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IRC: #boycottnovell-social @ FreeNode: July 23rd, 2012

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schestowitzI've not set up UPS on a rack before,. so I ended up searching the web for the manual of this particular piece of equipment - - page 9 onwards talk about wiring the power cablesJul 23 01:12
TechrightsSocialNot a web page! Aborting application/pdf typeJul 23 01:12
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schestowitz 23 10:36 Been a busy weekend, bought the rings, today I might publish another RMS interview and write lots of posts.Jul 23 10:36
schestowitz"You're getting married! BEST WISHES!!! ^-^"Jul 23 10:36
schestowitz> Sure. But some part of this is a bit confidential at first. So I'm goingJul 23 13:09
schestowitz> to let you know what's going on on this OOXML project, but also my veryJul 23 13:09
schestowitz> own observation on the ODF front. Jul 23 13:09
schestowitz> Jul 23 13:09
schestowitz> Here's how we could work this out; I'm sending you my confidentialJul 23 13:09
schestowitz> observations as a backgrounder for you and then you send me the publicJul 23 13:09
schestowitz> questions that I will answer to. Does that work for you?Jul 23 13:09
schestowitzYes, it will also help me know which questions to avoid.Jul 23 13:09
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schestowitz!google how the west went bustJul 23 13:20
TechrightsSocial[1] - How The West Went Bust - Part 1 - YouTube | 23 13:20
TechrightsSocial[2] - How The West Went Bust - Part 2 - YouTube | 23 13:20
TechrightsSocial[3] - The Party's Over: How the West Went Bust | Watch Free ... | 23 13:20
TechrightsSocial[4] - BBC Two - The Party's Over: How the West Went Bust, Episode 1 | 23 13:20
schestowitzHere's the thing. People don't really care about the operating system they run, by and large. Normal people largely just care about the apps they can get. Google (and Apple's) cash cows, and also the things they use to datamine our personal lives, come down to apps either pre-installed or through their marketplaces.Jul 23 15:35
schestowitzWhile I'd definitely like Replicant (Android minus proprietary crap) to do well, it seems to me that it either won't give access to the Android marketplace, in which case the vast majority of people won't use it, or it will, and all the spyware apps will be installed negating most of the value anyway.Jul 23 15:35
schestowitzOOPSJul 23 15:35
FurnaceBoy 23 15:38
TechrightsSocial@monkchips: jason alexander on gun ownership. i had planned to avoid putting my oar in, but this post is solid 23 15:38
TechrightsSocial-> Title: TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter .::. Size~: 18.24 KBJul 23 15:38
schestowitz 23 15:53 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) Alpha 2 Released! #ubuntu #gnu #linuxJul 23 15:53
TechrightsSocial-> Title: 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) Alpha 2 Released! .::. Size~: 4.93 KBJul 23 15:53
schestowitz"By "most people" I include (but don't limit to) the mass of people whose posts you've commented on trying to convince them to change their definition to "just the kernel"... not to mention all the people off Diaspora that inspired RMS and his followers on this particular GNU/campaign."Jul 23 15:53
schestowitz 23 15:55 reshared: #spiderman #failJul 23 15:55
TechrightsSocial  Photo by 23 15:55
schestowitz"Never liked fantasy. People [and I don't know why, but americans in particular] tend to love fantasy like Spiderman, Batman, etc. Colorado shooter thought he was a Joker ... not very funny, eh?"Jul 23 15:55
MinceRyeah, let's blame "fantasy"Jul 23 15:57
MinceRban imaginationJul 23 15:57
MinceR 23 15:57
TechrightsSocialNot a web page! Aborting image/jpeg typeJul 23 15:57
schestowitz 23 16:05 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) Alpha 2 Released! #ubuntu #gnu #linuxJul 23 16:05
TechrightsSocial-> Title: 12.10 (Quantal Quetzal) Alpha 2 Released! .::. Size~: 4.93 KBJul 23 16:05
schestowitz"That's a small minority of the population unfortunately. Want to know what the L word means to the rest? Ask your dentist or librarian, or your butcher, or your bus driver, ... or..."Jul 23 16:05
schestowitzLinux far more famous than "Ubuntu" (the OS, not the word), probably more than Android tooJul 23 16:06
schestowitz 23 16:06 Analysing the FOSS World Based on Companies of Former Microsoft Staff #microsoft #ohloh #blackduckJul 23 16:06
TechrightsSocial-> Title: Analysing the FOSS World Based on Companies of Former Microsoft Staff | Techrights .::. Size~: 88.41 KBJul 23 16:06
MinceRWallace Wells: If you want something bad, you have to fight for it. Step up your game, Scott. Break out the L-word.Jul 23 16:07
MinceRScott Pilgrim: Lesbian?Jul 23 16:07
MinceRWallace Wells: The other L-word.Jul 23 16:07
MinceRScott Pilgrim: ...Lesbians? Jul 23 16:07
FurnaceBoyLawsuit?Jul 23 16:07
MinceR:>Jul 23 16:08
schestowitz"Jul 23 16:08
schestowitzPuuh, the attached PDF document is really explosive. But your messages are always one sentence twitter like and it is the nature of this communication that complicated and contradictory information sounds over-simplified (like propaganda) or boring or confusing. It is difficult to reshare it to get non-techie/non-foss people grasp what is going on. I even have problems sharing your blog with tech people working on foss, Jul 23 16:08
schestowitzbecause they say it is too biased to even continue reading any further (which doesn't disqualify the information you link or the arguments you put imo, but if they can't relate it to their reality by reading trusted sources, they won't read it because they refuse to read it from the start as it is so uncomfortable...). Maybe you can cite and give exact source locations and context in a 1 to 3 paragraphs here as well? Your Jul 23 16:08
schestowitzblog posts are similar to that, so it might even be better to follow your feed than you personally. You also cover plenty of tech news from h-online and phoronix etc., but as I already know these sources and follow them (as do many others), it might be more informative to expose more of this information and do less repost of tech sources. If you put quotes on your blog, please give a precise citation context at least, the PDF Jul 23 16:08
schestowitzis non OCR and while being explosive I couldn't find this quotation in 5 mins scanning through the document:Jul 23 16:08
schestowitz“Mind Control: To control mental output you have to control mental input. Take control of the channels by which developers receive information, then they can only think about the things you tell them. Thus, you control mindshare!”Jul 23 16:08
schestowitzAlso what is the context of the PDF document? I trust you haven't made it up, but there is no third party source where I can get it without starting a search for it, etc. ... If somebody is talking about mind-control, many people immediately think of hocus-pocus, gurus and propaganda arguments (which mind-control is often used in).Jul 23 16:08
schestowitz"Jul 23 16:08
schestowitz 23 16:09
TechrightsSocialNot a web page! Aborting application/pdf typeJul 23 16:09
schestowitz!google steve keen keiserJul 23 16:22
TechrightsSocial[1] - Keiser Report: Guest Steve Keen on ponzi economics (23Jun11 ... | 23 16:22
TechrightsSocial[2] - Australian economy and bursting housing bubble-On the Edge with ... | 23 16:22
TechrightsSocial[3] - Max Keiser interview | Steve Keen's Debtwatch | 23 16:22
TechrightsSocial[4] - Max Keiser & me & the UK's 950% Debt to GDP Level | Steve Keen's ... | 23 16:22
schestowitz 23 16:25 reshared: ### **“You're on Earth. There's no cure for that.”** — [Samuel Beckett]( #quotes #SamuelBeckettJul 23 16:25
TechrightsSocial-> Title: Quote by Samuel Beckett: You're on Earth. There's no cure for that. .::. Size~: 108.07 KBJul 23 16:25
schestowitz"Actually, about that..."Jul 23 16:25
schestowitz 23 16:25 On the threat from #UEFI #Secureboot (via @{Linux ;}): > First they came for #Gentoo. > And I did not speak up because I don't use Gentoo. > Then they came for #Arch Linux > and I said nothing because I don't use Arch Linux. > Later, they came for #Slackware. > And I kept silence, because I don't use Slackware. > Then they came for #Pardus Linux. > And I remained silent because I don't Jul 23 16:25
TechrightsSocial-> Title: UEFI, or the Age of Useless Computers... | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 219.98 KBJul 23 16:25
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schestowitz> Okay, some backgrounder. Jul 23 18:06
schestowitz> I was at first very opposed to this OOXML project. And of course I'mJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> still opposed to any sort of promotion of OOXML. It is however usefulJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> and important to realize that this funding *only* comes from German andJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> Swiss municipalities. Soon, they should also receive the supportJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> (additional funding) from the French governement (the same ministriesJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> that were advertised as using and deploying LibreOffice), but that'sJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> confidential news. There's no MSFT behind all this. But that's exactlyJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> what MSFT had foreseen and prepared. Because of their enormous monopolyJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> in terms of formats, people have started using and distributing OOXMLJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> docs here and there. The small advantage ODF had for a year has nowJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> bitten the dust. OOXML (whatever pseudo format this really is) hasJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> become an actual barrier to migrate to something else than MS Office.Jul 23 18:06
schestowitz> This initiative was not pushed by Novell/Suse. I was myself approachedJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> by these guys (the municipalities) and told them politely that my nameJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> would never be on such a document. They insisted. They finally calledJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> Suse. So today, we have a project that really is about reverseJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> engineering OOXML and add the best filters possible to LibreOffice. AndJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> it's a clear, yelling, loud demand from the userbase. Unfortunately , weJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> don't live in 2007 anymore. And ODF, although I will not write itJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> publicly, dead. Jul 23 18:06
schestowitz> Jul 23 18:06
schestowitz> What's going with ODF is actually of a great concern, and nobody seemsJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> to be doing anything about it. A bit of a chronology is useful here. InJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> 2008, OOXML passed the ISO standardization bar. The whole story isJul 23 18:06
schestowitz> something you know. It won, but it was a stupid, formal victory. No oneJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> could brag about OOXML being a good standard. You and I  and a fewJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> others had worked in such a way that OOXML was a "blood standard". MSFTJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> then explained that indeed, ODF had won and announced their support ofJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> ODF. In that time we had closed the loop on ODF 1.1 and were developingJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> ODF 1.2. Then, MSFT joined the TC, as well as individuals I will neverJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> explain their role or their reason  of getting involved there. IBM wasJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> maintaining investment there, but Sun and soon Oracle was actuallyJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> diminishing its investment. Soon we found ourselves in a situation whereJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> ODF 1.2 was scrutinized for everything and every little bit. ODF 1.2 wasJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> to be the best document standard ever apparently. And I guess peopleJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> like Rob Weir already had much on their plate, because they simply couldJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> not be on this 5 days a week. Anyway; at some point in time someone hadJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> the good idea to bring in DeltaXML, a software vendor selling expensiveJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> XML editors. That was yet another nail in the coffin. These people meanJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> well, but their business is to make XML more complex, not more simple.Jul 23 18:07
schestowitz> And then the great, unsolved discussion about change tracking startedJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> and there you go, one more year before ODF 1.2 ever saw the light of theJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> day. Around that time (end of 2010), ODF 1.2 was much overdue, and thereJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> was no real light at the end of the tunnel. The big issue became whenJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> Oracle started to pull away resources from the TC (the former Sun peopleJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> and its own engineers). And then LibreOffice appeared, coinciding soonJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> with the end of the MSFT-Suse alliance, which actually saw more SuseJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> people joining the TC. TDF has now joined the OASIS (there's a PR to beJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> written this week), but we won't be able to save a sinking ship. Jul 23 18:07
schestowitz> Jul 23 18:07
schestowitz> The present situation is this one: ODF is a great format for people whoJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> don't want to use MS Office file format. And that's about it, that'sJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> what it has become. Pulling away Sun and Oracle created a hole that wasJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> never filled in. Then IBM started to get a bit too violent against a fewJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> TDF stakeholders; that didn't help either. And the chronicallyJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> underfunded ODF plugfest may not survive too long, as there againJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> there's been quite a lot of tensions. Jul 23 18:07
schestowitz> Jul 23 18:07
schestowitz> Well, that's it for today... do you have any (private) questions ? I canJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> write some more on more positive things, such as the latest newsJul 23 18:07
schestowitz> surrounding LibreOffice if you want.Jul 23 18:07
schestowitz 23 18:17 How The West Went Bust | 23 18:17
TechrightsSocial-> Title: How The West Went Bust - Part 1       - YouTube .::. Size~: 148.68 KBJul 23 18:17
TechrightsSocial-> Title: How The West Went Bust - Part 2       - YouTube .::. Size~: 144.45 KBJul 23 18:17
schestowitz 23 18:17
TechrightsSocialTitle: The Moving Pyramid : Camille Eden : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive .::. Size~: 32.32 KBJul 23 18:17
schestowitzThe main question in my mind is, in hindsight, how much did work on the so-called "convertor" that Microsoft demanded Novell should work on play in the formats dynamics? Frankly, I do not worry about OOXML far too much because mobile devices and Google Apps work against the inertia of Microsoft Office. Moreover, regardless of where funds or pressure comes from in government, it all boils down to people. Some front group in Jul 23 18:25
schestowitzGermany, for example, called itself "open source business" something and it had Microsoft connections. Microsoft is good at controlled opposition -- pretending to speak for it or paying it to be a Microsoft sockpuppet (not just Novell). Any government that starts with the assumption that more OOXML compatibility will improve things is basically leaning on a phantom; later on when it fails they blame the software rather than Jul 23 18:25
schestowitzthe format.Jul 23 18:25
schestowitz"Those who don't understand Linux are doomed to reinvent it, poorly." (Unidentified source.)Jul 23 18:25
FurnaceBoyermJul 23 18:30
FurnaceBoythat's a misquoteJul 23 18:30
FurnaceBoyit's Henry Baker, and he said Unix, i believe.Jul 23 18:30
FurnaceBoyhenry spencerJul 23 18:31
schestowitzyeahJul 23 18:38
schestowitzintentional misquoteJul 23 18:38
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