Join us now at the IRC channel.
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2504925 | Apr 04 01:28 |
|---|---|---|
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "People in the UK now fit into seven social classes, a major survey conducted by the BBC suggests". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22007058 | Apr 04 01:28 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: BBC News - Huge survey reveals seven social classes in UK .::. Size~: 90.9 KB | Apr 04 01:28 |
| schestowitz | "Indeed - people sure can't help themselves when it comes to supporting that little thing known as the illusion of choice huh?! …Also, it puts a smile on my face to know that someone else also checks back with the Beeb to correct those who digest such belittling biased crapola ;D" | Apr 04 01:28 |
| schestowitz | [22:52] <TechrightsSocial> Title: 12 Million Americans Believe Lizard People Run Our Country - Philip Bump - The Atlantic Wire .::. Size~: 65.28 KB | Apr 04 01:29 |
| schestowitz | lol | Apr 04 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Fluffy, indeed! that's what comes to mind when you watch that animation! | Apr 04 01:42 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2505796 | Apr 04 01:42 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #cat #snow #snowmeow #fluffy #flood | Apr 04 01:42 |
| TechrightsSocial | Photo by didz@diasp.org: https://diasp.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_419bb89be3a2bdfa86b0.gif | Apr 04 01:42 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2505796 | Apr 04 04:41 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #cat #snow #snowmeow #fluffy #flood | Apr 04 04:41 |
| TechrightsSocial | Photo by didz@diasp.org: https://diasp.org/uploads/images/thumb_medium_419bb89be3a2bdfa86b0.gif | Apr 04 04:41 |
| schestowitz | "I like it fluffy :3" | Apr 04 04:41 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/100471497 | Apr 04 05:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | @Jose R Rodriguez (metztli)'s status on Thursday, 04-Apr-13 04:06:44 UTC - Identi.ca: ♺ @schestowitz "DON'T CONFUSE #DYING FOR #OIL… http://ur1.ca/d9dbo …WITH FIGHTING FOR #FREEDOM" http://ur1.ca/d9dcn #USAUSA! | Apr 04 05:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Why the war in Iraq was fought for Big Oil - CNN.com .::. Size~: 217.76 KB | Apr 04 05:17 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: http://file3.status.net/i/identica/metztli-20130404T040519-vnnpmp4.jpeg - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 11.86 KB | Apr 04 05:17 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 05:28:41 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell-social | Apr 04 05:28 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social is: TechRights.org | Channel #boycottnovell-social for http://TechRights.org | Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software :: please also join channels #techrights and #boycottnovell | Apr 04 05:28 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell-social set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Fri May 7 00:20:14 2010 | Apr 04 05:28 | |
| *pidgin_log (~roy@host86-152-46-14.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell-social | Apr 04 05:28 | |
| schestowitz | "9 hours of sleep last night. Big oops." | Apr 04 07:34 |
| schestowitz | No sleep tonight | Apr 04 07:35 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/jaymurtii/statuses/319636002769620992 | Apr 04 07:35 |
| TechrightsSocial | @jaymurtii: @schestowitz Why is that a problem? | Apr 04 07:35 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/rixstepnews/statuses/319653189207089152 | Apr 04 07:35 |
| TechrightsSocial | @rixstepnews: @schestowitz And look how the media spin it. | Apr 04 07:35 |
| schestowitz | BBC does its usual in the front page http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22020105 | Apr 04 08:36 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: BBC News - The Korean crisis - in 90 seconds .::. Size~: 86.77 KB | Apr 04 08:36 |
| schestowitz | at least they say it's nothing new | Apr 04 08:36 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/319818468369240066?t=1&refsrc=email&iid=69156b18-8bb7-412d-aa87-9ff2f6f64da3&uid=26603208&nid=4+251 | Apr 04 15:30 |
| TechrightsSocial | @fcassia: @schestowitz hi there Roy, any way to get a list of posts on http://t.co/69E0wBML7D ab keyword 'entrysm' ? | Apr 04 15:30 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Main Page - Techrights .::. Size~: 39.46 KB | Apr 04 15:30 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/319818634480455681?t=1&refsrc=email&iid=8c9703c6-da35-4c26-8a15-6b75606f7f5a&uid=26603208&nid=4+251 | Apr 04 15:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | @fcassia: @schestowitz ...or a comprehensive list of former Microsofties that landed at other firms? Any links will be of help. TIA | Apr 04 15:31 |
| schestowitz | https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/319818991919058946?t=1&refsrc=email&iid=a6d0bac0-f468-4eba-ace5-2b9a84f08553&uid=26603208&nid=4+251 | Apr 04 15:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | @fcassia: @schestowitz ah, nevermind. it was a typo. its entryism. :) site:http://t.co/69E0wBML7D took care of it. | Apr 04 15:31 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Main Page - Techrights .::. Size~: 39.46 KB | Apr 04 15:31 |
| schestowitz | Some posts as such don't say "entryism" -- a term I started using around 2009. Infiltrate and influence are worth checking too, esp. in Novell and its board. | Apr 04 15:31 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: eikonos https://twitter.com/metagaming/status/319272768707391489 | Apr 04 15:44 |
| TechrightsSocial | @metagaming: @aliendovecote money is congealed fear | Apr 04 15:44 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2507225 | Apr 04 16:37 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Linux Advocates: What Is Our Goal Here? http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/04/what-is-our-goal-here.html fair points, but editorial control kills the site | Apr 04 16:37 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: What Is Our Goal Here? ~ Linux Advocates .::. Size~: 234.91 KB | Apr 04 16:37 |
| schestowitz | > There used to be a McDonalds in the downtown of my home town near the | Apr 04 16:39 |
| schestowitz | > university campus. I think it was the first to be built in a style | Apr 04 16:39 |
| schestowitz | > other than the glass walls and yellow arches. In any case, it was split | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | > level and had a balcony. Back when sit-ins were popular, students | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | > protested there having a barf-in. Lots of vegetarians (IIRC) got in | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | > line and ordered big macs during the lunch rush. They ate them, went up | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | > to the balcony and then puked onto the crowds waiting in line below | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | > causing utter chaos. That's all I can remember and I can't find a write | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | > up online. | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | This is a brilliant form of protest. They get ill, so they get sympathy, and the effect of the protest has disgust all over it. This is creative protesting. | Apr 04 16:40 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Linux is achieving more than any other system | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | It is achieving ..... | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Like a master artist ..... the picture builds up slowly and all the flaws get dealt with one by one. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Like a master joiner ..... all the peices are crafted with loving care | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Like a builder ...... the foundations are solid ...... we do not have to go back and re make the foundations that it sits on. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | So .... do we need to add hardware changes to make it secure - NO | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Does it need some security patches adding because it can be cracked into in less than the time it takes to eat a ham sandwich - NO | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Why .... because ..... | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | What its trying to achieve is not the question that needs asking. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | What it has achieved and continues achieve is love and care from people that love using it ....... | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Other systems ..... who cares what they do. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | When a vehicle runs ok .... you do not need to mess with it - when you fix things .... its because little things break sometimes. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | When a computer system is dying ..... you need to re-invent it ..... welcome Windows8. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Linux does not need to make the mistakes of others to know that the future is bright. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Its covering all the ground it needs to ..... slowly but surely. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Mention something it cannot do ........ and someone will make sure that something is done to cover that item. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Speech .... Visual Effects .... 3D ..... Photography ..... Office Applications ..... | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Hardware Detection ...... | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | What does it need in the Future , more users and it will get them they are coming - as other systems are getting full of advertizing and spyware .......... and people are sick to death of it. | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | So ....... what to do carry on blocking the advertisers and keep to principals and morals that are difficult but lead to a better product for ALL PEOPLE ........ and at a price everyone can afford ...... SHARE ...... things it works out better for ALL | Apr 04 16:41 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 16:41 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: that is an impressive form of protest - barf-in. | Apr 04 16:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: first i heard of it | Apr 04 16:43 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2506885 | Apr 04 16:52 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: #capitalism #freedom #forsale #noam #chomsky | Apr 04 16:52 |
| TechrightsSocial | Photo by rocapc@joindiaspora.com: https://joindiaspora.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/images/thumb_medium_1256c474054ebc3758b6.jpg | Apr 04 16:52 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | ←---Libertarian-Socialist here. I love freed markets and liberty. | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | I posit that capitalism is a form of corrupt government; And yes, I mean the Ron Paul definition. | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | Private ownership (ie, privilege) over collaborative enterprises (a 'company' of individuals) or absentee ownership over social means of production (an assembly line, or machine shop, factory, apartment building) can only be propped up by the State, or some other type of gang activity (so-called 'security' forces). | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | These tiny dictatorships over Life are unacceptable to me, and so, the freed-market libertarian alternatives to these tyrannies are: sole-proprietorships, worker cooperatives, family businesses, and actual private property (property owned by the private individuals who use, or 'homestead' it, and not usury extortionists). | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | "Freedom is having control of your own life. Power is having control over someone else's life." - Richard M. Stallman | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 16:53 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2506735 | Apr 04 17:05 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Conspiracy Theory Poll Results http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html | Apr 04 17:05 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: Conspiracy Theory Poll Results - Public Policy Polling .::. Size~: 162.13 KB | Apr 04 17:05 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | These are conspiracy "theories"? | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | 14% of voters say the CIA was instrumental in creating the crack cocaine epidemic in America’s inner cities in the 1980’s | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Voters are split 44%-45% on whether Bush intentionally misled about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | 15% of voters say the government or the media adds mind-controlling technology to TV broadcast signals (the so-called Tinfoil Hat crowd) [Umm...this is an entire science pioneered by Edward Bernays. Flicker-rate, focus groups, repetition, gas-lighting, subliminal messages (not just talking flashing images), monkeys hooked up with electrodes in their brains, etc]. | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | 28% of voters believe secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world through an authoritarian world government | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | I suppose Operation Northwoods is a conspiracy theory too. Apparently if you possess any critical thinking ability, or even the tiniest grasp on current events and history, you're a nut. Strip out the loaded questions designed to marginalize non-Fortune 500 thinking, the bullshit about aliens, and blatant framing of the issues, and you've got yourself a pretty good weekend reading list. ;) | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 17:06 |
| schestowitz | Lumping up separate theories (e.g. NWO with aliens) helps dilute, distract, discredit by association. | Apr 04 17:07 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz | 28% of voters believe secretive power elite with a globalist agenda is conspiring to eventually rule the world // what percentage understands this has long been the case? | Apr 04 17:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/04/gnu-and-linux-its-not-just-about.html | Apr 04 19:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: GNU and Linux: It's Not Just About Attribution But Also Philosophy ~ Linux Advocates .::. Size~: 211.64 KB | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | I am not a FUDster, nor am I a hater, but a former colleague chose to level the suggestion that I was, when I (half-heartedly) suggested that he misused the GNU attribution. He wrote 'Ubuntu GNU/Linux' to which I responded: "it's Linux" (Ubuntu Linux). Many now out of pure practicality call it just Ubuntu. Our use of language is evolving and dialectic changes are a reflection of social norms, new technologies and paradigms. | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | In fact many again out of pure practicality refer to Linux Distros at large as Linux and you may label that any way you want. Even Wikipedia returns an abstract for Linux when the search term 'gnu/linux' is sent. | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | As you wrote, (paraphrasing) it is a distraction and diversion from the larger issues that present for Linux. | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Me: We have much bigger fish to fry. ;) | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 19:01 |
| schestowitz | I think this "former colleague" deserves a voice here. We must accommodate everyone's views no matter how inconvenient they may be to us, as long as there's no threat being made. | Apr 04 19:02 |
| eikonos | if you find yourself in an argument on the internet about nomenclature, pull the ripcord and get out of there | Apr 04 19:02 |
| schestowitz | I think this "former colleague" deserves a voice here. We must accommodate everyone's views no matter how inconvenient they may be to us, as long as there's no threat being made. | Apr 04 19:03 |
| eikonos | is "american cheese" actually cheese? | Apr 04 19:04 |
| schestowitz | it's that thing between your toes :-) | Apr 04 19:15 |
| qu1j0t3 | :[] | Apr 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2506872 | Apr 04 20:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | @schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared:  #jesus #respawn #just4fun #fun #funny #religion #joke #LoL | Apr 04 20:19 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type | Apr 04 20:19 |
| schestowitz | "Fucking lag! >:(" | Apr 04 20:19 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: eikonos http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/04/04/1649205/massive-data-leak-reveals-how-the-ultra-rich-hide-their-wealth | Apr 04 20:24 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Massive Data Leak Reveals How the Ultra Rich Hide Their Wealth - Slashdot .::. Size~: 292.43 KB | Apr 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | https://joindiaspora.com/posts/2507699 | Apr 04 20:34 |
| TechrightsSocial | @jaywink@iliketoast.net: Number of contributors to #Diaspora code up to almost old levels for March 2013 - awesome stuff! https://www.ohloh.net/p/diaspora/contributors/summary Let's make April even better - **everyone who has done a patch or has planned on doing one, submit one for April**! Also let's clean up those idle pull requests and get them merged in. PS. Ohloh is a pretty cool site. #diaspora-dev #community #ohloh | Apr 04 20:34 |
| TechrightsSocial | Photo by jaywink@iliketoast.net: https://iliketoast.net/uploads/images/thumb_medium_647b67013b89250dad92.png | Apr 04 20:34 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: The Diaspora Open Source Project on Ohloh : Contributors .::. Size~: 26.31 KB | Apr 04 20:34 |
| schestowitz | "OK that sucks - but then I don't think it's particularly harmful. There are also open source compilers following the C# spec. It's like saying boosting Java is evil because Oracle owns it." | Apr 04 20:34 |
| eikonos | i wouldn't say evil. i might say, "slightly less viable than it could otherwise be" | Apr 04 20:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | 'In 1856 Stonemasons in Australia decided that working for 8 hours a day, sleeping for another 8 and playing for the last 8 was a good idea. This is considered a world first.' | Apr 04 20:46 |
| eikonos | and if they didn't play by the right rules, what were the leaders gonna do? lock them in jail, then ship them off to a remote island somewhere? :P | Apr 04 20:47 |
| eikonos | like a friend years ago who had quit his job and then decided to come in late, stay out for lunch a long time and then leave early. "what are they gonna do, fire me?" and then they fired him | Apr 04 20:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | ship them off to a remote island somewhere // indeed, there is the UK. that should be far enough away. | Apr 04 20:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: what did he say next | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxadvocates.com/2013/04/gnu-and-linux-its-not-just-about.html | Apr 04 20:51 |
| eikonos | "they fired me" | Apr 04 20:51 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: GNU and Linux: It's Not Just About Attribution But Also Philosophy ~ Linux Advocates .::. Size~: 222.96 KB | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Not when it gets personal and unprofessional. That is where I draw the line and have done so. | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | P.S. Andrew Wyatt posted up a good response which I think illustrates how potentially silly this attribution thing can go: | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | It's worth trying to rebuild the bridge. Power in unity and compromises... | Apr 04 20:52 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | The mayor problem I see when we left "GNU" out of the equation is that newer generations will _incorrectly_ assimilate that it's all just "Linux" and that everything narrows to it - thus, the *utmost* importance to still grant credits to all the people involved in the GNU project and name the whole thing as it is: GNU+Linux. | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Let's not forget that while "Linux" in essence only refers to a 'technically outstanding piece of software' the term "GNU" carries a totally different purport, "to bring freedom to people through free (as in freedom) software". I think is worth the effort to explicitly note the "GNU" part. | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Finally I strongly disagree with Dietrich when he says we should move on and accept this as an evolved form of GNU+Linux, that's totally wrong! | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | We should all be conscious about all the good that the GNU movement and the GPL had brought to the software development and other social movements alike and be totally clear about what it represents. One can accept from people foreign to the F/LOSS to say "linux", but not the involved people that -one might think- knows what they are talking about. | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Last: "Linux" alone is just about companies, "GNU" is about people, that's why most companies strives so hard to advertise "Linux" and "opensource" instead "GNU+Linux" and "Free Software". | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | " | Apr 04 20:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | schestowitz: check the comments thread....... http://frombrusselstobeirut.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/whatever-happened-to-adnan-khashoggi/ | Apr 04 20:55 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Whatever happened to Adnan Khashoggi? | "From Brussels to Beirut" .::. Size~: 62.25 KB | Apr 04 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Companies don't like to be overly tied or associated with the FSF because it's less tolerant to some particular practices. I think that this, in part, is why the big press (and others) rebranded the system as "Linux"; then "Open Source" dealt another blow to GNU and Free software. Opportunists found a way to say, "thank you Richard, we'll take it from here." | Apr 04 20:55 |
| schestowitz | Throwing Swastikas over something you hate just for the sake of it makes you look gullible and easy-to-manipulate. | Apr 04 21:13 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/02/rep_louie_gohmert_we_cant_restrict_high_capacity_magazines_because_gay_marriage_leads_to_bestiality/ | Apr 04 22:57 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Rep. Louie Gohmert: We can’t restrict high-capacity magazines because gay marriage leads to bestiality - Salon.com .::. Size~: 152.63 KB | Apr 04 22:57 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/100484200 | Apr 04 23:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | @Jose R Rodriguez (metztli)'s status on Thursday, 04-Apr-13 21:54:54 UTC - Identi.ca: ♺ @schestowitz North #Korea [West's http://ur1.ca/d9oe6 ] press propaganda: lessons from #Iraq http://ur1.ca/d9oh8 | Apr 04 23:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type | Apr 04 23:01 |
| TechrightsSocial | -> Title: http://file3.status.net/i/identica/metztli-20130404T215452-hl5ctzs.jpeg - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 11.74 KB | Apr 04 23:01 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: XFaCE http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/industry-news/energy-and-resources/cp-oil-spill-in-northern-ontario-larger-than-first-reported/article10781522/ | Apr 04 23:02 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: CP oil spill in northern Ontario larger than first reported - The Globe and Mail .::. Size~: 93.42 KB | Apr 04 23:02 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: XFaCE http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/margaret-wente-advice-to-mr-harper-muzzle-those-mps/article10749814/ | Apr 04 23:05 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Margaret Wente: Advice to Mr. Harper: Muzzle those MPs! - The Globe and Mail .::. Size~: 83.51 KB | Apr 04 23:05 |
| eikonos | yeah, i want them muzzled too. they knew what the deal was when they got on board | Apr 04 23:20 |
| eikonos | plus they're anti-abortion, and we don't need to even discuss it. just don't get one | Apr 04 23:21 |
| eikonos | and if being silenced causes tension in the CPC, then that's fantastic | Apr 04 23:21 |
| qu1j0t3 | 'Sex-selective abortions, which are largely confined to certain immigrant communities, have been widely condemned by medical bodies, and can probably be combatted through vigorous public education.' | Apr 04 23:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | she mentioned the Easter Bunny earlier | Apr 04 23:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | i guess she got that memo from the Easter Bunny | Apr 04 23:38 |
| qu1j0t3 | >>>> vigorous public education. <<<< | Apr 04 23:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | unspecified: What this means | Apr 04 23:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | interesting fact: Harper exploits minority groups to get elected | Apr 04 23:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's a fairly well known technique for tilting a vote | Apr 04 23:39 |
| qu1j0t3 | he's perfected it | Apr 04 23:39 |
| eikonos | public education is like what's been done with smoking | Apr 04 23:42 |
| eikonos | ads, warnings on cigarette packets, etc | Apr 04 23:42 |
| qu1j0t3 | how is that going to solve the problem? | Apr 04 23:43 |
| eikonos | of smoking? | Apr 04 23:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | no | Apr 04 23:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | of sex selective abortion | Apr 04 23:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | hint: it won't. | Apr 04 23:43 |
| eikonos | education solves a lot of problems | Apr 04 23:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | not that one. | Apr 04 23:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | see also: Honour killings. | Apr 04 23:43 |
| eikonos | no? | Apr 04 23:43 |
| qu1j0t3 | you might as well say education solves the problem of religion or the problem of culture. | Apr 04 23:44 |
| eikonos | actually, education does a lot to solve the problem of religion | Apr 04 23:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | how would you solve honour killings? which is more or less the same problem | Apr 04 23:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: except it hasn't. | Apr 04 23:44 |
| eikonos | there's no 100% solution | Apr 04 23:44 |
| qu1j0t3 | hint: making murder illegal doesn't solve them. | Apr 04 23:44 |
| eikonos | right, but there's no perfect solution for preventing murder | Apr 04 23:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | so you're agreeing with me | Apr 04 23:45 |
| eikonos | if you're saying, you do what you can, then we agree | Apr 04 23:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | i haven't seen anything proposed to solve honour killings | Apr 04 23:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | and i don't believe education will solve either of those problems. | Apr 04 23:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | can you explain how it would work? maybe with an example? | Apr 04 23:45 |
| qu1j0t3 | no, i am not saying "we do what we can" | Apr 04 23:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | i'm _asking_ what effective measure is there? | Apr 04 23:46 |
| qu1j0t3 | if you think education, you'll have to be more specific. | Apr 04 23:46 |
| eikonos | http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/1447590-education-key-to-thwarting-honour-killings-experts-say/ | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | what message will cause a punjabi to think twice about aborting a female? | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: i am sure experts say that. | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | eikonos: but does it work? | Apr 04 23:47 |
| eikonos | http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/content/education-key-prevent-honor-killings | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, but does it work? | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | where are the numbers? | Apr 04 23:47 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Education key to thwarting ‘honour killings’, experts say .::. Size~: 86.32 KB | Apr 04 23:47 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Education key to prevent 'honor killings' | Violence is not our Culture .::. Size~: 23.89 KB | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | "Mandatory courses teaching what it means to be a Canadian citizen, aimed at students and immigrants, might reduce the risk of femicide or so-called “honour killings” in this country" | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | ^^ I call BS. | Apr 04 23:47 |
| qu1j0t3 | "might"? by what mechanism? | Apr 04 23:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | that line comes right out of a Cons talking point | Apr 04 23:48 |
| eikonos | it's like washing your hands after you use the loo. the best way to do that is education | Apr 04 23:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | "New immigrants and school children are captive audiences, offering the best opportunity to provide education about universal human rights" | Apr 04 23:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | ^^ | Apr 04 23:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | here's the problem | Apr 04 23:48 |
| qu1j0t3 | school children aren't doing the killings. | Apr 04 23:48 |
| eikonos | they grow up to be the next generation of adults | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | nor children of immigrants | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | yes, and they are not doing the killings. | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | so, solving wrong problem. | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | you know, that line above, is pure bullshit | Apr 04 23:49 |
| eikonos | if you've got a better idea, they'd love to know what it is | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | no | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | you're not reading me | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | that isn't even an idea | Apr 04 23:49 |
| qu1j0t3 | you can cross school children right off | Apr 04 23:50 |
| eikonos | well your idea that's an actual idea would be well-received | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | because they never were and never will be responsible for honour killings. ^^^ | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | agreed? | Apr 04 23:50 |
| eikonos | huh? | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | if you don't agree, then you may not understand tribalism in the new world. | Apr 04 23:50 |
| eikonos | anyone who has killed "for honor" has been a child years before | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | SCHOOL CHILDREN are not, and never were, and won't be, responsible for honour killings. | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | no. | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | you don't understand. | Apr 04 23:50 |
| qu1j0t3 | SCHOOL CHILDREN are not, and never were, and won't be, responsible for honour killings. IN CANADA. | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | that's not even part of the problem | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | we know this from who carries out honour killings. | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's not hereditary. | Apr 04 23:51 |
| eikonos | so you're saying that once there are no first-generation (or 0-generation) immigrants then the problem goes away? | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | no | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | however, first generation immigrants are doing the killings | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | and the infanticides, | Apr 04 23:51 |
| qu1j0t3 | abortions w/e | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | and that's it. | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | so we can cross school children off the list | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | that leaves us with "new immigrants" | Apr 04 23:52 |
| eikonos | so the solution is to disallow any immigrant who wasn't born here? | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | no | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | i'm breaking the sentence down for you | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | let's move on to "new immigrants" | Apr 04 23:52 |
| qu1j0t3 | "new immigrants ... are captive audiences, offering the best opportunity to provide education about universal human rights" | Apr 04 23:53 |
| eikonos | with education? | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | okay, so | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, that's the theory, yes. | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | this is a quote from one of your links | Apr 04 23:53 |
| eikonos | why didn't you just say this before? | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | i had to delete the schoolchildren part | Apr 04 23:53 |
| eikonos | fair enough | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | since it reflected a misunderstanding of the problem | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | so we can focus on | Apr 04 23:53 |
| qu1j0t3 | "new immigrants ... are captive audiences, offering the best opportunity to provide education about universal human rights" | Apr 04 23:54 |
| eikonos | but i don't see why the school children cannot also be educated? | Apr 04 23:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | sigh | Apr 04 23:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | here's a hint | Apr 04 23:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | people born here don't do this | Apr 04 23:54 |
| eikonos | yeah, i heard that the first time | Apr 04 23:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | so school children are irrelevant | Apr 04 23:54 |
| qu1j0t3 | this is a problem of culture | Apr 04 23:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | Canadian culture is problematic but not in these specific ways | Apr 04 23:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | so the theory is that you take a new immigrant | Apr 04 23:55 |
| qu1j0t3 | and you educate them about basic human rights | Apr 04 23:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | universal human rights* | Apr 04 23:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | will this work? | Apr 04 23:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | "Ms Hogben called for a concerted effort on the part of governments, social institutions and communities to eliminate the patriarchal attitudes that lead to the murder of women." | Apr 04 23:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | ambitious | Apr 04 23:56 |
| eikonos | hmm.. if you're right about this, then we don't need to give the flu vaccine to people who don't have the flu... | Apr 04 23:56 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, i'm asking. will it work? | Apr 04 23:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | does it look like it will work? | Apr 04 23:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's not working with smoking very well, btw | Apr 04 23:57 |
| eikonos | it's worth a shot | Apr 04 23:57 |
| eikonos | i see less people smoking | Apr 04 23:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | i see plenty | Apr 04 23:57 |
| eikonos | we'd need actual stats to know | Apr 04 23:57 |
| qu1j0t3 | maybe education works with smoking. i don't know. | Apr 04 23:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, let's say that AGGRESSIVE education is the answer, like Wente proposes. Or Vigorous. | Apr 04 23:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | cuz the ordinary kind won't work. | Apr 04 23:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | it's known not to work against tribalism, and the case study is religion. | Apr 04 23:58 |
| qu1j0t3 | i am just having trouble picturing this vigorous education in specifics. | Apr 04 23:59 |
| eikonos | http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120419132503.htm | Apr 04 23:59 |
| TechrightsSocial | Title: Anti-tobacco TV ads help adults stop smoking, study finds .::. Size~: 58.86 KB | Apr 04 23:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | people _want_ to belong to a tribe. | Apr 04 23:59 |
| eikonos | sure | Apr 04 23:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | well, this is also a somewhat deeper problem than smoking. | Apr 04 23:59 |
| qu1j0t3 | and once they belong, leaving a tribe is like leaving an identity. | Apr 04 23:59 |
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