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IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: June 28th, 2015-July 4th, 2015

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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     #ManjaroLinux Cinnamon 0.8.13 OfficiallyJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines                 Released with the #Cinnamon 2.6 DesktopJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/23KSVociCs (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2pyJun 28 03:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Manjaro Linux Cinnamon 0.8.13 Officially Released with the Cinnamon 2.6 Desktop - SoftpediaJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     24-hours with the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition: I’mJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines                 going to need some time to adjustJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/czXo25U0a5 (thenextweb.com) #linuxJun 28 03:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-thenextweb.com | 24 hours with the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu EditionJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2pzJun 28 03:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu Touch to Get a New Thumbnailer andJun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines                 WPA-Enterprise Support http://t.co/bY4FmiYFA7Jun 28 03:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Ubuntu Touch to Get a New Thumbnailer and WPA-Enterprise Support - SoftpediaJun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines                 (linux.softpedia.com)Jun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2r8Jun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Gets Chromium 43,Jun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines                 Snappy Images Coming SoonJun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/yJZswAnDya (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 03:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Gets Chromium 43, Snappy Images Coming Soon - SoftpediaJun 28 03:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2r9Jun 28 03:24
*TweetTuxMachines @sizeof favourited '24-hours with the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition: I’m...'Jun 28 03:30
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Italian makers unveil the Felfil, an openJun 28 04:00
TweetTuxMachines                 source 3d printing filament extruderJun 28 04:00
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/hiF8JQRENn (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 04:00
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2z9Jun 28 04:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Italian makers unveil the Felfil, an open source 3d printing filament extruder | Tux MachinesJun 28 04:00
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Will I Have the Latest Software Versions inJun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines                 Ubuntu with Snappy? http://t.co/YNMO6ijTJ9Jun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my3n3Jun 28 05:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Will I Have the Latest Software Versions in Ubuntu with Snappy? | Tux MachinesJun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Will I Have the Latest Software Versions inJun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines                 Ubuntu with Snappy? http://t.co/EobeuVTb4oJun 28 05:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Will I Have the Latest Software Versions in Ubuntu with Snappy? - SoftpediaJun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my3n4Jun 28 05:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Distance Is The Racing Game I Never Knew IJun 28 05:41
TweetTuxMachines                 Wanted On Linux, Some Thoughts & VideoJun 28 05:41
TweetTuxMachines                 https://t.co/GPCEQeGE5k (www.gamingonlinux.com)Jun 28 05:41
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my3n5Jun 28 05:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gamingonlinux.com | Distance Is The Racing Game I Never Knew I Wanted On Linux, Some Thoughts & Video | GamingOnLinuxJun 28 05:41
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XRevan86https://joindiaspora.com/posts/ac05ef00f969013238b83a81ad033604Jun 28 06:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-joindiaspora.com | Even #pravda joke... [ http://ur1.ca/my430 ]Jun 28 06:54
XRevan86schestowitz: pravda.ru != PravdaJun 28 06:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 PerformanceJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines                 Improvements http://t.co/3phVwXEKiVJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jun 28 07:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 Performance Improvements - PhoronixJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my459Jun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux 4.2 Will Bring LIBNVDIMM Support ForJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines                 Non-Volatile Memory Devices Jun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/LIRTXSr51k (www.phoronix.com)Jun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my45aJun 28 07:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Linux 4.2 Will Bring LIBNVDIMM Support For Non-Volatile Memory Devices - PhoronixJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 PerformanceJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines                 Improvements http://t.co/eCg8Je5bCiJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 07:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 Performance Improvements | Tux MachinesJun 28 07:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my45bJun 28 07:06
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oiaohmhttp://www.itworld.com/article/2940478/linux/windows-versus-linux-for-businesses.html  This is getting interestingJun 28 08:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.itworld.com | Windows versus Linux for businesses | ITworld [ http://ur1.ca/my4hz ]Jun 28 08:06
cubexyzthose articles just aren't very goodJun 28 08:09
cubexyzit's clear to me that the current software churn is just a waste of timeJun 28 08:12
cubexyzmore elaborate GUIs, operating systems that end of life after a few years, and closed systems... well it's not very hard to improve on thatJun 28 08:14
cubexyzplanned obsolescenceJun 28 08:15
cubexyzonce microsoft added activation to windows, I was out of thereJun 28 08:18
cubexyzit's the pre-loads that get to me the most thoughJun 28 08:19
cubexyzthat's why I rarely ever go to a computer store nowJun 28 08:20
cubexyzI find it hysterical how we use to do everything imaginable in 64 kb while today you have ot learn 1000 poorly designed methods in some #28one of n#29 language that compiles to many MB's worth of sheer nonsense. The lossy compressed screenshot from the 70's easily takes 200 kb haha Jun 28 08:34
oiaohmcubexyz: what is interesting is the fact its being talked about as Linux being an option.Jun 28 08:54
cubexyzyou do recall that businesses used to use PDP-11s?Jun 28 08:54
cubexyzI have a list of the different institutions... it's interesting readingJun 28 08:55
cubexyza lot of medical places, research centres and of course academiaJun 28 08:56
oiaohmWhat do you mean used.   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/Jun 28 08:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.co.uk | Nuke plants to rely on PDP-11 code UNTIL 2050! • The Register [ http://ur1.ca/edeyd ]Jun 28 08:56
oiaohmSome of those horible old designs are very tough.Jun 28 08:57
cubexyzyou've heard of the DOD? :)Jun 28 08:59
cubexyzthem tooJun 28 08:59
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/kaatje36/status/615094259159597060Jun 28 09:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@kaatje36: @schestowitz Same happened rather recently to Malawi :(Jun 28 09:00
cubexyzI made a point of tracking down as much of the Usenix tapes as I couldJun 28 09:00
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/RoodJet/status/615098967521652736Jun 28 09:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@RoodJet: The 'West' can't leave it be when others have succes. Why the hell they break everything down with their arrogance. https://t.co/yLCOz0f0nLJun 28 09:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #IMF and USA set to ruin #Ghana https://t.co/QZrTom9r2P classic enslavement through debt. #africa #imperialism #colonisationJun 28 09:00
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/angrymofo/status/615101183636586496Jun 28 09:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@angrymofo: @schestowitz How many attacking IP's and what type of DDOS ? iptables can stop layer7 but depends on how many ip's to block. Too many = slowJun 28 09:00
cubexyzoiaohm, a lot of it was typesetting and text manipulation, not too surprisingJun 28 09:00
r_schestowitztoo slow to blockJun 28 09:00
cubexyza lot of what is considered standard now was part of an aggregation process that started long agoJun 28 09:01
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/angrymofo/status/615101776400781312Jun 28 09:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@angrymofo: @schestowitz I held off >10k IP's for weeks once using iptables and a rolling db of the last 10k bad IP's. User agent enabled ID of bad IP'sJun 28 09:02
r_schestowitzthat's like blocking the whole of AWSJun 28 09:02
cubexyzgraphing utilties, and there's still tons of source code I haven't looked at yetJun 28 09:02
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/haniefhaider/status/615106432334209024Jun 28 09:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@haniefhaider: #Ghana had the best public utility in #Africa... until the IMF arrived... https://t.co/zxAT0Y6F1r. #imperialism #Greece via @schestowitzJun 28 09:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.craigmurray.org.uk | Craig Murray » Blog Archive » IMF and USA set to ruin GhanaJun 28 09:03
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/615133790201982976Jun 28 09:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz We'd all be better off if the Fortune 500 blacklisted Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and Oracle.Jun 28 09:05
cubexyzthere was big talk about Linux back in 2000Jun 28 09:07
cubexyzprobably even before thatJun 28 09:07
oiaohmI got into Linux from BSD in 1995Jun 28 09:07
MinceRi got into GNU/Linux from winblows somewhen around 2000Jun 28 09:08
oiaohmSo there was a lot of write up from 1995 to 2002 then it died down.Jun 28 09:08
cubexyz2015 and it's still a novelty to consider Linux for business use? Surely we are passed that pointJun 28 09:08
cubexyzquasar has been used for point of sale for quite a while nowJun 28 09:09
cubexyzI think the DOD even has their own distro nowJun 28 09:10
oiaohmIssue is basic. Jun 28 09:11
cubexyzhttp://spi.dod.mil/LPS-Public_for_DoD.htm Jun 28 09:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-spi.dod.mil | LPS-Public [ http://ur1.ca/my4x4 ]Jun 28 09:11
oiaohmReality in 2000 it was believe that the graphics issues on Linux would be fixed.Jun 28 09:11
oiaohmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_GLX cubexyz this project was seen that it would lead to solving the issues.Jun 28 09:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Utah GLX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJun 28 09:14
oiaohmThe hard reality is while Linux desktop envornement fails based security requirements its progress was always limited.Jun 28 09:14
cubexyzI know that in the late 80s U of Waterloo was running SunOS in the computer labJun 28 09:15
cubexyzso we've had the *nix stuff working for some timeJun 28 09:15
cubexyzoiaohm, that GLX stuff looks quite oldJun 28 09:16
oiaohmcubexyz: question do you use NVIDIA drivers under Linux.Jun 28 09:17
cubexyzmy server doesJun 28 09:17
oiaohmIf you do you are using code from Utah GLXJun 28 09:17
cubexyzsure, glxgears Jun 28 09:17
cubexyzbut it's mainly just a web server :)Jun 28 09:18
oiaohmAt that point in history Nvidia developers were willing to work with everyone else.Jun 28 09:18
cubexyzI have a bunch of different video chipsets hereJun 28 09:18
oiaohmThat ends 2002Jun 28 09:18
oiaohmcubexyz: do you not notice to use Nvidia you load glx not dri.Jun 28 09:19
oiaohmThere are complains from x.org for having to support historic interfaces so Nvidia drivers works.Jun 28 09:20
cubexyzoiaohm, I think on some of my computers it loads both dri and glxJun 28 09:21
cubexyzon the nvidia one it's just glx Jun 28 09:21
cubexyzit's been a while since I've looked at xfree86 stuffJun 28 09:21
oiaohmnewer driver design use driJun 28 09:22
cubexyzin the module section it seems to load both on most of my boxesJun 28 09:22
oiaohmglx interface forwarding to dri has to be provided for old programs.Jun 28 09:23
cubexyzold programs such as...?Jun 28 09:24
oiaohmhttp://us.download.nvidia.com/solaris/180.51/README/chapter-03.htmlJun 28 09:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-us.download.nvidia.com | Chapter 3. Configuring X for the NVIDIA Driver [ http://ur1.ca/my50t ]Jun 28 09:25
oiaohmBut the forward is GLcore module.Jun 28 09:25
oiaohmNot the GLX module.Jun 28 09:25
oiaohmA lot of people are not aware of how old of code the Nvidia binary blob forks off at.Jun 28 09:26
oiaohmOf course when the Nvidia guys pull up stumps from Utah GLX so did ATI and every other major vendor.Jun 28 09:27
oiaohmThen 8 years from 2002 to 2010 does graphics in Linux go back to not being a major interest to major video card makers.Jun 28 09:27
oiaohmcubexyz: please note its interesting how little difference there is in X.org configuration for Nvidia between Linux, bsd and SolarisJun 28 09:28
cubexyzI definitely remember running quake and descent on Linux many moons agoJun 28 09:29
cubexyzI honestly can't recall any problems with the videoJun 28 09:29
cubexyzran most of the Loki games as wellJun 28 09:29
oiaohmproblem is not making stuff run cubexyzJun 28 09:29
oiaohmIts the security sides.Jun 28 09:29
oiaohmLike implementing Secure Attention Key to make sure keyboard logins are valid.Jun 28 09:30
cubexyzand yet the DOD has a distro :)Jun 28 09:30
oiaohmTrue but that distrobution does not run Nvidia.Jun 28 09:31
MinceRwhat use is SAK if you're not at the console?Jun 28 09:33
MinceRand what use is pretending you're secure when someone is at the console, so has physical access to the computer?Jun 28 09:33
oiaohmMinceR: SAK is ment to work for console and graphical.Jun 28 09:33
oiaohmSAK is a preventive method to applications creating fake login screens.Jun 28 09:33
cubexyzcan't they just add some biometric security thing?Jun 28 09:33
MinceRi meant having access to a display and keyboard plugged directly into the computerJun 28 09:34
cubexyzkeyboard doesn't work until you press you thumb or do a retina scan...Jun 28 09:34
MinceRbiometric authentication is mostly security theater.Jun 28 09:34
MinceRespecially fingerprint-basedJun 28 09:34
oiaohmEven when you have physical access a program can attempt to display a fake login screen to get login details to go higher.Jun 28 09:34
oiaohmThis is preventing a class of internal attack.Jun 28 09:34
oiaohmfingerprint scaners are worthless because fingerprints are too simple to get and replicate.Jun 28 09:35
MinceRindeedJun 28 09:35
oiaohmBlood vessel scanners are in fact safer.Jun 28 09:36
cubexyzput the computers in a secure areaJun 28 09:36
cubexyzseems like a simple problem to solveJun 28 09:36
oiaohmSomething to remember about biometrics if the subject does not have to be alive for them to work  attackers might just kill subject.Jun 28 09:36
oiaohmcubexyz: please note I said internal attack.Jun 28 09:36
oiaohmThis is where sometrust to a limit amount to access the computer is attempting to get higher access.Jun 28 09:37
MinceRwhat happens if you press [Ctrl+]Alt+SysRq+k on nvidia?Jun 28 09:38
cubexyzright, there were some login shenanigans on early unixJun 28 09:38
cubexyzbut obviously the problems weren't that badJun 28 09:38
oiaohmMinceR: nothing good.   Same issue happens like when you switch to console and back again with nvidia.   The Nvidia closed soruce driver locks up.Jun 28 09:38
cubexyzoiaohm, businesses were running stuff on msdos and it definitely wasn't secure at all :)Jun 28 09:40
cubexyzfloppies had virusesJun 28 09:40
MinceRbusinesses were running stuff on windows and that isn't secure eitherJun 28 09:40
cubexyzit's not like we ever had super-duper securityJun 28 09:40
oiaohmRecent years Nvidia has got better but 2010 and before switching from Framebuffer and back was more fatel.Jun 28 09:40
MinceRwe like the illusion of super-duper security, thoughJun 28 09:40
oiaohmThis is a checklist of security features.Jun 28 09:41
oiaohmWindows techically has working SAK.Jun 28 09:41
MinceRi mostly had luck with nvidiaJun 28 09:41
MinceRexcept when hibernating or suspendingJun 28 09:41
oiaohmMinceR: notice the except.Jun 28 09:41
oiaohmBusiness want hibernating and suspending for laptops on the move.Jun 28 09:41
MinceRswitching to text console and back tended to workJun 28 09:41
MinceRoiaohm: at my last job, the IT department told me to not use hibernate or suspend on windows because it was a miracle if it worked.Jun 28 09:42
cubexyzwhy not just shutdown when you need to?Jun 28 09:42
cubexyzit's a laptop after allJun 28 09:42
MinceR(i still used it because i was lazy, and it tended to work)Jun 28 09:42
MinceRalso, why do business laptops have nvidia GPU?Jun 28 09:43
oiaohmMinceR: windows has about a 1 in 10 device failure rate with hibernate or suspend.Jun 28 09:43
MinceRthe ones i saw had intel.Jun 28 09:43
oiaohmMinceR: what has Linux performance been with Intel hardware.Jun 28 09:43
MinceRi guess in this case i was lucky with windows (as opposed to the usual case)Jun 28 09:43
oiaohmDead dog right MinceRJun 28 09:43
oiaohmUntil recently.Jun 28 09:43
MinceRdepends on the use caseJun 28 09:43
MinceRmost business use cases don't need a powerful GPU.Jun 28 09:44
cubexyzsounds crappy all round then re: suspendingJun 28 09:44
oiaohmbusiness cases don't need a higher powerful GPU is true but needing one that works a bit.Jun 28 09:44
MinceRalso, i could buy a ThinkPad with an intel GPU that's more powerful than my quadro fx 2700m :>Jun 28 09:44
oiaohmcubexyz: Linux suspend issue was a 1 in 3.Jun 28 09:45
MinceRall the intel GPUs i had worked reliably, including the GMA 900 in my netbook.Jun 28 09:45
oiaohmcubexyz: but that si getting better.Jun 28 09:45
cubexyzoiaohm, I've suspending over 100 times on my HPJun 28 09:45
cubexyzsuspendedJun 28 09:45
MinceRand on those suspend almost always worksJun 28 09:45
oiaohmNote the terible I am talking about is 2010 and before.Jun 28 09:45
oiaohmWe have seen some major changes since then.Jun 28 09:46
cubexyz273 days uptime tooJun 28 09:46
cubexyzwhich isn't badJun 28 09:46
MinceR(6 months or more with ~2 daily suspends without issue)Jun 28 09:46
MinceRicJun 28 09:46
cubexyzgood enough I'd sayJun 28 09:46
oiaohmLinux being terible from 2002 to 2010 makes lot of business edgy touching Linux.Jun 28 09:46
cubexyzMinceR, the wall wart had a loose connection, otherwise the uptime would have been longerJun 28 09:47
MinceRi think i had that netbook before 2010Jun 28 09:47
MinceRfunny thing is, windows was always worseJun 28 09:47
oiaohmReally I am look forward to Wayland.Jun 28 09:48
MinceRi'm not a fan but i have a plan to salvage itJun 28 09:48
MinceRi think i can extend kde's implementation with the missing features and modularityJun 28 09:48
oiaohmOnce that is in place a lot of checkboxes on the security list can mark it.Jun 28 09:48
MinceRalso, maybe they'll get a clue and add the missing features to the protocolJun 28 09:49
oiaohmWayland protocol is way more complete than X11 was/is.Jun 28 09:49
MinceRwhere's pointer grap and pointer warp?Jun 28 09:49
cubexyzI think motif has that :)Jun 28 09:51
cubexyzumm, grab at leastJun 28 09:51
MinceRmotif works on x11, not waylandJun 28 09:52
oiaohmpointer grap and warp is being worked on under LibinputJun 28 09:52
MinceRthat sounds like a hackJun 28 09:52
MinceRwhy isn't it in the protocol?Jun 28 09:52
oiaohmNopJun 28 09:52
cubexyzwhich distros use wayland?Jun 28 09:53
cubexyzUbuntu I supposeJun 28 09:54
oiaohmWayland protocol is not about input or output that much at all MinceR.   But device access.Jun 28 09:55
MinceRicJun 28 09:55
oiaohmLike wayland does not define how direct rendering of opengl works.Jun 28 09:55
MinceRwhat devices? just the GPU or also input devices?Jun 28 09:55
oiaohmWith GPU it just wants to know what buffers  application wants displayed and where.   So most of what the GPU device does wayland has no interest in.   With input what devices the user application should see/not see.Jun 28 09:57
oiaohmCalcution of input corrections and the like under wayland are the application side.Jun 28 09:57
oiaohmThis is a lot more compadible with giving applications timesilces and them being able to process everything they need even if the wayland compositor gets no cpu time.Jun 28 09:58
MinceRwho decides which application gets input?Jun 28 09:58
XRevan86cubexyz: Ubuntu Next uses Mir.Jun 28 09:59
MinceRi thought they gave up on mir alreadyJun 28 10:00
oiaohmSomething to remember a wayland application can run without a compositor.   Techically the top application what you normally expect to be the compositor decides what applications are able to see input.Jun 28 10:00
XRevan86MinceR: Nope, still Mir.Jun 28 10:01
XRevan86Mir, trud, mai :).Jun 28 10:01
oiaohmUbuntu is not even willing to give up on Mir even after Intel pulled support.Jun 28 10:01
oiaohmMinceR:  you also have to remeber libinput is planed to be shared between wayland and x.org.   So why implement a stack of things twice.Jun 28 10:03
oiaohmEven Mir is planing on using libinput.Jun 28 10:03
XRevan86oiaohm: It already works on X.org and breaks by touchpad :).Jun 28 10:03
oiaohmits the one place where all the graphical systems feature cross.Jun 28 10:03
oiaohmXRevan86: libinput fixes some touchpads with x.org as well.Jun 28 10:04
oiaohmlibinput has been a real mixed bag Jun 28 10:04
XRevan86Well, I have a plain synaptics.Jun 28 10:04
XRevan86so I'm in a majority hereJun 28 10:04
oiaohmTurns out some of the synaptics have also had issues that the libinput configuration allows to be fixed as well.  XRevan86 this is why I say mixed bag.Jun 28 10:07
MinceRhopefully it will stabilize eventuallyJun 28 10:07
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Node.js and Docker realignedJun 28 10:20
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/vKRTjFBZ6i (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 10:20
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my5h2Jun 28 10:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Node.js and Docker realigned | Tux MachinesJun 28 10:20
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     New ARM SoCs & Boards Supported By The LinuxJun 28 10:20
TweetTuxMachines                 4.2 Kernel http://t.co/sPilGmjTHuJun 28 10:20
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 10:20
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my5h3Jun 28 10:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | New ARM SoCs & Boards Supported By The Linux 4.2 Kernel | Tux MachinesJun 28 10:20
oiaohmlibinput is a case of you cannot make a omlet without breaking a few eggs.   The old synaptics driver also had a long list of different crashes and disasters.Jun 28 10:23
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Node.js and Docker realignedJun 28 12:15
TweetTuxMachines retweeted by    http://t.co/vKRTjFBZ6i (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 12:15
TweetTuxMachines @ameanmbot      Jun 28 12:15
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6dpJun 28 12:15
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Android Leftovers http://t.co/bzl3xAAn8gJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6etJun 28 12:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux MachinesJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Gaming http://t.co/shOWwELiS3Jun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6euJun 28 12:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Gaming | Tux MachinesJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's howtos http://t.co/qncwWpmFJZJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6ewJun 28 12:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux MachinesJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Software http://t.co/QdcSvVv2FRJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 12:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Software | Tux MachinesJun 28 12:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6exJun 28 12:19
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Links 28/6/2015: Manjaro Linux Cinnamon 0.8.13,Jun 28 13:07
TweetTuxMachines                 VectorLinux 7.1 http://t.co/DvYbIiqG3zJun 28 13:07
TweetTuxMachines                 (techrights.org)Jun 28 13:07
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6rvJun 28 13:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Links 28/6/2015: Manjaro Linux Cinnamon 0.8.13, VectorLinux 7.1 | TechrightsJun 28 13:07
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/kUnXHOGFpCJun 28 13:08
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 13:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJun 28 13:08
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6rwJun 28 13:08
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     New ARM SoCs & Boards Supported By The LinuxJun 28 13:08
TweetTuxMachines                 4.2 Kernel http://t.co/rgGpXeWJhWJun 28 13:08
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jun 28 13:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | New ARM SoCs & Boards Supported By The Linux 4.2 Kernel - PhoronixJun 28 13:08
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my6rxJun 28 13:08
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's leftovers http://t.co/h3OFyUIoLGJun 28 17:26
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 17:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux MachinesJun 28 17:26
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my8qrJun 28 17:26
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/VcR9oO41QPJun 28 17:26
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 17:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJun 28 17:26
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my8qsJun 28 17:26
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Samsung Galaxy S6 -- Android at its finestJun 28 19:06
TweetTuxMachines                 [Review] http://t.co/4Sy49pHAIiJun 28 19:06
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 19:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Samsung Galaxy S6 -- Android at its finest [Review] | Tux MachinesJun 28 19:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my9deJun 28 19:06
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     NVIDIA SHIELD ANDROID TV REVIEWJun 28 19:06
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/jCvN9p68xM (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 19:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my9dkJun 28 19:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | NVIDIA SHIELD ANDROID TV REVIEW | Tux MachinesJun 28 19:06
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Buying a Meizu MX4 with Android to Flash UbuntuJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines                 Is Not a Good Idea http://t.co/xjwD0QgOQxJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 22:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Buying a Meizu MX4 with Android to Flash Ubuntu Is Not a Good Idea | Tux MachinesJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myaogJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Official Linux Mint 17.2 "Rafaela" ISO ImagesJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines                 Are Out http://t.co/vrd4oQNDvUJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myaoiJun 28 22:09
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Official Linux Mint 17.2 "Rafaela" ISO Images Are Out | Tux MachinesJun 28 22:09
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Samsung Galaxy S6 -- Android at its finestJun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines                 [Review] http://t.co/8zdMzgtFsL (betanews.com)Jun 28 22:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-betanews.com | Samsung Galaxy S6 -- Android at its finest [Review]Jun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines                 "Highly recommended."Jun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myauoJun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     NVIDIA SHIELD ANDROID TV REVIEWJun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/HSSg9YVIxMJun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.androidauthority.com)Jun 28 22:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.androidauthority.com | NVIDIA Shield Android TV review - Android AuthorityJun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myaupJun 28 22:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Buying a Meizu MX4 with Android to Flash UbuntuJun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines                 Is Not a Good Idea http://t.co/1FRY4yq6LqJun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 22:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Buying a Meizu MX4 with Android to Flash Ubuntu Is Not a Good Idea - SoftpediaJun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myauqJun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Official Linux Mint 17.2 "Rafaela" ISO ImagesJun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines                 Are Out http://t.co/L7d5F8dOV1Jun 28 22:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Official Linux Mint 17.2 "Rafaela" ISO Images Are Out - SoftpediaJun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines                 (linux.softpedia.com)Jun 28 22:35
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myaurJun 28 22:35
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oiaohmI knew there was something I forgot there is one thing Wayland is having a insane time implementing.   Its something that soulds so simple copy paste.Jun 28 23:36
oiaohmsould/soundsJun 28 23:37
cubexyzno distro seems to use wayland Jun 28 23:37
oiaohmFedora does on compadible systems for login screen.Jun 28 23:38
oiaohmDebian has wayland in main repository as optional.Jun 28 23:39
oiaohmcubexyz: GDM and a few other login managers can operately fully just using wayland.   So X11 is only kicked up in the user session.Jun 28 23:41
oiaohmSo the change over to wayland has started cubexyz just slow and carefully.Jun 28 23:41
oiaohmcubexyz: also you have to remember sailfish OS uses wayland at core for everything.Jun 28 23:43
oiaohmsailfish has no xwayland.Jun 28 23:44
cubexyzI remember basic linux had xvesa but I don't think any other distro uses thatJun 28 23:46
oiaohmDebian has had xvesaJun 28 23:48
oiaohmKnoppix discs loved using it.Jun 28 23:48
cubexyzI wanted to study the history of the X Window SystemJun 28 23:49
cubexyzgot some X10R4 codeJun 28 23:49
cubexyzxwm.c was so tinyJun 28 23:50
cubexyzplayed around with the idea of porting xwm.c but I didn't get too farJun 28 23:50
oiaohmYou would notJun 28 23:51
oiaohma lot of the apis that early xwm used are gone.Jun 28 23:51
oiaohmBecause they were broken so badly its not funny.Jun 28 23:51
cubexyzactually I did compile xwm.c but it was on quasijarus and I couldn't run itJun 28 23:52
cubexyzso I do have the early APIsJun 28 23:53
oiaohmNot exactly do you know the method of removing X11 API.Jun 28 23:53
oiaohmBreak the API and see if anyone complains in 3 years.Jun 28 23:53
oiaohmThen delete it.Jun 28 23:53
oiaohmSo some of those old programs will build but the API ABI side does not work.Jun 28 23:54
cubexyzI was interested in seeing now small a window manager could be in terms of lines of code but still be usableJun 28 23:54
oiaohmever seen ratposion cubexyzJun 28 23:55
cubexyzyesJun 28 23:55
oiaohmThat is about as small as you can get.Jun 28 23:55
cubexyzdidn't like it :)Jun 28 23:55
oiaohmratposion is a little on the small side.Jun 28 23:55
cubexyzthe idea was interesting but... it just didn't seem usableJun 28 23:55
oiaohmCutting away mouse operating and reducing to keyboard removes a huge stack of operations.Jun 28 23:56
cubexyzyou might have seen this:Jun 28 23:57
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/compare-all-wms.pngJun 28 23:57
cubexyztinywm was also unusableJun 28 23:58
cubexyzso far I mostly use icewmJun 28 23:59
cubexyzdwm is pretty smallJun 29 00:01
oiaohmThe closer to a bare min wm you get the more configuration you have todo.Jun 29 00:01
oiaohmTWM is normally the smallest I go.Jun 29 00:02
oiaohmBut once you add on pagers and everything else to be functional those bar min windows managers start getting a lot larger.Jun 29 00:03
oiaohmTWM configured usable and awesome take up about the same ammount of space.Jun 29 00:05
cubexyztrying to remember what file to edit to add a new wmJun 29 00:09
cubexyzI added it to .xinitrc but there's another thing...Jun 29 00:10
oiaohmwm list is ?dm releated.Jun 29 00:13
cubexyzmod1 == alt?Jun 29 00:14
cubexyzguess it doesJun 29 00:14
cubexyzugh, I can't move windowsJun 29 00:15
cubexyzah, there we goJun 29 00:16
cubexyzeverything seems based on using the alt key to do anythingJun 29 00:19
cubexyzimpressive small 28,832 bytesJun 29 00:19
oiaohmcubexyz: what are you playing with.Jun 29 00:20
cubexyzdefinitely old school, complete with troff man pageJun 29 00:20
cubexyzdwmJun 29 00:20
cubexyzif you wanted a micro-distro that would be a good addition :)Jun 29 00:21
oiaohmI remember why I don't use it.  Keyboard alt key dominates does not agree with a lot of programs I uese.Jun 29 00:21
oiaohmalt key to move windows lines up with alt key do a operation in blender.Jun 29 00:22
oiaohmThat is also the problem with some of the really compact wm X11 applicaitons are not design to get along with them.Jun 29 00:22
cubexyzyeah there's no .dwmrc which is a bit of a painJun 29 00:23
cubexyzone adjusts dwm by recompilingJun 29 00:23
oiaohmYes processing configuration file equals more ram usage.Jun 29 00:24
oiaohmBasically really compact wm for X11 totally lacks flexablity.Jun 29 00:24
cubexyzwhat do you normally use?Jun 29 00:25
oiaohmNormally kdeJun 29 00:25
oiaohmBut I have large ram so KDE foot print does not bother me at all.Jun 29 00:25
oiaohmMind you KDE memory fort print is better than Windows 8.0 and 8.1Jun 29 00:27
oiaohmSo even the worst X11 Wm is not that horible.Jun 29 00:27
cubexyzlet me see your htop :)Jun 29 00:27
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/icewm-htop.pngJun 29 00:30
cubexyzcomfortable with 512 meg, firefox is the biggest memory pig Jun 29 00:31
oiaohmPlease note virt is not used ammount.Jun 29 00:33
oiaohmMy plasma dekstop is reading 3.5 G virt but only 180 used.Jun 29 00:33
oiaohmKDE really need to learn to deallocate.Jun 29 00:34
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oiaohmcubexyz: I have a lot running on my system. htop shows paths to suff I should not show in public.Jun 29 00:35
cubexyzok, npJun 29 00:35
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cubexyzprobably the openbsd is the most efficientJun 29 00:37
cubexyzopenbsd boxJun 29 00:37
cubexyzI do love those coloured tabs in konsoleJun 29 00:38
cubexyzas you can see, I'm using parts of KDE stillJun 29 00:38
cubexyzI thought KDE was a bit overly elaborateJun 29 00:39
oiaohmplasma desktop is 3512M vit 187 Res and 69180 sharedJun 29 00:39
oiaohmAnd that is over 4 processes with 3 process that after kde is started never use a bit of cpu time again.Jun 29 00:40
oiaohmkde is a true pig.Jun 29 00:40
cubexyzdid you know you can do / searches in htop, quite handyJun 29 00:41
oiaohmI locked htop to sort by pidJun 29 00:42
cubexyzl lists open files for that processJun 29 00:42
oiaohmThe Res value is the real memory it using.Jun 29 00:43
cubexyzefficient text/ncurses interfaceJun 29 00:43
oiaohmOver all my system only has 4.5G in use.Jun 29 00:43
oiaohmIf all the virtual was allocated I would need something like 100GJun 29 00:43
cubexyzis there a config file for htop?Jun 29 00:43
oiaohmcubexyz: bash alias command.Jun 29 00:44
oiaohmTo force command line option.Jun 29 00:44
cubexyzhtop --sort-key PIDJun 29 00:45
cubexyzactually I think htop --sort-key Command might be betterJun 29 00:46
cubexyzdon't see any advantage sorting by PIDJun 29 00:46
oiaohmPID is set because it useful when needrestart reports.Jun 29 00:47
oiaohmBasically I have needrestart on by debian that restarts any service that is running old files and list stuff.Jun 29 00:48
oiaohmI do like that htop supports f6 to charge the sort after you are in.Jun 29 00:49
oiaohmMy biggest memory hog is iceweasel.Jun 29 00:49
oiaohmFollowed by chrome.Jun 29 00:49
oiaohmKDE is quite small on memory usaged compared to most browsers.Jun 29 00:50
oiaohmPlease note porting KDE applications to Windows.  KDE huge memory allocations become a big problem.Jun 29 00:50
oiaohmBecause Windows really allocates everything.Jun 29 00:50
cubexyzit's because everyone tries to do everything in the browser which is sillyJun 29 00:51
cubexyzI have no problem download video filesJun 29 00:52
cubexyzs/download/downloading/Jun 29 00:52
oiaohmOS X,  Linux, BSD all can run kde applications without memory problems due to the idea of virtual allocations.Jun 29 00:52
oiaohmIe only give application memory when it really uses what it has asked for idea.Jun 29 00:52
oiaohmcubexyz: libreoffice uses more than KDE.Jun 29 00:53
oiaohmKDE on a 8G system is lucky to come up to 4percent memory usage.Jun 29 00:53
oiaohmOf course that is under Linux.Jun 29 00:53
oiaohmNow run it under windows say ouch.Jun 29 00:54
oiaohmYes there is a KDE for windows project 16G of ram is kinda a bare min.Jun 29 00:54
cubexyzgood griefJun 29 00:54
cubexyzI think using GUIs for everything makes people dumberJun 29 00:56
cubexyzthey can't remember the names of directoriesJun 29 00:56
oiaohmnot really.   you are presume people did that in the first place.Jun 29 00:56
oiaohmI remember seeing walls and walls of paper stuck up with instructions in the dos age.Jun 29 00:57
cubexyzwell _I_ did :)Jun 29 00:57
oiaohmSo not remembering names of directories is nothing new.Jun 29 00:57
cubexyzi still can remember most directory namesJun 29 00:57
oiaohmI can too cubexyzJun 29 00:57
oiaohmBut the reality we are the minority.Jun 29 00:57
oiaohmthe majority are idiots.Jun 29 00:57
oiaohmor not interested.Jun 29 00:58
oiaohmreally like cubexyz how often do you see a password on a sticky note on a screen.Jun 29 00:58
cubexyzsurely they put it on the monitor's bezel? :)Jun 29 00:58
oiaohmcubexyz: hopefully.Jun 29 00:59
oiaohmI have seen some just stuck in the right hand top corner because they never use that bit of the screenJun 29 00:59
oiaohmThose people know how to use alt f4 to close windows.Jun 29 01:00
oiaohmor close them by the taskbar.Jun 29 01:00
cubexyzhahaJun 29 01:00
oiaohmGUI has not exactly made them dumber as they were not that bright in the first place.Jun 29 01:00
oiaohmJust has reduced the ammount of office litter.Jun 29 01:01
cubexyzthe "paperless" officeJun 29 01:02
oiaohmPart of getting to a paperless office is good GUI.Jun 29 01:02
oiaohmOther part is making something that can store data long term as good as paper.Jun 29 01:02
oiaohmNeither of these problems have we really solved.Jun 29 01:03
cubexyzyes, the restoration of the Unix version 1 kernel was only possible because one guy had printed all the codeJun 29 01:03
cubexyzm-disc claims it will last 1000 yearsJun 29 01:05
oiaohmcubexyz: will the drive?Jun 29 01:05
cubexyzno doubt it :)Jun 29 01:05
cubexyzI doubt itJun 29 01:05
cubexyzno wayJun 29 01:05
oiaohmReally I think bar codes printed on paper compacting the data could be the way forwards.Jun 29 01:05
oiaohmOk it would be hard for a human to read manually but it would not be impossible.Jun 29 01:06
cubexyzI doubt it would last 20 yearsJun 29 01:06
cubexyznone of my cdroms from the early 1990s still workJun 29 01:06
oiaohmI have one cdrom drive from 1994 that works.Jun 29 01:07
cubexyzI haven't had any success fixing cdrom drives eitherJun 29 01:08
oiaohmThat is out of 400Jun 29 01:08
cubexyzok, but is it a burner? Jun 29 01:08
cubexyzthose don't last too longJun 29 01:08
oiaohmNo its only a reader.Jun 29 01:08
oiaohmThis was a drive that was used for 10+ years before being taken out of service.Jun 29 01:08
cubexyzso they have stopped making ide drives, I'm a bit screwed Jun 29 01:09
oiaohmNot really.Jun 29 01:09
oiaohmThere are converts that convert from ide to sata and sata to ide.Jun 29 01:09
cubexyzmy Amiga needs SCSI 50 pinJun 29 01:09
cubexyzbut I think there's some CF thing that can be convertedJun 29 01:10
cubexyzpeople aren't thinking long term, it's 4 years then dump itJun 29 01:10
oiaohmThere is a SCSI 80 pin to sataJun 29 01:11
oiaohmYes you can use a cable from SCSI 50 to 80pinJun 29 01:11
oiaohmsata dvd /bluray drives access scsi commands.Jun 29 01:12
oiaohmcubexyz: I do a bit of making some of these odd machines work using modern hardware so they can be used on display.Jun 29 01:12
oiaohmYes you don't want to be wearing the collectable drives.Jun 29 01:12
oiaohmThere are horible things as solid state floppy drive emulators.Jun 29 01:14
oiaohmSo some of the collectable display machines set up if you turned up with a real historic floppy disc for the machine you would find you could not use it as they don't have the drive.Jun 29 01:14
cubexyz"Premininary Unix Implementation Document June 1972" it wasJun 29 01:16
cubexyzthat was printed outJun 29 01:16
cubexyzT. R. BashkowJun 29 01:16
cubexyzworthy of rememberanceJun 29 01:16
oiaohmI have to get going.Jun 29 01:17
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Is Google the New Microsoft?Jun 29 03:07
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/IomExoTLis (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 03:07
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mycspJun 29 03:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Is Google the New Microsoft? | Tux MachinesJun 29 03:07
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Meet Nova OS, Cuba's National Ubuntu-BasedJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines                 Linux Operating System http://t.co/W0Um2YJGSxJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myd7yJun 29 04:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Meet Nova OS, Cuba's National Ubuntu-Based Linux Operating System | Tux MachinesJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Tiny Core 6.1 Raspberry Pi Edition Comes withJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines                 Linux Kernel 3.18.10 LTS http://t.co/pvMZwq9ooDJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 04:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Tiny Core 6.1 Raspberry Pi Edition Comes with Linux Kernel 3.18.10 LTS | Tux MachinesJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myd81Jun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     LINUX, RUBY AND WEB CODING LAB FOR GRADUATEJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines                 TRAINEES OPENS AT SCI-BONOJun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/UsDEJIerA5 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 04:05
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myd84Jun 29 04:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | LINUX, RUBY AND WEB CODING LAB FOR GRADUATE TRAINEES OPENS AT SCI-BONO | Tux MachinesJun 29 04:05
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Galicia publishes open source toolsJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/3Y8nDmVAcd (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myeslJun 29 07:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Galicia publishes open source tools | Tux MachinesJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Solus Gets Daily ISOs, Linux Kernel 4.1 LTS,Jun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines                 and More http://t.co/jXvo3fijnhJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 07:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Solus Gets Daily ISOs, Linux Kernel 4.1 LTS, and More | Tux MachinesJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myesmJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Aragon publishes updates of eGovernmentJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines                 software http://t.co/qByVrX5ZPXJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 07:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Aragon publishes updates of eGovernment software | Tux MachinesJun 29 07:21
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myesnJun 29 07:21
roy__>Jun 29 07:35
roy__> http://fossforce.com/2015/06/is-google-the-new-microsoft/Jun 29 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fossforce.com | Is Google the New Microsoft? | FOSS Force [ http://ur1.ca/myex2 ]Jun 29 07:35
roy__>Jun 29 07:35
roy__> Revisionism especially that closing sentence.  People hate M$ not forJun 29 07:35
roy__> the sake of hating M$ but because of how it (and its people) behaves andJun 29 07:35
roy__> has behaved.  It has held computing back at least 20 years and theJun 29 07:35
roy__> damage spreads into all domains where desktop computers are used.Jun 29 07:35
roy__I don't want to pick on Christine because she has been kind to us and we usually agree with her. She also defended DRM and other nasty things at times, but diversity of opinion sometimes needs to be tolerated.Jun 29 07:35
oiaohmGoogle has the possiblity of being the next Microsofit but Google is not getting their own way all the time with OEMsJun 29 07:41
cubexyzthere's more diversity nowJun 29 07:50
cubexyzthere used to be Commodore/Atari/Radio Shack/etcJun 29 07:50
cubexyzwe're going back to a more diverse ecosystemJun 29 07:50
oiaohmReality a large percentage of the commodore/atari/Radio shack/etc was fake diversety.Jun 29 07:51
oiaohmPeople forget how often those machines were Microsoft basic.Jun 29 07:51
cubexyzz80/68000/6502/286Jun 29 07:52
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6282326Jun 29 07:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #SandsCasino and #SheldonAdelson are "job creators" in the same sense that Pharaoh was. Building useless vanity for self indulgence.Jun 29 07:53
roy__"guess with enough money you're entitled to some Pharaoh complex, helps them contrast their memento mori - at least he went "all in" and finished it."Jun 29 07:53
cubexyzamigados, xenix, msdos, gem, etcJun 29 07:53
roy__Maybe he wants to be buried there, or cremated like the tyrant of singapore whom he supported, then preserved in some pot in the casino...Jun 29 07:53
oiaohmcubexyz: xenix is microsoft.  gem form memory was on top of MSdos.Jun 29 07:54
cubexyzno one was using microsoft basic on amiga oiaohm Jun 29 07:54
cubexyzit suckedJun 29 07:54
roy__today I heard about someone from Microsoft dumped .NETJun 29 07:54
roy__moving to C++Jun 29 07:54
cubexyzGEM was digital researchJun 29 07:54
roy__perhaps Microsoft too realises that C# is rubbishJun 29 07:54
roy__and will pay more for people who do C++Jun 29 07:54
cubexyzhardly fair to call it a Microsoft productJun 29 07:54
oiaohmcubexyz: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaBASICJun 29 07:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | AmigaBASIC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJun 29 07:55
cubexyzsysv xenix was SCO by that time Jun 29 07:55
cubexyzmicrosoft product no longerJun 29 07:55
cubexyzand the true originator was Bell LabsJun 29 07:56
cubexyznot MicrosoftJun 29 07:56
cubexyzMicrosoft merely licensed Unix v7Jun 29 07:56
oiaohmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix   Xenix brand is Microsoft.Jun 29 07:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Xenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJun 29 07:57
oiaohmSCO licensed right to distrubite it for a while before making their own.Jun 29 07:57
oiaohmThe reality is back then cubexyz Microsoft was a lot more diversified company.Jun 29 08:00
oiaohmMicrosoft is slowly becoming a 1 trick pony.Jun 29 08:00
cubexyzI'm not saying Xenix was all that great Jun 29 08:00
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Garry's Mod and Rust Dev Say Linux Is a SecondJun 29 08:00
TweetTuxMachines                 Class Citizen http://t.co/THDectGolxJun 29 08:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Garry's Mod and Rust Dev Say Linux Is a Second Class Citizen - SoftpediaJun 29 08:00
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 29 08:00
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myf4xJun 29 08:00
cubexyzclosed source and all thatJun 29 08:00
cubexyzXenix was never a microsoft thing when I was using itJun 29 08:01
cubexyzthey bailed out to work on OS/2 with IBM, then bailed out on OS/2Jun 29 08:02
roy__https://twitter.com/Reconquista1970/status/615491388478726144Jun 29 08:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Reconquista1970: @schestowitz After the events of last week, what we badly need is more,"Mosques".Jun 29 08:06
roy__That's not the core issue, I guess, they can build their mosque in another place, not in the same site as a to-be-demolished churchJun 29 08:07
cubexyzit's interesting that Gates was blah blah blahing at Unix Expo and never mentioned Linux onceJun 29 08:09
cubexyzbut i know Linux was starting to hit Universities in 1994Jun 29 08:09
oiaohmUnix conferences Linux was not to be mentioned to at least year 2000.Jun 29 08:10
oiaohmPlease not BSD was also in that camp of not talk about.Jun 29 08:10
cubexyzhaJun 29 08:11
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     "The statistics collection feature ofJun 29 08:11
TweetTuxMachines                 KActivities is slowly becoming a core part ofJun 29 08:11
TweetTuxMachines                 Plasma." http://t.co/9WNtQPzWlw (cukic.co)Jun 29 08:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cukic.co | Ivan Čukić | "Private browsing mode" for activitiesJun 29 08:11
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myf92Jun 29 08:11
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Solus Gets Daily ISOs, Linux Kernel 4.1 LTS,Jun 29 08:12
TweetTuxMachines                 and More http://t.co/OEg5wRKYi3Jun 29 08:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Solus Gets Daily ISOs, Linux Kernel 4.1 LTS, and More - SoftpediaJun 29 08:12
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 29 08:12
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myf93Jun 29 08:12
cubexyzpretty sure I saw RedHat 5.2 retail box in storesJun 29 08:12
cubexyznovember 1998Jun 29 08:12
cubexyzso it was definitely aroundJun 29 08:12
cubexyzand I'll prove that I had freebsd back in 1995:Jun 29 08:13
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/freebsd-1995.jpegJun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Samsung sells a million Tizen Z1 Smartphones inJun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines                 less than six months, more models coming soonJun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/rdDeqQxEId (www.tizenexperts.com)Jun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myf9xJun 29 08:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tizenexperts.com | Samsung sells a million Tizen Z1 Smartphones in less than six months, more models coming soon - Tizen ExpertsJun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Introducing the Default Wallpapers of the GNOMEJun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines                 3.18 Desktop Environment http://t.co/NWtvUOMG9DJun 29 08:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Introducing the Default Wallpapers of the GNOME 3.18 Desktop Environment - SoftpediaJun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines                 (linux.softpedia.com)Jun 29 08:14
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myf9yJun 29 08:14
*TweetTuxMachines @EnvReddit favourited 'Introducing the Default Wallpapers of the GNOME 3.18...'Jun 29 08:14
cubexyzMinix, BeOS, FreeBSD, Yggdrasil Linux, etcJun 29 08:14
roy__https://twitter.com/Reconquista1970/status/615493077575278592Jun 29 08:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Reconquista1970: @schestowitz It is a core issue, they've been building on top of ruined Churches for centuries, nothing's changed.Jun 29 08:15
roy__https://twitter.com/Reconquista1970/status/615493494623367168Jun 29 08:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Reconquista1970: @schestowitz My concern is more the proliferation of Mosques and concern with who's financing them.Jun 29 08:15
roy__Not hard to guessJun 29 08:15
roy__https://twitter.com/Reconquista1970/status/615493784953073664Jun 29 08:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Reconquista1970: @schestowitz If the C of E didn't sell out to the very people who wish their demise, we wouldn't be having this conversation.Jun 29 08:16
cubexyzI'm a bit embarrassed I didn't use it more back thenJun 29 08:17
cubexyzI was too busy trying to fix crashing win95 boxesJun 29 08:17
cubexyzdidn't morph into a Unix traditionalist until a lot laterJun 29 08:18
cubexyzhere's a rough chronology:Jun 29 08:19
XRevan86cubexyz: What beastie does with the pancake?Jun 29 08:19
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/unix-timeline.txtJun 29 08:19
cubexyznot sure exactly what that's supposed to beJun 29 08:20
XRevan86floating pancake that illuminates in beastie's eyesJun 29 08:20
cubexyzit's the BSD Daemon with a puff of smoke or somethingJun 29 08:21
XRevan86There is a type of shoes called "kedi" in Russian (wikipedia says it comes from "Keds" brand)Jun 29 08:23
XRevan86cubexyz: I find that Beastie wears kedi.Jun 29 08:24
cubexyzall the foss OS mascots:Jun 29 08:25
XRevan86Which is noticable because KDE.Jun 29 08:25
cubexyzhttp://i.stack.imgur.com/rfBgZ.png Jun 29 08:25
XRevan86cubexyz: "Darwin" now qualifies as true FOSS?Jun 29 08:26
oiaohmXRevan86: that picture is a little old.Jun 29 08:26
cubexyzisn't it mostly FOSS or something?Jun 29 08:27
oiaohmThe XRevan86 darwin like logo you are seeing is opendarwinJun 29 08:27
XRevan86cubexyz: It is. It just doesn't go into FOSS spirit, you know :).Jun 29 08:27
oiaohmYes OS X kernel with a X11 envornement.Jun 29 08:27
oiaohmIn otherwords horible.Jun 29 08:27
cubexyzX needs a mascot :)Jun 29 08:28
XRevan86cubexyz: Isn't it a bit too late? :)Jun 29 08:31
XRevan86I wonder whether Oracle Solaris Express is still alive.Jun 29 08:36
XRevan86or better to say, truly aliveJun 29 08:36
XRevan86I somehow suspect Oracle doesn't want it anymore.Jun 29 08:36
XRevan86(in either way, I don't understand the users of Oracle Solaris)Jun 29 08:36
cubexyzit went closed source from what I understandJun 29 08:39
XRevan86cubexyz: It did, yeah.Jun 29 08:39
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cubexyzSun was mailing out free Solaris 10 DVDs for a while back in 2006Jun 29 08:40
XRevan86Canonical was mailing out free Ubuntu for a while :).Jun 29 08:41
cubexyzyes I got one :)Jun 29 08:41
XRevan86I didn't. I didn't realize the offer is limited %).Jun 29 08:41
XRevan86At least I have a CD with SUSE Linux 10 :).Jun 29 08:43
XRevan86Not an official one: it was OEM'ed with one of the PC's.Jun 29 08:43
XRevan86I didn't realize I have it until 6 years later so it was a nice surprise.Jun 29 08:48
XRevan86or maybe 8 years laterJun 29 08:48
XRevan86oiaohm, cubexyz: What OS do you both use right now? :)Jun 29 08:50
cubexyzI use a bunch of different onesJun 29 08:50
cubexyzthis is openbsd I'm ircing on Jun 29 08:50
cubexyzI also use vectorlinux (slack based), AntiX, FC1, Fedora 14, Fedora 16, and I work on improving Unix v5 a fair bitJun 29 08:51
cubexyzBasic Linux 3.5 on low memory systems, e.g. 16 megs of ramJun 29 08:52
XRevan86cubexyz: What's the point of VectorLinux?Jun 29 08:53
cubexyzit's my KDE 3.5.10 box, no big reasonJun 29 08:54
cubexyzsort of a middle-weight LinuxJun 29 08:55
XRevan86cubexyz: Why do you have so many old Fedora's?Jun 29 08:56
cubexyzI used to have more :)Jun 29 08:57
cubexyzI got back into Linux with Redhat 8Jun 29 08:57
cubexyzand I have a lot of old computersJun 29 08:57
cubexyzI keep them for testing stuffJun 29 08:58
XRevan86cubexyz: Well, you can install something modern there, right?Jun 29 08:58
cubexyzI'm installing openbsd 5.7 on a box now actuallyJun 29 08:59
oiaohmXRevan86: my core is Debian with KDE window manager.   But that is not the only OS I run.Jun 29 09:00
XRevan86oiaohm: Only kwin?Jun 29 09:00
oiaohmI have all the other KDE stuff like plasma ...Jun 29 09:01
XRevan86cubexyz: I was thinking about Debian, void linux, Arch and all that stuff when I wrote that message :).Jun 29 09:01
cubexyzin some ways Unix v5 is the most educational Jun 29 09:02
cubexyzyou're forced to learn a lotJun 29 09:02
cubexyzstdio? nopeJun 29 09:02
oiaohmMy current debian is a mix between stable testing and sid.Jun 29 09:03
XRevan86Fedora was the most educational to me. I learned that I don't want to know anything about it.Jun 29 09:03
oiaohmAlso my machine image last clean install was 1998Jun 29 09:03
cubexyzXRevan86, what are you using again?Jun 29 09:03
cubexyzI know you told me but I've forgottenJun 29 09:03
oiaohmLets just say for my core computer I don't change OS's much.Jun 29 09:03
oiaohmI upgrade but not change.Jun 29 09:04
XRevan86cubexyz: openSUSE on my laptop, void linux on a stationary and Debian on a VPS.Jun 29 09:04
XRevan86Laptop is the main PC for me.Jun 29 09:04
oiaohmMy next motherboard with all the EFI changes I will at long last have todo a proper install.Jun 29 09:04
XRevan86oiaohm: Set "Legacy BIOS" in it, boot Debian and then start reading Arch Wiki if you want UEFI :).Jun 29 09:05
XRevan86That's kind of how I moved to UEFI when I had upgraded BIOS on my laptop.Jun 29 09:06
oiaohmXRevan86: Not exactly.Jun 29 09:06
XRevan86oiaohm: It's UEFI-forced somehow?Jun 29 09:06
oiaohmthe newer EFI allows firmware updating from Linux.Jun 29 09:06
XRevan86oiaohm: Um, I guess. But how does that change the procedure?Jun 29 09:07
oiaohmhttps://blogs.intel.com/evangelists/2015/06/23/better-firmware-updates-in-linux-using-uefi-capsules/Jun 29 09:08
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blogs.intel.com | Better Firmware Updates in Linux using UEFI Capsules - Intel Software and Services [ http://ur1.ca/myfs5 ]Jun 29 09:08
oiaohmEFI 2.5 support using uefi capsules to update the firmware.  No dropping out to dosJun 29 09:08
XRevan86> Set "Legacy BIOS" in BIOS setup (to boot from MBR), boot Debian as is from HDD/SSD, start the webbrowser and then start reading Arch Wiki if you want UEFI :).Jun 29 09:08
oiaohmXRevan86: EFI capsules require you in EFI mode.Jun 29 09:09
XRevan86oiaohm: And so you can transform the existing system to UEFI.Jun 29 09:10
oiaohmIts when I change my motherboard.Jun 29 09:10
XRevan86oiaohm: Right.Jun 29 09:10
oiaohmMy install might be 1998 old but by system is not.Jun 29 09:10
oiaohmBasically My OS has transfered from computer to computer.Jun 29 09:11
XRevan86I'm just saying it doesn't require reinstallation effort.Jun 29 09:11
oiaohmStack of things are wrong.Jun 29 09:11
oiaohmMy Linux is partition as per 1998 best pracJun 29 09:11
oiaohmThat is highly not friendly.Jun 29 09:12
XRevan86oiaohm: Well, even repartitioning doesn't require reinstallation :).Jun 29 09:12
*XRevan86 doesn't like reinstallations.Jun 29 09:12
oiaohmAlso I guess I have some collected crud.Jun 29 09:12
XRevan86LiveCD + external drive bigger than the internal one.Jun 29 09:12
XRevan86oiaohm: aptitude search '~i!~M' + cruftJun 29 09:13
XRevan86oiaohm: Debian gives everything one needs to have everything under control without the need to ever reinstall :).Jun 29 09:14
XRevan86autoinstalled packages can be listed the similiar way: '~i~M'Jun 29 09:15
XRevan86oiaohm: aptitude search '~i!~M' gives a list of packages that you manually had installed.Jun 29 09:16
oiaohmXRevan86: really 1 reinstall after 15 years of usage is not much.Jun 29 09:17
oiaohmCompare to how many Windows users do.Jun 29 09:17
XRevan86if you see the package that shouldn't be installed manually (a dependency), just do "aptitude markauto $PACKAGE"Jun 29 09:17
XRevan86oiaohm: Then you reinstall, backup data, restore data, resort data, reconfigure all the stuff.Jun 29 09:18
oiaohmXRevan86: you have listed why I have put it off for 15+ years.Jun 29 09:19
XRevan86oiaohm: And you can put it off for 15 more :).Jun 29 09:20
XRevan86I see no reason you need to reinstall, just clean it up a bitJun 29 09:20
oiaohmI would not exactly say a bit.Jun 29 09:20
XRevan86or not a bit, it doesn't matter: aptitude markauto can process multiple arguments :)Jun 29 09:20
oiaohmI have a lot of depreated stuffJun 29 09:21
XRevan86and rm tooJun 29 09:21
oiaohmI am just to the point the system need a good house clean.Jun 29 09:21
oiaohmOf course I will put it off to when I have to change configuration for EFI.Jun 29 09:21
XRevan86https://packages.debian.org/sid/cruftJun 29 09:21
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SSL connect error ( status 0 @ https://packages.debian.org/sid/cruft )Jun 29 09:22
oiaohmXRevan86: craft currently lists over 15G of stuff.Jun 29 09:22
oiaohmAs I say my system over 15 years has got a bit of a messJun 29 09:23
MinceRi don't think i kept any PC for 15 yearsJun 29 09:23
XRevan86oiaohm: Remove the stuff from the list that you need (and stuff that got into the stuff by cruft flaws)Jun 29 09:23
XRevan86and then remove it allJun 29 09:23
MinceRin use, anywayJun 29 09:24
oiaohmMinceR: its not exactly 15 years in use.Jun 29 09:24
XRevan86and one last thing: aptitude download $(dpkg -l | awk '{print $2}')Jun 29 09:24
XRevan86I didn't bother to find out a better way to get a list of orphaned packages :)Jun 29 09:24
oiaohmMinceR: I have just been transfering my OS from compuer to computer.Jun 29 09:25
oiaohmMinceR: so the harddrive and motherboard that it started on I got rid of in 2004 and I have replaced it again in 2010  Jun 29 09:25
oiaohmAnd sometime this year or next replace hardware again.Jun 29 09:25
oiaohmAbout every 6 years or so I have perfomrance reasons to change over hardware.Jun 29 09:26
MinceRi never did thatJun 29 09:26
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MinceRthough i'm thinking of putting most of my environment in a VM, that would be easy to clone/transplantJun 29 09:27
oiaohmMinceR: I am a custom builder.Jun 29 09:27
MinceRi mostly use laptopsJun 29 09:27
oiaohmSo lot of times my parts are build from parts customers order and pay for then decide they have changed mind.Jun 29 09:27
oiaohmLaptops are a prickJun 29 09:28
MinceRyes, but at least they're portableJun 29 09:29
oiaohmI had a nice mill case for a while.Jun 29 09:32
oiaohmUse to be fun as it was computer with intergrated desk in case.Jun 29 09:33
oiaohmTook stock parts.Jun 29 09:33
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Can LibreOffice successfully compete withJun 29 11:16
TweetTuxMachines                 Microsoft Office? http://t.co/fYadB9ii1RJun 29 11:16
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 11:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Can LibreOffice successfully compete with Microsoft Office? | Tux MachinesJun 29 11:16
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myh32Jun 29 11:16
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*TweetTuxMachines @KirstenNada followed @tuxmachinesJun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Tiny Core 6.1 Raspberry Pi Edition Comes withJun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines                 Linux Kernel 3.18.10 LTS http://t.co/qk14ZhQAy3Jun 29 14:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Tiny Core 6.1 Raspberry Pi Edition Comes with Linux Kernel 3.18.10 LTS - SoftpediaJun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myirxJun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Meet Nova OS, Cuba's National Ubuntu-BasedJun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines                 Linux Operating System http://t.co/PVy9bhK7X8Jun 29 14:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Meet Nova OS, Cuba's National Ubuntu-Based Linux Operating System - SoftpediaJun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 29 14:38
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myiryJun 29 14:38
*TweetTuxMachines got exception: Unexpected end of ZLIB input stream ; reconnecting to Twitter...Jun 29 15:46
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roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6284774Jun 29 17:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Dutch city of Utrecht to experiment with a universal, unconditional 'basic income' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-city-of-utrecht-to-experiment-with-a-universal-unconditional-income-10345595.html will reduce stress, improve healthJun 29 17:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.independent.co.uk | Dutch city of Utrecht to experiment with a universal, unconditional 'basic income' - Europe - World - The Independent [ http://ur1.ca/mxlnk ]Jun 29 17:02
roy__https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/615611835287531520   https://twitter.com/mf1337/status/615609312979849216  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615615884627955712  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615616239390605312Jun 29 17:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@fcassia: I read this and thought of @schestowitz who's always in love with Cisco gear. ;) https://t.co/fuzvM8WBVtJun 29 17:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@securityaffairs: Cisco Security Appliances contain a default SSH Key https://t.co/vPYj0kbf8K #securityaffairs #CISCO #SSH #patchJun 29 17:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@mf1337: Google’s Fight to Keep APIs Free is Lost, Let’s Hope Google Continues Fighting http://t.co/zK4Dqt7cnCJun 29 17:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | Google’s Fight to Keep APIs Free is Lost, Let’s Hope Google Continues Fighting | TechrightsJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: China's best phone yet: Huawei P8 5.2-inch money-saving Android smartie http://t.co/DdxhX3RJi4 #china #huawei #linux #androidJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.theregister.co.uk | China's best phone yet: Huawei P8 5.2-inch money-saving Android smartie • The RegisterJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Nokia’s Android future to be built by Foxconn http://t.co/UVGxaNHsPu #nokia back to #linux then?Jun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.slashgear.com | Nokia’s Android future to be built by Foxconn - SlashGearJun 29 17:05
roy__https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615616844012122112  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615617718532874241  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615618005620367360  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615618284956856320Jun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Linux bids for UAV world domination by enslaving future skybot army http://t.co/ScUmYs9Qgg #drones #linuxJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.theregister.co.uk | Linux bids for UAV world domination by enslaving future skybot army • The RegisterJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: [Developer] #Samsung #Tizen TV SDK 1.5 Released http://t.co/0iZvoyRypT "SDK includes an Integrated Development Environment (IDE)"Jun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #DragonFly #BSD 4.2 Gets Improvements for i915 and Radeon, Moves to GCC 5 http://t.co/5jcQchuwYU #unixJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> news.softpedia.com | DragonFly BSD 4.2 Gets Improvements for i915 and Radeon, Moves to GCC 5 - SoftpediaJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #LibreOffice 5.0 to Bring More Improvements http://t.co/R93W2bHuAd #odf the key featureJun 29 17:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> linux.softpedia.com | LibreOffice 5.0 to Bring More DOCX Improvements - SoftpediaJun 29 17:05
roy__https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615618505019408384  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615619194432974849  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615620398940602368  https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615621327634960384Jun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #RedHat storage: To petabytes and beyond! http://t.co/QP9KzJt9oS #gnu #linux #server #ceph #glusterJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.zdnet.com | ​Red Hat storage: To petabytes and beyond! | ZDNetJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Sad day for developers: #SCOTUS denies Google's appeal on APIs http://t.co/s5kdmi1YzR a truly disgraceful step http://t.co/hzPTbVLAIxJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.infoworld.com | Sad day for developers: SCOTUS denies Google's appeal on APIs | InfoWorldJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: It wasn't that long ago that GNU and Free software were thought of as toy software. -not @sjvn quote http://t.co/OtPIFfVuYEJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.zdnet.com | The top 10 leaders driving open-source tech | ZDNetJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Atop, when you need to know exactly what's happening at the system-resource level http://t.co/MSeNkudvJp #atop #linuxJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.freesoftwaremagazine.com | Atop, when you need to know exactly what's happening at the system-resource levelJun 29 17:06
roy__https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615621976036634624 https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615624829476147200 https://twitter.com/ghabuntu/status/615624488542060544   https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615625555266916354Jun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Release of #OpenMediaVault 2.1 (Stone burner) http://t.co/K4fqgwTYk7Jun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.openmediavault.org | Release of OpenMediaVault 2.1 (Stone burner) | OpenMediaVaultJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Dutch city of Utrecht to experiment with a universal, unconditional 'basic income' http://t.co/UDBGqNKws9 ... https://t.co/NNkZJe6GBZJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> joindiaspora.com | Dutch city of Utr...Jun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ghabuntu: Google’s Fight to Keep APIs Free is Lost, Let’s Hope Google Continues Fighting: SCOTUS refuses to rule that AP... http://t.co/a4KHK2b41IJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | Google’s Fight to Keep APIs Free is Lost, Let’s Hope Google Continues Fighting | TechrightsJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #ikea patching servers as 'news' http://t.co/JjDEvcCWjw did what every other business does, moves onJun 29 17:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.eweek.com | Ikea Patched for Shellshock by Methodically Upgrading All ServersJun 29 17:06
roy__https://twitter.com/accessnow/status/615585560028127236  https://twitter.com/glynmoody/status/615587332838850560Jun 29 17:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@accessnow: Heard of the monster EU-US trade deal TTIP? Here are 7 things you need to know #infographic http://t.co/nNuUMbTLibJun 29 17:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@accessnow: Heard of the monster EU-US trade deal TTIP? Here are 7 things you need to know #infographic http://t.co/nNuUMbTLibJun 29 17:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@glynmoody: Espionnage Élysée - https://t.co/29km71ITNZ why pretending EU's #TTIP negotiating position is "secret" is absurd: NSA already has it allJun 29 17:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SSL connect error ( status 0 @ https://wikileaks.org/nsa-france/spyorder/ )Jun 29 17:07
roy__https://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/615334118872772608Jun 29 17:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: Pretty impressive how #MarinaBaySands built (watched this #BBC documentary twice) https://t.co/iNXRFdo1eD ... https://t.co/diHZ5VdAb8Jun 29 17:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.youtube.com | Marina Bay Sands - Super architecture # Lee kuan yew # Asian dragons - YouTubeJun 29 17:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> joindiaspora.com | Pretty impressive...Jun 29 17:10
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MinceRhttp://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2015-May/031658.htmlJun 29 17:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-lists.freedesktop.org | [systemd-devel] dev-root.device is not active,results in an umount spree [ http://ur1.ca/myk9k ]Jun 29 17:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     The top 10 leaders driving open-source techJun 29 17:45
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/0o7tNlEAOw (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 17:45
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykdrJun 29 17:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | The top 10 leaders driving open-source tech | Tux MachinesJun 29 17:45
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Release of OpenMediaVault 2.1 (Stone burner)Jun 29 17:46
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/EMdewESyCy (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 17:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykdsJun 29 17:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Release of OpenMediaVault 2.1 (Stone burner) | Tux MachinesJun 29 17:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     A month with Fedora 22 leaves me hungry for 23Jun 29 17:46
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/t66qQQv8ts (www.zdnet.com)Jun 29 17:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.zdnet.com | A month with Fedora 22 leaves me hungry for 23 | ZDNetJun 29 17:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykdtJun 29 17:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Check the Ubuntu Touch Wish List for Apps andJun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines                 New Features http://t.co/4Q2ZKbCOryJun 29 17:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Check the Ubuntu Touch Wish List for Apps and New Features - SoftpediaJun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykfiJun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Unity 8 Just Got a Cool 3D App Switcher for theJun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines                 Desktop http://t.co/TS7qrzq1M6Jun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 29 17:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Unity 8 Just Got a Cool 3D App Switcher for the Desktop - SoftpediaJun 29 17:50
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykfjJun 29 17:50
*TweetTuxMachines @Ubuntu_topics favourited 'Check the Ubuntu Touch Wish List for Apps...'Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Solar 2 for Linux Review http://t.co/FZwbAH6eZxJun 29 17:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.softpedia.com | Solar 2 for Linux Review - SoftpediaJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.softpedia.com)Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykh8Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     House gets green light for open sourceJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/RaNHDKkMeB (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykhcJun 29 17:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | House gets green light for open source | Tux MachinesJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Red Hat CEO Applies Open-Source Principles toJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 Management [VIDEO] http://t.co/FJFMtWdcxuJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykhgJun 29 17:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Red Hat CEO Applies Open-Source Principles to Management [VIDEO] | Tux MachinesJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Finding the Right Enterprise SSD for LinuxJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 Machines http://t.co/WDXdKPnlm9Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 17:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Finding the Right Enterprise SSD for Linux Machines | Tux MachinesJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykhjJun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     A month with Fedora 22 leaves me hungry for 23Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/oQyLVBdKJS (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 17:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykhlJun 29 17:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | A month with Fedora 22 leaves me hungry for 23 | Tux MachinesJun 29 17:55
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Check the Ubuntu Touch Wish List for Apps andJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines                 New Features http://t.co/RrMgaS6CwFJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 18:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Check the Ubuntu Touch Wish List for Apps and New Features | Tux MachinesJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykxbJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Exciting Features Merged So Far For The LinuxJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines                 4.2 Kernel http://t.co/1iO7OTyc6MJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com) http://t.co/qG5NPbsWJ8Jun 29 18:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Exciting Features Merged So Far For The Linux 4.2 Kernel - PhoronixJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jun 29 18:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Intel Dominates The Perf Changes For Linux 4.2 - PhoronixJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykxdJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Red Hat CEO Warns About Faux Open SourceJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/plqQew72FM (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykxeJun 29 18:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Red Hat CEO Warns About Faux Open Source | Tux MachinesJun 29 18:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     BeagleCore Open Source Internet Of ThingsJun 29 18:41
TweetTuxMachines                 Development Board (video)Jun 29 18:41
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/IoUnt0FDdH (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 18:41
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykxlJun 29 18:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | BeagleCore Open Source Internet Of Things Development Board (video) | Tux MachinesJun 29 18:41
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Intel Dominates The Perf Changes For Linux 4.2Jun 29 18:41
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/0lI64jG0ja (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 18:41
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mykxnJun 29 18:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Intel Dominates The Perf Changes For Linux 4.2 | Tux MachinesJun 29 18:41
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*TweetTuxMachines @AlexFrommeyer favourited 'BeagleCore Open Source Internet Of Things Development Board...'Jun 29 19:13
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Video review of KDE Plasma 5 from Nerd on theJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines                 Street http://t.co/AYbpNHsDjNJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines                 (wire.kubuntu.org)Jun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mylasJun 29 19:24
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wire.kubuntu.org | Video review of KDE Plasma 5 from Nerd on the Street | Kubuntu WireJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Kernel 4.2 Should Be Bigger (In Commits) ThanJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines                 The Previous Two Kernel Versions (4.1 And 4.0)Jun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/Sa9WYkPkAr (linuxg.net)Jun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mylatJun 29 19:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linuxg.net | Kernel 4.2 Should Be Bigger (In Commits) Than The Previous Two Kernel Versions (4.1 And 4.0) | LinuxG.netJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     How KDE VDG Is Trying To Make Open-SourceJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines                 Software Beautiful http://t.co/blnCAmtefhJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jun 29 19:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | How KDE VDG Is Trying To Make Open-Source Software Beautiful - PhoronixJun 29 19:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mylavJun 29 19:24
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Aria2 Vs Wget – Choose your Download ManagerJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/FVNz77NwYG (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mylf0Jun 29 19:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Aria2 Vs Wget – Choose your Download Manager | Tux MachinesJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Open source COM version of BeagleBone BlackJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines                 hits Kickstarter http://t.co/j8vrWHXCMsJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mylf2Jun 29 19:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Open source COM version of BeagleBone Black hits Kickstarter | Tux MachinesJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: KDE Software http://t.co/RuF9O4C8LYJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 19:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: KDE Software | Tux MachinesJun 29 19:38
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mylf3Jun 29 19:38
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cubexyzopenbsd 5.7 comes with fvwm as defaultJun 29 23:37
cubexyzI got to say it's a crap choice Jun 29 23:37
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oiaohmcubexyz: fvwm vs cde.   Note cde has been a unix tradition for a long time.Jun 29 23:59
cubexyzat least put icewm on thereJun 29 23:59
cubexyzfvwm is just painfulJun 29 23:59
oiaohmcubexyz: have you used cdeJun 30 00:00
cubexyzI don't think soJun 30 00:00
oiaohmThere are something Unix old timers should not choose.Jun 30 00:00
cubexyzmaybe on Ultrix?Jun 30 00:00
oiaohmThe Windows manager.Jun 30 00:00
oiaohmcubexyz: modern cde looks like xfceJun 30 00:01
oiaohmOld cde looks and acts very much like fvwmJun 30 00:02
oiaohmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Desktop_Environment   cubexyz CDE I what the Unix world decide was a good desktop envornment.Jun 30 00:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Common Desktop Environment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/myni7 ]Jun 30 00:03
oiaohmYou can fairly much see the Linux world really did not agree.Jun 30 00:03
oiaohmWith KDE, Gnome and many others.Jun 30 00:03
cubexyzis there CDE for Linux?Jun 30 00:05
cubexyzI really like icewm thoughJun 30 00:06
cubexyzI've tried almost everythingJun 30 00:06
cubexyzCDE looks rather like KDE 1.0Jun 30 00:11
oiaohmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FVWM  Has a lot of good decentants.  I hope they were at least using FVWM-XPMJun 30 00:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | FVWM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJun 30 00:12
oiaohmhttp://sourceforge.net/p/cdesktopenv/wiki/SupportedPlatforms/  cubexyz cde is build from sourceJun 30 00:12
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-sourceforge.net | CDE - Common Desktop Environment / Wiki / SupportedPlatforms [ http://ur1.ca/mynl3 ]Jun 30 00:12
cubexyzoiaohm, it's just when Thompson wrote the Thompson Shell, and a bunch of other people improved on it: mashey shell, bourne shell, lots of othersJun 30 00:13
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cubexyzfinally got tinywm working :Jun 30 01:10
cubexyzsuch a silly issue with tinywm-sessionJun 30 01:10
cubexyzso minimal I love itJun 30 01:11
cubexyzfeel the minimalism:Jun 30 01:17
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/tinywm-1.3.pngJun 30 01:17
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MinceRcubexyz: fvwm is greatJun 30 09:09
cubexyzwhat's great about it?Jun 30 09:09
MinceRit's very flexibleJun 30 09:11
cubexyzthe openbsd guys seem to like it, it's the default window managerJun 30 09:14
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cubexyzit defaults to a very tiny font thoughJun 30 09:18
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XRevan86http://newsru.com/world/30jun2015/sorcery.html ISIS kills two women accusing them in witchcraft.Jun 30 15:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-newsru.com | NEWSru.com :: " " , [ http://ur1.ca/myvy3 ]Jun 30 15:59
XRevan86Witchcraft. Seriously!?Jun 30 15:59
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MinceRwelcome to the dark ages!Jun 30 16:46
XRevan86MinceR: I didn't miss them.Jun 30 16:50
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XRevan86ISIS guys really should make a public poll: "Whether you do or do not the ressurection of dark ages? [Y/n/R U mad?]"Jun 30 16:51
MinceRdoesn't matter, they're coming back.Jun 30 16:53
XRevan86I'm very tired and didn't sleep last night properly, sorry for my sentences.Jun 30 16:53
MinceRboth the fundies and the oligarchs want them backJun 30 16:54
MinceRfundie oligarchs more so; fundie dictators most of all.Jun 30 16:54
XRevan86Do populists qualify as fundie dictators?Jun 30 16:59
MinceRdunno, i certainly know about at least one fundie dictator who is also a populistJun 30 16:59
MinceRor at least used to beJun 30 16:59
MinceRi wonder what he'll do once he figures out that even the fans of his party tend to oppose his ban on shops being open on sundaysJun 30 17:00
XRevan86MinceR: Wow, that's stupid.Jun 30 17:01
MinceRindeedJun 30 17:01
MinceRbut it comes naturally with christian fundamentalismJun 30 17:01
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XRevan86christian fundamentalism becomes rational to a person if be believes in the Jun 30 17:02
XRevan86righteousness of christian waysJun 30 17:02
XRevan86Where there's christians, there are fundamentalistsJun 30 17:02
MinceRmyth. not even once.Jun 30 17:03
XRevan86s/christian/$RELIGION_GUY/Jun 30 17:03
MinceRhttp://weloveatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/V89sgYj.jpgJun 30 17:03
XRevan86My point is: religion ways are fady and reviewing them in the ways human want is like admitting they mean literally nothing.Jun 30 17:05
XRevan86And religious people don't like to admit that => fundamentalism is an answer for them.Jun 30 17:05
XRevan86I was trying to remember the word: integrity.Jun 30 17:09
XRevan86I see it like that fundamentalists try to find integrity in their religion.Jun 30 17:10
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DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/06/op-ed-safari-is-the-new-internet-explorer/Jun 30 17:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-arstechnica.com | Op-ed: Safari is the new Internet Explorer | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/mywob ]Jun 30 17:15
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MinceRunfortunately, there's also an old internet explorerJun 30 17:24
MinceR>Microsoft is repentant these daysJun 30 17:55
MinceRtypical arse technica bullshitJun 30 17:55
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roy__https://twitter.com/jurasick/status/616002885495713792Jun 30 18:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jurasick: @schestowitz nice post. The only challenge with completely switching is the fear of losing investments in paid #Windows software #flstudioJun 30 18:02
DaemonFCMinceR: To be fair, I have tried their new Edge browser. It *is* superior to Safari, although that isn't saying much.Jun 30 18:15
MinceRah yes, the new name of IEJun 30 18:15
MinceRlike their "new" search engine, windows live searchJun 30 18:16
DaemonFCNot exactly. Edge is a distinctly different browser.Jun 30 18:16
MinceRoh, i'm sure it's differentJun 30 18:16
DaemonFCIt sheds a lot of backwards compatibility junk and it's faster and more standards compliant.Jun 30 18:16
MinceRjust like the tcp/ip stack in vista was "totally rewritten"Jun 30 18:16
MinceRit just happened to have the exact same bugs.Jun 30 18:16
MinceRtotally accidental.Jun 30 18:16
DaemonFCIt's possible that it was rewritten and had some of the same bugs, by design.Jun 30 18:17
MinceRyeahJun 30 18:17
DaemonFCFor applications that were written to expect them and break without them.Jun 30 18:18
MinceRit's also possible that instead of paying some developers to write new code, they paid some artists to come up with a new name and logoJun 30 18:18
MinceRand a new skin for the uiJun 30 18:18
MinceRand pay some "journalists" to spread the word.Jun 30 18:18
MinceRand flipped a few switches in the code, maybeJun 30 18:18
MinceRhow many times has m$ have to lie blatantly for people to catch up to the fact that they never tell the truth?Jun 30 18:19
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6286260Jun 30 18:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: OpenBSD from a veteran Linux user perspective http://cfenollosa.com/blog/openbsd-from-a-veteran-linux-user-perspective.html #openbsd #bsd #unix #securityJun 30 18:26
roy__"Jun 30 18:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> cfenollosa.com | OpenBSD from a veteran Linux user perspective [ http://ur1.ca/myxez ]Jun 30 18:26
roy__"In a few years we've gone from /etc/init.d/sshd restart to service sshd restart to systemctl start sshd."Jun 30 18:26
roy__I'll miss this part now that I'm a DBA.Jun 30 18:26
roy__"Jun 30 18:26
roy__"Jun 30 18:27
roy__"it's the price of progress, aimed to make computers boot faster"Jun 30 18:27
roy__Sure.Jun 30 18:27
roy__"Jun 30 18:27
roy__"I really like systemd. It provides a consistent interface to all services."Jun 30 18:27
roy__"I think it's a nice piece of blogpost - My first little steps with OpenBSD have not been long time ago - also with 5.7 - it feels a bit strange without procFS, but I think it's a nice operating system. I've had a little problem with ncurses, what I couldn't solve so I decided to install something else on that old ppc-machine. And yes, the man pages are great. I've been reading them and somewhen I realised that night was already very over (04:10 Jun 30 18:27
roy__am) ... I have been absorded in reading man pages that night :D"Jun 30 18:27
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6286931Jun 30 18:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #Linux #Kernel 4.1.1 Is Now the Most Stable and Advanced Version Available http://news.softpedia.com/news/linux-kernel-4-1-1-is-now-the-most-stable-and-advanced-version-available-485637.shtmlJun 30 18:28
roy__"kinda wish to see some headlines like "Linux kernel now improve battery life significantly""Jun 30 18:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> news.softpedia.com | Linux Kernel 4.1.1 Is Now the Most Stable and Advanced Version Available - Softpedia [ http://ur1.ca/myxfg ]Jun 30 18:28
roy__"https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6286931"Jun 30 18:28
roy__"^ +1"Jun 30 18:28
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6282074Jun 30 18:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: "can’t be screenshot, saved or forwarded, and the app’s servers are wiped daily to avoid being targeted by hackers." http://www.heraldsun.com.au/technology/techknow/aussie-dads-fight-back-against-revenge-porn-and-sexting-by-making-safe-app-for-sharing-nude-photos/story-fni0byfl-1227417816014Jun 30 18:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.heraldsun.com.au | No Cookies | Herald Sun [ http://ur1.ca/mydls ]Jun 30 18:29
roy__"and for trophy swapping. I wonder how long it takes 20 something interns to get bored of it."Jun 30 18:29
roy__"porn-viewing rooms? Are they private booths with a box of kleenex conveniently supplied?"Jun 30 18:29
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6289863Jun 30 18:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@linux@joindiaspora.com: XFS Will Get DAX Support In The Linux 4.2 Kernel http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=XFS-Linux-4.2-DAX-And-MoreJun 30 18:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.phoronix.com | XFS Will Get DAX Support In The Linux 4.2 Kernel - Phoronix [ http://ur1.ca/myxga ]Jun 30 18:30
roy__"Are there still Reiser FS user?"Jun 30 18:30
MinceRmake computers boot into an infinite umount attempt loop fasterJun 30 18:35
MinceRmake computers boot faster by forgetting to start some services randomlyJun 30 18:36
MinceRmake computers boot faster by not waiting for fsck to finishJun 30 18:36
gde33MinceR: I thought it was sad express gate doesnt boot in the backgroundJun 30 18:49
gde33you could have many layers of booting Jun 30 18:49
MinceRmany layers of screwing upJun 30 18:49
gde33thats ok, as long as the final version has all the featuresJun 30 18:50
gde33if I just want a web browser it is madly annoying to wait for agesJun 30 18:50
gde33you have to reap the fruits of a thought in the moment not 10 seconds laterJun 30 18:50
gde33for websites a delay of more than 0.2 costs visitors and ruins click though rateJun 30 18:51
gde33the web shit is comming from the other end of the worldJun 30 18:51
MinceRfunny they should use such a bloated "standard" thenJun 30 18:52
gde33yeah its terribleJun 30 18:52
gde33the old skool instant on + tape streamer was faster than modern boot loadersJun 30 18:52
gde33the core issue is that people are small thinkers Jun 30 18:53
gde33small thinkers have no respect for big ideas, they wont support themJun 30 18:54
MinceRto me it looks more like the core issue is that people are stupidJun 30 18:54
gde33lack of vision is a kind of stupidJun 30 18:54
MinceRthey're mesmerized by shiny new crap and don't care for stuff that worksJun 30 18:54
gde33being against everything is also a kind of stupidJun 30 18:55
MinceRand since the IT industry manages to sell to the common consumer, it's being bent into the shape the common idiot appreciatesJun 30 18:55
MinceRit's getting to the point where an IT professional can't get work doneJun 30 18:55
gde33indeedJun 30 18:55
gde33oh since the 90's I didnt even want to work in IT anymoreJun 30 18:56
gde33fucking garbageJun 30 18:56
gde33stupid people have their place in developmentJun 30 18:57
gde33they are useful for UI testing, writing documentation and making tutorialsJun 30 18:58
gde33high end nerds cant do UIJun 30 18:58
MinceRactually, high end nerds can do UIJun 30 18:58
MinceRbut it ends up a UI a smart person can use and actually do stuff withJun 30 18:58
gde33if you put random characters on the interface buttons the high end nerd can just use it as if nothing is wrongJun 30 18:58
MinceRthe common idiot wants some dumbed-down shiny crapJun 30 18:59
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gde33he doesnt understand how people fail to understand thingsJun 30 18:59
MinceRi don't see what business people who fail to understand things have with computersJun 30 18:59
gde33dumbed down UI is a sympthom of bad UI designJun 30 18:59
gde33you want the lerning curve to be as small as possibleJun 30 19:00
gde33expose the new user to as much power as he can comprehandJun 30 19:00
gde33it helps the high end nerd tooJun 30 19:00
gde33it is like any development, you want things to be as efficent as possibleJun 30 19:01
gde33gradual improvements have the drawback of confusing long term usersJun 30 19:01
gde33therefore it is good to work really hard at UI design early onJun 30 19:02
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gde33MinceR: in the old days good ui design looked like this http://badgerlandhomeloans.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/wi-mortgage-calculator.jpgJun 30 19:03
gde33They got the reset button wrong and the = is to small Jun 30 19:04
gde33ehh the = is to small on this one http://www.tampaymca.info/2cmby/images/images/Calculator_01.jpgJun 30 19:04
gde33onscreen interfaces can never compare to physical onesJun 30 19:04
gde33here the nerds are taking over http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71FFmguxgYL._SL1500_.jpgJun 30 19:06
MinceRfor the betterJun 30 19:06
gde33to some extend yes in other ways noJun 30 19:06
MinceRstill, at this point a touchscreen might work betterJun 30 19:07
gde33indeedJun 30 19:07
MinceRin at least one calculator application i can just swipe between sets of buttonsJun 30 19:07
gde33the common failure to me is when the functionality of things can not be learned from the interfaceJun 30 19:08
gde33it is not so hard to display a bit of code on a web page and link each instruction to documentationJun 30 19:08
gde33with limited experience in any language anyone would be able to read the codeJun 30 19:09
gde33a small box on the side with a short description of the instruction would go a long wayJun 30 19:10
gde33give it a read more button to a tutorialJun 30 19:10
gde33give the tutorial a link to the specsJun 30 19:10
gde33unless it is machine code the spec could point to its implementationJun 30 19:10
gde33if the interpreter is written in C point to that part of the codebaseJun 30 19:11
gde33then have the same thing againJun 30 19:11
gde33like that UI will teach people a lot about coding all without crufty webpages or slow booksJun 30 19:12
gde33in stead we have nerds evangelize against comments that describe what code doesJun 30 19:12
gde33and amazon paywallsJun 30 19:13
gde33lolJun 30 19:13
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MinceRand a supposedly "free" supposedly "init system" with messy code devoid of comments or documentationJun 30 19:14
gde33hahaJun 30 19:15
gde33code you cant interface withJun 30 19:15
gde33makes interesting reading while you rewrite the whole thingJun 30 19:15
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cubexyzpeople learn by looking at the simplest examplesJun 30 22:54
cubexyzI learned a lot by looking at tinywm.cJun 30 22:54
cubexyzany window manager is simply a collection of xlib function calls after allJun 30 22:54
cubexyzany init program is a collection of system function callsJun 30 22:58
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/original-unix-v5-init.c.txtJun 30 23:00
cubexyzcompare to v7:Jun 30 23:02
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/unix-v7-init.c.txtJun 30 23:02
cubexyzafter a long period of time a simple 200 line init program morphs into ....I guess it's around 800 lines of code or soJun 30 23:09
cubexyzprobably more than that actuallyJun 30 23:10
cubexyzmaybe there's a tinyinit.c somewhere :)Jun 30 23:12
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roy__https://twitter.com/Metztli_IT/status/616146048810008576Jul 01 03:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Metztli_IT: cc: @schestowitz https://t.co/5Z0oUhl75TJul 01 03:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@TheRegister: Script-blocker NoScript lets in ANYTHING from http://t.co/VpJfgT7J0e http://t.co/09lkeF0CYfJul 01 03:30
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roy__http://www.openssh.com/txt/release-6.9Jul 01 04:08
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r_schestowitz"Concerning the monitoring of IRC logs," said one person, "this information is not really "public" so it may be better to keep it it under wraps for the moment."Jul 01 04:52
r_schestowitzre EPOJul 01 04:53
r_schestowitz"As we said, it may be best to keep this particular aspect of the story quiet for the moment to avoid compromising any "sources"."Jul 01 04:55
r_schestowitzso they're spying on us..Jul 01 04:55
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/gordonbp/status/616184379837153280Jul 01 06:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@gordonbp: @schestowitz Seen this? Microsoft in the dark after Parliamentary email disrupted for three days http://t.co/QvodOn11GnJul 01 06:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.computerweekly.com | Microsoft in the dark after Parliamentary email disrupted for three daysJul 01 06:02
r_schestowitzWriting about it at this very moment (almost finished)Jul 01 06:02
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gde33|2who was the http://cosmicpenguin.com here again? my memories are failing to much ircJul 01 12:49
XRevan86gde33|2: msb__Jul 01 12:50
gde33|2XRevan86: thanks!Jul 01 12:50
gde33|2msb__: I reply your email from last week, enjoy!Jul 01 12:50
msb__Thanks!Jul 01 12:51
msb__WJul 01 13:04
msb__gde33|2: Wow, That is full of great ideas!  Jul 01 13:04
msb__OK if I publish it on my website, with your name of course?Jul 01 13:05
msb__I will link to it from the page with the final version of the thing that I sent out.Jul 01 13:07
msb__gde33|2: Would you please give a reference for that psychopath brain test?Jul 01 13:09
gde33|2msb__: there are lotsJul 01 13:12
gde33|2some articles try to leave doubt but there is no need for perfectionJul 01 13:12
gde33|2a healthy empathic brain lights up like a xmas tree Jul 01 13:12
gde33|2here is a doubter http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/psychopaths-might-have-an-impaired-empathy-circuit/Jul 01 13:13
msb__Does it require injection with some chemical?Jul 01 13:13
gde33|2http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/nov/25/could-a-brain-scan-diagnose-you-as-a-psychopathJul 01 13:14
gde33|2msb__: I'm not aware of the details, some years ago there was a guy on TV who argued it was easy to identify a healthy personJul 01 13:14
gde33|2if you want more accuracy you show more images and videos Jul 01 13:15
gde33|2it is endlessly more effective than say a lie detector testJul 01 13:15
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gde33|2msb__: just imagine watching someone cut off their finger, it should be easy to imagine the level of brain activity you will sufferJul 01 13:16
gde33|2in healthy people it is almost identical to cutting off your ownJul 01 13:16
gde33|2https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuronJul 01 13:17
msb__"parts of the brain lighting up" might be this:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomographyJul 01 13:20
gde33|2msb__: you could repeat the test regularly to improve the resultsJul 01 13:21
msb__which requires injection of a radioactive tracerJul 01 13:21
gde33|2the harm to the person is not really an issue in the face of the concequencesJul 01 13:21
gde33|2that said we have lots of tests Jul 01 13:21
gde33|2police and intelligence agencies have been using check lists for a long timeJul 01 13:22
msb__If we're going to test all candidates for public office or corporate/media leadership then it does.Jul 01 13:22
gde33|2it of course has to be a non invasive testJul 01 13:23
gde33|2but you dont have to feel sorry for the personJul 01 13:23
gde33|2we've starved 500 million people since 1973Jul 01 13:23
msb__I think psychopaths could learn to fool checklists like Robert Hare's.Jul 01 13:24
gde33|2oh god I seem to have that stat wrong, now I read a news clipping that claims 500 m starved between 1972 and 73Jul 01 13:24
MinceRunless their deficiency (psychopathy) makes them unable to do soJul 01 13:25
gde33|2you can work your way around doping tests tooJul 01 13:25
gde33|2it is not an excuse to eliminate the great majority of empathy free peopleJul 01 13:25
msb__Is there a non-injurious test for psychopathy that 'paths can't learn to fool?Jul 01 13:26
gde33|2older people are more likely to have a brain disorder and older psychopaths take bigger risksJul 01 13:26
gde33|2msb__: the guy on TV said it was easyJul 01 13:27
msb__That's what we need if we're going to test all political candidates, etc.Jul 01 13:27
gde33|2he was testing people for marketing departmentsJul 01 13:27
gde33|2because psychopaths have poor sales skillsJul 01 13:27
gde33|2msb__: or else millions of deaths is acceptable?Jul 01 13:28
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/xxdesmus/status/616250070829109252Jul 01 13:28
r_schestowitzCloudflareJul 01 13:28
msb__I would think "Buy this or I'll kill you!" would be pretty effective.Jul 01 13:28
gde33|2a 90 year old psycho doesn't care if the world is still here 20 years from nowJul 01 13:28
gde33|2msb__: not for long term relationsJul 01 13:29
gde33|2best marketeer can crawl in the skin of their victim :PJul 01 13:29
msb__I was kidding.Jul 01 13:29
msb__oog!Jul 01 13:30
MinceRgrossJul 01 13:30
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TechrightsBot-trHello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.75Jul 01 13:30
msb__Of course millions of deaths are not acceptable, but if the psych test requires injection of radioactive tracers, which will cause cancer with some probability, people won't accept that.Jul 01 13:32
gde33|2msb__: I dont know of course, but maybe you are talking about yourself? people who truly want to end the mess we are in are happy to give their life for the cause.Jul 01 13:33
gde33|2no self respecting psycho would want that injection :DJul 01 13:33
msb__No non-suicidal person would want it either.Jul 01 13:34
MinceRobviously, all non-suicidal people are psychopaths.Jul 01 13:34
msb__I have no wish to be a decision-maker, so there would be no reason to test me for psychopathy.Jul 01 13:35
gde33|2ehm? lolJul 01 13:35
MinceRcan't you just use fMRI instead?Jul 01 13:35
MinceRwon't work with people who have metal implants thoughJul 01 13:35
MinceR(note that PET and MRI are both extremely expensive)Jul 01 13:36
gde33|2worth every pennyJul 01 13:36
gde33|2msb__: anyway, limited results are good enough for nowJul 01 13:37
gde33|2no cocaine adicts for presidentJul 01 13:37
gde33|2no alcoholicsJul 01 13:38
msb__MinceR: Thanks, this looks promising:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_magnetic_resonance_imagingJul 01 13:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Functional magnetic resonance imaging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/mz58b ]Jul 01 13:38
MinceR:)Jul 01 13:38
gde33|2the slightest indication someone is not playing with a full deck should really be enough to exclude themJul 01 13:40
msb__That's not really an objective criterion.Jul 01 13:41
MinceR"power to the one who doesn't want it!"Jul 01 13:42
gde33|2msb__: it doesn't have to be fairJul 01 13:42
gde33|2we have many millions of people who are fit for the jobJul 01 13:42
gde33|2it is not about the candidate it is about everyone elseJul 01 13:43
gde33|2we must look at it from the psychopath perspectiveJul 01 13:43
gde33|2to them any flawed system is a sign of weaknessJul 01 13:43
gde33|2they will play the game of chess to win and by any rules establishedJul 01 13:46
gde33|2if the opponent is dumb he should loseJul 01 13:46
msb__Maybe the solution involves having fewer leaders and more democracy.   http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/31567-socialism-means-abolishing-the-distinction-between-bosses-and-employeesJul 01 13:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.truth-out.org | Richard D. Wolff | Socialism Means Abolishing the Distinction Between Bosses and Employees [ http://ur1.ca/mz5a1 ]Jul 01 13:47
gde33|2it is very easy to look at things from their perspective, humans are just resourcesJul 01 13:47
gde33|2nature is just resourcesJul 01 13:47
gde33|2msb__: you can do that tooJul 01 13:47
gde33|2but I'm looking for a permanent fixJul 01 13:47
gde33|2not something that might work for a few years or a few generationsJul 01 13:47
gde33|2your doubt about scans is also a cultural productJul 01 13:47
gde33|2you may expect lots of people to be against itJul 01 13:47
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msb__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_CorporationJul 01 13:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Mondragon Corporation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/mz5ap ]Jul 01 13:47
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gde33|2this is a result of being deprived of everything by the psychopathsJul 01 13:47
gde33|2people stop believing in answersJul 01 13:47
gde33|2maybe not you personallyJul 01 13:48
gde33|2but for the most part that is why people antagonizeJul 01 13:48
gde33|2it is like a race to the bottomJul 01 13:48
msb__Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.Jul 01 13:49
gde33|2yes, that is a nice way of putting itJul 01 13:49
gde33|2it is fully based on experience you see?Jul 01 13:49
msb__yesJul 01 13:50
gde33|2if there is lots of danger you start seeing danger everywhereJul 01 13:50
msb__The only way to guarantee that no psychopaths can ever get power would be to genetically modify humans so that strategy never arises.Jul 01 13:51
gde33|2I think we are abusing the psychopathsJul 01 13:51
gde33|2we want them to behave just like usJul 01 13:51
gde33|2they have to learn to mimic our behaviorJul 01 13:51
msb__But then when the insectoids and reptoids attack us, they will devour us.Jul 01 13:51
gde33|2they have very different priorities from oursJul 01 13:52
gde33|2we should respect thatJul 01 13:52
msb__I don't respect anyone who harms others.Jul 01 13:53
gde33|2animals harm other animals too, it is just what they doJul 01 13:53
msb__But the time may come when we'll need the psychopath brain type.Jul 01 13:53
gde33|2their ideology is about them, they might even understand collectivism but it isn't hardwiredJul 01 13:53
msb__If we are attacked by a species worse than ours, and with better technology.Jul 01 13:54
gde33|2if social humans fail to make society work being an egoist is the best choiceJul 01 13:54
gde33|2if the social humans refuse to deal with the egocentric problem they are on their way outJul 01 13:55
gde33|2it is equal to giving upJul 01 13:55
gde33|2evolution will murder them until non are leftJul 01 13:55
msb__Psychopathy and empathy are both natural results of evolution. Jul 01 13:58
msb__...which is based on individual success.Jul 01 13:58
msb__But psychopathy prevents species success.Jul 01 13:58
msb__Maybe most intelligent species succumb to it.Jul 01 14:00
msb__That's why the sky isn't full of saucers.Jul 01 14:00
msb__The Fermi ParadoxJul 01 14:00
gde33|2they are alone and we are legionJul 01 14:00
gde33|2some jokeJul 01 14:00
msb__I don't understand.Jul 01 14:01
gde33|2that we are so much stronger togetherJul 01 14:02
gde33|2the sky is the limit if we all work togetherJul 01 14:02
gde33|2then one guy comes along and tells you that he will be taking everything from usJul 01 14:02
gde33|2and many of us go ohhh to bad we cant do anything!Jul 01 14:03
msb__Those multiple clicking sounds are gun owners cocking their weapons.Jul 01 14:04
gde33|2we could change the game in a thousand ways, each will require simple effortJul 01 14:05
gde33|2very little effortJul 01 14:05
gde33|2for many the effort required is limited to not overshout a good thing with loser talkJul 01 14:05
gde33|2if only all the born losers could shut up for a while, we could take over in a heartbeatJul 01 14:06
msb__"losers" are mostly made, not born.  Cultural programming.  Sit-down-and-shut-up education.Jul 01 14:09
gde33|2yeahJul 01 14:09
gde33|2all we need is escape velocityJul 01 14:09
msb__Maybe start in regions and spread.  Like Mondragon.Jul 01 14:10
gde33|2that looks like an interesting storyJul 01 14:12
msb__Socialism without dictators.Jul 01 14:13
XRevan86Free software has many dictators too :). That's funny how many analogies can be found.Jul 01 14:14
XRevan86between real politics and softwareJul 01 14:14
msb__But in software they can't really dictate.Jul 01 14:15
msb__People are already using alpha Devuan successfully.Jul 01 14:16
XRevan86msb__: Lack of actual territory makes it real easy to fork software.Jul 01 14:16
msb__Yes!Jul 01 14:16
msb__Also that replication is free.Jul 01 14:16
XRevan86There is an analog of territory: userbase, but that's a fady one.Jul 01 14:16
XRevan86LibreOffice didn't have to start a bloody war to get part of OpenOffice "territory" :).Jul 01 14:17
MinceRfree software is not socialismJul 01 14:17
msb__he userbase is big enough to support adequate competent administrationJul 01 14:18
msb__The userbase only has to be big enough to support adequate competent administrationJul 01 14:19
XRevan86MinceR: Okay, it's either libertarianism ("permissive") or communism :).Jul 01 14:19
XRevan86(GPL)Jul 01 14:19
MinceRGPL is very much not communismJul 01 14:19
MinceRit relies on the idea of owning copyrightJul 01 14:19
XRevan86MinceR: Hmm, that is true. Then it's socialism after all.Jul 01 14:20
msb__That's only needed to  protect it against  predatory capitalism.Jul 01 14:21
XRevan86communism wouldn't need hacks like thatJul 01 14:21
MinceRit's also not socialismJul 01 14:21
msb__It is from each (voluntarily) according to his ability, to each according to his need.Jul 01 14:21
MinceRalso, it doesn't involve who owns means of production eitherJul 01 14:21
msb__The means of production -- toolchains -- is also free software.  So everybody can own it.Jul 01 14:23
gde33|2people just randomly write bits of code then, as if by magic, a working application appearsJul 01 14:24
gde33|2well.... kinda...Jul 01 14:24
MinceRthe hardware is more of a means of productionsJul 01 14:24
MinceRsoftware can be copied practically at no costJul 01 14:25
XRevan86Can a right to commit be a mean of production in free software?Jul 01 14:25
MinceRi don't think soJul 01 14:26
MinceRthat's an administrative privilegeJul 01 14:26
MinceRdenied that, you can still commit into your own repo/forkJul 01 14:26
msb__ExactlyJul 01 14:26
msb__I think free software has capitalists worried, and not just microsoft.Jul 01 14:28
MinceRit seems the capitalists have respondedJul 01 14:28
MinceRso we got uefi, intel boot guard and systemd.Jul 01 14:28
msb__and kde4Jul 01 14:29
MinceRand gnome3, and kde5Jul 01 14:29
XRevan86KDE is totally uncommercial.Jul 01 14:30
MinceRkde5 will introduce a dependency on systemd.Jul 01 14:30
XRevan86msb__: Even if they broke things you like, it's still uncommercial.Jul 01 14:30
msb__but Trinity is a successful fork of kde3Jul 01 14:31
msb__and has promised never to use systemdJul 01 14:32
msb__kde4 broke virtual desktops, and activities don't seem to be as convenientJul 01 14:33
MinceRit broke plenty of things in the pursuit of blingJul 01 14:33
msb__yep, about 140 different bling adjustments, IIRCJul 01 14:34
msb__Probably more now.Jul 01 14:35
msb__Amazing what people will fall for if it's called "improvement".Jul 01 14:36
msb__If it ain't broke, don't fix it!Jul 01 14:36
MinceRi'm all for improvementsJul 01 14:37
MinceRbut a more monolithic design is not an improvementJul 01 14:37
MinceRneither is the panel randomly forgetting its settings.Jul 01 14:37
msb__kde4 does that?Jul 01 14:38
MinceRyupJul 01 14:38
MinceRat least for meJul 01 14:38
XRevan86I didn't get that when I was using KDE 4Jul 01 14:38
MinceRdid, until i got rid of itJul 01 14:38
msb__amazing!Jul 01 14:38
msb__Multiple virtual desktops used to be considered one of the most important advantages of Linux.  They make uncluttered working on multiple projects so much easier.  But when kde4 came along people forgot about them.Jul 01 14:43
gde33|2tabbed browsingJul 01 14:43
msb__kde4 sabotaged that augmentation of the human mind.  That's why I think it was intentional.Jul 01 14:44
msb__I'm sure ASUS will always make good AMD mobos with UEFI that can be turned off.Jul 01 14:45
msb__There are many tens of millions of Linux users.Jul 01 14:46
msb__If not, I'll ask MinceR to smuggle me something from Hungary.Jul 01 14:48
MinceRi don't think hungary will be a good place for getting general-purpose computersJul 01 14:49
msb__Or North Korea could always use the cash.Jul 01 14:49
MinceRnorth korea doesn't have the technologyJul 01 14:49
MinceRand they don't care for cashJul 01 14:50
XRevan86MinceR: Well, they do.Jul 01 14:50
msb__Not for wafer-fab, but I'll bet they can do multilayer PCBs.Jul 01 14:50
msb__At worst, asus will make a mobo where you can turn off uefi by cutting a trace with an exacto knife.  ms won't be able to complain.Jul 01 14:53
MinceRwhy asus?Jul 01 14:53
msb__They make great mobos.  I've always used them.Jul 01 14:54
MinceRalso, i'm more concerned with laptopsJul 01 14:54
MinceRi tend to use laptopsJul 01 14:54
MinceRthen again, maybe we can stick something like an intel nuc board in something like a Pi-Top ( http://www.pi-top.com/ ) and get a powerful enough laptopJul 01 14:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.pi-top.com | pi-topJul 01 14:55
MinceRmaybe the design could even be adapted to fit a mechanical keyboardJul 01 14:55
msb__nuc-board?Jul 01 14:55
msb__Does it have a little reactor?Jul 01 14:56
MinceRnoJul 01 14:57
MinceRhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Unit_of_ComputingJul 01 14:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Next Unit of Computing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/mz5sc ]Jul 01 14:57
MinceRthough i guess a little reactor could help with the battery life issuesJul 01 14:57
msb__What does a Pi-Top cost?Jul 01 15:02
MinceR$299.99Jul 01 15:02
MinceRi'm not sure if that includes the raspberry piJul 01 15:03
msb__and the keyboard is what?  capacitive with no tactile feedback?Jul 01 15:03
MinceRseems like it comes with a pi2 and a microsd card with additional swJul 01 15:04
MinceRlooks like an ordinary scissors+rubberdome+membrane thingJul 01 15:04
MinceRnot my thingJul 01 15:04
MinceRthen again, it's difficult to fit cherry mx switches into current laptop form factorsJul 01 15:04
MinceRthere's like 1 laptop i'm aware of that comes with them, and it's an enormous beastJul 01 15:05
msb__scissors?Jul 01 15:05
MinceRthe usual thing on laptopsJul 01 15:05
MinceRhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Scissor-switch_keyboardJul 01 15:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Keyboard technology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/mz5uf ]Jul 01 15:05
MinceRhttp://www.pi-top.com/components/rpi_2Jul 01 15:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.pi-top.com | pi-topJul 01 15:06
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msb__How come in these Canadian TV shows -- Lost Girl, (Jessica) King -- the good guys are always drinking booze?Jul 01 20:26
msb__3 shots of Toronto's CN Tower in the first 5 minutesJul 01 20:31
msb__ 4 in 10Jul 01 20:37
msb__5 in 16Jul 01 20:44
msb__6, 7 in 22Jul 01 20:53
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msb__8 in 25, 9 in 39, Jul 01 21:27
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MinceRmsb__: i'm guessing ethanol took over tobacco's role as the cool drugJul 02 04:25
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1/status/616522891895640064Jul 02 05:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@SleepyPenguin1: NHS IT failures mount as GP data system declared unfit for purpose @ruskin147 @schestowitz http://t.co/AizL6ZgB8SJul 02 05:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> m.theregister.co.uk | NHS IT failures mount as GP data system declared unfit for purpose • The RegisterJul 02 05:06
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Metztli_IT/status/616537342694703104Jul 02 05:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Metztli_IT: .@schestowitz #Debian #Stretch/#Sid's #Iceweasel build (@firefox) 39.0 is working fine here ;-) http://t.co/ohE9yASQwFJul 02 05:26
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     France: ‘tax source code will be made public’Jul 02 05:33
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/92sTgqApBt (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 05:33
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzbbnJul 02 05:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | France: ‘tax source code will be made public’ | Tux MachinesJul 02 05:33
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Tanglu 3 RC1 Has systemd 221, Linux Kernel 4.0,Jul 02 05:33
TweetTuxMachines                 KDE Plasma 5.3 and GNOME 3.16Jul 02 05:33
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/SEtvqgeI0k (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 05:33
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzbboJul 02 05:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Tanglu 3 RC1 Has systemd 221, Linux Kernel 4.0, KDE Plasma 5.3 and GNOME 3.16 | Tux MachinesJul 02 05:33
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1/status/616539863383449600Jul 02 05:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@SleepyPenguin1: Welcome to Aarhus. Registration for the LibreOffice Conference is now open @ruskin147 @schestowitz http://t.co/2F7jLS7bbwJul 02 05:36
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> conference.libreoffice.org | About Aarhus » LibreOffice ConferenceJul 02 05:36
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Metztli_IT/status/616541834756501504Jul 02 05:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Metztli_IT: It's probably time that you considered @CloudSigma's cool #cloud and/or @googlecloud (#GCE)—and bid a #FuckYouAmazon https://t.co/KwbaOZM3otJul 02 05:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #Amazon Says I Need to Sue in Order to Merely Find Out Who Uses Their Own Facilities (AWS) to Attack My Site http://t.co/OBGlYbJTMM #awsJul 02 05:41
r_schestowitzAha, I'm not touch 'cloud' nonsense. People should control their own servers.Jul 02 05:42
r_schestowitzAha, I'm not touching 'cloud' nonsense. People should control their own servers.Jul 02 05:42
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Metztli_IT/status/616545824089083904Jul 02 05:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Metztli_IT: .@schestowitz @CloudSigma @googlecloud well, you can locally make your own imgs, encrypt'em…& subsequently upload ;-) http://t.co/CiOVH6pViMJul 02 05:58
r_schestowitzThat would beat the purpose of it allJul 02 05:58
r_schestowitzhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCtzTYIUgAA9Enw.jpgJul 02 05:59
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/616551114406785024Jul 02 06:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz I'm torn. Mint? Another Ubuntu variant? Finally learn Arch? It's a tough decision.Jul 02 06:18
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Vecchi_Paolo/status/616556124712628224 https://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/616556957915328512Jul 02 06:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Vecchi_Paolo: @schestowitz They need to look busy on something else not to talk about #Office365 #fail as it may hurt ads revenue http://t.co/0yEOjyU4o2Jul 02 06:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.computerweekly.com | Microsoft in the dark after Parliamentary email disrupted for three daysJul 02 06:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz And it sounds like code dumping, which isn't the same as participation. Without community, code is dead.Jul 02 06:40
r_schestowitzmarketingJul 02 06:40
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/616557670196203520Jul 02 06:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz Which is disappointing. Their platform is such a wonderful place to deploy open source.Jul 02 06:44
r_schestowitzand to state DDOS attacks  http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2015/07/02/aws-ddos-and-stonewalling/ removing liability http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2015/06/28/aws-ddos/Jul 02 06:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Amazon Says I Need to Sue in Order to Merely Find Out Who Uses Their Own Facilities (AWS) to Attack My Site [ http://ur1.ca/mzb2e ]Jul 02 06:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-schestowitz.com | schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Amazon AWS Used for DDOS Attacks Against My Web Sites, Amazon Takes 14 Hours to Reply But Not Take Action (Updatedx5) [ http://ur1.ca/mzb2g ]Jul 02 06:45
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/kstallett/status/616558133482233856Jul 02 06:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@kstallett: @schestowitz Makulu constructor is an excellent idea. A great way to pre setup an distro for a family member.Jul 02 06:46
r_schestowitzIf only they got their English right. I think the French devs write their announcements.Jul 02 06:46
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/616558932694278144Jul 02 06:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz Much like open source, AWS can be used for good or evil. I've had my problems with Amazon's foolish rigidity, too.Jul 02 06:50
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/ShaneHudson/status/616559296676003841Jul 02 06:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ShaneHudson: @schestowitz @kstallett didn't Microsoft announce an official Linux distro?Jul 02 06:50
r_schestowitzNo, rumour, unless you mean SUSEJul 02 06:50
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/ShaneHudson/status/616559907811258368Jul 02 06:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ShaneHudson: @schestowitz @kstallett Ah yes it was an april fool, silly meJul 02 06:52
r_schestowitzhttp://linux.slashdot.org/story/15/06/30/0058243/interviews-linus-torvalds-answers-your-questionJul 02 06:55
r_schestowitz2nd question, he disappoints.  Then again he does go to great lengths toJul 02 06:55
r_schestowitzstay away from use space.Jul 02 06:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.slashdot.org | Interviews: Linus Torvalds Answers Your Question - SlashdotJul 02 06:55
oiaohmReally the linus repsonse to the init system should have been expected.   Sysvinit is broken design that had to be replaced.   Linus does not in fact demard a particular init system.Jul 02 07:39
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu Touch Web Apps Push Notifications AreJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines                 Coming Soon, Here's a Demo VideoJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/x0mSaj4ZGY (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 07:50
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu Touch Web Apps Push Notifications Are Coming Soon, Here's a Demo Video | Tux MachinesJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Nominate a free software community contributorJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines                 in Cascadia http://t.co/fUQkgkABTxJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzce6Jul 02 07:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Nominate a free software community contributor in Cascadia | Tux MachinesJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Interviews: Linus Torvalds Answers YourJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines                 Question http://t.co/z8RKBfd3LKJul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 07:50
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzce7Jul 02 07:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Interviews: Linus Torvalds Answers Your Question | Tux MachinesJul 02 07:50
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Motorwayviewer/status/616585936227430400Jul 02 08:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Motorwayviewer: @schestowitz not sure why people would continue going here #unsafeJul 02 08:41
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Motorwayviewer/status/616585936227430400Jul 02 08:41
r_schestowitzoiaohm: do you like systemd?Jul 02 08:41
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     EU court to decide on PC and software bundlingJul 02 08:42
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/oFtxfTowf5 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 08:42
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzctoJul 02 08:42
r_schestowitz(not a trick queston)Jul 02 08:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | EU court to decide on PC and software bundling | Tux MachinesJul 02 08:42
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oiaohmr_schestowitz: not exactly like systemd.   Don't absolutely hate it.  Jul 02 09:04
oiaohmr_schestowitz: basically issues I had with sysvinit I don't have with systemd.Jul 02 09:05
oiaohmBut systemd is not without is problems.Jul 02 09:05
oiaohmr_schestowitz: really I wish openrc was more completeJul 02 09:05
cubexyzsystemd is anti-unixJul 02 09:05
oiaohmcubexyz: I would not say that.Jul 02 09:06
cubexyzsure it isJul 02 09:06
oiaohmNo it really not.Jul 02 09:06
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/unix-philosophy.txtJul 02 09:06
oiaohmsystemd is modular.  Made up of stack of individual programs glued under 1 porject.Jul 02 09:06
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oiaohmcubexyz: systemd is like coreutils from gnu.Jul 02 09:07
oiaohmSo yes systemd does follow the idea of Unux as much as gnu coreutils do.Jul 02 09:07
oiaohmHow much is bound into one project is a worry Jul 02 09:08
cubexyzbinary log files? really?Jul 02 09:08
cubexyzthat's not unixJul 02 09:08
oiaohmjournald uses either binary log files or syslogJul 02 09:09
oiaohmAlso binary log files has been done by closed source unix.Jul 02 09:09
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Metztli_IT/status/616592408063553536Jul 02 09:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Metztli_IT: #FOSS hacker found dead 2002 aided #Venezuela state oil IT 2offset #USA-backed coup vs #Chavez http://t.co/WXShfnY0H6 http://t.co/ehLTK0p1L7Jul 02 09:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> translate.google.com | Google TranslateJul 02 09:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Metztli_IT: #FOSS hacker found dead 2002 aided #Venezuela state oil IT 2offset #USA-backed coup vs #Chavez http://t.co/WXShfnY0H6 http://t.co/ehLTK0p1L7Jul 02 09:10
oiaohmcubexyz: systemd is over 100 indivudal programs.Jul 02 09:12
cubexyzand I'm not sure why you compare coreutils to systemdJul 02 09:13
oiaohmcubexyz: and each one of those programs is todo 1 particular task well.   So yes systemd is very much unix philosophy when you look under the hood.Jul 02 09:13
oiaohmsysvinit was make one program a shell do everything.Jul 02 09:14
oiaohmIf something was not unix philosophy it sysvinit.Jul 02 09:14
oiaohmcubexyz: systemd is a bundle of a stack of untils that could in fact be broken up very much in the same way coreutils is.Jul 02 09:16
oiaohmLike running systemd without journald does in fact work.Jul 02 09:16
cubexyzwe should at least have the option of not using systemdJul 02 09:20
oiaohmDebian has not ruled out using openrc in future when it matures.Jul 02 09:21
cubexyzinit used to be a small C programJul 02 09:21
cubexyzit was only about 400 lines long in the systemIII eraJul 02 09:21
cubexyzit wasn't some huge monolithic thingJul 02 09:21
oiaohmBut kernels back then were also less complex.Jul 02 09:21
oiaohmAlso behaved different to a Linux kernel.Jul 02 09:22
cubexyza lot of folks left Fedora after 15Jul 02 09:22
cubexyzI never asked for systemdJul 02 09:23
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/616596541642567680Jul 02 09:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz Would it be worth letting CloudFlare worry about the problem?Jul 02 09:23
r_schestowitzNo, #cloudflare is even worse than #amazon #aws for numerous reasons I covered before.Jul 02 09:23
oiaohmcubexyz its double sided yes you never asked for systemd but you never worried about the fact that sysvinit was based on design ideas that do not apply to the Linux kernel.   sysvinit is based on PID as means to track services.  This does not apply to a Linux kernel.Jul 02 09:26
oiaohmThe fact sysvinit was a complete miss fit to Linux kernel design means there is no choice to replace it at some poing.Jul 02 09:27
oiaohmpoing/pointJul 02 09:27
oiaohmWhy was sysvinit such a miss fit.   Stupid idea that init systems had to be cross platform with no exact consideration if they in fact could possibly work correctly.Jul 02 09:27
oiaohmcubexyz: you have to remember Ubuntu went upstart.  Upstart become a failure because the listerned to the anti-cgroup without in fact choosing on techical merit.Jul 02 09:29
oiaohmWorking init system on Linux kernel has no option without custom patching the Linux kernel but to use cgroups.Jul 02 09:29
oiaohmDebian has tried over 20 different init systems looking for a replacement to sysvinit before the recent change to systemd.Jul 02 09:30
oiaohmcubexyz: basically you have had head in sand not to be aware distrobutions were looking for a replacement.Jul 02 09:30
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/616599039010865152Jul 02 09:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz I'll have to check your booking to see what you've written.Jul 02 09:31
*TweetTuxMachines @voidquest44 favourited 'EU court to decide on PC and software...'Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     EU court to decide on PC and software bundlingJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines retweeted by    http://t.co/oFtxfTowf5 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines @voidquest44    Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdafJul 02 09:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | EU court to decide on PC and software bundling | Tux MachinesJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     antiX 15 Officially Released, Based on Debian 8Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 "Jessie" but Without systemdJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/waq8Ruh4ok (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdagJul 02 09:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | antiX 15 Officially Released, Based on Debian 8 "Jessie" but Without systemd | Tux MachinesJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux Kernel 3.10.82 LTS Is a Very Small UpdateJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 with Five Fixes http://t.co/JJselxMq6NJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 09:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Kernel 3.10.82 LTS Is a Very Small Update with Five Fixes | Tux MachinesJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdaiJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Open standards lower costs, French IT firms sayJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/EXbAh1p6ZV (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdakJul 02 09:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Open standards lower costs, French IT firms say | Tux MachinesJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     StratOS Kickstarter Project Claims Full MobileJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 Convergence with GNOME, Likely a ScamJul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/NRBG46fZkg (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 09:34
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdamJul 02 09:34
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | StratOS Kickstarter Project Claims Full Mobile Convergence with GNOME, Likely a Scam | Tux MachinesJul 02 09:34
oiaohmcubexyz: by the way  Fedora change to upstart as of fedora 9  then to systemd as of fedora 15.   Yet you are not calling for upstart to be maintianed or fixed.Jul 02 09:38
oiaohmLots of people calling for sysvinit back were not infact using sysvinitJul 02 09:38
cubexyzoiaohm, I'm running sysvinit on Fedora 14 on one boxJul 02 09:39
cubexyzit's the defaultJul 02 09:39
cubexyzthere's no upstart on itJul 02 09:39
cubexyzmaybe it's an option, I don't knowJul 02 09:39
oiaohmFedora 14 by default install was upstartJul 02 09:43
oiaohmMaybe you had upgraded threw from Fedora 8Jul 02 09:43
cubexyzdamn, it looks just sysvinit thoughJul 02 09:46
cubexyzI expected to see /sbin/upstartJul 02 09:47
cubexyz/sbin/service --status-all (same)Jul 02 09:47
oiaohmThe reason why you don't have the lost service issue is the ptrace tracking of serices upstart uses that some services hate.Jul 02 09:48
cubexyz/sbin/service cups status (same)Jul 02 09:48
cubexyzit looks so much the same Jul 02 09:49
oiaohmupstart and openrc look very sysvinit ish.Jul 02 09:49
cubexyzok, I missed that. Thanks for pointing that outJul 02 09:49
oiaohmBut they don't behave like sysvinitJul 02 09:49
oiaohmso you want something like openrc/upstart not sysvinit.Jul 02 09:50
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cubexyzI think I could live with thatJul 02 09:50
cubexyzif they work with the same commands that's a bonusJul 02 09:51
oiaohmnot only live with also using a init system that is in fact compadilbe with the kernel.Jul 02 09:51
oiaohmBasically upstart upgrade to use cgroups or openrc would be valid options.Jul 02 09:51
cubexyzI assume runlevels are the same then?Jul 02 09:52
cubexyzwhy did Fedora switch from upstart to systemd?Jul 02 09:53
oiaohmupstart uses ptrace in the Linux kernel to track services to make sure it can kill them.Jul 02 09:54
oiaohmThis upsets closed source services with anti-debugging.Jul 02 09:54
oiaohmYes running ptrace on a service looks like you are running debugging on it.Jul 02 09:54
cubexyzclosed source services such as...?Jul 02 09:55
oiaohmorcale databaseJul 02 09:55
oiaohmAnd a few others bug orcale database is a fairly major issue when it will not run.Jul 02 09:55
oiaohmOrcale database has no problem being tracked by cgroups.Jul 02 09:56
oiaohmopenrc supports bsd or sysv based init configuration.   One extra is the conf.d directory for containing cgroups limitations and the like to apply to services.Jul 02 09:57
oiaohmcubexyz: there are a few closed source game servers that run on Linux as well that will not tollerate being ptracedJul 02 09:58
cubexyzI can still do: "/sbin/chkconfig --list"Jul 02 09:59
oiaohmcubexyz: with openrc in sysv configuration yes.Jul 02 10:01
cubexyzchkconfig was a Berkeley thing I thinkJul 02 10:01
oiaohmOf course openrc in a bsd confgiuration its not going to work.Jul 02 10:01
oiaohmNo chkconfig is a reimplementation of a IRIX feature by Redhat developers.Jul 02 10:02
oiaohmchkconfig is a sysvinit kind of thing because redhat built it that way.Jul 02 10:02
oiaohmhttp://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/chkconfig-on-freebsd-to-start-services-automatically-initial-boot-time/Jul 02 10:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.cyberciti.biz | chkconfig on FreeBSD To Start Services Automatically At Initial Boot Time [ http://ur1.ca/mzdko ]Jul 02 10:03
oiaohmBasically its one of the supprises for those who start running BSD is the fact chkconfig disapepars cubexyzJul 02 10:03
oiaohmThe best sysvinit like init system that is still actively maintained is openrcJul 02 10:06
cubexyzlet me check pdp-11 sysvJul 02 10:07
cubexyzthe FC1 man page mentions the 4th Berkeley Distribution for chkconfigJul 02 10:08
cubexyzit's in IRIXJul 02 10:09
cubexyzLinuxJul 02 10:10
cubexyzugh, confusingJul 02 10:11
oiaohmcubexyz: its more confusing than you can dreamJul 02 10:12
oiaohm4.3 berkeley distribution is where what we call modern day BSD init starts.Jul 02 10:13
oiaohmBefore that it was a lot closer to sysvinit.Jul 02 10:13
oiaohmchkconfig idea is first implemtend in IRIX appears in some of the early BSD before disappearing.Jul 02 10:15
oiaohmcubexyz: yes reading Linux man files can lead you into hell thinking command exist on BSD that have not been there for over 20+ years.Jul 02 10:17
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Solus Gets Linux Kernel 4.1.1 LTS and UEFIJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines                 Fixes http://t.co/aFUYGiO3bVJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdvfJul 02 10:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Solus Gets Linux Kernel 4.1.1 LTS and UEFI Fixes | Tux MachinesJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu MATE hardware partnership withJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines                 LibreTrend http://t.co/34S4xZ5vL8Jul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 10:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu MATE hardware partnership with LibreTrend | Tux MachinesJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdvhJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu MATE Project Donates Money to Geany,Jul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines                 Transmission, and MATE DevsJul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/vqV3tOEwtx (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 10:39
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzdvlJul 02 10:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu MATE Project Donates Money to Geany, Transmission, and MATE Devs | Tux MachinesJul 02 10:39
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Intel Compute Stick with Ubuntu Goes on Sale,Jul 02 11:41
TweetTuxMachines                 Lower Specs than Windows VersionJul 02 11:41
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/Zc73ojb0aU (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 11:41
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzehuJul 02 11:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Intel Compute Stick with Ubuntu Goes on Sale, Lower Specs than Windows Version | Tux MachinesJul 02 11:41
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Mageia 5 Linux Distro Offers New Tools,Jul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines                 Improved Stability http://t.co/XflV708e7kJul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 11:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Mageia 5 Linux Distro Offers New Tools, Improved Stability | Tux MachinesJul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzehwJul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     DigiKam 4.11.0 Released With Bug Fixes,Jul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines                 Install/Update In Ubuntu 15.04/Linux MintJul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines                 "Refaela" Or Other DarivativesJul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/HjKNBaCAcG (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 11:42
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzehxJul 02 11:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | DigiKam 4.11.0 Released With Bug Fixes, Install/Update In Ubuntu 15.04/Linux Mint "Refaela" Or Other Darivatives | Tux MachinesJul 02 11:42
r_schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/6296180Jul 02 11:46
r_schestowitz"you had a 3840 x 2160 or even 4096 x 2160 CRT? don’t believe you!"Jul 02 11:47
r_schestowitzDual head CRT until 2007.Jul 02 11:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Stumbling into the world of 4K displays [UPDATED] https://major.io/2015/06/30/stumbling-into-the-world-of-4k-displays/ … CRTs were affordable, worked well at this resJul 02 11:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> major.io | Stumbling into the world of 4K displays [UPDATED] - major.io [ http://ur1.ca/mzejl ]Jul 02 11:47
r_schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/6291618Jul 02 11:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: They ‘R’ Coming: More #Microsoft Money for the @LinuxFoundation http://techrights.org/2015/07/01/the-r-consortium/Jul 02 11:49
r_schestowitz"Linux foundation always was a trojan horse. uefi etc."Jul 02 11:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | They ‘R’ Coming: More Microsoft Money for the Linux Foundation | Techrights [ http://ur1.ca/mz67i ]Jul 02 11:49
r_schestowitzintel pays for complicity. And Red Hat... well... ahem, systemdJul 02 11:49
r_schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/6292231Jul 02 11:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: UK Heatwave: Temperatures on the tube are going to exceed the legal limit for transporting cattle http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-heatwave-temperatures-on-the-tube-are-going-to-exceed-the-legal-limit-for-transporting-cattle-10356439.html #uk #londonJul 02 11:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.independent.co.uk | UK Heatwave: Temperatures on the tube are going to exceed the legal limit for transporting cattle - Home News - UK - The Independent [ http://ur1.ca/mzekb ]Jul 02 11:49
r_schestowitz"Tube, cattle transport, are more or less the same."Jul 02 11:50
r_schestowitz"lol"Jul 02 11:50
r_schestowitzCattle have more freedom from 9-5Jul 02 11:50
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r_schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/6286867Jul 02 12:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/615594133445591040Jul 02 12:17
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@quinnnorton: While you were all celebrating and getting gay married, SCOTUS upheld the death penalty and struck down mercury pollution regs.Jul 02 12:17
r_schestowitz"Good on the IDs part. Not so good on the capital punishment and mercury things."Jul 02 12:17
r_schestowitz"Also struck down ID’s for voting."Jul 02 12:17
r_schestowitz> You wrote: Facebook does absolutely nothing for a person's life. It does nothing for traffic, either. A huge waste of one's time and erosion of privacy.Jul 02 12:46
r_schestowitz>Jul 02 12:46
r_schestowitz> Me: A rhetorical question...Jul 02 12:46
r_schestowitz> How could Facebook have become so successful? It boggles the mind.Jul 02 12:46
r_schestowitzGood for advertisers. Mining minds, pushing them some customised brainwash.Jul 02 12:46
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/ml2mst/status/616639420792471552Jul 02 12:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@ml2mst: I wanted to reserve my 10K tweet for @schestowitz who is the reason I started Tweeting. Thank you for all your great work Roy!Jul 02 12:46
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/schestowitz/status/616610026707415040Jul 02 12:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: What We Call Security Isn’t Really Security http://t.co/rSj6YBL3Bd "security industry can’t agree on a definition of security."Jul 02 12:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> darkmatters.norsecorp.com | What We Call Security Isn't Really Security - DarkmattersJul 02 12:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu MATE hardware partnership withJul 02 12:56
TweetTuxMachines                 LibreTrend https://t.co/51ffOUL2I0Jul 02 12:56
TweetTuxMachines                 (ubuntu-mate.org)Jul 02 12:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-SSL connect error ( status 0 @ https://ubuntu-mate.org/blog/ubuntu-mate-hardware-partnership-with-libretrend/ )Jul 02 12:56
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzf7bJul 02 12:56
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu MATE Project Donates Money to Geany,Jul 02 12:56
TweetTuxMachines                 Transmission, and MATE DevsJul 02 12:56
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/U6bFNaaa21 (news.softpedia.com)Jul 02 12:56
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Ubuntu MATE Project Donates Money to Geany, Transmission, and MATE Devs - SoftpediaJul 02 12:56
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Intel Compute Stick with Ubuntu Goes on Sale,Jul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines                 Lower Specs than Windows VersionJul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/ll0OMgtiyb (news.softpedia.com)Jul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfdoJul 02 13:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Intel Compute Stick with Ubuntu Goes on Sale, Lower Specs than Windows Version - SoftpediaJul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Terraria 1.3 Release Coming Later This MonthJul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines                 With Many Improvements http://t.co/kHJE2suY6hJul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfdpJul 02 13:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Terraria 1.3 Release Coming Later This Month With Many Improvements - PhoronixJul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     ZFS On Linux 0.6.4.2 Brings Linux 4.1 Support,Jul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines                 Fixes http://t.co/xNDRyI1Kvd (www.phoronix.com)Jul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfdrJul 02 13:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | ZFS On Linux 0.6.4.2 Brings Linux 4.1 Support, Fixes - PhoronixJul 02 13:14
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Fedora For MIPS Is Now Out In Testing, SupportsJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines                 The Creator CI20 http://t.co/xVz0G1lRGRJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfooJul 02 13:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Fedora For MIPS Is Now Out In Testing, Supports The Creator CI20 - PhoronixJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     6-Way File-System Comparison On The Linux 4.1Jul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines                 Kernel http://t.co/UHU8MjNh2iJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 13:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | 6-Way File-System Comparison On The Linux 4.1 Kernel | Tux MachinesJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfoqJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Gaming http://t.co/6dEiYZWGjuJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfotJul 02 13:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Gaming | Tux MachinesJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's howtos http://t.co/aZUX68JCgnJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 13:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux MachinesJul 02 13:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzfouJul 02 13:46
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Software http://t.co/I0bSAWSHsNJul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzgggJul 02 14:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Software | Tux MachinesJul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's leftovers http://t.co/7I1chYDwErJul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 14:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux MachinesJul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzgghJul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Links 2/7/2015: KDE Plasma 5.3.2, antiX 15Jul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines                  http://t.co/Ax9301on48 (techrights.org)Jul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzggnJul 02 14:59
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Links 2/7/2015: KDE Plasma 5.3.2, antiX 15 | TechrightsJul 02 14:59
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Microsoft Gradually Embraces, Extends,Jul 02 16:10
TweetTuxMachines                 Extinguishes Linux Foundation as a FoundationJul 02 16:10
TweetTuxMachines                 of GNU/Linux http://t.co/x4YIcGcAwMJul 02 16:10
TweetTuxMachines                 (techrights.org)Jul 02 16:10
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzh7uJul 02 16:10
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Gradually Embraces, Extends, Extinguishes Linux Foundation as a Foundation of GNU/Linux | TechrightsJul 02 16:10
*TweetTuxMachines @mccourt_360 favourited 'Microsoft Gradually Embraces, Extends, Extinguishes Linux Foundation as...'Jul 02 16:27
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/Y67SucsSkQJul 02 16:27
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 16:27
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhdqJul 02 16:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 02 16:27
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Exclusive interview with Hans de RaadJul 02 16:28
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/y80qusowac (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 16:28
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhdsJul 02 16:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Exclusive interview with Hans de Raad | Tux MachinesJul 02 16:28
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     7 stories that make you feel good about openJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines                 source in 2015 (so far) http://t.co/0eGVyHc99GJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 16:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | 7 stories that make you feel good about open source in 2015 (so far) | Tux MachinesJul 02 16:29
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Kodi 15.0 Release Candidate 1 ArrivesJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/IsxlZqk0oZ (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 16:29
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Kodi 15.0 Release Candidate 1 Arrives | Tux MachinesJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux Kernel Gets a Patch for Dell AirplaneJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines                 Mode Switch http://t.co/2HoVhpUW7GJul 02 16:29
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Kernel Gets a Patch for Dell Airplane Mode Switch | Tux MachinesJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzheaJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/G0khj1rXecJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 16:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhebJul 02 16:29
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     BQ Aquaris E5: An Ubuntu Edition Phone thatJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines                 severely disappoints http://t.co/co2IlNFKXRJul 02 16:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.techrepublic.com | BQ Aquaris E5: An Ubuntu Edition Phone that severely disappoints - TechRepublicJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.techrepublic.com)Jul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhg7Jul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Fedora 23: Python 3 Default Approved; NetizenJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines                 Spin Rejected http://t.co/qCqB4uT0tBJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jul 02 16:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Fedora 23: Python 3 Default Approved; Netizen Spin Rejected - PhoronixJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhg8Jul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Learn #OpenStack with @LinuxFoundationJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines                 Instructor Tim Serewicz https://t.co/mRGOyZ8qFdJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.linux.com) selling trainingJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhg9Jul 02 16:33
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linux.com | Learn OpenStack with Linux Foundation Instructor Tim Serewicz | Linux.comJul 02 16:33
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Free Professional Creation Suite Blender 2.75Jul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines                 Arrives with AMD GPU SupportJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/rDZdAEl3ge (news.softpedia.com)Jul 02 16:38
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Free Professional Creation Suite Blender 2.75 Arrives with AMD GPU Support - SoftpediaJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Windows Lookalike Q4OS Finally Gets a Live CDJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/YohgKkm8vx (linux.softpedia.com)Jul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhiaJul 02 16:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Windows Lookalike Q4OS Finally Gets a Live CD - SoftpediaJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Next Tizen Smartphone is the Samsung Z3, we nowJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines                 have a model number SM-Z300HJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/tpNihdrd1B (www.tizenexperts.com)Jul 02 16:38
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tizenexperts.com | Next Tizen Smartphone is the Samsung Z3, we now have a model number SM-Z300HTizen ExpertsJul 02 16:38
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     What You Need to Know About Fedora’s SwitchJul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines                 From Yum to DNF http://t.co/BvccDGQzV3Jul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.linux.com)Jul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhkcJul 02 16:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linux.com | What You Need to Know About Fedora’s Switch From Yum to DNF | Linux.comJul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     6-Way File-System Comparison On The Linux 4.1Jul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines                 Kernel http://t.co/jqhANKZeOkJul 02 16:42
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | 6-Way File-System Comparison On The Linux 4.1 Kernel - PhoronixJul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhkeJul 02 16:42
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Exclusive interview with Hans de RaadJul 02 16:43
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/3eJXmDz2hk (www.linuxveda.com)Jul 02 16:43
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxveda.com | Exclusive interview with Hans de Raad - Linux VedaJul 02 16:43
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhkgJul 02 16:43
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Kodi 15.0 Release Candidate 1 ArrivesJul 02 16:44
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/ON1kM2kJtp (www.phoronix.com)Jul 02 16:44
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhl5Jul 02 16:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Kodi 15.0 Release Candidate 1 Arrives - PhoronixJul 02 16:44
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux Kernel Gets a Patch for Dell AirplaneJul 02 16:45
TweetTuxMachines                 Mode Switch http://t.co/aElC2ZOvuKJul 02 16:45
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Linux Kernel Gets a Patch for Dell Airplane Mode Switch - SoftpediaJul 02 16:45
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Microsoft Gradually Embraces, Extends,Jul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines retweeted by    Extinguishes Linux Foundation as a FoundationJul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines @schestowitz    of GNU/Linux http://t.co/x4YIcGcAwMJul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines                 (techrights.org)Jul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzhnaJul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/G0khj1rXecJul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines retweeted by    (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines @schestowitz    Jul 02 18:02
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mziacJul 02 18:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Gradually Embraces, Extends, Extinguishes Linux Foundation as a Foundation of GNU/Linux | TechrightsJul 02 18:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 02 18:02
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MinceRhttp://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2015/Jul/11Jul 02 20:12
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msb__Regarding Linus and systemd: The man is not stupid, nor is he unaware of userland.  I think he was probably threatened, him and his family, by who/whatever is trying to control/destroy Linux with systemd, kde4/5, and uefi.Jul 02 23:32
msb__Regarding the Venezuelan hacker who was murdered:  It would have been easy to steal his bike without killing him.  The US regards Venezuela as a major enemy, because it is partly socialist, and thus gives other nations the idea that they could distribute profits to the people instead of to the ultra-wealthy.Jul 02 23:34
msb__The US attempted a coup against the Venezulan government in February 2015.   http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Almost-All-Opposition-Leaders-Knew-About-Venezuelan-Coup-Plot-20150215-0006.htmlJul 02 23:37
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.telesurtv.net | 'Almost All' Opposition Leaders Knew About Venezuelan Coup Plot | News | teleSUR English [ http://ur1.ca/jqs5v ]Jul 02 23:37
msb__Emails containing that URL were blocked by Comcast -- never sent.Jul 02 23:37
msb__.Jul 02 23:41
msb__http://www.activistpost.com/2015/07/bill-gates-temporary-sterilization.htmlJul 02 23:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.activistpost.com | Activist Post: Bill Gates' Temporary Sterilization Microchip In Beta Female Testing By End of Year [ http://ur1.ca/mzksl ]Jul 02 23:42
msb__The chip works by releasing a small quantity of sterilizing hormone.   It will be used in Third World nations.  Jul 02 23:43
msb__Activist Post is pretty reliable.Jul 02 23:44
msb__Being under the skin, and having only a small antenna, the chip could not be activated from a great distance, let alone from a satellite.  But a transmitter 20 feet away could probably trigger it.Jul 02 23:49
cubexyzI was wrong about AntiXJul 03 00:20
cubexyzit has systemd, even though I thought I removed itJul 03 00:20
cubexyzcould be because I've installed it on two machines, but only removed systemd on one of themJul 03 00:22
cubexyzyes, that's what happenedJul 03 00:23
cubexyzso I wasn't really wrong I supposeJul 03 00:23
cubexyzkind of neat, it seeems to switch over to init automatically after "apt-get remove systemd"Jul 03 00:24
cubexyzbut it runs systemd as default, one has to watch out for thatJul 03 00:26
cubexyzI was running upstart on Fedora 14 without even realizing itJul 03 00:27
cubexyzit seems it use the same command structure as sysvinitJul 03 00:28
cubexyzif you look at the process status on Fedora 14 it shows "/sbin/init" which looks very similar to sysvinit "init [5]"Jul 03 00:29
cubexyzmy plan is to learn about all the different init systemsJul 03 00:34
cubexyzit's odd, I was using upstart on one laptop since 2011 without knowing I was running UpstartJul 03 00:38
cubexyzI was also running one Fedora 10 box (also had upstart) which had an uptime of 165 daysJul 03 00:39
cubexyzbut the longest uptimes were on openbsd (bsd init) and my server (sysvinit)Jul 03 00:40
cubexyzalso I had an uptime of 273 days on Fedora 16 (my sole systemd box)Jul 03 00:40
cubexyzbut so far I have to say that openbsd was the most reliableJul 03 00:41
cubexyzI don't reboot much so I didn't really notice the faster boot times, or measure itJul 03 00:42
r_schestowitzantiX has a new releaseJul 03 01:07
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cubexyzI'm still on AntiX 13.2 and I'm happy with itJul 03 01:14
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cubexyzoiaohm, there's no democracy with systemdJul 03 02:01
cubexyzthey tried to force it down everyone's throatJul 03 02:02
cubexyzI have to study the situation more, but I think I'm OK with upstartJul 03 02:02
cubexyz/etc/inittab could be differentJul 03 02:08
cubexyzDebian _forced_ Ubuntu into systemd, I heard the Canonical folks were quite happy with upstartJul 03 02:11
cubexyzShuttleworth: "systemd is hugely invasive and hardly justified"Jul 03 02:13
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Top 5 Android phones — July 2015Jul 03 02:18
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/poaOariSkX (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 02:18
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzm1jJul 03 02:18
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Top 5 Android phones — July 2015 | Tux MachinesJul 03 02:18
cubexyzas long as upstart didn't change everything like /etc/cron.hourlyJul 03 02:19
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msb__I and everyone else have been using sysvinit for years.  Why shouldn't I continue?  I might have some unreaped zombies sometime?Jul 03 03:06
cubexyzexcept we haven't all been using sysvinitJul 03 03:11
cubexyzFedora 9: uses upstart, released in 2008Jul 03 03:12
cubexyzalso openbsd uses bsd initJul 03 03:12
cubexyzvoid linux uses runitJul 03 03:12
cubexyzthings have diverged from sysvinit a lot, which I'm starting to clue intoJul 03 03:13
cubexyzso far I'm not seeing any defunct processes with upstart or bsd init, and bsd has been up for over a yearJul 03 03:14
cubexyzis upstart miles better than sysvinit? I doubt itJul 03 03:15
cubexyzgoogle chrome uses upstart, so it must be decentJul 03 03:17
cubexyzI think openSUSE switched to systemd in 12.1Jul 03 03:18
cubexyzsome tablets even run upstartJul 03 03:18
cubexyzif you're comfortable with sysvinit you should be OK with upstartJul 03 03:19
cubexyzit seems to be designed as a work-alike Jul 03 03:19
XRevan86cubexyz: Upstart is just terrible.Jul 03 03:19
XRevan86it's like systemd but uglyJul 03 03:19
XRevan86cubexyz: If you're comfortable with Upstart you should be OK with systemd.Jul 03 03:21
cubexyzupstart seems very similar to sysvinitJul 03 03:23
cubexyzchkconfig is still thereJul 03 03:23
cubexyzservice --status-allJul 03 03:23
cubexyzwhat's ugly about upstart?Jul 03 03:24
msb__What's wrong with having a few zombies?  Are they going to eat my brain?Jul 03 03:24
cubexyzsudo service cups restart <- also the same as sysvinitJul 03 03:25
XRevan86cubexyz: "service --status-all" is there because Ubuntu makes symlinks in /etc/init.d/ to upstartJul 03 03:25
cubexyzit's Fedora 14 actuallyJul 03 03:25
XRevan86openSUSE does systemd symlinks like /usr/sbin/rcfooJul 03 03:26
cubexyzok, well I'm running traditional sysvinit on some boxes stillJul 03 03:26
msb__ok.  MOST people have been using sysvinit with Linux for 14 years or more.  What actual  problems have they had because of that?Jul 03 03:26
XRevan86> what's ugly about upstart?Jul 03 03:27
XRevan86Upstart jobsJul 03 03:27
cubexyzI've been using sysvinit a lot longer than 14 years, and I honestly can't recall any problems with itJul 03 03:27
msb__I've occasionally looked at some of the device scripts.  I can understand them.  No big deal.Jul 03 03:28
cubexyzmsb__, which init system are you using now?Jul 03 03:28
XRevan86Anyway, this compatibility with service, chkconfig is just compatibility.Jul 03 03:28
msb__I've stopped and started the network occasionally.  EasyJul 03 03:28
XRevan86upstart doesn't need thatJul 03 03:28
msb__sysvinitJul 03 03:28
msb__several years old version of suseJul 03 03:29
cubexyzare you _sure_ it's sysvinit and not upstart? do a man init to be certainJul 03 03:29
XRevan86cubexyz: He's using openSUSE 11.4.Jul 03 03:29
msb__root says init is /sys/bin/initJul 03 03:30
msb__XRevan86: Thanks. now I'll get hacked.Jul 03 03:31
XRevan86msb__: If you don't have ssh-server then probably not :).Jul 03 03:32
cubexyzok, I think upstart was in openSUSE 11.3 but not as defaultJul 03 03:32
msb__I have ssh-agentJul 03 03:33
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XRevan86msb__: It's a thing for remembering your ssh key.Jul 03 03:33
XRevan86clientyJul 03 03:33
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msb__I don't even know how that shit works.Jul 03 03:34
XRevan86Old GNU/Linux is somewhat safe when it gives nothing to network (http server, ssh server, MTA, etc.).Jul 03 03:34
msb__no apacheJul 03 03:35
msb__use simple stupid programs for getting and sending mailJul 03 03:35
msb__If I have zombies I'll kill 'em myself.Jul 03 03:38
XRevan86msb__: Zombies are not easy to kill.Jul 03 03:38
msb__Cut off their heads.  That works for almost everything. -- BuffyJul 03 03:38
XRevan86msb__: What to do with headless zombies?Jul 03 03:38
msb__kill -9 ?Jul 03 03:38
XRevan86msb__: Nope.Jul 03 03:39
msb__as root?Jul 03 03:39
cubexyzkill the parentJul 03 03:39
msb__I thought zombies' parents _are_ dead.Jul 03 03:40
cubexyzI don't think defunct processes use any resources?Jul 03 03:40
XRevan86msb__: Zombies do not exist without parents.Jul 03 03:40
XRevan86https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1175324 wait, WTF?Jul 03 03:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-bugzilla.mozilla.org | 1175324 – Version # is not shown in Add-on Manager [ http://ur1.ca/mzmpa ]Jul 03 03:42
XRevan86One can ask: will you, XRevan86, swallow even this?Jul 03 03:43
XRevan86And I will answer: yes, I will.Jul 03 03:43
cubexyzdo a pstree and you can see the parentsJul 03 03:43
msb__I've been up for 3 weeks.  No zombies.Jul 03 03:44
XRevan86msb__: You have an init that slayes them for you.Jul 03 03:44
msb__Right, sysvinit.Jul 03 03:45
msb__Don't even need Buffy.Jul 03 03:45
msb__or systemdJul 03 03:46
msb__even though oiaohm says I doJul 03 03:46
XRevan86msb__: If someone said to you that only systemd is good at slaying zombies, that's probably a lie.Jul 03 03:47
msb__he says sysvinit won't slay _some_ zombies, but I forget which.Jul 03 03:47
cubexyzkilling the parent should "slay the zombie"Jul 03 03:49
cubexyzeven on old old old linux :)Jul 03 03:49
cubexyzjust don't kill initJul 03 03:51
cubexyzso as long as the parent process isn't PPID 1Jul 03 03:53
XRevan86cubexyz: So the best way to handle zombie is to not have a defunct init.Jul 03 03:54
XRevan86I'll go now :).Jul 03 04:06
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Android-powered BlackBerry Venice with aJul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines                 slide-out keyboard reportedly headed to AT&TJul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/qjyWOE51ME (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzn4iJul 03 04:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android-powered BlackBerry Venice with a slide-out keyboard reportedly headed to AT&T | Tux MachinesJul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     From the Editors: When did open-source softwareJul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines                 get so scary? http://t.co/WGGHewFt8LJul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 04:39
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | From the Editors: When did open-source software get so scary? | Tux MachinesJul 03 04:39
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzn4jJul 03 04:39
oiaohmcubexyz: upstart using ptrace and systemd and openrc using cgroup catchs breakaway processes that sysvinit misses.Jul 03 04:44
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/simransingh/status/616856706044297216Jul 03 04:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@simransingh: @schestowitz I used to enjoy watching Monica Seles playJul 03 04:44
oiaohmcubexyz: note these are not zombie processesJul 03 04:45
r_schestowitzhttps://www.joindiaspora.com/posts/6297129Jul 03 04:45
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Weeks ago I criticised the #gchq connected @Control_Risks for using immature Matrix (movie) as their backdrop. They've just changed it.Jul 03 04:45
r_schestowitz"I suppose they are watching you."Jul 03 04:45
r_schestowitzI know they are because insiders told me soJul 03 04:45
oiaohmcubexyz: these are where a service has forked something off to process something and they been come unconnected to the PID so sysvinit does not kill them.Jul 03 04:45
oiaohmcubexyz: and the result is file can remain locked and other things so preventing services from being able to restart.Jul 03 04:45
oiaohmmsb__: you also need to read this.  I did not say systemd was better at killing zombie process.   Zombie processes don't consome large amounts of cpu time or possibley crimple the complete system.Jul 03 04:49
oiaohmmsb__: broken ways processes from services can in fact consume all your ram and cpu time.Jul 03 04:50
msb__oiaohm: I've been  using Linux for about 14 years and this has never happened to me.Jul 03 04:53
msb__always used sysvinit and leave computer running all the timeJul 03 04:54
msb__oiaohm: have you ever seen this happen?Jul 03 04:55
cubexyzresource exhaustion is always possibleJul 03 04:55
msb__(without purposely making it happen)Jul 03 04:55
cubexyzand I can't think of any operating system that's invulnerable to itJul 03 04:56
oiaohmmsb__: I have had it happen 8 different times.Jul 03 04:56
msb__What caused it?Jul 03 04:56
oiaohmOne time was network issue causing postgres replication system to go left.Jul 03 04:57
oiaohmSo it has spawned a nice lot of processes sysvinit had lost.Jul 03 04:57
oiaohmI have had mysql do it another.Jul 03 04:57
oiaohmI have had apache do it to me running php websites Jul 03 04:57
oiaohmresource exhaustion is always possible true but when it happening knowing what in heck is causing it is extrealy helpful.  As well as being absolutely being able to kill the item that has gone out of control.Jul 03 04:59
oiaohmmsb__: put it this way not one of the 8 times it happened to me has been the same or a case of intentionally setting out to do it.Jul 03 05:00
msb__I run a system monitor that shows cpu and memory usage per process.Jul 03 05:00
msb__The only trouble I get is from having hundreds of tabs open in firefox because I'm too lazy to remove/bookmark them.Jul 03 05:00
oiaohmmsb__: when it a fork aways gone stupid seeing per process is not that useful.Jul 03 05:01
oiaohmSeeing per group that X group is running a lot of short running processes you know it gone nuts.Jul 03 05:01
msb__When it starts using almost the whole cpu it can use up something in X and crash it.  So I have to kill ff before that happens, every few days.Jul 03 05:02
oiaohmmsb__: I have a few servers with a few thousand users hitting them.Jul 03 05:03
msb__when you say group do you mean cgroup?Jul 03 05:03
msb__the monitor also shows total cpu usage graphically, so it's easy to see if something's gone berserkJul 03 05:05
oiaohmBack latterJul 03 05:06
msb__There was also some semantic analyzer that kde4 ran automatically that used up both cpu cores for hours.  I found it and made it nonexecutable.Jul 03 05:08
msb__eventually did the same to kde4Jul 03 05:08
cubexyzI'm using kdm to front-end all my other wm'sJul 03 05:17
cubexyzjust learned how to add tinywm Jul 03 05:18
cubexyzso I'Jul 03 05:18
cubexyzso I'm extending KDE :)Jul 03 05:18
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cubexyzgot to hand it to the guy who wrote tinywmJul 03 05:19
cubexyzhe wrote it in 58 lines of CJul 03 05:19
oiaohmmsb__: showing total cpu usage does not tell you what server/user is repsonable.Jul 03 05:25
oiaohmmsb__: fun one was KDE starting mysql in user for indexing and that going wrong.   So it looks like mysql service had gone wrong.Jul 03 05:26
oiaohmYep I restarted a mysql service with absolutely no reason.Jul 03 05:26
oiaohmmsb__: grouping by cgroup/zones or bsd tty make it down right clear where the trouble is coming form.Jul 03 05:27
msb__oiaohm: but programs don't do cgroup/zones by themselves, right? you have to start them that way?Jul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Greek town of Livadeia switched to LibreOfficeJul 03 05:31
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-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Greek town of Livadeia switched to LibreOffice | Tux MachinesJul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Firefox 39 Arrives After a Three-Day DelayJul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/lyeCSGVXl8 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mznl2Jul 03 05:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Firefox 39 Arrives After a Three-Day Delay | Tux MachinesJul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Android-powered BlackBerry Venice with aJul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines                 slide-out keyboard reportedly headed to AT&TJul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/ecMAqT1Ea9 (phandroid.com)Jul 03 05:31
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mznl3Jul 03 05:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-phandroid.com | BlackBerry Venice slider with Android headed to AT&TJul 03 05:31
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/gnutelephony/status/616901160595812352Jul 03 05:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@gnutelephony: @feliciasonmez @glynmoody @schestowitz I cannot help but combine that article with this one http://t.co/e6vz2Xply1Jul 03 05:32
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.activistpost.com | Activist Post: Bill Gates' Temporary Sterilization Microchip In Beta Female Testing By End of YearJul 03 05:32
oiaohmmsb__: define you have to start them that way.  use of tty to split services bsd init does automatically on bsd.   Solaris SMF automatically creates and applies zones around services for you.   Systemd and openrc also automattically put cgroups around services.Jul 03 05:41
cubexyzanyone know how to screenshot the kdm screen?Jul 03 05:41
msb__a cameraJul 03 05:42
msb__oiaohm: Thanks!Jul 03 05:43
oiaohmmsb__: basically if someone want to keep to sysvinit configuration files and is happy to use openrc I will have absolutely no issue with them.Jul 03 05:44
oiaohmAt least the system is simple to track down when something is wrong.Jul 03 05:45
msb__oiaohm: So are mysql and postgres services?Jul 03 05:45
oiaohmmsb__: I have them as servicesJul 03 05:45
cubexyzif you install mysql-server I think it's set up as a serviceJul 03 05:46
oiaohmmsb__: I also have akonadi under my user running one.Jul 03 05:46
oiaohmmsb__: so if the service or the kde one goes nuts I really do need to know the difference clearly.Jul 03 05:46
oiaohmSo kill user or kill serviceJul 03 05:47
msb__Are there any disadvantages to using openrc compared to sysvinit?Jul 03 05:48
oiaohmOther than that openrc lack maturity Jul 03 05:48
oiaohmNothing.Jul 03 05:48
oiaohmopenrc support sysvinit and bsd style init files.Jul 03 05:49
oiaohmA pure sysvinit system cannot use bsd init files.Jul 03 05:49
msb__so openrc is a drop-in replacement for sysvinit?Jul 03 05:49
msb__how does it lack maturity?Jul 03 05:50
cubexyzhasn't been tested for 20+ years :)Jul 03 05:51
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/We3forDemocracy/status/616907216591810560Jul 03 05:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@We3forDemocracy: @schestowitz How good are you @ Quantum Physics skills Roy? Cause "Scotty", I would like to be beamed to a more humane & intelligent realityJul 03 05:52
r_schestowitzConvince people to reject bad broadcastJul 03 05:53
cubexyzok, figured it out:Jul 03 05:53
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/kdm.pngJul 03 05:53
cubexyzthose are all the wm's Jul 03 05:53
cubexyzyou add stuff to /usr/share/config/kdm/XsetupJul 03 05:55
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cubexyza possible security violation though :)Jul 03 05:55
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oiaohmmsb__:  cubexyz is right openrc is still very young  it has not got to 10 years yet.    There are a few issues with using it cgroups to limit stuff without causing disasters.Jul 03 05:56
oiaohmmsb__: basically the advance functionalty of openrc that is optional is not well enough tested yet.Jul 03 05:56
oiaohmmsb__: and of course sysvinit did not have any of that functionality.Jul 03 05:56
cubexyzdon't install skynet-init thoughJul 03 05:58
oiaohmmsb__: also note systemd lacks maturity and it kind of to be expected thinking it is only 5 years old.Jul 03 05:58
msb__systemd is also a takeover plotJul 03 05:59
oiaohmI want to see both openrc and systemd mature.Jul 03 05:59
cubexyzsystemd could be skynet ver 0.01Jul 03 05:59
msb__yepJul 03 05:59
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oiaohmInteresting enough both openrc and systemd don't need to run as PID1 by design.Jul 03 06:00
msb__or, what was that older one?  COLOSSUS?Jul 03 06:01
cubexyzfortunately all the AIs suckJul 03 06:01
cubexyzso far :)Jul 03 06:01
msb__Is there a god?  THERE IS NOW!Jul 03 06:02
cubexyzI wonder where KDM gets the text data fromJul 03 06:03
oiaohmThe story of systemd is a sad one.Jul 03 06:03
oiaohmThe reason why systemd starts is Ubuntu between CLA and anti-cgroup point of view triggers redhat to go off and make their own.Jul 03 06:04
oiaohmAlso a lot of the projects that systemd project has absorbed had not had anyone other than redhat patch for over 3 years.Jul 03 06:06
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msb__That's the cover story.  Another story is that Redhat is mobbed up with the US govt, which is controlled by US corporations, which want to kill Linux for the same reason that the US spent most of the 20th century attacking socialist nations.Jul 03 06:06
oiaohmmsb__: really if redhat wanted to destroy Linux there are way simpler ways todo that than attack the init system.Jul 03 06:07
msb__Gives the slaves the dangerous idea that they could stop giving all the wealth to the 0.1% richest.Jul 03 06:07
msb__oiaohm: This way has the advantage that it uses salami-slicing aka camel's nose under the tent.Jul 03 06:08
msb__aka boiling frogsJul 03 06:09
cubexyzexcept redhat makes major $$$ selling linux servicesJul 03 06:09
oiaohmmsb__: why include as a requirement of systemd that it could work without pid1Jul 03 06:09
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oiaohmsystemd is infact designed the means to run next to a completely different init system.Jul 03 06:09
msb__cubexyz: Sure, and they will continue to do so even when it's no longer really Linux.Jul 03 06:10
cubexyzok well that's creeping evil thenJul 03 06:10
oiaohmsysvinit and upstart were more designed to destory Linux.Jul 03 06:10
cubexyzoiaohm, that makes no sense :)Jul 03 06:10
cubexyzsysvinit goes back to system III UnixJul 03 06:10
oiaohmNeither sysvinit or upstart can run inside another init system.Jul 03 06:11
msb__oiaohm: you need to be more paranoidJul 03 06:11
cubexyzit was designed before Linux ever existedJul 03 06:11
oiaohmcubexyz: exactly the point.Jul 03 06:11
oiaohmIt was not design to work with Linux.Jul 03 06:11
oiaohmThe fact it would mafunction made unixs using better init systems look good.Jul 03 06:12
msb__oiaohm: watch the  911 videos in the orange box in my homepage cosmicpenguin.comJul 03 06:12
oiaohmIts also interesting with kdbus that is being designed as a loadable module.Jul 03 06:13
msb__oiaohm: Then ask yourself why the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq and murdered a million people in each.  Then ask yourself why it destroyed socialist Libya.  And why it's attacking Syria, Ukraine and Venezuela.Jul 03 06:14
oiaohmThe answer for the USA is simple.Jul 03 06:14
msb__oiaohm: There's more going on in the world than software.Jul 03 06:14
oiaohmNo wars no arms sales there complete finance system will fail.Jul 03 06:14
oiaohmUSA is one of the worlds largest arms makers.Jul 03 06:15
oiaohmmsb__: exactly why did the USA sell Iraq biological weapons.Jul 03 06:16
msb__oiaohm: That's not the whole answer.  The US ultrawealthy also want to control the world.  And they want to destroy socialism everywhere it exists so that they can siphon off all the money.Jul 03 06:16
oiaohmmsb__: or fund the sabom whosain to get into popwer.Jul 03 06:16
oiaohmUSA ultrawealthy LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLJul 03 06:16
oiaohmmsb__: have you not seeing the USA DebtJul 03 06:17
msb__oiaohm: because it wanted Iraq and Iran to kill each otherJul 03 06:17
msb__I doubt that it sold bioweapons to Iraq - just gave them.Jul 03 06:17
oiaohmmsb__: no the USA sold them.Jul 03 06:18
msb__for how much?Jul 03 06:18
oiaohmIt was the invoices that told the mil forces how much they were looking for.Jul 03 06:18
msb__for how much?Jul 03 06:19
oiaohmmsb__: I don't have the copy of invoice here. Jul 03 06:19
oiaohmhttp://www.usdebtclock.org/Jul 03 06:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.usdebtclock.org | U.S. National Debt Clock : Real TimeJul 03 06:19
cubexyzUS gov doesn't tell oiaohm everything :)Jul 03 06:20
msb__bioweapons self-replicate.  Only a starting culture is needed.Jul 03 06:20
msb__But oiaohm has latched on to US debt as the reason for it making war on the whole world for a century.  There's more to it than that.Jul 03 06:21
oiaohmNo it was the idea that USA is rich.Jul 03 06:22
msb__A few people in the US are very rich indeed.Jul 03 06:22
msb__Rich enough to control the govt and its huge military.Jul 03 06:23
oiaohmWhen it comes down to it notice two figs total assets per person 368.844 and ammount owed 818,548Jul 03 06:23
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oiaohmSo if the USA debt repayments ever failed and the debt was called in even the richest person the the USA would have nothing.Jul 03 06:23
msb__Average figures do not tell the story.Jul 03 06:24
oiaohmSo usa people are only rich on paper not rich by asset.Jul 03 06:24
msb__No, SOME few US people are rich enough in actual wealth to control the govt (and media).Jul 03 06:25
oiaohmmsb__: they do tell this story.   When debt it called in the assets of country can be held to account.   All current paper rich in banks can be instantly deleted as the USA currenty gets turn to being valued 0 to pay.Jul 03 06:25
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oiaohmSo the few people paper rich pulling the strings with the USA governement are very stupid.Jul 03 06:26
msb__A. they are also rich in gold silver and material assets like farms and factories  B.  other nations will be reluctant to "call in the debt" of a nation with enough H-bombs to destroy the world many times over.Jul 03 06:28
cubexyzhas that ever happened? one country calling in the debts of another?Jul 03 06:28
cubexyzor do they just forgive the debt?Jul 03 06:29
oiaohmmsb__: most of USA debt is with china.Jul 03 06:30
oiaohmChina the people there are truly rich.  Not just in paper but also have low debt.Jul 03 06:30
cubexyzhttp://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/11/the-long-story-of-us-debt-from-1790-to-2011-in-1-little-chart/265185/Jul 03 06:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theatlantic.com | The Long Story of U.S. Debt, From 1790 to 2011, in 1 Little Chart - The Atlantic [ http://ur1.ca/mzo32 ]Jul 03 06:30
cubexyzthey were doing great in 1835Jul 03 06:30
oiaohmChina could pay out there debts any time they want to.Jul 03 06:30
oiaohmAnother country that is supprising good is mexcio.Jul 03 06:31
oiaohmRussia and China are both in locations they can clear their debts.Jul 03 06:31
oiaohmWithout requiring there currenty to go to hell.Jul 03 06:31
oiaohmGreese of course makes USA look good.Jul 03 06:32
oiaohmJapan is the country I always wonder about.   Its so deep in the hole yet no one calls in its loans.Jul 03 06:33
oiaohmThe issue here  countries around the world have been running on their credit cards.Jul 03 06:35
msb__oiaohm: Why did the US attack Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela?  It had to spend money to buy weapons.  That increased its debt.Jul 03 06:36
msb__and LibyaJul 03 06:36
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oiaohmmsb__: where did the USA buy those weapons from.Jul 03 06:36
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msb__From US corporations.Jul 03 06:37
oiaohmUSA mostly buys weapons from the USA.Jul 03 06:37
oiaohmThen that funds USA companies to make weapons it exports to other countries.Jul 03 06:37
msb__But it increases the govt debt.Jul 03 06:37
oiaohmYou could say that every time the USA goes to war its a weapon demostration to sell product.Jul 03 06:37
oiaohmAnd to perform population control.Jul 03 06:38
msb__But why does the US selectively attack socialist nations?Jul 03 06:38
oiaohmRemember what I said about paper rich people in the USA being idiots.Jul 03 06:38
oiaohmUSA does not attack all socialist nations.Jul 03 06:39
oiaohmSocial nations that buy weapons from the USA the USA leaves alone.Jul 03 06:39
msb__It attacks all those not strong enough to fight back.Jul 03 06:39
oiaohmNot at all.Jul 03 06:39
cubexyzJapan: debt-to-GDP > 200%Jul 03 06:39
oiaohmUSA attacks countries that mostly buys weapons from russia and china.Jul 03 06:40
cubexyzwhich is odd because people do buy a lot of stuff made in JapanJul 03 06:40
oiaohmIn other words the competition in the global arms trade.Jul 03 06:40
oiaohmmsb__: I did have a list of socialist coutnries the USA sells arms to.Jul 03 06:41
oiaohmAnd the fact the USA never says a bad word about them.Jul 03 06:41
msb__oiaohm: You don't think rich people try to destroy socialism because they want to stay rich?Jul 03 06:41
oiaohmI think socialism has nothing todo with it msb__  I think socialism is just an excuse.Jul 03 06:42
oiaohmJust like they are terriorist is being used as an execuse now.Jul 03 06:42
oiaohmIts not like the USA has not sold weapons and trained terriorest themselves.Jul 03 06:42
msb__Yes it has.  To conquer nations and keep the world in fear so it accepts US attacks.Jul 03 06:44
oiaohmAnything about a country that means the USA is unable to effectively trade with a country to attempt to make some of their idiot paper rich people more rich.Jul 03 06:44
oiaohmWill see that country attacked.Jul 03 06:44
oiaohmmsb__: read the top 10 socialist countries http://blog.peerform.com/top-ten-most-socialist-countries-in-the-world/   Yep only 1 on that list has the USA ever threatend.Jul 03 06:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-blog.peerform.com | Top 10 Most Socialist Countries in the World - Peerform BlogPeerform | Peer to Peer Lending Blog [ http://ur1.ca/mzo94 ]Jul 03 06:51
oiaohmThe anti-socialism speach of the USA is not matched by actions.Jul 03 06:52
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msb__Those are mixed economies where the govt provides more benefits to citizens than the US does.  But they still allow capitalist to become wealthy by ripping off the poor and middle classes.  As exemplified by the popup window that wants to rob me by loaning me money at interest.Jul 03 07:03
msb__Real socialist nations -- Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Libya -- are the ones the US attacks and destroys.Jul 03 07:08
oiaohmYou just listed countries that Russia and china has historically provided arms to.Jul 03 07:16
msb__Yes because Russia and China were socialist and wanted to protect weaker socialist nations from capitalist US attacks.Jul 03 07:18
oiaohmIn affica and other places usa provided arms and equipment to other socialist nations.Jul 03 07:19
oiaohmReality you arguement msb__ does not follow up invenstagion.Jul 03 07:19
msb__The US govt murdered the socialist Patrice Lumumba.Jul 03 07:21
msb__Wealthy Americans financed and armed Hitler to murder socialist throughout Europe and USSR.Jul 03 07:24
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msb__http://cosmicpenguin.com/#US_NazisJul 03 07:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-cosmicpenguin.com | Human Society That Works For EveryoneJul 03 07:24
oiaohmmsb__: they have also financed to kill people calling for public votes and the like in non socialist countriesJul 03 07:25
oiaohmSorry its not that black and white.Jul 03 07:25
oiaohmUSA anything to make a buck no matter who has to die.Jul 03 07:26
msb__Sure.  The US opposes anything that gives people more power, because that gives the wealthy less opportunity to get more wealthy.Jul 03 07:26
oiaohmThe Yes Men - Acceptable Risk launch is a good video for how the USA operates.Jul 03 07:27
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msb__The US govt murdered John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King, all of whom wanted to give ordinary people more economic power.Jul 03 07:28
oiaohmAnti-socalism and Anti-terrorism add on anti-civildisobenance.   And you cover anyone Jul 03 07:28
msb__No, you don't cover the ultra-wealthy.Jul 03 07:29
oiaohmmsb__: Usa is plan and simple greedJul 03 07:29
msb__While the ultra-wealthy are terrorists, the US govt does not attack them.  It aids them, because they control the govt.Jul 03 07:29
oiaohmmsb__: those three cover anyone who is a threat to the ulta paper wealthy.Jul 03 07:29
oiaohmPlease note the terrorist card supplying/helping is used to remove those who get ultra paper wealthy and attempt to change the system.Jul 03 07:31
oiaohmUSA is a idiots reforcing a system operated by idiots.Jul 03 07:31
oiaohmI don't know anything other than USA defaulting that is going to fix it.Jul 03 07:32
oiaohmMaybe after defaulting they will at least grow a brain and understand that a country operating on the credit card is bad.Jul 03 07:33
msb__That won't eliminate the US military nor impoverish the non-paper ultra wealthy.  It will just starve and evict ordinary Americans.Jul 03 07:33
oiaohmBecause there paper money is only worth money if the country providing it is worth money.Jul 03 07:33
oiaohmYou have something badly wrong.Jul 03 07:34
oiaohmDepends on who the USA defaults to.Jul 03 07:34
oiaohmUSA defaults to china the USA might not be allowed a standing military.Jul 03 07:34
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1/status/616932292183871489Jul 03 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@SleepyPenguin1: Huge chunks of the site have gone down following a staff member’s departure @ruskin147 @schestowitz http://t.co/dl2k5jlWdvJul 03 07:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.newstatesman.com | Reddit rebellion: huge chunks of the site have gone down following a staff member’s departureJul 03 07:35
oiaohmJapan end of second world war so far in debt they had to default to the winners.Jul 03 07:35
oiaohmExactly how would the non paper ultra wealthy be existing.Jul 03 07:36
msb__Japan was defeated militarily.  How would China prevent the US from having a military?Jul 03 07:36
oiaohmRemember all gold in banks all land rights..... goes to the party that holds the debt.Jul 03 07:36
oiaohmmsb__: china can claim the metal of the USA mil weapons as payment for some of the debtJul 03 07:37
msb__How would China collect it?Jul 03 07:37
oiaohmHow does china collect the gold they recieve now to pay the debt.Jul 03 07:38
oiaohmThe USA hands it over not to have other issues.Jul 03 07:39
oiaohmCountries that have default to china have suffered some really bad things.Jul 03 07:40
oiaohmLike complete forrest in thoses countries national parks being cleared.Jul 03 07:40
msb__US citizens buy a lot of cheap goods from China.  China could threaten not to sell us anymore.  USians would starve.  But the US govt wouldn't care, and would not hand over any weapons,Jul 03 07:40
oiaohmmsb__: international laws you owe debt the result can be a zero trade position.Jul 03 07:41
msb__The US might fly some over, but the Chinese would not enjoy receiving them.Jul 03 07:41
oiaohmBasically USA unable to trade with anyone else they make some forms of token payment.Jul 03 07:41
oiaohmAttacking china would fail the token payment requirement.Jul 03 07:42
oiaohmAs I said being in debt can turn into a really nasty hole.Jul 03 07:42
msb__The US govt cares nothing for international law -- attacks and invades other nations constantly.Jul 03 07:42
oiaohmUSA need the protection of international waters todo a lot of that.Jul 03 07:43
oiaohmWhen in a zero trade location there is nothing in international law preventing your ships from just being sunk.Jul 03 07:43
msb__That's why it has a huge navy.Jul 03 07:43
oiaohmRemember zero trade its open season for pirates against you boats.Jul 03 07:44
oiaohmChina navy has todo nothing.Jul 03 07:44
msb__pirates against U-boats would not do wellJul 03 07:45
msb__US gets a lot of food from Mexico.  It still would.Jul 03 07:46
oiaohmmsb__: exactly why would Mexico if USD is worth 0Jul 03 07:47
oiaohmZero trade means you don't have a currency to trade with.Jul 03 07:47
msb__US still manufactures some goods here, and would sell them to Mexico for USD.Jul 03 07:48
oiaohmZero trade USD is worth nothing.Jul 03 07:48
msb__Says who?Jul 03 07:48
oiaohmSo USA would have to sell for mexio currenty.Jul 03 07:48
oiaohmThat is what happens when a country defaultsJul 03 07:49
msb__???Jul 03 07:49
oiaohmIn a major way.Jul 03 07:49
oiaohmTheir currency ceases to be usable for trade.  Heck even for taxJul 03 07:49
oiaohmThis is why countries with high debt levels should be focused on getting it under control.Jul 03 07:50
msb__The international trade and banking system is controlled by many of the same criminals that control the US govt.Jul 03 07:51
oiaohmNo Internation trade and banking system is controled mostly by the swiss.Jul 03 07:51
msb__The trade/debt rules that apply to other nations would not apply to the US.Jul 03 07:51
msb__The swiss Rothschilds?Jul 03 07:51
oiaohmThe swiss bankers make Rothschilds look like angels.Jul 03 07:52
oiaohmYou remember swiss bankers have no problem taken gold from your populations teeth.Jul 03 07:52
oiaohmTo pay down a debtJul 03 07:52
msb__Swiss = Nazis?Jul 03 07:53
oiaohmSwiss took the gold Nazis got from the constration camps to pay of debts the Nazis owed them.Jul 03 07:53
oiaohmSwiss was basically netural for the complete second war.Jul 03 07:54
msb__Because the Nazis were militarily defeated.Jul 03 07:54
oiaohmThey took what ever from who ever.Jul 03 07:54
oiaohmPure greedJul 03 07:54
oiaohmSwiss understand the meaning of being really rich.Jul 03 07:54
msb__The US can't be militarily defeated.Jul 03 07:54
oiaohmIf you cannot defeat a country by Militarily defeat them by money.Jul 03 07:55
msb__Paper cuts?Jul 03 07:56
oiaohmKind of.Jul 03 07:56
oiaohmHave you not noticed that USA means to make silcon chips has reduced.Jul 03 07:56
oiaohmSo  by making it cheaper to produce this stuff in china and other asian countries.Jul 03 07:57
oiaohmie not the USAJul 03 07:57
msb__Only because we can get them cheaper elsewhere.Jul 03 07:57
oiaohmThis is defeat by money.Jul 03 07:57
oiaohmWithout advanced silcon production you cannot make advanced weapons right msb__Jul 03 07:57
msb__Those factories can be rebuilt.Jul 03 07:57
msb__But with better, current, technology.Jul 03 07:58
oiaohmFrom where if you no longer have the trained and skilled popluation.Jul 03 07:58
oiaohmChina is willing to wage a war that lasts 300+ years.Jul 03 07:58
msb__US plenty of  trained and skilled,  Most of us are just out of work.Jul 03 07:59
msb__US has plenty of  trained and skilled,  Most of us are just out of work.Jul 03 07:59
oiaohmWarring States period in china is partly where there fight by money comes from.Jul 03 08:00
oiaohmNote I said 300 years msb__Jul 03 08:01
oiaohmChina is willing to wait the USA out.Jul 03 08:01
msb__Today a big war would last 3 days.Jul 03 08:01
oiaohmhope that people stop going after key jobsJul 03 08:01
oiaohmSo when the current trained die out there are no replacments.Jul 03 08:01
oiaohmAttack after the USA has let themselves become crippled.Jul 03 08:02
msb__rotsa ruckJul 03 08:02
oiaohmProblem is it working.Jul 03 08:02
oiaohmBefore china started trading heavily with the usa a lot of those highly trained people would have had no problem getting jobs.Jul 03 08:03
msb__US military not being defeated.   With remote-controlled drones it's much easier to fight.Jul 03 08:04
msb__oiaohm: Do you work in a bank or something?Jul 03 08:05
oiaohmhttp://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-building-42000-military-drones-should-america-worry-12856Jul 03 08:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nationalinterest.org | China Is Building 42,000 Military Drones: Should America Worry? | The National Interest Blog [ http://ur1.ca/mzouo ]Jul 03 08:06
oiaohmChina will have 6 to 1 in dronesJul 03 08:06
oiaohmSo china bigger per person army and a bigger drone army.Jul 03 08:07
oiaohmmsb__: I have worked at a bank.Jul 03 08:09
oiaohmThe problem is a lot of the arguements why the USA is not defeatable is not based on facts.Jul 03 08:10
msb__nationalinterest.org is BS.  Talks about US war on terror as if it were real.  US backs the terrorists.Jul 03 08:10
oiaohmThe reality is super power vs super power  USA is not getting stronger.Jul 03 08:10
msb__Once a nation has the power to kill everyone on the planet several times over, mutual strength does not matter.Jul 03 08:12
oiaohmYou are forgetting process of nuke disarmement.Jul 03 08:12
oiaohmChina, Russa and the USA all had the power to kill everyone on the planetJul 03 08:13
oiaohmOf course this is being disasmebled.Jul 03 08:13
oiaohmWhat is the finacal gain in killing everyone.Jul 03 08:13
msb__Considering fallout, they still do, and will.Jul 03 08:14
oiaohmFallout depends if that will be a issue.Jul 03 08:15
oiaohmYou have to remember china in hong kong are working on food production inside buildings.Jul 03 08:15
oiaohmLot of new china cities poplations can live there and never go outside.Jul 03 08:15
oiaohmSo threat of Fallout against china is almost a joke.Jul 03 08:16
oiaohmmsb__: see the problem when dealing with a side that is willing to take over 300 years and get everything in order first.Jul 03 08:17
msb__we must not allow a mineshaft gap!Jul 03 08:17
oiaohmChina it will be a direct strike or don't bother doing anything.Jul 03 08:18
cubexyzI'm going to guess that's from Dr Strangelove even though I've never seen itJul 03 08:18
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Top 5 Android phones — July 2015Jul 03 08:19
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/Wsk2DuV6jb (www.technobuffalo.com)Jul 03 08:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzoycJul 03 08:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.technobuffalo.com | Top 5 Android phones — July 2015Jul 03 08:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     25 Best Android Games from June 2015Jul 03 08:19
TweetTuxMachines                  http://t.co/b48uEP1J1x (phandroid.com)Jul 03 08:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzoydJul 03 08:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-phandroid.com | 25 Best Android Games from June 2015Jul 03 08:19
msb__Correct!  Well worth watching.Jul 03 08:19
oiaohmFrom what I see of the big picture long term for USA does not look good.Jul 03 08:20
oiaohmOf course USA could dig it way out of these problems if it gets some decent leader ship.Jul 03 08:21
msb__“The best laid schemes o' Mice an' Men,  Gang aft agley,” Jul 03 08:21
cubexyzthe Americans gave us Unix but also gave us Microsoft :)Jul 03 08:22
oiaohmmsb__: problem here USA is not even using anywhere near the best laid schemeJul 03 08:25
msb__Peter Sellers plays three different roles.Jul 03 08:26
oiaohmI like all the news about USA spying on the EU.   Most of that has to come by pine gap in AustraliaJul 03 08:26
msb__China's best-laid plans will fail too.Jul 03 08:27
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Fans of No-Contract Phones Get More AndroidJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines                 Choices http://t.co/c5imtJE67a (www.eweek.com)Jul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzp1hJul 03 08:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.eweek.com | Fans of No-Contract Phones Get More Android ChoicesJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Android Version History: A Timeline of NewJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines                 Features http://t.co/AFKfmGWGzrJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tomsguide.com) “five years… to become theJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines                 most popular”Jul 03 08:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tomsguide.com | Android Version History: A Timeline of New FeaturesJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzp1iJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Google's new Android One smartphone launches onJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines                 July 14 for Rs 12,000 http://t.co/zlQhmy1Yw8Jul 03 08:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-economictimes.indiatimes.com | Google's new Android One smartphone launches on July 14 for Rs 12,000 - The Economic TimesJul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines                 (economictimes.indiatimes.com)Jul 03 08:30
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzp1kJul 03 08:30
oiaohmmsb__: art of war always plan for failureJul 03 08:31
msb__written by Stanley Kubrick and Terry SouthernJul 03 08:31
msb__has some great lines:  "You can't fight here.  This is the War Room!"Jul 03 08:32
msb__But failure can't be planned for.  You don't know how it will fail.Jul 03 08:32
oiaohmReally the art of war how to plan for failure does cover how to avoid the worse outcomes of a failed plan.Jul 03 08:33
oiaohmNot knowing how a plan will fail don't do anything that will directly appear agressive.Jul 03 08:34
msb__The Pentagon refused to lend any support to the film after they read the script. Jul 03 08:36
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     The 10 best Android apps to run on yourJul 03 12:49
TweetTuxMachines                 Chromebook http://t.co/Bs8q2lEM64Jul 03 12:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.pcworld.com | The 10 best Android apps to run on your Chromebook | PCWorldJul 03 12:49
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.pcworld.com)Jul 03 12:49
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzr7pJul 03 12:49
msb__"don't do anything that will directly appear agressive"  That could make it difficult to pursue a war.  Jul 03 12:49
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     "releasing We Happy Few for Linux."Jul 03 12:50
TweetTuxMachines                 https://t.co/sEjpDlLPps (www.gamingonlinux.com)Jul 03 12:50
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzr7rJul 03 12:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gamingonlinux.com | We Happy Few Will Get Linux Support | GamingOnLinuxJul 03 12:50
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     LEGO Minifigures Online Released For Linux,Jul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines                 Some Thoughts https://t.co/BTvWdKN2U0Jul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.gamingonlinux.com)Jul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrhlJul 03 13:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gamingonlinux.com | LEGO Minifigures Online Released For Linux, Some Thoughts | GamingOnLinuxJul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Beautify your Linux Mint Cinnamon with theseJul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines                 simple tricks http://t.co/cYkhGdAovwJul 03 13:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxveda.com | Beautify your Linux Mint Cinnamon with these simple tricks - Linux VedaJul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.linuxveda.com)Jul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrhmJul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Long live ROS: Why the robotics revolution isJul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines                 being driven by open source developmentJul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/atrCyXsqOy (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 13:20
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrhnJul 03 13:20
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Long live ROS: Why the robotics revolution is being driven by open source development | Tux MachinesJul 03 13:20
r_schestowitz[13:06] <oiaohm> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/china-building-42000-military-drones-should-america-worry-12856Jul 03 13:22
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nationalinterest.org | China Is Building 42,000 Military Drones: Should America Worry? | The National Interest Blog [ http://ur1.ca/mzouo ]Jul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzJust read itJul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzIt's a neocon siteJul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzusually GOPish and hawkishJul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzand its point is,Jul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzWe in the US have tens of thousands of dronesJul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzbut when China does it, it's bad... because we're good, and there's bad.Jul 03 13:22
r_schestowitzOEDJul 03 13:22
r_schestowitz*they'reJul 03 13:23
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Q&A: Why Congress is Jumping on the Open SourceJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines                 Bandwagon http://t.co/8Yo8CvnSKnJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 13:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Q&A: Why Congress is Jumping on the Open Source Bandwagon | Tux MachinesJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzropJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ground zero for an open-source revolutionJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/iO9SlFxNTQ (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrorJul 03 13:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ground zero for an open-source revolution | Tux MachinesJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     4MLinux 13.0 Screencast and ScreenshotsJul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/UAQIQyTJiV (www.linuxquestions.org)Jul 03 13:44
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrouJul 03 13:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linuxquestions.org | 4MLinux 13.0 Screencast and ScreenshotsJul 03 13:44
r_schestowitzhttps://www.joindiaspora.com/posts/6298306Jul 03 13:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Thousands evacuated after train carrying toxic chemicals derails in Tennessee http://mashable.com/2015/07/02/train-derailment-tennessee/ maybe they should invest in their rail system, at lastJul 03 13:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> mashable.com | Thousands evacuated after train carrying toxic chemicals derails in Tennessee [ http://ur1.ca/mzrpk ]Jul 03 13:46
r_schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/6297551Jul 03 13:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: From the Editors: When did open-source software get so scary? http://sdtimes.com/from-the-editors-when-did-open-source-software-get-so-scary/ "VMware, Oracle, Microsoft and Cisco...caught infringing"Jul 03 13:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> sdtimes.com | From the Editors: When did open-source software get so scary? - SD Times [ http://ur1.ca/mzrq3 ]Jul 03 13:48
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Smartphones Are The New PC And */LinuxJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines                 RulesSmartphones Are The New PC And */LinuxJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines                 Rules http://t.co/PAyWHcMVQ8 (mrpogson.com)Jul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrxlJul 03 14:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-mrpogson.com | Smartphones Are The New PC And */Linux Rules | Robert PogsonJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Infinifactory Sandbox Puzzle Arrives on SteamJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines                 for Linux http://t.co/LOp6aSwaOLJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines                 (linux.softpedia.com)Jul 03 14:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Infinifactory Sandbox Puzzle Arrives on Steam for Linux - SoftpediaJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrxmJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Canonical Closes Exploit That AllowsJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines                 Installation of Altered Packages in Ubuntu OSesJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines                  http://t.co/XcGBHUnSgL (linux.softpedia.com)Jul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrxnJul 03 14:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Canonical Closes Exploit That Allows Installation of Altered Packages in Ubuntu OSes - SoftpediaJul 03 14:13
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     "Scientific Linux is supposed to be a serious,Jul 03 14:15
TweetTuxMachines                 stable, useful operating system. So is CentOS."Jul 03 14:15
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/yAIlQ9Bvun (www.dedoimedo.com)Jul 03 14:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.dedoimedo.com | Scientific Linux 7.1 review - More fiascoJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzryjJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Smartphones Are The New PC And */Linux RulesJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/YJIqswabjG (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrymJul 03 14:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Smartphones Are The New PC And */Linux Rules | Tux MachinesJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: KDE/Qt http://t.co/o68cMeW49aJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzrynJul 03 14:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: KDE/Qt | Tux MachinesJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Fedora Pinos to do for Video what PulseAudioJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines                 did for Audio http://t.co/nrjyLviKmqJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 14:16
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Fedora Pinos to do for Video what PulseAudio did for Audio | Tux MachinesJul 03 14:16
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzryoJul 03 14:16
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jurasick/status/617044012705431553Jul 03 15:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jurasick: @schestowitz or they'll finally get back to doing some work!Jul 03 15:00
r_schestowitzrewriting press releases or pressing publish on ghostwritten 'articles' from copywriters and E-mail marketers is not work?Jul 03 15:01
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jurasick/status/617046003074605056Jul 03 15:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jurasick: @schestowitz easiest way to work and earn a living😀. Conscience and self respect be damned.Jul 03 15:06
r_schestowitzNot part of the job. Pretending it is leads so-called journo grads to disappointment.Jul 03 15:07
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Scientific Linux 7.1 review - More fiascoJul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/Q95GA8qptq (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzsh1Jul 03 15:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Scientific Linux 7.1 review - More fiasco | Tux MachinesJul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     "Linux New Media...Working at that companyJul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines                 prepared me for the culture at Red Hat."Jul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/8HiNLRHeTE (opensource.com)Jul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzsh2Jul 03 15:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-opensource.com | Passion is the main ingredient at an open organization like Red Hat | Opensource.comJul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     VirtualBox 5.0 RC3 Brings VMM Fixes, Takes CareJul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines                 Of Some KDE DnD Problems http://t.co/cEVCVqi9hcJul 03 15:15
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jul 03 15:15
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | VirtualBox 5.0 RC3 Brings VMM Fixes, Takes Care Of Some KDE DnD Problems - PhoronixJul 03 15:15
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu Is Finally Fixing Its Annoying GRUBJul 03 16:03
TweetTuxMachines                 Setting http://t.co/FI6qaQdCaBJul 03 16:03
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:03
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzsy3Jul 03 16:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu Is Finally Fixing Its Annoying GRUB Setting | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:03
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Android Leftovers http://t.co/utOytuJSSAJul 03 16:03
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:04
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzsy5Jul 03 16:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:04
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: OSS http://t.co/64LxpLGg9AJul 03 16:04
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:04
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: OSS | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:04
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r_schestowitzhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Eyed_PeasJul 03 16:14
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | The Black Eyed Peas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ http://ur1.ca/mzt1u ]Jul 03 16:14
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Open source platform security considerationsJul 03 16:25
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/gbFnkACKA5 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:25
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzt5kJul 03 16:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Open source platform security considerations | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:25
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Ubuntu http://t.co/HDXk1sr2XdJul 03 16:26
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:26
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzt5tJul 03 16:26
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Ubuntu | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:26
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Links 3/7/2015: KDE Applications 15.04.3,Jul 03 16:26
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r_schestowitz>> > Sounds like it speaks of his highness, Microsoft Jack. Did you read my latest rebuttal to his BS?Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz> I thought he was retired, a quick googling shows he's continuing as a paid shill for the MICROS~1 organization. I listened to that audio and it was ludicrous seeing him desperately trying to pretend that Microsoft invented the first GUI. Charles Arther at least tried to pull him up.Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz>Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz> http://techrights.org/2015/06/27/microsoft-jack-insults-people/Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz>Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz> btw .. See here where Simon Cooke has gone back to work for the Microsoft organization. Well who would have figured. He's also a film director who doesn't actually make any movies. He's also a mental case .. him and Funkenbusch. I wonder what ever happened to him?Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz>Jul 03 16:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Microsoft Jack (Schofield) Promotes Microsoft’s Proprietary Lock-in and Calls People Who Recommend Free/Libre Software ‘Trolls’ | Techrights [ http://ur1.ca/my9j2 ]Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz> https://www.linkedin.com/in/fleetingshadowJul 03 16:31
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.linkedin.com | Simon Cooke | LinkedIn [ http://ur1.ca/mzt7u ]Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz>Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitzNever heard of that place he claims to have studied in, unless UoM used to be decoupled.... it was either UMIST of Victoria Uni of Manchester.Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitzFreelance JournalistJul 03 16:31
r_schestowitzVarious UK MagazinesJul 03 16:31
r_schestowitz1993 – 1997Jul 03 16:31
r_schestowitzDid he promote early Windows there?Jul 03 16:31
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/l5GqHIyIyRJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mztfvJul 03 16:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu Is Finally Fixing Its Annoying GRUBJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines                 Setting http://t.co/n72GYEOVb8Jul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jul 03 16:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Ubuntu Is Finally Fixing Its Annoying GRUB Setting - PhoronixJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mztfzJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Gaming http://t.co/wpOJk658wKJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mztg1Jul 03 16:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Gaming | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:54
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's howtos http://t.co/MvK5Us3mJUJul 03 16:54
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TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mztg2Jul 03 16:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's howtos | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Software http://t.co/rZXLWbufAUJul 03 16:55
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mztg3Jul 03 16:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: Software | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's leftovers http://t.co/yOcYS2OgcqJul 03 16:55
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 16:55
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mztg4Jul 03 16:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux MachinesJul 03 16:55
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Aleks404/status/617080977093980160Jul 03 17:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Aleks404: #PJLRenseignement https://t.co/scCaNdvEqSJul 03 17:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: "ordered the interception of every French company contract or negotiation valued at more than $200 ml" http://t.co/b6Udx0K3I5 #espionageJul 03 17:41
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jwildeboer/status/617088938000449537Jul 03 17:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jwildeboer: @schestowitz sez the guy wearing a suit in his profile pic ;-) err ... Wait. Must change my profile pic too :-)Jul 03 17:55
r_schestowitzhehe, true. Shame on me.Jul 03 17:55
r_schestowitzHey, yours looks like drag, Jan. :-pJul 03 17:55
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jwildeboer/status/617089561986998272Jul 03 17:58
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jwildeboer: @schestowitz you haven't seen my other suit. It's called Commando. From opposuits. Don't. Look. It. Up. ;-)Jul 03 17:58
r_schestowitzI can, but then GCHQ will have something on me ;-)Jul 03 17:58
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/jwildeboer/status/617090403632816128Jul 03 18:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@jwildeboer: @schestowitz hahaha! That'll be the least of your worries, trust me!1!!Jul 03 18:07
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/deusexstigma/status/617096258994458624Jul 03 18:28
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@deusexstigma: @schestowitz ++retch++Jul 03 18:28
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/horrorlibrarian/status/617096908817989632Jul 03 18:29
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@horrorlibrarian: @schestowitz @ACLU awesome!Jul 03 18:29
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/FrancisJeffrey7/status/617102980110618624Jul 03 18:51
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@FrancisJeffrey7: @schestowitz Strange coincidence: That's two of us.Jul 03 18:51
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r_schestowitz"Jul 03 19:52
r_schestowitzI have some interesting plans for my next trip to #singapore (maybe in February), The abuses there are easy to expose, photograph, etc.Jul 03 19:52
r_schestowitzRe  http://ur1.ca/mzuzp  should you really be telegraphing that?Jul 03 19:52
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: I have some interesting plans for my next trip to #singapore (maybe in February), The abuses there are easy to expose, photograph, etc.Jul 03 19:52
r_schestowitz"Jul 03 19:52
r_schestowitzyes, to test them, e.g. at the borderJul 03 19:52
r_schestowitz"Right. If it's a test, then ok :-) What if they deny you entry?"Jul 03 19:56
r_schestowitzI can wait at the airport in transit. They didn't raise any issues after all the things I wrote before and during last visit, e.g. re Shane ToddJul 03 19:57
r_schestowitz> See this comment on slashdot, couldn't have said it better myself:Jul 03 20:07
r_schestowitz>Jul 03 20:07
r_schestowitz> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7640103&cid=50040847Jul 03 20:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-slashdot.org | AMAgeddon: Reddit Mods Are Locking Up the Site's Most Popular Pages In Protest - Slashdot [ http://ur1.ca/mzv7p ]Jul 03 20:07
r_schestowitz>Jul 03 20:07
r_schestowitz> http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/07/03/121206/amageddon-reddit-mods-are-locking-up-the-sites-most-popular-pages-in-protestJul 03 20:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.slashdot.org | AMAgeddon: Reddit Mods Are Locking Up the Site's Most Popular Pages In Protest - Slashdot [ http://ur1.ca/mzv7q ]Jul 03 20:07
r_schestowitzSlashdot AND reddit need to go the way of the dodo.Jul 03 20:07
r_schestowitz"Well it's an interesting experiment. I am pretty sure I'm watched also"Jul 03 20:08
r_schestowitzEveryone is watched, we know based on leaked documents. The question is, how much? What are we classified as?Jul 03 20:08
msb__Anyone who diminishes corporate profits is considered to be a terrorist.   We are dealing with psychopaths here.Jul 03 20:11
msb__The ultra-wealthy feel terrorized if anyone competes with them.Jul 03 20:11
r_schestowitzyeahJul 03 20:13
msb__Just like anyone who tries to defend against a US invasion is called an insurgent or terrorist.Jul 03 20:13
msb__It's a universal psychopath technique to claim that their victims are doing the evil that they themselves are actually doing.Jul 03 20:15
msb__Michael Parenti said decades ago that the greatest crime is to defend against a US attack.Jul 03 20:16
r_schestowitz"Right"Jul 03 20:23
r_schestowitz"Border control is a pretty high stakes test unfortunately"Jul 03 20:24
r_schestowitzbeen through this before, but they usually just check there's no foreseen trouble, unless there's risk of protest/violenceJul 03 20:24
msb__Don't they torture people who criticize the govt in singpore by whipping?Jul 03 20:25
msb__Or who leave a wad of chewing gum on a subway train.Jul 03 20:27
r_schestowitz"I am thinking of what Moxie, Appelbaum endure at borders"Jul 03 20:40
r_schestowitzThey publicise it, it serves their causeJul 03 20:40
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/qu1j0t3/status/617130865278197760Jul 03 20:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@qu1j0t3: @FrancisJeffrey7 Actually it's USA that's behind most of it. #welp @schestowitzJul 03 20:41
r_schestowitzmsb__: noJul 03 20:41
r_schestowitzmaybe Saudi ArabiaJul 03 20:41
r_schestowitzI'm not sure Singapore still does lashingJul 03 20:42
r_schestowitzbut I think I heard of somethingJul 03 20:42
r_schestowitzand i think their police can do some forms of psychological tortureJul 03 20:42
msb__Maybe make you eat bacon.Jul 03 20:43
msb__oops, only 15% muslimJul 03 20:47
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/qu1j0t3/status/617132227860787204Jul 03 20:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@qu1j0t3: @schestowitz & that's precisely the purpose of Saudi beheadings too, and exactly why the oligarchy won't hesitate to use capital punishmentJul 03 20:50
r_schestowitzUS has capital punishment. But they are 'gentlemen'; they inject poison, won't decapitate. 'Polite' murder (eye for an eye).Jul 03 20:51
r_schestowitzmsb__: unlike Malaysia at the north and Indonesia to the southJul 03 20:51
msb__Unless the US is doing capital punishment wholesale -- a million people at a time.  Then it's bombing, strafing, napalm, until they're all dead (with twice as many injured).Jul 03 20:55
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/robert_stock7/status/617134027703595009Jul 03 20:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@robert_stock7: @schestowitz @Machilu2014 Behaviour wld b considered outrageous by Americans if they were the target. Time for slap down of U.S. by allies.Jul 03 20:56
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/WellyTopping/status/617135507030581249  https://twitter.com/deusexstigma/status/617136141502971904Jul 03 21:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@WellyTopping: Tories (Thatcher, Reagan, everyone since) have always idolised and supported tyrants, war criminals & torturers. Same type. @schestowitzJul 03 21:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@deusexstigma: @schestowitz and basically imprisoned without trial for five years..death threats..against his family also.Without Wikileaks we'd be fucked.Jul 03 21:03
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/7Mbjhrdh25Jul 03 22:02
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 03 22:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 03 22:02
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mzw7vJul 03 22:02
*TweetTuxMachines @bitfield followed @tuxmachinesJul 03 22:02
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roy__https://twitter.com/tecknocrat/status/617228704817614848Jul 04 04:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tecknocrat: @schestowitz Target implies aggression & the need to attack. If we r 2 progress as ppl we need to learn better language & be more accurateJul 04 04:41
roy__https://twitter.com/tecknocrat/status/617229238245011457Jul 04 04:42
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@tecknocrat: @deusexstigma @schestowitz The world would be a vet different place. A just imagine if OUR Politicians had free rain without scrutiny-scaryJul 04 04:42
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6298972Jul 04 04:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #politico bought a new domain name for a few bucks to pretend to be #eu publication, throw around 'trade' puff pieces http://www.politico.eu/article/parliament-moves-ahead-on-ttip-deal/Jul 04 04:47
roy__"Jul 04 04:47
roy__Actually, it looks like Politico has had the .eu domain since April 7, 2006.Jul 04 04:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.politico.eu | Parliament to vote on TTIP next week – POLITICO [ http://ur1.ca/mzz80 ]Jul 04 04:47
roy__http://www.eurid.eu/en/whois-searchJul 04 04:47
roy__"Jul 04 04:47
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.eurid.eu | WHOIS search | EURidJul 04 04:47
roy__Maybe just to protect the brandJul 04 04:47
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6299052Jul 04 04:48
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Stories that don't start with the condition of anonymity (and/or source protection) tend to be either unoriginal or just PR for someoneJul 04 04:48
roy__"Jul 04 04:48
roy__Do you recall Valerie Plame, a CIA spy outed at the behest of Dick Cheney, anonymously of course, in order to pressure her husband who had undermined Bush administration claims about Saddam Hussein (uranium tubes or some such nonsense)?Jul 04 04:48
roy__Anonymity is like anything else. It can be and probably is often abused.Jul 04 04:48
roy__"Jul 04 04:48
roy__https://twitter.com/deusexstigma/status/617253583919128576Jul 04 04:50
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@deusexstigma: @tecknocrat @schestowitz almost do...transparency bodies like WL..Courage..EFF.et al stand in their way..must be protected or we go downJul 04 04:50
roy__Daily Fail: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3148791/Fears-Putin-planning-fresh-assault-Ukraine-drone-footage-reveals-build-Russian-tanks-just-10-miles-frontline.htmlJul 04 05:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.dailymail.co.uk | Vladmir Putin 'planning fresh assault' on Ukraine as drone reveals build up of Russian tanks | Daily Mail Online [ http://ur1.ca/mzzc6 ]Jul 04 05:07
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/SleepyPenguin1/status/617296834332114944Jul 04 07:55
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@SleepyPenguin1: Any suggestions for a wired ethernet Wi-Fi access point for home use ? @schestowitzJul 04 07:55
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r_schestowitz> https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/07/01/hundreds-of-dark-web-sites-cloned-and-booby-trapped/Jul 04 09:23
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-nakedsecurity.sophos.com | Hundreds of Dark Web sites cloned and “booby trapped” | Naked Security [ http://ur1.ca/mz5d5 ]Jul 04 09:24
r_schestowitz>Jul 04 09:24
r_schestowitz> I had also suspected such for a while.  Though calling it "dark web" isJul 04 09:24
r_schestowitz> bullshit.  The dark web includes anything not indexed by Google and co,Jul 04 09:24
r_schestowitz> including all those corporate intranets.Jul 04 09:24
r_schestowitzYes, meaningless words to associate invisibility with crimeJul 04 09:24
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/readergordonbp/status/617324428502958080Jul 04 09:30
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@readergordonbp: @schestowitz I can't believe that you can't watch the EU Parliament proceedings live without Silverlight! Scandalous!Jul 04 09:30
r_schestowitzeven in 2015 when Silverlight is officially abandoned for YEARS?Jul 04 09:31
r_schestowitz> torrentfreak.com/police-let-seized-pirate-domains-expire-some-up-for-sale-150704/Jul 04 09:36
r_schestowitz>Jul 04 09:36
r_schestowitz> A dickish move, intentionally destroying confiscated domains without dueJul 04 09:36
r_schestowitz> process.Jul 04 09:36
r_schestowitzIndeed.Jul 04 09:36
oiaohmr_schestowitz: really worse is just mandoary delete the domain from dns servers.Jul 04 09:39
oiaohmIts not like the police have to legally pay when they hold a crime area for investiation.Jul 04 09:40
r_schestowitzneeds to be due processJul 04 09:43
r_schestowitzor somethingJul 04 09:43
r_schestowitzotherwise it's ad hoc and arbitraryJul 04 09:43
r_schestowitzlike shooting unamed civilians "because I was scared"Jul 04 09:43
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Leann02/status/617326074284908544Jul 04 09:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Leann02: @schestowitz @glynco ty for sharing..I know this goes on in many other places too..it grieves my soul.Jul 04 09:44
oiaohmAustralia to cease domain requires a court orderJul 04 09:44
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/readergordonbp/status/617326734577377280Jul 04 09:44
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@readergordonbp: @schestowitz Looks like they've changed it - now it's wmv format. Was Silverlight a couple of years ago...Jul 04 09:44
oiaohmAnd that legally can be challaged.Jul 04 09:44
r_schestowitzoiaohm: aussie follows the british modelJul 04 09:44
r_schestowitzin almost everythingJul 04 09:44
oiaohmNot everythingJul 04 09:44
r_schestowitzif not us model, e.g. when it comes to patents, trade dealsJul 04 09:44
oiaohmIn patents if you patent is void and it australian patent you do have to refund all claimed money using it.Jul 04 09:45
oiaohmSo no Australia is not exactly USA either.Jul 04 09:45
oiaohmIf USA implemented some of the Australian patent laws the trolls would be reduced.Jul 04 09:45
oiaohmr_schestowitz: remember its legal to use a lot of mod chip devices in Australia.Jul 04 09:47
oiaohmThat are illegal in the USA or england.Jul 04 09:47
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oiaohmReally one of the costs of the war on terror for Australia is the fact you cannot buy fireworks in the capital any more.Jul 04 09:58
amarsh04only in the Northern Territory Jul 04 10:01
amarsh04the main problem is that people don't oppose "because terrorism" claims by governmentsJul 04 10:02
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Links 4/7/2015: Mostly (Geo)Political CatchupJul 04 11:06
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/AxN2dtDLKZ (techrights.org)Jul 04 11:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n02beJul 04 11:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Links 4/7/2015: Mostly (Geo)Political Catchup | TechrightsJul 04 11:06
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/617349736337518592Jul 04 11:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: Main concept behind American mcjobs is that some humans are inferior to others, get what they deserve. https://t.co/IJwT3zTisVJul 04 11:27
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: "Main concept of human rights is that all human beings have equal rights and these rights apply to everyone" http://t.co/AQQ9X8KNetJul 04 11:27
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/617349736337518592Jul 04 11:28
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schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/Leann02/status/617366761105694720Jul 04 12:38
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@Leann02: @schestowitz I am sincerely comforted by people like yourselves..I always let Matt know to encourage him. Peace and blessings..:)Jul 04 12:38
schestowitzhttps://joindiaspora.com/posts/6299541Jul 04 12:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Pirate Bay founders: FBI has #Prenda Law under investigation http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/pirate-bay-founders-fbi-has-prenda-law-under-investigation/ as if #fbi upholds the law http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Report-DDoS-service-as-a-legitimate-FBI-approved-business-1867566.htmlJul 04 12:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> arstechnica.com | Pirate Bay founders: FBI has Prenda Law under investigation | Ars Technica [ http://ur1.ca/n0391 ]Jul 04 12:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.h-online.com | Report: DDoS service as a legitimate, FBI-approved business - The H Security: News and Features [ http://ur1.ca/e02nb ]Jul 04 12:40
schestowitz'They might punish Prenda to create a perception of enforcement, and justice in copyright law. All of the big publishers have done the same to promote their works and track users with watermarks. That makes our modern, radical copyright laws essentially a tool for public manipulation. Only privileged people are allowed to share and use all of the cultural resonance of broadcast and big publisher promoted music, music, and images. That Jul 04 12:40
schestowitzis a very powerful body of work, able to instantly form new memories in people who see them. “Potential troublemakers” who might threaten the revenue of favored companies can be ruined if they are foolish enough to share big publisher garbage.'Jul 04 12:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: OSS http://t.co/wJ55fbSilWJul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n03b7Jul 04 12:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Leftovers: OSS | Tux MachinesJul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     today's leftovers http://t.co/EaOZb3OMeAJul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 12:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | today's leftovers | Tux MachinesJul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n03b9Jul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/Zapdq85w9rJul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 12:46
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 04 12:46
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n03baJul 04 12:46
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Today in Techrights http://t.co/pV8byyegh3Jul 04 15:19
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 15:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Today in Techrights | Tux MachinesJul 04 15:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n04usJul 04 15:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Fedora Pinos to do for Video what PulseAudioJul 04 15:19
TweetTuxMachines retweeted by    did for Audio http://t.co/nrjyLviKmqJul 04 15:19
TweetTuxMachines @speedytux      (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 15:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Fedora Pinos to do for Video what PulseAudio did for Audio | Tux MachinesJul 04 15:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n04utJul 04 15:19
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     You Can Now Upgrade to Linux Mint 17.2Jul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines                 "Rafaela" http://t.co/Ts3d19S9uzJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n077mJul 04 19:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | You Can Now Upgrade to Linux Mint 17.2 "Rafaela" | Tux MachinesJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) to Reach End ofJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines                 Life Soon http://t.co/m7hYT7FWMdJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n077vJul 04 19:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu 14.10 (Utopic Unicorn) to Reach End of Life Soon | Tux MachinesJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Intel Has More Graphics Code For Testing, PlansJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines                 For Linux 4.3 http://t.co/pKcszBMjsjJul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jul 04 19:54
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/n077wJul 04 19:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Intel Has More Graphics Code For Testing, Plans For Linux 4.3 | Tux MachinesJul 04 19:54
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BACKUP
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oiaohmI am up to needing a new chair.   Currently using a computer case as a chair.Jun 28 03:52
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-NickServ-r_schestowitz!~roy@host109-146-101-247.range109-146.btcentralplus.com has just authenticated as you (schestowitz)Jun 28 04:49
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r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/fcassia/status/615003702227828736Jun 28 04:49
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@fcassia: @schestowitz cloudflare?Jun 28 04:49
r_schestowitzover my dead body...Jun 28 04:50
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/fcassia/status/615004393646227456Jun 28 04:57
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@fcassia: @schestowitz elaborate please?Jun 28 04:57
r_schestowitzmistreats visitorsJun 28 04:57
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     #ManjaroLinux Cinnamon 0.8.13 OfficiallyJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines                 Released with the #Cinnamon 2.6 DesktopJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/23KSVociCs (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2pyJun 28 08:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Manjaro Linux Cinnamon 0.8.13 Officially Released with the Cinnamon 2.6 Desktop - SoftpediaJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     24-hours with the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition: I’mJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines                 going to need some time to adjustJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/czXo25U0a5 (thenextweb.com) #linuxJun 28 08:19
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-thenextweb.com | 24 hours with the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu EditionJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2pzJun 28 08:19
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu Touch to Get a New Thumbnailer andJun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines                 WPA-Enterprise Support http://t.co/bY4FmiYFA7Jun 28 08:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-linux.softpedia.com | Ubuntu Touch to Get a New Thumbnailer and WPA-Enterprise Support - SoftpediaJun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines                 (linux.softpedia.com)Jun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2r8Jun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Gets Chromium 43,Jun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines                 Snappy Images Coming SoonJun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/yJZswAnDya (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 08:24
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Ubuntu 15.10 (Wily Werewolf) Gets Chromium 43, Snappy Images Coming Soon - SoftpediaJun 28 08:24
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2r9Jun 28 08:24
*TweetTuxMachines @sizeof favourited '24-hours with the Meizu MX4 Ubuntu Edition: I’m...'Jun 28 08:30
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Italian makers unveil the Felfil, an openJun 28 09:00
TweetTuxMachines                 source 3d printing filament extruderJun 28 09:00
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/hiF8JQRENn (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 09:00
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my2z9Jun 28 09:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Italian makers unveil the Felfil, an open source 3d printing filament extruder | Tux MachinesJun 28 09:00
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Will I Have the Latest Software Versions inJun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines                 Ubuntu with Snappy? http://t.co/YNMO6ijTJ9Jun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my3n3Jun 28 10:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Will I Have the Latest Software Versions in Ubuntu with Snappy? | Tux MachinesJun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Will I Have the Latest Software Versions inJun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines                 Ubuntu with Snappy? http://t.co/EobeuVTb4oJun 28 10:40
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-news.softpedia.com | Will I Have the Latest Software Versions in Ubuntu with Snappy? - SoftpediaJun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines                 (news.softpedia.com)Jun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my3n4Jun 28 10:40
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Distance Is The Racing Game I Never Knew IJun 28 10:41
TweetTuxMachines                 Wanted On Linux, Some Thoughts & VideoJun 28 10:41
TweetTuxMachines                 https://t.co/GPCEQeGE5k (www.gamingonlinux.com)Jun 28 10:41
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my3n5Jun 28 10:41
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gamingonlinux.com | Distance Is The Racing Game I Never Knew I Wanted On Linux, Some Thoughts & Video | GamingOnLinuxJun 28 10:41
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XRevan86https://joindiaspora.com/posts/ac05ef00f969013238b83a81ad033604Jun 28 11:54
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-joindiaspora.com | Even #pravda joke... [ http://ur1.ca/my430 ]Jun 28 11:54
XRevan86schestowitz: pravda.ru != PravdaJun 28 11:55
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 PerformanceJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines                 Improvements http://t.co/3phVwXEKiVJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.phoronix.com)Jun 28 12:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 Performance Improvements - PhoronixJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my459Jun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux 4.2 Will Bring LIBNVDIMM Support ForJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines                 Non-Volatile Memory Devices Jun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/LIRTXSr51k (www.phoronix.com)Jun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my45aJun 28 12:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.phoronix.com | Linux 4.2 Will Bring LIBNVDIMM Support For Non-Volatile Memory Devices - PhoronixJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 PerformanceJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines                 Improvements http://t.co/eCg8Je5bCiJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 12:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux 4.2 Advertises GFS2 Performance Improvements | Tux MachinesJun 28 12:06
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/my45bJun 28 12:06
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oiaohmhttp://www.itworld.com/article/2940478/linux/windows-versus-linux-for-businesses.html  This is getting interestingJun 28 13:06
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.itworld.com | Windows versus Linux for businesses | ITworld [ http://ur1.ca/my4hz ]Jun 28 13:06
cubexyzthose articles just aren't very goodJun 28 13:09
cubexyzit's clear to me that the current software churn is just a waste of timeJun 28 13:12
cubexyzmore elaborate GUIs, operating systems that end of life after a few years, and closed systems... well it's not very hard to improve on thatJun 28 13:14
cubexyzplanned obsolescenceJun 28 13:15
cubexyzonce microsoft added activation to windows, I was out of thereJun 28 13:18
cubexyzit's the pre-loads that get to me the most thoughJun 28 13:19
cubexyzthat's why I rarely ever go to a computer store nowJun 28 13:20
cubexyzI find it hysterical how we use to do everything imaginable in 64 kb while today you have ot learn 1000 poorly designed methods in some #28one of n#29 language that compiles to many MB's worth of sheer nonsense. The lossy compressed screenshot from the 70's easily takes 200 kb haha Jun 28 13:34
oiaohmcubexyz: what is interesting is the fact its being talked about as Linux being an option.Jun 28 13:54
cubexyzyou do recall that businesses used to use PDP-11s?Jun 28 13:54
cubexyzI have a list of the different institutions... it's interesting readingJun 28 13:55
cubexyza lot of medical places, research centres and of course academiaJun 28 13:56
oiaohmWhat do you mean used.   http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/Jun 28 13:56
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.theregister.co.uk | Nuke plants to rely on PDP-11 code UNTIL 2050! • The Register [ http://ur1.ca/edeyd ]Jun 28 13:56
oiaohmSome of those horible old designs are very tough.Jun 28 13:57
cubexyzyou've heard of the DOD? :)Jun 28 13:59
cubexyzthem tooJun 28 13:59
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/kaatje36/status/615094259159597060Jun 28 14:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@kaatje36: @schestowitz Same happened rather recently to Malawi :(Jun 28 14:00
cubexyzI made a point of tracking down as much of the Usenix tapes as I couldJun 28 14:00
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/RoodJet/status/615098967521652736Jun 28 14:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@RoodJet: The 'West' can't leave it be when others have succes. Why the hell they break everything down with their arrogance. https://t.co/yLCOz0f0nLJun 28 14:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz: #IMF and USA set to ruin #Ghana https://t.co/QZrTom9r2P classic enslavement through debt. #africa #imperialism #colonisationJun 28 14:00
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/angrymofo/status/615101183636586496Jun 28 14:00
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@angrymofo: @schestowitz How many attacking IP's and what type of DDOS ? iptables can stop layer7 but depends on how many ip's to block. Too many = slowJun 28 14:00
cubexyzoiaohm, a lot of it was typesetting and text manipulation, not too surprisingJun 28 14:00
r_schestowitztoo slow to blockJun 28 14:00
cubexyza lot of what is considered standard now was part of an aggregation process that started long agoJun 28 14:01
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/angrymofo/status/615101776400781312Jun 28 14:02
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@angrymofo: @schestowitz I held off >10k IP's for weeks once using iptables and a rolling db of the last 10k bad IP's. User agent enabled ID of bad IP'sJun 28 14:02
r_schestowitzthat's like blocking the whole of AWSJun 28 14:02
cubexyzgraphing utilties, and there's still tons of source code I haven't looked at yetJun 28 14:02
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/haniefhaider/status/615106432334209024Jun 28 14:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@haniefhaider: #Ghana had the best public utility in #Africa... until the IMF arrived... https://t.co/zxAT0Y6F1r. #imperialism #Greece via @schestowitzJun 28 14:03
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> www.craigmurray.org.uk | Craig Murray » Blog Archive » IMF and USA set to ruin GhanaJun 28 14:03
r_schestowitzhttps://twitter.com/matthewstinar/status/615133790201982976Jun 28 14:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@matthewstinar: @schestowitz We'd all be better off if the Fortune 500 blacklisted Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, and Oracle.Jun 28 14:05
cubexyzthere was big talk about Linux back in 2000Jun 28 14:07
cubexyzprobably even before thatJun 28 14:07
oiaohmI got into Linux from BSD in 1995Jun 28 14:07
MinceRi got into GNU/Linux from winblows somewhen around 2000Jun 28 14:08
oiaohmSo there was a lot of write up from 1995 to 2002 then it died down.Jun 28 14:08
cubexyz2015 and it's still a novelty to consider Linux for business use? Surely we are passed that pointJun 28 14:08
cubexyzquasar has been used for point of sale for quite a while nowJun 28 14:09
cubexyzI think the DOD even has their own distro nowJun 28 14:10
oiaohmIssue is basic. Jun 28 14:11
cubexyzhttp://spi.dod.mil/LPS-Public_for_DoD.htm Jun 28 14:11
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-spi.dod.mil | LPS-Public [ http://ur1.ca/my4x4 ]Jun 28 14:11
oiaohmReality in 2000 it was believe that the graphics issues on Linux would be fixed.Jun 28 14:11
oiaohmhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_GLX cubexyz this project was seen that it would lead to solving the issues.Jun 28 14:13
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | Utah GLX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJun 28 14:14
oiaohmThe hard reality is while Linux desktop envornement fails based security requirements its progress was always limited.Jun 28 14:14
cubexyzI know that in the late 80s U of Waterloo was running SunOS in the computer labJun 28 14:15
cubexyzso we've had the *nix stuff working for some timeJun 28 14:15
cubexyzoiaohm, that GLX stuff looks quite oldJun 28 14:16
oiaohmcubexyz: question do you use NVIDIA drivers under Linux.Jun 28 14:17
cubexyzmy server doesJun 28 14:17
oiaohmIf you do you are using code from Utah GLXJun 28 14:17
cubexyzsure, glxgears Jun 28 14:18
cubexyzbut it's mainly just a web server :)Jun 28 14:18
oiaohmAt that point in history Nvidia developers were willing to work with everyone else.Jun 28 14:18
cubexyzI have a bunch of different video chipsets hereJun 28 14:18
oiaohmThat ends 2002Jun 28 14:18
oiaohmcubexyz: do you not notice to use Nvidia you load glx not dri.Jun 28 14:19
oiaohmThere are complains from x.org for having to support historic interfaces so Nvidia drivers works.Jun 28 14:20
cubexyzoiaohm, I think on some of my computers it loads both dri and glxJun 28 14:21
cubexyzon the nvidia one it's just glx Jun 28 14:21
cubexyzit's been a while since I've looked at xfree86 stuffJun 28 14:21
oiaohmnewer driver design use driJun 28 14:22
cubexyzin the module section it seems to load both on most of my boxesJun 28 14:22
oiaohmglx interface forwarding to dri has to be provided for old programs.Jun 28 14:23
cubexyzold programs such as...?Jun 28 14:24
oiaohmhttp://us.download.nvidia.com/solaris/180.51/README/chapter-03.htmlJun 28 14:25
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-us.download.nvidia.com | Chapter 3. Configuring X for the NVIDIA Driver [ http://ur1.ca/my50t ]Jun 28 14:25
oiaohmBut the forward is GLcore module.Jun 28 14:25
oiaohmNot the GLX module.Jun 28 14:25
oiaohmA lot of people are not aware of how old of code the Nvidia binary blob forks off at.Jun 28 14:26
oiaohmOf course when the Nvidia guys pull up stumps from Utah GLX so did ATI and every other major vendor.Jun 28 14:27
oiaohmThen 8 years from 2002 to 2010 does graphics in Linux go back to not being a major interest to major video card makers.Jun 28 14:27
oiaohmcubexyz: please note its interesting how little difference there is in X.org configuration for Nvidia between Linux, bsd and SolarisJun 28 14:28
cubexyzI definitely remember running quake and descent on Linux many moons agoJun 28 14:29
cubexyzI honestly can't recall any problems with the videoJun 28 14:29
cubexyzran most of the Loki games as wellJun 28 14:29
oiaohmproblem is not making stuff run cubexyzJun 28 14:29
oiaohmIts the security sides.Jun 28 14:29
oiaohmLike implementing Secure Attention Key to make sure keyboard logins are valid.Jun 28 14:30
cubexyzand yet the DOD has a distro :)Jun 28 14:30
oiaohmTrue but that distrobution does not run Nvidia.Jun 28 14:31
MinceRwhat use is SAK if you're not at the console?Jun 28 14:33
MinceRand what use is pretending you're secure when someone is at the console, so has physical access to the computer?Jun 28 14:33
oiaohmMinceR: SAK is ment to work for console and graphical.Jun 28 14:33
oiaohmSAK is a preventive method to applications creating fake login screens.Jun 28 14:33
cubexyzcan't they just add some biometric security thing?Jun 28 14:33
MinceRi meant having access to a display and keyboard plugged directly into the computerJun 28 14:34
cubexyzkeyboard doesn't work until you press you thumb or do a retina scan...Jun 28 14:34
MinceRbiometric authentication is mostly security theater.Jun 28 14:34
MinceRespecially fingerprint-basedJun 28 14:34
oiaohmEven when you have physical access a program can attempt to display a fake login screen to get login details to go higher.Jun 28 14:34
oiaohmThis is preventing a class of internal attack.Jun 28 14:34
oiaohmfingerprint scaners are worthless because fingerprints are too simple to get and replicate.Jun 28 14:35
MinceRindeedJun 28 14:35
oiaohmBlood vessel scanners are in fact safer.Jun 28 14:36
cubexyzput the computers in a secure areaJun 28 14:36
cubexyzseems like a simple problem to solveJun 28 14:36
oiaohmSomething to remember about biometrics if the subject does not have to be alive for them to work  attackers might just kill subject.Jun 28 14:36
oiaohmcubexyz: please note I said internal attack.Jun 28 14:36
oiaohmThis is where sometrust to a limit amount to access the computer is attempting to get higher access.Jun 28 14:37
MinceRwhat happens if you press [Ctrl+]Alt+SysRq+k on nvidia?Jun 28 14:38
cubexyzright, there were some login shenanigans on early unixJun 28 14:38
cubexyzbut obviously the problems weren't that badJun 28 14:38
oiaohmMinceR: nothing good.   Same issue happens like when you switch to console and back again with nvidia.   The Nvidia closed soruce driver locks up.Jun 28 14:38
cubexyzoiaohm, businesses were running stuff on msdos and it definitely wasn't secure at all :)Jun 28 14:40
cubexyzfloppies had virusesJun 28 14:40
MinceRbusinesses were running stuff on windows and that isn't secure eitherJun 28 14:40
cubexyzit's not like we ever had super-duper securityJun 28 14:40
oiaohmRecent years Nvidia has got better but 2010 and before switching from Framebuffer and back was more fatel.Jun 28 14:40
MinceRwe like the illusion of super-duper security, thoughJun 28 14:40
oiaohmThis is a checklist of security features.Jun 28 14:41
oiaohmWindows techically has working SAK.Jun 28 14:41
MinceRi mostly had luck with nvidiaJun 28 14:41
MinceRexcept when hibernating or suspendingJun 28 14:41
oiaohmMinceR: notice the except.Jun 28 14:41
oiaohmBusiness want hibernating and suspending for laptops on the move.Jun 28 14:41
MinceRswitching to text console and back tended to workJun 28 14:41
MinceRoiaohm: at my last job, the IT department told me to not use hibernate or suspend on windows because it was a miracle if it worked.Jun 28 14:42
cubexyzwhy not just shutdown when you need to?Jun 28 14:42
cubexyzit's a laptop after allJun 28 14:42
MinceR(i still used it because i was lazy, and it tended to work)Jun 28 14:42
MinceRalso, why do business laptops have nvidia GPU?Jun 28 14:43
oiaohmMinceR: windows has about a 1 in 10 device failure rate with hibernate or suspend.Jun 28 14:43
MinceRthe ones i saw had intel.Jun 28 14:43
oiaohmMinceR: what has Linux performance been with Intel hardware.Jun 28 14:43
MinceRi guess in this case i was lucky with windows (as opposed to the usual case)Jun 28 14:43
oiaohmDead dog right MinceRJun 28 14:43
oiaohmUntil recently.Jun 28 14:43
MinceRdepends on the use caseJun 28 14:43
MinceRmost business use cases don't need a powerful GPU.Jun 28 14:44
cubexyzsounds crappy all round then re: suspendingJun 28 14:44
oiaohmbusiness cases don't need a higher powerful GPU is true but needing one that works a bit.Jun 28 14:44
MinceRalso, i could buy a ThinkPad with an intel GPU that's more powerful than my quadro fx 2700m :>Jun 28 14:44
oiaohmcubexyz: Linux suspend issue was a 1 in 3.Jun 28 14:45
MinceRall the intel GPUs i had worked reliably, including the GMA 900 in my netbook.Jun 28 14:45
oiaohmcubexyz: but that si getting better.Jun 28 14:45
cubexyzoiaohm, I've suspending over 100 times on my HPJun 28 14:45
cubexyzsuspendedJun 28 14:45
MinceRand on those suspend almost always worksJun 28 14:45
oiaohmNote the terible I am talking about is 2010 and before.Jun 28 14:45
oiaohmWe have seen some major changes since then.Jun 28 14:46
cubexyz273 days uptime tooJun 28 14:46
cubexyzwhich isn't badJun 28 14:46
MinceR(6 months or more with ~2 daily suspends without issue)Jun 28 14:46
MinceRicJun 28 14:46
cubexyzgood enough I'd sayJun 28 14:46
oiaohmLinux being terible from 2002 to 2010 makes lot of business edgy touching Linux.Jun 28 14:46
cubexyzMinceR, the wall wart had a loose connection, otherwise the uptime would have been longerJun 28 14:47
MinceRi think i had that netbook before 2010Jun 28 14:47
MinceRfunny thing is, windows was always worseJun 28 14:47
oiaohmReally I am look forward to Wayland.Jun 28 14:48
MinceRi'm not a fan but i have a plan to salvage itJun 28 14:48
MinceRi think i can extend kde's implementation with the missing features and modularityJun 28 14:48
oiaohmOnce that is in place a lot of checkboxes on the security list can mark it.Jun 28 14:48
MinceRalso, maybe they'll get a clue and add the missing features to the protocolJun 28 14:49
oiaohmWayland protocol is way more complete than X11 was/is.Jun 28 14:49
MinceRwhere's pointer grap and pointer warp?Jun 28 14:49
cubexyzI think motif has that :)Jun 28 14:51
cubexyzumm, grab at leastJun 28 14:51
MinceRmotif works on x11, not waylandJun 28 14:52
oiaohmpointer grap and warp is being worked on under LibinputJun 28 14:52
MinceRthat sounds like a hackJun 28 14:52
MinceRwhy isn't it in the protocol?Jun 28 14:52
oiaohmNopJun 28 14:52
cubexyzwhich distros use wayland?Jun 28 14:53
cubexyzUbuntu I supposeJun 28 14:54
oiaohmWayland protocol is not about input or output that much at all MinceR.   But device access.Jun 28 14:55
MinceRicJun 28 14:55
oiaohmLike wayland does not define how direct rendering of opengl works.Jun 28 14:55
MinceRwhat devices? just the GPU or also input devices?Jun 28 14:55
oiaohmWith GPU it just wants to know what buffers  application wants displayed and where.   So most of what the GPU device does wayland has no interest in.   With input what devices the user application should see/not see.Jun 28 14:57
oiaohmCalcution of input corrections and the like under wayland are the application side.Jun 28 14:57
oiaohmThis is a lot more compadible with giving applications timesilces and them being able to process everything they need even if the wayland compositor gets no cpu time.Jun 28 14:58
MinceRwho decides which application gets input?Jun 28 14:58
XRevan86cubexyz: Ubuntu Next uses Mir.Jun 28 14:59
MinceRi thought they gave up on mir alreadyJun 28 15:00
oiaohmSomething to remember a wayland application can run without a compositor.   Techically the top application what you normally expect to be the compositor decides what applications are able to see input.Jun 28 15:00
XRevan86MinceR: Nope, still Mir.Jun 28 15:01
XRevan86Mir, trud, mai :).Jun 28 15:01
oiaohmUbuntu is not even willing to give up on Mir even after Intel pulled support.Jun 28 15:01
oiaohmMinceR:  you also have to remeber libinput is planed to be shared between wayland and x.org.   So why implement a stack of things twice.Jun 28 15:03
oiaohmEven Mir is planing on using libinput.Jun 28 15:03
XRevan86oiaohm: It already works on X.org and breaks by touchpad :).Jun 28 15:03
oiaohmits the one place where all the graphical systems feature cross.Jun 28 15:03
oiaohmXRevan86: libinput fixes some touchpads with x.org as well.Jun 28 15:04
oiaohmlibinput has been a real mixed bag Jun 28 15:04
XRevan86Well, I have a plain synaptics.Jun 28 15:04
XRevan86so I'm in a majority hereJun 28 15:04
oiaohmTurns out some of the synaptics have also had issues that the libinput configuration allows to be fixed as well.  XRevan86 this is why I say mixed bag.Jun 28 15:07
MinceRhopefully it will stabilize eventuallyJun 28 15:07
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Node.js and Docker realignedJun 28 15:20
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/vKRTjFBZ6i (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 28 15:20
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     New ARM SoCs & Boards Supported By The LinuxJun 28 15:20
TweetTuxMachines                 4.2 Kernel http://t.co/sPilGmjTHuJun 28 15:20
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oiaohmlibinput is a case of you cannot make a omlet without breaking a few eggs.   The old synaptics driver also had a long list of different crashes and disasters.Jun 28 15:23
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Node.js and Docker realignedJun 28 17:15
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Gaming http://t.co/shOWwELiS3Jun 28 17:19
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Leftovers: Software http://t.co/QdcSvVv2FRJun 28 17:19
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Samsung Galaxy S6 -- Android at its finestJun 29 03:34
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TweetTuxMachines                 "Highly recommended."Jun 29 03:34
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oiaohmI knew there was something I forgot there is one thing Wayland is having a insane time implementing.   Its something that soulds so simple copy paste.Jun 29 04:36
oiaohmsould/soundsJun 29 04:37
cubexyzno distro seems to use wayland Jun 29 04:37
oiaohmFedora does on compadible systems for login screen.Jun 29 04:38
oiaohmDebian has wayland in main repository as optional.Jun 29 04:39
oiaohmcubexyz: GDM and a few other login managers can operately fully just using wayland.   So X11 is only kicked up in the user session.Jun 29 04:41
oiaohmSo the change over to wayland has started cubexyz just slow and carefully.Jun 29 04:41
oiaohmcubexyz: also you have to remember sailfish OS uses wayland at core for everything.Jun 29 04:43
oiaohmsailfish has no xwayland.Jun 29 04:44
cubexyzI remember basic linux had xvesa but I don't think any other distro uses thatJun 29 04:46
oiaohmDebian has had xvesaJun 29 04:48
oiaohmKnoppix discs loved using it.Jun 29 04:48
cubexyzI wanted to study the history of the X Window SystemJun 29 04:49
cubexyzgot some X10R4 codeJun 29 04:49
cubexyzxwm.c was so tinyJun 29 04:50
cubexyzplayed around with the idea of porting xwm.c but I didn't get too farJun 29 04:50
oiaohmYou would notJun 29 04:51
oiaohma lot of the apis that early xwm used are gone.Jun 29 04:51
oiaohmBecause they were broken so badly its not funny.Jun 29 04:51
cubexyzactually I did compile xwm.c but it was on quasijarus and I couldn't run itJun 29 04:52
cubexyzso I do have the early APIsJun 29 04:53
oiaohmNot exactly do you know the method of removing X11 API.Jun 29 04:53
oiaohmBreak the API and see if anyone complains in 3 years.Jun 29 04:53
oiaohmThen delete it.Jun 29 04:53
oiaohmSo some of those old programs will build but the API ABI side does not work.Jun 29 04:54
cubexyzI was interested in seeing now small a window manager could be in terms of lines of code but still be usableJun 29 04:54
oiaohmever seen ratposion cubexyzJun 29 04:55
cubexyzyesJun 29 04:55
oiaohmThat is about as small as you can get.Jun 29 04:55
cubexyzdidn't like it :)Jun 29 04:55
oiaohmratposion is a little on the small side.Jun 29 04:55
cubexyzthe idea was interesting but... it just didn't seem usableJun 29 04:55
oiaohmCutting away mouse operating and reducing to keyboard removes a huge stack of operations.Jun 29 04:56
cubexyzyou might have seen this:Jun 29 04:57
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/compare-all-wms.pngJun 29 04:57
cubexyztinywm was also unusableJun 29 04:58
cubexyzso far I mostly use icewmJun 29 04:59
cubexyzdwm is pretty smallJun 29 05:01
oiaohmThe closer to a bare min wm you get the more configuration you have todo.Jun 29 05:01
oiaohmTWM is normally the smallest I go.Jun 29 05:02
oiaohmBut once you add on pagers and everything else to be functional those bar min windows managers start getting a lot larger.Jun 29 05:03
oiaohmTWM configured usable and awesome take up about the same ammount of space.Jun 29 05:05
cubexyztrying to remember what file to edit to add a new wmJun 29 05:09
cubexyzI added it to .xinitrc but there's another thing...Jun 29 05:10
oiaohmwm list is ?dm releated.Jun 29 05:13
cubexyzmod1 == alt?Jun 29 05:14
cubexyzguess it doesJun 29 05:14
cubexyzugh, I can't move windowsJun 29 05:15
cubexyzah, there we goJun 29 05:16
cubexyzeverything seems based on using the alt key to do anythingJun 29 05:19
cubexyzimpressive small 28,832 bytesJun 29 05:19
oiaohmcubexyz: what are you playing with.Jun 29 05:20
cubexyzdefinitely old school, complete with troff man pageJun 29 05:20
cubexyzdwmJun 29 05:20
cubexyzif you wanted a micro-distro that would be a good addition :)Jun 29 05:21
oiaohmI remember why I don't use it.  Keyboard alt key dominates does not agree with a lot of programs I uese.Jun 29 05:21
oiaohmalt key to move windows lines up with alt key do a operation in blender.Jun 29 05:22
oiaohmThat is also the problem with some of the really compact wm X11 applicaitons are not design to get along with them.Jun 29 05:22
cubexyzyeah there's no .dwmrc which is a bit of a painJun 29 05:23
cubexyzone adjusts dwm by recompilingJun 29 05:23
oiaohmYes processing configuration file equals more ram usage.Jun 29 05:24
oiaohmBasically really compact wm for X11 totally lacks flexablity.Jun 29 05:24
cubexyzwhat do you normally use?Jun 29 05:25
oiaohmNormally kdeJun 29 05:25
oiaohmBut I have large ram so KDE foot print does not bother me at all.Jun 29 05:25
oiaohmMind you KDE memory fort print is better than Windows 8.0 and 8.1Jun 29 05:27
oiaohmSo even the worst X11 Wm is not that horible.Jun 29 05:27
cubexyzlet me see your htop :)Jun 29 05:27
cubexyzhttp://www.maxhost.org/other/icewm-htop.pngJun 29 05:30
cubexyzcomfortable with 512 meg, firefox is the biggest memory pig Jun 29 05:31
oiaohmPlease note virt is not used ammount.Jun 29 05:33
oiaohmMy plasma dekstop is reading 3.5 G virt but only 180 used.Jun 29 05:33
oiaohmKDE really need to learn to deallocate.Jun 29 05:34
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oiaohmcubexyz: I have a lot running on my system. htop shows paths to suff I should not show in public.Jun 29 05:35
cubexyzok, npJun 29 05:35
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cubexyzprobably the openbsd is the most efficientJun 29 05:37
cubexyzopenbsd boxJun 29 05:37
cubexyzI do love those coloured tabs in konsoleJun 29 05:38
cubexyzas you can see, I'm using parts of KDE stillJun 29 05:38
cubexyzI thought KDE was a bit overly elaborateJun 29 05:39
oiaohmplasma desktop is 3512M vit 187 Res and 69180 sharedJun 29 05:39
oiaohmAnd that is over 4 processes with 3 process that after kde is started never use a bit of cpu time again.Jun 29 05:40
oiaohmkde is a true pig.Jun 29 05:40
cubexyzdid you know you can do / searches in htop, quite handyJun 29 05:41
oiaohmI locked htop to sort by pidJun 29 05:42
cubexyzl lists open files for that processJun 29 05:42
oiaohmThe Res value is the real memory it using.Jun 29 05:43
cubexyzefficient text/ncurses interfaceJun 29 05:43
oiaohmOver all my system only has 4.5G in use.Jun 29 05:43
oiaohmIf all the virtual was allocated I would need something like 100GJun 29 05:43
cubexyzis there a config file for htop?Jun 29 05:43
oiaohmcubexyz: bash alias command.Jun 29 05:44
oiaohmTo force command line option.Jun 29 05:44
cubexyzhtop --sort-key PIDJun 29 05:45
cubexyzactually I think htop --sort-key Command might be betterJun 29 05:46
cubexyzdon't see any advantage sorting by PIDJun 29 05:46
oiaohmPID is set because it useful when needrestart reports.Jun 29 05:47
oiaohmBasically I have needrestart on by debian that restarts any service that is running old files and list stuff.Jun 29 05:48
oiaohmI do like that htop supports f6 to charge the sort after you are in.Jun 29 05:49
oiaohmMy biggest memory hog is iceweasel.Jun 29 05:49
oiaohmFollowed by chrome.Jun 29 05:49
oiaohmKDE is quite small on memory usaged compared to most browsers.Jun 29 05:50
oiaohmPlease note porting KDE applications to Windows.  KDE huge memory allocations become a big problem.Jun 29 05:50
oiaohmBecause Windows really allocates everything.Jun 29 05:50
cubexyzit's because everyone tries to do everything in the browser which is sillyJun 29 05:51
cubexyzI have no problem download video filesJun 29 05:52
cubexyzs/download/downloading/Jun 29 05:52
oiaohmOS X,  Linux, BSD all can run kde applications without memory problems due to the idea of virtual allocations.Jun 29 05:52
oiaohmIe only give application memory when it really uses what it has asked for idea.Jun 29 05:52
oiaohmcubexyz: libreoffice uses more than KDE.Jun 29 05:53
oiaohmKDE on a 8G system is lucky to come up to 4percent memory usage.Jun 29 05:53
oiaohmOf course that is under Linux.Jun 29 05:53
oiaohmNow run it under windows say ouch.Jun 29 05:54
oiaohmYes there is a KDE for windows project 16G of ram is kinda a bare min.Jun 29 05:54
cubexyzgood griefJun 29 05:54
cubexyzI think using GUIs for everything makes people dumberJun 29 05:56
cubexyzthey can't remember the names of directoriesJun 29 05:56
oiaohmnot really.   you are presume people did that in the first place.Jun 29 05:56
oiaohmI remember seeing walls and walls of paper stuck up with instructions in the dos age.Jun 29 05:57
cubexyzwell _I_ did :)Jun 29 05:57
oiaohmSo not remembering names of directories is nothing new.Jun 29 05:57
cubexyzi still can remember most directory namesJun 29 05:57
oiaohmI can too cubexyzJun 29 05:57
oiaohmBut the reality we are the minority.Jun 29 05:57
oiaohmthe majority are idiots.Jun 29 05:57
oiaohmor not interested.Jun 29 05:58
oiaohmreally like cubexyz how often do you see a password on a sticky note on a screen.Jun 29 05:58
cubexyzsurely they put it on the monitor's bezel? :)Jun 29 05:59
oiaohmcubexyz: hopefully.Jun 29 05:59
oiaohmI have seen some just stuck in the right hand top corner because they never use that bit of the screenJun 29 05:59
oiaohmThose people know how to use alt f4 to close windows.Jun 29 06:00
oiaohmor close them by the taskbar.Jun 29 06:00
cubexyzhahaJun 29 06:00
oiaohmGUI has not exactly made them dumber as they were not that bright in the first place.Jun 29 06:00
oiaohmJust has reduced the ammount of office litter.Jun 29 06:01
cubexyzthe "paperless" officeJun 29 06:02
oiaohmPart of getting to a paperless office is good GUI.Jun 29 06:02
oiaohmOther part is making something that can store data long term as good as paper.Jun 29 06:02
oiaohmNeither of these problems have we really solved.Jun 29 06:03
cubexyzyes, the restoration of the Unix version 1 kernel was only possible because one guy had printed all the codeJun 29 06:03
cubexyzm-disc claims it will last 1000 yearsJun 29 06:05
oiaohmcubexyz: will the drive?Jun 29 06:05
cubexyzno doubt it :)Jun 29 06:05
cubexyzI doubt itJun 29 06:05
cubexyzno wayJun 29 06:05
oiaohmReally I think bar codes printed on paper compacting the data could be the way forwards.Jun 29 06:05
oiaohmOk it would be hard for a human to read manually but it would not be impossible.Jun 29 06:06
cubexyzI doubt it would last 20 yearsJun 29 06:06
cubexyznone of my cdroms from the early 1990s still workJun 29 06:06
oiaohmI have one cdrom drive from 1994 that works.Jun 29 06:07
cubexyzI haven't had any success fixing cdrom drives eitherJun 29 06:08
oiaohmThat is out of 400Jun 29 06:08
cubexyzok, but is it a burner? Jun 29 06:08
cubexyzthose don't last too longJun 29 06:08
oiaohmNo its only a reader.Jun 29 06:08
oiaohmThis was a drive that was used for 10+ years before being taken out of service.Jun 29 06:08
cubexyzso they have stopped making ide drives, I'm a bit screwed Jun 29 06:09
oiaohmNot really.Jun 29 06:09
oiaohmThere are converts that convert from ide to sata and sata to ide.Jun 29 06:09
cubexyzmy Amiga needs SCSI 50 pinJun 29 06:09
cubexyzbut I think there's some CF thing that can be convertedJun 29 06:10
cubexyzpeople aren't thinking long term, it's 4 years then dump itJun 29 06:10
oiaohmThere is a SCSI 80 pin to sataJun 29 06:11
oiaohmYes you can use a cable from SCSI 50 to 80pinJun 29 06:11
oiaohmsata dvd /bluray drives access scsi commands.Jun 29 06:12
oiaohmcubexyz: I do a bit of making some of these odd machines work using modern hardware so they can be used on display.Jun 29 06:12
oiaohmYes you don't want to be wearing the collectable drives.Jun 29 06:12
oiaohmThere are horible things as solid state floppy drive emulators.Jun 29 06:14
oiaohmSo some of the collectable display machines set up if you turned up with a real historic floppy disc for the machine you would find you could not use it as they don't have the drive.Jun 29 06:14
cubexyz"Premininary Unix Implementation Document June 1972" it wasJun 29 06:16
cubexyzthat was printed outJun 29 06:16
cubexyzT. R. BashkowJun 29 06:16
cubexyzworthy of rememberanceJun 29 06:16
oiaohmI have to get going.Jun 29 06:17
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Is Google the New Microsoft?Jun 29 08:07
TweetTuxMachines                 http://t.co/IomExoTLis (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 08:07
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/mycspJun 29 08:07
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Is Google the New Microsoft? | Tux MachinesJun 29 08:07
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Meet Nova OS, Cuba's National Ubuntu-BasedJun 29 09:05
TweetTuxMachines                 Linux Operating System http://t.co/W0Um2YJGSxJun 29 09:05
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 09:05
TweetTuxMachines........................................  http://ur1.ca/myd7yJun 29 09:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Meet Nova OS, Cuba's National Ubuntu-Based Linux Operating System | Tux MachinesJun 29 09:05
TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Tiny Core 6.1 Raspberry Pi Edition Comes withJun 29 09:05
TweetTuxMachines                 Linux Kernel 3.18.10 LTS http://t.co/pvMZwq9ooDJun 29 09:05
TweetTuxMachines                 (www.tuxmachines.org)Jun 29 09:05
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Tiny Core 6.1 Raspberry Pi Edition Comes with Linux Kernel 3.18.10 LTS | Tux MachinesJun 29 09:05
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     LINUX, RUBY AND WEB CODING LAB FOR GRADUATEJun 29 09:05
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Galicia publishes open source toolsJun 29 12:21
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Solus Gets Daily ISOs, Linux Kernel 4.1 LTS,Jun 29 12:21
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TweetTuxMachines@tuxmachines     Aragon publishes updates of eGovernmentJun 29 12:21
TweetTuxMachines                 software http://t.co/qByVrX5ZPXJun 29 12:21
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roy__>Jun 29 12:35
roy__> http://fossforce.com/2015/06/is-google-the-new-microsoft/Jun 29 12:35
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fossforce.com | Is Google the New Microsoft? | FOSS Force [ http://ur1.ca/myex2 ]Jun 29 12:35
roy__>Jun 29 12:35
roy__> Revisionism especially that closing sentence.  People hate M$ not forJun 29 12:35
roy__> the sake of hating M$ but because of how it (and its people) behaves andJun 29 12:35
roy__> has behaved.  It has held computing back at least 20 years and theJun 29 12:35
roy__> damage spreads into all domains where desktop computers are used.Jun 29 12:35
roy__I don't want to pick on Christine because she has been kind to us and we usually agree with her. She also defended DRM and other nasty things at times, but diversity of opinion sometimes needs to be tolerated.Jun 29 12:35
oiaohmGoogle has the possiblity of being the next Microsofit but Google is not getting their own way all the time with OEMsJun 29 12:41
cubexyzthere's more diversity nowJun 29 12:50
cubexyzthere used to be Commodore/Atari/Radio Shack/etcJun 29 12:50
cubexyzwe're going back to a more diverse ecosystemJun 29 12:50
oiaohmReality a large percentage of the commodore/atari/Radio shack/etc was fake diversety.Jun 29 12:51
oiaohmPeople forget how often those machines were Microsoft basic.Jun 29 12:51
cubexyzz80/68000/6502/286Jun 29 12:52
roy__https://joindiaspora.com/posts/6282326Jun 29 12:53
-TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: #SandsCasino and #SheldonAdelson are "job creators" in the same sense that Pharaoh was. Building useless vanity for self indulgence.Jun 29 12:53
roy__"guess with enough money you're entitled to some Pharaoh complex, helps them contrast their memento mori - at least he went "all in" and finished it."Jun 29 12:53
cubexyzamigados, xenix, msdos, gem, etcJun 29 12:53
roy__Maybe he wants to be buried there, or cremated like the tyrant of singapore whom he supporte