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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: April 28th, 2013

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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[torproject/@torproject] Now in Barton room @TorProject speaking on Privacy and Anonymity @NEGiveCamp #negc2013Apr 28 00:13
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Corporate crime 28 00:46
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1319.29 KBApr 28 00:46
formic_fewt - use systemd or fuck offApr 28 00:53
formic_nobody likes you anymore, after finding out why fuduntu was axedApr 28 00:53
formic_"cause we're too dumb to deal with systemd"Apr 28 00:53
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sebsebsebhiApr 28 01:31
sebsebsebhey _Goblin you actuasly about ?Apr 28 01:31
sebsebsebhi roy_Apr 28 01:31
sebsebsebMinceR: Apr 28 01:31
sebsebsebXFaCE: Apr 28 01:31
sebsebsebfewt: Apr 28 01:32
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Children killed by Obama's drone attacks 28 01:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[torproject/@torproject] Thanks to @autosponge and @shadman, we have a functional branch, #negc2013 @negivecampApr 28 01:48
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1319.29 KBApr 28 01:48
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Commits in fuerza/fuerza:autosponge-github - Gitorious .::. Size~: 8.79 KBApr 28 01:48
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Morsi responds to leaks about torture and killing of prisoners 28 02:48
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1319.29 KBApr 28 02:48
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Guantanamo defense lawyers' emails secretly accessed 28 03:48
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1321.2 KBApr 28 03:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] HR1406 would remove overtime pay requirement, make it easier for employers to force mandatory overtime.Apr 28 04:01
TechrightsBot-trTitle: CBO | H.R. 1406, Working Families Flexibility Act of 2013 .::. Size~: 18.44 KBApr 28 04:01
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Urgent: Oppose coal-mining concessions on public lands 28 04:49
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 04:50
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] RT @climagic Happy 40th Birthday @imurdock! (Ian Murdock, Debian founder and the 'Ian' in Debian).Apr 28 05:38
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Lessons from Obama administration's drone lies 28 05:51
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 05:51
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] << oh, the horror>> the sad state of politics in !Canada ... Seriously? email from Justin Trudeau: "They're out spending us" !CDNpoliApr 28 06:35
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] rt @PstTnse Chillin' at the Hollow Tree, 1890s #Vancouver !CanadaApr 28 06:43
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Past Tense • Hollow Tree, 1890s  Source: Photo by the Neelands... .::. Size~: 29.43 KBApr 28 06:43
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Urgent: Oppose removal of key part of libel reform 28 06:51
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 06:51
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Apr 28 06:53
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] !CDNpoli Federal politicians use non-partisan climate group to meet in ‘safe space’ behind closed doors 28 07:01
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Federal politicians use non-partisan climate group to meet in ‘safe space’ behind closed doors .::. Size~: 21.75 KBApr 28 07:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[eebrah/@eebrah] mobile website that requires #Javascript to display ANYTHING! and does not indicate that it requires JS?, you have failed!Apr 28 07:23
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Urgent: Protect wild bison of Montana 28 07:51
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 07:51
iophk 28 08:09
TechrightsBot-trTitle: iTunes is 10 years old today. Was it the best idea Apple ever had? | Technology | The Observer .::. Size~: 150.08 KBApr 28 08:09
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Insecticide firms in secret bid to stop ban that could save bees 28 08:33
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Insecticide firms in secret bid to stop ban that could save bees | Environment | The Observer .::. Size~: 132.02 KBApr 28 08:33
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Thatcher's role in Apartheid 28 08:53
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 08:53
iophkpocket poolApr 28 08:54
iophk 28 08:55
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Bill Gates accused of disrespecting South Korean president during handshake - Need to know - .::. Size~: 57.83 KBApr 28 08:55
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Moody's Microblog Daily Digest 130427 - yesterday's tweets as a single Web page #MMDDApr 28 09:13
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] [RT] ease of finding info online makes us keen to know more about food we eat - yup (v @Steph_Steinberg @DrRimmer)Apr 28 09:13
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Moody's Microblog Daily Digest: 130427 .::. Size~: 68.26 KBApr 28 09:13
TechrightsBot-trTitle: GMOs: A Breakthrough or Breakdown in U.S. Agriculture? - US News and World Report .::. Size~: 49.85 KBApr 28 09:13
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The Revival of Tradition in France’s Forests - fascinating tale of the forest #commons (v @mbauwens)Apr 28 09:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: The Revival of Tradition in France’s Forests | Solutions .::. Size~: 63.65 KBApr 28 09:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] [RT] #china grows in importance to ‘NZ Inc’ - another reason #TPP is exactly wrong for #newzealandApr 28 09:16
TechrightsBot-trTitle: China grows in importance to ‘NZ Inc’  |  It's Our Future | Kiwi Voices on the TPPA .::. Size~: 25.63 KBApr 28 09:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #Pirate Party Enters #Iceland’s National Parliament After Historic Election Win - impressive & great news #isApr 28 09:18
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Pirate Party Enters Iceland’s National Parliament After Historic Election Win | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 31.62 KBApr 28 09:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Death Threats, a Fired Bullet and Cold Cells: Hear #Guantanamo Horror Stories as Mass Hunger Strike Continues - shameApr 28 09:25
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] [RT] Tackling "Monoculture of the Mind" - good analysis of blinkered, doomed approachApr 28 09:25
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Death Threats, a Fired Bullet and Cold Cells: Hear Guantanamo Horror Stories as Mass Hunger Strike Continues | Alternet .::. Size~: 108.38 KBApr 28 09:25
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Tackling "Monoculture of the Mind" | Common Dreams .::. Size~: 37.96 KBApr 28 09:25
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Fact vs. Fiction: How Renewables Outshine Fracking - some great graphs hereApr 28 09:26
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Fact vs. Fiction: How Renewables Outshine Fracking | Alternet .::. Size~: 108.03 KBApr 28 09:26
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] [RT] Bundesregierung bastelt mit üblichen Verdächtigen an EU-USA-Freihandelsabkommen - we demand #transparency nowApr 28 09:28
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Bundesregierung bastelt mit üblichen Verdächtigen an EU-USA-Freihandelsabkommen .::. Size~: 39.24 KBApr 28 09:28
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] $200 Intel #Android Laptops Are Coming - can't wait #linuxApr 28 09:30
TechrightsBot-trTitle: $200 Intel Android Laptops Are Coming - Slashdot .::. Size~: 119.83 KBApr 28 09:30
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Mayflower #tarsands Spill: Chemist finds benzene, AG investigates, residents organize - a "taste" of things to comeApr 28 09:31
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Update on Mayflower Oil Spill: Chemist finds benzene, AG investigates, residents organize : TreeHugger .::. Size~: 49.46 KBApr 28 09:31
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Insecticide firms in secret bid to stop ban that could save bees - shame on UK for fighting experts' advice on thisApr 28 09:38
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] (last via @corporateeurope)Apr 28 09:38
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Insecticide firms in secret bid to stop ban that could save bees | Environment | The Observer .::. Size~: 132.02 KBApr 28 09:38
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Very Urgent: Reduce military spending 28 09:55
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 09:55
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Is the NHS safe in his hands? - well-written article about tragic destruction of #NHS (v @marcuschown)Apr 28 10:20
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Is the NHS safe in his hands? | Express Comment | Comment | Daily Express .::. Size~: 99.88 KBApr 28 10:20
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Imprisonment and death of Sergei Magnitsky 28 10:55
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1325.14 KBApr 28 10:55
*oiaohm is now known as mhoaioApr 28 12:06
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Carbon-neutral by 2025 28 12:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Scientists on brink of #HIV cure - hmm: let's hope so... (v @mpesce @PME2013 @williamcrawley) #healthApr 28 12:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Farmers will lose their livelihoods 28 12:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 12:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Scientists on brink of HIV cure - Telegraph .::. Size~: 61.67 KBApr 28 12:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 12:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] 3D-films 28 13:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 13:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Heavy use of herbicide #Roundup linked to health dangers-U.S. study - important if confirmed #monsantoApr 28 14:21
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Heavy use of herbicide Roundup linked to health dangers-U.S. study | Reuters .::. Size~: 86.12 KBApr 28 14:21
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Glyphosate’s Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes & Amino Acid Biosynthesis: Pathways 2 Modern Diseases - #monsantoApr 28 14:25
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Entropy  | Free Full-Text | Glyphosate’s Suppression of Cytochrome P450 Enzymes and Amino Acid Biosynthesis by the Gut Microbiome: Pathways to Modern Diseases .::. Size~: 41.77 KBApr 28 14:25
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Obama's Grand Sell-out. 28 14:58
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 14:58
iophk 28 14:58
TechrightsBot-trTitle: BBC News - Iceland vote: Centre-right opposition wins election .::. Size~: 81.44 KBApr 28 14:58
iophkpirate party wins 3 seatsApr 28 14:59
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] RT @jpope Time to wake the !coffee pot.Apr 28 15:30
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] #YoCo time. Eating #yogurt and brewing #coffee.Apr 28 15:40
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lxoliva/@lxoliva] !GNU !Linuxlibre 3.8.10-gnu source tarballs and patches have been available for ~24 h, sorry I forgot to announceApr 28 15:55
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Urgent: Thatcher's legacy, support Green party 28 15:58
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 15:58
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] I won't have many chances to use that word. Isn't it popularly called "restless leg syndrome"?Apr 28 16:05
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] 138 updates available on #Sabayon lappy. #updates_SundayApr 28 16:36
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] Finished my #yogurt, but still working on the #coffee. #YoCoApr 28 16:36
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Bradley Manning is off limits at SF Gay Pride parade, but corporate sleaze is embraced 28 16:55
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] Industry-proposed royal charter further from Leveson than anything before 28 16:55
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Bradley Manning is off limits at SF Gay Pride parade, but corporate sleaze is embraced | Glenn Greenwald | Comment is free | .::. Size~: 142.58 KBApr 28 16:55
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Industry-proposed royal charter further from Leveson than anything before | Claire Enders | Comment is free | .::. Size~: 119.33 KBApr 28 16:55
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Urgent: Reject the Keystone XL 28 17:00
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 17:00
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] #DOMCrypt is an extension to expose NSS #crypto functions to the browser, accessible via Javascript. #security #pgp #gpgApr 28 17:06
TechrightsBot-trTitle: daviddahl/domcrypt · GitHub .::. Size~: 27.44 KBApr 28 17:06
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #Italy's first black minister attacked by Northern League - that didn't take long (v @LifeinSicily) #racismApr 28 17:10
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Italy's first black minister attacked by Northern League | World news | The Guardian .::. Size~: 117.6 KBApr 28 17:10
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lxoliva/@lxoliva] ♻ @fisl: Já inscreveu sua palestra? O prazo termina em 28.04, domingo! #fisl14 28 17:11
TechrightsBot-trNot a web page! Aborting text/xml typeApr 28 17:11
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 12.94 KBApr 28 17:11
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] The rise of patent monetization entities: situation in the EU and UPC developments - more patent trolls in EU?Apr 28 17:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: The IPKat: The rise of patent monetization entities Part Three: situation in the EU and UPC developments .::. Size~: 137.93 KBApr 28 17:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] New blog post: Two weeks under LCHF and I feel fine! 28 17:36
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Two weeks under LCHF and I feel fine! | FU-BAR .::. Size~: 36.28 KBApr 28 17:36
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Are #Geeks the New Guardians of Our Civil Liberties? - they have been since Richard Stallman... #freesw #rmsApr 28 17:46
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Are Geeks the New Guardians of Our Civil Liberties? | Q&A | .::. Size~: 38.16 KBApr 28 17:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #China's Going To Build Massive #4G Mobile Networks—Snubbing EU Companies In Process - no surprise (v @africatechie)Apr 28 17:56
TechrightsBot-trTitle: China's To Start Building 4G Networks - Business Insider .::. Size~: 140.22 KBApr 28 17:56
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Michael Jackson trial pits family against concert organiser AEG Live - "$40bn wrongful death lawsuit"; uh-huhApr 28 18:00
TechrightsBot-trTitle: New Michael Jackson trial pits family against concert organiser AEG Live | Music | .::. Size~: 130.69 KBApr 28 18:00
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Global scientists back 10-year moratorium on field trials of Bt food crops - "well-argued, scientific & fair" #indiaApr 28 18:06
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Global scientists back 10-year moratorium on field trials of Bt food crops - The Hindu .::. Size~: 76.14 KBApr 28 18:06
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Man accused of placing GPS device on victim’s car before burglarizing her home - at least he didn't use a drone...Apr 28 18:08
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Man accused of placing GPS device on victim’s car before burglarizing her home | Ars Technica .::. Size~: 35.95 KBApr 28 18:08
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Congratulations & the Hupacasath First Nation on hitting your goal of $150,000 to fight #FIPA #FIPPA !CDNpoli !CanadaApr 28 18:45
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TechrightsBot-trTitle: Icelandic Pirate Party WINS, Enters Parliament - Falkvinge on Infopolicy .::. Size~: 269.58 KBApr 28 18:58
*iophk1 is now known as iophkApr 28 18:58
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Derivatives take precedence 28 19:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] NYT "From Calm Leadership, Lasting Change" Sadly there is still plenty of #pesticide and #lobbyistsApr 28 19:01
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1330.71 KBApr 28 19:01
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Log In - The New York Times .::. Size~: 10.44 KBApr 28 19:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] yesterday: 28 19:05
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.25 KBApr 28 19:05
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] spring is here: 28 19:06
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.26 KBApr 28 19:06
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] leashed cat: 28 19:13
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] robin: 28 19:13
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.25 KBApr 28 19:13
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.25 KBApr 28 19:13
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] squirrel 28 19:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] cat rofl 28 19:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.25 KBApr 28 19:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.25 KBApr 28 19:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] sunshine on my shoulders 28 19:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] walking on sunshine 28 19:16
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.26 KBApr 28 19:16
TechrightsBot-trTitle: - .::. Size~: 11.26 KBApr 28 19:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[laurelrusswurm/@laurelrusswurm] Off to sit outside (without my camera or wifi) to work on !BlueFlame !amwritingApr 28 19:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] "cybersecurity is a proper career" - stop giving it such risible name, then...Apr 28 19:21
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 'Cyber Jedi' schools contest a new hope for Britain's IT empire to strike back | Technology | The Guardian .::. Size~: 134.14 KBApr 28 19:21
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] ♺ @x11r5: @lucky jubilation! He loves me again! I fall on the bench instead of indep us focus, and maurice walsh instead of 5 and 11Apr 28 19:58
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lwnnet/@lwnnet] GDB 7.6 released 28 20:00
TechrightsBot-trTitle: GDB 7.6 released [] .::. Size~: 6.08 KBApr 28 20:00
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Urgent: Oppose letting Koch brothers take over Tribune newspapers 28 20:03
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 2013: January - April Political Notes - Richard Stallman .::. Size~: 1332.76 KBApr 28 20:03
iophk 28 20:06
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Pirate Party Enters Iceland’s National Parliament After Historic Election Win | TorrentFreak .::. Size~: 90.28 KBApr 28 20:06
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] Projecto do BE p/neutralizar alguns dos malefícios do #DRM análise comparativa #pl406 CC #pl118Apr 28 20:08
TechrightsBot-trTitle: #PL406/XII | Cultura e Sociedade da Informação .::. Size~: 39.47 KBApr 28 20:08
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] 'Cyber Jedi' schools contest a new hope for Britain's ICT empire to strike back #steponedumpMSApr 28 20:15
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 'Cyber Jedi' schools contest a new hope for Britain's IT empire to strike back | Technology | The Guardian .::. Size~: 134.08 KBApr 28 20:15
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] To understand that open borders != end of poverty, consider effects of #NAFTA. 28 20:20
TechrightsBot-trTitle: If People Could Immigrate Anywhere, Would Poverty Be Eliminated? - Shaun Raviv - The Atlantic .::. Size~: 143.67 KBApr 28 20:20
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[satipera/@satipera] Facebook deserted by millions of users in biggest markets 28 20:26
TechrightsBot-trTitle: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.61 KBApr 28 20:26
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[ruiseabra/@ruiseabra] MPs from Bloco de Esquerda made a law project to neutralize some evils from #DRM, hope it passes!Apr 28 20:28
*fretwizzen (403ef436@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #techrightsApr 28 20:28
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] How Privacy is Lost - important post on how our #privacy & #dataprotection is being lobbied away #EUApr 28 20:30
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Light Blue Touchpaper  » Blog Archive   » How Privacy is Lost .::. Size~: 30.44 KBApr 28 20:30
fretwizzenBilk asked me to come here. What is his IRC name?Apr 28 20:30
MinceRmsb__Apr 28 20:30
fretwizzenThank youApr 28 20:31
MinceRnpApr 28 20:31
fretwizzenIs he here often?Apr 28 20:31
msb__fretwizzen: Hello!Apr 28 20:31
fretwizzenI suspect my messages to him may be getting forgedApr 28 20:31
fretwizzenHave you been emailing me msbApr 28 20:31
fretwizzenOr is that a forgery?Apr 28 20:31
fretwizzenI take it no emails?Apr 28 20:33
fretwizzenIf so I have made a grave mistake.Apr 28 20:33
msb__fretwizzen: The ip-address that you're chatting from here -- -- reports from nslookup as a nonexistent domain.Apr 28 20:33
fretwizzenSorry for the cloak and dagger but I have had to move from the abuse my family was getting. I am in semi-hiding so certain people can not find me.Apr 28 20:34
fretwizzen 28 20:34
TechrightsBot-trTitle: IP Address WHOIS | .::. Size~: 20.73 KBApr 28 20:34
fretwizzenIt existsApr 28 20:34
fretwizzenHave you been emailing me via a gmail account?Apr 28 20:35
msb__No, you have been emailing me from a gmail account.Apr 28 20:36
fretwizzenGood. Yours is Comcast.Apr 28 20:36
msb__Correct.Apr 28 20:36
fretwizzenI am testing to see if you are who you claim you are.Apr 28 20:36
fretwizzenAre these logs made public?Apr 28 20:36
msb__You know I am.  I put a temporary "Hello Steve" message at the bottom of my homepage for you to see.Apr 28 20:37
fretwizzenI did see that.Apr 28 20:37
msb__And you called me at my listed phone number.Apr 28 20:37
fretwizzenI also know that web pages can be altered by man in the middle attacks.Apr 28 20:38
msb__But you used an untraceable "burner phone" which I could not call back to.Apr 28 20:38
fretwizzenDid you hear of the ISP in Texas that was adding ads to major websites?Apr 28 20:38
fretwizzenI prefer to talk on Usenet and keep things there.Apr 28 20:39
fretwizzenOpen but I do not share anything private.Apr 28 20:39
msb__My phone number listing, phone number, ip-address traceroute, ip-address headers in my e-mails and usenet posts all match.Apr 28 20:39
msb__fretwizzen: You provide _none_ of those things.Apr 28 20:39
fretwizzenI sent you an email with my real IP in the headers. Apr 28 20:39
msb__Really?  Please tell me which e-mail and quote the header here.Apr 28 20:40
fretwizzenI will not quote the header here but I stated which one in the email.Apr 28 20:40
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msb__Most suspicious is when I told you in confidential e-mail something that gave Snit (whom you claim to oppose) an advantage in the debate that Snit and I are having in COLA, and you immediately posted that confidential information to COLA.Apr 28 20:41
fretwizzenSent April 26. Text includes "By the way check my IP. I am currently living in XX and you will see this from my headers."Apr 28 20:41
fretwizzenDo you prefer to keep discussions in COLA?Apr 28 20:42
msb__When I've asked you two or three times why you betrayed me like that, you have never given me a straight answer, but instead have just gotten huffy.Apr 28 20:42
fretwizzenWhen was the last time you checked your email?Apr 28 20:43
fretwizzenThere has been no betrayal.Apr 28 20:43
msb__Why did you post that confidential info from me to COLA?Apr 28 20:43
fretwizzenI know how to handle Snit. I have been tracking him for 10 years.Apr 28 20:43
msb__Why did you post that confidential info from me to COLA?Apr 28 20:43
fretwizzenThere as nothing confidential. Everything I posted blew up on Snit.Apr 28 20:44
fretwizzenBut if you prefer we can keep all discussions to COLA.Apr 28 20:44
fretwizzenThat was my stated preference right from the start.Apr 28 20:44
fretwizzenCheck your emailApr 28 20:45
fretwizzenThere are things I can not share here.Apr 28 20:45
fretwizzenI believe this is made publicly available.Apr 28 20:45
msb__No.  The info was about how my previous description of the PBS WTC construction movie was a bit inaccurate.  To Snit, that is powerful ammunition.  And you immediately posted it to Usenet where he could see it.  Why did you do that?  Please give me a straight answer.Apr 28 20:46
fretwizzenWhat made you think my domain did not exist?Apr 28 20:46
msb__That's what nslookup says -- server can't find NXDOMAINApr 28 20:46
fretwizzenSnit attacked you on it and you turned it around on him. Keep doing that. Take every point in his list and shove it down his throat. If there are some you can not turn around skip them and then keep shoving his errors at him.Apr 28 20:47
fretwizzenHe will stop posting to you.Apr 28 20:47
msb__Why did you post that confidential info from me to COLA?Apr 28 20:47
fretwizzenI show you the link above where it does exist.Apr 28 20:47
msb__Why did you post that confidential info from me to COLA?Apr 28 20:47
MinceRmsb__: that nslookup response merely means that there's no PTR record for that ip addressApr 28 20:47
fretwizzenI am teaching you how to beat Snit. He makes big lists of "facts". There are some true statements in what he says but lots of padding lies. Attack the lies and the whole house of cards falls down.Apr 28 20:48
msb__fretwizzen: Why did you post that confidential info from me to COLA?Apr 28 20:48
MinceRthere might be a domain name that resolves to it but it was not revealedApr 28 20:48
MinceRit does not mean that the IP address itself does not existApr 28 20:48
fretwizzenI posted what I did to help you do as I described in beating Snit. Apr 28 20:49
fretwizzenI have been doing it for 10 years.Apr 28 20:49
msb__MinceR: Thanks.  Traceroute does find a partial routing for it.Apr 28 20:49
MinceRnpApr 28 20:49
fretwizzenI can also give you his employers name and email address. Apr 28 20:49
MinceRwhois can also give you valuable info on IP addressesApr 28 20:49
fretwizzenAlso his wife's name and email address as well as his family membersApr 28 20:49
msb__fretwizzen: Why didn't ask me before posting that confidential info from me to COLA?Apr 28 20:49
fretwizzenI thought we were in agreement in how to stop Snit. Sorry if I crossed a boundry.Apr 28 20:50
fretwizzenSnit also posted some crap which was not true. Check his claimed headers and you can see they are forged. The IP addresses are not even true. Did you send that to him?Apr 28 20:50
msb__You thought I had agreed that you could post to COLA confidential info that I sent to you in e-mail???Apr 28 20:50
fretwizzenI thought we were working together to get Snit off your back. Apr 28 20:51
msb__That's what I thought too.Apr 28 20:51
msb__But when and how did I ever agree that you could post to COLA confidential info that I sent to you in e-mail???Apr 28 20:52
fretwizzenDo as I say. Take his lists and find the weakest points. Destroy those. Even if there are some points you can not destroy the whole list is ruined. Snit is not bright enough to figure out to use your own words. He uses his own "summaries" where are inevitably wrong.Apr 28 20:52
msb__But when and how did I ever agree that you could post to COLA confidential info that I sent to you in e-mail???Apr 28 20:52
fretwizzenI saw you did this to him with TruTV.Apr 28 20:52
msb__But when and how did I ever agree that you could post to COLA confidential info that I sent to you in e-mail???Apr 28 20:52
fretwizzenI though we had an agreement and a plan. If I was wrong I apologize.Apr 28 20:52
fretwizzenDo you prefer keeping discussions to COLA as I suggested?Apr 28 20:53
formic_lolApr 28 20:53
msb__That posting is something that only Snit would do!Apr 28 20:53
fretwizzenIf this is what you think then we should keep discussions to COLA.Apr 28 20:53
msb__formic_: Yeah, it is pretty funny -- a tempest in a teapot.Apr 28 20:53
msb__fretwizzen: No, if that's what I think then I shouldn't have anything to do with you.Apr 28 20:54
fretwizzenMy suggestion was to keep in in COLA to avoid this type of confusion. I am happy to go back to that.Apr 28 20:54
fretwizzenThen before we post to COLA we should get direct verification from the other.Apr 28 20:55
msb__But you told me that Snit was forging messages in COLA to appear to be from you.Apr 28 20:55
fretwizzenIn terms of anything we say to each other that is.Apr 28 20:55
fretwizzenHe has been doing so. Check the headers and you can tell which are his. He uses 10.8. I use 10.7Apr 28 20:55
msb__The only verification I can think of is a listed landline, and you say you don't have a phone.Apr 28 20:55
msb__No, a previous COLA article, which I pointed out to you, said OS 10.7, but was obviously by its content from Snit.Apr 28 20:56
fretwizzenI no longer have a phone.Apr 28 20:57
msb__I asked you for an explanation of that, also, but you ignored my question.Apr 28 20:57
fretwizzenWhich post/Apr 28 20:57
fretwizzenIf their is no trust here then we go back to talking just in COLA. Apr 28 20:57
fretwizzenI have told you of some of Snit's connections. Things are not as clear cut as they seem.Apr 28 20:58
fretwizzenDo not repeat info in this forum.Apr 28 20:58
msb__There's no trust in COLA either, because he can forge his headers there.Apr 28 20:58
fretwizzenWhat do you suggest?Apr 28 20:58
fretwizzenI have Snit where I want him. He no longer responds to me. Apr 28 20:59
msb__I've asked you to have a prolonged phone conversation with me, but you refused.Apr 28 20:59
fretwizzenIf you want help getting him to drop you from his targets I can. Apr 28 20:59
fretwizzenIf I am right though he has you in his sites.Apr 28 20:59
fretwizzenHave you checked your emails/Apr 28 20:59
msb__I don't care about Snit.  When he posts the same crap seven times in half an hour he looks like an idiot.Apr 28 21:00
fretwizzenI need to leave in a minute.Apr 28 21:00
msb__All I do is tell the truth.Apr 28 21:00
msb__Too bad.  I'll check my mail.Apr 28 21:00
fretwizzenSnit is making your comments seem like lies. He has his lists which someone skimming the group will see over and over.Apr 28 21:00
fretwizzenTo prove it is you please respond even if it is only with an acknowledgement of receipt. Apr 28 21:01
msb__Yep, lists of trivial questions which he can add to any time he wants.Apr 28 21:01
msb__Hold on.Apr 28 21:01
fretwizzenTake the easiest to answer and shove it in his face.Apr 28 21:01
msb__btw, doesn't your irc client show my ip-address?Apr 28 21:02
fretwizzenDo not reveal any contents of that email here.Apr 28 21:02
fretwizzenNoApr 28 21:02
fretwizzenWait. Yes it does. Apr 28 21:02
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Proposed bill to allow companies to demand employee's passwords 28 21:03
fretwizzenIP seems legit.Apr 28 21:03
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fretwizzenStallman is right to not trust phones.Apr 28 21:03
msb__Your second email is about something you received a message about.  And, no, it means nothing to me.Apr 28 21:04
fretwizzenOK goodApr 28 21:04
fretwizzenIs the description accurate in terms of you?Apr 28 21:05
msb__I figure my phone is tapped by the government because of my website.Apr 28 21:05
fretwizzenAlmost surely it is.Apr 28 21:05
fretwizzenI know mine was and I have no such website.Apr 28 21:05
fretwizzenI did add info to another out of country. Someone else Snit used to attack in CSMA about his CSS and other nonsense.Apr 28 21:06
fretwizzenI showed you where Snit was able to get some major sites to alter their info to "prove" his claims.Apr 28 21:06
msb__What, in the Wayback Machine?Apr 28 21:07
fretwizzenYesApr 28 21:07
fretwizzenWhat is shows is not always accurate.Apr 28 21:07
fretwizzenPlease keep info here vague.Apr 28 21:07
msb__That description in your second e-mail could apply to almost anyone.Apr 28 21:07
fretwizzenSome of it can but there are also rather specific details. Apr 28 21:08
fretwizzenPlease do watch for what I suggested. I hope you see nothing and it seems like you will not.Apr 28 21:09
msb__And how about the so-and-so's in that what-and-what's that you warned me about?  When I asked you who they were, you just told me to shaddupa my face.Apr 28 21:09
fretwizzenIf you do then watch yourself.Apr 28 21:09
fretwizzenI can not discuss those in detail. They are generally signs of an organization. They could also change their looks but from what I have heard they have those details to better identify each other.Apr 28 21:10
msb__ 28 21:11
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fretwizzenWhen I was in another state I saw them all the time. Their were different cars with that description parked within a few houses of mine almost every day. It was very creepy. Sometimes there were people in them but often not. I also had lots of cars following me that fit that description. Far more than you would expect by chance.Apr 28 21:11
msb__And this was because you were fighting Snit?Apr 28 21:12
fretwizzenNot just that.Apr 28 21:12
fretwizzenThere is a New York organization I used to investigate. Left New York years ago.Apr 28 21:13
_Goblinlol..... 28 21:13
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fretwizzenSnit has some powerful family members. Even as the joke of his family they wish was never born they can protect him.Apr 28 21:14
fretwizzenNot quite like MiB. :)Apr 28 21:14
_GoblinBilkie....come on , you know I have little time for your nonsense, but even I'm not cruel enough to allow you to be played like this in a public forum.....get a grip here...Apr 28 21:15
fretwizzenI am not playing.Apr 28 21:15
fretwizzenI am not saying that some mysterious MiB group is stalking him and is going to wipe his memory with a light. Apr 28 21:16
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] rofl #5liveinvestigates talking about #fraud while being funded by a taxpayer fraud #TVLicence #publicservicebroadcastingApr 28 21:16
fretwizzenMost of what Bilk says can be verified independently. Apr 28 21:16
fretwizzenHe has done his research. Apr 28 21:16
fretwizzenSnit has found what he thinks are holes. Bilk should shoot down even just a few of them and get Snit off his back.Apr 28 21:17
msb__The 9-11 research is very solid, and is now on hundreds of websites.Apr 28 21:17
fretwizzenLiving in NY I do wonder how many of the people there are from Earth. :)Apr 28 21:17
fretwizzenI think we all have a shared interest in making sure Snit is known to be a complete crackpotApr 28 21:18
fretwizzenFind the weakest of his points and tear them apart.Apr 28 21:18
msb__fretwizzen: I refuted all of them weeks ago.  He just made up more of them.Apr 28 21:19
msb__I have better things to do with my timeApr 28 21:20
fretwizzenI have seen his list. Hold on.Apr 28 21:20
msb__Yeah, he posts it about 50 times a day.Apr 28 21:20
fretwizzenEven Snit admitted you found a flaw in one. Keep reminding him of that. Then show him how many others are wrong.Apr 28 21:21
fretwizzen 28 21:21
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[thistleweb/@thistleweb] theres nothing like hearing the beneficiary of a taxpayer #fraud take the moral high ground about fraud #BBC #TVLicence #hypocrisyApr 28 21:21
msb___Goblin: Timmie, that MIB video is great.  I love it where the monster is dancing too.  And Linda Fiorentino -- wowie!Apr 28 21:21
fretwizzenHe will be forced to say not just one was wrong but 5 or 6 or 10. Then his house of cards crumbles and he shuts up about this. Apr 28 21:22
msb__fretwizzen: No.  As I said, he'll just come up with more.Apr 28 21:22
fretwizzenIf he does not just repeat the same info about how many places he is wrong.Apr 28 21:22
fretwizzenDoes not matter if he comes up with more. You have a list of ones he has admitted he was wrong about. Then he has to change his story. Apr 28 21:23
fretwizzenHe ends up being dead in the water.Apr 28 21:23
fretwizzenIf you have a list of mistakes he has made keep repeating them back to him.Apr 28 21:24
msb__fretwizzen: I have more important ways to spend my time.  Snit's behavior in COLA makes him look like a moron.  That's fine with me.Apr 28 21:25
_Goblinsorry...tuned out there....Apr 28 21:25
fretwizzenWhy do you think Snit no longer responds to me?Apr 28 21:25
_Goblinmsb__, thats the first thing you've said which I can fully stand behindApr 28 21:25
fretwizzenSure Snit looks like an idiot because he is one. He is also taking you down with him.Apr 28 21:26
_Goblinfretwizzen, well if he doesn't respond, is that not good?Apr 28 21:26
fretwizzenIt is great that Snit does not respond to me.Apr 28 21:26
_GoblinIf I was a betting man, I'd say theres a damn good chance the erstwhile fretwizzen is the same person as the Steve Caroll nym on COLA.Apr 28 21:27
msb__Snit isn't "taking me down" any more than all the other people who are so brainwashed by years of govt/media lies that they can't even access the 9/11 research info, and don't care about the 2,000,000 people murdered by the US govt after 9-11.Apr 28 21:27
fretwizzenDo a search for your name and your site. You will find Snit's seeding of his own info.Apr 28 21:28
msb___Goblin: Well, Steve Carroll and fretwizzen say they are the same person.Apr 28 21:28
_Goblinoh I didn't know....Apr 28 21:28
_GoblinI just caught the end of the drama.Apr 28 21:28
fretwizzenGoblin, I will not say. :)Apr 28 21:28
fretwizzenThe MiB might be watching.Apr 28 21:29
formic_goblin is one of themApr 28 21:29
formic_ties with the masonsApr 28 21:29
_GoblinshhhhApr 28 21:29
fretwizzenGoblin, how do you feel about Snit's list of herd behavior he posts?Apr 28 21:29
_Goblinan obvious bait to annoy people he dislikes.Apr 28 21:30
msb__There are dozens of smears against me found on google.  They originate from Microsoft agents like flatfish and from COINTELPRO agents trying to discredit the 9-11 research.  I have a web page about the latter.Apr 28 21:30
fretwizzenShoot it down. Prove just some of the points wrong. He will stop.Apr 28 21:30
_Goblinmsb__, Flatfish was smearing people long before you turned up and about many different topics......Apr 28 21:30
msb__ 28 21:31
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fretwizzenI do not think he is paid my MicrosoftApr 28 21:31
_Goblinthats why I call him a MS advocate.Apr 28 21:31
_Goblinyou'll never prove if he's paid....Apr 28 21:31
_Goblinbut he certainly has a promote MS agenda.Apr 28 21:31
msb__Flatfish has been attacking Linux in cola since 1998, IIRC.Apr 28 21:32
_Goblinwhich would be fine in a MS group.......the fact that he insults people personally to do it, isn't.Apr 28 21:32
fretwizzenBilk does a great job screwing with them about being paid but he is not serious about itApr 28 21:32
msb__fretwizzen: Of course I'm serious about it.Apr 28 21:32
_Goblinof course.......Apr 28 21:32
fretwizzenReally?Apr 28 21:32
fretwizzenYou think MS pays them?Apr 28 21:33
_Goblinbut delivery is off completely..... and his theories about 911 right or wrong are easy pickings for a MS advocate to cheapen.Apr 28 21:33
_Goblinand have nothing to do with Linux/Microsoft or free software.Apr 28 21:33
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msb__I point out that several of them have posted more than 30,000 anti-Linux messages each, and nobody would do that no matter how crazy they are without being paid.Apr 28 21:33
fretwizzenI think you underestimate insanityApr 28 21:34
_Goblinor have a business interest in MS succeeding.....Apr 28 21:34
_Goblinfor example a computer repair chap speciallizing in windows malware is hardly going to be happy about Linux.....for example.Apr 28 21:34
_Goblinthere's thousands of reasons......Apr 28 21:34
_Goblinor he could merely be insane.Apr 28 21:34
fretwizzenInsanity. It is what keeps Snit going.Apr 28 21:35
_Goblinnope.  attention from people like yourself.Apr 28 21:35
sebsebsebhi _GoblinApr 28 21:35
sebsebseb:)Apr 28 21:35
sebsebseblong time no chatApr 28 21:35
msb__30,000 messages each is a lot of insanity, and there are at least a dozen of them that are over 10,000 each.Apr 28 21:35
fretwizzenI keep on his ass to make him even more insane.Apr 28 21:35
_Goblinsnit loves an argument - I believe this is based in a desire to debate.  Unfortunately Snit, like many others has a delivery issue and gets into these long running overblown disputes.Apr 28 21:35
fretwizzenHe did some major wrongs to me in the past and I do not forgive easily.Apr 28 21:35
fretwizzenGoblin, gee, really? :)Apr 28 21:36
fretwizzenHe is also completely insane and can not make a reasoned argument to save his life.Apr 28 21:36
_GoblinI'm sorry fretwizzen but just like if Michael made such claims, I would stay out of it.....not my business its for you two to sort out without dragging everyone else in.Apr 28 21:36
fretwizzenHe used to go on about Bush being a war criminal. Insanity.Apr 28 21:36
fretwizzenSnit is destroying COLA.Apr 28 21:37
msb__fretwizzen: Bush _is_ a war criminal!Apr 28 21:37
_GoblinI am (apparently according to Flatfish) a cross dressing metrosexual who attends fetish clubs in luton and works for a costume jewelry shop......I don't drag you into that do i?Apr 28 21:37
fretwizzenHe has destroyed other groups and is doing the same there.Apr 28 21:37
fretwizzenGoblin, aren't we all? :)Apr 28 21:38
_GoblinIf youre opinion doesn't agree with Flatfish, then most probably.Apr 28 21:38
msb__fretwizzen: It's Microsoft's agents that have destroyed COLA.Apr 28 21:38
fretwizzenBush is no more of a war criminal than any of the last 20 presidents.Apr 28 21:38
fretwizzenSnit is able to get things going to insane levels. Look at how much things have gone down since he joined the group.Apr 28 21:39
_Goblinmsb__, why couldn't it be norton agents for example?Apr 28 21:39
_Goblinmsb__, surely its in there interest to keep Windows alive?Apr 28 21:39
fretwizzenI need to run. Will try to come back later.Apr 28 21:39
_Goblinor even Adobe?Apr 28 21:39
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] Reshared post from Jeff Siwanowicz 28 21:40
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Where would your club be without the top scorer? the top of the table... 28 21:40
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Jan Wildeboer - Google+ - Epic. .::. Size~: 215.05 KBApr 28 21:40
TechrightsBot-trTitle: 404 - Page Not Found .::. Size~: 2.73 KBApr 28 21:40
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Nandan Vaidya - Google+ - Where would your club be without the top scorer?… .::. Size~: 283.68 KBApr 28 21:40
_Goblinthey want to flog you aint on Linux, they don't want to develop it for Linux and don't want to invest in making it fully wine compliant....Apr 28 21:40
_Goblinwhy couldn't it be Adobe?Apr 28 21:40
sebsebseb_Goblin: 30 minute talk oppertunity :dApr 28 21:40
_Goblinhi sebsebseb how are you?Apr 28 21:41
msb__Well, let's see.  We have Truman who nuked Japan when he knew they wanted to surrender.  Clinton who attacked Serbia  using Al-CIA-DUH and then bombed them  OBomber, who destroyed Libya and is now attacking Syria (and continuing Bush's attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan).  They are all mass murderers -- war criminals.Apr 28 21:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: coming up for me in front of a load of people :dApr 28 21:41
_Goblinmsb__, what about Blair?Apr 28 21:41
sebsebseb,but I only really done about five minutes by so far the most public speaking so hmmApr 28 21:41
_Goblin:)Apr 28 21:41
sebsebsebabout five minutes by mostApr 28 21:41
sebsebseb,but should be alrightApr 28 21:41
sebsebsebwanted to do a longer talk at OGG Camp last year, but then things went wrong that weekend insteadApr 28 21:42
sebsebseb_Goblin: yep I am alrightApr 28 21:42
_GoblinI bet you've had much experience since we last talked? How long has it been? 6 months,  a year?Apr 28 21:42
sebsebsebfor public speaking no not really, but I did join this like club or well will be for thatApr 28 21:42
sebsebsebdid a talk there the other week about this lovely desert I had in Belgium :dApr 28 21:42
*fretwizzen has quit (Quit: Page closed)Apr 28 21:42
_Goblinand if you can recall our conversation all those months ago..... I was right wasn't I?Apr 28 21:42
sebsebseb_Goblin: went on the HPR new years  podcast to for example :dApr 28 21:42
sebsebsebyou were right about what ?Apr 28 21:43
sebsebsebthis local event is coming up again where I did a talk last yearApr 28 21:43
_Goblinabout getting involved and how well you'd taken to it.Apr 28 21:43
sebsebsebif I play the game right who knows could lead into loads of other oppertunites :dApr 28 21:43
sebsebsebor a few at leastApr 28 21:43
msb__To the extent of Brit participation in the mass murder in Iraq, Blair too.Apr 28 21:43
_Goblinmsb__, Blair was complicit......Apr 28 21:44
sebsebseb_Goblin: potential emlployeers in audiance you see etc etc well should beApr 28 21:44
sebsebseb_Goblin: some at leastApr 28 21:44
_Goblinmsb__, I may not agree with your 911 theories, but I am a George Galloway supporter......met him personally on many occasions.Apr 28 21:44
sebsebseb_Goblin: only thing is if it's a room I get longer, and it's not in fornt of everyone,  if I have a lightnign talk again it's in front of like everyone, but then really shortApr 28 21:44
_GoblinNext thing you'll be working for Canonical! ;)Apr 28 21:45
sebsebseb_Goblin: so I got a LUG to talk about for lke 10 minutes, and then the plan is to,  do a more general Linux  opensource/freesoftware type one for the 30 minutesApr 28 21:45
sebsebsebwell 30 minutes  or so including any Q&AApr 28 21:45
msb___Goblin: Timmie, they are not "my theories".  They are the result of solid scientific research, presented on hundreds of websites, and understood by tens of millions of people.Apr 28 21:45
sebsebseb_Goblin: Canonical don't think so,  since Mageia yeahApr 28 21:45
sebsebseb_Goblin: ,but there is some LInux interset around here and stuff like thatApr 28 21:46
sebsebsebI was thinking a kind of like mini autobiogrpahy about myselfApr 28 21:46
sebsebsebwhen it comes to how I got invovled, and certian expereinces I have hadApr 28 21:46
sebsebsebI mean some people will remember me there from last yearApr 28 21:46
msb__Yes, Galloway is great!Apr 28 21:46
sebsebseband like a general focus on Linux opensource/freesoftware in general,  and how it can lead to certain oppertnites and suchApr 28 21:46
sebsebseband what that means, events etcApr 28 21:46
sebsebseb_Goblin: and a bit about how I got into computer stuff,  and a bit about why I decided to get invovled with Mageia to some extent here and there, and stuff like thatApr 28 21:47
sebsebsebI Mean I got 30 minutesApr 28 21:47
sebsebsebso want to do something nice and generalApr 28 21:47
sebsebseb_Goblin: already got slides from OGG Camp last year on a USB stick here  one of them,  so I got  like a slides basis already,  my idea from last year,  the one that never happended since yeahApr 28 21:48
sebsebsebso  I'll make similar slides for the event that's coming up and :)Apr 28 21:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[webmink/@webmink] If you're going to be where I'm going to be in the USA I'd love to see you: 28 21:48
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] After Free Software/Open Source, Open Hardware and Creative Commons and looking at Monsanto et al, these people loudly... 28 21:48
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sebsebseb_Goblin: do some practice runs in my headset and  should be alright yeahApr 28 21:48
sebsebseband go out there with loads of exitement  and such like last time :dApr 28 21:48
sebsebseband  remember that lke everyone watching actsauly wants to be there, they choose to be there, so really are my audiance :dApr 28 21:49
sebsebseb_Goblin: now I think I need to get hold of one of those newer Mageia t-shirst at least if possibel,  the bluer ones,  would go better with my black jeans I guess :d  than the older black t-shirtApr 28 21:50
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Julius De Keizer 28 21:50
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-TRIdentica/#techrights-[jwildeboer/@jwildeboer] The Beaglebone Black has Node.js baked in. Wow. That's hard to resist. A cheap platform for a lot of things. Hm.Apr 28 21:58
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from DeWitt Clinton 28 22:00
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_GoblinI'm returning to Sabayon....Apr 28 22:00
_Goblinsince the family have tablets et al, the desktop machine no longer needs to be Ubuntu (which the family loved and used to use regularly)Apr 28 22:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Monsanto exerts power over Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics 28 22:03
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formic_sabayon is so slow tho tbhApr 28 22:04
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Alasdair Allan 28 22:08
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_Goblinformic_, I'll get back to you on that...its been a few years...Apr 28 22:10
_Goblinhere.....Apr 28 22:11
_Goblinlet me run this one past the group......Apr 28 22:11
_Goblinit will be interesting to gauge opinion....been having a very interesting debate on the topic....Apr 28 22:11
_GoblinProprietary gaming - Good or bad?Apr 28 22:12
_Goblinand why?Apr 28 22:12
MinceRcan be good, but free software gaming is betterApr 28 22:12
MinceRrelatively little rests on your freedom in this case, but modding is goodApr 28 22:12
MinceRand no game is as moddable as the free software oneApr 28 22:12
MinceRespecially if the assets are free as wellApr 28 22:13
_GoblinMinceR, would you agree or disagree though that the gaming industry is a very different fish to the utility one...Apr 28 22:13
_GoblinIMO: Games are consumed, transient and of short life.... Utilities have users.Apr 28 22:14
_Goblinand are generally the foundation for years of computing.Apr 28 22:14
MinceRdifferent, but not sure about the "very" bitApr 28 22:14
MinceRespecially if you put resources into moddingApr 28 22:14
_Goblinbut the consumer doesn't do much modding (in a sense other than level editing)Apr 28 22:15
_Goblinand FOSS titles are hardly friendly to the gamer who wants to modApr 28 22:15
_Goblin(any more or less than a proprietary title)Apr 28 22:15
MinceRactually, more soApr 28 22:15
_Goblinwhat proprietary or FOSS?Apr 28 22:15
MinceRyou get to change the game engine itself and you get to redistribute the game with your mod if you want toApr 28 22:16
_Goblinbut the bulk of the gamers, the consumers don't have these skills....Apr 28 22:16
MinceRthey get to use the modsApr 28 22:16
_Goblinand does a game really last long enough to invest the time to use the mods....Apr 28 22:16
MinceRanother point is DRM & co.Apr 28 22:16
_Goblinhave you a FOSS example of great modding?Apr 28 22:16
_Goblin(btw DRM aside, because yes that is awful)Apr 28 22:16
MinceRnot sure of mods, but xonotic looks very moddable to meApr 28 22:17
MinceRhm, iirc there was some good modding of sauerbratenApr 28 22:17
_Goblin"some good" but is this a title thats captured the hearts and minds of the gamer.Apr 28 22:17
MinceRi did some quake modding myself and i can see that xonotic has all that capability and moreApr 28 22:17
_GoblinAlien Arena is great.....but it isn't COD and people want CODApr 28 22:17
_Goblinand are there any FOSS games that are not still WIP?Apr 28 22:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Number 10 hands out #Twitter exclusives to favoured journalists - shows it matters (v @MikejMcDermott @marcuschown)Apr 28 22:18
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[gotunandan/@gotunandan] Reshared post from Robert Scoble 28 22:18
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_Goblin(and I mean modern titles the consumer wants)Apr 28 22:18
MinceRSpring/XTA didn't look WIP at allApr 28 22:18
_Goblinnot heard of that title.Apr 28 22:18
MinceRi don't know what that "consumer" wants and i don't care much -- they'll get their locked-down console games :>Apr 28 22:19
MinceRalso, dumbed-downApr 28 22:19
_Goblinyes but games (unlike utils) are disposable....Apr 28 22:19
_GoblinI won't be playing Space Marine in 10 years timeApr 28 22:19
_GoblinI will be using OOApr 28 22:19
MinceRFPS games can be developed incrementallyApr 28 22:19
MinceRand they often areApr 28 22:20
_Goblinbut then you also have the issue of the arts....I don't want to play Alien Arena with a dodgy looking character, I want to play something from the Warhammer universe.Apr 28 22:20
MinceRthen you're stuck with paying GWApr 28 22:21
_Goblinand I don't want to start playing whilst its still in development.... The consumer wants it complete, they want it now and they want it with cut scenes and music scores.Apr 28 22:21
MinceRand their licenseesApr 28 22:21
_Goblinor alternatively I'm stuck with a FPS that doesn't have the characters I want to play.Apr 28 22:21
MinceRi don't care for cutscenesApr 28 22:21
_Goblinno, bad example.Apr 28 22:21
_GoblinI hate them tooApr 28 22:21
MinceR:>Apr 28 22:22
_Goblinespecially the ones you can't skip.Apr 28 22:22
_Goblininfact ironically.......the only complete FOSS gaming I've seen are the emulator projects that emulate proprietary software from yesteryear.Apr 28 22:22
_GoblinEternal lands - Great RPG - still WIPApr 28 22:22
_GoblinRizcom - Great RPG - still WIPApr 28 22:23
_GoblinTux Racer - Fun little game - is that finished yet?Apr 28 22:23
MinceRi don't know itApr 28 22:23
_Goblina game by nature won't keep your interest over years and years whilst its forked, worked on a modded to a final product.Apr 28 22:23
_GoblinI just think the gaming model is not suited to a FOSS ethos.....thats partly (or mostly due to the consumer and the disposable nature of gaming)Apr 28 22:24
MinceRthere were some nice free doom ports too (though the assets are obviously nonfree)Apr 28 22:24
_Goblinalso....If I am restricted to GW and Space Marine, what harm is there? Its very different to be stuck with MS Office and file formats for my docs which are not compatible....  In a years time I won't want to look at Space Marine again.Apr 28 22:25
MinceRi think FPS doesn't have to be disposable and is thus a good fit for free gamingApr 28 22:25
MinceRindeed, it's differentApr 28 22:25
MinceReven if you have only your memories to show for it, you had funApr 28 22:26
_Goblinironic that the "FOSS" FPS titles - many have a proprietary origin.Apr 28 22:26
MinceRindeedApr 28 22:26
_Goblinand looking at FOSS FPS..they are hardly to the standard of say KillZone...Apr 28 22:26
formic_or Battlefield 3Apr 28 22:26
_Goblinor infact even a console game of 4 years agoApr 28 22:26
_GoblinyepApr 28 22:26
MinceRi don't know killzoneApr 28 22:26
MinceRand i don't care much for non-futuristic, non-fantasy FPSApr 28 22:27
formic_even Half Life 2 is ahead of FOSS gamesApr 28 22:27
formic_came out in 2004Apr 28 22:27
MinceRthey're much more limitedApr 28 22:27 futuristic FPS......a little like gears of war or Halo...Apr 28 22:27
formic_doom3 is open source now, but nobody touches itApr 28 22:27
_Goblinformic_, agreed....Apr 28 22:27
_Goblinand why? Because to make a successful game (or one that is demanded by a consumer) you need something very different to the FOSS way of working....Apr 28 22:28
MinceRdepends on what you want -- to sell games or to have funApr 28 22:28
_GoblinI mean Alien Arena is available for all why are people prepared to pay for COD (and que outside of shops) yet not wanting to download AA for free.Apr 28 22:28
formic_COD is betterApr 28 22:29
_Goblinyep.Apr 28 22:29
_Goblinand why?Apr 28 22:29
_Goblinits completeApr 28 22:29
MinceRCoD is better knownApr 28 22:29
_Goblinits polished.Apr 28 22:29
_GoblinMinceR, yepApr 28 22:29
_Goblinbut unlike say trying to convince someone to remove windows and install linux, AA is available on all formats.Apr 28 22:29
MinceRalso, AA seems to have nonfree assetsApr 28 22:30
formic_when it comes to creative work, paid devs do a better jobApr 28 22:30
_Goblinplenty of indi android games get past the PR of larger devs.Apr 28 22:30
formic_their job depends on itApr 28 22:30
_Goblinwhy?Apr 28 22:30
_Goblinword of mouthApr 28 22:30
MinceRformic_: yeah, that worked out so well for OS developmentApr 28 22:30
formic_I wouldn't say thats creative workApr 28 22:30
_GoblinI think in respect of gaming though thats correctApr 28 22:30
MinceRyet their job depended on itApr 28 22:30
_GoblinDavid Braben....Apr 28 22:30
_GoblinI look at WOW and compare it to (I believe) all MMORG's available on Linux (as I believe I've tried them all)....... there's no great things to be had with the FOSS titles, no experiences like the proprietary WOW, sure you have to pay, but then its a personal choice for for WOW or don't.Apr 28 22:32
_GoblinI'm exampling BTW I played WOW years longer.Apr 28 22:32
_Goblinfunnily enough, I removed myself from what people would say was "locked in" WOW....and found the alternatives which were free, lacking...Apr 28 22:33
_Goblinof course, the same can't be said with Utility/operating system and maybe the idea of FOSS gaming will become more moot as the PC gamer migrates to consoles.Apr 28 22:34
MinceRlet themApr 28 22:35
MinceRmost of them seem to be OK with dumbed-down, DRM-encrusted, bug-ridden gamesApr 28 22:36
MinceRthat can't be moddedApr 28 22:36
MinceRpeople even got used to controlling an FPS with a gamepad :>Apr 28 22:36
formic_steam workshop :PApr 28 22:36
formic_I got plenty of mods for torchlight 2Apr 28 22:36
_Goblinbut DRM on the consoles doesn't have an respect of the experience...Apr 28 22:36
_Goblinnot like Sim-Shitty for exampleApr 28 22:37
MinceRif it really doesn't, they'll make it worseApr 28 22:37
_GoblinMinceR - Little Big Planet....a good example of a proprietary title where moding can and does happen.Apr 28 22:37
_Goblinand thats all the consumer demands....Apr 28 22:38
formic_fun gameApr 28 22:38
formic_you can use the eye toy to capture IRL itemsApr 28 22:38
_GoblinI got annoyed with it....Apr 28 22:38
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[newtonx/@newtonx] Welcome to Chairman Mao Town 28 22:38
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_GoblinI do like the mechanics....rather clever.....but the modding?Apr 28 22:38
_Goblinwhat happened there...?Apr 28 22:38
_Goblingive the average user the ability to be creative, let them post their "work" online.....Apr 28 22:39
_Goblinand you get....Apr 28 22:39
_Goblina right load of b*ll*cksApr 28 22:39
_GoblinMaybe I've managed to talk myself out of the idea that modding is good....Apr 28 22:39
MinceRif you can choose which mods to use, it doesn't matter if the average is crapApr 28 22:40
MinceRbesides, Sturgeon's Law appliesApr 28 22:40
_Goblinon LBP its rather difficult, so many people thinking they are being creative....Apr 28 22:40
_Goblinyep....ban modding...thats my new stance now ;)Apr 28 22:40
_Goblinits like when you get a highlevel language like GMC released.... everyone thinks they are a coder, goes out and is creative and you get an influx of complete papApr 28 22:41
MinceRo_OApr 28 22:41
_GoblinI remember DarkBasic Pro too.....oh the horror.Apr 28 22:41
MinceR"ban modding" is like "ban development by independent developers"Apr 28 22:42
_GoblinAMOS on the we laughed at people using that....until the PD scene was flooded with 1000's of titles of rubbish.Apr 28 22:42
MinceRalso, i know that the best doom levels i've ever played were modsApr 28 22:42
_GoblinI was sort of being sarcastic! :)Apr 28 22:42
_Goblinat the expense of LBPApr 28 22:43
MinceRicApr 28 22:43
_Goblinclosed src served the Amiga demoscene very well...infact you wouldn't have had the competition without it.Apr 28 22:43
_Goblinand some of the boundary pushing of the hardware would never have ocurred if we were not trying to get one over on each other....Apr 28 22:44
MinceRgetting one over the other is possible with free softwareApr 28 22:45
_GoblinAh...the phenomena cube with a 3d plane on each of its faces, rotating in a star field.........happy times.Apr 28 22:45
_Goblinbut not sharing the code (as in the demo scene) meant we didn't rely on modifying anothers, we had to solve our own problems.Apr 28 22:45
_Goblinand came up with many unique solutions which I don't believe would have happened if the demoscene worked off a FOSS ethos.Apr 28 22:46
MinceRand you came up with the same solution over and overApr 28 22:46
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] Reflections on Iceland’s Election of Pirate MPs - by the man who started it all...Apr 28 22:46
_Goblinnot really because it was all to do with outdoing others.Apr 28 22:46
MinceRlots of wasted effortApr 28 22:46
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_Goblinfor example....Apr 28 22:46
_Goblinthe 4 level paralax scroll.Apr 28 22:46
_Goblinyou couldn't release your own, you had to go one better.Apr 28 22:47
_Goblinthe rotating cube....Apr 28 22:47
_Goblinthe scrolling text....Apr 28 22:47
_Goblinthe compression of code....Apr 28 22:47
MinceReven if you could see how it was done, everyone would already know who did it firstApr 28 22:47
_Goblinthats why you had to outdo...Apr 28 22:47
MinceRin fact, the code would have attributionApr 28 22:47
MinceRso where's the advantage of closed code?Apr 28 22:47
_Goblinbecause of the competition between crews....they saw one crew push the boundaries and they pushed them further.Apr 28 22:48
_Goblininstead of looking at someone elses solution, you had to create your own.Apr 28 22:48
_Goblinmade for variety and an exciting demoscene.Apr 28 22:49
_Goblinand also made better coders...Apr 28 22:49
_Goblininstead of the highlevel language cut and pasters we have today with dev tools that hold handsApr 28 22:49
_GoblinDevpac2, Dpaint and a soundtracker util were all we had.Apr 28 22:50
_Goblinunlike today.Apr 28 22:50
MinceRso you're saying that the free software community is just a bunch of "cut and pasters"?Apr 28 22:50
_Goblinno....not at all.Apr 28 22:50
_Goblinof course in utility world its very have file standards, compatibility with other packages expectations of other FOSS users.Apr 28 22:51
MinceRthat is not all that free software is about.Apr 28 22:51
_Goblinbut really, is there much innovation left in utilities (compared to that of the demoscene of yesteryear)Apr 28 22:51
MinceRindeed, there isApr 28 22:52
_GoblinMinceR, of course, and the demoscene was a very different thing to what we have point being though...Apr 28 22:52
_Goblinas coding has become more friendly, more hand holding (and theres a google answer for everything) we have brought in a generation of coders with dimished skills compared to yesteryear.Apr 28 22:52
_GoblinFor example:Apr 28 22:52
_GoblinCan anyone honestly name a coder of recent times who in any way compares to the achievement of David Braben (Elite)Apr 28 22:53
MinceRallowing people to learn doesn't diminish their skillsApr 28 22:53
_Goblinno, but I do think it lowers standards....Apr 28 22:53
MinceRdon't allow them to lower yours :>Apr 28 22:54
_Goblinhow many great coders of today can you name? compared to the 80's 90'sApr 28 22:54
_GoblinMinceR, my coding days died with the Amiga.Apr 28 22:54
MinceRnot sure, i always paid more attention to the software than the peopleApr 28 22:54
_Goblinexactly...and I'd suggest one of the reasons for that is the "wow" factor has gone.Apr 28 22:54
_GoblinIf I asked you to make a space invaders game in the language of your choice it would take you what, an hour?Apr 28 22:55
MinceRgreat software is more important than the "wow" factorApr 28 22:55
MinceRespecially considering how far software development got since thenApr 28 22:55
MinceRmaking another space invaders is not an interesting taskApr 28 22:56
_GoblinNow if I took you back to the late 80's and gave you devpac 2 how long would that take you to code it in a68kApr 28 22:56
MinceReven if you had no access to the code of preexisting implementationsApr 28 22:56
MinceRso, less effective development is a good thing? :>Apr 28 22:56
_Goblincoders today (and this is generally) in my view... know "how" to do something but don't know "why" it works.Apr 28 22:56
MinceRnot the good ones.Apr 28 22:57
_Goblinyoure hobbyist coder has no clue about what is going on under the hood...Apr 28 22:57
MinceRon the long run it's pretty easy to tell if someone is just copyingApr 28 22:57
_Goblinand even today you have "Professional Coders"....coders that use VB? that's professional?  I wonder how many of them actually now how the computer is executing their highlevel code.Apr 28 22:57
MinceR:>Apr 28 22:58
MinceRdon't blame free software for that :>Apr 28 22:58
MinceRvb is m$'s fault, and their followers'Apr 28 22:58
_GoblinI spoke to a "coder" a professional who couldn't say the difference between an interpreter and compiler.Apr 28 22:58
_GoblinMinceR, to be fair I'm not specifically blaming FOSS, I'm blaming the entire "coding" culture of today.Apr 28 22:59
_GoblinI think its the loss of core skills thats the problem...Apr 28 22:59
_Goblinpeople want to jump in and code COD on their first week of learning a language...Apr 28 23:00
MinceRit could simply be that there's so much demand for new codeApr 28 23:00
_Goblinwhy would they want to learn about the stack?Apr 28 23:00
MinceRbut no great increase on the number of skilled developersApr 28 23:00
MinceRs/on/in/Apr 28 23:00
_GoblinPUSH and POP...they believe thats a confectionaryApr 28 23:00
MinceR:>Apr 28 23:01
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[rms/@rms] Guantanamo defense attorney's emails 28 23:05
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*trmanco has quit (Quit: trmanco)Apr 28 23:09
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] #Australia's boom is anything but for its #Aboriginal people - who are still waiting for amends from so manyApr 28 23:10
TechrightsBot-trTitle: Australia's boom is anything but for its Aboriginal people | John Pilger | Comment is free | The Guardian .::. Size~: 120.67 KBApr 28 23:10
_Goblinmsb__, to be fair and on the record I think Snit is taking this way to far with COLA and it is seeding Google, however on the other hand you didn't really help yourself since your delivery of your opinion (and its off-topic nature) was hardly going to met with anything else in COLA.Apr 28 23:20
msb___Goblin: Once again Timmie, it's not "my opinion", it's the result of scientific/engineering research and investigation.  Apr 28 23:21
_Goblinmsb__, well if you agree with it and promote it, it is your opinion...Apr 28 23:22
_Goblinmsb__, without going back to a 911 debate theres arguments both sides, if there wasn't I'm sure it would be more than you posting in COLA about.Apr 28 23:23
_Goblinmsb__, and without dampening your links, some of which have been rather dubious to say the least....Apr 28 23:23
msb__And since flatfish is constantly bringing it up, and since it was used as the false justification for murdering 2,000,000 innocent people, I think it's worthwhile talking about.  Even if most of the COLA regulars are brainwashed zombies in this area.Apr 28 23:23
_Goblinmsb__, if you said the world was a sphere and happened to use Linux, he would post about it.Apr 28 23:24
_Goblinmsb__, as I said before apparently according to him, I'm a cross dresser.Apr 28 23:24
_Goblinmsb__, and see, you prove my point....Apr 28 23:24
_Goblinmsb__, people who don't agree with you are "brainwashed regulars"Apr 28 23:25
msb___Goblin: If it's the result of scientific/engineering research and investigation and I also agree with it, then stating that it's "my opinion" is an attempt to weaken and discredit it.Apr 28 23:25
_Goblinmsb__, thats not the way to present your point of gets peoples backs up and regardless if you have something interesting to say you will be ignored.Apr 28 23:25
_Goblinmsb__, no its not....if it was as clear cut as you say it is, why is it only you in COLA agreeing with the evidence?Apr 28 23:26
_Goblinmsb__, as I say, I don't want to go there with you again, so lets just refer to evidence in general...Apr 28 23:26
_Goblinmsb__, but why, are so few people with your opinion if its so obvious?Apr 28 23:27
msb__Yes.  People who aren't even willing to read through a couple of websites, and who don't care about 2,000,000 people being murdered ARE brainwashed zombies.   Brainwashed by govt/NWO propaganda via TV and newspapers.Apr 28 23:27
_Goblinmsb__, I don't watch tv.  I support George Galloway who certainly is a free thinker.....why am I brainwashed then?Apr 28 23:27
_Goblinmsb__, I think Tony Blair should be tried for warcrimes.  I also think the rich classes have major influence over the politics of this country to the point of criminality (thats been proved too) how come I can't go with your evidence?Apr 28 23:28
msb___Goblin: You are brainwashed about many, but not all, areas of reality.Apr 28 23:28
_Goblinand how does that work?Apr 28 23:28
_GoblinI don't buy into the media at all....any of it.Apr 28 23:29
msb___Goblin: Then why do you reject the 911 research results?Apr 28 23:29
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lxoliva/@lxoliva] !GNU !Linuxlibre deblobbing scripts are now ready for 3.9-gnu: get them at 28 23:30
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msb___Goblin: Find a hardline down there in the Matrix, call us up and tell us.Apr 28 23:30
_Goblinmsb__, because of the scope of what is expected of us to believe..... there's been small conspiracies in the past, known by a few people that have leaked out...something as big as the 911 one couldn't possibly be held out as it would involve too many people...thats just for starters.Apr 28 23:30
_GoblinPlease don't mention the Matrix...... I'm very opinionated on the movie of the same name....I come out in hives.Apr 28 23:31
msb__It took decades for the Gulf of Tonkin fraud to come out.  And that was used to murder 4,000,000 people.Apr 28 23:32
_Goblinyes but it certainly wasn't on the scale of what is suggested in 911.... and it was 4,000,000 people killed not involved in a conspiracy.Apr 28 23:33
msb___Goblin: Maybe there's too much of Cypher in you.Apr 28 23:33
_Goblinlike I say I don't want to go down the 911 route because it will just generate bad feeling....the point I make....Apr 28 23:33
_Goblinis regardless of what you believe/know/want to promote, the delivery of how you do it is completely off, and if your true intention is to enlighten people (and not turn them away) then I strongly suggest you look at how you approach people with the topic.Apr 28 23:34
msb__Twice as many murdered, and in both cases none were involved in the lie.Apr 28 23:34
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[lnxwalt280/@lnxwalt280] Final score: #LADodgers 2, Milwaukee #Brewers 0. #Dodgers win! #baseball #LABaseballApr 28 23:35
_Goblinmaybe the approach should be....and a point we can both hopefully agree on is.... many people were tragically killed on 911.Apr 28 23:36
sebsebseb_Goblin: see my pmApr 28 23:36
msb__I could spend weeks navigating the infinite-dimensional belief space between the false propaganda matrix and reality.  I don't have the time, and it would mean 50 times as much off-topic postings to COLA.  I just rely on the fact that a few percent of the 60,000+ cola readers are able to think.Apr 28 23:37
_Goblin"infinite-dimensional belief space between the false propaganda matrix and reality. " - My point about delivery could have everything completely right but with statements like that you just turn people awayApr 28 23:39
msb__Even among the regulars, I think Homer, 7, and one other understand.  That's probably about 10% of the Linux users.  Not bad at all.Apr 28 23:39
_Goblin"I just rely on the fact that a few percent of the 60,000+ cola readers are able to think." - Not only insulting to people but also after the reception you have recieved from 90% of the people who post there, how likely do you think that there are many of the 60,000 people any different.Apr 28 23:39
_Goblinmsb__, I wouldn't count on it..... and I think that if they did have the same view as you they would distance themselves from you because of your delivery (as above)Apr 28 23:40
_Goblinanyway, why COLA?Apr 28 23:40
_GoblinWhy not G+ and use #tags? You will reach a far larger audience.Apr 28 23:41
msb___Goblin: Timmie, I speak the truth.  I don't sugar-coat it.  People who think can understand it.Apr 28 23:41
_Goblinand you can even block snit from fouling up your posts (or anyone else)Apr 28 23:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: oh yeah seems I forgot to tell youApr 28 23:41
sebsebseb_Goblin: as of yesterday I have a Rassbery PiApr 28 23:41
msb__G+ is people-oriented, not subject-oriented.  I don't like it.Apr 28 23:42
_GoblinTheres not sugar coating it and theres adding lines in like "infinite-dimensional belief space between the false propaganda matrix and reality." - Do you really think the average reader, the masses are going to in any way relate to that in order to see your message?Apr 28 23:42
_Goblinmsb__, thats what #tags are for.Apr 28 23:42
-TRIdentica/#techrights-[glynmoody/@glynmoody] hardly a consolation...Apr 28 23:43
msb___Goblin: It's a concept I just thought of today, and I think a good one.  If they don't understand it they can look it up.  They'll learn something.  Apr 28 23:43
_Goblinmsb__, come on.  You know I don't agree with you, yet you must see how your dimensional remark turns the average person away (the person I assume you wish to enlighten)Apr 28 23:43
_Goblinwould you, (if you had no previous knowledge on the subject) think it quite normal to read a strangers posts with that in it?Apr 28 23:44
_Goblinand also, do you think that maybe you should stop insulting people with brainwashed type comments if you want them to pay attention?Apr 28 23:45
_Goblinthis is basics in courtesy.....and if you can't do that how can you expect people to be interested in what you say?Apr 28 23:45
msb___Goblin: I doubt that I can reach the average, terribly brainwashed/programmed, person.  Alex Jones talks to them about 4 hours every day.  He does well.Apr 28 23:45
_Goblinso what makes you think the readers of COLA are any different from any other community?Apr 28 23:45
_Goblinwhy don't you tackle the Apple forums with this? or how about the coding newsgroups?Apr 28 23:46
msb__They're intelligent enough to resist Microsoft's propaganda.Apr 28 23:46
_Goblinok, why are you not approaching the FOSS coding relating newsgroups?Apr 28 23:46
_Goblinmsb__, well I've resisted Microsoft propaganda.....according to you though Im probably not intelligent enough not to be brainwashed.Apr 28 23:47
msb__If I saw a person who had a slug eating their brain, do you think I should refrain from telling them out of "politeness"?Apr 28 23:47
_Goblininfact I've had 1/2 million hits to my site in a year on the basis of resisting Microsoft propaganda.Apr 28 23:47
msb__I don't know that intelligence comes into it that much.Apr 28 23:47
_Goblinno, but you can tell them politely and thats a very bad example.Apr 28 23:48
msb__It's an accurate example -- a good analogy.Apr 28 23:48
_Goblinyou want to enlighten people. Try by relating to them in normal terms which don't look odd, try relating to them without being rude....right or wrong, you may get somewher.Apr 28 23:48
_GoblinYou really can't see the problem here can you?Apr 28 23:49
msb___Goblin: I have lots of links to videos made by other people near the top of my homepage --  Maybe you should view some of them.Apr 28 23:50
msb__They're probably more accessible to brainwashed people.Apr 28 23:50
_GoblinI do view them, but as I say I want to put aside 911 for a second and enlighten you as to why you have met with little success and you've managed to offend/insult many people who would have other wise supported your freedom of opinion.Apr 28 23:51
msb__They go a shorter distance in the infinite vectorspace, and do it more gradually.Apr 28 23:51
_GoblinThey go a shorter distance in the infinite vectorspace, and do it more gradually. - And who on earth will relate to that, brainwashed or not? Can you not see that 911 opinions aside, that statement makes you look odd?  You are destroying any chance of being taken seriously with comments like that.Apr 28 23:52
msb___Goblin: Yeah, sure.  You, Timmie, enlighten me.  You who can't even keep me straight in your mind from EnderNNN.Apr 28 23:52
_GoblinAnyone here, anyone at all think that statement makes him look anything but odd regardless of what his point of view was?Apr 28 23:52
_GoblinI'm sorry I got you mixed up with another whom had poor manners and what I considered as an outlandish can't see it can you?Apr 28 23:53
msb___Goblin: One little problem Timmie.  The idea that "being odd" is a bad thing is a big part of the brainwashing.Apr 28 23:53
_Goblinyou can't even accept (and I've said nothing here to take away from your opinion)...that your delivery looks odd.Apr 28 23:54
msb__Also named by Wilhelm Reich  "the Emotional Plague" Apr 28 23:54
_Goblinno.....odd is not a bad thing at all..... but I am telling you your comments are turning people awayApr 28 23:54
_Goblinis this attention seeking? Do you want to be laughed at and disliked? Personally I'd like to see you deliver your opinion without being ridiculed and laughed at.  I might not agree but it would be an interesting debate and get your points across.Apr 28 23:55
_GoblinI've had sensible conversations with people who believe Area 51 holds aliens....I don't agree at all, but they did so in a polite and coherent way.Apr 28 23:56
_Goblinand they didn't come out with strange statements distracting from the points they were trying to make.Apr 28 23:56
msb___Goblin: Oh and I forgot.  You are so unaware that you are trying out Scientology, which was exposed in the 1990s in one of the biggest battles between Internet folks and a bunch of vicious wealthy psychopaths.Apr 28 23:56
_Goblinyes...but you've missed a bit out haven't you?Apr 28 23:57
_Goblinagain, rude, aggressive....Apr 28 23:57
_GoblinAs you well know, I've no intention in becoming one, I wanted to find out for myself what it was about...Apr 28 23:57
msb__You mean the people they've murdered?  It was probably less than ten.Apr 28 23:58
_GoblinI'm G+ing all the steps and even cracked a few jokes about there being no aliens yet.Apr 28 23:58
msb___Goblin: Timmie, in some ways you already _are_ one.Apr 28 23:58
_Goblinmsb__, I'm doing more than you.  Instead of reading the words of others, I'm looking into it myself.Apr 28 23:58
_GoblinI'm quite sure I won't find the answer to any murder conspiracy, but I will be able to answer some questions I've had on ScientologyApr 28 23:59
msb___Goblin: Lovely.  If you have a cat or dog, you'd better keep it indoors from now on.Apr 28 23:59
_Goblinand thats how things should work....opinion by personal experience.Apr 28 23:59
_Goblinmsb__, well, if there is something dodgy about Scientology I'm doing far more than you about it,Apr 28 23:59

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