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| Viper550 | Well that's something you saw coming. | Sep 03 04:18 |
|---|---|---|
| Viper550 | A long time ago. | Sep 03 04:18 |
| Viper550 | M$ is buying Nokia's hardware and services divisions Microsoft buys Nokia's Devices and Services Unit, unites Windows Phone 8 and its hardware maker | Sep 03 04:21 |
| Viper550 | whoops | Sep 03 04:21 |
| Viper550 | http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/2/4688530/microsoft-buys-nokias-devices-and-services-unit-unites-windows-phone | Sep 03 04:21 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.theverge.com | Microsoft buys Nokia's Devices and Services Unit, unites Windows Phone 8 and its hardware maker | The Verge [ http://ur1.ca/fcq0f ] | Sep 03 04:21 |
| Viper550 | this is only a formality, Microsoft has owned them for a long time | Sep 03 04:21 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 03 07:00 |
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| iophk | License or own? | Sep 03 08:12 |
| iophk | "The Redmond, Wash., company will also pay 1.65 billion EUR | Sep 03 08:12 |
| iophk | to license Nokia's patents," | Sep 03 08:12 |
| iophk | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324432404579052112731349626.html | Sep 03 08:12 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | online.wsj.com | Microsoft to Buy Nokia Mobile Business in $7 Billion Deal - WSJ.com [ http://ur1.ca/fct7k ] | Sep 03 08:12 |
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| oiaohm | I guess everyone seen that Microsoft is Aquiring Nokia. | Sep 03 09:00 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 03 09:08 |
| MinceR | iophk: might be they'll keep ownership at mokia so it can work as a patent troll | Sep 03 09:09 |
| oiaohm | Its fairly much a kiss of death for anyone making a Windows Mobile phone other than Microsoft. | Sep 03 09:09 |
| iophk | dance mokia, dance | Sep 03 09:09 |
| MinceR | dance monkey boy | Sep 03 09:09 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: that was a kiss of death regardless | Sep 03 09:10 |
| iophk | yes, itwas a goner once elop showed up | Sep 03 09:10 |
| MinceR | nobody buys winblows mobile any more; nobody ever bought or will ever buy a winblows phone | Sep 03 09:10 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: HTC and a few other still make Windows Phone models. | Sep 03 09:10 |
| MinceR | yes, but nobody buys them | Sep 03 09:10 |
| iophk | The only purchases are probably corporate inertia where institutions had old contracts to buy Nokia phones. | Sep 03 09:11 |
| MinceR | m$ successfully copied the total lack of value of hypeOS but failed to copy the hype | Sep 03 09:11 |
| oiaohm | But I will not be supprised if next season only 1 slot total for Windows Phone. | Sep 03 09:11 |
| iophk | Once they get burned by Mokia foisting Windows phones on the new purchasers, they will get those contracts fixed to allow HTC and others. | Sep 03 09:11 |
| oiaohm | Windows RT all over again. | Sep 03 09:11 |
| iophk | "they can't even copy well" | Sep 03 09:12 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 03 09:12 |
| iophk | They've been trying since the 1980's, losing that look-and-feel case over the trashcan | Sep 03 09:12 |
| oiaohm | I know a lot of people who would still buy feature phones if they could. | Sep 03 09:13 |
| oiaohm | Really Nokia should have stayed with what they were good at. | Sep 03 09:13 |
| MinceR | there still are many featurephones | Sep 03 09:13 |
| iophk | All it needs to do is keep a phone list and make phone calls, anything else is a waste of battery. | Sep 03 09:13 |
| MinceR | nokia stopped being good at it long ago | Sep 03 09:13 |
| MinceR | both my nokia phones sucked, for different reasons | Sep 03 09:14 |
| iophk | MinceR. How recent are they? The old ones were good, but starting 6 -7 years ago they started to suck | Sep 03 09:14 |
| iophk | One model even seemed to collect condensation inside. | Sep 03 09:14 |
| MinceR | 6101, n97 | Sep 03 09:15 |
| MinceR | in the former, the electronics were fine but the casing was rubbish | Sep 03 09:15 |
| MinceR | in the latter, the casing was fine but the electronics were rubbish | Sep 03 09:15 |
| iophk | wasn't that after they moved production out o?f Europe | Sep 03 09:16 |
| MinceR | could be | Sep 03 09:17 |
| MinceR | i don't know | Sep 03 09:17 |
| iophk | The move to WindowsPhone caused a lot of harm. http://allthingsd.com/20120730/nokia-made-in-finland-no-longer/ | Sep 03 09:17 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | allthingsd.com | Nokia Phones "Made in Finland" No Longer - John Paczkowski - News - AllThingsD [ http://ur1.ca/fctw6 ] | Sep 03 09:17 |
| iophk | I hope the Finns are as stubborn about remembering as they are in other areas. | Sep 03 09:18 |
| MinceR | 2005 and 2009, respectively | Sep 03 09:18 |
| iophk | A lot don't want to let go of the Jorma Ollila myth | Sep 03 09:18 |
| MinceR | so apparently both were made in finland | Sep 03 09:18 |
| iophk | There was a lot made in India and other places, too. I'm looking for the year | Sep 03 09:19 |
| iophk | There | Sep 03 09:21 |
| iophk | were factories in Mexico and Hungary | Sep 03 09:21 |
| iophk | and Romania | Sep 03 09:22 |
| MinceR | they could also very well be design flaws | Sep 03 09:23 |
| oiaohm | Really I have had some very good nokia phones. | Sep 03 09:24 |
| iophk | The condensation was certainly a design flaw. It happened when going in and out of doors in the winter. | Sep 03 09:24 |
| MinceR | i've heard of good nokia phones from others too | Sep 03 09:24 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: all mine where after the year 2000 and before Nokia started making Windows Mobile. | Sep 03 09:24 |
| iophk | Also some models, i forget which, had screens that could not be read even a little out of doors during daylight. | Sep 03 09:24 |
| MinceR | mainly back when i didn't have a mobile phone at all, yet :> | Sep 03 09:24 |
| MinceR | i don't recall nokia making winblows mobile, only winblows phone | Sep 03 09:25 |
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| oiaohm | MinceR: windows mobile from nokia came just before winblows phone. | Sep 03 09:25 |
| oiaohm | for years Nokia was symbian symbian and more symbian. | Sep 03 09:25 |
| oiaohm | If you wanted OS other than symbian go elsewhere basically. | Sep 03 09:26 |
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| iophk | Elop has gutted the company, even selling off the headquarters. Selling the HQ is not a sign of being around for the long term. | Sep 03 09:26 |
| iophk | The money was used to prop up failing budget reports. | Sep 03 09:26 |
| MinceR | what was the winblows mobile phone from nokia called? or winblows phone came out before they came out with a model? | Sep 03 09:27 |
| iophk | Problem finding it. You have ((windows mobile) phone) and (windows (mobile phone)) to weed through. | Sep 03 09:28 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 03 09:28 |
| iophk | http://www.fonearena.com/nokia-phones-available.html | Sep 03 09:29 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.fonearena.com | Available Nokia mobile phones in market [ http://ur1.ca/fctyz ] | Sep 03 09:29 |
| iophk | Will Finland have a national day of mourning and a wake to note the passing of Nokia? | Sep 03 09:29 |
| MinceR | they could just support jolla instead | Sep 03 09:30 |
| MinceR | jolla is doing what nokia should be doing | Sep 03 09:30 |
| iophk | Jolla is getting almost no press coverage. | Sep 03 09:30 |
| iophk | They did sell out pre-orders though. | Sep 03 09:30 |
| iophk | Sadly, the UI is closed if I understand correctly. | Sep 03 09:31 |
| MinceR | indeed, but i suspect that nokia's is too | Sep 03 09:31 |
| MinceR | (swipe, iirc) | Sep 03 09:31 |
| MinceR | s/is/was/ | Sep 03 09:31 |
| oiaohm | iophk: Jolla target is patent free countries mostly. | Sep 03 09:31 |
| iophk | Yes, they are aiming at China first. | Sep 03 09:32 |
| iophk | It's an unsaturated market for smartphones. | Sep 03 09:32 |
| iophk | Smartphones need charging about every day. The old feature phones needed only every few days, with heavy use, or over a week when idle. | Sep 03 09:33 |
| oiaohm | https://sailfishos.org/ most of Jolla source code is public. | Sep 03 09:33 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | sailfishos.org | NO TITLE | Sep 03 09:33 |
| iophk | How much more power does that cosume. | Sep 03 09:33 |
| iophk | Most of Sailfish is OSS | Sep 03 09:33 |
| oiaohm | Jolla is not that interested in locking it up too much. | Sep 03 09:33 |
| oiaohm | iophk: remember Jolla is in the hardware business to a point. | Sep 03 09:34 |
| oiaohm | They design make the phones as well as the OS. | Sep 03 09:34 |
| MinceR | i hope they at least won't repeat Aegis | Sep 03 09:35 |
| iophk | The wikipedia page for Sailfish has a good overview ofthe system layers, but no indicator of what is open or closed. | Sep 03 09:35 |
| oiaohm | iophk: Mer is 100 percent FOSS. | Sep 03 09:37 |
| oiaohm | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Main_Page | Sep 03 09:38 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | wiki.merproject.org | Mer Wiki [ http://ur1.ca/fcu2c ] | Sep 03 09:38 |
| iophk | Very good. | Sep 03 09:38 |
| oiaohm | iophk: nemo is the open source sailfish compadbile GUI. | Sep 03 09:38 |
| oiaohm | Basically sailfish takes snapshots of nemo and open source developers are free to take nemo where they choose. | Sep 03 09:39 |
| oiaohm | and of course the Qt used is open source. | Sep 03 09:39 |
| oiaohm | So sailfish OS is custom choosen snapshots of open soruce projects. | Sep 03 09:40 |
| iophk | I suppose Qt is now safer now at Digia away from Mokia | Sep 03 09:40 |
| oiaohm | Other than the appstore of course. | Sep 03 09:40 |
| oiaohm | Nokia did some good changing Qt from is restrictive licensing to LGPL. | Sep 03 09:40 |
| iophk | I didn't see that as good. Changing the license eliminated the possibility of the dual-license income model. | Sep 03 09:41 |
| iophk | That way contributions came in, either in the form of code or as money. | Sep 03 09:42 |
| MinceR | code was enough for GTK+, it seems | Sep 03 09:42 |
| MinceR | why isn't it enough for Qt? | Sep 03 09:42 |
| iophk | If people wanted to close off the product, they could always pay for that option. Now Digia / Qt gets nothing. | Sep 03 09:42 |
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| iophk | How long has GTK+ been LGPL? | Sep 03 09:43 |
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| iophk | I got the impression that GTK+ was quite inferior to Qt, but that's not my area at all. | Sep 03 09:43 |
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| MinceR | my impression was that it was not inferior at all | Sep 03 09:45 |
| iophk | A lot uses GTK+, to be sure. | Sep 03 09:47 |
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| MinceR | well, except for its obsession with making selected-by-default texts the primary selection | Sep 03 10:07 |
| iophk | a little old - http://www.neowin.net/news/former-nokia-exec-microsoft-means-death-for-the-company | Sep 03 10:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.neowin.net | Former Nokia exec: Microsoft means death for the company - Neowin [ http://ur1.ca/fcuga ] | Sep 03 10:07 |
| iophk | Now Mokia will be the Zune of mobile phones. | Sep 03 10:08 |
| MinceR | the Kin of mobile phones ;) | Sep 03 10:09 |
| iophk | A lot of small investors mistook Nokia for a bluechip and lost a lot of money. This sale will make those that are still around lose even more. | Sep 03 10:12 |
| MinceR | the ones who are still around deserve to lose even more | Sep 03 10:12 |
| iophk | Yeah, they could not or would not see what was happening before their eyes. | Sep 03 10:12 |
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| MinceR | the "burning platform" memo should have been a clear signal to sell everything while they still can | Sep 03 10:12 |
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| MinceR | also, the BoD also deserved their shares to lose their value | Sep 03 10:13 |
| MinceR | they should have never allowed an "ex"-m$-er to get the CEO seat | Sep 03 10:13 |
| iophk | Ahonen saw that in advanced and ripped on Elop quite a bit. His only mistake that I could see was claiming that Elop was incompetent. It's now apparent that he was doing all that intentionally. | Sep 03 10:13 |
| iophk | I suspect there is no such thing as an "ex" M$-er. They never stop working for M$ even if they do start taking money from another company as pay. | Sep 03 10:14 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 03 10:14 |
| iophk | At the top levels, there are no-compete clauses and biog stock payoffs tied to not criticizing or allowing others to critisize M$ | Sep 03 10:15 |
| iophk | at the lower levels it is much creepier. | Sep 03 10:15 |
| JimmyCarter | lol if ms could just fix their sw bugs they would be fine | Sep 03 10:21 |
| iophk | If you took away the bugs there would be nothing left. :> | Sep 03 10:22 |
| JimmyCarter | hah | Sep 03 10:22 |
| JimmyCarter | windows source code must be like the hunger games | Sep 03 10:22 |
| iophk | 100% spaghetti code and cruft | Sep 03 10:23 |
| JimmyCarter | i wonder how many lines | Sep 03 10:25 |
| iophk | billions and billions | Sep 03 10:25 |
| iophk | It was very lucky that Qt got sold off. | Sep 03 10:26 |
| JimmyCarter | i havent used qt in over 5 yr i guess its improved | Sep 03 10:38 |
| JimmyCarter | i do multiplat dev but just use my own os asbtraction, which i learned can be very tiny. i dont do extensive guis tho, just a few game menus | Sep 03 10:42 |
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| JimmyCarter | im also familiar with webkit rendering | Sep 03 10:44 |
| JimmyCarter | there's somewhat of a conflict between widget designers and html/css for how to handle guis | Sep 03 10:46 |
| JimmyCarter | i would somewhat like to see a project like Qt that is first a web browser, and uses html/css to layout gui | Sep 03 10:47 |
| oiaohm | JimmyCarter: Ok you are talking the general cat fight. | Sep 03 10:47 |
| oiaohm | Where they have 3 different format for html 5 apps out side web browser. | Sep 03 10:48 |
| JimmyCarter | porting Qt app to a web page and vice versa takes too long | Sep 03 10:49 |
| MinceR | m$ could not fix their bugs, their entire corporate structure is arranged to prevent it | Sep 03 10:53 |
| MinceR | also, they aren't willing to spend on development or testing | Sep 03 10:53 |
| MinceR | also, they can't fix their design flaws, most if which are intentional | Sep 03 10:54 |
| iophk | M$ reputation keeps skilled people from seeking jobs there. Stack ranking and the toxic work enviroment keep those with even mediocre skills fromrising to the top. | Sep 03 10:54 |
| oiaohm | JimmyCarter: have you even done the horible of using qt own server. | Sep 03 10:55 |
| MinceR | https://twitter.com/ltm/status/374750282460061696/photo/1 | Sep 03 10:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @ltm: The Microsoft/Nokia deal visualized. http://t.co/8JGPPOuyTM | Sep 03 10:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | @ltm: The Microsoft/Nokia deal visualized. http://t.co/8JGPPOuyTM | Sep 03 10:56 |
| JimmyCarter | no i dont think so oiaohm | Sep 03 10:56 |
| oiaohm | JimmyCarter: http://qt-project.org/wiki/Qt_for_Google_Native_Client Ok this is another stack of evil I was not even thinking of. | Sep 03 10:58 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | qt-project.org | Qt_for_Google_Native_Client | Qt Wiki | Qt Project [ http://ur1.ca/fcv63 ] | Sep 03 10:58 |
| oiaohm | Hmm TechrightsBot-tr cure your hick ups. | Sep 03 11:11 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 03 11:11 |
| oiaohm | Did everyone else get TechrightsBot sending The Microsoft/Nokia deal visualized. twice | Sep 03 11:12 |
| MinceR | indeed. | Sep 03 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Ok so its not a client bug myside. | Sep 03 11:12 |
| JimmyCarter | nacl is cool | Sep 03 11:15 |
| JimmyCarter | https://developers.google.com/native-client/faq | Sep 03 11:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | developers.google.com | FAQ - Native Client — Google Developers [ http://ur1.ca/fcvf7 ] | Sep 03 11:15 |
| oiaohm | JimmyCarter: not enough support yet. | Sep 03 11:17 |
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| XFaCE | schestowitz: so Microsoft has now "officially" bought Nokia | Sep 03 13:34 |
| XFaCE | I guess we are all supposed to be in shock and awe | Sep 03 13:34 |
| iophk | XFaCE: roy is still away | Sep 03 13:35 |
| XFaCE | ah | Sep 03 13:35 |
| XFaCE | well still | Sep 03 13:35 |
| XFaCE | iophk: are you in shock and awe? XD | Sep 03 13:35 |
| iophk | Elop did turn out to be the trojan that everyone claimed he was. | Sep 03 13:35 |
| XFaCE | "Nokia's Canadian boss Stephen Elop, who ran Microsoft's business software division before jumping to Nokia in 2010, will return to the U.S. firm as head of its mobile devices business - a Trojan horse, according to disgruntled Finnish media. | Sep 03 13:36 |
| XFaCE | He is being discussed as a possible replacement for Microsoft's retiring CEO Steve Ballmer, who is trying to remake the U.S. firm into a gadget and services company like Apple before he departs, though it has fallen short so far in its attempts to compete in mobile devices." | Sep 03 13:36 |
| XFaCE | http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/03/us-microsoft-nokia-idUSBRE98202V20130903 | Sep 03 13:36 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.reuters.com | Nokia to sell handset business to Microsoft for $7.2 billion | Reuters [ http://ur1.ca/fcxpz ] | Sep 03 13:36 |
| XFaCE | *a Trojan horse, according to disgruntled Finnish media.* | Sep 03 13:36 |
| XFaCE | lolololol | Sep 03 13:36 |
| iophk | He was called a trojan horse since his arrival. ' | Sep 03 13:36 |
| XFaCE | yes, don't actually investigate why it is according to them | Sep 03 13:36 |
| iophk | None of his decisions have benefited Nokia. | Sep 03 13:36 |
| iophk | Nokia -> Mokia | Sep 03 13:36 |
| XFaCE | cause god dammit, maybe you'd actually report this according to Reuters | Sep 03 13:37 |
| XFaCE | you know, journalism | Sep 03 13:37 |
| iophk | I expect that during the next days there will be yet more revisionism. | Sep 03 13:37 |
| iophk | ... especially about the 'burning platform' memo | Sep 03 13:37 |
| XFaCE | "It's very clear to me that rationally this is the right step going forward," Elop told reporters, though he added he also felt "a great deal of sadness" over the outcome. | Sep 03 13:37 |
| XFaCE | In three years under Elop, Nokia saw its market share collapse and its share price shrivel." | Sep 03 13:37 |
| XFaCE | iophk: The expected crocodile tears | Sep 03 13:38 |
| iophk | AFAIK he didn't even move house to Finland, not even to Helsinki | Sep 03 13:38 |
| iophk | Ahonen has caught up with the news | Sep 03 13:38 |
| iophk | http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/09/another-death-in-smartphone-bloodbath-windows-phone-strategy-so-failed-now-nokia-handset-unit-sold-t.html | Sep 03 13:38 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | communities-dominate.blogs.com | Communities Dominate Brands: Another Death in Smartphone Bloodbath - Windows Phone strategy so failed, now Nokia handset unit sold - to MIcrosoft [ http://ur1.ca/fcxry ] | Sep 03 13:38 |
| iophk | With the acquisition M$ should be able to better hide the losses of the Windows Phone. | Sep 03 13:39 |
| iophk | Shuffle it in with some other produts to make the reporting more obscure. | Sep 03 13:39 |
| XFaCE | and with Blackberry scuttling off, they are now number 4 | Sep 03 13:40 |
| XFaCE | or whatever | Sep 03 13:40 |
| iophk | Jolla / Sailfish is aiming for China. they could become #3 quickly | Sep 03 13:40 |
| XFaCE | iophk: "Nokia's Canadian boss Stephen Elop," | Sep 03 13:41 |
| XFaCE | damn, never knew this until now | Sep 03 13:42 |
| XFaCE | it's even more depressing | Sep 03 13:42 |
| iophk | He hasn't been Canadian fora while. He's from M$. | Sep 03 13:42 |
| oiaohm | iophk: really no hidding the losses will not be better inside Microsoft. | Sep 03 13:42 |
| XFaCE | since what Elop did to Nokia is reminiscent of the Nortel abuses | Sep 03 13:42 |
| iophk | Or SGI | Sep 03 13:42 |
| iophk | or HP | Sep 03 13:42 |
| oiaohm | iophk: taking in Nokia expands MS operating costs. | Sep 03 13:42 |
| XFaCE | Or Worldcom | Sep 03 13:42 |
| XFaCE | iophk: Rare | Sep 03 13:43 |
| XFaCE | Netscape | Sep 03 13:43 |
| XFaCE | Novell | Sep 03 13:43 |
| XFaCE | Sun | Sep 03 13:43 |
| iophk | Yes, their operating costs / losses increase but the ability to hide the losses also increases | Sep 03 13:43 |
| iophk | Canonical now has a M$ mole, too | Sep 03 13:43 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: easier to use the same tricky dicky accounting when the company is fully under your control | Sep 03 13:43 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: you are forgeting PC sales are slowing. | Sep 03 13:44 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: Microsoft is having less budget to play with. | Sep 03 13:44 |
| iophk | http://techrights.org/2013/05/15/ubuntu-and-microsoft-veteran/ | Sep 03 13:44 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | techrights.org | Man From Microsoft Runs the Ubuntu Project Now | Techrights [ http://ur1.ca/dv9od ] | Sep 03 13:44 |
| iophk | M$ depends on OEM sales for much of its money, both Windows and Office are OEM-dependent. | Sep 03 13:44 |
| oiaohm | iophk: yes and OEM sales are slowing year after year. | Sep 03 13:45 |
| iophk | Also, they might have been growth dependent, which makes them gambling on a debt that gets paid with future money. | Sep 03 13:45 |
| iophk | Except in a stagnant market the extra money never comes. | Sep 03 13:45 |
| iophk | OEM sales have been slow for over a decade and gradually slowing over time. | Sep 03 13:45 |
| oiaohm | iophk: really you have missed the other changes. | Sep 03 13:46 |
| iophk | probably. | Sep 03 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia grid is a sign of the mainframe returning to business. | Sep 03 13:46 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: And finally, buying Nokia is an easy was to get fake hype from a purchase | Sep 03 13:46 |
| XFaCE | fake in that for anyone who's been paying attention, MS buying Nokia is completely unsurprising and close to non-news | Sep 03 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Of course Linux with wayland and the dri3 alterations will follow Nvidia into the Office mainframe. | Sep 03 13:46 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: But that's not how it'll be reported in MSM | Sep 03 13:46 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: Of course I expect MS to put a postive spin on. Completley miss that Nokia has been bleeding cash. | Sep 03 13:47 |
| iophk | I was surprised by the purchase because there is so little of value left in Nokia. It's unviable as-is. And moreso because M$ already had the control it needed without the burden of ownership. | Sep 03 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Nokia had huge investment from the profits from symbian phone sales. | Sep 03 13:47 |
| oiaohm | iophk: I know why. | Sep 03 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Nokia was to the point of colapse. If a Linux company aquired ot Nokia patents would have lost there teeth. | Sep 03 13:48 |
| oiaohm | The common patents Microsoft uses against Android end in the next 2 years. | Sep 03 13:48 |
| iophk | So will M$ now sell off the patents to proxies? | Sep 03 13:49 |
| oiaohm | iophk: this is the problem life springs to microsoft are about to dry up. | Sep 03 13:49 |
| iophk | I thought Nokia had already lost the key patents. | Sep 03 13:49 |
| oiaohm | The major reason why Windows Mobile phone on MS blance sheet is not making a lose is income from android devices. | Sep 03 13:49 |
| iophk | M$ income from Android is big but not enough to support such a bloated beast. | Sep 03 13:49 |
| oiaohm | iophk: call it desperation. | Sep 03 13:49 |
| MinceR | nokia could stay such a proxy | Sep 03 13:49 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: not independant. | Sep 03 13:50 |
| MinceR | neither is CPTN | Sep 03 13:50 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Nokia no longer had the funds. | Sep 03 13:50 |
| MinceR | m$ kept feeding SCO for ages, they could do the same to mokia | Sep 03 13:50 |
| iophk | Nokia sold its HQ to make ends meet recently. | Sep 03 13:50 |
| oiaohm | iophk: Android patent income to Microsoft is greater than Windows phone income to Microsoft | Sep 03 13:51 |
| iophk | That also indicates that Elop had no intention of keeping the company in Finland or maybe even shutting it down. | Sep 03 13:51 |
| oiaohm | iophk: exactly. Nokia has lost most of there assets. | Sep 03 13:51 |
| oiaohm | iophk: also lost all there investments. | Sep 03 13:51 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: The ammount of money nokia needs is in the billions. | Sep 03 13:52 |
| iophk | oiaohm: yes, Android income is big for them. it would be a heavy blow if Android companies were to stop paying. | Sep 03 13:52 |
| iophk | So far it's been a divide and conquer | Sep 03 13:52 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: are they in debt? | Sep 03 13:52 |
| oiaohm | iophk: in a few years Android companies can stop paying if MS cannot aquire new patents they cannot avoid. | Sep 03 13:52 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Nokia yes is in debt | Sep 03 13:52 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 03 13:52 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Nokia was heading in the direction of recievership. | Sep 03 13:53 |
| MinceR | then their patents will be probably handed to CPTN and nokia closed down | Sep 03 13:53 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Exactly who is going todo a patent deal with a company sinking under it own weight. | Sep 03 13:53 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: wise person waits for them to die. | Sep 03 13:53 |
| oiaohm | CPTN has low operating costs so is not going to fail into debt. | Sep 03 13:54 |
| XFaCE | [08:47:40 AM]<iophk> I was surprised by the purchase because there is so little of value left in Nokia. It's unviable as-is. And moreso because M$ already had the control it needed without the burden of ownership. | Sep 03 13:54 |
| XFaCE | It's exactly what I said | Sep 03 13:54 |
| XFaCE | Attention, news converage | Sep 03 13:55 |
| XFaCE | distraction | Sep 03 13:55 |
| XFaCE | iophk: Right now, Microsoft is in "throw shit to distract you" mode | Sep 03 13:55 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 03 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Microsoft would not remain in control of Nokia if it went to recievership. | Sep 03 13:55 |
| iophk | so the impending bankruptcy forced their hand | Sep 03 13:56 |
| oiaohm | iophk: remember blackberry is in the same boat. | Sep 03 13:56 |
| iophk | but I though there were no real patents left at Nokia. | Sep 03 13:56 |
| oiaohm | it costs a fortune to make phones. | Sep 03 13:56 |
| oiaohm | You need a few billion a year just in R&D for items you will never sell with phones. | Sep 03 13:57 |
| oiaohm | This is my problem aquiring Nokia is going to push MS operating costs up a lot. | Sep 03 13:57 |
| MinceR | i don't mind that | Sep 03 13:57 |
| iophk | and as mentioned, they can hide the costs somewhat by burying them in other divisions. | Sep 03 13:58 |
| oiaohm | iophk: problem what divisions are growing. | Sep 03 13:58 |
| iophk | none, | Sep 03 13:58 |
| oiaohm | iophk: for one Australian government has reduced there MS Windows aquirement this year. | Sep 03 13:59 |
| iophk | but putting them together makes it harder for the press (what's left of it) to single out any specific units. | Sep 03 13:59 |
| oiaohm | why every contract over $80 000 AUD for the Australian government has to be reviewed if open source solutions will be cheaper or better. | Sep 03 13:59 |
| oiaohm | This started this year. | Sep 03 13:59 |
| iophk | expect to see a lot of $79 999 AUD contracts :P | Sep 03 14:01 |
| oiaohm | iophk: redhat and drupal is doing very well this year in Australia. | Sep 03 14:01 |
| iophk | Excellent. Red Hat is quite a success story and has been for a while. | Sep 03 14:01 |
| oiaohm | iophk: its not simple todo that inside Australian government rules. | Sep 03 14:01 |
| oiaohm | iophk: aquirements have to be whole department. | Sep 03 14:02 |
| oiaohm | You cannot break aquirements up into small chunks. | Sep 03 14:02 |
| XFaCE | iophk: As I speak, CBC news reporting how MS sharesholder are happy and how they can take on Apple now etc. etc. blah blah | Sep 03 14:02 |
| XFaCE | exactly what I expected | Sep 03 14:02 |
| XFaCE | vacuous nothing news stories | Sep 03 14:02 |
| oiaohm | iophk: so fairly much anything under 60 000 is like stables. | Sep 03 14:02 |
| oiaohm | iophk: so is only 20 000 too high to completley block closed source. | Sep 03 14:03 |
| oiaohm | iophk: mind you it causing a interesting problem. Australian schools have been teaching MS only. So now they need open source skilled people hello problem. | Sep 03 14:05 |
| iophk | probably a lot of M$ boosters have dug in and made it hard to bring in competent IT staff or trainers | Sep 03 14:06 |
| iophk | 20+ years ago, schools used to insist on teaching multiple vendor's products so that the could teach the princples involved. | Sep 03 14:07 |
| XFaCE | iophk: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/09/03/business-microsoft-nokia-deal.html | Sep 03 14:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.cbc.ca | Microsoft buys Nokia smartphones, services in $7.6B deal - Business - CBC News [ http://ur1.ca/fcybl ] | Sep 03 14:07 |
| iophk | Qubecalc + Quattro etc | Sep 03 14:07 |
| XFaCE | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23940171 | Sep 03 14:07 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.bbc.co.uk | BBC News - Microsoft to buy Nokia's mobile phone unit [ http://ur1.ca/fcybx ] | Sep 03 14:07 |
| XFaCE | iophk: The vacous news comes in droves | Sep 03 14:08 |
| iophk | Yes, noise. | Sep 03 14:08 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: remember skype they had to end up writing that off. | Sep 03 14:08 |
| XFaCE | the Reuters article is the only that mentions the "mole" part | Sep 03 14:08 |
| iophk | The M$ bribery / kickback news seems to have stopped. | Sep 03 14:08 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: But damn, it gave them attention in the press | Sep 03 14:08 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: Microsoft: Look at me! Look at me! | Sep 03 14:08 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: I am not worried abotu press. | Sep 03 14:08 |
| XFaCE | I am | Sep 03 14:08 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: all the press in the world will not change the finanical mess. | Sep 03 14:09 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: The problem is while people in general seem to be tending toward greater skepticism towards gov't, business news seems to be still likely to be accepted at face value | Sep 03 14:09 |
| XFaCE | for example, this comment on the BBC website: | Sep 03 14:10 |
| iophk | XFaCE: M$ always uses 'Look at me! Look at me!' whenever a competitor does something valuable. | Sep 03 14:10 |
| XFaCE | "It's amazing really how poor Nokia have been. They had a total monopoly over the market back in the day and just sat on it, didn't innovate / modernise. | Sep 03 14:10 |
| XFaCE | A classic case of getting way too comfortable with ones dominance and taking their eye of the ball..." | Sep 03 14:10 |
| iophk | It often comes in the form of an announcement of vaporware. | Sep 03 14:10 |
| XFaCE | But THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE | Sep 03 14:10 |
| XFaCE | Saying it's cause Nokia became lazy or whatever wasn't the problem | Sep 03 14:11 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: you think about it all this look at me. | Sep 03 14:11 |
| iophk | The alpha product hits the shelves some 2- 3 years later, but people hold off on buying the competitor. | Sep 03 14:11 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: what is going to happen if no Income boost comes. | Sep 03 14:11 |
| iophk | They choose instead to wait for the M$ product so they can 'compare' it. | Sep 03 14:11 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: in regards to MS? | Sep 03 14:11 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: Hype = Investors expecting more. Failure of Hype=Punished in share price. | Sep 03 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Dropped share price equals lower company value. | Sep 03 14:12 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: which will happen here | Sep 03 14:12 |
| XFaCE | and the way Microsoft is going, I completely expect a Nortel situation | Sep 03 14:12 |
| oiaohm | What results in Microsoft having to pay back debts. | Sep 03 14:12 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: I think the gov't will bail out Microsoft | Sep 03 14:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically its a cascading bomb. | Sep 03 14:12 |
| XFaCE | Microsoft will plead that they are "necessary" for infrastructure and the US economy [insert patriotism here] | Sep 03 14:13 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: and exactly what is the result of USA government bailing them out. | Sep 03 14:13 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: The same as the banks | Sep 03 14:13 |
| XFaCE | Microsoft does exactly the same as they always have | Sep 03 14:13 |
| oiaohm | Instant blacklist to particular countries world wide. | Sep 03 14:13 |
| XFaCE | Maybe like the auto companies, they'll change a little | Sep 03 14:14 |
| XFaCE | well, not all the US auto companies | Sep 03 14:14 |
| XFaCE | GM in particular | Sep 03 14:14 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: auto companies don't get black listed because aquired by governement. | Sep 03 14:14 |
| XFaCE | the other ones actually did adapt and change for the better | Sep 03 14:14 |
| iophk | I forget which, Volvo or Saab, was on the verge of making a hybrid when they got bought out and shutdown. | Sep 03 14:14 |
| oiaohm | MS is not in a location to be bailed out by governement. | Sep 03 14:14 |
| XFaCE | iophk: That would be Saab, Volvo is doing fine | Sep 03 14:15 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you alluding to the NSA issue here? | Sep 03 14:15 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: the NSA issue has cost MS some contracts already. | Sep 03 14:15 |
| XFaCE | That if Microsoft was "acquired" in a bailout by the US gov't, it would add further distrust? | Sep 03 14:16 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: if Microsoft was major owned by governement it will cost them more. | Sep 03 14:16 |
| oiaohm | XFaCE: exactly. | Sep 03 14:16 |
| XFaCE | good point | Sep 03 14:16 |
| iophk | The government does not take charge even if they paid for ownership. | Sep 03 14:16 |
| oiaohm | You don't get out of a hole diging yourself in deeper. | Sep 03 14:16 |
| XFaCE | I hadn't adjusted my outlook with the recent NSA news | Sep 03 14:16 |
| iophk | Essentially it is a blank check to continue mismanagement at the taxpayer's expense-. | Sep 03 14:16 |
| XFaCE | iophk: especially with the banks | Sep 03 14:17 |
| XFaCE | oiaohm: iophk does have a point | Sep 03 14:17 |
| oiaohm | iophk: each case with auto and banks they did apoint people to boards. | Sep 03 14:17 |
| iophk | Yes with the banks, they paid for them, they should own them. | Sep 03 14:17 |
| iophk | Appointing to the board is weak. | Sep 03 14:17 |
| iophk | They paid the debts, they should assume ownership. If I pay back taxes on debts on a property, I am the new owner. | Sep 03 14:18 |
| oiaohm | iophk: Appointing to board when you only need to embed back doors and make sure your back doors don't get removed is powerful enough. | Sep 03 14:18 |
| iophk | It should work like that. | Sep 03 14:18 |
| XFaCE | when the executive ignore the board | Sep 03 14:18 |
| iophk | oiaohm: good point, much of this is about back doors. | Sep 03 14:18 |
| XFaCE | which in the case of the banks, don't work | Sep 03 14:18 |
| XFaCE | because they have a bribing relationship with the gov't | Sep 03 14:19 |
| oiaohm | iophk: its about trust more than anything else. To operate Microsoft needs trust. | Sep 03 14:19 |
| iophk | lol | Sep 03 14:19 |
| oiaohm | iophk: banks can be hated and still operate. | Sep 03 14:19 |
| oiaohm | iophk: yes I know its lol that Microsoft is trusted. | Sep 03 14:19 |
| iophk | noone in IT has trusted M$ since the 1980's, if even then | Sep 03 14:19 |
| oiaohm | iophk: for some reason many governments around the world trust MS to provide a secure OS. | Sep 03 14:19 |
| iophk | Even in business they have screwed over every single partner they have worked with. | Sep 03 14:19 |
| iophk | Mokia is a recent case in point. | Sep 03 14:20 |
| iophk | Secure as in job security. not as in system security. | Sep 03 14:20 |
| oiaohm | iophk: MS was behind the secuirty policy for OS's being weakened. | Sep 03 14:20 |
| iophk | Many choose to promote M$ because they admire the bully Gates. | Sep 03 14:21 |
| iophk | It's a vote for their idol. | Sep 03 14:21 |
| iophk | The press has also been helping to whitewash his image. | Sep 03 14:21 |
| oiaohm | To be truthful Linux has had a boat anker named X11 | Sep 03 14:21 |
| iophk | and some kind of mess with Mer / Wayland | Sep 03 14:22 |
| oiaohm | securely tired to the bottom by video card makers. | Sep 03 14:22 |
| oiaohm | iophk: really Mer and Wayland is not a bad mess. | Sep 03 14:22 |
| iophk | Didn't OpenBSD make some kind of improvements to X11 with xenocara? | Sep 03 14:22 |
| oiaohm | No X11 server is secure. | Sep 03 14:22 |
| oiaohm | It has a stack of stupidity problems. | Sep 03 14:23 |
| iophk | Legacy problems that can't be avoided. | Sep 03 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly if you avoid them you are no longer X11 compadible properly. | Sep 03 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Like 1 all input even password boxes under X11 can be seen by all programs. | Sep 03 14:24 |
| iophk | yes, I recall seeing a run down some years ago of the eavesdropping problems. | Sep 03 14:24 |
| oiaohm | Remember governements want secure eavesdropping resistant OS's on desktops and else where. | Sep 03 14:25 |
| oiaohm | Both Mir and Wayland by design could offer eavesdropping resistant OS. | Sep 03 14:25 |
| oiaohm | Basically Mir and Wayland are not absolute crap. | Sep 03 14:25 |
| MinceR | x could too, if one is willing to accept such breaks from compatibility for security | Sep 03 14:26 |
| iophk | Can Mir or Wayland do remote apps? | Sep 03 14:26 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: the levels of breaks you are talking about you would fairly much end up with Wayland. | Sep 03 14:26 |
| iophk | That has been useful time and again. | Sep 03 14:26 |
| MinceR | though for secure remote apps i'm more partial to web interfaces | Sep 03 14:26 |
| iophk | SSL also has problems. | Sep 03 14:27 |
| oiaohm | iophk: Wayland is under way to have accelerated graphic support for compressing screen and sending it. | Sep 03 14:27 |
| oiaohm | iophk: so full 3d remote. | Sep 03 14:27 |
| MinceR | there you can even specify that a webapp isn't allowed to open more top-level windows | Sep 03 14:27 |
| MinceR | while another could be allowed to do so | Sep 03 14:27 |
| iophk | I don't use 3D but I guess that is a good thing anyway. | Sep 03 14:27 |
| oiaohm | iophk: yes stuff X11 could only do with the hack virtualgl and did badly. | Sep 03 14:27 |
| oiaohm | iophk: 3d remote you have to turn 2d on server. | Sep 03 14:28 |
| oiaohm | iophk: or the traffic is too large. | Sep 03 14:28 |
| oiaohm | iophk: you are missing something big. | Sep 03 14:29 |
| oiaohm | If you servers can do 3d rendering on server send 2d image over the wire. What size clients do you need. | Sep 03 14:29 |
| oiaohm | This is the return of the Mainframe. | Sep 03 14:30 |
| oiaohm | 1 or 2 big ass systems shared with everyone in the office. | Sep 03 14:30 |
| oiaohm | And everything else in the office being crappy. | Sep 03 14:31 |
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| MinceR | most users can't be trusted with managing a workstation anyway | Sep 03 14:35 |
| oiaohm | Exactly there are reasons for the mainframe age to return. | Sep 03 14:36 |
| oiaohm | Yes its funny we have gone around in a huge circile. | Sep 03 14:37 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 03 14:39 |
| MinceR | we've gone from "everyone has a terminal because that's all we can afford" to "everyone has a terminal because that's all we can manage", though :> | Sep 03 14:44 |
| iophk | LTSP is taking off in schools | Sep 03 14:45 |
| oiaohm | Its also all we can afford. | Sep 03 14:45 |
| oiaohm | iophk: LTSP currently cannot do 3d applications well. | Sep 03 14:45 |
| iophk | Useful in Canada even has special hardware | Sep 03 14:45 |
| oiaohm | The wayland fix ups also will bring proper multi seat. | Sep 03 14:46 |
| oiaohm | ie a 6 headed video card will be able to take 6 independant users. | Sep 03 14:46 |
| iophk | Multiseat rocks. | Sep 03 14:46 |
| oiaohm | Properly. | Sep 03 14:46 |
| MinceR | multiple rocking seats? :> | Sep 03 14:46 |
| iophk | Multiseat on X11 is probably an artifact of its complexity. | Sep 03 14:47 |
| iophk | Having it done on purpose (and presumably correctly) would be an improvement. | Sep 03 14:47 |
| oiaohm | iophk: Multiseat on X11 is a disaster due to Userspace drivers, Dri1,dri2 and dri3 being design wrong. | Sep 03 14:47 |
| iophk | you also have to guess at mice and keyboards, using trial and error to find the right ones | Sep 03 14:48 |
| oiaohm | All the drivers presume only 1 program will be incontrol the the graphical output settings of 1 video card. | Sep 03 14:48 |
| iophk | does HDMI simplify that? | Sep 03 14:48 |
| oiaohm | iophk: How many usb host controllers do some modern day motherboards have. | Sep 03 14:48 |
| iophk | 6 - 8 AFAIK | Sep 03 14:49 |
| oiaohm | iophk: ie like 8 independant pairs. | Sep 03 14:49 |
| oiaohm | So 2 usb ports per user. | Sep 03 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Add a few hubs and you are rocking. | Sep 03 14:49 |
| oiaohm | HDMI does not help. | Sep 03 14:49 |
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| oiaohm | iophk: setting output resultion on a video card. Was not per port. | Sep 03 14:50 |
| oiaohm | under the old drivers. | Sep 03 14:50 |
| oiaohm | It was per card and the setting set all ports at once | Sep 03 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Horrible stupid and nasty. | Sep 03 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Then to use gpu acceleration you had to have full control of the video card. | Sep 03 14:51 |
| oiaohm | This is also changing. | Sep 03 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Basically the internals of the Linux graphic stack is having a 20 year over due overhaul. | Sep 03 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Heck 30 years over due overhaul. Lot of the problems are pre Linux. | Sep 03 14:52 |
| iophk | I hope that is being coordinated not just across distros but across OS, like BSD and Illumos | Sep 03 14:52 |
| oiaohm | BSD has required a jackhammer. | Sep 03 14:52 |
| oiaohm | There are lots of things beening killed off in the clean up that the BSD guys did not want to put the work in. | Sep 03 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is going todo a release with no userspace X11 drivers. | Sep 03 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Userspace X11 drivers require the raw map of memory exposed to userspace. | Sep 03 14:53 |
| oiaohm | Or in otherwords what would you like to hack today. | Sep 03 14:53 |
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| oiaohm | iophk: the big problem is the minor OS's don't have the resourses to rebuild the graphic stack as required. | Sep 03 15:02 |
| oiaohm | iophk: so bsd and illumos will lag behind Linux and it cannot be helped. | Sep 03 15:03 |
| iophk | It cannot be helped but hopefully no unnecessary hinders will be added. | Sep 03 15:03 |
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| MinceR | they've spent the last decade lagging behind Linux :> | Sep 03 15:05 |
| iophk | In some areas. | Sep 03 15:05 |
| iophk | Linux is turning into a juggernaut | Sep 03 15:05 |
| iophk | it's already unstoppable. | Sep 03 15:05 |
| iophk | It's just a matter of how much larger its userbase will get and how fast. | Sep 03 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Linux is not unstoppable. | Sep 03 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Linux has been stopped by driver issues from taking particular markets. | Sep 03 15:06 |
| iophk | M$ owns the driver makers but I got the impression that some were breaking loose. | Sep 03 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Android and chrome os are working like icebreakers. | Sep 03 15:08 |
| MinceR | they're both Linux-based OSes | Sep 03 15:09 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: exactly but they are Linux based OS's companies are not shipping on server based hardware only. | Sep 03 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Linux has had a road block of OEM recultence and tech design errors in it path. | Sep 03 15:10 |
| oiaohm | This is why saying Linux is unstoppable is not exactly true. | Sep 03 15:10 |
| iophk | Maybe not yet, but I think that Android has changed that already. | Sep 03 15:11 |
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| oiaohm | Linux is stoppable mostly by being dumb enough at times to tie its shoes teother than attempt to run | Sep 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Then wonder why it falls on face. | Sep 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Classic examples are X11 and the long list of sound servers. | Sep 03 15:11 |
| iophk | About the sound servers, aren't the Android devices converging on one? | Sep 03 15:12 |
| oiaohm | iophk: no in android is still an arument between audiofinger and pulseaudio | Sep 03 15:12 |
| oiaohm | by reality there should not be a audio server. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Hardware access management is a kernel issue. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Mine you with audio server hell is only like tieing one hand behind back. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| oiaohm | You can still fight with audio server issues. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| oiaohm | Graphical server issues you are screwed. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| oiaohm | iophk: also note audioflinger is not found on general Linux desktops. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Android is moving down the path of using KMS and DRI systems like normal Linux desktops. | Sep 03 15:17 |
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| iophk | revisionism : http://www.zdnet.com/why-nokia-plus-microsoft-wont-equal-apple-its-much-more-complicated-than-that-7000020169/ | Sep 03 16:02 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.zdnet.com | Why Nokia plus Microsoft won't equal Apple: It's much more complicated than that | ZDNet [ http://ur1.ca/fd02l ] | Sep 03 16:02 |
| MinceR | yet they're pretty much equal | Sep 03 16:05 |
| MinceR | nokia=0 | Sep 03 16:06 |
| MinceR | microsoft=apple | Sep 03 16:06 |
| MinceR | 0+microsoft=apple | Sep 03 16:06 |
| iophk | he's also engaged in revisionism | Sep 03 16:07 |
| iophk | Nokia didn't start to fall until Elop's memo | Sep 03 16:07 |
| iophk | Their linux phone was even getting better reviews than the iPhone. | Sep 03 16:08 |
| iophk | That's probably one of the reasons Elop was called in to destroy Nokia | Sep 03 16:08 |
| MinceR | it isn't difficult to make a better phone than the hypePhone | Sep 03 16:09 |
| MinceR | and a competent reviewer would notice it | Sep 03 16:09 |
| MinceR | (not the ones who are an extremely inefficient implementation of the ('apple' ? 'good' : 'crap') expression, like the hacks at index.hu) | Sep 03 16:10 |
| iophk | Elop made the Linux phone hard to get, but people would even travel a good distance to get it. | Sep 03 16:10 |
| MinceR | only the GNU/Linux phone | Sep 03 16:11 |
| MinceR | non-GNU Linux phones are ubiquitous | Sep 03 16:11 |
| iophk | yes | Sep 03 16:11 |
| iophk | I'd go for a 'real' Gnu/Linux phone | Sep 03 16:11 |
| MinceR | so would i, so long as it had capable, up-to-date hardware and no lockdown | Sep 03 16:11 |
| iophk | that got set back 2 -4 years by Elop | Sep 03 16:11 |
| MinceR | (Aegis is unacceptable to me) | Sep 03 16:12 |
| MinceR | (lack of HSPA+ is also unacceptable to me) | Sep 03 16:12 |
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| __martin__ | so proud to know the OP of this mail in person https://lkml.org/lkml/2004/10/31/190 | Sep 03 16:56 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | lkml.org | LKML: "Jan 'JaSan' Sarenik": Re: Linux v2.6.9 and GPL Buyout | Sep 03 16:57 |
| __martin__ | nice historic window into SCO bully | Sep 03 16:57 |
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| MinceR | http://mikepohjola.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/dear-mr-nokia/ | Sep 03 17:10 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | mikepohjola.wordpress.com | Dear MR NOKIA! | Musta tuntuu [ http://ur1.ca/fd0rk ] | Sep 03 17:10 |
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| sebsebseb | Sep 03 18:51 | |
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| MinceR | http://p.coldline.hu/2013/09/03/1170456-20130903-qUU5fP.jpg | Sep 03 19:51 |
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| Sosumi | probably already known | Sep 03 22:53 |
| Sosumi | http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-10/911-prismgate-how-carlyle-group-lbod-worlds-secrets | Sep 03 22:53 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.zerohedge.com | From 9/11 To PRISMgate - How The Carlyle Group LBO'd The World's Secrets | Zero Hedge [ http://ur1.ca/fd5e2 ] | Sep 03 22:53 |
| Sosumi | also lol at M$ buying nokia, lol, I used to own a couple comunicators and a couple N series feature phones | Sep 03 22:55 |
| *MinceR owns a 6101 and an n97 (both are crap) | Sep 03 22:55 | |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: I got given a Nokia 770 tablet to me yesterday for free | Sep 03 22:56 |
| sebsebseb | and some other stuff to | Sep 03 22:56 |
| Sosumi | on my opinion it'd have been a lot better for Nokia to keep using sybian | Sep 03 22:57 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: this is a old tablet running Meaeo | Sep 03 22:57 |
| sebsebseb | what was there before Megoo | Sep 03 22:57 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: I think I can see why the guy decided to give it away for free | Sep 03 22:58 |
| sebsebseb | doesn't seem that great really | Sep 03 22:58 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I guess back in 2005/6 it was quite good | Sep 03 22:58 |
| MinceR | yes, even symbian is better than winblows phony | Sep 03 22:58 |
| Sosumi | I don't know that much about megoo | Sep 03 22:58 |
| sebsebseb | Meamo is their LInux distro bsaed on Debian | Sep 03 22:58 |
| sebsebseb | then they went to Meego and Meamo died | Sep 03 22:58 |
| sebsebseb | see wikipedia or somethign | Sep 03 22:59 |
| MinceR | MeeGo was a successor to Maemo | Sep 03 22:59 |
| sebsebseb | yep | Sep 03 22:59 |
| MinceR | partly derived from it | Sep 03 22:59 |
| Sosumi | but nokia did have some some internet tablets, that could do exactly that, browse the web | Sep 03 22:59 |
| Sosumi | before the hypePAD | Sep 03 22:59 |
| Sosumi | but outside of the stores, I've never seen them much in the hands of ppl | Sep 03 23:00 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: right bingo and that's what I have | Sep 03 23:03 |
| sebsebseb | a Internet tablet | Sep 03 23:03 |
| sebsebseb | ,but that can also be used for a sat nav or wahtever | Sep 03 23:03 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: seems the guy giving me this stuff | Sep 03 23:04 |
| sebsebseb | was using APple something or the other to | Sep 03 23:04 |
| sebsebseb | going by the email client extension :d | Sep 03 23:04 |
| sebsebseb | ,but he gave me that, a Mini PC | Sep 03 23:05 |
| Sosumi | crApple | Sep 03 23:05 |
| Sosumi | lol | Sep 03 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | a Dbox2 ever hear of one of those? | Sep 03 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | nearly didn't take the Dbox2, but was able to take that back in a taxi so :d | Sep 03 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | some sort of mouse as well | Sep 03 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | ,but not just some standard mouse | Sep 03 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | the Mini PC got demand :d | Sep 03 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I have it so :d | Sep 03 23:06 |
| sebsebseb | need to put a hard disk in it or whatever, but then can use it for stuff etc | Sep 03 23:06 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: Hypepad yeah | Sep 03 23:06 |
| sebsebseb | well good luck for our installfest next year :d | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | yeah I m going to help organise one :) | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | an Apple instalfest though putting Apple stuff onto peoples computers oh yeah :d | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: Itunes and uhmm | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | other Apple stuff | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | installing into Windwos isntalls | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | for fun | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | ! | Sep 03 23:07 |
| Sosumi | lol | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | put in some p irated Micrsooft Office whilst at it to maybe :d | Sep 03 23:07 |
| sebsebseb | oh and if they got it for Mac even better the Microsoft version for Mac | Sep 03 23:08 |
| Sosumi | install texworks instead | Sep 03 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | and if they got alternative browsers installed into Windows | Sep 03 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | we will remove them | Sep 03 23:08 |
| sebsebseb | and tell them to use Internet Explorer for fun! | Sep 03 23:08 |
| Sosumi | lol | Sep 03 23:08 |
| MinceR | there's nothing fun about using IE | Sep 03 23:08 |
| MinceR | damn thing takes ages "connecting" just to open a new tab | Sep 03 23:09 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: no no IE is awesome, hence what I am saying above | Sep 03 23:09 |
| MinceR | and blocks popups coming from inactive tabs | Sep 03 23:09 |
| sebsebseb | you silly Microsoft hater you MinceR :d | Sep 03 23:09 |
| Sosumi | well actually, IE is better than safari | Sep 03 23:09 |
| MinceR | it's the same unreliable, inexplicable pile of shit as the rest of m$ crap | Sep 03 23:09 |
| MinceR | well, that must be a close match | Sep 03 23:09 |
| sebsebseb | heh heh | Sep 03 23:09 |
| sebsebseb | yeah Safari is proprirtary to | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | and that's Apple so hmm | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | however has Webkit in it | Sep 03 23:10 |
| Sosumi | safari tends to crash even when playing html5 videos | Sep 03 23:10 |
| MinceR | one of the least stable browser engines i'm aware of | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | anyway yeah an installfest of propritary software | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | bye bye anything open source | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | or kind of good, but propritary | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | why? uhmm, because we can! | Sep 03 23:10 |
| sebsebseb | and for a laugh! | Sep 03 23:10 |
| Sosumi | I can shoot myself on the foot | Sep 03 23:11 |
| Sosumi | because I can | Sep 03 23:11 |
| Sosumi | :P | Sep 03 23:11 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: yes you can | Sep 03 23:11 |
| sebsebseb | now where's that gun? | Sep 03 23:11 |
| *sebsebseb waits for Sosumi to shoot himself in the foot | Sep 03 23:11 | |
| Sosumi | but lol, don't go troll poor folks who know nothing about computers | Sep 03 23:11 |
| sebsebseb | BANG! | Sep 03 23:11 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: no I am to nice to do that really :) | Sep 03 23:11 |
| sebsebseb | instead we are going to organise an installfest | Sep 03 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | with a few Linux distros :) | Sep 03 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | and aim it at people with old XP installs and that kind of thing :) | Sep 03 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | and have it next year before XP goes end of ilfe, well unless they extend again, since the WIndows 8 failure | Sep 03 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | apparnatly it's now over taken Vista installs though | Sep 03 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | uh I mean the Windows 8 success maybe above :d depending on how you look at it :d | Sep 03 23:12 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: MinceR oh, but that means UBuntu at this install fest hmm | Sep 03 23:13 |
| sebsebseb | probably | Sep 03 23:13 |
| MinceR | CrunchBang and even Debian are better | Sep 03 23:13 |
| sebsebseb | or Mint? | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | I guess could have Ubuntu, but recommend against installing ti heh heh | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | at least show it | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | hmm | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | one guy wants Open Suse | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | I want Magiea :) | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | ,but people genrally think Ubuntu for install fests, and maybe even Mint for these days | Sep 03 23:14 |
| Sosumi | ubuntu, after Shuttlewom's love affair with M$, not even once | Sep 03 23:14 |
| sebsebseb | I think with Ubuntu tehr'se no point really, unless they like Unity now | Sep 03 23:15 |
| Sosumi | let canonical sink | Sep 03 23:15 |
| MinceR | http://thelapine.ca/harper-says-he-twerks-occasionally-thinks-it-means-tweeting/ | Sep 03 23:15 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | thelapine.ca | THE LAPINE [ http://ur1.ca/fd5n3 ] | Sep 03 23:15 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: yeah, but it's kind of hmm to not have Ubuntu at an install fest | Sep 03 23:15 |
| sebsebseb | aimed at really non technical people etc | Sep 03 23:15 |
| Sosumi | for that there's mint with cynamon | Sep 03 23:16 |
| Sosumi | really good looking | Sep 03 23:16 |
| sebsebseb | Mint isn't really needed now either htough | Sep 03 23:16 |
| sebsebseb | well soon in the case of Mageia :d | Sep 03 23:16 |
| sebsebseb | Mageia 4 has Mate and Cinnamon in Cauldron already :) | Sep 03 23:16 |
| sebsebseb | the development rolling release | Sep 03 23:16 |
| Sosumi | well that's nice | Sep 03 23:16 |
| sebsebseb | so what's the point with MInt really then, unless going to have codecs by default | Sep 03 23:16 |
| sebsebseb | ,but it's easy enough to install codecs into most distors | Sep 03 23:16 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Sep 03 23:17 |
| sebsebseb | and sudo apt-get install ubuntu-restriced-extras in the case of Ubuntu | Sep 03 23:17 |
| sebsebseb | and so yeah what is the point really of Mint? if Cinnamon and Mate can be used in something else anyway? | Sep 03 23:17 |
| sebsebseb | my idea is to have a few trying/demostraiton pc's of a few distros and desktop envrionemtns and sy stuff | Sep 03 23:17 |
| sebsebseb | and then to give out LIve USB's of stuff and CD's and what not | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | and install stuff if people want it | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: Sosumi here's the thing though, this old guy thinks we should do single boots | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | only | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | or unoffically maybe a dual boot to | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | it's just if WIndows goes wrong.... | Sep 03 23:18 |
| MinceR | which old guy? | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | oh someone from the LUG | Sep 03 23:18 |
| MinceR | well, dual-booting winblows from the same drive can break the dual-booting arrangement | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | yes exactly | Sep 03 23:18 |
| sebsebseb | possbily | Sep 03 23:19 |
| MinceR | m$ has innovated in the field of breaking other OSes on the same machine | Sep 03 23:19 |
| sebsebseb | it seems we may go for single boot | Sep 03 23:19 |
| MinceR | it's safer to dual-boot via separate system disks | Sep 03 23:19 |
| sebsebseb | ,but then can get the, oh, but I still want Windows... | Sep 03 23:19 |
| sebsebseb | since I got this or that program | Sep 03 23:19 |
| MinceR | or install winblows on a VM | Sep 03 23:19 |
| sebsebseb | so if removing WIndows competly hmm | Sep 03 23:19 |
| MinceR | that way it doesn't get to fuck up the hardware | Sep 03 23:19 |
| sebsebseb | also if they have Windows on the computer still | Sep 03 23:19 |
| sebsebseb | they might just end up botting that up still mainly | Sep 03 23:20 |
| sebsebseb | which kind of defates the point of having LInux distro installed | Sep 03 23:20 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 03 23:21 |
| sebsebseb | sometimes having Windows around can be useful to test hardware though hmm | Sep 03 23:21 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: I guess single boots is a good idea then | Sep 03 23:21 |
| sebsebseb | ,but with a few options of distro :) | Sep 03 23:21 |
| sebsebseb | show them de's etc | Sep 03 23:22 |
| sebsebseb | say something about differences, let them choose something :) | Sep 03 23:22 |
| sebsebseb | people will go on look probably non technical | Sep 03 23:22 |
| MinceR | i guess so | Sep 03 23:22 |
| sebsebseb | they might like say the look of Unity, but not GNOME Shell | Sep 03 23:22 |
| Sosumi | just don't talk too much about games | Sep 03 23:22 |
| MinceR | xonotic ftw | Sep 03 23:22 |
| Sosumi | nor about the outdated flash plugin | Sep 03 23:22 |
| sebsebseb | or like the look of KDE since more Windows like, but not XFCE or LXDE so mcuh or whatever | Sep 03 23:22 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: nor about how Adobe might drop Flash supp9rt for LInux in a few years or wahtever I read before | Sep 03 23:23 |
| Sosumi | yeap | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | well it will be marketd at old XP install epople | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | emails | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | typing | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | web browsing | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | photo editing | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | basics | Sep 03 23:23 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Sep 03 23:23 |
| Sosumi | but derp facebook peoplz | Sep 03 23:23 |
| sebsebseb | we plan to do this in March though | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | April 8th being the end of support of XP unless they extend again | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | so in that case a good time to remove XP from old computers I guess :) | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | assuming it really does go end of life etc | Sep 03 23:24 |
| Sosumi | will probably notice when their derpbook fails to launch or stutters | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | people want to use their computer online usauly :) | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: yeah Facebook type people | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | people who may end up using their smart phone for most of their computer useage | Sep 03 23:24 |
| sebsebseb | ,because their Windows install is to slow now etc | Sep 03 23:24 |
| Sosumi | yeah, the kind of ppl who install those nasty bars for their browser | Sep 03 23:25 |
| sebsebseb | yep bingo | Sep 03 23:25 |
| sebsebseb | those who may get some browser bar installed and well just carry on as normal | Sep 03 23:25 |
| sebsebseb | and not think, oh what's that? | Sep 03 23:25 |
| sebsebseb | should mabye try and remove that | Sep 03 23:25 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: I guess can do newer machines though as well | Sep 03 23:26 |
| sebsebseb | ,but again might want to do just the single boot then to :d | Sep 03 23:26 |
| sebsebseb | also with Windows 8, who wants to mess around with UEFI secure boot? | Sep 03 23:26 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I guess can remove it from some machine :d | Sep 03 23:26 |
| Sosumi | I don't, lol | Sep 03 23:26 |
| sebsebseb | I think marketing is importatn | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | and showing/demenstrating stuff | Sep 03 23:27 |
| Sosumi | but if it's a bios machine, then you can keep dual boot | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | so get the right kind of people, and so those people also get an idea what kind of thing they will be getting them selves into etc | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | if it's put on their computer | Sep 03 23:27 |
| Sosumi | if the user wants to keep it for gaming | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | I think with a Windows 8 machine can ignore secure boot usauly if well it's WINdows 8 that needs it | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | not the LInux distor | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: I think the idea is go for single boots, unoffically maybe some duals to | Sep 03 23:27 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: I think got to fit things for someones useage | Sep 03 23:28 |
| sebsebseb | do they really have some specific program that needs Windows? that there is no proper alternative for, for their useage? etc etc | Sep 03 23:28 |
| sebsebseb | or they have some other computer they can use anyway for that? | Sep 03 23:29 |
| sebsebseb | if neassarey | Sep 03 23:29 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: MinceR shoudn't have the Windows dislike bliding things I mean :D | Sep 03 23:31 |
| MinceR | bliding? | Sep 03 23:31 |
| sebsebseb | blinding | Sep 03 23:31 |
| sebsebseb | covering someones eyes from reality | Sep 03 23:32 |
| sebsebseb | in this context | Sep 03 23:32 |
| sebsebseb | basicaly | Sep 03 23:32 |
| Sosumi | well, M$ dislike blinding reason? | Sep 03 23:32 |
| sebsebseb | some people should still have a Windows install | Sep 03 23:33 |
| sebsebseb | ,because the Linux distro won't fit all of hteir computer useage | Sep 03 23:33 |
| sebsebseb | properly | Sep 03 23:33 |
| Sosumi | yeah | Sep 03 23:33 |
| sebsebseb | also I think it's ok to install some programs in Wine | Sep 03 23:33 |
| sebsebseb | if they work great :) | Sep 03 23:33 |
| Sosumi | that too | Sep 03 23:33 |
| sebsebseb | however would ideally want people using native stuff | Sep 03 23:34 |
| sebsebseb | ,but sometimes you just get people who like outlook and things they can replace with other stuff eaislly really | Sep 03 23:34 |
| MinceR | some people should have a hump on their back, got it | Sep 03 23:34 |
| MinceR | :> | Sep 03 23:34 |
| sebsebseb | also it's Office 2003 running out of support not just XP | Sep 03 23:34 |
| sebsebseb | unless extended | Sep 03 23:34 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: what do you mean? | Sep 03 23:34 |
| MinceR | you said it like some people should have a handicap :> | Sep 03 23:35 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: oh heh heh | Sep 03 23:35 |
| sebsebseb | some people have a very speicifc program | Sep 03 23:35 |
| sebsebseb | that like it or not requries Windows | Sep 03 23:36 |
| sebsebseb | that can'st just be replaced with something else, for their useage of it | Sep 03 23:36 |
| sebsebseb | in those cases Wine? or a dual boot if Wine doesn't just work with it for example | Sep 03 23:36 |
| MinceR | or a winblows VM | Sep 03 23:36 |
| sebsebseb | or a Windows VM depending on program yes | Sep 03 23:36 |
| sebsebseb | this chat ish elping me | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | I got a meeting coming up with the other organisers in person | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | to talk about stuff like this | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | what I don't want to do is, be like, oh let's remove WIndows, but then they get stuck since, there is something | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | and Linux distro doesn't cut it | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | at all really | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | and not, because they weren't going to try some other program, but in general | Sep 03 23:37 |
| sebsebseb | there is no proper alternative for that thing | Sep 03 23:38 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 03 23:38 |
| Sosumi | I wouldn't bother too much with that, usually the only software you can't really find a good alternative for linux | Sep 03 23:41 |
| Sosumi | is CAD/CAM stuff | Sep 03 23:41 |
| Sosumi | like the autodesk suites and the adobe stuff | Sep 03 23:42 |
| Cirrus_Minor | http://ix.io/7P9 | Sep 03 23:42 |
| Sosumi | maybe something more I'm not aware off | Sep 03 23:42 |
| sebsebseb | yep CAD, Photoshop etc | Sep 03 23:42 |
| sebsebseb | Sosumi: MinceR Photoshop in many cases can be replaced | Sep 03 23:49 |
| sebsebseb | they are just doing basic photo or graphics design | Sep 03 23:49 |
| sebsebseb | GIMP, Inksapce etc good enough :) | Sep 03 23:49 |
| MinceR | indeed, usually by a photo editor that doesn't suck quite as much | Sep 03 23:49 |
| sebsebseb | yep :) | Sep 03 23:49 |
| sebsebseb | Wine is much better than it was years ago to :D | Sep 03 23:50 |
| sebsebseb | altough not used for ages saying that | Sep 03 23:51 |
| Sosumi | well I really don't know | Sep 03 23:58 |
| Sosumi | since I've never found the need to use photoshop or gimp | Sep 03 23:58 |
| sebsebseb | yes same here really | Sep 03 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | Tuxpaint is about as far as I goto actasuly making anything like that :d | Sep 03 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | and I am not joking | Sep 03 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | and I love Tuxpaint :) | Sep 03 23:59 |
| Sosumi | lol | Sep 03 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | you think I am joking | Sep 03 23:59 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I am not | Sep 03 23:59 |
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