MIT stuff that kicks the crap out of GPL stuff, like tmux vs screenFeb 12 00:48
scientesfedora where it is getting pushed the hardestFeb 12 00:48
DaemonFCif Linux had been under the BSD, it would have been dozens of companies grabbing the Linux code and burying a private fork into proprietary UNIX systemsFeb 12 00:48
DaemonFCGPL 2 stopped that and centered development around one unified Linux kernelFeb 12 00:48
scientesDaemonFC is a troll, you have to always keep that in mindFeb 12 00:48
prurigroDaemonFC, err, BSD for tmux, rather, not MIT :)Feb 12 00:49
prurigrohaha, everyone says that, but I haven't seen anything I'd say was for sure trolling from DaemonFC Feb 12 00:50
prurigroexcept in relation to Diablo-D3 Feb 12 00:50
Diablo-D3bsd, mit, same differenceFeb 12 00:51
DaemonFChmmm, actually zsh is a hard link to zsh4Feb 12 00:51
prurigroDiablo-D3, isn't MIT a bit more open?Feb 12 00:51
*DaemonFC rearranges everything to point to zsh4Feb 12 00:51
Diablo-D32, 3, 4 clause bsd, MIT, X, zlib, isc, all part of the bsd familyFeb 12 00:51
DaemonFCthis hardlink symling crap gets confusingFeb 12 00:51
prurigrooh interestingFeb 12 00:51
DaemonFCthey pretty much all just declare that they own the copyright and their notice must be preservedFeb 12 00:52
prurigroit feels like more web stuff uses MIT though, while software typically shoots for BSDFeb 12 00:52
DaemonFCand now you can do anything you want with the software, including making nuclear bombs to drop on AustraliaFeb 12 00:52
DaemonFCB-)Feb 12 00:52
Diablo-D3prurigro: no, MIT is a 3 clause BSD license, depending on which oneFeb 12 00:52
brendynnot australia :[Feb 12 00:52
Diablo-D3the current X license is still a 4 clause BSD licenseFeb 12 00:52
prurigroDiablo-D3, does that mean cut down, of there's a 4th clause?Feb 12 00:53
prurigroand surely that would be an important difference?Feb 12 00:53
Diablo-D3the 4th clause is the advertising clauseFeb 12 00:53
prurigrooh hmFeb 12 00:53
DaemonFCthat's wrongFeb 12 00:53
prurigroso you can advertise for MIT stuff, but not 4th clause BSD?Feb 12 00:53
Diablo-D3almost nothing uses 4 clause BSD Feb 12 00:53
DaemonFChe's talking about the XFree86 1.1 licenseFeb 12 00:53
DaemonFCthat's the one with the advertising clauseFeb 12 00:53 never had thatFeb 12 00:53
Diablo-D34 clause is not GPL compatible, btwFeb 12 00:54 forked the last code under the XFree86 1.0 licenseFeb 12 00:54
Diablo-D3but a LOT of shit dropped it in favor of 3 clauseFeb 12 00:54
DaemonFCand so it never got the advertising clauseFeb 12 00:54
DaemonFCand 4 clause is GPL compatibleFeb 12 00:54
DaemonFCGPL 3Feb 12 00:54
DaemonFCnot 2 thoughFeb 12 00:54
prurigrodoes the 4th say advertising = good or bad?Feb 12 00:55
Diablo-D3badFeb 12 00:55
DaemonFCGPL 2 flat out states that you can't make any requirements that are not in the GPL 2Feb 12 00:55
DaemonFCGPL 3 eases up on that requirement so licenses with the advertising clause or ones that say you ahve to ask permission to use their trade marks, are now compatibleFeb 12 00:55
prurigrointeresting-- I feel like advertising shouldn't have anything to do with anythingFeb 12 00:55
prurigrodefine advertising, you knowFeb 12 00:56
Diablo-D3erm, dude, the license IS publicFeb 12 00:56
Diablo-D3 12 00:56
DaemonFCif you make a release manual, documentation, or marketing packet, and tehre's an advertising clause, it means you must list everyone that contributed code you are using under such terms in your materialsFeb 12 00:56
prurigrotrue, I guess I was being lazy for the sake of conversation :)Feb 12 00:56
DaemonFCat one point, NetBSD had to list 72 individuals and companies in their manuals and advertising materialsFeb 12 00:57
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 00:57
prurigroohh wordFeb 12 00:57
DaemonFCthey ended up rewriting some stuff themselves to get out of that requirementFeb 12 00:57
Diablo-D3oh, and I forgot, ASL2Feb 12 00:57
DaemonFCthat's why RMS says advertising clauses are obnoxiousFeb 12 00:57
Diablo-D3a 3 clause BSD with GPL3-esque patent languageFeb 12 00:57
DaemonFCbut htey don't make the software nonfreeFeb 12 00:57
prurigrothat sounds fair, unless we're talking about product placement or somethingFeb 12 00:57
Diablo-D3prurigro: basically it prevented people from complying with the copyrightFeb 12 00:58
DaemonFCthe original BSD code is still under that 4 clause licenseFeb 12 00:58
Diablo-D3like, if you said your program, say, used berkleybdFeb 12 00:58
DaemonFCthat's why you see stuff mention the Regents of the University of CaliforniaFeb 12 00:58
Diablo-D3you'd be in violation of the 4th clauseFeb 12 00:58
Diablo-D3just by saying itFeb 12 00:58
Diablo-D3it was insane and nonsensicalFeb 12 00:58
prurigroDiablo-D3, it feels like its saying the opposite?Feb 12 00:58
Diablo-D3yeah, thats the hilarity of itFeb 12 00:59
DaemonFCas more and more people contribute under those terms, the list of people you have to mention in your manuals and advertising materials grows and growsFeb 12 00:59
Diablo-D3what they meant and what it does are two different thingsFeb 12 00:59
*DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)Feb 12 00:59
prurigrooh man, this is why I never went into lawFeb 12 00:59
prurigrocomputers, typically, are doing what they look like they're supposed to doFeb 12 00:59
Diablo-D3read the part where netbsd needed 75 agreements to just ship the distroFeb 12 01:00
prurigroholy crap hahaFeb 12 01:00
prurigroopen source would never get off the groundFeb 12 01:00
Diablo-D3yeah exactlyFeb 12 01:00
Diablo-D3everyone rejected the 4th clause because its absurdFeb 12 01:00
prurigrono kidding ehFeb 12 01:00
*DaemonFC (~daemonfc@unaffiliated/daemonfc) has joined #techrightsFeb 12 01:01
prurigrosounds like it was made in an era that hadn't had the imagination for our ownFeb 12 01:01
prurigrostallman is interest ingFeb 12 01:01
prurigrosometimes he seems wayy too hardcoreFeb 12 01:01
DaemonFCpurging the original BSD license from a BSD distribution would include the task of rewriting hundreds of thousands of lines of codeFeb 12 01:01
DaemonFCso their goal is to get rid of all the trivial things that use itFeb 12 01:02
DaemonFCand not include moreFeb 12 01:02
prurigrobut other times he's quite liberal on an area like this, and I usually agree with his sentimentsFeb 12 01:02
Diablo-D3the original X license (a MIT descendant) is a 4 clause BSDFeb 12 01:02
prurigroDaemonFC, that sounds like a good plan-- you're talking about including the 4th clause?Feb 12 01:02
Diablo-D3Xorg has been eradicating that stupidity where availableFeb 12 01:03
prurigroDiablo-D3, how did X get out of that?Feb 12 01:03
prurigroahhFeb 12 01:03
DaemonFC 12 01:03
prurigroso its still somewhat trapped?Feb 12 01:03
Diablo-D3I mean, technically, it was never a problemFeb 12 01:03
DaemonFCthere is no advertising clauseFeb 12 01:03
Diablo-D3everyone ignored itFeb 12 01:03
DaemonFChe's talking about the XFree86 1.1 licenseFeb 12 01:03
DaemonFCwhich never affected in any wayFeb 12 01:03
DaemonFCnot the original X11 licenseFeb 12 01:03
prurigroDaemonFC, "the same version as the Expat license, not identical with the X sources"Feb 12 01:03
Diablo-D3I have DaemonFC on ignoreFeb 12 01:04
DaemonFCCopyright (C) 1996 X ConsortiumFeb 12 01:04
DaemonFCPermission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:Feb 12 01:04
DaemonFCThe above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.Feb 12 01:04
DaemonFCExcept as contained in this notice, the name of the X Consortium shall not be used in advertising or otherwise to promote the sale, use or other dealings in this Software without prior written authorization from the X Consortium.Feb 12 01:04
DaemonFCX Window System is a trademark of X Consortium, Inc.Feb 12 01:04
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 01:04
Diablo-D3but usually when someone says mit license, they specifically mean the expat license, which is a modified 3 clauseFeb 12 01:04
Diablo-D3the original x11 license added the 4th clause back inFeb 12 01:04
DaemonFCthe X Consortium license, which is the one uses doesn't have any advertising clauseFeb 12 01:05
Diablo-D3otoh, you have shit like isc, which is a 2 clause BSD written in englishFeb 12 01:05
prurigroDiablo-D3, haha, I figured as much-- and its been interesting responding to both of you considering that :)Feb 12 01:05
prurigroand hmm, and in law, a clause is one paragraph?Feb 12 01:06
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] Whitney Houston is brown breadFeb 12 01:06
Diablo-D3prurigro: noFeb 12 01:06
Diablo-D3the clauses in bsd are numberedFeb 12 01:06
Diablo-D31, 2, 3, and 4Feb 12 01:06
prurigroahh, 'one proposition'Feb 12 01:07
Diablo-D3ISC, for example, keeps the text, but gets rid of the numberingFeb 12 01:07
Diablo-D3asl2 formats it differently too, using a shitload more languageFeb 12 01:07
prurigroDaemonFC, think that's why they changed the name?Feb 12 01:07
prurigroDiablo-D3, ISC sounds kinda pointless then?Feb 12 01:08
Diablo-D3noFeb 12 01:08
Diablo-D3not at allFeb 12 01:08
Diablo-D3its still a 2 clause BSDFeb 12 01:08
Diablo-D3its just written in plain englishFeb 12 01:08
DaemonFCprurigro: The license was just the last strawFeb 12 01:10
DaemonFCXFree86 was never really openFeb 12 01:11
DaemonFCvendors of their software had to maintain extensive patch sets with no formal process to get them into XFree86Feb 12 01:11
DaemonFCand XFree86 users often had to wait months or years to even get basic support for new video cardsFeb 12 01:11
prurigroDiablo-D3, for the sake of the reader, kind of thing?Feb 12 01:12
prurigroDaemonFC, yea, I'm really glad xorg split offFeb 12 01:12
prurigroon that noteFeb 12 01:12
Diablo-D3prurigro: basicallyFeb 12 01:13
Diablo-D3some people think the excessive legal wording is a bugFeb 12 01:13
DaemonFCthe GPL only gets larger because proprietary software and hardware companies keep finding ways to misuse free software under the existing GPLFeb 12 01:14
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Peter Mandelson Nat Rothschild: The Mail strikes a blow for freedom of the Press | Mail Online #tptb #uk #msmFeb 12 01:14
prurigroDiablo-D3, I feel like it could be handy to have something air tight in law, and something explaining that on the side, if anythingFeb 12 01:15
prurigronormal english is slightly ambiguous Feb 12 01:16
prurigroDaemonFC, touche eh hahaFeb 12 01:16
Diablo-D3nothing ambigious about thatFeb 12 01:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jankusanagi/@jankusanagi] test AFeb 12 01:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jankusanagi/@jankusanagi] @jankusanagi Test BFeb 12 01:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jankusanagi/@jankusanagi] Test C, reply to BFeb 12 01:18
prurigroDiablo-D3, you mean the wording is correct in law?Feb 12 01:19
brendynits still perfectly possible to be explicit in englishFeb 12 01:19
brendynavoiding grammatical ambiguitiesFeb 12 01:19
brendynon the other hand no language escapes semantic ambiguityFeb 12 01:19
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[stumbles/@stumbles] FTA guest lecturer should fail himself for using propaganda terms, "intellectual property" and "piracy": 12 01:19
Diablo-D3prurigro: read the ISCFeb 12 01:21
Diablo-D3its rather simpleFeb 12 01:21
brendynDiablo's hero uses iscFeb 12 01:22
Diablo-D3who? because Ive used isc myselfFeb 12 01:22
brendynnenolodFeb 12 01:22
Diablo-D3I think nenolod might have actually gotten that from me, Im not sureFeb 12 01:22
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[stumbles/@stumbles] FTA guest lecturer should fail course for using propaganda terms "intellectual property" and "piracy": !ftaFeb 12 01:23
Diablo-D3I used to be strongly pro BSD, but now its flipped, hes strongly BSDite and Im strongly GPL3Feb 12 01:23
brendynwhat made you change opinion?Feb 12 01:23
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] blogged: European Union ⇒ Stop !Acta: Infographic #EU !copyrightFeb 12 01:24
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[stumbles/@stumbles] FTA guest lecturer should fail course for using propaganda terms "intellectual property" and "piracy": !ftaFeb 12 01:26
prurigroDiablo-D3, I'm not good enough at law to know if it'd be acceptable thoughFeb 12 01:28
prurigroI feel like everything can have its wording twistedFeb 12 01:28
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] #Israel teams with terror group to kill #Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News #stateterrorismFeb 12 01:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] poorrichard's blog: #NATO’s Secret War on #Syria #stateterrorismFeb 12 01:33
DaemonFCI still think what the FSF did with bash is disgustingFeb 12 01:41
DaemonFClure people into using non-standard script commands that do the same thing POSIX-compliant script commands could already doFeb 12 01:42
DaemonFCthen when there's millions of scripts out there that need bash, distributors are forced to forego other shells and give their users bashFeb 12 01:42
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Max Keiser: Aproxima-se um holocasuto financeiro enquanto a Alemanha ataca a Grécia - YouTube 12 01:43
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] @Tekk That is one of the ones I have (probably at your suggestion :) Do you know if it creates webM video (i think the thing YouTube uses)Feb 12 01:43
brendynyou think they did that intentionally?Feb 12 01:43
DaemonFCif you're going to extend standards and force people to rely on your software, you're really pulling the same stunt as Microsoft did with IEFeb 12 01:43
DaemonFCI think so, yesFeb 12 01:43
Diablo-D3brendyn: its not that I changed opinionFeb 12 01:44
Diablo-D3I just no longer careFeb 12 01:44
DaemonFCand it forces other shells that were already POSIX compliant to go further and implement bashisms if they want to be compatible with FSF/GNU's bash shellFeb 12 01:44
DaemonFCit's like quirks mode for web browsersFeb 12 01:44
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 01:44
DaemonFCeven if the browser already could render everything to the W3C's specifications, it still needs to go out and implement things from Netscape or Internet Explorer or now, Webkit, to work with all sites the user may potentially want to loadFeb 12 01:45
brendynDiablo-D3: care about what?Feb 12 01:46
DaemonFCthe correct way to extend POSIX shouldn't be to just lob some additional things on top of it and declare to the world "It's there, now have fun trying to keep up!"Feb 12 01:46
Diablo-D3[08:23:11] <Diablo-D3> I used to be strongly pro BSD, but now its flipped, hes strongly BSDite and Im strongly GPL3Feb 12 01:46
Diablo-D3[08:23:41] <brendyn> what made you change opinion?Feb 12 01:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] "Has Liz II Been Cheated Out of an Era?" #royalty #humour #ElizabethIIFeb 12 01:46
DaemonFCthe FSF should have worked with the standards bodies to extend the POSIX definition for shells if they wanted to extend their shellFeb 12 01:46
DaemonFCjust like anyone else shouldFeb 12 01:46
brendynthat doesnt answer anythingFeb 12 01:46
brendynif you dont care, why are you strongly gpl3Feb 12 01:47
prurigroDaemonFC, what would bash do that isn't POSIX compliant?Feb 12 01:47
DaemonFCI don't know the extent of it, try replacing your /bin/sh with something that's not bash and you let me know if your system bootsFeb 12 01:48
DaemonFCUbuntu has a shell script :) called that looks over a script and alerts you if it finds anyFeb 12 01:49
DaemonFC 12 01:50
DaemonFCthere's a couple things that korn shell added that aren't defined by POSIX, but it's sort of defensible in that caseFeb 12 01:51
DaemonFCThey were particularly useful, and non-trivialFeb 12 01:51
DaemonFCThere were a few of themFeb 12 01:51
DaemonFCAT&T did it in UNIX, and the POSIX standard was based on UNIX (but didn't standardize all of it)Feb 12 01:52
DaemonFCin bash's case, the things they added were legionFeb 12 01:52
brendynreckon any proof could be found of it?Feb 12 01:52
DaemonFCthey were mostly things that could already be expressed with POSIX complianceFeb 12 01:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Sadto hear of Whitney Houston's death. She was an amazing talent.Feb 12 01:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] 37 Popular Amazon Survival Preparedness Items - Modern Survival Blog – surviving uncertain times #preppersFeb 12 01:53
DaemonFCand they were done years after POSIX was definedFeb 12 01:53
DaemonFCsome of the bashisms are just aliasing to prevent the user from having to do a lot of typingFeb 12 01:54
DaemonFCthose should really be added to other shells too as long as they are statically defined to something that is actually in POSIXFeb 12 01:55
DaemonFCand a lot of them have beenFeb 12 01:55
DaemonFCbut an example where this is not the case, consider pattern matchingFeb 12 01:56
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[evan/@evan] Oh, Whitney Houston is dead?Feb 12 02:03
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] When will we learn to take care of our artists? #Whitney #Amy #Jimi #Janis #Hank #Billie #Judy #Jim #Marilyn #Elvis #James #TrumanFeb 12 02:03
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] » U.S. Soldier Writes Report on the Disaster in #Afghanistan #usaFeb 12 02:06
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] hear, hear!Feb 12 02:13
cubefc1 Feb 12 02:13
DaemonFCprurigro: One of the things of zsh that I'm enjoying is the typo correctionFeb 12 02:15
DaemonFCsay you type apt-egt or something by mistakeFeb 12 02:15
prurigrooh?Feb 12 02:15
DaemonFCbash says command not foundFeb 12 02:15
DaemonFCzsh asks "Did you mean apt-get?"Feb 12 02:15
prurigrofun!Feb 12 02:15
prurigrowhy is there no extension of zsh to bash compliancy?Feb 12 02:16
DaemonFCand if you answer y or yes, it runs the command with apt-get insteadFeb 12 02:16
prurigrothe only thing really holding me back is the fear of running into issues with my huge repo of scriptsFeb 12 02:16
DaemonFCas far as I know, when it runs as zsh, it is compatible with some bashismsFeb 12 02:16
DaemonFCbut if you run it as sh or ksh from a symlink, it is a korn shellFeb 12 02:17
prurigrowhat about my #!/bin/sh?Feb 12 02:17
DaemonFCbashisms become totally illegal in that modeFeb 12 02:17
prurigrowould that default to bashisms?Feb 12 02:17
DaemonFCit would call whatever you use as shFeb 12 02:17
prurigroahh, sweetFeb 12 02:17
prurigroso I could use both thenFeb 12 02:17
DaemonFCso in this case you'd get zsh pretending to be a korn shellFeb 12 02:17
DaemonFCbut if you specifically ask for zsh, you get zshFeb 12 02:18
prurigroI don't usually go more complex than find commands when I'm not gonna go ahead and scriptFeb 12 02:18
DaemonFCand if you ask for bash, then bash will load, run the script, and exit back out to zshFeb 12 02:18
prurigrocoolFeb 12 02:18
prurigromaybe I will try zsh thenFeb 12 02:18
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[mattl/@mattl] Reason to not use Facebook is largely one of privacy and autonomy. Twitter is one of many places to publish public notices.Feb 12 03:11
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[mattl/@mattl] My goal is to be in control of my publishing. StatusNet does that, and WordPress does that, and Twitter is a place to publish.Feb 12 03:11
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[mattl/@mattl] Feel weird, anxious after a day of fun painting model elves with @baughj and then dinner/drinks with my wife + friends.Feb 12 03:19
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] if #Apple hate anything that "duplicates functionality" what about their stores? PC stores existed before Apple opened themFeb 12 03:29
DaemonFCprurigro: Is there any way to get redistributable-but-nonfree firmware on Parabola that you know of?Feb 12 03:31
DaemonFCI'd like to try that but the idea of not having network or any video acceleration is kind of off puttingFeb 12 03:31
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 03:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] everything #Apple do had an existing industry doing the same thing; their very existence "duplicates functionality" already providedFeb 12 03:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] the other way to look at duplications of functionality, is "competition" or "consumer choice" where people choose what suits them the bestFeb 12 03:33
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @mrsxoke: Now reading : Singer Whitney Houston dies at 48 : 12 03:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] pretty sure #Apple weren't the first online store either; strange way to look at capitalism - 1st to do something takes 100% market by rightFeb 12 03:34
DaemonFC 12 03:35
DaemonFCOf course he doesFeb 12 03:35
DaemonFCas Mono rots and Moonlight is a thing of the pastFeb 12 03:35
DaemonFChe's trying to ensnare iOS and Android developers with it nowFeb 12 03:35
DaemonFCI may have to yank gimp out temporarilyFeb 12 03:37
DaemonFCit's causing some dependency problems right nowFeb 12 03:37
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lxoliva/@lxoliva] Wow! Wando! Whitney! Whatta Week! :-/Feb 12 03:38
DaemonFCI'd like to upgrade to Gimp 2.8 when it comes outFeb 12 03:40
DaemonFCit has a better license and support for some really cool new stuff that would help me out a lotFeb 12 03:40
prurigroDaemonFC, haha, I feel the exact same wayFeb 12 03:45
prurigroabout parabolaFeb 12 03:45
prurigrobut yea, you can definitely just grab arch packagesFeb 12 03:45
prurigrocompile emFeb 12 03:45
prurigroand throw em onFeb 12 03:45
prurigroparabola consists of a package blacklist, and a number of libre alternativesFeb 12 03:45
prurigrobut aside from that, its basically archFeb 12 03:46
DaemonFCthe new OpenCL support in Gimp 2.8 will help me out, at some point in the futureFeb 12 03:54
DaemonFCLinux 3.3 and Mesa 8.1 should have some OpenCL support for Radeon cardsFeb 12 03:54
DaemonFCassisted by the LLVMFeb 12 03:54
prurigroopencl?Feb 12 03:54
DaemonFCgeneral purpose computing for GPUsFeb 12 03:54
DaemonFCOpenCL is a way of doing tasks that would be traditionally done on a CPU, on your GPU insteadFeb 12 03:55
DaemonFCso when Gimp 2.8 is paired with a proper video card driver, it will perform some operations several times fasterFeb 12 03:55
DaemonFCprovided the hardware itself can support OpenCLFeb 12 03:55
DaemonFCit's rare to find anything that was released later than 2006-2007 that couldn't conceivably run applications that try to access it with OpenCLFeb 12 03:56
prurigrooh funFeb 12 03:57
DaemonFCprurigro: AMD opened a huge chunk of their proprietary driver and donated it to help out Gallium3d's OpenCL effortsFeb 12 03:57
prurigronew enough? 12 03:57
DaemonFCrecently, like within the last couple of monthsFeb 12 03:57
DaemonFCit's actually gegl that now has OpenCL supportFeb 12 03:58
DaemonFCso when I say Gimp 2.8 I actually mean the version of gegl that comes with itFeb 12 03:58
DaemonFCMesa development is proceeding faster now than at any other point in its history since at least Intel and AMD see it as a way to properly support their graphics acceleratorsFeb 12 04:00
DaemonFCyou won't ever see Nvidia helping out with itFeb 12 04:01
DaemonFCthey have a "corporate culture" *cringe* that's a lot like MicrosoftFeb 12 04:01
DaemonFCthey'd rather shoot themselves in the foot than do anything that would help free softwareFeb 12 04:01
DaemonFCas a perverse side effect of the nature of free software, code that AMD and Intel donate to Mesa is making Nvidia cards work better with it too even though Nvidia is a very antisocial company that loves blobs and DRM and other fun stuffFeb 12 04:02
DaemonFCI have a feeling that Nvidia secretely wants Nouveau to succeed to a certain extent, but they won't help outFeb 12 04:03
DaemonFCwhy buy the cow when your competitors pay for it and give your customers free milk?Feb 12 04:04
DaemonFC;)Feb 12 04:04
DaemonFCso Nvidia is basically a welfare case in the context of LinuxFeb 12 04:04
DaemonFCthey benefit greatly from Linux and other free software, and give almost nothing to itFeb 12 04:04
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eff/@eff] Across Europe, tens of thousands take to the street to protest #ACTA 12 04:04
prurigrololFeb 12 04:05
prurigrosounds about rightFeb 12 04:05
DaemonFCNouveau users probably won't be able to use OpenCL for a very long time, if everFeb 12 04:05
DaemonFCit's taken the project this long to get the video ports and 3d engines of most Nvidia cards working reliablyFeb 12 04:06
DaemonFCnone of the latest stuff even works at allFeb 12 04:06
DaemonFCNvidia will just chalk up another score for their blob, users of Nvidia that want to run all this neat new stuff that takes advantage of GPGPU will end up running their blobFeb 12 04:07
prurigronouveau didn't give me proper hardware acceleration at allFeb 12 04:07
prurigroand my chipset is pretty oldFeb 12 04:07
DaemonFClooks like Ubuntu just pushed some bad Apparmor packagesFeb 12 04:09
DaemonFCNo apport report written because the error message indicates its a followup error from a previous failure.Feb 12 04:10
DaemonFC                                                                                                          Errors were encountered while processing:Feb 12 04:10
DaemonFC apparmorFeb 12 04:10
DaemonFC man-dbFeb 12 04:10
DaemonFC apparmor-utilsFeb 12 04:10
DaemonFCE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)Feb 12 04:10
DaemonFC█▓▒░ryan@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sat Feb 11 11:09:49pmFeb 12 04:10
DaemonFC/home/ryan> Feb 12 04:10
DaemonFCcoolFeb 12 04:10
prurigrololFeb 12 04:17
prurigrooh dearFeb 12 04:17
DaemonFC 12 04:18
DaemonFCtypicalFeb 12 04:18
DaemonFCfuckFeb 12 04:23
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prurigrololFeb 12 04:26
prurigrowhat to do?Feb 12 04:26
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] #Mickos new hairstyle #nocomment cc: @bkuhnFeb 12 04:29
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] Also: 12 04:29
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] RD: @themadman: Getting carried away programming again. Checking the time, maybe getting some sleep might be healthy.Feb 12 04:31
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DaemonFCok, well, that sucksFeb 12 04:38
DaemonFCI can't use zsh as korn shell as sh or else the scripts in some Debian packages won't execute properlyFeb 12 04:39
DaemonFC(that was too good to actually work)Feb 12 04:39
DaemonFCbut the actual korn shell as sh works fineFeb 12 04:40
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DaemonFC:)Feb 12 04:47
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] Cancer drug discover and The Open Source Way - #fb #inFeb 12 04:48
DaemonFCwhen zsh is called as sh the init script responsible for mounting file systems can't mount tmp properlyFeb 12 04:48
DaemonFCcould I report a bug? sureFeb 12 04:49
DaemonFCwould Ubuntu care? unlikelyFeb 12 04:49
DaemonFCit could even be a bug in zshFeb 12 04:50
DaemonFCksh93 seems to run all my init scripts fineFeb 12 04:51
DaemonFCbut, I linked it back to dash since that's the only configuration Ubuntu will test these against and I don't want more surprisesFeb 12 04:51
prurigrodon't we have an ubuntu representative in the room?Feb 12 04:52
prurigrolike, not now, but occasionally?Feb 12 04:52
DaemonFCyeah, he's their community managerFeb 12 04:53
DaemonFCso now I'm back to dash as sh, but my login shell is zsh as zshFeb 12 04:53
DaemonFCweeeFeb 12 04:53
DaemonFCthey all implement the standards, pick oneFeb 12 04:54
DaemonFCpick a shell, they saidFeb 12 04:54
DaemonFCthey all support POSIX Shell, they saidFeb 12 04:55
DaemonFCit'll be fun they saidFeb 12 04:55
prurigrololFeb 12 04:57
prurigroand that's when it all started going downhillFeb 12 04:57
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] RT @eff Across Europe, tens of thousands take to the street to protest #ACTA 12 04:59
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DaemonFCoh wellFeb 12 05:01
DaemonFCat least I get to use my precious as my login shellFeb 12 05:01
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 05:01
prurigrohahaFeb 12 05:02
prurigrowhat else can it do better?Feb 12 05:02
DaemonFCthey split the features into severl different man pagesFeb 12 05:03
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DaemonFCbecause it is too extensive to fit on oneFeb 12 05:03
DaemonFCso I'm more or less learning as I goFeb 12 05:03
prurigroahh hmmFeb 12 05:03
prurigroas jam packed as something like tmux I guess?Feb 12 05:03
DaemonFCso far I managed to set a themeFeb 12 05:04
DaemonFCto make it produce text output with all kinds of fun colorsFeb 12 05:04
DaemonFCand to spell check and auto complete things for meFeb 12 05:04
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DaemonFCI might need to change root's login shell too and set a zshrc for rootFeb 12 05:05
DaemonFCI changed root's login shell to zsh4Feb 12 05:08
DaemonFCand copied my zshrc to /root/.zshrcFeb 12 05:08
DaemonFCand now root has the same preferences I do and using sudo doesn't run the command as root in bashFeb 12 05:09
DaemonFCsuperFeb 12 05:09
prurigrooh word, would it normally?Feb 12 05:09
DaemonFC█▓▒░ryan@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sun Feb 12 12:09:57amFeb 12 05:10
DaemonFC/home/ryan> sudo -i      Feb 12 05:10
DaemonFC█▓▒░root@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sun Feb 12 12:09:58amFeb 12 05:10
DaemonFC/root> su -l ryanFeb 12 05:10
DaemonFC█▓▒░ryan@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sun Feb 12 12:10:00amFeb 12 05:10
DaemonFC/home/ryan> Feb 12 05:10
DaemonFCthere, consistent behaviorFeb 12 05:10
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Perhaps; still, why should so many who hold the world in their hands end in tragedy? What's wrong with this picture?Feb 12 05:13
DaemonFCprurigro: Feb 12 05:14
DaemonFC█▓▒░ryan@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sun Feb 12 12:12:54amFeb 12 05:15
DaemonFC/home/ryan> nnaoFeb 12 05:15
DaemonFCzsh: correct 'nnao' to 'nano' [nyae]? Feb 12 05:15
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 05:15
prurigrololFeb 12 05:15
prurigroexcept that should be vvim ;)Feb 12 05:15
DaemonFC█▓▒░ryan@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sun Feb 12 12:14:58amFeb 12 05:15
DaemonFC/home/ryan> moarFeb 12 05:15
DaemonFCzsh: correct 'moar' to 'more' [nyae]? Feb 12 05:15
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 05:15
DaemonFCand you can have it automatically correct that misspelling tooFeb 12 05:16
DaemonFCso every time I say moar it runs the command more without asking meFeb 12 05:16
DaemonFCif I tell it to autocorrect Feb 12 05:16
prurigrooh wordFeb 12 05:17
prurigrothat could get you lazy tho hahaFeb 12 05:17
DaemonFC 12 05:18
DaemonFClike fsck, it tries to correct thatFeb 12 05:20
DaemonFCso in .zshrc I can useFeb 12 05:20
DaemonFCalias fsck="nocorrect fsck"Feb 12 05:20
prurigrohahaFeb 12 05:24
prurigrothat could get dangerous :)Feb 12 05:24
DaemonFCprurigro: it's off by defaultFeb 12 05:25
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 05:25
DaemonFCif you tell it no, it will send the command you typedFeb 12 05:25
DaemonFCI was reading some stuff written by David Korn earlierFeb 12 05:25
DaemonFCit turns out he pwned a Microsoft representative at USENIX back in 2000Feb 12 05:26
DaemonFCMicrosoft was there to pimp out their "Services For UNIX" layer for Windows and claimed they had a real Korn shell in it, and he managed to interject and mention that it was not the real korn shellFeb 12 05:27
DaemonFCand the Microsoft representative didn't recognize that he was David KornFeb 12 05:27
DaemonFCand proceeded to argue with him that it was a real korn shellFeb 12 05:27
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 05:27
DaemonFC 12 05:30
prurigrohahaFeb 12 05:30
prurigrothat's pretty funnyFeb 12 05:30
DaemonFC"There are two different areas of functionality in shells. First is interactive use and the second is scripting. Much of the debate about shells has focused on interactive use only. For example, tcsh is an acceptable shell for interactive use but practically unusable for scripting."Feb 12 05:31
prurigrocomputer celebrities don't typically get as much of their face into the masses do theyFeb 12 05:31
DaemonFCOS X used to ship with tcshFeb 12 05:31
DaemonFCprurigro: He produced a book on the Korn Shell, and got one signed by all the members of the band KoRn Feb 12 05:32
DaemonFChe walks around in KoRn t-shirts a lotFeb 12 05:32
prurigrohahaFeb 12 05:32
prurigrowas that his original last name?Feb 12 05:32
DaemonFCyesFeb 12 05:32
DaemonFCKorn is his last nameFeb 12 05:33
DaemonFCso he thinks it's funny to walk around in KoRn (the band) t-shirtsFeb 12 05:33
DaemonFCprurigro: I've ran into some fairly annoying bugs that were introduced into Amarok 2.5Feb 12 05:34
DaemonFCthat's why I have been using Clementine more recentlyFeb 12 05:35
prurigroclementine is just better too, imhoFeb 12 05:35
prurigroprojectmFeb 12 05:35
prurigroaloneFeb 12 05:35
prurigrois enough reason to use itFeb 12 05:35
prurigrobut the old ui was so much better (amarok's)Feb 12 05:35
DaemonFCspecifically, the "lyrics" window in Amarok has a nasty habit of not filling the entire info pane and forms this tiny non-resizable box insteadFeb 12 05:35
DaemonFCand then the Wikipedia info pane sometimes causes Amarok to just crash nowFeb 12 05:36
DaemonFCand it has done this to me on Fedora tooFeb 12 05:36
DaemonFCAmarok's transcoder is based on ffmpegFeb 12 05:36
DaemonFCthere's another strike against AmarokFeb 12 05:36
DaemonFCnot all distros can even package ffmpegFeb 12 05:36
DaemonFCso if that's the case, the transcoder won't work at allFeb 12 05:36
DaemonFCClementine can transcode between any format you have a Gstreamer plug-in forFeb 12 05:37
DaemonFCthen there's a new plug-in that encourages users to buy MP3s and fund Amazon, the MAFIAA, and the Thomson/Technicolor patent troll all at the same timeFeb 12 05:38
DaemonFCand isn't even available to more than half the countries in the worldFeb 12 05:38
prurigrooh manFeb 12 05:39
prurigrospeaking of that actuallyFeb 12 05:39
prurigroare the store plugins all modules for clementine too?Feb 12 05:39
prurigroI haven't bothered checking yetFeb 12 05:39
DaemonFCit has a Magnatune plug inFeb 12 05:40
DaemonFCsorry, I should have mentioned that obnoxious MP3 store plug-in is in AmarokFeb 12 05:41
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] I will never use the term #nerdgasm ever .... well ever again ... but you know what it is and you know when it happensFeb 12 05:41
DaemonFCnot Clementine (yet anyway, but how far away could it be now that they support a Spotify blob?)Feb 12 05:41
DaemonFCI think the referral codes from media players that support the Amazon MP3 store gets them like 1% of whatever the user spends on MP3s thereFeb 12 05:42
DaemonFCso apparently assisting patent trolls, the MAFIAA, and Amazon is worth a 1% revenue share to AmarokFeb 12 05:42
DaemonFCnothing you do will make the MAFIAA changeFeb 12 05:44
DaemonFCif you don't buy anything from them, they'll say the loss in sales was due to piracyFeb 12 05:44
prurigroyupFeb 12 05:44
DaemonFCif you buy more stuff from them, they'll say that their anti-piracy campaign must be workingFeb 12 05:44
prurigroI pay for lots of musicFeb 12 05:44
DaemonFC:PFeb 12 05:44
prurigronone of it theirsFeb 12 05:44
prurigroso clearly I'm a dirty pirateFeb 12 05:44
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Thanks, I will check it out. :)Feb 12 05:44
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] !Tzag Idenizens.Feb 12 05:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] The story about a footballer refusing a handshake still seems to be the most important story in Britain.Feb 12 05:48
DaemonFChmmm, Korn calls bash an "antique"Feb 12 05:50
DaemonFClolFeb 12 05:50
prurigrololFeb 12 05:50
prurigroI also question why the ba in bash stands for 'born again'Feb 12 05:51
DaemonFCbourne againFeb 12 05:51
DaemonFCit's a pun on the old bourne shellFeb 12 05:51
prurigroerr bourneFeb 12 05:51
prurigrothat's it?Feb 12 05:51
prurigrono religious contexts?Feb 12 05:52
DaemonFCnoFeb 12 05:52
prurigrothat makes me happy :)Feb 12 05:59
DaemonFCAT&T makes you sign the Eclipse Public License to download any source from themFeb 12 05:59
DaemonFCeven stuff that's not released under that licenseFeb 12 05:59
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prurigrodurr, really?Feb 12 06:01
prurigrowhy?Feb 12 06:01
DaemonFCI don't knowFeb 12 06:02
DaemonFCit's stupidFeb 12 06:02
DaemonFCone person can sign it, then mirror everything somewhere elseFeb 12 06:02
prurigrololFeb 12 06:03
DaemonFCand nobody else has to sign the stupid thingFeb 12 06:03
prurigroso they have no idea what they're doingFeb 12 06:03
prurigrobasicallyFeb 12 06:03
prurigro?Feb 12 06:03
DaemonFCthey say you have to sign that license because many of their packages use that licenseFeb 12 06:03
DaemonFCalright, what if I want something that's not under that license?Feb 12 06:03
DaemonFClike, the korn shellFeb 12 06:03
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 06:03
prurigrois korn at&t?Feb 12 06:04
DaemonFCksh88 was done by David Korn while he was working as an AT&T employeeFeb 12 06:04
DaemonFCand ksh93 as wellFeb 12 06:04
DaemonFCfor many years they were proprietaryFeb 12 06:04
DaemonFCthen AT&T agreed to release them under the Common Public LicenseFeb 12 06:05
DaemonFC 12 06:06
DaemonFCso they've been under this license since around 2000Feb 12 06:06
DaemonFCIf Recipient institutes patent litigation against a Contributor with respect to a patent applicable to software (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit), then any patent licenses granted by that Contributor to such Recipient under this Agreement shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed. In addition, if Recipient institutes patent litigation against any entity (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) Feb 12 06:08
DaemonFCalleging that the Program itself (excluding combinations of the Program with other software or hardware) infringes such Recipient's patent(s), then such Recipient's rights granted under Section 2(b) shall terminate as of the date such litigation is filed.Feb 12 06:08
DaemonFCoh niceFeb 12 06:08
DaemonFCso if a contributor makes a code contribution and patent grant, then decides to sue you over the patent in question, you immediately lose the patent grant they gave you Feb 12 06:09
DaemonFCany disputes for the code under this license have to be filed in a court in the state of New YorkFeb 12 06:11
DaemonFC and each party has to waive their right to a jury and have a judge or arbitrator hear the caseFeb 12 06:11
DaemonFCyuckFeb 12 06:11
DaemonFChmmmFeb 12 06:13
DaemonFCprurigro: zsh is in Main in UbuntuFeb 12 06:13
DaemonFCCanonical provides critical updates for zsh until February 2017.Feb 12 06:14
DaemonFCand use of zsh in Ubuntu is covered under Canonical's paid support contractsFeb 12 06:14
DaemonFCyou can file a supprot ticket with them on itFeb 12 06:14
DaemonFC*supportFeb 12 06:14
DaemonFCinterestingFeb 12 06:14
DaemonFCI wonder why they moved it to MainFeb 12 06:14
DaemonFCI remember it being in UniverseFeb 12 06:15
prurigrohmmFeb 12 06:18
prurigroso they provide bash by default, but fully support znh?Feb 12 06:18
prurigrozsh*?Feb 12 06:18
DaemonFCyesFeb 12 06:19
DaemonFCthey let you open paid support incidents on zshFeb 12 06:19
DaemonFCand they will update it through 2017 in 12.04 ltsFeb 12 06:19
DaemonFCto fix bugs and security problems anywayFeb 12 06:20
DaemonFCthere's only a few things in the entire distribution that they make exceptions for, for major releasesFeb 12 06:20
DaemonFCone of them is Firefox, and I really disagree with thatFeb 12 06:21
DaemonFCin an LTS, they should be following Firefox ESR, not the rapid release versionsFeb 12 06:21
DaemonFCwhen you follow rapid releases like that, you have the potential to pull in a new, barely tested Firefox release in which thousands of lines of code has been added, changed, or removedFeb 12 06:22
DaemonFCand it might have some embarrassing bugsFeb 12 06:22
DaemonFCFirefox 7.0 was eating peoples extensions for exampleFeb 12 06:22
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 06:22
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Good morning by the way !tzagFeb 12 06:23
DaemonFCso I think enterprise customers are going to end up trying to use Mozilla's official ESR binaries which are fucked in the same exact ways that all official Mozilla binaries areFeb 12 06:23
DaemonFCand then they'll find out pretty quickly what kind of problems that Mozilla's binaries bring inFeb 12 06:23
DaemonFCand that Canonical won't support it since it didn't come from themFeb 12 06:24
DaemonFCMozilla is really pretty obnoxious and unfriendly to Linux distributions that aren't willing to lap up anything Mozilla puts out, on Mozilla's termsFeb 12 06:24
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] RT @x11r5 jajajajaaja yo también es interesante. :PFeb 12 06:24
DaemonFCit's why a lot of distributions that are sick of dealing with Mozilla's legal department give up and ship Mozilla software minus the brandingFeb 12 06:25
DaemonFCfrankly I think that if the don't cut that shit out, then most distros are going to start shipping Chromium insteadFeb 12 06:25
DaemonFCGoogle doesn't really care what you do to itFeb 12 06:25
DaemonFCyou still get to call it ChromiumFeb 12 06:26
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Why @x11r5, you have a remarkably fine singing voice.Feb 12 06:26
DaemonFCMozilla's hostility towards Debian has led Debian to maintaining a rolling fork of Mozilla's softwareFeb 12 06:26
DaemonFCthat's not newsFeb 12 06:26
DaemonFCwhat comes as a surprise to most people is that Mozilla lets Red Hat do pretty much whatever they want and keep calling it Mozilla FirefoxFeb 12 06:27
DaemonFCand that Ubuntu is carrying all the patches from Debian IceWeasel and some of their own and get to call it FirefoxFeb 12 06:27
DaemonFCso the Mozilla/Debian incident is a clear case of Mozilla bullying DebianFeb 12 06:27
prurigrohmmFeb 12 06:28
DaemonFCI'm just using Opera full time until the Chromium repositories start building again or Ubuntu rolls Chromium 17Feb 12 06:29
prurigrothe idea of a distro 'shipping' certain applications is so foreign to meFeb 12 06:29
prurigro:)Feb 12 06:29
DaemonFCI am sick of Mozilla's shitFeb 12 06:29
prurigroubuntu doesn'thave chromium 17 yet?Feb 12 06:29
DaemonFCI mentioned a fairly annoying, obvious bug in #firefox on irc.mozilla.orgFeb 12 06:29
DaemonFCand  they responded by kicking me from the roomFeb 12 06:29
DaemonFCand telling me not to mention their bugs in thereFeb 12 06:29
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] I wouldn't mind green beans except that they seem to squeak against my teeth.Feb 12 06:29
DaemonFCthe bug is a security issueFeb 12 06:30
DaemonFCand has been like this since at least Firefox 7Feb 12 06:30
DaemonFCand it affects Seamonkey from around 2.3 to currentFeb 12 06:30
DaemonFCthey're not fixing itFeb 12 06:30
DaemonFCit's trivial to exploitFeb 12 06:30
DaemonFCwhen it causes a crash, it could lead to memory corruption and running arbitrary codeFeb 12 06:31
DaemonFCit affects EVERY platform they run onFeb 12 06:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] !tzag and good morning to you too, @vk7hse Though technically morning here, it is still dead dark, and will be for another 6 hours or so :)Feb 12 06:31
DaemonFCand Intel has released new Windows drivers for their GPU to hack around this Mozilla bugFeb 12 06:31
DaemonFCprurigro: Ubuntu is providing Chromium 16 in 12.04 right nowFeb 12 06:32
DaemonFCI need at least 17Feb 12 06:32
DaemonFC17 adds one MAJOR new feature that I really really really needFeb 12 06:32
DaemonFCand one minor enhancement that makes it more pleasant to use in KDEFeb 12 06:32
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 06:32
DaemonFCthe major feature is that the webrequest API has been enhanced and moved out of the Experimental API batchFeb 12 06:33
DaemonFCso ad blockers now work 100% correctlyFeb 12 06:33
DaemonFC(at least Chrome Adblock does, I'm not sure what Adblock Plus is doing and I don't care)Feb 12 06:33
DaemonFCand the minor enhancement is that it detects that it's running under KDE and uses KDE file dialogsFeb 12 06:34
DaemonFCso Chromium 17 is the minimum version I would use as a daily browserFeb 12 06:34
DaemonFCwithout full support for ad blocking, the web becomes practically unusable Feb 12 06:34
DaemonFCthe KDE file dialogs are just nice to haveFeb 12 06:35
DaemonFCif Chromium 16 supported the Web Request API by default and to the extent 17 does, I'd already be using itFeb 12 06:35
DaemonFCbut it doesn't :)Feb 12 06:35
prurigroDaemonFC, yea, it feels like months since I've bene using 17Feb 12 06:36
prurigroisn't there a build floating around?Feb 12 06:36
DaemonFCalso, Chromium/Chrome and Opera are the only browsers that support OpenGL, OpenGL ES, and WebGL properly and in total on LinuxFeb 12 06:36
DaemonFCFirefox uses xrender and simply crashes on common WebGL codeFeb 12 06:37
DaemonFCMapsGL does it consistentlyFeb 12 06:37
DaemonFCin fact, that was the issue I tried telling them aboutFeb 12 06:37
DaemonFCprurigro: I feel more comfortable using Opera than Google ChromeFeb 12 06:38
DaemonFCOpera's license has some rather unfortunate terms in it, but Chrome's current license is worseFeb 12 06:38
DaemonFCI will not agree to Chrome's licenseFeb 12 06:38
prurigroyea, firefox's webgl support was disappointing to say the leastFeb 12 06:40
prurigroand waitFeb 12 06:40
prurigrochrome's license?Feb 12 06:40
prurigroor chromium?Feb 12 06:40
prurigroor both?Feb 12 06:40
DaemonFC 12 06:41
DaemonFCChrome, Google Chrome, the nonfree browser based on ChromiumFeb 12 06:41
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] Time for a brew.Feb 12 06:41
DaemonFC16. AdvertisementsFeb 12 06:42
DaemonFC16.1 Some of the Services are supported by advertising revenue and may display advertisements and promotions. These advertisements may be targeted to the content of information stored on the Services, queries made through the Services or other information.Feb 12 06:42
DaemonFC16.2 The manner, mode and extent of advertising by Google on the Services are subject to change without specific notice to you.Feb 12 06:42
DaemonFC16.3 In consideration for Google granting you access to and use of the Services, you agree that Google may place such advertising on the Services.Feb 12 06:42
DaemonFCso, installing ad blockers is really a violation of Chrome's EULAFeb 12 06:42
DaemonFCthey ignore it because kicking out ad blockers from the Chrome extension site would cause a revolt and have people running back to FirefoxFeb 12 06:43
scientescan i do serial port with only two wires?Feb 12 06:43
prurigrohmmFeb 12 06:43
prurigrointerestingFeb 12 06:43
scientesI am trying to sanity test my setup by hooking a usb-to-serial converter in loopback with my serial portFeb 12 06:43
DaemonFC"20.2 From time to time, Google Chrome may check with remote servers (hosted by Google or by third parties) for available updates to extensions, including but not limited to bug fixes or enhanced functionality. You agree that such updates will be automatically requested, downloaded, and installed without further notice to you."Feb 12 06:43
prurigrowell I'm glad I wouldn't touch that spyware-addled pos with a 10ft pole then :)Feb 12 06:43
DaemonFCyou can't refuse an updateFeb 12 06:43
scientesI did get alot of success the other day sending GPS over 2-wire serialFeb 12 06:43
DaemonFCit's against their EULAFeb 12 06:44
scienteswhich was pretty excitingFeb 12 06:44
DaemonFC"20.3 From time to time, Google may discover an extension that violates Google developer terms or other legal agreements, laws, regulations or policies. Google Chrome will periodically download a list of such extensions from Google’s servers. You agree that Google may remotely disable or remove any such extension from user systems in its sole discretion."Feb 12 06:44
prurigroscientes, oh sweet :)Feb 12 06:44
DaemonFCyou agree that Google can remove extensions from YOUR COPY OF CHROME which you ALREADY HAVE INSTALLEDFeb 12 06:44
scientesprurigro, yeah, the AIS reciever told me where I was, with the GPS--> computer (gpsd)--> /dev/ttyUSB1 --> AISFeb 12 06:44
DaemonFCit doesn't end with them removing it from their site, they can remove it from your computer as wellFeb 12 06:44
scientes /AIS/AIS reciever/Feb 12 06:44
DaemonFCthen there's more stuff like....Feb 12 06:45
scientesnow i need to replicated that (#1), and then set up a second channel sending the AIS data, that you only get when GPS is working, back to the computerFeb 12 06:45
DaemonFC(c) The Chrome-Reader Software may not be used to render any PDF or EPUB documents that utilize digital rights management protocols or systems other than Adobe DRM.Feb 12 06:45
prurigroDaemonFC, sounds like the apple kill switchFeb 12 06:45
DaemonFC(d) Adobe DRM must be enabled in the Chrome-Reader Software for all Adobe DRM protected PDF and EPUB documents.Feb 12 06:45
scientesbut i want to do i one step at a time, 1st step: making sure I am using the right serial port (S0, S1, etcFeb 12 06:45
DaemonFC(e) The Chrome-Reader Software may not, other than as explicitly permitted by the technical specifications, disable any capabilities provided by Adobe in the Adobe Software, including but not limited to, support for PDF and EPUB formats and Adobe DRM.Feb 12 06:45
prurigroscientes, sweet!Feb 12 06:46
DaemonFCso you agree not to try to disable  DRM in documents you view in ChromeFeb 12 06:46
DaemonFC4. Opensource. Sublicensee will not directly or indirectly grant, or purport to grant, to any third party any rights or immunities under Adobe’s intellectual property or proprietary rights that will subject such intellectual property to an open source license or scheme in which there is or could be interpreted to be a requirement that as a condition of use, modification and/or distribution, the Adobe Software be: (i) disclosed or Feb 12 06:46
DaemonFCdistributed in source code form; (ii) licensed for the purpose of making derivative works; or (iii) redistributable at no charge. For clarification purposes, the foregoing restriction does not preclude Sublicensee from distributing, and Sublicensee will distribute the Adobe Software as bundled with the Google Software, without charge.Feb 12 06:46
prurigroscientes, have any plans for it after you  get things working nicely?Feb 12 06:46
DaemonFCthere's some anti-free software language from AdobeFeb 12 06:46
prurigroscientes, and what did you use for your connector?Feb 12 06:46
scientesprurigro, put it on a boat, of courseFeb 12 06:46
DaemonFCyou get some more legalize which means you agree that MPEG-LA's claims on their patents are legitimateFeb 12 06:47
prurigroDaemonFC, hmm, so I guess that doesn't come with chromium?Feb 12 06:47
DaemonFCnopeFeb 12 06:47
DaemonFCit's under a collection of permissive free/open source software licenseFeb 12 06:47
DaemonFCand that's where it endsFeb 12 06:47
prurigroits funny, I hadn't realized chromium wasn't just the google OS at firstFeb 12 06:47
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 06:47
prurigroand installed chromeFeb 12 06:47
prurigrowhen it first came outFeb 12 06:48
prurigroonly found out about chromium after when chrome would crash constantlyFeb 12 06:48
DaemonFCwell, it has a few LGPL componentsFeb 12 06:48
scientesno it doesn'tFeb 12 06:48
DaemonFClike the stuff in Webkit that's a derivative work of KHTML and KJSFeb 12 06:48
scienteschromium is all BSD and MPL IIRCFeb 12 06:48
DaemonFCnoFeb 12 06:48
DaemonFCthat would be illegalFeb 12 06:48
DaemonFCyou can't take code under the LGPL and declare it's under a BSD licenseFeb 12 06:48
DaemonFCthat's not how copyright works ;)Feb 12 06:49
scienteswebkit is LGPL? I don't believe so--unless they inherited it from KHTML i guessFeb 12 06:49
scientesthe license that isFeb 12 06:49
DaemonFCthe Webcore and Javascriptcore components are under the LGPLFeb 12 06:49
DaemonFCthe Webkit wrapper is under a BSD licenseFeb 12 06:49
scientescause apple hates the GPLFeb 12 06:49
scientesthey would never license their stuff under the GPL, even if they owned the codeFeb 12 06:49
DaemonFCWebcore and Javascriptcore are derivative works of KHTML and KJSFeb 12 06:49
scientesyeah, gotchaFeb 12 06:50
DaemonFCat the time of the fork, they were under the LGPL 2.1Feb 12 06:50
scientesand they still areFeb 12 06:50
scientesas apple is Very, Very allergic to GPL 3Feb 12 06:50
DaemonFCwell, you could exercise your rights under the LGPL to convert your copy to the GPLFeb 12 06:51
DaemonFCeitehr version 2 or 3Feb 12 06:51
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 06:51
scientesDaemonFC, so they are keeping it (or any later version)Feb 12 06:51
DaemonFCLGPL 2.1 section 3 statesFeb 12 06:51
DaemonFC3. You may opt to apply the terms of the ordinary GNU General Public License instead of this License to a given copy of the Library. To do this, you must alter all the notices that refer to this License, so that they refer to the ordinary GNU General Public License, version 2, instead of to this License. (If a newer version than version 2 of the ordinary GNU General Public License has appeared, then you can specify that version instead if you Feb 12 06:51
DaemonFCwish.) Do not make any other change in these notices. Feb 12 06:51
DaemonFC Once this change is made in a given copy, it is irreversible for that copy, so the ordinary GNU General Public License applies to all subsequent copies and derivative works made from that copy.Feb 12 06:51
scientesDaemonFC, WUTFeb 12 06:52
DaemonFCso you could take Webcore and Javascriptcore code and relicense them under the GPL 2 or 3Feb 12 06:52
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 06:52
scientesthe GPL2 isn't like that Feb 12 06:52
scientesand LGPL 2.1 is just GPL2 + a specific exceptionFeb 12 06:52
DaemonFCany recipient of code under the LGPL has the option to convert their copy of the code to the GPLFeb 12 06:52
scientesthat only applies, if the copyright owner said "or any later version"Feb 12 06:52
DaemonFCin LGPL 3, you can only convert it to GPL 3Feb 12 06:53
scientesanyways, troling, trolling, trollingFeb 12 06:53
DaemonFCif you did that, then the Webkit project wouldn't take any of your patchesFeb 12 06:54
DaemonFCthe last thing their corporate sponsors want is to carry around something that large under the terms of the GPL 3Feb 12 06:54
scientesof courseFeb 12 06:54
scientesof course of course of courseFeb 12 06:54
scientesyou need to troll lessFeb 12 06:54
scientesand write more code insteadFeb 12 06:54
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] rd @BenWest "NPost: !Canada ’s expanding surveillance ‘should scare you’: privacy watchdog" !CDNpoli #lawfulaccessFeb 12 06:54
DaemonFCit seems like the GPL 3 is worth using even if the only thing it accomplishes is to keep Apple awayFeb 12 06:55
*scientes thinks those are words he needs to head for himselfFeb 12 06:55
scientesDaemonFC, I want to ask you a questionFeb 12 06:55
scientesDo you ever get into arguments with strangers just for the sake of getting into an argument?Feb 12 06:55
DaemonFCnopeFeb 12 06:55
DaemonFCit just happensFeb 12 06:55
DaemonFC:DFeb 12 06:56
scientesjust try your best to get into someones head?Feb 12 06:56
prurigrowait, yea, scientes- aside form DaemonFC vs Diablo-D3, why do you always think DaemonFC is trolling?Feb 12 06:56
prurigrofrom*Feb 12 06:56
scientescause, just from experience, its not really that interesting to do over the internetFeb 12 06:56
scientescause you don't see emotion the same wayFeb 12 06:56
DaemonFCI've considered starting an Ubuntu PPA to upload all the custom packages I build for myselfFeb 12 06:57
DaemonFCbut I haven't quite been able to bring myself to sign their Code of ConductFeb 12 06:57
DaemonFCit seems that if I'm going to go to the trouble to build so much software for myself, then I should probably try to find a way to share it with othersFeb 12 06:58
prurigrome and DaemonFC chat fairly regularly, and we have disagreements on opinion-related stuff, but his style is usually to presents evidence supporting his claim, and attempting to debate any you presentFeb 12 06:58
DaemonFCI wonder if there's another way to go about setting up a package repository that wouldn't eat into my wallet for hosting costs, etc.Feb 12 06:58
scientes  when he first came into this channel he would get kcikbanned all the timeFeb 12 06:59
scientesfor saying really racist stuffFeb 12 06:59
prurigroDaemonFC, if you're not going too popular as a whole, you could use a vpsFeb 12 06:59
scientesDaemonFC, why not just use OpenSuSe build service?Feb 12 07:00
scientesthats a really hot serviceFeb 12 07:00
DaemonFCwell, if you take it in context you'll see that I'm not a racist, normally I use those terms to compare homophobia with racismFeb 12 07:00
prurigroscientes, really? I've never seen racist stuff coming from DaemonFC?Feb 12 07:00
scientesor github or gitorious for open source code hostingFeb 12 07:00
DaemonFCbut people don't take it that way I guess, so I should cut it outFeb 12 07:00
scientesprurigro, he doesn't do it anymoreFeb 12 07:00
prurigroDaemonFC, are you racist?Feb 12 07:01
DaemonFCnoFeb 12 07:01
prurigroculturalist? :)Feb 12 07:01
prurigroI made that word up because I am :)Feb 12 07:01
DaemonFCI think almost everyone is that, to some extentFeb 12 07:01
DaemonFCeven as they accuse othersFeb 12 07:01
scientesprurigro, if you are really interested you could always search to logs for the moments he got kickedFeb 12 07:01
scientesthis channel is loggedFeb 12 07:01
prurigroscientes, well I don't doubt what you say is true-- I'm just curious why you say he is now, since he seems to have changed if he was like thatFeb 12 07:02
scientesAnd I have too, its been a long timeFeb 12 07:02
prurigroDaemonFC, how come you made racist comments?Feb 12 07:02
prurigroI'm sure there's an explanationFeb 12 07:02
prurigrolike in hindsightFeb 12 07:02
scientesI was just recalling that DaemonFC has been one of our most dramatic charactersFeb 12 07:02
DaemonFCsame reason lawyers do it sometimes to make an impression on a juryFeb 12 07:03
scientesthere was also a persistant trollFeb 12 07:03
scientes"fewa"Feb 12 07:03
DaemonFCfewt is one of those Linsux/omgcheesecake peopleFeb 12 07:03
prurigroDaemonFC, hmm, so completely abstract then eh?Feb 12 07:03
DaemonFCyeahFeb 12 07:03
scientesand also HAl, who shilled for MS on wikipedia, and I went through a great deal of effort to get bannedFeb 12 07:03
prurigroand haha- desu trolled like onceFeb 12 07:03
scientesMS did alot of OOXML stuff on wikipediaFeb 12 07:04
prurigrohe/she's also connected via proxy maskFeb 12 07:04
DaemonFCit gets attention from people "Oh, so you don't care that my client got picked on because he's gay. Are there any spics here? Niggers? Chinks? Gooks? Greasers? Kikes?"Feb 12 07:04
DaemonFCit makes people stop and thinkFeb 12 07:04
DaemonFCgets them madFeb 12 07:04
prurigroscientes, I think dramatic can mean drama queen, or it can mean passionateFeb 12 07:04
prurigrothe internet makes reading people difficult, but I get the latter from DaemonFC Feb 12 07:05
DaemonFC"I bet that made you so mad. So mad that you stopped thinking rationally for a moment."Feb 12 07:05
prurigrosame with Diablo-D3Feb 12 07:05
prurigroDaemonFC, hmm, yea, sometimes anger screws over the debate though-- the other person leaves or stops using logicFeb 12 07:06
Diablo-D3fucking republicansFeb 12 07:07
DaemonFCindeedFeb 12 07:07
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 07:07
DaemonFCRepublicans fucking, people of the same sex, in an airport stall evenFeb 12 07:07
DaemonFCB-)Feb 12 07:07
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @JeroenDeDauw what? You still use SVN?Feb 12 07:08
DaemonFC!google Larry Craig indecencyFeb 12 07:08
DaemonFCoh right, the bot is not hereFeb 12 07:08
DaemonFC 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] rd @min reyes Federal government privacy breaches hit record number last year: report !CDNpoli !privacy !c11Feb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @JeroenDeDauw instead of protesting ACTA today I would have protested against subversion if I were you. Really. ;)Feb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @hannesvdvreken 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: RT @marcvandaele: Hoe begin je aan Open Data: misschien wel met dit boekje. #opendata #gis //via @Katle http://ur1. ...Feb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @t1mdp Wil dat ook wel nog eens doen. Gewoon om te bewijzen dat het niet alleen voor hipsters is. Ofzoiets.Feb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: - #opendata in Belgium is more alive than ever - Just launched: the open data forum /cc @OKFNFeb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: RT @Rafke: Spotlight on OKFN Belgium #okfnbe #okfn_be #OpenDataForum @V_ICT_OR @vanherno @eddyvdsFeb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: RT @pudo: 10000 at #acta demo in Berlin; #nerdsinthesnow 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: . @NeelieKroesEU The ACTA protest in Berlin is not only about ACTA, it's about all extremist ©-enforce http://ur1.c ...Feb 12 07:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @t1mdp als het kwik de streep van 10°C haalt, gaat hij er even af #hetismaardatjehetweetFeb 12 07:09
prurigroDiablo-D3, haha, yea- republicans literally ruined anything good that could have been 'right wing'Feb 12 07:10
prurigroI almost feel like there should be two elections in the USFeb 12 07:10
prurigroone for each partyFeb 12 07:10
prurigrolike the primariesFeb 12 07:11
prurigrobut whoever wins is the co-presidentFeb 12 07:11
prurigroone for business-related stuff, and one for social-related stuffFeb 12 07:11
prurigroand they could infight all they wanted-- but it'd destroy the whole point of FOX making everyone dumb so their party could get in, and all that pretending to be religious crap to get the christian voteFeb 12 07:11
prurigroand you'd have people in power for the interests of both business and peopleFeb 12 07:12
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] !Canada ... URGENT: Canadian DMCA To Become Law ⇒speak out on Bill C-11 !CDNpoli !C11 !copyrightFeb 12 07:13
DaemonFChmmmFeb 12 07:13
DaemonFCI wonder if I could get Clementine kicked out of Ubuntu's PPA system over SpotifyFeb 12 07:13
prurigroor maybe a new version added w/oFeb 12 07:13
prurigro?Feb 12 07:14
DaemonFCwhat are their policies on hosting nonfree software in a PPA?Feb 12 07:14
DaemonFCis it allowed?Feb 12 07:14
DaemonFCprurigro: It would be nice if they booted the version with the spotify blob and told the guy he could come back when he would upload a version without itFeb 12 07:15
prurigrooh  hmmFeb 12 07:16
prurigrolike an official 'free clementine'Feb 12 07:16
DaemonFCyeah, bootstrapping nonfree software by sneaking it in with free software is not rightFeb 12 07:18
prurigroyea definitelyFeb 12 07:19
prurigrofully agreedFeb 12 07:19
prurigroI'm all for tweaking your own business model, but don't confuse people when they've made a decision and think they know what they're gettingFeb 12 07:20
DaemonFCI just clicked on the Spotify itemFeb 12 07:22
DaemonFCapparently it doesn't bundle the blob nowFeb 12 07:22
DaemonFCit will offer to fetch it for youFeb 12 07:22
DaemonFCwhen they put it in at first, they included the blobFeb 12 07:22
DaemonFCthey must have changed this before 1.0 went outFeb 12 07:22
DaemonFC"An additional plugin is required to use Spotify in Clementine.  Would you like to download and install it now?"Feb 12 07:22
DaemonFCstill, if you wanted free software only, you'd need to patch Clementine to not advertise or offer to fetch nonfree softwareFeb 12 07:23
*manuel254 (~yaaic@ has joined #techrightsFeb 12 07:36
*manuel254 has quit (Client Quit)Feb 12 07:38
DaemonFCprurigro: It looks like Spotify distributes libspotify as source code, but the source code is nonfreeFeb 12 07:40
DaemonFC 12 07:40
DaemonFCit's under this licenseFeb 12 07:40
DaemonFCthe stuff under /examples is under the MIT X11 license, but it's useless by itselfFeb 12 07:40
prurigrohmmFeb 12 07:41
prurigrosounds like boxeeFeb 12 07:41
prurigrosure its open source, but you need non-free blobs to make it work!Feb 12 07:41
DaemonFCI think the safest thing to do would be to remove the Spotify advertisements from the Celementine source codeFeb 12 07:42
DaemonFCthen compile and distribute thatFeb 12 07:42
DaemonFC*ClementineFeb 12 07:42
DaemonFCeven the advertisements carry restrictions that encumber the entire programFeb 12 07:42
DaemonFCeven if the user chooses not to use SpotifyFeb 12 07:42
Diablo-D3boxxee sucks anyhowFeb 12 07:42
Diablo-D3just buy a fucking rokuFeb 12 07:42
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] We're going to need a bigger disc.Feb 12 07:43
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Gay Math: ⇒Made me laughFeb 12 07:43
DaemonFC 12 07:45
DaemonFCOK, that's ridiculous Feb 12 07:45
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Whitney Houston is dead. May she find her peace.Feb 12 07:49
prurigrowaitFeb 12 07:51
prurigroDaemonFC, are they basically saying they don't need to keep up to date browsers in the distro?Feb 12 07:51
prurigroDiablo-D3, yae, fully agreed-- I tried maintaining that package for arch for a while, and they were actively sabotaging the attempts of anyone trying to compile from sourceFeb 12 07:52
prurigrochanging names of variables that needed patches from lowercase to caps etcFeb 12 07:52
prurigrojust so each release I'd need to go through and change all the changesFeb 12 07:52
prurigroor at least I can't think of any other reasonFeb 12 07:52
DaemonFCno, they're saying they should ship barely tested code (new major Firefox releases) in an Ubuntu LTSFeb 12 08:00
DaemonFCon the theory that Facebook or something might break if they're using Firefox 10 ESR next yearFeb 12 08:01
DaemonFC(it still works in IE 7 for god's sake!)Feb 12 08:01
prurigrooh hmmFeb 12 08:02
prurigrowhy not offer up to date firefox packages for those who need it in a separate repo?Feb 12 08:02
DaemonFCI think they should ship two versions of FirefoxFeb 12 08:05
DaemonFCfirefox follows rapid release cycleFeb 12 08:06
DaemonFCand firefox-esr follows the ESR branchFeb 12 08:06
DaemonFCand firefox-esr should be the default in an LTSFeb 12 08:06
prurigrokinda like their nightly vs beta vs firefox? Feb 12 08:08
prurigrothen firefox lts?Feb 12 08:08
DaemonFCFirefox ESR is a long term Firefox branch that Mozilla is creatingFeb 12 08:10
DaemonFCit will initially be based on Firefox 10Feb 12 08:10
DaemonFCeach ESR release is supported for a year then there will be a new ESR, so the next ESR should be like Firefox 14 ESR or somethingFeb 12 08:10
DaemonFCgnash 0.8.10 is releasedFeb 12 08:12
DaemonFC 12 08:12
prurigrohmm, I wonder how it is at this pointFeb 12 08:16
DaemonFCUbuntu still has a snapshot of it from NovemberFeb 12 08:16
DaemonFCin PreciseFeb 12 08:16
prurigroall I use flash for, like 99% of the time is youtube videos that don't support html5 videoFeb 12 08:16
DaemonFCDebian Sid has the 0.8.10 final releaseFeb 12 08:16
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DaemonFCI'm going to try to pull the gnash packages out of DebianFeb 12 08:29
DaemonFCsince Ubuntu can't be bothered to follow themFeb 12 08:29
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] !Tzaf and good night !identiverseFeb 12 08:42
*DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)Feb 12 08:47
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] RT @hamide I prescribe "Take it easy" for anyone who's become infected with "life sucks" compounds.Take it 6times a day,every 4hours,eve ...Feb 12 08:47
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Must Read⇒Wired: "The internet is being controlled by a corrupt industry. We need to stop it." !CDNpoli !C11 !copyrightFeb 12 08:51
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prurigroDaemonFC, so you really use ubuntu atm?Feb 12 08:52
DaemonFCapparently Flash 11.2 beta no longer crashes qtwebkitFeb 12 08:52
DaemonFCaccording to Rex Dieter of FedoraFeb 12 08:52
prurigrolol, I wonder if it fixes all the issues it currently has with youtube tooFeb 12 08:53
DaemonFC█▓▒░ryan@ryan-MS-7501░▒▓██▓▒░ Sun Feb 12 03:53:06amFeb 12 08:53
DaemonFC/home/ryan> cat /etc/lsb-release Feb 12 08:53
DaemonFCDISTRIB_ID=UbuntuFeb 12 08:53
DaemonFCDISTRIB_RELEASE=12.04Feb 12 08:53
DaemonFCDISTRIB_CODENAME=preciseFeb 12 08:53
DaemonFCDISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu precise (development branch)"Feb 12 08:53
prurigrohmmFeb 12 08:53
prurigrois that the rolling version?Feb 12 08:53
DaemonFCit is the branch that will end up being 12.04 ltsFeb 12 08:54
DaemonFCand it's Kubuntu, not UbuntuFeb 12 08:54
DaemonFC 12 08:54
DaemonFCwhat the hell? if it means I can use qtwebkit...Feb 12 08:55
DaemonFCgnash is still a huge letdownFeb 12 08:55
DaemonFCit has its own qtwewbkit problemsFeb 12 08:55
prurigrooh dearFeb 12 08:56
prurigrothe one they just axed eh?Feb 12 08:56
prurigroand hmm, that sucksFeb 12 08:56
DaemonFCwell, it plays youtube videosFeb 12 08:56
prurigrooh?Feb 12 08:56
DaemonFCbut the video is tinyFeb 12 08:56
prurigrognash?Feb 12 08:56
prurigrooh hmmFeb 12 08:56
prurigrothat's kinda pointless thenFeb 12 08:56
prurigrofullscreen?>Feb 12 08:56
DaemonFCit works properly in Mozilla thoughFeb 12 08:57
DaemonFCand OperaFeb 12 08:57
prurigrooh weirdFeb 12 08:57
prurigroI was gonna say, if you can get it 'playing' the video, it should be easy to have the sizing correct, but this sounds like a cross platform issueFeb 12 08:57
DaemonFCFlash 11.2 does fix the qtwebkit problemFeb 12 08:58
DaemonFCmust have been a flash bug all alonFeb 12 08:58
DaemonFC*alongFeb 12 08:58
prurigrohmm, arch labels gnash as 'an open source flash movie player'Feb 12 09:00
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] RT @laurelrusswurm Must Read⇒Wired: "The internet is being controlled by a corrupt industry. We need to stop it." ! ...Feb 12 09:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] - fantastic resource gathering info on #ACTA & what to do about it - don't missFeb 12 09:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Simon Phipps: Freedom Doesn't Have Any Lobbyists - great point (v @sjig) #ACTAFeb 12 09:12
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Interview with Peter Suber - rightly pugnacious about #openaccessFeb 12 09:14
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Afghanistan unites behind #cricket team in defeat to Pakistan - wow, cricket conquers where 3 empires failedFeb 12 09:26
DaemonFCub 12 09:30
DaemonFCdamn itFeb 12 09:30
DaemonFC 12 09:30
DaemonFC:PFeb 12 09:30
DaemonFCschestowitz: Has Intellectual Vultures been up to anything new latelyFeb 12 09:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Australians: tell them what you think about #ACTA - official request by your gov (v @MsLods) #auFeb 12 09:31
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 09:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #guardian fail: no mention of #ACTA demos in Europe that I can see... old media much?Feb 12 09:32
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Soso. 23 Millionen € für den Papstbesuch bezahlt. Aus Rücklagen. Katholische Kirche. Fällt mir nix mehr ein. http... 12 09:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Blocking the web is the wrong way to help creative industries - great piece about why censorship is bad for UK businessFeb 12 09:37
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] RT @MsLods submissions to JSOT are closed, so Australians should tell local MPs & Trade Minister their views on #ACTA 12 09:37
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Bulgarian Protest Organizer: #ACTA Doesn't Distinguish Counterfeiting from Sharing - well-made points #bgFeb 12 09:41
DaemonFCthis beta release of Rekonq is terribly unstableFeb 12 09:42
DaemonFCFlash stopped crashing it and it decided to start crashing itselfFeb 12 09:42
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 09:42
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Shared a post " - fantastic resource gathering info on #ACTA & what to do about it -... 12 09:49
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] ReDigi and the Purpose of FIrst Sale - interesting thoughts #copyrightFeb 12 09:51
prurigroDaemonFC, rekonq eh?Feb 12 09:52
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #ACTA protests erupt across Europe against web piracy treaty - excellent, detailed report from #reutersFeb 12 09:52
prurigrowhat's konqueror using these days? if not webkit?Feb 12 09:53
DaemonFCit can use khtml or qtwebkitFeb 12 09:54
DaemonFCif you have the webkit kpartFeb 12 09:54
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] (well apart from the "download movies for free" bit, of course...)Feb 12 09:54
DaemonFCit seems to be a better webkit browser than Rekonq latelyFeb 12 09:54
prurigrois qtwebkit modified?Feb 12 09:55
DaemonFCit's a port of webkit to qt, it supports everything webkit did at the time it was branchedFeb 12 09:56
DaemonFCI think the current qtwebkit (2.2) was branched last summer from the webkit trunkFeb 12 09:57
DaemonFCso it's pretty recentFeb 12 09:57
prurigrohmmFeb 12 09:57
prurigrobut that could still lack a hefty chunkFeb 12 09:57
prurigroI'm surprised they didn't built it to allow maintaining upstream supportFeb 12 09:57
DaemonFC 12 09:58
DaemonFC 12 09:59
prurigrooh hmm, I suppose it doesn't necessarily mean it won't be pulling up updates from trunkFeb 12 10:00
DaemonFC 12 10:01
DaemonFCKonqueror 4.8 with Qtwebkit 2.2Feb 12 10:01
prurigrohmm vs 374 for chromiumFeb 12 10:02
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prurigroDaemonFC, btw, when you joining the meshnet?Feb 12 10:03
oiaohm 12 10:04
DaemonFCyou know, now that I can view pages without flash loading and crashing webkit....Feb 12 10:06
DaemonFCKonqueror with webkit isn't half badFeb 12 10:07
oiaohmDaemonFC: other than the many secuirty holes webkit has its not bad.Feb 12 10:08
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DaemonFCother than the many security holes, the bloat, the bugs they do nothing about (and kick you from their chats for mentioning), and the extensions site that allows software under hideous licensing terms, Mozilla isn't badFeb 12 10:09
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 10:09
oiaohmDaemonFC:  something I do watchFeb 12 10:09
oiaohmDaemonFC: really at the moment gecko look secure.  Feb 12 10:09
oiaohmI am looking forward to when webkit gets it tail sorted out.Feb 12 10:10
DaemonFCuhhhmFeb 12 10:13
DaemonFCthe Webkit list doesn't list what bugs affect the Qtwebkit or Webkit GTK portsFeb 12 10:14
DaemonFCit talks about Google Chrome and iTunes on WindowsFeb 12 10:14
DaemonFCand all kinds of unimportant crapFeb 12 10:14
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 10:14
oiaohmqt and gtk are just wrappers around the webkit core engine.Feb 12 10:14
oiaohmso yep Qtwebkit and GTK webkit are hit by all those cveFeb 12 10:14
DaemonFCright, but a lot of these specifically mention ChromeFeb 12 10:15
DaemonFCor iTunesFeb 12 10:15
DaemonFC 12 10:15
oiaohm  each CVE is clickable threw.Feb 12 10:16
oiaohmDaemonFC: debian is using a test suite system.  on all secuirty bugs to see if it can be exploited still.Feb 12 10:17
oiaohmBasically until lot of the webkit main gets patched items like Konqueror are not safe to take on line.Feb 12 10:17
oiaohmDaemonFC: what ever distribution you run it pays to have the secuirty page basically on speed dial.Feb 12 10:19
oiaohmSo you know what is currently stuffed.Feb 12 10:19
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] Recently learnt how to use #magnet links on #transmission, now using it for everything. #PirateBay may have had something to do with itFeb 12 10:19
DaemonFCFirefox isn't interested in fixing security problemsFeb 12 10:22
DaemonFCor they would have fixed that ANGLE crashFeb 12 10:22
DaemonFCapparently they want to use Webkit2 in Qt5 Feb 12 10:24
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Generation Twitter schlägt zurück - good #ACTA piece from #derspeigel, as usualFeb 12 10:24
oiaohmDaemonFC: note no iceweaselFeb 12 10:25
oiaohmDebian firefox.Feb 12 10:25
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #Marvel/#Disney wages petty, vicious war against Ghost Rider creator - what was that about supporting artists?Feb 12 10:26
prurigrooiaohm, I hear icecat is better than iceweasel?Feb 12 10:27
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Catholic Leaders: Providing Birth Control 2 People in Need Raises "Serious Moral Concerns" - unlike paedophile priestsFeb 12 10:29
oiaohmprurigro I don't know where icecat is from but that is not debian.Feb 12 10:29
prurigrooiaohm, yea, apparently icecat spun off and removed the google tracking 'features' like website forgery checking etcFeb 12 10:30
prurigroamong other thingsFeb 12 10:30
prurigro 12 10:30
prurigrognu apparentlyFeb 12 10:30
oiaohmprurigro: debian does not support gnuzillaFeb 12 10:31
prurigroand by support you mean have a package for?Feb 12 10:31
oiaohmprurigro: it is not in any of the default repos.Feb 12 10:31
prurigroword, no 3rd party packages?Feb 12 10:31
oiaohmAnd its not getting in any of the default repos either.Feb 12 10:31
oiaohmMight be in one of the 3rd parties.Feb 12 10:32
oiaohmThere was kinda a blow up.Feb 12 10:32
prurigrooh?Feb 12 10:32
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] pix of #ACTA-Demo Berlin, 11.2.2012 - germans really leading the way here (v @boingboing) #deFeb 12 10:32
MinceRthe debian version is called iceweaselFeb 12 10:33
MinceRicecat is fsfFeb 12 10:33
DaemonFCiceape is their version of SeamonkeyFeb 12 10:33
DaemonFCDebians, that isFeb 12 10:33
prurigroMinceR, what are your thoughts on the two?Feb 12 10:33
DaemonFCsince Mozilla trolled Debian and lets Ubuntu and Red Hat do whatever they wantFeb 12 10:33
oiaohmRemoving website forgery checking without replacing it is a nice increased secuirty risk.  prurigroFeb 12 10:33
DaemonFCsafe browsing is not a privacy riskFeb 12 10:34
DaemonFCthe list is downloaded locally, checks are done against the local copyFeb 12 10:34
prurigrono? its reporting each site you visit to googleFeb 12 10:34
prurigroreally?Feb 12 10:34
prurigrowhy do all the security paranoid browsers remove it then?Feb 12 10:34
oiaohmReally the website forgery checking there is no google report.Feb 12 10:34
DaemonFCI don't knowFeb 12 10:35
DaemonFCthey're probably jsut being stupidFeb 12 10:35
oiaohmiceweasel strips out anything that break privacy.Feb 12 10:35
MinceRprurigro: not sureFeb 12 10:35
oiaohmIncluding the items that were leading to mozilla being paid.Feb 12 10:35
MinceRi just tend to use whichever the distro hasFeb 12 10:35
oiaohmIe the explosion.Feb 12 10:35
oiaohmDaemonFC: Ubuntu and Redhat did not cut off at that time mozilla source of income.Feb 12 10:36
MinceRexplosion?Feb 12 10:36
oiaohmMinceR: the Mozilla suing debian explosion that make iceweaselFeb 12 10:36
prurigroits also in chrome under 'privacy'Feb 12 10:36
MinceRicFeb 12 10:36
prurigroMinceR, hmm, interesting-- what distro do you use again?Feb 12 10:37
oiaohmprurigro: what distrobution do you run by the way.Feb 12 10:38
prurigroarchlinux :)Feb 12 10:38
prurigro(the best linux)Feb 12 10:38
prurigro;)Feb 12 10:38
MinceRfedora, debian, kubuntuFeb 12 10:38
MinceRon various machinesFeb 12 10:39
MinceRand sometimes angstrom :>Feb 12 10:39
MinceRbut i'm moving towards fedora on all x86 boxenFeb 12 10:39
oiaohmReally I wish dbus new version would make it out of sidFeb 12 10:39
prurigroMinceR, what devices would angstrom be running on?Feb 12 10:39
MinceRarchos 43 internet tabletFeb 12 10:39
oiaohmSo I can move up to systemd on my linux boxes.Feb 12 10:39
oiaohmsystemd is 1000 times better than old sysv init releations.Feb 12 10:39
prurigroMinceR, oh cool- what does that come preloaded with?Feb 12 10:40
prurigrooiaohm, so everyone's been assuring me-- think anything would need to change if I slotted it ontop of my sysv setupFeb 12 10:40
prurigro?Feb 12 10:40
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oiaohmprurigro: cgroup is wrapped automatticaly around every service and session in systemdFeb 12 10:48
oiaohmThis cures the hmm what service/user started that process that just ate my cpu for lunch.Feb 12 10:49
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The beauty and the boss prepare for #China's top jobs - good background on hugely important couple (v @GraniteStudio)Feb 12 10:51
prurigrooiaohm, doesn't root start services exclusively?Feb 12 10:51
oiaohmprurigro: so don't understand the evil of sysv init systems.Feb 12 10:53
prurigrooiaohm, wait hrm?Feb 12 10:53
oiaohmsysv init starts services all right as root.  But it keeps like a pid of the main process to know if the service is running.Feb 12 10:54
oiaohmThis does not help you if somethine exec something else.Feb 12 10:54
oiaohmcgroup around services.  Each services started processes become listed in that cgroup.Feb 12 10:55
oiaohmAlso nicer you can allocate how much ram and cpu time each cgroup will allocate.Feb 12 10:55
prurigrowhat something would exec something else?Feb 12 10:55
oiaohmphp in apache breached. Feb 12 10:56
oiaohmOr equally bad.Feb 12 10:56
prurigrohmm, just looking at my sysv setup thoughFeb 12 10:59
oiaohmsysv is a very old design.Feb 12 10:59
oiaohmAlso very stupid.Feb 12 10:59
MinceRprurigro: it comes with android, but the manufacturer provides a "Special Developer Edition" which is based on Angstrom and the device dual-boots if it's installedFeb 12 10:59
prurigroI have like 1 httpd process started by root, and something like 10 by user httpFeb 12 10:59
MinceRunfortunately SDE is very incompleteFeb 12 11:00
prurigrooiaohm, feels like it downgrades permissionsFeb 12 11:00
MinceRi'm playing around with debian rootfs images provided by others for now, but i suspect i'll just make my ownFeb 12 11:00
prurigroMinceR, oh awesome-- does that mean open source drivers too?Feb 12 11:00
MinceRnopeFeb 12 11:00
prurigroawwFeb 12 11:00
MinceRat least not for the gpuFeb 12 11:00
prurigrothat's my tablet's problem tooFeb 12 11:00
prurigrootherwise I'd throw archlinux-arm on it completely, rather than just ontop of androidFeb 12 11:01
MinceRwell, at least plain framebuffer works with free drivers, i thinkFeb 12 11:01
MinceRactually i'm not sure if the gpu driver is free or notFeb 12 11:01
MinceRit can be obtainedFeb 12 11:01
MinceRthe userspace library seems to be nonfreeFeb 12 11:01
oiaohmprurigro: the first process does downgrade user normally.Feb 12 11:01
MinceRin any case, my use case doesn't depend on 3d :>Feb 12 11:02
oiaohmprurigro:  the old compare.Feb 12 11:02
oiaohmprurigro: but vsys has not progressed one bit.Feb 12 11:02
prurigroMinceR, so maybe along the lines of nvidia's?Feb 12 11:03
prurigroMinceR, it'd be kinda cool to see kde and gnome's tablet features taken advantage of in an actual tablet though, imo :)Feb 12 11:03
prurigrooiaohm, so basically, I start with what I have now working, and I can suddenly extend things to a ridiculous degree?Feb 12 11:04
DaemonFCyikesFeb 12 11:05
prurigrowould the process that changes permissions still work?Feb 12 11:05
*DaemonFC managed to crack his neck just nowFeb 12 11:05
prurigroackFeb 12 11:05
DaemonFCthat actually felt pretty good thoughFeb 12 11:05
prurigroI hate neck crackageFeb 12 11:05
DaemonFCit has been stiff all dayFeb 12 11:05
DaemonFCcue the obvious joke Feb 12 11:05
oiaohmprurigro: depend on you distributions.  Currenting in debian dbus required is still in sidFeb 12 11:06
*DaemonFC took a viagra and it got stuck in his throat and now he's had a stiff neck all dayFeb 12 11:06
oiaohmwithout that dbus when I start systemd I lose network connections off start line prurigroFeb 12 11:06
oiaohmprurigro: basically current state is o my hell.Feb 12 11:06
oiaohmprurigro: but other than that all my old sysv files work perfectly execpt now wrapped.Feb 12 11:06
prurigrooiaohm, I have dbus started in my init scripts (its the first one), but if that didn't work hahaFeb 12 11:07
oiaohmprurigro: basically once dbus works safe I will change to systemd default.Feb 12 11:07
prurigroword, yea, it sounds like the distro has to decide to piggyback itFeb 12 11:08
prurigrothe arch wiki shows you how to set it up, but it recommends against at this pointFeb 12 11:08
oiaohmprurigro: basically as soon as it recommended do.Feb 12 11:09
oiaohmbut not before.Feb 12 11:09
prurigroit'll probably put it in by default at that pointFeb 12 11:09
prurigroif I had to guessFeb 12 11:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] if @OrangeKenya keep that 39/- unlimited data for 24hrs thing going, me and my Smart-phone are their loyal customers. /cc @nj3ma @kelzOKOFeb 12 11:09
oiaohmprurigro: when you see the feature difference you can see why I am waiting for it.Feb 12 11:10
prurigrowell it does seem betterFeb 12 11:10
prurigrobut if your distro has been keeping init scripts properly permissioned, it shouldn't make too much of a difference to the userFeb 12 11:11
oiaohmReally scripts don't track.Feb 12 11:11
prurigrobut if they launch with the daemon boxed into a particular userFeb 12 11:12
oiaohmBig difference for user is ulatancyd that comes along as well.Feb 12 11:12
DaemonFCnew privoxy releaseFeb 12 11:12
DaemonFCfixes a security problemFeb 12 11:12
oiaohm prurigro this come in combination with systemd it needs stuff cgroup wrapped.Feb 12 11:15
prurigrooiaohm, I suppose that could be handyFeb 12 11:16
prurigrothough I'd hope it'd be like the old way if you didn't set it differentlyFeb 12 11:16
oiaohmprurigro: Particularly that it allows you to emulate windows preference to active window.Feb 12 11:16
prurigrowindow?Feb 12 11:17
oiaohmms windowsFeb 12 11:17
prurigrointerestingFeb 12 11:18
oiaohmbias cpu time based on what window is currently highlighted.Feb 12 11:18
prurigrothat's pretty impressiveFeb 12 11:18
prurigroI'd definitely want certain things to override that, of courseFeb 12 11:18
prurigrobut coolFeb 12 11:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] Malaysia deports journalist to Saudi over mild Mohammad tweets 12 11:21
oiaohmulatancyd is fully lua programable controlled.Feb 12 11:21
oiaohmSo yes you have full control over how its doing anything if you want it prurigroFeb 12 11:22
oiaohmprurigro:  systemd service files are way smaller so less likely to typo them badly as well.Feb 12 11:23
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The firm that hijacked the #NHS: #McKinsey - time to end this disgrace; surprisingly good MoS story (v @bengoldacre)Feb 12 11:26
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Daniel Radcliffe sings "The Elements" - a non-trivial achievement #lehrer #chemistryFeb 12 11:32
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Teenage Tibetan nun sets herself on fire in #China - yet more tragic acts of desperation #tibetFeb 12 11:37
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] Sweden: From neutrality to NATO. How "neutral" Sweden covertly placed its forces under US command. #svpol #auspol (PDF)Feb 12 11:42
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[linuxconfau/@linuxconfau] Didn't catch those #LCA2012 videos? On Youtube at and @linuxaustralia mirror at 12 11:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] This guy will prolly be the Republican presidential candidate: #USA #santorumFeb 12 11:54
DaemonFCOpera now has Do Not RapeFeb 12 12:00
DaemonFC 12 12:00
DaemonFCThis Wahoo build adds support for Do Not Track, which allows browser users to opt out of being tracked on the web. It is currently disabled by default, but can be enabled by enabling the following option in Opera's Preferences dialog: "Preferences > Advanced > Security > Ask websites not to track me"Feb 12 12:01
DaemonFCNote that this will only work if the site actually honors the request. Few sites currently do, and the effect of DNT will have to be evaluated to see if it is a viable solution in the long run.Feb 12 12:01
DaemonFC"You can't rape me! I'm wearing my Do Not Rape t-shirt!"Feb 12 12:01
DaemonFCmore Firefox stupidityFeb 12 12:01
oiaohmDaemonFC: some countries its a legal requirement to obey that.Feb 12 12:03
oiaohmSo its not invalid.Feb 12 12:03
oiaohmJust not that useful.Feb 12 12:03
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] 5 Years On: Why Understanding Chris Lightfoot Matters Now More Than Ever - good postFeb 12 12:29
*iophk (~unknown2@unaffiliated/iophk) has joined #techrightsFeb 12 12:37
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to iophkFeb 12 12:37
iophkOpen hardware : 12 12:38
DaemonFC 12 12:40
DaemonFCmore anti-malware hilarityFeb 12 12:40
DaemonFCthis time it's Avast, attacking and removing SteamFeb 12 12:40
DaemonFCwhile my opinion of Steam is that it's malicious (it is a DRM platform), its users might not be so amusedFeb 12 12:41
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Shared a post "Nice page with all you need to know to do Android development on Fedora LInux" 12 13:04
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] ♺ @dnouri: "The genius of a construction lies in its simplicity. Everyone can build complicated things" ~Sergei Korolev, 12 13:07
DaemonFCanyone who uses AIFF/sowt should be brutally murderedFeb 12 13:09
DaemonFCbrutallyFeb 12 13:09
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 13:09
DaemonFC 12 13:12
*oiaohm has quit (Quit: by all)Feb 12 13:18
DaemonFC 12 13:25
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DaemonFCmaybe they need to change what AIFF stands for since Apple changed it for no reason except to cause problems on older MacsFeb 12 13:32
DaemonFCApple's IFFy file format?Feb 12 13:32
*fewt ( has joined #techrightsFeb 12 13:33
*DaemonFC starts throwing Apple's little endian AIFFs that won't play at fewt one by oneFeb 12 13:34
DaemonFCthere was 2 GB of wasted bandwidthFeb 12 13:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @Tanfoglio_ @hannesvdvreken lololololololl!Feb 12 13:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: RT @kodel: Stom van Pattex. Als je een QR code op je product zet, plaats er dan info over dat product a http://ur1. ...Feb 12 13:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: @poggs Have you seen this yet? - Real-time updates through XMPP by @openOVFeb 12 13:34
fewtbring it, I can handle itFeb 12 13:34
fewtwhile read line; do echo $line >/dev/null; doneFeb 12 13:35
fewt:DFeb 12 13:35
DaemonFCdon't play with that, you'll hurt yourselfFeb 12 13:37
*DaemonFC distracts fewt with Windows VistaFeb 12 13:37
fewteww wtf is this crapFeb 12 13:37
fewt:DFeb 12 13:38
fewtthey call this an operating systemFeb 12 13:38
DaemonFCthe progress bar is moving but the remaining time is going UP!Feb 12 13:38
DaemonFCWindowsFeb 12 13:38
fewtlook, it's using 3GB of RAM, but we only have 512MB!Feb 12 13:38
fewt+Feb 12 13:38
*fewt puts sarcasm hat on early todayFeb 12 13:38
DaemonFCcopying files.....2 minutes....37 minutes....3 hours.....about 12 days......Feb 12 13:39
DaemonFCCANCEL, CANCEL!!!! CANCELLLLLL!!!!!!Feb 12 13:39
DaemonFCAHHHHHHH!!!!Feb 12 13:39
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] London suffers worst child poverty rate #uk who cares when the queen must have a new yacht! 12 13:39
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] NewsBlok2 - great site... #it's always a tab away :)Feb 12 13:41
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] "I fear for a social explosion: Greeks can't take any more punishment | World news | The Observer" from 12 13:59
DaemonFC 12 14:15
DaemonFCThey're a little late for I Love YouFeb 12 14:15
DaemonFC 12 14:15
DaemonFCfewt: Wine now apparently has 100% vbscript support, so all that Windows crap can run on it nowFeb 12 14:16
DaemonFCapparentlyFeb 12 14:16
DaemonFCI've never seen a compelling reason to have vbs supportFeb 12 14:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] ο βενιζέλος μου'φαγε το bandwidthFeb 12 14:19
DaemonFC 12 14:20
*prurigro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)Feb 12 14:21
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DaemonFCwith .NET you get the performance of Java, the hazards of C++, and the portability of Visual BasicFeb 12 14:25
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] υπαρχει ραδιο της βουλης online;γιατι με το κανάλι δεν προκειται να καταφερω να δω ακουσω μια ολοκληρωμενη προταση σημερα με τοσα κολληματαFeb 12 14:27
fewtWINE is pretty usefulFeb 12 14:30
fewtA lot of legacy software uses VBSFeb 12 14:31
fewtbut I dunno if that's why it's there or notFeb 12 14:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #BBC to issue global apology for documentaries that broke rules - too right #malaysia #palmoil (v @mathewi)Feb 12 14:31
fewtcan't really think of anything offhand that uses it eitherFeb 12 14:31
fewthrmFeb 12 14:31
DaemonFCfewt: They could have saved themselves the trouble and written something that only had to interpret one line, and they still would have covered 90% of VB use casesFeb 12 14:33
DaemonFClaunch porn while email self to address bookFeb 12 14:33
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 14:33
fewthehFeb 12 14:33
DaemonFC*VBS that isFeb 12 14:34
DaemonFCyeah, every time I actually saw something in vbscript it was some crude sort of malwareFeb 12 14:34
DaemonFCnot really sure why you'd want it in WineFeb 12 14:35
DaemonFCwe're already porting Microsoft Office macro viruses to other platforms with OOo/LibreOfficeFeb 12 14:35
fewtI've used vbscript for a lot of things historicallyFeb 12 14:39
fewtsending mail from SQL serverFeb 12 14:39
fewtfor exampleFeb 12 14:39
fewtor processing files that land on a Windows nodeFeb 12 14:39
fewtthat's like 10 years ago though, so mehFeb 12 14:39
DaemonFCwell, you have to give them credit for .NET, it's the first thing they've done where the typical software produced with it was incompetent but benignFeb 12 14:40
fewtI don't know that it could be called incompetent, a lot of great software was created with itFeb 12 14:41
fewtlike vsphere managerFeb 12 14:41
fewtsadly, a windows tool to manage servers with Linux roots.Feb 12 14:41
DaemonFCI liked the arms dealers that camped out around .NETFeb 12 14:41
DaemonFCthey'd sell some developer that didn't want to expose their source code an obfuscator programFeb 12 14:42
DaemonFCand then they'd turn around and sell other people a deobfuscator programFeb 12 14:42
fewtI've used .net for pretty cool thingsFeb 12 14:42
fewtlike building a tool that sits on a group of nodes, monitors them for specific events, and takes specific actions based on the outputFeb 12 14:43
fewtthat runs on Windows and Linux - unalteredFeb 12 14:43
fewtso I could mix node typesFeb 12 14:43
fewtbecause the app demanded itFeb 12 14:43
fewtI used it to create the first geo-dispersed cluster at a company I used to work for.Feb 12 14:43
fewtclustering software that didn't technically support clustering.Feb 12 14:44
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] τι το ηθελα να βάλω το καναλι της βουλης. με εχει πιασει ταχυπαλμία.Feb 12 14:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #SOPAIreland: where's the legal advice? - yeah, where is it? #ieFeb 12 14:46
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sebsebsebHi fewtFeb 12 14:55
sebsebsebfewt: the guy who started Fuduntu aren't you?Feb 12 14:55
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fewtyesFeb 12 14:57
fewthiFeb 12 14:57
fewt:DFeb 12 14:57
DaemonFCIf a company says they have to pour toxic waste into your drinking water or they won't open a factory, we should tell them to not build the factory.Feb 12 14:59
DaemonFC Feb 12 14:59
DaemonFCIf the MAFIAA says they need to strip you of your constitutional rights so that they can make another movie or publish a new album, we should tell them that we don't need that new movie or album.Feb 12 14:59
DaemonFC Feb 12 15:00
DaemonFCWe're being offered something that does not compensate us for what we lost to get it.Feb 12 15:00
DaemonFCfrom an email to my dad discussing the MAFIAAFeb 12 15:00
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 15:00
sebsebsebfewt: told someone about Fuduntu earlier, since  someone who really likes Gnome 2.Feb 12 15:04
sebsebsebplus I have told some people on IRC before about Fuduntu :DFeb 12 15:04
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Luis Suarez finally apologizes for his actions How co... 12 15:04
fewtsweet action :DFeb 12 15:04
sebsebsebfewt: not treid it out myself yet in a vm, but I did read your comments  on this link before for example as well, and does seem interesting: 12 15:05
fewtThe distro is starting to pick up steamFeb 12 15:05
sebsebseb 12 15:05
sebsebsebwell nice ideaFeb 12 15:05
sebsebsebstay with Gnome 2 as long as you canFeb 12 15:05
sebsebsebthen start replacing bits, and then eventauly replace Gnome 2 as well when really have to, and then I guess you could with Mate anyway so :DFeb 12 15:06
fewt+Feb 12 15:06
sebsebseb+ ???Feb 12 15:06
fewtI agreeFeb 12 15:06
fewt:DFeb 12 15:06
fewtand / or I likeFeb 12 15:06
fewtI use + a lotFeb 12 15:06
sebsebsebfewt: only thing with Fuduntu is the name is a bit bad really, since then got to tell people when telling them about it, that no it 's not Ubuntu based even though the name, it's actualy Fedora basedFeb 12 15:07
fewtYeah, the name is badFeb 12 15:07
fewtthat's one of the reasons I like itFeb 12 15:07
fewtit falls in line with all the other bad distro namesFeb 12 15:07
sebsebsebsuch as?Feb 12 15:07
fewtmandriva, sabyon, ubuntuFeb 12 15:07
fewthahFeb 12 15:07
sebsebsebSabayonFeb 12 15:07
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] φωτογραφία απο #syntagma #12fgr #rbnews 12 15:07
sebsebsebMandriva is a good name :)Feb 12 15:08
sebsebsebSabayon uhmm seems ok, but it's like how to pronunce thatFeb 12 15:08
fewtI really don't like mandrivaFeb 12 15:08
fewtthe name anywayFeb 12 15:08
sebsebseband the Ubuntu name goes with their old slogan and such, Ubuntu Linux for human beingsFeb 12 15:08
fewtMandrake was a good nameFeb 12 15:08
fewttrueFeb 12 15:08
sebsebseband Ubuntu meant humanity or whateverFeb 12 15:08
sebsebsebfewt: yeah, but they got sued for using the Mandrake nameFeb 12 15:08
sebsebsebso they had to change nameFeb 12 15:08
fewtI knowFeb 12 15:08
fewtI rememberFeb 12 15:08
sebsebsebwhat about Mageia :)Feb 12 15:08
sebsebsebyou like that name?Feb 12 15:08
fewtyes mageia is an awful nameFeb 12 15:09
fewt<3Feb 12 15:09
sebsebsebawful you say, as in so you like heh heh ?Feb 12 15:09
fewtyesFeb 12 15:09
fewtI think our name fits though, even if it isn't spectacularFeb 12 15:09
sebsebsebMageia is a good name I think :)  ,but when people don't know what it means, doesn't mean much, plus it's one of those names, how to pronunce it, and apparnalty it's ok to prounce it in more than one wayFeb 12 15:09
fewtI put it to our community for discussion, they wanted to keep it.Feb 12 15:10
fewtWhich was good enough for me :DFeb 12 15:10
sebsebsebfewt: I thought schestowitz had some issues with you, or he disagreed with you about something,  but I notice your here anyway, which well is fine with me :)Feb 12 15:10
fewtDoes he?  He hasn't mentioned it.Feb 12 15:11
sebsebsebfewt: not sureFeb 12 15:11
sebsebsebfewt: and if so,  no big deal :)Feb 12 15:11
fewtI dropped in because I saw fuduntu being discussed in the weblog and had a slight correction.Feb 12 15:11
fewtLiked it here, so I've stayed.Feb 12 15:11
sebsebsebfewt: oh you read the logs?Feb 12 15:11
DaemonFCDMCA complaints are like, the dumbest thing a company can send to GoogleFeb 12 15:11
fewtHe probably had issue with my existance at the site formerly known as linsux.Feb 12 15:12
DaemonFCbecause then Google posts something like thisFeb 12 15:12
DaemonFCIn response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 2 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint that caused the removal(s) at 12 15:12
fewtI don't normally, but it came up in a search for something elseFeb 12 15:12
DaemonFCand, then you get the Streisand EffectFeb 12 15:12
sebsebsebfewt: oh right yeah could be what you just said, but as I say I don't really knowFeb 12 15:12
DaemonFCwhere only a handful of people were sharing your stuff before, now it's hundredsFeb 12 15:12
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] Is it possible to listen to She Bangs the Drums and not get a lift? #musicFeb 12 15:12
sebsebsebfewt: and yeah htis channel is quite nice most of the time, but some of the regulars here, get a bit crazy or something at timesFeb 12 15:13
sebsebsebfewt: plus trolls sometiems read the logs and suchFeb 12 15:13
fewtThey get indexed by google, so they sometimes come up when I'm searching for thingsFeb 12 15:14
sebsebsebfewt: I think Desktop Linux is much more interesting now reallyFeb 12 15:14
sebsebsebI mean since all this people not just liking Gnome Shell or Unity stuffFeb 12 15:14
sebsebsebso  more choices nowFeb 12 15:14
fewtI agreeFeb 12 15:14
sebsebsebwe got distros such as yours who will hold on to Gnome 2 for ages, we got Mint  doing interesting stuffFeb 12 15:15
fewtnew stuff like Cinnamon coming alongFeb 12 15:15
sebsebsebyep exactly :)Feb 12 15:15
fewtI'm not happy with GNOME3 or Unity - but it has caused the shift that is leading to new innovations and new directionsFeb 12 15:15
fewtso once it all shakes out, it will be for the betterFeb 12 15:16
sebsebsebyep which  is good :)Feb 12 15:16
sebsebsebGnome used to well just be Gnome beforeFeb 12 15:16
fewtI'll grumble about it though until it settles down hehFeb 12 15:16
sebsebsebnow it's well not just Gnome anymoreFeb 12 15:16
sebsebsebinterfacewise I meanFeb 12 15:16
fewtXFCE will take off this year IMHOFeb 12 15:16
fewtI have an XFCE desktop in the repoFeb 12 15:16
sebsebsebnow Gnome can be, Gnome Shell, Unity, or Cinnamon basiclelyFeb 12 15:16
sebsebsebXFCE is getting more popular as well now yeah, but I would rather use real Gnome 2Feb 12 15:17
fewtThe community decided they preferred GNOME 2 so we didn't ship it as a spinFeb 12 15:17
sebsebsebsame thing for LXDE, would rather use real Gnome 2.  oh and XFCE was first before Gnome 2 it turns outFeb 12 15:17
sebsebsebfewt: have you got Gnome Shell in Fuduntu at all or Gnome 3? no?Feb 12 15:17
fewtno gnome 3Feb 12 15:17
sebsebsebnot even in a spinFeb 12 15:17
sebsebsebokFeb 12 15:17
fewtactually, I have GNOME3 2.9x which I'm about to remove from the repoFeb 12 15:18
sebsebsebfewt: of course at the moment, most of the Unity dislikers are going to Mint hmmFeb 12 15:18
sebsebsebfewt: or staying with a older version of UbuntuFeb 12 15:18
fewtbecause it's nothing but one big compatibility problem we inherited from FedoraFeb 12 15:18
fewtyeah they areFeb 12 15:18
fewtbut we've seen a lot of them come to Fuduntu.Feb 12 15:18
sebsebsebhowever  things  are staritng to go more general again when it comes to distros :)Feb 12 15:18
fewtnot as many as have shifted elsewhereFeb 12 15:18
sebsebsebideally I would like Ubuntu to lose a lot of it's users to other distros, so things become much more general :)Feb 12 15:18
fewtI'm actually saddened that Ubuntu lost it's focusFeb 12 15:18
fewtbecause it was a great distributionFeb 12 15:19
fewtI hope it finds it again somedayFeb 12 15:19
sebsebsebtrue it used to be quite good, but then it started going down hill when 9.04 was in devellopmentFeb 12 15:19
fewtyepFeb 12 15:19
sebsebsebGnome 2 patching at first, removing features such as shut down in the system menu when those patches enabled, and so on from thereFeb 12 15:19
fewtabout the time I became infamous for calling it a Garbage Salad hah!Feb 12 15:19
sebsebseboh got a link for this or something~?Feb 12 15:19
fewtIt's long since fallen off my blog, but I can probably find it mirroredFeb 12 15:19
fewtlemme lookFeb 12 15:19
fewt 12 15:20
sebsebsebI used to think that Ubuntu 8.10  was really good and ready for the main streame, well if they had enough help from people who knew about it, and really a main strema OS needs more than 18 months of supportFeb 12 15:20
sebsebseb,but I didn't think about support when I thought 8.10 was ready, also this wa before I upgraded another computere here from 8.04, and the etehrent stopped working, turns out it woudn't on 8.10 Live CD anyway, but that needs a driver in XP as wellFeb 12 15:21
sebsebsebworked in 9.04 though, eventaully that computer went Mandriva as well, this one already hadFeb 12 15:21
sebsebseb10.04 refused to let anyone log in and I gave up on Ubuntu for that computer then, since I was customising it to look more like old verisons of Ubuntu anwyay, as in brown theme, and rmeoving patches and putting icons in the menus and suchFeb 12 15:21
sebsebsebfewt: oh interesting you used to make eeebuntuFeb 12 15:22
fewtI used to work on the team, yesFeb 12 15:22
fewtIt was misreported that I started Eeebuntu.Feb 12 15:23
sebsebsebfewt: 10.04 is where for me Ubuntu got really badFeb 12 15:23
fewtI had switched to Fedora before 10.04Feb 12 15:24
sebsebseb9.04 and 9.10, just little things, Gnome 2 patching, could remove and get the feautrtes back that were meant to be there really such as shut down in the system menu, and auto shut down after a minute if doing shut down and left itFeb 12 15:24
fewtWith 13 I found that I was doing a lot to fix things I didn't likeFeb 12 15:24
sebsebseboh?Feb 12 15:24
fewtwith 14, I wanted to automate those things I was installing or fixingFeb 12 15:24
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] you're right, it's relative; but this is sad stuff from what was once a greater institutionFeb 12 15:24
fewtnot in the engineered desktopFeb 12 15:24
sebsebseb10.04 was the big ah for me, plus on top of things I  really didn't like the new branding, and I still don't.Feb 12 15:24
fewtI used a newer kernel, different versions of softwareFeb 12 15:24
sebsebsebI would rather have the brown look any day :DFeb 12 15:24
sebsebseband yes could install it, but defaults is what I care about when it comes to distros a lot as wellFeb 12 15:25
fewtthings that over time led to the experiment that became FuduntuFeb 12 15:25
sebsebsebI want good defaults, I don't want ot customise a lotFeb 12 15:25
fewt+Feb 12 15:25
sebsebsebas for Fedora well I started with that back in 2004, Fedora Core 2 and 4,  coudn't use online at the time since not etherneted had this silly wirelss device.  to noob for ndiswrapperFeb 12 15:25
fewtI moved away from Fedora when RedHat shifted from RedHat 10 and rebranded it as Fedora Core 1Feb 12 15:26
sebsebsebthen later Live CD trying such as Knoppix and Morphix and Gnopix.  FC2 the one I just installed, four CD's, four hours or so to install on a 128MB RAM PC.  Grub messing up meant re installing so I do FC4, didn't last that long, then someone from school recommended Ubuntu, and I became a happy Ubuntu user for years.Feb 12 15:26
DaemonFC 12 15:26
fewtI had been a RedHat user since 4 or 5Feb 12 15:26
DaemonFCmore MAFIAA nonsenseFeb 12 15:26
sebsebsebthen the patching to Gnome I didn't like, and finding out about upstream Gnome from someone else on IRC a lot as well at the time, didn't really know anything about that at the time.Feb 12 15:26
DaemonFCRed Hat 8/9's KDE was pure shitFeb 12 15:27
sebsebseband then I try to go back to my routes since 9.04 how it was like and such, but Fedora 11 woudn't install,   didn't like my partions, nothing  fancy really,  said it was probably a bug and to report, but I didn't.Feb 12 15:27
DaemonFCone of Fedora's maintainers has kept the Bluecurve theme up to date with modern KDE and QtFeb 12 15:27
DaemonFCbarfFeb 12 15:27
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 15:27
sebsebsebfewt: Why is Fuduntu Fedora based?Feb 12 15:28
fewtI was using FedoraFeb 12 15:28
fewtand supporting RedHat serversFeb 12 15:28
sebsebsebas for basing distros on Ubuntu earlier, apparnatly that's not so easy now or not that good, since what  what htey are like, they only really care about Ubuntu or whatever people have told me onlienFeb 12 15:29
fewtI moved from Ubuntu over to Fedora, because it made sense since I was spending 99% of my time managing an RPM based distribution.Feb 12 15:29
fewtIt isn't that easy to maintain an Ubuntu based distributionFeb 12 15:29
sebsebsebwhy not? since  they don't work as a upstream that well?Feb 12 15:30
fewtso, since I was using Fedora on my corporate workstations and I wanted to automate the install on my second machine, Fuduntu came to exist.Feb 12 15:30
fewtUbuntu is debian + patches + their own installerFeb 12 15:30
fewtwhich is made of spaghettiFeb 12 15:30
fewtthings are hard coded all over the placeFeb 12 15:30
fewtwhich is OK, they don't care about downstreamFeb 12 15:31
fewtbut it makes it hard to supportFeb 12 15:31
fewtthings broke oftenFeb 12 15:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] It's Charles Darwin's 203rd birthday today - go download these PDFs and learn all about evolution. #fbFeb 12 15:31
fewtI don't have first hand experience with the installer, but someone on the Eeebuntu team wasn't happy with their work, it was a nightmare for him.Feb 12 15:31
fewt.. but I had nothing but problems maintaining Jupiter because Ubuntu patches would break things in the appletFeb 12 15:32
fewtthough then it was called Eee PC Utilities, and not JupiterFeb 12 15:32
DaemonFCfewt: I ran an OpenNap server years agoFeb 12 15:32
DaemonFCuntil I got a scary letter from the RIAAFeb 12 15:32
fewtouchFeb 12 15:32
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] RT @torproject Number of bridges/relays growing, thanks everyone! ...Feb 12 15:32
sebsebsebfewt: yeah and with Unity they could do more to help get it into other distros, much more really, but no they don'tFeb 12 15:33
sebsebsebfewt: I mean as an option in the reposFeb 12 15:33
sebsebsebfor those people who actualy like itFeb 12 15:33
DaemonFCso I posted a note on my site that since "Go fuck yourselves and die" wouldn't be reply that made them go away, I had no choice but to take my server downFeb 12 15:33
sebsebsebI belive that  other distros that are providing Gnome,  unless they also have hteir own interface like MintFeb 12 15:33
sebsebsebshould be going with Gnome Shell by defaultFeb 12 15:33
sebsebsebsince that's from the real upstream, and so the real Gnome interface really :DFeb 12 15:33
DaemonFCwhat surprised me was how little it actually took to run a Napster serverFeb 12 15:34
fewtI read over on the Fedora list that someone was trying to port itFeb 12 15:34
fewt(unity)Feb 12 15:34
sebsebsebyep they wereFeb 12 15:34
sebsebseband someone else tried for OpenSUSEFeb 12 15:34
fewtbut it was a nightmare due to all of Ubuntu's external patchesFeb 12 15:34
DaemonFCI could handle over 5,000 users at once on....Feb 12 15:34
sebsebsebyep something like thatFeb 12 15:34
DaemonFCa 768k DSL lineFeb 12 15:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[harishpillay/@harishpillay] On Darwin's birthday, let's contemplate our place in the cosmos - 12 15:34
sebsebsebexactly some technical issues or somethingFeb 12 15:34
sebsebsebplus it was only being done as a hobbyFeb 12 15:34
sebsebsebfewt: thanks for the earlier link by the way :) that was quitei nterestingFeb 12 15:35
sebsebsebcomments as wellFeb 12 15:35
sebsebsebheh hehFeb 12 15:35
fewtsure :DFeb 12 15:35
fewtyeah, I think in that article a few people sounded off against meFeb 12 15:36
sebsebsebin the comments they talked badly of you yeahFeb 12 15:36
fewtYou seem to get punished for speaking out against something you see as flawed.Feb 12 15:36
sebsebsebwell yeah can doFeb 12 15:36
sebsebsebLinux/opensource/freesoftware is rather opinionated and can be quite poloiticalFeb 12 15:36
sebsebsebso if you say something, that gets at other people bangFeb 12 15:36
sebsebseband well  schestowitz does this a lot with the Techrights blog, so someitmes people write bad about him on the web for exampleFeb 12 15:37
sebsebsebas a resultFeb 12 15:37
sebsebseband sometimes other people as well who just happended to have been in the channel at the time, when the trolls decided to read the logs.Feb 12 15:37
sebsebsebeven if these people don't have the same opinions as schestowitz when it comes to quite a lot of the tech stuff,  or not as much of one.Feb 12 15:38
DaemonFC 12 15:38
sebsebsebfewt: oh yeah all this will get publically logged to, oh well :DFeb 12 15:38
DaemonFCAnyone who defends what Microsoft and Apple do are hardly worthy of a responseFeb 12 15:38
sebsebsebfewt: I have been briefuly written about as well, and only, because I was in this channel at the timeFeb 12 15:38
sebsebseband typed somethingFeb 12 15:39
fewtIt doesn't bother me any moreFeb 12 15:39
sebsebsebDaemonFC: you mean the people who troll techrights?Feb 12 15:39
DaemonFCyeah, among othersFeb 12 15:39
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[diablod3/@diablod3] Austin police attempt to kidnap child while arresting grandpa for him being white and the child being black 12 15:39
sebsebsebfewt: so I ried to leave Ubuntu treid to go back to Fedora, but nopeFeb 12 15:40
DaemonFCwhat you have with Microsoft and Apple is not competition, it's one hand washing the otherFeb 12 15:40
sebsebsebfewt: so yep ended up still using Ubuntu, 9.04 and 9.10, and 10.04 for a bit, and uhFeb 12 15:40
sebsebsebtried out 10.10 later on for a bit evenFeb 12 15:40
fewtI'm really enjoying working on my own distribution, even if it never really grows.Feb 12 15:40
sebsebsebfewt: back in 2009 I ended up going down the whole list in a few daysFeb 12 15:40
fewtBecause I control my own destiny better now than ever.Feb 12 15:41
fewts/better/more/Feb 12 15:41
sebsebsebfewt: yep I understand what your saying :)Feb 12 15:41
sebsebsebsince it's yours, you got  full control really I guessFeb 12 15:41
sebsebsebI vm'd quite a few distro's.  also I was trying to get a Mandriva vm working then, but nope issues insteadFeb 12 15:41
fewtWell, yes and noFeb 12 15:41
sebsebsebI had known about Mandrake since a guy from college back in 2005, who was quite into itFeb 12 15:42
fewtI've made sure that as the team grew it became democraticFeb 12 15:42
sebsebseband he would say how great it was and such, but I was all into Ubuntu land at the time.Feb 12 15:42
fewtso I can be overruled if I try to do something stupidFeb 12 15:42
sebsebseband some guys online would say how good Mandriva was to me on IRC, and so I get a virtual machine working of a development version of what would become Mandriva 2010.0,  the uhmm October 2009 release, I think October.  and liked it :)Feb 12 15:42
fewtbut we are all on the same page. :DFeb 12 15:42
sebsebseband then I install 2010.0 on here and so on from there, try out PC Linux OS on here later on for like five months even,  first just in a vm a bit, but would give up on it since not lieking the branding, but I gave it a fair try out for like five months, since one of the guys who would say on IRC how great Mandriv was, started usign PC LInux OS instead and telling me how great htat was.Feb 12 15:43
DaemonFCthe bad news is I'm in the red this month and have to take a cash advance against a credit cardFeb 12 15:43
sebsebsebfewt: not sure if your reading all of my story here, and I am typing quite a bit :DFeb 12 15:43
fewtouchFeb 12 15:43
DaemonFCthe good news is, it's going to be less than $50 and I can hurry up and pay it back without interestFeb 12 15:43
fewtI'm trying to keep upFeb 12 15:44
sebsebsebfewt: ok :)Feb 12 15:44
fewtI'm also working on staging kmods for 3.2.5-3 in another window ;)Feb 12 15:44
DaemonFCfewt: cash advance interest rates on my card are exactly 0.1% APR beneath what my state considers usuryFeb 12 15:44
sebsebseband I used to help a lot of people online with Ubuntu in IRC and so on, from like July 2008 or something to like October 2010, and yes even when the distro wasn't quite what I wanted anymoreFeb 12 15:44
sebsebseb,but  don't really do that anymoreFeb 12 15:45
DaemonFCbut if you pay it by the next due date, you don't pay any interestFeb 12 15:45
sebsebsebwell might try sometimes what support would be like since used to help out there al otFeb 12 15:45
DaemonFCso, it means come hell or high water, I need to pay that right awayFeb 12 15:45
sebsebsebanyway I decided I wanted to do more than just online support for Linux and stuff like thatFeb 12 15:45
fewtDaemonFC yeah you doFeb 12 15:45
sebsebsebI decided I wanted to contribute more properly to a distro, join some offical teams that kind of thing :)Feb 12 15:45
fewt+Feb 12 15:45
sebsebseb,but yep not  Ubuntu, but of course, oh and when I did help with Ubuntu since some issues as well, I never wanted to become a Ubuntu Community MemberFeb 12 15:46
sebsebsebor basicalelyFeb 12 15:46
fewtWe can always use more help at Fuduntu :DFeb 12 15:46
fewtWe don't have the same policies that some distributions do though.Feb 12 15:47
sebsebsebanyway so I was using Mandriva and quite likeing it,  and well installed again on here since I did PC Linux OS for aw hile,  and kept hte other computer on it since I put onFeb 12 15:47
sebsebsebkept onFeb 12 15:47
sebsebsebthat one still has the Mnadriva install I put on it,  upgraded from 2010.1 to 2010.2Feb 12 15:47
sebsebseb2011 is latest, but don't want that on thereFeb 12 15:47
fewtWe don't have a problem with Mono, or shipping software with bad licenses (as long as they are OK or we receive permission to distribute).Feb 12 15:47
sebsebsebor  on here really a pshyicall install.Feb 12 15:48
fewtDoes Mandriva still have the penguin branding like Mandrake?Feb 12 15:48
sebsebsebfewt: right bingo I think that was it schestowitz wasn't so keen on Fuduntu, because you shipped MonoFeb 12 15:48
fewtI really liked what they did there.Feb 12 15:48
fewtThat could beFeb 12 15:48
sebsebsebfewt: I thought about Mandriva maybe to some how  do something offical for thatFeb 12 15:48
sebsebsebfewt: get a IRC cloak and that kind of thing you knowFeb 12 15:48
sebsebseb,but I also knew that Mandriva was like a sinking ship, it was Sumemr 2010Feb 12 15:49
sebsebsebremours about how it may go bankrupt and all that,  since they needed to get a new investor, which later happendedFeb 12 15:49
sebsebsebnow they are also having problems like this mroe recently,  since a share holder wasn't giving them the money they neededFeb 12 15:49
sebsebsebfewt: and then as I am thinking about contributing more properly to a distro some how,  the Mandriva fork, Mageia gets announced :)Feb 12 15:50
fewtI think I read that they got fundingFeb 12 15:50
fewtAre you contributing to Mageia?Feb 12 15:50
sebsebsebfewt: yes yes, but there's something very recent now as wellFeb 12 15:50
sebsebsebyep I contribute to Mageia now,  it was just IRC to begin with, but more recently offical teams as well, even went to FOSDEM this year as a Magiea person :)  however I am not doing development,  doing other stuff insteadFeb 12 15:50
sebsebsebI had been thinking about joining an offial team for quite a while, but  took me quite a while to sign up on the mailing lists as well, but yeah December is where that  began :) Feb 12 15:51
fewtawesomeFeb 12 15:51
sebsebsebso yeah not taking packaging, but on three of the less technical offical teams so far, and got IRC channelsFeb 12 15:51
sebsebseband got my Identica precense as well, denting Mageia stuff here and there and suchFeb 12 15:52
sebsebseband been on a audiocast before as well,  to talk about Mageia and Mandriva and so on, very general about Desktop LInuxFeb 12 15:52
sebsebsebfewt: oh yeah I mentioned Fuduntu briefuly in that episode as well if I remember correctlyFeb 12 15:52
sebsebsebI am very general to Desktop Linux :)Feb 12 15:53
fewt:DFeb 12 15:53
sebsebsebif I like a distro enough, I'll hang out in it's IRC channels at least, and help people here and thereFeb 12 15:53
sebsebsebor well useualyFeb 12 15:53
sebsebsebfewt: plus it's nice to help newbies :)Feb 12 15:54
fewtyeah it isFeb 12 15:54
sebsebseband yeah I go to the Mint IRC channels sometimes for example, for these reasons :)Feb 12 15:54
fewtWe need more of that community wide.Feb 12 15:54
sebsebsebplus that's about as close as I will get to helping with Ubuntu againFeb 12 15:54
fewtThe Ubuntu community has gotten better about it recentlyFeb 12 15:54
sebsebsebuseuallyFeb 12 15:54
fewtIt used to be pretty ugly at UFFeb 12 15:54
sebsebsebfewt: the Ubuntu community has taken mosto f the new usersFeb 12 15:54
fewtbut the staff have reeled it in.Feb 12 15:54
sebsebseband most of the supportp eopleFeb 12 15:54
sebsebsebfewt: Ubuntu does damage to Desktop Linux as a whole, making things much more general, distrowsieFeb 12 15:55
sebsebseband for that it does a lot of damageFeb 12 15:55
sebsebsebideally people should pick their own distro like I did back in 2004Feb 12 15:55
sebsebsebdo reasarch and pick their own, or well yeah in general, but this isn't the case anymore, people just tend to go for the one that is hyped up mostFeb 12 15:55
sebsebsebor the ones that are. so yeah Ubuntu or Mint mainly at the momentFeb 12 15:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Viel Aufregung um nichts? - Das ACTA-Abkommen und seine Folgen - "Wir wollen das Urheberrecht reformieren": yup#Feb 12 15:56
fewtI'd like to see a site that you select some options and it makes a distro recommendationFeb 12 15:56
sebsebsebalso there should be more distros callobaration reallyFeb 12 15:56
fewtI don't have the time to take something on like that thoughFeb 12 15:56
fewtsoyouwantlinux.orgFeb 12 15:56
sebsebsebfewt: well there  is a quiz for that, but I think probably still not that up to dateFeb 12 15:56
sebsebsebLinux distribution chooser quickFeb 12 15:56
sebsebsebquizFeb 12 15:56
fewtIt could feed from distrowatchFeb 12 15:56
fewtbecause all of the necessary data is there and up-to-dateFeb 12 15:57
cubezzzLFS for maximum pain :)Feb 12 15:57
fewthehFeb 12 15:57
sebsebsebfewt: Linux opensource/freesoftwre in general is quiet great :)Feb 12 15:57
sebsebseb,but then of course the legal issues stuff as well, patents etcFeb 12 15:58
cubezzzPortege was a bit disappointing :-/Feb 12 15:58
sebsebsebfewt: Where you from Germany or something?Feb 12 15:58
fewtUSFeb 12 15:58
cubezzzno installer, just a live cdFeb 12 15:58
sebsebsebfewt: yeah for some reason thought Germany for a bit there, but then after I said that saw your host name, charter.comFeb 12 15:58
sebsebsebso yep USFeb 12 15:58
fewtI should probably get a cloak, but mehFeb 12 15:58
cubezzzneed another KDE 3.5.10 distroFeb 12 15:58
sebsebsebfewt: Mageia should sort this outFeb 12 15:59
sebsebsebfewt: the IRC cloaksFeb 12 15:59
fewtcoolFeb 12 15:59
sebsebsebcubezzz: or you could use Trinity in something?Feb 12 15:59
cubezzzDebian Lenny, Vector Linux classic, but nothing new since Portege and it doesn't have an installerFeb 12 15:59
sebsebsebfewt: Gnome 1 just died I guess or soemthing, that was before I used Linux on desktopFeb 12 16:00
sebsebsebfewt: you remember Gnome 1, I expect you do?Feb 12 16:00
sebsebsebcubezzz: what about KDE 2 and 1, what happended to them?Feb 12 16:01
cubezzzKDE 2 and 1 have disappeared from the net as far as I can tellFeb 12 16:01
*sebsebseb isn't old skool enough to remember thoseFeb 12 16:01
*sebsebseb doesn't really consider himself as being old skool when it comes to LInux since started in 2004 not the 90'sFeb 12 16:01
cubezzzLinux itself isn't old school :)Feb 12 16:02
sebsebsebcubezzz: oh really that's sadFeb 12 16:02
cubezzzold school is PDP-8 with OS/8 :)Feb 12 16:02
fewtsebsebseb I remember GNOME 0.x :DFeb 12 16:02
sebsebsebold school is loads of Unix versions yeahFeb 12 16:02
sebsebsebfewt: oh really?Feb 12 16:02
DaemonFC 12 16:02
DaemonFCthis is the impression Novell's Evolution gave me when I attempted to use it as an email clientFeb 12 16:02
fewtwhen RedHat bundled it with enlightenmentFeb 12 16:02
cubezzzsebsebseb, OS/8 is pre-UnixFeb 12 16:02
sebsebsebohFeb 12 16:02
cubezzz1960's Feb 12 16:02
fewtbefore that they shipped fvwm if I remember correctlyFeb 12 16:03
fewtor was that Caldera Linux, man I can't remember back that far anymoreFeb 12 16:03
cubezzz 12 16:04
cubezzzI don't think I ever looked at KDE 1Feb 12 16:06
cubezzzit's not even that old reallyFeb 12 16:06
sebsebsebcubezzz: oh ok thanks :)Feb 12 16:06
sebsebsebfor linkFeb 12 16:06
cubezzzOct 1996 according to wikipediaFeb 12 16:07
sebsebsebohFeb 12 16:07
sebsebseband XFCE is 1996 or whateverFeb 12 16:07
fewtXFCE is that old?Feb 12 16:07
fewtwowFeb 12 16:07
sebsebsebfewt: yep before GnomeFeb 12 16:07
fewtI didn't realize thatFeb 12 16:07
sebsebsebno me either, but then someone said about that hereFeb 12 16:08
sebsebsebwhenever it was nowFeb 12 16:08
sebsebsebacccording to wikipediaFeb 12 16:08
cubezzzI think MWM was pretty earlyFeb 12 16:08
fewtMWM was very earlyFeb 12 16:08
fewtMotifFeb 12 16:08
fewtyeahFeb 12 16:08
fewtI seem to remember FVWM building against the Motif librariesFeb 12 16:09
DaemonFC4dwmFeb 12 16:09
DaemonFCIndigo Magic desktopFeb 12 16:10
cubezzzI still use MotifFeb 12 16:10
fewtniceFeb 12 16:10
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] pro-censorship political parties may dismiss #ACTA concerns as "just kids" but those kids are the next generation of voters; they rememberFeb 12 16:12
cubezzzx11r4 Motif Window Manager goes back to at least 1992, probably earlier Feb 12 16:12
DaemonFCthere's a port of Indigo Magic Desktop for Linux floating around somewhereFeb 12 16:14
DaemonFCit's not exactly open sourceFeb 12 16:14
cubezzzah, there's a google groups post from 1990 about itFeb 12 16:14
fewtI used WindowMaker for yearsFeb 12 16:14
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DaemonFCbut there's source code and you can use it, as long as it's only on x86, x86-64, or ia-64Feb 12 16:14
cubezzzso MWM is pre-Linux :)Feb 12 16:14
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] by ignoring the wishes of the people in favour of secret deals with rich donors, parties are making themselves unelectable in the futureFeb 12 16:14
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Military top brass being protected from cuts, Labour says the elite always look after their own at others expenseFeb 12 16:14
DaemonFC(which is why it's not open source)Feb 12 16:14
DaemonFCthat's actually the one restriction I saw that made that not be open sourceFeb 12 16:14
DaemonFCother than the fact that it depends on MotifFeb 12 16:15
cubezzzHP OSF/Motif on HP 9000 :)Feb 12 16:15
DaemonFCso you'd need a free Motif replacement even if the Indigo desktop port was freeFeb 12 16:15
fewtis that MaXXFeb 12 16:15
DaemonFCwhich neither of them areFeb 12 16:15
DaemonFCbummerFeb 12 16:15
DaemonFCyeahFeb 12 16:15
fewtI had CDE on my HP 125 workstation :DFeb 12 16:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Where are the judges fit for the internet age? 12 16:16
DaemonFCI don't know why CDE was popular, probably because the kind of people who thought CDE was usable thought groupware was goodFeb 12 16:16
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 16:16
fewtor was it 135, wow long time agoFeb 12 16:16
DaemonFCbbiabFeb 12 16:17
cubezzzCDE came later I thinkFeb 12 16:17
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cubezzzI'm not up on my HP historyFeb 12 16:17
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] The bishops love the idea of equality – but not for women or gaysFeb 12 16:17
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fewt725/125 ApolloFeb 12 16:18
fewtthat's what it was, running HPUX 10Feb 12 16:18
fewtAlso had Debian on it for a whileFeb 12 16:19
fewt:DFeb 12 16:19
cubezzzwho/what created MWM though?Feb 12 16:19
fewtI don't remember :/Feb 12 16:20
fewt 12 16:20
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] We lose free speech at our peril savage? fictional? bullshitters? vindictive? liars? yep, many descriptionsFeb 12 16:21
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] journalist proudly admits she lies about her profession at parties knowing "journalist" would cause issues with folks wanting privacyFeb 12 16:22
cubezzzthere was some primitive window manager in 1984Feb 12 16:23
fewtWell before my time. :DFeb 12 16:23
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] while at the same time bemoaning the reputation journalists in general have with people as many things, including lying - YOU'RE ONE OF EMFeb 12 16:24
cubezzzI remember Waterloo had sun4's and some version of XFeb 12 16:28
cubezzzthis was in the late 1980's Feb 12 16:28
cubezzzso whatever SunOS was running...Feb 12 16:28
cubezzzah, NeWSFeb 12 16:29
cubezzzand of course NeWS diedFeb 12 16:30
cubezzzok, TWM appears Dec 1989Feb 12 16:30
cubezzzI guess it's the oldest :)Feb 12 16:31
fewtTWM, that makes senseFeb 12 16:31
cubezzzyeah, with X11R4Feb 12 16:31
cubezzzbut I only remember NeWS from that time periodFeb 12 16:31
fewtFunny enough, twm is in my repoFeb 12 16:32
fewtbecause it's part of xorg, probably in everyone's repoFeb 12 16:32
cubezzztwm can live again :)Feb 12 16:32
cubezzzactually it predates X11R4, and goes all the way back to X11R1Feb 12 16:33
cubezzzwe have a winner, uwm was the very firstFeb 12 16:36
cubezzzI actually run Ultrix 4.0 and 4.5 through the magic of emulationFeb 12 16:38
cubezzzok, enough boring history for todayFeb 12 16:38
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt embroiled in oil deals, imprisonment of journalists #svpol 12 16:51
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[pietercolpaert/@pietercolpaert] RT @ pietercolpaert: RT @rcallewaert: 1 van de vele slides van #ia2012gent -> Wat komen mensen zoeken op gemeentelijke we http://ur1. ...Feb 12 17:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] RT @carwinb: Department of Justice Secret Order faxed to @twitter same day Julian #Assange is granted bail Dec 14, 2010 12 17:21
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] "We've brought no action against #Assange we'll have to see how it plays out in British courts" US Ambassador to UK 12 17:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[torproject/@torproject] Our progress report for January 2012 is now available on 12 17:32
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] @evan seems reasonable for me to present in threaded context indication that a user deleted a noticeFeb 12 18:04
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DaemonFCso Ubuntu applies a patch to fix Amarok's context paneFeb 12 18:10
DaemonFCand not only does the patch not fix it, it breaks it moreFeb 12 18:11
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Inspired? Copied? Or insider joke? You decide :-) 12 18:19
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] #justsayin :-) 12 18:29
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[aseigo/@aseigo] will be live with Linux Action Show people shortly (edited show released later). join us live -> 12 18:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[aseigo/@aseigo] awesome .. LAS guys raving about KDE Plasma Desktop 4.8 :) showed @afiesta's screencast of app menu in krunner too. neat.Feb 12 18:52
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] 3D printing with my eMaker Huxley. Now with layers of .2 mm, half of what I used before. Yay! 12 18:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] RT @x11r5 @laurelrusswurm Have you tried piping 1.21 gigawatts into the park to do fine on the wisconsin sideline?Feb 12 18:57
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #ACTA bedroht Zugang zu Medikamenten - so says Aktionsbündnis gegen #AIDS (v @netzpolitik)Feb 12 19:00
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] RT @jra Bradley at the Software Freedom Conservancy explains GPL enforcement: 12 19:20
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] Sweden's & Carl Bildt's oil deals with Gaddafi | Expressen 12 19:20
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] Satul Regal de la Săvârșin, acoperit de zăpadă #romania #tourism #royal #monarchy #photo #savarsin #aradFeb 12 19:30
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] New book exposes Swedish foreign minister's role in Sudanese blood for oil | SVD 12 19:30
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jankusanagi/@jankusanagi] RT @apoisel Aaron Seigo is live on the Linux Action Show !KDEFeb 12 19:38
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[mrdenticator/@mrdenticator] Yesterday top #statustician is laurelrusswurm from with 74 dents!Feb 12 19:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eff/@eff] More on the protests against #ACTA - some great photos from Germany: 12 20:02
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[aseigo/@aseigo] LAS recording done .. the editted version will appear at 20:00 PST on 12 20:05
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[aseigo/@aseigo] you should watch the edited version when its out so you can do a little dance when your screencast comes up. they loved the hud-alike :)Feb 12 20:07
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] Mesajul Regelui Mihai la înmormântarea lui Corneliu Coposu #romania #coposu #rege #video #revolutieFeb 12 20:20
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] New Blog Post | On #LuisSuarez #mufc #lfc #fb !footballFeb 12 20:41
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] The new anti-science assault on US schools 12 20:53
DaemonFC!OpenDocumentFeb 12 21:06
DaemonFCand it only took them 22 yearsFeb 12 21:06
DaemonFCafter asking the polluters where to set the limitsFeb 12 21:06
DaemonFC:)Feb 12 21:06
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] All-IP Network Produces $100B Real Estate Windfall n more #BandwidthThrottling #Trafficshaping respect 4 #netneutrality?Feb 12 21:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] Some things you may have heard about #secureboot which aren't entirely true by Matthew #Garrett 12 22:00
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] The Android client for #diaspora has started working for me since the last version!Feb 12 22:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] @Fontana glad to have shaken hands with you in a very brief first encounter after @dneary's talk in FOSDEM. Neck bearded dude with glasses.Feb 12 22:03
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] RT @fontana Some things you may have heard about #secureboot which aren't entirely true by Matthew #Garrett 12 22:05
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] Pentagon's twitter rape campaign against #WikiLeaks: tweets include "...Julian #Assange collateral rapist" 12 22:11
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] Protest împotriva tratatului ACTA #romania #internet #web #copyright #censorshipFeb 12 22:18
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] Microsoft Store hacked in India, passwords stored in plain text #microsoft #software #security #indiaFeb 12 22:20
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] pair of bastards lolFeb 12 22:21
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] Monarhia unește România! #romania #pnl #monarchy #royal #revolutieFeb 12 22:21
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] Secret documents lift lid on mutiny by US troops in Australia | ABC 12 22:33
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rsandu/@rsandu] Iran cuts off access to popular Web sites #iran #internet #web #censorshipFeb 12 22:40
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[wikileaks2/@wikileaks2] According to google, there are over 6M references to Assange and "charges" despite the fact there are no charges. #MSMmoronsFeb 12 22:40
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] #Guardian still promoting #copyright infringement look at who uploaded the videosFeb 12 22:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] karan33774 even TELLS the #Guardian it's not the rightsholder, but they still use it anyway #copyright infringementFeb 12 22:50
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laf0rge/@laf0rge] configuring #netfilter ulogd2 for the first time in probably 5 years. Feels like a previous life...Feb 12 22:50
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] the #Guardian have so far ignored my email for a response to my blog post about this, more infringement promotion sinceFeb 12 22:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ovigia/@ovigia] Tight Connection To My Heart (Has Anyone Seen My Love) - YouTube #musicFeb 12 22:55
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] given 3 of the 5 seem to be legit, they appear to have at least tried not to infringe, shame it's half arsed & they think they can get awayFeb 12 22:55
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] it seems my post has been read, they never used to even go as far as to try before #Guardian or just coincidence?Feb 12 22:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] the message from the #Guardian seems to be "we don't give a shit about your copyrights, so treat ours with equal contempt"Feb 12 22:58
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rysiek/@rysiek] ♻ @abixadamj: #MAC ogłosił coś: - teraz niech wszyscy zainteresowani !ACTA to przeczytają - może być ciekawie.Feb 12 23:03
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] keep the #Guardian's respect for others #copyrights in mind when you read an article of their complaining of infringementFeb 12 23:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] isomniaFeb 12 23:28
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] damn it feels good to be saved.Feb 12 23:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[serk01/@serk01] το identica δε μου τα λεει καλα ωρες ωρεςFeb 12 23:33
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[stumbles/@stumbles] RT @ilovefs !FSFE 's goal for February 14th: More love reports than bug reports! #ilovefs With examples how you can ...Feb 12 23:35
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] RT @LozKaye Hollande sur #ACTA: "Nous ... appelons au refus de sa ratification par le Parlement Européen." via @PartiPirate >>niceFeb 12 23:38
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] archive sections of news sites should be called olds #justsayinFeb 12 23:43
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] who?Feb 12 23:43
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] I wouldn't hurt a fly...Feb 12 23:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[fontana/@fontana] RT @mlinksva Other !FOSDEM 2012 post 12 23:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] or maybe you want: "the socialist French presidential candidate asks European Parliament not to ratify ACTA"Feb 12 23:48
MinceRgnFeb 12 23:52
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