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| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz_log: https://www.quora.com/North-Korea/Why-havent-any-countries-tried-to-free-the-North-Koreans-from-their-concentration-camps-isnt-it-like-the-Holocaust/answer/Toby-Thain | Apr 02 04:17 |
|---|---|---|
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Toby Thain's answer to North Korea: Why haven't any countries tried to free the North Koreans from their concentration camps, isn't it like the Holocaust? - Quora .::. Size~: 43.54 KB | Apr 02 04:17 |
| eikonos | no oil in north korea? | Apr 02 04:29 |
| eikonos | when the british east india company first into india what was the justification? | Apr 02 04:37 |
| eikonos | surely it wasn't "those heathens need democracy"? | Apr 02 04:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | they didn't need one. | Apr 02 04:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | and ideally, USA wasn't looking for one either. | Apr 02 04:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | several were manufactured | Apr 02 04:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | to mollify the centre | Apr 02 04:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: hm, i was going to say that Rome didn't need a pretext to occupy Britain either, but most likely they did -- again to mollify the bourgeois back home | Apr 02 04:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | in the end, they overextended, and we all know what happened next. | Apr 02 04:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | what is hilarious is that the USA thinks it will do better than Rome | Apr 02 04:39 |
| eikonos | it seems to be less a coherent strategy than various factions each using their connections and influence to get the government to put money into their industry. ie: well-connected CEO of Military Drones Inc hires lobbyist to "fund the campaign" of various senators | Apr 02 04:46 |
| eikonos | ditto "Airport Pornoscanners Inc", etc | Apr 02 04:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | you seem to be focusing on details or implementation rather than a broader process | Apr 02 04:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | the broader process, imho, is theft | Apr 02 04:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | and war is a superfast and very large scale tactic | Apr 02 04:51 |
| eikonos | sure | Apr 02 04:53 |
| eikonos | but the devil is in the details | Apr 02 04:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | sort of | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | i think the broad strokes are the effective ones | Apr 02 04:54 |
| eikonos | i don't think the broader process exists except for the details | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | own the media | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | own the political process | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | these are pretty broad strokes | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | those aren't "details". | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | they also take time to achieve | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | what people forget is that there have been hundreds of years of preparation | Apr 02 04:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | to this point | Apr 02 04:54 |
| eikonos | not really.. | Apr 02 04:55 |
| eikonos | nobody lives that long | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | it didn't happen overnight. to see it happening at all -- it's so slow -- you need a 30/40 year window minimum | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, really. | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | this has been put into place over many lifetimes. | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | however, it's the 20th century that really moved into endgame. | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can see this for yourself | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | the institutions are quite old, look at them | Apr 02 04:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | everything builds on institutions | Apr 02 04:56 |
| eikonos | i don't think anyone set out to achieve this 100 years ago | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | huh? | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, you're mistaken :) | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | you just haven't done the research yet :) | Apr 02 04:56 |
| eikonos | i'm saying that sedimentary rock forms out of sand | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | this system is way more than 100 yrs old | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | just look at it | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | harder | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | and you'll see | Apr 02 04:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | but | Apr 02 04:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | you are right that the recent bits are more important in a way | Apr 02 04:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can start with the 20th C | Apr 02 04:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | most of that history is accessible and readily mapped to the current status of things | Apr 02 04:57 |
| eikonos | i don't think there are architects | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | heh | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | what research are you basing that on? | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | dude | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's beyond naive | Apr 02 04:58 |
| eikonos | the status quo wasn't intelligently designed; it just evolved this way | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | hahhahaah | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | okay... | Apr 02 04:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's ridiculous, but you're entitled to it ;) | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | just study it | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | look at the layers. | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | every layer builds on another layer. | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | eventually you wake up in the 15th century | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | if you really get scientific about this | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can go back as far as you like. | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's just history | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | the connections are all there | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | but | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | to make it easy | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | just start from today and work backwards. | Apr 02 04:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's trivial then | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | for example, | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | today's "Austerity". | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | what's the direct antecedent? | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | it didn't arise out of nowhere. | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's a continuation of a strategy. | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | how far back can you trace that strategy, without opening a history book? | Apr 02 05:00 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: come on they're not even making it hard for you. | Apr 02 05:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: who was President in 1991? | Apr 02 05:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: and who was his father. | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: and what did his father do. | Apr 02 05:05 |
| eikonos | shrub! | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | shrub's dad was president | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | in 1991 | Apr 02 05:05 |
| eikonos | huh | Apr 02 05:05 |
| eikonos | i thought he was in earlier | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | and shrub;s grand-dad was quite a playa too | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | he was, but 1991 was when he went killin' in the Middle East | Apr 02 05:05 |
| eikonos | yeah, that's how these things work | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | the point is | Apr 02 05:05 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's a dynasty right there, in plain sight. | Apr 02 05:06 |
| eikonos | sure | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | and that's just one, visible one. | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | there are hundreds of them. | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | take the british monarchy. | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | is that a system that sprang up in 1961? | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | no | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's been around for centuries. | Apr 02 05:06 |
| eikonos | if not longer | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | assets, strategies | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | right | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | they all have | Apr 02 05:06 |
| eikonos | ancient egypt | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | and none of them ceded power | Apr 02 05:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's that aphorism | Apr 02 05:07 |
| eikonos | it's tribes with hereditary leaders all the way down | Apr 02 05:07 |
| eikonos | and all the way up | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | "Power never cedes itself, voluntarily." | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | except | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | these tribes have all the assets, all the weapons, and all the power. | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | and they have done for centuries. | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | and they won't give it up. | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | there is no reboot/erase | Apr 02 05:07 |
| eikonos | you're not going to rid the hairless apes of hereditary tribal leaders without fundamentally rewiring their DNA | Apr 02 05:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | but you can imagine they would like people to think it 'evolved' 'efficiently' into the status quo | Apr 02 05:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | nothing could be further from the truth. | Apr 02 05:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: that's an entirely different concept. | Apr 02 05:08 |
| eikonos | i don't think evolution leads to the best results | Apr 02 05:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: we don't even have to discuss tribes here, you can just discuss who has the assets and power | Apr 02 05:08 |
| eikonos | if it did, i'd be able to grow a lost limb back | Apr 02 05:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: and the point is the same groups do | Apr 02 05:08 |
| qu1j0t3 | and you can't take it away from them in any obvious way | Apr 02 05:08 |
| eikonos | right | Apr 02 05:08 |
| eikonos | and apparently, you can't be satirical in egypt | Apr 02 05:09 |
| eikonos | because even satire is a threat | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's why you have to mistrust Trudeau or whoever is talking for those 'tribes' today | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | they don't GET to talk for them without being part of them | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | ditto the presidency. | Apr 02 05:09 |
| eikonos | i've always thought trudeau smelled funny | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's really much worse than people think. | Apr 02 05:09 |
| eikonos | i don't even know why | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, he's Establishment. | Apr 02 05:09 |
| eikonos | it's not that | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | he's part of the long term problem | Apr 02 05:09 |
| eikonos | he doesn't really know what he's for | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | maybe. :) | Apr 02 05:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | but he'll find out soon enough :) | Apr 02 05:09 |
| eikonos | he doesn't /believe/ | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | see? | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | if he's elected, he'l find out what he's for. | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | JFK didn't., | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | you see? | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | i can't explain Pierre Trudeau though. | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | he's some kind of aberration | Apr 02 05:10 |
| eikonos | i wasn't around at the time, so i don't know | Apr 02 05:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | during the 20th C things went in and out of focus. | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | JFK is an example. | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | he wasn't on the team | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | Trudeau also, i think. | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | which is why Harper is 'fixing' that now. | Apr 02 05:11 |
| eikonos | the problem is you have to be confident to be elected. you can be an absolute idiot and you'll beat the knowledgeable thinker | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | but Justin Trudeau isn't Pierre and won't be allowed to depart from the script. | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's not about the person ,. at least not today. | Apr 02 05:11 |
| eikonos | nah, it's always about the person | Apr 02 05:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | the qualities of the person don't matter. | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | no, it not :) | Apr 02 05:12 |
| eikonos | nothing else matters | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | Ford, Bush, Harper. | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | huh? | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | well | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | in the sense that's how they got picked before the election, sure. | Apr 02 05:12 |
| eikonos | ford didn't get elected for his good looks, his good hair or his smarts | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | but in the election, it doesn't matter. | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | elections don't matter. | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | there were moments when they did, i think, like i said: P.E. Trudeau, JFK, Gough Whitlam | Apr 02 05:12 |
| qu1j0t3 | but that was long ago | Apr 02 05:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | JFK was killed, Whitlam was removed | Apr 02 05:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | bad things happen to the wrong leaders | Apr 02 05:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | Trudeau was a mixed bag, but building an egalitarian society is not on the menu | Apr 02 05:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | any more | Apr 02 05:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | if things were 'organic' and 'fluid' like you suggest, it would simply happen | Apr 02 05:15 |
| eikonos | not really | Apr 02 05:15 |
| eikonos | people with money and influence do not want it | Apr 02 05:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | but they are not ... how many days of continuous things-being-done-backwards do you have to live through before you realise it's deliberate? | Apr 02 05:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: that's what i am saying. | Apr 02 05:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | if things were 'organic' and 'fluid' like you suggest, it would simply happen <--- | Apr 02 05:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | things are not organic and fluid. | Apr 02 05:16 |
| eikonos | huh | Apr 02 05:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | they are controlled, more than most of the 20th C | Apr 02 05:16 |
| eikonos | by the illuminati? | Apr 02 05:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | don't be silly. | Apr 02 05:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | just look at what is actually going on. | Apr 02 05:16 |
| qu1j0t3 | why is harper shutting down services, building prisons, and trying to make canadian society as violent and dysfunctional as the USA? | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's no doubt this is what he's doing. | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | did you ever wonder why? | Apr 02 05:17 |
| eikonos | i know why | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | or why every other developed nation is doing it too? | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | in lockstep? | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | curious, wouldn't you say? | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | hardly accidental | Apr 02 05:17 |
| eikonos | he wants the oil companies to make lots of money, and the environmental regulations, scientists, etc were just going to slow that down | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | heh | Apr 02 05:17 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, that's focusing on a tiny detail. | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | why is every developed nation doing exactly the same thing? | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | in the same way | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | and in fact, in conference with each other. | Apr 02 05:18 |
| eikonos | if you look at why any individual died, you'll find there's one tiny detail that did it | Apr 02 05:18 |
| eikonos | ie: heart failure | Apr 02 05:18 |
| eikonos | some particular cancer | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | you're looking at a symptom | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | not the disease. | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | what's the disease? | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's nothing to do with hating the environment or even loving oil | Apr 02 05:18 |
| qu1j0t3 | those are just symptoms | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | or details | Apr 02 05:19 |
| eikonos | i don't think he does it for ideology | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | right | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | he doesn't.t | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | he doesn't even matter at all | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | nor do his beliefs | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | he's just a functionary | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | same as Obama | Apr 02 05:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | or David Cameron, or Gillard, or Merkel, or any Western leader | Apr 02 05:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | Harper-the-man isn't even important | Apr 02 05:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | the only important men are the ones who aren't part of the problem: the Pierre Trudeau's, the JFK's | Apr 02 05:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | but the IDEOLOGY is useful | Apr 02 05:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | which is why it's employed | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | ask FOX | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's marketing | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can market an idea like austerity | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | first, you salt the ground with Ayn Rand and Free market crap | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | for decades | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | then you find , oh, Austerity is easier to sell | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | you also salt it with Nationalism | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | and racism (hand picked immigration minister, Tom Flanagan, etc) | Apr 02 05:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | ever wonder why | Apr 02 05:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | the right wing ideology is identical | Apr 02 05:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | everywhere it's deployed | Apr 02 05:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | Thatcher, Reagan, Howard, Harper, and every fascist regime of the past 100 years | Apr 02 05:22 |
| eikonos | it's not surprising | Apr 02 05:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's like scientology | Apr 02 05:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | they figured out how to market it | Apr 02 05:23 |
| eikonos | right | Apr 02 05:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | the USA is so marinated in that garbage that they are constantly intension | Apr 02 05:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | in tension | Apr 02 05:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | they keep the tension at 50-50 | Apr 02 05:23 |
| qu1j0t3 | for maximal distraction | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's working perfectly | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | Murdoch | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | was the key | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | to perfecting this system | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | and all the western democracies use him | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | Au -> Uk -> USA -> Canada -> ... | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | he even tried to do China | Apr 02 05:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | now, the idea that murdoch has clients is hardly controversial is it? | Apr 02 05:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's right in your face | Apr 02 05:25 |
| eikonos | would you say that evolution of a given animal was proceeding according to a plan? | Apr 02 05:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | none of this is NATURAL | Apr 02 05:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's where you've got the wrong end of the stick. | Apr 02 05:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | this is all monkey-brain intellectual crap | Apr 02 05:25 |
| eikonos | not really | Apr 02 05:25 |
| eikonos | i haven't explained what i'm thinking | Apr 02 05:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can be reductionist and say it's the action of multicelled organisms, i hope that's not where you're going :) | Apr 02 05:26 |
| eikonos | basically, it's lord of the flies on a large scale | Apr 02 05:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | sure | Apr 02 05:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | but it's not RECENT. | Apr 02 05:26 |
| eikonos | right | Apr 02 05:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | the bones of this are very old | Apr 02 05:26 |
| eikonos | but it's not according to a plan | Apr 02 05:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, yes and no. | Apr 02 05:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | it is progressing linearly. | Apr 02 05:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | and predictably. | Apr 02 05:26 |
| eikonos | it's just leaders with money and influence using their money and influence to get more influence. and damn the means or the cost to others | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | not only historians, but novelists, have predicted all this very accurately. | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, no. | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | sorry: there IS a plan. :) | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | and we're the FOOD in it. | Apr 02 05:27 |
| eikonos | is the plan written down? | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | all the evidence you need is out there. | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes , a lot of it is. | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | they aren't being very secretive, eikonos | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | they haven't needed to be, so far | Apr 02 05:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | did you ever wonder why they were threatened by wikileaks? | Apr 02 05:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | more than ANY other threat | Apr 02 05:28 |
| eikonos | no, it's obvious | Apr 02 05:28 |
| eikonos | information is power | Apr 02 05:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | wikileaks threatens to prove what i am saying to people like you :) | Apr 02 05:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | no, not generic information | Apr 02 05:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | what they fear is a tsunami of information | Apr 02 05:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | that will make it impossible for people like you to deny what's being done :) | Apr 02 05:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | i have an unfair advantage | Apr 02 05:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | i started studying this when i was about 16 :) | Apr 02 05:29 |
| eikonos | i'm not denying what's happening. i just don't think it's a grand unified conspiracy | Apr 02 05:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | and i haven't liked any moment of it | Apr 02 05:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | then just study what's happening | Apr 02 05:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | and you'll eventually see the pattern | Apr 02 05:29 |
| qu1j0t3 | it doesn't make you wonder at all that it's all in lockstep? we already know it's planned | Apr 02 05:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | this isn't secret | Apr 02 05:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | what do you think they discuss at G20, Davos? | Apr 02 05:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | have you checked the guest lists? | Apr 02 05:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | you should | Apr 02 05:30 |
| qu1j0t3 | why do you think G20 is a militarily defended fort everywhere it goes? | Apr 02 05:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's like the queen's carriage | Apr 02 05:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | the member list for a Bilderberg conference was leaked. read that list. | Apr 02 05:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | all this stuff is on record, they are unbelievably sloppy | Apr 02 05:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | the wikileaks threat isn't to reveal all that known stuff, it's to reveal stuff that will finally reach more people in ways they can't refuse to accept | Apr 02 05:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | the antidote to TV, basically. | Apr 02 05:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | they can't afford that antidote to get out. | Apr 02 05:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | en masse | Apr 02 05:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's why individuals, isolated, are not threats | Apr 02 05:33 |
| eikonos | right, the G20 is a massive problem | Apr 02 05:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | and drone strikes aren't to take individuals out | Apr 02 05:33 |
| eikonos | we're not allowed to see it, but we have to pay for it | Apr 02 05:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | (none of those dead guys mattered) | Apr 02 05:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | drone strikes are to sow general terror, like most tactics | Apr 02 05:33 |
| eikonos | right | Apr 02 05:33 |
| eikonos | clearly | Apr 02 05:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | we know a lot about the G20, Davos, meetings like Bilderberg | Apr 02 05:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | we know the agenda | Apr 02 05:34 |
| eikonos | "don't get uppity or we'll come down on you with a missile" | Apr 02 05:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | but it's not enough to reach enough people | Apr 02 05:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | wikileaks has the POTENTIAL to undo what the mass media has been installed to do | Apr 02 05:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | which is why they need to shut it down | Apr 02 05:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | also, you can't reach people with information that's already public | Apr 02 05:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | this conversation is sort of underlining that :) | Apr 02 05:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | and i don't think any further info about Iraq will reach people | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | they don't care about iraq much | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | so it needs to be something new | Apr 02 05:36 |
| eikonos | most people don't seem to | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | what would hit home? | Apr 02 05:36 |
| eikonos | but for me, the more specifics you can talk about, the more interesting it is | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, you can get them anywhere | Apr 02 05:36 |
| eikonos | i /can/ believe that the G20 is an actual conspiracy | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | buy some John Pilger books. | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | that will be more specifics than you can cope with. | Apr 02 05:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | his books are very strong medicine: Real journalism | Apr 02 05:36 |
| eikonos | right | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | or Noam Chomsky. | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | G20 is not only an 'actual conspiracy' (not a very secret one), | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | it is representative of the power structure. | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's only 1 power structure. | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's a key thing to realise. | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | there are not a bunch of organic competing ones. | Apr 02 05:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | this is easy to prove, too | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | ther'es only 1 media, eikonos | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's only 1 consensus | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | there is absolutely no competition of ideas in the media | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's only 1 idea | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | same in congress | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | there are not 2 parties. | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's a story for the children | Apr 02 05:38 |
| eikonos | oh, i know there aren't two parties | Apr 02 05:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | right, now extrapolate. | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | if there is 1 party | Apr 02 05:39 |
| eikonos | that whole thing is just silly | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | and 1 idea in the media | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | then there is 1 power structure. | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's it. | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | there's just one. | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | once you realise that | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | you have the keys to the puzzle | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | you're just looking at limbs and facets of one thing. | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | Harper is one libm. | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | limb.* | Apr 02 05:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | cut him off, another one grows in its place | Apr 02 05:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | connected to the _same body_ | Apr 02 05:40 |
| eikonos | harper is canada's eh-nus | Apr 02 05:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | David Cameron. A limb on the _same body_ as Harper, Obama, Merkel, ... | Apr 02 05:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | that body eats and drinks at G20 and Davos | Apr 02 05:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | and other gatherings | Apr 02 05:41 |
| qu1j0t3 | and what it wants, it gets. | Apr 02 05:41 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's why iraq couldn't be stopped | Apr 02 05:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | we knew it couldn't be stopped | Apr 02 05:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's what the organism wanted | Apr 02 05:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | you see why nationalism is such a handy idea to inject | Apr 02 05:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | if you can foster nationalism, it's harder for people to see that there are no nations | Apr 02 05:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | the whole thing is "making it harder for people to see reality: | Apr 02 05:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | and as long as the media is fully theirs | Apr 02 05:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | we have barely begun | Apr 02 05:45 |
| eikonos | it's not like anyone has to work to stir up nationalism | Apr 02 05:45 |
| eikonos | it's like sports | Apr 02 05:45 |
| eikonos | or any other form of tribalism | Apr 02 05:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | i don't think it's a natural reflex | Apr 02 05:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | but it's hammered very hard | Apr 02 05:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | for this reason | Apr 02 05:45 |
| eikonos | are there any species of ape that do not live in groups? | Apr 02 05:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | we are apes | Apr 02 05:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | but we don't have to live LIKE THIS | Apr 02 05:46 |
| eikonos | right | Apr 02 05:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's being DONE TO US | Apr 02 05:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's something that we can change | Apr 02 05:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | or, at a minimum, see clearly | Apr 02 05:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | wouldn't that be refreshing... | Apr 02 05:47 |
| eikonos | i think tribalism in inherent, like having two arms | Apr 02 05:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | this isn't tribalism. | Apr 02 05:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | we are talking about a highly unnatural structure. | Apr 02 05:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | for some of the reasons you said: Natural things don't live 1000 years. | Apr 02 05:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | this is optional, this is a construct. | Apr 02 05:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | like a political skyscraper. | Apr 02 05:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | it can be dynamited, then it's gone | Apr 02 05:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | sure, something else might spring up. | Apr 02 05:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | but the point is to exercise will | Apr 02 05:49 |
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| roy | http://www.chrisspivey.co.uk/?p=10705 | Apr 02 09:28 |
| roy | [nsfw[] | Apr 02 09:28 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Chris Spivey » Blog Archive » Angela Merkel Naked *updated .::. Size~: 55.81 KB | Apr 02 09:28 |
| *roy is now known as schestowitz | Apr 02 09:28 | |
| schestowitz | how photos can magically come back | Apr 02 09:29 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2497921 | Apr 02 11:16 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Depositor Haircuts Spreading http://www.activistpost.com/2013/03/depositor-haircuts-spreading.html #banking #eu | Apr 02 11:16 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Activist Post: Depositor Haircuts Spreading .::. Size~: 249.12 KB | Apr 02 11:16 |
| schestowitz | "Didn't most huge investors (yes, including the supposedly exceptionally evil *Russian* gangsters) get their money out months before they started stealing from the work-a-day depositors?" | Apr 02 11:16 |
| schestowitz | Oligarchs don't need Cyprus. The billionaires have other tax havens, such as Switzerland and some tiny islands. Cyprus was not even on the radar as a tax haven, this whole talking point seems like a decoy, a plot by the bankers to demonise the victims. | Apr 02 11:17 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2497881 | Apr 02 11:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: Miss Fapper  #christianity #masturbation #foxpropaganda #tabloid | Apr 02 11:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting application/xml type | Apr 02 11:19 |
| schestowitz | "Wow. Ms. "Fapper" is against fapping? This proves to me how cynical Fox News is. Oh, wait - their 'sheeple' (Christmas card)[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/21/fox-news-christmas-card-photon1163927.html] already did that." | Apr 02 11:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Something's Gone Terribly Wrong .::. Size~: 3.78 KB | Apr 02 11:19 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2500663 | Apr 02 11:20 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Facebook is still losing teens to mobile messaging apps http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/01/facebook-mobile-messaging-apps/ a bit of a #hogwash towards the end | Apr 02 11:20 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Facebook is still losing teens to mobile messaging apps | VentureBeat .::. Size~: 102.69 KB | Apr 02 11:20 |
| schestowitz | "#fakebook will be history in the long run. " | Apr 02 11:20 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2500707 | Apr 02 11:20 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Front page https://joindiaspora.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/images/scaled_full_ea566efb93a6ca8fc23a.jpg #uk #tory | Apr 02 11:20 |
| schestowitz | Signed a petition to see if the weasel can really do it. | Apr 02 11:20 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Apr 02 11:20 |
| schestowitz | http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/iain-duncan-smith-iain-duncan-smith-to-live-on-53-a-week | Apr 02 11:20 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: NO TITLE .::. Size~: 0.9 KB | Apr 02 11:20 |
| schestowitz | signed | Apr 02 11:21 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2490265 | Apr 02 11:24 |
| schestowitz | "a world where people appreciate freedom" | Apr 02 11:24 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Mr. @jonobacon from #canonical & #ubuntu has new s/w: "Right now BBQpad is not Open Source" http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/03/29/introducing-bbqpad/ #bbqpad | Apr 02 11:24 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Introducing BBQpad | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 40.79 KB | Apr 02 11:24 |
| schestowitz | I'd be surprised if most people even know what software freedom means - and even more surprised if they gave two cents about it :) | Apr 02 11:24 |
| schestowitz | Most people just want working software without the ideals. This is not saying the work by the people who believe in ideals is not good, it's good of course, but to assume everybody wants the same thing is the one thing that makes people with ideals extremists. | Apr 02 11:24 |
| schestowitz | People don't understand what softare freedom means, which is why groups like the FSF try to lecture on the subject. People do understand freedom, however. They may not like being force to go to work at 8AM, or their music taken away by DRM. | Apr 02 11:24 |
| schestowitz | #software | Apr 02 11:25 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/edyong209/status/318092720063258625 | Apr 02 11:27 |
| TechrightsSocial | @edyong209: Rocket scientist dies. NYT obit leads with her cooking skills, husband and kids. Oh just fuck off. http://t.co/5UcAN5n4ES HT @stevesilberman | Apr 02 11:27 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Yvonne Brill, Rocket Scientist, Dies at 88 - NYTimes.com .::. Size~: 54.66 KB | Apr 02 11:27 |
| schestowitz | http://t.co/9MpxiyOMNO | Apr 02 11:39 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Opinion: The drone secrets we should see - Jameel Jaffer - POLITICO.com .::. Size~: 95.05 KB | Apr 02 11:39 |
| schestowitz | http://t.co/9MpxiyOMNO | Apr 02 11:39 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Opinion: The drone secrets we should see - Jameel Jaffer - POLITICO.com .::. Size~: 95.05 KB | Apr 02 11:39 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/317776816821657600 | Apr 02 11:42 |
| TechrightsSocial | @wikileaks: Watch out for denouncements from the NYT, BBC, AI and HRW on the latest Swedish crackdown on press freedom. | Apr 02 11:42 |
| schestowitz | http://qz.com/50615/welcome-to-ireland-where-house-payments-are-optional-apparently/ | Apr 02 11:47 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Welcome to Ireland, where mortgage payments are apparently optional – Quartz .::. Size~: 60.04 KB | Apr 02 11:47 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2490265 | Apr 02 11:48 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 02 11:48 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Mr. @jonobacon from #canonical & #ubuntu has new s/w: "Right now BBQpad is not Open Source" http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/03/29/introducing-bbqpad/ #bbqpad | Apr 02 11:48 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Introducing BBQpad | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 40.79 KB | Apr 02 11:48 |
| schestowitz | All freedoms are not equal. Take away a persons freedom to move, work or such - person will be unhappy. Take away a persons software freedom and most people wont notice :) | Apr 02 11:48 |
| schestowitz | FSF and their work is great - but some people in that organization or those ideals often view things from a very extreme viewpoint - thinking everybody thinks like them or wants the same things. | Apr 02 11:48 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 02 11:48 |
| schestowitz | That's untrue, they don't coerce. | Apr 02 11:48 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2490265 | Apr 02 12:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Mr. @jonobacon from #canonical & #ubuntu has new s/w: "Right now BBQpad is not Open Source" http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/03/29/introducing-bbqpad/ #bbqpad | Apr 02 12:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Introducing BBQpad | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 40.79 KB | Apr 02 12:17 |
| schestowitz | "Anyway, this has little to do with the post any more. I just find it odd that Jono would be mocked for having private projects. And how is he even a free software advocate? Canonical is hardly promoting free software as FSF understands it, but rather open source software." | Apr 02 12:17 |
| schestowitz | All I did was, I pointed out this project is closed sourced for now, hoping Jono will release the code when it's ready (I suspect that's the case) | Apr 02 12:17 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2501196 | Apr 02 14:18 |
| TechrightsSocial | @linux@joindiaspora.com: Distrowatch Almost Got Me, April Fools' Jokes http://ostatic.com/blog/distrowatch-almost-got-me-april-fools-jokes | Apr 02 14:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Distrowatch Almost Got Me, April Fools' Jokes .::. Size~: 35.75 KB | Apr 02 14:19 |
| schestowitz | ""These distributions are clearly not very popular, so why bother?" LOL" | Apr 02 14:19 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2500340 | Apr 02 14:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | @ryuken@diasp.de: #humor | Apr 02 14:25 |
| TechrightsSocial | Photo by ryuken@diasp.de: https://diasp.de/uploads/images/thumb_medium_40d8ebb2dc483f03245b.png | Apr 02 14:25 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2501024 | Apr 02 14:26 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Icelandic MP and Wikileaks volunteer goes to the US - Might get arrested http://www.newsoficeland.com/home/politics/foreign-affairs/item/996-icelandic-mp-and-wikileaks-volunteer-goes-to-the-us-might-get-arrested "Birgitta Jonsdottir" #iceland #wikileaks | Apr 02 14:26 |
| schestowitz | 'That´s brave of her." | Apr 02 14:26 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Icelandic MP and Wikileaks volunteer goes to the US - Might get arrested .::. Size~: 109.81 KB | Apr 02 14:26 |
| schestowitz | A bit risky. Assange spoke out against it as they can grill her to derive a confession to be later used against him. | Apr 02 14:26 |
| MinceR | :D | Apr 02 14:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/100445992 | Apr 02 16:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | @Jose R Rodriguez (metztli)'s status on Tuesday, 02-Apr-13 15:46:10 UTC - Identi.ca: "'Don't label #GMOs. BAN THE…' #MotherFuckers!!!" #Monsanto #DuPont #patent #monopoly on #seed ♺ @schestowitz http://ur1.ca/d8q16 | Apr 02 16:54 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: http://file3.status.net/i/identica/metztli-20130402T154606-qgfsusl.png - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 11.95 KB | Apr 02 16:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | AMEN. | Apr 02 16:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | rt'd | Apr 02 16:58 |
| MinceR | i don't think that GMOs are the problem. i think that the patenting of GMOs and insufficient testing of GMOs are the problem. | Apr 02 17:02 |
| MinceR | (but mainly the former) | Apr 02 17:02 |
| MinceR | (or whatever legal shenanigans mon$anto is doing with them, anyway) | Apr 02 17:03 |
| qu1j0t3 | oh, they're been tested. And the tests show they're dangerous to animals and humans. | Apr 02 17:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | in every case | Apr 02 17:04 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's aspartame all over again. "You're gonna eat this regardless" | Apr 02 17:05 |
| MinceR | not all GMOs produce the same proteins/chemicals. | Apr 02 17:09 |
| MinceR | this is not a 'test "GMO" once and it's done' thing. | Apr 02 17:09 |
| qu1j0t3 | they produce an unpredictable set of proteins | Apr 02 17:09 |
| MinceR | every GMO should be tested separately, similarly to how pharmaceuticals are tested. | Apr 02 17:09 |
| MinceR | it should be pretty predictable if they do it properly | Apr 02 17:10 |
| qu1j0t3 | the process is essentially random | Apr 02 17:10 |
| MinceR | (add the code for the proteins you want to the right place) | Apr 02 17:10 |
| MinceR | iirc some GMOs are already used to produce pharmaceuticals | Apr 02 17:11 |
| MinceR | insulin, for example | Apr 02 17:11 |
| MinceR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMO#Microbes | Apr 02 17:11 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Genetically modified organism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 199.12 KB | Apr 02 17:11 |
| qu1j0t3 | that is problematic as well | Apr 02 17:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | in fact, there was a major public health disaster caused by GMO production of hormones | Apr 02 17:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | a supplier switched to GMO without telling anyone | Apr 02 17:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | causing an epidemic of dramatic sideeffects | Apr 02 17:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | funny how none of this stuff makes it to the media | Apr 02 17:14 |
| qu1j0t3 | almost as if people would refuse this garbage given enough information | Apr 02 17:14 |
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| schestowitz | qu1j0t3: good video, good channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7L8bw5QF4 | Apr 02 18:07 |
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| schestowitz | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bWU3KakLt4 | Apr 02 18:14 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Noam Chomsky (MARCH, 2013) Rare Interview - YouTube .::. Size~: 143.5 KB | Apr 02 18:14 |
| schestowitz | on protest, agent provocateurs too | Apr 02 18:14 |
| MinceR | the conclusion should certainly not be "ban all GMO" | Apr 02 18:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | why not? | Apr 02 19:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | when none of them are safe or beneficial | Apr 02 19:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | and every single one is harmful | Apr 02 19:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | it doesn't bother you that every adverse finding is suppressed from the media? | Apr 02 19:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | doesn't raise an eyebrow? | Apr 02 19:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | the burden is on the corporates behind them to demonstrate efficacy and safety, and they have produced zero | Apr 02 19:02 |
| eikonos | but i just want some cheap hi-fructose corn syrup! | Apr 02 19:05 |
| eikonos | ;) | Apr 02 19:06 |
| qu1j0t3 | you have that already through much simpler means: Subsidies | Apr 02 19:11 |
| MinceR | your premises are incorrect | Apr 02 19:20 |
| qu1j0t3 | i see | Apr 02 19:22 |
| qu1j0t3 | i guess i better welcome Monsanto, the new Science | Apr 02 19:23 |
| MinceR | nope | Apr 02 19:23 |
| MinceR | GMO is not the same thing as mon$anto. | Apr 02 19:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | so Monsanto's popular offerings are unobjectionable? | Apr 02 19:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | there are some specific problems with RoundUp Ready for example | Apr 02 19:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | by no means is that safe for human food | Apr 02 19:24 |
| qu1j0t3 | again, fails tests | Apr 02 19:25 |
| MinceR | so mon$anto's offerings being harmful and unethical means all GMO is inherently evil and will remain so forever? | Apr 02 19:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | there may be some theoretical future GMO science that is safe. but today's is not. | Apr 02 19:25 |
| qu1j0t3 | and we should be concerned that we are lied to and given no choice in it | Apr 02 19:25 |
| MinceR | so how much of the genetically modified bacteria market does mon$anto control? | Apr 02 19:25 |
| MinceR | also, why ban theoretical future science when you can attack the real culprits instead? | Apr 02 19:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | GMO bacteria are not safe either, again - shown by experiment | Apr 02 19:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | i'd love to attack the real culprits. when do we start? | Apr 02 19:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | when does the media start doing its job? | Apr 02 19:26 |
| MinceR | tell me about this experiment that shows all GMO bacteria to be unsafe | Apr 02 19:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | look it up | Apr 02 19:26 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's not on Fox, sorry | Apr 02 19:26 |
| MinceR | so if m$ is abusing software, we should ban all software? | Apr 02 19:27 |
| MinceR | and how did Faux come into the discussion? | Apr 02 19:27 |
| qu1j0t3 | look up that public health disaster i mentioned | Apr 02 19:28 |
| qu1j0t3 | funny how that didn't make the evening news | Apr 02 19:28 |
| MinceR | url? | Apr 02 19:29 |
| eikonos | i have to agree that specific implementations rather than the general principle are the problem | Apr 02 19:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | indeed | Apr 02 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | also, a missing scientific process | Apr 02 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | when the system is corrupt end to end, we cannot trust the results | Apr 02 19:32 |
| qu1j0t3 | if science were applied it would be a different matter | Apr 02 19:32 |
| MinceR | http://i.qkme.me/6ff1.jpg | Apr 02 19:32 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Apr 02 19:32 |
| MinceR | the principle is not what should be banned | Apr 02 19:33 |
| qu1j0t3 | but it would be a nice start, to ban dangerous products | Apr 02 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | and also to criminalise the faulty process | Apr 02 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's how it used to work | Apr 02 19:34 |
| qu1j0t3 | but there is no responsible agency any longer | Apr 02 19:35 |
| eikonos | but when someone asks what's wrong, you can't say "all of it" | Apr 02 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | heh | Apr 02 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, you can, when the process is entirely corrupt. | Apr 02 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can't point to a single product for human consumption that has gone through an objective process | Apr 02 19:35 |
| eikonos | it's like being an editor and saying, "too many spelling mistakes; i had to burn the whole thing" | Apr 02 19:35 |
| qu1j0t3 | when there is no regulation, you can't trust any particular product. | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | the system has to be repaired before that is even possible | Apr 02 19:36 |
| eikonos | for example, i'd be a lot happier about GMO if DNA couldn't be patented, copyrighted, whatever | Apr 02 19:36 |
| MinceR | no, it's like being an editor and saying "too many spelling mistakes, i'll burn all the news agencies and presses" | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | but also, one has to respect the mass of suppressed adverse evidence | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | why is it suppressed? | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | why is there no actual conversation? | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | we know why | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | and it's not acceptable | Apr 02 19:36 |
| MinceR | because it's profitable for the ones in power for it to be suppressed | Apr 02 19:36 |
| qu1j0t3 | you expect safe results when that is the process? | Apr 02 19:37 |
| MinceR | i don't | Apr 02 19:37 |
| MinceR | but then the process should be changed | Apr 02 19:37 |
| qu1j0t3 | absolutely | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | but it's not just one dimension that's corrupt | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | there are at least three: | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | 1) the producer | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | 2) the regulators (haha) | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | 3) the media | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | all of these are broken. | Apr 02 19:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | so... | Apr 02 19:38 |
| eikonos | so each needs to be examined and fixed | Apr 02 19:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | damn straight | Apr 02 19:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | when do we start? | Apr 02 19:39 |
| MinceR | indeed | Apr 02 19:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | i agree that theoretically if these three are trustworthy and indeed benevolent actors, things can work well | Apr 02 19:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | this has been proven in brief social experiments | Apr 02 19:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | getting more and more distant in the past, though | Apr 02 19:40 |
| qu1j0t3 | i don't trust those three actors; there is considerable evidence all three are working against my interests. | Apr 02 19:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.marketwatch.com/story/execs-from-adobe-gates-foundation-nike-oracle-seattle-genetics-and-starbucks-among-powerhouse-presenter-lineup-for-les-usa-canada-meeting-may-14-16-in-seattle-wa-2013-03-21 | Apr 02 20:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Execs from Adobe, Gates Foundation, Nike, Oracle, Seattle Genetics and Starbucks among Powerhouse Presenter Lineup for LES (USA & Canada) Meeting May 14-16 in Seattle, WA - MarketWatch .::. Size~: 96.77 KB | Apr 02 20:01 |
| XFaCE | schestowitz: And then afterward they will join in a studio to sing a special cover of "We are the World" | Apr 02 20:02 |
| MinceR | 404 | Apr 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | XFaCE: lol, they are | Apr 02 20:47 |
| schestowitz | > On 04/02/2013 11:37 PM, Roy Schestowitz wrote: | Apr 02 22:56 |
| schestowitz | > Dietrich Schmitz has now clashed with no less than three #linux | Apr 02 22:56 |
| schestowitz | > advocates including two colleagues. Not good. | Apr 02 22:56 |
| schestowitz | > http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/04/colleague-exhibits-bad-behavior.html | Apr 02 22:56 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Colleague Exhibits Bad Behavior ~ Linux Advocates .::. Size~: 216.56 KB | Apr 02 22:56 |
| schestowitz | > ouch. this guy is a nut-case and needs medical help. | Apr 02 22:56 |
| eikonos | dear god. they spent that much time and energy arguing about nomenclature? | Apr 02 23:02 |
| MinceR | looks like Schmitz claimed that Debian was dead and irrelevant | Apr 02 23:05 |
| MinceR | well, he should just use n000buntu then and be happy with unity, indicator crapplets, CSD and all the other crap | Apr 02 23:06 |
| MinceR | s/000/00/ | Apr 02 23:06 |
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