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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: September 13th, 2013

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MinceR:)Sep 13 00:14
MinceRgnSep 13 00:17
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AdmFubarhi allSep 13 01:45
AdmFubaranyone here know wayne borean?Sep 13 01:45
AdmFubar 13 01:46 | Through the Looking Glass – link | Just another siteSep 13 01:47
AdmFubarI think his gmail account may have compromisedSep 13 01:47
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AdmFubar 13 02:54 | Verizon's diabolical plan to turn the Web into pay-per-view | The Industry Standard - InfoWorld  [ ]Sep 13 02:54
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schestowitz"Sep 13 08:00
schestowitzfigure the odds that the Washington Post will cover this or any other inequity mattersSep 13 08:00
schestowitz 13 08:00
schestowitz 13 08:00 | Barack Obama's letter explaining Amazon visit sparks criticism | Books |  [ ]Sep 13 08:00
schestowitzold - Sep 13 08:00 | True Stories of Life as an Amazon Worker  [ ]Sep 13 08:00
schestowitz 13 08:00 | I Was a Warehouse Wage Slave | Mother Jones  [ ]Sep 13 08:00
schestowitz"Sep 13 08:00
schestowitzWashPo is not the exception, the corporate press is full of conflictsSep 13 08:00
iophkThe Amazon stories are probably true for other warehousing mail order companies.Sep 13 08:01
iophkIt makes me really hesitant to send money to Amazon.Sep 13 08:01
iophkBut that is getting harder and harder.Sep 13 08:01
iophkThere are fewer local shops each year and what they carry diminishes in breadth every quarter.Sep 13 08:02
iophkThere's also less competition from the big companies.  Sep 13 08:02
iophkBorders Inc got taken over by MBAs and went the way most MBA activity goes within months.Sep 13 08:02
iophkSo that's gone from the world, too.Sep 13 08:02
schestowitzAmazon had other such scandalsSep 13 08:03
schestowitzIn Germany, Aamzon hired Neo-Nazi connected groups for securitySep 13 08:04
schestowitzI never bought anything on AmazonSep 13 08:04
iophkMe neither, but it is getting harder to avoid.Sep 13 08:04
iophkfor much longer.Sep 13 08:04
iophk 13 08:06 | Warehouse Worker Complaints get Outed  [ ]Sep 13 08:06
iophkOSHA seems to have little to no influence there.Sep 13 08:07
DaemonFC 13 08:08 | - Quotes - Al BundySep 13 08:08
schestowitzBundy FTWSep 13 08:09
iophk 13 08:13 | Amazon warehouses working-condition complaints are nothing new | MobyLives  [ ]Sep 13 08:13
iophk 13 08:17 | Amazon's Best Excuses for Abusing Sick and Pregnant Workers  [ ]Sep 13 08:17
iophk 13 08:20 | Cisco can’t shield customers from patent suits, court affirms  [ ]Sep 13 08:20
iophk"the with a of TR Labs' contention that its patent infringement claims are rightfully against the users of telecommunications equipment"Sep 13 08:20
schestowitz 13 08:52
TechrightsBot-tr@gnutelephony: @schestowitz sharing is a human right & basic human dignity, regardless of the domain it occurs in; social, cultural, technological.Sep 13 08:52
MinceRgeekingsSep 13 09:09
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iophk 13 09:48 | UK Prime Minister Appoints New Anti-Piracy Enforcement Advisor | TorrentFreak  [ ]Sep 13 09:48
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iophkOne point missing from a lot of news about Dell, especially the headlines, is that it is not Michael Dell alone buying the company back.Sep 13 09:57
iophkIt 's M$ Silver Lake there too.Sep 13 09:57
iophkThat kind of money can't come without strings.Sep 13 09:58
iophkKantar ? Sep 13 10:00
iophk 13 10:00 | 'Majority of British women want new laws to tackle web trolls' - Telegraph  [ ]Sep 13 10:00
iophk 13 10:25 | Browser Plugin Reports Torrent Links to Anti-Piracy Company | TorrentFreak  [ ]Sep 13 10:25
MinceR 13 10:25 | Photo Gallery: Spying on Smartphones - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International  [ ]Sep 13 10:25
MinceR 13 10:30 | (Trying To) Face Down The Evil At TechCrunch Disrupt | Uncrunched  [ ]Sep 13 10:30
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oiaohm 13 11:19
oiaohmThis is a big one.   All those promises that upstream may protect you from patents may be worthless.Sep 13 11:19
iophkoiaohm: yes, it is always the end-user who is on the hook for patent infringmentSep 13 11:20
iophkdistribution is covered by copyright, usage is covered by patentsSep 13 11:20
iophk"IP" noisemakers try to confuse the issue, but that's how it isSep 13 11:20
iophkso far users have been mostly small fish, but the tide is turningSep 13 11:21
iophk 13 11:21 | Did You Scan And Email That Document?  You Might Owe $1000 To A Patent Troll - Forbes  [ ]Sep 13 11:21
oiaohmiophk: Microsoft and others try to sell there product with so call patent protection.Sep 13 11:21
iophkyes extortionSep 13 11:22
oiaohmReally MS idea is that patents would stop Open source from developing and there end users would be protected.Sep 13 11:22
oiaohmIf that has  failed.Sep 13 11:23
iophk"indemnification" was all the rage a few years ago, but I have the suspicion that it is not worth muchSep 13 11:23
iophkM$ is still spreading patents via SuseSep 13 11:23
oiaohmChoosing FOSS or Microsoft products or any other closed source are on equal footing.Sep 13 11:23
oiaohmIf the indemnification thing does not exist.Sep 13 11:23
iophkI have the feeling it doesnt but then I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TVSep 13 11:24
oiaohmCisco case also suggest Distrobutions don't have to pay because they don't know how the end user is using it iophkSep 13 11:24
oiaohmWelcome to a new pandora box.Sep 13 11:24
oiaohmHow this pandora plays out could see MS really up the stuffed.Sep 13 11:25
iophkWhat I'd like to see is one side play up the fact that software is not patentable in the EU nor in NZSep 13 11:25
iophkPeople there are safe.Sep 13 11:26
iophkThat gives business a big leg up.Sep 13 11:26
iophkThere are so many sw patents threatening any business, even small ones, that if even a fraction of them each take a bite, there is no pie left.Sep 13 11:26
oiaohmiophk: if every software patent has to be applied against each business forget end users individual there is not enough court to process the cases before patent expiry.Sep 13 11:29
oiaohmBasically what just happened could be bad enough to cause the complete patent system to colapse in a failed heap.Sep 13 11:30
iophkIt could be prevented by just banning sw patents in the USSep 13 11:31
iophkBy going after end users, it may be more work but there is also a more steady stream of money.Sep 13 11:31
iophkThe big companies have money and lawyers to fight back with.Sep 13 11:31
oiaohmGoing after end users has not been that effective for copy write protection.Sep 13 11:32
oiaohmgoing after end users does not give any ensurance of a steady stream of moeny.Sep 13 11:33
iophkThat seems to  be a different model.Sep 13 11:33
iophkThe more that pay up, the more likely new targets will acquiesce to demands to pay up.Sep 13 11:34
oiaohmiophk: theory has not been backed by copyright enforcement.Sep 13 11:34
iophkcopyright is differentSep 13 11:34
oiaohmThe number that pay up to threat is quite low.Sep 13 11:34
oiaohmiophk: copyright has tested the sending out letter threat and see if person pays up.Sep 13 11:35
iophkcopyright is also about smaller sums AFAIKSep 13 11:35
oiaohmiophk:  Basically method of getting end users to pay has been tested by copyright enforcement.Sep 13 11:35
iophkThe scanner patent above was for about $1000 per hitSep 13 11:35
oiaohmiophk: I would say not.Sep 13 11:35
oiaohmiophk: highest here is 10 000 dollars a hit on copyright infrenment.Sep 13 11:36
iophkbut the number of copyright infringers for any given work is small compare to the number of customers infringing on a set of patentsSep 13 11:37
iophkif a product infringes on a patent, then ALL its users are on the hookSep 13 11:37
oiaohmiophk: think of copyright infringers as a sample set of end users.Sep 13 11:37
iophkyes but a relatively small sampleSep 13 11:37
oiaohmiophk: but its the only sample set we have that can predict how end users are going to react.Sep 13 11:38
oiaohmThe sample set suggest its going to be a up hill battle.Sep 13 11:38
iophkThere is also probably more wiggle room with copyright.  Fair use varies quite a bit from country to country.Sep 13 11:39
iophkWIth patents there is no fair useSep 13 11:39
iophkOnly use-and-pay-up or do-not-useSep 13 11:39
oiaohmiophk: only pay up if you use exactly the same method.Sep 13 11:39
oiaohmiophk: yes patents do have wiggle room.Sep 13 11:39
iophkThe sw patents are generally very vague and hard to get around.Sep 13 11:40
oiaohmIn fact too vague is a valid reason for a patent not to apply.Sep 13 11:40
oiaohmBecause its not decribing the method used.Sep 13 11:40
oiaohmYes there is huge ways patents have wiggle room.Sep 13 11:41
oiaohmThe reality software should have always been sold with patent licenses.Sep 13 11:43
oiaohmto use particular techs.Sep 13 11:43
oiaohmand end users should be able to buy the licenses they need.Sep 13 11:43
oiaohmif the system was working properly.Sep 13 11:43
iophkActually, if the system were working properly, there would be no sw patents.Sep 13 11:45
iophksw is an expression and thus under copyrightSep 13 11:46
iophkbut underneath it is just algorithms and math which are not patentable.Sep 13 11:46
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oiaohmiophk: lot of patents should not have been granted.Sep 13 12:08
iophkYes, the issue of bad patents is an additional problem.Sep 13 12:11
iophkBut a larger mistake is the granting of any sw patents at all.Sep 13 12:12
oiaohmiophk: good part is if the complete system colapses then it has to be fixed.Sep 13 12:19
iophkthe collapse may take a while yetSep 13 12:19
iophkand the US is still trying to drag down other countries with the sw patent messSep 13 12:19
oiaohmiophk: of course USA is trying to draw everyone else in the patent mess.Sep 13 12:33
oiaohmMore and more production is not happening in the USA.Sep 13 12:34
oiaohmResult is USA might end up not able to pay bills.Sep 13 12:34
iophkThey might have gone too far out on that limb.Sep 13 12:35
iophkIt's probably not too late though.Sep 13 12:35
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MinceR 13 18:35 | [Update] Google knows where you've been and they might be holding your encryption keys - TechRepublic  [ ]Sep 13 18:35
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iophkconflict of interest much ?Sep 13 20:20
iophk 13 20:20 | Company - Management - Board of Directors | F-Secure  [ ]Sep 13 20:20
iophk 13 20:21 | Nokia Chairman Risto Siilasmaa Outlines Its Next Reinvention  |  TechCrunch  [ ]Sep 13 20:21
iophk 13 20:25 | Risto Siilasmaa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  [ ]Sep 13 20:26
iophk"founder and former CEO of F-Secure Corporation"Sep 13 20:26
iophkHis fortune has been built on keeping computers insecure by running WindowsSep 13 20:27
iophk"He is also the biggest shareholder of F-Secure, owning around 40% of the company"Sep 13 20:31
iophkSo every Windows Phone is a potential F-secure sale.  Going Meego or Android would not need it.Sep 13 20:32
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sebsebseb Sep 13 20:33
MinceRhe has nothing to gain from winblows phone sales, thoughSep 13 20:33
iophkMaybe, but going with Meego, Tizen or Android would prevent him from gaining. Sep 13 20:34
iophkIt could also be about ideology.Sep 13 20:34
iophkHe has built his previous company around M$Sep 13 20:35
iophkAs an increasing number of people have pointed out and are continuing to point out, the board let Elop in and let him grind the company down.Sep 13 20:35
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DaemonFC 13 21:43 | 1991 oldsmobile cutlass ciera  [ ]Sep 13 21:43
DaemonFCThis is the one I offered the guy $2,500 for.Sep 13 21:43
DaemonFCI can see why he's having a hard time selling it.Sep 13 21:43
DaemonFCHe's demanding at least $1,000 over blue book value.Sep 13 21:43
DaemonFCIt's been sitting there since July.Sep 13 21:46
DaemonFCIf it's still there next month, I might go back and offer him $3,000, final offer.Sep 13 21:46
DaemonFCHe went into some story about how he paid to have new brakes on it and he was going to give it to his son, but he turned it down.Sep 13 21:47
DaemonFCThat's what I hate about dealing with people. They always act like their life story is going to make the merchandise more valuable.Sep 13 21:47
DaemonFCMinceR, BTW, yes, a 4 cylinder engine is something you get in a cheap little economy car.Sep 13 22:15
DaemonFCI can't believe they ever tried using them in a Ford Taurus.Sep 13 22:15
MinceRyes, i know you have enormous gas guzzlers over there in the usa :>Sep 13 22:16
DaemonFCI think they stopped doing that around the mid 1990s because people were complaining that the car was so underpowered in that configuration.Sep 13 22:16
DaemonFCI'd just never buy anything smaller than a 3 liter V6Sep 13 22:16
DaemonFCA Ford Taurus is hardly a enormous gas guzzler.Sep 13 22:17
DaemonFCMinceR, You want a gas guzzler? I was looking at a 1997 Ford Crown Victoria with the police package earlier.Sep 13 22:17
DaemonFC8 miles per gallon.Sep 13 22:17
DaemonFCIt's really fast, but it's a big heavy car.Sep 13 22:17
DaemonFCSaid that they got it from an Indiana State Police auction.Sep 13 22:17
DaemonFCJust what I want. An 8 MPG car that they chased speeders with day in and day out.Sep 13 22:18
DaemonFC:PSep 13 22:18
MinceR:>Sep 13 22:18
DaemonFCOf course, the police aren't worried how much gas they burn or how much they beat the shit out of their cars.Sep 13 22:18
DaemonFCThey can always make us buy them more gas and new cars.Sep 13 22:18
DaemonFCThey sit there with the engine running pretty much 24 hours a day.Sep 13 22:19
DaemonFCMinceR, The police have special state-issued credit cards that override the gas pumps.Sep 13 22:20
DaemonFCThe pump sees it's a state vehicle and waives the state and federal gas tax, and the sales tax.Sep 13 22:20
DaemonFCIt's well known that cops gas up their personal vehicles with those cards.Sep 13 22:20
DaemonFCOr just use their cop car as their personal vehicle.Sep 13 22:21
MinceRi'm guessing you have bigger parking slots over there :>Sep 13 22:21
DaemonFCWalmart's parking lot is as big as the store.Sep 13 22:21
DaemonFCThe store is roughly 250,000 square feet.Sep 13 22:21
DaemonFCThey bulldozed the old Walmart to make more room for their parking lot.Sep 13 22:22
DaemonFCB-)Sep 13 22:22
DaemonFCYou want to talk about an excess of excess....Sep 13 22:22
MinceRwell, i think tescos and auchans have about as big parking lots as the stores themselves over hereSep 13 22:23
DaemonFCFrom what I understand, the smallest cheapest cars you can possibly buy here are standard in most of Europe.Sep 13 22:23
DaemonFCAnd when you buy it, you basically just hope you never get hit by an SUV or something.Sep 13 22:23
DaemonFCBecause there won't be anything left.Sep 13 22:24
MinceRindeedSep 13 22:24
MinceRif i had a choice, i'd be driving at least a SUV hereSep 13 22:24
MinceRthe roads suck and the people don't know how to driveSep 13 22:24
DaemonFC 13 22:24
DaemonFCThat's the same model, year, and color as my carSep 13 22:24
DaemonFC 13 22:25 | Ford Taurus SHO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  [ ]Sep 13 22:25
DaemonFC3 liter DOHC V6, with the four speed automatic transmission.Sep 13 22:25
MinceRthat's not a "full-size car", though :>Sep 13 22:25
DaemonFCNo, but it's fast.Sep 13 22:26
DaemonFCVery very fast.Sep 13 22:26
DaemonFCB-)Sep 13 22:26
DaemonFCWhen Ford bought enough of the DOHC V6 to complete their agreement with Yamaha, they switched to a 4.3 liter V8.Sep 13 22:26
DaemonFCI'd rather have the V6 though.Sep 13 22:27
DaemonFCAbout the only difference is that the V8 burns more gas.Sep 13 22:27
DaemonFCWait, no, it was a 3.4 V8. I was confused. A guy I used to work with had a 4.3 in his.Sep 13 22:28
DaemonFCBut he put it in. It wasn't standard.Sep 13 22:28
DaemonFC 13 22:29
DaemonFCThere's what they look like now.Sep 13 22:29
DaemonFCI want one, but I'm nowhere near being able to afford it.Sep 13 22:30
DaemonFCMinceR, I've been looking through Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles too.Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFCOld people get those and barely put any miles on them.Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFCThey spend most of the time in their garage.Sep 13 22:31
MinceRis that why they call them "Oldsmobile"? :>Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFCYeah.Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFCBut they have these gigantic engines in them.Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFCAbout the smallest you usually see is a 3.8 liter V6Sep 13 22:31
DaemonFCThey're practically unkillable. It's not unheard of for them to make it over 300,000 miles.Sep 13 22:32
DaemonFCI was looking at one the other day, the guy included a picture of the odometer reading, and it was at 376,000 miles.Sep 13 22:33
DaemonFC 13 22:34
DaemonFC3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national&listType=1Sep 13 22:34
TechrightsBot-tr ( status 500 @ )Sep 13 22:34
DaemonFCdammitSep 13 22:34
DaemonFC:PSep 13 22:34
DaemonFCWell, that might be a good deal.Sep 13 22:34
DaemonFCa 2002 Taurus SELSep 13 22:34
MinceRSorry, you got a lemon.Sep 13 22:34
MinceRThat page could not be found on our serverSep 13 22:34
DaemonFCLOLSep 13 22:34
MinceRoh, the link was brokenSep 13 22:34
MinceRfixed it :)Sep 13 22:35
DaemonFCThey don't include a picture.Sep 13 22:35
MinceRindeedSep 13 22:35
DaemonFCI'd have to call and ask some questions.Sep 13 22:35
DaemonFCA big one is "Is there any rust on it."Sep 13 22:35
DaemonFCI will not buy a car with rust.Sep 13 22:35
DaemonFCOne trick I've seen people do is painting over the rust.Sep 13 22:36
DaemonFCIt'll look great for a few months, and then the paint starts bubbling up and then the rust exposes itself again.Sep 13 22:36
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MinceRhow do you detect that when buying?Sep 13 22:37
DaemonFCTake your finger and poke around the usual rust areas.Sep 13 22:37
DaemonFCI did that and had my finger go clear through once.Sep 13 22:37
DaemonFCThe guy was pissed.Sep 13 22:38
DaemonFCSometimes they do a really bad paint job.Sep 13 22:38
DaemonFCLike they'll go to Walmart and buy some touch up paint.Sep 13 22:38
DaemonFCSo it won't match completely.Sep 13 22:38
DaemonFCOr they'll accidentally get paint somewhere that's not supposed to be painted.Sep 13 22:39
DaemonFCI had a 1995 Chevrolet Corsica that had engine problems.Sep 13 22:40
DaemonFCIt started making a chugging noise while it was running.Sep 13 22:40
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DaemonFCSo I poured Lucas "oil stabilizer" in it.Sep 13 22:40
DaemonFCIt quieted the engine long enough to sell it to someone I really didn't like.Sep 13 22:40
DaemonFCThree weeks later, it threw a rod.Sep 13 22:41
MinceR 13 22:42 | FBI Admits It Controlled Tor Servers Behind Mass Malware Attack | Threat Level |  [ ]Sep 13 22:42
DaemonFCWhen you're checking out a used car, check all the fluids.Sep 13 22:42
MinceR:>Sep 13 22:42
DaemonFCEspecially the oil!Sep 13 22:42
DaemonFCIf it's over or under full, or looks burned, don't buy the car.Sep 13 22:42
DaemonFCTransmission fluid should be blood red.Sep 13 22:42
DaemonFCIf it's brown, it means that the transmission hasn't been serviced on schedule.Sep 13 22:43
DaemonFCMost car part stores also sell a coolant testing kit for about a dollar or two.Sep 13 22:43
DaemonFCIf the coolant tests bad, it means that they haven't flushed it on schedule.Sep 13 22:43
DaemonFCThat's not a deal breaker with GM Dexcool. (Orange)Sep 13 22:44
DaemonFCFord also has a blue coolant that they've been using that's similar.Sep 13 22:44
DaemonFCYou might still want to buy the car, and just get it flushed if either of those are the case.Sep 13 22:44
DaemonFCBut if it's the green stuff and hasn't been flushed, you don't want the car.Sep 13 22:44
DaemonFCWhen the green stuff goes bad, it becomes corrosive and starts eating the hoses, the radiator, the heater core, the water pump, and might have already caused engine damage.Sep 13 22:45
DaemonFCA lot of people don't maintain their car.Sep 13 22:46
DaemonFCThey just plan to get rid of them at the last minute, as soon as they start having problems caused by their lack of maintenance.Sep 13 22:46
DaemonFCIt's always best to ask up front if they have all the service records.Sep 13 22:47
DaemonFCAnother big problem with used cars is that people will wreck them and have them repaired out of pocket so they don't have to report an at-fault accident to their insurance company.Sep 13 22:47
DaemonFCSo you have some cars out there that should really have Salvage titles, that don't.Sep 13 22:48
DaemonFCI also take a look at the brakes and tires.Sep 13 22:48
DaemonFCWorn brakes and tires without a lot of tread on them bring the value of the car down.Sep 13 22:49
DaemonFCBecause a brake job is about $400-500, and four new tires will be anywhere from $300-$1,000Sep 13 22:49
DaemonFCBad tires and worn out brakes are enough of a problem that they can bring the value of an otherwise excellent car down to Fair or Good.Sep 13 22:50
DaemonFCSo you should negotiate the price down to Fair or Good if the first thing you're going to have to do is get new tires.Sep 13 22:50
DaemonFCThat's what I did when I bought my 95 Taurus.Sep 13 22:50
DaemonFCThe tires were so far gone that there was no way I would get out of replacing them right away.Sep 13 22:51
DaemonFCSo I got the guy down about $500 for that.Sep 13 22:51
DaemonFCI always get the tire warranty for $10 per tire. It gives you free lifetime tire rotations, and they'll prorate a replacement tire.Sep 13 22:52
DaemonFCI always seem to run over a nail or something before the tire is worn out.Sep 13 22:53
MinceRintentionally? :>Sep 13 22:53
DaemonFCOf course not. :)Sep 13 22:53
DaemonFCGee, wouldn't you know it? 40% of the tread left and I ran over some nails...Sep 13 22:53
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 22:53
MinceR:)Sep 13 22:54
DaemonFCThey have to give you replacements for 40% off if that happens.Sep 13 22:54
DaemonFCAnother thing to keep in mind is that if you're buying from a dealer, you can put the car on your credit card.Sep 13 22:55
DaemonFCAt least most of them let you do that.Sep 13 22:55
DaemonFC$3,000 car = $45 in rewards points. :)Sep 13 22:56
MinceR:)Sep 13 22:56
DaemonFCI also put the state sales tax, plate fees, registration, etc on my rewards card.Sep 13 22:57
DaemonFCI sent the dealer an email.Sep 13 23:01
DaemonFCI asked if they had pictures, and what the condition of the vehicle was, and if they take Visa.Sep 13 23:01
DaemonFC:PSep 13 23:01
DaemonFCMight as well find out if it's an old rust bucket with bad everything before I drive all the way up to Fort Wayne.Sep 13 23:01
DaemonFCSometimes they're reasonable about pricing because they got it as a trade and just want it off their lot.Sep 13 23:02
DaemonFCSometimes, it's shot and they want way more than a fair price to saddle someone with a bad car.Sep 13 23:02
DaemonFCThe Taurus SEL is a fine vehicle.Sep 13 23:03
DaemonFCIt's pretty much got every option and the 24 valve DOHC V6.Sep 13 23:04
DaemonFCFor $2,700 it could be a steal or something that looks like someone parked it in salt water.Sep 13 23:04
DaemonFCI'm not necessarily worried about 140,000 miles on it.Sep 13 23:05
DaemonFCProperly maintained, I've seen these things go past 250, still running fine.Sep 13 23:05
*oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrightsSep 13 23:07
DaemonFCMinceR,!20120814073514000.jpg?w=590Sep 13 23:10
DaemonFCThere's what it "should" look like.Sep 13 23:10
DaemonFCThat's a sharp little car.Sep 13 23:11
MinceR:)Sep 13 23:11
MinceRfords don't have a good reputation here, afaict :)Sep 13 23:11
DaemonFC!20120814073514000.jpg?w=750Sep 13 23:11
DaemonFCThey sell better cars here.Sep 13 23:11
MinceRicSep 13 23:12
MinceRare they made in different places or something?Sep 13 23:12
DaemonFCYeah. The ones they sell here are mostly assembled in Indiana and Michigan.Sep 13 23:16
DaemonFCThey like to assemble them close to where they sell them.Sep 13 23:16
MinceRand the ones they sell in europe?Sep 13 23:16
DaemonFCMy grandfather (on my dad's side) got a Euro Ford back in the 60s.Sep 13 23:17
DaemonFCI remember it was still in their back yard (didn't run) as late as the early 90s.Sep 13 23:17
MinceRso it ran for about 30 years?Sep 13 23:18
DaemonFCHe stopped driving after he had a stroke in 1981.Sep 13 23:19
DaemonFCIt was still operational at that point.Sep 13 23:19
MinceRicSep 13 23:20
DaemonFC 13 23:20 | Ford of Europe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia  [ ]Sep 13 23:20
DaemonFCAlmost none of those models are available here.Sep 13 23:20
DaemonFCWe have the Focus.Sep 13 23:20
DaemonFCI haven't seen any Fiesta's in a long time.Sep 13 23:20
DaemonFCThink they stopped making them here in the 90s.Sep 13 23:21
MinceRicSep 13 23:22
oiaohmDaemonFC: USA models Uk models and  Asia/perfic models have different names for the same car.Sep 13 23:22
MinceRthe articles for the models tend to mention the various local namesSep 13 23:23
DaemonFCYeah, but I don't see anything with a V6 or a V8 in their European line up.Sep 13 23:23
DaemonFCThey're probably unaffordable because of gas prices over there.Sep 13 23:23
DaemonFCI understand that most of Europe pays for a liter what we pay for a gallon.Sep 13 23:24
DaemonFCEngine displacement in liters, fuel sold in gallons.Sep 13 23:24
DaemonFCThat's the United States for you. :)Sep 13 23:24
MinceR:)Sep 13 23:24
MinceRnow that you mention it, it is strange that US uses liters for displacementSep 13 23:25
MinceRit's an SI unit :>Sep 13 23:25
DaemonFCIt gets stranger.Sep 13 23:25
oiaohmDaemonFC: no that is not it.   Ford V8 lack the handling.Sep 13 23:25
DaemonFCOn my 1995 Taurus SHO, you need two different sets of wrenches to work on it.Sep 13 23:25
DaemonFCWell, three if you count specialty nuts that only a dealer is supposed to have the tool for.Sep 13 23:26
DaemonFCThen there's Torx "security" nuts with a blob of epoxy in them.Sep 13 23:26
DaemonFCBut I've only ran into one of those.Sep 13 23:26
MinceR:>Sep 13 23:26
DaemonFCI stood there and chiseled the epoxy out of the head with a pick.Sep 13 23:27
DaemonFCTook me a couple of hours.Sep 13 23:27
DaemonFCThen I had to buy a Torx security bit set to get it loose.Sep 13 23:27
DaemonFCThey want to sell you a replacement air intake system if your MAF sensor goes bad.Sep 13 23:27
DaemonFCBut really, you usually don't even need a new MAF sensor.Sep 13 23:27
DaemonFCThey get dirty and most of the time you can fix them with a can of MAF sensor cleaner.Sep 13 23:28
DaemonFCI know because that's what happened with mine.Sep 13 23:28
DaemonFCIf the sensor is bad, it should trigger the check engine light.Sep 13 23:29
DaemonFCIf it's dirty, it will just send incorrect readings and your fuel mix will be wrong.Sep 13 23:29
DaemonFCIF your car starts running rough and guzzling gas, that's one of the suspects.Sep 13 23:29
DaemonFCWhile I had the air intake hose disconnected, I took a can of air intake cleaner and cleaned out the throttle body and the throttle plate.Sep 13 23:30
DaemonFCSome nasty stuff came out of there. :PSep 13 23:30
DaemonFCI actually went through two cans.Sep 13 23:31
oiaohmDaemonFC: MAF in some cars clean off when you put injector clean in engine.Sep 13 23:31
oiaohmDaemonFC: Yes if yours is one of that is simple than disasmbling the prick.Sep 13 23:31
DaemonFCBy the time I was halfway through the second can, the black stuff (dirt and carbon) stopped coming out.Sep 13 23:31
DaemonFCSo then I started the engine (had to fight it).Sep 13 23:31
DaemonFCI had someone else get in the car and press down on the accelerator a little while I sprayed the rest of the can in.Sep 13 23:32
DaemonFC:PSep 13 23:32
DaemonFCYou're really not supposed to do that, but I didn't feel like disassembling anything else.Sep 13 23:32
oiaohmDaemonFC:  Holden Monaro v8 gets sold in the EU.   Yet the GM USA made car using the same engine  does not.Sep 13 23:32
DaemonFCSo that got rid of my rough idle.Sep 13 23:32
oiaohmDaemonFC: USA designed cars in the v8 line serousally lack the handling for a lot of EU tight roads.Sep 13 23:33
DaemonFCFord warns not to clean that, because they have a special coating that's supposed to stop the buildup from happening.Sep 13 23:33
DaemonFCObviously, it doesn't. :PSep 13 23:33
DaemonFCI've heard other Ford owners and mechanics say to ignore that because the coating doesn't work.Sep 13 23:33
oiaohmDaemonFC: the coating does work kinda.Sep 13 23:34
DaemonFCI've kept the car going. It runs fine. It probably runs as well now as it did when it came off the lot in 1995.Sep 13 23:34
oiaohmDaemonFC: reason why it brushes off fairly simply is the coating.Sep 13 23:34
DaemonFCUnfortunately, the body is really starting to rot.Sep 13 23:34
DaemonFC:(Sep 13 23:35
DaemonFCNothing lasts forever. *sigh*Sep 13 23:35
oiaohmDaemonFC: I know the sensor you are talking about.   There is a funny way to clean the Ford MAF.   ultrasound it fitted.Sep 13 23:35
DaemonFCIf it wasn't for the rot, I'll bet it would be a good car for another 10 years.Sep 13 23:35
DaemonFCThe rot is spreading so quickly that I think it will be fit for the junkyard in 2-3, tops.Sep 13 23:35
DaemonFCThat's really sad. Well, it's sad to me anyway.Sep 13 23:36
oiaohmDaemonFC: Yep when the car runs rough enough it cleans it self.Sep 13 23:36
DaemonFCI really liked this car.Sep 13 23:36
DaemonFCoiaohm, The 1996 and newer do the self-clean on the MAF sensor.Sep 13 23:36
DaemonFCMine is a 1995.Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFCFord issued a TSB recommending a $300 procedure.Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFCAnd fuck them.Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 23:37
oiaohmDaemonFC: does the 1995 one have the coating.Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFCOf course they won't say a $5 can of spray will do the job.Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFCYeah.Sep 13 23:37
DaemonFCIt says on the throttle body that it has the coating and not to clean it.Sep 13 23:38
oiaohmDaemonFC:  Monaro holden had a strange strip of metal from the turbo charger to the back of the MAF in the 1994 range.Sep 13 23:38
oiaohmDaemonFC: those early coatings are only self clean if they have virbration.Sep 13 23:38
DaemonFCThe last thing I did was take off the air intake hose and spray it out with the garden hose.Sep 13 23:38
DaemonFCThen I vacuumed out he box.Sep 13 23:39
DaemonFCIt had some debris and dead leaves in it. Ewww. :)Sep 13 23:39
oiaohmThe cheap model holdens same MAF in 1994 requered you to take it out and give it a ultrasonic bath.Sep 13 23:40
DaemonFCIf it wasn't for the body rot, I could probably list this sucker at $2,500-$3,000.Sep 13 23:40
DaemonFCPeople would pay it. The SHO is still in demand, even the old ones with lots of miles.Sep 13 23:40
DaemonFCAs-is, I'll be lucky to get close to $1,000.Sep 13 23:40
oiaohmOr you worked out and got really lazy and used a medical ultrasonnd on the back of it.Sep 13 23:40
DaemonFCFrankly, it's worth more than that to me.Sep 13 23:40
DaemonFCI may just keep it around as a second car.Sep 13 23:40
DaemonFCI was really mad at my cousin a few years ago. She tried selling me a 1998 Pontiac Sunfire for $2,500.Sep 13 23:42
oiaohmDaemonFC: Monaro and other holdens sent to EU.   have race breed suspention fitted.   PS this does not equal set like brick suspention.Sep 13 23:42
DaemonFCI got down there and started it up, and the timing chain was so far gone you could tell just by listening.Sep 13 23:42
DaemonFCSo there's $1,000.Sep 13 23:42
DaemonFCThen the windshield had a gigantic crack.Sep 13 23:43
DaemonFCSo there's another $600.Sep 13 23:43
DaemonFCYeah, I'm strongly leaning towards following up on that 2002 SEL.Sep 13 23:44
DaemonFCThat could be a nice car.Sep 13 23:44
oiaohmDaemonFC: have you ever seen UK topgear reviewing a holden made car.Sep 13 23:44
DaemonFCIf it's in good shape, I could do $2,700 no problem.Sep 13 23:44
DaemonFCHolden is Chevrolet over there, isn't it?Sep 13 23:45
DaemonFCI think they market the Chevrolet Spark as the Holden Spark over there.Sep 13 23:45
DaemonFCI don't like Chevrolet.Sep 13 23:45
DaemonFCMy mom swears by them, as her car seems to need a thousand dollars worth of shit about every year.Sep 13 23:45
DaemonFCAnd it's 10 years newer than my Ford!Sep 13 23:45
oiaohmDaemonFC: same engines yes.   If they are build in Australia completley different chassie suspention and gearbox and computer.Sep 13 23:46
DaemonFCChevy has really gone to hell.Sep 13 23:46
MinceRthey're all GM.Sep 13 23:46
DaemonFCAbout the last decent car I think they made was the 1995 Lumina and Corsica.Sep 13 23:46
DaemonFCBoth had the 3.1 liter V6.Sep 13 23:46
oiaohmTotally agree Chevy does not know how to do a suspention system to save self.Sep 13 23:46
DaemonFCIt was standard on the Lumina, option on the Corsica.Sep 13 23:47
MinceR 13 23:47 | Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal  [ ]Sep 13 23:47
DaemonFCBut the Corsica weighed about 900 pounds less.Sep 13 23:47
DaemonFCSo that car was fucking FAST.Sep 13 23:47
oiaohmDaemonFC: holden v8 are almost idling at 100 km per hour.Sep 13 23:47
DaemonFCI'm serious. It had a better 0-60 than a Grand Prix.Sep 13 23:47
DaemonFCThey really outdid themselves on the Corsica with the V6 option.Sep 13 23:47
DaemonFCThey kind of have that "Grandma car" feel to them when you look at them.Sep 13 23:48
DaemonFCLooks like a boring little sedan, but driving it is like you're in a sports car.Sep 13 23:48
DaemonFCYou can still find 1995-96 models around for about $1,500 with low mileage.Sep 13 23:48
oiaohmDaemonFC: one thing chevy does know how to make is a done right good engine block.Sep 13 23:48
DaemonFCIf you need a car on the cheap, that's the one to get.Sep 13 23:48
DaemonFCThe engines are good.Sep 13 23:49
DaemonFCThey have sensor and transmission problems mostly.Sep 13 23:49
DaemonFCThe sensors are NOT cheap either.Sep 13 23:49
DaemonFCThe tire pressure sensors are like $200 each.Sep 13 23:49
DaemonFCThe O2 sensor is about a $500 job, and you can expect that to go somewhere between 100 and 150K.Sep 13 23:50
oiaohmDaemonFC: it gets funny.   Chevy east west engines(front wheel drive)  get found in holdens in north/south configuration.  rear wheel drive.Sep 13 23:50
DaemonFCThe transmission is the worst part on the newer Impalas.Sep 13 23:50
DaemonFCExpect a $3,000 rebuild at about 100K.Sep 13 23:50
DaemonFCIt'll start slipping, or you'll lose your Reverse gear.Sep 13 23:51
oiaohmDaemonFC: the reason why the Chevy round wheel drive fails is the engine block is too large does not leave enough space for strong enough gearbox.Sep 13 23:51
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 23:51
oiaohmronnt/frontSep 13 23:51
DaemonFCOf course, you'll lose Reverse with no warning, so you'll be parked at Walmart or something when it won't shift into that gear anymore. :)Sep 13 23:51
DaemonFCThe Taurus has the occasional wear item go out, but the parts are so cheap that you're not looking at a huge repair bill.Sep 13 23:52
DaemonFCI picked up a brand new water pump for like $45.Sep 13 23:52
DaemonFCI replaced the radiator with a new one for $250.Sep 13 23:52
oiaohmDaemonFC: holdens don't lose gears they lose gearsticks at times.Sep 13 23:53
DaemonFCNot aftermarket either, the original Ford part!Sep 13 23:53
DaemonFCHow awesome is that? :)Sep 13 23:53
DaemonFCThe newer Chevys are also impossible to work on.Sep 13 23:53
oiaohmDaemonFC: same with holdens.Sep 13 23:54
DaemonFCWhen my alternator on the Corsica went out, I disconnected the battery, unplugged a few wires, removed a bolt, and it came right off.Sep 13 23:54
DaemonFCI didn't have to pay a mechanic anything, I just replaced it myself.Sep 13 23:54
DaemonFCSame with the ignition coil packs.Sep 13 23:54
oiaohmSome holdens the only way to work on engine is under it.Sep 13 23:54
DaemonFCunbolt them, slap the new ones on, reconnect the spark plug wires.Sep 13 23:54
oiaohmYes they are designed that you take the stone tray off and attack the car from under it.Sep 13 23:55
DaemonFCThere's something to be said for simple repair jobs you can do in your own driveway.Sep 13 23:55
DaemonFCThat's really what held me to the "1995 or older" rule for so long.Sep 13 23:56
DaemonFCI could have bought a newer car, I just couldn't work on it myself.Sep 13 23:56
DaemonFCThat really takes the value down in my book.Sep 13 23:56
DaemonFCThe property manager at the apartment I was living in came out to bitch at me one day back in 2003.Sep 13 23:57
DaemonFCShe got in one morning and I had my car jacked up while I was doing a brake job.Sep 13 23:57
DaemonFCThey tend to frown on that.Sep 13 23:57
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 23:58
DaemonFCI told her that if she could hand me $200 more, I'd take it to the shop.Sep 13 23:58
oiaohmYou should hear them scream when you have a portable car host.Sep 13 23:58
oiaohmAnd the car is like 6 foot off the ground.Sep 13 23:58
DaemonFCI had let the brakes on that Corsica get so bad that when I stopped, they'd go "Clack clack clack!!!!"Sep 13 23:59
DaemonFCI drove around with it for about 5-6 months after it started doing that.Sep 13 23:59
DaemonFCLOLSep 13 23:59

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