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| DaemonFC | I was at the funeral home all day today for my aunt's viewing. | Sep 05 04:41 |
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| DaemonFC | Hundreds of people showed up. | Sep 05 04:41 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Sep 05 09:07 |
| iophk | http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/vint-cer-isps-ipv6-google-glass-126363 | Sep 05 10:26 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.techweekeurope.co.uk | Vint Cerf Wants Public Outcry Over ISPs' failure To Introduce IPv6 [ http://ur1.ca/fdxfu ] | Sep 05 10:26 |
| iophk | perhaps it is the increased security that IPv6 would bring which is preventing it from being adopted | Sep 05 10:27 |
| iophk | many backdoors and snooping opportunities would go away. | Sep 05 10:27 |
| iophk | That and Windows problems | Sep 05 10:30 |
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| iophk | http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/mailpile-taking-e-mail-back?c=activity | Sep 05 14:03 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.indiegogo.com | Mailpile - taking e-mail back | Indiegogo [ http://ur1.ca/fdzta ] | Sep 05 14:03 |
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| MisterE | o/ JimmyCarter :) | Sep 05 14:36 |
| MisterE | https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/09/hundreds-pages-nsa-spying-documents-be-released-result-eff-lawsuit | Sep 05 14:36 |
| JimmyCarter | http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/09/david-stockman/imperium-rip/ | Sep 05 14:36 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.eff.org | Hundreds of Pages of NSA Spying Documents to be Released As Result of EFF Lawsuit | Electronic Frontier Foundation [ http://ur1.ca/fdwtg ] | Sep 05 14:36 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.lewrockwell.com | Imperium, RIP – [ http://ur1.ca/fe05e ] | Sep 05 14:36 |
| MisterE | heh | Sep 05 14:36 |
| MisterE | talk about timing | Sep 05 14:36 |
| MisterE | JimmyCarter: you think congress has the balls to do it? | Sep 05 14:38 |
| MisterE | so far they look like a bunch of pushovers | Sep 05 14:38 |
| MisterE | very disappointed it made it through committee | Sep 05 14:38 |
| JimmyCarter | final lines in articles says it all | Sep 05 14:39 |
| JimmyCarter | But however the current debate specifically unfolds, the good news is that the world greatest deliberative body is now back in charge of American foreign policy. By long standing historical demonstration, the US Congress specializes in paralysis, indecision and dysfunction. In the end, that is how the American warfare state will be finally brought to heel and why the American Imperium will come to an end—at last. | Sep 05 14:39 |
| MisterE | yea there is some progress | Sep 05 14:40 |
| msb_ | http://www.infowars.com/exclusive-high-level-source-confirms-secret-us-nuclear-warhead-transfer-to-east-coast/ | Sep 05 15:37 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.infowars.com | » Exclusive: High Level Source Confirms Secret US Nuclear Warhead Transfer Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! [ http://ur1.ca/fe0t2 ] | Sep 05 15:37 |
| msb_ | From 2007: http://www.globalresearch.ca/missing-nukes-treason-of-the-highest-order/7158 | Sep 05 15:39 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.globalresearch.ca | Missing Nukes: Treason of the Highest Order | Global Research [ http://ur1.ca/fe0tm ] | Sep 05 15:39 |
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| MisterE | I wish alex jones would reign it in a little | Sep 05 15:46 |
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| msb_ | MisterE: I think Jones does just fine, except that he's a right-winger on economics, and doesn't realize that unregulated capitalism leads to control of the government and media by the ultra-wealthy, and thus to fascism. And I think you mean "rein". | Sep 05 17:10 |
| msb_ | Interesting that globalresearch.ca, perhaps the best site for international events/politics was down for hours this morning. | Sep 05 17:11 |
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| cubezzz | Alex Jones interviewed Stallman a while back | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| sebsebseb | cubezzz: uhmm schestowitz interviewsd Stallman on techbytes | Sep 05 18:14 |
| sebsebseb | and cut it up into really short episodes uh | Sep 05 18:14 |
| sebsebseb | with the getting old theme tune etc uh | Sep 05 18:14 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: I have a oppertunity to see Linus Torvalds do a talk next month, but I think it's still a no | Sep 05 18:15 |
| sebsebseb | going to that event | Sep 05 18:15 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: plus knowing me I may even miss that talk anyway, since not much of a early morning person etc | Sep 05 18:15 |
| sebsebseb | I mean if I were to go | Sep 05 18:15 |
| cubezzz | well there's probably will be a video I imagine | Sep 05 18:15 |
| sebsebseb | yep exactly there will probably be a vbideo | Sep 05 18:15 |
| cubezzz | s/there's/there will/ | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: plus it's only 45 minuetes with whoever else | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | not like he would want to chat to me probably | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | etc | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | probably woudn't get a chance to chat to him inf act or not much of one if so | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: there's one event I am going to for sure :) | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | ,but then this other one that follows, I am thinkking no | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | it's to technical for me most of the talks really | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | etc | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | so probably not really worth it | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | in my case | Sep 05 18:16 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: am I an IT Pro? | Sep 05 18:17 |
| sebsebseb | nope | Sep 05 18:17 |
| sebsebseb | do I do stuff with the cloud etc, nope | Sep 05 18:17 |
| cubezzz | Thompson and Kernighan would be interesting to talk to too | Sep 05 18:17 |
| cubezzz | Kernighan was Canadian | Sep 05 18:17 |
| sebsebseb | who is that? | Sep 05 18:17 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: this event would be quite interesting I am sure, if I was more technical, but that is not the case | Sep 05 18:17 |
| sebsebseb | http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe/program/schedule | Sep 05 18:18 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | events.linuxfoundation.org | Schedule | Linux Conferences and Linux Events | The Linux Foundation [ http://ur1.ca/fe2mh ] | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | been to similar things before | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | ,but FOSDEM is differnet and awesome :) | Sep 05 18:18 |
| cubezzz | Unix pioneer, inventor of C language | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe/program/schedule | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: that to, do I program? nope | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: Monday morning looks quite bad to me | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | a Twitter talk etc | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | uh I don't like Twitter, may be interesting how they run the backend | Sep 05 18:18 |
| sebsebseb | ,but whatever it's Twitter | Sep 05 18:18 |
| cubezzz | well I should really say Dennis Ritchie invented C | Sep 05 18:19 |
| sebsebseb | may get another oppertunity to see Linus do a talk anwyay depends I guess | Sep 05 18:19 |
| cubezzz | but K&R the K was Kernighan | Sep 05 18:19 |
| sebsebseb | and I have seen Richard STallman earlier this year | Sep 05 18:19 |
| sebsebseb | even got to talk to him afterwoulds, but not really how I wanted, buty eah | Sep 05 18:19 |
| cubezzz | that's cool | Sep 05 18:20 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: look at the scheduled here though, what do you think? http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe/program/schedule | Sep 05 18:20 |
| sebsebseb | http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe/program/schedule | Sep 05 18:20 |
| cubezzz | yeah, lots of interesting stuff there | Sep 05 18:22 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: interesting stuff such as? | Sep 05 18:22 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: what I am saying is I am probably not going to this event! | Sep 05 18:23 |
| sebsebseb | even though I culd book it | Sep 05 18:23 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: ,because most of the talks are going to be to technical for me really | Sep 05 18:23 |
| sebsebseb | I have seen quite technical talks at FOSDEM for example | Sep 05 18:23 |
| cubezzz | well Wayland/X Compositor... | Sep 05 18:23 |
| sebsebseb | also I don't care enough about Twiter | Sep 05 18:23 |
| sebsebseb | or the cloud | Sep 05 18:23 |
| sebsebseb | yeah there are a few talks in there that would be interesting though | Sep 05 18:24 |
| cubezzz | recent advances in Linux tracing... | Sep 05 18:24 |
| sebsebseb | and some that are less technical, but the less techhical ones don't really seem worth it htough | Sep 05 18:24 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: what's Linux tracing ? | Sep 05 18:24 |
| sebsebseb | and of course there would be at alk about Wayland now :d distros are going wayland next year, etc | Sep 05 18:24 |
| cubezzz | a method of debugging | Sep 05 18:24 |
| sebsebseb | with the exception of Ub untu since Mir | Sep 05 18:24 |
| sebsebseb | debugging what the kernel ? | Sep 05 18:24 |
| cubezzz | e.g. tracing a program | Sep 05 18:25 |
| cubezzz | any program | Sep 05 18:25 |
| sebsebseb | what's tracing ? | Sep 05 18:25 |
| cubezzz | well your following the precise execution path of a program, seeing what it does | Sep 05 18:26 |
| cubezzz | part of fixing bugs | Sep 05 18:26 |
| cubezzz | checking performance | Sep 05 18:26 |
| sebsebseb | oh right ok I see | Sep 05 18:27 |
| sebsebseb | ,but as I said earlier I am not a programmer | Sep 05 18:27 |
| cubezzz | righto :) | Sep 05 18:27 |
| sebsebseb | so probalby woudn't be much use for me at the momen such a talk | Sep 05 18:27 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: to be honest being into tech is ak ind of curse at times | Sep 05 18:27 |
| sebsebseb | since "average" people don't care | Sep 05 18:28 |
| sebsebseb | can make it hard to make freinds at times etc | Sep 05 18:28 |
| sebsebseb | depends | Sep 05 18:28 |
| sebsebseb | or in the past has been like that depends | Sep 05 18:28 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: plus not technical enough to work with it really or most jobs in that, so uh | Sep 05 18:28 |
| cubezzz | well, it can be a bit of overload if you're not familiar with the subject | Sep 05 18:28 |
| sebsebseb | I can understand tech talks about subjects I don't really know much about | Sep 05 18:28 |
| sebsebseb | ,but is it worth going to such an event, where most of the talks will be like that in my case? | Sep 05 18:29 |
| sebsebseb | no I don't think so | Sep 05 18:29 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: seen the SystemD guy do a talk at FOSDEM to this year there's a video fo that one | Sep 05 18:30 |
| sebsebseb | I don'tk now much about SystemD, but was able to follow | Sep 05 18:30 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: hopefuly can at least get some more Linux users next year :) | Sep 05 18:31 |
| cubezzz | it's interesting to look at early Unix as well | Sep 05 18:31 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: going to help organise an install fest with some people from the LUG :) | Sep 05 18:31 |
| sebsebseb | yeah early Unix or BSD or Solaria etc | Sep 05 18:32 |
| sebsebseb | I relaly don't know much about that either | Sep 05 18:32 |
| sebsebseb | Solaris above | Sep 05 18:32 |
| iophk | Illumos is where the developers moved to from Solaris. | Sep 05 18:32 |
| sebsebseb | I do know that Solaria died | Sep 05 18:32 |
| sebsebseb | and yeah Illumoos or whatever yeah | Sep 05 18:32 |
| iophk | If I recall correctly nearly all joined ip. | Sep 05 18:32 |
| iophk | *up | Sep 05 18:32 |
| iophk | Will you focus on Mageia? | Sep 05 18:33 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: you were saying about overload if not really knowing the subject, bingo | Sep 05 18:33 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: and maybe that's just it, we got to accept who we are | Sep 05 18:33 |
| sebsebseb | what we know and don'tk now etc about tech and stuff in general | Sep 05 18:33 |
| sebsebseb | and people area ll diffenret | Sep 05 18:33 |
| sebsebseb | diffenret up bringings, educations, places that live in etc | Sep 05 18:33 |
| cubezzz | that's why I think Unix v7 is a good starting point to learn | Sep 05 18:34 |
| sebsebseb | I am not for example the guy who lives in Edinbrugh where the event is happening | Sep 05 18:34 |
| sebsebseb | who puts SystemD into our distro | Sep 05 18:34 |
| cubezzz | it's a lot simpler | Sep 05 18:34 |
| sebsebseb | and Pulseaudio and what not, and contributes upstream to them and such | Sep 05 18:34 |
| sebsebseb | he's really looking forward to Linuxcon | Sep 05 18:34 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: focus on Magiea for the installfest you mean? | Sep 05 18:34 |
| iophk | Yes. | Sep 05 18:34 |
| sebsebseb | of course :), however it's going to be a more than one distro installfest | Sep 05 18:35 |
| sebsebseb | and aimed at the general public | Sep 05 18:35 |
| sebsebseb | not so technical avearge people, with old XP installs etc | Sep 05 18:35 |
| sebsebseb | and probably done in March, so a bit before the XP end of life | Sep 05 18:35 |
| sebsebseb | unless they extend again, XP and OFFICE 2003 end of life | Sep 05 18:35 |
| iophk | XCFE might be popular with recovering XP users. | Sep 05 18:35 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: oh what I want is a few demonstraiton computers, so can show distros' and de's and such | Sep 05 18:35 |
| sebsebseb | and talk about it etc | Sep 05 18:36 |
| sebsebseb | and then install stuff with people if they want it :) | Sep 05 18:36 |
| iophk | Mint is good if you clean mono off of it. | Sep 05 18:36 |
| sebsebseb | thing is at the moment, we are still trying to sort out a venue and any fudning for the install fest as well | Sep 05 18:36 |
| sebsebseb | very early planning | Sep 05 18:36 |
| cubezzz | I'm working on something I call the 'foss matrix' | Sep 05 18:36 |
| iophk | Vegas? | Sep 05 18:36 |
| sebsebseb | looked at a potential venue on Monday, but to small | Sep 05 18:36 |
| cubezzz | it may be of some interest: | Sep 05 18:36 |
| sebsebseb | ,but as a last resort possbily | Sep 05 18:36 |
| cubezzz | http://www.maxhost.org/other/foss-matrix.txt | Sep 05 18:36 |
| sebsebseb | got a meeting in person coming up with them. and emailed a potential venue and no reply, phoned ah otel, but no reply hmm | Sep 05 18:37 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: Vegas is uhmm quite far from here for our install fest :d | Sep 05 18:37 |
| sebsebseb | there's the atlatnic in between in fact | Sep 05 18:37 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: I think distrowse we will probably do. Ubuntu 13.10. Mint version based on it or maybe hte Debian or have that as well hmm? | Sep 05 18:38 |
| sebsebseb | Mageia 4 :) | Sep 05 18:38 |
| iophk | 13.10 is not quite ready yet. | Sep 05 18:38 |
| sebsebseb | and there's a guy who would like to be installing Open Suse from our LUG, so we will have that to | Sep 05 18:38 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: yes neither is Mageia 4 | Sep 05 18:38 |
| sebsebseb | ,but I said it would probably be in March 2014 didn't I? | Sep 05 18:38 |
| iophk | Having a 'preview-edition' might appeal to some people | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | no these will be final versions | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | we will be installing | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | could get a previoew of Ubuntu 14.04 LTS maybe though | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | if that's what you mean ? | Sep 05 18:39 |
| iophk | cubezzz: the matrix could point to mariadb or postgresql, neither are Oracle | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | may need some Puppy Linux etc, just in case that's the only way they can have Linux | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | on that computer | Sep 05 18:39 |
| cubezzz | iophk, sure, lots of stuff can be added | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | ,but to not noramlly install those distros obviosuly :) | Sep 05 18:39 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: cubezzz then we are going to have a debate about if going to only do single boots, or usualy | Sep 05 18:40 |
| sebsebseb | with a few dual boots maybe | Sep 05 18:40 |
| sebsebseb | it seems going with only a single boot makes things easier or may do, so don't have to mess aruond with WIndows | Sep 05 18:40 |
| iophk | warn people to back up first, no guarantees | Sep 05 18:40 |
| sebsebseb | on the other hand keeping Windows around in certian cases can be quite useful | Sep 05 18:40 |
| iophk | Single boot is definitely better because Windows problems manage to expand to consume all available time. | Sep 05 18:40 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: yep and there's that to, will do the whole need to back up data first, we can't guarantee a success, and some forms etc to fill in to do with risks etc | Sep 05 18:41 |
| sebsebseb | fill in and sign | Sep 05 18:41 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: in most cses can remove XP :) | Sep 05 18:41 |
| sebsebseb | I think and they will be alright | Sep 05 18:41 |
| sebsebseb | in some cases they ioght really need XP on that computer still for that computer | Sep 05 18:41 |
| iophk | Will you have a display area showcasing the default distros that are available? | Sep 05 18:41 |
| sebsebseb | idea is to target XP installs, but might get Vista's in there to or WIndows 7, we aren't really on the marketing stage yet | Sep 05 18:41 |
| sebsebseb | yes that's what I said, I want a show area as well | Sep 05 18:42 |
| iophk | People could then peruse the tables, try a few casually, and pick one for installation. | Sep 05 18:42 |
| sebsebseb | showing the kind of distros availabe, and letting htem play wtih de's and such if htey want | Sep 05 18:42 |
| sebsebseb | yep exactly | Sep 05 18:42 |
| sebsebseb | and get a load of frebies to give out and such, USB's live cd's, stickers | Sep 05 18:42 |
| sebsebseb | Magiea stuff, Ubuntu, stuff, I guess Open Suse to etc | Sep 05 18:43 |
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| iophk | Suse was still pushing M$ last I checked. | Sep 05 18:43 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: Open Suse is around at all the other events I have been at | Sep 05 18:43 |
| sebsebseb | so the next one hat will be next month | Sep 05 18:43 |
| sebsebseb | I am going to go to the OPen Suse stand, and ask about how I could get stuff for our install fest :) | Sep 05 18:43 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: Open Suse is like Fedora though | Sep 05 18:44 |
| sebsebseb | Open Suse also has that commerical look which could help win people ov er to Linux etc :) | Sep 05 18:44 |
| sebsebseb | I mean like the CD's, and so on | Sep 05 18:44 |
| sebsebseb | at the two events I went to with my older brother who isn't that technical for example, Open Suse lured him in the stand there etc | Sep 05 18:44 |
| iophk | KDE can be overwhelming because to enjoy it, you have to customize it and it takes time to learn what and how. | Sep 05 18:44 |
| sebsebseb | I think since the commerical look | Sep 05 18:44 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: inded KDE can be all geeky | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| sebsebseb | ,but Magiea sets it up well by default :) | Sep 05 18:45 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: for a Windows like look, KDE is good in most distros | Sep 05 18:45 |
| sebsebseb | by default | Sep 05 18:45 |
| sebsebseb | that is | Sep 05 18:45 |
| iophk | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunwah_Linux | Sep 05 18:45 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | en.wikipedia.org | Sunwah Linux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/fe2yv ] | Sep 05 18:45 |
| iophk | If you really want the Windows look | Sep 05 18:46 |
| sebsebseb | I wonder if can get fudning form the main UK LUG organsation or something | Sep 05 18:46 |
| sebsebseb | since otherwise hmm | Sep 05 18:46 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: for example it seems may be able to get funding from something, but hten something about how the event would have to be aimed at poor people hmm | Sep 05 18:46 |
| iophk | Does the UK fund computer security work? Getting Windows off the net ought to count as security. | Sep 05 18:46 |
| sebsebseb | no the UK sucks when it comes to anything computers | Sep 05 18:46 |
| sebsebseb | UK is way behind, and goverment doesn't seem to know much about it in general either technology | Sep 05 18:47 |
| sebsebseb | and now days they think cesnoring the web is a good idea to, with more websites to be blocked by default on loads of ISP's it seems etc | Sep 05 18:47 |
| sebsebseb | next year | Sep 05 18:47 |
| iophk | If the XP machines are allowed to persist they will be unpatched in a year. | Sep 05 18:47 |
| iophk | Not that patched Windows is much safer. | Sep 05 18:48 |
| sebsebseb | April 8th 2014 | Sep 05 18:48 |
| cubezzz | I made a short video of Unix v7 if you'd like to see what Unix was like in the late 1970s: | Sep 05 18:48 |
| cubezzz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH3KwLjA8ME | Sep 05 18:48 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | 2.11BSD Unix on PDP-11/73 - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fe2zr ] | Sep 05 18:48 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: WIndows is much safer what? | Sep 05 18:48 |
| cubezzz | oops :) | Sep 05 18:48 |
| cubezzz | wrong video | Sep 05 18:48 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: if Micrsofot leave millions of XP computers out there without any updates at all from them, well more will become part of botnets etc | Sep 05 18:48 |
| cubezzz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vERIL4JpFPU | Sep 05 18:48 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.youtube.com | Unix version 7 Running on PDP-11/45 via simh - YouTube [ http://ur1.ca/fe301 ] | Sep 05 18:48 |
| iophk | WIndows is unsafe. Unpatched windoes is even worse. | Sep 05 18:48 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: when Micrsooft drop support Xfor XP completly | Sep 05 18:48 |
| sebsebseb | cyber criminals are likely t o target it even more than they do today | Sep 05 18:49 |
| cubezzz | iophk, haven't used it in the last 10 years :) | Sep 05 18:49 |
| iophk | Yes, more botnets than we already have will be the result of any remaining XP | Sep 05 18:49 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: of course they might extend that support again | Sep 05 18:49 |
| sebsebseb | WIndows 8 hasn't really been that big of a success so far after all | Sep 05 18:49 |
| sebsebseb | apparnatly it's got more installs than Vista now though | Sep 05 18:49 |
| sebsebseb | or has sold more than Vista whatever apaprnatly | Sep 05 18:49 |
| iophk | Vista8 is failing, big, but I don't have the numbers handy. | Sep 05 18:49 |
| iophk | THey might be faced with an extension of XP yet again. | Sep 05 18:49 |
| sebsebseb | yep indeed | Sep 05 18:50 |
| cubezzz | is windows 8 helping Linux adoption do you think? | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | ,but either ways till good to have this install fest in March :) | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: to some extent probably | Sep 05 18:50 |
| iophk | Another market to consider would be former XP users that got roped into Vista8 or Vista7 or Vista and regret the move. | Sep 05 18:50 |
| iophk | Linux with XFCE could be a way out. | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | well yes indeed | Sep 05 18:50 |
| iophk | LXDE too | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | it's just if we got Wndows 8 machines | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | then got to mess around with UEFI secure boot | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | unless removing Windows I guess :d | Sep 05 18:50 |
| sebsebseb | then just disable it in the bios or whatever, and whatever? or however it works | Sep 05 18:50 |
| iophk | UEFI is one reason for an install fest. | Sep 05 18:51 |
| iophk | It needs professional care. | Sep 05 18:51 |
| sebsebseb | UEFI need professional care ? | Sep 05 18:51 |
| iophk | Home users are going to be scared away by the barriers it places in front of a common linux installation | Sep 05 18:51 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: we need more volunteers to ideally, only five of us so far hmm | Sep 05 18:51 |
| sebsebseb | and that was including myself | Sep 05 18:51 |
| sebsebseb | yes indeed and maybe that was part of the idea, scare them | Sep 05 18:52 |
| sebsebseb | you got to disable that "secure feature" to install that other thing | Sep 05 18:52 |
| sebsebseb | security feature | Sep 05 18:53 |
| cubezzz | I haven't come across secure boot yet | Sep 05 18:53 |
| iophk | Maybe it will catch on that new computers have to be 'fixed' before use, meaning that restricted boot disabled and Linux installed. | Sep 05 18:53 |
| iophk | Seriously, this is why OEMs have been so important. | Sep 05 18:54 |
| iophk | Most people only use the web browser and maybe a photo album any more. | Sep 05 18:54 |
| iophk | And that is done better on Linux | Sep 05 18:54 |
| sebsebseb | yep | Sep 05 18:55 |
| sebsebseb | basics are better done on a LInux distro now :) | Sep 05 18:55 |
| iophk | Some do music, too, but there's Clementine | Sep 05 18:55 |
| sebsebseb | and OEM's have been a major part of the vender lock in | Sep 05 18:55 |
| sebsebseb | quite a few distros and de's etc showing in demonstration | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | might confuse some people | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | then again I guess not? | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | they can ask us | Sep 05 18:56 |
| iophk | Yes, and I wonder how Mark SHuttleworth has done on his goal of 5% | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | and in general | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | go to a normal shop for example a food shop | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | and load sof choice | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | it's just computers, where the choice is more hidden | Sep 05 18:56 |
| iophk | Having the showcase tables with demo desktop environments will help. | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | ,but in general there is choice for lots of stuff | Sep 05 18:56 |
| iophk | Most have never seen a choice before. | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | yes that's the idea show case desktop envrionmetns and distros | Sep 05 18:56 |
| sebsebseb | and we can install any of those options | Sep 05 18:57 |
| sebsebseb | it's all LInux :D | Sep 05 18:57 |
| sebsebseb | let's see if Shuttleworth/Caonical is right about Unity as well :d | Sep 05 18:57 |
| sebsebseb | let's see if non technical people acstauly like Unity or not | Sep 05 18:57 |
| iophk | show five but pick two or three to promote | Sep 05 18:57 |
| iophk | Unity pushed me away. | Sep 05 18:57 |
| sebsebseb | yeah we have to discuss all this at the meeting, what to have on the demonstration computers etc | Sep 05 18:58 |
| iophk | The Dash was cool until I figured out it was a clumpy slow version of bash completion | Sep 05 18:58 |
| sebsebseb | ,but | Sep 05 18:58 |
| sebsebseb | ok sure, but UNity is aimed at non technical people | Sep 05 18:58 |
| sebsebseb | show some distros and de's and let people switch between maybe even ? explain how? | Sep 05 18:58 |
| sebsebseb | let them realy try this stuff | Sep 05 18:58 |
| sebsebseb | not just see it | Sep 05 18:58 |
| iophk | You could present it as an alacarte menu. DE from column A, browser from column B, music from column C, and so on. | Sep 05 18:59 |
| sebsebseb | oh what do you mean? | Sep 05 18:59 |
| iophk | decades ago some restaurants used to have menus like that. Apetizer, Soup, Entre, Dessert. | Sep 05 19:00 |
| iophk | Maybe some still do. | Sep 05 19:00 |
| sebsebseb | I was thinkinmg more browsers and graphics programs and what not already installed | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | let people see and play | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | show distros, but distros could be isntaleld with a few de's to | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | and they can switch betgween de's or something ? | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | or could have say an area for KDE, GNOME, other de's etc | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: in a way distros confusse except for Ubuntu | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu being the only Unity distro | Sep 05 19:01 |
| iophk | I'd stick with only one or two DE's to choose from. | Sep 05 19:01 |
| sebsebseb | well there's no point having Ubuntu unless Unity is shown | Sep 05 19:02 |
| sebsebseb | no point using Ubuntu now really unless going to use Unity | Sep 05 19:02 |
| iophk | there's Xubuntu | Sep 05 19:02 |
| sebsebseb | nope not showing Xubuntu | Sep 05 19:02 |
| sebsebseb | can show XFCE in well Magiea :) very nice implementaiton | Sep 05 19:02 |
| iophk | any XFCE anywhere? | Sep 05 19:02 |
| sebsebseb | Open sUSE ETC | Sep 05 19:02 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: what I perosnaly do when showing Magiea | Sep 05 19:02 |
| sebsebseb | on my net book | Sep 05 19:03 |
| iophk | ok | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | is I have a few de's installed and I switch between etc :) | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | show them the distro with diffenret de's and the contorl centre and such whilst at it | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | I think that's probably the way to go | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: it's not like WIndows, where basically stuck with one interface | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | instead got multiple | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | in the case of Ubuntu we should only show Unity I think though! | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | and nothing else | Sep 05 19:03 |
| iophk | what would be really cool, but would not fit, would be to have 5 tricked out KDE stations each with as different appearance and behavior as possible. | Sep 05 19:03 |
| sebsebseb | could confuse people, and have a few distros running KDE, then go which one did you like? | Sep 05 19:04 |
| iophk | Often when I've shown linux distros to people, the hardest sell has been the customization. | Sep 05 19:04 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: also Mint is quite pointless now really | Sep 05 19:04 |
| sebsebseb | unless going to have codecs by default | Sep 05 19:04 |
| sebsebseb | I mean Cinnamon and Mate is in Mageia 4 development now :) | Sep 05 19:04 |
| sebsebseb | what's the point running MInt then really? and Ubuntu can have htem installed to quite easilly | Sep 05 19:04 |
| iophk | Back 10 − 20 years ago any self respecting IT user went to the greatest lengths possible to customize their desktop. | Sep 05 19:04 |
| iophk | Customization was a status symbol. | Sep 05 19:05 |
| sebsebseb | I think Ubuntu only show Unity | Sep 05 19:05 |
| sebsebseb | to keep that simple | Sep 05 19:05 |
| iophk | Now people are like, "but I want defaults, what ever they are" | Sep 05 19:05 |
| sebsebseb | that's something else | Sep 05 19:05 |
| sebsebseb | we show only the default de set up :) | Sep 05 19:05 |
| iophk | brb | Sep 05 19:05 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: maybe we should just have Ubuntu and Mint there instead | Sep 05 19:06 |
| sebsebseb | ,because people may iknow of that etc | Sep 05 19:06 |
| sebsebseb | and aim to install Mageia mainly and Open Suse | Sep 05 19:06 |
| sebsebseb | I would be quite happy with that :) | Sep 05 19:06 |
| sebsebseb | or maybe Ubuntu should have KUbuntu and XUbuntu and such installed to | Sep 05 19:07 |
| sebsebseb | then in the case of Ubuntu we show the control centre as a selling thing | Sep 05 19:07 |
| sebsebseb | uh the software centre I meant for htat one, for Magiea it's the control centre as wel, for OPen Suse it's wahtever, but basically make it clear these are diffenret oS's, but htey can all run pretty much the same stuff | Sep 05 19:07 |
| sebsebseb | iophk: and I guess may be good to get some Fedora stuff and such to maybe, even if not installing that | Sep 05 19:09 |
| sebsebseb | and Debain or whatever | Sep 05 19:09 |
| sebsebseb | hmm | Sep 05 19:09 |
| sebsebseb | not sure quite | Sep 05 19:09 |
| sebsebseb | I think we need enough volunteers, and a good demonstration/trying area, and yeah :) | Sep 05 19:09 |
| sebsebseb | and marketting is importnat to, and a suitable veneu | Sep 05 19:10 |
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| iophk | I'm still not happy about Suse promoting M$ patents | Sep 05 19:30 |
| iophk | Mint is ok if it is cleaned, some version have mono still. | Sep 05 19:31 |
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| MinceR | 193602 <@iophk> XCFE might be popular with recovering XP users. | Sep 05 19:34 |
| MinceR | also for recovering KDE3 and Gnome1/2 users ;) | Sep 05 19:35 |
| iophk | Yes, both were quite a shock for some people | Sep 05 19:35 |
| iophk | I was rather unhappy about KDE4 as well as the way it was pushed out as alpha | Sep 05 19:35 |
| iophk | Some of the bugs have not gotten better. | Sep 05 19:35 |
| iophk | time-motion is a lot less efficient with KDE4 as far as I can tell. | Sep 05 19:36 |
| iophk | I no longer have it on any machines | Sep 05 19:36 |
| iophk | In some ways, elegance peaked with fvwm | Sep 05 19:36 |
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| iophk | It's still the best for moving around a whole virtual desktop and grouping windows by task | Sep 05 19:37 |
| MinceR | yeah, fvwm is very powerful | Sep 05 19:44 |
| cubezzz | I still use KDE 3.5 :) | Sep 05 19:47 |
| cubezzz | and KDE 3.4.2 too | Sep 05 19:47 |
| cubezzz | not to mention some KDE 1.0 programs that don't exist in newer KDE | Sep 05 19:49 |
| cubezzz | stuff gets orphaned, but it can be grand-fathered back in | Sep 05 19:51 |
| iophk | http://www.trinitydesktop.org/ | Sep 05 19:51 |
| TechrightsBot-tr | www.trinitydesktop.org | Trinity Desktop Environment | Sep 05 19:51 |
| iophk | One of the advantages of Gnu/Linux was that it was supposed to be stable. In theory you were supposed to be able to run the same DE and apps for years. | Sep 05 19:55 |
| iophk | In practice, there has been less patching and more development so that users end up chasing versions. I'm not sure that's all bad, but it is sure not all good either. | Sep 05 19:56 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 05 19:56 |
| MinceR | some distros help a lot, though | Sep 05 19:57 |
| iophk | AFAIK Debian makes the most effort in that regard, | Sep 05 19:57 |
| iophk | they deserve a lot of praise. | Sep 05 19:57 |
| MinceR | and some of its forks, including crunchbang | Sep 05 19:57 |
| cubezzz | as long as you have source code, you can back-port | Sep 05 19:57 |
| iophk | That and they provide an excellent and essential foundation for derivative distros. | Sep 05 19:57 |
| iophk | #!, Mint, Ubuntu, Knoppix, etc. | Sep 05 19:58 |
| cubezzz | 2.11BSD went on and on and it might still get patched | Sep 05 19:58 |
| cubezzz | there's a few PDP-11's out there :) | Sep 05 19:58 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 05 19:58 |
| iophk | I saw a PDP-11 for sale cheap many years ago. | Sep 05 19:58 |
| iophk | It was big | Sep 05 19:58 |
| cubezzz | I'd get a DEC Pro 380 if I was to get into that | Sep 05 20:00 |
| cubezzz | at least that fits on a desktop | Sep 05 20:00 |
| iophk | The thing is if you hang on to a working unit long enough it becomes valuable | Sep 05 20:01 |
| iophk | But until then it is taking up space and getting in the way. | Sep 05 20:01 |
| cubezzz | I think the 380 isn't super-old, maybe about 1984 era | Sep 05 20:01 |
| iophk | And the wait might be decades before it is worth anything. | Sep 05 20:01 |
| cubezzz | but if you want to run old Unix, it's one way | Sep 05 20:01 |
| cubezzz | working 70s era stuff is getting pricey | Sep 05 20:02 |
| cubezzz | well, Unix old schoolers like the PDP-11/45's | Sep 05 20:02 |
| iophk | I had a working Apple IIe years ago but gave it away. | Sep 05 20:03 |
| cubezzz | it ran Unix v7 so it's important | Sep 05 20:03 |
| iophk | Why v7? | Sep 05 20:03 |
| cubezzz | it's the last common ancestor of Unix | Sep 05 20:03 |
| cubezzz | everything else derived from v7 | Sep 05 20:04 |
| cubezzz | well, at least Unix-wise | Sep 05 20:04 |
| iophk | Cool. The primordial OS | Sep 05 20:04 |
| cubezzz | in 1979 Unix v7 with PDP-11/45 had an MMU and multitasking for relatively cheap | Sep 05 20:04 |
| iophk | The end of the 70's and all of the 80's brought an actual improvement in productivity due to computers. | Sep 05 20:08 |
| iophk | The nightmare stories I hear from Windows users, especially in die-hard M$ shops, tells me that productivity has been nosediving from recent 'computers' | Sep 05 20:08 |
| cubezzz | well memory bandwidth and bus speeds of the 11's wasn't great | Sep 05 20:09 |
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| cubezzz | that's why DEC bombed out and the intel boxes took over | Sep 05 20:09 |
| cubezzz | it was good in the 70s but crap in the 80s | Sep 05 20:09 |
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| cubezzz | people should be aware there were desktops in the 60's | Sep 05 20:10 |
| iophk | CP/M with Wordstar was common, but Visicalc on AppleDOS was, too. I guess I'm thinking more for the non-technical users. | Sep 05 20:10 |
| cubezzz | the IBM 1130 was an affordable machine, used by some high schools in the late 60's | Sep 05 20:10 |
| iophk | There were still paper teletypes in the mid-70's | Sep 05 20:11 |
| cubezzz | well, also printing terminals | Sep 05 20:12 |
| cubezzz | like IBM 2741's | Sep 05 20:12 |
| cubezzz | before my era, but interesting :) | Sep 05 20:12 |
| cubezzz | you could get an IBM 2250 for the 1130 for graphics | Sep 05 20:16 |
| cubezzz | very expensive | Sep 05 20:16 |
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| MinceR | gn | Sep 05 22:32 |
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