2021-06-12 21:56:25 → gustaf (~gerikson@165.227.165.91) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 21:56:25 -- Topic for #fsf is "Free Software Foundation | The FSF and GNU are transitioning their official project channels to Libera.chat. Read more about the decision and our rationale: https://u.fsf.org/3em | Member forum: | Watch the LP2021 videos: | Ops: johnsu01 (FSF executive director), ggoes (FSF campaigns manager)" 2021-06-12 21:56:25 -- Topic set by ggoes (~gregf@fsf/staff/ggoes) on Fri, 11 Jun 2021 22:51:25 2021-06-12 21:56:26 -- Channel #fsf: 242 nicks (2 ops, 1 voice, 239 normals) 2021-06-12 21:56:26 -- URL for #fsf: https://www.fsf.org 2021-06-12 21:56:28 -- Channel created on Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:25:09 2021-06-12 21:57:29 Kasper there is a paradigm shift coming, where the distinction between "biological" and "nonliving" matter will dissolve. it is a "turn away from Vitalism". basically the psychopathic rich overlords want to treat people like literal dirt and implant them with technology that monitors and controls every facet of life 2021-06-12 21:58:00 Kasper I don't know if they'll succeed in this insane plan, but they are certainly trying 2021-06-12 21:59:34 epony you would understand.. such hostage and abusive relations between hardware and software, and free labour explotation and greedy market capitalisation and maximum profit extraction and complete remote control and surveillance and espionage.. is going to be frowned up from other economic regions, not only as pure evil, but also from a humanitarian and ecological stand points 2021-06-12 22:00:06 epony "up -> upon" 2021-06-12 22:01:14 → specing_ (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:01:23 epony the paradigm shift is not that, it's the "removal" of "sustainable and affordable" computing from your hands and placing it in centralised and dispersed points of control and processing (data centres) which serve the business needs, not yours 2021-06-12 22:01:54 epony you have already seen it, it happened 20 years ago with the 64bit machines and is in deep progress 2021-06-12 22:03:13 epony you sponsored it by buying extremely overpriced hardware that includes pricing for a couple of servers for each of you there, installed outside of your control and understanding, for 'your services' to which you're granted partial access for the purpose of exploiting you for subscriptions and monthly fees 2021-06-12 22:03:40 → GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:03:48 Kasper yes going from owning things -> leasing things as a service is a big push now 2021-06-12 22:03:55 ← GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2021-06-12 22:04:08 ← specing (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2021-06-12 22:04:08 -- specing_ is now known as specing 2021-06-12 22:04:12 epony and by replacing your software with ones that is "dependent" on those services, you fall into that insolvency and dependency, copletely 2021-06-12 22:04:58 epony so you're now targets of cancellation from access to those resources for which you paid but you did not receive or own 2021-06-12 22:05:09 epony if you do not behave in a controlled manner 2021-06-12 22:05:13 epony you're excluded 2021-06-12 22:05:27 epony and they call it "liberties" and "democracy" 2021-06-12 22:05:54 epony while we call it being "owned" and being "controlled" 2021-06-12 22:07:13 epony to which you can not even object, since it is unamerican to do so and you'll be jobless and defunded and hit with whatever you can get including accidental death 2021-06-12 22:07:47 epony (not deauth, but plain deresolution) 2021-06-12 22:08:28 epony remember, you're already jobless working as free labour for the big brother corporate warmerica 2021-06-12 22:09:15 epony at least, get some public sector thing going on.. so you have human dignities and necessities covered ;-) 2021-06-12 22:12:17 epony to the question "Who is more powerful, the one who has the hardware or the one who has the software?" the answer is "The ones that have the government approved mega-finances and the military bonded contracts with remote offshore slavery production facilities". 2021-06-12 22:14:44 epony you have a temporary possession of a piece of hardware+firmware+software bundled tightly that is not suitable for long term use or production use, just for consumer applications which you have to buy again separately and pay for subscriptions, so you can not have enough time to use it and develop sustainable computing with that, and it changes year over year 2021-06-12 22:15:30 epony it's not "capitalism won" it's a "system set for failure and abuse of freedoms and human rights" 2021-06-12 22:17:26 epony and that's why, cyberpunk is popular, it's a depiction of the unfair and dystopian present realities 2021-06-12 22:18:13 White_Flame Kasper: which is kinda funny, as owning things is the basis of capitalism. 2021-06-12 22:18:14 epony and why people are getting mad and crowd protesting at unfair society and economic distribution of wealth and labour 2021-06-12 22:18:46 epony so there is class struggle, but it is suppressed, and dismantled 2021-06-12 22:19:19 Kasper I don't think it's funny, really, some of those "things" are intangible, like your private data 2021-06-12 22:19:33 epony via division, segregation, caste and clan and tribal conflict, and primitive criminal warfare between small micro-communities (the imperial system gives you that) 2021-06-12 22:19:38 Kasper I'm sure nobody wants to give that up to whoever wants it 2021-06-12 22:19:58 White_Flame not funny ha-hah, but funny odd/ironic 2021-06-12 22:20:05 ← kompowiec2 (~kompowiec@89-64-44-140.dynamic.chello.pl) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2021-06-12 22:20:06 Kasper ah, sorry, text :P 2021-06-12 22:20:31 White_Flame lots of people are more than willing to accept conveniences while knowingly giving up privacy 2021-06-12 22:20:58 White_Flame and freedoms, and ownership, and autonomy, etc 2021-06-12 22:21:10 → vaio (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/vaio) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:21:34 epony it's only funny if you believe you're not affected and sustaining damages from these settings of the socio-political and economic sub-systems 2021-06-12 22:21:35 White_Flame the quality of life is good enough that people discount problems, and don't distrust deferences of their own lives 2021-06-12 22:21:59 → schneider (~schneider@irc2.xtort.eu) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:22:19 ← schneider (~schneider@irc2.xtort.eu) has left #fsf ("WeeChat 2.3") 2021-06-12 22:22:31 White_Flame in other words, society has progressed to the point where people are now non-independent sitting ducks for subersive (and sometimes even overt) exploitation 2021-06-12 22:22:38 epony which is why when someone says "I'm realist" we know they said "optmist beyond repair, but I have diseases and sufferings too" 2021-06-12 22:25:50 epony exploitation has been the system, before the industrial "evolution", exploitation remained after the various stages of the "evolution" of industry and technology, because the system is created to be exploitive and completely unfair and undemocratic from the start, from the primary principles and directives and there have been so many layers of false shrouds over that, which nobody wants to cut without bursting into rivers of tears, that pandora's box looks 2021-06-12 22:25:50 epony naive and childish in contrast 2021-06-12 22:26:36 epony yet it's trivial to fix 2021-06-12 22:26:43 epony if anyone actually wanted that 2021-06-12 22:27:37 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-12 22:28:01 → mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:28:28 → chippy (~chippy@unaffiliated/chippy) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:29:33 epony you the individual gladly pay the price of complacency and disinterest, so that it continues to operate exactly as it is, while other countries have their economies "screaming" and "spiralling" into unsustainable populations and you think you're immune to dramatic regional and local problems, apart from occasional natural disasters, pandemics and a semi-military regime 2021-06-12 22:31:03 vaio hey, stupid quesstion, and i don't mean any offense. But why are you allowed to keep that libera thing in your topic, while other projects got closed for the exact same reason ? 2021-06-12 22:31:47 epony it was a brief period that happened, and has been reconsidered 2021-06-12 22:32:33 epony it's not projects, it's third party hosted channels on IRC 2021-06-12 22:32:56 ← w-oertl (~wolfgang@cm56-194-159.liwest.at) has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2021-06-12 22:33:24 oxek vaio: because it's fine. This channel does not prevent people from discussion, nor spams people using bots, nor does anything else that would breach any freenode policies. 2021-06-12 22:34:02 vaio oh, i see. thanks answering 2021-06-12 22:43:58 ← waltercool (waltercool@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/waltercool) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-12 22:47:39 → seanrobert (~seanrober@user-24-214-157-209.knology.net) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:53:57 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-12 22:55:53 → mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 22:58:11 ← TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@unaffiliated/thecreeper) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2021-06-12 22:59:31 → TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@unaffiliated/thecreeper) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 23:02:22 → pr0xy (~jsyys@unaffiliated/pr0xy) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 23:03:27 ← pr0xy (~jsyys@unaffiliated/pr0xy) has left #fsf 2021-06-12 23:05:36 ← panosalevr (~panosalev@fsf/intern/panosalevro) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-12 23:12:01 ← not_uplime (~uplime@76.210.187.191) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2021-06-12 23:26:56 ← cb400f (~cb400f@opensuse/member/Cb400f) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2021-06-12 23:34:11 ← immibis (~immibis@62.156.144.218) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-12 23:53:03 -- blakewoo is now known as blakewo 2021-06-12 23:57:11 → audemenon (audemenon@gateway/bnc/audemenon) has joined #fsf 2021-06-12 23:58:45 ← eth01 (sid271749@freenode/staff/fosshost.founder.eth01) has quit (Changing host) 2021-06-12 23:58:45 → eth01 (sid271749@freenode/staff/eth01) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 00:15:57 ← azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-13 00:16:28 → azizLIGHT (~azizLIGHT@unaffiliated/azizlight) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 00:23:17 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 00:33:59 ← chippy (~chippy@unaffiliated/chippy) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-13 00:35:20 → mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 00:38:51 → welldonehowever (welldoneho@gateway/shell/ircnow/x-tefshhvbcepbwkxi) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 00:40:00 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 00:42:51 → mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 00:48:55 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2021-06-13 01:22:23 ← seanrobert (~seanrober@user-24-214-157-209.knology.net) has quit (Quit: Leaving) 2021-06-13 01:26:51 → mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 01:36:25 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@rrcs-66-57-82-202.midsouth.biz.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2021-06-13 01:52:38 CalimeroTeknik oxek, then again other channels that by all accounts seemed to match these criteria in the same way have been closed 2021-06-13 01:53:27 oxek CalimeroTeknik: there was a bug in the bot on the first day, but all those closures were reverted upon sending one email to support@freenode.net 2021-06-13 01:54:10 CalimeroTeknik sure, I'm not talking about may 26 2021-06-13 01:55:15 oxek afaik no other inexplicable closures happened since then 2021-06-13 01:55:38 CalimeroTeknik I'm still trying to piece elements together concerning #python 2021-06-13 02:01:21 oxek CalimeroTeknik: why would that even matter? The channel is elsewhere and doing fine. 2021-06-13 02:07:13 CalimeroTeknik it seems to me that this applies to the current channel as well 2021-06-13 02:12:07 oxek it probably does 2021-06-13 02:12:33 CrystalMath CalimeroTeknik: channels are required to remain open, but there's no ban on certain topics 2021-06-13 02:12:58 CalimeroTeknik ah, so #python was muted then? 2021-06-13 02:13:28 CrystalMath i think so 2021-06-13 02:13:31 CrystalMath they also had some bot 2021-06-13 02:13:36 CrystalMath bother people 2021-06-13 02:13:40 CrystalMath that's not allowed 2021-06-13 02:13:43 oxek #python was all sorts of things, but it definitely had moved by that time 2021-06-13 02:13:49 oxek so who even cares 2021-06-13 02:14:00 ← }ls{ (~kalle@unaffiliated/ls/x-8089558) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 02:14:01 CrystalMath i'm glad it got closed down 2021-06-13 02:14:20 CalimeroTeknik CrystalMath, at least one of the informations you gave contradicts mine, and serves your ideological position 2021-06-13 02:15:05 CalimeroTeknik but besides this, isn't the current channel breaching freenode policy as was mentioned in the topic of #freenode earlier? 2021-06-13 02:15:36 ← wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 02:16:23 CalimeroTeknik "Remember, we do not support spamming or advertising other networks in channels topics or in other forms." to be specific 2021-06-13 02:16:56 oxek does that even matter? This channel exists on another network already. 2021-06-13 02:18:31 CrystalMath CalimeroTeknik: what do you think is my ideological position? 2021-06-13 02:18:37 CalimeroTeknik oxek, I fail to see a relation between what I said and your response 2021-06-13 02:18:48 → }ls{ (~kalle@unaffiliated/ls/x-8089558) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 02:19:26 → seirl (~seirl@prologin/seirl) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 02:20:35 oxek "Freenode is FOSS, that's why FSF channel was closed down" would not be a good headline for freenode, so this channel is likely safe. 2021-06-13 02:20:50 CalimeroTeknik that's what I suspect, yes 2021-06-13 02:21:12 CalimeroTeknik special exemption 'because FSF' 2021-06-13 02:21:23 CrystalMath i mean i have channels that say "This channel is bridged to libera.chat" in the topic 2021-06-13 02:21:27 ← rbraun (vaF3IrtE@gateway/shell/club.cc.cmu.edu/x-mbgbjftlzntyfool) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 02:21:41 CrystalMath the channel is open and a relay bot works 2021-06-13 02:22:41 CrystalMath i certainly don't intend to point people to the other network, but quite the contrary 2021-06-13 02:22:47 CrystalMath to make it possible for people to stay here 2021-06-13 02:22:47 oxek /msg alis list * -topic libera 2021-06-13 02:22:50 oxek thousands of results 2021-06-13 02:23:08 oxek so clearly that's not the issue 2021-06-13 02:24:09 CalimeroTeknik that's technically non-sequitur, but it at least means that the mass culling from may 26ᵗʰ hasn't happened again 2021-06-13 02:24:27 CalimeroTeknik although, I think the expression was libera.chat, not libera 2021-06-13 02:25:43 ← vaio (~user@gateway/tor-sasl/vaio) has quit (Killed (surface (Abuse))) 2021-06-13 02:31:20 → mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 02:34:05 ← yano (~yano@unaffiliated/yano) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 02:34:12 ← TheCreeper (~TheCreepe@unaffiliated/thecreeper) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2021-06-13 02:35:39 -- DasBrain_ is now known as DasBrain 2021-06-13 02:38:57 ← hl (~hl@unaffiliated/hl) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 02:42:17 ← random-nick (~random-ni@unaffiliated/random-nick) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2021-06-13 02:42:54 audemenon #Python Was Not Muted 2021-06-13 02:43:14 audemenon Questions Were Being Answered 2021-06-13 02:43:27 → hl (~hl@unaffiliated/hl) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 02:44:21 ← hl (~hl@unaffiliated/hl) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 03:01:02 ← bamdad (~bamdad@gateway/tor-sasl/bamdad) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2021-06-13 03:08:25 → wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 03:21:37 ← wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 03:36:07 → panosalevr (~panosalev@fsf/intern/panosalevro) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 03:49:32 ← }ls{ (~kalle@unaffiliated/ls/x-8089558) has quit (Quit: real life interrupt) 2021-06-13 04:12:50 ← LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl) has left #fsf ("Leaving") 2021-06-13 04:19:21 → ahungry (~user@99-40-9-245.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 04:21:33 ← ArRay_ (~ArRay_@gateway/tor-sasl/array/x-42000387) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 04:24:33 → ArRay_ (~ArRay_@gateway/tor-sasl/array/x-42000387) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 04:29:35 ← anton (~anton@antonmcclure.com) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2021-06-13 04:38:12 → v8 (~MurdochW@freenode/staff/v8) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 04:49:53 → Emulatorman_ (~andre@unaffiliated/emulatorman) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 04:51:05 ← strugee (~strugee@strugee.net) has left #fsf ("The Lounge - https://thelounge.chat") 2021-06-13 04:53:07 ← Emulatorman (~andre@unaffiliated/emulatorman) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-13 04:55:06 → wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 05:11:27 → monkwitdafunk (uid238811@fsf/member/monkwitdafunk) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 05:51:22 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-13 05:54:00 → anton (~anton@antonmcclure.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:02:16 ← mammothrept (mammothrep@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-bilxxuqcilpmwfiw) has left #fsf 2021-06-13 06:02:42 ← blakewo (~blakewoo@gateway/tor-sasl/blakewo) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2021-06-13 06:02:57 → blakewoo (~blakewoo@gateway/tor-sasl/blakewo) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:04:17 ← harish (~harish@27.125.135.173) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 06:04:23 → TheRedHorseman (~bagira@freenode/staff/phanes) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:14:19 ← A_D (A_D@unaffiliated/ad) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 06:16:33 → azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:18:18 → activelow (~aggi@gateway/tor-sasl/aggi) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:20:54 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-13 06:24:48 ← anton (~anton@antonmcclure.com) has quit (Quit: anton) 2021-06-13 06:26:58 → tjm (ninex@safest.space) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:28:38 → cyndaquil (~job@45.58.46.81) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:30:01 ← cyndaquil (~job@45.58.46.81) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 06:32:15 → himcesjf (uid409730@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-maefmebcrjsyytve) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:34:35 → kompowiec2 (~kompowiec@89-64-44-140.dynamic.chello.pl) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:35:58 ← tjm (ninex@safest.space) has left #fsf ("quit") 2021-06-13 06:43:07 → Foxy (znc@freenode/staff/foxy) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:43:46 → job (job@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-dhtjyelnzoocvubg) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:44:04 → root (root@internet.relay.chat) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:44:19 → azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:44:20 job oh no 2021-06-13 06:44:26 root sudo su 2021-06-13 06:44:35 TheRedHorseman o/ 2021-06-13 06:44:37 ← fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2021-06-13 06:44:50 Foxy \o 2021-06-13 06:45:02 * TheRedHorseman trots around in a circle, eyes gleaming red in the dark 2021-06-13 06:45:16 → altwulf (~altwulf@64.227.64.196) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:45:46 ← wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2021-06-13 06:45:53 → wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:45:57 -- Mode #fsf [-o ggoes] by OperServ 2021-06-13 06:46:50 ggoes never a dull moment 2021-06-13 06:46:56 bandali ^ 2021-06-13 06:47:17 → dbo (someone@freenode/staff/mplscorwin) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:47:19 job ggoes: guess we have to accelerate the transition now :) 2021-06-13 06:47:20 → fling (~fling@fsf/member/fling) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:47:25 dbo why? 2021-06-13 06:47:49 v8 who? 2021-06-13 06:47:51 root what? 2021-06-13 06:47:57 Foxy where 2021-06-13 06:48:03 TheRedHorseman WHEN 2021-06-13 06:48:03 Foxy where? 2021-06-13 06:48:20 TheRedHorseman NO MORE SMEAR CAMPAIGNS 2021-06-13 06:48:28 TheRedHorseman YOU OWE IT TO THE COMMUNITIES YOU SERVE 2021-06-13 06:48:41 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 06:48:45 dbo each org is entitied to their view, and to communite their view 2021-06-13 06:48:59 v8 dbo: Nobody's taking that away 2021-06-13 06:49:30 ← job (job@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-dhtjyelnzoocvubg) has quit (Quit: I only serve the free software community. And the community has decided that freenode is hostile to the mission of software freedom.) 2021-06-13 06:49:45 dbo ok, cool. my sense was that attempts to paint mentioning a change of venue (even if one hates that change) as other than critical organizing business aren't in good faith 2021-06-13 06:49:57 dbo sorry if I flew off the handle, here 2021-06-13 06:50:19 v8 There's always more to things than one may think 2021-06-13 06:50:44 dbo there's always more to think about, but that drives complation more than decisive action. 2021-06-13 06:51:24 v8 The belief in open innovations, Creating, exploring, and community building within FOSS is a great thing. That's all I think about 2021-06-13 06:51:27 v8 Appreciate the talk. 2021-06-13 06:51:37 dbo it me <3 2021-06-13 06:52:19 dbo wait 2021-06-13 06:52:29 dbo did I get here *after* something happened? 2021-06-13 06:52:35 dbo what was that something? 2021-06-13 06:53:50 jxself This channel is now under the control of Freenode, not the FSF. 2021-06-13 06:53:51 jxself We'd like to have had a transitional period as mentioned in the announcement prior to loss of the channel, which Andrew Lee had indicated in the community meeting that he supported. 2021-06-13 06:54:22 → stonecold (ac3a632c@172.58.99.44) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:55:36 ← wolftune (~aaron@75.164.131.0) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 06:57:47 -- ChanServ has changed topic for #fsf from "Free Software Foundation | The FSF and GNU are transitioning their official project channels to Libera.chat. Read more about the decision and our rationale: https://u.fsf.org/3em | Member forum: | Watch the LP2021 videos: | Ops: johnsu01 (FSF executive director), ggoes (FSF campaigns manager)" to "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/" 2021-06-13 06:58:40 → dragestil (~quassel@fsf/member/dragestil) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 06:58:57 ggoes hmm 2021-06-13 06:59:19 danielp3344 :C 2021-06-13 07:02:38 stonecold RIP 2021-06-13 07:02:39 bandali lol at least link an article that contains a link to the actual official announcement by the fsf 2021-06-13 07:03:50 -- ChanServ has changed topic for #fsf from "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/" to "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/" 2021-06-13 07:04:15 ggoes that addition seems somewhat random 2021-06-13 07:04:21 root Putting spam in the topic is not permitted. 2021-06-13 07:04:30 bandali define spam 2021-06-13 07:05:23 bandali so now the official announcement by the fsf is spam? 2021-06-13 07:05:51 root The official announcement from "FSF" is on their website. 2021-06-13 07:05:58 → ErrantEgo (~ErrantEgo@unaffiliated/errantego) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:06:02 dragestil techrights is spam 2021-06-13 07:06:05 bandali so what's spam? 2021-06-13 07:06:09 bandali techrights is spam? then delete it 2021-06-13 07:06:12 root #fsf is an IRC channel on the freenode IRC network where use is a privilege not a right. 2021-06-13 07:06:18 CrystalMath techrights is not spam 2021-06-13 07:06:23 EasyAsPie hi? 2021-06-13 07:06:23 bandali what the fuck does that mean? 2021-06-13 07:06:25 root Code of Conduct is outlined on the freenode policy page. It's QUITE lengthy! 2021-06-13 07:06:32 root Let me share 2021-06-13 07:06:37 ggoes while we're making announcements https://nitter.fdn.fr/fsf/status/1403941542532952067#m | https://hostux.social/@fsf/106401675608265204 2021-06-13 07:06:45 root No spamming or scamming 2021-06-13 07:06:47 root No flooding 2021-06-13 07:06:49 root No promotion of violence 2021-06-13 07:06:51 root No illegal pornographic material 2021-06-13 07:06:53 root freenode staff may disconnect clients for any reason 2021-06-13 07:06:55 root Citizens of EU countries and the United Kingdom must be at least 16 years old to sign up. 2021-06-13 07:06:57 root We reserve the right to update these Terms of Service later. 2021-06-13 07:07:01 bandali thank you ggoes 2021-06-13 07:07:15 bandali lol no flooding, then proceeds to flood the channel. nice 2021-06-13 07:07:41 → GK-Deacon (~blowme@69-63-34-56.cable.execulink.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:08:28 → Time-Warp (Time-Warp@mirbsd/fan/time-warp) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:08:32 root define flood 2021-06-13 07:09:03 GK-Deacon what happens when you take a number 2? 2021-06-13 07:09:08 GK-Deacon and it gets stuc 2021-06-13 07:09:21 GK-Deacon do i win a prize? 2021-06-13 07:10:41 dragestil I'm dropping my nick now, bye everyone 2021-06-13 07:11:25 GK-Deacon bye 2021-06-13 07:11:32 stonecold root: is this your second or third line of cocaine buddy? 2021-06-13 07:11:48 ← dragestil (~quassel@fsf/member/dragestil) has left #fsf ("https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") 2021-06-13 07:11:50 ← ahungry (~user@99-40-9-245.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2021-06-13 07:12:25 ← stonecold (ac3a632c@172.58.99.44) has quit (Disconnected by services) 2021-06-13 07:12:45 → azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:13:45 → test333 (test333@kvm6.telegraphics.com.au) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:14:51 ← bandali (~bandali@fsf/emeritus/bandali) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 07:17:07 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2021-06-13 07:26:59 ← monkwitdafunk (uid238811@fsf/member/monkwitdafunk) has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2021-06-13 07:40:04 White_Flame re the "bug" in the channel takeover script that exacerbated all of this, the changed /topic in affected channels only mentioned that the channel topic was against freenode policy, and didn't mention locking/spamming/etc the channel at all 2021-06-13 07:40:50 → azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:41:20 EasyAsPie hi 2021-06-13 07:41:22 EasyAsPie az 2021-06-13 07:42:41 oaken-source if there ever was an action that defines the term 'nail in the coffin', then it was this channel takeover situation and the communication immediately afterwards. 2021-06-13 07:43:06 test333 what is happening? 2021-06-13 07:43:16 oaken-source not 'is', 'was' :) 2021-06-13 07:43:54 test333 this is confusing 2021-06-13 07:44:05 ggoes yeah 2021-06-13 07:44:08 oaken-source don't worry. 2021-06-13 07:44:18 oaken-source I don't think any of this is relevant anymore 2021-06-13 07:44:54 → john12335 (~john@irc.43-1.org) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:45:19 test333 just read the link in the topic 2021-06-13 07:45:27 oaken-source luckily, whether through incompetence or malice, the freenode crisis was blessedly short. 2021-06-13 07:45:42 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2021-06-13 07:46:47 EasyAsPie hi oaken 2021-06-13 07:46:48 EasyAsPie how r u 2021-06-13 07:46:53 oaken-source I'm good 2021-06-13 07:47:21 EasyAsPie good 2021-06-13 07:47:21 oaken-source I just upgraded my riscv build of system, which took me a day of stressful typing, but now I'm good again 2021-06-13 07:47:23 EasyAsPie nice to meet u 2021-06-13 07:47:27 oaken-source *systemd 2021-06-13 07:50:07 EasyAsPie ? 2021-06-13 07:51:46 john12335 So, who has control over this channel now? 2021-06-13 07:51:47 oaken-source I'm working on porting a distribution to a new CPU architecture. 2021-06-13 07:51:55 oaken-source it's fun, but can be stressful. 2021-06-13 07:51:57 ggoes freenode 2021-06-13 07:52:30 epony oaken-source, it was sealed before that with the decision to move out being placed in the topic rather than in the channel join chanserv notice / channel url 2021-06-13 07:52:35 john12335 And the first thing they do is putting some strange, strange, techrights crap into the topic? 2021-06-13 07:53:01 ggoes i respectfully request to get the techrights link taken out of the topic; it's confusing to people who joined before the hullabaloo, and anyone even remotely familiar with the workload of the fsf tech team would realize why we can't host our own irc server 2021-06-13 07:53:06 epony and people you do not know in the lead, who abandon the post immediately 2021-06-13 07:53:22 ggoes *joined after 2021-06-13 07:53:25 ggoes getting tired here 2021-06-13 07:53:39 john12335 ggoes: Can imagine :-( 2021-06-13 07:53:53 john12335 ggoes: Well, well. See you on the other side. 2021-06-13 07:54:35 john12335 ggoes: It is in particular funny that root's account is registered for about 1d. 2021-06-13 07:54:57 ggoes i thought it was funny root is connecting from evil corp; reminds me i need to finish mr. robot 2021-06-13 07:55:00 oaken-source also, root is connected via evilcorp.freenode.net, which is especially ironic 2021-06-13 07:55:21 epony that's just a rdns record 2021-06-13 07:55:55 oaken-source https://netsplit.de/servers/details.php?host=evilcorp.freenode.net 2021-06-13 07:56:10 epony that server is in a relatively good place on the internet (OVH, CA) 2021-06-13 07:56:22 oaken-source wait, so they actually took over #fsf and posted garbage in the topic? 2021-06-13 07:56:25 oaken-source I only just realized 2021-06-13 07:56:41 john12335 That's professional. 2021-06-13 07:56:59 CrystalMath john12335: root is the owner of freenode, but it's a new nickname 2021-06-13 07:57:10 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has quit (Excess Flood) 2021-06-13 07:57:30 oaken-source what the actual fuck. 2021-06-13 07:57:33 john12335 CrystalMath: rasengan --> root ? 2021-06-13 07:57:42 oaken-source I thougt they couldn't go lower, but apparently I was wrong 2021-06-13 07:57:50 CrystalMath john12335: correct 2021-06-13 07:57:58 epony well, nothing has changed for the channel objectively for the moment 2021-06-13 07:58:08 → mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 07:58:08 epony except a topic change and access list replace 2021-06-13 07:58:13 oaken-source well, the topic has changed. 2021-06-13 07:58:27 epony well, that does not interfere with communication 2021-06-13 07:58:35 oaken-source and the topic makes it out as such the link has been placed there by FSF staff, and not a malicious third party 2021-06-13 07:58:44 epony we can always consult with each other and similar 2021-06-13 07:59:27 epony the official lists of FSF channels is on a FSF domain though 2021-06-13 07:59:41 john12335 So? 2021-06-13 07:59:47 oaken-source oh blessed kindness of the malicious third party, to leave that link in place. 2021-06-13 07:59:51 john12335 epony: I can also converse with you about whatever on the street. 2021-06-13 08:00:05 epony john12335, no because I will not respond to that ;-) 2021-06-13 08:00:35 CrystalMath ggoes: RMS will be getting another email from schestowitz soon, asking for GNU to self-host IRC 2021-06-13 08:00:37 oaken-source root: get back here and explain yourself. 2021-06-13 08:00:37 john12335 yeah whatever. 2021-06-13 08:00:48 CrystalMath ggoes: he wrote about this publicly, that's why i'm saying it 2021-06-13 08:00:55 ggoes CrystalMath: i'm aware 2021-06-13 08:00:58 altwulf epony: #fsf and #gnu have had their acclists extirpated. The channels now belong exclusively to FN staff. 2021-06-13 08:01:05 ggoes CrystalMath: i just got an email from rms saying we made the right decision; funny how that works 2021-06-13 08:01:16 epony I told you about self-hosting ;-) on the meeting with the voting.. 2021-06-13 08:02:11 activelow i am confused still: since 2015 already Mr. Lee of Korean Telecom was placed as head of ITU-T similar to the majesty of freenode in charge (whatever the relevance of either) 2021-06-13 08:02:15 john12335 Well, you might technically "own" the channels, you don't own the users, ne c'est pas? 2021-06-13 08:02:32 john12335 * n'est-ce pas 2021-06-13 08:02:43 * john12335 should refresh their french. 2021-06-13 08:02:48 epony of course, users visit the project homepage, consult with that, and follow that note 2021-06-13 08:02:53 activelow so Mr. Lee now "owns" ITU-T and "Freenode is FOSS" 2021-06-13 08:02:59 ggoes freenode is irc 2021-06-13 08:03:07 activelow what do you expect to accomplish with this child's play 2021-06-13 08:03:08 activelow ? 2021-06-13 08:03:11 epony but nothing prevents independent third party communities to form elsewhere 2021-06-13 08:03:12 ← Time-Warp (Time-Warp@mirbsd/fan/time-warp) has quit (Quit: We Are Legion) 2021-06-13 08:03:49 epony it just won't be official, it will be "themed" about the project and related discussions 2021-06-13 08:04:16 epony in that regard, it is not official on other IRC networks too, unless it is managed by the project 2021-06-13 08:04:40 jxself There used to be # and ## to make that distinction between official and not. 2021-06-13 08:05:06 epony right, but that is a worse option from previous channel events 2021-06-13 08:05:43 epony since it breaks the setup in clients and users don't follow completely or get confused etc 2021-06-13 08:06:32 oaken-source this mess makes me unreasonably angry. I'm going to go for a walk. 2021-06-13 08:06:36 jxself That was part of the reasoning behind arranging the forwarding to # to ## so that it would happen automatically without people having to change their client. 2021-06-13 08:07:08 john12335 I 'own' #fsf and #gnu on my own private ircd. 2021-06-13 08:08:06 epony better not shuffle people to ## and later back to #, that will cause disruption to clients as a net effect 2021-06-13 08:09:16 ← lumidify (~lumidify@unaffiliated/lumidify) has left #fsf 2021-06-13 08:09:18 john12335 I am frankly bewildered how freenode staff is talking in #freenode 2021-06-13 08:10:00 → azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:10:33 ErrantEgo yeah, the professionalism went right out the window 2021-06-13 08:13:54 epony 20 years ago.. 2021-06-13 08:14:16 oaken-source what did I miss in #freenode? 2021-06-13 08:14:25 activelow Telecom was sold long ago, long before this nonsense recently 2021-06-13 08:14:26 oaken-source I forgot I ragequit that channel a few days ago 2021-06-13 08:14:31 activelow "privatized" 2021-06-13 08:14:37 → waltercool (waltercool@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/waltercool) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:14:44 activelow i won't shed tears about any of this 2021-06-13 08:14:48 activelow anymore 2021-06-13 08:15:35 oaken-source ggoes: have you asked in #freenode to have the /topic line changed? 2021-06-13 08:15:54 ggoes i'd rather not be k-lined tonight 2021-06-13 08:16:02 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2021-06-13 08:16:03 epony ;-) 2021-06-13 08:16:07 CrystalMath ggoes: techrights really isn't bad 2021-06-13 08:16:43 ggoes CrystalMath: no, they aren't. i read every post. but having any third-party post in the topic is very weird for an "official" channel 2021-06-13 08:16:44 ggoes and confusing 2021-06-13 08:17:01 epony it's not official any more.. 2021-06-13 08:17:32 oaken-source that's a very lame excuse. 2021-06-13 08:18:56 CrystalMath ggoes: it says the FSF has moved and this is now something else 2021-06-13 08:19:07 CrystalMath it's a chat about free software 2021-06-13 08:19:51 ← Ekis (~Ekis@cpe74da881c916d-cm30b7d4bb2eb0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2021-06-13 08:20:27 oaken-source I'm wondering if speaking up in #freenode would give me closure or make me ever more mad 2021-06-13 08:20:51 ggoes i recommend sleep, chamomile tea, and/or meditation rather than that 2021-06-13 08:21:00 epony stay here, enjoy our company 2021-06-13 08:21:03 oaken-source it's 8AM to 2021-06-13 08:21:09 oaken-source *tho 2021-06-13 08:21:13 ggoes oh, hmm 2021-06-13 08:21:21 ggoes don't want to start your day off on the wrong foot then 2021-06-13 08:21:22 oaken-source I literally woke up to this mess ^^ 2021-06-13 08:22:18 epony happens.. it was outlined to wind down like that with the movement decisions etc, just no need to invest personal frustration into decisions of other people 2021-06-13 08:22:33 ← altwulf (~altwulf@64.227.64.196) has left #fsf 2021-06-13 08:23:11 oaken-source if those decisions directly affect your daily communications, then that's a good reason to be frustrated. 2021-06-13 08:23:18 oaken-source it's sad to see a god network run to the ground like this. 2021-06-13 08:23:23 activelow when telecom was forced into "privatization" at least they had to provide "mobile number portability" (which was an insane technical chaos, still is) 2021-06-13 08:24:20 epony imagine the level of difficulty this was in the porting Unix to micro-computers epoch 2021-06-13 08:24:55 epony (predates IRC by 5+, more like ~10 years) 2021-06-13 08:25:34 epony there was no email back then even 2021-06-13 08:25:35 ggoes we still have some of the reel to reel gnu tapes from back in the day 2021-06-13 08:25:40 ggoes they're pretty neat 2021-06-13 08:25:44 epony yeah 2021-06-13 08:26:24 → AppleGNU (~textual@unaffiliated/applegnu) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:26:34 epony I don't have tapes, I have punch cards and floppies ;-) started immediately on micro-computers while running around DECs 2021-06-13 08:27:01 ← mindCrime (~prhodes@cpe-98-27-55-10.nc.res.rr.com) has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2021-06-13 08:27:01 epony (and drum HDD platters the size of a TV antenna) 2021-06-13 08:27:35 epony (and paper tape.. for comms and keys) 2021-06-13 08:31:37 epony the Kühlschrank computers were not "take it with you to your home and new lab" compatible (so a tape would not be portable, unless you have the same racks) 2021-06-13 08:32:19 epony but that's how it was carried around between research universities 2021-06-13 08:32:24 oaken-source lee is currently having himself celebrated as a trillionaire and king of irc in #freenode. 2021-06-13 08:33:11 ggoes he said agpl "isn't software freedom" :( 2021-06-13 08:33:26 audemenon He Is The Happiest Little Boy Sat Under The Christmas Tree Unwrapping His New Toy 2021-06-13 08:33:31 CrystalMath ggoes: that's just bickering between him and Ariadne 2021-06-13 08:33:37 AppleGNU oaken-source: I like the talk of cancelling cancel culture on the main website, but this does seem to have devolved into trolling. 2021-06-13 08:33:37 → hmmmmm (~nobody@c-71-62-227-79.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:33:57 CrystalMath ggoes: i wouldn't take stuff said there too seriously 2021-06-13 08:34:25 CrystalMath at least in a philosophical way 2021-06-13 08:35:06 epony the real policies are in the software republishers' hands 2021-06-13 08:35:32 epony (as per the software "intended" appliation notes, no more) 2021-06-13 08:35:32 CrystalMath ggoes: Ariadne actually wanted busybox rewritten under the MIT license 2021-06-13 08:35:59 epony you don't just rewrite to change a licence, you do it to re-implement it better 2021-06-13 08:36:14 CrystalMath ggoes: and she offered money for that 2021-06-13 08:36:17 epony (and most of the time it is not better) 2021-06-13 08:36:33 ggoes i don't want to gossip about anyone, i just found it telling 2021-06-13 08:37:11 AppleGNU It is not gossiping if it is out in the open. 2021-06-13 08:37:29 CrystalMath what i mean is, perhaps i didn't say it properly, but Ariadne isn't serious about the AGPL, she just wants to spite Andrew Lee 2021-06-13 08:37:40 CrystalMath that's all there is to it 2021-06-13 08:37:49 oaken-source I just realized what lee is -- he's a pirate. 2021-06-13 08:38:07 AppleGNU This is all amusing. I just don't know what the limit to that is. 2021-06-13 08:38:13 → niconiconi (~user@fsf/member/biergaizi) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:38:19 oaken-source he's commandeered the network, and is now keelhauling anyone who he fears could start a mutiny 2021-06-13 08:38:39 AppleGNU Is it true that this channel is no longer under FSF control? 2021-06-13 08:38:44 jxself It is true. 2021-06-13 08:38:46 epony that is not an adequate analogy though 2021-06-13 08:38:58 epony since at sea you can't shift vessels at your free will 2021-06-13 08:39:22 AppleGNU CrystalMath: How could you justify this channel being taken? Didn't Lee say he supported whichever decision was made? 2021-06-13 08:39:23 jxself The ones that are under FSF control are on the network that cannot be mentioned but the FSF website has the announcement. 2021-06-13 08:39:45 oaken-source AppleGNU: obviously, lee lied. 2021-06-13 08:39:48 oaken-source to nobides surprise 2021-06-13 08:39:53 oaken-source *nobodies 2021-06-13 08:39:54 CrystalMath AppleGNU: this channel does state that the FSF has left 2021-06-13 08:40:00 → azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:40:04 CrystalMath AppleGNU: there's no confusion created here 2021-06-13 08:40:13 AppleGNU CrystalMath: Still, why was it taken? 2021-06-13 08:40:15 john12335 lol 2021-06-13 08:40:31 epony why not? 2021-06-13 08:40:33 ggoes it doesn't say where we moved to, that's a little confusing 2021-06-13 08:40:36 CrystalMath AppleGNU: i suspect it was because of a certain network in the topic 2021-06-13 08:40:41 ggoes if their intentions are good, that shouldn't be a big deal, right? 2021-06-13 08:41:19 CrystalMath ggoes: if you do a /list and see a certain network's name in most channels on your IRC network, would you consider it spam? 2021-06-13 08:41:24 AppleGNU It's kind of deceitful. The # prefix would mean an official channel. 2021-06-13 08:41:29 oaken-source CrystalMath: stop being their little puppy. 2021-06-13 08:41:29 CrystalMath AppleGNU: not anymore! 2021-06-13 08:41:51 activelow IRC simply isn't as relevant as much time is devoted to it, or when will #fsf #gnu choose to implement something different than openssl ITU-T/ANSI standard ? 2021-06-13 08:41:52 epony the ## policy is old staff being untrue about # being official 2021-06-13 08:42:19 activelow i hadn't noticed any drama about VHDL software tooling unavailable (to my knowledge) either 2021-06-13 08:42:26 White_Flame but the old takeover bot did move things to ##, why not this one? 2021-06-13 08:42:28 AppleGNU And wtf was up with NickServ being left vulnerable? 2021-06-13 08:42:36 CrystalMath AppleGNU: it wasn't 2021-06-13 08:42:41 epony it's only relevant when you're hostaging free communities and the network is large and pretending to be "official" and "temp hosting / general talk unofficial" 2021-06-13 08:42:44 CrystalMath AppleGNU: a staff member was holding it 2021-06-13 08:43:04 CrystalMath AppleGNU: that's why changing passwords was optional - by connecting you pretty much trust staff anyway 2021-06-13 08:43:24 epony so, that ## thing was a bad decision from the previous team and other networks, as it is deceitful to users and creates the preconditions for the problems seen 2021-06-13 08:43:59 epony in fact, the previous staff was abusing "trust" that # was some-what official 2021-06-13 08:43:59 CrystalMath epony: it was Rob Levin's idea to split the namespace this way, we don't know why he chose it 2021-06-13 08:44:11 epony I know. 2021-06-13 08:44:14 → Nemo_bis (federico@wikimedia/Nemo-bis) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:44:17 White_Flame obviously it was the new staff that moved # to ## with the bot 2021-06-13 08:45:07 epony to create pressure points towards communities to ask and whine in front of projects on behalf of the IRC third party hosting to endorse it as an "official" IRC channel, which was then used to steer public opinion and communications 2021-06-13 08:45:25 epony and you see the result from that over the years of facebuckling springs 2021-06-13 08:45:33 CrystalMath well freenode still hosts official project channels 2021-06-13 08:45:46 epony IRC is just social talk ;-) 2021-06-13 08:46:03 epony real work happens on mailing lists 2021-06-13 08:46:08 CrystalMath i know projects that are officially on espernet 2021-06-13 08:46:23 CrystalMath so it doesn't take a # vs ## policy to have that 2021-06-13 08:46:23 ← john12335 (~john@irc.43-1.org) has left #fsf 2021-06-13 08:46:24 epony maybe, but they are putting their eggs in other people's baskets 2021-06-13 08:46:51 epony the chat service is valuable to communities 2021-06-13 08:46:57 ← azend (~quassel@unaffiliated/azend) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2021-06-13 08:47:12 epony projects and hosting service providers should be able to agree upon that delegation and management 2021-06-13 08:47:16 CrystalMath epony: eh, i always did development over IRC 2021-06-13 08:47:22 CrystalMath it's not bad 2021-06-13 08:47:50 epony I like IRC too, it's interactive and person to person engaging.. 2021-06-13 08:48:45 epony everyday people however forget, that it's exactly like the mailing lists in that the rooms are "public" and the off room talk "pseudo-private" talk 2021-06-13 08:49:17 ← Nemo_bis (federico@wikimedia/Nemo-bis) has left #fsf 2021-06-13 08:49:23 epony and it becomes difficult to manage/congested since it's not threaded in the rooms 2021-06-13 08:49:31 epony while email / forum space is 2021-06-13 08:49:31 ← KindOne (kindone@unaffiliated/kindone) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 08:49:54 epony and that is the decisive point for work getting done (actual issue tracking) 2021-06-13 08:50:19 ← niconiconi (~user@fsf/member/biergaizi) has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2021-06-13 08:50:19 ← activelow (~aggi@gateway/tor-sasl/aggi) has quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2021-06-13 08:50:36 → activelow (~aggi@gateway/tor-sasl/aggi) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:51:15 epony in the future of IRC, you'll click a message of someone and thread / fork it (reply to that) interactively 2021-06-13 08:51:46 CrystalMath not my future, no mouse 2021-06-13 08:51:54 epony :-) 2021-06-13 08:52:09 oaken-source epony: you are describing slack 2021-06-13 08:52:13 epony what shall we do.. with all that "automation" power 2021-06-13 08:52:19 CrystalMath epony: in my future i'll buy more cassette tapes 2021-06-13 08:52:31 epony you can fork your future, NOW! 2021-06-13 08:52:39 AppleGNU Be sure to get the metal cassette tapes. 2021-06-13 08:52:47 AppleGNU Those have the best audio quality. 2021-06-13 08:53:07 epony we call them HDDs now ;-) 2021-06-13 08:53:22 epony the metal tapes 2021-06-13 08:53:23 AppleGNU yikes... spinning media... 2021-06-13 08:53:33 epony like tape is folded? 2021-06-13 08:53:37 epony :-D 2021-06-13 08:54:07 AppleGNU I'll just enjoy the fact that I own no functioning computers with spinning disks. 2021-06-13 08:54:11 epony "muh rusty bits fell off, I am a mylarnial" 2021-06-13 08:54:17 → Whistler (uid479003@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhdwdyigookogglv) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 08:54:24 CrystalMath AppleGNU: i use floppy disks even 2021-06-13 08:54:28 CrystalMath and no SSDs ever 2021-06-13 08:54:35 epony SSDs are still immature 2021-06-13 08:54:41 oaken-source lol 2021-06-13 08:54:50 AppleGNU Makes sense as to why you are on the ReactOS project now, CrystalMath 2021-06-13 08:54:51 AppleGNU :-) 2021-06-13 08:55:13 ← Whistler (uid479003@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xhdwdyigookogglv) has left #fsf 2021-06-13 08:56:27 AppleGNU Who controls this rig now anyway? 2021-06-13 08:56:38 jxself Freenode. 2021-06-13 08:56:58 AppleGNU jxself: It's usually under a single op when that happens. 2021-06-13 08:57:09 CrystalMath AppleGNU: v8 i think 2021-06-13 08:57:26 epony /msg cs access #fsf list 2021-06-13 08:57:37 v8 Not me, sorry. If I have access I'll remove it 2021-06-13 08:57:40 epony or /cs if you have that in your client 2021-06-13 08:57:44 jxself Yes, the founder is listed as Andrew Lee. 2021-06-13 08:58:07 -- Mode #fsf [+o root] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 08:58:15 -- Mode #fsf [-o+v root root] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 08:58:19 -- Mode #fsf [-v root] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 08:58:21 v8 sorry 2021-06-13 08:58:25 v8 messing with access stuff 2021-06-13 08:58:53 activelow Mr. Lee of korean telecom is head of ITU-T too 2021-06-13 08:58:58 activelow what a "surprise" 2021-06-13 08:59:06 AppleGNU Now joking is happening in #freenode about lower amount of users means less RAM usage. 2021-06-13 08:59:16 oaken-source technically true 2021-06-13 08:59:27 epony let's not go into internationall committees overwatch just yet ;-) 2021-06-13 08:59:48 oaken-source v8: are there plans to eventually had over control of #fsf to a trusted community member? 2021-06-13 09:01:40 ← Guest52515 (silver@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-qkmxfabxbczsbrcp) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 09:01:40 ← xkcn (travankor@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-pidgsjdomtwhajqz) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 09:01:40 ← badast (badastrona@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-neyrqjnstuhmriwk) has quit (K-Lined) 2021-06-13 09:02:29 epony good question 2021-06-13 09:03:02 → silver (silver@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-kwjdwlgrlqrdatbw) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 09:03:04 epony it's an airdrop in #gnu (parachute) 2021-06-13 09:03:05 → badast (badastrona@gateway/shell/tilde.team/x-cigoiflawmshqjdb) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 09:03:09 v8 I believe so, that's what usually happens. There are volunteers now with freenode "Freenode Helpers" that will be helping with community things as well. I haven't been asked to decide on anything currently, but that's what I have to my knowledge. For something like this channel, it would be better if community members that have been here with the chat community get that access 2021-06-13 09:03:26 -- silver is now known as Guest8055 2021-06-13 09:03:31 oaken-source I would volunteer as a custodian for the time being. 2021-06-13 09:03:46 CrystalMath v8: i've been here for a long time (at least 2013) and i registred ##fsf as it was planned to redirect to there 2021-06-13 09:04:03 CrystalMath so i also volunteer to take care of the channel 2021-06-13 09:04:31 CrystalMath i believe in the FSF and in freenode :) 2021-06-13 09:04:37 oaken-source I'm critical of both. 2021-06-13 09:04:50 oaken-source but reasonably so. 2021-06-13 09:05:05 epony "there can be only one" 2021-06-13 09:05:38 oaken-source maybe we would make a good team, honestly 2021-06-13 09:05:45 CrystalMath oaken-source: yeah 2021-06-13 09:07:05 v8 so oaken-source and CrystalMath as operators? 2021-06-13 09:07:25 AppleGNU Sounds good to me 2021-06-13 09:07:48 epony since you wanted the topic to include a statement / URL of the official FSF domain space, let someone behind from there to remain in custory too (from FSF domain space listed people) 2021-06-13 09:08:35 CrystalMath epony: i would recommend jxself for that 2021-06-13 09:09:02 jxself I would be okay with that. 2021-06-13 09:09:05 epony https://www.fsf.org/about/staff-and-board 2021-06-13 09:09:18 CrystalMath epony: jxself is an entrusted GNU webmaster 2021-06-13 09:09:53 epony ok 2021-06-13 09:10:14 AppleGNU epony: https://www.gnu.org/people/webmeisters.html 2021-06-13 09:10:17 AppleGNU top name 2021-06-13 09:11:06 jxself Yes, Chief Webmaster. And from https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-structure.html - "The GNU Webmaster Group is led by the Chief Webmaster who reports to the Chief GNUisance" 2021-06-13 09:11:50 oaken-source I love that the FSF has a sense of humor from the 80s :) 2021-06-13 09:12:04 epony isantially 2021-06-13 09:12:07 jxself Also on the GNU Advisory Committee: https://www.gnu.org/contact/gnu-advisory 2021-06-13 09:15:07 → Meli (~meli@fsf/member/meli) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 09:16:25 -- Mode #fsf [+o CrystalMath] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 09:16:39 -- Mode #fsf [+o oaken-source] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 09:16:49 v8 not sure if I did that right, bouncing between tasks right now 2021-06-13 09:17:30 @CrystalMath looks correct 2021-06-13 09:17:53 AppleGNU All hail trustees CrystalMath, and oaken-source 2021-06-13 09:18:02 @oaken-source looks good, thanks 2021-06-13 09:19:37 -- Mode #fsf [-o oaken-source] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 09:19:43 -- Mode #fsf [+o oaken-source] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 09:20:00 -- Mode #fsf [-o oaken-source] by ChanServ 2021-06-13 09:22:18 oaken-source so, should we do somethig about the topic? 2021-06-13 09:22:49 oaken-source I'd probably argue we should leave the techrights link in, but make explicit that it's not an official FSF statement. 2021-06-13 09:22:53 oaken-source what do you think, CrystalMath ? 2021-06-13 09:24:39 microfracture I'd have it removed completely personally 2021-06-13 09:25:29 jxself Yes, it's just a call for the FSF to run their own IRC network it seems. That option was considered. My understanding is that there is no capacity with the tech team to bring on more things at this point. 2021-06-13 09:25:29 microfracture It adds no value and was not added by FSF staff / channel operators 2021-06-13 09:25:42 -- TheRedHorseman is now known as phanes 2021-06-13 09:25:55 fling what is going on 2021-06-13 09:25:59 oaken-source the thing is, the person who added it would simply add it back if we removed it. 2021-06-13 09:26:00 jxself So what is the point of continuing to call it out on the /topic? 2021-06-13 09:26:27 ← DasBrain (~DasBrain@unaffiliated/dasbrain) has left #fsf ("This is not the #fsf I have been looking for") 2021-06-13 09:26:36 jxself Is that known? It's not clear to me what Freenode staff will be doing on an ongoing basis. 2021-06-13 09:26:50 oaken-source yes. 2021-06-13 09:26:54 oaken-source no. 2021-06-13 09:27:00 oaken-source no to the first part, yes to the second 2021-06-13 09:27:22 oaken-source we'll have to keep rolling with the punches I guess :) 2021-06-13 09:28:00 → cb400f (~cb400f@opensuse/member/Cb400f) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 09:28:01 @CrystalMath jxself: schestowitz said that RMS declined that 2021-06-13 09:28:17 oaken-source jxself: can we get a shortlink for this: https://www.fsf.org/news/fsf-and-gnu-move-official-irc-channels-to-libera-chat-network 2021-06-13 09:28:32 @CrystalMath oaken-source: let's keep irc-rules.en.html, it has the proper link 2021-06-13 09:28:36 jxself Not RMS specifically. I mean, the idea and feedback to run their own is great but that decision's been made. What does one get from continuing to bring it up? 2021-06-13 09:28:57 @CrystalMath jxself: i mean schestowitz recently reported getting a mail from RMS 2021-06-13 09:29:17 jxself oaken-source: Yes - https://u.fsf.org/3em 2021-06-13 09:29:35 jxself crystalmath: Well, multiple people have had viewpoints and said things on the matter. :) 2021-06-13 09:29:36 oaken-source CrystalMath: do you think we could put that in the topic as well? I think it's relevant for the channe. 2021-06-13 09:30:08 @CrystalMath oaken-source: well it may not stay up forever, as it's "news" 2021-06-13 09:30:17 @CrystalMath whereas the irc-rules.en.html will stay up 2021-06-13 09:30:20 oaken-source no, just for the transition period. 2021-06-13 09:30:21 jxself It does seem relevant for now. 2021-06-13 09:30:24 ← hiya (quassel@unaffiliated/hiya) has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2021-06-13 09:30:33 oaken-source there's probably going to be a bunch of people coming here wondering what's up. 2021-06-13 09:30:39 jxself The irc-rules page may also not remain up. 2021-06-13 09:30:44 @CrystalMath it says the FSF has moved with a link to where 2021-06-13 09:31:13 → }ls{ (~kalle@unaffiliated/ls/x-8089558) has joined #fsf 2021-06-13 09:31:17 @CrystalMath jxself: surely there must be some link to a page describing the official IRC 2021-06-13 09:31:55 @CrystalMath as for the newspost, i'm worried about it being considered spam 2021-06-13 09:31:58 oaken-source I propose as topic: Unofficial IRC channel of the FSF | Chat about free software | Looking for the official channel? look here: https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html 2021-06-13 09:32:00 ← ErrantEgo (~ErrantEgo@unaffiliated/errantego) has left #fsf ("Leaving") 2021-06-13 09:32:00 @CrystalMath also it won't last 2021-06-13 09:32:14 @CrystalMath oaken-source: that looks good 2021-06-13 09:32:18 microfracture I agree 2021-06-13 09:32:25 jxself It may eventually need updating. 2021-06-13 09:32:32 jxself Just FYI. 2021-06-13 09:32:45 oaken-source could you give us a heads-up when that becomes necessary? 2021-06-13 09:32:53 oaken-source I assume you will stay around? 2021-06-13 09:33:45 -- ChanServ has changed topic for #fsf from "Chat about free software | Looking for the FSF? The FSF has moved - https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html - http://techrights.org/2021/06/12/fsf-irc-channels/" to "Unofficial IRC channel of the FSF | Chat about free software | Looking for the official channel? look here: https://www.gnu.org/server/irc-rules.en.html" 2021-06-13 09:34:00 ← AppleGNU (~textual@unaffiliated/applegnu) has quit (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2021-06-13 09:35:00 oaken-source I'd open the question whether we should link to https://u.fsf.org/3em over a transitional period to the community. 2021-06-13 09:35:20 @CrystalMath well the unofficial community here isn't moving 2021-06-13 09:35:29 @CrystalMath only the official channel has 2021-06-13 09:35:30 oaken-source that is true. 2021-06-13 09:36:03 oaken-source but people may still wonder why the change happened 2021-06-13 09:36:13 jxself It may help address questions about why this is suddenly unofficial after the announcement indicating that it still would be for 12 more days. For those that do not visit often. 2021-06-13 09:36:14 oaken-source but I guess if it becomes a FAQ, we can update the topic. 2021-06-13 09:36:40 ← Foxy (znc@freenode/staff/foxy) has left #fsf ("Closing Window") 2021-06-13 09:36:55 oaken-source jxself also has a valid point. 2021-06-13 09:37:14 oaken-source CrystalMath: what do you say, should we add the link over the course of the 12 day transitional period? 2021-06-13 09:37:29 oaken-source that sounds like a reasonable timeframe for it to stay up 2021-06-13 09:37:29 → hiya (quassel@unaffiliated/hiya) has joined #fsf