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iophk 12 09:02 | Digital rights activist: EU's proposed net neutrality law 'as useful as an umbrella in a hurricane' -  [ ]Sep 12 09:02
iophk"Chromebook plus a government-forged Google certificate equals a man-in-the-middle attack  against the SSL security of Google's services—and a way for the  government to read all of your e-mails and documents as they pass back  and forth through an Internet chokepoint to and from your browser."Sep 12 09:04
iophk 12 09:04 | Why the NSA loves Google’s Chromebook | Ars Technica  [ ]Sep 12 09:04
schestowitzby extension, NSA loves GoogleSep 12 09:08
iophkIt does help centralize a heck of a lot of dataSep 12 09:08
schestowitzeven mouse clicksSep 12 09:09
schestowitzApps, StreetView, etc.Sep 12 09:10
schestowitzAnd one increasingly needs to log in, nm the cookiesSep 12 09:10
schestowitzso they know what places people THINK of Sep 12 09:10
schestowitzThe whole "crime prediction" fantasySep 12 09:10
schestowitzYouTube gives the NSA list of videos people are exposed toiSep 12 09:10
schestowitzor click on, or when they pause, skip..Sep 12 09:11
schestowitz"Sep 12 09:11
schestowitzBright pushing M$ again. - I thought that Nokia had already outsourced hardwareSep 12 09:11
schestowitz"The Nokia purchase: Microsoft starts turning in to Microhard"Sep 12 09:11
schestowitz 12 09:11
schestowitz"Sep 12 09:11 | The Nokia purchase: Microsoft starts turning into Microhard | Ars TechnicaSep 12 09:11
schestowitzDrPizza loves MicrosoftSep 12 09:11
schestowitzIt's his role at ArsSep 12 09:11
schestowitzLike Ina Fried at CNETSep 12 09:11
iophkYoutube does a lot of control over which ones are viewed.  Many are blocked from the HTML5 test and require backdooring your system with Flash (if it runs) to view.  That gives them the keyboard, mouse, camera and microphone.Sep 12 09:12
iophkYes M$ has their moles in most publications now.Sep 12 09:12
schestowitzbblSep 12 09:27
MinceRgeekingsSep 12 09:30
iophk"A computer program is not a patentable invention." Section 15, part 3A: 12 09:46
TechrightsBot-tr ( status 400 @ )Sep 12 09:46
MinceRso they'll combine it with random hardware and patent it anyway? :>Sep 12 09:49
iophkProbablySep 12 09:49
iophkIt's not *software*, it's *firmware*Sep 12 09:49
iophk 12 09:54 | Mark Zuckerberg and Marissa Mayer field questions about Prism | PCWorld  [ ]Sep 12 09:54
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MinceR 12 11:11
MisterEonly people who jailbreak are vulnerableSep 12 11:16
MisterEagain, I dont think that is fair, you've clearly made up your mind and won't consider any other possibilitySep 12 11:17
MinceRuh huhSep 12 11:17
MinceRbecause clearly crApple didn't take part in PRISM, right?Sep 12 11:17
MisterEand to say NSA or government asked Applefor this is probably more suited for #conspiracySep 12 11:17
MisterEApple was the last major company to participateSep 12 11:17
MinceRthey can betray your trust any number of times and you'll just keep trusting themSep 12 11:17
MisterEthey held out the longestSep 12 11:17
MisterEat least you can say thatSep 12 11:18
MisterEMS fukin jumped in bet with them, helped design itSep 12 11:18
MisterEthats who you should be bashingSep 12 11:18
MinceRm$ and crApple are two sides of the same coinSep 12 11:18
MinceRit's a false dichotomySep 12 11:18
MisterEfor a long time Apple's Messages app was not crackable by NSASep 12 11:18
MinceRthey're more similar now than ever beforeSep 12 11:18
MisterEcept one was quick to jump in and be the first company to pilot the program, the otehr held out for yearsSep 12 11:18
MisterEand I suspect was forced under secret court orderSep 12 11:19
MinceRthat's just speculationSep 12 11:19
MisterEI suspect many of the latter participants wereSep 12 11:19
MisterEofc it is so is your infoSep 12 11:19
MisterEit's all secret so we'll never know the truthSep 12 11:19
MisterEunless snowden grabbed some docs to be released soonSep 12 11:19
MisterEapparently he had access to much more than anyone thoughtSep 12 11:20
MinceR 12 11:20
MisterElogging in with superuser credsSep 12 11:20
MisterEmemes are hardly convincing of anythingSep 12 11:20
MisterEnot even rational thinkingSep 12 11:20
MisterEanyways, I won't bring it up againSep 12 11:21
MinceRcrApple has greater privileges on hypeOS than the customers who paid for and supposedly own the deviceSep 12 11:21
MisterEbut will say that if you want to be a credible journalist maybe don't wear your bias on your sleeveSep 12 11:21
MinceRspeaking of rational thinking, you sound like you're affected by cognitive dissonanceSep 12 11:21
MisterEwhy aren't you crapping on Android or Google or anyone else?Sep 12 11:21
MinceRi'm not crapping on anyoneSep 12 11:21
MisterEnow you're an internet psychologist :eyeroll:Sep 12 11:22
MinceRand i've made it clear that i don't agree with the design of android eitherSep 12 11:22
MisterE@MinceR: crAppleSep 12 11:22
MisterEyou happy with MS?Sep 12 11:22
MinceRat least it's easy for the owner to really own their android deviceSep 12 11:22
MinceRno, i'm not happy with m$Sep 12 11:22
MisterEyou know as asson as they acquired Skype NSA bragged about tripling their skype interceptsSep 12 11:22
MisterEthere are bigger villans than appleSep 12 11:22
MinceRare you trying to sell crApple as the only alternative than m$?Sep 12 11:23
MisterEis mainly what I am sayingSep 12 11:23
MinceRs/than/to/Sep 12 11:23
MisterEnopeSep 12 11:23
MisterEI own none of that shitSep 12 11:23
MisterEI have an old candybar phoneSep 12 11:23
MinceRwhy shill for them, then?Sep 12 11:23
MisterEbecause I only need a phone not a retarded pocket computerSep 12 11:23
MisterEoh so anyone who thinks your opinions are too extreme is a schill...Sep 12 11:23
MisterEI see what you did thereSep 12 11:24
MinceRwrongSep 12 11:24
MisterEMinceR: have you stopped beating your wife yet?Sep 12 11:24
MinceRmu.Sep 12 11:24
oiaohmThere is no way to confirm a system is clean unless you can replace all the hidden secrets.Sep 12 11:27
oiaohmThreat does not have to be in the OS it can in fact be hidden in firmware to drive the hardware.Sep 12 11:27
oiaohmClassic example fireware exploit to read all memory in particular laptops and desktops.Sep 12 11:27
oiaohmIn fact its read and write.Sep 12 11:28
MisterEthe only clean system is the one you build from the ground upSep 12 11:31
MisterEincluding the OSSep 12 11:32
MinceRthat doesn't make all other systems equally untrustworthySep 12 11:32
MisterEin the netsec world it doesSep 12 11:32
MisterEguilty until proven innocentSep 12 11:32
MinceRand that justifies promoting crApple how?Sep 12 11:33
MisterEnobody is promoting appleSep 12 11:33
MinceRexcept youSep 12 11:33
MisterEjust refuting your rubbish memesSep 12 11:33
MinceRyou haven't refuted themSep 12 11:33
MinceRto refute them, you need to prove that they don't and won't transmit the fingerprint data over the networkSep 12 11:33
MisterEwould you like to drop it, be put on ignore or me leave?Sep 12 11:34
MisterEtake your pickSep 12 11:34
MisterEno you need to prove they doSep 12 11:34
MinceRyou'd also need to prove that they can't change the code to do so in the futureSep 12 11:34
MisterEbyeSep 12 11:34
MinceR(protip: you can't)Sep 12 11:34
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amarsh04just a postscript for oiaohm - I have received a patch that fixed my kernel building issue - apparently a newer module-init-tools is needed, but not all distributions have itSep 12 11:58
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oiaohmamarsh04: I had that init tools one about 7 years ago.Sep 12 12:13
oiaohmamarsh04: I stopped being blending edge kernels 7 year agoSep 12 12:14
amarsh04after discovering many revisions later that my SCSI adapter was no longer working with current kernels, I kept closer track of latest kernelsSep 12 12:15
amarsh04doing a git-bisect on a PII-266 with 384 MiB of RAM was an exercise in patienceSep 12 12:15
amarsh04plus at least my DVB-T usb stick works with the current kernelsSep 12 12:16
amarsh04I keep stock Debian kernels installed in case the new ones failSep 12 12:16
oiaohmamarsh04:‎  this is 2007.Sep 12 12:23
TechrightsBot-tr ( status 404 @‎ )Sep 12 12:23
oiaohmamarsh04:  yes I had a reason for not going after the tip any more.Sep 12 12:24
oiaohmamarsh04: backports removes the need to move major version forwards to the point of busting the init tools.Sep 12 12:32
amarsh04some parts of the kernel building infrastructure must be a bit stressful to maintain (complex dependencies, backward and forward compatibililty issues)Sep 12 12:37
oiaohmamarsh04: newer version of tools around kernel supporting older kernels is simple due to how stable the kernel interfaces are.Sep 12 12:38
oiaohmamarsh04: is older tools supporting newer kernels where the hell its the fan.Sep 12 12:39
oiaohmThe odd item removed for secuirty reasons and so on ruin the older tools working with newer kenrels.Sep 12 12:39
oiaohmamarsh04: for the number of alterations Linux kernel need very few tool changes over all.Sep 12 12:40
amarsh04yes, it is pretty good overallSep 12 12:41
oiaohmamarsh04: Using backports also can bring sanity since you can change 1 driver at a time and don't end up having the case that the new kernel breaks something else.Sep 12 12:41
oiaohmBasically I changed for sanity reasons.Sep 12 12:42
oiaohmI had a horible motherboard in 2008Sep 12 12:42
oiaohm6 different drivers with issues.Sep 12 12:42
amarsh04I still wouldn't mind a version of Debian's popularity-contest that logged which kernel modules people actually usedSep 12 12:42
oiaohmrequired 3 different kernel versions to work fully.Sep 12 12:42
amarsh04ouch, I stopped using the built-in ethernet in a replacement old motherboard (SIS chipset)... simpler just to add an ethernet cardSep 12 12:43
oiaohmreally I wish debian and other distrobutions would support the backports project for hardware hell.Sep 12 12:43
oiaohmamarsh04: backports I got all my hardware working.Sep 12 12:44
amarsh04goodSep 12 12:44
oiaohmJust there is no simple interface for non techical users.Sep 12 12:44
amarsh04the old motherboard is an ASUS P4S800Sep 12 12:44
oiaohmamarsh04: your case with your recent breakages you might have been better going the backports path.Sep 12 12:45
oiaohmIe you can also choose with backports to be building a limited number of drivers.Sep 12 12:45
amarsh04new one is an ASUS M3A78 PROSep 12 12:45
oiaohmAs they say there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.Sep 12 12:45
oiaohmI find backports the safer way.Sep 12 12:45
amarsh04true, it needs some kind of interface where you can easily select what you needSep 12 12:46
oiaohmOf course it does not help that backports download page is still formually temporary.Sep 12 12:48
oiaohmamarsh04: dkms + backports would be a very good solution.Sep 12 12:49
oiaohmamarsh04: as long as a gui was added.Sep 12 12:49
amarsh04reliving one's childhood - 12 12:51
iophk 12 12:59 | Nokia's Fall Could Help Finland -  [ ]Sep 12 12:59
iophk"By 2012 Nokia's share of Finnish GDP was actually negative"Sep 12 12:59
oiaohmYes a lot of things about Nokia is a high do not buy company to anyone with sense.Sep 12 13:02
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schestowitzA fall helps?Sep 12 13:41
schestowitzIs this Murdoch logic?Sep 12 13:41
iophkYeahSep 12 13:41
iophksomething like thatSep 12 13:42
iophkNewkia and Jolla might be able to grow into good things but it would have been better for Nokia not to have been destroyed by the mole in the first place.Sep 12 13:42
iophkThey could have had significant market share with MeegoSep 12 13:42
iophkThe WSJ articles are probably not the best to cite.  They sometimes link ok but other times seem to go to a pay wall.Sep 12 13:47
oiaohmDouble side sword here.  MS becomes a hardware maker no other hardware maker will want to compette gainst them.Sep 12 13:48
iophkOr be foolish enough to partner with them.Sep 12 13:48
oiaohmResult is Microsoft product has less diversity so gets less shelf space.Sep 12 13:48
iophkThat could be the good side.Sep 12 13:48
oiaohmso get less customers.Sep 12 13:49
oiaohmNo matter how you do the maths the Nokia MS deal was a kiss of death.Sep 12 13:49
oiaohmTo both parties.Sep 12 13:49
iophkNokia was already gutted by Elop.  There was nothing left to continue forward.Sep 12 13:49
iophkLots of news like this : Sep 12 13:50
iophk 12 13:50 | Nokia Plans 4,000 Job Cuts to Shift Phone Assembly to Asia - Bloomberg  [ ]Sep 12 13:50
oiaohmiophk: who in asia is the question.Sep 12 13:58
oiaohmfoxcomm??Sep 12 13:58
oiaohmiophk: yes it gets stupid.  PS4 and Xbox One are both foxcomm assembled.Sep 12 13:59
iophkoiaohm: 12 14:01 | Foxconn builds products for many vendors, but its mud sticks to Apple - Computerworld  [ ]Sep 12 14:01
iophkThe comuterworld article claims some 'in-house' work but the other articles suggest otherwiseSep 12 14:03
iophk 12 14:04
iophk"There will be no assembling of mobile phones at our plants in Europe after this,"Sep 12 14:04 | Nokia will end cellphone assembly in Europe -  [ ]Sep 12 14:04
oiaohmiophk: there is also some mud sticking to xbox production.Sep 12 14:27
oiaohmiophk: contracts between foxcomm and the end buyer set the workers pay rates.Sep 12 14:27
iophkDo the power supplies still start apartment fires?Sep 12 14:27
oiaohmiophk: xbox fixed that.Sep 12 14:27
oiaohmiophk: 12 14:28 | Dozens of Foxconn’s Xbox 360 production line workers threaten suicide | GamesBeat  [ ]Sep 12 14:28
oiaohmiophk: foxcomm is a very rocky company to deal with.Sep 12 14:29
iophkYes, apparentlySep 12 14:29
iophkThere were other problems with the xbox besides the apartment fires.Sep 12 14:29
iophkRed Ring of Death got a lot of attention.  Used to see that in the in-store displays.Sep 12 14:29
iophkThen the xboxes were scratching a lot of discs.Sep 12 14:30
iophkI'm not a fan of Sony either after the stuff they have pulled.  But it is interesting to hear that PS4 is based on FreeBSD.sdSep 12 14:31
iophk,23254.htmlSep 12 14:31 | PS4's Orbis OS Heavily Based on FreeBSD  [ ]Sep 12 14:31
oiaohmreality it too exensive to make own OS any more.Sep 12 14:47
iophkYes.  And even maintaining a separate fork might be too costly.  Sep 12 14:47
oiaohmiophk: Orbis is basially work around to the solid wall of costs.Sep 12 14:47
iophkIt is more cost effective to include  as much upstream as possible.Sep 12 14:48
iophkIt took Google a while to come around to that, too.Sep 12 14:48
oiaohmApple has kinda pulled off forks of BSD.Sep 12 14:48
iophkTheir latest OS includes even PF.Sep 12 14:48
oiaohmEven so with dropping phone sales its a question how long can Apple support the forks.Sep 12 14:48
iophkApple may or may not been special under Steve Jobs but right now no one can deny that it is just another big company run by regular business people. Sep 12 14:49
iophkNo special technical flare exists thereSep 12 14:49
oiaohmiophk: apple is still attempting to have flare.Sep 12 14:51
oiaohmBut without jobs its going to be hard.Sep 12 14:51
iophkwith plastic iPhones?Sep 12 14:51
iophkJobs was a tough negotiator.Sep 12 14:52
iophkHe broke the recording industry and got both individual tracks and a 99¢ cap on those tracks.Sep 12 14:52
iophkI was expecting him to pull the same with TVprograms.Sep 12 14:53
iophkThe recording industry fought him and tried to bundle tracks.Sep 12 14:53
iophkBundling was just and artifact of the storage medium though.  First LP and then CD.Sep 12 14:53
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iophk 12 16:15 | A Strong Microsoft Is Good For The Industry Overall, Says Marissa Mayer  |  TechCrunch  [ ]Sep 12 16:15
iophkIt certainly hasn't been good for YahooSep 12 16:15
iophkThen again without the damage it may never have been weaked to the point where her job came available.Sep 12 16:16
MinceR 12 16:21 | 'Murica - Never forget the terror we unleashed, in fear, upon ourselves. - ImgurSep 12 16:21
MinceRa strong microsoft is fatal to IT, which is fatal to technology, which is fatal to civilizationSep 12 16:22
iophkSomeone could add up the lost productivity, too.Sep 12 16:25
MinceRand the damage due to extra stressSep 12 16:27
iophkI suspect that the extra stress is an intentional result by design.Sep 12 16:33
iophkIt's designed to avoid efficiency, ease and simplicitySep 12 16:40
iophkLots of click-pause, click-pause, click-pause, and so on all rather hypnoticSep 12 16:40
MinceRalso plenty of type-get interrupted by focus stealing crap-click-retypeSep 12 16:41
iophkfocus stealing leaves old tasks incomplete and forces new ones in, eventually a mental stack overflow occursSep 12 16:44
iophkpeople tell me that they get used to not getting work done and the interaction with the UI itself becomes comforting insteadSep 12 16:45
iophkfor others it is just stressfulSep 12 16:45
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iophk 12 17:27 | Michael Dell, Silver Lake win shareholder OK for $25 billion buyout | Reuters  [ ]Sep 12 17:27
iophkSock puppetry: M$ Silver Lake onthe one side and M$ Icahn on the other.Sep 12 17:27
iophk"If Michael Dell can turn it around as a private company, why can't he do it as a public company?,"Sep 12 17:30
iophk"Voting on the buyout had been postponed three times as Michael Dell and Sep 12 17:33
iophkthe company's board scrambled to garner enough votes... and got the Sep 12 17:33
iophkboard to change voting rules so that abstentions no longer count against him, Sep 12 17:33
iophkturning the tide in the CEO's favor."Sep 12 17:33
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*DaemonFC doesn't get instant coffee.....Sep 12 19:40
DaemonFCSeems that every old person has some.Sep 12 19:40
DaemonFCI don't know how people drink it.Sep 12 19:40
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DaemonFCI had a survey ask me what my favorite instant coffee was. I checked "other" and said "It's all disgusting.".Sep 12 19:42
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 19:42
DaemonFCThose individually wrapped coffee bags (they work like tea bags) are pretty good, but it's expensive.Sep 12 19:43
DaemonFCI just brew a full pot and drink off of that all day. I have one of those insulated carafes, so it doesn't get scorched.Sep 12 19:44
DaemonFCOne thing I've noticed is that ground coffee is pretty much all the same. I can't tell you which one is the Nantucket Blend and which one is the Kroger Value. Maybe I'm just missing something. There's only been two brands that I've tried that are completely disgusting. One is "Master Chef" and the other is Maxwell House Daily Brew (Dollar General has it on sale all the time). If you're going to go below $6 (every day price) for a can, ALDI'sSep 12 19:47
DaemonFC is the only one that's drinkable. Other than that, just take your pick. get the one thatSep 12 19:47
*DaemonFC wonders how there ever got to be so many pretentious coffee snobs.Sep 12 19:47
DaemonFCMy former landlord seems to have noticed how difficult it is to sell to people in this town. Almost nobody can get credit, so he's selling most of the sub-$100K homes on contract.Sep 12 19:50
DaemonFCSeems to me that banks are becoming less relevant. They won't give loans to anyone, so non-traditional financing is becoming the norm.Sep 12 19:51
DaemonFCI actually had my own credit union turn me down.Sep 12 19:51
DaemonFCMy FICO score is 745!Sep 12 19:51
DaemonFCI had a bunch of accounts that are "Paid as agreed", 100% on-time payments, etc.Sep 12 19:52
DaemonFCIn 7 years, I had one negative mark on my entire report, and that was an emergency room bill from 2009 that went to a collection agency.Sep 12 19:53
DaemonFCSo they used that to deny me the loan.Sep 12 19:53
DaemonFCIn 2004, my FICO score was only 680, and I had the Chevrolet dealership offering me 0% APR for the life of the loan on any car I wanted from their entire lot.Sep 12 19:54
DaemonFCThey're really clamping down. Used to be that 700 or higher meant you got pretty much any loan you asked for, with low interest.Sep 12 19:54
iophkinstand coffee just a pinch between your cheek and gumsSep 12 20:23
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MinceR 12 20:45
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*DaemonFC changed over to HexChat...Sep 12 21:17
DaemonFCWe'll see how this goes. Development on XChat seems to have stopped for some time now.Sep 12 21:17
DaemonFCFedora has been maintaining it enough to fix security problems and make sure it still builds, but that's about it.Sep 12 21:18
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Sosumixchat is deadSep 12 22:19
Sosumithat's all there is to say about itSep 12 22:19
MinceRalso that it's sharewareSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCOnly the Windows version.Sep 12 22:54
MinceRof its newest version, there is only a windows shareware releaseSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCStill, it's alarming that the guy claimed that he had the right to relicense code contributed by others.Sep 12 22:54
DaemonFCMaybe the only changes were Windows-specific?Sep 12 22:55
MinceRi don't see why i would pay for a gui irc client that isn't nearly as good as kvircSep 12 22:55
MinceRDaemonFC: every time i checked the newest version was windows onlySep 12 22:55
MinceRi suppose it would be better to check if once a newer shareware version is out, is the previous shareware/windows only version released as freeSep 12 22:56
MinceRi've never bothered to do that, but it would be a more complete checkSep 12 22:56
DaemonFCI've done business with this dealership I'm looking at before.Sep 12 23:33
DaemonFCTheir prices have gotten crazy.Sep 12 23:33
DaemonFCThey want $4,000 for a 2003 Ford Taurus SE with 116,000 miles.Sep 12 23:33
DaemonFCIn "Good" condition, that is a $2,500 car.Sep 12 23:33
DaemonFCIf that wasn't bad enough, they have a 2003 Ford Contour with a dinky little four cylinder engine and 227,000 miles for $2,000.Sep 12 23:34
DaemonFCThat's a $500 car on a good day, if it runs.Sep 12 23:34
DaemonFC:PSep 12 23:34
DaemonFCI don't know. I kind of like the Taurus, but if I couldn't talk them down to at least $2,600, I'd walk. :)Sep 12 23:35
MinceRfour cylinder engines are "dinky little" now? :>Sep 12 23:35
DaemonFCYeah, they're crap.Sep 12 23:35
DaemonFCMost of them don't even get close to 200,000 miles.Sep 12 23:36
DaemonFCThat thing "should" have failed a long time ago. They just don't last.Sep 12 23:36
MinceRwell, maybe fords don't last that longSep 12 23:36
DaemonFCThere's 6 cylinder Ford Tauruses and Chevy Impalas that have almost 300,000 miles on them, and are still going.Sep 12 23:36
DaemonFCYou never see that out of a 4 cylinder, unless it's a Honda or you'd rebuilt the engine at some point.Sep 12 23:37
DaemonFC*you'veSep 12 23:37
MinceRwell, i'll take a honda over a ford any daySep 12 23:37
DaemonFC4 cylinder engines just don't last very long.Sep 12 23:37
DaemonFCYou'd be lucky to get 10 years off of one under normal use and regular maintenance. Probably less than 25% of them are still on the road after 15 years.Sep 12 23:38
DaemonFCThere's no reason at all why a well-built car shouldn't still be running after 20 years.Sep 12 23:39
DaemonFCGM has gotten much worse lately, though.Sep 12 23:39
DaemonFCPretty much any Impala newer than 2003 is crap.Sep 12 23:39
DaemonFCSensor problems, transmission issues, etc.Sep 12 23:39
DaemonFCI saw a recall for an engine compartment fire hazard on my mom's car, which she never took it in for.Sep 12 23:40
DaemonFC"I just don't have time!"Sep 12 23:40
DaemonFCThey were even going to pay to fix it!Sep 12 23:40
DaemonFCDo you have time to be on the side of the road with an engine that's on fire?Sep 12 23:40
DaemonFC:PSep 12 23:40
MinceRapparently.Sep 12 23:40
DaemonFCI've never driven anything newer than a 1995 model. Probably the newest car I'll be looking for over the next 6 months will be a 2004.Sep 12 23:41
DaemonFCIf I can get in the area of $2,500-$3,000 2002-2004 Ford Taurus with 100,000-120,000 miles on it, I'd be happy.Sep 12 23:42
DaemonFCAnything newer just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.Sep 12 23:43
DaemonFCCars are an investment that loses you money rapidly.Sep 12 23:43
DaemonFCIf you can get one for $3,000 that gets you around for 10 years, why not just do that?Sep 12 23:43
MinceRcomputers seem to lose faster, though :>Sep 12 23:43
DaemonFCLots of people spend more than that and only keep the car for its first 5 years or so.Sep 12 23:43
DaemonFCLeases are a really shitty deal.Sep 12 23:44
DaemonFCYou pay like $3,000 up front, plus a $200 payment every month for 24 months.Sep 12 23:44
DaemonFCSo you're about $7,800 in on the car and then you turn it in and start all over.Sep 12 23:44
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DaemonFCMinceR, The worst deal of all is saved for people who are really really poor.Sep 12 23:46
DaemonFCThey double the FMV of an old car with lots of miles, then finance it at 25%.Sep 12 23:46
DaemonFCIf you can't cough up three grand, what makes you think you'll ever pay off eight or nine?Sep 12 23:47
DaemonFCStopping along the way for all of the mechanical problems you'd expect out of an old car with lots of miles. :)Sep 12 23:47
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DaemonFCPoor people do some dumb things out of desperation.Sep 12 23:48
DaemonFCNot really sure if I should feel bad for them or not.Sep 12 23:48
DaemonFCI guess it really depends.Sep 12 23:49
DaemonFCWith me, I just save up for several months and buy a $3,000 car in cash.Sep 12 23:49
DaemonFCThis one I have has turned out to be an extremely good deal.Sep 12 23:49
DaemonFCPaid $2,000 for it in 2005, and probably put about $1,200 into repairs since then.Sep 12 23:50
DaemonFCIt would have been worth more at the time, except I pointed out some stuff that I was going to have to fix, and managed to get the guy down by about $800.Sep 12 23:50
DaemonFCPointed out a leaking radiator and the bald tires.Sep 12 23:51
MinceRthose tires baldly go where no man has gone beforeSep 12 23:51
DaemonFCWell, it's pretty bad when someone has driven them to the point where they have no tread left at all.Sep 12 23:51
DaemonFCThe fronts had cords showing.Sep 12 23:52
DaemonFCThe rear tires had less than 20% tread left.Sep 12 23:52
DaemonFCSo the first thing I had to do was put new tires on it.Sep 12 23:52
DaemonFCI'm lucky that I did that when I did.Sep 12 23:53
DaemonFCThey were only like $55 per tire with free install at the time.Sep 12 23:53
DaemonFCThen a year later, the US government put some kind of anti-dumping tax on Chinese tires.Sep 12 23:53
DaemonFCIt didn't bring production back to the US or protect jobs or anything.Sep 12 23:53
DaemonFCIt just made the same tire $80 with the difference going to the federal government... :PSep 12 23:54
DaemonFCSpeaking of which.... The last time I was at Walmart for an oil change, I saw "Fuel System Treatment" listed as a $20 service.Sep 12 23:55
DaemonFCSo I asked the guy "What do you do, exactly, for that $20?"Sep 12 23:55
DaemonFCHe said they pour a bottle of gumout into the gas tank.Sep 12 23:55
DaemonFCI said "The same bottle of gumout that's $3 over there?"Sep 12 23:55
DaemonFC"Yeah, pretty much."Sep 12 23:56

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