Join us now at the IRC channel.
| *abeNd-org (~KKlenke@76.0.118.206) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 28 00:01 | |
| abeNd-org | yay for purplehome variable | Jun 28 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/07/fbi_spyware | Jun 28 00:10 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: FBI's Secret Spyware Tracks Down Teen Who Made Bomb Threats .::. Size~: 50.52 KB | Jun 28 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Look who wrote it | Jun 28 00:10 |
| schestowitz | FBI apologist | Jun 28 00:10 |
| schestowitz | Kevin Poulsen | Jun 28 00:11 |
| schestowitz | and this http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/07/fbi-spyware-how/ | Jun 28 00:13 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: FBI Spyware: How Does the CIPAV Work? -- UPDATE | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 56.75 KB | Jun 28 00:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | lol, yeah | Jun 28 00:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | great white twaitor hunter | Jun 28 00:13 |
| schestowitz | don't diss CIPAV | Jun 28 00:14 |
| schestowitz | It's cybercrime by FBI | Jun 28 00:14 |
| schestowitz | But it doesn't stop bombs | Jun 28 00:14 |
| schestowitz | it stops threats | Jun 28 00:14 |
| schestowitz | fight CIPAV, then you advocate bombing | Jun 28 00:14 |
| schestowitz | see my latest tweets | Jun 28 00:14 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: Poulsen, who helped arrest/kill Bradley Manning&refuses2provide proof http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/12/greenwald/ , provides CIPAV="against terror" PR http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2007/07/fbi_spyware | Jun 28 01:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Putting the Record Straight on the Lamo-Manning Chat Logs | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 76.11 KB | Jun 28 01:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: FBI's Secret Spyware Tracks Down Teen Who Made Bomb Threats .::. Size~: 50.52 KB | Jun 28 01:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: yes, i know who he is :) | Jun 28 01:17 |
| schestowitz | see my latest tweets, you might like them | Jun 28 01:21 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1751718 | Jun 28 01:41 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Causes of death  About 'Terrorism' ![exc. military] (http://www.globalcomplexity.org/Terrorism Trends 1981-2001.jpg) | Jun 28 01:41 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: WordPress.com .::. Size~: 0.83 KB | Jun 28 01:41 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0.31 KB | Jun 28 01:41 |
| schestowitz | "but only the """"war on terror"""" serves as excuse for lots of outrageous things... ¬¬" | Jun 28 01:41 |
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| *XFaCE (XFaCE@unaffiliated/xface) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 28 03:50 | |
| *abeNd-org has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | Jun 28 06:23 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1751639 | Jun 28 06:59 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: My main Web host (~12 sites) has removed #WordPress from list of installation scripts (under cpanel); Drupal not there either.Lame decision. | Jun 28 06:59 |
| schestowitz | "very lame" | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752383 | Jun 28 07:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Malware is bad ("mal"), except when made and spread by the good folks at the White House & Allies http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/06/04/tech-stuxnet-obama-sanger-book.html?cmp=rss when mal means good | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 07:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Stuxnet part of Obama's broader cyberattack plan, book alleges - World - CBC News .::. Size~: 47.99 KB | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | This is the hypocrisy that galls me. If anybody else even looks at doing it, it's a declaration of war. | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/pentagondeclarescyberattackanactofwar.php | Jun 28 07:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: ReadWriteWeb: Page Not Found .::. Size~: 32.71 KB | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752394 | Jun 28 07:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Obama administration is proposing new legislation... direct access to all forms of digital communication" http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/obama-administration.html | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 07:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Obama administration wants encryption backdoors for domestic surveillance - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 35.97 KB | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | That 'direct access' will be limited. | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | The American voters will allow it to happen, as they have with everything else and will continue to do so, but everybody else's personal data goes through servers on U.S. soil and we don't even get the chance to vote. | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 07:00 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752394 | Jun 28 07:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Obama administration is proposing new legislation... direct access to all forms of digital communication" http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/obama-administration.html | Jun 28 07:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Obama administration wants encryption backdoors for domestic surveillance - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 35.99 KB | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | What the U.S. voter should be pushing for, is completely open government communication, for the U.S. public. | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | You have that right. You employ them and are entitled to know what they are up to every minute of your time. | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752547 | Jun 28 07:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a Diaspora post? | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | "Yes, he was continually in Maggie Thatcher's ear, also." | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752554 | Jun 28 07:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "FBI made...bedroom recordings and mailed it to King along with a threatening letter urging King to commit suicide" http://www.examiner.com/article/martin-luther-king-s-fbi-sex-tape-revisited-part-two-of-two | Jun 28 07:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Martin Luther King's FBI sex tape revisited, Part Two of Two - Boston Progressive | Examiner.com .::. Size~: 72.04 KB | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | "They kill Presidents, don't they?" | Jun 28 07:01 |
| schestowitz | Usually in foreign countries, e.g. the CIA in S.America | Jun 28 07:02 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752394 | Jun 28 07:02 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Obama administration is proposing new legislation... direct access to all forms of digital communication" http://boingboing.net/2010/09/27/obama-administration.html | Jun 28 07:02 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Obama administration wants encryption backdoors for domestic surveillance - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 35.99 KB | Jun 28 07:02 |
| schestowitz | "Weaver so true. We need Open Source Government." | Jun 28 07:02 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/94976734 | Jun 28 07:04 |
| TechrightsSocial | @Sindhu Kurnia (jawaica)'s status on Thursday, 28-Jun-12 04:04:56 UTC - Identi.ca: That is scary! | Jun 28 07:04 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/94978029 | Jun 28 07:04 |
| TechrightsSocial | @strangelove's status on Thursday, 28-Jun-12 05:25:59 UTC - Identi.ca: Here, here! *Thumbs Up* | Jun 28 07:04 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 | Jun 28 07:12 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 07:12 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 212.1 KB | Jun 28 07:12 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: ah, finally | Jun 28 07:12 |
| schestowitz | Making the barbaric rituals illegal | Jun 28 07:12 |
| schestowitz | "#Circumcision is a tribalism tattoo imposed upon the young. It's worse than tattoo, cannot be undone. Germany first to ban barbaric rituals." -me | Jun 28 07:20 |
| MinceR | cue worldwide whining from barbaric religious zealots | Jun 28 07:23 |
| schestowitz | "It's rather shocking that while clergymen who touch children's penis (even one) go to jail (sometimes) those who chop off thousands don't." | Jun 28 07:24 |
| MinceR | some of those not only chop it off but also suck blood from it | Jun 28 07:37 |
| schestowitz | who does? | Jun 28 07:41 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 | Jun 28 07:43 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 07:43 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 211.72 KB | Jun 28 07:43 |
| schestowitz | "The jewish community won't change their mind about corcumcision couse of this decision. Now the children are circumcised by someone who is not a doctor. And this, i think, causes a lot more poain and health risk to children. This court decision doesnt help the children anyway." | Jun 28 07:43 |
| schestowitz | Religions are generally terrified of sex and genitalia; cutting and castrating are not acceptable practices, no matter how "normalised" they become. AFAIK, doctors never did these procedures anyway, and there's a mortality risk associated with it, no matter what the mutilation apologists say. | Jun 28 07:44 |
| schestowitz | "Aaaaand let the religious flamewar on foreskin chopping begin!" | Jun 28 07:45 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Jun 28 07:45 |
| schestowitz | "I'd call the culture that mutilates their baby boys and on top of that tells them to not eat bacon as barbaric." | Jun 28 07:46 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Metzitzah_b%27peh#Suction.2C_metzitzah_technique | Jun 28 07:47 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Brit milah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 172.51 KB | Jun 28 07:47 |
| MinceR | http://www.cracked.com/article_19180_if-classic-fables-actually-told-truth-5Bcomic5D.html | Jun 28 07:55 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: If Classic Fables Actually Told the Truth [COMIC] | Cracked.com .::. Size~: 56.33 KB | Jun 28 07:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx_ov2NiNo4 | Jun 28 07:57 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Christopher Hitchens Goes After Rabbi Harold Kushner re: Circumcision - YouTube .::. Size~: 154.67 KB | Jun 28 07:57 |
| schestowitz | "Who's watching the watchers? Everyone, of course. I imagine that Microsoft's offices are filled with spooks from every nation." https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752477 | Jun 28 07:59 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "Reports: alleged 12th Russian spy worked at Microsoft" http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2010/07/reports_12th_russian_spy_worked_at_microsoft.html | Jun 28 07:59 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Reports: alleged 12th Russian spy worked at Microsoft - Puget Sound Business Journal .::. Size~: 90.98 KB | Jun 28 07:59 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | I think this story does dual duty. To cover Microsoft from accusations of collusion and to FUD free software. Surely, honest Bill would never sell out his customers? LOL. | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | The free software FUD is implied but often used by non free software advocates. "How do you know your free software does not contain malware? If Microsoft can be infiltrated, Debian is a cake walk," they question and assert. This is a stupid argument for several reasons. | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | Non free code receives little or no oversight and is impossible to repair. Only a few people are responsible for it because they can't afford more. Once it's in the can, no one can fix it. | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | You can do everything you do to guard yourself against non free software problems and then some. There's nothing keeping people from running snake oil AV on free software besides the superior effectiveness of community oversight. | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | Free software may be risky but non free software is known bad. When you use non free software, you must blindly trust the owner. | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 08:03 |
| schestowitz | Olympics Website Leans on Open Source, Akamai for Winning Results http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9228542/Olympics_Website_Leans_on_Open_Source_Akamai_for_Winning_Results#opensource | Jun 28 08:06 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Olympics Website Leans on Open Source, Akamai for Winning Results - Computerworld .::. Size~: 140.01 KB | Jun 28 08:06 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 "Good decision by the court. Freedom of religion is a great thing to legitimate any crap and ignore any other argument it seems. Just as Shmerl demonstrates it. I could claim to be a member of the maya religion and insist to have human sacrifice. I mean my god said so. Please, we are in the 21. century!..... When anybody really needs this, he can choose to do it when he is an adult." | Jun 28 08:09 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 08:09 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 211.74 KB | Jun 28 08:09 |
| schestowitz | "Let's phrase this another way: it's a law banning elective/cosmetic surgery on infants. How is this a bad thing? Would a claim of right to religious freedom extend to cultures that perform other types of mutilation on infants? Or female circumcision?" | Jun 28 08:10 |
| schestowitz | I've never heard of *cosmetic* surgery being done on babies without their consent, unless it was intended to save their life. | Jun 28 08:11 |
| schestowitz | what's troubling about the article is that it frames this as only a protest, failing perhaps to emphasise the fact that those most worried about the practice might in fact be its victims, not the dogmatic zealots who cause an outcry about a sane, civilised ruling. | Jun 28 08:13 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1751644 | Jun 28 08:18 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Many people underestimate the hate generated when drone bombs wedding, maiming and breaking to pieces women & children, to counter 'terror'. | Jun 28 08:18 |
| schestowitz | "I think they mostly underestimate our desire to know." | Jun 28 08:18 |
| schestowitz | "and overestimate their ability to hide the facts." | Jun 28 08:20 |
| schestowitz | As Collateral Murder shows, not to mention the Iraq War Log and such efforts | Jun 28 08:20 |
| schestowitz | "everyone will agree that circumcision on boys is something completely different from circumcision on girls. Men, who are correctly circumcised, don't have any problems at sex. Another point of view: the case was triggered by a mother who brought her child to hospital cause of complications after circumcision. Now, no mother can bring her child to hospital because she has to fear prosecution. As consequence, there will be | Jun 28 08:31 |
| schestowitz | children with complications not treated. That could be really worse for them." | Jun 28 08:31 |
| schestowitz | haha | Jun 28 08:35 |
| MinceR | http://narf-archive.com/pix/ca9f96e8b886f19f09a8bd8777c668abafd6c7ec.jpg | Jun 28 09:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 28 09:49 |
| schestowitz | What a flawed argument. It's saying that somebody will break the law (mutilating children, I hope the authorities will hunt them down) and because somebody might break the law the mutilation should carry on; to use an equivalent, it's like saying we should legalise homicide because if we don't, people will do so in secrecy. Does. Not. Compute. | Jun 28 10:19 |
| schestowitz | Apologist: "You have no idea about Judaism, isn't it? So the remark above is totally off point. Also, Moritz Kemp pointed out right - practicing Jews will ignore this law anyway. The only thing it will achieve - to cause conflict and animosity." | Jun 28 10:20 |
| schestowitz | "@Moritz: Maybe it does not pysically effect sex, but this procedure can lead to trauma, which surely effects sex. ;-)" | Jun 28 10:20 |
| schestowitz | "I think, the point why religions insist of those practices on minors, is that they want to link them as strong as possible. They want to avoid any doubts and that works best, when indoctrinating people when they are as young as possible. Basically that's a form of child abuse. All monotheist religions do that, and that's a shame." | Jun 28 10:21 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision#Sexual_effects | Jun 28 10:21 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Circumcision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 465.01 KB | Jun 28 10:21 |
| MinceR | http://www.reddit.com/tb/vq00u | Jun 28 10:22 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: This ATM speaks Cockney. via reddit.com .::. Size~: 1.64 KB | Jun 28 10:22 |
| schestowitz | If religions wanted to "mark" their kids using bracelets, that would be less injurirous but still unjust since kids are never born religious (their parents, however, might be). To think that the state turns a blind to these tribal practices and desert dogma makes me wonder if I can start a so-called "religion" that cuts the thumbs of all the newly-born and the state should ACK it based on the claim of "religious tolerance" ( | Jun 28 10:25 |
| schestowitz | the guilt trick). | Jun 28 10:25 |
| *formic_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | Jun 28 11:46 | |
| *formic_ (~formic_@bas8-hamilton14-2925006198.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 28 11:54 | |
| MinceR | https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/425027_10151067940670351_998580200_n.jpg | Jun 28 13:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Jun 28 13:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: there is no health argument for circumcision. I'm glad they banned it. Tribes can suck it up. | Jun 28 13:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's time they worked out they live in a modern world | Jun 28 13:11 |
| MinceR | agreed | Jun 28 13:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | in fact the kvetching about it is what is offensive | Jun 28 13:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | i did the deep dive on circumcision last year when a friend had a son. | Jun 28 13:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | he questioned whether he should or not. he did. the social pressure to do so won out. | Jun 28 13:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | it was very interesting to see how they forced him to do it. | Jun 28 13:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | it reveals the true purpose of it | Jun 28 13:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | and its utter irrelevance | Jun 28 13:13 |
| schestowitz | [13:11] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: there is no health argument for circumcision. I'm glad they banned it. Tribes can suck it up. | Jun 28 13:20 |
| schestowitz | pun untended? | Jun 28 13:20 |
| MinceR | :> | Jun 28 13:20 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: I emailed someone who was circumscised to see his opinion | Jun 28 13:20 |
| schestowitz | Turns out, the apologists leave out the fact that even among those who were forced to have it done there is disagreement also | Jun 28 13:21 |
| schestowitz | but they're discouraged from talking, for obvious reasons | Jun 28 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Ask 'Muslim' girls who lost their clip.. | Jun 28 13:21 |
| schestowitz | *clit | Jun 28 13:21 |
| schestowitz | and are not at threat of apostasy or such.. | Jun 28 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Anyway.. People ask pedagogues and nobody thinks about really getting the opinion or those affected | Jun 28 13:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: right. i/we spent hours studying the whole question. | Jun 28 13:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: conclusion-- nothing but a tribal ritual where a kid is given a permanent tribal mark without his consent. | Jun 28 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Watch this | Jun 28 13:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx_ov2NiNo4 | Jun 28 13:23 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Christopher Hitchens Goes After Rabbi Harold Kushner re: Circumcision - YouTube .::. Size~: 157.9 KB | Jun 28 13:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: no different from a tattoo, except it happens younger | Jun 28 13:23 |
| schestowitz | if you speak out against it, you get called racist | Jun 28 13:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's a gang mark. "You cannot ever leave this tribe, it's part of your body" | Jun 28 13:23 |
| schestowitz | islamophob or anti-Semite | Jun 28 13:24 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 28 13:26:36 2012 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 28 13:26 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell-social for http://TechRights.org | Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell | Jun 28 13:26 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:20:14 2010 | Jun 28 13:26 | |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: we found out about the whole industry around 'restoring the foreskin'. and indeed we found much disagreement among those who 'had it done'. | Jun 28 13:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | but there is a bottom line | Jun 28 13:27 |
| schestowitz | <FurnaceBoy> right. and all that crap is unacceptable too. | Jun 28 13:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | and that is that no, you can't cut up babies without their consent. let them opt in when they turn adult. | Jun 28 13:28 |
| schestowitz | <FurnaceBoy> he faced various kinds of threats from relatives, basically even in 'judaism lite,' pork-eating jews, it remains mandatory to do this. all thier other laws can be broken, except this one. that is very telling. | Jun 28 13:28 |
| schestowitz | * pidgin_log has quit (Read error: No route to host) | Jun 28 13:28 |
| schestowitz | <FurnaceBoy> it reveals the procedure for what it is | Jun 28 13:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: it reveals the purpose of the procedure | Jun 28 13:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: which is tribal binding, nothing more, nothign less. the lack of choice is part of it. | Jun 28 13:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: an essential part. | Jun 28 13:28 |
| schestowitz | If the person is so-called "Muslim" (not in DNA) or Semite, then it's being dealt with social pressure | Jun 28 13:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: once you give the kid a choice about it, the tribal mark loses its purposes | Jun 28 13:28 |
| schestowitz | (first PSU failure in over a week] | Jun 28 13:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | forcing them to do it without question is the point, for the tribe. | Jun 28 13:29 |
| MinceR | humans are apparently sacred until they're born. after that moment, they're fair game for mutilation and expendable. | Jun 28 13:29 |
| schestowitz | assimilation thing too | Jun 28 13:30 |
| schestowitz | have one generation miss it | Jun 28 13:30 |
| schestowitz | like women and babies | Jun 28 13:30 |
| schestowitz | and then they are not compelled to pass on this desert barbarism | Jun 28 13:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: yep | Jun 28 13:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: that's the thing. the tribe knows that any kind of choice is the problem.t hat's why they threaten | Jun 28 13:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | funny how all the whining boils down to "we're special and shouldn't have to follow laws" | Jun 28 13:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | where have we heard that before??? | Jun 28 13:34 |
| MinceR | from another type of cult: megacorporations | Jun 28 13:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes; also USA Terror, Inc. | Jun 28 13:37 |
| schestowitz | anyway, I reckon the response will be to accuse Germany of "Nazism" or something | Jun 28 13:41 |
| schestowitz | To prevent civilised law from being spread to more countries | Jun 28 13:41 |
| schestowitz | I cannot think of any equivalent x-ian practice that should be banned to show equality | Jun 28 13:41 |
| schestowitz | equakl treatment | Jun 28 13:41 |
| schestowitz | except pedophelia, which actually leaves less of a mark on the child, only psychological, not both psychological and physical | Jun 28 13:42 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1753675 | Jun 28 13:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: <br> [  ](http://tinyurl.com/6v9wkvt) <br>#gif <br><sub> - [via Diaspora* Publisher](http://goo.gl/tmeFB) -</sub> | Jun 28 13:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting application/xml type | Jun 28 13:49 |
| schestowitz | "Dramatic cat? :-)" | Jun 28 13:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: FinoFilipino.com | Tu blog de humor y cada día el de más gente .::. Size~: 34.01 KB | Jun 28 13:49 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Chrome Web Store - Diaspora* Publisher .::. Size~: 25.94 KB | Jun 28 13:49 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 | Jun 28 14:56 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 14:56 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 210.77 KB | Jun 28 14:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 14:56 |
| schestowitz | > I think, the point why religions insist of those practices on minors, is that they want to link them as strong as possible. | Jun 28 14:56 |
| schestowitz | @Johannes Reichard : Whether that achieves that or not is a separate question. But you mix the logic (the reason and the cause). The reason it's done is because it's a commandment however. | Jun 28 14:56 |
| schestowitz | > state turns a blind to these tribal practices and desert dogma | Jun 28 14:56 |
| schestowitz | Proponents of the total state control were well known during the history. | Jun 28 14:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Jun 28 14:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 14:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's that old thing... "our tribe is under threat111!!!!!!!!1!!!1!!!!!!!!" | Jun 28 14:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | wake up, it's 2012 | Jun 28 14:57 |
| schestowitz | AFAIK, it's not a commandment at all and whoever wrote those so-called "commandment" was a tribal desert barbarian who sacrifices thing to Space. It's time to man up and grow up. | Jun 28 14:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | cutting up babies needs to disappear | Jun 28 14:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | let them do it themselves when they turn 21 | Jun 28 14:57 |
| schestowitz | We grew up t the point of ignoring most of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments so why resort to such raving lunacy onlywhen it suits one's agenda (even if it's not included in those lists at all)? When it's "right", it's genius; when wrong, it's "just a metaphor"; when barbaric, it's "God's will" (says a lot about this blood-thirsty 'God'). | Jun 28 15:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Ten Commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 250.59 KB | Jun 28 15:01 |
| schestowitz | "I'd recommend you to review the issue before discussing it. Otherwise it's dilettantic." | Jun 28 15:02 |
| schestowitz | Is that a counter argument at all? | Jun 28 15:02 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 15:04 |
| schestowitz | It's one of the 613 commandments: http://en. | Jun 28 15:04 |
| schestowitz | wikipedia | Jun 28 15:04 |
| schestowitz | .org/wiki/613_commandments | Jun 28 15:04 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 15:04 |
| schestowitz | "Not to lend with interest" | Jun 28 15:05 |
| schestowitz | Wall Street must be going to Hell then | Jun 28 15:05 |
| schestowitz | "To burn a city that has turned to idol worship" | Jun 28 15:06 |
| schestowitz | Try that in Germany... | Jun 28 15:06 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 15:07 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure whom you imply by "us". 10 commandments aren't even all universal, since some of them (like keeping the Shabbos) are Jewish only, and aren't address to all people. 613 commandments are Jewish specifically either. Universal commandments for humanity are 7, and circumcision is not one of them: | Jun 28 15:07 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_laws | Jun 28 15:07 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Noahide laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 128.96 KB | Jun 28 15:07 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 15:07 |
| MinceR | i'd rather not have a non-existent person "command" me to anything | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | "Those who think they can dictate such things to others are simply oppressive." | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Did you miss the point that those parants dictating their boys need to get circumzized are the simply oppressive dictators, violating the human rights of a new born baby? | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | I am moe than happy with the result that those archiaic barbaric methods will get punished by law in the future. | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | In my eyes a decision that was overdue! Non-therapeutic circumcision is illegal from now on! And I give a shit on wether religious groups or the Central Council of Jews in Germany are outraged after German court rules... | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 15:08 |
| schestowitz | "That's demagogy. Parents have direct responsibility over their children." | Jun 28 15:09 |
| schestowitz | So how about not butchering them? | Jun 28 15:09 |
| schestowitz | "As I said, that court ruling will be simply ignored, only causing public opposition. Those who passed aren't just not wise. They are stupid." | Jun 28 15:10 |
| schestowitz | "Stupid" is the new humane then | Jun 28 15:10 |
| schestowitz | "You mean to be familiar with the subject when debating it? It's not an argument, it's a prerequisite. If you debate about something being totally uneducated in the matter, such debate can't possibly be taken seriously." | Jun 28 15:11 |
| MinceR | next round of "law doesn't apply to me because religion" | Jun 28 15:11 |
| schestowitz | That argument which cites commands to burn down cities is a very, very weak one. By that argument, one might as well fight for the right to burn cities in Germany for idol worship, based on those "commandments" (and many more unbelievably crazy commandments exist there) | Jun 28 15:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Parents have direct responsibility over their children." | Jun 28 15:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | nope. only within applicable law. | Jun 28 15:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | parents are bound by as many laws as anyone else. | Jun 28 15:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | and laws like this are long overdue | Jun 28 15:15 |
| schestowitz | covering one's eyes :-) | Jun 28 15:16 |
| schestowitz | "Did you see any commandment to burn down modern cities? I didn't. Of course if you make up your own, you can be puzzled with the results, but then why ask others about it." | Jun 28 15:16 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 | Jun 28 15:23 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 15:23 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 210.4 KB | Jun 28 15:23 |
| schestowitz | "That's talking about specific idols / cities of Knaan. Non existent and not applicable. It also denotes that those were given a way to quit cruel human sacrifices and etc. It's only talking about those who didn't care. Again - it's a specific historic case." | Jun 28 15:23 |
| schestowitz | And therein lies the problem. It's out of date, unfit and incompatible with today's human rights, and it should therefore be put in the garbage can where it belongs. We are a much better informed society these days. We don't need desert dogma to help conduct lives. | Jun 28 15:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | +1 | Jun 28 15:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's not as if it's only an idea | Jun 28 15:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | it is harming a very small child in a medically and morally indefensible way | Jun 28 15:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | utterly uncivilised | Jun 28 15:26 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jun 28 15:38:01 2012 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Jun 28 15:38 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell-social for http://TechRights.org | Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell | Jun 28 15:38 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:20:14 2010 | Jun 28 15:38 | |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | *"very religions practice" | Jun 28 16:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | I see, so we can restart burning witches too? Christians have a long tradition doing this, starting as early as 1200 p.c. maybe. | Jun 28 16:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 219.65 KB | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Stoning isn't a problem aymore as it is a "religious practice" in some islamistic countries too, habing a long tradition? Maybe you can circumcise babies in an "exclusive jewish state" or muslim state, germany is a secular state and I am fine it is. | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | The German court should be applauded for standing up for the human rights of baby boys. **The fact that circumcision is an old tradition does not make it less barbaric. | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | *"very religions practice" | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | I see, so we can restart burning witches too? Christians have a long tradition doing this, starting as early as 1200 p.c. maybe. | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Stoning isn't a problem aymore as it is a "religious practice" in some islamistic countries too, habing a long tradition? Maybe you can circumcise babies in an "exclusive jewish state" or muslim state, germany is a secular state and I am fine it is. | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | The German court should be applauded for standing up for the human rights of baby boys. **The fact that circumcision is an old tradition does not make it less barbaric." | Jun 28 16:25 |
| schestowitz | LOL wak apologism | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | "It's context related. There are such commandments (given for specific case, like for example laws of the king). I.e. applicable only in specific cases (i.e. when king is around). Others aren't context related, i.e. always applicable. It has nothing to do with being "out of date". It's rather a conditional application." | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | "@Adrenalin: Burning witches was a social cruelty and form of subjugation, rather than a religious practice. Stoning as a capital punishment? You should address those who practice is.. Shariat in general is power oriented, and focused on social control, which results in cruelty. Sufis for example aren't holding of it.\[ | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Why even debate with Creationists? I'\s so pointless... | Jun 28 16:26 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1753978 | Jun 28 16:29 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: GNU is not Ubuntu. And it wasn't created by Ubuntus Torvalds. | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | my sense of humour :-) | Jun 28 16:29 |
| schestowitz | not comprehended sometimes... | Jun 28 16:30 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/06/why-is-nobody-listening-to-jimmy-carters-searing-critique-of-america/259031/ | Jun 28 16:34 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Politics - Conor Friedersdorf - Why Is Nobody Listening to Jimmy Carter's Searing Critique of America? - The Atlantic .::. Size~: 115.67 KB | Jun 28 16:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: lol, yeah | Jun 28 16:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: here's why maybe? http://www.quora.com/Human-Rights/How-alarmed-should-Americans-be-when-former-President-Jimmy-Carter-a-recipient-of-the-Nobel-Peace-Prize-writes-an-editorial-in-the-New-York-Times-referring-to-Americas-shameful-human-rights-record-and-saying-the-United-States-is-abandoning-its-role-as-the-global-champion-of-human-rights/answer/Toby-Thain | Jun 28 16:35 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Toby Thain's answer to Human Rights: How alarmed should Americans be when former President Jimmy Carter, a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, writes an editorial in the New York Times referring to "America's shameful human rights record" and saying "the United States is abandoning its role as the global champion of human rights"? - Quora .::. Size~: 42.03 KB | Jun 28 16:35 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1753403 | Jun 28 17:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: miracle drug  #nazis #marijuana | Jun 28 17:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting application/xml type | Jun 28 17:01 |
| schestowitz | "Later they'll discover crack and become Stalinist." | Jun 28 17:01 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1754254 | Jun 28 17:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | @jargon@joindiaspora.com:  [Source](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/26/1103368/-The-One-Comic-That-Explains-Just-How-Screwed-America-Is) #occupy #ows #anarchy #anarchism #fauxbama #obama #dontvote | Jun 28 17:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0.17 KB | Jun 28 17:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Daily Kos: The One Comic That Explains Just How Screwed America Is .::. Size~: 297.53 KB | Jun 28 17:01 |
| schestowitz | "@Shmerl, its frustrating and a bit scary that you refuse to see this as mutilation of children and keep on pressing that the verdict was oppressive and authotarian. You fail to understand that your argument of religious freedom was dismisses in the court as the safety and rights of the kids were thought to be more important. You may want to keep on saying how this is just another attempt to destroy jews traditions but do | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | notice that the judges and the people here doesnt see it like that. We see mutilated kids. You fail to see this fact of your tradition and to me its frustrating and scary. Do tell me a good reason why you should be able cut your childrens foreskin off and we'll talk about it but for now this is not going anywhere as your debating about your supposed right to harm kids from religious point of view. Yu could start by admitting | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | that the practise is "mutilation of defeceless children" and then then try to justify this bronze age tradition that rest of us has grown out of." | Jun 28 17:47 |
| schestowitz | "And I'd say it's scary that Germany is turning into oppressive state. Anarchists in general should not appreciate government intervention is such kind of matters." | Jun 28 17:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | lollll | Jun 28 17:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | because you know that your month-old baby is an anarchist who will appreciate that you were free to have his penis cut | Jun 28 17:48 |
| MinceR | anarchists should not appreciate cult intervention in anyone's life | Jun 28 17:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | very good point | Jun 28 17:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | let's look at who's being authoritarian here | Jun 28 17:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | "We bound you into the tribe, physically. No, you had no choice. But those bad old courts would stop us!!!!" | Jun 28 17:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | "We decided your choice wasn't important." | Jun 28 17:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Or material." | Jun 28 17:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | "bad luck kid. you're one of us now" | Jun 28 17:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrtp56_italy-vs-germany-live-tv-watch-uefa-euro-2012-2nd-semi-final-live_sport | Jun 28 18:00 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Italy vs Germany Live Tv - watch uefa euro 2012 2nd Semi Final live - Video Dailymotion .::. Size~: 75.04 KB | Jun 28 18:00 |
| schestowitz | You need to upgrade your Adobe Flash Player to watch this video. | Jun 28 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Download it from Adobe | Jun 28 18:01 |
| schestowitz | F** Trash | Jun 28 18:01 |
| schestowitz | Hehe... | Jun 28 18:24 |
| schestowitz | See the bluehost button http://slated.org/ | Jun 28 18:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Slated | You can run, but you can't hide .::. Size~: 23.24 KB | Jun 28 18:25 |
| schestowitz | "But you would tolerate government ban on circumcision which is intervention into personal life." | Jun 28 18:31 |
| schestowitz | "But you would tolerate government ban on circumcision which is intervention into personal life." | Jun 28 18:31 |
| schestowitz | Whose personal life? The baby that is subjected to abuse by the parent/s (who euphemise mutilation)? I'd rather see the government intervene -- forcibly if needed -- when adults shove their cock preferences down a baby's throat. | Jun 28 18:32 |
| MinceR | it doesn't have to be the government that stops cultists from mutilating children who can't defend themselves, but it can be an acceptable way to do so. | Jun 28 18:33 |
| schestowitz | I always LOL at the phrase "Freedom of religion" | Jun 28 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Religion is AGAINST freedom | Jun 28 18:34 |
| schestowitz | It's like calling Islam "religion of peace" | Jun 28 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Religion is about accepting others as a boss | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | it's the very antithesis of freedom | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: in the US abortion clinics are attacked, claiming they kill cells (aka so-called babies) | Jun 28 18:35 |
| schestowitz | But none assassins people who are serial penis cutters | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | on real life people | Jun 28 18:36 |
| MinceR | cultists like to interpret "freedom of religion" either as "i'm free to have my religion and you're free to have my religion" or "everyone is free to have any of a set of religions that i approve" | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | but anyway, Germany seems to pull the carpet from under "religious freedom" BS | Jun 28 18:36 |
| schestowitz | maybe they can replace mutilation with something gentler and non-evasive, liike baptism | Jun 28 18:37 |
| MinceR | i think they'll be accused of antisemitism | Jun 28 18:37 |
| schestowitz | anti-barbarism | Jun 28 18:37 |
| schestowitz | "I wouldnt tolerate circumcision in my community was it driven by state sponsored democracy or smaller self managed one. And there you go again seeing it as oppression. Oppression against what? Religion? Not good enough." | Jun 28 18:37 |
| schestowitz | "Anyway, from the result it seems it's limited to Cologne only, so there is no point to overblow the impact." | Jun 28 18:38 |
| schestowitz | "Oppression against what? Religion? Not good enough." > oppression against barbarism. It's like the criminal being chased down the street by the cop and complaining about being prosecuted. | Jun 28 18:38 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1754361 | Jun 28 18:43 |
| TechrightsSocial | @teapot@diasp.org reshared: Simple, yet so powerful. :) #atheism #religion #christianity #secular #muslim #catholic | Jun 28 18:43 |
| TechrightsSocial | Photo by jayness@diasp.org: https://diasp.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_a2a953a6d66f45b3774e.jpg | Jun 28 18:43 |
| schestowitz | LOL http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YzRbC7lQ-EQ#! | Jun 28 18:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Monty Python: Hitler in England - YouTube .::. Size~: 145.62 KB | Jun 28 18:54 |
| *ChanServ has quit (shutting down) | Jun 28 19:04 | |
| *ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Jun 28 19:05 | |
| *card.freenode.net gives channel operator status to ChanServ | Jun 28 19:05 | |
| schestowitz | "No point to engage in demagogy. You understand the matter well." | Jun 28 19:24 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Shmerl, you still havent answered my challenge how you should be able to justify this mutilation. You still havent commented on our allegations of this tradition being barbaric and how even parents shouldnt be able to harm their kids. Just like they arent allowed to beat them either. | Jun 28 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Justify it with good arguments. Its funny how hurting kids is only allowed if the otherwise criminal is screaming for religious tolerance. And thats exactly what your doing. You need to come up with better excuses, it makes it in no way better if you beat your kids because your holy text says so or if you just... | Jun 28 19:25 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:25 |
| schestowitz | apologists don't consider mutilation "barbaric" | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | > you still havent answered my challenge how you should be able to justify this mutilation. | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | I don't have to. You can challenge all you want. No one has to answer to such challenges. When they come from the governing administration however, that's another matter, and the ban should be opposed in the court or whatever. | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Whatever you call barbaric - is your own definition with which I don't agree on this one. | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | And to answer the question (I don't care about "challenge"), see above. It was already answered in the previous posts (i.e. the reason for the practice). | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:33 |
| schestowitz | "As far as I remember you only quoted some part of your holy text. That is not relevant and can be dismissed when somebody is cutting foreskins off a little kids." | Jun 28 19:36 |
| schestowitz | "To you. It is relevant and will be relevant to those who practice it. And they don't have to give you any other reasoning." | Jun 28 19:36 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Jun 28 19:36 |
| schestowitz | "What? They dont have to give any other reason than holy text? And you dare to call the ruling oppression?" | Jun 28 19:39 |
| schestowitz | "Maybe Jews think they are superior to the german law but the’ll learn quickly they are not. Latest when they face prison. The facts are that clear now for all doctors. Maybe you will think of importing some ... Wouldn’t be wise. The only thing that might happen is a kind of circumcision-tourism as we had this with abortions too." | Jun 28 19:40 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I have no good reason to look at one of them and not to the 10 commandments either. | Jun 28 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Not my business and will never be. The only thing I will have to respect are the laws given and as I said, Germany is a secular state and so we have laws standing above any religious rules. That simple. | Jun 28 19:40 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:40 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1752690 | Jun 28 19:46 |
| TechrightsSocial | @whirli@joindiaspora.com: #Circumcision ruling condemned by #Germany 's #Muslim and #Jewish leaders - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/27/circumcision-ruling-germany-muslim-jewish _"But another wrote: 'As a circumcised Jew, I can only add the following: did the state prosecutors in Cologne … have nothing better to do than … interfere in our thousands of years of Jewish religious law? No way, and that's why we need to act de | Jun 28 19:46 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:46 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Circumcision ruling condemned by Germany's Muslim and Jewish leaders | World news | guardian.co.uk .::. Size~: 219.72 KB | Jun 28 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Shmerl: picture a world where there is one more religion out there. Millions follow it. They have their holy text and in the central commandments it says that every family must cut the toes off of their children to brand them as the gods people. The practise is only justified by quoting the holy texts. | Jun 28 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Would you be happy with the custom? Would defend its excistence? | Jun 28 19:46 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Chinese person: I will have the dog. American person: eating dogs? We're civilised. We only eat pigs, cows, chicken... | Jun 28 19:47 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Yes, but that doesn’t include babys are kind of “property in goods” and they may take possession of them and do whatever they like. | Jun 28 19:48 |
| schestowitz | To give you another example that German laws allow less you can do with your children than for example US laws: Germany isn’t the US. In the US there is “Homeschooling”, in Germany parents get forced to send their kids to schools. If they don't do police will search them, parents will pay fines. If they still refuse, the children are taken out of the family. | Jun 28 19:48 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:48 |
| schestowitz | "And gets involved in the regulating religious life. Sounds like a contradiction to me." > secular does not mean agnostic | Jun 28 19:49 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Maybe you think they are not wise or even stupid. | Jun 28 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Well for me those, thinking religion is everything and who think sticking to one makes them stand above the laws are utterly stupid. | Jun 28 19:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/06/28/1213207/dotcom-search-warrants-ruled-illegal | Jun 28 19:50 |
| schestowitz | But you are free to name them stupid, I’d name these judges wise and respecting and enforcing elementary human rights. | Jun 28 19:50 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:50 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Dotcom Search Warrants Ruled Illegal - Slashdot .::. Size~: 319.35 KB | Jun 28 19:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | ^^ surprise, surprise | Jun 28 19:50 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Sorry, you are wrong. Of course it had religious backgrounds, read sub-chapter Middle Ages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Middle_Ages | Jun 28 19:51 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Witch-hunt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 148.55 KB | Jun 28 19:51 |
| schestowitz | And btw mutilation of new born babies and children in the name of religion is nothing else but religious crulty! | Jun 28 19:51 |
| schestowitz | There aren't any 'Muslim children' or 'Jewish children' - especially not 8-day old ones! | Jun 28 19:51 |
| schestowitz | This German ruling was about child abuse, not religion. | Jun 28 19:51 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 19:51 |
| FurnaceBoy | correct | Jun 28 19:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's not religious based at all | Jun 28 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Apologist: "No, oppressing human rights and making government involved where it's not supposed to. I'm not a big liker of excessive government involvement in general, and in this particular case even more so." | Jun 28 19:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | if atheists got into the habit of cutting their kids' genitals, the law applies equally to them | Jun 28 19:52 |
| schestowitz | I guess by that logic we should also abolish the police and court system | Jun 28 19:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | right | Jun 28 19:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | libertarians of convenience. | Jun 28 19:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | "the only laws we wish to follow are our own, thanks, written in this book | Jun 28 19:53 |
| schestowitz | "Really it comes down to a question of least harm. There is no compelling reason to believe that any religion would be irreparably harmed if circumcision is outlawed. Indeed, it is hard to identify any harm they would suffer at all, other than to the desire to maintain a relatively meaningless religious ritual. On the other hand, the circumcised child has experienced a situation that cannot be repaired. Whether or not this is | Jun 28 19:54 |
| schestowitz | harmful can be debated, but it seems clear that the child suffers at least some pain and a life-long irreversible condition. " | Jun 28 19:54 |
| MinceR | most mormons could give up polygamy. why can't jews give up circumcision? | Jun 28 19:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: it's the "life-long, irreversible" that is the POINT of the damn operation | Jun 28 19:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: but you know what? it's not 2000BC and this isn't a desert without medicine and with crappy infant mortality | Jun 28 19:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | fuq tribalism | Jun 28 19:58 |
| schestowitz | ":-D the warm up wasnt bad ehhh??" | Jun 28 20:12 |
| schestowitz | "Shmerl: your dodging the analogy there and Im loosing my patience. No point talking to you, if you refuse to comment on our allegations of how its not right for the kids. You refuse to ponder about the analogy and I can oly think of one reason: it would only make your barbarism show in a bad light. Thats not honest." | Jun 28 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Apologist: "Surely, I'm not going to argue with you on your terms, where you call it barbarism by definition. Not falling for that. You refuse to comment on the fact that it's a commandment the same way, saying that it's irrelevant and etc." | Jun 28 20:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | who has the patience to debate it | Jun 28 20:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | with the 3000 year old brain | Jun 28 20:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | might as well as the scorpion why he stung the frog | Jun 28 20:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | ask* | Jun 28 20:16 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Huh, I find it much more scary to see Israels right-wing extremist government and members of the Knesset opening the hunt on asylum-seekers and putting them in camps for years as seen in the last weeks to be honest.m | Jun 28 20:16 |
| schestowitz | But I read crazy comments comparing the situation about circumcision with Hitlers politics too. I do not really care about that. As I know there is a solution that was acceptable to jewish communities to do the circumcision much later at the age above 15 or 16 years, not at 8 days. | Jun 28 20:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Why do we cut our babies' dicks? It's our nature." | Jun 28 20:16 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 20:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Courts must not stop us doing this." | Jun 28 20:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | = special treatment | Jun 28 20:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | for an immoral, pointless act of tribalism | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Getting frustrated. I should know better than start "debating" with people who hold their holy texts as good enough reason to do bodily harm to anyone. To cut something you need to have medical reason or adult who knows what he wants it. Theres no way of getting around that. Everything else is just violating rights of the child. BOdily harm on children cannot be tolerated in any way. For you to not admit this is just | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | infuriating to me. | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Especially when you refuse to comment on the perfectly acceptable analogy. Classic tactics of those with faith. | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Cheers! | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | I quit this debate | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | it's like debvating Creationists | Jun 28 20:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | damn right | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | "Any debate requires intellectual honesty. You are pushing definitions of your terms for the frame of the debate, without understanding of the issue. It's not intellectually honest and such debates are a waste of time." | Jun 28 20:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | was always a waste of time and energy | Jun 28 20:17 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | "Anyway, from the result it seems it's limited to Cologne only, so there is no point to overblow the impact." | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Slightly wrong. It plays a role beyond as no doctor now can still argue that the legal position is unclear; the "error as to the prohibited nature of an act" is no longer a solution for all doctors. | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | There is only a strict and limited medical indication that has to be documented: | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | "phimosis" | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | In all other cases the doctor would be in danger of getting prosecuted. So what is left will be tourism to places where it still can be done legal or to hide and maybe get | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | ..." | Jun 28 22:39 |
| schestowitz | "This ruling has enormous significance for doctors," Professor Holm Putzke, an expert on law from Passau University in Germany told the newspaper. "For years there has been a call to ban circumcision for religious reasons. The court, as opposed to many politicians, was not afraid of criticism that its ruling was anti-Semitic or harmful to religion," he said. Putzke added that the decision "may not only influence future | Jun 28 22:40 |
| schestowitz | rulings, but also bring about a change in the worldview of religious people regarding basic rights of children." ... | Jun 28 22:40 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:41 |
| schestowitz | I would be interested if you have an idea how the Jewish community arranged that acceptation to do the circumcision later at the age of 15 or 16 years. That shows, there must be a way to resolve the conflict in a way the boys can decide for themself without getting in trouble with Jewish religion. | Jun 28 22:41 |
| schestowitz | I just read about it in hagalil (German article) where they write about a Swiss Jewish magazine "Tacheles" explaining details on what is going on in Norway. They too do not allow circumcisions and found a solution. | Jun 28 22:41 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:41 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | "I have no good reason to look at one of them and not to the 10 commandments either. So you have no good reason to discuss them either." | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Stop! | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | Someone, who thinks an invisible something in the sky named "GOD", had been ordering some others to write some books, many centuries ago while people still insisted the planet is not round but flat, this god had the wish to cut of the foreskin of his sons? | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | WTF, I think I have the right to not discuss this as it is absolute bullshit for me but it is not harmful for anybody!! Stuff like "The world made in 7 days, creating humans... | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | PWNED well | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | would be nice to get a reply on my question about norway .... | Jun 28 22:42 |
| schestowitz | I am out for today :) Good night @ all | Jun 28 22:43 |
| schestowitz | " | Jun 28 22:43 |
| schestowitz | I'm out of this since the morning, it's like arguing to a wall of dogma | Jun 28 22:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | ' invisible something in the sky named "GOD" ' says cut your son's penis when he's born. It's 2012, not 2012 BC. | Jun 28 22:43 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/1754334 "Nicely put, except for using "Americans" when it should say "US people" or "US citizens"." | Jun 28 23:21 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared:  [Source](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/26/1103368/-The-One-Comic-That-Explains-Just-How-Screwed-America-Is) #occupy #ows #anarchy #anarchism #fauxbama #obama #dontvote | Jun 28 23:21 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0.17 KB | Jun 28 23:21 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Daily Kos: The One Comic That Explains Just How Screwed America Is .::. Size~: 302.95 KB | Jun 28 23:21 |
| schestowitz | http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/28/elliot-lake-rescuers-came-within-feet-of-mall-collapse-victims-but-could-do-nothing/ | Jun 28 23:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Elliot Lake mall collapse rescuers came within feet of victims, but could do nothing | News | National Post .::. Size~: 92.81 KB | Jun 28 23:31 |
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