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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: August 26th, 2013

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schestowitzMageia needs more promotionAug 26 00:04
schestowitzbblAug 26 00:04
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JimmyCarterhow about lavabit replacement that provides end-to-end message security using javascript cryptoAug 26 02:39
JimmyCartercould also have nacl client for people who dont trust browser/js implAug 26 02:41
JimmyCarterhttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mymail-crypt-for-gmail/jcaobjhdnlpmopmjhijplpjhlplfkhba?hl=en-USAug 26 03:23
TechrightsBot-trchrome.google.com | Chrome Web Store - Mymail-Crypt for Gmail™  [ http://ur1.ca/f83hk ]Aug 26 03:23
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qu1j0t3schestowitz: https://twitter.com/mikko/status/370436470852841472Aug 26 04:03
TechrightsBot-tr@mikko: So...Bradley Manning was sentenced to 35 years for shooting those Reuters journalists from the chopper. Did I get this right?Aug 26 04:03
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schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2985563Aug 26 08:36
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: The Press Has Been Exceptionally Cruel to Ubuntu EdgeAug 26 08:37
TechrightsBot-tr-> techrights.org | The Press Has Been Exceptionally Cruel to Ubuntu Edge | Techrights  [ http://ur1.ca/f7m2d ]Aug 26 08:37
schestowitz"This was a branch project that had little to do with Touch (which continues unabated). I think they're on the road, or we wouldn't be talking about them."Aug 26 08:37
schestowitz"Do you really think she would publish an article like that and not deny what's a reasonable supposition? The title is "Forced Disclosure". She's got details about people grubbing through her panties to give you an idea of how violated is right now. Groklaw has always been about truth and facts, not excuse making and rumors. If she had not received a national security letter, she would have told us. If she wanted to quit because she Aug 26 08:38
schestowitzwas tired, she would have said so instead of telling us she cried all night about being violated. She's known for years about people reading her mail, something different happened and it was not Lavabit." Aug 26 08:38
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2985592Aug 26 08:38
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: The #NSA ‘Violates’ Society Worldwide, But We Need to Fight It, Not Surrender to It http://techrights.org/2013/08/24/latest-nsa-violations/Aug 26 08:38
TechrightsBot-tr-> techrights.org | The NSA ‘Violates’ Society Worldwide, But We Need to Fight It, Not Surrender to It | Techrights  [ http://ur1.ca/f7zgo ]Aug 26 08:38
JimmyCarterhow prepared are you guys for the collapse of western civilization?Aug 26 08:41
iophkIt's not just the "Start Menu", it is Vista8 itself which is bad.  Lenovo would be much smarter to push Linux machines right now instead of spending their own resources helping M$ fix garbage.  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-22/lenovo-turns-to-a-startup-to-bring-the-start-menu-back-to-windows.htmlAug 26 08:41
TechrightsBot-trwww.bloomberg.com | Lenovo Turns to a Startup to Bring the Start Menu Back to Windows - Bloomberg  [ http://ur1.ca/f87ku ]Aug 26 08:41
JimmyCarteri think im gonna take a class at a shooting rangeAug 26 08:41
JimmyCarterand stocking up on suppliesAug 26 08:42
iophkjimmycarter: neither will help much against bandits.Aug 26 08:42
iophkIf it does a real collapse, there is no infrastructure to roll back to.Aug 26 08:42
JimmyCarteri keep an iphone with wikpedia on it and crank generator in nested faraday cagesAug 26 08:43
iophkWhen was the last time you saw a real draft horse?  And how far away is the nearest productive farm field?Aug 26 08:43
JimmyCarterpretty sure i can grow antibiotics and plant crops etc with wikiAug 26 08:43
iophkHaitiAug 26 08:43
JimmyCarterprobbly enough prudent people prepared supplies to avert mass cannibalism before revolutionary power rises? Aug 26 08:51
iophkthe supplies would have to last long enough to bootstrap a new infrastructure or restart the old one.Aug 26 08:52
iophkThen there is the problem of those that don't have access to stockpiles.  They will try to help themselves, with violence if necessary, to those stockpiles they hear about.Aug 26 08:52
JimmyCarterZombielandAug 26 08:55
iophkhttp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/food/2008-05-01-usda-food-supply_N.htmAug 26 08:58
TechrightsBot-trusatoday30.usatoday.com | Surplus U.S. food supplies dry up - USATODAY.com  [ http://ur1.ca/f87rr ]Aug 26 08:58
iophkOn top of that food is produced with petroleum.  It's for the work, the fertilizer, the transportation, etc.Aug 26 08:58
JimmyCarterwhat should we do?  increase r&d budgets and decrease military budgets?Aug 26 08:59
iophkand increase education, too.Aug 26 08:59
JimmyCartercoursera and khan academy solved educationAug 26 09:00
iophkI'm not convinced of that or of them.Aug 26 09:00
iophkThe K-12 is where the problems lie in the  USAug 26 09:00
iophkI though nginx already passed M$ http://www.zdnet.com/nginx-the-popular-open-source-web-server-goes-commercial-7000019826/Aug 26 09:01
TechrightsBot-trwww.zdnet.com | Nginx, the popular open-source Web server, goes commercial | ZDNet  [ http://ur1.ca/f87td ]Aug 26 09:01
JimmyCartermaybe revolutionary means of capital allocation to replace fractional reserve system with FDIC "insurance"Aug 26 09:01
iophkIn the last chart, nginx is ahead of M$ : http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2013/08/09/august-2013-web-server-survey.htmlAug 26 09:03
TechrightsBot-trnews.netcraft.com | August 2013 Web Server Survey | Netcraft  [ http://ur1.ca/f1yg7 ]Aug 26 09:03
iophkEarlier this year 'other' was ahead of M$, putting them temporarily in 4th place.Aug 26 09:04
iophknginx has been moving to open core for a while now, it looks like a problem.Aug 26 09:05
JimmyCarterthe market ponders if balmer = bsodAug 26 09:05
iophkBallmer is just hot air to distract from the bribery or other major problems.Aug 26 09:06
iophkhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324619504579027200320722342.htmlAug 26 09:06
TechrightsBot-tronline.wsj.com | Microsoft Bribe Probe Touches Russia, Pakistan Deals - WSJ.com  [ http://ur1.ca/f6b7f ]Aug 26 09:06
iophkRussia was supposed to go all Linux in its schools by 2010Aug 26 09:07
iophkI guess we now know how that was stopped.Aug 26 09:07
iophkhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7034828.stmAug 26 09:08
TechrightsBot-trnews.bbc.co.uk | BBC NEWS | Technology | Russian schools move to Linux  [ http://ur1.ca/f87wv ]Aug 26 09:08
iophkhttp://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/1029/Russia-to-drop-Microsoft-in-quest-for-national-operating-systemAug 26 09:08
TechrightsBot-trwww.csmonitor.com | Russia to drop Microsoft in quest for 'national' operating system - CSMonitor.com  [ http://ur1.ca/280ss ]Aug 26 09:08
iophk"Under laws passed a decade ago the security service already runs a vast program, known as SORM-2, which requires all Russian Internet providers to install special devices that enable the FSB to copy and store every byte of information – including e-mail and Internet activity – that passes through Russia-based servers.Aug 26 09:11
iophkMicrosoft was recently accused of assisting Russian authorities in selective prosecutions of nongovernmental organizations and independent journalists for alleged use of pirated software. "Aug 26 09:11
JimmyCarteryou commit 3 felonies a dayAug 26 09:12
iophkalso old - http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.fi/2010/12/putin-orders-russian-move-to-gnulinux.htmlAug 26 09:13
TechrightsBot-tropendotdotdot.blogspot.fi | open...: Putin Orders Russian Move to GNU/Linux  [ http://ur1.ca/f87zu ]Aug 26 09:13
iophkso that probably puts some of the bribery into contextAug 26 09:13
iophkI hope the other reasons are published soon.Aug 26 09:14
schestowitzhttp://www.computing.co.uk/ctg/news/2290502/microsoft-bribery-investigation-reaches-pakistan-and-russiaAug 26 09:53
schestowitzhttp://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/23/us-microsoft-ballmer-idUSBRE97M0K620130823Aug 26 09:53
TechrightsBot-trwww.computing.co.uk | Microsoft bribery investigation reaches Pakistan and Russia - 22 Aug 2013  - Computing News  [ http://ur1.ca/f88ja ]Aug 26 09:53
TechrightsBot-trwww.reuters.com | CEO Ballmer retires as Microsoft struggles to modernize | Reuters  [ http://ur1.ca/f88jb ]Aug 26 09:53
schestowitzhttp://www.zdnet.com/five-reasons-why-ballmer-needed-to-go-7000019809/Aug 26 09:53
TechrightsBot-trwww.zdnet.com | Five reasons why Ballmer needed to go | ZDNet  [ http://ur1.ca/f88je ]Aug 26 09:53
schestowitzcorruption not mentionedAug 26 09:53
schestowitzzdnet can;t discuss crimeAug 26 09:53
schestowitzCBS makes that off limitsAug 26 09:54
schestowitzjust talk about brands and pseudo competiton between brands like MSFT and AppleAug 26 09:54
MinceRgeekingsAug 26 10:04
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iophkhttp://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/08/ballmer-aftermath-part-1-future-of-microsoft-especially-in-mobile.htmlAug 26 12:55
iophkhttp://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/08/ballmer-aftermath-part-2-impact-to-nokia-especially-lumia-running-windows-phone.htmlAug 26 12:55
TechrightsBot-trcommunities-dominate.blogs.com | Communities Dominate Brands: Ballmer Aftermath Part 1 - Future of Microsoft, especially in mobile  [ http://ur1.ca/f8aqm ]Aug 26 12:55
TechrightsBot-trcommunities-dominate.blogs.com | Communities Dominate Brands: Ballmer Aftermath Part 2 - Impact to Nokia, especially Lumia running Windows Phone  [ http://ur1.ca/f8aqn ]Aug 26 12:55
iophkStill a bit of Gates whitewashing there, but interesting otherwise.Aug 26 13:12
schestowitzIn the US, some colleges cost a good deal of money but are good, whereas many others cost a good deal of money and are crap.Aug 26 13:32
schestowitzI see lots of fake colleges whose recruitment relies on immigration aspirationsAug 26 13:32
schestowitzSome in the Uk get shut downAug 26 13:33
MinceRhttps://sphotos-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1003361_631148493573686_1308349547_n.jpgAug 26 13:33
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2988495Aug 26 13:38
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com reshared: it works...Aug 26 13:38
schestowitz"= irony :)"Aug 26 13:38
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2988516Aug 26 13:40
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: 18 New Wallpapers Chosen for Ubuntu 13.10 (Updated) http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/08/ubuntu-13-10-winning-wallpapers-revealed #ubuntu #gnu #linuxAug 26 13:40
TechrightsBot-tr-> www.omgubuntu.co.uk | 18 New Wallpapers Chosen for Ubuntu 13.10 (Updated) | OMG! Ubuntu!  [ http://ur1.ca/f8bbz ]Aug 26 13:40
schestowitz"Always my favourite part of cycle, finding out which wallpapers they will use."Aug 26 13:40
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schestowitzhi DaemonFCAug 26 13:55
DaemonFChelloAug 26 13:55
schestowitzhttp://www.raptitude.com/2010/07/your-lifestyle-has-already-been-designed/Aug 26 14:16
TechrightsBot-trwww.raptitude.com | Your Lifestyle Has Already Been Designed  [ http://ur1.ca/f8bvv ]Aug 26 14:16
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schestowitzhttps://www.joindiaspora.com/posts/2989230Aug 26 14:24
TechrightsBot-trwww.joindiaspora.com | "it's difficult n...  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c0h ]Aug 26 14:24
schestowitz""it's difficult not to mourn the loss of the popular intellectual property law blog" http://opensource.com/weekly-news-wrap-Aug-23 "intellectual property"? Pardon?!"Aug 26 14:24
TechrightsBot-tropensource.com | Open source news this week: August 19 - 23, 2013 | opensource.com  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c0l ]Aug 26 14:24
schestowitz"#NSA used decryption technology to spy on the United Nations https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/26/surv-a26.html that's nice, showing contempt to all nations. #espionage"Aug 26 14:25
TechrightsBot-trwww.wsws.org | NSA used decryption technology to spy on the United Nations - World Socialist Web Site  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c0z ]Aug 26 14:25
schestowitzSnipers shoot at UN chemical inspectors in Syria – UN spokesman http://rt.com/news/un-chemical-oservers-shot-000/ at least we know where arms come from http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/10218288/CIA-running-arms-smuggling-team-in-Benghazi-when-consulate-was-attacked.htmlAug 26 14:25
TechrightsBot-trrt.com | Snipers shoot at UN chemical inspectors in Syria – UN spokesman — RT News  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c16 ]Aug 26 14:25
TechrightsBot-trwww.telegraph.co.uk | CIA 'running arms smuggling team in Benghazi when consulate was attacked' - Telegraph  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c18 ]Aug 26 14:25
iophkhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2290616/groklaw-was-the-canary-in-the-coal-mineAug 26 14:32
TechrightsBot-trwww.theinquirer.net | Groklaw was the canary in the coal mine- The Inquirer  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c5z ]Aug 26 14:32
iophkhttp://torrentfreak.com/finnish-court-censors-website-that-criticizes-censorship-130826/Aug 26 14:46
TechrightsBot-trtorrentfreak.com | Finnish Court Censors Website That Criticizes Censorship | TorrentFreak  [ http://ur1.ca/f8cf9 ]Aug 26 14:46
DaemonFChttp://www.vanityfair.com/business/2012/08/microsoft-lost-mojo-steve-ballmerAug 26 14:50
TechrightsBot-trwww.vanityfair.com | How Microsoft Lost Its Mojo: Steve Ballmer and Corporate America’s Most Spectacular Decline | Vanity Fair  [ http://ur1.ca/9uc0c ]Aug 26 14:50
DaemonFCLOLAug 26 14:50
DaemonFCBudget cuts making office supplies hard to find.Aug 26 14:51
iophkM$ didn't change with Ballmer.  He's kept up with what Gates started.Aug 26 14:51
iophkIf anything, the public has softened on M$.  In the 1990's anyone working in IT hated both Gates and his M$Aug 26 14:52
iophkproductsAug 26 14:52
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/nwlinux/status/372004594307448832Aug 26 15:43
TechrightsBot-tr@nwlinux: @schestowitz "Security and No Viruses" - ouch.Aug 26 15:43
schestowitzAh!Aug 26 15:43
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/duncan_shona/status/372008461476708352Aug 26 15:57
TechrightsBot-tr@duncan_shona: @schestowitz All reporters should be internationally protected, regardless of circumstances. Non vexatious reporters of course.Aug 26 15:57
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/372009529334321152Aug 26 16:02
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz: ‘Does the NSA have a listening post in Vienna?’  http://t.co/bAoMULUqrU not unthinkable.Aug 26 16:02
TechrightsBot-tr-> www.presseurop.eu | American Eavesdropping: ‘Does the NSA have a listening post in Vienna?’ | Presseurop.eu: European news, cartoons and press reviewsAug 26 16:02
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2989202Aug 26 16:18
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: There should be a rebellion by the 99% of the 1% against the 0.01%, which is looting the other top 0.99% (who at least have political power)Aug 26 16:18
schestowitz"Yes, there should be. The US is becoming more like Mexico or China."Aug 26 16:19
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schestowitziophk: Aug 26 16:36
schestowitzBill Gates, Super Rich Dude, Reformed Software Bad Guy and Current Global Do-GooderAug 26 16:36
schestowitzhttp://thevarguy.com/business-technology-solution-sales/microsoft-ceo-candidates-list-who-will-succeed-ballmerAug 26 16:36
TechrightsBot-trthevarguy.com | Microsoft CEO Candidates List: Who Will Succeed Ballmer? | Business Technology Solution Sales content from The VAR Guy  [ http://ur1.ca/f8ef4 ]Aug 26 16:36
schestowitzMore of the fawningAug 26 16:36
iophkfawning and whitewashingAug 26 16:46
iophkthey're trying to turn the fawning into a trentAug 26 16:46
iophktrendAug 26 16:46
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2989598Aug 26 16:52
TechrightsBot-tr@linux@joindiaspora.com: What is Linux? http://www.linuxis.org/ new site...Aug 26 16:52
TechrightsBot-tr-> www.linuxis.org | What is Linux?Aug 26 16:52
schestowitz"Very very nice! Good to see."Aug 26 16:52
*DaemonFC is feeling much better today.Aug 26 16:59
DaemonFCSpent most of Friday through last night throwing up, with fever, aches and pains, headaches, etc.Aug 26 17:00
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DaemonFCYoutube made a bunch of changes to break video download add-ons.Aug 26 17:45
DaemonFC:PAug 26 17:45
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iophkwww.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/us-saddam-hussein_n_3815109.htmlAug 26 18:45
iophkhttp://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/08/25/secret_cia_files_prove_america_helped_saddam_as_he_gassed_iranAug 26 18:46
TechrightsBot-trwww.foreignpolicy.com | Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran - By Shane Harris and Matthew M. Aid | Foreign Policy  [ http://ur1.ca/f8gua ]Aug 26 18:46
iophkhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2402174/CIA-helped-Saddam-Hussein-carry-chemical-weapons-attack-Iran-1988-Ronald-Reagan.htmlAug 26 18:48
TechrightsBot-trwww.dailymail.co.uk | CIA 'helped Saddam Hussein carry out chemical weapons attack on Iran' in 1988 under Ronald Reagan  | Mail Online  [ http://ur1.ca/f8gvx ]Aug 26 18:48
iophkNeeds verification still.Aug 26 18:49
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sebsebseb Aug 26 20:01
schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/brokenrib/status/372056866974466048Aug 26 20:09
TechrightsBot-tr@brokenrib: @schestowitz just what the elites would like. Conform to mediocrity for the betterment of productivity.Aug 26 20:09
schestowitziophk: yeah, dented it earlier todayAug 26 20:10
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2989598Aug 26 20:24
schestowitz"@dedik: supasache! wird total easy."Aug 26 20:24
iophk http://2013.eurobsdcon.org/eurobsdcon-2013/talks-and-schedule/Aug 26 20:34
TechrightsBot-tr2013.eurobsdcon.org | Talks and Schedule | EuroBSDcon 2013  [ http://ur1.ca/f8imd ]Aug 26 20:34
iophkmore detail : http://2013.eurobsdcon.org/eurobsdcon-2013/talks/Aug 26 20:38
TechrightsBot-tr2013.eurobsdcon.org | Conference Talks | EuroBSDcon 2013  [ http://ur1.ca/f8iom ]Aug 26 20:38
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DaemonFCComcast is raising their TV prices another 4%.Aug 26 21:17
DaemonFCTheir Digital Starter package will be over $70 a month, not counting equipment rental and HD and DVR fees.Aug 26 21:17
DaemonFCYikes!Aug 26 21:17
DaemonFCAs recently as 2004, I had basically that level of service, without HD, or a DVR, or the need for a cable box.Aug 26 21:18
DaemonFCIt only cost like $37 a month.Aug 26 21:18
DaemonFCBring back decrambled cable at $37 a month, and VCRs!Aug 26 21:18
DaemonFC:)Aug 26 21:18
DaemonFCThis must be why they're now losing roughly 2 million customers each year.Aug 26 21:19
DaemonFCEach time they lose another round of customers, they jack up the price on the people who are left.Aug 26 21:19
DaemonFCA lot of households are starting to not only get rid of cable, but to go without a TV as well.Aug 26 21:20
DaemonFCNielson noticed that in the last two years, roughly 600,000 households got rid of all of their TV sets.Aug 26 21:20
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microhardHas anyone been watching events in Syria?Aug 26 21:34
sebsebsebmicrohard: not recently noAug 26 21:36
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sebsebseb Aug 26 21:57
schestowitzmicrohard: noAug 26 22:03
schestowitzmicrohard: tell usAug 26 22:03
schestowitzI watched a bitAug 26 22:03
schestowitzmostly rebuttals to the "chomical weapons" propagandaAug 26 22:03
schestowitzI saw some reports citing a French org saying the US is deploying hundreds of commandosAug 26 22:03
schestowitzand some carrier approaching SyriaAug 26 22:03
schestowitzbut no official word, I can't find out about it in British state media, it would like like voluntarily tuning in to the propaganda ministry, my brain can't take thatAug 26 22:04
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2989597Aug 26 22:10
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: What is Linux? http://www.linuxis.org/ new site... #gnu #linuxAug 26 22:10
TechrightsBot-tr-> www.linuxis.org | What is Linux?Aug 26 22:10
schestowitz"VS"Aug 26 22:10
schestowitz"in Debian screenshot there's no simple "Install alongside Windows" option."Aug 26 22:10
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/2989531Aug 26 22:10
TechrightsBot-tr@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Groklaw was the canary in the coal mine http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2290616/groklaw-was-the-canary-in-the-coal-mine #groklaw #freedom #justiceAug 26 22:10
TechrightsBot-tr-> www.theinquirer.net | Groklaw was the canary in the coal mine- The Inquirer  [ http://ur1.ca/f8c5z ]Aug 26 22:10
schestowitz"Yes, it's a bad sign."Aug 26 22:10
microhardprobably want another puppet regime installed?Aug 26 22:10
schestowitzmaybe, but..Aug 26 22:11
schestowitzwhat's the latest?Aug 26 22:11
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microhardprobably want another puppet regime installed?Aug 26 22:10
schestowitzmaybe, but..Aug 26 22:11
schestowitzwhat's the latest?Aug 26 22:11
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*Now talking on #techrightsAug 26 23:13
*Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovellAug 26 23:13
*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012Aug 26 23:13
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*Now talking on #techrightsAug 26 23:13
*Topic for #techrights is: TechRights.org | Channel #techrights for http://TechRights.org :: please also join channels #boycottnovell-social #techbytes and #boycottnovellAug 26 23:13
*Topic for #techrights set by schestowitz!~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz at Sat Jun 9 18:16:19 2012Aug 26 23:13
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DaemonFCThe brakes are out on my car....again.Aug 26 23:25
*DaemonFC wonders if he'd make it to the shop down the street if he poured a bunch of brake fluid in.Aug 26 23:25
DaemonFCI've got a drip leak.Aug 26 23:25
DaemonFChttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2205680/Patrick-Stewarts-battle-Time-Warner-Cable-saps-live.htmlAug 26 23:27
TechrightsBot-trwww.dailymail.co.uk | Patrick Stewart's battle with Time Warner Cable saps him of 'the will to live'  | Mail Online  [ http://ur1.ca/f8l2c ]Aug 26 23:27
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