Gemini version available ♊︎

Quick Mention: Miguel de Icaza Loves .NET, Dislikes GNU GPL

Posted in Free/Libre Software, GPL, Microsoft, Mono, Novell, OpenDocument at 8:11 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Steve Ballmer scared of GPLv3

From the Novell VP who says the darnest things:

For a project of mine, this weekend I put together a command-line editing class for .NET shell applications.


It is licensed under the MIT X11 license and the Apache 2.0 license so there are no annoying licensing issues and can be mixed with anything out there.

That’s a suggestion that GPL has “annoying licensing issues.” And what's behind X11 anyway? Is this the former president (until recently) of the GNOME Foundation?

This comes a year after Miguel de Icaza’s ODF insult, to use Richard Stallman’s words:

Your insult is too vague to be checked, or refuted, but the reasons
why this question of standardization is important are very specific.
Governments around the world are interested in using an open standard
format. They have to decide whether to insist on a real open
standard, such as ODF, or accept a sham open standard, OOXML. If they
choose the former, they are likely to move somewhat to OpenOffice.
Otherwise they are likely to be stuck with Microsoft Office.

With ‘friends’ like these, need we have enemies?

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

Decor ᶃ Gemini Space

Below is a Web proxy. We recommend getting a Gemini client/browser.

Black/white/grey bullet button This post is also available in Gemini over at this address (requires a Gemini client/browser to open).

Decor ✐ Cross-references

Black/white/grey bullet button Pages that cross-reference this one, if any exist, are listed below or will be listed below over time.

Decor ▢ Respond and Discuss

Black/white/grey bullet button If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.


  1. TaQ said,

    August 28, 2008 at 8:17 am


    Hey, give him a chance, his boss (you know, that “Linux is a cancer” guy) told him to say that! :-)

  2. masbani said,

    August 28, 2008 at 10:48 am


    ye gods, are you stupid

  3. Victor Soliz said,

    August 28, 2008 at 7:01 pm


    masbani: I am noticing the quality of Novell’s supporters has been in free fall lately, as if you are tired of pretending you are more than zombie trolls….

  4. Victor Soliz said,

    August 28, 2008 at 7:03 pm


    It is licensed under the MIT X11 license and the Apache 2.0 license so there are no annoying licensing issues and can be mixed with anything out there.

    I remember the times where Novell friendlies would stand behind Icaza and say it is not true he FUDs the GPL, but this time, I doubt anyone can deny, such a brilliant piece of FUD Miguel, it seems he really wanted to learn more from MS.

  5. Jose_X said,

    August 29, 2008 at 10:44 pm


    These licenses (mit, etc) are used when the authors want the material to spread as much as possible as the top priority, eg, for building market/mind share for a protocol or standard, ie, for mono/dotregret.

    Btw, one of those that would be able to “borrow” such source code would be Microsoft. Makes sense that Miguel and others would not mind their work (but more importantly, the work of the many that might help out without costing them money) being used to help strengthen monopolies off which Miguel and friends stand to profit through their ms partnership payoffs (possibly to include stock options since $100 million in stock options (using the black-sholes model of pricing options) could easily translate into billions if msft goes up).

    See also http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/29/mono-applications-windows-vista/

  6. Roy Schestowitz said,

    August 30, 2008 at 3:09 am


    I didn’t add this to the text above (cited it instead and talked about it in IRC), but the licence is possibly designed to permit change of ‘de facto’ ownership or control. Microsoft cannot stand the GNU GPL and, in case it buys Novell, that matters.

  7. AlexH said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:06 am


    @Roy: totally false.

    All open source licenses are perpetual; when ownership changes, the new owner can change the license on the software but that doesn’t affect existing users.

    I’m not surprised that you don’t understand Miguel’s comment and think it FUD. Probably because you don’t know your history: when it was created, it was put under the GPL for “political” reasons, and was thus inaccessible to both proprietary apps but also non-GPL compatible open source apps (e.g., Apache-licensed apps) and also to those non-copylefted projects who didn’t want to be forced to release under the GPL (good example: http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2000-12/msg01038.php).

    This rubbed some people up the wrong way, not because it was GPL, but because of how overtly the point was made. It’s a historical argument well-known amongst the free software community.

    Miguel is referring to that debate. He may not prefer the GPL, I don’t know his personal view, but his comment is about which licenses you use where in the stack, not whether or not certain licenses are good or bad.

    I’ve stopped expecting you to correct your false stories, but maybe this will help inform you in the future.

  8. Roy Schestowitz said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:10 am


    All open source licenses are perpetual; when ownership changes, the new owner can change the license on the software but that doesn’t affect existing users.

    Yes, but miss not the point that the GPL ensures there is an obligation to /keep/ it open.

    Microsoft has already ‘closed-sourced’ some BSD code.

  9. AlexH said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:14 am


    The GPL doesn’t have any such obligation, sorry Roy.

    If you are the copyright owner, you can change the license to a closed license and make all your future releases under that.

    The GPL copyleft works only “against” non-copyright owners. No copyright license can restrict the activity of the rightful copyright owner.

  10. Roy Schestowitz said,

    August 30, 2008 at 4:32 am


    Okay, so you seem to be suggesting that if Microsoft buys Novell, then it can change Mono’s licence and close it regardless.

  11. Dan O'Brian said,

    August 30, 2008 at 6:06 am


    I hate to say it, but “Duh” at Roy’s last comment.

    Iff Microsoft were to buy Novell, everything that Novell has copyright ownership of, they could relicense – regardless of whether it is GPL or not.

    I honestly cannot believe that this is “news” to anyone, it’s so fundamental.

    FWIW, since Mono is LGPL and MIT/X11 licensed – if Microsoft were to buy Novell (or even if they don’t), you could fork Mono and relicense GPLv3 because neither license has any restriction against doing so.

DecorWhat Else is New

  1. [Meme] [Teaser] Miguel de Icaza on CEO of Microsoft GitHub

    Our ongoing series, which is very long, will shed much-needed light on GitHub and its goals (the dark side is a lot darker than people care to realise)

  2. Gemini Protocol and Gemini Space Are Not a Niche; for Techrights, Gemini Means Half a Million Page Requests a Month

    Techrights on gemini:// has become very big and we’ll soon regenerate all the pages (about 37,500 of them) to improve clarity, consistency, and general integrity

  3. 'Satellite States' of EPO Autocrats

    Today we look more closely at how Baltic states were rendered 'voting fodder' by large European states, looking to rubber-stamp new and oppressive measures which disempower the masses

  4. [Meme] Don't Mention 'Brexit' to Team UPC

    It seems perfectly clear that UPC cannot start, contrary to what the EPO‘s António Campinos told the Council last week (lying, as usual) and what the EPO insinuates in Twitter; in fact, a legal challenge to this should be almost trivial

  5. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part IXX: The Baltic States

    How unlawful EPO rules were unsurprisingly supported by Benoît Battistelli‘s friends in Baltic states; António Campinos maintained those same unlawful rules and Baltic connections, in effect liaising with offices known for their corruption (convicted officials, too; they did not have diplomatic immunity, unlike Battistelli and Campinos)

  6. Links 21/10/2021: GIMP 2.99.8 Released, Hardware Shortages, Mozilla Crisis

    Links for the day

  7. How Oppressive Governments and Web Monopolists Might Try to Discourage Adoption of Internet Protocols Like Gemini

    Popular movements and even some courageous publications have long been subverted by demonisation tactics, splits along unrelated grounds (such as controversial politics) and — failing that — technical sabotage and censorship; one must familiarise oneself with commonly-recurring themes of social control by altercation

  8. [Meme] Strike Triangulations, Reception Issues

    Financial strangulations for Benoît Battistelli‘s unlawful “Strike Regulations”? The EPO will come to regret 2013…

  9. [Meme] Is Saying “No!” to Unlawful Proposals Considered “Impolite”?

    A ‘toxic mix’ of enablers and cowards (who won’t vote negatively on EPO proposals which they know to be unlawful) can serve to show that the EPO isn’t a “social democracy” as Benoît Battistelli liked to call it; it’s just a dictatorship, currently run by the son of a person who actually fought dictatorship

  10. IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, October 20, 2021

    IRC logs for Wednesday, October 20, 2021

  11. [Meme] EPO Legal Sophistry and Double Dipping

    An imaginary EPO intercept of Administrative Council discussions in June 2013...

  12. Links 21/10/2021: PostgreSQL JDBC 42.3.0 and Maui Report

    Links for the day

  13. [Meme] [Teaser] “Judge a Person Both by His Friends and Enemies”

    Fervent supporters of Team Battistelli or Team Campinos (a dark EPO era) are showing their allegiances; WIPO and EPO have abused staff similarly over the past decade or so

  14. 'Cluster-Voting' in the European Patent Office/Organisation (When a Country With 1.9 Million Citizens Has the Same Voting Power as a Country With 83.1 Million Citizens)

    Today we examine who has been running the Finnish patent office and has moreover voted in the EPO during the ballot on unlawful "Strike Regulations"; they voted in favour of manifestly illegal rules and for 8.5 years after that (including last Wednesday) they continued to back a shady regime which undermines the EPO's mission statement

  15. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XVIII: Helsinki's Accord

    The Finnish outpost has long been strategic to the EPO because it can help control the vote of four or more nations; evidence suggests this has not changed

  16. [Meme] Living as a Human Resource, Working for Despots

    The EPO has become a truly awful place/employer to work for; salary is 2,000 euros for some (despite workplace stress, sometimes relocation to a foreign country)

  17. Links 20/10/2021: New Redcore Linux and Hospital Adoption of GNU Health

    Links for the day

  18. IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, October 19, 2021

    IRC logs for Tuesday, October 19, 2021

  19. Links 19/10/2021: Karanbir Singh Leaves CentOS Board, GPL Violations at Vizio

    Links for the day

  20. [Meme] Giving the Knee

    The 'knee' champion Kratochvìl and 'kneel' champion Erlingsdóttir are simply crushing the law; they’re ignoring the trouble of EPO staff and abuses of the Office, facilitated by the Council itself (i.e. facilitated by themselves)

  21. Josef Kratochvìl Rewarded Again for Covering Up EPO Corruption and the EPO Bribes the Press for Lies Whilst Also Lying About Its Colossal Privacy Violations

    Corrupt officials and officials who actively enable the crimes still control the Office and also the body which was supposed to oversee it; it's pretty evident and clear judging by this week's press statements at the EPO's official Web site

  22. [Meme] Sorry, Wrong Country (Or: Slovenia isn't Great Britain)

    Team UPC is trying to go ahead with a total hoax which a high-level European court would certainly put an end to (if or when a referral is initiated)

  23. How Denmark, Iceland, Finland, Norway and Sweden Voted on Patently Unlawful Regulations at the EPO

    We look back and examine what happened 8 years ago when oppressed staff was subjected to unlawful new “regulations” (long enjoyed by António Campinos, the current EPO autocrat)

  24. The EPO’s Overseer/Overseen Collusion — Part XVII: The Non-Monolithic Nordic Bloc

    We start our investigation of how countries in northern Europe ended up voting on the unlawful “Strike Regulations” at the EPO and why

  25. Proof That Windows “11” is a Hoax

    Guest post by Ryan, reprinted with permission

  26. Firefox Becomes as Morally Reprehensible as Apple, Facebook, or Uber

    Guest post by Ryan, reprinted with permission

  27. Links 19/10/2021: GNU dbm 1.22 and Godot 3.4 RC 1

    Links for the day

  28. [Meme] [Teaser] GitHub an Expensive and Dangerous Trap (Also: Misogyny Hub)

    The ongoing Microsoft GitHub exposé will give people compelling reasons to avoid GitHub, which is basically just a subsidised (at a loss) trap

  29. Norway Should Have Voted Against Benoît Battistelli's Illegal (Anti-)'Strike Regulations' at the European Patent Office

    Benoît Battistelli‘s EPO faced no real and potent opposition from Norwegian delegates, who chose to abstain from the vote on the notorious and illegal so-called ‘Strike Regulations’ (they’re just an attack on strikes, an assault on basic rights of labourers)

  30. Links 19/10/2021: Sequoia PGP LGPL 2.0+, Open RAN Adoption

    Links for the day

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts