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DaemonFCI was at the funeral home all day today for my aunt's viewing.Sep 05 04:41
DaemonFCHundreds of people showed up.Sep 05 04:41
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MinceRgeekingsSep 05 09:07
iophk 05 10:26 | Vint Cerf Wants Public Outcry Over ISPs' failure To Introduce IPv6  [ ]Sep 05 10:26
iophkperhaps it is the increased security that IPv6 would bring which is preventing it from being adoptedSep 05 10:27
iophkmany backdoors and snooping opportunities would go away.Sep 05 10:27
iophkThat and Windows problemsSep 05 10:30
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iophk 05 14:03 | Mailpile - taking e-mail back | Indiegogo  [ ]Sep 05 14:03
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MisterEo/ JimmyCarter  :)Sep 05 14:36
MisterE 05 14:36
JimmyCarter 05 14:36 | Hundreds of Pages of NSA Spying Documents to be Released As Result of EFF Lawsuit | Electronic Frontier Foundation  [ ]Sep 05 14:36 | Imperium, RIP –  [ ]Sep 05 14:36
MisterEhehSep 05 14:36
MisterEtalk about timingSep 05 14:36
MisterEJimmyCarter: you think congress has the balls to do it?Sep 05 14:38
MisterEso far they look like a bunch of pushoversSep 05 14:38
MisterEvery disappointed it made it through committee Sep 05 14:38
JimmyCarterfinal lines in articles says it allSep 05 14:39
JimmyCarterBut however the current debate specifically unfolds, the good news is that the world greatest deliberative body is now back in charge of American foreign policy. By long standing historical demonstration, the US Congress specializes in paralysis, indecision and dysfunction. In the end, that is how the American warfare state will be finally brought to heel and why the American Imperium will come to an end—at last.Sep 05 14:39
MisterEyea there is some progressSep 05 14:40
msb_ 05 15:37 | » Exclusive: High Level Source Confirms Secret US Nuclear Warhead Transfer Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!  [ ]Sep 05 15:37
msb_From 2007: 05 15:39 | Missing Nukes: Treason of the Highest Order | Global Research  [ ]Sep 05 15:39
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MisterEI wish alex jones would reign it in a littleSep 05 15:46
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sebsebseb Sep 05 16:43
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msb_MisterE: I think Jones does just fine, except that he's a right-winger on economics, and doesn't realize that unregulated capitalism leads to control of the government and media by the ultra-wealthy, and thus to fascism.  And I think you mean "rein".Sep 05 17:10
msb_Interesting that, perhaps the best site for international events/politics was down for hours this morning.Sep 05 17:11
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cubezzzAlex Jones interviewed Stallman a while backSep 05 18:14
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sebsebsebcubezzz: uhmm schestowitz interviewsd Stallman on techbytesSep 05 18:14
sebsebseband cut it up into really short episodes uhSep 05 18:14
sebsebsebwith the  getting old theme tune etc uhSep 05 18:14
sebsebsebcubezzz: I have a oppertunity to see Linus Torvalds do a talk next month, but  I think it's still a noSep 05 18:15
sebsebsebgoing to that eventSep 05 18:15
sebsebsebcubezzz: plus knowing me I  may even miss that talk anyway, since not much of a early morning person etcSep 05 18:15
sebsebsebI mean if I were to goSep 05 18:15
cubezzzwell there's probably will be a video I imagineSep 05 18:15
sebsebsebyep exactly there will probably be a vbideoSep 05 18:15
cubezzzs/there's/there will/Sep 05 18:16
sebsebsebcubezzz: plus it's only 45 minuetes with  whoever elseSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebnot like he would want to chat to me probablySep 05 18:16
sebsebsebetcSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebprobably woudn't get a chance to chat to him inf act or not much of one if soSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebcubezzz: there's one event I am going to for sure :)Sep 05 18:16
sebsebseb,but then this other one that follows, I am thinkking noSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebit's to technical for me most of the talks reallySep 05 18:16
sebsebsebetcSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebso probably not really worth itSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebin my caseSep 05 18:16
sebsebsebcubezzz: am I an IT Pro? Sep 05 18:17
sebsebsebnopeSep 05 18:17
sebsebsebdo I do stuff with the cloud etc, nopeSep 05 18:17
cubezzzThompson and Kernighan would be interesting to talk to tooSep 05 18:17
cubezzzKernighan was Canadian Sep 05 18:17
sebsebsebwho is that?Sep 05 18:17
sebsebsebcubezzz: this event would be quite interesting I am sure, if I was more technical, but that is not the caseSep 05 18:17
sebsebseb 05 18:18 | Schedule | Linux Conferences and Linux Events | The Linux Foundation  [ ]Sep 05 18:18
sebsebsebbeen to similar things beforeSep 05 18:18
sebsebseb,but FOSDEM is differnet and awesome :)Sep 05 18:18
cubezzzUnix pioneer, inventor of C languageSep 05 18:18
sebsebseb 05 18:18
sebsebsebcubezzz: that to, do I program? nopeSep 05 18:18
sebsebsebcubezzz: Monday  morning looks quite bad to meSep 05 18:18
sebsebseba Twitter talk etcSep 05 18:18
sebsebsebuh I don't like Twitter,  may be interesting how they run the backendSep 05 18:18
sebsebseb,but whatever it's TwitterSep 05 18:18
cubezzzwell I should really say Dennis Ritchie invented CSep 05 18:19
sebsebsebmay get another oppertunity to see Linus do a talk anwyay depends I guessSep 05 18:19
cubezzzbut K&R the K was KernighanSep 05 18:19
sebsebseband I have seen Richard STallman earlier this yearSep 05 18:19
sebsebsebeven got to talk to him afterwoulds, but not really how I wanted, buty eahSep 05 18:19
cubezzzthat's coolSep 05 18:20
sebsebsebcubezzz: look at the scheduled here though, what do you think? 05 18:20
sebsebseb 05 18:20
cubezzzyeah, lots of interesting stuff thereSep 05 18:22
sebsebsebcubezzz: interesting stuff such as?Sep 05 18:22
sebsebsebcubezzz: what I am saying is I am probably not going to this event!Sep 05 18:23
sebsebsebeven though I culd book it Sep 05 18:23
sebsebsebcubezzz: ,because most of the talks are going to be to technical for me reallySep 05 18:23
sebsebsebI have seen quite technical talks at FOSDEM for exampleSep 05 18:23
cubezzzwell Wayland/X Compositor...Sep 05 18:23
sebsebsebalso I don't care enough about TwiterSep 05 18:23
sebsebsebor the cloudSep 05 18:23
sebsebsebyeah there are a few talks in there that would be interesting thoughSep 05 18:24
cubezzzrecent advances in Linux tracing...Sep 05 18:24
sebsebseband some that are less technical, but the less techhical ones don't really seem worth it htoughSep 05 18:24
sebsebsebcubezzz: what's Linux tracing ?Sep 05 18:24
sebsebseband of course there would be at alk about Wayland now :d  distros are going wayland next year,  etcSep 05 18:24
cubezzza method of debuggingSep 05 18:24
sebsebsebwith the exception of Ub untu since MirSep 05 18:24
sebsebsebdebugging what the kernel ?Sep 05 18:24
cubezzze.g. tracing a programSep 05 18:25
cubezzzany programSep 05 18:25
sebsebsebwhat's tracing ?Sep 05 18:25
cubezzzwell your following the precise execution path of a program, seeing what it doesSep 05 18:26
cubezzzpart of fixing bugsSep 05 18:26
cubezzzchecking performanceSep 05 18:26
sebsebseboh right ok I seeSep 05 18:27
sebsebseb,but as I said earlier I am not a programmerSep 05 18:27
cubezzzrighto :)Sep 05 18:27
sebsebsebso probalby woudn't be much use for me at the momen such a talkSep 05 18:27
sebsebsebcubezzz: to be honest being into tech  is ak ind of curse at timesSep 05 18:27
sebsebsebsince "average" people don't careSep 05 18:28
sebsebsebcan make it hard to make freinds at times etcSep 05 18:28
sebsebsebdependsSep 05 18:28
sebsebsebor  in the past has been like that dependsSep 05 18:28
sebsebsebcubezzz: plus not technical enough to work with it really or  most jobs in that, so uhSep 05 18:28
cubezzzwell, it can be a bit of overload if you're not familiar with the subjectSep 05 18:28
sebsebsebI can understand tech talks about subjects I don't really know much aboutSep 05 18:28
sebsebseb,but is it worth going to such an event,  where most of the talks will be like that in my case?Sep 05 18:29
sebsebsebno I don't think soSep 05 18:29
sebsebsebcubezzz: seen the SystemD guy do a talk at FOSDEM to this year there's a video fo that oneSep 05 18:30
sebsebsebI don'tk now much about SystemD, but was able to followSep 05 18:30
sebsebsebcubezzz: hopefuly can at least get some more Linux users next year :)Sep 05 18:31
cubezzzit's interesting to look at early Unix as wellSep 05 18:31
sebsebsebcubezzz: going to help organise an install fest  with some people from the LUG :)Sep 05 18:31
sebsebsebyeah early Unix  or  BSD or Solaria etcSep 05 18:32
sebsebsebI relaly don't know much about that eitherSep 05 18:32
sebsebsebSolaris aboveSep 05 18:32
iophkIllumos is where the developers moved to from Solaris.Sep 05 18:32
sebsebsebI do know that Solaria diedSep 05 18:32
sebsebseband yeah Illumoos or whatever yeahSep 05 18:32
iophkIf I recall correctly nearly all joined ip.Sep 05 18:32
iophk*upSep 05 18:32
iophkWill you focus on Mageia?Sep 05 18:33
sebsebsebcubezzz:  you were saying about overload if not really knowing the subject, bingoSep 05 18:33
sebsebsebcubezzz:  and maybe that's just it, we got to accept who we areSep 05 18:33
sebsebsebwhat we know and don'tk now etc about tech and stuff in generalSep 05 18:33
sebsebseband people area ll diffenretSep 05 18:33
sebsebsebdiffenret up bringings,  educations,  places that live in etcSep 05 18:33
cubezzzthat's why I think Unix v7 is a good starting point to learnSep 05 18:34
sebsebsebI am not for example the guy who lives in Edinbrugh where the event is happeningSep 05 18:34
sebsebsebwho  puts  SystemD into our distroSep 05 18:34
cubezzzit's a lot simpler Sep 05 18:34
sebsebseband Pulseaudio and what not, and contributes upstream to them and suchSep 05 18:34
sebsebsebhe's really looking forward to LinuxconSep 05 18:34
sebsebsebiophk: focus on Magiea for the installfest you mean?Sep 05 18:34
iophkYes.Sep 05 18:34
sebsebsebof course :), however  it's going to be a more than one distro installfestSep 05 18:35
sebsebseband aimed at the general publicSep 05 18:35
sebsebsebnot so technical avearge people, with old XP installs etcSep 05 18:35
sebsebseband probably done in March, so a bit before the XP end of lifeSep 05 18:35
sebsebsebunless they extend again, XP and OFFICE 2003  end of lifeSep 05 18:35
iophkXCFE might be popular with recovering XP users.Sep 05 18:35
sebsebsebiophk: oh what I want is a few demonstraiton computers, so can show distros' and de's and suchSep 05 18:35
sebsebseband talk about it etcSep 05 18:36
sebsebseband then  install stuff with people if they want it :)Sep 05 18:36
iophkMint is good if you clean mono off of it.Sep 05 18:36
sebsebsebthing is at the moment, we are still trying to sort out a venue and any fudning for the install fest as wellSep 05 18:36
sebsebsebvery early planningSep 05 18:36
cubezzzI'm working on something I call the 'foss matrix'Sep 05 18:36
iophkVegas?Sep 05 18:36
sebsebseblooked at a potential venue on Monday, but to smallSep 05 18:36
cubezzzit may be of some interest:Sep 05 18:36
sebsebseb,but as a last resort possbilySep 05 18:36
cubezzz 05 18:36
sebsebsebgot a meeting in person coming up with them.  and emailed a potential venue and no reply,  phoned ah otel, but no reply hmmSep 05 18:37
sebsebsebiophk: Vegas is uhmm quite far from here for our install fest :dSep 05 18:37
sebsebsebthere's the atlatnic in between in factSep 05 18:37
sebsebsebiophk: I think distrowse we will probably do.  Ubuntu 13.10.  Mint version based on it or maybe hte Debian or have that as well hmm?Sep 05 18:38
sebsebsebMageia 4 :)Sep 05 18:38
iophk13.10 is not quite ready yet.  Sep 05 18:38
sebsebseband there's a guy who would like to be installing Open Suse from our LUG, so we will have that toSep 05 18:38
sebsebsebiophk: yes neither is Mageia 4Sep 05 18:38
sebsebseb,but I said it would probably be in March 2014 didn't I?Sep 05 18:38
iophkHaving a 'preview-edition' might appeal to some peopleSep 05 18:39
sebsebsebno these will be final versionsSep 05 18:39
sebsebsebwe will be installingSep 05 18:39
sebsebsebcould get a previoew of Ubuntu 14.04  LTS maybe thoughSep 05 18:39
sebsebsebif that's what you mean ?Sep 05 18:39
iophkcubezzz: the matrix could point to mariadb or postgresql, neither are OracleSep 05 18:39
sebsebsebmay need some Puppy Linux etc, just in case that's the only way they can have LinuxSep 05 18:39
sebsebsebon that computerSep 05 18:39
cubezzziophk, sure, lots of stuff can be addedSep 05 18:39
sebsebseb,but to not noramlly install those distros obviosuly :)Sep 05 18:39
sebsebsebiophk: cubezzz then we are going to have a debate about if going to only do  single boots, or  usualySep 05 18:40
sebsebsebwith a few dual boots maybeSep 05 18:40
sebsebsebit seems going with only a single boot makes things easier or may do, so don't have to mess aruond with WIndowsSep 05 18:40
iophkwarn people to back up first, no guaranteesSep 05 18:40
sebsebsebon the other hand keeping Windows around in certian cases can be quite usefulSep 05 18:40
iophkSingle boot is definitely better because Windows problems manage to expand to consume all available time.Sep 05 18:40
sebsebsebiophk: yep and there's that to, will do the whole  need to back up data first,  we can't guarantee a success,  and some forms etc to fill in to do with risks etcSep 05 18:41
sebsebsebfill in and signSep 05 18:41
sebsebsebiophk: in most cses can remove XP :)Sep 05 18:41
sebsebsebI think and they will be alrightSep 05 18:41
sebsebsebin some cases they ioght really need XP on that computer still for that computerSep 05 18:41
iophkWill you have a display area showcasing the default distros that are available?Sep 05 18:41
sebsebsebidea is to target XP installs, but might get Vista's in there to or WIndows 7, we aren't really on the marketing stage yetSep 05 18:41
sebsebsebyes that's what I said,  I want a show area as wellSep 05 18:42
iophkPeople could then peruse the tables, try a few casually, and pick one for installation.Sep 05 18:42
sebsebsebshowing the kind of distros availabe, and letting htem play wtih de's and such if htey wantSep 05 18:42
sebsebsebyep exactlySep 05 18:42
sebsebseband get a load of frebies to give out and such,  USB's live cd's, stickersSep 05 18:42
sebsebsebMagiea stuff, Ubuntu, stuff,  I guess Open Suse to etcSep 05 18:43
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iophkSuse was still pushing M$ last I checked.Sep 05 18:43
sebsebsebiophk: Open Suse is around at all the other events I have been atSep 05 18:43
sebsebsebso the next one hat will be next monthSep 05 18:43
sebsebsebI am going to go to the OPen Suse stand, and ask about how I could get stuff for our install fest :)Sep 05 18:43
sebsebsebiophk: Open Suse is like Fedora thoughSep 05 18:44
sebsebsebOpen Suse also has that commerical look which could help win people ov er to Linux etc :)Sep 05 18:44
sebsebsebI mean like the CD's, and so on Sep 05 18:44
sebsebsebat the two events I went to with my older brother who isn't that technical for example,  Open Suse lured him in the stand there etcSep 05 18:44
iophkKDE can be overwhelming because to enjoy it, you have to customize it and it takes time to learn what and how.Sep 05 18:44
sebsebsebI think since the commerical lookSep 05 18:44
sebsebsebiophk: inded KDE can be all geekySep 05 18:45
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sebsebseb,but Magiea sets  it up well by default :)Sep 05 18:45
sebsebsebiophk: for a Windows like look, KDE is good in most distrosSep 05 18:45
sebsebsebby defaultSep 05 18:45
sebsebsebthat isSep 05 18:45
iophk 05 18:45 | Sunwah Linux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  [ ]Sep 05 18:45
iophkIf you really want the Windows lookSep 05 18:46
sebsebsebI wonder if can get fudning form the main UK LUG organsation or somethingSep 05 18:46
sebsebsebsince otherwise hmmSep 05 18:46
sebsebsebiophk: for example it seems may be able to get funding from something, but hten something about how the event would have to be aimed at poor people hmmSep 05 18:46
iophkDoes the UK fund computer security work?  Getting Windows off the net ought to count as security.Sep 05 18:46
sebsebsebno the UK sucks when it comes to anything computersSep 05 18:46
sebsebsebUK is way behind, and goverment doesn't seem to know much about it in general either technologySep 05 18:47
sebsebseband now days they think cesnoring the web is a good idea to, with more websites to be blocked by default on loads of ISP's it seems etcSep 05 18:47
sebsebsebnext yearSep 05 18:47
iophkIf the XP machines are allowed to persist they will be unpatched in a year.Sep 05 18:47
iophkNot that patched Windows is much safer.Sep 05 18:48
sebsebsebApril 8th 2014Sep 05 18:48
cubezzzI made a short video of Unix v7 if you'd like to see what Unix was like in the late 1970s:Sep 05 18:48
cubezzz 05 18:48 | 2.11BSD Unix on PDP-11/73 - YouTube  [ ]Sep 05 18:48
sebsebsebiophk: WIndows is much safer what?Sep 05 18:48
cubezzzoops :)Sep 05 18:48
cubezzzwrong videoSep 05 18:48
sebsebsebiophk: if  Micrsofot leave millions of  XP computers out there without any updates at all from them, well more will become part of botnets etcSep 05 18:48
cubezzz 05 18:48 | Unix version 7 Running on PDP-11/45 via simh - YouTube  [ ]Sep 05 18:48
iophkWIndows is unsafe.  Unpatched windoes is even worse.Sep 05 18:48
sebsebsebiophk: when Micrsooft drop support Xfor XP completlySep 05 18:48
sebsebsebcyber criminals are likely t o target it even more  than they do todaySep 05 18:49
cubezzziophk, haven't used it in the last 10 years :)Sep 05 18:49
iophkYes, more botnets than we already have will be the result of any remaining XPSep 05 18:49
sebsebsebiophk: of course they might extend that support againSep 05 18:49
sebsebsebWIndows 8 hasn't really been that big of a success so far after allSep 05 18:49
sebsebsebapparnatly it's got more installs than Vista now thoughSep 05 18:49
sebsebsebor has sold more than Vista whatever apaprnatlySep 05 18:49
iophkVista8 is failing, big, but I don't have the numbers handy.  Sep 05 18:49
iophkTHey might be faced with an extension of XP yet again.Sep 05 18:49
sebsebsebyep indeedSep 05 18:50
cubezzzis windows 8 helping Linux adoption do you think?Sep 05 18:50
sebsebseb,but either ways till good to have this install fest in March :)Sep 05 18:50
sebsebsebcubezzz: to some extent probablySep 05 18:50
iophkAnother market to consider would be former XP users that got roped into Vista8 or Vista7 or Vista and regret the move.  Sep 05 18:50
iophkLinux with XFCE could be a way out.  Sep 05 18:50
sebsebsebwell yes indeedSep 05 18:50
iophkLXDE tooSep 05 18:50
sebsebsebit's just  if we got Wndows 8 machinesSep 05 18:50
sebsebsebthen got to mess around with UEFI secure bootSep 05 18:50
sebsebsebunless removing Windows I guess :dSep 05 18:50
sebsebsebthen just disable it in the bios or whatever, and whatever? or however it worksSep 05 18:50
iophkUEFI is one reason for an install fest.Sep 05 18:51
iophkIt needs professional care.Sep 05 18:51
sebsebsebUEFI need professional care ?Sep 05 18:51
iophkHome users are going to be scared away by the barriers it places in front of a common linux installationSep 05 18:51
sebsebsebiophk: we need more volunteers to ideally, only five of us so far hmmSep 05 18:51
sebsebseband that was including myselfSep 05 18:51
sebsebsebyes indeed and maybe that was part of the idea, scare themSep 05 18:52
sebsebsebyou got to disable that "secure  feature" to install that other thingSep 05 18:52
sebsebsebsecurity featureSep 05 18:53
cubezzzI haven't come across secure boot yetSep 05 18:53
iophkMaybe it will catch on that new computers have to be 'fixed' before use, meaning that restricted boot disabled and Linux installed.Sep 05 18:53
iophkSeriously, this is why OEMs have been so important.Sep 05 18:54
iophkMost people only use the web browser and maybe a photo album any more.  Sep 05 18:54
iophkAnd that is done better on LinuxSep 05 18:54
sebsebsebyepSep 05 18:55
sebsebsebbasics are better done on a LInux distro now :)Sep 05 18:55
iophkSome do music, too, but there's ClementineSep 05 18:55
sebsebseband OEM's have been a major part of the vender lock inSep 05 18:55
sebsebsebquite a few distros and de's etc showing in demonstrationSep 05 18:56
sebsebsebmight confuse some peopleSep 05 18:56
sebsebsebthen again I guess not?Sep 05 18:56
sebsebsebthey can ask usSep 05 18:56
iophkYes, and I wonder how Mark SHuttleworth has done on his goal of 5%Sep 05 18:56
sebsebseband in generalSep 05 18:56
sebsebsebgo to a normal shop for example a food shop Sep 05 18:56
sebsebseband load sof choiceSep 05 18:56
sebsebsebit's just computers, where the choice is more hiddenSep 05 18:56
iophkHaving the showcase tables with demo desktop environments will help.Sep 05 18:56
sebsebseb,but in general there is choice for lots of stuffSep 05 18:56
iophkMost have never seen a choice before.Sep 05 18:56
sebsebsebyes that's the idea show case desktop envrionmetns and distrosSep 05 18:56
sebsebseband we can install any of those optionsSep 05 18:57
sebsebsebit's all LInux :DSep 05 18:57
sebsebseblet's see if Shuttleworth/Caonical is right about Unity as well :dSep 05 18:57
sebsebseblet's see if non technical people acstauly like Unity or notSep 05 18:57
iophkshow five but pick two or three to promoteSep 05 18:57
iophkUnity pushed me away.Sep 05 18:57
sebsebsebyeah we have to discuss all this at the meeting,  what to have on the demonstration computers etcSep 05 18:58
iophkThe Dash was cool until I figured out it was a clumpy slow version of bash completionSep 05 18:58
sebsebseb,butSep 05 18:58
sebsebsebok sure, but UNity is aimed at non technical peopleSep 05 18:58
sebsebsebshow some distros and de's  and let people switch between maybe even ?  explain how?Sep 05 18:58
sebsebseblet them realy try this stuffSep 05 18:58
sebsebsebnot just see itSep 05 18:58
iophkYou could present it as an alacarte menu.  DE from column A, browser from column B, music from column C, and so on.Sep 05 18:59
sebsebseboh what do you mean?Sep 05 18:59
iophkdecades ago some restaurants used to have menus like that.  Apetizer, Soup, Entre, Dessert.Sep 05 19:00
iophkMaybe some still do.Sep 05 19:00
sebsebsebI was thinkinmg more browsers and  graphics programs and what not already installedSep 05 19:01
sebsebseblet people see and playSep 05 19:01
sebsebsebshow distros,  but  distros could be isntaleld with a few de's toSep 05 19:01
sebsebseband they can switch betgween de's or something ?Sep 05 19:01
sebsebsebor could have say an area for KDE, GNOME, other de's etcSep 05 19:01
sebsebsebiophk: in a way distros confusse except for UbuntuSep 05 19:01
sebsebsebUbuntu being the only Unity distroSep 05 19:01
iophkI'd stick with only one or two DE's to choose from.  Sep 05 19:01
sebsebsebwell there's no point having Ubuntu unless Unity is shownSep 05 19:02
sebsebsebno point using Ubuntu now really unless  going to use UnitySep 05 19:02
iophkthere's XubuntuSep 05 19:02
sebsebsebnope not showing Xubuntu Sep 05 19:02
sebsebsebcan show XFCE in  well  Magiea :) very nice implementaitonSep 05 19:02
iophkany XFCE anywhere?Sep 05 19:02
sebsebsebOpen sUSE ETCSep 05 19:02
sebsebsebiophk: what I perosnaly do when showing MagieaSep 05 19:02
sebsebsebon my net bookSep 05 19:03
iophkokSep 05 19:03
sebsebsebis I have a few  de's installed and I switch between etc :)Sep 05 19:03
sebsebsebshow them the distro with diffenret de's and the contorl centre and such whilst at itSep 05 19:03
sebsebsebI think that's probably the way to goSep 05 19:03
sebsebsebiophk: it's not like WIndows, where basically stuck with one interfaceSep 05 19:03
sebsebsebinstead got multipleSep 05 19:03
sebsebsebin the case of Ubuntu we should only show Unity I think though!Sep 05 19:03
sebsebseband nothing elseSep 05 19:03
iophkwhat would be really cool, but would not fit, would be to have 5 tricked out KDE stations each with as different appearance and behavior as possible.Sep 05 19:03
sebsebsebcould confuse people, and have a few distros running KDE, then go which one did you like?Sep 05 19:04
iophkOften when I've shown linux distros to people, the hardest sell has been the customization.Sep 05 19:04
sebsebsebiophk: also Mint is quite pointless now reallySep 05 19:04
sebsebsebunless going to have codecs by defaultSep 05 19:04
sebsebsebI mean Cinnamon and Mate is in Mageia 4 development now :)Sep 05 19:04
sebsebsebwhat's the point running  MInt then really?  and Ubuntu can  have htem installed to quite easillySep 05 19:04
iophkBack 10 − 20 years ago any self respecting IT user went to the greatest lengths possible to customize their desktop.Sep 05 19:04
iophkCustomization was a status symbol.Sep 05 19:05
sebsebsebI think Ubuntu only show UnitySep 05 19:05
sebsebsebto keep that simpleSep 05 19:05
iophkNow people are like, "but I want defaults, what ever they are"Sep 05 19:05
sebsebsebthat's something elseSep 05 19:05
sebsebsebwe show only the default de set up :)Sep 05 19:05
iophkbrbSep 05 19:05
sebsebsebiophk: maybe we should just have  Ubuntu and Mint there insteadSep 05 19:06
sebsebseb,because people may iknow of that etcSep 05 19:06
sebsebseband aim to install Mageia mainly and Open SuseSep 05 19:06
sebsebsebI would be  quite happy with that :)Sep 05 19:06
sebsebsebor maybe Ubuntu should have KUbuntu and XUbuntu and such installed toSep 05 19:07
sebsebsebthen in the case of Ubuntu we show the control centre as a selling thingSep 05 19:07
sebsebsebuh the software centre I meant for htat one, for Magiea it's the control centre as wel, for OPen Suse it's wahtever,  but basically make it clear these are diffenret oS's, but htey can all run pretty much the same stuffSep 05 19:07
sebsebsebiophk: and I guess may be good to get some Fedora stuff and such to maybe, even if not installing thatSep 05 19:09
sebsebseband Debain or whateverSep 05 19:09
sebsebsebhmmSep 05 19:09
sebsebsebnot sure quiteSep 05 19:09
sebsebsebI think we need enough volunteers, and a good demonstration/trying area, and   yeah :)Sep 05 19:09
sebsebseband marketting is importnat to, and a suitable veneuSep 05 19:10
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iophkI'm still not happy about Suse promoting M$ patentsSep 05 19:30
iophkMint is ok if it is cleaned, some version have mono still.Sep 05 19:31
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MinceR193602 <@iophk> XCFE might be popular with recovering XP users.Sep 05 19:34
MinceRalso for recovering KDE3 and Gnome1/2 users ;)Sep 05 19:35
iophkYes, both were quite a shock for some peopleSep 05 19:35
iophkI was rather unhappy about KDE4 as well as the way it was pushed out as alphaSep 05 19:35
iophkSome of the bugs have not gotten better.Sep 05 19:35
iophktime-motion is a lot less efficient with KDE4 as far as I can tell.Sep 05 19:36
iophkI no longer have it on any machinesSep 05 19:36
iophkIn some ways, elegance peaked with fvwmSep 05 19:36
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iophkIt's still the best for moving around a whole virtual desktop and grouping windows by taskSep 05 19:37
MinceRyeah, fvwm is very powerfulSep 05 19:44
cubezzzI still use KDE 3.5 :)Sep 05 19:47
cubezzzand KDE 3.4.2 tooSep 05 19:47
cubezzznot to mention some KDE 1.0 programs that don't exist in newer KDESep 05 19:49
cubezzzstuff gets orphaned, but it can be grand-fathered back inSep 05 19:51
iophk 05 19:51 | Trinity Desktop EnvironmentSep 05 19:51
iophkOne of the advantages of Gnu/Linux was that it was supposed to be stable.  In theory you were supposed to be able to run the same DE and apps for years.  Sep 05 19:55
iophkIn practice, there has been less patching and more development so that users end up chasing versions. I'm not sure that's all bad, but it is sure not all good either.Sep 05 19:56
MinceRindeedSep 05 19:56
MinceRsome distros help a lot, thoughSep 05 19:57
iophkAFAIK Debian makes the most effort in that regard,Sep 05 19:57
iophkthey deserve a lot of praise.Sep 05 19:57
MinceRand some of its forks, including crunchbangSep 05 19:57
cubezzzas long as you have source code, you can back-portSep 05 19:57
iophkThat and they provide an excellent and essential foundation for derivative distros.  Sep 05 19:57
iophk#!, Mint, Ubuntu, Knoppix, etc.Sep 05 19:58
cubezzz2.11BSD went on and on and it might still get patchedSep 05 19:58
cubezzzthere's a few PDP-11's out there :)Sep 05 19:58
MinceR:)Sep 05 19:58
iophkI saw a PDP-11 for sale cheap many years ago.Sep 05 19:58
iophkIt was bigSep 05 19:58
cubezzzI'd get a DEC Pro 380 if I was to get into thatSep 05 20:00
cubezzzat least that fits on a desktopSep 05 20:00
iophkThe thing is if you hang on to a working unit long enough it becomes valuableSep 05 20:01
iophkBut until then it is taking up space and getting in the way.Sep 05 20:01
cubezzzI think the 380 isn't super-old, maybe about 1984 eraSep 05 20:01
iophkAnd the wait might be decades before it is worth anything.Sep 05 20:01
cubezzzbut if you want to run old Unix, it's one waySep 05 20:01
cubezzzworking 70s era stuff is getting priceySep 05 20:02
cubezzzwell, Unix old schoolers like the PDP-11/45'sSep 05 20:02
iophkI had a working Apple IIe years ago but gave it away.Sep 05 20:03
cubezzzit ran Unix v7 so it's importantSep 05 20:03
iophkWhy v7?Sep 05 20:03
cubezzzit's the last common ancestor of UnixSep 05 20:03
cubezzzeverything else derived from v7Sep 05 20:04
cubezzzwell, at least Unix-wiseSep 05 20:04
iophkCool.  The primordial OSSep 05 20:04
cubezzzin 1979 Unix v7 with PDP-11/45 had an MMU and multitasking for relatively cheapSep 05 20:04
iophkThe end of the 70's and all of the 80's brought an actual improvement in productivity due to computers.Sep 05 20:08
iophkThe nightmare stories I hear from Windows users, especially in die-hard M$ shops, tells me that productivity has been nosediving from recent 'computers'Sep 05 20:08
cubezzzwell memory bandwidth and bus speeds of the 11's wasn't greatSep 05 20:09
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cubezzzthat's why DEC bombed out and the intel boxes took overSep 05 20:09
cubezzzit was good in the 70s but crap in the 80s Sep 05 20:09
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cubezzzpeople should be aware there were desktops in the 60's Sep 05 20:10
iophkCP/M with Wordstar was common, but Visicalc on AppleDOS was, too.  I guess I'm thinking more for the non-technical users.Sep 05 20:10
cubezzzthe IBM 1130 was an affordable machine, used by some high schools in the late 60'sSep 05 20:10
iophkThere were still paper teletypes in the mid-70'sSep 05 20:11
cubezzzwell, also printing terminalsSep 05 20:12
cubezzzlike IBM 2741'sSep 05 20:12
cubezzzbefore my era, but interesting :)Sep 05 20:12
cubezzzyou could get an IBM 2250 for the 1130 for graphicsSep 05 20:16
cubezzzvery expensiveSep 05 20:16
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MinceRgnSep 05 22:32
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