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2021-06-12 21:56:25	--	Topic for #fsf is "Free Software Foundation | The FSF and GNU are transitioning their official project channels to Libera.chat. Read more about the decision and our rationale: https://u.fsf.org/3em | Member forum: <https://forum.members.fsf.org> | Watch the LP2021 videos: <https://media.libreplanet.org> | Ops: johnsu01 (FSF executive director), ggoes (FSF campaigns manager)"
2021-06-12 21:56:25	--	Topic set by ggoes (~gregf@fsf/staff/ggoes) on Fri, 11 Jun 2021 22:51:25
2021-06-12 21:56:26	--	Channel #fsf: 242 nicks (2 ops, 1 voice, 239 normals)
2021-06-12 21:56:26	--	URL for #fsf: https://www.fsf.org
2021-06-12 21:56:28	--	Channel created on Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:25:09
2021-06-12 21:57:29	Kasper	there is a paradigm shift coming, where the distinction between "biological" and "nonliving" matter will dissolve. it is a "turn away from Vitalism". basically the psychopathic rich overlords want to treat people like literal dirt and implant them with technology that monitors and controls every facet of life
2021-06-12 21:58:00	Kasper	I don't know if they'll succeed in this insane plan, but they are certainly trying
2021-06-12 21:59:34	epony	you would understand.. such hostage and abusive relations between hardware and software, and free labour explotation and greedy market capitalisation and maximum profit extraction and complete remote control and surveillance and espionage.. is going to be frowned up from other economic regions, not only as pure evil, but also from a humanitarian and ecological stand points
2021-06-12 22:00:06	epony	"up -> upon"
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2021-06-12 22:01:23	epony	the paradigm shift is not that, it's the "removal" of "sustainable and affordable" computing from your hands and placing it in centralised and dispersed points of control and processing (data centres) which serve the business needs, not yours
2021-06-12 22:01:54	epony	you have already seen it, it happened 20 years ago with the 64bit machines and is in deep progress
2021-06-12 22:03:13	epony	you sponsored it by buying extremely overpriced hardware that includes pricing for a couple of servers for each of you there, installed outside of your control and understanding, for 'your services' to which you're granted partial access for the purpose of exploiting you for subscriptions and monthly fees
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2021-06-12 22:03:48	Kasper	yes going from owning things -> leasing things as a service is a big push now
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2021-06-12 22:04:12	epony	and by replacing your software with ones that is "dependent" on those services, you fall into that insolvency and dependency, copletely
2021-06-12 22:04:58	epony	so you're now targets of cancellation from access to those resources for which you paid but you did not receive or own
2021-06-12 22:05:09	epony	if you do not behave in a controlled manner
2021-06-12 22:05:13	epony	you're excluded
2021-06-12 22:05:27	epony	and they call it "liberties" and "democracy"
2021-06-12 22:05:54	epony	while we call it being "owned" and being "controlled"
2021-06-12 22:07:13	epony	to which you can not even object, since it is unamerican to do so and you'll be jobless and defunded and hit with whatever you can get including accidental death
2021-06-12 22:07:47	epony	(not deauth, but plain deresolution)
2021-06-12 22:08:28	epony	remember, you're already jobless working as free labour for the big brother corporate warmerica
2021-06-12 22:09:15	epony	at least, get some public sector thing going on.. so you have human dignities and necessities covered ;-)
2021-06-12 22:12:17	epony	to the question "Who is more powerful, the one who has the hardware or the one who has the software?" the answer is "The ones that have the government approved mega-finances and the military bonded contracts with remote offshore slavery production facilities".
2021-06-12 22:14:44	epony	you have a temporary possession of a piece of hardware+firmware+software bundled tightly that is not suitable for long term use or production use, just for consumer applications which you have to buy again separately and pay for subscriptions, so you can not have enough time to use it and develop sustainable computing with that, and it changes year over year
2021-06-12 22:15:30	epony	it's not "capitalism won" it's a "system set for failure and abuse of freedoms and human rights"
2021-06-12 22:17:26	epony	and that's why, cyberpunk is popular, it's a depiction of the unfair and dystopian present realities
2021-06-12 22:18:13	White_Flame	Kasper: which is kinda funny, as owning things is the basis of capitalism.
2021-06-12 22:18:14	epony	and why people are getting mad and crowd protesting at unfair society and economic distribution of wealth and labour
2021-06-12 22:18:46	epony	so there is class struggle, but it is suppressed, and dismantled
2021-06-12 22:19:19	Kasper	I don't think it's funny, really, some of those "things" are intangible, like your private data
2021-06-12 22:19:33	epony	via division, segregation, caste and clan and tribal conflict, and primitive criminal warfare between small micro-communities (the imperial system gives you that)
2021-06-12 22:19:38	Kasper	I'm sure nobody wants to give that up to whoever wants it
2021-06-12 22:19:58	White_Flame	not funny ha-hah, but funny odd/ironic
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2021-06-12 22:20:06	Kasper	ah, sorry, text :P
2021-06-12 22:20:31	White_Flame	lots of people are more than willing to accept conveniences while knowingly giving up privacy
2021-06-12 22:20:58	White_Flame	and freedoms, and ownership, and autonomy, etc
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2021-06-12 22:21:34	epony	it's only funny if you believe you're not affected and sustaining damages from these settings of the socio-political and economic sub-systems
2021-06-12 22:21:35	White_Flame	the quality of life is good enough that people discount problems, and don't distrust deferences of their own lives
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2021-06-12 22:22:31	White_Flame	in other words, society has progressed to the point where people are now non-independent sitting ducks for subersive (and sometimes even overt) exploitation
2021-06-12 22:22:38	epony	which is why when someone says "I'm realist" we know they said "optmist beyond repair, but I have diseases and sufferings too"
2021-06-12 22:25:50	epony	exploitation has been the system, before the industrial "evolution", exploitation remained after the various stages of the "evolution" of industry and technology, because the system is created to be exploitive and completely unfair and undemocratic from the start, from the primary principles and directives and there have been so many layers of false shrouds over that, which nobody wants to cut without bursting into rivers of tears, that pandora's box looks
2021-06-12 22:25:50	epony	naive and childish in contrast
2021-06-12 22:26:36	epony	yet it's trivial to fix
2021-06-12 22:26:43	epony	if anyone actually wanted that
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2021-06-12 22:29:33	epony	you the individual gladly pay the price of complacency and disinterest, so that it continues to operate exactly as it is, while other countries have their economies "screaming" and "spiralling" into unsustainable populations and you think you're immune to dramatic regional and local problems, apart from occasional natural disasters, pandemics and a semi-military regime
2021-06-12 22:31:03	vaio	hey, stupid quesstion, and i don't mean any offense. But why are you allowed to keep that libera thing in your topic, while other projects got closed for the exact same reason ?
2021-06-12 22:31:47	epony	it was a brief period that happened, and has been reconsidered
2021-06-12 22:32:33	epony	it's not projects, it's third party hosted channels on IRC
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2021-06-12 22:33:24	oxek	vaio: because it's fine. This channel does not prevent people from discussion, nor spams people using bots, nor does anything else that would breach any freenode policies.
2021-06-12 22:34:02	vaio	oh, i see. thanks answering
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2021-06-13 01:52:38	CalimeroTeknik	oxek, then again other channels that by all accounts seemed to match these criteria in the same way have been closed
2021-06-13 01:53:27	oxek	CalimeroTeknik: there was a bug in the bot on the first day, but all those closures were reverted upon sending one email to support@freenode.net
2021-06-13 01:54:10	CalimeroTeknik	sure, I'm not talking about may 26
2021-06-13 01:55:15	oxek	afaik no other inexplicable closures happened since then
2021-06-13 01:55:38	CalimeroTeknik	I'm still trying to piece elements together concerning #python
2021-06-13 02:01:21	oxek	CalimeroTeknik: why would that even matter? The channel is elsewhere and doing fine.
2021-06-13 02:07:13	CalimeroTeknik	it seems to me that this applies to the current channel as well
2021-06-13 02:12:07	oxek	it probably does
2021-06-13 02:12:33	CrystalMath	CalimeroTeknik: channels are required to remain open, but there's no ban on certain topics
2021-06-13 02:12:58	CalimeroTeknik	ah, so #python was muted then?
2021-06-13 02:13:28	CrystalMath	i think so
2021-06-13 02:13:31	CrystalMath	they also had some bot
2021-06-13 02:13:36	CrystalMath	bother people
2021-06-13 02:13:40	CrystalMath	that's not allowed
2021-06-13 02:13:43	oxek	#python was all sorts of things, but it definitely had moved by that time
2021-06-13 02:13:49	oxek	so who even cares
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2021-06-13 02:14:01	CrystalMath	i'm glad it got closed down
2021-06-13 02:14:20	CalimeroTeknik	CrystalMath, at least one of the informations you gave contradicts mine, and serves your ideological position
2021-06-13 02:15:05	CalimeroTeknik	but besides this, isn't the current channel breaching freenode policy as was mentioned in the topic of #freenode earlier?
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2021-06-13 02:16:23	CalimeroTeknik	"Remember, we do not support spamming or advertising other networks in channels topics or in other forms." to be specific
2021-06-13 02:16:56	oxek	does that even matter? This channel exists on another network already.
2021-06-13 02:18:31	CrystalMath	CalimeroTeknik: what do you think is my ideological position?
2021-06-13 02:18:37	CalimeroTeknik	oxek, I fail to see a relation between what I said and your response
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2021-06-13 02:20:35	oxek	"Freenode is FOSS, that's why FSF channel was closed down" would not be a good headline for freenode, so this channel is likely safe.
2021-06-13 02:20:50	CalimeroTeknik	that's what I suspect, yes
2021-06-13 02:21:12	CalimeroTeknik	special exemption 'because FSF'
2021-06-13 02:21:23	CrystalMath	i mean i have channels that say "This channel is bridged to libera.chat" in the topic
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2021-06-13 02:21:41	CrystalMath	the channel is open and a relay bot works
2021-06-13 02:22:41	CrystalMath	i certainly don't intend to point people to the other network, but quite the contrary
2021-06-13 02:22:47	CrystalMath	to make it possible for people to stay here
2021-06-13 02:22:47	oxek	/msg alis list * -topic libera
2021-06-13 02:22:50	oxek	thousands of results
2021-06-13 02:23:08	oxek	so clearly that's not the issue
2021-06-13 02:24:09	CalimeroTeknik	that's technically non-sequitur, but it at least means that the mass culling from may 26ᵗʰ hasn't happened again
2021-06-13 02:24:27	CalimeroTeknik	although, I think the expression was libera.chat, not libera
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2021-06-13 02:42:54	audemenon	#Python Was Not Muted
2021-06-13 02:43:14	audemenon	Questions Were Being Answered
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2021-06-13 06:44:20	job	oh no
2021-06-13 06:44:26	root	sudo su
2021-06-13 06:44:35	TheRedHorseman	o/
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2021-06-13 06:44:50	Foxy	\o
2021-06-13 06:45:02	 *	TheRedHorseman trots around in a circle, eyes gleaming red in the dark
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2021-06-13 06:46:50	ggoes	never a dull moment
2021-06-13 06:46:56	bandali	^
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2021-06-13 06:47:19	job	ggoes: guess we have to accelerate the transition now :)
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2021-06-13 06:47:25	dbo	why?
2021-06-13 06:47:49	v8	who?
2021-06-13 06:47:51	root	what?
2021-06-13 06:47:57	Foxy	where
2021-06-13 06:48:03	TheRedHorseman	WHEN
2021-06-13 06:48:03	Foxy	where?
2021-06-13 06:48:20	TheRedHorseman	NO MORE SMEAR CAMPAIGNS
2021-06-13 06:48:28	TheRedHorseman	YOU OWE IT TO THE COMMUNITIES YOU SERVE
2021-06-13 06:48:41	←	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-13 06:48:45	dbo	each org is entitied to their view, and to communite their view
2021-06-13 06:48:59	v8	dbo: Nobody's taking that away
2021-06-13 06:49:30	←	job (job@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-dhtjyelnzoocvubg) has quit (Quit: I only serve the free software community. And the community has decided that freenode is hostile to the mission of software freedom.)
2021-06-13 06:49:45	dbo	ok, cool.  my sense was that attempts to paint mentioning a change of venue (even if one hates that change) as other than critical organizing business aren't in good faith
2021-06-13 06:49:57	dbo	sorry if I flew off the handle, here
2021-06-13 06:50:19	v8	There's always more to things than one may think
2021-06-13 06:50:44	dbo	there's always more to think about, but that drives complation more than decisive action.
2021-06-13 06:51:24	v8	The belief in open innovations, Creating, exploring, and community building within FOSS is a great thing. That's all I think about
2021-06-13 06:51:27	v8	Appreciate the talk.
2021-06-13 06:51:37	dbo	it me <3
2021-06-13 06:52:19	dbo	wait
2021-06-13 06:52:29	dbo	did I get here *after* something happened?
2021-06-13 06:52:35	dbo	what was that something?
2021-06-13 06:53:50	jxself	This channel is now under the control of Freenode, not the FSF.
2021-06-13 06:53:51	jxself	We'd like to have had a transitional period as mentioned in the announcement prior to loss of the channel, which Andrew Lee had indicated in the community meeting that he supported.
2021-06-13 06:54:22	→	stonecold (ac3a632c@172.58.99.44) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 06:55:36	←	wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-13 06:57:47	--	ChanServ has changed topic for #fsf from "Free Software Foundation | The FSF and GNU are transitioning their official project channels to Libera.chat. Read more about the decision and our rationale: https://u.fsf.org/3em | Member forum: <https://forum.members.fsf.org> | Watch the LP2021 videos: <https://media.libreplanet.org> | Ops: johnsu01 (FSF executive director), ggoes (FSF campaigns manager)" to "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/"
2021-06-13 06:58:40	→	dragestil (~quassel@fsf/member/dragestil) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 06:58:57	ggoes	hmm
2021-06-13 06:59:19	danielp3344	:C
2021-06-13 07:02:38	stonecold	RIP
2021-06-13 07:02:39	bandali	lol at least link an article that contains a link to the actual official announcement by the fsf
2021-06-13 07:03:50	--	ChanServ has changed topic for #fsf from "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/" to "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/"
2021-06-13 07:04:15	ggoes	that addition seems somewhat random
2021-06-13 07:04:21	root	Putting spam in the topic is not permitted.
2021-06-13 07:04:30	bandali	define spam
2021-06-13 07:05:23	bandali	so now the official announcement by the fsf is spam?
2021-06-13 07:05:51	root	The official announcement from "FSF" is on their website.
2021-06-13 07:05:58	→	ErrantEgo (~ErrantEgo@unaffiliated/errantego) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 07:06:02	dragestil	techrights is spam
2021-06-13 07:06:05	bandali	so what's spam?
2021-06-13 07:06:09	bandali	techrights is spam? then delete it
2021-06-13 07:06:12	root	#fsf is an IRC channel on the freenode IRC network where use is a privilege not a right.
2021-06-13 07:06:18	CrystalMath	techrights is not spam
2021-06-13 07:06:23	EasyAsPie	hi?
2021-06-13 07:06:23	bandali	what the fuck does that mean?
2021-06-13 07:06:25	root	Code of Conduct is outlined on the freenode policy page.  It's QUITE lengthy!
2021-06-13 07:06:32	root	Let me share
2021-06-13 07:06:37	ggoes	while we're making announcements https://nitter.fdn.fr/fsf/status/1403941542532952067#m | https://hostux.social/@fsf/106401675608265204
2021-06-13 07:06:45	root	No spamming or scamming
2021-06-13 07:06:47	root	No flooding
2021-06-13 07:06:49	root	No promotion of violence
2021-06-13 07:06:51	root	No illegal pornographic material
2021-06-13 07:06:53	root	freenode staff may disconnect clients for any reason
2021-06-13 07:06:55	root	Citizens of EU countries and the United Kingdom must be at least 16 years old to sign up.
2021-06-13 07:06:57	root	We reserve the right to update these Terms of Service later.
2021-06-13 07:07:01	bandali	thank you ggoes
2021-06-13 07:07:15	bandali	lol no flooding, then proceeds to flood the channel. nice
2021-06-13 07:07:41	→	GK-Deacon (~blowme@69-63-34-56.cable.execulink.com) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 07:08:28	→	Time-Warp (Time-Warp@mirbsd/fan/time-warp) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 07:08:32	root	define flood
2021-06-13 07:09:03	GK-Deacon	what happens when you take a number 2?
2021-06-13 07:09:08	GK-Deacon	and it gets stuc
2021-06-13 07:09:21	GK-Deacon	do i win a prize?
2021-06-13 07:10:41	dragestil	I'm dropping my nick now, bye everyone
2021-06-13 07:11:25	GK-Deacon	bye
2021-06-13 07:11:32	stonecold	root: is this your second or third line of cocaine buddy?
2021-06-13 07:11:48	←	dragestil (~quassel@fsf/member/dragestil) has left #fsf ("https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
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2021-06-13 07:12:25	←	stonecold (ac3a632c@172.58.99.44) has quit (Disconnected by services)
2021-06-13 07:12:45	→	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf
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2021-06-13 07:14:51	←	bandali (~bandali@fsf/emeritus/bandali) has quit (K-Lined)
2021-06-13 07:17:07	←	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
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2021-06-13 07:40:04	White_Flame	re the "bug" in the channel takeover script that exacerbated all of this, the changed /topic in affected channels only mentioned that the channel topic was against freenode policy, and didn't mention locking/spamming/etc the channel at all
2021-06-13 07:40:50	→	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 07:41:20	EasyAsPie	hi
2021-06-13 07:41:22	EasyAsPie	az
2021-06-13 07:42:41	oaken-source	if there ever was an action that defines the term 'nail in the coffin', then it was this channel takeover situation and the communication immediately afterwards.
2021-06-13 07:43:06	test333	what is happening?
2021-06-13 07:43:16	oaken-source	not 'is', 'was' :)
2021-06-13 07:43:54	test333	this is confusing
2021-06-13 07:44:05	ggoes	yeah
2021-06-13 07:44:08	oaken-source	don't worry.
2021-06-13 07:44:18	oaken-source	I don't think any of this is relevant anymore
2021-06-13 07:44:54	→	john12335 (~john@irc.43-1.org) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 07:45:19	test333	just read the link in the topic
2021-06-13 07:45:27	oaken-source	luckily, whether through incompetence or malice, the freenode crisis was blessedly short.
2021-06-13 07:45:42	←	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-06-13 07:46:47	EasyAsPie	hi oaken
2021-06-13 07:46:48	EasyAsPie	how r u
2021-06-13 07:46:53	oaken-source	I'm good
2021-06-13 07:47:21	EasyAsPie	good
2021-06-13 07:47:21	oaken-source	I just upgraded my riscv build of system, which took me a day of stressful typing, but now I'm good again
2021-06-13 07:47:23	EasyAsPie	nice to meet u
2021-06-13 07:47:27	oaken-source	*systemd
2021-06-13 07:50:07	EasyAsPie	?
2021-06-13 07:51:46	john12335	So, who has control over this channel now?
2021-06-13 07:51:47	oaken-source	I'm working on porting a distribution to a new CPU architecture.
2021-06-13 07:51:55	oaken-source	it's fun, but can be stressful.
2021-06-13 07:51:57	ggoes	freenode
2021-06-13 07:52:30	epony	oaken-source, it was sealed before that with the decision to move out being placed in the topic rather than in the channel join chanserv notice / channel url
2021-06-13 07:52:35	john12335	And the first thing they do is putting some strange, strange, techrights crap into the topic?
2021-06-13 07:53:01	ggoes	i respectfully request to get the techrights link taken out of the topic; it's confusing to people who joined before the hullabaloo, and anyone even remotely familiar with the workload of the fsf tech team would realize why we can't host our own irc server
2021-06-13 07:53:06	epony	and people you do not know in the lead, who abandon the post immediately
2021-06-13 07:53:22	ggoes	*joined after
2021-06-13 07:53:25	ggoes	getting tired here
2021-06-13 07:53:39	john12335	ggoes: Can imagine :-(
2021-06-13 07:53:53	john12335	ggoes: Well, well. See you on the other side.
2021-06-13 07:54:35	john12335	ggoes: It is in particular funny that root's account is registered for about 1d.
2021-06-13 07:54:57	ggoes	i thought it was funny root is connecting from evil corp; reminds me i need to finish mr. robot
2021-06-13 07:55:00	oaken-source	also, root is connected via evilcorp.freenode.net, which is especially ironic
2021-06-13 07:55:21	epony	that's just a rdns record
2021-06-13 07:55:55	oaken-source	https://netsplit.de/servers/details.php?host=evilcorp.freenode.net
2021-06-13 07:56:10	epony	that server is in a relatively good place on the internet (OVH, CA)
2021-06-13 07:56:22	oaken-source	wait, so they actually took over #fsf and posted garbage in the topic?
2021-06-13 07:56:25	oaken-source	I only just realized
2021-06-13 07:56:41	john12335	That's professional.
2021-06-13 07:56:59	CrystalMath	john12335: root is the owner of freenode, but it's a new nickname
2021-06-13 07:57:10	←	mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has quit (Excess Flood)
2021-06-13 07:57:30	oaken-source	what the actual fuck.
2021-06-13 07:57:33	john12335	CrystalMath: rasengan --> root ?
2021-06-13 07:57:42	oaken-source	I thougt they couldn't go lower, but apparently I was wrong
2021-06-13 07:57:50	CrystalMath	john12335: correct
2021-06-13 07:57:58	epony	well, nothing has changed for the channel objectively for the moment
2021-06-13 07:58:08	→	mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 07:58:08	epony	except a topic change and access list replace
2021-06-13 07:58:13	oaken-source	well, the topic has changed.
2021-06-13 07:58:27	epony	well, that does not interfere with communication
2021-06-13 07:58:35	oaken-source	and the topic makes it out as such the link has been placed there by FSF staff, and not a malicious third party
2021-06-13 07:58:44	epony	we can always consult with each other and similar
2021-06-13 07:59:27	epony	the official lists of FSF channels is on a FSF domain though
2021-06-13 07:59:41	john12335	So?
2021-06-13 07:59:47	oaken-source	oh blessed kindness of the malicious third party, to leave that link in place.
2021-06-13 07:59:51	john12335	epony: I can also converse with you about whatever on the street.
2021-06-13 08:00:05	epony	john12335, no because I will not respond to that ;-)
2021-06-13 08:00:35	CrystalMath	ggoes: RMS will be getting another email from schestowitz soon, asking for GNU to self-host IRC
2021-06-13 08:00:37	oaken-source	root: get back here and explain yourself.
2021-06-13 08:00:37	john12335	yeah whatever.
2021-06-13 08:00:48	CrystalMath	ggoes: he wrote about this publicly, that's why i'm saying it
2021-06-13 08:00:55	ggoes	CrystalMath: i'm aware
2021-06-13 08:00:58	altwulf	epony: #fsf and #gnu have had their acclists extirpated. The channels now belong exclusively to FN staff.
2021-06-13 08:01:05	ggoes	CrystalMath: i just got an email from rms saying we made the right decision; funny how that works
2021-06-13 08:01:16	epony	I told you about self-hosting ;-) on the meeting with the voting..
2021-06-13 08:02:11	activelow	i am confused still: since 2015 already Mr. Lee of Korean Telecom was placed as head of ITU-T similar to the majesty of freenode in charge (whatever the relevance of either)
2021-06-13 08:02:15	john12335	Well, you might technically "own" the channels, you don't own the users, ne c'est pas?
2021-06-13 08:02:32	john12335	* n'est-ce pas
2021-06-13 08:02:43	 *	john12335 should refresh their french.
2021-06-13 08:02:48	epony	of course, users visit the project homepage, consult with that, and follow that note
2021-06-13 08:02:53	activelow	so Mr. Lee now "owns" ITU-T and "Freenode is FOSS"
2021-06-13 08:02:59	ggoes	freenode is irc
2021-06-13 08:03:07	activelow	what do you expect to accomplish with this child's play
2021-06-13 08:03:08	activelow	?
2021-06-13 08:03:11	epony	but nothing prevents independent third party communities to form elsewhere
2021-06-13 08:03:12	←	Time-Warp (Time-Warp@mirbsd/fan/time-warp) has quit (Quit: We Are Legion)
2021-06-13 08:03:49	epony	it just won't be official, it will be "themed" about the project and related discussions
2021-06-13 08:04:16	epony	in that regard, it is not official on other IRC networks too, unless it is managed by the project
2021-06-13 08:04:40	jxself	There used to be # and ## to make that distinction between official and not.
2021-06-13 08:05:06	epony	right, but that is a worse option from previous channel events
2021-06-13 08:05:43	epony	since it breaks the setup in clients and users don't follow completely or get confused etc
2021-06-13 08:06:32	oaken-source	this mess makes me unreasonably angry. I'm going to go for a walk.
2021-06-13 08:06:36	jxself	That was part of the reasoning behind arranging the forwarding to # to ## so that it would happen automatically without people having to change their client.
2021-06-13 08:07:08	john12335	I 'own' #fsf and #gnu on my own private ircd.
2021-06-13 08:08:06	epony	better not shuffle people to ## and later back to #, that will cause disruption to clients as a net effect
2021-06-13 08:09:16	←	lumidify (~lumidify@unaffiliated/lumidify) has left #fsf
2021-06-13 08:09:18	john12335	I am frankly bewildered how freenode staff is talking in #freenode
2021-06-13 08:10:00	→	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:10:33	ErrantEgo	yeah, the professionalism went right out the window
2021-06-13 08:13:54	epony	20 years ago..
2021-06-13 08:14:16	oaken-source	 what did I miss in #freenode?
2021-06-13 08:14:25	activelow	Telecom was sold long ago, long before this nonsense recently
2021-06-13 08:14:26	oaken-source	I forgot I ragequit that channel a few days ago
2021-06-13 08:14:31	activelow	"privatized"
2021-06-13 08:14:37	→	waltercool (waltercool@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/waltercool) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:14:44	activelow	i won't shed tears about any of this
2021-06-13 08:14:48	activelow	anymore
2021-06-13 08:15:35	oaken-source	ggoes: have you asked in #freenode to have the /topic line changed?
2021-06-13 08:15:54	ggoes	i'd rather not be k-lined tonight
2021-06-13 08:16:02	←	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-06-13 08:16:03	epony	;-)
2021-06-13 08:16:07	CrystalMath	ggoes: techrights really isn't bad
2021-06-13 08:16:43	ggoes	CrystalMath: no, they aren't. i read every post. but having any third-party post in the topic is very weird for an "official" channel
2021-06-13 08:16:44	ggoes	and confusing
2021-06-13 08:17:01	epony	it's not official any more..
2021-06-13 08:17:32	oaken-source	that's a very lame excuse.
2021-06-13 08:18:56	CrystalMath	ggoes: it says the FSF has moved and this is now something else
2021-06-13 08:19:07	CrystalMath	it's a chat about free software
2021-06-13 08:19:51	←	Ekis (~Ekis@cpe74da881c916d-cm30b7d4bb2eb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2021-06-13 08:20:27	oaken-source	I'm wondering if speaking up in #freenode would give me closure or make me ever more mad
2021-06-13 08:20:51	ggoes	i recommend sleep, chamomile tea, and/or meditation rather than that
2021-06-13 08:21:00	epony	stay here, enjoy our company
2021-06-13 08:21:03	oaken-source	it's 8AM to
2021-06-13 08:21:09	oaken-source	*tho
2021-06-13 08:21:13	ggoes	oh, hmm
2021-06-13 08:21:21	ggoes	don't want to start your day off on the wrong foot then
2021-06-13 08:21:22	oaken-source	I literally woke up to this mess ^^
2021-06-13 08:22:18	epony	happens.. it was outlined to wind down like that with the movement decisions etc, just no need to invest personal frustration into decisions of other people
2021-06-13 08:22:33	←	altwulf (~altwulf@64.227.64.196) has left #fsf
2021-06-13 08:23:11	oaken-source	if those decisions directly affect your daily communications, then that's a good reason to be frustrated.
2021-06-13 08:23:18	oaken-source	it's sad to see a god network run to the ground like this.
2021-06-13 08:23:23	activelow	when telecom was forced into "privatization" at least they had to provide "mobile number portability" (which was an insane technical chaos, still is)
2021-06-13 08:24:20	epony	imagine the level of difficulty this was in the porting Unix to micro-computers epoch
2021-06-13 08:24:55	epony	(predates IRC by 5+, more like ~10 years)
2021-06-13 08:25:34	epony	there was no email back then even
2021-06-13 08:25:35	ggoes	we still have some of the reel to reel gnu tapes from back in the day
2021-06-13 08:25:40	ggoes	they're pretty neat
2021-06-13 08:25:44	epony	yeah
2021-06-13 08:26:24	→	AppleGNU (~textual@unaffiliated/applegnu) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:26:34	epony	I don't have tapes, I have punch cards and floppies ;-) started immediately on micro-computers while running around DECs
2021-06-13 08:27:01	←	mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2021-06-13 08:27:01	epony	(and drum HDD platters the size of a TV antenna)
2021-06-13 08:27:35	epony	(and paper tape.. for comms and keys)
2021-06-13 08:31:37	epony	the Kühlschrank computers were not "take it with you to your home and new lab" compatible (so a tape would not be portable, unless you have the same racks)
2021-06-13 08:32:19	epony	but that's how it was carried around between research universities
2021-06-13 08:32:24	oaken-source	lee is currently having himself celebrated as a trillionaire and king of irc in #freenode.
2021-06-13 08:33:11	ggoes	he said agpl "isn't software freedom" :(
2021-06-13 08:33:26	audemenon	He Is The Happiest Little Boy Sat Under The Christmas Tree Unwrapping His New Toy
2021-06-13 08:33:31	CrystalMath	ggoes: that's just bickering between him and Ariadne
2021-06-13 08:33:37	AppleGNU	oaken-source: I like the talk of cancelling cancel culture on the main website, but this does seem to have devolved into trolling.
2021-06-13 08:33:37	→	hmmmmm (~nobody@c-71-62-227-79.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:33:57	CrystalMath	ggoes: i wouldn't take stuff said there too seriously
2021-06-13 08:34:25	CrystalMath	at least in a philosophical way
2021-06-13 08:35:06	epony	the real policies are in the software republishers' hands
2021-06-13 08:35:32	epony	(as per the software "intended" appliation notes, no more)
2021-06-13 08:35:32	CrystalMath	ggoes: Ariadne actually wanted busybox rewritten under the MIT license
2021-06-13 08:35:59	epony	you don't just rewrite to change a licence, you do it to re-implement it better
2021-06-13 08:36:14	CrystalMath	ggoes: and she offered money for that
2021-06-13 08:36:17	epony	(and most of the time it is not better)
2021-06-13 08:36:33	ggoes	i don't want to gossip about anyone, i just found it telling
2021-06-13 08:37:11	AppleGNU	It is not gossiping if it is out in the open.
2021-06-13 08:37:29	CrystalMath	what i mean is, perhaps i didn't say it properly, but Ariadne isn't serious about the AGPL, she just wants to spite Andrew Lee
2021-06-13 08:37:40	CrystalMath	that's all there is to it
2021-06-13 08:37:49	oaken-source	I just realized what lee is -- he's a pirate.
2021-06-13 08:38:07	AppleGNU	This is all amusing. I just don't know what the limit to that is.
2021-06-13 08:38:13	→	niconiconi (~user@fsf/member/biergaizi) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:38:19	oaken-source	he's commandeered the network, and is now keelhauling anyone who he fears could start a mutiny
2021-06-13 08:38:39	AppleGNU	Is it true that this channel is no longer under FSF control?
2021-06-13 08:38:44	jxself	It is true.
2021-06-13 08:38:46	epony	that is not an adequate analogy though
2021-06-13 08:38:58	epony	since at sea you can't shift vessels at your free will
2021-06-13 08:39:22	AppleGNU	CrystalMath: How could you justify this channel being taken? Didn't Lee say he supported whichever decision was made?
2021-06-13 08:39:23	jxself	The ones that are under FSF control are on the network that cannot be mentioned but the FSF website has the announcement.
2021-06-13 08:39:45	oaken-source	AppleGNU: obviously, lee lied.
2021-06-13 08:39:48	oaken-source	to nobides surprise
2021-06-13 08:39:53	oaken-source	*nobodies
2021-06-13 08:39:54	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: this channel does state that the FSF has left
2021-06-13 08:40:00	→	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:40:04	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: there's no confusion created here
2021-06-13 08:40:13	AppleGNU	CrystalMath: Still, why was it taken?
2021-06-13 08:40:15	john12335	lol
2021-06-13 08:40:31	epony	why not?
2021-06-13 08:40:33	ggoes	it doesn't say where we moved to, that's a little confusing
2021-06-13 08:40:36	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: i suspect it was because of a certain network in the topic
2021-06-13 08:40:41	ggoes	if their intentions are good, that shouldn't be a big deal, right?
2021-06-13 08:41:19	CrystalMath	ggoes: if you do a /list and see a certain network's name in most channels on your IRC network, would you consider it spam?
2021-06-13 08:41:24	AppleGNU	It's kind of deceitful. The # prefix would mean an official channel.
2021-06-13 08:41:29	oaken-source	CrystalMath: stop being their little puppy.
2021-06-13 08:41:29	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: not anymore!
2021-06-13 08:41:51	activelow	IRC simply isn't as relevant as much time is devoted to it, or when will #fsf #gnu choose to implement something different than openssl ITU-T/ANSI standard ?
2021-06-13 08:41:52	epony	the ## policy is old staff being untrue about # being official
2021-06-13 08:42:19	activelow	i hadn't noticed any drama about VHDL software tooling unavailable (to my knowledge) either
2021-06-13 08:42:26	White_Flame	but the old takeover bot did move things to ##, why not this one?
2021-06-13 08:42:28	AppleGNU	And wtf was up with NickServ being left vulnerable?
2021-06-13 08:42:36	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: it wasn't
2021-06-13 08:42:41	epony	it's only relevant when you're hostaging free communities and the network is large and pretending to be "official" and "temp hosting / general talk unofficial"
2021-06-13 08:42:44	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: a staff member was holding it
2021-06-13 08:43:04	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: that's why changing passwords was optional - by connecting you pretty much trust staff anyway
2021-06-13 08:43:24	epony	so, that ## thing was a bad decision from the previous team and other networks, as it is deceitful to users and creates the preconditions for the problems seen
2021-06-13 08:43:59	epony	in fact, the previous staff was abusing "trust" that # was some-what official
2021-06-13 08:43:59	CrystalMath	epony: it was Rob Levin's idea to split the namespace this way, we don't know why he chose it
2021-06-13 08:44:11	epony	I know.
2021-06-13 08:44:14	→	Nemo_bis (federico@wikimedia/Nemo-bis) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:44:17	White_Flame	obviously it was the new staff that moved # to ## with the bot
2021-06-13 08:45:07	epony	to create pressure points towards communities to ask and whine in front of projects on behalf of the IRC third party hosting to endorse it as an "official" IRC channel, which was then used to steer public opinion and communications
2021-06-13 08:45:25	epony	and you see the result from that over the years of facebuckling springs
2021-06-13 08:45:33	CrystalMath	well freenode still hosts official project channels
2021-06-13 08:45:46	epony	IRC is just social talk ;-)
2021-06-13 08:46:03	epony	real work happens on mailing lists
2021-06-13 08:46:08	CrystalMath	i know projects that are officially on espernet
2021-06-13 08:46:23	CrystalMath	so it doesn't take a # vs ## policy to have that
2021-06-13 08:46:23	←	john12335 (~john@irc.43-1.org) has left #fsf
2021-06-13 08:46:24	epony	maybe, but they are putting their eggs in other people's baskets
2021-06-13 08:46:51	epony	the chat service is valuable to communities
2021-06-13 08:46:57	←	azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2021-06-13 08:47:12	epony	projects and hosting service providers should be able to agree upon that delegation and management
2021-06-13 08:47:16	CrystalMath	epony: eh, i always did development over IRC
2021-06-13 08:47:22	CrystalMath	it's not bad
2021-06-13 08:47:50	epony	I like IRC too, it's interactive and person to person engaging..
2021-06-13 08:48:45	epony	everyday people however forget, that it's exactly like the mailing lists in that the rooms are "public" and the off room talk "pseudo-private" talk
2021-06-13 08:49:17	←	Nemo_bis (federico@wikimedia/Nemo-bis) has left #fsf
2021-06-13 08:49:23	epony	and it becomes difficult to manage/congested since it's not threaded in the rooms
2021-06-13 08:49:31	epony	while email / forum space is
2021-06-13 08:49:31	←	KindOne (kindone@unaffiliated/kindone) has quit (K-Lined)
2021-06-13 08:49:54	epony	and that is the decisive point for work getting done (actual issue tracking)
2021-06-13 08:50:19	←	niconiconi (~user@fsf/member/biergaizi) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2021-06-13 08:50:19	←	activelow (~aggi@gateway/tor-sasl/aggi) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2021-06-13 08:50:36	→	activelow (~aggi@gateway/tor-sasl/aggi) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 08:51:15	epony	in the future of IRC, you'll click a message of someone and thread / fork it (reply to that) interactively
2021-06-13 08:51:46	CrystalMath	not my future, no mouse
2021-06-13 08:51:54	epony	:-)
2021-06-13 08:52:09	oaken-source	epony: you are describing slack
2021-06-13 08:52:13	epony	what shall we do.. with all that "automation" power
2021-06-13 08:52:19	CrystalMath	epony: in my future i'll buy more cassette tapes
2021-06-13 08:52:31	epony	you can fork your future, NOW!
2021-06-13 08:52:39	AppleGNU	Be sure to get the metal cassette tapes.
2021-06-13 08:52:47	AppleGNU	Those have the best audio quality.
2021-06-13 08:53:07	epony	we call them HDDs now ;-)
2021-06-13 08:53:22	epony	the metal tapes
2021-06-13 08:53:23	AppleGNU	yikes... spinning media...
2021-06-13 08:53:33	epony	like tape is folded?
2021-06-13 08:53:37	epony	:-D
2021-06-13 08:54:07	AppleGNU	I'll just enjoy the fact that I own no functioning computers with spinning disks.
2021-06-13 08:54:11	epony	"muh rusty bits fell off, I am a mylarnial"
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2021-06-13 08:54:24	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: i use floppy disks even
2021-06-13 08:54:28	CrystalMath	and no SSDs ever
2021-06-13 08:54:35	epony	SSDs are still immature
2021-06-13 08:54:41	oaken-source	lol
2021-06-13 08:54:50	AppleGNU	Makes sense as to why you are on the ReactOS project now, CrystalMath
2021-06-13 08:54:51	AppleGNU	:-)
2021-06-13 08:55:13	←	Whistler (uid479003@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhdwdyigookogglv) has left #fsf
2021-06-13 08:56:27	AppleGNU	Who controls this rig now anyway?
2021-06-13 08:56:38	jxself	Freenode.
2021-06-13 08:56:58	AppleGNU	jxself: It's usually under a single op when that happens.
2021-06-13 08:57:09	CrystalMath	AppleGNU: v8 i think
2021-06-13 08:57:26	epony	/msg cs access #fsf list
2021-06-13 08:57:37	v8	Not me, sorry. If I have access I'll remove it
2021-06-13 08:57:40	epony	or /cs if you have that in your client
2021-06-13 08:57:44	jxself	Yes, the founder is listed as Andrew Lee.
2021-06-13 08:58:07	--	Mode #fsf [+o root] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 08:58:15	--	Mode #fsf [-o+v root root] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 08:58:19	--	Mode #fsf [-v root] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 08:58:21	v8	sorry
2021-06-13 08:58:25	v8	messing with access stuff
2021-06-13 08:58:53	activelow	Mr. Lee of korean telecom is head of ITU-T too
2021-06-13 08:58:58	activelow	what a "surprise"
2021-06-13 08:59:06	AppleGNU	Now joking is happening in #freenode about lower amount of users means less RAM usage.
2021-06-13 08:59:16	oaken-source	technically true
2021-06-13 08:59:27	epony	let's not go into internationall committees overwatch just yet ;-)
2021-06-13 08:59:48	oaken-source	v8: are there plans to eventually had over control of #fsf to a trusted community member?
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2021-06-13 09:02:29	epony	good question
2021-06-13 09:03:02	→	silver (silver@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-kwjdwlgrlqrdatbw) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 09:03:04	epony	it's an airdrop in #gnu (parachute)
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2021-06-13 09:03:09	v8	I believe so, that's what usually happens. There are volunteers now with freenode "Freenode Helpers" that will be helping with community things as well. I haven't been asked to decide on anything currently, but that's what I have to my knowledge. For something like this channel, it would be better if community members that have been here with the chat community get that access
2021-06-13 09:03:26	--	silver is now known as Guest8055
2021-06-13 09:03:31	oaken-source	I would volunteer as a custodian for the time being.
2021-06-13 09:03:46	CrystalMath	v8: i've been here for a long time (at least 2013) and i registred ##fsf as it was planned to redirect to there
2021-06-13 09:04:03	CrystalMath	so i also volunteer to take care of the channel
2021-06-13 09:04:31	CrystalMath	i believe in the FSF and in freenode :)
2021-06-13 09:04:37	oaken-source	I'm critical of both.
2021-06-13 09:04:50	oaken-source	but reasonably so.
2021-06-13 09:05:05	epony	"there can be only one"
2021-06-13 09:05:38	oaken-source	maybe we would make a good team, honestly
2021-06-13 09:05:45	CrystalMath	oaken-source: yeah
2021-06-13 09:07:05	v8	so oaken-source and CrystalMath as operators?
2021-06-13 09:07:25	AppleGNU	Sounds good to me
2021-06-13 09:07:48	epony	since you wanted the topic to include a statement / URL of the official FSF domain space, let someone behind from there to remain in custory too (from FSF domain space listed people)
2021-06-13 09:08:35	CrystalMath	epony: i would recommend jxself for that
2021-06-13 09:09:02	jxself	I would be okay with that.
2021-06-13 09:09:05	epony	https://www.fsf.org/about/staff-and-board
2021-06-13 09:09:18	CrystalMath	epony: jxself is an entrusted GNU webmaster
2021-06-13 09:09:53	epony	ok
2021-06-13 09:10:14	AppleGNU	epony: https://www.gnu.org/people/webmeisters.html
2021-06-13 09:10:17	AppleGNU	top name
2021-06-13 09:11:06	jxself	Yes, Chief Webmaster. And from https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-structure.html - "The GNU Webmaster Group is led by the Chief Webmaster who reports to the Chief GNUisance"
2021-06-13 09:11:50	oaken-source	I love that the FSF has a sense of humor from the 80s :)
2021-06-13 09:12:04	epony	isantially
2021-06-13 09:12:07	jxself	Also on the GNU Advisory Committee: https://www.gnu.org/contact/gnu-advisory
2021-06-13 09:15:07	→	Meli (~meli@fsf/member/meli) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 09:16:25	--	Mode #fsf [+o CrystalMath] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 09:16:39	--	Mode #fsf [+o oaken-source] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 09:16:49	v8	not sure if I did that right, bouncing between tasks right now
2021-06-13 09:17:30	@CrystalMath	looks correct
2021-06-13 09:17:53	AppleGNU	All hail trustees CrystalMath, and oaken-source
2021-06-13 09:18:02	@oaken-source	looks good, thanks
2021-06-13 09:19:37	--	Mode #fsf [-o oaken-source] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 09:19:43	--	Mode #fsf [+o oaken-source] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 09:20:00	--	Mode #fsf [-o oaken-source] by ChanServ
2021-06-13 09:22:18	oaken-source	so, should we do somethig about the topic?
2021-06-13 09:22:49	oaken-source	I'd probably argue we should leave the techrights link in, but make explicit that it's not an official FSF statement.
2021-06-13 09:22:53	oaken-source	what do you think, CrystalMath ?
2021-06-13 09:24:39	microfracture	I'd have it removed completely personally
2021-06-13 09:25:29	jxself	Yes, it's just a call for the FSF to run their own IRC network it seems. That option was considered. My understanding is that there is no capacity with the tech team to bring on more things at this point.
2021-06-13 09:25:29	microfracture	It adds no value and was not added by FSF staff / channel operators
2021-06-13 09:25:42	--	TheRedHorseman is now known as phanes
2021-06-13 09:25:55	fling	what is going on
2021-06-13 09:25:59	oaken-source	the thing is, the person who added it would simply add it back if we removed it.
2021-06-13 09:26:00	jxself	So what is the point of continuing to call it out on the /topic?
2021-06-13 09:26:27	←	DasBrain (~DasBrain@unaffiliated/dasbrain) has left #fsf ("This is not the #fsf I have been looking for")
2021-06-13 09:26:36	jxself	Is that known? It's not clear to me what Freenode staff will be doing on an ongoing basis.
2021-06-13 09:26:50	oaken-source	yes.
2021-06-13 09:26:54	oaken-source	no.
2021-06-13 09:27:00	oaken-source	no to the first part, yes to the second
2021-06-13 09:27:22	oaken-source	we'll have to keep rolling with the punches I guess :)
2021-06-13 09:28:00	→	cb400f (~cb400f@opensuse/member/Cb400f) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 09:28:01	@CrystalMath	jxself: schestowitz said that RMS declined that
2021-06-13 09:28:17	oaken-source	jxself: can we get a shortlink for this: https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-gnu-move-official-irc-channels-to-libera-chat-network
2021-06-13 09:28:32	@CrystalMath	oaken-source: let's keep irc-rules.en.html, it has the proper link
2021-06-13 09:28:36	jxself	Not RMS specifically. I mean, the idea and feedback to run their own is great but that decision's been made. What does one get from continuing to bring it up?
2021-06-13 09:28:57	@CrystalMath	jxself: i mean schestowitz recently reported getting a mail from RMS
2021-06-13 09:29:17	jxself	oaken-source: Yes - https://u.fsf.org/3em
2021-06-13 09:29:35	jxself	crystalmath: Well, multiple people have had viewpoints and said things on the matter. :)
2021-06-13 09:29:36	oaken-source	CrystalMath: do you think we could put that in the topic as well? I think it's relevant for the channe.
2021-06-13 09:30:08	@CrystalMath	oaken-source: well it may not stay up forever, as it's "news"
2021-06-13 09:30:17	@CrystalMath	whereas the irc-rules.en.html will stay up
2021-06-13 09:30:20	oaken-source	no, just for the transition period.
2021-06-13 09:30:21	jxself	It does seem relevant for now.
2021-06-13 09:30:24	←	hiya (quassel@unaffiliated/hiya) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2021-06-13 09:30:33	oaken-source	there's probably going to be a bunch of people coming here wondering what's up.
2021-06-13 09:30:39	jxself	The irc-rules page may also not remain up.
2021-06-13 09:30:44	@CrystalMath	it says the FSF has moved with a link to where
2021-06-13 09:31:13	→	}ls{ (~kalle@unaffiliated/ls/x-8089558) has joined #fsf
2021-06-13 09:31:17	@CrystalMath	jxself: surely there must be some link to a page describing the official IRC
2021-06-13 09:31:55	@CrystalMath	as for the newspost, i'm worried about it being considered spam
2021-06-13 09:31:58	oaken-source	I propose as topic: Unofficial IRC channel of the FSF | Chat about free software | Looking for the official channel? look here: https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html
2021-06-13 09:32:00	←	ErrantEgo (~ErrantEgo@unaffiliated/errantego) has left #fsf ("Leaving")
2021-06-13 09:32:00	@CrystalMath	also it won't last
2021-06-13 09:32:14	@CrystalMath	oaken-source: that looks good
2021-06-13 09:32:18	microfracture	I agree
2021-06-13 09:32:25	jxself	It may eventually need updating.
2021-06-13 09:32:32	jxself	Just FYI.
2021-06-13 09:32:45	oaken-source	could you give us a heads-up when that becomes necessary?
2021-06-13 09:32:53	oaken-source	I assume you will stay around?
2021-06-13 09:33:45	--	ChanServ has changed topic for #fsf from "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/" to "Unofficial IRC channel of the FSF | Chat about free software | Looking for the official channel? look here: https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html"
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2021-06-13 09:35:00	oaken-source	I'd open the question whether we should link to https://u.fsf.org/3em over a transitional period to the community.
2021-06-13 09:35:20	@CrystalMath	well the unofficial community here isn't moving
2021-06-13 09:35:29	@CrystalMath	only the official channel has
2021-06-13 09:35:30	oaken-source	that is true.
2021-06-13 09:36:03	oaken-source	but people may still wonder why the change happened
2021-06-13 09:36:13	jxself	It may help address questions about why this is suddenly unofficial after the announcement indicating that it still would be for 12 more days. For those that do not visit often.
2021-06-13 09:36:14	oaken-source	but I guess if it becomes a FAQ, we can update the topic.
2021-06-13 09:36:40	←	Foxy (znc@freenode/staff/foxy) has left #fsf ("Closing Window")
2021-06-13 09:36:55	oaken-source	jxself also has a valid point.
2021-06-13 09:37:14	oaken-source	CrystalMath: what do you say, should we add the link over the course of the 12 day transitional period?
2021-06-13 09:37:29	oaken-source	that sounds like a reasonable timeframe for it to stay up
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